MONTANA STATE LIBRARY S342.02Clpc 1 Proceedings and debates of the Constitut 3 0864 00037202 2 Date Due 1 — ;^ AU€ 2 4 1994 aEP 2 1 t994 "MAY - 8 f»7 Sff4 70 1 /ise Jfll 04 oim : -v:,a UUL C ^ i JUL .- ^. -'AN I 6 74 )LP - /I n? flSBiAPR . -■ 75 **^i 3 j; ittd ■: ijs-: ■" PRINTED PN USA. {M^ CAT. NO. 23231 S/342.02/Clp Montana. Constitutional Convention 1889 ' Proceedings and debates of the constitutional convention held in the city of Helena, Montana, July 4th, 1889, August 17th, 1889 oiATE DOCUMENTS MONTANA STATE LIBRARY 930 East lyndala Avenue Helena, Monfano 59601 STATE DOCUMENTS PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Held in the City of Helena, Montana July 4th. 1889, August 17th, 1889 County Courthouse, Used as Convention Hall State Publishing CompaDy Helena, Montana 1921 MONTANA STATE LIBRARY 930 East Lyndale Avenue Helena, Montana 59501 "That government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." FOREWORD Montana was organized as a Territory, by Act of Congress, approved by Abraham Lincoln, May 26, 1864, and became the forty-first state of the Union under the proclamation of Benjamin Harrison on November 8, 1 889. During its existence as a Territory, there were held three con- stitutional conventions. The first was called without authority of law, by proclamation of Secretary and Acting Governor T. F. Meagher, on the petition of a number of citizens. This movement for a constitutional convention was looked on with disfavor by roost residents of the Territory. At that time, there were nine counties in Montana. Under Actmg Governor Meagher's proclamation, the membership in the convention was distributed as follows: Beaverhead 5, Deer Lodge iO, Edgerton (now Lewis and Clark) 10, Gallatin 5, Jefferson 5, Madison 10, and Missoula 5. This convention met at Helena April 9, 1 866, and completed its work on April 14. Eight of the delegates did not attend its sessions. The fruit of its labors was a constitution, copied largely from that of California. The completed manuscript was taken by Thomas E. Tutt, a member from Edgerton county, to St. Louis with the •.inderstanding that it should be published in pamphlet form. TTiis Vi^as never done and as no copy of the instrument was deposited in the office of the Secretary of the Territory at Virginia City, this interesting historical document was lost from the archives of Montana. Two members of the convention of 1866 still survive — John H. Shober and W. Y. Pemberton. Convention of 1 884 Hie second constitutional convention was convened at Hel- ena January 14, 1884, under the authorization of House Joint Resolution, approved March 7, 1883, and concluded its labors on February 9. This convention consisted of 45 members, apportioned among the thirteen counties as follows: Beaverhead 2, Dawson 1, Choteau 2, Custer 3, Yellowstone 2. Deer Lodge 3, Gallatin 5, Jeffer- son 2, Lewis cind Clark 4, Madison 2, Meagher 3, Missoula 4, Silver Bo\v 6. In addition to these two delegates were also allotted to each of the three judicial districts into which the Territory was then divided. An elaborate constitution was drafted during the 27 days ses- sion, which was ratified at the general election in November, but Congress failed to take any action on the subject of admission into the Union. Convention of 1 889 Under the provisions of the Enabling Act of Congress, ap- proved February 22, 1889, the Legislature again provided the neces- sary machinery for holding the third constitutional convention. This convention convened at Helena July 4, 1889, and adjourned on August I 7. The body consisted of 75 members distributed among the 16 counties of the Territory. This constitution was ratified at the election called for that purpose on October 1 , and on November 8, President Harrison issued his proclamation admitting Montana into the Union as a sovereign state. Since its adoption, there have been ten amendments submitted by the Legislature and ratified by the votes of the state. In addi tion to these, two others were submitted by the Seventeenth Legis- lative Assembly which will be acted upon at the coming general election. An Act of the Twelfth Legislative Assembly authorized the publication of the debates and proceedings of the Convention of 1 889 and made an appropriation therefor. No action was taken in the matter, however, until the Legislature in 1919 again made an appropriation of $7,000 for the same purpose. This publication is the result of that action. As the publication of Madison's private journal of the proceed- ings of the Federal Constitutional Convention of 1 787 has thrown great light upon the debates attendant upon the creation of that historic document, it is hoped that the present publication will be of real benefit to students of Montana's history as to the men and motives involved in writing our own basic law. V r.ovf Helena, February 6, 1922. Governor. MEMBERSHIP OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 Edward D. Aiken Silver Bow County; Residence, Butte City; Foundiyman, Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana August 28, 1 864. Born July 6, 1 838, at Grafton, Windham County, Vermont. Deceased April 22, 1900 Peter Breen Jefferson County; Residence, Wickes, Laborer, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana April, 1884, Born October 5. 1860, Near Olatha, Johnson County, Kansas. Deceased October 4, 1 920 Edward Burns Deer Lodge County; EUiston; Merchant, Democrat. Arrived in Montana August 13, 1884, Born June 8, 1855, Rochester, New York. Deceased Walter A. Burleigh Custer County; residence Miles City; Lawyer, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana July 10. 1879, Born October 25, 1820, Watenille, Kennebec County, Maine. Deceased March 7, 1896 David G. Browne Choteau County; residence. Fort Benton; Government contractor. Democrat. Arrived in Montana March 1878, arrived in America February 1876, Born January 16, 1859, Miller Hill, County Down, Ireland. Deceased December 10, 1919 Walter Mansur Bickford Missoula County; residence, Missoula; Lawyer, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana June 17, 1884, Born February 25, 1852, New- burgh, Penobscot County, Maine. J. F. Brazelton Deer Lodge County; residence. Deer Lodge; County Clerk, Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana March 3. 