OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF THE STATE OF ALABAMA May 21st, 1901, To September 3rd, 1901. JOHN B. KNOX, Esq., President FRANK N. JULIAN, Esq., Secretary. PAT McGAULY, Esq., Official Stenographer. Volume I WETUMPKA PRINTING CO., Printers and Publishers Wetunipka, Ala. 1940 OFFICIAL PROCEIDINeS of fcho CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION of the STATE OF ALABAA^A May 2 lsl, 1901 , To September 3rd, 1901 FIRST DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Tuesday, May 21, 1901. Hon. Thomas N. McQellan, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama, as directed by the Enabling Act, called the Convention to order promptly at the noon hour, and appointed the Secretary of State, Hon. Robert P. McDavid, to act as Secretary of the Temporary organization. Hon. Thomas N. McClellan—This is the time and place for the assembling of delegates who have been elected by the people of Alabama to revise and amend the Constitution. The Enabling Statute confers the honor, and imposes the duty on the Chief Jus¬ tice of the State of Alabama to initiate the organization of this Constitutional Convention. The Act provides that the Chief Jus¬ tice of the Supreme Court, or, during his absence, one of the Asso¬ ciate Justices of the Supreme Court, shall call the Convention to order and preside until the temporary officers are elected. It is in the discharge of that duty that I am here. Having in mind that possibly all the delegates would not haye their certificate of tion, I have the certificate of the Secretary of State to the roll of delegates elected by the people to this Constitutional Convention under the Great Seal of the State. I will call the names upon this roll, aiid as the names are called,, the delegates will please come forward and enroll themselves oh, the book, which has been provided by the Secretary of State. 4 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 'Upon the roll being* called, the following delegates came for¬ ward and subscribed their names: Aimon, D. C, Altman, W. A. Ashcraft, John T, Banks, William H. Barefteld, J. H. Bartlett, W. H. Beavers, J. Robert. Beddow, C. P. Bethune, D. S. Blackwell, Samuel Boone, B. Boykin, Brooks, Leslie E. Browne, Cecil, Bulger, Thomas L. Burnett, John D. Burns, John F. Byars, John A. Cardon, H. W. ♦ Carmichael, A. H. Carmichael, M. S. Carnathan, G. H. Case, D. C. Chapman, Reuben, Cobb, James E. Cofer, W. T. L. Coleman, E. W. Coleman, i'homas W. Cornwell, Thomas J. Craig, B. H. Cunningham, R. M. Davis, Hubert T. Davis, John A. Dent, S. H. deGraffenreid, Edward Duke, J. B. Eley, B. T. Eyster, John C. Espy, T. M. Ferguson, Charles W. Fitts, William C. Fletcher, A. S. Foshee, J. M. Foster, J. M. Freeman, Newman H. Gilmore, John A. Glover, W. F. Graham, Edward A. Graham, Jos. B. Grant, L. W. Grayson, John W. Greer, Charles H. Greer, L. F. Haley, C. L. Handley, William A. Harrison, George P. I Heflin, John T. ^ Heflin, J. Thomas, Henderson, J. C. Henson, Evans, Hodges, P. W. Hood, O. R. Howell, W. P. Howze, A. C. Inge, W. B. Jackson, E. C. Jenkins, Samuel C. Jones, John C. Jones, James McLean, Jones, Richard C. Jones, Thomas G. King, John T. Kirk, James T. Kirkland, W. W, Knight, Wm. N. Knox, John B. Kyle, R. B. Ledbetter, E. W. Leigh, Norville, R., Jr. Locklin, Lawrence W. Lomax, Tennent, Long, J. Lee, W. Long, T. L. Lowe, Robert J. Lowe, W. T. Macdonald, Gordon, McMillan, Lee, McMillan, B. F. Malone, George H, Martin, J, T. Maxwell, J. C. Merrill, A. H. Miller, Charles H. Miller, Jos. N. Moody, Milo, Morrissette, E. R. Mulkey, W. O. Murphree, Joel D. Nesmith, C. C. Norman, J. D. Norwood, Jos. Oates, William C. O’Neal, Emmett, O’Neill, John W. Opp, Henry, O’Rear, Rufus A. Palmer, Dabney, Parker, George H. Parker, John H. Pearce, James P. Pettus, Erie, Phillips, E. A. Pillans, Harry, Pitts, P. H. Porter, John H. Proctor, John F. Reese, Henry Fontaine, Renfro, N. P. Reynolds, Lewis H. Reynolds, R. I. Robinson, J. J. Rogers, C. J., Sr. Rogers, John A. Samford,‘Wm. H. Sanders, W. T. Sanford, John W. A. Searcy, Geo. A. Selheimer, Henry C. Sentell, J. O. Sloan, J. B. Smith, Gregory L. Smith, MacA. Smith, Morgan M. Sollie, Michael, Sorrell, Geo. A. Spears, N. B. Spragins, Robert E. Stewart, J, H. Studdard, S. L. Tayloe, W. H. Thompson, J. F. Vaughan, Watkins M. Waddell, Boswell, deG. Walker, Richard Ww Watts, Thomas H. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 S Weakley, John B. Weatherly, Janies, White, Frank S. Whiteside, W. W. Willett, E. D. Williams, A. E. Williams, Gesnard, Winn, James J. Williams, Jere N. Wilson, E. P. Wilson, Massey, CHIEF JUSTICE McCLELLAN—The whole number of dele¬ gates, one hundred and fifty-five, having appeared and signed the roll. I will now administer the oath of office. The delegates will please rise to their feet. Do you, and each of you, solemnly swear that you will support the Constitution of the United States, and that you will honestly and faithfully perform the duties which are now to devolve on you as delegates of this Convention, so help you God. MR. HARRISON—In view of the fact that this body is com¬ posed largely of Democrats, and that the caucus of the Democratic party desires to convene this afternoon, to determine the officers of this Convention, I move we do now adjourn until 11 o’clock to¬ morrow morning. The motion was adopted, and thereupon the Convention ad¬ journed. SECOND DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Wednesday, May 22, 1901. At 11 o’clock a. m. the Convention was called to order by Chief Justice McClellan in the following words; “Gentlemen, please be seated. The proceedings will be opened with prayer by the Rev. Dr. Patterson.” Dr. Patterson said: “Oh, Lord, God, our Heavenly Father; Thou who art the Maker of heaven and earth, and who doest Thy will among the armies of heaven and amongst the inhabitants of the earth, unto Thee we come this morning with prayer to Thee for guidance, for strength and for wisdom and for blessing. We acknowledge that Thou art King and Lord; that in Thy hands are the destinies of nations, and that Thou takest into Thy care the thoughts of the people; and we praise and bless Thee that Thou has assured us Thy interest and care over us is constant, and that Thou art more willing that souls should be blessed than we are willing even to receive blessings at Thy hands. We pray Thee, Heavenly Father, that Thou wilt cause Thy face to shine upon these Thy servants, who are met together from different parts of this State to engage in this undertaking which is before them, and we ask that Thou will give to them wisdom; that Thou will give to them clearness of mind, and especially that Thou 6 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS will give to them a sense of the responsibility resting upon them, and as they day by day meet for consultation and deliberation, may their minds and hearts, be so guided and controlled by Thy Holy Spirit as that the result of their labors will be of benefit to all the inhabitants and citizens of this State. We pray that Thou wilt restrain them from any unwise proceedings; that Thou wilt uphold them in all undertakings which are for the interest of the people, and that Thou wilt sustain all of their efforts to Thy name’s honor and glory, and to Thee we shall give the praise, world without end . Amen.” The roll was here called. CHIEF JUSTICE McCLELLAN—One hundred and fifty delegates have answered to their names. The business before the Convention this morning is the election of a temporary or perma¬ nent president as the Convention may desire. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. Chairman, as suggested by the Chair, I move that we proceed to a permanent organization at once, by the election of a permanent President of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Alabama; and I would put in nomination the name of the Honorable John B. Knox of Calhoun County. Mr. Chairman, as there seems to be no opposition, I would move further that he be elected by acclamation, if I can secure a second. MR. SANFORD (Montgomery)—I second the motion, Mr. Chairman. CHIEF JUSTICE McCLELLAN—It is moved and seconded that the Convention proceed to the election of a permanent Presi¬ dent, Mr. John B. Knox being put in nomination, the further mo¬ tion is made that he be elected by acclamation. The question was put and the Hon. John B. Knox was unani¬ mously elected President of the Constitutional Convention. THOMAS W. COLEMAN of Greene—Mr. Chairman, I move the appointment of a committee of three to notify Mr. Knox of his election. The motion being duly seconded, was put and carried. The Chairman appointed Hon. Thomas W. Coleman of Greene, Hon. William C. Oates of Montgomery, and Hon. Tennent Lomax of Montgomery to notify Mr. Knox of his election. The committee escorted the newly-elected President to the Chair. CHIEF JUSTICE McCLELLAN—Gentlemen of the Conven¬ tion, I have the honor and pleasure of presenting to you the gen- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 7 tleman whom you have elected to preside over your deliberations, the Honorable John B. Knox of Calhoun County. MR. KNOX—Gentlemen of the Convention: I thank you for the high honor you have conferred in electing me to preside over the deliberations of this Convention. Viewed from the standpoint of my profession, to which, up to this moment, my life’s work has been devoted, it is a great honor, indeed; for I know of no higher honor that can be conferred upon a lawyer than to be made President of the Constitutional Convention, which represents the sovereignty of his people; and numbers among its delegates, in large part, the intellect and talent of the State—those who have in the past, and will in the future exert a potent influence in shaping and directing the affairs of the State. IMPORTANCE OF THE ISSUE In my judgment, the people of Alabama have been called upon to face no more important situation than now confronts us, unless it be when they, in 1861, stirred by the momentous issue of im¬ pending conflict between the North and the South, were forced to decide whether they would remain in or withdraw from the Union. Then, as now, the negro was the prominent factor in the issue. The Southern people, with this grave problem of the races to deal with, are face to face with a new epoch in Constitution-making, the difficulties of which are great, but which, if solved wisely, may bring rest and peace and happiness. If otherwise, it may leave us and our posterity continuously involved in race conflict, or what may be worse, subjected permanently to the baneful influences of the political conditions now prevailing in the State. So long as the negro remains in insignificant minority, and votes the Republican ticket, our friends in the North tolerate him with complacency, but there is not a Northern State, and I might go further and say, there is not an intelligent white man in the North, not gangrened by sectional prejudice and hatred of the South who would consent for a single day to submit to negro rule. If the negroes of the South should move in such numbers to the State of Massachusetts, or any other Northern State, as would enable them to elect the officers, levy the taxes, and control the government and policy of that State, I doubt not they would be met, in spirit, as the negro laborers from the South were met at the State line of Illinois, with bayonets, led by a Republican Gov¬ ernor, and firmly but emphatically informed that no quarter would be shown them in that territory. One has studied the history of recent events to very little pur¬ pose who has failed to discover that race prejudice exists at the 8 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS North in as pronounced a form as at the South, and that the ques¬ tion of negro domination, when brought home, will arouse the same opposition in either section. And what is it that we want to do? Why it is within the limits imposed by the Federal Constitution, to establish white supremacy in this State. This is our problem, and we should be permitted to deal with it, unobstructed by outside influences, with a sense of our respon¬ sibilities as citizens and our duty to posterity. NORTHERN INTERFERENCE Some of our Northern friends have ever exhibited an unwonted interest in our affairs. It w’^as this interference on their part that provoked the most tremendous conflict of modern times; and there are not a few philanthopists in that section who are still uneasy lest we be permitted to govern ourselves and allowed to live up to the privileges of a free and sovereign people! Some of the same, in like missionary spirit, are greatly concerned about the condition of the Chinaman in China, but we do not find them appealing to Congress, or interfering with the local policy of California, a Northern State, for the protection of the Chinaman who is a resi¬ dent there, or making any attempt to interfere with the right of that people to govern themselves, and to provide for a pure admin¬ istration of government and for the protection of property. If it is the negro who is the object of their solicitude, it would seem—not to speak of Africa itself—they would find an inviting field in Cuba and in our new acquisitions of Hawaii, Porto Rico and the Phillippines. The disinclination they exhibit to enter this field only serves to confirm the well-grounded conviction in this section, that the point of their interference is not so much to elevate the black man as it is to humiliate the white man with whom they have been in antagonism. But we may congratulate ourselves that this sectional feeling which has served to impair the harmony of our common country, and to limit the power and retard the development of the greatest government on earth, is fast yielding to reason. While we may and do differ from him politically, there is not an enlightened and patriotic Southern man who fails to see that much of this result is due to the honorable and statesman-like policy of the present Chief Executive of these United States, who, by the consideration he has shown our section in many ways, no¬ tably in the Spanish-American war, and by refusing to lend his approval to any movement looking to the reduction of our repre¬ sentation in Congress or in the Electoral College, has shown himself capable of being President of the whole country and not merely one section of it and has been enabled to present the specta¬ cle of a re-united country, and contributed much to place our gov¬ ernment in the very front rank with the nations of the world. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 9 THE ATTITUDE OF THE SOUTHERN MAN TOWARDS THE NEGRO The Southern man knows the negro, and the neg^ro knows him. The only conflict which has, or is ever likely to arise, springs from the effort of ill-advised friends in the North to confer upon him, without previous training or preparation, places of power and responsibility, for which he is wholly unfitted, either by capacity or experience. When it comes, however, to dealing with the negro, in domestic service, or in a business way, the Southerner is infinitely more in¬ dulgent to him than his Northern compatriot. There came to us a well authenticated story from Kentucky, of an old darkey, who, after the war, influenced by the delusion that the only friends the negro had were in the North, wandered up into Illinois, hoping to find an easy fortune. But here he soon found that while the people had much to say to him about the evils of slavery, and the destiny of his race, every one with whom he did business held him to a strict accountability. Trained, as he was, to the slow movement of the mule in the Southern cornfield and the cotton patch, he could not handle the complicated machin¬ ery, or keep pace with the quicker methods of farming in the West, and so he was soon cast adrift. When he asked for help he was told to go to work, and so he wandered, foot-sore and weary, back through Indiana and Ohio until he reached again the old Southern plantation in Kentucky. Finding the planter comfortably seated upon his veranda, the old darkey approached, hat in hand, and asked for something to eat. ‘'Why, you damned black rascal, what are you stopping here for? Go into the kitchen and tell the cook to give you something to eat.’^ “Before God, Master,'’ the old darkey said, grinning from ear to ear, “them’s the sweetest words Tse heard since I left old Dixie.” The old man was home at last. He was among people who understood him, and whom he understood. WHITE SUPREMACY BY LAW But if we would have white supremacy, we must establish it by law—not by force or fraud. If you teach your boy that it is right to buy a vote, it is an easy step for him to learn to use money to bribe or corrupt officials or trustees of any class. If you teach your boy that it is right to steal votes, it is an easy step for him to believe that it is right to steal whatever he may need or greatly desire. The results of such an influence will enter every branch of society, it will reach your bank cashiers, and affect po¬ sitions of trust in every department; it will ultimately enter your courts, and affect the administrations of justice. 10 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I submit it to the intellijfent judgment of this Convention that there is no higher duty resting upon us, as citizens, and as dele¬ gates, than that which requires us to embody in the fundamental law such provisions as will enable us to protect the sanctity of the ballot in every portion of the State. The justification for whatever manipulation of the ballot that has occurred in this State has been the menace of negro domina¬ tion. After the war, by force of Federal bayonets, the negro was placed in control of every branch of our Government. Inspired and aided by unscrupulous white men, he wasted money, created debts, increased taxes until it threatened to amount to confiscation of our property. While in power, and within a few years, he in¬ creased our State debt from a nominal figure to nearly thirty million dollars. The right of revolution is always left to every people. Being prostrated by the effects of war, and unable to take up arms in their own defense, in some portions of this State, white men, greatly in the minority, it is said, resorted to strategem— used their greater intellect to overcome the greater number of their black opponents. If so such a course might be warranted when considered as the right of revolution, and as an act of necessity for self-preservation. But a people cannot always live in a state of revolution. The time comes, when, if they would be free, happy and contented people, they must return to a Constitutional form of government, where law and order prevail, and where every citi¬ zen stands ready to stake his life and his honor to maintain it. WHAT REMEDY SHALL BE ADOPTED Upon the threshold of our deliberations. I will not undertake to indicate to you how you should solve this new and difficult question of Constitutional reform. At the outset of this movement, I ventured to suggest that delegates should be cautious in under¬ taking to define just what provisions would be or should be em¬ bodied in the Constitution; that the new Constitution, when made and placed before the people for ratification, would be and ought to be the result of the united action of the Convention; that if one came here with his mind made up and his Constitution in his pocket, he would hardly be in a fit condition to confer with his fellow-delegates on this important subject. I still hold this view. I fail to appreciate the idea of those who seem to think it the duty of the delegates to this Convention to write out and publish their views before the Convention meets. Under this plan, we would be liable to have as many constitutions as delegates. What the people want, in my judgment, is an earnest consideration of and consultation upon these important questions, so that the finished work will represent the united wisdom and experience of the Con¬ vention. Mississippi is the pioneer State in this movement. In addition to the payment of a poll tax, there it is provided that only those CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 11 can vote who have been duly registered, and only those can regis¬ ter who can read, or understand when read to them, any clause in the Constitution. The decision as to who are sufficiently intelli¬ gent to meet the requirements of the understanding clause is ex¬ clusively in the hands of the registrars. • But to this plan, the objection has been urged with force that it perpetuates the very form of abuse which we are seeking to escape. Elections by managers or registrars is not what we want, our aim should be for a correction of all evils which threaten the purity of the ballot and the morals of the people. The provisions adopted in South Carolina require the pay¬ ment of the poll-tax assessed against him for the previous year six months before any election, and that the voter shall be duly registered. To be qualified for registration up to January 1st, 1898, voters must have been able to read a clause in the Constitu¬ tion or understand or explain it when read by the registration of¬ ficer; and all who register subsequent to that time must be able to both read and write any section of the Constitution, or else show ownership of property assessed at $300 or more, and the payment of all taxes assessed against him and collectable during the previous year. In Louisiana and North Carolina, the methods of relief adopt¬ ed are substantially the same, and require, in addition to the poll tax clause, that the voter shall register in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution, and only those are authorized to register who are able to read and write any section of the Consti¬ tution in the English language, with the further provision, that no male person who was, on January 1st, 1867, or at any time prior thereto, entitled to vote under the laws of any State in the United States, wherein he then resided, and no lineal descendant of any such person, shall be denied the right to register and vote at any election, by reason of his failure to possess the educational qualifications prescribed, provided he registers within the time limited by the terms of the Constitution, which, in Louisiana, is about six months, and in North Carolina, about eight years. It is contended in defense of this provision, that while, in ef¬ fect, it will exclude the great mass of ignorant negro voters it does not, in terms, exclude them, and applies generally to all classes of voters, without reference to their race, color or previous con¬ dition of servitude; that all negroes who were voters prior to January 1st, 1867, of whom, it is claimed, there were quite a num¬ ber, could vote, and the descendants, whether slaves or not, of these free negroes were entitled to vote, and that these were quite numerous. And on the other hand, that white people born in other countries—emigrants, who cannot read and write, could not vote, nor could white people who were unable to vote in the State in which they lived prior to 1867, unless they were able to read and write. If it be said that this exception permits many more white 12 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS people to vote than negroes, the answer was that this would be equally true of any proper qualifications which might be proposed. It would be true of an educational qualification, and it would be true of a property qualification, the validity of which has never been questioned. These provisions are justified in law and in morals, because it is said that the negro is not discriminated against on account of his race, but on account of his intellectual and moral condition. There is a difference, it is claimed with great force, between the uneducated white man and the ignorant negro. There is in the white man an inherited capacity for government, which is wholly wanting in the negro. Before the art of reading and writing was known, the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxon had established an or¬ derly system of government, the basis in fact of the one under which we now live. That the negro on the other hand, is descend¬ ed from a race lowest in intelligence and moral preceptitions of all the races of men. As was remarked by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Williams vs. Mississippi (170 U. S. 213), quoting the Supreme Court of Mississippi: “Restrained by the Federal Constitution from discriminating against the negro race, the Convention discriminates against its characteristics and the offense to which its criminal members are prone.” As stated by Judge Cooley, the right of suffrage is not a nat¬ ural right, because it exists where it is allowed to be exercised only for the good of the State—to say that those whose participation in the affairs of the State would endanger and imperil the good of the State have nevertheless, the right to participate, is not only folly in itself, but it is to set the individual above the State. THE RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE IN MASSACHUSETTS The election laws in Massachusetts contain substantially the same provisions as are embodied in the Constitutions of Louisiana and North Carolina just referred to. The election law of that State, as it stands today, provides that the voter must be able to read the Constitution of the Commonwealth in the English lan¬ guage, and to write his name, except that “no person who is pre¬ vented from reading and writing as aforesaid, by physical dis¬ ability, or who had the right to vote on the first day of May in the year 1857, shall, if otherwise qualified, be deprived of the right to vote by reason of not being able so to read or write.” While it is true that the provisions of this law do not extend to the descendants of the voter, yet it does not seem that on that account the principle involved would be affected. The exception in the Massachusetts law was, no doubt, di¬ rected against illiterate and incompetent immigrants, whereas the provisions in the Constitutions of Louisiana and North Carolina CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 13 were directed against illiterate and incompetent negroes, as well as foreigners. But it is beyond the province of courts, it is claimed, to in¬ quire into the motives of the law-making power; their function is confined to ascertaining the meaning and effect of the law drawn in question. These views have been elaborated and ably defended by Mr. Semmes of Louisiana, and by Mr. Rountree and Senator Simmons of North Carolina, from whose able arguments I have greatly profited. They find strong support in the opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States, in the Mississippi case, where it is said: “If weakness were to be taken advantage of, it was to be done within the field of permissible action, under the limitations im¬ posed by the Federal Constitution, and the means of it were the alleged characteristics of the negro race, not the administration of the law by officers of the State. Besides, the operation of the Constitution and laws is not limited by their language or effect to one race.”—Williams vs. Mississippi, 170 U. S. III. In Van Valkenberg vs. Brown, (13 Am. Rpts., 142), speaking of the limitation imposed upon the State by the recent amend¬ ments to the Federal Constitution, the Supreme Court of Cali¬ fornia says: “The mere power of the State to determine the class of inhabitants who may vote within her limits was not curtailed by the Fourteenth Amendment. The Fifteenth Amendment took away her power to discriminate against citizens of the United States on account of either race, color or previous condition of servitude, but the power of exclusion upon all other grounds re¬ main intact. Practically to the same effect is the decision of the United States Supreme Court in the case of Minor vs. Happersett. 21 Wall. 162. The principle of inherited capacity is recognized even by the inspired Apostle, for you remember that Paul, in his epistle to Timothy, whom he was preparing to preach the glorious Gospel, refers to it even in the matter of faith, for he says: “I am per¬ suaded that the^nfeigned faith which dwelt in they grandmother Lois and in they mother Eunice dwells also in thee.” The great work before this Convention will be to study and carefully consider this question. It is for this purpose that so many of the wise and conservative men of the State, including many of the ablest representatives of the bar, have been asked, for the time, to lay aside their business and the duties of an ex¬ acting profession, and consecrate to the service of the State all the talent, experience and ability they possess. I am not pre¬ pared to say whether or not this Convention will approve the form of relief which has been adopted in our sister States but I feet 14 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS confident that there is intelligence and ability enough here to set¬ tle this question to the satisfaction of our people. We have in¬ augurated the movement and we must succeed. It is not to be expected that a reform movement like this will meet with universal approval, but when your finished work is submitted, and you pre¬ sent, as I believe you will, a practical solution of the evil condi¬ tions under which we now live, it will be appreciated and accept¬ ed by our people. AUTHORITY TO FUND THE STATE DEBT There are other questions which might be considered, but to which I shall be able to give only a passing notice. In view of the fact that a large part of the State’s bonded indebtedness will soon mature, it is important and necessary that some provision should be made for funding the indebtedness of the State. Very able lawyers have doubted if there be any authority in the State, un¬ der the present Constitution to fund the State’s indebtedness. At the time of the adoption of the present Constitution the creation of debt on the part of the State, county and municipal authorities, had been abused to such an extent as to cause great alarm, and so the framers of the present Constitution, in their anxiety to curtail this evil, seem not to have provided as fully as might be for the payment or the funding of the State’s indebtedness by the issuance of new bonds or obligations. The provision of the pres¬ ent Constitution on this subject is as follows: “After the ratification of this Constitution, no new debts shall be created against or incurred by this State or its authority, except to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, and then only by a concurrence of two-thirds of the members of each House of the General Assembly, and the vote shall be taken by yeas and nays and entered on the journal; and any act creating or incurring any new debt against this State, except as herein provided for, shall be absolutely void; provided, the Governor may be authorized to negotiate temporary loans never to exceed $100,000, to meet deficiencies in the Treasury; and until the same is paid, no new loan shall be negotiated; provided, further, that this section shall not be construed as to prevent the issuance of bonds in adjust¬ ment of existing State indebtedness.’’ The power to settle the State’s then existing indebtedness has been exercised .under the debt settlement acts, and a doubt has been raised whether, under the restrictive terms of the present Constitution, there be any power to issue new bonds to pay or fund the debt at its maturity. There can be no doubt but that the State debt, under present conditions, can be funded at a greatly reduced rate of interest, and at such a rate as will save the State largely more than the cost of the holding of this Convention. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 15 MUNICIPAL AND COUNTY INDEBTEDNESS Then again, there is the question of the authority of county and municipal governments to create debts totally beyond the resources which must be looked to to provide payment. The framers of the present Constitution carefully stipulated a maxi* mum rate of taxation, but made no provision against the creation of debt over and beyond the resources of the county or munici¬ pality. Consequently, improvident and unscrupulous officers have been able to impair the credit and fasten a load of debt upon cities and counties in different portions of the State, which has involved many of them in litigation and bankruptcy. Some just provision should be incorporated, limiting the power to create debt beyond the reasonable ability of the county or municipality to pay. EDUCATION Then, again, there is the great question of education, which so vitally touches the interests of our people. I believe we should keep faithfully the pledges we have given not to increase taxation, but this should not deter us from making every effort to rid our State of the disgrace of its illiteracy. As Dr. Curry forcibly puts it, it will not do to say you are too poor to educate the people— you are too poor not to educate them. Nothing has so retarded the rapid growth and development of our State as the absence of a well regulated system of public schools, so as to place within the reach of every child in the State, both rich and poor, the means of obtaining Tree of tuition fees, such instruction as will qualify him for the responsible duties of life. The productive power of labor in Massachusetts is said to be nearly double that of the average for each inhabitant of the whole United States, and the reason assigned is the superior educational advantages she furnishes to her people. You cannot expect skilled labor to enter our State, if by doing so their children are to be denied the means of a common school education. We must fight ignorance as we would fight malaria, for it is only by educating its people that a State can gain and maintain a proud position among the nations of the earth. It has been urged in some quarters as a reason why this movement for a new Constitution should be defeated that we propose to adopt a suffrage plan which will offer to the negro an incentive to obtain an education, while the child of the white man will be without a like stimulus, because protected in his right to vote without regard to the density of his ignorance. I do not understand that any delegate to the Convention is pledged to any such legislation. We are pledged, “not to deprive any white man of the right to vote,” but this does not extend un¬ less this Convention chooses to extend it beyond the right of 16 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS voters now living. It is a question worthy of careful considera¬ tion, whether we would be warranted in pursuing any course which would have a tendency to condemn any part of our population to a condition of perpetual illiteracy. Provisions of the Constitution prescribing educational qualifications for voters as they affect those who now have no right to vote but in the course of time will acquire the right are wisely intended to serve not as a curse, but as a noble stimulus to the acquirement of an education and to a proper preparation for meeting and discharging the duties of a citizen. There is a strong reason why those who have fought the bat¬ tles of the State—those who have been trained in the duties of citizenship, and possess character, judgment and intelligence which enables them to appreciate the responsibility it imposes, should not be denied the right to vote, even though they may lack the elements of an education, but it does not follow that it is to the interest of the State that the indulgence should be extended to the second generation—especially so whep learning to read and write are within reach and so easy to obtain! The States of Mississippi, South Carolina aad Louisiana, in dealing with this great question, have rightfully considered that the betterment of facilities for securing an education for all the people was a necessary and essential part of any just and wise scheme for the regulation of the right of suffrage, and for the purification of the ballot. There are other matters of importance I might refer to, but I have already continued much longer than was intended. Your work is before you. The responsibilities it imposes are great, but I do not doubt that you will discharge them with courage and with fidelity. In my judgment it is better, far better, to have ac¬ complished something for the permanent and everlasting good of your people than to possess any honor which the State can confer. Abou Ben Adhem awakened from a dream, found an angel, writing in a book of gold the name of those whom love of God has blessed. “And is mine there?” he asked. But the angel an¬ swered, “Nay.” “I pray thee, then,” he said, “write me as one who loves his fellow men.” The angel wrote and vanished. The next night it came again, with a great awakening light, and showed the names whom love of God had blessed. And lo! Ben Adhem’s name led all the rest.” THE PRESIDENT—^The next business before the Conven¬ tion will be the election of a Secretary. ■ MR. BROOKS—Mr. President, before proceedings to the election of a Secretary, I desire to submit a motion that the re¬ marks of the Chair be spread upon the minutes, or on the journal. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 17 in order that they may find a permanent place among; the records of this Convention. The motion being seconded, was put by Mr. Brooks and unan¬ imously carried. MR. ROBINSON—The Rnabling Act does not provide for the subordinate officers of the Convention; therefore there will have to be some resolution creating those officers of this Con¬ vention. MR. BULGER—Mr. President, I desire to offer a resolution. The resolution was read by the Secretary: Resolved, That the President appoint a committee, consist¬ ing of nine members, to be known and designated as a Committee on Rules, of which committee the President of the Convention shall be chairman. MR. BULGER—I move the adoption of the resolution. The motion was seconded. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I would like to amend that by saying two from each Congressional District. I do not think that two from each Congressional District will be too many, I move that as a substitute, or I would like to amend the motion with the gentleman's consent, so as to read that two shall be appointed from each Congressional District instead of one. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I desire to offer a substitute resolution. MR. LOMAX—I rise to a point of order. I submit that this Convention should complete its permanent organization before it proceeds to the consideration of any resolutions whatsoever. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the point of order is well taken. MR. WEAKLEY—I desire to nominate for Secretary of this Convention Mr. Frank N. Julian of Colbert. THE PRESIDENT—Mr. Colbert's Name is placed in nomi¬ nation. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I rise to a point of order. The act does not provide for a secretary. It says secretary or clerk, and I think that any nomination for any office will be out of order until this Convention determines what subordinate officers it shall have. MR. ASHCRAFT—I desire to offer a resolution. The resolution was read by the Secretary: 18 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolved. That this Convention proceed with its further or¬ ganization by the election of the following officers in the order named: Secretary, Assistant Secretary, Door Keeper, Assistant Door Keeper. MR. SANFORD—I move to amend that resolution by adding Sergeant-at-arms. MR. ASHCRAFT—This resolution, Mr. President, is in con¬ formity with the action of the Democratic caucus of last night, and I therefore move it adoption. The motion was seconded and the resolution unanimously adopted as read. MR. WEAKLEY—I now nominate Mr. Frank N. Julian of Colbert for Secretary of this Convention. THE PRESIDENT—The name of Mr. Frank N. Julian has been placed in nomination. Are there any other nominations? MR. WEAKLY—move that Mr. Julian be elected by ac¬ clamation. MR. WATTS—I rise to a point of order. The present Con¬ stitution requires that all elections by those acting in a repre¬ sentative capacity shall be by viva voce vote. THE. ERESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair that does not apply here. I overrule the point of order. The question is upon the adoption of the motion to elect Mr. Julian by acclamation. The question was put and carried unanimously and Mr. Frank N. Julian of Colbert declared elected Secretary of the Convention. MR. LOMAX—For the office of Assistant Secretary of the Convention I place in nomination the name of Mr. W. F. Herbert of Montgomery. THE PRESIDENT—The name of W. F. Herbert of Mont¬ gomery is placed in nomination for the office of Assistant Secre¬ tary, Are there any other nominations? MR. LOMAX—I move that Mr. Herbert be elected by accla¬ mation. The motion was seconded and carried unanimously, and Mr. Herbert declared elected Assistant Secretary of the Convention. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I desire to place in nomination Robert Hasson of Calhoun for Door Keeper, and move that he be elected by acclamation. THE PRESIDENT —Mr. Hasson of Calhoun is placed in nomination for the office of doorkeeper. It is moved that he be elected by acclamation. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 19 The motion was carried unanimously. MR. SOLLIE—I place in nomination for the office of As¬ sistant Door Keeper Mr. Thomas J. Fain of Dale, and move that he be elected by acclamation. The motion was seconded. THE PRESIDENT—The name of Mr. Thomas Fain has been placed in nomination for Assistant Door Keeper, and it is moved that he be elected by acclamation. The motion was carried unanimously. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I have a resolution to offer. The resolution was read by the Secretary: Resolved. That the President appoint a committee on Rules, of nine members of which the President shall be the Chairman, to report the number of subordinate officers, manner of their selec¬ tion, and their duties, the various standingf committees, the order of business and the rules for the g^overnment of this Convention, and, until such rules are reported and adopted, the rules of the last House of Representatives, as far as applicable, shall govern. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I move the adoption of the resolution. Seconded. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move to strike out the last part of the resolution. We do not know what the rules of the House of Representatives are. They will get us in a tangle, and this committee will report in a day, and I think it will be better for the Convention to be governed by general parliamentary law, instead of the metTiod proposed by the resolution. MR. SMITH—I accept the motion to strike out the last por¬ tion of the resolution. THE PRESIDENT—Those in favor of the adoption of the resolution as offered by the gentleman of Mobile as amended, will please say aye. The resolution was adopted unanimously. MR. BROWNE—I desire to offer a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution: Resolved. That until the report of the Committee on Rules, all resolutions shall be referred without debate to proper commit¬ tees when raised. MR. BROWNE — Mr. President, there will be some minor resolutions and motions which will be necessary to be passed without being referred. But, in every such instance the party making the motion of offering the resolution, can move to suspend 20 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the rules and pass the resolution at once, such as a resolution pro¬ viding for the seating of members, etc. I therefore move the adop¬ tion of the resolution. Motion seconded, and carried unanimously. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Mr. President, I move that a committee of nine, one from each Congressional District, be ap¬ pointed on the arrangement of seats, and the seating of the dele¬ gates. THE PRESIDENT—It is moved that a committee of one from each Congressional District be appointed for seating the delegates. MR. BLACKWELL—I move as a substitute the following resolution in regard to seating. The Secretary read the resolution: Resolved. That in order to equitably assign the delegates seats in this Convention, that the names of all delegates be placed in a hat, and that one of the pages be blindfolded and draw out one at a time the names from the hat, and that the Secretary im¬ mediately read the name so drawn, and that the party whose name is read at once select his seat, and after all seats are so drawn, delegates shall have the right to exchange seats, if they so desire. The motion was seconded. A vote being taken, the substitute was adopted unanimously. PRESIDENT—^The question is now on the adoption of the original proposition as amended by the adoption of the substitute. Those in favor of the adoption of the original resolution as amend¬ ed will say aye— MR. BROWNE—I rise to a point of order. That resolution cannot be put, except on a suspension of the rules. There has been a rule just adopted that all resolutions— THE PRESIDENT—^The point of order is too late. Those opposed say no. The ayes have it, and the resolution is adopted. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I move that this Convention adjourn until tomorrow morning at 11 o’clock. Seconded. MR. OATES—I will ask the gentleman from Mobile to with¬ draw the motion for a moment. MR. SMITH—I withdraw the motion for a moment. MR, SANFORD—I desire to offer a resolution, that the Con¬ vention will entertain no motion— CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 21 THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Mobile with¬ draw his motion to adjourn? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I understood it was to swear in the officers and not for the purpose of considering’ further resolutions that the request was made. MR. OATES—I think if the gentleman hears the resolution he would have no objection. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman withdraw his mo¬ tion to adjourn? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—No, sir. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Mobile declines to withdraw his motion. The gentleman from Montgomery is out of order. The motion to adjourn was put, and declared lost. MR. OATES—I now offer a resolution. The resolution was read by the Secretary. Resolved. That a special committee of nine members be ap¬ pointed by the Chair to take into consideration the advisability of contracting with an expert stenographer to report the proceedings of this Convention in full, and the necessary cost thereof and report the same to the Convention at the beginning of tomorrow’s session. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the motion offered by the gentleman from Montgomery. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I rise to a point of order. This will have to be referred to a committee. THE PRESIDENT—^The points of order is well taken. MR. SANFORD—I offer this resolution in order to avoid an accumulation of a mass of papers that may be lost on the Secre¬ tary’s desk: Resolved. That the Convention will entertain no motion,^ resolution or ordinance having for its object the revision or amend¬ ment of the Constitution until the committees are appointed by the President. Seconded. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the resolution offered by the gentleman from Montgomery. A DELEGATE—^A point of order. It goes to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—I sustain the point. 22 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. OATES—Mr. President the ffentleman will certainly see the importance of immediate action on the resolution I offered, if it is going to be favorably acted upon at all. Therefore, I move to suspend the rules, and act upon that resolution at once. THE PRESIDENT—It is moved by the gentleman from Montgomery that the rules be suspended and that action be taken upon his resolution at once, without reference to the Committee on Rules. MR. BULGER—I ask the reading of the resolution. The resolution was read by the Secretary: Resolved. That a special committee of nine members be appointed by the Chair to take into consideration the advisability of contracting with an expert stenographer to report the proceed¬ ings of this Convention in full, and the necessary cost thereof, and report the same to the Convention at the beginning of tomorrow’s session. THE PRESIDENT—The question will be upon the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery to suspend the rules and put the resolution on its immediate passage, MR. BULGER—It looks to me, Mr. President, that this is the resolution of all the resolutions offered here, that should be well considered by the Committee on Rules. It seems to me that that resolution should not go— MR. WHITE—I make the point of order, Mr. President, that a motion to suspend the rules is not debatable. THE PRESIDENT—The point is well taken. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery to suspend the rules— MR. LONG (Walker)—I wish to give notice that I will move to reconsider the motion at the next session of this Convention, offered by the gentleman from Morgan, (Mr. Blackwell.) I shall do so because it makes a gamble out of these seats; it ig¬ nores old Democrats that have been in the service of the party for years, and it gives Populists and Republicans a chance to take any seat in this House. I shall move to reconsider that at the next meeting. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery to suspend the rules, and place on passage the resolution that has been read in your hearing. MR. BULGER—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. What vote does it require to suspend the rules of this Convention? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 23 THE PRESIDENT—The chair would rule that it requires a two-thirds vote. MR. LOMAX—We are acting under general parliamentary law. THE PRESIDENT—There is a conflict in the authorities. Mr. Cussing seems to hold that it requires unanimous consent, but the other authorities hold that it requires a two-thirds vote. I think the general practice is to require a two-thirds vote. The question being put, a division was called for, and result¬ ed, yeas, 98; nays, 18. So the motion was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The question will be on the adoption of the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery. Those in favor of the adoption of this resolution will please say aye. The motion was carried unanimously. MR.. EYSTER—I move, before proceeding any further, that the officers elected by this Convention be now sworn in. The motion was seconded and carried unanimously. MR. BROOKS—I desire to call attention to the fact that the journal of yesterday has not been read. It should be read or a motion made to dispense with the reading. THE CHAIR—The journal will be read immediately after the officers are sworn in. The officers were here sworn in. MR. BROWNE—I move that we dispense with the reading of the journal of yesterday. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—It is very short. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to dis¬ pense with the reading of the journal of yesterday. MR. REESE—I rise to an inquiry. Is it not necessary that the President of this Convention should be sworn in as President of the Convention in addition to have been sworn in as a member? THE PRESIDENT—I have not examined the provisions of the act, but I should think not. Unless the gentletnan calls my attention to some provision in the act requiring it, I would rule that it is not necessary. MR. REESE—My information is that it was done in the last Convention. 24 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SAlNFORD—I rise to a point of information. It is ruled that all resolutions should be submitted to the Committee on Rules; the rules have been suspended; now do those resolutions which were referred to that committee before the rules were sus¬ pended, are they now up for consideration or not? THE PRESIDENT—The rules are suspended only for the purpose of placing on its passage the resolution offered by the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery., The clerk will please read the journal. The journal of yesterday was read by the Secretary, and ap¬ proved. MR. HOWELL—I move that the rules be suspended and that this resolution be put on its passage. The Secretary read the resolution: Resolved. That a committee of three be appointed by the Chair to wait on the clergymen of this city and invite them to lead religious service at the opening of the morning sessions of this body. MR. WHITE—I move the suspension of the rules and that the resolution be passed. A vote being taken the rules were suspended and a further vote being taken the resolution was adopted. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move that the Convention ad¬ journ until tomorrow morning at 11 o’clock. MR. DENT—Before that is done, I ask indefinite leave of absence for the member from Barbour, Mr. Jere N. Williams, who is called home on account of the serious illness of his grandchild. The leave was granted. MR. LONG (Walker)—It has been suggested that my motion to reconsider the vote by which the motion made by the gentle¬ man from Morgan was adopted, which makes the seats in this house a lottery, irrespective of Congressional Districts— THE PRESIDENT—Let me state the question before debate. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Walker to reconsider the vote by which the resolution of the gentleman from Morgan was adopted, providing for the distribution of the seats in this Convention. A reading of the resolution was called for, and the resolution was again read. MR. LONG (Walker)—That resolution is plain. It separates the members from the counties as well as the members from the Congressional Districts. It gives to the Populists and Republi- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 25 cans a chance to select the best seats in the House. This is a Democratic House and a Democratic measure. MR. FITTS—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—^The g^entleman will state his point of order. MR. FITTS—Under gfeneral parliamentary law, a motion to reconsider can only be made before other business. Business has intervened and this is out of order. MR. LONG (Walker)—I gave notice that I would make that motion. MR. FITTS—^The proper time to make the motion was then; but now business has intervened, and it is out of order. MR. LONG—I ask a ruling. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is inclined to think that the gentleman from Walker is out of order. MR. BLACKWELL—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point. MR. BLACKWELL—The gentleman did not vote for the original resolution when it was adopted. MR. LONG — I make the point of order that he does not know what he is talking about. Besides, then was the time he should have made his point of order; and I ask the President to rule him out of order. THE PRESIDENT—Did the gentleman vote for the resolu¬ tion? MR. LONG—I don’t know that I should be challenged on that. I make the point that then was the time to make the chal¬ lenge. THE PRESIDENT — I think the challenge does come too late, after the Chair has stated the question to the Convention, and the gentleman from Walker will proceed. MR. LONG—It would be an injustice to many gray-haired delegates to adopt that resolution. It is a slap at the church to turn this Convention into a gambling association the first day we meet. If we are going to turn this into a gamble, I think we had better shoot craps for the seats. The Democrats have won the victory and they are entitled to the advantages of the seats in the House. I think it would be wise to reconsider that proposition and let one or two from each Congressional District be appointed by the Chair and I take it that it would be wise for the Chair to select the oldest Democrats to select these seats. The oldest Demo- 26 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS crats in it should have the best seats, and I move a reconsideration of the vote by which the motion of the gfentleman from Morp^an was carried, and on that I call for the previous question. THE PRESIDENT—The previous question is moved. The question is whether the main question shall be put. MR. WHITE—The call for the previous question has not been sustained, and I submit that while this may appear to be a matter of little— MR. LONG—I rise to a point of order. The previous ques¬ tion has been called and it is the duty of the Chair to put that question before there is any other argument made, pro or con. MR. WHITE—But the call has not been sustained. THE PRESIDENT—I think the point of order is well taken. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—^There is no special rule providing for the previous question. In the absence of a rule calling for the previous question, the previous question is out of order. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will over-rule the point of the gentleman from Clarke, and the question is shall the main question be put. MR. WHITE—Can’t I speak to this question. THE PRESIDENT—The question is not debatable. MR. WHITE—Then I hope the previous question will be not ordered, and I move to indefinitely postpone it. MR. BROOKS—I rise to a point of order. A motion cannot be made to indefinitely postpone a call for the previous question. THE PRESIDENT—^The point of order is well taken. A vote was then taken and on a call for a division the result was announced : Yeas, 51 ; nays, 62. So the motion was lost. The Chair then recognized Mr. White. MR. WHITE—^This proceeding, as I was going to say, is a matter of little concern, but as 1 understand it, we are here, not as partisans, but are here representing the people of Alabama. (Applause) And the question of the adoption of what we do must be submitted to the people of Alabama, and if our proceedings on the first day of our organization are characterized by partisanship and injustice, how can we expect the people of Alabama to think well of and ratify what we do? And now we are told that the resolution which has been adopted should be reconsidered, because it is a lottery. I deny, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 27 Mr. President, that there is anything immoral or improper in the selection of seats by lot. If there were I would be one of the last men in this Convention to stand by it and sustain it. In Congress the seats are selected by lot. We have that splendid example be¬ ginning with the formation of our government and extending down to the present time. In nearly all of the States of the Union, seats in their legislative bodies are selected by lot, and we have that to justify our conduct. Upon our own statutes, where men are running for office under the laws of Alabama when they tie, it is provided that it shall be decided by lot. So that the proposition is sanctified by law, and the law of Alabama at that. Now, Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Convention, about the other matter. MR. OATES—Will my friend allow me to suggest that this is the plan that prevails in Congress, and has prevailed for one hun¬ dred years. MR. WHITE—I understand that, but I could not say it like the gentleman from Montgomery. We are told today that some scheme must be arranged by which delegates elected to seats upon this floor must be discrimi¬ nated against because they belong to a partj'^ other than our own. For one, I confess that I am a partisan; but I am not such a partisan as that. One delegate elected to this Convention has the same rights upon this floor that every other delegate has. He ought to be given the same opportunities and the same advantages to represent his constituency that every other delegate has. F05 one, I am not ready now to insult or to discriminate against any delegate upon the floor of this Convention and I am not ready to insult or to discriminate against the constituency behind him. They are Alabamians and they have interests and rights, and these delegates are here to reflect their will and protect their rights, and they have a right to be heard with equal advantages and with equal opportunities with the rest of us. I want, Mr. President, when we have finished the Constitu¬ tion, that Populists and Republicans and all may welcome and vote for it. Mr. President, if I had my way, and it were controlled by my voice or by my vote, I would not adopt a Constitution for Alabama that would perpetuate indefinitely the partisan rule of any party. We are not looking forward to the interests or to the welfare of any political organization; but we are looking forward to the de¬ velopment and the growth and glory of Alabama as a State. (Ap¬ plause.) While I love the Democratic party, while I have faced the front in its ranks from the days of my boyhood until now, while I expect to fight its battles while I live, I love my country better than I do my party. A party with me is but the implement 28 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS by which great ends can be accomplished. I do not believe it should ever become my master, and I its slave. And I say, Mr. President, if this resolution is adopted, backed by the speech of my friend—my good friend from Walker, in whose fields I labor and labor not in vain—if that resolution is adopted. I can say to you "Farewell to every Republican vote in Alabama looking to its ratification.” You can say farewell to every Populist vote in Alabama looking to its ratification. I know something of the task we had to perform in securing the holding of this Convention, and I can see something of the duties, the responsibilities, the labors and the uncertainties that will confront us in its adoption if we undertake by any such parti¬ san methods as this to deny upon the floor of this Convention equal rights and equal opportunities to every delegate upon this floor, and I hope, Mr. President, that the resolution of the gen¬ tleman from Walker to reconsider the vote will be laid upon the table, which motion I now make. MR. LONG—As the mover of the resolution, I have a right to conclude. THE PRESIDENT—^A motion to lay on the table is not de¬ batable. MR. LONG — I ask the gentleman from Jefferson to with¬ draw it. He is certainly not afraid of a discussion of this question before the house. THE PRESIDENT—^A motion to lay on the table is not de¬ batable. MR. LONG—I ask the gentleman from Jefferson to withdraw it. He is certainly not afraid of a discussion of this question be¬ fore the house. MR. WHITE—My brother, I would like to do it— MR. LONG—Oh, don’t do it if you don’t want to. MR. WHITE—On your account I would do almost anything, but I do not think it is conducive to the best interests of the peo¬ ple of Alabama or to the high standing of this Convention, that this discussion along these lines should proceed. (Applause). THE PRESIDENT—^The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Jefferson to lay on the table the motion of the gentleman from Walker. MR. LONG—I want to see how many of the members of this House are in favor of gag law on a question of this kind. If this is an insult to the Republicans, they have been insulted ever since the Democratic party came into power in this hall in 1874. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman is out of order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 29 A DELEGATE—One delegate can’t demand a roll call. THE PRESIDENT—^The Chair knows of no general parlia¬ mentary rule that requires any particular number of votes. In the absence of some special rule to sustain a call for an aye and no vote I think the rule is that any member may call for it, and the Secretary will call the roll. MR. BURNETT — I would like for the Chair to state the question. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Walker moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution offered by the gen¬ tleman from Morgan was adopted, and now the gentleman from Jefferson moves to lay that motion on the table, and a yea and nay vote is demanded. The roll being called resulted as follows: AYES Messrs. President, Graham, of Talladega, Murphree, Altman, Grant, NeSmith, Almon, Greer, of Calhoun, Norman, Ashcraft, Handley, Norwood, Banks, Harrison, Oates, Barefield, Henderson, O’Neal (Lauderdale), Beavers, Hinson, O’Neill (Jefferson), Beddow, Hodges, Opp, Blackwell, Howell, O’Rear, Boone, Jackson, Palmer, Browne, Jones, of Hale, Parker (Cullman), Bulger, Jones, of Wilcox, Parker (Elmore) Burnett, Kirk, Pearce, Burns, Kirkland, Pettus, Byars, Ledbetter, Phillips, Carmichael, of Colbert, Leigh, Pillaas, Carmichael, of Coffee, Locklin, Pitts, Carnathon, Lomax, Porter, Case, Long (Butler), Proctor, Cunningham, Lowe (Lawrence), Reynolds (Chilton), Dent, Macdonald, Reynolds (Henry), deGraffenreid, McMillan (Baldwin), Rogers (Lowndes), Eley, McMillan (Wilcox), Samford, Eyster, Malone, Sanders, Espy, Martin, Sentell, Ferguson, Maxwell, Sloan, Pitts, Merrill, Smith, Mac. A., Foshee, Miller (Marengo), Smith, Morgan M., Foster, Miller (Wilcox), Sollie, Freeman, Moody, Sorrell, Gilmore, Mulkey, Spears, OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ThofnptOQ» Weaklers Wilton (Clarke), Vaughan, Weatherly, Wilson (Washington) Waddell, White, Winn, Walker, Whiteside, NOES Total—104. Bethune, Graham, of Montgomery, Long (Walker), Brooks, Grayson, Reese, Cardon, Greer, of Perry, Robinson, Chapman, Haley, Rogers (Sumter), Cobb, Heffin, of Chambers, Sanford, Coleman, of Grttnt, Heflin, of Randolph, Searcy, Coleman, of Walker, Hood, Selhcimcr, Cornwall, Howzc, Spragins, Craig, Inge, Stewart, Davis, of DeKalb, Jenkins, Tayloe, Davis, of Etowah, Jones, of Bibb, Watts, Duke, Jones, of Montgomery, Willett, Fletcher, Knight, Williams (Marengo), Glover, Kyle, Total—41. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Bartlett, Lowe (Jefferson), Smith (Mobile), Cofer, Morrisette, Studdard, King, Renfro, Williams (Elmore). Williams (Barbour), So the motion to table prevailed. During the roll call. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I vote "no” simply from the fact that I think my friend from Walker ought to have a chance to be heard. Otherwise I would vote aye. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I vote “no” but it is not in¬ dicative of my feelings. I think, though, that this is an open question, and this is as good a time to discuss it as any. There¬ fore, I vote no. MR. BURNS—I ask leave to explain my vote. The leave is given. MR. BURNS—I was heartily in favor of the resolution to re¬ consider, but on account of reason assigned for it, I shall vote aye. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move to adjourn until tomor¬ row at 11 o'clock. Cries of “Scats.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 31 MR. LONG (Walker)—^The resolution under which those seats are to be drawn provided for a page to be selected by the President. This Convention is without pages, and how can we do that until pages or a page is selected? A vote being taken on the question to adjourn and a division being asked the vote resulted, yeas, 57; nays, 65. And the Con¬ vention refused to adjourn. MR. BLACKWELL—now move that the Convention pro¬ ceed with the business of selecting seats. MR. LONG (Walker)—I suggest that you send out and get a deck of cards and let the Chaplain deal out the cards and the high spade get the choice. MR. LOWE (Lawrence)—I don’t understand how we can possibly proceed now. A DELEGATE—The President can appoint a boy to act as page. MR. BURNETT—I rise to a point of order. There is other business before the Convention. The motion of the gentleman from Montgomery to appoint a Committee of nine was carried. The President has not appointed that committee. Then there was the motion to appoint two members from each Congressional Dis¬ trict on the Committee on Rules. That is the next business in order. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is not ready to announce those committees, and the point is well taken. MR. CUNNINGHAM—^The question of seating is very im¬ portant. The names have to be written and put into a hat and there are many delegates absent, not knowing that this important business was to come up. I therefore move that the selection of the seats be made a special order immediately after the reading of the Journal tomorrow morning and in the meantime the Secre¬ tary can prepare the names and the Door Keeper number the seats. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman from Jefferson moves as a substitute that this be made a special order—^the distribution of seats—immediately after the reading of the journal tomorrow morning. MR. OATES—It is not necessary to go to the trouble of num¬ bering the seats. When the name of a delegate is drawn, it can be pasted on the seat. MR. CUNNINGHAM^—I withdraw that part of the motion then. MR. OATES—^I atn in favor of the motion, but I merely want to say that much because the gentleman did not seem to exactly 32 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS understand the method. The seats will be vacated and when a gentleman’s name is called he will be allowed to go and select any seat not occupied and his name will be put on it. A vote being taken, the motion was carried. On motion of Mr. Proctor, the Convention then adjourned until tomorrow morning at 11 o’clock. THIRD DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Thursday, May 23, 1901. The Convention met at 11 o’clock a. m., was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Andrews as follows: O Lord, our Heavenly Father, we thank Thee that through the riches of Thy grace and Providence we are permitted to meet this morning. We thank Thee for the health and strength and vigor of mind and body which characterizes all of Thy servants who this morning have met to carry out the mandates of their constituencies and to act for their good and for their future wel¬ fare. We thank Thee, O Lord, for Thy blessings upon our beloved State. We thank Thee that Thou hast led us along the paths of prosperity and in the ways of peace. We pray this morning that Thy blessings may rest upon our Commonwealth. Bless our State and all those, we beseech Thee, who are in authority over us. Bless Thy servant, the Governor. Bless all who aid him in the respon¬ sible work that he has in hand, and may the Lord give to our peo¬ ple gracious and abundant prosperity and grant that they may not only be blessed with the goods of this world, but that they may be everlastingly rewarded in the world that is to come. We pray Thee our Heavenly Father that every department of our State government may receive Thy blessing, and that our people in the common, ordinary walks of life may be people who love God, who serve Him with consistency and fidelity and who honor Him with pure lives and holy thoughts and with noble and upright walks, and we pray Thee, our Heavenly Father, that Thou wouldst bless not only our State, the State so dear unto our hearts, but bless this government in which we live. Give unto the Presi¬ dent of this Republic and all his counselors wisdom that in the delicate and responsible work which lies before our government they may have Divine direction and that they may receive the blessings and the guiding wisdom that God alone can give. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 33 We pray Thee, O Lord, to bless this body assembled from all parts of the State. Bless Thy servants. Grant that their lives and their influence in our Capital City may 6e pure and wholesome and {jood. Grant that they may represent their constituencies not only in these halls, not only in the faithful discharge of duty, but, O Lord, help them that they may represent them in pureness of thought and life so that when they are gone the influence that they have left behind them will tell for good upon future genera¬ tions. And, O Lord, help them especially, we pray Thee, in the difficult work that calls them together. We know. Our Father, in all things we need Divine aid, and that in the work which lies before this Convention they especially need the direction that cometh alone from on high. They stand with uncovered heads be¬ fore Almighty God in the presence of an expectant people, and we pray Thee that they may prove worthy of the trust committed to their care. Help them that they may be careful, help them that they may be prudent, but help them that they may be eminently wise in all that they do and in all that they say, and when the work is done, may it be such as God will approve and such as their peo¬ ple will applaud and such as that their consciences will tell them that they have done the best they could, and grant our gracious Lord that their deliberations from day to day may be honored by Thy presence and that truth may characterize all that they do, and when their work is done, may they go back to the people and may the gracious Father on high say unto each one, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant.” Grant, our Father, as we are preparing here for the best method of living amid the conditions of our own Southern life, that we fnay all of us act and live in such a way that when the time shall come that we must pass to the judgment bar of the Kternal One, we may there receive the plaudit of Our Father and an abundant entrance into the home on high. Bless Thy servant who is called to preside over this Conven¬ tion. Give him wisdom, and, O Lord God Almighty, grant that he may have the health which God can give in his difficult work. Bless each one of the officers, bless all of our people and finally, O Lord, when our work below is done, when by the will of God, we have served our day and generation and sleep with our fathers may we enter upon the heritage which remains for those who lived right and honored God and throughout eternity we will praise Thy matchless name forever, thiough Christ our Redeemer. Amen. The President directed the Clerk to call the roll, which was done. THE PRESIDENT—There are one hundred and forty-nine members present, which is a quorum. The next thing in order is the reading of the Journal, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 35 HIT? •RTfTfcJTJ' T ask that the gentleman will also i^lude in that « thS;rIho Wd seats in the Cons.ttn- tional Convention of 18/5. MR. WEATHERLY—That will be readily accepted. ■MT3 A\7TT IClarkel—I rise in behalf of a gentleman of this Convention who is not ^ M ^ny^her Oinstitiltional Co°nvention but who a man of very superior intellect and who ^as it crutches and if he it ^i\efer to the Hon. Dabney ^ifme^'anfras'k uLius^consent that his name may be added to the list of exempted ones. the age of 65 years be allowed to choose their seats. No action was taken on this resolution. mTTE president —The question is on the adoption of the motiln^^f fh^Pfntan from J— Operation of the rule as to se r Supreme Court, and Srthr”‘‘meSs of Snllitutional (invention of 1875. and Hon. Dabney Palmer. Do you accept that. MR. WEATHERLY—Yes Sir. Tv/ru nATPable of passing upon everything, I don't think any gentleman should be apprehen¬ sive of anything that possibly may be uttered by any delegate to this convention, whether it be under review in the Congress of the United States or before the Supreme Court of the United States. My friend's a])prehension seems to be that whatever constitution is framed here will have to undergo the ordeal of passing the Su¬ preme Court of the United States. I do not concur in that view. I have confidence in the wisdom and the learning of the gentlemen composing this convention to believe—in fact, to know that they will, pursuing the platform, or at least one plank of it that was adopted, put n(^thing into the new Constitution in conflict with the Constitution of the United States, and that, therefore, there will be no necessity for our new Convention to undergo that ordeal. I have no idea that it will be so framed that any one can claim that it is in violation or any provision of it, is in violation of the Con¬ stitution of the United States, and, therefore, it could not come before that body. I think my friend's apprehensions are not well founded, and believing that the delegates composing this Conven¬ tion are intelligent gentlemen I would like to preserve the argu¬ ments and reasons given in support of or in opposition to any proposition that may be presented, believing that with the small expense incurred because the proposition of Mr. McGauly the acceptance of which the Committee recommends is remarkably reasonable, very low, in fact, I had not thought it was possible that we could have gotten the reports made and printed so cheaply. Believing thus, I think the Convention is certainly prepared to adopt the report of the Committee and will, therefore, vote down the proposition of my friend to substitute his minority report for the report of the Committee. MR. SOLLIE—I rise to favor the report of the majority of the Committee in this case. This Convention is entering upon a his¬ tory-making event in Alabama. We have something approaching the population that the country had when the first Constitution of the United States was framed. Alabama continues to grow in im¬ portance and her resources seem to be well nigh inexhaustible. We who take the perspective and undertake to see what there is in the future for Alabama, necessarily see before us a great and glorious career for our State. Taking its growth in the past, its history up to the present, whatever touches the entire State of Alabama, necessarily is dear to all Alabamians. I remember in my own experience that when I take up questions dealing with the Constitution of the United States, especially when I come to the deep constitutional questions down in the late decisions of our courts, the language there is inadequate to fully express all that occurred and I long for some information that does not appear on the face of the record. 58 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS There are in this Convention gentlemen of capacity, ^fentle- men of experience and legal learning whose arguments bearing upon the vital questions which must come up in connection with the Constitution we are about to frame will of very necessity be of the greatest benefit to persons reading the Constitution to be made by this Convention. I have sought with profit and benefit, Mr. Chairman, such rays of light as may be found to fall upon our National Constitution from looking into the debates, into this history of what occurred in our National Convention when our National Constitution was first framed. Wherever there is a question doubtful in its character or difficult of understanding, the language of which is inadequate and does not give fully the meaning, the debates will throw light on the proposition to the searcher after wisdom. On that idea alone, the light that will be thrown on the Con¬ stitution to those who are studying it, the publication of these debates are of great and inestimable value. Then taking up the minority report, it assumes that there are men who sit in this hall who do not stop to weigh the force of the remarks made by them. I cannot say whether that assumption is founded upon facts which justify it. If it is, I regret it, but conceding that it is true, considering the intelligence we know we have here, such will be the exception, not the rule. I know that the majority of the speeches that will be made here will be such that our people may read with edification. I know that nearly all of them will be speeches of which we shall not be ashamed. So from whatever standpoint it is viewed, I saw the propo¬ sition to report the proceedings as has been said by a majority of the speakers is highly proper. Why should not the State of Ala¬ bama stand in the fore front of progress whenever the question of progress arises. It is a fact well known to all well-informed persons that Con¬ ventions meet, assemblies meet whose proceedings are to become historic, whose actions are to involve the highest dignity and best judgment. And the proceedings of such bodies are looked after and preserved with care. I favor the majority report and trust that it will be adopted. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to favor the minority report. I believe we should have a record of what we do but I do not be¬ lieve we should have a record of what we say. I do not think it is right and just to any of the members on this floor to have these speeches recorded so that the Colored Cooks Union can go search¬ ing through them in the years to come and get up a labor strike and refuse to allow any of its members to take employment in any house, the head of which voted in favor of disfranchising the negro. Suppose some delegates were to say that no one CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 59 should be allowed to vote except white men and Caucasians. Now, I believe violations of the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments are but political crimes, and it would take very little for me to vote for an amendment in the suffrag;e clause that nobody but white men should vote. Of course, the penalty of that would be to cut dow'n our representation in Cong^ress and I do not believe that would be g^ood reading^ when the Supreme Court of the United States comes to pass on the constitutionality of this Constitution, and a partisan Supreme Court at that. I can see no ^ood reason why we should have reports of everything: that is said in this Con¬ vention. There is no record that this was done in the last Consti¬ tutional Convention and I cannot see any reason why it should be done now. I am not afraid to speak my sentiments at any time but I do not think we should have a political record there in black and white that some of the delegates will have to be dodging for twenty years to come. I think the minority report should be adopted, I shall vote for it and I hope a majority of the delegates will do the same thing. MR. MERRILL—There was some apprehension on the part of the people before the Convention was called that there was something hid, that there was something out of sight, that some mine would be sprung and that some person would be injured thereby. . It was my purpose in the discussion of this matter before the people, to take the people into my confidence and I think that that should be done in the fullest and most complete way. The way to do that is to have every word said upon this floor spread out and let the people of Alabama see what has been said and done. Then, there can be no doubt hereafter. That controls my remarks more than any other reason. I believe that a full and fair report of everything done and said sent to the people of Alabama will do more to secure the adoption of the Constitution that we shall make than any other one thing that we could do and the cost being small and the reasons great, I think the Convention would act unwisely to undertake to hide what they do under a bushel or anywhere else. Let us take them into our confidence and when you trust the people, you will hereafter be trusted by them. MR. WEATHERLY—Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Convention—There are several reasons why I, as a member of this committee concurred in the majority report. In the first place, it ocurred to me that when we met here in Convention we met mainly for the purpose of discussion. It occurred to me that in formulating our actions as a body and crystallizing them into the form of a Constitution that that result would be most largely at¬ tended after discussion. Now, discussion implies always, mutual help. It implies a necessity devolving upon those who discuss of aiding each other in every way by reason. And it occurred to me that if the members of this Convention could have placed before 60 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS them daily everything that had been done and said on the previous day, especially in matters going over from one day to another that it would be a great aid in oiling and lubricating that machinery which is absolutely necessary to the conduct of this Convention— that machinery which could be termed discussion. That was the first thing that occurred to me. Another reason was that I thought it was desirable that we should have the utmost publicity in connection with our proceed¬ ings at least that part of our proceedings not occurring in the committee. I saw no reason why we should not take the people into our confidence. I saw no reason why we should not show to many of those who had objections to the calling of this Convention, who were suspicious of what we were doing, say here is what we did and here are the reasons for it. We give these reasons and take and examine them. Look into our hearts and see once for all the motives of your agents in acting for you and then when we come to submit our actions to you you have our record. This is a republican government. There is no such a thing known to us as an alien and foreign body sitting in one place and legislating in secret for people residing in another place. We are a part of them and they are our masters. Another reason that occurred to me: Some suggestion has been made here by two of the distinguished speakers that have pre¬ ceded me that there might be some political reason for secrecy, that it might not be diplomatic or wise to publish to the world the reasons which impelled us to adopt the suffrage clause of the Con¬ stitution. I for one, gentlemen of the Convention, am not afraid to publish whatever views I may have upon the suffrage to the people of this State or the people of the world and I do not believe that this high-minded and intelligent body will adopt any plan for the regu¬ lation of suffrage that they would be ashamed to publish to the civilized world. I believe—I have confidence and trust enough in the members of this Convention to believe that in arriving at their conclusion upon the suffrage they will proceed upon high grounds. They will act efficiently, they will remedy the evil which we were brought here to remedy but they will do it in such a way as that their action will meet with the intelligent approval and moral ap¬ probation of their fellow citizens in Alabama and in the nation and of the people of the world, not now but of twenty years from now. The gentleman from Walker seems to think that twenty years from now some speech that is made in the Convention will be seized upon whereby to criticise the work of the Convention. I believe that what we want is the truth. We need never fear the truth. We shall base our actions on the lines of truth and when we do it, instead of becoming weaker and weaker from day to day, a century from now when the world has grown wiser, when the real reasons that have actuated our sovereign people in meeting CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 61 together and solving this crisis have sunk deeper and deeper into the hearts of men until with unanimity they shall say the sovereign white people were right. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I am in favor of the majority report and in favor of public records. From the time a child first cries until he dies of old age the man makes a record in this world. By that record he is judged by his fellow men, by that record he is to be tried at the judgment bar of Almighty God. I am willing to admit the propriety of concealment in some things, not only the propriety, but the necessity. I am quite sure if the records of the individuals of this Convention in all of the relations of life had been stenographically reported at the time that many things that have been done would have been omitted. Matters that concern us as individuals between ourselves and our Maker, between our¬ selves and our God, are private matters for which no one suffers and no one is blessed but ourselves. But in public capacities we should go on record not merely as to what we do but as to what we say. Words are the signs of ideas and what we want here is ideas. And if those ideas can be expressed in words, then those words should be taken down that they may be studied. I for one have no Constitution in my pocket. I do not know that I shall propose a single thing for this Convention. I for one confess that I am incompetent to pass on certain matters. One of those questions is the inhibition of the Constitution of the United States on the question of suffrage. There are gentlemen on this floor who know what this Convention can do, there are gentlemen who do not know. I belong to the latter class and I would like to have an opportunity in my room or in some quiet spot to take up and study these questions that have been submitted by men who are competent to pass upon these questions. It is true that in the enthusiasm of the moment we sometimes say things that we ought not to say. There are perhaps many married men who can recall the time when if they had had stenographic reports of the situation and studied over them they would not have proposed. Now what we want to do is to be given an opportunity to sift out the wheat from the chaff that we may make flour for the mills that not even the Supreme Court of the United States can afford to deny and to do that we must have an opportunity to study these questions. The cost is of no consequence, much less than I had supposed it could be done for, but whether it can be done for that is not my business. 'That is the business of the gen¬ tlemen who gives the bond, and I am heartily in favor of going on record in this business not only as to what we do, but as to what the motives are that inspire our action and if there is in what is said a shroud of death for the future statesman, it is he who weaves the shroud and if there is future greatness and honors to him that is approved by the people, then by virtue of every Ameri¬ can right as a citizen and as an aspirant he has a right to it, and 62 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS therefore he should be proud of it. I sincerely hope the majority report will be adopted. MR. ASHCRAFT—I think I have the capacity and the ex¬ perience which will enable me to express clearly some of the reasons why these reports should not be made. There is not a man on this floor who believes in the publicity of our actions more than I do. I do not want this Convention to do anything- in the dark; but, sir, in order tiiat we shall be known of men, and the purposes which have actuated us during the session of this Convention, it is not necessai*}" that it should be put down in black and white. If we shall be able to say anything which is worth bein^- gathered into the storehouse of the ^reat human heart, then, Mr. President, it will be treasured up here, and the representatives of the press, as the minority report says, will promulgate it and distril)ute it amon^ the people of the State. If any are so unfortunate as to express those thing’s which are unworthy of guiding human con¬ duct they too will be gathered in, like the tares of old, and con¬ sumed in the fires of oblivion. We have no occasion to perpetuate them. I have no desire in the years that are to come to i)oint to any of my fellow citizens and say you made this, and this, and this mistake in the years that are gone by. Now. Mr. Chairman, I believe that the elastic way in which our Supreme Courts have handled the constitutions, not only of the United States, but of the respective States, has enabled them to adjust them to our pro¬ gressive situation, and I am perfect!}" willing as the years go by. to have those august bodies review our actions, and search after our motives in the light of the experiences which then surround them, and I believe under those circumstances that they will feel less bound, and less hampered by the ties of the past, if they are left free from these printed reports. But, Mr. President, it has been said that we want a free and full discussion. There are many members on this floor who are not experienced in public debate, who would be glad to stand up here among their fellow citizens and speak out the plain and simple words which move in their hearts, but those men will feel a sense of timidity and diffidence in expressing themselves freely and frankly if their rhetoric, if the form of their expression and all that kind of thing is to be put down to be read and criticised by those who may be willing to lightly treat their course of conduct. Now, Mr. President, under all the circumstances, the fact that we do not get this matter in th^ nature of a bound book, but only in the nature of a newspaper supplement; in view of the fact that it will really result in darkness to have laid upon the desk of the members of this Convention a great mass of undigested matter every morning, instead of a revelation of the truth, I think that we ought not to print it. What we want is light today. Those who live after us will receive the light they need. The Journal, which will be kept, the memorandum of those matters which will be found in the daily papers, and the Calendar which this Convention CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 63 will probably print, will furnish to us as much matter and as much refreshing* of recollection as we will be able advantageously to use, and I therefore, Mr. President, believe that it will be to the interest of this State for the minority report to prevail. MR. BROWNE—As a member of the Committee, I desire to say a few words in regard to this resolution. I desire to state for the information of the delegates that this proposition to print em- braces the same idea as the proposition of the gentleman who did not secure the l)id. Mr. Mc(/iauly proposes that this printing shall be done by The Advertiser and The Advertiser proposes to place in each copy that it sends out over the State, these proceed- ings in the shape of a supplement. Now when I was first appointed upon that Committee, I was opposed to the publication of this stenographic report and saw no necessity for it. But it occurred to me that it would be a good plan for us not only to report to out constituents, to those who sent us here, our work, but at the same time to report to them the reasons for our work, and also an explanation of it. The same argument, and the same discussion that convinces the members of this Convention and causes them to adopt or to propose a Constitution, when sent out broadcast to all of our constituents and the people of the State of Alabama, will, if we were properly convinced, in turn convince the people of the State of Alabama and will cause them to ratify the Constitution that we propose. Those, Mr. President, are the reasons that caused me to change my mind, and to be in favor of a stenographic report when I was at first opposed to it. I do not know now that I would have favored it if it were not for the fact that by this means we get a thousand copies laid upon our desk for our own use, and at the same time we send to all of the people of Alabama every day, a full steno¬ graphic report of every thing we do, and the reasons therefor and explanation thereof. MR. SPRAGINS—The minority report of this committee has not received at the hands of this convention the attention which I think the merit of the controversy entitles it to, and it urges me as a member of this Convention at this time to put in my oar. The members of the majority urge upon this Convention many reasons for the adoption of the majority report. It may be said, sir, with equal truth, that there are many reasons more potent in support of the minority report. It is said that the public is entitled to a free and untrammeled inspection of what occurs before this Convention, as if the omni¬ present newspaper reporter had not found a local habitation and name in Montgomery. The gentleman from Jefferson on my ex¬ treme right says in protection of the married man, that if a steno¬ graphic report had been preserved of his proposal, that many of us would be sowing our wild oats. To the strangers in this Conven¬ tion to the gentleman from Jefferson, that is a confession that the 64 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS jfentleman is a married man, and seems to think that he and all of us are anxious to get out from under the bond and yoke that our wives have upon our collars. (Laughter.) Mr. President, we have come here to discuss matters that will be submitted before this Convention, but I submit, sir, that we have not come here for the purpose of preserving these discussions at the expense of the State of Alabama. (Applause.) If there is any man within this Convention who desires to preserve his elo¬ quence, I am sure that The Advertiser can furnish him with as many copies of The Advertiser as will be necessary to carry out the scheme. The only argument, sir, that the advocates for the adoption of the majority report have urged upon this floor is that in the event this Constitution is to be considered by the courts of the country, what we say in making that Constitution will be valuable to the court in getting at our intention. The Honored Chairman of the Committee, who makes the majority report, has confidence in the intelligence and the patriotism of this body. He talks much to you about relying upon the wisdom of the members of this Convention, but he tells you at the same time, sir, that we must put a clause in the Constitution and then in the record of the Convention we must say, gentlemen, what we mean by it. I have, sir, a higher respect for the wisdom and learning of the members of the Convention than has the gentleman from Montgomery. I believe, sir, that we will frame a Constitution that will be so plain that it can be understood by all men, even by the Supreme Court of the United States. I hope, gentlemen of the convention, that you will not put the State of Alabama to this useless expense. MR. SAMFORD—Mr. President, I hesitate and did hesitate for some time before I decided to make any remarks on a question that had been passed upon by a committee of members for whom I have such high esteem, but it occurs to me that to the observing man, one thing has been made plain to the members who form this convention, and that is that every thoughtful man in this con¬ vention is advancing towards the work that has been allotted it to do, with extreme caution, and in a very gingerly manner. It is an open secret in Alabama that a majority of the people are in favor of eliminating 'the negro from politics, without interfering with the rights of any white man, and while I agree with the gen¬ tleman from Jefferson in I saying that we ought to take into con¬ fidence every citizen of the State of Alabama, and every person who has any interest in this matter, I hold to the view that outside of the confines of this State, nobody has got anything to do with our business, and adverse criticism is neve;r relished from one’s enemies, and if the verbatim reports of this convention could be confined to those who are vitally interested in its work, I might fevor the passage and the adoption of the majority of this commit¬ tee, hotwithstanding the unnecessary expense that the State of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 65 Alabama will be put to on account of it. Now, Mr. President, the question of expense is no small item. They speak of a thousand or two thousand, or three thousand dollars as if money grew on trees, and we had it to squander, or to expend as our caprice or whims might dictate. I will state for the information of this body, perhaps some of the mefhbers are not aware of the fact, that only a limited amount has been set apart and appropriated for the pro¬ ceedings of this convention. I will also state for the benefit of others, that it is not incumbent upon us to expend every dollar that has been appropriated. Eighteen hundred dollars — two thousand dollars, three thousand dollars, what does it avail? What does it avail? In the first place, it goes to our enemies beyond the confines of the State, perhaps furnishing sticks to crack our heads with in times of trouble that are likely to follow. And within the confines of the State it gives to some men—some men I say—^there are very thoughtful men who desire to have their views recorded in bound volumes for the enlightenment of posterity, but it gives to some men in this convention, and I will say only a few men, the opportunity of airing their views before an admiring public, and that is the extent-—(applause) that is the extent, Mr. President, of the benefits to be derived from a steno¬ graphic report of these proceedings. The milk in the cocoanut, the germ in the nut (smiles) all that will be necessary to guide future generations (laughter) will be gotten out of it, as my friend from Madison saiid, by the enterprising newspaper man, and I have been taught to believe that he gets the best of everything. (Con¬ tinued laughter.) Now, Mr. President, the lapsus lingue of the speaker is a strong argument against a stenographic report. And I trust it will not be recorded in that way. Now, Mr. Speaker, Mr. President, I trust that this—the minority report of the committee will be adopted. In my humble opinion, while there are some reasons why the other would be good, the reasons are not sufficient to warrant the outlay of money that is necessary for it, when taken in connection with the serious objections that go along with the question of expense. MR. HARRISON^—I think, Mr. President, that a moment’s reflection would satisfy my friend from Pike and other gentlemen, that he need not be uneasy about the expense of these stenograph¬ ic reports. They are mistaken. To my mind, it is one of the strongest reasons why we should have our proceedings reported. There are 155 delegates in this convention. If we sit six hours a day, the cost will be over |50 for the time that it would take to read the journal in the morning. If it is printed and upon the desk of each member^ we ,c6uld with safety dispense with the reading of the journal, and the saving of a half an hour alone would, in My judgment, and L believe if the delegates will make the calcula¬ tion it will be found to more than pay the expense of these report- 66 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ers. This is to say nothing, Mr. President, of the time that will be saved. I do not know whether you can take that from the class to which the gentleman who made the minority report has referred to—^those gentlemen whom he says desire to speak in a plain and simple way; or others, who may, as some others have charged, simply desire to have this means of speaking to their con¬ stituents, but I submit upon every class that it will have the effect to save time to provide these reports—time that I think the dele¬ gates themselves will see—and I appeal to you to ask yourselves the question, whatever class you belong to, if you know your re¬ marks are to be recorded, and you read them the next morning, as I said to a friend of mine in the Senate who was going to Con¬ gress, I was glad he was going, that he would be more careful with his speeches when he got where he could read them the next morning in The Record. And, it will have that effect on the dele¬ gates. Delegates will not consume so much time of the convention, because when they desire to be heard, they will prepare them¬ selves, and when they have finished they will take their seats, and that amount of time and expense to this convention, I believe, will treble every day when in session in actually saving money to the State of Alabama. And, if for no other reason, I would favor the report of the majority of this committee, but what is the great reason, Mr. President? To my mind, it is this: that it has become the best way of keeping the records of any and all proceedings. We do it in the courts. They do it in Congress. All of the recent conventions have done it. Why, you had just as well tell me that you may as well go back and come to the Capitol here by private conveyance and not use the railroad, as to say that we will not use the expert stenographer in this country. It actually saves money. Arrives at the truth, and saves money in doing it, and should we simply hesitate here because some gentleman, perhaps, may desire twenty years from now to change his opinion. We have not time to wait. Let the gentleman prepare, and think well before he acts. Let us, gentlemen, give not to the people of Ala¬ bama, but to the people of the United States, the reason that ac¬ tuate us in anything we may do here. Let us stand by the truth. Publish it to the world, let it be whatever it may. There will be no expense incurred by this. You will find that it will be a saving to the State of Alabama. We will do another thing that is very much needed here, delegates. We have not taken the people of Alabama sufficiently into our confidence on the call and the elec¬ tion for this convention. The majority, and a large majority, have a hesitancy. I was proud this morning of the motioji of the gentleman from Dallas, where we have said that the people shall pass upon it. If we wish the people of Alabama to pass intelli¬ gently upon it, let us keep them posted day by day. Let us take our people into our own confidence. Let us assign our reasons, and let them read them, and upon the justice of our cause, and of whatever action we may conclude, let us be men, and stand by it. It is too small for a Constitutional Convention of the State of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 67 Alabama to be undertaking to hide or cloak anything. Let us give it to the world, that is the best way to do it, gentlemen. It is a money saving proposition, and I do hope with all due respect to my young friend who offers the minority report, that this Con¬ vention will proceed in a business-like way saving money to the State of Alabama, taking our people into our confidence, and as¬ signing publicly to the world whatever reasons we may have for the action we shall take and I feel satisfied that they will never regret it. MR. SANFORD—I have listened with a great deal of interest to the arguments that have been made pro and con on this propo¬ sition, but it does seem to me that if we are to take the people into our confidence, as the gentleman from Pike says we are to do, how can we take them into our confidence when they do not know a thing of what we wish, or a single word that we utter. We should remember that we stand here in the presence of eigh¬ teen hundred thousand people that are outside of these walls. In the absence of being able to hear they are equally solicitous as to what they shall read. The reading takes the place of an audience— MR. SAMFORD—Will the gentleman from Montgomery per¬ mit me to ask him a question. MR. SANFORD—Certainly. MR. SAMFORD — How many of these eighteen hundred thousand read the Advertiser? MR. SANFORD—It is not for The Advertiser alone,— It will be taken all over the country. The Advertiser will be extracted. Every man who utters a wise sentiment will be quoted. It is a matter of enlightenment to the people. Look at Madison’s papers, how valuable have they been in understanding correctly the Federal Constitution. Not national. That very word was stricken out of the proceedings of the Federal Convention of 1787, no less than twenty-six times. It is Federal. Some gentleman speaks of it as national but it is not a nation. That word was ex¬ punged from the proceedings— MR. MALONE—Will the gentleman permit me to ask a ques¬ tion. MR. SANFORD—Yes. MR. MALONE—^What is it good for? how many will read it? MR, SANFORD—It will be known all over Alabama, and I do not see if ray eighteen hundred thousand people are standing out here, why you should talk so softly that only one hundred and fifty-five should hear it. (Applause.) They wish to hear every¬ thing and in the absence of hearing, give them the right to read and comprehend it. You speak of expense. Why, my country- 68 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS men, no money was ever expended more wisely than that which enlightens the people, and which secures their liberties. The very arguments made here will instruct them as to why they should either reject or ratify the Constitution and that is the reason why these reports are made everywhere. It is for the enlightenment of the people, and therefore I say that there is no better mode of doing it than the recommendation made by the Committee—by the report of the majority of the Committee on this question. He says if it is confined to the State of Alabama he would have no objection to it. What objection has he to the fact that Georgia and Mississippi and Tennessee and Florida may know what we are doing. If we can benefit Alabama, why not let our wisdom, if we are wise, benefit all the other States sur¬ rounding us. I see no reason to confine it to Alabama. I see no rea¬ son for confining your argument to this hall. It presents every argument in the very words, and the logical sequence in which it was uttered, infinitely better than a mere hap-hazzard report. Therefore I say that this majority report should be adopted. MR. MALONE—I just want to ask one question. Who will it practically benefit? Who will it practically save expense—to us or to the newspapers? MR. SANFORD—It will benefit the people. MR. MALONE—Who will it save expense, to us or to the people ? MR. SANFORD—I do not hear the question. MR. BROWNE—I would like to answer the question— MR. SANFORD—It is not saving expense; it is paying ex¬ pense. The State does that. It does not merely benefit the news¬ papers, it benefits the people. MR. MALONE—You misunderstood the question. I want to know who gets the benefit of it? MR. SANFORD—The people get the benefit of it. It is in¬ tended for their benefit. It is intended to give them the argu¬ ments why they should adopt or reject this constitution, their organic law. It is for their benefit. And what is the expense for two million people? Eighteen hundred dollars, two thousand dol¬ lars, how much per man is it? A cigar or a glass of beer and they understand everything connected with the proceedings of this great convention, engaged in making the organic law df our State. I therefore hope gentlemen, that you will adopt the report of the majority. The expense is trifling; the benefit is infinite to the people and for these reasons I hope that you will sustain the report. MR. GREER—I regret exceedingly to be compelled to dis¬ sent from the views of the distinguished and eminent gentleman CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 69 who has preceeded me in support of the report of the majority of the committee, but, sir, the divine word of God says to us “be ye doers.” The people of Alabama today are not so much interested in what we say in this convention; it is what we do, and the journal read there shows what is done here. That is what the people of Alabama, I say are interested in, and not what we say. I am com¬ pelled to repeat what has been said on the floor of the convention, that the orators of this convention alone will be benefited by the adoption of the majority report; we have.not come here to make speeches but to do the will of the people who have sent us here. They might appear somewhat to disadvantage, if that report were adopted. It is not to be assumed, Mr. President, and we do not admit that the constitution framed by this convention will ever go to the Supreme Court. I believe that the wisdom and judg¬ ment of this convention will so frame a constitution that all will be satisfied that it will be within the scope and will not be in vio¬ lation of the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments of the Consti¬ tution of the United States. I do not believe, I cannot believe that the discussion on the floor of this convention would shed any light upon what is done here, and should the question not be raised in the Supreme Court, and should it be raised in the Congressional halls in an effort to cut down our representation, the very gentle¬ men who are so anxious to have their remarks published would like very much to have them erased. In view of those facts, Mr. President, I call for the question. (Cries “question.”) MR. HEFLIN—Mr. President, I desire to say a word or two. It appears to me, Mr. President, that it is out of order entirely for this Convention to have this stenographic report, because the news¬ papers,—it is their business to get up this news, and they do it, and they are to be congratulated on giving to the people of Ala¬ bama whatever has occurred here. It is the duty of the Secretary of this Convention to keep the Journal of the proceedings of this Convention, and it occurs to me that this is a useless expense to have a stenographic report, and also to have a Secretary and an Assistant Secretary for this Convention. The newspapers, day by day, will give the proceedings of this Convention. The Secretary will keep the journal of this Convention, and that is all, it occurs to me, that is necessary. Besides that— MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Mr. President, my information is that The Advertiser published the stenographic reports as a matter of courtesy to these reporters. Now does the gentleman undertake to state if this majority report is defeated that The Ad¬ vertiser will continue to furnish stenographic reports of the pro¬ ceedings of this Convention. MR. HEFLIN—No sir, I do not, Mr. President, and the gen¬ tleman misunderstood me. 70 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—My information from The Ad¬ vertiser and the other papers is that stenographic reports will not be published unless there is a reporter employed. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers) — I simply desire to say, Mr. President, in reply to that, that we do not expect The Advertiser and these daily papers to give out to the people of Alabama steno¬ graphic reports at their own expense. We do not ask them to do it. But, Mr. President and gentlemen of this Convention, it has been my experience with these papers in the Legislature of Ala¬ bama, that you see on the following day all that occurred yester¬ day in the General Assembly. They owe it to the men who patronize their paper. Mr. President, and they delight in doing it— MR. WEATHERLY—I will ask you if the ordinary news¬ paper report would be considered as an official account of the proceedings of this Convention? As I understand it, this will se¬ cure an official and permanent official report that will be a part of the archives of the State. Now I ask you whether or not that will be done by a mere newspaper report? MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I reply that I do not consider that it will be, nor do I think it is necessary that it should be. MR. DENT—I would like to ask the speaker a question. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Yes sir. MR. DENT—I believe you were a member of the Legislature? MR. HEFLIN (Cliambers)—No, sir, I was not. MR. DENT—Well, whether you were or not, is it not a fact that there was a great deal of confusion and uncertainty about the records of the Legislature, and a great many charges of irregu¬ larities. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Yes, sir, that is my information. MR. DENT—And it would have been avoided if there had been a stenographic report of the proceedings. MR. HEFLIN—That is my information, Mr. President; that there was some talk about irregularities in the last General As¬ sembly, but when I was here in '96-7—8-9, we did not have any of those irregularities. (Laughter). I am now undertaking, Mr. President, to keep them from getting into irregularities and making mistakes. Mr. President, we would appreciate, morning after morning, reading the well-rounded periods of the eloquent gentle¬ men who will speak time after time, upon the grave questions of this convention, but when you go, as one gentleman preceding me has already said, into the purse of the people and take out two thousand, twenty-five hundred dollars to preserve our speeches here, day after day, we are going to step too far, and must not CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 make that step. Another strong point to my mind has been sug-- g^ested by the gentleman from Walker. There will be things done and said in this convention that we do not want the Northern papers to have. There will be, Mr. President, when the battle comes between the Anglo-Saxon and the African, things said here that we do not want to go before the court of the United States in determining the plank in our constitution of the suffrage ques¬ tion. We will say things down here in our Southern way, and in the great old commonwealth of Alabama, that we do not want read and criticised day after day as we deliberate in this body. Mr. President, having here a secretary to keep a journal, having here newspapers who take a delight in giving the news and information from this convention to their people over the State, and having a desire to save this expense to the State of Alabama, I certainly hope that the minority report will prevail. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Mr. President, in reply to the remark of the gentleman as to what the Northern papers would say about us, I desire only to say that I do not know of any .‘sec¬ tion of this nation that is as much in need of enlightenment from a Southern standpoint as our Northern friends, (applause), and I, therefore, at this time demand the previous question. Cries, “question.” MR. OATES—Mr. President, I would ask my friend from Tal¬ ladega— MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I withdraw it in behalf of the chairman of the committee to close his remarks. MR. ESPY—I am in favor of the adoption of the majority report. There have been about four reasons assigned why it should not be adopted. The first, by the gentleman from Walker, who says that no other convention has ever done a similar thing. Another is that these eloquent gentlemen say, indirectly charge that the purpose of it is to perpetuate the eloquence of certain members of this convention. Another is that there is a probabilit}^ that the members of this convention, during its deliberations, will say something that in the future will rise up before them as a ghost and which they cannot see. The other is a matter of expense. These are the only objections that I have yet heard. In answer to the first, that no other convention has ever done likewise; Why if that is an objection at all, then the Legislature of Alabama has done a very poor thing in calling this convention and putting this great State to the expense of holding this con¬ vention, if we are to be limited, and are to do nothing more than our ancestors did in this hall in 1875. If that be true, why, then, we would not be authorized to deal with the suffrage question. If we are not authorized here, and it is not proper to have a steno¬ graphic report made of the proceedings of this body, then the 72 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS argument would apply with equal force, that in 1875 and these prior constitutions the question of suffrage was not discussed at all What are we here for, Mr. President? Why it has been proclaimed by the press, from the platform, from the mountains to the seaboard, that the prime purpose of this convention was to disfranchise the neg'ro. If it is morally wron^, and it is not for the best interest of the State of Alabama to do that then we oug’ht not to do it. If it is morally right, and it is to the benefit of the people of the State of Alabama, we ought to do it, and we ought to make a record of our actions, and file it in the archives of our State, so that future generations will not only see what we did, but they may know the reasons why we did it. Talk about fear. Why, never did I dream that the great State of Alabama one that has produced a Wheeler, and a Hobson, would produce a convention of men that did not have the nerve and the manhood and the bravery to stand up and proclaim to the world the reasons why they did a particular thing. Now the next reason is with lefeience to the prepetuation of eloquence. This is a most remarkable thing. Doubtless it has already occurred to the members of this conven¬ tion that nobody raises that point, except the eloquent men. No¬ body at all. There is the sweet singer from Chambers, the last; there is the eloquent gentleman from Pike--I do not know, but perhaps I would be pardoned if I would call him the lapsus-linguist of this convention—he is the next man; the next man is the good looking and sweet toned speaker from Madison, and I ask this convention and I ask this Chair, where is there a single man that is opposed to this report except those who lay claim to oratory. MR. LONG (Walker.)—May I ask a question? MR. ESPY—Why my friend you are the most eloquent man in this hall; don’t deny it. THE PRESIDENT — Will the gentleman consent for the gentleman from Walker to ask a question? MR. ESPY—Yes. MR. LONG (Walker)—I want to know if we had not better adopt the plan of Congress and let speeches be published and not spoken on the floor? MR. ESPY—Perhaps we had better do it. Indirectly Mr. President they charge that the purpose of those who advocate the majority report to be to perpetuate their eloquence, when it is a well known fact that eloquence is not handed down from genera¬ tion to generation. Why the men who live after us a quarter of a century, will never know of the eloquence that comes from these eloquent gentlemen in this hall during this convention. That is not it. Would they pardon me if I would mildly suggest to them, it is not because they do not want the eloquence perpetuated, but is it not because they do not want to see their utterances without the eloquence, placed in cold type, and read fifty years from to- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 73 clay.'' Now these are the reasons—all except that matter of ex¬ pense. I do not care to discuss that, because the expense is so nominal in this matter until I do not think there is a member of this house that could and would possibly g'ive that serious con¬ sideration. I therefore hope Mr. President, that the majority re¬ port will be adopted. MR. OATES—Mr. President, beingf in chargee of the bill, I have not insisted upon action earlier, so as to allow all gfentlemen who SC) desired to express their views upon this subject a fair op¬ portunity. Some gentlemen seem to be very much afraid of a stenographic report. Now my friends from Walker, from Madison, and from Pike, all aspiring and able young men. who doubtless expect ere long to turn up in Congress, and I would be glad to see them there and I would say they better get used to being steno- graphically reported before they go there, for everything they sac- will be reported and reported in full. Now, sir, some mistakes have been made in regard to these publications. Some gentlemen alludes to the fact that we get in The Advertiser every day full reports. Why, sir, that is a sort of test to show people, the mem¬ bers, delegates and others, what may be done. These stenographers who are desirous of obtaining the position of official stenographer have been making reports an decide and render judgment in the same manner and to the same effect as the judge of the circuit or city court or chancellor sitting as a court might do in such case. Section 23 shall be amended to read as follows: Clerks of the Circuit Courts shall be elected by the qualified electors in each county for a term of six years. Vacancies in such office shall be filled by the Circuit Judge for the unexpired term. Section 29 shall be added to read as follows: All causes that may be brought in the Circuit Court, whereof the Chan¬ cery Court has exclusive jurisdictioti, shall be transferred to the Chancery Court, and all causes that may be brought in the Chancery Court whereof the Circuit Court has exclusive jurisdiction, shall be transferred to the Chancery Court. Referred to Judiciary Committee. By Mr. Kirkland: Be it ordained that all officers hereafter elected by the people of the State of Alabama, both State and Count}', shall be elected at one and the same time, for a period of four years from the time of their election and until their successors are elected and qualified, provided that no officer so elected shall be ligible to succeed him¬ self as such officer. Referred to Committee on Executive. By Mr. Kirkland: Be it ordained by this Convention: That the Exemption LaAvs of the State of Alabama, as no^v expressed in Article 10 of the Con¬ stitution of 1875 shall be and remain the same as therein expressed, provided that the area of a homestead in the country shall em¬ brace one hundred and sixty acres and no more. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Lomax: Ordinance No. 18. MR. LOMAX—I wiW state to the convention that that is merely a readoption of the present Constitution with reference to the municipal taxation, with the Birmingham amendment added, and it might save time to dispense with the reading of it. Unless some gentleman objects we might dispense with it. There are several provisions of our present Constitution the readoption of which was demanded by the State platform of our party. A reading was called for and it was read as follows: 120 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS An ordinance limiting the power of the General Assembly as to local or special Legislation. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention assembled, That the General Assembly shall not pass local or special laws in any of the following enumerated cases, or concerning any of the following subjects, that is to say: First—Regulating the jurisdiction and duties of Justices of the Peace and of Constables. Second—For the punishment of crimes and misdemeanors. Third—Remitting fines, penalties or forfeitures. Fourth—Providing for changing the venue in civil or criminal actions. Fifth—Granting divorces. Sixth—Changing the names of persons or places, or water courses. Seventh—Authorizing the laying out, opening, altering, maintaining, or vacating roads, highways, streets, alleys, town plats, parks, cemeteries, grave yards, or public grounds not owned by the State. Eighth—Regulating or authorizing the levy, the assessment or the col¬ lection of taxes, or to give any indulgence or discharge to any assessor or collector of taxes or his sureties. Ninth—Providing for conducting elections, or designating places of voting, or changing the boundaries of wards, precincts or districts, except on the organization of new counties. Tenth—Affecting estates of deceased persons, minors, cestuis que trust or other persons under legal disabilities. Eleventh—Extending the time for the collection of taxes. Twelfth—Giving effect to invalid deeds, wills, or other instruments. Thirteenth—Refunding money legally paid into the State Treasury. Fourteenth—Releasing or extinguishing in whole or in part the indebted¬ ness, liabilities or obligations ot any corporation or person to this State, or to any municipal corporation therein. Fifteenth—Declaring any person of age or authorizing any minor to sell, lease, or to incumber his or her property, or do acts allowed only to adults not under disabilities. Sixteenth—Legalizing, except as against the State, the unauthorized or invalid act of any officer or public agent of this State or of any city. County or municipality thereof. Seventeenth—Granting to any corporation, association or individual any special or exclusive right, privilege or immunity. Eighteenth—Exempting property from taxation. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 121 Nineteenth—Locating or changing county seats. Twentieth—Restoring to citizenship persons convicted of infamous crimes. Twenty-first—Regulating the rate of interest on money. Twenty-second—Authorizing the creation, extension, enforcement, re¬ lease or impairing of aliens. Twenty-third—To regulate fencing. Twenty-fourth—Changing the law of descent or distribution. Twenty-fifth—Authorizing the adoption or legitimation of children. Twenty-sixth—To regulate limitation of civil or criminal actions. Twenty-seventh—To provide for the protection of game animals, birds and fish. Twenty-eighth—To create, increase or decrease the salary of any public officers or to authorize officers to appoint deputies. Twenty-ninth—To grant a charter to any corporation or to amend the charter of any existing corporation unless the same cannot be secured under the general law; to license companies or persons to work or operate ferries, bridges, roads of turn pikes; to declare streams navigable, and to authorize the construction of booms or dams therein, or to remove obstruction there¬ from. Thirtieth—To regulate the running at large of stock. Thirty-first—To provide a means of taking the sense of the people of any city, town, precinct, district or county, whether they wish to authorize, regulate or prohibit therein the sale or disposition of vinous, spirituous or malt liquors, or altering the liquor laws. Thirty-second—In all other cases where a general law can be made ap¬ plicable, no special or local law shall be enacted. The General Assembly shall not indirectly enact any special or local act by the repealing part of a general act, or by exempting from the operation of a general act any city, town, village, district, precinct or county; but laws repealing local or special acts may be enacted. No law shall be enacted granting powers or privileges in any case where the granting of such pow¬ ers or privileges shall have been provided for by a general law nor where the courts have jurisdiction to grant the same or to give the relief asked for. No law, except such as relates to the sale, loan or gift of vinous, spirituous or malt liquors, bridges, turnpikes, or other public roads, public buildings or improvement, fencing, running at large of stock, matters pertaining to common schools, paupers, and the regulation by counties, cities, towns, or other muni¬ cipalities of their local affairs, shall be enacted to take effect upon the approval of any other authority than the Governor or General Assembly unless other¬ wise expressly provided in this Constitution. 122 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Referred to Committee on Legislative Departments. By Mr. Lomax (Montgomery) : An Ordinance to limit the power of political or municipal corporations, to incur debts or issue bonds. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in Convention assembled, that, No political or municipal corporation in this State shall ever become in¬ debted in any manner or for any purpose (including indebtedness for street improvements to be paid out of the general funds) to an amount in the ag¬ gregate exceeding ten (10) per centum on the value of the taxable property within such corporation, to be ascertained by the last assessment for State and County taxes previous to the incurring of such indebtedness; and all bonds or obligations, in excess of such amount, given by such corporation, shall be void: Provided, That in time of war, foreign invasion or other great public calamity, on petition of a majority of the property owners, in num¬ ber and value, within the limits of such corporation, the public authorities in their discretion may incur obligations necessary for the public protec¬ tion and defense to such an amount as may be requested in such petition. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. By Mr. Lomax: Ordinance No. 19. AN ORDINANCE To re-adopt Section 7 of Article 11 of the present Constitution as amended in reference to taxation by cities, towns and municipal corporations. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled that no city, town, or other municipal corporation, other than pro¬ vided for in this article shall levy or collect a larger rate of taxation in any one year a larger rate of taxation in any one year on the propert thereof, than one half of one per centum of the value of such property as assessed by the State taxation during the preceding year; provided, that for the pay¬ ment of debts existing on the sixth day of December, 1875, and the interest thereon, an additional rate of one per centum may be collected, to be applied exclusively to such indebtedness; and provided, this section shall not apply to the city of Mobile, which city may levy a tax not to exceed the rate of three-fourths of one per centum to pay expenses of the city government, and may also levy a tax not to exceed the rate of three-fourths of one per cent to pay the indebtedness of said city, existing on the sixth day of December, 1875, and the interest thereon. And provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the city of Birmingham, which city may levy and collect a tax not to exceed one half of one per centum in addition to the tax of one half of one per centum as hereinabove allowed to be levied and collected, such special tax to be ap¬ plied exclusively to the payment of interest on the bonds of the city of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 123 Birmingham heretofore issued in pursuance of law, and for a sinking fund to pay off said bonds at the maturity thereof. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. By Mr, Lomax: Ordinance No. 20: An Ordinance to re-adopt with certain changes therein set out, certain sec¬ tions of the present Constitution in reference to taxation, said sec¬ tions being part of Article 11 of the present Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention assembled, That, Article; Taxation Section 1, All taxes levied on property in this State shall be assessed in exact proportion to the value of such property; Provided, however, the Gen¬ eral Assembly may levy a poll tax, not to exceed - dollars on each poll, which shall be applied exclusively in aid of the public school fund in the county so paying the same. Sec, 2. No power to levy taxes shall be delegated to individuals or private corporations. Sec. 3. After the ratification of this Constitution, no debt shall be cre¬ ated against, or incurred by this Slate, or its authority, except to repel in¬ vasion or to suppress insurrection, and then only by a concurrence of two- thirds of the members of each House of the General Assembly, and the vote shall be taken by the yeas and nays and entered on the Journal; and any act creating or incurring any new debt against this State, except as herein pro¬ vided for, shall be absolutely void; Provided, the Governor may be author¬ ized to negotiate temporary loans, never to exceed $100,000, to meet deficien¬ cies in the Treasury; and until the same is paid, no new loan shall be ne¬ gotiated; Provided, further, that this Section shall not be construed as to prevent the issuance of bonds in adjustment of existing State indebtedness, nor to the funding of any bonds or other indebtedness of this State out¬ standing at the time of the ratification of this Constitution. Sec. 4. The General Assembly shall not have the power to levy in any one year, a greater rate of taxation than three-fourths of 1 per centum on the value of the taxable property within this State. Sec. 5. No county in this State shall be authorized to levy a larger rate of taxation in any one year, on the value of the taxable property therein, than one-half of 1 per centum. Provided that to pay debts existing on the 6th day of December, 1875, an additional rate of one-fourth of 1 per centum may be levied and collected, which shall be exclusively appropriated to the pay¬ ment of such debt or the interest thereon. Provided, further, that to pay any debt or liability now existing against any county, incurred for the erection of the necessary public buildings, or other ordinary county purposes, or that may hereafter be created, for the erection of necessary public buildings, or bridges, any county may levy and collect such special taxes as may have been or may 124 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS hereafter be authorized by law, which taxes so levied and collected shall be applied exclusively to the purposes for which the same were so levied and collected. Sec. 6. The property of private corporations, associations and individuals of this State shall forever be taxed the same rate; Provided, this section shall not apply to institutions or enterprises devoted exclusively to religious, educa¬ tional or charitable purposes. Referred to the Committee on Taxation. By Mr. Lomax: ORDINANCE 21: AN ORDINANCE To readopt the provisions of Article 10 of the Constitution of 1875 relating to exemptions. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention assembled that ARTICLE Exempted Property. Section 1. The personal property of any resident of this State to the value of one thousand dollars, to be selected by such resident, shall be ex¬ empted from sale on execution, or other process of any court, issued for the collection of any debt contracted since the 13th day of July, 1868, or after the ratification of this Constitution. Sec. 2. Every homestead not exceeding eighty acres and the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, to be selected by the owner thereof, and not in any city, town or village, or in lieu thereof at the option of the owner, and lot in the city, town or village, with the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, owned and occupied by any resident of this State, and not exceeding the value of two thousand dollars, shall be exempted from sale on execution or any other process from a court for any debt contracted since the 13th day of July, 1868, or after the ratification of this Constitution. Such exemption, how¬ ever, shall not extend to any mortgage lawfully obtained, but such mortgage or other alienation of such homestead by the owner thereof, if a married man, shall not be valid without the voluntary signature and assent of the wife to the same. Sec. 3. The homestead of the family after the death of the owner there¬ of, shall be exempt from the payment of any debts contracted since the 18th day of July one thousand, eight hundred and sixty-eight, or after the rati¬ fication of this Constitution, in all cases, during the minority of the children. Sec. 4. The provisions of Sections one and two of this Article shall not be so construed as to prevent a laborer's lien for work done and per¬ formed for the person claiming such exemption, or a mechanic's lien for work done on the premises. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 125 Sec. 5. If the owner of the homestead die, leaving a widow, but no children, such homestead shall be exempt, and the rents and profits thereof shall enure to her benefit. Sec. 6. The real and personal property of any female in this State, ac¬ quired before marriage, and all property, real and personal, to which she may afterwards be entitled by gift, grant, inheritance, or device, shall be and remain the separate estate and property of such female, and shall not be liable for any debts, obligations and engagements of her husband, and may be devised or bequeathed by her, the same as if she were a femme sole. Sec. 7. The right of exemptions hereinbefore secured may be waived by an instrument in writing and when such waiver relates to realty, the instru¬ ment must be signed by both the husband and the wife, and attested by one witness. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Lomax: Resolution No. 30. Resolved, That in any article adopted by the Committee on Corporations and reported to this Convention the provisions of the present Constitution as to the powers of corporations shall not be enlarg-ed in any respect or particular. Referred to Committee on Corporations. By Mr. Lomax: AN ORDINANCE Relating to Suffrage and Elections. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled. That Article -. Suffrage and Elections. Section 1. Every male citizen of the United States and every male per¬ son of foreign birth who may have legally declared his intention to become a citizen of the United States before he offers to vote, who is 21 years old, or upwards, possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people, except as hereinafter provided: First—He shall have resided in the State for two years and in the county for one year and in the precinct or ward for three months next preceding the election at which he offers to vote, provided that removal from one precinct or ward to another in the same county shall not deprive any person of the right to vote in the precinct or ward from which he has removed until three months after such removal. Second—He shall not have been convicted of treason, embezzlement of public funds, embezzlement, false pretenses, malfeasance in office, larceny, 126 OFFIOAI, PROCEEmNGS t^tbery or other ctimts pomshftble by imprisonment in the penitentiary un¬ less his dkabiUties have been removed according to law and he must not be an idiot or insane person. Third—He xn$N»t have paid on or before the Ist day of January of the year in which he shall offer to vote a poll tax of three ((3) dollars per year for the two years next preceding the election at which he offers to vote and must produce to the officers of registration hereinafter provided the receipt of the tax collector showing that he has fiaid said taxes except that in the general election in August, 1902, he shall be required to show such receipt for only one year, and provided further that such tax shall be used in aid of the common schools and for no other purpose, and such tax shall be a lien only upon taxable property, and no criminal proceedings shall be allowed to enforce its collection. Fourth—He shall be able to read any section of the Constitution of this State, or he shall be able to understand the same when read to him, or give a reasonable interpretation thereof. Fifth—He shall have been duly registered under the Constitution and laws of this State; Provided that any male citizen who served in the Con¬ federate or Union armies or navy in the war between the States or in the army of the United States, in the Indian wars, the war with Barbrars States, the War of 1812, the War with Mexico, or the War with Spain or who is a descendant of any such soldier of the above named wars or of the war of the Revolution and who has paid his poll tax hereinabove imposed who is now entitled to vote or shall become of age within seven (7) years after the ratification of this Constitution, and who has not been convicted of the crimes hereinabove specified and who is not insane or idiotic shall have the right to register and vote in any election in this State. Sec. 2. There is hereby created ip every voting precinct in this State a Board of Registrars of Election which shall consist of three qualified electors who are bona fide residents of such precincts and who shall be charged with the duty of registering all voters in accordance with this Constitution and the law made in persuance thereof who shall hold their office for the term of four years and until their successors are elected and qualified and who shall be ineligible as their own successors and who shall while a mem¬ ber of such board be eligible to any office. For the first election held after the ratification of this Constitution said Board of Registrars shall be ap¬ pointed by the Governor and at said election the members of said Boards shall be elected by the qualified voters of each election precinct for the terms and under the conditions hereinabove set out provided that no registrar appointed by the Governor shall be eligible for election to such Board at such dection. Registrars shall take the official oath prescribed by this Con¬ stitution. See. 3. No person shall be registered who is not a qualified elector under the preceding sections of this article of the Constitution and until he shall have taken an oath or affirmation showing his qualifications as a voter In the precinct and county in wbiph he applies for registration and to answer all questions touching his right to vote and his antecedents sp far as CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 127 they relate to his right to vote and as to his residence prior to his citizen¬ ship in said precinct and to support the Constitution of the United States and of this State. And the General Assembly shall pass laws making the wilful and corrupt taking of such oath perjury. Sec. 4. After the lapse of seven years from the first registration under this Article of the Constitution a new registration shall be made and the General Assembly shall provide for the making of a permanent record of such registration, and all persons so registered shall forever thereafter have the right to vote in all elections by the people in this State unless disqualified under the second sub-division of Section 1 of this Article: Provided such person shall have paid his poll tax as above required, and provided that the General Assembly shall by law provide for the registration of persons becoming entitled to vote from year to year before and after such permanent record of registration. Sec. 5. Electors in municipal elections shall possess all the qualifica¬ tions herein prescribed and such additional qualifications as may be pro¬ vided by law. Sec. 6. Suitable remedies by appeal or otherwise shall be provided by law to correct illegal or improper registration and to secure the registration of those who may be illegally or improperly denied the same by said Boards of Registrars of Election. Sec. 7. All qualified electors and no others shall be eligible to office except as otherwise provided in this Constitution. Sec. 8. Electors shall not be registered within six months next before any election at which they may offer to vote: But appeals may be heard and determined, and revision take place at any time prior to the election; and no person who, in respect to age and residence, would become entitled to vote within said four months, shall be excluded from registration on ac¬ count of his want of qualification in these respects at the time of registra¬ tion. Sec. 9. All elections by the people shall be by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. Sec. 10. Electors shall, in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, or while going to, or returning therefrom. Sec. 11. The General Assembly shall pass laws in accordance with this Constitution to regulate and govern registration and elections in this State, and such laws shall be uniform throughout this State. Sec. 12. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass adequate laws giving protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxicating liquors at all elections. Sec. 13. The General Assembly shall enact laws to secure fairness in party primary elections, conventions or other methods of naming party can¬ didates. 128 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 14. Returns of elections for all civil officers who are to be com¬ missioned by the Governor, except Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer and Attorney General and for members of the General Assembly shall be made to the Secretary of State. By Mr. Lomax; MR. LOMAX—I ask leave to amend the fifth sub-division of the article describing the qualifications of voters, the word “Navy” and the word “Army.” PRESIDENT—Unless objection, leave will be granted. Leave granted. MR. LOMAX—I desire to say it is patent and apparent, there is nothing original in that, but that it is an attempted combination of several well discussed plans to meet our situation here. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. By Mr. Macdonald. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention As¬ sembled, That Section 22 of Article IV, of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: Section 22. No amendment to bills and no substitute there¬ for, shall be adopted except by a majority of the House wherein the same is offered taken by yeas and nays, and such amendment or substitute shall be recorded in full on the Journal of the House wherein the same is adopted, together with the names of those voting for or against such amendment or substitute. And no amendment to bills by one House shall be concurred in by the other except by a majority vote thereof, taken by yeas and nays, and such amendment so concurred in, together with the names of those voting for and against shall be recorded in full in the Journal of said House, and report of Conference Committees shall, in like manner, be recorded on the journals of each House. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. By Mr. Macdonald: Be it ordained, by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 19 of Article IV, of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: Section 19. No law shall be passed except by bill, and every bill shall be copied verbatim on the Journal of the House in which it is introduced before it is referred to any committee; and no bill shall be so altered or amended on its passage through either House as to change its original purpose. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. By Mr. Macdonald: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 129 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, that Article eight of the Constitution shall be amended so as to read as follows: Suffrage and Elections. Section 1. Every male citizen of the United States, who is over the age of 21 years, possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector, and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people, except as here¬ inafter provided. First—He shall have resided in the State at least one year immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote. Second—He shall have resided in the county for three months and in the precinct or ward for thirty days preceding the election at which he offers to vote; Provided, that the General Assembly may prescribe a longer or shorter residence in any precinct or in any ward in any incorporated city or town having a population of more than 5,000 inhabitants, but in no case to exceed three months and provided, that no soldier, sailor or marine, in the military or naval service of the United States shall acquire residence by be¬ ing stationed in this State. Third—He must be able to read and write in the English language understandingly and intelligently. Fourth—He must have paid all poll taxes assessed against him after the adoption of this Constitution, which poll tax must be paid at least six months before the election at which he offers to vote. Fifth—He must be the owner, in his own right, of real estate of the value of at least $500, and upon which he has been assessed to that amount; Provided, however, that the foregoing qualifications, numbered third and fifth, shall not apply to any resident of this State who was in the military or naval service of the United States of 1812, the war between the United States and Mexico, or who was in the military or naval service on either side of the late war between the States, otherwise known as the Civil War, or to the lineal descendants of such persons, or to persons related to the fourth degree of consanguinity to such persons, or to any person who is now a naturalized citizen of this State, or to the lineal descendants of a naturalized citizen who was entitled to vote. And provided further, that the exemptions to the following qualifications numbered third and fifth shall expire after twenty-one years from the adoption of this constitution. Sec. 2. All elections by the people shall be by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. Sec. 3. The following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote, or hold office: First—Those who shall have been convicted of treason, embezzlement of public funds, malfeasance in ofifce, larceny, bribery, or other crime pun¬ ishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. Second—Those who are idiots or insane. 130 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec» 4. Electors shall in all cases, except treason, felony, or breach of the peace be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, or while going to or returning therefrom. Sec. 5. The General Assembly shall pass laws not inconsistant with this constitution, to regulate and govern elections in this State and all such laws shall be uniform throughout the State. The General Assembly may, when necessary, provide by law for the registration of electors throughout the State, or any incorporated city or town thereof, and when it is so pro¬ vided, no person shall vote at any election unless he shall have registered as required by law. Sec. 6. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass adequate laws, giving protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxicat¬ ing liquors at all elections. Sec. 7. Returns of elections for all civil officers who are to be com¬ missioned by the Governor, except the Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer and Attorney General, and for members of the General Assembly, shall be made to the Secretary of State. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. By Malone: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled : That Section 2 of Article 2 of the present Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: '‘The boundaries of the several counties of this State, as heretofore established by law, are hereby ratified and confirmed. The General Assembly may, by a vote of two-thirds of both houses thereof, arrange and designate boun¬ daries for the several counties of this State, which boundaries shall not be altered except by a like vote; but no new county shall be hereafter formed of less extent than four hundred and fifty square miles, and no existing county shall be reduced to less ex¬ tent than four hundred and fifty square miles; and no new county shall be formed which does not contain a sufficient number of in¬ habitants to entitle it to one representative, under the ratio of representation existing at the time of its formation, and leave the county or counties from which it is taken with the required number of inhabitants entitling such county or counties to separate repre¬ sentation. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. By Mr. Malone: Be it resolved: First—That the new Constitution shall contain a provision permitting each separate township to assess and collect a special CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 131 school tax of not exceeding 25 cents on the hundred dollars of assessed valuation of such township. Second—That such sum as shall be so raised shall be used in connection with the amount due such township from the general fund of the State and shall not be used for other purposes than the actual expenses of the schools of such township for the scholas¬ tic year for which same shall have been raised. Third—That the amount so raised from the property of per¬ sons of African descent shall be used for separate schools for children of African descent and only such sum. Fourth—That such election shall be under the State laws and at an election for such purposes only. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Malone: Be it resolved. That the new Constitution shall contain a provision for the examination by a competent public official of the financial condition of all State and private banks doing business in this State and for the publication of same. Banks and Banking. By Mr. Miller (Marengo) : Be it ordained, That: (1) The boundaries of this State are established and declared to be as follows: that is to say: Beginning at the point where the thiry-first degree of north latitude crosses the Perdido River, thence east to the western boundary line of the State of Georgia; thence along said line to the southern boundary line of the State of Tennessee; crossing the Tennessee River, and on to the second intersection of said river by said line; thence up said river to the mouth of Big Bear Creek; thence by a direct line to the northwest corner of Washington County, in this State, as originally formed; thence southerly along the line of the State of Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico; thence eastwardly including all islands within six leagues of the shore to the Perdido River; thence up said river to the beginning. (2) The boundaries of the several counties of this State, as heretofore established by law, are hereby ratified and confirmed. The General Assembly may, by a vote of two-thirds of both houses thereof, arrange and designate boundaries for the several counties of this State, which boundaries shall not be altered, except by a like vote; but no new county shall be hereafter formed of less extent than six hundred square miles, and no existing county shall be reduced to less extent than six hundred square miles; and no new county shall be formed which does not contain a sufficient number of inhabitants to entitle it to one representative, under the ratio 132 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of repfesentation existing^ at the time of its formation, and leave the county or counties from which it is taken with the required number of inhabitants entitling^ such county to separate repre¬ sentation. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. By Mr. Miller (Wilcox) : Be it resolved by this Convention, That the formation of school districts be encouraged in furtherance of our public school system, and that trustees for the management of such schools be elected by the qualified electors of such district, and that the au¬ thority to raise funds for the support of such schools and for the building of school houses be delegated to such trustees at the op¬ tion of the qualified voters of the district; and that such a system of district schools be established under well-guarded limitations as to taxation as will meet the inhibitions of the present constitu¬ tion which are set out in case of Schultes vs. Eberly in 82 Ala., page 242. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Mulkey (Geneva) ; Ordinance 28, by Mr. Mulkey. To amend Section 26, Article V of Constitution. ' Relates to election of Sheriff and removal from office. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 26, Article V of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows; A sheriff shall be elected in each county by the qualified elec¬ tors thereof, who shall hold office for the term of four years, un¬ less sooner removed, and shall be inelligible to such office as his own successor; provided, that any sheriff who suffers or permits any prisoner in his charge or custody to be taken therefrom at the hand of a mob, shall, upon satisfactory evidence thereof, being furnished the Governor, be at once removed from office. Vacancies in the office of sheriff shall be filled by the Governor, as in other cases; and the person appointed shall continue in the office until the next general election in its county for sheriff, as provided by law. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. By Mr. Murphree (Pike): Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that, Section 2, Article 17, be and is hereby amended so as to read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 133 No Constitutional Convention shall hereafter be held or dele¬ gates elected thereto, for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State, until after the question of Convention or no Convention, shall be first submitted to a vote of all the elec¬ tors of the State and approved by a majority of those voting: at said election. Sec. 3. The General Assembly hereafter calling: a Constitu¬ tional Convention, shall set forth in the act the purpose of the call, by naming: the chang:es, amendments and additions to the then existing: Constitution desired to be made which shall be published in the newspapers of the principal cities of the State within twenty days after the passag:e of the act. Sec. 4. Constitutional Conventions hereafter had shall be composed of one hundred deleg:ates and no more, the counties hav¬ ing: l^he same representation that they have in the House of the General Assembly. Referred to Committee on Amending: Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous, etc. By Mr. Murphree: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that, Section 5, Article 13, be and is hereby amended so as to read as follows: The income arising: from the 16th Section Trust Fund, the surplus revenue fund, until it is called by the United States g:ov- ernment, and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this Article, with such other moneys, to be not less that one hundred thousand dollars per annum, as the General Assembly shall pro¬ vide by taxation or otherwise, should be a]:)plied to the support and maintenance of the public schools and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase from time to time, the public school fund, as the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State will admit, the school fund, from whatever source de¬ rived, shall be divided between the children of the white and ne- g:ro races in proportion to the amount of State tax paid by each race. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Murphree: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention assem¬ bled, that: Section 5, Article 4, be amended so as to read as follows: The General Assembly shall meet biannually, at the capital in the Senate Chamber and in the Hall of the House of Represen- 134 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tatives, except in cases of destruction of the capitol or epidemics when the Governor may convene them at such place in the State as he may deem best, on the day specified in this constitution, or on such other day as may be prescribed by law, and shall not re¬ main in session long’er than sixty days at the first session held under this constitution, nor longer than fifty days at any subse¬ quent session. (The first thirty days of which shall be set apart for the en¬ actment of general laws and the remainder of the session for local legislation.) Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. By Mr. Murphree: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention assem¬ bled, That Section 2, Article 10, be and is hereby amended so as to read as follows: One hundred and sixty acres of land and no more, and the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, it being selected by the own¬ er for a homestead, and not in any city, town, or village or in lieu thereof, at the option of the owner, any lot in a city, town or vil¬ lage, with the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, owned and occupied by any resident of this State, and not exceeding the value of two thousand dollars, shall be exempt from sale on execution, or other process of any court, issued for the collection of any debt contracted after the ratification of the Constitution of 1875. Such exemption, however, shall not extend to any mortgage lawfully obtained, but such mortgage or other alienation of such homestead by the owner thereof, if a married man, shall not be valid with¬ out the voluntary signature and assent of the wife to the same. And the foregoing exemptions shall remain and shall not be in¬ creased or diminished by the General Assembly or by the de¬ cision of any couft of this State. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Oates (Montgomery) : MR. OATES — I have no ordinance or proposition of my own to offer, but our distinguished senior Senator has manifested such interest in this Convention and its proceedings, that he has sent, and I presume most of the delegates have seen it, a printed proposition for the Article on Suffrage in the new Constitution, and I also hold in my hand a brief in his handwriting, sent to me with citation of authorities to sustain the legality of the positions he assumes, I do not care for it to be read, but I desire that it be printed in the proceedings and referred to the Committee on Franchises and Elections, both documents. THE PRESIDENT—Unless there be objection the ordinance will be referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 135 MR. OATES — To be printed in the proceedings as thougfh read. I desire that delegates may see it. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will direct that it be printed with the general proceedings of the Convention. Ordinance by Mr. Oates, proposed by Senator Morgan. QUALIFICATION OF VOTERS Article - Section L To entitle any person to vote at any election for any public officer of the State, or of any county, district, precinct or municipality created by law, he shall be a male citizen of the United States and shall have attained the age of 21 years; and He shall have been registered as a voter, under the provisions of this Constitution, in the precinct in which he votes; and shall have resided in such precinct at least one year, and in the county at least two years, and in the State at least three years next before the date of filing his application to become a registered voter, and next before the date of the election at which he offers to vote; and His application to be registered as a voter shall have been presented by him and acted upon and his qualification and fitness to be a voter shall have been ascertained and determined by a lawful tribunal having jurisdiction of the registration of voters. Sec. 2. Persons who are not citizens of the United States, or who are not descended from a father and mother belonging to the white race, shall not be eligible to any office under the Constitution and laws of Alabama. Sec. 3. The following persons shall not be permitted to vote, or to register as voters, while their disabilities continue, namely: Those who are idiots or insane: or those who shall have been convicted of giving or receiv¬ ing a bribe to influence voters or any election officer, with reference to any election; or those who have been convicted of any offense punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary^ unless their disabilities have been removed according to law. Sec. 4. The tribunal charged with the duty of making an official regis¬ tration of voters shall have jurisdiction to receive, examine and determine the validity and regularity of applications, and to ascertain and decide upon the qualifications and fitness, as voters, of all applicants for registration, and to admit them to registration, or reject them. It shall have power to examine applicants for registration, on oath, touching their qualification to become voters, and to reject such as decline such examination. It shall have power to summon witnesses, and to examine them on oath, and to compel their attendance. 136 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS It shall have power to preserve order at its sittings and the powers to punish persons for contempt, that are conferred by law upon the Circuit Courts. The members of such tribunal shall be liable to removal from office by order of the Governor for any official misconduct, or for inefficiency in the performance of their official duties; and shall be personally liable to punishment by indictment, for corruption in office; but the integrity and honesty of their decisions shall not be called in question in any civil action brought against them, growing out of any decision they have made upon any application for registration; and, in the consideration and determination of any question as to the qualification and fitness of any applicant for regis¬ tration such tribunals shall have exclusive jurisdiction, except that appeals may be taken to the Circuit Courts from their decisions, where the same may be confirmed, or reversed, or annulled; and final judgment shall be rendered on the qualification of the applicant to be registered as a voter. Sec. 5. The qualification and membership of the Boards of Registrars for the voting precincts, the method of constituting the same, and their regulation, and other organic provisions concerning such boards are set forth in the following schedule to this article, which may be, at any time, and in any part thereof, altered, amended or repealed by the vote, taken by ayes and nays, of two-thirds of a quorum of each house of the General Assembly: SCHEDULE TO ARTICLE- Section 1. A board of registrars is hereby created for each election precinct of each county as it is or shall be established by law, to consist of three worthy and capable persons having the qualifications of voters, who shall be appointed by the court of County Commissioners of each county, at a session of said court to be held on the first Tuesday in February, 1902. If any of said courts shall fail, for any cause, to appoint a board of regis¬ trars for any precinct, on that day, a vacancy shall exist in such board, as a whole, or in part; or, if any person so appointed shall fail to qualify as such registrar within fifteen days after such appointment his office shall be vacant, and in any such cases the vacancy shall be filled by appointment of the Governor. If any such vacancy is not filed by the appointment and qualification of the appointee on or before the 4th day of March, 1902, the Judge of Probate of the county shall fill the same by appointment. Sec. 2. Laws shall be enacted for the punishment of persons who, with¬ out just excuse, refuse, after election or appointment to the office of regis¬ trar, to qualify and perform the duties of such office. Sec. 3. The Boards of Registrars appointed under Section 1 of this schedule shall be appointed for the term of four years, from March 4th, 1902, to March 4th, 1906. The succeeding boards shall each be elected for terms of four years, to begin and end on the 4th days of the month of March. No person who has qualified as a member of the Board of Registrars shall be eligible to election or appointment to any other office during the term for which he was chosen or for two years after such term expires. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 137 No resignation of any member of the Board of Registrars shall be ef¬ fectual until the same is accepted by the Governor, All vacancies in the membership of Boards of Registrars, whether the members are elected or appointed, shall be filled by appointment of the Gov¬ ernor, within thirty days after the office has become vacant, and, if no one is appointed and qualified to fill such vacancy within that time, the vacancy shall be filled by appointment, to be made by the Judge of Probate of the county in which the vacancy occurs. Sec. 4. On the first Monday in January, 1905, an election shall be held in each precinct in each county of the State, for members of a Board of Registrars, and every four years thereafter such election shall be held on the same day of the month of January. Such elections shall be conducted in the manner prescribed by law for the election of judges of probate, and the returns of election shall be made, certified and recorded or kept in the same manner. Only registered voters of the precincts in which they reside shall vote at such elections and the persons elected shall be registered voters in such precincts. No person shall be elected to the office of registrar of voters who does not receive a majority of all the votes cast at such election, and each ballot shall contain the names of three persons voted for; or the same shall be rejected. If, for any cause, the election of a board of registrars, or any member thereof, shall fail, at the time herein designated, a vacancy shall exist in the office which, shall be filled in the manner provided in section 3 of this schedule. In case of a tie vote in such election, it shall be decided by the casting vote of the judge of probate, in each case, but no election of regis¬ trars of voters shall be contested, except in the manner and for the causes specially provided by statute. Sec. 5. Before entering upon the performance of the duties of his of¬ fice, each registrar of voters shall take and subscribe the following oath of office: “I (giving the name) do solemnly swear (or affirm), in the presence of Almighty God, that I will support the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Alabama; that I will honestly and truly, according to the best of my ability, discharge the duties of the office of registrar of voters on which I am about to enter, without fear, favor, reward, or the hope there- of.^^ Which oath shall be administered by any person lawfully authorized to administer oaths, and dated and signed by the affiant, and filed in the office of the probate judge of the county. Sec. 6. Commissions shall be issued by the judge of probate to regis¬ trars of voters elected or appointed to such offices, except in cases of appoint¬ ment by the Governor, who shall issue commissions to his appointees; and the person having the oldest commission shall be chairman of the board of which he is a member. 138 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec, 7. The chairman of the board of registrars of voters for each pre¬ cinct shall be the custodian of all record books and papers thereof. He shall keep a book of registration, in which shall be recorded the names of all persons who apply to be registered as voters, and of all persons who are registered as voters by the vote of the board, or a majority thereof, with a statement of the age and place of nativity of such registered voter. Each list shall be kept separately, in the same book, arranged in alphabetical order, and each name shall be numbered in the margin thereof, which shall correspond with the number endorsed on the application, which shall also be endorsed as “approved” or “rejected,” as the case may be, and dated and signed by the chairman of the board of registrars. Sec. 8. The General Assembly shall provide by law for such other duties as shall be performed by the boards of registrars in connection with their office, and may alter, amend or repeal any part of the duties herein designated, in the manner prescribed in article of this constitution; and shall provide just compensation to the members of the board of registrars of voters for their official services. Sec. 9. Application for registration as a voter shall be signed by the ap¬ plicant and presented by him, in person, to the board of registrars at their regular meetings held as required by law. If the applicant cannot write his name, it shall be identified by his mark, and attested by a witness. The application shall state the place of nativity and the age of the applicant; his citizenship, whether by birth or process of naturalization; his residence and the years in or during which he has had his residence in the State and the county and precinct in which he claims the right to register as a voter, and his occupation, or that he is physically disqualified from pursuing a business, occupation or calling. If he is a citizen by naturalization, he shall state when, where and in what courts he was naturalized, and, if it is required by the Board of Regis¬ trars, he shall produce record evidence of his admission to citizenship of the United States. If the application is rejected, it shall be the basis of any further pro¬ ceeding in any court in which such decision is reviewed or is sought to be reversed, that may be provided by law; and the applicant shall be required by such court to prove the statements in his application and such other facts as shall entitle him to be registered as a voter, and that he is a man of a good moral character and is informed as to the principles of the United States and is attached to the same. No appeal from the decision of the Board of Registrars, rejecting an application for registration, nor any proceeding in the nature of a review or new trial thereof, shall be triable in any court or by any tribunal, unless such appeal is taken, or such proceeding is instituted within thirty d^ys after such decision is made and entered of record by the Board of Registrars; and no applicant for registration whose application has been rejected, shall be entitled to vote until he is registered as a voter by order of the Circuit Court of the county in which his application was rejected. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 139 On the death of any registered voter, or his removal from the voting precinct in which he is registered, his resignation shall be cancelled on the list of registered voters, of such precinct. A registration may be canceled by the Board of Registrars for the fraud or perjury of the applicant in ob¬ taining the same. No vote shall be rejected by the managers of any election for any cause of disqualification that existed at the time of the registration of the voter, but his identity shall be proven if his vote is challenged on the ground that the voter is not the same person whose name is on the list of registered voters. The Legislature may provide laws for the exclusion of a registered voter from the privilege of voting fct any cause that may occur after the date of his registration. Senator Morgi-an's brief was ordered printed and is as follows: The right of a State to prescribe the qualifications for office is absolute and exclusive and does not depend upon its right to prescribe the qualifica¬ tion of voters. Women are not voters in Alabama, yet they hold office under the State and Federal governments. Men of lawful age are entitled as a class of population, to become voters, or to hold offices, while women, who are excluded, as a class, from voting, are entitled to hold office. These are simply class distinctions, like those of race and color. Such class distinctions based upon race or color, are forbidden by the 14th and 15th amendments as to the right to vote, but are not forbidden as to the right to hold office. If the Constitution of Alabama should prescribe that no negro woman should hold office under the State, it would be vain if one should attempt to sustain her right on the ground that her “right to vote’' is protected by the 14th and 15th Amendments, because she is a negro woman, includes the right to hold office, as an “immunity" or “privilege," or as a right of “equal protection under the laws"; because she has not and never could have the right to vote under the laws of Alabama, or of the United States. There is, therefore, no predicate for such a contention. Besides, “the right to vote" is expressly confined to the male inhabitants of such State, being 21 years of age," both by the 14th and 15th Amendments, and it is that right, confined to those persons, that is protected against denial or abridge¬ ment, in the 15th Amendment, or against abridgement in the 14th Amend¬ ment, and only that right. The right to vote is separated from all other rights, in both amend¬ ments and is protected against abridgement or denial on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude, and this is as far as their protec¬ tion extends. 140 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS There is no race protection as to any “privileges or immunities of citi¬ zens of the United States/' except with reference to the right to vote and then is limited to negro men. So, in considering the right of a person to hold office in a State, the question of the race, or color, or previous condition of servitude of such person is not one that the State is prohibited from including in the qualifica¬ tions for office. Second—The capacity or qualification of a person to hold office under a State, does not depend alone upon “citizenship of the United States." That may or may not be an essential qualification for office, but even that is not indispensable; for Congress, which is expressly bound by the 15th Amend¬ ment, constantly makes appropriations to pay salaries for official services to persons who are not citizens of the United States. It is very clear that mere “citizenship of the United States" does not entitle any one to claim or demand office in a State. The absence of citizenship may debar a person from the right to hold office, but its existence does not give that right, and the question is one that only the State can decide. Congress has no power to decide. Third—“The privileges and immunities" of citizens of the United States (except as to voting, perhaps) are personal rights of life, liberty, religion and the equal protection of the law, and the like, and are not political privi¬ leges to be conferred by the Government of the State, such as holding of¬ fices of honor, or profit, or commissions, or public agencies: nor are they political immunities against being refused such offices, honors, or agencies. Duncan vs. Missouri, 152 U. S., 377; McKane vs. Dunston, 153 U. S., 634; Miner vs. Hoppersitt, 21 Wall, 162; Bradwell vs. The State, 16 Wall., 130; in re Belva Lockwood, 154 U. S., 116; Giozza vs. Tiernan, 148 U. S., 657, and cases there cited. These cases show that the 14th and 15th Amendments confer no “privi¬ leges or immunities," that did not belong to citizens of the United States, where they were ordained, and that those privileges and immunities are only such as belong to “citizens of the United States," wherever they re¬ side, under the laws of the United States, and not under the municipal laws of the several States. The rule for construing the language of the Consti¬ tution is clearly stated in Lake Company vs. Rollins, 130 U. S. 657. The right of a State to prescribe the qualifications of officers of the State government, is not; in the least, controlled or limited by questions of “the right to vote," or by “the privileges or immunities of citizens of other States," or “of the United States," or by class questions, or race ques¬ tions. The right to prescribe the qualifications for office in the States, are not among “the powers delegates to the United States by the Constitution," nor among those “prohibited by it to the States;" but they are among those that “are reserved to the State respectively." Clement vs. Kelsey, 121 U. S. 242. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 141 McElvaine vs. Brush, 142 U. S. ISS. Miller vs. Texas, 153 U. S. 535. Thorington vs. Montgomery, 147 U. S. 490. Re Sawyer 124 U. S. 200. O^Neil vs. Vermont, 143 U. S. 323. The above cited cases show that only a few of the rights mentioned in the bill of rights, as belonging to the people, are made obligatory on the States by the Constitution. Offices are not contracts, under the constitution. Office is “a privilege revocable by the sovereignty at will."' Crenshaw vs. U. S. 134 U. S., 99. Hall vs. Wisconsin, 103 U. S. S. Mayor of N. Y. vs. Milne, 11 Peters 102. Burlier vs. Conoly 113 U. S. 27. The Constitution of the United States while it imposes qualifications of age and residence on Representatives and Senators in Congress, leaves it to the States to fix the qualifications of voters for both classes of these officers, and is silent as to the qualifications of electors for President and Vice-President, and as to the qualification or designation, of those who may choose electors. These are very distinct and important admissions of the sovereign right of the States to provide by law for the regulation of the right to vote for such officers, whose official powers can be exercised no¬ where else than in Congress or in the election of President and Vice-Presi¬ dent of the United States. These provisions are based on the fundamental principle, that the sovereign power of the United States resides in the peo¬ ple of the State; and that it is only through the State laws that such powers can be exerted. It required the amendment of the Constitution of the United States to give Congress the right to impose the restriction on the States, in respect of negro suffrage. The States had that unquestionable power until these changes were made in the Federal Constitution, through their ratification. These changes related only to the security of negro men, citizens of the United States, 21 years of age, in respect of their “right to vote,’' and not in relation to any other political right, such as the right to hold office. So that the rights of the States remained untouched and unaffected as to all other powers that they possessed. These amendments placed the power of the States to pro¬ hibit such negro men from voting among the enumerated powers, that are forbidden to the States; but did not place the power to fix the qualification of office holders in that class. All the provisions of the Constitution of the United States were made supreme, as parts of the Constitutions of the several States, by their ratification, and nothing in that instrument relates 142 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS to the qualifications of persons to hold office under the State Governments. They are among the powers expressly reserved to the States in the ninth and tenth amendments. Even in choosing electors, which officers were created by the Consti¬ tution of the United States, the legislatures are given the widest discretion in the manner of their election, which includes the qualification of voters; and the only restriction on the power of choosing, is that which relates to voters, in the 14th and 15th amendments. There are no restrictions or pro¬ visions relating to the qualifications of electors except that no Senator or Representative in Congress shall be an elector; which is a most significant proof that the qualifications of all Slate officers should be fixed with ref¬ erence to services to be performed by the officers for the States, respec¬ tively, and not for the United States, and can only be prescribed by the States. In the case of McPherson vs. Blackler, 146 U. S., page 35, the Supreme Court of the United States, hold that a Presidential elector is a State of¬ ficer, and can only be appointed by State authorities. They say, amongst other able statements of the law, that “In short, the appointment and mode of appointment belong exclusively to the States under the Constitution of the United States.’^ In the fourteenth amendment, which is examined by the court in this case, there is a penalty fixed on the States for the denial, or abridgement, of the right of a “voter” at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, and in the fifteenth amendment, this penalty is changed to an absolute prohibition with reference to voters of the negro race. To hold that these restrictions on the power of the States as to negro voters, confer upon the negroes the power, or the right, to hold office in the States, and is a guaranty of that right, is equally to provide for and guarantee the right of the negro voter to hold any office under the United States; for, the fifteenth amendment binds the United States, as much as it binds the States. Logically, the result of this method of interpretation is that the fif¬ teenth amendment grants and secures to a negro voter the constitutional right to occupy the office of President or Vice-President, if the electors should choose him for either place. A rational conclusion is that the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments have no reference to qualifications for office, but only to the qualifications of male negro citizens of the United States twenty-one years old, as voters. It does not include or relate to a race of people, but to the individuals of a race who have certain qualifications of age, sex and citizenship. If Ala¬ bama should admit all white women of the age of twenty-one years to vote, and exclude all negro women from voting, that would be legitimate, under the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments, because they apply only to negro men; unless, indeed, the fifteenth amendment repeals the fourteenth; in which case, there can be no reduction of representation in Congress, under CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 143 the fourteenth amendment, and no definition in the Constitution of who is a negro voter; and the States would be left to supply the definition; in which case they could fix the definition so as to include men or women or children, or to exclude them, for otherwise ‘^the right of a citizen of the United States to vote’' could have no other possible definition. There is no logical, legal, historical, or constitutional connection between the right to vote and the right to hold office; or the capacity of the voter, and the capacity to hold office; and there is only an artificial relation, cre¬ ated by law, between the qualifications for office holding and for voting. It is the mistaken identification of these functions that has led to any doubt or obscurity on this subject. The voter has but a single power, that of voting for public officers, and his vote is the first, and really the only expression, directly given of the sovereign power of the people, after a constitution has been ordained and established. The office-holder has only the powers that are conferred on him by law as an individual, not as a member of a race. There is no more relationship between the capacity to vote and the capacity to hold office, or the right to vote and the right to hold office, than is between the Governor and the judge he appoints to office, while one is rendering judg¬ ment on the bench and the other is approving or vetoing bills passed by the Legislature; or, to make the illustration more complete, than there is between the voter who votes for a judge and the same judge who afterwards tries him for a crime. It is the right of a voter, where he lawfully votes, to represent his personal views of the qualification of the person for whom he votes, without constraint from any other person; but it is still the right of the people, after they have elected a person to office to ascertain and determine whether he is lawfully qualified to enter upon the office and dis¬ charge its duty. The two alleged rights are wholly separable; so that, to deny a person the right to vote, is not to deny such person the right to hold office. Other¬ wise, a woman who cannot vote, could not hold office. Yet, we see the constant and increasing election and appointment of women to offices of responsibility and importance, both to the State and Federal Governments. The question of the application of the 14th and 15th amendments to the right or capacity for holding office under the State Government, has been discussed at such length, not because there is the least doubt about it, but because it seems to furnish the safe plan, if not the only security to the white race, for excluding the vicious and harmful negro vote from the ballot box. It enables us to have registrars of voters who are white men, and this is almost, an absolute guaranty that elections will be honest and enlight¬ ened, according to the standard of the white race. Whether the Registrars are a State Board or a County Board, or a precinct Board, and their num-- bers shall be few or many, and what shall be their qualifications, tenure of office, or personal qualifications, are questions of policy, to be carefully considered. 144 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The key to success, and the shelter against Congressional or judicial interference, is the declaration that only white people are qualified for of¬ fice. There are some questions hidden away in the 14th and 15th amend¬ ments not generally discussed, about which jurists are much in doubt. They are whether the ISth amendment repeals any, and what part of the 14th amendment. Whether the two amendments are repugnant, and if so, whether either can be carried into execution. Whether the two amendments are to be construed in pari materia as if they were written as one amendment. Whether the 14th amendment repeals the provision of the Constitution proper as to the necessity for the apportionment of the income tax. As to the right to vote and hold office, these features of the amendments are not necessarily involved in this discussion. JOHN T. MORGAN. Suffrage and Elections. By Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) : AN ORDINANCE To amend Article XII, Section 1 of the Constitution so that the same shall read as follows: (1) All able-bodied white male inhabitants of this State, be¬ tween the ages of eighteen years and forty-five years, who are citizens of the United States, or have declared their intentions to become such citizens, .shall be liable to military duty in the militia of the State. Referred to Committee on Militia. By Mr. O’Neal; An ordinance to provide who shall be eligible to hold office under the Constitution of Alabama. Article VIII. Suffrage and Election. (1). Persons who are not citizens of the United States, or who are not descended from a father and mother belonging to the white race, shall not be eligible to any office under the Constitu¬ tion and laws of Alabama. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. By Mr. Phillips (CSay) : An Ordinance to define City Boundaries. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 145 Be it ordained, by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the boundaries of the several counties of this State as heretofore established by law, are hereby ratified and confirmed. The General Assembly may by a vote of two-thirds of both Houses thereof, arrang’e and designate boundaries for the several counties of this State, which boundaries shall not be altered, ex¬ cept by a like vote; but no new county shalt thereafter be formed of less extent than 600 square miles, and no existing county shall be reduced to less extent than 600 square miles; and no new coun¬ ty shall be formed which does not contain a sufficient number of inhabitants to entitle it to one representative under the ratio of representation existing at the time of its formation and leave the county or counties from which it is taken with the required num¬ ber of inhabitants entitling such county or counties to separate representation. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. By Mr. Pillans (Mobile) : On ordinance to amend Article II., Sec. 2 of the Constitution of Alabama. (Concerning County Seats.) Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no county seat shall be removed, unless such re¬ moval shall be authorized by the affirmative vote of the majority of the electors of such county, voting upon any such proposed removal, at an election to be provided for by law. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. By Mr. Pillans: To amend the Declaration of Rights Article of the Constitu¬ tion.—Protection of Convicts. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That it shall not be lawful to use the lash upon, or to whip or flog, any person held under conviction for crime or mis¬ demeanor in this State. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. By Mr. Reese (Dallas): Resolved, That for the purpose of easy reference, the Rules Committee or such other committees as shall have supervision of the printing of the record of the proceedings, shall cause the pages constituting such record to be numbered consecutively in the same manner now practiced in The Congressional Record of the Con¬ gress. Referred to Committee on Rules. By Mr. Reese: 146 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolved, That the present constitutional basis of representa^ tion of the several counties in the General Assembly shall remain unchangfed. Referred to Committee on Representation. By Mr. Reese: Resolved, That it is the sense of this convention that the pres¬ ent constitutional provisions relating^ to exempt property shall re¬ main unchangfed. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Robinson (Chambers) : Section 1. Be it ordained, that Section 1, Article 13, of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: (1) The General Assembly shall establish, org^anize and main¬ tain free public schools throughout the State for the education of all children thereof between the ages of 6 and 21 years. But separate schools shall be provided for the white and colored races. All funds raised by the State for the support of public schools, ex¬ cept the poll tax and funds held in trust, shall be distributed to each County in proportion to the number of children therein be¬ tween the ages of 6 and 21 years. And such funds shall be so appropriated in each County, so that the public schools for each race shall be taught the same length of time. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance 40, by Samford: CONSTITUTION Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled that the General Assembly of this State shall not grant the right to any city, town or municipal corporation, within this State, the power to borrow money or issue bonds in excess of the following limits: Towns of not more than one thousand inhabi¬ tants, 10,000 dollars; towns of one to four thousand inhabitants not more than $25,000; towns and cities of from four to six thou¬ sand inhabitants, not more than $75,000; towns and cities from six to ten thousand inhabitants not more than $200,000; towns and cities from ten to twenty-five thousand inhabitants, not more than $300,000; towns and cities from twenty-five to fifty thousand in¬ habitants not more than $500,000; provided that this clause shall not prevent any city, town, or municipal government in this State, from refunding any bonded indebtedness, now outstanding for an amount corresponding to the amount of indebtedness of such town, city or municipality. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 147 By Mr. Samford: Be it ordained that the Treasurer of this State with the ap¬ proval of the Governor, shall be permitted to deposit any funds now, or hereafter, in the treasury of this State, not needed for immediate expenses in any bank, incorporated under the laws of this State, upon a deposit by such bank with the Treasurer of the State of Alabama bonds of this State to the amount of the money deposited in such bank. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. By Mr. Sanders (Limestone) : AN ORDINANCE To amend Section 1 of Article 10 of the Constitution relatin^^ to exemption of personal property. Be it ordained, That Section 1 of Article 10 of the Constitu¬ tion be amended so that it shall read as follows : The personal property of any resident of this State to the extent of one thousand dollars, to be selected by such resident, shall be exempted from sale on execution, or other process of what¬ soever nature of any court; after the ratification of this Constitu¬ tion. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Sanders: AN ORDINANCE To amend Section 2 of Article 10 of the Constitution relating to homestead exemption. Be it ordained that Section 2 of Article 10 of the Constitution be amended so that it shall read as follows: Every homestead, not exceeding 80 acres and the dwelling- and appurtenances thereon, to be selected by the owner thereof, and not in any city, town or village, or in lieu thereon, at the option of the owner, any lot in the city, town or village, with the dwell¬ ing and appurtenances thereon, owned and occupied by any resi¬ dent of this State, and not exceeding the value of two thousand dollars, shall be exempted from sale on execution, or any other power whatsoever from any court, after the ratification of this constitution. Such exemption, however, shall not extend to any mortgage lawfully obtained, but such mortgage or other alienation of such homestead by the owner thereof, if a married man, shall not be valid without the voluntary signature and assent of the wife to the same. 148 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Sanders: AN ORDINANCE To amend Section 3 of Article X, of the Constitution, relating: to homestead exemptions. Be it ordained that Section 3 of Article 10 of the Constitution be amended so as it shall read as follows: The homestead of the family, after the death of the owner thereof, shall be exempt, after the ratification of this Constitution in all cases during: the minority of the children. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. By Mr. Sanford (Montgomery) : AN ORDINANCE To prohibit a sentence for contempt of court for any act com¬ mitted out of his presence without a trial by jury. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no persons shall be adjudged guilty of contempt of court, for any act, speech, or publication done or made out of its presence without a trial by jury. Referred to Judiciary Committee. By Mr. Sanford (Montgomery): AN ORDINANCE To establish the Executive Department of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, That the Executive Department shall consist of a Governor, a Lieutenant-Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer and Attorney-General, who shall be chosen by the electors of the State at the time and places at which they shall vote for representatives in the General Assem¬ bly. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. By Mr. Sorrell (Tallapoosa) ; AN ORDINANCE To amend Section 5 of Article IV of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama, so as to read as follows: The General Assembly shall meet on the second Tuesday in November 1902 and every four years thereafter, at the Capitol in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 149 the Senate Chamber and in the Hall of the House of Representa¬ tives (except in case of destruction of the Capitol or epidemics, Avhen the Governor may convene them at such place in the State as he may deem best) and shall not remain in session longer than sixty days. Referred to Committee on Leg^islative Department. By Mr. Spragins (Madison) : That Section 1, Article 13, of the Constitution, shall be amend¬ ed so as to read as follows: The General Assembly shall establish, organize and maintain its system of public schools throughout the State for the benefit of children thereof between the ages of 7 and 21 years; but sep¬ arate schools shall be provided for children of citizens of African descent, and the taxes, both poll and property, paid by white peo¬ ple for school purposes shall be devoted exclusively to the public schools for white children; and the taxes, both poll and property, paid by citizens of African descent for school purposes shall be de¬ voted exclusively to the public schools for children of African descent; and any and all appropriations by the General Assembly of Alabama for public school purposes shall be devoted to the schools for white children and to the schools for the children of African descent in exact proportion to the amount of property taxes paid by the respective races. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Spragins (Madison) : That Section 2 of Article 11 be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : No power to levy taxes shall be delegated to individuals or private corporations. Provided, that school districts, townships, or subdivisions, or any town, city or municipality which has been made a public school district, shall have the right to impose a tax, by a majority of the qualified electors in said school district, township or subdivision, not to exceed one-fourth of 1 per centum for public school purposes, on the taxable property in said school district, township or subdivision; and provided further that the moneys collected from said tax shall be devoted exclusively to public schools in said district, township or subdivision, that which is paid by white people being devoted to the public schools for white children, and that which is paid by citizens of African de¬ scent to be devoted to schools for children of African descent. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Spragins (Madison) : Resolved, That in any constitution that may be framed it shall be provided that all members of the General Assembly of 150 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Alabama shall be elected for four years, and that the General As¬ sembly shall meet once in four years, unless specially called to- g^ether by the Governor, and that at its sessions only g-eneral legis¬ lation shall be enacted. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. By Mr. Thompson (Bibb) : That Section 3 of Article 8 of the present Constitution be amended so that the same shall read as follows: The following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote or hold office: First—Those who shall have been convicted of treason, em¬ bezzlement, larceny, bribery or other crime punishable by im¬ prisonment in the penitentiary. Second—Those who are idiots or insane. Third—No person shall be eligible to any office of profit or trust in this State or any county thereof, unless such person be of the white race; provided that negroes may be officers and teachers of negro schools. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Thompson (Bibb) : Be it ordained, That Section 8, Article 13 of the present Con¬ stitution be amended so that the same shall read as follows: No money shall be appropriated to or used for the support of any school, except to the University of Alabama, the Polytech¬ nic Institute at Auburn, the Girls’ Industrial School at Montevallo, or the common schools of the State. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Thompson (Bibb); Be it resolved by this Convention, That the Committee on Education shall so frame the Article on Education that no money derived by taxation upon the property of white people shall be diverted to or appropriated for the support of any schools other than those for white children. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Vaughan (Dallas) : Whereas the Democratic party adopted a platform upon which a large majority of the delegates to this Convention were elected and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 151 Whereas, it is rig^ht and proper that the provisions of said platform should be observed by this Convention. Therefore be it. Resolved. That there shall be inserted in any Constitution adopted by this Convention, provisions regfulatingf suffrag^e so as not to conflict with the Constitution of the United States and for the best interests of the tax payers and people of the State of Alabama. Second, That there shall be inserted in such Constitution a provision limiting the rate of taxation by the State, counties and municipalities and that such rate of taxation shall not exceed the rate now fixed by the present Constitution, but a lower rate shall be fixed if practicable. Third, That the said Constitution shall not deprive any white man of the right to vote except for conviction of infamous crimes. Fourth, That section 39 of article 4 of the present Constitu¬ tion, in reference to the removal and location of the State Capitol shall remain unchanged. Fifth, That the rights and privileges conferred by the present Constitution upon corporations shall not be enlarged. Referred to Committee on Taxation. By Mr. Walker (Madison) ; To regulate the mode of compensating the Clerk of the Su¬ preme Court. Be it Ordained, That the Clerk of the Supreme Court shall not, after the expiration of the term of the Clerk now in office, receive to his use any fees, costs, perquisites of the office, or com¬ pensation, other than a salary to be fixed by law, which shall not equal in amount the salary of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court as fixed by law, and shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which he shall have been appointed. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. By Mr. Walker (Madison) : To amend Article 17 of the present Constitution. Be it ordained. That the following Section be inserted between Section 1 and 2 of Article 17 of the present Constitution: Section — Upon a ballot to be provided for use at such elec¬ tion the substance, subject matter or nature of the proposed amendment, shall be twice in the same language clearly indicated, followed in the one case by the word “yes,” and in the other by the word “no.” 152 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The choice of the elector to be indicated by a cross mark be¬ fore the answer he desires. Referred to Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. By Mr. Watts: Local Legislation—Sec. 23, Art. 4. Section 23. No special or local law shall be enacted, granting a divorce; removing disabilities of minority or coviture; changing the name of any per¬ son or corporation; designating a district or districts where stock shall not run at large or where liquor or other commodity shall not be sold, or for the protection of game or fish; providing for the adoption of any child; establishing a dispensary or other like thing; incorporating a town or city; granting a charter or franchises to a corporation, association or individual; amending or confirming any charter; establishing a rule of descents and distributions; fixing any procedure in the courts of any county, different from the procedure in the courts of any other county; prescribing a jury- law for any county different from any other county; prescribing the fees or salary of any office; exempting any person, corporation, county, or mu¬ nicipality from the provisions of a general law; providing for the sale of the property of individuals or of estates; or in any case which can be pro¬ vided for by a law applicable to the whole State, or where the relief sought can be given by any court in this State; nor shall the operation of any gen¬ eral law be suspended for the benefit of any individual, corporation, or as¬ sociation; nor shall any individual, corporation or association be exempted from complying with the provisions of any law. The courts, and not the General Assembly, shall judge as to the construction of this section, and all local laws of the nature described now in existence are hereby avoided, except charters of cities, towns or corporations, and except acts relieving disabilities of minority and coverture, provided that no contract made in pursuance of any such law shall be affected hereby. Sec. 24. No law not applicable to the whole State shall be passed at all unless notice of intention to apply therefor shall have been published in the locality where the matter or things to be affected may be situated, which notice shall be given for at least one month by publication for at least once a week in some newspaper for four consecutive weeks before the time fixed by law for the assembly of the General Assembly, and the evi¬ dence of said notice having been given shall be exhibited to each house of the General Assembly and the fact of such evidence having been exhibited spread upon the journal of each House before such bill shall become a law. And no law, not applicable to the whole State, shall be passed, unless it has been submitted to a committee in each House who report that the matter cannot be, or is not, provided for in a general law, or cannot be, or is not, within the power or jurisdiction of some court. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 153 Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. By Mr. Watts (Montgomery): SUFFRAGE AND ELECTIONS 1— No person shall be entitled to vote at any election or to hold office in this State who has not been registered as an elector, as hereinafter pro¬ vided. 2— A general registration of all the voters in the State shall be taken at least four months before any general election for State officers, and a general registration of all the voters in a town or city at least one month before any election for municipal officers; but the General Assembly may provide for registration as to special election. 3— No person shall be permitted to register unless he is a male, 21 years of age or upwards, and will have resided in this State two years, and in the precinct (if not in a town or city) or in the town or city in which he proposes to vote, six months next before the time fixed for the election. A —No person shall be permitted to register who has not paid all taxes legally assessed against his property prior to said registration. 5— A poll tax of %2 is hereby fixed against every male inhabitant of this State over the age of 21 years, which poll tax shall be devoted exclusively to the public schools in the counties respectively where the same shall be paid, and no person who has failed to pay said poll tax prior to registra¬ tion shall be permitted to register. The General Assembly may increase the amount of the poll tax to not exceeding $5. 6— No person who has been convicted of treason, embezzlement of public funds malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery, or other crime punish¬ able by imprisonment in the penitentiary shall be permitted to register. 7— The General Assembly shall provide stringent laws for the prose¬ cution and punishment of all persons who shall cheat at any general or special election or at any primary, convention, or other method adopted for selecting party nominees, and no person convicted of any such offense shall be permitted to register. 8— The General Assembly shall provide stringent laws for the prosecu¬ tion of all persons who shall buy, sell, barter, or offer to sell, buy, or barter any vote at any general or special election, or at or before any primary, convention, or other method adopted for selecting party nominees and no person convicted of any such offense shall be permitted to register. 9— No person, although otherwise qualified as an elector under this constitution, shall be entitled to register, vote, or hold office in this State, or in any sub-division thereof, who was not, or whose father or grandfather was not, prior to January 1st, 1861, entitled to vote in some State or Terri¬ tory, unless since January 1st, 1861, he has been naturalized as a citizen 154 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of the United States; Provided, this section shall not apply to any person whose assessed taxable property amounts in value as assessed to $1,000 or more. 10— It shall be unlawful for any person while holding any office under this State or any sub-division thereof, or under the United States, to di¬ rectly or indirectly ask for, accept, or use, for himself or another, any pass or free transportation or transportation upon terms different from those open to the public generally on any railroad, steamboat or other common carrier. The General Assembly shall provide for the prosecution of all such persons, and no person convicted of any such offense shall be permitted to register. 11— Every person before being permitted to register, shall be required to sign an oath to the effect that he is qualified to register under this con¬ stitution, and that he is not disqualified under any provision of this consti¬ tution from registering, and further that while holding any office under this State, or any sub-division thereof or of the United States, since the ratification of this constitution, he has not accepted or used any pass or free transportation upon terms different from those open to the public gen¬ erally, issued to him or for his use by any railroad company, steamboat company, or other common carrier. 12— All elections by the people shall be by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. 13— Electors shall, in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, or while going to or returning therefrom. 14— The General Assembly shall pass laws, not inconsistent with this Constitution, to regulate and govern elections in this State, and all such laws shall be uniform throughout the State. 15— It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass adequate laws giving protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxicating li¬ quors at elections. 16— Returns of elections for all civil officers who are to be commis¬ sioned by the Governor, except Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer and Attorney General, and for members of the General Assembly, shall be made to the Secretary of State. 17— The General Assembly shall provide adequate means for the trial of the right to register, and all such cases shall be given precedence in the courts. 18— Every person who shall knowdngly swear falsely to obtain regis¬ tration shall be guilty of perjury and shall be punished on conviction as the General Assembly shall provide for the punishment of the crime of perjury generally. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. By Mr. Whiteside (Calhoun): CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 155 Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, That no person shall be elig;ible to the office of State or County Superintendent of E^ducation in this State who does not hold, or is unable to obtain, a first ^rade certificate from the State Board of Examiners of Teachers. Referred to Committee on Education. By Mr. Williams (Marengo) : Be it ordained by the convention. That the Committee on Ju¬ diciary so draw an ordinance that the office of Justice of the Peace be abolished in every incorporated town, village or city. Referred to Judiciary Committee. By Mr. Williams (Marengo) ; Resolved, That the Special Committee commonly called and known as the Religious Committee, and composed of Delegates Howell, Watts and Blackwell, be and they are hereby requested to investigate and specially report as to the correctness of The Mobile Register's position as contained in the following editorial, dated May 26, 1901: “The Constitutional Convention has formally decided that it is not good form to say Rev.-, and has ordered the minutes to read Rev. Mr. -. The alternative style is said to be the use of Rev. before the surname, with the given name stated or indi¬ cated. Rev. G. L.-, therefore, is proper, according to the Con¬ stitutional Convention. The Convention has hit it wrongly. There is no merit in Rev. G. L.-, if Rev.-, is wrong. To say Rev. George Johnston is no better in style than to say Rev. Johnston. Best usage is to precede the title with the definite article in case the Christian name is omitted. The insertion of the Mr. simply dou¬ bles the title without adding strength to the expression. Referred to Special Committee, Messrs. Howell, Watts and Blackwell. THE PRESIDENT—I refer that to Committee on Providing Religious Exercises for this Convention. (Laughter.) MR. HOWELL—I move that it be referred to the Committee on Military. (Laughter.) By Mr. Wilson (Clarke) : AN ORDINANCE To define the qualifications of voters in primary elections or beat meetings. Be it ordained. That no person shall be permitted to vote in any primary election, beat meeting, or other nominating election 156 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS by a political party, unless such person is a qualified voter under the laws of this State. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. MALONE (Henry)—I move we adjourn until 11 o’clock tomorrow morning. MR. LOMAX (Montgomery)—Please withdraw that motion for a moment. Motion of Mr. Malone withdrawn. MR. LOMAX—I ask leave of absence for myself beginning tomorrow morning until Saturday. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I ask leave of absence for myself for tomorrow. MR. REESE (Dallas)—I move when this convention does adjourn, it adjourn to meet at 10 o’clock tomorrow. MR. deGRAFFENREID (Hale)—There will be committee meeting tomorrow morning at half past 9 which could not pos¬ sibly get through by 10 and it would not be advisable to meet be¬ fore 11 o’clock. MR. REESE—I withdraw my motion, as I understand the committees will meet. MR. ASHCRAFT—I rise to a question of personal privilege. PRESIDENT—State the question of personal privilege. MR. ASHCRAFT—The stenographic report of the proceed¬ ings of last Saturday, in my remarks to the convention, are made to say, “I think I have the capacity and the experience which will enable me to express clearly some of the reasons why these re¬ ports should be made.” I did not make that statement. I said, ‘T wish I had the capacity and experience which would enable me to state clearly some of the reasons why these reports should not be made.” I am quite sure it was an oversight in the stenographer. PRESIDENT—The chair’s recollection sustains the gentle¬ man from Lauderdale in his recollection. Convention adjourned to meet at 11 o’clock a. m. May 29. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 157 SEVENTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., May 29th, 1901. The Convention was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened by prayer by the Rev. Neal Anderson, as follows: Most Gracious Lord, we invoke Thy blessings at the begin¬ ning of the work of this new day. We acknowledge Thy loving kindness and Thy watchful Providence that has kept us during the rest of the night, and has awakened us in health and strength, and pray for Thy blessing as Thy servants enter upon the active discharge of the duties to which they have been called. We thank Thee for the spirit of order and for the spirit of patriotism that has been manifested in the councils of this body, and we pray Thee that Thou wouldst speak in every heart that these. Thy ser¬ vants, may realize that they are building for the future of this great commonwealth, and may they place before their individual consciousness the highest and noblest and pure.st ideals. May the love of country take supreme possession of their hearts in the consideration of these great problems. We do pray Thee that Thou wouldst take from them all spirit of self-seeking, all spirit of partisanship, and enable Thy servants to discharge the solemn functions of the office to which they have been called in the fear of God. Command Thy blessings upon the loved ones left at home, watch over them and keep them day by day, and prosper Thy servants in their temporal affairs, and while they have come up to this place to carry forward the interests of the people, wilt Thou grant that the interests they have left at home be under Thy precious care, and Thy grace and benediction rest upon them. These things we ask, dear Lord, and for the pardon of our sins in the name that is above all names, the name of Jesus, Son of Man, Son of Mary, Son of God and our Savior. Amen. THE PRESIDENT—The next order is roll call. MR. SANFORD—Before the roll is call, if it wdll be in or¬ der, I ask that Ordinance No. 45 be withdrawn from the Com¬ mittee on the Judiciary and referred to the Committee on Pre¬ amble and Bill of Rights. THE PRESIDENT—If there is no objection, the request of the gentleman will be .granted. The Ordinance No. 45 will be so referred. The roll was called and showed the presence of 136 members, a quorum. 158 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. WEATHERLY—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Cornwall of Jefferson, for today and tomorrow. The leave was g^ranted. MR. HALEY—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Long: of Walker, and his son Henry, and also desire to state that Pierce is down in his room sick this morning:. THE PRESIDENT—For what length of time does the gen¬ tleman request leave of absence for Mr. Long? MR. HALEY—For today. The leave was granted. MR. HALEY—Also for Mr. Pierce. The leave was granted. MR. FITTS—I respectfully ask indefinite leave of absence for Mr. Thompson of Bibb, on account of sickness in his family. The leave was granted. MR. FITTS—Mr. President, I ask leave for today for Mr. Cofer of Cullman. The leave was granted. MR. FITTS—Mr. President, on account of certain duties which will necessitate my going to the University of Alabama at its commencement, the meeting of the Board of Trustees, I re- respectfully ask leave of absence for myself for tomorrow, Friday and Saturday. The leave was granted. MR. DAVIS (Etowah)—I desire to ask leave of absence for myself tomorrow, Friday and Saturday, to attend a session of the Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama. The leave was granted. MR. BURNS—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Craig of Dallas, for today. The leave was granted. THE PRESIDENT—The next order will be the report of the Committee on Journals. MR. PROCTOR—Mr. Chairman, the Committee on Journal desires to again call the attention of delegates to rule No. 50, with reference to making titles to all ordinances in order that the Sec¬ retary may be able to keep track of the resolutions and ordinances. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 159 The President stated the request. The report of the Com¬ mittee on Journal was read. MR. BURNETT—I move the adoption of the report. The motion was carried. MR. FITTS—I now move that the reading of the Journal be dispensed with. The motion was carried. MR. WALKER—I desire to call attention to a mistake in the stenographic report of the ordinance introduced by myself on yesterday, in reference to the mode of voting for Constitutional amendments. The Ordinance as printed is divided into two para¬ graphs. The word no in quotations was followed by a comma, and the remainder of the Ordinance was a clause constituting a part of the same section, there being but one paragraph. As print¬ ed it is not in very good shape and I desire simply to call attention to it for correction. THE PRESIDENT—The original resolution, the Secretary informs me, is correct, and is entered correctly on the Journal. MR. WALKER—I understand that, but it is simply for the information of the members who use these printed copies. MR. HINSON—I notice in the official report yesterday it quotes Mr. Lomax as stating that his Ordinance on Local Legisla- tion ‘Ms merely a readoption of the present Constitution with ref- erence to municipal taxation, with the Birmingham amendment added.” Mr. Lomax made that statement in reference to his Or¬ dinance on Taxation, and not as the official report has it, as to the Ordinance on Local Legislation. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll of dele¬ gates in alphabetical order for the introduction of ordinances, resolutions, etc. MR. ALMON—I offer an Ordinance. Ordinance No. 59: An Ordinance to amend Section 5 of Article XI, of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That Section 5 of Article XI, of the Constitution be amended so that it shall read as follows: No county in this State shall be authorized to levy larger rate of taxation, in one year, on the value of the taxable property therein than one-half of 1 per centum. Provided, that to pay any debt or liability now existing against any county, incurred for the erection of the necessary public buildings or other ordinary county 160 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS purposes, or that may hereafter be created for the erection of necessary public buildings or bridges or improving, public roads, any county may levy and collect such special takes as may have been or may hereafter be authorized by law, which taxes so levied and collected shall be applied exclusively to the purposes for which the same was so levied and collected; Provided that the whole amount levied for the above purpose shall not exceed one- fourth of 1 per centum. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Resolution No. 41 by M^. Almon: To print 300 copies of Bill of Rights and Constitution. Be it resolved, That 300 copies of the Bill of Rights and Con¬ stitution be printed and distributed among the members of the Convention and Committees. Referred to the Committee on Rules. At the calling of Mr. Banks’s name he yielded to Mr. Waddell: Ordinance No. 60, by Mr. Waddell: An ordinance to provide for working of public roads of the state. Sec. 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in* Conven¬ tion assembled. That the public roads of the State shall be worked by taxation. Sec. 2. The General Assembly shall pass such laws as may be necessary to put into operation this article of the Constitution. Referred to Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. Ordinance No. 61 by Mr. Waddell: Giving the General Assembly power to pass laws governing the gathering and marketing of farm products raised in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly shall have power to pass such laws as may be necessary to govern and control the gathering and marketing of farm products raised in this State. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance 62, by Mr. Barefield: To amend Article I, Section 1 Declaration of Rights of the Constitution of Alabama. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 161 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1, of Article I be amended so as to include the word reputation. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rij?hts. Ordinance No. 63, by Mr. Beddow: To amend Section 7 , Article XI, taxation of the Constitution, of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 7, Article XI be amended as follows; By striking out the word (preceding) where it occurs in the fourth line of said section, and inserting in the place thereof the word “same.” Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 64, by Mr. Beddow: To amend Section 12, Article I, bill of rights of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled. That Section 12, Article I of the constitution be amended so as to read as follows: The right of trial by jury shall be secured to all and remain inviolate; but in civil actions three-fourths of the jury may ren¬ der a verdict. Referred to Committee on Preamble and bill of rights. Ordinance No. 65, by Mr. Blackwell: An ordinance to prohibit any person who, while a candidate for any office, shall be guilty of bribery, or fraud, or willful vio¬ lation of any election law, from voting or holding office in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That any person who shall while a candidate for any office be guilty of bribery, fraud, or willful violation of any elec¬ tion law, shall upon conviction be forever disqualified from hold¬ ing any office of trust or profit in this State, and shall be forever deprived of the right of suffrage. And no future legislature shall have the power to remove the disabilities so incurred. Any person violating this ordinance shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not less than one year, and the legislature may by appropriate legislation add greater punishment if it see fit. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. 162 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 66, by Mr. Blackwell: An ordinance to prohibit any person who practices fraud in elections from voting’ or holding: office in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That any person who shall g;ive or promise or offer to give to an elector, any money, reward or other valuable consid¬ eration for his vote at an election, or for withholding: the same, or who shall give or promise to give such consideration to any other person or party for such elector’s vote, or for the withhold¬ ing thereof, for himself or another, any money, reward or other valuable consideration for his vote at an election, or for with¬ holding the same, shall, upon conviction, be forever disfranchised, and shall be denied the right forever afterwards to hold any office of trust or profit in this State. No future Legislature shall have the power to remove the disabilities so incurred. Any person vio¬ lating this ordinance shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not less than one year, and the Legislature, by appropriate legislation, may add greater punishment if it sees fit. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. Ordinance No. 67, by Mr. Blackwell; To provide for the filling of all vacancies that may occur in county offices by direct vote of the people. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That when a vacancy occurs in any county office, by death, impeachment or removal of an official, or for any other cause it shall be the duty of the Governor to call an election with¬ in thirty days after he receives notice of such vacancy or vacancies, to fill the same, and the people shall vote directly for the person or persons of their choice to fill said vacancy or vacancies. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 68, by Mr. Blackwell: Providing that each county shall have a Superintendent of Education, who shall be elected by the people and shall possess certain qualifications. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That each county shall have a Superintendent of Educa¬ tion, who, under the control and direction of the State Superin¬ tendent of Education, shall have supervision of the public schools of his county; said County Superintendent of Education shall be elected by direct vote of the qualified electors of the county. No person shall be eligible to election as County Superintendent of Education who does not at least hold a first grade certificate as teacher and make teaching his vocation. Referred to Committee on Education. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 163 Ordinance No. 69, by Mr. Boone: To amend Article XIV, Section 1, of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Article XIV, Section 1 of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: Corporations may be formed under gfeneral laws, but shall not be created by special act. All gfeneral laws or special acts creating or authorizing^ the creation of corporations passed since July 13th, 1868, and all general laws enacted pursuant to this section may be altered, amended or repealed. See Mayor of Mobile vs. Stonewall Insurance Co., S3 Ala., Page 576. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 70, by Mr. Boone; To amend Article I, Section 12 of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention As¬ sembled, That Article I, Section 12, of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: Article I, Section 12—That right of trial by jury as heretofore enjoyed shall remain inviolate; but in civil actions three-fourths of the jury may render a verdict. A trial by jury may be waived in all criminal cases, not amounting to a felony, by the consent of both parties expressed in open court, and in civil actions by the consent of the parties signified in such manner as may be pre¬ scribed by law. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. Ordinance No. 71, by Mr. Boone: An ordinance to amend Article I, Section 23 of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama. Be it ordained, by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Article 1, Section 23 of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Article I, Section 23, That no expost facto law, or any law impairing the obligation of contracts, or making grants of ex¬ clusive privileges or immunities shall be passed by the General Assembly. See Birmingham Street Railway cases, 79 Alabama, pages 473, 474 and 475. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights. Ordinance No. 72, by Mr. Boone: 164 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS An ordinance to amend Article XIV, Section 10, of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention assem¬ bly, That Article XIV, Section 10, of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: ‘'The General Assembly shall have the power to alter, revoke or amend any charter of incorporation now existing- and revocable at the ratification of this constitution whenever in the opinion of the General Assembly it may be injurious to the citizens of the State; in such manner, however, that no injustice shall be done to the corporators. No law hereafter enacted shall renew or extend the charter of more than one corporation. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 73, by Mr. Browne: An ordinance to amend Section 7, Article XI of the Consti¬ tution. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled that Section 7 of Article XI of the Constitu¬ tion be amended by adding therein, after the words “such indebt¬ edness’’ the following: “Provided no city, town or other municipal corporation shall issue bonds in an amount in excess of 10 per centum of the value of the taxable property therein, as shown by the last preceding assessment thereof for State and county taxation, but this limita¬ tion shall not apply to such bonds as may have been already is¬ sued or authorized to be issued.’' Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporation. Ordinance 74, by Mr. Bulger: To revise and amend Article XIII of the present Constitution of this State which relates to education. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Article XIII of the present Constitution of the State of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: Article XIII—Education. Section 1. The General Assembly shall establish, organize, and main¬ tain a system of public schools throughout the State for the benefit of the children thereof, between the ages of 7 and 21 years; but separate schools shall be provided for the children of citizens of African descent. Sec. 2. The principal of all funds arising from the sale or other dis¬ position of lands or other property, which has been or may hereafter be granted or intrusted to this State, or given by the United States, for edu¬ cational purposes, shall be preserved inviolate and undiminished; and the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 165 income arising therefrom shall be faithfully applied to the specific objects of the original grants or appropriations. Sec. 3. All lands or other property given by individuals, or appro¬ priated by the State for educational purposes, and all estates of deceased persons who die without leaving a will or heir shall be faithfully applied to the maintenance of the public schools. Sec. 4. The General Assembly shall also provide for the levying and collection of an annual poll tax, not to exceed $1.50 on each poll, which shall be applied to the support of the public schools in the counties in which it is levied and collected. Sec. 5. That each male inhabitant in this State between the ages of 21 and 50 years shall be subject to the payment of a poll tax. Sec. 6. The poll tax of each race shall be kept separate, and the poll tax paid by the white race shall be appropriated to the support and main¬ tenance of the schools attended by the children of the white race, and the poll tax paid by the race of African descent .shall be appropriated to the support of the schools attended by the children of the race of African descent. Sec. 7. The income arising from the sixteenth section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund, until it is called for by the United States Government, and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this article, with such other monies, to be not less than $500,000 per annum as the General Assembly shall provide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools; and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase, from time to time, the public school fund, as the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State will admit. Sec. 8. Not more than 6 per cent of all monies raised or which may hereafter be appropriated for the support of public schools shall be used or expended otherwise than for the payment of teachers employed in such schools; Provided, that the General Assembly may by a vote of two-thirds of each house suspend the operation of this section. Sec. 9. The supervision of the public schools shall be vested in a super¬ intendent of education, whose powers, duties and compensations shall be fixed by law. The Superintendent of Education shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State in such manner, and at such time as shall be provided by law, whose term of office shall be four years, and he shall be ineligible for re-election to succeed himself. Sec. 10. No money raised for the support of the public schools of this State shall be appropriated to, or used for, the support of any sectarian or denominational school. Sec. 11. The State University, the Agricultural and Mechanical Col¬ lege, and the Girls' Industrial School shall each be under the management and control of a board of trustees. The board for the University shall con¬ sist of two members from the Congressional District in which the University is located, and one member from each of the other Congressional Districts, 166 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and one member from the State at large. The board for the Agricultural and Mechanical College shall consist of two members from the Congressional District in which the college is located, one from each of the other Con¬ gressional districts, and one from the State at large. The Board for the Girls’ Industrial School shall consist of two members from the Congres¬ sional District in which the college is located, one from each of the other Congressional Districts and three female trustees from the State at large. Said trustees shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the consent of the Senate, and shall hold office for a term of six years, and until their successors shall be appointed and qualified. Each of said boards shall be divided into three classes as nearly equal as may be. The seats of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of two years, and those of the sec¬ ond class in four years, and those of the third class at the end of six years, from the date of appointment, so that one-third may be chosen bi-annually. No trustee shall receive any pay or emolument, other than his actual ex¬ penses incurred in the discharge of his duties as such, the amount of which expenses shall be shown by itemized statement, sworn to by the trustee. The Governor shall be ex-officio president, and the Superintendent of Edu¬ cation ex-officio member of each of said boards of trustees. Sec. 12. The General Assembly shall have no power to change the lo¬ cation of the State University, the Agricultural and Mechanical College, or the Girls’ Industrial School as now established by law, except by a vote of two-thirds of the members of the General Assembly, taken by yeas and nays, and entered upon the journals. Sec. 13. All taxes paid by the two races shall be kept separate and dis¬ tinct and appropriations for the support of the schools of the white race, shall be made out of the taxes paid by the white race, and appropriations for the support of the schools of the race of African descent shall be made out of taxes paid by the race of African descent. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 75, by Mr. Burns. An ordinance to exempt veterans of the civil war from pay¬ ment of licenses, etc. Be it ordained, That all ex-soldiers of the war of 1861-5 shall not be required to pay any license for doing^ or carrying on any business or occupation in which his own manual labor is necessary. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 76, by Mr. Burns: An ordinance to add an additional section to Article VIII of the Constitution of Alabama. Be it ordained that Section 8 of the Constitution of Alabama be amended by adding: No person shall vote at any primary elec¬ tion, or in any convention, or other regular political assembly held for the purpose of nominating anj" candidate for public office unless CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 167 he be at the time a registered or qualified voter. And in all political conventions held in this State the apportionment of representa¬ tion shall be on the basis of population. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 77, by Mr. Carmichael (Colbert) : An ordinance to amend Section 1 of Article XIII of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article XIII of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: (1) The General Assembly shall establish, organize and main¬ tain a system of public schools throughout the State for the bene¬ fit of the children thereof between the ages of 7 and 21 years; provided, that the General Assembly shall apportion the public school fund between the white and negro children in such manner as may to them seem just and equitable, and provided the funds apportioned to the white children shall be equally divided between all the white children and the funds apportioned to the negro children shall be equally divided between all the negro children of the State; but separate schools shall be established for the children of African descent. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 78, by Mr. Carmichael (Coffee) ; An ordinance to regulate the granting of franchises by mu¬ nicipal corporations. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That no municipal corporation shall grant an exclusive franchise to an individual or private corporation, unless an elec¬ tion be held under the laws regulating municipal election, and a majority of the qualified voters at such election vote for the grant¬ ing of such franchises. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 79, by same: An Ordinance to amend Section 24 of Article IV, of the pres¬ ent Constitution. Be it ordained, by the people of the State of Alabama, in Con¬ vention assembled, that Section 24 of Article IV, of the present Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: “No general law from which any county or municipality shall be excepted, and no local or special law shall be passed by the General Assembly unless notice of the intention to secure the passage of such law be given by publication in a newspaper pub- 168 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS lished in the county to be affected by such law, or in which the municipality to be affected by such law is situated, or in which the person to be benefited by such law resides; said notice shall con¬ tain the caption of the proposed law, and shall be published at least four consecutive weeks, not longer than sixty nor less than ten days prior to the introduction of such bill; a copy of the notice and affidavit of the correct publication shall be attached to the bill introduced and be made a part of the House and Senate jour¬ nals, and be read at length at each reading of the bill. Provided, That in the event the publication cannot be pro¬ cured at the legal advertising rates, then existing, the publication above required shall be made by posting it at least five public places in each precinct in the county, and an affidavit that such publication could only be procured in such manner shall take the place of the newspaper publisher’s affidavit aforementioned. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. Ordinance No. 80, by same: An Ordinance to make the pay of the public school teachers a preferred claim. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled. That the General Assembly shall enact laws making the pay of teachers in the public schools claims against the moneys in the State Treasury preferred above all others, ex¬ cept the interest on the public debt. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 81, by Mr. Case; Ordinance to amend Article 1. of the Constitution Declara¬ tion of Rights. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Article I, of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: That the great, general and essential principles of liberty and free government may be established, we declare; First—That all men are equally free and independent; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of these principles, and when the government assumes other functions, it is usurpation and oppression, and that this State shall not make or enforce any law which shall abridge the principles or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall it deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 169 Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration, Resolution No. 42, by Mr. Case: Whereas, The State of Alabama is far behind other States ap¬ pertaining to educational advantages and most especiall 3 '' as relat¬ ing to public schools; and, Whereas, It has been suggested that school districts should be laid off in every county, town and city in this State, and at each such district be empowered to vote any taxes upon itself for the education of its children, which it may see proper; and that the 10 cents now levied on every $100 worth of taxable property by the State for school purposes be repealed; and. Whereas, Should that be done, a great many of such school districts would be composed entirely of very poor people, and thin¬ ly settled; and, Whereas, It has been further suggested that, when the above mentioned changes shall have been effected, the State shall stop its appropriations to the common schools; and, whereas, should this be done, each such school would be confined, for support, alone to the taxes levied in its own district, which would cause the common schools in the rural districts to languish and die as it were, for want of sufficient funds which to educate their chil¬ dren ; and many bright-eyed boys and girls, the parents of whom fortune has failed to favor, would not have an equal chance for a common school education with the children of those wealthy dis¬ tricts, blessed with railroads, and the homes of many capitalists and large corporations possessed of their millions. For such last named schools would get the principle amount of such money for educational purposes, leaving the poor rural districts almost ab¬ solutely destitute of educational aid; therefore, be it Resolved, That it is the sense of this convention that it hold intact the present provision of 10-cent tax upon the $100 of as- sessible property in the State, to be levied and collected for the support of the common schools; and that it request the Legisla¬ ture to make additional appropriations for such schools, from time to time, whenever the financial condition of the State will justify it. Referred to Committee on Education. Resolution No. 43, by Mr. deGraffenreid: To authorize the President of this convention to appoint two short-hand reporters to serve the committees and the members of this convention. Resolved, That the President of this convention shall appoint two short-hand reporters, at a salary of $2.50 per day, whose duty it shall be to wait upon and serve the committees of this conven¬ tion, when directed to do so, by the chairmen thereof, and when 170 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS not performing work for the committees to wait upon and serve the members of this convention in the preparation of ordinances, resolutions and motions to be submitted to this convention. The said short-hand reporters appointed under this resolution shall have, as their regular place of business the cloak room of the Sen¬ ate chamber. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 28, by Mr. Duke: To amend Section 5, Article V, of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5, Article V, of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: The Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, State Au¬ ditor and Attorney-General shall hold their respective offices tor the term of four years from the time of their installation in office and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 83, by Mr. Duke: To amend Section 4 of Article IV of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled ; that Section 4 of Article IV of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: Senators shall be at least 25 years of age, and representatives 21 years of age; they shall have been citizens and inhabitants of this State three years and inhabitants of their respective counties or districts one year next before their election, if such county or district shall have been so long established; but if not then of the county or district from which the same shall have been taken, and they shall reside in their respective counties or districts during their terms of office. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 84, by Mr. Eyster: To amend Section 2 of Article II of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section 2 of Article II of the Constitution be amend¬ ed so as to read as follows: Section 2. The boundaries of the several counties of this State as the same now ex’st are hereby ratified and confirmed. The General Assembly may by a two-thirds vote of both houses thereof arrange and designate the boundaries for the several coun¬ ties of this State, which boundary shall not be altered except by CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 171 a like vote; but no new counties shall be hereafter formed of less extent than four hundred square miles and no existing coun¬ ties shall be reduced to less extent than four hundred square miles, and no new counties shall be formed which does not contain a suf¬ ficient number of inhabitants to entitle it to one representative under the ratio of representation existing^ at the time of its for¬ mation, and leave the county or counties from which it is taken with the required number of inhabitants entitling such county or counties to separate representation. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 85, by same: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section 35 of the Declaration of Rights be, and the same hereby is repealed. Referred to Preamble and Bill of Rig^hts. Ordinance No. 86, by same: An ordinance relating to the State University. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled. Section 1. The State University shall be under the management and control of a board of trustees, which shall consist of two members from the Congressional District in which the University is located, and one from each of the other Congressional Districts in the State. Said trustees shall be appointed as follows: The Governor shall appoint three, the Chief Jus¬ tice shall appoint three, and the Society of the Alumni of the University of Alabama shall appoint four. All by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and they shall hold office for a term of six years and until their suc¬ cessors are appointed and qualified. Should the number of Congressional Districts be increased beyond nine in number, the Society of the Alumni shall appoint the additional trustees for such increased congressional rep¬ resentation. Should the number of congressional districts be reduced, the number of trustees to be appointed by the Governor shall be correspondingly reduced. The terms of office of the present trustees as they expire, shall be filled by appointment by the Society of the Alumni, the Chief Justice and the Governor, each appointing one in the order named, beginning with the Society of the Alumni. Sec. 2. No trustee shall receive any pay or emolument other than his actual expenses incurred in the discharge of his duties as such, except for extraordinary services the compensation for which must be agreed upon by the other members of the board before such extraordinary services are ren¬ dered or entered upon. Sec. 3. The Governor shall be Ex-officio President, and the Superin¬ tendent of Education Ex-officio a member of said board of trustees. 172 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 4. The General Assembly shall have no power to change the location of the State University except upon a vote of three-fourths of the members of the General Assembly taken by yeas and nays and entered upon the journals. Referred to Committee on Education. Resolution No. 44, by same: Resolved, That the office of Reading Clerk of this Convention is hereby created, and the compensation of such Reading Clerk shall be the same as that of the Assistant Secretary. MR. PARKER—I move that the rules be suspended and that that resolution be adopted. A vote being taken, the rules were suspended, and a further vote being taken, the resolution was adopted. Ordinance No. 87, by Mr. Ferguson: An Ordinance concerning the right of citizens to bear arms. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That in lieu of Section 27 of Article I. of the Constitution of 1875, the following provision shall be enacted: Section —. That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the State, but the General Assembly shall have the power to regulate the bearing of small arms, shall define the same, and shall pass laws requiring a license for the bearing of such small arms. Note—For the benefit of the Committee the following authori¬ ties are cited: Miller vs. Texas, 153 U. S. P., 533, and authorities there cited: 92 U. S. P. 542; 116 U. S. P. 252. Referred to Committee on Preamble and bill of Rights. MR. BLACKWELL—I move that the rules be suspended and that W'. W. Brandon be elected Reading Clerk. TFIE PRESIDENT—He has already been appointed. Resolution No. 45, by Mr. Fergu.son: - Resolved, That in framing the suffrage clause to the Consti- tuition to be enacted by this Convention, due regard shall be given to the following well known principles: First—That the ability to read and write is not a supreme test of good citizenship. Second—That the inability to read and write is not a test of good citizenship. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 173 Third—That the true test of g^ood citizenship is the patriotic and fairly intelligent use of the ballot in the hands of those who look to their country’s good, free from malevolent or corrupting influences of any character whatever, and who, by inherited char¬ acteristics, act for the best interests of good government. Fourth—That it is the purpose of this Convention in con¬ ferring the electoral franchise, to give it in harmony with these principles, to the end that good government shall be made secure, and that substantial, patriotic citizenship shall be recognized, in accordance with the Fifteenth Amendment to the Federal Con¬ stitution. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 88, by Mr. Fitts: An ordinance to repeal Section 38 of the present Bill of Rights. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 38 of the Bill of Rights be and the same is hereby repealed. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights. Ordinance No. 89, by Mr. Fletcher: An Ordinance to Amend Section 7, Article XI, of the Present Constitution in regard to the taxation of municipal corporations. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. that Section 7 of Article XI, be amended by striking out the words “assessed for State taxation during the previous year.” Also by striking out “1 per cent.” as an additional rate, when it occurs, and insert one-half of 1 per cent. And the re-adopdon of the Section as amended. Referred to Committee oij Taxation. Ordinance No. 90, by Mr. Foster: An ordinance to define general laws. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That the general laws within the meaning of this Con¬ stitution, are laws which operate on all the subjects or all of the class of subjects which they affect uniformly throughout the territorial limits of the State, and laws which fix the time of hold¬ ing terms of courts. All other laws are local or private. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. To amend Article VIII of the Constitution. To amend Section 9, Article VIII of the Constitution. 174 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 91, by Mr. Foster: Be it ordained by the People of Alabama, in convention assembled, That Section 1 of Article VIII of the Constitution be amended by substi¬ tuting therefor the following: Every male citizen of the United States who is twenty-one years old and upward, possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector, and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people except as otherwise provided in this Constitution: First, he shall have resided in the State at least two years immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote. Second he shall reside in the county one year and in the precinct or ward three months immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote. Third, he shall have paid on or before the first day of March in the year in which such election is held and on or before the first day of March of each year in which he shall be liable for poll tax intervening between the year in which such election shall be held and the last general election next preceding, a poll tax of $1.50; and shall upon offering to vote produce and show to the managers of election receipts for such poll taxes, signed by the officer charged by the law for the collection of taxes in the counties in which such poll taxes shall have been paid. The officers, whose duty it shall be to collect taxes in their respective counties shall provide each year well-bound books, in which they shall record the names of all persons paying poll taxes, with the precinct of their residence, which books shall be by such officers delivered to the Probate Judges of their respective counties on or before the first day of April of each year, and the said Probate Judges shall immediately, upon the delivery of such books to them, so mark such books at the end of the list of names therein as that no other names may be added thereto. Such books shall be preserved as other records of the office of the Probate Judge, and upon any contest of election shall be evidenced for either party to the con¬ test; provided, that no person shall be entitled to vote unless he shall have registered as required by law at least three months prior to the election at which he offers to vote, and, provided, further, that any person offering to vote after five years from the date this Constitution is ratified, shall possess all qualifications and shall have complied with all the requirements pre¬ scribed above, and shall also, without aid, write his own name on the book of registration at the time he registers or shall have paid at least $5 as taxes to the State and county upon property bona fide owned by him and listed for taxation for the year immediately preceding the year in which the election at which he offers to vote shall be held. And, provided, further, that the tax collectors shall receive no commission or compensation for collecting the poll taxes provided for above, and that no compulsory process for the collection of such poll tax shall ever be authorized by law. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. Ordinance No. 92, by Mr. Foster: To amend Section 9, Article XIII of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, That Section 9 of Article XIII of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 m The State University, located at Tuscaloosa, and The Agricultural and Mechanical College, located at Auburn, shall be under the control and man¬ agement of one and the same board of trustees; said board shall consist of seven trustees, one of whom shall be ex officio the State Superintendent of Education, who shall be the President; two of said trustees shall be appoint¬ ed by the Governor; one shall be elected by the faculty of the University of Alabama; one by the faculty of the Agricultural and Mechanical College; one by the alumni of the University of Alabama and one by the alumni of the Agricultural and Mechanical College. The term of office as trustee of the Superintendent of Education shaii continue during the term of his State office; the terms of the other six trustees shall begin on the date of their election or appointment, and shall expire after periods ranging from one to six years each, so that one trustee shall go out of office each year. The order in which their terms shall expire shall be determined by lot or otherwise by the trustees themselves. W^en the terms of any one of said six trustees has expired, his successors shall be appointed or elected for a term of six years in the same manner as in the first instance. In case the office of any trustee is vacated in any manner before his term has expired his successor shall be elected or appointed, as the case may be, for the balance of the un¬ expired term. The Senate at every session shall confirm or disaffirm the appointment or election of those trustees who have come into office since the last General Assembly; and in case they do not confirm the appointment or election of any trustee they shall declare his office vacant and elect a person to fill the place -for the balance of the unexpired term. No trustee shall receive afiy pay or emolument other than actual ex¬ penses actually incurred in the discharge of his duties as such. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 93, by Mr. Foster: An ordinance to further restrict the power of the General Assembly in the passage of local laws. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly shall not have power to pass any local, private or special laws in any of the following enumer¬ ated cases, but shall provide for such matters only by general laws, viz: First—Concerning fees or compensation of any officer of this State, or of any county thereof. Second—^Defining crimes and misdemeanors and regulating the punishment thereof. Third—Authorizing or regulating the levy, assessment or col¬ lection of taxes of any kind by any county or municipal corpora¬ tion. . ■ 176 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Fourth—Authorizing any county or municipal corporation to incur indebtedness or to issue and sell bonds or other securities. Fifth—Chartering any private or municipal corporation, or amending the charters of any such now in existence. Sixth—Locating or changing county seats, except upon the organization of new counties. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. Ordinance No. 94, by Mr. Glover: To amend Section 12, Article I of the Constitution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled ; That Section 12, Article I of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: That right of trial by jury shall remain inviolate, but the num¬ ber to comprise the jury can be regulated by law. See Collins vs. State 83 p. 212 and 96 Ala. p. 571. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights. Ordinance No. 95, by Mr. Glover: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1, Article XIII of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: That it shall be the duty of the legislature to encourage by suitable means, the promotion of education, by establishing a uni¬ form system of free public schools, by taxation or otherwise, for all children between the ages of 7 and 21 years, but separate schools shall be provided for the children of citizens of African descent. Referred to Committee on Education. Mr. Oates took the chair. . Ordinance No. 96, by Mr. Graham (Montgomery) : An ordinance to amend Section 1 of Article V of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article V of the Constitution be amend¬ ed so as to read as follows: The Executive Department shall consist of a Governor, Secre¬ tary of State, State Treasurer, State Auditor, Attorney (General, Superintendent of Education, Commissioner of Agriculture and a sheriff for each county. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 97, by same: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 177 An ordinance to amend sections 23 and 24 of Article IV of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled; That Section 23 of Article IV of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: No special or local law shall be enacted for the benefit of individuals or corporations, in cases which are or can be provided for by a general law, or where the relief sought can be given by any court of this State; nor shall the operation of any general law be suspended by the General Assembly for the benefit of any individual, cor¬ poration or association. In passing upon questions arising under this sec¬ tion, the courts are authorized to determine the fact as to whether or not the purpose of the statute in question could have been accomplished under a general law. Sec. 2. Be it further ordained, that Section 24 of Article IV of said Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: No local or special law shall be passed on a subject which can be provided for by a general law, unless notice of the intention to apply therefor shall have been published in the locality where the matters or things to be affected may be situated; which notice shall be at least twenty days prior to the introduction into the General Assembly of such bill, and the evidence of such notice having been given shall be exhibited to the General Assembly and noted on the journal of the House in which such bill is introduced before it shall be passed. The courts must determine the fact of such notice and indulge no presump¬ tions in reference thereto; provided, that the provisions of this Constitu¬ tion, as to special or local laws, shall not apply to public or educational in¬ stitutions of or in this State, nor to industrial, mining, immigration or manu¬ facturing corporations or interests, or corporations for constructing canals, or improving navigable rivers or harbors of this State. Referred to the Committee on Legislative Department, Resolution No. 46, by Mr. Graham (Montgomery): Resolved, That the Secretary of State be and is hereby in¬ structed to furnish each member of this Convention a copy of the Code of Alabama (Civil and Criminal) taking his receipt therefor. Resolved, further, That immediately before this Convention shall adjourn sine die, the members thereof shall return to the Sec¬ retary of State the codes delivered to them, and take up their re¬ ceipts therefor. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. HOWELL—I move that the rules be suspended and that resolution be passed immediately. MR, O^NEAL—My impression is that the act providing for the holding of this Convention ordered the Secretary of State to furnish delegates with a Code. 178 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JACKSON—I desire to ask if a resolution was not in¬ troduced and referred to some committee requiring a certain num¬ ber of copies of Constitutions to be printed and placed on the desks. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—That was referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. JACKSON—Then I move that that Committee be in¬ structed by the Convention to report. A reading of the clause of the act calling the Convention in this regard was called for and it was read as follows; Section 9. Be it further enacted, That the delegates to said Convention shall be supplied with stationery and the use of the books, statutes, reports and documents the same as members of the General Assembly. MR. WILSON—I am requested by the Doorkeeper to an¬ nounce that the Codes are ready for delivery upon being receipted for. THE PRESIDENT—Further action, then is unnecessary. MR. GRAHAM (Montgomery)—Under the circumstances I ask leave to withdraw the resolution which I introduced. I have been sitting here for several days trying to keep up with the Con¬ vention and it is impossible to do so without having before me the Constitution of the United States and of Alabama. Being unable to secure them I introduced the resolution. The condition being as it is, I withdraw the resolution. Leave was granted. Ordinance No. 98, by Mr. Graham (Talladega) : To amend Section 25 of Article VI of the present Constitution, relating to the election of soI)icitors by the people. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That a solicitor for each Judicial Circuit in this State shall be elected by the qualified electors of such circuit every four years and such solicitors shall not be eligible to succeed themselves after having been once so elected. Such solicitors shall be learned in the law and shall reside in the respective circuits wherein elect¬ ed; provided, that the General Assembly may provide for County Solicitors of City Courts who shall be learned in the law and shall be elected by the qualified electors of the County where such court is established. The term of office of such solicitors shall not ex¬ ceed four years, and they shall be ineligible to succeed themselves after having been once so elected. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 179 Referred to Coinmittee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 99, by Mr. Gravson: To amend Section 2 of Article I. of the Constitution of 1875. Relating^ to Declaration of Rights. Be it Ordained, That Section 2 of Article I. of the Constitution of 1875, be, and the same is hereby amended to read as follows; Sec. 2. That all persons resident in this State, born in the United States, or naturalized, or who shall have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States and who have been bona fide citizens of the State of Alabama, or of the Uhited States for five years, are hereby declared citizens of the State o'f Alabama possessing equal civil and political rights. Ordinance No. 100, by same: An Ordinance to amend Section 5 of Article XIII. of the Constitution of 1875. Be it ordained, That Section 5, Article XIII. of the Constitution be and the same is hereby amended to read as follows: Section S. The income arising from the sixteenth section trust fund the surplus revenue fund, until it is called for by the United States Govern¬ ment, and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this Article, with such other moneys, to be not less than $100,000 per annum, as the General Assembly shall provide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools. Be it further ordained. That it shall be the duty of the General As¬ sembly to provide a law for an election, to be held in any township or other school district, upon petition of one-fourth of the registered voters of said township or district, not oftener than every two years, to determine whether or not a tax shall be levied upon the property of said township or district to supplement the public school fund; said petition to designate the tax rate which shall not exceed one-fourth of 1 per cent. Provided, that taxes col¬ lected from the property of the white race shall be appropriated as a supple¬ ment to the white public schools of that township or district, and that col¬ lected from the property of the negro race to be appropriated as a supple¬ ment to the public schools of the negro race in that township or school dis¬ trict. And provided, further, that the taxes collected from the property of corporations in said township or district shall be appropriated to the public schools of each race in the same proportion that the property of each race of that township or district bears to the property of the other race. Referred to Committee of Education. Resolution No. 47, by Mr. Greer (Calhoun) : Resolved, That a tax of $1.50 per head be and is hereby levied against all dogs, bitches, all other species of the canine family, and said tax to be levied and collected in same manner that present 180 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS poll tax is levied and collected, the same to be used exclusively for school purposes, and each school district, or township, is to have all of said funds collected in its own township or district, provided, however, that any person or persons convicted of steal¬ ing a dog, bitch, or other species of dog, shall be guilty of a mis¬ demeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not less than $50 nor more than $500, and also be sentenced to hard labor for the county for not more than six months at the discretion of the court, and all such fines collected shall go into the general school fund, and the same shall be distributed as may be prescribed by law. Referred to Committee on Education. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—There is no committee on Dogs, and the Chair would inquire what reference the delegate desires. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Refer it to the Committee on Edu¬ cation. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Is that a reflection on the Com¬ mittee on Education. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Without any reflection on any other Committee, I consider the Committee on Education the most in¬ telligent committee, and I asked for reference to it. Resolution No. 48. by Mr. Henders: Resolved, That no county site shall be removed except it be done by a majority of the voters of the county by ballot. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Resolution No. 49, by Mr. Greer (Calhoun): Resolved, That no bill shall be introduced in the General As¬ sembly during the last fifteen days of its session that is purely local in its nature. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 101, by Mr. Handley (Randolph) : An ordinance providing for a reduction in taxation and cer¬ tain contingencies. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That if at any time there is a surplus in the State Treas¬ ury above the needs of the State Government economically ad¬ ministered, it shall be the duty of the Governor to report that fact to the General Assembly, and in that event, it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to reduce the rate of taxation of three- fourths of one per centum allowed by this constitution in such pro¬ portion that such surplus bears to the ordinary expenses of the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 181 State Government honestly administered, provided the same can be done without detriment to the best interests of the State. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 102, by Mr. Heflin (Randolph) : An ordinance to confirm and ratify Section 12 of Article I of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people in convention assembled, That Section 12 of Article I of the Constitution of Alabama, which reads as follows : ''That the ri^ht of trial by jury shall remain inviolate’" is hereby ratified and confirmed. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights: Resolution No. 50, by Mr. Henderson (Pike) : Resolved, That 500 copies of the present Constitution be print¬ ed for the use of the members of this convention. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 51, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved, That the rate of interest in this State shall be fixed at 6 per cent per annum : Provided, any rate may be contracted for, not exceeding^ 10 per cent per annum, and that these rates shall not be increased or lessened by law. And that no days of ^race be hereafter allowed on commercial or negotiable paper. Referred to Committee on Banks and Banking. Resolution No. 52, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved, That a commission known as the Railroad Com¬ mission of Alabama be established by the new constitution. That it consist of one president and two associates. One to be elected by the people, one by the Senate, and one to be appointed by the Governor. They shall hold office for six years, but it shall be so arranged that one shall ^o out of office every two years. Said Commission shall have power: First—To exercise a js^eneral supervision over all railroads and other common carriers of this State. Second—To revise all tariff rates for transportation and ad¬ just the same to just and equitable compensation, and to prevent all unjust discrimination. Third—To require needful improvements, fencing and repairs, and to require the establishment and charges of stations. Fourth—To hear and determine all complaints by and against railroads and other common carriers, and its judgments, orders and decrees shall have the force and effect of judgments of law. 182 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and it shall have full power to enforce them as may be provided by law. Fifth—Said commission shall do and perform any duty required of it by law. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Resolution No. 53, by Mr. Henderson; Resolved, That the new constitution shall provide, that no person of African descent shall hold office in this State, except as a teacher in the public schools of his race. Nor shall any such person be drawn to serve as a juror in the courts of this State. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Resolution No. 54, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved. That the new constitution provide, that the Gov¬ ernor of this State shall not be eligible to the Senate of the United States while in office, nor within one year thereafter. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. MR. WEATHERLY—Does not Rule 23 require all resolutions to be referred to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair did not observe that these were resolutions, but thought they were ordinances. The references will be changed. MR. HOWZE—My friend has a printed rule which he is evi¬ dently reading from, and that rule has been changed and all reso¬ lutions go to the proper committees. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The first references were proper. Resolution No. 55, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved, That the new constitution provide, that no mem¬ ber of the General Assembly be allowed mileage for the distance traveled to and from the seat of government, where he travels by public conveyance free of charge. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution No. 56, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved, That Section 30 of the Declaration of Rights be amended to read as follows: That no title of nobility or hereditary distinction, privilege, honor or emolument, shall ever be granted or conferred in this State; and that shall be no unjust discrimination against the rights of persons or the rights of things, except in the exercise of the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 183 police ])o\vers, and of eminent domain of g'overnment, and to exempt from taxation property used for educational, charitable and relig'ioiis ])iirposes; and that no office shall ]>e created, the a])pointment to which shall last longer than good l)ehavior. Referred to the Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights. Resolution No. 57, by Mr. Henderson of Pike: Resolved, That no special tax shall be levied and collected to pay the salary of any officer of this State, nor to maintain any separate State Department. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Resolution No. 58, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved, That the homestead ol every resident of this State be exempt from any sale under execution or other legal process from any court, and from sale under mortgage, nor shall the same l)e waived in any manner for the payment of any claim for money. Provided, said homestead shall be liable for the purcliase money and for any lien created l)y law for labor and material furnished for improve¬ ments or betterments. If said homestead is not in any city, towm or village, it shall not exceed in area more than eighty acres and shall not be increased or lessened in area by law. If in any city, town or village it shall not ex¬ ceed in value two thousand dollars. There shall also be exempt in the same manner the following personal property: All household and kitchen furniture, all family portraits and pic¬ tures, all books used in the family, but said personal property shall be liable for payment of any lien for rent for any house used as a dwelling place for such family. There shall also be exempt from sale under execution or legal process issued from any court, personal property to be selected by the owner not to exceed in value one thousand dollars. But this exemption may be mort¬ gaged, sold by private sale or under legal process where tlic same is waived as provided by law, for the payment of any debt contracted since the adoption of this Constitution. Referred to Committee on Exemptions, Resolution No. 59, by Mr. Henderson: Resolved that the new Constitution provide that no bonded indebtedness shall be authorized by law to be created by any county, city, town, or other sub-division of the State, unless by the consent of a majority of the legally qualified voters residing within the district to be affected, such consent to be ascertained by an election, as may be provided by law. For the payment of bonds issued under this provision for educational purposes, no tax exceeding one-fourth of one per cent shall be levied and col- 184 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS lected upon the assessed value of the property within the district for which such bonds may issue. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 103, by Mr. Hinson: An ordinance to amend Section 24, Article IV, of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 24 of Article VI, of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows; No local or special law shall be passed on a subject which cannot be provided for by a general law, unless notice of the in¬ tention to apply therefor shall have been published in the locality where the matter or things to be effected may be situated, which notice shall be at least thirty days prior to the introduction into the General Assembly of such bill; the evidence of such notice shall be exhibited to the General Assembly before such act shall be passed, and the journals shall affirmatively show that such notice has been g^iven and the evidence thereof exhibited to the General Assembly. Referred to Committee on Leg^islative Department. MR. WEATHERLY—I submit to the chair that Rule 28 re¬ quires that all resolutions as distingfuished from ordinances shall be referred to the Committee on Rules and this is the exception which was eng^rafted at the request of the gfentleman from Mont- g^omery '‘except resolutions relating^ to the privilegfes of the Con¬ vention or of members, orders of the day, motions to discharg-e the Committee on Rules from the consideration of a resolution or to order it to report back by a day certain,'^ That is my recollec¬ tion of the rule as amended. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I call attention to the President to Rule 54 which defines the term “resolution'’ and the term “or¬ dinance" as used in these rules. Rule 54 says that the term reso¬ lution as used in the rules refers to some proposition which is not entended to be engrafted in the Constitution. Therefore when the rule that provides that all resolutions shall be referred to the Committee on Rules is read in the light of Rule 54 it must be construed that all resolutions which do not have for their purpose the engrafting of something into the Constitution shall be referred to the Constitution on Rules and any proposition which is meant to be made a part of the Constitution, whether the delegate calls it a resolution, a composition or what not, goes to the appropriate Committee and is not governed by the rule referred to by the gen¬ tleman from Jefferson. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The Chair is of the opinion that the delegate from Clarke puts the proper construction upon CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 185 the rule. Wherever the resolution refers to some matter that is a rule of proceeding or something other than something to go in the Constitution, it certainly is required to be sent to the Com¬ mittee on Rules but though it be in the form of a resolution when it pertains to changes in the Constitution it should be referred to the committee having jurisdiction over that branch of the Con¬ stitution. Ordinance No. 104, by Mr, Howell; Regulating the per diem and mileage of the General Assem¬ bly of Alabama. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled: That, from after the ratification of the Con¬ stitution now being formulated, the per diem of members of the General Assembly shall be five dollars, and fifty cents per mile in going to and returning from the seat of government, the distance travelled to be computed from the court house of each county by the usual route of travel, and mileage shall not be paid for but one trip at any one ssession. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 105, by Mr. Howze (Jefferson); An Ordinance to require salaries for Judges to be paid by the State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the salary of all Judges of the Supreme Court, Cir¬ cuit Court, Chancery Court, and all inferior courts having and exercising criminal jurisdiction, shall be paid by the State. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I am directed by the Rules Commit¬ tee to make a report. Under Rule 41 the Rules Committee may report at any time. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman is in order and the Clerk will read the report. The report was read as follows; The Committee on Rules have considered the resolutions here¬ inafter mentioned, and beg leave to report in regard thereto as follows; It reports, as a substitute for Resolution No. 11, offered by Mr. Rodgers of Lowndes, the following resolution, and recom¬ mends its adoption by the Convention: Resolved, That until otherwise ordered this Convention shall meet regularly at 10 o’clock, and stand adjourned at 1 o clock p. m. 186 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS It reported favorably Resolution No. 12, introduced by Mr. Bulger of Tallapoosa, and recommends its adoption by the Con¬ vention. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That whereas, Hon. Jno. B. Knox, the distinguished President of this Convention, delivered a most able address, out¬ lining our plans, policies and duties looking to the framing of a Constitution for our State, therefore be it Resolved, That the Secretary of the Convention be and is hereby directed to have printed 5,000 copies of the address for the use of the members of the Convention. It reports favorably that the substance of Resolution No. 15, offered by Mr. Watts of Montgomery, has already been embodied in the rules of the Convention, and further consideration thereof, becomes unnecessary. It reports favorably upon Resolution No. 14, introduced by Mr. Rodgers of Sumter, and recommends its adoption by the Con¬ vention. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of this Convention procure, and have printed in consolidated form for the use of its members 500 copies of those sections relating to suffrage in the Constitutions of the following States; Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania, North and South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana, California and Utah. The said resolutions hereinabove referred to are herewith re¬ turned to the Convention. MR. O’NEAL—I move to amend Resolution 14 by adding the dates at which these constitutions were adopted and also to in¬ corporate the general laws of the State of Massachusetts in refer¬ ence to suffrage and elections. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Only a portion of the laws of the State of Massachusetts will be needed. MR. O’NEAL—My motion is to incorporate the last statute of that State with reference to suffrage and elections. A vote being taken the amendment was adopted. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I move to amend Resolution 14 by adding “so much of the Constitution of the United States as re¬ lates to this subject.” THE CHAIRMAN PRO TEM.—Does the delegate mean the Twelfth, Thirteenth and Fourteenth amendments? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Yes, and also the first section of the article in regard to the qualifications of electors in elections for CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 187 Congress. It is only a small portion and it will be a ready refer¬ ence for every delegate to have before him. THE CHAIRMAN PRO TEM.—The delegate will reduce his amendment to writing. MR, PROCTOR—I would suggest to the gentleman from Jefferson that each delegate has at his desk a Code of Alabama which contains the very thing he wants. MR. SAM FORD—I rise to a point of inquiry. The other day we ordered some publications of the rules with certain other mat¬ ter. As one delegate to the convention, I would like to know when we are to get them. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The chair is informed that the printer is at work on that matter now and it will soon be ready. The amendment of Mr. Cunningham was reduced to writing and was read as follows: ‘‘Amend by adding so much of the Constitution of the United States as relates to suffrage and elec¬ tions. A vote being taken, the amendment was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will move to amend the re¬ port of the committee as to the time for adjournment, by striking out one o’clock and inserting “at will.” There may be occasions when we cannot adjourn at one, and I think we ought to be able to hold on as we please. A vote being taken, the amendment was lost on a division— ayes, 54; noes, 56. MR. KIRK—I move that the hour of adjournment be two o’clock instead of one. A vote being taken, this amendment was lost, and a further vote being taken, the report of the committee, as amended, was adopted. MR. GREER—Mr. President, I move that we adjourn. MR. BULGER—I move that this convention do now adjourn until tomorrow at 10 o’clock. PRESIDENT PRO TEM—Before putting the motion to ad¬ journ, the chair desires to make some announcements as to com¬ mittee meetings. The announcements were read by the clerk. PRESIDENT PRO TEM—I will state to the convention, if the delegate from Tallapoosa will withhold his motion for that purpose, that there is a communication I have, addressed to Mr. 188 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Knox, President of the Convention. If he will withhold his mo¬ tion, and it is desired the communication shall he read. Does the gentleman withhold the motion. Cries of leave. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Who is the author of the com¬ munication. PRESIDENT PRO TEM—I see it is signed Booker T. Wash¬ ington. MR. SAMFORD—I move that we adjourn. Cries of “read it.” MR. COLEMAN (Greene) — I was just going to remark that the author of that communication is the most noted man of his race in the State, and perhaps in the South, and under the cir¬ cumstances, as we are considering a question in which he and his race are vitally interested, I for one would be pleased to hear it read. I move that it be read to the convention. MR. WILLETT—I rise to a point of order. PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman will state his point of order. MR. WILLETT—We have just adopted a rule that this house adjourn at 1 o’clock. It is after one now and it stands, adjourned by that rule. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move to suspend the rules then. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—I think the report of the committee was adopted after 1 o’clock, and the chair will hold that the point is not well taken. Hereafter it may be. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I would like to suggest that we might hear it tomorrow. If the communication is of much im¬ portance it had better be postponed until morning. I merely make that as a suggestion. I move that it be postponed. Seconded. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President we are here, and I do not suppose it would take but a very short time to read it. PRESIDENT PRO TEM—'Does the gentleman from Sumter insist on the motion or withdraw it? MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I withdraw the motion. The paper was read and is as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 189 May 23, 1901. Hon. John B. Knox, President, Alabama State Constitutional Convention, Montgomery, Ala.: Dear Sir—I have been appointed chairman of a committee composed of Messrs. W. H. Councill, Henry A. Loveless, William Watkins, W. R. Petti- fold, Charles O. Boothe and Dr, S. S. H. Washington, to present the en¬ closed address representing the feelings and wishes of the colored people of the State of Alabama to your convention, and I very much hope that you can see your way clear to have it read to the convention and to make what¬ ever disposition of it you think proper. Yours truly, Booker T. Washington. To the Members of the Constitutional Convention: Since it is true that our race numbers in this State about 800,000 and there is no member of the race a member of your body, who can speak directly for us in an official capacity, we do not think that you will misun¬ derstand the object and spirit of this communication, for it is not sent to you in a dictatorial, fault-finding spirit, but with an earnest desire to be of some assistance in the performance of a grave and perplexing task. We make ourselves all the more bold to send you this communication be¬ cause members of your body in nearly every part of the State have ex¬ pressed a desire to hear from us. It could not be expected that the 800,000 colored people in this State would not have some interest in the deliberations of a body that is to frame the fundamental law under which both races are to be governed in this State, perhaps for all future time. Your petitioners are not stirrers-up of strife between the races, but we feel that the questions with which you are to deal are above and beyond party politics. Each of us, in some calling, is a hard working, tax-paying, and, we trust, law-abiding citizen, and we believe that we represent in a large measure the feelings and desires of the masses of our people in the State. We beg to your honorable body to keep in mind in dealing with the problems that grow out of our presence that, as a race, we did not force ourselves upon you, but were brought here, in most cases against our will, but nevertheless we recognize that since being here, we have been vastly benefited. We have gotten habits of industry, the English language, and the Christian religion, and at the same time, we have tried in an humble way to render valuable service to the white men in clearing the forests, building the railroads, cultivating the lands, working the mines, as well as in many forms of domestic service and in other activities. Our fathers and mothers have helped nurse you and your children, and when the male members of the family were away from home fighting in war that might have meant our continued enslavement, we remained at home, working your farms, supporting and protecting your helpless wives and daughters. When we have been called to perform any duty of citizenship, whether fighting a 190 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS foreign foe, working the public roads, or any other duty, we have tried to do our best. We beg of you to bear in mind that for more than twenty years the negro in this State has not, as a rule, been a disturbing or offensive element. Immediately after the war, we made mistakes just as would have been true of any people placed in the same position, but we have learned our lesson from those mistakes and they are not likely to be repeated. The changes wrought by time and the providence of God, it seems to us, place your body in a particularly responsible position. You assemble at a time when your actions will not be directed or restricted by any pressure from the Federal government or elsewhere. The North is almost unani¬ mous in its agreement that the future of the negro in a large degree rests with the South. Almost for the first time since freedom came to us, a law¬ making body assembles in the South, bearing the supreme law-making power of the State, and is left free to act entirely untrammeled by outside influ¬ ences. Almost for the first time, the negro is to rest his future in a large degree upon the conscience and intelligence of a great law-making body of a great Southern State. You have the power. The world will watch while you act. It requires little thought, effort or strength to degrade and pull down a weak race, but it is a sign of great statesmanship to encourage and lift up a weak and unfortunate race. Destruction is easy; construction is diffi¬ cult. There are those among your petitioners who have persistently urged the negro to learn to trust his future with his Southern white neighbor and that when the supreme test came he would receive justice at his hands. This is a crucial hour for those who have thus advised our race, but we do not be¬ lieve that our faith in you will be misplaced. We believe that the pos¬ session of great power will deepen your sympathy for the weak and dependent elements of our population. It seems to us on the whole, that the relations of the two races in this State are reasonably satisfactory, and we tremble with fear lest something will be done to disturb these relations and to bring discouragement and demoralization to our race. Of the greatest importance is the economic consideration. The greater portion of our people are settled upon the plantations in the cotton raising districts, while a large number of others is in the mining districts. These people are occupying and cultivating land that is largely owned by white people or operating other industries owned by white people. Still others are buying homes and thereby contributing to the welfare of the State. In most cases, they are a contented, producing, law-abiding people. Already, alarm is beginning to spread among them and their fears are being worked upon by emigration agents and exodus associations who are telling them that under the new Constitution the negro’s citizenship will be taken from him and that his schools will be virtually blotted out. These agencies expect in one way or another to reap gain by reason of something that you will do in your Convention. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 191 Anything that will unsettle and cause excitement of people at the present time, when, more than ever, in all parts of the State, the race is beginning to improve, to settle down to habits of thrift, economy and common sense, will not only prove injurious to our race, but to yours also. The history of all races proves that a contented, intelligent, friendly working class is the greatest possession of any State. The negro youth must have some incentive for right and useful living held out to him. Let the negro feel that no matter how intelligent or useful he makes himself, that there is no hope of reward held out before him, and there will be danger that he will become a beast, revelling in crime and a body of death about the neck of the State. In a thousand ways, the ignor¬ ant, shiftless, criminal negro will retard the progress of the white race. The negro is not seeking to rule the white man. In this State the negro holds not a single elective office. Whenever he votes, he usually votes for some white man and is learning more and more to vote for the best white man. There is in the last analysis a feeling of tenderness, good will and sympathy existing between the two races in this State, which the outside world can hardly understand or appreciate. We pray that this relation may not be disturbed. The negro does ask, however, that since he is taxed, works the roads, is punished for crime, is called upon to defend his country, that he have some humble share in choosing those who shall rule over him, especially when he has proven his worthiness by becoming a taxpayer and a worthy, reliable citi¬ zen. While the amount of direct taxes paid by the negro is small, all will acknowledge that he is a large factor in enabling some one else to pay taxes for the negro who rents a farm or a house not only pays the rent, but indi¬ rectly, the taxes also. We rejoice in that we have reached a period in our development when we can speak in frank but friendly terms of the objects of your convention, the chief aim of which is we trust, the wise and just government of the people of Alabama. In this high purpose, your petitioners agree and sympathize with you. We are all owners of property and tax payers and have the same interest in good government that you have. We know that the task before you is a delicate, trying and perplexing one. In this con¬ nection, we desire to add that, in our humble opinion, while there may be doubt and uncertainty in many directions, one thing is absolutely and un¬ mistakably clear—that nothing that is not absolutely just and fair, will be permanently successful. Any law which will merely change the name and form of fraud, or can be interpreted as meaning one thing when applied to one race and something else when applied to another race, will not in our opinion improve our present condition, but may unsettle the peace and thrift of our people and decrease the wealth and prosperity of Alabama. 192 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS While you deliberate and act, be assured that you will have the prayers and good wishes of thousands of black people in every part of our State. (Signed.) Respectfully submitted, Chas. O. Boothe, D. H. Tulane, Elijah Cook, John L. Thomas, M. H. Adams, Moses Dayis, H, J. A. Loveless, A. J. Wilborn, A. J. Wood, Henry Todd, J. W. Adams, S. Ross, John N. Brown, R. H. Herron, Alfred C. D'ungee, M.D. W. R. Pettiford, Booker T. Washington W. H. Council, S. S. H. Washington, M.D. R. B. Hudson, C. F. Steers, Sr., R. E. Lee, William Watkins, Ad. Wimbs. Mr. Greer renewed the motion to adjourn and on a vote it was carried and the convention adjourned. EIGHTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., May 28, 1901. The convention was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Anderson as follows: Almighty God, we adore Thee as the King eternal, immortal, invisible, infinite and unchangeable in Thy being, wis¬ dom, power, holiness, justness, goodness and truth, and we pray Thee that Thou wouldst fill all of our hearts this day with the consciousness of Thy presence, and that Thy holy spirit rule in every breast. We thank Thee that Thou hast watched over us and kept us during the dark watches of the night. Many others have been tossed to and fro upon their beds until the morning, racked with suffering and pain, but Thou hast permitted us to remain in health and strength, and brought Thy servants into this place of business. We pray Thee to add to all the gifts of Thy providence and Thy grace the gift of truly grateful hearts. Com¬ mand Thy blessing upon Thy servant, the Governor of this com¬ monwealth. We thank Thee for his restored health, and we pray Thee that Thou wouldst spare his life unto the work whereto Thou hast called him. Bless all that counsel with him. We pray for Thy blessing upon the judges of this State, that the fear of God may reign within them, and that they may judge righteously. Let Thy special blessing rest upon the members of this Constitu¬ tional Convention. May they realize the high and solemn obliga¬ tion of this office to which they have been called, and may they discharge its functions in the spirit of love of country, of duty and of God, and so, out of the deliberations of these Thy servants, we pray Thee that Thou wouldst bring a blessing to this great State. And Our Father, we pray for Thy blessing upon the loved ones CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 193 at home, that Thou wouldst watch over them and care for them during the absence of the heads of the homes, and may Thy peace abide in all of our hearts, and may Thy blessing rest upon our lives, through Jesus Christ, our Lord, Amen. The roll was called and showed the presence of 131 delegates. MR. LEIGH—I respectfully ask indefinite leave of absence for Mr. Burnett of Conecuh on account of sickness in his family. The leave was granted. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I ask leave of absence for Hon. John J. King of Marengo County until next Tuesday. The leave was granted. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr, President, rise to a question of privilege, I desire to have the times and places of meeting of the several committees announced. The secretary read the announcements as follows: Times and places designated for the meetings of the several committees: Suffrage, 9 a. m.—Senate Chamber. Education, 4 to 5 p. m.—Supreme Court Room at the call of the chairman. Legislation, 3 to 4 p. m.— 22 1-2 South Perry Street. Taxation, 5 p. m.—Supreme Court Library, Corporations, 4 p. m.—Senate Chamber. Local Legislation, 8 p. m.—Supreme Court Library at the call of the chairman. Executive, 4 p, m.—16 South Perry Street. Municipal Corporations, 8 p. m.—Place to be selected. Judiciary, 5:30 p. m.—Graham & Steiner’s office. Banking—Room 5 in Merchants Hotel, at call of chairman. Exemptions, 4:30 p. m.—House of Representatives at the call of the chairman. State and County Boundaries, 8 p. m.—Senate Chamber at the call of the chairman. Impeachments—^At the call of the chairman. Amending Constitution, 1 p. m.—Supreme Court Room at the call of the chairman. 194 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Schedule and Printing, 9:30 a. m.—^House of Representatives, Thomas W. Coleman. MR. JENKINS (Wilcox)—I desire to ask leave of absence for E. A. Graham of Montgomery for today. The leave was granted. MR. SAMFORD (Montgomery)—I move to fill the blank in the resolution in regard to the meeting of the Committee on Muni¬ cipal Corporations—in the law office of John W. A. Samford, Jr., at the corner of Perry and Dexter Avenue. PRESIDENT—Unless there be objection, that amendment will be made. MR. COLEMAN (Greene.)—^Those appointments or places were agreed upon by the several chairmen of the respective com¬ mittees—I know nothing mysejf. MR. SANFORD—It was left blank, and I was to inform them if I could get a room for them. PRESIDENT—Is that satisfactory to the chairman of the committee MR. COLEMAN—Yes. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I rise to a question of personal privilege. PRESIDENT—The gentleman will please state his question of personal privilege. MR. SAMFORD—Some of the reports of committees have my name, and some of them the name of my friend, Gen. John W. A. Sanford of Montgomery on the Committee on the Executive. I would like that the clerk read the names of the members on that committee. The secretary again read the names of the committee showing the name of Mr. Samford, not Sanford. PRESIDENT—The next business will be the report of the Committee on Journal. MR. HOWELL—Mr. President if I remember correctly, al¬ most every morning this week some gentleman on this floor has arisen and called attention to some error in the official stenographic reports of the proceedings of this body. I find in the proceedings of yesterday a very flagrant mistake. In the ordinance I intro¬ duced, regulating the mileage and per diem of the members of the General Assembly, that proposed to make the per diem five dollars per day, and the mileage five cents, the official report has it “fifty cents a mile”, going and returning from the capital. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 195 Now, sir, it is in no spirit of adverse criticism to the officer, because I think, takinjsf all things into consideration, he is doing elegant work, knowing, as I do, the difficult task, with the amount of work done and reported, to have everything correct; but these papers go to the public, as the official reports of the proceedings of this body, and they are presumed to be absolutely correct. Therefore, there ought to be some remedy in case these errors creep in, unavoi^bly it seems. There ought to be some remedy to correct them, and I offer a resolution to remedy that trouble and ask a suspension of the rules that it may be put upon its immediate pas¬ sage. The resolution was read as follows: No. 60, By Mr. Howell—^Whereas, Some errors have been found in the official reports of the published proceedings of this convention, and in order that these errors in the future may be corrected, be it therefore resolved, that the stenographer is hereby directed each day to correct any errors which may have been made in reporting the proceedings of the preceding day, under the ap¬ propriate head. MR. HOWELL—I will state my idea, Mr. President— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Cleburne moves that the rules be suspended and that the resolution be placed upon its immediate passage. MR. HOWELL—My idea is that at the close of the proceed¬ ings of the day to have a little supplement headed with the cor¬ rection of the errors of yesterday. That is my idea of the intention of the resolution. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I do not know that I have any ob¬ jection to the resolution proposed by the gentleman from Cleburne. In fact, it seems to me, that something of that kind may be neces¬ sary, but in order that the resolution may be properly considered in all its bearings, it seems to me it would be better to let it be referred for that reason. MR. HOWELL—It is a very plain, simple proposition. I suppose every member understands it. It is a very simple propo¬ sition, and if you will allow me, we are anxious to have this cor¬ rection made that occurred on yesterday, because they would want to hang me to a sour apple tree for proposing to give men fifty cents a mile to the capital and back. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cleburne that the rules be suspended. Upon a vote, the rules were suspended, and on a further vote the resolution was adopted. 196 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. WATTS—Mr. President, with the consent of the chair¬ man of the Committee on Local Legislation, I desire to change the place of meeting of that committee from the Supreme Court Library at 8 o’clock, to the office of Watts, Troy & Caffee, at 8 o’clock. THE PRESIDENT—Unless there be objection, the change will be made. MR. WILLETT—I desire to ask the unanimous consent of the House in order to make a motion that 300 copies of the report showing where the standing committees meet be printed, for the use of the members. It is very inconvenient to run around to find out where our respective committees meet, but we do not know where the Committee on Education, etc., meets, and we would have to go to some member of that committee before the adjourn¬ ment of the House to find out, and it seems to me that it ought to be printed so each one will have a pamphlet to know exactly if we should have any business before the committees. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman asks unanimous consent to have 300 copies of the report fixing the time of the meetings of the standing committees printed; is there objection. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Objection. MR. BROWNE—I would like to ask if the rules have been printed, and suggest, if they have not yet been printed, that they he incorporated into the rules. It could be very well done, and would be in convenient form. THE PRESIDENT—^The chair is informed that the rules are in the press. MR. BULGER—I object to the proposition stated by the gentleman from Pickens that 300 copies of pamphlets stating where these committees meet, be printed, because this stenograph¬ ic report that comes out tomorrow morning will contain the in¬ formation that is desired by the gentleman from Pickens to be put in this pamphlet; and it seems to me it would be an unnecessary expense to this convention and I, therefore, object. THE PRESIDENT—Objection being made, the motion is not in order at this time. The next order of business will be the report of the Committee on the Journal. The report was read, stating that the journal for the seventh day had been examined and found to be correct. The report, on motion, was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the heading of the journal of yesterday, if it is not dispensed with. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 19 ; MR. GREER (Calhoun) — I move that the reading of the journal of yesterday be dispensed with. The motion was carried. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I ask unanimous consent that an ordinance which was undoubtedly by error referred to my Com¬ mittee, be referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. It is document number 50, and relates solely to those who shall vote, and hold office, and I ask unanimous consent that this docu¬ ment now be referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. THE PRESIDENT—Unless there be objection the ordinance will be so referred. MR. FLETCHER (Madison) — I introduced an ordinance, number 89, which was referred to the Committee on Taxation which related exclusively to municipal corporations; I ask that it be withdrawn from that Committee and be referred to the Com¬ mittee on Municipal Corporations. THE PRESIDENT — Unless there is objection, ordinance No. 89 will be withdrawn from the Committee on Taxation, and referred to the Committee on Municipal Corporations. THE PRESIDENT—The Clerk will continue the call of the roll for the introduction of ordinances, etc., where we left off on yesterday. Ordinance 106, by Mr. Jackson; To readopt Section 10 of Article XIII of the Constitution of 1875 relating to the removal of the State University or the Agri¬ cultural and Mechanical College. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled, that the General Assembly shall have no power to change the location of the State University or the Agricultural and Mechanical College as now established by law, except upon a vote of two-thirds of the members of the General Assembly, taken by yeas and nays and entered upon the journals. Referred to Committee on Education. Resolution No. 61, by Mr. Jackson. Resolved, That the respective committees in charge of the different subjects to be dealt with by this Convention be instruct¬ ed to adhere to, and this Convention pledges itself to the following purposes: 1. That suffrage shall be so regulated as not to conflict with the Constitution of the United States. 198 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 2. That the rate of taxation by State, counties and munici¬ palities shall not exceed the limit fixed by the present Constitu¬ tion of the State. 3. That the qualifications for suffrage shall be so framed as not to deprive any white man of the right to vote, except for in¬ famous crime. 4. That the provisions of the present constitution relating to exemptions of real and personal property shall remain unchanged. 5. That the State Capitol shall remain at Montgomery, and that no power or authority be granted by this Constitution or any legislature to provide for its removal. 6. That the rights and privileges conferred by the present Constitution upon corporations shall not be enlarged. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. JACKSON—There has been several resolutions introduced here relating to promises and pledges made by the delegates in this Convention which have been referred to the different com¬ mittees. One, however, was adopted by this House last week promising to refer the Constitution, when framed, to^ a vote of the people of Alabama for their ratification or rejection. Now, in the language of the distinguished gentleman from Jefferson, I move a suspension of the rules and that this resolution be put upon its immediate passage. MR. VAUGHAN—Some days ago I introduced a resolution very similar to that and that resolution was referred to a Com¬ mittee, I don’t know which one. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution was referred to the Com¬ mittee on Rules. MR. VAUGHAN—I think that Committee ought to report the resolution. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to sus¬ pend the rules. MR. ROGERS—Do you say that resolution is not debatable. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to sus¬ pend the rules. MR. ROGERS—And it is not debatable? THE PRESIDENT—That is the decision of the Chair. A vote being taken the rules was lost. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution will be referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Election. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 199 MR. CUNNINGHAM—I sugg’est to the Chair, not as an in¬ terpretation of the Chair’s duty, that as that relates to the entire business of the Convention, it mig^ht properly be referred to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT — Unless there be objection, the Chair will order the resolution, at the sugfg'estion of the g^entleman from Jefferson, to be referred to the Committee on Rules. It seems to cover quite a large number of subjects dealt with by quite a number of Committees of the Convention. Resolution No. 62, by Mr. Jenkins: Refers to State Colleges and Institutions. Resolved, That a committee be raised to consist of fifteen members to be appointed by the President to take into considera¬ tion all matters pertaining to the University of Alabama, the Girls’ Industrial School for white girls, the Alabama Polytechnic Insti¬ tute, and other State colleges and institutions of learning. Said committee to be styled and called the Committee on State Col¬ leges and Institutions. Referred to Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution will be referred to the Committee on Education. MR. JENKINS — I ask its reference to the Committee on Rules. We have a rule that all resolutions shall go to the Com¬ mittee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT — Where they relate to matters being dealt with by different committees the understanding of the chair is that they should be referred to their proper committees. This matter refers to education in the opinion of the Chair and should be referred to that committee. MR. JENKINS—I make the point that the rules say all reso¬ lutions shall go to the Committee on Rules. This is a matter for the government of the Convention. MR. OATES—I think the delegate who offers the resolution is slightly mistaken. The rule to which he refers is so modified that resolution pertaining to any particular matter involving a change should be referred to the Committee in charge of such committees. THE PRESIDENT—That is the understanding of the Chair and the Chair overrules the point of order but will call for a read¬ ing of the resolution again as the Chair may not have caught it exactly and so be in error. The resolution was again read. 200 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The Chair failed to catch the first sen¬ tence. The Chair will reconsider the ruling and will refer the reso¬ lution to the Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 63, by Mr. Jones (Bibb): Refers to representation: 1. Be it resolved that representation in the lower House of the General Assembly of this State shall be based on the entire population of Alabama, and that no County have less than one representative to be elected by the legal voters of this State every four years. 2. That the Senate of Alabama shall be composed of mem¬ bers from each County to be elected every four years by the quali¬ fied electors of this State. Referred to Committee on Representation. Resolution No. 64, by same; Relates to suffrage. Be it resolved that no man of foreign birth be entitled to the rights of suffrage in the State of Alabama until he has become a bona fide citizen of the United States under the provisions of the revised statutes of the United States. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 107, by Mr. Jones (Montgomery). An ordinance to amend Sections 9, and 10 of Article XIII of the constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled that Sections 9 and 10 of Article XIII of the Constitu¬ tion be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 9. The State University and the Agricultural and Me¬ chanical College shall each be under the management and control of a Board of Trustees. The Board of Trustees for the State Uni¬ versity and the Board of Trustees for the Agricultural and Me¬ chanical College shall each consist of nine members, selected as follows: Two of the trustees in each of said Boards shall be ap¬ pointed by the Governor with the advice and consent of the Sen¬ ate, and vacancies occurring in such trustees during the recess may be filled by appointment of the Governor, expiring at the end of the next session of the General Assembly. Two of the Trustees in each of said Boards shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State. Two of the Trustees of each of said Boards shall be elected by the Alumni, respectively of the State University and the Agricultural and Mechanical College, under such rules and regu¬ lations as may be prescribed by law. The remaining three trus- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 201 tees in each of said Boards shall be elected by the six Trustees hereinabove provided for. The terms of the trustees provided herein shall begin upon the first day of March, 1903. At the first meeting of the Trustees each Board shall be divided by lot into three classes; the seats of the first class shall be vacant at the ex¬ piration of two years; those of the second class in four years and those of the third class in six years, so that one-third shall there¬ after be chosen biennially. Vacancies in the Trustees elected by the Alumni or by the people shall be filled by appointment of the Governor, and the persons so appointed shall hold office until the next general election in case of Trustees elected by the people, and until the next election by the Alumni in case of Trustees elected by them. No Trustee shall receive any pay or emolument other than his actual expenses incurred in the discharge of his duties as such. The Governor and Superintendent of Education shall each ex-officio be a member of each of said Board, and the Gov¬ ernor shall be ex-officio president of said Board. Sec. 10, The General Assembly shall have no power to change the location of the State University or the Agricultural and Me¬ chanical College as now established by law, except upon a request of a majority of their Trustees and by a vote of two-thirds of the members of the General Assembly taken by yeas and nays enter¬ ed upon the journal. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 108 by Mr. Jones (Montgomery) : An ordinance to amend Section 21 of Article VI. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 21 of Article VI of the Constitution be amended to read as follows: Sec. 21. Registers in Chancery shall be elected by the quali¬ fied voters of the district and shall hold office for the term of six years, and no person shall be elected Register, or employed by him as clerk, unless he has been a resident citizen of the district for at least one year prior to his election or employment. Referred to Judiciary Committee, Ordinance No. 109, by Mr. Jones (Montgomery.) An ordinance to amend Section 14 of Article V of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, that Section 14 be amended by adding after the last word in said section the following: Whenever in any veto message the Governor shall propose the specific amendment or amendments which, if made would re- 202 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS move his objection, the house to which said veto is sent, instead of proceeding to consider whether the bill shall be passed over the veto, may adopt the amendment so recommended and send the bill to the other house, which may adopt said amendment, and both houses concurring in the amendment, the bill shall be sent again to the Governor; but if either house refuse to adopt the amendment or amendments so suggested it shall notify the other, and thereupon the house in which the bill originated shall proceed to reconsider, and such further Proceedings taken as required by Section 14 of this Article. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 110, by Mr. Jones (Montgomery.) An ordinance to provide for the safe and productive use of surplus public funds in the treasury. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That whenever there shall be in the Treasury of the State an amount of money more than sufficient for the present needs of the government, and which can be safely loaned out for any definite time, the Governor, Auditor and Treasurer, or the Governor and either the Auditor or the Treasurer, may loan out such suplus on call, or for such length of time, not exceeding six months, and at such rate of interest as they may deem advisable, upon the lender’s depositing with the Treasurer of the State bonds of the United States or of the State of Alabama sufficient in value to cover the amount of such loan and the interest agreed to be paid thereon, and any expense which may be incurred in selling said bonds, if the loans are not paid at maturity. No such loans shall be made until at least two days public notice shall have been given by publication, in some newspaper published at the capital, of the terms on which the State desires to make the proposed loan; and if there is more than one application for the money, the bid or application most favorable to the State shall be accepted. A record of all such loans, and bids if any, shall be kept in the Treasurer’s office and published in the Treasurer’s report. Referred to Committee on Banks and Banking. Resolution No. 65, by Mr. Jones (Montgomery): Resolved, That a special committee of nine be raised to take into consideration and report whether any, and if so, what, classes of public officers be allowed to use free passes, and under what circumstances; and whether any, and if so, what classes, of public officers should be permitted the benefit of special rates, and if so, to what extent; and what alteration or amendment is advisable in the scope of the present provision of the Constitution on the sub¬ ject, or the mode of their enforcement. Referred to Committee on Rules. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 203 Resolution No. 66 , by Mr. Jones (Montgfomery): Resolved, That provision should be made in the article on the Executive Department, constituting^ a Board of Arbitration for the arbitration and settlement of disputes between employers and employees. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Resolution No. 67, by Mr. Jones (Montg*omery) : First—That the fundamental principles of justice and free gfovernment are violated, when the benefits the citizen derives from money raised by taxation, are ascertained and measured ac¬ cording^ to the poverty or riches of the class or race to which he belong-s, or the proportionate amount of taxes paid by such race or class. Second—That it is not within the power of the State under the Constitution of the United States, to raise money by taxation for school purposes, and provide that the children of any race or class shall receive the benefit only of the amount of money de¬ rived from the taxes on the property of the race or class to which they belong. Referred to Judiciary Committee. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move that that be referred to the Committee on Judiciary. THE PRESIDENT—The request is made and it will be so referred. Ordinance No. Ill by Mr. Jones (Wilcox): An ordinance to amend Article IX of the Constitution on Representation so as to read as follows: REPRESENTATION. 1. The whole number of Senators shall be not less than one-fourth, or more than one-third, of the whole number of representatives. 2. The House of Representatives shall consist of not more than one hundred members. 3. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly, at its first session after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, and after each subsequent decennial census, to fix by law the number of Repre¬ sentatives and apportion them among the several counties of the State, ac¬ cording to the number of inhabitants in them respectively; provided that each county shall be entitled to at least one Representative. 4. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly at its first session after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, and 204 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS after each subsequent decennial census, to fix by law the number of Sena¬ tors and to divide the State into as many Senatorial districts as there are Senators, which districts shall be as nearly equal to each other in the num¬ ber of inhabitants as may be, and each shall be entitled to one Senator and no more; and which districts^ when formed, shall not be changed until the next apportioning session of the General Assembly after the next decennial census of the United States shall have been taken. No county shall be divided be¬ tween two districts and no district shall be made of two or more counties not contiguous to each other. 5. Should the decennial census of the United States, from any cause, not be taken, or if when taken, the same as to this State is not full and satis¬ factory, the General Assembly shall have power at its first session after the time shall have elapsed for the taking of said census, to provide for an enumeration of all the inhabitants of this State, and once in each ten years thereafter, upon which it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to make the apportionment of representatives and senators as provided in this article. 6. The apportionment of representatives among the several counties, until the next apportioning session of the General Assembly after the next decennial census of the United States shall have been taken, shall be as fol¬ lows: The counties of Autauga, Baldwin, Bibb, Blount, Butler, Cherokee, Chilton, Choctaw, Clay, Cleburne, Coffee, Colbert, Conecuh, Coosa, Coving¬ ton, Crenshaw, Cullman, Dale, DeKalb, Elmore, Escambia, Etowah, Fay¬ ette, Franklin, Geneva, Greene, Lamar, Lawrence, Limestone, Macon, Marion, Marshall, Monroe, Pickens, Randolph, Shelby, St. Clair, Walker, Washing¬ ton and Winston, shall have each one representative; the counties of Bar¬ bour, Bullock, Calhoun, Chambers, Clarke, Hale, Henry, Jackson, Lauder¬ dale, Lee, Lowndes, Madison, Marengo, Morgan, Perry, Pike, Russell, Sumter, Talladega, Tallapoosa, Tuscaloosa and Wilcox shall each have two representatives; the counties of Dallas and Mobile shall each have three representatives; the County of Montgomery shall have four representa¬ tives; and the County of Jefferson shall have six representatives. 7. The Senatorial Districts, until the next apportioning session of the General Assembly, after the decennial census of the United States shall have been, shall be as follows: First District, Lauderdale and Limestone; Sec¬ ond District, Law^rence and Morgan; Third District, Winston, Blount and Cullman; Fourth District, Madison; Fifth District, Jackson and Marshall; Sixth District, St. Clair and Etowah; Seventh District, Calhoun and Cle¬ burne; Eighth District, Talladega and Clay; Ninth District, Randolph and Chambers; Tenth District, Tallapoosa and Coosa; Eleventh District, Tusca¬ loosa; Twelfth District, Lamar, Fayette and Walker; Thirteenth District, Jefferson; Fourteenth District, Pickens and Sumter; Fifteenth District, Chilton, Shelby and Elmore; Sixteenth District, Autauga and Lowndes; Seventeenth District, Butler, Conecuh and Covington; Eighteenth District, Perry and Bibb; Nineteenth District, Clarke, Choctaw and Washington, Twentieth District, Marengo; Twenty-first District, Monroe, Escambia and Baldwin; Twenty-second District, Wilcox; Twenty-third District, Henry, Dale and Geneva; Twenty-fourth District, Barbour; Twenty-fifth District, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 205 Pike, Coffee and Crenshaw; Twenty-sixth District, Macon and Bullock; Twenty-seventh District, Lee and Russell; Twenty-eighth District, Mont¬ gomery; Twenty-ninth District, DeKalb and Cherokee; Thirtieth District, Dallas; Thirty-first District, Colbert, Franklin and Marion; Thirty-second Dis¬ trict, Greene and Hale; Thirty-third District, Mobile. Referred to Committee on Representation. Ordinance 112, by Mr. Kirk; An ordinance to amend Sections 3, 5 and 9 of Article IV of the Constitution. Section 3 shall be amended to read as follows: Senators and Representatives shall be elected by the qualified electors on the first Monday in Augfust, 1902, and every four years thereafter, unless the General Assembly shall change the time of holding elections. The terms of the office of Senators and Repre¬ sentatives shall be four years, commencing on the day after their election. Section 5 shall be amended to read as follows: The General Assembly shall meet in regular session at the Capitol, in the Senate Chamber and in the hall of the House of Representatives on the Tuesday after the second Monday in No¬ vember, 1902, and every four years thereafter, or on such other day as may be prescribed by law, (except in cases of destruction of the Capitol, or epidemics, when the Governor may convene them at such place in the State as he may deem best), and shall continue in session not more than fifty days, and at said regular session it shall not consider any matter or law of a local character; and any local measure enacted at such regular session shall be void. On the da}^ following the adjournment of the regular session, the Gen¬ eral Assembly it shall assemble at the same place in special ses¬ sion and continue in session for a term not to exceed twenty days, and may at such session consider measures and laws of a local character. That Section 9 be amended by striking out all of said section except the latter clause thereof, which section shall read as follows: Whenever a vacancy shall occur in either House of the Gen¬ eral Assembly, the Governor shall issue a writ of election to fill such vacancy for the remainder of the term. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 113, by Mr. Kirkland: To amend Section 2 of Article II of the Constitution of the State of Alabama. 206 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in convention assembled, That Section 2 of Article II of the present Constitution be amended as follows; Section 2. The boundaries of the several counties of this State, as heretofore established by law, are hereby ratified and confirmed. The General Assembly may, by a vote of two-thirds of both houses thereof, arrang^e and designate boundaries for the several counties of this State, which boundaries shall not be al¬ tered except by a like vote; but no new counties shall be hereafter formed of less extent than five hundred square miles; and no ex¬ isting county shall be reduced to less extent than five hundred square miles, and no new county shall be formed which does not contain sufficient number of inhabitants to entitle it to one Repre¬ sentative under the ratio of repiesentation existing; at the time of its formation, and leave the county or counties from which it is taken with the required number of inhabitants entitling; such county or counties to separate representation. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 114, by Mr. Kirkland: To establish a Railroad Commission for the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in convention assembled, That a commission known as the Railroad Commissioners of the State of Alabama, consisting; of the Presi¬ dent and two associates, who shall be competent persons, and who shall be elected by the people of the State of Alabama, is hereby established. Said Railroad Commission shall be elected for a term of four years, and shall not be eligible to succeed themselves. They shall be paid a salary to be fixed by law out of the State Treasury and shall be clothed with power to regulate and fix the freight and passenger tariffs on all railroads operating within the State of Alabama within all points within said State. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 115, by Mr. Kirkland: To amend Section 6 of Article IV of the present Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 6 of Article IV of the present Constitution of the State of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Section 6. The pay of members of the General Assembly shall be four dollars per day and three cents per mile in going to and returning from the seat of government, to be computed by the nearest usual route traveled; provided, that no member shall be paid mileage more than one time during any sitting of the Gen¬ eral Assembly. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 207 Ordinance No. 116, by Mr. Kirkland: Relates to mileage to members of the General Assembly and others. Be it ordained by the people in convention assembled, That members of the General Assembly, Presidential electors, witnesses before any court, and others who may be entitled to draw mileage, as compensation, in part, for their services shall be allowed the sum of three cents per mile each way, and no more, to be computed by the route most usually traveled. Referred to Judiciary Committee, Ordinance No. 117 by Mr. Kirkland: To amend Section 5 of Article IV of the present Constitution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention As¬ sembled, That Section 5 of Article IV of the present Constitution be amended so as to read as follows; Section. 5. The General Assembly shall meet every four years, at the Capitol, in the Senate Chamber and in the Hall of the House of Representatives, except in cases of destruction of the Capitol, or epidemics, when the Governor may convene them at such place in the State as he may deem best, on the day specified in this Con¬ stitution, or on such other days as may be prescribed by law; and shall not remain in session longer than sixty days at the first session under this Constitution, nor longer than fifty days at any subsequent sessions. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 118, by Mr. Kirkland: To amend Section 16 of Article V of the present constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 16 of Article V of the present constitution of the State of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Section 16. The President of the Senate and Speaker of the House of Representatives, shall, during the time they respectively administer the government, receive the same compensation which the Governor would have received if he had been employed in the duties of his office. Provided, that if the General Assembly shall be in session during the time they are administering the govern¬ ment, they, or either of them shall receive no compensation as members of the General Assembly while acting as Governor. And provided further, that the Governor, while the President or Speak¬ er of the House of Representatives, or either of them is adminis¬ tering the government shall receive no compensation ks Governor. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. 208 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolution No. 68, by Mr. Kirkland: Be it resolved by the people of the State of Alabama, in con¬ vention assembled. That the General Assembly of Alabama shall have the power and it shall be their duty, to pass such laws, the violation of which, shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary, as shall effectually prevent the business or profession of lobbying with the members thereof for any purpose. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 119, by Mr. Locklin: Relating to suffrage. Be it ordained, etc., That the qualifications for electors in this State shall be the same as prescribed in Article VIII of the present constitution, except as hereinafter provided: First—That each male citizen above the age of 21 years shall pay a poll tax of $2 per year, before he is entitled to register. Second—That all registrations of voters for elections shall be completed at least six months in advance of such elections re¬ spectively. Third—That no elector shall be registered who has not paid all poll taxes due by him, subsequent to the adoption of this con¬ stitution, up to a period of not less than twelve months preceding the elections at which he is registered to vote. Fourth—That registration officers shall be furnished by the tax collectors with certified transcripts of the records of their of¬ fices showing who have paid poll taxes and upon what dates within a period of twelve months preceding the times prescribed by law for registration; and the General Assembly may prescribe other methods of proof of payment of such taxes. Fifth—That it shall be optional with any citizen whether he pays poll taxes charged against him. Sixth—That all poll taxes collected shall go to the support of public schools in the respective counties in which they are col¬ lected. Seventh—That all poll taxes paid by white men shall go to the support of white schools only; and all paid by colored men to colored schools only. Referred to Committee on Suffrage, and Elections. MR. LOWE (Lauderdale)—Mr. President—I yield my call to Mr. Sanders of Limestone. Resolution No. 69, by Mr.- Sanders: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 209 A resolution as to the sense of this convention touching suf¬ frage reform in Alabama. Resolved, First—That it is the sense of this convention that the suffrage reform demanded by the conditions prevailing in Alabama, and promised to the people of this State by this conven¬ tion, can be best accomplished in the recognition of the principle involved in the exception clause, in the suffrag^e provisions ol the constitution of the States of Louisiana and North Carolina. Second—That in justice to the white race of the State, and in order to avoid the paralysis which would result in withdrawing from the youths of Alabama all stimulus to qualify themselves for the discharge of the privileges, duties and obligations of an elector, some limit should be fixed, at the expiration of which all white males in this State, thereafter to arrive at the voting age, shall possess the general qualifications which may be prescribed by this convention for the exercise of the elective franchise. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 120, by Mr. Macdonald: To amend Section 7 of Article Xl, of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama.—Refers to Municipal Corporations. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 7 of Article XI, be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 7. No city, town or other municipal corporation other than provided for in this article, shall levy or collect a larger rate of taxation in any one year, on the property thereof, than one-half of 1 per centum of the value of such property as assessed for State taxation during the preceding year. Provided that for the payment of debts existing at the time of the ratification of the Constitution of Alabama in 1875, and the interest thereon, an additional rate up to 1 per centum may be collected, and the sum so collected shall be used solely in payment of such debts and in¬ terest and shall not be used by any municipality for any other purpose whatever. Sec. 8. No city, town, or other municipal corporation shall have power to issue for any purpose except in renewal of the present bonded indebtedness of said city, town, or other municipal corporation, except on a vote of a majority of its voters at an elec¬ tion held solely for that purpose in accordance with an act of the Legislature authorizin.g such election. And no such city, town or other municipal corporation shall have power to issue bonds for any purpose save for refunding its bonded indebtedness existing at the time of the adoption of this Constitution when its outstand¬ ing bonds amount to 10 per centum of the value of its property as assessed for taxation. ^ 210 OFFICIAI, PROCEEDINGS Sec. 9. No city, town, or other municipal corporation shall have power to make, levy or collect any special or local assessment for streets or other local improvements on the property situated within its limits except in exact proportion to the benefit arising? from such improvement to each separate piece of property. And no such assessment shall be made until the consent of the owners of a majority in value of the property upon which such assessment is proposed, is obtained. And no property shall be sold for the payment of such assessment, except under a decree of a court of competent jurisdiction, ascertaining: the amount of such benefit, and the burden showing benefit shall be on the city, town, or other municipal corporation making the assessment. Provided, that no such assessment shall exceed 5 per centum of the taxable value of the property on which the same is levied, and no greater amount shall be collected in any one year than one-half of 1 per centum on the taxable value of said property. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 121, by Mr. Macdonald: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 3 of Article XIV, of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 3. The General Assembly shall not remit the forfeiture of the charter of any corporation, nor shall the General Assembly alter or amend any charter, or pass any general or special law for the benefit of such corporation, other than in execution of a trust created by law, or by a contract, except on the condition that such corporation shall thereafter hold its charter subject to the pro¬ visions of this Constitution. And in every case where the charter of any corporation shall be forfeited by a judgment of any court of this State, having jurisdiction of a proceeding for such for¬ feiture, it shall be the duty of any court with equity jurisdiction, within the county where such corporation shall have had its prin¬ cipal place of business on the petition of the plaintiff or petitioner in the proceeding wherein such forfeiture is declared, or by any citizen of this State, should such plaintiff or petitioner fail to make application therefor to such court, to appoint a receiver or re¬ ceivers of all the property of such corporations who shall, under the direction of the court of his or their appointment, conduct and wind up the business of such corporation. Provided, that no officer or stockholder of the corporation, whose charter has been so forfeited, shall be appointed such receiver. Referred to the Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 122, by Mr. McMillan, (Wilcox) : Relates to the formation of new Constitution. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 211 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no act of the General Assembly creating: or forming: new counties shall become a law until same shall have beeri sub¬ mitted to the qualified voters residing: within the boundaries of the county to be formed and must be approved by a majority of such electors voting: on same, and such act shall specify the pro¬ posed boundaries. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 123, by Mr. McMillan (Wilcox) : Relating: to the removal of county sites. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no act of the General Assembly changing: the county site of any county shall become a law until the same shall have been submitted to the qualified voters of the county at an election, and approved by a majority of such electors voting on same, and such act shall specify the proposed new location. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Resolution No. 70, by Mr. Malone (Henry): Fixing the time for holding the general election. Be it resolved. That the general election shall be held on the first Tuesday in November of the even numbered years, unless the General Assembly shall change the time of holding elections. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 124, by Mr. Maxwell (Tallapoosa) : An ordinance to repeal Section 8 of Article XI of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That Section 8 of Article XI of the Constitution of Alabama be and the same is hereby repealed. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 125, by Mr. Maxwell: An ordinance to amend Section 1 of Article VII of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That Section 1 of Article VII be amended so as to include the Commissioner of Agriculture. 212 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 126, by Mr. Maxwell: To create the office of Lieutenant-Governor of Alabama and to define the qualifications and duties of such officer. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that the office of Lieutenant Governor is hereby created. Section 1. The Lieutenant Governor shall be at least 30 years of age when elected, and shall have been a citizen of the United States ten years, and a resident of this State at least seven years next before the day of his election. Sec. 2. The Lieutenant Governor shall be President of the Senate; and in case of the impeachment of the Governor, his re¬ moval from office, death, resignation, or refusal to qualify, absence from State or other disability, the Lieutenant Governor shall exer¬ cise all the power and authority appertaining to the office of Gov¬ ernor until the time appointed for the election of Governor shall arrive, or until the Governor who is absent or impeached, shall return or be acquitted, or other disability be removed. Sec. 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall, during the time he administers the government receive the same compensation which the Governor would have received if he had been employed in the duties of his office; provided, that if the General Assembly be in session during such absence he shall receive no compensation as President of the Senate while acting as Governor. Sec. 4. The pay of the Lieutenant-Governor shall be $-per day, and ten cents per mile in going to and returning from the seat of government, to be computed by the nearest usual route travelled while engaged in discharging his duties as President of the Senate. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 127, by Mr. Maxwell: To amend Section 8 of Article IV of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section 8 of Article IV of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be so amended as to read as follows: The House of Representatives, at the beginning of each regu¬ lar session, and at such other times as may be necessary shall elect one of its members as Speaker, who shall hold his office until his successor is elected and qualified. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 128, by Mr. Merrill: To declare the status of married women. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 213 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : The leg;islature shall never create by law any distinction between the rights of men and women, to acquire, own, enjoy and dispose of property of all kind or the power to contract in reference thereto. Married women are hereby fully emancipated from all disability on account of coverture. But this shall not pre¬ vent the legislature from regulating contracts between husband and wife; nor shall the legislature be prevented from regulating the mortgaging or sale of homesteads. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 129, by Mr. Miller (Wilcox) : To amend Section 8 of Article IV of the Constitution. Election of President of the Senate and Speaker of the House, to amend Section 8 of Article IV of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section 8 of Article IV of the Constitution be amend¬ ed so as to read as follows: The Senate, at the beginning of each regulaj- session and at such other times as may be necessary shall elect one of its mem¬ bers President thereof; and the House of Representatives at the beginning of each regular session, “and at such other time as may be necessary,” shall elect one of its members as Speaker; and the President of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Repre¬ sentatives shall hold their offices respectively until their successors are elected and qualified. Each House shall choose its own officers and shall judge of the election returns and qualifications of its members. Note.—The words in quotations constitute the new matter of the amendment and is put in to meet objections raised to present revenue bill because of the election of Speaker near close of the session. Referred to the Committee on Legislative Department. Mr. Moody yielded his turn to Mr. Ashcraft, Ordinance No. 130, by Mr. Ashcraft: To alter and amend Article XIII of the present Constitution relating to education. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in convention assembled, That Article XIII of the present Constitution of Alabama, re¬ lating to education, be amended so as to read as follows: 1. The General Assembly shall establish, organize and maintain a liberal system of public schools throughout the State for the equal benefit of the children thereof between the ages of seven and twenty-one years; 214 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and such public schools shall be maintained for a period of not less than four scholastic months in each year. 2. Separate schools shall be provided for white and colored children, and it shall by the duty of the County Superintendent of Education in each county, by and with the advice and consent of the Court of County Commissioners, or body of like jurisdiction, to organize the white people of the county into white school districts, and the colored people of the county into colored school districts, according to their respective needs and advantages and without reference to each other as to territorial boundaries. 3. A trustee, or trustees, or Board of Education, as may be provided by law, shall be selected for white school districts from the white residents of such district and, for the colored school districts from the colored resi¬ dents of such district; provided, no incorporated town or city maintaining a system of public schools as provided by law, shall be separated into dis¬ tricts without the consent of the Mayor and Board of Aldermen of such town or city. 4. For the purpose of building, enlarging, improving or furnishing school houses in any district, or for the purpose of supplementing the general school funds received from Federal, State, county, municipal and other sources, the Court of County Commissioners, or body of like jurisdiction, shall levy a special assessment of not more than one-half of one per centum upon the property of white persons situated in the district, if it be for the benefit of a white school district, or upon the property of colored persons situated in the district, if it be for the benefit of a colored school district; provided, no such levy shall be made unless the same be sanctioned by a majority of the votes cast at an election held for that purpose. At such election in a white school district, only qualified white voters shall be permit¬ ted to vote, and, in a colored school district only qualified colored electors shall be permitted to vote. It shall be the duty of the Probate Judge to or¬ der such election upon the petition of not less than one-fifth of the voters who will be entitled to vote at such election. The order for such election shall state the purposes for which it is proposed to make the assessment, the rate of the proposed assessment and the number of years during which such assessment is proposed to be made. Notice of such election shall be given and the election held in such manner as may be provided by law. 5. Every corporation owning property in this State shall, after the first day of October, and before the thirty-first day of December of each year, file with the Probate Judge in each county where it owns property, a com¬ plete list of its stockholders, showing the amount of stock held by each of them, and which of them are white and which are colored. When any prop¬ erty belonging to a corporation is situated in a white school district where a special assessment is to be made as herein provided, such assessment shall be levied upon such proportion of the value of such property as the amount of capital stock owned by white persons bears to the whole amount of capital stock. When such property is situated in a colored school district where such assessment is to be made, it shall be levied upon such proportion of the value thereof as the capital stock owned by colored persons bears to the whole capital stock. If such corporation fails to file such list of its stock- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 215 holders, then the special assessments for the purposes herein provided may be made upon the whole value of such property for either or both white and colored districts. 6. The General Assembly shall provide for the levying and collection of an annual poll tax, not to exceed one dollar and fifty cents on each poll, which shall be applied to the support of the public schools in the school district in which it is levied and collected. 7. The principal of all funds arising from the sale or other disposition of lands or other property, which has been or may hereafter be granted? or entrusted to this State, or given by the United States for educational purposes, shall be preserved inviolate and undiminished; and the income therefrom shall be faithfully applied to the specific objects of the original grants or appropriations. 8. All lands or other property given by individuals, or appropriated by the State for educational purposes, and all estates of deceased persons who die withoue a will or heir, shall be faithfully applied to the maintenance of the public schools. 9. The income arising from the sixteenth section trust fund and the surplus revenue fund until it is called for by the United States Government, with such other moneys, to be not less than three hundred thousand dollars per annum, as the General Assembly may provide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase, from time to time, the school fund, as the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State will admit. 10. Not more than four per centum of all moneys raised, or which may hereafter be appropriated for the support of the public schools, shall be used or expended otherwise than for the payment of teachers employed in such schools; provided the General Assembly may, by a vote of two-thirds of each house, suspend the operation of this section. 11. The supervision of the public schools shall be vested in a State Superintendent and County Superintendent of Education, whose powers, duties, terms of office and compensation shall be fixed by law; and they shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State in such manner and at such times as shall be provided by law. No person shall be eligible to the office of State or County Superintendent of Education unless he possess the qualifications required by law of teachers holding first grade certifi¬ cates in this State. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No, 131, by Mr. Murphree: Relates to duelling, concealed pistols and other deadly weap¬ ons. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That 216 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Section 47 Article IV of the Constitution of Alabama, be and js hereby amended so as to read as follows : The General Assembly shall pass such penal laws as they may deem expedient to suppress the evil practice of duelling and carrying* pistols and other deadly weapons concealed. Ordinance No. 132, by Mr. Murphree; On grantingf free passes by railroad companies. people of Alabama sembled, That, in convention as- Section 23, Article XIV, of the Constitution of Alabama, be amended so as to read as follows: No railroad or other transportation company shall grant free passes, or sell tickets or passes at a discount other than as sold to the public generally, to any member of the General Assembly, or to any person holding office under this State or the United States. And any railroad official violating this section shall be deemed guilty of a rnisdemeanor and on conviction shall be fined $500 and confined in jail twenty days, and any of the officials named above who shall receive or use a free pass during his term of office shall • conviction, shall be fined not exceed¬ ing $500 and not less than |1 and imprisoned in countv iail not less than twenty days. Referred to the Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 133, by Mr. Murphree: An ordinance for the regulation of railroad freights and pas senger tariffs. people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled That there shall be added to Article XIV of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama, the following sections; Sec. 26. The power and authority of regulating railroad freight and passenger tariffs, and the location and building of pas¬ senger and freight depots, preventing unjust discriminations and requiring reasonable and just rates of freight and passenger tar- iirs, are hereby conferred upon the General Assembly, whose'^uty It shall be to pass laws, from time to time, to regulate freight and passenger tariffs, to prohibit unjust discriminations on the various railroads of this State, and prohibit said roads from charg'ing* other than just and reasonable rates, and enforce the same by adequate penalties. Sec 27. The General Assembly shall not remit the forfeiture of the charter of any corporation now existing, nor alter or amend the same, nor pass any other general or special law for the benefit of said corporation except upon the condition that such corporation CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 217 shall thereafter hold its charter subject to the provisions of this constitution; and every amendment of any character of any cor¬ poration in this State, or any special law for its benefit, accepted thereby, shall operate as a novation of said charter, and shall bring the same under the provisions of this constitution; Provided, that this section shall not extend to any amendment for the purpose of allowing any existing road to take stock in or aid in the build¬ ing of any branch road. Sec. 28. The General Assembly of this State shall have no power to authorize any corporation to buy shares, or stock, in any corporation in this State, or elsewhere, or to make any contract, or agreement whatever, with any such corporation, which may have the effect, or be intended to have the effect, to defeat or les¬ sen competition in their respective^ businesses, or to encourage monopoly; and all such contracts and agreements shall be illegal and void. Sec. 29. No railroad company shall give or pay, any rebate, or bonus in the nature thereof, directly or indirectly, or do any act to mislead or deceive the public as to the real rates charged or received for freights or passage; and any such payments shall be illegal and void, and these prohibitions shall be enforced by suit¬ able penalties. Sec. 30. The General Assembly shall enforce the provisions of this article by appropriate legislation. Sec. 31. Be it further ordained. That a Railroad Commission is hereby created, consisting of three male citizens of the State over the age of 25 years, whose duty it shall be to carry out the provisions of the Constitution, and laws relative to railroads and canals in this State. The term of office of said Commission shall be the same as that of the Governor and other State officers, un¬ less otherwise fixed by the General Assembly. The salary of the Commissioners shall be fixed by law. Sec. 32. The said Commissioners shall take an oath of of¬ fice, to be framed by the Governor, and shall not jointly or sever¬ ally, or in any way, be holders or owners of any railroad stock or bonds, or be the agent or employe of any railroad company or have any interest in any way in any railroad, during their term of office, and in case any Commissioner becomes disqualified in any way, he shall at once remove the disqualifications or resign, and on failure to do so, must be suspended by the Governor, who shall fill said vacancy by appointment, as well as all other va¬ cancies that may occur from time to time, in said board. Referred to the Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 134, by same: 218 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that, Section 5, Article V, of the Constitution of Alabama be and is hereby amended so as to read as follows: The Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, State Au¬ ditor, Attorney General and three Railroad Commissioners, shall be elected at the first general election after the ratification of this Constitution and shall hold their respective offices for the term of four years from the time of their installation and until their suc¬ cessors shall be elected and qualified, and they shall not succeed themselves or be elig’ible to any other State office for four years after the expiration of the term for which they were elected; pro¬ vided, however, that the term of office of the Railroad Commis¬ sioners may be changed by an act of the General Assembly. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 135, by Mr. NeSmith: An ordinance to amend Article IV of the Constitution by adding thereto, the following: Section The courts shall not enforce a legislative act un¬ less there be record evidence, from the journals of the two Houses, that ever material requirement of the Constitution has been com¬ plied with; and in the absence of such record evidence the pre¬ sumption of proper discharge by the legislature of its official duty shall not be indulged. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 136, by Mr. Oates: An Ordinance to amend Article II of the Constitution of the State by adding thereto another section as follows, to wit: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Sec. 3. No county site shall be changed or removed except by a two-thirds vote of the qualified electors of the County, vot¬ ing at an election held for that purpose. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 137, by Mr. Oates: An ordinance to amend Article IV, Sections 1 and 2 of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That Section 1 of Article IV of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows, to wit: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 219 1. The legislative power of the State shall be “Be it enacted by the legislature of Alabama” which shall not be repeated, but the act shall be divided into Sections for convenience, according to substance and designated merely by figures. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 138, by Mr, Oates: An ordinance to preserve the purity of the ballot and to pre¬ vent and punish frauds in elections. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : Section 1. Any person who shall give, or promise or offer to give, to any elector, any money, reward or any other valuable con¬ sideration for his vote at any election, or for withholding the same, or who shall give or promise to give such consideration to any person or party for such elector’s vote, or for withholding thereof, and any elector who shall receive, for himself or for another, any money, reward or any other valuable consideration for his vote, at an election, or for withholding the same shall thereby forfeit the right to vote at any election during the next ten years, and any elector whose right to vote shall be challenged for such case be¬ fore the election officers shall be required to swear or affirm that the matter of the challenge is untrue before his vote shall Tje re¬ ceived; and anyone who swears falsely in regard thereto shall be guilty of perjury. Sec. 2. Any person who shall, while a candidate for office, be guilty of bribery, fraud or willful violation of any election law, shall be forever disqualified from holding an office of trust or profit in this State; and any person convicted of willful violation of the election laws, shall, in addition to any penalties provided by law, be deprived of the right of suffrage absolutely for a term of ten years. And the evidence given by anyone used as a witness against any one for violating any of the provisions of this or the preceding section shall not be used against such witness and any person found guilty of a wilful violation of the provisions of this or the preceding section shall be deemed guilty of felony. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. Ordinance No. 139, by Mr. Oates: An Ordinance: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That at the expiration of the term of office of the five chancellors now in office, there shall no longer be a separate Chan¬ cery Court in this State, and thereupon it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide by law for the judges of the Circuit Courts to have and exercise equity jurisdiction in all cases as 220 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS fully and completely as the said chancellors are now empowered to do; Provided, that the same g^eneral forms of pleading’s in equity cases as are now provided for by law shall prevail and an equity docket of such causes be kept in said law courts and that the transfer to said law courts of all unfinished business be provided for by law. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 140, by Mr. Oates; An ordinance to authorize the governor to appoint, with the advice and consent of the Senate, the Attorney-General. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the Governor, at the beginning of his term of of¬ fice, shall, with the advice and consent of the Senate, appoint an Attorney General for the State, whose term of office shall be for the same length of time as that of the Governor, and who may be removed for cause at the instance of the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate; and in the event of the resig¬ nation, death or removal of the Attorney-General, the Governor shall, in like manner, appoint his successor for the unexpired term of such office. Referred to the Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 141, by Mr. Oates (Montgomery): An ordinance proposing certain prohibitions and restrictions upon the powers of the Legislature. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled.—Prohibitions. Section 1. The Legislature shall not enact any law for one or more counties, not applicable to all of the counties in the State, increasing the uniform charge for the registration of deeds, or regulating cost and charges and fees of officers. Sec. 2. The Legislature shall not authorize payment to any person of the salary of a deceased officer beyond the date of his death. Sec. 3. The Legislature shall not retire any officer on pay, or part pay, or make any grant to such retiring officer. Sec. 4. The Legislature shall never create by law any distinc¬ tion between the rights of men and women to acquire, own, enjoy and dispose of property of all kinds, or their power to contract in reference thereto. Married women are hereby fully emanci¬ pated from all disabilities on account of coverture. But they shall not prevent the Legislature from regulating contracts between husband and wife, or preventing her from becoming his surety; nor shall the Legislature be prevented from regulating the sale CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 221 of homesteads, thou.^h the same shall not be mortfifajs^ed. Land belonging to, or under the control of the State shall never be do¬ nated directly, or indirectly, to private corporations or individuals or to railroad companies. Nor shall such land be sold to corpora¬ tions or associations for a less price than that for which it is sub¬ ject for sale to individuals. This, however, shall not prevent the Legislature from granting right-of-way, not exceeding one hun¬ dred feet in width, as a mere easement, to railroads to cross State land, and the Legislature shall never dispose of land covered by said right-of-way so long as such easement exists. Sec. 5. The Legislature shall never grant extra compensa¬ tion, fee, or allowance, to any public officer, agent, servant or con¬ tractor, after service rendered, or contract made; nor authorize payment, or part payment, of any claim under any contract, not authorized by law; but appropriations may be made for expendi¬ tures in repelling invasions, preventing or suppressing insurrec¬ tions. The Legislature shall have no power to devise any remedy which may have become barred by lapse of time, or by any statute of limitation of his State. Sec. 6. No lottery shall ever be allowed, or be advertised, by newspapers or otherwise, or its tickets be sold in this State; and the Legislature shall provide by law for the enforcement of this provision; nor shall any lottery heretofore authorized be per¬ mitted to be drawn or its ticket sold. The Legislature shall not elect any other than its own officers, and United States Senators; but this section shall not prohibit the Legislature fi;om appointing Presidential Electors. Sec. 7. No obligation or liability of any person, association, or corporation held or owned by this State, or levee board, or any county, city, or town thereof, shall ever be remitted, released or postponed, or in any way diminished by the Legislature, nor shall any liability or obligation be extinguished except by payment thereof into the proper treasury; nor shall such liability, or obli¬ gation be exchanged or transferred except upon payment of its face value; but this shall not be construed to prevent the Legisla¬ ture from providing by general law for the compromise of doubt¬ ful claims. Referred to the Legislative Department Committee. Ordinance No. 142, by Mr. Oates: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the following restrictions and limitations upon the powers of legislation, to wit: Section 1. No special or local law shall be enacted for the benefit of individuals or corporations, in cases which are, or can be provided by a general law, or where the relief sought can be given by any court of this State; nor shall the operation of any 222 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS general law be suspended by the legislature for the benefit of any individual or private corporation or association, and in all cases where a general law can be made applicable, and would be advan¬ tageous, no special law shall be enacted. Sec. 2. The legislature shall pass general laws, under which local and private interests shall be provided for and protected, and under which cities and towns may be chartered and their charters amended, and under which corporations may be created, organized, and their acts of incorporation altered; and all such laws shall be subject to repeal or amendment. Sec. 3. There shall be appointed in each house of the legisla¬ ture a standing Committee on Local and Private Legislation; the House Committee to consist of seven representatives, and the Sen¬ ate Committee of five Senators. No local or private bill shall be passed by either house until it shall have been referred to said committee thereof, and shall have been reported back with recom¬ mendation in writing that it do pass, stating affirmatively the reasons therefor, and why the end to be accomplished should not be reached by a general law, or by proceeding in court, or if the recommendation of the committee be that the bill do not pass, then it shall not pass the House to which it is so reported unless it be voted for by a majority of all the members elected thereto. If a bill is passed in conformity to the requirements hereof, other than such as are prohibited in the next section, the courts shall not, because of its local, special or private nature refuse to en¬ force it. Sec. 4. The legislature shall not pass local, private or special laws in any of the following enumerated cases, but such matters shall be provided for only by general laws, viz: (a) Granting divorces. (b) Changing the names of persons, places or corporations. (c) Providing for changes of venue in civil and criminal cases. (d) Regulating the rate of interest on money. (e) Concerning the settlement or administration of any es¬ tate, or the sale or mortgage of any property, of any infant, or of a person of unsound mind, or of any deceased person. (f) The removal of the disability of infancy. (g) Granting to any person, corporation, or association, the right to have any ferry, bridge, road or fish-trap. (h) Exemption of property from taxation, or from levy or sale. (i) Providing for the adoption or legitimation of children. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 223 (j) Changing the law of descent and distribution. (k) Exempting any person from jury, road, or other civil duty (and no person shall be exempted therefrom by force of any local or private law.) (l) Laying out, opening, altering and working roads and highways. (m) Vacating any road or highway, town plat, street, alley or public grounds. (n) Selecting, drawing, summoning or empannelling grand or petit juries. (o) Creating, increasing, or decreasing the fees, salary or emoluments of any public officer. (p) Providing for the management or support of any private or common school, incorporating the same, or granting such school any privileges. (q) Relating to stock laws, water courses and fences. (r) Conferring the power to exercise the right of eminent do¬ main or granting to any person, corporation or association the right to lay down railroad tracks, or street car tracks, in any other manner than that prescribed by general law. (s) Regulating the practice in courts of justices. (t) Providing for the creation of districts for the election of justices of the peace and constables. (u) Granting any lands under control of the State to any per¬ son or corporation. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 143, by Mr. O’Neal: Prohibiting the grant by any county, city, town or other mu¬ nicipality of any franchise or privilege; or the making of any con¬ tract in reference thereto, for a term exceeding twepty years, and requiring such grants to be made at public auction to the highest bidder. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in con¬ vention assembled. That the following provisions shall constitute Section-of Article XIV of the Constitution of this State: No county, city, town or other municipality shall be author¬ ized or permitted to grant any franchise or privilege, or make any contract in reference thereto, for a term exceeding twenty years. Before granting such franchise or privilege for a term of years, such county, city, town or other municipality shall first, after due advertisement, receive bids therefor publicly, and award the same 224 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS to the highest bidder: but it shall have the right to reject any or all bids. This section shall not apply to a trunk railway. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporation. Ordinance 144, by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) : To amend Section 5 of Article XI of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in con¬ vention assembled. That Section 5 of Article XI of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Article XI—Section 5. No county in the State shall be au¬ thorized to levy a larger rate of taxation, in any one year, on the value of the taxable property therein than one-half of one per centum; provided, that to pay debts existing on the 6th day of December, 1875, an additional rate of one-fourth of one per centum may be levied and collected, which shall be exclusively appropri¬ ated to the payment of such debt or the interest thereon; provided, further, that to pay any debt or liability now existing against any county incurred for the erection of the necessary public buildings or other ordinary county purposes, or that may hereafter be cre¬ ated for the erection of the necessary public buildings or bridges or {he establishment or improvement of public roads, any county may levy and collect such special taxes as may have been or may hereafter be authorized by law, which taxes so levied and collected shall be applied exclusively to the purposes for which the same shall have been levied and collected; provided, further, that no special tax for the establishment or improvement of public roads shall exceed the rate of one-tenth of one percentum on the value of the taxable property therein in any one year or shall be levied and collected until authorized by a majority of the legally qualified voters of the county at an election held for such purpose. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 145, by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) : To amend Section 5 of Article XI of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5 of Article XI of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: After the ratification of this Constitution, no new debt shall be created against or incurred by this State or its authority, ex¬ cept to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, and then only by concurrence of two-thirds of the members of each house of the General Assembly, and the vote shall be taken by yeas and nays and entered on the journal; and any act creating or incurring any new debt again.st this State, except as herein provided for, shall CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 225 be absolutely void; provided, the Governor may be authorized to ne^fotiate temporary loans, never to exceed one hundred thousand dollars, to meet deficiencies in the treasury and until the same is paid, no new loan shall be ne/ 3 ;otiated; provided, further, that this section shall not be so construed as to prevent the issuance of re¬ newal bonds to refund the existing; State indebtedness, but such bonds shall not bear a rate of interest exceeding; four per cent per annum, payable semi-annually. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Resolution No. 17, by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) : To adopt the present Constitution of the State of Alabama by this Convention, subject to such revision and amendments in any article, section, or part thereof, as this convention may here¬ after determine. That whereas. The act of the General Assembly of Alabama which provided for the holding; of this convention declares that this convention shall continue in session until it shall by careful revisions and amendments of the present constitution, frame and adopt a revised Constitution for this State. Therefore, be it resolved. That the present Constitution of the State of Alabama be and the same is hereby adopted by this con¬ vention as the Constitution of the State of Alabama, subject only to be revised, amended or altered in any article, section, clause or part thereof. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No, 146, by Mr. O’Neill; Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled that Article XIII of the Constitution on Education be amended by striking; out the whole section 11 and inserting; in lieu thereof the following: Section 11. No County or city in Alabama will be granted special privileges in collection of State, liquor or other licenses to be used by said County or city for school purposes without first submitting it to the qualified voters of Alabama for ratification or rejection. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. BROWNE—I have a resolution I desire to offer. I ask unanimous consent that the resolution may be read and I move to suspend the rules and pass the resolution. Resolution No. 72 was read as follows: Be it resolved that upon the request of the Chairman of any Committee having no clerk, the Chairman of any Committee hav- 226 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS in^ a clerk may direct the clerk of his Committee to serve such first named Committee, when not eng'ag^ed with the Committee to which he has been assigned. A vote being taken the rules were suspended, and a further vote being taken the resolution was adopted. Mr. Palmer yielded his place to Mr. Williams (Marengo.) Ordinance No. 147, by Mr. Williams (Marengo): An ordinance to regulate the power of corporations to engage in business. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that no municipal, public or private corporation or other corporation; that no County or other quasi corporation shall en¬ gage in any business unless and except, any and all persons, firms, partnerships, limited partnerships and corporations shall have the right to engage in the same business under the same terms, con- ditions and limitations, and entitled to the same immunities and privileges. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 148, by Mr. Williams (Marengo): To forbid the State of Alabama from engaging in certain businesses. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled. That the State of Alabama shall not engage in any business unless any or all persons, firms, partnerships, limited partnerships, and all corporations are also permitted to en¬ gage in the same business under the same terms, conditions and limitations and entitled to the same immunities and privileges. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 149, by Mr. Williams (Marengo) : To provide for jury trials in certain cases. 1. Be it ordained by the Convention, that in civil causes a trial by jury shall be had in such cases, only, as a jury is demanded at such time as may be fixed by the legislature. 2. Be it further ordained. That in criminal and quasi criminal cases the trial by jury shall remain inviolate. 3. Be it further ordained. That the entire jury must agree to any verdict. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Resolution No. 73, by Mr. Williams (Marengo) : CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 227 Be it resolved that when this Convention adjourn on Friday, such adjournment shall be to Monday. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. OATES—I would like to inquire of the delegfate from Marengo what is the necessity for this. I, bein^ here at home, am not inconvenienced either by working that day or having* no session; but if there be necessity to accommodate other gentlemen, I will willingly vote for it, but will not unless there is some good reason. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—The resolution was introduced at the request of several delegates who wanted to go home to¬ morrow. If the wording of the resolution makes it appear that it means every Friday, I did not intend it. I simply intended it for tomorrow and my understanding was that the resolution would go to the Committee on Rules and not be put on its passage now, but the Committee on Rules can report on it tomorrow. The president— if there is no objection the Chair will refer the resolution to the Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 150, by Mr. Parker (Cullman) : An ordinance to amend Article II. of the Constitution by add¬ ing Section 3 thereto. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Article II. of the Constitution be, and the same is hereby amended, by adding the following section thereto: Sec. 3. No county site shall be changed or removed, except by a two-thirds vote of the qualified voters of the county, voting at an election held for that purpose. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Resolution No. 74 by Mr. Parker (Cullman): To provide for a Clerk of the Committee on Local Legislation. Resolved, That the Chairman of the Committee on Local Legislation be authorized to employ a Clerk for said Committee, said Clerk to receive the same fees as clerks of other committees of this Convention. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 151, by Mr. Pearce (Marion): An ordinance to amend Section 4 of Article XL of the present Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 4 of Article XL of the present Constitution be amended as follows, by striking out the words '^three-fourths 228 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of 1 per centum'' and in lieu thereof insert the words ''five-eighths of 1 per centum." Referred to Committee on Taxation. MR. PETTUS—In offering^ this ordinance, I would state that my construction of the Federal Constitution is that any State has a right to discriminate against the negro as a race provided the State is willing to incur the penalty provided in the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments. Ordinance No. 152, by Mr, Pettus: To disfranchise negroes and persons of African descent in Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no negro, black man, or person of African descent shall be allowed to vote in any Federal, State, county or municipal election in the State of Alabama. Referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Election. Resolution No. 75, by Mr. Parker (Elmore) : Whereas, The General Assembly passed an act, approved March 4th, 1901, entitled "An Act to provide for the annexation of West Florida to the State of Alabama," with the consent of the State of Florida and the Congress of the United States, and, Whereas, The Governor of Alabama has, in pursuance of said act, appointed as commissioners on the part of Alabama, Hons. Wm. L. Martin, Richard C. Jones and Samuel Blackwell, to con¬ fer with a like commission on the part of the State of Florida, which commission is empowered to do and perform all acts neces¬ sary and requisite to perfect an agreement for the cession of said territory to the State of Alabama, to be ratified and confirmed by the Legislature of Alabama, and approved by the Governor, Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That this Convention hereby ratify and endorse the purposes of said act, and the appointment of said commission. Resolved further. That we approve of the annexation of the territory described in said act, to the State of Alabama in the man¬ ner set forth therein. Resolved further, That we commend the distinguished com¬ mission on the part of Alabama to a painstaking and patriotic ef¬ fort in consummating liberal terms for the cession of said territory and recommend such other action by the Legislature of Alabama, and the Congress of the United States as may be necessary. Referred to the Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 153, by Mr. Pillans: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 229 To amend Article VI of the Constitution of Alabama (relat¬ ing to the Judicial establishment). Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, That Section 1 of Article VI of the Constitu¬ tion be and is amended so as to read as follows: The judicial power of the State shall be vested in the Senate sitting as a court of impeachment, a Supreme Court, Circuit Courts, Courts of Probate and such inferior courts as the General Assembly may from time to time establish. Sec. 2. Be it further ordained, That the proviso contained in Section 6 of said Article VI be and is repealed and stricken out, and that Sections 7, 8, 21 and 26 thereof be repealed. Sec. 3. Be it further ordained, That all other parts of said Article VI which provide for or relate to the establishment of chancery courts or registers in chancery be and the same are stricken out and repealed. Sec. 4. Be it further ordained, That Section 4 of said Article VI be amended so as to read as follows: The State shall be di¬ vided by the General Assembly into convenient circuits, and no circuit shall contain more than five counties, and for each circuit there shall be chosen a judge, who shall be learned in the law, and who shall for one year next preceeding his election and during his continuance in office reside in such circuit. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 154 by Mr. Pillans: To amend Article V, Section 12 of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. (Relating to pardons.) Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 12 of Article V be amended so as to read as follows: The Governor shall have power to remit fines and forfeitures, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law, and after convictions to grant reprieves, commutations or sen¬ tences and pardons, but no pardon shall be granted or sentence commuted except upon the recommendation in writing of the sec¬ retary of State, Attorney General, and State Treasurer, or any two of them, after full hearing in open session upon due public notice. (Adopted from Pennsylvania Constitution.) Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Resolution No. 76, by Mr. Proctor: 230 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolved, That the reading- each day of the journal of this convention be dispensed with unless the same is demanded by the convention. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 77, by Mr. Proctor: Resolved, That the Committee on the Journal shall be en¬ titled to a clerk, to be appointed by the chairman who shall re¬ ceive the same per diem as clerks of the other committee. Resolved further. That said clerk shall, when not engaged with said committee, serve any other committee that may need a clerk, or serve the secretary of this convention when so required by him. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 155, by Mr. Reese. An ordinance to provide for the election of officers discharg¬ ing the duties of Railroad Commissioners and Convict Inspectors. Article-. Section —. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, that all officers charged with the duties now discharged by the Railroad Commissioners and Convict Inspectors, by whatever named called, shall hereafter be elected by the peo¬ ple in the same manner as ma}^ be provided by law, for the election of Governor, provided that the General Assembly shall have power to change the name and number and duties of said officers. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 156, by Mr. Reese. An ordinance to be embodied in Article V of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled that Article V (Executive Department) be amended by adding the following section. Section —. It shall be the duty of the State Treasurer within ten days after the first day of January and July of each year, to publish a statement under oath, in some newspaper published at the seat of government, showing the condition of the treasury of said day, the balance on hand and in what funds, together with a certificate of the Governor that he has actually verified the count of the funds in the treasury and found the balance stated by the Treasurer actually in the vaults of the treasury or as the truth may be. And it shall be the duty of the Governor at such other times as he may deem proper, to go to the Treasury without giving any notice or warning to the Treasurer or any other person, and verify the cash balance as shown by the books and to publish the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 231 fact that he has clone so, and whether the amount called for* by the books be actually in the Treasury and stating whether the Treasurer or any other person had any notice whatever that such verification would be made. Referred to Committee on Executive Department, Resolution No. 78, by same: Resolved. That the Committee on Judiciary Department be and are hereby instructed to investigate and report to this Con¬ vention what constitutional provisions are necessary or expedient for the reform in judicial administration by the Justice of the Peace system and whether the same should be abolished or modi¬ fied. Referred to the Judiciary Committee. Resolution No. 79, by same: Resolved, That the Committee on Judicial Department are hereby instructed to embody in its report a provision fixing the salaries of Justices of the Supreme Court at such sum, (not less than $5,(XX) per annum) as will enable the State to obtain its best leg^al talent for this important tribunal. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Resolution No. 80, by same: Resolved. That Rule 27 be and is hereby amended as follows, by adding at the end thereof the following words: ‘'Provided, That any vote taken on the last day of the session of this convention may be reconsidered on the same day. Referred to Committee on Rules. Mr. Reynolds (Chilton), yielded his turn to Mr. Watts. Ordinance No. 157, by Mr. Watts: Be it ordained that Sections 1 and 2, Article VI be amended as follows: Section 1. The judicial power of the State shall be vested in the Senate, sitting as a court of impeachment, an appellate equity court, a supreme court, circuit courts, chancery courts, courts of probate and inferior courts of law and equity, to consist of not more than five members as the General Assembly may from time to time establish, and such persons as may be by law invested with the powers of a judicial nature; provided, that no new inferior court for the State or any sub-division thereof shall be established except by a vote of two-thirds of the members elected to each House a vote to be taken by yeas and nays and spread upon the journals and in all counties where the population, according to 232 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the census of 1900 is less than thirty-five thousand, the Courts now in existence other than circuit, chancery, probate, municipal and justice courts shall have no existence after the terms of the in¬ cumbents respectively, expire. Sec. 2. The Supreme Court shall consist of three members. At the general election in 1904, the three judges thereof shall be elected, one for a term of four years, one for a term of eight years, and one for a term of twelve years, and every four years after 1904, one of said judges shall be elected, whose term of office shall be twelve years. Said court, except in cases otherwise provided by this Constitution, shall have appellate jurisdiction only from all inferior courts exercising civil (not equity) or criminal jurisdic¬ tion, which appellate jurisdiction shall be co-extensive with the State under such restrictions and regulations not repugnant to this Constitution as may be from time to time prescribed by law, pro¬ vided that no appeal shall lie to said Supreme Court from any inferior court, except the appellate court, except from a final judg¬ ment disposing of the case. Said Supreme Court shall have juris¬ diction of all appeals from the appellate equity court where the construction of any provision of this Constitution or any statute is involved. The following shall be Section 3 of Article VI: Sec. 3. The appellate equity court shall consist of three mem¬ bers. At the general election held in 1904 the three judges thereof shall be elected, one for four years, one for eight years, and one for twelve years, and every four years after 1904, one of said judges shall be elected whose term of office shall be twelve years. Said court, except as otherwise provided in this Constitution, shall have appellate jurisdiction only from all inferior courts having equity jurisdiction, which appellate jurisdiction shall be co-extensive with the State, under such restrictions and regulations, not repugnant to this Constitution as may from time to time be prescribed by law, provided that except in cases where an injunction or other remedial writ has been granted or refused, and in cases where a receiver has been appointed or refused, no appeal shall lie to said appellate court except from the decree ending the case. Sec. 4. The Supreme Court and appellate equity court shall be held at the seat of government, but if that shall have become dangerous from any cause, said courts may each adjourn to a different place. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 158, by Mr. Watts: To amend Sections 12, 13, 15, 25 and 26 of Article V. Be it ordained. That Section 12, Article V. shall be amended so as to read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 233 ''Sec. 12. The Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney General are hereby constituted a board, and said board or ma¬ jority thereof, when in session, shall have power, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law, and after conviction to ^rant reprieves, commutations of sentence and pardons, except¬ ing” cases of treason, and to remit fines and forfeitures, but par¬ dons and cases of murder, arson, burglary, rape, assault with in¬ tent to commit rape, perjury, forgery, bribery, larceny and im¬ peachment shall not relieve from civil and political disabilities, unless specifically expressed in the pardon afterwards granted. Said board may also grant paroles under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. Upon conviction of treason said board may suspend the execution of the sentence and report the same to the General Assembly at its next regular session, when the General Assembly shall either pardon, commute sentence, direct its execution, or grant further reprieve. Said board shall com¬ municate to the General Assembly at every regular session each case of reprieve, commutation of sentence, and pardon granted, and fine and forfeiture remitted with its reasons therefor, stating the name and crime of the convict, the sentence, its date and the date and nature of reprieve, commutation or sentence.” Add to Section 13, Article V., at the end thereof the following: Every bill passed within the past two days before the final adjournment, if approved by the Governor within five days after final adjournment, shall be a law.” Section 15, Article V. shall be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : "Sec. 15. If any person elected Governor shall die or resign before he is inaugurated, or for any reason fails to qualify as Gov¬ ernor, the person elected by the Senate as its President after said person so failing or refusing to qualify as Governor was elected, and holding the office of President of the Senate at the time fixed for the inauguration of the Governor shall exercise all the powers and authority of Governor, and be entitled to the honors and emoluments of Governor; in case of the death or resignation air aforesaid of the person elected Governor, until some one, who has been elected Governor as provided by law, shall become entitled to the office of Governor, and in case of the failure or refusal for any reason of the person elected Governor to qualify; and in case of the impeachment of the Governor, his removal from office, death, resignation, absence from the State or other disability or inability, after inauguration, the President of the Senate shall ex¬ ercise all the power and authority appertaining to the office of Governor and be entitled to the honors and emoluments thereof, until, in the case of removal from office, death, or resignation of the Governor, some one who has been elected Governor, as pro¬ vided by law, shall become entitled to the office of Governor, and, in case of the impeachment, absence from the State, or other dis- 234 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ability or inability of the Governor until such time as the Governor returns, shall be acquitted, or his disability or inability is removed; and if, during- any such vacancy in the office of Governor, the President of the Senate, as aforesaid, shall be impeached, re¬ moved from office, refuse to qualify, die, resign, be absent from the State or be under other disability or inability, the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall in like manner administer the government. If the Governor shall be absent from the State for over twenty days, the Secretary of State shall notify the President of the Senate, who shall enter upon and discharge the duties of Governor until the return of the Governor, and if the Ciovernor and President of the Senate shall both 1)e absent from the State for' over twenty days, the Secretary of State shall notify the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who shall enter upon and dis¬ charge the duties of the Governor or President of the Senate/' Section 25, Article V. shall be amended by striking out the words, ''After the expiration of the term of those now in office/" Section 26, Article V. shall be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : “Sec. 26. In 1904, and every four years thereafter, a sheriff shall be elected in each county by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, unless sooner removed and shall be ineligible to any county office for one year after ceasing to be sheriff. Vacancies in the office of sheriff shall be filled as in other cases and the persons appointed shall fill out the unexpired term."" Referred to Committee on Executixe Department. MR. FERGUSON—I desire to correct an error in the steno¬ graphic report of the proceedings of yesterday. In reporting a resolution that I had the honor to offer the stenographic report reads “That inability to read and write shall not be a test of good citizenship,"" whereas the resolution read and still reads “is not a test of bad citizenship."" THIi^ PRESIDENT—The resolution is correct on the journrd. Ordinance No. 159, by Mr. Watts: To amend Sections 13, 15, 17, 27, 31, 39, 52 and 56, Article IV. Be it ordained that Section 13, Article IV, shall read as fol¬ lows: “Section 13. Each house shall keep a journal showing all its proceedings, including the vote upon every measure acted U])on, said vote to be shown by the names of those voting, and how each voted when a yea and nay vote is required, and including a statement whether or not the reciuired notice had been given in the case of local bills passed. Each house shall cause its journal to be published immediately after the adjournment of said house, except such |>arts of .said journal as in the judgment of said house CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 235 may require secrecy, and the yeas and nays of members of either house on any question shall, at the desire of one-tenth of the members present, be entered on the journal. Any member of either house shall have liberty to dissent from or protest ag^ainst any act or resolution which he may think injurious to the pul)lic or an individual, and have his reasons entered on the journal.” That Section IS, Article 1\\ shall read as follows: “Section 15. The doors of each house shall be open, except on such occa¬ sions as, in the opinion of the house, may require secrecy, but no one except, members, officers, and employes of the Senate and House of Representatives, State officers, and messengfers from the Governor shall be permitted on the floor of either house while in session, except by a majority vote of said house adopted separate¬ ly for each occasion when any other person shall be so permitted, and lobbying- on the floor of either house must l)e bv law prohibit¬ ed.” Section 17, Article IV, shall be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : “Section 17. No Senator or Representative shall, during the term for which he shall have been elected, be appointed to any civil or military office of profit under this State or sub-division thereof, which offices shall have been created, or the emoluments of which shall have been increased, during such term, except such offices as may be filled by election by the people.” Section 27, Article IV shall be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : “Section 27. The presiding officer of each house, or in case of his absence or inamility, the person actually presiding, shall, in the presence of the house over which he presides, sign all bills and joint resolutions passed by the General Assembly, after the titles have been publicly read immediately before signing and the fact of signing shall be entered on the journal. Section 31, Article IV, shall be amended so as to read as follows: “Section 31. All bills for raising or regulating revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives, but the Senate may pro¬ pose amendments as in other bills and no appropriation or revenue bill shall be passed during the last five days of the session.” Section 39, Article IV, shall be so amended so as to read as follows: “Section 39. No act of the General Assembly changing the seat of government of the State shall become a law until the same shall have been submitted to the qualified electors of the State at a general election and approved by a majority of the qualified voters of the State.” 236 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Section 52, Article IV, shall be amended by strikingf out the last clause thereof, commencing “Nor such property, real or per¬ sonal.” Section 56, Article IV, shall be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : “Section 56. There can be no law impairing the obligation of contracts by destroying or impairing the remedy of their en¬ forcement or otherwise, and the General Assembly shall have no power to revise any right or remedy which may have become barred by lapse of time or by any statute of this State.” Section —. No motion to reconsider shall be disposed of adversely on the day the original vote was taken, except on the last day of the session. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 160, by Mr. Robinson: An ordinance to amend Section 32 Article IV, of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama: Be it ordained, that Section 32, Article IV of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama be amended by adding at the end of said Section, the following words: “And no special appropriation exceeding $500 shall be made, except by a vote of two-thirds of each House. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 161, by same: An Ordinance to amend Section 6, Article XIII of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama. Be it ordained that Section 6, Article XIII of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: 6. AH money raised, or which may hereafter be appropriated, for support of the public schools, shall be used and expended for the payment of teachers employed in such schools, except for the compensation of the school officers in the County. And no inci¬ dental or other fee shall be required of any child before entrance into such public schools in excess of 50 cents for each child in any one scholastic year. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I have a resolution. Task unani¬ mous consent to its reading and I move that the rules be sus¬ pended and that it be put on its passage immediately. The resolution was read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 237 Resolved, that it is the sense of this Convention, that any further reference by “resolution” to the ante-election pledgees of the Democratic platform,” is not only unnecessary but is bad taste. The people of Alabama expect as a matter of course, that the Democratic party will now, as heretofore, keep its promises to them. A vote beingf taken the rules were suspended. MR. VAUGHAN—^All resolutions similar to that are out on reference to committees and can they be considered now? THE PRESIDENT—They can be offered as amendments to this. MR. REESE—I move that the resolution be referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. deGRAFFENREID — The gentleman is out of order. The rules are suspended and the resolution is before the House for adoption or objection. MR. REESE—Under the rules of the House, a motion to com¬ mit can be made at any time. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is of the opinion that not¬ withstanding the rules have been suspended and the resolution is before the House for consideration, nevertheless a motion to refer to a proper Committee would be in order. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)-r-I move to lay the motion to refer on the table. A vote being taken the motion to refer was tabled. MR. REESE—I move that the consideration of this matter be indefinitely postponed. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—And I move to lay that motion on the table. MR. REESE—And on that I demand the ayes and noes. THE PRESIDENT—Is the call for the ayes and noes sus¬ tained. No second for the motion being forthcoming the President declared the call not sustained and a vote being taken on the mo¬ tion to table the motion to indefinitely postpone the same was carried. THE PRESIDENT—^The question is on the adoption of the resolution of the gentleman from Sumter. MR. O’NEAL—I move to amend the last clause by striking out the word “do” and inserting the word “will.” 238 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I accept the amendment. MR. REESE—I object to the amendment and make the point of order that the question is before the House, is the property of the House, and cannot be amended without the consent of the House. THE PRESIDENT—^n the opinion of the Chair, the point of order is not well taken. MR. VAUGHAN—I would like to hear the resolution read as amended. This was done. THE PRESIDENT—And the question is on the adoption of the resolution as amended. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I think with a sligfht amendment that resolution will meet the unanimous support of the Convention. MR. deGRAFFENREID—It has already. MR. CUNNINGHAM—The resolution should be that here¬ after no resolution naming: the Democratic platform should be in¬ troduced. There were cries of dissent. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I am inclined to think that resolutions having: reference to the work of the Convention on certain lines of policy should be adopted but I think it would be improper in such resolutions for the reasons stated by the author of this reso¬ lution that the Democratic platform should be specifically men¬ tioned. Now, for instance, take the question of taxation. That could be passed on by a resolution without alluding to the Demo¬ cratic platform. Take the question of suffrag:e. That could be passed on by a resolution without alluding to the Democratic plat¬ form and so could the question of State Capitol. Now it strikes me that to constantly have this Convention reminded that the Democratic platform is in a measure to doubt our sincerity and I agree fully with the author of the resolution and evidently a ma¬ jority of the Convention that we should not be so constantly re¬ minded of these partisan pledges. We are bound by them indi¬ vidually and collectively, and I move to amend the resolution by inserting at the proper place that the platform shall not be alluded to by name, my purpose being that any resolution hereafter in¬ troduced in reference to the pledge of the Democratic party should not be out of order. I am ready now to vote on the tax rate and on many other questions, and I don't believe we should be de¬ prived of cutting off debate on the line that we are all necessarily compelled to follow. Mr. Rogers (Sumter) was here recognized, but yielded to Mr. Oates. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 239 MR. OATES—I rise for the purpose of inquiring of the dele¬ gate from Jefferson whether his amendment is necessary. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Montgomery de¬ sires to ask the delegate from Jefferson a question. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly. MR. OATES—Is your amendment necessary? What you suggest would be an order without the amendment. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Would a resolution setting forth the pledges be in order? MR. OATES—Yes. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Then I withdraw my amendment. Mr. Reese, standing in the center aisle, here obtained recog¬ nition from the chair. MR. HOWELL—I rise to a point of order. The rules say any member addressing the chair shall rise from his seat. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the chair, the point is well taken. Mr. Reese hurried to his seal and there obtained recognition. MR. REESE—It is not my purpose to be obstructive in this matter. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I rise to a question of privilege. I suppose that the chair recognized me and I was on the floor pre¬ vious to the gentleman from Dallas. THE PRESIDENT—The amendment was withdrawn and the chair did not understand that the gentleman from Sumter held the floor. The chair will recognize the gentleman immediately upon the conclusion of the remarks of the gentleman from Dallas. MR. REESE—It is not my purpose to antagonize or obstruct this convention, and this is not a partisan body. It is a convention of the people of Alabama and Democrats, Republicans and Popu¬ lists ought not to figure; but it is the pledges that we should bear in mind, and I am not in a position to follow the gentleman who would suggest methods by which they would furnish facility to the convention to forget those pledges they have made to the people I have no reference to the pledges that the Democratic party has made to the people, but it is the pledges of the delegates themselves, whether they are Democrats or not, those that have come in here under the auspices of that party have accepted the pledges. There is no necessity for constant reference to the fact that the Democratic party controls the convention, but in my opin¬ ion, it is a very useless lesson to let these gentlemen bear con¬ stantly in mind that they are under pledges to the people of Ala- 240 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS bama. I have seen instances in the ordinances that have been in¬ troduced in the body that some of them are forgetful of the prom¬ ises they have made in regard to taxation. Let us not forget those. There have been insidious methods introduced into this body under which the powers of taxation will be indirectly enlarged, and I, for one, want to go on record as not trying to put those pledges behind us where we can forget them. Mr. President, they ought to be stereotyped on this wall and this convention cannot be too frequently reminded of the fact that before they came here and when they were seeking this great trust—this great political power from the people of Alabama—that these pledges were constantly in their minds, and on their lips, and let us not put them behind us; let us not do a thing here today that will lead the people to believe that we are becoming oblivious to those promises. I think it is unwise to adopt this resolution. I think the decency and the intelligence of this body and the general sentiment of these dele¬ gates will restrain the members, and I, for one, believe the pas¬ sage of the resolution is unnecessary. It can never be wrong to refer to pledges that the great old party that sent us here has made to the people, and I, for one, am not ashamed to hear dele¬ gates here refer to it. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—There is an old trite saying that the proof of the pudding is in chewing the rag. The people of Alabama have chewed the rag of the Democratic party for forty or fifty years and have found it good. The people of the State of Alabama rely, and expect, without question, that the Democratic party shall carry out its pledges, and it seems to me a reflection upon a body of men the like of which has not assembled upon this floor since 1875, to continue to remind them by resolutions of pledges made and thereby raise a doubt in the minds of the peo¬ ple of the State of Alabama that we have come here to do some¬ thing which we promised not to do. Therefore, I now move the previous question upon this resolution. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I hope the gentleman will with¬ draw that motion for a moment. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I decline to withdraw. A vote being taken, the previous question was ordered, and a further vote being taken, the resolution was carried. MR. OATES—I desire to offer a resolution and have it re¬ ferred to the Committee on Rules. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I rise to a question of order. The gentleman from Sumter has his hat on. He has taken it off now. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I had no intentions to be disre¬ spectful, but I was intending to leave the hall. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 241 The resolution, No. 82, offered by Mr. Oates, was read as fol¬ lows : Resolved, That the present Constitution shall be the basis for action by this convention, and all of its provisions which are not abrog-ated by repeal nor amended shall be and remain parts of the new Constitution. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. OATES—Just one word in explanation. A ^ood many of the j>-entlemen here in offering propositions are repeating^ parts of the constitution that are now in existence and are not proposed to be changed; that work can be saved and that is the ob ject of this resolution. THE PRESIDENT—The same resolution was offered this morning and was referred to the Committee on Order, Consistency and Harmony of the whole Constitution. MR. OATES—That escaped my attention. I ask a reference of this to the Committee on Rules so that we can have a rule by which to be governed and thereby have the work to which I have referred. THE PRESIDENT—That would place the same resolution before two different committees. MR. OATES—The committee to which the first was referred does not act until after a ^reat part of the labor of the convention is performed and I offer this with a view of facilitating the pro¬ ceedings so as not to propose to re-enact parts of the constitution with which all are satisfied. THE PRESIDENT—At the suggestion of the gentleman, the chair will refer this resolution to the Committee on Rules and will also refer the resolution introduced by the gentleman from Lauderdale to that same Committee. Ordinance No. 162 by Mr. Samford: To provide for the distribution of school funds. Be it ordained, That Section 5, Article VII of the constitution be amended so as to read as follows: ‘‘The income arising from the Sixteenth Section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund until it is called for by the United States Government, and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this article, with such other moneys to be not less than $500,000 per annum, as the General Assembly shall provide by taxation, or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools and such funds as herein enumerated shall be di¬ vided between the different school townships throughout the State in proportion to the number of school children within the school 242 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS age, which funds shall be used by the township trustees for the exclusive benefit of the public education in their township, so that the number of school days allowed to the white race and to the colored race shall be equal, but in no event shall the township trustees establish more than two schools in such township for each race; and to the end that this section may be given full force, all school districts heretofore created be and the same are hereby abolished, and the General Assembly of this State is prohibited from hereafter establishing separate school districts, with powers or privileges in conflict with this section. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. ALMON—I rise to a point of order. The adjourning time has arrived. THE PRESIDENT—It lacks a half a minute to the adjourn¬ ing time and the Chair desires to make some announcements be¬ fore adjourning. The announcements were made and the Convention then ad¬ journed. NINTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., May 31, 1901. The Convention was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Neal Anderson as follows; Almighty God, we praise Thee that Thou hast brought us together again at the beginning of a new day. We have laid us down in peace and have slept and awakened because Thou didst make us to dwell in safety. Thou hast cast our lot in a pleasant and fruitful land. Thou hast blessed this people with good govern¬ ment and with peace. Thou hast set Thy tabernacle among us and Thy sanctuary in our midst. Thou hast caused us to dwell in a land that has before it by Th}' providence great future, a land of Goshen, We pray Thee than Thou wouldst open the eyes of Thy servants, that they may see the possibilities of the coming genera¬ tion, and that they may plan wisely and in the fear of god. We pray Thee that Thou wouldst place in the hearts of this people the love of righteousness and truth that they may always remem¬ ber that righteousness exalteth a people, and keep them, O God, from sin, which is a reproach upon any nation. Give unto Thy servants, the members of this Constitutional Convention, the spirit CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 243 of wisdom and of understanding, of counsel and light, and of the fear of God. We pray Thee, that those things which make for a people’s peace may not be hid from the eyes of those that sit in the people’s councils. May Thy servants be men who hate covet¬ ousness and love righteousness, and as we seek Thy blessing upon them and their labors, we pray Thy blessing upon those at home that Thou wouldst watch over them and keep them in Thine own dear keeping, that Thou wouldst grant that their lives and health and strength and their every interest may be precious in Thy sight, and grant unto us each one, O God, knowledge of the truth in Jesus for repencance of sin and forgiveness through the blood of Thy dear Son. Amen. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I ask unanimous consent before the calling of the roll to be allowed to make a motion before the Convention, which I think in the future will tend to shorten its deliberations. I move that from this day forward, unless a demand is made for the roll call, for the purpose of ascertaining whether or not a quorum is present, the roll be not called. The presump¬ tion is that all members are in their seats unless they have ob¬ tained leave of absence, and we will thus save ten or fifteen min¬ utes every morning. I understand this is the rule and custom in most deliberative bodies. It is the custom in Congress. As I say the presumption is that all members are in their seats unless leave of absence has already been obtained. MR. OATES—I am sorry I cannot concur with my friend, the dele.gate from Hale. He alluded to Congress. They never fail to call the roll to ascertain who are present. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I was told day before yesterday by a member of Congress, Hon. Geo. W. Taylor, that the calling of the roll was dispensed with and that there was no roll call in Congress unless it was done for the purpose of ascertaining whether or not there was a quorum. MR. OATES—Then they have degenerated into that practice since I had the honor of being a member. I think the calling of the roll is very important. It will consume a very short time. We have dispensed, practically, with the reading of the journal and I don’t think we should dispense with too much of what may be denominated proceedings. MR. WHITE—I rise to a point of order. That motion is out of order. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I ask for unanimous consent, if there is no objection. 244 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. WILLETT—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Hale asks unanimous consent, if there is no objection. It is in order to make the motion when he asks unanimous consent, unless there is objection. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair understands the point of order requires a suspension of the rules. . MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move a suspension of the rules, Mr. Chairman. MR. OATES—I submit the point of order by the delegate on the right is not well taken because the Chair never put the question to know whether there was objection or not. The dele¬ gate from Hale stated “if there was no objection,” but until the Chair puts the question whether there is objection, the point of order is not well taken. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move the suspension of the rules, and that in the future the roll call of this Convention in the morn¬ ing be dispensed with, unless it be demanded for the purpose of ascertaining whether or not a quorum is present. MR< BULGER—Mr. President, it looks to me, sir, like this is a very unwise measure— MR. WILLETT—I rise to a point of order, THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. WILLETT—A motion to suspend the rules is not de¬ batable. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. MR. GRAHAM (Talledega)—I rise to a point of order, the motion for suspension of the rules has not received a second. The motion was seconded. THE PRESIDENT—The motion of the gentleman from Hale is that the rules be suspended. MR, BEDDOW—I move that the motion of the gentleman from Hale be laid upon the table. Seconded. MR. WHITE—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point. MR. WHITE—You cannot lay on the table a motion of that character. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 245 THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. The question was put upon the motion to suspend the rules and on a vote the motion to suspend was lost. The roll was called and showed the presence of 123 delegfates^ a quorum. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business is the report of the Committee on Journal— MR. PETTUS—Mr. President, I desire to offer a resolution, relating^ to the proceedings. Resolution No. 83, by Mr. Pettus: Be it resolved, That hereafter all ordinances, and resolutions, offered in this Convention shall state briefly in the title the sub¬ stance of such ordinance or resolution and shall be read by the title only and referred to the appropriate committee, provided, that it shall be in order for any delegate to call for a full reading of such ordinance or resolution within a reasonable time after it has been read by the title. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution will not be in order at this time, except by unanimous consent. MR. PETTUS—I ask unanimous consent to have it referred to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman asks unanimous consent to have it referred to the Committee on Rules. Is there objection? No objection being made it is so referred. The report of the Committee on Journal was read, stating the journal has been examined and found correct. MR. PETTUS—T move that the report be accepted. MR. MORRISSETT—I move that the report be adopted. Seconded. The motion was carried. MR. KIRKLAND—I desire to ask leave of absence for to¬ morrow and Monday. The leave, was granted. MR. FOSTER—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Searcy of Tus¬ caloosa for today and tomorrow. Granted. MR, GRANT (Calhoun)—I desire to ask leave of absence for the delegate from Etowah County for tomorrow, Mr. Kyle. 246 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The leave was granted. MR. PORTER (Coosa)—I ask leave of absence for tomorrow and Monday. The leave was granted. MR. MILLER (Marengo)—I desire to ask leave of absence for tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday. The leave was granted. MR. JACKSON—I desire to ask leave of absence for this afternoon, tomorrow and Monday. The leave was granted. MR. MALONE—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Reynolds of Henry for today and tomorrow. The leave was granted. MR. WILSON (Washington)—I desire to ask leave of ab¬ sence for today and tomorrow for Mr. Gilmore of Clarke. The leave was granted. MR. McMillan (Wllcox)—I ask leave of absence for Mr. McMillan of Baldwin for Monday. The leave was granted. MR. BRONWE—I move, Mr, President, when this conven¬ tion adjourns today, that it adjourn to meet at 11 o’clock on Mon¬ day. The motion was seconded, MR. BROWNE—I move to suspend the rules in order that the motion may be put on its passage. The motion to suspend was seconded. MR. FOSTER—Mr. President, I move to amend that motion by changing the hour to 12 o clock Monday. MR. BROWNE—I accept the amendment. MR. PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Talladega moves when this convention adjourns today that it adjourn to meet at 12 o’clock on Monday. The motion was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The question now is upon the reading of the journal. MR. BOONE—Mr. President, I move that the reading of the journal be dispensed with. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 247 The motion was seconded and carried. MR. FREEMAN—I desire to ask leave of absence for my¬ self for Monday. Granted. MR. COBB (Macon)—I ask leave of absence for Monday for myself. Granted. MR. FOSTER—I have an ordinance, which was referred to the Committee on Amendments of the Constitution, relating to the working of roads by taxation. I ask the President to consider whether it should not be referred to the Committee on Taxation. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is correct, and at the suggestion of the gentleman from Tuscaloosa, the ordinance will be referred to the Committee on Taxation. MR. STEWART—I ask leave of absence for Monday. The leave was granted. MR. MAXWELL—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mon¬ day. The leave was granted. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I ask leave of absence for Monday. The leave was granted. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I desire to ask leave of absence for Monday. The leave was granted. MR. LOWE (Lawrence)—I desire to ask leave of absence for myself for Monday. The leave was granted. MR. ESPY—I have a resolution I desire to have read. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution is not in order at this time. MR. ESPY—I ask unanimous consent that it be referred to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Henry asks unani¬ mous consent— MR. WILLETT—I object. I insist on the regular order. 248 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I would be glad if the clerk would inform the House whether, with the number of leaves of absence which have been granted for Monday, a quorum can be obtained on that day? I think the convention would be glad to know that fact. THE PRESIDENT—Seventeen leaves have been granted. The chair thinks there will be no difficulty about a quorum. The Secretary will continue the roll call where he left off on yesterda}". MR. MORRISSETT—The gentleman from Limestone has of¬ fered a resolution, which was referred to the Committee on Rules, with reference to reading ordinances and resolutions by their titles. I heartily concur in that resolution, but if the Committee on Rules reports favorably upon the resolution and an ordinance is read by its title, will it be included in the stenographic report? THE PRESIDENT—It is impossible for the chair to state whether the Committee on Rules will report it, or report it fa¬ vorably. MR. MORRISSETT—I understand, but the idea is, if the Committee on Rules will report it favorably, still the ordinances and resolutions will be included in full in the stenographic report. MR. GRAYSON—Mr. President, I move, sir, that we recon¬ sider the motion by which we just agreed to adjourn over until next Monday. Now, on last Saturday there was merit in that ad¬ journment. simply because the committees had not been formed, and the business of the convention had not been fairly started, but now many of us live a long way off, and we have come here to do the business of the State, and I hold, sir, that it is our duty to re¬ main here on Saturday and proceed with the business that is be¬ fore us. MR. VAUGHAN—Mr. President, I move that we proceed with the regular order. THE PRESIDENT—Let me state the question—The gentle¬ man from Madison moves to reconsider the vote by which this convention determined to adjourn when it adjourns today, to meet on Monday. MR. WILLETT—I rise to a point of order. A motion to re¬ consider an adjournment is not in order. A motion to adjourn after the House has decided to adjourn to a time definite is not re¬ considerable. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the chair, the point of order is well taken. MR. MULKEY—I desire to ask leave of absence for Monday and Tuesday. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 249 The leave was granted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will proceed to call the roll. Ordinance No. 163, by Mr. Sanders: An ordinance to amend Article VIII. of the Constitution by striking out the whole thereof, and inserting the following touching all who will be eligible to register, vote and hold office in Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled: First—That every male citizen of the State, and of the United States, native born or naturalized, not less than 21 years of age, and possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector, and shall be entitled to vote at any election in the State by the people, except as may be herein or other¬ wise provided. Second—He shall have resided in the State of Alabama for one year, in the county six months, and in the precinct, ward or other election district, in which he offers to vote, for three months next preceding the election. Provided, the removal from one precinct, ward, or other election district to another in the same county, shall not operate to deprive any person of the right to vote in the precinct, ward, or other election district from which he has removed, until three months after such removal: and provided, that no soldier, sailor, nor marine in the military service of the United States, shall acquire a residence by being stationed in this State. Third—Every person offering to vote shall be at the time a legally regis¬ tered voter and in the manner hereinafter provided by law; and the Gen¬ eral Assembly of Alabama shall enact general registration laws to carry into effect the provisions of this article. Fourth—Every person presenting himself for registration shall be able to read and write any section of the Constitution of this State, and of the United States, in the English language. But no male person who was on January 1st, in 1867, or at any time prior thereto, entitled to vote under laws of any State of the United States wherein he then resided, and no lineal descendant of any such person shall be denied the right to register and vote at any election in this State by reason of his failure to possess the education¬ al qualification herein prescribed; Provided, he shall have registered in ac¬ cordance with the terms of this Section prior to December 1, 1911. After said date no person thereafter arriving at the age of 21 years shall be eligible to register, vote or hold office in this State who does not possess the quali¬ fications of an elector hereinabove prescribed in this section. Fifth—The General Assembly shall provide for the registration of all persons entitled to vote without the educational qualification herein pre¬ scribed; and shall on, or before, November 1, 1911, provide for the making of a permanent record of such registration; and all persons registered shall forever thereafter have the right to vote in all elections by the people in this State, unless disqualified under Section 2 of this Article, and under the next succeeding section thereof. 250 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sixth—The following persons shall not be permitted to vote, or to regis¬ ter as voters, or to hold public office in this State, while their disabilities continue, namely: Those who deny the existence of Deity; those who are idiots or insane; those who shall have been convicted of giving or receiving any bribe to influence voters or any election officers, with reference to any election: those who have been convicted or who shall confess their guilt upon indictment pending of any offense punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, unless their disabilities have been removed according to law. Seventh—All elections by the people shall be by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. Eighth—Electors shall in all cases, except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, or while going to or returning therefrom. Ninth—^The General Assembly shall pass laws not inconsistent with this Constitution, to regulate and govern elections in this State, and all such laws shall be uniform throughout the State. Tenth—It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass adequate laws affording protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxi¬ cating liquors at all elections in this State. Eleventh—Persons who are not citizens of the United States, and who are not descended from a father or mother belonging to the white race, shall not be eligible to any office under the Constitution and laws of this State. Twelfth—All persons elected to public office in this State, before enter¬ ing upon the duties of the office, shall take and subscribe the following oath: I, .., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and maintain the Constitution and the laws of the United States, and the Con¬ stitution and laws of the State of Alabama, not inconsistent therewith and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of my office as .-., so help me God. Thirteenth—Returns of elections for all civil officers who are to be commissioned by the Governor except Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer, and Attorney General, and for members of the General Assembly, shall be made to the Secretary of the State. Referred to Committee on Suffrag’e and Elections. Ordinance 164, by Mr. John W. A. Sanford: An ordinance to amend Section 54 of Article IV., and to au¬ thorize the State to construct and own works of internal improve¬ ment. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 54 of Article IV. of the Constitution, be amended by striking out the words: “The State shall not engage in works of internal improvements,'' so that the section shall read CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 251 as follows: “The State may construct and own works of internal improvements having for their object the conveyance and transpor¬ tation of passengers and freight; but shall not lend ‘its money or credit in aid of such ; nor shall the State be interested in any private corporate enterprise; or lend money or its credit to any individual, association, or corporation.’ ” Be it further ordained. That the State shall have no power to sell, mortgage, lease or alienate in any manner such internal works of improvement to any individual, association or corporation. Be it further ordained. That only persons convicted of crime shall be employed as laborers in the construction of such works of internal improvements. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 165, by Mr. Sanford (Montgomery) : An ordinance to prohibit the General Assembly from abolish¬ ing the military system of education in the University of Alabama and in the Alabama Polytechnic Institute. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly shall have no power to abolish, or to authorize any Board of Trustees to abolish, the sys¬ tem of military education in the University of Alabama and in the Alabama Polytechnic Institute. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 166, by Mr. Sanford (Montgomery) : An ordinance to amend Section 2 of Article I. of the Consti¬ tution by striking out the words “or who shall have legally declared their intention to become citizens of the United States.” Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assem¬ bled, That Section 2 of Article I. (Declaration of Rights) be amended by striking out the words, “or shall have legally declared their intention to become citizens of the United States,” so that the section shall read as follows: Sec. 2. That all persons who are residents in this State, born in the United States or naturalized, are hereby declared citizens of the State of Alabama, possessing equal civil and political rights. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. Resolution 84, by Mr. Sanford (Montgomery): Resolved, That during the call of the roll for the introduction of resolutions and ordinances no discussion upon any subject shall be heard by the Convention, and all such discussion shall be con¬ sidered out of order. 252 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SANFORD—I move that the rules be suspended so that the Convention can act on that resolution immediately. A vote beingf taken, the Convention refused to suspend the rules, the vote on division beings 46 ayes, 54 nays. The resolution was referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 167, by Mr. Selheimer: An ordinance to amend Section 29 of Article IV. of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 29 of Article IV. of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so that the same shall read as follows: The General Assembly shall have no power to ffrant, or to authorize or require any county or municipal authority to grant, nor shall any county or municipal authority have power to grant, any extra compensation, fee or allowance to any public officer, servant or employee, agent or contractor, after service shall have been rendered or contract made; nor shall any officer of the State bind the State to the payment of any sum of money but by au¬ thority of law. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 168, by Mr. Selheimer; To amend Section 13 of Article V of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 13 of Article V of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so that the same shall read as follows: Every bill which shall have passed both houses of the General Assembly shall be presented to the Governor; if he approve he shall sign it, but if he shall not approve he shall return it with his objections to that house in which it shall have originated, which house shall enter the objections at large upon its journal and pro¬ ceed to reconsider it. If, after such reconsideration, a majority of the whole number elected to that house shall vote for the passage of said bill, it shall be sent with the objections, to the other house by which it shall likewise be reconsidered; if approved by a ma¬ jority of the whole number elected to that house, it shall become a law; but in such cases the votes of both houses shall be de¬ termined by yeas and nays, and the names of the members voting for and against the bill shall be entered upon the journals of each house respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the Gov¬ ernor within five days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the General Assembly by their adjourn- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 253 merit prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law unless the Governor, within ten days after such adjournment, shall sign the same and deposit it in the office of the Secretary of State, in which case it shall become a law in like manner as if it had been sig^ned by him before adjournment. And every order, vote or resolution to which the concurrence of both houses may be neces¬ sary (except questions of adjournment and of bringingf on elec¬ tions for the two houses and of amending the Constitution) shall be presented to the Governor and before it shall take effect, be ap¬ proved by him, or being disapproved, be repassed by both houses according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 169, by Mr. Sentell: Relating to exemptions. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 2 of Article X of present Constitution be amended by incorporating into said section the following: “Such resident may select and have set apart as a homestead, a residence in any town or city and also a parcel or tract of land any where in the county of such residence, Provided the area of both does not exceed 160 acres and the value of both does not ex¬ ceed $2,000. Exemptions. Mr. Sloan yielded his time to Mr. Beavers. Mr. Beavers of¬ fered memorial, which was read as follows: To the President and Delegates of the Convention of the People of the State of Alabama: With the view of asking the Constitutional Convention for relief from the act purporting to have been passed by the recent General Assembly of Alabama, removing the .county seat of Shelby County from Columbiana to Calera, we have prepared the following statement, in order that the mem¬ bers of the convention may be thoroughly informed as to the manner of the passage of the act to wit: In 1895, an election was held in Shelby County under authority of an act of the General Assembly passed at the instance of the citizens of Calera to permanently locate the county seat of the County—the places voted for being Columbiana and Calera, Columbiana carried this election by 826 ma¬ jority. This was intended to settle this question. But at the session of the General Assembly of 1898-9, another act was passed, also at the instance of Calera, providing for another election on this same question, Columbiana and Calera being the only places to be voted for. Calera was given four years in which to call said election. Two years of said time has elapsed and no election has been called. 254 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS At the last session of the General Assembly (session of 1900-1) an act was alleged to have been passed directly removing the county seat from Columbiana to Calera. This act was passed secretly and fraudulently, and with the knowledge of possibly not exceeding a half dozen citizens of the county, and certainly contrary to the will and wish of a large majority of the citizens and tax payers of the county, and, notwithstanding the members of the General Assembly from Shelby County had assured the people of the county that they would not introduce any legislation pertaining to the court house. The fact if the introduction, pendency and passage of this bill was, in some unexplained manner kept out of the daily report of the proceedings of the legislature as made by the newspapers of the State, no reference thereto having been made in any of the papers until the morning after the General Assembly had adjourned when the fact of the passage of the act the day previous appeared in the daily papers. This is the first intimation that the people of the County had of the existence of the act. Letters were at once written to all the members of the General Assembly asking information in regard to the passage of the bill. Seventy-four mem¬ bers answered that they never heard of such a bill until after the adjourn¬ ment of the General Assembly, and only three or four wrote that they had any knowledge of it, and their knowledge was of the most meager and in¬ definite character. Thirty-eight of the sixty-nine members of the House who appear from the journal to have voted for the bill say they never heard of such a bill. The others have not yet been heard from. Eight members of the Committee on County and County Boundaries in the House, to which Committee this bill was referred, appear to have signed their names across the back of the original bill, making a favorable report thereon. Six out of the said eight members say they not only did not make such report, but that they never heard of the bill. Hon. W. E. Striplin of Elmore County, appears to have signed said favorable report and said bill, and acting chairman. That gentleman writes a letter in reference to the same, a copy of which is as follows: Tallassee, Ala,, May 7, 1901. Hon. J. R. White, Columbiana, Ala.: My dear Sir—In reply to yours of the 26th of April, beg to say, that I have no knowledge of the passage of the court house bill in your County. I don’t remember one thing about it. I notice they have me reported as acting chairman when the bill was reported, but I am certain that was not the bill. It was a little stock bill, I think. They may have had a blank cover on it, and after getting our names on it, removed it to the court house bill. I am sure I never saw the courthouse bill. Yours truly, W. E. StripHn. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 255 The other letters of the members of said Committee are strong and emphatic. They are in our possession here and any one desiring to see them may do so by applying to the undersigned. The wrapper or cover enclosing this bill, which is House bill No. 1587, on the back of which is no endorsement of the caption of the act, bears convincing evidence of having been the cover of some other bill or paper before it was made the cover of this one—thus corroborating the suggestion contained in the letter of Mr. Striplin, Acting Chairman, that the cover with the favorable report thereon must have been removed from some other bill and used as the cover of the Court House bill. Hon. C. C. Whitson, a prominent member of the last House, was re¬ quested by those who opposed the removal of the Court House from Co¬ lumbiana to observe closely the legislation from Shelby County and to inform the friends of Columbiana of any legislation that might be attempted in reference to the Court House. He writes that he watched closely after this matter all the while, and never heard of any such measure until the adjournment. He is put down as voting for the bill. Hon. J. L. Peters of Columbiana, defeated Democratic candidate for the legislature attending on the session of the legislature much of the time, looking after the legislation for the County. He says he never heard of the bill. The act places an enforced indebtedness of about $75,000 (principal and interest) on the tax payers of Shelby County. Moreover, it removed the county seat from near the center of the County to a place within two miles of the boundary line of Chilton. While Shelby County has been Populite for the past twelve years, the Democratic party succeeded in electing a Democrat as delegate to this Convention upon a platform pledging him to use all honorable means to se¬ cure, through this Convention, relief against the provisions of said act, al¬ though the candidate of the opposition was in favor of the removal of the County seat to Calera—thus again showing the will of the people of the County against the removal of the County seat. Both the Democratic and Populist parties of the County in their respec¬ tive Conventions assembled, condemned, in strongest terms, the passage of the act. In view of the foregoing facts and conditions and for the protection of the tax payers of Shelby County and for the purpose of righting the out¬ rageous wrong, we earnestly request that you adopt such measure as will give relief against the provisions of the alleged act of the last legislature so removing the Court House from Columbiana to Calera. Yours respectfully, (Signed) D. R. McMillan, A. P. Longshore, J. R. White, Gordon DuBose, W. B. Browne, Citizens Committee. 256 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance 170, by Mr. J. R. Beavers: To declare null and void the act of March 5th, 1901, with ac¬ companying memorial (relates to County seat of Shelby County). Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that the act entitled an Act to provide for the removal of the County seat of Shelby County from Columbiana to Calera: to authorize an issue of County bonds to raise money for the erec¬ tion of a Court House and jail and to provide for the erection of such building at Calera; to provide for paying for the interest and principal of said bonds; to appoint a Board of Court House Com¬ missioners and to prescribe their duties and compensation, ap¬ proved March 5th, 1901, be and the same is hereby declared null and void. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. MR. SMITH—I desire to make a report from the Committee on Rules. The report was read as follows: The Committee on Rules begs to report to the Convention that it has had under consideration the resolutions hereinafter mentioned, and reports thereon as follows: The Committee reports favorably upon Resolution No. 41, in¬ troduced by Mr. Altman of Sumter, and recommends its adoption by the Convention. Said resolution reads as follows: Be it resolved. That 300 copies of the Bill of Rights and Con¬ stitution be printed and distributed among the members of the Convention and Committees. The Committee reports favorably to Resolution No. 34, in¬ troduced by Mr. Reese of Dallas, and recommends its adoption by the Convention, which resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That for the purpose of easy reference, the Rules Committee, or such other committee as shall have supervision of the printing of the record of the proceeding, shall cause the pages constituting such record to be numbered consecutively in the same manner now practiced in the Congressional Record of the Congress. The Committee reports favorably to Resolution No. 71, in¬ troduced by Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale, and recommends its adop¬ tion by the Convention, which resolution reads as follows: A resolution to adopt the present Constitution of the State of Alabama by this Convention, subject to such revisions and amend¬ ments in any Article, Section or part thereof as this Convention may hereafter determine. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 257 That whereas, the act of the General Assembly of Alabama, which provided for the holding^ of this Convention, declares that this Convention shall continue in session until it shall by careful revisions and amendments of the present Constitution frame and adopt a revised Constitution for this State. Therefore be it resolved. That the present Constitution of the State of Alabama be, and the same is hereby adopted by this Con¬ vention as the Constitution of the State of Alabama, subject only to be revised, amended or altered, in any Article, Section or Clause, or part thereof. The Committee reports adversely to Resolution No. 82, in¬ troduced by Mr. Oates of Montgomery, and recommends that it be not adopted by the Convention, because the operation of the resolution of Mr. Oates is identical with the operation of Resolu¬ tion No. 71, by Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale, hereinabove reported favorably, and the Committee reports adversely to this resolution only for the reason that its subject matter is fully covered by the resolution of Mr. O’Neal. Said resolution No. 82, introduced by Mr. Oates, reads as follows: Resolved, That the present Constitution shall be the basis for action by this Convention and all of its provisions which are not abrogated by repeal nor amended shall be and remain parts of the new Constitution. The Committee reports favorably to resolution No. 76 intro¬ duced by Mr. Proctor of Jackson, and recommends its adoption by the Convention. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That the reading each day of the Journal of this Convention be dispensed with unless the same is demanded by the Convention. The Committee reports favorably to resolution No. 80, in¬ troduced by Mr. Reese of Dallas, and recommends its adoption by the Convention. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That Rule 27 be and is hereby amended as follows, by adding at the end thereof the following words: “Provided, that any vote taken on the last day of the session of this Convention may be reconsidered on same day.” The Committee reports adversely to resolution No. 50, in¬ troduced by Mr. Henderson of Pike, and recommends that it be not adopted by the Convention, for the reason that Resolution No. 41, introduced by Mr. Altman of Sumter, covers the same matter and has been favorably reported. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That 500 copies of the present Constitution be printed for the use of members of this Convention. 258 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The said resolutions hereinabove referred to are herewith re¬ turned to the Convention. MR. PETTUS—It seems to me that the resolution reported by the Committee on Rules and offered by the gentleman from Lauderdale, Mr. O'Neal, is very important, and as I do not fully Understand it, I should like to have that part of the report read over again or I would call for a division of the report so that I cim vote separately on that proposition. THE PRESIDENT—Which do you want? MR. PETTUS—I call for the reading first. The clerk read the part of the report referred to. MR. BLACKWELL—I would like to ask a question. Is not the present constitution, the Constitution of the State of Alabama untU we make a new one without adopting a resolution to that eHect. ‘ THE PRESIDENT—Does the delegate ask that question of the Chair? ' ‘ MR. BLACKWELL—Yes, sir. . THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, the consti¬ tution now in force will continue in force until it is repealed or a new constitution adopted. MR. SOLLIE—But for the fact that side issues are being brought in I would not make the point of order, I am about to make. We are proceeding with the roll call of members for the purpose of the introduction of ordinances, resolutions, etc., and the reports of committees, either standing or special are out of order. MR. WILSON (Clark.)—^Under the rules, the Committee on Rules can report at any time. I desire to offer a substitute for the proposition of the gentleman from Lauderdale and I ask that it be read. MR. WHITE—May I inquire Mr. Chairman if I had not the floor. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair had recognized the gentle¬ man from Clark. MR. WHITE—I understand that, but I understood only for the purpose of making a point of order. ^ MR. WILSON—I rose before the gentleman from Dale in¬ terposed a point of order and I rose to offer a substitute. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 259 THE PRESIDENT—-When the Chair recognized the gentle¬ man from Jefferson he supposed the gentleman from Clark had taken his seat, but found that he had not. The substitute offered by Mr. Wilson (Clark) was read as follows: Resolved by the convention that each committee report to thfe convention the article or section of the present constitution which it is proper for said committee to consider as to which no amend¬ ment has been proposed and which in the judgment of the com¬ mittee having charge of the article or section should not be amend¬ ed. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the substitute. MR. WILSON (Clark)—I favor the reason for the resolution proposed by the gentleman from Lauderdale, but it has occurred to me that his resolution was not certain enough to enable the convention to decide as to what matters in the judgment of the convention should be considered and what should not be. It seems to me the only direct way to get at the matter is for each com¬ mittee to take up the matter of which it has jurisdiction and con¬ sider the article and report back to the convention all of the sec¬ tions in that article as to which no amendment is pending and as to which in the judgment of the committee no amendment should be proposed and report that matter back to the convention, then leave us to consider such matters as the committees think should be considered and such matters as gentlemen have proposed amendments to. That was my purpose in offering the substitute for the resolution. MR. WHITE—I much prefer the substitute to the original resolution, but I am not prepared to say that I shall support that. It looks like now we are going to complicate ourselves very se¬ riously by the adoption of this resolution or possibly by the adop¬ tion of the substitute. When we once adopt that, then that is the constitution, not by virtue of the fact that it is already the constitution but by virtue of our action in adopting it. Then we cannot amend that constitution after having so adopted it unless we suspend the operation of that resolution and we can only do that by giving notice of a motion to reconsider it today and re¬ consider it tomorrow. In other words, it seems to me we tie our hands when we have once adopted that resolution; then the pres¬ ent constitution becomes the constitution whic^' we have already adopted and we will find our hands tied' In tha^ we can only get rid of these provisions by a motion to reconsider or by a motion to suspend the rules which takes a two-thirds vote of the conven¬ tion to carry. I think we should consider very seriously this resolution before we adopt it. 260 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS A reading of the original resolution which was favorably re¬ ported on by the Committee on Rules and of the substitute offered by the delegate from Clark was called for and had. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—It seems to me there is a misunder¬ standing as to the purpose of the original resolution. The purpose of the original resolution as the committee under¬ stood it was to relieve us of the necessity of introducing a number of resolutions, the object and purpose of which were to re-enact certain sections of the present constitution as they now are; and the idea was that it would be unnecessary at this time or at least until the Committee on Harmony had finally reported the constitution, to offer any ordinance whose sole pur¬ pose was to re-enact any existing provision of the constitution. The purpose of the ordinance was to have an understanding that everything that was not amended or repealed by an ordinance in¬ troduced and passed would be considered and adopted as a part of the final constitution. Now, as to the substitute: It seems to me it does not get at it as directly as the original motion. It directs the committee, it is true, to report such portions of the constitution as have not been adopted but it does not create the distinction which the original resolution does, that all portions of the constitution not affected by the work of this convention shall stand as part of the new constitution. The objections of the gentleman from Jefferson seems to me not well taken as we are now proceeding in a number of instances by the introduction of ordinances whose sole purpose is to re¬ enact portions of the constitution—we are falling into the same embarrassment that my friend points out as the result of this reso¬ lution. We here adopt before the matter has been fully considered a portion of the existing constitution as a part of the new consti¬ tution. Later on a gentleman introduces a resolution to conflict with it or a committee when it comes to report upon an article makes a report in conflict with it and in each and every instance an inquiry would be made as to whether or not some previous motion or resolution has to be considered before that new ordi¬ nance or report of committee can be taken up and considered. MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a question? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—Yes, sir. MR. WHITE—Suppose that some member should want to introduce some measure that is entirely a new law, and does not form any part of the present Constitution, are we not limited by that resolution to simply amending, altering, or changing the present Constitution? In other words, have we the opportunity under that resolution to introduce measures entirely new and not embraced by that? In other words, can we do anything, except alter, amend, or change the present Constitution if that is adopted ? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 261 MR. SMITH (Mobile)—In reply to the gentleman, I beg to say that in my opinion it does not prevent any change of any kind or description. If a resolution is offered, expressly repealing, or in conflict with any provision of the present Constitution, it seems to me that by its own force it alters the Constitution to that extent. MR. WILLETT—^Will the gentleman alfow we to ask a question? THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman consent to be in¬ terrupted ? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—Yes. MR. WILLETT—Suppose I should introduce the bill of rights here as a resolution, who passes upon it? Under that rule as the delegate from Pickens, I send forward to the clerk’s desk a resolu¬ tion. Does the journal show it, or is it ruled out, under that reso¬ lution? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—It seems to me that it wuold be directly in conflict with the resolution now offered. MR. WILLETT—Then what becomes of my resolution? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I think it would have the same effect as if you offered to reintroduce a resolution which had already been adopted by the convention. MR. WILLETT—Would the chair order that resolution stricken from the journal? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I am not able to answer the gentle¬ man for lack of parliamentary experience. The gentleman, I believe, is more of a parliamentarian than I am. I am informed, however, that the chair would refer it to the committee. As far as I am able to go personally, is to say that it would be asking the convention to do over a second time what has already been done. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—Mr. President, at the proper time, I wish to introduce the following resolution— THE PRESIDENT—The question is upon— MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—Yes, sir; but I propose to use this as a part of my remarks. “Resolved, That the Committee on the Order and Harmony of the Constitution be directed to report back to the convention, when they make final report such parts of the old Constitution as have not been amended by the proposed ordinances, as a part of the proposed new Constitution.” 262 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS It seems to me, Mr. President, that the adoption of this reso¬ lution would obviate the objection made by the g^entleman from Jefferson. The object of the proposed resolution by the gfentle- man from Lauderdale was to obviate the necessity of reading parts of the old Constitution, whicrf will be accepted by all members of this convention. Now, if this Committee on the Order and Harmony of the Constitution be directed to report back to this convention such parts of the old Constitution as have not been amended, and the report of this committee be taken up and acted upon, if that course be adopted, we will neither adopt the old Constitution at this time, nor will we in any manner hamper the action of the convention. I will propose this resolution at the proper time. It is not proper now, but I will propose to offer it a« a substitute for the substitute. I will not offer this as an amendment, Mr. President, to the amendment which has been offered. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Colbert offers to amend the amendment offered by the gfentleman from Clarke. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Let it be sent up and read from the clerk’s desk. The resolution was ag’ain read. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Mr. President, the House will re¬ member that during; the past three or four days, we have spent most of our time in receiving ordinances and resolutions from the various members of this Convention. A great many of those ordinances were but reiterations of the present Constitution, in many particulars. There was, occasionally, an ordinance intro¬ duced which had as its basis, an entire article of the Constitution, with only one or two changes. The result was that we were lis¬ tening to the reading of a long ordinance, re-enacting in nearly every particular the present Constitution, and making only an important change therein. It was thought by the Committee on Rules, that, if this resolutions of Mr. O’Neal’s was adopted, we would have before us a framework upon which to build; that it would be unnecessary for this Convention, for instance, to con¬ sider the question as to whether or not there should be an increase in the tax rate in the State of Alabama, or whether or not there should be an increase in the powers of corporations, in this State, unless there were resolutions introduced by the members of the Convention, tending to such increases of taxation or powers. Now the gentleman from Jefferson asks the question, Mr. President, as to whether or not, if some member had something that was entirely new, something that does not now exist in the Constitu¬ tion, if he would not have to move a suspension of the rules, and ask that it be introduced. Not at all. The resolution of the gen¬ tleman from Lauderdale provides simply that the present Consti¬ tution as it now exists shall be the Constitution adopted by this CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 263 Convention, subject to such alterations, amendments or chang^es as this Convention may see proper to make therein. The intro¬ duction of anything that is new, would be an amendment to the Constitution. We have been here now for something like two weeks dis¬ cussing the Fourteenth and Fifteenth amendments to the Consti¬ tution of the United States. The Fourteenth and Fifteenth amend¬ ments introduced entirely new matter into the Constitution of the United States, and they became amendments because of the fact that they did introduce new matter therein. It seems to me, Mr. President, as I stated to commence with, that this simply gives us a frame upon which to work. We will have something upon which to build. For instance, take the exemptions— MR. WILLETT—Who is to decide whether it amends the Constitution, or whether it is new? MR. deGRAFFENRElD—It does not matter. The Conven¬ tion has the power to determine. The Convention determines all questions before it. We have a presiding officer who rules upon all questions, but if his ruling is inconsistent with the opinion of the Convention, it is overruled. I was going to say, Mr. President, that the subject of exemp¬ tions : is it necessary that this Convention pass an ordinance re¬ enacting the present exemption laws in the Constitution? Is it necessary that this Convention pass an ordinance re-enacting the article on the subject of taxation? It seems to me that the reso¬ lution of the gentleman from Lauderdale leaves it within the power of this Convention to do every act that this Convention can do without it, and I, therefore, Mr. President, move that the resolu¬ tion of the gentleman from Clarke, as amended by the gentleman from Colbert, be laid on the table. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I ask the gentleman to withdraw a moment— MR. deGRAFFENRElD—All right sir, I will, and renew it when you finish your remarks. MR. CUNNINGHAM—As a member of the Committee on Rules, I desire simply to explain my understanding of the purpose of this resolution offered by the delegate from Lauderdale. In the first place, it was not to give the legal force to the present Con¬ stitution. We all know that the present Constitution stands until the new Constitution shall have been proposed by this Convention, ratified by the people, and proclaimed by the Governor. The whole question is one of parliamentary procedure, and nothing else. The misunderstanding of the Convention arises from the preamble and not from the resolution itself. 264 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The gentleman from Hale has solved the problem when he says that it is looking to amendments and revisions of the Con¬ stitution, and the real purpose of the Committee, and the author of the resolution, was to save the time and the expense of printing. If the gentleman from Jefferson desires to amend an article of the Constitution entirely with new matter he would simply introduce an ordinance amending such article, and the amendment would consist of striking out and inserting, if he only wanted to amend a section of a certain article. MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a ques¬ tion? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly. MR. WHITE—Suppose he wanted to introduce an entirely new article? MR. WHITE—Suppose he did not want to strike out? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Then if the gentleman will wait, I will answer the question. If you want to substitute certain por¬ tions of an article or section, you would move to strike out, and insert those portions; if you wanted to insert new matter, aifd have the old matter removed, he would simply move to insert the new matter; if he wants to add a section, he would amend by adding such section to the article. The purpose, sir, is to save the time of the Convention in read¬ ing articles of the present Constitution over and over in order to get at one little amendment—probably one word. One ordinance has been before some committee that I am a member of, I do not remember which now, that was a number of pages, that simply added one word, one word. Now the proper way, would be to do this; a delegate who desires to amend any section, or article of the Constitution, would say, “amend by striking out and inserting such section,” or any such article, and inserting the proposed amendment; and only the amendment would, therefore, be read and go on the minutes of this Convention, and that would save a great deal of time, and a great deal would be gained. MR. MACDONALD—Would that probably put this conven¬ tion in the position of ratifying and confirming, and adopting the Constitution right now, which we were called here to amend? MR. CUNNINGHAM—No, sir. MR. MACDONALD—In other words would not we be voting aboslutely against the amendments we are proposing here, and adopt the sections we want to amend? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly not, because as yet we have not amended a single punctuation point in the Constitution. As I say, it is simply a question of parliamentary procedure and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 265 nothing else. It does not affect the question, as far as adopting the present Constitution is concerned, and I believe if the Conven¬ tion understood it, they can see the great amount of time that can be saved, not only in reading, but in printing. MR. FOSTER—Would not the effect of the resolution be to prevent the introduction of any ordinances? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly not. You may strike out an entire article, or strike out an entire section. Here is what I understand it to be; that hereafter all ordinances proposing to amend the Constitution shall contain only the changes proposed. That is what we mean. MR. FOSTER—That is what I want to know. If the gen¬ tleman will allow me, if a delegate desires to introduce an or¬ dinance re-enacting in exact terms, a section of the present Con¬ stitution, he would be out of order under this resolution. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Re-enacting in exact terms? I think he would be out of order. MR. FOSTER—I make the point of order, Mr. President, that you cannot limit the legislative right of the delegates on this floor. MR. WILLETT—I second the point of order. MR. FOSTER—The introduction of an ordinance is a legis¬ lative right of the delegates. You cannot trammel them in that way as to how they will proceed— MR. CUNNINGHAM—In answering the point of order. I believe I have a right THE CHAIR—I did not hear the point of order. MR. FOSTER—^The point of order is this; that the introduc¬ tion of ordinances is the legislative function of the delegate and you cannot by this rule, prevent the introductiCn of any ordinance by any delegate, no more than you can prevent by rule adopted by the legislature, the introduction of a bill by a member into the legislature. THE PRESIDENT—The chair would rule that the adoption of this rule would not prevent any delegate from introducing any ordinance he might see proper. MR. WILLETT—Mr. President— MR. CUNNINGHAM—^The gentleman from Hale yielded the floor to me to give my understanding of this rule, and I, of course, leave the floor to the member from Hale. 266 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. deGRAFFENRElD—Mr. President, I made a motion that these amendments be laid upon the table. It was seconded by Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale. Mr. O’Neal has introduced this resolution, and he has requested that I withdraw that motion for the purpose of allowing him to be heard by the Convention, and I do it, for that purpose. MR. BROWNE—I avsk the gentleman for leave to make two or three minutes remarks on the subject, in answer to the gentle¬ man from Jefferson. Leave was granted. MR. BROWNE—Mr. President, the gentleman from Jeffer¬ son asked a question that I do not think has been entirely answered, and that is whether or not this resolution will cut off the right to introduce an ordinance on an entirely different subject from those already embraced in the present constitution. It certainly would not have the effect of cutting off such right. He would then sim¬ ply introduce an ordinance to amend the constitution of Alabama, by adding thereto a separate article upon a separate subject, if it was necessary to have a separate article. If the amendment would not properly come under any of the present sub-divisions of the constitution, he would simply offer an ordinance to amend the whole constitution by adding a separate article, upon a separate subject. Mr. President, the reason for this resolution is simply for the purpose of putting the delegates upon notice that in wTiting an amendment to the same section of the same article, it is unnecessary for them to re-write the other sections of the same article. MR. WHITE—I desire to ask the gentleman from Talladega, have’nt we exactly that right now? MR. BROWNE—We have that right now, except— MR. WHITE—That he does not know it. (Laughter.) MR. BROWNE—But I will state for the information of the gentleman, that a great many delegates are writing amendments to certain sections, and for the purpose of amending certain sec¬ tions are re-writing the whole article, when it is entirely unneces¬ sary, but even after the adoption of this resolution if any dele^'ie is so fond of writing that he still desires to re-write the whole article as well as the section he proposes to amend, he can still do so. MR. WILLETT—What is the object then of the adoption of the report of the Committee on Rules? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 267 MR. BROWNE—Simply for the purpose of allowing all dele¬ gates to understand it is not necessary, and with the hope that we will not have more than one hundred ordinances here retaining the rate of State taxation at three-quarters of one per cent— MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—^The resolution I have offered has been very fully explained to the convention by the delegates from Mobile and Hale. I certainly would not have offered it if it was susceptible of the construction given to it by the gentleman from Jefferson. The resolution as will be seen by reading, very carefully and explicitly saves and excepts the right to change, amend, or alter the constitution in any particular. Any delegate can alter, or amend, or add to the present constitution in any re¬ spect that he sees proper. As we know, it is apparent to every delegate of this convention who has listened to these ordinances which have been read for the past week, that a large number of them have been simply repetitions of the present constitution. The purpose of this resolution was to prevent this unnecessary con¬ sumption of the time of the convention. The purpose of this reso¬ lution was to offer to the convention a basis for action, to that it would be understood that every provision of the present constitu¬ tion was a law until it was changed, altered or amended by this convention. MR. LONG (Walker)—Would not the adoption of that reso¬ lution have the effect of disfranchising the members of this con¬ vention? (Laughter.) MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—It would not have any such effect. Any member of this convention could offer any resolution or ordinance that he saw proper. If he desires, as the gentleman from Talladega has suggested, to repeat word for word the lan¬ guage of the present constitution, why there could be no objection, except on the ground of bad taste. In South Carolina and in other States where recent constitutions have been framed, this is the plan that was adopted, MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert) — Several of the members would like to hear the resolution read which was offered by the gentleman from Lauderdale. The resolution was read again. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—As I was proceeding to ob¬ serve—in South Carolina, and other States where conventions have recently been held, the proceedings of those bodies will show that a vast amount of time has been saved by obviating the neces¬ sity of repeating in the resolutions and ordinances which have been adopted, the provisions of the constitutions of those States. For instance in South Carolina, the amendments have been made simply as suggested by the gentleman from Jefferson, by striking out, or by adding certain words, or expressions, in certain sections 268 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of the constitution, but we have for the pa,st few days' sat here and listened to the reading of the constitution of Alabama, section by section, and clause after clause, without a single change being made. Now the act, under which this constitution was called- MR. WALKER—^Am I correct in understanding that the pur¬ pose of the Rules Committee is simply for the purpose of getting rid of the difficulty and waste of time in the introduction of repe¬ titions of the present constitution. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Certainly, that is the purpose. MR. WALKER—Well, I desire to ask the further question, if that cannot be accomplished by some such rule as this,—that the Convention will not receive or consider ordinances or propo¬ sitions merely repeating articles, sections or provisions of the president Constitution, without going further and adopting the anomalous parliamentary proceedings of adopting provisions be¬ fore they have been revised, and of leaving the revision and amend¬ ments subsequently to be made. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I understand that is accom¬ plished by the resolution which the Committee on Rules has re¬ ported. I do not think it anomalous. MR. WALKER—My question is, is it necessary to accom¬ plish that object to go through the form of adopting the Constitu¬ tion as a whole before it has been revised and amended, as we are directed by the people to do. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—We adopt it subject to such amendments and alterations as this Convention may see fit to make. We do not adopt it as the Constitution, but adopt it as stated subject to any changes or alterations or amendments that we desire to make. MR. DUKE—Under the call for this Convention, and the act calling it, isn’t it to revise and amend the present Constitution, and does not the present Constitution, in fact, hold good as it stands, and if that is so, what is the necessity of your rule ? MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—If that is so, I would like to know what is the objection to it. MR. DUKE—Simply because it is passing a rule allowing us to do something that we have a right to do. MR. O’NEAL—The purpose of the resolution was to call the attention of the Convention to the fact that it was unnecessary to introduce any article or section of the present Constitution for adoption. MR. DUKE—Then I ask the gentleman what is the use of calling the attention of the Convention to something that the Convention is presumed to know. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 269 MR. O’NEAL—^Well, the action of certain members of the Convention, in sending* up ordinance after ordinance, repeatingf the provisions of the present Constitution, seems to indicate that some members do not recognize that such is the lavv^, MR. DUKE—Then I ask the gentleman if we are responsible for their ignorance? MR. REESE—I desire to ask the President of this Conven¬ tion that in the event of the adoption of the resolution reported by the Committee on Rules, whether any amendment or substitution by striking out, or otherwise, can be passed by a mere majority vote, or do the rules of this body require any other vote than a majority vote. THE PRESIDENT—You ask that question of the gentleman from Lauderdale. The question was repeated. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Not at all. A majority can act in the matter. MR. BLACKWELL—Mr. President, I desire to ask a ques¬ tion. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Let me answer the questions that have already been been asked before answering you. MR. PILLANS (Mobile)—Mr. President, will not the object of the Committee on Rules be reached b}^ some such resolution as this: '‘That it is the sense of this Convention that all ordinances hereafter offered, shall be confined to statement of new matter offered without unnecessary repetition of the existing Constitution.” MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—That is practically the same thing. I am willing to accept that as a substitute. Now, Mr. President, a gentleman asked me a question a few minutes ago, as to whether the present Constitution was not the Constitution of the State that bound us. The act says, "that said Convention shall continue in session until it shall, by careful re¬ vision and amendment of the present Constitution, frame and adopt a revised Constitution of the State.” The act is based upon the idea that the present Constitution is a law, which remains in force until we revise and amend it. It does not authorize us to make an entirely new Constitution, but directs us to revise and amend the present Constitution. Now, I am of the opinion that we have the power, being called here, to amend and change the Constitution, to make an entirely new Constitution in every respect if we see proper. There cannot be any question as to that proposition. Now the substitute offered by the gentleman from Mobile covers substantially the resolution 270 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS as offered by myself, but if in his opinion, or in the opinion of any other gentleman, it makes our purpose more clear or more explicit, I am willing to accept it. MR. WHITE—You accept that—the resolution offered by the delegate from Mobile? MR. O'NEAL—Yes sir, I accept it. MR, WHITE—That's all right. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I withdraw the substitute proposed by myself, with the permission of the Committee. MR. SOLLIE—I call for the reading of the resolution offered by Mr. Pillans. The resolution was again read. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—The Rules Committee accepts the amendment. ,MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—On the substitute I will call for the/previous question. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move the adoption of the substi¬ tute and the report of the Committee, subject to that change. THE PRESIDENT—The Committee on Rules, as I under¬ stand it, accepts the substitute offered by the gentleman from Mo¬ bile, Mr. Pillans, and the question will be on the adoption of the resolution. MR. deGRAFFENREID—And of the report of the Commit¬ tee subject to that change. MR. ASHCRAFT—The resolution comprehends only the idea of amendments to articles of the present Constitution, I have not the proceedings of the Mississippi Convention at hand but I know that that Convention adopted a rule which provided that all ordinances having for their purpose simply the re-enactment of some article or section in the existing Constitution, should simply state the subject matter in the headings and then simply a refer¬ ence to the article or section by number. Now, if that idea were added to the suggestion of the gentleman from Mobile we would have a complete proposition and I think it would be better since we are acting under rules, for this matter to be recommitted to the Committee on Rules so that they could properly draft a rule, clear and distinct, and expressing the ideas of the Convention as now explained and I, therefore, move that this resolution and sub¬ stitute be recommitted to the Committee on Rules. MR. WHITE—I make the point of order that the original resolution is not before the house. It has been withdrawn. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 271 THE PRESIDENT—The point is well taken. The only reso¬ lution before the house is the resolution of the gfentleman from Mobile (Mr. Pillans) which was accepted by the Chairman of the Committee on Rules. MR. WILLETT—What is the question before the House? The president—T he question is on the motion to re¬ commit. A motion was made to indefinitely postpone the matter. THE PRESIDENT—That will be out of order because the motion to recommit has precedence of the motion to indefinitely postpone. MR. OATES—I wish to suggest a point of order. It is sug¬ gested that if recommitted, the resolution would not go to the Committee because the Committee has accepted a substitute. Once a report is made and in the possession of the body under considera¬ tion, the Committee has not the right to accept a substitute and thereby kill the original proposition. That is for the body itself, and, therefore, the motion to recommit would take all of it back. THE PRESIDENT—If objection were made they could not accept the substitute. MR. WHITE—I make the further point of order that it is too late after the Convention has already accepted the proposition of the gentleman from Lauderdale to withdraw it. Then is the time the point of order should be made. The PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, the point of order is well taken. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—The Committee on Rules unless some member objects can accept any substitute and it then be¬ comes part of the report of the Committee and I now move that the report of the Committee on Rules be adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to re¬ commit to the Committee on Rules the report as modified by the amendment suggested by the gentleman from Mobile (Mr. Pillans). A vote being taken on a division that part of the Committee’s report was recommitted to the Committee on Rules. MR. O’NEAL—I move the adoption of the remainder of the Committee’s report. MR. JONES (Wilcox)—I have a resolution which I desire to have read and I move to suspend the rules for that purpose. THE PRESIDENT—That would not be in order at this time. MR. JONES (Wilcox)—It pertains to this matter. 272 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolution No. 85, by Mr. Jones of Wilcox. Resolved, That it is the sense of this Convention that when¬ ever an ordinance is introduced by a member of this Convention merely to add to, amend or alter one or more sections of any article of the present Constitution that only the section or sections so added to, amended or altered be embraced in such ordinance, and that the whole article be not set out in such ordinance. Referred to Committee on Rules. A vote bein^ taken the remainder of the report of the Com¬ mittee on Rules was adopted. MR. LONG—I was absent when my name was called and I ask the privileg-e to now introduce a resolution. THE PRESIDENT—Is there objection? There was no objection and resolution No. 86 by Mr. Long (Walker), was read as follows; Whereas, a resolution making an appropriation from the State Treasury of $70 a da}" for stenographic report of the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention was passed by this body without an a3"e and nay vote, and Whereas, There are grave doubts as to the legality of such a proceedings, and Whereas, the stenographic report as published show many errors, therefore, be it resolved. That the President of this Convention be, and he is, hereby requested to immediately cancel the contract for stenographic report after paying all the expenses by the State, connected there¬ with to the date of cancellation. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. LONG (Walker)—I move that that be now taken from the Committee on Rules and placed on its passage and on that I call for the ayes and nays. THPv PRESIDENT—Do you call for a suspension of the rules? MR. LONG (Walker)—No, sir; it does not require a suspen¬ sion of the rules to take any resolution from a committee and place it before the house. THE PRESIDENT—What is your motion? MR. LONG (Walker)—I move we take that resolution from the Committee on Rules and place it on its passage. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 273 MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I make the point or order that that contains two propositions, to take it from the committee and place it on its passage. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would rule that the effect of the motion of the gentleman would be to suspend the rules. The regular order would be that it be referred to a committee when read and if that order is to be changed, it can only be done by a suspension of the rules. MR. LONG (Walker)—Under the rules adopted by the con¬ vention a majority of the delegates, 78, or a fraction over 77 can take any re.solution or ordinance from any committee and place it before the Committee of the Whole of this house. That is the plain rule. THE PRESIDENT—That can undoubtedly be done. Un¬ doubtedly any paper can be taken from any committee on motion when it is in order to make the motion when it comes up in the regular order, but that resolution has been referred and it seems to me the regular order now is a continuance of the roll for reso¬ lutions, etc. MR. LONG (Walker)—Then I give notice upon Monday next I shall ask for the Committee on Rules to report that resolution. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will be in order at that time. MR. MACDONALD—I am requested to ask leave of absence for today, for Mr. Jones of Montgomery. The leave was granted. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—This morning I asked leave of ab¬ sence for Monday. Since then I have received a letter from my daughter saying that my wife is seriously ill and I shall be com¬ pelled to ask for indefinite leave. The leave was granted. Ordinance No. 171 by Mr. Smith (Autauga) was read as follows: Ordinance No. 171, by Mr. M. M. Smith (Autauga.) To fix the salary of Governor. Be it ordained. That the General Assembly shall have power from time to time to fix the salary of the Governor, Provided, that said salary shall never be less than $4,000 after the time of the present incumbent has expired and the salary of no Governor shall be increased or diminished during his term or after his elec¬ tion. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. 274 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 172, by Mr. M. M. Smith (Autaupfa.) To amend Section 7 of Article X of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Exemptions. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, That Section 7 of Article X of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: The right of exemptions hereinbefore secured may be waived by an instrument in writing and when such waiver relates to real¬ ty, the instrument must be signed by both the husband and the wife and attested by one witness; and the General Assembly shall not, in any manner, enact that any part of the exemptions as to personal property shall be exempt from the payment of a debt as to which a waiver has been made. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. Ordinance No. 173, b}^ Mr. M. M. Smith (Autauga.) To exempt cotton mills from taxation. Be it ordained bj" the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly of Alabama shall be au¬ thorized to exempt from taxation, State, county and municipal, for a period of ten years, all corporations and enterprises for the exclusive manufacture of cottorl. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 174, by Mr. Sollie. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That no person shall be eligible to hold any public office or to serve as a juror in Alabama who does not belong to the white race and who is not descended exclusively from the white race and who is not at the time of his election or appointment to such office and has not been for at least one year immediately prior thereto a citizen of the United States and of Alabama. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. Ordinance No. 175 by same: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 38 of Article I. of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be and the same is hereby amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 38. No educational or property qualifications for suffrage shall be made by law. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 176 by same: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 275 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the ri^ht of suffrage is conferred on the followin^^: persons only: Males 21 years of a^^e or upwards, who are citizens of the United States and Alabama, or have legally declared their purpose to become citizens of the United States, and who have re¬ sided in Alabama at least one year, in the county in which they vote three months, and in the precinct or ward in which they vote thirty days next precedin^r the time when thev vote: who have not been convicted of any crime punishable by death or imprison¬ ment in the penitentiary, or having- been so convicted shall have been legally restored to their political rights and who were en¬ listed soldiers and have served in the land or naval forces, or whose legitimate ancestors or kindred within the fourth degrees of consanguinity were enlisted soldiers and served in the land or naval forces in the war of the Confederacy or some other previous war in which the United States engaged or in the war of the revolution of 1776, or who have become naturalized citizens or whose legiti¬ mate ancestor have become naturalized citizens of the United States under the naturalization laws of the United States since the war of the revolution; and who shall have paid in full all poll taxes legally assessed against them after the adoption of this Con¬ stitution before they offer to vote. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. MR. STUDDARD—I yield my place to Mr. Kyle. Ordinance No. 177, by Mr. Kyle: An ordinance to amend the suffrage clause of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That Article VIII. of the Constitution on Suffrage and Elections be amended so as to provide that all persons entitled to vote under the Constitution and laws of this State, at any of the elections in this State, at the time of the ratification of the amended Constitution shall be entitled to vote under the provisions of the amended Constitution; Provided, that they shall on or before the 1st of January of the year in which they propose to vote, con¬ tribute $3 to the public school fund of the State and pay the same to the registrar at the time they register. It shall be otherwise provided that all young men, citizens of this State, who arrive at the age of 21 years before the 1st of January, 1907, shall be entitled to vote, provided they contribute |3 to the public school fund of this State, to be paid to the registrar each year at the time they register, which shall be before the 1st of January of the year in which they propose to vote. And it shall be further provided that all young men, citizens of this State, who arrive at the age of 21 years after the 1st of January, 1907, shall be allowed to vote, provided they contribute $3 to the public school fund of this State on or before the 1st of January of the year in which they propose 276 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS to vote, and shall pay the said contribution to the registrar at the time they register, and shall be able to read any clause of the amended Constitution, and write their name in a legible hand to the satisfaction of the register. And it shall be further amended so as to provide that all citizens of other States moving into or becoming citizens of this State after this amended Constitution is ratified, as well as all citizens of foreign birth who have become citizens of the United States by compliance with the naturaliza¬ tion laws of the United States, who desire to vote at any election in this State and are not disqualified by Section 3 of Article VIII of the Constitu¬ tion, being of the age of 21 years or over, and having resided in the State twelve months, in the County in which they propose to vote, six months; and in the precinct three months, shall be allowed to vote, provided, they have contributed $3 each year to the public school fund of this State, and pro¬ vided, further, that they can read any clause of the amended ConSititution and can write their names in a legible manner to the satisfaction of the Board of Registration. It shall be further provided that no man shall be allowed to vote at any election in this State who is disqualified under Section 3, Article VIII, of the Constitution, or who is an habitual drunkard or a vagrant; and no man shall be allowed to vote who has not registered before January the first of the year in which he proposes to vote, and has not contributed $3 to the public school fund of the State each year before the first of January of the year in which he proposes to vote, and paid the same to the registrar at the time of registration. It shall also be provided, that the Tax Collector and Tax Assessor and Circuit Clerk of each County in this State, shall constitute a Board of Registration, and shall open books of registration at the court house of each county in this State, on the first of November of each year, and shall keep registration open until the first of January thereafter of each year, and shall register all voters qualified under the terms of these amended provisions to the Constitution, keeping a record of all classified voters registered in a book kept for the purpose, names of all qualified voters to be reported in alphabetical order, showing beat in which each registered voter entitled to vote resides, his age, place of birth, and his race or nationality. This book of registration of legal voters shall be filed with the Probate Judge of each County on or before the fifteenth day of January of each year, and it shall be the duty of the Probate Judge of each County to prepare a list of the qualified voters as shown by the book of registration, for each beat in the County, which the Probate Judge shall cause to be posted at the polling places in the respective beats on the day before any election is to be held. And a copy of such registration list, properly certi¬ fied, shall be furnished the judges of election at each voting place in the County on or before the days of the election. The Registrar shall, on or before the fifteenth day of January of each year pay over to the County Superintendent of Education all moneys re¬ ceived as contributions to the public school funds from parties registering, to be disposed of by the County Superintendent as the law may provide. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 277 The legislature shall have power by law to provide for the carrying out of these amended provisions as to suffrage, and shall provide for such com¬ pensation as will be just and equitable to the Board of Registration and officers of the election. The contribution on the part of the voters shall in nowise interfere with the assessment and collection of one dollar ($1) poll tax for school purposes from every citizen of the State from 21 to 60 years of age inclusive. Referred to Committee on Suffrag’e and Election. Ordinance No. 196, by Mr. Oates: To amend Section 1 of Article XVI of the Constitution by adding thereto a proviso. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : That Section 1 of Article XVI be amended by adding thereto the following proviso, to wit: Provided, That the acceptance of a second office of profit other than those in this section named, shall in fact forfeit and vacate the first office without any legal proceedings to declare the same. Referred to Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. Ordinance No. 178 by Mr. Tayloe: An ordinance. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That The appropriations made by the General Assembly of Ala¬ bama for any one fiscal year shall not exceed the sum collected from all sources by taxation in the fiscal year preceding the meet¬ ing of the General Assembly making the appropriations. All ap¬ propriations shall be paid in the order of time in which they are passed, to the extent of the collections aforesaid, and all that are in excess of such collections shall be void. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 179, by Mr. Tayloe (Perry.) Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled. The committee of each house of the General Assembly whose duty it is to raise revenues for the purpose of paying the expenses of the State Government shall also have control of the appropria¬ tions of such revenues, subject, however to the control of the House by which the committee is raised. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. 278 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 180, by Mr. deGraffenreid. An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to amend Section 10 of Article VI of the Constitution of the State of Alabama. Be it ordained that Section 10 of Article VI of the Constitution of 1875 be amended so as to read as follows: From and after the adoption of this constitution the Judges of the Supreme Court shall receive $5,000 and the Judges of the Circuit Courts and Courts of Chancery shall receive $3,000, per annum for their services, payable monthly; but they shall receive no fees or perquisites, nor hold any office (except judicial offices) of profit or trust under this State or the United States, or any other power, during the term for which they have been elected. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. MR. GREER (Perry)—I desire to ask leave of absence for Monday and I would like Mr. Long to defer the matter of the stenographic report until Tuesday. The leave was granted. Ordinance No. 181. An ordinance to amend Section 27 of Article IV of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama, relating to signing of bills and joint resolu¬ tions by the presiding officer of each house. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention assembled: That Section 27 of Article IV of the Constitution of Alal)ama be amended so as to read as follows: '‘The presiding officer of each house shall in the presence of the house over which he presides, sign all bills and joint resolu¬ tions passed by the General Assembly after the bills sfiall have been publicly read at length immediately before the signing, and the fact of read and signing shall be enfi^red on the journal.'’ Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution 87, by Mr. Vaughan: Resolved, That no delegate shall introduce a resolution or ordinance until his name is reached on the roll call except under a suspension of the rules. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. WADDELL—By request I offer an ordinance. Ordinance No. 182, by Mr. Boone. An ordinance to add an additional section to the Declaration of Rights. Police power of the State. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 279 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the exercise of the police power of the State shall never be abridged, or so construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe the equal rights of individuals, or the general well being of the State. See 121 Missouri Reports, page 317. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights, Ordinance No. 183, by Mr. Boone (Mobile) : An ordinance to regulate the organization and classification of cities and towns. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly shall provide, by general laws, for the organization and classification of cities and towns. The number of such classes shall not exceed four; and the power of each class shall be defined by general laws, so that all such municipal corporations of the same class shall i)ossess the same powers and be subject to the same restrictions. The General As¬ sembly shall also make provisions, by general laws, whereby any city, town or village, existing by virtue of any special charter or local law, may elect to become subject to, and be governed by, the general laws relating to such corporations. Sec. 2. Any city having a population of more than twenty thousand inhabitants may frame a charter for its own govern¬ ment, consistent with and subject to the Constitution and laws of this State, b}" causing a board of thirteen freeholders, who shall have been for at least five years qualified voters thereof, to be elected by the qualified voters of such city at any general or special election; which board shall, within ninety days after such elec¬ tion, return to the Chief Magistrate of such city a draft of such charter, signed by the members of such board or a majority of them. Within thirty days thereafter, such proposed charter shall be submitted to the qualified voters of such city at a general or special election, and if four-sevenths of such qualified voters vot¬ ing thereat, shall ratify the same, it shall, at the end of thirty days thereafter, become the charter of such city, and supercede any existing charter, and all special acts of the General Assembly relating to such city, other than law securing and enforcing the payment of the debts of any such city shall supercede any existing charter and amendments thereof. A du])licate certificate shall be made, setting forth the charter proposed and its ratification, which shall be signed by the Chief Magistrate of such city and authenticated by its corporate seal. One of such certificates shall be deposited in the office of the Secretary of State, and the other, after being recorded in the office of the Judge of Probate for the county in which such city lies, shall be deposited among the ar¬ chives of such city, and all courts shall take judicial notice there¬ of. Such charter, so adopted, may be amended by a proposal 280 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS therefor published for at least thirty days in two newspapers of said city, and accepted by three-fifths of the qualified voters of such city, voting at a general or special election, and not other¬ wise; but such charter shall always be in harmony with a subject to the Constitution and laws of the State. Referred to Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 184, by Mr. Walker: To fix the term of office of the Chief Justice and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court. Be it ordained, That the Chief Justice and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court shall be chosen at an election held at the time and places fixed by law for the election of members of the House of Representatives of the Congress of the United States of America, and shall hold office for the term of ten years, and until their successors are elected or appointed and qualified; pro¬ vided, that the successor of at least one member of the Supreme Court elected at such election in the year 1904 shall be elected in each of the years 1906, 1908, 1910, 1912 and 1914. The Chief Justice and Associate Justices of said court elected in the year 1904 shall draw or cast lots among themselves to determine which of them shall hold office for the terms ending respectively, in the years 1906, 1908, 1910, 1912 and 1914, and until their respective successors are elected or appointed and qualified; the result of such determination to be certified to the Governor by such Chief Justice and Associate Justices, or a majority of them, prior to the first day of January, 1905, and also to be entered upon the minutes of the court. In the event of the failure of the said Chief Justice and Associate Justices to make and certify such determination, the Governor shall designate the terms for which they shall respec¬ tively hold office, as above provided, and shall issue his proclama¬ tion accordingly. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 185, by Mr. Walker: An ordinance to amend Section 17 of Article VI of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained. That Section 17 of Article VI of the Consti¬ tution be amended so as to read as follows: Vacancies in the office of any of the judges or chancellors of this State shall be filled by appointment by the Governor; such appointee shall hold his office until the next general election held at least six months after the vacancy occurred, and until his suc¬ cessor is elected or appointed and qualified; and the successor chosen at such election shall hold office for the unexpired term and until his successor is elected or appointed and qualified. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 281 MR. WATTS — Mr. Reynolds (Chilton) is entitled to my place. Resolution No. 88, by Mr. Reynolds (Chilton): Be it resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that all County officers within this State shall be elected for a term of four years and that they be inelig-ible to any office in the County within four years after the expiration of their term of office. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Resolution No. 89, by same: Be it resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that a stock law shall not be passed for any community within this State until such question shall have been submitted in an election for that purpose alone, to the people of that com¬ munity and a majority of the qualified voters shall have, at said election, approved of the passage of such stock law. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution No. 90, by same: Be it resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that No person shall be permitted to marry within five years after obtaining a divorce. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 186, by Mr. Weakly: An ordinance to provide for the organization, classification and government of villages, towns and cities in Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that the villages, towns and cities of this State for the purpose of their organization and government shall be divided into five classes. The organization and powers of each class shall be defined and provided for by general laws so that all municipalities of the same class shall possess the same powers and be subject to the same restrictions. To the first class shall belong cities with a population of fifty thousand or more; to the second class shall belong cities with a population of less than fifty thousand and more than twenty-five thousand, to the third class cities with a population of less than twenty-five thousand and more than ten thousand; to the fourth class shall belong towns and cities with less than ten thousand and more than one thousand, and to the fifth class shall belong villages with less than one thousand popu¬ lation. 282 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The General Assembly shall assig’n the villagfes, towns and cities of the State to the class to which they respectively belong^, and change assignments made as the population of said villages, towns and cities increase or decrease, and in the absence of other satisfactory information as to their population the General As¬ sembly shall be governed by the last preceding Federal census, pro¬ vided, however, that any village, town or city in Alabama may in the year 1905 and every ten years thereafter cause a census of all the inhabitants of such village, town or city to be taken, and the General Assembly may change the classification of such town or city according to the result of such census. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 187, by Mr. Weakly (Lauderdale) : An ordinance to permit municipalities in the State of Alabama having more than two thousand inhabit'^ts to establish municipal courts. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that all cities and towns having a population of two thousand or more may establish minor courts, which shall have exclusive jurisdiction, civil and criminal, in the first instance for the enforcement of city ordinances and of penalties for the viola¬ tion thereof. Such courts shall have such other or further juris¬ diction as may be conferred by the legislature, but they shall not have equity jurisdiction, nor any greater jurisdiction in other re¬ spects than is now conferred on justices of the peace. No one shall be eligible to appointment as judge of such court unless he shall be learned in the law and shall have been duly authorized to practice law in the courts of this State for three years next before the date of his appointment. Such judge shall be subject to the same liabilities, and their judgment and pro¬ ceedings may be reviewed in the same manner and to the same extent as is now or may be provided by law in the case of justices of the peace. The judges of such courts shall be appointed by the Mayor, and their term of office shall expire with that of the Mayor ap¬ pointing them. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 188, by same: To limit the indebtedness of the municipal corporations of this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That no village, town or city shall hereafter become indebted for any purpose or in any manner to an amount which, including existing indebtedness, shall exceed 7 per cent, of the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 283 assessed valuation of the real and personal property within said city subject to taxation, as shown by the last precedinpr assessment for State and county purposes; provided, however, that in de¬ termining^ the limitation of the power of such villagfe, town or city to incur indebtedness there shall not be included the following' classes of indebtedness, to wit: (a) Notes, certificates of indebtedness, revenue bonds issued in anticipation of the collection of taxes, unless the same be not paid within two years from the date of their issue; and all notes, certificates of indebtedness and revenue bonds shall be provided for and payable from taxes levied for the year in which they are issued, and shall never exceed the amount of such taxes. (b) Bonds issued for the purpose of purchasing or otherwise providing for the supply of water or for the construction or instal¬ lation of sanitary sewers. (c) Debts created for the preservation of the public health or the public peace. Second—No city, town or village whose present indebtedness exceeds the limitations herein imposed shall be allowed to become indebted to any further amount, until such indebtedness shall be reduced within such limit; provided, however, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any municipality from issuing bonds in removal of obligations already created and existing. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Resolution No. 91, by Mr. Weatherly: Whereas, The General Assembly of Alabama did provide for the holding of this Convention by an act entitled “An Act to pro¬ vide for holding a Convention to revise and amend the Constitu¬ tion of this State,” approved December 11th, 1900; and. Whereas, In and by Sections 15 to 21 1-2, inclusive, of said act it was provided that certain matters should and that certain matters should not be incorporated in any Constitution which this Convention might adopt, and. Whereas, The question of whether or not this Convtntion should be held was duly submitted to the qualified electors of the State under and in accordance with said act, by whom the holding of this Convention was duly approved and this Convention has been duly convened and become organized in accordance with the requirements of said act, now therefore be it Resolved, That the Judiciary Committee of this Convention be and it is hereby instructed to report to this Convention at an early day to what extent, if any, this Convention is bound by the requirements contained in said Sections 15 to 21 1-2 of said act considered as a merely legislative enactment, independently of the 284 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS vote of the qualified electors authorizing the holding of this con¬ vention, and also in connection with, and as affected by such vote. Note—See Jameson on Constitutional Conventions. Mr. White yielded his turn to Mr. Cornwall. Ordinance No. 189, by Mr. Cornwall: Providing for the levying and collecting municipal taxes. No city or town or other municipal corporation other than is provided for in this article, shall levy or collect a larger or great¬ er rate of taxation in any one year on the property thereof than one-half of 1 per centum of the value of such property, provided that cities having 5,000 or more inhabitants may levy and collect an additional tax of one-half of 1 per centum on the value of such property in addition to the tax of one-half of 1 per centum here¬ inbefore allowed to be levied and collected. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. MR. GRANT—I ask leave of absence for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. I have received news that makes it necessary. The leave was granted. Ordinance No. 190, by Mr. Cornwall: To amend Article II. of Section 7 of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. That Section 7 of Article II. of the Constitution of Alabama be amended by adding thereto the following: And providing, further, that this Secton shall not apply to the city of Bessemer, which city may levy and collect a tax of one-half of 1 per centum in addition to a tax of one-half of 1 per centum hereinabove allowed to be levied and collected. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 191, by Mr. Cornwell: An Ordinance to amend, alter and change. Article II, Sections 1 and 2 of the Constitution of Alabama, 1875, by the substitution therefor of the following article, to wit: State and County Boundaries. Section 1. The boundaries of this State are established and declared to be as follows: That is to say, beginning at a point where the 31st degree of north latitude crosses the Perdido river thence east to the western boundary line of the State of Georgia; thence along said line to the southern boundary line of the State of Tennessee, crossing the Tennessee River and into the second intersection of said river by said line; thence up said river to the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 285 mouth of Bigf Bear Creek; thence by a direct line to the north¬ west corner of Washington County in this State as originally formed; thence southerly along the line of the State of Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico: thence eastwardly, including all islands within six leagues of the shore, to the Perdido River; thence up the said river to the point of beginning. Sec. 2. Until changed by the General Assembly as allowed by this constitution, the boundaries of the several counties of this State as heretofore established by law, are hereby ratified and con¬ firmed, and no new county hereafter formed shall contain less than 15,000 inhabitants; nor shall it have less assessed taxable property than $2,000,000, as shown by the last tax returns; nor shall it con¬ tain less area than 400 square miles; and it shall be entitled to one or more representatives under the ratio of representation exist¬ ing at the time of its formation. Sec. 3. The General Assembly may establish new counties in the following manner: Whenever one-third of the qualified electors within the area of each section of an old county proposed to be cut off to form a new county shall petition the Governor for the erection of a new county, setting forth the boundaries and showing compliance with the requirements of this article, the Gov¬ ernor shall order an election, within a reasonable time thereafter, by the qualified electors within the proposed area, at which elec¬ tion they shall vote “yes” or “no” upon the question of creating said new county; and at the same election, the question of a name and a county seat for such county shall be submitted to the elec¬ tors. Sec. 4. If two-thirds of the qualified electors voting at such election shall vote “yes” upon such questions then the General Assembly at the next session shall establish such new county; Provided, no section of the county proposed to be dismembered shall be thus cut off without consent by a two-thirds vote of those vot¬ ing in such section; and no county shall be formed without com¬ plying with all the conditions imposed in this article. An election upon the question of forming the same proposed new county shall not be held oftener than once in four years. Sec. 5. No old county shall be reduced to less area than 500 square miles, and to less assessed taxable property than $2,000,000 nor to a smaller population than 15,000 inhabitants. Sec. 6. In the formation of new counties no old county shall be cut within seven miles of its court house building. Sec. 7. All new counties hereafter formed shall bear a just apportionment of the valid indebtedness of the bid county or coun¬ ties from which they have been formed, taking into consideration the objects secured by such indebtedness and their resultant bene¬ fits and value to the old county, and to the section cut off from said old county to form part of the new county. 286 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 8. The General Assembly shall have power to alter coun¬ ty lines at any time; Provided, that before any existing county line is altered, the question shall first be submitted to the qualified electors of the territory proposed to be taken from one county and given to another, and shall have received two-thirds of the votes cast; Provided further, that the change shall not reduce the county from which the territory is taken below the limits pre¬ scribed in Sections 3, 4, and 5 of this article; Provided, that the proper proportion of the existing county indebtedness of the sec¬ tion so transferred shall be assumed by the county to which the territory is transferred. Sec. 9. No county seat shall be removed except by a vote of two-thirds of the qualified electors of said county voting in an election held for that purpose, but said election shall not be held in any county oftener than once in four years. Sec. 10. Each county shall constitute one election district, and shall be a body politic and corporate. Sec. 11. The General Assembly may provide for the consoli¬ dation of two or more existing counties, if a majority of the quali¬ fied electors of such counties voting at an election held for that purpose shall vote separately therefor, but such election shall not be held oftener than once in four years in the same counties. Sec. 12. Each of the several beats of this State, with names and boundaries as now established by law, shall constitute a body politic and corporate but this shall not prevent the General As¬ sembly from organizing other beats or changing the boundaries of those already established; and the General Assembly may pro¬ vide such system of beat government as it shall think proper in any and all counties, and may make special provisions for munici¬ pal government and for the protection of chartered rights and powers of municipalities. Sec. 13. The General Assembly may at any time arrange the various counties into judicial circuits, and into Congressional di.s- tricts, as it may deem wise and proper, and may establish or alter the location of voting precincts in any county. Sec. 14. Hereafter no county lines shall be so established as to pass through any incorporated city or town of this State. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 192, by Mr. Whiteside: An ordinance to repeal Section 38 of Article I of the Constitu¬ tion. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assem¬ bled, That Section 38 of Article I of the present Constitution be and the same is hereby repealed. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 287 Referred to Committee on Suffrag^e and Election. Ordinance No. 193, by Mr. Whiteside: An ordinance to amended Section 56 of Article IV of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled. That Section 56 of Article IV of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follow^s: Section 56. There can be no law of this State impairing the oblig-ation of contracts by destroying* or impairing the remedy for their enforcement; and the General Assembly shall have no power to make valid any contract which was invalid at the time of its execution, except with the consent of all the parties to said con¬ tract, and the General Assembly shall have no power to revive any right or remedy which may have become barred by lapse of time or by any statute of this State or to take away any right of action which may accrue to any party in this State, after such has been commenced to enforce such right of action. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 194, by Mr. Willett: An ordinance to require all officers authorized by this Consti¬ tution to be elected by the people of the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That unless otherwise provided in this Constitution, all the officers created by this Constitutional Convention shall be elected by the people, and the Legislature of the State of Alabama are required to give force and effect to this provision of the Con¬ stitution. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 195 by Mr. Willett: An ordinance to make the directors of insolvent corporations trustees of the assets of said corporation, for the benefit of all the creditors. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That the Assets of insolvent corporations shall be in the hands of the directors of said corporation a trust fund, for the benefit of all of the creditors of said corporation. Referred to Committee on Corporation. Mr. Williams (Barbour) yielded his turn to Mr. Oates (Mont¬ gomery.) Ordinance No. 196 by Mr. Oates: 288 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS To amend Section I. of Article XVI. of the Constitution by- adding thereto a proviso. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article XVI. be amended by adding thereto the following proviso, to wit: Provided, that the acceptance of a second office of profit other than those in this Section named, shall in fact forfeit and vacate the first office without any legal proceedings to declare the same. Referred to Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. Ordinance No. 197, by same: An ordinance to amend Section 6 of Article V. of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 6 of Article V. be amended so as to read as follows, to wit: The Governor shall be at least thirty years of age when elect¬ ed, and shall have been a citizen of the United States ten years, and a resident citizen of this State seven years next before the day of his election and his term of office shall be four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified, he shall not be eligible to succeed himself, in said office, nor to any other office during the term for which he is elected nor until one year after the expiration thereof and he shall receive for his sA'vices as Governor a salary of $5,000 per annum. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Mr. Williams (Marengo) yielded his turn to Mr. Espy. Ordinance No. 198, by Mr. Espy: An ordinance to authorize railroad companies to exercise the powers of eminent domain. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That railroad companies shall have the power and are hereby authorized to condemn rights of way over the lands of per¬ sons and corporations from any point on their roadbeds to any manufacturing establishment, or plant, or mill, or gin—^provided said manufacturing establishment, or plant, or mill, or gin, shall not be more than five miles distant from said road bed; provided further, that due compensation shall first be made to the owner of said lands. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 289 Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 199, by same: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That a married woman shall have full power to contract as if she were a femmesole, except that she shall not directly or indirectly become surety for her husband, nor sell, nor convey her property in payment of his debts. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 200, by same; An ordinance to regulate the establishment of'stock law dis¬ trict. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly, Boards of Revenue nor Courts of County Commissioners shall not establish any district in which live stock shall be prohibited from running at large unless a majority of the legal voters residing in the district propose to be established so desire; and the desire of said voters shall be as¬ certained by an election to be held in a manner prescribed by law. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution No. 92, by Mr. Espy of Henry. Be it resolved, that the CommEtee on Rules fix a time in which ordinances shall be introduced and after the expiration of the time so fixed by said Committee, no ordinance shall be intro¬ duced by any delegate for consideration by this Convention. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 201, by Mr. Williams (Elmore): To prohibit any change in the Preamble and Article 1, (Decla¬ ration of Rights) in the present Constitution of the State of Ala¬ bama, exceptions: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that there shall be no change made whatever in the pre¬ amble and Article 1, Declaration of Rights, in this Constitution different from that in the Constitution of 1875, except so far as to be in harmony and consistency with the Constitution framed by this Convention. . Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Resolution No. 93, by Mr. Williams (Elmore) : Resolution, To provide for a Committee on Pensions for Con¬ federate soldiers: Be it resolved, that the Chairman of the Rules Committee be authorized to appoint a committee of nine of which 290 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Governor William C. Oates shall be Chairman, said Committee to be styled and known as “Pensions Committee for Confederate Soldiers.” Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 94, by same: Resolution, for the appointment of the followingf standings committees: Be it resolved, that the Chairman of the Rules Committee appoint three standing: committees of nine members each, to wit: A committee on Federal Relations, a Committee on Agfriculture, Commerce and Industry, and a Committee on Temperance. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 202, by Mr. Wilson (Clarke) : To amend Section 9 of Article VI of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 9 of Article VI of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 9. There is hereby established in every county in this State, a court of probate, with general and exclusive jurisdiction of the granting: of letters testamentary and of administration, and of the final settlement of all estates of decedents, and for orphans’ business. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Resolution No. 95, by Mr. Wilson (Clarke) : Resolved, That the Secretary of the Convention be and he is hereby, authorized to purchase such blank books, stationery and other necessary supplies as may be necessary for the use of his office. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 96, by Mr. Wilson (Clarke) : Resolved, That the clerks of the several committees of this convention shall, when not engaged in attendance upon the meet¬ ings of their several committees, remain at some convenient place, to be designated by the chairman of the committee, which said clerk serves, at all reasonable hours; and such clerk shall perform such clerical work as may be required of him by the several mem¬ bers of the Committee of which they are clerks. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 203, by Mr. Wilson (Washington): CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 291 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 7 of Article V of the present Constitution be, and the same is hereby, abolished, and the following inserted in lieu thereof: No person who has been elected Governor of this State shall, during the term for which he was elected and for twelve months next succeedinjj;- the expiration thereof, hold any other office, civil, or military, either under this State, or any other State or Gov¬ ernment; and after the first day of December of 1904 of the United States, except as otherwise provided for in this Constitution. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 204, by Mr. Wilson (Washington) : Amendment to Section 25 of Article VI. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 25 of Article VI of the present Constitution be, and the same is hereby amended by adding the following: That each solicitor shall desire during his term of office, and for twelve months next preceding his election, in a county in which the court of which he is solicitor tries and disposes of indictments presented by the grand jury of the county. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 205, by Mr. Wilson (Washington). Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in Convention as¬ sembled, that all State and County officers shall be elected, at the same time and places, by a direct vote of the qualified electors of the State. Vacancies created by death, resignation, impeach¬ ment, removal from the State or County, or other disability, may be filled by appointment. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Resolution No. 97, by Mr. Winn: A resolution relating to the form of ordinances submitted. Be it resolved by this Convention that all ordinances shall re¬ late to but a single article or subject matter in order to the refer¬ ence of the same to the appropriate committee. Second. Be it further resolved, That no ordinance offending this rule shall be received or referred. Referred to Committee on Rules. Mr. Almon yielded to Mr. Heflin of Randolph. 292 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT — The roll call having been completed will not be gone on with until the other order of business is ex¬ hausted. MR. INGE—I ask leave of absence for Monday and Tuesday until 12 o’clock. The leave was granted. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair desires to make a statement to the Convention. MR. LONG (Walker)—At the request of several gentlemen on both sides of the proposition I desire to state that I will not call up the resolution offered by myself to abolish the stenographic report until next Wednesday. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair in ruling on the point of or¬ der made against the motion of the gentleman from Madison ruled that it would not be in order to reconsider the vote whereby this convention decided when it adjourned it would adjourn to meet on Monday. A number of authorities have been examined on this question and the Chair has been unable to find any direct au¬ thority on it in any of the books on parliamentary law that have been accessible, but in the opinion of the Chair it would be in the power of this Convention after it has decided and fixed an hour to which to adjourn to reconsider that action if it sees fit to do so and fix another and a different time and the Chair will reverse its ruling made this morning and recognize the gentleman from Madison. MR, GRAYSON—I have been informed that quite a number of the committees and sub-committees are behind with their work and desire to catch it up and it being very doubtful whether there will be a quorum here tomorrow I withdraw the motion to recon¬ sider. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business is the calling of the standing committees. . The call was started. MR. OATES—I have no idea that any of the standing com¬ mittees are ready to report and I therefore move to dispense with a further call. Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Williams (Elmore), al¬ so to Mr. Greer (Perry), until Tuesday. THE PRESIDENT—The next order is report of special com¬ mittees of which there are none. Unfinished business. The Chair desires to call the attention to the fact that there is a petition or memorial presented to the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 293 Chair from the Federation of Women’s Clubs of Alabama and the Chair desires to know whether the Convention wishes it read. The reading was called for and it was read as follows: Report made May, 1901, at convention in Montevallo, to Ala¬ bama Federation of Women’s Clubs, by Mrs. W. F. Johnston, An¬ niston, Chairman of Committee on Education, Unanimously adopt¬ ed by the Federation: Recognizing- the deplorable necessity for education among the masses of the children of the State, and realizing that this ne¬ cessity can only be met and relieved by the public schools, the Federation of Women’s Clubs of Alabama in convention assem¬ bled do resolve: First—That the Constitutional Convention soon to be as¬ sembled in the city of Montgomery, be earnestly petitioned to de¬ clare in the organic law of the State, that no person shall be eligi¬ ble to the office of State or County Superintendent of Education who is not sufficiently qualified to stand the examination required by law of applicants for certificates as first grade teachers in the public schools of the State. Second—That the said Constitutional Convention be petition¬ ed to take such action as may be necessary to allow municipalities, counties and school districts within counties to secure local taxa¬ tion for public schools Avithin such territory. Third—That the said Constitutional Convention be petitioned for such action as will provide for and require the erection and proper equipment of suitable and comfortable school buildings in every school district in the State, whether districts by special acts of the General Assembly or under the general school law. Fourth—That the said Constitutional Convention be petitioned to take such action as will provide for the maintenance of a public school in each school district and neighborhood in the State for at least five months in every year. Fifth—The said convention be petitioned to take such action as will require every child in the State between the ages of 8 and 16 years to attend upon some school at least three months during each year. Sixth—That these resolutions be neatly printed for presenta¬ tion to members of the Constitutional Convention, and that the members of the Women’s Clubs in Montgomery be appointed a committee to present them. THE PRESIDENT—Quite a number of printed copies of this communication are on the desks and at the service of any dele¬ gate present. 294 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HOWELL —In courtesy to these ladies, I move that that communication be referred to the Committee on Education. On a vote the communication was so referred. MR. WADDELL—Yesterday's stenographic report is dated May 28th. THE PRESIDENT—That is an error which will be corrected. MR. ASHCRAFT—Yesterday at the hour of adjournment there was presented and read a communication from the colored citizens of this State. I move that that memorial be referred to the Committee on Education and to the Committee on Suffrage. The references were made. The hour for adjournment having arrived, the convention ad¬ journed until Monday at 12 o'clock. CORRECTIONS The proceedings of the Eighth Day should be dated May 30th, instead of May 28th. MR. JACKSON (Cleburne)—At the top of third column, eighth days proceedings, where it reads: ''Now, in the language of the distinguished gentleman from Jefferson" should follow “It will give emphasis to the pledges or promises made, to move the suspension of the rules, and put this resolution immediately upon its passage. I move a suspension of the rules and that this resolu¬ tion be put upon its immediate passage." TENTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., June 3, 1901. The Convention was called to order by the President and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Provence, as follows: O God, our Heavenly Father, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, we come to invoke Thy blessing upon the session of this Convention today. We thank Thee that Thou art a God who cares for the interests of His people. We thank Thee that in all the affairs of life we may look to Thee for guidance, health, bless¬ ings and strength. We thank Thee for all the blessings Thou CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 295 hast ^iven to us, that life has been so full of Thy mercy and love, that Thou hast taug^ht us in so many ways that Thou art caring for us and that all thing^s work togfether for ^ood to them that love Thee, and we pray Thee that part of these thing^s may be this session today, that Thy spirit may rei^^^n here, that these Thy servants who come from every quarter of our State to transact business of supreme importance to the interests of rigfhteousness and truth and purity in our government may come realizing the g-reat responsibility resting upon them, realizing- their need of Di¬ vine health and Divine guidance. So may they come looking to Thee for that wisdom that they need. We pray Thee that they may put aside every unworthy motive, everything that would hinder them from doing the right thing and the best thing. So do Thou give them grace and wisdom. Grant that whatever is done may be in accordance with Thy will and for the promotion of Thy glory. We thank Thee for every influence that makes for righteousness, and for that elevation of life of the people of our Commonwealth. We pray Thee to strengthen all these influences and hasten the glad day when Jesus shall reign in every heart. We pray Thy blessing upon every home represented here. Be with those loved ones left behind. May Thy spirit protect and comfort and bless them as it shall protect and comfort and bless those who are here and use us all for Thy glory, and crown our efforts with Thy blessing, we ask in Jesus’ name. Amen. The roll was then called and one hundred and six delegates responded. MR. TAYLOE—I ask for leave of al^sence for Mr. Cunning¬ ham of Jefferson, and Mr. Greer and Mr. Stewart of Perry. THE PRESIDENT—Mr. Greer already has leave of absence until Tuesday. Leave of absence is requested for Mr. Cunning¬ ham of Jefferson, and Mr. Stewart of Perry. Unless there is ob¬ jection the leave will be granted. MR. MERRILL—I ask indefinite leave of absence for Mr. Dent, who is sick. Also leave of absence today and tomorrow for Dr. Winn, on account of the death of a relative. The leave was granted. MR. SOLLIE—I would like to get leave of absence for my¬ self for tomorrow. The leave was granted. MR. FOSTER—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Coleman of Walker for today. The leave was granted. 2% OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. CORNWALL—I desire to ask indefinite leave of ab¬ sence for Mr. O’Neill (Jefferson). The leave was f^ranted. MR. CHAPMAN—I ask leave of absence for the delegfate from Choctaw, Mr. Glover, for today. MR. KIRK—I desire leave of absence for Mr. Spragins of Madison and for Mr. Carmichael of Colbert. The leaves were fjranted. MR. WILLETT—I desire to ask leave of absence for to¬ morrow and next day. MR. EYSTER—I desire leave of absence of Mr. Parker of Cullman, for today. The leave was granted. MR. DAVIS (DeKalb)—I desire leave of absence for Mr. Carden of Cherokee. The leave was granted. MR. HEAD—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Davis of Etowah. The leave was granted. MR. JENKINS—I ask leave of absence for tomorrow and next day. The leave was granted. MR. WEAKLEY—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Fletcher of Madison. The leave was granted. MR. SAMFORD—I desire to ask leave of absence for myself for tomorrow and next day. THE CHAIR—Leave of absence is asked for by Mr. Samford of Pike. The Chair will express the hope that some of the dele¬ gates will remain with us. The leave was granted. MR. HODGES—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Proctor for today. The leave was granted. MR. SANDERS—I desire to ask unanimous consent to strike from the Sixth Section of Ordinance No. 163 the expression, “thqse who deny the existence of the Deity.” That expression was in- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 297 serted in that section by mistake. It commits me to favoring a religious test as a qualification for voting, which I do not favor. It was intended to be inserted in the 11th Section of the ordinance, which prescribes the qualifications for office holders; the idea being that an officer required to take an oath should believe in the existence of the Deity whose name he invokes in the oath of office, but upon reflection and examination, I am of the opinion that the requirement is in the nature of a religious test which is forbidden by Article VI., Section 3 of the Constitution, and I there¬ fore desire unanimous consent to strike the expression out of the ordinance. THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman reduce his propo¬ sition to writing. It will be difficult for the clerks to get it cor¬ rectly, unless it be in writing. The next order of business is the Report of the Committee on the Journal. The report of the committee was made by Mr. Wilson (Clarke), Chairman pro tern. The report being read, was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—Under a resolution adopted by the Con¬ vention on Friday which reads: “Resolved That the reading each day of the Journal of this Convention be dispensed with unless the same is demanded by the Convention,” the chair will direct the Secretary to dispense with the reading of the Journal this morning. MR. REESE—I desire to ask for the reading of a resolution, and I ask the unanimous consent of the Convention that it be adopted. Resolution No. 98, by Mr. Reese: Resolved, That the privileges of the floor of this Convention be and the same are hereby extended to His Excellency, the Hon. Wm. J. Samford, Governor of Alabama. MR. REESE—I move a suspension of the rules, and that the resolution be adopted. Upon a vote the rules were suspended and upon a further vote the resolution was unanimously adopted. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—I desire to be recorded as being present. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state that the gentleman obtained leave of absence. I suppose he wishes it revoked. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—Yes sir. 298 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll for the introduction of ordinances, petitions, etc. MR. PETTUS—The President has kindly yielded his call to me. I desire to offer an ordinance. Ordinance No. 206, by Mr. Pettus: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That there shall be in the several counties of the State, courts of record, styled Courts of County Commissioners, to be composed of such members and elected in such manner and for such period, as is, or may be, provided by law. Be it further ordained That the Legfislature shall, by general laws, confer upon the Courts of County Commissioners of the several counties of the State, such further powers of local leg^isla- tion and administration as the Legislature may from time to time deem expedient. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. MR. ALLEN—I have given my call to the gentleman from Randolph, Mr. Heflin. Resolution No. 99, by Mr. Heflin (Randolph.) Resolved, That the Committee on Executive Department are hereby instructed to embody in its report a provision fixing the salary of the Governor of this State at a sum not less than $5,000 per annum, said sum not to be increased nor diminished during his term of office. The resolution was referred to the Committee on Executive Department. MR. BAREFIELD—I yield my turn to the gentleman from Dale, Mr. Sollie. Ordinance No. 207, by Mr. Sollie: An ordinance adding Section 29 to Article VI of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, that Section 39 be and the same hereby is added to Ar¬ ticle VI of the Constitution of Alabama, so as to read as follows; Sec. 39. There shall be appointed by the Governor an official stenographer for each Judicial Circuit in Alabama, whose term of office shall be the same as that of judges of the Circuit Court, and whose duties, compensation and removal from office shall be fixed and provided for by the General Assembly. Referred to the Committee on Judiciary. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 29-) THE PRESIDENT—Section 29 is probably meant, as there are only twenty-eight sections to the article in the Constitution. MR. SOELIE—Yes, it should be changed. MR. BEVERS—Mr. President, I yield my call to Mr. Jenkins of Wilcox. Ordinance No. 208, by Mr. Jenkins (Wilcox.) To amend Section 1 of Article VIII of the Constitution, per¬ taining to suffrage and qualifications of voters. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article VIII of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: Every male citizen of the United States and every male person of foreign birth, who may have legally declared his in¬ tention to become a citizen of the United States before he offers to vote, who is 21 years old or upwards, possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people, except as hereinafter provided: First—He shall be able to read any section of the Constitution of this State, or he shall be a foreign born male person residing here who cannot read the English language, or he shall be the owner of $3(X) worth of property upon which taxes have been paid, over and above the amount exempted by law from taxation, or he shall be a male person who has served this State or country in the capacity of soldier or sailor in any war since 1845, or he shall be the legitimate descendant of a soldier or sailor who has served his State or country in war since 1845; Provided, that the General Assembly, may as an additional qualification for voting, require of all citizens the payment of an annual poll tax of $2.50, which when collected must be applied e.xclusively to the public schools of the State; Provided further, the first General Assembly convened after the adoption of this Constitution, may designate by name, such citizens who are debarred from voting under the provisions of this article and may expressly confer upon them the right to vote if such citizens are proven to be of good character and of good standing in their respective communities. The affi¬ davits of at least twelve reliable and responsible citizens must ac¬ company the name of each person asking the right to vote under this provision, stating the facts of good character and good stand¬ ing of the applicant. Second—He shall have resided in the county for three months, and in the precinct or ward for thirty days immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote: provided, that the General Assembly may prescribe a longer or shorter residence in any pre¬ cinct in any county, or in any ward, in any incorporated city or town having a population of more than 5.000 inhabitants, but in 300 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS no case to exceed three months; and, provided, that no soldier, sailor or marine in the military, or naval service of the United States shall acquire a residence by being: stationed in this State. Third—He shall have resided in the State at least one year immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. BEDDOW—I desire to yield my call to Mr. White of Jefferson. Ordinance No. 209, by Mr. White: A proposition to be entitled an ordinance to regulate suffrage and election in the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in convention assembled, that the following be substituted for Ar¬ ticle VIII of the Constitution of Alabama: article-. Suffrage and Elections. Section 1. That every male citizen of the United States who is a citi¬ zen of Alabama, twenty-one years old, or upwards, having complied with and not being prohibited by this article from registering or voting, shall be an elector and entitled to vote at any election by the people in any State, county, district or municipal election, or any other election authorized by law when such elector shall be duly registered, when registration is required by law; and shall have resided in the election precinct or ward in which he offers to vote, for one year immediately preceding such election, and possesses either of the following qualifications: (1) Being under forty-five years old, has contributed the sum of three dollars, and being over forty-five years old, the sum of $1.50, for the benefit of the common public schools in the township or school district in which he resides, and has paid the same to the Probate Judge of the county of his residence on or before the first day of January in A. D. 1902, and on or before the first day of January in each succeeding year thereafter, a like sum, which sum shall not be collectible by law, but if payment is not made within the prescribed time, the elector may qualify under this clause in any succeeding year, by paying on or before the first day of January of the year in which he offers to vote a like sum, for the purpose aforesaid for each year, beginning with the year 1902, and including the year in which he offers to vote. (2) Or shall have served in the land or naval forces of the United States in any war, or in the land or naval forces of the Confederate States or of the State of Alabama in the war between the States. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 301 Sec. 2. After the year 1910, any person not then a qualified elector of this State shall not become such unless, in addition to the qualifications hereinbefore prescribed, he is able to read and write the English language, or is prevented from doing so on account of physical disability. Provided, however, that from the time this Constitution becomes effective, any male person of foreign birth, twenty-one years old or upwards, who has legally declared his intention to become a citizen of the United States, but has not been naturalized, and who possesses the qualifications prescribed by Clause 1 of Section 1 of this article, and has resided in the election precinct or ward in which he offers to vote for one year immediately preceding said election, shall be entitled to register and vote; provided, he can read and write, but a failure to be able to read and write on account of physical infirmity shall not disqualify such person. Sec. 3. Any person who is of unsound mind, an habitual drunkard, a vagrant, a gambler, or who has for a valuable consideration, purchased the vote or offered to purchase the vote of any elector, or who, for a valuable consideration, has sold or offered to sell his vote at any election held in this State; and all persons who have been convicted in any court organized under the laws of this State, or of any other State, or of the United States, of a felony, or who have been convicted in any court organized under the laws of this State of any offense involving moral turpitude, shall not be entitled to register or vote. Sec. 4. Those possessing the qualifications prescribed by this article shall not be denied the right to vote, and those who do not possess the qualifications herein prescribed shall not be allowed to vote at any election by the people of this State. Sec. 5. The General Assembly shall pass laws, not inconsistent with this article, to regulate :ind govern elections in this State, and all such laws shall be uniform throughout the State. The General Assembly may, when necessary, provide by law for, the registration of electors throughout the State, or in any incorporated city or town thereof, and when it is so pro¬ vided no person shall vote at any election unless he shall have registered as required by law. Sec. 6. Those making pa)'ments to the probate judges under the pro¬ visions of this article, shall, at the time of making such payments, under oath state their names, ages, places of birth, and election precinct or ward in which they reside. The probate judges of the several counties of this State shall make and preserve as a record in their respective offices, an alphabeti¬ cal list of those making such payments for each precinct or ward in their several counties, giving the names, ages, dates and amounts of payment, places of birth and precincts or wards in which those reside who make such payments; and shall on or before the first day of March in each and every year, make and certify a complete copy of such list to the Secretary of State,, who shall file and preserve the same in his office, and shall on or before the day of any election to be held in their respective counties furnish the election officers of each precinct or ward in such county with a certified copy of the list showing payments made for such precinct or ward, and shall be- 302 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS fore the day of any election in any city or town in their respective counties, furnish the election officers of such city or town, certified lists of those making such payments for the several precincts or wards thereof. Sec. 7. All payments made to probate judges under the provisions of this article shall be applied exclusively to the use of the common public schools of the townships or school districts in which the person making such payments reside at the time of making the same. Sec. 8. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to enact adequate laws to preserve the purity of the ballot, punish violations of the election laws, to preserve order and secure to the electors the peaceful and uninter¬ rupted discharge of their legal rights as such, and give protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxicating liquors at elections. Sec. 9. Only persons who are qualified electors under the provisions of this article, shall be allowed to vote in any primary election or to participate in any mass meeting, convention or other method adopted for the purpose of nominating candidates of any polilical party or faction. Sec. 10. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to enact laws governing primary elections, mass meetings, conventions or other methods adopted for the purpose of nominating candidates by any political party or faction, and to punish any dishonest or unfair methods employed in the same, and to punish persons who participate therein who are not qualified electors under the provisions of this article. MR. LONG (Walker.)—I move that the rules be suspended and that the privileges of this convention be extended to the Hon. William Richardson, member of Congress from the Eighth Dis¬ trict of Alabama. THE PRESIDENT—The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Walker that the lules be suspended, all in favor— MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move that the rules be sus¬ pended and that the privileges of this floor be extended to the Hon. Hannis Taylor of Mobile also— THE PRESIDENT—The chair has not put the other mo¬ tion— MR. HEFLIN—I move to amend— THE PRESIDENT—The Chair thinks it is too late to amend. The vote being taken the rules were suspended. THE PRESIDENT—Now, it is the opinion of the Chair that the proposition is open to amendment. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move to amend the motion by adding the name of Hon. Hannis Taylor of Mobile. CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION. 1901 303 A vote being: taken the amendment was carried and a further vote being: taken the motion as amended was carried. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I ask unanimous consent to in¬ troduce a resolution. The consent was given. The resolution was read as follows: Resolution No. 1(X) by Mr. Bulger. That whereas the convention on last Friday adjourned over until noon today, thereby losing Saturday one entire working day, h session of one hour, today, is not long enough to dispose of the business of the convention. ^ Therefore be it resolved. That the rules of the convention as to the hour of adjournment, be suspended and the convention re¬ main in session, today until 2 o’clock p. m. uuvenuon re ®ULGER—I move to suspend the rules and that that resolution be put on its immediate passage. the “ '''' "" '°’'' Co™- MR OATES—As the convention refuses to entertain that motion, I ask leave of absence for today for Mr. Sloan. The leave was granted. 1 , +• I ask unanimous consent to introduce a reso¬ lution to be referred to the Committee on Rules. The leave was given and the resolution was read as follows: Resolution No. 101, By Mr. Watts: ^hat whenever either of the committees heretofore appointed, except the Committee on Rules, on journal, and oro- curmg ministers, is ready to report, the chairman thereof shall h^"d the said report to the Secretary of the Convention X SI the ^ printed and a copy thereof placed upon is colislde^ed.^''^ member of the convention before the said rep^ort +!,<» L report comes up for consideration, bv Referred to Committee on Rules. 304 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. MACDONALD—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Graham of Montgomery, for today. The leave was granted. MR. LOCKLIN—I desire leave of absence for Mr. Mor- risette for today. The leave was granted. MR. BULGER—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Sorrell of Tallapoosa for a week. THE PRESIDENT—The delegate from Tallapoosa asks leave of absence for a week for Mr. Sorrell of Tallapoosa. Unless objection is made leave will be granted. MR. OATES—I don’s think any delegate ought to have leave of absence for a week in this Convention unless there is some reason given. I have heard none given, and unless given, I will object. MR. OATES—The Chair had not announced it. THE PRESIDENT—I think the Chair followed the custom that we have adopted here, and asked for objections. The request was stated to the Convention; the Chair called for objections, but heard none, and the Chair thereupon stated that the leave would be granted. MR. OATES—I may be wrong about it, Mr. President, but I do think it is utterly wrong for delegates to this Convention to ask leave of absence for an entire week, without stating the rea¬ sons for it. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair fully concurs with the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery, and only regrets the objection was not made in time. Ordinance No. 210, by Mr. Bethune (Bullock): To amend the preamble of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the preamble of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: We, the people of the State of Alabama, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common de¬ fense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the State of Alabama. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. Ordinance No. 211, by Mr. Bethune (Bullock) : CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 305 To amend Section 5, of Article XIII. of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5 of Article XIII. be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 5. That the income arising^ from the Sixteenth Section fund, the surplus revenue fund, until it is called for by the United States Government, and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this Article, with such other monies to be not less than $300,000 per annum, as the Legislature shall provide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the use, support and maintenance of the public schools, and that this fund shall be apportioned by the Superintendent of Education among the several counties of the State according to the number of children of school age in each county, and the amounts so apportioned to each county to¬ gether with the poll tax shall be equitably distributed by the County Superintendent of Education among the several public schools or public districts thereof. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. BROOKS—Mr. President, I wish to submit an ordinance. Ordinance No. 212, by Mr. Brooks: To amend Section 1 of Article XL of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article XL of the Constitution be so amended that it shall read as follows: All taxes levied on property in this State shall be assessed in exact proportion to the value of such property and no tax shall be levied on the unpaid purchase money of real estate, or money lent on real estate and secured by lien on the same under a mortgage, deed of trust, contract or other obligation; provided, however, the General Assembly may levy a poll tax not to exceed $1.50 on each poll which shall be applied exclusively in aid of the public school fund of the county so paying the same. Referred to Committee on Taxation. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—Mr. President, I desire to submit a report for the Committee on Rules. The report was read as follows: The Committee on Rules have considered the resolutions hereinafter mentioned, and beg leave to report in regard therto as follows: It returns Resolution No. 22 without action, and recommends that it be referred to the Committee on EducaHbn. 306 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS It reports, as a substitute for the substitute to Resolution 71, introduced by Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale, said substitute offered by Mr. Pillans of Mobile and as a substitute for Resolution No. 85, introduced by Mr. Jones of Wilcox, the following’, and recom¬ mends its adoption by the Convention; Resolved, That it is the sense of this Convention that the several Standing Committees appointed to deal with and consider proposed amendments, changes and alterations of and additions to the present Constitution, where no change is recommended by the Committee or has been made by the Convention in any article or provision of the present Constitution, shall report said provision of the said Constitution as a part of the new Constitution, to be adopted or rejected as the Convention may determine. Resolved, First—That ordinances having for their, only pur¬ pose the re-enactment of Articles or Sections of the present Con¬ stitution shall state the subject in the caption and state the number of the Article and Section proposed to be re-enacted, but the re¬ enacting clause need not set out in extenso the Article or Section to be re-enacted. Second—^That ordinances having for their purpose brief amendments to Sections of the present Constitution shall state the subject in the caption and state the number of the Article and Section to be amended, but the Section amended need not be set out in extenso in the ordinance offered. It reports, as a substitute for Resolution No. 95, introduced by Mr. Pettus of Limestone, the following, and recommends its adoption by the Convention; Resolved, That the Secretary, with the approval of the Pres¬ ident of the Convention, be and he is authorized to purchase such blank books, stationery and other necessary supplies as may be necessary for the use of his office. The Committee returns herewith to the Convention the reso¬ lutions hereinabove referred to. MR. SMITH (Mobile.)—I move the adoption of the report. The motion was carried and the report adopted. Mr. Browne, Ordinance 213; Whereas, There is no provision of the Constitution of the United States which requires a State to maintain a system of public education for the children thereof, or prohibits such State from reasonable discrimination be¬ tween the races in the matter of education, by the appropriation of educa¬ tional funds between them in proportion to the amounts thereof derived from the taxes paid by the respective races; and. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 307 Whereas, The State of Alabama, together with other Southern States, has, by its constitutional provision requiring a distribution of its educational funds for the equal benefit of both races, without regard to the fact that such funds contributed almost entirely by the white race, displayed an un¬ selfish and generous regard for the welfare of the most humble, ignorant and non-tax paying race within its borders, for whose unfortunate condition it is in no wise responsible, which challenges the admiration of civilization; and, whereas the duty of maintaining and upholding those civil and social institutions, and those principals of republican government, which have made our country a brilliant star in the political firmament of nations, constitutes the ‘'white man’s burden” in Alabama; and. Whereas, By reason of such facts, and the greater and more advanced moral development of the white race, the children thereof require and are entitled to greater educational facilities than is possible under a system which requires that every dollar of education paid by such race shall be equally divided with, and expended for, the children of a non-tax paying race; and, Whereas, it would be an ungenerous act for the State to v^rithdraw from such ignorant and unfortunate race that support which its generosity has prompted it to grant; and, Whereas, There is no reason, political or moral, why the white tax paying race should not have the opportunity, through governmental agencies, to make voluntary contributions, in addition to the general educational funds of the State, and within the present constitutional limits of taxation, for the support of separate schools for their own children. Therefore, be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Sections five (5) and seven (7) of Article XI of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama be and they are hereby amended to read as follows: Section 5. No county in this State shall be authorized to levy a larger rate of taxation in any one year, on the value of the taxable property there¬ in than one-half of one percentum; provided, that to pay debts existing at the ratification of this Constitution an additional rate of one-fourth of one per¬ centum may be levied and collected, which shall be exclusively appropriated to the payment of such debts, or the interest thereon; provided, further, that to pay any debt or liability now existing against any county, incurred for the erection of the necessary public buildings, or other ordinary county purposes, or that any hereafter be created for the erection of necessary public buildings, roads or bridges, or maintaining its public schools, any county may levy and collect such special taxes as may have been or may hereafter be authorized by law, which taxes so levied and collected shall be applied exclusively to the purposes for w^hich the same shall have been levied and collected; provided, the rate of any special tax for public roads or for maintaining public schools, the number of years it shall continue and purposes thereof shall have been first submitted to a vote of the property taxpayers of the county, who are qualified electors therein, and shall have been voted for by a majority thereof in numbers, and in value of taxa¬ ble property, voting at such election; provided, further that any such 308 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS special tax for the maintenance of public schools or construction of public roads, may only be levied and collected when it shall not cause a greater rate of taxation than the sum of $L25 on the ?100 of taxable property for all State and county purposes, except the erection of necessary public buildings or bridges; provided, further, that such special tax for public schools shall be appropriated for the benefit of the children of the white race and those of African descent, in proportion as the same shall be derived from taxation of the property owners or held by the two races respectively. Sec. 7. No city, town or other municipal corporation, other than pro- vided for in this article shall levy or collect a larger rate of taxation, in any one year, on the property thereof, than one-half of one per centum of the value of such property, assessed for State taxation during the preceding year; provided, any such city, town or other municipal corporation may levy and collect such special tax as may be authorized by law for the maintenance of public schools; provided, the same may be so levied and collected when it shall not cause a greater rate of taxation than $1.75 on the $100 of taxable property, for all State, county and municipal purposes, except the erection by counties of necessary public bridges and buildings; and provided, the rate of such special tax, the number of years it shall continue and the purpose thereof, shall have been first submitted to a vote of the property taxpayers of such city, town or other municipal corporation, who are qualified electors therein, and voted for by a majority thereof in numbers, and in value of taxa¬ ble property voting at such election; provided, that for the payment of debts existing at the time of the ratification of the Constitution of 1875, and interest thereon, an additional rate of one per centum may be collected, to be applied exclusively to such indebtedness: and, provided* this section shall not ap¬ ply to the city of Mobile, which city may levy a tax not to exceed the rate of three-fourths of one per centum to pay the indebtedness of said city existing at the time of the ratification of the Constitution of 1875, and interest thereon; provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the city of Birmingham, which city may levy and collect a tax not exceeding one-half of one per centum in addition to the tax of one-half of one per centum hereinabove allowed, to be levied and collected, such special tax to be applied exclusively to the payment of the interest on the bonds of said city of Birmingham hereto¬ fore issued by said city in pursuance of law, and for a sinking fund to pay off said bonds at the maturity thereof. Referred to Committee on Taxation. MR. HENDERSON—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a resolution, and that it be referred to the Committee on Rules. The Chair asked if there was any objection; there being none,, the resolution was read: Resolution No. 102, by Mr. Henderson. Resolved, That hereafter no member of this convention shall yield his call for the purpose of introducing resolutions and or¬ dinances to any other member, nor shall any other member on the call of his name introduce resolutions or ordinances in the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 309 name of any other member where such other member answered to his name on roll call on any day’s session of this convention. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—Mr. President,— MR. BROWNE—I rise to a point of order- THE PRESIDENT—Mr. Browne introduced an ordinance and the Secretary omitted to call it to the attention of the Chair. The Secretary will read it. Ordinance No. 214 by Mr. Browne: Regulating- the right to vote. After the ratification of this Constitution, no one shall be allowed to vote in any election, State, county or municipal, held within this State, who shall not be a male citizen thereof, or, being a foreigner, has legally declared his intention of becoming a citizen thereof, over the age of 21 years, and who shall not possess the qualifications of being able to read and write, unless prevented by physical infirmity alone; provided such qualifications of reading and writing, shall not apply to persons who have served the United States, any State thereof or the Confederate States as a soldier, in any war, nor to any descendant of such soldier or sailor who shall be over the age of IS years at the time of the ratification of this Constitution. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee.)—This being a legal holiday in this State, I move that this convention do now adjourn, in honor of the memory of Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confed¬ eracy. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman moves that this conven¬ tion do now adjourn in honor of the memory of Jefferson Davis— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, I think we can best honor Mr. Jefferson Davis, and we all do his memory rever¬ ence— MR. REESE—-I rise to a point of order. A motion to ad¬ journ is not debatable. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The point is well taken. MR. deGRAFFENREID—The gentleman is out of order, be¬ cause the hour for adjournment has arrived, and the convention stands adjourned. THE CHAIR—Before declaring the convention adjourned, the Chair is requested to make some announcements. After reading of the announcements, the convention adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10 o’clock. 310 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ELEVENTH DAY MONTCxOMERY, ALA., Tuesday, June 4th, 1901. The Convention was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Provence, as follows: We come to Thee again, Lord of Heaven and Earth, our Heavenly Father. We invoke Thy blessing upon this day’s work. We thank Thee for the assurances of Thy care; we thank Thee that Thou hast protected us through the dangers of another night, and brought us together in health and strength again to take up today’s duties and today’s work. We would not enter upon any path in life without asking Thy help and Thy guidance. So we come to Thee, praying that Thou wouldst direct us in all that we do. Let Thy blessing be upon every act of this Convention. Guide all the committees in their deliberations. Help them to do the right and wise thing; help them to devise plans that shall be for the upbuilding of our State, for its prosperity, not merely material but moral and spiritual. May Thy presence be felt in the heart of each member of this Convention. We pray Thy blessing upon the homes that are represented here; from many and many a place there come representatives to take up this work and to devise laws that shall be for the governing of our State and for the ad¬ vancement of its interests. We pray Thee to bless those homes; may Thy holy spirit abide with them; may the interests of right¬ eousness, truth and peace be promoted in those homes and here. Guide us all, for Thy glory and use us all for Thy service, for Jesus’s sake, Amen. The roll was then called and one hundred and sixteen dele¬ gates responded. MR. BROWNE—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Graham of Talladega, for yesterday and today. I was requested on last Friday to ask leave yesterday, but the House adjourned in such short order that I did not get the opportunit 3 ^ I also desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Graham of Montgomery for today, on account of being engaged in an important case in Court. The leaves were granted. MR. DUKE—I ask leave of absence for today for Mr. Heflin of Chambers. The leave was granted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 311 MR. BAREFIELD—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Morrisette for today on account of sickness. The leave was g^ranted. MR. TAYLOE—Mr. Cunningham of Jefferson, expected to get back this morning and left word to ask leave of absence for today if he was detained on business. The leave was granted. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Under the rules governing this Convention, the members of the several committees are required to be present during the sittings of the Convention. I desire permission for the Committee on Suffrage and Elections to be ex¬ cused from attending tomorrow's session. We meet at 9 o'clock and one hour does not give us time to accomplish anything for the advancement of our work. We ask to be excused in order that we may proceed tomorrow with a longer session. The permission was unanimously granted and the Committee excused from attendance upon tomorrow's session of the Con¬ vention. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the report of the Committee on the Journal. The report was read and on motion adopted. It reported finding the journal correct. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll of dele¬ gates beginning where he left off on yesterday, for the introduc¬ tion of ordinances, etc. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I rise to a point of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the Question. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I have forgotten, when it was but it has been some time since, the House ordered the printing of the various standing committees, and the report of the Committee on Rules, with the rules that would govern the body. I have never seen them. I rise to ascertain whether or not that order has been complied with. MR. BURNETT—Mr. President, I have the rules here. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is informed that the rules contained the list of the standing committees, and that they have been placed in the hands of the Doorkeeper to be placed on the desks of the members. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Since I made the inquiry one has been placed on my desk. The Secretary proceeded with the call of the roll. 312 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 215, by Mr, Bulger: An ordinance to provide for the election of the officers of this State by the people, and to limit the terms of the same. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled. ARTICLE-. Sec. 1. That all officers of this State, both State and county, \vho draw a salary, or who by virtue of their offices, receive fees, shall be elected by the people. Sec. 2. That all officers who are elected by the people shall hold their offices for a term of four years, and shall be ineligible to a re-election to the first succeeding terra; provided, that Section 1 of this article shall not apply to officers of the military nor to clerks to the different departments of the State and county govern¬ ment ; and, provided further, that Section 2 of this article shall not apply to Judges of the Supreme Court, Judges of the Circuit Courts, and Chancellors. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 216, by Mr. Burnett. An ordinance to amend Section 35 of Article I of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 35 of Article I, of the Constitution be amended by striking out the whole of the said section and insert¬ ing in lieu the following: Sec. 35. The Federal Union is composed of separate, inde¬ pendent sovereign States, and from the Federal,Union there can be no secession of any State. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. Ordinance No. 217, by Mr. Burns: An ordinance to limit the authority of the proper officials. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled : Section 1. That no official shall grant, or issue to any female, under the age of sixteen (16) years a license to marry. Sec. 2. That the General Assembly shall enact laws to pro¬ hibit and punish males from having carnal knowledge of females under the age of sixteen years. Referred to Judiciary Committee. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 313 Ordinance No. 218, by Mr. Burns; To rep-ulate the establishment of charitable, educational or agricultural institution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, That no charitable, educational or agricultural institution, other than those State in¬ stitutions now in existence, or provided for in this Constitution, shall be established by this State; except upon a vote of two-thirds of each house of the General Assembly. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 219, by Mr. Burns: To prohibit the fixing of prices or hours for laborers. Section 1. The General Assembly shall not enact any law by which the prices for manual labor or the number of hours per day such labor shall be performed. Sec. 2. The General Assembly may enact laws for the pro¬ tection, regulation or prohibition of child labor. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Mr. Byars yielded his turn to Mr. Knight. Ordinance No. 220, by Mr. Knight. An ordinance to amend Section 3 of Article VIII of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 3 of Article VIII be amended so as to read as follows; Sec. 3. The following classes shall not be permitted to regis¬ ter, vote or hold office: First—Those who shall have been convicted of treason, em¬ bezzlement, malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery or other crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, or assault and battery on the wife. Second—^Those who are idiots or insane. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 221, by Mr. Cardon: Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled; That Section 1 of Article IV of the present Constitution be so amended as to read as follows: 314 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ARTICLE IV. Legislative Department. Section 1. The legislative power of this State shall be vested in a General Assembly which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives. Provided, That such General Assembly may authorize the Board of County Commissioners of any county, to put up orders, in the nature of legislative enactments, and under such directions, restrictions and regulations as the General As¬ sembly may deem necessaiy and sufficient, covering the demands and meeting the requirements of any such county or part thereof. And provided further, that no order as above authorized shall be in conflict with any general law of the State of Alabama. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. Ordinance 222, by Mr. Cardon: Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled; That, Section 1 of Article VI of the present Constitution be so amended as to read as follows: ARTICLE VI. Judicial Department. Section 1. The judicial power of the State shall be vested in the Senate sitting as a court of impeachment, a Supreme Court and such other inferior courts of law and equity as the General Assembly may from time to time establish, and such persons as may be by law invested with powers of a judicial nature. Pro¬ vided that the officers presiding over any such inferior court, if the same be a court of record, shall be learned in the law and shall have been a resident, within the territory of the jurisdiction of such county, for a period of one year next preceding his induction into his office. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 223 by Mr. Carmichael (Coffee). An ordinance to regulate the amount of money which may be expended by the State for the support of State institutions of learning. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That a new section be added to Article XIII, to read as follows: Section — The General Assembly shall not establish any new State institution of learning, nor appropriate a greater amount to any State institution of learning already established than was ap¬ propriated to said schools by the General Assembly of 1900 and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 315 1901 ; Provided, that when the amount appropriated for the main¬ tenance of the common schools exceeds $3 per capita according; to the latest school census, the provisions of this section may be suspended by a two-thirds vote of the General Assembly for such period as the amount appropriated to the common schools is in excess of $3 per capita. Referred to the Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 224, by Mr. Carnathan. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled; That the General Assembly, Boards of Revenue, or Courts of County Commissioners, shall not establish any district in which live stock shall be prohibited from running; at larg;e, unless a majority of the land owners (in fee simple) resident and non-resident in the district proposed to be established so desire. The same to be expressed in an election to be held in a manner prescribed by law. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. Ordinance No. 225, by Mr. Carnathan. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled that Section 25 of Article VI of the present constitution be and the same is hereby amended; so as to read as follows; A solicitor for each judicial circuit shall be elected by the qualified electors of said judicial circuit, who shall be learned in the law and who shall, at the time of his election and during his continuance in office reside in the circuit for which he is chosen and whose term of office shall be for six years. Second—A solicitor for each county shall be elected by the qualified electors of the county for which he is chosen, who shall at the time of his election and during his continuance in office reside in said county and whose term of office shall be for six years. Third—A solicitor for each city court now established or to be hereafter establshed by law, shall be elected by the qualified electors of the city or county over which the court for which he is elected has jurisdiction, who shall at the time of his election and during his continuance in office reside in said city, and whose term of office shall be for six years. Fourth—That vacancies created by death, resignation, im¬ peachment, removal from circuit, county or city, or other disability, shall be filled by election of the qualified electors of the circuit, county or city, affected thereby. Referred to the Committee on Judiciary. 316 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolution 103 by Mr. Case: Whereas, It is truthfully said: “If we would see the founda¬ tion laid broadly and deeply on which the fabric of this country’s liberties shall rest to the remotest generation, if we would see her carry forward the work of political reformation, and rise the bright and morning star of freedom over a benighted word, let us elevate the intellectual and moral character of every class of our citizens; and, most especially let us imbue them thoroughly with the phin- ciples of the gospel of Jesus Christ,” but how shall we accomplish such reformation for the negro if we afford him no opportunity scarcely for literary culture, thus depriving him of chances for an education, as it were, to a great extent? Such will not only discourage him, but, like an enemy, will turn to injure the white man, because all observation has clearly demonstrated the more any men are enlightened to comprehend virtue, that less likely they are to perpetuate crime, and the better citizens they make. And, whereas. Several ordinances have been introduced, in this Convention, providing for an unequal distribution of the public school funds of the State between the white students and those of the colored children, and being of the opinion such ordinances are contrary to the spirit of the Federal Constitution, taking into consideration the language of the Fourteenth Amendment to the same, as follows: “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal pro¬ tection of the laws.” Therefore be it Resolved, That the Judiciary Committee is hereby respectfully requested at its earliest convenience, to bring in a report stating whether or not such discrimination, as aforesaid, is in violation of the Federal Constitution. Referred to Judiciary Committee. MR. LONG (Walker)—Mr. President, I would suggest that that go to the Supreme Court. MR. CASE—Mr. President, I think it should be referred to Mr. Long—I will withdraw the resolution, Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT—The ordinance has already been referred to the Judiciary Committee. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I have a resolution I desire to offer, and ask unanimous consent for its consideration. Resolution No. 104, by Mr. Rogers (Sumter) : Resolved, That whereas, the resolution of the Convention, adopted at an early date its organization that there should be printed for the use and benefit of the delegates, the Constitutions of several designated States, bearing upon the question of suL CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 317 fraee; and, whereas, the material for such printing was promptly supplied, and whereas, up to this time said resolution has not been complied with, Resolved, That the Committee on Schedule, Printing: and In¬ cidental Expenses, be instructed not to pay for any such printing, unless, after examination, it be ascertained that the delay was absolutely unavoidable. Referred to Committee on Schedule, Printing; and Incidental expenses. MR CHAPMAN—As the ordinances I send to the Clerk s desk purport to amend Article IV. of the Constitution, Legrisla- tive Department, I ask that they be referred to the Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 226, by Mr. Chapman; Be it ordained by the people of Alabatna in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section thirty-one (31) of Article four (IV.) of the Constitution, be amended so as to read as follows, to wit. Sec. 31. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives, but the Governor, Auditor, T^a^rer and Attorney General shall, before each regular session ?f the Gen¬ eral Assembly, prepare a general revenue bill to be submitted to the General Assembly for its action, and the Secretary of State shall have printed for the use of the General Assembly a ^fficient ”“”1- ber of copies of the bill to be so prepared, and the Governor shall transmit a copy thereof to the House of Representatives, as soon as it is organized. The Senate may propose amendments to rev¬ enue bill. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 227, by Mr. Chapman; Be it ordained by the people of Alabama m Convention as¬ sembled, That Article IV. of the Constitution be amended by adding thereto the following Section, viz; Sec. 57. The General Assembly during every regular session thereof shall not have power to make appropriations to such an amount as that the aggregate of all appropriations made airing the session shall exceed the amount which has been paid into the Treasury of the State during the last preceding fiscal year. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 228, by Mr. Chapman; Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Article four (IV) of the Constitution be amended by adding thereto the following Section, viz: 318 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 57. The General Assembly duringf any regular session thereof shall not have power to make appropriations to such an amount as that the aggregate of all appropriations made during the session shall exceed the amount of the estimated income during the current fiscal year from the revenue of the State for the current fiscal year as estimated by the Governor, Auditor and Treasurer of the State. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 229 by Mr. Cofer: An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to encourage immi¬ gration to the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That immigration shall be encouraged and shall not be prohibited; that no citizen shall be exiled and that the General Assembly of this State shall pass such laws necessary to encourage immigration to this State and protect the citizens of this State in their public and private rights. Referred to Committee on Miscellaneous Revisions. Ordinance No. 230, b}’’ Mr. Cofer: An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to amend Section 1 of Article XIII of the Constitution of the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article XIII of the Constitution of the State of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Section 1. A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the rights of the people and the liberties of the citizens, public schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged in this State; and the General Assembly of this State shall provide a thorough and efficient system of free schools in this State, whereby all the children of this State may receive a good common school education. Referred to the Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 231, by Mr. Cofer: An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to regulate the repre¬ sentation of the counties of the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in con¬ vention assembled, That the Representatives in the General As¬ sembly of the State of Alabama shall be apportioned among the several counties of this State according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each county. But when the right to vote at any election, authorized under the Constitution or laws of the State of Alabama, is denied to any of the male in- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 319 habitants of such county being: 21 years of ag:e and citizens of the United States or in any way abridg^ed, except for the participation in rebellion or the commission of infamous crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens 21 years of ag-e in such county. Provided, further, that the members of the State Senate shall be elected from Sena¬ torial Districts established upon the basis of representation herein prescribed and above set out and defined. Referred to Committee on Representation. Ordinance No. 232, by Mr. Cofer: An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to regfulate the ap¬ portionment and appropriation of the school funds of the State to the common public schools of the State, Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in con¬ vention assembled, That all lands or other property gfiven by in¬ dividuals, unless otherwise expressed in the donation or appro¬ priated by the State of educational purposes and all estates of deceased persons who die without leaving a will or heir or heirs, and all taxes levied for school purposes, or portion of the general funds of the State which may hereafter be appropriated, shall be appropriated for the equal benefit of the children of the State between the ages of 7 and 18 years of age, attending the common schools of the State, and that said appropriations shall be made so as to operate upon and in favor of all alike without special local rights or benefits, privileges or burdens; and no appropriations shall be made to any special or favorite class or children of special localities, except upon an exact and equal basis and upon the same ratio or proportion as made to all the children in the State. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 233, by Mr. Craig: To amend the Constitution of Alabama by an additional “Ar¬ ticle.” Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That the Constitution of Alabama be amended by adding thereto the following article: Section 1. The General Assembly is invested with power to enact laws, and is required to provide the same, for the preven¬ tion and punishment of “lynching,” or death or bodily harm to persons who are not then actually engaged in the perpetration of some infamous crime, by combinations of persons in mobs, or by the concerted action of five or more persons; and. 320 OPFieiAt PROCEEDINGS ^ (2) To present and suppress riots, routs and assemblies that endanger, threaten or disturb the public peace and safety; and, (3) To prevent and punish conspiracies or agreements be¬ tween two or more persons or their concerted action to prevent any person or association of people from the full and free right to eng^e m any lawful pursuit, service, employment or work; and, (4) To incorporate labor unions and associations, with au¬ thority to limit the hours of work, by day or by night, that those persons, of lawful age who shall voluntarily become members thereof shall be required, or permitted, to perform under contract or agreement with any person, corporation or government. Sec. 2. The General Assembly is empowered and required to enact laws to prevent the employment of children under twelve years of age- m any factory or work-shop by any person other than a parent, or the duly and lawfully appointed custodian of the person of such child; and to prevent any person from employing any child within the school age for more than eight months in any calendar year, in any factory or work-shop. Sec. 3. The General Assembly is empowered and required to enact laws to prohibit and punish all trust agreements, and all as¬ sociations or combinations or concerted action of persons or cor¬ porations for the purpose of controlling the prices of labor, or of employment in any work, business or vocation, and the rates of freight or fares on any railroad or by com¬ mon carriers or on telegraph or telephone lines, or the con¬ trol of the rates of premium by insurance companies, or com- pnies that loan money or credit, or the rates of charges of ware¬ house men, or by dealers in stocks or bonds, unless such persons associations, or corporations are expressly authorized by act of the L,egislature to enter into such trust agreements, associations, concerted action, or combinations. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 234, by Mr. Craig: To amend Sections 1 and 2 of Article I of the Constitution of Alabama. people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled: That Sections 1 and 2 of Article I of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows, to wit: Section 1. That all men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuits of happiness. T 7 persons resident in this State, born in the United States, or naturalized, or who have legally declared their CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 321 intention to become citizens of the United States, are hereby de¬ clared to be citizens of the State of Alabama. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rigfhts. MR. BROOKS—I have been requested to ask leave for the delegate from Montgomery, Mr. Macdonald, who is unavoidably detained in the Supreme Court. This request would have been made earlier but he expected to be here before this time. The leave was granted. Ordinance No. 235, by Mr. Craig: To amend Section 1, Article X of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : That Sections 1 and 2 of Article X of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows, to wit: Section 1. The personal property of any resident of this State to the value of two (2) thousand dollars, to be selected by such resident shall be exempted from sale on execution, or other pro¬ cess of any court issued for the collection of any debt contracted since the 13th day of July, 1868, or after the ratification of this Constitution. Sec. 2. That every homestead, not exceeding one hundred and sixty acres and the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, to be selected by the owner thereof and not in any city or town or vil¬ lage, or in lieu thereof at the option of the owner, any lot in the city, town or village with the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, owned by any resident of this State and not exceeding the value of two thousand five hundred dollars, shall be exempt from sale on execution or any other process of any court and from adminis¬ tration for the payment of any debt contracted since the thirteenth day of July, 1868, and after the ratification of this Constitution: and in any selection of any homestead in any city, town or village, such exemption must be rendered with reference to value, and may extend to one or more lots, and such lots need not be contiguous to each other. Such exemptions, however, shall not extend to any mortgage lawfully obtained, but such mortgage or other alien¬ ation of such homestead, by the owner thereof, if a married man, shall not be valid without the voluntary signature and assent of the wife to the same. The title to any such homestead shall vest absolutely in the widow and minor children or either of any de¬ ceased husband or father. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. Ordinance No. 236, by Mr. G'raig: 322 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS An ordinance to amend Section 15 of Article VI of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section 15 of Article VI of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows, to wit: Section 15. The Chief Justice and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court, Circuit Judges, Chancellors and probate judges shall hold office for the term of eight years and until their suc¬ cessors are elected or appointed and qualified; and the rights of such judges and Chancellors to hold their offices for the full term hereby prescribed shall not be affected by any change hereafter make by law in any circuit, division or County in the mode or time of election; but no such Judge or Chancellor shall be eligible to election so as to succeed himself until after the lapse of one entire term of eight years. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 237, by Mr. Craig; An ordinance to prescribe the mode and manner in and by which the Governor of this State may exercise the appointing power to office in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled ; Section 1. That the General Assembly of this State shall have no power to create any office in this State and confer upon the Governor the appointing power to fill such office or offices; but such office or offices so created shall be filled in the first in¬ stances by an election to be ordered and held for that purpose; provided, however, that should the necessity arise for the imme¬ diate filling of any such office or offices, the Governor may ap¬ point such office, but such appointment shall be for a period not exceeding sixty days. Section 2. Be it further ordained, That it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide for elections to be held not less than twenty nor more than sixty days from the date of the act creating such office or offices, such elections if State offices, to be held over the entire State, and if local such election to be held in the locality, circuit, district or municipality for which said office or offices ate created. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance 238, by Mr. Craig: An ordinance to regulate suffrage in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 323 Section 1. That all white females residing in this State, over the of 21 years are hereby declared to be qualified voters under the Constitution and laws of this State; possessing the same rights, qualifications and powers and privileges as male voters, and gov¬ erned by the same election laws. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. DAVIS (DeKalb)—I introduce a memorial by request, in connection with Ordinance No. 170. Memorial in connection with ordinance No. 170: To the Honorable, the Constitutional Convention of the State of Alabama: With tlie view of protesting against any interference by your honorable body with the act approved March 5th, 1901, removing the county seat of Shelby County from Columbiana to Calera, and in answer to the “memoriar^ accompanying the introduction of Ordinance No. 170 into the convention, which ordinance is now in the hands of the Committee on State and County Boundaries, we beg leave to respectfully submit the following: The location of the county seat of Shelby County has been a bone of contention between the advocates of Columbiana and Calera for the past twenty years. In 1894 (not 1895 as set forth in said memorial) an election was held in the county upon the question, but the law under which it was held failed to provide for a contest or to provide any safe guards against fraud, and the Columbiana advocates being in absolute control of the election machinery they took advantage of the weakness of the law and most unmer¬ cifully counted Calera out by all sorts of frauds, such as importing voters, stuffed ballot boxes, and throwing out boxes which w^ere favorable to Calera. In 1899 an act was passed by the General Assembly—over the opposi¬ tion of the Columbiana advocates—permitting another election on the question within four years from the passage of said act. This act was well guarded against frauds, particularly the frauds perpetrated in the former election, but it failed to expressly provide that no step should be taken in the meantime to build a new court house at Columbiana. No one supposed that any such effort would be made as it was clearly against the spirit of the last session of the General Assembly the fact came to the knowledge of the Senator and Representative from Shelby County that there was a well de¬ fined plan on foot to forestall the election law in force by quietly arranging for the erection of new county buildings at Columbiana as soon as the legisla¬ ture should adjourn. Upon receiving this information, the correctness of which they did not then and do not now doubt, the Senator and Represen¬ tatives consulted over the matter and being satisfied that a majority of the people of the county favored Calera as the county seat, they decided to in¬ troduce and pass a bill removing the county seat from Columbiana to Calera and proceeded to do so. The bill was regularly introduced, read once by its caption and referred to the Committee on Counties and County Boun¬ daries at the afternoon session of February 26th, the forty-fifth day of the session; on the next day it was reported, read second time and placed 324 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS on the House calendar, and on the next day it was, after due notice, called up and put upon its passage, being read third time, and was duly passed by the house. It was sent forthwith to the Senate, as other bills passed at that stage, without engrossment. In the Senate it was read first time and re¬ ferred to the Committee on Corporations. February 28th the two houses adjourned over to March 2nd, when the bill was reported favorably by the committee, read second time, and placed on the Senate calendar. The two houses again recessed from March 2nd to March 5th, when the bill was called up, read third time and passed at the afternoon session. Later on the same day it was signed by the presiding officers of the two houses in the presence of their respective houses, after its title had been publicly read and the fact entered on the journal. It received executive approval the same day. It will be seen that the bill went upon the House calendar on February 26th, seven days before the final adjournment of the legislature and that the wholesale aspersions attempted to be cast upon all persons connected with the passage of the bill are without any foundation in fact. While the “Citi¬ zens Committee” of Columbiana indulge in much extravagant language touching the passage of the bill, they seem to rely upon the absence of recol¬ lection on the part of certain members of the House and upon such want of recollection to base their wholesale charges of fraud. Among all the letters claimed to have been received from members of the House by the “Citizens Committee,” the letter of Mr. Striplin seems to be regarded as alone worth publication Mr. Striplin says: “I don’t remember one thing about it.” All else that he says is merest conjecture . The representative states positively that he carried this identical bill with the identical cover now on it to Mr. Striplin, together with a note from Senator Oliver asking its favorable consideration and that he, the repre¬ sentative, saw Mr. Striplin go to members of the committee with the bill in his hand and procure their signatures on the back of the bill with a favora¬ ble report. The removal act, which carefully guards the interests of the county, limits the issue of bonds to $30,000 and the rate of interest to 5 per cent. And requires the redemption of $2,000 of the principal each year by lot at a premium of 5 per cent, thus paying off the bonds with the specified levy of one-eighth of 1 per cent in the fifteen years or less according to the amount issued. So that the indebtedness which may be placed on the county is little more than half the amount estimated by the “Citizens Committee” of Co¬ lumbiana. As to the location of Calera, it is far more accessible to a majority of the people of the county than Columbiana, because of the fact that it has railroads leaving it in five different directions, and touching every precinct in the county with the exception of two. Columbiana is far from the geo¬ graphical centre of the county and still farther from the centre of population in point of accessibility. A glance at the map will aid in demonstrating these facts. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 325 The Senator and Representative emphatically denies that they ‘"had as¬ sured the people of the county that they would not introduce any legisla¬ tion pertaining to the court house/’ They were not pledged on the question of the removal of the county seat, nor was it an issue in the campaign. Touching the alleged action of political parties in Shelby County, it is denied that the action taken by certain persons claiming to represent the Democratic and Populist parties at Columbiana was representative of these parties in the county. There was not a quorum of the precincts represented in either case. Nor was the result of the election with the advocates of Columbiana in charge of the machinery any reliable index to the will of the people in regard to the court house question. Moreover, the advocates of Calera do not understand that the subject is one of which the Constitutional Convention will take cognizance. The advocates of Columbiana have resorted to all possible litigation to strike down the removal act and the question of its validity is now before the Supreme Court, where a decision will no doubt be rendered at an early day. Wherefore, and for various other reasons, we respectfully submit that it is wholly inexpedient for this honorable body to undertake to nullify said removal act. Respectfully submitted, W. R. Oliver, Senator from Shelby County, G. B. Deens. Representative from Shelby County. State and Counties Boundaries. MR. LONG (Walker)—I desire to move that this Convention declare that resolution, and all other resolutions relating* to the Shelby County Court House, out of order and in the wrong court. MR. REESE—Mr. President, I make the point of order that that should be referred to the same committee as the other memo¬ rial on the same subject. THE PRESIDENT—Except by suspension of the rules this memorial will be referred to the Committee on State and County Boundaries. Does the gentleman move to suspend the rules? MR. LONG (Walker)—No, I do not move to suspend the rules, but I think a majority of this Convention certainly have the right to declare resolutions out of order, and that was my motion, that this resolution and all resolutions relating to the Shelby County Court House, be declared out of order by this Con¬ vention. 326 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The present call relates to the intro¬ duction of memorials and ordinances. A memorial on the _ —--day and referred to the Com¬ mittee on State and County Boundaries. Unless the gentleman moves to suspend the rules, and take this matter up now, the regular order will be to refer it to the same Committee. There was no motion to suspend and it was so referred. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I desire to ask unanimous consent to make a correction of a clerical error in the report of the Rules Committee on yesterday. Leave was granted. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—The error consisted in stating that Resolution No. 95 was introduced by Mr. Pettus of Limestone, when it was in fact, introduced by Mr. Wilson of Clarke. THE PRESIDNENT—The correction will be made, if there is no objection, MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I yield my place on the roll call to Mr. Pitts of Dallas. Ordinance No. 239, by Mr. Pitts: An ordinance to fill vacancies in county offices by the Court of County Commissioners. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That all vacancies in county offices by death, impeach¬ ment, resignation or any other cause, shall be filled by appointment of the Court of County Commissioners, until the next general State election, when said vacancies shall be filled by the qualified electors of said county. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 240, by Mr. Ferguson: An ordinance to dispense with the necessity of indictment in certain felony cases. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the necessity of indictment may be dispensed with in the felony cases of grand larceny, burglary, and receiving stolen property, in like manner as provided for in misdemeanor cases, in Section 9 of Article I. of the Constitution of 1875. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 241 by Mr. Fletcher: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 327 To amend Section 50, Article IV. of the Constitution by add¬ ing the following words at the end of the Section: But any incorporated city or town shall have the right to alter, change, extend or contract their corporate limits whenever three-fourths of the members of the City Council, or Board of Mayor and Aldermen, shall vote for the same. Said vote to be taken by ayes and nays and spread on the Journal or Minute Book of said city or town. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 242, by Mr. Fletcher: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5 of Article XI. of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: No county in this State shall be authorized to levy a larger rate of taxation, in any one year, on the value of the taxable property therein, than one-half of 1 per centum. Provided, that to pay debts existing at the ratification of this Constitution, an additional rate of one-fourth of 1 per centum may be levied and collected, which shall be exclusively appropriated to the payment of such debts, or the interest thereon. Provided, further, that to any debt or liability now existing against any county, incurred for the erection of the necessary public buildings, or other ordinary county purposes, or that may hereafter be created for the erection of the necessary public buildings or bridges, any county may levy and collect such special taxes as may have been or may hereafter be authorized by law, which taxes so levied and collected shall be applied exclusively to the purposes for which the same shall have been levied and collected, and provided, further, that whenever any city is the county seat of a county, and shall pay one-hajlf or more of the taxes levied and collected by the county for general purposes, it shall be the duty of the County Commissioners or Board of Revenue of said county to pay over to the City Council or Board of Mayor and Aldermen of the city so located each year not less than one-fourth of the revenue collected by taxation upon the property situated and located within the corporate limits of said city, for the use and benefit of the city. But this provisos shall not apply to taxes collected to pay debts, or public buildings, bridges or other ordinary county purposes. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. MR. FOSTER—I yield my turn to Mr. Searcy. Ordinance No. 243, by Mr. Searcy: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5, Article IV. of the Constitution be amend¬ ed by adding the words: Provided, further, no county shall incur 328 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS debt or issue bonds to an amount in excess of 5 per cent, of the value of the taxable real estate, as shown by preceding^ assessment. This ordinance shall not apply to the refunding of debts or bonds in existence at the ratification of this Constitution, but no county whose indebtedness at the time of ratification of this Con¬ stitution exceeds 5 per cent, of the assessed value of the taxable real estate, shall incur any additional indebtedness, so long as its indebtedness equals or exceeds 5 per cent, of the value of its taxa¬ ble real estate. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 244, by Mr. Searcy: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That the Treasurer of the State of Alabama may have the right to deposit the funds of the State in such banks and bank¬ ing institutions doing business in the State, as are selected by the Treasurer, and approved by the Governor and Auditor of the State. Provided, the bank or banks so selected, shall first deposit with the Treasurer of the State of Alabama, Alabama or United States bonds as security for said funds deposited in any bank or banking institution. And at no time shall the funds so deposited in any bank or banking institution exceed the par value of bonds deposited as security. In case of default by any such depository, the Treasurer shall have the right to sell all or a part of bonds so de¬ posited to net an amount to cover said loss or default. Referred to Committee on Banks and Banking. Resolution No. 105, by Mr. Searcy: Resolved, That whereas this convention has made a contract with Mr. Pat McGauly for stenographic reports of the proceed¬ ings of the convention, wherein it was agreed to pay said McGauly $70 for each working day of the convention for such stenographic report; and, whereas, there is now no authority in law for the Auditor to draw his warrant on the Treasurer for payment of said stenographer, therefore be it ordained by the people of Ala¬ bama in convention assembled. That there is hereby appropriated a sum sufficient to pay whatever shall be due said stenographer according to said contract, and the Auditor is hereby authorized and empowered to draw his warrant on the Treasurer in favor of said stenographer for such sums as shall from time to time be certified to him for such purposes by the President and Secretary of this convention.” Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. LOCKLIN—I offer an ordinance. Mr. Morrisette of Monroe is the author of this ordinance, and, at his request, I in¬ troduce it: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 329 ‘Ordinance No. 245 by Mr. Morrisette. An ordinance to amend Article VIII of the Constitution by striking out the whole thereof, and inserting the following to pro¬ vide who shall register, vote and hold office in Alabama. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That every male citizen of this State, and of the United States, native-born or naturalized, not less than 21 years of age, and possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector, and shall be entitled to vote at any election in this State by the people, except as may be herein otherwise provided. Sec. 2. He shall have resided in the State of Alabama for one year, in the county six months and in the precinct, ward, or other election district in which he offers to vote, for three months next preceding the election. Provided, that removal from one precinct, ward or other election district, to another in the same county, shall not operate to deprive any person of the right to vote in the precinct, ward or other election district from which he has removed, until three months after such removal; and, provided, that no soldier, sailor or marine in the military or naval service of the United States shall acquire a residence by being stationed in this State. Sec. 3. Every person offering to vote shall be at the time a legally registered voter as herein prescribed, and in the manner hereinafter pro¬ vided by law and the General Assembly of Alabama shall enact general registration laws to carry into effect the provisions of this article. Sec. 4. Every person presenting himself for registration shall be able to read and write any section of the Constitution of the State of Alabama, and of the United States, in the English language; or shall own property in value to the amount of $300, as shall appear from the tax assessment rolls for the preceding year, or for the year in which such person presents himself for registration; and upon which all taxes due at the time shall be paid, if said property be personal; and in either event such person shall be of good moral character, and shall have paid a poll tax of $2 for the year next preceding the election at which he offers to vote, and also the poll tax for the year in which said election is held, provided the same is due. But no male person who served as a soldier or a sailor, or in any ca¬ pacity in the military or naval service of the United States, or the Confed¬ erate States in the civil war between the States, shall be denied the right to register and vote at any election in this State by reason of his failure to possess the educational or property qualification herein prescribed, pro¬ vided, he shall have registered in accordance with the terms of this Article prior to December 1st, 1910, and shall be possessed of the good moral char¬ acter herein prescribed, and shall have paid his poll taxes, as herein above prescribed. Sec. S. The General Assembly shall provide for the registration of all persons entitled to vote without the educational or property qualifications hereinabove prescribed, and shall on or before the first day of December, 330 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 1910, provide for the making of a permanent record of such registration, and all persons so registered shall forever thereafter have the right to vote in all elections by the people in this State, unless disqualified as herein other¬ wise provided: but all such persons not registered according to law by the first day of December, 1910, shall not be entitled to vote, unless they pos¬ sess the general qualifications herein prescribed for all electors in this State. Sec. 6. There shall be established for each county in this State a Board of Election Registrars, to consist of three members, one of whom shall be appointed by the Governor of the State, one by the Judge of the circuit in which such county it is situated, and one of whom shall be elected by the people in the manner prescribed by the Legislature. The term of office of the members composing such Board shall be two years, or until their suc¬ cessors, are duly qualified. Such county board, or a majority of its members, shall appoint for each precinct, ward or other election district, a registrar, whose duty it shall be to register the voters of such precinct, ward, or other election district, at the time, and in the manner which may be provided by law. His term of office shall be two years. It shall be the duty of the Registrar appointed by the County Board, to register all male persons, over the age of 21 years, residing in the pre¬ cinct, ward, or other election district, for which such registrar is appointed, who shall possess the qualifications prescribed in Section 4 of this Article, and who shall make application to be so registered. Such registrar shall make a list of all persons registered by him, and return the same to the County Board of Election Registrars, who shall review the same, either upon their own motion, or upon the application of any person, and such County Board shall have the authority to add to said list the names of any persons possessing the qualifications herein prescribed, whom said precinct, ward or other election district registrar, has failed or refused to register; and such County Board shall also have the authority to strike, from said list the names of any persons thereon improperly registered, and who do not possess the requisite qualifications. Any person aggrieved by the action of said County Board shall have the right to appeal to the next session of the grand jury of said County, whose action, to be determined by a majoritj’ of its members, shall be final. Sec. 7. The following persons shall not be permitted to register as voters, to vote, or to hold public office while their disabilities continue: Those who are idiots, or insane; those who have been convicted of giv¬ ing or receiving a bribe to influence voters, or any election officer, with reference to any election by the people; those who have been convicted, or who shall have confessed their guilt upon indictment pending, of any of¬ fense punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, unless their disabilities have been removed according to law. Sec. 8. All elections by the people shall be by ballot; and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 331 Sec. 9. Electors shall in all cases, except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, or while going to or returning therefrom. Sec. 10. The General Assembly shall enact laws, not inconsistent with this Constitution, to regulate and govern elections in this State, and all such laws shall be uniform throughout the State. Sec. 11. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to enact adequate laws affording protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxi¬ cating liquors at all elections. Sec. 12. Persons who are not citizens of the United States, and who are not descended from a father and mother belonging to the white race, shall not be eligible to any office under the Constitution and laws of the State of Alabama. Sec. 13. All persons elected to public office in this State before enter¬ ing upon the duties of the office to which they have been elected, shall take and subscribe the following oath: - (Jq solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and main¬ tain the Constitution and Laws of the United States, and the Constitution and laws of the State of Alabama, not inconsistent therewith, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of my office as -, so help me God. Referred to Committee on Suffrag’e and Elections. Ordinance No. 246, by Mr. Grayson: An ordinance to amend Sections 4 and 5 of Article XI of the Constitution. Section 1. Be it ordained that Section 4 of Article XI be and the same is hereby amended to read as follows: (Sec. 4.) The General Assembly shall not have power to levy in any one year a g'reater rate of taxation than sixty-five hun¬ dredths of one per centum on the value of the taxable property within this State. Sec. 2. Be it further ordained that Section 5 of Article XI of the Constitution l)e amended by adding- to the end of said section the words: And provided, further, That for aiding in maintaining the public turnpikes and roads an additional rate of one-tenth of one per centum may be levied and collected to be applied exclusively to said purposes. Referred to the Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 247, by Mr. Grayson: 332 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS An ordinance to provide for the payment of the public debt. Section 1. Be it ordained that the General Assembly shall create a sinking; fund to provide for the redemption or purchase of the bonds of this State. Sec. 2. Be it further ordained, that the sum of one hundred thousand dollars be set apart annually out of the funds raised by general taxation together with such other funds as the General Assembly may provide for said sinking fund. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution by Mr. Grayson: Resolved. That the official stenographer be required to state the day of the week, as well as the day of the month, at the head of the daily reports. MR. GRAYSON—It will be a great convenience to delegates in making reference to the proceedings and I move that the rules be suspended and that that resolution be placed on its passage. A reading of the resolution was called for and the resolution was again read. THE PRESIDENT — The Chair thinks the resolution will hardly be necessary. The Chair will simply direct the stenogra¬ pher to follow the suggestion of the delegate. MR. GRAYSON—If it is the pleasure of the Chair so to do, all right. THE PRESIDENT — Does the gentleman withdraw the resolution? MR. GRAYSON—Yes, sir; I withdraw it with that under¬ standing. Ordinance No. 248, by Mr. Harrison; An ordinance to limit the issue of bonds or other evidences of debt by cities and towns in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That after the ratification of this Constitution, no town or city shall issue bonds or other evidences of debt to a greater amount than three per cent of the assessed taxable value of the preperty thereof. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 249, by Mr. Heflin (Randolph) : Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 26 of Article VI. of the Constitution is hereby ratified and confirmed. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 333 Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 250, by Mr. Henderson (Pike). To fix the time for the assemblinpr of the General Assembly. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the new Constitution provide that the Leg’islature shall hold its sessions between the months of February and Oc¬ tober, assembling: on such date and holding for such len^h of time as may be fixed by the Convention. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 251, by Mr. Henderson (Pike) : Providing for the bonding of State and county officers. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That all officers of this State and the counties thereof who are required to give bond for the forthcoming of money en¬ trusted to them or for which they may be liable, shall, before en¬ tering upon the discharge of theii duties, give such bond in some bond or security company authorized by law to engage in such bonding security business in this State. Sheriffs of the several counties to be excepted from this provision. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 252, by Mr. Henderson (Pike) : Reducing the number of jurors. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the number of jurors hereafter drawn to try cases in the courts of this State be reduced to eight, except in capital cases, and that no verdict can be rendered except by unanimous consent. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 253, by Mr. Henderson (Pike) : To provide for the working of convicts of the several counties of this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That all convicts sentenced to hard labor for any county in this State shall be worked upon the public roads of the several counties, as may hereafter be provided by law; Provided, the Court of County Commissioners or the Board of Revenue of the several counties may hire such convicts to any other county to be worked upon the public roads. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. 334 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 254, by Mr. Henderson (Pike) : Providing for the exemption of cotton mills from taxation. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 6 of Article XI, be amended as follows: Provided, the General Assembly may, by general law, exempt from assessment and levy for taxation for State, county and mu¬ nicipal purposes, for a period of ten years, cotton mills of not less then ten thousand (10,000) spindles, hereafter constructed, erect¬ ed and operated in this State. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 255 by Mr. Henderson (Pike) : Regulating and providing for the publication of laws and bills. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That all laws hereafter passed by the General Assembly and which shall be of a general nature, shall after becoming a law, be published in at least one newspaper in each county of this State as may be provided by law, and all bills of a local nature shall, before being introduced into the General Assembly, be pub¬ lished by one insertion in at least one newspaper in such county or counties as may be affected thereby. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance No. 256, by Mr. Henderson (Pike): To establish a Department of Agriculture. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That a Department of Agriculture be' created and estab¬ lished under the management and control of a public officer, to be known as the Commissioner of Agriculture who must be a practi¬ cal and experienced agriculturist, and whose salary shall not ex¬ ceed the sum of $2,000 annually, to be paid monthly. That all moneys received by the Department of Agriculture from fees for licenses, for sales of fertilizer tags, from fees for registration of lands for sale, or from any source whatsoever, must be paid into the State Treasury monthly, and such moneys must be entered upon the books of the Treasurer to the credit of the general fund of the State; and the expenses of maintaining the Agricultural Department of the State, as well as the salary of the Commissioner of Agriculture, shall be paid out of the general fund of the State, as may be provided by law. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance 257, by Mr. Henderson. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 335 Amending Section 5 of Article XIII applying to public school fund. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled ; That Section 5 of Article XIII be amended so as to read as follows: The income arising from the sixteenth section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund, and the funds enumerated in sections three and four of this article, shall be distributed for the equal benefit of the children throughout the State, between the ages of 7 and 21 years, and such other money as the General Assembly shall pro¬ vide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools in such proportion between the children of school age as may here&fter be provided by law. Referred to Educational Committee. Resolution No. 106, by Mr. Hinson: Resolved, That this convention shall not raise, reduce or fix the compensation of any judicial officer of this State. But it shall be made the duty of the legislature to increase the salaries of the justices of the Supreme Court, not to exceed $5,000 per annum, whenever the financial condition of the State will justify such in¬ crease. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Resolution No. 107, by Mr. Hinson: Resolved, That this convention shall not raise, reduce or fix the compensation of any executive officer but it shall be made the duty of the legislature to increase the salary of the Governor, not to exceed $5,000 per annum, whenever the financial condition of the State will justify such increase. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Mr. Hodges—I yield my call to Mr. Weakley of Lauderdale. Ordinance No. 258, by Mr. Weakley: To amend Section 4 of Article XI of the Constitution of the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 4 of Article XI of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama be amended so as to read as follows: 4. The General Assembly shall not have the power to levy in any one year a greater rate of taxation than one-half of one per- centum on the value of the taxable property within this State, Pro¬ vided that to pay the interest on or to provide a sinking fund for the payment of the principal of the State debt, and additional tax 336 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of one-fourth of one percentum may be levied and collected in each year, and said additional tax when collected shall be used for no other purpose. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 259, by Mr. Hood: An ordinance to establish a Court of Appeals and declare the jurisdiction thereby. Judicial department. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled : (1) That a Court of App’eals be and is hereby established to consist of a Chief Justice and at least two associate justices. (2) That said Court of Appeals shall have appellate jurisdic¬ tion only, which shall be co-extensive with the State, under such restrictions and regulations, not repugnant to this constitution, as may from time to time, be prescribed by law; Provided, that said court shall have power to issue writs of injunction, habeas corpus, quo warranto and such other remedial writs as may be necessary to give it a general superintendence and control of inferior juris¬ diction in all matters and cases in which said' court has or would have appellate jurisdiction. (3) That said Court of Appeals shall have final and exclu¬ sive appellate jurisdiction of all appeals of criminal cases and, until otherwise modified or changed by the General Assembly of the State, all common law civil case wherein the amount in con¬ troversy does not exceed $1,000, except in actions for the recovery of possession of real property and in cases in which the public revenue of the State, any county municipal corporation or other political subdivision of the State or any county thereof is involved, of which the Supreme Court shall alone have appellate jurisdic¬ tion; Provided, that in cases that involve the construction or ap¬ plication of the constitution of the United States the constitution of the State of Alabama, or any law of the United States, or in any case in which the constitutionality of any law of the State of Alabama is drawn in question, or in any case in which the con¬ stitution or any law of the State of Alabama is claimed to be in contravention of the Constitution of the United States, in cases in which said Court of Appeals is not unanimous in the rendition of any order or judgment, and in cases in which said Court of Appeals is in conflict with the Supreme Court of this State in the enunciation of any legal principle or proposition of law upon which it bases any order or judgment, any such case may be removed to the Supreme Court of this State ior review by that court by a writ of error which may be granted by any justice of said Supreme Court upon application made by the party aggrieved and a proper CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 337 and sufficient showing therefor, and the judgment or decree of the Supreme Court in such case shall be final and conclusive. (4) That said Court of Appeals shall be held at the seat of government and such other places as may be designated and pro¬ vided by law. (5) That the justices of said Court of Appeals shall hold of¬ fice for a term of four years and shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State; Provided, however, that the Governor of the State shall forthwith, upon the adoption of this constitution, ap¬ point a Chief Justice and two associate justices of said court, who shall hold office until the next succeeding State election for the election of State officials, at which election their successors shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State. (6) That there shall be a clerk of said Court of Appeals who shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State, whose term of office shall be four years and w'ho shall be placed upon a salary, provided be may receive such fees as may be fixed by said Court of Appeals from the date of his appointment until the first meeting of the General Assembly of the State, and provided further that the Governor of the State shall forthwith upon the adoption of this constitution appoint a clerk of said court, who shall hold office until the next succeeding State election for the election of State officials, at which time his successor shall be elected by the quali¬ fied voters of the State. (7) That there shall be a reporter of said Court of Appeals who shall be appointed by said court and whose term of office shall be at the pleasure of said court. (8) That the salary of the justices of said Court of Appeals shall not be less than $3,600 each per year. (9) That all laws, and parts of laws not applying to the Su¬ preme Court of the State or to any official thereof, and not incon¬ sistent with this constitution, shall apply to said Court of Appeals and the officials thereof, so far as applicable, until modified or changed by law. Sec. 2. Be it further ordained. That immediately upon the organization of said Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court shall transfer to said Court of Appeals all cases pending in said Supreme Court of which said Court of Appeals has jurisdiction under this constitution, together with the records and all papers and docu¬ ments pertaining thereto, unless it be a case in which the Supreme Court has prepared an opinion and is ready to render a judgment. In all such cases the Supreme Court shall have jurisdiction for the purpose of rendering judgments. Referred to the Committee on Judiciary. 338 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. INGE—I yield my call to Judge Robinson: Ordinance 260, by Mr, Robinson: To amend Sections 1 and 3 of Article VIII of the Constitu¬ tion of Alabama. Be it ordained, That Sections I and 3 of Article VIII of the Constitution of Alabama be amended, so as to read as follows: 1. Every male citizen of the United States who is 21 years old or upwards, possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the peo¬ ple, except as hereinafter provided: First—He shall have resided in the State at least one year, in the County for three months, and in the precinct or ward for thirty days immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote: Provided, that the General Assembly may prescribe a longer or shorter residence in any pre¬ cinct in any county or in any ward in any incorporated city or town having a population of more than five thousand inhabitants, but in no case to exceed three months; and provided, that no sol¬ dier, sailor or marine in the military or naval service of the United States shall acquire a residence by being stationed in this State. Second—He shall have paid on or before the first day of January of the year in which he offers to vote, all poll taxes which may be legally required of him for the next two preceding years. 3. The following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote or hold office: First—Those who are disqualified to vote at the time of the adopting of this Constitution. Second—Those who are idiots or insane. Third—Those who shall have been convicted of treason, embezzlement of public funds, malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery selling or for a consideration disposing of his vote in any election authorized by law, the unlawful sale of intoxicating liquors, assault and battery upon the person of his wife or other crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. Any person who shall sell or for a consideration dispose of his vote in any State, County, municipal or primary election, held in this State under the laws of this State, shall be guilty of a misde¬ meanor and on conviction shall be fined not exceeding ten dollars. And justices of the peace, and other officers who are ex-officio justices of the peace, shall have jurisdiction to try persons charged with this offense, concurrent with the circuit, city and county courts. And all persons charged with said offense shall have the same right of appeal and trial by jury as is provided by law for other cases of misdemeanor. And all persons may be required to testify on the trial of such cases, but, if the testimony of any wit¬ ness discloses the fact that he has committed an offense in con¬ nection with the offense charged, no prosecution shall be had against him for said offense. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 339 Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. Resolution No. 108, by Mr. Jones of Hale: Be it resolved, That whereas the people of Alabama have been living under the present Constitution for the past twenty-five years, and have found and do find, that the said Constitution meets practically all the requirements requisite to the security of life, liberty and property, with the one exception, viz., that the negro is allowed to vote. And, whereas, the people of Alabama would probably rather bear the ills of the present Constitution than fly to those they know not of—except in the matter referred to. Be it therefore resolved. That the Committee on Suffrage and Elections be requested and instructed to report to this Convention within the next five days an ordinance or ordinances looking to the disfranchisement of the negro. Be it further resolved. That this Convention then be allowed five additional days within which to discuss such ordinance or ordinances, so reported by said Committee and that then a final vote shall be taken on such ordinance or ordinances. Be it further resolved. That after such vote is taken by the Convention that this Convention do then adjourn sine die whether said Convention has agree on a suffrage clause or not. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 261, by Mr. Jones of Montgomery: An ordinance to promote speedy decision of causes in the Su¬ preme Court. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : The Governor, whenever so requested by the Judges of the Supreme Court in writing, shall appoint not more than two special justices of said court who shall be commissioned and serve for such time as the judges of the Supreme Court may recommend, for the decision of such cases, submitted prior to their appointment, as the judges of said court may designate; and such special judges shall receive for the time they serve the same compensation as the regular judges of the Supreme Court. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Resolution No. 109, by Mr. Jones (Montgomery): For an additional section to the declaration of rights, concern¬ ing the quarantine and police power. 340 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolved, That the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights be directed to report for the consideration of the con¬ vention an additional section to the Declaration of Rights, in sub¬ stance as follows: That no person shall be compelled to exile himself from the State in time of epidemic or pestilential diseases, to obtain a refuge, if the authorities of any county in the State are willing to receive him in their borders. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. Ordinance No. 262, by Mr. Jones (Montgomery): To provide for a Board of Conciliation. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, that a permanent Board of Conciliation, for the adjust¬ ment of differences between employer and employes engaged in mining, manufacturing and transportation, or other lawful in¬ dustry, is hereby constituted, to consist of the Governor, Lieuten¬ ant-Governor and Attorney-General, to which may be added in each case coming before it, two citizens of this or some other State of this Union, to be appointed by the Governor. The Board, in its discretion, may propose arbitration before it of any such dispute whenever it deems proper; and, in its discretion, may hear such disputes when requested by either or both parties. In any case submitted, the Board shall pass on the merits and recommend in a written award or finding what ought to be done to adjust such differences. The Board may compel the production of papers and attendances of witnesses, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law. Its judgment, or award, shall be advisory merely, unless both parties have voluntarily submitted the matter to the Board and agreed in advance, in writing, to perform the award. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 263 by Mr. Jones (Wilcox) : An ordinance to amend Section 3, Article VIII of the Consti¬ tution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in cbnvention as¬ sembled, that Section 3, Article VIII, of the present Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: The following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote or hold office: First—Those who shall have been convicted of any crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary or of malfeasence CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 341 in office, or bribery, or larceny, or embezzlement, or fraud in any election in this State, general, special or primary, or any one who has ever sold his vote or bought the vote of another. Second—Those who cannot read intelligent!}", or understand when read to them any section of the Constitution of this State. Third—Those who have not paid a poll tax of $2.00 on or be¬ fore the first day of January of the year that such person may of¬ fer to register or vote, and also the poll tax that may be due by them for preceding years, if any. Fourth—Those who are idiots or insane. Provided, That Subdivision 2 shall not apply to any male citi¬ zen of the United States who served in the army or navy of the United States in any war with a foreign power, or in the Indian wars, or in the war between the States, or to any male citizen of the United States who served in the army or navy of the Confed¬ erate States in the war between the States nor shall said subdi¬ vision apply to the descendants of said persons who served in the army or navy of the United States or of the Confederate States; provided, that after the expiration of ten years from the adoption of this Constitution, the descendants of persons who served in the army or navy of the United States or of the Confederate States, who may offer to register, shall not be permitted to do so unless they can read intelligently or understand, when read to them, any section of the Constitution. Fifth—^There is hereby created a Board of Registrars for every precinct in this State, to consist of three members, each of whom shall be bona fide resident of the precinct in which he is appointed or elected, whose duty it shall be to register such persons in their precincts as may be entitled thereto under the Constitution and laws of this State. Such registrars shall be appointed by the Judge of Probate of their counties, and shall hold their office until the first general election after the ratification of this Constitution. That at such general election the registrars shall be elected for the term of four years, by the qualified voters of their precincts, and no registrar shall succeed himself, or hold any other office, except that of Notary Public or Justice of the Peace, while filling the office of registrar. The Judge of Probate may fill any va¬ cancy in their respective counties in the office of registrar. The registrars appointed in the several counties of this State by the Judges of Probate and those thereafter elected, shall, before en¬ tering upon the discharge of their duties, take the official oath as prescribed by this Constitution. The Boards of Registrars in the different precincts in this State shall open books for registering the qualified voters of this State, on the first Monday in February, 1902, and three weeks’ notice of said registration must be given in some newspaper published in the county, by the Judges of Pro- 342 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS bate of the respective counties in this State. The Boards of Regis¬ trars shall not continue the registering of voters longer than fif¬ teen days in February, 1902, and they shall be entitled to such compensation therefor as may be fixed by the Court of County Commissioners of their respective counties. They shall have the right to examine, on oath, any person who may apply to them to register, and also to examine other witnesses on oath as to whether or not the person who makes application to register is legally en¬ titled to do so. Any person who may not be permitted to register by the Board of Registrars of the precinct in which he resides, or by a majority of such board, shall have the right of appeal, at any time, within thirty days thereafter to the Circuit Court of the county of his residence. Sixth—Neither the State nor the county shall have a lien on the property of any resident of this State for the collection of the poll tax, nor shall the collection of the same be enforced by law. Seventh—The Commissioners’ Courts shall have published in some newspaper in their respective counties, in March, 1902, and every two years thereafter, a certified copy of all registered vot¬ ers in their respective counties. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance No. 264, by Mr. Jones (Wilcox) ; An ordinance to amend Section 2, Article X. of the Constitu¬ tion. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 2, Article X. of the present Constitution be amended as follows: That the word “eighty,” in the first line of said Section be stricken out, and the words “one hundred and sixty” be substituted therefor. Referred to Committee on Exemption. Ordinance No. 265, by Mr. Jones (Wilcox) ; An ordinance to amend Section 1 of Article XIII. of the Con¬ stitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article XIII, of the present Constitu¬ tion be amended by striking out the word “equal” before the word “benefit” in the second line of said section, and by adding at the close of said section the following words: And such separate schools for the education of the white children, and for the educa¬ tion of the children of citizens of African descent, shall be kept open the same number of scholastic months. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 343 Referred to Committee on Education. MR. WATTS—I am requested by Mr. Lomax of Montsfom- ery, to ask leave of absence for today and tomorrow on account of his being detained at Tuscaloosa, and for Mr. Macdonald today. THE PRESIDENT—Leave of absence has been obtained for Mr. Macdonald. Unless there is objection leave of absence will be granted to Mr. Lomax. MR. KNIGHT—I yield my call to Mr. Rogers (Lowndes). Ordinance No. 266, by Mr. Rogers (Lowndes) : To amend Section 1 of Article XI. of the Constitution by strik¬ ing out from and including the words, “provided, however,” and adding the following: There shall be collected from every voter between the age of 21 and SO years, not exempt by law, a poll tax of $1.50, which shall be applied exclusively in and of the public schools in the counties in which it is levied and collected; the amount collected from citi¬ zens of the Caucasion race to be applied to white schools, and the amount collected from citizens of African descent to be applied to the colored schools. That the said tax shall be paid between the 1st day of Janu¬ ary and the 30th day of January of each year and the Tax Col¬ lector shall give his certificate to each citizen paying said tax. That no citizen shall be allowed to vote who has not paid said tax who is under 50 years of age, and no exempt by law. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 267, by Mr. Ledbetter: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama: First—That the of¬ fice of Examiner of Public Accounts be and the same is hereby continued, said officer being appointed by the Governor. Second—That in addition to the duties already imposed upon said Examiner he be made State Bank Examiner. Third—That the General Assembly shall be authorized and directed to prescribe the duties of said Examiner, delegate to him certain powers, and make necessary requirements of State banks. Fourth—That by State banks is meant any bank, banking company, savings bank or other corporation organized under the laws of the State of Alabama, conducting or doing a banking business. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 268, by Mr. Ledbetter: 344 OFFICIAL, PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Probate Judges shall be elected every four years by the qualified voters of their respective counties and shall not be eligible for re-election to that office or to any other office in their respective counties during a period of two years after the expira¬ tion of their term. That the Probate Judges shall receive the fees of their respective offices to the amount of not exceeding $2,500 per annum, and that the fees in excess of this amount shall be turned into the county treasury. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 269, by Mr. Long (Walker): Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That that Section 6 of Article XI. of the Constitlition be amended so as to read as follows; Sec. 6. The property of private corporations, associations and individuals of this State, shall forever be taxed at the same rate; Provided, this section shall not apply to institutions or enterprises devoted exclusively to religious, educational or charitable pur¬ poses. Provided, further, that the General Assembly of Alabama, for the purpose of encouraging cotton manufacturing shall have power to exempt from all State, county or city taxes for a period not exceeding ten years, all new cotton mills, built after the rati¬ fication of this Constitution; provided, the land on which the cot¬ ton mills are built shall be assessed for taxation kt the same rate as the adjoining or contiguous lands. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Ordinance 270, by Mr. Long; An ordinance to prescribe the qualifications of electors and to better provide for fair elections in the State of Alabama. ’ Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Article VIII of the Constitution be amended so as to contain the following: Every male citizen of the United States and every male citi¬ zen of foreign birth who may have legally declared his intention of becoming a citizen of one of the United States, before he offers to vote, who is 21 years old or upwards, who shall have resided in this State two years and in the County and in the beat, precinct or ward for one year next, immediately preceding the election in which he offers to vote and who shall have paid a poll tax of $1.50 on or before January 1st of the year in which he offers to vote at any election and who shall have paid all taxes, including all poll taxes and all taxes upon real estate or personal property for all years with 8 per cent interest due thereon, and who shall own and pay taxes upon not less than $3(X) worth of real estate or personal CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 345 property and be able to read and write in the English language shall be a qualified elector and may vote in the precinct or ward of his actual residence and not elsewhere, unless disqualified by being convicted of treason, embezzlement of public funds, mal¬ feasance in office, larceny, bribery or other crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, or unless an idiot or lunatic; provided, that all men or their male descendants, 21 years of age or upwards who have fought in any of the American or European wars prior to the adoption of this Constitution, shall only be re¬ quired to pay all poll taxes on or before January 1st of each year as hereinabove set forth, in order to become qualified electors in this State, and only such persons coming under any of the pro¬ visions herein above set forth without regard to race, color or pre¬ vious condition of servitude, shall have a right to vote at any elec¬ tion, State, County or municipal in this State. That all poll taxes shall be paid to the tax collector in each County in this State and by him turned over to the probate judge of each County on or before the first of January of each year and that the probate judge shall make an alphabetical list by beats, wards or each voting precinct in the County a list of all persons who have paid their poll taxes, which said alphabetical list shall be kept as a book of public record in the office of the judge of probate, and shall be the true registration list of the county for that year and on or before the 20th of January of each year the probate judge shall furnish a copy to the State treasurer a list of all such persons who have paid their taxes for that year, together with all his remittance to cover the same in full. And it shall be the duty of the probate judge to furnish a copy to each of the man¬ agers of any election held in this State, whether State, County, municipal, primary or otherwise, a list of all persons residing in the beat, ward or voting precinct who have all .paid their poll tax on or before the 1st of January of that year and only those whose names appear upon the list shall be entitled to vote. At any election held, either primary or otherwise, if any more voters are returned by the managers of any precinct, beat, ward or voting place than appears upon the registration list so furnished them, then the said box shall be invalid and no vote therein contained shall be counted and the manager of said election shall be guilty of a high misdemeanor and be fined not less than $250 nor more than $1,000. Should any probate judge make a return of any election to any State officer of a greater number of votes than names as con¬ tained upon the registration list so made and furnished by him as required by law to the State treasurer, he shall also be guilty of a high misdemeaner and shall forfeit his office, and shall also be fined by any court of competent jurisdiction in a sum not exceed¬ ing one thousand dollars. 346 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Referred to Committee on Suffrage and elections. Mr. Bulger here took the Chair. Ordinance No. 271, by Mr. Lowe of Jefferson: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section 12 of Article VI of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows; The Chief Justice and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court, Judges of the Circuit Court, Probate Courts and Chancellors shall be elected by the qualified electors of the State, Circuits, Counties and Chancery Divisions for which such courts may be established, on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, 1904, and on said day and said month every eight years thereafter; provided the legislature may change the time of such election to any other day in said years. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 272, by Mr. Lowe of Jefferson. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled that Section 15 of Article VI of the Constitution shall read as follows: The Chief Justice and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court, Circuit Judges, Chancellors and Probate Judges shall hold office for the term of eight years, and until their successors are elected or appointed and qualified; and the right of such Judges and Chancellors to hold their offices for the full term hereby pre¬ scribed shall not be affected by any change hereafter made by law in any circuit, or county in the mode or time of election. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Resolution 110, by Mr. Lowe: Resolved, that it is the sense of this Convention, that the State. County and Congressional elections should be held upon the same day. Provided, however, that the General Assembly may prescribe separate and different dates for holding such elections. Referred to the Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution 111, bv Mr. McMillan: Be it resolved by this Convention, that it is the sense of this Convention that any ordinance adopted prescribing a poll tax qual¬ ification upon the right of suffrage shall include in its provisions a section exempting all officers and men of the Alabama National Guard from its operation. Referred to the Committee on Taxation. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 347 Ordinance No. 273, by Mr. Parker (Elmore): To amend Article XVI of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article XVI of the Constitution be and the same is hereby amended to read as follows: Section 1. No person holding an office of profit under the United States except postmasters, whose annual salary does not exceed $200, shall, during his continuation in such office, hold any office of profit under this State, nor shall any person hold two of¬ fices of profit, at one and the same time under this State, whether such offices be created by this Constitution or by legislative en¬ actment. Be it further ordained that Article XVI be and the same is hereby further amended by adding the following, as Section 2: Sec. 2. That any person who accepts a second office during the term of an office to which he has been previously elected or appointed, shall, ipso facto, forfeit and vacate such first office, provided that the provisions of this article shall not apply to the offices of Justice of the Peace, Constable, Notar}^ Public and Com¬ missioner of Deeds. Referred to Committee Amending Constitution and Miscel¬ laneous Provisions. Resolution No. 112, by Mr. Parker (Elmore) : Whereas, it is the well settled policy of this State that the traffic in vinous, spirituous and malt liquors is a privilege and not a right of the citizen, and whereas, the ample and unrestricted au¬ thority of the General Assembly under the present Constitution of Alabama to restrict and police the buying and selling of vinous, spirituous and malt liquors has been in the past, a bulwark of safe¬ ty to society and the individual citizen against the evils of intem¬ perance : Now therefore, be it resolved, That it is the sense of this con¬ vention that no ordinance shall be adopted that will abridge or de¬ stroy the power of the General Assembly of the State of Alabama to restrict, regulate and control the sale of vinous, spirituous and malt liquors. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. MR. OATES—I was called out just at the time my name was called. I ask unanimous consent to offer two resolutions. Leave was given. Ordinance No. 274, by Mr. Oates: 348 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the People of Alabama on convention as¬ sembled. That Article VIII, Section — of the Constitution be amended so as to read as follows: Section 1. Every male citizen of the United States who is 21 years old or upwards possessing the following qualifications shall be an elector and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people except as hereinafter provided, First, he shall have resided in the State one year, in the county three months, and in the pre¬ cinct or ward for thirty days immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote; and for the purpose of voting no person shall be deemed to have gained or lost a residence by reason of his presence or absence while in the service of the United States, nor while engaged in the navigation of the waters of the State, or of the high seas, nor while a student in any institution of learning. No soldier, sailor or marine in the military or naval service of the United States shall acquire a residence by being stationed in this State. There shall be a Board of Registrars composed of three in¬ telligent and discreet men as nearly non-partisan as practicable not more than two of whom shall belong to the same political party and who shall hold a session of at least three days in each precinct of the county for the registration of voters and the registration books shall be kept open at the court house of the county. All elections by the people shall be by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. Section 2—That the Governor shall, with the advice and con¬ sent of the Senate, appoint a board of registrars for each county whose term of office shall be four years, and neither of them shall be eligible to any other office of profit during the term for which he shall have been appointed. The legislature shall fix their com¬ pensation, and regulate their sessions. That such Board, and each of the members thereof, shall have power to administer oaths, and every person offering to register as a voter shall take the following oath: “I_, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I am 21 years old (or I will be before the next election in this county) and that I will have resided in this State one year, in the county six months and am now in good faith a resident of the same, and that I am not disqualified from voting by reason of having been convicted of any crime named in the constitution of this State as a disqualification to be an elector; that I will truly answer all questions propounded to me concern¬ ing my antecedents so far as they relate to my right to vote, and also as to my residence before my citizenship in this county; that I will faithfully support the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Alabama and will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. So help me God.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 349 And any persons taking of such oath falsely as to any material part, shall upon conviction, be guilty of perjury and be imprison¬ ed in the penitentiary. That any person offering to register as a voter within the time allowed by law who shall be rejected by said Board of Registrars shall within twenty days thereafter have the right of appeal without prepayment of cost to any circuit judge or judge of any city court who shall hear the case without delay, and if of opinion from the evidence that the appellant is entitled to vote, such judge must order the Board of Registrars to enroll his name as a legal voter, and everyone registered therein, shall vote in the precinct or ward in which he resides. The following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote or hold office: First—Those who shall have been convicted of treason, em¬ bezzlement. malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery or other crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. Second—Those who are idiots or insane, nor anyone who is of notoriously bad character, a tramp, professional gambler or pauper, or who has sold his or bought the vote of another, or been convicted of any other fraud or bribery to procure his own elec¬ tion to any office or that of another person, and those who have not three months prior to any election paid all poll tax and all other taxes due from him. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Election. The President here resumed the chair. Ordinance No. 275, by Mr. Oates: To improve the judicial system of the State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled : First—That at the expiration of the term of office of the pres¬ ent Circuit Judges, there shall be elected or appointed a Circuit Judge for each Senatorial District in the State. Second—That said court shall be always open for the transac¬ tion of business, and whenever there are causes in such courts for trial, the judges thereof shall, after notice given to the parties, proceed with the trial of the same with or without a jury, as may be prescribed by law. Third—That said Circuit J udges shall have and exercise equity jurisdiction, as may be prescribed by law. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Mr. Phillips—I yield my call to Mr. Whiteside. 350 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 276 by Mr. Whiteside: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That no person, firm or corporation, shall construct or operate any railroad, car line, telegraph or telephone line on the streets of any town, city or village, under any franchise granted by the Legislature, or by the municipal authorities of such town, city, or village, without first paying to the owner of the property adjacent to such street, all just and reasonable damages that may result to such adjacent property by the construction and operation of such railroad, car line, telegraph or telephone line. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Resolution No. 113, by Mr. Whiteside: Whereas, It is apparent that this Convention will not be able to complete its labors within the fifty days for which it is authoriz¬ ed to draw pay under the act calling the Convention; And, whereas. The present Constitution provides that “No bill shall be passed giving any extra compensation to any public officer—nor shall any officer of the State bind the State to the payment of any sum of money but by authority of law,” therefore be it Resolved, That the question of the payment of the expenses of this Convention beyond the said fifty days be referred to the Judiciary Committee, with instructions to report thereon at an early date. Resolved, further, that it is the sense of this Convention that no per diem be paid to the delegates of this Convention beyond the fifty days named in the act calling the Convention. Referred to the Committee on Judiciary. MR. REYNOLDS (Chilton)—I yield my call to Mr. Watts of Montgomery. Ordinance No. 277, by Mr. Watts: To add a Section to Article III., as follows: Section —. The acceptance of office in one of the three de¬ partments, Judicial, Legislative or Executive, shall vacate of it¬ self and at once any and all offices held by such person in either of the other departments. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 278, by Mr. Watts: To amend Sections 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 21, Article I. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 351 Be it ordained, That Section 11 be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 11. That no person shall be debarred from prosecuting* or defending before any tribunal in this State, by himself or coun¬ sel, any civil cause to which he is a party, or from prosecuting any criminal case in which he is the prosecutor. That Section 12 shall be so amended as to read as follows: Sec. 12. That the right of trial by jury shall remain inviolate, but courts for reasons, fixed by law may discharge juries from the consideration of any case, and no person shall gain any advantage by reason of such discharge of a jury. That Section 13 be amended so as to read as follows; Sec. 13. In all prosecutions for libel or defamation the truth of the charge may be given in evidence, and the jury shall de¬ termine the law and the facts under the direction of the court. That Section 14 be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 14. That all courts shall be open, and that every person, for any injury done him in his lands, goods, person or reputation, shall have a remedy by due process of law, and right and justice shall be administered without sale, denial or delay; provided, that in all suits or proceedings for divorce, the party instituting the same may be by law required to give security for the costs of said suits or proceedings. That Section 15 shall be so amended as to read as follows: Sec. 15. That the State of Alabama shall never be made a defendant in any court of law or equity, except that where the State is a tenant in common or joint owner with an individual, the individual may file suit for partition or sale for partition, but in suits or proceedings commenced by the State, set-offs may be pleaded, and in equity suits commenced in the State, cross bills asking affirmative relief may be entertained. That Section 21 shall be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 21. That no person shall be imprisoned for failing to dis¬ charge any obligation for which he is only civilly bound. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. Ordinance No. 279, by Mr. Watts: To amend Sections 9, 10, 12, 17, 25, Article VI, Be it ordained, That Section 9 be amended so as to read as follows: 352 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 9. The General Assembly shall have power to establish in each county within the State a Court of Probate, with gfeneral jurisdiction for the panting of letters testamentary, and of admin¬ istration and for orphans’ business, provided, that whenever any court having equity powers has taken jurisdiction of the settle¬ ment of any estate, said equity court shall have power to do all things necessary for the settlement of said estate, including the appointment and removal of administrators, executors, guardians and trustees. That Section 10 be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 10. The Judges of the Supreme and Appellate Equity Courts, Circuit Courts, Probate Courts, Inferior Courts established and Chancellors, shall, at stated times, receive for their service a compensation which shall not be diminished or increased, during their official terms, but they shall receive no fees or perquisites or hold any office except judicial offices) of profit or trust under this State or any subdivision thereof, or of the United States, or any other power, during the term for which they have been elect¬ ed; provided, that the compensation of the Judges of the Supreme and Appellate Equity Courts shall not be fixed at less than $4,000 per annum, and the compensation of Judges of Circuit Courts and Chancellors shall not be fixed at less than $3,000 per annum. That Section 12 be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 12. All Judges of the Circuit, Chancery, City or Probate and other courts, shall be elected by the qualified electors of the State or sub-division thereof for which said courts are established, at such times as may be prescribed by law, and the term of office of each of said judges shall be eight years. That Section 17 be amended by adding the following: Sec. 17. But in case of the creation of a new judge or chan¬ cellor, said judge or chancellor shall be elected at a special or gen¬ eral election, and shall hold his office until the terms of other judges or chancellors expire and until his successor is elected and qualified. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 280, by Mr. J. W. A. Sanford: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That a bureau of Industrial Resources be and the same is hereby established, which shall be under the management of an officer who shall be known as the Commissioner of Industrial Re¬ sources. He shall be chosen b}'- the electors of the State at the same time and place at which the people shall elect representatives in the General Assembly, and his term of office shall be of the same duration as that of the Governor of the State. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 353 Be it further ordained that the Commissioner of Industrial Resources shall collect and condense statistical information con¬ cerning the productive industrialism of the State, and shall make a careful and accurate report annually, relative to the agricultural mining, manufacturing and mechanical pursuits of the people and perform such other duties as the General Assembly may require. Referred to the Committee on Executive Department. Resolution No. 114, by Mr. J. W. A. Sanford: Whereas, in eight States and Territories of the Union the eagle alone, or in combination with other figures form the great seal, and whereas the great seal of this State should be distinctive and symbolic of some event in its history, or of some peculiarity in its topography, or of some characteristic of its people, therefore be it Resolved, that a Committee of nine, one from each Congres¬ sional District, be appointed by the President of the Convention to suggest and recommend to the Convention a design for a great seal of Alabama, which shall be different from the seal of any other State or Territory MR. SAMFORD—I move that the rules be suspended so that that resolution may be passed immediately. A vote being taken the Convention refused to suspend the rules. THE PRESIDENT—^The resolution will be referred to the committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 281, by Mr. H. C. Selheimer: An ordinance relating to the Judiciary in counties having a population of forty thousand or more. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : That the General Assembly shall have the power to consoli¬ date into one court, with as many divisions and judges and clerks thereof as may be deemed necessary, all the courts of record m any county having a population of forty thousand or more, except the Probate Court, and including the Circuit and Chancery Courts of said County, and to regulate and prescribe the practice and pro¬ cedure in said court. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 282, by Mr. Selheimer: To exclude from any limitation upon the indebtedness of rnu- nicipal corporations, obligations or bonds issued for street im¬ provement, etc. 354 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in Convention as¬ sembled : That oblig-ations incurred and bonds issued by municipal cor¬ porations to procure means to pay for street or sidewalk improve¬ ments, or storm-water or sanitary sewers, the cost of which is to be assessed against the property abutting on the improvement or drained by the sewers and obligations and bonds secured by mort¬ gage on real estate owned by the municipal corporation, shall not be included in any limitation imposed upon the power of munici¬ pal corporations to incur indebtedness. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 283, by Mr, Sentell: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. That Section 7 of Article XIII be amended by adding at the end of said section the following: “And there shall be elected by the qualified voters of each County, a County Superintendent of Education, whose power, duties and compensation shall be fixed by law, and whose term of office shall be four years and until his successor is elected and qualified.” Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance 284, by Mac. A. Smith: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 23 of Article IV, of the present Constitu¬ tion of said State, be amended so as to read as follows: No special or local law shall be enacted for the benefit of in¬ dividuals or corporations, in cases which are or can be provided for by a general law, or where the relief sought can be given by any court of this State; nor shall the operation of any general law be suspended by the General Assembly for the benefit of any individual, corporation or association. And any law which does not apply to all the inhabitants, or to all the territory of the State, shall be held to be a special or local law within the meaning of this constitution. Referred to Committee on Local Legislation. Ordinance 285, by Mr. Mac. A. Smith. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly of Alabama shall have no power to delegate to individuals or private corporations any au¬ thority to levy taxes. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 355 Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance 286, by Mr. Mac. A. Smith. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the State of Alabama shall not contract any public debt which the ordinary revenues of the State shall be inadequate to meet at the maturity thereof. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution No. 115, by Mi'. Mac. A. Smith (Autauga): Resolved, That it is the sense of this convention that a pro¬ vision shall be inserted in the proposed new constitution for the State of Alabama limiting the rate of taxation by State, counties and municipalities, and that such rate of taxation shall not exceed the rate now fixed by the present construction but a lower rate shall be fixed if practicable. Referred to the Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 287, by Mr. Thompson (Bibb): An ordinance to amend Section 5 of Article XIII of the present constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5 of Article XIII of the present constitu¬ tion be amended so as to read as follows: The income arising from the Sixteenth Section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund, until it is called for by the United States Government, and the funds enumerated in Section 3 and 4 of this Article together with one-third of all of the revenues of the State, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the common schools of this State, and the General Assembly shall not decrease the funds above pro¬ vided, but may by a vote of two-thirds of the members thereof in¬ crease the same by such sums as the condition of the treasury will warrant, which school fund shall be apportioned to the counties in proportion to number of children in such county within school age, and the sum so apportioned to the counties shall be divided among the children of such county as the best interests of the State may require. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance No. 288, by Mr. Thompson (Bibb) : An ordinance to provide for the election of Solicitors and county officers and prescribe the term of office. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled : 356 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Section 1, At the election for State officers in 1904, and each four years thereafter, there shall be elected by the qualified voters of each Judicial Circuit in Alabama a Solicitor, who shall be learn¬ ed in the law, and who shall, at the time of his election and during his continuance in office, reside in the circuit for which he is chos¬ en, and whose term of office shall be four years. Sec. 2. Be it further ordained. There shall be elected by the qualified voters of each county, at the same time as State officers are elected, a Judge of Probate, Clerk of the Circuit Court, Sheriff, Tax Collector, Tax Assessor, Treasurer, County Solicitor and Su¬ perintendent of Education, each for a term of four years. Sec. 3. None of the officers mentioned in this Article shall be eligible to any office whatsoever for two years next after the ex¬ piration of their terms above provided for, except Judges of Pro¬ bate and Superintendents of Education. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. MR. WILLIAMS (Elmore)—I yield my turn to Mr. Burns of Dallas. Resolution No. 116, by Mr. Burns (Dallas): Resolved, That ex-United States Senator James L. Pugh, ex- Governor Joseph J. Johnston, ex-Secretary of the Convention of 1875, Benj. H. Screws, and the seven surviving members of the last Constitutional Convention be allowed the privileges of the floor. Referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. SMITH—I desire to make a report for the Committee on Rules. The report was read as follows: The Committee on Rules reports that it has had under con¬ sideration Resolution No. 77, by Mr. Proctor, which reads as fol¬ lows : “Resolved, That the Committee on the Journal shall be en¬ titled to a clerk, to be appointed by the chairman, who shall re¬ ceive the same per diem as clerks of the other committees. “The said clerk shall, when not engaged with said committee, serve any other committee that may need a clerk, or serve the Secretary of this convention, when so required by him.” And reports favorably upon said resolution and recommends its adoption by this convention. On motion of Mr. Proctor, the report was adopted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 357 THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the call of the standing^ committees. The call was begun, but on motion of Mr. Williams (Ma¬ rengo) was dispensed with. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business is the call of special committees. THE CLERK—There are none. On motion of Mr. Boone, the convention then adjourned. CORRECTION In resolution No. 204, by Mr. Wilson (Washington) the word ‘'desire” should be “reside.” In proceedings of Tenth Day, at top of fourth column, there should be inserted the following: MR. BULGER—I raise the point of order on the objection of the gentleman from Montgomery that his objection comes too late—leave has already been granted. TWELFTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Wednesday, June 5, 1901. The convention was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Provence, as follows: O God, our Heavenly Father, it is again with glad and thank¬ ful hearts we come before Thee, to invoke Thy blessings. We thank Thee for all the blessings Thou hast so freely given us. The years have been full of Thy mercy and Thy love. We thank Thee that Thou hast cared for us and guarded us and helped us and given us so much to make life bright and happy and useful. We thank Thee that Thou didst so love the world as to give Thine only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, jjut should have everlasting life. We thank Thee for ev¬ erything Thou dost permit us to do for the advancement and for the glory and for the uplifting of our fellow men. We pray Thy blessings upon the session of this convention today, and grant that these, thy servants, who come from every quarter of the State may come with a deep sense of their respective responsibility and 358 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of the fflorious opportunities before them. Help them in all their deliberations, to be wise, earnest and faithful, laying aside all personal motives and all partisan spirit, striving together for those things that shall promote the interest of our State and of our peo¬ ple. We pray Thee that they may do the wisest and best things; that they may be guided by Thine own wisdom. Bless every member of the convention; bless all the homes from which they come. May Thy Holy Spirit keep charge over us in all our work, and use us for Thine own glory, for Jesus’s sake. Amen. MR. SANFORD—I rise to a question of personal privilege. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of privilege. MR. SANFORD—I find in The Advertiser of this morning, in speaking of the various resolutions and ordinances that were in¬ troduced on yesterday, it says that General Sanford of Montgom¬ ery seeks to have a committee raised to draft a new design for a State “steal,” instead of a State seal. (Laughter). I have re¬ ceived applications from two honest and honorable gentlemen for places in that organization. I assure them and you, that I have no such enterprise in the world on hand. (Laughter). THE PRESIDENT—^A very unfortunate typographical error. The Secretary called the roll, and 126 delegates responded. MR. SANFORD—I am requested by the Hon. James E. Cobb, who is sick, to ask leave of absence for him for today. The leave was granted. MR. HARRISON — I beg to ask leave of absence for Mr. Renfroe for today. The leave was granted. MR. ROGERS (Lowndes)—I request leave of absence for Mr. Ledbetter for two days. The leave was granted. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I ask leave of absence for today for Mr. Williams of Elmore, who is sick at his hotel. The leave was granted. MR. JACKSON—I desire to state that I was absent yester¬ day from the Convention on account of sickness. The leave was granted. MR. LOCKLIN—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Morrisette for three days, on account of sickness. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 15K)1 359 The leave was granted. MR. HOOD—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Davis of Etowah for today. The leave was granted. MR. SENTELL—I wish to ask leave of absence for myself for tomorrow. The leave was granted. MR. SANDERS—Mr. Henderson of Pike requests leave of absence for today. The leave was granted. MR. WEAKLEY—I desire to ask leave of absence for myself for tomorrow. The leave was granted. MR. MACDONALD—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Jones of Montgomery for today. The leave was granted. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the report of the committee on the journal. MR. PROCTOR—The stenographic report shows that or¬ dinance No. 276 referring to municipal corporations introduced by Mr. Whitesides, was referred to the Committee on Corpora¬ tions, when in fact it was referred to the Committee on Municipal Corporations. With that exception the Journal is correct. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has examined that question somewhat and thinks perhaps the stenographic report is correct. The Chair intended to refer it to the Committee oh Municipal Cor¬ porations, but the Journal Clerk and Stenographer both say it was referred to the Committee on Corporations, so I think possibly they are correct and is was improperly referred. The reference will be changed to Municipal Corporations. The report of the Committee on Journal was read, stating that the Journal was correct. On motion of Mr. Heflin of Randolph, the report was adopted. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I desire to make a report for the Committee on Rules. MR. BOONE—One moment. Mr. Chairman, I move that the reading of the Journal be dispensed with. 360 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—There is a standing^ rule that has been adopted by the Convention, that the reading of the Journal be dis¬ pensed with, unless the reading is demanded by some member. MR. BOONE—I withdraw the motion. The report of the Committee on Rules was submitted and read as follows: The Committees on Rules beg leave to report that they have had under consideration the resolutions hereinafter mentioned, and beg to report thereon as follows : The Committee reports adversely to resolution number 86, in¬ troduced by Mr. Long of Walker, and recommends that it be not adopted by the Convention. Said resolution reads as follows : Whereas, a resolution making an appropriation from the State Treasury of $70 a day for a stenographic report of the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention was passed by this body without an aye and nay vote, and Whereas, There are grave doubts as to the legality of such a proceeding, and Whereas, The stenographic reports as published show many errors, therefore. Be it resolved. That the President of this Convention be and he is hereby requested to immediately cancel the contract for stenographic report, after paying all the expenses by the State connected therewith, to the date of cancellation. The Committee reports favorably on resolution number 105, introduced by Mr. Searcy of Tuscaloosa, and recommends its adoption by the Convention. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That whereas this Convention has made a contract with Mr. Pat McGauly for stenographic reports of the proceed¬ ings of the Convention, wherein it was agreed to pay said Mc¬ Gauly seventy dollars for each working day of the Convention for such stenographic report, and whereas there is now no authori¬ ty in the law for the auditor to draw his warrant on the treasurer for payment of said stenographer, therefore. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in Convention assembled, that there is hereby appropriated a sum sufficient to pay whatsoever shall be due said stenographer according to said contract, and the auditor is hereby authorized and empowered to draw his warrant on the treasurer in favor of said stenographer for such sums as shall from time to time be certified to be due for such purpose by the President and Secretary of the Convention. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 The Committee reports back to the Convention resolution number 83, introduced by Mr. Pettus of Limestone, without recom¬ mendation on its part, for the action of the Convention. The Committee reports back to the Convention resolution number 87, introduced by Mr. Vaughan of Dallas, vyithout recom¬ mendation on its part, for the action of the Committee. The Committee reports back to the Convention resolution number 102, introduced by Mr. Henderson of Pike, without recom¬ mendation on its part for the action of the Convention. The Committee reports as a substitute for resolution number 97, introduced by Mr. Winn of Barbour, the following resolution, and recommends its adoption by the Convention. Resolved, That it is the sense of this Convention that each ordinance offered shall contain but one subject matter, which shall be clearly expressed in the title, so that the same may be properly referred to the appropriate committee. The Committe reports adversely to resolution number 101, in¬ troduced by Mr. Watts of Montgomery, and recommends that it be not adopted by the Convention, for the reason that its purpose is covered by rule number 47. Said resolution reads as follows: Resolved, That whenever either of the committees hereafter appointed, except the Committee on Rules, on Journal, and pro¬ curing ministers, is ready to report, the chairman thereof shall hand the said report to the Secretary of this Convention, who shall cause the said report to be printed and a copy thereof placed upon the desk of each member of the Convention before the said report is considered. 2. That when any such report comes up for consideration by the Convention, each section or paragraph of said report shall be considered separately. The Committee herewith returns to the Convention the reso¬ lutions herein-above referred to. By Mr. Smith—In connection with the report, I call attention to Rule No. 47. I desire by way of explanation to read that rule: Rule 47—When any ordinance is introduced it shall be read at length and be referred by the President without a vote being taken, unless otherwise ordered by a two-thirds vote of the Con¬ vention, to the appropriate committee. No ordinance shall be re¬ ported back from any committee until after the lapse of one entire legislative day. When any committee shall have reported to this Convention any article or section of the proposed constitution, said article or section shall again be read at length and three hun¬ dred copies thereof printed for the use of delegates; and such ar- 362 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tide or section shall lie on the table at least one day and until in regular order it shall be taken up for consideration by the Con¬ vention. I now move the adoption of the report of the Committee. MR. REESE—Mr. President, I desire to ask the gentleman from Mobile a question. Does that rule provide what shall be done in case there is a minority report? BY MR. deGRAFFENREID—There is another rule that does. THE PRESIDENT—There is a rule that requires that to be printed also. The Chair will call the attention of the gentle¬ man to rule 51 which covers that point. BY MR. WATTS—I admit that Rule 47 covers almost all of the gist of my resolution, but there is one part of it that Rule 47 does not cover, and that is, that when those reports are made and read, they shall be considered section by section, and it seems to me that unless there is some other rule to which the Committee can refer me, this Convention ought to adopt a rule which will require the reports of Committees to be considered section by section and not as a whole. If there is such a resolution, of course the Committee is right. Without yielding the floor I would like to ask in regard to the resolution offered by myself, what effect does the adoption of the report have on the resolution introduced by me? Under rule 47, does it have any regard to an adverse report. BY MR. SMITH (Mobile)—My understanding is, the report would simply carry that resolution to the Convention. That is the recommendation of the Rules Committee. It was of course ad¬ versely reported. MR. LONG (Walker)—Does it lay the adverse report over one day or indefinitely? MR. SMITH (Mobile)—The adoption of the report, I take it, would be concurring in the report of the Committee that it be not adopted. MR. LONG (Walker)—Mr. President, I move that the re¬ port of the Committee upon the resolution introduced by myself. No. 86, which seeks to abolish the contract for a stenographic re¬ port, be taken up and that the resolution be put upon its passage, if I can meet with a second, the Committee on Rules to the contrary notwithstanding. The motion was seconded. MR. OATES—I do not see how that motion is in order when the report of the Committee is before the House, and involves that very identical question. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 363 THE PRESIDENT—The question before the House is on the motion to adopt the report. MR. LONG (Walker)—I offer this as a substitute and I have met with a second. I think I have the floor. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Walker has the floor. What was the motion? The Chair has not heard the mo¬ tion. MR. LONG (Walker)—I move, and offer the motion as a substitute for the motion made by the Chairman of the Committee on Rules, that the report of the Committee on Resolution No. 86 be taken up, and the resolution be put upon its passage, the report of the Committee on Rules to the contrary notwithstanding. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman from Walker moves as a substitute—for the entire report, or that part only? MR. LONG (Walker)—No, sir; that part of the report which relates to Resolution No. 86. MR. OATES—Mr. President, the gentleman cannot offer it as a substitute, but he can move to amend as to that part. MR. LONG (Walker)—I am always thankful for informa¬ tion and I shall move then to amend. Not being a lawyer I am not so well posted. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Walker moves to amend that part of the report which refers to Resolution No. 86. To what extent does the gentleman move to amend? MR. LONG (Walker)—I move the adoption of Resolution No. 86. THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman put his motion in writing? MR. HARRISON—What is the question now before the Con¬ vention? THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Walker to amend the report of the Committee on Rules. MR. HARRISON—Mr. President, I move to lay that motion on the table. Seconded. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to a point of order. I had not yielded the floor, and notice was given on last Saturday that I would call up this resolution on last Monday, and, through re- 364 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS spect to members on this floor, I put the motion off until Wed¬ nesday. The world has been notified of the fact that we would take it up. THE PRESIDENT—The chair is of the opinion that the gentleman had not yielded the floor. The chair merely asked the gentleman to reduce the motion to writing. MR. LONG (Walker)—Now that this amendment is offered, I shall ask the ruling of the chair on the validity of the contract as originally made on May 24th, and call the attention of the chair to the fact that the Constitution of the State of Alabama says that no debt shall be contracted except by an aye and no vote, and I further call the attention of the chair to the fact that I called for the aye and no vote, which was denied. I further call atten¬ tion to the fact that there was no aye and no vote taken upon the resolution which was adopted, providing for this stenographic re¬ port, and I call for a ruling of the chair upon the validity of the contract as it now exists. MR. BROOKS—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. I under¬ stand that the chairman of the Rules Committee has made a re¬ port on several resolutions and motions that had been referred to that committee; is that so ? THE PRESIDENT--That is correct. MR. BROOKS — Now, then, sir, I move a division of the question. There are some seven or eight matters, some of them very important, which have been reported by the Committee on Rules, and the motion now is for this convention to take them up as a whole, and either adopt them or reject them. Now, sir, I move that we divide the report so as to take up each separate resolution which was referred to them, and upon which they have made a report, and then it will be time for the gentleman from Walker to introduce his motion in regard to the resolution which he offered, and which was referred to the committee. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Mobile moves that the question upon the adoption of the report be divided and that each resolution be taken up seriatim. MR. OATES—I am apprehensive that the delegate— MR. LONG (Walker)—I have the floor. MR. OATES—I rise to a question of order. I am not taking the gentleman off the floor at all. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman from Walker has the floor unless he yields it for the entertainment of a motion. MR. BULGER—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 365 THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Montgomery rose to the same question. MR. OATES—I was going to say that I am apprehensive that the delegate from Mobile does not understand the present at¬ titude of the question. The point of order was made against the motion by the delegate from Walker, as to the report as a whole, and he is now preparing.a motion to amend that report by strik¬ ing out what relates to his resolution, and substituting the resolu¬ tion. That is the motion which he is reducing to writing, and which is before the convention. MR. BROOKS—Mr. President, in answer to the gentleman— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Walker has the floor on that proposition, unless he yields. The chair cannot en¬ tertain another motion. MR. BROOKS—I would like to be recognized when the gen¬ tleman from Walker is through. MR. BULGER—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—State the question of inquiry. MR. BULGER—I would like to ask if Rule 47 operates on a resolution reported by the committee, just as it does on an or¬ dinance reported by the committee. THE PRESIDENT—The chair’s understanding is and ruling would be that it does not. The Secretary will read the amend¬ ment proposed by the gentleman from Walker. The amendment was read as follows: “To amend the report of the Committee on Rules, as to resolution No. 86, by striking out the adverse report of Resolution No. 86, and substituting therefor the favorable recommendation of said resolution, and placing the same upon its passage.” MR. WHITE—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state his point of order. MR. WHITE—It seems to me that would be the convention making a report for the committee. That committee has the re¬ sponsibility for its own report. The convention may adopt or reject its report, but I make the point of order that we cannot make a report for the committee. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that that is: an amendment asked for by the Chair. I was trying to carry out the good suggestions made by the distinguished lawyers, who. 366 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS seem to have technical ideas in mind. I was trying: to cover all the wise sugfgfestions that have been made— THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is of the opinion that the g:entleman can move to amend the report, so as to call for the adoption of the resolution instead of its rejection. MR. WHITE—I rise to another point of order, and it is this; that the effect of that motion is to reconsider the resolution by which this convention decided to have a stenog:raphic report, and it cannot be made at this time, and it could not have been made at the time the gfentleman from Walker made it. because one en¬ tire day had elapsed from the time of the adoption of the resolution. MR. LONG (Walker)—This is a separate resolution. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would rule, and the contract made with the stenog-rapher provides, that the contract may be rescinded in case it is not complied with, and the resolution recites certain alleg:ed failures on the part of the stenogfrapher to comply with the contract; therefore, it would be in order, if the conven¬ tion saw fit, to rescind the contract, althoug:h it would not now be in order to reconsider the orig:inal resolution. MR. REESE—I rise to make a point of order. MR. REESE—The question before the convention is the re¬ port of this committee. There are several matters treated of in that report, which are capable of division, and upon which separ¬ ate votes should be taken. Under Rule 37, the g:entleman from Mobile has called for a division of the questibns contained in that report, and he is entitled to that division as a matter of rig:ht, and the g:entleman’s amendment is therefore out of order to the whole report. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—That proposition would undoubt¬ edly be correct if the gfentleman from Mobile had been entitled to the floor, but the gfentleman from Walker had the floor, and still has the floor and the g^entleman from Mobile could not be recog:- nized to call for a division of the question. Whenever he could g:et the floor he could call for the division. THE PRESIDENT—That was the former ruling: of the Chair and will be adhered to, unless the g:entleman from Walker yields the floor. MR. LONG (Walker)—Mr. President, I have no desire to take up the time of this House, neither have I any apolog:ies to make for offering: a resolution that seeks to save to the tax payers of Alabama $70 a day, on a contract, an illeg:al contract, made without an aye and no vote in this assembly, althougfh called for by myself. A contract that, had it been leg:al and if there was any excuse for it, is certainly null and void on account of the errors. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 367 the numerous errors that have existed in that report from the first day, on May 24, until the present time. A report that is so full of errors, that the numerous corrections are almost equal to the nu¬ merous leaves of absence that are asked here by members daily upon this floor. A report that makes it May 28th twice in the same month, althougfh three days apart in the proceedings. A report that makes a minister of the gfospel advocate 50 cents for mileag'e instead of 5 cents, as the disting'uished g^entleman from Cleburne was made to appear by this report. A report, Mr. Speaker, that is without a fact and precedent in the State of Alabama; that is g’otten up, in my humble judgfment, for no other purpose than to air the great set speeches by the members upon this floor, at any expense of $70 a day, when on the markets of Alabama those same set speeches would not sell any where, three for a dime. flttle thought and expression published in the record, will be but cudgels in the hands of the enemies of the Constitution, to fight us in the battle for its ratification, and the fight for its sustainment in the Supreme Court of the United States. It has been charged that I and othp-s are afraid to go on record. I may have been called everything on this earth, but have never been justly called a coward. I am not afraid to Ro before the whole people with anything that I say. But, sir, it is mv love of them that makes me object to forcing them to read such foolish expressions that myself and others m this convention may make, especially at an expense of seventy dollars per day. There can be no good reason given why we should longer ^atity or confirm a contract that is full of errors, from start to finish, when we can do the same work at a saving of about fifty-five dol¬ lars a day. Again, you can let the Brown Printing Company, or others, publish this in pamphlet form, when we have the journals published, and we can have the journals of this convention published at least thirty days earlier than can otherwise be done, and there is not a printer in the sound of my voice but what knows this is the fact. I yield gracefully to a majority, provided the rnajority is right, and provided that the resolution that they adopt is legal. I con¬ tend that the whole thing is null and void. As great as we are, as great as this convention is, we have no right to ppropnate money and put this useless debt upon the people of Alabama with¬ out an aye and no vote. If we can do it for seventy dollars per day, we can do it for seven million dollars per day. I am not a lawyer, not even a constitutional lawyer, and they are the most common of all lawyers. Why, sir, whenever they begin to speak of an old man that lives in any of the villages or towns of Alabama, they ask how the old fellow is getting a ong and if he is doing a good law practice, and sorne fellow says no he has not a good practice, but he is a very fine constitutional lawyer. Now Mr. President, I do not desire to take up longer time upon this argument, and, in the language of John Allen, who once said in Congress, having answered all of the opposition and all ot the claims of the opposition to this measure, I am ready to receive the congratulations of my numerous friends for this privilege, and I thank you, Mr. President, and I give notice that I may h^^ something to say in regard to some of the statements that will be made upon this floor, as the mover of this resolution. 370 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR HARRISON—The delegate from Walker having had his say the convention having heard this matter discussed, and having seen the practical operation of the resolution he seeks to repeal, I now move to lay his motion on the table. MR. LONG (Walker)—And on that I call for the ayes and noes. The President stated the question was upon the motion of the gentleman from Lee to lay the amendment of the gentleman frotn Walker on the table. A reading of resolution No. 86 was called for by Mr. Sanford, and the resolution was again read. THE PRESIDENT—Is the call for the ayes and noes sus¬ tained? MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask for the reading of Rule No. 36, that the members on this floor may know that it takes thirty dele- gates to sustain a call for the ayes and noes. Rule 36 was read as follows: “The ayes and noes shall only be ordered when the call there¬ for is sustained by thirty delegates.” THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Lee to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Walker. MR. LONG (Walker)—I called for the ayes and noes. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair called upon the convention to know if the call for the ayes and noes was sustained and saw no gentleman rise. Thereupon the call for ayes and noes was sustained by thirty- two delegates rising. The question being upon the motion to table the amendment of the gentleman from Walker (Mr. Long) the vote upon roll call resulted as follows: AYES. Messrs. President, Altman, Banks, Bartlett, Bethune, Blackwell, Boone, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Byars, Carmichael, of Coffee, Carnathan, Case, Coleman, of Greene, Carmichael, of Colbert, Cornwall, Craig, deGraffenreid, Eley, Eyster, Espy, Ferguson, Fitts, Foshee, Foster, Freeman, Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery,. Graham, of Talladega, Greer, of Calhoun, Handley, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Hodges, Hood, Howell, Jackson, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Kyle, Leigh, MacDonald, McMillan, of Baldwin McMillan, of Wilcox, Martin, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller, of Wilcox, Mulkey, Murphree, TOTAL—91. Almon, Ashcraft, Barefield, Beavers, Beddow, Burns, Cardon, Chapman, Cofer, Coleman, of Walker, Davis, of DeKalb, Duke, Fletcher, Grayson, Total—40. Cobb, Cunningham, Davis, of Etowah, Dent, Glover, Grant, Greer, of Perry, Henderson, Total— 24 . NcSmith, Norwood, Oates, O'Neal, of Lauderdale, O'Neill, of Jefferson, Palmer, Parker, of Cullman, Parker, of Elmore, Phillips, Pillans, Pitts, Porter, Proctor, Reynolds, of Chilton, Rogers, of Sumter, Sanders, Searcy, Selheimer, Sentell, NOES. Haley, Heflin, of Randolph, Howze, Inge, Jones, of Bibb, Kirkland, Locklin, Long, of Butler, Long, of Walker, Lowe, of Jefferson, Lowe, of Lawrence, Malone, Miller, of Marengo, Hinson, Jenkins, Jones, of Montgomery, King, Kirk, Ledbetter, Lomax, Morrisette, Sloan, Smith, of Mobile, Smith, Morgan M., Sollie, Spears, Stewart, Studdard, Tayloe, Thompson. Vaughan, Waddell, Walker, Watts, Weakley, Weatherly, White, Whiteside, Wilson, of Clarke, Winn. Moody, Opp, O’Rear, Pearce, Pettus, Reynolds, of Henry, Robinson, Rogers, of Lowndes, Sanford, Smith, Mac A., Spragins, Williams, of Barbour, Williams, of Marengo. Norman, Reese, Renfro, Samford, Sorrell, Willett, Williams, of Elmore, Wilson, of Washington, absent or not VOTING. 372 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I desire to make a statement in reference to my vote. I opposed the adoption of the resolution providing’ for the employment of stenographers, but the contract has been made and I think the convention should carry it out. I therefore voted aye. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I desire to explain my vote. I was not here when this contract was authorized, by the vote of this convention, if I had been present I would have voted against it, but as the contract has been made, I now vote to sustain it. MR FOSTER—I rise to a point of order. A vote cannot be explained without a suspension of the rules. MR. deGRAFFENREID—The explanation has already been made. The President announced that by a vote of 91 ayes, 40 noes, the amendment offered by Mr. Long is laid upon the table. THE PRESIDENT—The question recurs upon the adoption of the report of the committee. MR. BROOKS—I now ask for a division of the question so as to take up every separate resolution, or series of resolutions reported by the committee. MR. OATES—I think if the delegate from Mobile would give attention to the fact, there is no dissent from the report at all, except upon the point that has just been settled, so why not act upon the report as a whole MR. BROOKS—I differ entirely with the gentleman from Montgomery. There may be a great deal of dissent. There are some resolutions which the committee report back without action, for the action of the convention; some are reported adversely and some favorably, and I do not see how we can act intelligently upon the whole report unless we have a division. I simply under my privilege as a member of the convention, under this rule, I ask for the division. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the gentle¬ man is entitled to have a division of the question. The secretary will read the first resolution reported. The resolution was read as follows: The Committee reports adversely to Resolution No. 86 intro¬ duced by Mr. Long of Walker, and recommends that it be not adopted by the convention. Said resolution reads as follows: “Whereas a resolution making an appropriation from the State Treasury of $70 a day for a stenographic report of the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention was passed by this body without an aye and no vote, and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 373 Whereas, there are grave doubts as to the legality of such a proceeding and Whereas, the stenographic reports as published show many errors, therefore. Be it resolved, That the President of this convention be and he is hereby requested to immediately cancel the contract for stenographic report, after paying all the expenses by the State connected therewith, to the date of cancellation. THE PRESIDENT—What will the convention do with this part of the report? MR. BROOKS—I move its adoption. The motion was seconded and carried. The next section of the report was read as follows: The committee reports favorably on resolution No. 105, in¬ troduced by Mr. Searcy of Tuscaloosa, and recommends its adop¬ tion by the convention: Resolved, That whereas, this convention has made a contract with Mr. Pat McGauly for stenographic reports of the proceed¬ ings of this convention, wherein it was agreed to pay said Mc¬ Gauly $70.00 for each working day of the convention for the stenographic report; and, whereas, there is now no authority in law for the Auditor to draw his warrant on the Treasurer for payment of said stenographer, therefore be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, that there is hereby appro¬ priated a sum sufficient to oay whatsoever shall be due said sten¬ ographer according to said contract, and the Auditor is hereby authorized and empowered to draw his warrant on the Treasurer in favor of said stenographer for such sums as shall from time to time be certified to be due for such purpose by the President and Secretary of the Convention. THE PRESIDENT—What will the convention do with this part of the report? MR. KNIGHT—I move its adoption. The motion was seconded and carried. MR. ASHCRAFT—I rise to a point of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the inquiry. MR. ASHCRAFT—Rule 47 provides that if any ordinance is reported by a committee it shall be printed. Of course we are going to approve this part of the report, but I rise to'inquire if it will be competent for the convention to suspend the rules and put this ordinance upon its passage, after it has laid over for one 374 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS day as required, or will we have to have it printed? I do not suppose there is a gentleman on the floor who would care to have this particular ordinance printed. I rise to know whether we are obliged to have it printed. THE PRESIDENT—The chair does not understand that this is an ordinance. It is in the form of a resolution and consequently the rule would not apply. MR. ASHCRAFT—It says “Be it ordained by the people of Alabama.” It is an ordinance which was proposed to the conven¬ tion and w'hich is now favorably reported by the committee. MR, COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President, “ordinance” only refers to changes or amendments in the Constitution. THE PRESIDENT—That is the understanding of the chair, without regard to what it might be called. The rule requiring ordinances to be printed does not apply to resolutions. The chair would hold that this proposition might be put on its passage with¬ out printing. MR. BURNETT—The rule says ordinances, and it seems that this is a resolution. The report of the committee on resolution No. 105 was again read, and, upon motion, the report of the committee thereon was unanimously adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next section of the report. The section w’as read as follows: “The committee reports back to the convention No. 83, in¬ troduced by Mr. Pettus of Limestone, without recommendation on its part, for the action of the convention.” Resolution No. 83 was read as follows: “Be it resolved. That hereafter all ordinances and resolutions offered in this convention shall state briefly in the title the sub¬ stance of such ordinances or resolutions, and shall be read by title only and referred to the appropriate committee. Provided, that it shall be in order for any delegate to call for a full reading of such ordinance or resolution within a reasonable time after it has been read by title.” MR. PETTUS—I submit that that is the practice in the Gen¬ eral Assembly, and it is a rule that this convention will be forced to adopt to save time if the flood of ordinances continues after the committees begin to report. Of course, just at this time, since the introduction of ordinances and resolution is the principal busi¬ ness before us, there is no necessity for it, and I will move to re- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 375 commit that to the Committee on Rules to report it to the conven¬ tion when it becomes necessary in order to save time. A vote beingf taken, the motion to re-commit was lost. MR. HOWELL—If it is m order, I move the adoption of that report. It is simply an open and shut case. That is the uni¬ form custom in the General Assembly, and as these resolutions are printed in the daily reports of the convention, I see no reason why that should not be adopted at once. THE PRESIDENT—The g^entleman from Cleburne moves that this part of the report be adopted. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—If that part of the report is adopted, the stenographic report which this convention has con¬ tracted for would be of very little service to the convention, unless other rules were adopted requiring the stenographer to include in his report the resolutions and ordinances which were not read but which were introduced. 1, therefore, think the resolution ought not be adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The motion was not to adopt the resolu¬ tion, but adopt the report of the committee with reference to the resolution—to concur in the report of the committee. MR. BROWNE—What was the report of the committee on that subject? THE PRESIDENT—The committee reported it back to the convention without recommendation. MR. BROWNE—Then I submit there is nothing before the House. THE PRESIDENT—The report of the committee is before the House and a consideration of it is being had section by section —that has been demanded, and that part of the report of the com¬ mittee is before this body. MR. OATES—I understand the report of the committee is non-action on that resolution. THE PRESIDENT—Simply to report it back to the con¬ vention. MR. OATES—Then we don’t need a resolution of concur¬ rence to get rid of it. THE PRESIDENT—The motion of the gentleman from Cle¬ burne was to concur in the report. A vote being taken, this section of the report of the committee was concurred in. MR. ROBINSON—^I offer an amendment. 376 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The question is what will the conven¬ tion do with the resolution of the gentleman from Limestone? MR. PETTUS—I desire to offer an amendment to the resolu¬ tion. The amendment was read as follows: “Amend by adding ‘Provided, however, that the daily steno¬ graphic report shall set out all ordinances and resolutions intro¬ duced in full.” MR. ROBINSON—That was the amendment I offered. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Limestone offered the same amendment. MR. OATES—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. Is the reso¬ lution in the report which has just been concurred in before the convention at all? The committee referred it back without recom¬ mendation. How did it get before the convention? THE PRESIDENT—The chair understands the committee reported the resolution back to the convention— MR. OATES—But without recommendation and how did it get before the Convention for consideration? THE PRESIDENT—It was a part of the report of the Com¬ mittee on Rules. MR. OATES—Not for consideration, however. That part of the report of the Committee has been concurred in by the Con¬ vention but— THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read that part of the report. The Secretary read as follows :i “The Committee reports back to the Convention Resolution No. 83, introduced by Mr. Pettus of Limestone, without recommendation on its part for the action of the Convention.” MR. OATES—And the action of the Convention has been had by concurring in that part of the report and the resolution failed and is not by the report of the Committee before the Con¬ vention for consideration at this time. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The delegate from Limestone will please state his point. MR. PETTUS—I submit to the distinguished gentleman from Montgomery that the report of the Committee on Rules is that this resolution be referred back without recommendation “for the action of the Convention.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 377 MR. OATES—It don’t use that language. MR. PETTUS—I understand that is the language. THE PRESIDENT—That is the language of the Committee, “for the action of the Convention.” MR. PETTUS—I then moved to refer that back to the Com¬ mittee to report it to the Convention whenever a necessity for it arose. The Convention voted that down and then voted to accept the report of the Committee on Rules, which brings the resolution up for the immediate action of the Convention. I submit to the Chair if I do not correctly state the situation. the PRESIDENT—That is the ruling of the Chair. MR. BLACKWELL—I rise to make a parliamentary inquiry, and it is as to the attitude of this resolution. It is now here before the Convention, as I understand it. THE PRESIDENT—It was reported by the Committee with¬ out recommendation. MR. BLACKWELL—Then the point of order I would make is that unless the rules are suspended no resolution can be voted upon. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is of the opinion that the point of order is not well taken. The Committee on Rules reports this resolution back expressly for action by the Convention inas¬ much as the Committee on Rules did not see fit to take the re¬ sponsibility of making any recommendation. It is referred back “For action by the Convention.” That is the purpose for which it is brought here and the question is on the adoption of the motion to amend made by the gentleman from Limestone. MR. HARRISON—That amendment was offered by the gen¬ tleman from Chambers. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Limestone caught the eye of the Chair and proposed the identical amendment which the gentleman from Chambers intended to propose. THe Chair recognized the gentleman from Chambers to offer his resolution and the Chair understood him to say it was covered b3^ the amend¬ ment offered by the delegate from Limestone. MR. MALONE—I regard that as the most dangerous resolu¬ tion that has been offered in this Convention, and I move that it be laid on the table. Upon call, the original resolution of Mr. Pettus and the amend¬ ment was again read. 378 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. CHAPMAN—I rise to a point of parliamentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The g'entleman will please state the point. MR CHAPMAN—As I understand it the question before the Sse is a r^ort from the Committee oh Rules^ I ask now iMhV action of the Convention is not complete on that report of the Committee? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair does not so understand it. TheSutton wi7®port.d to the Convention by the Comm.ttee for action. MR. CHAPMAN—Yes. As I understand it, Mr. President, the Convention has not completed its action upon the .9 the Commhtee on Rules. It is true the Committee reports this matter back to the Convention for action, but it does not say that ?he action of the Convention shall be injected into the report of the Committee on Rules as a part of that report. It seems to me that the action on this matter should be postponed u^itil th Convention has completed its action on the report ^ Tn^^■tee on Rules We are here taking up a matter and injecting it as part of the action of the Committee on I^les, as fmal, during the oendencv of action on the report of the Committee on Rules, and^I think^if the Convention pleases, that we must first finish the action upon the report of the Committee on Rules and then we can Srup the mattL of this resolution of the gentleman from Limestone. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I make the point of order that a division of the report has been called for and this resolution e reported without recommendation by the Committee on Ru es, . the property of the House. MR CHAPMAN—But the report of the Committee on Rules does not say that the House shall act °V' *',”°ircan actine on the report of the Committee on Rules. It ^ true h can be taken up immediately after the matter before the House which is the report of the Committee on Rules, is finally acted on. THE PRESIDENT—^The Chair will rule that the resoliRion is before the Convention, having been brought before the Con¬ vention by the action of the Committee on Rules in reporting it to the Convention “for action,” and the question is on the motion to table the resolution offered by the gentleman from Henry. A vote being taken, the motion to table was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next section of the report. The Secretary read as follows: “The Committee reports back to the Convention Resolution No. 87, introduced by Mr. Vaughan CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 379 of Dallas, without recommendation on its part for the action of the Committee.” THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would call the attention of the Chairman of the Rules Committee to the fact that there seems to be a typographical error in this section of the report of the Committee in report back this resolution for the action of the “Committee” I presume it was meant to the “Convention.” MR. SMITH—I ask unanimous consent to amend the report by inserting the word “Convention” instead of the word “Com¬ mittee.” THE PRESIDENT—Unless there is objection, it will be so ordered. MR. SMITH—And I move the adoption of that portion of the report of the Committee. MR. FOSTER—I rise to a point of order. Has not the report of the Committee on Rules already been adopted? THE PRESIDENT—Not this part. MR. FOSTER—I thought it was the entire report. THE PRESIDENT—No, only that part as to the resolution offered by the gentleman from Limestone has been carried. Resolution 87 was read as follows: “Resolved, That no delegate shall introduce a resolution or ordinance until his name is reached on the roll call except under a suspension of the Rules.” MR. ROBINSON—I rise to a point of inquiry. Suppose we concur in that report, what becomes of that resolution? THE PRESIDENT—The resolution will be before the House for adoption or rejection. MR. ROBINSON—If we refuse to concur in the report? THE PRESIDENT—The report will simply be defeated and lost as to that portion of it. A vote being taken the report of the Committee on this sec¬ tion of said report was concurred in. THE PRESIDENT—Resolution No. 87 offered by the gen¬ tleman from Dallas is now before the House. MR. BROOKS—I rise to a question of parliamentary proce¬ dure. I would like for the Chair to state upon what proposition the vote just taken was had. I voted “no” supposing it was on that resolution. 380 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—It was on concurring- in the report of the Committee. MR. BROOKS—We could not take a vote on that proposition of concurring^ in the report of the Committee when the reading- of that resolution was called for. THE PRESIDENT—The report of the Committee is before the Convention and on the demand of the gentleman from Mobile, we are considering it section by section. MR. HEFLIN—I make the point of order that the Committee on Rules reported this back to the Convention for the action of the Convention. MR. BROOKS—The question is, will the House accept that or refer it back to the Committee. THE PRESIDENT—That was the question the Chair stated to the Convention and the Convention accepted the report and the question now is what will the Convention do with this resolution? MR. VAUGHAN—I move the adoption of the resolution. A vote being taken the resolution was lost. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next section of the report. The Secretary read as follows : “The Committee reports back to the Convention Resolution No. 102 introduced by Mr. Henderson of Pike, without recom¬ mendation on its part, for the action of the Convention. The Committee on Suffrage and Election, under the permis¬ sion given on yesterday, here retired from the House to resume their labors in Committee. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I move the adoi)tion of that section of the report of the Committee. A vote being taken the motion was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The question is now on the resolution No. 102 introduced by the gentleman from Pike. What is the pleasure of the House? The resolution was read as follows. “Resolved, That hereafter no member of this Convention shall yield his call for the purpose of introducing resolutions and ordi¬ nances to any other member, nor shall any other member on the call of his name introduce resolutions or ordinances in the name of any other member where such other member answered to his name on roll call on any days session of this Convention.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 381 On motion the resolution was tabled. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next section of the report. The Secretary read as follows: “The Committee reports as a sul)stitute for Resolution No. 97, introduced by Mr. Winn of Barbour, the followinqf resolution, and recommends its adoption by the Convention: 'Resolved, That it is the sense of this Con¬ vention that each ordinance offered shall contain but one subject matter, which shall be clearly expressed in the title, so that the same may be properly referred to the appropriate committee.'' MR. SMITH—I move that the Convention concur in the re¬ port of the Committee just read. MR. WATTS—I rise to a question of inquiry. Does that mean that two or three sub-divisions cannot be included in one paper? MR. SMITH—The substitute does not undertake to bind a member or prevent him fiom offering what he pleases, but is a mere matter of recommendation, that it is the opinion of the Com¬ mittee that the subject matter of an ordinance should be expressed clearly in its title and the ordinance should relate to only one subject. MR. WATTS—But the question of inquiry is, does that mean that you cannot in the same ordinance, move to amend three or four different sections or does it mean that each ordinance must refer to only one section? THE PRESIDENT—Does the .e:-entleman from Montg'omery propound his inquiry to the Actinsf Chairman of the Rules Com¬ mittee or to the President? I understood him to propound it to the Acting Chairman of the Rules Committee. MR. WATTS—I want to know how the Committee under¬ stands the resolution. MR. SMITH—I don't know how I can state it more speci¬ fically. The Committee on Rules understood it as a resolution, that it was the sense of the convention that ordinances should contain but one subject matter, but the Committee does not pro¬ pose to absolutely bind deleg^ates in the matter of ordinances and resolutions. This is simply in the nature of a recommendation. It is further su^^ested that if several matters were covered by one g’eneral subject that that could properly come in one ordinance. In other words, the same rule that applies to bills on passage in the legislature. 382 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Mr. Browne had obtained recog’nition from the Chair just before the remarks of Mr. Smith (Mobile) and yielded the floor to Mr. Smith- The Chair then recognized the delegate from Talla¬ dega. MR. BROWNE—The gentleman from Mobile has given exactly the explanation that I rose to give. MR. PROCTOR—I would like to know if it was the substi¬ tute of the Committee that was read or the original resolution of the delegate from Barbour. THE CLERK—It was the substitute. A vote was taken and it was announced that the report of the Committee was concurred in. THE PRESIDENT—The Clerk will read the next section of the report of the Committee. The Clerk began the reading of the section. MR. BROWNE—I rise to a point of order. The resolution has not been adopted. Only the substitute has been adopted and the question is now on the resolution as amended by the substi¬ tute. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is correct. The Chair should have stated the question on the resolution as amended by the adoption of the substitute. MR. SMITH—I then move the adoption of the substitute pro¬ posed by the Committee. The motion was seconded by Mr. deGraffenreid and was carried. The Secretary then read the remaining section of the report as follows: “The committee reports adversely to resolution No. 101 introduced by Mr. Watts of Montgomery and recommends that it be not adopted by the convention for the reason that its purpose is covered by Rule No. 47. A vote being taken this portion of the Committee’s report was concurred in and on motion of Mr. Smith the report of the Committee on Rules as a whole was concurred in. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the call of the roll alphabetically for the introduction of ordinances, resolutions, memorials and petitions and their proper reference to committees. MR. WILSON (Qarke.)—Before the beginning of the roll call, I desire to ask leave of absence on account of sickness for Mr. Wilson of Washington. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 383 The leave was granted. MR. ASHCRAFT—I desire to ask leave of absence for my¬ self for tomorrow and next day. The leave was granted. On the calling of the roll for ordinances, etc.: MR. ALMON—I yield my call to Mr. Williams of Marengo. Resolution No. 117, by Mr. Williams (Marengo.) Whereas there appears to be great diversity of opinion as to the manner of appointment of trustees, faculty and executive offi¬ cer of certain State educational institutions, and whereas, from years of association with the University of Virginia, I believe that the methods employed therein governing that institution of learn¬ ing are good; Therefore attached hereto is an unabridged copy of the laws of the University of Virginia for 1900 together with the code refer¬ ences from the laws of the State of Virginia in regard to said Uni¬ versity which are commended to the study and careful considera¬ tion of the Committee on Education, hoping that, therefrom, they will get much that is good tending to relieve the said institution in the State of Alabama from objectional influences. By Mr. Williams of Marengo. With the consent of the convention, I beg that the attached exhibit be referred to the committee without reading before the convention, and without printing. (With accompanying document.) Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance 289, by Mr. Banks: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, that Article VIII of the Constitution of Alabama on suffrage and elections be amended by striking out the whole of the article and inserting in lieu thereof the following: Section 1. That every male citizen of the United States who is twenty- one years old or upwards and who is not prohibited by Section 2 of this Article from registering, voting or holding office, shall be an elector and entitled to vote at any election by the people, if such elector (one) shall be duly registered when registration shall be required and shall have resided in the State one year, in the county six months, and in the precinct or ward three months immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote; and shall have paid all taxes, including a poll tax of three dollars, due the State and county, the receipt for which he shall exhibit to the managers of the election if they shall demand it. 384 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 2. The following classes shall not be permitted to vote, register or hold office: (1) All persons who shall have been convicted of treason, em¬ bezzlement of public funds, malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery or any other crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. (2) Any person who shall hereafter be guilty of selling his vote or who shall buy or barter the vote of another in any legal election or in any primary, caucus or convention held to nominate persons for public office or to elect dele¬ gates to any political convention, or who shall make or aid in making any false certificate or return as to the result of such election, primary, caucus or convention. (3) All persons who have abandoned their wives without legal separation or who have abandoned their minor children without having made provision for their physical support and their moral training. (4) All idiots or insane persons. Sec. 3. Be it further ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled. That at every election by the people, either Federal, State, coun¬ ty or municipal, two grades of ballots shall be furnished the managers of elections at every precinct or ward which shall be similar and identical in every respect, except that one shall be white and the other shall be colored. These ballots shall contain the names of all the candidates offering for places or offices to be filled after the plan of arranging ballots under the system known as the Australian system of voting. When an elector entitled to vote shall make application to the election managers for a ballot and shall declare himself competent to prepare his own ballot then the manager of the election shall give him a white ballot, and he shall without assistance prepare his ballot by making a cross mark opposite the name of each candi¬ date that he wishes to vote for, and when the ballot is properly prepared and given to the election managers, it shall count as one full vote. But when an elector who is entitled to vote at the election then being held, shall make application to the managers of the election for a ballot and shall declare himself incompteent to prepare his ballot by making a cross mark opposite the candidates for whom he wishes to vote, then the managers of the election shall give him a colored ballot and the elector shall be permitted to choose his own marker to aid him in preparing his ballot and when such colored ballot is thus prepared and given to the election managers, it shall be counted as one-fourth of a full vote. Sec. 4. Be it further ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, That every man who was in the land or. naval forces of the Federal or Confederate armies during the war between the States shall be permitted to cast a full ballot in all elections held in this State at which he is a qualified elector. Sec. 5. Be it further ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, That after the year 1906 male persons coming into this State and all male persons arriving at the age of twenty-one years, shall, before being permitted to register as qualified voters, pass the following examination: (1) Every male person shall be able to write and shall read intelligently any section of the Constitution of the State. (2) He shall know enough of the geography of the State to give its boundaries, the names and locations of its CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 385 counties, its principal rivers and its principal cities. (3) He shall know how many departments there are in the government of the State and the functions and names of the officers in each of these departments, and when such ex¬ amination shall have been passed in compliance wdth the requirements of this section and in compliance with such other rules as may be prescribed by the General Assembly in carrying out the requirements of this ordinance, then the person passing such examination shall receive a certificate of citi¬ zenship written or printed on parchment and signed by the examiner and Judge of Probate of said count^q and recorded in a book kept for the purpose of keeping such records. Sec. 6. Be it further ordained, That the General Assembly of Alabama, at its first session after the ratification of this Constitution shall enact such laws as will provide for the examination necessitated by Section 5 of this Act. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Resolution No. 118, by Mr. Barefield: To provide for the payment of stationery and printing, etc. That whereas, It is necessary for this Convention to be sup¬ plied with the proper stationery and to have furnished for the use of the Convention various and sundry pamphlets, and where¬ as, the Secretary of State is not empowered to contract for or to appropriate any money to pay for such expense. Therefore be it resolved: First—That the Chairman of the Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Expenditures be and is hereby authorized to appoint three members of said committee with himself as chair¬ man to contract for such stationery and printing at the lowest expense and to certify the various amounts due for said stationery and printing to the Secretary and President of this Convention, who .shall cause to be drawn a warrant on the Treasury of this State to pay same and said amount when so drawn shall be charged up to the expenses of the Constitutional Convention. Referred to Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Expenditures. MR. BAREFIELD—I move to suspend the rules and that that resolution be adopted. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I rise to a point of inquiry. Did not the Rules Committee report a similar solution authorizing the Secretary to supply that and pay for it. THE PRESIDENT—The information of the Chair is that that resolution only referred to the necessary blank books and stationery for the Secretary’s office. A vote being taken, the rules were suspended, on a division the county being 60 to 5 and a further vote being taken the reso¬ lution was adopted. 386 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 290, by Mr. Beddow of Jefferson. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled. That a Commission is hereby created consist¬ ing of three male citizens over the age of 25 years, to be elected at the first general election for State officers after the ratification of the Constitution. One of said Commissioners shall be learned in the law, and one of experience in the railway business. Their term of office shall be the same as that of the Governor, unless otherwise fixed by the General Assembly. The salary of said Commissioners shall also be fixed by the General Assembly, and paid as other State officers are paid. Any Commissioner may be suspended by the Governor for drunkenness, incompetency, or neglect of duty, and the Governor shall appoint his successor for the unexpired term. The said Commissioners shall take an oath of office to be framed by the Governor and they shall not be the holders or owners of any railroad stock or bonds, or be the agent or employes of any railroad company, or have any interest, di¬ rectly or indirectly, in any railroad, its bonds or stocks, or other wise interested financially. The Governor shall have power to fill all vacancies in said Commission as they occur, as in other cases. It shall be the duty of said Commission to carry out the pro¬ visions of this Constitution and all laws enacted by the General Assembly relative to railroads and canals in this State. Sec. 2. The General Assembly shall have the right to confer upon the commission the power to make reasonable and just rates of freight and passenger tariff to be observed by all railroad com¬ panies doing business in this State on the railroads thereof, and to make reasonable and just rules and regulations to be observed by all railroad companies doing business in this State, as to charges at any and all points for the necessary handling and delivering of freights; and shall have power to make just and reasonable joint rates for all connecting railroads doing business in this State, as to all traffic or business passing from one of said roads to an¬ other, and to require.the location of such depots, and the estab¬ lishment of such freight and passenger buildings, as the condition of the road, the safety of the freight and public comfort may re¬ quire, and to make just and reasonable rules and regulations, to be observed by said railroad company on said railroads; to pre¬ vent the giving or paying of any rebate or bonus, directly or in¬ directly, and from misleading or deceiving the public in any man¬ ner as to the real rates charged for freight and passengers; and to fix all local freight rates from one point to another in this State. Referred to Committee on Corporations. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 387 Ordinance No. 291, by Mr. Blackwell of Morgfan: An ordinance to prohibit the appropriation of any part of the public school money in aid of church or sectarian schools. And to prohibit teachers of public schools and superintendents of edu¬ cation from being’ interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any books, school fixtures, etc. Section 1. An ordinance. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That neither the General As¬ sembly, nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make an appropriation, or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of or to help sup¬ port or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientific institutions controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or dona¬ tion of land, money, or other personal property ever be made by this State to any church or for any sectarian purpose. Sec. 2. Second, no teacher. State, County, township or dis¬ trict school officer shall be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book apparatus, or furniture used, or to be used in any school in this State with which such officer may be con¬ nected, under such penalties as the General Assembly may pro¬ vide. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. BOONE—I yield my turn to Mr. Waddell. Ordinance No. 292, by Mr. Waddell: An ordinance to amend Article VI of the present Constitu¬ tion relating to the Judiciary. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article VI be amended by inserting therein the words “County Court.” Sec. 2. Be it further ordained that Section 5 of Article VI be amended so as to read as follows: The Circuit Court shall have original jurisdiction in all matters, ciyil^and criminal, within this State not otherwise excepted in thi^Constitution, but in civil cases only where the matter or sum in controversy exceeds two hundred dollars ($200) and of all trials involving the title to lands. Sec. 3. Be it further ordained. That a section be added to or included in Article VI to read as follows: The County Courts in all counties where no city courts or inferior courts of law and equity have already been created by law shall have original juris¬ diction of all misdemeanors, and all civil matters where the sum in controversy does not exceed two hundred dollars ($200), but shall have no jurisdiction of trials involving the title to lands, and the judge of probate shall be ex-officio judge of the county court. 388 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 4. Be it further ordained that a section be included in Article VI which shall read as follows: There shall be elected in such counties as county courts are established by this Consti¬ tution in this State, by the qualified voters of the county, a judge of probate who shall be learned in the law, and who shall, at the time of his election, and during his continuance in office, reside in the county for which he is so elected. Sec. 5. Be it further ordained, that Section 23 of Article VI be amended as follows: By adding therein the following words, "Who shall be ex-officio clerk of the County Court.” Sec. 6. Be it further ordained that the county court shall be open at all times for the trial of civil and criminal cases, provided, however, that said county court shall hold at least four (4) jury terms in each year. Sec. 7 . Be it further ordained that the commissioners court or board of county revenue shall fix the salary of the Tudge of the county court at a sum not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000), the same to be paid out of the county treasury. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 293, by Mr. Bulger. An ordinance to regulate the right to vote in this State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, that Article VIII of the present Constitution be stricken out and the following added in lieu thereof. ARTICLE VIII. Suffrage and elections. Section 1. Every male citizen of the United States who is 21 years of age, possessing the following qualifications, shall be an elector, and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people, except as hereinafter provided. 1. He shall have resided in the State at least one y^ar, in the county at least six months, and in the precinct or ward at least thirty days immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote; Provided, that no soldier, sailor nor marine in the military or naval service of the United States, shall acquire a residence by being station in this State. (2) He shall be able to read any section of the State Consti¬ tution or understand and interpret the same when read to him; Provided, this requirement shall not apply to any person or the descendants of any person who was a qualified voter anywhere in the United States on the 1st day of January, 1867. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 389 (3) He shall have paid his poll tax for the year next pre¬ ceding- the year in which he offers to vote; Provided, the receipt of the tax collector or of any officer authorized to collect the same shall be prima facia proof of the payment of his taxes. Sec. 2. All elections by the people shall be by ballot and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. Sec. 3. The following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote or hold office, to wit: Those who shall have been convicted of treason, embezzle¬ ment of public funds, malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery, or other crime involving moral turpitude punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. Sec. 4. Electors shall in all cases except treason, felony or breach of the peace be privileged from arrest during their at¬ tendance at elections or while going to or returning therefrom. Sec. 5. The General Assembly shall pass laws not inconsistent with this constitution to regulate and govern elections in this State, and in such laws shall be uniform throughout the State. The Gen¬ eral Assembly may when necessary provide by law for the regis¬ tration of electors throughout the State or in any incorporated city or town thereof, and when it is so provided, no person shall vote at any election unless he shall have registered as required by law. Sec. 6. It shall be the dut}" of the General Assembly to pass adequate laws giving protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxicating liquor at all elections. Sec. 7. Returns of elections for all civil officers who are to be commissioned by the Governor, except Secretary of State, State X Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney General, State Superintendent of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture, and for members of the General Assembly shall be made to the Secretary of State. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Ordinance 294, by Mr. Burns: An ordinance to amend Section 1, Article XVII of the present constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, that Section 1 of Article XVII of the present constitu¬ tion be amended so as to read: Mode of amending the constitution. Section 1. The General Assembly, whenever two-thirds of each house, shall deem it necessary, may propose amendments to the constitution, which having been read three times on three 390 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS successive days, shall be duly published, for the consideration of the people, in such manner as the General Assembly may direct at least three months before the next general election, at which representatives are to be elected, and it shall be the duty of the returning officer, and managfers of each precinct of the next gfen- eral election at which representatives are to be voted for, to open a poll for the votes of the qualified electors, on the proposed amendment; and to make return of the votes cast for and against to the Secretary of the State; and if it thereupon shall appear that a majority of the qualified electors of the State, who voted for Senators and members of the lower house voted in favor of the proposed amendment; said amendment shall be valid to all in¬ tents and purposes as parts of this constitution, and the result of such election shall be made known by proclamation of the Gov¬ ernor. Referred to-Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. Resolution 119, by Mr. Burns: Resolved, that whereas it has been stated upon this floor, which statement has not been denied, refuted or controverted, that a stenog-raphic, verbatim report of the proceedings of this con¬ vention can be furnished in pamphlet form and one thousand, or more copies of the same be delivered to the proper officers of the convention prior to the hour of convening each day, at a saving of at least $25 per diem to the tax payers of the State. And whereas the publishing of the proceedings in proper pamphlet form would add to the convenience of the members, and to the saving of much expense in office of the secretary from day to day, as well as in the final preparation, for the publication of the journal. That the Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Ex¬ penditures be and hereby authorized to send for persons and pa¬ pers and thoroughly investigate this subject as early as practi¬ cable, and report as early as convenient. MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask the gentleman from Dallas if he won't consent to strike out the word twenty-five and insert the word fifty instead. THE PRESIDENT—The motion would not be in order at this time. Referred to Committee on Schedules, Printing and Incidental Expenditures. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 391 Ordinance No. 295, by Mr. Gofer: An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to amend Section 5 of Article IV of the Constitution of Alabama. Regfulating^ terms of the General Assembly of Alabama, and pay of members, of¬ ficers and clerks. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 5 of Article IV of the Constitution of the State of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Section 5. The General Assembly shall meet every four years at the State Capitol in the Senate Chamber and in the Hall of the House of Representatives (except in cases of destruction of the Capitol or epidemics when the Governor may convene them at such place in the State as he may deem best) on the day specified in this Constitution, or on such other day as may be prescribed by law, and said General Assembly shall not remain in session longer than sixty days. Provided, further, that the officers, clerks and members of the General Assembly shall receive no compensa¬ tion as per diem for days that they are not in session. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance 296, by Mr. Coleman (Walker): Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention As¬ sembled : First—That no county having a population exceeding 25,000 and taxable property exceeding $4,000,000, in which there is now a court having the same jurisdiction throughout the limits of the county as both Circuit Courts and Chancery Courts, shall be in¬ cluded in and judicial circuit or chancery division of this State after the expiration of the terms of office for which the present Circuit Judges and Chancellors were elected. Second—That in all counties which now have or may here¬ after have a population exceeding 25,000 and taxable property ex¬ ceeding $4,000,000 in value, the General Assembly shall have power to establish City Courts or County Courts having the same jurisdiction as both Circuit Courts and Chancery Courts through¬ out the limits of such counties, and thereafter such counties shall not be included in any judicial circuit or chancery division; pro¬ vided, that this section shall not take effect until after the expira¬ tion of the terms of office for which the present Circuit Judges and Chancellors were elected. Third—That the General Assembly shall have the power, after the expiration of the time for which the present Chancellors were elected, to abolish the chancery court in any county in which a court shall have been established, having equity jurisdiction. 392 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Referred to Judiciary Committee. MR. CORNWALL—I yield my call to Mr. O^Neill of Jef¬ ferson. Ordinance No. 297, by Mr. O’Neill (Jefferson) : Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in con¬ vention assembled, That no city or town in the State shall here¬ after incur any bonded debt which, including existing bonded in¬ debtedness, shall exceed 10 perccntum of the assessed value of the taxable property therein, and no such debt shall be created with¬ out submitting the question as to the creation thereof to the quali¬ fied electors of such city or town and unless a majority of such electors voting on the question shall be in favor of creating: such further bonded debt, none shall be created; provided, that this shall not be construed to prevent the issuing: of certificates of in¬ debtedness in anticipation of the collection of taxes for amounts actually contained or to be contained in the taxes for the year when such certificates are issued and payable out of such taxes. And provided, further. That such cities or towns on the is¬ suing: of such bonds, create a sinking- fund for the redemption thereof at maturity. Nothing herein contained shall prevent the issuing of bonds to an amount sufficient to refund bonded in¬ debtedness existing at the time of the adoption of this Constitu¬ tion. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance 298, by Mr. Fitts (of Tuscaloosa) : Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled that the Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama shall consist of nine persons to be elected by the people at the same time, in the same manner and for the same term of office as the Justices of the Supreme Court. Referred to Committee on Education. Ordinance 299, by Mr. Fitts: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the Governor of the State shall be ineligible for any office of trust or profit under this State or the United States for the period of two years immediately next after the expiration of his term of office as Governor. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Mr. Brooks here took the Chair. Ordinance 300, by Mr. Graham (Montgomery) : CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 393 An ordinance to prevent the General Assembly from depriving: the municipalities of this State of their leg^itimate revenues. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled: That the General Assembly of Alabama shall not enact any law which will permit a person, firm, corporation, company or association of any character, to pay a privilege, license or other tax, to the State of Alabama and relieve it from the pay¬ ment of all other privilege and license taxes in the State. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance 301, by Mr. Graham (Montgomery): An ordinance to amend Section 2 of Article IV of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama. Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled: That Section 2 of Article IV of the Consti¬ tution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: The style of the laws of this State shall be; “Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Alabama.” Each law shall contain but one subject, which shall be clearly expressed in its title, except general appro¬ priation bills, general revenue bills, and bills adopting a code, di¬ gest, or revision of statutes; and no laws shall be revived, amend¬ ed, or the provisions thereof extended or conferred by reference to its title only; but so much thereof as it revived, amended, ex¬ tended or conferred, shall be re-enacted and published at length. If any subject shall be embraced in an act which is not expressed in the title, such act shall be void only as to so much thereof as shall not be expressed. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution 120, by Mr. Grayson: Resolved, That all resolutions authorizing the payment of any money shall be adopted only by a yea and nay vote. Referred to Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Expenditures. Resolution 121, by Mr. Long of Walker: Resolved, That hereafter no appropriation or contract re¬ quiring the payment of money from the State treasury shall be passed by this Convention otherwise than by a yea and nay vote. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 302, by Mr. Long (Walker) : An ordinance to amend Section 12 of Article V. of the Con¬ stitution of Alabama. 394 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 12 of Article V^. of the Constitution be amended by striking* out all words after the word '‘powder’' of the first line that precedes '‘to” which is the first word of the third line of said Section 12. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. Mr. McMillan of M'ilcox, yielded his turn to Mr. Miller of Wilcox, and handed in an ordinance b}" the latter, who was absent. Ordinance No. 303 by Mr. Miller (Wilcox) : Amendment to Article 8, Constitution of 1875. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : First—That every male citizen of the United States who is 21 years of age, and who has resided in the State of Alabama for twelve months, and who has resided in the county for three months and in precinct or ward thirty days next preceding any election, and who can read and Avrite the English language, and who pays taxes on $300 worth of property, and who has paid his poll tax, shall be an elector and entitled to vote at any election by the people, except as hereinafter provided. Second—That the following classes shall not be permitted to register, vote or hold office, viz: Those who have been convicted of treason, embezzlement of public funds, malfeasance in office, larceny, bribery, or other crime punishable by imprisonment in penitentiary and those who are idiots or insane. Third—That every male citizen of the United State.^ who is 21 years of age and who has effected the residence required by Section one (1) as above stated, and who was a soldier or sailor in any of the w^ars of the United States or of the Confederate States, shall be entitled to vote, though he may not be able to comply with the educational or property qualifications required by Section one (1) of this ordinance. Fourth—That every male citizen of the United States who is 21 years of age and who has effected the residence required by Section one (1) of this ordinance, and who is 21 years of age and who is a lineal descendant within the fourth degree of any soldier or sailor of any of the wars of the United States or of the Con¬ federate States, shall be entitled to vote, though he may not be able to comply wdth the educational or property qualifications re¬ quired by Section one (1) of this ordinance. Fifth—That every male citizen of the State of Alabama who has effected the residence required by Section one (1) of this or¬ dinance, and who was entitled to vote on the 1st day of January, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 395 1867, shall be entitled to vote, though he may not be able to comply with the educational or property qualifications required by Section one (1) of this ordinance. Sixth—That every male citizen of the State of Alabama who is over the ag^e of 21 years and who has effected the residence re¬ quired by Section one (1) of this ordinance, and who is a lineal descendant within the second decree of a citizen of the State of Alabama who was entitled to vote on the 1st day of January, 1867, though he ma 3 " not be able to comply with the educational and property qualifications required b^^ Section one (1) of this or¬ dinance. Seventh—That after the 1st day of January, 1908, all male citi¬ zens of the United States who offer to vote in the State of Alabama for the first time shall comply with the qualifications required by Section one (1) of this ordinance. Eig'hth—That the Leg-islature of the State shall, at its first session after the ratification of this Constitution, provide by law for the reg-istration of voters and the manag-ement of elections so as to secure a free ballot and a fair count. Ninth—That Sections 4, 5, 6, and 7 of Article VIII. be re¬ enacted as they now stand in the present Constitution. Tenth—That every citizen of the United States who is over the ag^e of 21 years and who has effected the residence required by Section one (1) of this ordinance, and who owns a home in the State of Alabama in his own ri^^fht, or in the ri^ht of his wife, shall be entitled to vote thou.^h he may not be able to comply with the educational qualifications required l)v Section one (1) of this ordinance. Eleventh—That no soldier, sailor or marine in the military or •naval service of the United States shall acquire a residence by bein^- stationed in this State. Twelfth—That all elections by the people shall l)e by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacitv shall be viva voce. Referred to Committee on Suffrag-e and Elections. Ordinance No. 304, by Mr. Milo Moody. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, that the constitution be amended by adding the following article: Section I, In all primary elections for the nomination of officers by any political party, whether for State, county or muni¬ cipality, shall be by ballot and no elector shall vote therein unless he be a le^al voter entitled to vote in a g^eneral election under the constitution and laws of Alabama. Sec. 2. No elector shall have the right to vote in any primary election directed by a party, for which such elector did not vote in a previous general election next before the primary in which he offers to vote. 396 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 3. The managers, judges, clerks or other persons holding primary elections shall all take an oath before opening the polls to vote, to faithfully and honestly conduct said election, such oath to be administered by any officer authorized to administer oaths or in the absence of such officer they may administer such oath to each other, calling two witnesses thereto. Sec. 4. Any officer of any political party charged with the duty of calling, directing and canvassing the returns of any primary election, who wilfully commits any fraud, shall be guilty of a mis¬ demeanor. Sec. 5. Any person who buys or sells his vote or any person tvho sells his time or influence for the election of any one for a valuable consideration, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Sec. 6. Any person violating any of the foregoing sections relative to the primary election laws shall be guilty of a misde¬ meanor and upon conviction shall be fined not less than $50 nor more than $500, and may also be imprisoned in the county jail or isentenced to hard labor for the county for not more than six months. Referred to Committee on Amendments to Constitution and Miscellaneous Provisions. Ordinance No. 305, by Mr. Mulkey. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article X of the Constitution be amend¬ ed by adding, immediately after the word “contracted” on the fifth line the word “or torts committed, or costs incurred in civil proceedings.” Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 306, by Mr. Mulkey: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That Section 7 of Article X of the constitution be and the same is hereby repealed. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. Ordinance No. 307, by Mr. Murphree: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled; that Section 7 of Article 1 of the Declaration of Rights of the Constitution of Alabama be and the same is hereby amended by adding to said section the following: Persons consigned to imprisonment by commitment or other process, for violation of the criminal, laws of the State shall be entitled to a speedy trial before the first court holden, having jurisdiction after commitment, and the committing magistrates must make such cases so returnable. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 397 Referred to Committee on Preamble and declaration of Rig^hts. Ordinance No. 308, by Mr. Murphree: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no corporation, society, org^anization or association shall be allowed to charge or collect for, or upon the loan or for¬ bearance of money, goods, or things in action, either in the way of interest, fines, forfeitures, premiums, commissions, or sums of money for the purchase of stock, bonds or any interest in the business of such person, firm, corporation, society, organization or association, as a condition upon which such loan or forbear¬ ance is obtained, or in any other way connected with such loan or forbearance as a charge, a greater amount than the legal rate of interest provided for by the general laws of this State upon the loan or forbearance of money, goods, or things in action; and if any person shall have paid upon any debt any sum or sums of money for the purchase of stock, bonds, or any interest in the business of such person, firm, corporation, society, organization or association, as a condition upon which a loan or forbearance of money, goods or things in action is obtained or in the way of in¬ terest, fines, forfeitures, commissions, or in any other way, as is charged for or upon such loan or forbearance a greater amount than the sum necessary to pay the legal interest upon such loan or forbearance at the rate provided for by the general laws of this State for the loan or forbearance of money, goods, or things in action, such amount over and above the sum necessary to pay such legal date of interest shall be credited to the principal or forbearance. Referred to Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. The President here resumed the Chair. Ordinance 309, by Mr. Pillans. An ordinance relating to the qualification for the exercise of the suffrage (Article VIII Constitution.) Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : That no person shall be allowed to register or vote in this State unless he can speak the English language. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Mr. Rogers (Lowndes) yielded his turn to Mr. Ferguson. Resolution 122, by Mr. Ferguson: A resolution concerning the suffrage. Be it resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. 398 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS That the Committee on Suffrage and Elections be required to look into the legality and advisability of embodying the following suggestions, in the suffrage clause to be submitted to this Con¬ vention, conferring the right to vote as follows: First—On those citizens of the State not otherwise disquali¬ fied, who were born in a State or bondage or servitude prior to the first day of January, 1863. Second—On those citizens of the State and their descendants not otherwise disqualified, who were not born in a State of bond¬ age or servitude, prior to the first day of January, 1863. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. GRAHAM—I offered an ordinance a few moments ago, which was referred to the Committee on the Legislative Depart¬ ment. It was number three hundred. I was not paying attention at the time the reference was made. I would like to have it go to the Committee to which I think it should go, the Committee on Municipal Corporation. The reference was changed as requested. Ordinance No. 310, by J. W. A. Sanford: An ordinance to constitute the Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor and Treasurer, Railroad Commissioners. Whereas, the Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasur¬ er now form a Board of Assessment of the property of railroad companies and of telegraph companies, and whereas, it is desirable that the officers of the State shall be as few as practicable. Therefore, be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled. That the Governor, Secretary of State, Au¬ ditor and Treasurer of Alabama, be and the same are hereby made Commissioners of Railroads, who shall exercise all the powers and authorities conferred by law on the existing Railroad Commission, and shall discharge all the duties thereof and shall have such other powers, and perform such other duties as the General Assembly may require. Provided, That the terms of office of the present Railroad Commissioners shall not expire till the inauguration of the next elected Governor of the State. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 311, by Mr. Sanford: An ordinance to change the area of the counties by amending Section 2 of Article II. of the Constitution. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 399 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That where the words “six hundred square miles” occur in Section 2 of Article II. of the Constitution of this State, they may be stricken out, and the words “four hundred square miles” be inserted in lieu thereof. And no greater majority of votes in either house of the Gen¬ eral Assembly shall be required to form new counties, or to es¬ tablish the boundaries of counties, than is necessary for the en¬ actment of any other law. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 312, by Mr. Smith Mac A. (Autauga): Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 2 of Article GIL of the Constitution of said State be amended so as to read as follows: No Convention shall hereafter be held for the purpose of al¬ tering or amending the Constitution of this State, unless the ques¬ tion of Convention or no Convention shall be first submitted to a vote of all the electors of the State, and approved by a majority of all the registered or qualified electors of the State. Referred to Committee on Amending Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. Ordinance No. 313, by Mr. Watts; To amend Section 7, Article XL; Be it ordained, That Section 7, Article XL be amended so as to read as follows; Sec. 7. The General Assembly shall from time to time divide the towns, villages, cities and other municipalities of this State, which have less than 25,000 inhabitants, as shown by the last pre¬ ceding Federal census, into classes, and shall fix from time to time the rate of taxation, not exceeding one-half of 1 per cent, of the value of the property, real and personal therein in any one year, which may be levied and collected by cities having more than 25,000 inhabitants, and by the different classes of towns, vil¬ lages, cities and other municipal corporations having less than 25,000 inhabitants, and no town, village, city or other municipality shall levy and collect in any one year any greater rate of taxation upon the property contained therein than shall be authorized as above provided. Provided, that for the payment of debts existing at the time of the ratification of this Constitution and the interest thereon, and any renewals of said indebtedness, an additional rate of not exceeding three-quarters of 1 per cent, may be levied and collected, to be applied exclusively to such indebtedness or the renewals thereof. And provided, further, that the General AS’ 400 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS sembly may provide for the assessment and collection of taxes hy towns, villages, cities and other municipalities, on property which has escaped taxation. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No. 314, by Mr. Watts: That Section 4, Article XI, be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : Section 4. The General Assembly shall, from time to time, divide the counties of the State, which have less than 40,000 in¬ habitants, according to the last preceding Federal census, into classes according to population and shall fix from time to time the rate of taxation, not exceeding 1-2 of 1 per cent in any one year, which may be levied and collected by counties having more than 40,000 inhabitants, and by the different classes of counties having less than 40,000 inhabitants, and no county shall levy or collect in any one year any greater rate of taxation upon the property sit¬ uated therein than shall be authorized as above provided, but the General Assembly may provide, for the assessment and collection by counties of taxes on property which has escaped taxation. And the General Assembly shall also, from time to time, fix the rate of taxation, not exceeding 1-4 of 1 per cent in any one year, which may be levied and collected by counties having more than 40,000 population, and by counties in each of the classes having less than 40,000 inhabitants to be applied exclusively to payment of the prin¬ cipal and interest of debts now existing and the renewals thereof, and the General Assembly shall also fix from time to time the rate of taxation which any county may levy and collect, not ex¬ ceeding 1-4 of 1 per cent in any one year to be devoted exclusively to public improvements within said county. Referred to Committee on Taxation. To amend Sections 1, 2 and 7, Article X, and to add a section. Be it ordained. That Section 1 be amended by inserting after “shall be exempted,” the words “and if all of his or her personal property is less than $1,000 in value, it shall, without claiming it, be exempt.” That Section 2 be amended by inserting between “eighty” and “acres,” the words “contiguous and adjoining,” and by adding at the end the words, “All laws allowing a larger or different ex¬ emption in realty are avoided.” That Section 7 be amended so as to read as follows: Section 7. No waiver hereafter made of the right of exemption, real or personal, hereinbefore secured, whether made verbally or in writing, except a failure to claim the property as exempt before a sale thereof, shall be effective. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 401 Section -, to be added to Article X: Be it ordained, That the wages of every resident of this State, not exceeding $25,00 per month, shall be absolutely exempt from garnishment or other process. Any officer who, knowing or hav¬ ing good reason to believe that the wages of any resident do not exceed $25.00 per month, issues or serves a garnishment or other process to subject any such wages to the payment of any debt owed or claimed to be owed by any such resident, shall be, and the sureties on his official bond shall be, and the person causing said process to be issued shall be liable to a penalty of $500, which may be recovered in a suit by the resident against whose wages said garnishment was issued. Referred to Committee on Exemptions. Ordinance No. 316, by Mr, Watts: Independent section: Be it ordained. That whenever personal property is sold upon an installment plan, with the right in the vendor to retake posses¬ sion, the vendor shall, before retaking possession of any such prop¬ erty, pay or tender to the vendee not less than one-half of the money or other thing of value paid by the vendee or for the ven¬ dee towards the purchase of said personal property. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Independent section: Ordinance No. 317, by Mr. Watts: Be it ordained, That no two or more corporations organized under the laws of this or any other State, or of the United States, shall consolidate or be operated together, or in connection with each other in this State, and no corporation shall own or hold stock in any other corporation. If any corporation organized un¬ der the laws of Alabama acquires or holds, after the ratification of this Constitution, any stock in any other corporation, the char¬ ter of the corporation so acquiring or holding any stock in another corporation shall be forfeited. Section ——. No insurance or other company, corporation, or association of individuals, which has an agreement, contract or understanding of any kind or character with any other company, corporation or association of individuals by which it is understood or agreed that insurance shall be issued or maintained, or that any¬ thing shall be sold at a fixed price, common or essentially conri- mon, to all the companies, corporations and associations to said agreements, or that the net or other receipts of all or a part shall be divided or apportioned amongst all such companies, corpora¬ tions and associations in any manner whatsoever shall be per¬ mitted to do business in this State, Every foreign corporation 402 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS which signifies its intention to do business in this State, must, be¬ fore being permitted to commence said business in this State, file with the Secretary of State an affidavit of its president or other managing officer that it is not connected with any other corporation by* any agreement or understanding whatever. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance 318, by Mr. Watts: To add a section to Article VI and amend Section 25, Article VI. Be it ordained, That the General Assembly may confer upon justices of the peace, notaries with powers of a justice of the peace, and upon mayors and recorders of towns or cities, final jurisdiction with right of appeal of all misdemeanors, and also the power to inquire into charges of felony and bind the defendant to a higher court. And the General Assembly may provide that all justices of the peace and notaries with the powers of justice of the peace in towns and cities, may exercise their jurisdiction, civil and crim¬ inal, in any precinct lying wholly or partly within the towns or cities, respectively, in which they reside. That Section 25, Article VI, be amended so as to read as fol¬ lows : Sec. 25. A solicitor for each Judicial Circuit and all other solicitors provided for shall be appointed by the Governor by and with the approval of the Senate. The solicitor shall be learned in the law, shall at the time of his appointment and during his con¬ tinuance in office, reside in the circuit or county for which he is appointed. He shall not practice law except as a solicitor. He shall receive no fees, but a fixed compensation, which shall not be greater than the compensation of the judge of the court of which he is solicitor. The partner of a solicitor shall not be allowed to defend in any criminal case. All solicitors must be at least 25 years of age. The term of office of solicitor shall not exceed six years. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance No. 319, by Mr. Weakley: Relating to the construction of street railways, gas, water, steam or hot water heating, telephone, telegraph, electric light or power plants in or on the streets, avenues or alleys of towns or cities. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That no street railway, gas, water, steam or hot water heating, telephone, telegraph, electric light or power company within a city or town shall be permitted or authorized to construct its tracks, lay its pipes or mains, or erect its poles, or posts or other CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 403 apparatus, or string’ its wires upon the same, along, over, under or across the streets, alleys or public grounds of a city or town, with¬ out the consent of the proper municipal authorities of such city or town being first had and obtained. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the call of the standing committees. The calling of the roll for this purpose was started. MR. WADDELL—I move we dispense with calling of the roll of the standing committees for reports. THE CLERK—I think some are goin^ to report. THE PRESIDENT—Does the g'entleman insist on his mo¬ tion? MR. WADDELL—No. The call was continued and the Municipal Corporations Com¬ mittee reported as follows: The Committee on Municipal Corporations to whom was re¬ ferred Ordinance No. 183 introduced by Mr. Boone of Mobile and Ordinance No. 186 introduced by Mr. Weakley of Lauderdale be^ leave to report that they have considered the same and recom¬ mend the adoption of the following^ substitute by the convention. John B. Weakley, Chairman of Committee on Municipal Corporations. June 5th, 1901. Substitute by the Committee on Municipal Corporations for Ordinance No. 183 and Ordinance No. 186 relating^ to the org'ani- zation and classification of cities. An ordinance to reg'ulate the org^anization and classification of cities and towns. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly shall provide by general laws for the organization and classification of cities and towns; the number of such classes shall not exceed four, and the power of each class shall be defined by general laws so that all such mu¬ nicipal corporations of the same class shall possess the same pow¬ ers and be subject to the same restrictions. The General Assembly shall assign the towns and cities of the State to the class to which they respectively belong, and change assignments made as the population of such cities and towns increase or decrease, and in the absence of other satisfac- 404 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tory information as to their population the General Assembly shall be governed by the last preceding federal census, provided, how¬ ever, that any town or city in Alabama may in the year 1905 and every ten years thereafter cause a census of all of its inhabitants to be taken, and the General Assembly may change the classifica¬ tion of such town or city according to the results of such census. 'Sec. 2. Any city having a population of more than twenty- five thousand inhabitants may frame a charter for its own gov¬ ernment consistent with, and subject to the constitution and laws of this State, by causing a board of thirteen free-holders, who shall have been for at least five years qualified voters thereof, to be elected by the qualified voters of such city at any general or special election; which board shall within ninety days after such election return to the chief magistrate of such city the draft of such charter signed by the members of such board or a majority of them. With¬ in thirty days thereafter, such proposed charter shall be submit¬ ted to the qualified voters of such city, at a general or special election, and if four sevenths of such qualified voters voting thereat shall ratify the same, it shall at the end of thirty days thereafter become the charter of such city and superceed any ex¬ isting charter and all special acts of the General Assembly relating to such city other than laws securing and enforcing the payment of debt of such city, and shall supercede any existing charter and amendments thereof. A duplicate certificate shall be made set¬ ting forth the charter proposed and its ratification, which shall be signed by the chief magistrate of such city, and authenticated by its corporate seal; one of such certificates shall be deposited in the office of the Secretary of State, and the other after being re¬ corded in the office of the Judge of Probate or the county in which said city lies, shall be deposited among the archives of such city, andd all courts shall take judicial knowledge thereof. Such charter so adopted may be amended by a proposal there¬ for published for at least thirty days in two newspapers of said city and accepted by three-fifths of the qualified voters of such city voting at a general or special election and not otherwise; but such charter shall always be in harmony with, and subject to the constitution and laws of the State of Alabama. MR. SANFORD—I move to amend the report of the Com¬ mittee by striking out that part of it which authorizes “a city of 25,000 or more to make its own charter and amend it at will. MR. REESE—I rise to a point of order, that the Convention cannot now act on that report. THE PRESIDENT—The rules require that the report of the Committee shall lie on the table and be printed. Amendments will be in order when it comes up for its third reading. MR. SANFORD—^That is satisfactory. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 405 THE PRESIDENT—The ordinance having been read a sec¬ ond time to the Convention will lie on the table and will be printed. THE CLERK—The Committee on Municipal Corporations also report as follows : The Committee on Municipal Corporations to which was re¬ ferred Resolution No. 23 introduced by Mr. Coleman, requiring bond issues and contracts maturing at a later date than twelve months to be first submitted to a vote of the people, beg leave to report favorably upon the attached substitute, and recommend its passage. Jno. B. Weakley, Chairman of Committee on Municipal Corporation. June 5th, 1901. Substitute for Ordinance No. 23: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no county, city, town, village, district or other po¬ litical sub-divisions of a county, shall have authority or be author¬ ized, after the ratification of this Constitution, to issue bonds, or enter into contracts involving pecuniary obligations, which are to mature or be performed at a time more than twelve months from the date of such issue, or such contracts, unless such issue of bonds or such contracts shall have been first approved by ma¬ jority vote by ballot of the qualified voters of such county, city, town, village, district or other political sub-division voting upon such proposition. In determining the result of any election held for this purpose no vote shall be counted as an affirmative vote which does not show upon its face that such vote was cast in ap¬ proval of such issue of bonds, or of such contracts. THE PRESIDENT—What will the Convention do with the report ? A motion was made that the Convention concur in the re¬ port of the Committee as to this ordinance. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. What is the effect if that motion is carried? THE PRESIDENT—To concur in the report of the Commit¬ tee on the ordinance. MR. PETTUS—Then the motion is only with reference to the adverse report? THE PRESIDENT—Yes. MR. REESE—I desire to ask this question: This is an or¬ dinance that has been reported. 406 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—Adversely.' MR. REESE—It has been reported to the Convention, but adversely. Now a construction of Rule 47 ini^ht implj" that that would have to take the same course as the other. The rule makes no very clear distinction between an adverse and a favorable re¬ port. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would rule it does not ap¬ ply to the adverse report. MR. PETTUS—I am informed that the author of the resolu¬ tion is not in the hall and I think it would be courtesy to him to pass it until he is present. THE CLERK—He has just come in. MR. FOSTER—I rise to a point of inquiry. If this report is concurred in can the resolution be taken from the adverse calen¬ dar? THE PRESIDENT—We have no rule as to placingf matters adversely reported on the adverse calendar. It has been reported adversely by the Committee and it is now before the Convention. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—In what shape would that ordinance be if the report of the Committee reporting the ordinance adversely should be adopted by the Convention. Would it require a reintroduction to bring it before the Convention? THE PRESIDENT—If the Convention concurs in the ad¬ verse report, it seems it would dispose of the ordinance. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—If the Convention does not concur in the adverse report, what status would it have? THE PRESIDENT—It would put it before the Convention. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—Immediately? Do I under¬ stand the Chair to say that it could come up for passage prior to the ordinance that is reported favorably? THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair it would go on the calendar if the Convention refuses to concur in the adverse report. MR. BROOKS—In order to obviate any uncertainty about that, if that ordinance is laid on the table can it not be taken up at any time? And in the meantime the Rules Committee can give us some rule on this subject. A vote was taken and a motion to table was carried. On the call the Committee on Schedule, Printing and Inci¬ dental Expenses reported favorably on Resolution No. 25 offered by Mr. Boone, as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 407 Resolved, That the Secretary of this Convention be, and he is hereby instructed to preserve five copies of the printed steno¬ graphic report of the proceedings of this Convention, and when said report is completed, to cause the same to be bound and de¬ posited in the office of the Secretary of State. THE PRESIDENT—That will lie upon the table and be printed. MR. REESE—-I desire to make an inquiry, as to the adverse report of the Committee on Corporations. Will that take the sarne course as a favorable report. Will that rejected ordinance be printed and furnished to the members? THE PRESIDENT—The ordinance lies on the table on the motion of the gentleman from Mobile unless it is taken from the table. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I ask unanimous con.sent to introduce a resolution to cover the point raised. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—The Chairman of the Com¬ mittee on Municipal Corporations says he will not resist taking from the table my resolution and postponing it with the report. I, therefore, move that we take the ordinance from the table and then will move to postpone it to the further day on which the re¬ port comes up. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The hour of adjournment has arrived. MR. HEFLIN—That was my point. MR. PRESIDENT—The clock has just struck and the Con¬ vention stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 o’clock. THIRTEENTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Thursday, June 6, 1901. The convention was called to order by the President and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Provence, as follows: Almighty God, Lord of Lords, and King of Kings^, we come into Thy presence again at the beginning of our day’s work to ggjj 'I'hy guidance and Thy blessing. We thank Thee for preserv¬ ing our lives and our health and our strength and bringing us to- 408 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS aether for the day’s duties. We could not take up any task of life without asking Thy help. We would not embark in any pur¬ suit of life without asking- Thy guidance. So while we thank Thee for all the blessings Thou hast so freely given us in the past, we realize our continued need of Thy presence and Thy blessing. We pray that Thy presence may be felt here today. Grant that ev¬ erything that is done may be in accordance with Thy will, that these members of this convention who come from all parts of the State to transact business of great importance may come in the right spirit, laying aside every unworthy motive, laying aside all partisan bias and working and planning together for the best in¬ terests of our State as a whole. So we pray that they may have Divine wisdom to guide them, that they may do the best thing. Bless the homes that are represented here. Bless all the loved ones left behind and grant that Thy spirit may keep charge over them protecting them from every evil thing. Guide them in the way of life, and peace, and duty and honor. Bless every member of this convention and every committee to whom is entrusted matters of great importance. Let Thy blessing abide upon us all in every walk of life. May we do everything for thy glory, for Jesus sake. Amen. On roll call 129 delegates responded. Mr. Williams (Marengo)—I ask leave of absence for Mr. Williams of Elmore for today, who is sick. The leave was granted. MR. WHITE—I am requested to ask leave for the Commit¬ tee on Suffrage and Elections to sit during today’s session of the convention. The leave was given. MR. WATTS—I am requested to ask leave of absence for today for Mr. Bulger of Tallapoosa. MR. deGRAFFENREID — As the convention has excused the members of the Suffrage Committee from attending the ses¬ sion today, and as I find upon my desk an ordinance to regulate the organization and classification of cities and towns in Ala¬ bama, I want to ask the Chair whether it would be the ruling of the Chair that that matter may come up for consideration and final action today. This ordinance makes a great many important changes. Some of the changes will affect the own of Greensboro, and the Southern University, which is situated in that town, and if it is to be considered and passed upon I will have to be here. THE PRESIDENT—If that order of business is reached in the regular call, in the opinion of the Chair it would be in order to be considered today. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 409 MR. cleGRAFFENREID—Then Mr. President I ask unani¬ mous consent, and move a suspension of the rules and that the consideration of this ordinance be set dowm for a hearing and dis¬ cussion at some future day when all of us can be present. MR. OATES—Does it require a suspension of the rules? A motion is in order to postpone. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Then I move, if it be in order, that the consideration of this ordinance be deferred until next Tuesday. THE PRESIDENT—That order of business is not up before the convention now, and without a suspension of the rules the Chair is of the opinion that it cannot be considered. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Then I move a suspension of the rules in order that I may make that motion. Upon a vote the rules were suspended. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Now Mr. President I move that the consideration of this ordinance be set down for hearing and determination by this convention on next Tuesday. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—What ordinance does the gentle¬ man refer to. MR. deGRAFFENREID—It is the ordinance to regulate the organization and classification of cities and towns, which was re¬ ported on yesterday by the Committee on Municipal Corporations. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—By Mr. Boone of Mobile? MR. deGRAFFENREID—It was reported by Mr. John B. Weakly, the chairman of the Committee on Municipal Corpora¬ tions to the Convention. THE PRESIDENT—I will inquire of the chairman if the re¬ port of the committee related only to that ordinance? THE CLERK—No, there are two or three ordinances. MR. BOONE—The chairman of that committee is absent and I am second on the committee. The report of the committee cov¬ ers two propositions. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Hale apply his motion to the whole report? MR. deGRAFFENREID—To the entire report. THE PRESIDENT—To what time? MR. deGRAFFENREID—Eleven o’clock Tuesday. 410 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Hale moves that the consideration of the report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations on the ordinance to reg-ulate the orgi-anization and classification of cities and towns be postponed and made a special order for 11 o’clock on next Tuesday. MR. SAMFORD—I move as a substitute for that motion that the consideration of this report be postponed until the com¬ mittee shall have reported a full article upon the head of the con¬ stitution they are considering-. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I accept that amendment. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman intend to move to recommit or does he want it to continue before the convention? MR. SAMFORD—If they want them to stay before the con¬ vention all right. I move to postpone the consideration of these ordinances or of these reports before the convention until the com¬ mittee shall report a full article on the subject in their charge, for the consideration of the convention. MR, WADDELI,—I rise to a point of order. The rules fix the time when ordinances shall be considered and unless the rules are suspended this cannot now be considered. THE PRESIDENT—The rules have been suspended in this particular case and the gentleman from Hale moves that the fur¬ ther consideration of this report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations be postponed until the committee reports a full arti¬ cle affecting this question. A vote being taken the motion was carried. MR. FLETCHER—I ask leave of absence for today for Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale. The leave was granted. MR. GREER (Perry)—On account of sickness in my family I was unable to report until this morning, and I ask that I may be excused for my unavoidable absence. THE PRESIDENT—Leave of absence was obtained by some friend of the gentleman from Perry. MR. BYARS—I wish to ask indefinite leave of absence after today on account of sickness. The leave was granted. MR. MAC. A. SMITH—I ask leave of absence for tomor¬ row on account of business. MR. DAVIS (De Kalb)—I ask leave of absence for tomor¬ row and next day. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 411 MR. PEARCE—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Lon^ (of Walker) on account of the illness of his father. MR. JENKINS—I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Lo¬ max for today. MR. ROBINSON — The stenographic report of yesterday does not set out the adverse report of the Committee on Munici¬ pal Corporations upon the ordinance introduced l)y Mr. Carmichael of Coffee, and neither the adverse report of the committee nor the ordinance introduced by the gentleman from Coffee is shown in the report. I desire to ask if it is not necessary that that should be in the stenographic report. THE PRESIDENT—Accordinp^ to the opinion of the chair the report of the committee should be in the steno^^raphic report. The chair does not recollect that the committee made any report except to state that is was adversely reported. It should so ap¬ pear in the report, and the stenop^rapher will correct it in the next issue. The next order of business is the report of the Committee on the Journal. The report was read, and stated that the Journal was correct. Upon motion of Mr. Greer (Perry) the report of the commit¬ tee was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll for the introduction of ordinances, memorials and resolutions: Ordinance No. 320, by Mr. Banks: Section 1. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, That Article V. of the Constitution be so amended as to provide for the election of ten County Commission¬ ers in each of the several counties of this State who shall be or- g-anized into a Commissioners Court that shall be presided over by the Jud^e of Probate of the county, and in addition to the duties prescribed by Section 958 of the revised Code of Alabama shall be required to assess the taxes, State and county, upon all property in the county in the manner provided in Section 4 of this ordinance. Sec. 2. Each county shall be divided into ten subdivisions as nearly equal in area as practicable and the map of each of these subdivisions shall be made, giving- the sections, half sections, quar¬ ter sections and eij^hths of sections embraced in each and a map of all towns or cities situated in each division. Sec. 3. One commissioner shall be elected from each of these subdivisions as follows: At the first State and county election held after the ratification of this Constitution five commissioners shall be elected, one from each alternate subdivision to hold the office of commissioner for the term of eight years and five shall 412 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS be chosen, one from each of the remaining subdivisions to hold the office of commissioner for four years. In all subsequent elec¬ tions five commissioners shall be chosen every four years whose term of office shall continue for eight years. Sec. 4. Each commissioner shall be provided with a map of the subdivision from which he was chosen and it shall be his duty to assess the taxes, State and county, upon all property embraced in his subdivisions according to such regulation and for such com¬ missions as the Legislature of Alabama shall prescribe. Sec. 5. It shall be the duty of the Commissioners Court to review the tax lists from each subdivision of the county, correct all errors and act as a board of equalization of the value of all taxable property in the county under such rule and regulations as the General Assembly of Alabama shall provide. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. • Ordinance No. 321, by Mr. Espy: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 1 of Article VI be amended so as to rea3 as follows; The judicial power of the State shall be vested in the Senate sitting as a court of impeachment, a Supreme Court, to consist of not more than seven judges. Circuit Courts, Chancery Courts, Courts of Probate and Justice of the Peace Courts, and the Legis¬ lature shall not have power to establish any other court except those herein named. Referred to Committee on Judiciary. Ordinance 322, by Mr. Foshee: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the representation in the General Assembly be based on the white population only. Referred to Committee on Representation. Resolution No. 123, by Mr. Foster: Whereas this convention has now been in session two weeks, and a great many ordinances have been introduced and referred to the several committees, and Whereas, the ordinances, heretofore introduced relate to the amending of only a few of the provisions of the present Consti¬ tution, thus manifesting the desire of the delegates to retain intact most of the provisions of the present Constitution, and Whereas, longer and more frequent sessions of the several committees are necessary to expedite the work of this convention; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 Ah Therefore, be it resolved: 1. —That after the 10th day of June inst., no ordinances pro¬ posing- amendments to the present Constitution, or additions there¬ to, shall be introduced before the convention. 2. —That when the convention adjourns on the 10th inst., it recess for one week. 3. —That the several standing committees shall, during such recess, hold daily sessions, and shall on the first day of the meet¬ ing of the convention after such recess, report back to the conven¬ tion for its action, articles or chapters, for the proposed new consti¬ tution, which relate to or affect the subjects indicated by the ti¬ tles of the respective committees. 4. —That such articles or chapters as reported shall be type¬ written and in a completed or entire form, and sub-divided into sections, such sections being consecutively numbered, after the manner of the present constitution. 5. —That nothing herein contained shall be construed so as to prevent any delegate from proposing amendments to the reports of the several committees. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 323, by Mr. Grayson: An ordinance to repeal Section 8 of Article II of the consti¬ tution. Be it ordained that Section 8 of Article II of constitution be, and the same is hereby repealed. Referred to the Committee on Taxation. Ordinance No. 324, by Mr. Harrison (Lee): An ordinance to amend Section 21, Article IV of the Consti¬ tution : Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, that Section 21, Article IV, of the present constitution be amended so as to read as follows: Every bill shall be read on three different days in each house; and no bill shall become a law unless on its final passage it be read at length and a vote be taken by yeas and nays, the names of the members for the same .to be entered on the Journal, and a ma¬ jority of the members elected to each House be recorded thereon as voting in its favor, except as otherwise provided in this consti¬ tution. Referred to the Committee on Legislative Department. 414 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Ordinance No. 325, by Mr. Heflin (of Randolph) : Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in co^ention as¬ sembled, that Section 3, 5 and 6 of Article IV of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Senators and Representatives shall be elected by the qualified electors on the first Monday in August, 1902, and all the Senators and Representatives shall be elected every four years thereafter unless the General Assembly shall change the time of holding elec¬ tions. The terms of office of the Senators and Representatives shall be four years, commencing on the day after the general elec¬ tion. The General Assembly shall meet biennially at the Capitol in the Senate Chamber and in the Hall of the House of Repre¬ sentatives (except in cases of destruction of the Capitol or epi¬ demics, when the Governor may convene them at such place in the State as he may deem best) on the day specified in this Con¬ stitution or on such other day as may be prescribed by law, and shall not remain in session longer than 60 days at the first ses¬ sion held under this Constitution, nor longer than fifty days at any subsequent session. The pay of the members of the General Assembly shall be five dollars per day and ten cents per mile in going to and return¬ ing from the seat of Government, to be computed by the nearest usual route traveled. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. MR. HENDERSON—I yield by turn to Mr. Sanders of Lime¬ stone. Resolution No. 124, by Mr. Sanders: Resolved, that hereafter all requests for leaves of absence shall be in writing, and laid upon the President’s desk each morning before the assembling of the convention. The President shall an¬ nounce the names of those for whom leave of absence is sought, and if there be no objection, leave shall be granted. Said request may be proffered by any member for other members. MR. SANDERS—For the purpose of putting that resolution upon its immediate passage I move a suspension of the rules. A reading of the resolution was called for by Mr. Reese. On a vote the convention refused to suspend the rules and the resolu¬ tion was referred to the Committee on Rilles. Resolution No. 125, by Mr. Jackson; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 415 Resolved, That all ordinances or resolutions referred to the Committee on Rules and reported back to this Convention with¬ out action thereon by said Committee, shall be placed upon the calendar to be called up in their regular order. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution 126, by Mr. Kirk: Relating to the Formation of a new counties: Resolved, That in the Constitution to be framed by this Con¬ vention, it shall be provided that no new county shall be formed of less extent than six hundred square miles as now provided bv the Constitution of 1875. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. Ordinance No. 326, by Miller (Marengo) : An ordinance to, provide for the election of County Superin¬ tendent e fee- l)le, almost imbecile, and yet be gaiilty of no crime for which he can be removed, what relief would the people of Alabama have? It is a rule of Thomas Jefferson, the greatest popular leader our country has ever had, that the power of election should be of fre¬ quent occurrence; that this power, entrusted to any man to dis¬ charge a particular duty, should be returned to the power which conferred it, in order that the people might examine as to the faith¬ fulness with which he has discharged his trust, and continue him, or discharge him. S24 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Now I do not know anywhere where any evil has come from it. If a man shall electioneer—^and by the way let me say this, that I do not know of but two instances in the history of Alabama where the Governor was elected to the United States Senate dur¬ ing his term. One was that of Clement C. Clay, Sr., and the other Gabriel Moore—and none other out of the eighteen or nineteen Governors we have had, has such an occurrence taken place. I can see no reason why, when most of the States of the Union have only two years, we should have four. In Virginia Patrick Henry was elected three terms. Nobody objected to his administration. In Tennessee John Sevier held the Governorship of that great commonwealth for twelve years, and no evil came to the State of Tennessee. In New York, DeWit Clinton held it for twenty-one years, and yet it was a glorious administration for that common¬ wealth. George Clinton, who ran against Madison for the Presi¬ dency, held it for eight years, and no harm befell New York. Joe Brown, one of the most popular men of the State of Georgia—but I do not hold him up to you gentleman as an exemplar of all political virtues—held it for three years, and would have held it for four but for the interference of John Sherman’s march through the State. So I say, no harm will come from having two terms. This article says that he cannot be a candidate for any office afterwards. You cannot prohibit his being a candidate for a Federal office. You cannot prohibit his being accepted by the Congress of the United States as a Representative, or as a Senator, for those bodies are the judges of the election and qualification of their own mem¬ bers, and if you put a prohibition in your Constitution, and the Legislature should elect a Senator what is your recourse? None. If you put it in your Constitution and the people of a district should elect him a representative, what can you do about it? Nothing. It is never wise to do ah unnecessary act, else it may be necessary to do those things which you cannot accomplish. Therefore I say that I hope it will remain as it is. It does not disturb the people to have officers over the State elected every two years. Again, Mr. President, the oftener the people recur to the principles of the Government under which they live, more cer¬ tainly will those principles be honored and preserved. That is the maxim of the wisest political philosophy; that governments are preserved by recurring often to the principles of their founda¬ tion, and this is a matter of profound importance; there is no business of more importance than selecting their rulers and legislators, and the people will not feel it a burden to vote every two years, as they have done since 1819. So, it seems to me, it is unnecessary to make this change, and I hope therefore that this amendment will be adopted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 525 The Chair stated the question to be upon the adoption of the amendment proposed by Mr. Sanford of Montjfomery. MR. REESE—I move to table it. The motion to table was seconded and carried. The Chair stated the question recurred upon the adoption of section three as amended. A reading was called for, and the section was read. MR. O’REAR—I have an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend section three by striking out the figures 1902, and inserting in lieu thereof the figures 1904. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move to lay that on the table. Seconded and carried. MR. DAVIS (DeKalb)—I have an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The amendment proposed by the gen¬ tleman relates to section five, which has not been reached. MR. DAVIS (DeKalb)—I thought we were on section five. THE PRESIDENT—We are on section three. The secre¬ tary will read section three as amended. The section was read as folldws: The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of Stale, Treasurer, Auditor, Attorney Gen¬ eral. Superintendent of Education and Commissioner of Agicut- tue and Industries shall be elected at the same time and place appointed for the election of members of the General Assembly in 1902, and every four years thereafter, by the qualified electors of the State. MR. JONES (Bibb)—Mr. President I wish to add to that section, “and the Attorney General shall be a man learned in the law.” THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman send up the amend¬ ment ? MR. JONES (Bibb)—I wish to ask the Secretary to add that to the section. THE PRESIDENT — The Chair cannot entertain amend¬ ments that are not in writing. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I had an amendment written out, but it has been removed from my desk. I would like to state it. 526 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The chair cannot entertain an amend¬ ment unless the gentleman reduces it to writing. (Cries of “leave.”) MR. O’NE.AL (Lauderdale)—I ask unanimous consent. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—They have been removed from my desk. I had them all written out. THE PRESIDENT — Cannot the gentleman reduce the amendment to writing? MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—It will take a few minutes, and it is a matter of calculation. THE PRESIDENT—If the chair entertains amendments pro¬ posed by one delegate, it will be impossible to refuse the same privilege to all delegates, and the chair declines to entertain the amendment unless it is reduced to writing. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I ask unanimous consent to hear the statement of the gentleman, not as an amendment, but as a statement. MR. PROCTOR—I move that Section 3 be temporarily i)assed, and that we take up Section 4 until the gentleman has time to reduce the amendment to writing. Dissent was audibly expressed to the proposition. MR. WATTS—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a reso¬ lution, not to be acted upon, but to be referred. Leave was given. Resolution No. 144, by Mr. Watts: Be it resolved. That the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment report to this convention whether any separate ordinance or provision of the Constitution to be framed is necessary to pro¬ vide for succession in the office of Governor until the Governor elected in 1902 goes into office. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I would like to make a state¬ ment before any motion is made to lay this amendment on the table. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will hear the gentleman’s :statement before any motion is entertained. Amendment by Mr. Coleman of Greene — “Strike out the words 1902 and insert the words 1904.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 527 MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—As I understand the purpose of the Convention is to have elections every four years, and I pre¬ sume that the understanding* is that will apply to all elections. There are some officers in the State who hold for four years, and some who hold for six years. The terms of those who hold for six years will not expire until 1904. So if you have these elections for terms beginning in December, 1902, and every four years there¬ after, as to those officers who hold for six years, with terms ter¬ minating in 1904, what is to become of them? But, by having the election postponed until 1904, you equalize all these elections, and have a short term of two years to start with, reaching up to 1904, and after that time all elections, State and County, can be held every four years, and one election serves the whole purpose intended. Thereby we will attain the object intended, if having elections every four years, and I see no other way to avoid the difficulty that will arise by declaring these officers shall be elected in 1902 and every four years thereafter. That is the purpose of the amendment; that we may have elections every four years, and that the}" will apply‘to County as well as to State officers. What will be done with your County Treasurers who hold for six years, and with Clerks Avho hold for six years? Their terms of office terminate in 1904, and not in 1902. MR, JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to ask my friend from Greene if his amendment were adopted, if the effect of it would not be to continue the officers now in office, whose terms will expire December, 1902, for two years? I did not catch the reading of it, and inquire for information. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I wish to say that under the haste I was acting I do not know, but I wanted to get the idea before the convention. I had that drawn up at length on my desk but it is gone. We must provide in some way for a short term, in order to equalize all the offices in the State. There is no es¬ cape from that. So these officers, whose terms expire in 1902, should be elected for a short term, until 1904, and then the whole machinery of the Constitution moves off smooth and there v(ill be no friction after that time. MR. DENT—It seems to me that the question which is raised by the gentleman from Greene can be settled in the schedule of the Constitution, and I therefore move to lav his amendment on the table. MR. FOSTER—I move as a substitute that section three be laid upon the table, to be taken up after the report of the Com¬ mittee on Legislation. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman cannot substitute a mo¬ tion to lay on the table. The question will be on the motion of the gentleman from Barbour to table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Greene. 528 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR, OATES—I know it is not debatable, but I have risen for the purpose of suggesting to the delegate from Barbour and others, that this is a proper matter for the Committee on Har¬ monies as the delegate from Montgomery called it, or the sand¬ papering committee, to reconcile just such things, and if it is adopted as temporary does not prevent it from being reconciled, and there is no use consuming time on it. The vote being taken, a division was called for and the motion to table the amendment was carried. MR, JONES (Bibb)—I wish to renew my amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend section three by adding immediately after the words Attorney General, the words “who shall be learned in the law.“ THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Bibb. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—From the abstract proposition none of us dissent, but it does seem to me that it looks like a re¬ flection on the people of Alabama to put in the Constitution an implication that they will elect an Attorney General who does not know any law. Upon a vote being taken, the amendment was lost, MR. HOWZE—I now move the adoption of section three, as amended, and on that section I call the previous question. The call for the previous question was sustained, and upon a vote section three, as amended, was adopted. Section four was read by the Secretary as follows: Sec. 4. The returns of every election for Governor, Lieuten¬ ant Governor, Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney General, Superintendent of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, shall be sealed up and transmitted by the returning officers to the seat of Government, and directed to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who shall, during the first week of the session to which said returns shall be made, open and publish them in the presence of both Houses of the General Assem])ly in joint convention; but the Speaker’s duty shall be purely ministerial, in this respect and any objection to any return on account of informality, defect or other cause, shall be decided by the Speaker, subject to the control of the majority of the joint convention. The person having the highest number of votes for either of said offices shall be declared duly elected; but if two or more persons shall have an equal and the highest number of votes for the same office, the General Assembly, by joint vote, without delay, shall choose one of said persons for said CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 529 office. Contested elections for Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney Gen¬ eral, Su]3erintendent of Education, and Commissioner of Agfricul- ture and Industries shall be determined by both Houses of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed bv law. MR. JONES—Mr. President, I would like to state that in the seventh line in the section the comma is after ministerial, when it should be after the word respect, but I suppose the Committee on Harmonics, as that is a musical term, will take the discord out, and, therefore, I do not move formally to amend it, MR. GRAHAM (Talladeg’a)—I have an amendment. The amendment was read: Amend line one of Section 4, by adding the letter ‘"s'" to the word return, so that it will read re¬ turns. I'HE PRESIDENT—The Secretary states that it is a mis¬ take in the printed copy. Do you withdraw the amendment? MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—There is another matter in the amendment. The amendment was read: Amend line two, Section 4, by striking out the word State, before the word Auditor and Treas¬ urer. MR. BROOKS—In order to have repetition of amendments of that kind, because we have had several, I move to amend the Article by striking* out the word ''State'’ wherever it appears in the Article before the words “Auditor" and "Treasurer." THE PRESIDENT—Under the rule it cannot be done. The ordinance has to be considered section by section, and no section of the ordinance except section four is now open for amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—On behalf of the Committee, we accept the amendment, striking out the word "State" before "Auditor" and "Treasurer." MR. WATTS—That ought to be amended also where it oc¬ curs in the third line from the end of the section. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The Committee accepts that also. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—It also occurs in the 13th and 14th lines. MR. FITTS—That has been accepted by the Committee. The motion being to amend Section 4 by striking out the word State wherever it occurs before the words "Auditor" and "Treas¬ urer" in Section 4, the motion was carried. 530 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Amendment by Mr. Graham (Talladega): Amend line ten. Section 4, by substituting the word “any” for the word “either.” . MR. JONES (Montgomery)—^We accept that, Mr. President; it is a distinction without a difference. MR. ROBINSON—I have an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 4, by inserting after the word Convention in the ninth line, the following: “But said objection shall be de¬ termined without debate or delay, and the power of said Con¬ vention shall be limited by that of the Speaker.” The Committee asks for the reading of the amendment, and it was again read. MR. ROBINSON—Mr. President, that amendment is to de¬ fine and limit the powers of the joint convention.' That is that they shall decide the objection that is made before the speaker, without debate and without delay, and the power and duties of the Convention are limited by the power and duties of the Speaker. If that Section stands as it is, the Convention might decide that under it they had the power to go behind the returns, and had the power to declare the returns fraudulent, and they might have the power to debate it and to delay, and this simply proposes to define and limit the power of the joint Convention to that of the Speaker. That is, to examine the returns upon their face, and pass upon them, then and there, by a vote. The Chair stated the question to be upon the adoption of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Chambers. A di¬ vision was called for, and by a vote of 55 ayes and 51 noes the amendment was adopted. Mr. Fitts changed his vote from the negative to the affirma¬ tive for the purpose of moving a reconsideration. MR. FITTS—I move to reconsider the vote by which that amendment was adopted, and I ask for another reading of the amendment. The amendment was read again. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order, that the gentleman cannot ask for a reconsideration of the vote, unless he voted for it. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman changed his vote from the negative to the affirmative for the purpose of moving a re¬ consideration. MR. REESE—I make the point of order that a reconsidera¬ tion cannot now be had. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 531 THE PRESIDENT—The Chair was just referrinir to the rule. In the opinion of the Chair it would over until tomorrow. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move a suspension of the rules, and that this motion to reconsider be now taken up, and disposed of by this body. I want to say, Mr. President, that we are on this Section now, and it seems to me more orderly to first g’et rid of this Section before we Ro to another, and for that reason I make the motion. The motion to suspend the rules was carried, on a division, 86 ayes to 30 noes. MR, FITTS—Now, Mr. President, I call up my motion to reconsider, and upon that I desire to be heard. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that the gentleman cannot change his vote from an aye to a negative vote, on a rising vote, and without an aye and nay vote. MR. deGRAFFENREID—The gentleman’s objection comes too late. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that the point is made too late, if there is merit in it at all. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Tuscaloosa to reconsider the vote whereby this Convention adopted the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Chambers. MR. FITTS—Now I ask that the amendment of the gentle¬ man from Chambers be read. The amendment was again read. MR. FITTS—Mr. President, your Committee feels that it owes the House an apology for having had to consume this time, and ask for this reconsideration. We were talking at the time the motion was being put. We really ought to have called atten¬ tion to what we think is a fatal error, and a fatal danger in the amendment of the distinguished gentleman from Chambers. You will notice that the Section makes it the duty of the Speaker, when he assembles the joint Convention, to count the vote, purely min¬ isterial. Now, if you stand by the vote that you took a moment ago, and make the power of the joint Convention bound by the limitations which confine the Speaker, you make the power of the Convention purely ministerial, and no matter how grossly erron¬ eous might be the contents of the envelopes when broken at the desk, palpably erroneous, they would simply have to be checked down, and called off, and the final result declared, no matter how erroneous it might appear. 532 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. ROBINSON—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. FITTS—Certainly. MR. ROBINSON—Isn’t that all that the amendment pro¬ poses to do, and isn’t that all that it does do? MR. FITTS—That is the fact, that is exactly what the gen¬ tleman proposes, and the Committee respectfully thinks that would be a dangerous thing to do. While the duties of the Speaker ought to be purely ministerial, and while he ought to open those envelopes and count the result, there might possibly be occasions when that joint Convention should have some more power than the mere checking and chalking down of the returns. There are constantly arising, when the two houses meet to canvass the re¬ sult, the most glaring errors. On one occasion, it is well known here, that the person who was running for Attorney General in this State was voted for for Treasurer, and the one that was run¬ ning for Treasurer was voted for for Attorney General in several counties in the State. There ought to be a reserved power to correct errors that are apparent, to carry out the intention of the voters. For that reason the Committee think we had better pause, and consider the proposition as to whether or not the joint Con¬ vention when it assembles should be confined strictly to a mere counting and adding up of the returns, no matter how erroneous they may appear to be set down. It is for that reason we desire to call attention to it. MR. PILLANS—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. FITTS—Certainly. MR. PILLANS—^Were the votes for a particular gentleman for Treasurer counted as though they had been cast for Attorney General on the occasion mentioned, and were the votes cast for the other gentleman for Attorney General counted as though they had been cast for Treasurer? MR. FITTS—In that particular instance it made no differ¬ ence and they were counted as they were actually opened there; counted erroneously, because it made no difference in the general result. MR. PILLANS—May I ask another question? MR. FITTS—Certainly. MR. PILLANS—Is it the opinion of the Committee in such a case, where it would make a difference, that the vote ought to be reversed to meet the supposed intention of the voters? MR. FITTS—I suppose there ought to be some power in the joint Convention, in as important an assembly as the Senate and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 S35 House assembled together, in a time of emergency, to carry out the real intention of the people. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I rise in the interest of the amend- ment of the gentleman from Chambers. The question it seems to me before this body is this, whether the power of electing the officers of this State shall be with the people, or with the General xAssembly of Alabama. It seems to me that is the only question under consideration. If we do not limit the powers of the General Assembly to that of a mere ministerial body, they can, whenever they wish to change the result, come up here and defeat or elect any one, before the General Assembly of the State of Alabama. MR. JENKINS—I was on that Committee, and I hate very much to differ with the members of the Committee— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If the gentleman from Wilcox will pardon me I have a substitute that I think will meet the views of my friend from Chambers. MR. JENKINS—I yield to the gentleman from Montgom¬ ery. THE PRESIDENT—The question now is on the motion to reconsider. For the information of the Convention the Chair will direct the Secretary to read the proposed amendment. The amendment was read. MR. JENKINS—I yield to the gentleman for the reading of the substitute. The substitute was read as follows: ‘'Amend Section 4, line nine, by adding after the words, “joint convention,’' the words, “whose functions shall be minis¬ terial merely and confined to the opening and publishing of proper returns and declaring the result, MR. CHAPMAN—Does that say “proper." THE SECRETARY—Yes, sir. MR. JENKINS—Mr. President, I really think all that ought to be stricken out, from the word Convention, because it is possible, as the gentleman from Sumter has said, for the General Assembly to come here and declare an irregularity of some sort in an election and defeat the will of the people. These questions of irregularity ought to be gone into by the Committees and examined by affi¬ davits and evidence, before the election committees, and let the election committees report, as further provided in the article. I do not see any necessity for a change in the present Constitution on that particular point, and I really believe it would be a good 534 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS suggestion to strike out all the words between the first semi-colon in the seventh line, and the period after the word Convention, in the ninth line, and leave it exactly— THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will remind the gentleman that the question before the house is the question of reconsidera¬ tion. MR. JENKINS—Well, I am speaking, Mr. President, if the Chair will pardon me, to that point. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will proceed. The Chair was under a different impression. (Laughter.) MR. JENKINS—I was merely suggesting to the Chair that I was going to offer an amendment to strike out, if the gentleman's amendment failed, and for that reason, I am opposed to reconsid¬ eration, because I think his amendment is a good one and covers the point; although I think that the whole clause ought to be stricken out. But I take it the gentleman from Chambers has covered the ground. Now this is a very serious proposition of allowing the legislature to pass upon these returns, other than as they are read from the Speaker’s desk, because there is the evidence and that is the only evidence before that Convention and if you allow them to depart in the least from it, why then they decide what they think the people want, and not what as a matter of fact the people decided. I shall vote against a reconsideration. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to inquire of my friend of Chambers if the substitute I proposed meets the objection he wished to obviate, in the language as it now stands? MR. ROBINSON—I think that the amendment offered by myself is clearer and better and ought to prevail, and I do not want reconsideration. MR, JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President I regret very much, that as Chairman of the Committee, I have to appear on the floor so often. The original change reported by the Commit¬ tee from the present Constitution, was to remove doubt and ob¬ scurity, as to the power of the Speaker of the House; about which a controversy has existed ever since the foundation of the United States, until the Tilden and Hayes election. There never has been an hour in the history of Alabama, when, if the General Assembly in joint convention refused to do its duty, and to count the votes and declare the result that the officer who was elected by the peo¬ ple had any constitutional remedy. Therefore, the Committee deemed it wise to insert that the Speaker’s duties are ministerial merely. Speaking in behalf of the Committee, I desire to say we are thoroughly in accord with the purposes expressed by my friend from Chambers, for whose common sen.se and legal learning we have great respect: but I do submit that when the amendment CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 53S offered by the g^entleman says that the power of the joint conven¬ tion shall be the same as that of the Speaker, and the section re¬ ported by the Committee, above the place where the amendment comes in says the Speaker shall be controlled by the joint con¬ vention it certainly does not carry out what is in the brain of my friend from Chambers, The Speaker can't be subject to control of the joint convention and yet have equal powers. Now, what I understand he objects to, is that this joint convention might go behind the returns. As the section now reads in the Constitu¬ tion, it is very clear that legally they could not do it, because it says contested elections shall be determined in such manner as shall be prescribed by law, by the two Houses. Take this case,. Mr. President. I knew it to occur in this House. Two returns were sent in, contrary to law, at a date different from that pre¬ scribed by law. Suppose the election had turned upon whether those two returns were excluded or counted. I happened to be the occupant of the Chair at that time, and remarked that to avoid creating a precedent, or claim of power in the Speaker, to de¬ termine those questions, that the Speaker would take the advise of the joint convention. I remember among some very eminent members, the late Mr. Hewitt of Jefferson County, protested against the Speaker's surrendering the power that he claimed he had under the Constitution to decide for himself. Now, when it comes to the returns, a Speaker ma^^ say this return is not genuine, I refuse to count it. Under the section as proposed, an appeal can be taken, and the joint convention can say you shall count it. It seems to me, Mr. President, that if the amendment, offered by me, adding that the powers of the joint convention shall be ministerial merely, and confined to the open¬ ing, publishing and declaring the result of proper returns, this is as good a safeguard as we can have and the only one that we put in the Constitution, unless we provide some appeal from the action of the joint convention, MR. COBB—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a question? MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. COBB—What is the probable effect of that word proper you have got in there? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Ah, there is a great deal in that. MR. COBB—That is why I ask. It gives that convention the same power they have under your original proposition. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Exactly, The words were used advisedly. Suppose the returns came up here, not signed by the proper officer. I have known a case where the returns were signed by three men, and it turned out that the Probate Judge and other officers were incompetent, and, therefore, they had se- 536 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS lected these gentlemen to serve as returning board in their stead, and they properly sent up the returns, but there was not a word on the face of those returns showing how these gentlemen came to be there, or why they had any more right than John Smith, or James Brown, or John Jones, or any other citizen of Alabama, to sign it. Now I say on its face that was not a proper return. It may be that a return comes here, Mr. President, that has been tampered with. There are a great many cases which the word proper would cover, which I cannot define just at this time, and which my friend from Macon, 1 doubt, cannot define. We have to trust somebody, and the amendment offered by me is in the direction of defining the power of the joint convention in further¬ ance of the idea of the gentleman from Chambers. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I would like to ask the chairman of the committee a question. MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. CUNNINGHAM—After the word defect, in the eighth line, what is meant by the phrase '‘or other cause?'' What is the limitation of that? How far does that go back? MR, JONES—Well the cause that was in the mind of the draftsman of that, was where the return had been tampered with; for instance, I remember in one case, a member said it is a matter of no moment in the particular case, but those figures have been tampered with, and if you put your magnifying glass there you will see it. Well, it might be material— MR. CUNNINGHAM--I will ask the chairman of the com¬ mittee, suppose that a member of that joint convention should be on the opposite party to the supposed candidate for State offices that have been elected and he should raise the question of the honesty of the election in any given county; does the words “other causes" embrace that proposition? MR. JONES—I think it would, to be frank, it might give excuse for so doing without the amendment which I offered. It had not occurred to me, but I think it might be tortured into that. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Then the joint convention, as I un¬ derstand it, would really act as a body before whom one could decide these things of their own accord? MR. JONES—Not under the Constitution, because right be¬ low it the section declares how contests of elections shall be de¬ termined. The joint convention is a tribunal which must have some power to declare the result, reject improper returns, etc., and I know of no way of preventing them under the guise of counting and publishing, from contesting, if the language here does no^- prevent it. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 537 MR. LOWE—It seems to me the original proposition of the committee and the amendment, will tend to render this entire section incongruous and irreconciliable. I believe the provision of the old Constitution is amply sufficient. However, I would not be prepared now to stickle as to the terms and to consume the time of the Convention in debating as to phraseolog^y, but I should dislike to see engrafted in a section of the Constitution as im¬ portant as that we are now considering, a proposition that would render the section totally irreconcilable with itself. The propo¬ sition that now comes into this phraseology is making the Speaker a ministerial officer and making the two houses when assembled purely ministerial. That is the tendency of the amendment. But the amendment does not reach the section of the Constitution be¬ ginning with line 13, the last clause of this section. Beginning at the thirteenth line of this Section 4, it reads: “Contested elections for Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Secretary of State, State Au¬ ditor, State Treasurer, Attorney-General, Superintendent of Edu¬ cation, Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, shall be de¬ termined by both houses of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law.’’ In such manner as w^ho may pre¬ scribe? There would be but one law and that would be that the power was vested in the two houses assembled to count the vote. Now, will you say, in Section 9, that the power of the two houses in counting the vote shall be purely ministerial and then say, in line 13 of this section that the power of the two houses to determine contests arising shall be absolute? Let it mean one thing or the other. Let us strike out one provision or the other. That matter is so plain to my mind merely as a matter of truth that a Constitution should not contain clauses inconsistent with themselves, that I hardly think it necessary to debate it. That the simple statement of the proposition is sufficient, and I, there¬ fore, move that this Section 4 be re-referred to the committee. THE PRESIDENT—The question right now is on a motion to reconsider. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—I thought the motion to reconsider had prevailed. THE PRESIDENT—It has not been carried. It is under debate. MR. ROBINSON—The powers of the joint convention under this section, as prepared and reported by the Executive Committee, are that it shall consider objections made. That is the question. Now, in considering that question, the sole purpose of that amend¬ ment is that it shall be submitted without delay, then and there, without debate, simply to examine the face of the returns and see what they show and that the whole power of that joint conven¬ tion is limited to the power of the Speaker. It it as plain as it can be. The General Assembly has the power to decide contests for 538 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS these State offices. They may decide then and there that they will decide that contest. What prevents them? They may declare, and that objection might go, that they would desire to go behind the returns made by the State officers in several of the counties; that convention might declare that they had a right to go behind those returns and consider all questions that affect the election of a particular officer. Some gentleman might object because he says the returns from a certain county are fraudulent. He might make the objection on the ground. Then that joint convention, con¬ struing that power without limitation offered by me, would go into an investigation of that question and inquire into the frauds and determine the question and set aside the prima facie case made by the returns of the officers. Now, I cannot see why this ought to be reconsidered. That amendment is as plain and as unambiguous as it can be. It limits the powers of the joint convention to those possessed by the Speaker, simply to examine the returns upon the face of them, and to determine that question without delay or debate, just as the Speaker would do it. I cannot see that there can be any ob¬ jection to that unless the gentlemen of this convention desire to give the joint convention the power to go behind the returns and take charge of that question and when they take charge for one purpose they take charge of it for all. The delegate from Tuscaloosa desires to correct errors! When you open the door to correct errors, where are you going to shut it? When you depart from an inspection of those returns as they appear upon the face, you open the door for the joint convention to do whatever they may desire to do, so far as that particular question is concerned. That is unwise and it will be productive of great evil to give that convention any powers except to examine the face of the returns and receive or reject them. MR. FITTS—Your committee are not at all partisan in this matter and have no desire to fix this in any way but as the con¬ vention wants it fixed. We thought the amendment offered by the delegate from Chambers as far-reaching, and in that we were right. We thought we ought to ask this reconsideration because we failed to make any statement to call your attention to it just then. We are perfectly willing to do the work over again and fix it any way the convention wants it done. We are the servants of this convention. We want to understand the convention and to have the convention understand us. It does seem to us that if you write down in this particular section on page 5 that the duties of the Speaker are purely ministerial and then provide that the duties of the joint convention, these two Houses, are purely ministerial, that that sets a hard and fast rule. MR. ROBINSON—Will the gentleman permit an interrup¬ tion? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 539 MR. FITTS—Certainly. MR. ROBINSON—I would like to ask him to explain the difference between that and my measure. MR. FITTS—I will. Then the further proposition when you add to that that the duties of the entire Assembly, of the two Houses are purely ministerial, that is a hard and fast rule that they cannot get away from and then you go on to the next page and you show that it was intended that the two Houses should have some power and you say if there is a tie they shall decide it and if there is a contest for one of the State offices, it cannot mean anything but a contest, that it shall be settled according to such views as they may have. If, therefore, you fix the first half of this section according to the amendment submitted bv the gen¬ tleman from Chambers, it is directly contrary to the meaning and intention of the latter part of it reported by your committee. If the amendment means anything it means that in no event shall the joint convention of the two Houses have any power. As I say, the committee is wdthout any desire to be partisan. They simply want to get before the House the far-reaching effect of the amendment offered by the gentleman and after the con¬ vention understands and determines it, if it is the desire that it should be sent back to the committee so as to make it harmonize, the committee will attend to it to the best of its ability. MR. BROWNE—I do not think the section as amended by the gentleman from Chambers is subject to the objection made by the gentleman from Jefferson and as conceded by the gentle¬ men of the committee. The first part of the section says it shall be the duty of the Speaker, to open and publish the returns in the presence of both Houses of the General Assembly in joint con¬ vention—that is the duty of the Speaker—and the joint convention is to canvass the returns and declare the result where there is no contest. Then the latter part of Section 4 provides that where there is a contest it shall be decided by both Houses of the General Assembly, but not in joint convention, but by both Houses in General Assembly in such manner as may be prescribed by law, presupposing that the General Assembly will enact some law regulating contests to be had and decided by the General Assem¬ bly. And it does not seem to me that there would be any conflict in the two provisions in the section as amended either the amend¬ ment proposed by the gentleman from Chambers or the substitute by the Chairman of the committee. A vote being taken on the motion to reconsider on division resulted 66 yeas and 56 nays. So the motion to reconsider was carried. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I offer a resolution. S40 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The resolution was read as follows: Resolved that it is the sense of the convention that Section 4 of the ordinance to create and define the executive Department is ambi^^uous and should be recommitted to the Committee on Re¬ vision. MR. ROGERS—I move to suspend the rules that that reso¬ lution may be put upon its passage. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is of the opinion that a mo¬ tion to recommit is in order with a suspension of the rules. MR. JONES—The committee is perfectly willing to have this matter recommitted so as to conform to the desire of the House, but we are unwilling, unless the House compels us, to take it back now when we cannot understand what the wishes and will of the House are. And, if my friend from Chambers will permit me one minute, I think I can convince him we are anxious to do what he says. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment of the delegate from Chambers. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I thought it was on the mo¬ tion to recommit. The PRESIDENT—The gentleman is correct. The question was on the amendment of the delegate from Chambers and there¬ upon the gentleman from Sumter moved to recommit, which has precedence of a motion to amend, and the question now is on the motion to recommit, and the chair recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, and the reason the chair asked the gentleman to suspend was to obtain order so that the delegates could hear what committee desires to make an explanation. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I want to call the attention of my friend from Chambers to one fact. The language is that the Speaker shall be under the control of the joint convention, and the amendment of the delegate from Chambers says that the joint convention shall not have any more power than the Speaker. One cannot be under the control of the other, if each has equal power. I think the gentleman overlooked that in the hurry. If the House passes some resolution declaring what is the sense of the con¬ vention as to the power of the joint convention when it comes to count the vote, and declare what it wants more exactly, the com¬ mittee will be glad to take the matter up and report on it; but in the absence of some such declaration, I move to postpone the mo¬ tion to recommit indefinitely. MR. REESE—I rise to a point of order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 541 THE PRESIDENT—The chair would rule that a motion to indefinitely postpone would not apply. The motion to recommit has precedence. MR. REESE—And on the motion to recommit, I move the previous question. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I would ask the g^entleman to withdraw that just a moment. It is clear that whether this section is ambiguous or not, it is ambiguous in the minds of a g^reat many of us, and in order to gj'ive the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment a chance to make it clear, I move for the recommitment, and onh' for that purpose. THE PRESIDENT—And upon the motion, the gfentleman from Dallas demands the previous question, and the question is, shall the main question now be put? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Who is entitled to the close on that? Is it the chairman of the committee who has charge of the matter, or the gentleman who makes the motion to recommit? THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the chair that the gentle¬ man from Sumter, as it is his motion, would be entitled to the close. MR. JONES—If the gentleman of the committee— The president—^D oes the gentleman from Dallas with¬ draw his motion for the previous question? The chairman of the committee desires to make an explanation. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I simply want to make a re¬ quest to find out what is wanted. MR. REESE—I decline to withdraw the motion for the pre¬ vious question. A vote being taken, the main question was ordered. The vote on division being 67 yeas and 38 nays. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the delegate from Sumter to recommit this section to the Committee on the Executive Department. A vote being taken, the motion to recommit was carried. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Now, if I am in order, I wish to state in behalf of the committee, that we shall be very much obliged to our friend from Sumter who says the ordinance is ob¬ scure, if he will kindly write out what he thinks will remove the obscurity. Mr. Reese here took the chair as President pro tern. 542 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The Secretary will read the next section. Section 5 was read as follows: Section 5. The Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, Attorney-General, State Auditor, Superin¬ tendent of Education and Commissioner of Ag^riculture and In¬ dustries, shall hold their respective offices for the term of four 3 rears from the first day of December of the year in which they shall have been elected, and until their successors shall be elect¬ ed and qualified, and after the first election under this Constitu¬ tion neither of them shall be eligible as his own successor; and the Governor shall not be eligible to election to any office under this State within one year after the expiration of his term; and his acceptance of the office of Governor shall be a pledge to the people not to accept an election or appointment to the Senate of the United States at any time during his term, or within one year thereafter. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—There is an amendment by the Committee which the Clerk will read, please. The amendment was read as follows: Amend by inserting the words “elected in the year 1902“ between the words “Agriculture and Industries,” and “shall.” THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.^—The amendment of the Committee is before the House. MR. WALKER—I offer to amend the amendment of the Committee by adding after the word “1902” the following, “and each fourth year thereafter.” THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The question before the House is on the amendment of the gentleman from Madison to the amendment of the Committee. MR. WALKER—The amendment offered by the Committee simply makes provisions as to the terms of office of those elected in 1902. The amendment offered by myself clears away the am¬ biguity, and makes the terms apply not only to those elected at that time but to the officers elected thereafter as well. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—We are anxious to accept any¬ thing coming from so eminent a source, but if the officers hold for four years after that time, how can there be any ambiguity about it ? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The question is on the amendment of the delegate from Madison. MR. O’NEAL—ask that the Section as amended by both amendments be read. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 543 The Section as it would be with both amendments was read as follows: Sec. 5. The Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, Attorney General, State Auditor, Commis¬ sioner of Agriculture and Industries shall hold elected in the year 1902, and every fourth year thereafter, their respective of¬ fices for the term of four years from the first day of December of the year in which they shall have been elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified, and after the first election under this Constitution neither of them shall be eligible as his own successor, and the Governor shall not be eligible to election to any office under this State within one year after the expiration of his term; and his acceptance of the office of Governor shall be a pledge to the people not to accept an election or appointment to the Senate of the United States at any time during his term or within one year thereafter. MR. LOMAX—The remarks of the Chairman of the Commit¬ tee show that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Madison is entirely unnecessary and I therefore move to lay that amendment on the table. The motion was carried. MR. GREER (Perry)—As a matter of euphony, I move to strike out the word “State” before the words “Auditor and Treas¬ urer.” MR. PETTUS—I rise to a point of order. The amendment by the Committee is the question before the Convention. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I submit when a Committee has reported an ordinance it has a right to amend its own or¬ dinance, just like one who makes a motion has the right to amend it. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—That must be upon the theory of unanimous consent. If there is no objection the report can be amended as asked by the Committee. There was no objection. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move to amend Section 5 ^ by striking therefrom all of the section following the words “ex¬ piration of his term” in the seventh line. The effect of that amendment if adopted by this convention would be to strike from Section 5 so much of the section which reads as follows: “and his acceptance of the office of Governor shall be a pledge to the people not to accept an election or appoint¬ ment to the Senate of the United States at any time during his term, or within one year thereafter.” The section above that 544 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS provides that the Governor shall not be elig^ible to any office with¬ in the gift of the people, that is, shall not be eligible to any State office within one year after the expiration of his term. My ob¬ jection to this latter clause which I move to strike from the sec¬ tion, is this: We are adopting a Constitution for a State, We should not put into that Constitution anything that is not law because a Constitution is the fundamental law of the State and we should not attempt to do anything, we should not attempt to put anything in there that we have not the power to enforce. The expressions used by the committee in this article disclose to this convention the fact that we are attempting by this clause to do something that we have no legal power to do and to require the Governor to pledge himself not to do something which if he does, for the doing of which we can inflict no penalty. We say this acceptance of the office will be a pledge to the people not to accept an election or appointment as a United States Senator at any time during his term or one year thereafter. But suppose he were to accept such a position, would not we be helpless? What could we do? A legislative body unless there are rules to the contrary is a law unto itself. It is omnipotent in passing on the qualifica¬ tions of its own members. And so when a man who has been Governor of a State received in a legal form the office of United States Senator, there would be nothing on the Senate to prohibit them from adopting him into their body as a member thereof, MR. WHITE—It is not his acceptance of the office but his trying to get office that we are endeavoring to get rid of. MR, deGRAFFENRElD—Yes, I see the evil and I think so far as the convention is able legally to do it, we ought to Avithhold from the Governor any temptation to improperly use the power the law places in his hand. But the objection is we are under¬ taking to do that in an instrument that purports to be a legal in¬ strument that purports to speak only the law and we are thereby attempting to do something that if it is disobeyed there is no power to enforce a penalty. MR. BURNETT—Suppose we should engraft this in the Con¬ stitution and the Legislature should elect a Governor to the United States Senate during his term or within one year thereafter, do you think that the Senate of the United States would decline to allow him to take his seat? MR. deGRAFFENREID—I will answer your question by re¬ ferring to something that happened in the history of this Govern¬ ment. When John Randolph of Virginia first appeared before the House of Representatives and asked to be sworn in as a member of that House, he was under the age of 25 years, and some man arose and challenged his right to the seat. MR. BURNETT—Let me ask you another question. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 545 MR. deGRAFFENREID—I am answering^ your question now. Some man arose and challenged his right to take his seat and asked him if he was of age to sit in that body and he replied: **Ask my constituents/' and they seated him regardless of the dis¬ ability. MR. DENT—Can I ask the gentleman from Hale a question? MR. deGRAFFENREID— You can all ask if you will just do it one at a time. THE PRESIDENT (who had resumed his seat some time during Mr. deGraffenreid's remarks)—To which does the gentle¬ man from Hale desire to respond? MR. deGRAFFENREID—The delegate Mr. Burnett was the first one who interrogated me. MR. BURNETT—The Constitution didn't say that John Ran¬ dolph was of age, did it? MR. deGRAFFENREID—No, sir; but if it had, it was ad¬ mitted he was under 25 years of age, I simply alluded to that to show that it would be entirely as to what the members of the Senate or House should determine when the question arose. MR. DENT—I think there is a mistake in the historical state¬ ment. My understanding was that Randolph was not 25 when he was elected but he was 25 when he presented himself for a seat. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I don’t remember exactly about that. But I happened to be reading on the question of suffrage yesterday on the qualifications of members of the House, and saw that. MR. HINSON—Does not the United States Constitution re¬ quire that a member of Congress be 25 years of age? MR. deGRAFFENREID—Yes. MR. HINSON—Then does not the United States Constitu¬ tion contain something that cannot be enforced? MR. deGRAFFENREID—I said unless there was something in the law to the contrary which controlled the body, the body was a law unto itself. I have never investigated the question of whether the Senate could admit a man under 25. The point I am endeavoring to make is that each deliberative body is a law unto itself. And by the Constitution is to be the sole judge of the quali¬ fications of its members. MR. CHAPMAN—Would it not be entirely proper for this convention to make a provision that the General Assembly should not elect as Senator any man who had been Governor within one year of the time of this election as Senator? plfFieiAl. pbocbewngs m MR. d«GRAFFENRBJD—^That is not the question to which I am speakings and I have never investigated it> but ii the Legis¬ lature were to i^ect a Senator contrsuy to this provision and the man appeared at the bar of the Senate and offered to be sworn in as a member of that body, it would not be the courts of Ala¬ bama, but the members of the United States Senate, who would determine whether or not he was entitled to a seat in the body. MR. WHITE—^Has not the Senate of the United States power to seat a man that the Legislature did not elect? MR. deGRAFFENRElD—^They are the judges of the quali¬ fications of their members in that regard. As I was going to say, I am in sympathy with the purpose of this Section 5, and believe that as far as possible, we should remove the temptation from the Governor of our State to use his office for political purposes and for his own political advancement. If, Mr. President, all of our Governors were like the man whose remains were carried from this Capitol today, or, if they were all like the man who has succeeded him, there would be no reason for such a provision as contempated in Section 5, but our history and the exp*erience of our people indicate to the contrary. My objection to this is purely technical that we should not put in the Constitution as a part of the fundamental law anything that is not law and that cannot be enforced as law by the courts of this State. MR, LONG (Walker)—I have a substitute for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale. The substitute was read as follows: “Amend Section 5 by adding the words “or appointment” after the word “election” in the sixth line, and further by striking out all the words after the word “term” in the seventh line. MR. LONG (Walker)—I am not posted in natural history, but it seems to me that this section is an Armadillo, one of those ambiguous animals that, we all used to hear so much about. With my amendment adopted, this section would read, beginning in the sixth line, “and the Governor shall not be eligible to election or appointment to any office under this State within one year after the expiration of his term,” Then we go on further in this and put him under pledge. It seems to me that is a very ambiguous animal. MR. BROOKS—I had prepared an amendment to strike out the last clause of Section 5, but the amendment of the delegate from Hale entirely covers that. I desire to speak to that amend¬ ment. I favor the general purpose of Section 5, but the last clause appears to me to contain a provision which is inappropriate in a Constitution. I am free to confess my unfamiliarity with the 547 constitutional convention. 1901 M-eat mass of ow different State Constitutions, but my limited observation leads me ta believe that such a provision of this is, to say the least of it, uniatte in constitutional structure. As has been well said by the gentleman from Hale a Constitution is the organic law, the fundamental law of the land, designed to operate upon the people cither through some self-enforcing power of its own or through some provision or legislative enactment. “Ut 1 submit that this last clause is not susceptible to enforcement by either of those means. The evident purpose of Governor of the State ineligible to the office of United States Senator at any time during his term or within one year thereat- ter But why does it not express that ineligibility m direct and express terms. Why does it not say clearly and d»stincdy that he shall not be eligible to the office of Senator and that he shall not be eligible within one year after his term to any office in the State It is probable that the committee saw some obstacle m the way in the Federal Constitution or laws respecting the quali¬ fications of Senators. I am not prepared to say that such con¬ sideration would impose upon them any insuperable difficulty, but the fact remains that we have in this provision a proposition to make thd Governor ineligible by a mere pledge to the people. How do they propose to do it? Simply by tacking a moral sanc¬ tion to the Governors accepting the office in the way of a pledge to the people. That is the proposition. This is a sort of inchoate or intended or suggested prohibition upon the right of the gov¬ ernor to accept an election to the United States Senate while he is Governor or within twelve months thereafter. Now, I submit, as a rule, moral propositions don’t generally enforce themselves, and there is no way by any legal sanction in any power of enforcement in the Constitution or by any legislative enactment to enforce this moral sanction. Therefore, it seems to me it is a mere hrutum fUlmen. It cannot carry out itself, and It cannot be enforced by any law, and, therefore, I favor the amendment of the delegate from Hale to strike that last clause out. MR. CHAPMAN—I have an amendment to the amendment of the delegate from Walker. THE PRESIDENT—The chair would suggest to the gen¬ tleman that an amendment to an amendment is already pending, and an additional amendment would not be in order at this time. MR. SANFORD—I move that we adjourn. MR. JONES—^And I move that when we do adjourn it be to 3 o’clock tomorrow. THE PRESIDENT-—A resolution has already been passed adjourning till two thirty .tomorrow and without a reconsidera¬ tion it would not be in order to change that time. 548 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Of course, I yield to the Chair, but I do so unwillingly. I think it is always competent \vhen a motion to adjourn is made for the house to say to what time it will adjourn. THE PRESIDENT—That question has already been deter¬ mined by the house by passing a resolution that when it does ad¬ journ it will adjourn until 2:30 tomorrow, and unless there is a reconsideration, it would not be in order to change that time. A vote being taken on the motion to adjourn it was lost. THE PRESIDENT—The question is now on the amendment of the delegate from Walker. The section as it would be if amended according to this amendment was read and a vote being taken the amendment was lost, the division resulting 36 yeas and 60 nays. So the substitute was lost. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I move to amend by striking out after the word “qualified” in the fifth line, the balance of said section. I do that for the sole purpose of allowing the people of Alabama to take care of their own officers. THE PRESIDENT—The question before the House is the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale to Section 5 as reported by the Committee. Does the gentleman desire to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Hale? MR. GREER—Yes. It seems to me it would be unwise for this Convention to say that the people of .Alabama should or should not choose their officers from any sphere in life. I repeat, the ob¬ ject of my substitute or amendment is solely to allow any man in the State of Alabama to aspire to any office within the g^ift of the people at any time and to allow the people of Alabama to pass upon his qualifications to said office. I do not remember within my brief knowledge of the history of the State of Alabama where any gentleman has prostituted the office in trying to get o the United States Senate. But if he has, the people themselves have pa.ssed upon that matter and doubtless have passed on it wisely. If they have been wise enough in the past to pass upon the qualifications of one m the (xovernor’s chair seeking the po- in'the futl/re Th Senator, they will continue to be as wise in the future. The adoption of tins section reported by the Com- mittee may prevent at some time in the future the people of Ala- barna from getting the very best man that residL within her borders as a representative in the United States Senate It mav prevent them from getting the best they have in the' Stat^ S officers to succeed themselves and for these reasons, briefly stated I am in favor of striking out all of that part of the section which says a man shall or shall not be eligible to re-election or shlS or CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 549 shall not be a candidate for office within a certain time after he holds a certain office. He seems to me mere child's play. And for that reason I think the Convention should allow the people of Alabama to pass upon the question. MR. WHITE—I do not suppose any of us feel that a Gov¬ ernor will ever be elected to the United States Senate. That has been tried. But the trouble is in convincing g^entlemen that they can’t be elected. We are told that this provision is not enforcible because the Senate of the United States can disreg-ard this pro¬ vision and can seat a member notwithstanding this provision in our Constitution. We mie^ht, with equal force say that the Sen¬ ate of the United States can seat a man who has been elected by bribery, and therefore you need not pass any laws against bribery. You mi^ht as well say because the Senate of the United States in the exercise of its power can seat a man receiving a minority of the votes of the leg’islature, that we need not insist upon a majority vote for him. However, this may act or whatever in¬ fluence it may have uoon the Senate of the United States what we are to look at is the influence it will have upon the Governor in determining- whether he will be a candidate in violation of his oath when he takes an oath to support the Constitution of the State with this pledge in it. Some man might desire a seat bad enough in the Senate to attempt it, but no man who would do that would command enough respect by the people of Alabama to even be considered for the place. Therefore, I am in favor of the provision as contained in the Committee’s report. I am opposed to the amendment offered by the delegate from Calhoun and also the amendment offered by the delegate from Hale. I need not appeal to you and point you to our experience in the past. You know what that is as well as I do, and I say, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, if we can accomplish that which we intended by this provision we will have accom¬ plished a great deal for the people of Alabama. They tell us that we are not concerned about a man’s ambition. That is true pos¬ sibly when he is not our servant, but when we installed him in the gubernatorial office and entrust to him the welfare of the State, we do have an interest in his ambition. MR. SANFORD—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. WHITE—Certainly. MR. SANFORD—-Is it not a fact that this is a limitation up¬ on the rights of the people to vote for any man they please for any office, and, therefore, it is not a disfranchisement of the peo¬ ple so far as that is concerned? MR. WHITE—No, sir. If I understand it, it is a bridle to the ambitions of a man who wants to make the gubernatorial chair a stepping stone to the Senate, that and nothing else, and we should 550 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS not place in the hands of the Chief Executive of the State a won¬ derful political influence that he could not wield but for the po¬ sition he holds. I hope both of these amendments will be voted down. MR. OATES—I am fortunately and unfortunately in the category alluded to by my distinguished friend, the delegate from Jefferson. I am one of the ex-Governors who tried to be United States Senator and failed to get there, and I believe any other Governor who has a thousand appointments to make a year will fail to get there. (Laughter.) MR. WHITE—Will the delegate from Montgomery allow me a question? MR. OATES—Certainly. MR. WHITE—Will he fail to try to get there? MR. OATES—I don’t know. As to myself, I never expect to be in that category, and when I got knocked out I never cried about it. I wanted to go but the Legislature didn’t agree with me and I remained at home and consoled myself with the fact that I was beaten by a very good and meritorious man. Now the amendments which are pending I quite agree with my friend from Jefferson in opposing. I oppose the striking out of the disquali¬ fication of the Governor and other officers to succeed themselves. I differ with him decidedly on that, but I do agree with the dele¬ gate from Hale, if I understand his motion. I did not hear it dis¬ tinctly. I understand it to be to strike out beginning in the sev¬ enth line the words “and his acceptance of the office of Governor shall be a pledge to the people not to accept an election or ap¬ pointment to the Senate of the United States at any time during his term or within one year thereafter.’’ I am in favor of the motion to strike that out because these words are simplv a po¬ litical declaration here in the Constitution. I am decidedly in favor of denying the Governor the right to succeed himself or to be a candidate for any other office. He is not likely to be a candi¬ date for any office except Senator during his term or for a year after its expiration. And why do I take that position? I agree with the Committee in their purpose but these words, as I said, are only a political declaration and if a man could succeed in be- ing elected while being Governor or within a year thereafter as Senator, the Senator of the United States would have to pass on nis c|U3.1ifications^ 3.nd. that body sometirncs makes pretty erroneous decisions and this part of this Section would not operate on that body to his exclusion, in my opinion, but when the Constitution of his State disqualifies him I think it would be a splendid ob¬ jection which a decided majority of the Senate would not over- come or disregard. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—May I interrupt the gentleman? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 551 MR. OATES—Certainly. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Do you remember the case of Judge Thurman of Ohio, who, while Chief Justice of that State, was elected to the Senate with the provision in their law which said he would not be eligible to any office during his term and the Senate said that could not possibly apply to a Senator? MR. OATES—I do not pretend to say that they have always made correct decisions. I think they have made some very er¬ roneous ones, and if you take the opinion of our late Chief Jus¬ tice Stone, whose opinions I once heard characterized by an emi¬ nent lawyer in very fitting language as being lucidity crystalized —he was certainly of the opinion that he was not eligible to any other office during the entire term for which he was elected. While, as I say, the Senate may disregard this declaration, they may possibly go so far as to seat a man who was elected even when his Constitution denied his eligibility, I do not believe they would, and this is not the test by which the merits of this provi¬ sion should be tried. Now, you know a Senator cannot be elected except by a vote of the members of the Legislature, and when you have that in your Constitution are your members going to perjure themselves to elect a man. He would have a wonderful hold on them if they did. If a man is not eligible by the Consti¬ tution which everyone of those legislators has sworn to support, how could they forswear themselves? I have too much confi¬ dence in any Legislature that the people elect to believe they would do so. So it is not what the Senate of the United States may decide. If a man who held the office of Governor saw proper to make himself a candidate and to try to obtain this high honor he would meet an insuperable difficulty right there for while pos¬ sibly he might find a few members of the Legislature who were so enthused as friends of his to disregard that oath, how would he make it with a majority. He never could do it. And any Gov¬ ernor who is thus rendered ineligible will never during the history of the State of Alabama, while that provision stands in the Con¬ stitution, be elected to the Senate or any other. The limitation will be observed certainly by' those who may have sworn to sup¬ port the Constitution. So I am highly in favor of the amendment of the delegate from Hale, because those words have no part, office or effect, and are more of a political declaration and are not enforcible. No Governor could be subjected to any penalty for disregarding them, and I think those words have no good office in the Constitution and can well be dispensed with. But the other provision about the Governor and other officers I am heartily in accord with and I believe if we adopt the Section with just that stricken out we shall have no difficulty and we will meet the wishes of the people. 552 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. PETTUS—Is there any doubt about the office of Unit¬ ed States Senator being’ an office of this State within the purview of the seventh line. MR. OATES—I will answer the delegate from Limestone who is always bright and pertinent in his inquiries. That even aside from that, neither United States Senators nor Representa¬ tives in Congress are Federal officers. They are State officers. They have to get their commissions from the State of Alabama and they are State officers. While the functions they perform are directed largely b}- the United States Constitution it is an er¬ roneous idea that they are Federal officers. They perform many Federal functions, but they are State officers ancl obtain their commissions from the State of Alabama. .And if a United States Senator or Representative resigns, to whom docs he tender his resignation? Not to the President or the Senate, but to the Gov¬ ernor of Alabama. They are State officers, and I repeat that with the motion of the delegate from Hale adopted striking out these words the Section then adopted will speak volumes in favor of their wisdom. For without making any invidious distinctions or calling anv names, we are all human beings, and more or less ambitious. It is commendible in any man under our form of Government to be ambitious in a commendible in any way. But unfortunately some men in some positions will endeavor to gratifv their ambition by a resort to improper means. And 1 think as the Governor has the distribution of patronage,—and I am glad this Constitution makes him ineligible, because that will naturally tend to make him an impartial officer, and where he has appointments to make if he is a sensible man, a man who has sense to be Governor, all that he can accomplish and the greatest honor he can get by appoint¬ ment is to make such excellent appointments that they will be approved by the people. It is a fact that some man will naturally look to their future when in the office of Governor in their ap¬ pointments, some more and some less in regard to the effect it mav have upon their political future. Of course there are differences m this regard. Some men are more guarded in observing their oaths m making their appointments. Some consider that their power of appointment is intended for the benefit of the people and m making their appointments they first give attention to their own preferences as to qua,hficat)ons and then appoint the man who will discharge the duties of the office as they believe to the very best of his ability. Then there are others. I am persuLed who will be influenced in making their appointments bv the amount of future political services that the appointee can render in the gratification of his ambition and that is the great evil S"rSo'oTpro”vrsi'ol'° '' “'I I ‘Wnk it CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 553 MR. BOONE—I move to lay the amendment of the delegate from Calhoun on the table. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—And on that I demand the yeas and nays. THE PRESIDENT—The question is, is the call for the yeas and nays sustained? The call is not sustained. A vote being taken the motion to table was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment of¬ fered by the delegate from Hale. MR. BROWNE—I desire to offer a substitute to the amend¬ ment of the delegate from Hale. The substitute was read as follows: “Strike out all of Sec¬ tion 5 after the words ‘shall be eligible’ in line six and insert in lieu thereof the following ‘to election or appointment to any office under this State within one year after the expiration of his term.’ ’’ MR. BROWNE—The effect of the amendment will be— MR. BROOKS—I rise to a point of order. I think the amendment offered by the gentleman from Talladega has been passed by the House. The delegate from Walker offered the same amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair does not understand that the proposition of the delegate from Walker covered the proposition of the delegate from Talladega. MR. BROOKS — The amendment offered by the delegate from Talladega is not applicable to the amendment of the dele¬ gate from Hale. It applies to another part of the section. THE PRIfSIDENT—It seems to the Chair that that poinC is well taken. The proposition of the gentleman from Talladega would be an order after the adoption of the other amendment but the Chair will hear the delegate from Talladega. MR. BROWNE—The gentleman from Hale moves to strike out everything after the words “of his term’’ in line seven of Sec¬ tion five, I offer as a substitute for that to amend by striking out not only that but two lines and a half more and inserting something in lieu thereof, which is clearly permissible as a sub¬ stitute for this amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is inclined to overrule the point of order after hearing the explanation of the gentleman from Talladega. 554 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR BROOKS—Will the Chair permit me to explain. The amendment of the delegate (torn Hale was to f clause of Section five. The substitute of the fjentkman from Ta - ladega is nothing more than an amendment, and you cannot of¬ fer an amendment to an amendment, but you can offer another amendment to another part of the section. The original section, the amendment of the delegate from Hale and the amendment or substitute offered by the delegate from Talladega were then read. THE PRESIDENT— The Chair will >tate it is not free from doubt but will overrule the point of order of the delegate from Mobile. MR. BROWNE—I now desire to make an explanation to free it from that doubt. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair rules that you can discuss the merits of the question. MR. BROWNE—I will siinjily call the attention of the mem¬ bers to my substitute. The amendment of the delegates from Hale is to strike out all of Section five from the word “his term” on line seven which is only applicable to the Governor. I offer as a substitute to strike out all after the words “shall be eligible” in the first portion of line si.x so that that includes all that is em¬ braced in the amendment of the delegate from Hale and some¬ thing in addition and I insert in lieu thereof the following so as to make it read “neither of them shall be eligible to an election or appointment to any office under this State within one year after the expiration of his term.” MR. LONG (Walker)—Your amendment, if I understand it, makes the Governor, Lieutenant Governor. Secretary of State. Treasurer, Attorney General, Auditor. Superintendent of Educa¬ tion and Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries all ineligible? MR. BROWNE—Every one of them. MR. LONG (Walker)—Whereas the committee makes onlv the Governor ineligible? MR. BROWNE That is right. If there is any reason whv the Governor should not be eligible to any office within one year after his term, the same reason applies with perhaps not so much force, but certainly with some force to all the other officers It IS within the power of every officer of the State to use his office to some extent to further his political ambition looking towards appointment or election to some other office; and if we are eoin^ to so provide in the Constitution that the Governor shall not be elected to any State office, that he shall not be elected to the United States Senate within a year after the expiration of his teJm CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 555 we might protect the people of Alabama further that the Auditor should not run for Treasurer or the Treasurer for Auditor or any of the State officers for any other offices. They can all get to¬ gether and swap offices and the effect of this would be to put all officers in the same category as the convention seems determined to put the Governor. MR. ASHCRAFT—I heartily concur in the reasons which have been advanced by the gentleman from Talladega for the amendment which he offered to that part of the section, or, rather, as a substitute to the amendment offered by the delegate from Hale. It having been offered in the way it has been, illustrates to us the necessity if we are to vote upon it as a whole, of voting upon two distinct propositions at one time. I think the convention ought to vote upon the question of whether or not it will add this clause to the Constitution, and then also independently and free from that proposition have the privilege of voting upon the ques¬ tion of whether these various State officers may be elected to other offices than the one they are elected to at that time. I think it is proper for us to have that privilege. I am not familiar enough with parliamentary usage to know exactly how to get at it, but it seems to me, as there are two distinct questions, it is a case where we can call for a division, and I, therefore, move, if it is proper, for a division of the question. THE PRESIDENT—The chair does not see how the ques¬ tion can be stated other than the adoption or rejection of the substitute offered by the gentleman for Talladega. MR. ASHCRAFT—I think the gentlemen of the convention ought to have the privilege of l;eing heard on that other propo¬ sition, if we are to vote on this as a whole. If there are reasons why the Governor should not succeed himself in office, and should not be eligible to any other office in the gift of the State in order that he may faithfully and impartially and diligently perform the duties of the office of Governor, the same reasons might pertain to the office of Treasurer, Auditor and Attorney-General. Merely to say that they are not to be allowed to succeed themselves will not reach the point we are striving after. If we are so unfortun¬ ate as to elect men who are tempted by politics to aspire to these other positions, when they come to this State House at once there will spring up these combinations which wdll result in a mere exchange of offices at the end of four years. These gentle¬ men will have excellent opportunities and great temptations to form what might be well be denominated as a State House ring, and it is from such a result as this that we are seeking to escape. Therefore, I think the provision suggested by the gentleman from Talladega to that amendment are eminently wise. We certainly want our State Treasurer to discharge his duties with faithful¬ ness and impartiality and resting sorely upon the proposition that OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS all the honor he is to obtain is m the faithful discharge of his duty, and the same is true of each of the other officers, and I, therefore, heartily concur in the views of the gentleman from Talladega. MR. BROWNE—I rise for the purpose of withdrawing my amendment temporarily to meet the views of delegates on the floor. MR. JONES (Montgomery)--! move that we adjourn. General Harrison tendered an invitation to anj of the mem¬ bers of the Convention or its officers who desired to attend the funeral of Governor Samford transportation on a special tram for that purpose. Various committee meetinci's were announced also. MR, WEAKLEY—I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolu¬ tion. The consent was given and the resolution was read as fol¬ lows : Resolution 145, by Mr. Weakley: Be it resolved by this Coinention that the proper officers of this Convention be instructed to transmit to the Constitutional Convention of the State of Virginia now in session at Richmond the following message: To the President and Delegates of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Virginia, Richmond, Va.: The President and delegates of the Constitutional Conven¬ tion of the State of Alabama now in session at Montgomery, ex- t^nd greetings to the President and delegates of the Constitu¬ tional Convention of the State of Virginia now in session at Rich¬ mond, and hope that they will improve on their present laws. MR. PITTS—Strike out that last sentence. MR. W^EAKLEV I accept the amendment. The latter part of the sentence expressing the hope that thev improve on their present laws was stricken out and the resolu¬ tion adopted. Vote being taken the Convention then adjourned. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 557 TWENTIETH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., June 14th, 190L The convention met at 2:30 p.m. pursuant to adjournment, being called to order by the President, a call of the roll showed the presence of 88 delegates. LEAVES OF ABSENCE For Today—Messrs. O'Neill of Jefferson, Grant of Calhoun, Sollie, Kirkland. For Today and Tomorrow—Mr. Kyle. For Tomorrow—Messrs. Robinson, Espy, Weakley, Norwood, Moody. For Today, Saturday and Monday—Mr. Haley. The report of the Committee on Journal that the Journal for the nineteenth day was found correct was on motion adopted. THE PRESIDENT — Under the rule of the Convention adopted that the call of the roll for the introduction of ordinances, etc. will be discontinued at 11 o'clock, where the call of the Stand¬ ing Committees is not finished the convention will recur to the point in the order of business where we left off and the convention will noAv take up the report of the Committee on Executive De¬ partment. The question is on the amendment offered by the gen¬ tleman from Hale (Mr. deGraffenreid.) MR. BROWNE—I desire unanimous consent to make a re¬ port from the Committee on Taxation, Article XI, so that it can be printed. THE PRESIDENT — Unless there is objection the report will be received. The report was read as follows: Report of Committee on Taxation. Mr. President: The Committee on Taxation has instructed me to make the following report, viz: All of the ordinances referred to it have been carefully ex¬ amined and considered by the Committee, and the substance of some of them has been incorporated in the herewith submitted article on Taxation, which is recommended to be adopted in lieu SS8 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of Article XI of the Constitution of 1875. Those suggestions, oresented in such ordinances, which have been incorporated in the proposed article, will be manifest by the reading thereof. All ordinances referred to the Committee are herewith re¬ turned. The changes in the article on taxation are as follows: Section 1 has been so amended as to exclude from taxation debts for the rent or hire of real or personal property for the cur¬ rent year of rental or hire, in the hands of the landlord or hirer, when the real or personal property is assessed for taxation at its full value. Section 3 has been amended so as to authorize the Governor to negotiate temporary loans, not to exceed $300,000, whereas under the Constitution of 1875, such loans are limited to $100,000 and so as to provide for refunding the bonded indebtedness of the State. Section 4 is amended by limiting the amount of State tax to 65-100 of 1 per centum, instead of 3-4 of 1 per centum. Section 5 is amended so as to provide for the construction and maintenance of public roads by special taxation, as is now provided for public buildings and bridges but all of such special tax is limited to one-fourth of one per centum, whereas the special tax for such buildings and bridges is now without Constitutional limitation. This section is further so amended as to provide that counties may levy and collect such special taxes as may be au¬ thorized by law for public schools, provided that the extent of such tax, the time it is to be continued, and the purpose thereof, shall be first submitted to a vote of the qualified electors of the county who are property tax payers, and voted for by a majority in num¬ bers, and in taxable value of property, voting at such election; Provided also, that no such tax shall increase the total amount of taxation for all State and county purposes, except public build¬ ings, roads and bridges to a greater rate than $1.25 on every $100 of taxable property. This public school fund is provided to be equitably appropriated and paid to the several public schools in the county by the Commissioners’ Court or Boards of Revenue thereof. Section 6 has been amended by striking out the words “or enterprises.” Section 7 has been amended so as to provide for the levy and collection by cities and tovyns of a special school tax under simi¬ lar restrictions to those with regard to the special school tax of ■counties, providing the rate for all State, county and city purposes shall not exceed $1.75 on the $100 of taxable property. This fund CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 559 is to be appropriated equitably among and paid to the public schools of the city or town by the corporate authorities thereof. Section 8 has been entirely omitted. An additional section (as Section 9) is recommended, limit¬ ing the indebtedness of counties to 5 per centum of the taxable value of the property thereof, but providing it shall not apply to indebtedness in excess of such 5 per centum which has been al¬ ready created or authorized by law to be created. A second additional section (as Section 10) is recommended, limiting the indebtedness of cities and towns to 5 per centum of the taxable value of the property, but allowing an additional 3 per centum indebtedness for water works, gas and electric light plants, and sanitary sewerage. It is further provided that such limitation shall not apply to indebtedness in excess of such five per centum already created or authorized by law to be created. Cecil Browne, Chairman of Committee on Taxation. ARTICLE XI Taxation. Section 1.—All taxes levied on property in this State shall be assessed in exact proportion to the value of such property, but no tax shall be as¬ sessed upon any debt for rent or hire of real or personal property while owned by the landlord or hirer, during the current year of such rental or hire, and when such real or personal property is assessed at its full value; provided, however, the General Assembly may levy a poll tax, not to ex¬ ceed $1.50 on each poll, which shall be applied exclusively in aid of the public school fund in the county so paying the same. 3ec. 2.—No power to levy taxes shall be delegated to individuals or private corporations. Sec. 3—After the ratification of this Constitution, no new debt shall be created against, or incurred by this State, or its authority, except to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, and then only by a concurrence of two- thirds of the members of each House of the General Assembly, and the vote shall be taken by yeas and nays, and entered on the journals; and any act creating or incurring any new debt against this State, except as herein provided for, shall be absolutely void; provided, the Governor may be au¬ thorized to negotiate temporary loans; never to exceed $300,000 to meet the deficiencies in the Treasury; and until the same is paid, no new loan shall be negotiated; provided further, that this section shall not be so con¬ strued as to prevent the issuance of bonds for the purpose of refunding, the States existing bonded indebtedness. Sec. 4.—The General Assembly shall not have the power to levy, in any one year, a greater rate of taxation than sixty-five one-hundredths of 1. per centum on the value of the taxable property within this State. 560 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 5.—No county in this State shall be authorized to levy a larger rate of taxation in any one year, on the value of the taxable property therein, than 1-2 of 1 per centum. Provided, that to pay debts existing at the rati¬ fication of the Constitution of 1875, an additional rate of 1-4 of 1 per centum may be levied and collected which shall be exclusively appropriated to the payment of such debts or the interest thereon; provided further, that to pay any debt or liability now existing against any County, incurred for the erection, construction and maintenance of the necessary public buildings or bridges, or that may hereafter be created for the erection of necessary public buildings, bridges or roads, any county may levy and collect such special taxes not to exceed a rate of 1-4 of 1 per centum as may have been or may hereafter be authorized by law, which taxes so levied and collected shall be applied exclusively to the purposes for which the same were so levied and collected; provided further, that for the maintenance of public schools any county may levy and collect such special tax as may be author¬ ized by law; provided such special tax the time it is to continue and the purposes thereof shall have been first submitted to a vote of the property tax payers who are qualified electors in said county, and voted for by a majority thereof in numbers, and in value of taxable property, voting at such election; provided that the rate of such special tax for maintenance of public schools shall not increase the rate of taxation in any one year to more than $1.25 on every $100.00 worth of taxable property, for all State and County purposes, excluding any special tax for the erection, construc¬ tion and maintenance of necessary public buildings, bridges and roads; and provided further, that such special tax for schools shall be apportioned equitably and paid to the public schools of such county, by the court of County Commissioners or Board of Revenue thereof. Sec. 6.—The property of private corporations, associations and indi¬ viduals of this State shall forever be taxed at the same rate, provided this section shall not apply to institutions devoted exclusively to religious, edu¬ cational or charitable purposes. Sec. 7.—No city, town or other municipal corporation other than pro¬ vided for in this article, shall levy or collect a larger rate of taxation in any one year on the property thereof than 1-2 of 1 per centum of the value of such property, as assessed for State taxation during the preceding year; provided, that for the payment of debts existing at the time of the ratifi¬ cation of the Constitution of 1875, and the interest thereon, an additional rate of 1 per centum may be collected, to be applied exclusively to such in¬ debtedness; provided, that for the maintenance of public schools such city, town or other municipal corporation may levy and collect such special tax as may be authorized by law; provided such special tax shall not be levied and collected when it shall cause a greater rate of taxation in any one year than $1.75 on every $100.00 of taxable property, for all State, County and municipal purposes, except the erection, construction and main¬ tenance by counties of necessary public buildings, bridges or roads, and provided such special tax for schools, the time it is to continue and the pur¬ poses thereof shall have been first submitted to a vote of the property tax payers who are qualified electors in said city, town or other municipal cor- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 S61 porations, and voted for by a majority thereof, in numbers, and in value of taxable property, voting at such election, and provided such tax for schools shall be apportioned equitably and paid to the public schools of said city, town or other municipal coiporation by the municipal authorities thereof; and provided, this section shall not apply to the city of Mobile, which city may levy a tax not to exceed the rate of 3-4 of 1 per centum to pay the expenses of the city government, and may also levy a tax not to exceed the rate of 3-4 of 1 per centum to pay the indebtedness of said city existing at the time of the ratification of the Constitution of 1875, and the interest thereon; provided further, that this section shall not apply to the city of Birmingham, which city may levy and collect a tax not exceeding 1-2 of 1 per centum, in addition to the tax of 1-2 of 1 per centum herein¬ above allowed to be levied and collected, such special tax to be applied ex¬ clusively to the payment of the interest on the bonds of the said city of Birmingham heretofore issued by said city in pursuance of law, and for a sinking fund to pay off said bonds at the maturity thereof. Sec. 8.—The General Assembly shall not have the power to require the counties or other municipaf corporations to pay any charges which arc now payable out of the State Treasury. Sec. 9.—No county shall become indebted in an amount greater than 5 per centum of the taxable value of the property thereof; provided this section shall not apply to any indebtedness in excess of such 5 per centum, which has been already created or authorized by law to be created. Sec. 10.—No city, town or other municipal corporation shall become in¬ debted in an amount exceeding 5 per centum of the taxable value of the property thereof; provided that for the erection or purchase of water works, gas or electric plants, or sanitary sewerage an additional indebtedness not to exceed 3 per centum may be created; provided, further, that this section shall not apply to indebtedness in excess of such 5 per centum already created or authorized by law to be created. MR. BROWNE—I now move that the report be laid on the table until such time as the convention shall be ready to act on it. THE PRESIDENT—The report, under the rules, will lie over one day and be printed. The next order of business is the report of the Committee on Executive Department, and the ques¬ tion is on the amendment of the deleg-ate from Hale. MR, deGRAFFENRElD—I believe I made the motion to amend, and, as the maker of it, I have the rig'ht to conclude the argument. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I deem it my duty, in behalf of the committee to explain some of the considerations vvhich con¬ vinced them that the provision now sought to be stricken out y was a wise one. Three objections are made. One is that it dis- X franchises the people. Another is, that it is a vain thing to put in the Constitution; and the third one is that there is no means 562 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of enforcing- it. No-w, I propose to speak very briefly, because all the speakers not excepting myself, have perhaps occupied more time on this article than was proper. When, Mr. President, was it ever considered an unheard of or improper thing for the people to demand pledges of their rulers? The principle is as old as Magna Charta. Then we come to the disfranchisement argument. Who proposes this, Mr. President? It is the people. Every Constitution is a limitation upon the powers of the people. Every Constitution is a surrender of some of their otherwise in¬ herent rights for the public good. Mention was made the other day that such provision was contrary to the teachings of Jefferson, I have great reverence for the name of Jefferson, though I think in modern days he has been made the father of so many doctrines, that it is hard now to conceive what he stood for originallj\ But we find this provision in the Constitution of Virginia, that the Governor should be elected for four years, and should thereafter be ineligible to the office. Coming down to later times, a great assembly met in this hall a little over a quarter of a century ago. In view of all the evils under the Constitution of the United States from the right of an officer to succeed himself, those wise men and great men departed from it in one instance, by providing that the President of the new Confederacy should have a term for six years, and thereafter should be ineligible. You will find everywhere, Mr. President, in searching the different Constitutions, from the earliest days of the Revolution down to this good hour, where the people have thought it wise to disfranchise themselves, if that be the effect of it—by providing certain officers should not succeed themselves, or should not be eligible for office beyond a certain length of time. So there is nothing new in the principle. Then the question arises, is there an evil to which it should be applied? If in another place, and not speaking with the sense of responsi¬ bility which I think should be borne in mind by a man who speaks on this floor, I might use language to depict in detail some of the evils from which this people have suffered by reason of the am¬ bition of Governors, and their efforts to achieve it. It is far from the authors of this resolution to condemn ambition in any man. It is said to be an infirmity of noble minds. The best and the purest and the wisest men, when tempted by ambition, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously, do things which they would put far from them, if it were not for the temptation. De¬ liver us not into temptation, is a wise maxim, as well as one which a Christian ought to remember. It has been my good fortune to have been the intimate friend, with one exception, of every Democratic Governor of Alabama since 1875, I say it conserva¬ tively, with no desire to reflect upon any one who has held that office, that there never has been a Governor who cherished that umbition, whose administration would not have been better and higher, if he had not been an aspirant. If the gentlemen ask us to cite some instances, I answer the fact that this Gonstitutional CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 563 Convention sits here now instead of two years earlier, ougfht to be evidence to any man of the evils of allowing Rreat power to abuse the Governor’s office, and at the same time not curbing his power to abuse them in the pursuit of the Senatorship. Mr. President, we want to consecrate the man who holds this high power, we want to impress upon him, no matter how hum¬ ble he be, no matter how weak he may be, that it is not the man, but the great office he wields, with which the people are concern¬ ed. It will be a great day for our State when the citizen who takes this exalted trust, feels that he is cut off from temptatiop, that his enemies even cannot impute to him designs which he may not harbor, and that his administration and his efforts will be tried upon his merits and his acts. It is not altogether what a Governor is or what he does that makes his weight with the peo¬ ple, but it is what they believe to be his designs, whether selfish or unselfish, and I do not suppose of late years, at least, that any man who ever held the office did not in the beginning feel an¬ tagonisms that crept up against his efforts to reform abuses or initiate policies from people who believe that in defeating them they might lesson his power to go to the Senate. These, in short, Mr. President, were the reasons which actuat¬ ed the committee in putting the provision in there, that his ac¬ ceptance of the office should be a pledge to the people. Now it is objected, Mr. President, that pledges that cannot be enforced ought not to be in the Constitution. Why, what is the thirty- seventh Article of the Bill of Rights, what are the glittering gen¬ eralities about the equality of the people and the right to pursue happiness? They are simply admonitory. Constitutions frequent¬ ly contain precepts and examples of morality. It is nothing new in a Constitution to embody some great principle, although it is not capable of enforcement in the courts of the country. Why, Mr. President, at least half of the great commanding constitutions which refer to the Legislative Department, are incapable of en¬ forcement by any earthly tribunal. The Constitution says the legislature shall assemble at such and such a time. Suppose it refuses to do it? Is there any tribunal on earth that can impose obedience to it? The Constitution says it is their duty to assemble on a call of the Governor in extra session. Suppose they refuse to do it, is there any power in the people of Alabama constitu¬ tionally to compel them to do it? I might cite other instances, Mr. President. Then it seems to me, sir, that there is no reason for objecting to putting in the Constitution, a pledge which em¬ bodies the deliberate public opinion of the people of Alabama, that a man who takes that office parts for the time with other ambitions and consecrates himself to the service of the people for the time mentioned in the Constitution. Mr. President, when that provision is in the Constitution it will have a moral influ- 564 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ence, that will do as much to build up the State as the ability or genius of the officer in other channels. MR. deGRAFFENREID—In the discussion that was awak¬ ened by the introduction of this resolution to strike the clause under consideration from the article proposed by the Committee on Executive Department, there has not been a single person to take this floor and maintain that the clause complained of can be enforced or has any legal efficacy whatever. No man who has spoken in favor of that clause, or of that provision, has attempted to > say to any man in this Convention that the addition of that clause will add any strength so far as the law is concerned or the ability of the Courts of Alabama to enforce the law, but they merely say that it will have a good moral effect. As I stated on yesterday the Constitution is the fundamental law of a State, its every word should be truth, its every sentence should speak not the desire but the will of the people, and such a will as the courts established by the people, or the legislature called into existence by the people, by appropriate legislation can enforce. Now the gentleman who has just preceded me says that in the Declaration of Rights there are matters that cannot be enforced. I think if the gentleman will consider that he will find that there is not a statement in the Declaration of Rights defining the rights of man, defining the powers of man, defining the duties of legislators, that cannot now be enforced by the courts or by legislation which could be had by legislators called into existence by the people. He says, Mr. President, for instance, that the Constitution provides that the legislators shall meet upon the call of the Governor. How can that be enforced? Why, by appropriate legislation. The legislature can pass a bill that if they refuse to meet upon the call of the Governor that their offices shall be abrogated and that new representatives shall be selected to take their place. But the Con¬ stitution of the United States—and I refer now not to the amend- mpts that were adopted subsequent to the war—but to the Con¬ stitution that was adopted by the original States, by our fathers, fixed the qualification of Senators and Representatives of the United States. W^hen the people met to fix the Constitution of the United States they said what should and what should not be the qualifications of a Senator or a Representative, and it is, no one denies it, within the exclusive power of Congress to pass upon the qualifications of their own members. We are attempting here out of respect to a sentiment which we cannot enforce as law, to place in the fundamental law of the State a declaration which no court of this State and no court of any State can enforce The objection as I stated is purely technical—the objection is, that we should not go before the people with anything in our Con- admittedly helpless upon the subject. We go forth to teach the people generally, every¬ where, a due respect for the law. Every judge when he charges a grand jury dwells much upon that proposition, and yet here in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 565 this assembly we are, out of respect to a sentiment over which we cannot have any control, attempting^ to put something^ into the ConstitutK^ of this State that is not law and cannot be enforced as such. For these reasons, gentlemen, I think that this part of this article should be stricken from this report. I sympathize with the arguments of the gentleman, and sympathize with the purpose, as I stated, to remove as far as in our power lies every incentive to a Governor ot Alabama to so use his power as to effect his political advancement, but in doing so we should main¬ tain respect for the law and for the powers that have been left to the States by the Constitution of the United States. MR. WHITE—I think we have debated this question long enough, and I move to table the amendment. The motion was seconded, MR. LONG (Walker)—1 ask for the reading of the amend¬ ment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 5 by striking therefrom all of the Section that succeeds the following words, in line seven, viz : “After the ex¬ piration of his term.