1884, Born May 19, 1858 at New Market, Jefferson County, Tennessee. Deceased December 19, 1917 Simeon R. Bufobd Madison County; residence, Virginia City; Merchant, Democrat. Arrived in Montana September 5, 1865, Born March 2, 1846, at Canton, Lewis County, Missouri. Deceased January 15, 1905 William Mason Bullard Jefferson County; residence, Wickes; Physician and Surgeon, Re- publican. Arrived in Montana April 11,1 880, Born April 23, 1 853, at Indianapolis, Marion County, Indiana. Deceased April 23, 1900 Andrew J. Burns Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Marysville; Mining Super- intendent, Republican. Arrived in Montana August 9, 1881, Born May 5, 1828, at Congress Township, Wayne County, Ohio. Deceased November 26, 1893 Alexander F. Burns Lewis and Clarke County; residence. East Helena; Farmer, Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana October 4th, 1 866, Born December 7, 1832, at Liberty, Clay County, Missouri. Deceased May 27, 1908 Walter Cooper Gallatin County ; residence, Bozeman; Mines and Real Estate, Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana, February 9, 1864, Born July 4, 1843 at Stirling, Cayuga County, New York. Timothy E. Collins Cascade County; residence. Great Falls; Banker, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana November 1 864, arrived in America 1 850, Born November 25, 1843 at Cork, Ireland. Deceased August 30, 1908 William Andrews Clark Silver Bow County; residence, Butte; Banker, also Mining and Reduction of Ores, Democrat. Arrived in Montana July 3, 1863, Born January 8, 1839, near Connellsville, Fayette County, Pennsyl- vania. Charles E. Conrad Choteau County; residence. Fort Benton, Banking and Merchan- dising, Democrat. Arrived in Montana June 30, 1 868, Born May 20, 1850, Warren County, Virginia. Deceased November 27, 1902 Milton Cauby Lewis and Clarke County; residence. East Helena; Hotel-keeper and prospector. Republican. Arrived in Montana February 5, 1885. Rom January 1, 1838 at Virginia, Cass County, Illinois. William Allen Chessman Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Helena; Capitalist, Repub l)can. Arrived in Montana April 20, 1865. Born August 19, 1830 at Weymouth, Norfolk County, Massachusettes. Deceased October 2, 1920 B. Platt Carpenter Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Helena, Lawyer, Republi- can. Arrived in Montana January 5, 1885. Born May 14, 1837 at Stanford, Duchess County, New York. Deceased December 24, 1921. Arthur J. Craven Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Helena; Lawyer, Republi- can. Arrived in Montana August 7, 1884. Born December 12, 1857 at Lancaster, Jefferson County, Indiana. Edward Cardwell Jefferson County; Stock Growing and Farming, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana 1863. Arrived in America 1848. Born 1832 at Glenavey, Antrim County, Ireland. Deceased May 4, 1912 James E. Callaway Madison County; residence, Virginia City; Lawyer, Radical Re- publican. Arrived in Montana March 1871. Born July 7, 1835 in the "Backwoods" Trigg County, Kentucky. Deceased August 21, 1905 Thomas F. Courtney Silver Bow County; residence, Butte City; Grocer, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana July 16, 1880. Born April 4, 1856 at Miners- ville, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania. Deceased March 4, 1901 William W. Dixon Silver Bow County; residence, Butte City; Lawyer, Democrat. Arrived in Montana May 15 1866. Born June 3, 1838 at Brook- Ij'n, New York. Deceased November 13, 1910 Da\id M. Durfee Deer Lodge Countv; residence, Philipsburg; Lawyer, Democrat. Arrived in Montana "March 12, 1882. Born July 22, 1855 at Duanesburgh, Schenectady County, New York. William Dyer Silver Bow County; residence. Butte; Miner, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana March 1 6, 1 878. Arrived in America July 8, 1873. Born February 28, 1853 at St. Anstell, Cornwall, England. Deceased November 17, 1911 George O. Eaton Park County; residence, Livingston; Miner, Republican. Arrived in Montana 1882. Born May 14, 1848 at Warren, Knox County, Maine. William T. Field Park County; residence Livingston; Locomotive Engineer, Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana September 22, 1 882. Born August 1 3, i859 at Joliet, Will County, Illinois. Warren C. Gillette Lewis and Clarke County ; residence Dearborn ; Wool-grower, Re- publican. Arrived in Montana September, 1862. Born March 10, 1 832 at Orleans, Ontario County, New York. Deceased September 8, 1915 Fielding L. Gra\es Beaverhead County; residence, Bannack; Merchant, Democrat, Arrived in Montana June 22, 1865. Born July 19, 1833 at Fayette County, Kentucky. Deceased December 26, 1913 O. F. Goddard Yellowstone County ; residence, Billings ; Lawyer, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana March 16, 1883. Born January 20, 1853 near Troy, Davis County, Iowa. J. E. Gaylord Jefferson County ; residence, Whitehall ; Mining. Arrived in Mon- tana February 15, 1883. Born January 14, 1844 at Liberty, Sulli- van County, New York. Deceased July 23, 1920 Paris Gibson Cascade County; residence. Great Falls; Real Estate, Democrat. Arrived in Montana March 1879. Born July 1, 1830 at Brown- field, Oxford County, Maine. Deceased December 1 6, 1 920 Lewis H. Hershfield Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Helena; Banker, Republican. Arrived in Montana July 1, 1864. Born August 12, 1837, at Utica, Oneida County, New York. Deceased December 4, 1910 Charles S. Hartman Gallatin County; residence, Bozeman; Lawyer, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana January 1882. Born March 1 , 1861 at Monticello, White County, Indiana. Henri J. Haskell Dawson County; residence Glendive; Attoiney-at-law, Republi- can. Arrived in Montana June 24, 1882. Born July 20, 1843 at Palmyra, Somerset County, Maine. Deceased March 1 1 . 1 92 1 Luke D. Hatch Missoula County; residence Stevensville; Postmaster and Miner, Democrat. Arrived in Montana June 20, 1 876, (had been in the territory before). Born October 3, 1844 at Mason Township, Cass County, Michigan. Deceased December 7, 1920 Joseph Hogan Silver Bow County ; residence, Walker\'ille ; Miner, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana June 20, 1883. Born November 24, 1862 at Sweet Chalybeate Springs, Alleghany County, Virginia. Deceased May 27, 1900 S. S. Hobson Fergus County; residence, Utica; Stockgrower, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana March 1880. Born April 29, 1839 at Buxton, York County, .Maine. Robert E. Hammond Jefferson County ; residence, Elkhorn ; School Teacher, Republican. Arrived in Montana July 1, 1887 Born September 17, 1859 at Ashland, Greenup County, Kentucky. Richard Owen Hickman Madison County; residence, Virginia City; Merchant and Miner, Republican. Arrived in Montana July 7, 1 864. Born November 1 , i831, at Shelbyville. Shelby Countv, Kentucky. Deceased July 20, 1895 Allan R. Joy Park County; residence Livingston; Attorney-at-law, Republican. Arrived in Montana June 10, 1883. Born June 15, 1857 at Ells- worth, Hancock County, Maine. Thomas Joves Jefferson County; residence, Boulder; Lawyer, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana June 3, 1885. Born February 14, 1858 at Louis- ville, Jefferson County, Kentucky. Deceased June 4, 1 893 Conrad Kohrs Deer Lodge County; residence. Deer Lodge; Farmer and Stock- grower, Republican. Arrived in Montana July 1 862, Arrived in America 1852. Born August 5. 1835 at Wevelsfeth, Wilster March, Holstein, (then Denmark now Prussia), Germany. Deceased July 24, 1920 Hiram Knowles Silver Bow County; residence, Butte City; Lawyer, Republican. Arrived in Montana June 1, 1866. Born January 18, 1834 at Hampden, Penobscot County, Maine. Deceased April 6, 1911 William J. Kennedy Missoula County; residence Victor; Clerk State Supreme Court, Republican. Arrived in Montana April 30, 1880. Arrived in America June 12, 1879. Born April II, 1851 at Bowmanville, Durham County, Canada. Deceased August 26, 1 920 Henry KNippEr^BERc Beaverhead County; residence Glendale; Mining and Banking, Re- publican. Arrived in Montana April 3, 1881. Arrived in America 1849. Born December 27, 1843 at Hamm near the City of Woerms, Hesse Darmstadt, Germany. J. E. Kanouse Meagher County; residence, Townsend, Lawyer, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana August 6, 1 886. Born December 1 8, 1 845 at Woodstock, New Jersey. Llewellyn Augustus Luce Gallatin County; residence, Bozeman; Lawyer, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana March 29, 1882. Born November II, 1837 at Readfield, Kennebec County, Maine. Deceased January 4, 1 903 Charles H. Loud Custer County; residence. Miles City; Stock-growing, Republican. Arrived in Montana January 28, 1880. Born November 20, 1858 et Weymouth, Norfolk County, Massachusetts. William Muth Lewis and Clarke County ; residence, Helena ; Real Estate, Demo- crat. Arrived in Montana December 3, 1873. Born October 2, 1851 at Wheeling, Ohio County, Virginia. Samuel L. Mitchell Choteau County; residence, Choteau; Stock raiser. Republican. Arrived in Montana April 1 , 1865. Arrived in America February 5, 1852. Born July 10, 1842 at Coleraine, Deny County, Ireland. Deceased February 3, 1903 Charles S. Marshall Missoula County; residence, Missoula; Lawyer, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana May 15, 1888. Born January 19, 1821 at Paris, Bourbon County, Kentucky. Deceased November 13, 1896 William Mayger Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Marysville; Mining Super- intendent, Democrat. Arrived in Montana June 1 864. Born No- vember 24, 1842 at St. Louis, Missouri. Deceased January 20, 1918 Alfred Myers Yellowstone County; residence, Billings; Stock Grower, Democrat. Arrived in Montana September 2, 1866. Born January 10, 1840 at Macomb, McDonough County, Ilhnois. Deceased June 23, 1920 C. R. MiDDLETON Custer County; residence. Miles City; Lawyer, Democrat. Ar- lived in Montana July 4, 1884. Born January 31, 1853 at Afton, Washington County, Mmnesota. Joseph E. Marion Missoula County; residence, Frenchtown; Merchant, Democrat. Arrived in Montana June, 1861. Arrived in St. Louis September, i860. Born June 1. 1842 at Contrecoeur, Verchires County, Prov- mce of Quebec, Canada. Deceased September 27, 1901 Martin Maginnis Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Helena; Mining, Democrat. Arrived in Montana August 1866. Born October 27, 1841, at Wal- worth, Wayne County, New \ ork. Deceased March 27. 1919 Perry W. McAdow Fergus Countv ; residence. Maiden ; Quartz Mining, Democrat. Ar- rived in Montana July 10, 1861. Born July 28, 1838 at Maysville, Mason County, Kentucky. Deceased July 12, 1918. William Parberry Meagher County; residence. White Sulphur Springs; Physician. Arrived in Montana August 7, 1865. Born March 12, 1833 at Bourbon County, Kentucky. Deceased October 12, 1902 John Clark Robinson Deer Lodge County; residence. Deer Lodge; Lawyer, Democrat. Arrived in Montana May 1866. Born March 9, 1834, near Pal- myra, Marion County, Missouri. Deceased December 5, 1897 William R. Ramsdell Missoula County; residence, Egan; Mercantile and Cattle raising, Democrat. Arrived in Montana 1881. Born June 7, I860 at Man- torville. Lodge County, Minnesota. Louis Rotwitt Meagher County; residence, White Sulphur Springs; Mining, Re- publican. Arrived in Montana May 31, 1866. Arrived in America April 23, 1857. Born July 23, 1838 at Hochheim-on-the-Main. Duchy of Nassau, Germany. Deceased December 6, 1910 G. J. Reek Deer Lodge County; residence. Granite; School Teacher, Republi- can. Arrived in Montana September 1887. Born March 17, 1856 at Linn, County of Walworth, Wisconsin. Deceased July 27, 1897 John Ezra Rickards Silver Bow County; residence, Butte City; Merchant, Republican. Arrived in Montana October 1882. Born July 23, 1848 at Dela- Vvfare City, Newcastle County, Delaware. Francis E. Sargeant Silver Bow County; residence Butte City; Mining Secretary, Re- publican. Arrived in Montana August 1865. Born August 2, 1841 at Peacham, Caledonia County, Vermont. George W. Stapleton Silver Bow County; residence, Butte City; Attorney-at-law, Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana July 1862. Born November 28, 1834 ?t Knightstown, Rush County, Indiana. Deceased April 25, 1910 Leopold Fred Schmidt Silver Bow County; residence, Butte; Brewer, Independent. Ar- rived in Montana May 28, 1870, arrived in America, March 11, 1866. Born January 23, 1846 at Dornassenheim, Oberhessen County, Germany. Deceased September 24, 1914 Joseph K. Toole Lewis and Clarke County; residence, Helena; Lawyer. Dem- ocrat. Arrived in Montana May 1869. Born May 12, 1851 at Savannah, Andrew County, Missouri. John R. Toole Deer Lodge County; residence. Anaconda; Mining, Democrat. Arrived in Montana December 21, 1884. Born July 3, 1850 at Weston, Aroostook County, Maine. Deceased March 4, 1916 Charles M. Webster Cascade County; residence. Great Falls; Secretary Great Falls Water Power and Townsite Company, Republican. Arrived in Montana April 20, 1886. Born April 12, 1858 at Zumbrota, Good- hue County, Minnesota. Deceased May 7. 1909 William H. Watson Fergus County; residence, Lewistown; Retired, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana June 1, 1882. Born August 31, 1822 at Geneva, Ontario County, New York. Deceased August 1 7, I 894 George B. Winston Deer Lodge County; residence. Anaconda; Lawyer, Democrat. Arrived in Montana May 23, 1 883. Born October 9, 1 861 at Jeffer- son City, Cole County, Missouri. Charles S. Warren Silver Bow County; residence. Butte; Mming Operator, Republi- can. Arrived in Montana .August 20, 1866. Born November 20, 1847 at Utica, LaSalle County, Illinois. Deceased April 13, 1921 Henry R. Whitehill Deer Lodge County; residence. Deer Lodge; Attorney-at-law, Re- publican. Arrived in Montana August 15, 1881. Born March 26, 1 838 at Hookstown, Beaver County, Pennsylvania. Deceased June 11, 1905 Aaron C. Witter Beaverhead County; residence, Dillon; Mining, Republican. Ar- rived in Montana July 1875. Born June 13, 1849 at South Bend, St Joseph Count}', Indiana. Deceased January 31, 1891 LIST OF PORTRAITS Aiken, E. D 208 Bickford. W. M 400 Brazelton, J. F 112 Breen, Peter 976 Browne, D. G 1 12 Buford, S. R 400 Bullard, W. M. . .-.. 208 Burleigh, W. A 208 Burns, A. F .304 Burns, A. J 976 Burns, Edward 592 Callaway, J. E 208 Cardwell, E. 1 ._. 880 Carpenter. B. P 496 Cauby, Milton .784 Chessman, W. A. 112 Clark, W. A., President Fronte&piece Clowes, H. E., Chaplain 976 Collins, T. E -304 Connolly, C. P., Stenographer ..880 Conrad, C. E 16 Cooper, Walter 208 Courtney, T. F i 496 Craven, A. J 496 Dixon. W. W 112 Durfee, D. M. 784 Dyer, William 976 Eaton, G. O. 304 Field, W. T 112 Gaylord, J. E 976 Gibson, Paris .784 Gillette, W. C .592 Goddard, O. F. 688 Graves, F. L 16 Hammond, R. E 496 Hartmnn, C. S 400 Haskell, H. J 304 Hatch, L. D. 688 Hershfield, L. H 688 Hickman, R. 0 880 Hobson, S. S 688 Hogan, Joseph 16 Joy, Allan R 688 Joyes, Thomas 400 Kanouse, J. E 496 Kennedy, W. J 16 Knippenberg, H 592 Knowles, Hiram 880 Kohrs, Conrad 304 Loud, C. H 16 Luce, L. A 496 Maginnis, M 208 Marion, J. E. 112 Marshall, C. S 592 Mayger, William 400 McAdow, P. W. 304 Middleton, C. R 688 Mitchell, S. L 784 Muth, William 880 Myers, Alfred 592 Parberry, W 976 Ramsdell, W. R 784 Reek, G. J 496 Rickards, J. E 304 Robinson, J. C 976 Rotwitt, Louis - 592 Sargeant, F. E 784 Schmidt, L. F 400 Stapleton, G. W 688 Todd, W. H., Chief Clerk 784 Toole. J. K 16 Toole. J. R 208 Warren. C. S 592 Watson, W. H 112 Webster, C. M 880 Whitehill, H. R 400 Winston, G. B 16 Witter, A. C 880 ENABLING ACT (T>ublicKo.52) An act to provide for th.e division of Dakota into two States and to enable the people of North DnivOta. South Dakota. Montana and Washington to form i-onstitulions and State go\ernnienls and to l)e admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original Stales, and In make donations of public lands to such States. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of HrpresiMilativi's of the United States of .\merica in Congress assembled. Sec. I. That the inhabitants of all that pari of the area of the United States now constituting the Territories of Dakota, Montana, and Washing- ton, as at present described, may become the States of .North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Washington, respectively, as hereinafter provided. Sec. 2. The area comprising the Territory of Dakota shall, for the liurposes (if this act, be divided cin the line of the seventh standard parallel produced due west to the western boundary of said Territory; and the delegates elected as hereinafter pro\ided to the constitutional convention in districts north of said parallel shall assemble in convention, at the time prescribed in this act, at the city of Bismarck; and the delegates elected in districts south of said parallel shall, at the same time assemble in conven- tion at the city of Sioux Falls. Sec. 3. That all persons who are qualified by the laws of said Terri- tories to vote for representatives to the legislative assembly thereof, are hereby authorized to vote for and choose delegates to form conventions in said proposed States; and thi' qualifications for delegates to such c<)n\en- lions shall be such as by the laws of said Territories respectively persons are required to possess to be eligible to the legislative assemblies thereof: and the aforesaid delegates to form said conventions shall be apportioned within the limits of the proposed States, in such districts as may be estab- lished as herein provided, in proportion to the population in each id' said counties and districts, as near as may be. to be ascertained at the time of making said appi>rtionments by the persons hereinafter authorized to make the same, fnim the best information obtainable, in each of which districts three delegates shall be elected, but no elector shall ^■ote for more than two persons for delegates to such conventions; that said apportionments shall be made by the governor, the chief-justice, and the secretary of said Terri- tories; and the governor of said Territories shall, by proclamation, order an election of the delegates aforesaid in each of said proposed States, to be held on the Tuesday after the second Monday in .May. eighteen hundred and eighty-iune, which proclamation shall be issued on the fifteenth day of April, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine; and such election shall be con- ducted, the returns made, the result ascertaineii, and the certificates to persons elected to such convention issued in the same manner as is pre- scribed by the laws of the said Territories regulating elections therein for Delegates to Congress; and the number of votes cast for delegates in each precinct shall also be returned. The number of delegates to said conven- tions respectively shall be seventy-five; and all persons resident in said proposed Stales, who are qualified voters of said Territories as herein provided, shall be entitled to vote upon the election of delegates, and under such rules and regulations as said conventions may prescribe, not in conflict with this act. upon the ratification or rejection of the constitutions. Sec. 1. That the delegates to the conventions elected as provided for in this act shall meet at the seat of government of each of said Territories, except the delegates elected in South Dakota, who shall meet at the city of Sioux Falls, on the Fourth day of ,Iuly. eighteen hundred and eighty-nine. and. after organization, shall declare, on behalf of the people of said pro- posed States, that they adopt the Constitution of the United States; where- upon the said conventions shall be, and are hereby, authorized to form constitutions and State governments for said proposed States, respectively. ■4 K.\AHI.I.\(i ACT The conslJlulidiis shall he n'pulilican in fnrm. aiul make no dislinctiim in civil or polilical I'ighls on acL-ount of race or color, except as to Indians not taxed, and not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration ot Indepenilence. And said conventions shall provide, by ordinances irrevocable without the consent of the United and the people (d' said States: First. That perfect toleration of religious seiiliineni shall be secured and thai no inhabitant of said States shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her niotle of religious worshiii. Second. Tiiat the people inhabiting said proposed States do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to tiie unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries thereof, and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes: and tlial until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to the disposition of the United States, and said Indian lands shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and con- trol of the Congress of the United States; that the lands belonging to citi- zens of the United Slates residing without the said States siiall never be taxed at a higlier rate than the lands belonging to residents thereof: that no taxes shall be imposed by the States on lands or property therein belong- ing to or which may hereafter be piu'chased by the 1^'nited States or reserved for its use. But nothing lierein. oi' in the ordinances herein provided for, shall preclude the said States from taxing as other lands are taxed any lands owned or held by any Indian who has se\ ered his tribal relations, and has obtained from the United States or from any person a title thereto by patent or other grant, save and except such lands as have been or may be granted to any Indian or Indians under any act of Congress containing a provision exempting the lands thus granted from taxation, but said ordinances shall provide thut all such lands shall be exempt from taxation by said States so long and to such extent as such act of Congress. may prescribe. Third. That the debts ami liabilities of said Territories shall be assumed and paid by said States, respectively. Fourth. That provision shall be made for the establishment and main- tenance of systems of public schools, which shall be open to all the children of said States, and free from sectarian control. Sec. 5. That the convention which shall assemble at Bismarck shall form a constitution and State government for a Stale to be known as North Dakota, and the convention which shall assemble at Sioux Falls shall form a constitution and State government for a State to be known as South Dakota: PROVIDED, That at the election for delegates to the constitutional convention in South Dakota, as hereinbefore provided, each elector may have written or printed on his ballot the woi'ds, "For the Sioux l'"alls consti- tution," or the words, "against the Sioux Falls constitution," and the votes on this question shall be returned and canvassed in the same manner as for the election provided for in section three of this act; and if a majority of all votes cast on this question shall be "for the Sioux Falls constitution" it shall be the duty of the convention which may assemble at Sioux Falls, as herein pi'ovided, to resubmit to [he people of South Dakota, for ratifica- tion or I'ejection at the election hereinafter pi'Ovided for in this act, the constitution foi'med at Sioux Falls and ailopled No\ ember third, eighteen hundred and eighty-fi\e. and also the articles and propositions separately submilted at that election, including the qui'stion of locating the tem- porary seat of government, with such changes only as relate to the name and boundary of the proposed State to the reai)portionment of the judicial and legislative distriids. and such amendments as may l)e neci^ssary in order to comply with the pi'ovisions of this act: and if a majority of the votes cast on the ratification or rejection of the constilution shall be for the constitution irrespective of the articles seiiarately submitte "against the Sioux ]''alls constitution," then and in thai event shall lie th(> duty of the convention which will assemble at Ihe city (d' Sioux falls on the K.NAHI.I.NC ACT .