*' MR. BROOKS—I would suggest that the Clerk read the clause which is sought to be stricken out, so that the Convention will know what they are acting on. THE PRESIDENT—The matter has been discussed so long, does the gentleman desire it to be read? The delegate assented and Section 5 was read as follows: Sec. S. The Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, Attorney General, State Auditor, Super¬ intendent of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture and In¬ dustries shall hold their respective offices for the term of four years from the 1st day of December of the year in which they shall have been elected, and until their successors shall be elect¬ ed and qualified, and after the first election under this Constitu¬ tion neither of them shall be eligible as his own successor; and the Governor shall not be eligible to election to any office under this State within one year after the expiration of his term ; and his acceptance of the office of Governor shall be a pledge to the people not to accept an election or appointment to the Senate of the United States at any time during his term, or within one year thereafter. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to table the amendment. 566 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS A division was called for, and by a vote of 54 ayes to 56 noes, the motion to table the amendment was lost. The Chair stated the question recurred upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move the previous question. The motion was then withdrawn, and a division being called for, by a vote of 59 ayes to 56 noes, the amendment was adopted. The Chair stated the question recurred upon the adoption of the Section as amended. MR. REESE—I rise to ask unanimous consent to offer a short resolution, in order that it may be referred to a committee. It will save very much time. There were audible expressions of dissent. MR. PETTUS—Mr. President, I desire to offer an amend¬ ment to the Section as amended, and ask for a reading of the amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 5, page 6, by striking out the words “neither of them, in the fifth and sixth lines of said Section, and insert¬ ing in lieu thereof the words “no one of said officers.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—We accept that. MR. PETTUS—It is a question of the verbiage, and I think the Committee will accept it. IVm. JONES (Montgomery) — We accept it. Mr. Graham has already made the same motion and we accepted it. The amendment was thereupon adopted. MR. CHAPMAN—I have an amendment to offer to Section The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 5, Article V., as follows: By striking out the word one m lines seven and nine, and inserting in lieu thereof one the word ''four. ^^able^^^ (Montgomery)—I move to lay that amendment The motion was carried. MR. FOSTER—I have an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 567 Amend Section 5 by adding immediately after the word State, m Ime seven, the following, “or the Senate of the United States. The question being stated, a division was called for. MR. LONG (Butler)—I ask for the reading of the amend¬ ment. The amendment was again read. MR. WHITE—I call for the previous question on the adop¬ tion of the Section, THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman allow the Chair to announce the result of the vote. It appears there are 75 ayes and 23 noes, and the amendment offered by the gentleman from Tuscaloosa is adopted. The gentleman from Jefferson calls for the previous question. MR. DENT — I would like to hear the Section read as it stands up to this point. ^ The Section, as amended, was read. MR. DENT—I now offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Jefferson moves the previous question. The question is whether the main question shall now be put. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a question of parliamentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of inquiry. MR. PETTUS—I did not catch the reading by the Clerk, to understand whether or not the word appointment comes in after the word election in the sixth line of Section 5. I would like to know whether that was adopted. Adopted: Mr. Dent (Barbour) endeavored to secure recognition. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will recognize the gentle¬ man from Barbour so soon as the gentleman from Limestone states his point of inquiry. MR. PETTUS—I ask if the words “or appointment” are added after the word election in the sixth line of the fifth section., A number of delegates replied in the negative. MR, PETTUS—I would like to offer that as an amendment. 568 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR, DENT—Will the gentleman withdraw his motion for the previous question so that I can offer my amendment? MR. WHITE—I will withdraw the motion for the previous question for the gentleman from Barbour if he will renew it. MR. DENT—I offer this amendment, and I would like to state the purpose of the amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman can state as soon as the amendment is read, and the question is stated to the conven¬ tion. The amendment was read as follows: Amend section 5. ar¬ ticle V, by adding after the words “as his own successor,” in the sixth line, the following words “nor shall they be eligible as the successors of each other. MR. DENT—The object of the amendment is to prevent an officer who is holding some office, say attorney general, from running for some other office. It prevents an officer who holds the office of Auditor from running for the office of Secretary of State. In other words it is the swapping around that I want to prevent, and that is the object of the amendment. MR. PETTUS—I move to lay the amendment on the table. Seconded. MR. ASHCRAFT — I want to offer a substitute for the amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would rule that it is not in order, as the question before the Convention is the motion to table. On the motion to table a division was called for, and Mr Pet- tus asked for a verification of the vote, by the ayes and noes, to which there were expressions of dissent. The Chair stated in casting up the vote, there were fifty-five ayes and fifty-two noes, and the motion to table prevailed. MR. PETTUS—I withdraw the call. MR. DENT In compliance with my agreement with the gentleman from Jefferson, I renew the motion for the previous question. ^ MR. deGRAFFENREID—Too late— THE PRESIDENT-The gentleman from Barbour did not Lauderdale ^ ^ gentleman from MR. ASHCRAIT I desire to introduce an amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL, CONVENTION, 1901 569 strikh^ read as follows: Amend Section 5 by successor and th»» Pn* the following words, “as his own successor and the Governor shall not be eligible.” f#>r<»d^hv question to be upon the amendment of- tered by the g^entleman from Lauderdale. question which was dis- cusse s ig y ye^erday, on an amendment proposed by the gen¬ tleman from Talladega, which was temporarily withdrawn. If that amendment should be adopted, it would read then as follows, be- ginning* in the fifth line, and after the first election under this Con- stitution, no one of thern shall be ineligible to election to any of¬ fice under this State within one year after the expiration of his term. I tried the best I could, to say on .yesterday, the reasons why that amendment should be made. The gentleman from Bar¬ bour has stated also some of those reasons. They seem to me to be very clear. There can be no reason, Mr. President, why a State Auditor, should be allowed to succeed the attorney general, or the secretary of state, and not be allowed to succeed himself. It seems to me the question is clear. MR. WEATHERLY—I move to lay the amendment on the table. Upon the motion to table a division was called for, and by a vote of seventy-nine ayes to twenty-nine noes, the amendment was tabled. MR. HARRISON—I desire to offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 5 by striking out the words “December” where it occurs on the fourth line of said section, and insert in lieu thereof the word “Novem¬ ber” and strike out the word “first” where it occurs on the third line of said section, and insert in lieu thereof the word “fifteenth.” The Chair stated the question to be upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Lee. MR. HARRISON—The object of that amendment is to pre¬ vent the Governor-elect from remaining out of office until two weeks or more of the legislature has passed. It occurs to me that as soon as possible after the— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I think that a very good sug¬ gestion and I will accept it on behalf of the Committee. The Chair stated the question. MR. FOSTER—May I ask the gentleman a question. I did not catch the reading of it; would that make the Governor be in¬ stalled on the same day that the legislature meets? 570 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ME. HARRISON-No, sir; the ond Tuesday. It would not be a ‘ so that teenth, so it would be only a few days after he we would not have a Governor coming- m when half of the leg s lative session has expired. MR. OATES—Is it within the powers of the committee after a measure is in full possession of the convention, to accept any amendment that is offered? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would hold that it is not MR. OATES—I make that point— THE PRESIDENT—The Chair was stating the amendment to see whether the House would accept it. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I submit that the Chairman of the committee has a perfect right by every rule of parliamentary law that was ever printed, to get up and state the acquiescence of his committee in an amendment, and I insist I was strictly m order and that the gentleman’s point of order was not well taken. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair thinks that the Chairman of the committee has a perfect right to indicate to the convention that the committee approves the amendment offered, but it would be proper, after the matter is before the convention, and in the possession of the convention, if it proposed an amendment, to sub¬ mit the matter to the convention. MR. PIERCE—I desire to offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—There is another amendment before the convention. The gentleman is not in order at this time. The question was put upon the amendment of the delegate from Lee, and the same was adopted. MR. PEARCE—I desire to offer an amendment. The amend was read: Amend section five, in the sixth line after the word election by adding the words “or appointment.’’ MR. PETTUS—I move the adoption of the amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—How does it read then? The section as amended was read “and shall not be eligible to election or appointment.” MR. JONES—If I am not out of order, I will say in behalf of the committee, they have no objection to that. MR. DUKE—I move the previous question. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 571 be question is, shall the main question MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I move to recommit— The president—T hat is out of order. Mr. Burns (Dallas) was trying to secure recognition. ter) ^D'ing to get some information (laugh- THE PRESIDENT—The Chair ruling would be— MR. BURNS I think I would be out of order to offer an amendment right now (laughter). MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I ask the Chair to state the main question. What is the question? I desire a reading of the amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The question is upon the call for the previous question. Shall the main question be now put? MR. PARKER (Elmore)—What is the main question. The main question on a vote was ordered. Section 5, as amended, on a vote was then adopted. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I desire to introduce an ordinance. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is not in order to in¬ troduce an ordinance at this time. The Secretary will read Section 6. The section was read as follows; Sec. 6. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall each be at least thirtj' years of age when elected, and shall have been citizens of the United States ten years and resident citizens of this State at least seven years next before the date of their elec¬ tion. The Lieutenant Governor shall be ex-officio President of the State, which shall elect a President pro tern, from among its own members, who shall discharge the duties of the Lieutenant Governor in the Senate, whenever he is absent or disqualified. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move the adoption cf that Section. Mr. Lomax here took the Chair. The motion was seconded, 572 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SPRAGINS—I offer an amendment. The amendment was read: Amend Section 6 by adding at the end thereof, “but the Lieutenant-Governor when acting as Presi¬ dent of the Senate shall have no right to vote, except in the event of a tie.” The amendment was adopted. The question recurring upon the adoption of the Section as amended the same was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — Mr. President, I have an amendment to Section 7. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—There is a minority report accompanying Section 7 and under the rules it will come in as an amendment to the Section. The Secretary will read the Section, and then read the minority report. The Section and report were read as follows; Sec. 7. The Lieutenant-Governor, Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney General, Superintendent of Education, and Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries shall receive compensation for their services, which shall be fixed by law, and which shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which they have been elected, and with the exception of the Lieutenant-Governor, shall reside at the Capital. After the adoption of this Constitution, the compensation of the Gov¬ ernor shall be five thousand dollars per annum, which shall not be thereafter increased or diminished during the term for which he shall have been elected. The minority report was read as follows: The undersigned member ot the Committee on Executive De¬ partment does not concur in the report of the Committee as to Sections 7 and 27, and he offers as a substitute for Section 7 the following; Section 7. The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, State Auditor and Attorney-General shall receive com¬ pensation for their services which shall be fixed by law, and which shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which they shall have been elected, and shall, except the Lieutenant- Governor, reside at the State Capital during the time they con¬ tinue in office, except in cases of epidemic. And he further recommends that Section 27, (which relates to the loaning of money in the State Treasury), as reported by said Committee, be stricken out and do not pass. Respectfully submitted, Watkins M. Vaughan. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 573 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The question is upon the adoption of the substitute offered by the minority of the Commit¬ tee. MR. VAUGHAN — I want to offer an amendment to the substitute. MR. WATTS—I rise to a question of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gfentleman will state his question. MR. WATTS — Will that amendment or minority report, leave out the Superintendent of Education and the Commissioner of Agfriculture and Industries? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gfentleman who made the minority report requests leave to add those two offices to the minority report. The leave was granted. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to favor the minority report of the Committee, Mr. President. Alabama has had, since her ad¬ mission into the Union, five Constitutions, and neither of these constitutions since 1819, '61, ’65, a Republican Constitution that was so cursed in ’68, or ’75, had any clause in it fixing the salary of the Governor of the State of Alabama. I think it would be un¬ wise for us to say that the Governor of the State shall have a $5,000 salary, and to say it in the Constitution, even if there were merit in the contention. It seems to me that this is a question that should be left to the Legislature of Alabama to settle and to pass upon. There has never been a time, as I have stated before, when such a clause was inserted in any Constitution of this State. We were sent here by the people with a pack of cards, with nothing in it except suffrage cards, and here we are drawing and putting in new decks, and dealing from the bottom new officers, creating offices, and increasing salaries, in the first Article of the Constitution we consider. We must remember that this has to go back to the people for ratification. I might vote to increase the Governor’s salary in the General Assembly of Alabama, if I were a member of that body when such a question is before it, but I can never see my way clear to vote to place it in the Consti¬ tution. In our present constitution. Section 7 of Article V, reads as follows: 7. The Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, State Auditor and Attorney General, shall reside at the seat of govern¬ ment of this State during the time they continue in office, except in cases of epidemics; and they shall receive compensation for their services, which shall be fixed by law, and which shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which they shall have been elected. 574 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I can see no just reason why we are called on here to increase the Lla?y of the Governor. In twenty-five years from now this ^Lfsta^te might want to pay a salary equal to the great State % New York, or some other States that I might be necessary then to pay a salary of $7,500 or flO,000 to rtie Governor of the great State of Alabama m the future, and yet our Constitution might prohibit it. Another thing I want to call to the attention of this house, this clause in this report of the committee makes this effective immediately upon the ratification of this Constitution, which is clearly in violation, and m strict violation of the Constitution now. It puts it into effect immedi¬ ately on its ratification, which is nothing more nor less than a second-handed back-salary grab. If you are going to have it, make it apply to the next Governor, after the next general election m AlaWa. It seems to me, Mr. President, that the minority re¬ port should be adopted, and I hope the convention will vote that way, because I tell you that a $2,000 raise, as little as it is in many of our eyes, and many of the people here who are used to voting away thousands of dollars, to many of the people of this btate it will have the same effect as if it were two million dollars, be¬ cause they will say the principle is the same. We have pledged ourselves not to raise taxes. When you take care of the Governor, why not take care of the Attorney Gen¬ eral^ Why not take care of the Treasurer? Why not take care of the Secretary of State and the State Treasurer? Why not take care of every Judge in the State of Alabama? Why not take care of the poor members of the Legislature, and fix their salaries at eight or ten dollars a day? If you are going to fix one and make an exception, why not place all salaries in the Constitution? I admit that the office of Governor is a great office, but it was never the intention of the Democracy of this State to make this an office of money. It was intended to be an office of profit. (Laughter). I can see no reason why. (Laughter). I mean an office of honor, but it is not intended to make it an office of profit so to speak, Mr. President. I hope that the minority report of the committee will be adopted. MR. HENDERSON—I have an amendment— The amendment was read; “Amend Section 7, by striking the words ‘Lieutenant Governor’ from the first line of said sec¬ tion.” MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move that it be laid on the table. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that the minority report has precedence over any amendment offered by any member on the floor. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 575 THE PRESIDENT—^The chair is of the opinion that under the rules a minority report shall be treated as an amendment, and consequently the point of order of the gentleman from Walker is not well taken, and the question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Pike. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. Blackwell—I want to ask what the effect of that will be. Won’t it carry the minority report with it? MR. deGRAFFENREID—No, sir. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—No, not under our rules. The gentleman from Lauderdale moves to lay the amendment on the table. The motion to table was carried. MR. BURNETT—I have an amendment. The amendment was read: “Amend Section 7 of the minori¬ ty report by inserting in the first line after the word ‘the’ the word ‘Governor.’ ” The President here resumed the chair. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment pro¬ posed by the gentleman from Conecuh. MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. O’NEAL—As I understand it, the amendment simply embraces what the minority report of the committee already cov¬ ers. MR. BURNETT—The gentleman is in error. MR. VAUGHAN—The minority report has the word “Gov¬ ernor” in it. MR. BURNETT—I do not understand it. As I understand it the minority report is like the majority report, with the exception of fixing the compensation of the Governor at five thousand dol¬ lars. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman who made the minority report says that it contains the word Governor. MR. BURNETT—It has got “Governor” in there. THE PRESIDENT—Yes. 576 OFFICIAI, PROCEEDINGS MR. BURNETT—I withdraw the amendment then. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I regret that I am unable to agree with the proposition of the gentleman from Walker. The office of Governor is the highest in the gift of a people of any State, and its compensation should be commensurate with the dignity and the responsibility of the position. It is well known to be a subject of just criticism to our form of government, and its practical operation that men occupying the highest and most exalted positions frequently receive less compensation than petty officials. It is a well known fact that many Sheriffs, Probate Judges, the Clerk of the Supreme Court, Clerks of courts and other officials in this State, receive more compensation than the Chief Magistrate of Alabama. The result is that no man who is an incumbent of that high office, unless he has, other sources of income of revenue, can accept it would a pecuniary sacrifice, and it operates as a positive bar to gubernatorial aspirations by men of meagre financial resources. Only the rich, old bachelors, or those who are content to live in Montgomery hotels can afford to accept this high position. Now the purpose of the committee is to raise this salary, commensurate with the dignity and responsibility of that high office. It is no answer to say that the Legislature can adjust this salary. We know as a matter of fact that for twenty-five years bills of this character have been introduced in the legislature without passage. We know, as the Chairman of the committee wisely stated, that the short interval that elapses between the meeting of the Legislature and the inauguration of the Governor, does not furnish sufficient time for the passage of such a law. MR. PETTUS—May I ask the gentleman a question. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman yield? MR. O’NEAL—Certainly. MR. PETTUS—Would it not be competent for the Legis¬ lature at one session to provide for an increase' in the salary of the Governor to take effect for the next Governor elected? MR. O’NEAL — Yes, of course it would be competent, but they have not done it, and never will do it. The legislators of Alabama are so much engrossed in local legislation, and in look¬ ing after the interests of the particular beat in which the mem¬ ber resides, that they do not generally have time to give attention to legislation of this character. We know as a matter of fact that bill after bill of this character has been introduced, and never has been passed and never will be passed. The office of Gov¬ ernor is the highest office within the gift of the people. It is the people’s office, and while the people of Alabama are just they are not parsimonious— CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 577 MR. LONG (Walker)— May I ask a question? THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman yield? MR. O'NEAL—Certainly. MR. LONG (Walker)—^You state that bill after bill of this kind has been introduced in the legislature; can you recall a sin¬ gle time that such a bill has been introduced? MR. O’NEAL—I recall a number of bills of that character, and if the gentleman will search the records he will find a num¬ ber of such bills. Now Mr. President, the law imposes upon the Governor the high and responsible duty of seeing that the laws of the State are faithfully executed. In this republic of ours we depend for our security not upon armies and powerful navies, but upon that majestic supremacy of the law in which alone may be read the progress of a government founded upon the rights and fortified by the intelligence of the people. Alabama, first in the roll of States, is first in all of the elements that constitute a great and powerful and imperial commonwealth. Her people are just and generous, and I deny that they are opposed to this fair, but tardy, measure of justice, to this high official. I believe that they will approve and endorse our action in putting it in the fundamental law of the State, that the salary of the Governor shall not be less than $5,000 a year. MR. HOWZE—I have an amendment I would like to offer, either to the substitute, or the original article. THE PRESIDENT—To which does the gentleman offer it. MR. HOWZE—I offer it to the substitute or the minority report. The amendment was read: Amend the substitute for Section 7 by adding the following: The Lieutenant-Governor shall be paid the same compensation as that received by the Speaker of the House, except when serving as Governor, when he shall re¬ ceive the salary of said officer. THE PRESIDENT—The question will be on the amend¬ ment proposed by the gentleman from Jefferson to the minority report. MR. BLACKWELL—I rise, Mr. President, to discuss the minority report offered by the gentleman from Dallas. I do not want to discuss the amendment. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to a point of order. I have no objection to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jef¬ ferson, but I make the point of order that it is not germain to the 578 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS subject, and therefore it is out of order. I think it is a good amendment, and the Committee itself has agreed to that amend¬ ment, but I don’t think now is the time for it. The amendment was again read. MR. LONG (Walker)—I see that “Lieutenant-Governor” is in the minority report and I therefore withdraw the point of order. MR. REESE—I understand the question before the House is the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson to the minority report. I favor the substance of the gentleman’s amend¬ ment. I, however, am not inclined to think that it goes suffi¬ ciently far. When the question as to the establishment of this office came before the Convention, it seemed to be the general opinion that we were not to fasten a lien on the people of the State of Alabama to support this office in any greater dignity than the office had been supported in years gone by, under a dif¬ ferent name. I do not think the amendment goes sufficiently far. I am inclined to think it ought to contain the words “and no other compensation.” The substance and the purpose that is pro¬ posed to be accomplished by the gentleman, is unquestionably a good one. It was said on the floor here the other day, and with great force and with great truth, that we were establishing a new office and placing a lien on the taxable property of the peo¬ ple of this State to support that office. The view that I took of it at that time, and the view that I now take of it is, that we change the name of this officer and the method by which he shall be elected; that we give back to the people the power that they ought to have, the opportunity of selecting their own officers, and I say here, if this Convention refuses to limit the power of the Legislature to pass a law fixing a salary for this officer, the first Legislature will do it,—if the first Legislature does not do it, some other will,—if this Convention refuses to pass a limita¬ tion upon the compensation of this officer, it will be dragged through the next legislative halls, and it will be said that this Convention intended that he should receive more pay; that this Convention expressly declined to place him in the status in which the President of the Senate has always stood; they will say that he is a quasi Governor, a species of Governor, and that he has a big office, and that he is compelled by the people of Alabama to carry a biu and honorable title, and the people must give him the money along with the title to support him in respectability. The title is considerable compensation. In these days when the ordinary man in this country, and all of us are entitled only to the title of Colonel, they introduce and legalize a new title in this State, which will be a coveted honor. The man that gets this great office will be known from that time on as Governor, and will have the privilege of having it inscribed upon his tombstone, in order that posterity will know that he held this title. That is all the compensation that he wants. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 579 MR. PEARCE—I desire to rise in favor of the amendment. I think the office of Governor in this State is a great responsibili¬ ty, but I think it is a great mistake to create a demand for more Governors in this country considering the amount of guberna¬ torial material around here. Why, sir, there are hundreds of men in this State who would like to have the Governorship at the present price. I can show you a hundred in my county that would like to have it at the present figures. It is unnecessary and there is no call for the increase. At this price there has been a great political party in this country slaughtered trying to get this place, and consequently I favor the amendment. MR. WADDELL—I rise to a point of order. The gentle¬ man is not speaking to the amendment. MR. PEARCE—Well I don’t know why I am not. I insist, and state it as a fact, and it is a fact in straight language, and now I make a motion to take an aye and nay vote on the previous question. (Laughter.) THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment pro¬ posed by the gentleman from Jefferson to the minority report^ On a vote the amendment was adopted. The Chair stated the question recurred upon the minority re¬ port of the Committee. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I move that the minority report be laid on the table. MR. REESE—On that I call for the ayes and noes. MR. LONG (Walker)—I call for the ayes and noes. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I don’t think my friend from Hale remembers that the gentleman who made that report has not had an opportunity to be heard, and I hope he will withdraw that motion. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—Yes, I withdraw for the purpose of letting him be heard and then I will renew the motion. MR. VAUGHAN—I yield to the gentleman from Morgan. MR. WHITESIDE—I rise to a point of order. The PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. WHITESIDE—That the ayes and noes had been called for when the suggestion was made that the gentleman had the right to close the argument, and the vote should be taken. THE PRESIDENT—It was called to the attention of the gentleman who made the motion to table, that the gentleman who 580 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS made the minority report has not been heard in advocacy of it, and he therefore withdrew the motion to table in order that the gentleman might be heard, and the author of the minority re¬ port yields to delegate from Morgan. MR. PETTUS—I make the point of order that the motion cannot be withdrawn without the consent of the convention. The matter was in the possession of the convention. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. The question is shall the call for the ayes and noes be sustained. The call for the ayes and noes was sustained. MR. LONG (Walker)—I call for the reading of the amend¬ ment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson, which was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—It will be read in due course. The Secretary' read Section seven as amended. MR. PETTUS—Mr. President, I notice that the word "State” occurs before the word Auditor and Treasurer in this section, when it has been stricken out of all the other sections. I ask unanimous consent, to put that office in. The clerk may not have “State” before Auditor and Treasurer. Objection was made, MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I desire to call the attention of the Chair to the fact that Superintendent of Education was omit¬ ted from the minority report and desire to know if that is inten¬ tional or a clerical error. THE PRESIDENT—The minority report speaks for itself. MR, JONES (Montgomery)—^The gentleman had leave, by unanimous consent, to put that office in. The clerk may not have heard it. THE PRESIDENT — The Secretary’s recollection is that leave was given to put in the words Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, and State Treasurer. MR. O’NEAL—And Superintendent of Education? THE PRESIDENT—It is not so written here. The Chair does not entertain any amendments that are not in writing for the self preservation of this convention. MR. VAUGHAN—I desire to answer Mr. O’Neal, and say that section of the Constitution never did have Superintendent of Education in it. The first section of the article has Superintend¬ ent of Education incorporated in it, but this section never did have it incorporated in it. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 581 MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—I simply arose for a matter of inquiry and that is satisfactory. MR. OATES—I merely wanted the minority report read. THE PRESIDENT—It has just been read in the hearings of the convention. Does the gentleman desire it read again? There was no response, the Chair put the question on the motion to table the minority report, the yeas and noes having been called for. Upon the call of the roll, the vote was as follows: AYES Messrs. President, Beddow, Bethune, Boone, Brooks, Burnett, Carmichael, of Coffee, Dent, deGraffenreid, Fitts, Gilmore, Graham, of Talladega, TOTAL—37, Almon, Altman, Ashcraft, Banks, Barefield, Bartlett, Beavers, Blackwell, Browne, Bulger, Burns, Byars, Carmichael, of Colbert, Case, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Cornwall, Craig, Cunningham, Heflin, of Randolph, Howell, Inge, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Montgomery, Lomax, Lowe, of Jefferson, MacDonald, Merrill, Morrisette, Norwood, Oates, O’Neal, of Lauderdale, NOES Davis, of DeKalb, Davis, of Etowah, Duke, Eley, Eyster, Espy, Ferguson, Fletcher, Foster, Freeman, Glover, Greer, of Calhoun, Greer, of Perry, Handley, Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Henderson, Hodges, Hood, Howze, Jackson, Jenkins, Palmer, Pitts, Rogers, of Lowndes, Sanders, Selheimer, Smith, of Mobile, Smith, Morgan M., Tayloe, Waddell, Watts, White, Wilson, of Clarke, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Ledbetter, Leigh, Locklin, Long, of Butler, Long, of Walker, Lowe, of Lawrence, McMillan, of Wilcox, Malone, Martin, Maxwell, Miller, of Marengo, Miller, of Wilcox, oodv. Murphree, Opp, O’Rear, Parker, of Cullman, Parker, of Elmore, Pearce, 582 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Pettus, Pillans, Porter, Proctor, Reese, Rogers, of Sumter, Sanford, Searcy, TOTAL—90. Sentell, Smith, Mac A., Sorrell, Spears, Spragins, Stewart, Studdard, Thompson, Vaughan, Walker, Weakley, Weatherly, Whiteside, Williams, of Barbour, Wilson, of Washington, Winn, ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Cardon, Carnathan, Foshee, Graham, of Montgomery, Grant, Grayson, Haley, Hinson, King, Kirk, TOTAL—28. Kirkland, Kyle, McMillan, of Baldwin, Mulkey, NeSmith, Norman, O’Neil, of Jefferson, Phillips, Renfro, Reynolds, of Chilton, Reynolds, of Henry, Robinson, Samford, Sloan, Sollie, Willet, Williams, of Marengo, Williams, of Elmore, So the motion to table was lost. MR. PETTUS—I desire to offer an amendment to the mi¬ nority report. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 7 of the minority report by striking out the word “State’’ where it occurs respectively before the words “Au¬ ditor” and “Treasurer” in the first line of said section and in¬ serting the words “Superintendent of Education” after the word “General” in the second line of said section. MR. PETTUS—The reason I move to strike out the word “State” before “Auditor” and “Treasurer” is simply to be in har¬ mony with the rest of the Constitution. That word has been stricken out in the preceding sections. Then the office of Su¬ perintendent of Education being a Constitutional office, I think should be within the prohibition of not having his salary increased. MR. PROCTOR—I offer a substitute. THE PRESIDENT—The minority report is an amendment and a delegate has moved to amend that amendment, and an¬ other ^amendment, in the opinion of the chair, would not be in order at this time. An amendment to an amendment is as far as we can go. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 583 MR. PROCTOR—Can I not offer a substitute for the amend¬ ment? THE PRESIDENT—The g’entleman cannot offer an amend¬ ment to an amendment to an amendment. An amendment to an amendment seems to be as far as the rule will extend. A substi¬ tute in parliamentary law is merely an amendment. MR. ASHCRAFT—I notice that the word “Treasurer” is not in this section of the minority report. I would like to ask if it has been amended so as to include the word “Treasurer.” MR. PETTUS—By unanimous consent, while Mr. Lomax was in the chair, that was done. MR. ASHCRAFT—I understand the chair to say that noth¬ ing’ should be entertained that was not in writing. The president— it was in writing. MR. ASHCRAFT—Very well, then. A vote being taken, the amendment of the delegate from Limestone was adopted. MR. PROCTOR—I notice in the amendment offered by the delegate from Limestone he omitted the words “Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries.” THE PRESIDENT—That is already in the section. MR. BURNS—Mrs. President— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Dallas. Does the gentleman propose to amend the minority report? MR. BURNS—Yes, sir. The amendment was sent up and was read as follows: Amend by inserting after the word “salary,” “and per diem.” A vote being taken, the amendment was lost. MR. VAUGHAN—I now move the adoption of the minority report. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—As the chairman of the com¬ mittee who made this report, and of which, it seems, if I heard their votes aright, the majority voted against it, I will not now say that I speak for the committee, but I beg to make one ap¬ peal to this convention for this office. I am sure that no man who hears my voice can imagine there is any motive on earth except the good of my State and the honor of its people, which induces me, after what seems to be an overwhelming vote against the proposition embodied in the majority report, to ask dele¬ gates to pause a little while, before they make up their minds. 584 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS There are some occasions, Mr. President, when a man may be pardoned for speaking of personal experience. It is known to members on this floor that for four years I had the honor to hold that office. Like many others, the office out of possession seemed to be a thing to strive for and to sacrifice for, and worth more than the prize when in possession. For four years, I en¬ dured, what I believe every man of moderate means who ever held the office endured—a life to some extent of humiliation. Fellow delegates, under the present salary, you cut out four-fifths of the best men of this State for aspiring to the Governor’s office. The office, year after year, has become less attractive to the young men and to the old men of Alabama. We have seen, year after year, its gifted and bravest and best sons seeking seats in Con¬ gress, or employment in other political pursuits, where the pay was greater. They could not live on honor alone. Let us stop and think a little, and see if the people—the hill billies about whom so much has been said—would condemn or censure if we passed this ordinance. There is hardly a day in the Governor’s experience that some poor woman, often with a child at the breast, does not come to him to appeal for a pardon. Some times she is sent here by subscription from her neighbors, who give her just enough to come here. When she bids you good bye, it may be with tears in her eyes, she says. Governor, I have no place to go tonight, can’t you help me? What man could resist such an appeal? Many a time, if it had not been for the kindness of Dave Fleming, when my own means were exhausted, poor peo¬ ple who came here to ask for pardon and for mercy, would have been turned out on these streets at night, because I had neither the private fortune nor contingent fund to help these unfortun¬ ates who came here to ask mercy from their State. Fellow dele¬ gates, I may be pardoned for mentioning some other experiences. Just at the close of my term, I was invited to Mobile to attend the ceremonies about the cruiser Montgomery. I knew they did not want Tom Jones, but they did want the Governor of this State. The people of Mobile were as kind to me as people could be. I had an elegant suite of rooms. I was the guest of the city. There was much hospitality tendered me by naval officers and strangers for the sake of Alabama. I was bound to return, for 1 revered the office and had respect for those I represented. My salary for the month of November was $250 and my expenses $278. Fellow delegates, many a time letters of introduction are brought to the Governor of Alabama from other Governors, or distinguished men, asking some attention for honored visitors. Time and time again oppressed by lack of means as Governor of Alabama. I heaved a sigh when such demands came, and there was temptation, straightened as I w'as. not to act the host as be¬ came my high office. But love of my people said no—and for the sake of Alabama I did what I could ill-afford. Fellow delegates, you need not be afraid of our people. We have, as some say, dis- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 .-85 franchised the Governor. We have said to him, you are in of¬ fice for four years, you shall hold no office after that for one year. Senate nor anything else. Will the people of Alabama blame us, will they not approve us, when we say, under those circumstances, we will give your Governor money enough, if he is a poor man, that he can live decently, and we won’t be ashamed of him. I remember, Mr. President, a visit of Governor Holliday of Virginia. He came to Montgomery one summer, some years ago. I had known him during the war, a splendid old Virginia gentleman he was. I said to him: “Governor, there is nobody at home. I am up on the hill where it is cool. You had better come up and stay with me tonight.’’ He replied, “I am sorry, but I have accepted the hospitality of the Governor of Alabama.” I saw him next morning. He looked thin and worn. He quietly said he had not slept a wink that night at the Exchange Hotel, and the next time I come to Alabama. I won’t accept the Gov¬ ernor’s hospitality. Do we want to put our Governor in that attitude? Don’t the people of Alabama have respect for the office? Isn’t he the man who can appoint a Chief Justice, appoint a Senator, put all of you under arms, who is President of your colleges, whose voice and will is equal to one-half of all the Senators and Representatives? Does not he typify your dignity, power and majesty. Isn’t there a feeling about this, like that a boy has about his sweetheart or a man about his wife, when he likes to see her dress well and wear flowers? Isn’t there something in this besides dollars and cents? Gentlemen, I don't believe, on any stump in Alabama, when this issue is fairly made, that you will find one hill-billie in ten who would not say. thank God you have at last done some¬ thing to sustain the honor and dignity of this office which be¬ longs to us. It has been urged that the Constitution has never under¬ taken anything like this. My friend from Walker (Mr. Long) is mistaken. In the Constitution of 1875. when we were just re¬ covering from the horrors of reconstruction, he will find a pro¬ vision requiring the legislature, at its first session after the adop¬ tion of this Constitution, to reduce the salaries 20 per cent. DELEGATE—Twenty-five per cent. MR. LONG—My statement was that it was not fixed in any Constitution since 1819. MR. JONES—I understood the gentleman to say that the principle as to increase or decrease, or commands as to what the General Assembly ought to do had never been in the Constitu¬ tion. Are we in the condition today, Mr. President, that Ala¬ bama was in 1875? Is Alabama just emerging from ruin and deso¬ lation? Will we have it go out to the world that w'e are unwill- 586 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ing to pay any more salary to keep up the dignity and power of this office, that we did in our days of poverty and despair? We are entering into a new era. Our State is rich, we will be richer. We prosper and will prosper. We will honor ourselves, and we will honor our State, if, in this instance at least, we in¬ crease this salary, I am not speaking for any man. When this ordinance was introduced and reported by the Committee, I had hoped, if it passed that, it would benefit and comfort the dear and gentle and wise man who sleeps today at Opelika, but Mr. Presi¬ dent, it is not the man, it is the office for which provision should be made. All our hearts are touched by the loving demonstra¬ tions we have witnessed in honor of the noble soul whose remains lay here, in our loving care yesterday. He deserved as an in¬ dividual all the tributes that had been paid him. But after all, was not the grief, the solemnity, tinged with a deeper feeling, be¬ cause two millions of people had lost their Chief Magistrate? I trust delegates will think this matter over and not shrink from the duty of declaring now, and for all time, that the Governor shall have a salary which will comport with his needs and the honor and the dignit}^ of the State, and put it in the Constitu¬ tion that Alabama desires ever}^ intelligent son of hers, who is fit to aspire to the office, to have the opportunity to do so, whether he is rich or poor. It is right. It is just. It is wise. Why not do it? MR. OATES (Montgomery)—I have no idea that anything I can say will change the opinion of any delegate on this floor, but as I introduced an ordinance which went to this Committee and in substance is embodied jn their report and into the Con¬ stitution, I do not wish to shirk the responsibility of being in the minority if such be the fact, but to stand for whatsoever I do. I have been but for half the length of time of my^ friend, the dis¬ tinguished delegate from Montgomery, (Mr. Jones) in a position to know about the salary of Governor, but during those two years I did learn something about it, and I propose briefly to give these delegates something of my observation and experience in that matter. Go back to the condition of this State, when there wer^ less than half a million of white inhabitants. There were 530,000 inhabitants in the beginning of the war of '61, and prior to that time there were less than half a million, though they made the salary of their Governor $4,000 a year, and it stood at that figure until the Convention of 1875, and then because of the poverty- stricken condition of the State, which had been afflicted with carpet-baggery and a good many counties rendered insolvent, and the State itself which had never made default in the payment of interest on bonds it owed, or in any other respect, and in fact during the war absolutely ran cotton through the blockade to pay the interest on its bonded debt held in Europe, was unable to pay, and made default, and its bonds were hawked about at CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 587 about 30 cents on the dollar, and in the presence of that condi¬ tion of things it was that the Convention of 1875 passed an ordi¬ nance to reduce the salary of the Governor and all other State officers, including judges, 25 per cent., and in that way the Gov¬ ernor was cut down to $3,000 a year. Now what is our condi¬ tion? Here we have more than 1,800,000 people. We have $265,- 000,000 taxable property, three times as much as we had when we paid the Governor $4,000 a year, and yet gentlemen object to making his salary $5,000. Compare the condition of Alabama with other States. Take old Virginia, the Mother of States and states¬ men, and they give their Governor a four years term and $5,000 a year and furnish him a mansion to live in, and today Alabama has more wealth than old Virginia, and are we to pursue this parsimonious practice? Why, gentlemen, I heard it said in the Convention in 1875, I heard similar declarations to what I have heard today, that you could get men, numbers of them, to take the office for less than the salary. Why, I can go out and find them by the score, those who would take the office for $500. We had better, if that is the way to select a Governor, simply let out the office of Governor to the lowest responsible bidder. (Laugh¬ ter.) We can get enough men, I guess, to take it at $250. We want a man as Governor who will command the respect of the whole people, who will attend to his duty as such high officer in a manner that will be becoming to him and which will make his people feel a pride in seeing the office thus executed. My friend the delegate from Montgomery, properly alluded to the fact that the Governor is expected to contribute to charity, more largely, more universally, than any other ten men, though they be of¬ ficials in the State of Alabama, If the Governor don't contribute something to every poor body that comes along and asks it, why what is said and thought? They go away utterly disappointed and say, “My God, what sort of a Governor—he would not even give me a dollar." They are expected to thus contribute and it takes a large amount. If he does it with any kind of liberality it cuts his salary to $2,000 a year; and in this city how can a man support his family and live in any kind of style even upon $3,000, and is not the Governor of our great State expected to enter¬ tain friends and officials sometimes. Why Governors of other States do that, and it is a proper thing for him to do in reason. Well then again, our Governor may be a poor man. The one whom we have but recently lost, a most excellent gentleman, a man of splendid capacity was, I am informed, in that category. He was a poor man come here to live with a family to support on $3,000. Was he able to rent an expensive mansion and main¬ tain it? No sir, he found a place in a boarding house and not a first-class one at that, because he was unable, his salary would not warrant his paying the price. Why, sir, is that the way for Alabama to treat her Governor? Then, again, visitors come here, 588 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and as this is the Cradle of the Confederacy and the Capitol at which the first Confederate Congress met, and where the Con¬ federate President was inaugurated, they come England, and everywhere else, and come up to the Capitol a ask naturally of the guide where is the Governors ofjce we would like to see him very much, to meet him. TJe guide takes them around into the Governors office to show them the office, and when they get around in there they see him in a little 12x room like a half-grown bear, and there is the Governor of the great State of Alabama. Ah, I tell you, gentlemen, it marks a stinginess in our people that is unwarranted. Demapgism has prompted men on the stump to say time and again. Ah we won t Jay large salaries,” and yet expect the best class of men to give their services to the State through mere patriotism. It is true the honor is great because the office of Governor is the highest in the gift of the people in our State and it ought to be honored. It is not for this purpose that report is made to make it a money getting institution. You take any man of first class ability, as nearly all lawyers are—they are most usually the men elected Governor,—and where is one who goes into the Practice and la¬ bors at his desk but makes that much and more by his Profes¬ sion Now why is it necessary to incorporate it in the Consti tution? I don’t believe that the delegates in this convention are disposed to vote that down because they dislike to ernor that salary. That is not the reason, that is not it at all, it is because they do not like the precedent of fixing a salary in the CoLtitution. \hat is it. Gentlemen, I know you are patriotic and intelligent and you do not want your Goverrior craped as he is now, but you want to show him more liberality. You will, I believe, before this convention adjourns direct the General As- sembly as soon as practicable to provide a decent mansion as a residence for your Governor, but you do not like the principle of incorporating it in the Constitution. Wherefore should it be^ Because your legislators will not do it. That is the reason. They have had twenty-five years, and where has any progress ever been made in that direction? None at all. Will it be, if you rele¬ gate it to your Legislature? There it will stay right where it is. There will be plenty of them will say. Oh, well he ought to live on the honor. Well gentlemen, it is elevating in our State when we show proper respect for this highest of our offices. If you are afraid of the money, cut down the salary—though they be low—of some other officials rather than keep your Governor groping along in this way. The Chief Justice of your Supreme Court gets $600 a year more salary than the Governor of your State, and that is probably not enough. The President of the Railroad Commission gets $500 more than your Governor. Why is it that he is of so much more importance? The Associate Railroad Commissioner gets as much as the Governor. Every solicitor in the State gets as much, every solicitor that goes around CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 589 and prosecutes in the courts gfets as much pay as your Governw. It is simply ridiculous and I tell you that if you rely upon the Legislature it will not be done. It is safe to judge the future by the past and when men have been tried for twenty-five years and have not done the necessary and proper thing, why risk it any longer, I have seen nothing in this report, and I presume there will be nothing in any other that attempts to fix the salary of any but this officer, the highest in the gift of the people and the honor that any and every citizen in the State would like to have and properly so. I hope that the delegates in this convention will individually take it unto themselves and consider the neces¬ sity for this and the reasonableness of it, and adopt it. MR. BLACKWELL—The arguments made by the distin¬ guished gentleman from Montgomery could well have been re¬ served for the Legislature when it next assembled in the Capitol of Alabama. Individually I am in favor of increasing the Gov¬ ernor’s salarv. Individually I am in favor of giving the Gov¬ ernor 15,000 a year, but this great State that the gentlemen have presented here this evening is made up of people. It is not the cljaracter of the land that Alabama has that constitutes her chief greatness. It is not the mineral wealth that Alabama has that constitutes her chief greatness. It is not the 11,000 square miles of coal lands that Alabama has that constitutes her chief great¬ ness, but it is the people of the State of Alabama that consti¬ tute her greatness, I want to know who presented this question to the people in the campaigns for the Constitutional Conven¬ tion and who said to them that one of the duties they expected to perform as a delegate to this convention was to fix a salary at five thousand dollars a year? MR. OATES—If the gentleman will allow me, I was one. I made seventeen speeches and advocated it on the stump each time and was usually applauded. MR. BLACKWELL—How many more made it? The on.ly time we have heard the question discussed as to what the Gov¬ ernor’s salary should be was in 1875 when the Governor was paid |4,000 a year, and as a matter of fact the only expression given by the people was that they desired a reduction of salaries and in obedience to the demands of the peO'ple that salary was reduced 25 per cent. I am perfectly willing to go before the peo¬ ple and say that the Governor should have what these gentle¬ men say now. I am willing to risk the people to do right in the matter. MR. JONES—Won’t this Constitution go before the people? MR. BLACKWELL—Yes, and I don’t want to load the Constitution down with things that the people haven’t considered or expressed themselves on, or wherever they have said anything 590 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS about it, have been opposed to it. I don’t want to go before the people with a Constitution loaded down with such thingfs and jeopardize the success of this Constitution that will relieve them of negro domination. I want as few things put in here as possible that the people themselves can settle at the polls. If the gentle¬ men are so certain that the people of Alabama will not object to this measure, why not wait and let that be made an issue in the campaign before the people, and hear the voice of the people di¬ rect rather than by proxy. It seems to me we want to put just as few things in that Constitution as it is possible to put in that Constitution that may endanger its success. If the gentlemen are satisfied that the sovereign people of Alabama favor this idea, why put it in the Constitution? Don’t you believe that any mem¬ ber of the Legislature, if there is a constituency behind him that wants this thing, will readily carry it out. It is not that I am opposed to the measure personally that makes me object to it, but it is the fact that the people have given me no authority or instruction to do any such a thing as this. MR. O’NEAL—Is it not a fact that provisions of a similar character to this are found in many of the Constitutions of the other States? MR. BLACKWELL—Yes, sir, I do not entertain that ob¬ jection to it that I don’t want it in the Constitution, as the gen¬ tleman assumes, but I want the people to express themselves on it, and I want to know whether they want it put in the Consti¬ tution before I am willing, as their representative, thus to act for them. My people have certainly had no discussion on this matter. My people have certainly expressed no opinion on this matter. My people say they want reductions wherever they can be made, and we are pledged to have no increased rate of taxa¬ tion. If we go on and increase the salaries of officers, where ju;e we going to get the money to pay the increase except by taxes upon the people. And yet, if the people want to increase it, they have a right to do so, and you say the people would be willine" to do it. Then why not submit the question to them and not speak for them when they have not authorized it, but ask them and let them say whether or not they want it. 1 know Alabama is great enough to do this if she wants to do it, but the people have a right to speak on the matter, and, therefore, I am opposed to putting it in the Constitution as their representatives, and it seems to me that these appeals which the gentlemen are now making should be made to the Legislature, and if it is so important and the people can be made to see it, it would be made an issue in the next campaign and the Governor can have the full benefit of it if the people of Alabama are willing he should have it, and I, for one am willing he should have it. MR. GREER—I move the previous question. I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 591 A vote being taken, the main question ordered, and a further vote being taken on the motion to adopt the minority report, the yeas and nays were demanded and the roll call resulted as follows: Almon, Altman, Ashcraft, Barefield, Bartlett, Beavers, Blackwell, Browne, Bulger, Burns, Byars, Carmichael, of Colbert, Case, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Cornwall, Cunningham, Davis, of DeKalb, Davis, of Etowah, Duke, Eley, Eyster, Espy, Ferguson, Fletcher, Foster, TOTAL~-88. Messrs. President, Banks, Beddow, Bethune, Boone, Brooks, Burnett, Carmichael, of Coffee, Craig, Dent, deGraffenreid, AYES Freeman, Glover, Greer, of Calhoun, Greer, of Perry, Handley, Harrison, Heflin, of Randolph, Henderson, Hinson, Hodges, Hood, Jackson, Jenkins, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Ledbetter, Leigh, Locklin, Long, of Butler, Long, of Walker, Lowe, of Lawrence, McMillan (Wilcox), Malone, Martin, Maxwell, Miller (Marengo), Miller (Wilcox), Moody, Murphree, Opp, O'Rear, Parker (Cullman), Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Pettus, Pillans, Porter, Proctor, Reese, Rogers (Sumter), Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Smith, Mac. A,, Sorrell, Spears, Spragins, Stewart, Thompson, Vaughan, Walker, Weakley, Weatherly, Whiteside, Williams (Barbour), Wilson (Washington), Winn, NOES Fitts, Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jones, of Montgomery, Lomax, Macdonald, Merrill, Morrisette, Norman, Norwood, Oates, O’Neal (Lauderdale),. Palmer, Pitts, Rogers (Lowndes), Sanders, Sanford, Selheimer, 592 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Smith (Mobile), Tayloe, White, Smith, Morgan M., TOTAL—41. Waddell, Wilson (Clarke), Watts, ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Cardon, Kirkland, Reynolds (Chilton), Carnathon, Kyle, Reynolds (Henry), Foshee, Lowe, of Jefferson, Robinson, Grant, McMillan (Baldwin), Samford, Grayson, Mulkey, Sollie, Haley, NeSmith, Studdard, Heflin, of Chambers, O’Neill (Jefferson), Willett, King, Phillips, Williams (Marengo), Kirk, TOTAI^26. Renfro, Williams (Elmore), So the minority report was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move the previous question on the section as amended. A vote being taken, the main question was ordered and a further vote being taken the section as amended was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move the adoption of Sec¬ tion 8 and on that I call for the previous question. Section 8 was read as follows: “Section 8. The Governor shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” A vote being taken the main question was ordered and a further vote being taken the section was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I now move that the Conven¬ tion adjourn. MR. REESE—I ask the gentleman to allow me to offer a resolution so as to have it referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will withdraw the motion to adjourn if you will renew it after 5 'ou offer your resolution. i\ MR. REESE—Very well. ' Resolution 146, by Mr. Reese: Resolved, That hereafter, when members shall come into the Convention, after the roll call, their presence may be noted by the Secretary, upon their personal application, without interrupt¬ ing the Convention proceedings. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 593 MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move that the rules be suspend¬ ed and that resolution be adopted now. A vote being- taken the rules were suspended and a further vote being taken the resolution was adopted. MR. REESE—I now renew the motion made by the delegate from Montgomery. A vote being taken the motion was carried, and the Conven¬ tion adjourned. CORRECTIONS On second page of proceedings nineteenth day in latter part of inquiry by Mr. Sanford transpose “it is” to “is it” so that in¬ quiry will read as follows: Is it not a fact that this is a limitation upon the rights of the people to vote for any man they please for any office, and, there¬ fore, is it not a disfranchisement of the people so far as that is concerned? The point of order made against the amendment of Mr. Brown, that it had already been offered by the delegate from Walker and had been passed by the House which was attributed to Mr. Brooks, was made by some other delegate. Mr. Brooks’ sentence in reference to Mr. Browne’s amendment should read, “You can offer an amendment to an amendment but you cannot at the same time offer another amendment to another point of the section. TWENTY-FIRST DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Saturday, June 15, 1901. The convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Gay as follows; Our Father and our God, we praise Thee for Thy manifold blessings upon our State and nation. We praise Thee for the health and strength, for the desire to look to Thee as the author and furnisher of our faith, the giver of every good and perfect gift. We pray Thy blessing upon this assembly today. Grant O God to imbue this presiding officer with Thy wisdom, discre- 594 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tion, judgment and bless these who have the sacred trust given to them with that wisdom and that justice and that love of coun¬ try which shall make them to be honored and honorable, and we pray Thee our God that thou wouldst bless our homes. Bless, we pray Thee, this State, Grant to direct us to Thy glory in all things, we ask it for Christ sake. Amen. The roll was called and disclosed the presence of a quorum. LEAVES OF ABSENCE For Yesterday and Today—Mr. Kirk (Colbert). For Today — Messrs. O’Neill (Jefferson), Ashcraft, Lowe (Lawrence), Thompson, Howell, Miller (Wilcox), Burnett, Reese, Foshee, Malone. For today and Monday—Messrs. Jones (Wilcox), Miller (Ma¬ rengo). For Monday—Parker (Elmore), O’Rear. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I rise to a question of personal privilege. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of privilege. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I am reported, by yesterday’s stenographic report of the proceedings, as having voted on the ordinance seeking to increase the ’Governor’s salary, from three to five thousand dollars, in favor of the minority report, and against the majority report, when I really voted for the majority report, and against the minority report, and I therefore ask that it be corrected. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary informs the Chair that the journal shows that the gentleman voted in favor of the ma¬ jority report, and the stenographer will be instructed to make the correction. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to a question of personal priv¬ ilege. In The Advertiser today there is a serious reflection, and insult as I consider it, to a majority of this convention, and as a member of that majority I wish to read some extracts from that paper, and I also have a resolution which I desire to offer. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I object. We have all seen that and it is mere newspaper criticism. MR. LONG (Walker)—I insist upon my question of privi¬ lege. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is not addressing himself to a question of personal privilege. There is nothing personal in it. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 S95 MR. LONG (Walker)—That is for this convention to de¬ termine. It is a question of the highest personal privilege. When a body of men by an editorial in a Democratic newspaper, is re¬ ferred to as a set of cowards, and as lacking timidity, and hon¬ esty of purpose— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will be in order until the Chair rules on the question of privilege. In the opinion of the Chair the question is not a question of privilege, and the point of order will be sustained. MR. LONG (Walker)—As much as I hate to do it, I am compelled to appeal from the decision of the Chair to the majority of this Convention. It is a question of the highest privilege, that the majority of this convention have been grossly insulted, by an editorial, that needs no explanation on this floor by the repre¬ sentatives of the people of Alabama. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Walker appeals from the decision of the Chair, and the question is shall the de¬ cision of the Chair be sustained. Upon a vote the decision of the Chair was sustained. MR. HINSON—I move that the privileges of the floor be ex¬ tended to the Hon. Richard H. Clarke of Mobile. There being no objection, the privileges of the floor were so extended. MR. DUKE—On yesterday, I asked for and obtained leave of absence for Mr. Robinson of Chambers, for yesterday and to¬ day. I notice in the stenographic report, that he is reported to have been granted a leave of absence, and it says “tomorrow,” meaning today. It should read for today and tomorrow, and if the journal has it— THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman mean for today and Monday? Tomorrow will be Sunday. MR. DUKE—No sir, I mean what I said. The stenographic report says for '^tomorrow.” This was on yesterday, and I asked for the leave of absence for yesterday and today. The^ steno¬ graphic report says he was granted leave of absence for “tomor¬ row,” meaning today; it should read for “today and tomorrow, that is yesterday and today, and if the same mistake occurred in the journal I ask to have it corrected. THE PRESIDENT — The Journal shows the request was granted in accordance with the recollection of the gentleman from Chambers, and the stenographic report will be corrected ac¬ cordingly. 596 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I ask unanimous consent to be al¬ lowed to introduce a resolution at this time, that it may be read and referred to the proper committee. Resolution 146, by Mr. deGraffenreid: Resolved, That after next Monday this convention shall meet, regularly each day at 10 o’clock in the morning and shall remain in session from that time to 1 o’clock p. m. when a recess shall be taken to 3 p.m., and the convention shall remain in session until 5 p.m., when the convention shall stand adjourned until 10 o’clock a.m. of the succeeding day. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a resolution. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—May I inquire of the gentle¬ man what it is about. MR. LONG (Walker)—I give the gentleman the right to object if he wants to, but I decline to tell him what it is about. MR. JONES—I object. MR. LONG (Walker)—Then I move that the rules be sus¬ pended, and that I be allowed to introduce this resolution. This privilege has been accorded to other members on this floor. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman will be in order. The gentleman from Walker moves that the rules be suspended in order that he may introduce a resolution. The rules were suspended. Resolution No. 147, by Mr. Long (Walker) : Whereas, there appears in The Montgomery Advertiser of this State an editorial reflecting upon the honesty of purpose of a majority of this convention. Therefore. Be it resolved that this Convention hereby con¬ demns said editorial as unjust and unwarranted, coming, as it does, from a Democratic, newspaper that prints subsidized $70 per day resolutions of the proceedings of this convention. MR. WATTS—I move to lay it on the table. Seconded. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—For that purpose I move a sus¬ pension of the rules in order that the resolution may be laid upon the table. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 597 The rules were suspended, and upon a viva voce vote bein^ taken on the adoption of the resolution, a division was demanded and had. MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask a verification of the vote by the ayes and noes. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I make the point of order that the gentleman is too late. THE PRESIDENT—It is too late to call for the ayes and noes in the opinion of the chair. MR. LONG (Walker)—I move for a verification of the vote by ayes and noes. MR. PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the chair it is too late for the gentleman to call for an aye and no vote after the chair has stated the question, and the Convention has voted, and the result has been announced. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Is it too late to ask for a verifi¬ cation? I ask for a verification of the vote. MR. LONG (Walker)—I respectfully refer you to the rule that gives any member the right to call for an aye and noe \ ote, before the announcement of the vote. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will please refer me to the rule. MR. LONG (Walker)—I read rule thirty-six. The ayes and noes shall only be ordered when the call therefor is sustained by thirty delegates. I do not know in the absence of any rule anything to pre¬ vent a member on the floor from calling for an aye and no vote. It would be nothing but right and proper that an aye and no vote be recorded whenever called for. I do not desire to be ob¬ streperous in this matter, but it does seem to me that it is a sim¬ ple matter of common justice, and if thirty members on this floor want an aye and no vote they should have it. THE PRESIDENT — Rule thirty-six says: The ayes and noes shall only be ordered when the call therefor is sustained by thirty delegates. MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that a call for the ayes and noes is not a motion, and is always in order before the vote is announced, whether the vote is by division, or whether it is viva voce. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, when the Chair stated the question before the house, it would have been in order for any member to have moved for an aye and no vote. 598 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS but no member made such a motion, and the Chair stated the question, and a vote was taken, and then a division was called for, and the chair put the question upon the call for the division, and that question was put and voted upon and the result of the vote was announced. In the opinion of the Chair it is then too late to call for an aye and no vote. Upon casting up the vote it appears there are fifty-four ayes and thirty-seven noes, and the motion— MR. GREEN (Calhoun)—Mr. President, I ask for a verifi¬ cation of the vote. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is asked for a verification of the vote. As many as favor the adoption of the resolution— MR. BROWNE—Mr. President, I call for the ayes and noes upon the verification. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has ruled a call for the ayes and noes is not in order. If the gentleman desires to have the call for a division taken over again, the Chair will state the ques¬ tion. MR. GREER (Calhoun) — I would like to have the vote verified Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT—How does the gentleman wish it veri¬ fied. MR. GREER—I do not know' how it can be done except by an aye and no vote, but if the Chair rules otherwise, I ask that it be done by a rising vote. MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—I make the point of order that the gentleman's motion is simply in the nature of an appeal from the decision of the Chair. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I do not wish to be understood as appealing from the decision of the Chair. THE PRESIDENT—Has the gentleman any reason to l)e- lieve that the secretary has not counted the vote correctly? MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I think there is some mistake as to the vote, Mr. President, but I do not say it is on the Secretary. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman claim there is a mistake in the count, or does the gentleman think that upon a second vote some member may change his vote? MR. LOMAX—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 599 MR. LOMAX—I submit that unless the vote is taken by the yeas and nays, there is no means provided by which a verifi¬ cation of the vote can be had, MR. OATES—I am not in sympathy with the motion at all, but the Chair will remember when the rules were reported I made inquiry on this point. The Chair may not remember it, but I think some of the members will, and it is certainly the practice, and I think the parliamentary rule, that the ayes and noes may be demanded, and that is the highest verification that can be taken. I know that is the universal practice in Congress, under the code of laws which is recognized by that body, and made the code in this country. As I stated the universal practice in Congre.ss of the United States, and under Barclay’s Code which is adopted by that body and is incorporated into its rules, is that the yeas and nays may be taken as the highest verification of a vote at any time. For in¬ stance, just as here, a division was called for by the delegate from Walker, and the members arose pro and con. and were counted, but that is always considered, or may be considered as doubtful, and the ayes and noes may be demanded, even when the result is announced by the Chair, if the demand is made at once before any other proceedings be had. While I differ with the Chair, I do it most respectfully, and do not rise for the purpose of taking any appeal, but I think that on reflection the Chair will see that the rule is susceptible of this construction and is the better one in our practice. It will eliminate much trouble that many arise in future votes. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I hate to take up the time on what seems to be an unimportant matter, but I think the Chair is eminently right. When a vote is taken and disputed then the vote must be ascertained in the way in which it was originally taken. If it is by viva voce, and there is a call for a division, the members can stand up, or they can appoint tellers, but it is too late after a vote is gone into in one way then to change it to an aye and no vote, and I think the Chair is right. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, when the proposition is stated to the Convention, any delegate ma}'' demand an aye and no vote, if the call is sustained by the convention, but after the question is submitted to a viva voce vote it is then too late upon that proposition to call for an aye and no vote. After a division is called for if any gentleman challenges the correctness of the vote, then it is the duty of the Chair to submit the question for a verification, but the chair does not feel bound to submit the question for a verification of a vote simply in order that the advocates of a measure may secure another vote, because that demand might be continued indefinitely. As soon as we verified the vote, it might be claimed that that was not correct, and an- 600 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS other verification demanded. The gentleman did not challenge the correctness of the vote and therefore the Chair does not feel authorized to submit the question for a verification. MR. HARRISON—I desire to offer a privileged resolution. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that it cannot be done at this time, Mr. President. There is a question before the House. I make the point of order that it is out of or¬ der at this time. MR. HARRISON—It is simply fixing the time to which the House will adjourn. THE PRESIDENT—I have not heard the resolution. The Secretary will read it. The resolution was read: Resolved that when this Convention adjourns it adjourn to meet at 12 o’clock on Monday. THE PRESIDENT—What is the point of order made by the gentleman? MR. LONG (Walker)—I withdraw it. I have no objection to the resolution. I do not want to take up time on it. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state that in the opin¬ ion of the Chair a question of this kind is one of the highest priv¬ ileges and is in order. A vote being taken the resolution was adopted. MR. EYSTER—I ask unanimous consent for the introduction of a resolution. The resolution read as follows: Resolution No. 149, by Mr. Eyster: Resolved, That the courtesies and privileges of the floor of the Convention be extended to the Hon. William B. Jelks, Gov¬ ernor of Alabama; Charles E. Waller and E. M. Robinson. Rules suspended and resolution adopted. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I move to amend by adding the name of the Hon. Charles E. Waller of Hale. I move to amend by adding the name of Hon. Richard H. Clarke of Mobile. MR. BURNS—I thought the mciion was to suspend the rules to put the resolution in regard to Governor Jelks; that was the motion, to suspend the rules in order to act upon the motion to allow Governor Jelks the privilege of the floor. It was not for the amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 601 THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman make a point of order against the amendment? MR. BURNS—I do. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the point of order is well taken. Upon a vote the rules were suspended. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Now I move to amend by adding the name of the Hon. Charles E. Waller of Hale. MR. BURNS—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. BURNS—The rules have been suspended for the specific purpose of voting on the question whether W. D. Jelks shall be entitled to the privileges of this floor, and that is the reason for the suspension of the rules, and it is not open to amendment. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the rules are suspended for the purpose of considering that resolution, pro¬ posed by the gentleman from Morgan, and that resolution being before the Convention it is open to amendment, and the point of order is overruled. MR HEFLIN (Chambers)—I understood that the gentle¬ man from Monroe moved that the privileges of the floor be ex¬ tended to the Hon. Richard H. Clarke of Mobile. THE PRESIDENT—That order has already been made. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Then I move to amend the reso¬ lution by adding the name of Hon. Edward M. Robinson of Mo¬ bile, who is an ex-member of the Legislature. The amendment was adopted, and upon a further vote the amendment of the gentleman from Calhoun (Mr. Greer) being adopted, the original resolution, as amended,, was adopted. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolution. Objection is made by Mr. Pettus. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the report of the Committee on the Journal. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask that the rules be sus¬ pended and that leave be granted me to offer that resolution. I make a motion to that effect. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Lauderdale moves a suspension of the rules. 602 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The motion to suspend the rules was lost. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers) — Before the Committee on the Journal report I rise to a question of personal privileg’e. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of privilege. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—On yesterday I voted for the adoption of the minority report of the Committee on Executive Department of this State. This report was offered by the gen¬ tleman from Dallas. The stenographic report has me among those not voting or absent, and it has my brother taking the place that my name should appear in, on the side of the people, and not on the timid side. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I rise to a question of personal privilege. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of privilege. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I just want to state to the Con¬ vention that I object to taking the place of my brother from Chambers. MR. PROCTOR—^The Committee on Journal reports that the Journal is correct in all these matters that have been brought before the Convention. The report of the Committee on the Journal was read, and stated that the Journal for the nineteenth day was correct. MR. PETTUS—I move that the Convention proceed to the consideration of the report of the Committee on the Executive Department. THE PRESIDENT—The question before the House is the report of the Committee on the Journal. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I move that it be adopted. The motion was carried. MR. PETTUS—I renew my motion. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask unanimous consent to offer— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Limestone has the floor. MR. PETTUS—I renew my motion that we proceed with the consideration of the report of the Committee on the Executive Department. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 603 THE PRESIDENT—The motion is not in order. MR. PETTUS—I move to suspend the rules for that pur- pose. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Limestone moves that the rules be suspended and that the Convention— MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I ask the gentleman to withdraw his motion just a moment, for the introduction of an ordinance. MR. PETTUS—I withdraw the motion. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask leave to offer a resolu¬ tion to be referred to the proper committee, MR. WADDELL—I call for the regular order, Mr. President. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move a suspension of the rules' for the purpose of allowing Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale to introduce that resolution. There have been a number of resolutions intro¬ duced by consent. He simply wants to get that before a com¬ mittee. It is a matter which will come under the consideration of the House at some other time. MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask the gentleman if he won't make it general to all of the gentlemen in order that they may intro¬ duce resolutions? MR. deGRAFFENREID—No, sir. THE PRESIDENT—The motion is that the rules be sus¬ pended— MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I believe that the gentleman from Limestone withdrew his motion temporarily in order to give me an opportunity to introduce an ordinance. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I have a proposition that I think will meet with universal approval, if you will allow me to state it. THE PRESIDENT—There is a motion before the House to suspend the rules, which is not debatable. Upon a vote being taken the Convention refused to suspend the rules. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I ask unanimous consent for the purpose of saving time and helping out all our brethren, if they will listen to me: I won’t say a word afterwards, but just state the motion. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I object, Mr. President. «04 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—Objection is made. The next order of business is the call of the roll for the introduction of resolutions, ordinances, etc. Mr. Cornwall yielded his call to Mr. Rogers of Sumter. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I desire to introduce this, at the request of the Chairman of the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment made day before yesterday that the delegate from Sumter should write out clearly what was ambiguous, in Section 4 of the article on Executive Department. Ordinance 372, by Mr. Rogers of Sumter: The returns for every election for Governor, Lieutenant Gov¬ ernor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney-General, Superintendent of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, shall be sealed up and transmitted by the return¬ ing officers to the seat of government, and directed to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who shall, during the first week of the session, to which such returns shall be made open and pub¬ lish them in the presence of both houses of the General Assembly in joint convention; but the Speaker’s duty and the duty of the joint convention shall be purely ministerial. The result of the election shall be ascertained and declared by the Speaker from the face of the returns without delay. The person having the highest number of votes for any one of said offices shall be declared duly elected, but if two or more persons shall have an equal and the highest number of votes for the same office the General Assembly, by joint vote, without delay, shall choose one of said persons for said office. Contested elections for Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Sec¬ retary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General, Superinten¬ dent of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture and Indus¬ tries shall be determined by both houses of the General Assembly in such manner as may be prescribed by law. Referred to the Committee on Executive Department. MR. COFER—My name was called so rapidly that I did not have the opportunity to send up a resolution. I desire unanimous consent to send it up. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to inquire of my friend if he is the gentleman that objected to leave for me. The leave was given. Ordinance 373, by Mr. Cofer: An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to define in part the duties of Lieutenant Governor of this State as provided for by this Constitution. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 605 Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled, that the Lieutenant Governor of this State shall perform the duties required of the Private Secretary of the Governor, and shall receive for his services such compensation as may be allowed the private Secretary of the Governor. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. MR. BROWNE—^The roll was called so rapidly that I could not catch my name as it was called. I desire to introduce a reso¬ lution, and I will ask after the resolution has been read, to suspend the rules and put it on its passage. Resolution No. 150, by Mr, Browne: Resolved, That the report of the Committee on Taxation be set for the special order of this Convention, to be taken up and considered by sections, immediately after the conclusion of the existing special orders. MR. BROWNE-—I now move to suspend the rules in order to put the resolution upon its passage. Upon a vote being taken, the convention refused to suspend the rules, and the resolution was referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. BROWNE—I ask unanimous consent to withdraw it. Mr. Pettus, and Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) objected to a with¬ drawal. MR. CRAIG—I have an ordinance which was forwarded to me by a gentleman with the request that I introduce it, and I do so at his request. Ordinance No. 374, by Mr, Craig (by request) : To amend Section 1 of Article VIII of the Constitution of Alabama. Whereas very many of the people of Alabama have expressed themselves as unalterably opposed to the disfranchisement of any white man, except for crime, and have pledged many delegates to this Convention to observe this rule in framing a Constitution; and whereas by the express limitations contained in the IX and XXVth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the same rule must be applied to negro men, and if so applied in good faith, society would still be oppressed and debased by the exer¬ cise of voting by a large number of ignorant brutal men, wholly unfit to govern themselves and much less fit to govern others; and Whereas it is expected of this Convention and is its highest duty to so frame the Constitution, as that the Government of the 606 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS people of the State of Alabama shall be placed and forever remain in the hands of those of her citizens, to whom of ri^ht it belongs, viz: those who are intelligent enough to know the ri^ht and with moral courage to do right, therefore. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : That every woman possessing the qualifications hereinafter specified shall be entitled to register and vote. She must be twenty years old or upwards, and if a married woman, the wife of a citizen of the United States, and shall have resided in the election precinct in which she offers to vote for two years next preceding the election, and must be able to write legibly the required application for registration and sign her own name upon the registration list; and if her husband did not pay State and County taxes to the amount of $5 on property for the preceding year, then she must have paid taxes to that amount on wages or income to the amount of three hundred dollars during the preceding year. If a single woman, she must, in addition to the qualifications of residence and ability to write above prescribed for married women, have been born in one of the United States, or if born in a foreign country, must have resided in one of the United States, continuously since she was ten years old, and must have paid State and County taxes to the amount of $5 on property for the preceding year or have earned wages or income during the preceding 3 ^ear to the amount of three hundred dollars. And the following described women shall not l)e entitled to register nor vote: Women w^ho have been divorced, except only for the adultery of the husband; women who are dependent on another in whole or part for their maintenance, Women who live in adultery or fornication. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. BURNS—I think it should go to the Committee on Militia. Mr. Dent yielded his call to Mr. O'Neal of Lauderdale. Resolution 151, by Mr. O'Neal of Lauderdale: Resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention assem¬ bled : That it is the sense of this Convention that the General Assembly of Alabama should at its first meeting after the ratifi¬ cation of this Constitution fix the salary of the Governor of Ala¬ bama at five thousand dollars per annum ; provided the same can be done without an increase of taxation in this State. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 607 Ordinance 375, by Mr. Greer of Perry: An ordinance to provide for the filling of vacancies in certain offices in the several Counties of the State. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as- sembleci: That the Court of County Commissioners of the several Coun¬ ties in the State be empowered to fill all vacancies occurring in such counties b}^ reason of death, resignation, removal, impeach¬ ment, failure to qualify or other disability, in the following offices to wit: Probate Judge, Sheriff, Clerk of Circuit Court, Tax As¬ sessor, Tax Collector, Treasurer, Superintendent of Education, Coroner, Justice of the Peace, Constable, members of the Commis¬ sioners' Court and all elective offices. Second—The appointment so made by such court of County Commissioners to extend only until the next General Election; provided, that the Probate Judge may temporarily fill such va¬ cancies, until the next regular meeting of such Court of County Commissioners. Ordinance 376, by Mr. Hinson : An ordinance to establish an inferior court in cities of five thousand inhal)itants or more and to abolish the office of Justices of the Peace in such cities. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that there shall be elected by the qualified electors of each precinct of the Counties not exceeding two Justices of the Peace and one Constable. Such Justices shall have jurisdiction in all civil cases wherein the amount in controversy does not exceed one hundred dollars, except in cases of libel, slander, as¬ sault and battery and ejectment. In all cases tried before such Justices the right of appeal without the payment of costs, shall be secured l)y law, provided that in cities of five thousand popu¬ lation or more there shall be established an Inferior Court pre¬ sided over by a Judge to be elected by the General Assembly, which Inferior Court shall be in lieu of and shall exercise the same jurisdiction as Justices of the Peace. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Resolution by Mr. Jones of Montgomery: Resolved that hereafter there shall be no call for introduction of resolutions and ordinances; but any member desiring to intro¬ duce a resolution or ordinance shall send it to the Clerk’s desk at any time and the President at such time during the day as he may deem proper shall have such ordinance or resolution read and re¬ ferred to the appropriate committee. 608 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I ask a suspension of the rules that the resolution may be put upon its passage. I think all will agree that we will save a good deal of time by it. The reading of the resolution was called for. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—To save time I withdraw the motion to suspend the rules and will let it go to the committee. The resolution was referred to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—The hour of 11 o’clock having arrived under the rules of this Convention the call of roll will be suspended. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I desire to ask unanimous consent for the Judiciary Committee to return Ordinance 240 and ask that it be referred to the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. The request is made at the instance of the gentleman offering the ordinance. The reference was changed as requested. MR. FOSTER—I ask leave to have an ordinance relating to primary elections, which was referred to my committee, referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. The reference was changed as requested. MR. LONG (Walker)—My name is on the call, and before we adjourn, I ask to introduce a resolution. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to ask my friend if it has anything to do with this matter— MR. LONG (Walker)—I would like for the Avhole House to know what it is. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I object then. MR. LONG (Walker)—I move then to suspend the rules. By a vote of 51 ayes and 39 noes, the Convention refused to suspend the rules. THE PRESIDENT—The regular order will be the considera¬ tion of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. MR. BURNS—Isn’t there some mistake about that vote? THE PRESIDENT—It takes two thirds vote to suspend the rules. The regular order will be the consideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. The Secretary will read the next section. Sec. 9. The Governor may require information in writing, under oath, from the officers of the Executive Department named CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 609 in this article, or created by statute, on any subject relating^ to the duties of their respective offices; and he may at any time re¬ quire information in writing, under oath, from all officers and managers of State institutions, upon any subject relating to the condition, management and expenses of their respective offices and institutions. Any such officer or manager who makes a fully false report, or fails without sufficient excuse to make such report when demanded, is guilt}' of an impeachable offense. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will state that the only change in that article from the present article in the Constitution, is that it provides for the case of a refusal. Heretofore it provided, only in the case of a false report, but did not provide for the refusal to report at all. The present Constitution says that the officer shall be guilty of perjury and we simply make it an impeachable of¬ fense. We thought that would be better. THE PRESIDENT—What will the Convention do with the section? MR. WALKER—I desire to offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend by striking out the words “such report when demand¬ ed,” in line seven, and'insert in their stead the words “the required report on demand.” MR. WALKER—It occurs to me that as presented by the committee, the words such report, in the seventh line, refer neces¬ sarily to a wilfully false report. MR. JONES—I would like to agree to anything that my distinguished friend from Madison offers, but the Constitution is meant to be plain words for plain people to understand, and any such officer or manager who wilfully makes a false report, or without excuse fails to make such report when demanded, is guilty of an impeachable offense. There is no practical difference. No¬ body on earth would think “such report” meant a false report. I really think it is child’s play to he amending the Constitution in these particulars, and everything that comes along, and when we get to that Committee on Harmonics, we will fix it all up. MR. WALKER—The purpose of the amendment is simply to have the report say what is intended by the Committee, and I don’t think it does now. MR. HINSON—I move to lay the amendment on the table. The motion to table was lost by a vote of 37 ayes and 43 noes; upon further vote the amendment was adopted. 610 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)^I move the adoptioa of the Sec¬ tion as amended. The Section was adbpted. THE PRESIDENT—^The Secretary will read the next Sec¬ tion. The Secretary read Section 10, as follows: Sec. 10. The Governor may by proclamation on extraordinary occasions, convene the General Assembly at the seat of Govern¬ ment or at a different place, if since their last adjournment, that shall have become dangerous from an enemy, insurrection, or other lawless outbreak,^ or from any infectious or contagious diseases, he shall state specifically in such proclamation each matter concern¬ ing which the action of that body is deemed necessary. MR. SANFORD —~I move to amend Section 10, by adding at the end— THE PRESIDENT—^Will the gentleman send up his amend¬ ment. MR. SANFORD—-The words, “and the General Assembly shall at that time consider no other subjects.” THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman send up his amend¬ ment that it may be read at the Clerk’s desk, so that all members may hear it? MR. SANFORD—I beg pardon. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 10 by adding at the end of the fifth line the words “and the General Assembly shall consider no other sub¬ jects.” { MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move the adoption of the amendment. By a vote of 34 ayes and 39 noes the amendment was lost. MR. FITTS—I move the adoption of the Section as reported by the Committee as now amended. MR. MAXWELL—I have an amendment. Amend Section 10, Article V., by inserting in line four the words “and” after the word “diseases.” The amendment was adopted. MR. FITTS—-I move the adoption of the Section as now amended, and upon that I call for the previous question. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 611 On a vote the call for the previous question was sustained. A reading of the Section as amended was called for. The Section was read as follows: The Governor may by proclamation on extraordinary occa¬ sions convene the General Assembly at the seat of Government, or at a different place, if since their last adjournment, that shall have become dangerous from an enemy, insurrection, or other law¬ less outbreak, or from any infectious or contagious diseases, and he shall state specifically in such proclamation each matter con¬ cerning which the action of that body is deemed necessary. Upon a vote the Section as amended was thereupon adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next Sec¬ tion. Section 11 was read as follows: Sec. II. The Governor shall, from time to time, give to the General Assembly information of the state of the Government, and recommend to their consideration, such measures as he may deem expedient; and at the commencement of each regular session of the General Assembly, and at the close of his term of office, give information by written message of the condition of the State; and he shall account to the General Assembly, as may be pre¬ scribed by law, for all moneys received and paid out by him, or by his order; and, at the commencement of each regular session, he shall present to the General Assembly estimates of the amount of money required to be raised by taxation for all purposes. MR. FITTS—I move the adoption of that Section as reported by the Committee. The Section was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—Read the next Section. Section 12 was read as follows; Sec. 12. The Governor shall have power to remit fines and forfeitures, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law; and, after conviction, to grant reprieves, paroles, com¬ mutations of sentence and pardons. The Attorney General, Sec¬ retary of State and State Auditor, shall constitute a Board of Pardons, who shall meet on the call of the Governor, and before whom shall be laid all recommendations or petitions, for pardon or commutations or paroles, in cases of felony ; and the Board shall hear them in open session, and give their opinion in writing, to the Governor thereon, after which or on the Board’s failure to advise for more than sixty days, the Governor may grant or refuse the commutation, parole or pardon, as to him seems best 612 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS for the public interest. He shall communicate to the General As¬ sembly at each session, each case of reprieve, commutation, parole, or pardon, with his reasons therefor, and the opinion of the Board of Pardons in each case required to be referred; stating the name, crime and convict, the sentence, its date, and the date of reprieve, commutation, parole, or pardon. Pardons in cases of felony and other offenses involving the crimen falsi, shall not relieve from civil and political disabilities, unless specifically expressed in the pardon. MR. FITTS—I move the adoption of that section as reported by the Committee. MR. LONG (Butler)—Mr. President, I object to that. I have an amendment- that I wish to offer to that. THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman withdraw for the purpose of considering the amendment? MR. FITTS—Yes, I withdraw in order to allow that amend¬ ment with the understanding that my motion may be renewed. Amendment by Mr. Long (Butler); Amend by striking out the words “crimen falsi” where they appear in line fourteen of section 12, and insert the words “crimi¬ nal offense.” MR. LONG (Butler)—Now, Mr. President, the only reason that I have for asking for that amendment is that I want plain English language put in this Constitution, so that everybody can understand what it means. I do not think we should have any foreign language in this Constitution. I state to you here and now that a Populite in my County would go down to some of the beats there, and use the words “crimen falsi” and carry every vote in the beat, (Laughter.) and make the biggest bugaboo out of those words possible, and if the Committee does not like the words criminal offense, why they can get the definition of the words “crimen falsi” and put in what they think is proper. MR. WALKER—Will the gentleman allow an interruption? MR. LONG (Butler)—Yes. MR. WALKER—Would not this answer your purpose. Strike out the words “crimen falsi” in line fourteen and insert in lieu thereof the words “moral turpitude.” MR. LONG (Butler)—I will accept it if you say “moral turpitude or criminal offense.” MR. FITTS—We have no objection. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—We will accept that. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 613 MR. LONG (Butler)—I will accept it with “moral turpitude.” MR. LOMAX—But the gentlemen from Butler attaches a condition to his acceptance of the substitute— THE PRESIDENT—He withdrew his condition. MR. WALKER—I offer that as a substitute, or amendment to the amendment. MR. LOMAX—The substitute is entirely agreeable to the Committee. MR. LONG (Butler)—I do not want to delay the Conven¬ tion. All I want to do is to get the plain English what we want in the Constitution, and I will withdraw that “criminal offense,” if they want to call it moral turpitude. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Butler accepts the suggestion of the gentleman from Madison, and the Committee accepts the amendment. Upon a vote the amendment was adopted. MR. MERRILL—I have an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend section 12 by inserting after the word “interest,” in the ninth line, the follow¬ ing: in cases demanding prompt action, the Governor may grant reprieves, paroles, commutations of sentence and pardons, without delay and without consultation with the other members of the Board of Pardons. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I think my friend misconceives when he puts “reprieves” in there, as the article don’t restrict the Governor at all about reprieves, because reprieves have to be acted on at once. It is pardons, commutations and paroles. I do not think he ought to be hampered but on the question of a reprieve, that can’t hurt anything except not hanging a man for a few days. MR. MERRILL—As I understand the section, as it now stands, the Governor has no power to act without consultation with the Board of Pardons, until after the expiration of sixty days. MR. SAMFORD—That does not refer to reprieves. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If my friend will allow me, I see he wants to help us out in the article; that only applies to pardons, commutations and paroles, but it does not to reprieves at all. He don’t go before the Board on reprieves at all. MR. FITTS—^Will the gentleman from Barbour withdraw it? MR. MERRILL—I withdraw it. MR. PETTUS—I have an amendment. 614 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The amendment was read: Amend by striking out the words ‘'Attorney General/’ in the third line of said section, and inserting in lieu thereof the word “Treasurer.” MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I move to lay the amendment on the table, MR. PETTUS—I would like to ask the gentleman from Lau¬ derdale to withdraw his motion, in order that I may state my reasons in one sentence. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I Avithdraw for that purpose. MR. PETTUS — I understand that the Attorney General sometimes appears as the prosecuting officer of the State, and I do not think that the prosecuting officer ought to sit as a member of the Board of Pardons to consider applications that may be made— MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—He appears in the lower courts? MR. PETTUS—No, not in the lower courts. For that reason I offer the amendment to substitute the Treasurer and let him sit with the Auditor on the Board of Pardons instead of the At¬ torney General. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The committee carefully con¬ sidered all that. The Attorney-General, as a rule, never appears in the lower courts, but he does appear in the Supreme Court, and, therefore, he is generally conversant with the cases of mo¬ ment, as they generally go to the Supreme Court, and, therefore, with the bulk of the cases that will come before the Board. He is an officer learned in the law, and one to whom Governors always resort for information. I doubt if there is a serious case in which the Governor has acted in twenty-five years in Alabama, that he has not first called on the Solicitor, and asked, what do you think? Give us the people’s side. And the object of the committee in putting the Attorney-General there was not only because he was learned in the law, but that there would be somebody on that Board who would probably represent if he learned at all, the side of the State. Now, it is the hardest matter in the world when a man is to be hung, and his people come up before a Board, or a Governor, asking a pardon or a commutation of his sentence, to have anybody to come there and say hang this man, don’t extend any clemency. People don’t like to do that. They say let the Governor or the Board tussel it out, and our object in having the Attorney-General in there was not to make a blood-thirtsy Board, but to have some one man who, above all others, if he leaned any way, would lean towards looking after the rights of the State. I am satisfied that if my friend had been on the committee when the discussion was had, he would not insist on putting the Treas¬ urer in their instead of the Attorney-General. Now, if it were a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 615 solicitor who prosecuted the case in the courts below, and, there¬ fore, no matter how conscientious he was, mij^ht probably have imbibed some personal feeling^, the objection mi^ht be tenable, but it seems to the committee that the Attorney-General is a much better man than the Treasurer. MR. PETTUS—I would like to ask the gfentleman from Montgfomery a question. MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. PETTUS—The authority of that Board is merely ad¬ visory ? MR. JONES (Montgfomery)—Yes, entirely. MR. PETTUS—It seems to me that the dignity of the State would be sustained by the Governor, who would have to pass on the recommendation of the Board, and that the Governor could sufficiently represent the interests of the State in that matter, and the reason I object to the Attorney-General being a member of the Board, is because, as the gentleman from Montgomery has stated, he would lean towards the State. I think the Board that sits upon applications for pardons should be impartial, and should not lean one way or the other, and I, therefore, move the adoption of the amendment. MR. SAMFORD—Being somewhat familiar with the feel¬ ings of the solicitors of this State with reference to their at^- tude in prosecuting criminals, I feel constrained to say that as a general rule they are in a better position to pass upon the appli¬ cation for a pardon than any other set of men in the State, and with as much mercy, and as we are to have a Board of Pardons in this State, it occurs to me, and it occurred to the committee that was discussing this matter, that the Attorney-General, who represents the State before the Supreme Court, ought to be a mem¬ ber of the Board, not for the purpose of representing the State, and in prosecuting before the Board of Pardons, but for the reason that he is familiar, or would likely be familiar with the facts on both sides of the question. The Attorney-General of this State is always a man learned in the law. In ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, he is as far removed from the circumstances surrounding the commission of the crime as any other officer within the State. He has absolutely no interest in it, and the only question that is brought before him for consideration is what does mercy require in this matter; what does the interest of the commonwealth require; what does the interest of the criminal require. Being a lawyer, being a man who is in the habit of weighing these matters, and these other members who are on the Board not necessarily being learned in the law, and not knowing how to weigh these things pro and con, it occurs 616 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS to me that the addition of the Attorney-General of the State to this Board of Pardons makes it a very much stronger Board than it would otherwise be. All of these things were weighed before the committee; this question was carefully considered, and it was not passed over hurriedly, and I trust that this amendment will not prevail, and I, therefore, move to lay the amendment on the table. The motion was seconded, and by a vote of 84 ayes to 13 noes, the amendment was lost. MR. JONES—I have an amendment. Amend Section twelve, line six, by adding after the word felony the words “except in cases of impeachment.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The committee, in drafting this article, left out impeachment, and there is some doubt whether the Governor under the broad language of this section, might not have power to pardon in cases of impeachment, and so out of abundant caution, we ask to add that. A vote being taken the amendment was adopted. MR. FITTS—I move the adoption of this section as amended, and on that I call for the previous question. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I ask the gentleman to withdraw that a moment. I want to offer an amendment. MR. FITTS—-I will" withdraw. MR. SMITH—To amend section twelve by inserting in the ninth line, after the word “interest” the following: Provided the Governor shall have power to suspend the execution of any sen¬ tence until the Board of Pardons shall have acted.” MR. JONES—Now I call my friend’s attention to the first part of the section that says that the Governor shall have power to remit fines and forfeitures, under such rules as may be prescribed by law, and after conviction to grant reprieves and so on; that would cover the case of the suspension of a sentence which the board was considering it. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—If it clearly showed that was in¬ tended to be done without consultation with the Board of Pardons, I think it would, but reading it all together, I am in grave doubt as to whether or not he would not have to call the Board of Pardons together in order to grant reprieves, and I introduce it merely to relieve it of that ambiguity. MR. JONES—I W'ill state to my friend that the conclusion is absolutely cut out because there are but three Jhings that go be¬ fore the Board of Pardons; that is an absolute pardon, a commu- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 617 tation, or a parole. That is all that the board has anything to do with. Therefore, I think that section is entirely free from the ob¬ jection which might appear from a casual reading of it. MR. BOONE (Mobile)—I move to table the amendment. The motion to table was carried. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I offer an amendment. The amendment was read: Move to amend Section twelve by adding the words “and approved by the Board of Pardons.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Where is that. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—By adding to the section the words— THE PRESIDENT—At the end of the section? MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Yes, sir. It occurred to me that perhaps the Governor alone ought not to be allowed to restore the franchise, without consultation with the board. Sometimes that has been abused, for individual purposes, and the promotion of ambition, and it would be better and more satisfactory where a party has been convicted of a felony, or any other offense which disfranchise him, to have the approval of others besides the Gov¬ ernor for the restoration of the franchise. MR. LOMAX—I offer an amendment. The amendment was read. Amend by inserting in line ten, before the word “reprieve,” the words “the remission of fines and forfeitures.” On a vote of 62 ayes to 20 noes the amendment was adopted. MR. LOMAX—The purpose "of the amendment, Mr. Presi¬ dent, is simply to require the Governor to report to the General Assembly not only reprieves and pardons, but fines and forfeitures remitted. MR. FITTS—That is satisfactory to the committee. THE PRESIDENT—The committee expresses it willingne.‘^s to accept the amendment. And upon a vote the amendment was adopted. MR. FITTS—I now move the adoption of that section as amended and on that I ask for the previous question. The call for the previous question was sustained, and upon a vote the section as amended was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next section. 618 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Section 13 was read as follows: Sec. 13. Every bill which shall have passed both Houses of the General Assembly shall be presented to the Governor: if he approve, he shall sign it ; but if not, he shall return it with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large upon the Journal and proceed to reconsider it. If the Governor’s message proposes amendments, which would remove his objections, the House to which it is sent may amend the bill, and send it with the Gov¬ ernor’s message to the other House, Avhich may adopt, but cannot amend said amendment, and both Houses concur¬ ring in the amendment, the bill shall again be sent to the Gov¬ ernor and acted on by him as on other bills. If the House to which the bill is returned, refuses to make such amendment, it shall proceed to reconsider; and if a majority of the whole number elected to that House, shall vote for the passage of the bill, it shall be sent with the objections to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by a majority of the whole number of that House, it shall become a law’ If" the House to which the bill is returned makes the amendment, and the other House declines to pass the same, the House shall proceed to reconsider, as though the bill had originated therein, and such proceedings shall be taken thereon as above provided. In every case, the vote of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the members voting for or against the bill, shall be entered upon the Journals of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the Governor. Sunday’s e.xcepted, within six days after it shall have been presented, the same shall become a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the General Assembly, by their adjournment or recess, prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law; but bills presented to the Governor within five days before the adjournment of the Gen¬ eral Assembly may be approved by the Governor at any time with¬ in ten days after the final adjournment, if approved and deposited with the Secretary of State within that time. Every vote, order or resolution to which concurrence of both Houses may be neces¬ sary; except questions of adjournment, and the bringing on of elections by the two Houses, and amending this Constitution shall be presented to the Governor; and, before the same shall take ef¬ fect, be approved by him; or, being disapproved, shall be re passed by both Houses according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill. MR. JONES—There is an amendment pending to Section 13. THE PRESIDENT—Let the amendment be read from the Clerk’s desk. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 13 by striking out the words “or recess” and by adding after the words CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 619 ‘Mn which case it shall not be a law'' the followingf words, “But when return is prevented by a recess, such bill must be returned to the House in which it originated within two days after it re¬ assembles, otherwise it shall become a law." MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I Avant to explain that without the amendment if the Governor was prevented by a recess from returning a bill in five days there would not be any ol)ligation on him to return it at all, he could pocket it. The object of the Com¬ mittee is that when the return is prevented by a recess in five days, the Governor must return it to the House in two days after its reassembling. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Can I ask the gentleman a ques¬ tion ? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—That amendment does not refer to that part of the Section which says “bills presented to the Gov¬ ernor within five days before the adjournment shall remain with him and he shall have the power to a])prove or veto at any time within ten days after the final adjournment? MR. JONFvS (Montgomery)—No, we are speaking now of the case of a recess, not of an adjournment. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I have an amendment to that. THE PRESIDENT—Does it relate to the amendment of the Committee? MR. HEFLIN—No, sir. MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR, JONES (Montgomery)—I will ansAver all your ques¬ tions with great pleasure as soon as Ave pass on the amendment of the Committee so as Ave can see what we are to be hammered over. A vote being taken the amendment offered by the Committee was adopted. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I have an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: “Amend Section 13 by striking out the words beginning in line 21 “but bills presented to the Governor Avithin five days before the adjournment of the General Assembly may be approved at any time within ten days after the final adjournment, if approved and deposited by the Sec¬ retary of State within that time." 620 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I simply desire to say that this puts it in the power of the Governor to allow a bill to over that has been placed in his office only five days before the final ad¬ journment. If the Governor should not agfree with the majority of the House and Senate, the power is placed in his hands to kill the bill, to refuse to allow it to become a law within ten days after the leg:islature adjourns, and the author of the bill is helpless and can have no relief in that line until another legfislature is elected. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—All that occurred to the Com¬ mittee but under the present Constitution the General .Asseniblv is helpless after the fifth day as to an}- bill they may send to the Governor. After the commencement of the five days every bill that goes there can be pocketed by the Governor if he wants to do it, so that in that respect we have not put the General Assembly in an}- more helpless condition than under the present Constitution; but it is known to my friend from Chambers and to all of us that towards the heel of the session a ('lovernor is so crowded with bills that he cannot read them. I do not think there has been a man in office in at lea.st twenty years who has read one-halt of the bills w'hich he has signed towards the close of the session. It is absolutely a physical impossibility. He has to rely on the At¬ torney General and some trusted friends and they read in a hurry to avoid 12 o’clock at night on the last night and he is acting in the (lark. The object of this provision is to give the Governor in whom the people trust, an opportunity to calmly consider the mass of the bills that is always piled on his table the night the General Assembly adjourns. Members of this House wdll remem¬ ber some very meritorious bills which were sent down to the Gov¬ ernor on the last night of the session, and, owing to his feeble health and not expecting any more bills, at a very late hour he left and under the common practice in this State those bills died the death because they w-ere not signed before the adjournment of the General Assembly. Afterwards the Governor taking ad¬ vice, concluded that the spirit of the Constitution, although it had never been acted on to that extent in Alabama, allowed him five days after the bill got to him to approve it. even if he approved it when the legislature w'as not in session, and he did approve five of those bills. On principle I think he was right, but there had been so much doubt about it that up to that time no Governor had acted on a bill after the General Assembly had adjourned. Now-, we must trust the individual who is Governor. It is the easiest thing in the w-orld if the Governor w-ants to, with 200 bills locked up in that little office that Governor Oates so eloquently described yesterday afternoon, to go off and come back a week afterwards and .sit in there in private and if he is a bad man simply say to the Secretary, “Here, Mr. Secretary, I signed this before the General Assembly adjourned.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 621 In a g^reat many of the larger States it has been found ab¬ solutely necessary to give the Governor some time after the ad¬ journment of the Legislature in which to pass on bills that have been pending before him not more than five days. That is the case in New York, only they give him thirty days. We thought there was an evil under the present practice and that it could be remedied, that it would advance wise and good legislation, pre¬ vent trickery and give people an opportunity to be heard, if need be, and relieve the Governor and enable him to discharge his du¬ ties more intelligently. For these reasons I regret that the Com¬ mittee cannot agree to the amendment of the delegate from Cham¬ bers. MR. HEFLIN—I move the adoption of my amendment. Mr. Oates had risen to obtain recognition from the Chair. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Did the gentleman from Mont¬ gomery ask me a question? MR. OATES—No, sir; I rose to speak for your amendment. MR. HEFLIN—I thought you asked me a question. MR. OATES—I cannot concur with the Committee. I am in favor of the motion made by the delegate from Chambers, and I wish to state to this Convention why I entertain that view. It is quite true, as stated by the Chairman of the Committee, as every ex-Governor knows, that under the present Constitution he will be so crowded with bills the last night of the session that it is impossible for any man to read them, and it practically de¬ prives the Governor of performing that function which is com¬ mitted to him by the Constitution. In my own experience I had with me the attorney-General, the delegate from Tuscaloosa just on my right, and several other gentlemen in whom I could trust, to try to get through with the bulk of the hills, and did get through with all, I believe, but two on one occasion, and on an¬ other occasion I was not quite so successful. Now, it is an evil, there is no doubt about that, and it calls aloud for a remedy. The question is whether the remedy is to be as is proposed by the Committee or otherwise, to wit, l>y a restriction or limitation upon the General Assembly. The Legislature, under the present Con¬ stitution, is so loaded down with local measures, their time is so taken up—and it is quite natural that every member of either House shall want to dispose of and obtain the passage of measures which are of the greatest interest to his people of a local nature— that they neglect the general legislation until the last and then dump the most important bills almost altogether during the last day and night on the Governor. Now I believe the better way to remedy this evil is to pro¬ vide that no general law shall be passed—no general bill shall be 622 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS passed during^ the three last days of the General Assembly. Then they would pass them before that time and it would ^ive the Governor at least that many days to consider them. No general bill should be passed unless it was on reconsideration during" those days, and that would give the Governor time to read them. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—What will the General Assem¬ bly do if you cut them off from local legislation and do not permit them to pass any general legislation in those last three days? MR. OATES—^They would find plenty to do. When they cut off the local legislation, as this Convention probal)ly will, there will be a residuum, so that they will have under consideration at each session several local bills, and I would have it provided that they cannot pass any general law during the three last days of the session except upon reconsideration. Now, the provision reported by the Committee, and which is now before this Convention, to allow the General Assembly when the Governor vetoes or practically objects to any features in a bill to amend that bill. I think that is wise and highly proper. The Legislature would find plenty to do during the three last days, and it is better to put the limitation there than it is to make an exception to the almost universal rule for there are very few States, and I didn't hear the Chairman mention but one, to wit, New York, which allows the Governor after the adjournment of the Legislature to approve any bill. And suppose that he sees proper to kill off any bill that comes before him and that he may not want to veto and send to the General Assembly. He will just let it lie by until after the adjournment and do nothing to it, and kill it in that way. Wherever he vetoes a bill, let it go back to the General Assembly and give them a chance to pass upon it. Now, there never has been an exception to that rule and my friend and distinguished Chairman of this Committee when in the Executive Chair of the State for four years I venture to say never under¬ took to approve a bill after the adjournment of the General As¬ sembly. I had a very able argument put up before me by a dele¬ gate on this floor, a distinguished lawyer, citing authorities, to sign a bill after the Legislature adjourned but as there was no prece¬ dent on the part of the Governor of scarcely and of the States in the Union except where special provision in the Constitution al¬ lowed it, I declined to do so. This is breaking a precedent that is almost universal. It is not deemed wise that the Governor should have this power of approving bills after the Legislature has adjourned and gone away. Why, go to the Congress of the United States, and the President never attempts to approve anything after the adjournment of Congress. J MR. O'NEAL—Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 623 MR. OATES—Certainly. MR. O’NEAL—Would you permit the Leg^islature to con¬ sider local bills during the last three days? MR. OATES—Of course if they are prohibited from passing any general bill at that time, they might occupy their time as stated awhile ago. MR. O’NEAL—Are not local bills frequently as vicious and dangerous to the State as general bills? MR. OATES—^Yes, but every man knows that local bills are very short and easy to read, and you can read them without any trouble. The great long bills are mostly general laws and those are the ones which require the greatest consideration. MR. WATTS—If the legislature has passed upon a bill, by both houses, what harm can there be to allow the Governor to approve it within ten days afterwards, as well as to approve it during the session of the Legislature? This don’t say “disap¬ prove,” it says “approve.” MR. OATES—There is a precedent to the contrary that is unbroken except in one or two States, and I do not think this innovation is at all necessary. That is my answer to your ques¬ tion. I think we had better maintain the old practice of limiting and restricting the Legislature from passing general laws during the three last days. If there are local bills that are of considerable length, the Governor will manage very well to get along with them. They are not so important to the public as the general laws by any means, and with that limitation which, I am author¬ ized to state authoritatively I think I can state confidently, the Committee on Legislative Department, when it makes its report, will report, I think the matter will be in the best possible shape. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I would like to ask the gentleman a question. If a bill is passed by both houses of the General As¬ sembly and sent to the Governor less than five days before the final adjournment, if the Governor simply withholds his approval, what becomes of the bill—if he neither approves nor disapproves? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It is dead. MR. OATES—Do you mean what effect it would have? MR. WILSON—Yes, sir. MR, OATES—It would fail; but that would be a departure from what is generally done, and it is not to be presumed that the Governor would do that. MR. COBB—It occurs to me that this provision reported by the Committee on Executive Department is an exceedingly wise 624 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS one. The Governor of the State of Alabama, is, in a very im¬ portant sense, a part of its legislative department. In the Con¬ stitution, we provide before any act in the nature of legislation shall become a law, it shall have the approval and assent of the Governor. The supposition and intention is that the acts of the General Assembly shall be carefully scrutinized by the Chief Execu¬ tive in order to prevent hasty and improvident legislation. Now, any provision which increases his power in this regard and gives him a better opportunity so to scrutinize the actions of the Gen¬ eral Assembly is a wide departure from heretofore existing pre¬ cedents. But I have no respect for precedents merely as such. If we can find a better way we should pursue it, and not hamper ourselves and tie ourselves to the old way just because it is the old way. The gentleman from Mont¬ gomery, my distinguished friend, Governor Oates, has been unable, as has every other gentleman on this floor, and as they will be unable, to point out one single solitary objection to the proposi¬ tion made here by the report of the committee. And this, for the reason that where bills go to him within a certain time of the ad¬ journment, he can easily prevent these bills from becoming laws, by simply refusing his assent. The Legislature adjourns and the laws are not enacted. He may often times find himself in this situation. Here is a bill about which he has doubt. It is an im¬ portant matter. He is willing to trust the Attorney-General or any other friend, but he wants to pass his own cool and deliberate judgment upon it. He has not the time to do it, and, therefore, out of abundant caution, he refuses to let it become a law at all. Give him this ten days and he wdll have this opportunity to de¬ liberate. to consider, and to examine and thus avoid the difficulty of refusing to permit a good measure to become a law by reason of the lack of opportunity afforded him to examine it. What is the harm, I repeat, and as has. been repeated heretofore? If he approves the bill, it is a law; if he refuses to approve it, it is not a law. What harm is it to give him a little time to say whether he will approve it. His approval of it before the adjournment of the Legislature can have no possible effect different from his ap¬ proval of it ten days after the adjournment, and the argument made by my friend from Montgomery has no force when he at¬ tempts to show that it would have the effect of preventing the re¬ turn of the bill to the Legislature. It can have no such effect as that. If he is staisfied, if he has examined, if he has deliberated and come to a conclusion that it is not a good bill, any conscien¬ tious Governor would return it to the Legislature and give them their Constitutional power to re-examine it. But it is because of this lack of time that good laws may fail, as they often have. Now, there is another effect that arises under the present law'. My friend from Montgomery does not seem to lay any stress upon the fact that local bills are signed by the Governor in this hurried manner when, upon deliberation, he would not sign CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 625 them. We have an instance before us here today. This very convention will be confronted with a proposition that a bill was passed by the last General Assembly of Alabama throug-h fraud, and you will be asked to undo that fraud. And why was that pos¬ sible? Because it was presented on the very last day of the ses¬ sion. It appeared to the Governor to be simply a local bill. He instituted no inquiry about it. He approved it. If he had held that bill for ten days, if the facts that have been presented to one of your committees had been presented to him, he never would have approved it, and this evil with which we are now a icted on account of this complaint that conies to us would have been avoided. I do hope that this convention will consider this matter carefully and will adopt the su^g’estion of the Committee on the Executive Department. MR. FITTS—I move to table the amendment of the delegate from Chambers. MR. SAMFORD—I hope you will withdraw that. I just want to say one word. MR. FITTS—I will withdraw it if you will renew it for me when you say that word. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I wish the gentleman would withdraw it for me. MR. HEFLIN—All ri^ht, I will pay you back. MR. SANFORD—Ordinarily, when the legislature adjourns, all legislation for that session ceases. But if this section is adopted without amendment it will be impossible for the people of Ala¬ bama to know what the law will be at the adjourning of the legis¬ lature. Rig'hts of property, within ten days, may be involved in it. Crimes may be involved in it. When the legislature adjourns, all the acts are known to the people but here ten days afterwards, an act today may be perfectly innocent is made a crime. Now, as to questions of property involved in it: Men make contracts and transactions of every description that are perfectly valid but a law is approved ten days afterwards of which the par¬ ties to the transactions have no knowledge what ever and they become invalid and this will g^ive to rise to litigation. I can see no reason for continuing- legislation when the General Assembly is not in session. For ninety 3 ^ears we have gotten along without such a rule. When the General Assembly adjourns all legislation for that session ceases. I can see no reason why we should depart from that rule now and I hope the motion of the gentleman from Chambers, to strike out will prevail. 626 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS And now, in accordance with my promise to the deleg'ate from Tuscaloosa, although against my judgment and wishes, I renew the motion to table the amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The Committee will withdraw the motion to table so as to allow those other gentlemen to be heard, although they would not let me speak the other day under the same circumstances. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I do not desire to detain the Convention at this time with a speech, but I differ with my friend from Macon who says he does not see anything in the argument of the gentleman from Montgomery. We have three departments of government in this State, the Judiciary, the Executive and the Legislative. They are supposed to be independent of each other but the position the gentleman from Macon takes puts the Legis¬ lative Department absolutely in the hands of the Chief Executive after the General Assembly has adjourned and the members have gone home. This Committee, in some of the lines above this part which I desire to strike out, has provided that when a bill goes to the Governor and he finds objections thereto, he can return his objections with the bill to the House and the House can amend to suit his objections, and the Senate can do the same, returning it then to the Governor who has the power to approve. It pro¬ vides further that if the House fails to agree with the Governor in his suggestions, they have a right to ignore those suggestions and, representing the sovereign people of Alabama, to override the veto of the Governor of the vStale. It is a right that members of the General Assembly have representing their constituents. I submit to this Convention that a bill could be submitted to the Governor within five days— MR. SANFORD—Will the gentleman submit to a question? MR. HEFLIN—I will. MR. SAMFORD—Suppose a bill is passed by both Houses of the legislature in the last five days of the session and is sent to the Governor, has he not the power to keep it and not return it to the legislature and thereby make himself part of the legisla¬ tive power just as much as under this clause? MR. HEFLIN—That is true. MR. SAMFORD—Does this change his power over the legis¬ lature? Is not the effect simply to give him more time for con¬ sideration? MR. HEFLIN—^That is true as to the five days. During those five days he can return it or can refuse to return it. But this Com¬ mittee undertakes now to extend ten days more of time when the gentleman might be representing the County of Pike in this hall CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 627 and would have no right to recall his bill from that Governor who might purposely allow it to die by failing to return it to the Sec¬ retary of State with his approval. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—This time is not extended to any bill on earth except those pending at the time the Legislature adjourns and which have been sent to him within five days before the adjournment and that for the purpose of approval. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I think I understand this ques¬ tion and I am objecting to giving the Governor the right to allow a bill to die without expressing his opinion. MR. FITTS—He has that right now. MR. HEFLIN—But the Legislature has the right to override the opinion of the Chief Executive at any time it sees fit to do so. It has done it and it does it every time the Legislature meets. MR. FITTS—Has not the Governor exactly the same right now for this five days? MR. HEFLIN—How about the ten days afterwards? MR. FITTS—The Legislature would be gone then and they would have no right. MR. HEFLIN—That is it exactly and I thank the gentleman from Tuscaloosa for making that point. I was undertaking to get to it, but he has expressed it better than I could. That is the meat that I am striking at now. It gives him a power he has not now and robs the Legislature of the right it has now and for that reason I think this part of the report ought to be stricken out and the Governor ought to be required to sign these bills before the Legislature adjourns, and he should not be given the power to sign or refuse to sign a bill when the General Assembly which created it has adjourned. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—When I first read this Section of this Article I agreed with what has been said by the gentleman from Chambers. It struck me that it was increasing the powers of the Governor so far as his duties in connection with the law¬ making power is concerned. But after further consideration it is perfectly apparent to me that this particular provision does not in any way increase the powers of the Governor in this respect. Under the Constitution, as it now is and which it is*not proposed to change, if a bill reaches the Governor within five days before adjournment of the Legislature, all the Governor has to do to kill it is simply to keep it. He does not have to veto it and return it to the General Assembly and thereby give the General Assembly the right, which the gentleman from Chambers insists it should have, of passing the bill over his veto. He does not have to re- 628 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS turn it to the General Assembly at all. He neither has to approve it or veto it, but if he just lays it aside, it does not become a law. So I say this provision does not in any way give the Governor any further power to kill legislation. The gentleman from Montgomery says it is to be presumed that any conscientious Governor would not hold a bill during those five days and thereby deprive the General Assembly from passing it over his veto. I concur that he would not and I also believe any conscientious Governor would not abuse the ten days’ privilege which is given him to investigate and find out about the merits of the bill and approve it after the General Assembly has adjourned if he sees fit. Not to veto it, he has that power already, not by an express vote, but just to do nothing. I agree that a conscientious Governor would not intentionally stick a bill in a pigeon hole or pocket it and keep it for the five days and not return it; but itf might be that he would not have an opportunity to inform hirn- self so as to form a judgment or he might not have sufficient opportunity to inform himself, as pointed out by the delegate from Macon, to justify his veto or approval of the bill and this ten days additional time may be of great benefit to the Governor in as¬ certaining what is meritorious legislation and so far from hinder¬ ing proper legislation it seems to me that it is in the interest of meritorious legislation. There may be questions of facts in rela¬ tion to a bill about which the Governor desires to get further in¬ formation and about which he is unwilling to trust others and this ten days will give him the opportunity of finding out those things which might lead to his approval of a good bill, whereas but for this he might neither approve or disapprove, and thereby a good provision might become a law where otherwise it would not. MR. FITTS—I renew my motion to table the amendment of the delegate from Chambers. A vote being taken the motion to table was carried. MR. FITTS—I now move the adoption of the Section as amended and upon that I call the previous question. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to a point of order. The gen¬ tleman from Tuscaloosa being out of his seat cannot be recognized by the Chair. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would call the attention of the Chair to the fact that permission was given to the members, of the committee to sit together during the debate on their report.. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair does no remember any such resolution. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 629 MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I have an amendment to that sec¬ tion. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 13 by adding^ after the words “to reconsider it” in the fourth line the following: “If the Governor’s message pro¬ poses no amendment which would remove his objection to the bill, the House in which the bill originated may proceed to recon¬ sider and if the majority of the whole number elected to that House vote for the passage of the bill, the bill shall be sent to the other House, which shall in like manner consider it and if a majority of the whole number elected to that House vote for the passage of the bill the same shall be a law, notwithstanding the Governor’s veto.” MR. deGRAFFENRElD—My attention is called to the fact by the gentleman who sits with me (Mr. O’Neal) that this section makes no provision for a bill becoming a law when it is vetoed by the Governor and the Governor fails to recommend any amend¬ ment to the bill. As I read Section 13 it provides that in the event the Governor vetoes a bill, it shall be returned to the General As¬ sembly, and it further provides that if the Governor proposes amendments to the bill the House in which the bill originated may reconsider the bill and the amendments, and the bill as amended may be sent to the other House and there reconsidered, but I can find nowhere in the article any provision for passing a bill with¬ out amendment over the Governor’s veto. If under a proper con¬ struction of Section 13 that be true, it is because the gentlemen have casually omitted it and my amendment is to cure what I think is a defect in that particular. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—Speaking in connection and along the line of the amendment the gentleman has offered, it seems to me that the proposition embraced in the report of the committee is the most radical and the most far-reaching that has yet come before this Convention. The proposition embraces the idea and carries with it the theory that the Governor may move amend¬ ments to bills pending before the General Assembly. It strikes down the line of demarkation which has existed from the begin¬ ning between the different and co-ordinate departments of govern¬ ment. For that reason, Mr. President, I shall oppose the provision in the report of the committee. Why should he at this late day, at this period in the history of our State and of our country, suggest for the first time that the Executive Officer should, for the purpose of amending bills, be¬ come a member of the General Assembly. Why sir, the executive functions and those of the law-making body are entirely distinct, they are co-ordinate but inconsistent. The Governor if he fails ta approve the action of the General Assembly can put upon it the 630 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS stamp of his disapproval, and then the law-making' power the or¬ dinary and direct representatives of the people hLe the right to say whether the veto of the Governor shall stand. But now this insidious innovation proposes that the Governor to all intents and purposes may not only exercise the executive function but that the the Representatives Of the people and insist upon amendments to their bill. Now sir it is possible that we shall never have an ambitious anTtatriguLl Governor, but suppose we do, and suppose he wants not merely to pass upon the laws the people’s representatives have enactecT mak^hiri? and frame those laws, he could easily make his terms and conditions and say you must accept this sSoll V bwause the prop^ sition seeks to remove the ancient landmarks, because it seeks to exemuitel^" between the legislative and the the ^h"er^"Tli*v h department to encroach upon the other All history has taught us that. We know that from k'"* liberty began upon earth there has been a con- stant conflict between the Executive and the law-making power And now for the first time, so far as I know, in American Con¬ stitutions, the proposition is made that the Executive should be¬ come not an ordinary member of the law-making power but that he should have the power to alter and amend it. and to say “acceO orVJr ''--P* "y IZJZll have the rifrht t,^ General Assembly should ria\e the right to offer amendments to the bill after its return but CeOieOafT^ the Executive the General Assemb y has merely the right and power to accent the amendmen of the Executive? I, t?kes away from the SLral Assembly is left nout that power to originate amendments to the bill but their &ive.“ amendment of the K of but one rule by which legislators should be guided and that is the settled rule of their oL conviSons f fh. T-K" questions. If the fathers were w^se’ ^ budded wisely when they constructed the three depart¬ ments and placed the walls high between them, it would be unwise m us to seek to tear down or lower those walls today. This is a blfnr^^ foreign to anything we have known e clL^rly esLblished "?«ssity and the justice of it should DC Clearly established to the mind of each member nf fVu'o venfton before he should be willing to recocts’voL‘^“ favor' r. true that the Governor now has the power to call into his office the proposer of a bill and tell him in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 631 plain words unless he amends the bill in such a way the bill will not be approved, and is not that done and does not this simply allow him to do openly what has occurred in his office many a time. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—1 am willing to admit to the dis¬ tinguished gentleman from Macon that it has been done in the past and if, as he says, the Governor has that power now, why give him the additional power to sit upon your floor as a legisla¬ tor? If he has the right now to advise, and certainly he has with the individual members, why increase that power. It has become already more powerful than it should have become in the past, this influence of the Executive over the Law-making Department. That power has been exercised not only in the State but in the Nation until at times it has become almost a scandal. By the very language of this proposition you make your Executive Officer a member of the General Assembly, for it says ‘‘if the Governor’s message proposes amendments w’hich would remove his objections, the House to which it is sent may so amend the bill.” Then he can propose any amendment to your Legislature. He can say “I, the Executive of the State, say to you, the Representatives of the people, you must embody this provision in your law.” All of us know the insidious power of the Executive. Why increase that power? Why go farther and give the Governor more than the power to w^hich the gentleman from Macon refers as now existing in the Governor and so exercised to influence legislation? Why can’t we stand by the provisions of the old Constitution, unless this means to give the Executive additional power and influence in framing the legislation of the State. Mr. President, I have said now more than I contemplated. I have discharged what I conceived to be a plain duty in assailing what seems to me to be the most radical proposition which has yet come before the Convention, and I hope the most extreme that will at any time be submitted to it, and now, as the hour of ad¬ journment draws near, I believe it would be unsafe for any mem¬ ber on this floor to attempt in the little while left to us to write an amendment which would reach the objections I have, I move the recommitment of Section 13 to the Committee with directions to the committee to eliminate from the Section the additional power sought to be bestowed on the Governor. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the delegate from Jefferson to recommit this section to the committee with jurisdictions. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No man yields more readily than I do, when acting in an official capacity, to the orders of his superiors, but here is a matter which this House has not heard discussed. So far, not a member of the committee has discussed 632 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the outline and plan of this section as a whole. The committee is prepared to defend every line of it as written. They think they can give good reasons, abundant ones, which will convince the members and perhaps convince my friend from Jefferson when he hears them. How would this committee be put in possession of the views of the House? Some gentleman says “this thing cannot be understood right now and you go back and try again.” If the Convention advises and orders what to do the committee will do it, but it is sent back with these vague instructions, how can we do anything. MR. LOWE—The reason I made the motion to recommit is that it is the only possible way that we can reach the proposition. I think the committee can better do it and my motion to recommit carried with it instructions to eliminate that feature of the report. MR. JONES—After all, that is simply moving to strike out that part of the report. Let us have the fight on that and of the Convention strikes it out and that leaves the section mutilated then we can determine what to do with the remains but don’t let us have a funeral before the man is dead. Now, it is getting late. This is a very important section and although I dislike very much to take up time I feel it my duty, if the debate is continued, to speak on it much longer than the hour of adjournment. We have a thin house, a great many of the mem¬ bers are away, and, therefore, I move that the House adjourn. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—Mr. President, my motion is be¬ fore the House. THE PRESIDENT—The motion to adjourn has precedence. A vote being taken on the motion, it was carried, and the Con¬ vention adjourned until 12 o’clock Monday. CORRECTIONS In roll call No. 2 on twentieth day on adoption of minority report in lieu of report of Committee on Executive Department fixing Governor’s salary at $5,000, Heflin (Chambers) voted to adopt the minority report, and Heflin (Randolph) voted against the minority report. CONSTITUTIONAI^ GONVENTION. 1901 633 TWENTY-SECOND DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA. Monday, June 17, 1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Murphy, as follows: Most gracious and Almighty Father, we humbly beseech Thee as for the people of this State in general, so especially for their representatives in Convention assembled that Thou wouldst be pleased to prosper all their consultations to the advancement of Thy glory, the good of our land, the safety, honor and welfare of this people, that all things be so ordered and settled by their en¬ deavors upon the best and surest foundations that peace and happiness, truth and justice, religion and piety may be established among us for all generations. Bless especially, we beseech Thee, the labors of this day, that the membership of this Convention may become in Thy hands an instrument of order and of equity. Allay in this hour the distempers of faction and the bitterness of discord; confirm in our hearts, O Father, the wisdom of the unselfish; and renew in simplicity and in truth the spirit of the patriot, that the weakest and the lowliest of our whole people may not be found in harder case than the shorn lambs of the fold to whom Thou wouldst temper the winds of Heaven that the lovers and makers of iniquity may be disposed of power and the that righteous only may be promoted to honor. Be among us, O Lord, our God, evil sustaining and prospering the good, that Thy will may be done here upon the earth, and that those who do it may find a blessing at Thy hands. If any man among us be found in sickness or in trouble, vouch¬ safe the healing and the comfort of Thy spirit. Within the homes of all who serve Thee in this House, whether they be near or far, bring the assurance of Thy love and the knowledge of Thy care. These and all other necessaries for them, for us, and for Thy whole people we humbly ask in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. The roll was called and showed the presence of 114 members. leaves of absence. For to-day—Messrs. Hood, Moody, Cardin, Davis (Etowah). Searcy, Morgan M. Smith, Hodges, Boone, Whiteside, Greer (Cal¬ houn), Henderson, Greer (Perry), White, Waddell. To-day, Tuesday and Wednesday—Mr. Pitts, Mr. Eyster. Saturday and to-day—Mr. Coleman (Walker.) 634 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS To-day and to-morrow—The Secretary, Mr. Julian, Mr. SoIIie • (Dale), Mr. Jackson. MR. BEDDOW—I ask unanimous consent for the introduc¬ tion of a short but important resolution. The consent was given, and Resolution No. 153 was read: Relating to the per diem of members. Whereas, This Convention has now been in session twenty- one working days, and. Whereas, Not a single article of the proposed new Constitu¬ tion has yet been adopted; and. Whereas, At the present rate of progress it will take some months to revise the Constitution, and Whereas, This body will thereby subject itself to the unjust criticism that members are causing delay at the expense of the taxpayers of this State. Therefore be it Resolved, That it is the sense of this Convention that not¬ withstanding the length of time consumed by this Convention in so revising the said Constitution, no per diem be allowed any member in excess of fifty days. MR. BEDDOW—I move suspension of the rules and that we pass this resolution. A vote being taken the Convention refused to suspend the rules. The resolution was then referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask leave to introduce an or¬ dinance. There being no objection, the ordinance was read as follows: Ordinance No. 377, by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) : To amend Section 21, Article IV. of the Constitution of Ala¬ bama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That Section 21 of Article IV. of the Constitution of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows: Article IV. Sec. 21. Every bill shall be read on three different days in each House; and no bill shall become a law unless, on its final passage, it be read at length, and the vote be taken by yeas and nays, the names of the members voting for and against the same entered on the journals. No bill shall be passed unless by the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 635 consent of a majority of all the members elected to such House and the question upon the final passage shall be taken immediately upon the last reading. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. MR. LONG (Walker)—The Advertiser of yesterday has a head-line which reads as follows: “Long Shoots at The Adver¬ tiser; the Walker Delegate Opposed to Free Speech.” Now as a question of personal privilege, Mr. President, that is caused by the resolution introduced by myself on Saturday condemning The Advertiser for an editorial in that paper on the 15th headed “A Discouraging Vote,” and which I considered then and which I still consider was an insult to a two-thirds majority of this Con¬ vention. I want to state I am not, and never have been opposed to free speech, but I am opposed to free slander, let it come from the press, or wherever it comes from, and from that comes this attack upon myself, which I think is unjust and unwarranted by the facts. THE PRESIDENT—The regular order will be the considera¬ tion of the report of the Committee on the Journal. The report was read, stating that the Journal for the twenty- first day was correct, and upon motion the report was adopted. MR. OATES—As there will be no call for the introduction of ordinances, I ask unanimous consent to introduce one. MR. LONG (Walker)—Mr. President I would like to intro¬ duce a resolution. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will recognize the gentleman just so soon as the ordinance by the gentleman from Montgomery is read. The ordinance was read as follows: Ordinance 378, by Mr. Oates: Prescribing the number of Grand Jurors and for the supres- sion of crime. Whereas, in many of the counties of the State, the practice of bribing or unduly influencing Grand Juries to prevent them from finding bills of indictment in particular cases is no longer un¬ known, and Whereas, such things have been done and tend to prostitute that body to the shielding of murderers and criminals instead of bringing them to justice, and whereas, the best interests of the State require the suppression of such conduct and the preserva¬ tion of the Grand Jury as a pure fountain of justice, whose action should ever be in the direction of suppressing crime, preserving life 636 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and property against the lawless, and protecting the innocent and helpless, by bringing the guilty to coding punishment thus com¬ mending to all law-abiding and just people the judicial system of the State. Therefore be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled. Section 1—^That after the ratification of this Constitution, a Grand Jury authorized by law in any of the courts of the State, shall consist of not less than eighteen qualified persons, ten of whom shall be required to concur in order to find a bill of indict¬ ment. Sec. 2—That whenever a felony has been committed within the jurisdiction of any Grand Jury thereafter legally organized, and the same shall fail to find and return into court a bill of in¬ dictment against the perpetrators of such felony at the first term of the court thereafter, the presiding Judge shall have the power and authority to enter upon the docket an order directing the solicitor of such court to proceed by information against any per¬ son or persons who are reasonably suspected of having committed such felony. Referred to the Committee on Judiciary. MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask permission to introduce a reso¬ lution. The leave was granted, and the resolution read as follows: Resolution 154, by Mr, Long of Walker. Whereas, there appears in The Montgomery Advertiser of the 15th inst. an “editorial” under the caption of “A Discouraging Vote,” reflecting seriously upon the honesty of a two-thirds ma¬ jority of this convention. Therefore be it resolved that the said editorial is hereby con¬ demned as unwise and unwarranted. MR. LONG (Walker)—I move a suspension of the rules and that that resolution be put upon its passage. Upon a vote the Convention refused to suspend the rules, and the resolution was referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I ask unanimous consent to be al¬ lowed to introduce an ordinance. Ordinance 379, by Mr. deGraffenreid; An ordinance to be entitled an ordinance to amend Section 7 of Article 1 of the Constitution of the State of Alabama. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 637 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that Section Seven of Article One of the Constitution of the State of Alabama be amended so as to read as follows; That in all criminal prosecutions the accused has a rig;ht to be heard by himself and counsel or either; to amend the nature and cause of the accusation; to have a copy thereof; to be con¬ fronted by the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; to testify, in all cases, in his own behalf, if he elects to do so, and in all prosecutions by in¬ dictment a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the county or district in which the offense was committed; that he shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty or property but by due process of law; and in all prose¬ cutions by indictment the place in the county or district in which the crime was committed shall be stated with such particularity as to enable the defendant to know' specifically the particular criminal act in which he is charged. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. MR. MORRISETTE—I move that the privileges of the floor be extended to the ministers of the gospel who open the Conven¬ tion with prayer. MR. PETTUS—I should like to amend that by adding the name of a distinguished ex-member of the Legislature, who is present in the city. Judge J. J. Arnold of Calhoun. THE PRESIDENT—The question is first on the motion to suspend. A vote being taken, the rules were suspended. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Monroe, that the ministers of the gospel, who have generously served the Convention in opening the proceed¬ ings with prayer, be accorded the privileges of the floor, and the gentleman from Limestone moves to amend by adding thereto the name of Judge J. J. Arnold. Upon a vote, the amendment was adopted, and upon a fur¬ ther vote the resolution, as amended, prevailed. MR. KYLE—I ask unanimous consent to introduce an or¬ dinance. Ordinance No. 380, by Mr. Kyle: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention as¬ sembled, That Article XIV, on banks and banking, be so amend¬ ed as to require the General Assembly, at its first session after the adoption of the amended Constitution, to enact such laws as 638 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS will require all State or private banks doinpf business in this State or that may be hereafter organized under the Constitution and laws of the State, and engage in the business of banking, and the first of October each year thereafter, a report of their standing, showing: Amount of capital stock actually paid in. Amount of deposits held by the bank. Amount of loans and discounts, as well as amounts of all liabilities and assets at the dates of such reports. And to require that such reports be published for thirty days after the first of April and the first of October of each year in a newspaper published in the county in which the bank is located. Such reports to be certified to by the President or Cashier of the bank making the report, before a notary or any other officer au¬ thorized to administer an oath. And to further provide that any President or Cashier of any private or State bank who makes a fraudulent report of the stand¬ ing of any bank, or who converts to his own use any of the assets of any State or private bank in this State, without authority of law, shall be guilty of a felony, and on conviction, shall be im¬ prisoned in the penitentiary not less than three nor more thgn ten years, at the discretion of the court trying the case. Referred to Committee on Banks and Banking. MR. BLACKWELL—I desire to introduce a petition. The petition was read as follows: State of Alabama, Morgan County.—Court of County Commis¬ sioners. Decatur, Ala., June IS, 1901. To the Honorable Constitutional Convention, Montgomery, Ala.: The undersigned. Commissioners’ Court of Morgan County, Alabama, respectfully ask and request your honorable body not to reduce the present rate of one-half of one per cent, allowed for special taxes, and we respectfully ask that the Commissioners’ Courts be allowed this special tax for the building and repairing the court houses, jails and public bridges and public roads of the several counties in this State. The people of our county are not asking any reduction in this special rate of taxation, but, on the contrary are clamoring for the privilege of paying a special tax for the improvement of our pub¬ lic roads. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 639 Our county is traversed by many streams which require bridges to accommodate the traveling public. One-fourth of one per cent will now permit us to keep these bridges and our court house and jail in proper repair. We, therefore, ask and urge that you allow the present rate of one-half of one per cent of taxation for these special purposes to remain as it is, with the words “public roads” added thereto. Very respectfully, Wm. E. Skeggs, A. F. Murray, S. P. Lovelady, M. W. Ratliff, S. R. Garrison. Referred to Committee on Taxation. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—On behalf of the Rules Committee, I desire to report favorably resolution No. 150, and move its adoption. Resolution 150 was read as follows: Resolved that the report of the Committee on Taxation be set for a continuing special order of the Convention to be taken up and considered by sections immediately after the conclusion of the existing special order. On motion the resolution was adopted. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—On behalf of the Rules Committee I desire to offer a resolution amending Rule Eleven so as to en¬ able members of committees, while their reports are under dis¬ cussion, to sit together. The resolution was read as follows: No. 155, with favorable report from the Rules Committee: Resolved that Rule Eleven be amended so as to read as follows: Rule 11—When any delegate is about to speak or deliver any matter to the Convention he shall rise from his seat and respect¬ fully address himself to the President; provided that while the re¬ port of any committee is under consideration the members of the committee may exchange seats with other members of the Con¬ vention. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I move the adoption of the resolu- iton. The resolution was upon a vote of the Convention adopted. 640 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SMITH (Mobile)—^On behalf of the Rules Committee I desire to report a substitute for resolution No. 146, and move its adoption, and in this connection I desire to say that the con¬ dition of the several committees is such as to make it almost ab¬ solutely necessary. THE PRESIDENT — Will the gentleman wait until the resolution is read and the Convention will be better able to under¬ stand the explanation. Resolution 146, with substitute: Resolved that^ after next Monday this convention shall meet regularly at 10 o clock m the morning and shall remain in session from that time untd 1 o clock p m. when a recess shall be taken at 3 p. m. and the Convention shall remain in session until 5 p. m. when the Convention shall stand adjourned until 10 a. m. of the succeeding day. Substitute for the resolution, reported by the Committee on Rules: Resolved that after the passage of this resolution this Con¬ vention shall meet regularly each day at 10 o’clock in the morn¬ ing and shall remain in session from that time until 1 o clock p. m when a recess shall be taken until 3 p. m. and the Convention shall remain in session until 5 p. m. when the Convention shall stand adjourned until 10 a. m. of the succeeding day. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I move that the resolution be laid on the table until Thursday next, and from 6ay to day there¬ after, until taken up for consideration by the Convention, and the reason for that is the fact that the Suffrage Committee and sev¬ eral of the other committees are very much engaged in their work, and it would render it almost impossible for them to make their reports in any reasonable time, if the sessions are prolonged im¬ mediately. It is hoped by Thursday they may be in a position to consent to lengthening the session, but if not, the resolution may be further deferred. The motion to lay the resolution on the table until Thursday and from day to day thereafter until taken up by the Convention was carried. MR. DENT—In order to test the sentiment of the Conven¬ tion as to evening sessions, I send up a resolution. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Barbour asks unanimous consent to introduce a resolution. The Chair hears no objection and the Clerk will read the resolution. No. 156, by Mr. Dent: Resolved that when this Convention adjourn, it adjourn to meet again at 3 o’clock p. m. today. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 641 THE PRESIDENT—Without a suspension of the rules the resolution would be referred to the Committee on Rules. The Chair understands that the gentleman desires to take the sense of the Convention? MR. DENT—Yes. THE PRESIDENT — It would be necessary to move a suspension of the rules. MR. DENT—I move a suspension of the rules and that the resolution be placed upon its passage. Upon a vote being taken the Convention refused to suspend the rules, and the resolution was referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale) — I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolution and for its reference to a committee. The consent was given and the resolution read as follows: Resolved that on account of the limited capacity of the Con¬ vention Hall, hereafter the privileges of the floor shall not be ex¬ tended to any person, except by the unanimous vote of the Con¬ vention. MR. SAMFORD—I move a suspension of the rules, for the purpose of putting that resolution on its immediate passage. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I second the motion. By a vote of sixty-four ayes to twenty-nine noes, the rules were suspended. MR. BURNS—I rise to a point of information. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of inquiry. MR. BURNS—Do we understand that if some distinguished gentleman were to pass before the door, that one hundred and fifty-four members could not invite him to the courtesies of this floor? THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair that is the meaning of the resolution. A division was called for and by a vote of seventy ayes to nineteen noes the resolution was adopted. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a resolution. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—I wish to state hereafter I shall object but not now. XiFfldAL PROCEEDINGS 6« Resolttljon No; 158, by Mr. Graham (Talladeg^a): Resoilved, That the tiianks of this Gonvention are hereby ten¬ dered to the Western Railway of Alabama for courtesies recently extended on die occasion of the funeral of Gov. W. J. Samford to members of this Convention,throujfh Gen. Geo. P. Harrison; also, to Superintendent J. C. Clarke of the "Mobile and Ohio Railroad for courtesies recently extended to a special Committee of this Convention. Rules suspended and resolution adopted. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega) — I move a suspension of the rules to put that resolution upon its passage. Ui»n a vote the Convention suspended the rules and the resolution was adopted. MR. WIIvLETT—I move that we adjourn. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I rise to a question of personal privilege. MR. WILLETT—I withdraw the motion for that purpose. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — It will be remembered, Mr. President, the other day there was a newspaper article which caused some heat. When my friend from Walker moved to sus¬ pend the rules, I objected, and stated that it was only a news¬ paper article he wished to bring before this body. I have been informed that some of the members of the Convention have been told that my reasons for thus objecting were that I was either the author or inspirer of this article. Now I differ with a great many members as to the effect or propriety of that editorial; but that is not germain to the point I wish to make. That article it happened was somewhat complimentary to some remarks made by myself on that occasion. I think I can say, what every man who has taken enough interest in me to look after my customs and habits knows full well, that never in my life have I written an}idhing which reflected on anybody unless I signed my name to it. That has been my habit all my life. (Applause). I had never seen or heard of the editorial until it was laid upon my desk. I had no conference, or talk with any human being about it, and did not know it would be written. My reason for object¬ ing was that I think the press, if they choose, have the right to say that we are a set of noodles or bumpkins, or anything else; and if they state it truly, our remonstrance will do no good. On the other hand, if their criticisms are not well founded, the people will take care of them. Resolutions of censure are worthless, and not becoming a great assembly like this. These were my reasons for objecting to the resolution. CONSTITUTIQNAL CONVENTION, 1901 643 THE PRESIDENT—The regular order will be the considera¬ tion of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. MR. WILLETT—I renew my motion to adjourn. Upon a vote the motion was lost. THE PRESIDENT—The regular order is the consideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. The question is upon the motion made by the gentleman from Jefferson to refer Section 13 back to the Committee on Executive Department, with instructions to eliminate the feature discussed by him in his arguments on Saturday, which is that provision which confers upon the Governor the right to suggest amend¬ ments. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. deGRAFFENREID—The gentleman’s motion was out of order. The House had before it for consideration the question as to whether or not it would adopt an amendment which was of¬ fered by me to Section 13, and while that matter was pending bffore the House, the gentleman from Jefferson made a motion to recommit, which puts two motions before this body for con¬ sideration. For that reason I thought that the gentleman was out of order but I did not raise the point of order because the gen¬ tleman discussed a question with which I was somewhat in sym¬ pathy, and I thought the House would like to hear him on the subject, but we have heard him and now I think he is out of or¬ der, and that the question now before the House is whether or not the amendment offered by me shall or shall not be adopted. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair— MR. LOWE (Jefferson) — Before the Chair announces the opinion, my motion was— THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is going to rule in favor of the gentleman. MR. LOWE—Very well, but for information I desire to say that my motion was to recommit the Section and the pending amendments. . \ THE PRESIDENT—That was the motion, and it appears in the report. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Then I ask the gentleman, as the Chair is going to rule in his favor, to allow me to offer an amend- 644 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ment so that it can be referred together with the Section and the amendments already pending. MR. LOWE—I am perfectly willing for that. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman withdraw tempo¬ rarily? MR. LOWE—No, sir. I do not care to withdraw my motion, but I am willing, by unanimous consent, for the amendment to be offered and read so as to go to the Committee. THE PRESIDENT — The delegate from Hale desires, by unanimous consent, to offer an amendment. Is there any objec¬ tion? There was none and the amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 13 by striking from the Section all after “if any bill” in the eighteenth line thereof, and insert in lieu thereof the following: ‘Every bill which shall have passed both Houses of the General Assembly shall be presented to the Governor. If he approves he shall sign it, but if not, he shall return it to that House in which it shall have originated which shall enter the ob¬ jections at large upon the journal and the House to which the bill shall be returned shall proceed to reconsider it. If, after such reconsideration, a majority of the whole number elected to that House shall vote for the passage of such bill, it shall be sent with objections to the other House, by which it shall likewise be re¬ considered, and if approved by a majority of the whole number elected to that House, it shall be a law, but in such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the members voting for or against the bill shall be en¬ tered upon the journals of each House respectively.” MR. deGRAFFENREID—I desire to state that the effect of that amendment is simply to strike from Section 13 the power of the Governor to propose any amendment to any bill which comes to him for signature. In other words, it leaves the law just as it now exists, with one exception, and that is, that the Governor shall have the power, within ten days after the adjourn¬ ment of the Legislature, to approve a bill if it comes into his hands within five days before the adjournment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I regret, Mr. President, that it falls to my lot, as chairman of the committee, to appear so often upon the floor of the House, but it is a matter of duty and I shall proceed to discuss, briefly, the motion to recommit. This House has not voted upon a single one of the amend¬ ments, and, if the section were recommitted, the committee would be without the aid or advice of the House on any of the matters CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 645 covered by the amendments. Therefore, it seems to me, a recom¬ mittal at this stage would not aid in a solution of this question. Besides, if I recollect the amendments aright, if the portions of the ordinance to which these amendments relate were stricken out, the ordinance would still be perfect, and there would be no need to recommit. As I stated on Saturday, the committee is the servant of this House, and is perfectly willing to have the House send its work back; but it is due to the House and to the committee, if the House sends the work back that it send it with directions what to do, to strike out this or that, or amend this or that, and not send it back to us without advice or directions of any sort. MR. LOWE—Will the gentleman pardon me for a moment? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. MR. LOWE—Does not the gentleman understand that my motion carries with it instructions to strike from Section 13 the obnoxious clause to which I addressed myself? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Then I would suggest to my friend from Jefferson if he would be kind enough to change his motion to recommit to a motion to strike out that part of this section, the result would be attained. MR. LOWE—The reason I do not care to do that is because this is a section which requires to be very carefully written, and I do not believe it is safe in making a Constitution, working as we are, with the ends for which we are working, to amend by piecemeal upon the floor. It seems to me the best procedure would be to recommit, and, therefore, my motion did prry with it instructions to the committee to eliminate one objectionable feature from Section 13, simply that the committee might care¬ fully re-write that section. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — I quite understand the pur¬ pose of my friend from Jefferson, and I quite agree with him that we should not be hasty in passing upon important sections; but I think he loses sight of the fact that if that part of the section to which his amendment is directed were stricken out, the ordi¬ nance would still be complete in itself and, as we are going to pass upon this ordinance, as it is finally amended, and as it is go¬ ing before the Committee on Harmony, I do not think we take any risk by having a vote on tfifese questions now; and then, if the ordinance is left in an incomplete or an improper shape, to recommit to the committee. MR. LOWE—If the gentleman will pardon me— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. 646 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR, LOWE—I am frank to say I would be utterly unable to draft an amendment to strike out the part I want stricken out that would leave the Section harmonious, it mi^ht or it mi^ht not. It seems to me, it would take time to eliminate the various phrases running all through the ordinance. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Will my friend permit me one suggestion: Let us not cross the bridge before getting to it. Sup¬ pose the House does not strike out the things which are objec¬ tionable to you? MR. LOWE—Then my motion is lost. It is in the body of my motion that the committee be instructed to eliminate. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—That is the reason I suggest that a direct vote on that proposition would be better. Mr. President, I see it lacks only four minutes of adjourning time, and I cannot accomplish anything by occupying the floor four minutes, and I move that the Convention adjourn. MR. PILLANS—Is it in order to name the hour to which we shall adjourn? THE PRESIDENT—Under the rules, when we adjourn we will adjourn until tomorrow morning at 10. MR. PILLANS—I think we should work twice a day. THE PRESIDENT — The chair would suggest that that question was submitted to the Committee on Rules and they have reported on the matter. If the gentleman desires, he can move to suspend the rules. MR. PILLANS—Then I move to suspend the rules in order that I may amend the motion of the delegate from Montgomery, that we adjourn until 3 o’clock. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman move to suspend the rules? MR. PILLANS—Yes, sir. MR. OATES—I hope the delegate from Mobile will not in¬ sist on that motion, because there are committees engaged on re¬ ports that it is absolutely necessary to get in as soon as possible, and one or two more afternoons will permit us to finish. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Mobile in¬ sist on his motion? MR. PILLANS—I will not after that statement of the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move that the rules be sus¬ pended and that the House remain in session until 2 o’clock. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 647 A vote beinpf taken, the House refused to suspend the rules, and, after the announcement of various committee meeting’s, the Convention adjourned. TWENTY-THIRD DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Tuesday, June 18, 1901. The Convention met persuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Murphy as follows: O God, King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, God of our Fath¬ ers’ fathers and of our children’s children, guard we pray Thee, at our hands, the welfare of this State and people. Keep the land, which Thou hast given us by the blood of heroes from the past, and which, through our hearts and deeds. Thou hast given unto the days hereafter. Help us to be pure in purpose, wise in counsel, diligent in service. Keep Thou the way of our hearts, guard Thou the door of our lips. Drive far from us all hatred, pride, and prejudice, and whatsoever else may hinder us from godly union and concord, that the peace of brethren may temper the counsels of truth, and that the bonds of a common patriotism may knit the fab of our Constitution. Bless those of us who are here today; and bless the absent. Wherever sickness or death or sorrow fall, bring there the spirit of renewal, and the vision of the pure in heart. Within the homes of all who serve Thee in this house, whether they be near or far, bring the assurance of Thy love and the knowledge of Thy care. Abide with us, sustain us, guide us! We ask it in the Christ’s name. Amen. The roll was called and showed the presence of 134 delegates. The report of the Committee on Journal that the journal for the twenty-second day was correct was read and no motion adopt¬ ed. MR. GRAHAM — I ask unanimous consent to introduce a short resolution to be referred. The resolution was read as follows: Resolved, That it is the sense of this convention that the present $510,000 and the special one mill tax which approximates $250,000 for public schools shall not be reduced or repealed by this convention either directly or indirectly. 648 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Referred to Committee on Education. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I ask unanimous consent to introduce an ordinance. Ordinance 381 by Mr. Williams of (Marengo) by request. Whereas, the imprisonment in the penitentiary of certain classes of our people makes of them among their own people more a hero than the convict. Therefore, be it ordained by the people of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, that the legislature shall at its first session hereafter, establish a whipping post. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Ordinance 382 by Mr. Pettus; Be it ordained by the people of Alabama no white person shall intermarry with any negro or descendant of a negro to the third generation inclusive, nor shall any negro or the descendant of any negro to the third generation inclusive intermarry with any white person. It shall be the duty of the legislature to enforce this section by appropriate legislation, provided that the penalty for the violation of this section shall be not less than three years in the penitentiary. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. MR. BROOKS—I move a suspension of the rules in order that I may offer a resolution expressing the sense of the conven¬ tion against the adopting of an ordinance providing for female suffrage. A vote being taken the house refused to suspend the rules. MR. BROWNE—I desire to introduce an ordinance and ask unanimous consent. MR. WADDELL—I call for the regular order. THE PRESIDENT—Objection is made. MR. BROWNE—The resolution ought to go along with other resolutions introduced and referred to the Committee on Education, and I ask the gentleman to withdraw objection in or¬ der that my resolution may go along with the other resolutions. MR. WADDELL—I withdraw for that. The ordinance was read as follows: Ordinance 383, by Mr. Browne: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 649 Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled that Section of Article XIII of the Constitution be amended to read as follows (relates to schools): Sec. 5. The income arising from the sixteenth section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund, until it is called for by the United States Government, and the funds—enumerated in Section 3 and 4 of this article, with such other moneys, to be not less than $550,- 000 per annum, as the General Assembly may provide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools, and in addition thereto, there shall be levied and collected an annual special tax of one mill one each one hun¬ dred dollars of taxable property within the State, for the use of such schools, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase, from time to time, the public school fund, as may be necessary and the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State will admit. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. LONG—Mr. President, no. one more than myself re¬ grets that I have again to ask the indulgence of this convention in rising to a question of personal privilege. In The Advertiser of this morning in speaking about my remarks, there is again an insulting insinuation as to myself which I consider uncalled for. It is certainly unwarranted by the facts and as an honest man and as a delegate in this convention I am forced to ask the indulgence of the convention while I explain. I ask the clerk to read the editorial headed “Remarkable Foresight” as part of my remarks. The editorial was read as follows; REMARKABLE FORESIGHT It will be recalled by readers of The Advertiser that early in the session of the Convention, when it was decided to have a steno¬ graphic report, there was strong opposition to it. One of the leaders in that opposition was the Hon. Tom Long of Walker County. In the light of his course in the last few days, it will be interesting to recall some of his reasons for objecting to the em¬ ployment of an official stenographer. We quote some of his words taken from the official record: “I do not believe we should have a record of what we say.” “I can see no good reason why we should have reports of everything that is said in this Convention.” “I do not think we should have a political record there in black and white that some of the delegates will have to be dodg¬ ing for twenty years to come.” 650 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The public at the time may not have understand fully Mr. Long’s attitude in this matter, but a flood of light seems to have been let in upon his zeal in the last few days. Could he have realized in advance how many things he was liable to say that would not read well in print? Did he have a foreboding of the way the Convention was going to disregard his views and table his resolutions? Could he have foreseen that he was going to make a record in black and white that would not be calculated to make his constituents regard him as a Solomon hereafter? Is it not likely that he had a sort of a presentment of some necessity for ^Modging for twenty years to come ?” No man has ever had greater foresight from his individual standpoint than Mr. Long. The member of a Constitutional Con¬ vention who leads a forlorn fight on the freedom of the press at this late day in the American Republic, was wise in opposing a record of ‘‘everything that is said.” The probabilities are that it will require a great deal of dodging to get around it in the future. MR. LONG (Walker)—No, Mr. President, it seems that The Advertiser has brought in a new deck of cards and proposes to hold me personally responsible, or publicly insult me because I saw fit upon this floor to oppose the employment of a stenographer or stenographers, for a stenographic report of the proceedings of this Convention. I did it because I thought it was unwise for this Convention to pay $70 per day to employ stenographers to report to the people of Alabama what we had to say, which I considered then was not worth a dime, and which I still consider is not worth it. So far as being a demagogue or dodging an issue, I have never dodged an issue in my life. My constituents have never yet called me a demagogue, and have never yet failed to honor me politically whenever I saw fit to offer for office in my county. I have never dodged a Democratic ticket. I have never dodged an issue of the Democratic party. I have never by word or act insulted, grossly insulted, people, in the press or otherwise, that they would have to use physical violence in order to rebuke me. Now, so far as The Advertiser is concerned, if they would state the plain truth, I would care no more for what they say that I would for a fice dog barking on one of the hilltops in North Alabama, but they do not state the facts when they say that my resolutions have been defeated in this Convention. The resolu¬ tion of rebuke against The Advertiser has never been voted on by this Convention. A majority vote upon that was denied by an aye and no vote, and the Committee on Rules will report this fact, as they should do, even if they report the resolution without recommendation. I am perfectly willing to abide the decision of the majority of this Convention, let it be what it may. I am not like many of the delegates here, that have gotten so used to slanders that I can dodge my head under the desk and say it was CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 651 not intended for me. I do say that it was an insult to a majority and over two-thirds majority of this Convention when the offi¬ cial organ of this Convention, the official organ itself should desig¬ nate by a vote upon a question, and should hold up members to task and call them timid and afraid to go on record by an aye and no vote. I think it was an insult to the intelligence of this Conven¬ tion, but I could have dodged that issue, had I been so disposed, because I was only one of ^ to which it referred, and that would not have been a question of personal privilege. Mr. President, if it had been hurled at the Convention as a whole, but it was hurled at a two-thirds majority of this convention, and they were desig¬ nated by the ayes and noes in that same paper, and I consider it then, and still consider it a personal privilege; that it was a per¬ sonal insult, and that the members upon this floor were insulted, and grossly insulted. I owe no apology to The Advertiser, nor to any one else, for my official action. I have a right to oppose the big six, or the little six, in this Convention. I have a right to vote as the dictates of my conscience direct, and it is an insult, and a gross insult, for one of these little sap-headed editors, with a head on him like a two by five watermelon, to get up in a back room over a store, or over some establishment, and come out with a dollar and a quarter’s worth of type and a dime’s worth of blacking and say “we, the people, criticise your action.” Now, Mr. President, I am perfectly willing to let the matter go, but until an aye and no vote has been taken upon this floor on that resolution, I claim the right to ask and I give notice now, that I shall ask the Committee on Rules to report that resolution of mine, whether they do so without recommendation, or under an adverse or favorable report. I have never yet seen fit before to be abused in the public print, and let them go back and charge me with infidelity and treason, and with malice and with assum¬ ing the garb of a demagogue, by dodging issues. It is more than many members on this floor can say, because numbers of them have come to me and said: “Long, you are right, it was an in¬ sult, but we are afraid of The Advertiser.” I am not afraid of any paper, nor class of papers. Neither am I afraid of anything, except my own conscience, and when my conscience tells me that I am right, I gladly go on record, though every man in Alabama is opposed to it. Mr. President, those are the only remarks that I desire to make. I hope it will not be necessary for me to again refer to this matter. I am perfectly willing to let The Advertiser editorial be read as the bill of indictment, and without remarks by the big six or the little six, let the Convention then and there vote upon it, that we may have an honest expression of the majority of the Convention, which is the only way that it can be obtained. 652 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The following leaves of absence for today were granted. Messrs. Malone, Sollie, Renfroe. MR. REESE—I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolution. Objection was made. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll of Dele¬ gates for the introduction of ordinances, etc. MR BLACKWELL—I am requested by a prominent colored man of my town to introduce this petition. The petition was read as follows: Mr. President and Members of the Alabama Constitutional Convention: Realizing the fact that no member of the negro race is represented in your august body to speak one word for us, we must appeal to you in this manner. Being Southern born, of ex-slaves, Southern raised, within the city where you are now in session, and having spent my energies among my people in this State for thirty years, I represent the product of Alabama negro manhood. I speak the sentiments of thousands of my race whose timidity locks their mouths. We have made many errors since emancipation. We were weaker than now, and prone to mistakes, but, gentlemen, could you have looked for perfection in a race of ignorant liberated people. No matter how ig¬ norant we were thirty years ago, and no matter how intelligent we become one hundred years from now, yet the fact remains the same—that then, now and henceforth we realize that the negro’s best friend is the Southern white man. You have proven your genuine friendship to us all along. You have given us work at any trade at which we were proficient. You have given us good schools, gone into your own pocket to educate us. You have given us counsel when we were in need of advice, for all of which we are grateful, and we hope we have proven the same to you. Do not expect more of us than of any other race at the same stage of development. We know that the salvation of the negro is in your hands. You can make us industrious, contented, loyal and useful citizens, or you can make us shift¬ less, discontented and good-for-nothing. You are framing a constitution for future government of generations of negroes of Alabama, as well as of other races. We are interested, because we are lawabiding and must live up to your new constitution or get out. Say to us, forsooth, that you are black, that your hair is kinky or features Hamitic, or say that, for¬ sooth, some negro blood is in your veins, you cannot enjoy the franchise in Alabama, and you at once relegate us to the ranks of a brute. Wc would have not one incentive to go forward. You would cripple an already weak race. We are among you, and satisfied. It was not of our own free will that we are here. Like other nations of the far East, we did not migrate here and force ourselves upon you. Had we done so it might be fair and conservative that you say to us, *‘Get out,’' or drive us out by discrimina- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 653 tive methods that were basely unjust. But. gentlemen, we were snatch^ from our motherland, heathens. By the providence of God we were brought here, and for three hundred years toiled for you as your slaves. American slavery, though wrong, was a blessing to us. In its school of three hundred years we learned trades, language, customs and the re- lieion of Jesus Christ. There is a just God who guards the destiny of na¬ tions and in His own time slavery was abolished and we were left among you ignorant of franchise and government with no education or character. Be conservative to us, gentlemen. Do not deal a crushing blow. A blow from you at this critical moment—with no flag except the glorious stars and stripes for which we have bled and died; no friend except you, whose fathers and mothers we have guarded from harm, and you your¬ self whom we have cherished and cared for while the Southern man fought for a Lost Cause—would be as Brutus’s dagger of steel warming its blade in the life-blood of Caesar. The tickle of our hoe has made your lands laugh forth in harvests. Our axe has cleared your forests. We have built your cities Our picks have sunk down into the bowels of the earth and thrown up iron and coal. We emerged from slavery and went at once to work at whatever price you valued our labor. We do not cause ^ny or¬ ganic disturbance by strikes. We are striving to fit ourselves for citizen- sh\p. We petition and implore you to not disturb our content by an un¬ just franchise. If you place an educational qualification that touches a alike we are satisfied. In short, we, though only thirty-five years old, are willing to be weighed in the scale of manhood and measured with a tape of justice. Alabama one of the greatest States of the Union; one upon whom the eyes of the world are turned at present, a State whose alphabetical ar- rLgement stands first of the States of the greatest country of God s cre¬ ation (a country upon whose territory the sun never sets), can not a to disfranchise several hundred thousand of its citizens; can not afford to remove the public educational fund from them. An educated dog is worth a hundred good-for-nothing curs. We do not demand anything of you. We can not demand if we would. We simply entreat you as honest citi¬ zens to frame a consititution that will not disgrace the wisdom of Alabama, that will not cause us to degenerate; that will not cause us discontent, that will not cause us to doubt your friendship which we have cherished for near four hundred years. Frame a constitution that will be a pride of the State—one that we will be proud of, as well as you; one that will bene¬ fit both races. Frame a constitution that will place you at the head ^ t e column of sister States where you belong. Do not drive us into degreda- tion. What incentive would a $10,000,000 property qualification be to us. Don’t drive us from you; we are here and want to remain. God in¬ tended us to be here and He intends us to remain. Had it "ot been so we would have perished long ago. Before the onward tread of Anglo- Saxon civilization races have vanished more rapidly than extinction fro shot and shell or bayonet. The New Zealander, Pacific Islander and American Indian have all gone to their grave; they were not able to with¬ stand the environments of the Nineteenth Century civilization. No race* 654 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS save the American negro, has been able to gaze into the blue eyes of the Anglo-Saxon for centuries and live. God so constructed us of better stamina. We have lived, increased and prospered. Remember, gentlemen, that might is not at all times right. Judge not the whole race by its criminals. All races have them, and the better element of us, as of you. abhor crime and do not wish to be called criminals because we have criminals in our race. The constitution that you frame shall live as an everlasting monument, not of stone or brass, nor Egyptian, to crumble and decay under the chemi¬ cal changes of time, but shall stand out prominent above all other Ala¬ bama documents after death and the grave have claimed you. It shall live on after God has called you to rest. Inborn generations of negroes and whites shall look up to it after your flesh has been devoured by the earth-worm, your bones bleached in the tomb, and your soul given account for your earthly transit. Whether this monument will be one of honor or disgrace to the name of our fair State, to its citizens, both black and white, and to you, will depend upon your election. Respectfully, Willis E. Sterrs, M. D., Decatur, Alabama. MR. BURNS—(During the reading)—I rise for inforrnation. With all due respect to the gentleman from Morgan, I would like for him to inform the House how much longer that article is. MR. BLACKWELL—I will inform the gentleman from Dal¬ las that I am not responsible for its length. THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman from Morgan in¬ form the gentleman from Dallas? MR. BLACKWELL— There is one line more. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I move that that petition be not re¬ corded as a part of the official proceedings of this Convention. MR JONES (Montgomery)—I thiiik that the petition is long and rambling, but the right of petition is a very sacred right, and these people have not a representative on the floor of this Convention. I think it would be a bad precedent after allowing a communication, which is in the nature of a petition, to be read, not allow it to go upon our records, and therefore I hope that the mo¬ tion will not prevail. MR. HOWELL—I move to lay the motion on the table, Mr. .President. MR. REESE—I rise to a point of order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 655 MR. GREER—On that motion to table I call for the ayes and noes. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Dallas rises to a point of order, and the gentleman will states the point of order. MR. REESE—^The motion is out of order in the absence of a suspension of the rules. It ought to go to the Committee ou Rules. The motion by the gentleman that it be excluded from the record should be referred to the Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the peti¬ tion would be printed in the official proceedings of this body, whether referred or not referred; consequently the motion of the gentleman to exclude it from the official proceedings would be jn order. The Chair will overrule the point of order. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cle¬ burne, to lay upon the table the motion of the gentleman from Calhoun, to exclude this paper from the official proceedings of the Convention. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I call for the ayes and noes up¬ on that. THE PRESIDENT—And the question is shall the call be sustained. Twenty-six members rose, and the call was not sustained. A division was called for, and by a vote of 81 ayes to 18 noes, the motion was laid upon the table. MR. HOWELL—This Convention can very well afford to be be courteous to every citizen of the State— MR. GREER—I rise to a point of order. There is nothing before the Convention. MR. HOWELL—I got up, sir, to move that the communi¬ cation be referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the point of order was well taken, but the gentleman states the object of his rising. MR. GREER—I withdraw the point, since the gentleman states the object of his rising. THE PRESIDENT—The motion is that it be referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. HOWELL—I desire to say we can very well afford to be courteous to every citizen, black or white, and as has been so. well said by the gentleman from Montgomery, the right of pe- m OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tition is a very sacred right, and ought not by this Convention or any other body, Legislative or otherwise, to be treated with disrespect or want of courtesy. The petition was referred to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. BROWNE—I have a resolution. Resolution No. 160—Resolved, That that sympathy of this Convention be and the same is hereby extended to its worthy sec¬ retary, Frank N. Julian, in his sorrow and bereavement, m the death of his brother, W^illiam Julian. Mr. Reese endeavored to secure recognition. MR. BROWNE—I yield to the gentleman from Dallas. MR. REESE—I move a suspension of the rules for the pur¬ pose of putting the resolution upon its immediate passage, and I ask unanimous consent. There being no objection, the rules were suspended, and by a unanimous vote the resolution was adopted. Resolution No. 161, by Mr. Burns (Dallas). Resolved, That it is the sense of this Convention that what should not be done directly, should not be done indirectly, and after the rules have been suspended for any special purpose, amendments should not be in order. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 162, by Mr. Burns (Dallas) : Resolved. That whenever a delegate precedes his motion to table with a speech, or at the close of a speech calls for the pre¬ vious question, he shall be declared out of order. Referred to the Committee, on Rules. Resolution No. 163, by Mr. Burns; Resolved That it is the sense of this Conventiqn that each and every officials of each and every district, municipality, county, circuit, division, from township trustees to chancellors, shall be elected by the qualified electors thereof, and that all State officers, including Railroad Commissioners and Convict Inspectors. '' Referred to Committee on Executive Department. i MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I have a resolution. Resolution No. 164: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 657 Be it resolved. That in the future petitions, memorials, etc., containing more than 100 words be referred without reading to the proper committees, and printed in the stenographic report. Referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. CASE—I have a petitidn which I introduce by request. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—Will a motion to suspend the rules be in order? THE PRESIDENT—A motion will be in order. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I move that the rules be suspended in order that the resolution I offered in regard to memorials and petitions may be put upon its passage. Much time is being consumed in this manner and it seems hke the pe titions and memorials increase daily, and the length of them also increases, and it costs about $7 a minute to run this convention, and we might save a little time on that line, and have a little more time for speech making perhaps. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will examine-the rule. The about to call the attention of the convention to the fact that the rule in reference to ordinances and resolution does not extend to petitions, as far as the recollection of the Chair goes. MR CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I was not aware of that Mr. President, and if that be the case I withdraw my resolution with the consent of the convention. THE PRESIDENT —The Chair will exarnine the rule. The Chair calls attention to rule forty-seven, which does not seem to refer to petitions. The rule does not require that petitions should be read at length unless the convention so desires it, and the Chair is inclined to rule that when a petition is presented, unless a motion is made that it be read, the secretary will not be directed to read it. A petition formally presented would be filed, and printed in the proceedings of the convention, but unless there is a motion that it be read before the convention, and referred to a committee, the Chair will direct the secretary not to do so. Does the Chair hear any motion with reference to the petition now offered. MR REESE—I move that the President examine the paper and that it be referred to the proper committee and that it be printed in the proceedings. MR. CASE—I move that the petition be read. The motion was carried, and the petition read as follows: Petition 3, by Mr. Case: 658 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Collinsville, Ala., June 13, 1901. To the Alabama Constitutional Convention, Montgomery, Ala¬ bama : Whereas under national interstate laws large trusts have and are being formed all over the country, with almost unlimited capital, and. Whereas the trust companies form without the State of Ala¬ bama commonly known as department stores, without contribut¬ ing one cent in revenues towards the payment of the expenses of maintaining and supporting our State Government either in privi¬ lege or advalorem taxes, and flooding the State with circulars, catalogues and agents, plying their trade, advertising their goods and supplying the consumers with many articles, same being ac¬ tually delivered by the said agents and whereas the president merchants of this State are required to pay taxes before they can sell their goods, now therefore in consideration of the premises your petitioners respectfully pray that the delegates to the said Constitutional Convention of the State of Alabama examine into the merits of this momentus question to the end that some clause may be ingrafted in our State constitution, by which these non¬ resident trusts and department stores may be reached, and re¬ quired to pay their prorata share of our State taxes, or upon their failure or refusal to do so, that they may be denied the privilege of delivering their goods, wares, and merchandise in the State of Alabama. Halls Dry Goods Co., George W. Roberts. B, A. Nowlin, Pyron & Company, M. G. A. Nicholson, Nicholson Drug Co., H. P. McWharter, R. A. Burt, B. Keinan, R. E. Roberts. Charles Roberts & Co., George W. Keener, R. S. Williams & Co., H. R. Jordan & Sons, C. C. Jordan, W. A. Wilburns Co., J. E. Gibson, R. H. Smith. Referred to Committee on Taxation. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 659 Ordinance 384, ])y Mr. Cofer : An ordinance to he entitled an ordinance to amend Section 25, of Article VI of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con- vention asseml)led, that Section 25 of Article V'l of the Consti¬ tution be amended so as to read as follows: Sec. 25. A solicitor of each judicial circuit of the State of Alabama shall l)e elected by the qualified voters of said circuits, who sliall be learned in the law, and who shall at the time of his election and during his continuance in office, reside in the circuit for which he is elected and whose term of office shall be for four years. Provided that said election of said solicitors shall be had at the next general election held after the ratification of this con¬ stitution, and every four years thereafter. Provided further, That the General Assembly may fix and regulate the salary, or fees, of said solicitors. Provided all fees Avhich may be by law taxed as solicitors fees against defendants on convictions secured by a solicitor who is paid a salary by the State belong to the State, and when collect¬ ed must be paid into the State Treasury. Provided further, Tliat the salary of said solicitor each shall not be fixed at a greater sum than $2,000 per annum, and pro¬ vided further that in no event shall the salary of said solicitors, exceed the earnings of said solicitors collected as fees, in their respective circuits. Provided further, That in the event said solicitors shall at any time fail to attend any term or day of term; they are required by law to attend, they shall bo required to furnish; or provide for the attendance of a deputy solicitor, and compensate him for his services, atid all fees collected on account of the sei vices ren¬ dered by said deputy on convictions shall be collected and paid into the State 'freasur}" as the lees of solicitors are collected and paid into the treasury. Referred to Judiciary Committee. Ordinance No. 385, by Mr. Davis (l\t(>\\ah). lk‘ it ordained that Section 7 of Article XI. be amended by adding the following: And provided further, that this Section shall not applv to the town of Attalla, wdiich town may levy and collect a tax not o exceed three tenths of 1 per centum m addition to the tax ot one-half of 1 per centum now allowed to be levied and collected, 660 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS such special tax to be applied exclusively to the payment of in¬ terest on bonds of the town of Attalla heretofore issued in pur¬ suance of a law and for a sinking fund to pay the principal of said bonds. Such special tax to be levied and collected in the same mode and manner as taxes are now levied and collected by the town of Attalla. Provided: That this authority to levy and collect such special tax shall not go into effect and become operative until the fund¬ ing arrangements now pending between the town of Attalla and the holders of its bonds, have been finally concluded. And provided, further, that this authority to levy such special tax shall remain in force and effect until such time when all of the bonds heretofore issued by said town of Attalla and as may upon the consumation of the pending adjustment remain out¬ standing, have been fully paid off and discharged both as to prin¬ cipal and interest, when the authority to levy this special tax above provided shall cease. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. MR. deGRAFFENREID — On yesterday I introduced an amendment to Section 13 of the report of the Committee on Ex¬ ecutive Department. The caption of that amendment reads “amend Section thirteen by striking from the section all after the words ‘if any bill’ in the eighteenth line thereof, and insert the following. By a casual ommission, Mr. President, that amend¬ ment does not do what I stated it did, and I thought it did, and I ask now to be allowed to make an amendment to make it right. Amend Section thirteen by striking from the Section all after the words “to reconsider it” in the fourth line, down to and in¬ cluding the word “respectfully” in the eighteenth line, and insert in lieu thereof the following, and here follows the amendment I offer. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair the amendment offered by the gentleman would be more properly in order when the matter comes up for consideration before the Convention. MR. deGRAFFENREID—That is all right, Mr. President. I did not notice the error until it was called to my attention this morning. MR. OATES—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman will state the point of inquiry. MR. OATES—Several delegates are of the recollection that the entire roll was not called on Saturday, which I believe was the last day on which it was called— CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 <561 THE CLERK—That is true. MR. OATES — And that it is important to begin the call where it left off, and that it should now begin at A as the clerk began today. THE PRESIDENT—The Delegate is entirely correct, and the Chair was not aware that the roll call had not been continued from the point where it was left off. Ordinance No. 386, by Mr. Lomax: An ordinance relating to the government of the University, and the payment of the interest on the University fund. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled that after the ratification of this Constitution there shall be paid out of the Treasury of this State at the times and in the manner provided by law the sum of not less than $36,- 000 per annum as interest on the University fund, heretofore cov¬ ered into the Treasury, for the maintenance and support of said in¬ stitution. Be it further ordained, that the Trustees of said University may, at any time they deem it proper for the best interests of said university, abolish the military system at said institution or re¬ duce the said system to a department of institution, and that such action on the part of said Trustees shall not decrease the amount of the annual interest payable out of the State Treasury for the maintenance and support of said institution. Referred to Committee on Education. MR. HARRISON—I call for the regular order. THE PRESIDENT—^Thc hour of 11 has not yet arrived. MR. HARRISON—I see that the clock is at 11. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has been listening and the clock has not yet struck. Ordinance 387, by Mr. Murphree: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that the General Assembly of Alabama has authority and is hereby required to enact a law regulating the fees and al¬ lowances for service rendered in and about the administration and guardianship of small estates with a view to curtailing the expenses of same, which shall apply to the fees of the Probate Judge, Sherill and all other cost and charges attending said ad¬ ministrations and guardianships. Referred to Judiciary Committee. 662 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SLOAN—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a short resolution. THE PRESIDENT — Is there any objection? The Chair hears none— MR. WADDELL—I call for the regular order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is too late. The Chair called for objections. The resolution was read as follows: Resolution 165, by Mr. Sloan: Whereas on account of the limited time of three hours each day for the sitting of this Convention; and whereas it is impos¬ sible to accomplish any material work on the regular order in a session of one hour; therefore be it resolved, that when this Con¬ vention adjourns on Saturday it meet on Mondays at 10 o’clock. Referred to Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—The hour of 11 o’clock has arrived and the rules of this Convention require the call of the roll to be sus¬ pended. MR. GREER—I did not hear my name called. It was called so rapidly. It was a very short ordinance to introduce which I ask unanimous consent to be allowed to introduce. The consent was given, and the ordinance read as follows: Ordinance 388, by Mr. Greer of Calhoun: An ordinance to fix the date for the election of city officers in the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that the elections for municipal officers in the various towns and cities of the State shall hereafter be held each four years on the same day on which the general State election 'is held and the terms of the present incumbents are hereby extended or abridged as the case may be so as to terminate on the first day of the calendar month following the next general State election; city officers elected at the first election after the ratification of the Constitution shall hold office for four years, their terms to begin on the first day of the calendar month following the election. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. MR. HARRISON—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a very short resolution. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 $63 MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I do not object now, but I do give notice that I will object to the next ordinance that is offered under a suspension of the rules this morning. The leave was given, and the resolution read as follows: Resolution 166, by Mr. Harrison: Resolved, that all speeches on amendments and ordinances reported by Standing Committees be limited to five minutes each. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. DUKE—I was just about to move to suspend the rules and put that resolution upon its passage. I desire to make that motion. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution has already been refer¬ red, unless the gentleman recalls it. The regular order was here called for. THE PRESIDENT—The regular order is the consideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. And the pending question is the motion of the gentleman from Jeffer¬ son to refer Section 13 with instructions back to the committee. The gentleman from Montgomery has the floor. The gentle¬ man from Hale indicated a desire to amend a resolution which he offered, and which is a part of the matter before the Conven¬ tion for discussion. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I yield for that purpose. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—By a casual omission, the caption of the amendment does not state what it was intended that it should. I therefore ask that I be allowed to amend the caption. It is in writing, and it can be read. The amendment was read as follows: “Amend Section 13 by striking from the section all after the words “to reconsider it” in the fourth line, down to and including the word “respectively,” in the eighteenth line, and insert in lieu thereof the following, “every bill, etc.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, as briefly— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Hale (deGraffen- reid) has indicated a desire to amend a resolution which was of¬ fered, and which is a part— MR. JONES—I yield the floor for that purpose only. MR. deGRAFFENRElD — By casual omission, the amend¬ ment does not speak what it was intended to speak. It is in writ¬ ing, and I, therefore, ask that the caption be read. 664 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Hale asks to amend the caption of the amendment offered by him on yesterday. The Secretary will read the proposed amendment. The Secretary read as follows: Amend Section 13 by strik¬ ing from the section all after the words “to reconsider it,” in the fourth line, down to and including the words “respectively,” in the eighth line, and insert in lieu thereof the following: MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, as briefly as I may, in behalf of the committee, I will touch upon the objections made to the section, which are practically involved in the motion to recommit, and then allow others to debate these amendments. Really, there is but one proposition before the Convention, though it is sub-divided into two by the motion to recommit, and that is the objection to allowing the Governor to suggest amendments. My distinguished friend from Jefferson (Mr. Lowe), speaking upon this question, said, “it seeks to break down the walls that stand between the executive and legislative,” and in another place he says “this is a strange innovation, totally foreign to any¬ thing we have known before,” and in another place it is charact¬ erized as the “most radical proposition that has ever come before this Convention, and I hope the most extreme that will at any time be submitted to it.” As I heard his words, I wondered if our committee unconsciously was so unsophisticated, and so unfami¬ liar with the frame work ox our Constitution, that in making this simple proposition, we were “breaking down the walls between the legislative and the executive” and introducing into this house some startling anomaly, foreign to the spirit of our institution. Why, Mr. President, the Constitution makes it the duty of the Governor to recommend legislation. He can do it in a general message, or in a special message; he can do it in conference with committees, or he can do it in conference with the members. Fur¬ thermore, the Constitution makes him a powerful member of the Legislature in the matter of voting. He cannot vote until after the two houses have acted, and then the Constitution declares lie is so influential a member that he is equal to fifty members in the House and sixteen in the Senate. In the eye of the Consti¬ tution, he outweighs half of the legislators, in all legislation. Then, Mr. President, where is there anything startling or strange in this proposition? The next question is, can it serve any useful purpose? Every one acquainted with legislation, especially in latter days, knows in the hurry which seems to be a necessity when so much legis¬ lation is before the houses, that there are innumerable slips in bills. Sometimes the author says what he does not mean; sometimes he overlooks some good provision in other laws, which he does not wish to destroy, but in fact he repealed; sometimes accident¬ ally he runs counter to some provisions in the Constitution of the State. It is highly proper in these cases that the Executive should CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 665 have an opportunity to get these matters corrected, without put¬ ting the General Assembly in the attitude of passing the bill as it is, or letting it die. I will not enlarge any further on these con¬ siderations, except by illustrating some cases in my own experi¬ ence, which I believe is the experience of every one who deals with legislation. Here is a bill which was vetoed: “To amend the charter of Ft. Payne, in DeKalb County.” Why? Because, in¬ advertently, the draftsman had said that a citizen in DeKalb Coun¬ ty should live in his ward twelve months, to qualify him as a voter, when the Constitution limited it to three months. The Governor, very reluctantly, was compelled to send the bill back. Would it have been any invasion of the province of the General Assembly of any reflection upon its independence, if he had said; “Gentle¬ men, strike out that section, make the bill conform to the Consti¬ tution, and send it back to me and I will approve it. He could not say that and the Legislature could not do that. The result was that the universal desire of the people of that town to change their city government was for the time being defeated, really by a slip of the author of the bill, who had overlooked a provision in the Constitution. Now here is another case, Mr. President: It is a bill “To incorporate Lineville College, in Clay County, Alabama.” The citizens there were anxious to have a good college. The bill pro¬ vided that the school fund and poll tax in the district should go to the children who attended it, and a wise bill was framed to that end. In the hurry of legislation, the draftsman put one lit¬ tle provision in it which poisoned it in the mind of the Governor, and that was in effect that the Board of Trustees of this public school, supported largely by public money, should control it in¬ dependent of the supervision of the State Superintendent, and might put an incidental fee there of three dollars. In the opinion of the Governor, these two provisions vitiated the bill, and he sent it back. If the General Assembly could have amended it by striking that one section out, they would have had that college one year earlier. As it was, it was too late to pass a new bill, and the members were compelled to let the bill die, because they could not amend it, and could not pass it over the veto. Another case, Mr. President. In the hurry of engrossing bills —in an enacting clause, the words “General Assembly of Ala¬ bama” were left out and the bill read, “Be it enacted,” without saying by whom. That was fatal to it. The Governor was com¬ pelled to veto it. The bill related to hiring out of convicts. There was not a member of either house who would not have been glad of the opportunity, if he could have done it, to amend the bill, by putting in the words “General Assembly of Alabama,” and send¬ ing it back for the Governor’s approval. There is no danger, Mr. President that the Executive will veto bills for the fun of it, or to display arbitrary power. The truth is, where we scrutinize 666 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS legislation, we have too few vetoes, rather than too many vetoes. The power and dignity of the Legislature is not touched, by the provisions suggested. The Governor simply sends the bill back with a suggestion, and says to them: “Gentlemen, either pass it over my veto, or amend it and put it in shape, and we will try and enact it into law. I don’t wish to disappoint your purposes.” MR. HARRISON (Lee) — May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. HARRISON—Wouldn’t the very Act to which you re¬ fer have been accomplished by a recall of the bill from the Gov¬ ernor; wouldn’t it have been just as well to have the House cre¬ ating the bill, recall it? MR. JONES—Unquestionably it might; but there are times, and I have known them to happen, when the Governor would send to some member of the House and ask him to recall a bill, and he would say: “No, it is not a matter of my special concern. I have some friends who voted for it. I don’t want to antagonize them and we will let it alone, and you can tussle with it.” But suppose that plan is feasible, Mr. President, where is the harm of allowing this man, who is elected by a million and three-quarters of people, and who is as much a representative of the people as any man on the floor of either House, to say, publicly, what he often does privately. Gentlemen, I have a difference with you. I submit it to you; I don’t wish to put you in the attitude either of passing the bill as it is, or of letting it die. I propose an amend¬ ment, by which we can agree, which is practicable. It is a plain, good old-fashioned, neighborly way of doing things. These were the reasons why we thought it would be a wise plan in practice to incorporate in the Constitution. Individually and as the organ of this committee, I am very averse to doing anything which looks like cutting off debate, and I won’t do it. In order, however, that this matter may be put in shape before the House, I shall move the previous question on the resolution to recommit; and then, if that is voted down, the house can take up these amendments, and we can put the section in shape. If the house does not agree with the committee and makes any change in the amendments, which cannot properly be put in shape on the floor, thus neces¬ sitating recommittal, the committe will do the best it can with the section after it is referred. It seems to me it would be utterly useless to recommit when the house has not discussed the ques¬ tion and has made no decision, I, therefore, move the previous question on the motion to recommit. If that is voted down, then we will pass on the merits. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Montgomery moves the previous question, on the motion to recommit the sec- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 667 tion and amendments to the Committee on Executive Department. The question is shall the main question be now put. Upon a vote being taken the main question was ordered. THE PRESIDENT—The question recurs on the motion of the gentleman from Jefferson, to recommit the section with the pending amendments back to the Committee on Executive De¬ partment. MR. HARRISON—I believe that the motion contains some instructions. I would like to have it read. THE PRESIDENT—The instructions, if the Chair can state them from memory, are that the Committee shall eliminate that portion of the section which authorizes the Executive to suggest amendments. Does that meet the inquiry? MR. HARRISON—^That is satisfactory. On motion to recommit, a division was called for, and by a vote of twenty-four ayes to seventy-eight noes, the Convention refused to recommit. The PRESIDENT—The question recurs on the amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale. MR. MURPHREE—^Am I in order to offer a substitute? THE PRESIDENT—There is now pending an amendment to an amendment, MR. MURPHREE—I want to offer a substitute for the re¬ port of the Committee on Executive Department, and the amend¬ ment thereto, that is as to section thirteen. MR. FITTS—Want to substitute for the whole section? MR. MURPHREE—For the whole section. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair until the amend¬ ment proposed by the gentleman from Hale is disposed of, fur¬ ther amendments will not be in order. MR. MURPHREE—I think this would be a better plan than that of the gentleman from Hale, and would meet the approba¬ tion of the House. THE PRESIDENT—The limit, under the rule of amend¬ ments, seems to be reached when an amendment to an amend¬ ment is proposed, and until the Convention disposes of that amendment, further amendments in the opinion of the Chair would not be in order. MR. OATES—Mr. President, the proposition as I understand it is broad enough to cover all. While of course the substitute «68 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS is in the nature of an amendment, where it is offered as a substi¬ tute for all that is pending, though there be an amendment, and an amendment to an amendment, I think it is in order always, where it is a substitute for all the propositions together—not an amend¬ ment to an amendment, but it is a substitute for all that is pending. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair understands the proposition to substitute is simply a form of an amendment, and while there is an amendment pending to the section, and an amendment to that amendment, it is not in order to offer further amendments, although the gentleman can offer his amendment at a later stage, after the Convention has disposed of the pending amendments. The chair would rule, therefore, that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Pike, is not in order at this time. The ques¬ tion is on the amendment to the amendment offered by the gen¬ tleman from Hale. MR. HOWZE—I rise to a point of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman will state the question of inquiry. MR. HOWZE—To what amendment is the amendment of the gentleman from Hale a substitute or amendment? THE PRESIDENT—It is an amendment to his own amend¬ ment. MR. HOWZE—I would like to have the original amendment read then. THE PRESIDENT—^Will the Convention please give at¬ tention to the reading of the amendments, in order that we may consume as little time as possible? The original amendment has been published. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Yes, sir; it is published and in to¬ day’s paper, and on the desks of the members. MR. HOWZE—I withdraw the request. I did not know that the amendment had been printed. The question was put upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale to the amendment offered on yesterday, and a vote being taken the amendment was lost. MR. COBB—I desire to ask if it would now be in order to offer an amendment to the amendment? THE PRESIDENT—It would be in order, and the chair will recognize the gentleman from Pike. Substitute offered hv Mr. Murnhree of Pike: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 669 “Substitute for the report of the Cbmmittee on Executive Department, and amendments thereto, as follows: That section 13 of Article V of the Constitution of 1875 be adopted in full, with the addition, that the Governor may approve bills within ten days after final adjournment, if approved and deposited with the Sec¬ retary of State within the time.*’ MR. deGRAFFENREID — That is identically the same as this amendment that I offered, Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the substitute of¬ fered by the gentleman from Pike. MR. LOMAX—I rise for the purpose of making a parlia¬ mentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the inquiry. MR. LOMAX—As I understood it, the gentleman from Hale on yesterday offered an amendment to this section, and today he offered an amendment to his amendment. Now the question I understood the chair to put was the question of the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale to his own amendment. Does that leave the original amendment of the gen¬ tleman from Hale before the Convention? THE PRESIDENT—It was the question before the Conven¬ tion until the gentleman from Pike offered a substitute for the amendment and the original section. MR. LOMAX—There has been no vote upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale, and I wanted to know if that was still under consideration by the Convention. THE PRESIDENT—That was the pending question until the gentleman from Pike moved a substitute to the amendment and section thirteen, and that is the pending question at this time. MR. HARRISON—A point of inquiry. In entertaining the motion of the delegate from Pike, which goes to the entire Sec¬ tion, some of us would like to vote for a less number of days than ten. If that substitute is adopted will it cut us off from amending it? In other words, I inquire, without raising the point of order directly, if this substitute is germain to the pending amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale? THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that it is. It is offered as a substitute for the pending amendment and Section 13. MR. BROOKS—I call for the reading of the substitute. The substitute of Mr. Murphree of Pike, was again read. MR. COBB—I rise to a point of inquiry. 670 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the inquiry. MR. COBB—If this substitute is adopted, is it amendable. Is that all, or what disposition is made of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale? What disposition will be made with reference to the other amendments here, m the event of the adoption of the substitute for the amendment? THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that it would be amendable. The question will recur upon the adoption of the original section as amended. MR HARRISON—Would it not be the action of the Con¬ vention,'if, for instance, they fix that at ten days, and it would take a motion to reconsider it? While I am in sympathy with the general spirit of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Pike, I prefer to retain the same time,— shall have six days. I am opposed to the ten days, but if I should vote for the substitute, I apprehend we would have no opportunity to amend it, if the Convention adopts it with that language in it. MR. TONES (Montgomery)—I desire to make a proposition for the purpose of saving time, which I think will at a square vote on all the points on which we differ, and I will state what they are, and then I will make the motion. If we have a motion that is the sense of this Convention that the Governor be not authorized to suggest amendments, and that passes, then that ends the whole matter, and then the article can go back to the Committee to be put in shape. THE PRESIDENT—The question before the Convention is the substitute offered by the gentleman from Pike to the amend- merit, and to the Section. MR. TONES—I rise to a point of order against that. The length of time that the Governor has after the adjournment of the General Assembly has already been decided by this Convention, that is, at ten days,—and the only way to reach that would be to move to reconsider it. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will overrule that point of order. MR MURPHREE—It seems that several members want me to change my substitute to six days, and therefore I will make that change. THE PRESIDENT—Objection is made, and the substitute cannot be further amended at this time. MR BROOKS—In order that the Convention may have a clear idea of what they are voting upon, I ask that amend¬ ment offered by the gentleman from Hale, for which this sub¬ stitute is offered, be read. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 671 The amendment was read as follows: ‘‘Amend Section 13 by striking from the Section all after ‘if any bilT in the eighteenth line thereof, and insert in lieu thereof the following: ‘Every bill which shall have passed both Houses of the General Assembly shall be presented to the Governor. If he approves he shall sign it, but if not, he shall return it to the House in which it shall have originated, which shall enter the objections at large upon the Journal and the House to which the bill shall be returned shall proceed to reconsider it. If, after such reconsideration, a majority of the whole number elected to that House shall vote for the passage of such bill, it shall be sent with objections to the other House, by which it shall likewise be recon¬ sidered, and if approved by a majority of the whole number elect¬ ed to that House, it shall become a law, but in such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the members voting for or against the bill shall be entered upon the Journals of each House respectively.’’ MR. BROOKS—Now I rise to a point of order. MR. JONES—If the gentleman will allow me, I think I can get him out of some trouble. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Mobile has the floor. MR. BROOKS—I make this point of order, Mr. President. Whenever an amendment is proposed, it must be disposed of as a substantive proposition by the Convention, before we can pro¬ ceed to another amendment, and the way to dispose of that is in one of three days: you can either amend by striking out words from the amendment, or by inserting or adding to it, or by strik¬ ing out and inserting. But you cannot offer an amendment to an amendment, by putting in something else that is not germain to the subject matter before the House. Now the subject matter of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Pike simply re¬ enacts, or re-adopts the subject upon which this amendment is pending— MR. O’NEAL—It simply adopts the Committee’s report. MR. BROOKS—It simply adopts the Committee report, and— MR. WILLETT—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Mobile has the floor. MR. WILLETT—Under the rules a point of order cannot be argued. MR. BROOKS—I believe it is in the power of the House to hear the reasons for the point of order. OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS TmF president—T he gentleman will state his point of order “le hfd not c^Lude his L.emen. of the point of order. order^h®??n°".^dJ™^ “n^St n1 i? PS S ri«s?io^ cal i ont^pKoHv else can move an amendment to that, by adopt g c^nno? in° an amendment to an amendment incorporate matters that are not germain to it. Now, if you will allow me one moment; if that tnat vci 3 ^ ^ roherencv of the two is established. 1 think rhafth: p“ ordef r; we'S Uhen and that the snbstitute is out of order. Mr. Jones (Montgomery) sought recognition. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman d^ire to rise to the point of order made by the gentleman from Mobile. MR JONES (Montgomery)— I want to offer a proposition that we could get rid of, by unanimous consent— THE PRESIDENT—The question will be on the point of order made by the gentleman from Mobile. MR TONES (Montgomery)-Will the gentleman withdraw it. and we will get that amendment out of the way m fifteen s onds, by consent of the mover MR. deGRAFFENREID— No, we cannot. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I understood that we could. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the pro- nositions to save time generally result in consuming time, and Te tad probably better proceed resulatly. and dispose of motions in their order. In reference to the point of order made by the gentlernan from Mobile the Chair will say that it’ is the same point of order maJefa^t w^ek The point m'ade by the gentleman from Mobile is that an amendment to an amendment must be confined strictly CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 673 to the matter contained in the amendment. In ruTing on that point last week, the Chair was in doubt, but the chair will adhere to the same ruling now that was made then and will overrule the point of order. Is the Convention ready for the question on the substitute offered by the gentleman from Pike? MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I want to be heard on the question. I think that the gentleman intends, so far as possible, that the law shall remain in the Constitution about to be adopted as it now exists in the Constitution, with the single exception that the Gov¬ ernor shall some time after the adjournment of the General As¬ sembly within which to approve bills. Some objection is made as to the length of time proposed by the gentleman, within which bills can be approved by the Gov¬ ernor after the adjournment of the Legislature. In other words, Mr. President, so far as I have been able to ascertain, the only ob¬ jection that has been made to Section 13, as reported by the com¬ mittee, is the power that is conferred upon the Governor to recom¬ mend amendments to bills, which are presented to him for signa¬ ture, upon the idea that temptation would be presented to the Governor to veto bills and return them for amendment, when the bill, but for the fact that the Governor could recommend a change, would receive his approval. Now the amendment that is proposed by me, and printed in the proceedings of yesterday, simply eliminates from this report of the committee that one objectionable feature and that only, leaving the law just as it stands with the following addition, and if the members will read the amendment proposed by me, they will find that the amendment is simply Section 13 of the present Constitution of the State of Alabama, and added to Section 13 would be the follo^ying, in addition to the section as it now stands, and this would be the change which the amendment by me would make in the law: “if any bill shall not be returned by the Governor, Sundays excepted, within six days after it shall have been pre¬ sented, the same shall become a law in like manner as though he had signed it, unless the General Assembly by their adjournment or recess prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law; but bills presented to the Governor within five days before the ad¬ journment of the General Assembly may be approved by the Gov¬ ernor at any time within ten days after the final adjournment, if approved and deposited with the Secretary of State within that time. Every vote, order or resolution to which concurrence of both Houses may be necessary, except questions of adjournment, and bringing on of elections by the two Houses, and amending this Constitution, shall be presented to the Governor; and before the same shall take effect be approved by him, or being disap¬ proved, shall be passed by both Houses, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill.” OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Now, as , I Mid, the only change that is made if the amend¬ ment which was offered by me on yesterday is adopted, will be the power in the Governor to approve a bill after the adjournment of the House, That matter was discussed, and I do not deem it necessary to discuss it further. It would seem that the Governor should have power to give life to that which has been expressed to be the will of the people, after the adjournment of the General Assembly, if he has not had time to sign it before; but it would also seem that it would not be wise to lodge with the Governor the power, whenever a bill was presented to him, to propose an amend¬ ment, because of the temptation that would exist to offer amend¬ ments to almost every bill that would be brought to him for ap¬ proval, especially in the light of the fact that the State of Ala¬ bama, with only about eight other States in the Union, has the provision in its Constitution that a majority of the members elect¬ ed to the General Assembly can pass bills over the Governor’s veto, instead of the ordinary two-thirds vote required in the Con¬ stitutions of most of the States, and of the United States. MR. OATES—I want to ask the gentleman from Hale a ques¬ tion. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Yes sir. MR. OATES—I think you omitted to state one thing. It is in the present Constitution that the Governor may sign bills with¬ in five days, instead of six. That is a difference of only one day. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Yes sir. MR. PILLANS—As your amendment reads, leaving the first eighteen lines in do you not leave the entire text of the report insofar as it provides for vetoing a bill with amendments ? MR. deGRAFFENREID—It was not intended to. MR. PILLANS—I think it was not intended to, but I think the amendment does do that. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I asked leave this morning to amend, and the President put the question to the House as to whether or not the amendment that I offered should be adopted. I thought it had been agreed to. Your point is well taken, unless the amendment that I offered this morning is adopted by the House, and I now ask leave of the House to so change this amend¬ ment offered by me on yesterday, as that it shall read— MR. SAMFORD—Mr, President I would object— MR. PRESIDENT—^The Chair would rule that further amendments cannot be entertained until the substitute offered by the gentleman from Pike is disposed of. That is in the nature of an amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale. CONSTITUTIONAL GONVSNTION, 1901 675 MR. FITTS—However the matter is regarded, as it now stands, and in whatever technical shape it stands, and whether the gentleman be allowed to go back and strike out other words or not, the whole question, as it is before this Convention now, is substantially the same question which was raised by the gentle¬ man from Jefferson on Saturday afternoon, and upon which the House has voted and sustained the committee. Now, the sense of the Convention having been once ascertained on this matter, and the committee having been sustained, it does seem to us that we might be allowed to pass upon this section as reported by the committee, and go on to other sections of this report. The com¬ mittee is not loathe to have this report torn to pieces, or to have its report amended, and the Convention has enjoyed that privilege to the full; but the committee does feel that when substantially the same point has been raised and passed upon, that we in turn might enjoy the pleasure of having the section approved, and proceed to test the merit of another. Now the whole point raised is exactly the same as the point raised by the gentleman from Jefferson. He raised the objection that is now being urged that the Governor ought not to be allowed to suggest amendments to legislation that has been passed, and sent to the executive office for approval. Now, Mr. President, something has been said about tempta¬ tions, something has been said about danger. There is no danger in /this matter; there is no danger that will beset the Governor; and there is no breaking down, or striking down of ancient land¬ marks as has been said. The Governor has the right to veto the measure now. The only difference is if he vetoes it, he has to send it back to the House in which it originated, with his veto, and the question then becomes the bare, naked question, of whether or not the legislation shall pass notwithstanding the veto of the Governor. Now, when he has the power to veto, so as to require a full majority of both Houses to overcome the veto, where is there any temptation? Where is there any striding over the difference be¬ tween the co-ordinate departments of the government, when we say in the Constitution, that instead of the right of vetoing the legislation that is passed he may simply point out wherein there has been some error, or some technical mishap to the bill, and send it back with the suggestion that with that simple amendment it will meet with his approval. At least, it is simply a difference of practice. If this is put in the Constitution, he can do that with the simple machinery that is provided. He can do it now as has been suggested, by sending for members of the legislature to come down to go through tedious machinery of recalling the legislation by a resolution which consumes time, and reconsidering it, in order to meet suggestions which he makes in a semi-official manner. What harm can be 676 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS done? What temptation besieges him? The word temptation has been used; to strike down ancient land-marks, has been used. Is there any objection to this machinery, instead of the other? Now the Committee feels that it gave very serious consideration to this matter. The Committee debated it very thoroughly and con¬ scientiously and it seems to them that it provides the best and simplest means for him to make known in a public manner, and not in a quasi-private manner, any technical objection which oc¬ curs to him in connection with bills that have passed, and it seems to the Committee that it does not make any dangerous stride to do away with any of the distinctions in the departments of the government, and it further seems to the Committee, gentleman of the Convention, that this is identically the same question, garbed in another way, and dressed in another fashion, as that suggested by the gentleman from Jefferson on Saturday afternoon, and this morning passed upon by the Convention favorably to the report of the Committee. That being the status of the matter, Mr. Presi¬ dent, I move that the amendment be laid upon the table, and upon that I call the previous question. MR. COLEMAN of Greene—Mr. President. MR. FITTS—I withdraw my motion for Judge Coleman. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President it seems to me that the vote in favor of the motion of the Chairman of the Com¬ mittee that this section be not re-committed, was not an endorse¬ ment of the objectionable features which occur to some of us in this section, but was an indication on the part of the delegates of the Convention that they themselves would proceed at once to amend the section as they desired, instead of being subjected to the delay that would ensue from a recommittal. The delegate from Hale offered an amendment which did not meet the ends desired, in the hasty preparation of the amendment, and that was voted down. The gentleman from Pike has offered an amend¬ ment which he calls a substitute, which covers the ground intend¬ ed by the delegate from Hale and which, in my opinion, the dele¬ gates of the Convention are prepared to vote upon. MR. WILSON (Washington)—I move the previous question on the substitute. The main question was ordered, and a division being called for, the substitute offered by Mr. Murphree of Pike, was lost by a vote of sixty-six ayes to twenty-seven noes. MR. SAMFORD—I move to lay the amendment of the gen¬ tleman from Hale on the table. The motion to table was put, and a division being called for resulted in a vote of sixty-eight ayes and thirty-nine noes, so the amendment was laid on the table. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 677 MR. FITTS—I now move the adoption of section thirteen as reported by the Committee, and on that I move the previous ques¬ tion. MR. O’NEAL—I rise to a point of order. There is still an amendment pending before the House. THE PRESIDENT—The chair will entertain the point of order as soon as the motion of the gentleman from Tuscaloosa is stated. The gentleman from Tuscaloosa now moves the adoption of the section as reported by the Committee, and upon that moves the previous question. The gentleman from Lauderdale rises to a point of order. The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—The point of order is this. The gentleman from Hale introduced an amendment, which has not been acted on by the Convention. That amendment was to the effect— THE PRESIDENT—The chair will state for the benefit of the gentleman that the amendment was laid upon the table. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—No, it has not been acted on. MR. deGRAFFENREID—There is another one. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I wish to call the attention of the Convention and the Committee to the fact there is nothing in this section thirteen which authorizes the Houses to pass it over his veto. The only provision in this section is a veto where the Governor proposes an amendment, and the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale was to remove that defect. As the sec¬ tion now stands, there is absolutely no provision for action on the part of the House after the Governor vetoes a bill. MR. LOMAX—Will the gentleman from Lauderdale allow me to call his attention to the language of the first part of the section. I think it remedies the defect which he thinks exists. MR. O’NEAL—Certainly. MR. LOMAX—The language of the first five lines is as fol¬ lows : Sec. 13—Every bill which shall have passed both Houses of the General Assembly shall be presented to the Governor; if he approve, he shall sign it; but if not, he shall return it with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large upon the Journal and proceed to reconsider it. MR. O’NEAL—That is in the language of the Code but here is what follows: “If after such reconsideration a majority of the whole number elected to that House shall vote for the passage of the bill it shall be sent with the objections to the other House 678 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and if approved by a majority of the whole number elected to that House, it shall become a law.” That is entirely omitted from this section, and the next paragraph proceeds in reference to the pro¬ posed amendments of the Governor so that the committee has entirely failed to provide any means by which the House can act on a veto where the Governor absolutely vetoes a bill. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I do not wish to take up much time but I feel that I ought to say a word on that. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Tuscaloosa moved the adoption of the section as reported by the committee and upon that demanded the previous question and the question before the Convention is shall the main question be put, and that ques¬ tion is not debatable. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I thought there was an amend¬ ment which the Chair held was being discussed. THE PRESIDENT—If there is a pending amendment, the Chair is not advised of it. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—There was one introduced Satur¬ day and it has never been acted on. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair fails to recollect that the gentleman has introduced three amendments, the recollection of the Chair is that he introduced two and both of these amendments have been laid on the table by the Convention. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—On Saturday I introduced a reso¬ lution which was read and which has never been acted upon by the House and the records will disclose it. The amendment was introduced to meet an objection which has been pointed out by the gentleman from Lauderdale and it has been among the papers of the Clerk and has not been touched upon by the House. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 13 by adding after the words to reconsider it in the fourth line, the following: “If the Governor’s message proposes no amendment which would remove his objection to the bill, the House in which the bill originated may proceed to reconsider and if a majority of the whole number elected to that House vote for the passage of the bill, the bill shall be sent to the other House, which shall in like manner, reconsider, and if a majority of the whole number elected to that House vote for the passage of the bill the same shall become a law notwithstanding the Governor’s veto.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 679 THE PRESIDENT—^The Chair understands that the gen¬ tleman from Tuscaloosa moved for the previous question upon the section and amendments. MR. JONES'^—^And on that as Chairman of the committee have the right to conclude. THE PRESIDENT—^After the previous question is ordered. MR. JENKINS—I trust that the gentleman from Tuscaloosa will withdraw that. I want to offer a substitute. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman does not withdraw the motion and the question is shall the main question be now put. MR. JENKINS—I rise to a point of order, that is this body there is nothing in our rules calling for the previous question and it is out of order. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is overruled. MR. REESE—Is the main question upon the amendment of¬ fered by the gentleman from Hale? THE PRESIDENT—^The main question will be upon that amendment. MR. REESE—Then will not the gentleman from Hale have the right to conclude the debate on that if the main question is ordered. THE PRESIDENT—On that amendment the gentleman from Hale will have the right to conclude. A vote being taken the main question was ordered. MR. deGRAFFENREID—The reason for the introduction of that amendment was because there is nothing in Section 13 which provides for the passage of a bill over the Governor’s veto which is returned to the House by the Governor without any proposed amendments. It is stated by the Chairman of the Committee on Executive Department that Section 13 does contain such a provision, but it seems to me, as we are adopting a Constitution for a government of the people, that it should be so plain that no person can question the construction intended to be placed upon it. It has only been a moment ago when a distinguished lawyer who was at one time United States District Attorney, stated to this House in his position as delegate here, that there is no provision in this Section 13 which provides for the passage of a bill over the Governor’s veto where the bill is returned to the House without a proposition from the Governor that it should be amended. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Will my friend from Hale allow me to give him briefly what is in this section? 680 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. deGRAFFENREID—Yes, sir. MR. JONES (Montgomeiy)—The section provides when he sends a bill back if that House acts on it it is send back, but if either of the Houses refuse to act on the amendments then the House in which the refusal takes place ffoes ahead with the bill, as in the case of veto, and it goes through both Houses and the section says in that event it shall become a law. I am afraid my friends have not examined the Section as closely as they may wish it to appear. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Here is one Section which is omitted from this Section of the report of the Committee. I ask that the House follow me carefully. This is what is in the old Constitution: Every bill which shall have passed both houses of the Gen¬ eral Assembly shall be presented to the Governor; if he approve, he shall sign it; but if not, he shall return it with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated. Now that is in the old Constitution. Who shall enter the objections at large upon the Journal and proceed to reconsider it. Now upon this point Section 13 now under consideration is the same as Section 13 in the old Constitution. There Section 13 in this report departs from the old Constitution. The old Con¬ stitution says after that; “If after such reconsideration a ma¬ jority of the whole number elected to that House shall vote for the passage of such bill, it shall be sent to the other House by which it shall likewise be reconsidered. If approved by a ma¬ jority of the whole number elected to that House it shall become a law, but in such cases the votes of both Houses shall be de¬ termined by yeas and nays.” That is left out of Section 13 in this report which it is proposed we shall now adopt. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It is put in another place. MR. deGRAFFENREID—That is what the gentleman un¬ dertakes to say by construction, but we are making a Constitu¬ tion, and trying to be plain so that everybody may know what it means and so that courts will not be called on to construe doubt¬ ful questions. If you will read Section 13, after the point where I have stopped, you will see that it begins to discuss an entirely new question, namely, the consideration of bills that are returned to the General Assembly by the Governor with proposed amend¬ ments. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—In order to save time in de¬ ference to my friend, if the House will allow it, although we do not think it necessary, we will accept his amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 681 THE PRESIDENT—The Chairman of the Committee on Executive Department indicates that the Committee is willing to accept the amendment of the delegate from Hale. The question is now on that amendment. A vote being taken, the amendment was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—^The question is on the adoption of the Section as amended. MR. FITTS—And on that I move the previous question. MR. O’NEAL—I desire to offer an amendment. I don’t think it is fair that we should be cut off. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair recognized one of the gen¬ tlemen in charge of the bill—the gentleman from Tuscaloosa— and his motion was to adopt the section as amended, and upon that the previous question was called. A vote being taken, the main question was ordered. MR. MAC A. SMITH—I offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The amendment is not in order. The main question was ordered. MR. SMITH—Then I move a reconsideration of the vote by which the main question was ordered so that I can offer this amendment. THE PRESIDENT—Without a suspension of the rules the further consideration of that motion would go over until tomor¬ row. MR. SMITH—Then I move that the rules be suspended m order that I may offer that amendment. MR. JONES—And I move to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. A vote being taken the motion to lay on the table was carried. MR. O’NEAL—I move to recommit the entire Section to the Committee with instructions to amend it by striking out that portion of the Section which refers to the Governor returning bills wih proposed amendments. THE PRESIDENT—The previous question has precedence of the motion to recommit and the previous question has been or¬ dered and the question is on the adoption of the Section as amend¬ ed. MR. WHITESIDES—And on that I call for an aye and no vote. 682 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The call for the aye and no vote not bein^ sustained by the rising of the requisite number of delegates, on a division the Sec¬ tion as amended was adopted by 73 ayes to 41 noes. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The next Section is Section 14. I desire to state in behalf of the Committee that the only change in that relates to a question of practice. The present Con¬ stitution says the Governor can veto a specific item of an appro¬ priation bill and the question then arose as to whether it was his duty to send the bill back with his message and as he has already approved the bill, the opinion seemed to be that it had no busi¬ ness back in the House and this provides that in his message he shall set out specifically the item to which he objects and file the bill with the Secretary of State instead of returning it to the House. MR. BROOKS—I offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read Section 14, Section 14 was read as follows: Sec. 14. The Gov^ernor shall have power to approve or dis¬ approve any items of any bill making appropriations embracing distinct items, and the part or parts of the bill approved shall be the law, and the item or items disapproved shall be void, unless repassed according to the rules and limitations prescribed for the passage of other bills over the Executive veto; and he shall in writing, state specifically the item or items he disapproves, setting the same out in haec verba in his message; but in such case, the enrolled bill shall not be returned with the Governor’s objection. The amendment of the delegate from Mobile was read as follows: Amend Section 14 of an ordinance to create and define the Executive Department by striking out the same and inserting the following : Section 14. The Governor shall have power to approve or disapprove any item of any bill embracing distinct items of appropriations and the portion of the bill approved shall be the law. He shall in his message specifically set out in full as the same appears in said bill the item disapproved, which shall be void unless repassed according to rules prescribed for the pas¬ sage of other bills over the Executive veto, and the enrolled bill shall not be returned with the Governor’s objections. MR. BROOKS—I do not offer that amendment in any an¬ tagonism to the section as reported by the committee. On the contrary, I favor the provision of that section. I do not think that I can be fairly changed—I hope I shall not be considered as being actuated by a spirit of hypehcriticism, when I say that that section can be condensed very materially to its advantage. I think every provision in the Constitution ought to be brief and as succinctly expressed as is consistent with perspicuity. Now, I have endeavored to condense the provisions of that section, and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 683 I think I have succeeded in doing so, retaining the full substance reported by the committee and obviating what seems objectionable to some members here the Latin words “in haec verba,” which, although appropriate and commonly used in court proceedings, I thought ought to be omitted for obvious reasons in the Consti¬ tution which ought to be expressed in the common mother tongue, in the vernacular with which we are all familiar. Therefore, I propose that the amendment which I have just had the honor to introduce, be substituted for the section as reported by the com¬ mittee. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would state in behalf of the committee that the draft of this section was taken from the old Constitution, with a few words describing the practice. I have discovered great tenderness about Latin words and in behalf of the committee, we will accept “in so many words” in place of “in haec verba,” but our friend seems to forget that there is Latin used in the Constitution, and that the former Constitution makers seemed to think that the people had some knowledge of Latin, for in some of the sections they speak of “habeas corpus” and “quo warranto” and “mandamus.” MR. ROBINSON—I desire to ask the gentleman a question: Suppose the item that is returned to the House is not sustained, what official record would you have of that in the office of the Secretary of State? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No other than what you would have in any other case of veto. It would appear on the journals and the Secretary would know that item was passed over the Governor’s veto. MR. ROBINSON—You would have the enrolled bill with that item disapproved of by the Governor in the Secretary of State’s office and you have the action on the veto in the journal? MR. JONES—There is some slight incongruity either way, but it seemed highly improper to the committee to have a bill before the House that was already a law and with which the House had nothing to do. It should be regulated one way or the other, but the committee has no set desire about that matter. MR. LONG (Walker)—You state there are a few changes made. I want to know what they are and I want to know whether “in haec verba” is in the old Constitution? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Does the gentleman understand what “in haec verba” means? MR. LONG (Walker)—A great many don’t. MR. JONES—I didn’t ask about “a great many people.” I asked if the gentleman understood their meaning. 684 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. LONG (Butler)—Will the gentleman of the committee accept the amendment to strike out “in haec verba and insert “in full?” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Yes! send up the amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The pending question is on the amend¬ ment of the delegate from Mobile, and unless the amendment of the delegate from Butler appears to amend that amendment, it will not be in order at this time. MR. LONG (Butler)—I understand the committee has ac¬ cepted my amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The amendment will have to come be¬ fore the House, unless it is an amendment to the amendment of the delegate from Mobile, which was offered as a substitute, would not be in order. MR. LONG (Butler)—Then I move it as a substitute from the amendment of the delegate fiom Mobile. MR. BROOKS—I don’t well understand how that can be I understood the gentleman from Butler to offer to amend the Lap” words employed by the committee. The whole frame work of the section by my amendment, and he cannot move to amend my amendment by sLething entirely foreign to it. I don’t see how his amendment applies to or touches my amendment. I don t see any words in my amendment to which his amendment cou apply. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment of the delegate from Butler. MR. O’NEAL—I move to lay that on the table. MR. LONG—I withdraw my amendment temporarily. THE PRESIDENT—The proposition is before the House and the gentleman cannot withdraw it except by unanimous con¬ sent. Is consent given? The chair hears no objection, and the amendment is withdrawn. MR. ESPY—I move to lay the amendment of the delegate from Mobile on the table. A vote being taken, the amendment of the delegate from Mobile was tabled. MR. LONG (Butler)—I now offer my amendment, which the committee accepts. The amendment was again read. MR. FITTS—That is satisfactory to the committee. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 685 MR. O’NEAL—I move to lay the amendment on the table. A vote being taken, the motion to table was lost, a further vote being taken, the amendment was adopted. MR. FITTS—I now move the adoption of Section 14 as re¬ ported by the committee, as amended, and upon that I call for the previous question. A vote being taken, the previous question was ordered, and a further vote being taken, the section, as amended, was adopted. Section 15 was read as follows: Sec. 15. In case of the Governor’s removal from office, death, or resignation, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor. If both the Governor and Lieutenant Governor are removed from office, die, or resign, prior to the next general election, thereafter, for members of the General Assembly, the Governor and Lieu¬ tenant Governor shall be elected at such election for the unex¬ pired term. In case of the impeachment of the Governor, his ab¬ sence from the State, unsoundness of mind, or other disability, the power and authority of the office shall devolve, in the order here¬ in named, upon the Lieutenant Governor, President pro tern of the Senate, Speaker of the House of Representatives, Attorney General, State Auditor, Secretary of State and State Treasurer; if any of these officers be under any of the disabilities herein speci¬ fied, the office of Governor shall be administered in the order narned by these officers free from such disability, until the Gov¬ ernor is acquitted, returns to the State, or is restored to his mind, or relieved from other disability. If the Governor shall be ab¬ sent from the State over twenty days, the Secretary of State shall notify the Lieutenant Governor, who shall enter upon the duties of Governor, if both the Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be absent from the State over twenty days, the Secretary of State shall notify the President pro tern of the Senate, who shall enter upon the duties of the Governor, and so on, in case of such ab¬ sence, he shall notify each of the other officers named in their or¬ der, who shall discharge the duties of Governor, until the Gov¬ ernor or other officers entitled to administer the office in succes¬ sion to the Governor, returns. If the Governor-elect fails or re¬ fuses from any cause to qualify, the Lieutenant Governor-elect shall qualify, and exercise the duties of the Governor’s office until the Governor-elect qualifies; and in event both the Governor-elect and Leiutenant Governor-elect, from any cause, fail to qualify, the President pro tern of the Senate, the Speaker of the House of Rep¬ resentatives, the Attorney General, State Auditor, Secretary of State, and State Treasurer shall in like manner, in this order named, administer the government until the Governor or Lieu¬ tenant Governor-elect qualifies. OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 686 In the reading it was disclosed that the word “Governor” was omitted after the word “Lieutenant” in one place and it was in¬ serted by consent and appears in the copy as above printed. MR. JONES—I have an amendment and when the clerk reads it, I wish to explain it to the House. The amendment was read as follows: “Amend Section 15 in the third line by striking out the word “thereafter” and substitut¬ ing in lieu thereof the words “after their election.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—This is insert to make better grammar. In the dictation we used the word “hereafter” instead of after their election. A vote being taken the amendment was carried. MR. WILLIAMS (Barbour)—I have an amendment. MR. JONES—I had not yielded the floor. I want to explain the section. THE PRESIDENT—Has the gentleman any amendment to propose ? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I want to explain simply. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Barbour with¬ draw his amendment? MR. WILLIAMS (Barbour)—Temporarily. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will state to the Convention that the Committee considered this with very great care. We did not attempt to shorten this section because we have had an ex¬ ample very lately of the results of too much brevity in dealing with things that may be obscure. So the Committee took up first, the removal, death or resignation of the Governor and said who should succeed him. Then they provide if both the Governor and Lieutenant Governor are removed from office, die or resign prior to the next general election after their election for members of the General Assembly the Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be elected for the unexpired term. Then the Committee provided as in the old Constitution for the cases of disability, un- soundne.ss of mind, and absence from the State and added the three other officers named in addition to the President of the Sen¬ ate and Speaker of the House. Then they take up the question of absence and who shall administer the office in that event. They they provide in so many words for the contingency of the Governor- elect failing or refusing to qualify and for a failure or refusal of the Lieutenant Governor to qualify and we hope we have made the Article so plain that it will meet the approval of the Conven¬ tion. Now I yield the floor to the delegate from Barbour who withdrew his amendment to allow me to make my explanation. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 687 MR. WILLIAMS (Barbour)—I offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: “Amend Section 15 bv inserting" after the words ‘unexpired term’ in the fifth line, the following sentence: And in the event of a vacancy in the office caused by the removal from office, death or resignation of the Governor or Lieutenant Governor, pending such vacancy, and until their successors shall be elected and quali¬ fied, the office of Governor shall be held and administered by either the President pro tern of the Senate, Speaker of the House of Representatives, Attorney General, Auditor, Secretary of State and Treasurer, and in the order herein named. MR. WILLIAMS (Barbour)—The purpose of that is to pre¬ vent an interregnum. I think if the gentleman will read their Section that they will see under their Section there is a possibility of an interregnum. “In case of the Governor’s removal from office, death, or resignation, the Lieutenant-Governor shall become Gov¬ ernor.’’ Now that is straight. “If both the Governor and the Lieu¬ tenant-Governor are removed from office, die, or resign, prior to the next general election, thereafter, for members of the Gen¬ eral Assembly, the Governor and Lieutenant-Governor shall be elected at such general election for the unexpired term.’’ If they are both out there is a vacancy. This Section simply looks to an election for their successors, but that may be twelve or eighteen months off. Now there are three situations in which the other officers of the State are called upon to take the Executive chair and neither one of those situations is the one that is named in the first part of this Section. In case of the impeachment of the Gov¬ ernor, his absence from the State, unsoundness of mind or other disabilities, the power and authority of the office shall devolve in the order named upon the different State officers. Now, that is not the situation. The first contingency is where both the Gov¬ ernor and Lieutenant-Governor are out and there is a vacancy and the provision is that sometime when the election comes on a successor shall be elected. Now further, in line seventeen, there is another contingency. If the Governor shall be absent from the State over twenty days the Secretary of State shall notify the Lieutenant-Governor, who shall enter upon the duties of the Gov¬ ernor, if both the Governor and Lieutenant-Governor shall be ab¬ sent from the State over twenty days, the Secretary of State shall notify the President pro tern of the Senate, who shall enter upon the duties of the Governor. That is not the situation presented in the first part of his ordinance, because there is no vacancy, they are simply absent from the State for a given length of time. The last contingency is if the Governor fails or refuses from any cause to qualify the Lieutenant-Governor shall qualify and exercise the duties of the office until the Governor elected qualifies. And in 688 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the event both the Governor-elect and the Lieutenant-Governor fail to qualify the President pro tern of the Senate and Speaker of the House, etc. Now, not one of these adjustments, if I understand the reading of them, provide for the incumbency in the event of vacancy. In the first provision if the Governor and Lieutenant-Governor both shall die, resign or be removed from office, it provides for an election, and all these other arrangements for the incumbency and administration of the office are for special conditions, neither one of which is the contingency to which I refer and it struck me there is a vacancy unavoidable, and the amendment I offer pro¬ vides for that situation, wiping out any chance of a vacancy. It is an amendment that does not harm even if the gentlemen think it is not necessary, but reading this ordinance in plain old-fashion English, I cannot see it otherwise than there may be a vacancy with no one provided to fill it. MR. BOONE—I move that the amendment be ad()i)ted. A vote being taken the amendment was adopted. MR. PETTUS—I offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: ''Amend Section 15 of Article V. by striking out the words 'President pro tern of the Senate' in lines 22 and 23 of said Sec¬ tion," MR. PETTUS—My reason for offering that atnendment is that at a time when the Senate is not in session if a question as to the succession to the office of Governor arose, there mig-ht be grave doubt as to who is the President pro tern of the Senate, or in case there is no President pro tern of the Senate and the suc¬ cession should go to the Speaker of the House, there might be some question as to whether or not a President pro tern of the Senate subsequently elected, after the Speaker of the House had assumed the duties of the office—as to whether the President pro tern had a superior right, although elected subsequently to the Speaker of the House taking charge. To remove that doubt I move to strike out “President of the Senate” wherever it occurs in this Section and in the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Barbour. It seems to me that having provided for a Lieu¬ tenant-Governor who presides under the Constitution over the de¬ liberations of the Senate, if he is incompetent or refuses to qualify for his office that the succession should go directly to the Speaker of the House, and not to the President pro tern of the Senate, and 1 therefore move the adoption of the amendment. MR. JONES—I call my friend’s attention to the fact that provision is made in the Constitution for the election of a President pro tern of the Senate when the Lieutenant-Governor is absent CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 6S9 from the Senate, therefore, if the Lieutenant-Governor were to die or, as is the common practice in Washington, gets out of tKe way for the purpose of allowing a President pro tern to be elected, the President pro tem would be elected and the records show that he was President pro tem of the Senate, and it seems to me there is no necessity of the amendment of the gentleman from Lime¬ stone. MR. PETTUS—In the event of the Governor succeeding to his office before the meeting of the Legislature, and then a vacan¬ cy occurring and the Lieutenant-Governor refuses to qualify, the succession would go directly to the Speaker of the last House. MR. JONES—I think it would go to the President pro tem of the Senate, if there was such an officer. MR. PETTUS—But suppose there is no such officer, it would go to the Speaker of the House, and suppose after he takes charge a President of the Senate is elected, would the Speaker of the House hold on or would the President pro tem of the Senate take charge? MR. JONES—I could not say. I have not examined as to that. MR. PETTUS—Then there is a doubt as to the construction, and we ought to make it plain. MR. JONES—I would not give an off-hand opinion on a con¬ stitutional question like that, but it seems the last President pro tem would be the one to take charge. MR. PETTUS—I would ask if the President pro tem is not a casual officer? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Casual in one sense, because he is created when the Lieutenant-Governor is away, but he is no more casual than any other officer. I move to lay that amend¬ ment on the table. On a division the motion was carried by 75 yeas and 22 nays, so the amendment was tabled. MR. FITTS—I now move the adoption of Section 15 as amended and upon that I call the previous question. MR. ROBINSON—I will ask the gentleman to withdraw that a moment. I would like in line six where the words are “-his ab¬ sence from the State for over twenty days,” I would like to make that twelve. MR. FITTS—I do not yield. 690 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Tuscaloosa moves for the adoption of the section as amended and calls for the pre¬ vious question. MR. REESE—I want to be informed. In Section 5 of this article it provides that the Governor shall be ineligible to oHice and is under a pledge not to go to the United States Senate. This Section 15 provides for the election of a Governor for an unexpired term. Is he to be excluded the same way? MR. FITTS—He is. MR. REESE—And in the event the Attorney General is called on to be Governor, who is to serve as Attorney General? MR. FITTS—The probability of an Attorney General ever succeeding as Governor is so remote that we did not think it was necessary to make Constitutional provision, but should it oyer occur, the Attorney General would vacate his office by becoming Governor and he would appoint his own successor to the office of Attorney General. A vote being taken the previous question was ordered and a further vote being taken the section as amended was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—Read the next section. Section 16 was read as follows : Sec. 16. If the Governor or other officer administering the office shall become of unsound mind, it shall be the duty of the Supreme Court of Alabama, upon request in writing of any two of the officers named in Section 15, not next in succession to the Governor, to ascertain the mental condition of the Governor, or other officer exercising the office—and if he is of unsound mind, to so certify upon its minutes; a copy of which, duly certified, shall be filed in the office of the Secretary of State; and in that event, it shall be the duty of the officer next in succession, to per¬ form the duties of the Governor, until the Governor or other officer exercising the office is restored to his mind; when the incumbent denies that the Governor or other person entitled to administer the office, has been restored to his mind, the Supreme Court, at the instance of any officer named in Section 15, shall ascertain the truth concerning the same, and, if the officer has been re¬ stored to his mind, shall so certify on its minutes and file a duly certified copy thereof with the Secretary of State, and in that event his office shall be restored to him.'" MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The committee has an amend¬ ment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 16, line 2, by adding after the Word Alabama the words ‘'under such regulations as may be prescribed." CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 691 MR. * JONES—I will state the object of the committee in offering that is to give the Supreme Court the machinery to make such regulations as they see fit in the event a case arises. After conversing with members of the Judiciary Committee and other distinguished members of this body it was thought wisest to allow the Supreme Court itself to make such rules and regulations as it deemed proper, and, therefore, in deference to their opinions the committee offers this amendment. MR. ROBINSON—I desire to ask the gentleman a question. This section says in line one ‘Tf the Governor shall become of unsound mind it shall be the duty of the Supreme Court to have an inquisition.’’ Why should there be an inquisition if he is of unsound mind? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Suppose it is disputed? MR. ROBINSON—But you say if he ‘^is.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The language is "'if the Gov¬ ernor shall become.” MR. ROBINSON—If he is of unsound mind, why necessary to inquire into it. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It is to prevent conflicts that might arise. Suppose I were Governor and the Lieutenant Gov¬ ernor said I was crazy and the Lieutenant Governor went into the office and commenced to act and I said he was crazy and I took possession. The matter of succession under such circum¬ stances is so delicate a thing that it is proper to have some tribunal. As all Governors are mortal it is a contingency that may arise and we thought it was necessary to provide some tribunal to determine the fact. MR. McDonald—I have an amendment to the amendment proposed by the Committee. The amendment was read as follows: '‘Amend the Commit¬ tee’s amendment to Section 16 of Article V by adding the follow¬ ing words: ‘The request in writing hereinabove provided for shall be verified by affidavit of those making such request, and the Supreme Court shall prescribe rules of practice in such proceed¬ ings, which rules shall include a provision for the service of notice on the Governor of such proceeding and the method of taking testimony therein.’ ” MR. MACDONALD—I offer that amendment because I think it unwise that it should be left to the Supreme Court to decide whether or no such a grave matter as the sanity of the Governor shall be tested in an ex parte proceeding. The Section offered by the Committee left it entirely discretionary with the Supreme Court to provide rules of practice or give any notice to 692 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the Governor but merely provides that any two of the officers by request, whether written or verbal, can call upon that great body to act upon such a serious question as the sanity or insanity of the Chief Executive of the State. MR. FITTS—^The Committee is content with your suggestion and will accept your amendment. MR. JONES—We were trying to avoid using so many words. MR. PILLANS—I wished to make a suggestion to the Chair¬ man of the Committee which I thought would reach the objection of the delegate from Chambers, but I could not get the floor and I offer it now as a substitute to the amendment offered. THE PRESIDENT—The chair will suggest to the gentle¬ man from Mobile that there is now pending an amendment to the Article as reported and an amendment to that amendment. MR. PILLANS—One was an amendment of the Committee. THE PRESIDENT—But under the rules under which we are proceeding, it will be necessary to submit that to the Con¬ vention and then your amendment will be in order as soon as one amendment is disposed of. MR. PILLANS—I ask that it be read, because it covers the matters dealt with in those amendments and I think harmonizes the situation. The amendment of the delegate from Mobile was read as. follows: “Resolved, That Section 16 of Article V be amended as fol¬ lows : By adding after the word ‘shall’ in the first line of Section 16 and before the word ‘become’ in that line two words ‘appear to have’ so that said line shall read ‘if the Governor or other officer administering the office shall appear to have become of unsound mind,’ etc., and by adding at the end of the third line the words ‘under such rules and methods of procedure as it may prescribe and adopt for hearing and determining such matters. The hour of adjournment having arrived. Committee meet¬ ings were announced, and the Convention then adjourned. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 693 TWENTY-FOURTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Wednesday, June 19, .1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Murphy, as follows: O Lord, Our God, who hast made and who rulest all, be among us, we beseech Thee, enlightening with Thy light and sus¬ taining with the compassions of Thy power. Defend us from the perils of the ignorant, and from the pitfalls of the proud. Keep far from us the spirit of the oppressor, and the touch of the unholy, that the glory of our hearts may be found in the welfare of the people, and that the fruitage of our labors may be garnered in the lasting harvests of their security and dignity and peace. Uphold us with Thy truth! Bring to every member of this House O Father, the blessings of Thy tender and constraining care. Where there is sickness or death or sorrow vouchsafe the sweet deliverance of Thy comfort and Thy strength. Within the homes of all who labor here, bring the sw^ift defenses of Thy love, and keep us all for Thine own for¬ ever! We ask it in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. Leave of absence was granted Mr. Opp of Covington for Mon¬ day last. The report of the Committee on the Journal was read, stat¬ ing that the Journal for the twenty-third day of the Convention had been examined and found to be correct. Upon motion of Mr. Graham of Talladega the report was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll of Dele¬ gates for the introduction of ordinances, resolutions, etc. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I desire to call attention to an error in the stenographic report. The resolution introduced by myself on yesterday morning in the second line, the numbers 550,000 occurred, and the stenographic report has it $510,000. I desire to have that correction made. MR. ROBINSON (Chambers)—Yesterday I moved to in¬ sert the words “after twenty days.” The stenographic report says “I will ask the gentleman to withdraw that a moment. I would like in line six, where the w’ords are “his absence from the State for over 20 days.” I would like to make that 12.” I said 694 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS nothing of that kind. I asked the Executive Committee to insert 20 days where there was no number of days specified. I also desire to correct the report where it says “you would have the enrolled bill with that item disapproved of by the Gov¬ ernor in the Secretary of State’s office, and you would have the action on the veto in the Journal.” I said would not have. There is nothing in here that I said. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman’s seat is a little far back and it is a little difficult for the Chair to hear him, and possibly the stenographers did not hear him. MR. ROBINSON—I do not desire to cast any reflection up¬ on the stenographer at all. The delegates in this part of the House cannot hear nor be heard. The call of the roll for the introduction of ordinances, etc., proceeded. Resolution No. 167, by Mr. NeSmith: Whereas, this Convention, at the conclusion of its labors, should issue an address to the people of Alabama, outlining briefly the changes made and showing the superiority of the new Con¬ stitution over the one under which we are now living; And whereas, should a committee be speedily appointed for the purpose, such address would be better and more easily pre¬ pared. Therefore, be it resolved that the President of this Conven¬ tion be empowered to appoint a Committee of Twelve, of which he shall be the chairman, to draft such an address. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 168, by Mr. Oates: Resolved. That inasmuch as the printed acts of the last ses¬ sion of the General Assembly are so voluminous as to make them unwieldly and easily destructible that the Secretary of State be directed to have them bound as follows: The General Laws in one volume, the General and Local Laws together in two volumes, and the State Auditor is hereby authorized to give his warrant on the Treasurer for the cost of the additional bindings, at the rate provided for in the contract for the public printing. Referred to Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Expenses. MR. OATES—I offer that resolution at the instance of the Secretary of State. I only have his explanation, which I will not CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 695 undertake to give to the Convention. I stated to him after it was referred he could go before the Committee to which it was refer¬ red, and give them the explanation. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I yield my place to Mr. Wil¬ liams of Marengo. Resolution No. 169, by Mr. Williams: Whereas, The Convention has incurred considerable expense in obtaining a stenographic report of the proceedings of the Con¬ vention, and whereas, the wisdom of the reports appears more apparent every day, and whereas, as a ready reference the reports are a failure as they now are, and whereas, an index would add greatly to the value of the reports. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Convention, that as soon as the Convention shall have adjourned sine die, that the Secretary of State be and he is hereby authorized to contract with some reliable party who shall make a complete index of said re¬ port, and shall place the same in each of the volumes of the re¬ ports heretofore ordered kept for the use of the State; and shall further cause to be printed in some paper in Alabama, the said index, so that those people of Alabama who are preserving the reports may easily obtain a copy of said index for their use and preservation. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 389, by Mr. O’Neill (Jefferson): Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, that no agent of any person, firm or corporation, whose place of business located in this State, shall be charged license tax by any city, town or municipal corporation in the State of Alabama to which said agent may come from the city, town, or municipal corporation when said person, firm or corporation is engaged in business to solicit business in towns to which said agent comes, in case where it would be unlawful under the inter¬ state commerce law, if said agent or drummer represented a per¬ son, firm or corporation doing business out of the State. Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations. Ordinance No, 390, by Mr. Spears: An ordinance authorizing and making it the duty of the Com¬ missioner’s Court of St. Clair County to erect a suitable court house and jail at some place in said county on the south side of Backbone Mountain whereat the courts are to be held for the trial of all causes and the transaction of all legal business origi¬ nating in and pertaining to the people residing in Beats 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21 of said county. 696 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 1 Be it ordained by the people of Alal^ma in convention assembled that the Commissioner’s Court of St Clair County is hereby authorized and empowered and it is hereby made the duty of said court to erect or cause to be erected a suitable and jail at some place in said county on the south side of the Back Cni Mountain ^t which court house all the courts of said county shall be held for the trial of all causes and the transaction of all legal business originating in Beats 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, , 19, 20 and 21 of said county. 2 It shall be the duty of said commissioner’s court at its first regular meeting after the ratification of this constitution to take all necessary steps and make all necessary orders for the levy and collection of a sufficient amount of money by way of taxation from the tax payers and taxable property in said coun y to pay for the erection of said court house and jail, but all of said tax shall not be levied and collected in one year. and jail shall be completed in every way and be ready for the hold¬ ing of court and the transaction of all legal business on or before the spring term of the Circuit Court of said county 1903. 3 The General Assembly of Alabama at its next session after the ratification of this constitution shall enact all necessary laws regulating the holding of all the courts of said county at said new court house and that may be necessary to carry out this ordinance to its full intent. 4. It shall be the duty of the probate judge of said order an election to be held in Beats 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, l^; P- o, 17 19 20 and 21 not later than sixty days after the ratification of ’this constitution at which election the qualified voters I'ving in said beats shall select a place by a ballot for the erection of said court house and jail the place receiving the largest number of votes cast at said election shall be the place where at said court house and jail shall be erected. Referred to Committee on State and County Boundaries. MR BROWNE—I ask unanimous consent to send up and have read a communication to the committees of the convention from the Educational Association. The communication was read as follows; Montgomery, June 19, 1901. Hon.J. B. Graham, Chairman Committee on Education, Hon. Cecil Browne Chairman Committee on Taxation : Mv Dear Sirs—At a regular meeting of the Alabama Educa¬ tional Association Tuesday, June 18, the following resolution was adopted; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 697 Resolved, That the hour of 4:30 p. in. Wednesday be the hour set apart for the discussion of “local taxation for school purposes’' and that a committee be appointed to invite the Constitutional Convention Committees on Education and Taxation, to meet with this association at that hour. The following’ committee, in accordance with above resolu¬ tion, have the honor to invite your and your committees to be present at the above named hour, and we trust you will be with us and participate in the discussion. Respectfully, J. D. Humphrey, J. W. Abercrombie, G. C. Thach, J. Savage, J. B. Cunningham. MR. BROWNE—I now ask that the communication lie upon the table, and that all the members of the Committee on Taxation who are able to do so, will attend. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I would like to amend that by stating that the place of speaking is at the Girl’s High School on Lawrence Street, about four blocks from the postoffice. MR. STEWART—I yield my call to Mr. Greer of Perry. Resolution 170, by Mr. Greer (Perry): Resolution of welcome to the Alabama Press Association. Whereas the Press of Alabama is recognized as the most po¬ tent factor in disseminating information and in moulding public opinion throughout every county, city, town, hamlet, and rural district of the State of Alabama, and Whereas, the Press of Alabama, as a majority, has ever been found on the side of the people, and of law and order, on all ques¬ tions affecting the public weal, and in no time in its history has it failed to secure an endorsement of its fight for right, law and justice, and Whereas, this Constitutional Convention owes in a large measure this assembling of the representatives of the people to the efforts of the Press of Alabama whose voice was almost an unit for the call of the convention, and Whereas, a close scrutiny of the columns of the State Press will show that it is today promulgating every act of this conven¬ tion, discussing, and dissecting the same, so that each and every 698 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS voter may be enabled to vote intelligently on the question of en¬ dorsement or refusing to endorse the action of this convention, and Whereas, The Alabama Press Association will meet in an¬ nual session in the city of Montgomery on Thursday and Friday of this week. Therefore, be it Resolved, by the people of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled, That the editors, their wives, daughters, sons and friends, composing this Association, be extended an invita¬ tion to attend upon the meetings of this convention during their stay in this city. Be it further resolved. That this convention invite the criti¬ cism of the Press of Alabama with reference to the arduous task now confronting this body, in formulating a new organic law, be¬ lieving as we do that these intelligent criticisms will redound not only to the ratification of our acts, but that the people will there¬ by be apprised of the efforts now being made by their representa¬ tives to fulfill their duties honestly, fearlessly and conscientiously. Be it further resolved. That this convention extends best wishes to those members who shall take the happy outing to the Pacific Coast, and that their trip may prove one of pleasure and of profit, and that they may return to their homes feeling that they have been rewarded in garnering information that will aid them in their progressive stiides towards placing their State at the head of the realm, in progress and education, as she now stands in natural resources, and acknowledged possibilities. Referred to Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Expenses. MR. GREER (Perry)—I move that the rules be suspended and that the resolution be put upon its passage. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move as a substitute that it be referred to the Committee on prayer. THE PRESIDENT—The ordinance will be referred to the Committee on Printing, Incidental Expenses, etc. (Laughter). Ordinance No. 391 by Mr. Whitesides: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention as¬ sembled, That the legislature shall make no discrimination against any business trade, occupation or profession in requiring a privi¬ lege tax where the purpose of the privilege tax is to raise revenue only. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 699 MR. WATTS—I move a suspension of the rules so as to pro¬ ceed to the consideration of the report of the Committee on Execu¬ tive Department. THE PRESIDENT—The clerk states that he has only a few names on the roll. Upon completing the roll call, Mr. Watts renewed his motion, and upon a vote the rules were suspended, and the convention proceeded to the consideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. The president—T he convention had under considera¬ tion at adjournment yesterday, section sixteen of the report of the Committee on Executive Department, and the committee of¬ fered an amendment. Thereupon the gentleman from Mobile, Mr. Pillans, offered and had read a proposition for the informa¬ tion of the house, which he proposed to offer subsequently as an amendment. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Before taking up that amend¬ ment, I desire to call the attention of the Committee on Executive Department and the house to an ommission in a section which we have already adopted, and which I think they will readily agree to correct. In line six of section fifteen it is provided in case of the impeachment of the Governor, his absence from the State, etc., and it ought to be amended by adding for more than twenty days. Mr. Robinson undertook to call the attention of the convention to that omission, but somehow it seems to have been misunderstood. Now, under the section as it stands, one day’s absence of the Governor would authorize the Lieutenant Gover¬ nor to take charge of the office, and I am sure that was not the intention of the committee, and it was purely an oversight, and I am satisfied they will agree to the correction. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—^The Committee has not the slightest objection to the correction, so as to eliminate the pos¬ sibility of doubt. They do not think that it is necessary, as it is covered in another place, but they ask that the house unanimously allow the correction to be made. MR. ROBINSON—I will ask the Committee if I did not offer that identical matter on yesterday, and they refused to accept it? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President we could not hear what the gentleman wanted, but if we were wrong yesterday, we are right today, and we are willing to confess whenever we are in error. MR. ROBINSON—I am glad to hear it. It is suggested however, that the report of the Committee ought to be considered by the convention. 700 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The matter is not in order without a suspension of the rules. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I hope the convention will al¬ low it. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I move a reconsideration. MR. OATES—Would it not be in order by unanimous con¬ sent? There is no one objecting to it, and by unanimous consent it could be put in without any reconsideration. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair after matter is passed, that it can only be attained by a motion to reconsider the action of the convention. The motion to reconsider the vote by which the section was adopted was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment of¬ fered by the gentleman from Chambers,— MR. ROBINSON—I have the amendment here. THE PRESIDENT—Or the gentleman from Lauderdale? MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—The clerk has it. The amendment was read as follows; Amend Section 15, line six, by adding after the word State, in line six, “for more than twenty days.’’ Upon a vote the amendment was adopted, and upon a further vote Section 15 as amended was again adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment of¬ fered by the gentleman from Montgomery to the amendment pro¬ posed by the Committee to Section 16. The amendment was read as follows: Committee’s amend¬ ment—Amend Section sixteen, line two, by adding after the words Alabama, the words “under such regulations as it may prescribe.” Mr. McDonald’s amendment to the amendment was read as follows: “To amend Section 16 of Article V, by adding the fol¬ lowing words: “The request in writing hereinbefore provided for shall be verified by the affidavit of those making such request and the Supreme Court shall prescribe the rules of practice in such proceedings, which rules shall include a provision for the service of notice on the Governor of such proceedings, and the method of taking testimony.” Upon a vote being taken, the amendment to the amendment was adopted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 701 MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The gentleman from Mobile offered a suggestion on yesterday, and I understood perhaps he would write it out, and I think possibly the article would be bet¬ ter if his suggestion were incorporated in it. MR. PILLANS—I wrote it out and sent it up, but the latter part is covered better by the amendment which has just been adopted, and I withdrew the latter part of my amendment. MR. WATTS—I have an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will inquire of the gentle¬ man from Mobile whether his proposition applies to the amend¬ ment to the amendment proposed by the Committee, or to the Section? MR. PILLANS—It applies to the first part of the report. The part that was alluded to by the Chairman of the Committee. THE PRESIDENT — The question now will be upon the adoption of the amendment proposed by the Committee to the Section as amended. MR. PILLANS—I thought that had been covered by the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Montgomery. THE PRESIDENT — The amendment to amendment has been adopted, but the amendment to the Section has not been act¬ ed on. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I desire to offer an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Montgomery. THE PRESIDENT — The Secretary will read the amend¬ ment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend by adding after the word Governor “or other officer administering the office.’’ MR. O’NEAL—The amendment is just this. He provides for notice to be served on the Governor, and I provide for notice to be served on the Governor or other officer administering the office. MR. McDonald—I accept that. The amendment to the amendment upon a vote was adopted. MR. PILLANS—Now, Mr. President, I offer the amendment to which I alluded yesterday. THE PRESIDENT—The amendment offered by the Com¬ mittee has not been acted upon. Is the Convention ready for the question on the amendment offered by the Committee? m OCTlCIAIi PROCEEDINGS Upoa a vote beiiif takea, the amendment offered by the Com¬ mittee^ and a# amended by the amendment, was adopted. MR* PIlvLANS—I now offer the amendment which was ac¬ cepted by the chairman of the Committee, and which is merely to make the lang^uage consistent. THE PRESIDENT—Please send up the amendment. MR. PILLANS—^The amendment is in the hands of the Clerk. The amendment was read as follows: Resolved, That Section 16 of Article V be amended as follows, by adding after the word “shall” in the first line of Section 16, and before the word “be¬ come,” in that line, the words “appear to have” so that the said line will read “if the Governor or other officer administering the office shall appear to have become of unsound mind.” Upon a vote being taken the amendment was adopted. MR. WATTS—I now offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 16, Ex¬ ecutive Department, by inserting after “minutes” in line five, the following, “and when said investigation shall be, ordered the offi¬ cer next entitled to the office of Governor, according to the pro¬ visions of Section 15, shall assume the duties of said office, and discharge the same until said investigation shall have been con¬ cluded and decision rendered therein.” MR. WATTS—^The object of that amendment is, because as I understand this Section there is no provision made for the oc¬ cupancy of the office of Governor while the investigation is being carried on, and the object of that amendment is simply to provide for that hiatus. MR. SAMFORD—I simply desire to say in reply to the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery that the proposition he makes here, or the amendment he proposes, might oust the Governor of Alabama from his seat for an indefinite period, without any adjudication whatever as to his sanity or insanity, and that it is a marvelous proposition, it occurs to me, to let two or three men get together and say that the Governor of Alabama is of unsound mind, or ap¬ pears to be of unsound mind, and therefore, Mr. Lieutenant Gov¬ ernor, you walk into the office and take charge of it, until this matter can be adjudicated by the Supreme Court of Alabama, and for that reason I do not think that amendment is a good one. MR. JONES—I dislike very much to dissent from any propo¬ sition made by my friend from Montgomery, Mr. Watts, who is always level-headed, except sometimes when he differs with this Committee, but the Committee carefully considered that and if the members remember, it provides that when two officers swear that the Governor appears to be of unsound mind, the Supreme Court shall investigate it. Now, if the amendment offered by my CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 703 friends from Montgomery is adopted, whenever two men swear that he appears to be of unsound mind, ipso facto he is put out of office, because the Supreme Court, when the matter is brought to its attention in that way is bound to investigate it, and the Commitee thought better to leave that matter alone, than to have any provision for suspending him pending the investigation. If a sad case of that sort arises, the Supreme Court would certainly end it in a day or two, and the State could not come to any great harm; certainly not as much as if it Were put within the power of two officers to swear that a man is crazy, and ipso facto put him out until the Supreme Court decides he is sane. Therefore, I hope the amendment will not be adopted. MR. OATS—I understand your objection is that the proposi¬ tion is to put the Governor out before he is determined to be in¬ sane—you want to let him hold office until it is determined he is insane. MR. JONES—That is exactly the proposition. ^ MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move to lay the amendment of 'the gentleman from Montgomery on the table. The motion to table was carried. MR. SAMFORD—I move that the Section as amended be adopted and on that I call for the previous question. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I rise to a question of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman will state the question of inquiry. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—Has not the Committee overlook¬ ed an amendment which was proposed by the Committee in its report of June 10th, and ought that not to be considered at this time ? THE PRESIDENT—^The chair does not remember that the rules specifically prescribe as to amendments by the Committee, but that is the order in >vhich they are tisually considered, and it is the order in which we are considering them. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—The point of inquiry is that it seems to me the supplemental report, or the amendment offered by the Committee on June 10th, has not been disposed of. We are about to adopt this Section as a whole, and I call attention to it. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman calls attention to the fact that the amendment proposed in the supplemental report of the Committee has not been disposed of. 704 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES (Montgfomery)—The gentleman is correct. I will read it— THE PRESIDENT—Unless the gentleman withdraws his call for the previous question. MR. SAM FORD—I withdraw for that purpose. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If the Chair will permit me, I will read the amendment proposed, and which in the discussion was lost sight of. “When the incumbent denies, that the Governor or other per¬ son entitled to administer the office, has been restored to his mind, the Supreme Court at the instance of any officer named in Sec¬ tion 15, shall ascertain the truth concerning the same, and, if the officer has been restored to his mind shall so certify on its min¬ utes and file a duly certified copy thereof which the Secretary of State, and in that event his office shall be restored to him.” THE PRESIDENT—The question now is upon the amend¬ ment offered by the Committee, which has just been read in the , hearing of the Convention. The amendment was adopted. MR. SAMFORD — I move the adoption of the Section, so amended, and on that I call for the previous question. The motion was withdrawn by request. MR. FERGUSON—I desire to ask the Chairman of the Com¬ mittee if the plan here proposed supersedes an inquiry by a Court as to the sanity of the Governor. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I do not think it would inter¬ fere in any case where his mere personal concerns were involved —property and other matters of that sort—but it was the purpose of the Committee to have this delicate matter, so far as it affects the powers of the Governor, determined by the Supreme Court, and no other tribunal; and this is what they believe they have affected by the Section in question. MR. FERGUSON—I desire to offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Pike yield? MR. SAMFORD—No sir. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion— MR. FERGUSON — He had yielded the floor to me, Mr. President. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 705 MR. O’NEAL—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Pike yielded to the gentleman from Jefferson and had with¬ drawn his motion temporarily. MR. SAMFORD—I have no objection in the world to the amendment if the gentleman wants to offer it. THE PRESIDENT—The understanding of the Chair was that the gentleman from Pike yielded to the gentleman from Jef¬ ferson for the purpose of asking a question of the Chairman of the Committee. MR. SAMFORD—I now yield to him for the purpose of of¬ fering the amendment if he desires to offer it. Amendment by Mr. Ferguson: Provided, however, that if any court of competent jurisdic¬ tion in this State, upon inquiry into the same shall ascertain ac¬ cording to the rules of law in such cases, that such Governor, or any of said officers in said line of succession and exercising said office, is of unsound mind, the mode of inquiry first above set out shall be deemed unnecessary; and the certificate of the Judge or Clerk of such Court adjudging such fact shall the filed in the of¬ fice of the Secretary of State; and in that event it shall be the duty of the officer next in succession to perform the duties of Governor, until the Governor or such other officer is restored to his mind. MR. SAMFORD—I move to lay the amendment of the gen¬ tleman from Jefferson on the table. A division was called for by a vote of 63 ayes to 24 noes, the amendment was tabled. MR. SAMFORD—I now renew my motion to adopt the Sec¬ tion as amended, and upon that I call for the previous question. The previous question was ordered, and upon a further vote Section 16, as amended, was adopted. Section 17 was read as follows: Sec. 17.—The Lieutenant-Governor, the President pro tern of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, shall receive during the time they respectively administer the govern¬ ment, like compensation as that fixed for the Governor; provided, if the General Assembly shall be in session during the time such officer may administer the office of Governor, they shall receive no compensation as officers or members of the General Assembly. MR. JONES—I have sent up to the Clerk’s desk a substitute for that Section, which I ask the Clerk to read. 706 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—Is it proposed by the Committee? (Mr. Burnett endeavored to secure recognition). MR. JONES—Yes, sir. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman yield? MR. BURNETT—Yes;,the substitute may be acceptable. THE PRESIDENT—^The Chair has recognized the gentle¬ man from Conecuh, but he understands that he withdraws his amendment temporarily. The substitute for Section 17 was read as follows; Strike out Section 17, as now written, and insert in lieu there¬ of the following words: Sec. 17.—The Lieutenant-Governor, President pro tern of the Senate, Speaker of the House, Attorney-General, State Auditor, Secretary of State, and State Treasurer, while administering the office of Governor, shall receive like compensation, and no other than that prescribed by law for the Governor. MR. OATES—I call attention to the fact that the conven¬ tion has stricken out the word State preceding Auditor and Treasurer heretofore. MR. JONES—I remember that very distinctly, and some of us think we yielded too precipitately in deference to the sugges¬ tion of the gentleman from Montgomery (Mr. Oates). If it is necessary to bring that matter up again we will bring it up now. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the substitute proposed by the committee. Upon a vote being taken the substitute was adopted. Section 18 was read as follows: Sec. 18. No person shall at one and the same time, hold the office of Governor of this State, and any office, civil or military, either under this State or the United States, or any other State or government, except as otherwise provided in this constitution. MR. JONES—This is the exact phraseology I believe of every constitution we have ever had, and unless some gentleman wishes to amend it, I move that it be adopted as read. The motion was carried and the section adopted. Section 19 was read as follows: Sec. 19. The Governor shall be commander-in-chief of the militia and volunteer forces of this State, except when they shall be called into the service of the United States, and he may call CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 707 out the same to execute the laws, suppress insurrection, and repel invasion; but need not command in person unless directed to do so by resolution of the General Assembly, and when acting m the service of the United States, he shall appoint his staff and the General Assembly shall fix his rank. MR. JONES—I move the adoption of the section. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I call the attention of the commit¬ tee or its chairman to what seems to be a misprint in the phrase¬ ology of that section. It has the word “they in the second line, and it ought to be the word “he”. MR. SAMFORD—That refers to forces. The section was thereupon adopted. Section 20 was read as follows; Sec. 20. The Governor shall not appoint any member of the General Assembly, during the term for which he shall have been elected, to any office. MR. SANDERS—I have an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—Does the amendment proposed by the gentleman relate to the amendment proposed by the Committee? MR. SANDERS—No sir. A vote being taken upon the amendment proposed by the Committee, the same was adopted. Amendment by Mr. Sanders (Limestone) was read as follows ; Amend Section 20 by adding after the vvord “office” in the jfccond line, the following words; “created during said term. Mr. President, it will be noted that the section as reported by the Committee disqualifies any member of the legislature ^r- ing his term from appointment to any office within this State. 1 he amendment as proposed by myself disqualifies member of the General Assembly only to such offices as shall be created during the time for which they are elected. I think, Mr. President, th^ the ends sought will be obtained by adopting the amendment. A member of the General Assembly attends upon the spsion fifty days and is generally through with the discharge of his duties as a member on the termination of that session. I can conceive, Mr. President, that it may be very desirable to appoint a member of the General Assembly to a constitutional office in Alabama which shall become vacant by death or other reason during his term. The object sought, Mr. President, is, to remove members of the General Assembly from a possible undue influence exercised upon and over them by the Chief Executive. I don t see, Mr. 708 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS President, that that can apply where vacancies shall occur in con¬ stitutional offices of the State, such vacancies usually occurring by death, insanity, removal from the State for some cause. That cannot occur during the session of the Legislature, and therefore the influence which the Chief Executive may bring upon the mem¬ bers cannot apply to such case, and I therefore think the amend¬ ment is wise, and that it may be very desirable in this State to appoint at some time a member of the General Assembly to some office in the State which he has not helped as a member to create. MR. THOMPSON (Bibb)—I desire to offer a substitute for the amendment of the delegate from Limestone. Sec. 20. No mem¬ ber of the General Assembly shall during the term for which he shall have been elected, be appointed to any office of profit in this State which shall have been created or the emoluments of which shall have been increased during the term for which such mem¬ ber shall have been elected. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Bibb to the amendment of the gentleman from Limestone. MR. PETTUS—I rise to question of inquiry. Did the gentle¬ man from Bibb offer that as an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Limestone, or a substitute for the entire section and amendment. MR. THOMPSON—As a substitute for the entire section and amendment. MR. PETTUS—Then it is out of order because it is in the nature of an amendment—I withdraw the point of order. MR. THOMPSON—It will be observed by a casual reading that the amendment is simply the provision of the old constitu¬ tion though it is included here in the article on Executive Depart¬ ment where in the old constitution it is in the article on Legisla¬ tive Department. It is copied word for word from the State Con¬ stitution of 1873 as it stood, and I submit that it is not necessary to prevent good men from becoming members of the General Assembly to disfranchise them, in effect to disqualify them for any office. The General Assembly is not one that is so very at¬ tractive any way, and when a man knows that on the acceptance of a place in the lower house that he is disqualified from appoint¬ ment to any office for two years, he would be very loath to ac¬ cept it; and, on the other hand, if it was a place in the Senate to which he might be the unanimous choice of his district, if fie had any idea of succeeding the Circuit Judge of his Circuit, his Solicitor, his Probate Judge, in case of a vacancy he would stop and think several times before he placed himself in the attitude of being ineligible to such appointment should the necessity for one arise. I do not think there is any very good reason for the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 709 section as it exists in the report of the committee on Executive Department. It has been said here that we should be slow to make changes in the present constitution, and these changes should not be made without there existing very good reasons for them, and I am unable to see any good reason for the section as proposed by the committee. The amendment proposed by the gentleman from Limestone is all right, but it does not go far enough, it does not put sufficient restrictions around the General Assembly. MR. SANDERS—May I ask the gentleman a question. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Bibb yield? MR. THOMPSON—Yes sir. MR. SANDERS—In what respect does it modify mine? MR. THOMPSON—Simply adds no gentleman shall be ap¬ pointed to office the emoluments of which shall have been in¬ creased by the Assembly of which he was a member. MR. SANDERS—I accept the amendment. MR. THOMPSON—And I hope the convention will adopt this section instead of the section proposed by the committee. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Wisely or unwisely this convention has been placing restrictions upon gentlemen who have been elected to high office. A proposition is now pending not to ap¬ ply that rule to members of the General Assembly. I believe Mr. President that if we can not risk the Governor in the full and complete discharge of his duties, that he might be a candidate to succeed himself or go to the United States Senate. I cannot see any superior excellence in a member of the legislature that would prevent him from voting in a certain direction in keeping with the Executive idea. I for one, believe that the Governor of the great State of Alabama is equal in integrity and in patriotism to any member of the Legislature, and as we have committed ourselves to the policy of restricting the Chief Executive and other State officers, it seems to me that the reasons are still more urgent that we should restrict the members of the legislature. There are members of the legislature. There are members on this floor, Mr. President, that have run up against this question, and have had experience upon it and I challenge any member on this floor to point us to a single instance where the Chief Executive of the State had a question in mind that he desired to be enacted into law, that any member of either house who was at the time a can¬ didate for office, where the appointment was to be made by the Executive, voted contrary to the Executive’s wishes. It some¬ times happens that a Senator or a member of the house is a can¬ didate for Railroad Commissioner. It places such a legislator In a very embarrassing position to be forced to oppose the appoint- 710 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ing power if the appointing power advocates a certain line of leg¬ islative policy. If there should happen to be a solicitor or a judge upon whose life it would seem the Almighty had placed his hand, and that in a short time he may have passed away from this earth to his reward, there might be Senators and representatives that would aspire to fill the position and for that reason would not like to run counter and oppose the Executive idea. We have gone so far, Mr. President, as I understand it to allow the Execu¬ tive to suggest amendments to bills which he has vetoed, and which if amended he would approve. It does seem to me that this is far enough, and while I do not bring into question the motives of any Senator or Representative that may have represented his district or county in the past or may in the future, it has been my observation that gentlemen of either house who are candidates for office usually ride in the band wagon of the Chief Executive. That being the case, I want to untie the hands of the General Assembly so there can be no cudgel either justly or unjustly wielded over their heads. I hope the amendment offered by the gentleman from Bibb will be defeated and I move to lay it upon the table. MR. OATES—Will the gentleman withdraw the motion a moment. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I withdraw the motion. MR. OATES—I will renew it—perhaps a little enlarged. Mr. President, this section properly belongs to the Legislative De¬ partment, and it has been before that Committee, and elaborately considered and amended by the insertion of one word which that Committee thought would meet the objections to it as it stood, and as I am decidedly in favor of that, I think it the proper place for it, though not wholly inappropriate here as it relates to the Governor, yet it relates more particularly to the Legislature, and the eligibility of members for appointment to certain offices the restrictions to which are it seems to me, more explicitly stated, and with all due respect to the Committee and gentlemen who have offered amendments, I move to lay the section of the Com¬ mittee as reported, with the amendments, on the table. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I hope the gentleman will with¬ draw that. The Committee has not said a word. MR. OATES—I will certainly do so for the purpose of al¬ lowing the chairman of the Committee to be heard. THE PRESIDENT — The Gentleman from Montgomery (Oates) withdraws his motion to table, in order that the Chair¬ man of the Committee may discuss the question. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—So far as this matter concerns the appropriate place in the Constitution, it seems to me that it is entirely appropriate either in the Executive or Legislative CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 711 Article. We have the matter before us, and we can settle it now. While I yield great deference for so influential a committee as that on the Legislative Department, I do not see why this con¬ vention should suspend judgment because that Committee, which has not yet reported, thinks it has something better than we now have. If that Committee has something better let them bring it forward, and if it meets the wishes of the Convention the amend¬ ments will be accepted. I only wish to add one word to the forci¬ ble argument which has been made by the gentleman from Jef¬ ferson (Cunningham). One of the best ways to test a principle is to observe its practical working. I may perhaps be pardoned for referring to some advice that a very wise politician gave me some years ago, when I had a troublesome office, which had many appointments to make. He said: “You have three Railroad Commissioners to appoint. There are as many as 100 applicants. The members of the General Assembly are urging this one and that one. If you have any legislation that you want to get through, don’t you appoint these Railroad Commissioners until the end of the session, because if you do you will be torn to pieces. If you will hold those appointments—not announce what you will do—but keep them until the end of the session, you can do almost what you please during the session as to any honor¬ able or fair proposition that you want and hold the two Houses in the hollow of your hand.’’ Mr. President, there have been times when this power of the Governor to appoint—the power of the Governor to make members of the two Houses believe that they would ingratiate themselves in his favor by supporting bills and measures he favored—would be repaid in the future by appoint¬ ments to office, has, so to say, made a Governor master of both Houses of the people was reversed, and their intense longing for the will of the people was reversed, and their intense longing for a Constitutional Convention was throttled in the very Houses which gave it birth. For reasons like these the Committee believe this is a wise provision to put in the Constitution. It is in the Constitutions of other States with late experience of that subject. We wish as far as we can—^while it may operate harshly in par¬ ticular instances—to get men to come to the Legislature who come here to work for the welfare of Alabama, and not to get an office. How many elections for Solicitors have we seen where good men on the outside, competent men on the outside, were de¬ feated by some member of the Legislature who had the power to traffic and trade in offices; and if this Convention, as I believe is its desire, wishes to improve the standard of political morality in this State, don’t let us vote down a proposition like this. MR. OATES — I desire to read Section 17 of the present Constitution. Section 17—No Senator or Representative shall, during the terms for which he shall have been elected, be appointed to any 712 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS civil office of profit under this State, which shall have been cre¬ ated or the emoluments of which shall have been increased dur¬ ing such term, except such offices as may be filled by election by the people. It is probably not out of place, as I refer to this having been amended by the Committee on Legislative Department to show wherein it has been changed. It will read: “No Senator or Rep¬ resentative shall during the term for which he shall have been elected, be appointed to any civil or military office, etc.” That is the only change proposed to be made by that Committee. I renew the motion to table. MR. JONES—On that I call for the yeas and nays. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I call for a division of the question. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Montgomery has the floor. MR. OATES—I am not disposed to throttle debate, and I will withdraw the motion to table. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Then I renew it, to table the amend¬ ment. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Bibb (Mr. Thomp¬ son) has the floor. MR. THOMPSON — Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I regret that I have to differ with the most distin¬ guished men of this Convention, but, like them, I have my views upon this subject, and I think that opinion is formed without prejudice to any man, and not backed by passion or anything but what is for the future best interests of Alabama. Now as to the arguments of the distinguished gentleman from Montgomery, not one word, Mr. President, is applicable to this case. In the in¬ stances cited by him, it was not an appointment sought by any member of the General Assembly, but appointments sought by outsiders, who he argues were urged and supported by members of the General Assembly. Then, if he is right his Section has no effect. Why not, if the distinguished chairman of the Com¬ mittee wants to carry out his purpose, make it a criminal offense for any member of the General Assembly to recommend any man to the Governor of Alabama for office, then he will reach his point, and not until then. His argument does not fit this case. He is simply working a past prejudice, MR, JONES—I used it simply as an illustration of the power where they urged other people, still more so when they happen to be candidates themselves. MR. THOMPSON—I submit that his illustration does not illustrate. No, Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Convention, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 713 I hope the membership of this Convention will stop and think for one moment, and not be carried off their feet by that may exist against any man that was Governor of this ^ate in days gone by. Mr. President, it is to be hoped that the Civi War is over. It is to be hoped that some of our former political campaigns are over, and that memories of them are dead and gone. Are we going to frame this Constitution upon what may have been our political alignment in a former political fight. 1 hat is the whole force of the gentleman’s argument. Now, the ques¬ tion is this: Will we say to some of the best men in the Coun¬ ties that you shan’t come to the General Assen^ly if you have any hope whatever of holding any office in your County that may become vacant during the time for which you are elected. Why, in some of the smaller Counties-they may not be so favorably situated as the County from which the distinguished Chairman of the Committee comes, they may not have numbers and num¬ bers of men to select from, the people of that County might oe unanimous for one man for the General Assembly and unam- mous for another for the State Senate, and that man then by the acceptance of that office disqualifies himself from holding any place by appointment from the Governor of Alabama. Gentle- ment of the Convention, stop and think about that thing for a moment. In the words of my friend from Walker (Mr. Long) probably it may not be the big six, but the big three, against me In this proposition, Mr. President, but I believe I am right just the same, and I hope that the delegates on this floor will con¬ sider this proposition carefully and thoughtfully and vote for the amendment. MR LOWE—Mr. President, it is with some degree of pleas¬ ure to myself that I can feel that I am in accord with the Commit¬ tee on Executive Department. I dislike to differ with my friend from Limestone, who I believe to be always conservative, and who is the author of this amendment. I believe that the report of the committee should be adopted, and I believe that the reasons which inspired the committee to make the report upon this par ticular section, should even yet act upon the committee and make them withdraw or modify the report that they succeed in passing here in this House on yesterday. On yesterday they succeeded in passing through this House a proposition that gave to the Ex¬ ecutive power exceeding that of any dozen or more members t the people send here. Today, by their report, they recognize the fact that there should be limitations placed upon the power of the Executive The reason for it. Mr. President, is more readily un¬ derstood by those who have had experience than it can ever pos¬ sibly be stated or explained. We know the power of the Execu¬ tive We know that it is insinuating m its nature. We know that it travels no beaten path. We know that it finds its mark in the way most open and most plain to it. 714 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS When for the first time in all of the history of representative government, so far as I know, you give the Executive the right practically to sit upon the floor, and amend legislation, and then if you go further and allow that Executive to select from among the members of that Legislature his appointees to office, you know you put into one man’s hands the power to run your State. It seem’s so plain to me, I do not see why men should differ about it. Why isn’t it wise and well to preserve the separate depart¬ ments of the government, distinct and independent of each other? Why isn’t it well to say in the language of the committee, that the Governor shall not go upon the floor of the House to select his appointees? It may never happen that Alabama will ever need one of them, or one of us, to fill any public office in her gift. There are eighteen hundred thousand people in Alabama. They will never need one of the Legislative Department to fill any public office, for there are as good men out of the General As¬ sembly as will ever be sent to it. It will not only keep up the lines of demarkation between the departments, but make them stronger. The man who is willing to serve the State as a legis¬ lator—and it is always a mattei of self-sacrifice—ought not to be called upon again to surrender his own interests and serve the State in some other capacity. There will never be a time in Ala¬ bama, or in any county in Alabama—and my friend from Bibb need not be disturbed—that there will not be found worthy men in every county and every precinct in Alabama fit to serve in any capacity to which the people may call them. I think the report of the committee should be adopted, and I think the committee ought to recognize that provision is inconsistent with their pro¬ vision of yesterday, whereby they ought to tear down the lines of demarkation between the departments. MR. CUNNINGHAM (Jefferson)—I will briefly and court¬ eously criticise the position taken by the delegate from Bibb, that the dead past should bury its dead. The advantage that one civ¬ ilization has over previous civilization is the lessons of the past; the things that are good, as examples to be followed, and the things that are evil, as examples to be shunned. We can do this without mentioning names and instances, and calling to mind certain particular things. That could be done on this occasion, but propriety and good taste forbid it. I will never submit nor subscribe to the proposition that if in going a certain path I run up against a stone wall, that should I start out again I should not take another path or have the stone wall removed. Therefore, I say that it is the duty of this Convention to apply the lessons of the past, it matters not whence nor where they come, nor what the motive, to the future, and I subscribe to every word that has been uttered here by the committee, and by my colleague from Jefferson, that there is no reason why we should exempt a mem¬ ber of the Legislature from these inhibitions and restrains and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 715 yet enjoin upon and require them of the Chief Executive of the State. I now renew my motion to lay the amendment on the table. MR. REESE—The gentleman has spoken several times on this motion. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Twice, which I have the right to do under the rules. I will withdraw my motion. MR. REESE—Mr. President, movements for reform are fre¬ quently accompanied by much danger. There is sornetimes a prevalence of views that leads up to an extreme at times, and we are apt to act incautiously. I think the adoption of this change, and I regard it as a radical change. Mr. President, might be serious for it changes a doctrine that has existed since the foundation of the government and we should contemplate to some extent the results that may follow such radical movement as the one now suggested. Conditions in the recent past unfortunately have been fre¬ quently referred to upon this floor. I deem it unfortunate that a recent administration of the affairs of this State should have been the occasion of such frequent remarks. I differed radically with the policy of the last administration but I have always recog¬ nized and recognize now the ability of the recent Governor of Alabama, although I opposed him in politics. Mr. President, the prejudices that arose in recent campaigns are not to be called on upon this floor to lead us into doing some¬ thing we should not. This proposition here eliminates from ser¬ vice upon the floor of the Halls of our legislative bodies some of our ablest men. Conditions now in Alabama are such that we are not able to secure the services of our best men in legislative ca¬ pacities. In my own county there exists and has existed in get¬ ting our ablest men. Our ablest men have been urged and pleaded with, without success, to take these offices. We urged arid pleaded with our ablest men from Dallas to come here and fill the positions on this floor that I and my colleagues are now fill¬ ing, without success. The only candidates before the people of Dallas County were the men who occupy position on this floor today. Every man who was a candidate before the people of Dallas County occupies a seat in this Convention hall. Now, Mr. President, this is not an attractive eposition. It is a field that is without adequate compensation. Most of us who come here in some wa}'^ or other spend $4 a day and neglect our important business at home and if you further the curtailrnent and elimination of our men best capacitated to fill these offices, there will be greater difficulty in getting our ablest men to come. It is a fact that a member of the legislature will exercise just as much chicanery or whatever the friends of this measure choose to 716 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS call it, in dealing with the Governor in the interest of a friend as they will for themselves, and some of us exercise more. When a man comes to the legislature he will use his legislative vote just as much to accomplish the appointment of some other man as he will to accomplish his own appointment and he can do it with greater decency. Why, Mr. Chairman, I have heard since the organization of this Convention a gentleman who occupies a po¬ sition upon this floor say that the people of the County would probably vote against the adoption of the Constitution unless a minor office in the Convention was given to an applicant in that County. That shows how fai men will go in support of the claims of their friends. Mr. President, I appeal to this Convention to be conservative and not thoughtlessly rush into matters that will eliminate and disqualify many of our ablest citizens. In other words, will an able man make the sacrifice of neglecting his own business to occupy a seat upon these legislative floors if he has ambition when, by taking that seat, he surrenders his ambition for two or perhaps four yeais? MR. O’NEAL—Does the gentleman not recognize that fact that the adoption of this provision will have a tendency to in¬ crease the independence of the Legislative Department? MR. REESE—I do not. MR. O’NEAL—Does the gentleman deny that the effect of this will be to increase the independence of the Legislative De¬ partment? MR. REESE—I don’t t’nink it will have that effect. I think everything that has been done in the past if there have been such things done by men to get an office for themselves will be con¬ tinued for the benefit of the men they represent and Mr. Presi¬ dent, the men who seek these positions of Railroad Commission¬ ers and Convict Inspectors and other places select their represen¬ tatives and send them here upon that errand to accomplish that purpose and they will do it and when you debar honorable and capable men from being appointed to these offices it will be easy for the prospective candidates for those offices to select their men to run to represent them. MR. O’NEAL—Did I understand the gentleman to say that the best men do not come to the legislature? MR. REESE—I unquestionably did say so. MR. O’NEAL—If that is true, do you think it wise to allow the Governor to appoint men to high and important offices from the legislature? MR. REESE—The gentleman’s question is an argument in favor of the proposition I make. I do not concede the last propo¬ sition made by the gentleman to be true. He evidently insinu- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 717 ates that the legislature as at present organized, is composed of unfit men to these appointments and still he proposes to further lower the standard of the legislature by eliminating a great many men who are fit for offices of this kind. We do have some roen in that body who have sufficient patriotism to make the sacrifice necessary to go to the legislature and those men should not be de¬ barred. MR. CUNNINGHAM — Will the gentleman permit me a question? MR. REESE—Certainly. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Does the gentleman from Dallas ad¬ vance the argument that the hope of appointment to office should operate as an inducement for distinguished and able men to offer themselves as a sacrifice for service in the legislature? MR. REESE—No, sir, I do not. MR. CUNNINGHAM — Then I misunderstood the gentle¬ man’s argument. MR. REESE—The proposition I desire to impress is this: That we do have a difficulty now in getting able men to go to the legislature. Sometimes some of them do come and I ask you not to put a further obstacle and handicap on them by saying to them if you do come you shan’t have any office during the four or two years for which you were elected. Mr. President, I have not seen any great abuse of this as far as my observation has ex¬ tended. The abuse has mostly been made by members of the legislature who are sent here by these men who want these of¬ fices and generally the influence of the legislature has been used in behalf of men who are not members of the General Assembly. Sometimes there has been an exception, probably numerous ex¬ ceptions. MR. SAMFORD—I now move to lay the amendment of the delegate from Bibb on the table. MR. CUNNINGHAM— And upon that the ayes and noes are called for. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman moves to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Bibb as distinguished from the gentleman from Limestone on the table. MR. SAMFORD—I understood that was accepted by the delegate from Limestone. I moved to lay both of them on the table. THE PRESIDENT—The ruling of the Chair is that after a motion has been placed in possession of the Convention, without unanimous consent it cannot be taken from it and the gentleman 718 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS from Pike moves to lay upon the table the amendment offered by the delegate from Limestone and the substitute offered by the delegate from Bibb and upon that the ayes and noes are demanded. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that that motion should be separated. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the point of order is not well taken. MR. REESE—Can I understand what the motion is? THE PRESIDENT—The motion is to table the amendment of the delegate from Limestone and the substitute of the gentle¬ man from Bibb. MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that the motion is not in order. You cannot move to lay an amendment and an amendment to that on the table. MR. WHITE—The gentleman from Limestone accepted the amendment of the gentleman from Bibb and therefore only a matter is before the House. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the point of order is not well taken. The Convention can lay an amend¬ ment or the whole Section and amendments on the table. The object of laying on the table, as originally understood, is that it lies upon the table and may be taken from the table any time in the future that it is desired. MR. PETTUS—To meet the views of the gentleman who want to vote differently on the two propositions, I demand a di¬ vision. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I make the point of order that the delegate from Limestone accepted the substitute of the delegate from Bibb to which acceptance there was no objection and there¬ fore there is only one matter before the Convention. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has uniformly ruled whe^re amendment have been offered after the proposition has been placed before the Convention even amendments offered by a Com¬ mittee to its own report cannot be accepted except by unanimous consent and unanimous consent was not asked in this case and the pending amendment is the amendment of the delegate from Bibb and the amendment of the delegate from Limestone, and the Delegate from Pike moves to table both amendments. MR. PETTUS—And I ask a division to meet the views of some of the members who want to vote differently on those two propositions. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 719 MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I rise to point of order. There is nothing to divide. MR. SANDERS—If I am in order, I ask unanimous consent that the amendment offered by the delegate from Bibb may be considered as my amendment, so that we can save time. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Limestone asks unanimous consent. Is there objection. The Chair hears none arid the amendment proposed by the delegate from Limestone will be considered as having embodied in it the proposition of the delegate from Bibb. The amendinent of the Committee and the substitute of the delegate from Bibb were read. THE PRESIDENT—It is moved that this amendment be laid upon the table and upon that the ayes and noes have been demanded. MR. BEDDOW—I rise to a point of order, that the call for the ayes and noes has not been sustained. THE PRESIDENT—The question is, shall the call for tjie ayes and noes be sustained. Thereupon the call for the ayes and noes was sustained by the rising of the requisite number of the delegates. The result of the roll call on the motion to table the amend¬ ment of the delegate from Bibb was as follows: AYES Ashcraft, Barefield, Beavers, Bethune, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Cornwall, Craig*, Cunningham, Davis, of DeKalb, Dent, deGraffenreid, Duke, Eley, Espy, Ferguson, Fletcher, Gilmore, Glover, Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Greer, of Calhoun, Greer, of Perry, Handley, Henderson, Hodges, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jackson, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Kirkland, Knight, Leigh, Locklin, Lowe, of Jefferson, Lowe, of Lawrence, MacDonald, McMillan, of Baldwin, Malone, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller (Marengo), Miller (Wilcox), Morrisette, Mulkey, Norwood, Oates, O^Neal (Lauderdale), O'Neill, of Jefferson, Opp, Palmer, Phillips, Porter, Reynolds, of Henry, OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 720 Robinson, Rogers (Sumter), Samford, Sanford, Selheimer, Messrs. President, Almon, Altman, Bartlett, Beddow, Blackwell, Boone, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Burns, Byars, Cardon, Carmichael, of Colbert, Carmichael, of Coffee, Carnathon, Case, Davis, of Etowah, Foshee, Foster, Freeman, Grayson, Smith, Mac. A., Smith, Morgan M., Spragins, Stewart, Tayloe, NOES Haley, Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Hinson, Hood, Jenkins, Jones, of Bibb, Kyle, Ledbetter, Long, of Butler, Long, of Walker, McMillan (Wilcox), Martin, Moody, Murphree, NeSmith, O’Rear, Parker (Cullman), Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Pettus, Pillans, Vaughan, Weakley, White, Williams (Marengo), Winn, TOTAL—76. Proctor, Reese, Renfro, Reynolds (Chilton), Rogers (Lowndes), Sanders, Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Smith (Mobile), Sorrell, Studdard, Thompson, Waddell, Walker, Watts, Weatherly, Whiteside, Willet, Williams (Barbour), Williams (Elmore), Wilson (Clarke), Wilson (Washington), TOTAL—68. absent or not voting Banks, Coleman, of Walker, Eyster, Fitts, Graham, of Montgomery, King, Lomax, Mulkey, Norman, Sollie, Fitts, Spears, So the motion to table prevailed. MR SAMFORD — I move the adoption of the Section as amended, and upon that I demanded the previous question. MR BROOKS—I move to lay on the table the Section re¬ ported by the Committee so that the Constitution will remain as it is and on that I call for the ayes and noes. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It is too late to make such a motion when the previous question is called for. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 ‘721 MR. BROOKS—motion to table has precedence of a mo¬ tion for a previous question under our rules. THE PRESIDENT~The motion of the delegate from Mo¬ bile is to lay on the table— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—-How does the Chair rule on the point of order I made against that? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair heard no point of order. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I made the point of order that there was a motion for the previous question before the motion to table and that motion for the previous question has precedence. THE PRESIDENT—Under the rules the motion to lay on the table has precedence. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It must be under our rules then for it has not under general parliamentary law. THE PRESIDENT—It is under our rules, and the question is on the motion of the delegate from Mobile to table the Section reparted by the Committee. MR. BROOKS—And on that I call for the ayes and noes. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I rise to a point of order. The call for the previous question had been made previous to the mo¬ tion to lay on the table, and the motion to lay on the table was too late. I admit the motion to lay on the table has precedence, but that precedence does not exist when there is a motion for the previous question pending. MR. BROOKS—The idea of precedence could not arise if one motion was not offered befote the other. The gentleman offers a motion for the previous question and then I offer the motion that the original section be laid on the table and I contend that has precedence as the Chair has properly ruled. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will overrule the point of order and the question will be upon the motion to table and upon that the ayes and noes are called for and the question is shall the call be sustained. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Do I understand the motion before the house is to table the call for the previous question? THE PRESIDENT—No, sir; to table the section as read. MR. WHITE—What became of the previous question? THE PRESIDENT—That will be in order when the House disposes of the motion to table which has precedence. m OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. WHITE—I rise to inquire whether when the call for the previous question has been made anything is in order except to see whether that is sustained? THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, the mo¬ tion to table having precedence, would be in order, just as a mo¬ tion to adjourn woiild be and the Secretary will call the roll. MR. BROOKS—The effect of this motion, if adopted, is to lay on the table the section reported by the Committee, which would leave the Constitution as it now is. THE PRESIDENT—The effect of the motion will be to lay on the table the section as reported. MR. O’NEAL—And then there would be no law at all. The call for the yeas and nays having been sustained by the rising of more than the requisite number, the roll call on the mo¬ tion to table the section of the Committee’s report, resulted as> follows: AYES Messrs. President, Aimon, Bartlett, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Byars, Cardon, Carmichael, of Coffee, Case, Davis, of Etowah, Eley, Foshee, Foster, Grayson, Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Altman, Ashcraft, Barefield, Beavers, Beddow, Hinson, Hood, Jackson, Jenkins, Jones, of Bibb, Kyle, Long, of Butler, Long, of Walker, McMillan, of Wilcox, Martin, Miller, of Marengo, Moody, NeSmith, Oates, O'Rear, Parker, of Cullman, Parker, of Elmore, Pearce, Pettus, Pillans, NOES Bethune, Blackwell, Boone, Carnathon, Chapman, Proctor, Reese, Renfro, Reynolds, of Chilton^ Rogers, of Lowndes, Sanders, Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Smith, of Mobile, Sorrell, Thompson, Waddell, Walker, Watts, Whiteside, Willet, Williams, of Elmore, Wilson, of Clarke, Wilson, of Washingtor TOTAL—61. Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Cornwall, Craig, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 Cunningham, Davis, of DeKalb, Dent, deGraffenreid, Duke, Espy, Ferguson, Fletcher, Freeman, Gilmore, Glover, Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Greer, of Perry, Handley, Henderson, Hodges, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Kirkland, Knight, Ledbetter, Leigh, Locklin, Lowe, of Jefferson, Lowe, of Lawrence, McMillan (Baldwin), MacDonald, Malone, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller, of Wilcox, Morrisette, Murphree, Norman, Norwood, O’Neal, of Lauderdale, O’Neill (Jefferson), Opp, Palmer, Porter, Reynolds (Henry), Robinson, Rogers, of Sumter, Samford, Sanford, Selheimer, Smith, Mac A., Smith, Morgan M., Spragins, Stewart, Tayloe, Vaughan, Weakley, White, Williams, of Barbour, Williams, of Marengo, Winn, TOTAL—79. Banks, Burns, ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Fitts, Graham, of Montgomery, Solhe, Carmichael, of Colbert, King, StudSrd Coleman, o. Walker, Lomax Eyster, FhiUips, So the House refused to table the section of the Comm.ttee report. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I want to explain my vote. Objection was made. TTTF PRESIDENT— Objection is made. Except by unani- mouJ“ enfm™ are uA allowed to explain their votes. MR. SAMFORD—I now demand the previous question on the section. TPTE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman from Pike moves t e adop™ of fhf section as amended and demands 'h- Pf vous queS. The question is shall the mam question be put? On motion the main question was ordered, and a vote beine taken the section as amended was adopted. 724 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR PETTUS—I desire to give notice that I voted m the affirmative and on tomorrow I will move a reconsideration of the vote by which this section was adopted. MR. deGRAFFENREID — I voted for the adoption of the section and I move now to reconsider the vote by which it was adopted. MR PETTUS—I rise to a point of order. I have made the moticTn to reconsider and give notice that under the rules .t would go over until tomorrow. MR. deGRAFFENREID— But I make the motion now. MR PETTUS—And I make the point of order that the gen- tlem^n «nnot cut off my right to demand that reconsideration. MR HOWELL—I make the point that the delegate from Limestone voted in the minority and he can’t make this motion to reconsider. MR PETTUS—I voted in the affirmative on the final vote expressly for the purpose of a reconsideration and I gave notice that I would make that motion tomorrow. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is considering a point of or- der now. MR PETTUS—Under Rule 27, page 11, when a motion for reconsideration is decided, that decision shall not be reconsidered, and no question shall be twice reconsidered. A delegate—W hat part of the rule are you reading? MR PETTUS—I am reading the latter part of rule 27. I submit that the intention of that rule is to give a member the privilege of reconsidering any question on a succeeding day and ft is a violation of the spirit of that rule for any^t^^niber who voted in the affirmative to take this motion out of the mouth of a man who may have voted with the minority if he had voted his sent^i- ments, and call up the question at that time thereby cutting off the opportunity of the Convention to reconsider on the succeeding day. I make the point that the motion is out of order. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I think the motion is in order, but that it would go over until tomorrow. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair rules that the gentleman from Hale may make the motion to reconsider but without a suspension of the rules it would go over until tomorrow. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will now recognize the gen¬ tleman from Calhoun who rose to a point of order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 725 MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I withdraw my point of order. THK president—T he opinion of the Chair on a point of cuf read the next Section. The Clerk read as follows: cation, Attorney-General the'uni^^^^ States dustries, unless he have rSde^^^ State at least fW^yirfneJt preceding his election, and shall be at least 25 years old when elected. A/TT? totjES tMontsroniery)—That is the identical langjuage tSB'Sp SHSSvii: has'‘ar/des^e".o"a"m/nd this 1 will move .’he adoption of this Section. A/rr> rAA'TES T move to strike out the word State be ore .he “^ds^^Te^afi^^er^and ‘ Auditor.” We have done .ha. ,n all other portions of this report. MR TONES (Montgomery)—I hope the gentlenmn will with draw .L^ wfcan settfe that in the Comn,i..ee on Harmon.cs. MR. OATES—We can settle it just as well here. MR. JONES—If that is insisted on I desire to be heard on it. . MR OATES—Well, I decline to make a speech on it. I thought the Convention has acted on that heretofore. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Montgomery (Mr. Jones) desire to be heard on it? MR TONES (Montgomery)—Yes, sir. Wheri this matter of s.riking out .he j5^‘„Tudi“.orTnd on. Se°nc:.‘>o^‘h^^”n°SnJrh^ bama and we want to inspire pa far Consti- Tutr to raTstTte TrSsmer'rd State Auditor, than .o chop off 726 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS he “State” and simply say “Treasurer” and “Auditor.” That is the reason we are unwilling now to strike out that word. A vote being taken the amendment of the delegate from Montgomery (Mr. Oates) was lost. MR. CHAPMAN—I have an amendment. The amendment Avas read as follows: Amend Section 21 by striking out the word “twenty-five” in the fifth line, and inserting the word “thirty.” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move to lay that on the table, unless the gentleman desires to discuss it. A vote being taken the amendment was tabled, and a further vote being taken the Section was adopted. Section 22 was read as follows: Sec. 22. There shall be a great Seal of State, which shall be used officially by the Governor, and the Seal now in use shall con¬ tinue to be used until another has been adopted by the General Assembly. Said Seal shall be called The Great Seal of the State of Alabama. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—There is a substitute reported by the Committee to that Section. The Substitute was read as follows: Commemorative of the heroism of Emma Sansom the Great Seal of the State which shall be used officially by the Governor shall consist of the figure of an officer on horseback, fully armed, and a young woman seated behind him with her left hand pointing forward, and the legend “I will show you the way.” Said Seal shall be called the Great Seal of the State of Alabama. The Com¬ mittee recommend that Section 22 of the Ordinance creating and defining the Executive Department as reported by them be strick¬ en out and the substitute be adopted in lieu thereof. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—This substitute was the propo¬ sition offered by the gentleman from Montgomery (Mr. Sanford) and I desire on behalf of the Committee to yield to the senior member from Montgomery on this question. MR. SANFORD—Mr. President I thank the able, polite and chivalrous delegate from Montgomery for waiving his rights in my behalf. But the gratitude 1 might feel is greatly diminished by a sense of the responsibility that his politeness has imposed upon me. And the sense of the responsibility is somewhat intensified by the eager interest which I feel in this subject. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 727 Before as intelligent an audience as this Convention I hope I may be pardoned if I remind them of a few facts and for that purpose I ask their indulgence and patience. The Seal of a great State everywhere in Christendom is con¬ sidered the only means by which the sovereign power can make known its will and it is perfectly immaterial whether the Govern¬ ment be a republic, a despotism or a limited monarchy, it is the only means in which the sovereignty can express its desires or its purpose. We know that in England, whence we derive a great many of our institutions of liberty, that the Great Seal of Great Britain was changed upon every accession of a new sovereign, or upon every change of its arms, that the old seal was broken and the fragments were given to the Chancellor as his perquisites. Now, has Alabama any seal de jure? Has it ever had since 1865? What is the great seal of Alabama? May I take the privi¬ lege of reading the description of it by one of the most lettered and scholarly and patriotic gentlemen in this broad commonwealth. I refer to the distinguished Professor Wyman, of the State Uni¬ versity, who describes it in this language: “A bald-headed eagle—recognized as a bird of prey, ever since the days of the patient Job—a bald-headed eagle, with a cluster of sharp arrows clutched in one claw, tramping on the escutcheon of State. The eagle’s wings are uplifted, as if he were just hoping sweep down on the State Treasury! His neck is craned out to its full length, as if he were getting ready to bury his beak in the vitals of the body politic! This bald-headed eagle fitly represents the swarm of foul birds who came from the four ends of the United States and from Austria and Africa to loot and to devour the little substance that the impoverished people had remaining to them as the result of the downfall of the Southern Confederacy. But what is most striking and characteristic of all, the so-called bird of freedom bears in the beak a scroll on which is inscribed the car¬ pet-bagger’s favorite motto: “Here we rest!’’ All this is profoundly symbolical, it is true, but it is some¬ thing more—it is pretty nearly diabolical. Whether the fellow from Maine or Michigan—^his name, fortunately, has not come down—who devised this coat of arms was unconscious of travesty on the art of heraldry which he was inventing, or whether he was cunningly devising a piece of cruel waggery for the torture of an unoffending people, I do not know—and it makes no difference. The present Seal of State ought to be broken and thrown out on the ash pile, and the next General Assembly ought to appoint a commission to devise a new coat of arms for Alabama. How wonderfully correct is it in saying it represents nothing that is characteristic of Alabama! And his description of the in- 728 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS fluences that caused it to supersede the old Seal of the State is entirely accurtae. We know that from the 2nd of March, 1^7, that the people of this State for many years were under a military government o almost Ibso^utr despotism. We know that the Convention tha almost a ^ y ^ September was composed of pSoos Ito h^dto permanent Cornicle State It was composed of negroes. It was composed of foreign- erf «ome of whom owed their citizenship to having served in the armv and to having plundered our people with resolute rapacity. They Sde k. Now it was an old rule of a wise people that when- ihey mMe ^ ^ disreputable character, introduced a wise ifnSwfsh^to'gTvTany'S then seal which was placed upon us on the 29th of November, 1868 it would be well to discard it, because it is not the choice of t\ e neople of Alabama. Let us see with regard to that Some ot you Gentlemen took part in the proceedings of reconstruction. Yo were old Confederate soldiers. You were statesmen taking pa 1 ^>fr>rp the neoole in the great questions that agitated our countrj. You kn^;"pre"dL^^^^ of the men who imposed ^his travestv of a seal upon our people. It never was adopted, ihe very Constitution which that rabble pretended to ordain was voted down by the people of Alabama by a of ^ore ^han sev e tVimisand maioritv and was so reported by Cen. Meade ro tne Federal Government, but notwithstanding this fact noon us upon perjured testimony, such as that big swamp T owndes County was frozen over and thousands of voters patrio ^Thet ouroose^s could not get to the polls, which was as arrant L WsTho'Ld as » you were fo say that the Alabama R|vet were blocked up with icebergs in the month of June. Notwi s an i g AaffacMtTas placed upon us and with hot speed they had a Legislature to convene about the first of November following and thev adopted this seal which I utterly denounce and despise. It ,r:;;.s i^me if ever a people had the right to select their own seal. Alabama has, and should do so. But it may be said by some gentleman that the Convention of 1875 did not change it and that no One reason was that the Convention of 1875 was lim tea i time that it met almost in alarm, notwithstanding the gallantr> of many of its wise men, and it dispersed in a panic-dispersed ab¬ solute! J before the sheets forming the Constitution were fasten^ ?Ser in order to come within the time in which they were limited Therefore, it had no time to do it and since then the Leeislature seems not to have anybody to call attention to it unti 1894 when a bill creating a seal passed the ^ vote and was defeated in the Senate simply by want of time. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 729 , j tViat as we are here revising the Consti- It does seem to me that as ^ ^ tution there is no better time than now characteristic of our people. 1 Vins been proposed shows the purity of our "jrshL'wfr dirrce f“rrntooJVnner»ho;e this Convention wii. adopt the seal which has been presented. The seal otiginally P-'oP.of ^ jas^ Jhe ^gutej ^a s^oldier clad m the uniform of C pointing forward, - S E ^dS a„^, nttr^t X“r T^rel fore it would well represent us. And pray who -s tWs young of a farmer in Cherokee y and this young: woman ^“"•’'sisS“e”oTof to sw‘£y Js through so Tan; y?ars of hardship and peril in many parts of the world. TJhL^tatteTofhorlcs^flet’fere “heard appJotSttag^Ga/s- den.^ A young girl not oW” ShfradTust“ arrived at the door of her home ^ troops endeavored to seize her 1™” ® Unde" TheTr officer's command toy desisted, and they paSed on. Within a very short time afterwards came ho'; Pur- Sit Bedford Forrest, hnown the World^ov^er^ as^ the ^w.rard^__^ the ofVeir modest building he asked, “Is woman standing m “9 , ^ . j-p pan nnv one show me how I there a ford in this ««hbo.hood? Can any can get across ‘he i" {"ont of him. The young bers of the bridge over Black C , where is any *T“” yiifm; her"saM7“My fo'ns me ta'the Ly." and the girl Sd”; “fwiirshow you the wa^”„ Th-J- Forrem said will have a horse saddled for y » _ , ^ behind him down a little brook until they were h’' to enemj, upon them, and then she dismou ^ ^ willing to take a lady who placed her behind him and said: for a guide, but not as a V^east wwks^^^S ^hen and went on necessarv he looked around he discovered ufg bak He said to her; “Why dS"yfu7oTif>“ stetaid^"‘l was afraid you would be shot 730 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and I wished to be near you.” Then they retired. He had dis¬ covered everything he desired to know, he marched his troops across the ford, pursued the enemy, brought them to bay near Turkey Town and there Colonel Streight surrendered to him two regiments from Indiana, one from Ohio, one from Illinois, and 200 renegades from the mountains who had joined the marauders and Forrest thereby saved Rome. If other people have cherished the heroic deeds of men apd women and other states and countries have been immortalized by the splendid achievements of their citizens, why should not Alabama do the same thing in regard to her own immortal daugh¬ ter? I remember an instance of patriotism, and if you will pardon me, I will relate it. There is a story of a young Austrian girl who went to Switzerland for the purpose of earning a livelihood by daily labor. She was skilled in the management of cattle, and she attended the pasture. Being there she discovered on one oc¬ casion that the Swiss became gloomy, that they ceased to engage in their business, that the women tattled no more upon neighbor¬ hood affairs but gathered around the men quietly together. She discovered that there was a conspiracy to take Bregenz, her native town. Thereupon, when the people had retired she took from her employer’s stable a splendid white animal and rode during the night to Bregenz, rode so rapidly that the wind did not surpass her in her speed. She arrived at the banks of the Rhine; the horse pausedshe lashed him; he plunged into the dark waters and swam to the opposite bank. Ascending it she saw the lights of her native town and rapidly rode to its gates. She gave the alarm and the soldiers came to ask the cause of the disturbance and she told them what she had discovered. The soldiers took their positions, the people were aroused and when the enemy ar¬ rived at dawn next day they found the city entirely prepared to receive the assault; and from that day for more than three hundred years as the Sentinel paces his solitary rounds on the ramparts, he calls the hours of the night: “9 o’clock and all’s well;” “10 o’clock and all’s well;” “11 o’clock and all’s well,” and when 12 o’clock strikes and midnight pauses in the sky he shouts the young woman’s name, and the mountains echo it back. And on the walls of Bregenz is the faded image of a horse exhausted by his flight and a young woman standing by his side. Was th^re ever any¬ thing more splendid in all history save that instance of heroism in Cherokee County. That young woman had all the purity of the Austrian maiden. She had more than her heroism, she was everything that our people can desire, noble and patriotic, I might say chivalrous. I remember another instance, and pardon me for telling it. When the people of Etruria sought to re-establish the throne of Tarquin, Porsenna organized a large army and had beaten the Roman armies opposed to them until they had reached the very CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 731 walls of Rome. They had captured on their way or had had sent to them as a hostage, a young woman. While the army held her she made her escape and when they beheld her she was in full flight. She had mounted on a horse and when she reached the Tiber she plunged in and when cruel Porsenna beheld that, on the eve of capturing Rome he paused and said, people that show such courage I desire for my friends,” and they made a treaty of peace. If these people whom Forrest was pursuing had been as magnanimous they, too, would have retired and given peace and respect to the magnificent courage of our manhood and the gallant devotion of our women. Afterwards in Rome they erected a statute of Cloelia mounted on horseback and there it stood for hundreds and hundreds of years, typifying the patriotism and courage of that young maiden. She had saved Rome. Emma Sansom saved the Rome of modern times. There we had military stores. There we had foundries, there we had pro¬ visions, there we had all that was necessary to supply our army and this young woman’s courage enabled Forrest with five hundred men to capture a greatly superior force. In as much as that act is peculiar to Alabama, and as no¬ where else was there such an occurrence, it seems to me that we can but honor her by saying that Alabama remembers her and will immortalize that event. Alabama will put it on the seal of the State so that when her laws are attested to go abroad there will stand the fact of this officer and young woman riding into the blaze of battle, and she saying to him, ‘T will show you the way.” What a magnificent inscription for a seal are those words. Alabama stands first in Constitutional Conventions, first in politi¬ cal and religious assemblages and first in your educational insti¬ tutions and when she is called she can say, ‘T will show you the way.” I will show you the way to a free government. I will show you way to be prosperous. I will show you how to make a people contented, industrious, peaceable. I will show you the way to honor. I will lead the way to glory. And yet, we say we ought not to substitute this for the miserable imita¬ tion of what? They call it an eagle. It is more like the last of a flock of carrion crows that fattened upon the carcass of Alabama when she lay dead and rotting under reconstruction acts infamous beyond anything that has ever marred the statutes of our country. When our people were all full of sorrow and gloom and melan¬ choly, when it seemed that the earth itself under the domination of despots and their system of legislation had slipped from the hands of God and was darkling down to hell. So I say to you, my countrymen, this last remnant of carpetbag rule should be swept away by the adoption of this seal. MR. MARTIN—I rise to favor the adoption of the report of the committee in this matter. 732 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS When clouds of sorrow gathered over this country m years gone by and the war cry of liberty rang throughout the land, the men of this State obeyed the call of Alabama '^‘^h a vl'n J came from the mountains and the valleys from the hills and the plains, from city and from hamlet. They came with their fortunes ?nd their splendid young manhood and laid their all upon the altar of their country. I see before me men who gave four of the best years 9 ^ ^heir lives to the service of their country. They were tested through all the trying vicissitudes of war and then were allowed to return to their people and families for which we are all profoundly fate¬ ful But many of their comrades were not so fortunate. They died in the crowded hospital, in the fever stricken camp, and thousands of them went down to death upon the battle. When Alabama had struck her last effectual blow and would do no more, you then grounded your arms and turned your weary faces toward your long deserted homes and with sad hearts you started in the affairs of civil life. Your hearts were sad, sad because the flag you had followed so long and loved so well was furled and furled forever, sad because the cause you so honestly believed in and for which you had made so many sacrifices lyas dead and dead forever. Sad, oh, how sad, because you were leaving so many of your comrades behind you. You had buried them o the hills and in the valleys and along the shores and the banks of deep rolling' water. Mr. President, our men were brave. They were self-sacn- ficing and devoted, but they were no more brave and Patriotic than^he women of Alabama. I stand here today to declare that the brightest pages of America’s history will be those recording the heroic deeds and patriotic devotion of the women of the South all through those years of darkness and of blood and during the years immediately following the surrender. Look at them, what was it they did? They rnade every sacri¬ fice that could be made. They, women who had been reared m luxury and in ease, who had never done a day s work their livt,s, who were as fair and tender as the flowers that bloomed and blos¬ somed around their Southern homes when the occasion deniand- ed went forth and with their untrained hands worked by night and by day making clothing to protect the soldier from the win¬ ter’s cold and the Summer’s burning sun. They took the jewelry from their persons and converted it into money in OTder to supply the men at the front with the comforts of life They took the carpets from their floors and weaved them into blankets in order to protect the soldier in his winter quarters. Ah, and when he was sick like a ministering angel they hovered around his cot. The hour for adjournment had almost been reached. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 733 MR. JACKSON—I move that the rules be suspended and that the Convention continue in session until the pending section is disposed of. MR. SAMFORD—I move to amend that by permitting the gentleman who is so eloquently addressing the Convention be permitted to complete his speech. A vote being taken the rules were suspended and the delegate proceeded. MR. MARTIN—I say, Mr. President, •when he was sick and wounded, she hovered around his cot, ministering to his wants and nursed him back to strength and health, and blessed him with her prayers and sent him on to the service of his country. She did more than that, Mr. President, she gave to Alabama the husband of her love, the father of her children. She gave to Alabama the young and noble boy upon whom she expected to rely in the years of her infirmities and to whom she looked for support and defense when she could not provide for herself. Ah. yes, and God bless them, hundreds of them all over this land, when reduced to the necessity, women who had been reared in luxury and in ease, went forth to the fields m the winter s cold and in the summer’s sun and with their own blistered and swollen hands worked from morn till night to raise a few bushels of corn and potatoes to sustain their helpless children while their hus¬ bands were at the front fighting Alabama s battles or filling un¬ marked soldier’s graves. (Applause.) And when you got home from the war, what did you see. Devastation and ruin on every hand. Your premises were in a state of decay, your gin-houses and your barns were rotting down. Your fences were gone, your fields were devastated or grown up in brush and briar. In many instances your dwellings were leveled to the ground. Standing knee-deep in the poverty and ashes of your ruined fortunes your hearts heavy, despair had its spell upon you and you were almost disposed to give up and make no more effort. At that critical moment a gentle hand was laid in yours and a sweet and encouraging voice was heard to whisper in your ears “Come on, I will show you the way.’’ Under the guidance of that hand, under the inspiration of that loving voice, the manhood of this State shook off its lethargy, moved to the front and m the course of a few years Alabama gloriously rose from the ashes of her poverty and today stands in the front rank of States. And as she stands there ready to measure arms with any of her sister States in generous rivalry, that same unerring hand is seen Point¬ ing, that same sweet voice is heard whispering. Move on, I will show you the way.” 734 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS And now, Mr. President I stand here today in the shadow of that monument out yonder, erected as it was by woman’s love and woman’s patriotism, here is this historic hall of g-rand and sacred memory, here in this old Capitol Building today, let the roll be called while the delegates of this Convention vote dn hum¬ ble appreciation of the high esteem in which they hold the patriotic women of Alabama by perpetuating the glorious deeds of one of their sisters, Emma Sansom of Northeast Alabama, the brave girl of Cherokee, standing under fire of shot and shell with a steady hand pointing to the swollen waters of Black Creek and saying to the dauntless and peerless Forrest, “Move on, I will show you the way.” Let us adopt this seal proposed as it is by one of Alabama’s most scholarly gentlemen, most proud and patriotic citizens, John W. A. Sanford of Montgomery. MR. ROBINSON—I have a substitute which I will ask to be read so that it can be printed. THE PRESIDENT—Unless there is objection the Secretary will read it. The amendment was read as follows: “Substitute for the amendment to Section 22 reported by the Committee on Executive Department, ‘Commemorative of the origin of the name of the State of Alabama the Great Seal of the State which shall be used officially by the Governor shall consist of the figure of an Indian Chief followed by a small band of war¬ riors, who in crossing a beautiful meadow, as he approaches the bank of a river, thrusts his spear into the earth, with the words inscribed on the scroll above his head, ‘Here we rest.’ The said Seal shall be called the Great Seal of Alabama.” THE PRESIDENT—The Chair advises the delegates that we are in receipt of a telegram from the Constitutional Conven¬ tion of Virginia, which I will read: To the President and Delegates of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Alabama: The Commonwealth of Virginia, through her representatives in Conven¬ tion assembled, sends cordial greetings to the President and members of the Constitutional Convention of Alabama now sitting at Montgomery. Alabama and Virginia have long been bound together by the strongest and closest ties of interest and affection. The people of the two common¬ wealths are animated by the same hopes, the same aspirations. In acknowledging the courtesy of your message, we beg to express the earnest hope that in the wise and just determination of the momentous questions now under consideration, we may not only establish the peace and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 735 prosperity of our respective States, but contribute to the general welfare of our common country and the good of mankind, thus justifying the con¬ fidence of our citizens and the reasonable hopes of our countrymen. JOHN GOODE, President. MR. REESE—I move that that be spread on the Journal of this House. A vote being- taken the motion -was carried and the Conven¬ tion then adjourned. CORRECTIONS Ordinance 389 above printed should be as follows: Ordinance No. 389, by Mr. O’Neill of Jefferson: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That no agent of any person, firm or corporation, whose place of business is located in this State, shall be charged license tax by any city, town or municipal corporation in the State of Ala¬ bama, to which said agent may come, when said person, firm or corporation is engaged in soliciting business in towns to which said agent comes in cases where it would be unlawful under the inter-State commerce law, if said agent or drummer represented a person, firm or corporation doing business out of the State. See also remarks of Mr. Robinson and Mr. Graham at be¬ ginning of this days report. TWENTY-FIFTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Thursday, June 20, 1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Murphy, as follows: O Lord and Judge and Father of us all, whom to know is life eternal, and to serve whom is to be free indeed, keep us, we beseech Thee, under the shadow of Thine hand and within the pathways of Thy will. Grant to us the counsels of wisdom and the gifts of the teachable, and the pure, that with one mind we may promote the prosperity and happiness of the people, and that with one heart we may broaden the heritage of order and of jus¬ tice. Bring from the humble store of the service of our days some treasure of nobility and worth, that Thy name may be glorified 736 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and that the land may find honor and delight. Increase among the people that affection for the sanctions of law, and that in¬ stinctive reverence for public order, which may extend the se¬ curity and dignity of the State, and may fulfill, in sobriety and equity, the meaning of its Constitution. To all within this House who bear the confidences and com¬ missions of the people, grant the wisdom to understand and the will to do. If there be any man among us in sickness of body or distress of mind, grant, O God, deliverance and peace and light. Within the homes of all who serve Thee here, bring the tender providences of Thy grace and joy. In these, the days of our la¬ bor, and in the last hour, “when the busy world is hushed and the fever of our life is over and our work is done,” give us Thy hand, O God, to lead and to sustain! We ask it for Thy love’s sake, in Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. Upon a call of the roll, one hundred and forty delegates re¬ sponded. MR. WADDELL—I move a suspension of the rules and that we dispense with the regular order, and proceed with the con¬ sideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment. THE PRESIDENT—The next regular order is the report of the Committee on the Journal. Does the gentleman desire to dispense with that? MR. WADDELL—No, sir. The report of the Committee on Journal was read, stating that the Journal for the twenty-fourth day had been examined by the Committee and found to be correct. The report was adopted. MR. PETTUS—I gave notice yesterday that I would move a reconsideration of the vote by which Section twenty of the re¬ port of the Committee on Executive Department was adopted. I now move, Mr. President, to reconsider the vote by which Sec¬ tion twenty was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state that the motion to reconsider is pending for the consideration of the Convention at the time. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I rise to a point of order, Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 737 MR. JONES (Montgomery) ■— And that is the gentleman from Limestone is not in a position to make such a motion. He voted as he says himself, and as the record shows, in the affir¬ mative, but the affirmative did not prevail, and as I understand it no one can make a motion to reconsider unless he voted with the prevailing side. MR. PETTUS—In regard to the point of order. I would like to state to the gentleman from Montgomery that on the final vote for the adoption of the Section I voted in the affirmative and the affirmative won and the Section was adopted. MR. JONES' (Montgomery)—If the gentleman says that is the fact I accept it. MR. PETTUS—I gave notice of that on yesterday. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman gave notice yesterday that he voted with the prevailing side, and that he would move to reconsider. MR. PETTUS—I have no speech to make on the subject. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Limestone will suspend a moment. MR. SANDERS—I ask the gentleman to suspend a moment and ask unanimous consent to introduce a short resolution. MR. PETTUS—Without yielding the floor, I withdraw for that purpose. There being no objection, the resolution was read. Resolution No. 171, by Mr. Sanders of Limestone: Resolved, That this Convention extend hearty greeting to the Alabama Press Association, now in session in Montgomery, and hereby expresses its appreciation of the efforts which the State press have constantly put forth in behalf of a Constitutional Con¬ vention in Alabama. We realize that it is through the instru¬ mentality of the press, county, weekly and daily, that we shall be able to reach the people, and that the future political destiny of Alabama is largely in the hands of the newspapers of the State. We hereby express the hope that the labors of this Convention shall be so characterized by wisdom and courage as to command the unqualified endorsement and support of the press of Alabama. MR. SANDERS—In order to put that resolution upon its immediate passage, I move a suspension of the rules. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I second the motion. MR. BURNS—I have a substitute. 738 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. LOMAX—Pending that motion, I rise to a question of privilege. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of privilege. MR. LOMAX—Merely for the purpose of having a correc¬ tion made of a misprint in the proceedings of the twenty-third day. In the ordinance offered by me on the twenty-third day of the Convention in reference to the University, the word “institu¬ tion” is substituted for the word “instruction,” which destroys the sense of the ordinance. I desire to ask that it be corrected, so as to make the ordinance read; “That the Board of Trustees may if they deem proper, for the best interests of said university, abolish the military system of said institution, and reduce said system to a department of instruction, instead of “institution,” as it is printed. MR. GREER (Perry)—I wish to enter an objection to the consideration of the resolution which has just been read. This body yesterday— THE PRESIDENT—^The gentleman will state that the mo¬ tion to suspend the rules is not debatable. MR. GREER—I would ask that the Convention allow n^e just a few words on that. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman asks unanimous con¬ sent to make a statement to the Convention, is there objection? Objection was made. Upon a vote the rules were suspended. MR. BURNS—I now beg leave to offer my substitute. I was opposed to having the rules suspended, but if they are suspended, I desire to offer a substitute. Substitute by Mr. Burns of Dallas; Resolved that this convention recognizes and appreciates the ability, loyalty, and influence of the Press of Alabama. That these champions of free speech and religious liberty in this State are hereby extended the courtesies of the floor. MR. GREER—Mr. President, I simply wish to state that the same resolutions were offered by me on yesterday, and for this supreme body to rescind its action of yesterday and call it up again today I do not think is right. Now Mr. President, fHe members of the Press have already been extended the privileges of the offices of the Governor, the Secretary of State, State Treas¬ urer, and other officers. Therefore, inasmuch as this convention acted yesterday on this resolution, I do not believe, that it would CONSTittJTlOKAI, GONVENTtON. 1901 739 be to the interest of this convention to call up this thing: ajjain. Therefwe I am not in favor of airing this any more than it has already been aired. While it was received as a matter of levity, the Press Association has taken it seriously, and if we take up this matter now and air it again, by a representative body of 155 men in the State of Alabama, it is a reflection on them. Therefore I move to table both of these resolutions. THE PRESIDENT^The gentleman moves that the' original resolution and the substitute be laid on the table. MR. PETTUS—I call for a division of the question. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the motion relates to both resolutions and there is nothing that is divisible. MR. JENKINS—I would ask the gentleman from Perry to withdraw the motion a moment. THE PRESIDENT—The motion of the delegate from Lime¬ stone was withdrawn. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a question of parliamentary inquiry. Is it not possible to have a^ division, so as to vote on the motion to table the substitute? THE PRESIDENT—Not if the gentleman makes his mo¬ tion relate to bqth: "^It is optional with him as to the scope he will give his motion. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I hope that the gentleman from Perry will withdraw his motion. This convention understands the resolution. It is not the purpose or desire of this convention I know to insult the Press of Alabama, and I see no harm in pass¬ ing the resolution offered here this morning. The question was put on the motion to table, and the vote taken. MR. GREER—I demand a yea and nay vote. MR. WHITE—^That is too late Mr. President. I make the point of order that it is too late, as the vote has been announced. THE PRESIDENT—The result of the vote had not been an¬ nounced on the viva voce vote. As many as favor the call for an aye and no vote will rise. The call for an aye and no vote was not sustained by the requisite number rising. MR. SANDERS—I move to table the substitute. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has not announced the re¬ sult of the vote on the motion made by the gentleman from Perry. 740 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS It seems to the Chair that the noes have it; the noes have it, and the convention refuses to lay the resolution upon the table. The gentleman from Limestone moves to lay the substitute upon the table. MR. DUKE—I ask that the substitute be read. The substitute was read again. MR. GREER—I have just learned that the Committee to which that was referred on yesterday is ready to make its re¬ port, and we may now take up that report. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Limestone to table the substitute of the gentle¬ man from Dallas. The motion was carried. THE PRESIDENT — The question recurs on the original resolution. MR. BURNETT—I offer an amendment to the resolution. The amendment was read as follows: Amend by striking out all after the words “we hereby express the hope.” MR. BURNETT—I do not think that this convention ought to blow its own horn, and therefore I move to strike out all ex¬ pressing the hope as to what we may do, and let the press and the people consider what we may do, without our expressing any hope, and for that reason I offer the amendment. A vote being taken, a division was called for. MR. GREER (During the voting)—I ask that we hear from the committee, to which this was referred on yesterday. THE PRESIDENT—The report of the Committee is not in order at this time, the Chair will state to the gentleman from Perry. The amendment of the delegate from Conecuh was lost. MR. SANDERS—I call for the previous question. The main question was ordered and upon a further vote the resolution offered by the delegate from Limestone (Mr. Sanders) was adopted. MR. PETTUS—I have not any lengthy speech to make on this proposition, Mr. President, but in regard to the motion to reconsider the vote by which Section 20 was adopted, I will state I have just been informed that the Committee on Legislative De- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 741 partment will probably report a section makings the sessions and elections of the Legislature quadrennial, thus doubling the time for which Representatives are elected at present, and I submit that with that innovation in the Constitution it is a stronger reason why we should no make any member of the Legislature ineligible to appointment to any office in this State, other than the one to which he is elected by the people. I voted, Mr. President, with the Committee on the proposition to make the Governor of the State of Alabama ineligible to the office of United States Senator or to succeed himself, because I realize that perhaps it was wise to go to a certain extent in hedging against the frailty of human nature, and I knew that the office of Governor of the State of Alabama, being the highest in the gift of the State, was sufficient to attract the best talent in the State, for is own sake and for the fame that holding the office would bring to any man. That amendment as reported by the Committee in substance was adopt¬ ed and the Convention by that Section has removed from the Gov¬ ernor of Alabama the temptation to abuse his power, and the patronage that might be at his disposal in appointing the mem¬ bers in the General Assembly to any office, and since the tempta¬ tion has been removed from the Governor, if we get a good man, as we shall, in the office of Governor, the only ambition which he can have and from which he can hope to gain any reward is to make a good, clean record in the gubernatorial chair, and while I realize the importance of the independence of the three co-or¬ dinate branches of the State Government, I submit where the Governor is actuated by high and patriotic motives, it is not al¬ together unwise for him to have some influence in the halls of legislation. I was willing to go with the Committee that far into the land of Eutopia, to make the Governor ineligible to succeed himself and to make him ineligible to the United States Senate. It is a matter of common knowledge that the office of Represent¬ ative in the General Assembly of Alabama is not an office which is sufficiently attractive in itself or the emoluments of which are sufficiently great—it is not so attractive to the generality of man¬ kind that it is liable to draw the very best talent in the State. It is true, good men have served in the General Assembly, in the past, and will in the future, from motives of patriotism, but in this ma¬ terial age men look to other motives than motives of unselfish patriotism, and I submit if we make the term four years, and ab¬ solutely disqualify him during that time, to disqualify him from any office that becomes vacant during his term, it will be a serious drawback to getting good men in the Legislature, and I submit we will not get as good men in the Legislature as we have in the past under such a condition of affairs as that. It will not be a man getting into politics to go to the Legislature, but retiring him from politics, and for these reasons, believing that having removed the temptation from the Governor to abuse his patronage that the influence he will exercise will be entirely salutary I move a re¬ consideration of the question. 742 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. OATES—I desire to consume a few minutes time in calling the attention of the Convention to reasons for the mo¬ tion made by the delegate from Limestone (Pettus) to recon¬ sider the vote by which the provision in the report of the Execu¬ tive Department touching this subject was adopted. If a recol¬ lect correctly that prohibits the Governor from appointing any member of the General Assembly during his term. What I wish to impress is, that it seems to me that that is too narrow. The provision in the present Constitution—it has been in part subject to abuse, and hence the necessity for amending it — it reads: “No Senator or Representative shall, during the term for which he is elected, be appointed to any civil office of profit under this State, which shall have been created, or the emoluments of which shall have been increased during such term, except such offices as may be filled by election of the people.” I confess that this was not perfectly clear to me until studied and discussed, though it has been in the Constitution of Alabama probably ever since we had a Constitution. As I learn the complaints made was in addition to cases that have come before the courts, for instance, the Montgomery case and Ihe Porter case, with which lawyers are all familiar, but later and during the General Assemblies be¬ fore this last, the then Governor appointed a member to a military office, and some complaint was made about it, and it was sup¬ posed that it was really contrary to this provision.^ If geritle- men will read it they will see it was not, because “military” is not in it, it says “to any civil office which has been created, or the emoluments of which have been increased.” Now the amend¬ ment which the Committee on Legislative Department deemed necessary to this to operate in the future was simply to incor¬ porate in it after the word civil, “military,” “civil or military of¬ fice of profit.” With that amendment in it it seems to me that it is complete and needs no further change. Now let us look fur¬ ther. First, during the term for which a gentleman is elected to the Legislature, in the House, he is ineligible to be appointed either by the action of the General Assembly or by the Governor. For instance, in the Montgomery case, and in the Porter case, too, they were elected by the Legislature of which they were members, the office having been created, and that was, in the language of the Constitution, an appointment. Now, sir, these last words: “Except such offices as may be filled by election of the people” presents this kind of a case: Sup¬ pose the Governor should see proper in the event of the death of a Circuit Judge an office not cieated by the Legislature of which the gentleman tendered the appointment was a member at all, and the emoluments of that office not increased by that legisla¬ ture, and the Governor should think that he found among the members a very suitable man to appoint, a judge, for instance to that office. He could appoint him because that is an office filled by an election of the people, and it cannot be said that this gives CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 743 the Governor an undue power, or should unduly influence him. If he finds a member of the legislature the best man to fill such an office as that, why deny him that power? It has never been done in the history of the State. This clause has remained all the time, and the only complaint that I have ever heard made about it was in its supposed violation by the appointment of a gentleman to a military office, a member of the legislature, when that was not excluded by the provisions of the Constitution. Now with that amendment, by inserting that word, isn’t it wise to retain in the Constitution a clause which has been in it from the beginning or shall this Convention take away from the Governor the right to appoint any member of the legislature to any office? I think it ought to be retained with the amendment, and for these reasons. I am in favor of reconsidering the vote by which this section of the report of the Committee on Executive Department was adopt¬ ed yesterday and to re-enact. I don’t care, although this belongs to the Legislative Department, I care nothing about that, I just as leave it was put in the Executive Department. What I want is to aid what little I can in making a good and proper Consti¬ tution and I do not think it necessary to reach out and put in such a sweeping provision as that reported by the Committee and which has been adopted by this Convention, and therefore I am in favor of reconsidering it with a view of re-enacting this provision with that single word of amendment in it. MR. SENTELL—I hope the members of this Convention will decide to reconsider the vote by which this matter was passed on yesterday. It seems to me that in this matter we have gone too far. To say that members of the legislature shall not be ap¬ pointed to any office during the entire term for which they have been elected, seems to be going entirely too far. Mr. President, it often happens that a man is elected to the legislature over his protest, he may not desire the place, and yet his people will elect him to the position now, under the present section of the Consti¬ tution if he is so elected, although he may resign at once, during the entire term of his office he could not be appointed to any of¬ fice by the Governor. I am sure that many who voted for this measure have not fully and carefully considered it. Again, Mr. President, it often happens that a member of the legislature may desire an appointment, and that after he has served out his fifty days. Now I can see no reason in the world why he should be prohibited from accepting an appointment to an office after he has served out his fifty days, and there is no reason for their being any influence brought to bear for any improper action. MR. OATES—I would like to ask my friend—even then he would not be eligible to appointment until the term for which he has been elected has expired. MR. SENTELL—^A case in point has been mentioned to me since we have been discussing this question. The present legis- 744 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS lature has served out the fifty days and the members of th'at legislature are still members for over a year to come, and yet if a vacancy should happen in their County, although every man in the County should petition the Governor for one of those men to be appointed to that place, under the Constitution he could not be appointed. It goes further, it thwarts the will of the peo¬ ple, even if they want it he cannot be appointed by the Governor under this Constitution. MR. OATES—I think your statement is a little too broad. Isn’t it confined to offices which have been created or the emolu¬ ments have been increased? MR. SENTELL—I was referring to the new section that has been adopted. Then there is another consideration. If these extremes are resorted to, if we carry this section to this extreme, I am afraid we will create a disrespect for the Constitution among a great many people of this State. There should be a good rea¬ son for making every change, and unless we have a good reason for making a change it seems to me we should retain what we have of the present Constitution, and for these reasons I hope that the members of this Convention will reconsider the Article passed yesterday. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, in behalf of the Committee, I desire to say a few words. The only new argument which has been made is one based on a supposition as to what the Committee on Legislative Department will recommend, and the argument presupposes that the Convention will adopt it. It pre¬ supposes that we are going to make members of the legislature for four years, and not for two years. It is with great reluctance that I venture to differ on any question, from the policy put forth by the Committee on Legislative Department; but I do not think I am a bold prophet in saying this Convention will elect members of the legislature for four years instead of two years. All the arguments that have been made, if you run through them to a logical end, come to this proposition, that there might be some hard cases and therefore the people ought never to limit themselves. This principle of “lead us not into temptation,” is not put forth for the first time in this section. It comes from much higher and mightier sources. It may surprise some mem¬ bers to know that as far back as 1819 our forefathers declared in express words against a third term, for the Governor of Ala¬ bama. They said that he should not serve more than four years in any six years. Yesterday my good friends from Bibb, and my good friend from Dallas, in a gentle way, rather lectured me for raking up the embers of past political bitterness. My offense, Mr. President, was that I stated truly notorious and open facts in the history of this State. My God, Mr. President, has it come to such a pass that a member of this Convention cannot allude to an CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 745 historical fact, that is true, without beings charg^ed with dig^gfing;- up the embers of some buried strife? I trust that in the illustra¬ tions in support of propositions of the committee, I have tempered my words with deliberation, and that I have not set down aug^ht in malice; but there are times when we must call a spade a spade. Now my distinguished friend from Montgomery (Mr. Oates) said that he never heard of but one objection, instance of the ap- ])ointing ])ower in this respect, and at the risk of bringing down upon my head some more censure, I will tell him that it was in my mind, and in the minds of thousands of people in Alabama that in a session of the Legislature in the not very remote past, that an Executive appointed three members, for the first time in the history of the State, from the floor of the two Houses. MR. OATES—I want to disclaim that I ever did propose to bring down anything upon the head of my friend, the delegate from Montgomery. MR. JONES—I had no reference in the world to my friend —and I mean it when I use the word friend—I had no reference to him. I make no complaint because the gentlemen who gave the lecture were my friends. I merely say it was not well found¬ ed. The whole question, Mr. President, is this: We have already said that the Governor was human; that he might be tempted by the possession of certain powers to do things that were not for the good of the State. The committee were not dealing with the Governor’s office alone, we were trying conscientiously it may be mistakenly, to reach human nature wLerever we found it. Don’t we all know that the independence of members of the Gen¬ eral Assembly is often entirely killed by the consideration they think some office is in sight, and by supporting the measures of the Executive—-it may be against their better judgment—they may ingratiate themselves in his favor, and thereby secure an office? Don’t we all know it? Now it is said, Mr. President, that good men will not go to the Legislature of Alabama if you shut them out, not from all offices, but from all appointments by the Governor for the term of two years. They say it is hard enough now to get good men. Mr. President, I do not fall in with the general censure of Legislatures. I never saw one that was quite as black as it was painted. I have seen assemblies made up in¬ dividually of men for a majority of whom I had the most pro¬ found respect, yet when they got under this, the subtle influence, the hypnotism of the appointing power, they did things which al¬ most universally met with disapproval. I venture to make this suggestion : There will be less difficulty in getting good men to go to the Legislature when the scramble for the office ceases, and when it is not confined to men who want to go there because it may give them a leverage on the office of Probate Judge or So¬ licitor or something else. I may be pardoned for repeating a con¬ versation, which illustrates the position which I maintain, with 746 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS one of the greatest jurists that ever adorned the Bench of Ala¬ bama or elsewhere in this Union—Chief Justice George W. Stone. In the bitterness which prevailed at times in 1892, some of us thought perhaps if we could remove from the field of strife the two candidates whose claims then engrossed the attention of the people of Alabama, it might tend to the public good. With that purpose I was in hearty sympathy. I had the honor to call on Judge George W. Stone for we believed if that great and good man could be induced to take the office of Governor that per¬ haps it would save much bitterness and strife which we desired to avert. He turned to me—because he regarded me rather as a son than a grown man—and said: ''My son, do you forget the Constitution of the State?'’ I said I had overlooked it. Read this—and he pointed out the section in the Constitution which made a Judge ineligible for any other than a judicial office during the term for which he was elected. I remarked that in this in¬ stance, at least, it was a misfortune that there was such a provi¬ sion in the Constitution, and I shall always remember his answer: '^No, sir; it is a wise provision. It has done more to elevate the bench in Alabama and in other States where there is such a pro¬ vision, than all the other causes combined, because it removes those who have the judicial power from temptation." Now we say, Mr, President, remove those who have the legislative power from temptation. Let them come up here to legislate solely for the good of Alabama. If they do that, and are "disfranchised," as they call it, for two years, the plaudits of the people will await them for unselfish service; and in the end they will be thrice re¬ paid for the temporary disfranchisement. The people seldom f^jl to promote a faithful and unselfish public servant. These are the reasons, Mr. President, why the committee felt compelled to urge upon this House that the section as adopted stand. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—For the first time, Mr. Presi¬ dent, in the discussion of questions before this body, I beg the indulgence of the Convention for a few words against reconsid¬ eration of this proposition. I think that I can mention one fact which has been overlooked by the members of this Convention. When a man becomes a candidate for the Legislature and is elect¬ ed by the people, there is an implied contract of employment and service, and the member of the Legislature has no right upon his part to break that contract and to enter other employment, ex* cept by the wishes and the will of the people. Gentlemen of the Convention, when a member of the Legislature is appointed from his position to some higher office, at that time he leaves his peo¬ ple without a representative in the General Assembly, and there can be no successor under the present Constitution, except by an election of the people, and at great expense to the people. 1 want to say further, Mr. President, that it is a violation of good faith as between employer and employe. If a man comes to the Legislature sorely for the purpose that he may reach some high- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 747 er position, he ought to put his people on notice before he comes, that they may seek out some one that will stay with them and serve them through the time for which they elect him. If I may be pardoned the expression, I believe that a member of the Leg¬ islature should, for thd time being, take down his lightning-rod. If he does not care to do it, then let him stay at home and keep it up with the hope that he may receive some appointment to a higher position. It is not merely between the Governor and the members of the Legislature—I waive that point as having been sufficiently and earnestly urged, and rely solely upon the ques¬ tion of good faith between the representative and the people who have elected him. I do not lay any stress upon the point raised by the gentleman from Crenshaw (Mr. Sentell) of conscript¬ ing members for the Legislature. There has not been many in the past; there are not likely to be many in the future; take away the hope of reward, and the hope of promotion by appointment, and let a man become a candidate for the Legislature solely up¬ on the proposition that he is the man that the people want, and that he is a man loyal and patriotic enough to stay by the post to which he has been called and render the people patriotic and honorable service, based upon the hope of approval by his con¬ stituency at home, and not upon the hope that he may be ap¬ pointed to some higher position. I hope that this Conventiqn will refuse to reconsider what I think to be one of its best acts since it has been in session. MR. REESE—-The stenographic report of yesterday’s pro¬ ceedings correctly shows, I suppose, some remarks made on the floor, which might be construed as a reflection upon the ability and work of my distinguished colleagues from Dallas. These re¬ marks were made by me. I did not mean to say that Dallas had not selected her delegates from among her most able and trusted sons. These gentlemen have, in the highest degree, the trust and the confidence of their people, and our people have gladly availed themselves of their services whenever offered. Mr. President, I feel hurt that my distinguished friend from Montgomery should have thought that I endeavored to lecture him. Why, my admiration and affection for the gentleman would have precluded such a course, and I candidly say that while the remarks were being made the gentleman was not in my mind at all. I feel sorry for it, because I appreciate and admire the gen¬ tleman too much to criticise anything that he should say. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I have only to say that I take no offense at the criticism, and I am sorry if my friend from Dal¬ las thought I displayed any heat. There is no man on the floor for whose good opinion I have greater regard. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—No gentleman who has advo¬ cated a reconsideration of this Section, has contended that the 748 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS effect of the Section as already adopted, is not to increase the independence of the Legislative Department in this State. It has been argued that this is a novel proposition. I deny that statement. It has precedent in some of the greatest States in the Union. The great imperial State of New York has a provision in its Constitution, more far reaching in effect than the one pro¬ posed by the Committee on Executive Department. I will read that provision to the Convention. Section 7 of the Constitution of New York provides as follows: “No member of the Legisla¬ ture shall receive any civil appointment within this State, or to the Senate of the United States, from the Governor, the Gov¬ ernor and Senate, or from the Legislature, or from any City Government, during the time for which he shall have been elect¬ ed; and all such appointments, and all votes given for any such member for any such office or appointment shall be void.” MR. PETTUS—I would like to ask the gentleman from Lau¬ derdale a question. MR. O’NEAL—Certainly. MR. PETTUS—For information. Do you know how much the Representative in the General Assembly of the State of New York are paid for their service as such officers? MR. O’NEAL—I think about $1,5(X) a year. The same pro¬ vision, Mr. President, can be found in the Constitutions of Cali¬ fornia, Georgia, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska and Pennsylvania. The gentleman from Limestone, who advocates a reconsidera¬ tion, contends that under the present system we do not secure the election of the ablest and best men in the State to the Legis¬ lative Department of the Government. Mr. President, we are bound to recognize the fact that the Legislature is largely com¬ posed of ambitious young men who are seeking a political pre¬ ferment and political promotion at the hands of the Executive of the State. Remove this temptation, and the result will be that you will elevate the tone of the Legislative Department and in¬ crease its independence. The paramount purpose of this Convention is to purify and elevate the political conditions in Alabama. One of the cardinal principles of our Government, upon which our institutions a/e founded, is that there should be an entire separation between the three great departments of Government. The greatest man pro¬ duced during the period of the revolution, who contributed to the Federal list, Mr. Hamilton, and who is regarded by many as the greatest intellect of that period, said on that subject: “No political truth is of greater political value, or is stamped with the authority of the more enlightened patrons of liberty, than that on which this objection is founded; the accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 749 of one, or a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointive, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of ty¬ ranny. The preservation of liberty requires that the three ffreat departments of power should be separate and distinct. Said Mon- tesquee, ‘there can be no liberty where the legislative and execu¬ tive powers are united in the same person, or body of magistrates.’ ” The purpose of this provision then is to prevent the Execu¬ tive from dominating and controlling the Legislative Department of the Government by reason of his appointing power, and in ac¬ complishing that we will take a step forward, in a movement of reform which has the approbation and sanction of the people of Alabama, and of the enlightened judgment of this Republic. MR. PETTUS—I have the profoundest respect for the abil¬ ity and learning of the distinguished gentleman from Lauderdale, but I am surprised to see this gentleman speaking so eloquently for the independence of the three co-ordinate departments of State government today, when I understand him to support so ably the report of the Committee on yesterday or the day before, authoriz¬ ing the Governor to propose amendments to bills on the floor of the House. MR. O’NEAL—I opposed that. MR. PETTUS^—I beg the gentleman’s pardon; I was under a misapprehension of the facts. MR. O’NEAL—I opposed it bitterly. MR. PETTUS—While I recognize the ability of the dis¬ tinguished authority from which he quotes, I am not willing yet to accept all of the theories of republican government from the hands of Alexander Hamilton. Now, Mr. President, I stated briefly in the beginning, why I move for a reconsideration of the vote by which this section was adopted. Examples have been cited here of other States, which have such or similar provisions in their constitutions, mak¬ ing the members of their legislatures ineligible to appointment to any office, but the gentleman himself answered, when I asked him the question, that in those States they are able to pay, and do pay their representatives salaries, that make the offices of members of the legislature sufficient to attract men for the sake of their own emoluments. The very fact, Mr. President, that in the State of Alabama members of the legislature are paid such meagre salaries, the very fact that perhaps if they were to get a little more— MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I would like to ask what the pay of legislators in Georgia is? 750 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. PETTUS—I am not informed as to what the legislators in Georgia get, but the gentleman stated that the State of New York and the State of Pennsylvania, among others, paid their representatives fifteen hundred dollars a year, and in this section which he read from the Constitution of New York, it makes it unlawful and void for a representative to barter away his vote for any office, which is in the nature of bribery, and certainly any delegate would oppose bribery on the part of any member in the legislature. MR. O’NEAL—Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. PETTUS—Certainly. MR. O’NEAL—Does he contend that in the States of Cali¬ fornia, Georgia, Montana, Missouri and Nebraska, which have similar provisions, that they are paid any larger amounts than in the State of Alabama? MR. PETTUS—I am not informed. MR. O’NEAL—My information is that the pay in nearly all of those States is five dollars per day. MR. PETTUS—That is certainly more than it is in Alabama, and if they only pay their members five dollars a day and disfran¬ chise them from holding any office, and make them ineligible to appointment, I must say it is unwise in those Constitutions and is an example that we should avoid, rather than one we shoijjd follow. Now, as stated in the beginning, the principal reason why I oppose making Representatives ineligible to appointment to any office, other than those which they create in the General As¬ sembly, or help to create, during their term, is because the tempta¬ tion has been removed from the Chief Executive to abuse his patronage, and it is because I believe it is unjust under some cir¬ cumstances to defeat the will of the people. I might give a sim¬ ple illustration. Suppose a man, as was so eloquently said by the gentleman from Talladega, is elected unanimously by his people to serve them on the floor of the General Assembly of Alabama. Suppose during his term of office a vacancy occurs in some Coun¬ ty office, for example in the office of Probate Judge, and suppose it is the unanimous desire of the people of that County that he be appointed to fill that office. Under this section of the Constitu¬ tion as reported by the Committee, he would be ineligible, and it would not be within the power of the Governor to comply with the wishes, and with a unanimous demand on the part of the peo¬ ple of that County, to appoint the representatives to that office. Now, the distinguished gentleman from Montgomery, the Chairman of the Committee, has quoted as an illustration and analagous case, the example of the Chief Justice or some Supreme CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 751 Judge in this State, being ineligible to hold any office, but I sub¬ mit, Mr. President, that the office of judge in this State is one that is sufficiently attractive, like the office of Governor, to draw the very best men to serve the people upon the bench, although they are disqualified during that time from holding any other of¬ fice, and the distinction I make is that the office of representative in the General Assembly is not sufficiently attractive in itself to draw men to serve the people in that capacity, to the great detriment of their private business, in this material age. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—Will the gentleman permit me to ask a question? MR. PETTUS—Certainly; will be delig’hted to hear the ques¬ tion. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—Does the Convention understand that if the office of legislator was a pay office, one where the sal¬ ary justified it, you would be in favor of his not being appointed to something else. MR. PETTUS—I do not know what the Convention under¬ stands as to that proposition. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I want to know what you think about it. MR. PETTUS—I will state. Mr. President, that if it were true that representatives in this State were paid a salary of fifteen hundred dollars a year, and the State were able to pay them that salary, that might put a different phase upon the situation. Now, Mr. President, I think that this question has been suf¬ ficiently discussed and I call for the previous question on the mo¬ tion to reconsider. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—We ask for an aye and no vote, MR. PETTUS—I rise to a point of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of inquiry. MR. PETTUS—The question was whether or not the pre¬ vious question was ordered. Do I understand we are having an aye and no vote on the call for the previous question? THE PRESIDENT—That is the understanding of the Chair. In the opinion of the Chair a delegate may call for an aye and no vote on any question, if it is called for in time. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I withdraw my call for the tiipe being. A vote being taken the previous question was ordered. 752 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. deGRAFFENREID— Now I renew the call for the ayes and noes. THE PRESIDENT—^The question is upon the motion to reconsider, and upon that the gentleman from Hale calls for an aye and no vote. Is the call sustained? The call was sustained by a sufficient number of delegates rising. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—If I am in order, I move to lay the motion of the gentleman from Limestone to reconsider on the table. THE PRESIDENT—The previous question has been or¬ dered, and a call for an aye and no vote has been sustained. The question is on the motion to reconsider. Those m favor of re¬ consideration will vote aye, as their names are called, and those opposed, will vote no. During the call of the roll: MR. BOONE—Mr. President I would vote aye, but I am paired with Dr. Cunningham, the delegate from Jefferson, who would vote no. MR. ASHCRAFT—When my name was called I forgot that I was paired with the gentleman from Colbert, Mr. Carmichael, and if he were here he would vote no, and I would vote aye, and I forgot to mention it at the time my name was called. Mr. Ashcraft’s vote which had been recorded, was erased from the roll. MR. PILLANS—I would vote no, if I were not paired, but I am paired with Mr. Willet of Pickens, who would vote aye. The vote resulted as follows: AYES Cornwall, Hinson, Davis, of Etowah, Hood, Eley, Jackson, Foshee, Jenkins, Foster, Knight, Freeman, Kyle, Graham, of Montgomery, Ledbetter, Grayson, Long, of Butler, Greer, of Calhoun, Long, of Walker, Haley, McMillan (Wilcox), Harrison, Miller (Marengo), Heflin, of Chambers, Moody, Heflin, of Randolph, Murphree, Messrs. President, Almon, Bartlett, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Burns, Byars, Cardon, 'Carmichael, of Colbert, •Carnathon, Case, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 753 NeSmith, Oates, O’Neill, of Jefferson, Palmer, Parker (Cullman), Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Pettus, Pitts, Proctor, Reese, Banks, Barefield, Beddow, Bethune, Blackwell, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Craig, Davis, of DeKalb, Dent, deGraffenreid, Duke, Espy, Fletcher, Gilmore, Glover, Graham, of Talladega, Handley, Henderson, Renfroe, Reynolds (Chilton), Rogers (Lowndes), Sanders, Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Smith (Mobile), Sorrell, Studdard, NOES Hodges, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Leigh, Locklin, Macdonald, McMillan, of Baldwin, Malone, Martin, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller (Wilcox), Morrisette, Mulkey, Norman, Thompson, Vaughan, Waddell, Walker, Watts, Weatherly, Whiteside, Williams (Elmore), Wilson (Clarke), Wilson (Washington), TOTAL—70. Norwood, O’Neal (Lauderdale), Opp, Phillips, Reynolds, of Henry, Robinson, Rogers (Sumter), Samford, Sanford, Selheimer, Smith, Mac. A., Smith, Morgan M., Spears, Spragins, Stewart, Tayloe, Weakley, White, Williams (Barbour), Williams (Marengo), Winn, TOTAL—63. absent or not voting Ashcraft, Beavers, Cunningham, Ferguson, Grant, Greer, of Perry, Kirkland, Lowe, of Jefferson, MR. PETTUS Lowe, of Lawrence, Porter, Altman, Boone, Carmichael, of Colbert, O’Rear, Pillans, Willet, Coleman, of Walker, Eyster, Fitts, Lomax, King, Sollie, —I move to lay Section 20 on the table. 754 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I call for an aye and nay vote on that motion. The call for the ayes and noes was sustained. MR. PETTUS—I would like to state for the information of the Convention, that the Legislative Committee are preparing an ordinance to meet this question. The Committee on Legislative Department are preparing to report an ordinance similar to this, to meet what this ordinance was intended to meet. It properly belongs to the Legislative Department. Upon the call of the roll, the vote resulted as follows: Messrs. President, Almon, Bartlett, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Burns, Byars, Cardon, Carmichael, of Colbert, Carnathon, Case, Cornwall, Davis, of Etowah, deGraffenreid, Eley, Foshee, Foster, Freeman, Graham, of Montgomery, Grayson, Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Banks, Barefield, Beddow, Bethune, Blackwell, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, AYES Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Hinson, Hood, Jackson, Jenkins, Knight, Kyle, Ledbetter, Long, of Butler, Long, of Walker, McMillan, of Wilcox, Martin, Miller, of Marengo, Moody, NeSmith, Oates, O’Neill (Jefferson), O’Rear, Palmer, Parker, of Cullman, Parker, of Elmore, NOES Coleman, of Greene, Craig, Davis, of DeKalb, Dent, Duke, Espy, Fletcher, Gilmore, Pearce, Pettus, Pillans, Pitts, Porter, Proctor, Reese, Renfro, Reynolds, of Chilton, Rogers, of Lowndes, Sanders, Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Sorrell, Studdard, Thompson, Waddell, Watts, Weatherly, Whiteside, Wilson, of Clarke, Wilson, of Washington, TOTAL—70. Glover, Graham, of Talladega,. Grant, Handley, Henderson, Hodges, Howell, Howze, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 755 Inge, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Leigh, Locklin, McMillan (Baldwin), MacDonald, Malone, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller, of Wilcox, Morrisette, Mulkey, Murphree, Norwood, O’Neal, of Lauderdale, Opp, Phillips, Reynolds (Henry), Robinson, Rogers, of Sumter, Samford, Sanford, Selheimer, Smith, of Mobile, Smith, Mac A., Smith, Morgan M., Spears, Stewart, Tayloe, Vaughan, Walker, Weakley, White, Williams, of Barbour, Williams, of Marengo, Winn, TOTAL—65. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Altman, Willet, Williams, of Elmore, Ashcraft, Beavers, Boone, Cunningham, Ferguson, MR. deGRAFFENRElD—1 fjive notice that I shall make a motion in the morning to reconsider this vote by which this sec¬ tion was laid on the table. MR. OATES—I now move to reconsider this vote and then move to lay that motion on the table. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I rise to a point of order. Under Rule 27 a motion to lay on the table cannot be reconsidered. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—The motion has not been made, x give notice that I shall make the motion in the morning. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. The gentleman from Montgomery made the motion to lay on the ta¬ ble and with the same object, but the motion to lay on the table under Rule 27 cannot be reconsidered. Greer, of Perry, Kirkland, Lowe, of Jefferson, Lowe, of Lawrence, Norman, Spragins, Coleman, of Colbert, Coleman, of Walker, Eyster, King, Lomax, Fitts, Carmichael, of Colbert, Sollie. MR. OATES—That is the universal parliamentary practice to clinch a thing, to move to reconsider and move to lay that on the table. THE PRESIDENT—That is the practice in Congress, but under our rules that has been changed. 756 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SANDERS—I now move the adoption of the substitute offered by me on yesterday for the report of the committee. The substitute disqualifying the holding of office on the part of the General Assembly where the office was created during the term for which they were elected or where the emoluments were in¬ creased during their term. MR. WADDELL—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—State the point. MR. WADDELL—We are now considering the sections of this article generally and we cannot consider them until they come up in their-regular order. THE PRESIDENT—The point is well taken. MR. FLETCHER—I desire to make a report from the Com¬ mittee on Banks and Banking. It is a short report. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Madison asks unanimous consent to send up a report from the Committee on Banks and Banking. Is there objection? The Chair hears none and the gentleman will send up the report. MR. SAMFORD—I move that the reading of the report be dispensed with. It will be printed and put upon the desks of every member in the morning. MR. BROOKS — I would ask the gentleman to withdraw that motion a moment merely to enable me to say that the report of the committee is very brief and it is well to have it read so that members can think over it. MR. SAMFORD—If anybody wants to hear it, let it be read. The report was read as follows: Report of the Committee on Banks and Banking; Mr. President: The Committee on Banks and Banking have instructed me to make the following report, viz: That they have examined all the ordinances and resolutions submitted to them, and without passing upon them separately will say they have embraced the substance of some of them in the article herewith submitted. That they have adopted the entire subdivision on banks and banking as it appears in Article XIV of the Constitution with Section 8 added. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 7S7 A. S. Fletcher, Chairman on Banks and Banking’. ARTICLE XIV Section 1—Sub. Div. Banks and Banking. The General As¬ sembly shall not have the power to establish or incorporate any bank or banking company or money institution, for the purpose of issuing bills of credit, or bills payable to order or bearer, ex¬ cept under the conditions prescribed in this Constitution. Sec. 2—No bank shall be established otherwise than under a general banking law, nor otherwise than upon a specie basis. Sec. 3—All bills or notes issued as money shall be at all times redeemable in gold or silver, and no law shall be passed sanction¬ ing directly or indirectly the suspension of any bank or banking company or specie payment. Sec. 4 —Holders of bank notes and depositors who have not stipulated for interest shall, for such notes and deposits, be en¬ titled in case of insolvency to the preference of payment over all other- creditors. Sec. 5—Every bank or banking company shall be required to cease all banking operations within twenty years from the time of its organization (unless the General Assembly shall extend the time) and promptly thereafter close its business; but shall have corporate capacity to sue and shall be liable to suits until its af¬ fairs and liabilities are fully closed. Sec. 6—No banks shall receive directly or indirectly a greater rate of interest than shall be allowed by law to individuals for lending money. Sec. 7—The State shall not be a stockholder in any bank nor the credit of the State ever be given, or loaned, to any banking company, association or corporation. Sec. 8 — The General Assembly shall be appropriate laws, provide for the examination by some public officer of all banks and banking institutions and trust companies engaged in banking business in this State. MR. SAMFORD—That is printed without motion. THE PRESIDENT—Under the rule, it lies over one day and will be printed. MR. SAMFORD—If I recollect, the continuing order was the consideration of the clause in the Article on .Executive De¬ partment, touching the great seal of Alabama. 758 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Will the gentleman yield so that I can make a further report from the Committee on Execu¬ tive Department? MR. SAMFORD—Does it relate to the real? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No, sir. MR. SAMFORD—Then won’t you wait until I get through? Although if you insist on it, I will yield. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No, I won’t insist. MR. SAMFORD—Then on the pending matter, I demand the previous question. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point there is nothing before the House, and the gentleman is not in order. THE PRESIDENT—The question before the House is Sec¬ tion 22, reported with a substitute, and there is an amendment offered to the substitute by the gentleman from Chambers, which was read just as the Convention adjourned, and the question will be on the amendment of the delegate from Chambers. MR. BOONE—I move to table both substitute and amend¬ ment. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Pike moves the previous question. MR. SAMFORD—Yes, my object was to get a vote. THE PRESIDENT—And the gentleman from Mobile moves to table the substitute and amendment. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that the gentleman from Pike was out of order because at that time there was nothing before the House THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is not well taken. The question had been stated when the House adjourned yester¬ day afternoon. MR. LONG (Walker)—What is before the House now'? THE PRESIDENT—The motion of the gentleman from Mo¬ bile to table the substitute offered for Section 22, and the amend¬ ment offered thereto by the delegate from Chambers. MR. LONG (Walker)—Does that carry with it the report of the committee? THE PRESIDENT—It carries with it the substitute report¬ ed by the committee, and the amendment of the delegate from Chambers. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 759 MR. LONG (Walker)—I want to know if it includes the woman on horseback. THE PRESIDENT—It includes the substitute offered by the committee and also the amendment of the deleg^ate from Cham¬ bers. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a question of inquiry. I understood the motion is to table the amendment offered by the delegfate from Chambers and the substitute. What is the substitute? THE PRESIDENT—The substitute is the woman on horse¬ back. MR. BROWNE—I call for a division of the question. There may be members who desire to lay the amendment on the table who don’t desire to lay the substitute. THE PRESIDENT—That would address itself as a matter of propriety to the gentleman making the motion, but when he moves to table both the amendment and the substitute, there is nothing to divide. Any member can move to table a substitute and amendments, and the original section if he desires. The ques¬ tion is on the motion of the gentleman from Mobile to table. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—If that is the amendment offered by the gentleman from Montgomery and the substitute of the gentleman from Chambers, I call for an aye and no vote on it. MR. SANFORD—What the committee offered was a substi¬ tute for the present seal and the gentleman from Chambers of¬ fered to amend that by putting an Indian in the seal. THE PRESIDENT—The chair understands that the Com¬ mittee on Executive Department reported a resolution offered by the gentleman from Montgomery with a substitute. Thereupon, the gentleman from Chambers moved to amend by substituting the form of seal indicated in his amendment, and now the gentfe- man from Mobile moves to table both the amendment offered by the gentleman from Chambers and the substitute reported by the committee. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Do I understand that if this motion is carried, the ameudment of the delegate from Montgom¬ ery will not go to the table? THE PRESIDENT—^You cannot understand that, for it has been stated exactly to the contrary. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a question of inquiry. The dele¬ gate from Talladega moved for a division of the question, and I would like to read Rule 37 on that: “Any delegate can call for a division of the question when the sense will admit it.” There is a proposition here offered in the shape of a substitute for the 760 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS committee’s report and an amendment to it by the delef^ate from Chambers. There are delegates who would like to table the amendment of the delegate from Chambers who would not like to table the substitute of the gentleman from Montgomery, (Mr. Sanford). THE PRESIDENT—It is not in the power of the Chair to divide the motion made by the gentleman from Mobile. He makes his motion to table both the amendment and the substitute, and the question is shall the call for the yeas and nays be sustained? The call is not sustained. A vote being taken on a division there were 65 yeas and 55 nays. So the motion to table prevailed. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I now ask unanimous consent for the Committee on Executive Department to report a Section which was recommitted to it and also on a resolution. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Limestone has the floor—I beg pardon, I mean the gentleman from Madison. The Chair will state that the gentleman from Limestone has been so much in the mind of the Chair this morning that the Chair in¬ advertently made the remark. Mr. Spragins offered a substitute for Section 22 as follows: “Typical of the resources of the State of Alabama, the Great Seal of the State which shall be used officially by the Governor sha]l be the old seal used until 1875 with addition to indicate the min¬ eral as well as the agricultural resources of the State, its rugged mountains, fertile plains, and beautiful rivers, and that the Leg¬ islature shall name a Commission to design said seal on these lines and when approved by the Legislature it shall be the Great Seal of the State of Alabama. MR. O’NEAL—I move to lay that on the table. A vote being taken the substitute was table. MR. deCJRAFFENREID—I move the adoption of the Sec¬ tion first reported by the Committee, and upon that I move the previous question. A vote being taken the main question was ordered. THE PRESIDENT—The question is upon the adoption of Section 22. MR. SANFORD—Upon that I call for the ayes and noes. THE PRESIDENT — And upon that the gentleman from Montgomery calls for the ayes and noes, and the question is shall CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 761 the call be sustained. The call is not sustained and the question is on the motion of the delegate from Hale to adopt the Sectibn as reported by the Committee. MR. SANFORD—I hope the Convention will not adopt it. MR. deGRAFFENREID — The gentleman is not in order. The main question had been ordered. MR. SANFORD—I had not heard that the previous question had been ordered. MR. LOMAX;—Pending the motion to adopt the Section, I move to take from the table the substitute reported by the Com¬ mittee, offered by the gentleman from Montgomery. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I make the point of order that that motion cannot be entertained, the previous question having been offered. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair as the pre¬ vious question has been ordered a motion to take from the table the substitute would not be in order. MR. LOMAX — Will the Chair listen to the reading of a rule: “Rule 25—When a Section is before the Convention mo¬ tions may be received in the following order: (1) To fix the time to which the Convention shall adjourn. (2) To adjourn. (3) To lay on the table.” So a motion to lay on the table has precedence of a motion for a previous question under the rules. MR. deGRAFFENREID—But not a motion to take from the table. MR. LOMAX—I submit that a motion to take from the ta¬ ble is a motion of equally high privilege as a motion to lay on the table; and, consequently, if a motion to lay on the table has precedence, a motion to take from the table has equal precedence. THE PRESIDENT—What is the rule to which the gentle¬ man refers? MR. LOMAX—Rule 25. I make that as a parliamentary in¬ quiry. MR. BROOKS—The point of order made by the gentleman from Montgomery might be good if we had not already ordered the main question. It is not now in order to make the motion he suggests after the main question is ordered. THE PRESIDENT—After the main question is ordered, it is not then, in the opinion of the Chair, in order to move to take from the table a resolution that has been laid on the table by the Convention. Under our rules a motion to adjourn has precedence of a motion for the previous question, but under our rules that 762 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS would not be in order after the previous question had been or¬ dered. Rule 26 says: “A motion to adjourn shall always be in order, even in the absence of a quorum, except when on a call for the previous question, the main question shall have been or¬ dered. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I rise to a point of inquiry. On the adoption of this Section if the previous question is order¬ ed, has not the Chairman of the Committee, or some member designated by him the right to close even though the main ques¬ tion has been ordered? I make this at the instance of the dele¬ gate from Montgomery. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair did not understand that the gentleman from Montgomery yielded to anyone. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — I will yield to the delegate from Montgomery (Mr. Sanford) on this matter. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the Chair¬ man of the Committee would have a right to yield his time. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that tTie Chairman of the Committee has reported an entirely different sub¬ ject, he has opened and closed on that— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The gentleman is mistaken. I have not opened my lips on this question, but I do want to hear my gallant, chivalrous and gray-headed old soldier friends, whose heart is in this thing and I am going to yield to him. MR. PILLANS—Insisting upon a point made in the inter¬ est of the conduct of business in an orderly way and the cutting off of debate on a matter that has already been fully debated, I insist that the Chair shall not extend the rule beyond the strict letter of the rule. Under the letter of the rule debate is cut off except the Chairman of the Committee shall close debate. It was not claimed by the Chairman until a suggestion was made and then the Chairman turns over to another member the right to close the debate and I object to that. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair cannot recall the language of the rule just at this time, but the rule provides in the recoU lection of the Chair that the gentleman may yield his time and that is the universal practice, so that it is not in the power of the Chair to deny to a gentleman the right to yield his time. MR. LONG—Before you make your ruling I would like to inquire if the gentleman from Montgomery (Mr. Jones) did not yield his time to the gentleman from Montgomery (Mr. Sanford) on this matter? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 763 MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I yielded on an entirely dif¬ ferent proposition, on the substitute, which has been laid on the table, and is not before the House. THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman from Montgomery allow the Chair to rule on the question presented by the delegate from Walker. The gentleman from Montgomery had a right to discuss this in the opening and he yielded to the delegate from Montgomery, Mr. Sanford. The Chairman also has a right to close the discussion and he yields that time to Mr. Sanford. The previous question having been ordered, the gentleman has the right to conclude. Under Rule 17, the Chairman of the Commit¬ tee has a right to close the debate after the previous question is ordered. The Chairman of the Committee or the mover of a proposition notwithstanding the main question has been ordered, has under Rule 17 thirty minutes to conclude the debate and the Chair recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. Sanford. MR. SANFORD—Mr. President, the present Constitution of the State of Alabama, adopted no seal in 1875, except provisionally we will use the present seal, until the General Assembly shall change it. Evidently that Convention contemplated a change, and an early change, from a figure that represented nothing in Alabama. It is simply a bunch of feathers, that is abhorent to a great many of the people of this State. It does not show any¬ thing of the characteristics of Alabama, either with regard to its topography, its history, or the character of its people. The bird that it represents, as was said yesterday, is a bird of prey. Its habitat is all over the American continent; it represents nothing peculiar to the State, and it has this distinction, that it is one of ten other States which has an eagle, or an eagle and some com¬ bination with other figures, as the seal of a great commonwealth. That itself is objectionable. Mississippi has the eagle, Illinois has the eagle, foreign states have the eagle, Equador, Bolivia and Austria has an eagle with two heads, Russia has an eagle with two heads, to show that it preys doubly as much as any other na¬ tion upon the liberties of her people. I can see no reason why Alabama should adopt this particular insignia or emblem for its great seal, by which the people of Alabama make known its will and its power. I hope that this will not be adopted as the seal of the State of Alabama, not even provisionally, as the report of the Executive Committee suggested, until it shall be changed. If it be until it shall be changed, that contemplates that it shall not be permanent. If it be not permanent, why not change it by this Convention? It has ample power; more power than any Assem¬ bly that will meet again possibly in twenty-five years. ^Ve come from the people recently, and while this particular question was not debated, it was as much within the possibilities that the seal would be changed, as that many other provisions in the pres¬ ent Constitution would be altered, and I can see no reason why 764 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS we should adopt this. Therefore, Mr. President, if I shall be in order, and I ask for information, I would move that this section of the report be defeated, and that a committee be designated for the purpose of suggesting a design for a Great Seal. Why do you want this? I have heard no reason given for it. The committee reported it first or contemplated its report to it as a matter of course. The Convention of 1875 did it merely as a matter of course passing it on, and putting it there provisionally. Therefore I hope that the convention will not adopt the sugges¬ tion made by the Committee on Executive Department. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to adopt the section reported by the committee. A division was called for. MR. BROOKS—Mr. President, I request that I be recorded as voting for it. I was out of the hall when the vote was take'll. MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that it is too late for a delegate to vote on a division, after the vote has been taken, if he was not in the Convention at the time the vote was taken. THE PRESIDENT—On an aye and no vote the gentleman could have his vote recorded, but on a division the Chair thinks the point of order is well taken. By a vote of fifty-four ayes to forty-eight noes the section as reported by the committee was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I ask unanimous consent to allow this committee to report as to a matter concerning a sec¬ tion of this article, which was referred to it, and also as to one of the resolutions referred to the committee. The consent was given, and the resolution reported favorably by the committee was read as follows: Resolution 151, by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale): Resolved by the people of Alabama, in Convention assembled, that it is the sense of this Convention that the General Assembly of Alabama should, at its first meeting after the ratification of this Constitution, fix the salary of the Governor at five thousand dollars per annum provided the same can be done without an increase of taxation in this State. The report of the committee was thereupon read as follows: Mr. President: The Committee on Executive Department instructs me to report the following substitute for Section 4 of the ordinance CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 765 “to create and define the Executive Department/' and the pend¬ ing amendments, to wit: Strike out Section 4 as it now stands and insert in lieu thereof the following words: “Sec. 4 —^The returns of every election for Governor, Lieu¬ tenant Governor Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasur¬ er, Attorney General, Superintendent of Education and Commis¬ sioner of Education and Industries shall be sealed up and trans¬ mitted by the returning officers to the seat of Government, di¬ rected to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who shall, during the first week of the session to which said returns shall be made, open and publish them in the presence of both houses of the General Assembly, in joint convention. The joint conven¬ tion shall supervise and control the Speaker in the discharge of this duty and has power; first, to determine whether the returns are in legal form, made by the proper officers, and truly give the results as ascertained and declared by the Board of Supervisors in the several Counties; second, to correct such errors as may be found therein; third, to procure proper returns, when, for any cause, returns from any County have failed to reach the Speaker. The joint convention shall have no power to question the returns as to any other matters, or in any other respect. The person found to have the highest number of votes for either of said of¬ fices shall be declared duly elected; but if two or more persons shall have an equal and the highest number of votes for the same office, the General Assembly by joint vote, without delay, shall choose one of said persons for said office. Conant Governor, Sec¬ retary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney General, Superintendent of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, shall be determined by both Houses of the Gen¬ eral Assembly in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The committee recommends the addition of the substitute. Thomas G. Jones, Chairman. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, does that have to be printed? It is not an original ordinance, but it is a section that has been recommitted to the committee. THE PRESIDENT—The original article was brought be¬ fore the Convention and printed under the rules, and then the section recommitted. The chair does not think it would be neces¬ sary that the substitute should be printed, although it is in the power of the Convention to have it done if it so desired. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If it will meet with the pleas¬ ure of the Convention as it is in the direction of getting rid of this section, and taking up something that is behind, I move that 766 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS we proceed to consider it now. I will state that it is the unani¬ mous report of the committee, and, I believe, covers every ob¬ jection that has been raised by any member on the floor. THE PRESIDENT — There is another resolution that the gentleman has brought before the Convention—-the resolution of Mr. O’Neal; what disposition will the Convention make of that resolution? MR. SPRAGINS—I move to lay it on the table. MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that under the rules the report of the committee must lie on the table until to¬ morrow. It is a report of the committee on the resolution. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the chair that the rule does not extend to resolutions, but simply to ordinances, that should be printed and lie on the table. The chair, though, will examine the rule. MR. HOWZE — I would refer the chair to Rule 47, whiSh will give you the information. THE PRESIDENT—Rule 47 provides: “When any ordi¬ nance is introduced, it shall be read at length and be referred by the President without a vote being taken unless otherwise or¬ dered by a two-thirds vote of the Convention, to the appropriate committee. No ordinance shall be reported back from any com¬ mittee until after the lapse of one entire legislative day. When any committee shall have reported to this Convention any article or section of the proposed Constitution, said article or section shall again be read at length, and 300 copies thereof printed for the use of delegates; and such article or section shall lie on the table at least one day and until in regular order it shall be taken up for consideration by the Convention.” This does not apply to resolutions, and they may be immediately considered by the Con¬ vention, when reported, or may be postponed, as the Convention may desire. MR. deGRAFFENREID—But it does not refer either to a sub-division, the article, or a section. As I understand it, this committee has not reported either an article or a section, but sim¬ ply a section of one article. THE PRESIDENT—They are simply speaking now with reference to the resolution offered by Mr. O’Neal of Lauderdale and reported by the committee. MR. JONES—I move the adoption of the resolution. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Madison has mov¬ ed to lay the resolution on the table, and that is the pending question. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 767 MR. deGRAFFENRElD—Upon that I call for the ayes and noes. There were expressions of dissent. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I withdraw that, then. MR. SPRAGINS—I call for the ayes and noes. THE PRESIDENT—The call for the ayes and noes is re¬ newed. The call for the ayes and noes bein^ sustained, a reading of the resolution was called for. MR. COBB—Is that amendable at this stag^e? THE PRESIDENT—Not while the motion of the gentleman from Madison to lay upon the table is pending. Should the Con¬ vention refuse to lay the resolution on the table, it will be open to amendment. On a call of the roll, the vote resulted as follows: AYES Almon, Barefield, Bartlett, Browne, Bulger, Burns, Byars, Cardon, Carnathon, Case, Chapman, Coleman, of Greene, Cornwall, Davis, of DeKalb, Fletcher, Foshee, Freeman, Messrs. President, Banks, Ashcraft, Beavers, Beddow, Bethune, Blackwell, Glover, Grayson, Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Handley, Heflin, of Chambers, Henderson, Hodges, Jenkins, Kirk, Long (Butler), Long (Walker), Lowe (Lawrence), Moody, Murphree, NeSmith, NOES Boone, Brooks, Burnett, Cobb, Cofer, Craig, Davis, of Etowah, O'Neill (Jefferson), Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Phillips, Porter, Proctor, Reynolds (Chilton), Reynolds (Henry), Sentell, Sloan, Spears, Spragins, Studdard, Thompson, Whiteside, Williams (Barbour), Williams (Elmore), TOTAL—50. Dent, deGraffenreid, Duke, Eley, Espy, Fitts, Foster, 768 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Harrison, Heflin, of Randolph, Hinson, Hood, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jackson, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Kyle, Ledbetter, Leigh, Locklin, Lomax, Lowe (Jefferson), MacDonald, McMillan (Baldwin), McMillan (Wilcox), Malone, Martin, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller (Marengo), Miller (Wilcox), Mulkey, Norman, Norwood, Oates, O’Neal (Lauderdale), Opp, Palmer, Parker (Cullman), Pettus, Pillans, Pitts, Reese, Renfro, Robinson, Rogers (Lowndes), Rogers (Sumter), Samford, Sanders, Sanford, Searcy, Selheimer, Smith (Mobile), Smith, Mac. A., Smith, Morgan M., Tayloe, Vaughan, Waddell, Walker, Watts, White, Williams (Marengo), Wilson (Clarke), Wilson (Washington), Winn, TOTAL—87. absent or not VOTING Altman, Greer, of Perry, Sollie, Carmichael, of Colbert, Jones, of Hale, Sorrell, Carmichael, of Coffee, King, Stewart, Coleman, of Walker, Kirkland, Weakley, Cunningham, Morrisette, Weatherly, Eyster. O’Rear, Willet, Ferguson, MR. PETTUS—Mr. President, I ask unanimous leave to ex¬ plain my vote. Objection was made. THE PRESIDENT—Objection is made, and the gentleman is out of order. By a vote of forty-seven ayes and eighty-seven noes, the motion to table is lost. MR. COBB—I desire to amend the resolution so as to pro¬ vide that the Legislature be requested to increase the salary. THE PRESIDENT — The chair will state that the chair will not entertain a motion unless it is put in writing. The clerks find it impossible to keep the journal correct, unless the ameria- ments are put in writing. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 769 MR. COBB—If the chair will let me explain myself, I will put it in writing and send it up. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will proceed. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will state on behalf of the committee and the mover of the resolution, that the amendment suggested by my friend from Macon will be entirely agreeable. MR. COBB—It would be entirely agreeable to me, provided the Chair had not ruled already, and if that concluded the matter, I would say no more, but the Chair has ruled that it still must go to the Convention, whether this acceptance will be allowed, and on that I ask to say a word or two. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask unanimous consent that it be accepted. To which objection was made. MR. COBB—I do not propose to detain the Convention at any length. I merely want to call the attention of the Convention to the fact that what was presented by the Committee was identi¬ cally the same proposition which has already been passed upon by the Convention, inasmuch as the original proposition makes it obligatory upon the General Assembly to do the thing which the Convention itself has declined to do, and in this connection I wish to take occasion to say that those who voted in the nega¬ tive to the prior proposition, have come to understand, myself among the number, and were perfectly willing to have the salary of the Governor made $5,000 a year, but we took the position that that was a matter to be determined by the General Assembly itself, and therefore any proposition which comes before this Convention along the line of an increase in this salary, I heartily approve. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Will the gentleman allow me to interrupt him? MR. COBB—Yes. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale) — The original resolution con¬ tains the word "’should” instead of shall. It was mis-read. It is “the sense of this Convention that the General Assembly should.” MR. COBB—That is the sense of my resolution. I voted before not because I am opposed to a raise in the salary, but be¬ cause I believe it ought to be determined by the Legislature and not by the Convention, and I am willing to say to the General Assembly that in the opinion of the Convention it should be done, if it meets a concurrence with their opinion. 779 OFVICf AL PRpCBEQINGS MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Does not the word “should” make it in the nature of a request? MR. COBB-^Yes, “should” will do; any langusffe to leave it discretionary with the General Assembly as to whether it shall be done or not. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state for the information of the Convention that the word in the orisfinal resolution is “should” instead of "shall” that meets the objection of the gen¬ tleman, and the amendment of the gentleman from Macon is with¬ drawn. MR. PETTUS—I simply wanted to state in order that my position may not be misunderstood, I voted against the Commit¬ tee on the proposition to increase the Governor's salary, because I did not believe that this was the proper forum in which to legislate a question. Now, Mr. President, in order that the posi¬ tion of the Convention may not be misunderstood, as opposing the increase in the Governor’s salary on any grounds, I desire to vote with the Committee on the resolution offered by the gentle¬ man from Lauderdale. I think this is a matter for the General Assembly to determine. MR. COLEMAN (Greene) — I offer an amendment to the resolution. The amendment was read as follows: ' Move to amend the resolution by striking out the words at the end of the resolution “if it can be done without increase Of taxation,” and to substitute therefor the following words: 'Tf in the discretion of the Legislature it is for the best interests of the State of Alabama.” MR. SANFORD—I move to lay the amendment on the table. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Greene has the floor. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I have not yielded the floor. MR. SANFORD—I beg pardon. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President, and delegates of the Convention, I believe there are quite a number of delegates here, who coincide with the views expressed by the delegate from Macon, Judge Cobb, but I think upon reading the resolution as offered, it will be ascertained that it is not in accordance with the views expressed by him, and I do not believe it is in accord¬ ance with the views entertained by a majority of the delegates of this Convention. It siays if it can be done without an increase of taxation. As a matter of course, every delegate in this Con¬ vention knows full well that there will be money enough in the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 771 Treasury to raise the Governor’s salary to $5,000 a year, but the question is whether or not the Legislature should be compelled to appropriate it for the Governor’s salary,'if there are other de¬ mands of more importance, and more needed than that of an in¬ crease of salary. That is the reason that I have offered the amend¬ ment. I believe that the fixing of the salary should be left with the Legislature, and the arguments that have been made here, that you cannot trust the Legislature, are arguments, to my mind, in support of the proposition that we should not take it from the legislature, and take advantage of our position and power at this time, to do what we are afraid the people will not have done through their immediate representatives, who represent them up¬ on this identical question. Year after year it was said, for twenty-five years, the legis¬ lature has failed and refused to raise the Governor’s salary, and therefore the argument is that we, without ever giving the people an opportunity to express themselves upon this question, shall take charge of it and do what we are afraid the people will not or re¬ quire to be done by their immediate representatives. For these reasons, and others that could be mentioned, I offer the amend¬ ment. MR. HARRISON—I heartily endorse the amendment offered by the delegate from Greene, and I thin^ without it that the reso¬ lution will not express the sense of a majority of this Convention. It has been well said by the gentleman from Macon there are many of us upon this floor whose views have been misrepresented, but I thoroughly agree with him, and the mover of this amend¬ ment, that it is strictly a legislative prerogative with which this Convention should have nothing to do. I have no objection to expressing the opinion that I think it should be left entirely to the discretion of the General Assem.bly of Alabama. It is injecting into the consideration here a question of legislation which ought not to be in the Constitution and I believe that the legislature is not only the proper forum, but they will come nearer to repre¬ senting the views of the people on this question, than this Con¬ vention will, and I trust therefore, that this resolution will be adopted and I appeal to the gentlemen who may oppose it, that we may unite in order to relieve any question. Many of them are against it for the reason that many of us did not think it was the duty of this Convention to legislate upon this subject, and that this amendment will be adopted, and I think that will clearly ex¬ press the views of a majority of this Convention. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Before my friend from Lee resumes his seat, I would like to ask him if he adopts the substi¬ tute offered by the gentleman from Greene what is the result of the substitute? MR, HARRISON—What is the result of it? 772 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Yes, what opinion do we ex¬ press. MR. HARRISON—You express the opinion that you are in favor of it if the legislature agrees to it. I think it is their preroga¬ tive to pass on the question. Mr. Tayloe took the Chair as President pro tern. MR. KNOX—Mr. President, the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Greene in effect kills the resolution reported by the Committee on Executive Department. It is offered by an op¬ ponent to the original proposition, and it is ingeniously framed so as to kill the resolution. It simply says to the legislature, “Do what you think is best, we express no opinion on the subject.” If it was proper for the Constitutional Convention of 1875, at a time of great financial embarrassment, to declare in the Constitution that salaries should be reduced, where is the impropriety in the delegates to this Convention, declaring in favor of an increase when times have improved, and when it is manifest that the salary which the people are paying to their Chief Executive is so meagre, especially when we have the testimony here of distinguished gentlemen who have filled that office who state to us that they were embarrassed be¬ cause they were unable to maintain the dignity of the position with the meagre allowance made to them by the State. I say if it was proper in one Constitutional Convention to reduce the salary, I can see no objection to the delegates to this Convention de¬ claring their opinion that if the finances of the State will warrant it should be increased. Why, Mr. President, I suppose there is not a wholesale merchant who would send out a salesman to ne¬ gotiate the sale of his goods, that would not allow him reasonable expense money, that he might dress well and that he might stop at such hotels and live in such style as that he would be enabled to command the trade that he was sent to reach. The people of Alabama ought to supply the Chief Executive with such salary as that he can maintain the dignity of the State he represents, and I therefore hope that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Greene will not be adopted. MR. BLACKWELL—When we had this question up the other day I voted and argued against any increase by this body of the salary of the Governor of the State for the very reason as¬ signed by the gentleman from Greene. The difference between our reducing the salary of the Governor of the State and other officers in 1875 and our increasing it now is that then the question was before the people and we had pledged the people to reduce them and they had endorsed the pledge and demanded that we reduce the salaries. Now we have not presented the matter to the people and have not had any expression from them and we do not know their will as we did when the salaries were reduced. As a matter of fact, I can see nothing in the resolution of the gen- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 773 tleman from Greene that would prevent the Leg^islature from be¬ lieving' that this Convention in its judgment thought that the salary ought to be increased. The resolution simply avoids in¬ structing. It is just advisory, advising rather than instructing them to do it. Instruction is a different thing from advice and I favor the resolution of the delegate from Greene because it leaves it discretionary with the Legislature, and as I understand we put ourselves on record as saying we believe it ought to be done but we don’t command that it be done. Mr. Knox resumed the Chair. MR. COBB—Does not the amended resolution leave it ad¬ visory with the Legislature? MR. BLACKWELL—That is why I am advocating it. MR. COBB—The amendment which I offered and which was accepted by the committee, does not that leave it entirely ad¬ visory ? MR. BLACKWELL—If it does, the gentleman should not object to another that makes it clearer. This other is clearer, better expressed and leads the Legislature to understand better that we are advising without the least shadow of direction. MR. BEDDOW—I move to lay the amendment of the dele¬ gate from Greene on the table. MR. COLEMAN—Will the gentleman withdraw that? MR. PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman withdraw for the purpose of hearing Judge Coleman? MR. BEDDOW—For that purpose only. MR. COLEMAN—Mr. President and delegates of the Con¬ vention, I did not have the resolution before me and it is impossi¬ ble for any person to keep within his mind and memory as the sentences are written, but I offered an amendment which will install into it what I consider ought to be done. The statements which have been made on this floor by distinguished men who have filled the office that they were in pecuniary distress and were not able to uphold the dignity of the office as it should have been, seems to be without force. MR. OATES—I desire to interrupt the gentleman. I did not put up such a plea. What I said was that it was wholly inade¬ quate. I expended $5,000 more than I got out of it. MR, JONES—I didn’t put up a poor mouth, but I said many a time I was unable to give assistance where it was deserved. It cost me $20,000 to hold the office and I am not ashamed to admit it. 774 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. COLEMAN—I am sorry that the gentleman saw fit to spend his private fortune or a large portion of it in matters that did not pertain to his gubernatorial position. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will ask you if you do not think it pertained to the gubernatorial position if a woman with a lot of children applied to the Governor for help when she had no place to stay that night? MR. COLEMAN—I did not propose to make the reply which I will but it is strange to me that anyone who has experienced the trouble and difficulties of my friend from Montgomery should exercise such unusual exertion as my friend the delegate from Montgomery did to put himself in the office for the second term. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—That was because I valued honor more than I did money. MR. COLEMAN—I do not think the gentleman has absorbed all the honor or the appreciation of honor in Alabama. I think there are hundreds of men in Alabama who have just as much respect and appreciation of the high honor of the place as my friend from Montgomery. Look at the history of the State and tell me if with rare exceptions that office has not been filled by the very best men of the State. When was it that we did not have the very best men of the State to aspire to it knowing full well that the salary was $3,000 or about that, I don't know exactly the amount. Mr. President, our great loss has been recently alluded to. I hold that there is no man in Alabama more deserving of place and of the good wishes of the people and who experience their loss in greater degree than we have recently in our great loss. I believe like Solomon in his best days he uttered a prayer that he might have wisdom and knowledge to govern this great people, and I do not doubt that what if his life has been spared he would have given us an exceptional administration here at this time without consulting with people who would undertake to legislate upon matters with which we were not entrusted by the people. When did any man standing as a delegate say that the question of raising the salary of the Governor would be presented and in¬ sisted upon? There may be members to this Convention who have winced under the castigation of newspapers when denounced as niggardly and have not voted their sentiments. If there are any such they ought to change their votes. But any man who voted from the dictates of justice, trying to carry out the will of his constituents, ought to have the honesty to stand by his judgment and conclusions. I do not care what they say. I propose to be judged by my life’s service rendered, and by my own conscience, and I do not see why, at this time, without consultation and without knowing the wishes of the people, other than as have been CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 775 explained here and manifested for twenty-five years by the House of Representatives, increase this salary. The amendment of the delegate from Macon (Mr. Cobb) does not reach the point. It says it shall be done, if it can be done without increasing taxation. Of course, it can be done without increasing taxation, but the great State of Alabama is putting out every dollar she can for school purposes and other developments in this State which are considered to the people more to their in¬ terest than any increase in the Governor's salary. Every dollar appropriated to the Governor beyond the present amount will be taken from some other enterprise. You are bound to do it. There will be money in the Treasury, but some other enterprise will suffer. Leave it to the Legislature, and, as the income and revenue increase, we cannot but believe that they will do their duty by the office and the people. MR. SANFORD—If your Constitution forbids the raising of the Governor’s salary during his term, at which time will the in¬ crease of salary take effect? The very fact that it forbids the Legislature to act, prevents any increase of salary. MR. COLEMAN—We have provided for that in my amend¬ ment. There is no prohibition on the action of the Legislature. It is left to them to judge of in view of the revenue, and when the time comes that the money can be spared, they will do it. MR. BEDDOW—I move that the amendment of the delegate from Greene be laid on the table. MR. JENKINS—On that I call for the ayes and noes. The call was sustained. MR. DUKE—It is now about two minutes to 1 o’clock. It will take more than two minutes to call the roll, and I move that the Convention remain in session until this vote is taken. The motion was carried. The roll call resulted as follows: Messrs. President, Banks, Beddow, Bethune, Boone, Brooks, Burnett, Cobb, Craig, Dent, AYES. deGraffenreid, Duke, Eley, Espy, Ferguson, Fitts, Foster, Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Hood, Hinson, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Hale, 776 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Kyle, Ledbetter, Leigh, Locklin, Lomax, Lowe (Jefferson) Macdonald, McMillan (Baldwin) McMillan (Wilcox) Malone, Maxwell, Merrill, Almon, Ashcraft, Barefield, Bartlett, Beavers, Blackwell, Browne, Bulger, Burns, Byars, Cardon, Carnathon, Case, Chapman, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Cornwall, Davis, of DeKalb, Davis, of Etowah, Fletcher, Foshee, Freeman, Glover, Grayson, Miller (Wilcox), Morrisette, Mulkey, Norman, Norwood, Oates, O’Neal (Lauderdale) O’Neill (Jefferson) Parker (Cullman), Pitts, Proctor, Reese, Robinson, Rogers (Lowndes) NOES. Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Handley, Harrison, Henderson, Hodges, Jackson, Jenkins, Kirk, Knight, Long (Butler) Long (Walker), Lowe (Lawrence), Martin, Miller (Marengo), Moody, Murphree, NeSmith, Opp, O’Rear, Palmer, Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Pettus, absent or not Samford, Sanders, Sanford, Selheimer, Smith (Mobile), Smith, Morgan M., Tayloe, Waddell, Walker, Watts, White, Wilson (Clarke) Wilson (Wash’gton) Phillips, Pillans, Porter, Renfro, Reynolds (Chilton), Reynolds (Henry), Rogers (Sumter), Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Smith, Mac. A., Sorrell, Spears, Spragins, Stewart, Studdard, Thompson, Vaughan, Whiteside, Williams (Barbour), Williams (Marengo), Williams (Elmore), Winn, VOTING. Altman, Carmichael, of Colbert, Carmichael, of Coffee, Coleman, of Walker, Cunningham, Eyster, Greer, of Perry, King, Kirkland, Sollie, Weakley, Weatherly, Willett. THE PRESIDENT—The result is seventy ayes and seventy noes. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 777 MR. COLEMAN—I call for a verification of the vote. The vote was verified and the vote announced above, so the motion to table was lost. MR. COLEMAN—I think that count had better be verified. We have it differently. MR SAMFORD—I rise to a question of inquiry. The other day a report from the Committee on Rules providing for double sessions, I understood, make the sessions begin on Thursday. THE PRESIDENT—That was laid on the table, to be called up from day to day, when the Convention desired. MR. GREER—I rise to a point of inquiry. I would like to add up that vote. MR. JONES—I rise to the point of order that the House stands adjourned. TWENTY-SIXTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Friday, June 21, 1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Murphy, as follows: O God, Ruler, Deliverer, Judge, whose will is the order of the world, and in whose right hand is the sceptre of right^usness forevermore, rule, we pray Thee, in our hearts today. Help us, in our silence and in our speech, in work and leisur^ in our going out and our coming in, to dwell in the presence of Thy li^ht, ana to feel within us and upon us the calm watching of the eternal eye. Defend us from all that may be unworthy in the counsels of fear, and from all that is ignoble in the devices of selfish power. Give us, we beseech Thee, the renown of the dutiful and the joy of the true in heart, keep us by the Spirit of gentleness and by the courtesies of a healing and an understanding patience from the petty discord of selfish minds, that a common statesmanship may bring truth with peace, and harmony from the multitude of coun¬ sels. Grant that we may desire that for which we pray, and that we may perform what we desire. Give us wisdom, courage, truth. Touch with the hand of healing and of pity, the hearts of those who suffer and who sorrow. If affliction fall on any man 778 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS among us bring love and strength and hope. When the shadows lengthen, and the far lights grow dim, and the breath of the long night comes up from the fields of sleep, and the dark river rolling by, help us then to go on like men, unafraid and unabashed, in that Thou our God hast called us Home, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. The roll was called and-showed the presence of one hundred and thirty-eight delegates. LEAVES OF ABSENCE. For Today—Mr. Merrill. For Yesterday and Today—Messrs. Eyster, E. D. Willett, Carmichael (Colbert). For Today and Tomorrow (Saturday)—Messrs. Winn, Cole¬ man (Walker). For Tomorrow (Saturday)—Messrs. Bethune, Jones (Bibb), Heflin (Randolph), Waddell, Burnett, Long (Butler), Miller (Marengo), Almon, Davis (Etowah), Williams (Elmore), Nor¬ wood (Lowndes), Foshee. For Yesterday, Today and Saturday—Mr. Altman. For Saturday and Monday—Messrs. Craig, Stewart, Inge. For Yesterday—Dr. Cunningham (Jefferson). THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will explain that several re¬ quests were laid on the desk, and as the session on yesterday was protracted the Chair failed to place them before the Convention. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business is the report of the Committee on the Journal. MR. PROCTOR—The Committee on Journal is not ready to report yet. We would like to have time and report some time during the day. The leave was granted. THE PRESIDENT—The next business is the call of the roll of delegates. MR. ASHCRAFT—The stenographic report made me say on yesterday that Mr. Carmichael desired to vote no on the ques¬ tion reconsidering the resolution. Mr. Carmichael desired to vote aye, and I voted no. THE PRESIDENT—The stenographer will make the neces¬ sary correction. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 779 MR. deGRAFFKNRElD—I move that we dispense with the regular order this morning and proceed to the consideration of the matter which was being considered when the House adjourned on yesterday. MR. COBB—I rise to correct the stenographic report. I would not do this except from the fact that I am made to say just exactly what I did not say. In about the fifteenth line it is writ¬ ten here “those who voted in the negative to the prior proposition, have come to understand myself among the number.” I am thus put in the attitude of changing the position I took originally which was not my intention or language. What I said was that “those who voted in the negative to the prior proposition, myself among the number, have been greatly misunderstood. We were perfect¬ ly willing to have the salary of the Governor made $5,000 a year, but we took the position that it was a matter to be determined by the General Assembly itself,” etc. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I notice some inaccuracies in the report of what was said by me on yesterday. Some of the sentences are incomplete. I believe, however, that enough re¬ mains, if a person should hereafter read the chronicle, to under¬ stand what I intended. I therefore do not desire to have any special corrections inserted. In reading the report of the remarks I made yesterday it is possible that some of the delegates may have understood that I was casting some personal reflection upon my friend, the dele¬ gate from Montgomery. I wish to disclaim anything of that kind, He is one of my best friends. I believe that his administration was as pure as that of any Governor of this State, and it had my endorsement throughout, but I felt justified at the time in making the repartee, or reply that I did, not intending in any way to be discourteous or to reflect upon him. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I beg to say that on yesterday I was wounded, but what the gentleman has said is in keeping with what I have always believed to be his character, and if I were not on crutches. I would walk over and shake hands with him, and I now dismiss it from my mind forever. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I wish to correct the stenographic report. At the conclusion of the speech of the gentleman from Macon I asked him if he did not think the word “should” would be better in the resolution than the word “requested,” and the stenographic report has me saying “does not the word should make it in the nature of a request.” THE PRESIDENT—The stenographer will make the cor¬ rection. 780 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. KIRK—I ask unanimous consent to send up a resolution, that it may be read and referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution 172 by Mr. Kirk (Colbert.) Whereas, the power to regulate the right of suffrage should be left exclusively, to the several States of the Union, and Whereas, the people of Alabama find it necessary to the preservation of good government and honest elections to restrict the right of suffrage where granted to alien and inferior races, and desiring to avoid any seeming conflict between the organic law of the State of Alabama and the Federal Constitution, now there¬ fore Be it resolved. That the President of this convention appoint a committee of five, of which he shall be chairman, to prepare suitable memorials to the Congress of the United States looking to an amendment of the Federal Constitution, whereby the fif¬ teenth amendment of said constitution may be stricken therefrom. Referred to Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is requested to read the fol¬ lowing : Montgomery, Ala., June 21, 1901. To Frank N. Julian, Secretary Constitutional Convention, City: Sirs—Yours enclosing resolution No. 171 of the Constitutional Conven¬ tion was duly received. The resolution was read to the Alabama Press Association and received with satisfaction. I was instructed to extend thanks for the handsome Recognition of this Association by a convention which will rank in history as one of the most important that ever essembled in this State. Very respectfully, J. A. Roundtree, Secretary Alabama Press Associaition. MR. HARRISON—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a resolution, which is short and I think will commend itself to the convention. Resolution No. 173 by Mr. Harrison: Resolved, That the Committee on Rules be and are hereby re¬ stricted to fix the time in which all ordinances reported by com¬ mittees shall be considered by this convention and at the expira¬ tion of the time so fixed the previous question shall be considered as ordered and the convention shall proceed to vote upon the ordi¬ nance reported. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 Resolved further, That half of the time fixed by the Committee on Rules for the consideration of any ordinance shall be allowed to the committee reporting the same and the other half to those proposing amendments and opposing the ordinance. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR COBB—I ask unanimous consent to introduce two very short resolutions, in the interest of saving time to this convention, to be referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution 174 by Mr. Cobb. Resolved, That rule 17 of this convention be amended by strik¬ ing out the word “thirty” in the ninth line arid inserting the word “ten” so as to limit the right to close the debate—after the call for the previous question has been sustained, to ten minutes. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution 175 by Mr. Cobb: Resolved, That requests for leave of absence shall be made to the speaker who is empowered to grant the same without taking up the time of the convention. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I have a substitute for the Com¬ mittee’s resolution 151. MR. deGRAFFENREID— That is the resolution, that was under discussion on yesterday? • MR. GRAHAM—Yes. MR. deGRAFFENREID— Then I make the point of order that it is out of order. The point of order was then withdrawn. MR. SAMFORD—I will renew the objection, Mr. President. Let it come up in its regular order. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state to the gentleman from Talladega that this will be in order when that regular order is reached, and there is a motion which the Chair will place before the convention on this subject, just as soon as the gentleman from Greene returns. MR. LOMAX—I ask unanimous consent for the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights to submit a report, that it may be read and printed, and lie on the table. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman request that the report be read at this time? 782 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. LOMAX—That is the rule, as I understand it, THE PRESIDENT—The report will be read, lie on the table and be printed. MR. BLACKWELL—This is a minority report on the same subject and I ask that it be printed and lie on the table. THE PRESIDENT—Unanimous consent is asked that the report of the Committee be read; is there any objection to received and reading the report of the Committee on Preamble and Declar¬ ation of Rights? MR. PILLANS—I object sir. I think it will save time. MR. BOONE—Under the rules it has to be read twice, soon¬ er or later. MR. PILLANS—If my objection will avail, I insist upon it, because I think this convention is wasting too much time here in reading. The report will be printed, and each gentleman will read it, and it will then be read section by section. MR. LOMAX—The rules of this convention require that the report of a committee, and the article submitted by the committee, shall be read before this convention, before it shall lie on the table or be printed. If there is a single committee of this convention, whose report is unworthy to be read before it, that committee ought not to have been appointed by this convention. If there is an article in the proposed constitution that does not deserve to be heard by the delegates of the people, in convention assembled, we ought not to have such article in the constitution. I view of the objection of the gentleman from Mobile, I move that the rule? be suspended, and that the report be read for the information of the convention. MR. BROOKS—I rise to a point of order. The convention has already allowed the Chairman of the Committee to submit his report, and under the rules it must be read, unless the rules are suspended. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Montgomery asked unanimous consent to submit the report of the Committee on Pre¬ amble and Declaration of Rights, and that the report be read and lie on the table and be printed ; the Chair stated the question to the convention and there was objection. Now the gentleman from Montgomery moves a suspension of the rules. MR. LOMAX—I desire to say further, Mr. President, that whenever there comes a time in the history of constitutional gov¬ ernment, when a constitutional convention will refuse to hear read the declaration of the rights of the people, the time is ap¬ proaching when free government on the American continent will be in danger. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 783 MR. PILLANS.—A word, I shall not permit myself to be put in a false attitude by any eloquent remarks of a fellow delegate to this convention, without replying. We have set here twenty- five days I believe, and we have not yet adopted the first article reported to this convention. We have no prospect of ever getting through with our work at the present rate of progress. We halt at every turn, to discuss matters not connected with the organic law of the State, and I am here, sir, to object from this time out, to any unnecessary consumption of the time of the State, which is costing such a large sum of money, or of the time of delegates which they ill afford to spare to the State. Now, sir, I have no reason to believe that any gentleman will suspect me, in so ob¬ jecting, of being unwilling to have read to the convention any article reported by any committee, but under our rules these re¬ ports are printed; after they are printed they are read by each member of the convention, before he votes upon it, and desides that, there is a reading clerk who reads each section of each article before it is voted upon, and the progress we have made thus far. «hows that there has not been a section which has come up for consideration in this house that has not been carefully canvassed by every member of the convention, before we came to its con- sideration. Now sir, I want to disclaim any disrespect to the Committee whatever’, in making the objection. I feared that an objection would not prevent the reading, yet I said if my objection would avail, I would object; but it was without any discourteous intent, and merely with a view of objecting, on each occasion when there is a proposition to read anything that will have to be read again, and that will lie upon our desks in printed form. It was with that view I make the objection, and I do not care to consume more time on it now. MR. REESE—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. Under the regular order, at 11 o’clock, isn't the next order the reports of the standing committees, after the call of the roll for the introduction of ordinances, and would not the gentleman have a right to make a report without asking a suspension of the rules? MR. deGRAFFENRElD—And have it read. MR. REESE—To read this report now will consume the time which properly should go to the reading of resolutions, and ordinances and we shall have to suspend the rules to get these things in. MR. LOMAX—I desire to withdraw the motion to suspend the rules, because unanimous consent had already been granted to me, as I understand it, to offer that report to be read; under the rules it ought to be read to the convention, and the only reason I asked leave at this time to offer the report was in view of the 784 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS notice which had already been given by the gentleman from Hale, that he would move to suspend the rules and take up the report of the Committee on Executive Department. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Montgomery is mistaken. He made his request, and the Chair submitted the re¬ quest as was the duty of the Chair, to the Convention, and there¬ upon’the gentleman from Mobile objected. Thereupon the gen- tleman from Montgomery moved to suspend the rules. Does the Chair understand that motion is insisted upon? MR. LOMAX—Yes sir. I move to suspend the rules, and that the report of the Committee be read now. Upon a vote being taken, the rules were suspended, and the report of the Committee, and the Article accompanying the report, were read as follows: Mr. Browne here took the Chair. Report of the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights; Mr. President. The Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights in¬ structs me to report the Preamble and Declaration of Rights here to attached for adoption by this convention. The Committee has carefully examined and considered all of the ordinances referred to it and has incorporated the principles of some of them in the Article herewith reported. A large number of them have been rejected by the Committee because it was believed that the great and essential principles of liberty embodied in the bill of rights, being, as they are, the crystalization of the experience of cen¬ turies, should be preserved, as far as possible, from change and innovation. The changes which have been made in the present Article by omission of certain parts thereof have been made be¬ cause the omitted portions were not properly part and parcel of a solemn statement of the reserved rights of the people to uiiequivo- cally declare which is the aim and purpose of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution of our State. Some of the ordinances rejected by the Committee failed of adoption because it was evident that the object sought to be attained could be secured by legislative action and that, hence, they were not proper matter for Consti¬ tutional enactment. The few sections and parts of sections added by your Committee, and not proposed by any ordinance referred to it, were adopted because in the judgment of the Cominittee they made more clear and specific, and gave greater emphasis to, those rights of the people which are above and beyond the general power of government. f; All ordinances referred to the Committee are herewith re¬ spectfully returned. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 785 The following are the material changes reported: The preamble has been shortened merely with a view of con- forming to the practice of recent conventions, all of which have adopted the shorter form of preamble. To Section 5 of the Declaration of Rights the following words have been added; No law shall ever be passed to curtail or re¬ strain the liberty of speech or of the press. To Section 7 the following additions have been made: a pro¬ vision fixing in the Constitution the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf and, also, one permitting a motion by a defendant for a change of venue to be heard and determined in his absence. In Section 9 the named misdemeanors are stricken out and the words “In cases of misdemeanor” are inserted. There is added in Section 10 a provision that in cases fixed by law the trial judge may discharge a jury without the consent of the defendant. In Section 13 the words “for libel” are inserted in the first line so as to permit the truth thereof to be given in evidence. Section 23 is changed by prohibiting the General Assembly from granting any exclusive, as well as irrevocable, special privi- leges or immunities, and providing that all franchises, privileges and immunities shall be subject to revocation, alteration and amendment. There is added to Section 27 a provision requiring the Gen¬ eral Assembly to define small arms and to regulate the bearing of the same. The word “right,” as applied to suffrage, is stricken out and the word “privilege” inserted. Section 35 is stricken out as having no place in a Declaration of Rights. Section 38 is changed to Section 37 and also by striking out the prohibition against an educational or property qualification for suffrage. Section 38 is a new section prohibiting the exercise by one department of the government of any of the functions of either of the other departments thereof. Section 29 is retained as in the present Constitution with the addition of a declaration that the rights retained by the people are excepted out of the general powers of government and shall forever remain inviolate. 786 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Upon some of the sections of the Declaration of Rights re¬ ported herewith the members of the Committee are not unanimous and the dissenting members will either submit minority reports or reserve liberty of action when the Article reported is taken up for consideration by the convention. Tennent Lomax, Chairman. An Ordinance adopting a preamble and Declaration of Rights for the Constitution of the State of Alabama. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in con¬ vention assembled that the following shall be the Preamble and Declaration of Rights of the Constitution of this State: PREAMBLE. We, the people of the State of Alabama, in convention assembled, in order to establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility and secure the bless¬ ings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity—^invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God—do ordain and establish the following Constitution and form of government for the State of Alabama: article 1. Declaration of Rights. That the great, general and essential principles of liberty and free gov¬ ernment may be recognized and established, we declare 1. That all men are equally free and independent; that they are en¬ dowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. 2. That all persons resident in this State, born in the United States, or naturalized, or who shall have legally declared their intention to become citi¬ zens of the United States, are hereby declared citizens of the State of Ala¬ bama, possessing equal civil and political rights. 3. That all political power is inherent in the people, and all free gov¬ ernments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit, and that, therefore, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to change their form of government, in such manner as they may deem ex¬ pedient. 4. That no religion shall be established by law; that no preference shall be given by law to any religious sect, society, denomination, or mode of worship; that no one shall be compelled by law to attend any place of worship; nor pay any tithes, taxes or other rate for the building or repair¬ ing any place of worship, or for maintaining any minister or niinistry; that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust, under this State; and that the civil rights, privileges and capacities, of any citizen shall not be in any manner affected by his religious principles. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 787 5. No law shall ever be passed to curtail or restrain the liberty of speech or of the press; and any person may speak, write and publish his senti¬ ments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty. 6. That the people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions, from unreasonable seizures or searches, and that no warrant shall issue to search any place, or to seize any person or thing without proba¬ ble cause, supporting by oath or affirmation. 7. That in all criminal prosecutions, the accused has a right to be heard by himself and counsel, or either: to demand the nature and cause of the ac¬ cusation; to have a copy thereof; to be confronted by the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; to testify in all cases, in his own behalf, if he elects so to do; and in all prosecu¬ tions by indictment a speedy, public trial, by an impartial jury of the coun¬ ty or district in which the offense was committed; and that he shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty or property, but by due process of law; but the General Assembly may by a general law provide for a change of venue for the dependant * in all prose¬ cutions by indictment, and that such change of venue, on application of the defendant, may be heard and determined without the personal presence of the defendant so applying therefor. 8. That no person shall be accused of, arrested, or detained, except in case ascertained by law, and according to the forms which the same has prescribed; and no person shall be punished, but by virtue of a law estab¬ lished and promulgated prior to the offense, and legally applied. 9. That no person shall, for any indictable offense, be proceeded against criminally by information except in cases arising in the militia and vol¬ unteer forces when in actual service, or by leave of the court, for misfeas¬ ance, misdemeanor, extortion and oppression in office, otherwise than is provided in this Constitution; Provided, that in cases of misdemeanor, the General Assembly may, by law, dispense with a grand jury and au¬ thorize such prosecutions and proceedings before justices of the peace, or such other inferior courts as may be by law established. 10. That no person shall, for the same offense, be twice put in jeopardy of life, or limb; but courts may, for reasons fixed by law, discharge juries from the consideration of any case, and no person shall gain any advantage by reason of such discharge of the jury. 11. That no person shall be barred from prosecuting or defending, before any tribunal in this State, by himself or counsel, any civil cause to which he is a party. 12. That the right of trial by jury shall remain inviolate. 13. That in all prosecutions for libel or for publication of papers in¬ vestigating the official conduct of officers or men in public capacity, or when the matter published is proper for public information, the truth thereof may be given in evidence; and that in all indictments for libel, the jury shall 788 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS have the right to determine the law and the facts under the direction of the court 14. That all courts shall be open, and that every person, for any in¬ jury done him, in his lands, goods, person or reputation, shall have a remedy by due process of law; and rights and justice shall be administered without sale, denial or delay. 15. That the State of Alabama shall never be made a defendant in any court of law or equity. 16. That excessive fines shall not be imposed, nor cruel or unusual punishment inflicted. 17. That all persons shall, before conviction, be bailable by sufficient sureties, except for capital offenses, when the proof is evident, or the pre¬ sumption great; and that excessive bail shall not in any case be required. 18. That the privileges of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be sus¬ pended by the authorities of this State. 19. That the treason against the State shall consist only in levying war against it, or adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort; and that no person shall be convicted of treason, except on the testimony of two wit¬ nesses to the same overt act, or his confession in open court. 20. That no person shall be attainted of treason by the General Assem¬ bly; and that no conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate. 21. That no person shall be imprisoned for debt. 22. That no power of suspending laws shall be exercised, except by the General Assembly. 23. That no ex post facto law, or any law, impairing the obligation of contracts, or making any irrevocable or excessive grants of special privileges, or immunities, shall be passed by the General Assembly; and every grant of a franchise, privilege or immunity shall forever remain subject to revocation, alteration or amendment. 24. That the exercise of the right of eminent domain shall never be abridged nor so constructed as to prevent the General Assembly from taking the property and franchises of incorporated companies, and subjecting them to public use the same as individuals; but private property shall not be taken or applied for public use, unless just compensation be first made therefor; nor shall private property be taken for private use, or for the use of corpora¬ tions, other than municipal, without the consent of the owner; provided, however, that the General Assembly may, by law, secure to persons or cor¬ porations, and by general laws provide for and regulate the exercise by per¬ sons and corporations of the rights herein reserved, but just compensation shall in all cases be first made to the owner; and, provided, that the right of eminent domain shall not be so construed as to allow taxation or forced CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 789 25 That all navigable waters shall remain forever public highways, free 25. That an navigao without tax, impost or to the citizens of the State, and ot tne . .. . demanded or re- favS'bk stream, eal.as the same are eapresaly aathorixe,! by law. address or remonstrance. law small arms, and regulate the bearing of same. 28. That no standing rrse„fon;:“„:rr »arT;.'ra irer:. prescribed by law. m Th.t no title of nobility or hereditary distinction, privilege, honor 1 t <;hall ever be granted or conferred in this State; and t at no SfirshTbe created the appointment to which shall be for a longer time than during good behavior. 31. That immigration shall be encouraged, emigration shall not be prohibited, and that no citizen shall be exiled. 32. That temporary absence from the State shall not cause a forfeiture of residence once obtained. tt Thuf nn form of slavery shall exist in this State; and there shall „o.t ."Vyirry s/,.u„de, o.h.rwjs. .bx„ .or .be pobbshmen. o. crime, of which the party shall have been duly convicted. 34 The privilege of suffrage shall be protected by laws regulating elections, and prohibiting, under adequate penalties all undue influences rom power, bribery, tumult, or other improper conduct. 35 Foreigners who are or may hereafter become bona fide residents of thisStL, shall enjoy the same rights in respect to the possession, enjoy¬ ment and inheritance of property, as native born citizens. 36 That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to nroteci the StifeL in the enjoyment of life, liberty and property, and when [he government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression. 790 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 37. That no restraint upon the privilege of suffrage on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude, shall be made by law, 38. In the government of this State, except in the instance in this Con¬ stitution hereinafter expressly directed or permitted, the legislative depart¬ ment shall never exercise the executive or judicial powers, or either of them; the executive shall never exercise the legislative and judicial powers, or either of them; the judicial shall never exercise the legislative and executive powers, or either of them; to the end that it may be a government of laws and not of men. 39. That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that every thing in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall for¬ ever remain inviolate. The undersigned member of the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights concurs in the majority of said report save as to portions of Section 7 and he offers as amendment to por¬ tions of Section 7 the following: And in all prosecutions by indictment the place in the County or district in which the crime was committed shall be stated with reasonable certainty as to enable the defendant to know the par¬ ticular place where the criminal act is alleged to have been com¬ mitted. Respectfully submitted, J. H. Barefield. The undersigned members of the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights do not concur in the foregoing report of the Committee so far as it relates to Section 12, Article I for the fol¬ lowing reasons: In every relation of life in Alabama where the result is de¬ pendent upon the opinions and decisions of a number of persons, the principal of majority rule governs, with the single exception of a verdict of a jury. Why should a unanimous verdict on a question of fact be required and enforced from a jury? A ma¬ jority of one vote in this Convention either puts a proposition in the organic law or rejects it. A majority of one vote in each House of the General Assembly creates, repeals or modifies a posi¬ tive law, regardless of the magnitude of the interests involved. A majority of the Senate of the United States ratifies or refuses to consent to a treaty with a foreign power. A majority of a single vote in a half a million in a pivotal State may elect a President of the United States, change the policy of government and bring prosperity or ruin to seventy millions of people. And yet the ma¬ jority of the Committee deny this principal to a verdict of a jury in a civil suit at law. When a judgment is entered on a unanimous CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 791 verdict, if an appeal is taken to the Supreme Court of the State it can be then finally adjudicated by a bare majority of the justices. So in the Supreme Court of the United States five of the Justices against four held the income tax unconstitutional; and in the same Court five of the Justices held that Porto Rico was not under the Constitution, and four that it was. Again in all ministerial and executive bodies the majority rules, and the will of the minority when lawfully expressed. For these reasons we think that the pro- vision authorizing three-fourths of a jury to render a verdict in a civil case should become a part of our Constitution as it is ot several other important States of the Union. We therefore recommend as a substitute for Section 12, Article I as reported by the Committee, the following; Art. I, Sec. 12. The right of trial by jury as heretofore en¬ joyed, shall remain inviolate, but in civil actions three-fourths of the jury may render a verdict. Respectfully submitted, Sam’l Blackwell, E. P. Wilson, T. J. Cornwell. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—Under the rules, the report of the Committee will be printed and lie on the table. MR. VAUGHAN—I have a short resolution referring to the report that has just been read, which I would like to offer. Permission was given, and the resolution read as follows. Resolution No. 176, by Mr. Vaughan; Resolved, That the report of the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights shall be taken up and disposed of imme¬ diately after the report of the Committee on Taxation is disposed of.” MR. LOMAX—I move you, sir, that the rules be suspended and that that resolution be put upon its immediate passage. Upon a vote being taken to suspend the rules, a division was demanded. A reading of the resolution was called for, and the resolution again read. MR. SANFORD—I called for a division, and after hearing the resolution again read, I now withdraw the call. A vote being taken the rules were suspended, and upon a further vote being taken the resolution was adopted 792 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR REESE—I ask unanimous consent to have a very short ordinance read and referred to a Committee. THE PRESIDENT, PRO TEM. — The gentleman asks unaJ^us c“ n.;1s there objeetion? The Cleric will read the ordinance. MR. WADDELL— There is a motion pending befor^ the House. THE PRESIDENT, PRO TEM.—What motion? MR. WADDELL— The motion of the gentleman from Hale. MR. deGRAFFENREID— The house can proceed by unani- mous consent. MR. WADDELL—I call for the regular order. THE PRESIDENT, PRO TEM.—Objection is made— MR REESE—I make the point of order that it was submitted to the House, and no objection was made. THE PRESIDENT, PRO TEM.-The point of order is well taken. The chair submitted it to the House and no objection was made. The objection comes too late. Ordinance 392, by Mr. Reese was read as follows: Ordinance No. 392, by Mr. Reese of Dallas; An ordinance to be entitled Section-of Article IV. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, ARTICLE IV. LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT. Section — All members of the legislature, and the Lieutenant Covernor before they enter upon the execution of the duties of their respective offices, shall take the following oath or affirmation, to wit: “T __, solemnly swear (or affirm as the case may be) that T 'will support the Constitution of the United States and t e SsritllriLnTth: state of Alabama, so Ion, as I cont.nue a c.t.- thereof and I do specially swear (or affirm as the case may be) that I will faith^lly^and hojsNy^up^oM tuLon^ and thaU will’ faithfully and honestly discharge the d^tms S the’ officrupon which I am about to enter to the best of my ability so help me God.” Which oath may be administered by CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 793 the presiding officer of either House of the legislature, or any officer authorized by law to administer oaths. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. MR. BEDDOW—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a short ordinance, to be referred to the Committee on Executive De¬ partment. It is on a point that is about to be reached in their report. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I am not going to object to the reading of that, but I want to give notice that I will object to any further suspension of the regular order. THE PRESIDENT, PRO TEM.—The gentleman asks unani¬ mous consent to introduce an ordinance— MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I object. MR. BEDDOW—I ask the gentleman to withdraw it. It is on a subject that will come up for consideration today. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I withdraw it this time, but I will give notice that I will object to any further suspension of the rules. The ordinance was read as follows: Ordinance No. 393, by Mr. Beddow: An ordinance to create a State Board of Arbitration. Section 1. The Legislature shall establish a State Board of Arbitration of which the Commissioner of Agriculture and In¬ dustries shall be ex-officio Secretary. Sec. 2. Whenever any disputes arise in any industry in this State between employers and employes, the different parties di¬ rectly interested may agree to submit the matter in dispute to be arbitrated by the State Board of Arbitration, which shall be or¬ ganized as follows. Each party in the dispute shall notify the Secretary of the Board of their intention to submit their dispute to arbitration, and each certify to him the names oi two persons to be commissioned by him to act as arbitrators. The Secretary of the Arbitration Board shall call the arbitrators so commissioned by him to meet at the Capitol at Montgomery at as early a date as practical, who will proceed to organize by electing a disinterested person to set as umpire in case they fail to agree. The Board so organized shall take cognizance of such disputes only as voluntarily submitted to it for adjudication; but the Secretary shall have power to en¬ force all of its awards conferred upon it by the Legislature. 794 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec. 3. The Legislature shall provide by law for the expense necessarily incurred by the Board. Referred to Committee on Executive Department. MR PROCTOR—The attention of the Chair is called to the fact “t fhte is pending a motion made by the gentleman from Hale. . . MR deGRAFFENREID—That motion is pending, but it is no longer necessary that it should be put the hour of 11 has arrived, and, under the rules time has arrived for the consideration and discussion of the ve y matter to which the motion was addressed. MR O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask unanimous leave to offer an ordinance, to be referred to the Committee on Preamble with¬ out reading. MR. LOMAX—Mr. President, the rules require it to be read. There being no objection made, the ordinance was read as follows: Ordinance No. 394, by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) : To amend the first proviso of Section 24 of Article I, of the Contistution. Be it ordained, by the people of Alabama in Convention as- sembled. That the first proviso of Section 24 of Art cle 1. oj ^ oresent Constitution be amended so as to read as follows. however that the General Assembly may, by law, secure to arsons orcorpora?tons! and by general laws provide for and re^ late the exercise by persons and corporations of the rig reserved but just compensation shall, in all cases, be first made to the owner; but, in case one railroad corporation finds it neces sarv to cross with its line of railroad the track of another such corooration and such corporations cannot agree as to what amount in damages’should be paid by the corporation ntr to the corporation whose track is to be crossed, the Railroad Commission of the State is authorized, and it is hereby made their duty upon written application of the corporations seeking sue ri^ht of crosTing and after notice to the other corporation thereof a?d evidence received from the parties, to fix the amount of said damage which will be sustained by the corporation, whose track is to be ’crossed, and when the amount so fixed by said Commission is paid to the corporation whose track is to be crossed, or, in event of its refusal to accept the same, is deposited with the said commission for said corporation, such ^v fa^^ without further delay, subject, however, to the payment, by said corporation making such crossing, of any further damages; whic CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 795 may be recovered as just compensation by the corporation whose track is so crossed. Referred to Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rig^hts, THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The question before the Convention, as the Chair renjembers it, is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Greene, to the amendment of the gentleman from Macon— MR. deGRAFFENREID—To the resolution of Mr. O’Neal. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—To the resolution reported by the committee, but there is an amendment pending, offered by the gentleman from Greene, to an amendment or substitute of- ferred by the gentleman from Macon, as the Chair understands it. The Chair is informed thal the gentleman from Macon did not prepare and send up his amendment. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Greene on the table. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—That was voted on yes¬ terday. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Then I move that it be indefi¬ nitely postponed. MR. COBB—I think my amendment was accepted by the committee and incorporated in their report, as I understand it. MR. O’NEAL—I withdraw the motion which I made, Mr. President. MR. COBB—My amendment was accepted by the committee, and incorporated into their report. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—It was in the original report, and the original report was misread. That was the cause of the misunderstanding. Now I M'ithdraw my motion. I rise to a point of order— THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. O’NEAL—What is the question before the House? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The question before the Convention is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Greene, to the resolution of the gentleman from Lauderdale, as reported by the committee. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—On yesterday, when I offered that amendment I did not have the resolution before me, and as I stated, I could not remember the exact wording of it. Upon 796 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS examining the amendment this morning, I see it fails to strike out the word provided. To make it grammatical, it should have been offer “move to strike out the following words: “provided the same can be done without an increase of taxation in this State,” and substitute therefor the words “if in the discretion of the General Assembly it is for the best interest of the State.” THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The gentleman asks unani¬ mous consent to correct the amendment offered on yesterday. If there is no objection, the gentleman’s amendment will be corrected, and the clerk read the amendment as corrected. The amendment was read as follows: Motion to amend resolution No. 151, offered by Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale), reported favorably by the committee; amendment by Mr. Coleman (Greene). Move to amend the resolution by striking out the following words “provided the same can be done without an increase of taxation in the State,” and substitute there¬ for the words “if in the discretion of the General Assembly it is for the best interest of the State of Alabama.” THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Greene to the resolu¬ tion as reported by the committee. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President and delegates of this convention, I am always willing to meet in discussion any question which may be presented to this Convention, and have my conclusions made after a full discussion of the same. We ask no favors, but we desire at least an opportunity to express our views. I was, therefore, astonished that I should be met this morning in the first instance by a motion to lay this amendment on the table, or by any other movement, of the delegates of this Conven¬ tion, which would cut off free debate upon so important a measure. If it be not out of order, Mr. President, I am contrained to add what I wished to withhold, that is, information that since the adjournment, parties who are opposed to this resolution have seen proper not to submit the case to discussion here, and to be decided by you, but upon an ordinance to be passed and become a part of the organic law. There has been what might be termed button¬ hole pleading and log-rolling. I believe that every man here should be guided by his convictions upon the facts of the case, and he who does less does not properly represent any constituency. I hope that I was misinformed. Mr. President and delegates of this Con¬ vention, I have but little more to add to what was said yesterday. It seems to me, after further consideration, that this question should be left with the Legislature, and, after examining the sala¬ ries of Governors of many States, I have been unable to find a single State where the salary of the Governor reaches $5,000 and the revenues are the same or approximately the same, as in Ala- CONvSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 19()1 797 bama. If I am mistaken, I would be happy to he corrected. I have the li.-^t of those States in my pocket. In one or two in¬ stances I failed to get the latest Code, but I will state to you as far as I coidd ascertain, the salaries of the Governors of the dif¬ ferent States whose population and revenues are somewhat similar to our own. North Carolina, the salary is fixed at $3,000; in Ohio, in 1880, at a time when the population and revenues were largely in excess of what ours are today, it was fixed at $4,000. MR. (iR.AHA.M (Talladega;—I want to ask a question in connection with that statement. MR. COLEMAN—Yes, sir. MR. CjR.AH.AM—Will you please state which of these States have (jovernor’s mansions in connection wdth the .salaries? MR. COLEMAN—In the Constitution? MR. GRAHAM—Whether in the ConstitiTtion or otherwise —whether or not there is not a mansion included with the salary? MR. SAMFORD—And incidental expenses? MR. COLEMAN—I am glad the gentleman has made the inquiry, although it diverts me from the course of my remarks. If these gentlemen had introduced a resolution that a mansion should be provided for the Governor, it would not have the same objections to it, because it would be the property of the State. Under the proposed regulation to increase the salary $2,000 a year, in five years you wdll have paid $10,000 and the State will have nothing to show for it, but if you lake the $10,000 and pur¬ chase a mansion for the Governor, at the end of the ten years the State will still own this mansion. I hope the gentleman is an¬ swered. That is very different, Mr. President, and delegates of this Convention, from paying out the $2,000 annually, and the State have nothing to show for it—and even that should be left, in the condition in which we are placed, to the discretion of the Legislature. Tennessee has a salary of $4,000; South Carolina has a salary of $3,.S00—I did not see the last Code. The salary of Georgia’s Governor, $3,000; Arkansas, the salary, $3,000. Georgia has a furnished mansion, and Georgia owns it; the Governor does not own it. When Alabama procures a mansion, it will belong to the State. MR, SAMFORD—How about the incidental expenses. Judge? MR. COLEMAN—The gentleman says how about the inci¬ dental expenses? I presume that depends very much upon the Governor. We have been told in .some instances that they have expended from $4,000 to $5,000 out of their pockets for incidentals or something, T don’t know what; anyhow, it has been expended, but even that does not reach the question. Why should not that 798 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS be left to the Legislature? In West Virginia, the salary is $3,700. In Mississippi, in 1892, $3,500. MR. deGRAFFENREID—And a mansion. MR. COLEMAN—That, gentlemen, gives you an idea of what other States are doing in fixing salaries for their Governors, and why should Alabama ordain here that the salary of the Gov¬ ernor should be fixed at $5,000. Why not leave it in the discretion of the Legislature, and let the Legislature increase that salary as the revenues of the State will justify it? I have said again and again, that if we adopt this resolution, we will transgress the au¬ thority supposed to be vested in us by the election of this body. I repeat, it was not discussed before the people, and they have and do expect that we attend to the important duty of the franchise, and they circumscribed us in all other respects as to the limits that we should go. We notice—and I call your attention to it—the continuous efforts being made to impress this Convention with the idea that the platform and the pledge was unfortunate; that we should not be bound by it. I don’t know where gentlemen get authority to disregard a pledge upon which they were elected. I had never heard it asserted by any true Democrat before. Why are we not bound by the pledges? Were they not the express will of the people at that time? MR. OATES—If you won’t mind an interruption, I can give you a very illustrious case: Cleveland was elected on a platform which required the repeal of the 10 per cent, tax, and the first man I heard speak out and say that he was not bound by it, was W. J. Bryan. MR. COLEMAN—^And where is W. J. Bryan today? (Laugh¬ ter.) And perhaps—and I mean nothing personal about it—per¬ haps he who has mentioned him here as an example for us has been following his ways most closely himself. Have not you been patterning after Mr. Bryan a little too closely yourself. MR. OATES—I don’t know what in. MR. COLEMAN—The gentleman says “I don’t know what in.” I don’t know but I simply apply the old rule that like causes produce like results. Now, Mr. President, I trust that every dele¬ gate upon this floor will cast his vote remembering his duty as a Democrat and his duty to the State, and that is all that I ask. MR. KNOX—I had not intended, Mr. President, after the discussion on yesterday to renew it this morning. The gentleman from Greene made two arguments on yesterday, but it seems he was not satisfied with the case then made, and he makes another one this morning. I do not understand what he means by gentle¬ men buttonholing delegates. Does he mean that when an impor- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 799 tant matter is pending- before this Convention, that delegates to this Convention are not authorized to discuss those questions ex¬ cept upon the floor of the Convention? I remember when an im¬ portant matter was pending before the Committee on Suffrage, of which the gentleman is the distinguished Chairman, and there was not entire harmony in that committee, no gentleman was more active in buttonholing delegates than the distinguished gentleman from Greene. Mr. President, the gentleman objects to increasing the salary of the Governor because the question was not submitted to the people, but I remember that in the Constitutional Convention of 1875, when the salaries of the Judges of the Supreme Court of this State were reduced to three thousand dollars, just the same amount at which the salary of the Governor was placed, that the Legisla¬ ture increased the salary of the Supreme Court Judges of which the distinguished gentleman enjoyed the benefit for quite a number of years, and we never heard, Mr. President, that that was unlawful because it had not been submitted to a vote of the people. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I did not understand the remark —I did not catch it. MR. KNOX—I said, and I was arguing that it is competent for a Legislature and it is competent for a Constitutional Con- v^ention to pass upon questions when they arise before it without submitting them to the people. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—With your permission—I under¬ stood you to make some reference to some gentleman not com¬ plaining at an increase of the salary. MR. KNOX—I did not individualize any gentleman, but stated that when the salaries of the Supreme Court Judges of this State were increased from three thousand dollars, I never heard it objected that it was improper for the increase be made because the question for a vote upon the direct issue. The gentleman from Greene occupied the office of Solicitor in th is State for quite a number of years, in one of the most important districts in the State. It was before the salary system went into effect. And it is generally understood that the solicitorship in that territory was worth from five thousand to ten thousand dollars a year. The gentleman, I believe, retired from the office after it was reduced, or just before it was reduced to three thousand dollars. It seems to me, Mr. President, that the people of Alabama ought to be willing and I am sure they are willing to pay the Chief Executive of this State a decent salary. Suppose the salary is in¬ creased. Why, it would raise the taxes per capita less than one cent. And where is the patriotic citizen of Alabama— a delegate suggests it would not be that much—I am sure it would not be 800 CMfFIOAIi PROCEEDINGS more« but Wherii is the patriotk citizen t}f Aisbatna who is not willing: that the Oiief Executive ol this State should be able to hold up bis headr*«should be so equipped as that he can sustain the diiTttity of the State. I argued yesterday, and I repeat it, if it was competent for ^ Constitutional Convention of 1875, when the people were prostrate and financially embarrassed, to reduce the salaries, it is competent for the delegates to this Convention to give expression to an opinion that this salary should now be increased. You have refused to increase it. A number of delegates upon this floor voted against an increase because they thought it was the proper province of the Legfislature. I submit that it is competent in view of that action which you have taken rather than give color to the idea that you are opposed to fair and proper com¬ pensation, you should give expression to the opinion that you thinlj the Legislature, to whom you refer the matter, should increase it provided it can be done without increasing taxation. I do not believe, Mr. President, that in any part of this State there is any sentiment among the people which would withhold the granting of a just increase. The salaries of the Judges of the Supreme Court have been increased, why not increase the compensation of the Chief Executive, who represents the dignity of the State, who is subjected to many more expenses than the Judges of the Supreme Court. The reports that come to me from different counties in this State since this discussion has reached the people are to the effect that the people favor and want some increase made. What¬ ever we do will be submitted for the approval of the people. We are here as their delegates and whatever we do we will submit for their ratification; but we ought not to fail, Mr. President, to do what we think is right and then submit it to the approval of the people. The passage of this resolution will not put it into the Constitution. It is not a part of the organic law. It is merely an expression on the part of the delegates to this Convention that in our judgment this increase should be made in the Governor’s salary, if in the judgment of the Legislature it can be done with- . out increasing taxation and Mr. President, as this discussion.bas been protracted to such length, unless the gentleman from Creene desires to further discuss it, I move the previous question. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman from Cal¬ houn moves the previous question unless the gentleman from Greene desires to be heard further. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Greene. MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a point of inquiry. I have the right to do that. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman will state the point of inquiry. MR. SAMFORD^—My recollection of the rule is that no dele¬ gate shall be permitted to speak more than twice on any point. CONSTITimONAt CONVfeflTIOt^, 1901 801 THE president PRO TEM—1 think thfere Is sUch a rule, but the Chair does not understand that the delegate frbta has spoken twice on this question. But he spoke yesterday on Ae motion %oMy on the table and today he is speaking on the amendniient which he offered. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman will state his point of order. MR SMITH—^No two amendments were offered. The amend¬ ment of ‘ yesterday was corrected and there was unanimous con- sent that he might correct a clerical error, as I understand it, at any rate no amendment. The rule provides a tnover may speak twice, no other more than once—the gentleman has spoken three times. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair will state his understanding: When the gentleman from <^’'®®"\ he had inadvertently made errors m the drawing of his amend¬ ment the Chair stated that to correct a^t^ bv amendment or unanimous consent. If it had been a matter o right the Chair would not have required that he obtain unanimous consent, becanse in the opinion of the Cha.r no change could be made except by way of amendment. MR KNOX—I earnestly request the gentleman from Mobile (Mr. Smith) to withdraw his objection and allow the gentleman from Greene to be heard. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair overrules the point of order because the Chair consider the correction asked to be made by the gentleman from Greene was an amendment. MR COLEMAN—Mr. President, I do not wish to be regarded as making a speech, but as making a request; there may be other gentlemen upon this floor much more able to Pf®?®"^ fion than myLlf: I do not wish to have them excluded, but if they are not permitted. I claim mv right to reply. MR KNOX—The time of this Convention is too valuable to be consumed in further discussion of this question, I did not pre^ the call for the previous question, because L desired to hear fr^ the gentleman from Greene, if he desired to discuss further He will\e entitled to speak if he wishes, but I thought it would be more satisfactory for him to make his argument at this time. I renew my motion for the previous question. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—As the chair understands the rule, after the previous question has been ordered, it will then be in order for the gentleman to close. 802 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JENKINS—^The grentleman from Greene has never given up his right to close. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The chair will hold that the gentleman from Greene, as the mover of the amendment, will have the right to close the debate after the previous question shall have been ordered. The question is. Shall the main question be now put on the amendment, or on the amendment and report? MR. KNOX—On the amendment and report. A vote being taken, the previous question was ordered. MR. COLEMAN—Mr. President and delegates to the Con¬ vention, some of the remarks of the distinguished President of this Convention had a double effect upon me. I regretted that he saw proper to refer to me, especially individually, but it was gratifying to know that he did not have much else to say in support of his proposition. I was arraigned here for resigning my office as solicitor to accept that of Chancellor. The salaries were about the same, and I preferred to move upwards, and did the best service for the State that I knew how. It is said that what¬ ever we do here must be submitted to the people. There I wish to make this statement, that if any delegate upon this Conven¬ tion thinks he can tie on to this Constitution unnecessary burdens and weights—that it will be carried through anyhow—they are laboring under a great mistake. We come here for relief from my section of the country. MR. BOONE—Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—Will the gentleman allow himself to be interrogated? MR. COLEMAN—I hate to be discourteous to anybody. MR. BOONE—Will the gentleman from Lauderdale (Mr. O’Neal), if passed by this Convention, be a part of the Constitution to be submitted to the people? MR. COLEMAN—^That is a very unfair way of putting the proposition. I was going on to mention the fact-^because we are just in the beginning; we are right now at the threshold of adopt¬ ing a Constitution for the State of Alabama. If you lay down a precedent now, it is sure to be taken advantage of by other reso¬ lutions or ordinances to increase other salaries. Mark well the statement. If we burden this Constitution with unnecessary weights, it is my honest opinion, it will not be ratified. As I started to say, my section of country needs relief, great relief, but gentlemen must not think that we will sacrifice everything else, and particularly the pledges made to the Democratic party in or- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 803 der to get that relief, unless you give us a Constitution that we can live under, and that comes squarely and fairly up to the provisions and agreements we made by which this Convention was held, it is my opinion that it will not be. I fear the delegates do not understand sufficiently with what they are tampering, with what we may lose; and, delegates of the Convention, it is the beginning and inauguration of a precedent that may lead to disas¬ trous results. I have said all upon the other proposition that I saw proper to say, except that I call your attention to the fact that my statement as to salaries of Governors of other States was not questioned, although I asked to be corrected if there was any State in the Union of similar population and revenues that paid its Governor $5,000. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The question is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Greene, with the resolution reported by the committee of the gentleman from Morgan. MR. JENKINS—Upon that I call for the ayes and nays. A vote being taken the previous question was ordered. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The question is on the amendment of the delegate from Greene. The yeas and nays being called and the call sustained, the result of the roll call was as follows: AYES. Ashcraft, Glover, Palmer, Barefield, Grayson, Parker (Elmore), Bartlett, Greer, of Perry, Pearce, Beavers, Handley, Pettus, Blackwell, Harrison, Phillips, Browne, Henderson, Porter, Bulger, Hodges, Reynolds (Chilton), Byars, Jackson, Reynolds (Henry), Cardon, Jenkins, Rogers (Sumter), Carnathon, Kirk, Sen tell, Case, Long (Butler), Sloan, Chapman, Long (Walker), Smith, Mac. A., Coleman, of Greene, Miller (Marengo), Sorrell, Cornwall, Moody, Spragins, Davis, of DeKalb, Mulkey, Stewart, Davis, of Etowah, Murphree, Studdard, Fletcher, NeSmith, Vaughan, Foshee, Opp, Williams (Barbour). Freeman, O’Rear, Total—56. 804 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS NOES. Messrs. President, Hood. O'Neal (Lauderdale), Almon, Howell, O’Neill (Jefferson), Banks, Howze, Parker (Cullman), Beddow, Inge, Pitts, Bethune, Jones, of Bibb, Proctor, Boone, Jones, of Hale, Reese, Brooks, Jones, of Montgomery, Robinson, Burnett, Jones, of Wilcox, Rogers (Lowndes), Burns, Knight, Samford, Carmichael, of Coffee, Kyle, Sanders, Cobb, Ledbetter, Sanford, Cofer, Leigh, Selheimer, Craig, Locklin, Smith (Mobile), Cunningham, Lomax, Smith, Morgan M., Dent, Lowe (Jefferson), Tayloe, deGraffenreid, Lowe (Lawrence), Thompson, Duke, Macdonald, Waddell, Eley, McMillan (Baldwin), Walker, Espy, McMillan (Wilcox), Watts, Fitts, Malone, Weakley, Foster, Martin, White, Graham, of Montgomery, Maxwell, Whiteside, Graham, of Talladega, Miller (Wilcox), Willet, Grant, Morrisette, Williams (Marengo), Greer, of Calhoun, Norman, Wilson (Clarke), Heflin, of Chambers, Norwood, Wilson (Washington), Hinson, Oates, T otal™80. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Altman, Heflin, of Randolph, Searcy, Carmichael, of Colbert, King, Sollie, Coleman, of Walker, Kirkland, Spears, Eyster, Merrill, Weatherly, Ferguson, Pillans, Williams (Elmore), Gilmore, Renfro, Winn. Haley, MR. BURNS (during roll call)—With a view of moving a reconsideration I vote no. So the amendment was lost. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move the adoption of the resolu¬ tion offered by Mr. O’Neal. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM. — The previous question was ordered upon the original resolution, as well as the amend- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 805 The question is on adoption of the resolution offered by the gentleman from Lauderdale. MR. JACKSON—Am I too late to offer an amendment? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—Yes. The previous ques- tion has been ordered. Upon a viva voce, the resolution was adopted. the president pro TEM.-The Clerk will read the next section of the report of the committee. MR. SAMFORD - I rise to a point of inquiry. Does that take precedence over the regular order. THE CLERK—This is a part of the report. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM. - The Chair under^ands committee as to this section. nyn? tciNE^ f MontGTomery) —I ask unanimous consent in MR. JON Lb q.smter who has an ordinance on THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.-Unless there is objection the comLtle will be allowed to ntalce the adverse report. The report was read as follows; Mr. President: it do not pass. Thomas G. Jones, Chairman. A/TT? pnrPRS rSumter) — I desire to have the ordinance .ead^and fmov^thaUtT^ sibstituted for the report of the com- mittee. The ordinance was read as follows: Ordinance 372, by Mr. Rogers of Sumter: The returns for evetT ernor. Secretary of |tat«^ ^ Commissioner of Agriculture Superintendent up and transmitted by the re- and Industries, shall be seal P ^ ^^^d directed to the turning officers to the ^^^^atives, who shall, during the S week o‘f the °ses'sion, to which such returns shall be made, 806 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS open and publish them in the presence of both houses of the Gen¬ eral Assembly in joint convention; but the Speaker’s duty and the duty of the joint convention shall be purely ministerial. The result of the election shall be ascertained and declared by the Speaker from the face of the returns without delay. The person having the highest number of votes for any one of said offices shall be declared duly elected, but if two or more per¬ sons shall have an equal and the highest number of votes for the same office the General Assembly, by joint vote, without delay, shall choose one of said persons for said office. Contested elections for Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Sec¬ retary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General, Superin- tendant of Education and Commissioner of Agriculture and In¬ dustries shall be determined by both houses of the General As- sembly in such manner as may be prescribed by law. MR. SAMFORD—I ask for a reading* of the report of the Committee. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman from Sum¬ ter has the floor. If he will yield— MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I consent to the reading of the report of the Committee. I would like very much to have it read in this connection. The report was read as follows: The Committee on Executive Department instructs me to report the following substitute for Section 4 of the ordinance ''to create and define the Executive Department/’ and the pend¬ ing amendments, to wit: Strike out Section 4 as it now stands and insert in lieu there¬ of the following words: "Sec. 4. The returns of every election for Governor, Lieu¬ tenant-Governor, Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treas¬ urer, Attorney General, Superintendent of Education and Com¬ missioner of Agriculture and Industries shall be sealed up and transmitted by the returning officers to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who shall, during the first week of the ses¬ sion to which said returns shall be made, open and publish them in the presence of both Houses of the General Assembly, in joint Convention. The joint convention shall supervise and control the Speaker in the discharge of this duty and has power, first, to determine whether the returns are in legal form, made by the proper officers, and truly give the results as ascertained and de¬ clared by the Board of Supervisors in the several counties; sec¬ ond, to correct such errors as may be found therein; third to CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 807 procure proper returns when, for any cause, returns from any county have failed to reach the Speaker. The joint convention shall have no power to question the returns as to any other matters, or in any other respect. The person found to have the highest number of votes for either of said offices shall be declared duly elected; but if two or more persons shall have an equal and the highest num¬ ber of votes for the same office, the General Assembly by joint vote, without delay, shall choose one of said persons for said of¬ fice. Contests of elections for Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, State Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney Gen¬ eral, Superintendent of Education and Commissioner of Agricul¬ ture and Industries, shall be determined by both Houses of the General Assembly in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The Committee recommends the adoption of the substitute. Thomas G. Jones, Chairman. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—The original Section was recom¬ mitted to the Executive Committee with the hope that they would return a Section which would at least remove the objections that exists to the Section as first reported. Instead of removing the objections, they have intensified them, by that part of the Com¬ mittee’s report which begins and reads as follows: “The joint convention shall supervise and control the Speaker in all discharge of this duty, and has power to determine whether the returns are in legal form, made by the proper officers and truly give the re¬ sults as ascertained and declared by the Board of Supervisors in the several counties; second, to correct such errors as may be found therein; third, to procure proper returns, when for any cause the returns from any county have failed to reach the Speak¬ er; the joint convention shall have no power to question the re¬ turns as to any other matters or in any other respect. Now, Mr. President, I submit in what other matters would the joint convention have the right to question the returns? The laws of this State provide that the ballots shall be counted in the counties where they are cast, by the Probate Judge, the Clerk and the Sheriff, and if they are all of one party that they shall sum¬ mon three other persons of a different party to be present, to hear the returns; that these officers shall certify the result, and send it sealed to the proper officers at the State Capitol. It further provides that if any one wants to contest any election, he shall give bond and shall make his case before the joint convention of the General Assembly, the Senate and House, but the func¬ tions of the Speaker of the House, in the joint convention, and those of the joint convention, when this body is first assembled, should be purely ministeiial. That is to say, they should per¬ form their duties, which are set out for them by law, and they should not go behind any returns, without there be sufficient OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS evidence brought before them, by a proper person contesting the returns. It so happened, several years ago, when distinguished France Pcttus o g„tlemen Sir:perup, can,e Wo. him He *en wiseiy «iy ard".t.te\ad\ngh.1^^^^^ gHnY,hrre?urnsrbu. that his important matter ,s one «,a, s f « several coun- result of It Will be to destroyer self-gov- Sve to do is to say that ‘We Snce wS ii Se peopCrnd* rtrow them out, and put anybody in office they may wish to. Whv Mr President, there is no question but what this last eepor. is \"«f , ‘h; I the whole ordinance be- point passed upon by Spets'„X“';„^°ov“lr.hr?w thaf decision, SSllSS5ri~S ESI? S be submitted to the Joint Convention and the Speaker. It CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 809 simply says that the result of the election shall be transmitted in sealed envelopes to the proper officials. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I shall very briefly state the reasons of the Committee for not adopting the suggestion made by my friend from Sumter. The present Constitution, as we all know, left open to discussion wide differences of opinion as to the power of the Speaker. It was sometimes contended that the two Houses were mere witnesses; that the Speaker alone opened and declared the result. A contrary view was asserted. In the original section, the Committee thought it wise to declare that the Speaker on that occasion, was the servant of the joint con¬ vention. It went no further, because it believed that there were contingencies which might arise, where it was better to leave the 133 men, who compose the two Houses and represent the sov¬ ereignty and power of Alabama, some discretion, than to put them in a straight jacket, where they had none at all. There is no question that has given courts greater trouble than defining the shadowy line that separates ministerial power from judicial power. The Supreme Court of this State, even within the last thirty years, has reversed its rulings on this subject, finally de¬ claring powers were judicial, which formerly it held to be minis¬ terial. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—May I ask the gentleman a ques¬ tion. MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I will ask you why you put the word "ministerial” in the first report and left it out of the last? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Because we simply referred to the Speaker then. When we put in the substitute that the joint convention should supervise and control him, then we harnessed him up, and put him in the power and control of the Convention, and we thought it wise not to use the word “ministerial”—as’I was proceeding to explain to my friends when he asked his ques¬ tion. Now, there is a decision of the Supreme Court of Alabama, made some twenty-five years ago, and which is still the law, in which Chief Justice Brickell says: “It may not always be easy to ascertain the real character of the power entrusted to a judicial or ministerial officer. When the power is clearly defined and enjoined, does not involve the exercise of the discretion or judg¬ ment, and no alternative is left to the officer charged with its execution: when he must act without inquiry, without evidence, and the mode of the action is expressly declared, the power is purely ministerial. When, however, the, power involves the ex¬ ercise of judgment and discretion, when it has to be exercised only in an ascertained event, and on the occurrence and existence 810 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of particular facts, and the officer charged with the execution of the power must determine whether the event has arisen, or the fact exists, requiring its exercise, then the power is judicial, or in its nature judicial.” Bearing this definition in mind, the Committee did not wish to use the word “ministerial,” and deliberately rejected the sug¬ gestion that the Joint Convention of Alabama could be put in a straight jacket, bound to count any returns that came up here, no matter what questions arose, after the result was declared in the counties below. Let us see, Mr. President, what might arise before this Joint Convention. A gentleman sends up the returns and says this is the returns from my county, the one you have is a forg'ery. The Joint Convention must decide that question. They must decide which is the true return. They exercise and must exercise judi¬ cial power in that regard. Then, again, Mr. President, suppose some member of the Joint Convention says, “Mr. Speaker, when the result was de¬ clared in my county, John Brown had only a thousand majority; that is an admitted fact, but these returns have been tampered with, and, in order to change the result of the election in Alabama, it is now stated that Brown had two thousand majority.” We did not wish to have the representatives of the people of Alabama in joint convention made so impotent that by the very letter of the Constitution that they are bound, in the first instance, to bow to a fraud, because it was in the form of a return. The commit¬ tee considered some other matters in this connection. There is a penalty, I believe, of $250 on the officers for not making the re¬ turns. We must consider and provide for all contingencies that may arise. Suppose there is a close election in Alabama, and a partisan board, of either party, declines to send up the papers. There is no return before the Joint Convention from that county. Is the Convention to be bound and shackled like a slave, and compelled to declare the result on the face of the returns they have, though by that act they reverse the will of the majority of voters in the State? I remember seeing a Governor’s private secretary, some ten or fifteen years ago, in great distress, and I asked him what was the matter. He said, “I am afraid I have lost the Government.” These returns came in here, some in August, and along at differ¬ ent times. I have filled up one pigeon-hole with the first batch of them. There were eight or ten other returns sent here, which I cannot find. I do not know what to do; the count comes off in a day or two. I have not time to write and get new returns.” If the Joint Convention is put in a straight jacket, after the plan of my friend from Sumter, this Convention, representing the sover¬ eign people of Alabama, which also decides a contest when one is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 , 811 waged, would, in a case like that, if the missing returns had not been found, have to sit here like a set of dummies. They could only say, “Yes, Mr. Speaker, the Constitution fixes your duty to be merely of announcing the result on “the face of these returns,” although some are missing. The will of the people might be de¬ feated by compelling this joint convention to go ahead, when it did not have all of the returns. MR. WALKER—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a ques¬ tion ? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. MR. WALKER—Is not the effect of the provision, as report¬ ed by the committee, to put it within the power of the joint con¬ vention to make itself the Canvassing Board, to count the returns from every County in Alabama, and ignoring the returns as set up here? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No sir. The provision is that their functions are confined in that particular matter, to ascer¬ taining that the returns sent up here were the returns declared below. No matter how fraudulently it may have been made, the joint convention cannot go beyond that. They can see, however, that the returns sent them truly declare the returns as made by the Supervisors in the several Counties. It is specially provided that the Convention is confined to the particular powers specifi¬ cally defined in the section, and shall not question a return in any other respect or in any other matter. I think if my friend will look at that he will see it is not susceptible to the construc¬ tion he places on it. MR. WALKER—Under one of the clauses which I see here the convention can correct any errors in the returns, and if they can do that, they change the result. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—^They can correct an error and change the result if it was based in error. That is right and is only carrying out the will of the people as declared in 1872, when what was called the Capitol Legislature had the returns. By the oversight of the clerk who made out the returns, they gave in one County a large majority that the Republican Treasurer and Au¬ ditor had received to the Democrat candidates who had not re¬ ceived those votes. It w^as a notorious fact that that was not the result that had been declared below. The Capitol Legislature, respecting the known will of the people, corrected the error in the returns. Now I know my friend from Madison, if an election was to be determined on the figures in a return, would not want to put the convention in such a straight jacket in such a case as that that it could not, if need be, examine witnesses, not as to whether the return was fair, not whether the election was fair, gll OFFIGIAL PROCEEDINGS not whether the result was affected by fraud — none^of these things—but, gentlemen, what was the result declared? The joint convention should not be powerless to correct the slip of a pen, which might change the destiny of the State. Ought not the convention to have the power to inquire whether the return has been tampered with in the mails, or by others in whose custody they are before delivery to the Speaker? The section is carefully guarded, Mr. President, to prevent the General Assembly from being a returning board. If we are to trust returning boards, which will you trust? Shall it be a re¬ turning board composed of one hundred and thirty-three repre¬ sentatives of the State of Alabama, or some returning board in some County in the State who know, they could affect the result by sending a fraudulent return here—if the convention could not inquire into it, not into the validity of the election, but into the declaration as made? Now let us see, Mr. President, if it is possible to misunder¬ stand this. After saying that the returns shall be sealed up and transmitted, and so on, it says; the joint convention shall super¬ vise and control the Speaker in the discharge of those duties— that is whatever he has to do. And it has the power, first, to de¬ termine whether the returns are in legal form, made by the prop¬ er officers, and truly give the result as ascertained and declared by the Board of Supervisors in the several Counties. What ob¬ jection can there be to that? MR. JENKINS—To what does the word “truly” there, refer? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It is intended to cut out for¬ geries—as to whether the returns show “truly” what was declared in the several counties. MR. JENKINS—Does it refer to the return? Does it mean whether the returns give truly the result or does it refer to the declaration of the Board of Supervisors? MR. JONES—Whether they truly give the results as ascer¬ tained by the Board of Supervisors. MR. JENKINS — Does that refer to the returns or to the Convention? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It refers to true returns sent up here, whether they give the facts as declared by the several Boards of Supervisors. There is no possible ground for doubting to what they refer. MR. JENKINS—It does not refer to the Convention, then? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No, sir, and it cannot have that meaning. The context and grammar absolutely forbid it. “The CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 813 Joint Convention has power, first to determine whether the re¬ turns are in legal form, made by the proper officers.” The Con¬ vention is bound to pass on these things, and those things are matters which, the Supreme Court says, involve discretion and are judicial in their nature. If you put the gentleman of the Joint Convention in straight jackets by using the word "ministerial,” pieces of paper would make your Governor; the Convention and the Speaker would both be dummies, and could not exercise their minds or judgment in any respect, or correct any error, or do anything else except automatically add up the returns sent up here to them. Suppose the Capitol were to burn down after the August election, in the month of September or October, and the Joint Convention had only the few returns saved from the fire, is the Joint Convention to go ahead and count in whoever has the majority on the face of the returns from the few counties they have, when, as a matter of fact, those people have received only a small minority of all the votes? Ought not the Joint Conven¬ tion to have the power to say, “We have no returns from such and such a county. We will get the result as declared in the miss¬ ing counties, and give declaration in favor of the men who have received the majority of all the voters of the State?” If there is, which we deny, any feature of a returning board, we have carefully cut off power to defeat the will of the people. It is expressly declared that the Joint Convention should not have the power to interfere with the returns in any other way, or as to any other matter, than those specifically named. If we must trust somebody what is the harm of trusting the 133 men of the two houses? They are the same men who determine the con¬ test. At some stage or other of every function of government, somebody must be trusted in the first instance. I do not believe the time will ever come in the history of Alabama when 133 men, to whom are given the power to say whether the returns are gen¬ uine or whether they truly declare the result as declared in the several counties, and where there are errors in them, to correct them, will usurp the function of a contest board and practically decide a contest then and there. If they will do that under guise of correcting error, they will do it no matter what language you use. If they wish to do it they could arbitrarily throw out a re¬ turn, on the pretext that it was not in legal form, or properly signed, or on any other pretext. If they do, where is your remedy? Whoever they declare elected can take his seat, and if they do that they can again cheat the will of the people on a formal contest. The Committee has considered this matter very maturely and earnestly, with an anxious desire to put such provisions in the Constitution as will save trouble in the future, and at the 814 OFFICIAL proceedings same time guard against a Returning Board, which would have power to contest the election as to its fairness, or Antecedent to the result as declared, and still leave the Board power to deal with fraudulent charges in the returns. MR. OATES—I would like to ask the delegate from Mont- eomerv a question. This proposition is not broad enough, as 1 underhand from your statement, for the Convention to gate anything except that pertaining to the returns; in other words, that nothing outside, in the election itself, could be inves¬ tigated by the Joint Convention under this Section. MR JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. For example, if the returns from Montgomery County showed that Wilham C. ^^tes had received 5,000 votes, and some member got up and said i nat is a mistake, the returns as declared by the Board of Supervisors showed that he had 7,500 votes,” under the Section Convention could ascertain what was declared by the Board of Supervisors of Montgomery County. By that they wo^ be bound as the gentleman from Sumter desires, to count the fig¬ ures sent up, if they contradicted the figures below. MR. BURNS—Will the distinguished gentleman allow me to worry him with a question? MR. TONES—I will in a minute, just as soon as I finish answering the inquiry just propounded by the gentleman from Montgomery. Here is the language to which I wish to call attention: “The Joint Convention shall have no power to quftion the returns as to any other matters or in any other respect. The article clearly defines what they are to do. Is there an error in the figures? If it is claimed there is, the Convention has a right to inquire into that, and see if the figures returned to theni are ^re ^ ferent from those announced in the county by the Board of Su pervisors. By those figures, as declared in the county, th^ are Absolutely bound. Now, I will answer the gentleman from Dallas with great pleasure. MR. BURNS—In case there is no Speaker of the House, is there any provision as to who shall open the returns? MR. JONES—There is no specific provision in that respect. MR. BURNS—Do you think the section is strong enough without that? MR. JONES—I think it would be wise to add to the section, "or Speaker pro tern in the absence of the Speaker.” I " MR. BURNS—Now, I ask the privilege of worrying you with a few questions. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 815 MR. JONES~No worry at all. MR. BURNS—^Take line 8 in this printed report. MR. JONES—What we are considering is the substitute offered for that; not the printed copy from which you are reading. MR. BURNS—^Then any question in regard to the printed section would be out of order ? MR. JONES—^Yes, we are not considering that. There is a substitute for that. I will now take pleasure in answering my friend from Chambers (Mr. Robinson). MR. ROBINSON—I did not want to ask any questions. I thought he had concluded, and I was trying to address the Con¬ vention. MR. COLEMAN—I would ask the chairman of this com- mitt if this provision of his does not confer judicial power upon the House. MR. JONES—Unquestionably it does, and was intended to do so, but in the three particulars named in this substitute. It is expressly denied any power save in the instances named. MR. COLEMAN — They are to judge and determine for themselves whether there are any errors and as to the correction of them ? MR. JONES—Whether the returns are genuine. MR. COLEMAN—Correct such errors as may be found. They are made the judges of whether there are errors and they are to correct them? MR. JONES—Unquestionably. MR. COLEMAN—Then they act judicially under this instead of ministerially? MR. JONES—Yes; and we were afraid, if we put the word “ministerially” in there, they would be put in a straight jacket and could not correct a manifest or plain error, or a fraudulent alteration in the return, after it was made. MR. HARRISON—Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. ASHCRAFT—May I interrupt the gentleman with a question? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—Will the delegate yield for a question? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—^To either one of them; but not to the two at the same time. 816 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HARRISON—Would it not be better, instead of say¬ ing “to correct such errors as may be found there” to make it “to permit such errors as may be found therein to be corrected?” MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Is not that the same thing? MR. HARRISON—Permit them to be corrected by the Coun¬ ty Board; or do you intend that the Joint Convention shall act judicially and correct the errors? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—What the committee intended was, in view of the decision of the Supreme Court, to give this Board, or Joint Convention, the power to judicially determine when the returns were sent up, whether they were true returns, whether in proper form, signed by the proper officers, and whether the returns tally with the declaration made by the Board of Su¬ pervisors of the county at the time the votes were counted and the result declared, and if there were errors in the returns—not frauds in the election or wrongs of the election officers—to give the joint convention power to correct such errors. I take it for granted if there was a gentleman on the floor of the Joint Convention who said there was an error of five hun¬ dred votes in the returns sent up from his county, and there was no dispute about it, the convention would correct it by common consent, as they did in 1872; but if it was disputed, they would send a committee of the body to examine into the matter, or sum¬ mon before them the supervisors, and say to them, “You have given this man so and so many votes—is that a mistake? Every¬ body else running on that ticket got nine hundred votes?” If they answer, “Yes, that is a mistake,” then the Convention would correct it. If they testify “No, that is not a mistake,” then the Joint Convention would not change it. The committee was afraid if they used the word “ministerial” purely, it would make a set of dummies of the 133 men of the two Houses, and put it in the power of any County Board of Super¬ visors by sending up a return, w'hich fraudulently contradicted the result as declared by them below, or which had been tam¬ pered with in the mails to change the result, and compel the con¬ vention to make a declaration of election in favor of a men who was not elected. All of us know that in times of passion and political excite¬ ment, good men do a great many things they afterwards regret. Some men get so fanatical that they think they are doing God’s service when, no matter how or by what means, they down a po¬ litical opponent. Take a close election in the State where the vote of one County would decide it, and turn over the political power one way or the other, under the plan proposed by the gen¬ tleman from Sumter, a Board ot Supervisors of three men, even after the result had been declared in their County could give a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 817 man ten thousand votes when he didn’t have but fifteen hundred, and when it was notorious that it controlled the result as declared below, and thus the will of the people could be overthrown by three men. Is it not better to insert one hundred and thirty-three? MR. ASHCRAFT—Will the gentleman allow an interroga¬ tory right here? MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. ASHCRAFT—You have approached precisely the point about which I desire to ask a question. The safeguards which have been thrown around the holding of an election and the mak¬ ing of returns are such as to bring the returns to the Speaker of the House presumptively correct. Now, in the heat of this po¬ litical condition to which you refer, you say the Board of Super¬ visors may certify and return a party as having received five thousand votes when he only received three thousand. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—And when they declared he had only received three thousand when the result was announced. MR. ASHCRAFT—As I say, the returns come to the Speak¬ er presumptively correct, and suppose a member of that one hun¬ dred and thirty-three stands up and says, “Mr. Speaker, those re¬ turns are not correct.” They are presumptively correct before the Speaker. The House constitutes itself into a returning board. Now, will it do that without giving notice to the parties who are interested, and if it must give notice to them in order that justice may be done, does not that incidentally place it where the body is under a later clause of this report which provides for contests in the regular form of law? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—There is only one way to make a contest and that is to contest the result that is declared by the Speaker of the House or the presiding officer of the two houses. When that is done the question of a contest comes in, but before a declaration is made, there cannot be any contest, strictly speak¬ ing, in a legal sense, the contest to which the Constitution refers. MR. ASHCRAFT — Then the gentleman maintains that the House ought to have the authority to change what is presump¬ tively correct and declare another persons elected and without giving the man who is deprived of that presumption any oppor¬ tunity to be heard. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No, sir; if the gentleman will pardon me, I said nothing about putting a man out without giv¬ ing him notice. The Committee thought that the one hundred and thirty-three men who were supposed to be representing dif¬ ferent parties, would at least act fairly and decently. We could not undertake to prescribe in the Constitution all the details for the action of a representative body of 133 men. In the case sup- 818 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS posed by the gentleman, I take it that members of the opposition party or friends of the officer affected would say, “Put that aside, see if it affects the result.” And if they found it did affect the re¬ sult, if necessary, they might delay the declaration as to that of¬ ficer, and send a Committee to find out what the true return was or summon the officers of the County before them. I cannot un¬ derstand the sensitiveness of the gentleman about trusting the Joint Convention in a matter of that sort. They are the men who have to decide the matter of a contest, and it certainly would be an unseemly thing for Alabama to say and to these 133 men, you must put men in office, who are not elected, simply because a supervisor, after a result was declared, stuck in a few more figures or forged the returns. If we cannot trust the General Assembly in joint convention to settle a matter of that sort properly, there is no use of talking about Constitution or fundamental laws. MR. ASHCRAFT—Will the gentleman permit another in¬ terruption ? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. MR. ASHCRAFT—Don’t the people of Alabama manifest their confidence in the General Assembly to determine the questions of the kind you mention fairly by providing they may entertain contests of elections. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Unquestionably, but that re¬ lates to other matters, to going behind the returns and inquire into the validity and legality and fairness of the election. This section does not propose anything of that sort, but simply gives the body the power to see that the processes which completes the election after the result declared below were fair and expressed the will of the people. MR. ASHCRAFT—And to change the presumption of cor¬ rectness without giving the parties interested notice. MR. JONES—No, sir; it don’t say that at all. It puts it in the power of this body to inquire and determine as to the cor¬ rectness of the returns of the supervisors, but not to go into the validity of the election. Now, Mr. President, I dislike to take up time on this floor about matters of law so well known, but must remark that’ an election consists of many processes. It does not consist alto¬ gether of putting ballots in a ballot box. There are after pro¬ cesses. The law exacts many safeguards, which are committed to different sets of officers. All these must be performed before there is any “election” to contest. The joint convention, under this section, deals in with addition, and ascertaining that the fig¬ ures are in genuine returns, and that these returns have not been altered so as to show a different result from that declared. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 819 In West Virginia, owing to a dispute about returns, the Joint Convention might do, to declare the result. The Supreme Court of West Virginia decided the only way they could know who was Governor of West Virginia, was by a declaration in Joint Convention of the legislature of West Virginia and as such decla¬ ration no matter what the reason—had not been made by the only tribunal entrusted with authority to declare the result, it could not say who had been elected Governor. How can you provide against such a refusal in the part of the Alabama Joint Conven¬ tion? If you left it to court, it too, if all virtue is gone out of men, might refuse to make a declaration. You must trust some¬ body in the first instance. Is it not wise and proper to give the Joint Convention powder to deal with everything which may be done to defeat the will of the people, after the result is declared? What may happen before the result is declared is entrusted to other officials. It is not proposed to touch their work or deci¬ sions. That and that only could constitute a returning board. Surely, if in the Joint Convention, a member should rise in his place and say this return, which it counted as it now is, will change the control of the legislature, executive and judicial department of Alabama, has been fraudulently altered or the clerks below made a mistake in addition and thus sent up the wrong figures— would it be wise policy not to allow the Convention to inquire as to the truth of such a complaint, and, if found to be true, not to permit the will of the people to be overturned by a fraud or a mis¬ take. There is no ground for the fears of gentleman as to the will of the people being overthrown by the power given by this section. On the contrary it tends to secure the will of the majority against frauds and mistakes. MR. BOONE—I rise for the purpose of supporting the sub¬ stitute as offered by the gentleman from Sumter and I do it main¬ ly upon these grounds. For over twenty-five years we have had a Constitution which provides that this power shall be ministerial. MR. JONES—The present Constitution does not say a word about whether the power is judicial or ministerial. MR. BOONE—Then I think it is our duty to make it clear on that matter, and I think the word “ministerial” should be here. From the debate that we have had here and from the argument the gentleman has made, and which will go as a light to the court in construing what we do, it w'ill appear that the gentleman was careful in striking out that word ministerial to say that he would confer on the 133 men what? The supreme power to decide elec¬ tions in this State. This Section says they shall correct any er¬ rors. As Judge Walker has pointed out and as my friend Judge Coleman has shown, that would confer on them judicial power. It seems to me if we have struggled for anything in this State, it has been for the principle of home rule and if we are going to 820 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS have any set of men who are going to pass upon the integrity of our elections in our counties it should be under the eye of the people and the vote should be canvassed where the witnesses can be gotten, where all the facts and circumstances are readily ac¬ cessible, and not take it away, as would be the case as to Mobile, 180 miles and equally far from other parts of the State. These witnesses would have to be coming up here to Montgomery at trouble and expense, away from their homes, for the purpose of answering these charges, and forsooth why? Because these 133 men said that according to this Section the return did not truly show what the vote had been in that county. MR. JONES—^Truly declare. MR. BOONE — It is the same thing. It is nothing but a choice of terms. The legal effect is the same, whether it is cast or declared or whether it was not cast and they declared it was. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Would the gentleman think it wise policy to provide in substance in the Constitution if a re¬ turn was shown to be forged to the extent of adding what would give a party not entitled to a majority, that the Joint Convention would have no power to inquire into that? MR. BOONE—No, sir; I would not be in favor of any such a proposition, but that matter could be corrected as it is now. All those certificates are sent here in duplicate. It is hardly probable that both shall be forged and I think these matters should be de¬ cided in the local forum, so to speak. Now, only one word more, and I am done, and that is this; We all know that in construing any statute or in construing any constitutional provision, one of the cardinal rules of construction is to look at the mischief to be remedied, the evil to be taken out; and when we come here we find in the Constitution whether the word ministerial was or was not in there we confer in effect as said by the gentleman from Greene judicial power upon this body. That is plain, and the gentleman admits that. But he says for¬ sooth that these 133 men would be too good, too pure, too noble and too patriotic to put up any jobs in a matter of an election. Unhappily we know that in our sister States that has not been the rule. Only a few years ago judicial power given to the Legis¬ lature to decide who was elected Governor of Kentucky almost brought about a war in that State and it cost the life of a man who was determined to be elected and there was a state of anarchy reigning in that commonwealth for months. I hope the possibility of such a thing will be forever kept away from the people of Ala¬ bama. I believe the substitute of the gentleman from Sumter clearly guards against any such danger, and I hope it will be adopted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 821 MR. SAMFORD — We have been in session lacking: nine minutes of twenty-six Convention days—working days. To the minds of many of us and to the minds of the public we have ac¬ complished very little and it has occurred to some of us that our sessions are either too short or too widely separated. The Com¬ mittee on Rules reported the other day a rule requiring us to have an afternoon session beginning at 3 o’clock, and that was laid on the table until Thursday or such other time as the Con¬ vention should see proper to take it from the table. For the pur¬ pose of taking that report from the table I move that the rules be suspended and that subject be taken up. THE PRESIDENT — The Chair is unable to see how the Convention is going to get rid of the pending question. The pend¬ ing question is the substitute of the delegate from Sumter. It might be laid aside temporarily by unanimous consent. No one objecting, the Chair took a vote on the motion of the delegate from Pike to suspend the rules, and the House refused to suspend the rules. MR. PILLANS—Addressing myself to pending question. I think every member in this House must have in memory the in¬ famous Returning Board that afflicted Louisiana a few years gone by and through Louisiana the United States, and produced the necessity for the Electoral Commission that settled the Hayes- Tilden contest. And I take it no man who bears in mind the evils the Returning Board produced at that time will want to see a Returning Board established in Alabama, in our State affairs. I know that my honorable friend from Montgomery, who has charge of the matter, is insisting and will continue to insist, un¬ til he goes down under the vote of this Convention, that he has not thought in this substitute a plan for a Returning Board, and I know he is honest in that contention; but every time he opens his mouth in justification of his plan he shows that he intends to give judicial power to the joint convention of the Houses. In the argument which he has made, and very ingeniously made, in support of the substitute offered by the committee and against the substitute of the gentleman from Sumter, he has given us an illustration of the necessity of standing by the substitute of the gentleman from Sumter, if we wish to be rid of Returning Boards. For example, he said “Suppose the Montgomery Coun¬ ty Board of Canvassers or Supervisors or whatever they are styled, count the vote of this County and makes a certificate to the Sec¬ retary of State and gives out publicly that there is a majority of one thousand for A. B. against C. D. for Governor of Alabama, and suppose when this is opened by the Speaker in the presence of the joint House it appears to be two thousand majority,” now, he says, that ought to be inquired into by the two Houses and settled there; that if it is suggested there is an error and nobody 822 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ooooses the suggestion, it ought to be settled at once. Further on, in answer to some questions put rS “You can send it out to committees and that moment he declares that he intends to have a Returning Board, nothing short of it. I wish to ask the gentleman i y desire such a thing? MR TONES—Is there anything now to prevent these 133 men if it is said the returns are not genuine to have that matter settled? MR. PILLANS—Most assuredly there is. MR. JONES—Have they not the right to see whether the returns are in proper form? MR. PILLANS—I will answer that under the present Con¬ stitution, following the Constitution of the United States and the Constitutions of nearly all of the other States, the ^'^^urns are supposed to be fairly and honestly made by the canvassing of¬ ficers of the County. We have to trust somebody, and we trust the canvassing officers in the county. If there is any danger of the returns, when they are coming to the Capitol, being tam¬ pered with in the mail, it is within the power of the Legislature to provide for a safer way, but that is a matter we do deal with in a Constitution. The idea that seems to be involved m the gentleman’s proposition is that you must have a chance to contest some part of the election on the prima facie count. I den^ that I say the whole principle of republican government is founded on trust. First trust in the electorate, that they will elect good men. Next trust in the Canvassing Board that they will Lnestly canvass the vote without inquiring past the vote, but just find the prima facie returns. Next that when the return Reaches the State Capitol that it will be h^^^^^ly canvassed by the House Don’t forget gentlemen, that there will be the constitu tional provision and in all the election laws the retention of two distinct ideas in the election, the first is that there f be a prima facie count and that there shall be a speedy count and that sha 1 be based on the face of the* returns; and next that there shall al¬ ways be opportunity to contest when parties are given notice and witnesses summoned and delay had for the purpose of settling the contest. As to the forgery suggested— MR. JONES — The clock will strike before you can finish answering that. MR. PILLANS— Then I shall have the floor in the morning. A motion was made that the House remain in session until the delepte could finish his remarks but the clock struck before the motion could be put. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 823 THE PRESIDENT—Under the rules the Convention is ad¬ journed and the gentleman from Mobile will have the floor in the morning. By consent the report of the Committee on Journal stating that the Journal for the 25th day was correct, was read and on motion was adopted. By further consent resolution No. 390 which had been re¬ ferred to the Committee on State and County Boundaries was re¬ ferred to the Committee on Amending the Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions. Announcements were then made and the Convention ad¬ journed. TWENTY-SEVENTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Saturday, June 22, 1901. The convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Murphy, as follows: O God, the Father of spirits, from whom all souls have come and to whom all shall at last return, abide with us, we pray Thee, in the seasons of our pilgrimage. Grant that we may serve, as serving Thee, and that we may find the succor and the security of the people in the leadings of Thy truth and in the counsels of Thy will. Guide us, we beseech Thee, that with hearts quick to conceive, and of good report, the dignities and liberties of the people may be fashioned in the forms of law, and the horizons of their contentment may be broadened to our utmost borders. Confirm them in the gifts of patience and of confidence; and con¬ firm in us, O God, those probities of heart and those sobrieties of temper which befit the stewards of the peace of generations! If any man among us be found in any trouble or distress, if there be sickness here, or doubt or sorrow, or a heart in its loneli¬ ness of bitter need, come, we pray Thee, to comfort and restore. For all the good that Thou hast wrought for us, for days of strength and for a world of honest love, grant us the joy of grate¬ ful hearts. Help us to believe Thee and to know Thee and to prove Thee, that Thou are God indeed; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. The roll was called and showed the presence of 138 delegates. 824 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS LEAVES OF ABSENCE For Today—Messrs. Coleman (Greene), Bulger, Parker (Cullman), Howze, Long (Walker), Carmichael (Colbert), Reese, Vaughan. For Today and Monday—Messrs. Fletcher, Renfro, O’Rear, Spragins. Mr. Ely for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Mr. Weatherly for yesterday (Friday). Mr. Kirkland for Friday, Saturday and Monday. Mr. SoIIie for Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of the pres¬ ent week. THE PRESIDENT — The next order, is the report of the Committee on the Journal. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move that time be granted the Committee within which to make their report until Monday. MR. BURNS—I ask the consent of this house to offer a short resolution. The consent was given and the following resolution read: Resolution No. 177 by Mr. Burns: Whereas, but twenty-five (25) more working days are allotted by the enabling act; which, counting six (6) hours per day (be¬ ing more than double the number of hours already utilized) would give to each member less than one hour. Be it resolved that the time occupied on this floor by each delegate be recorder, and that no delegate, who is not chairman of some committee or to whom the time of some other delegate has not been yielded, shall consume more than his prorata share, except by leave of the convention. Referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. REYNOLDS (Chilton)—I ask consent to introduce a resolution. The consent was given, and the resolution read as follows: Resolution 178, by Mr, Reynolds (Chilton): Whereas this convention was called chiefly for the pur,pose of regulating the suffrage. And whereas, this convention has previously pledged itself to be bound by the enabling act of the General Assembly, and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 825 Whereas, one half the time limit of said enabling act has al¬ ready expired and it would be unwise to rush through a suffrage plan, Be it resolved by the convention assembled that the Suffrage Committee be and is hereby instructed to make a report not later than Monday next. Referred to Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. GRAYSON—I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolu¬ tion. The consent was given and the resolution read. Resolution 179, by Mr. Grayson: Resolved that the daily sessions of this convention shall be¬ gin at 10 a.m. and adjourn at 2 p.m. Referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I desire to call up a resolution re¬ ported favorably by the Committee on Rules in regard to the ses¬ sions of this convention. The resolution and substitute were read as follows: Resolution 146, with substitute: Resolved that after next Monday this convention shall meet regularly at 10 o’clock in the morning and shall remain in session from that time until 1 o’clock p. m. when a recess shall be taken at 3 p. m. and the convention shall remain in session until 5 p. m. when the convention shall stand adjourned until 10 a. m. of the succeeding day. Substitute for the resolution reported by the Committee on Rules. Resolved that after the passage of this resolution this con¬ vention shall, meet regularly each day at 10 o’clock in the morn¬ ing and shall remain in session from that time until 1 o’clock p. m. when a recess shall be taken until 3 p. m. and the conven¬ tion shall remain in session until 5 p.m. when the Convention shall stand adjourned until 10 a. m. of the succeeding day. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move the adoption of the sub¬ stitute. Upon a vote being taken the motion prevailed. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move that the regular order 1^ dispensed with, and that we proceed to the consideration of the matter which was being considered by the house at its adjourn¬ ment on yesterday afternoon. 826 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. GRAHAM (Talladega) — I hope the gentleman will withdraw it for the purpose of letting me introduce a resolution, and I will renew his motion. MR. deGRAFFE’NREID—I withdraw it for that purpose. Resolution 180 by Mr. Graham (Talladega). Resolved, That it is the sense of this convention that the sub¬ stance of the resolution hereto attached be incorporated in the article heretofore reported on the subject of taxation. Resolution adopted by the State Association of County Super¬ intendents of Education and approved by the Alabama Educa¬ tional Association, June 20, 1901. Whereas, there is a crying need for better school houses in the rural districts of Alabama, we, the County Superintendents of Education in Association assembled in Montgomery, hereby petition the Committee on Taxation and Education in the Con¬ stitutional Convention now assembled to recommend that public school houses be declared public buildings in making provision in the constitution for a special county tax for the erection of court houses, bridges and other public buildings of the county, and that such aid may be given by the county to the building of public school houses in the county as the commissioners court or boards of revenue in the several counties may deem practicable. W. S. Neal, Acting President, L. V. Rosser, Secretary. Referred to Committee on Taxation. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolution. The consent was given, and the resolution was read as fol¬ lows : Resolution No. 181. Resolved, That a committee be appointed by the president of this convention to consist of the president, the three other dele¬ gates from the State at large, and one from each Congressional district, to prepare a memorial to the Congress of the United States, on the repeal of the fifteenth amendtnent of the Federal Constitution, said committee to report ad libitim during the ses¬ sion of this convention. Referred to the Committee on Rules. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 827 MR. BROWNE—It will be impossible to Ret a meeting of the Committee on Taxation before the report of that committee will be considered. The resolution introduced by the gentleman from Talladega, Mr. Graham, simply provides that school build¬ ings shall be classed among those public buildings for which special taxation is provided, and for the purpose of testing the sense of this convention upon the subject, so that the committee may be directed to place school buildings with the other public buildings, I move to suspend the rules in order to put the resolu¬ tion upon its passage. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I object, Mr. President. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I hope that the gentleman from Talladega will let the matter stand until his report comes up for consideration, so, that I may have a conference with him. MR. BROWNE—I do not see any good reason why the com¬ mittee should not have the sense of the convention— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Talladega says to the gentleman from Talladega that he wants to have a con¬ ference with him before this matter is brought before the conven¬ tion. MR. BROWNE—I withdraw the motion then. MR. HARRISON—I ask to have Ordinance 352 returned by the Committee on Corporation, and that it be referred to the Com¬ mittee on Taxation. The reference was changed as requested. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask unanimous consent to submit the report of the Committee on Local Legislation. It is very short and will consume very little time. The report of the committee was read as follows: Report on the Committee on Local Legislation: Mr. President. The Committee on Local Legislation instructs me to report herewith an ordinance to be made an article on that subject. The evil of local legislation has long been recognized, not only in Alabama, but in many other States of the Union. A num¬ ber of recent State constitutions have endeavored to check this tendency on the part of the Legislative Department, by absolute prohibition of local or special laws in certain enumerated cases. This method of enumerating the subjects, as to which the legis¬ lature is prohibited from passing local, special or pri-v^te laws, seems to be the only feasible plan of accomplishing the result, and has received the approval of the following States: California, 828 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois Indiana Iowa, Ken¬ tucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Ne¬ vada, New Jersey, New York, South Carolina North Dakota Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, Wes Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming. The reason why the other States have not sought to check this evil by similar constitutional limitation on the power of the legislature, is no doubt fact that they have not framed new constitutions since the danger from this class of legislation has become so patent, and its rapid and ever increasing growth so alarming. The Constitutional Convention of 1875 endeavored by what were then regarded as stringent provisions, to prevent the growth of such legislation in Alabama, but that their efforts failed, is made evident by the ever increasing flood of local and special laws which fill volumes containing the act of the General As¬ sembly. In recent years the number of local laws enacted have outnumbered the general laws in the proportion of about twenty to one. The books containing the general laws of the last two sessions of the General Assembly are less than the size of the old blue backed Webster spelling book, while the volumes containing the local laws of those sessions are nearly ten times the size. These local, special or private bills which we have sought to prohibit and regulate destroy the harmony of the law, consume the time of the legislature, and in some State have been the fer¬ tile source of jobbery In the enumeration of subjects concern¬ ing which it is proposed the General Assumbly shall not legislate by special, private or local law, we have endeavored to include those matters which seem to have consumed most of the time of the legislature and occupied most of the space in the published acts The requirements that the notice of intention to introduce a special, private or local law shall be affirmatively shown by the journals of each house, and that the courts and not the Genera Assembly shall be the judges of whether the subject of any local law is provided for by any general law, and whether the relief sought can be granted by any court, will in the opinion of the Committee very materially aid in preventing local legislation. We have also provided for the repeal of local laws now in existence upon the same notice being given and shown as is re¬ quired in the passage of new ones. One of the most common methods of evading provisions against special, private and local legislation consists in passing acts which, because they purport to amend general acts, are them¬ selves deemed general. Another method consists in evading such laws by the partial repeal of general laws by excepting certain counties, municipalities or corporations from their operation. We have provided that the legislature shall not indirectly enact such laws. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 829 We have sought to prevent the assumption by the State Leg¬ islature of the direct control of local affairs. The General As¬ sembly is authorized to confer upon local courts powers of local legislation and administration, thereby not only saving the time and expense required in the passage of local acts, but also rele¬ gating these matters to the local authorities and forum, which can best appreciate and understand restrictions. One of the most alarming evils which is the outgrowth of lo¬ cal legislation, and which has increased enormously in the last few years, is the unlimited power of counties and municipalities to borrow money. The last two legislatures alone, authorized the issue of many million dollars worth of bonds in this State. This we have endeavored to check or to safe guard by proper local necessities and demands. The Committee has not deemed it necessary to report special¬ ly upon the several ordinances and resolutions referred to it. All have been maturely considered, and the principles of most have been incorporated in this ordinance. These ordinances are here¬ with respectfully returned. Emmett O’Neal, Chairman. AN ORDINANCE Concerning Local Legislation. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, that the following article on local legislation be inserted in the Constitution: ARTICLE —. LOCAL LEGISLATION Section 1. The General Assembly shall not pass a special, private or local law in any of the following cases: 1st. Granting a divorce; 2nd. Relieving any minor of the disabilities of non-age; 3rd. Changing the name of any corporation, association or individual; 4th. Providing for the adoption or legitimizing of any child; Sth. Incorporating a town, city or village; 6th. Granting a charter to any corporation, association or individual; 7th. Establishing rules of descent or distribution; Sth. Regulating the time within which a civil or criminal action may be begun; 9th. Exempting any person, corporation, county, township, munici¬ pality or association from the operation of any general law; 830 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 10th. Providing for the sale of the property of any individual or estate; 11th. Changing or locating a county seat; 12th. Providing for a change of venue in any case; 13th. Regulating the rate of interest. 14th. Granting any exclusive or special privilege, immunity or fran¬ chise whatever. 15th. Fixing the punishment of crime or misdemeanors. 16th, Providing for or regulating either the assessment or collection of taxes; 17th. Giving effect to invalid will, deed or other instrument. 18th. Legalizing the invalid act of any officer; 19th. Authorizing any township, city, town or village to issue bonds or other securities; 20th. Amending, confirming or extending the charter of any corpora¬ tion or remitting the forfeiture thereof; 21st. Creating, extending or impairing any lien; 22nd. Chartering or licensing any ferry, road or bridge; 23rd. Regulating the jurisdiction and fees of justices of the peace or the fees of constable; 24th. Establishing separate school districts; 25th. Establishing separate stock districts; 26th. Creating, increasing or decreasing fees, per centage or allow¬ ances of public officers. No special, private or local law, except a law fix¬ ing the time of holding courts, shall be enacted in any case, which is pro¬ vided for by a general law, or when the relief sought can be given by any court of this State, and the courts and not the General Assembly shall judge as to whether the matter of said law is provided for by a general law and as to whether the relief sought can be given by any court; nor shall the General Assembly indirectly enact any such special, private or local law by the partial repeal of a general law. The General Assembly shall pass general laws for the cases enumerated in this section. Sec. 2. No special, private or local law shall be passed on any subject not enumerated in Section 1 of this article, except in reference to fixing the time of holding courts, unless notice of the intention to apply therefor shall have been published, without cost to the State, in the county or counties where the matter or thing to be affected may be situated, which notice shall state the substance of the proposed law, and be published at least once a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 831 week for four consecutive weeks in some newspaper, or if there is no news¬ paper published in the County, by posting the said notice for four consecu¬ tive weeks at five different public places in the County or counties, prior to the introduction of the bill; and the evidence that said notice has been given shall be exhibited to each house of the General Assembly, and the fact of said notice spread upon the journal. The courts shall pronounce void every local law which the journals do not affirmatively show was passed in accordance with the provisions of this Section. Sec. 3. The General Assembly may repeal any special, private or lo¬ cal law upon notice being given and shown as provided in the last preced¬ ing section. Sec. 4. The operation of no general law shall be suspended for the benefit of any individual, corporation, association, towns, city, county or township, nor shall any individual, corporation, town, city, county or town¬ ship be exempted from the operation of any general law. Sec. 5. The General Assembly may by general law confer upon courts of County Commissioners, Boards of Revenue or other courts, such power of local legislation and administration, touching all matters and things not provided for by general law, and not inconsistent with the provisions of this Constitution as the General Assembly may from time to time deem expedient. Sec. 6. A general law within the meaning of this article is a law which applies to the Whole State; a local law is a law which applies to any po¬ litical sub-division or sub-divisions of the State less than the whole—a special or private law within the meaning of this article one which applies to an individual, association or corporation. THE PRESIDENT—The report will lie on the table and be printed under the rules. MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—I ask that the rules be sus¬ pended and that the report be made a special order, after the con¬ sideration of the report of the Committee on Preamble to the con¬ stitution. MR. HARRISON — I do not wish to object to the motion made by my friend from Lauderdale, but it seems to me that this report should be considered in connection with the report of the Committee on the Legislative Department, which committee has not yet reported, and I hope the motion will not be insisted up¬ on. I hope that these reports may be considered together. MR. OATES—Before that is put, I want to say that last night we had a conference with reference to this matter, and as I un¬ derstood the Committee on Legislative Department went over the items in this report, the large majority of which they agreed to, but I informed the chairman and his associates last night, that after they retired we would go on through, and if there were any proposition in the bill which we had prepared touching this sub- 832 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ject, which were not embraced in theirs and which we thought should be, that we would furnish such suggestions to them this morning. I have them ready to furnish, but I find the committee making its report. Now I do not wish to have any conflict at all. While all that belongs usually to the Legislative Department, and comes under that head, all that I desire for the committee of which I have the honor to be the chairman, is that we may have a voice in it, and as nearly without conflict as possible. But we have some propositions not embraced in their article, that we think it is our duty to present and urge, and I have no objection to an order, if it necessary to take one, to take up the subject of legis¬ lation after the other orders that have been made, but I think that the Committee on the Legislative Department should have an op¬ portunity, and not be cut off of having considered, in the same connection, the propositions touching local legislation, which are not covered by this report. MR. WEATHERLY—Will the gentleman from Montgomery allow me to make a suggestion. MR. OATES—Certainly. MR. WEATHERLY—Perhaps the convention does not un¬ derstand the fact that a number of these ordinances relating to the prohibition of local legislation have been referred to the Com¬ mittee on Legislative Department and a number to the Commit¬ tee on Local Legislation, so that it is as much the duty of the Committee on Legislative Department to make their report on the ordinances referred to it as it is the duty of the other committee to make a report on the ordinances referred to it. MR. OATES—The delegate from Jefferson is quite right. He is a member of the Committee on Legislative Department, and knows these facts, that ordinances have been referred to the com¬ mittee, touching the same subject. All we desire, Mr. President, is a fair opportunity to have our views represented in this con¬ nection. We do not wish to antagonize the Committee on Local Legislation, but the committee last night went over it, after they retired and think it is not broad enough, and there are other propositions that ought to go in there, and of course, the com¬ mittee having made a report, I presume the Committee on the Legislative Department will also make a report, covering the points not covered by the report of the Committee on Local Leg¬ islation. Therefore, I think that while it may be conceded that this matter of legislation may come up next after the orders al¬ ready made, I think that their report should be considered prob¬ ably along with the report on the Legislative Department, and wherein there is a difference that it may be taken up along with that so as not to have any conflict. That is all we desire. But the Committee on Legislative Department feels that it is their CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 190} 833 duty to report on ordinances touching" this subject that were re¬ ferred to them, and they have done so after careful consideration. MR. LOMAX—Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question. MR. OATES—Certainly. MR. LOMAX—Are you prepared to indicate to the conven¬ tion about what time you will be ready to make this report? MR. OATES—The Committee will have a meeting this eve¬ ning, and are ready to make a report. I will state furthermore, that the delegates from Montgomery himself offered an ordinance, a very extensive and well constructed one, which was referred to the Committee on Legislative Department, and some of its recommendations were adopted by the Committee. All we want is to cover the subject well, and not be concluded from it by the Committee on Local Legislation. So I would suggest that this matter lie over until— THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would suggest to the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery that the pending question is the mo¬ tion to suspend the rules, and unless a satisfactory arrangement can be made between the gentleman and the gentleman from Lauderdale, probably the matter could be reached by a proposi¬ tion to amend his motion. MR. OATES—Mr. President it will simply result in this, to go on in that way, the Committee on Legislative Department will be offerings propositions and amendments that will throw more work before the convention, and we wanted to avoid that if we could. THE PRESIDENT — Is the suggestion of the gentleman from Montgomery satisfactory to the Committee on Local Legis¬ lation ? MR. WATTS—No sir, and we desire to say— THE PRESIDENT—Then the motion before the convention is the motion to suspend the rules. MR. WATTS—I hope the convention will permit us to an- SAver at least the implied charge of bad faith made by the gentle¬ man from Montgomery against the Committee on Local Legisla¬ tion. MR. OATES—Mr. President, the delegate from Montgomery is assuming a good deal. I never used the word bad faith at all. I simply stated facts and nothing but facts. MR. WATTS — That is the matter we propose to discuss. Now the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. President, alleges 834 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS that we went to his office last night, and submitted to his commit¬ tee the report of the Committee on Local Legislation. That is true. We did that at his request. The gentleman from Mont¬ gomery, the Chairman of the Committee on Legislative Depart¬ ment, promised to return to us our report this morning, with a statement of what objections his committee had to it. Instead of that, the report was not returned to us at the time indicated, and we sent for it, and it was sent back to us without any sugges¬ tions whatever. We therelore made our report— MR. OATES—Let me interrupt the delegate— THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman consent to be in¬ terrupted ? MR. WATTS—I have no objection at all. MR. OATES—Now the promise that was ihade, was to re¬ turn the ordinance to his office by 9 o’clock this morning. It was left with the clerk of the Committee on Legislative Department, and he promised to return it. When I went there he had not done so, but started to carry it just at the time the messenger came in from Mr. Watts’s office. Now I never promised to send the ob¬ jections with the report to his office, but promised to bring them here this morning, when I came, and that the committee would confer with the gentleman, and I have the paper ready to submit to them and confer with them. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—If the gentleman will permit, I will say we understand him to say that he would inform us with the return of the report, what objections, if any, he had to it. That was our understanding of the agreement. MR. OATES—No. I made no such agreement. MR. O’NEAL—And upon the return of the report without any explanation or objection, we thought it proper to prepare it and submit it to the convention. We thought that we had car¬ ried out our agreement. MR. OATES—I could not undertake to write out an ex¬ planation of everything in that time, but I expected to see the gentlemen on arrival here this morning, and explain to them what the position of the committee was. MR. WATTS—The only reason we advert to the matter at all is because of the statement of the gentleman from Montgom¬ ery, in his remarks to the convention, implying that we had brok¬ en faith in our agreement. If it was a misunderstanding on his part, as to what the promise or agreement was, or upon our part, of course there is nothing more to be said upon that subject. MR. OATES — I will state that the misunderstanding was with you. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 835 MR. WATTS—But we understood when the gentleman failed to send us the report at the time agreed upon, and we had to send for it, and when he sent it back to us without any comments what¬ ever, we took it for granted that he had no comments to make, and there was no reason why we should not make our report. Now in reference to the suggestion made by Mr. Weatherly and also by the distinguished gentleman from Montgomery, that their Committee should report upon matters of local legislation, I respectfully submit that the Committee on Local Legislation was established by this convention for the purpose of consider¬ ing matters of local legislation, or it has no functions whatever. If the Committee on Local Legislation has jurisdiction of his subject, then the Committee on Legislative Department has not. There cannot be two committees with concurrent jurisdiction in this convention, and with all due respect to the learned gen¬ tleman from Montgomery, the Chairman of the Committee— MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I rise to a point of order. A motion to suspend the rules is not debatable. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. MR. WATTS—I obtained leave. No one objected to my remarks. MR. HEFLIN—I did not so understand it. MR. WATTS—The gentleman is unfortunate in not so un¬ derstanding it. Leave was granted. I asked leave and no objec¬ tion was made. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I insist upon the point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The proposition was not stated to the convention, the Chair will suggest, but the Chair by'* indulgence was allowing the gentleman to proceed, in to the remarks made by the gentleman from Montgomery, by common consent, but the question was not put to the convention. MR. WATTS—I insist that if other gentlemen is not fair to cut off the committee. The committee always has the right to close any discussion affecting their report. THE PRESIDENT—That is a matter with the gentleman from Chambers, who makes the point of order. MR. WATTS—I merely want to state the position of the committee, in reply to the gentleman from Jefferson and the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state when the gentle¬ man from Montgomery commenced to discuss the matter, it was flot debatable, but the Chair simply allowed some debate by in- 836 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS dulgence, because no point had been made against it. If the gen¬ tleman from Chambers insists upon his point of order, the Chair will sustain it. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I will withdraw it. I thought we were consuming a good deal of time on this question, but if the gentleman will be brief in his remarks I will withdraw. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will proceed. MR. WATTS—I was about to remark, Mr. President, that it seems to me that if by inadvertence any ordinance introduced into this Convention was referred to the Committee on Legislative Department, which related to the subject of local legislation, it was their duty, instead of considering it to report it back to the convention, and have it referred to the proper committee, the Committee on Local Legislation, and I do not think that the Committee on Legislative Department should have gone on and considered the question, unless they had first come into the con¬ vention and asked that the Committee on Local Legislation be discharged, and I think that if the gentleman has objections to the report of the Committee on Local Legislation, he can make them by offering to amend the report, in the various and sundry par¬ ticulars, but I do not think we should be subservient to that com¬ mittee, any more than we would be subservient to any other— MR. BROOKS—I would like the indulgence of the Chair and of the gentleman, to make a suggestion to the gentleman from Lauderdale, who offers the report of the committee. It is this: suppose he lets this question go over. After we get through with the discussion on the report of the Committee on Executive Department, there is the report of the Committee on Taxation, and after that the report of the Committee on Pre¬ amble and Declaration of Rights, and it will not prejudice the gentleman’s case, if he will wait a day or two, until the report of the Committee on Legislative Department is in and then a special order can be applied for, for both reports, one after the other, and in that way the Convention will have the opportunity and advantage of having both reports before them to read, before they come up for consideration as a special order. I would there¬ fore suggest to the gentleman from Lauderdale that he withdraw the motion for a suspension of rules and let the matter go over. It will be without prejudice to his case. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair expresses hope that the dif¬ ferent Chairmen of the Committees will get together and come to some agreement. MR. O’NEAL—Other committees have made their reports and they have been assigned as special orders by this Conven¬ tion, I see no reason why the Committee on Local Legislation CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 837 should not enjoy the same privilege. Therefore, I cannot assent to the proposition of the gentleman from Mobile. We have made our report and I know of no reason why this report should not be made a special order by this Convention and I cannot assent to the proposition that our report should be made subordinate to the report of any other Committee. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I rise to the point of order that un¬ der the rules of the report of the Committee on Legislative De¬ partment will take its regular place on the Calendar which will be following the report of the Committee on Preamble and Declara¬ tion of Rights. Therefore the motion to make it a special order succeeding that is out of order. MR. O’NEAL—If that point of order is well taken, I with¬ draw the motion. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the report of the Committee will lie upon the table and be printed, and, un¬ der the rules, will come up for consideration, in the absence of some special order in the order prescribed in the rules. MR. O’NEAL—Will the Chair permit an inquiry? THE PRESIDENT—The reports of Standing Committees will be called in the order printed in the rules. MR. O’NEAL—But that course was taken in reference to other reports and I desire to make this inquiry: If this report is not made a special order and some other report subsequently made is made a special order does not that come up before this? In other words, I want to know where this will come? THE PRESIDENT—That is in the power of the Convention to determine. MR. O’NEAL—The report of the Committee on Suffrage may be made some day next week. We cannot anticipate but it is evident that that report will consume a large amount of time and interest in the Convention will to a large extent cease when that report is disposed of. MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a poiqt of order. A motion to suspend the rules is not debatable. Mr. Oates here endeavored to secure recognition. THE PRESIDENT—Does the delegate from Pike withdraw his point of order? MR. OATES—I do not rise to debate, but simply to make a suggestion. MR. SAMFORD—No, sir. 838 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—Is there any objection to hearing^ the suggestion of the delegate from Montgomery? The Chair hears none, (Laughter.) MR. OATES—The Committee on Local Legislation makes its report and moves to suspend the rules. All I have to suggest is that the Committee on Legislative Department make its report and where it has anything upoti which we have any matter, we will offer it by way of amendment to his report when it is under con¬ sideration and in doing that we do not intend any disrespect to that Committee and are not trying to displace them. MR. O'NEAL—Under our report we ask that this Article on Local Legislation be made a separate Article in the Constitution and not incorporated as a part of the Article on Legislative De¬ partment. A vote being taken, the motion to suspend was lost. THE PRESIDENT—The next regular order will be the con¬ sideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment and the pending question is the substitute offered by the delegate from Sumter for the Section reported by the Committee and the gentleman from Mobile had the floor when the Conven¬ tion adjourned. MR, PILLANS—I regret that the clock struck just when it did for I had about concluded all I had to say and when a man is cut off by an adjournment and commences the next morning, he always runs the risk of getting wound up again. However, I shall endeavor to be brief m what I have to say in opposition to the novelty proposed by the Committee in their substitute, and in favor of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Sumter. Just at the close of yesterday's session I was about to answer a question put by the honorable gentleman who is the Chairman of the Committee, the report from which I am antagonizing, as to what is to be done if we keep the provisions of the old Consti¬ tution or the provisions recommended by the gentleman from Sumter, which follows closely upon the old Constitution. I be¬ lieve the question was if we adopted the substitute offered by the delegate from Sumter what would be done by the Speaker and the Joint Convention and the tw’o houses, acting ministerially, in the event a forgery had been committed in a return which had come to them. In the first place the whole theory and practice of republican governments are based on true official returns. We cannot sur¬ mise in the organization of a republican government that there are no human beings to be trusted with the true performance of official duties. In the prima facie establishment of the result of an election we have to trust the sworn officials who have in charge CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 839, the making of due returns and the counting of those returns as ministerial officers. But has any man ever yet heard it claimed that a forgery was anything whatever but a void thing. I take it that a forgery is like a void decree or a void law. It does not ex¬ ist. I take it when you say a return is a forged return it is no return, and, therefore, the dilemma the gentleman puts, is no dilemma, that if forged returns are sent to the Secretary of State and when they go into the hands of 9. speaker of a joint conven¬ tion, that they are as much bound to disregard them as minis¬ terial officers as a probate judge would be bound to disregard a forged bond of a tax collector. There is a ministerial act per¬ formed by the judge, but suppose the tax collector of Montgomery County brings up a bond, not really signed by any sureties, but having on it the names of men of amply sufficient estate to make them good sureties on his bond, and suppose those names are forged— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? MR. PILLANS—I will, but I would like to finish the sen¬ tence. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—^When the joint convention re¬ fuses to receive returns because forged, what kind of power do they exercise, ministerial or judicial? MR. PILLANS—They undoubtedly exercise ministerial pow¬ er. That is the proposition I am trying to get before the house. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—And when the probate judge refuses to receive a forged bond tendered to him as the bond of a tax collector, is he acting judicially or ministerially? MR. PILLANS—I think he is acting ministerially. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—My friend runs counter to the decision of the Supreme Court of Alabama when he makes that claim. MR. PILLANS—I do not think I am and if the gentleman will refer me to them I shall be glad to discuss them with him on brief and not detain the house. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—They are the cases of ex parte Harris and ex parte Thompson. If you will read those decisions you will find they hold exactly to the contrary of what you say. MR. PILLANS—I was saying that in the very organization and creation of a republican form of government you have to permit the prima facie decision of who is elected to an office else you have anarchy and discord invited into your State. 840 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS What is the objection to the proposition of the gentleman? He says he is only a little one, and therefore it is not a serious one and ought not to be punished severely. He says when it is charged against his report that it invites a contest on the threshold that it is not a contest because it is only a contest from Montgom¬ ery County back to the county seat, that if they have declared, as he by way of illustration suggested, that they declared in Mont¬ gomery or any other county the result and the result certified proved different, that that would be a fraud which was apparent and could be inquired into by sending a committee down to in¬ vestigate. Now, the proposition of the gentleman is to make this a re¬ turning board having judicial power, a Board of Contest before whom must go the returns which reach the Secretary of State un¬ der forms of law and from the Secretary of State is sent to the speaker of the joint houses and he says it can go behind those re¬ turns. It is true he limits that question to what occurred between the action of the canvassing board in the county and the action of the Board in Montgomery, Has it proved to be the experience of American public bodies, that no trouble arises from such power as this? Has it not rather proved to be the experience of those bodies whenever you invfte or give the power to discuss the validity of an election that chicane enters into the discussion. I will point you for an illustration to the Electoral Commis¬ sion which was elected to do the very thing which my learned friend wants the convention to provide for by doing of by the joint convention and the speaker. It was a quasi judicial body to ex¬ amine returns, quasi judicial and quasi ministerial and it passed on the question of who was elected and that body divided strictly on party lines, even the members of the highest judicial tribunal in the world and they decided one way on a question that arose in Florida and ruled precisely the other way on a question from Lou¬ isiana. We know whenever you put the returns of an election when the first count is to be made and the commission issued into the hands of political bodies, politics will dominate and not facts. There is an unwillingness to put the word ministerial in. It was admitted by the Chairman of this Committee in answer to the remarks of the gentleman from Mobile, my colleague, that it was intended to be a judicial and not ministerial body. If that is to be, you have simply invited trouble, you are seeking trouble. If there is a hotly contested election for State offices in Alabama, the houses are bound to be close as they arc elected at the same time, you invite trouble at the very opening. I would like to ask the Committee if there is a Constitution in the United States which has a similar clause to this? CONSTITUTIONAL, CONVENTION. 1901 841 MR TONES (Montgomery)—I don’t thmk there is. So far as I have examined I have not seen one, but the question has not come up in any of the recent constitutional conventions. MR PILLANS—I confess it is a novelty. I looked hastily through 'the annotated New York Constitution which contains references to similar clauses in the Constitutions of other States and while I am not absolutely sure my impression is you will fmd in eight-tenths of the States a similar clause ^hat we have in our constitution now, and which is contemplated m the substitut I am advocating. In a few of the New England States, Connect icut and Massachusetts and one or two others, the clause runs this way, that the returns from the select men or whatever they are terrned there, shall go to the Secretary of State and be placed bv him in the hands of the houses who shall declare the result In all the cases I could find there is a constant idea that no contest is to be dreamed of until the result is declared. Now, when we elect a Governor, we want a Governor. It is not so material to the interest of the State that John Smith, a Democrat, or J^ohn Tones a Populist, should be Governor, but that there should be peace’ and order in the State, order in its affairs. If there is an error committed we are too just to allow that error to go uncor¬ rected How is it corrected? By the perfectly orderly proceeding of a contest. If it be in county or city matters the contest is in! their legal forum. If it is in an election for general State officers such as those named in the section, the contest is before the bigm est body, unhappily a political body, but the only body m which it could be imposed—the joint Convention of the two Houses of the General Assembly. When those houses sit as a judicial body to hear the complaint of the apparently defeated candidate and hears the evidence, every man unless a bad man feels as each Senator must feel in a matter of impeachment. I am a judge, i will decide honestly as a judge.” At least we may suppose those will be the feelings of those sitting as judges. But this proposition submitted by the Committee undertakes to make that political body a set of judges at the beginning, and merges the idea of con¬ test with the idea of count, a thing which has never been done ex¬ cept, perhaps, in the celebrated returning board incident in Louis¬ iana, and which, from that experience, certainly should not be en¬ couraged to exist here. Now, a word more as to the suggestion that there may be a declaration of a vote in the County by the canvassing board and that when the Speaker opens the returns from that County he finds greatly differing returns. And the suggestion it made that that ought to stop the count until a committee of mvesUption has gone down and ascertained the truth of that matter. That to my mind, involves the substitution of ^litical hearsay, in times of passion, for certified official papers. The law has declared that the people who have handled these returns are all impeachable. 842 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I doubt not that there are sufficient laws on the statute books to cover all those cases, and if not sufficient, other laws can be put there that will throw propei protection around the people in that regard. And there are seals in the circuit courts of every coun¬ ty to certify the signature of the officials sending up the returns. But above all that, the gentleman says that A. B. may arise in the Convention, when they have nothing to do but count the vote, and say it was announced in Shelby County at the time the vote of the electors was declared, that the majority was 2,000 and it appears here as 1,000 or 5,000. If the Houses are to stop on that, they stop on hearsay as distinguished from certificates of sworn officers, and I take it that has never been the practice in any re¬ publican form of government and never will be the practice. There always has been and always will be a recognition of some¬ thing coming from officials as being valid and upon the recogni¬ tion of that something as being valid the count is closed, and upon the count being made the commission wdll issue and nothing will then be left for the joint Houses. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I regret very much that as chairman of the committee it is my duty to speak again on this subject. It reminds me of a conversation a very dear friend of mine once had with a newspaper reporter. My friend was driving through the country in midwinter, over miserable, muddy roads, with one lone newspaper reporter for a companion. He was a candidate for re-election for Governor, and had been going over the State from day to day, sometimes making five or six speeches a day. Being gloomy he sought some sympathy from his com¬ panion. He said he was so tired of having to talk, making the same speech with slight variations, over and over again—^that he was getting tired of the sound of his own voice. Is it best to have to do this? He got no consolation, however, for the bright newspaper reporter responded; Yes, it is bad; but if it is bad on you, what do you think it is on me, who have to listen to all your speeches? I hope the Convention has not yet got in the frame of mind of that reporter. I will detain you no longer than is necessary to answer some objections to the substitute. There are two propositions before the House. One is the substitute by the committee, and the other is the substitute for the report offered by the gentleman from Sumter. They are very different propositions. The proposition of the gentleman from Sumter is, that the joint convention shall be a ministerial body only, and have nothing but ministerial power. The substituted report by the committee gives the joint convention, as we think it has always had, judicial power in certain respects only. I gen¬ erally yield great deference to any statement of law coming from my friend from Mobile (Mr. Pillans), because he is usually very CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 843 accurate. I am satisfied if he has examined this question, with the care the committee has, that he would not be in favor of a propo¬ sition that the convention should have only ministerial power, or assert that it has only ministerial power under the present Con¬ stitution. I said that when an officer approved a bond, when question of forgery or any other objection came up, and he acted upon it, that he exercised a judicial and not a ministerial power. My friend thought I was mistaken. I will read very briefly from the case of ex parte Harris in 52 Ala. page 91, where the court used these words: ''The form of an official bond, its condition and obligation, are prescribed by law.'" So far so good, there is no trouble about that. "Whether a bond offered conforms in this respect to the requisition of the law, the officer must determine before approv¬ ing. He is forbidden to approve, if the bond does not conform to the statutory requisition. Can it be said that in determining the sufficiency of a bond in this respect, ministerial, and not ju¬ dicial power is exercised? Some of the most difficult questions which have been the subject of investigation and decision in this court were whether bonds sometimes official, sometimes taken in the course of judicial proceeding, conform to the statutes au¬ thorizing them, and were to be esteemed statutory bonds, or valid only as common law obligations. The approving officer must also inquire into and pass on the solvency of the obligors. This requires the hearing and weighing of evidence. If he should ad¬ judge them insufficient, the exercise of his judgment will not be controlled by mandamus. In the exercise of the power of approv¬ al, however erroneous his action, in the absence of statutory pro¬ visions subjecting him to liability, he is exempt on the common law principle, which protects a judge from liability to suit or in¬ dictment for judicial acts or omissions. We therefore must pro¬ nounce the approval of an official bond is the exercise of power in its nature judicial, not ministerial. A different conclusion was attained in State vs. Ely, and in ex parte Candee, 48 Ala., on rea¬ soning not satisfactory to us.’' The Supreme Court overruled those cases which had said it was a ministerial power. The Supreme Court of Alabama holds that when a ministerial power only is exercised you have no dis¬ cretion, you have no right to take evidence, etc.—you are bound to act when certain things happen—as if I go to a clerk and say file this complaint. He is bound to do it. You give to a tax collector a warrant to collect taxes, he is bound to do it. He has no discretion, he cannot determine anything, when the warrant is presented, his act follows automatically. That is not the case when you exercise judicial power. I hope members will bear in mind that under the present Constitution not a word has been said about the powers of the Speaker. All that is left is uncer¬ tainty. The gentleman lays some stress on the fact that in the 844 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Constitution of no State has any such limitation been made; but are we not to learn from the wisdom and experience of our fath- gj.g? The Congress of the United States never made any provision for a contested election for the Presidency, until the question arose in the case of Hayes and Tilden. Then they passed statutes on the subject. Here we are framing a Constitution which we hope will be the fundamental law of Alabama for many years to come We are, or hoping, to make vast and beneficial changes as to our elections. We wished, taking warning from the experi¬ ence of our fathers, to make provisions which will prevent the will of the people from being defeated, when the result is declared in the Joint Convention. My friend from Mobile (Mr. Pillans) said that I could not get it into my head—that I would keep on arguing that we were not making a Returning Board until we went down under the adverse vote of this Convention. It may be that this Convention may not see this matter as the Commit- tee does, but I don’t think I am a sanguine prophet when I ven¬ ture the assertion that perhaps the House sees the matter ^ the Committee does. Much has been said about the Returning Board of Louisiana. This report is likened to that. Is there any rea¬ son for such a parallel? What was the Louisiana Board? Com¬ posed of four or five State officers, headed by Mr. Madison Wells, which had power to canvass the returns and to decide nothing going behind the returns. They did not inquire whether the re¬ turns sent up declared the results as ascertain in the different counties j but they overthrew them. They constituted themselves into a Board of Electors for the State. The officers had sei^ up returns showing so many vores for the Democratic electors. They said there was intimidation, that there was fraud, that there was not a fair vote and therefore, they would not confine their func- tions to ascertaining what was declared below, but would go on and vote for the people of Colfax County. They formally count¬ ed up what they thought would have been the vote if the people had not been “bull-dozed,” and gave certificates based on such supposed votes to the Republican electors. MR. WALKER (Madison)—Will you allow me to interrupt you? MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. WALKER—In the Section of the report by the Com¬ mittee, in the first subdivision, powers given to the Joint Conven¬ tion, they are authorized to ascertain the genuineness of the returns? MR. JONES—Unquestionably. MR. WALKER—In the third subdivision they are authorized to procure correct returns from proper offices? MR. JONES—Yes sir. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 84S MR. WALKER —As I understand your arg^ument that is really as far as it is desired to g^ive power to that Joint Conven¬ tion? MR. JONES—Unquestionably. MR. WALKER—^Then what is the use in the second subdi¬ vision of authorizing them to correct such errors as may be made, isn’t the effect of the second subdivision to give them the power of a Returning Board? MR. JONES—I do not know that it adds any great force to the Section, and for that matter the Committee would be perfectly willing to put in the word “clerical” or strike it out. When I was interrupted, I was about to say, Mr. President, what became of the Louisiana Returning Board? They were convicted of forgery, of a violation of the laws of the State of Louisiana, and finally, pardoned by the authorities of that State in consideration of the fact that Mr. Hayes had withdrawn the troops and that the peo¬ ple of Louisiana ruled themselves. MR. PILLANS—May I ask a question? THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman permit an inter¬ ruption ? MR. JONES—Certainly. MR. PILLANS—Then the only example we have, that Re¬ turning Board of Louisiana as I understand it, and which was with powers very similar to those you propose, resulted disas¬ trously and encouraged that Board probably to go beyond the powers intended? MR. JONES—No sir. Because they were a set of rascals and violated the law, and usurped authority. Their conduct does not illustrate the contention that the Louisiana Returning Board had authority to do as they did from such provisions as embodied in the Committee’s substitute. On the contrary the Supreme Court of Louisiana said they had not such power, under terms of an act like ours and convicted them of forgery. We are contending in this substitute for the position that was contended for by the great party which supported Mr, Tilden, when a contested election was threatend in the two Houses. They said, we do not admit that Congress has the power to go behind the action of the State; but we do insist that Congress has the power to ascertain what the State has declared; and therefore they insisted that Congress had the power to look at these returns, sent up from the different counties which the Louisiana Return¬ ing Board had cancelled and held of no effect. 846 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. ROBINSON (Chambers)—I would ask the member from Montgomery if they didn’t make a mistake and will they ever make the same mistake again? MR. JONES—Who made the mistake? MR. ROBINSON—The Democrats. MR. JONES—I think perhaps, they did. They made a mis¬ take in law, in submitting it to a commission instead of deciding it for themselves—speaking from a point of constitutional law. If the gentleman means in a point of policy. I say no, because the South at that time was in a position where it could not go to war. It was better to yield to arbitration than to be humiliated by defeat in an useless war. For that reason, it was well to have a board of honor, so to speak. It was statesmanlike, especially on the part of Southern men to yield to the creation of an Election Commission. I ask the members of this House to read this section. Don’t take it up and find a line, or a word, or a sentence in it, and im¬ mediately strike at that as though that were the only sentence or line in the section. It is common knowledge and common learn¬ ing in considering a section of a writing that you must consider it all together. You must attach some force to each word of it. You must give each word its proper significance, and ascertain from the language used what the intent was. If it is not clear then you enter into construction, the evil to be remedied, etc. Let us see the pow¬ er that this Board has under this section ? After saying that the re¬ turns shall be published in the presence of both houses, we have added “the joint Convention shall supervise and control the Speak¬ er in the discharge of his duty.’’ That was not in the old Constitu¬ tion, Mr. President. The claim was that this Speaker who was a mere creature of one House, had vested in him the sole sovereign power of Alabama to declare the result when the election returns were made up that has been the claim many a time. There were other great jurists and authorities who said no. What are the two houses about? Why are they required to assemble in joint Convention ? Are they mere satellites there to surround and honor the Speaker? Can’t they open their lips? Have they no power whatever? And these jurists, and some very great men among them contended, and I think rightfully, that the Speaker was the instrument of the joint Convention, and that they could control him. We all agreed if that was not the law, that it ought to be, that one man sitting in that chair ought not to have the right, in violation of the will of 132 others on this floor, to decide and, determine as he pleased, questions that arose on a count of a vote. MR. PILLANS—Is not that part of your objection to the old law met by the language of the substitute as proposed by the gentleman from Sumter? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 847 AAT? TnMT7«;_^There never was any trouble upon th^ point between.i? gentleman from Taae” anTlk^Wrorey the Vmmm«r. concerned and that was the the^oowers of the Joint Con- we did not think it wise seemed to be a desire in the vention; but in deference nnwers of the Joint Convention house we undertook to define p g must obey you. —first, you are the master of the Speaker M m ^ Nobody J^r^Turns are in legal form.” Does any- ? d^^^ScTto thatl-" Could the body discharge any duty at ^1 ■Son ‘tSSS? «y ihl 'pS;. office-; S d?“wta.r'-fr|.?*giS the by the f^^JrTVenrup? Second, to correct such errors l^S.afbe'lonnfth'erein. Third, to procure returns when none have been sent up. I submit to the House that the sole eounuS ; tain the integrity of not go beyond them, you to say to that Convention you shall ^V^joh it is shall be bound by them. I returns then you must take shown violates the m egn > ascertained and laid down in the the returns with ^ j demand for “home govern- county canvass. you shall go down there, and see ment. it sa>s in cai^e u to the same result as as- whether the returns sent up^here^e^y^^ certained below, inis ana o y fraud The latter matters stitute shows solicitude t y k fiptermine everything which I. gives the Join. Convent.on power to de.erm ne^^^^^^^ may be done to carry out the w.n ot t„e p p dared in the sixty-s.x coum es. That s all that .t a y does not seem to remembei that a l.ttle turtne shall not have says “contested elections or for any other , Houses in such manner as may be shall be determmed b)'J;‘>*,,“°;Tt"p„ssible to say that the Com- prescribed by law. inen ih ^ mittee in framing this substitute g^v ^hrow the will of the solve itself Into »/'‘““;«„®7ciunlsr Mr- ?resfden., I con- people as declared in the friend from Mobile that you Lr with the statement made by my friend ho^ must trust somebody m the f>f These US act that IS to be PC-formed. ^ j^j^, Convention. Trrih: v°errsTe"m?nThra“ce^^^^ and declare the result if there 848 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS is a contest. If they are gfoing to cheat, if they are gfoing' to usurp power, for instance, you cannot help it by laying down rules in a statute. It is impossible. There has not been a day since Alabama was a State, when the Speaker, if the Joint Convention permit¬ ted, did not have the ph^'sical power, and I might say legal power, because it would take some time to correct it, to say here are the returns from such and such a county. They are not in propel' form. They are not signed by the proper officers. I will throw them out and not count them, and thus, although there might not be a word of truth in the objection—although it might be a bald usurpation, still it is a matter which is dependent solely upon the honor and integrity of 133 men who come here to witness this county, every time you elect State officers. You cannot provide against that by any words or pi'ovisions, so long as you give the Speaker power to count. Now the Committee desired to preserve in its integrity all the power to the election officers below, includ¬ ing the declaration of the result below; but they did not want to put the Speaker of this Joint Convention in a ministerial capac¬ ity, under which, according to the Supreme Court they must eat whatever is fed to them. We did not wish to deprive them of what is plainly the judicial power, to say this is or is not the genuine returns, the figures have been changed in this thing, since it was sent up here. Mr, President, some gentlemen seem to think it is a very small matter, this prima facie declaration. On the prima facie declaration may depend the welfare of the State, the transfer of power in all of its branches, and if you put this Convention in a ministerial straight jacket you can make a Governor, it may be a slip of the pen, and you make this Conven¬ tion powerless to resent a fraud which may be practiced on it in changing the figures in returns. We do not want this joint con¬ vention to be a mere clerk, who must say, I am powerless to re¬ ject the fraud, though I know it is in the returns. Who in the language of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Sumter, must “count them on the face of the return?” But we want the Judge to speak in behalf of Alabama. Now there is nothing in that, Mr. President, in the nature of a contest. There is never an election for a State officer in the legal sense, until the steps have been taken, starting out with the deposit of the ballot in the ballot box, including the returns to the County Board, etc., declar¬ ation of the result, the returns sent up here, and finally a declar¬ ation of the result by the joint convention then declaring who has been elected Governor, and to State offices. Until that declara¬ tion is made by the Speaker, or by the two houses there has been no election to any State office. You must have an election, a dec¬ laration of the result, before you can have the contest. Now there is not a line in this section that can be tortured into a jurisdiction or power to go behind the returns. It is explicitly stated they shall not have power to object to returns for any cause whatever, except the three mentioned. A little later on'the section says “contested CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 849 elections shall be determined in such manner as shall be provided by law.” Is it wise, is it, a sound policy of government to use words which we know, from Supreme Court decisions, put our State offices, our General Assembly, our Speaker, in a position where a fraud not in the returns as made out, but as allow'ed. might nullify for the time being at least the will of the people of Ala¬ bama. Let us suppose a Speaker, under the operation of the sub¬ stitute of the gentleman from Sumter, and here are the returns. Somebody objects. Why, he says, isn’t that genuine, isn’t it sent by the Board of Supervisors, yes. Didn’t it come through the mails? Yes. But, Mr. Speaker, I don’t ask to prove that the elec¬ tion was not fair, nor to go behind that, but I have proof that a clerk in the office it may be, who was left to fill in the figures, purposely put in 2,000 or 3,000 votes more than the man got, in order to change the result in the State. The Speaker must an¬ swer, I am a ministerial dumm}^ I am bound to count it. The State election not many years ago hinged on the vote of one coun¬ ty, and about 1,500 votes at that. The difference as to that caus¬ ed the Smith-Lindsay contest. If your Speaker and General As¬ sembly are bound up in a ministerial jacket, the answer must be, when any one of the questions arise to which I have adverted we are doing what the Constitution says we must. We have no discretion. We must take that return. It is here and we must count it; and thus the act of a clerk may put out the officers elected by the people of Alabama and give their offices to others, and drive the real elected officer into a contest—and all because of one single little fact—the ascertainment of which does not seek to go beyond the return—could not he investigated by the Gen¬ eral Assembly, becau.se inadvertently this Constitutional Conven¬ tion had put in the word “ministerial.” I hope, therefore, that this convention will not put in the word “ministerial” as regards the functions of a General Assembly. We did put it in as regards the Speaker in the article first reported, because we wanted him to be subject to the powers of the two houses, but we said nothing about the power of the two houses. Afterwards we came in and limited that but left them some judicial power, and the gentle¬ man from Sumter wishes to strike out that, and say, “None of you are to have any power except what is purely ministerial.’’, I do not think his view is wise. I hope it will not be adopted. If the convention in its fear of Returning Boards, which is not justi¬ fied under the language of this section, think that nothing ought to be said about the powers of the joint convention, let us strike out the substitute, but don’t let us play on words, and put our rep¬ resentatives, our officers in a position where the fact that a man commits fraud binds them, hand and foot and. makes them power¬ less to prevent a reversal of the will of the people. They say this prima facie declaration is a small matter; but the power of State may be changed by this fraud, and the very power you give a man who is not elected may be the means of defeating the will of the people. 850 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS My friend said something yesterday about the unfortunate condition of affairs in Kentucky, because there the legfislature was vested with judicial power. So here the legislature is vested with judicial power to determine contests, and it is the only body that can be given that power unless we want to demoralize our courts and destroy their usefulness, by making them the arbiters purely of great political questions. You are bound to trust the General Assenbly. The unfortunate condition of affairs in Kentucky did not arise from the fact that the General Assembly of Kentucky had power to decide who was Governor on a contest; but it arose from the bad and vicious passions of men which resulted in the assassination of the Governor of Kentucky. I say it reverently, if the power to decide that contest had been relegated to the Al¬ mighty, instead of to a human board, nevertheless his opponents would have killed him. His death did not arise out of the clause in the Constitution of Kentucky of giving judicial power to the General Assembly. I have spoken longer than I intended, but I felt it a matter of duty. I have been surprised to find gentlemen on this floor who believe this Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment, who are certainly men of ordinary ability, ordinary good lawyers and of ordinary patriotic impulses, have been engaged here today in trying to get this Convention to adopt a vicious doctrine; and by putting it in the Constitution do something that would be destructive of the liberties of the people of Alabama. MR. SOLLIE—If it were not that the amendment or sub¬ stitute offered by the gentleman from Sumter is in lieu and stead of the section now" proposed b}^ the Committee I, perhaps, should be against the amendment offered by the gentleman from Sumter, for the reason that as I read Section 4 of the article under consid¬ eration there is no need for a change at all. There is an old adage to the effect substantially, that we are prone to endure the evil that we bear rather than fly to those we know not of; and our fathers in making the Declaration of Independence gave us the same idea as applied to government, but in different language. Here we have a section in our present Constitution which has been tried for twenty-five years. So far as I have been able to ascer¬ tain from inquiry among the older members of the Convention and so far as I have learned from my own reading and observa¬ tion, the evil which the change purports to remedy has never been practiced in Alabama. I learn from the more aged members that there has been no time when the officers charged with the duty of certifying returns in Alabama have so falsely handled those returns as to change an election; and we have a history of eighty- two years covering the rise, life, fall and death of quite a number of political parties. We have had the Know Nothings, we have had the Greenbackers, we have had the Whigs, we have had the Populists, and all of them have come and have had their day and gone. The Republican party has come into existence since we CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 851 have l)een a State and with all these changes of parties and with the fact that we have been engaged in one national and one civil war, and that our people have been through all the experiences that are supposed to lead men away from .their moorings and arouse their passions and sidetrack, if the Convention will excuse the expression, their judgments, there has never been an occasion when there has arisen a piactical need for the changes sought. MR. ROGERS—I wish to say to you that in my amendment I simply wish to define the power of the Joint Convention and Speaker as it is understood to exist at the present time. MR. SOLLIE—I was coming to that later. Now I will state to the Convention what I understand the meaning of Section 4 in this Article to be. As I understand it the Joint Convention in canvassing the returns and declaring the results acts ministerially. The language of this section of the Constitution is as plain and simple and straightforward as can be, and I can scarcely conceive how gentlemen on the floor of the Convention can conclude that out of this language there may be raised up the proposition that the Joint Convention in canvassing the returns act in any aspect of the case judicially. My construc¬ tion of this section of the Constitution is that the Joint Conven¬ tion, together with the Speaker of the House of Representatives in the act of declaring the result of an election act ministerially and not judicially. The amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sumter is simplj’^ a constitutional declaration of what I con¬ ceive to be the meaning of the section as it now stands. I further contend that there is not, in section 4, such uncertainty in the language as to leave it open to doubt as to whether or not the joint Convention has control of the Speaker in declaring the result. I will read the language of the Convention. “He shall, during the first week of the session, to which said return shall be made, open and publish them in the presence of both Houses of the Gen¬ eral Assembly in joint Convention. The persons having the high¬ est number of votes for either of said offices shall be declared duly elected.” My contention is that that means “shall be declared elected by the Joint Convention, not by the Speaker of the House.” The Speaker of the House simply opens and places before the Convention the returns from the different counties as a clerk might do, and then the joint Convention takes up and canvasses the returns and declares the result. Therefore, as I say, with the section as it now stands in the Constitution the amendment of the gentleman from Sumter is not necessary, because it only seeks to do that which is apparent and clear in the section as it now stands. Now, as to changing the present Constitution and giving the Convention which is to declare the result of the election, new duties, new powers and new authority. The proposition is to 852 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS give them in addition to ministerial powers which they now hold by law certain judicial authority and clothe them with certain judicial functions. The gentlemen of the Committee and the Chairman of the Committee undertake to avoid the force of the argument that the joint Convention should not be made in the first instance and before the declaration of the result, a body for contesting the election—I say, they seek, it seems to me, to avoid the force and effect of that argument by making them a contesting body or a body for the purpose of carrying^ on contests only to a very limited extent. Now, Mr. President, a contested election begins with and includes the result as it is declared, and all that pertains to that result, the holding of the election, the counting of the votes, and everything from the beginning to the end of the election and up to the time when the returns are placed before the Speaker of the House and there laid before the Convention. All that is back of that which is fraudulently and wrongfully done comes within the scope and purview of the contest. Why, then, should we invite a body organized not as a court but as a political organization, without any definite rules, without any limitations upon their power to act, without any demarkation lines, without anything by which the people may know how they are going to proceed or how far they will go in this direction or that, or what processes they will resort to, or how they will con¬ duct their proceedings—all left to them, to proceed nolens volens, and to say, "we do this or that,” with no provisions of law laying down the rules to govern them, while the people stand off and wait and this joint Convention proceeds to set as a judicial tri¬ bunal and goes certain lengths into the contest of the election for the purpose of ascertaining whether there has been fraud in the election. If we may take the first step, if we may put upon the joint Convention the power or the duty or the right ex mero motu to judicially take this first step, why not let them go two steps or three steps or half way or nine-tenths and leave only, one-tenth of the contest to come up and be passed on finally when the contest has in fact been started in the ordinary way ? I say where is the rule of reason for putting these men a short distance into the judicial aspect of the case and not' allow them to go any further? Well, let us see. The gentlemen speaking before the report of the Committee and against the substitute offered by the gen¬ tlemen from Sumter, have given some reasons. They say that if a forgery has been committed by the Judge of Probate, or the result as declared is sent in falsely, this at least should be correct¬ ed. I suppose they expect to cover in that suggestion, both mis¬ takes and forgeries; that it would be only fair to permit the Joint Convention, to unravel at least that far, which could easily be CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 852 done, in order that as near the truth as may be ascertained in de¬ claring the result as is possible. But let us see if when we view the case on all sides, we do not see rising up before us greater evils than those that exist as the matter stands today. We have in favor of the Constitution as it now stands, the fact that it has never worked evil. We have the probability that it will not work evil. , We have the fact of its proven wisdom, that it has been tried; it is a tried friend and tried fundamental law; something, that the people know how to confide in, to cling to, and lean upon; something that the people of Alabama will have confidence in, having lived under it for a quarter of a century, and when it is sent back to them for ratifi¬ cation they will readily ratify it. We have as against that, the possibility that some ministerial officer from the counties will, either through mistake or through fraud, send up from the county to the State, a false return. What more have we against that? We have the fact that these returns come in just at the time when men’s minds are excited; when their judgment is perhaps off its guard for the time being, and place is given to their passions, to their political aspirations, and to their ambitions. We have a body with no defined limits, with no lines within which it must act, with power to go down to the counties. They can go to the rural districts, where officers in charge of elec¬ tions, as we know, as a matter of fact, are not very well trained in law, and not very capable of getting up the returns as the re¬ turns should be. Perhaps in some cases, if you take these returns and compare them with the law, there would be such substantive defects in them as that the Joint Convention, hearing the matter, would hold them so defective as to require them to declare for the counties what the results were, and especially might that be true, Mr. President, when there was a dominant political faction after a contest of that kind. In the meantime the man who is' elected on the face of the returns, is held out of his office by a sort of hybrid, half ministerial, half judicial and largely political investigation—a new system of tribunal foisted upon the people of Alabama. We say that when we come to consider it in these various aspects, that we think it would be an error to make the change recommended by the Committee; that it would be against right and justice, so to alter this Section of the Constitution as to put these questionable changes into it and give to the Joint Conven¬ tion these questionable powers. While it remains as it is, they meet, and upon the face of the returns declare the result; and then, under the present Constitution, as it now is, there follows the provision that a contest may be had before them, in Joint Con¬ vention, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law. 854 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS And here arises another objection—the prescribing by law. When you begin to give the particulars of how the laws should be executed, and what shall be done in detail, in Constitution making, you always run the risk of going apart from the legiti¬ mate office of the Constitution and descending into the domains of simple legislation. There is a well defined distinction between the two, the office of a Constitutional provision and the office of a legislative enactment. The Constitution has finished its office, when it declares and defines the frame of Government and the general principles of that Government, and sets out and secures the personal liberties of the people. It is the office of legislation to go into details, but not a Constitution, and it is just at this point, that we run against the danger. We put into this Consti¬ tution, in the first Article that is passed upon by this Convention the dangerous precedent of permitting this Constitutional Con¬ vention to go into the domain of legislation, instead of keeping in the bounds of what legitimately comes within the purview of the Constitution. And, Mr. President, we might go on ad infini¬ tum with reasons why this charge should not be made in our present Constitution, but will not pursue the subject further. And inasmuch as we choose between what appears to be the evil of the substitute and that of the Section as reported by the Com¬ mittee, I for one shall vote for the substitute offered by the gen¬ tleman from Sumter, although, if I had a chance to vote it down, so as not to leave a worse one before us, perhaps I would object to both of them. MR. DUKE—This convention has been listening for nearly two days to the able arguments on this subject, and it appears to me that a majority of the orators have spoken on it, if not all of them, and I think this convention is sufficiently enlightened on the subject, and I do not believe, Mr. President, that there is any one in this convention now so eloquent and so logical as to be able to change the vote of any delegate upon this floor. I think every delegate has made up his mind as to how he will vote on this question, and I do not see any reason for protracting this de¬ bate, at the cost of a thousand dollars a day, when there is no good to come of it. I therefore move the previous question. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—As the mover of this resolution, under the rules of this body, I have the right to close? MR. DUKE—After the question is put to the House. THE PRESIDENT pro tem—The Chair concedes the right of the gentleman to close, but the previous question has been call¬ ed; is the call for the previous question sustained? The main question was ordered. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I desire to yield the time allotted to me, to Judge Robinson of Chambers to close this debate. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 855 MR. ROBINSON (Chambers)—I have listened carefully and attentively to the able, long and prolonged argument of the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery, giving his construction of this section of the Article reported by the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment, and every step he took was along a precipice that was dan¬ gerous to the peace and prosperity of the State of Alabama. Now, he concedes himself, that this is a Returning Board, but a very small returning board. Now, Mr. President, I will ask the delegates to this convention who is to construe that section the member from Montgomery, or the joint convention that sits and before which this vote is counted. Possibly the member from Montgomery will not be present. Possibly he may not be a mem¬ ber of that joint convention, and if there are differences of opinion in this body, and if there are some of us that construe it to mean that the door is open, why may not that joint convention construe that the door is open to have a judicial investigation of the mat¬ ter. Now, Mr. President, he concedes that this joint convention acts judicially, to a limited extent. What is a judicial tribunal? It is a tribunal that has the power to hear and to determine. If it has the power to hear and determine, it has the power to hear and determine the whole case, and that convention is the body that construes it and acts upon it. Now what do we have here. We have the same body that has a judicial investigation to estab¬ lish a prima facie right, and if a contest is inaugurated, we have the same judicial tribunal to try over the same case, and make the final decision. Now isn’t that so. Now they would probably say, why go into these two judicial determinations on the question. Mr. President the object of that provision under the consti¬ tution of this State, and the constitution of the United States and of all of the States, is that the Speaker shall stand there as a simple machine. What power has the joint convention under the old construction? Simply to be present and hear. Now that power is delegated to the Speaker, because there is no other State officer who can take those returns and count them up and declare the result. Why? Because they are all elected at the same time. Every State officer is elected at the same time, except the judges of the Supreme Court, who possibly have two years longer some¬ times, but the next time they are elected at the same time, and then there is no machinery at all, by which you can say, you must meet and open these returns and declare the result. Mr. President, this is dangerous because the danger will only rise when there is a close contest between two parties. That is the question that the General Assembly will be divided on polit¬ ically as the two candidates for Governor are divided politically. Let us look at the practical results, and illustrate how this will operate. The Speaker opens the returns, and a gentleman objects; 856 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS he objects on the ground that it is a fraudulent return, that the officers did not sign it. That is a question to be determined by the court that this committee has established. What will they do? Hear the testimony of one witness? No, Mr. President, they will hear the testimony of all witnesses, and arrive at the fact, is that a fraud, is that a forgery, and on that question they sit- as a court and they must hear all the testimony and all the ar¬ gument that may be brought up in this joint convention. It would take possibly three or four days to determine one county, and every county is subject to the same exception and the same objection and same investigation. MR. JONES—Could not the Joint Convention now, if they were mean enough, throw out a good return that was not ob¬ jectionable, in order to elect a Governor or State officer of any party ? MR. ROBINSON—They could not, because they have no power. The Speaker would declare that the man was elected, and that Joint Convention could make no other declaration, and the courts of the country under that power would say that the Speaker was the party to declare the result and not the Joint Con¬ vention. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Could not the Speaker, if he was mean enough to do it, throw out the return, and elect his man, on the ground that the return was wrong. MR. ROBINSON—Yes, and that is simply what the Joint Convention is there for, to be present and see that he declares the result, as it appears upon the face of the returns, and that is di¬ rectly and simply the substitute offered by the gentleman from Sumter. Now, Mr. President, if that investigation could be prolonged, by an able and astute and profound lawyer as the gentleman from Montgomery, he could consume two or three days in the examina¬ tion of witnesses, and how are you going to stop it. Here is a court with this question before it. And it would be so with every county where the objection was raised. If you come here and establish a judicial tribunal to establish a prima facie righ(, and when a contest comes into the other end of the Capitol, -the same court institutes and carries on another judicial tribunal to estab¬ lish and ascertain the same results. Mr. President, that is dan¬ gerous. The policy of this State, and of other States, has been that this Speaker sits there as a machine, and if we could adopt a machine that we could dump their returns into from the different counties, and turn a crank and grind out how many votes each candidate received, and who was elected, that would serve the purpose of the Convention, and the policy of the State, as well as the speaker does. If you examine the old Constitution you will CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 857 see that it says the Speaker shall open and ^hc ^ the oresence of the Joint Convention composed of both branches of Ae Genera? Assembly. Now, Mr. President, what - the ^at daneer here’ We have got to trust the report the county otti cers They are sworn to discharge their duty. The public knows what the Action has been declared and I ^ not thmk that yop could find any Judge of Probate, or any Circuit Clerk, or y Sheriff that would send his name to perdition estimation of the people, by saying that a candidate received 100 votes, when he received 500 votes and you all know it. It never has be^n do^, it will never likely be done, and this is only to establish the prima facie case That is all that the Joint Convention and the Speaker shoSirS’ allowed to do. It is dangerous the other wa/- Who¬ ever you open the door for an investigation, you cannot say whe it shall be shut You cannot say how far it shall be opened. You «ntt ?ay how >u. that Join, Convention may go and determine that this man ought not to have the pnma facie case, because he was fraudulently elected. THE PRESIDENT pro tern—The question before the Con- vention is the adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Sumter, and the report of the Committee. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—And upon that question I demand the ayes and noes. The call was sustained, the roll call resulted as follows; AVER. Ashcraft, Banks, Barefield, Blackwell, Boone, Brooks, Burns, Carnathon, Case, Chapman, Cobb, Cornwall, Cunningham, Davis, of DeKalb, Eley, Espy, Grayson, Greer, of Perry, Haley, Heflin, of Chambers, Henderson, Hood, Totals—64. Jenkins, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Ledbetter, Leigh, Locklin, Lowe (Lawrence), McMillan (Wilcox), Martin, Maxwell, Merrill, Miller (Wilcox), Moody, Morrisette, Murphree, NeSmith, Norman, Oates, O’Neill (Jefferson), Opp, Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Pillans, Pitts, Reynolds (Henry), Robinson, Rogers (Lowndes), Rogers (Sumter), Searcy, Sentell, Smith, Mac. A., Sollie, Sorrell, Thompson, Walker, Weatherly, Whiteside, Willet, Williams (Elmore), Wilson (Clarke), Wilson (Wash’gton), 958 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Bartlett, Beddow, Byars, Cardon, Cofer, Dent, Eyster, Ferguson, Fitts, Foster, Freeman, Gilmore, Graham, of Talladega. Handley, Harrison, Totals—44. NOES. Hinson, Hodges, Howell, Jackson, Jones, of Montgomery, Knight, Lomax, Macdonald, McMillan (Baldwin), Malone, Mulkey, O'Neal (Lauderdale), Pettus, Phillips, Porter, Reynolds (Chilton), Samford, Sanders, Sanford, Selheimer, Sloan, Smith, Morgan M., Spears, Tayloe, Watts, Weakley, Whiteside, Williams (Barbour), Williams (Marengo), absent or not voting. Messrs. President, Almon, Altman, Beavers, Bethune, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Carmichael, of Coffee, Carmichael, of Colbert, Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Craig, Davis, of Etowah, DeGraffenreid, Duke, Fletcher, Foshee, Glover, Graham, of Montgomery, Grant, Greer, of Calhoun, Heflin, of Randolph, Howze, Inge, Jones, of Bibb, King, Kirkland, Kyle, Long (Butler), Long (Walker), Lowe (Jefferson), Miller (Marengo), Norwood, Opp, O'Rear, Palmer, Parker (Cullman), Proctor, Reese, Renfro, Smith (Mobile), Spragins, Stewart, Studdard, Vaughan, Waddell, White, Winn, During the roll call: MR DUKE—I would vote no on this question, but I am paired with the delegate from Greene, Judge Coleman, who would vote aye. MR. KYLE—I would vote no, but I am paired with the delegate from Walker, Mr. Long. So the substitute was adopted. MR. BOONE—I move the adoption of the section as amend¬ ed by the adoption of the substitute. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 859 A vote being taken the section was adopted. MR. O’NEAL—I desire to ask unanimous consent to intro¬ duce a resolution. “Resolved, That the report of the Committee on Local Legis¬ lation be made a special order for consideration immediately after the conclusion of the consideration of the report of the Commit¬ tee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. MR. O’NEAL—This morning I made a motion that the re¬ port of the Committee on Local Legislation be made a special order immediately after the report of the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights which Committee received unanimous consent to have its report considered and made a special order following the special order we are now considering. The re¬ fusal of the Convention to accord the same courtesy to the Com¬ mittee on Local Legislation, could only be construed as a dis- courtesv, which I am sure was not intended. I think the refusal of the Convention to allow this report to be made a special order was due to a misunderstanding which seems to have occurred be¬ tween the Committee on Local Legislation and the Committee on Legislative Department. I desire to say the Chairman on the Legislative Department has agreed to submit a supplemental re¬ port as to any matters to which that Committee objects in the report of the Committee on Local Legislation, which supple¬ mental report can be considered at the same time the report of the Committee on Local Legislation is considered. He agrees with me it would be utterly impossible for this Convention to consider the report of the Committee on Local Legislation and the report of the Committee on Legislative Department at the same time. We have agreed, therefore, that the report of the Committee on Local Legislation and the supplemental report which the Committee on Legislation Department may submit covering any objections they may have to any part of the report of the Committee on Local Legislation, may be considered at the same time; and, therefore, I renew my request and ask unanimous consent to have this report made a special order immediately fol¬ lowing the report of the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rights. MR. WEATHERLY—I would suggest that the latter part of the agreement about the supplemental report should be add¬ ed to your resolution. MR. BURNS—I rise to a point of order. That is out of order without a suspension of the rules. MR. O’NEAL—I have moved that the rules be suspended. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—What is the gentleman’s an¬ swer to the question just propounded? 860 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. O’NEAL—I consent that that be embodied in it. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—That the supplemental report shall be considered at the same time the report of the Commit¬ tee on Local Legislation is considered. MR. O’NEAL—Yes. Upon a vote being taken the rules were suspended. MR. O’NEAL—Now, my motion is that the report of the Committee on Local Legislation, and any supplement report sub¬ mitted by the Committee on Legislative Department, shall be made a special order, immediately after the consideration by this Convention of the report of the Committee on Preamble to the Constitution and Declaration of Rights. The resolution was read, and upon a vote being taken the resolution was adopted. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I desire to make a report for the Committee on the Journal. The report of the Committee was read, stating that the Journal for the twenty-sixth day had been examined and found to be correct. On motion of Mr. Boone (Mobile) the report was adopted. MR. CARNATHAN—I ask leave to introduce a resolution. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I inquire of the gentleman if it will take up much time. MR. CARNATHAN—No, it is very short. The resolution was read as follows; Resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, that hereafter no member shall speak longer than ten minutes nor more than twice on the same subject. Referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I ask that we now take up the next section in the report of the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment. I think we are at Section 23. Section 23 was read as follows: Sec. 23—The Secretary of State shall be the custodian of the Seal of the State, and shall authenticate therewith all official acts of the Governor; his approval of laws, resolutions, appointments to office and administrative orders, excepted. He shall keep a register of the official acts of the Governor, and when necessary. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 861 shall attest them, and lay copies of same, together with copies of all papers relative thereto, before either House of the General Assembly when required to do so, and shall perform such other duties as may be prescribed by law. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move the adoption of the section. MR. EYSTER—I move to amend by adding the word “great” just before the word “seal.” THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The gentleman will send up his amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will state to my friend that that is the language of the Constitution now, and there is no seal of the State except the Great Seal, and for that reason we did not put the word “great” in there. MR. SAMFORD—I move that the amendment of the gentle¬ man be laid on the table. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The amendment has not yet been prepared. The amendment was thereupon sent to the clerk, and read as follows: Amend by adding the word “great” before the word “seal” in the first line. MR. SAMFORD—Now I move that it be laid upon the table. The motion to table was carried. The President here resumed the chair. MR. SAMFORD—I now move the adoption of Section 23. The motion prevailed and the section was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next sec¬ tion. Section 24—All grants and commissions shall be issued in the name and by the authorit}' of the State of Alabama, .sealed with the Great Seal and signed by the Governor and countersigned by the Secretary of State. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move the adoption of that Section. The Section was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next sec¬ tion. 862 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Section 25 was read as follows: Sec. 25.—Should the office of Secretary of State, State Au¬ ditor, State Treasurer, Attorney General, Superintendent of Edu¬ cation, or Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries become vacant, for any cause, the Governor shall fill such vacancy until the disability is removed or a successor elected and disqualified. In case any of said officers shall become of unsound mind, such unsoundness shall be ascertained by the Supreme Court upon the suggestion of the Governor. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — I move the adoption of that Section. The Section was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Clerk will read Section 26. MR. COBB—I move the consideration of Section 26— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If the gentleman will permit me, I will say something that will do away with that and make his motion unnecessary. Sec. 26. The Governor, Lieutenant-Governor and Attorney- General are constituted a Board of Conciliation, for the adjust¬ ment of differences between employer and employe engaged in mining, manufacturing, transportation, or other lawful indus¬ tries, to which Board may be added in each case coming before it, two citizens of this or of some other State of the Union, to be appointed by the Governor. The Board may propose arbitration before it of any such dispute, whenever it deems proper; and in its discretion may hear such disputes when requested by either parties thereto. In all cases coming before it, the Board shall pass on the merits and recommend in writing what ought to be done to adjust the dispute or difference. Its judgment or aw-ard shall be advisory merely, unless both parties agree in writing, in advance, to perform the award, when it may be enforced by appropriate proceedings in the courts, under such rules and regu¬ lations as may be prescribed by law. The Board shall have the power to compel the production of papers and the attendance of witnesses in matters germane to the dispute or difference under such rules and regulations as may be provided by law. MR. BEDDOW—I desire to offer a substitute. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Montgomery has the floor. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—-I am going to move, after ex¬ plaining why I do it, to lay this Section on the table, and then the gentleman can offer the substitute. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 863 MR. BEDDOW—I will yield if the motion to lay on the table does not deprive me of the privilege of offering the substitute. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I do *^ 0 ^. ^ish to deprive the gentleman of the privilege of offering his substitute but the Co mittee is going to ask to lay the Section on the table. MR. BEDDOW—If it is laid on the table, I think it would deprive me of the privilege of offering the substitute. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—^Then I yield f9J of allowing the gentleman to offer the substitute, if he will yie in order that I may dispose of the Committee s report. The substitute was read as follows: Amendment to Section 26, Executive Department, by Beddow of Jefferson: Amend by striking out Section 26 and insert the following in lieu thereof: Section 26. A Board of Arbitration is hereby created of which the Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries shall Tx officio Secretary, and said Board shall be composed of five members two of whom shall be appointed by the employer, w by the employes, and one by the four members hereinbefore pro¬ vided for. When any dispute shall arise between employe in this State each party to such dispute shall not y the Secretary of the Board of Arbitration of their intention to submit such dispute to arbitration and each party to such dispute shall certify to said Secretary the names of the two persons se¬ lected by such party to act as arbitrators The ^ Arbitration Board shall forthwith call and commission the Arbi¬ trators so named to meet at the Capitol, who shall proceed to or ganize by electing a disinterested person to act as such fifth member of said Board. The Board so organized, shall take cog¬ nizance of such disputes only as are voluntarily submitted to for adjudication, but the Secretary shall have power to enforce in the court all of its awards. The Legislature shall, at its firs session after the adoption of this Constitution enact laws for the enforcement of the awards of the Board herein created and pro¬ vides compensation for the members thereof. MR. SAMFORD—Mr. President— THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Pike— MR. TONES—I yielded the floor, as I understood it, with the distinct understanding with the chair and *be gentleman from Je- ferson, that as soon as his substitute was read, ^ floor, and state why the Committee withdraws the article that it reported. 864 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SAMFORD—I have no objecion to that. I was on the committee myself. If I have the floor, I yield it to the Chair¬ man of the Committee. THE PRESIDENT—Ordinarily the mover of the resolution would be entitled to recognition after introducing his resolution. The gentleman from Jefferson, and the gentleman from Mont¬ gomery made some arrangement about the floor that the chair did not hear exactly. MR. BEDDOW—I desire, Mr. President, only to make an explanation as to why I offer that as a substitute for the sec. MR. JONES—Of course I will not stand in the way of my friend from Jefferson, but I started to state the Committee was going to withdraw this article, but we wanted to give the rea¬ sons for its withdrawal, and after that I was going to move to lay the section on the table. My friend from Jefferson said that would prevent his putting in his substitute, and I said I had no ob¬ jection to yielding the floor for the purpose provided he would allow me to speak as to the reasons why we want to lay on the table the section reported by the committee. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Jefferson may make his explanation. MR. JONES—I yield the floor to him for that purpose. MR. BEDDOW—Mr. President, when the Committee on the Executive Department made their report, I for one, was willing to adopt it as a whole, but I am one of the delegates from the largest County in the State of Alabama, and within whose do¬ mains there are more laborers than I suppose any three other countries of the State. After this report of the Committee on the Executive Department had been printed and got into the hands of my constituents, members of this Convention began to receive communications from the various labor organizations throughout the State, opposing the section as reported by the Committee. They maintained that a Board of Arbitration or conciliation, as the case may be, in the words of this section amounted to noth¬ ing. I immediately put myself in communication with my con¬ stituents, and I had a favorable opportunity to do so, because the delegates to the United Iron Workers Convention was in session in the city of Birmingham, and is no win session, and I inquired of them as to their desire in this matter. I will say to this con¬ vention that that body of men represent from six to ten thou¬ sand laboring people in the district from which I hail and the amendment that I have offered as a substitute to this section is the embodiment of what they themselves desire, and which they themselves drafted and sent to me, and which I introduced on yesterday. I have changed the language somewhat, so as to make it applicable to this article that is now under consideration, but CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 86$ the substance in its entirety is as. they desire. I have no desirfe, except to cast my vote, and lift my voice in behalf of what they themselves desire. They have represented that by the assemblage that is now assembled in the city of Birmingham, and as this body has not been worried by petitions from any laborers throughout the State as they have left all the matters entirely to the discre¬ tion of this convention, and as this is the only thing that they have asked at the hands of this convention, I feel that it is the duty of this body of gentlemen to give it to them. There is no use in our putting an article or section into the constitution, con¬ stituting the Governor, the Secretary of State and Attorney Gen¬ eral a mere advisory board, but should this section that I have in¬ troduced as a substitute, be enacted into law, it leaves it with both the employer and employe to determine for themselves whether or not they shall submit their matters to arbitration. If they agree to that, this amendment affords them the opportunity to select their own arbitrators, and it is not fixed by the constitu¬ tion in an arbitrary way. It affords the same opportunity to em¬ ployer to select his two arbitrators and these four men select the fifth man, and it also provides that when they consent to it, that the award of the arbitrators shall be final, and that the legislature shall pass such laws as will enforce this award of the arbitration board. This is a small request from this large citizenship of the State. It is a small thing for us to recognize, and I hope, before this convention turns it down that they will give it the consid¬ eration that it deserves. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I would like to ask the gentle¬ man a question. Does this substitute that is offered, contemplate the creation of five constitutional offices that would carry salaries? MR. BEDDOW—It constitutes a Board of Arbitrators, two to be selected by the employer, and two by the employe and those four select the fifth. The ordinance provides that in case of dis¬ pute, they shall select the Board, and it also provides that the Legislature shall provide such compensation as in their descrip¬ tion they may see fit to pay for their services. MR. O’NEAL—What is the term of office of these Arbi¬ trators? MR. BEDDOW—These Arbitrators have no terms of office. In case of any dispute arising, they are selected, and when that dispute is over, their term is out. MR. O’NEAL—There are different arbitrators for every dis¬ pute? MR. BEDDOW—Yes Sir. MR. O’NEAL—But the Commissioner of Agriculture is to be a permanent arbitrator? 866 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR, BEDDOW—He is ex-officio secretary of the Board, for the purpose of calling them together, and he is already provided by law with expense money with which he could defray his neces¬ sary expenditures in these matters. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I ask the Chairman of the Commit¬ tee if he will yield the floor for a minute. I rise merely to call the attention of the delegates who were present at the meeting at Birmingham, a while before the election, that my understanding of what meeting was that this convention would in no way inter¬ fere with the rights and the privileges of organized labor. A com¬ mittee of the Trades Council composed as it is of labor organiza¬ tions of different kinds in the county of Jefferson, waited upon the delegates then present, and a resolution was introduced, grant¬ ing the request that they made. It strikes me therefore that gen¬ tlemen on this floor who voted affirmatively on that question in the city of Birmingham, would be violating a covenant into which they entered and agreed. The substitute offered by my colleague of Jefferson is from the largest body of organized labor in the county of Jefferson. Not only the largest, but probably the most influential, and also the most important, but I do not believe that this convention has the right to take up the question here pre¬ sented by one particular class of organized labor, and enact it or ordain it, into the constitution, over the pledge made to the Trades Council, which represents all of the different sub-divisions of or¬ ganized labor. There is one other point, Mr. President, which refers to the merits of the question. I myself favor arbitration. I have been informed by competent lawyers that this can be done by the legislature unless the Constitution restricts it. There is no proposition pending, nor will any be introduced into this con¬ vention, prohibiting the legislature from providing for Boards of Arbitration. If there was such a provision I should feel it my duty to vote against it. But inasmuch as the legislature can es¬ tablish these Boards of Arbitration, defining their duties, their salaries and all things necessary, it strikes me we should not place it in the organic law, and for these reasons I feel that it is my duty to oppose not only the original section offered by the Committee, which it seems they are anxious to get rid of, but also the substitute offered by my colleague from Jefferson, and I hope that it will not prevail. MR. BEDDOW—I would like to ask the gentleman a ques¬ tion before he takes his seat. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly. MR. BEDDEW—Do you understand that the pledge made to the laboring people of our district, when the delegates were as¬ sembled in Birmingham, was that we would not do anything in this convention looking to the good of the working people. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 867 MR. CUNNINGHAM—No sir. MR. BEDDOW—Was it not their request that nothingf be done that would injure. MR. CUNNINGHAM — Or in any way interfere with the rights and privileges and immunities of organized labor. MR. BEDDOW—Yes, but not as to those things that look to their good. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Well, I admit that they would not ask this Convention not to do anything that would look to their good, but they seemed, on that occasion, to interpret that it would not be to their good for this convention in any way to interfere with the rights and privileges, I will say to my colleague from Jefferson, is the adjustment of wages. The miners’ organization adjusts its wages, not the Trades Council. The brick layers’ or¬ ganization adjust their wages and not the Trades Council, nor the Miners’ organization. The Amalgamated Association of Steel and Iron Workers adjust their wages, separate and distinct. There¬ fore if this ordinance should obtain and become a part of the Constitution, I undertake to say that while the intention of it might be good, and it might in reality be to the benefit of the lab¬ orer yet I would say that it would take away from them, largely at any rate, their system of regulating wages, as it now exists. The miners, for instance, have a sliding scale, and it would trans¬ fer from organized labor to this Board of Arbitration this ques¬ tion of the settlement of wages, and for that reason I do not be¬ lieve that we should place it in the Constitution. MR. BEDDOW—I would like to ask the gentleman a fur¬ ther question. Does the gentleman from Jefferson understand that the substitute offered by me requires them to submit to ar¬ bitration. MR. CUNNINGHAM—No sir, I understand it to say that it was optional. MR. BEDDOW—Purely voluntary, whenever they desire to. MR. deGRAFFENREID — Cannot they do that now, Mr. Beddow, without any law? MR. BEDDOW—I presume they could without any law. But this is at their request. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the substitute pfr' fered by the gentleman from Jefferson. ^ MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I move that this Convention do now adjourn until 12 o’clock on Monday— g58 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR O’NEAL — I make the point of order rules we iljourn until 3 o'clock. The rule takes cKect today. Additional leaves of absence were WetoXTlfc J?eT«r«b^«Jd« this afternoon. The Chair made a number of announcements. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale) — I rise to the point of order that under the rules this Convention is now adjourned. 'TWP president—^T he point of order is well taken, and the ?o“n«rtfofsunds IdjourneS until 3 o'clock this afternoon. AFTERNOON SESSION The Convention reconvened at 3 o’clock p.m. Upon a call of the roll, one hundred and one delegates responded. The following additional leaves of absence were Bani for tlTy and also for the 13th; Mr. O'Neal for Monday; Mr. Cornwall for this afternoon. MR! burns—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a reso¬ lution by request The resolution was read as follows: Resolved that it shall not be considered a breach of etiquette for members of this Convention to wear shirt-waists at the after¬ noon session of the Convention. THE PRESIDENT —^The resolution is out of order. MR. FITTS—I desire to offer a very short resolution. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I believe that the matter was be¬ fore the House when we adjourned for dinner was the resolution of the gentleman from Birmingham which was offered as a sub¬ stitute l^thT report of the Committee to Section 26. I move that that resolution be laid upon the table. MR BEDDOW— On that I call for the ayes and noes, and I hope there are enough delegates here who will sustain the call. MR deGRAFFENREID—I want to say, Mr. President, that if th“eeut1e.Sm fro^ Birmingham desires to make any fur her JernSkf upon the subject. I will withdraw the motion for that purpose, but for that purpose alone. MR. FERGUSON—I also desire to say a word on that propo¬ sition. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 869 THE PRESIDENT—^The question is, is the call for the ayes and noes sustained? The call was not sustained. THE PRESIDENT—^The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Hale to lay upon the table the substitute offered by the gentleman from Jefferson. The motion to table was carried upon a viva voce vote. THE PRESIDENT—^The question recurs upon the original Section as reported by the Committee. MR. O’NEAL—I have an amendment to offer. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I had the floor. Mr. Presi¬ dent, I will state that in drawing this provision, the Committee was conforming to what they believed to be the wishes of a large number of the employes and of a good many employers. We simply wished to have a Board, a part of which was constituted in advance, which could offer its good offices. We learned after¬ wards that there was considerable objection on the part of the employers of labor who thought that the publicity might not be agreeable, and some of the laboring men themselves did not liS:e the Constitution of the Board, and those are the reasons, without going into the details of all the provisions of the Section, why the Committee is now willing, and I move in their behalf, to lay the Section as reported by the Committee, on the table. Upon a vote being taken the motion to table was carried. MR. BROWNE—I desire to offer an amendment to the re¬ port of the Committee on the Executive Department. THE PRESIDENT—To what Section? MR. BROWNE—It will be Section 26 as proposed, to be inserted for Section 26. MR. ROBINSON—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentlernan will state the point of order. MR. ROBINSON—There is nothing before the Convention. MR. deGRAFFENREID—There is no Section 26. MR. SAM FORD—There is nothing before the Convention to amend. The Section has been laid upon the table, and can¬ not be amended while it is laying on the table. MR. BROWNE—I do not propose to amend that Section, but to amend the report. The whole report is before the body, and subject to amendment. 870 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The whole report is not before the Convention at this time. The question would be confined to the particular Section. It seems to the Chair that unless the gfcntle- man moves to take the Section from the table MR. BROWNE—I do not desire to amend the Section at all, but it is to insert a Section. THE PRESIDENT—The i^entleman mig^ht add it as a Sec¬ tion to the entire report, as an additional Section. MR. BROWNE—Yes, but there would be the same condi¬ tion after the whole report is adopted; there would be no Sec¬ tion before the House, and there bein^ nothing before the body, it would be out of order. THE PRESIDENT—At that time the whole report would come up for consideration. Read the next Section. The Clerk read Section 27 , as follows: Sec. 27. The Governor, Auditor and Treasurer, or the Gov¬ ernor and either the Auditor or Treasurer, when there are funds in the Treasury not immediately needed, may loan out the same on call, for such time and at such rate of interest, as they may deem advisable, taking as collateral, bonds of the United States, or of this State, to the full value of the amount loaned, and the interest agreed to be paid therefor; such loans shall not be made until after one week’s public notice, through some paper published at the Capital, and a record of such loans shall be kept in the of¬ fice of the Auditor, and reported by the Governor to the General Assembly at its next meeting. The Committee’s amendment to the Section was then read: “Amend by adding after the words ‘as they may deem advisable’ in the third line, the following words, ‘to the best bidder.’ ” The minority report of the committee was read, as follows: And he further recommends that Section 27 (which relates to the loaning of money in the State Treasury) as reported by said Committee, be stricken out and do not pass. Respectfully submitted, Watkins M. Vaughan. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the adoption of the minority report. MR. HANDLEY—As I understand it, there is a majority report, a minority report, and an amendment. I desire to offer a substitute for all of them. The substitute was read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 871 “That if at any time there is a surplus in the State Treasury above the needs of the. State Government, economically adminis¬ tered, it shall be the duty of the Governor to report that fact to the General Assembly, and in that event it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to reduce the rate of taxation allowed by this Constitution, in the proportion that such surplus bears to the ordinary expenses of the State Government, honestly admin¬ istered. MR. HANDLEY—It pains me very much to disagfree with this committee, and especially the distinguished Chairman, but as I understand it, this is a proposition to go into the loan busi¬ ness, and to loan out the money belonging to the people of the State. I am unalterably opposed to the State of Alabama going into any business whatever. She has been in business frequently. Eleven years before I was born, sir, they went into the bank¬ ing business. In 1823 and in 1832 and ’36 they established three branch banks, one at Montgomery, one at Mobile and the other at Decatur, and in 1841 and 1842 they went into liquidation, and today we are paying taxes on three or four millions of dollars in bonds, and have been paying it for sixty years nearly— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—A thousand dollars a day. MR. HANDLEY—No, not that much I reckon. This State, when it went into the banking business issued bonds to an amount of fourteen millions of dollars, and the record shows it. They went into the banking business, and the result was they lost in the liquidation, and in the final wind up, three or four millions of dollars, and the people of Alabama have been paying interest on that money ever since. That is not all. In 1868 or ’70, when this State was under Republican rule, they loaned the credit of the State to the ex¬ tent of sixteen thousand dollars per mile, for railroads. What was the result? Alabama was found to be in debt about thirty or thirty-two millions of dollars. In ’74 the Bald Eagle of the mountains was elected Governor, Mr. George S. Houston, and he came down here, sir, and with his Legislature he reduced that debt to about ten millions of dollars. I have been connected with the financial world for thirty or forty years, and I know it is almost an impossibility for any law, or anything to be contrived with sufficient security to take the people’s money out of the treasury. I have studied it a long time. I have been to Boston, New York and elsewhere, and I know it is a troublesome thing, and I do not want the State of Alabama to go into the loan business at all, at any price. They say there is no danger, you have United States bonds as collateral. Well, I am just from New York only a few days ago, and if a man in Alabama owns United States bonds, he can 872 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS go to New York and borrow his money at 2 per cent, ff he owns Alabama bonds he can get it very cheap. Under a L circumstances it is a dangerous thinf; We .X"s°r o treasurv and we have never loaned the credit of the btate o AlabTma without being pa.alyaed, so to speak, f"" I if T think it is a bad precedent to set, and I hope that tms Convention will strfke ou^ that Section 27, and knock out the minority report and amendment, and let us establish .'iir this idea TW f tKLsury of the State of Alabama is overtlowmg let I hi ihe dutrof the Governor to notify the Legislature of the '/achand' then’^ reduce the, ta.es. I uuders.aud ^at our treasury has 9 'ot some money in it now; later on they w i ^ t mon?y. My idea is for the people to hold it m their do not want a rich government and a poor people I to have a rich government though, and a rich peop e. Now sir, I know the point is going to be made, that you want this money in circulation. Well, I have had a great deal of experience along that line. I have „e sums borrowed money, and my idea is 'vhen you ^ 'arge su^^^ of money that it is sometimes very difficult to ^et it b , h voHo have gilt-edge security. Then there is a chance for lit¬ igation and long litigation to come up, and we have never, imt this daV opened the vaults of the treasury of the State of Ala- tama without we lost money. That is my been watching it a long time. I do not want to loan her credit or her cash. If we ever get too much cash m the treasury, I wa the taxes reduced, and collect less from the people. Now that is my idea, from a business standpoint, but I know the ooint will be argued that it will flow among the people. Yes, Ind^rfs dTngerous^ It is hard to get back, when you get it out lid it gets circulating for hundreds of miles over Alabama or somewhere else. Then we have got very few United States bonds in Ala¬ bama and they are registered and registered bonds would not be worth a cent as collateral, because they are registered at Wash- rgton. and someExpert lawyer might pass, on •I’f, mfke a mistake right there. Then there “other fact, which i<; that money is a thing that takes wings and flies away. It is a dangerous article to handle, and I do not want Alabama to go into^ business and I trust that it will not do so. Now, sir, it iusrhke we would hold the strings all the time, but the prfWcirworld is sort of like the financial world about every en vears there is a collapse, one way or the other. You know t e financial world about once in ten years gets down to rock bot¬ tom and everything is hard, hard to manage and it is hard o ge r^Si’erat lny price or in any way, and politics is Pretty «iuch the same waj. There might come a tidal wave, like in 1892, an CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 873 do some harm, and somebody else might have charge of the Treasury, and the doors would open. Now, sir, I am opposed to it. I am emphatically opposed to this measure, and I have got a substitute that simply means that if you have an overflowing' treasury, reduce the taxes of the people, and that is the way I stand on it. It is dangerous to do otherwise. I might say something else, I suppose, but I think you un¬ derstand my position. The State of Alabama issued fourteen millions of bonds, and sold them, and went into the banking busi¬ ness. and then way back in sixty-eight, or seventy they signed bonds for the railroads, sixteen thousand dollars a mile, and got bit again. It is a dangerous thing. How many banks, and loan institutions, with millions behind them, with the best talent that can be found, men of experience to conduct their affairs, have gone into bankruptcy in the last few years I just ask that question. How many banks have gone into bankruptcy, or liquidation, with millions of dollars behind them? I will tell you, gentlemen, there is nothing sure about large amounts of money. There are schem- ers and sharpers, and others who will get control of it, and if they cannot do it one way, they will work some other way, and it is a dangerous experiment, and I trust you gentlemen, and es¬ pecially you gray-haired men that have had some financial ex¬ perience, will consider this thing, and vote against this resolution. (Loud applause). MR. SAMFORD—The proposition in section 27 is to loan the money, when there is a surplus, to any individual who has State bonds or United States bonds. I am utterly opposed to the class legislation which that of itself promotes. No man m Alabama, if he is worth millions, could borrow a dollar from the Treasury of the State, unless he should own State bonds, or Unit¬ ed States bonds. How many men in this Convention hold State bonds, or United States bonds. It is in favor of a particular ckss of men, who usually are too wealthy to require the loans. The poor man, for whose benefit it might be made, is unable to fur¬ nish the security. He may have land, but that is no security un¬ der the 27th section. It must be State bonds, which he is unable to purchase; it must be United States bonds, which he cannot buy. and therefore he is shut out entirely from what is intended to be a privilege granted by the State, for it is a privilege, for the benefit of the people. My friend alluded to the banking system here in 1837. We must remember at that time that the State of Alabama issued five millions of bonds, and to this day, we have never paid the debt that was incurred by lending them. We have never been able to collect it entirely. As a basis of the indebtedness of the State, five millions of dollars, largely arising from the issue of bonds for the 874 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS purpose of raising money to lend to the people. Much of it was never collected. Our indebtedness today is something over nine millions, and it arises largely from the banking enterprises of the State sixty years ago, and its endorsement of railroad bonds, to which my able friend from Randolph has alluded. I trust that we will not go into banking, for what is it but banking? It is a fundamental principle of the Democratic party to be opposed to all banking, and especially for the government to be connected with banking establishments. Why in 1831, the Legislature of Alabama passed a resolution, denouncing the United States banks; pretesting against the es¬ tablishment of a branch of the United States Bank within the limits of Alabama, saying it was a corrupting influence, and it was intended for the benefit only of a class of citizens. They de¬ nounced it as unconstitutional, in the first instance, and extreme¬ ly impolitic in the second. Therefore I hope that we will not try to repeat the folly of 1837, by entering into a banking policy, and that we will stand by the theories of those men of thirty-one who did not wish banks of a particular class established inside of the limits of this Commonwealth. I hope that the substitute will be adopted. MR. BROOKS—It seems to me that the motion before the House is the adoption or the rejection of the minority report, and it is not in order now to go back to the original report and offer a substitute for that in entirely different form, and entirely dif¬ ferent matter. It seems to me we have to dispose of the minority report first. That is the point of order I make. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I beg to dissent from the opinion of the gentleman from Mobile. The minority report comes in as a report and therefore can be amended, and the question is to strike out and the gentleman from Randolph moves that instead of striking out, that we substitute the amendment that he offers, and I make the point of order that it is germane and is in order. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—This Committee has placed the convention under obligations in making this report, if for nothing else, because it has been the occasion of a very fine speech from my friend from Randolph. We were well aware of the history of Alabama in the days of its banking and railroad experience. None of us had forgot¬ ten them. We were also aware of a sentiment which has exhibit¬ ed itself in many legislatures, and at times very strongly among the people, that it was unwise to have a large sum of money in the treasury, which was earning nothing, and which might go into circulation. The proposition therefore, is a plain business one. Is it wise for a trustee, when he has funds which he can¬ not use immediately, to loan them out on safe security. That is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 875 the whole proposition. It does not involve any question of g^oin^ into banking-. Every man who lends money is not a banker. That is only one of the functions of a bank. It is not a question of the State involving itself in precarious enterprises like it used to, when it went into the banking business, but the whole thing is this, whether we have got, not a surplus taking the year round, b.ut a million or so of dollars in the treasury which we will not need for six months. Now we cannot loan that out except on good se¬ curity. Is it wise to lend it out at all? If the House is of the opinion that it is not wise to lend it out at all, and it had better stay in the treasury, then as a business proposition, they can vote it down. But it does not involve the proposition of banking, or going into railroads or old United States banks or Federal power. I do not propose on behalf of the Committee to take up any more time on it. MR. PEARCE—I desire to offer an amendment to the minori¬ ty report. The amendment was read as follows: Strike out the words ‘‘on call” in the line three of section 27, and insert after the words “or of this State” in line four, the fol¬ lowing words, “mortgages on farm lands, crop liens, farm prod¬ ucts, such as cotton, corn, cabbage and potatoes and all other farm products all of which loans shall not be due until the crops are gathered.” THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman’s amendment will be in order after the pending substitute is disposed of. The minority report of the committee moves to strike out the entire section. It would have been in order for the minority to have moved to strike out the words contained in the section and add in lieu thereof other words. The gentleman from Randolph moves to amend the report of the minority of the Committee, by moving to add in addition to the motion made by the minority of the Committee to strike out. Therefore it seems to the Chair that the point of order made by the gentleman from Mobile is not well taken. The question will be on the adoption of the substitute of¬ fered by the gentleman from Randolph. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—There seems to be so much opposition to this proposition, that I move to lay on the table the original section, the minority report, and all amendments and sub¬ stitutes offered on it. MR. HANDLEY—I object to laying the substitute on the table. That is the very thing I want. The substitutes comes in any times, all the while; if vfe ever get an overflowing treasury, you can reduce the taxes. 876 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Upon the motion to table a division was called for, and by a vote of 62 ayes and 21 noes the motion to table was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next sec¬ tion. Section 28 was read as follows: Sec. 28. The State Treasurer, State Auditor, Attorney Gen¬ eral and the Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries shall per¬ form such duties as may be prescribed by law. The State Treas¬ urer and State Auditor shall every year at a time the General As¬ sembly may fix, make a full and complete report to the Governor, showing the receipts and disbursements of revenues of every character, and all claims audited and paid out by items, and all taxes and revenues collected and paid into the Treasury, and from what sources and they shall make reports oftener upon any mat¬ ters pertaining to their office if required by the Governor or Gen¬ eral Assembly. MR. MURPHREE—I have an amendment. Amend Section 28 by inserting after the word “Auditor’' in the first line, the word ‘'Secretary of State." Upon a vote being taken the amendment was adopted. MR. SAMFORD—I move the adoption of the section. The section was adopted. Section 29 was read as follows: Sec. 29. The State Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney Gen¬ eral, Secretary of State and Commissioner of Agriculture and In¬ dustries shall not receive to their use any fees costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation than their salaries as prescribed by law, and all fees that may be payable for any services per¬ formed, through such officers, shall be at once paid into the State Treasury, MR. WATTS—I offer an amendment. Amend Section 29 by inserting after the word “Secretar^^ of State," in the first line, the word “Superintendent of Education." MR. GRAHAM (Talladega) — I hope the gentleman will withdraw that amendment, because there are no fees going into the office of the Superintendent of Education. An incidental fund is provided for his expenses, but there is no law by which he receives any fees or commissions or anything of that kind into his office. That is provided for an incidental expense fund. MR. WATTS—Then I will withdraw it. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 877 MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I move that the section be adopted. Upon a vote being taken the section was adopted. The next was read as follows: Sec. 30. A Sheriff shall be elected in each County by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for a term of four years unless sooner removed, and shall be ineligible to such office as his own successor. Whenever any prisoner is taken from the jail or from the custody of the Sheriff or his deputy, and put to death, or suffers grevious bodily harm, owing to the neglect, connivance, cowardice or other grave fault of the Sheriff, such Sheriff may be impeached under Sec, 2 of Article VII of the Constitution; and the Governor, when satisfied, after hearing the Sheriff, that he should be impeached, may suspend him from of¬ fice for such time as he may think proper, until the impeachment proceedings are finally disposed of. MR. WILSON (Washington)—I desire to offer an amend¬ ment : Amend Section 30 by striking from lines two and three the following words, “And shall be ineligible to such office as his own successor.” MR. WILSON (Washington)—I am aware of the fact that this provision is in the present Constitution, and has been there for many years, but the bare fact that a thing was and is, is no good reason that it should be forever. I see no reason wh^-^ a Sheriff should not be allowed to succeed himself any more than any other county officer. You may as well say that the Tax Col¬ lector would refuse to do his duty you ought as well say that the Tax Collector would wink at escapes and would not make tip his delinquent list; you might as well say that an Assessor would not do his duty, and, Mr. President, where is there a county officer that has a stronger hold and more influence with the people than the Probate Judges—you might as well say that they would not do their duty. I understand that formerly sheriffs handled the administration of estates of deceased persons to a large degree in this State—that I do not think is the case today. That is the only reason that I can imagine that ever existed for preventing a Sheriff from succeeding himself. Now if we are going to say that the Sheriff shall not succeed himself it is only just to say that no county officer shall succeed himself, and I, for one, do not believe that it is right, just or wise. Now, Mr. President, I do not care to bring about a long discussion upon this matter, and knowing that the Chairman of the Committee will have the right to close the debate, I move the previous question on this amendment. The motion for the previous question on the amendment was, carried. 878 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will say, very briefly, that it has been the law, for many, many years, he is an executive of¬ ficer, we have put everybody else in a straight-jacket of that sort, and I do not see now why we should depart from the wisdom of our fathers. MR. WILSON (Washington)—May 1 ask the gentleman a question. MR. JONES—Certainly. MR, WILSON—Would the other county officers be put in the same fix? MR. JONES—Not that I know of. A vote was taken on the amendment, which was lost, and the question recurred on the amendment of the gentleman from Pike. The Clerk read the amendment as follows: Amend Section 30 by striking out that part of the Section after the period in line three. MR. SAMFORD — I desire to say that at the time of the adoption of this particular Section by the Committee of which I was a member, I gave notice to my brethren on the Committee that I would reserve the right to move to strike out this part of the Section before the Convention, and to state to the Convenion my reasons therefor. Under the law as it now is, sheriffs are elected by the people of a county. They are not elected by the people of the State at large, and they are only State officers in the sense that they are a part of the executive. They are not re¬ sponsible to the Chief FCxecutive of this State, but they are re¬ sponsible to the people who elected them. Under the law as it now is, there is a mode provided for their impeachment whenever by neglect of duty, by cowardice, or for other reasons, they fail to perform the duty imposed upon them by law, and the enforce¬ ment of that law and their removal from office is placed in the hands of the courts of the county in which they serve. They are all bonded officers, giving perhaps the largest bonds of any class of officers within the State, and they and their l)ondsmen are liable for any neglect of duty, or any cowardice shown on their part in any respect in the discharge of their duties, and I say to this Convention today that it is a long step towards centraliza¬ tion of government to attempt to remove from the hands of the people to whom the duty is owed, the right to pass upon the im¬ peachment of one of its officers. The argument may be made that as long as you leave it to the juries of the County in which these crimes are committed that no Sheriff will ever be impeach¬ ed. That argument can never be good unless this Convention de¬ clares that the people of the counties are not capable of self- government. It is wrong in principle, it is wrong in practice to CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 879 take away from the people of the counties the ri^ht to impeach the officers that they now have and remove the impeachment to the Capitol of the State. I mean no reflection upon the Supreme Court of Alabama when I say that it should not be ^iven the jurisdiction in cases like this, but I am here pleading for the rights of the people of the counties to have control over the officers that they elect and to whom their duty is. MR. OATES — Is not the Supreme Court overloaded with business now? MR. SAMFORD—I thank the gentleman from Montgomery for the suggestion that the Supreme Court of this State is con¬ stantly complaining that they are much crowded with work and we need not be hunting to give them an}^ more. Now, Mr. Presi¬ dent, I do not desire to detain this convention further along this line. I simply am here raising ni}" voice and expressing myself in my feeble way in behalf of local self-government, in l)ehalf of the people of the counties of this State controlling their own affairs, and against the tendency towards the centralization of power at the Capital of the State. They talked to me on yester¬ day about county autonomy, I tell you we cannot too jealously guard the county autonomy and the right of self government and the right to enforce the laws of the different sub-divisions of the State, and I desire, for one, to go on record here and now as being unalterably opposed to the proposition as laid down in the report of the Committee. MR. ESPY—This provision sought to be stricken out by the amendment is evidently inserted for the purpose of preventing lynching, and, Mr. President, if there is one evil from which oiir State is suffering more than another, it is the deplorable condi¬ tion of affairs with reference to lynching. If there is a crime for which there can be absolutely no excuse it is that of taking the life of a prisoner when he is in the hands of an officer. It is a further fact, Mr. President, that cannot be successfully contro¬ verted, that the negligence or the cowardice of Sheriffs in this State contributes largely to the loss of life by mobs. So long as the Sheriff can with impunity turn over his prisoner to a mob and let them take him and do as they will with him and only be answerable to the people of his county where the crime is com¬ mitted, just so long lynch-law will prevail in the State of Alabama. But whenever it is ascertained by the people that elected the Sheriff that if they go and deprive the officer of his prisoner, th^t not only the prisoner will lose his life, but that the officer will lose his office, then a public sentiment will be created, if not against lynching, at least to piotect their officer in holding his office. The only objection I have to this section, Mr. President, is that it does not go far enough. If it would go further and s^y that the Sheriff should be pul out of office, and if that law were. OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS wrv/ i„ ,or« it would no. be twelve months before lynching in the State of Alabama would be unheard of. MR. SAMFORD.-Are all ‘h' by the negligence or cowardice of the sher MR. ESPY—No, sir. , r , 1 , MR SAMFORD—Why then would the turning ou SherHfsin Alabama stop lynching in Alabama? MR. ESPY-It certainly reduce it to ^ j ^ay be pardoned for using that. Lynchings are the ^ t and wherever the good the expression, of and cease to render indirectly people of a county the lynching, then the victory protection to the "lob that does the.prisoners. It is very nearly won in the f g rnoral sentiment of a com- is like everything else, whenever t e practically munity where it is undertake to impeach a Sheriff ceases. What good is done a„d as a rule, Mr Presi- in the county where the lynclnng ^ d dent, so far as this section takes place, unless this right in the <^°"''"''"^7p.ovision e^nafted so as to get beyond provision or some other provision , tribunal before which Phe local influence and is nothing in the Sheriff may he brought for tnah^ > 1 , ^^^^t say you can this provision here that is J that you can impeach a without cause suspend the h neglect, or connivance, or Sheriff, but he ^thei^ words, when you group the words other grave fault. I" o^hei wor Sheriff or altogether they mean no ^ore o ^ himself liable to im- deputy fails to discharge his d y A ^^d why the Supreme peLhment. What good ’'ff gto^e which he should louri of A.f ama shal no be rte tntana. be be arraigned, ^hey are cert impossibility to convict a past has shown tha Whv ^ Because of the influence he has sheriff in his own ^ unles« as I said, this provision is adopt- "rivnS'wm ^?n.taue to ptivail in Alabama, and I hope, Mr. ttnTfha*. the amendment will no. preva.l. MR. FITTS - Upon as he has stated, man from Pike ^^i„ee warning and notice that he gave his brethren of the . of the Convention. I ^ould raise this that this matter was the subject desire to assure the .u Committee room, and your ?L:r..eTbiii»^h.s_^,^™ ci,ma\."o^.htr.fdeman2d in this country; towards a condition CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 881 of affairs that ought to be brought about especially at the time of the holding of this Convention especially in this Convention, es¬ pecially in this body, which has met for a paramount issue, for the purpose of lifting a burden of apprehension from the people of Alabama, and especially from the people of a particular section of Alabama. It is meet and proper at the same time that the same clarion voice proclaim that relief, that the same Consti¬ tution that is going to bring about the fabric under which the new conditions can prevail, it will be meet and proper that at the same time, when you say to the black man “we propose to set limitations about your rights to participate in the affairs political of this country or to vote when you are ignorant and unfit to ex¬ ercise the right of suffrage,” it will be but meet and proper and common justice to say with the same august in.strument that we propose to protect your life from the hands of mob violence, and we propose to see that you will be brought into the court houses of this country and given fair and impartial trials, and that you are not taken by mobs out of the hands of sheriffs of this country and hung up to the nearest tree or the nearest telegraph pole. We say that these two things go hand in hand, and that they should be written down in this Constitution side by side. It does not answer this proposition at all to say that sheriffs are elected by the people, and that they ought not to have this additional terror to make them doubly anxious to see that their prisoners are protected and that the law is enforced. It is a fact that they are taken—that prisoners are taken from sheriffs by mobs, and it is a fact that it ought to be stopped. The Committee thinks that this is a safe and conservative measure when it says that the right of removal shall be had until the Supreme Court can pass upon the merits of the case, and it does not take the office of any Sheriff away from him unless he is found to be guilty of cowardice or connivance in these lynchings— MR. SAMFORD—Or other grave fault or neglect. MR. FITTS — Neglect of his official duty, cowardice that would not withstand the mob, connivance that permits them to take away, giving them the keys when he was pretending not to give them. We all know the habits, the ways of mobs. It is no answer to this proposition to say that the Supreme Court is crowd¬ ed and ought not to be asked to stop and hear these impeach-l ment proceedings. It don’t make any difference how crowded it is, in that important matter it ought to and certainly will rise to the new duty that is imposed upon it and make rules and regu¬ lations to hear the impeachment proceedings when they came up. The gentleman says that he is opposed to this proposition, he says that he is opposed to it because sheriffs are only a part of the executive in the sense where the arm of the executive extends into the county, he is opposed to it because- the Sheriff is elected by the county and ought not to be removed by the Supreme Court. 8g2 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I say there cannot be any reasonable complaint by any good and faithful Sheriff at a mere temporary removal until the Supreme Court can hear his defense of all his actions and official conduct I say it will be a lon^ step and a considerable stride towards the stopping of lynchings in this country and in this State, and that is a stride greatly to be desired, and almost any price is not too dear that does not invade the sacred rights of man. ^be distin¬ guished gentleman (Samford) should remember the eloquent words, almost the last words that ever came into this hall from eloquent lips that are still—from his great father—among the last wo?ds that he ever sent into the General Assembly. The very concluding words of one of the last messages that ever fell from the eloquent pen of that beloved man, was a prayer to the Genera Assembly of this State to do something along this very line And now that the Constitutional Convention proposes to nse to that high duty I say that this is a fit time and a fit pjace, in the \ery instrument itself, that is to set proper metes and bounds around this people, to give them every guarantee that no matter if your political rights are limited, your court rights and your *‘’^bt to be protected while under arrest and bemg brought to a trial and protected in the courts, shall remain inviolate, and f^at any Sheriff who allows these to be disturbed will be punished. I think that this Section as written by the Committee and as reported by t Committee should pass and go into the Constitution. MR. BURNS—Do you know of any instance in the State of Alabama where any sheriff has connived at lynching? MR. FITTS—I have not been mixed up in any mobs and don’t propose to be. MR. BURNS—But do you know of any instance? MR. FITTS—I don’t know the details of any mobs. MR. BURNS—I deny that any lynching ever took place. MR. FITTS—Your denials are very broad. MR. deGRAFFENREID—We rave already passed upon the question as to whether or not the Governor of Alabama shall be charged in this constitution with seeing that the laws of this State are faithfully executed, and we have already by an article which has been passed upon by this convention declared that it shall be the duty of the Governor to see that the laws of the State are executed. The Governor is an Executive officer. Each sheritt is an arm of the Governor and it is only through the sheriff that the Governor can see that the laws are faithful y ex¬ ecuted in each county because the sheriff represents the Ex¬ ecutive in the county where he is elected and where he per¬ form his duties. As we have charged the Governor m the Constitution with seeing that the laws are faithfully execut- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 883 tem. ed, it would seem that it would be proper m the very same Constitution to have a provision T^LutWe some authority to act, and whereby he can officer in each county to perform his duty and to faithfully execute ?he law It is a matter of history that in one of the recent ad¬ ministrations in this State, a Governor called upon a sheriff m L county that adjoins the county of Montgomery der^and^ he see to it that a prisoner was presented, ^""^Z^^CovIrnS? was ceived a reply informing him that so far as the Govern concerned he was helpless. While the Constitution requires the Governor to see that the laws are faithfully executed he was po¬ litely informed by the sheiitf that he had no power ^ ^^f your sheriff replied to him “you cannot enforce it, it is none of your business ’’ There is a section providing for the impeachment of Se Sate iuSe He is a coLty officer elected by the people ti hfs county. ^The probate judge is answerable only to the peo¬ ple S his county and yet under a constitutional provision which has been the fundamental law of the State at least since 1875 ev ery probate judge has been liable to impeachment at the hands, no^ of the people of the county who elected him, but of the Su preme Court of the State of Alabama. MR. SAMFORD—Because he is a part of the judiciary sys- MR. deGRAFFENREID-And the Sheriff is P^^^f the ex¬ ecutive branch and the same reason would apply to one that would apply to the other The same reason cUtiitinnal provision in the Constitution of 1875 that wouia uXhe the Provision if this should ripen into a constitutional Enactment. Why, Mr. President, the people of a county are not the only people who are ^^t ^thr onW acts of the sheriff of that county. They are not the on y people who are interested in the proper execution laws of the country. It was only recently that the Governor of the State was called upon—I know nothing of the merits of the case—to pass upon the question as to whether in an adjoining county the^ had been a flagrant violation of law by officers of Aat county and my recollection is that he came to the rescue of persons wL had been convicted by the ^’^Ig'^Vaw demency because they had been improperly convicted by the law Stos of the count/ We have, as I have said, a constitutional rLuirement that thi Governor of the State should see that the \lwis faithfully executed. We should not leave it to the legisla¬ ture but should fix in the fundamental law a provision by which he will be able to see to it that this ^'^Tha" it nni- an idle set of words, but that it means something, ihat it means that he shall have the power that can be enforced not Sgh Rgislative enactment, but through the fundamental law of the State. 884 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JENKINS—I remember the incident to which the g^en- tleman has alluded. It happened in Lowndes County, did it not? MR. deGRAFFENRElD—Yes, sir. MR. JENKINS—I remember the reply the Sheriff telegraph¬ ed back. The import of the telegram to the Sheriff was that he ought to have placed himself in front of the mob and shot them down to save the life of a man it was impossible for him to save. The Sheriff telegraphed back to the Governor, or made the state¬ ment, “I believe in protecting the life, liberty and property of the citizen. I have tried to do my duty. I think the mob has done wrong, but I do not propose to be shot down in the face of a mob to save the life of a man in my care when I know I cannot do it.” He used these remarkable words, “I am not fashioned after that heroic mold.” You will find there is not today a Sheriff in Ala¬ bama, if there is he is a remarkable one, that is fashioned in that heroic mold. It is not human nature. And yet we propose to come here and by constitutional law say, it matters not how many bayonets or guns stare you in the face, you must walk out there and draw your pistol and say the first man who advances is a dead man’ and then be shot down in your tracks.” I tell you all, there are some crimes so black, and heinous, that have been committed in this country of men, of which I am a representative on this floor, that there is no man who could stem the tide of in¬ dignation of wrath that has been aroused in the hearts of the peo¬ ple. MR. FITTS—May I inquire, would this section touch those conditions? Would that be cowardice or connivance? MR. JENKINS—But you leave it to the Governor to say what it is, and upon his opinion that sheriff is deprived of office and not given the presumption of innocence and what everyone, even the lowest in the land, is entitled to, a trial by jury. MR. PILLANS—Except the victim that is taken from the Sheriff? MR. JENKINS—There is no man in this Convention more opposed to mob law than I am, but I lay down this as a delib¬ erate proposition, that there is no law or constitutional enactment that this convention or any legislature can pass that will do away with it under the present conditions. There is but one way and only one, and that is, you must educate and reform the moral sense and sentiment of the people. Until that comes about, your laws are as empty as the paper upon which they are written. You must build up a public sentiment in the minds of our people that every man is entitled to trial, and when he goes to trial he must receive justice and not be allowed to escape the gallows by the technicalities of the law and the fine web of sophistry the lawyers weave around their clients. That is the proposition for CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 885 this Constitutional Convention. We should reform our judicial system and let the peojjle know that when a man has committed a heinous crime he shall be walked up to the bar and tried before a jury, and be sentencerisoner’s being taken from the jail or from tlu' Sheriff or Ids de])Ut\\” It is too broad, It^ ])Uts upon the* Sherill the necessit\' to be free from all neglect ot duly, to l)e always wnde-awake. Sup])Ose a Sheriff, not (‘xpecting a mob, ])uts a \v('ak (l('])uty in charge of the jail, on(‘ who would be strong enough for ordinary occasions, but in \ iew’ of the fad that a mob ma\’ arise, not a pro|)er man for all occasions. I he Sheri ft ])Uts him there, and everv honest and can¬ did mind, though dis];osed to shield the Sheriff, when called upon to sj)eak under oath, and say wlugher the Stieriff had neglected hi> dutw would be com])elled to say he had. Jlere is the law di¬ recting his imjxachment for that. And it puts him out of office, i he ])rovision juits too sc'x ere penalties and burden.^ u])on tlie sheriffs. 1 cannot say that I entirely agree with the amendment. It undertakes to leave the matter entirely o])en. I agree as to the evil of mob violence on ]n'isoners wdio have gone into the custody of the sheriff. They should be panoi)lied about and protected l)y all the force and pow’cr of law\ 1 agree that something should be done; but an amendment to this section of the report would be an exceedingly tedious matter to do in open Convention. There¬ fore if 1 can get a second to the motion I w ill move that both the minority re])ort and the Section as report by the Committee be recommitted. MR. JONES—Would the motion to recommit cut me off 'J'HE PRESIDENT—It would not. MR. PI LEANS—Would not the w^ord ‘"gross” before ‘"neg¬ lect” meet your objection? MR. SOLLIE—It might. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — The principles which gave birth to this section had as well be met squarely. The transcend- ant issue they present can not be evaded by objection to details, or appeals for “people’s rule.” There is a great principle—a vital principle involved. It wdll not dowm. It must be met and faced. It concerns all alike. In its enforcement civilization, religion and good government are alike promoted. Without it all languish and wither. Let us be frank with ourselves. Every time a citizen rises up and appeals for the law, some man says some negro has com- OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS mittcd an unmentionable crime, and, therefore, the sacredness of all law must be cast to the wind. People in Alabama who have not taken the trouble to keep pace with events, will be startled to be told that in the last ten years over one hundred citizens of Alabama have been taken by mobs from sheriffs and jails and murdered. Yet such is the case. Such is our bloody record. And yet over two-thirds of those peo¬ ple were not guilty of a crime which I will not mention, because of fair listeners in the gallery. Some years ago down in Butler County, a tax collector was murdered. A mob went to the jail and took two white men and and in flagrant contempt of law and the court hung them up in front of the Court House door that the judge of an Alabama court, when he went to deal out its justice, must be informed by the swinging bodies, how little people recked of law or courts. We all recognize what I might call ‘‘justifiable humanity,'’ when a criminal is caught red handed in the act, with the screams of his victim still vibrating in the air, that wise and good men may be moved to acts of lawless vengeance. But when a prisoner is once in the hands of the law, it should be taught all men that the prisoner, like the ark of the covenant, is sacred, and that the profane hand with touches either, will be palsied. Why is it of all men on earth, who are entrusted with the keeping of others, that a standard of honor must be made for of¬ ficers different from all others, and that he should take no risk. Mr. President, the minister of the gospel who would fail to see the veriest stranger, much less one of his congregation, who is stricken with a deadly disease, because of personal fear, would be outlawed and scourged for all time. We are locomotive en¬ gineers every day standing by the throttle and risking their lives to save their passengers. We have seen captains of ships stand¬ ing on the bridge, that the women and children might be saved, and going down to death in the waters. What policeman would be allowed to wear his uniform five minutes if he refused to make an arrest, at the risk of loss of life? What man would have re¬ spect for the Alabama State troops, no matter what the odds, if they allowed a mob to take a prisoner from them? Such a stand¬ ard as is claimed for sheriffs has no recognition in any laws of honor. It is a false standard of duty; if I may be pardoned for say¬ ing it, a cowardly standard of duty. Now, Mr. President, objection is made to the word “neg¬ lect.” Neglect about what? A man's life, the dignity of the law, the honor of the State. When a man is guilty of neglect at all, as to such a matter, he should be removed. Mob violence is a thing which grows by what it feeds on. Here and there search- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 889 ciLhie are cases which all men admit are ex- ties this snirit^'h'” ^ some communi- smallest thief i 'l’ and ^Jown until in some cases the Sme vLrs aV jail. Who does not remember one of ^hemTv ’" Prisoners, was larcenv ^ down in jail though the charge r ^ ‘ that day to this no officer or errand iurv or L X- who dii ?, or K declare the names of the criminals. We see lynchincs aln,o.st every week not for the one crime, bnt for any crime Some man IS suspected of burning a house, and the honor of the State and the peace of the County is invaded. A lawless mob leads the suspect out to death. aVnd so it goes on from bad to worse. In all these cases the guilty go uiiwhipt of justice. Let us not deceive ourselves. Two-thirds of the executions o prisoners by mobs are due to one of two things, either the cowardice of the sheriff-and I don’t think there have been many cases of cowardice—or to a willingness for the mob to succeed, from the false conviction that a Sheriff in fighting for them is lighting not for the law but for some worthless prisoner. In coun- ty after county, everybody but the grand jury knowns who did the deed. Case after case of this sort has happened ever brought to the bar of justice. There is no prosecution. No strong voice even condemns it. We owe it to ourselves, we owe it to our chil¬ dren. we owe it to our God. to put a stop to this base indifference to murder, and making excuse for men who will not risk any¬ thing for the preservation of human life and the honor of the State. We have laws enough. Let us put a provision in the Con¬ stitution that will execute them. That is what the Committee means. If the gentleman asks me if I am unwilling to trust the people of the County. I tell him frankly yes, because the people of the county never find out who commits these crimes. We don’t wish the mob and its friends to murder the law. Nobody knows who is in the mob when the authorities investigate it. Yet it is known to everybody else’ but the officers of the law and the grand jury. MR. OATES—Let me ask if a prisoner has not been taken from the Sheriff right in Montgomery, in broad open daylight, and shot to death by a mob and if the Governor did not offer all the reward he could offer and yet nobody was apprehended and no grand jury ever found out who did it? MR. JONES—I think there are two cases of that sort in¬ stead of one though in one case the prisoner was taken from the police. One prisoner was brought in from West Point, and while the military were forming under orders of the Circuit Judge to protect him, by some hocus pocus the mob found out before the judge, when this man would arrive within three miles of the city 890 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and they took him and hungf him before the military posses could reach him, and the police made no resistance worthy of the name. MR. FITTS—They flagged the train at a road crossing. MR. JONES—Day before yesterday I read of somebody ac¬ cused of burning a house. A mob formed, a citizen is murdered, and nobody knows or cares who did it. Every week or so, we read of something of that kind. The gentleman from Wilcox (Mr. Jenkins) makes the argu¬ ment you must not have a law to punish the Sheriff for failing to defend a prisoner after he is in the possession of the law, be¬ cause forsooth people may sometimes wish to hang a rapist. Let use build up a sentiment that when a man is in the hands of the law he is sacred, sacred from lawless violence, sacred for justice’s sake. Every citizen in Alabama is interested. All of our civil¬ ization is based on the idea that ‘‘no man can be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.” Without its en¬ forcement there can be no civilization—no government worthy of the name. Public opinion is powerful. It makes war or it makes peace. It protects the helpless when no other power can do it. Who does not remember the lone prisoner of Fortress Mon¬ roe? Bowed in the agony of suffering and defeat, but undaunted still, cruel captors immured him in a cell of a frowning fortress lashed by the seas and ironed him to insult his people and their cause. No eye looked upon him except to mock him, save that of an all-pitying God. His people were disarmed and prostrate in defeat. Not a hand could they lift to aid him. What broke his shackles? The power of public opinion of the civilized world. At another time, when General DeTrobrian led a file of sol¬ diers into the legislative halls of Louisiana and ejected the rep¬ resentatives of the people, what stayed the hand of oppression, and, with a force greater than that of any mailed hand, barred the door of the legislative halls against the soldier, again for gen¬ erations to come? It was the power of public opinion in New York and the East, which burst out quick and grander than the storm, speaking in tone millions could read—“thus far, and no further.” We ought to be willing, we ought to be anxious, to have and desire the good opinion of mankind. We are looked upon, and I will not say with how much justice, in many sections, as ut¬ terly unmindful of the one great duty of government—the sure and steadfast protection of the weak and the helpless. We are thought to be disbelievers in the sanctity of human life—if that life happens to be that of a negro. We are looked upon as tacitly consenting, if not openly approving the right of any body of men CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 891 to mete out death, without trial or evidence, if the suspect can be found, to kill him, not for rape alone, but for any offense against the laws. As Southern men, let us ask ourselves how far appear¬ ances justify the belief. Have we stopped mobs at rape? Is not the thirst of mob violence for blood as p^reat in many lesser crimes? And are not our courts open? Is justice administered bv our judges or our own juries? How many of these continued outbreaks and assaults upon officers and jails have been pun¬ ished? We know and the world knows. Does it not behoove us to pause and consider? To devise some remedy? To strike some blow for tlie sanctity of human life and the honor of our State? These mob executions are brutalizing our children, blunt¬ ing our religion, and undermining^ our civilization. Can any one in the sound of my voice, rise up and say that this is not so? We are undermining^ all nob]e ideals of duty and manhood. When we surrender to any local public opinion, which dominates in some ])laces, that a Sheriff is not bound to take any risks, even to loss of life or limb, in defense of a prisoner, we abdicate all our past and bow down and worship false and base standards of dutv. W'hv should not the Sheriff die at his post as well as the locomotive engineer, or the ])riest, or the doctor, or the soldier? (Ap])lause), We are setting a baleful example to our youn$^ sons, who are coming up around us, if we teach that when a prisoner is ^i\en to an officer, that officer is free to desert his post of duty, because there may be danger in it. It is not like Alabama or the South to tolerate such a doctrine. Let us declare our faith as.to this in our fundamental law. (Applause). I do earnestly trust that this last Article framed by this ecutive Department will not be touched in a line, but that it will go out from these halls that the law shall be executed, that we despise mob violence, and we intend that human life shall be re¬ garded as sacred, and be taken only by the law. (Applause). MR. FITTS—I want to make a motion. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Pike is recognized. MR FITTS_Will the gentleman yield, I want to make a motion to continue the session. MR SAMFORD—We have fifteen minutes yet. I desire to say so far as I know, every thought of my distinguished friend from Montgomery is of the highest nature, that him the high¬ est models of honor are selected, that his high-mindedness is not snroassed in the State, but when he says that he is not willing to ?^^uTt the administration of the laws of this land to the people of the State, he raises a standard to which I am not willing to subscribe. OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS m MR. CUNNINGHAM—He never said that. MR. SAMFORD—^The only difference between the gfentleman from Montgomery and myself is the method by which the same end may be obtained. There is a law already for the impeach¬ ment of the Sheriff. There is a law already that wherever a Sheriff in this county fails to be at his post, like the captain of a great ocean steamer, or the locomotive engineer with his hand on the throttle, as he goes down to death and destruction, that he shall be impeached and removed from office. Gentlemen on the other side of the controversy contend that the Supreme Court is the place where they ought to be tried, and away from the people who elected them, and away from the jur¬ isdiction before whom they had a right to be heard, at the Capital of the State. Where would this thing lead? I understand men have been shot down on the streets of Montgomery, shot in the back, and no indictments have ever been returned by the grand jury of Montgomery County. •f —I understand that such is the case; but •f u * should have some tribunal who would indict and if there are none in the county we should seek them el.sewhere. MR. SAMFORD—Is that an argument that the Supreme Court ought to have jurisdiction in this county and not the people of Montgomery in the enforcement and punishment of crime? Can you say that the people of Montgomery are not capable of administering the criminal laws of this State and therefore the admini^ering. of them ought to be put in the hands of the Su¬ preme Court of Alabama? You can see where it leads to. If you start with sheriffs, if you adopt the plan of the gentleman from Montgomery with sheriffs, why not go on and change the venure from different counties and allow the juries in the different coun¬ ties to try crimes in other counties, and allow the grand jury of one county to return indictments where offenses have been com- nutted in another county. MR. FOSTER—Are not chancellors and probate judges now impeached before the Supreme Court? t MR SAMFORD—Yes. but they are part of the judicial sys- L reason probably it was provided that their impeachment should take place before the Supreme Court of the State. _ MR. deGRAFFENRElD—^Are not the sheriffs part of the Executive Department? MR. SAMFORD Yes, but the Executive is not asked to im- peach him Whenever you give the Governor power to appoint the sheriff I will subscribe to the doctrine that he may be per¬ mitted to remove him, but not until then. But I do subscribe to CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 893 the doctrine that the probate judges ought to be impeached by the Supreme Court of the State, with circuit judges and chancellors it is different, they are responsible to no particular subdivision in the State. Circuit and chancery divisions are different from coun¬ ty organizations entirely. MR. FOSTER—Are not probate judges county officers? MR. SAMFORD—They are and I was remarking that I do not subscribe to the doctrine that they ought to be impeachable only by the Supreme Court. I am opposed to taking the power to administer the laws of the State out of the hands of the people of the county in which crimes or the offenses have been commit¬ ted. MR. HOWELL—Is it it not the law that the Governor can remove the Tax Assessors and Tax Collectors when cause exists for it? MR. SAMFORD—I think so, but that does not change the proposition that I am stating, that I am opposed to it. It may be the case that in other States the Supreme Court is the only court of impeachment, but it does not necessarily follow that that is right because it is so. The only difference of opinion between us in the court before which these* matters shall be tried and in order for us to adopt this section we have to say to the citizenship of this State “You are not worthy of trust in the administration of the laws of the land” and whenever you do that then you make a long step in the direction of worse things than we have ever experienced in this State; And when this convention makes such an affront to the people of the State, I fail to see how they can go back and ask them to ratify the constitution that we are now about to adopt. I do not know what the sentiment of the convention is upon it, but it is wrong in principle and I have done my duty, as I con¬ ceive it, by my State in raising my voice against it. MR. O’NEAL—I had not intended to add anything in favor of this provision after the very eloquent remarks of the disting¬ uished gentleman from Montgomery, but I cannot refrain from saying a word in reply to the gentleman from Pike. He says the adoption of this provision will be an affront to the people of Ala¬ bama. Does the gentleman believe that the people of Alabama favor lawlessness in this Commonwealth? MR. SAMFORD—Allow me, Mr. President, to set myself right with the gentleman. The people do not favor la\vlessness, nor do I, and I do not favor mob violence. I simply said, and I correct the gentleman now by saying I shall never endorse the doctrine that the people of this State are not capable and worthy to administer the criminal laws of the State. 894 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. O’NEAL—I understand the gentleman to say this, but I thought it was not his meaning, but the idea was that there was a large and influential class of office holders w'ho would oijpose the ratification of the Constitution if we adopted this provision. If there is a class of office holders in this State who are opposed to the enforcement of law and order in this Commonwealth I would let them understand now and forever that we propose in this convention to see to ir that every man who is in the custody of the law, every helpless prisoner, is protected, and that if the ratification of this constitution cannot be secured except by our pandering such sentiments as that, I would rather see the consti¬ tution go down in defeat. MR. BAREEIlvLD-—In the sixth line of this section it says “And the Governor when satisfied, after hearing the sheriff that he should be impeached, may suspend him from office for such time as he may think proper until the impeachment proceedings are finally disposed of.” The Governor then could order the sheriff suspended. MR. O’NEAL—Yes. MR. BAREFIELD—Until the Supreme Court passes on the cases and they could hold the matter up for the full term of the sheriff’s office, four or six years, no matter how inmjcent the sheriff may be. MR. O’NEAL—This section simply provides, that any sher¬ iff who, by reason of cowardice, connivance, neglect, or other grace fault of the sheriff permits a prisoner to be put to death, when the Governor is satisfied of that fact, can be suspended by the Governor from office. Does any delegate deny that a sheriff who, by reason of cowardice or neglect of duty, permits a prisoner to be put to death ought to be suspended pending trial? MR. SAMFORD—Who is to pass on that? MR. O’NEAL—The Governor can pass on it pending trial by the Supreme Court. The Governor who is the Chief Executive officer of the State. The Constitution clothes him with the duty of seeing to it that the laws are faithfully executed. What folly would it be to clothe him with that power and yet say to him you have no control over the inferior executive officers of the common¬ wealth, the inferior executive officers can permit murder in the jails of the State and yet you be powerless to enforce the law. THE PRESIDENT—If it is the pleasure of the Convention to dispose of this article this evening, it will be necessary that some motion to suspend the rules be made. The delegate from Lauderdale yielded for a motion in this regard. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 895 MR. FITTS—I move that the rules be suspended and that the Convention stay in session until the pending: section is is- posed of. Leaves of absence were given Mr. Jackson and Mr. Jones for the remainder of the afternoon. A division being called for on the motion of the delegate from Tuscaloosa. MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a point of order. There is no quorum voting. It appears there is a quorum present. MR SAMFORD—I give notice, that on the adoption of this section I will make a demand for the yeas and nays and make the point of no quorum. The motion to continue the session was cleared carried. MR O’NEAL—The statement is made by the^ntleman from Pike^ that the sheriffs are not responsible to the Chief Executive of the State in the performance of their duty. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will ask the doorkeeper to notifv members not to leave as the point of no quorum will be made and the Chair would like to retain a quorum. MR O’NEAL—lust a word and I .shall conclude. The par- ^ fViit: Convention is to remove from our suf- ZTl state, the id,= and the unworthy * ? tln^a rMirrhasable vote While that is our purpose and it is ■?„" tl‘e hcrintSesLf the State and for the good of all its c,t,- aens that rve undertake to purity and reform our suffraite by re moving th relement from our electorate, let us say to those whom "r'leprive of the elective franchise by this Constitut.on, we w.ll do it and we do it because it is for the interest of the people f State and of good government and for the PWjhy of the ballot, W we intei d to see to it that the strong arm of the law will pro- Sir within the sound of my voice. I cannot endorse the sentiment of the ' cox when he saysj. duty _oMhe ^sher.ff^to nsk^h^^ r Tate hour and I Lve the previous question upon the amend- ment. 896 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JENKINS—I clinsert m lieu thereof “election or appointment to any office in this State one year after the expiration of his term. Tooting .hat .he Gove.no. now occupies. Dissent was audibly manifested. MR. deGRAFFENREID— Allow me to explain and then you can vote upon it. 898 . OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS It is already the law that the Sheriff cannot succeed himself, but we know that under the practical operation of that law the Sheriff is always a candidate for re-election, not in his own name, but in the name of his chief deputy, and the Sheriff, if he succeeds in electing that deputy, still administers the office. There are now in the State of Alabama many men who either directly or indi¬ rectly through the election of their deputies have held office of Sheriff three or four terms, when it has been the purpose of the law-makers, as I have said, to remove from the Sheriff any temp¬ tation to exercise the duties of his office for political purposes to secure his own election. By adopting this amendment you carry into effect the pur¬ poses of the law-makers when they declared that the Sheriff shall not be his own successor. The Sheriff as we all know is the chief executive of the coun¬ ty, a man of great power. Under the common law, in England, the sheriff was Earl, the proudest of the nobility next to the Duke, ranking all other orders. He was the principal figure of his coun¬ ty, and upon him was cast the burden of the administration of the law. As the sheriff is, in his county, what the Governor is in the State, the chief executive officer, it seems to me that both should be placed on the same footing. They belong to the same depart¬ ment of the State and the duties of both are to see to the due execution of the law. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I move the previous question on the Section and all pending amendments. MR. JENKINS—I rise to a point of order and I call the at¬ tention of the Chair to Rule 26, that a motion to adjourn is always in order. MR. WILLET—I rise to a point of order that the rules were suspended. THE PRESIDENT—It was submitted to the House and the order of the House was that the Convention should continue in session until the pending Section was disposed of. If the Chair was in error in overruling the point of order on that ground, the ruling of the Chair was nevertheless proper upon the other ground stated by the gentleman from Montgomery, that the Chair had not recognized the gentleman from Wilcox and the gentleman had not the floor to make the motion to adjourn, so that whether the Chair stated correctly the reason, the result was correct. A vote being taken the main question was ordered and a further vote being taken on the amendment, the result on a di¬ vision was 43 ayes and 26 noes. MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a point of order. There is no quorum, and I demand a call of the house. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 899 MR. WILSON—I call attention to the fact that if there is no quorum this amendment is not adopted. I am opposed to the amendment cutting off the sheriffs succeeding to any other office and I make the point of order that there is no quorum voting. You have no right to bring people in and vote them. MR. OATES—The delegate may be right in opposing the amendment, but he is mistaken in one thing. The call of the House brings absent members in but it cannot vote them. The vote has to be taken over again. MR. BURNS—I rise to a point of order. An hour was set for the Convention to adjourn and how many amendments have gone out since that was done? THE PRESIDENT—I overrule the point of order. MR. O'NEILL (Jefferson)—I make the point of order that there was no quorum present when the previous question was ordered, and I now have a right to offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is overruled. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Rule 33 says, ‘‘Twenty-five delegates shall have power for absent delegates to move a call of the House; but no call of the House shall be made except on the concurrence of a majority of the delegates present. On a point of no quorum being made, the call of the cannot be ordered to this Convention cannot be ordered unless a majority of the delegates present shall vote it." The purpose is to take from one delegate the power to stop the proceedings of the Convention by demanding continued calls of the House. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I move a call of the House. There are eighty-three members in the House and a roll call will develop it. THE PRESIDENT—A call of the House is moved. Is it sustained. The call was sustained. MR. SAMFORD—I do not desire to interpose dilatory tac¬ tics. I am informed there is a quorum present and I will with¬ draw the call. I did it thinking there was no quorum, and there was not at that time. MR. WILSON—I renew the point that no quorum voted on the motion on that amendment. MR. O'NEILL—I make the point the gentleman is too late. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair thinks the gentleman made his point in time, and in the opinion of the Chair the point is well taken. 900 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR WHITE—I submit if a quorum is present, which there is. it don’t make any difference whether the quorum votes or not. MR TONES—The first business when a quorum appears is to take up basiness where we left oft when the lack of a quorum appeared. Therefore I move that we take up business at that point. MR. JENKINS—I make the point of order if it appears a quorum was not voting a motion is lost and the only way they can reach it is to reconsider it. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—In response to the point made by the gentleman from Jefferson, I insist that the Chair can know and does know that a quorum did not vote because ^e vote was taken by a rising vote and under the last clause of Rule 33 it is provided “a majority of the Convention shall be a quorum to transact business.” So I say that no business is done unless a quorum does vote. I agree with the point of the gentleman from Montgomery. I know it is ruled frequently otherwise, but the better rule seems to me to be if no quorum is voting, nothing is done. MR. deGRAFFENREID—A good many of the delegates did not vote on either side. There is a quorum present. THE PRESIDENT—If a quorum didn’t vote and that ap¬ pear upon the face of count it is competent for any gentleman to make the point of no quorum and the Chair sustains the point. Thereupon a call of the House is demanded and it has not yet appeared that there is a quorum. MR. WILLET—Can you ascertain whether there is a quo¬ rum without a call of the house? The PRESIDENT—A vote was taken on a division and there was not a quorum voting. MR. WILLET—Some delegates may not have voted on the division and can you ascertain a quorum or no quorum without a call of the house? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Is there a quorum now present? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair don’t know. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Can’t the Chair count? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair could. MR. JONES—I submit if there is no quorum voting when a quorum appears the unfinished business is taken up right where it was left off. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 901 MR. deGRAFFENREID—In order to settle whether there is a quorum I move the adoption of my amendment and on that the previous question was ordered and I demand the yeas and nays. The roll call resulted as follows: AYES Messrs. President, Ashcraft, Beddow, Blackwell, Boone, Brooks, Browne, Case, Cofer, Cunningham, deOraffenreid, Espy, Foster, Freeman, Graham, of Talladega, Totals—44. Barefield, Bartlett, Beavers, Burns, Byars, Cardon, Carnathon, Chapman, Davis, of DeKalb, Eyster, Ferguson, Fitts, Graham, of Montgomery, Totals—39. Handley, Hodges, Hood, Howell, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Kyle, McMillan (Baldwin), McMillan (Wilcox), Malone, Maxwell, Mulkey, NeSmith, Norman, O’Neal (Lauderdale), Pillans, NOES Grayson, Henderson, Jenkins, Jones, of Montgomery, Knight, Leigh, Locklin, Martin, Murphree, Oates, O’Neill (Jefferson), Pearce, Pettus, Pitts, Reynolds (Henry), Searcy, Sloan, Tayloe, Thompson, Weakley, Weatherly, White, Whiteside, Willet, Williams (Barbour), Wilson (Wash’gton). Phillips, Porter, Robinson, Rogers (Sumter), Samford, Sanders, Sanford, Smith, Morgan M., Sollie, Spears, Walker, Williams (Marengo), Wilson (Clarke), During roll call: Mr. Eyster did not vote. The President's attention was called and the delegate was requested to vote. MR. WATTS—I would vote aye, but am paired with Mr. Jones of Hale, who would vote no. MR. WILSON—I desire to give notice that on Monday I will move to reconsider the vote. 902 OFFI Cl A L F ROC F FDl «S MR. WHITE—1 move to reconsider this vote and move to lay that motion on the tal>ie. THE FRESH )FvNT_The motion to reconsider, under rule, lies over one day. MR. WHITE—'rids is a motion to table, not to reconsider. THE l^RESlDKN'r—ddie motion to reconsider is not l)efore the House until Monday. Ihit tor the rule recjuirin^ it to o\ er until Monday it would be in order. MR. deORAEFENREli)—1 nurse the ademption of the Section as amended. MR. JENKINS—Upon that I call for the yeas and navs. The call was not sustained. A vote bein^ taken on a division stood 54 yeas, 22 noes. MR. JENKINS—I rise to a point of order, that the section is lost for the want of a quorum, THE PRESIDENT—In the Oj)inion of the Chair a quorum failed to vote. MR. WHITE—I ask a call of the house. MR. MALONE—I make the point that the Chair just ascer¬ tained a quorum and nobodv has left. THE PRESIDENT—A cpiorum is present, and the Chair cannot understand wh\^ they won't vote. A verification of the vote was had and showed 56 ayes and 22 noes and the section was adopted. MR. WILSON—I move a reconsideration of the vote by which the section was adopted. MR. HOWELL—Would it l)e in order to lay that motion on the table? THE PRESIDENT—Not until Monday niorninj?. MR. BROWNE—I have an amendment to the article as re¬ ported by the Committee. MR. PILLANS—Did we not l)y our resolution resolve to stay in session until we dis])oscd of the section then under con¬ sideration, and is it not time for adjournment? MR. BROWNE The motion was until the pending^ measure which would include the whole article. Mr. Browne’s amendment was read. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 903 Amend the report of the Committee on Executive Depart¬ ment by inserting the following Section: Sec. 26. The Governor, Attorney General, Secretary of State, Auditor, and Treasurer, shall constitute a Board of Equalization, the duty of such Board to be to adjust and equalize the valuation of real and personal property for taxation among the several counties of the State and to perform such other duties pertaining to the equalization of taxable values of property among the counties as may be pre¬ scribed by law. MR. BROWNE—I consider that is a very important ordi¬ nance and desire that it will be discussed in brief upon Monday when we have all the members present. I now move that we ad¬ journ. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Will the delegate permit me to in¬ troduce a short and spicy resolution to be referred? The consent was given and the resolution was read as fol¬ lows : ‘‘Resolved, That after Tuesday next, no per diem will be al¬ lowed to the delegates to this convention who are absent, except those who are granted leaves of absence on account of sickness.'' The resolution was referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. SAMFORD—I move that the amendment offered by the delegate from Talladega be laid on the table. A vote being taken on a division, a quorum did not vote. THE PRESIDENT—There is a quorum present and I can¬ not understand why gentlemen will not vote. A second vote being taken on a division, the amendment was tabled. The convention, on motion, then adjourned. TWENTY-EIGHTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA.. Monday, June 24, 1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Howell, as follows: Oh Lord we come to thee this morning with gratitude in our hearts and praise on our lips for the good providence that has pre¬ served our lives and our health and has permitted us to meet to- 904 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS gather this morning in this hall to address ourselves to tlie work in hand. We pray thee, Oh Lord to erce|)tjon of the work before us, that we ma\ come to \\a>e conclusions that will result in the glorv and iionor oi tliv name and to the good (>f the commonwealth. Forgi\e all our >\n> and lead us and direct tis in the ways of righteousness and peace, (dve us tlie highest appreciation of that which is riglit and an al)horence for that which is wrong. Eless the hon.es lU' these. Tliv servants, pre¬ serve the lives and health of tlieir lo'ced one> and may all things result for the good of the peo])le and the honor of God. And wfien our work is done here below, may we .-o live that the Master will say at last well done good and faithful servant and finallv })e gatlo ered to the home of Christ, our Lord. Amen. i he roll call showed the presence of ninety-two delegates. The following leaves of absence were granted : For Today—Messrs. Hood, (meer (Perry), Duke. For today and tomorrow—Mr. AI. Al. Studdard. Smith, Air. Lomax, Air. ver. For Saturday—Air. Glo Indefinite—Mr. A¥ilHams (Elmore). For tomorrow—Mr. Jones (Montgomery). On Saturday afternoon Mr. Lomax paired with me on an amendment which I offered to the report oi the Committee on the Executive Department. In Sunday^ paper l e pair was not mentioned. I desire to sav that no aye and no vote r?ave Sr«°e"r from of the Delegate from Marengo, paired with him on a“of aS t to show that he would vote for the (XtS, tieman from Hale if he had been pr((ent. ' ‘ port o, Saturday's proceedmg.e w^iefrapS^rejIriSrs'JJa; tS-' The communication was read as follows: I am requested bv the Officiil i lowing: statement concernin^r the report of the fol- m The Advertiser of Sunday^morning- ^ ^ Saturday s proceedings CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 905 Throug^h a mistake in the composing* room of The Advertiser, the two roll calls that were had on Saturday were transposed, the effect of which was to make many members appear to have voted exactly contrary to the way they did in fact vote. There were also erroneous arrang^ements of the speeches of some of the members at the afternoon session, remarks made by one member, being at- tril)uted to another. It was apparent to any one reading the re- ])ort that an error of this description had been committed. The proprietors of The Advertiser, themselves discovering the error, after the 1,000 copies had been printed and the type distrib¬ uted, on last evening reset Saturday’s proceedings correctly, ac¬ cording to the copy that had been furnished by the stenographer on Saturday and reprinted the 1,000 copies, and, the official report now on the desks of members is correct, I believe, with the ex¬ ception that on page 3 last half of column four, Mr. Sanford’s (Montgomery) speech is attributed to Mr. Samford (Pike). MR. OATES—I see that I am reported as voting on the amendment of the delegate from Hale on the ])roposition against the sheriff when in fact I voted against that amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state for information of the gentleman that the official journal shows that he voted against the amendment. MR. BURNS—In the last column on the third page of the printed report I am put down as denying that any lynchings have taken place. I said I denied that any lynchings had taken place with the connivance of the sheriff. The report of the Committee on Journal that the Journal for the twenty-seventh day was found correct and on motion was adopted. MR. WILSON (Washington)—On Saturday I made a motion to reconsider the vote by which Section 30 of the report of the Committee on Executive Department was adopted. I now wish to address the Convention on that motion. In the afternoon ses¬ sion I offered an amendment to the first part of that section which struck out the clause forbidding the Sheriffs from succeeding themselves, later on I voted against the report of the impeach¬ ment proposition of the Sheriff. Mr. Chairman, I wish to be un¬ derstood that it is to neither of these propositions that I shall ad¬ dress myself or make a motion to reconsider this morning, but to the proposition that the Sheriff cannot succeed himself or any body else within a year after the expiration of his term of office. I do not concede that either of the other propositions are cor¬ rect, but as a majority of this convention have clearly expressed ed their views that both of the first proposition are correct, I do not care to take up the time of the Convention in the further dis¬ cussion of either. Mr. President, the amendment offered by the 906 OFFICIAL PROCF,EDINGS gentleman from Hale was adopted with barely a cjuorum jwes- ent, the Chair had to almost corral the members i)resent to get a quorum to vote, and with this I am told that several members have changed their mind, and in the hurry of the vote anel in the hurry to get through, did not give the matter due consideration, and for this reason I will ask the Convention to reconsider the vote by which the amendment was adopted. Now, Mr. President, this amendment says that the Sheriff shall not hold office for 12 months after the expiration of his term. \\ hy is siicli a pro\ ision necessary ? MR. BOONE—Which is equivalent to four years. MR. WILSON—I thank you for the suggestion. It is in substance that he shall not succeed himself or anybody else or hold any office for four years after the expiration of his term. Why' this discrimination against the Sheriff? Are the Sheriffs of Alabama such a hard set of customers that they must be bound hand and foot, gagged and labeled unfit for further public serv ice for four y'ears? It has been argued on this floor that the Sheriff is an executive officer. So he is, and he has always been so. It is said that he is such a powerful and formidable factor in county- affairs that it would be unsafe to trust him with the administration of office of Sheriff or that of any other office for four years after the expiration of his term. .According to the argument of the chairman of the committee, it has been so for “many, many years,” and for that reason—which this convention has adopted as good that the Sheriff should not succed himself, that tiie pres¬ ent arrangement should not be interfered with. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Will the gentleman permit an interruption ? MR. WILSON—Certainly. MR. JONES—The Committee on Executive Department only made the Sheriff ineligible to succeed himself—did not offer the amendment about which the gentleman is now speaking—per¬ sonally, I voted against it. MR. MHLSON—I understand that. The purpose of moving to reconsider is to offer an amendment placing the report as brought in by the Committee on Executive Department as it was, but I merely said, if the gentleman’s argument would apply in one case it would apply to another and it should be left right w'here it came from. Now, Mr. President, I have not found the Sheriffs with whom I have associated such horrible, terrible fellows that they were unfit for public trust for more than one term. I can see no reason in branding them any more than any other county officer, and if it be the fact, which I do not concede, and which I state now is not so, that they are the most powerful and influen¬ tial county officers in the state,—then I would remind the gentle- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 907 men that insist on 1)randino them, that they mi^e^ht as well a little slow for fear they rni^ht encounter a little of this formid¬ able opposition in adoption of the Constitution. I hoj^e the Con¬ vention will reconsider this vote and the pur])ose of askinj::^ this is to offer an amendment to place the provision ])ack as reported by the Committee on Executive Department. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I rise for the purpose of replying to the gentleman who has just preceded me, not so much for the ])urpose of requesting this Convention not to reconsider this vote, because I think that everything that is done in this Convention should 1)e thoroughly considered and that no ill-advised action in any matter should be had. MR. WATTS—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order, MR. WATTS—If I understand the motion of the gentleman from Washington, it is to reconsider the vote by which a certain amendment was passed. Since then the section was passed. Can he reconsider the amendment without first reconsidering the vote by which the section was adopted. MR. deGRAFFENREID—No sir. MR. WATTS—He said the section had been passed and he desired reconsideration of the amendment rather than the vote by which the section was passed. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair understood the motion to reconsider the whole section. The Chair understood that the gen¬ tleman explained that his object in reconsidering the vote by which the section was adopted was for the purpose of offering an amend¬ ment which would reinstate the section as originally reported by the committee. MR. deGRAFFENREID—As I was going on to say, I do not think that any ill advised action should be had by this con¬ vention in any matter. We are adopting a Constitution which will curb the powers of the Legislative Department, and for that reason we should be careful, but I desire to say to this convention that we are not here now for the purpose of legislating in the in¬ terest of office holders, we are here to legislate in the interest of all of the people of the State of Alabama. Gentlemen seem to misconceive the purpose for which offices were created. They were not created by the people for the purpose of placing money in the pockets of the individual, they were not created for the pur¬ pose of elevating one individual above another, but they were cre¬ ated for the benefit of the people themselves. MR. MORRISETTE—Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? 908 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. deGRAFFENRElD— Yes sir. MR. MORRISETTE—Were the^^ created for the purpose of placing one gentleman below another? MR. deGRAFFENRElD— No sir. and I will reply to that. Whenever you have it understood that any office is so limited, that the powers which are conferred upon the office holder can¬ not be prostituted to his own ends, but that the\ must be used in the interest of the people, you dignify that office. \\ henever you place an office beyond the ain))ition of the mere office seeker you di^nifv that office, and you make the incumbent of that of¬ fice a better office holder. Now, l\Ir. President, I want to trace the history of this provision in the fundamental laAV of the State. In 1819 when our ancestors met to adopt a constitution for llie State, there was one office at which they struck, and that office was the office of the sheriii of the counties in the State. I hey said in that constitution that no sheriff should be Cjualified to succeed himself, either as sheriff or as deputy for three vears after the expiration of his term. In 1861 when the people ajc^ain met in Convention for the purpose of chan.ofino* their fundamental laws, they provided that the sheriff should not be his own suc¬ cessor, and that he should not even have the privilege of holding a deputy’s office. In 1875 when they met a^ain for the same purpose, they placed the provision in the constitution that he should not be his own successor, and for what reason? Will the gentleman from Washington tell me why? MR. WILSON—Yes sir. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—Why? MR. WILSON—I was not living at that time, but I have been told by people because the sheriffs handled the administra¬ tion of estates in Alabama, but there is no reason now, the cause being removed the prohibition ought to he removed. MR. deGRAFFENRElD — The convention knows, it is a matter of history, that it was adopted for the purpose of taking from the sheriff the temptation that might exist to use the au¬ thority that was vested in him by the ])eople for his own political advancement. Well gentlemen if that was the purpose, and we all know that it was the purpose of the people, that purpose can¬ not be carried into effect as long as you leave it in the power of the sheriff to be a candidate, not for his own office, but for an}^ office in the gift of the people in his county. Isn’t the purpose of the constitution rnakers in 1875 nullified if the sheriff is permit¬ ted to use his office, not for the purpose of securing his election to the office of sheriff, but for the purpose of succeeding the tax collector or succeeding the tax assessor, of succeeding the probate judge, of succeeding any officer in the gift of the people? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 909 MR. PRESIDENT—I believe I am member of the Commit¬ tee on ‘‘Harmonics” as the distinguished gentleman from Mont¬ gomery (Ex“Governor Jones) has seen fit to call us, and it seems to me that when we get through with this instrument we should have one that harmonizes in every particular. I know that Sher¬ iffs, as a rule, have been men of good character, and men of first- class ability, that the office has been well administered, but the same is true with reference to his chief, the Governor of the State of Alabama. You have by your action in this Convention said that the Governor of Alabama, at the expiration of his term, shall be unfit to hold the office of a Justice of the Peace, or of a Notary Public in the State of Alabama. You dignify him by doing so. Here is his chief in the county. Why should you except the Gov¬ ernor and not except the other executive officers in the State? It has been said on this floor that the English-speaking race is the government-making race of the world. If there is one quality of that race that predominates over every other quality, it is the watchfulness with which the members of that race guard the power of their Chief Executive of the State, or of the Nation. It was that watchfulness which caused that historic meeting so fre¬ quently referred to by Fourth of July orators at the Runnymede. It was that same sentiment that ripened into the Declaration and later into the Petition of Right, it was that same principle that led to the adoption of the Declaration of Independence, and later in order that it might be fully understood that the people reserved their power, except where granted to Congress and to the Presi¬ dent in the adoption of the Constitution of the United States. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—The committee in formulat¬ ing this last section saw fit to discuss the subject very clearly, and very forcibly and at some length, and in formulating it we conceived that we had done that which was for the best interest of the State. Now my friend from Hale (Mr. deGraffenreid) in discussing this subject says that this idea to discuss the subject is looking towards the best interest of the whole State. I beg to say to him that this was the object, and the whole object of the committee when it placed Section 30 where it was placed. Now the argument has been made that it is not to the interest of the people to create office or to have office for the purpose of put¬ ting money into pocket of the holder of that office. His argument would appear to go along the lines by which the Governor, the Lieutenant-Governor, the Commissioner of Agriculture and In¬ dustries and the other State officers are kept from succeeding themselves in their own office, or running for some other office, or seeking appointment for some particular office during their term and 12 months thereafter. My friend forgets that while the Sheriff is an executive officer, while he is a Constitutional officer, while he is placed among the highest officers of the State, yet as a matter of fact, he is a county officer who has to deal entirely with his people at home. There is the reaching of the whole peo- 910 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS pie. There is the reaching^ of a particular people in a particular county and my experience has been, and I believe that it has been the experience of all members of this convention, that a Sheriff, when he reaches office, reaches and holds it for the interest of the money that is in it. Very few men use the arguments that were used in the tabling of the amendment as offered by striking out this last paragraph of the section. Very few men desire to place themselves as a target to be shot at by a mob, to lie belabored by their fellow countrymen or fellow county men unless it be for the money that is in it, and I say now that it is for the money that is in that office that a Sheriff takes it and not for the high honor that may come to the office of Governor, or Attorney General or Secretary of State. Then if it is for the money that is in the office, I submit to this Convention that the Sheriff would do his duty were he even to succeed himself, in my opinion, and certainly would not neglect that duty in order to seek some in¬ ferior office in his county, such as Assessor, or Tax Collector. Now why was the provision left in that he should not succeed himself, because from time immemorial in this State it has been a Constitutional provision, and I submit to this Convention that when all of us—started to say “permitted’' our names to go be¬ fore the people for the higli position of delegate to this Conven¬ tion, but I will say “placed” our names before the people, we said to them that we proposed to leave the fundamental law just as near as possible where it is. Now, Mr. President, all that the committee asks of this Convention is to leave that fundamental law as near as possible where you find it, make as few changes in it as possible, spare it whenever you can and spare to the people at home this one provision that in my opinion will, if passed as desired to be amended by my friend from Hale, will stir up more strife and row than any other by arraying against this Consti¬ tution, when we attempt to pass it, sixty-six of as good and true men as the State of Alabama has in it. I know the sheriffs of the State, and I know that they do their duty. The Committee saw fit to leave this mattei where it was, not to strike out as his own successor, not to say for four years because that is practically what the amendment means, that for four years you shall not hold office, that you shall leave the pursuits of your home and come to your county seat where you must live, there labor for your county and incidentally for your pocket, for four years, and at the end of that time be swamped; no other occupation can you seek, but to go back to the mercantile pursuits or farm, or possibly to his law office or doctor’s shop. Now leave this matter like it is, don’t go touching these old matters, don’t give us any more that when we go back to the people and ask them to ratify this Con¬ stitution we will encounter opposition, which can easily and prop¬ erly be avoided. My friend takes up the history of this office and says that in 1819 the Constitution made him ineligible to any office for three years afterward. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 911 MR. cleGRAFFENREID—No sir, I did not say that. MR. williams—T o succeed himself? MR. deGRAFFENRElD — Yes for three years, either as deputy or as sheriff. MR. WILLIAMS—Practically as it was in 1785, and in 1861, following the Constitution of 1819 made him ineligible to sue- ceed himself or to be deputy of one who might succeed him, and it appears to me to be a wise provision to leave that as it was m 1861. Touching the history of one of the counties in Southwest Alabama where the sheriff, a good man and good sheriff has suc¬ ceeded himself practically tor the past twelve or fourteen years. Why not leave it as it was in 1861. The Committee would have left it as it was then, we were attempting to leave this matter just as we told the people we would leave it. I dare say there are few members of this Convention, who, when making the race for this Constitutional Convention were not approached in per¬ son by the sheriff of his county and asked that question. If my friend wants to make the thing harmonious, so it may be musical, so it may be nice and pleasing let him place the clerk, assessor, collector, all the deputy officers in the same shape, but the ob¬ ject of the Committee w'as to place the prime offices in the State on a non-succession basis, and to leave the county officers as they are. I submit to this Convention that that is^ harmony, leaves the State officers in one class and the county officers in an¬ other class, and we ask you to reconsider this amendment and strike out the amendment as passed in an unwise hour, in an un- thoughted heat of last Saturday afternoon’s session, when we all wanted to get away, without due consideration and due thought. MR. BOONE—I move the previous question. MR. REESE—I ask the gentleman to postpone his motion— THE PRESIDENT —Will the gentleman withdraw? Does the gentleman decline to withdraw the motion? MR. BOONE—Yes sir. THE PRESIDENT —The question is, .shall the main ques¬ tion be put. Upon a vote the main question was ordered. THE PRESIDENT—The motion is to reconsider the vote by which this convention adopted Section 30. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—For the purpose of getting at that particular amendment as I understand. THE PRESIDENT—That was the purpose that the gentle¬ man stated. 912 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HENDERSON—I would like to have the section as amended read. • . u- MR. WHITE-May I it'u the gentleman is bound by the reaso ^ ^ matter^ After we aimply for tha purpose of "he pu pose of Scon- reconsider the section, will it be open tor rne yu y sidering anything else? MR. WILSON (Washington)— I would like j benefit of the gentleman that I am willing to be bound by do not want to reconsider anything else. MR. WHITE—But I want to know what the Chair will hold on that. THE PRESIDENT— The Chair will hold that it the Con¬ vent™ reconsiders the vote whereby the section was adopted, that it will be open to amendment by the Conventio . MR. WHITE—All of it. MR TONES (Montgomery) — I submit while the Chair is eminently correct in that ruling, that we can ,f “"f"f ing when we vote for the reconsideration that it is for that pur pose. Of course if gentlemen are going to amend, a great many of us who favor reconsideration would vote no. MR. WHITE—I submit that would have to be by general consent, because any member could move to reconsider any other proposition that had been adopted into that section. MR SAM FORD—I do not know but that having offered an amendment, I might be considered as desiring to reconsideration. I simply desire to say to this Convention that I have no intention of going further myself, but I do not speak for anybody else in the Convention. MR. REESE—I make the point of order that the previous question has been ordered, and that debate is out of order. MR. WHITE—This is no debate, as I understand it, Mr. President, but simply a parliamentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—Yes, the chair indicated to the gen¬ tleman from Jefferson the opinion of chair, and quite a nutnber of members who proposed amendments on Saturday have indi¬ cated they have no desire to renew those amendments this morn¬ ing, but are willing to confine the consideration of the question to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale, Mr. deGraffenreid. ' MR. WHITE—^Well that will not bind other members who want to go into old matters. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 913 THE PRESIDENT—That is true. MR. WILSON (Washington) — But all the members that have proposed amendments have bound themselves not to raise the questions again. The gentleman from Pike and myself are the only members that I remember who proposed amendments. It seems to me this question should be thoroughly understood that we propose to go into nothing except the amendment-offered by the gentleman from Hale. MR. BOONE—Now, Mr. President, I call for the question. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I rise for the purpose of intro¬ ducing a resolution, and ask unanimous consent that it be read now, so that the Convention may pass upon it. It relates to this very question. Objection was made. MR. WHITE—I move now to table the motion to reconsider. MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a point of order. As I under¬ stand it the previous question has been ordered. Do I understand that a motion to table can be made after the previous question has been ordered? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair thinks that the motion to table has precedence of a motion for the previous question, pro¬ vided it is made before the previous question is ordered. But under the rules, after the previous question is ordered nothing seems to be in order except the previous question itself. 1 ca the gentleman’s attention to rule twenty-six, under which a mo¬ tion to adjourn, which has the precedence of a motion to table, will not be entertained: “A motion to adjourn shaU always be m order, even in the absence of a quorum, except when on the call for the previous question, the main question shall have been or¬ dered.” The main question here having been ordered, m the opinion of the Chair a motion to table will not be in order. ihe question is shall the vote be reconsidered. MR. SAMFORD—On that I call for the ayes and noes. The call was sustained. MR. HENDERSON—I would like to hear the section as amended and passed read. The section was read. Upon a call of the roll the vote resulted as follows: AYES Messrs. President, Ashcraft, Barefield, Beavers, Boone, Burnett, Burns, Byars, Cardon, 914 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Carmichael, of Coffee, Carnathon, Chapman, Davis, of DeKalb, Davis, of Etowah, Fitts, Foshee, Foster, Freeman, Gilmore, Glover, Graham, of Montgomery^ Grant, Grayson, Haley, Henderson, Hinson, Howell, Jenkins, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Kyle, Leigh, Locklin, Long, of Butler, Lowe, of Lawrence, MacDonald, McMillan, of Baldwin, McMillan (Wilcox), Martin, Miller (Marengo), Miller (Wilcox), Moody, Morrisette, Murphree, Norman, Norwood, Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Pettus, Reese, Robinson, Rogers (Sumter), Samford, Sanders, Sanford, Searcy, Sentell, Smith, Mac. A., Sollie, Tayloe, Thompson, Vaughan, Waddell, Walker, Weatherly, Williams (Marengo), Wilson (Clarke), Wilson (Washington) TOTAL—69. NOES Beddow, Malone, Case, Mulkey, deGraffenreid, NeSmith, Espy, Oates, Howze, Phillips, Jones, of Bibb, Pitts, Kirk, Porter, Kirkland, Reynolds, Sloan, Spears, Watts, Weakley, White, Whiteside, Willet, of Henry, Williams (Barbour)„ TOTAL—24. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Almon, Altman, Banks, Bartlett, Bethune, Blackwell, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Carmichael, of Colbert, Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Cornwall, Craig, Cunningham, Dent, Duke, Eley, Eyster, Ferguson, Fletcher, Graham, of Talladega, Greer, of Calhoun, Greer, of Perry, Handley, Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Hodges, Hood, Inge, Jackson, Jones, of Hale, King, Ledbetter, Lomax, Long, of Walker, Lowe, of Jefferson, Maxwell, Alerrill, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 915 O'Neal (Lauderdale), O’Neill, of Jefferson, Opp, O’Rear, ]*almer, Parker (Cullman), Pillans, Proctor, Renfro, Reynolds (Chilton), Rogers (Lowndes), Selheimer, Smith (Mobile), Smith, Morgan M., Sorrell, Spragins, Stewart, Studdard, Williams (Elmore), Winn. MR. WILSON (Wa'>^ mgton)—1 now move to lay the amend¬ ment offered hy the i^entleman from Hale on the table. ^Hllv PRESIDENT—The question will be on the motion of the gentleman from Washing-ton to reconsider the vote, where¬ by the amendment was adopted. MR. SAMh'ORD—1 understood this vote was on the recon¬ sideration of the whole section. THE PRESIDENT—The vote just taken was to reconsider the vote whereby the section was adopted. Now the question is to reconsider the vote whereby the amendment was adopted. MR. WHITE—Which amendment was that, Mr. President? THE PRESIDENT^—The amendment offered by the gentle¬ man from Hale, Mr. deGraffenreid. MR. WHITE—As I understood the reading of the section as amended, there was an amendment adopted at a later time than the amendment of the delegate from Hale. THE PRESIDENT—No, the gentleman is mistaken. MR. WHITE—I am not, from the reading of the section by the secretary. THE PRESIDENT—It may have been read out of its order. THE CLERK—They were read out of order. MR, WHITE—I make the point of order that the journal shows different. THE PRESIDENT—The last amendment adopted was the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale, and the motion now is to reconsider the vote whereby the Convention adopted that amendment. MR, BOONE—That vote was in favor of a reconsideration of the section. Now, Mr. President, I move you to strike out from the section the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale, and on that I move the previous question. MR. WHITE—I make the point of order that the motion is not in order. 916 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The Chair would rule that the motion of the g-entleman from Mobile is not in order for the reason there is a question pending^, and that is the motion of the gentleman from Washington to reconsider the vote whereby the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale was adopted. MR. SAMFORD—On that I call for the previous question. MR. WHITE—I make the point of order that we have to accept the section and amendments and the adoption of those amendments as shown by the Journal, and that we cannot remem¬ ber contrary to the Journal. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is correct. The Journal will control, unless the Journal is corrected, but it is in the power of the Convention to correct the Journal if they see fit. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I rise to a point of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT — But the Journal sustains the recol¬ lection of the Chair, that the amendment offered by the gentle¬ man from Hale was the last offered. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I rise to a question of inquiry to save time. As I understand it the whole section was adopted by the House on Saturday and has now been reconsidered and is be¬ fore the House. Will not the gentleman from Mobile move as a substitute for the pending question, that so much of the section as injected by virtue of my amendment should be stricken therefrom. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is inclined to think, after the convention has adopted this amendment upon a direct vote, that the proper mode of reaching it, instead of making another amend¬ ment by striking out, would be to move to reconsider the action whereby the amendment to the section was adopted. MR, BOONE—I call for the previous question. Upon a vote the main question was ordered. MR. WILSON (Washington)—I desire to offer a substitute. At the suggestion of members around me, I move to lay the amendment offered by the gentleman from Hale on the table. MR. REESE—I make the point of order that the gentleman rose for the purpose of offering a substitute and then made a mo¬ tion to lay the amendment on the table. MR. WILSON (Washington) — The substitute had not reached the secretary, and had not been read. MR. REESE—The gentleman stated that he rose for the pur¬ pose of offering a substitute and he should not be recognized at the time that he made the motion to table. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 917 M_R-_ WILSON (Washington) — I had the floor, and it seems to be It IS immaterial that I rose to do one thin^ and did another. THE PRESIDENT — The Chair is unable to control the mental operations of delegates while on the floor. The motion to table the amendment was carried upon a viva voce vote, MR. deGRAFFENREID—I give notice that on tomorrow, after calling the roll, I shall move to take from the table the amendment which has just been laid upon the table. MR. WILSON—I rise to a point of inquiry. Is not that in effect re-considering more than once? The president—T he chair would hold that a motion to take from the table would be in order. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to inquire where the original section now slands. THE PRESIDENT—It is before the house for consideration. MR. JONES—With the other amendments. THE PRESIDENT — With the other amendments which were incorporated into it, yes. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — Now I move the previous question on the section as reported, with the amendments there¬ to which were adopted. Upon a vote being taken, the main question was ordered. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I want to give notice that I voted for the adoption of that section as amended, and on tomorrow morning I will move a reconsideration. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I would like to have the sec¬ tion read with the gentleman’s amendment stricken out, as it now stands for passage. The section was re^d. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I yielded the floor simply to permit that. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair understands the gentleman from Montgomery has the floor. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — I move the adoption of the section then as amended. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman has the floor for the purpose of closing the debate, if he desires to conclude it. 918 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JC9NES (Montgomery)—I do not desire to conclude it at all. Another reading of the section as amended was called for, and the section read, fix')!! a xote being taken, the section a's amended was ado])ted. ilR. JONES (Montgomery) — 1 ask |)ennl>sion of the Con¬ vention to turn back to Section 12, for the |)uri)(jse of correcting an erroneous amendment. I will read the section, or just a part of it. The section as printed left out the words— l4<]eSII)ENd'—d'he Chair will state to the gentleman that the further consideration of this report is not in order at this time. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — P>ut I ask unanimous con>ent Mr. [Resident. It is easier to do it now. W e will have to con¬ sider what I want to bring up some other time. It is just to cor¬ rect an error, and one of my own errors at that, and I know the convention wall not object to a man correcting his own errors. AIR. W ILSON (Clarks)—-I have no objection whatever, and do not intend to interpose any, but I think we ought to proceed in order, and I call for the regular order to which w e stand com¬ mitted. MR. FOSTER—Have we adopted the article as a whole? THE PRESIDENF—It is not up for consideration at this time, but wall come up under the regular order. d (Montgomery)—I appeal to my friend to with- raw his call. It wdl save trouble— I (Clarke)—I withdraw the call for the regu lar order then. AIR. JONES Well, on reflection I wall withdraw' my request. On the call of the standing Legislative Department submitted A report from the Committee Mr. President: committees, the Committee on the following re[)ort; on Legislative Department: provisions have heretofore be- .onsed to the legislative Department of the Constitution, and was ^^iven^^^;2T- committees of this Convention confus orin Legislation, which led to some Sat sTh^ec? tn reference of ordinances upon mittee on T po-i Committees, and caused the Com- Jecd^n with S ,1 Department to fully consider and draft a . ction, with numerous sub-divisions, to report to the Convention CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 919 for adoption, and whereas, the Committee on Local Legislation has made- its report not embracing a number of matters which this Committee maturely considered and desires shall be adopted. Now. in pursuance to an understanding and agreement with the Chairman of that Committee, your Committee on the L-egis- lative Department instruct,s me to report and recommend for adoption the following additional restrictions upon the power of the legislature to enact local, special or private laws to come in after the words “public officers” in subdivision 26 of Section 1 of the Article already reported by said Committee, to wit: 27. Exem])tion of property from taxation or from levy or sale. 28. Exempting any person from jury, road, or other civil duty. 29. Laying out, opening, altering, or making roads or high- wa3’s. 30. Providing for the management or support of any com¬ mon or private school, incorporating the same or granting such school any privileges. 31. Granting any land owned by or under control of the State to any person or corporation. 32. Remitting fines, penalties or forfeitures. 33 Providing for the conduct of elections or designating places of voting, or changing the boundaries of wards, precincts, or districts, except on the organization of new counties. 34. Restoring the right to vote to persons convicted of in¬ famous crimes or involving moral turpitude. 35. Refunding money legally paid into the State Treasury. Your Committee do not concur in Section 5 of said Article as constitution. Respectfully submitted, Wm. C. Oates, Chairman. Reoort from Committee on Legislative Department on Local LerSon supplementary, etc., to report of Comm.ttee on Local Legislftion to be considered in connection therewith. TTTP PRESIDENT—The report will he on the table, is it the ™tlL ®s desie that the report should be printed? MR OATES—Yes, together with the endorsement on the back to b?insidered Lged.er with the report already made by the Committee on Local Legislation. 920 OFFICIAL PROCEEDIX(;S THE PRESIDENT—Rule forty-seven provides for the prints iii^' of articles re])orte(L hut not the reports. MR. OATES—That is a part of an article already reported. According to ag-reenient, it simply adds additional sub-divisions, which the Committee on Lei^isiative Department propose shall he incorporated into the other. THE PRESIDENT—The point the Chair wanted to call the gentleman’s attention to was that the rule does not require the printing of the report of the committee, hut does reciuire the printing- of the Article, and it would call for a motion if tlie g^^mtle- man desires the report to he printed. MR. OATlCS—I move that the report he i)rinte(i, with the article. It is very short. The motion was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The question now is the special order, the report of the Committee on the Executive Department. MR. JONI5S (jMontg-omer\')—In section twelve. Mr. Presi¬ dent. by my own fault in the report, in writing it out. the words “except in cases of impeachment” were put after the words “in cases of felony,” in the sixth line, when it ought to be just after the w'ord pardon in the third line, and I therefore offer this amendment, which I will ask the Secretary to read. The amendment was read. Ariiend Section 12 by adding after the word “pardon” in the third line of the printed ordinance, the following words, to-wit: ‘except in cases of impeachment.” And also by striking out the words “except m cases of impeachment” in the sixth line of the printed ordinance, after the words “in cases of felony.” MR. JONES—I move the adoption of this amendment, Mr. J^resident. I ask the unanimous consent to consider it. I had done so, vvhen I rose before, and withdraw the request. I will •state that It is just to correct a clerical misprint, so to speak. It IS not in the right place as put in the ordinance, as amended, and the effect of the amendment is to strike it out at the wrong place, and insert it at the right place. question in the mind of the Chair P^’o^edure to be taken to reach the difficulty which the gentleman seems to desire to reach o,. r the uniform u" the Legislature of Alabama for thirty years, in cases of this kind, that it be remedied by unanimous consent without reconsidering. CONSTITL-TIOXAL C( )XVF,NTI( )N, 1901 921 THE PRl%SinENT—The Chair is o1)li}^e(l to the {gentleman from Cleburne. MR. HDAVELE—That has been the custom for thirty years. THlii ]*RI’ySlDENT—'I'hc j>entlenian frcjin Montfjonicry asks unanimous consent tliat this amendment may be made. MR. W'lLSCN (Clarke)—T do not understand the chair to rule that an ainemlinent is not in order to the article? THb) RRESIDleNT—No, this was an amendment directed to a particular section. It is a motion to amend a section, and by unanimous consent the Chair is of the oi)inion that it may be done. MR. JleXKlNS—I rise to the imint of order, that you cannot amen the delegate from Tuscaloosa is ex¬ ceptional, and qualifies that section which prohibits the increas¬ ing of the salaries of the Executive officers during their terms, and allows the first legislature after the ratification of the Con¬ stitution to make a provision for increasing the salary of the Gov- erno relected at the same time they are. MR. MALONE—I dislike exceedingly to differ with gen¬ tlemen who have so much ability to argue their case, but as I un¬ derstand it, the Governor coming in with that legislature would be interested to the extent of eight thousand dollars, to have that legislature pass that particular bill, and while I might favor a salary of five thousand dollars to the Governor I am opposed to putting him in a position to get such direct benefit from the action of the legislature over which he has the powers that have beesn demonstrated here. I do not think it is right and I think the Gen¬ eral Assembly would be free to act as they see it. I am opposed to the Governor being directly interested to such a great extent in any law to be passed. MR. PETTUS—I regret also to have to take issue with the distinguished gentlemen who are advocating this amendment, but it appears to me, after we have adopted the section to which the delegate from Montgomery has alluded, which provides in ex¬ press terms that the General Assembly shall not increase the salary of any officers during their term of office, it would be un¬ wise to make an exception in the case of the Governor or of any other of these officers. This Section 7 of the Committee’s report is taken almost verbatim from the Constitution of 1875 and it seems to me in engrafting that section into this instrument we have recognized the wisdom of the principle that inducements should not be held out to any of the officers enumerated in this section to bring influence to bear upon the legislature for the pur¬ pose of having salaries increased. I am not opposed to an increase in the Governor’s salary, if it comes through the proper forum, and at the proper time, and in the proper manner, but it seems to me it is unwise to put in the Constitution at the end of the Ar¬ ticle a proviso or an exception which in effect declares that the Article we have already adopted was unwise, or that there should be an exception made to it in any instance. Another reason why I think that this section proposed by the delegate from Tuscaloosa should not be adopted at this time is, that by resolution this matter has been left to the General As¬ sembly. This Convention of the people assembled here, has de¬ clared that it is their opinion that the legislature should increase 928 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the Governor’s salary. It seems to me that is far enoufih to g^o alon”' this line. If we go further and put this section in, it makes it almost compulsory upon the next legislature to increase tie Governor’s salary, and it seems to me it will be sufficient for the best interests of the State for the increase passed by the legisla¬ ture to be passed under the general terms of the Constitution and not to have any retroactive effect, and not to take effect during the term of office of the next Governor to be elected under the Con¬ stitution. MR. lENKINS—As a member of this Constitutional Con¬ vention, I want to say candidly that I am tired of this c|uestion of the Governor’s salary. It seems to me that we were sent here but for one purpose and that purpose is to raise the Governor s salaix. Everv other day the question is brought up and this Convention is consuming time on these matters when we ought to be getting down to the important proposition for which we were actually sent here, namely, the reform of the suffrage. I am opposed to the whole proposition of raising the Gov¬ ernor’s salary. I believe if you raise the Governor’s salary you ought to give the Supreme Court Judges some higher pav. they are hard worked people and are breaking down under the work thev have, and if anybody deserves a raise it is the>^ i Avould vote ten times sooner to increase their salary than to increase the Governor but I would vote against that proposition here today because we are not here to raise salaries and get up these outside discussions and consume time. The whole world don t depend on this. Everv question along this line precipitates discussion and I say we should get to the proposition that we came here for, and we ought to vote down every proposition tending m any other direction. I am unalterably opposed to this resolution, and I hope the Convention will vote it down and that we may get on some¬ thing else besides raising salaries. MR. KNOX — It wdll be impossible for this Convention to take up the consideration of the report of the Committee on Suf¬ frage until that Committee makes its report. The object of those who favor some increase in the Governor’s salary, is simply to shape the Constitution in such a w'ay as that the benefit of this in¬ crease w'ill be enjoyed during this generation. It is not to be sup¬ posed that those who sincerely favor some relief to the Governor want to postpone it until the next generation, or want to put it off so many years. The circumstances are peculiar in this case, because it is proposed to increase the term of office of the next Governor from tw-o to four years and so the benefit of this in¬ crease would be postponed for five or six years. Therefore, it seems to me as the gentleman from Montgomery suggests, that this case is an exception and that this proviso ought to be adopt¬ ed. I therefore move the previous question upon the adoption of this section. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 929 MR. COBB—Will the jjentlemah yield to me. I have an amendment which I think will be satisfactory, if he will withdraw that motion. The delegate from Calhoun yielded, and the amendment was read as follows: “Add at the proper place the words hf the Gen¬ eral Assembly shall so determine.’ ” MR. COBB—I have not the proposition before me, but those words can be inserted at the proper place. My object is this: Inasmuch as we have referred it to the General Assembly to de¬ termine whether there shall be an increase of salary, my amend¬ ment proposes that it shall also be referred to the General As¬ sembly as to when that raise shall take effect. If the next Gen¬ eral Assembly, immediately after the adoption of this Constitu¬ tion, sees proper to raise the salary of the Governor, this also gives them the power to say whether it shall take immediate ef¬ fect or not, so that they would not be hampered by the consti4 tutional provision in making that addition to their act. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—Suppose the next General As¬ sembly should raise the salary of the Governor, what is there in the Constitution to prohibit the raise to the next Governor? MR. COBB—That provision which says that the governor during his term of office shall not have his salary raised. My understanding of the purpose of this amendment is to avoid that provision in the Constitution which says that the salary of the Governor shall not be increased during the time of the then in¬ cumbent. As the gentleman from Calhoun has well remarked, the sit¬ uation is peculiar. The next Governor of Alabama will have been elected before the General Assembly convenes, and come into office just shortly afterwards. His term of office will have com¬ menced before the General Assembly can pass this act. Hence, if we leave it as it stands it would no have the effect to raise the salary of the Governor who succeeds the present incumbent. My proposition is to leave the whole matter to the General Assembly and not to hamper them in what they propose to do by the con¬ stitutional provision to which I have referred. MR. BULGER—I understand by your proposition you au¬ thorize the Legislature in 1906 to increase the salary of the Gov¬ ernor of that year. If the next Legislature should wish to raise the salary of the Governor, will your proposition authorize it to be done? MR. COBB—My proposition is simply this, to give power to the General Assembly to raise the salary, if they see fit to do it, of the then incoming Governor, and not postpone it for four years, but it does not apply to any succeeding Governor. This 930 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS inhibition does not apply to any Governor except the one to itn- mediately succeed this Governor. I move the previous question. MR HEFLIN (Chambers)—I doti’t think the gentleman understood the question of the delegate from Tallapoosa if he did, I did not catch his answer. Suppose the next Legislature after the ratification of this Constitution, should fail to raise the salary of this Governor, does this amendment reach far enough to apply to the next Governor elected. MR. COBB—I am willing to restrict it to the Governor next elected. I move the previous question on the whole pending measure. MR. SOLLIE—There are two things before the Convention, can the Convention vote on two questions at once? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—There is only an amend¬ ment here and amendment to that. A vote being taken the main question was ordered and a fur¬ ther vote being taken the amendment of the delegate from Macon was adopted. On the question of the adoption of the Section as amended a call for the ayes and noes was sustained and the roll call resulted as follows; AYES Messrs. President, Banks, Barefield, Beavers, Beddow, Bethune, Boone, Brooks, Browne, Burnett, Cobb, Davis, of Etowah, Dent, deGraffenreid, Duke, Eyster, Espy, Ferguson, Fitts, Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Hinson, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jackson, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Hale, Jones, of Montgomery Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Knight, Kyle, Leigh, Locklin, McMillan (Baldwin), McMillan, of Wilcox, Martin, Merrill, Morrisette, Murphree, Norman, Norwood, Oates, O’Neill (Jefferson), Palmer, Parker, of Cullman, Pitts, Proctor, Reese, Robinson, Samford, , Sanders, Sanford, '"earcy. Smith, of Mobile, Tayloe, Thompson, Vaughan, Waddell, Watts, Weakley, Willet, Williams, of Marengo, Wilson, of Clarke, Wilson, of Washington, TOTAL—72. CONSTITUTIONAL C0NVP:NTI0N, I9CI 931 NOES Ashcraft, C'jrayson, Parker, of Elmore, Bartlett, Handley, Pearce, Blackwell, ffenderson. Pettus, Bulger, J enkins, Idiillips, Burns, Kirkland, Porter, Byars, Lowe, of Lawrence, Reynolds (Henry), Car (ion. MacDonald, Rogers, of Sumter, Carmichael, of Colbert, Malone, Sloan, Carnathon, Milker, of Marengo, Smith, Mac. A., Case, Moody, Sollie, Chapman, Mulkey, Spears, Davis, of DeKalb, NeSmith, Weatherly, Foshee, Opp, Williams, of Barbour, Freeman, O’Rear, Whiteside, Glover, TOTAL 43. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Almon, Hodges, Reynolds, of Chilton, Altman, Hood, Rogers, of Lowndes, Carmichael, of Coffee , King, Selheimer, Cofer, Ledbetter, Sentell, Coleman, of Greene, Lomax, Smith, Morgan M., Coleman, of Walker, Long, of Butler, Sorrell, Cornwall, Long, of Walker, Spragins, Craig, Lowe, of Jefferson, Stewart, Cunningham, Maxwell, Studdard, Eley, Miller, of Wilcox, Walker, Fletcher, O’Neal, of Lauderdale, White, Foster, Pillans, Williams, of Elmore, Greer, of Perry, Renfro, Winn. Harrison, So the Section as amended was adopted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move that the ordinance be put on its final reading: and passage. MR. BLACKWELL—I offer an amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—For what purpose? MR. BLACKWELL—It don’t interfere with any Section in the Article. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Can you tell me what it is? MR. BLACKWELL—I am perfectly willing to show it to you. The amendment was read as follows: OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS • f i. c +Vi<» Fvpcutivc Oonirnittcc by Sec^?1 'ZX tion or otherwise m gkction at which members KJ cfrerTAssembly are elected, and at said election the ^nalUied eTe'cSrsty dfrec^ vote shall fill snch vacancy or vacances. sice ‘h'; floor for that purpose. The amendment was read as follows; Substitute offered for the amendment of the delejjate from Morgan. “Sec 31 The Court of County Commissioners shall have au¬ thority when any vacancy occurs in any county office to appoint some qualified ekctor of such county to perform the duties of said oflice until the next general election by the peop e, when the people voting at such election shall vote for some to hold said office and who shall hold said office during expired term and until his successor is duly elected and qualified. MR. GRANT—I move to lay that on the table. MR BLACKWELL — The amendment I offered Provides when a vacancy occurs in a county office the Governor sh^' ^1 that vacancy temporarily and at the next general election at members of the Legislature are to be elected that people sh have the right by direct vote of the people to fill that ^ amendment of the delegate from Hale bate fudge, and County Commissioners shall fill this office tem¬ porarily rather than the Governor. This is in harmony with the action we have heretofore taken. It looks to the rptoratmn o power to the people, where our government originally located it. MR. HARRISON—What would be the good of your Section, as these people as these people are elected for four years. MR. BLACKWELL—As a matter of fact Probate Judges are elected for six years and so are Circuit Clerks. As a matter of fact however, the appointments will only be for two years, can¬ not be’for longer than two years, whereas, now it may be for four or six years. My object is to restore to the people as much power as it is possible to give them to elect their own officers and to de¬ cide who shall speak for them as officers. It seems to me there can be no objection on the part of any man to saying that the, people themselves shall have a right at the general election for representatives to fill an office that has been temporarily filled by the appointment of the Governor. That is a curtailing of the Governor’s power. We know, as a matter of fact, from the state¬ ments of gentlemen here who have occupied the office of Gov- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 933 ernor, that the Governor appoints a thousand men to office every year, according^ to the statements made. The result is, whether it is desired or not, a mighty machine is built up by the appoint¬ ment of the Governor to these terms. These thousand men a year make 4,000 during the term of the Governor and that is sixty men to a county that the Governor appoints and 91 per cent, of those are the advocates of things that the Governor may want even if a year elapses between the time he goes out of office and he is again eligible. This gives the people the power just as soon as it is possible to give it to them to fill these places. The objection to the amendment of the delegate from Hale is that he transfers the power to make these appointments to the commissioners courts and probate judges. The Governor is entirely removed from all local influences and he is not entirely dependent on the county for re-election as the probate judges and commissioners courts are and I would think he would be less likely to be affected by influences that will warp his judgment than the commissioners and probate judges, freer from selfish interests, and, therefore, I hope the amendment I offer will be adopted, giving the right to temporarily appoint until the people elect. MR. JACKSON—If this were left to the probate judges, and to the commissioners, would it not be more in the hands of the people than if left to the Governor. MR. BLACKWELL—I think not. I think as a matter of fact the probate judges and the commissioners are elected by one county and that county alone and if political influence were brought to bear upon them in that county to make the appoint¬ ment they might be more influenced to make certain appointments than the Governor could be, who is not elected by one county alone. Therefore, I think the Governor is the best repository for this power. MR. SAMFORD—I don’t see any necessity for adding this section. I think the Convention has taken up entirely too much time on this amendment, and I move to lay the amendment on the table. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I will ask you to withdraw that motion for me a second. MR. SAMFORD—I will, if you will renew it. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I will yield the floor to you for that purpose. The object of my amendment is simply to bring as close to the people of the State as possible the filling of the offices. This is a government of the people. 934 OFFICIAL PROCE^EDINOS MR BEDDOW—Under yonr plan suppose a vacancy should occur in the office of Circuit Court Jud^e or Solicitor. MR. cleGRAFFENREID — Circuit Court Judges and So- Heitors are not count^^ officers. 1 hivS applies on > to count\ o ficers. MR. BEDDOW—I did not understand it. MR. deGRAFFENREID— As I was ^oin^' to say, the very argument the gentleman makes and the very concession in his amendment that the Governor should not fill for the entire iin- expired term because of the fact that the people who are interest¬ ed are the people who should fill that unexpired term, is an argu¬ ment to this Convention m favor of the amendment which has been offered by me as a substitute. The law has already placed in the hands of the Court oi County Commissioners the power to fill the vacancies in the case ot the Treasurer. Section 1427 of the Code of Alabama provides that vacancies in the office of county treasurer are filled by appointment of the Court of County Commissioners. MR. SAMFORD — Is there anythincf in this Constitution which would prohibit the Legislature from making these other county officers appointed by the Court of County Commissioners? MR. deGRAFFENREID—None in the world. MR. SAMFORD—Then would it not be unwise for the Con¬ vention to be putting in any clauses about that? MR. deGRAFFENREID — I don’t think it would be im¬ proper for this Convention to limit the power of the Legislature in that regard, and say that the people who stood nearest to these officers should have the appointing power instead of the Gover¬ nor. The very proposition that the Convention has proceeded upon that the Governor should not be his own successor has grown out of the proposition that the Governor can use his office for his own ends or for the ends of his friends and as the people them¬ selves have the power to elect the county officers, it seems it would be getting nearer to the people if we put this power in the Court of County Commissioners rather than the Governor. Something was said this morning about the fact that on Sat¬ urday afternoon members didn’t have time to consider an impor¬ tant question. If there is any merit in the amendment offered by me or in the amendment offered by the gentleman for which mine is a substitute time and discussion and consideration will show it, and if the gentleman will permit me in order that this Convention may have time to consider it, we have not a full body here this morning, I move that the consideration of this matter be laid over until tomorrow. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 935 MR. DUKE—I move to lay that motion on the table. A vote being- taken the motion was tabled. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I move that we table the sub¬ stitute offered by the gentleman from Hale. A vote being taken the subject was table. MR. SAMFORD—I move that we lay on the table the amend¬ ment proposed by the gentleman from Morgan. The motion was carried on a division by a vote of sixty-six ayes and twenty-eight noes. MR. SAMFORD—I move the adoption of the entire Article and upon that I call for the previous question. MR. BURNS—I have the consent of the distinguished mem¬ ber of the Executive Committee to offer an amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery) — I hope the gentleman will withdraw the call for the previous question and allow this amend¬ ment to be offered. The motion for the previous question was withdrawn and the amendment of the delegate from Dallas was read as follows: Amend the entire Article by adding Section 31 as follows: In case any sheriff or any member of his posse be killed or per¬ manently disabled while protecting a prisoner in his charge, the General Assembly shall provide for the maintenance of those de¬ pendent upon those who are killed or disabled. MR. BURNS—The amendment speaks for itself. We have an ordinance requiring a sheriff to lay down his life to defend a prisoner and if he or any of his posse lays down their lives, his family ought to be provided for. A vote being taken, a division was called for. Before the announcement of the vote— MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I desire to change my vote, for the purpose of moving a reconsideration. I vote no. By a vote of fifty ayes and fifty noes the amendment was lost. MR. SAMFORD—Now I move that the article be put upon its third reading, and upon that I call for the previous question. MR. JONES—Mr. President, if it is admissible, I would like to change my vote again. I simply changed it for the purpose of reconsideration. MR. WILSON (Washington)—I call for a verification of the vote. 936 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. SAMFORD — The request for verification comes tQo late. I have been recognized and I have made a motion. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that after sub¬ sequent business has intervened, that it is too late to move for a verification. MR. BURNS—I thought we always had a right to demand a verification of the vote, if there is one had. I noticed several delegates’ votes that were not counted. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If the house will permit me, I suggest that we take up this matter and reconsider it now. I move to reconsider it. We can do it by unanimous consent, and can get rid of it in twenty-five minutes. There were expressions of dissent. THE PRESIDENT—In answer to the gentleman from Dal¬ las, the Chair is of opinion that any delegate has a right to ask for a verification of the vote, if asked for in time, but after thd result of the vote is announced, and the house has proceeded to other business, and other business is pending it is too late to call for a verification. What is the motion of the gentleman from Pike? MR. SAMFORD—I move the ordinance be put upon its third reading. MR. HOWELL—Will the gentleman give me one word? MR. SAMFORD—No sir. MR. HOWELL—You will get in a tangle if you don’t mind; that document ought to be engrossed before it goes to a third reading. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I wish to state that the ma¬ jority of the committee, in the present condition of this ordinance, do not desire it to be put upon a third reading. The gentleman, of course, has the right to make the motion, but he does not make it as the representative of the committee. MR. REESE—I move that consideration of the motion be postponed until tomorrow. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman moves that the motion of the gentleman from Pike that the bill be ordered to a third reading be postponed—until what time? MR. REESE—Immediately after the reading of the Journal. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 937 The motion to postpone consideration was carried. MR. HOWELL — I move that that article be ordered en¬ grossed. THE PRESIDENT—Further consideration of the article has been postponed until tomorrow. Mr. Jones and Mr. deGraffenreid replied in the negative. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to inquire when the motion to reconsider the vote by which the amendment offered by the gentleman from Dallas and which was laid on the table, will be in order under our rules. THE PRESIDENT—It is in order now, and will go over for consideration until tomorrow after the reading of the Journal. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—Could not the rules be sus¬ pended, so that it could be considered now? THE PRESIDENT—The rules could be suspended, but the house has postponed further consideration of this whole matter until tomorrow after the reading of the Journal. MR. FOSTER—I ask leave to offer a resolution. The resolution was read as follows: Resolved that beginning with today, the afternoon sessions of this Convention shall be from 4 o’clock p.m. until 6 o’clock p.m. MR. FOSTER—I move a suspension of the rules, that the resolution may be put upon its immediate passage. MR. SAMFORD—I will state several committee meetings are fixed for shortly after 5 o’clock. MR. REESE—I move to lay the resolution on the table. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Tuscaloosa has the floor. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Will you allow me to state a fact which comes from the newspaper men doing the work? They state they it will be impossible to do the work if the Convention determines to have later sessions. MR. FOSTER—I withdraw the resolution then, Mr. Presi¬ dent. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman desire that it be referred to the Committee on Rules? MR. FOSTER—^Yes, let it go to the committee. THE PRESIDENT—The next regular order will be the re¬ port of the Committee on Taxation. Consideration of the report 938 OFFICIA L PR OC K K DI N( * S of the Committee on Taxation was made a special order immedi^ ately after the consideration of the report of the Committee on Executive Department. MR. WEAKLEY—I ask unanimous consent to submit a re¬ port from the Committee on Municipal Corporations. There was no objection. MR. WEAKLEY—Before making this re])ort I desire to say that the Committee on Municipal Corporations reported two se])- arate sections of the article, consideration of which, at the su,< 4 ^- gestion of the Convention, was |)ost])oned until the coin[)letefl article was reported by the committee, d'he committee have now reported the complete article, embracing: the two sections already reported to the Convention, and before substituting^ this complete report we ask that the sections heretofore rev)orted be recommitted to the committee. We ask unanimous consent that this be done. There bein^ no objection, the sections were ordered recom¬ mitted to the committee. MR. BULGER—I ask leave to introduce a resolution. Objection was made. MR. WADDELL—I call for the regular order. The report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations wa^ thereupon read as follows: Report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations: Mr. President—The Committee on Municipal Corporations instruct me to make the following report: .u consideration of all the ordinances sulimitted to theni they herewith report the attached Article which they recom¬ mend shall be adopted by this Convention as Article - of the new Constitution under the caption of “Municipal Corporations.” turned” to this Committee are herewith re- Respectfully submitted, John FC Weakley, Chairman. ARTICLE _. Municipal Corporations. shall^re^rbjict tATslIl ts in like manner as natural persons. shluiT'^^ privilege of ) out shall make just compensation CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 939 for property taken, injured or destroyed by the construction or enlargements of its works, highways or improvements, which compensation shall be paid before such taking, injury or destruction. The General Assembly is hereby prohibited from depriving any person of all appeal from any pre¬ liminary assessment of damages against any such municipal corporations made by viewers or otherwise; and the amount of such damages in all cases of appeal shall on demand of either party be determined by a jury according to law. Sec. 3. The General Assembly shall have power to establish, alter, enlarge or diminish the boundaries of any city, town or village in this State, but notice of such intended change shall be given by publication in some newspaper published in the village, town or city to be affected for thirty days prior to the meeting of the General Assembly, if no newspaper is published in said city, town or village then said notice shall be given by posting copy thereof at three public places in said city, town or village, and said notice shall be spread upon the Journal of the House in which the bill proposing such change is introduced. Sec. 4. No city, town or village shall be authorized or permitted to grant any franchise or privilege or make any contract in reference thereto for a term exceeding twenty years, nor shall any city, town or village grant any rights of way over or right to use any street or public way or part thereof except to the person or corporation offering the highest sum there¬ fore or the highest per centage of gross annual receipts to be derived from the business so using the right of way or street or public place. No such privilege shall be granted until the applicant therefor shall have given no¬ tice by publication for thirty days in some newspaper published in the city, town or village of his intention to ask for such franchise and the date upon which such application shall be made, and the person, firm, association or corporation to whom such franchise is granted shall be liable for any dam¬ ages inflicted upon the property of abutting proprietors. Sec. 5. No street railway, gas, water, steam or hot water heating, tele¬ phone, telegraph, electric light or power company within a city, town or village shall be permitted or authorized to construct its tracks or mains or erect its poles, posts or other apparatus or string its wire upon the same, along, over, under or across the streets, avenues, alleys or public grounds of such city, town or village without the consent of the proper municipal authorities of such city, town or village being first had and obtained. Sec. 6. The General Assembly shall not enact any law which will permit a person, firm, corporation or association of any character to pay a privilege license or other tax to the State of Alabama, and relieve him or it from the payment of all other privilege and license taxes in the State. Sec. 7. No county, city, town, village, district or other political sub-» division of a county shall have authority or be authorized by the General Assembly after the ratification of this Constitution to issue bonds, unless such issue of bonds shall have first been approved by majority vote by bal¬ lot of the qualified voters of such county, city, town, village, district or other political sub-division of a county voting upon such proposition. In 940 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS determining the result of any election held for this purpose, no vote shall be counted as an affirmative vote, which does not show on its face that such vote was cast in approval of such issue of bonds. This section shall not apply to the renewal, refunding or reissue of bonds lawfully issued, nor prevent the issuance of bonds in cases where the same have been au¬ thorized by laws enacted prior to the ratification of this Constitution, nor shall this section apply to obligations incurred or bonds to be issued to pro¬ cure means to pay for the property abutting said improve-sanitary or storm water sewers, the cost of which is to be assessed against the prop¬ erty abutting said improvements or drained by such sanitary or storm water sewers. Sec. 8. That no city, town or village shall hereafter become indebted for any purpose or in any manner to an amount which including existing indebtedness shall exceed 7 per centum of the assessed valuation of the real and personal property within said city, town or village subject to taxation as shown by the last preceding assessment for State and County purposes, provided, however, that in determining the limitation of the power of such city, town or village to incur indebtedness there shall not be included the following class of indebtedness, to wit: (a) Notes, certificates of indebtedness or revenue bonds issued in an¬ ticipation of the collection of taxes, unless the same be not paid within two years from the date of such issue and all such notes, certificates of indebt¬ edness, and revenue bonds shall be provided for, and made payable from the taxes levied for the year in which they are issued, and shall never ex¬ ceed the amount of such taxes. (b) Bonds issued for the purpose of purchasing or otherwise pro¬ viding for a supply of water or for the construction or installation of sanitary sewers, or for the extension of either of the same. (c) Obligations incurred and bonds issued to procure means to pay for street or sidewalk improvements or storm water sewers, the cost of which is to be assessed against the property abutting or drained by such sewers. (d) Debts created for the preservation of the public health. (e) Debts existing on the 6th day of December, 1875, or any obligation issued to renew or refund the same. Sec. 9. No city, town or village whose present indebtedness exceeds the limitations herein imposed shall be allowed to become indebted in any further amount until such indebtedness shall be reduced within such limit; provided, however, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any munici¬ pality from issuing bonds in renewal or for the refunding of obligations already existing. Sec. 10. The General Assembly shall provide by general laws for the organization and classification of cities, towns and villages; the number of such classes shall not exceed four, and the powers of such class shall be defined by general laws so that all municipal corporations of the same class shall possess the same powers and be subject to the same restrictions. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 941 The General Assembly shall assign the cities, towns and villages of the State to the class to which they respectively belong and change as¬ signments made as populations of such cities, towns and villages increase or decrease, and in the absence of other satisfactory information as to their population, the General Assembly shall be governed by the last preceding Federal census, provided, however, that any city, town or village in Ala¬ bama may in the year 1905, and every ten years thereafter cause a census of all its inhabitants to be taken, and the General Assembly may change the classification of such city, town or village according to the result of such census. Any city having a population of more than 20,000 inhabitants may frame a charter for its own government, not in conflict with this Constitu¬ tion, whenever the Mayor authorized by a majority vote of the legislative body of such city shall have made application to the Judge of the Circuit Court for the appointment of the Board' to be composed of nine qualified electors who shall have been for at least five years residents of such city. If the Judge of the Circuit Court is a non-resident of the county in which said city is located, then such application may be made to the Judge of any State Court of Record of General Common Law Jurisdiction, residing in such county, and the said application and the appointments made thereon shall be entered of record by the Clerk of such court. Said Board shall within ninety days after such appointment return to the chief magistrate of such city the draft of such charter signed by a majority of said board; within thirty days thereafter, such proposed charter shall be submitted to the qualified voters of such city at a special election to be called by the Mayor, if a majority of such qualified voters voting thereat shall ratify the same, it shall be at the end of thirty days thereafter become the charter of such city, and supersede any existing charter or amendments thereto, and all special acts of the General Assembly relating to the corporate organization or government of such city, other than laws securing and enforcing the payment of the debts of such city. A duplicate certificate shall be made setting forth the charter proposed, and its ratification which shall be signed by the chief magistrate of such city, and be authenticated by its corporate seal; one of such certificates shall be deposited in the office of the Secretary of State, and the other shall be deposited among the archives of such city and all courts shall take judicial notice of such charter. Such charter so adopted may be amended at intervals of not less than four years by proposals therefor^ submitted by the Legislative authority of the city to the qualified voters therefor, at a general or special election held at least thirty days after the publication of such proposals in two newspapers of said city, and ratified by a majority of the qualified voters voting thereat. In any such charter or amendments thereto any alternative article or proposition may be pre¬ sented for the choice of the voters, and may be voted on separately with¬ out prejudice to the others. Sec. 11. No city, town, village of other municipal corporation other than provided for in this article shall levy or collect a higher rate of taxa- 942 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINCiS tion in one years on the property situated therein than one-half of 1 per centum of the value of such property as assessed for State taxation during the preceding year, provided, that for the purpose of paying debts exists ing on the 6th day of December, 1875, and the interest thereon a tax of 1 per centum may be levied and collected, to be applied exclusively to the payment of such indebtedness, and provided, further that this Section shall not apply to the city of Mobile, which city may from and after the ratifi¬ cation of this Constitution levy a tax not to exceed the rate of three- fourths of 1 per centum, to pay the expenses of the city government, and may also levy a tax not to exceed three-fourths of 1 per centum to pay the debt existing the 6th day of December, 1875, with the interest thereon or any renewal of such debt, and provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the cities of Birmingham and Huntsville, which cities may levy and collect a tax not to exceed one-half of 1 per centum in addition to the tax of one-half of 1 per centum as hereinabove allowed to be levied and collected, such special tax to be applied exclusively to the payment of interest on the bonds of said cities of Birmingham and Huntsville as here¬ tofore issued in pursuance of law, and for a sinking fund to pay off said bonds at the maturity thereof. And provided, further, that this Section shall not apply to the cities of Troy, Attalla, Gadsden, Bessemer, Woodlawn and Florence, which cities may from and after the ratification of this Constitution levy and collect an additional tax not exceeding one-half of one per centum per annum, but this additional tax shall not be levied unless authorized by a majority vote of the qualified electors voting at a special election held for the pur¬ pose of ascertaining whether or not said tax shall be levied. MINORITY REPORT The undersigned, a member of the Committee on Municipal Corporations does not concur Vvith the majority of the committee in the report submitted and therefore moves to strike out the tenth Section of the report, and respectfully offers the following substitute in lieu thereof: The General Assembly shall have authority to incorporate cities, towns and villages by a general law which shall grant to all municipalities the same powers, rights and privileges and shall not discriminate between municipalities in the powers, rights and privileges granted, on account of population, situation, condition, the pursuits of the people, or for any reason whatever. The Gen¬ eral Assembly shall grant to no municipality of community the right to establish or amend its own charter, but all municipal charters shall be granted or amended by special laws formed un¬ der a general law equally applicable to all communities. Provided, that no charter or amendment thereof shall be valid until it shall be accepted or ratified by a majority of the qualified electors re¬ siding within the limits of such municipality, and voting at an election held for that purpose. J. W. A. Sanford. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 943 THE PRESIDENT—The report of the Committee on Mu¬ nicipal Corporations and the ordinance reported by it, will lie up¬ on the table, together with the minority report. MR. WADDELL—I move that we do now adjourn. The president — The Chair will inquire whether the gentleman wishes the report of the Committee to be printed with the ordinance reported? The rules require the printing of the ordinances, but not the reports. MR. WEAKLEY—I ask that the report of the Committee be printed. MR. SAMFORD—I ask if that carries the minority report with it? To which there were expressions of assent. THE PRESIDENT—It is moved that the report of the Com¬ mittee, and the minority report be printed, with the accompany¬ ing ordinance. And the motion was carried. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion prevailed and the Convention adjourned until 3 p. m. AFTERNOON SESSION The Convention met pursuant to adjournment and a roll call disclosed the presence of ninety-five delegates. MR. SANFORD—I ask leave to introduce an ordinance. Unanimous consent was given. MR. O’NEILL (Jefferson)—Have I the right to introduce an ordinance at this time? THE PRESIDENT—No ordinance can be introduced at this time as a matter of right, but only by common consent. The resolution introduced by the delegate from Montgomery was read as follows : Ordinance No, 396, by Mr. J. W. A. Sanford: An ordinance to prohibit the General Assembly from au¬ thorizing lotteries, gift enterprises or pool selling on sports or games of any kind of description. 5H4 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That the General Assembly shall have no power to au¬ thorize lotteries or gift enterprises, and shall enact laws prohib¬ iting the sale of lottery or gift enterprise tickets; pool selling on horse racing, prize-fighting, and on all sports and games ot ariy description, wherever such horse races, prize-fights and sports and games may occur. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. MR. O’NEILL (Jefferson)—I desire to ask unanimous con¬ sent to send up a short ordinance. MR. CARNATHON—I object. MR. BURNS—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman objecting is not in his seat. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. The clerk will read the resolution. MR. WADDELL—I objected. THE PRESIDENT — The Chair failed to hear the gentle¬ man his voice is so mild and soft. The resolution was read as follows: Ordinance No. 397, by Mr. O’Neill of Jefferson: Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled that— The legislature may provide that at the general election im¬ mediately preceding the expiration of a term of a United States Senator from this State, the electors may by ballot, express their preference for some person for the office of United States Sen¬ ator. The votes case for such candidates shall be canvassed and returned in the same manner as for the State officers. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Mr. Henderson, in the rear of the hall, desired to be recorded as present. MR. REESE—I make the point of order there is a rule pro¬ viding for the manner in which gentlemen can have their presence noted. THE PRESIDENT—The rule is that gentlemen wanting to be recorded as present can have that done by notifying the Clerk. Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Macdonald for this afternoon. THE PRESIDENT — The order of business this afternoon will be the consideration of the report of the Committee on Taxa¬ tion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 945 MR. BROWNE—Before goings into the consideration by sec¬ tions of the Article as reported by the committee, I desire to brief¬ ly state for information of the convention the amendments pro¬ posed by the committee. In Section 1 the only amendment pro¬ posed is that ‘'no tax shall be assessed upon any debt for rent or hire of real or personal property while owned by the landlord or hirer— MR. WADDELL—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state his point of order. MR. W ADDELL—The point of order is that the considera- t!on of this Article must be taken up section by section. That is the order and the gentleman is reading a report made by that committee with which we have nothing to do. MR. OATES — I rise to a point of order. The universal parliamentary law in all leg^islative bodies is that the chairman of the committee who is reporting' anything is considered to have the right in the introduction to explain the whole matter to the body, which I presume the delegate from Talladega is doing, and when you come to consider, of course it is to be read section by section—I do not understand that it is to be done now. MR. WADDELL—I insist that this report of the committee was read; it has already been read, and that courtesy has already been shown, but he is re-reading what has already been read. MR. BROWNE—I move to amend the first section of the Article as reported by the committee by adding thereto every other section as reported by the committee, and upon that I de¬ sire to be heard. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will proceed. MR. BROWNE—Section 1, as amended by the committee— the amendment as proposed by the committee to Section 1—pro¬ vides that no tax shall be assessed upon any debt for rent or hire of real or personal property while owned by the landlord or hirer, during the current year of such rental or hire, and when such real or personal property is assessed at its full value. That amendment was introduced to meet a recent decision of the Su¬ preme Court, wherein they have held that a rent note or any other contract for rent was taxable during the current year in the hands of the landlord, notwithstanding the property for which it was given was assessed at its full value. The committee conceived that to be double taxation in its worst form, and, therefore, pro¬ vided that amendment. There is no amendment to Section 2. Section 3 has been so amended as to provide that the Governor may negotiate temporary loans never to exceed three hundred thousand dollars, whereas heretofore that loan was limited to 946 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS one hundred thousand dollars. A further amendment has been proposed to that section providing; for the refunding of the Statens bonded indebtedness. As the section stands in the present Con- stitution, there is a provision against the State’s creating any in¬ debtedness, but that it should not apply to funding the existing indebtedness of the State. That indebtedness has already been funded, and this proviso is changed so that the section shall not apply to the refunding of the present bonded indebtedness of the State. Section 4 has been amended by limiting the rate of taxa¬ tion for State purposes to 65-l(X)ths of one per centum, instead of 3-4 of one per centum. Here I desire to say that there were several ordinances introduced and referred to the Committee on Taxation looking to the lowering of the State rate of taxation. Some of those ordinances put the State rate—limited it to 55, some to 60, some to 62 1-2 and one to 65. The committee, after a most thorough and careful examination into the finances of the State, and after a long conference with Judge Cook of the Audit¬ or’s office, determined to recommend the limit of 65-lOOths of one per cent, and I desire to be allowed the privilege to incorporate, without making an oral statement, the figures in my remarks for publication in the stenographic report, a statement showing why and how this limit can be safely placed upon State taxation. Un¬ less objection is made, I will not read these figures, but will ask unanimous consent that they go into the stenographic report as part of my remarks. MR. FOSTER (Tuscaloosa)—I object. The facts ought to be known, I would like for the figures to be read. The clerk then read the statement as follows: Statement No. 1: Estimate of Auditor’s Office of receipts and disbursements for fiscal years ending September 30, 1901, made October 1, 1900: Total estimated receipts _$2,547,500.00 Total receipts will be _ 2,812,811.11 Excess of receipts over estimate _$ 265,311.11 Estimated disbursements _$2,526,970.00 Disbursements will be ___ 2,754,043.09 Excess of disbursements over estimate ___ 227,073.09 Excess of actual receipts over actual disbursements_ 58,768.02 The above receipts and disbursements are arrived at as fol¬ lows : 1901. June 18, amount cash receipts to date _$2,612,311.11 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 947 Kstiiiiatcd receipts to Septeinl^er 30, 1901 - - 200,500.00 (Estimated at about the same rate of increase over receipts for same period of last year as has been the receipts to June 18. 1901. over the receipts prior to June 1. EXX).) $2,812,811.11 1901. June 18. by disbursements to date . -- $2,313,823.09 Estimated disbursements to September 30, 1901 - 440,220.00 $2,754,043.09 E.xcess of receipts over disbursements - ... - — 58,768.02 1900. Oct. 1, amount of ca.sh balance in Treasury ..$ 620,767.68 1901. Oct. 1, cash in Treasury, (estimated) -- $ 679,555.70 The estimated cash balance for October 1, 1901, is made up as follows: Cash balance on October 1, 1900 ----$ 620,767.68 Amount excess of receipts over disbursements for fiscal year ending Sepl. 30, 1901 --58,768.02 $ 679,555.70 Statement No. 2: Estimate of net gain to the Treasury for fiscal year ending September 30. 1902, over fiscal year ending October 1, 1901: Cash in Treasury Oct. 1, 1901, in excess of balance of Oct. 1, 1900, (in round numbers) --- $ 59,000.00 Amount paid on the deficit during fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 1901 —------$ . 82,000.00 Amount of extraordinary appropriation for present fiscal year; Refunding licenses paid under invalid law --$ 40,000.00 Montevallo Girls’ School Building .-.---- Expenses Constitutional Convention -... -- 30,UW.W Half of legislative expenses - ---- - 25.000.UU $ 147,000.00 Total gain --.------...-.288,000.00 Deduct book-keeping deficit, October 1, 1901, (esti- mated) ....—----— ^ 9,000.00 Net gain - $ 279,000.00 948 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS These figures show: First-The deficit which was several years ago in round figures, 1700,000.00, has been practically wiped out, and urv will in 1902, be relieved of the burden imposed on it by such deficit to the extent of the amount by which it was reduced m 1901, namely, $71,000.00. Second—The gain to the Treasury in cash on October 1, 1901, over the same period m 1900, as above^ 59 000.00 shown, will be ---- ^ ’ Third—The gain to the Treasury in addition to above for 1902 over 1901 on account of extraordinary appropriations for 1901, will be - 147,000.00 Total gain for 1902 over 1901 .$ 279,000.00 Should taxable values for 1902 remain the same as for 1901 and the rate of taxation for general pu^oses be placed at 45 instead of 55 cents on the $100 the decrease from property tax would be about • 247,000.00 Excess of lessened expenditures over lessened re¬ ceipts $ 32,000.00 - The foregoing statements and figures show that the rate of taxation for general purposes could well be reduced from 55 o 45 cents for 1902, and there would then be a surplus of receipts over expenditures of about $32,000, without increase of receipts from property and license taxes. But the m "ease ot taxable‘s property values for 1902 “*'74“ at as much as the increase of such values for 1901 over 19Ut, namely $8,000,000. From such increase the tax at a 45 cent rate 000 The execs'^ of receipts for licenses for 190^ r" Sf-^servaUveritinrated a". $20,000. Addin, these fieures we have a total excess of receipts over disbursements for 1902 of at least $88,000 with a rate of 45 cents. But out of strict conservatism the Committee decided to recommend that the 45 cent rate for general purposes only go into effect beginning with the >ear 1903. Tn fixing- the rate at 65 cents it was contemplated that 45 cents thereof would be sufficient for general purposes, leaving ^hf special one mill tax each for school purposes and for pensions unaffected. ioao • With the rate at 55 cents for general purposes foj J902 it will be seen that there will be an actual r The actuafeash balance) in the Treasury on October 1st, 1902, of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 949 no less than $279,000 with taxable values and receipts from li¬ censes remaining at a standstill, and of not less than $321,000 should receipts from taxes and licenses increase for 1902 in the same amount as was such increase for 1901 over 1900. But there is an actual cash balance carried over in the Treasury on October 1st, 1900 of $621,000 (in round figures), against which it is true there were chargeable liabilities in an amount somewhat (but not greatly) in excess thereof. But, as a matter of fact, this cash balance remained practically untouched and those liabilities were largel)’ paid in October, November and December. 1900. out of the tax and license receipt.s of the Treasury during those months. There will be an actual cash balance in the Treasury on Oc¬ tober 1st, 1901, of $679,000. It makes no difference whether this amount is called a surplus or imt. In one sense it is a surplus, in another sense it is not a surplus. It certainly has the same force and effect to all i)ractical purposes as a sur))lus in the event the State continues in business and continues to collect sufficient other monies to pay the liabilities chargeable against these balances without resorting to them. It is a cash balance with no outstand¬ ing warrants against it. Should the State government be dis¬ solved October 1st, 1901, there would be payable but of this cash balance the Octol)er. Novembtr and December liabilities, in amount about the same as the balance. While these liabilities are chargeable against that balance, they are as a matter of fact not paid out of the Treasury faster than are the tax receipts of October, November and December, 1901, paid into the Treasury. So long as yearly disbursements are not in excess of receipts, and so long as the State continues to levy and collect taxes, this ac¬ tual cash balance will remain in the Treasury unexpended and might be considered a safety fund to be used in case of some un¬ foreseen misfortune. The condition of the Treasury on October 1st, 1902, will be as follows: Cash balance (at least) ---..$ 679,000.00 Actual surplus in addition (at least) ---- 321,000.00 Total cash balance —....... .-.-$1,000,000.00 Against which there will be liabilities (book-keeping) payable in October. November and December, 1902, about equal to the first item of $679,000. But the receipts of the Treasury during those months M'ill be more than sufficient to meet these liabilities without drawing out 1 cent of that cash balance. In the foregoing statements and deductions it has not been taken into consideration that the State can, by refunding its bonded indebtedness, which matures in 1906 diminish its interest 950 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS expenditures by about $120,000. Neither has it been taken into consideration that under the law exemptino: cotton tactones tio taxation until 1907, there is being invested in such industries m Alabama about $8,000,000 a year. Nor has it been taken m o consideration that taxable values during the years immediate y following an era of depression ascend in increasing ratio. The era of lowest depression of taxable values of late years was 1895 and 1896. In four years from 1896 to 1900 inclusive, taxable values increased $22,500.00, notwithstanding the rate ot taxation, general and special, was during thiit time increased by 1 1-2 mills. It is a well known fact that the increasing of the tax rate has the effect of decreasing taxable values, and on the other hand the decreasing of the tax rate has the effect of mcreasing taxable values. If these last matters be taken into considei ation it would be safe to estimate that notwithstanding the proposed reduction in the tax rate there can easily be accumulated a large surplus in the Treasury unless the General Assembly reduces^ the levy below the proposed limit on the one hand, or upon the otht makes large special and extra appropriations. MR. BROWNE—The remaining changes in the Article re¬ ported by the committee are as follows: In Section 5 for a levy of a special tax by counties for the construction of public roads. In the present Constitution, any county mav levy such special tax for public buildings and bridges as may be' authorized bv law. There is no constitutional limit, upon this special tax, but there is no provision in the present Con¬ stitution for the levy of a special tax for roads. The committee so amended this section as to limit that special tax for pub ic buildings and roads to one-quarter of one per cent , and pro¬ vided that the fund might also be expended for public roads as well as for public buildings and bridges. There is also a proviso that any county may, for public school purposes, levy and collect such special tax as may be authorized by law, provided that the tax must be first voted by a majority in numbers and in value ot taxable property, and provided, further, that such special tax shall not be allowed when it shall increase the total rate of taxa¬ tion for State and county purposes to more than $1.-5 upon every $100 of taxable property, exclusive of the special tax for bridges, etc. Section 6 has only been amended by striking out the words “and enterprises.” It reads now; “The property ot private cor¬ porations. associations and individuals of this State shall forever be taxed at the same rate; provided, this section shall not apply to institutions and enterprises devoted exclusively to religious, educational or charitable purposes.” The words and enterprises, after the word “institutions,” have been stricken out by the com¬ mittee. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 951 Section 7 has been so amended as to incorporate ^ Birmingham amendment. It has further been amen e s provide that a city can levy a special ^ax provided such special tax shall not be levied and collected when it ^ greater rate of taxation in any one year than ^ ^ county and city purposes, exclusive of the special co y bridges, etc. Section 8 of the Constitution of 1875 has been ^tncken ouL That section provided that the General Assembly certain salaries. There is no room now for its operation, and it was stricken out. There has been added to the Article by the committee, Sec¬ tions 9 and 10. Section 9 provides, “No county shall ’e«)me in¬ debted in an amount greater than five per centum of the taxable value of the property thereof; provided, this section shal P pK lo any inThtedne.. in excess of ha% already been created, or authorized by law to createo^^ The committee recommend an amendment to that proviso l!^ted so as io avoid any ambiguity and to make it r^d thus . “Provided, this section shall not apply the ^ debtedness over such five per centum which has already Peen created or authorized by now existing law to be created. Section 10 reads as follows: ..o„„tion 10—No city, town or other municipal corporation ^hallTo.TppTy ^o' ndeb«T,«r in excess of such five per centum ^reLy created or authorized by law to be created. These are all the changes recommended by the committee. MR. SAMFORD—I desire to offer an amendment to Sec¬ tion 1. • f THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Talladega. MR. BROWNE—I withdraw that amendment. the PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman move that this Ar¬ ticle be considered section by section? . 1, K MR BROWNE-It was a special order that .t should be “"ttp PRrsroENT -"The clerk will read the firs, section and hfa^eSSTof Z delegate from Pike will be in order. MR. GRANT— Before that is done, I desire to make a mo 952 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tion. There are only a few of the members, so far as I can find, that have this report before them. Three out of four around me have not go it. I want to move that the Secretary be directed to have this report printed. MR. SAMFORD—I understand the report has been printed and distributed. MR. GRANT—It has, but we can't get any and the Secretary has none. MR. OATES—Has not the report been read? THE PRESIDENT—Yes. MR. OATES—Won’t it be in the report of tomorrow? THE PRESIDENT—It was read sometime since. MR. OATES—Did not the gentleman from Talladega read it in his remarks? THE PRESIDENT—No. MR. OATES—I thought he had. MR. GRANT—If I am not out of order, I have a resolution on the subject which another delegate has prepared. The resolution was read as follows: Resolved, That 500 copies of the articles accompanying re¬ ports made to this Convention by the standing committees shall be printed. MR. SAMFORD—I had the floor on my amendment, and I didn’t yield for any such purpose as that. MR. GRANT—No, and I didn’t offer that. I thought it re¬ ferred to this matter. A vote being taken the motion to print was lost, on a divi¬ sion 39 ayes and 50 noes. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the first Sec¬ tion. The Section was read as follows: Section 1. All taxes levied on property in this State shall be assessed in exact proportion to the value of such property, but no tax shall be assessed upon any debt for rent or hire of real or personal property while owned by the landlord or hirer during the current year of such rental or hire and when such real or per¬ sonal property is assessed at its full value; Provided, however, the General Assembly may levy a poll tax, not to exceed $1.50 on CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 953 each poll, which shall be applied exclusively in aid of the pul)lic school fund in the county so paying the same. MR. SAMFC)RD—I desire to offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Add in fifth line of Section 1 after the word “value,” “and no license or other tax shall ever he imposed for the inspection of any article of merchandise used for fertilizer.” MR. SAMFORD^—As every man in this Convention know there has been for a numbti of years in this State a special tax placed U])()n a commodity used entirely by the farmers of this State for the ostensible pur])Oi>e of ins])ection of fertilizers. h.very- body who is at all conversant with the workings of this law knows that the tax imposed is larg’ely in excess of the amount necessary for such inspection of fertilizer. This is a special tax imposed upon the farming classes of the State, a tax which I contend is unwarranted. It is not mv purpose in offering this amendment to antag¬ onize anvbodv or anv class, luit I do it for the avowed purpose of taking off of the poorest class of our citizenship a tax which is entirelv unnecessary for their protection. In my county and in mv section every man w-ho engages in the I'lusiness of farm¬ ing is recjuired to pay to the State of Alabama oO cents per ton on every ton of fertilizer that he uses in his farming oiierations. This tax is imposed by the General Assembly of this State under the make-believe that it is for the protection of the farmers of this State l)y \vay of inspection for his fertilizer. Upon a close examination itito this subject those of you who desire more information upon the matter will ascertain that the actual cost of the inspection of these fertilizers does not exceed 10 cents per ton. Why is it then, Mr. President, that this State and the Legislature of this State should be permitted to impose upon the farmers of this State a tax which is in reality not for the benefit but is a burden to them. We have in the report from the Committee on Executive Department made the Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries an executive officer and as an execu¬ tive officer of this State his salary should be paid by general ap¬ propriation just as the salaries of other State officers are paid. If his office is necessary for the protection of a large class of the citizens of this State, then the funds necessary for the mainten¬ ance of his department ought to be provided for out of the gen¬ eral Treasury of the State, and not by any special tax. If I un^ derstand it, there is no other class of citizens in the State of Ala¬ bama Avho are specially taxed for the purpose of benefiting them- selves. MR. WHITE—Except the railroads. 954 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR SAMFORD—Yes, but we are going to try to keep them from being taxed hereafter for their special benefit. That being the case I ask you as fair men, as high-minded men, who are here attempting to do equal justice to every class of citizens, why should the farmers of Alabama be taxed 50 cents a ton on his fer¬ tilizer in order to maintain a department which they say is for his protection, and especially so in fact that only one-fifth of the amount goes towards maintaining the Department of Agriculture. There is no reason for it, and there can be no other explanation for it than the fact that there are certain institutions that have grown up over the State at the expense of the farmer, and are now being maintained by a tax upon the very men who need the protection most. MR. JACKSON—I would ask you what part of that tax goes to the Agricultural and Mechanical College? MR. SAMFORD—I don’t know. My information is $25,000 or $30,000, but that don’t change the proposition, although I love the Agricultural and Mechanical College as well as any man in Alabama. MR. JACKSON—I asked merely for information. MR. SAMFORD—The gentleman from Barbour informs me that $37,500 goes towards the maintenance of the Agricultural school at Auburn, but that does not change the proposition. If the Agricultural and Mechanical College at Auburn needs main¬ tenance and needs $37,500 for its maintenance, it is the duty of the legislature to appropriate it out of the general treasury and support that institution as other institutions are supported. If it is necessary for the maintenance of the civilization of this State that the agricultural high schools dotted all about over this State should be maintained, it is the duty of the legislature of the State to maintain them out of the general treasury of this State by gen¬ eral appropriation. Mr. President, if it is necessary that the fer¬ tilizers used by the poor farmers of this State should be taxed, let them be taxed because the State needs the tax, and not upon the subterfuge that the farmer needs the protection. It cannot be claimed because the law imposing this tax re¬ quires that the manufacturer shall not add this 50 cents a ton into the price for the fertilizer that the consumer has to pay, that the consumer does not pay it. That 50 cents is in there. It is added in the cost as every wise business man adds all the cost of manufacture into the price at which he sells his goods. If I am engaged in the sale of clothing and I go to the market at New York and buy a thousand dollars worth of clothing and bring it to Alabama to sell and the legislature of Alabama says, Mr. Samford, before you can sell that thousand dollars worth of clothing you have brought from the markets you must pay the State of Alabama for the protection of the wearers of your cloth- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 955 in^ a $100 license, I would be a sill}' business man, indeed, if I failed to add the $100 into the cost of the clothing I intended to sell. If I am en^a^ed in the manufacture of fertilizer and the cost of the fertilizer without the tax is $14 per ton and the State of Alabama says before you can sell this fertilizer you must pay me a tax of 50 cents per ton, I would be a foolish manufacturer, indeed, if I failed to add the 50 cents into the cost of the fertilizer. A DELEGATE — Is it not a fact that there bein^ some trouble in regard to collecting debts for fertilizers on account of this tax the manufacturer probably adds more than the 50 cents a ton to the price? MR. SAMFORD—That may be true, but I am speaking of the logical result and the natural result. MR. WFIITE—Are you not contending vigorously against the theory of sound republican government, that the manufacturer pays the tariff and not the consumer? MR. SAM FOR 13—I presume we of Alabama have long since been of the opinion that the man who wears the coat pays the price. 'J'hat being the case, it occurs to me it is absolutely un¬ necessary for me to discuss this question further. I desire sim¬ ply to place it before the Convention that if the farmers are to be taxed, tax them, l)ut don’t do it by a subterfuge. If the State of Alabama needs the 50 cents per ton for running expenses, then tax them the 50 cents per ton, but do it as taxes, and not under a pretext that it is for their own protection. If they need the pro¬ tection they are entitled to it like any other class of citizenship. If we need inspectors of guano and fertilizers it becomes our duty to see to it that the farming classes are protected by having an inspector, and having that inspector paid out of the general treasury of the State. I know as a matter of fact that I am op¬ posing the sentiment that has existed in the General Assembly for several years, but I trust that this Convention may see it in a different light to what it has been viewed by the different Gen¬ eral Assemblies. It is wrong that we continue to take this tax from one class and give it to others. It has been retained largely for the reason that the surplus, after paying the expenses of analysis of fertilizer goes to the cause of public education, to the agricultural schools which everybody who knows anything about them will agree with me amount to nothing more than local high schools all over the State. I was discussing this question in one of the rural neighborhoods in my Senatorial District, when I met an old farm¬ er who worked every day between the plow-handles, a man, how¬ ever, of the highest order of intelligence, in the precinct which has the honor of having been the home of my distinguished friend from Montgomery and I asked him “what benefit do the farmers 956 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS of Pike get from that 50 cents a ton they pay on fertilizer?” Near¬ ly blind, with green goggles and red hair and whiskers, he saidj ‘‘About once every five years we get a bulletin, and that is all. And yet Pike County is taxed $10,000 a year and don’t get a dol¬ lar back. MR. JACKSON—Is there a man in the State who can’t get the bulletins by simply having his name placed on the list? MR. SAMFORD—Yes, they can get them, but in the name of God, what good is the bulletin. It is like retaining the corn and sending the shucks to the farmer, to the man who pays the money. MR. SOLLIE—Worse than that. MR. DENT—If we don’t adopt the amendment, is it not per¬ fectly proper for the Legislature to do this at any session? MR. SAMFORD—Yes; but I am reminded by that of what was said about raising the Governor’s salary. If the Legislature has been waited on and asked again and again to give relief, and the jobbery that occurs after they get up here makes them lose sight of what they should do, I think this Constitution ought to be great and brave enough, if they think it is right that the farming class should be relieved of an iniquitous tax, to put it in the or¬ ganic law and limit the right of the Legislature to place a license tax on this class of merchandise. MR. WADDELL—It is strange to me that this cry has come up against this tax from a lawyer who resides in a city which has a few manufacturies of fertilizer. No cry has come up from the farmer of Alabama against this tax. In every Legislature which has attempted to amend this law or repeal it, the measure has been voted down by the farmers of that body. I think I can read between the lines. This tax, as I under¬ stand it, goes to establish a department which inspects this fer¬ tilizer and prevents the manufacturers of the article from palm¬ ing off a spurious article on the market. The farmers have never complained or objected to paying this tax. The analysis is given on each sack of the fertilizer and is, to a certain extent, a guaranty of the contents thereof. MR. REYNOLDS—Why is it that the State Chemist would not analyze fertilizer without knowing first what kind it is, and who put it up and what the analysis on the sack is? MR. WADDELL—I did not know that was a fact. I do not see, Mr. President, why this section should be amended in this regard. If the farmer don’t object to pay the tax, certainly no¬ body else is affected by it. The gentleman says that the farmers of Pike County pay f 10,0(X) lax a year. I expect it is the fertilizer CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 957 •company that is in operation that pays that tax, and not the farmer. MR. SAMFORD—I will state for the information of the gen¬ tleman that if you add the amount paid by the merchants and by the fertilizer companies in my county, it will amount to something’ like $20,000. MR. WADDELL — I see no just reason for putting this amendment in the Constitution, and I hope it will not be done. MR. WHITE—I do not know, since hearing the gentleman from Russell, whether I ought to say anything on this subject, because he seems to think that a lawyer ought not speak for a farmer. But I think we are all interested in ha'ving taxation fair and equal, and I can see no difference between imposing a tax of fifty cents a ton on fertilizers that are used by farmers, and levying fifty cents a ton tax on iron ore and coal that go to make up pig iron. MR. SAMFORD—They have no such tax. MR. WHITE—No, and we wouldn’t stand such a tax as that. Men engaged in the pig iron business are too enlightened and have too much at stake to submit to any such unequal taxa¬ tion as that. It is the farmer, the individual farmer, who only pays a few dollars and has not enough involved to make up a lobby to come to the legislative halls and prevent the imposition of such a tax as that. Who pays this tax? If Democratic doctrine and Democratic theories mean anything, it is the man who consumes the fertilizer. The fertilizer factories at Troy don’t pay the tax. The farmers of Alabama who use the fertilizer do it. If the fac¬ tory did pay it, it is wrong because we have no right to tax the fertilizer factory any more than we have a right to tax an iron furnace. MR. SAMFORD — Will the gentleman permit me to ask a question? Is it not a fact that the coal and iron miners have in¬ spectors appointed for them? MR. WHITE—Of course they have. MR. SAMFORD—And paid by the State? MR. WHITE—Yes; and their wages are regulated by the price of iron. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Do those inspectors inspect the products or the condition of the mines with reference to health and safety? MR. WHITE—What difference does it make whether they inspect one or the other ? 958 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. BURNETT—Don’t you think it necessary to have some expert to inspect the fertilizer to determine the value of the fer¬ tilizer so as to protect the farmer? MR. WHITE—Possibly so. Do 3^011 think there ou^ht to be an inspector to tell the value of coal and iron? MR. BURNIiTT—But you can’t see the value of a fertilizer like you can of iron or coal. MR. WHITE—I expect the man who uses it would be the one who could tell about it. MR. BURNETT—But if defective, it could only be discover¬ ed after the crop was ruined. MR. WHITE—But he would have a next crop still ahead of that. But if the fjentleinan is rij^ht that fertilizer should be inspected, then it becomes the duty of the State of Alabama to make the inspection and not the manufacturer to do it. Every farmer in Alabama pays this unjust tax imposed on him in the same proportion and I am informed by the g-entlenian from Troy that we can f^et all the inspection they need at 10 cents a ton, but they pay 50 cents. MR. LONG (Butler)—If the farmer, as you say, pa^’s this 50 cents tax because the manufacturer adds it to the cost of manufacturing- the article, why don’t the farmer put it in on his price for his cotton? MR. WHITE—Because the price of cotton is fixed at Liver¬ pool and New York. (Applause.—I wish the farmer had the op¬ portunity to fix the price of his cotton, but the difficulty is that the price of the farmers’ products is fixed in the great marts of the world and he has to sell at what he can get, and when he comes to buy anything, he has to pay the price at which the other man offers to sell. They tell us, however, that they need it for the Agricultural and Mechanical College. Is it any more incumbent upon the farm¬ ers of Alabama to support that institution than it is on the other people of Alabama to support the University? MR. HARRISON—Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. WHITE—Yes sir. MR. HARRISON—He says that this is to support the Agri¬ cultural College. Doesn’t my friend know that institution only receives one-sixth of it, and it takes about that to pay the ex¬ penses? MR. WHITE—Perhaps so. MR. HARRISON—You will find that it is so. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 959 MR, WHITE—I am answering^ the arg^ument I understood was being* made in the interest of this tax, that it went to main¬ tain the Agricultural and Mechanical College. MR. OATES—Will the gentleman allow a question? MR. WHITE—Yes sir. MR. OATES—Does the gentleman not know there are nine Agricultural Colleges in the State supported by this tax, one in each Congressional District? MR. WHITE—I have no doubt that is true. There have l)een a number of gentlemen to me already, asking me not to op¬ pose this measure, because they live in towns where these schools are situated. (Applause.) But, I ask, Mr. President, if there be nine Agricultural Schools in Alabama, maintained by this tax, does that make it any more just? Why are these schools main¬ tained? Is it not for the uplifting and upbuilding of the people of Alabama. Is it not to improve the citizenship of Alabamians? If it is not, then they ought not to exist. And, if that is the pur¬ pose, then all the taxable property of Alabama should contribute equally to their support. I am glad to see these colleges in these towns, and I for one regret that we do not have one in every town in Alabama, but, Mr. President, I do not believe it is right to im¬ pose upon one class of our fellow citizens a tax for educational purposes that we do not impose upon every other class in Ala¬ bama. We want the farms in Alabama to become productive. We want the farmers in Alabama to become independent and prosperous. If we really desire that, then we ought to lift this unjust burden from off their shoulders. We want fertilizer fac¬ tories in Alabama. We want cotton mills in Alabama, and iron furnaces all over the State where they can be, but, Mr. President, if we expect them to come to Alabama, and prosper, we must deal fairly and justly with all. 1 do not know how much it oppresses, nor do I care; it is not just the amount of the tax, but the fact that it is unjust, the fact that it is imposed upon them and is an unjust discrimination against them, as a class, that makes me rise to my feet and ask the adoption of the amendment of the gentle¬ man from Pike. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—JVIr. President, as a farmer, I rise to endorse the remarks made by the gentleman from Jefferson, and also by the gentleman from Pike. As a farmer, from experi¬ ence, Mr. President, I charge openly and boldly, without the fear of successful contradiction, that today, tomorrow, or at any time, I might send one, two, three or five hundred pounds of this fer¬ tilizer that is taxed, and I could not get it analyzed without giving the name and brand of the guano, analysis printed on the sack. Now then, Mr. President, why should we farmers be taxed— 960 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. DENT—Will the gentleman allow a question? MR, GREER—Just as many as the gentleman likes. MR. DENT—When you send it for analysis, what is the difference between the analysis reported by the Chemist and the one sent up? MR. GREER—We simply get back a statement that it comes up to analysis. That is the only explanation we get back. MR. ASHCRAFT—I desire to ask the gentleman a question. Did you ever individually receive such a reply from the State Chemist? MR. GREER—I have not— MR. ASHCRAFT—Have )’ou ever seen them? MR. GREER—I have, yes. sir. And I want to say further, that the State Chemist himself, I am quite sure, will not deny what I have said, that when it has been sent, Mr. President, for analysis, word comes back that we will have to furnish, not, per¬ haps, in just so many words, but that we must furnish the brand of the fertilizer, and the analysis printed on the sack. It is a well known fact, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, that the manufacturer adds 50 cents a ton to the cost of the fertilizer, and the farmers who use the fertilizers have the tax to pay. Unfortunately for the farmer, gentlemen of the Con¬ vention, he cannot hide his property, and escape taxation as the gentlemen who own money and who own bonds, but our lands are there, and they are taxed for every dollar that they are worth, and we pay it without grumbling. Why should gentlemen say that we should have this protection, when we have never asked for it. Why should they say we should have this undue protection, when in the name of God and the farmers of Alabama, I tell you we do not want it. We say that it is an unjust discrimination against us, that it is an unjust imposition that taxes fertilizer 50 cents a ton which is taken from our hard earned dollars. The gentleman from Lee informs us that only one-sixth of this amount goes to maintain the Agricultural Schools in Alabama. I care not whether it is one-sixth— MR. HARRISON—Will the gentleman allow me to inter¬ rupt. I said about one-sixth went to the Agricultural and Me¬ chanical College where the work of analyzing is done. I didn’t say the other schools. They only receive about enough to pay them for what they do. MR. GREER—I am glad the gentleman corrected me, for the simple reason that though it is one-sixth or one-tenth the prin¬ ciple is the same. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 %1 I want to say to you, as a farmer, and as a man who has fol¬ lowed agriculture for a living since he has lived in the great State of Alabama, that I have never received one five cents worth of benefit from the agricultural colleges in Alabama. I want to say to you that the 50 cents I pay as a tax on every ton of fertilizer I use every year I feel is collected from me unjustly and unwarrant- edly. I want to say that the farmers of Alabama, all over the State, feel just as I do about it, and as a farmer want to ask the members of this Convention, to help them to vote for and pass the amendment offered by the gentleman from Pike, in support of the farmers, the hard-working farmers of Alabama. Now, Mr. President, we do not object to the nine agricultural schools in Alabama. We are proud of them. We would not take from a single district the school that it has, but if the school is worthy and is meeting with success, then pay for it as you do for other schools, out of the general appropriations, and out of the funds which are collected from taxes generally, and then the farm¬ ers of Alabama will pay their full share to support and maintain the same. One question I would like to ask the gentlemen who support the agricultural schools in Alabama, and that is if they know how many plows it takes to run each of those schools, and how many men they turn out each year as scientific farmers? MR. WHITE—I will ask the gentleman if he knows the price of fertilizer in Georgia, in comparison with this State? MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I do not. MR. WHITE—I have just been informed it is 40 cents a ton less in Georgia than in Alabama. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—The question has been asked why the farmer does not fix the price of his cotton? The question was partly answered by the gentleman from Jefferson. I want to say the reason we do not fix the price of our cotton is because it is already fixed for us in Liverpool, and that we receive here what it is worth in Liverpool, less the cost of transportation, and less a considerable commission and middleman’s profit. Now, Mr. President, I did not intend to make an argument on this question. I hope, and I trust that the gentlemen of this Convention will relieve the farming classes of Alabama of this unjust discrimination. I believe that if the men who think they are the self-constituted guardians of this class of people will reflect a moment when we ask for bread, will not give us a stone. I think the farmers know what they want. I think as a plain practical farmer I know what I need, and I say Mr. President, that I do not need it. I do not want it, and the farmers of Alabama do not want this fifty-cent tax levied against every ton of fertilizer used in the State. We are told that the farmers in the Legislature voted down a proposition to take the fifty-cent tax off. I want 962 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS to ask the Convention when, in recent years at least, has there been a single time that the farmers have had a majority in the General Assembly, when we could have voted down such a propo¬ sition? I wish to ask if the gentleman realize how small is the percentage of farmers in this Convention? It is only a handful and we come and ask the lawyers, and we come and ask the busi¬ ness men, as business men, and as honest men, to help to relieve us of this burden—this unjust burden that we have borne for years. Mr. President, the gentleman from Pike and the gentleman from Jefferson have both ably discussed these propositions. The gentleman from Jefferson trankly tells you that the coal men and the iron men would not stand such unjust legislation; that they would not stand such an unjust discrimination against them ; but, unfortunately, the farmers of Alabama have not the power; they have not the might to rise up and say to the people of Alabama, You shall not discriminate against us. We come to you as law- abiding citizens, as tax-paying citizens, and ask you, in the name of the common people of Alabama, in the name of the farmers, who are the back-bone and sinew of the world, to relieve them of this unjust taxation. If you will but stop and think a moment, I believe you will do it. I say again, we do not need an inspector. I say again that it is a farce, and it is impossible to get fertilizer analyzed without first writing the brand on the fertilizer, and also the analysis on the sack. In conclusion, I want to say that we feel very grateful to the lawyers, and other members of this Convention, who are going around, and taking upon themselves the task of button-holing the members of this Convention now, in an endeavor to secure pledges against this amendment. The farmers of Alabama may feel grate¬ ful to those members ; we note with pleasure how zealous they are, and yet I want to say to them, if they carry the proposition, we will go back, we will bear the burden, we will continue to bleed for awhile, but after awhile the time ma}^ come when the lawyers and others of the General Assembly may be in as hopeless a mi¬ nority as the farmers are today, and then, as proclaimed by the gentleman from Jefferson, we may demand and secure our rights. MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman allow a question? MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Yes, sir. MR. WHITE—I want to know if the inspection has improv¬ ed the article any? MR. GREER (Calhoun)—I am glad that my attention has been called to that. That is the point I was about to overlook. I want to say, as a farmer, that farmers give a note that reads CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 963 something like this: that the man who sells the guano, the mer¬ chant, is not responsible for the crop. He does not guarantee it. The guano is sold solely on the guaranteed analysis, without any guarantee as to the result of the fertilizer. If it pays, you are all right, you are that much in ; if it does not pay you, and proves worthless, you pay for it and take your medicine. That is all there is in it. You have no help for it whatever. Those are the provisions in the notes we give for the fertilizer. They contain absolutely no guarantee. And in answer to the gentleman, I want to say that the guano today is nothing compared to what it was twenty years ago. Where a hundred pounds, twenty years ago, would produce a given result, it takes from three to four hundred pounds today to produce a like result; and I want to say that I do not believe there is a farmer upon this floor who has experimented, and is really a farmer—I mean the farmer who depends upon his farm for a support—but will endorse all that I say, when I assert that guano today, under the fifty-cent a ton inspection tax, is a much inferior article to that we used to have without the fifty-cent in¬ spection tax added. Now, gentlemen, in conclusion, let me beg of you, in the name of a hard-working class of people in the State of Alabama, as a whole; a people who have been discriminated against in the past, let me beg of you in their name, to relieve us of this unjust taxation, and this burden, and in future years ''our children’s children will rise up and call you blessed.’’ MR. PALMER—Mr, President and gentlemen of this Con¬ vention : This is the first time I have been on my feet during the sitting of this Convention. I have not introduced an ordinance, nor a single resolution, nor have I opened my mouth in this Con¬ vention. Gentlemen, when you began this Convention, and start¬ ed to call the roll, my name being well down on the list, before you got to my name, I was satisfied you had enough resolutions and ordinances to make a Constitution, and that there was no use to offer more. It was two days before you got to my name again, and when you got there, I then thought that you had enough for ten Constitutions, and so I have held my tongue, and have done nothing but vote, and always, under almost all circumstances, vot¬ ing to sustain the committee’s reports. It seems to be the custom of this body, and it seems almost as bad in that respect as the lower House of Congress, that when a man gets on the floor you talk him down. I have said nothing to delay the work of this Convention, and if you are not inter¬ ested in what I say, why just begin to talk and I will quit and get out of the way. Now gentlemen, I am a farmer, although I go on crutches, I do nothing but farm, and thanks be to God, I make a good living 964 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS out of it. I have raised up and educated my children as well as any man in this State, although I go upon crutches. There has been a great deal said here by gentlemen about the fertilizer busi¬ ness. I am satisfied that there is not a man in this House but what is willing to do what is right, provided he knows what is right. Now in this State, since the war, all Southeastern and Southern Alabama has been brought into a state of cultivation. Before the war we used to throw out tens of thousands of bushels of seed around our seed houses, and the cattle would work them into the ground during the winter and they were not utilized. There were no oil mills in the country before the war, and all this was lost. We have now commenced to use commercial fertilizers and use them largely. It is human nature, just as soon as there is a great demand for any product, for people to begin to put a spurious article on the market for money. It is so with fertilizers. There has been a great deal said here about our Agricultural Colleges, and the analysis of fertilizers by the State Chemist. I tell you, gentlemen, these fertilizers are analyzed, and the gentle¬ men who have preceded me are to a great degree mistaken in the charges that they have brought against the Agricultural College. If you will take a sample of fertilizer, or a sample of your soil, and send it to the State Chemist, while he has his class in the class room, it is a pleasure to him to analyze these things before the class, and he will do it. Now if we take up agricultural chemistry and study it, we find that there are thirteen chemical elements that enter into plant life, and that nature has richly provided all these elements except three. We need nitrogen, we need potash, and we need phosphoric acid. We get the latter out of phosphate, the cheapest of all fertilizers. It is dug from beds in Florida and South Caro¬ lina, and it is the cheapest of all fertilizers. Next in cost is the nitrogenous manure. Cotton seed meal is the strongest that we have. The costliest is the potash, and I think the most of that comes from Germany, and if you get muriate of potash, it is very costly indeed, costing about |50 a ton. Unless you throw some protection around the farmer and see that the analysis of these fertilizers comes up to a certain standard of nitrogen and potash, (the phosphates are cheap, not much more than dirt, and a great deal of it I am sorry to say is nothing more than dirt), he is with¬ out means of protection. If you have these manures analyzed, why then he can tell what he is doing, because the principal ingredients as I have said, or the nitrogenous manure and potash. Novv there is one thing I desire to call to the attention of this Convention, and gentlemen I thank you from the bottom of my heart that you have quit talking, and that you are listening to an earnest old clod-hopper, that has done nothing but hop the clods all his life. We have in this State nine Agricultural Schools. I live within three or four miles of one of them. I have been in them CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 965 time and time again, and the schools are not doing all that the law making power intended that they should. There are nine of these schools and they are given enough money almost to run them, and they have a free tuition, but the boys who go there do not know that it is an Agricultural College. They do not perform one minute’s manual labor. The farms are rented out, and I know this from observation, because I have been to the school time and again. Now if you will make these schools strictly agricultural schools; put a professor there that knows what agriculture in a scientific way is, and teach all the boys how to farm scientifically, the State will be blessed beyond measure. But if you do not do this, if you just run these schools as common high schools, it is a shame and a fraud on the State that nine schools should be sup¬ ported at the expense of this State, which are doing no more good than any other high school in the State. That is my position, gen¬ tlemen. The Agricultural College is doing its duty, as far as it can, but gentlemen, if you would inform yourself, and know what an Agricultural School really is, just take a trip to Starkville, Mississippi. They have got there the best Agricultural College in the South. It was headed by Gen. Stephen D. Lee. He is gone frorn the presidency now, and I do not know how it is car¬ ried on since he left. The fault lies in the management of these schools. If we do make them agricultural schools, every boy who goes there will do two hours manual labor a day, but if he would do four hours work a day, every poor boy in the district would have a chance to go there and get his education, and pay his board, and it would not cost him a cent. That is the object of these schools, but we have missed it, and we do not carry it out. I would like to see the amendment carried, as it goes in the right direction, but I would like to see that change, and stop the appropriation to the agricultural schools unless they are agricultural schools indeed. That is my opinion as to that. But as for the analysis of the fertilizers, that is all right, and if you cut that out, then the farmers of the State of Alabama will buy more dirt than they buy manure, as sure as you are born. The manufacturer will make the price of the dirt, and call it phos¬ phate, nitrogen and potash. The farming class, as a mass, do not know what it is. Now I would like to say something further, but I have talked enough— Call of “go on, go on.” I have been a close student all my life, and tried to be perfect in what I did. There has been right sharp things said here about bulletins. There was a bulletin sent to me several years ago, that there was an experimental station at Uniontown. I think Mr. deGraffenreid lives close by— MR. deGRAFFKNRElD—I live near there. 966 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. PALMER—That bulletin read that they had taken an old worn out gulley, a prairie field, and had plante it m gr^es and they are making ten tons of grapes to the acre, and they were selling them at 10 cents a pound. That figured up right big to the acre, and I got on the cars and went to Uniontown to see about it. I got off of the cars and took a plank walk and walked to a hotel, and met an old man who was keeping it, I don now his name, and asked him where the agricultural he hung his head and said: ‘‘agricultural station. Didn t know one was here; but there is a stable keeper here that knows every¬ thing, and I will send for the stable keeper and he will carry you to this agricultural farm station.” Well the stable keeper came, a very communicative fellow, too, and nice fellow to talk to. I told him what I wanted, and what I had come for. He said he would carry me out. Now there was another thing said m that bulletin, which was that they had tile drained that farm, and the lands where the tiles were was producing fifty per cent, more grapes than the land that was not drained. That was a wonderful thing to the farmer, to increase the production fifty per cent, by laying tile drains. You lawyers, I suppose you all know the law, but from the way I hear you talk you do not know much about farming. (Applause.) Well, I went over to see the farm. He had one grape vine tied up to a house that marks civilization in every family where you see it, and the ground is very rich there, and I found that he had counted the bunches of grapes on this vine, and I averaged it by estimating if you put the vines so many feet apart, and every vine was as good as that, there would be ten tons of grapes to the acre. (Loud applause.) I said then, show me the tiles, I have seen the grape vine behind this little house, but show me the tiling. He said, ‘my dear sir, you are the first man in Alabama that has ever come here to make an inquiry about them; there is not a single one in working order; every one is filled up; they run up and down, and up and down, and we thought the water would seek its level and go out, but didn’t know the dirt would get in there and stop it up.” Well he was a young fellow, and I said what pay do you get for this thing, and he said sixteen hundred dollars a year and all that I can make on it. I thought it was a pretty good place to hide out a politician, and get him out of the way. Now gentlemen, I am satisfied that you want to do what is right. We farmers do not object to paying the fifty cent tax, if you will take the money and put it into the common schools. There is where it should go, or to the agricultural schools, if they are strictly agricultural schools, but we need farmers that know something about scientific farming. I tell you my dear audience, gentlemen of the Convention, I do not know anything about par¬ liamentary law and do not want to come to any more Conven- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 967 tions, I am tired of it, but I will tell you gentlemen, that if you get the stumps out of your field, and get a disk plow and hitch three or four mules to that plow and break the land well in the subsoil, it will thrive, and if you will get harrows and cultivators and get the land clear of clods, you can put a white boy up on that cultivator and make him attend to a hundred acres of land. There is no use talking about the scarcity of labor, if you fix your land and go about it right. Now when you buy a fertilizer, you want a fertilizer where you know what you are getting; you want a fertilizer that shows a certain percentage of nitrogen, which is the best fertilizer on sandy or any lands, and then you want so much phosphate, and so much of potash, and you have got the complete fertilizer, and if you want to, you can mix them yourself. I moved down in Washington County three years ago. A merchant lived just across the road from me. He was the agent of a fertilizer company, and he told me “you buy this, it will give the very best results, it will cost you $19.50 a ton.” The phosphates will cost you twenty-two, all the merchants here know' that; the potash will cost you fifty, and this was put at nineteen. It was very cheap. I put the stuff out, and then got some cotton seed meal and put some potash with it, and upon my word, if there is any truth in me at all, the manure that I bought mixed was nothing but dirt. It was no account, and the other showed fine results. MR. SAMFORD—Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. PALMER—Yes, sir. MR. SAMFORD—You had to pay 50 cents per ton to have that dirt analyzed? MR. PALMER—Yes, sir. MR. SAMFORD—Under the present law? MR. PALMER—No, I didn’t send it there— MR. SAMFORD—But you did pay the 50 cents a ton. It had a tag on it. MR. PALMER—But what I am contending is this, we want it analyzed, but it does not cost any fifty cents a ton to do it. I believe a nickle a ton will pay the cost. But gentlemen, under¬ stand me, I do not object to the fifty cents, but after you get it out of us, put it where it will bring in some return. Put it into the common schools, or else make the agricultural schools indeed, what they ought to be. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—In speaking of what it costs, the State received this year in round numbers ninety-six thousand dollars from the sale of these fertilizer tags, and the expenses were OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS . j ntifl about three thousand dollars of thif^state about eighty-six thousand dollars. MR. PALMER-WelL that is a heap of money ; more than I ever expect to have. MR. GREER—May 1 ask the gentleman a ciuestion." MR. PALMER—Certainly. MR GREER—I will ask you if you know what it does cost to analyze this fertilizer? MR. PALMER—No, I do not. MR. GREER—I will state for your information. I have been talking to Mr. Adams, and he says that it actually costs about ten cents a ton. He also suggests, and I want to correct that, that he thinks I am mistaken in regard to the analysis of fertilizers. That came from the Clerk of a Committee appointed by our club, and my remarks were based upon the result of inquiries made by said Committee. I do not want to do any one an injustice. However, the Clerk, Mr. Adams, agrees with me as to the cost of making the analysis. MR. PALMER—Gentlemen, when you collect this tax, put it in the primary schools; put it where the children can reap some benefit and learn to read and write. Put it in the academies, un¬ less your agricultural schools be made agricultural schools indeed. Every boy that goes through and gets free tuition ought to be made to do two hours work a day, and if he does four hours work a day, a poor boy can go through free and be educated. They do it at Starksville, and why cannot we do it? We can, and gentle¬ men, I spoke to two gentlemen, trustees of that school where I live, and I said gentlemen, we ought to make this an agricultural school, or withdraw the appropriation. They said, yes, you are right, but it is in our district, and let’s get the money. I live within six miles of it, and can send my children to it, but I want the school to do what it should, or not make the appropriation. Now, gentlemen, I thank you from the bottom of my heart that you have listened to me. It is my first speech, the first one I ever made in any Convention in my life. I have been as green as a gourd, and afraid to open my mouth, because I was afraid somebody would spring the “question” on me, and I don't know how many things you have got to shut a fellow up here. (Loud applause.) MR. PEARCE—Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Con¬ vention, it is very embarrassing to me to attempt to make a speech on the present occasion, on this proposition, under the existing CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 969 circumstances. I am very peculiarly situated. I am from a County where there is one of these “guano schools” as I call them, and I am in the presence of ninety-six men who are learned in the law. I was raised at a time when school facilities were very poor and my languag'C will be very poor, and consequently I am further embarrassed. It has been insisted by the gentleman who has just preceded me, that if you tax the guano at all, you ought to put it into the public school fund. Well, I must confess that will be a milder piece of class legislation than the other, but it will still be class legislation. It would be asking the farmer to specially add to the school fund, after he has paid his taxes on his other property, but it would be milder and better than to put it into these guano schools. So far as the guano schools in different sections of the State—and excuse me for calling them “guano schools,” because I not much of a man for big words anyhow, and there is too much of that other name and I cannot remember it all—the people in my county who go to that school and get the benefit, if any one gets any benefit, are not the people who puy the tax on the guano. They are usually the sons of men who are not farmers, or to a great extent they are, and they do not use any guano, and besides all of the farmers need their folks at home, and usually cannot patronize the schools. But we propose, and we come out and say as Democrats, that we are in favor of a government that stands for equal rights to every man and special favors to none. As I understand Democratic principles as promulgated by the Demo¬ cratic party, that is what we represent. Now. sir, if to have equal rights to all in this country, and special favors to none, is to have the farmer taxed fifty cents a ton on the guano he uses. I do not want any equal rights in mine. I do not want them. It has been insisted on this floor, by some gentlemen, that the farmers have never complained of this tax. W ell, I am here to tell you that they hav'e complained of it, and I know what I am talking about, and I expect that the gentleman who makes the statement in all ijrob- ability is a lawyer, and the farmer would not likely go to the law¬ yer and complain to him about his taxes, because the farmers ex¬ pect the lawyers to hold office, and they would not expect him to go to the Legislature and relieve him from it. It has been insisted here that it was very important to have a tax on guano, in order to protect the purity of it. In my judg¬ ment, and my judgment is made up from a long experience, it is entirely unnecessary for that. I am here to tell you that I sold and used guano for years and years before there ever was a tax on it, or any arrangements to have it inspected, and in my judg¬ ment, it was as good, or better, then than it is now. Why, it would be unreasonable to suppose a man would set up a factory to manufacture guano, and manufacture spurious goods and sell them to the people. How long would he last at it? You may as 970 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS well insist, as it has been insisted tleman from Pike, that the people av ho it is taxed to pay an inspector to the clotjim^g, of good quality, and well put Jo^ethe . It able to have an inspector for the s^oes that a try, and hats, and so on down the 1 .1 J reasonable, people consume in th>s country P ^ouW bejus^^^ gentlemen, and you w’dl see that whole thing is gotten Opinion now is, candidly expressed or othef than S,F=-S“Sf%t=5ii I look at it. Now gentlemen, I do not want to detain you longer. I have not been ’leaking any racket in this Convention and I dojnot want ?o consume you^r va'luable time. I have reasonable, common-sense way, and have told >ou the fac . are one or two— MR. SAMFORD—I ask the gentleman to yield to me teny porarily. I desire to make a motion that the rules be suspe , and that this Convention remain in session until this question s disposed of, or until this amendment is disposed of. Upon a vote being taken, a division was called for, and the motion to suspend the rules was lost. MR. FITTS—I move that we remain in session until the gentleman from Marion completes his argument. The motion was carried. MR PEARCE—As I started to say, there is one or two more propositions I wanted to discuss in connection with this matter. It has been insisted to me, before I came here, and since I came, that the farmers did not have this tax to pay. Well, the reply I have to that is simply that if the farmers do not have to pay it, and it is right to impose the tax of fifty cents a ton on the manu¬ facturer, there has been a greater mistake made, for they ought to have gotten fifty dollars a ton instead of fifty cents a ton and had a school everywhere. That is my opinion about it, and you see that proposition will not hold good. In conclusion, I want to tell you, gentlemen, that I know the working people; I know the little boys and the little girls in this country, and I have ridden over this country and seen them dig¬ ging and delving to make cotton at five cents a pound to pay this guano tax, and I appeal to you, gentlemen, as I tell you, notwith¬ standing I am from a county which has one of these schools m CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 971 it, I appeal to you on both sides of this hall, when you vote on this proposition, for God’s sake vote it down; it will be the most pa¬ triotic and the most sensible thing you ever did in your life. Stand up for your manhood; stand up for what is right; let it go which way it may. I thank you, gentlemen, for your attention. THE PRESIDENT—Leaves of absence are requested for Mr. Gofer for today, and for Mr. Davis of Etowah for tomorrow. After making the usual announcements, the Convention ad¬ journed until 10 o’clock tomorrow morning. Corrections. In Mr. Pillan’s remarks on Section 4 of Executive report, should read, “It (the Electoral Commission) made one ruling as to Florida and exactly the opposite as to Oregon.’’ TWENTY-NINTH DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Tuesday, June 25, 1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Elliott, as follows; We thank Thee for the continued manifestation of Thy love; we thank Thee that Thy good hand has been over us during an¬ other night; that we are permitted to begin this day’s work, en¬ joying a reasonable portion of health and strength. Our hearts swell with emotions of gratitude when we remember Thy good¬ ness and kindness to us. When we take a retrospect of the past we can see many things that pall for an expression of gratitude from our hearts. And now. Oh Lord, as we begin this day’s work we invoke the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. Grant our Father to bless this Convention. Bless every home represented here today. We pray that Thou wilt surround them with the very best of circumstances. Preserve the lives of those who are left behind. And now. Father, we pray Thee that everything that is done today may be for Thy glory and for the good of this State. These blessings we ask for Jesus’ sake, Amen. Upon a call of the roll 131 delegates responded. 972 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS leaves of absence. For Mr. NeSmith for today and tomorrow; Mr. Renfro for today; Mr. Gofer for yesterday and today; Mr. O Neal (Lauder¬ dale) for this morning’s session; Mr. Maxwell for yesterday an today; Mr. Greer (Perry) for today. The report of the Committee on Journal was read, stating that the Journal for the twenty-eighth day of the Convention was correct, and upon motion the report of the Committee evas adopt¬ ed. MR. WHITE—I wish to call attention to an error in the stenographic report of yesterday. I was made to say are you not contending vigorously against the theory of sound republican gov¬ ernment.” I said “are you not contending against the well ac¬ cepted doctrine of the Republican Party.” THE PRESIDENT—The stenographer will make the cor¬ rection. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I desire to make an inquiry. Is there or not a special order for this morning for this hour, on a pending question? THE PRESIDENT—The special order will not be taken up until it is reached in the regular order of business. The regular order now will be the call of the roll for the introduction of ordi¬ nances. MR. DENT—I desire to have a correction made in the sten¬ ographic report of yesterday. I am put down as asking Mr. Sam- ford “if we do not adopt the amendment, is it not perfectly proper for the Legislature to do this at any session?” I did not ask that question, and my recollection is that the gentleman from Lauder¬ dale, Mr. Ashcraft, made the inquiry. I desire the correction made. THE PRESIDENT—The stenographer will make the cor¬ rection. MR. BLACKWELL—I desire to have corrected a statement, “the result is whether it is desired or not, a mighty machine is built up by the appointment of the Governor to these terms.” Instead of that it should be “during his term.” Further down it says “ninety-one per cent of those appointed by the Governor, and I said ninety-nine per cent. THE PRESIDENT—^The Secretary will call the roll of del¬ egates for the introduction of ordinances, etc. MR. BULGER—I desire to offer a resolution. Resolution No. 187 by Mr. Bulger: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 973 Resolved, That the articles to be adopted by the Convention as a part of the constitution shall be taken up and considered by the Convention in the order in which they are reported by the committee to which they have been referred. Referred to Committee on Rules. MR. BROOKS—My name was called and I did not have time to answer, the clerk ran over so rapidly. I desire to yield my call to the gentleman from Lowndes. Ordinance No. 398 by Mr. Rogers (Lowndes.) Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : That Section 17 of Article XIV be amended as follows: The Legislature by general law shall have the right to charter savings banks with a capital stock of not less than (100,000) one hundred thousand dollars paid in cash. Officers of such institutions shall give bond to three trustees who shall be stockholders, but not officers. Said trustees shall have power to examine the affairs of the bank as often as they deem necessary, but not less than (3) three times a year. Each stockholder shall be liable to creditors of the banks to an amount not exceeding three times, the par value of the stock held. Referred to Committee on Banks and Banking. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I offer a resolution by re¬ quest of the Committee on Printing, in regard to printing the journal. Resolution 188, by Mr. Carmichael (Coffee.) Be it resolved. That the Secretary of State is hereby author¬ ized and instructed to contract for the printing and binding of 1,000 copies of the journal of the Convention; Be it further resolved. That the printing and binding shall be done in the same manner and under the same law as that of the House and Senate Journal, and that the printing and binding shall be paid out of the State appropriation for printing and binding. Referred to Committee on Schedule of Printing and Incident Expenses. MR. COBB—I move a suspension of the rules, and the adop¬ tion of the resolution I send to the Clerk. The resolution was read as follows: 974 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Resolution 189, by Mr. Cobb: All errors in the stenographic report will be privately called to the attention of the reporter who is directed to make necessary corrections. Referred to Committee on Rules. Upon a vote being taken, the convention refused to suspend the rules. Resolution 190, by Mr. Jones (Wilcox.) Resolved, That it is the sense of this convention, that no amendment should be proposed by any delegate to an article of the Constitution, as reported by Committee, when such amend¬ ment could be enacted into a law by the General Assembly of Alabama. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance 399 by Mr. Kyle (by request.) To provide for the formation or creation of private corpora¬ tions in the State of Alabama. First—Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in Conven¬ tion assembled. That after the ratification of this Constitution, no private corporation shall be organized or created in the State of Alabama, except in manner and form prescribed in the follow¬ ing sections, from 1 to 4 inclusive. Section 1. Any person desiring to form a corporation shall file with the Secretary of State a petition setting out (a) name and location of proposed corporation, amount of proposed capital stock, number of shares of common and preferred stock, and value and character of same, amount to be issued, and amount to be re¬ served in treasury and proposed issue of bonds (b) name of cor¬ porators and their residence, (c) effects of corporations and fran- chise desired. Sec. 2. L>pon the filing of the petition and its approval by the Governor and Secretary of State, the Secretary of State shall issue to two or more of those interested, a commission to receive subscriptions to capital stock of proposed corporation, and when one-half of the capital stock is subscribed and a board of directors and officers of the corporations have been elected, a charter shall issue, signed by the Governor and Secretary of State and the corporation thus formed shall have all corporate rights, named m the petition, not in conflict with the laws in this State and the United States, but no right to take or condemn private property, without first making just compensation therefor, according to law, shall be conferred by any such charter. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 975 Sec. 3. Before the issue of charter to any corporation or¬ ganized as provided in preceding sections, there shall be paid as fees for organization, the following amounts for the use of the State; In no case, less than $25; on all corporations with capital stock of $10,000, and not more than $100,000, $100; on all above $100,000 and not to exceed $500,000, $500; on all above $500,000 and not to exceed $1,000,000, $1,000; and an additional fee of $750 for every million or fractional part of million added to the first million of capital stock. Sec. 4. The General Assembly of the State shall have author¬ ity to impose on all corporations organized an annual license tax not to exceed three-fourths of the tax charged as charter tax. Referred to Committee on Corporations. Ordinance No. 400 by Mr. Thompson. To provide for a tax on collateral inheritances. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, That all estate, real, personal and mixed, money, public and private securities for money of every kind, passing from any person who may die, seized and possessed thereof, being in this State, or any part of such estate, or estates, money or securities, or interest therein, transferred by the interstate laws of this State or by will, deed, grant, bai'gain, gift or sales, made or intended to take effect in possession after the death of the grantor, devisor or donor, to any person or persons, bodies politic or corporate, in trust or otherwise other than to or for the use of the father, mother, husband, wife, children, or lineal descendants of the gran¬ tor, devisor, donor or intestate, shall be subject to a tax of two and a half per centum on every $100 of the clear value of such estate, money or securities. And the tax so collected shall be applied to the common schools. Sec. 2. The General Assembly shall enact such laws as may be necessary to put into effect the provisions of the foregoing section. Referred to Committee on Taxation. Upon the call of the standing committees no business was forthcoming. MR. SAMFORD—I rise to a point of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of inquiry. MR. SAMFORD—I would like to know what would now be the regular order. THE PRESIDENT—The regular order will be the next or¬ der of business, which would be the report of special committees. 976 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS There are none, and the next order would be unfinished business. MR. SAMFORD—That would be the business we were en- ^ag^ed in on yesterday afternoon? THE PRESIDENT—The business we were on was a special order, to come up under the head of special orders. MR. SAMFORD—Are special orders considered. The busi¬ ness we have in hand is laid aside until— THE PRESIDENT—The consideration of the special order. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The special order, Mr. Presi¬ dent, was immediately after the reading of the journal. A matter of reconsideration. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair this matter that was pending, the consideration of the report of the Commit¬ tee on Taxation, would come up immediately after the special committees. MR. SAMFORD—Then that would be in order now. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that it would be. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, by a vote of the House on yesterday, the motion to reconsider the proposed addi¬ tional section to the article reported by the Committee on Execu¬ tive Department was made a special order for today, immediately after the approval of the journal, and I submit that this is in or¬ der after the regular call for the reports of committees. THE PRESIDENT—If the gentleman desires to enter the motion the Chair will entertain it at this time. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I did make it on yesterday, but I now desire to move to reconsider the vote by which the pro¬ posed section 31, offered by the gentleman from Dallas was de¬ feated. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move to lay that motion on the table. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I had not yielded the floor. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will rule for the benefit of the gentleman from Pike, in the opinion of the Chair the special order referred to by the gentleman from Montgomery would have precedence of the consideration of the matter now pending on the report of the Committee on Taxation. MR. SOLLIE—Does the Chair think it would have prece¬ dence when it was not called in order? If he had intended to insist upon that, it occurs to me that he should have called it to CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 977 the attention of the House when that order of business was reach¬ ed, and try permitting it to go over, and other business to inter¬ vene between it and now, he waives the right to insist upon it. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair does not think it amounts to a waiver. It is made a special order and the Chair should call it up without a motion, Mr. Jackson sought recognition. THE PRESIDENT—For what purpose does the gentleman rise? MR. JACKSON—I would respectfully state to the Chair that the delegates back here where I am, cannot even find out what is before the House. THE PRESIDENT—Delegates will please be in order. The Chair did not hear any disturbance of which the gentleman com¬ plains. MR. JACKSON—I desire to state that the talking back here in the cloak room, unless the door is closed, does disturb the del¬ egates back here. Perhaps it is not realized by the delegates who are nearer the Chair that we are disturbed, but it is a fact sir, that gentlemen talking back here in the cloak room does disturb the delegates sitting here around me. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will direct the doorkeeper to call the attention of the gentlemen in the cloak room that they are disturbing the delegates to such an extent that they are unable to hear the proceedings of the Convention. The Gentleman from Montgomery. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Mr. President, I regret very much that by a mistake of my own, as to the result of the vote on yesterday, I inadvertently made a vote which defeated the section I favored I shall not trespass upon the patience of my friends— MR. HARRISON—I desire to interrupt my friend, the chair¬ man of the Committee, to ask that the section be read. It is not printed in the report. MR. JONES—I will read it to the gentleman in the course of my remarks. MR. HARRISON—That will answer. MR. JONES—The section which was defeated, Mr. Presi¬ dent, was that offered by the delegate from Dallas, and reads as follows: Amend by adding as Section 31: In case any Sheriff or his deputy or any member of his posse be killed or permanently dis- 978 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS abled by discharging his duty in defending a prisoner in his charge, the General Assembly shall provide for the maintenance of those who are dependent upon the person killed or disabled. The gentleman from Dallas told me on yesterday, I do not see him in his seat this morning, that he had drawn this hastily, and that the committee could offer a substitute if his views were carried out. At the proper time that substitute will be offered, but now on the motion to reconsider, I do not think it proper to go into a mere matter of phraseology. I submit that after our decision on the other section of this article, if we vote down this proposed section that we put the State of Alabama fifty years backward in the march of civiliza¬ tion. We have said that prisoners should be defended and that there was a standard of honor in this State, that should make its protection worth something, to men whom it made helpless, when it took them into custody to try them for offenses against the laws. Now we only ask to add an effective help to the arm of the Sheriff. If we refuse to do it, it goes out to the world from this hall that we are simply playing with words; that we do not mean what we say. I trust no member of this convention will ever be put in the unfortunate attitude, where, in a matter in which he has not a particle of feeling, he must confront his neighbors and his best friends, and it may be to kill them, because the law of the land demands that he should rally to the protection of the Sheriff. It is one of the most disagreeable duties that ever falls to the lot of man. It is one from which every man instinctively shrinks. At the risk of being chai'ged with being egotistical—whether a man is egotistical or not he seldom knows—I want to illustrate my point by an incident that portrays more powerfully than any words of mine, what a drawback to the Sheriff and posse is the thought that if a man is killed in the discharge of his duty, and he is a poor man, that he may be buried at the expense of the county, and his family becomes dependent upon the charity of neighbors. I remember on one occasion being charged with a duty of this sort, and a handsome blue-eyed fellow, one of the manliest looking specimens I ever saw, faltered in his duty. In private I asked him why he did that. His manhood, his honor, and his name would have been eternally disgraced, if any eye but mine had seen him, when in a dark alley he skulked his duty. He said to me, I know it was wrong. I did not mind being hurt. I did not mind being killed, if I had to be killed; but I had an old widowed mother and two sisters, and I did not know what would become of them if I was hurt there. Their faces came before me as I was ordered on this duty, and it was dark and my courage failed me. That is the cause—not that I was unwilling to suffer wounds, and may be death, but I was unwilling to serve CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 979 the State that would send me out to death, and then not even pay my funeral expenses if I was killed. Now if we put this duty, and we put it rightfully, on the Sheriff, we have laid a moral command on him. We have fixed a high standard for him. Then for God’s sake, let us show that we are in earnest—that while the moral power of Alabama is behind the Sheriff, when he stands confronting a mob—that it is not an individual, not a mere Sheriff, but the State of Alabama, in all its majesty and power. I do not suppose there is a man here who has not in his veins the blood of some soldier, and there is not a civilized government on earth that does not think it is proper and wise, when a man dies and gives his life for it, to pay some attention to the wants of those whom he leaves behind him. I am not going to make a speech now. I am not going to trespass further on the patience of this House. I shall not say one word more than that this, that since this question has been brought up and afterwards laid upon the table it presents a great moral issue. MR. BULGER—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I will answer in a minute. I will answer the gentleman now. MR. BULGER—Would you mind reading the substitute that you propose to offer for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Dallas, provided this question is reconsidered? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Yes, I will read it with great pleasure; but I thought it was not entirely in order to be discuss¬ ing the substitute before the House had reconsidered. It would read this way: It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to make adequate provision for the dependent family of any Sheriff, deputy or member of any posse, who may be killed, or perma-i nently injured, while defending from mob violence any prisoner in jail, or in the custody of the law. Now, when I was interrupted, Mr. President, I was about to say that the action of this House is upon a question of great moral significance. If you vote this amendment down, after it has been offered, the world will rightly understand that Alabama hardly means what it says when it directs that prisoners be de¬ fended at all hazards, and I was about to add one word, in lines which are familiar to most of us, “Whether on scaffold high. Or on the battle’s van. The fittest place where man can die Is where he dies for man.” 980 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I do not want that sentiment voted down. I do not want the State to say that it will fail to reward such men. MR. MARTIN (Calhoun)—It has seemed to this convention in its wisdom that the government under such circumstances can institute impeachment proceedings against a sheriff of the State of Alabama. Whether this is a wise or unwise provision is not a question for discussion now. It is a part of your proposed funda¬ mental law. The amendment now proposed says, that if a sheriff of the State of Alabama lays down his life in defending a pris¬ oner, in defending those in the custody of the law, that the State of Alabama will provide foi those that look to him for support and protection. I most heartily favor this amendment. It is emi¬ nently just, it is eminently right. If the great State of Alabama says to one of her faithful officers, place yourself in front of that prisoner, defend his life as you would defend your own, defend his person as you would defend your owm—with the same breath that great State should declare if you go down to death in that undertaking, in vindicating my law, I will see to it that your wife and your children do not suffer, I will provide for them. I say again, it is eminently proper. It is wrong to mob a man, mob-law won’t do. A man is arrested, the great law that lays its hands upon him says, you are in my custody, and a hair of your head shall not be hurt until you have a fair trial, an impartial trial by a jury of the land. You put shackles upon his hands and upon his legs, and you place him in the custody of the law, and under the control of your officer, then gentlemen, if a band of men what you call a mob forms to release him from that officer, to take him when he is helpless, try him without court and without jury, without law and without evidence and punish him without delay and without mercy. It is wrong, and every time it is done it is proclaimed to the world that there is a power in this land greater than the law itself. Now Mr. President, it has been my fortune to know a great many sheriffs of the State of Alabama. I have known them long, I have known them well, I have known them from the blue mountains of Clay and Cleburne to the waters of the Tennessee. I declare today that a braver or a more self- sacrificing, more earnest band of officers exist not in this land than the sheriffs of the State of Alabama. They are nearly all men of families, they are poor men with few exceptions. They are dependent for their own support and the support of their fam¬ ilies upon their labor, upon the sweat of their brows. They do not belong to that class of citizens who accumulate money and build up fortunes, open-handed and generous they have a large circle of friends and great influence in their respective counties. Now gentlemen, if these men ever at times seem to falter in the presence of an infuriated and determined mob, it is not from cowardice, it is not from personal fear of death, it is not from dread of phy¬ sical suffering or pain, but ihat same noble, generous, warm-heart CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 981 that gives the great influence in their neighborhood and in their counties asserts itself in the presence of that mob and instinctively the thought arises in their minds: “if my life is lost here, who will provide for ni}^ wife and my children?” That thought, gentle¬ men of the convention, unnerves the arm, undermines the firm resolve, and is calculated to cause him to adopt more readily the argument “my resistance will accomplish nothing anyway.” But let the State of Alabama come to him and say in its great Con¬ stitution, we command you to defend that prisoner and vindicate the majesty of the law, and if you die we will provide for your family. Say that, and gentlemen the next man that is taken from the custody of the law and put to death by mob violence in all probability will be followed by two funerals, one will be that of the unfortunate and may be miserable victim, the other will be that of a brave sheriff who died in the discharge of his duty. I say it will stimulate the officers to the discharge of duty, and it will strike terror to the bosom and to the heart of the mob. Proclaim it, let us ])ass it, and when you say to the world that you demand the life of your sheriff in the vindication of the law, side by side wdth it let there be the proud declaration that the great State of Alabama will stand by his wife and his orphaned children, when he is gone. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I differ with the gentleman who have spoken on this question, who favor putting a premium on the discharge of official duty. I have not known of any instance in the State of Alabama where any man has been coerced into a race for sheriff. I have known of no force that the people have employed to bring out a candidate for that particular office. The office is open to any aspiring citizen of the State. The man who aspires to that office knows its solemn duties, he takes that man¬ tle upon his own shoulder when he does it, he does it as any other citizen assumes the duty of any other office. I am opposed to setting apart a salary for the sheriff to discharge his duty and then to say if you do it we will give you this— MR. WHITE—May I ask the gentleman a question? THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman permit himself to be interrupted? MR. HEFLIN—Certainly. MR. WHITE—When a man is summoned on a posse to go with a sheriff as I understand, the benefits are extended to him as well as to the sheriff. What is your answer to that? MR. HEFLIN—I think Mr. President, in a case like that it is the duty of any citizen of Alabama to go out and lose his life if need be to uphold the law and to save the life of a fellow citi¬ zen. Why, Mr. President, we say to the sheriff you shall have so much in fees, so much money will come to you in the office of 982 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS sheriff, now here is a man that the mob seeks, he is in your cus¬ tody, you hold this office of your own accord, it was a matter of choice with you, you get pay for your services, we say to you back yourself against that jail door, and if you get shot down we are going to give your wife and children so much allowance a year. If you say that, why not say to the solicitor when he is pros¬ ecuting the son of a prominent man and stands between the State of Alabama and the jury, and is undertaking fearlessly to discharge his duty, and say to him that if the brother or father of this man shoots you in the back while making your speech to the jury, we will set aside an allowance— MR. WHITE—Tell me how many solicitors have been shot in the back under circumstances of that sort? MR. HEFLIN—I have not heard of any, I will say to the gentleman from Jefferson. MR. BURNS—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a ques¬ tion? MR. HEFLIN—I will ask the gentleman how many sheriffs he has known of being killed defending a prisoner from mobs? MR. WHITE—We have never yet required them to do it until now, we have never required them to give up their lives or office in the discharge of their duty. MR. BURNS—I would like to ask the gentleman if he ever knew of a solicitor being shot in the back for his speech in the court house? MR. HEFLIN—No sir but I have heard criticisms upon so¬ licitors about discharging their duty. You might just as well go to the circuit court to the judge and say to him when prominent families are before the court that the Circuit Judge can charge the jury fearlessly and if anybody attacks you, we will pay for the attacks made. MR. BURNS—Did you ever hear of a mob attacking a judge? MR. HEFLIN I will state to my friend that I never heard of that either, Mr. President, but I am supposing cases, I am un¬ dertaking to answer the arguments of the gentleman, which I do not consider much argument. I have never heard, Mr. President, of anything of this sort being done. Why say to the sheriff here is an office that is open, here is a salary attached to it, you are a citizen of this country, you can aspire to that office, as you can to the office of probate judge, you take your choice. Here is a man who has committed an outrageous crime, he is in your custody back yourself against that jail door and let the howling mob de¬ stroy you, and if you are killed in the discharge of your duty, the General Assembly of Alabama will set aside a pension for your CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 983 offspring for the years to come. For what. For c^ing y- Mr. President, it is right for the sheriff to stand there and the prisoner, and a manly man will do it. It is nothing shor his duty, it is right without a premium, and right is right ana God is God. There is no use for this Convention to set apart here a pension for the discharge of duty on these lines, an i wi no set well upon the Constitution of the sovereign citizens of Ala¬ bama If you are going to do that say to the solicitor we are go- taTto rewlrd you, here is Bill Jones's son over here a Prom.nent man who killed a boy the other day. When you come to pros¬ ecute him and discharge your duty take off your gloves and ha him fearlessly before the jury, his brothers are blood-thirsty tel lows if they shoot you down in the discharge of your du y w i making your speech the General Assembly will provide for yoiii Sfspring, and we will set apart an amount to see that they are welf taken care of. Now we will go to one of these little stuck back in the jail. Why it will put the price of negroes above that before the war, it makes the negro more precious m the stand potL of dollars and dimes than he was away back yonder in the good old days of slavery. MR. BURNS—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. HEFLIN—Certainly. MR BURNS—Do you realize that there is a difference be¬ tween a brother of a fellow who commits a crime, and a mob. This article refers to a mob. A/TT? ITEFT IN_I will suggest to my friend the fellow s brother might be in the where he might be. ^ The duties of the of Teriff in ;ut'„f‘\'ob,l’tSic £nho£you don'. ^ ?andT„^Jir,‘“hrLT^nf.n„b .H y do^ rifmWy^T^'StrfVon, .i™e • i. already been adopted, and late to amend a c^tf Sf the other members the call for the previous question cuts from offering amendments. MR. COBB-The prevbus ptposWonT arc befor: SrSnvfn.lon Now!i propose ,0 amend the proposition of the gentleman from Montgomery. MR deGRAFFENRElD — I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is out of order because the delegate from Greene has never yielded the floor. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, the point is well taken. The gentleman from Greene was recognized and has never yielded the floor. MR COLEMAN (Greene)—I regret very much not having heard and gotten the benefit of the discussion on this question and I have hardly had time to mature in my mind what is right and proper or how this section should be framed. As it is, it seems to me there is no remedy at law; the iiarties cannot enforce any claim by any suit at law. It is left entirely to the discretion ot the Legislature. That is the way the reading of the section strikes me No remedy is given except such as the Legislature in the exercise of good judgment will give. They fix the compensation. How the Legislature is to arrive at proper compensation except by taking testimony of witnesses, how it is to take the testimony of witnesses of course would depend altogether upon legislation hereafter to be provided by the Legislature. The whole thing is a matter of legislation. If' it is the desire of the Convention to make compensation in the cases mentioned, it seems to me the organic law ought not to go further than to say that compensa¬ tion shall be made, and let the Legislature fix it.s own rules. There is no necessity really for any such provision in the organic law unless you see proper to assert it. I would like to hear this propo¬ sition discussed a little further before we come to a vote. MR. COBB—I offer an amendment. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—It was probably an oversight. But I rose to a point of order that the identical proposition has just been voted upon by the Convention, and there was no ruling upon the point of order. The point of order I make is this: As stated by the chairman of the committee, there was an original proposition. It was withdrawn by the mover by the unanimous consent of the Convention. Then the chairman of the committee offered this as a substitute. There was nothing before the Con¬ vention, but the substitute, and this Convention adopted the sub¬ stitute. Therefore, there is nothing to amend until you reconsider CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 997 the vote by which this substitute was adopted. I ask for a rulingf upon that point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state that the gentle¬ man is mistaken in saying- that the gentleman from Dallas asked unanimous consent to accept the substitute, and that it was ac¬ cepted by unanimous consent. The original section as offered by the gentleman from Dallas was pending, and while it would have been perfectly competent for the gentleman from Dallas, had he obtained unanimous consent, to accept the substitute, and the question would have then been as if the substitute had been the original proposition. But that was not the course pursued. The question was submitted on the adoption of the substitute for the section as proposed by the gentleman from Dallas and as the Chair understands all the parliamentary authorities hold that a substi¬ tute is simply a different form of amendment, and when adopted it is adopted as an amendment and the question recurs on the sec¬ tion as amended. The scope of the amendment, the fact that it strikes out all or a small part or all but the enacting clause, or all but one syllable, it seems to the Chair does not change the prin¬ ciple. It is an amendment notwithstanding, and the question would recur upon the section as amended. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Suppose it strikes out every¬ thing, then what? THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that the prin¬ ciple would be the same. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Did not the gentleman from Dallas ask to withdraw his original proposition and accept the substitute? THE PRESIDENT—In the confusion incident to the consid¬ eration of the question the gentleman from Dallas walked up near to the gentleman from Montgomery and made some statement and a point of order was made against his right to debate and the Chair stated nothing at all to the Convention. MR. JONES—I beg Lo remind the Chair that in the opening remarks of the Chairman of the committee, he stated that on yes¬ terday his friend from Dallas in the hurry of preparation had not gotten the exact language that he wanted, and he authorized me to say he preferred the substitute I had drawn up. I stated that in my opening argument and the gentleman from Dallas will con¬ firm it. MR. PRESIDENT—If the gentleman made that statement, and the Chair has no doubt that he did, the Cliair will overrule the point of order of the delegate from Talladega. MR. COBB—To show that the gentleman from Montgomery was not understood, as he states it, I have been voting upon the 998 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS idea that both propositions were before this Convention. I am opposed to the whole of it, but I prefer the proposition of the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery to the proposition of the gentleman from Dallas. Now as to my amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will suspend until the amendment is read. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point. MR. CUNNINGHAM — The Chair holds that the original proposition offered by the gentleman from Dallas is an amend¬ ment to the report of the Executive Committee. He further holds that the substitute offered by the Chairman of the committee is an amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Dallas. I therefore make the point of order that further amend¬ ment is out of order. THE PRESIDENT—That point of order would have been well taken had it been proposed before the amendment of the gentleman from Montgomery was adopted. But after the adop¬ tion of the amendment the Chair understands the section is still open to further amendment. If an amendment is adopted to a section, that does not cut off further amendment. MR. BURNS—I rise to a question of inquiry. Did or did not the distinguished Chairman of that committee move the adoption of the section as amended and call for the previous question? THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman did not. The amendment of the delegate from Macon was read as fol¬ lows ; Strike out the words “it shall be the duty” and insert “it shall be in the power of the General Assembly.” MR. COBB—The proposition offered by the gentleman from Montgomery is in my opinion misleading. It has been asserted, perhaps by himself, that his proposition left it entirely with the Legislature to create this pension or not and yet in reading his amendment it is mandatory on the Legislature. They cannot neglect to perform that which in the Constitution is denominated a duty upon them. Therefore, if it is desired by the Convention to leave this question of establishing a civil pension list to the Legislature, my amendment should be adopted. MR. HINSON—What would be the effect of your amend¬ ment? MR. COBB To leave the whole question to the Legislature. MR. HINSON—Would it really have any effect? MR. COBB It would leave it to the Legislature. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 999 MR. HINSON—Has not the Legislature already that power? MR. COBB—I think so, and I am going to make that argu¬ ment against the whole proposition. The gentleman anticipates me. I was attempting to reinforce the strong argument made by the gentleman from Greene that this is a matter wholly unsuited to go into the Constitution as a part of the organic law. The whole question is in the power of the Legislature to deal with, and I object here and now as I have objected before, to putting in this organic law, matters which are now and will remain en¬ tirely within the powers and purview of the Legislature of the State. Mr. President, it fatigues me to hear men get upon the floor, as they have done from time to time, and talk abou the Legisla¬ ture doing nothing and that it will do nothing, you cannot get them to do anything, that tney are subjected to this influence and that influence. I would like to ask what right have we to ar¬ rogate to ourselves superior virtue. We are the representatives of the people and nothing more. The Legislature is composed of representatives of the people and nothing more. If half that has been said upon this floor with regard to the Legislature be true, we had better despair of representative government in the State of Alabama. The Legislature comes from the people. The legislators are supposed to represent the wishes of the people. They represent th.e power of the people, and if, from time to time, as has been asserted here, Legislatures assemble who are subjected to bribery and to influences in the nature of a bribery, and who do nothing in the interests of the people, then what be¬ comes of our boasted institution of representative government? Mr. President, I do not propose to make any argument in extenso in regard to this proposition more than that. I would like if time were not pressing, to answer some of the questions that have been propounded upon this floor. Delegates have asked the question, what is the difference between pensioning the sol¬ dier who gave his life for his country and pensioning a Sheriff who gave his life for his country, and my friend in an ex cathedra style asks who has said anything about policemen, when some¬ thing was said about pensioning them. The fact that nothing is said about policemen is all the worse for his proposition. The policemen of the city of Montgomery are in more danger every night that passes than any Sheriff of Alabama was ever in from any organized mob, MR. BURNS—Has any ordinance been framed for this Con¬ stitution that policemen should lay down their lives in discharge of their duty? MR. COBB—No sir; no ordinance is required to make a po¬ liceman lay down his life in the discharge of his duty, and no 1000 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ordinance is required to make a Sheriff lay down his life, if need be, in the discharge of his duty. He takes the office cum onere. So does the policeman, and if in the discharge of duty he must sacrifice his life, it is duty he is performing for which we are not called upon as a government to compensate him in the way of a pension. MR. BURNS — Will the gentleman answer the question I propounded? MR. COBB—I have answered it. MR. CARNATHAN—I rise to a point of order. The gen¬ tleman is out of his seat, (indicating the delegate from Dallas.) MR. COBB—I rose from my seat and I walked here. I will answer any question that the gentleman asks. A policeman is a quasi State officer, just as much a subject for pension by the State as a Sheriff. Now in answer to the other question as to the soldier. The concensus of opinion of the United States has heretofore been and continues to be, that we should make a broad line of de- markation between a military pension and a civil pension list. The Government of the United States, as liberal as it has been in pensioning people, and you know how liberal it has been, and so do I— MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman from Macon allow me to ask him a question? MR. COBB—Certainly. MR. WHITE—Does the United States pension judges of its courts after they have lived seventy years and served twenty years ? MR. COBB—They do not. SEVERAL DELEGATES—They do. MR. COBB—The United States Government provides that when a United States Judge has served a certain length of time and has reached a certain age, he may voluntarily retire under full pay. That is quite different from a pension. There is no pension civil list in the United States except per¬ haps in one instance. Cong less has passed a law that if a Presi- dent or an ex-President dies, his widow may receive so much money during her life. That I conceive to be in the nature of a civil pensio^ but it is very restricted, it stops there, with the widow of a President, or ex-President, and that is only because of the great dignity of this high office. Beyond that there is not a single provision m the laws of the United States for a civil pen¬ sion list. ^ CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1001 In answer to my friend from Jefferson I would say to my certain knowledge and to the knowledge of my friend, Governor Oates, effort was made in the Congress of the United States to pension the family of Chief Justice Waite and it failed overwhelm¬ ingly. Is not that so? MR. OATES—It is. MR. COBB—And every effort that has been made in that body to begin the organization of a civil pension list has failed, and mainly for the reason that when you begin this civil pension list there is no end to it, there is no stoppage. You cannot say “thus far and no further,” because the argument will come and it will be overwhelming, that if the family of this civil officer is pensioned, the family of that civil officer should be pensioned, and strong rea.sons will be urged. Therefore I repeat the Government of the United States has hitherto steered clear of the establish¬ ment of a civil pension list. Now as to the necessity, I want to ask my friends here who are so earnest upon these propositions, to tell me whether or not the sheriffs of the State of Alabama have hitherto failed to do their duty? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Are you asking me? MR. COBB—Yes, you. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Yes, in several instances. There was a case in Elmore County where the military were run around for four or five miles to keep them away from the mob. There have been lots of cases where the sheriffs have failed to do their duty, not through cowardice, but becau.se they felt it was morally wrong to defend some worthless prisoner. MR. PARKER (Elmore) — I want to ask the gentleman from Montgomery a question. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Macon has the floor. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I will ask the delegate from Ma- can the question and the gentleman from Montgomery can an¬ swer it. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Macon yield to the question? MR. COBB—Oh, yes. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—Was it not the fault of the mili¬ tary, and were they not led around purposely by the Sheriff and didn’t they fail to do their duty on that occasion? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I don’t understand how. 1002 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. COBB—Whether the military were not misled by the Sheriff running around? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If the Sheriff, when the life of his prisoner was at stake, deluded the strong arm of the law and led the military on the wrong trail, what was that but the fault of the Sheriff? MR. COBB—This is not my fight. The question I want to ask the gentleman from Montgomery is this. Do you know of a single instance in the State of Alabama where a Sheriff stood up to his duty that he was ever interferred with by a mob? MR. JONES — I do not believe I do, except in a case the other day in Huntsville where the Sheriff stood with his pistol and the mob would not face him, but smoked him out with chemi¬ cals; and one other Sheriff in Jefferson County was assaulted by an armed mob and he killed and wounded about forty and no mob has ever been around that jail since. MR. COBB—Therefore when the Sheriff does his duty, the mob retires. MR. WALKER — And I desire to state that the Sheriff of Madison County is not an applicant for a pension. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—And I desire to state that the Sheriff of that county is not dead, and it is not a question of what ought to be done for his widow or dependent children if he had been killed. THE PRESIDENT—Does the delegate from Macon con sent to be interrupted? MR. COBB—I do. There were no further questions. The PRESIDENT—The gentleman will proceed. MR. COBB I never talk without I think I have something to say, others may not agree with me, but at all events, I want to get through with this business. There is a sentiment prevail¬ ing in the State of Alabama and in every other State in the American nation and in all civilized governments that the walls of a jail should be, as against illegal entrance from without, as strong as adamant although made of gossimer, and that senti- ment has a deterrent effect upon any mob that ever assembled. Whenever the Sheriff does his duty, the history of this State is to the effect that the mob after making some show, retires. They ri! "f^^sic and hence, I repeat, as against mob vio- ence, the Sh^iff is m less danger than a policeman in Montgom¬ ery every night. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1003 MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. COBB—Yes. MR. WHITE—If the mob retires, will we have to pay any pension? MR. COBB—No, sir; and if he does his duty they will retire without having before his eyes the question of a pension or not. I have heard, and you have heard, Mr. President, and all of us of the killing of Sheriffs by desperate men whom they were attempt¬ ing to arrest. That occurs frequently. Are you going to pension a Sheriff because a desperado he is attempting to arrest kills him? MR. HINSON—I would like to ask the gentleman a question. THE PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman yield for the in¬ terrogatory? MR. COBB—I hate not to do it—oh, go on. MR. HINSON—Does the sheriff get any financial benefit from arresting the man? MR. COBB—Yes. MR. HINSON—Does he when he is defending the prisoner? MR. COBB—Certainly, the same. MR. HINSON—How? MR. COBB—I will show you if you give me time. MR. BURNS—^Will the gentleman let me ask a question? MR. COBB—One at a time gentleman. The Sheriff of the county gets no special benefit from arresting prisoners. He gets |2.50 and he gets about the same amount or more for keeping his prisoner in the jail, and where is the difference when it comes to pay? The Sheriff receives pay which the law considers adequate taking into consideration all the risks of his work. But to come back to the question, the main question is the establishment in the State of Alabama, for the first time in its history, of a civil pension list. MR. BAREFIELD—I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Macon on the table. MR. COBB—I have not yielded the floor. MR. FOSTER—I make the point of order that he has spoken thirty minutes. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair understood that the dele¬ gate from Macon had yielded the floor and recognized the gen- 1004 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tleman from Monroe and he moves to lay the amendment of the delegate from Macon on the table. MR. JONES—I hope chat the gentleman will not insist on that. While the gentleman from Macon is on the other side, he has taken up about two-thirds of his time answering questions which have been propounded to him, MR. OATES—I did not understand the Chair to recognize the gentleman from Monroe for any such purpose, THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Monroe moved— MR. OATES—I did not understand the Chair recognized him for the purpose of making that motion. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair did not recognize him for any special purpose, and the Chair did not know he was going to make that motion. Does the gentleman consent to withdraw the motion ? MR, BAREFIELD—No sir. We have taken up enough time already, Mr. President, and I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Macon on the table. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—We demand the ayes and noes on that proposition. THE PRESIDENT—The question is, is the call sustained? The requisite number rising, the call was sustained. MR. JACKSON—There has been so much discussion, we would like to hear the amendment read again. The amendment was read as follows: Strike out the words “it shall be the duty’' and insert “it shall be in the power of the General Assembly." THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion made by the gentleman from Monroe to lay the amendment of the gen¬ tleman from Macon upon the table. Those in favor of tabling the amendment will say aye, and those opposed no, as their names are called. Ashcraft, Banks, Barefield, Beddow, Blackwell, Brooks, Burnett, Burns, AYES Byars, Carmichael, of Coffee, Case, Cunningham, deGraffenreid, Duke, Eyster, Fitts, Foster, Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Grayson, Hinson, Hood, Howell, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 IMS Jackson, Morrisette, Smith, Mac. A., J enkins, Mulkey, Sorrell, Jones, of Montgomery, Norman, Spears, Jones, of Wilcox, Norwood, Thompson, Knight, O'Rear, Watts, Kyle, Palmer, Weakley, Leigh, Parker (Cullman), White, Macdonald, Pettus, Whiteside, McMillan (Baldwin), Porter, Willet, McMillan (Wilcox), Reynolds (Chilton), Williams (Marengo), Malone, Rogers (Lowndes), Wilson (Washington), Martin, Selheimer, NOES Winn. TOTAL 60. Messrs. President, Glover, O’Neill (Jefferson), Altman, Grant, Opp, Bartlett, Greer, of Calhoun, Parker (Elmore), Beavers, Haley, Pearce, Bethune, Handley, Phillips, Boone, Harrison, Pillans, Browne, Heflin, of Chambers, Pitts, Bulger, Heflin, of Randolph, Proctor, Cardon, Henderson, Reynolds (Henry), Carmichael, of Colbert, Howze, Robinson, Carnathon, Inge, Rogers (Sumter), Chapman, Jones, of Bibb, Samford, Cobb, Jones, of Hale, Sanders, Cofer Kirk, Sanford, Coleman, of Greene, Kirkland, Searcy, Coleman, of Walker, Locklin, Smith (Mobile), Cornwall, Long (Walker), Sollie, Craig, Merrill, Spragins, Davis, of DeKalb, Miller (Marengo), Vaughan, Dent, Miller (Wilcox), Waddell, Espy, Moody, Walker, Ferguson, Murphree, Weatherly, Fletcher, Oates, Williams (Barbour), Foshee, Freeman, O'Neal (Lauderdale), Wilson (Clarke), TOTAL—73. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Almon, Long (Butler), Sentell, Davis, of Etowah, Lowe (Jefferson), Sloan, Eley, Lowe (Lawrence), Smith, Morgan M.,. Greer, of Perry, Maxwell, Stewart, Hodges, NeSmith, Studdard, King, Reese, Tayloe, Ledbetter, Lomax, Renfro, Williams (Elmore), 1006 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. WEATHERLY—Now I move to lay the origfinal sec¬ tion, the substitute and the amendment, on the table. MR. JONES—On that I ask the aye and no vote. The call for the ayes and noes was sustained. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I desire to submit a few remarks to the main question. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Jefferson moves to lay upon the table, which would not be debatable. The mo¬ tion is to lay the original section, as amended, and the proposed amendment upon the table. As many as favor the motion to table will vote aye, and those opposed will vote no, as their names are called. During roll call, Mr. Jackson asked unanimous consent to explain his vote, to which objection was made. AYES Messrs, President, Greer, of Calhoun, Parker (Elmore), Altman, Haley, Pearce, Bethune, Handley, Phillips, Boone, Harrison, Pillans, Bulger, Heflin, of Randolph, Pitts, Cardon, Heflin, of Chambers, Reynolds (Henry), Carmichael, of Colbert, Henderson, Robinson, Carnathan, Howze, Rogers (Sumter), Chapman, Inge, Samford, Cobb, Jones, of Bibb, Sanders, Gofer, Jones, of Hale, Searcy, Coleman, of Greene, Kirk, Smith (Mobile), Coleman, of Walker, Kirkland, Sollie, Craig, Locklin, Spragins, Davis, of DeKalb, Long (Walker), Vaughan, Dent, Merrill, Waddell, Duke, Miller (Wilcox), Walker, Espy, Moody, Weatherly, Ferguson, Oates, Williams (Barbour), Fletcher, O’Neal (Lauderdale), Wilson (Clarke), Glover, Opp, NOES total—62. Almon, Brooks, Cunningham, Ashcraft, Browne, deGraffenreid, IBanks, Burnett, Eyster, Barefield, Burns, Fitts, Bartlett, Byars, Foshee, Beavers, Carmichael, of Coffee, Foster, Beddow, Case, Freeman, Blackwell, Cornwall, Gilmore, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1007 Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Grayson, Hinson, Hood, Howell, Jackson, Jenkins, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Kyle, Leigh, Macdonald, McMillan (Baldwin), McMillan (Wilcox), Malone, Martin, Miller (Marengo), Morrisette, Mulkey, Murphree, Norman, Norwood, O’Neill (Jefferson), O’Rear, Palmer, Parker (Cullman), Pettus, Porter, Proctor, Reynolds (Chilton), Rogers (Lowndes), Sanford, Selheimer, Sloan, Smith, Mac. A., Sorrell, Spears, Thompson, Watts, Weakley, White, ' Whiteside, Willet, Williams (Marengo), Wilson (Washington), Winn, TOTAL—73. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING Davis, of Etowah, Eley, Greer, of Perry, Hodges, King, Ledbetter, Lomax, Long (Butler), Lowe (Jefferson), Lowe (Lawrence), Maxwell, NeSmith, Reese, Renfro, Sentell, Smith, Morgan M., Stewart, Studdard, Tayloe, Williams (Elmore), MR. SOLLIE—I have an amendment. MR. deGRAFFENRElD—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman cannot introduce an amendment to the amendment. THF PRESIDENT — The Chair recognized the gentleman from Montgomery. MR. OATES~Mr. President, I have observed closely the temper and disposition of the delegates in this Convention every day since it has been in session, and I never saw in all of my ex¬ perience a body of men who thought for themselves more com¬ pletely than this. No man is a leader here. All think for them¬ selves, and there is an amount of independence which character¬ ized their voting which is highly commendable, for in nearly ev¬ ery deliberative body, a good number have their file leaders and follow them. They acquire that habit. If they do not have it at first, as soon as they become acquainted with each other, it re¬ sults. Now, I am persuaded that this case is somewhat exceptional. On Saturday my colleague and esteemed friend, the Chairman of the Committee on Executive Department, made a remarkably able 1008 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and feeling speech in favor of the thirtieth section in regard to the duties of sheriffs to resist mobs and to protect prisoners, I felt considerably moved by that speech myself. I believe that I know my friend well, and there is no man more honest or sympa¬ thetic, or more enthusiastic. Wherever he believes his duty leads him, than that gentleman. I know full well, too, the opposition which he felt during his administration of the office of C^ief Ex¬ ecutive, and has ever since, to mobs, and the outrageous slaughter of prisoners, taken from the custody of the sheriff or his posse, and I sympathize with that sentiment. It is a great evil in Ala¬ bama, which ought to be put down, and sheriffs, their deputies and their posses, ought to be encouraged to manfully resist such lawless procedure. I was heartily in favor of the proposition coming from the Committee of which my friend is the distinguished Chairman, and voted cheerfully for it. The language which I will call to the attention of delegates is as follows: “Whenever any prisoner is taken from the jail or from the custody of the sheriff or his deputy, and put to death, or suffers grievous bodily harm, owing to the neglect, connivance, cow¬ ardice or other grave fault of the sheriff, such sheriff may be im¬ peached under Section 2 of Article VII of the Constitution ; and the Governor when satisfied, after hearing the sheriff, that he should be impeached, may suspend him from office for such time as he may think proper, until the impeachment proceedings are fully disposed of.” Now, sir, when my friend was dwelling upon that, he over¬ drew the matter to this Convention, and drew a more vivid pic¬ ture than the situation justified, because of his extraordinary earnestness. A man of high courage, erects an equally high stand¬ ard for every sheriff in the land, and it was but natural in him, full of courage, to erect such a standard. On the other hand, when he thinks of that sheriff being killed, to turn in sympathy to his bereaved family is but natural, for another characteristic of the distinguished gentleman, with all of his high courage, is that his heart is as tender as that of a "woman. But, sir, we are dealing with solid propositions, to be embraced in the fundamental law of Alabama, which may stand, and I hope will stand, for fifty years to come. Is there anything in this which requires the sheriff or his deputy, or any member of his posse, to uselessly sacrifice his life? What is the language where he gives up his prisoner, “owing to the neglect, connivance, or cowardice, or other grave fault of the sheriff. Suppose he is not guilty of either of these. Now, any sheriff who would be guilty of either one of these derilictions ought to be dealt with by the Governor, and a just Governor yrould, in the discharge of his duty, when he looked into it order CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1009 I will his impeachment, if he found that such officer were guilty ot such that he found that the sheriff, while ^ defended the jail, and said, “stand back, do not come, and oeal from the conviction of the was a very noted case three times. Three ne- prisoners caine to the S P ^ ^ groes had tnuraerea a + 1 ,^ and a mob was orgranized of rested and ^‘^^’'‘'^^ifrmed^who went to the jail and demanded a hundred nien, well armea, four men to assist the prisouer. The ?>>«■«.J'^ ^ut three^or ^^^y^.^arred him, hearing of their comi g> . . the sheriff told uuUer“us, but if you uudertake to break this door 1010 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS we will kill as many of you as we can. I will order you fired up¬ on, and my assistants will do it.” They backed out, the whole hundred, and retired. Well the negroes were tried time and again; the Supreme Court gave them new trials upon technicalities and finally they were executed. Now, sir, a sheriff has only to be firm. Not connive at things of that sort, and not be guilty of any fault, but stand firmly by his duty, taking sufficient precaution in summoning courageous men to assist him, and he will not be killed, and his prisoner will not be killed, but too many, anxious to be on what they consider the popular side, and in the popular indignity towards the pris¬ oner and desire to sacrifice him, the Sheriff conceives that to be the popular side, and having personally no sympathy whatever w'ith the prisoner, but only a duty to perform, he does not perform it. but winks at being overcome and the keys are wrested from him, and the jail opened, or the prisoner wrested from him if not in jail. That is the sort of deriliction in the Sheriff that is aimed at in this provision, and if he is guilty of it, and is not in the per¬ formance of his duty, he ought to be impeached. He is an officer of the law. He sought the office and swore to perform its duties. That is no unreasonable requirement of him. As such is the fact, I ask delegates to consider what they are doing. Are you going to incorporate into the fundamental law, to remain probably for fifty years, that the families of any Sheriff or deputy, or any of his posse, who get killed in persisting a mob, are to be compensated by the Legislature? Gentleman it reminds me of a law that was passed in 1868, by what was known as the Carpet-bag Legislature. We had some Ku Klux about then, and it was said they killed several people, but I never be¬ lieved it. I never had any respect for them, because I regarded them as utterly inefficient for not killing some people they al¬ lowed to escape. That Legislature enacted a law that wherever any one was killed mysteriously, where they did not know who did it, that the county should be liable to the widow of the slain. She could sue the county and recover large damages so as to make the people very vigilant in ferreting out such violations of the law. Well, sir, that excited contempt for the authorities who enacted it of all our best people, and as soon as they got an op¬ portunity it was wiped out. Now, sir, I do not intend to characterize this pending propo¬ sition by any such language as that. It is well intended by my eloquent and learned friend from Montgomery. It is well in¬ tended by the gentlemen who have voted for it. It is in a spirit, they believe, of true kindness, to be extended to the bereaved of any officer who is killed, but do you not know, gentlemen, has not experience taught you, that if such be the law, every time that anything can be attributed to such a cause, where there is any ten- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1011 dency tending to show that a man has lost his life in that way, the play will be made before the Legislature as to how much mon¬ ey will be appropriated? Now, gentlemen, if any man should lose his life in that man¬ ner, no one would sympathize with his family more than I would, but to incorporate such a provision into the fundamental law is a departure from anything wc have ever had in it. It is dangerous. You cannot tell, nor can I, what is coming in the future. I will ask you this question, will it add anything to the performance of their duties on the part of sheriffs? Will it, or not? I pre¬ sume that none of them would seek death in order that their families might be rewarded by the Legislature. I would not sup¬ pose they would be that reckless. Will they not perform their duties just as well without any such provision? And is there any¬ thing extraordinary in the requirement of them which has been adopted by this Convention? Nothing in the world. It is simply a requirement, in plain language, that the sheriffs and their offi¬ cers, shall do their duty in respect to prisoners in their custody. Then why this extraordinary proposition? Is it wholly unneces¬ sary. It is dangerous to put it in the fundamental law, where it cannot be changed except by a vote of the whole State. We had better leave that out, and leave in the provision already adopted to govern sheriffs in the performance of their duties. There is nothing in it that will stimulate sheriffs to recklessly sacrifice their lives. He simply must do his duty, and when he does that, no Governor is going to impeach him. If the mob overpowers him, breaks the jail, taikes out his prisoner and puts him to death, it will not be his fault. The question primarily to be considered by the Governor, who must initiate the action towards his im¬ peachment, is, did you strive to do your duty, and the Governor can receive evidence to determine that proposition. If he did not, what ought the Governor to do? He ought certainly to or- der’his impeachment, and then try it before our highest court, and if guiltless he would be acquitted. So there is nothing in any aspect of the case to require a man unnecessarily to sacrifice lives. He is not in the attitude of the soldier. My friend has eloquently said that it was the duty of the soldier to put on the garb and stand at his post and die there in obedience to orders. I have no doubt but my friend is gallant enough to execute such an or¬ der, but a soldier is a man who is under the orders of his su¬ periors all the time, and the excellence of a soldier is the obedience to orders. The Sheriff is the man who orders. He is the Cap¬ tain. He is the man to exercise the discretionary power. Gentlemen, it is unnecessary for me to add to what my friend and former comrade in the Congress of the United States, the delegate from Macon, has well said. The question has often been presented in the Congress of the United States, a body that is the most liberal of any in the world in granting pensions to soldiers 1012 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and to their widows and children, but as he truly stated, it has never gone a single step in the direction of a civil list, though the power that has been brought to bear to influence members thus to act has been very great. The single exception is the provision for the widow of President Garfield, who was slain, and I will state my recollection is, though I may be wrong in it, I do not think that is a general law, applicable to the widows of the Presidents. That was an exceptional case, as you will know, and I believe that is what influenced Congress to pass that act. Gentlemen, it is always, in private life and in public affairs, disagreeable to me to differ with my friend over there, because the personal relations between us are so remarkably kind, and I hope ever will be, but here is a solemn duty we all have. I see it quite differently from what my friend does, and differently from those gentlemen who I think in the first place were largely in¬ fluenced by his remarkable speech uttered on Saturday afternoon about the duties of sheriffs, comparing them to soldiers who in the estimation of my friend are very much like the French Mar¬ shall, who, when surrounded with enemies and they demanded his surrender, said a French Marshall dies but never surrenders. That is too high a standard to erect for the sheriffs of the counties of this State. Direct what is his duty, and if he is overpowered, that is all that is required of him, nothing more. Now, Mr. President, again returning my thanks to the Con¬ vention for their patience in hearing what I had to say, I will conclude my remarks by asking gentlemen to think well over this matter: whether they have voted one way or the other. There is too much independence, too much intelligence, too much high character among the delegates on this floor to consider or refuse to consider a proposition on account of pride of opinion. Consider it, gentlemen, and see that you are not making a mistake, before you act in regard to it. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I would like to make a privi¬ leged motion. We adjourn until 3. I move that we adjourn until 3:15, so that we can get the two hours. We are now late. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Montgomery moves to suspend the rules and fix the time of meeting this eve¬ ning at 3:15. MR. BAREFIELD—I move to amend by making it 4. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I want to amend the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery so that we may remain in session until 6. There were expressions of dissent. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I withdraw my motion. CONvSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1013 THE PRESIDENT—Does the g^entleman accept the amend¬ ment? MR. JONES—No, sir. Upon a vote being’ taken the motion was lost. After announcement of Committee meetings, the leaves of absence granted Mr. Cofer and Mr. O’Neal (Lauderdale) for to¬ day were withdrawn by their request. Thereupon the Convention adjourned until 3 p.m. AFTERNOON SESSION The Convention was called to order by the President, and the roll being called showed the presence of 105 delegates. Leave of absence was granted Mr. Beaver for the afternoon. Mr. Coleman of Greene and Mr. Jones of Montgomery both endeavored to obtain recognition from the Chair. The Chair recognized the gentleman from Montgomery, who yielded to the gentleman from Greene. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President and delegates to the Convention. A delegate very frequently feels embarrassed in rising' to epcpress his opinion upon any subject when there is manifest impatience to hear him, and especially is this rnore so with me when I have not perfect confidence in my own judgment and conclusions. Nevertheless, upon a question so grave, as the one now before us for consideration, I feel I would not do my duty unless I urged the objections I have to the adoption not only ot the amended resolution, but of any resolution or ordinance upon this subject. We have had Constitutions in this State, six or eight, or perhaps seven, I don’t remember exactly the number. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I do not want to interrupt the gentleman, but we cannot hear him at all. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I don’t know that the delegates will miss a great deal. I know of no similar provision in the Constitution of any other State Certainly nothing similar has been introduced into the organic law of the State of Alabama, and we have lived and done fairly well under most adverse conditions that a State was ever subjected to. The section preceding Giis which provides for the impeachment of a Sheriff, arms the Executive with all the oower he wants. This adds nothing to the Executive power. It is a legislative provision entirely for the benefit of the Sheriff ^d is out of place in my opinion under the head of the Executive De- partment. 1014 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS But independent of that, the reading of the original section and the reading of the amendment as adopted, and which is now the section before this Convention, seems to me to be wanting in definiteness and position. It says “adequate” provision shall be made for the family of a Sheriff who may be killed in defending a prisoner. If I should take a poll of all the delegates here and ask each one what is meant by “adequate” what would be the answers? There would probably be as many answers as those given separately. But a law has to be defined and fixed. And I notice there is no limit whatever put upon the amount to be paid. We know that in assessing damages frequently for the loss of a man just compensation, which I think would be a better term, juries range from two to forty thousand dollars. There is nothing in this provision whatever that puts any limit upon the power of the Legislature to make such appropriations as it sees proper to come up to the standard of adequacy. I fear that the delegates sometime have their judgments moved by the appeals made and the citing of certain extreme instances, some of those alluded to by the delegate from Montgomery. There is nothing better es¬ tablished in law than extreme cases make shipwreck of great prin¬ ciples of law and justice. Whenever you are moved by an appeal because of the hardship of a particular case from providing for the general good, it is not wise legislation, much Ips should it be m the organic law of a State. And what necessity is there for it. The Legislature is fully competent to devise ways and means and to make appropriations as they arise if it is necessary, and ^ believe the delegates to this Convention will bear with me that we are losing sight of the organic law, a law which is to control legislation, a law which is to confer privileges and place limita¬ tions upon the powers which they exert and not the granting of legislation itself. Now I ask the delegates to consider what is to be effected by putting into the organic law a provision that the Legislature shall make adequate provision for the families of those who are killed in defense of a prisoner. The words are “in defense, whether justified or not, and then comes the question of adequacy, undefined as it is, ranging from one price to another perhaps, according to the families and according to the efficiency of the Sheriff. MR. BOONE—Don’t you think that word “adequate” would cover as much as the man was fairly making? Say he was making $100 a month, that he was making and providing that much money per month to his family, would not that make at least $100 a month ? MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I don’t think “adequate” would, but I would think “just compensation” would. “Adequate” is I believe proper return for the purpose intended. That is the gen- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1015 eral signification of the word adequacy as I remember. Compen¬ sation is to reimburse for the loss sustained. That is about the way the two words run. But delegates in framing laws should know exactly what words they are using because when the courts come to construe them or the Legislature comes to apply the law, each one will have his own opinion as to what was intended by ‘‘just compensation” or “adequate provision” unless defined by law and whether that relates to one member of the family or the entire family, is wholly indefinite. But it is legislation. It is forgetting the purpose for which this Convention assembled and traveling into the domain of purely legislative matters. That is the most serious objection to it, and that is an objection, it seems to me, that ought to be raised to every resolution or ordinance introduced here which ought not to be in the organic law, for under our system the Legislature has all power except where it is limited by the Constitution itself. Many instances have been stated of heroic venture by the of¬ ficers of the State. If it will serve any purpose I can give one from my own county, perhaps unparalleled in the State of Ala¬ bama, There was a prisoner committed to the Sheriff of Greene County and placed in jail. Just about daylight a body of men appeared apparently with a prisoner and told the jailer they had a prisoner to be placed in jail and thus induced him to open the doors. When they entered their wants and desires were manifest. They took the prisoner which the jailer already had in jail, who was charged with a heinous offense, and started away with him to take him to the scene of his crime, and hang him. The jailer notified the Sheriff and by sun-up the Sheriff was on horseback with three or four of his men. The party was overtaken at day¬ break near Eutaw and there they halted. The Sheriff den^nded of them the prisoner. They declined to surrender him. He or¬ dered his men to present arms, and they did so. He notified the crowd if they did not give him the prisoner he would fire into the body, large as it was. He told them he was the Sheriff and represented the State of Alabama. And although they were brave men they would not resist the State of Alabama, and they sur¬ rendered the negro and he brought him back and put him in jail again. That is a real instance. There is very little danger if the Sheriff is at all brave and prudent Representing the State of Alabama, he is vested with all the power that it is possible to invest a man with, ^^o man dare resist him and no man dare refuse to obey when he summons him as a posse. Now it might be if that man had been killed the State of Alabama ought to have taken care of his family. B^ut it shows there is not much danger where a man is prudent and brave and is acting in the name of the State and asserting the authority of the State. 1016 OFFICIAL PR()CFFDIN(;s But independent of all that, this is pure legislation and not properly connected with the Executive Department of the State. You have armed the Executive officers of the State with all the power you desire. The Sheriff must act up to his duty or he may be impeached or removed and that is sufficient for the executive power to see that the laws are carried out. I speak with a proper sense of my own inability, but with a deep sense that we are doing wrong to load this Constitution with legislative enactments and I oppose every movement of that kind. MR. DENT—I sympathize very much with the purpose of those who are favoring this ordinance but there is one view of it which they present which I have not heard combatted by those who are opposing it and that is this: It seems to be taken for granted that new duties and res])onsibilities have been placed upon the Sheriff. Now I do not understand the provisions that have been adopted. It would certainly be the duty of the Sheriff under the present Constitution to do all in his power to protect the life and person of a prisoner in his charge. A DELEGATE—No. MR, DENT—I think it is and for that reason it seems to me there is no new duty. He is Sheriff and that is his obligatSonj when he enters upon the duties of that office. It seems to me the only difference is that we have provided a new court for his im¬ peachment and trial. As I understand the provisions of the old Constitution a Sheriff could be tried before a Circuit or Cit}^ Court. This Constitution, if adopted, provides that he can be tried by the Supreme Court of the State. Sheriffs under the old Consti¬ tution were liable to impeachment for wilful neglect of duty, cor¬ ruption in office, habitual drunkenness, incompetency or any of¬ fense involving moral turpitude. It seems to me that that covers the matter. The new question which has been added under the present Constitution, and while I do not object to it, I think it probably em])hasizes the duty of the Sheriff, does not seem to me to place any new duty or any new responsibility upon him and if that is the case, I cannot see why there should be an exception made in his favor, that we should grant his family or himself this remuneration for a faithful and earnest discharge of the duties which it seems to me rests upon him now. That is all I desire to say, and that is the reason I oppose this amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I am well aware that this de¬ bate had consumed a great deal of time and that members are anxious to vote upon it. Nothing but a sense of duty to the Com¬ mittee, which accepted the proposition offered by the gentleman from Dallas, and the belief in my mind that whatever might have been the case if this proposition had not been introduced, it would CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1017 now be exceedingly unfortunate to reject it, compels me to ob¬ trude myself once more xipon the House upon this question. As I listened to the words of my friend from Montgomery, a man of whose friendship I have always been proud, I thought to myself how different would be his acts from what he preaches if a prisoner were in his charge. I know^ full well that the man who struggled on the Roundtop, and who was at Snodgrass Hill and who left one arm in Virginia, if he had a prisoner in his charge, would lose the other before any man should take him until they disabled him. Now, I did not take to myself that part of my friend’s argu¬ ment which tried to persuade members of this House that my earnestness may mislead their judgments, and in consequence of my earnestness—and that was all there was in what I said—that in consequence of my earne.stness some of them might be moved against their better judgments. I realize that whatever success there was in the proposition to have the Sheriff impeached before the Supreme Court, was not because I advocated it, but because the people of Alabama found in the current history ample justifi¬ cation for it and that public opinion had crystalized on that sub¬ ject long before we came here. When we analyze the differences in this debate, we find one sentiment set off against another. No gentleman on this floor has said in the abstract that it was not just, that it was not right when a man died in the service of the State for the State to take some thought of those he left behind him. Upon that, as an ab¬ stract proposition of justice, no man has gainsaid the proposi¬ tion of the Committee. But my friend from Macon and my friend from Montgomery and other gentlemen, have attached great im¬ portance to the fact that, as they say, for the first time m Ala¬ bama, we set the precedent of a civil service pension, that it is all right to have a pension for man who dies in uniform in the mili¬ tary service, but the precedent of civil pension is all wrong, leads to harm and is unheard of. My friend from Macon is usually very accurate in his illustrations, but the illustration he makes of a civil service pension is not all parallel to the case we havfe in hand. What is a civil service pension that has been voted down time and again on Congress? It is not a pension to the family of a man who dies in the discharge of duty, but it is to continue for life on a salary at the expense of the people, who still live after they have discharged their duties for a certain length of time. The two cases are not at all parallel. Now. it is charged here with emphasis by my frieml from Greene that we have been living ninety years under Constitutions that had no such provision as th^, that this '^Jff'slaUve and therefore, ought not to be in the Constitution. W hy. Mr. 1 resi 1018 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS dent, our Constitutions are filled with what everyone of us knows are legislative provisions. MR. FERGUSON—May I interrupt the gentleman? MR. JONES—Yes, sir. MR. FERGUSON—I want to ask if this ordinance is not in conflict with Section 37 of Article I. of the present Constitution? MR. JONES—I don’t know what Section the gentleman re¬ fers to. Read it. The Section referred to was read as follows by the Clerk: “That the sole object and only legitimate end of Government, is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty and prop¬ erty, and when the Government assumes other functions, it is usurpation and oppression.” MR. JONES—Before I proceed to answer that, I would ask the gentleman to point out wherein he thinks there is a conflict. MR. FERGUSON—Is that the pursuit of life, liberty or the protection of property, putting the granting of pensions into the organic authority? Since the gentleman hands it back to me, I say it is in direct conflict with that Section. MR. JONES—I asked my friend wherein in his opinion there was any conflict that I might answer. There is not a thing in that provision in conflict with this provision, it will be as binding as the other, and when the Committee comes to arrange this mat¬ ter, if there is a conflict, they will bring the matter to the atten¬ tion of the House. But this proposed Article is for the protec¬ tion of life, for the protection of property, to promote happiness and to provide a mode and means by which that can be attain¬ ed and to that end there is a large and broad discretion in the Legislative Department. Now, as I was proceeding to say, Mr. President, there are in every Constitution, a thousand things, more or less, that are pure matters of legislation; but when the framers of a Constitution think a policy is of permanent importance, they put it in the Con¬ stitution. Now, for instance, in Section 4 of Article IV, we have this: “It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as may be necessary and proper to decide differences by ar¬ bitrators, to be appointed by the parties who may choose that mode of adjustment.” Anybody knows the Legislature could do that without that constitutional power if they wanted to. It was a pure matter of legislation, and yet the framers of the Constitu¬ tion attach so much importance to that as a permanent policy that they put it in the Constitution. Then they go on and provide here that they shall pass laws against bribery! Anybody knows CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1019 that the General Assembly has power to do that without author¬ ization. MR. COLEMAN—Do you assert as a proposition of law that without law declaring the effect of arbitration, parties could re¬ sort to the judicial tribunals to have these rights adjudicated? Is it not by reason of that alone that it is upheld? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I understand the Supreme Court in some cases decided that but in my opinion very erroneously. MR. COLICMAN—Oh. yes. MR. JONES—Well, the Court thought so for they took it back. I api)eal to my friend from Greene if it was necessary to put this in the Constitution to authorize the (general Assembly to pass such a law as is referred to in this: “The offense of cor- rupt solicitation of members of the General Assembly, or of pub¬ lic officers of this State, or of any municipal division thereof, and any occupation or practice of solicitation of such members, or officers, to influence their official actions, shall be defined by law. and shall lie punished by fine and imprisonment. There is not a lawyer within the sound of my voice who don’t know that the General Assembly had the power to do that. And so there are hundreds of things in the Constitution that the Legislature had the power to do without such Constitutional provisions. It may be an objection to any proposition that it is a pure matter of legislation, but if it embodies a principle that is per¬ manent, one that is uppermost in the minds of the people, and that they want to declare a permanent policy, they alwa\s put it in the Constitution, and they never put into the Constitutio things that are transient or transitory and as to wmch polities may change from time to time. Then the question is, 1= this a wise thing to put into the Con¬ stitution? What are the objections to it? Is it as to phraseology. We will come to that latei on and if gentlemen who agree with the principle but differ as to phraseology will siiggest the amen - men?s we" hall be very happy to I take it, the bulk of the objections to this clause is the princ p it embodies. MR OATES If this is legislative, is it not the proper office o( .h“ Legisll.u?e to consider!, when they find it then duty to legislate on that subject? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Unquestionably, ^ u-rvinocf ipio-klation the Constitution, says they shall do it, other wSTou leave it t’o their J.scretion whether they will or will not. The Committee used the word “shall” deliberately, with the IntenT to girf command; tor the people to aay to the.r ser- 1020 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS vants in the Legislature ‘ you shall do so and so.” There can’t be any mistake about that. MR, HEFLIN (Chambers)—Under this provision the next Legislature would have to consider this matter. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—They would if they observed their oaths. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—If they do consider it and pass a law in obedience to this command in the Constitution, and the people decide that they wanted to repeal that law, can they do it without amending the Constitution, or having a new Constitu¬ tion? MR. JONES Yes, because the Legislature could from time to time pass such laws, complying with the spirit of the Constitu¬ tion, as they saw fit; anl if a particular law was passed and was not entirely proper, they could remedy the evil by changing it. It is said that this is something new. What are we here for, except to profit by the experience of those who have gone before us? I do not suppose when in the Constitution of 1875, for the first time, the legislative power was limited in the matter of the rate of taxation, that the members of that Constitutional Conven¬ tion would have considered it an argument against the proposition to restrict taxation, that it had never been done before. That is no argument, or at least a very feeble one. The question is, is there an evil. If so, is it one that this Constitution ought to take notice of, and if that is so, whether the proposition that is an¬ nounced is wise and proper. Down in our hearts every one of us feels when a man is killed in the discharge of his duty, whether he be in uniform or in civilian’s dress, when he is an officer of the btate, that exact and equal justice requires that the State of Ala¬ bama should, to some extent, recompense those dependent on him because of the loss of his life. The reason why the State hereto¬ fore has not gone into many of these questions is the number of them I remember distinctly, and if I had not gotten the book I would have given the credit of its approval to my good friend Gov, Oates, where, for the first time, I know of in the history of civilized lands, a State, when a citizen had been imprisoned in the penitentiary and afterwards proved clearly to have been in¬ nocent of all crime said “it is the justice of Alabama, although it has never been done before, that you should be recompensed to some extent for the evils you have suffered in the carrying out of the general law,” and Alabama paid a man $865. I refer to the act of 1893 for the relief of Lancaster. I remernber another case, and I don’t think he was then in a military position, that of Gen. Sam Davis. I don’t think he was in the military service of the State at the time, but that grand old hero, in protecting the settlers in the borders, had a noted fight CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1021 with the Indians, what is known in history as the Canoe fight. The people of Alabama said “such courage and devotion in that man ought to be rewarded,” and in his declining days, when he was suffering poverty, they gave him a pension. It is one of the things in the history of Alabama to which I do not like to allude that Alabama afterwards repudiated that pension, and took it away from him. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—May I ask the gentleman a ques¬ tion right there? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Certainly. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Are those instances to be found in the Constitution of the State or in legislative actions? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I found those two in legis¬ lative acts. I cannot see any objection, if the framers of the Constitution think a permanent policy should be pursued, to put¬ ting that permanent policy in the Constitution. That is what a Constitution is for, to put in permanent policies or pririciples, as distinguished from mere policies which shift with conditions and times. It is no objection that this section might be provided for by legislation. Two-thirds of the things in the Constitution could be done by the General Assembly, if the Constitution were silent as to them. The Legislature could fix the number of courts and the qualifications of the judges, and of the electors, and rights of property, and many other things with which the Constitution deals. They are put in the Constitution because the people con¬ sider them of paramount importance, and therefore they deem it wise to put them in the Constitution as guide boards for the Legislature. Because the Legislature might do a thing is no reason why it should not be put in the fundamental law if the people deem it proper to declare a permanent policy as to them. It is objected that the Legislature could not know exactly what to do. Purposely, it was not undertaken to define the exact modus by which the duty should be discharged. I can imagine a case arising where the Legislature would hear testimony. Here is John Smith who has been killed in the discharge of his duty. He had not a dollar on earth. He has two orphan children. The Legislature could give them $20 a month until they are g^rown. There might be another case. Here is a Sheriff who is rich. There was nobody dependent on him. He left a large estate. The Legis¬ lature might decline in that instance to make any compensation. They might pass a general law after the manner of the pension law of the United States and make provision by general law for these cases. 1022 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. COLEMAN (Green)—Do you say under that law the Legislature would have the power or authority to provide for twenty dollars or any other sum for the children of a poor sheriff and would not be bound to make some provision for the children of a rich one? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—It says '‘dependent." MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Will you add that in there? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—Will you let me have the amendment. Here is the language: “It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to make adequate provision for dependent mem¬ bers of the family of any Sheriff, Deputy Sheriff or members of any posse w^ho may be killed or permanently injured in defending any person in the custody of the law\“ Now, what is the trouI)le about that in the mind of my friend from Greene? MR, COLEMAN (Greene)—I suppose the gentleman has had so many law suits arising out of those who are dependent on other persons and has had so much difficulty in ascertaining w^ho are dependent, that he should hardly ask the question. It is one of the most difficult questions wdth w’hich ^ve have to deal. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—And I was illustrating that the Legislature as a jury would find w^hat they thought proper in each ]}articular case. MR. PILLANS—Is it the theory of the committee that if this section is adopted, we .are to have in each such case a judicial ascertainment by the Legislature of the conditions and quality of the Sheriff as to finances, and what he left, and passing upon it as to what amount of relief should be given or that there should be a general law? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—The committee left that to the wdsdom of the Legislature. I can only answer the gentleman as to wLat I would do w^ere I in the Legislature. MR, COLEMAN—Why not leave it all to the Legislature? MR. JONES—I am perfectly willing to leave it all to the Legislature if the gentleman will put “shalF' in it. We will take anything they w^ant, but I don't want the Convention to be in the attitude of saying “gentlemen we think it very well if you think it very well, to do something on this line." We want to go down on this proposition as it is, unless my friend will give better words to epcpress our idea, and not put themselves in the attitude of telling the Legislature “we know if you choose to do it, you can do it, and we hope 3 ^ou will consider it." We want to give them a command to declare that it is the law of Alabama that they shall consider these things. If my friend from Greene would indicate what language he thinks would not be objectionable to him if we can, we will gladly accept it. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1023 MR. COLEMAN (Greene)--If anything is to be adopted I would prefer that it be recommitted to the gentleman to frame something. We cannot in the hurry of a moment frame proper words. I hope the whole thing will be voted down, and that it will be left to the Legislature where it belongs. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—How can the committee frame a satisfactory section if the gentlemen won’t give us the benefit of their wisdom. MR. FERGUSON—I am not a practiced debater like my friend, the gentleman from Montgomery: but he failed to answer my question awhile ago and I desire now to put it in a more direct and concrete form. I want to ask him the direct question if he thinks the granting of pensions is a legitimate function of gov¬ ernment in Alabama? MR. JONES—If you call the compensation which the States give to a man who suffers a burden which belongs to all the peo¬ ple and not to him alone, a pension, I say it most certainly is a legitimate function of government. It is not in violation of the present Constitution. I answer further that we are trying to make a Constitution, where that will not be contrary to the fundamental law even if it has been in the past. The sovereign people of Ala¬ bama have a right to say, and I hope they will say, to the Legis¬ lature, when these men—my officers—die in discharge of their duty “you must do something for their families—for those who are dependent upon them,” Property is not more valuable than life. When all of a man’s property is taken for the public good, the State compensates him for all the excess above his proportion. It does not require him to make the whole sacrifice. This section is only an application of the principle. Gentlemen say that becoming Sheriff is a voluntary act— that a man runs for that office for the money. If gentlemen don’t want the principle to apply to the volunteer, why not let it apply to the members of the posse? He is not a volunteer. seek¬ ing neither profits nor honor. He is compelled^ to serve. There is not a man in this house who would hesitate five rninutes to vote a reward in money payable at once, or payable in installments, to any soldier who did an heroic act for his people. Our people fight. They are warlike people. Is there not heroism outside of a uniform? There are many grand heroes, who never shouldered a musket or heart artillery’s roar, and yet have performed deeds heroic as those of any soldier. If the gentlemen object to the principle that the State ought to compensate nien who go down to death for its welfare, well and good. Put it on that ground but not on the quibble, that it is a civic matter. To say that hero¬ ism in civil life ought not to be rewarded while heroism in a mil¬ itary capacity ought to be rewarded, is begging the question. 1024 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. WILLIAMS (Barbour)—Is it in order to offer an amend¬ ment now? MR. JONES (Montgomery)—No, not while I am speaking; but I will yield to the gentleman for that purpose if he will give me the floor when he gets through. The amendment of the delegate from Barbour was read as follows: Amend Section 31 by striking out the words “Sheriff or Deputy Sheriff.” MR. deGRAFFENREID—I rise to a point of order. The amendment is out of order, as the matter under discussion is an amendment to an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair the point of order is well taken. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I was about to say that this is a matter of great importance, as an adverse disposition of the question would be considered a refusal to give the moral power of the State to aid the Sheriff. If this Convention votes down every proposition looking to compensation to people who are slain in the discharge of their duty, it will have a bad effect not only upon the sheriffs, but upon the outside world. I do hope the friends of this proposition will not be led astray, because some gentlemen say “you do not take in policemen, or judges or so¬ licitors.” We are not dealing now with them, we are dealing with an exceptional case—with a great evil which we rely upon the Sheriff to suppress, and whose duties in connection with the evil make him peculiarly an object of danger and attack. For one I do not hesitate to express the opinion as to the case of policemen slain in discharge of duty. If I had the power to do it, I would provide that every city or town in the State should make com¬ pensation to an officer slain in the discharge of duty. However, we are not now legislating as to those matters. We are putting the command into the Constitution regarding certain constitu¬ tional officers, and it ought not to go out to the world, after hav¬ ing this provision before us, that we decline to give the moral aid of the State to our sheriffs, and thus put the Convention in the attitude of making a play of words and having a heroic provision in words in the Constitution, which were not intended for actual home consumption, but to be heard of abroad. That is reason why I insist now, no matter what the case, if this provision had never been put before the Convention, that it would be unwise to leave it without making some such provision as that suggested by the substitute. Personally, for the sake of harmony, although I do not think it should be done, I am willing to take out the Sheriff and confine it to his posse; but certainly the State of Alabama ought not to send forth the edict from this hall that it never in¬ tends no matter how the citizen in its service is stricken down, to aid his family when he dies in the discharge of public duty. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1025 MR BOONE—^This matter has been very thoroughly dis¬ cussed, but I want to call the attention of the delegates to the Convention to the wording of that amendment to the word ad¬ equate” in the provision. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—If the gentlenran will suggest a better word we will take it. MR. BOONE—I will discuss the proposition. I am not in favor of it any way and I am arguing against the proposition. MR. JONES—Then I suggest to my friend it is not worth while to criticise language when he is against the princip e. MR. BOONE—I oppose the principle and the way you put it. I oppose it in its entirety, in toto and every way you put it. But in as much as you are seeking to put it in the Constitution that way I think it is particularly objectionable the way it is. He says the sheriff or deputy or any member of the posse, etc., shall be entitled to adequate provision. It does seem to me that the word “adequate” if it means full and complete, should not only be to those men but to those who are dependent upon them. Now suppose a man in a posse was a practicing physician or a lawyer in full practice, and he was killed. Would not the question fairly be and would not the Legislature have to construe it in the light of the words of the Constitution and would they not give compen¬ sation to the family of that man, taking into consideration his situation in life, his income, what period of life he had yet to live according to the tables of mortality and what is the loss to the family by reason of his death. Would it not mean that. It seems to me it would. So that it would at least be granting to that man such an amount of money or to the family such a sum per annum or in bulk as put out at interest would yield a sufficient amount to make them whole by reason of his death. Now is this State in any such fix financially as to launch out upon that system of oensioning? The government of the United States, with all of Its hundreds of millions don’t say they will give to its pension list adequate amounts. Congress has carefully graded that to the dif¬ ferent officers and men and gives them a fixed determined sum. But under this constitutional amendment we seek to leave it in the oower of the legislature to do in each particular case whatever they may deem just and that they shall do it. Now, take a case after the manner of those cited by the gentleman from Montgom¬ ery. Here is a sheriff who seeks to do his duty, and a mob takes his prisoner, and in endeavoring to hold or to protect him that sheriff is shot down. This is a generous people and froni the Cult to the Tennessee line the plaudits of praise are shouted for that man The legislature is in session and they say for a valuabl^e thing like that he should be given forty thousand dollars. It seems to me vicious and that it should not be put in the Constitu¬ tion. 1026 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. JONES—Do you know what the legislature paid for that man who was killed in the service of the State? MR. BOONE—Would that estop the legislature, what they paid forty or fifty years ago. Is that a fair argument? MR. JONES—They said it was unconstitutional and that they could not pay him a cent but they got around it and they gave him, popular man as he was, in the nature of a fee to his firm $10,000 and the other members of the firm gave it to his fam¬ ily and if they hadn’t done that the State would not have paid $ 3 , 000 . MR. BOONE—The gentleman might as well argue because a jury in one case gave so much that that would be an estoppel upon another jury. We all know that nothing of that kind occurs. What one legislature has done would not control another legisla¬ ture. Another point suggested to me since I began to speak. Could the legislature cease to make these appropriations from the public treasury and put the dependents on a pension list if the people desire it? It must be plain to all that it could not be done save by amending the Constitution. I think the argument made by the distinguished gentleman from Greene is conclusive. I have noth¬ ing further to say. MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I move the previous question on the original proposition, on the amendment and on the amend¬ ment to the amendment. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—On that we ask the ayes and noes. MR. SAMFORD—Not on the previous question. MR. JONES—Not on the previous question, but when the vote is taken on the amendment. The previous question was ordered, and the call for the ayes and noes sustained. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I rise to a point of paliamentary inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of parliamentary inquiry. MR. HEFLIN—What was the motion of the gentleman from Marengo? THE PRESIDENT—The previous question upon all the amendments. MR. HEFLIN—To the substitute. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1027 MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—To the whole shooting-match, I don’t know what you call it—the original question and all. The president—T he question before the Convention is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Macon to the original article offered by the gentleman from Dallas as amended by the substitute offered by the gentleman from Montgomery. MR. JONES—I would like to have that read before the Chair puts the question. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair had not completed the state¬ ment— MR. JONES—I beg pardon, I thought you were through. THE PRESIDENT—The substitute offered by the gentle¬ man from Montgomery was adopted and became embodied in the amendment offered by the gentleman from Dallas, and now the question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gen¬ tleman from Macon, and those favoring the adoption of the amend¬ ment—- MR. BROOKS—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry, my recol¬ lection is that the amendment offered as a substitute by the gen¬ tleman from Macon was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—It was not. Now, then, for fear some gentleman should not understand the question, the chair will re¬ state it. The question is on the adoption of the amendment pro¬ posed by the gentleman from Macon. The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read as follows: Amendment by Mr. Cobb. Strike out the words “it shall be the duty” and insert, “it shall be in the power of the General Assembly.” MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I rise to a question of inquiry. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the question of inquiry. MR. COLEMAN—State to the Convention what will be the effect of the yea and nay vote now to be taken. THE PRESIDENT—If a majority vote aye, the effect will be to adopt the amendment offered by the gentleman from Macon. If a majority vote no, the effect will be to defeat that amendment. We first vote upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Macon (Mr. Cobb.) MR. OATES—I ask that the substitute which has been adopt¬ ed, with the amendment offered by the gentleman from Macon be read so we can see how it will be if that amendment is carried. 1028 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—If the amendment offered by the gen¬ tleman from Macon be either adopted or rejected the question will recur upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Dallas as changed by the substitute offered by the gentleman from Montgomery. MR. OATES—I don’t think the Chair understands the point. If the amendment of the delegate from Macon be adopted, how will the proposition read? THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the substitute of the gentleman from Montgomery and then read it as it will read with the amendment of the gentleman from Macon incorpor¬ ated in it. The Secretary then read the substitute offered by the gen¬ tleman from Montgomery. Sec. 31. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to make adequate provision for dependent members of the family of any sheriff, deputy sheriff, or member of any posse, who may be killed or permanently injured in defending any prisoner in the custody of the law."" If amended would read: ‘‘It shall be in the power of the Gen¬ eral Assembly to make adequate provision for dependent members of the family of any sheriff, deputy sheriff, or member of any posse who may be killed oi permanently injured in defending any prisoner in the custody of the law."" THE PRESIDENT—The question is upon the adoption of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Macon, and those favoring the adoption of the amendment will say aye, and those opposed no, as their names are called. The result of the roll call was as follows: AYES. Messrs, President, Altman, Bartlett, Bethune, Boone, Browne, Bulger, Cardon, Carmichael, of Colbert, Caranathan, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, Glover, Grayson, Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Handley, Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Henderson, Howze, Inge, Moody, Murphree, Oates, O’Neal (Lauderdale), opp, Parker (Elmore), Pearce, Phillips, Pillans, Pitts, Proctor, Reynolds (Chilton), Robinson, Samford, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Craig, Davis, of DeKalb, Dent, Espy, Ferguson, Fletcher, Total—68. Ashcraft, Banks, Barefield, Beddow, Blackwell, Brooks, Burnett, Burns, Byars, Carmichael, of Coffee, Cornwall, Cunningham, deGraffenreid, Duke, Fitts, Foshee, Foster, Freeman, Gilmore, Graham, of Montgomery, Total—59. Almon, Beavers, Case, Davis, of Etowah, Eley, Eyster, Greer, of Ferry, Hodges, King, Jackson, Jones, of Bibb. Jones, of Hale, Kirk, Kirkland, Long, of Walker, Lowe, of Jefferson, Lowe, of Lawrence, Merrill, Miller (Marengo), Miller (Wilcox), NOES. Graham, of Talladega, Grant, Hinson, Hood, Howell, Jenkins, Jones, of Montgomery, Jones, of Wilcox, Knight, Kyle, Leigh, Macdonald, McMillan, of Baldwin, McMillan (Wilcox), Malone, Martin, Morrisette, Norman, Ledbetter, Locklin, Lomax, Long, of Butler, Maxwell, .Mulkey, NeSmith, Pettus, Reese, Searcy, Smith (Mobile), Sollie, Spragins, Stewart, Tayloe, Vaughan, Waddell, Walker, Weatherly, Williams (Barbour), Norwood, O’Neill, of Jefferson, O’Rear, Palmer, Parker (Cullman), Porter, Rogers (Lowndes), Sanford, Selheimer, Sloan, Smith, Mac. A., Sorrell, Spears, Thompson, Watts, Weakley, White, Whiteside, Williams (Marengo), Wilson (Wash’gton), Winn. Renfro, Reynolds, of Henry, Rogers (Sumter), Sanders, Sentell, Smith, Morgan M. Stoddard, Willet, Williams (Elmore), Wilson (Clarke). ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Total—28. 1030 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I am paired During roll call: MR. CASE —If I were to vote, I would vote no. with Mr. Rogers of Sumter; he would vote yea. MR PETTUS—I am paired with Mr. Sanders of Limestone, if he were present he would vote aye and I would vote no. MR LONG (Walker)—I have been absent for the last two days and I ask pirmLion to introduce a short resolutton ; ,t ,s a very important one. Ordinance No. 401, by Mr. Long of Walker: Whereas, The platform adopted by the last Democratic State Convention on March 23d last, among other faith “not to deprive any white man of the right for convention of an infamous crime, and also pledged Section 39 of Article IV of the present Constitution, with refer- ?nce to thefemo'aTand location of the State Capitol shall renia.n unchanged.’’ And, whereas, editorials have appeared in a leading Montgom¬ ery daily paper to the effect that the pledges made in the last Democratic platform should not be binding upon the delegates to this Convention. And, whereas, at a recent meeting of the State Press Asso¬ ciation the representative of a leading Montgomery religious paper introduced and with the assistance of an editor of a Montgomep daily newspaper, had passed a resolution to the effect that the party platform was not and should not be binding upori tbe con¬ science or act of any delegate or member of the Constitutional Convention and further pledged the hearty support of the State press should the party platform be violated ; And, whereas, if it is cxpeditnt or right to violate one sec¬ tion of the party platform, it is equally right or just to violate another; Therefore, be it ordained, by the people of Alabama in Con¬ vention assembled, that the State Capital be and is hereby removed from Montgomery to Birmingham, Alabama. MR. LONG (Walker)—I ask that that ordinance be referred to the Committee on Consistency^ THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman asks that the ordinance will be referred to the Committee on Consistency, Order and Har¬ mony and it is so referred. The question recurred upon the original article as amended. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move indefinite postponement of Section 31. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1031 MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)—I rise to a point of order, the previous question has been ordered. MR. HEFLIN—I move to lay it upon the table. MR. SOLLIE—I want to offer an amendment. THE PRESIDENT—The previous question has been ordered. MR. SOLLIE—But when amended, isn’t it not a new proposi¬ tion? THE PRESIDENT—The previous question has been ordered and the motion to lie on the table is not debatable. MR. HARRISON—I rise to a point of order. I desire to call the attention of the President to the precedent as laid down in rule 35 to lay on the table. THE PRESIDENT—Yes, and the Chair would call the gen¬ tleman’s attention to rule 26, motion to adjourn has precedence even of a motion to table, but the rules declare that even a mo¬ tion to adjourn shall not be in order after the previous question shall have been ordered. It is in order at any time except after the previous question has been ordered. In this case the pre¬ vious question has been ordered and the question now is on the adoption of Section 31 as amended. MR. HEFLIN—I understood the gentleman from Marengo to call the previous question on the section and amendment to the section that has just been voted on. THE PRESIDENT—He calls for the previous question on the question now submitted, and the— MR. HEFLIN—Does the Chair hold that if some member moves the adoption of the Section as amended it would not be in order to lay the whole thing on the table? THE PRESIDENT—The previous question has been order¬ ed on the section as proposed by the gentleman from Dallas, and on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Macon. The question is on the adoption of the section proposed by the gentle¬ man from Dallas as amended. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—A yea, vote adopts it, and a nay vote defeats the section? THE PRESIDENT—yes. A vote being taken, the section as amended was defeated by a vote of 63 nays to 62 ayes, on a division. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I desire to report on behalf of the Committee on Rules, a substitute for Resolution No. 166. 1032 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The report was read as follows: Resolution No^ 166, by Mn Harmon t^„e;-making a total at the very least estimate of $40,000, that the citizens o Svlacauga gave in order to get an annual appropriation from the State of Alabama of $2,500, and the interest on the donation from Sylacauga at 8 per cent, amounts to more in one year than the State of Alabama gives back to the people of that community $3,200— MR. PEARCE—Will you permit me to ask you a question? THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman consent to be in¬ terrupted? MR. GRAHAM—Certainly. MR. PEARCE—Was that deed made to the farmers or to the State of Alabama? MR. GRAHAM—It was made to the State of Alabama—- there was no other place for it to be made—it is an agrkultural State, $3,200 interest on the investment of the people by Sylacau¬ ga, against $2,500 from the State. Where is the man who has any regard for the sacredness and the obligation of a contract that can vote here to repudiate a condition of this kind? All of them may not have done so well, but they have all done as as they can, they have cast in what they could, and it is as sacred under the law as the larger donations. There is one other element in that proposition. That building that I have referred to was owned bv a corporation known as Sylacauga Improvement Com¬ pany and fully 90 per cent, of the stock of that corporation was owned by citizens of Pittsburgh, Pa. They made a deed, without one dollar of inducement, to the State of Alabama to this valuable property, to be held in trust for educational purposes in Alabama. Will the Constitutional Convention of Alabama show less interest in the education of the boys and girls of Alabama than a Pitts¬ burgh, Pa., corporation? I ask you that solemn question. And now what? Pass this amendment and these properties which have been held in trust bv the State of Alabama for educational pur¬ poses will revert to' the original grantors, and you have these school houses in the respective communities struggling for an existence, and dependent solely for educational advantages on three months’ common school in Alabama. Gentlemen, did we come here as a constructive people or destructive people? Do we recognize the fact that an intelligent citizenship is to be the foun¬ dation of all future growth and prosperity in this country? If we CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 106S do, we dare not place our hands upon a single educational insti¬ tution in Alabama and tear it to its foundation and destroy its influence and its worth. We have a solemn trust. We cannot depend upon material development—we cannot depend upon agri¬ cultural prosperity in Alabama to make it a great State. It will only be when the school house and the church spire tower to the heavens in every community, only when the citizenship of the State rally around their educational institutions that w'e can un¬ furl our banner to the breeze and say in truth that we are going onward and upward. There is another feature. The contracts for these nine schools have been made for another years. Fifty-three teachers have been employed to work in these schools. The citizens of the commu¬ nities are standing there waiting for the boys and girls to come in representing as they did in the preceding year fifty-three coun¬ ties in the State of Alabama—and mind you, gentlemen, I want to impress it upon your minds—that the boarding pupils of these institutions are boys and girls coming from humble farm homes, their incomes will not justify going to more distant schools and where board will be higher. Do not go off on the argument that they do not reach all. Only 50 per cent, of the children of educational age are in your common schools. If you are going to argue the same question with the same legitimate consequences you must close your common schools in Alabama, because a suffi¬ cient per cent, of the people do not patronize these schools, and I want to say to you that the influence and the power of one young man with brawn and brain that comes from one of these humble country homes where a poor father and mother delve all the day and nearly all the night to sustain him in school—when in future years he gets among the people adds strength to the country in whatever sphere he may be, and is worth more than 10,0X30 of those who shut their eyes and ears to the influences of comirion school education in Alabama. I am for the poor boys and girls who ought to reach these schools and have no other means of higher education. Now on the point that I left a moment ago. Are you going to break the contracts with 53 teachers in Alabama for another year? Are they not as sacred as any contracts that you have as individuals. Are you going to do it? Have those people with their local investment, and the local pride they have shown by spending their money—have they no rights to be con¬ sidered at the hands of this Convention ? Away with that nar¬ rowness that makes a man fight a school because it did not happen to be located in his own town; away with that narrow¬ ness that does not want a school to flourish and to do good in Alabama because, forsooth, every boy and girl in the State does not attend it! Now, let me call your attention to another fact. You say that the poor farmers of the State pay it and do not get the benefit of it? Somebody said that the tenant classes largely paid it and not the owner of the land. Who constitute 1066 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the large majority of the tenant class in Alabama? Who is it, gentlemen? It is the negro. There is not a school located in this State today for the negro children of this kind and character, yet every negro who buys a ton of fertilizer contributes his share and his mite to the support of these district schools. What are you going to do.about that? MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Will you permit me to ask a ques¬ tion? As chairman of the committee as you are don’t you think you had better remedy that evil in your report? MR. GRAHAM—I suppose my report will be up for con¬ sideration hereafter, and if it is not known to the gentlemen of this Convention now I make it known for future purposes, that I stand here forever to say that the negro in Alabama shall not be remitted forever solely to his taxes for the support of his schools. (Applause.) MR. ESPY—Will you permit an interruption? MR, GRAHAM—^Just one moment, I would prefer not to be interrupted now. This Agricultural fund last year in the last report, amounts to $75,000, These schools draw $25,000. I beg to correct a portion of my statement in regard to the benefits that the negro receives. I understand that $1,500 of this fund goes to Tuskegee to Booker Washington’s school and $1,000 to Patter¬ son’s school at the colored University, making them to receive one- tenth of the amount appropriated for this purpose, when I dare say that the facts would show that they pay 40 per cent, of the tag tax. I was going on to say that the receipts last year were only $75,000. These schools received $25,000 and Auburn re¬ ceived something over $11,000, making a total appropriation some¬ thing like $40,000 for these purposes. Now then, gentlemen, we are talking about taxation in Alabama, The subject of taxation is before us. If you abolish this tag tax where are you going to get the funds to support these schools. We cannot afford to de¬ stroy them. Where is their support to come from. How are you going to keep faith with these institutions? Will the State of Alabama by one act destroy $125,000 of property in order to save $75,000 that are now paid out by the farmers. Nobody contends that this tax ought to be entirely removed, or that the expense of examination should not be defray ed. Where are you going to get the rnoney to do it? Where? Now then, gentlemen, to state it as briefly as I can, to adopt this amendment brings us to this point. The State of Alabama will lose $75,000 income. The farmers will not have their fertilizers examined, with the result that the price of the fertilizer will not be reduced one cent. They can stand here and talk for years and years and tell me that the adoption of this amendment will bring about a reduction in the price of fertilizer, but I have got too much corporation sense and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1067 experience for any man ever to make me believe that absurd proposition. The State loses $75,000 and the farmer grains nothing is your first proposition. The next proposition is, that the State loses $135,000 in good school property that it now holds, and gains nothing. The next proposition is that you violate a con¬ tract of good faith with nine communities in this State; abrogate a contract with fifty-three teachers and shut the school houses to 2,300 pupils in Alabama. You give a blow to educational progress in Alabama that we cannot recover from in the course of ten years, however much we may increase in tax values and in ap¬ propriation for public schools. I call upon the gentlemen on this floor who have a regard for the sacredness of a contract, who be¬ lieve that we meant what we said when we stated in our platform that Alabama should take no backward step in education, who believe that these schools are doing good work in Alabama, who believe that we should keep faith with the people of the State,-^I say I call upon you to vote down this amendment and let us prove to the people of Alabama by our acts that we meant what we said. MR. ESPY—I desire to offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows; Amend by adding “and after September, 1903, no license or other tax shall ever be levied or collected for the inspection of any article of merchandise used for fertilizer, in excess of 10 cents per ton.” MR. GRAHAM—Will the gentleman from Henry allow me to make one statement? MR. ESPY—Certainly. MR. GRAHAM—In arguing the proposition of what these communities had put into the several schools, I overlooked one fact and that is that these nine schools spent $20,000 last year made up in their respective counties in supplementing the appro¬ priation of $22,500 from the State. I desire that to go in as a portion of my argument in regard to what the respective com¬ munities paid. MR. FOSTER—May I ask the gentleman from Talladega a question? THE PRESIDENT—If the gentleman from Henry will yield to you for that purpose. MR. ESPY—Certainly. MR. FOSTER—^Are these schools supported entirely by the money from the fertilizer tax? MR. GRAHAM—Nine of them receive $22,500 from the State each year and the report shows that they supplement that by about $20,000 1068 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SAMFORD—But the $22,500 comes exclusively from the sale of guano tag tax. MR. GRAHAM— Certainly. I understand the gentleman to ask did the whole support. MR. SAMFORD—But the $22,500 comes from the tag tax? MR. GRAHAM—Yes, and the record shows that those people are adding as much as that themselves approximately. MR. ESPY—In offering this amendment I do not care to be understood as being opposed to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Pike. On the contrary, I am in sympathy with both the sentiment and the letter of that amendment. But since its introduction, and its discussion on this floor it has become evi¬ dent that a large majority of the delegates desire that the law should be changed so as to prohibit the levying of the tax for an amount at least sufficient to pay for the inspection of the fer¬ tilizer. Another point has been urged here that teachers have been employed for these various schools, amounting in number, I be¬ lieve, the gentleman from Talladega said, to fifty-three, and I agree with him it would not be right to deprive these teachers of the benefits of their contracts already made. Again, Mr. President, I have heard it suggested that the Legis¬ lature in providing for the revenues necessary to run the State of Alabama looked to this source of income w'hich amounts to any¬ where from seventy-five to one hundred thousand dollars per an¬ num, therefore my amendment seeks to obviate the objections pointed out by the various delegates so as to meet those difficul¬ ties—to make the section become effective on the first day of September, 1903, and thereby remove the objection that the rev¬ enue that the Legislature had in view would be taken from the treasury and so that the teachers of the State would not be de¬ prived of any rights that they may have had by virtue of their contracts. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I will ask if all of the fertilizer factories in the United States are not in a trust? MR. ESPY—I understand they are. MR. deGRAFFENREID—They are all combined? MR. ESPY—Yes, sir. MR. deGRAFFENREID—They fix the price of fertilizer. MR. ESPY—To some extent. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Now I do not mean to indicate by this question that I do not sympathize with this amendment CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1069 or that I do, but if we were to adopt the suggestion of yours, will not this be legislation in the interest of the trust? MR. ASHCRAFT—I do not desire it to go unchallenged on the floor of this Convention that all the fertilizer factories are m a trust. I happen to know one that is not. MR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I want to rise and say that there are very few fertilizer factories that are in the trust. MR. SANDERS (Limestone)—I understand the cost of analysis is about ten cents per ton? MR. ESPY—My understanding is in that neighborhood. Some say five and some say ten, m the different States. MR. SANDERS— Then after 1903 the ten cents for which your amendment provides would only pay the cost of the analysis and leave nothing for the schools ? MR. ESPY—That is the proposition. MR. SANDERS—The effect would be to wipe out these schools. MR ESPY—So far as this money is concerned. That is the purpose'of my amendment, to permit the Legislature to charge enough to pay the expenses of the analysis only. The gentleman has properly construed the amendment. Now, addressing myself to the merit of the amendnient of¬ fered by the gentleman from Pike, as amended by myself, I desire to say I favor it because as the matter stands now it is class legis¬ lation of the most vicious character. The farmer pays tax upon his land and upon every other species of property just as any other man does, and when the Legislature prescribed the rate of taxation to produce the revenues by which the State of Alabama shall be run they lay an equally heavy hand upon the lands and all other property of the farmer and he pays the demand. Novv in addition to that the Legislature goes further and puts a s^ial tax u^ these tags which produce a revenue of from f75,UOU to $lUU,tW ner annum. Where is there a man within the sound of my voice who does not see that the farmers in the State of Alabama in addition to what they pay on their property generally, are taxed additionally to the extent of $75,000 or $100,(^. That is the ques¬ tion that is involved here. It is double taxation. As has been well suggested by gentlemen here, no tax is laid upon the products, na tax is laid upon the material or goods used by any other men in any other vocation in Alabama. If this statenient is not correct, I challenge any gentleman here to correct it. Those who operate Joalminfs and operate iron nrines, pay nothing at all. Then wha,t is this? It is a species of legislation directed alone against one class of men. It is true delegates upon this floor may say it is 1070 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Tan tto toys' fSmzeThas Jo pay it class legislation, because the farmers alone buy the fertilizer. The Legislature itself has recognized the wrong it has done to the farmers^in Alabama, and recognizing that wrong, they say m the . . , 'ath SgressioMl district in the State of Alabama an Ajticultura schL and we will give $2,500 per annum to is the price for silence that we pay Per annum to elch school, amounting to $22,500 in all.” Where does the balance go^ I ask you delegates, I appeal to you as Jtbnest mercon?eding that the schools are what they were ■ntended To be concedfng that they accomplish per they were created, there remains from $60,000 to annum that does not go to educate the farmers not go in support of agricultural schools. Where does if . goes into the State treasury, or substat^ially all of it goes into the State treasury, thereby doing what? Doubling the taxation up the farmers of the State of Alabama. And no gentleman as I conceive it can successfully challenge the statement or the propo¬ sition Why, it is urged here that the farmers themselves want it. I deny that. I know that the farmers in my section are clamoring for its repeal, and I know that the farmer delegates who have spoken upon this floor have appealed to this Convention to re¬ lieve them from this burden they are now bearing; and it so hap¬ pens that at least two of these speakers live in counties where they have schools, and they see the practical operations of these schools, the state of affairs and the condition that exists, and in answer to that proposition what do they say? The opposition come and say that this fight is the same old fight upon the agri¬ cultural schools of this State. I deny it, Mr. President, that is not it. Why do they resort to that argument? Because if they cannot defend their position on that line they cannot defend it at all, it is indefensible, and they must go down in defeat. Who here has asked that a single school in Alabama be destroyed? Not one, no delegate has asked that. But here is the proposition, don t tax one class of people so as to make that class bear more than its pro rata of taxation. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Will the gentleman from Henry allow me to ask him one question? MR. ESPY—Yes, sir. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1071 MR. GRAHAM—If we adopt this amendment and ratify the Constitution would it not cut off any chance of appropriation to those schools from the date of the ratification of the Constitution? MR. ESPY—No, sir. MR. GRAHAM—Where would the appropriation come from? MR. ESPY—Out of the general revenue. This amendment does cut you off from laying it on the farmers, but it does not cut off its being appropriated out of the general treasury. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Then would it not be necessary for the protection and continuation of these schools for the Legis¬ lature to meet and pass a special act? MR. ESPY—No, sir; this don’t go into effect until 1903. MR. GRAHAM—Would it not cut it off after 1903? MR. ESPY—I think it would. As I was going on to say, they say that this is the old fight against the schools. In that they are mistaken They are making a false issue, dodging the real issue. And why? Because they know there is no delegate in the Convention who is in favor ot tearing down any institution of learning. I agree with the gen¬ tleman from Talladega in his eloquent remarks as to the necessiy and the beneficial effects of education; I differ with him as to the manner of deriving the revenue to support those institutions. He charged that the purpose is to destroy the schools; we assert that the purpose is not to destroy the schools, but to maintain them, but to require that the money should be gotten not from the farmers but from all the people. I think I have successfully demonstrated that the fanner is doubly taxed to the extent ot $ 100 , 000 . Now the next proposition the gentlernan makes is^ that this is an improper place, to have this thing in the Constitution.^ fear my friend, with all due respect to his great laming, has studied the province of a Constitution but little. A Constitution proper should contain as nearly as possible commands and pro¬ hibitions. This is a prohibition The people themselves do not need the adoption of the Constitution to confer power. That is not the purpose of it. The purpose of a State Constitution to restrict the Legislature from exercising unwise powers, and that is exactly what we are trying to say here. Here is a power that has been vested in the Legislature to tax one class of people for the benefit of another. The law has been passed. Legislature after Legislature has been appealed to to repeal that law. J- hey have not done so and those affected by the tax come here and ask this Convention to insert a clause in the Constitution ^ prevent a continuation of a repetition of that unjust taxation. That is all that is involved in this amendment. 1072 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The next proposition I desire to call attention to is that they say we charge these schools are doing no good. No such a charge as that has been made. No such charge will be made; but so far as the agricultural feature of the colleges is concerned, I do not mind stating to the gentleman so far as I have been able to find out from each one of them, each one is a failure from an agricul¬ tural standpoint. That is the proposition. I have one in my county and I say unhesitatingly that so far as the agricultural feature is concerned it is absolutely worthless. Yet it is a fine school and it is doing a great deal of good and I do not ask this Convention to take any steps that would destroy that school. But when you come to me and tell me if you don’t give us a tax from the farmers to support that school, the school must go, I tell you to |let it go, it ought to go. It is not right to tax one class of people to support schools for the entire country. Is there any delegate here who will contend that these schools are not equally open to the sons and daughters of every other class of men as well as farmers? They cannot make that statement. MR. JACKSON—I understand the gentleman to say that the purpose of his amendment is not to destroy the schools? MR. ESPY—Not at all. MR. JACKSON—But is not the result to destroy the schools? MR. ESPY—Not at all. If you want to keep up your schools keep them up out of the general fund. That is what you ought to do or let the schools go. MR. GRAHAM—Will the gentleman from Henry permit an interruption? MR. ESPY—Yes, sir. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—The proposition has been made that the farmer don’t pay this tax, but the manufacturer has to pay it. I want the gentleman as a lawyer to construe a statute. MR. ESPY—Oh, the law says the manufacturer shall pay it. MR. GRAHAM—That is not all. Allow me to read it: “Whenever any manufacturer, merchants, or other person selling fertilizer shall directly or indirectly include such tag tax in the price of the fertilizer sold, such sale is void,” I ask you if that would not render void any sale to a farmer where the tag tax was included and the farmer would not have to pay anything. ^MR. ESPY If you could prove it; but-as a business man don t you know that every manufacturer of any product adds to the cost of production a legitimate profit? MR. GRAHAM If that be true, you should abolish the cor¬ poration tax on every corporation in Alabama, because the people have to pay it eventually. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1073 MR. MALONE—Is it not a fact that the price of fertilizer is regulated by a trust, that while all the factories may not be mem¬ bers of the trust the price is practically regulated by the trust, and is it not a fact that this price is one thing in Georgia and that in Alabama 40 cents is added to it. MR. ESPY—It is a fact, as I understand it, and I get my information from business men of a very high order who have been dealing in fertilizer for years. For instance, you can order a ton of fertilizer shipped to Saffold, Ga., and another shipped to Alaga, Ala., and although the two stations are not over a quarter of a mile apart, Alaga pays 40 cents a ton more than Saffold, just across the river, for the very same product. MR. WHITE—The statute was read by Mr. Graham which prohibits manufacturers and dealers from charging up in the price of fertilizer the cost of the tags. Does not that statute recogniz the injustice of it? MR. ESPY—It certainly does. As I was proceeding to say, here where there is nothing but a State line, where no tax is levied in Georgia except the cost of analysis which is from 7 to 10 cents, the price is one thing, and over in Alabama where we have a 50 cent tax there is an increase of 40 cents on the ton, showing conclusively that the extra charge is made because of the license, and that the consumer in Alabama, notwithstanding the provisions of the law, has that tag tax to pay. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—It has been stated just now that the agricultural features of the school are not a success. MR. ESPY—Yes, so far as I have been able to ascertain. I do not speak for all of them. MR. PARKER—Is it not a fact that only five hundred dollars a year is appropriated in each school for that purpose? MR. ESPY—Yes; and in my county they say they cannot expend the $500 upon the little farm they have in order to draw the $2,000 the succeeding year. There is nothing there to use that five hundred dollars for and it is practically squandered and applied to no practical or useful purpose at all. Now I get back to the proposition, must these schools con¬ tinue to thrive upon an unjust tax exacted from one particular class of our people? I don't think the delegates to this Convention want that done. 'The farmers of Alabama have applied to Leg^s lature after Legislature and each time they are met with the proposition that there is an onslaught upon these institutions of learning, and they are turned away without relief. Now they appeal to you to give them that relief in the form of a provision in the organic law that you are now framing and making for them. 1074 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Will you do it or will you, like the various Legislatures to whom they have appealed, turn them away without reliefs I hope that vou won’t do it. Here is what it means : They have nine ot these schools and in every Legislature they have eighteen representatn es and nine Senators. In other words by the establishment of these >choc)ls tlicv ha\'c successfully added in each Legislature ei|^hteen men in the low'er House and nine men in the upper House to help them hold on to this inic|uitous fund that they are exacting from these people. I say strike it down and you ask me what will vou give in the place of it. I don’t want to destroy these schools, Init cut off this tax and if it is necessary to have more money raise your general taxation and let the entire people of the .State pav the money that supports these schools. Now I want to state a practical illustration of the working of these schools. 1 here is one in each Congressional District. In my own district we have 225.000 people and the school in this district is located at Abbeville and what per cent, of that 225,000 people get the benefit of that school? The children of a citizenship of not exceeding one thou¬ sand ]jeople. The money is raised from the entire 225,000. but when it is expended it is expended upon the children of school age of less than one thousand citizens. Some one may answer me and say well the school is there and the farmer can send his children to the school. If such a point as that it made I say, yes, the institutions are there and there is nothing to prevent the children of the district from going if they have the money and pay their way but for all practical purposes these schools are as much beyond the relief of the great masses of the people as Johns Hopkins University, i hey are not able to go there and pay the board. Gentlemen ask us would we reimdiate this law and lose this valuable property that has been deeded to the State. I tell hiiyi no, we don’t ask for that. That is not the proposition. He don’t deny but what it is double taxation but seeks to divert the minds of the delegates to this Convention from the real issue and make it appear that we are attacking institutions of learning, a very ingenious thing on the part of the gentleman from Talladega. .'\s 1 said a while ago, strike down this tax. The amend¬ ment I offer provides a sufficient amount of money to pay for the analysis of the guano and that is as far as it ought to go. I think I have demonstrated to the Convention that adopting the theory of the opposition, it is only a matter of twenty-five thousand dollars a year to these Normal Schools and the balance of it goes into the general treasury and the entire people get the benefit of it. MR. FLETCHER—I would ask the gentleman what per cent, if the pupils in these Agricultural Schools become farmers? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1075 MR. KSPY—I never heard of one of them 1)ccomin^ a farmer. They are always lawyers and doctors. In conclusion, I only want to speak for a minute and to appeal to the delegates in a spirit of justice and fairness to support this amendment and thereby relieve the unjust burden resting upon the yeomanry of your State. I appeal to you in the spirit of Democracy to repeal this tax and strike from the statute books one of the most vicious pieces of class legislation that ever existed in Alabama. I appeal to you to rise above self interest and let what you think is right as between man and man alone dictate how you shall vote on this matter. MR. HARRISON—I have listened with interest to the argu¬ ment pro and con u])on this amendment. The amendment offer¬ ed by the delegate from Henry appears to my mind to be a species of legislation and that it does not do what the gentleman so elo¬ quently said was one of the prerogatives of the Constitution which was to prohibit the Legislature. MR. ESPY—Let me ask the question: This legislation has been enacted. Diligent effort has been made to relieve the farm¬ ers from it. That is a fact. MR. HARRISON—I think so, it has been repealed once. MR. ESPY—Not repealed entirely but simply changed from bad to worse. Now is it not proper when an evil of this kind exists and the people have sought relief in vain through legisla¬ tive channels—is it not proper for us to put a provision in the organic law giving relief? If that is not proper subject for a Con¬ stitutional clause I would ask the gentleman to cite me to one that is. MR. HARRISON—I think the amendment offered by the delegate from Pike would be, for that would prohibit, while this would only limit. You are proposing to legislate in your amend¬ ment how much that license tag tax shall be, which may be higher or lower next year. MR. ESPY—That is not it at all. It permits the Legisla¬ ture to go as far as 10 cents per ton, but no farther. MR. HARRISON—Is not that a limitation? MR. ESPY—It is. MR. HARRISON—And not a prohibition which you said we should be confined to. It shows at a glance, Mr. President and delegates to the Con¬ vention, that my friend from Henry is undertaking to legislate the price of a license tax here in the Constitutional Convention, and whether it be now right or wrong, I submit it is a matter which 1076 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS should be referred to the Legislature and which will doubtless, as prices of everything else, must rise and fall, and must be changed to meet the exigencies of the times and the prices prevailing when these laws are enacted. MR. WHITE—When we fix 75 cents on the $100 for taxa¬ tion, what is that? MR, HARRISON—That is a limitation, but my friend from Henry said we can only have prohibition. He changed the prohi¬ bition of the amendment of the gentleman from Pike to one of lim¬ itation. I was only applying myself to his argument. I think it is a legislative function and ought to be left with the Legislature, even with all he said as to the impropriety and highness of this price is correct. If that is correct the gentle¬ man should run for the Legislature and go there and try and cor¬ rect it thei'e and not here in this Constitutional Convention. It is true the farmers here and their representatives, some of them, not all of them, I am glad to say, say that this was not inaugurated and not desired by the farmer. I happened to be in the other end of the Capitol as a lawyer when this law was passed. I remember the appeals that were made to the Senate and it was composed largely of lawyers, by the master of the State Grange, Mr. Hiram Hawkins and a committee. I remember how they came to the Senate composed of lawyers largely and appealed to them to let the farmers regulate this matter, the whole system of agriculture for the State of Alabama from the Commissioner down, the Com¬ missioner whom a few days ago this convention engrafted as one of the Constitutional officers of the Executive Department. MR, SAMFORD—Has not the Hon, Hiram Hawkins been a candidate for the office of Commissioner of Agriculture ever since? HR. HARRISON—I have not kept up with the gentleman. I can neither deny or affirm. I do not see that that affects the principle that he helped to get this law passed. I believe there are some other farmers who have succeeded in getting the office and I believe the very law requires that the Commissioner shall be a farmer. The whole system grew out of this very tax. Now, I submit instead of going off on this line that we should take the back track as we have done with the Lieutenant-Gov¬ ernor. Section 38 in the present Constitution, on Legislative De¬ partment, was produced because we then had a Commissioner of Industrial resources that became the laughing stock of the State, and the Convention provided that '‘No State office shall be con¬ tinued or created for the in^jpection or measuring of any merchan¬ dise, manufacture or commodity, but any county or municipality may appoint such officer or officers when authorized by law.’^ That was put there to legislate old man Lambert out of office. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1077 and it did. It has been in the way of business and it is today in the way of an effective execution of this analysis of fertilizer. It is only recently that complaint has been heard because the Con¬ stitution prohibits the appointment of an inspector who shall him¬ self go and draw these samples and inspect them as is done in other States and not required of them to be sent for examination. In Georgia the inspector may go to the articles when they come in the borders and draw samples himself and inspect them properly and but for this provision in the Constitution we could have that here and I trust the Committee on the Legislative Department when they report will leave that out and leave it to the Legisla¬ ture to see that proper inspection is made. Now, as to whether the consumer or the manufacturer pays this tax, there are differences of opinion. I have been told in my town and in the adjoining town of Lafayette near the Georgia line, that the prices are identical. Some den}^ it, l)ut 1 know it is so stated. I am also informed although my friend the delegate to the left says there is at least one manufacturer that is not in this combine or trust, I have been told and I see merchants here who know it that there is but one drummer all over this country to sell you any sort of fertilizers. If that is so it looks like a trust. I have had the best merchants in my town tell me that only one man comes around selling fertilizer and you can get any brand from him. MR. WHITE—Does it improve the condition of the farmer to have the State after him on one side and the trust on the other? MR. HARRISON—^The farmers were trying to get even with the trust when they passed that statute. Whether they did or not, I don’t know, but I suppose it was an effort to endeavor to get even. Now I don’t understand the necessity of placing this matter in the Constitution at all, and I don’t understand why it was until this Article came from the Committee on Taxation that such a matter as this was never brought up. If there was any ordinance of this sort introduced before I never heard of it. I was an hum¬ ble member of the Committee on Taxation and if there was any such ordinance introduced, I failed to hear it read and it did not reach that Committee. Why spring it here when it is a matter that has not been considered by the Committee. I have never heard of it, and right or wrong, can’t the Legislature of Alabama be relied upon, if they have done wrong, to correct this evil. Why make the friends of these nine or ten schools opposed to this Con¬ stitution we are adopting to start with. Is it good policy, is it proper. Can’t we risk the Legislature? As I say, to my personal knowledge, the farmers commenced this movement and got this legislation. At one time it was changed from SO cents to 25 cents and I believe it was Governor Jones who sent a message to the 1078 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Legislature after trying the 25 cents tax and seeing the prices were not reduced, recommending in a public message to the Gen¬ eral Assembly that the tax be again put back to SO cents These matters are brought up at every session of the Legislature. There are more farmers in the House in proportion that there are in this body. It is useless for you delegates to say here that there was ever a Legislature where the farmers did not have sufficient ma¬ jority to assert and maintain their rights. I believe as firmly as I stand here, that they not only inaugurated it but that it is con¬ trolled and managed by a majority of the farmers in the General Assembly. Now I desire wiiile I have the floor, not as the special champion of anyone, for I am addressing myself to the merits of this proposition—but some things have been said in connection with one of the best institutions in Alabama about which I en¬ deavored to get certain information. I refer to the Agricultural and Mechanical College. It was stated by my friend near me that that institution had received $37,000. I called their attention on the first day when this matter came up to the fact that the State only gave them one-sixth of that fund. I wish to say right here what no one will deny, and I say it gladly that that is one insti¬ tution of Alabama that politics has never had anything to do with, and it ranks deservedly high, and this tax, for which I will show you a quid pro quo is the only money that the State of Alabama contributes to that institution. Now I have the figures here of what they received in the last four years : In 1897 ____$ 8,746 In 1898 ______ 9,988 In 1899 _________ 6,432 In 1900 --- 1L770 Now I submit right here that those figures should show my friend, the delegate from Henry that he had better not fix any special limit when the tax varies so much that in one year they get $11,000 and in another they get $6,000. MR. ESPY AVhat is the highest amount receiv^ed in anv one year? MR. HARRISON—$11,770. MR. ESPY—And the lowest? MR, HARISON—$6,432. MR. ESPY—And they only get one-sixth? MR. HARRISON Yes, and this is the only money that the institution gets, and no farmer or lawyer or anyone else can deny that they have been doing a great work for all those who desire special education in the State of Alabama. Now as to the cost of this matter. The State of Georgia it¬ self pays to have this analysis $9,000 a year. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1079 Some ^ood has been made of this fund. The Agricultural College, I am informed has erected a four thousand dollar build- ing and has equipped it with a thousand dollars worth of instru¬ ments and implements. And it does Avhat? It employs from four to five experts all the year around in that Department, There are today five or six young men engaged in that Department, and I desire to sa}^ for and in behalf of that institution, in regard to the aspersions that have been made as to the value of their analysis, that as to that the gentlemen are mistaken. In behalf of the in¬ stitution, I challenge the correctness of any such statement. To show you how it is regarded, I will say that during this present season between eight hundred and one thousand analyses have been made already, which is al)out the average. I will say the samples are sent to the Commissioner of Agriculture, in bottles that are merely numbered, and are not known to the parties. To illustrate further the value of the work that is being done by this institution, I will say that there have been referred to them a number of cases for final decision. Samples have been sent to the laboratory at Auburn from Louisiana, from Mississippi and from Georgia, where the manufacturers had challenged the an¬ alyses of those States, and submitted the article for analysis at Auburn, This is the way that it goes to them, (holding up a small glass bottle bearing a label). Here is one sent from the Commissioner of Agriculture, simply numbered, showing the material, and that is the way thev take hold of it in that institution, and they give the analysis. They do not say whether it comes u]) to that, but they tell you the contents, and prevent the farmer, as was alluded to here, from buying and paying for dirt. I wish the delegates to know, because I know there is a general pride in this institu¬ tion, that the institution at xVuburn has not only been called upon by Georgia and Louisiana and Mississippi to arbitrate their dis¬ puted questions, but today the Professor of Chemistry in the I^lori- da Agricultural College, the professor occupying the same chair in the Mississippi College and the same chair in the University of Alabama, and the city chemists at Atlanta, Birmingham and Montgomery, all received their training at the Auburn laboratory ; and to tell me we should destroy it, as my good friend from Pike would have done if his amendment had been adopted. I was as¬ tonished at the time, for no man could have known better than he, as an alumnus of that institution, the great work that it has been doing, and that we should not take away from it the mere pit¬ tance given to it by the State. I ask where has better work, and where is more value given, a quid pro quo, than for the pittance that has been and is being used today for the benefit of the farm¬ ers in the analyses of these fertilizers? Now, I submit that the delegate from Henry is wrong when he says that this is the only special tax. I am inclined to agree 1080 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS with him on principle. I would like to see all of these special or privilege taxes clone away with. It is unfortunate that the are i^rowin^ upon us, but this is not the only one. Why the licenses placed today on sewing machine agents, on peddlers^ on almost everybody and on all corporations? MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Will the gentleman allow a cpies- tion? MR. HARRISON—Yes. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—Isn’t that a privilege tax rather than than a special tax? MR. HARRISON—Well it is a tax whether you call it a tax or not. It is not the sort of tax that I believe the ^reat State of Alabama ought to collect, but when you come, my friend, to a particular commodity, if you wish to analyze it, or if you wish to get certain or special scientific information in regard to it, it ap¬ pears to me that it is right and equitable that the particular per¬ son who receives the special benefit should pay for it. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—We do not deny that. We are will- ing to pay for it. MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman allow a question. MR. HARRISON—The gentleman from Henry caught my eye. MR. MALONE—Will you give an idea as to what it costs to make this analysis at Auburn. MR. HARRISON—Yes, I think I can come mig-hty near it. I have given you the figures that have been paid, and for which they have done it. MR. MALONE—They are prepared to do it them at that price. MR. HARRISON—Yes, sir. MR. MALONE—Now is it not a fact that the present year at 10 cents a ton there would be over $18,000 collected, yet they are called on to pay out only six or eleven thousand? MR. HARRISON—They sell so much more, Mr. Malone, I suppose it varies. The amount has something to do with it. You take the number of analyses made, when a great amount was sold. MR. MALONE—Isn’t the expense smaller when less is sold, and greater when more is sold? MR. HARRISON I don t know how it varies. There must necessarily be some variation, but I do not know exactly what it would be. CONvSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1081 I^ut I sul)mit, Mr. President, and delegates of the Convention, that it is not the province of this body to fix this today, for all time to come, even if you desire simply to ])ay the expense by placing it in the Constitution of Alabama. It ou^ht not to ^o there. We ou^dit to be willing to risk soniethiiyc: to the C/eneral Assembly of Alabama. It is their prerogative to ]jass on this. Tht farmers elect their representatives to the General Assembly. 1'here are in ever}^ General Assembly a greater i)roporti()n of farnurs than there are in this Convention today, and they can be trusted to take care of their own interests when they occu])y these seats now occupied by us. I am therefore op])osed not only to the amend¬ ment, but the amendment to the amendment, even admitting that any injustice may have been done. I do not know if there are two sides to this question. You talk about the j^eoj'jle demanding it. I ask you what men on earth are more ready to yield to the wishes of the people than the ordinary Legislature? Men who are in the habit of going there, and desire to go back, and delegates, vou cannot satisfy me that these gentlemen would directly violate the wishes of their own constituents and that the farmers themselves on this floor would go back on their interests. MR. KNIGHT—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. HARRISON—Certainly. MR. KNIGHT—Do you not know that a bill was introduced in the last House of Representatives and passed, to reduce this tax from fift}^ to twenty-five cents a ton? MR. HARRISON—That is my information. MR. KNIGHT—And do you not know that it died in the Senate Committee. MR. HARRISON — I believe that the Senate would have passed it, according to my information, if the House had sent it there sooner, but it was like a good deal of legislation which was turned down and local legislation put in its i)lace. I do not know and never heard of its coming before the Senate, but I heard it discussed and if it had come before the Senate, the tax would have been reduced. MR. KNIGHT—It got there, but it died in the Senate Com¬ mittee— MR. HARRISON—Suppose he is correct, and that the Legis¬ lature has not done its duty, are not the legislators amenable to the people of Alabama? If this had been a question, and you wished to make it a question before the people, why not send to the House and the Senate men instructed to reduce the tax? Why bring it here and put it in the Constitution, and array all of those elements of opposition against the instrument we shall frame? I think we are taking upon ourselves too much, when we say that 1082 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS this body has all the intelligence, all the wisdom and all the pa¬ triotism in the State, and that the Legislature cannot be trusted to do its duty, held as they are responsible by the pepole, as they always have been and always will be in the future. I therefore trust, Mr. President, that we will consutne no more time undertaking to inject here, without consideration, a matter that has never been considered by any committee. A great deal can be said, and doubtless has been said about the members of the General Assembly having this tax first fifty cents and then reducing it to twenty-five, and putting it back to fifty- There is a diversity of opinion in the State about it. That is shown by the very action of the Legislature. It is shown by the very speech¬ es made on the floor of this Convention by the farmers who^ have addressed us. Let us offend none. Let us go on and keep it out of the Constitution. Leave it to the Legislature, and if these gentlemen feel that they are wronged, all they have to do is to appeal to that tribunal, and not load down a Constitution and make friends who are friends indeed to the general movement of re¬ vision, .sulk in their tents, and not be friends and supporters, arid feel that we have come here and turned the back of our hands upon these Agricultural Schools, whether right or wrong, and of- . fend those who believe it is right to maintain them. It is necessary for us to determine this question as to who is right and who is wrong, as to the proper amount to be paid out for in¬ spection, if you admit, as the amendment to the amendment un¬ dertakes to admit, that we should have an inspection. Can we not leave it to the Legislature to say what it should be? MR. MALONE—The gentleman refers to the change from fifty cents to twenty-five, and then the change from twenty-five to fifty. Does the gentleman know the working of the matter, by which it was changed from twenty-five to fifty? MR. HARRISON—I do not. I only know that it is a fact from current history MR. MALONE—Will you permit me to make a statement as to how it was done? MR. HARRISON—You have a right to the floor. I am about through. If you want to make a speech I will yield now MR. MALONE—It will not take but a second. MR. HARRISON—All right. MR. MALONE — The gentleman from Henry, Mr. Ward, moved to change it from twenty-five to fifty, and Mr. Williams from lower Henry agreed if you support my bill to put a court house at Dothan. I will support your bill. That is how it was done. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1083 MR. HARRISON—That is a very serious charge you are making. MR. MALONE—I give you the names, I do not hide the names. MR. HARRISON—I do not deny or affirm it. MR. JACKSON—Will my colleague from Lee allow me to make a statement? MR. HARRISON—Let me say this, I know the good people of Henry sent one of those gentleman back to the Legislature. THE PRESIDENT—Has the gentleman from Lee conclud¬ ed his argument? MR. HARRISON—I am just now done. MR. JACKSON—I just want to state— MR. WHITE—I make the point of order that two gentlemen from Lee cannot have the floor at the same time. MR. JACKSON — I make the point of order that my dis¬ tinguished colleague has yielded the floor for one minute to me. THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman is in order, and will proceed. MR. JACKSON—Now, Mr. President, I merely wanted to make this statement. In 1894 or 5, I think it was, I won t be positive about that, I know I was a member of the Legislature at the time, and at the request of the farmers of Alabania this tax was reduced from 50 to 25 cents. That bill was introduced here, sir, and passed, and it also passed the Senate, and by some means I don’t remember now how it was, except that I want to say this, it was not done like it was in the Shelby County case, the wrong .bill was carried to the Governor. A bill retaining the tax at 50 cents per ton was carried to the Governor, and that bill was ap¬ proved. Now I know as a matter of fact, Mr. President, that mem¬ bers of that Legislature went home and told the farmers that this tax had been reduced to 25 cents, and the papers came out and stated afterwards that it was 50 cents a ton, and upon inquiry it was found that through some mistake the Governor had s:o«en hold of the wrong bill. That is why it was made 50 cents a ton instead of 25 cents a ton. MR. HARRISON—Now, sir— MR. GILMORE—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Lee has consumed more than thirty minutes. 1084 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HARRISON — Governor Jones's amendment was not adopted yesterday. I was willing to be limited to five minutes, but I thought you all wanted me to speak half an hour. MR. PETTUS — I have listened with much interest to the long debate on this important question, and it seems to me that those who advocate the amendment introduced by the gentleman from Pike, and the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Henry, have made statements upon the floor of this Convention which would lead one to believe that the farmers of the State of Alabama are standing as a solid phalanx and demanding that some such provision as this be put into the organic law of the State. From the way the gentlemen speak on that side of the question, one would think that the farmers cannot get justice at the hands of anybody except the farmers who happen to be upon this floor, but it occurs to me, Mr. President, that some of the most eloquent advocates of this amendment have been the lawyers upon the floor of this convention, and the author of the first amendment is as I understand it a lawyer, as is also the author of the second amendment. So I do not think there is anything in an argument or an appeal of that character. Another suggestion has been made, which it seems to me is altogether improper, because it is not putting the argument nor the discussion upon that high plane which it should occupy, and that by insinuation or inuendo to make it appear that members who oppose this amendment upon this floor, are opposing it from selfish motives. It is not my purpose to cast aspersions upon any delegate, or upon the motive of any man who advocates a measure upon the floor of this Convention, but since it has been charged that the corporations and dealers who manufacture and sell fer¬ tilizers are interested in having this tax repealed and reduced it seems to me that if it is an argument to say that a member who opposes it comes from a county, as I do, that has an agricultural school, that it is equally as good an argument to say that the member proposing the amendment comes from a county that contains one of the biggest fertilizer factories in the State of Ala¬ bama, and I say that without any reflection upon the gentleman— MR. SAMFORD (Pike) — Thas same statement has been made on this floor before, and I want to state to the gentleman from Limestone, and to the gentleman from Russell, that I am not in any way connected with the fertilizer factory at Troy, and have never had and do not now own a dollar’s worth of stock in it. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Limestone has the floor, and unless he consents to an interruption— MR. PETTUS—I am very glad to consent for the gentle¬ man's question of privilege, and as I stated, I mean no reflection upon him. I was simply answering the argument in the same manner in which it has been made; that he comes from a county CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1085 that has a fertilizer factory, and I come from one that has an ag¬ ricultural school, and I do not doubt that his motives are alto¬ gether correct, and altogether pure. Now, Mr. President, it seems to me that this tag tax is in the nature of a license tax. We have license taxes, as has been stated by other delegates, upon peddlers, upon sewing machine agents, on corporations, and we have various licenses and privilege taxes of this character, but so far as I am informed this is the only li¬ cense tax a large part of which is spent for the purpose of seeing that the goods which are licensed to be sold, are kept up to a high standard of purity and excellence. Now as far as the agricultural schools are concerned, criti¬ cism has been indulged upon those institutions, but so far as I can gather from the debate, Mr. President, the criticism has been made at the administration of the schools and has not gone to the merit of the question. These schools are comparatively new institutions in the State of Alabama, and it is admitted that they are doing a great work for the education of the children of this State. They arc patronized by nearly all of the counties in the State of Ala¬ bama, and when they were established in the respective towns in which they are situated, those towns and counties made valu¬ able donations and concessions in property, and money, to the State of Alabama, and it certainly would be unjust and improper at this-time for this Convention of the peoj^le of Alabama to strike down their part of the contract and put the State of Alabama in the attitude of violating an apparent contract. MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee) — Is it not a fact that the property that has been given to the State is revcrtible in case the State sees fit to use it, and it can be used for local schools? MR. PETTUS—Such is not any understanding of the propo¬ sition. Now, Mr. President, as to the question of who is benefited should this tax be reduced. I am informed when it was reduced to 25 cents, that the farmers and those who bought fertilizers at retail, did not reap any benefit from it. Now, if you reduce it, and admitting that the consumer pays the tax. and by computation you find it only amounts to 5 cents per sack, a large proportion of which is paid, as stated by the gentleman from Talladega, by the colored tenants of this State, and it is abcuit the only tax that most of those colored tenants pay, I do not believe, Mr. President, if this fertilizer i.s selling at $2 per sack now, and you ieduce this tax, that any wholesale or retail dealer is going to reduce the price per sack to $1.95. I believe if the tax is reduced, that the manufact¬ urer and dealer will continue to reap the reward, as they have been doing. Now, Mr. President, it seems to me that thi.s is not the time nor the place to go into the merits of this question. It seems to 1086 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS me whether right or wrong, we should refer this matter to the General Assembly of Alabama, where it originated, and which is the proper forum in which to settle it. I am not one of those, Mr. President, who join in the general criticism of one of the great co-ordinate branches of our State government. It is true that General Assemblies, as well as other human institutions, have laid themselves liable to criticism in the past, and will do so in the future, and I doubt not that this distinguished aggregation of brains, talent and patriotism, which sets itself up here in some in¬ stances, it seems to hedge about and limit the General Assembly, the Executive and Judicial Departments, so that none of them can do any wrong, I doubt not that even this body may hear the voice of criticism before its work is completed, because the Con¬ vention, too, is human, and is liable to err. Now, Mr. President, it seems to me that we should refer this matter to the Legislature, which is the forum of the people. The members of the General Assembly come fresh from the people, and I think that it is a body that can be trusted to do right, to cor¬ rect any wrong that may have been perpetrated in the past, and to do right in the future, and they are responsible to the people and it seems to me that a distrust of the General Assembly of Ala¬ bama is little short of distrust of the people themselves. MR. O NEAL (Lauderdale) — Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. PETTUS—Certainly. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—Was the repeal of this tax made an issue in the last canvass for the Constitutional Convention? MR. PEPTUS No, sir; it was not. But one issue was in the campaign that called this Convention to sit here, and that was that no backward step should be made in education in the State of Alabama. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—^^^ill the gentleman permit a ques¬ tion? MR. PETTUS—Certainly. MR. SAMFORD—I would like to know what information the gentleman has with reference to the issues that were made in the wire-grass section of this State with reference to this matter. MR. PETTUS I have the general sources of information. The newspapers of the State, and I have never seen anything of that character intimated, and it certainly was not in the platform of the Democratic party, but in the platform of the Democratic party, Mr. President, and the Democratic organization, was laid down the broad and comprehensive plank that no backward step should be taken in matters of education, and it seems to me that CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1087 if the gentleman from Pike, or any other delegate on this floor would rise up and strike down the agricultural schools or any other well established educational institution in the State of Alabama, that he would be violating that plank of the Democratic platform, upon which he was elected. MR. BURNS (Dallas)—Will the gentleman allow a question? MR. PETTUS—Certainly. MR. BURNS—Would you call saving seventy-five thousand dollars a year to the farmers of Alabama a backward step? MR. PETTUS—No, sir; I say a backward step in Alabama would be to strike down these nine district agricultural schools in the State of Alabama, and I do not think the distinguished delegate can show that the repeal or revision of this tax would in any way save seventy-five thousand dollars to the farmers of Ala¬ bama. MR. GREER—Has any member on the floor of this Conven¬ tion favored or advocated the striking down of nine agricultural schools in Alabama? MR. PETTUS—Whether or not they have advocated it in so many words, Mr. President, the effect of their speeches and the effect of the amendments that are proposed will be to strike down these agricultural schools. MR. GREER (Calhoun) — That is simply a difference of opinion and judgment. MR. PETTUS—Well, you are at liberty to take advantage of the difference of opinion. Now, as I was saying in regard to distrust of the people and of the General Assembly of the State, it seems to me that this body should be one of the last to so distrust the people and to so distrust their representatives assembled in the General Assembly, for there are about one-third of the members on this floor that have at various times had the honor to serve in that branch of the State government, and barring myself, Mr. President, some of them are the most able and distinguished members on the floor of this Convention. It seems to me that if we are to be Don Quixote, and are to charg'e every windmill that appears upon the floor of this Convention, we will be sitting here until Christmas. I am willing to stay as long as necessary for delegates to remain for the purpose of considering matters that are proper and perti¬ nent to be considered and put into the Constitution of the State of Alabama, but it seems to me we should not attempt to legis¬ late upon every subject and every topic, and should not assume jurisdiction of matters which belong properly and should belong exclusively to the province of the General Assembly of Alabama. jQgg OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR PALMER—We have had this subject pending for near¬ ly three days. It is a very simple thing to arrange the matter E the gentlemen of the Convention wiU look at it m a practicable, sensible Avay. The gentleman from Talladega made a very elo¬ quent and impressive speech, showing the advantage of this tax and the amount of it, the advantages of the schools, and the cost of the buildings, and halls. I made my maiden ^^peech m th^s Convention two days ago on this same then I would say nothing more in this Convention until it a journed. There is very little difference of opinion in this matter if you look at it right. There is derived from this tax between seventy-five thousand and one hundred thousand dollars, ^-strike this down at o^ will be a serious blow to the amount of that are collected this State in a year. Let us go back to the bottom of the thi g. Auburn was unfortunately selected as the site Methodists of the State of Alabama ^^ve the buildings to the a^^^ ricultural school of the State as a present. The Agricultural i^oi lege ought never to have been established at Auburn. It oug o have been put in one of the back counties, upon the edge of the sandy land^, and it ought to have been made strictly an agricul¬ tural and mechanical school. The shops there are perfec • best in the South. The ^gTicultural department is not what it should be, looking at it from the standpoint of a to meet this difficulty, had established through the Legislature, n^nr^anch schools throughout the State, in order that agriculture might be taught in every district in the State. Now when a corps of Wsicians are called to treat a wound, that is ^ ing and inflammation has set up to a great degree, the first thing IhfV do is to clean the sore and then apply the antiseptic treat¬ ment Now, as far as this tax is concerned, from the standpoint of a farmer, so far as the intelligent part of the fartning interests are concerned, they care nothing about the tax, provided the mon¬ ey is applied to the purpose for which it should go. MR. WEATHERLY—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a question? MR. PALMER—Yes, sir. MR WEATHERLY—I remember the remark made by the gentleman from Washington the other day, in opening his speech, that we were all trying to do right and wanting to do right, pro¬ vided we got the correct information. Now I want to ask him, who is it that pays this tax? MR PALMER—I will answer that. The consumer pays it. It is the policy of the United States that where goods are pro¬ tected, the consumer pays the tax. Now, so far as the tax is concerned, that is a small matter with the farmers. As I say cleanse these sores and make these CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1089 schools, at Auburn and elsewhere, what the people demand they should be. Now these schools are youn^ institutions, they have just been established, and the building's were put up at a great expense to the towns they are in. The lands have been donated. I have visited one of them repeatedly and when I said in my speech the other day they were not agricultural schools in the sense of the word, but they could be made agricultural schools and I do not want to strike them down. I do not want them abolished. I want them encouraged. MR. BULGER—How much time do you think it would re¬ quire to make them agricultural schools? MR. PALMER—That depends upon the amount of energy, interest and money they have got. MR. JACKSON—The time has nearly arrived for the ad¬ journment. I move a suspension of the rules so that the gentle¬ man can finish his speech. There were expressions of dissent manifested. MR. PALMER — Gentlemen you make these schools what they ought to be, what they are intended to be, and you won’t hear one word of complaint from the farmers of this State. They want the schools. They need the schools. They will submit to any taxation. They will submit to any sacrifice to support them, and to up-build agriculture m this State. I do not see any other way, gentlemen; the schools are new, the buildings have just been put up, and the thing has just start¬ ed, and I move to table the whole thing, and let it go to the Legis¬ lature. (Applause.) MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—Upon that motion I demand the ayes and noes. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—The gentleman from Washing¬ ton at the conclusion of his speech moved to table both the amend¬ ments. MR. GREER (Calhoun)—The hour for adjournment has ar¬ rived. A DELEGATE—I move we adjourn. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state the question if the gentlemen will be seated. The gentleman from Washington moves to lay on the table the pending amendment, and upon that the gentleman from Pike calls for the ayes and noes. 1090 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. OPP—I would like to ask the gfentleman to withdraw his motion. (There were expressions of dissent.) I desire to state that I have been here thirt)^ days and have not consumed a mom¬ ent’s time of this Convention. Cries of '‘leave.” MR. REESE—I make a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The hour of adjournment has arrived. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move that the rules be sus¬ pended. MR. JACKSON—I rise to a point of order. The clock having- struck the hour of 1, the President made announcements of several committee meeting’s and the Conven¬ tion adjourned until 3 p. m. AFTERNOON SESSION The convention was called to order by the President, and the roll being called showed the presence of 114 delegates. Mr. Winn endeavored to secure recognition. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair understood the gentleman from Washington to withdraw temporarily his motion to table? MR. PALMER—I don’t want to be instrumental in placing the gag law on the Convention. I think every man who wants to speak should be allowed to do so. The gentleman to my left, (Dr. Winn) and Mr. Greer and Mr. Opp, asked me specially to withdraw so that they can speak. If that is in order I am willing to do it. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Washington can withdraw his motion— MR. PALMER—For those three men, if they will renew it. I think every man in the House has his mind made up on this matter. MR. BULGER—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Washington has the power to withdraw the motion to lay on the table, but he has not the power to say who shall or shall not speak on the subject. The president—T he point is well taken. The delegate from Washington withdrew his motion to table. MR. WINN—I rise to support the amendment of the gentle¬ man from Pike. I shall have to do this in the manner I am accus- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1091 tomed to doing in my profession. I know of but one way to ex¬ amine a question. It is like examining a patient that is wounded. The first thing you must do where there is serious sickness is to remove all the clothing and get next to you^ patient. There have been a great many dressings of eloquence put on this but it has all been in the line of obscuring the question that is involved in this. Those who have opposed the amendment has persistently discussed, w^hat will be the effects on these comqiunities and schools that have benefited by the tax if we withdraw it? That is not the question. The question is simply one of justice. Is the tax just. Let us look at it and see who it taxes. It taxes simply one class of the citizenship of the State. The tax is imposed di¬ rectly and only upon the farming interests of the country. No¬ body else. And what becomes of the money? Is it expended solely in the interests of the farmer? Not at all. No one has con¬ tended that is true. Is it expended for the good of the public gen¬ erally. Now here are $96,000 this year. I got this memorandum from the Department of Agriculture. The expense of the Agri¬ cultural Department according to the statement of that Depart¬ ment, including fairs, is $9,000 out of that $96,000. That leaves $87,000 to be heard from. Now let us see what becomes of that. Twenty-seven thousand five hundred dollars goes to the Agri¬ cultural Schools, these nine wonderful schools we hear of. The gentleman from Washington told us what a wonderful school one of them was. He visited it. Then where is the balance of this money? Sixteen thousand dollars goes to the Agricultural and Mechanical College at Auburn. That leaves $43,500. What be¬ comes of that? Converted into a general fund. What position does that put the farmer in? It is simply collecting that much more tax, $96,000, out of him as a class than you collect out of the balance of the citizenship of this State. Is that just? My friend from Henry has been accustomed to being gouged in this way so long that he simply begs the question by saying, ‘'Don't gouge so much." That is not right. If they have the right, if it is just, that they can collect 10 cents a ton on fertilizers from us, then if they need it they can take 50 cents or $1 or any other amount. Remem¬ ber that all this time the farmer shirks nothing. There is nothing that he has that is not listed and taxed as every other citizen in the State. Then, why in the name of justice and common sense can you turn upon the farmer and tax him out of $96,000 more? I cannot understand how it ever was done. There is certainly no semblance of justice or equity in this and if I understand any¬ thing about the laws upon the basis of which Alabama is ground¬ ed they are equal justice and equal taxation to every man and every citizen regardless of what his vocation in life is. Is it pos¬ sible that the proceeds, the wonderful income and wonderful profits from agriculture in this State so far exceed those of any other avocation in the State that it is just? Is that where you get your justice? That is not the record of the farmers. With the vast majority of them, it is a struggle from year to year to 1092 OFFICIAL PROCEEDIN(jS , • f -I- ^ ^.<:■rv humble wav. And I tell you it i.s JofJhestn^g'rfi:' tamers that get the bulk o( the benefit of these not ttie siruss K ^ ^ ^ y::w“to‘s“i "S-tae^oH lo school and pay their bills. Now some of the poor fellows who happen to live close to the school house may be benefited some, but as a general thinjj it is the class that is better able to educate their children that is enjoying the advantage of this unjust tax. Now, the gentleman from Talladega tells us it is the negro mainly that pays this tag tax. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I said he paid a large part of it. MR. WINN—I stand corrected. And the gentleman said that he would stand here always and see that the negro was nc^ con¬ fined to the amount of tax he paid in for school purposes. Now I propose to stand here always and see, if that negro pays that tax, that he shall be treated more justly than he has been. Treat the negro with justice, take that tax off. Is not he a poor hard work¬ ing servant? Are you going to tax him with it because he is a negro and then stand up and say you will stay here always before he shall be confined for his education to the taxes that he pays into the State? Be just before you are generous. The gentleman further says we are under contract with these district schools. Be just by all means and keep these contracts. On whose money? Money wrenched from the farmer unjustly. He says you would not tear down these schools. No, I would not tear them down, but if I have to keep them up by an unjust tax upon any people of this Slate, then I say let them go. VVe are not discussing what would oe the result of doing an act of ju^ice. That is the question and let results take care of themselves. That is our duty. We have the power and we have the means to sup¬ port and sustain all the schools in this State of whatever char¬ acter we determine to maintain, and to hesitate, to halt for one moment in doing this simple act of justice to the farmer is some¬ thing I cannot comprehend. They say let this continue, don t raise any disturbance. That can be said of a great many things. They could say don’t interfere with the school appropriations or the surplus money in the treasury or a great lot of other things. Suppose this does raise some disturbance, will that prevent us from doing it if it is an act of justice? I hope not. I don’t propose to criticise the schools and I won’t do it ex¬ cept I may draw a little information from what my friend on the right has furnished me on his great school at Uniontown. He has ascertained another fact about the expenses of that school since he gave us the information the other day. He told us about that wonderful farm they had, the grape vine, twining around the house of civilization, and he told us about the tiles with one end stopped CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1093 up and they wouldn’t tile, and he told you of the salary of $1,600, but he didn’t tell you they had a doctor there at $1,200 a year MR. KNIGHT—And there never has been a pupil there. MR. WINN—No, and the only vocation that doctor had was to mark pigs. Now that’s the way the money goes. MR. WHITE—Will the gentleman allow me to make a sug¬ gestion? What difference does it make if it does go that way, no¬ body but the farmer pays it? MR. WINN—No, nobody but the farmer pays it. Plenty of money and no poor kin. I tell you, gentlemen, just people, the deeper you probe into this question the more apparent is the out¬ rageous injustice of it upon the farmers of Alabama. I appeal to you, gentlemen, of this Convention, to look at this matter se¬ riously and remember the only question involved in this is one of justice. If this tax is just and equitable, keep it; if it is unjust, if it is oppressive, if it is discriminate, wipe it out. One of the delegates says, “away with such narrowness.’’ My reply to that is away with your unjust tax. MR. LONG (Walker)—Does the gentleman take the posi¬ tion that the farmers alone pay this tax? MR. WINN—Yes, sir. MR. LONG (Walker)—Then I will ask the gentleman a fur¬ ther question: Is it or not a fact that the tax which the State im¬ poses on the doctors is paid by the patients? MR. WINN—We generally get what tax out of the patients they are able to psy, and others do the same. I am informed that the school at Marion is not a school at all only an experiment station. I reckon that is on the sa^me order a man with a salary of $1,600 and a doctor with $1,200. Now, gen¬ tlemen, I again for the last time appeal to you to consider this well and remember that the only question is as to the justice ot the tax. If the tax is just and legitimate, hold it, if it is discrimi¬ nate against the farmer, take it off. Though the heaven should fall, let justice prevail. MR. OPP—I did not intend to make a speech when I re¬ quested the Delegate from Washington to remove the parliamen¬ tary padlock from my mouth, but only desired to explain the vote I intended to give on the pending proposition. And I was con¬ siderably surprised at the acute parliamentary skill which had so suddenly been acquired by the gentleman from Washington. He led us to believe he was so innocent as to all this thing of parlia¬ mentary practice and I did not know he had so readily grasped the idea of cutting off debate; therefore, it fell like a bolt from the blue to hear a motion to table emanate from his supposedly untrained lips. 1094 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Now, Mr. President, as I said at the outset, I did not desire to make a speech. All I desired or contemplated was to put myself on record on this pending proposition. I desired that record to be writ large like John Hancock’s name to the Declaration of Inde¬ pendence, so that in future weeks or months, or years, it may rise before the fertilizer factories and those who represent them, when they are cackling and laughing at the adroit wa^^ in which they had flim-flammed the Constitutional Convention of Alabama. 1 de¬ sired it to be understood throughout the length and breadth of Alabama that Covington County had not been deluded by the fer¬ tilizer factories, and that she has seen and will continue to see clearly through the schemes they have sought to work u]>on the Constitutional Convention of Alabama. Now, Mr. President, I desire to be distinctly understood. In no syllable or word of mine do I desire to be understood as reflect¬ ing upon any gentleman who has advocated the contrary side of this question. I know them to be able, pure, honorable, honest men who are incapable of entertaining an improper thought or a dishonorable intention. But, Mr. President, I believe—I am firm¬ ly convinced that if you will look between the lines as the gentle¬ man well advised us to do, it will be discovered it is not the man with the hoe, it is not the man behind the plow, but it is the man behind the coupon clipper who is agitating this movement. Now, I desire to ask each gentleman of all these assembled here, was anything said about this pending proposition when the question was before the people of whether or not we should have this Constitutional Convention? Did any gentleman in any freak of imagination ever dream that a body of men assembled for the purpose of framing an organic law for the State of Alabama would devote its time and talents to the discussion of a proposition like this instead of ascending to the lofty and sunny heights where the people intended to place them? Here, under the focal and central glare of the light of civilization instead of building a noble and beautiful structure that should be the admiration of future years and all posterity, we are groveling among guano tracks and prov¬ ing false and recreant to the trust imposed upon us. I trust, Mr. President, we shall call a halt, that we will take a turn around ourselves and if some gentleman of towering talents can be found to lead us out of the wilderness, if he can “show us the way” to confine ourselves within constitutional bounds that gentleman will occupy a place in the hearts and gratitude of the people of Ala¬ bama, and Mr. President, like Ben Adhem, his name will lead all the rest. So I say the gist of the whole matter is this, that regardless of the merits of the proposition, this is something with which the Constitution of Alabama has nothing to do. It ought to be rele¬ gated to legislation. I desire to say that the dominating note, the basic principle of many of the propositions that have been advo- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1095 cated on this floor has been distrust of the Legislature which is illy in accord with the genius of our institutions, and I desire to thank the gentleman from Limestone for rising in his place and defending the Legislature of Alabama from the aspersions that have been so liberally showered upon that usually distinguished body of men. They are fresh from the loins of the people. They know the asperations of the common people; and if they can not understand the wants of the people, it is difficult to perceive how the gentleman from Pike and the gentleman from Henry, making goo-goo eyes at the Hill Billies can ever be induced to set them right on the matter of their dear duty. But Mr. President, whether it is amongst the denizens of the hills or the men you find as you move amidst the long arcades of stately whispering pines in Covington county, all of these men in every district of the State are looking to this body to build a Constitution for the State of Alabama. We must quit discussing matters purely legislative, salaries of Governors and things of that character, advocated by as talented men as they were. All things of this kind should be relegated to the General Assembly, because it is competent to deal with them, and it does not lie within the purview and scope of a Constitutional Convention of the State of Alabama. We are continually talking about consumption of time, and it is a strange thing that it is only those gentlemen who have spoken to the point of exhaustion who have become conscious of the fact that we are consuming too much time in debate. I de¬ sire to say in behalf of my constituency that whether we consume much or little time, whatever time is necessary should be gra¬ ciously and unquestioningly yielded to the deliberations of this body. If we stay in session from now until the withered leaves of November begin to rustle upon these pavements it is our duty to stay here at any and all sacrifices, to see that we have discharg¬ ed the high and holy trust imposed upon us by the people. And when I look upon this Convention of shrewd men, men who know the great history of Alabama, who know the aspirations of this Commonwealth, it is amazing to me that we should depart from the duty and task that has been set apart to us by the people of Alabama and, as well said on yesterday, devote ourselves to mat¬ ters of purely legislative detail. Why, after some time somebody will find out that some of the coroners do not receive sufficient pay for sitting on dead negroes and somebody will move to fix a fee of ten dollars for every dead darkey the coroners find and engraft it in the Constitution. But to return to the fertilizer proposition. I think there is a large and corpulent African in the wood pile and we have suffi¬ cient negroes to deal with already without dealing with the Sene- gambian aforesaid, and I trust, gentlemen, will remember that all of this legislation in behalf of fertilizers was originally con¬ ceived in a spirit of love for the farmer. Why, when the agitation 1(N6 Ol l-R'IAl, was first made- in l.chalf of K^-miinc Rrt.li/c-rs cvnvluxlv was threatened with dire penaU.es an.l j.ains il thev dnln vote for ,t. It was a movement in the interest of the aKnenltnral classes and tin- Hill Millies all swarmeu on Capitol Hill and the\ a 1 had their e-liihs with them and the emhryo statesmen were told that here is a movement in favor of the a,e;ricnltnral classes and il von don t sui)i)ort it with your voice and vote, and vonr mlhience. we will do YOU up. Coiisc(iueutl\, in (k-icrciuH' to the \\ i^nY> take and are threatening u^ with ihe same pains and pur- g-atorial penalties that tliev held siisptmded over our heads helore. 1 yield to no man in love foi tlu‘ tarnun* and 1 will sav ot the* doetoi or the lawyer or mercliant, in fact everxhodv who has a vote, and some who ha\e md. Now this is all I desire to say. 1 want to .i^'o tiixm record as reprcsentini^' the Democracy, or rather the ])eo])le of Coviipcfton Countx' as iieiiii^* op|)Osed to this mo\ enu*nt. 1 am o])])Osed to stiij^- matizini^ this Constitutional Convention hv a movement which seeks to blc)w ti]> and destroy the schools desii;ned and intended for purely unselfish and j^enerous pur])oses. 1 think voii .o*entle- nien all understand the merits of the ])C‘ndini 4 ' controversx’ and I do not feel that 1 or any man can add one jot or tittle to the able and luminous ar^i^oiment made by the i^entleman from Sylacaui^a. Ml\. (iRAHAM — 1 don't come from Sylacau^a. MR. OPP—Whatever i)lace the .e:entleman hails from is hon¬ ored in a hii^h decree. MR. PURNS—I rise to ask the .e:entleman a (luestion. dkH K PRhvSlDENT —Does the .e^entlenian from Covington yield to the question? MR. —Yes, it is customary. MR. PURNS—I would ask the i^entleman if he is aware that when Mr. Hawkin> and the rc])rcsentative farmers advocated this measure, tlie>' believed and honestly believed that these would be agricultural schools instead of sucli as they now are? MR. ()PP—1 desire to say to the gentleman, who is a rare compound of Justinian and Josh Ihllings (immense ap])lause) that I am wholly ignorant of Mr. Hawkins's connection wn'th the pend¬ ing controx ersv ; knoxv little and care less. 'Phe (piestion we are dealing with is just this, aside from the humor, xvhich the al¬ ways humorous gentleman from Dallas is injecting into this con¬ troversy, that the great and crucial (piestion is simply this: Shall we come down to brass tacks and build a Constitution for the State of Alabama or shall we descend to guano taxes, butter taxes, cheese taxes and other things of that sort? I say without dis- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVI'',NTI< )N. T>01 rc\si)i’ct to any j^entlcinaii. because it is easy to be luirned bevond our orig'inal iuteutiou ui^on the flood tide of tliis and sitnilai de¬ bates. that it is high time we were side-trackiuj*' all these imma¬ terial issxies; and if the farmers or any other ool for a boy. It has no business in the Constitution. We can¬ not put all the legislation in the Constitution that is needed. The delegates on this floor seem to ignore the fact that everything we leave out of the Constitution we leave for the people. Everything that you leave out of the Constitution is left to the people. Ev¬ erything that you put in the State Constitution is a shackle upon the people. Now you delegates love the people, so leave this thing out of the Constitution and let the people settle it. Why do you want to bind and gag them, when there is not one farmer in ten in Alabama who want any reduction in this tax. Now, Mr. President, I do not desire to take longer time upon this Section. I did not intend to make a speech on it at all, but it sounds to me so ridiculous that men should get up here and make this appeal for the farmer, when I dare say there is not a man that handles guano in the United States but would gladly see this in the Constitution. It is a mistake to say that the farmers pay the tax. Do the patients pay the tax of $5 on the doctor for practicing medicine? As I asked the gentleman from Barbour, when they tax him $5 to practice medicine, does he charge it to his patient, and if the tax was taken off, would the doctor’s fees be any less? The lawyers are taxed in many of our municipalities, $5, $10 and $20 to practice law. If you took that tax off would the lawyers’ fees come down? Merchants are taxed for the pur¬ pose of doing business in municipalities, and they are taxed by the State. Take that tax off and would the price of goods decline? Do the farmers pay it? Why gentlemen, if you look at it fairly in the face, you know that the sum is too insignificant, and that they do not pay. When Alabama reduced the tax ten years ago to 25 cents, did the price of guano fall? Not one penny. When it was restored to 50 cents, did the price of guano increase? Not one penny. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1107 MR. BURNS (Dallas)—Will the gentleman allow a question? MR. LONG (Walker)—Yes sir. MR. BURNS — Although there are lots of dealers in such stuff, I have been trying to ^ei hold of some for two years. I want to know where I can g^et some guano? MR. LONG (Walker)—Some people have to give mortgages to buy it. Some people pay cash for it. I don’t know, but you can buy it if your credit is good. MR. BURNS—ril pay in advance for it, if you tell me where to get it. MR. LONCx (Walker) — You can buy guano right here in Montgomery, and you will find some stores selling it probably 40 or 50 cents a ton cheaper than others if you will look around. MR. BURNS—Guano? MR. LONG (Walker)—Yes, guano. Now, Mr. President, I think we have taken up enough time on this question, and I think it is now time to take a vote on it. I therefore renew the motion made by the gentleman from Wash¬ ington to lay the original proposition, the amendment, and the amendment to the amendment on the table. MR. MALONE—I rise to a question of privilege. I made a statement a while ago as to what was the law' in the State of Geor¬ gia, and the member denied it. I w^ould like to verify the state¬ ment by the Code of Georgia. Section 1552 reads— MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that a con¬ tradiction between a man who is interested in the sale of guano and myself is a matter that can be settled outside of this Conven¬ tion. I make the point of order that it is out of order now, because I have called for the previous question and moved to lay the orig¬ inal proposition, the amendment, and the amendment to the amendment, on the table. MR SAMFORD (Pike)—1 began this fight, and stirred up this discussion, and I would like the privilege of making a few re¬ marks. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The grentleman from Pike is out of order unless the gentleman from Walker will withdraw his motion. MR LONG (Walker)—I will not yield, Mr. President. I don’t want to cut off anybody that wants to debate this question, but we have taken a great deal of time on it. 1108 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The g-entleman from Walk¬ er moved to lay the amendment to the section, and the amend¬ ment to the amendment on the table. MR. SAMEORD (Pike)—And I demand the ayes and noes. The call for the ayes and noes was sustained. MR. PARKER (Elmore)—I call for a division of the question. There Avere expressions of dissent to the call. MR. ESPY—Certainly the delegate has a right to have this question divided. There may be a great many gentlemen here that might vote for the amendment, that would not vote for the original proposition. MR. PETTUS—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. PETTUS—The gentleman from Walker moves to table both amendments, and the Chair has repeatedly held that was a matter in the discretion of the gentleman making the motion, and a call for a division is in order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair so rules. MR. GREER Calhoun)—I rise to a question of inquiry. The Chair rules that there can be no division of the question? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair ruled the motion of the gentleman from Walker was in order to table the amend¬ ment, and the amendment to the amendment, and it was in the discretion of the gentleman from Walker as to whether or not he would permit a division of the question. MR. BULGER—I would like to hear the gentleman to my right (Mr. Espy) read. The amendment was read. Upon the call of the roll— MR. CARMICHAEL (Coffee)—I am paired with Mr. Hinson, and if he were present he would vote aye, and I would vote no. MR. McMILLAN (Wilcox)—I am paired with the gentle¬ man from Jefferson, Dr. Cunningham, and if he were present he would vote aye, and I would vote no. The vote resulted as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1109 Ashcraft, Heddow, Beth line, Boone, Brooks, Browne, Burnett, Carnathan, Cobb, Coleman, of Greene, Craig, deGraffenreid, liyster, Ferguson, Foster, Glover, Graham, of Montgomery, (/raham, of Talladega, Grant, Greer, of I^erry, Harrison, Hood, Howze, Total—68. Almon, Altman, Ranks, Barefield, Bartlett, Beavers, Blackwell, Bulger, Burns, Byars, Cardon. Carmichael, of Coffee, Case, Chapman, Cofer, Coleman, of Walker, Davis, of DeKalb, Espy, Fitts, Fletcher, Foshee, Total-~63. AYES. Inge, Jackson, j enkins, Jones, of Wilcox, Kirk, Kyle, Ledbetter, Locklin, Long, of Walker, Lowe, of Jefferson, McMillan (Baldwin), Martin, Merrill, Miller, of Wilcox, Morrisette, Norman, Norwood, Oates, O'Neal, of Lauderdale, O'Neill (Jefferson), Opp, Palmer, l^arker, of Cullman, NOES. Freeman, Gilmore, Grayson, Greer, of Calhoun, Haley, Handley, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Henderson, Jones, of Bibb. Jones, of Hale, Knight, Leigh, Lowe, of Lawrence, MacDonald, Malone, Maxwell, Miller, of Marengo, Moody, Mulkey, Murphree, I^arkcr, of Elmore, Pet t us, i^illans, Pitts, Robinson, Rogers, of Lowndes, Sam ford, Sanders, Selheimer, Sentell, Smith, of Mobile, Stewart, Tayloe, Waddell, Walker, Watts, Weakley, Williams, of Barbour, Williams, of Marengo, Wilson, of Clarke, Wilson, of Washington, O’Rear, Pearce, Phillips, l^orter, Proctor, Reese, Reynolds (Henry), Rogers, of Sumter, Sanford, Searcy, Sloan, Smith, Mac A., Smith, Morgan M., Soliie, Sorrell, Spears, Spragins, Thompson, White, Whiteside, Winn, 1110 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Messrs. President, Carmichael, of Colbert, Cornwall, Cunningham, Davis, of Etowah, Dent, Duke, Eley, Hinson, Hodges, Howell, Jones, of Montgomery, King, Kirkland, Lomax, Long, of Butler, McMillan, of Wilcox, NeSmith, Renfro, Reynolds, of Chilton, Studdard, Vaughan, Willet, Williams, of Elmore. Before the announcement of the result, Mr. Sainford (Pike) chang-ed his vote from no to aye, for the purpose of moving a reconsideration tomorrow^ morning. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I make the point of order that the vote has not been announced. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I cannot change my vote after the result is announced. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair rules that the gentleman from Pike is in order. MR. WHITE—I now move to lay the motion of the gen¬ tleman from Pike on the table. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The motion is out of order at this time. The motion v/ill go over until in the morning. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order that you cannot make a motion to reconsider the vote on a rnotion to lay on the table. That decision wa.s made by the President of this Convention some days ago. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I then give notice that I will either make a motion to reconsider, or to take from the table, as the case may be. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair has ruled that the gentleman from Pike has the right to change his vote and to give notice to the Convention that on tomorrow he will make a motion to reconsider. The Chair announced that by a vote of sixty-eight ayes to sixty-three noes the amendment and the amendment to the amend¬ ment were laid upon the table. Mr. Samford (Pike) secured recognition— MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I yield to the gentleman from Jef¬ ferson. MR. LONG (Walker)—I will ask what is before the House? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1111 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The question before the House is the consideration of the original section of the report of the Committee on Taxation, Section 1, and the Clerk will read the amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 1 of Article II, as rei)orted by the Committee on Taxation, by adding after the wc)rd “value” in the fifth line of said section, the following : “no tax for inspecting any merchandise or commodity' shall be imposed or collected, in excess of an amount sufficient to pay' f(^r the actual cost of the inspection thereof.” MR. HARRISON—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.-—The gentleman from Lee will state the point of order. MR. HARRISON—I would like to invite the attention of the President, in order to keep our records right, if I understand the rule of the permanent President, the motion of the delegate front Pike, to reconsider a motion to lay on the table, as clearly not in order, under Rule 27. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The Chair understood the gentleman from Pike to finally' state that he changed his vote from no to aye, in order that he might move tomorrow for a re¬ consideration. MR. HARRISON—I desire to read, or ask the Chair to read Rule 27. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The Chair would be glad to read the rule, if he is in error. MR. SAMP'ORD (Pike)—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The gentleman will state the point. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—The gentleman from Lee has no right to make his point of order now because that is a question that will come up tomorrow when I make the motion, and it is not before the House at this time, but the gentleman from Jef¬ ferson is addressing the Convention upon an entirely different proposition. THP: PRESIDP:NT pro TEM.—I think that the gentleman from Lee can raise the point of order on tomorrow. Perhaps the Chair is in error. MR. HARRISON—If the Chair desires, I can read the rule. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I rise to a point of order. 1112 OFFICIAL PROCEKDINCES THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The Chair thinks the gen¬ tleman is not in order, but that the point of order can he made on tomorrow. MR. HARRISON—I raise the ])()int of order then, Mr. Presi¬ dent, that the amendment offered l)y the gentleman from Jeffer¬ son, as I understand it, is the same that has just l^een tal)led. MR. WHITE—I call for the reading of tlie amendment. It is an entirely different proposition, and if the g'entleman will listen to it he will so understand it. The proposed amendment was a^ain read. MR. BOONE—I make the further point of order that this is not ,q-ermane to Section 1, which we are considering'. vStetion 1 provides for laying- an ad valorem tax, as reported by the Com¬ mittee on Taxation, and the amendment is in the nature of a s])ecial, or privilege tax, which is not germane to Section 1. THI^ PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Jefferson will pro¬ ceed. MR. BOONlv—What is the ruling of the Chair u])on the point of order? THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The point of order the Chair understands the gentleman from Mobile to make is that the amend¬ ment is not germane to the subject under consideration. MR. BOONE (Mobile)—Exactly, because one is an ad va¬ lorem tax, and the other is a special tax, and a special tax, as has often been decided by our Supreme Court is not such an one as is defined by that section of the Constitution which requires all taxes to be equal. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The Chair would not like to make a ruling on that question, or rather the Chair would not like to decide that point. It is a matter for the Convention to determine when they vote upon this amendment to the question. MR. WHITE (Jefferson)—Really, Mr. President this amend¬ ment is exactly what I wanted. I advocated the amendment of the gentleman from Pike because it was the only thing before the House, but this amendment limits the power of taxation upon any merchandise or commodity for the purpose of inspection to an amount which will not exceed the cost of the inspection. I want to say, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Conven¬ tion, that while much of the argument that has been made here¬ tofore is entirely appropriate to this amendment, it may not all be so, but I understand to say that when any article of mer¬ chandise or other commodity is taxed, for inspection, then there should not be levied any other tax on that except for the purposes CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1113 of the inspection, where the inspection is needed. Any further tax than that is usurpation pure and simple. None of the arg^u- ment which has been made. Mr. President, in opposition to this measure- MR. KYLE—Will the gentleman permit an interruption? MR. WHITE—Yes. MR. KYIvE—Is there an ad valorem tax on guano? MR. WHITE—Certainly there may he an ad valorem tax on guano. It is a tax on merchandise, like any other merchandise in a man’s store. MR. KYLE—I have heard gentlemen who handle it say that there is not. MR. WHITE—It is because the Tax Assessor has not done his duty, if there is not. Now, the opponents of this measure have not made the argu¬ ment what tax does the farmer, or what tax does the merchant payx Why, he pays all the taxes, on all his property, that any other property pays in Alabama, and why' should a commodity^ or a ])iece of merchandise be taxed in adelition to that for general purposes? Does not the farmer pay taxes upon his land, his agri¬ cultural implements, and his stock which he uses upon the farm? If he i)ays that, has he not paid as much as any other man who has property assessable for taxation in Alabama? Hasn’t he paid as much as the mine owner? Hasn’t he paierty or property, putting the granting of pensions into the organic law? Since the gentleman hands it back to me. I say it is in direct conflict with that section. THIRTY-FIRST DAY MONTGOMERY. ALA., June 27, 1901. The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President, and opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Lamar, as follows: Oh Lord, our God, recognizing- Thy authority in all things, thanking Thee for the privilege of beginning and continuing and ending all our works in Thee, and Thy guidance to these thy servants in the labors which engage their hands, we pray Thee our Father that Thou wouldst direct them in all wisdom, that the work may be such as Thou alone canst establish by Thy blessing, .'^uch as will inure to the welfare of our people, such as will tend to give us long years of peace and prosperity. We pray that Thy blessing may rest upon each one of these Thy servants. May they be men who look to righteousness and seek with a single eye the good of the Commonwealth. Bless them we pray Thee in all their interests, in their families, in all that concerns them. May Thy protecting Providence be above this body this day. May their labors be such. O Lord, we pray Thee as they shall be proud of in the years to come, and as shall make the people rejoice. Accept us in this our prayers, forgive our sins and save us for the Re¬ deemer’s sake, amen. Upon call of the roll one hundred and forty delegates re¬ sponded to their names. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1117 Leaves of absence were granted to Mr. Handley, indefinitely, on account of sickness; to Mr. Lowe (Lawrence), for today and tomorrow; Mr. Altman for today; Mr. Renfro for today, Friday and Saturday; Mr. Duke for yesterday; for Mr, Jones (Montgom¬ ery) for today. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I desire to explain, Mr. Presi¬ dent, that I am an officer of the State Bar Association which meets tomorrow, and have to prepare a paper for that occasion, otherwise I would not ask the leave of absence. PRESIDENT—The gentleman has been so constant in his attendance the Chair believes no explanation is necessary. MR. JONES Montgomery)—I desire further to say to my friends who jocularly suggest that 1 am dodging the pending ques¬ tion, that I am paired with my friend, Mr. White of Jefferson. MR. FLETCHER—I desire to ask consent to have the article on Banks and Banking made a special order after the article on State and County Boundaries. I su])pose it would come up in its regular order, but it seems necessary to set it down as a special order, and I move that it be set down for consideration after the article on State and County Boundaries. Upon a vote being taken the motion was carried. The report of the Committee on the Journal was read, stating that the Journal for the thirtieth day had been examined and found to be correct, and upon motion the report was adopted. MR. WADDELL—I move that we dispense with the regular order and proceed with the consideration of the question which was pending when the House adjourned on yesterday afternoon. MR. OATES—I have no opposition to that provided the gen¬ tleman will make an exception so that I may submit the report of my committee. MR. WADDELL—I will withdraw the motion for the present. MR. OATES—I ask permission to submit the report of the Committee on Legislative Department. Mr. Foster—The Committee on Amending the Constitution asks unanimous consent to send in its report. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will have to hold the report until the Convention receives the report of the Committee on Legislative Department. The Clerk will read the report. The report of the Committee on Legislative Department was thereupon read as follows: Report of the Committee on the Legislative Department. 1118 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Mr. President. The Committee on Legislative Department instruct me to report the accompanying ordinance to supply the place of the ar¬ ticle to the present Constitution on the subject. Without deeming it neces.sary to report specially upon the numerous ordinances and resolutions referred to it, the committee has carefully considered them, and substantially embodied in the new article a number of the propositions which they embrace. The ordinance herewith reported will show to what e.Ktent their provision have been adopted. These ordinances and resolutions are herewith respectfully returned. The provisions of the following Sections of Article IV of the present Constitution are recommended for adoption without change- 4. 6. 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19. 21. 25 . 26. 28. 30. 33. 34. 35 36, 39, 40. 41, 43, 44. 47. 48, 50, 51, 53, 55 and 56 down to and including Section 7, they have identified numbers in both articles. From 10 to 20 inclusive the corresponding matter is incorporated in sections of the new article numbered in each instance one less than the old from 25 to 28 inclusive three less, and after 28 two less. In the following statement the material changes recommended by your committee are set forth in the order to which they relate to sections of article IV of the present Constitution, as numbered therein. To conform to the usual and popular expression, the title of the Legislative Department is changed in Section 1 from “Ceneral As.sembly to Legislature. This amendment extends throughout the article. By an addition to Section 2 the enacting clause of the bills etc., is not to be repeated, but sectional divisions are to be made, and designated by figures merely. This is done in the interest of brevity, and to prevent needless formality in the style of enact¬ ments. Section 3 is changed in the respect that the terms of Repre¬ sentatives and Senators alike shall be four years. The provisions of Section 9 for issuance of writs of election by the (Governor to fill vacancie.s is transposed to Section 3. Provision is made that Senators and Representatives shall be elected by the qualified electors on the first Monday in August, 1902, and every four years thereafter, unless the Legislature shall change the time of holding elections; and that the terms of office of both Senators and Repre¬ sentatives shall be four years. However, as the Senators from the odd numbered districts have still two years to serve, the chair¬ man of this Committee recommends that the election of Senators in the even numbered districts at the general election in 1902 shall CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1119 be for the term of two years only, and that thereafter all the Sena¬ tors and Representatives shall be elected to serve f2. The Legislature shall ne\er pass any law to authorize or legalize any marriage of any white person and a negro or descendants of a negro to llie third generation inclusive, though the ancestor of each genera¬ tion he a white t>erson- Sec. o3. 'riie Legislature shall provide by law for the regulation and reasonable restraint of trusts, monopolies and combinations of capital so as to prevent them from making, ])y such artificial means articles of necessity, trade or commerce scarce or by increasing the cost tliereof to the consumer, or by preventing reasonable competition in any calling, trade or business. Sec. 04. The Senators and Kepresentatives shall, before entering c>n their cifficial duties, take the following oath to wit: “I., do solemnl}' swear (or afifrm as the case may be), that J will support the Constitutiou of the United States and of the State of Alabama, and par¬ ticularly observe and obey all the provisions of the latter relating to the Legislative Deparlment, to the best of my ability, so help me God.” MR. OATES—I promised and now ask that the delej^ate from Jeffers(jn. Mr. Weatlierly, have leave, if he see ijroper hereafter, to file a minority report as to Section 63 in re,ijard to trusts. He has not had the time to prepare it, and is not fully decided whether he will or not. hut lie has that riijlit reserved to him, if he sees pro])er to file it. I now ask that the report of the committee be printed, to- j^ether with the article sul)mitted, and that it l)e set down for hearinjr in the order of being reported, next after the last report .'submitted. MR. LONG (Walker)—I do not object to the entire report, as it is rather lengthy, but only to that part of the report which relates to representation. We have a Committee on Repre.senta- tion. and they are ready to report, and 1 hope inasmuch as it is in the present Constitution under the head of Legislative Depart¬ ment. if it is to be continued under that head. I hope the distin¬ guished Chairman will agree to consider that part of the report at the same time with the report of the Committee on Representa¬ tion. MR. (JATLS—-I am willing that your report may come in with this, right after this report. MR. LONG (Walker)—We just want to consider them to¬ gether. IMR. OATES—The report of that committee can follow the report of this, upon that subject. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1131 THE PRESIDENT — The gentleman from Montgomery moves that the report lie upon the table, with the ordinance re¬ ported, and that the gentleman from Jefferson be authorized to file a minority report, if he so desires. What time does the gen¬ tleman desire within which to file a minority report? MR. OATES—I presume one day. MR. BROOKS—Before that motion is put for the printing of the committee's report, I desire to rise to a question of privilege as to a matter which was before the committee. The section read just now by the Clerk, as reported from the committee, on the trust question, is not, and I desire to have the attention of the Chairman of the committee to what I am about to say, is not the section that was passed by the committee, or adopted by it. The members of the committee, and the Chairman will remember, that the ordinance on this subject was proposed by myself, and that after two separate votes on two distinct occasions, one where there was a long debate, the ordinance proposed by myself was adopted, the Chairman voting for it, stating at the time that he would endeavor to prepare a substitute which would be shorter than the ordinance proposed, which he thought too long, and I understood him to say that he would endeavor to prepare a substi¬ tute. MR. BOONE—I rise to a point of order. All that matter can be explained when the article is before this Convention for action. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is stating a question of privilege, and the Chair will hear the statement and necessarily must hear the statement before he can decide the question of privilege. MR. BROOKS—As I was about to continue, without the vote of the Chairman of the committee in favor of that proposition, it obtained a majority vote, and I make this point, that the report as it comes in now is not the report in fact as it was adopted by the committee as to that particular section, and I maintain that I have a right, as a member of this Convention, and as a member of that committee, to bring the matter before this Convention, so that I may have a proper report of what was the action of the committee as to that particular section. Now sir, if I have that right, then I want the proposition as it passed the committee, to be printed as a part of that report, and not an entirely different one. Now I understand from a conversa¬ tion with my friend on yesterday, that he was preparing a substi¬ tute, which I supposed would be offered as an amendment, but certainly not as a part of the report of the committee. THE PRESIDENT—Does the distinguished gentleman from Mobile move for a certiorari to bring up the papers? (Laughter.) 1132 OFFlClAL PROC FEDIN GS AIR. BROOKS—I move this, Mr. President: 1 niove tliat the section which was a(lo[)ted l)y tlie committee be printed alono- with the other and 1 ask the Cliairjnan of llie Committee' to state if 1 am not statin^^ the facts as they are. MR. (AATES—The deleg-ate fiasm Mobile states the fact std)- stantiallys except in this, as to which I think he is sli|:^-litly mis¬ taken; that wdien tlie la.st vote was taken in the committee 1 voted against the striking* out and putting* aside of his ]jroposition, stating at tlw time that 1 cottid im])ro\ e it I thouglvt, bv making' it briefer, and therefore [ would vote against laying it aside. I thought tlie delegate from Moliile understood and acce|)ted this view, and that I was delegated l)y the committee to jirepare a sulistitute. But, in order that all differences may lie set at rest, 1 will ask tfiat his ordinance, which was adopted by the committee, lie firinted along with the report, for the satisfaction of himself and others. \\ bile 1 think J drafted the section expressive of the sulistance of wliat was done by the committee, but in much briefer form, I will ask, as the delegate from Aloliile insists that his proposition ought to go before the Convention, that his ordinance, which tlie committee ado])ted in fact, be printed to folloAv this report, tlial he may have the benefit of it. MR. XeSMIl\H—I voted against the ordinance of the gentle¬ man from Alolnle, and stated that I would join in a minority re- [)ort, but 1 do not care to discuss the matter, except to sa}* if the ordinance is made a part of the committee’s report I would like to reserve the right to join in the minoritv report. AIR. ROGERS (Sumter)—I would like to ask the chairman of tlie committee a question. ACe are not to understand that you endorse the ordinance introduced l)y the gentleman from Molhle, and the committee is further to understand you are against the minority as to this ordinance in its words? MR. OATES—I stated the facts as to that. That this section was siil)stantially the same and would be acceptable to the g-entle- nian from Mobile, and in the haste I did not have the time to submit it to him. MR. M'EATHERLY—The statement of the Chairman of the Committee is correct, that the p-entleman from Mobile con¬ sented that I mig-ht have an opportunity to present a minority re])ort. aMR. .MACDONALD—I am a member of the Committee on Lcp-i.slative Department, and the jjfentlcman from Mobile is whollv correct in his statement as to what occurred in the commit¬ tee in reference to the adoption of his ordinance. d'he ordi¬ nance. or section proposed by the g’entlenian from Mobile con¬ tained a number of facts, or statements— c'( )\STri r'ri( )\\L ('owi-.x'riox, vm ]133 M i\. l\l’'J*'.Slv- l ri^c to ri yxn'nl ai order. I 11 I\ I d\ h.S11)l\Nd' - d'lie ^cnllciiKin will state the ]>oiiit of (>roini of ord(‘r. 'The c*on 0(leraiioii of the re])ort of th(* anniitK'e ou l^x- t‘euti\c hcjeartment is U(;l in orrlcr at this time. All the* objec¬ tion'- made. \n impeacliini.^^ tin* la port, and the* Cliair is unable t<» rule on (jUe-tion> that are out>ide of the report. Jh*ima f the la^p^rl of the c(mnnitlec'. MR. M .\r!)( ).\A] J) —Wdll the Chair permit on(‘ word." It has Ix-en >tated by tlie chairman of the Committee that this is not the acti(m of the committee*. MIC RJfIfSIf -1 reiU'w m\' j)oint (if order. 'I'll If I’RlfSI I )l\Xd'—d'lie ])oint of order is sustained. AIR. RRt )0]\S -1 ask tlie indulj^amce of the Convention just (>!}(' moment— AIR. \\'Al)])lflvL — 1 insist u])on the ])oint (if order. Air, I ha'sident. AIR. I>RO()KS—d'o say that the chairman of the Committee himx'lf has admitted that the rejiort is not what was passed by the Committee. AIR. A\*lf.\d'HIfRLY-—I insist U])un tlie C'hair ruling' u])on the ]i(>int of order. AIR. R>R()()KS--~d'he Chairman of the Committee has him- .-elf asked that the ordinance sulnnitted l)y myself be ])rinted— AIK. A\'A I )DlfLL-—I f^ave the floor to the distinguished .q:en- tleman from Alontj:toniery— 'PMIf JMvlfSI DieXd'—d'he ((uestion is on the motion of the < 4 'cntl(*man from A1 ont^t^omery that the rejiort lie ujxui the table, and that time liC allowed for a minority re])ort. AIR. AIlfRRlCL—I mo\e as a sulistitute for that the repcirt be recommitted to the committee for tlie jiurpose of settling: tlie difficulty that seems to exist. AIR. ().\'rifS--l liope that motion will not ]>re\ail— Ti l if IMvlfSl i )1fN'f—d'he motion to recommit is not in or¬ der at this lime, ddie Rejiort of the CA>mmittee is not before* t1ie Convention for reconsideration. AIR. OATlfS—1 will sa\' in order to settle this, as the* dele- f^ates are so much dissatisfied alxiiit tlie re]K)rt, wlien it comes u]). JJ34 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I will give them an opportunity to move to strike out what is put in there and offer his proposition THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has sustained the point of order that this matter is not open to discussion. ® compiled to receive the report, which is prima facie the report of the Committee. If the gentlemen desire to impeach it as the report of the Committee, they will have to find od^of doing so, when the report comes up for consideration. MR BROOKS—Do I understand then that this Committee s report as it is, is to be printed, and not a correct representation of what passed in the Committee? That this be printed “nd which did pass the Committee will not be printed? Do I under stand that to be the effect of it? THE PRESIDENT—The effect will be that the report of the Committee as made by its chairman vvill lay upon the table and be printed as the report of the Committee. MR. BROOKS —Notwithstanding the statement of the chair¬ men himself that my proposition should be printed along with it. Is it not competent for him to make that request. THE PRESIDENT—It is competent and if the gentleman adds that to his motion, the Chair will submit it as a part of his motion. MR. OATES—I request, to satisfy the gentleman, to let it be printed, following the report of the Committee. THE PRESIDENT—The request of the gentleman will not be a motion before this Convention. It is for the Convention to say whether this report shall be printed. Does the gentleman make a motion that it be printed? MR. OATES—I move that it be printed. THE PRESIDENT—It is added to the motion that this or¬ dinance introduced by the gentleman from Mobile be printed with the report of the Committee. MR WEATHERLY—I make no objection to that, the Committee’s report shall show the statement of the fact that was the ordinance introduced by Mr. Brooks. MR. MACDONALD-Will the gentleman him a question before he sits down? You "f. port go to this Convention as a report of a majority o' ‘J' Com- mittef, when in point of fact it was not the majority, and put us in the fix of making a minority report here.'' ' MR WEATHERLY—I am not the proper tribunal to settle questions of fact occurring between the members of a committee. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 113S THK PRESIDENT — That question can only properly be raised when it conies before the Convention for consideration. Any delegfate, whether a member of the Committee or not, may move to recommit this report, on the ground that it is not the re¬ port of the committee, but the Chair cannot assume to rule this report out as not being the report of the Committee on Legisla¬ tive Department when it is presented here by the distinguished chairman as the report of the committee. MR. BROOKS—I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. I want to ask in view of the ruling of the Chair and the statement of the Chairman, if any delegate in this Convention has a right to enter a protest against a matter to this sort and have it spread on the Journal? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair knows of no rule we have for spreading protests on the Journal, but the statement of the gentleman upon the floor will be published as a part of the offi¬ cial proceedings of the Convention. MR. LONG (Walker)—I rise to a point of order. Before a motion can be made to print two reports, the rules will have to be suspended. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I rise to a point of order. Un¬ der the rules of the Convention whenever a report of the com¬ mittee is made it is printed without a motion. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I call for the regular order, the report of Standing Committees. MR. WADDELL—I gave the floor to the gentleman from Montgomery (Oates) for the purpose of making his report. MR. OATES—A part of the motion I made was that this report be set down next in regular order of committees’ reports. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair put that as part of the mo¬ tion and it was so ordered. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—I ask permission to intro¬ duce a resolution in order that the Engrossing and Enrolling Clerk may proceed with the discharge of her duties. Resolution 195. Be it resolved, that the Engrossing and En¬ rolling Clerk of the Convention, be, and she is hereby authorized to employ such assistance as may be necessary to properly dis¬ charge the duties of her office. This resolution shall take effect on and after the 24th day of June. Resolution was referred to Committee on Printing and Incidental Expenses. MR. PITTS—I ask unanimous consent to submit the report of the Committee on Representation. JJ36 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Mt? PIT T ANS If it is to be read I shall object. I intend , resolution to go to the Committee on Rules for the fu¬ ture printing of these ordinances without their being read. TWP president—^T he Chair will call the attention of the gentkSSi from Mobile to the fact that the rules of the Conven- S r?auire that ordinances shall receive three readings m the Convention It receives one reading when it is introduced, when the committees reports it receives its second reading, and on its passage receives its third and final reading. MR PILLANS—I do not wish to differ with the Chair, it receives one reading when introduced, a second when acted upon and a third on final passage. All I wanted to do was to save time reading and re-reading sections before they were acted upon. THE PRESIDENT—-Does the gentleman object to the read¬ ing of the report of the committee? MR. PILLANS—I understand the report is very short. I withdraw my objection. MR. FOSTER—Is not the report of Standing Committees the order for this hour. THE PRESIDENT—Yes. MR. FOSTER—Does it require unanimous consent? THE PRESIDENT — We are proceeding under unanimous consent. The regular order has not been taken up. MR. ASHCRAFT—The rule requires that ordinances shall be read three times. THE PRESIDENT—Yes. MR. ASHCRAFT—The rules does not require that the re¬ port of the committee be read if it is printed in the proceedings. THE PRESIDENT—The gentlemen seem to have been pro¬ ceeding upon the idea that the report accompanyirig the ordinances wdl better enable the Convention to understand the ordinance when read. MR. ASHCRAFT—Possibly that might be true if they were listened to, but if they are not how is it? THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will proceed to read the report of the Committee on Representation. report of the COMMITTEE ON REPRESENTATION. Mr. President; The Committee on Representation instructs *"^*0 submit the following ordinance for adoption as Article — of the Constitu- tion of the State of Alabama, viz.. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1137 ARTICLE -. Section 1. The whole number of Senators shall be not less than one- fourth or more than one-third of the whole number of Representatives. Sec. 2. The House of Representatives shall consist of not more than one hundred and five members, unless new counties are created, in which event each county shall be entitled to one Representative. The members of the House of Representatives shall be apportioned by the General As¬ sembly among the several counties of the State according to the number of inhabitants in them respectively, as ascertained by the decennial census of the United States; which apportionment, when made, shall not be subject to alteration until the next session of the General Assembly after the next decennial census of the United States shall have been taken. Sec. 3. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly at its first ses¬ sion after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, and after each subsequent decennial census, to fix by law the number of Representatives and apportion them among the several counties of the State according to the number of inhabitants in them respectively, provided, that each county shall be entitled to at least one Representative. Sec. 4. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly at its first ses¬ sion after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, and after each subsequent decennial census, to fix by law the number of Senators, and to divide the State into as many Senatorial Dis¬ tricts as there are Senators, which districts shall be as nearly equal to each other in the number of inhabitants as may be, and each shall be entitled to one Senator and no more; and which districts when formed should not be changed until the next apportioning session of the General Assembly after the next decennial census of the United States shall have been taken; pro¬ vided. that counties created after the next preceding apportioning session of the General Assembly, may be attached to Senatorial districts No coun¬ ty shall be divided between two districts, and no district shall be made of two or more counties not contigpious to each other. Sec 5 Should the decennial census of the United States, from any cause, not be taken, or if. when taken, the same as to this State, is not fully satisfactory, the General Assembly shall have power at its first ses¬ sion after the time shall have elapsed for the taking of said census, to pro¬ vide for an enumeration of all the inhabitants of this State, and once in each ten years thereafter, upon which it shall be the duty of the GenerM^ Assembly to make the apportionment of Representatives and Senators as provided for in this Article. Sec 6 Until the General Assembly shall make an apportionment of Reoresentatives among the several counties, at its first session aftor the liking of the decennial census of the United States in the ^ herein provided, the counties of Autauga, Baldwin, Bibb, Blount, Cherokee, ChUton Choctaw Clay, Cleburne. Coffee, Colbert, Conecuh, Coosa. Cov- Chilto , . . p j DeKalb, Escambia, Fayette, Franklin, G^et Limestone, M.con, Marion. Marsha,,. 1138 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Monroe, Pickens, Randolph, St. Clair, Shelby, Washington and Winston shall each have one Representative; the counties of Barbour, Bullock, But¬ ler, Calhoun, Chambers, Clarke, Elmore, Etowah, Hale, Henry, Jackson, Lauderdale, Lee, Lowndes, Madison, Marengo, Morgan, Perry, Pike, Rus¬ sell, Sumter, Talladega, Tallapoosa, Tuscaloosa, Walker, and Wilcox shall each have two Representatives; the counties of Dallas and Mobile shall each have three Representatives; and the county of Jefferson shall have seven Representatives. Sec. 7. Until the General Assembly shall divide the State into Sena¬ torial districts, as herein provided, the Senatorial districts shall be as fol¬ lows: First District, Lauderdale and Limestone; Second District, Law¬ rence and Morgan; Third District, Blount, Cullman and Winston; Fourth District, Madison; Fifth District, Jackson and Marshall; Sixth District, Etowah and St. Clair; Seventh District, Calhoun; Eighth District, Talla¬ dega; Ninth District, Chambers and Randolph; Tenth District, Tallapoosa and Elmore; Eleventh District, Jefferson; Fourteenth District, Pickens and Sumter; Fifteenth District, Autauga, Chilton and Shelby; Sixteenth Dis¬ trict, Lowndes; Seventeenth District, Butler, Conecuh and Covington; Eighteenth District, Bibb and Perry; Nineteenth District, Choctaw, Clarke and Washington; Twentieth District, Marengo; Twenty-first District, Baldwin, Escambia and Monroe; Twenty-second District, Wilcox; Twen¬ ty-third District, Henry; Twenty-fourth District, Barbour; Twenty-fifth District, Coffee, Crenshaw and Pike; Twenty-sixth District, Bullock and Macon; Twenty-seventh District, Lee and Russell; Twenty-eighth District, Montgomery; Twenty-ninth District, Cherokee and DeKalb; Thirtieth Dis¬ trict, Dallas; Thirty-first District, Colbert, Franklin and Marion; Thirty- second District, Greene and Hale; Thirty-third District, Mobile; Thirty- fourth District, Cleburne, Clay and Coosa; Thirty-fifth District, Dale and Geneva. I return herewith all ordinances referred to committee. P. H. PITTS, Chairman Committee on Representation. Mr. President: I submit herewith a report of a minority of the Committee on representation, p. H. Pitts, Chairman Committee on Representation, Minority report of Committee on Representation. Mr. President: The undersigned members of the Committee on Representa¬ tion beg leave to submit the following report: We recommend that Section 2 be amended by striking out the words “one hundred and five members,” and insert “hundred members”. Also by striking out the words “next session” and insert “first session.” CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1139 We also recommend the striking out all the first part of Sec¬ tion 3 down to the words ‘Tixed by law’' and insert in lieu ‘‘The General Assembly may after the adoption of this Constitution, and shall after its first session, after each decennial census of the United States thereafter”^— We further recommend the striking out of all the first part of Section 4 down to the words “into as many senatorial districts” and insert instead “The General Assembly may after the adop¬ tion of this Constitution and shall at its first session after each decennial census of the United States thereafter fix by law the number of Senators and divide the State”— We further recommend that Section 6 be amended as follows : Sec. 6. Until the General Assembly shall make an apportion¬ ment of Representatives amon^ the several counties of Autauga, Baldwin, Bibb, Blount, Butler, Cherokee, Chilton, Choctaw, Clay, Cleubrne, Coffee, Colbert, Conecuh, Coosa, Coving-ton, Crenshaw, Cullman, Dale, DeKalb, Elmore, Escambia, Etowah, Fayette, Franklin, Geneva, Green, Lamar, Lawrence, Limestone, Macon, Marion, Marshall, Monroe, Pickens, Randolph, Shelby, St. Clair, Walker, Washington, Winston, shall each elect one representa¬ tive. The Counties of Barbour, Bullock, Calhoun, Chambers, Clarke, Hale, Henry, Jackson, Lee, Lauderdale, Lowndes, Madi¬ son, Marengo, Morgan, Perry, Pike, Russell, Sumter, Talladega, Tallapoosa, Tuscaloosa and Wilcox shall each elect two repre¬ sentatives. The counties of Dallas and Mobile shall each elect three representatives. The County of Montgomery shall elect four representatives and the county of Jefferson shall elect six representatives. We further recommend that Section 7 be amended as follows: Section 7. Until the General Assembly shall divide the State into Senatorial Districts, the Senatorial Districts shall be: First District, Lauderdale and Limestone; Second, Lawrence and Mor¬ gan: Third, Winston, Blount and Cullman; Fourth, Madison; Fifth, Jackson and Marshall; Sixth, Etowah and St. Clair; Sev¬ enth, Calhoun and Cleburne; Eighth, Talladega ^d Clay; Ninth, Randolph and Chambers; Tenth, Talladega and Coosa; Eleventh, Tuscaloosa; Twelfth, Lamar, Fayette and Walker; pirteenth. Jefferson; Fourteenth, Pickens and Sumter; Fifteenth, Chilton. Shelby and Elmore; Sixteenth, Autauga and Lowndes; Seven¬ teenth Butler, Conecuh and Covington; Eighteenth, Perry and Bibb • Nineteenth, Choctaw, Clarke and Washington; Twentieth, Marengo; Twenty-first, Monroe, Escambia and Baldwin; Twenty- second, Wilcox; Twenty-third, Henry, Dale and Geneva; Twenty- fourth, Barbour; Twenty-fifth, Pike, Coffee and Crenshaw; Twen¬ ty-sixth, Macon and Bullock; Twenty-seventL Lee and Russell; Twenty-eighth, Montgomery; Twenty-ninth, DeKalb and Chero- 1140 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS kee; Thirtieth, Dallas; Thirty-first, Colbert, Franklin and Marion; Thirty-second, Greene and Hale; Thirty-third, Mobile. Respectfully submitted, J. W, Grayson, C. H. Greer. Minority report of the Committee on Representation. The minority of the Committee on Representation dissent from the recommendations of the majority, and recommend that the number of representatives remain one hundred and the Sen¬ ators thirty-three. That the apportionment of Senators and Representatives re¬ main as they are until the next session of the General Assembly, which may reapportion them, and after the decennial census 1910 .>hall reapportion them. J. W. Grayson, C. H. Greer. MR. PITTS—I move that the report of the Committee lie on the table and be printed. THE PRESIDENT — Does the gentleman desire to incor¬ porate in his motion that it be set specially for consideration? MR. PITTS—No, sir. A vote being taken the motion was carried. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I call for the regular order. MR. WATTS—I ask unanimous leave to introduce a short resolution and I propose to move to suspend the rules and have the resolution put on its immediate passage. THE PRESIDENT — Does the gentleman from Randolph withdraw his motion for the introduction of this resolution. The withdrawal was made and the resolution was read as follows: Resolution No. 196, by Mr. Watts: Be it resolved, That the privileges of the floor of this Con¬ vention are hereby extended to Alabama’s distinguished son, Hon. Hiliar}^ A. Herbert, Ex-Secretary of the Navy. Be it further resolved, That on Friday the 28th inst, this Con¬ vention recess from 12:30 to 3 p. m. instead of from 1 to 3 p. m., and that the Convention remain in session until 6 p. m., in order that the Alabama Bar Association may have the use of this hall for the purpose of hearing the address of the Hon. Hiliary A. Herbert to said Association. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1141 A vote was taken on the motion to suspend but the result was not announced by the President— MR. Rl'/HShv—I demand a division of the (piestion invohed. MR. HEP'LIN (Randolph)—Too late the vote has been taken. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair has not yet announced the vote on the motion to suspend. The motion to suspend is carried. The cpiestion now is on the adoption of the resolution. MR. REESE—1 now move a division of the question. MR. WATTS—It is too late. THE PRESIDENT—In the opinion of the Chair, it is not too late. The j^round upon which the Chair refused to entertain the motion for a division the gfentleman made awhile ago was that the gentleman could not make his motion while the House was ])a.ssing on the motion tcj suspend the rules. In the opinion of the Chair it is now in order for the gentleman to demand a di¬ vision of the question. MR. DUKE—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Dallas is making the demand for a division out of his seat. THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is well taken. MR. S.AMFORD (Pike) — Well, I will make the demand from my seat. The question will be divided. Under the rules any member of the Convention has a right to demand a division of a question where the sense of it will admit of the division. The Secretary will read the first proposition. The first part of the resolution extending the privileges of the floor to Mr. Herbert was read and unanimously passed. The remaining part of the resolution was then read. MR. WATTS—The object of that resolution is to permit the members of the Alabama Bar Association who are members of this house to hear the address of Hon. Hilary A. Herbert. The onlv for the adjournment of the Convention for half an hour earlier than it would ordinarily recess and it is for the purpose also of obtaining this hall so that the crowd that is ex¬ pected to be here to hear the address can be accommodated. MR. OATES—If it is in order, I move to amend the motion of the delegate from Montgomery by striking out 12:30 and in¬ serting 12. I belong to the Alabama Bar Association and I have never attended a meeting of that body where the invited guest made the first address. Usually the President makes his address first and then the invited guest. Members will not have time to 1142 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS hear both addresses and go home and get dinner between 12:30 and 3 o'clock. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I do not like to appear to be in¬ terposing objections to listening to an address by a distinguished citizen of Alabama or of the nation, but I submit to this Conven¬ tion that it does seem to me that we have taken up as much or perhaps more time than the people generally think we ought to take in the work that is set before us and that we should not ad¬ journ and give way from time to time on every such occasion as this. I submit that it is not our time but the people’s time that we are wasting. I simply desire to make this explanation of the vote that I shall cast on this occasion. MR. DUKE—I move to further amend the resolution by pro¬ viding that the Convention remain in session until 6 o’clock to¬ morrow. That would take the time of the members of the Con¬ vention, and not of the people, and give it to the Bar Association. MR. PETTUS—I move the previous question on the reso¬ lution pending and on the amendment. MR. SOLLIE—I am not unfriendly to the resolution but the original resolution as introduced did not change the time for the evening session, and don’t this require a suspension of the rules? THE PRESIDENT — The rules of the Convention cover both morning and afternoon sessions and when the rules are sus¬ pended on a resolution it is in order to dispose of the resolution in whatever manner the Convention sees fit. The point of order is overruled. A vote being taken the previous question was ordered. MR. OATES—I will accept the amendment of the gentleman from Chambers. THE PRESIDENT—That can only be done by unanimous consent. A vote being taken the amendment of the delegate from Chambers (Mr. Duke) was adopted. A further vote being taken the amendment of the delegate from Montgomery (Mr. Oates) was adopted. y\ further vote being taken the resolution as amended was adopted. MR. LOMAX—I ask leave to introduce a short resolution for reference to a Committee. Resolution 197, by Mr. Lomax: C( )XSTl'rrTl()NAL CON VKNTION, 1901 1143 Rfsolvcd, thnt the sum of seven and 50-100 dollars be and the same is herel)y appropriated to pay for stenog-raphic work for the Committee on Preamble and Declaration of Rip:hts. Referred to Committee on Schedule, Printintj and Incidental Expenses. :MR. I'ERGUSON—1 ask unanimous consent to introduce a short resolution. The resolution was read as follows; Resolution No. 198. by Mr. Ferp:uson : Greeting from the i)eople of Alabama to the People of Culra : lie it resoE'cd, b^’ the ])eople of Alabama, in Convx^ntion a.s semlded. That we extend our congratulations to the people of Cul)a upon the termination of their woes borne so fjreviously for SO many generations, and we welcome them to the great faini > of self-governing- nations and hope that some day Cuba, untrani- meled, and of her own free will, may become our younger sister in the mighty Union of States. P,e it further resolved. That the Department of State at Wash- ino-ton be and is hereby requested to convey through the proper official channels this testimonial of our good will towmrd the peo¬ ple of Cuba, that the same may be laid before the Constitutional Convention of the Island of Cuba. Referred to Committee on Rules. THE PRESIDENT—I will refer to the report of the Com¬ mittee on Executive Department, MR. FERGUSON—I would ask its reference to the Com¬ mittee on Rules. The reference was made. The further call of the standing committees for reports pro¬ ceeded and the Committee on Amending the Constitution and Mi.scellaneous Provisions handed in its report, which was read as follows: An ordinance to prescribe the mode in which the Constitution may be amended. Be it ordained bv the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled. that Article' XVII of the Constitution be stricken out, and the following Article inserted in lieu thereof: 1144 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ARTICLE XVII. Mode of Amending the Constitution: 1. Amendments may be proposed to this Constitution by the General Assembly in the manner following: The proposed amendment shall be read in the House in which they originate on three several days, and if up¬ on the third reading, three-fifth of all the members elected to that House shall vote in favor thereof the proposed amendments shall be sent to the other House, in which they shall likewise be read on three several days, and if upon the third reading three-fifths of all the members elected to that House shall vote in favor of the proposed amendments, the General As¬ sembly shall order an election by the qualified electors of the State upon such proposed amendments, to be held either at the general election next succeeding the session of the General Assembly at which the amendments are proposed or upon another day appointed by the General Assembly not less than three months after adjournment of the session of the General As¬ sembly, at which the amendments are proposed. Notice of such election together with the proposed amendments shall be given by proclamation of the Governor which shall be published in every county is sucli manner as the General Assembly shall direct, for at least eight weeks successively next preceding the day appointed for such election. On the day so ap¬ pointed an election shall be held for the vote of the qualified electors of the State on the proposed amendments. If such election be held on the day of the general election the officers of the general election shall open a poll for the vote of the qualified electors on the proposed amendments; if it he held on a day other than that of a general election, officers for such election shall be appointed and the election shall be held in all things in accordance with the law governing general elections. In all elections upon such proposed amendments the votes cast thereat shall he canvassed, tabu¬ lated, and returns thereof made to the Secretary of State, and counted, in the same manner as is done in elections for Representatives in the General Assembly, and if it shall thereupon appear that a majority of the qualified electors who voted at such election upon the proposed amendments, in favor of the same, such amendments shall be valid to all intents and pur¬ poses, as parts of this Constitution. The result of such election shall be made known by proclamation of the Governor. 2. —Upon the ballots to be used at all elections provided in Section 1 of this Article the substance or subject matter of each proposed amendment shall be printed so that the nature thereof shall be clearly indicated, fol¬ lowing each proposed amendment on the ballot shall be printed the word “Yes” and immediately following that shall be printed the word “No”. The choice of the elector shall be indicated by a cross mark before the an¬ swer he desires. 3. —No Convention shall hereafter be held for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State unless after the General Assem¬ bly by a vote of a majority of all the members elected to each House has passed an act or resolution calling a Convention for such purpose, the ques¬ tion of Convention or No Convention shall first be submitted a vote of all CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1145 the qualified electors of the State, and approved by a majority of those voting at such election. No act or resolution of the General Assembly call¬ ing a Convention for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State shall be repealed, except upon the vote of a majority of all the members elected to each House at the same session at which such act or resolution was passed. 4.—All votes of the General Assembly upon proposed amendments to this Constitution, and upon bills or resolutions calling a Convention for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State, shall be taken by yeas and nays and entered on the Journals. No act or resolu¬ tion of the General Assembly passed in accordance with the provisions of this article proposing amendments to this Constitution or calling a Con¬ vention for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State, shall be submitted for the approval of the Governor, but shall be valid without his approval. Report of the Committee on Amending the Constitution and Miscellaneous Provisions. MR. PRESIDENT—The Committee on Amending the Con¬ stitution and Miscellaneous Provisions beg leave to report here¬ with an ordinance to take the place of Article XVI of the present Constitution. The only matters in wEich the report of the Committee differ from the Article in the present Constitution are the following: 1. Section 2 of the Article in the present Constitution is made Section 3 in the report. 2. A new' Section, number 2, in the report has been added forbidding the increase or diminution of the compensation of any public officer during the term for which he shall have been elect¬ ed. Respectfully submitted, J. M. Foster, Chairman. An ordinance to amend Article XVI of the Constitution. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in Convention as¬ sembled, That Article XVI of the Constitution be stricken out and the following Article inserted in lieu thereof: article XVI. Miscellaneous Provisions. 1. No person holding an office of profit under the United States except postmasters, whose annual salaries do not exceed two hundred dollars, shall, during his continuance in such office, hold any office of profit under this State; nor shall any person hold two offices of profit at one and the same time under this State except Justices of the Peace, Constables, Notaries Public and Commissioners of Deeds. 1146 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 2. The salary, fees, or compensation of any officer holding any civil office of profit under this State or any county or mu¬ nicipality thereof, shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which he shall have been elected or appointed. 3. It is made the duty of the General Assembly to enact all laws necessary to give effect to the provisions of this Constitu¬ tion. Report of the Committee on Amending the Constitution and Miscellaneous Provisions: Mr. President, The Committee on Amending the Constitution and Miscel¬ laneous Provisions beg leave to report herewith an ordinance to take the place of Article XVII of the present Constitution. The committee does not report specially upon all ordinances referred to it, but has embodied the ideas of some of them in this report. All ordinances referred to your committee are herewith respectfully returned. The material particulars in which this report differs from the article in the present Constitution are as follows: Section 1 has been rewritten so as to require the assent of three-fifths of all the members elected to each House of the Gen¬ eral Assembly to propose amendments before the same can be submitted to the people. The committee was aware that doubt existed as to whether the language of this article in the Constitu¬ tion required two-thirds of all the members elected to each House, or only two-thirds of a quorum of each House, and that it was susceptible of the latter construction. The committee deemed it best that more than a majority of all the members elected to each House should approve the amendments before they should be submitted, and thought it advisable to express the requirements in language that cannot be misunderstood. The General Assembly has been given the option of ordering that the proposed amendments be voted on at a general election, or at a special election called for that purpose as it might think best. A new section numbered two in the report has been added. This section provides that on the ballot to be used at election on proposed amendments the subject matter of each amendment shall be printed in language which shall clearly indicate the nature of the amendment. Section 2 of the article in the present Constitution is num¬ bered three in the report, and has been changed so as to prevent the call of a Constitutional Convention unless such call shall first CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1147 receive the affirmative vote of a majority of all the members elect¬ ed to each House of the General Assembly. This section has also been amended so as to forbid the repeal of an act calling- a Con¬ stitutional Convention except at the same session of the General Assembly at which the act was passed. A new section, numbered 4 in the report, has been added re¬ quiring an aye and nay vote by the members of the General As¬ sembly on all propositions to amend the Constitution and to call a Constitutional Convention. This section also makes it plain that the approval of the Governor is not necessary to give va¬ lidity to any act or resolution of the General Assembly propos¬ ing amendments to the Constitution or calling a Constitutional Convention. Respectfully submitted, J. M. Foster, Chairman. MR. SOLLIE—As a member of this Committee I wish to say that I was not in accord with all of the sections as reported by the Committee and reserve the right to oppose them when the matter comes up. I give this notice now because the facts which I deem not necessary to bring now before the Convention, part of which was my absence from the Committee during a part of its deliberations. I did not, intended, however, to bring in a mi¬ nority report. MR. BURNS—As a quasi member of that Committee, I beg leave to state I never heard of the report before and I ask the privilege of objecting to some of its provisions. MR. FOSTER — It has not been my fault that gentlemen have not heard of the provisions. As the President knows, I have had notices of meetings of the Committee called out before the Convention. We have always had a quorum, and if members choose to absent themselves I cannot go around town and hunt them up. I do not know whether it is necessary, but if it is, I move that the report be printed and take its place on the calendar. The motion was carried. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—A good many members of com¬ mittees when reports are made consume time in giving notice that they will object to certain of the provisions of the report. I want to inquire if members of the Committee and other dele¬ gates have not the right to amend a section without giving notice that they differ with the report? THE PRESIDENT —It seems to the Chair there is no power to compel members of the committee to support a report unless they see fit. It is usually supposed that members of a committee, unless they submit minority reports are favorable to the majority report. That supposition, sometimes, however, proves to be vio¬ lent. 1148 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The call of the regular order was resumed and the Committee on Schedule and Printing offered the following report: Mr. President: The Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Ex¬ penses have instructed me to make the following partial report, viz: The committee have audited the accounts hereto attached and find that the State of Alabama is indebted to the Brown Print¬ ing Company of Montgomery, Alabama, in the sum of two hun¬ dred and fifty-five and twenty-five one hundredths dollars. We find that said State is indebted to Marshall & Bruce of Nashville. Tennessee, the sum of twelve dollars. We also find that said State is indebted to Ed C. Fowler Company, Montgomery, Alabama, in the sum of twenty-four and 75-100 dollars. All of the above amounts are for articles furnished the State of Alabama for the use of the Constitutional Convention and all of the above amounts are itemized as shown by bills hereto at¬ tached. Total amount three hundred and two dollars. And we recommend the payment of the same, all of which is respectfully submitted, John T. Heflin. Chairman of Committee on Schedule, Printing and Incidental Ex¬ penses. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph)—I move that the report be print¬ ed and that it be adopted and that the President of the Conven¬ tion be authorized to draw his warrant on the State Treasury for the benefit of the parties named. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that an ordinance requiring the payment of money, it would be more regular to let it lie on the table and be printed. A motion to print was made and carried. MR, HOWELL—I ask permission to introduce a resolution that is of some importance to this Convention and I think now is the proper time to do it. The resolution, No. 199, was read as follows: Resolved, that whatever clerical assistance may be necessary to be employed by the Enrolling and the Engrossing Clerk of the Convention be paid for at the rate of 15 cents per hundred words for such assistant clerical work. MR. HOWELL—I move the adoption of that resolution and I ask permission to explain my reasons. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1149 At the organization of this Convention and in the election of officers there was an Enrolling and Engrossing Clerk elected who went upon the pay roll as $5 per day. I would then have protest¬ ed against the election of that officer until there was work to do, but was deterred from it. Nearly forty days of the Convention have come and gone and not a .single article has been engrossed and yet that officer has been on the pay roll at $5 a day. I do not know the distinguished lady and I have no feeling in making the motion, but it seems to me we are paying out money for work not done. Now, a reso¬ lution is offered here this morning to authorize her to employ additional clerical force, to which I have no objection if it is needed, but, under that resolution, she would be authorized to employ at her discretion any number of clerks, and they would go on the pay-roll at $4 a day whether there is any work to do or not. This resolution of mine proposes if there is any such cleri¬ cal work to do to pay for it at the rate of IS cents a hundred. That is the whole of the resolution. I was deterred from protest¬ ing' against this officer being elected at the time she was from the fact that somebody would say that I was niggardly, or that I did it for buncombe. I now move to suspend the rules, and that this resolution be placed on its immediate passage. A vote being taken, the rules were suspended. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert) — I move to amend that resolution by providing that the engrossing and enrolling clerk may employ such assistants as may be necessary, and these as¬ sistants shall receive 15 cents per hundred words for the work they do. MR. HOWELL—I accept that amendment. MR. ROBINSON—Has the engrossing and enrolling clerk been receiving compensation from the commencement of the con¬ vention? MR. HOWELL—That is the rule of the Legislature. MR. ROBINSON—But has she received compensation since the Convention organized? MR. HOWELL—That is the rule. MR. ROBINSON—But has she actually received the com¬ pensation? MR. HOWELL—I don't know that she has. I go upon the general rule. Several members answered in the affirmative. MR. ROBINSON—Did she do any work until the adoption of the executive report? 1150 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. HOWELL—I don’t think she did. MR. LONG (Walker)—Was not that the fault of the mem¬ bers of the Convention that she has not been at work all the time? (Laughter). MR. COBB—I want to say that it is a dangerous precedent to allow this engrossing and enrolling clerk to select such assist¬ ants as she desires. If she needs assistance, she should have it, but I don't think it should be in this form. MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert) — It has been the uniform custom and practice of the House of Representatives and Senate to allow this officer to select whatever assistants are necessary when the assistance is needed. It would be im])ossible for the Convention to know whether the engrossing clerk needs assist¬ ants. Since she has been elected, we should defer that matter to her. MR. PROCTOR—In answer to the question of whether the engrossing and enrolling clerk has been receiving pay, I will say she has, and she has been here ready to perform any service that might be required of her, and she has been here at cH)nsi(lerable expense. If the Convention don’t see proper to give her any work, that is the fault of the Convention. As to leaving this mat¬ ter to the Convention, this work may pile up on her and be dump¬ ed o\er to her after the Convention is closed. If we fi.K it so that she cannot employ assistants without referring it to the Conven¬ tion, she would have to wait until the next morning before she could make arrangements to procure such force as is needed. Now, as to paying 15 cents a hundred words for this work; You cannot get a man or a lady, either, to come here and work at 15 cents a hundred, getting the work as the Convention is go¬ ing to give it to the engrossing clerk. She might be able to em¬ ploy some one steadily, giving all the work they could do, at 15 cents per hundred, but she could not get them for that price as the work will be delivered. To have the help constantly at call, you will have to pay more than the Probate Judges pay for their enrolling. If this Convention is delayed waiting for work to be done in that dei^artment for one day, more money will be lost to the State than the whole cost of the department. MR. BULGER—^Is it not your opinion that this engrossing clerk can engross any Article that we have had before we get an¬ other? MR. PROCTOR—That is true as we have been doing in the past, but how do we know that two or three Articles won’t be passed in one day? The engrossing clerk could have kept up with all we have done and she may be able to do it in the future. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1151 but I think it would be wise for this Convention to ^ive her this authority, and I, therefore, move to lay on the table the resolution of the gentleman from Colbert. MR. WHITE—I submit this is a matter of some importance. THE PRESIDENT—A motion to table is not debatable. A vote being taken, the motion to table was lost. MR, HOWZE—I am opposed to this resolution because it ])uts it in the power of this clerk to appoint officers to the Con¬ vention without knowledge of the Convention and without know¬ ing whether the help is needed. I don't think we should go into this extravagant way of appointing these assistants. If assistants are needed they ought to l^e employed. There is no engrossment required until an article is passed and from our experience I would judge that one clerk could enroll any Article before any other article gets to them. There has only been only article passed and from present prospects the next one won't pass for a month and I think one clerk will have an opportunit}’ of engrossing every bill that will be sent to her. I think this is a matter that ought to be referred to a Committee before it is passed, and I therefore move that this be referred to the Rules Committee to determine whether or not this additional help should be granted. MR. HOWELL—I will vote for that but will the gentleman allow me to offer an amendment before it goes to the Committee. I would suggest that if it becomes necessary for a clerk to be em¬ ployed that the enrolling clerk can employ such with the consent and approval of the President. MR. O'NEAL—I move the previous question. A vote being taken the main question was ordered and a fur¬ ther vote being taken the motion to refer was carried. By unanimous consent resolution 195 was withdrawn from the Committee on Printing and referred to the Committee on Rules. MR. REESE—I ask unanimous consent to send up a short resolution which I am satisfied will save this Convention $5,C)CX). There was objection. THE PRESIDENT — The President has a communication from the Sheriffs, Clerks and Registers Association of Alabama. MR. PETTUS—I move that it be read. The communication was read as follows: At a special meeting of the Sheriffs, Clerks and Registers Association of Alabama, held in the city of Montgomery, Alabama, on the 26th of June, 1901, the following resolutions were unanimously adopted: 1152 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Whereas, the main purpose for which the present Constitutional Con¬ vention now assembled at the Capitol was called, as understood by the people (such understanding having been obtained from the Democratic platform) was to disfranchise the negro and at the same time not to dis¬ franchise any white voter, and Whereas, the cause or justification for discrimination against Sheriffs in Alabama, which discrimination denies them the privilege of succeeding themselves in office has ceased to exist and Whereas, the present Constitutional Convention proposes to further discriminate against the Sheriffs by lodging with the Chief Executive of the State the power to suspend and remove them from office pending pro¬ ceedings of impeachment before the Supreme Court; and Whereas, certain material changes are in contemplation by the Con¬ stitutional Convention that was not discussed before the people of Ala¬ bama, nor submitted for their consideration before the calling of the Con¬ stitutional Convention. Therefore, be it resolved by the Sheriffs, Clerks and Registers Asso¬ ciation of the State of Alabama, First—That we respectfully appeal to the present Constitutional Con¬ vention to redeem every pledge made to the people of Alabama as embodied in the Democratic platform. Second—Be it further resolved, That we favor the elimination from the Constitution, that provision which prohibits Sheriffs from succeeding them¬ selves in office. Third—That we regard the proposition to lodge with the Chief Ex¬ ecutive of the State of Alabama the extraordinary power to suspend or re¬ move from office, the Chief Executive officer of the counties in Alabama, pending impeachment proceedings, as frought with great danger, and a direct thrust at local self-government, and earnestly protest against it. Fourth That it is the sense of this Association that any material change in the Judicial Department of this State will be a radical departure from the real purpose for which the Convention was called, and will greatly imperil the ratification of the Constitution when submitted to the people for their approval. We therefore respectfully and earnestly petition the Constitutional Convention. (a) Not to abolish the Chancery or City Courts of the State. (b) Not to reduce the present minimum area limits of the counties of the State. (c) Not to incorporate in the Constitution a provision making any county officer ineligible to succeed himself. Be it further resolved, that these resolutions be spread upon the minutes of this association, and that the President be and he is hereby instructed CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1153 to present a copy of these resolutions to the President of the Constitutional Convention with the request that he present the same to the Convention. A true copy from the minutes of the Sheriffs, Clerks and Registers As¬ sociation of Alabama. W. R. Waller, President, H. H. Matthews, Secretary. Is there any such body known to the laws of Alabama? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair is unable to inform the gen¬ tleman, the communication is so signed. MR. PETTUS—I move that that communication be referred to the Committee on Executive Department. MR. REESE—I move to amend that by referring it to the Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights. MR. PITTS—I desire to offer a substitute for both those mo¬ tions. The substitute was read as follows; Resolved, that the management of all public affairs be immediately turned over to the office holders. MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)—I move to suspend the rules and lay that resolution on the table. MR. PETTUS—I make the point of order that the resolu¬ tion is out of order. THE PRESIDENT—The resolution is out of order. A vote being taken the amendment was lost and a further vote being taken the original motion was carried and the reference made. THE PRESIDENT—The next order of business will be the consideration of the Committee on Taxation. MR. CORNWALL—I ask unanimous consent to introduce a short resolution. The President—The special order is the report of the Com¬ mittee on Taxation. MR. WHITESIDE—I rise to a question of personal privi¬ lege. On yesterday when the Convention was about to take a vote on the motion of the delegate from Walker to lay the amend¬ ment to Article I of the report of the Committee on Taxation on the table I called for a division of this question. The official re¬ port of the proecedings of the Convention attributed that call to Mr. Parker of Elmore. This does Mr. Parker an injustice as he desired to lay both amendments on the table. I only desired to lay the amendment to the amendment on the table, because I con¬ ceived that to be a matter of legislation. I wanted to vote for the 1154 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS first amendment. The amendment of the gentleman from Pike, because I conceived that that came strictly within the purview of a Constitutional provision. I desire further to complain and pro- test against the ruling of the President pro tern, on that call for a division in the face of Rule 37 which reads as follows. Rule 37. Any delegate may call for a division of the question when the sense will admit of it. The President pro tern, held that it was in the discretion of the gentleman from Walker as to whether or not he would per¬ mit a division of the question. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Calhoun cannot call upon the Chair to correct a ruling of the President pro tern, of yesterday. His remedy was an appeal from the decision of the President pro tern, at that time. MR. WHITESIDE—I am not asking for it to be corrected. I simply desire to protest against it. MR. GRAHAM—I rise to the further point of order that the time was then to protest, not now. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the chair the point of order is well taken so far as it relates to the protest made by the gen¬ tleman. MR. WHITESIDE—It is in the discretion, I conceive, of any member to make his motion as broad and coveritig as many propositions as he desires, but it is not within the discretion of any member of this Convention to prevent any member voting his sentiments on any proposition before the Convention. THE PRESIDENT—The question before the Convention is the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Jefferson to Sec¬ tion 1 of the Article reported by the Committee on Taxation. MR. WHITE (Jefferson)—At the close of the session yes¬ terday, in answer to a statement made by me to the effect that the farmer paid taxes on all his property, the same as any other citizen of Alabama, my friend from Talladega read from the sta¬ tute the exemption of some few articles from taxation. They ap¬ ply as well to any one else as to the farmer. That, I think, is an answer to that proposition. Now, Mr. President, what is this taxation? We limit the ad valorem tax to seven and one-helf mills on the dollar. This tax is twenty-five mills on the dollar. Fifty cents on every ton of fertilizer means fifty cents imposed on every twenty dollars’ worth of property, and that, taken as an ad valorem tax, means twenty- five mills on the dollar. That is in addition to the tax the farmer has already paid, and this is an unequal and an unjust burden imposed upon him. This twenty-five mills on the dollar addi- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1155 tional taxation, is in addition to the fact that this same property has paid its proportion of taxes during- the year as merchandise. Now, I say, Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Convention, that this is indefensible. In fact, our opponents do not undertake to defend it, but they tell us that the farmer does not pay it, and, therefore, it ought to still continue. I say it is wrong, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Con¬ vention, without reference to who pays it. I say it is wrong to impose it upon the manufacturer, and it is doubly wrong to im¬ pose it upon the farmer, because he is less able to pay it than others. Does he pay it? We are told by gentlemen who claim to know something about it, that he does not. If he does not pay it, then every National Democratic platform, since I can recollect, has been wrong, because in every one of them they declare that the consumer pays the tariff tax laid upon goods. Certainly in these long years, if that were a fallacy or mistake, it would have been corrected. I know that the Republican doctrine asserts the contrary, but which is right? Which is correct? The Republi¬ cans claim that the manufacturer pays it. The Democrats claim that the consumer pays it. I am willing to stand with the Demo¬ cratic platform for the last half a century. Now, sir, to illustrate, how much tax is this? Why, it is ninety-thousand dollars a year. How much will that amount to in ten years? Nearly a million of dollars in round numbers. Does any thoughtful man believe, or say, that the manufacturers of fer¬ tilizers are giving to the people of Alabama a million of dollars every decade that rolls around? Why, the mere statement of that proposition answers it. We know they do not pay it. As my friend has suggested, it is increasing every year. In 1896, the revenue derived from this tax amounted to fifty thousand dol¬ lars. In 1900 it amounted to ninety thousand dollars. In other words, it is increasing now at the rate of fifty thousand dollars in every five years, and, as our lands grow poorer, and as our farmers become more progressive and more intensive, the con¬ sumption of these fertilizers will increase, and the proportion which now exists will be destroyed. Ere long they will be paying probably twenty or twenty-five per cent of the revenues derived by the State from all sources. Today this tax amounts to nearly fourteen per cent of the ad valorem taxes of the State, and tell me then that it is a bagatelle? Tell me then, that the farmer who has to pay it does not feel the burden? I say, Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Convention, it is indefensible; it is wrong, and it ought not longer to exist. Why impose upon this one class, a class that produces more wealth, gives employment to more people, maintains more homes, supplies the schools with more children and the churches with more membership, than all other classes in Alabama, why single them out to bear the weight of his unjust burden? They are al- Ol'inCIAL PROCl’IvOlNOS 1156 ready stag-geriii*^; they are already reeling' under the imposition of taxes, because they are less ])rosperous than almost any other class of people in Alabama. Wliy make them the burden bearers of the State? I appeal to you and ask you if it is not wron^-? Does he i)ay it? I have it from a gentleman w'hose veracity cannot be (jiiestioned, here or anywhere else, that he buys fertili¬ zers without the ta^ at fifty cents a ton less than with it. d'he very same fertilizer. Cli]) the ta^6 and the |)rice is cut fifty cents on the ton, and I have no doubt that any man who has the cash in his ])ocket in the s]min^ of the year, can walk u]) and buv his fertilizers for cash, waiving the guarantee represented by the tag, he can buy it for just fifty cents a ton less than he ]>ays for it with the tag. MR. FOSTlvR—Will the gentleman allow an interruption? MR. WHITE—Yes. MR. FOSTER—Your amendment contemplates, does it not, that commodities may be inspected? MR. WHITE—Oh, yes, but the cost of the inspection only shall be charged. MR. FOSTER—It is to be charged against the commodities —the seller of the commodities? MR. WHITE—Yes, sir. MR. FOSTER—Do you consider that the salary of the in¬ specting officer is a part of the cost? MR. WHIlE—Well, I don’t know what the legislature tnight provide along that line. MR. FOSTER—Isn’t this whole thing a matter for the legis¬ lature? MR. WHITE—Why, of course, it is for the legislature. But this is a limitation upon taxation, and it provides that the legis¬ lature shall not levy more than that. That is all. Some gentle¬ men contend that this is legislation. MR. POSTER—May I ask another question? MR. WHITE—Yes. MR. FOS'I'ER—Does your amendment then prevent the leg¬ islature from im])Osing any license tax that they see fit? MR. WHdlTE—No. MR. FOSTER—Isn’t the whole matter in the discretion of the legislature under your amendment, as to what constitutes the cost of the inspection? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1157 MR. WHITE—The cost of the analysis, and of inspection is the limit. MR. P^OSTER—lint it is within the discretion of the legisla¬ ture as to what constitutes the cost? MR. WHITE—Of course they will have to determine that, but they cannot go beyond the reasonable cost of inspection. MR. SOLLIE—The actual cost. MR. WHITE—-And I understand that is now some five, six, seven or eight cents a ton. They say that this is legislation. What? A limitation upon taxation a legislative act? Why the unlimited power of taxation, Mr. President and delegates of the Convention carries with it the power of confiscation. Any man who has ever written or spoken upon this subject, will tell you that the power of taxation unlim¬ ited carried with it the power of confiscation and destruction. We limit, in this very section of this article, the power of the legisla¬ ture to levy an ad valorem tax. We only ask you to do in this, exactly what you have done in the old Constitution, and what the committee recommends you shall do in this. The argument so often made that we are entering into legislative fields, is one of those convenient arguments that can be made when a gentleman is against a measure, and can be used by him the other way, when he is in favor of a measure. This is an argument, when made, which should always be considered well, and to which your earn¬ est thought should be ap])lied. But, Mr. President, I do not think that my amendment was quite as wide and comprehensive as it should have been, and therefore I send up a substitute. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Will the gentleman permit a question before he goes on? MR. GRAHAM—I desire to refer him to section 38 of Article I V of the present Constitution, which states: ''No State office shall be continued or created for the inspec¬ tion or measuring of any merchandise, manufacture or commodi¬ ty; but any county or municipality may ap])oint such officers, when authorized bv law,’' and ask if his resolution or amendment of yesterday does not by implication create, or give the Legisla¬ ture the right to create offices of this kind? MR. WHITE—Well, Mr. President, that is the section com¬ monly known as the "coal oil” section. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I understand that the gentle¬ man had some indirect connection with the coal oil business a year or two ago. 1158 OFF! C1A L 1VK () CE lU )i N G S AIK. WHFTK—^ cs, 1 biinud sonu* of it, and 1 vvalclud the sufforiii^^ public burn more, d'lu* Sii])rcnie Gourl of tlic Stale de¬ clared this coal oil act void, btil the .gentleman n(»\v a>k> if my substitute does not in etfect repeal that pri>vision. AIK. (iKAIf.AM (Tailadei^a) And o]>en it ip) a.pain for such offices ? MK. \\ ,11 Kflv--(th. no. Al\ fi'ieiid, that old argument has pla\ e(l out. W’e \\e)rk(*(i tliat for all it w as worth two \ ears ai^o. (Applause). 1 did that, and tlte olhcu' nieiubers of the “scjuadrcut” did the same. AIK, iiK.AHAAl ('falladei^a)--1 am afraid the .pentleinan is tr\ itip- to work it a^ain. AIK. W’l 1 ri'lv —If 1 am, it is throu.ph inv friend over here, who was a t)art of the command. W ill the clerk read the sub¬ stitute r 'The substittUe was read a.s follows: v^'Ubstitute for amendment <»ff(‘red by Air. CA >bb to Section 1. Article XI. as re])orted by Committee on 'J'axation : Xo tax shall be imposed or license recpiired of the manufac¬ turer or ])roducer of any commodity or merchandise for scllini^ or exchaiip-inif the same, and no inspection tax or license shall be imposed for the insi)ection (u* analwJnp of any commodity of mer¬ chandise in excess of the reastmable cost of such ins])ection or analysis. Provided, the ta,p tax now' imposed by law nia}^ remain in force until Se]nember dOtli, PK)3, and, i)rovided, further, that the i)rovisions of this section shall not a])])ly to the manufacture of vinous, s])iritous or malt licpiors. AIK. HARRISON—Alay I ask you what ca])tion or title you would put to that bill? AI K. \\ i 1111%—I will attend to that when 1 iL^i'ct to the Com- niittca* on Flarmony and Consistenc}'. I am not now dressing it ii]). I am ydviiyp it to you in such lan^mat^w* as you can take it in. (Jf course, it woivt do to draw it too fine at the start. 1Mie ^^entleman from Lee might not take it that strong. AIK. ()XleAP (Lauderdaky) — Will the geiitleman ]>ermit a (juestion ? AIR. W Fin'F^—Yes, sir. AIR. ONlvAL (Lauderdale)—I ask sim])ly for information. I did not understand very fully your substitute, but does it con¬ template prohibiting the Legislature from imposing any license tax on any article or commodity? CM vS 1' n' L' TIO X AI - C () X vn N 'I' K ) X, ! 'X) I 1159 MR. WHITE—Wait a moment, and I will j^ive you the e.x- ])lanation a.s I under.stand it. ^I'he first clause of that section pro¬ vides that no tax shall be imposed or license reciuired ol the pro¬ ducer or manufacturer, while he is euffa^ed in senin,- injT his ))roducts. d'hat is the idea. My ])urpose was in that, to prevent a tax or a license ])einjj imposed, for in.stauce, up() tlir form of taxation: llu*\ can >c'ml the ct‘nt"^ to the '1 rcaMircr for cvcr\ ton of fertilizer thee hue. After ann(»inieeni(mt of xot'ial committr'e nn inin^s, tin* C(m- vention a(ljoiinu‘(l until ^ o'clock ]>. in. AF'rifKNA K)X SI'.SSIOX. The C'nii\ lUiln *11 w a^' callt^al to oiak'r h\' the Pre^'ident, and the roll call showed 137 deleifatis ])r(‘^enl. MR. \\'Jirri\—I have onl\ a few words to say and then 1 am done. d'he evils to he correctc'd h\ this aniendinem ha\c‘ been accentuated hv the le\ v of 2 \-2 jier cent ad x alorcnn on the fanner. Xow it amounts to just that much. l>ut we are told that this ])rovisi(.)n is too broad, that it exempts every cortiora- tion from a corporation tax. 'That is not true, as 1 undemstand it. It is said that it ])rcvents the lei^islature from levyinii^ anv tax in the way of license u])on a dealer. That is not corri'ct. It is said that it t)revents municipalities from levvin^ a tax ipion the occupation of the manufacturer, d'hat is not true. The ])ro\'ision is that no tax sliall be collected from the ])roducer or manufac¬ turer for sellini^ or exchaipi^in^", that is. for exami)le, you cannot tax him one (piarter or ()iu‘-half of one ])er cent upon his sales, and that is all it means, that jiart of it. It don't mean anvthino- else, and if you will listen at the readinet' of the sulistitute xou will see that this is true. Nowa Mr. President, one other word. W'e claim tliat the lexyiniL:^ of this tax and the a])])ro])riation of it to what are called agricultural schools in Alabama is wroni;'. W'roni;, l)ecause one class pays the tax and all classes have the rii^-ht to ])atronize the schools. But, Mr. [’resident, rather than strike these institutions down, rather than break faith with them, the substitute ])rovides that until Sei)tembcr 30th, 1003, the farmers of Alabama will bear this injustice and after that time, the le.uis- lature can make i)rovisi(m for the schools in some other tvay. AIK. 1\.()BINS()N (Chambers)—\\ ill the ^entlemaji i^errnit me to ask a (jiiestion.*' MR. Wlirri^—Certainly. MR. RCOBINSON—1 would ask if this would a])])ly to the manufacturers of patent medicines, or tliose who sell them. AIR. WHId'K—Vou could not collect on his sales but you could collect for his factory and c)n the merchandise on his store. AIR. R( )J)IXS()N—I hey don t generally h«'ive anv there. AIR. \VHITE—Then it would not a])ply to manufacturers of vinous, spirituous and malt liquors, because that ou.£,dit to be re^ni- lated by the police power without reference to the volume de- CO N vS^' I 'P 1'I ()M AI, CON V l-.N T ION, 1 <>l) 1 1161 rived. Now I ask unanimous consent that the substitute be adopt¬ ed in place of my own amendment—f mean to be accepted for it. d'H!*: PRESIDENT—The j?entleman asks unanimous con¬ sent to accept the substitute in lieu of the amendment offered by him. Is there objection? The Chair hears none. MR. (3’NEAL—^Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question ? M R. W H ITE—Certainly. MR. O’NEAL—I notice your sul)stitute provides “No tax shall be imposed or licen.se required of the manufacturer of any commodity or merchandise for selling- or exchanging the same? MR. WHITE—Selling or exchanging. MR. O'NEAL—Does not a gas i)lant and an ice plant sell their products? MR. WHITE—Yes, I suppose they do but you cannot levy a tax upon the ice that is sold, in the sense that you cannot levy a per cent tax, but you can levy a tax upon the irroducts, if you keep the ice from melting. MR. 0’NE:AL—Don’t your substitute prohibit the imposi¬ tion of a license tax or a privilege tax for selling their products? MR. WHITE—Yes, for selling or exchanging only. MR. McMILLAN (Wilcox)—Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, it is with a degree of reluctance that I ask you to hear me make a few remarks on the pending proposition. T feel and realize that this debate has been rather prolonged, and that it should draw to a close, but, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, this is a question that I feel vitally interested in, and I feel that every farmer in Alabama is interested in this question, and being actuated only by one i^rinciple in life, to he sure you are right and then go ahead, is the reason I appear be¬ fore you this evening. Gentlemen, I believe that every member of this Convention is actuated solely by a desire to do that which is just, and that which will subserve the best interests of our people, and most especially that class of people whose limited means preclude the possibility of their appearing before legislative bodies and speak¬ ing in their own behalf. The assertion has been made that the farmers have not manifested any interest in legislation along this line. I challenge that assertion, and state that that it is a mis¬ taken idea. I was a member of the last General Assembly of Ala¬ bama. I was assigned to a place on the Committee on Agricul¬ ture. Other members of that committee, as well as myself, realiz¬ ing that this burden of a tag tax had weighed heavily upon one 1162 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS class of our people, and desirinfr that they should be rid of this burden in a measure, introduced a bill in the Legislature, reduc¬ ing this tag tax from fifty to thirty-five cents. This bill was referred to the Committee on Agriculture. After looking into all the facts in connection with the matter, we returned the bill to the House, with the unanimous endorsement and approval of every member of that committee. Now, gentlemen, they assert this is a matter that should be delegated to the legislative body. 1 say it is, too, but I have seen it demonstrated on the door of the Legislature that such a measure cannot be passed, and if you wish me to assign reasons, I will say that not less than twenty members of the Legislature come from counties and sections where they have these Agricultural Schools. Some more come from Auburn. All of these are interested in the maintenance of these schools, and, sir, these members, in connection with the lobby which will come down from each of these schools, will constitute themselves into floor managers on such occasions, and sir, I say that they will invariably prevent such a meritorious bill passing the Legislature of Alabama. Now I will say in this connection, that that bill did pass the Legislature, after a hard fought struggle, and went to the State, and sir, it never came out of the committee there. It never did. And, past experience leads me to believe that such will be the case in the future. Now, gentlemen, I believe that this is class legislation, pure and simple. I, too, am in favor of havdng an analysis of every ton of fertilizer which is used in the State of Alabama, but. Mr. President, myself, as well as numbers of farmers in this State, believe that this is entirely too much sugar for a dime. We are informed that the proceeds accruing from this tag tax to date, for the first half of this year, amount to ninety-seven thousand dol¬ lars. Now, gentlemen, shall the farmers of Alabama pay to Au¬ burn the sum of $16,166 for an analysis of fertilizer and maintain a school where not more than one-third of its pupils come from farmers’ homes? Shall the farmers of Alabama pay to this school $16,166 for an analysis of fertilizers, when this analysis could be made by one chemist, at an expense not exceeding five to ten thousand dollars? But, gentlemen, I will say, that were this the only reason, I believe that the farmers of Alabama, in their kind¬ ness and their generosity, would accede to this, but it goes further, and does what? Why, sir, they maintain nine or ten so-called Agricultural Schools, which, as has been said upon this floor, do not teach agriculture. I say that they maintain these nine or ten Agricultural Schools at a total cost of about thirty thousand dol¬ lars. Nor is that all. This leaves a net balance of say about sixty thousand dollars, and where does this go? It is not paid to the fund for the education of the common mass of children whose limited means will always deprive them from crossing the thres- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1163 hold of Auburn, and whose location will prevent them from at¬ tend these Agricultural Schools, but sir it is converted into the general fund for all State purposes. Now is that right? Is it right to impose this double tax upon one class of our people? Mr. President, I too am interested in farming. I both sell and use this commercial fertilizer and I say with an equal degree of fairness and with a like result you might impose a tax of one or two dollars on every ton in Alabama and with the proceeds resulting therefrom establish eighteen or twenty High schools and convert the remainder into the general fund for all State pur¬ poses. I feel that this tax should be abolished, if not abolished in toto that at least it should be limited to the amount that would only pay for the analysis of the fertilizers which the farmer uses on his ground. Mr. Samford (Pike) was recognized. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I would like to understand the situation. The amendment has been accepted, I believe? THE PRESIDENT—Yes, sir. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—And the question is now upon the amendment? THE PRESIDENT—The adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Jefferson. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I would like for the gentleman to give me permission to make a few remarks on this as he pro¬ poses to close. MR. SAMFORD—Ordinarily out of the extreme respect that I have for my distinguished friend from Greene, I would yield the floor to him, but this discussion has proceeded for quite a while. MR. COLEMAN—The discussion has been upon the fertilizer tax. That subject is lost sight of entirely by this amendment. MR. SAMFORD—I will ask the gentleman from Greene if he favors the abolition of the fertilizer tax? MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I would ask the gentleman if his permission for me to speak depends on my answer to that question? MR. SAMFORD—It does not; but I decline to yield the floor. Mr. President, on Monday I had the honor of introducing an amendment to the report of the Committee on Taxation which I thought would bring tardy justice to a large number of my con¬ stituents, and to the farming classes in the State of Alabama. To that amendment with my consent and approval, an amendment was offered by the gentleman from Henry (Mr. Espy) yielding 1164 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS a small part of the rights that I contended then and contend now are due to that class of our citizenship. Because of my espousal of the cause of the farmers of Alabama, gentlemen who succeeded me on this floor have seen fit by insinuation and inuendo to ascribe motives other than those of a pure nature to my effort by saying and often referring to the fact that I come from a county in which is located a fertilizer factory. I desire to say to them and that I am in no way connected with any fertilizer factory, either as attorney or as stockholder. I desire to say^ further than no of¬ ficer of that corporation has ever approached me upon the subject of asking me to make any effort to relieve the farmers of the State of the tax of 50 cents per ton which they pay upon the fertilizer. Upon the contrary, in a conversation with the president of that institution in Pike county, he informs me it is an immaterial mat¬ ter with the Tro}^ Fertilizer Company because it is charged into the cost of production and is paid by the farmers why buy the products of that factory. Now, members upon this floor when they saw they were hard driven and hard pressed for an argu¬ ment to meet the charges which had been made against this in¬ iquitous tax made the effort to belittle and cast it aside by^ saydng it is nothing but a legislative function, I do not pretend to be a great lawyer. I am merely an hum¬ ble member of that fraternity, but I say to you and to the mem¬ bers of this Convention that among the first principles that were taught me in the law was that a Constitution was the only place where limitations might be put upon taxation or any kind of legis¬ lation in a State. Prohibitions and restrictions are the province of State Constitutions in contravention to the theory of the National Constitution. That being a fact, if it is within the province of this Constitution to place a limit upon legislation and upon taxation in part, why is it that members of this Convention hesitate to give protection to a class of people who, on account of their pov¬ erty are unable to form combines and lobbying combinations to come to Conventions and Legislative bodies for their own pro¬ tection. MR. KIRK—I understood you to say awhile ago that the president of one of these institutions stated to you that the farmer paid the tax? MR. SAMFORD—I did, most assuredly. MR. KIRK—Will you please state how that institution evades the statute which enables the farmer to defeat the collection of a debt incurred in the purchase of fertilizers under circumstances of that kind. MR. SAMFORD I will do so with a great deal of pleasure a little further along in my remarks. Now, Mr. President, if we have a right, and I announce it as my firm conviction, that this Convention has not only the power CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1165 but the right and it is one of their proper functions to grant this relief, why is it that they hesitate? It is said by some—it has been argued upon this floor and it has been urged in private lob- bying among the members of this Convention that the farmers don t pay the tax. It has been urged upon this floor that there is a statute in our Code which prohibits a manufacturer or dealers of any fertilizer from adding this tag tax into the price so as to make the farmer pay it. Now, let us see what that amounts to. In the first place, it is a doctrine too well established by the Democratic party and by common sense, for anyone to say that the consumer does not pay scintilla and every cent that goes into either the production or the cost of production of any article that he uses. Every one of these factories has at its head the best business men in the community. Every one of these factories is run upon business principles. Every one of them is anxious to make a dividend for their stockholders, so that they may retain their lucrative positions. That being the case, the President's, the per diem of the directors, the salary of the man who fires the en¬ gine. of the man who feeds the cotton seed to the hopper, of the man who takes it away from the press, of the man who turns the oil in the tank—all of their salaries are added in just as the cost of the original crude material is added in, and in adding in these amounts, they include this 50-cent tax placed upon it by the State of Alabama, and I can answer the gentleman by relating a little incident. He asks me how it can be evaded. There was a captain of a vessel which plied the waters of the Atlantic. He went across to London or Liverpool and walked into an office, and he was dressed in a very seedy fashion, out of date and out of style. The captain of another vessel came up and said, ‘‘Look here, captain, what is the matter that you can't dress up any bet¬ ter?" The first captain replied, “My salary is not sufficient." “Why don't you add it in your expense account?" “I don't think the company will permit that." “Oh, yes, they will," said the second captain. “The next time you make an expense account put in for a suit of clothes." So when the seedy captain went back he added in one suit of clothes, $50, and he took it up to the Auditor of his company. The Auditor said, “This is all right, ex¬ cept that I see you have $50 added for a suit of clothes." “Yes, that is there. I know I ought not to have put it there, and you can strike it out." So the next time he met his friend he said to him, “I added that $50 in and the company wouldn't stand it; they struck it out." “Did you add it in for a suit of clothes?" said his friend. “Yes." “Well, let me fix it for you the next time you make out an account." So, instead of putting down $1,000 for pro¬ visions," the account was made out $1,050, and when the captain took it into the Auditor, the Auditor said, “Yes, it is all right; you have not got that suit of clothes in there." “Oh, yes, I have, but you don't see it." That is the way with the manufacturer of fer¬ tilizer. This 50-cent tax is in there, but you dop't see it. ? 1166 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS But, Mr. President, the fact that the tax upon the farmer is small, the fact that it is infinitesimal in some instances, is no rea¬ son why an injustice should be done to them. As a matter of fact, in some instances the tax amounts to a larg-e amount with the farmers, especially in my section of the country. I can well un¬ derstand why it is that the farmers in some sections of the State have practically no interest in this great question, but when you observe the vast amount of commercial fertilizer that is sold in the wire-grass section of this State, where the lands are made to produce readily and to respond to the hand of the farmer when assisted by commercial fertilizers, you can readily understand why it is that the representatives of that section of the State should be here on this Convention floor pleading for their rights and for justice to be done them. Now, let us see what becomes of this tax. Another argument has been made. Some of the members upon this floor say we should not reduce this tax or take the tax off entirely, for the reason that there will be a disruption of some of the educational institutions of this State. I desire now to say to the members of this convention that I am not an enemy of any of the institutions within the confines of this State. I am proud of its University. I am proud of its agricultural and mechanical colleges. I am proud of its high schools, whether they be sup¬ ported by a tax from one community or a tax from another com¬ munity. I am proud of its great common school system, but if they are great institutions, and if they are worthy to stand, they ought to be supported by appropriation from the general treasury, so that every man in this State should bear his equal propor¬ tion of the burden. MR. O’NEAL—Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question? MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—Yes, sir. MR. O NEAL—Is it not true that while claiming to protect the farmer, the effect of this substitute will be to exempt all or¬ ganized capital engaged in manufacturing of all privilege or ad valorem tax for selling or exchanging products? Will it not pre¬ vent any privilege tax being levied on gas plants, ice plants, cot¬ ton mills, oil mills and factories of that kind throughout the State, and won’t it revolutionize the whole tax theory and substitute the single tax theory of Henry George, a tax only on real estate? MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I would have preferred to answer the gentleman in the course of my remarks, but as he puts the question, I say no, and that argument only comes from the op¬ position, the enemies to the farmers of this State. It is only an argurnent to becloud and cover up the real issue in this matter, and the astute questions that are being propounded are for that and no other purpose. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1167 MR. BOONE—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. SAMFORD—A gentleman who is representing a school which has always received special .privileges from the State of Ala¬ bama ought always to be recognized. MR. BOONE—Don’t you, as a laAvyer, understand that the Supreme Court of Alabama has distinguished between an ad va¬ lorem and a license tax? MR. SAMFORD—I suppose every lawyer knows that. MR. BOONE—Well then, sir, I will ask you this, reading from the amendment “that no tax shall be imposed” disjunctively now. “Or license required,” if that does not prohibit the imposi¬ tion of any tax upon the manufacturer. MR. SAMFORD—Have you a copy of that? MR. BOONE—Yes, sir. MR. SAMFORD—Will you give it to me? MR. BOONE—Now don’t that prohibit the imposition of any tax, as the gentleman from Lauderdale suggested, and also pro¬ hibit the imposition of any occupation or business tax? MR. O’NEAL—I asked the question in perfect good faith, if that is not the provision—I don’t think you intended it that way, but I think that is the legal meaning that it prohibits any privilege tax on corporations. MR. SAMFORD—I will answer the gentleman’s question by asking him another one: If we bring in an amendment here that will take off the tax on fertilizers, will the gentleman from Lau¬ derdale support it, if it does not have the effect that you object to here? MR. O’NEAL—I am opposed to taking the tax off any com¬ modity. Let me state why. MR. COLEMAN (Greene.)—Let me ask a question: If you can satisfy any lawyer here that that resolution will stand the test of the court, I would like to hear the argument. In support of your proposition just now that it did not prohibit an ad valorem or privilege tax. If I understand the meaning of words, that is what I think it does. MR. O’NEAL—I understand the opposition to this tax on fertilizer is because it is used entirely by the farmers of the State. MR. SAMFORD—Paid entirely by the farmers of the State. MR. O’NEAL—Does the gentleman advocate incorporating in the Constitution that taxation which is paid exclusively by any class of our citizens ought not to be levied? 1168 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SAMFORD—I do not, but I do advocate the principle that no tax should be levied for the ostensible purpose of being: for the benefit of any particular class, and then after having: filched it from the people in any such- a style as that to apply to the support of other institutions. MR. O’NEAL^—That would be an argument which should be addressed to the legislature. It would be a very strong one and which I would support. MR. SAMFORD—I will ask the gentleman from Lauderdale and the gentleman from Greene, in reply to their questions, if when the amendment of the gentlemen from Henry was up on yester¬ day limiting this matter to the fertilizers of this State, if they did not both vote against it? MR. COLEMAN—You want me to answer? MR, SAMFORD—Yes, sir. MR. COLEMAN—On yesterday I voted upon a principle according to my convictions of what the Convention ought to do. This time I oppose the resolution because it is vicious in itself. My position is this, if we are to have a tax or prohibition of a tax, let us have it in the least objectionable form possible, but don’t put that in the Constitution. MR. SAMFORD—They have broken into the thread of my argument by bringing me at once to a direct consideration of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Jefferson which read: No tax shall be imposed, or license required, of the manufacturer or producer of any commodity or merchandise for selling or ex¬ changing the same.’' The difficulty with the gentlemen who have made the arguments by their questioning has been, that in reading the substitute offered by the gentleman from Jefferson, they failed to go far enough. Now, I do say that this substitute would pro¬ hibit the levying of a tax on the sale of gas; it would prohibit the levying of a license or a tax on the sale of ice; it would prohibit the levying of a tax on the sale of cotton goods or cotton cloth; it would prohibit the levying of a license or other tax on the sale of manufactured iron, but it would not prohibit the levying of an ad valorem tax upon every dollar’s worth of property that they have and also upon the corporations that do the manufacturing. MR. WALKER (Madison)—Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? MR. SAMFORD—Certainly. MR. WALKER—Will it also prohibit the levying of a tax on dirks, bowie knives, pistols, etc.? MR. SAMFORD—Upon the manufacturers. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1169 MR. WALKER—Yes, and by the dealers? MR. SAMFORD—Yes, sir, it would do that. MR. HOWZE—Would it prohibit the levying of a tax on sewing machines, etc.? MR. SAMFORD—Yes, sir; and I would ask the gentleman, in reply to that, if it would limit it to the fertilizers of the State, would he vote for it? MR. HOWZE—I would not. MR. SAMFORD—Then the gentleman has no right to inter¬ rupt me, if he does it otherwise than for a good purpose—to the main issue. MR. HOWZE—I would ask the further question if that would not, in effect, be a repeal of the statute providing for a license tax upon the sale of these identical articles by the manufacturers ? MR. SAMFORD—That it might do, but, Mr. President, the main question that has been before the Convention during the whole time, and the main argument the whole time, and the main arguments that have been advanced by all of the advocates of this measure, have applied to a limitation upon a tax upon fertili¬ zers which were used by the farmers of this State, and if these gentlemen who are so anxious to avoid the iniquities of a resolu¬ tion which they say will be vicious, then I ask them if they would vote for a motion to take the resolution of the gentleman from Henry from the table. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman’s time has expired. MR. SAMFORD—I desire to amend this resolution, Mr. Pres¬ ident, by striking out “license.” THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman’s time has expired. MR. SAMFORD—I have a right to offer an amendment by striking out the word “license.” MR. O’NEAL—I rise to a point of order; it is an amendment to an amendment; you cannot amend an amendment. MR. BROWNE—So long as the sole effect of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson to the section as reported by the committee, was to prohibit the levying of a tax upon fer¬ tilizers, I did not consider that it was my duty, as chairman of the Committee on Taxation, to take part in the discussion. But since the introduction of the substitute by the gentleman from Jefferson and which has been, by unanimous consent, adopted in place of his amendment, I deem it incumbent upon me to say a few words. 1170 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS A great many objections to the substitute have been shown by questions propounded to the gentleman from Pike. If that substitute is adopted, we have in one moment come to the single tax system of Henry George. No longer can we levy any tax upon manufactures. The manufacturers of any or all kinds of mer¬ chandise can establish agencies in every town or city in the State of Alabama and carry on their business without paying any tax whatever. The majority of the cities and towns of Alabama levy a tax upon the gross amount of sales of merchandise. If you de¬ stroy that tax, you must at least double the rate of taxation in those cities and towns of Alabama. You must increase the tax upon real estate. You must violate the pledge made by the Demo¬ cratic State Convention that you would not raise the limit of taxa¬ tion, because you would in towns and cities be forced to double that taxation. It would, in effect, destroy all license taxes save alone the exception that the substitute allows—a license tax upon liquor. It is a well known fact that a great part of the revenues of the cities and towns of Alabama is derived from license taxes on foreign manufacturers and foreign corporations. Under the pro¬ visions of this law, they would establish branch agencies through¬ out the State of Alabama, do the whole business of the State of Alabama and escape taxation. Now, as to the argument that the farmer pays this fertilizer tax. If it be true that the consumer ultimately pays all taxes, which I deny, then abolish the tax upon your banks, because the poor farmer when he borrows the money from the bank, must pay that tax. Abolish your license tax upon sewing machines, because that tax must ultimately be paid by the poor women of the country who buy the machines. Abolish every other license tax of that kind, because it ultimately comes out of the farmer, and then double the tax upon his produce and his land, and then go home and see if you receive his thanks. When you do abolish these taxes you must of necessit}^ double the tax upon his property. Mr. President, I, for one, regard the pledges made by the Democratic party in the last convention. There are three pledges in the platform pre-eminent above all others. One of them was that we should take no backward steps in matters of education. Another was that we should not raise the limit of taxation. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—Is there any pledge in there that you should continue a tax upon one class only of your citizens for the purpose of running nine little agricultural schools? MR. BROWNE—I will answer the gentleman's question: There is a pledge that you will take no backward step in the matter of education. There is another that we should decrease the limit of State taxation if possible. If you cut down this tax that you were not pledged to cut down—that was not an issue in the cam¬ paign—and thereby destroy these schools and leave it optional with future Legislatures, to re-establish them, you do violate the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1171 pledge that said you would take no backward step in matters of education. If, on the other hand, the substitute of the gentleman from Jefferson is adopted, you take away the enormous fund that is paid into the treasury of the State of Alabama from these license taxes, and you destroy our ability to comply with that pledge to reduce the limit of taxation if possible. If that substitute is adopt¬ ed, you not only cannot reduce the limit of taxation, but you will have to increase it. The substitute reads, “No tax shall be imposed or license re¬ quired of the manufacturer or producer of any commodity or mer¬ chandise for selling or exchanging.” MR. COLEMAN—You stop just a little too soon. The first line is “No tax shall be levied or license required.” and just below there is says, “No tax for inspection.” If no tax can be levied, why put that “no tax for inspection?” MR. BROWNE—If we are not allowed to collect a tax on a man’s business of selling or exchanging manufactures foreign States could do all the business in the State by establishing branch agencies. MR. SMITH (M. M.)—Are you willing to do a thing indi¬ rectly that you are not willing to do directly? MR. BROWNE—I do not fully understand the import of the gentleman’s question. If he will make it plainer, I will answer. MR. SMITH (M. M.)—Are you willing indirectly to levy a tax on the farmer when you are not willing to come out directlv and levy it on him? MR. BROWNE—In 1882 I had the honor of being a member of the lower House of the Legislature. Mr. Hawkins was also a member I had the misfortune of being on the wrong side of the question at that time. I fought the levy of this special tax and 1 recollect the argument made by the farrners in this House, at that time that we lawyers would not admit that the farmers know what they wanted, that they wanted to tax themselves to estab¬ lish this agricultural department. They did create it. They fixed the amount of tax on each ton of fertilizer and to this good day I have never heard a farmer complain of it except upon the floor of this Convention. And under that self-imposed tax has grown up in the State of Alabama a most magnificent system of what are termed agricultural schools. Call them local high schoo s, if you wish but local high schools containing about 2,250 pupils from 53 counties of the State of Alabama and supported by a self-im¬ posed tax upon fertilizers. And they are now sought to be de¬ stroyed by withdrawing from them their only means of support without proposing anything in lieu thereof except the uncertain support to be proyided by some future legislature. If these agri- 1172 OFFICIAL PROCKFDINGS cultural schools or high schools arc to be maintained, and if the legislature will not appropriate anything for the pur])ose, tell me how they can be supported? Is it not better to let this matter alone for future legislatures? They were estal)lished l)y legisla¬ tures, the fund was provided by legislation, and the tax levied by the legislature. MR. ESPY—You say the farmers desired this tax for the purpose of establishing schools. Did they ask in addition to S25,000 that the schools get, that they should l)e taxed an addi¬ tional sum of $50,000 to be paid into the general treasury for which they get no benefit except as the other ])eot)le also get? MR. BROW'NJi—They fixed the rate at fifty cents a ton. And when the fund grew larger than was necessary to maintain the agricultural department in the interests of the agriculturalists of Alabama these schools were established. I have been told that at S 3 dacauga there are two hundred and seventy-five pupils and over two-thirds of them are the children of farmer parents. So 1 deny' that the farmers reap no benefits from them. MR. COBB—If there are any in this Convention Avho seek the floor to take care of their future political aspirations or for any other purpose, except to aid the Convention in the discharge of the important and delicate duties devolving upon us, I am not of that number. Certainly on this occasion I am i^rompted by the purest motives of duty. I think we have under consideration a most im¬ portant matter, in the view I shall take of it. And in that view^ I have not considered and do not propose to consider the merits of this contention. My' desire simply is to again, as I have done be¬ fore, enter a solemn protest against loading down the Constitution of the State of Alabama with matters which do not properly be¬ long to it. I have recently had my attention called to a criticism appear¬ ing in The North American Review which I will ask the clerk to read. It is a criticism upon the Constitutional Convention of South Carolina. The clerk read the article as follows: ^‘One of the most no¬ ticeable features of this Convention and its work is the want of knowledge shown of the proper sphere of a Constitution and of the difference between what should be put in the Constitution and what should be left for the legislature to enact as statutes. No one seems to have pointed out that a Constitution should contain onK^ the great fundamental organic law, leaving the details of law-making to the legislature. The members of this Convention failed to grasp this principle, and, therefore, their work included too much mere law-making. It was even moved by one member that there shall be no session of the legislature this year but the Convention shall do this work in its place. It would have been CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1173 but a step further for the Convention to continue on indefinitely in session and carry on the business of the State/' MR. C()B1)-—I submit to members of this Convention if to an extent, this criticism does not apply to this Convention? When we consider the many and various propositions that have been made, propositions to confer upon the people of the State of Ala¬ bama power, propositions to permit the leg'islature to do this and to do that, I am very much inclined to the opinion that we may take that deliverance as a note of warning. I do not propose to repeat that argument which has been abl}^ and repeatedly made upon this floor as to the true nature of a Constitution and the true functions which it should perform. E\ery intelligent man under¬ stands that in accordance with the original theory of our republi¬ can institutions the people of every State organized in a State is a political community having all power and whenever they pro¬ pose to ordain an instrument or make a Constitution, they do it only for the ])urpose of putting limitations u])on their own author¬ ity.' And I go further, and say that in framing a State Constitution even these negatives shoukrbe limited in extent and in number. No restriction should be put upon the legislature of the State ex¬ cept in regard to those few matters in reference to which there is danger that the people themselves may be struck from their feet in times of unusual and great political excitement. That is the reason that we put into our State Constitution, if I may use the expression in this connection, limitations. Now, what are we here for, why do we assemble here to make, or rather'I should say, to amend the Constitution? We are here for certain great purposes. When we have accomplished these purposes, the people expect that w^e shall call a halt. None of vour constituents dreamed that you would come here for the pur¬ pose of tearing to pieces the Constitution under which they have lived contentedly for so many years. None of them expected that you would arrogate to yourselves the superior power of teh- ine them what their pow'ers are and how these powers should be exercised. I want to repeat what I said on another occasion, that we are no more than the members of the Legislature, agents of the people, servants of the people, bearing a commission and that Admission we are only authorized ^nd required to perform and not beyond that. What is that commission I ask? We were sent here to determine as to the right of citizenship. We were sent here for the purpose of determining and writing m the fundamen- teUaw a limit upon the privileges of suffrage. We were serrt here to write in the Constitution a stern and strong limitation upon the power of the Legislature to pass local and private laws and the people expected when we had performed these duties that ve would adjourn and leave them through their other agents selected bv them amenable to them, who would assemble together in the various Legislatures of the State to determine these other questions which have been thrust upon us from time to time. I had al 1174 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS most said ad nauseam. They expected another thing’. They expected that in thirty or forty days this work wtvuld have been accomplished and that we would have retired to our homes and submitted it to them for their consideration. That time has passed and we have scarcely begun the work and we are being criticised and justly criticised all over the State of Ala¬ bama for this unseemly delay. I was of those who stood op¬ posed to any extreme measure looking to the limiting of debate. I was one of those who believed that we had better stay here a longer time than that limited to us by the Legislature, if need be paying our own expenses, in order that we might frame a funda¬ mental law which would last through all the years, and which would secure to Alabama that peace, quiet, contentment and pros¬ perity which we a great people and a great State are entitled to enjoy. But this delay and this trouble has come in every instance from the fact that members have thought it incumbent upon them to write into this fundamental law matters which hitherto had belonged to the Legislature of the State. I say it is time to call a halt. I am aware of the fact that in recent years in the for¬ mation of State Constitutions there has been a departure from these old time land marks. I know that is true, but it is well worthy a consideration of this body of intelligent and cultured rnen whether the time has not come when we should go back a little to first principles and recall the time when republican gov¬ ernments were being organized on this continent that we might learn wisdorn from the conduct of our fathers. Mr. President, every limitation upon the power of the Legislature beyond those things to which I have referred is a menace and an obstruction to the development of the resources of the State. They are matters which after awhile, as development takes place year after year. ■\\ill hamper the people, will check the growth of our institutions and will in that way not only not be an aid but will be an obstruc¬ tion that they must remove if they go forward in the great march of civilization. Let us consider who we are. Alabama is one of the leading States of the American Union, confessedly so, Alabama is great in her wealth and great in her developed resources, great in the quality of her citizenship. She leads the sisterhood of States or will soon lead them. Now you across the pathway of this great people obstructions to their growth, obstructions to the development of bd„l revetepeT"'’ tn ^ promise to undertake to remedy or repeal all unjust laws in Alabama by constitutional provisions. Leave that to the Legislature. But the cry is the Legislature will not act. Whenever the Legislature of AlaLrna refuses to act upon a matter brought to its attention and in which CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1175 the people of the great State are interested, it is proof as strong as holy writ that they ought to refuse. MR. S.AMFORD—I will ask the gentleman if the people have not been applying to the Legislature for relief in the regulation of the railroads of the State a number of years and if, in his opinion, the refusal of the Legislature to give the relief is proof as strong as holy writ that they should have refused? MR. COBB—If the people of Alabama were earnest in that behalf this legislation would have come long, long ago. MR. SOLLIE—If the gentleman will permit me, I have con¬ ferred with the author of the substitute and have his consent to in¬ troduce this amendment to the substitute. MR. O’NEAL—I object. MR. SOLLIE—I will read it as a part of my question to the gentleman. “After January—’’ MR. O’NEAL—I object. THIC PRESIDENT—Does the gentleman from Macon con¬ sent? MR. COBB—Yes. Mr. Sollie read the amendment as follows: After January 1st, 1903, no license tax or fee for analyzing or inspecting any merchandise or commodity shall be imposed or collected in excess of an amount sufficient to pay for the reasonable cost of such analysis of inspection. MR. COBB—I will not consent to that or any other amend¬ ment. because I am opposed to the whole thing. You may offer any amendment you please and the whole matter will meet vith my stern and uncompromising opposition. MR. BULGER—May I ask the gentleman a question? MR. COBB—Yes, sir. MR. BULGER—Don’t you believe that a limitation upon the taxing power is a proper subject to go into the Constitution? MR. COBB—I do. MR. BULGER—Don’t we do that and put a limit on the tax¬ ing power that the tag tax shall not exceed 10 cents on the ton, and is not that a limitation upon the taxing power? MR COBB—As suggested to me, and I think the suggestion is a good one, this is a prohibition upon all taxation. But if the gentleman has done me the honor to listen to my general remarks he -would have understood my position here and that is that the 11 7h O V VIC IA L V[<{)CVA : I) I N'S (.Constitution should be a limitation upon tho pcnvcr of the Lc'^isla- tiire in matters only that it is necessary tliat such limitation should l)e limited to a few ^reat controlliiu^- matter. Tlu' people are not often swe])t away, though they are sometimes, hy liigh political excitement, and never about all (juestions. It is only with regard to certain great leading matters that we want even these limita¬ tions upon their ])o\ver and then as time |)rogresses, as the State develops, as it becomes ajiparently necessary that there should he additional limitations here and there, the people have it in their power to place them there h}' amendments to this instrument. Jefferson, the great a])Ostle of Democracy, said time an|, \n, -ir ; liiry arc iinl. I lie ^^cnllciiiaii laiii^li.- Ml\. Will lli(* ^ciitlcinaii pcrniii a (juolion : M:r. Jlold (.11 and let me llirou^h with thi> xoniii^- inan. I am m.i an ohi man. S<>mciinu*> 1 alnio-i think I am cik* of tile- l.ovv yci, i know I like; tiic Ijovs. MIC wiirricsiDir-i rise to iiKjnire whctlicr or not the ^^vu- 1 Icmaii's time* i- emt ? 'IJ1J^ 1‘J\ I)ho\T—Jt lacks fix e* minutes. klJ\. C01i]h“-lM\e iniiuites will do me. 1 sim])ly want to ^av to m\ worth} }ounjy friend- -I don't know wlietlu*!' he is so \ c rv Nounj^- himself—at all events. 1 lia\e l)e(*n knocked ami cuffed and kickc*(I a horn a i; real deal more in ]Kdilic> than he has x et, and I want to dro]) to him a vote of warning;, 'fake* care what sort of r(*cord xou are makini^ liere today in this Constitutional Conven¬ tion. ^d>n max- find that the peejple, whose interests x'ou are de- claiminef for here so elociuently and \ it^orouslx', max- disa<;'ree with xani Avlu'ii you y;et back home, and _\oii may find it difficult to ex- jjlain a wav certain matters that may ha\e en^ui^'ed your attention and ])est efforts here duriiiL^ this service. If we had done, and if we do, wliat 1 believe we oiig-ht to do, x'ou will never ])e in anv daiiL^er. So far as 1 am concerned, I do not care. 1 am a man of the people, and 1 like the ])eo])le, and the peo])le ha\e honored me more, ])erha])s, than 1 deserve on many occasions, but 1 started here todax’ to do my conscientious duty, in fear of no one and no men or set of men. and I Avill be api)roved by the very men whose friends are here so vociferously talking about the ])oor farmer. But my t^ood friend here is very solicitous that 1 should (juit. I expect he is on the other side. MR. O'NEAL—d'he gentleman from Bike asked you the (juestion if it w’as not ])roper to incorporate in the Constitution a limitation on the pow’er of taxation. 1 wdll ask you if this substi¬ tute is not an absolute prohibition of the power of the Lci^islature to tax the ])ro(lucts of any corporation? MR. COP>B—'Phat is what I think, hut. as I said before, I am not stoppinjo;’ to consider the merits of this question. I am pleadin^>- for higher things. 1'hat is what I am after. And noxv, Mr. President, 1 think there ought to be a limitation u])on talk in this hall, as w^ell as a limitation u])on other things, and I move to lay this whole matter on the table. MR. WPIIT]{—On that I call for the ayes and noes. 1178 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS And the call was sustained. MR. deGRAFFENREID—Will you have the amendment read? The substitute for the amendment, offered by Mr. White (Tef- ferson) was again read. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Jefferson offered an amendment to Section 1 of the Article reported by the com¬ mittee; thereupon the gentleman from Jefferson offered a substi¬ tute to his own amendment and asked unanimous consent to accept the substitute in lieu of the amendment. Unanimous consent was granted, hence the substitute stands in the place of the amend¬ ment, and the proposition is on an amendment to Section 1 of the Article reported by the Committee on Taxation. The gentleman from Macon moves to lay that amendment upon the table. Upon that the ayes and noes are called. As many as favor laying the amendment upon the table will vote aye, and those opposed will vote no, as your names are called. During the call of the roll: MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)—I am paired with the gen¬ tleman from Madison, Mr. Walker; if he was present, he would vote aye and I would vote no. MR. CORNWALL—I am paired with Mr. Mulkey of Geneva. If he were present, he would vote no and I would vote aye. MR. FITTS—I am paired with the gentleman from Elmore, Mr. Williams. If he were present, he would vote aye and I would vote no. MR. HOWELL—In a word, I wish to explain my vote on this question. To which objection was made. MR. PARKER (Cullman)—Upon this issue I am paired with the delegate from Blount, Mr. Sloan. Were he present he would note no, and I vote aye. MR. PORTER—I am paired with the gentleman from Jeffer¬ son, Mr. Weatherly. If he were here he would vote aye and I vote no. MR. TAYLOE—I am paired with Mr. Beavers. If he were here he would vote no and I would vote aye. MR. WHITE—I am paired with the delegate from Mont¬ gomery, Governor Jones. If he were present he would vote aye and I would vote no. The vote, upon the call of the roll, resulted as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1179 Messrs. President, Ashcraft, Banks, Barefield, Boone, Brooks, Browne, Burnett, Garden, Carnathon, Cobb, Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Craig, Cunningham, Davis, of Etowah, Dent, Duke, Eley, Eyster, Ferguson, Fletcher, Foster, Glover, Graham, of Montgomery, Graham, of Talladega, Total—78. Bartlett, Beddow, Bethune, Blackwell, Bulger, Burns, Byars, Carmichael, of Coffee, Case, Cofer, Davis, of DeKalb, deGraffenreid, Espy, Foshee, Freeman, Gilmore, Grayson, Total—49. AYES. Grant, Greer, of Perry, Harrison, Hinson, Hodges, Hood, Howell, Howze, Inge, Jackson, Jenkins, Jones, of Wilcox, King, Kirk, Kyle, Ledbetter, Leigh, Lomax, Long, of Walker, AlcMillan (Baldwin), Martin, Merrill, Miller, of Wilcox, Norman, Norwood, Oates, NOES. Haley, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Henderson, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Hale, Kirkland, Knight, Long, of Butler, MacDonald, McMillan, of Wilcox, Malone, Maxwell, Miller, of Marengo, Moody, Murphree, NeSmith, O’Neal, of Lauderdale, O’Neill (Jefferson), Opp, Palmer, Parker, of Elmore, Pettus, Pillans, Pitts, Proctor, Robinson, Rogers, of Lowndes, Sanders, Searcy, Selheimer, Sentell, Smith, of Mobile, Spragins, Stewart, Waddell, Watts, Weakley, Williams, of Barbour, Williams, of Marengo, Wilson, of Clarke, Wilson, of Washington, O’Rear, Pearce, Phillips, Reynolds (Henry), Rogers, of Sumter, Samford, Sanford, Smith, Mac A., Smith, Morgan M., Sollie, Sorrell, Spears, Studdard, Whiteside, Winn. 1180 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGvS ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Alrhon, Altman, Beavers, Carmichael, of Colbert, Cornwall, Fitts, Greer, of Calhoun, Handley, Jones, of Montgomery, Locklin, Total—28, Lowe, of Jefferson, Lowe, of Lawrence, Morrisette, Mulkey, Parker, of Cullman, Porter, Reese, Renfro, Reynolds, of Chilton, Sloan, Tayloe, Thompson, Vaughan, Walker, Weatherly, White, Willet, Williams, of Elmore, MR. BROWNE—We have been four days on the first section of Article XL I now move the previous question upon that sec¬ tion. Upon a vote being taken the main question was ordered, and upon a further vote, a division was called for. MR. SOLLIE—I vote aye for the purpose of moving to re¬ consider the vote. MR. LONG (Walker)—I make the point of order the gentle¬ man cannot vote aye on a viva voce vote. MR. SOLLIE—I stand up as the Chair directed, and vote aye for the purpose of moving to reconsider. THE PRESIDENT—In reference to the point of order made by the gentleman from Walker, the Chair is of the opinion that the point of order is not well taken. In Congress they have a rule that except upon a yea and nay vote, a reconsidertion cannot be moved. In other words that it cannot be ascertained except by a yea and nay vote whether a man voted in the affirmative or in the negative. But all the authorities upon general parliamentary law that the Chair has been able to examine, hold that any one who voted with the affirmative of the proposition may move to reconsider, and it is not limited to instances where the vote was taken by yeas and nays. The Chair preferred to make some state¬ ment upon that question, since it has been raised several times, and it has, therefore, been examined carefully. MR. SOLLIE—Now I move the reconsideration, which I understand don’t come up until tomorrow. The Chair announced by a vote of seventy ayes and thirty- three noes, the section was adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will read the next section. Section 2 was read as follows: Sec. 2. No power to levy taxes shall be delegated to indi¬ viduals or private corporations. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVliNTION, 1901 1181 MR. HOWZE—I move the adoption of the section. Upon a vote being taken the section was adopted. Section 3 was read as follows: Sec. 3. After the ratification of this Constitution, no new debt .shall be created against, or incurred l)y this State, or its au¬ thority, except to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, and then only by a concurrence of two-thirds of the members of each House of the (jcneral Assembly, and the vote shall be taken by yeas and nays, and entered on the journals; and any act creating or incurring anv new debt against this State, except as herein provided for, shall be absolutely void; provided, the Governor may be authorized to negotiate temj^orary loans, never to exceed $300,000 to meet the deficiencies in the Treasury; and until the same is paid, no new' loan shall be negotiated; provided further, that this section shall not be so construed as to prevent the issuance of bonds for the purpose of refunding the State’s existing bonded indebted¬ ness. MR. JENKINS—I move the adoption of that section. MR. OATES—I intended to offer an amendment, and I be¬ lieve it is now'^ five o’clock— THE PRESIDENT—The time for adjournment has not yet arrived. Does the gentleman withdraw the motion? MR. JENKINS—For the purpose of considering the amend¬ ment, I withdraw my motion. MR. OATES—I propose to offer an amendment, and desire that it be read, and I wish to be heard on it before any action is taken. The amendment will come at the close of the section, or w'herever may be the most appropriate place in the latter part of the section. The amendment was read as follow's: That the Legislature shall, at its first session after the ratifi¬ cation of this Constitution authorize the Governor of the State to cause to be issued (8,500,000) eight million, five hundred thou¬ sand dollars, face value of State bonds, to mature fifty years after the date and to bear not more than 4 per cent, per annum, payable semi-annually; and that eight million, four hundred and three thousand six hundred dollars ($8,403,000) of said bonds shall be used exclusively for the redemption by exchange or otherwise, for an equal amount face value of the Class A. Class B and Class C bonds of the State, which when thus redeemed shall be destroyed; and that the bonded debt of the State shall never in any event exceed nine million, five hundred thousand dollars. Sec. 2. That it shall be the further duty of said Legislature, at its first session after the ratification of this Constitution, to 1182 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS authorize the Governor, Auditor and Treasurer of the State, to obtain by purchase, in the name of and for the use of the State Capitol, all of the square of land upon which the Capitol Building:: is situated south of said buildinjj to Washington Street, bounded west by Bainbridge and east by Union Street, provided, said prop¬ erty can be purchased at reasonable prices, but if not in the opinion of the Board, then the same shall be condemned on proceedings, to be instituted by said Board in the name and in behalf of the State, and to be had according to the provisions of Article I, Chapter 42, of the Code of 1896, which shall be applical)le thereto. Sec. 3. That all of the bonds in the first section hereinabove provided for, over and above the eight million, four hundred and three thousand six hundred dollars to be used in redemption or exchange for that amount of outstanding bonds Class A, Class B, and Class C to wit, $96,400, shall be sold by the said Board, con¬ sisting of the Governor, Auditor and Treasurer, after due notice given by publication in at least three daily newspapers, to the highest and best bidder, which said bonds shall bear not more than three and a half per cent, per annum payable semi-annually, and which shall not be sold for less than their face value, and when so sold the proceeds shall be covered into the treasury, and shall be used by said Board to pay for the said lands on said square when purchased or condemned as aforesaid, and so much of the money arising from the sale of such bonds as may be necessary to permanently improve the Capitol Building and to pay for the private property on said square purchased or condemned as afore¬ said may be used for such purposes. Before the reading was concluded the hour of adjournment arrived. By unanimous consent the reading was concluded, and thereupon the Convention adjourned. CORRECTIONS. The point of order made by Mr. Pettus should read: MR. PETTUS—The gentleman from Walker moves to table both amendments, and the Chair has repeatedly held that was a matter in the discretion of the gentleman making the motion, and a call for a division is not in order. PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair so rules. On fourth page, just above roll call, the announcement of a pair with Mr. Hinson was made by Mr. Carmichael (Colbert) in¬ stead of Mr. Carmichael (Coffee). The call for a division on the motion to table the amendment and amendment to the amendment to Section 1 of Report of Com¬ mittee on Taxation, just before roll call on page 4 of proceedings. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1183 was made by Mr. Whiteside, and not by Mr. Parker (Elmore), to whom it was attributed. ^ In proceeding’s of 25th inst, sentence right is right and God is (iod, by Mr. Heflin (Chambers) should be right is right as God is (h)d. THIRTY-SECOND DAY MONTGOMERY. ALA., June 28, 1901. J'he Convention met pursuant to adjournment, was called to order by the President and the proceeding’s were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Lamar, as follows : O Lord we have laid down in peace and slept in safety be¬ cause Thou hast watched over us. And we render to Thee praise and thanksgiving for Thy providential care. And now Lord as we face the duties the temptations, the duties and responsibilities of another day, we ask Divine guidance, grace and strength that we may be properly fitted to meet them all. We beseech Thee to save this day Thy servants from harm. So direct them that their labors may be wise and Lord grant that under Thy direction they may do that which is for the good of our kind and the glory of Thy name. Accept these our prayers, guide us in all our ways, and at last receive us unto Thyself, we ask for Christ sake. Amen. The roll was called and showed the presence of 140 delegates. The following leaves of absence were granted : Indefinite on account of sickness—Mr. Williams (Elmore) ; Mr. Vaughan. For Wednesday, Thursday, Friday—Mr. Willett. For Saturday and Monday—Mr. Boone. Mr. Porter, Mr. Harri¬ son, Doorkeeper. For Saturday—Mr. Mac. A. Smith. Mr. Henderson, Mr. Kirk¬ land, Mr. Long (Butler.) For Saturday, Monday and Tuesday—-Mr. Bartlett; For Thursday, Friday and Saturday—Mr. Beavers. For Friday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday. Mr. Morrisette. For yesterday and today—Mr. Dent from 4 o’clock today until 11 o'clock Monday; Mr. Howell for today and Tuesday. 1184 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS The report of the Committee on Journal that the Journal for the thirty-first day was correct, was read and adopted. On the roll call for the introduction of resolutions, ordinances, etc., the following were introduced. Resolution No. 200 by Mr. Burns (Dallas.) Whereas, this Convention has seen proper to reject all amend¬ ments to Article V looking to the relief of sheriffs, and whereas the Supreme Court, has already been burdened with sufficient la¬ bors ; and, whereas, local government should be maintained and for other valid reasons. Resolved, That it is the sense of this Convention, that Section 30 of Article V, should be stricken out and the sheriffs should be left on the same footing, as other county officers. Referred to the Committee on Executive Department. Ordinance No. 404 by Mr. Coleman (Walker.) Whereas, ample provision is made by law for the impeach¬ ment of officers, and whereas it is contrary to the policy of this government that any part of the powers of our department should be exercised by any officer of another department, and whereas it is contrary to the spirit of our institutions that any person should be punished before trial. Now, therefore, be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled. That the following part of Section 28 of Article V adopted by this Convention be and the same is hereby annulled, to wit: “And the Governor when satisfied after hearing the sheriff, that he should be impeached may suspend him from office until the impeachment proceedings are decided.” Referred to the Committee on Impeachments. MR. DUKE—I have a resolution which I desire to have re¬ ferred to Committee on Consistency and Harmony. Resolution No. 201 by Mr. Duke: Whereas, there appears in The Huntsville Mercury the fol¬ lowing article, to wit: “The past five days have been record breakers in the hot weather line, said a prominent citizen. I have been unable to sleep until the small hours of the night and I am afraid we can’t call Huntsville a summer resort any longer. Last night I couldn’t sleep owing to the heat, so decided to take a stroll over the de¬ serted streets. Now if I was the least bit superstitious, I would say that I have seen ghosts. On every street I would see some white figure sitting in the windows, looking like phantoms in the stillness of midnight. Upon closer investigation the ghosts were CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1185 found to be some poor mortal whose surroundings were as hot as mine. This is the hottest spell we have ever had in the recollection of the oldest inhabitants.” And, whereas, said article indicates a fearful state of suffering m the city of Huntsville from the immense heat in that section of the State. And, whereas, Monte Sano, an erstwhile summer resort is in close proximity the said city of Huntsville and must be suffering also from the intense heat of that region of the State. And, whereas, many delegates to this Convention state that, owing to the strong breeze, they were forced to close the blinds of their windows to prevent catching cold on last night. And whereas, no such condition, to say the least, as that de¬ scribed in the above article prevails in the city of Montgomery. Therefore, be it resolved by this Convention that the citizens of the aforesaid Huntsville, and Monte Sano, be invited to come down to the city of Montgomery and look in upon the Convention, and remain in the said city of Montgomery during the heated season, where the gentle breezes ever blow, and where no such apparitions as that described in the said Huntsville Mercury ever disturb the citizens or its visitors. MR. GRAYSON—Does that refer to the snowy heights of Monte Sano or to the low level of Huntsville. THE PRESIDENT—That is referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Provisions. Resolution No. 202, by Mr. Foster: Resolved; 1 That the Committee on Rules is hereby instruct¬ ed to examine all the reports of the standing committees which have already reported, and the reports which shall hereafter be made by the standing committees, and assign to each section of said report such time as in its judgment should be allowed for debate thereon. 2—That when the time so assigned by the Rules Committee to any section shall have been consumed in debate thereon, all debate on such section and pending amendments shall immediately cease and a vote be taken thereon; provided, that the mover or chairman of the committee proposing the pending matter may, unless he shall have already spoken twice, speak to the matter for fifteen minutes, after the time for debate has closed. 3 That no delegate, except the mover or chairman of the committee proposing the pending matter, shall speak more than once to the same question, for more than ten minutes at any time. The mover or chairman of the committee proposing the pending 1186 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS matter may speak fifteen minutes on opening, and twenty minutes in reply. 4 —This resolution shall not apply to the report of the Com¬ mittee on Suffrage and Elections. Referred to Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 203, by Mr. Graham (Talladega): Resolved, That beginning with next Monday the afternoon sessions of this Convention shall be from 3:30 to 5 ;30 instead of 3 to 5. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 204, by Mr. Heflin (Chambers): Resolved, That after today the Convention shall convene in this hall at 9 o’clock a. m. and remain in session until 1 o’clock; p. m., and reconvene at 3 o’clock and remain in session until 6 o’clock p. m. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 205, by Mr. Jackson: Resolved, That no delegate in this Convention be permitted to speak more than ten minutes on any subject under discussion, except the mover of an amendment or substitute, who may use ten minutes each in opening and closing debate, and the chairman of a committee in the discussion of a report made by the committee of which he is chairman, who shall have thirty minutes to open and close. Provided, that whoever may move to reconsider any action of the Convention shall have the time accorded the chairman of the committee, the report of which committee is under con¬ sideration, provided further that any delegate may have his time extended by permission of the majority of the delegates present. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 206, by Mr. Reese: Whereas, but little time of this Convention is consumed by the regular call of the roll for the introduction of ordinances, resolu¬ tions, etc., and Whereas, much unnecessary consumption of time is had in explaining and obtaining unanimous consent or suspension of the rules for the introduction of ordinances, resolutions, etc.. Therefore, be it resolved, that hereafter the roll call for the introduction of ordinances, resolutions, etc., shall not be suspended except by unanimous consent. Second, that no resolution or ordinances shall be introduced at any other time except by unanimous consent. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1187 Third, it will be in very bad taste on the part of any member taking up the time of this Convention in asking said consent ex¬ cept in dire and pressing emergency. Referred to Committee on Rules. Ordinance No. 405, by Mr. Reynolds (Chilton) : Whereas, the newspapers of the State are highly influential in molding public sentiment, and Whereas, newspapers, as well as individuals, are biased neces¬ sarily in favor of those from whom they receive gratuities. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that no newspaper in this State, or representative, or other free transportation from any railroad company doing busi¬ ness within this State. That the newspaper, in the event that it or its representative, receives, accepts and uses such free transpor¬ tation, shall be fined not less than $500 for each violation of this section of the Constitution, and that the railroad company who itself or through its agent, issues such pass, free pass or transpor¬ tation, shall be fined a like sum for each violation of this section. Referred to Committee on Legislative Department. Mr. Spragins offered the following petitions, which were read on motion. Petition No, 8— Hons. R. E. Spragins, A. S. Fletcher, R. W. Walker, J. W. Grayson and Members of the Constitutional Convention: Huntsville, Ala., June 15, 1901. Believing that privilege licenses as levied and collected from the mer¬ chants of our city is double taxation, and that by such means the merchants are made to pay more than their part of the public burden, we hereby urge you to introduce and work for the passage of an ordinance to be ambodied in the Constitution seeking to protect us from city licenses. (Signed): W. L. Halsey, R. E. & W. E. Pettus, W. J, Bennett & Co., Southern Produce Co., D. V. Amberg, Mgr., J. A. Anderson & Co., T. A. Thurston, Senys Grocery Co., R. King Grocery Co., Mrs. Julia H. Wise, Terry Bros. & Rogers, J. W. Gill, C. B. Wilbor, R. F. Simpson, Shielas & Co., Brown & Phillips, Cantrell & Young, M. S. Barnett, H. Scholle, Duncan & Winston, W. A. Brewer, Wheeler Bros. & Gast, E. Lambert, Laxson & Kelly, Thomas H. Gilbert, L. J. Gaines, S. O. Holmes, E. C. Orgain, A. B. Janies, H. E. Damson, Huntsville Drug Co., Louis Edelman M. D., A. C. McGhee, grocer; W. T. Nichols, J. Keller, M. Adler, Mrs. W, A. Parks, P. Lamborda, J. W. Martin, Demeur Bros., Newman G, Schloss, Charles C. Anderson, W. H. Wteil & Co., M. A. Collins, J. H. McAnelly & Bro., D. W. Tafts, T. H. Wade, W. H. Watkins, Metcalfe & Grosser, R. B. Johnson, C. H. Pulley & 1188 OFKICIAr. PR()CKKDrN(;S Co., J. w. Blake & Bro., Darwin & Fuller, E. T. Terry & Co,, W. S. Siiiith & Co., Alabama Implement & Seed Co., Harrison Bros., Frank H. Neuman, Hiss Vogel. J. D. Graves, Mrs. L. A. Ford, A. S. Daniel, A. E. Overton, C- A. Rankin, J. Jacoby M, Co., A. J. Stewart, H. T. Daniel, K. J. Harrison, ^ - B. Warner, K. Mullins & Co.. Louis Zinsberg Co., A. C. Campbeil, Mur¬ ray <8: White. Petition No. 9— Huntsville, Ala., June 14, 1901. lo Hems. R. E. Spragins, John W. Grayson, A. S. Fletcher, and R. W. Walker, and the Members of the Constitutional Convention: At a meeting of the Wholesale Grocers’ Association held in this city dds morning, the following resolution was ])assed: Resolved, That we, the Wdiolesale Grocers’ Association of the city of Huntsville, most respectfully urge you as onr representatives in the Consti- ttitional Convention, to use your utmost endeavors to have a clause in the Constitution of the State of Alabama, requiring the election of Railroad onimissioners by the people, and paid by the peoi)le, as other officers are paid. We ask this, believing that the interest of the trade generally generally ueniands it as fair and just. Yours very truly, W. L. Halsey, President. R. E. Pettus, Secretary. Re.soIution No. p 207, by Mr. Waddell: Lc it resolved l)y the Constitutional Convention of the State Alabama, that no person shall be entitled to the floor for the purpose of debate for a longer period than ten minutes, except the Chairman of the committee whose article is under consideration, and he shall be allowed twenty minutes to open and ten minutes o close the debate on any subject which is up for consideration undei his article, provided the provisions of this resolution shall uot a|)pl\ to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections. MR. WADDELL I move to suspend the rules for the pur¬ pose of iHitting that resolution on its passage. MR. deCiRAhFENRPJD—I move to lay that motion on the ta])le. 1 HP, PRESIDENT—A motion to suspend the rules cannot be tabled. A vote being taken, the House refused to suspend the rules, and the resolution was referred to the Committee on Rules. I^RESIDENT—The next order of business will be the call of the standing committees. CONS'I'ITL'TIOXAK r() XV l^XTl ()\. m\ 1189 'riu‘ call was completed and no reports maut T feel it mv duty to discuss this amendment liriefly to this Convention and to call the atten¬ tion of the Convention to it and trv to imi)ress upon them just what is meant hv it. All of us know that the State of Alabama has a bonded indebtedness of nine and one-third millions of dollars. Over nine hundred thousand of tliat is represented b}' four per cent, bonds most usuallv called Seay bonds because when Seay was Governor he neq^otiated those lionds in lieu of bonds beariiyq six per cent interest which the legislature had autlnu'ized prior to that time in order t(^ take up wdiat w'as knriwm as Horse vShoe monev. There was a million dollars of that issued bv autln^ritv of the Legislature years before wdiich w'as a kind of lien. You wdll recol¬ lect there were bills of money and coui)ons on the bank in the shape of horse shoes. Thev bore eiq-ht ])er cent, interest and wa're sold in the market frequently as low^ as fifty cents on the dollar, but they improved until they reached par w'iien it w’as found that 1190 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the Legislature proposed to refund them in a six per cent. bond. But that was not conclusive and the Legislature subsequently be¬ lieving that a bond bearing a lower rate could be substituted for them passed an act authorizing the (k)vernor, when Seay held that office, to negotiate such refunding bonds, and he succeeded in negotiating four per cent, bonds which do not mature until 1920. So that amount of our bonded debt is not included at all in the proposition I offer. W^ith the exception of the Seay bonds, repre¬ sented generally bv the letter C, bonds resulting from that settle¬ ment when Mr, Houston, Mr. Lawler and the Governor were the Commissioners and which have always been four per cent, from the first to the present time, $945,000. They are included with the Class A and B bonds and of the Class B there is not quite $600,- 000. They were given for the release of the State or to take up the State’s obligation or bonds which had been unwisely^ issued by act of the Legislature and given to certain railroads to lease the State from its endorsement of their bonds at $16,000 per mile. I believe these bonds were for $5,000 a mile and the amount that had been issued then and used in that way when the credit of the State broke down is represented by the five hundred and odd thousand dollars of bonds and they bear five per cent, intere.^t. Of the Class y\ there is in the neighborhood of $7,000,000, and they ])ear five per cent., as do also the B bonds, and Class C bonds bear four per cent, and all three classes of these l)onds mature five years from the first day^ of next month, Juh* 1, 1906. As the State will not be in condition to pay off these bonds at that time, it is necessary in advance to prepare for some way of meeting this bonded debt. MR. deGRAFFLNREID—ilay' I ask the gentleman a ques¬ tion for information? MR. OATES—Yes, sir. AIR. deGRAFFENREID—Cannot that be done under the section without your amendment by the Legislature? MR. OATES—I think it can possibly be done under that, but 1 have yet to learn that in a delicate matter of so much importance as this, dealing in millions of dollars, there is anything to be lost by being more definite in what we say about it. That is a general ed'^debT'°" Legislature may provide for refunding the bond- vnn The point I want to make is, is not your amendment a legislative act? and simply a direction for the Legislature tion the stenographic report. This sec- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1191 “That the Legislature shall, at its first session after the ratifi¬ cation of this Constitution, authorize the Governor of the State to cause to be issued ($8,500,000) eight million, five hundred thousand dollars, face value of State bonds, to mature fifty years after date and to bear not more than 3 1-2 per cent, per annum, payable semi-annually; and that eight million, four hundred and three thousand six hundred dollars ($8,403,600) of said bonds shall be used exclusively for the redemption by exchange or otherwise, for an equal amount face value of the Class A, Class B and Class C bonds of the State, which when thus redeemed shall be de¬ stroyed.” Then there is a provision that the bonded debt of the State shall never in any event exceed $9,500,000. I put that latter clause in because I think the limit of bonded indebtedness should be declared in the Constitution. It adds somewhat to the value of your bonds when you show to the world that the State is not going to over burden itself with bonds. Now the Legislature of 1894-95 passed an act for this pur¬ pose, to refund the bonded indebtedness and authorized the Gov¬ ernor to do so. I, having the honor at that time of holding that position, went to New York and spent several days in Wall Street trying to effect it. A provision was put into that law which was not just as I advised. It was in substance but the limitations were not. A committee of one of the Houses conferred with me and I advised to facilitate the exchange of bonds to put in a propo¬ sition that the bonds first exchanged should be the last to be re¬ deemed and the last exchanged to be the first to be called, and I suggested to make none of them subject to call for redemption in less than thirty years. They differed with me and made it fifteen. When I went to Wall Street they said “These are but fifteen year bonds because they are subject to be called in fifteen years,” and they calculated their value on that basis and that with another reason rendered it impossible to make an exchange. And that other reason was this; Owing to the language of the present Constitution declaring that any increase of the bonded debt should be wholly void, these bond holders obtained an opinion from an able firm of lawyers, of which I remember Mr. Hornblower was at the head, that if you undertook an exchange of these new bonds (the Governor had them printed and proposed to exchange them) and they said we do not know whether these exceed your present bonded debt or not. We suppose they do not as you have no right to do it, but if they do they will be a nullity and nobody will risk an exchange of a bond that is good for an uncertainty. Therefore under our present Constitution it was impossible to effect a re¬ funding. I failed for these reasons. A subsequent legislature amended that act when Mr. Johnston was Chief Executive, prac¬ tically annulling nearly all the conditions and making them fifty year bonds and turned him loose and he did not do it and I pre- 1192 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS sume he encountered the same difficulty that I found. So it seems to me that the refunding is a matter very much to be de¬ sired and I offer this amendment not in any antagonism to the committee at all but in harmony with its declaration in favor of refunding the bonds, but this is more specific and directs what shall be done. Right preceding it in this very section we are con¬ sidering it declares that any new debt created, with the exceptions named therein, shall be wholly void and then puts in a proviso that the Governor may borrow $300,000 to meet deficiencies in the treasury. Then it says the legislature may provide for refunding the bonds. With that declaration just j)receding it that any addi¬ tional debt shall be wholly void and this declaration in the report of the Committee that the Legislature may have the power to re¬ fund, there seems to be a conflict, and I do not know what the New Yorks will say on that. This amendment cannot do any harm. It is not in violation of or in conflict with the report to make it more specific as this first paragraph of the amendment I offer does, and whenever a section is passed if there is any con¬ flict it can be easily accommodated to what has been done. Now is not this desirable. What 1 offer here is simply in aid of the proposition the gentleman make. MR. BULGER—Is there any provision in the present Consti¬ tution or any proposed provision in the new constitution that pre¬ vents the legislature from doing just what you purport to have done? MR. OATES—Yes, sir. If the gentleman had listened to me he would have heard me say that under the present constitution I spent several days in Wall Street trying to effect this thing and the moneyed men obtained an opinion from a distinguished law firm at the head of which was Mr. Hornblower that it could not be done under the Constitution, that any new debt would be wholly void, and it would be so considered, and they would not make any trade or exchange, so that the Legislature under the present Constitution is hampered. Now this Committee’s report proposes to authorize it by say¬ ing that the Legislature can make provision for the refunding of the bonded debt. This first section is simply in aid of that declara¬ tion, making it more definite and not at all inconsistent with it, and the Governor what to do in effecting this refunding. Now what is this practically? The new bonds proposed to be issued are to run for fifty years. Of course the date of their maturity would be after every member of this convention has passed over the river and gone to his grave. It would come up for a subse¬ quent generation to pay. A three and a half per cent—and if it is ascertained to be practicable to negotiate them at a lower rate, there is nothing to prevent the legislature from doing it. I first put it in not to exceed four, so as to allow them a fair latitude, but as it was thought by some that that would induce bondhold- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1193 ers to lobby and try to ^et 4 per cent and as I believe it practi¬ cable to refund them at 3 1-2 when they have a lon^ time to run, I by consent changed that to 3 1-2. I presume every gentleman here knows that it adds considerably to a bond to have a longer time to run. Bonds bearing the same rate of interest one issue to run for fifty years and another issue to run for twenty years, the longer term bonds are worth considerably more because it is idle capital that seeks investment in bonds and they don't want to have to reinvest early, and the investment that lasts longest, with equal security, and looking alone to the security of interest on that in¬ vestment and freedom from taxation. Now, I have shown there is nothing in this inconsistent with the report of the committee, but that it will really go in aid of it making more definite directions to the Legislature in making provisions for the exchange. There is no conflict whatever. Now, gentlemen, is it not desirable? You make the calcu¬ lation between the rate of interest paid at the rate it now bears and at 3 1-2 per cent, you will find there is a difference of $126,000 a year. Is not that worth saving to the people of Alabama? It is cutting down their taxes that much. It takes time to get ready for such a transaction as this, and when you are dealing with mil¬ lions movements have to he slow and cautious, and you have to l)e more particular in your provisions than in ordinary transactions. No, I have briefly stated the object and purpose of offering that section. I have offered my amendment severally because I did not know what would be the will of the Convention, and if the Convention should only wish to deal with part of these propo¬ sitions, they could easily do so. MR. HARRISON—I would like to ask the gentleman a ques¬ tion. MR. OATES—Certainly. MR, HARRISON—Have you any doubt as to the authority of the Legislature under the article as reported by the committee and here read to refund this debt? MR. OATES—Possibly they would have that right but the language which says that any debt shall be wholly void might ren¬ der it difficult. MR, HARRISON — Then your proposition is to go a step further, not only to authorize the Legislature, but to tell them how to do it? MR, OATES—That is it as to that section. I don't want to take up time needlessly, but I think I am prepared to answer any question that any gentleman want to put to me on that line. Then I have the further propositions: 1194 OFFICIAL PROCI-.LDINOS gee. 2.—That it shall he the further duty of said Legislature, at its first session after the ratification of this Constitution, to authorize the Governor. Auditor and Treasurer of the State, to obtain bv purchase, in the name of and for the use of the State Capitol, all of the square of land upon which the Capitol Building is situated south of said building, to Washington street, bounded west l)\' Hainliridge and east by L nion street; provided, said prop¬ erty can be purchased at reasonable prices, but if not in the opin¬ ion of the Board, then the same shall be condemned on i)roceed- ings, to be instituted by said Board in the name and in behalf of the State, and to be had according to the provisions of Article 1, Chapter 42. of the Code of 1896, which shall be applicable thereto. gee. 3.—That all the bonds in the first section hereinabove (provided for over and abo\e the $8,403,600 to be used in redemp¬ tion or exchange for that amount of outstanding bonds Class A, Class B and Class C, to-wit. $96,400. shall be .sold by said Board, consisting of the Governor, Auditor and Treasurer, after due notice given by publication in at least three daily newspapers, to the highest bidder, which sold bonds shall bear not more than 3 1-2 per cent, per annum, payable semi-annually, and which shall not be sold for less than their face value, and when so sold the pro¬ ceeds shall be covered into the Treasury, and shall be used by said Board to pay for the said lands on said square when purchased or condemned as aforesaid, and so much of the money arising from the sale of such bonds as may be necessary to permanently im¬ prove the Capitol Building and to pay for the private property on said square purchased or condemned as aforesaid may be used for such purposes.” Now, sir, some gentleman think, and I hope it is true, that there may be no necessity for this provision l)ecause they think that the treasury will be so full that there will be a surplus of probably $100,000 or more which could be used by the Legislature for these purposes. I think, that is a calculation which may fail. Nearly all calculations that are made with reference to the amount of income from the various sources are not always certain, they are frequently disappointing. I don’t care if gentlemen want to limit that with the proviso that such bonds shall not be sold, provided there be sufficient surplus money in the treasury. But. Mr. Presi¬ dent, let me inquire first whether the purposes to w'hich it is to be applied are necessary, because if not then of course the whole thing falls. Now, is it necessary and proper to enlarge and im¬ prove this capitol building? Everyone knows that this building which has stood for fifty years is not going to stand and answer the purposes of a capitol unaided very much longer, and if we consult other States that have recently built State houses, we will find that it will cost from $700,000 to $1,000,000 to build a suitable one. Anyone who will inspect this old building carefully, any architect will tell you that, that it must be renovated and improved CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1195 greatly or soon have to be substituted by a new one. Now, can it be made a good capitol, without going to that vast expense? I think so. Put a new roof on the building of first class material, and extend the two front wings, say forty feet north and south. Any gentleman who has an eye for architecture, or architectural beauty and symmetry, who will look from below the steps, will see it would be vastly improved by such extension, because the building is too tall for its length north and south, and such an ex¬ tension would add greatly to its appearance, and such an extensive as that on a much larger scale was made by the Congress of the United States to our great capitol up there. The only criticism on that was that it extended so far that viewed from down the street or at a distance it is too low at the middle for its great length, but this would not. Forty feet would enlarge the two halls and would enable the galleries to be such as our beautiful ladies and gentlemen who visit the hall would desire and make them comfortable. Until lately there was nothing but benches around there, the rudest kind of so-called accomodation. Chairs are circled around there. There are nothing but hard chairs in a circle around there now and it is not at all suitable to the great State of Alabama. But nice galleries will be made and larger halls and more ample accommodations for all the State officers. Any one who will look at the Auditor’s office will see that great and growing office is too small in room, it should have a larger room added. The Governor’s office is confined in a little 12x14 room which very poorly commends itself to strangers to see the Governor penned up in that little space. He should have a large room 30x40 feet square with proper furniture, so that when the stranger enters the chamber of the Governor, he will be fa¬ vorably impressed and think that we are an appreciative people. Then sir, what will it do? These improvements can be made in this building at an expense of from $30,000 to $40,000, and what will it result in? It will give us a good capitol here for thirty years to come. Is that not a measure of economy rather than to wait a few years until we have to build a new one? I think it is. Who wants this old capitol, full of historic memories, to be thrown aside and converted into waste and destroyed? Why, sir, it so happened that this is the Cradle of the Confederacy. Here as¬ sembled the first Confederate Congress in the Senate Chamber, I then, quite a young man, came to see that sight. From that gallery I saw assembled Toombs, Cobbs and that wonderful deformity in physical manhood, but giant in intellect, Alexander H. Stephens, and numbers of other able men from the Empire State at our door. From South Carolina and others of their ablest men. Here too, Alabama had very able men as her representatives in that Con¬ gress. Judge John L. Shorter from East Alabama, and able men from all parts of the State, among whom I believe- 1196 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The time oi the i^entleman from mont- gomery has expired. MR. OATES—I would thank the Convention to allow me a little more time to finish what I ha\e to s*i\, I am not going to repeat, and I am not going to consume any unnecessary time. MR. HEFLIN (Randolph) — 1 move that the gentlemaiFs time be extended ten minutes. MR. BULGER—I move to amend the motion that the time be extended until he concludes his remarks. MR. HEFLIN—I accept the amendment. The motion of the gentleman from Randolph as amended I)v the gentleman from Tallapoosa was adopted by the Convention. MR. OATES—I thank you gentlenun of the Convention for this indulgence, I will endeaVor not to tax your patience but get through as quickly as I can with this explanation. I will not g(j further in the production of names, in calling the attention of the delegates to them, more than to say that among Alabama s dele¬ gation there, I believe, but one today survives, the distinguished philanthropist and orator, Jabez L. M. Curry—he is a specimen of the ability that represented Alabama in that Congress. Ten¬ nessee and all the other Southern States were there represented. Now, whether any gentleman thinks that the cause in which they assembled was right or wrong, is not the question, it began one of the greatest events in the history of the world, that ever occur¬ red, and the place in which such a thing occurred as time rolls on is revered and respected and people want to see it. Without going any further, or speaking of the inauguration of the first President of the Confederacy at this Ca])itol and other incidents that here transpired, is there any gentleman who wants to throw aside this old Capitol Building when it is still ])racticable to im¬ prove it, renovate it, extend it and make a splendid and handsome Capitol for the State. The estimate for the ground is that it can be purchased for $50,000 or possibly $56,000 is the limit—$40,000 for the improvement of the Capitol. Gentlemen, do you not feel a sufficient pride in the Capitol of your State to spend this much for it? Then when that is done, and when the Legislature finds a surplus in the treasury as it is urged it will, then expend some of that surplus in erecting a mansion for your Governor on the southeast corner, and our good ladies who sought in the last Leg¬ islature an appropriation of $2,500 for their White House can he put on some suitable place in this square for the deposit of the archives of the Confederacy, they could have a corner and convert it into a park which would be inviting to all the people. W hen strangers visit us, it would tend to elevate their opinion of the people of Alabama when it is seen them that we care so much for our Capitol and its l^eautiful grounds around it. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1197 There is not a Capitol of any State in the Union more beautifully situated "than this, then why allow a part of the square upon which it stands, and right near its doors, to be stables and old shacks destroying and greatly impairing its beauty? Now, gen¬ tlemen, if there is any other way of doing this thing more ac¬ ceptable, why all right, do it. What I desire is that it shall be ac¬ complished. I have no personal interest in it except as a citizen of Alabama. I have no personal interest in the refunding of the bonds except as a citizen of Alabama, and as such probably at a sacrifice, because it is my fortune to own some bonds which I would rather have at 5 per cent, than 3 1-2 per cent., but I think it my duty to have the bonds refunded and save the difference to the people of Alabama. Gentlemen, can you do it in a better way? I don’t know any. There is no disrespect to anyone in it, to the Legislature, it is a direction, a plan which would be per¬ fectly acceptable, and if you think it ought to have any condi¬ tions attached to it, put them to it. I have discharged my duty. By an explanation of this proposition, I have done my duty in bringing it before you, if you see proper to vote them down, let them go by the board, that is not my business and it does not affect me. In the discharge of what I conceive to be a duty I bring these things before you, the representatives of the sov¬ ereign people of Alabama, for that is what you are, not an Execu¬ tive Department, not a Judicial Department, but all combined. It is the people of the State speaks through this body, and if you see and know that a thing would be beneficial to the whole peo¬ ple of the State, why hesitate or haggle about it or the way in which it shall be done? It is not disrespect to the Legislature or anybody else, and if it is practicable, and you believe the people will justify you in adopting it, why not do it? I could add very much more, but I will not further trespass on your time which you have so generously given to me. MR. CUNNINGHAM—May I ask the gentleman a question? PRESIDENT PRO TEM. PETTUS — Will the gentleman permit a question? MR. OATES—Certainly. MR. CUNNINGHAM—It is said, and correctly said, as I understand, that the value of a bond is determined by the rate of interest and the time it has to run. MR. OATES—Correct. MR. CUNNINGHAM—The effect of this amendment would be, therefore, to fix the value of the bonds, refunding the debt of the State of Alabama six years in advance of their maturity? MR. OATES—Yes, sir. • _ MR. CUNNINGHAM—Inasmuch as this would be in the organic law of the State, now isn’t it possible that at the end of 1198 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS five years, the financial condition of the country may have changf- ed in such a way as to increase the interest earning: power of money and thereby cripple the State in refunding: the debt at the par value at the rate of 3 1-2 per cent, interest? That is one side. Again, might not the earning capacity of money decrease to such an extent that the debt could be refunded at less than 3 1-2 per cent, and finally would not this provision in the Constitution of the State at this time have the effect of fixing the value of the present bonds of the State of Alabama, inasmuch as it provides a definite manner in which they are to be refunded? In other words, would it not naturally increase the value of the present bonds of the State at the present time? MR. OATES—I will state in reply to the question that it might have some slight effect upon them, but the premium now on these bonds bearing 5 per cent, is 10; they sell at 110. I don’t know the fluctuations, it might have some little effect, but if you will observe the language of the amendment I offer, it is “not ex¬ ceeding 3 1-2 per cent.,” and I believe it will always be practic¬ able unless some misfortune overcomes this country, not now apprehended, that 50-year bonds can easily be floated at 3 1-2 per cent. If at the time the Legislature acts, when they come to pass the act contemplated, they find that the bonds can be floated and the debt refunded at a less rate of interest, this does not hamper them—it says “not exceeding,” MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Mr. President and delegates to the Convention: The delegate from Montgomery who has just addressed you is always entertaining and instructive, and we are apt to be carried with the current of his words and lose sight of the pertinancy of what he says upon the issue before us. If any delegate has been impressed here by his remarks that the State of Alabama would lose $123,000 to be gained by refunding of the debt unless his plan was adopted, you have simply been led away by the words he was using, and not by the force and effect that should be given to them. If any delegate here has been impress¬ ed with the idea that the Capitol building, the grounds, cannot be selected except by the adoption of the amendment, I think you have followed the force and effect of his argument with little purpose. Not one proposition contained in that amendment— except that which refers to the selection of the grounds and the appropriation for the improvement of the Capitol—but what has been provided for in the section as prepared by the Committee on Taxation. We discussed thoroughly all these phases of the question that could possibly arise. We have used the language which has stood the test of the courts and satisfied the capitalists who were to loan the money. Section 3 reads as follows: Sec. 3.—After the ratification of this Constitution, no new debt shall be created against, or incurred by this State, or its au¬ thority, except to repel invasion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1199 That was a provision that was in the old Constitution, and the statement which has been made to you that there was dif¬ ficulty in negotiating bonds since the last Convention assem¬ bled and the Constitution was adopted arose in this way: The debt was funded under the provision that we have here, which existed prior to 1875, but when they attempted to issue new bonds in addition to funding the debt, they were confronted with the provision that no new debt could be created, and that is the rea¬ son Mr. Hornblower gave his opinion that the debt would not be binding upon the State. Not that there can be any objection raised to the authority of the Legislature to issue bonds to fund the present indebtedness of the State. The section provides fur¬ ther at the close that the section shall not be so construed as to prevent the issuance of bonds for the purpose of refunding the State’s existing indebtedness.” There is ample provision and when the gentleman from Montgomery w’as interrogated on that point he was compelled to admit that ample provision was made. Now, so far as issuing bonds to purchase these lands or to irn- prove the Capitol building, according to his own argument, it is demonstrated that it is unnecessary, for by refunding the bonds, he says we will save $123,000, and he says the expenses are esti¬ mated at $97,000. Why, then, in view of that fact, issue bonds in addition to funding the present indebtedness of the State? Is¬ sue bonds with the admitted fact that by the funding of the debt more than is necessary will be placed in the treasury to enable you to improve your Capitol and purchase the grounds. What advantage is to be gained by this legislation? Isn t it strictly legislation to go on and provide for the improvement of the Cap¬ itol, for the purchase of property? Why not trust these things to the Legislature, where they properly belong, instead of bring¬ ing it in here as a part of the organic law of the State? Delegates to the Convention, so far as fixing by an ordinance, or inserting in here at a premium not greater than 4 per cent, it is an invitation to capitalists— MR. OATES—That is 3 1-2 per cent, MR. COLEMAN—The same objection prevails against it at 3 1-2 per cent, as at 4 per cent. If it is wrong at 4 per cent, it is wrong at 3 1-2 per cent. It might be 3 1-4 per cent. Can we not trust the Legislature and the Governor, who have been trusted always with the power of refunding the debts and negotiating the bonds of the State on the best terms possible? That is all that the report of the Tax Committee does. It leaves it with the Gov¬ ernor and the Legislature to issue bonds when they are needed, not bond the people of Alabama by an organic provision five or six years in advance of the time necessary to fund this debt, I believe if the delegates will closely consider Section 3, they will find every provision necessary for the adjustment of the. State, s indebtedness, and there is a provision there that the State shall 1200 Ol'l'ICIAI. PKOCOJ-DlXl^S incur no new debt, and of course would not be authorized to issue any other bonds except in settlement of the debt wliich already prevails. MR. ASHCRAFT—I would like to ask a question, it has been discussed by several, whether or not under the provision as i^ro- posed by the committee, the Le^^islature has the constitutional authority to make a purchase of the land adjoining* the Capitol grounds? I would like ver}^ much for you to answer the i)roposi- tion, there are several gentlemen would like to hear. MR. COLl^MAN—1 have two answers to make to that. Un¬ der the j^eneral provision where the Ivec^islature is not prohibited, it has am])le power, but, Mr. President and "-entlemen of the Con¬ vention. if such a ])rovision as that is deemed necessary, let it be introduced in the ])roper place and not upon the rei)ort of the Committee on 'faxation. An independent section authorizing the Legislature to purchase the land or the property, if deemed nec¬ essary, could be introduced I)y an inde])cndent separate section and I cannot see if the Leg'islature can a])j)ropriate money as was done under my friend's administration (Mr. Oates) for the im¬ provement of the Capitol, why the Leg^islature has not the satne j)ower now that it had then. MR. JONES (Wilcox)—Mr. President, there is no member upon the floor of this House for whom I have as much esteem as I have for the distinguished gentleman who has offered this amendment. Refore I had reached by majority I met with him in the Vh’r^inia army. To|:^ether we followed the fortunes of the Southern army in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, and in Tennessee and afterwards in Vir^^inia, and Mr. President, it needed man¬ hood to ^o through what he did, and I never saw a finer si)ecimen of manh(K)d than w'as to be seen in him, in his youth. He went through those trying days, Mr. President, in a manner that won my admiration and respect, and I have held it for him ever since. I have fa\'ored him in every aspiration he has had, and when he desired to l)e Ih'esident of this CA)nvention, 1 wrote him certainly I should vote for him, and I would have done so, if I had l)een the only man on the floor of the House who voted for him for President of this Convention. lUit, Mr. President, while that is true, I beg leave to differ with him. We all have our oi)inions about the measures that come before this House. It has been stated that men are inde- ])endent in their thoughts on this floor. That is to be commend¬ ed, and although I have respect for the gentleman’s opinion, and although I have listened to him with great interest in the argu¬ ment that he made, I have not changed my opinion one particle that this amendment should not be incorporated into the Consti¬ tution of the State. C ’() N S 'r I 'I' l: T ION A1. CO N V I*. N ' 1 ' TO N, 190 1 1201 Wliat are we here for? Are we here to make another l)ook like this? (Molding’ up the Code.) Do we want a Constitution as large as the ci\il code of AIal)ania? Are we to fi.x it so we will ha\e one hook with the Constitution of the State in it, an- otlier with the civil laws of the State and another hook with the |)enal laws of the State? Leave to the Legislature of the State what they can do legitimately, d'hat is what we ought to do. d hat is what we are here for. That is what the ])eople ot Alal)ama expect of ns, Mr. President. 1 went home last Saturday was a week ago. and on the train I heard some gentlemen of intelligence, and there are many of intelligence that are not in this body, discussing the Constitu¬ tional Convention, and they said this: “Why. those solons at MontgoiTierv have missed it; tliey seem to think that thev are the Legislature of the State. When will they get through? \Vhv. they won’t get through until the fall of the year.” They did not know that I was a delegate, and Mr. President, I didn’t tell them that I was a delegate. I tell you that if I did not care anything about the matter, except from a selfish standpoint, I woukl not he arlvocating meas¬ ures that the Legislature can take charge of. It is hot. This weather is oppressive. The IvCgislature will meet here in the Winter. We are nearly all of us prostrated with the work in com¬ mittees. A year or so ago I was in New York, where there was a gentleman on the street car who said during one of those hot days, “why it is almost as hot in New York as it is in Hades,’’ and he turned and saw a lady and apologized to her he said, “I did not knov'' you were on the car, I beg your [lardon.’’ She said, “Sir. YOU owe me no apology, except you put in ‘almost’; it is just as hot a. Hades now in New York!’’ Mr. President, from a .selfish standpoint, even if I cared noth¬ ing about the expense to the State of Alabama, I would say let the Legislature do the work that they can do. and let us do the work that the people expect us to do. Now. to take up this iiroposition, what are we asked to do? We are asked to pass an amendment, telling the Legisla¬ ture what to do. Some New York attorney gave it as his opinion that the Constitution was not full enough on that. Now, Mr. President, take this section, and it says at the conclusion, con¬ trolling that which precedes it, “provided that this section .shall not be so construed as to prevent the issuance of bonds for re¬ funding the State’s existing indebtedness.’’ What else do vou want ? MR. OATES—May I interrupt my friend? MR. JONES—Yes, sir. 1202 OFFICIAL PKOCEE DIN G S MR. OATES—That language referred to the process that was going on, and not completed, at the time that the Constitu¬ tion of 1875 was made, the result of the Houston settlement. MR. JONES—Yes, I understand that. MR. OxATES—Let me interrupt you a little more, please. It had gone on. and in my administration it had not l)een completed. Certain parties were holding back their lx)nds and demanding the interest. I drafted a statute of limitations and got the Legis¬ lature to pass it in 1894-5. which provided that any of tluse Ixmds which were not presented for exchange by the first day of lulv, 1896. should be forever barred, and that is the only way that was ever completed, to which the Constitution refers there. Hut in the opinion of Hornblower and others, the prior language having referred to a former question against the creation of any new debt, rendered it very hazardous, and they thought they would not ad¬ vise the taking of new bonds, because it might be an increase of debts which were prohibited in the same section of the Constitu¬ tion. MR. JONES—Y’es, but the latter part of that section con¬ trols all that goes before, and it is to be incorporated into this section of the Constitution. Now, so far as the State Capitol is concerned, why cannot the Legislature improve the Capitol? All of us have State pride, and would like to see our State Capitol compare with anv' Capitol in this broad land, and if we had the means I would say do it. Now there is another thing if you notice in the old Constitution. You will see that the Governor is authorized to negotiate temporary loans, never to exceed $100,000. What does the Committee re¬ port here? The report of the Committee says not to exceed $300.- 000. There is a provision, an additional one, and it is not neces¬ sary that we should say anything to the Legislature in reference to purchasing this property for the State of Alabama. Mr. President, while I merely give it as my opinion, we came here for a special purpose. There may be one man in this Con¬ vention of ordinary sense, and he can sit down in his room and offer amendments to articles that are brought in here, and keep this Convention in session for a month’s time. Any man can do that where it is entirely unnecessary, and where the Legislature can do the work that w'e are attempting to do unnecessarilv. MR. deGRAEFENHEID I move that the amendment of the gentleman from Montgomery be laid upon the table. Upon a vote being taken, a division was called for, and by a vote of 76 ayes to 24 noes the motion to table carried. MR. WATTS—I have an amendment. The amendment was read as follows: Cf )\STITUT{( )XAf, CONVKXTIOX. 1901 1203 Anieiid Sectif)n 3 of '^J'axation Report by adding at the end of said section the words: Provided the Oeneral Assembly may increase the State debt not exceedin^r $200,000 for the improve¬ ment of the Caj)itol, and adding to its f^rounds. AIK. W A 1 I S I did not favor the amendment offered l)y my distinguished friuid from Montgomery, l^ecanse it involved two or three ditt<‘rent propositions, the one as t(^ the issue of I)onds l)e- ing clearly a matter within the discretion of the Legislature, and ou^dn not to be incorporated into the Constitution. The other feature of this amendment in the sha])e in which it was offered, was perhajis open to the same objection, but 1 favor the purchase by the State of Alabama of the balance of the square upon which the C a])itol >tands, and I have off(‘red this amendment to Section 3 for the purpose of enablin^^ the Le^n'slature to find the means, if necessary, to ])urchase the ^roiuuls and to ini])ro\'e this Capitol building^, if in their discretion, after a consideration of the matter, they should deem it wise to do so. There can be no question about the tact, 1 take it, with .Alabamians, that the building which represents their Capitol, and in which the business of the State is carried on. should at least be kept in repair, and should present a decent appearance to visitors and should l)e a credit to the State. 1 a^ree fully with my distinguished colleague from Montgomery that tiure should lx* ad to this building; that there should be repairs macle to it, and to do that it may not be necessary to issue an\' bonds, d'o accomplish it. however, it may be necessary lo issue bonds. This section as rei)orted by the Committee on d'axation inhibits an increase of the State debt for any purpose, except th(' purposes stated in it, and. therefore, if the Legisla¬ ture in its wisdom should ever determine to improve this Capitol, and there was not sufficient money in the State Treasury to do it. they would be unable to do it, and the Capitol building would be left without improvement for want of power on the ])art of the Ccneral Assembly to provide the means to carry out the im¬ provement. I have been in many of the Capitols of the States of this American Union, and 1 have looked upon the Capitol build¬ ings which those States have erected, and I believe, with the single exception of Rhode Island, there is not a single one of them that does not excel in beauty and in elegance the Capitol of the great State of Alabama. I believe, Mr. President, that it is the duty of the Legislature to acquire the balance of this square. I think that these houses to the south here should be removed. I think that that land should be gathered into the Capitol grounds and beautified, and made a part of those grounds. Whatever the ultimate object may be, to erect a Governor s mansion, or what other uses it should be put to, it at least should be owned by the State. Some suggestion has been made, or hinted at, that this would simply aid the city of Montgomery to have beautiful grounds. 1204 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS That sort of thought should not enter the minds of delegates when they cast they eyes back a few years and remember that the city of Montgomery, as a free gift, presented to the State of Alabama the northern side of these grounds without one dollar of compensation. Does it stand then in good taste to be saying that the purchase of the south side of these grounds to complete the whole, and make it a thing of beauty, should not be done l)e- cause forsooth it may add some to the l)eauty of Montgomery. Alabamians should be proud of their Capital City. It is redolent with history. As my distinguished friend says, upon these grounds and in this city, a young nation was l)orn. It is true it was short lived, but ever since that nation was born, the bravery and he¬ roism of its soldiers have been the wonder of the world. Here, Mr. President, the first Confederate Congress was established. Here Mr. Davis was inaugurated President of the Confederate States, and upon these grounds to the north, the fair, the patriotic and the untiring women of Alabama have erected a magnificent monument which shall for all time bear testimony to the valor of those soldiers who fought for principle, for home, for country and for fireside. Shall we have less ambition, shall we have less pride in our Capitol City, and have less pride in our capitol grounds than our women? Another thing, 3 'OU have been over your Capitol Cit\^ since you have been here, and you see how well it is paved. You see what a magnificent system of sewerage we have. You see what water Ave have. You ought to encourage, and 3 'ou ought to be proud of your Capital City. Why, gentle¬ men, it is the best ])aved, the cleanest and the l)est policed city in our beautiful Southland. I think this amendment should be adopted so that wdien the Legislature meets, whether it l)e next year, or four years from now, or two years, and they come to consider this question of beautifying the Capitol grounds, and improving this Capitol they should not be hampered or met with the cry of a depleted or an empty treasury. Another part of this report, Mr. President, provides that the tax rate should be reduced from seventy-five to sixty-five cents on the hundred dollars. If that part of the report should be adopt¬ ed, we will find that there will perhaps be no funds in the treasury for the improvement of the Capitol. Will we not then bind dowm the Legislature, by saying their hands shall be tied, and that they shall not have the power to provide for the improve¬ ment of this building? They may not exercise the ])ovver of is¬ suing these two hundred thousand dollars of bonds, the}' may never have occasion to do so. Alabama may prosper in the fu¬ ture as she has prospered in the past. Her revenues may increase. Her treasury may be full, and they may be able to appropriate out of the treasury the funds necessary for the purposes intend¬ ed, but if the time should come, Mr. President, Avhen such is not the case, let us so fix this Constitution that the Legislature CONSTITUTIONAL CONVLXTION, 1901 1205 shall have the power of appropriating or borrowing the money for the improvement of the State Capitol and its grounds. MR. A\ EATHKRLY—I do not wish to appear discourteous to the gentleman who has offered the amendment in what 1 am about to propose, nor do J intend to say that 1 lack sympathy for the cause which he advocates, but solely for the purpose of dointr whatever J can to help to confine this convention to its real work, 1 move to lav the delegate’s amendment on the tal)le. MR. WATTS—Upon that I call for the ayes and noes. The Chair declared that the call was not sustained, and upon a vote l)eing taken the motion to table ])revailed. MR. BR()WNlv—1 move the ])revious (juestion on the adop¬ tion of Sectic/u 3, 'The main Cjuestion was ordered, and upcm a further vote being taken the Section was adopted. The President resumed the Chair. d'Hli PRESIDENT—The Clerk will read the next Section. Section 4 was read as follows: Sec. 4. The Ceneral Assembly shall not have the power to levy, in anv one year, a greater rate of taxation than sixty-five one-hundredths of 1 per centum on the value of the taxable prop- ert}” within this State. MR. BROWNE—With reference to that Section I desire to say that the Committee on Taxation has made a very thorough and very careful investigation into the condition of the finances of the State. In the estimate that I presented before this Con¬ vention when the Article was first taken u]), I think that I clearly showed that we could safely reduce the rate of taxation from 75 to 65 cents upon the $100, to take effect \\ithin the next fiscal year, and that we Avould then have a surplus of receipts over ex¬ penditures. I know that some gentlemen have criticised those figures, but let us see whether or not they can be justly criticised. The levy for the next fiscal year has already been made by the Legislature. The expenditures for the next fiscal year are al- readv fixed and cannot l>e increased or decreased. Then, all that i^ necessarv to Ik^ done, is to see what amount ot receipts we will have for the next fiscal vear, basing the recci])ts upon the same property valuation that we had for the last fiscal year. Certainly no gentleman upon the floor of this Convention will tor one mom¬ ent contend that the tax valuation of property for this year will be less than it was last year. Taking the same valuation that we had for last year, adding to the receipts of next year the clean surplus of $59,000 of receipts for this fiscal year over disburse^ 1206 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ments, then taking $147,000 of extraordinary appropriations for this fiscal year, which have been made and cannot be made for next year, adding to that $71,000 that was expended in the reduc¬ tion of the deficit this year that will not and cannot be expended for next year and we have about the sum of $280,000, which will be the difference between the receipts and disbursements for the fiscal year ending October 1, 1902. Take from that one mill, which nets the State $247,000, and any one that understands figures will readily see that this tax rate can be lowered for the next fiscal year. I then went further in the statement and said we could safely estimate the increase of taxable values for the next fiscal year, over the last, at $8,000,000, the amount of the increase of this year over last. But gentlemen who oppose this reduction said it will not amount to that, and I wrote a letter to every Probate Judge in the State of Alabama and I asked him two questions: what was the taxable value of the property in your county for the last year, and what is the taxable value for this year? I have had re¬ plies from thirty-four Probate Judges, and they show an increase of $8,200,000, and we still have thirty-two Probate Judges to hear from. '1 hat will net the State, in addition to the surplus, forty odd thousand dollars; then the increase from license taxes esti¬ mated at $20,000, would make an increase of $60,000, even if we should reduce the tax. Now another estimate in those figures of the other day, and some gentlemen don’t like estimates, I estimated that the receipts of this fiscal year at the actual amount of the receipts received into the State Treasury as shown in the Auditor's Office, up to June 18. I then estimated the receipts from the 18th to Septem- l)er 30th, at the same ratio of increase as was the ratio of increase up to June 18th of last year, which gave me $10,000. Gentlemen said that would not do. I went into the Auditor's Office this morning and I asked him two questions: what were your receipts last year from June 18th, until and inclusive of June 27th, nine days, and I got the figures. What have they been this year up to the close of your office last night? I got the figures, and I had the Chief Clerk in the Auditor's Office to make the calcula¬ tion, and I found $6,500 in excess of last year for nine days, and I only claimed $10,000 for the time between June 18th and Sep¬ tember 30th. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—I would like to ask a question. I do not do it in a spirit of antagonism, but to hear you discuss it. MR. BROWNE—I am glad to accommodate the gentleman. MR. SAMFORD—We are on the eve of refunding the State debt. What is your idea about the reduction of the tax limit and its effect upon that proposition? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1207 MR. BROWNE—I will state that the matter has been very carefully considered by the Committee, and that the Committee a^ree that it will not have any deliterious effect upon the refund¬ ing of the State debt. Now, I think these figures clearly show that we could reduce this tax rate for the next year. The Committee does not so re¬ commend, howexer. 'J'he last (leneral Assembly has made a levy at seventy-five; tliat is at fifty-five for general ])ur])Oses, and one extra mill for soldiers and one extra mill for ediicaticinal purposes. Now that levy havin<:( l)een made, this i>rovision to reduce is “the General Assembly shall not have the ])ower to levy, after the rati¬ fication of this Constitution.” \\ c do not propose to interfere with the levy already made, so we calculate the recei])ts for the comin< 4 ' fiscal year, by taking the amount of the revenue tor the last fiscal year, and adding to it the amount of tax derived at fifty-five for ^(eneral ])urposes, upon the extra ei^*ht million valua¬ tion, althoiyt^h we have ei^ht million two hundrul thousand from thirty-two counties and it will be at least twelve millions, and we add to it an increase of only twenty thousand dollars from license taxes, when it will l)e over fifty in all ])rol)al)ility ; then we <^o over into next year with a surplus of fifty-nine thousand dol¬ lars, in addition to the cash balance in the treasury, over which there has eternally l)een so much dispute, when there ou^ht never to have been ainx One man will call it a surjdus and another will sav it is not a suirplus. Lose sight of surplus altogether. AVhen a man has got a hundred dollars in his pocket, with nothing against it, and wants to buy a pair of shoes, he does not sit down and figure whether or not that is a surplus. The State of Ala¬ bama on the first day of October had six hundred and twenty thousand dollars—it was more than that, but against part of it there were outstanding warrants—but it had in the treasury on the 1st of last October, six hundred and twenty thousaml dollars, against which there were no outstanding warrants but, there were chargable against that. 1)ookkeeping liabilities of something over seven hundred thousand dollars. Those liabilities were not due. They were payable in October, November and ]:)ecember following. If the State had gone out of liusiness on the first of October, and not collected its taxes for October, November and December, not only those lialulities would have had to have been paid out oi that cash balance, l)ut the nine million of l)onds would •have had to have been paid out of that pitiful six hundred and twentv thousand dollars, but those liabilities have since been paid, and we got in practically enough receipts from taxes and licenses in October and November and December to iiay those lial)ilities as they fell due without touching the six hundred and twenty thou¬ sand, and instead of only six hundred and twenty we now have over eight hundred thousand dollars and all July interest paid. 1208 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Now that seven hundred thousand that was paid in October, November and December, that was charged against that balance in the treasury, is now charged against the receipts of this year, and at the end of this year, they will then go and charge October, November and December liabilities of the next fiscal year against this fiscal year, showing a charge against the receipts of this year of fourteen hundred thousand dollars when it only ought to l)e seven hundred thousand. Be that as it may, on the first day of October, 1902— The hour of adjournment having arrived, leaves of absence were granted Mr. Mulkey for Saturday and Monday, and Mr. Norwood for this afternoon and Saturday, and thereupon the Convention adjourned until 3 o’clock p. m. AFTERNOON SESSION. The Convention reconvened at 3 o’clock, p. m., and upon the call of the roll one hundred and nineteen delegates responded to their names. Leaves of absence were granted as follows: Mr. Freeman for Saturday, Monday and Tuesday; Mr. Haley for Saturday and Monday; Mr. Jones of Montgomery, for this afternoon; Mr. Pearce until Wednesday afternoon; Mr. Cunning¬ ham of Jefferson, for tomorrow; Mr. Graham (Talladega), Sat¬ urday, Monday and Tuesday; Mr. Foshee, for Saturday. MR. BROWNE—When the Convention adjourned at noon, I had just started to show the condition of the treasury on the first day of October, 1902, or upon the last day of September, at the close of that fiscal year. We will then have in the treasury, an excess, of receipts for the present fiscal year over disbursements of fifty-nine thousand dollars; we will have the amount of two hundred and eighteen thousand dollars, which is the amount of extraordinary appropriations of this year, that will not be ex¬ pended out of the receipts next year; we will have, in addition, an increase from the increase in taxable values of at least fifty thousand dollars; we will have an increase of at least twenty thousand dollars from license taxes, making three hundred and forty-seven thousand dollars excess of receipts over disbursements. That will be an actual surplus and a bookkeeping* surplus as well, against which there will be chargable no liabilities whatever. MR. SAMFORD (Pike)—Will the gentleman pardon me? That two hundred and eighteen thousand dollars that you speak of, what fund is that? MR. BROWNE—Seventy-one thousand dollars deficit paid off by the treasury, this year, that will not be to pay next year; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1209 thirty-two thousand dollars extra appropriation for the girls' school building; forty thousand dollars money i)aid out of the treasury, refunded, illegal license tax, fifty thousand dollars for the expenses of this Constitutional Convention, twenty-five th(ju- sand dollars, one half of the expense of a session of the legisla¬ ture, all of that being chargable to this year. The expenses of a session of the legislature are charged against one year, the leg¬ islature meeting in November, and the Avhole expense of tlie ses¬ sion is chargable against one year. Those figures foot up two hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. Now they will have a session of the legislature next vear, but only twenty-five thousand dollars of it will be chargable against the receipts for next year; really, none of it will l)e, l)e- cause it will go into the next succeeding fiscal year. 'That gives you three hundred and forty-seven thousand dollars, and there is no amount of figuring that can get around that actual surplus, neither can it be gotten around that it is a bookkeeping surplus. You cannot keep books, so as to charge an 3 'thing against that three hundred and forty-seven thousand dollars. In addition there is, I won’t call it a surplus, some people object to that, but in ad¬ dition to that there will be a cash balance in the treasur\^ of some six hundred and fifty, to six hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars. MR. OATES—When? MR. BROWNE—On the first day of October. 1902. We are getting down to the time that the Committee proi)oses this tax reduction. That actual cash balance was six hundred and twenty thousand dollars on the first day of this fiscal year. Now on the first day of the next fiscal year, we will have that six hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars, with nothing chargable against it—I mean nothing pa\^able out of it. There will be liabilities chargable against it, but thev will be payable in the future, and if the State continues in business, that money will not be touch¬ ed. There will be in the treasury of the State of Alabama on the first day of October, 1902, at least 1,047,000, of which three hun¬ dred and forty-seven thousand dollars will be an actual surplus, and to all inte^its and purposes the other seven hundred thousand is a surplus. It is a cash balance. If the State goes on in busi¬ ness, it will collect during next Octol:>er, November and December a great deal more than is sufficient to pay the liabilities that will be on the books, chargeable against that cash balance. Then it is proposed to allow the next General Asseml)ly to levy only a six and one-half mill rate, one mill of which is to be for" the public schools as now, one mill for the soldiers, and four and a half for general purposes. Now the lessened receipts, if the taxable values of property remains as it is now, would only be $247,000, but the taxable values we see have increased this 1210 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS year over last year ten to twelve millions of dollars, so the les¬ sened net receipts on account of the one mill would be in the neighborhood of |260,000. It, therefore, appears that the State of Alabama can easily, in the first place go to this reduction of one mill within the next fiscal year. It will have a real surplus of about 150,000 then, but at the end of the next fiscal year, there will be a real surplus of about $347,000, and you cannot figure it any lower and in addition to that the cash balance. Now we have not yet taken into consideration that it is agreed all around that the bonded indebtedness of the State of Alabama can be refunded at a saving of not less than $120,000 a year. There is no doubt upon that question. There are gentlemen upon this floor who know almost with an absolute certainty where Ala¬ bama’s bonded indebtedness can now be refunded at less than three and one-half per cent. So we might with safet}^ MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Isn’t that estimate that it can be placed at 3 1-2 per cent, based largely upon the fact we now have a tax rate of seventy-five and not on the prospect of a re¬ duction? MR. BROWNE—No sir, it is not; it is simply based upon good sound business principles. There is not a dealer in bonds in the United States who would not be absolutely satisfied with these figures, and willing to take these bonds at the lowest pos¬ sible rate. Mr. President, I have just had a little experience in assisting to float some bonds for the city of Talladega, and we got the bonds of that city floated, though it is true we had to pay a higher rate of interest, but the city had defaulted for seven years upon its interest and only paid up one-half of the interest, and if we had had any such showing as this, that little town could have floated her bonds at 3 1-2. Bond holders do not require that heavy rates of taxation be assessed against the people before they will take the bonds. All that is necessary is to show them that there are sufficient assets to pay the interest upon the bonded in¬ debtedness. How much money pray, will it take to pay the in¬ terest at 3 1-4 or 3 1-2 per cent., on $9,000,0(X)? A little over $300,- 000, and this year the State of Alabama collects in taxes and li¬ censes over $2,800,000. Now I would like to see the bondholder that would be afraid to risk the State of Alabama paying out of that the sum of $300,000. There is $120,000 interest that can be saved in refunding that bonded indebtedness that we do not take into consideration at all. Mr. President, gentlemen who oppose this reduction, probably have not thought or remembered, or probably never knew, that we are building in the State of Alabama today cotton factories at the rate of $9,000,000 a year. Those cotton factories, as a rule, are small factories, with a capital of from $100,000 to $150,000, and I have not known any of them to run three years without CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKXTION, 1901 1211 doubling- the capital and doubling the capacity. If the rate of buikling cotton factories keeps up as it has since the passage of the law of 1897, which exempted them from taxation for ten years, until that exemption expires in 1907, we will, in 1907, l)e collect¬ ing taxes at a low estimate upon $75,000,000 invested in cotton factories. But gentlemen may say that we have no right to ex- IR'Ct that it ".ill be kept up. i’ossibiy not. If tliev do not keep it U]), in 1907 we will be collecting taxes upon at least $40,000,000 of cotton factories without building any more. It will probably be urged by those who oppose this reduc¬ tion, that we cannot count on any increased values in the future. When this report was made, the argument was made against it that we had no right to expect any increase this year over last. I thought then that any man in Alabama wlio did not know that there would be an increase of taxable values this year over last, certainlv had his eyes shut all the while. The reiiorts of the Pro¬ bate Judges show that the increase this year will be at least $12,- 000,000. Now, panics have always come in the past, in eras of ten years. Sometimes they have come as close together as eight years, but never any closer. Four years ago was the period of the greatest depression of property values in Alabama, since the panic, or since the boom. There were only $241,000,000 of tax¬ able values in Alabama four years ago. They have, in four years, steadily increased, until last year they were $260,000,000, and they will be’ $278,000,000 this year. Now gentlemen who are so much afraid that the credit of the State of Alabama will be hurt, must take this into consideration that we have got at least four vears more of prosperity during which time- MR. OATES — Does the gentleman state that the taxalde values in this year are $278,000,000. MR. BROWNE—They will be this year. MR. OATES—That is estimated? MR. BROWNE—It is estimated. I have the figures since we adjourned at dinner from two other counties. MR. OATES—That is a larger amount of taxable property than has ever been shown. MR. BROWN—No, sir; we have not got back to the taxable value before the last panic. MR. OATES—In 1891? MR. BROWNE—Just about that. It was about $275,000,000 or $276,000,000. MR. OATES—But it will make it larger than it ever was, if it is $278,000,000. 1212 OFFICIAL PROCFFDINGS MR. BROWNE—Well, practically the same; may be one or two million over, where we are only in the middle of a period of prosperity. We will have four such years more, if we presume we will have a panic in four years; but it does not make any dif¬ ference when you do not count on one dollar’s increase from this time one, because gentlemen can get up and say, in answer to that, that you believe that it will increase, and we believe that it will not. You do not need any increase in the taxable values to go on with a 65-cent rate, after the increase of this year. Certain¬ ly, gentlemen will not argue that we are going to have a panic next year. If they do, in answer to that I want to say: did you ever know a bank to keep all of its capital and all of its deposits on hand all the time looking for a panic, that is certain to come sometime in the future? Must the State of Alabama collect taxes for which it has no legitimate use from the people, and hoard up the surplus in the treasury looking forward to a day when a panic will come upon us? With that three hundred and forty- seven thousand dollars of absolute surplus in 1902, and six hun¬ dred and seventy-five to seven hundred thousand dollars actual cash balance in the treasury, with the power in the Governor to borrow three hundred thousand dollars, we would be in a condi¬ tion to stand a worse panic than we have ever known. MR, OATES—Will the delegate allow another interruption? MR. BROWN—Yes. MR. OATES—Is it not without exception that in any and all governments we ever knew anything about, when there is a sur¬ plus in the treasury it leads to very extravagant appropriations? MR. BROWNE—I thank the gentleman for the suggestion. They do not wait, Mr. President, until you have got a surplus; they simply wait until you have got a possible surplus in the fu¬ ture, and then members flock down to the General Assembly, each one with a pet scheme to get an appropriation for some pet object. And behind all of the opposition to the reduction of this rate of taxation is self-interest, not of individual members, but of particular objects. I do not know, it may become necessary be¬ fore the close of this discussion to state where some of the op¬ position comes from, but I shall wait until it develops. MR. ROBINSON—Was the report of this Committee on this section unanimous? MR. BROWNE—Yes, sir; unanimous. Now, I will state another thing, Mr. President, this is no pet scheme of mine, and as far as I know it is not the pet scheme of any member of the Committee. We had several resolutions referred to the Committee by members of this Convention, call¬ ing our attention to the pledge made by the Democratic party, in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1213 the platform, “be it resolved, that this Convention will lower the rate of State taxation if possible,” and with two or three such resolutions before the Committee, and with several ordinances low^erin^ the rate of taxation, it was our duty, Mr. President, to examine into that question carefully and thoroughly, and to re¬ port upon it accordingly, which we did. MR. FOSTER—^Will the gentleman allow a question? MR. BROWNE—Certainly. MR. FOSTER—The assessed value of the property in the State now is two hundred and sixty-six millions? MR. BROWNE—Yes, sir. MR. FOSTER — If there is a seventeen million increase, won’t it make it two hundred and eighty-three million? MR. BROWNE—Yes, but I do not count on its being sev¬ enteen. We have only heard from thirty-six counties altogether— MR. FOSTER — I will ask the gentleman if the two hun¬ dred and sixty-six million was not for the year 1900, and the pres¬ ent year’s assessment is not about eight million over that? MR. BROWNE—It will be at least twelve million over that of this year, upon which we collect taxes this fall. MR. FOSTER—Will the increase this year be about twelve million also? MR. BROWNE—That is the increase for this year. MR. FOSTER—I mean the increase next October. MR. BROWNE—We do not know what that will be. MR. FOSTER—I thought that was it. MR. BROWNE—No, this increase I have here is an actual ^bis ^ear over last, upon which increased assessment we collect taxes this fall. It is $8,445,000 from thirty-six counties, leaving thirty counties to be heard from. I have received in reply to these letters I have written to the probate judges, asking simply two questions in several instances communications from them urging that this Constitutional Con¬ vention enact some measure that would tend to cause some law to be enacted looking to the equalization of taxation over the State. I introduced an amendment to the report of the Com¬ mittee on Executive Department a few days ago, providing that certain State officers should be a Board of Equalization, which was very promptly laid upon the table. Some of the probate judges write me that in their counties property is not assessed at 1214 OFFICIAL PKOCEHDINCS over fifty cents of its actual value. Now the point that I wish to make right there is this; as you lower the rate of taxation, you increase the taxable value of the property, and as you in¬ crease the taxable value of property you lower the rate. Now 1 have examined the records with regard to the rate of taxes collected by a great many of the cities of the United States. W'e have heard different towns and localities in Alabama say look what a grand city Chicago is, and it never could have been such a magnificant city, if they had not levied and collected a rate of taxation of S5.50 upon every hundred dollars' worth of property. Co and look at the record, and you will see that it is the universal rule in Chicago for the Board of Assessors to assess the jjroperty at 10 per cent, of its value. Now when you figure it on that basis, Chicago has a rate of 55 cents. Illinois and Indiana levy a larger rate of taxation than Ala¬ bama. but it is officially known and stated that the assessable value of the real and personal property that is given in for taxes in both of those States at only from 20 to 25 per cent, of its real value. By looking at the figures in Alabama you will see that when taxes are raised, the values do not go up (juite so rapidh'. There is no doubt that the reduction of the rate from 75 to 65 cents will of itself increase the value sufficiently to make up for the difference. Now, Mr. President, in conclusion, I desire to say that as far as I am concerned, I do not desire this reduction of taxation for the benefit of the poor farmer alone, of whom we have heard so much upon the floor of this Convention. I desire it mainly in the interest of the welfare and industrial development of the State of Alabama. Georgia collects a State tax of 55 cents; Tennessee collects 50; Louisiana limits it to 60 in her Constitution. Indus¬ tries and capital will not come to Alabama and locate where you have a fixed lien on their property of 75 cents U])on the f 100. when they can go to States which have equal advantages, and wdiere the lien is much less. Georgia, it is true, has no constitutional limit upon the rate of taxation, but she has now a rate of a little over a5. less than 56, for all purposes, and that is considered in that State an exorbitant rate, and is the highest rate that they have had for several years. It is a well known fact that the rate of taxation in Chattanooga was the cause of building Roseville in Georgia. Hundreds of thousands of dollars came to Chatta¬ nooga for investment in manufacturing industries but the rate of taxation was high and they w'ent a mile and a half, into Georgia line, and put down hundreds of thousands of dollars of property. MR. HOWZE—I desire to offer an amendment. The amendment was read as follows; Amend Section 4 by striking out the words “sixty-five,” and inserting in lieu thereof the words “seventy-five,” and adding at CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1215 the end of the section the following: ‘Tor two years succeeding the adoption of the Constitution, after which no greater rate than sixty-five one-hundredths of one per centum shall be levied/’ MR. HOWZE In offering the amendment I feel somewhat embarrassed for two reasons. In the first place, I dislike very much to appear antagonistic to this able Committee on Taxation, which I am satisfied have thoroughly investigated the subject; in the secoiifl place, I do not want to a])pear as if I am antagonist¬ ic to a reduction of the taxes, because I am not; but it seems to me. Mr. President, and gentlemen, that there is some little doubt on the statement by the chairman of this committee, as to whether or not it will be wise for us to make this reduction at once. It seems to me that the margin which the gentleman has presented in the figures which he has given, is rather too slim to justify us right now in changing the rate of taxation. It seems it would be a much wiser plan to wait at least two years, until we can get prepared for this change in our rate of taxation. If this surplus accumulates, as the distinguished chairman of this committee has predicted, it would be wise to reduce the rate of taxation, and I feel we can trust the Legislature to make such a reduction, but it does seem to me that we are running a risk, and too much of a risk, to reduce the rate of taxation at once. There are extraordinary payments that will arise every year in our history. Instances will occur where we will be called upon to make extraordinary payments, and there is no certainty that this surplus will accumulate as our friend has told us in his re¬ marks this evening that it will. I do believe that the tax rate ought to be reduced, and I think it is something we ought all to anxiously hope for and demand, but it seems to me that we should not venture to hurriedly upset our tax plan, if we are wise men, as we will by this amendment to our Constitution. I think that after two years, when we can get prepared for this reduction, that it ought to be made, and I insist that my amendment covers the exigencies of the case, and will pre]')are our State for this import¬ ant event. MR. BAREFIELD—Will the gentleman allow one question? MR. HOWZE—Certainly. MR. BAREFIELD—Does the gentleman think it will be bet¬ ter to insert “seventy-five cents” and then, if we have a surplus in the treasury, allow the Legislature to reduce it? MR. HOWZE—No, I do not think that would be best. I think it would have a better influence, as the chairman of the committee has stated, for us to put it upon record that we pro¬ pose that all taxation shall be limited by our fundamental law. I think that the Legislature might probably make a reduction of the taxation, but it seems to me it would be wiser and best to put it 1216 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS in the fundamental law, and publish it to the world that we in¬ tend that our taxation shall be limited, and, for that reason, I have suggested this amendment. MR. BROWNE—Will the gentleman allow a question? MR. HOWZE—Yes, sir. MR. BROWNE—Upon what information does the gentleman predicate the suggestion he has offered that it would be unwise to decrease the rate of taxation beginning with October, 1902? MR. HOWZE —Upon your statement almost entirely. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—If your conclusion is that the figures are too slim, the committee is anxious for you to point out the difficulty. Don’t say that the figures are too slim, and let nobody know to what you refer, but give us the figures. HOWZE From what I have heard of the figures given by the chairman of the committee, this surplus is made upon a basis depending upon the payment of extraordinary expenses that we have made, such as the holding of this Convention and other things, the meeting of the Legislature and the refunding of a li¬ cense tax. All of these things he has counted in, in order to make up this surplus. Now these extraordinary expenses may come on in the next year or two. We do not know whether they will or not, and I say a surplus of one hundred and fifty or two hutidred thousand dollars is not too large a surplus for us to look to in making this reduction. If the surplus accumulates within two years, there is nothing to prevent the next session of the Legislature from reducing the rate of taxation, but it does seem to me that it would not be wise for this Convention to abruptly reduce it as I understand it would go into effect almost immed¬ iately. MR. BROWNE—^After the 1st of October, 1902. MR. HOWZE—You have not got that in the Section. MR. BROWNE—The levy for the next fiscal year has al¬ ready been made. This can only apply to levies to be made after that. MR. HOWZE—In 1902? MR. BROWNE—The levy under the new Constitution would not be made until December, 1902, and consequently the rate would not go into effect until 1903. MR. HOWZE—I think that is too short a time for us to take this leap. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I wish to offer an amendment to the amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1217 The Clerk read the amendment as follows: Amend the amend¬ ment by striking out all of it except the words “seventy-five cents.” The president—^T he question is on the amendment of¬ fered by the gentleman from Talladega to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson to Section 4 as reported by the Committee. I now recognize the gentleman from Talladega. MR. GRAHAM—Mr. President, I offered this amendment, not for the purpose of holding on to the burden of taxation or in¬ creasing the burden of taxation in Alabama, but out of abund¬ ance of caution. I must confess frankly that I have not the finan¬ cial optimism of the Committee. No doubt the majority of that Committee are better versed in finances than myself, both from their public experience and their private holdings. At the same time I want to say that no member of that Committee appreciates more the duties of a delegate in this Convention with reference to the tax-payers of this State than I do, and I want to say at the same time that no member of that Committee appreciates the credit and standing of the State of Alabama in the financial world more than I do. They talk about increase in valuation. I refer you to page 21 of the last report of the Auditor. In the year 1890 which was scarcely eleven years ago, the taxable values of this State were $259,000,000 in round numbers. In 1891 they were $275,000,000 in round numbers, the highest tide that we have ever reached. In 1892 they were $260,000,000, $15,000,000 decrease in one year. The next year they went down nearly $1,000,000. In 1895 they dropped to $243,000,000, and in 1895, scarcely six years ago they were $241,000,000; they commenced to go up and in 1900 they had reached $260,000,000, upon the estimate of the Chairman of the Committee we will get a little above $275,000,- 000 for' the present year, and we get back to where we were in 1891. Where/is the man of financial ken in this body that can undertake to tell us that in 1905 we will not find ourselves in the attitude that we were in 1895, drop back to $241,000,000. Then what are you going to do with the credit of the State of Alabama with a limitation of 6 1-2 mills for taxing power. I make this argu¬ ment upon the presumption that the State of Alabama is going to maintain its faith with the people in the appropriation for schools and for the Confederate soldiers. MR. ROBINSON (Chambers)—I will ask the gentleman if he knows what the tax rate was in 1895? MR. GRAHAM—I think one-half mill to the soldiers at that time we have a mill now, MR. ROBINSON—What was the tax rate? MR. GRAHAM—Five and one-half mills. 1218 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. OATES — I was going to say that at the session of 1894-5 it was increased from five to five and a half mills. MR. GRAHAM—Mind you, only one-half mill levied for the soldiers, and at the present time we have one mill for them. MR. BROWNE—Does the gentleman not know that in those days they did not collect the amount of corporation taxes that are now collected? MR. GRAHAM—Certainly, I know that. MR. BROWNE—Don’t the gentlemen know that large valu¬ ation of $275,000,000 was made up largely out of inflated values of boom town property which collapsed about that time, and that the shrinkage in values immediately following that was on ac¬ count mainly of shrinkage in boom town property? MR. GRAHAM—I understand that and appreciate it fully, but I care not whether it was levied on boomed town property, it was a tax and it was money when it was collected—boom or no boom. I was going on to say that we now have an obligation with the Confederate soldiers of this State for one mill tax, which is one-half mill above that of 1895, and we have a contract appro¬ priation with the citizens of this State for the support of the public schools of a one-mill tax that we did not have at that time. I am making this argument, as I say, out of abundance of caution, and not with a view of keeping up taxes in the State of Alabama. Suppose we do have these excellent values that they speak of? Can we not trust the Legislature with the tax rate? Did we not trust thern when they put it at five and one-half mills, and when they put it at four mills, when they could have raised it to seven and a half mills? Isn’t it a fact, gentlemen, that every man in this room who becomes a candidate for the Legislature usually incorporates in the first plank of his platform a reduction of taxes if the finances of the State will permit it. Do you suppose the character of the candidates for the Legislature is going to change? I think it is impossible for the leopard to change his spots, and it will be impossible for the politician to change his platform-re¬ duction of taxes. The distinguished gentleman who comes from my county, and the chairman of this committee, said it was not the province of the Constitutional Convention to levy taxes, but to fix the limit. MR. BROAVNE—When did I say that? MR. GRAHAM—And we are not today levying a tax by my amendment of 75 cents, but we are simply fixing the limit for the protection of the credit and the good name of the State of Alabama, and leaving it to the patriotism and the business sense of future Legislatures to levy a tax under that constitutional limit of 75 cents. When this act passed calling this Constitutional CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1219 Convention, there was no guaranty of a decrease in the limitation of tax rates we simply promised that we would not disturb the present rate of taxation. It is true that the Democratic party came on and said if it was possible, we would make a reduction, but do the figures of the Auditor for the year 1900, and for years past say that we can afford to do it? I asked the gentleman a while ago the question in regard to the renewal of the State's debt, bonds at 3 1-2 per cent, if that estimate was not largely upon the fact that the State of Alabama had a maximum rate of 75 cents. He differs with me in his answer to that question. It is not worth while to argue to a man for a moment that when a per¬ son undertakes to handle bonds that he is going to investigate not only the maximum tax rate, but he is going to investigate the valuations of the State or municipality for years past, and when he investigates the fluctuations of Alabama valuations, whether boom or not, he is going to fix his estimate on the average he strikes of the years he examines. Now' I cannot undertake to follow the intricacies of those figures, but I refer you to page 15 of the Auditor's report, of his estimate for the year ending Sep¬ tember 30th, 1901, and let us see how it tallies with the estimate of this Committee. On page 15 he makes the estimated total for receipts $2,547,500 for the year 1901. MR. BROWNE—Will the gentleman allow me to interrupt him a moment. MR. GRAHAM—Certainly. MR. BROWNE—The estimate was of the receipts and dis¬ bursements for this fiscal year, and are identical to a fractional part of a cent with the estimate made by our Committee—with Judge Cook of the Auditor's office. The figures you have be¬ fore you—if the gentleman had taken the trouble to inquire in the Auditor's office, he would have found that estimates were made a year ago, and that the receipts were $300,(XX) more than the estimate, and the disbursement $240,000. MR. GRAHAM—I will answer in a moment. I am quoting from the Auditor's report made a year ago, and the receipts are $2,547,500, and the disbursements $2,526,970, showing only a surplus of $21,000, in round numbers, and that does not in¬ clude what the State of Alabama had to pay back to the Uni¬ versity on account of the land sale which did not go into effect— $56,000 is the sum— MR. SAMFORD—Does it include what was to be paid back? MR. GRAHAM—Does not include any extraordinary appro¬ priation made by the last legislature. As to the difference of the gentleman’s estimate and the present, I say it in the hearing of men who were in the last legislature, and of men who have served Alabama in many legislatures, that we have today upon our sta- 1220 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS tute books the most drastic revenue law ever framed in Alabama. You cannot undertake to make estimates for future years upon the income or the estimated income which this revenue act will bring in framed by the last legislature. Shall we give the Gov¬ ernor of Alabama—the then acting Governor and the present Governor—any credit for financial sense and for the investigation of figures when we read his able and well-considered message to the legislature of Alabama, which said in substance: Gentlemen, you have reached the limit, you must make no more appropria¬ tions. Can we not trust our lamented Governor whom, as soon as he was able to assume the duties to which the unanimous voice of the people had called him, in his very first message to the leg¬ islature said in substance: Gentlemen, you must call a halt, you have reached the limit and you must protect the credit and the good name of Alabama, you cannot do it if you make any more appropriations. Now I attach some weight to these messages of these two Governors. I attach some weight to the opinion of such men as Richard Clarke of Mobile, who made a s])ecch upon this very floor and told the legislature of Alabama that they had reached the limit and that they must protect the good name of the State. I ask you, gentlemen, why did a bill which passed this House appropriating $100,000 to the Confederate soldiers of Ala¬ bama, why did that bill die in the Senate? Was it because men in that body did not esteem and revere the patriotism and the mem¬ ories of the men of 1860 and 1865? No, gentlemen, it was not for that because Alabama does love her soldiers, dead and those alive, they refused to do it simply because the business sense and wis¬ dom of the State said that the Treasury would not bear the ap¬ propriation at the present rate of taxation. Now, gentlemen, I did not expect to make this argument. I did not want to do it because you well know that when the question of the reduction of taxes is suggested to some people they are willing to reduce without reference to the effect that it may have upon the State or upon the credit of the municipality whose rate is to be reduced. I said in the outset that I appreciated the burdens of the people, and of the tax payers and I would be the first man if this were to fix a rate to it could not be changed or reduced, I would be the first man to come up and say that I would stand by it if it had to be the fixed rate. Rut when you come to fix a limitation, and leave it to future legislators to fix the rate. I am. out of abund¬ ance of caution, in favor of leaving it to the Legislature. Was ^ere any demand, gentlemen, when this question of calling the Constitutional Convention was up, that the tax limitation should be reduced. It never was heard of until the Democratic Con¬ vention and it was not heard of in the canvass, no man urged his election here that he might reduce the taxes, on the contrary the ^ ^ was asked to make any of my fellow citizens was, that I would not vote to raise the limit either of State, county CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1221 or city, and I am here to abide that pledge, and when I do abide by It, I have kept faith with every constituent I have and with the sovereign people of the State of Alabama. MR. REESE—May I ask the gentleman a question? The president—W ill the gentleman permit an inter¬ ruption ? MR. GRAHAM—Certainly. _>MR. REESE Isn t it a fact that the tax valuations have doubled since the rate was provided, and is it a fact that the legiti¬ mate expense of government have doubled in the same time? MR. GRAHAM—I do not understand the gentleman. MR. REESE—Isn’t it a fact that the tax valuation in 1900 were nearly double the tax valuations at the time of fixing this rate in 1875, and is it a fact that the legitimate expenses of State government have doubled in the same time—in twenty years? MR. GRAHAM—I think so, sir. I see here from a table which I have before me, from 1876 down to 1900 that the tax valuations have nearly doubled and it seems that while we had a rate of four mills at one time, that we have gone back to seven and a half mills, and we are spending it all. Now then, gentle¬ men, if we can do this it is all right but out of abundance of cau¬ tion— MR. OATES—If we are spending it all where are the flOO,- 000 going to come from the gentleman assured us would be on hand to buy the additional ground and improvements for the Capital? MR. GRAHAM—I am trying to get this Convention to an¬ swer that question. I stated at the beginning I did not know much about figuring these statistics, but I have read, gentlemen, with¬ in the past four years, a great deal in regard to a surplus and a deficit, I have never known whether there was one or the other, and I would not reflect upon any one in that matter, but it does seem to me that the very first discovery that Governor Jelks and Governor. Samford made and revealed about the Teasury was, that there was no surplus for them, and it was necessary for the Legislature to call a halt. There was no abuse of the taxing powers or appropriations during the administration of Governor Johnston that can be severely criticised. MR. HARRISON — Do you believe that the influences brought to bear on the last Legislature to pass that $100,000, that if it had not been for the 7 1-2 cent limitation that they would have voted it anyhow? MR. GRAHAM—I think they would, there is no doubt about it. I said a while ago that the men of Alabama appreciate the 1222 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS services of the men of 1861 and 1865 and it was only their busi¬ ness sense that said they must not go any further. MR. HARRISON — Do you not believe that 55 cents is enough for the people of Alabama to pay ? MR. GRAHAM—I will answer that question with the condi¬ tion it is enough for the people of Alabama to pay if they believe it right to take away the present one mill for Confederate soldiers and one mill for the public schools. MR. BROWNE — Will the gentleman allow me to ask a question? THE PRESIDENT—Will the gentleman permit an interrup¬ tion? MR, GRAHAM—Certainly. MR. BROWNE—Has the gentleman examined into the fig¬ ures in this matter sufficiently to say that in his opinion the rate cannot be reduced to 65 cents without taking away one mill? MR. GRAHAM—I will say most emphatically from the re¬ port of the Auditor of 1900- MR. BROWNE—Have you gone to the Auditor’s office and had that report corrected to show what the actual receipts were and that they were $300,000 over this estimate? MR. GRAHAM—I have not, but I have gone to the State Treasurer who said if you reduce this to 6 1-2 mills either the sol¬ diers will lose one mill or the public schools of the State will lose one mill, and I believe from his experience in that office he knows something of the finances of the State of Alabama. MR. BROWNE—Will the gentleman allow me to remark right there. Judge Cook has been the Chief Clerk for twelve years—without going into the matter as deeply as I have—he ex¬ amined it before the committee, spent an hour and a half before the committee, and gave his opinion that they could safely lower the rate to 6 1-2 mills and not touch the one mill for the soldiers or for the schools, nor touch the $550,000. MR. GRAHAM—One question. Did not Judge Cook make this very table for 1900? MR. BROWNE—That was an estimate for the future, and the Auditor’s office will tell you that they are always conserva¬ tive and make them less than they really are. MR. GRAHAM—I am pleading for conservatism. I appre¬ ciate the conservatism of this estimate I have here more than the conservatism of the estimate which has been read by the commit¬ tee. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1223 MR. deGRAFFENRElD—In the estimate Mr. Browne refers to, there was $75,000 estimated to be collected from the tax on guano ? MR. GRAHAM—Yes. MR. deGRAFFENRElD — And $20,000 from the sale of school lands? MR. GRAHAM—Yes, we have every possible estimate in the world in that including the drastic revenue law made for the ex¬ press purpose of meeting a deficit. The Chairman of the commit¬ tee who made the report informs me that they tax things that had never been taxed before and increased the taxes on other things that had never been increased before. I refer to Mr. Whit¬ son of Talladega, and that this revenue was made for the express purpose of forestalling a deficit, and how we can find these figures that go into fairy lands within less than nine months after the Legislature has adjourned. I cannot understand, unless under the theory I expressed a while ago, the financial optimism that has seized me. I tell you that the people of Alabama would bet¬ ter appreciate that you leave the taxes at seventy-five cents and thus assure the maintenance of the credit of Alabama rather than they would if you were to pitch at their feet the morsel of sixty- five cents and discredit the credit of the State within less than ten years or before we can call another Constitutional Convention. MR. KIRK—Will the gentleman allow me to ask a question? MR. GRAHAM—Certainly. MR. KIRK—Have you examined the figures and the state¬ ment made by the Chairman of the Taxation Committee? MR. GRAHAM—No sir, not very closely. MR, KIRK—Can you show this Convention that that state¬ ment is incorrect? MR. GRAHAM—No sir, I cannot, and I say that the com¬ mittee cannot show that it is correct until the time has expired for which they made the estimate. MR. KIRK-—What do 3^011 understand will be the surplus in the Treasury if it be correct? MR. GRAHAM—I don’t know what the^^ claim. MR. KIRK—What is it, Mr. Browne? MR. BROWNE—At the end of this fiscal year, $659,000— the Auditor will not dispute it, and nobody will dispute it if he knows anything about figures. MR. GRAHAM—What will be the liabilities? 1224 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. BROWNE—In round figures, about that much, book¬ keepers’ figures, and the receipts for October, November and De¬ cember will be more than sufficient to pay them, and they won’t be due until then. MR. GRAHAM—Don’t the liabilities begin at once in its in¬ terest on the debt and amounts due monthly and quarterly? MR. BROWNE—They are bookkeeping liabilities, but not payable until October, November and December, and the tax re¬ ceipts will largely more than pay them, MR. GRAHAM—They are estimated? MR. BROWNE—No; figures. MR. GRAHAM—How are they actual when you are deal¬ ing with the future? MR. BROWNE—We are not going on estimates alone. Go into the Auditor’s office and you will find for October, Novem¬ ber and December every dollar of this year’s receipts; there are only $50,000 or $60,000, to come in for this fiscal year. MR, GRAHAM—I would like to know if any of the tax as¬ sessments for this year have reached the Auditor’s office? MR. BROWN—They are not, but I do not suppose the gen¬ tleman doubts the statement I made a while ago that I had re¬ ceived information from thirty-four Judges of Probate showing an increase in value of $12,000,000? MR. GRAHAM—Not in the least. I simply asked the ques¬ tion if the tax assessment for the present year had gotten to the Auditor’s office. MR, BROWNE—I will state that the Auditor’s chief clerk told me this morning that several of the Probate Judges had sent the estimate in, but that it was not properly done, as they should have kept the estimate until the Commissioners’ Courts met in July, and called my attention to the fact that there would probab¬ ly be a large increase when they met to determine that matter in July. MR. GRAHAM—Now, in reply to these questions, I have only to say this, and I want my position understood, that it is not a criticism upon the action of this committee. I think it is com¬ mendable on their part to want to reduce the tax limit, and I join with them in it, but it is merely a question of caution, and in reply to all the question asked me, I put it to the committee, are you not willing to risk the patriotism and integrity of the Legis¬ lature to reduce the rate when they find the estimate you have made to be correct? MR, KIRK—There is one other question I desire to ask. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1225 MR. GRAHAM—Certainly. MR. KIRK—What amount of surplus do you think we ought to provide for accumulating in the Treasury every year to put cjurselves on the conservative idea that you suggest? MR. GRAHAM—I cannot say just what amount that should he, but I think it at least ought to be enough to meet fluctuations in value like we had from 18^ to 1895, and then back at the pres¬ ent time. MR. KIRK—Were the assessments of last year and year l)e- fore made upon boom valuations? MR. GRAHAM—They were made upon a rising tide of val¬ ues in Alabama, I am glad to say, and I believe we will reach high tide again next year in the natural course of financial matter, and it is the history of every State and every country that we have every ten or twelve years a period of depression, and I am only anticipating this again. I wish that this committee, in mak¬ ing their estimate, could, with their financial ken, assure us that this depression would not come back upon the people of Alabama within the next ten years. This Constitution, if we make it, and it is ratified, will stand for at least twenty-five years, and I do trust and hope that its conservatism not only on the franchise but on taxation, will be of such a character that it may stand for fifty years, and, gentlemen, I do not believe that 75 cents will be any too much to put in as a conservative maximum limitation. I will vote with the gentleman as readih^ as anybody should I become a member of the Legislature, for the reduction whenever the sur¬ plus appears. I ask you to guard what the State has done in the past and see to it that we take no backward step in our assistance to the Confederate soldiers, that their one mill shall stand there; that we take no backward step in educational matters, but that the one mill shall stand there, and with the $550,000 appropria¬ tion from the general fund, when you take those out bring it down to four and a half mills that the State must subsist on, and it has never been below four and a half mills but at one period, and when the distinguished ex-Governor was relating the trials that came upon him in the office of Chief Kxecutive. I put in comparison with it that he suffered more than that on account of the embar¬ rassment to the credit of the State and the State failing to meet its obligations, and he could not borrow more than $100,000. I can remember when the school teachers of the State went unpaid for months at a time when we had no money and then the rate was four mills, and under this plan if you keep faith with the Con¬ federate soldiers and the public schools, you bring it back to four and a half mills as a maximum and what are you going to do when the days of 1890 and 1895 come back upon the State? Is not the credit of the State- 1226 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR OATES—I was going to suggest to you on that point that as late as 1895 the State had borrowed f wav $500,000 though it could only borrow $100,Ihe way was done by placing the warrants of the State as collateral m New York and on the faith the people of New York had in this St^ate and it was absolutely necessary in order to pay the teachers their money, and at that time the tax rate was five mills. MR. GRAH.AM—Five and a half including the soldiers. MR. OATES—Five and a half at session of 1894-95. MR. GR-AHAM—And the State had $500,000 of floating in¬ debtedness? MR. OATES—Yes. MR. GRAHAM—With the rate five mills and the Commit¬ tee report brings it down to four and a half, you still have only one mill to go to the soldiers and one mill to the public school fund. Now there it is. There is the situation. I prefer to make it certain that the integrity of the State shall be maintained and then trust to the integrity of the Legislature that the taxing power of the State shall not be abused—that is all that there is in my proposition. I have the utmost confidence in every member of that Committee, I approve the motives which inspired them to do it, but I fear that they are reasoning upon a false premise if they believe that the State of Alabama and the sovereign people prefer that they should tamper with the good name of the State, simply to give them a promise of reduction in taxation. Gentle¬ men, consider this question well, and when you do vote, vote with it in your mind that you are going to maintain faith with the people of the State who are dependent upon the public schools, and with the Confederate soldiers who have received of your bounty and the bounty of the taxpayers of the State. Let me put one more point to you before I close. I do not believe that this Convention is going to pass the present limit of five mills in each county and seven and a half mills in the State. If you are not going to do that, where is the hope of the poor people of this State for educational facilities and educational fund except in the pres¬ ent State appropriation of $550,000 and the one mill special tax? I apprehend that the franchise law which we will frame here will cut down the poll tax receipts in this State. I apprehend that. Where are you going to compensate for that loss? There can be no local taxation. You talk about what the people will do-after you put it in the Constitution whether they will ratify it at the polls, and I say to you that the supreme thing which you may write in the Constitution of Alabama is not who shall or who shall not vote in the future, but when you go to the mass of the sovereign white people of this State, the supreme thing which you write in that Constitution will be the provision for the education of the white children of Alabama, and it is on that line and out of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1227 abundance of caution, that I stand here and plead for this Con¬ vention to leave the tax limitation at 75 cents, and risk it to the honor and integrity of future legislators to see that the people are not burdened under this limit, and that no surplus accumulates in our Treasury. MR. CUNNINGHAM—I take it for granted that there are some points upon which we all agree. First, that the honor and dignity of the State and its credit should remain absolutely unim¬ paired ; second, that the appropriations made for public schools should remain at least as high as they now are, and if possible in¬ creased; third, that the special tax for the benefit of ex-Confed- erate soldiers should remain what it is, and, if possible, be in¬ creased; fourth, that upon a majority of this Convention there is a limitation which acts as a bond of honor upon us, not to increase the tax rate of this State, and if possible to reduce it. It, therefore, follows, Mr. President, that in recommending a reduction of the tax rate, the Committee should be able to ex¬ plain and satisfy this Convention that this can be done without sacrificing either the credit of the State, the educational interests of the State, or the interests of the old soldiers. I confess to you, Mr. President, so far as I am concerned, I have been converted to the view of the Committee, which is unanimous, by the statis¬ tics furnished by the distinguished, able and pains-taking Chair¬ man of the Committee, which he gets fresh from the Auditor’s office of this State. I believe, Mr. President, that he has shown and for the reasons given in his very able address to this body, that all of these interests can be protected and at the same time taxes reduced to the amount of ten cents on the one hundred dollars. There are one or two points to which I desire to call special attention, and upon which to place special emphasis and that is that there will be for years to come a constant increase in the as¬ sessed valuation of property of this State and in proof of that I submit two facts; first, that the increase during the last few years has been due to an absolute increase of value and not speculative or boom prices. And I desire to call attention to the further fact that it is being demonstrated daily that the manufacture of cotton in this State can be done with a great prospect of dividends and with considerable return upon the money invested in it, and final ly and that which in my judgment will add greatly to the value of the Taxable property of this State, is the established fact that when we can in Alabama make steel, and when it is established that we can make steel, it shows we are in the markets of the world for the highest products of iron. It has been established for years that we make the cheapest pig iron in the world. Now, since it has been demonstrated that we can make steel out of our ore and that we can make it cheaper than any other point in the world, it naturally follows that this country, especially this min- 1228 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS eral district, will, in the next few years, increase twenty-five or fifty percent in valuation. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—What effect upon the mineral development of the State do you think the prospective steel trust will have? MR. CUNNINGHAM—That, Mr. President, is a practical question that enters into the economic consideration of trusts. I will answer the gentleman by saying that I do not believe that the great iron industry of the State of Alabama will ever be in¬ corporated into the Steel Trust of the United States, and if it is, it stands to reason that the steel trust of the United States would not shut down it property in which there is the largest profit and keep operating those in which there is the smallest profit, and I am here to say if that were done, if the iron industries of this/ State were absorbed by the United States Steel Com])any, the strong probability is it would double the iron and steel production of Alabama because those products can be more cheaply made here than elsewhere. Another reason why I believe this tax rate can be reduced is because the statistics of the State show that as the tax rate is reduced there is a tendency to an increased assessment of ])roper- ty, I call especial attention to the Auditor's report on ])age 21 where delegates will see that the tax rate was seven and a half in 1876. In 1877 it was reduced to seven mills and it remained at that figure until 1880. Delegates will find by referring to this table that the assessed value gradual!}" decreased from 1876 to 1879 inclusive. In 1880 the tax rate was reduced to six and a half mills and delegates will find that the assessed value of the State greatly increased until 1887. Delegates will find that after the tax rate was reduced to six mills the assessed value increased in 1885 and 1886 over what it was in 1884. In 1887 vou will find that the tax rate was reduced to five and a half mills^ in that year the assessed valuation was $214,000,000. In 1888 it was $228,000,000. In 1889 the tax rate w"as reduced to four and a half mills and we find a constant increase in the assessed valuation of the property until 1892. It therefore follows that as we decrease the rate there is an increavSed assessment and as you increase the rate other things being equal there is a diminished assessment of property. No'vv on the question of education. MR. GRAHAM One moment before the gentleman leaves that point. Do you not believe that the present State back tax law has raised the assessment to the highest limit possible? reference to the Auditor’s report you will find m the counties where the back tax law has operated it has been a great success and in the counties where it was not operated it was practically a nullity. We in Jefferson have felt it severely. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1229 MR. GRAHAM—And righteously. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Yes, righteously. Now, Mr. Presi¬ dent, the gentleman’s amendment proposes to strike out the only opportunity for local taxation for public schools. I am here to say that I am in favor of local taxation for public schools. MR. GRAHAM—So am I. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Not only that but I am in favor of an equitable distribution of the funds between the whites and the blacks of the State. The only opportunity to have local taxation for public schools is a reduction of the tax rate for the State and county. No delegate upon this floor who looks upon the Democratic platform as I do can afford to increase the rate of State and county taxes for any purpose whatever. But when it is reduced to sixty- five it leaves a margin of ten cents on the one hundred dollars or one mill tax, for school purposes and I now give for the benefit of the Convention a statement made before the Teachers’ Association a few days ago by one of the most distinguished and certainly a representative and possibly the best educator in the State of Ala¬ bama. I have reference to Prof. Phillips of Birmingham. He stated that the appropriation to the public schools out of the State treasury was sufficient and that the State was doing its part and he made an honest and earnest plea for local taxation for public schools not only for the purpose of raising the funds for educational purposes, but he cited the well known fact that men who take an in¬ terest in anything, who participate in it, feel a personal responsibil¬ ity they would not otherwise have and in that way there would be a stimulation in this line all over the State of Alabama. This I be¬ lieve is true and in this inheres the principal argument in favor of local taxation for public schools. I will not advance the idea, I re¬ pudiate it, that the great county of Jefferson which pays fifteen per cent, of the taxes of the State and gets back only one-third of that appropriated to public schools, should not bear its proportion of taxes for the purpose of educating the children of the entire State that are not so favorably placed as to natural resources. I believe the appropriation of the school fund out of the treasury of Alabama should be maintained and I am here to maintain it at its present limit. But I undertake to say there is an equity upon this question. I do not deny the fact that if the county of Jefferson were relieved of this ten cents on the one hundred dollars under a provision in the next section or two of this report it would have one mill for school purposes which would amount to $40,000 to the county of Jefferson. And it would amount to that to every county in Ala¬ bama that takes advantage of it, but I am here to say that every community in every county should feel it might come home to them and that the responsibility of this matter, that they should not look altogether to the city of Montgomery or to the Legislature for relief. 1230 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. SAMFORD—Do you hold to the principle that it is the duty of the State to educate its citizens or that it is the duty of the county? MR. CUNNINGHAM—In a case such as ours where there is an unequal distribution, where there are greater and lesser coun¬ ties, it is the duty of the State to appropriate money out of the common fund of the State for the purpose of extending- the bene- ficient blessings of education to the poorer districts. MR. SAMFORD—I will ask the gentleman if the reduction of ten cents won’t have the effect to stop any increased appropria¬ tion out of the general treasury for public education in Alabama. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly not. but I will admit this that it would limit the capacity of the Lej^islature to appro{)riate money to a certain extent, but it transfers the responsibility and the authority in the matter from the State to the counties and the communities and it is an equity that inheres in that that the com¬ munity should beiar its proportion. MR. SAMFORD—Then the gentleman holds that it is the duty of the county to educate its citizens and not of the State? MR. CUNNINGHAM—As a part of your educational system and in this I am not alone but am in accord with the educational sentiment of the State upon this subject, as gathered from the teachers of the State of Alabama who know more in one minute about education than either the gentleman from Pike or the gen¬ tleman from Jefferson can know in a whole day. That is their view and I believe it is in keeping with the knowledge of human nature and in the general faculties making up the mind, that when you get a man interested in a question he will feel more interest than if he were an infant with the great State at Montgomery caring for him, I am asked what would be the effect of a fall in the rate of assessment on securities. It would increase the assess¬ ment twenty-five million. If you read the Auditor’s report there are some novel features upon that question. I notice, for instance, that in the great county of Jefferson the amount of money hoarded in banks is $130,000, whereas in Geneva it is $260,000. That must be a typographical error. But the legislator who solves the great problem of smoking out the wealth that is hidden, that it may l)e exposed to taxation will be the greatest statesman ever produced up to this time in,the world’s history. Now, I have taken up more time than I had ex])ected. but if I can emphasize the fact that in voting for this committee’s report, both as a member of the committee and as a delegate upon this floor, I do so with a clear and distinct conviction that I will not rob a single child in the State of Alabama of a single cent that is now appropriated for his education; that I will not detact from the State of Alabama an iota of its present high and great credit; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1231 that I will not take from the old soldier of Alabama a solitary cent that he has for his comfort and support in his declining- days; if I had a thought otherwise, I would have brought in a minority report and opposed this proposition. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Was it the purpose of the com¬ mittee, if the question is proper, in suggesting that the tax rate be reduced to 65 cents, to enable this Convention to adopt the 1-mill tax for county purposes? MR. CUNNINGHAM—I can answer only for myself that that is one of the purposes I had in view. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—Suppose the Convention does not see proper to adopt that system, and it should fail, would the gentleman be in favor of going back to the 75 cents? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Then the responsibility will rest on the friends of education and not upon the Committee on Taxation. MR. GRAHAM—I want the gentleman to understand that I endorse local taxation and so stated awhile ago. MR. CUNNINGHAM—Now, in regard to trusting the Legis¬ lature : I have no distrust of that honorable body. I have had the honor to be a member of it once or twice. I think it is a great honor, though some of my constituents differ with me—I am quite sure that is pretty general—but I want to call attention to a prin¬ ciple that inheres in human nature. It is true with the individual; it is true with the family; it is true with the community, and it is true wdth the State, that a surplus leads to extravagance always, and if there were a surplus in the treasury of the State of Alabama of say $500,000, and it was up to the Legislature to reduce the tax rate one mill on the dollar or to increase it for the purpose of edu¬ cation or some other such purpose, when the barefooted boy was disclosed to the vision of the Legislature, when the rhetorical bubbles of eloquence were held up before that body, what would be the result? They would vote the increase. I say, Mr. Presi¬ dent, frankly, I am in favor of this limitation, not through distrust of the Legislature, but because I believe property in the State of Alabama should have some constitutional guaranty as to the ex¬ tent to which it can be taxed. At the suggestion of a gentleman, I repeat that Dr. Phillips stated in his address, and it was liberally applauded, that Alabama was doing as much out of the State treasury as she ought to do. That being the case, and inasmuch as the great question of local taxation for public schools depends upon the adoption of the committee’s report, and, believing as I do, on this question of local taxation for public schools, I want to say I believe it to be the duty not only of those who honestly and conscientiously believe that this can be reduced without bringing detriment to the State, but also of those who favor local taxation for public schools, to vote for this committee’s report. 1232 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. BULGER—Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question? MR. CUNNINGHAM—Certainly. MR. BULGER—Do you not believe that if the tax rate were reduced to 65, it will absolutely prohibit the Legislature from do¬ ing anything more for the old soldiers and the public schools both? MR. CUNNINGHAM—I do not, for the reasons stated here¬ tofore that there is going to be a constant increase in the value of property in the State of Alabama for the reasons I attempted to give, and because the reduction in the tax rate will lead to a volun¬ tarily increased assessment of property in the State, and, there¬ fore, there will be as much money in the treasury under this re¬ duction as there would be if the rate remained seventy-five. MR. BULGER—Do you not believe it will decrease the ca¬ pacity of the legislature to do anything more for the soldiers and for the public schools? MR. CUNNINGHAM—The answer I gave to the gentleman's former question was that the increase in the value of the property, the voluntarily increased assessment, would lead to as much money being in the treasury as there is today and therefore it would not decrease the capacity or power of the legislature to make this in¬ crease. MR. ASHCRAFT—Mr. President, I venture to make any re¬ marks on this subject with great trepidation. I admit my inex¬ perience. I feel profoundly interested in the great question of local taxa¬ tion for schools. That question lies very near to my heart. I be¬ lieve it is one of the essential elements of the educational problem of this State. But as much as I love that idea, I love the idea of the general prosperity of my State and its good name and credit more. Upon the preservation of that good name and credit all of our prosperity depends. When the Committee made this state¬ ment it was reinforced by giving to us a sort of history of the dis- tinquished gentleman who furnished the figures, that he has been in the Auditor’s office for twelve years, that these figures were received from him, that he is regarded as an authority on these questions of taxation. So I went down and had an interview with the gentleman and he had the goodness to give me the orgiiial figures or the sheet of paper which contains the original figures, which he furnished to the Committee. He says that the conclu¬ sions of the Committee are its own conclusions and not his con¬ clusions. “What are your conclusions. Judge Cook?” “My con¬ clusions are on that piece of paper, and they are that if this tax is reduced, as is proposed by the Committee, the probable income of the State wdll be $1,750,000, while its probable expenditures will be $1,914,000.” Then another question was propounded; “Ac- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1233 cording to your experience and observation, do you believe, if this reduction is made, that the State can continue its present policy of appropriating one mill to the schools and one mill to the old sol¬ diers?” He said: “My opinion is that one or the other of those appropriations will suffer.” It is but due since his name has been given as authority on this floor that his conclusions should be furnished to this Con¬ vention and I have, therefore, taken the liberty of quoting from the paper which he furnished me. MR. KIRK—May I make a suggestion? MR. ASHCRAFT—Certainly. MR. KIRK—Judge Cook was before the Committee and I put the question to him : “Can we safely reduce the tax rate to six and a half mills and not interfere with this special appropria¬ tion for schools and for soldiers and at the same time make the $550,000 appropriation annually?” He said: “In my opinion you can.” MR. ASHCRAFT—I think the gentleman from Washington was present and heard the direct reply to the interrogatory which I propounded to Judge Cook. Here are the figures in black and white. Receipts $1,750,000; expenditures, $1,914,000. MR. BROWNE—May I interrupt the gentleman to make a statement ? MR. ASHCRAFT—Yes, sir. MR. BROWNE—^Judge Cook did not have those figures be¬ fore the Committee. Judge Cook did some figuring of his own. Judge Cook, without being influenced by any person whomsoper, after a careful investigation, in the presence of the Committee, gave it as his opinion that we could safely lower the rate from seventy-five to sixty-five to take effect next year and not affect the soldiers one mill nor the school tax one mill, nor the $550,000. Judge Cook helped me get up the figures that I published in a paper when this report first came in. MR. BEDDOW—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Talladega is not asking a question but making an additional speech. MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that I asked the gentleman could I make the statement and the gentleman yielded and I am now making the statement. MR. BEDDOW—I make the point of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM (Jones, Hale)—Does the g n- tleman submit to be interrupted? 1234 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. BROWNE—No, sir; I am not through. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—Does the gentleman from Lauderdale consent to the interruption? MR. ASHCRAFT—I am sorry but the gentleman has the concluding of the debate— MR. BROWNE—Then the gentleman declines to allow me to correct a mis-statement? MR. BEDDOW—I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is out of order. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman from Talla¬ dega is out of order. MR. ASHCRAFT—I have made no mis-statement. Here are the figures that were furnished me. MR. BROWNE—I rise to a question of personal privilege. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The gentleman will state the question. MR. BROWNE—The figures the gentleman presents are en¬ tirely different from those reported by me and the gentleman states that those figures are the figures Judge Cook presented before the Committee. I desire to state that they are not the figures that Judge Cook presented before the Committee. MR. ASHCRAFT—The gentleman misunderstood me if he understood me to say that those are the figures that Judge Cook presented to the Committee. I stated that Judge Cook said he had presented the figures to the Committee and that they are correct, but that the conclusions which the Committee had drawn from those figures were the conclusions of the Committee, that the conclusions which he drew from those figures are as I stated to this Convention. I think that is clear. Now the point I desire to make is this: That we are propos¬ ing to set a limitation upon the power of the Legislature to impose taxes upon the property of this State and we are ])roposing to set that limitation probably for fifty years to come. We are un¬ dertaking to say that there will come no time in the historv of the State when it will need a larger appropriation or not so large an appropriation as it is now using. If we are about to do that upon the conclusions of gentleman from figures and statistics which have been made up from our past records, we should act with great caution when it comes to an action based on that sort of information, because, Mr. President, here are gentlemen of business capacities, business integrity and patriotic purposes who draw a very optimistic conclusion as to the future, and here is a man who is quoted as one of the best authorities in the State who CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1235 draws an entirely different conclusion! Which of these conclu¬ sions is correct? Can this Convention take the risk of saying this man is wrong and the Committee is right? Are not the in¬ terests involved too great for us to take any risk on the subject of reducing this limit on taxation? If it should result in a reduction of the school fund or if it should result in a reduction of the old soldier fund or if it should result in depriving the State of the ability to take any forward step in that great social, moral and political progress which it ought to take before another Consti¬ tution is made, then, Mr. President, ought we not to stand on the safe side? Can we afford to do something here today which may probably stand across the ])ath of progress and hinder our ad¬ vance? I said a while ago that much as I love certain other ideas and thoughts which are before the Convention, if to maintain our present standard of security those other ]U*inci])als must he sacri¬ ficed, I am willing to make the sacrifice. We have great things in store for this State, l)Ut we are not going to continue to increase in financial prosperity, our great manufacturing and our great agricultural districts arc not going to increase and multiply and grow great without making u])on us corresponding demands for ])rogress in all the other departments of government; and it is only through this means of levying a tax upon the property in this State that we can make this political, social and educational progress. And so, Mr. President, I say the risk we take in making the reduction, the chances Ave take of injuring the credit of our State and of compelling ourselves in the very near future to pay a higher rate of interest by endangering our credit—all of these things ought to make us vote for this reduction only after the most ma¬ ture deliberation. We ought not, I say Mr. President, to take this great risk. MR. deCRAFFENREID—I move the adoj)tion of the amend¬ ment of the gentleman from Talladega and Ui)on that I move the previous question. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—I ask the gentleman to withdraw' that motion. MR. REESE—The amendment of the delegate from Talla¬ dega is not before the House. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM—The Chair understands the amendment of the gentleman from dalladega to the amendment of the gentleman from Jefferson’s (Mr. Howze) original Section of the Committee's report is the question now^ before the House. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—Mr. President, I dislike to he put in the attitude of opposing a reduction of taxation. Some of those who have advocated this report and even the Chairman of the 1236 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Committee whose report proposes to reduce the tax limit in Ala¬ bama, have sought to put those who are opposed to the reduction of the tax limit in the attitude of opposing the reduction of taxa¬ tion. That is hardly a fair statement of the proposition. I opposed the report of the Committee to reduce the tax limit from 75 cents to 50, or the lower fractions if you choose to put them that way, upon the ground that it is unnecessary, that it is uncalled for ancl that it is an attempt upon the part of this Convention to prescribe legislation which ought properly to be left to the legislative as¬ semblies that are to come after us. In the argument of the dis¬ tinguished gentleman from Jefferson who preceded me he read from a report showing that after the tax limit was i)lace(l at 75 cents in 1876, in 1877 the General Assembl}" reduced the rate of taxation to 70 cents, that it stood at 70 cents for two years and in 1880 it was reduced to 65 cents, that it stood at 65 cents for four years. Then in 1885 the General Assembly reduced the tax rate—I repeat that to show the distinction between the tax limit and the tax rate—to 60 cents. It kept that that for two years and in 1887 the General Assembly reduced the tax rate to 55 cents and the next year reduced it to 50 cents, in 1889 to 45 and in 1890 to 40 cents. So it continued until 1892. But the General Assembb^ had reduced the tax rate too low and they found it out and they increased it in 1893 to 50 cents, in 1894 it was 50 and in 1895 55, and it went on until they had to go back to the limit. And to meet what? I deny it was a gross expenditure of public money. They had to do it because the General Assembly had reduced the tax rate so low that there came a deficiency in the Treasury and it was in order to pay the State's honest delfts and we had to go l)ack to the full rate. There is a lesson to be learned right there. It is against the policy of good government to accumulate a sur¬ plus in the Treasury; but it is against the policy of good govern¬ ment to have a deficit in the Treasury. And so the General As¬ sembly meeting every two years, as I hope it will continue to meet, can deal with the existing conditions as the\^ find them, and if the condition of affairs justify the reduction, you know that the General Assembly can be trusted to make the reduction. The record of the past has shown it. Now, if the General Asseml)ly had had a narrow limit within which to make the reduction, it would not have been safe to have done it, and it would have been necessary to preserve the credit of the State to continue the tax rate which had put the surplus in the Treasury to meet contin¬ gencies. But fortunately they were able to meet the situation, knowing that when those conditions changed and when with a lower rate they can still protect the credit of the State, they will go back to it. I dare say there has not been a sentiment in any section de¬ manding a limit on the power of the General Assembly below that established by the Constitution of 1875. The record of all these years is that this matter has been safely left to the General As- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1237 senibly and why should we depart from it now? Is it because this Constitutional Convention proposes to discharg-e the functions of all the leg’islatures that are to come after it? If we cannot trust the Legislature to deal fairly with the people, how can w^e well trust ourselves? The people might be as jealous of our assertion of powder as of the Legislature^. The Legislature is elected by the same people that sent us here. They are as honest and good men as we dare claim ourselves to be. The}^ are jealous of the welfare of the State. Two weeks ago I thought I saw- a conservative sen¬ timent in this Convention, to leave the old Constitution which our father framed untouched in every sentence and in every syllable except where a new^ demand had arisen or an evil had been found under the old system. But in these later days in the last feAV days there has growm up a sentiment I scarcely know whence it came, but each man wdio conceives that the General Asseml)ly has not enacted laws suited to his idea, now w^ants to repeal that law in this Constitutional Convention. Gentlemen of the Convention, we are not sent here for any such purpose. We are sent here to frame a Constitution that would stand for at least as many years as our present constitution. Now- upon the doctrine of equity, let us consider it. I w^as ask¬ ed a w-hile ago by a meml)er of the Convention I esteem, ''Do you know^ of any reason wdiy w^e should adopt it? Do you know of any reason under this record on page 21 w^hy wt should not be willing to trust the General Assembly to deal fairly wdth the tax rate?’’ MR. ROBINSON—Has not the general average tax rate in the last tw^ent}^ years been below six and a half? MR. LOWE—I have no doubt the gentleman can answ^er it better than I can and I do not doubt he asks the question because he can answ^er it and I w^ould like for him to answ^er it. MR. deGRAFFENREID—And if that is so, didn’t it show that w'e can still trust the Legislature? MR. LOWE—That is what I w^as going to say. Now looking at this as you w^ould on a suit in chancery for an injunction or any other extraordinary remedy. A court would first consider wdiat wdll be the effect of the denial of the remedy asked for and if it appears that serious consequences may follow the granting of relief and but slight evil consequences will follow^ the refusal of the relief, it is the duty of the court to deny the relief asked in the extraordinary form. So I ask what evil can follow^ to Alabama by reason of the refusal to pass the recommendation of the Committee, can any evil result in the light of history? And I ask the Chairman of the Committee can any evil result by leaving it where it is? MR. BROWNE—I think if evil w^ould not result from leaving it where it is, the Democratic State Convention would not have 1238 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS pledged us to reduce that rate, if possible, I will now ask the gentleman again what did the Democratic party mean in State Convention assembled by pledging this Convention to reduce that rate, if possible? MR. LOWE—I will answer the gentleman, because I am glad to say, though some sections of the press may have favored a departure from the Democratic platform, no Democrat has yet raised himself on this floor to advocate a departure in the slightest degree from the pledges made to the people. The pledge of the party was, in the first place, that there should be no increase in the tax rate, and, if possible, that there should be a reduction. How are we to determine the possibility? It lies in the consciences of the members of the Convention to determine it, and upon whose authority are we asked to determine it? Upon authority that I respect, an authority that may be immaculate, but is not infallible. It seems that this unanimous report of the committee has been based upon the representation of the clerk in the Auditor’s office. MR. BROWNE—That statement is not exactly correct, and I would like to correct it. MR. LOWE—The authority for making the statement has been stated to the convention. MR. BROWNE—I stated who gave that to us and we went in and examined it and I could state that I have spent fifteen or twenty hours in the Auditor’s office myself on the matter. MR. LOWE—If I misstated that, the Convention already knew the sources of information and the ground upon which the recommendation was made, but I say that this Convention ought to hesitate to accept such an authority in the fact of the tremen¬ dous consequences that may follow an error in the judgment of these gentlemen. And we know by the records that the gentle¬ man the committtee quotes, that if this amendment prevails, if we adopt the old clause of the Constitution that no evil can come to the ])eople because representatives fresh from the ])eo])le every two years will determine this question. Bvit, Mr. Presidtnt, I should not have cared so much al)out that, although I recognized that as one of the dangers which menaced this Convention and the State—I would not have cared so much for that as for the tendency that has manifested itself and cropped out in every report and in the argument of every man who has appeared on this floor with a fad or hobby, that it should be protected by the Constitution. The Constitution is not a grant of power to the Legislature; it is simply a limitation, a negation, upon them. The call for this Convention was made possible by one impulse. There was no man who dared before the call for the Convention go out on the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1239 stump and advocate particular reasons why this Convention should be called. But one of them was to purify the franchise to make possible fair and honest elections in Alabama. This Con¬ vention would do its work well if it provided for that conting-ency; if it preserved this Government in the hands of white people, where the elections would be fair and free from fraud and then adjourn. The people would say well done. But if that is not done, if there is a glaring evil that must be corrected, let us do it, but when we are called on to accept the opinion of one set of men admitted to be expert as against the opinion of another set of men whom I believe to be experts, I will accept the opinion of the set of men which, if wrong, will have the least evils following it. MR. PEARCE—It seems to me that this matter has been pretty well discussed, and about all the trouble in it is imaginary evil. In fact, nearly all of our troubles are that. I want to state to this Convention that we examined this matter as carefullv as we knew how, and I think we knew how. We examined all the resources of information without fear of punishment or hope of reward. Panics have been used on this floor as a great scarcecrow. Now it is always fair to discuss both sides of any proposition, and the gentlemen who discussed the panics never told this crow’d that the men who make the monev by their sweat to ])ay the taxes in this State—that when the panics came, their power to pay would be reduced. I hope we won’t have any panics, but if we do, it will effect the men who make the money by bringing themselves in contact with the minerals, just as much as it will effect property. The only question for you to decide is, whether if this panic comes, you will use a little more economy in the administration of your State or whether you will sweat the people more that make the money to pay the taxes. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I do not care to take up the time of the convention in further discussion, and I move the pre¬ vious question on my amendment. MR. REESE—I move to table the amendment of the gentle¬ man from Talladega. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.—The previous question has been called for and the question is, is the call sustained t MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that any delegate has a right to move to table the amendment of the lack well, Rulger, Carmichael, of Colbert, Carmichael, of Coffee, Case, Cornwall, dcCraffenreid, IMey, Eysier, (iraham, of Talladega, (ireer, of Calhoun, Total—41. NOES. Henderson, Hood, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Montgomcr 3 % Kirkland, Ledbetter, Lomax, Lowe, of Jefferson, McMillan, of Wilcox, Murphree, Norman, Oates, O’Neill (Jefferson). Opp, 1 A^rter, Samford, Sanders, Selheimer, Smith, of Mobile, Smith, Alac A., W'addell, W atts, Weakley, \Mdtc, ’ Williams, of Barbour, Wilson, of Clarke, W ilson, of W’^ashington, ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Bartlett, Beavers, Boone, Dent, Ferguson, Foshee, Freeman, Gilmore, (jraham, of Montgomery, Handle}', Howell, Jones, of Hale, Locklin, Long, of Butler, Long of Walker, Lowe, of Lawrence, Mulkey, Norwood, Parker, of Cullman, Reynolds, of Chilton, Sollie, Thompson, V’^aughan, W^illet, Williams, of Elmore. So the motion to table was carried. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1245 MR. BROWNE—I now move the previous question upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson offered by the gentleman from Jefferson, and u])()n the original section as reported by the committee. MR. O’NEAL—I ask the gentleman to withdraw his motion. There are several gentlemen who have amendments which they ought to have an opportunity to ))resent. MR. del'iRAFFENREID—I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Jefferson and the section was reported by the committee u])on the table, and upon that I call for the ayes and noes. MR. L(^WE (Jefferson)—I move that we do now’ adjourn. 'rifE PREvSI DENT—The gentleman from Talladega moves the i)revious question upon the amendment offered b}- the gentle¬ man from Jefferson, and the section as reported by the committee. Thereui)on the gentleman from Hale moves to lay upon the table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson, and the section as re])orted by the committee. Thereupon the gentleman from Jefferson imtves that this Convention do now’ adjourn. As many as favor the motion to adjourn will say aye; those opposed w’ill say no. And the motion to adjourn was lost. d'HE PRESIDENT—The question recurs ui)on the motion to table, d'he ayes and noes have l)cen demanded and the (|ues- tion is, is the call sustained? The requisite number of members stood up. MR. CDLEMAN (Greene)—I ask for a division of the ques¬ tion, if it can be done. THE PRESIDENT—The call for the ayes and noes is sus¬ tained. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I call for a division of the ques¬ tion. d'HE PRIiSIDENT—The chair will state that this question w’as ruled by the chair contrary to the right for a division, but upon further reflection and investigation, the chair is of the opinion that in overruling the request for a division, the chair was in erroi. The chair wall reserve the former ruling, and rule that the division is in order. The first question will be upon the motion to table the amend¬ ment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson. The chair will state he finds it laid dowm by Mr. Cushing in his Law’ of the Practice of Legislative Assemblies, that a division 1246 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS may be had upon a motion to table, where the motion to table relates to more than one separate and distinct proposition. The question is first upon the motion to lay upon the table the amend¬ ment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson, to the section as reported by the Committee on Taxation. MR. BROOKS—I rise to make the point of order that the motion to divide has reference to a pending resolution, wherever the sense will admit of it, but on a motion to table tw^o resolutions, it does not mean a division of the question; that is a separation of the two motions, which is altogether a different thing. THE PRESIDENT—Mr. Cushing lays it down that where a motion to table contains two propositions, an original proposition and an amendment to the proposition, that it is in order to have a vote upon each in their order. So the question is upon the motion to table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson, and upon that the ayes and noes are called for, and the call has been sustained. MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)—I call for the reading of the amendment. The amendment was again read. MR, GRAHAM (Talladega)—I would like to have it read in connection with the section which it proposes to amend. The section and the amendment were read. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll. During the call of the roll:— MR. BiANKS —I am paired with Mr. Eeigh; if he were present he would vote aye and I vote no. MR. LONG (Walker)—I am paired with the gentleman from Montgomery; if he was present he would vote no and I would vote aye. MR. SLOAN—I ask the chair to state the question so that I may have an opportunity to change my vote. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion to table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson to the section reported by the committee. MR. SLOAN—Do I understand that the vote is now to table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson? the PRESIDENT—It is. MR. SLOAN—I wish to change my vote to aye. The call of the roll resulted as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 Almon, Barefield, Bethune, Blackwell, Brooks, Browne, Bulger, Burnett, Burns, Byars, Cardon, Carnathon, Case, Chapman, Cobb, Cofer, Coleman, of Greene, Coleman, of Walker, Craig, Cunningham, Davis, of DeKalb, Davis, of Etowah, deGraffenreid, Duke, Espy, Fitts, Fletcher, Foster, Glover, Grant, Grayson, Greer, of Perry, Total—94. Messrs. President, Ashcraft, Beddow, Carmichael, of Colbert, Carmichael, of Coffee, Cornwall, Eley, Eyster, Graham, of Talladega, Greer, of Calhoun, Henderson, Total—33. AYES. Haley, Harrison, Heflin, of Chambers, Heflin, of Randolph, Hinson, tiodges, Inge, Jones, of Bibb, Jones, of Wilcox, King, Kirk, Knight, Kyle, Lomax, Lowe, of Jefferson, Macdonald, McMillan, of Baldwin, Malone, Martin, Maxwell, Miller (Marengo) Miller (Wilcox) Moody, Morrisette, NeSmith, O’Neal (Lauderdale), O’Rear, Palmer, Pearce, Pettus, Phillips, Pillans, NOES. Hood, Howze, Jackson, Jenkins, Jones, of Montgomery, Kirkland, Ledbetter, McMillan (Wilcox), Murphree, Norman, Oates, Pitts, Proctor, Reese, Renfro, Reynolds, of Henry, Robinson, Rogers (Lowndes), Rogers (Sumter), Samford, Sanders, Sanford, Searcy, Sentell, Sloan, Smith (Mobile), Smith, Morgan M., Sollie, Sorrell, Spears, Spragins, Stewart, Stoddard, Tayloe, Walker, Weakley, Weatherly, Whiteside, Williams (Marengo), Wilson (Wash’gton), Winn. O’Neill, of Jefferson, Opp, Parker (Elmore), Porter, Selheimer, Smith, Mac. A., Waddell, Watts, White, Williams (Barbour), Wilson (Clarke), 1248 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Altman, Graham, of Montgomery, Mulkey, Banks, Handley, Norwood, Bartlett, Howell, Parker (Cullman), Beavers, Jones, of Hale. Reynolds (Chilton), Boone, Leigh, Thompson, Dent, Locklin, Vaughan, Ferguson, Long of Butler, Willet, Foshee, Long, of Walker, Williams (Elmore), Freeman, Lowe, of Lawrence, Gilmore, Merrill, And the amendment was laid upon the table. MR. deGRAFFENREID—I believe there was a division— MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order that the previous question was ordered. MR. deGRAFFENREID — There was a motion to law the amendment and Section on the table, and the gentleman from Greene called for a division, and the Chair held the question could be divided, and the House has voted upon the amendment. The next in order it seems to me, would be the call of the roll as to whether the Section should be laid on the table. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—I move we adjourn. THE PRESIDENT—The next question will be upon the Section as reported by the Committee. MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I move we adjourn. THE PRESIDENT—The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Hale— MR. WILSON (Clarke)—I call for the ayes and noes on the motion— THE PRESIDENT—They have been ordered. MR. WILSON (Clarke)—On the motion to adjourn? THE PRESIDENT—The Chair rules a motion to adjourn is not in order after the previous question has been ordered. MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)—The previous question has not been ordered. MR. WILSON (Washington)—This is a motion to table. The previous question was displaced by a motion to table. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman is correct. The motion by the gentleman from Hale was to lay upon the table, first the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jefferson then the Sec- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1249 tion as reported by the Committee, and a division was called for and granted. The question would now be upon the motion to table the Section as reported by the Committee. MR. deGRAFFENREID—And it seems to be a motion to adjourn would not be in order. THE PRESIDENT—Will the g'entleman suspend a moment? The Chair rules a motion to adjourn will not be in order when the Chair is stating^ a question, or when the roll is being: called, or has been called and the vote has not been announced. The roll is being called now upon a division of the question, and a motion to adjourn is not in order. The question is upon the motion to lay u])on the table the Section as reported by the Committee. MR. JENKINS—I rise to a point of order. THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman will state the point of order. MR. JENKINS—Under the rules we adopted yesterday, this Convention stands adjourned at 6 o’clock, and it is now 6 o’clock. MR. BROWNE—I make the point of order, Mr. Chairman, if the hour of adjournment— THE PRESIDENT—The point of order is not well taken. As many as favor laying upon the table the Section as reported by the Committee will say aye, and those opposed no, as their names are called. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—Do I understand the Chair to hold that the Convention is now in the act of taking a vote when the Chair has just stated the question and not a name has been called upon the roll? THE PRESIDENT—The vote is being taken under the di- vision of the question. MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—The roll is not now being called Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT—It seems to the Chair that the Conven- tion is in the act of voting upon a division of the question, having voted upon one branch— MR. LOWE (Jefferson)—I know that debate is not in order, but I make it as a suggestion; suppose there had been six divisions of the question, and the hour of adjournment was about to strike, and the vote by ayes and noes upon each one of these questions w^ould have taken as long as it takes here, some twenty minutes, would the President hold that— (Here the clock struck the hour of 6 o’clock.) 1250 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS I want to say that what I have said is in expression of my opposition to gag law, by which they seek to establish a permanent la^w upon AlaLma, and I am going to continue to do it as long as the advocates of measures here appeal to gag law, MR. JONES (Montgomery)—I rise to a point of order. This Convention stands adjourned under its own rule. THE PRESIDENT—The Convention will stand adjourned until 10 o’clock tomorrow morning. CORRECTION In proceedings of thirty-first day, part of the report of Com¬ mittee on Amending the Constitution and Miscellaneous Piovisions was omitted. In is here inserted. The motion to turn over the affairs of the State last column of third page was made by Mr. Fitts and not by Mr. Pitts. Report of Committee on Amending the Constitution and Mis¬ cellaneous Provisions, to which was Ordinance ^3^, by Mr Spears of St. Clair, has instructed me to report favorably the accompanying substitute for said ordinance. The Committee was not unanimous, some of its members reserving the right to oppose the adoption of the ordinance. Under instructions from the committee, the chairman reports, for the information of the Convention, the facts showing the neces¬ sity for a Court House in the district affected, without recommen¬ dation as to the policy of adopting ordinances which are local in their operation, and within the province of the Legislature. St Clair County is divided into two parts by Back Bone tain which runs entirely across the county from east to west. I he two’portions into which it is thus divided are nearly equal in area and population, while the larger portion of the w^ealth of this coun¬ tv is in that portion which lies south of the mountain A greater portion of the litigation in the county originates m the territory south of the mountain, and a greater number of the parties and witnesses who attend the courts in St. Qair county are from that territory. The mountain is rugged and barren, and not inhabited. Immediately north of the mountain stretches a level country plain called “the flat woods,” which is also barren and uninhabited, arid which in wet weather is boggy and difficult of paspge. The roads over the mountain and through the “flat woods are almost im¬ passable, and the character of the country over which they run is of such character that the revenues of the country are insufficient to put them in good condition. The only railroad route between the portion of the county affected by this ordinance and the county seat is by way of Birmingham, a distance of 80 miles. There is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1251 no trade between the residents on the south side of the mountain and the county seat. Attendance upon courts is about the only business which takes people living on the south side of the moun¬ tain to the county seat. The people on both sides of the mountain seem to be practically united in the desire for a court house on the south side of the mountain. The above facts are stated upon information obtained from the reputable citizens of St. Clair county who have been before your committee. These gentlemen were all Democrats except Col. Spears, who introduced the ordinance. This fact is stated so that the Convention may be informed that the adoption of this or¬ dinance is desired by all the people and not by those of one political faith only. The committee has had before it letters from the Probate Judge and Circuit Clerk of St. Clair county, from the Solicitor of the Circuit which embraces that county, and from other prominent citizens of the county, among others Judge Inzer and Judge Greene, all recommending the adoption of this ordinance, if the Conven¬ tion sees fit to take up any matters of this kind. Respectfully submitted, J. M. Foster, Chairman. An Ordinance to provide for the establishment of a court house and jail at some point to be determined by an election by the people, in that portion of St. Clair which lies south and south¬ east of Back Bone mountains, and which is embraced in precincts numbered 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21, in said county. Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled : First—That it shall be the duty of the Probate Judge of St. Clair county to order an election to be held in precincts numbered 9^, 10, 11, lj2, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21 in St. Clair county, not later than sixty days after the ratification of the Constitution to be submitted to this Convention, for a vote of the qualified electors in said precincts upon the selection of a place within the territory embraced in said precincts, at which a court house and jail shall be erected and maintained. Officers for such election shall be appointed, and the election, in all things in accordance with the law governing general elections. Upon the ballot to be used at such election the name of all places to be voted on shall be printed, and the choice of the electors shall be indicated by a cross mark before the place of his choice. The votes cast at such election shall be canvassed, tabulated, returns thereof made, and counted in the same manner as is done in the elections for Sheriff 1252 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and other county officers. At the place receivinj? the highest number of votes at such election there shall be erected and main¬ tained a court house and jail for the trial of all cases and the trans¬ action of all legal business originating in said precincts 9, 10, 11, 12 , 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21. The venue of all actions and suits (other than such as are to be tried before Justices of the Peace) in which only residents of that portion of said St. Clair which lies south and southeast of Back Bone mountain, except as otherwise provided by law, shall be at the court house herein provided for. Provided, however, that .\shville, in St. Clair county, shall continue to be the county seat of said county until changed by vote of the qualified electors residing in that t)art of St. Clair county which lies north northwest of said Back Bone mountain. Second—The Court of County Commissioners of St. Clair county shall at its first regular meeting after the election provided for in Section 1 of this Ordinance take all necessary stcv)s and make all necessary orders to issue and sell bonds of St. Clair county to the amount of $10,000, the proceeds to be used onlv for the erection and equipment of such court house and jail, or to provide by other means a sufficient amount of money to erect a suitable court house and jail at the place which shall have l)een selected in accordance with said Section 1. and to pro]jerly equip and furnish the same with record books and other necessary equip¬ ments; provided, however, that if said Court of County Commis¬ sioners shall levy a tax for such purpose, such tax shall be levieci on all taxable property in said county, but all of such tax shall not be levied and collected in one year. And provided, further, that such court house and jail shall be com])leted in every way and shall be ready for the holding of court and the transaction of legal business on or before the first day of the Spring Term, 1903, of the Circuit Court of St. Clair county. Third—-The Sheriff, Probate Judge, Circuit Clerk. Register in Chancery, Pax Assessor, Tax Collector and Superintendent of Education of St. Clair county shall keep offices in the court house w’hich shall be built in accordance with the provisions of this or- dinancer The General Assembly at its first meeting after the ratification of the Constitution to be submitted to the people by this Convention, shall enact laws regulating the holding of Court at the court house provided for in this ordinances. ^ Fifth This ordinance shall be valid and effective if the Con¬ stitution which shall be framed by this Convention be ratified by the people. Otherwise, it shall be void. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1253 THIRTY-THIRD DAY MONTGOMERY, ALA., Saturday, June 29, 1901. The Convention met at 10 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjourn¬ ment, was called to order by the President and opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Lamar, as follows: Humbly and reverently we bow before Thee, O Lord our Maker and Redeemer, to render to Thee our praises for Thy con¬ tinued mercies, for Thy continued care of us. We thank Thee for the largeness and richness of Thy providence towards us. We thank Three for the provisions of Thy grace. We thank Thee for all the favorable conditions under which we live. We come to Thee this morning Lord to ask Thy blessing upon us in such measure that will enable us to voice our gratitude to Thee in our lives. May Thy servants, the officers and members of this Con¬ vention, receive such blessings from Thee as shall fit them for their places in Thy kingdom, and grant Lord that Thy providence may continue to be a shield above our people. May our people fear Thee. May they Avork righteousness and may we be indeed Thy happy people whose God is the Lord. We beseech Thee Lord that Thou wilt forgive our sins; wash away all our uncleanliness; guide us in all our ways and thoughts, and at last save us in Thy eternal kingdom, we ask it for the sake of Christ our Lord, Amen. The Secretary called the roll of delegates and 110 members responded to their names. Leaves of absence were granted as follows: Mr. Reynolds of Chilton for today; Mr. Altman of Sumter for today; Mr. Banks for the evening session today; Mr. McMillan of Wilcox for Mon¬ day; Mr. McMillan of Baldwin for today and Monda3y; Mr. Walk¬ er for today; Mr. Jones of Hale for today and Monday, Mr. Espy of Henry for today; Mr. Lowe of Lawrence for today; Mr. King for today and Monday; Mr. Wilson of Washington for Monday. The report of the Committee on the Journal was read, stating that the journal for the thirty-second day of the Convention had been examined and found correct, and the report Avas adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Secretary will call the roll of dele¬ gates for the introduction of resolution, ordinances, etc. Resolution No. 207 by Mr. Beddow: Resolved, That when this Convention adjourns on Wednes¬ day evening, July 3rd, that it adjourn to meet at 12 m., Monday, July 8th. 1254 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS on Convention q*^^stion, and to give us a chance to take the Fourth of r#»en1iit' ^ move that the rules be suspended and that the resolution be put upon its passage. the rules" ^ Convention refused to suspend Resolution No. 208, by Mr. Cornwall. r>ti ^^®oRed, That the time allowed each delegate for sDeakinp" on any one question be and is hereby limited to ten minufes and that unanimous consent must be obtained to extend the time. Referred to the Committee on Rules. Resolution No. 209, by Mr. Reynolds (Henry.) \'V hereas, there is a disposition to take up much time in de constitutional leavtag'’LgSa.t'l e^acZSs" ouT oTtTe JoS^tlo"? resolved, That when this Convention is in the T et^ w pending amendment should be left to the Legislature or not, that such amendment be referred to the J diciary Committee, with instructions that they pass upon thic; ?ud|meSt.“ ■" recommendation in accordance with their Referred to Committee on Judiciary. MR. SAMFORD (Pike) — I would like for the gentleman also L‘"o°?i. “ Judiciary Committee to go £”^0^5- ing on those questions. ^ pass the PRESIDENT-Proceed with the call. Ordinance 406 by Mr. Rogers (Sumter.) day o' ranua1-v"ima’' Alabama that after the first fil °\J®*i“3ry, 1903, no tax m excess of ten cents 001 npr terra other than an advalorem tax, shall be levied on fertilizers man"’ factured or sold in the State of Alabama. ^^^^“'zers manu- Referred to Committee on Taxation. Resolution No. 210 by Mr. Rogers (Lowndes.) Resolved, That the Convention remain in session until ? o clock p. m. and dispense with the afternoon Lsfon that fte "’“''c > anspension of the rules that the resolution may be put upon its immediate passage. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1255 MR. BROOKS—I move to amend by adding to it “this day.” tiAti PRESIDENT—The resolution is not before the Conven- suspension of the rules to place the resolution upon its immediate passage. Upon a vote being taken the rules were suspended, bv a vote oi sixty-eight ayes and twenty-eight noes. app “?„ly '»■ the resolution the PRESIDENT-It does by its terms apply to today. Ordinance No. 407, by Mr. Sanford: the Co^nstotToroflh^taTe"' the people of Alabama in Convention as¬ sembled, that the General Assembly be authorized and empower- f ° Constitution of the State by the enactment of laws which shall contain the proposed amendment or amendments and after the passage of such laws by a vote of the majority of all the members elected to each House of the General Assembly, the same shall be submitted to a vote of the people for their rati¬ fication or rejection at any time, other than that fixed for a gen¬ eral election in Alabama. Referred to the Committee on Legislative Department. Resolution No. 211, by Mr. Smith, M. M., (Autauga): Whereas, the office of Commissioner of Agriculture was orig¬ inally created for the benefit of the farming interest, and whereas the tax of 50 cents per ton on fertilizer was originally imposed for the alleged exclusive benefit of the farmer, and provide for inspection of ^rtilizer for the farmer’s protection, and whereas, said office of Commissioner of Agriculture has been changed by this Convention into the Commissioner of Agriculture and In¬ dustries, and where it is not just or fair that the burden of paying for said department should fall exclusively on the farmers of the State, therefore Be it resolved. That it is the sense of this Convention that the Legislature should reduce the tax on fertilizer to an amount not in excess of cost of inspection. Referred to the Committee on Taxation. Mr. Cunningham (Jefferson) here took the chair. MR. SPRAGINS—I desire to offer a petition by request, not to be read, but I ask that it be included in the stenographic report. There being no objection, it was so ordered, and the petition was as follows: 1256 OKFICIAI. Pkc iCi:i;i)l.\('.S Petition iVo, 9, introduced by retnie.'-t by Mr. Spragins (.Madison); To the Officers and Members of the .-M.iliaina Constitutional Convention; Humbly petitioning, the undersigned would respectfully state that he is a citizen of .-\labama and a tax i)ayer of Madison county therein, hence he feels at liberty to submit to your hoiu'rable l)ody such suggestions touching matters that you have been called together to consider, as in his judgment will tend to advance the material interests eif the St.ite ;ind her people. Profoundly impressed with the belief that .Mabama possesses natural resources and advantages which woidd ])lace her citizens among the most prosperous, the most influential and with attainments of the highest civili¬ zation of any other of our Republics, iirovided conditions are made fav¬ orable for their development and utilization, I am therefore led to suggest that your honorable body make such provisions in the organic law of the State as wall best tend to secure and maintain amicable and just relations between labor and capital herein, the same being the base of all human progress and the foundation of all human welfare and happiness. The right of the individual citizen to earn an honest living free from intimidation or undue influence from any source whatever, is, and should be so, held by all properly con.stituted authority in the State, as sacred as life itself, since on the exercise of that right the lives and happiness of dependent loved ones frequently depend. It should not be in the power of any one ever to jeopardize that right much less to dcjirive a citizen of it. I refer plainly and more specifically to the denial of that right and its frequent deprivation, at the hands of labor unions and labor leaders, when they demand and obtain the employment by any one of "only” union labor This demand is not infrequently successful through the silence of an intimi¬ dated press, and vitiated public sentiment; for these would otherwise pro¬ tect the freeman in the exercise of this right without the dictation of terms by others. “Equal rights for all, and special privileges to none” should be so just a maxim in the economy of domestic life, that no one could be found who would seek to interfere in its impartial operation. It is this privilege that places before the humblest in our land those incentives for noble action and effort as makes human progress possible. It is a standard that guides the motives and serves to uplift the struggling masses of mankind around us. A boycott from any organized source is a crime against societv, and should be classed along with the deeds of the highwayman and the mid¬ night robber. These latter hold up their victims and take their money by force, but the boycott often operates more wantonly and often more cruellv against its victims. Personal gain animates the highwayman and the rob¬ ber, while personal enmity most frequently actuates the leaders in a boy¬ cott. Not only IS the victim brought to face financial ruin at times, but in¬ nocent and dependent ones are deprived of the neces.saries of life. Such things should never be possible under any form of civilized government A strike at the command of an organization is likewise a crime against so- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1257 ciety, for it is well ni^^h impossible for a strike to occur without inflicting injuries on innocent ])ersons whom society is oi)liged to protect. Failing in which the ties of citizenship are loosened and respect for law and authority, tlie foundations of good government destroyed. Likewise a “lockout” or combine by employers to force employes to accept arbitrary wages that may be insufficient to provide an honest living is a crime against that right here¬ tofore alluded to, and should never be permitted to occur. A measure of compulsory arbitration provided in the organic law, that will prohibit strikes, lockouts and l) 0 ycotts, would tend to remedy and pre¬ vent the foregoing evils. Such a measure is only what is now applied to other citizens. None are permitted to take the righting of real or sui)posed wrong in their own hands, but are compelled, under proper penalties, to apply to the duty constituted courts of the land for that puri)ose; and no burden can be placed on, or wrong done to, either labor or ca})ital by putting these under the same remedial measures and civic discipline that governs all others in society. Respect for the foregoing principles constitutes the best safeguard of a good government, and no measure may be cotisidered too drastic that is necessary to preserve this among the people. Djeal justly by both, and place both under ecjual obligations to ju'eserve industrial peace and you will render a service to present and future generations greater than any words of mine can express. Praying for Divine Wisdom to guide you right in your de¬ liberations, and that you may act for the best interests of our beloved State, I am, Your most obedient servant, N. F. Thompson, Huntsville, Ala., June 26, 1901. Upon the call of the Standing- Committees, the Committee on Suffrage and Jilections submitted its report, as follows: Report of Committee on Suffrage and Elections. Mr, President: The Committee on Suffrage and Elections have requested that the following report be submitted: d'he Committee has read and considered with care the many resolutions and ordinances referred to it and have had the l^enefit of an extensive correspondence with leading men of other States ii])on the question of suffrage and elections. ^lany of them con¬ tain valuable suggestions and have been of great assistance in the important work assigned to us. Our main purpose has been to eliminate the venal and in¬ competent from the exercise of the elective franchise and not vio¬ late any of the provisions of the Constitution of the United States. We are of the opinion that the Fifteenth Amendment of the Con¬ stitution of the United States does not interfere with the sovereign right of the State to prescril^e the qualifications of voters, further OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 1258 than to orohibit discrimination on account of “race, color or pre- coSion of servitude,” rsrandu^d"; {o be atotaed necessitated the makinK of provisions new and d.f- Srent from those which are in our present Constitution. To eive full effect to the plan submitted by the Committee, it becanfe necessary to provide a temporary board of registra- It became T„n,,arv 1 1903 and to devolve upon the Legis- latme The duty to provide a permanent plan of registration to take effect on and after that date. We have spared neither time, labor nor study to frame a suit¬ able article upon the subject of elections an^d ^ with nleasure we state that no member of the Committee dissents from any of the provisions except upon sub-division 2 of Section 4 oTthe Article, Epon which there will be a minority report sub¬ mitted. We herewith return all ordinances and resolutions sub- mitted to us. APTirT-P. -. Suffrage and Elections. Section 1. Every male citizen of this State who is a citizen of the United States, 21 years old or upwards, not laboring under any of abilities named in this Article, and possessing the qualifications required by it, shall be an elector, and shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people. Sec. 2. To entitle a citizen to vote at any election by the people, he shall have resided in the State at least two years, in the county one year, and in the precinct or ward three months immediately preceding the elec¬ tion at which he offers to vote, and he shall have been duly registered as an elector, and shall have paid on or before the first day of February next preceding the date of the election at which he offers to vote, all poll taxes due from him for the year 1901, and for each subsequent year; provided, that any elector, who, within three months next preceding the date of the election at which he offers to vote, has removed from one precinct or ward to another precinct or ward in the same county, incorporated town or city shall have the right to vote in the precinct or ward from which he has so removed, if he would have been entitled to vote in such precinct or ward, but for such removal. Sec. 3. All elections by the people shall be by ballot, and all elections by persons in a representative capacity shall be viva voce. Sec. 4. The following male citizens of this State who are citizens of the United States, 21 years old or upwards, who, if their place of residence shall remain unchanged, will have, at the date of the next general elec¬ tion, the qualifications as to residence prescribed in Section 2 of this Ar- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1259 tide and who are not disqualified under Section 6 of this Article, shall, upon application, be entitled to register as electors prior to the first day of Janu¬ ary, 1903, namely: First—All who have honorably served in the land or naval forces of the United States in the War of 1812, or in the War with Mexico, or in any war with the Indians, or in the Civil War between the States, or in the war with Spain, or who honorably served in the land or naval forces of the Confederate States, or of the State of Alabama in the war between the States; or Second—The lawful descendants of persons who honorably served in the land or naval forces of the United States in the War of the American Revolution, or in the War of 1812, or in the War with Mexico, or in any war with the Indians, or in the Civil War between the States, or in the land or naval forces of the Confederate States; or Third—All persons of good character and who understand the duties and obligations of citizenship under a Republication form of government. Sec. 5. After the first day of January, 1903, the following persons, and no others, who, if their place of residence shall remain unchanged, will have, at the date of the next general election, the qualifications as to resi¬ dence prescribed in Section 2 of this Article, shall be qualified to register as electors. Provided, they shall not be disqualified under Section 6 of this Article. First—Those who, unless prevented by physical disability, can read and write any Article of the Constitution of the United States in the English language, and who, being physically able to work, have been regularly en¬ gaged in some lawful business or occupation, trade or calling for twelve months next preceeding the time they offer to register; or Second—^The owner in good faith, in his own right, or the husband of a woman who is the owner in good faith, in her own right, of forty acres of land situate in this State, upon which they reside; or the owner in good faith, in his own right, or the husband of any woman who is the owner in good faith, in her own right, of real estate situate in this State assessed for taxation at the value of $300 or more, or the owner in good faith, in his own right, or the husband of a woman who is the owner in good faith, in her own right, of personal property in this State assessed for taxation at $300 or more; provided, that the taxes due upon such real or personal prop¬ erty for the next year preceding the year in which he offers to register shall have been paid, unless the assessment shall have been legally contested and is undetermined. Sec. 6.—The following persons shall be disqualified both from register¬ ing and from voting, namely: All idiots and insane person; those who shall by reason of conviction of crime be disqualified from voting at the time of the ratification of this Constitution; and those who shall be convicted of treason, murder, arson, embezzlement, malfeasance in office, larceny, re¬ ceiving stolen property, obtaining property or money under false pretenses, OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS 1260 perjury subordination of perjury, robbery, assault with intent or rob, bur- Sa r^oJgery, bribery, assault and battery on the w.fe b.gamy, hvmg .n aiuSrrKdLy, incLt, rape, miscegenation, crime agamst nature, or any crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, or o any m amou rime’ or crime involving moral turpitude; also any person who shall be crv^cted Ts T vagrant of tramp, or of selling or offering to sell his vote or the vote of another, or of buying or offering to buy the vote of any election, or to procure the nomination or election of any person to any office Tr of suboring any witness or registrar to secure the registration of any person as an elector. Sec. 7 .-N 0 person shall be qualified to vote or participate in any pri¬ mary election, party conyention, mass meeting, or other method o par y mary e^e^t , P ^ j ^hall not possess the quahfi- < 0 , ,«’.lec.o„ or who shall he disou.lili.d under the provisions of this article from voting. Sec 8—No person, not registered and qualified as an elector under the pffvision of fhis article, shall yote at any State, county or municipal election general, local or special, held subsequent to the in 1902; but the proyisions of this article shall not apply to any election he prior to the general election in 1902. Sec 9-Any elector whose right to vote shall be challenged for any legal cause before an election officer shall be required to swear or affirm haftS matter of the challenge is untrue before his vote shall be received l„d Iny Zl who wilfully swe.r. o, affirms f.ls.ly .h.r.fo shall bo gu.l.y of perjury. Sec 10—The General Assembly shall provide by law for the registra tion after the first day of January, 1903, of all qualified electors. Until the 'first day of January, 1903, all electors shall be registered under a In accordance with the requirements of this Section, as follows: First-Registration shall be conducted, in each county, by a board of three reputable and suitable persons resident in the county, who shall no 1 , IH .nv elective office during their term, to be appointed within 60 days Scatiorof this Consti^^ by th. Governor. And,.or and vif^^^ritaS "rin-t mem^hr:? .h.c/d: rgSSnre'an^ ZZZZ ^*po.„.men, shai, alTd.sbur’sfd h:*r;etrSr,.’%dges^''„“ai' ^mir. Ly's ..tendance upon .he sessions of the Board. Before entering upon the performance of the duties of his office each regiawar :h:r.ake .he same oath r.,.ired of .he ^ State, which oath may be administered by any person CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1261 to administer oaths. The oath shall be in writing and subscribed by the registrar and filed in the office of the Probate Judge of the county. Second—Prior to the first day of August 1902, the Board of Registrars in each county shall visit each precinct at least once, and oftener if neces¬ sary, to make a complete registration of all persons entitled to register, and remain there at least one day from 8 o’clock in the morning until sunset. They shall give at least twenty days’ notice of the time when and the place in the precinct where they will attend to register applicants for registration, by bills posted at five or more public places in each elec¬ tion precinct, and by advertisement in a newspaper, if there be one, published in the county, once a week for three consecutive weeks. Upon failure to give such notice, or to attend any appointment made by them in any pre¬ cinct, they shall, after like notice, fill new appointments therein; but the time consumed by the board in completing such registration shall not exceed sixty working days in each county, except that in counties in which there is any city of 8,000 inhabitants or over the board may remain in session, in addition to the sessions hereinabove prescribed, for not more than three successive weeks in each of said cities; and thereafter the board may sit from time to time in each of the cities not more than one week in each month, and except that in the county of Jefferson the board may hold ad¬ ditional sessions, of not exceeding five consecutive days duration for each session, in any town or city of 1,000 or more and less than 8,000 inhabitants. No person shall be registered except at the county site or in the precinct in which he resides. The registrar shall issue to each person registered a cer¬ tificate of registration. 'X'hird_The Board of Registrars shall register no person between the first day day of August, 1902, and the Friday next preceding the day of the election in November, 1902. On Friday and Saturday next preceding the day of the election in November, 1902, they shall sit in the court house of each county during such days, and shall register all applicants having the qualifications prescribed by Section Two of this Article, and not disqualified under Section 5, who shall have reached the age of 21 years after the first day of August, 1902, or who shall prove to the reasonable satisfaction of the Board that by reason of physical disability or unfavorable absence from the county, they had no opportunity to register prior to the first day of August 1902; and shall on such days register no other persons. When there are two or more Court Houses in one county, the Registrars may sit during such two days at either of such Court Houses they may select, but shall give ten days’ notice by bills posted at each of the other Court Houses, designating the Court House at which they will so sit. Fourth The Board of Registrars shall hold sessions at the Court House of their respective counties during the entire third week in November, 1902, and for six working days next prior to the 20th day of December, 1902, during which sessions they shall register all persons applying who possess the qualifications prescribed in Sections 2 and 4, and who shall not be disqualified under Section 6 of this Article. In counties where there are two or more Court Houses, the Board of Registrars may elect at which Court House they will hold such sessions. The Board of Registrars shall 1262 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS give notice of the time and place of such sessions by posting notices at each Court House in their respective counties and at each voting place and at three other public places in the county, and by publication once a week for two consecutive weeks in a newspaper, if one be published in tion, and to take testimony touching and such publication to be commenced as early as practicable in the first week in November, 1902; Provided, that a failure on the part of the Registrars to conform to the provisions of this Section as to notices to be given shall not invalidate any registration made by them. Fifth—The Board of Registrars shall have power to examine, under oath or affirmation, all applicants for registration, and to take testimony touching the qualifications of such applicants; each member of such Board is authorized to administer the oath to be taken by the applicants and wit¬ nesses, which shall be in the following form, and subscribed by the person making it, and preserved by the Board, namely: ‘T solemnly swear (or affirm) that in the matter of the application of - for registration as an elector, I will speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.” Any person who, upon examination, makes any wilfully false statement in reference to any material matter touching the qualifications of any appli¬ cants for registration, shall be guilty of perjury. Sixth—The action of the majority of the Board of Registrars shall be the action of the Board. Any person denied registration shall have the right to appeal, within thirty days after such denial, by filing a petition in a Cir¬ cuit Court or court of like jurisdiction held for the county in which he seeks to vote, to have his qualifications as an elector determined. Upon filing the petition the Clerk of the Court shall give notice thereof to any solicitor authorized to represent the State in said County, whose duty it shall be to appear and defend against the petition on behalf of the State. Upon such trial, the court shall charge the jury only as to what constituted the quali¬ fications that entitled the applicant to become an elector at the time he ap¬ plied for registration, and the jury shall determine the weight and effect of the evidence and return a verdict. From the judgment rendered an ap¬ peal will lie to the Supreme Court in favor of the petitioner, to be taken within thirty days. Final judgment in favor of the petitioner shall entitle him to registration as of the date of his application to the Registrars, Seventh—The Secretary of State shall, at the expense of the State, have prepared and furnished to the Registrars and Probate Judges in the several counties a sufficient number of registration books, and of blank forms of certificates of registration and of oaths and of the notices required to be given by the Registrars. The cost of the publication in newspapers of the notices required to be given by the Registrars shall be paid by the State, the bills therefor to be rendered to the Secretary of State and ap¬ proved by him. Sec. 11. The Board of Registrars in each county shall, on, or before the 1st day of February, 1903, file in the Probate Court of their county a complete list, sworn to by them, of all persons registered in their county, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1263 with the precinct or ward in which each of such persons reside set oppo¬ site the name of such person, and shall also file a like list in the office of the Secretary of State. The Judge of Probate shall, on or before the 1st day of March, 1903, cause to be made from such list, in duplicate, in the books furnished by the Secretary of State, an alphabetical list by precincts of the persons shown by the list of the Registrars to have been registered in the county, and shall file one of such alphabetical lists in the office of the Secretary of State, for which services by the Probate Judges compensa¬ tion shall be provided by the General Assembly. The Judges of Probate shall keep both the original list filed by the Registrars and the alphabetical list made therefrom as records in the Probate Court of the county. Unless he shall become disqualified under the provisions of this Article, any one who shall register prior to the 1st day of January, 1903, shall re¬ main an elector during life, and shall be required to re-register only in case of a change of residence, on production of his certificate. The certificate of the Registrars or of the Probate Judge or of the Secretary of State shall be sufficient evidence to establish the fact of such life registration. Such certificate shall be issued free of charge to the elector, and the General As¬ sembly shall provide by law for the renewal of such certificate when lost, mutilated or destroyed. Sec. 12. From and after the 1st day of January, 1903, any applicant for registration may be required to state under oath, to be administered by the Registrar, or by any person authorized by law to administer oaths, where he lived during the five years next preceding the time at which he applies to register, and the name or names that he was known by during that period, and the name or names of his employer or employers, if any, during such period. Any applicant for registration who refuses to state such facts, or any of them, shall not be entitled to register, and any person so offering to register who wilfully makes a false statement in regard to such matters or any of them shall be guilty of perjury. Sec. 13.—In the trial of any contested election, and in proceedings to investigate any election, no person other than a defendant shall be allowed to withhold his testimony on the ground that he may criminate himself or subject himself to public infamy; but such person shall not be prose¬ cuted for any offense arising out of the transaction concerning which he testified, but may be prosecuted for perjury committed on such examination. Sec. 4. The General Assembly shall pass laws, not inconsistent with this Constitution, to regulate and govern elections, and all such laws shall be uniform throughout the State; and shall provide by law for the manner of holding elections and of ascertaining the result of the same, and shall provide general registration laws, not inconsistent with the provisions of this Article, for the registration of all qualified electors from and after the first day of January, 1903. The General Assembly shall also make pro¬ vision by law, not inconsistent with this Article, for the regulation of pri¬ mary elections and for punishing frauds at the same, but shall not make primary elections compulsory. _ 1264 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Sec, IS. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass adequate laws giving protection against the evils arising from the use of intoxicating liquors at all elections. Sec. 16. Electors shall in all cases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, or while going to or returning therefrom. Sec. 17. Returns of elections for all civil officers who are to be com¬ missioned by the Governor, except Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, Attorney General, and Sup¬ erintendent of Education, and for the members of the General Assembly, shall be made to the Secretary of State. Sec. 18. The poll tax mentioned in this Article shall be one dollar and fifty cents upon each male inhabitant of the State, over the age of twenty- one years, and under the age of forty-five years, who would not now be exempt by law. Such poll tax shall become due and payable on the first day of October in each year and become delinquent on the first day of the next succeeding February, but no legal process nor any fee or commission shall be allowed for the collection thereof. The Tax Collector shall make returns of poll tax collections separate from other collections. Sec. 19. If any section of this Article shall become inoperative and void by reason of the decision of any court of competent jurisdiction, the Gen¬ eral Assembly shall have power, and it is hereby authorized, to remedy the defect in such section pointed out by such adjudication, by a two-thirds vote of all the members of each house of the General Assembly; provided, that the sections of this Article unaffected by such decision shall remain unchanged. Upon any other section becoming inoperative by any subse¬ quent adjudication of such court, the General Assembly shall have authority to remedy the defect in like manner as hereinabove prescribed. Mr. White of the committee submitted the following- MINORITY REPORT. Mr. President: The undersigned, members of the Committee on Suffrage and Elections, beg leave to dissent from that part of the report of said committee which recommends the adoption of the second sub-division of Section 4 of the Article reported by said committee, which reads as follows: “The lawful descendants of persons who honorably served in the land or naval forces of the United States in the War of the American Revolution, or in the War of 1812, or in the War with Mexico, or in any war with the Indians, or in the Civil War be¬ tween the States, or in the land or naval forces of the Confederate States, or of the State of Alabama in the War between the States.'’ CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1265 We are of opinion that the above clause, on its face, violates the Federal Constitution, which we have taken an oath to sup¬ port. It undertakes, by indirect means, to deny or abridge the right to vote to citizens of the United States, on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude, which is forbidden by the Fifteenth Amendment to that instrument. This is done by conferring the right to vote upon a class, viz., descendants of soldiers, this class including practically all of the white, and excluding practically all of the negro race. The clause quoted does not erect a standard of qualifications applicable to both races, but establishes an arbitrary standard, which, considered in connection with the history of the country, confers the right of suffrage upon members of the white race (who are descendants of such soldiers) and denies it to members of the black race, who are not such descendants. It does not prescribe a qualification bearing any proper rela^ tion to the capacity of the voter to understand and discharge the responsibilities of the elective franchise, but fixes an arbitrary status, depending solely upon his descent from an ancestry over which he had and has no control, and which is impossible of at¬ tainment by any exertion on his part. We submit that the test required is not a rule or condition to which all citizens similarly situated may conform. This, we understand from the decisions of the United States Supreme Court is necessary to make it valid. For these reasons we believe this clause to be violative of the 15th amendment to the Federal Constitution, in its necessary op¬ eration, without reference to its administration. It can only be administered in one way, and can affect, materially, only the two classes established by it. By adopting this provision we invite an attack upon our suf¬ frage plan through the courts, which may declare it void, and also, give Congress an opportunity to reduce our representation in the Lower House, and our vote in the electoral college, and it seems that the minority are not alone in the apprehension that something of this kind may occur. The committee itself has expressed its want of confidence in the validity of this scheme, by recommending the adoption of Sec¬ tion 19, which provides that if any section of the article should become inoperative and void by reason of the decision of any court of competent jurisdiction the Legislature might remedy the de¬ fect caused by such decision—an unusual and extraordinary con¬ ception. Will any member of the committee, or any other candid man, maintain that this scheme is not intended to discriminate in favor of one race and against the other? 1266 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Aside from the Constitutional objections, there are other weighty reasons why this provisions should not be in our Con¬ stitution : First—It establishes a permanent, hereditary, governing class, which is undemocratic, unrepublican, and un-American. Second—It is not in keeping with the dignity of a progres¬ sive, just and enlightened State. Third—It insults the white men of Alabama and proclaims their inferiority to the negro by requiring of them, as suffragans, a lower standard of capacity and intelligence than that required by the negro. Fourth—It is impracticable of administration, owing to the impossibility of establishing, with any certainty, descent from re¬ mote ancestors. The field of speculation into which we are car¬ ried opens wide the doors of fraud and perjury. Fifth—It is not necessary. The ballot can be secured to the honest and capable without resorting to this subterfuge. Sixth—Out of respect for the opinion of thoughtful and fair minded men everywhere, we ought not to incorporate in our fun¬ damental law this unwise and questionable scheme. It will re¬ tard the investment of capital, and check the flow of immigration to our State. Alabama should take no backward step. Seventh — The adoption of a fair and honest suffrage plan would secure the sympathy and confidence of our fellow citizens in every section of the Union. Eighth—By accepting this novel device we are launching the ship of state upon unexplored seas. We had better pursue the course our fathers traveled and use the helm with which they steered. We adhere firmly to the Jacksonian Democratic doctrine of equal rights to all, special privileges to none. Hence, we recommend that the aforesaid subdivision 2 of Section 4 be stricken out. Respectfully submitted, Frank S. White, S. H. Dent, George P. Harrison, William C. Oates. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will call the attention of the Chairman of the committee to the fact that the rules do not apply to the printing of reports, and it will be necessary to have a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. 1901 1267 motion, if the committee desires the report of the committee to be printed. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—We desire the report to be laid upon the table and printed, and taken up at such time hereafter as may l)e the pleasure of the Convention. MR. LOMAX—How many copies did the sfentleman pro- Vide for? » R'lR. COLRMAN (Greene)—Five hundred. MR. LOMAX—I would make it a thousand. MR. SI^RACjGINS — A question of inquiry. How many copies will he printed.^ I w'oiild suggest that a thousand copies be printed so that there may l)e six co])ies for each nieinl)er of the Convention. MR. COLLMAN (Greene)—The committee has no prefer¬ ence and accepts the proposition. THh. I^RESIDENT — The g'entleman moves that a thou¬ sand copies he printed and six copies delivered to each memher. MR. \\ HITE I suppose that includes the minority report? MR. C(^LEMAN (Greene)—My motion covers both. I think it is hut just to the whole committee to say that we never heard the minority report read to us as a minority report, though we have heard it frequently in the speeches before the committee. MR. OATES—It is because we wrote the report last nig'ht, and did not have an opportunity of showing it to the committee. MR. PROCTOR—I move to amend the motion that a thou¬ sand copies I)e printed, and make it tw^o thousand. It costs but very little more for two thousand than for one. MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)—I w^ould like to know about what will be the additional cost of a thousand copies? THE PRESIDENT—The gentleman from Jackson says that the cost will be very little more. MR. PROCTOR—But very little, it is just the cost of the paper and the work to do it— MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—The Chairman of the Committee has stated that he has no objection; whatever wdll facilitate a public understanding. MR. SAM FORD—I ask that the further amendment be made to double the amount given the members of the Convention ; that will be twelve for each member instead of six. 1268 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS THE PRESIDENT—The Secretar}' suggests if the number given each member be doubled, it will not give enough for the Secretary’s office. MR. SAMFORD—I withdraw that then. MR. PROCTOR—I move that we give twelve coi)ies to each member. That will give the Secretary one hundred and forty- four copies to lie on the desk. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I accept the amendment. The motion, as amended, was carried. AIR. PARKER (Elmore)—I desire to offer a short resolu¬ tion. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will call attention of the Convention to the resolution, as it is probable a motion will be submitted to place the resolution upon its passage. The resolution was read as follows: Resolution No. 212, by Mr. Parker (Elmore); Resolved, That the privileges of the floor of this Convention are hereby extended to Honorable J. J. Sullivan of Pensacola, Florida, who is visiting the Convention to extend the greetings of West Florida to the Convention on the hearty spirit of annexation that it has manifested. MR. WHITE—I move to amend that the vote be taken by a rising vote. Py a rising vote, the rules were suspended, one hundred and nine members voting for, and none against the motion; upon a further vote being taken the resolution was unanimously adopted. THE PRESIDENT—The Chair will state to the Conven¬ tion that a motion was entered to reconsider the vote whereby section 1 of the ordinance reported by the Committee on Taxation was adopted, and it was a special order immediately after the reading of the journal on yesterday, but the Chair failed to call the attention of the Convention to the pendency of the motion. It seems to the Chair that that question ought to be disposed of by the Convention in some way. AIR. BROWNE—I move to lay that motion upon the table. AIR. SOLLIE—Withdraw your motion and let me make a statement which I think will settle the matter. I am not going to press it on the Convention, but desire to make a motion before the House to take it from the House more gracefully perhaps, than a motion to table. MR. BROWNE—With that under.standing, I withdraw the motion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1269 MR. SOLLIE — I move an indefinite postponement of the question, to be taken up hereafter by unanimous consent if it is desired to be taken up. And the motion to indefinitely postpone consideration was carried. THE PRESIDENT—The regular order will be the considera¬ tion of the report of the Committee on Taxation. When the Convention adjourned on yesterday, we had under consideration Section 4, and the pending question was a motion entered by the gentleman from Hale to lay upon the^ table the section as reported by the Committee. The gentleman from Hale. MR. deCiRAFFENREID—I want to ask unanimous consent of the Convention to be allowed to withdraw the demand for the ayes and noes upon the motion. MR. PROWNE—T ask also, with the consent of the gentle¬ man from Hale, unanimous consent to withdraw the motion for the previous (juestion. THE PRESIDENT—We had probably better dispose of one at a time. Is there objection— MR. COFER—I object. 4'HE PRESIDENT—The question is u])on the motion to table Section 4, and" upon that the ayes and noes have been demanded and ordered by the Convention. MR. COFER—I will withdraw the objection. MR. deGRAFFENREID — I now withdraw my motion to table if I am in order to do so. By unanimous consent the motion to table was withdrawn. MR. BROWNE—I now ask unanimous consent to withdraw the motion for the previous question. I desire m that conntction to state that upon 3 esterday when the gentleman from 1 alladega Mr. Graham, offered his amendment, and made his aigumtnt, predicated upon the estimates of the Auditor, which were tonfess- eeWy erroneous, he afterwards moved the previous que,stion upo his'own amendment, which, if carried, wouh have dtFan ed the Climittee or anv member of it from the privilege of showing: he error of the estimate. After that was voted down, /lenianded the previous question upon the other amendment, which 1 now desire to withdraw. mm? PT?F«;TDFNT — The sfentleman from Talladega asks unanTmoi consent to withdraw Bre demand for the previous question. Is there objection? The Chair hears none. 1270 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS MR. deGRAFFENREID—I offer an amendment to the sec¬ tion. The amendment was read as follows: Amend Section 4 by striking out the word “sixty-five” and adding- in lieu thereof the word “seventy,” and add at the end of the section the following: “The General Assembly shall, at each session, set a])art a suffi¬ cient amount of such levy, to pay the interest on the public debt, and the proceeds of the levy so set apart shall be used for no other purpose.’’ MR. deGRAFFENREID—I object to the report of the Com¬ mittee so far as the section which is sought to be amended is concerned, because I was afraid that in the desire to reduce the taxes of the State the Convention might go too far, if a limit of sixty-five cents on the hundred dollars was placed upon the Gen¬ eral Assembly. The gentleman from Talladega, when he read his report, gave us certain figures that he had received from some officer in the Auditor’s Department, and certain estimates that he had received from the various Probate Judges of the State, and upon them he based the statement that this year, and next year, and perhaps the next, the State of Alabama could safely go upon a six and one-half mill basis. If this were the Legislature instead of a Constitutional Con¬ vention, I would, in the light of those estimates, unhesitatingly vote for the reduction, but we are now adopting a Constitution which shall be a limitation upon the future action of legislators, and I call the Convention’s attention to the fact that these esti¬ mates are based upon valuations fixed at a period of inflation, which is greater now than it has ever been in the history of the world. Stocks and bonds and other personal property that are quoted upon the floors of the various stock exchanges of the world, are selling higher than they have ever sold before in the history of the world, and, as I have stated, we have reached the period of the greatest inflation in the world’s history. We are at the flood tide. There must come the ebb, if history repeats itself. The question is, when the ebl) comes, when the period of depres¬ sion comes, when we are over the present period of inflation, are we very sure that six and one-half mills on the dollar will be suf¬ ficient to mett the requirements of the State? We have lived under a limitation of seven and one-half mills, and during that period we have gone through periods of depression and periods of inflation, and we have been able to meet the oI)ligations of the State and the demands that have been made upon the State’s treas¬ ury, but at one period, as was stated on this floor on yesterday, the (lovernor of Alabama was required to borrow five or six hun¬ dred thousand dollars, in clear violation of law, upon warrants to be drawn upon the treasury, in New York, to meet the tem¬ porary demands of the State. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 1271 Ou^ht we not to l)e cautious when such (loul>ts exist as are shown to exist in the minds of some of the members of this Con¬ vention.^ W e are honored with the presence of two ex-Governors of the State of Alabama upon this floor. One of them has said that this situation burned into him a perfect knuuded^e of the financial condition of the State, and yet on yesterday, you found both of those men, who are taxpayers, and interested as much as any other citizen of the State in this reduction, voting’ against the reduction out cjf respect to what they considered the demands of the situation. You have been furnished with figures emanating, it is said, from some officer, or some clerk, in the Auditor’s department. The chairman of the committee has said to you that the Auditor of the State should have some knowledge of these matters, l)Ut has any one undertaken to show to you that this ))ro])osed reduction meets the ap])roval of the Auditor? Has any one undertaken to say to you that it meets the approval of the State Treasurer? Ought not tliis Convention to go slow when the statement is made to it that not only tlie ex-Governors who are here in this Conven¬ tion, and who should know something of the financial require¬ ments of the State, but also the State Treasurer and the State Auditor doubt exceedingly the ability of the State in the future to meet all the demands upon the Treasury, if this reduction is made. A sentinunt has developed itself in this Convention. There was a matter before this Convention for consideration recently, the reduction of the tag tax upon fertilizers, and argument was made against the adoption of that provision, that it was one that should be cared for by the General Assembly. According to my recollection, the chairman of the committee Avho now offers this reduction, stated in an argument against it, that if he was a mem¬ ber of the General Assembly, he would vote for the reduction, saying he was in svmpathy with the movement, but took the po¬ sition that it was a matter that should not be incorporated in a Constitution, but should be relegated to the General Assembly for action. You were told upon that occasion, b\ a member of the General Assembly, that a bill passed the lower House at its last session, looking to a reduction of the tag tax, but it died in the Senate WYll, gentlemen, in this estimate that is furnished bv the Committee on Taxation, S75,000 is placed as coming into the Treasury annually from this tag tax; $20,000 trom the sale of school lands, and I state it to be a fact that the General As- sembly and Governor Johnston raked this State wdth a fine tooth coml)'to find things upon which thev could place J'cense tax, in order to meet the requirements of the State. Well, gentle¬ men, if we are to have a tax, let it be a direct tax that a man can see, rather than an indirect tax about which he may not he so well informed. 1272 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS Now, Mr. President, believing as I do, that there was danger ahead, I voted ag-ainst the reduction of this tax, by the Constitu¬ tion, to six and one half mills, but out of respect to the opinion of many g-entlemen who are on that committee, and who believe that a reduction can be had, I have introduced this resolution, that the tax limit shall be seven mills instead of seven and a half. So far as the latter part of the amendment which I have offered is concerned, I will not discuss it, l)ecause whether we fix the limit at six and a half mills or whether it be fixed at seven mills, I am satisfied that every member of this Convention would desire to require the General Assembly to set aside, out of the taxes levied, a sufficient amount of money to meet the interest accruinj^ upon the bonded indebtedness of the State of Alabama. MR. MALONPv—Mr. President, I wish to say a few words ag-ainst the amendment. I wish to state from a practical business standpoint, and as a school man, I do not think any gentleman on this floor has done more for the common schools that I have. I believe that I am as familiar with their needs and their require¬ ments as any one. I have been not only on the Board of Trustees of the city schools, but the country schools as well. I wish to speak, not as coming from a county, or from a section of the country that possibly would be affected less by higher rates of taxation, but I wish to discuss it from practically the same point that the gentleman from Talladega, Mr. Graham, discussed it. As I understand the working of the sixty-five cent rate I be¬ lieve it will give more money to the common schools of the coun¬ try than under the seventy-five cent plan. If I did not believe that I certain!}' would not favor it. Under the ])roposition sub¬ mitted to us by the Committee on Taxation, there may be a pro¬ vision in the article on taxation, I do not know whether it will carry or not, and do not wish to be considered as favoring it in its entirety, but I believe on a sixty-five cent rate, that possiblv we would be allowed the ten cents under the working of that proposition, the entire ten cents if adopted to be devoted to the school fund. My county would not be affected, because we would work it out and we would get just as much one way as the other, ))Ut I wish to rise above local position. Ten cents on the hundred of course would l)ring more in some counties but it is pre])osterous to su])])ose that the entire ten cents ])aid into the State fund will finds its way back into the school fund. I was inclined to oppose the sixty-five cents without investigating it, irpon the grouncl that I was not familiar with the figures, but I am assured by a meml>er of the sub-committee, who is a practical business man, that he has marie a careful investigation of the facts, as fully as he would upon any business proposition coming before him, and that there would be a margin at sixty-five cents of nearly ten cents to cover any deficiency. He assures me that it would actually be safe to reduce CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKNTION, 1901 1273 it half as much more, l)ut this additional amount is left to cover any danger. Now I will not argue it except right square out on the school question. I come from a county, from a section, that has more children than any section of the State in the counties west of here, where tri])lets are born, and it is almost an exce])ti(m there are not tw'ins in the family. Therefore we get more money out of it than anybody else. We are interested in it, but so far as the schools are concerned, I am as confident as anything in the world that this w'ill ])ut the money into the schools.^ W’hen it gets into the Legislature, some of it wdll go there, a.nd some will not go there. ILit the practical workings of it are what J ])ro]>ose to con¬ sider. The special taxation, if adopted in a jju'oj^er form, will lead to an increased assessment of values. There is no (juesti(jn al)out that. I will not argue that longer. Nobody wdll denv that when w'e get to values at home, we will bring them out a little closer than when we are not interested in them. The gentleman who gives me these figures is from a community that voluntarily al- low\s itself to be taxed, and the tax is paid without ])rotest, 25 cents on the $100 for school purposes wLen only a protest w^ould prevent the tax from being collected. That shows he is not prejudiced against schools but is looking at it from the standi)oint of a cool business proposition. Now as to our ])romises, I pro¬ pose to stand by the promises w^e made not only because w^e made them but because they are right and I still insist that every one of them is right. It was demanded of us to do something for the school, I mean the common public schools that the ])eople of a community are obliged to go to. The larger schools w'ill take care of themselves and there is no use about discussing that. We want to be able when we go back home to say “Here is some¬ thing w^e have done that will benefit you. If we had no higher motive than that, that would be sufficient, but it is our duty and we have a chance to say to some of them, “Here is something that gives an opportunity to your child to improve himself.’' We no doubt wdll adopt something that will require an educational qualification for suffrage and that I am in favor of. I always ob¬ ject to putting a premium on ignorance and when we do disfran¬ chise anybody in that line w^e ought to be able to say to them, “While you may be disfranchised, here is a school for your chil¬ dren that they may be educated. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—My duties in committees have been such that I regret not having had an opportunity to give the close and earnest study to this matter that the dignity of the proposi¬ tion calls for. It seems to me it is a question of the greatest importance and one that ought to be acted on only wdth a certain knowdedge of 1274 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS the propriety of the action. Reading, however, the report of the Committee alone, I am induced from the figures there set out to believe that it is dangerous to reduce this rate of taxation any at all. Among the things that made an impression U])on me in earliest life was the old story of the calculation of the milk maid and from that time down to this I have seen theorists trip in tlie grass and the pail of milk upon which they builded their theories mingle in the dirt—gone in an instant. I have never yet seen any man, however, skillful he might be, who could properly figure upon the unexpected contingencies that attend every transaction in life, the simple proposition of a trip upon a railroad, the con¬ struction of a house or the management of a nation. There are always those uncertainties, those unexpected contingencies that no man can foresee, and it is the failure to properly foresee these unexpected things that leads us into disaster. Take the figures of the Committee, and what are thev? They ^ that the collections exceed the expenses to the extent' of $58,- OTO. By figuring up the unforeseen contingencies and extraor¬ dinary expenses we have had to pay they say there will be $279,- 000. So assuming there will never be any other unforeseen ex¬ penses or other extraordinary obligations we will have $279,000 of surplus upon the present basis if values continue as now and if the legislative requirements as to license taxes can be maintained. But, Mr. President, four years ago if these gentlemen had been figuring they would have assured us most absolutely that today we would have that $279,000 in our Treasury. I don’t be¬ lieve that next year or the year after we will have another Con¬ stitutional Convention. We may not in some years have to make ajipropriations to the normal schools. In some \'ears w'e won’t have the expenses of the Legislature, but as surely as time comes around the unexpected and extraordinary obligations that have arisen in the past from time to time will rise in the future and if any of those extraordinary occurrences take place, we will find that the calculations of the Committee have left a margin of only $58,000 to meet them, and that based, as I have said, upon an ab¬ solute certainty which they seem to assume, that not only will values not decrease, but that they will increase. In the calcula¬ tion they also assume that there will be a reduction upon the in¬ terest of the bonded indebtedness of the State; and so there will probably unless this Convention makes the income from which creditors may expect to receive their interest and the payment of their bonds so narrow and of so doubtful character as to destroy confidence in the credit of the State. But the very minute that we (irophesy that we can get through on so many dollars and so many cents, when we fix it so that if our prophecies come true we barely wu‘11 meet our obligations and if our prophecies fail in a single year there may be default, our creditors will not indulge in the optomistic views that we have 1275 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901 taken and will prefer, if they can get them, securities at the same rate but with a greater margin of security. I believe at the present rate of taxation we can negotiate our bonded indebtedness as low as three and a half per cent,, but the very minute you reduce the margin and make the credit of the Mate doulitful we impose upon ourselves a larger l)urden in the interest rate. Mr President, we are all more or less familiar with calcu- ations based on future contingencies. Most of us. at any rate, have undertaken to build houses and any man who has ever un¬ dertaken to build a house knows that no human being can calcu¬ late for unexpected contingencies connected with it. Now of the two problems which is the more difficult? In the construction of a l)uilding you have men who have made a study of that subject for life, they know and can calculate every piece of timber, every hour of work and approximately every nail that must go into it. They have the means of ascertaining to the fraction of a dollar if human capacity were sufficiently definite and accurate, what the building will cost. ^I hex’ haxe been train¬ ed in that business and no other and vet with that experience there is not one in the United States that I have ever seen or heard of that can make the calculation and make it accurately. And the calculation is short on one side and one side onlv. I never heard of an estimate of construction being larger than the actual cost. Now is it lack of skill? Not at all. Is it lack of certainty as to the duty before them? Not at all. It is simply because there is in all human transactions those unforeseen contingencies, those extraordinary expenditures, as the committee says, that no man can foresee and no man can take into calculation. Now, if we have a period of depression, if values were to decrease and busi¬ ness interests were to become such that they could no longer stand the burden of the privilege taxes that are imposed now and imposed expressly for the purpose of ])reventing a deficit in the State treasury, then we would meet a contingency that we have not foreseen, and we would be in a position where there would be no possible remedy. It seems to me therefore that the question is not whether we shall reduce taxation at present but the question is shall we tie our hands upon the faith of a belief in the infalibility of the fig¬ ures of the committee? Shall we put ourselves in a condition where if unforeseen contingencies arise this State must default in its obligations? If we have our limit of the rate of taxation as it is, there is no reason why the whole of that should be imposed. It is true it is said legislators will spend any amount of money that is in the treasury and probably they will, but on the other hand my experience is that they are sensitive about increasing taxation 1276 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS and if they can be trusted about anythin^, they can l)e trusted never to levy greater taxation than necessity requires. As I calculate on the report of the committee, it is nothing more than this: That the indebtedness due to the btate is col¬ lected two months before is obligations mature. If, therefore, the circumstances remain the same and the income remains the same we can always meet those obligations. We can always pay so long as conditions remain unchanged. As a matter of fact we owe six hundred and seventy odd thousand dollars and we have that much to pay but that surplus in the treasury is the suri)lus of words and not of money. For these reasons I am for not disturbing the rate l)Ut for leaving it for the Legislature to reduce it whenever it is possible. I believe they will reduce it when they can. They have done it in the past and I do not believe in fettering them for fifty vears to come on the idea that the figures of the committee can never fail, that there can be no contingency, no extraordinary expendi¬ ture ever under the present circumstances. 1 believe it will I)e unwise for the Convention to reduce the present limit and I shall regret to see even a half mill taken from it. MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—I regret very much this morn¬ ing my physical condition as I had desired to present to the Con¬ vention the motives that influenced us in bringing in this report. The remarks of the delegate from Talladega (Mr. Graham) yes¬ terday imi)Utcd to the Committee that they had selfish or personal desires to sustain this report because it was their rei)ort. I desire to state to the Convention e.xactly how we proceeded: \\ hen we came to consider Section 4 of the present Constitution and came upon the language that the General Assembly shall not ha\e the power to levy in one year a greater rate of taxation than three- quarters of 1 per cent, on the value of the taxable property in the State, we also had before us this i)rovision in the Democratic ])latform, that there shall be inserted in such Constitution a pro¬ vision limiting the rate of taxation by State, counties and muni¬ cipalities and* that such rate of taxation shall not exceed the rate fixed by the present Constitution but a hnver rate shall be fixed if practicable. Having these two ])ropositions before us. impelled as we were in the discharge of our duty, we undertook to inves¬ tigate to see whether or not these demands of the platform could be complied with. In our first estimate we wrote down the word certainty. Going over the question carefully it was the conclu¬ sion of the Committee that we could safely fix the tax rate at six mills, but in order to allow room for contingencies which seemed to be apprehended by some of the delegates to the Convention, we raised it to six and a half mills, giving the one-half mill to meet whatever contingencies might arise. The Committee had no desire in this respect so far as I am aware. We did not act hastily. We realized the importance of sustaining the credit of the vState. We CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKNTION, IVOI 1277 i-oali/.ed our duty to sustain the schools and to kcc)) faith with the Confederate soldiers. We took into consideration all of these ques¬ tions and all of these demanut at the same time wc do know that the undisputed fact is that money in the Treasury induces approiiriations. induces e.x- travagance. Ti)ele"atcs to the Convention, every man here, is able to pav th.e taxes imiioscd upon him without feeling it. but there is a class in this State, the bone and sinew of the State, as it were, iv ,,. „cc.,l protoclicn. not tl.nt tl.ey ,vot,l,l .letract anvtlnns Iron, ih" appropriation ,o schools, not that they wonid take one cent from the soldiers, not that they would cntlanpter the ci edit of the Slate, hnt if these thintts can be preserved and still you ean le i en the l)ur(lcM'i, you should do so. MR. O’NEAL—Can I ask the gentleman who question for information ? :VIR. COLEMAN (Greene)—Yes sir. AIR O’NEAL—I did not have the pleasure of hearing the re¬ marks <)f the Chairman of the Committee in relerence to this Were those two items considered m the estimate he maoe. AIR COLEMAN—I think if the delegate from Lauderdale will hear him when he in Hl?„rwaV(o“e;“‘rc‘;:;ie:lHo„ know with what 1278 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS. care we were proceeding, that we were forgetting nothing of the obligations of the State, nothing of the dut%^ to the schools, nothing of the duty to the soldiers, but bearing all these things in mind our conclusion was that the Convention could very safely reduce the tax rate to six and a half mills. We had also in view the point suggested by the delegate from Henry (Mr. Malone) that it would enable more money to go to those sections of the State, to the children in the agricultural districts, than could be under the pres¬ ent school plan. I don’t think any man who studied this question can fail to perceive that there is an opportunity here presented by w'hich those need}" classes will be greatly benefited and profited under the arrangement the Committee has made more so than by any plan w^hich has been proposed. MR. SMITH (Mobile)—If the sixty-five cent rate had been in force this year, would not the expense have exceeded the col¬ lections some $208,000? MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—It is very true that the Governor called a halt upon the legislature— MR. SMITH (Mobile)—I am not referring to that. Your figures show $58,000 more than was expended. What I w^ant to know is what would have been the result if, instead of seventy- five it had only been sixty-five. Would not that $58,000 have been wiped out and deficit beyond, and w"hat would have been the amount of the deficit? MR. COLEMAN (Greene)—There were extraordinary appro¬ priations, but they will not occur any more in the future. Mr. President, I don’t feel in justice to myself that I can continue my remarks. MR. LOWE—I ask leave to submit for the information of the Convention a communication received by me this morning in reply to an inquiry, from the Governor of the State and another communication received by me in response to an inquiry from the Auditor and Treasurer, and I ask for their reading. The communications were read as follows: Montgomery, June 29, 1901. Hon. Robert J. Lowe: My Dear Sir—In answer to your inquiry, I desire to say that in my opinion, fixing the tax limit in the Constitution at six and a half mills would be unsafe. I studied the situation during the last session of the General Assembly, and I thought then that the tax rate of seven and a half mills would hardly be sufficient to pay the appropriations made by the General Assembly. I have not studied the conditions since that time, but in a con¬ versation with the Auditor and Treasurer, they lead me to doubt the wisdom of placing the limit in the Constitution at six and a half mills. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVI'.NTION, 1901 1279 I fear that it might be unwise, particularly in view of the necessity which is upon us to refund the bonded indebtedness of the State as it might affect an advantageous sale of more than eight million dollars of bon s. I presume if a reduction in the limit is ordered, it will not go into effect until after the next fiscal year. Of course, if it is reduced to six and a half to take effect after that time, the General Assembly can accordingly, though it may have to assail seriously some of the special propriations. Very truly yours, Wm. D. Jelks, Governor. Montgomery, June 29, 1901. Hon. Robert J. Lowe; Dear Sir-Replying to letter of inquiry requesting our opinion as to wheth ? or not the tax limit as fixed by the present Constitution can wUh TafSy at his time, be reduced and if so, to what limit, we beg to say, that „ . .!nio,., i. «oul