-, loui-lli (lay 111' July, ('iylili'cii liuiidrnl ami tMf;li(y-niiii', to profi'i'd to form a foiisliluliou and Stati' j-'omtihiu'iU. as proxidi'd in tliis act tlic sanii' as if thai quosliou had not heon suhinitted to a votp of the people of South Dakota. Sec. I). Il shall be the duty id' the cimstilulioiial conventions of North Palvota and Soutli Dakota to appoint a joint commission, to be composed of not. less than three members of each convention, whose duty it sliall \)i'. to assemble at Hismacck, llie present seat of government of said Territory, and agree upon an equitable di\ision of all iiro|)erly belonging to the 'i'ecci- lory of Dakota, the disposition (d' all public records, and also adjust and agree upon (he amount of the del)ts and liabililii's of the Territory, wliicli shall be assumed and paiti by each of the proposed States of Xorth Dakota and South Dakota; and the agreement reached resitecting the Territorial debts and liabilities shall Ix^ incorporated in tlu' respective constitutions. and each of such Stales shall obligate itself to- pay its proporlion of said debts and liabilities the same as if thi'y had bei'ii crcalnl by such Slates respectively. Sec. 7. If llie consi ilul inn loiTiii'd for liolli .Xorlli Dakola and South Dakota shall bi' rejected by llie [teople at the (declions for the i-alification or rejection of their respective constitidions as provided for in this act, the Territorial government of Dakota shall continue in existence the same as if this act had not been [lassed. But if the conslilulion formeiJ for either Noi-th Dakola or South Dakota shall be rejected liy the people, Ihat part id' the Territory so rejecting its proposed constitution shall continue under llie territorial government of the preseni tei'rilory of Dakota, but shall, after the State adopting its constitution is admitted into the Union, he called by llie name of the Territory of Xorth Dakola or South Dakota, as the case may be: PROVIDED. That it' eilher of the proposed States provided for in this act shall rejeid. the constitution which may be sub- mitted for ratificalion or rejection at the election [ir-ovided therefor, the Governor of the Territm-y in whicii such proposed constitution was reji'cted shall issue his proclamation recon\ening the delegates elected to the convention which formed such rejected conslilulion, fixing the time and place at which said delegates shall assemble: and when so assembled they shall proceed to form another constitution or lo amend the rejected consti- tution, and shall submit such new conslilulion oi' amended constitution lo the people of the proposed Slate for I'atification or rejection, at such time as said coinention may determine: and all the provisions of this act, so far as applicalde. shall apidy to such conxention so reassembled and to tlie coustilution which may be foi-med, its ratification or rejection, and to the adnijssion of the proposed State. Sec. 8. That the constitutional convenlion whiidi may assemble in South Dakota shall provide by ordinance for resubmilting the Sioux Falls constitution of eighteen hundred and eighty-five, after having amended the same as provided is section five of this act, to the people of South Dakota for ratificalion or rejection at an election to be held tlierein on trie first Tuesday in October, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine; but if said constitutional convention is authorized and required to form a new consiitution for South Dakota it shall provide for submitting the same in like manner to the people of Soulh Dakota for ratificalion or rejection at an election to be held in said proposed state on the said first Tuesday in October. And the constitutional conventions which may assemble in North Dakota, Monlana. and Washington shall provide in like manner for submit- ting the constitutions formed by them to the people of said proposed Slates, respectively-, for ratification or ri'jection at elections to be held in said proposed States on the firsl Tuesday in October. At the eleclions provided for in this .section the qualified voters of said proposed Statis shall \ole directly for or against the proposed conslitulions, and for or against any ai'ticles or pro]jositions separately submitted. The returns of said elections shall be made lo the secretary of each of said Territori'^s, who. with tlie governor and chief justice thereof, or any two of them, shall canvass tile same: and if a majority of the legal \-otes cast shall be for the constitution the governor shall certify the result lo the President of the United Slates, together with a slalement of the voles cast thereon and upon separate articles or propositions, and a copy of said constitution, articles, propositions, and ordinances. And if the constitutions and govern- ments of said proposed Stales are republican in form, and if all the provi- C K.\ABI.l.\Ci ACl' tiiiiiis (if llii.s art, lia\r Ijrni ciiiiiiilird wllli ill llii' fi iriiial ii ill lliiTcol', it sliall bf till' duty 111' ihe I'rosideiU ol llu' Liiilud States U> issue liis prtH-laniatioii uiuiouilL'iiiy' the I'usult of Ilii' eli'clidii in eai'li. and tlicreupun tiir pruijosed htatos wlucli liave adopted constitutions and loi'incd Siate goviu'nineats as lierein pi'o\ided shall bo deemed lulniilled by (_;oiifii'i'ss, into tlie L'liioii under anu by \ii1ue ol this ad nn an ei|ual |■ootill^: willi the original States I'roni and alter the date of said jimelanialioii. Sec. 9. ■ That until the next general census, or ntherwise iiro\ided by law, said Stales shall be entitled to one Hepresenlative in the House of KepresentatiM's of the Lulled Slates, except Soulli Dakota, which shall be entitled to two; and Ihe Heiiresentalives to Ihe Fifty-lirsl Congress, together wilh Ihe governors and other officers provided foi' in said consti- tutions, may be elected on the same day of the election for Ihe ralilicaliiin or rejection of th(_> constitulions; and unlil said Slate olficers are elected and qualified under Ihe pruxisions of each conslilution and tlii! States, I'espectively, are admilted into Ihe Union. Ihe Territorial officers shall continue to discharge tlie dufii's of their res|iecli\ i: nflices in each of said Territories. Sec. 10. That upon llie admission of each of said Stales into the Union seel ions numbered sixteen anu thirly-six in eNery township of said proposed .Stales, and wliere such section, or any parts Ihereof, have been sold or otherwise disposed of by or under Ihe authority of any act of Congress, other lands equivalent thereto, in legal subdivisions of not less than one- quarter section, and as contiguous as may he to the section in lieu of which 'the same is taken, are hereby granletl hi said Slates for the support of connnon schools, such indemnity lands to hi: selecied witliin said States in such manner as the h gislature may iiriuiile, with the ai)proval of the Secretary of the Interior; l-'Ht)VlDEr), thai the sixteenth and thirty-sixth seclious embraced in permanent reser\ations for nalioiial puriioses shall not, at any time, be suljjecl lo the grants nor lo Ihe niilemiiity provisions of this acl, nor shall any lands embraced in Indian, military ov other reser- vations of any character be subject to Ihe granl.s or lo the iiulemnity provisions of Ihis act unlil Ihe reserxatinn shall have been extinguished and such lands be restored lo, and liecmiie a pari of, tlie public domain. Sec. II. L'hal all lands herein {^rallied iur educalional purposes shall be disposed of only al public sale, and at a price not less than len dollars per acre, the proceeds to consliliite a permanent school fund, the interest of which only shall he e\|iended in the support of said schools. But saiil lands may. under such regulations as the legislatures shall prescribe, be leasei-l for periods of not more Iliaii five years, in quanlilies not exceeding one section to any one person or company; and such lands shall not be subject to pre-emption, homestead entry or any other entry under the land laws of the United Slates, whether surveyed or unsurveyed, bul shall be reserved for school purposes only. Sec. 12. That uijnii the admission of each of said States into the Uiiinn, in accordance wilh Ihi' provisions of this act, fitly sections of the unap.pro- priated public lands witliin said Slales, lo be selected and located in legal subdivisions as pro\ided in section len of this act, shall be, and are iiereby, granted to said Slates for the purpose of (>recting public buildings at the capital of said States for legislatiM'. executive and judicial purposes. Sec. 13. That five per centum nf the proceeds of the sah' of public lands lying within said Stales which shall he sold by the United Stales subsequent lo the admission of said Stad's iiilo the Union, after deducting all the expenses incident to the same, shall be paid to Ihe said Slates, to be used as a permanent fund, the iuteresl of which only shall be exiieiided for the support of connnon schools within said Slates, respectively. Sec. 1 i. 'J'hat Ihe lands graiiled to the Territories of Dakota and Mmi tana by the act of l>'ehriiar\- eiglileenth, eighteen hundred and eighty-one, enlitled ".\n act to graiil lands In Dakota, .Montana, .\rizona, lilalio and Wyoming for uni\ersily ijurjinses," are hereby vested in Ihe States of South j;)akota. North Dakota, and Mnnlana. respectively, if such Slales are ailmil- teil into Ihe L'nion, as provided in this acl, lo Ihe (>xleiU of Ihe full quantily of se\enty-lwo sections lo each of said Slales, and any porlinn of said lands that may not lia\e he(>n selecied by either of said Territories of Dakota or .Mnnlana may be selecied by Ihe respeclive Slates aforesaid: lull said act of l''ehriiaiy eighleenlh, eighteen hundred and eighty-one, shall be so aiiiriiiird as In pin\ iile ilial iioue of Said lands shall be sold for less than ten K.NABlJMi ACT 7 dollars 1)01- :uTi'. and tlir pi-ocood;; shall constiluto a pormanout fund to l)i> safely invt'sled and hold by said States severally, and tlir incoine thereof be used exclusively for university purposes. And sueh quanlily of the lands authorized by the fourth section of the act. of July seventeenth, eighteen hundred and fifty-fnur. to be reserved for university purposes in the Territory of Washington, as, together with the lands confirmed In tin' vendees of the Teiritory liy the act of Marcti fourteenth, eighteen hundred and sixty-four, will make the full tiuaiUity of seventy-two entire sections, are hereby gianted in the like manner to the State of Washington for the purpose of a university in said State. None of the lands granted in this section shall be sold at less than ten dollars per acre: but said lands may be leased in the same manner as provided in section eleven of this act. The schools, colleges and universities provided for in this act shall forever remain under the exclusive control of the said States, respectively, and no part of the proceeds arising from the sale or disposal of any lands herein granted for educational purposes shall be used for the support of any sectarian or denominational schools, college or university. The section of land granted by the art (d' June sixteentll. eighteen hundred and eighty, to the Territory of Dakota, for an asylum for the insane shall, upon admission of tlie said State of South Dakota into the Inion. become the property of said State. Sec. 15. That so much of the lands lielonging to the United Slates as have been acquired and set apart for the purpose mentioned in "An act ai>proprialing money for the erection of a penitentiary in the Territory of Dakota." approved March second, eighteen hundred and eighty-one. together with the buildings thereon, be. and the same is hereby granted, together with any unexpended lialances of the moneys appropriated therefor by said act. to said State of South Dakota for the purjioses therein designated: and the Stales of North Dakota and \\"ashinglon shall, respectively, have like grants for the same purpose, and subjind to like terms and conditions as provided in said act of March second, eighteen hundred and eighty-one, for the Territory of Dakota. The iienitenliary at Dei-r Lodge City, Montana, and a'l lands connected therewith and set apart and reserved therefor, are hereby granted to the State of Montana. Sec. 16. That ninety thousand acres of land, to be selected and located as provided in section ten of this act. are hereby granted to each of said Slates, except to tlie Slate of South Dakota, to which one hundred and twenty thousand acres are granted, for the use and support of agricultural colleges in said Slates, as provideil in the acts of Congress making donations of lands for such purpose. Sec. IT. That in lieu of the gi-ant of land for puriioses of internal improvement made to new States by the eighth section of the act of Septem- ber fourth, eiehteen hmidred and forty-one. which act is lierehy repealed as to the States i)rovided for liy this act. and in lieu of any claim or demand by the said Stales, or eillier of them, under the act of Septemlier twenty-eight, eighteen hundred and fifty, and section twenty-four hundred and seventy-nine of the Revised Statutes, making a grant of swamp and overflowed lands to certain States, wdiicb grant it is hereby declared is not extended to the States provided for in this act. and in lieu of any grant of saline lands to said States, (he following grants of land are hereby madi'. t/>-wit: To the State of South Dakota: For the school of mines, forty tho\i^init acres: for the reform school, forty thousand acres: for the deaf and dumb asylum, forty thousand acres: for the as-'ricullural collesre. forlv tbousaml acres: for the university, forty Ihousanil acres: for State normal schools, eighty thousand acres: for public buildings at the capital of said Stale, fifty thousand acres, and foi' such other educational ami charil;dile purposes as the legislature of said Slati" may determine, onp hundi'ed and seventy-five thousand acres: in all five hundred llmusand acres. To the State of North Dakota a like quantity of land as is in this section granted to the Slate of South Dakota, and to be for like purposes, and in like proportion as far as practicable. To the State of Montana: For the establishment and maintenance of a school of mines, one hundred thou.s.and acres: for State normal schools, one hundi'ed thousand acres: for agricultural colleges, in addition to (he grant hereinbefore made for that purpose, fifty thousand acres: for the establishment of a stale reform school, fifty thousand acres: for the estab- 8 K.NAHIJ.Nd ACT lishnii'iil, ol' a di'al' ami iliiiiili asylum, lilty llmiisaiiii aiTCs: fin- pulilii' Imildiiigs at Uii> capital (if tlii> Stale, in adiliiioii to Ihe jirarit ln'rciiilii'l'iiri' made for thai purpose, one hundred and fitly thousand acres. 'J'o the Slate of Washington: For the estahlishment and maintenance of la scientific school, one hundred thousand acre.s: for State noi'mal scliools, one hundred thousand acres: for public buildings at the Slate caiiital. in addition to tiie grant hereinbi>fore made foe that purpose, one hiuidred thousand acres: for Slate charitable, educational, penal, and reldrinalory institulions. Iwo hundred thousand acres. I'hal the Slates pi'ovided for in this act shall not be entitled lo any fui'ther Ol- other grants of land for any jiurpose than as expressly provideil in this Act. And the lands granted by this section shall be held, appropri- ated, and disposed id' e.\clusi\ dy for Ihe pur|)oses herein nienlloni'd, in such manner as ibe lei;islalurrs of the respe(-ti\e Slates may se\erall\- provide. Sec. 18. That all mineral lanils shall he exemidt d from the grants made by this act. But if sections sixtetui and thirty-six. or any subdivisions or portion of any smallest subdivision thereof in any township shall be found by the Department of the Interior to be mineral lands, said States are hereby authorized and emjjowered to select, in legal suhrJivisions, an equal quantity of other unaiiporpi-iated lands in said Stales, in lieu thereof, foi' the use and for the benidil of Ihe common schools of said States. Sec. 19. That all lands granted in quantity or as indemnity by this act shall be selected, under the direction of the Secretary of the Int(M-ior, from the surveyed, imreserved, and unapin-oprialed public lands of Ihe United States within the limits of the i-espective States entitled thereto. And there shall be deducted from Ihe number of acres of land donated by this act for specific objects to said States the number of acres in eacli heretofore donated by Congress to said Territories for similar objects. Sec. 20. That the sum of twenty thousand dollars, or so much thereof as may be necessai-y, is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to each of said Territories for defray- ing the expenses of Ihe said conyentions, except to Dakota, for which the sum of forty thousand dollai-s is so a|)i)ropriated, twenty thousand dollars each for South t)akota and Norlh Dakota, and for Ihe payment of the members thereof, under the same rules ;and regulations anil at the same rates as are now in-ovided by law foe the iiayinenl of tiie Terrilorial legis- latures. Any money hereby appropriated not necessary for sucli [lurpose shall be relurned into flie treasury of the United States. Sec. 21. That each of said Stales, when admitted as aforesaid, shall constitute one judicial district, the names thereof lo he the same as the names of the States, respecti-\ely ; and the cii-cuit anri district courts there- for shall lie held at Ihe capital of such Stale for the tinii' being, and each of said districts shall, for judicial iiurposes, until otherwise [irovided, bi' attached to the eighth judicial circuit, except \\ashin;;ton and Montana, which shall he attached to Ihe ninth judicial disti-ict. There shall be appointed foi' each of said dislricis, oni^ district judge, one United Stales attorney, and one United Stales marshal. 'I'lie judge of each of said disti'icts shall receive a yearly salary of three thousand, five hundred dollars pay- able in four (>qual installments, on the first days of January, \pi-\\, July, and October' of each year, and shall reside in the district. There shall be appointed clerks of said courts in each district, who shall keep their offices at the capital of said Stale: the regnlai- term (d' said courts shall be held in each disli-ict at Ihe place aforesaid, on the first Monday in .\pril and the first Monday in .No\emher of each yeai', and only one grand jury and one petit jui-y shall he sumimineil in both said circuit and liistrict courts. The cir-cuit and district cour-ts for each of said disli-icts, and llie judges thercHtf, I'espectivi'ly, siiall possess Ihe s;une powers and jurisdiction, and perform the same dulies i-cquired lo be perfocmed b\ other circuil and dislrict courts and judges id' Ihe United Stales, and shall be gox'erned by the same laws and regulations. The mai'shal. district altorney, and clerks of the circuit and dislr-icl court of each of said districts, and all other officers and jjersons perfoi-ming iluties in Ihe adnuiustral ion id' justice Iherein. siiall severalK- possess the powi rs and perform Ihe duties lawfully possessed and I'equired to be performed by similar officers in other disli-icts of Ihe United States: and shall, fnr- Ihe sei-\ ices lliey ma> pccfnrni. recii\i' Ihe fi'es and K.\AHI,I.\(; AIM' 9 (•onipcnsalion allowed liy law to otliiT siniilai- orticr'rs ainl piTsons perform- intr similar duties in tln' slate of .Nebraska. Ser. 22. That all cases of appeal or writ of error heretofore prosecuted and now pending in Itie Supreme Court of the United States upon any record from the supreme court of either of the Territories mentioned in this act. or that may hereafter lawfully be prosecuted upon any record from eilhei' of said courls may he heard and determined by said Supreme Court of the United States and the mandate of execution or of further pro- ceedings, shall be dii-ected by the Supreme Court of the United States to the circuit, or district court hereby established within the State suc- ceeding the Territory from which such record is or may be pending, or to the supreme coinl of such State, as the nature of the case may require: PROVIDED, That the mandate of execution or of further lu-ocecdings shall, in cases arising in the Territory of Dakota, be directed by the Supreme Court of the United States to the circuit or district court of the district of South Dakota, or to the supreme court of the State of South Dakota, or to the circuit or district court of the district of North Dakota, or to the supreme court of the State of .Xortli Dakota, or to the supreme court of the Territory of North Dakota, as the nature of the case may require. .\nd each of the circuit, district, and State courts, herein named, sliall, respectively, be the successor of the supreme court of the Territory, as to all such cases arising within the limits embraced within the jurisdiction of such courts respectively with full power to proceed with (he same, and award mesne or final process therein: and that from all judgments and riecrees of the supreme court of either of the Territories mentioned in this act. in any case arising within the limits of any of the proposed States prior to admission, the parties to such judgment shall have the same right to prosecute appeals and writs of error to the Supreme Court of the United States as they shall have had by law prior to the admission of said Slate into the Union. Sec. 23. That in respect to all cases, proceedings, and matters now pending in the supreme or 'district courts of either of the Territories mentioned in this act at the lime of the admission into the Union of either of the Stales mentioned in this act. and arising within the limits of any such State, whereof the circuit or district courts by this act established might have had jurisdiction imder the laws of the United Stales had such courts existed at the time of the commencement of such cases, the said circuit and district courts, respectively, shall be the successors of said supi-eme and district courts of said Territory: and in respect to all other proceedings and matters pending in the supreme or district cases courts of any of the Territories mentioned in this act at the time of the admission of such Territory into the Union, arising within the limits of said proposed State, the courts established by such state shall, respectively, be the succes- sors of said supreme and district Territorial courts; and all the files, records, indictments, and proceedings relating to any such cases, shall be transferred to such circuit, district, and State courts, respectively, and the same shall he proceeded witli therein in due course of law: but no writ, action, indictment, cause or proceeding now pending, or that prior to the admission of any of the States mentioned in this act. shall he pending in any Territorial court in any of the Territories mentioned in this act, shall abate by the admission of any such State into the Union. h>it the same shall he transferred and proceeded within the proper United Slates circuit, district or State court, as the case may be: PROVIDED. HOWEVER, That in all civil actions, causes, and proceedings, in which the United States is not a parly, transfer shall not be made to the circuit and district coiu'ts of the United Stales, except upon written request of one of the parties to sucli action or proceedings filed in the proper court: and in the absence of such request such cases shall be proceeded with in the proper State courts. Sec. 2'i. That the constitutional conventions may. by ordinance, provide for the election of officers for full State eovernmenis including members of the legis'afures and Rejiresenfatives in the Fifty-first. Congress: but said Slate governments shall reniain in abeyance tmtil the States shall be admitted into the Union, respectively, as provided in this act. In case the cnnslilulion of any of said proposed States shall be ratified by the people, but not otherwise, the legislature thereof may assemble, organize, and elect two Senators of the United States: and the governor and secretary of state nf such proposed state shall cei-fify the election of the Senators in k.nai'.i.im; act aiiil Hi'pri'si'iilal i\rs in thr niMiim r ri'ijuii'i'd liy kiw : and wIiimi sni-li Stall- is aiiniiltcd inio thr Union, llir Senators and Hcpri'sciilaliM's shall hi' entitli'd to he admilli'd lo scats in Confiress. and to all thi- ri^ihts and iirivih'gos ol' Scnalni's and Rf'iH'fsentativfs o\ other States in the Congress of tlie United Slates; and the otfii'ers of the State gnvei-iuneids formed in pursuance of -said constitutions, as prf)vided hy the constitutional conventiiins shall pi-o- ceod to exer'cise all the functions of such Stale officers: and all laws in force made liy said Territories, at Ihe time of theii' admission into the Union, shall he in force in said States, except as modified or changed hy this act oi- hy the constitutions of the States, [•especlively. 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O o u t. u 000 000 ££H o o a< t-ut,!- fc.t-t.--t.r- 00000c 0*3 cr " g 5 -. -• - ffl d dW~ d- - ^ ~ C-. - n t= cc jjC -ccccccc 0) ^ *j ^ _^ *j d ■:-, -. J, _^ i a; oj ■li fli ^ O0 o 1^ a *: D OJ 0) C C i* d3^ S o t. d>. 2- ji c 0-5 o 3J 5^ d£ O'-tOiHa! go c o t- o 3x: o o ►-5 03 M «> t- ao Tj- QO oc I/: ac ?s f- 00 00 CO GO 00 00 oc 01 93 0000 0000 =S — J ■- t. CK;>d ddc^ i5o»go'K§5o c C 5 -- — ^ — c: ^* g=ft=Sj«aa il rr c as -la is S a- • ■ ^ "a gg-E* PwotC c C J) tile n- from 12 to 1 o'clock. Are you ready for the question? The amendment was then put and carried. Mr. Collins of Cascade: Mr. Chali'tnan. I would suggest that to expedite matters a committee of credentials be appointed at this session. The record ought to show that some committee, or the Convention itself, has passed upon the credentials of the membei's. The motion was duly seconded. The chairman staled the motion. Mr. Hickman of Madison: 1 scarcely think it is necessary to appoint a committee on credentials. The ofticial count has been made lu're by the secretary and governor, and the official list presented here, and I hardly think it is worth while asking tor the credentials, when they have already been certified to by these officers as the members who hn\o bi'en elected. I hardly see the necessity for it. Mr. Middle! on of Custer: It seems to me that it is eidirel\' unnecessary that there sliould b(.' a committee on credentials. The very act umler which the delegates were eleclefl and authorized to assemble here provides that the secrelary of the Teri'itoi'\- should be the fierson to issue to the jkm'sous elected Iheii- certificates of (■lecliiii\. That has been done. The secrelary himself, in person, has assembled Ibis conxenlinn, calli'd it to order anil FIELDING L. GRAVES CHARLES E. CONRAD WILLIAM J. KENNEDY JOSEPH K. TOOLE GEORGE B. WINSTON JOSEPH HOGAN CHARLES H. LOUD CONSTITUllO.NAI. C.O.WlvM'lO.N IKSVl 17 calU'il llioso iiami's. TIkisp iini'sons who were pri'scnt wlmsc names were calli'd lia\(' licpu sworn, and it socnis lo mo that the inaltci' of a committee on cri'denlials is entirely unnecessai'v. Mr. Callaway of Madison: II might he right for me to say in addilion t.c what the gentleman from Custer has slateil here, that thereis no contest here, tliere is no disagreement or [irolest hy anybody, or anything of that kind, and it would seem to me wholly unnecessary, at! this stage of the pro- ceedings, that a committee on credentials should be appointed. The officiT duly authorized and appointed liy thi' act of congress has certified the credentials of the members of this body, and has also certified that those who have responded to Ihe roll call of the clei-k liere were entitled t(i seals as members of this body. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I will second the niolion. as I understand a deliberate body of tiiis kind is the judge of who are its members. No one else is authorized to judge of the qualifications of its niembei's. ^^'hi!e the secretary may know who are the members of the constitutional Convention from the official records in his office, what does this Convention know about it That is the question. It is not what the secretary knows: but it is what this convention knows: and in my judg- ment this Convention should have a committee and receive the credentials of the members of the Convention and make a report, and it should be determined who they are and they should be enrolled as such. .Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I would like to ask in the event of this committee being appointed, what credentials do we present to that com- mittee? The secretary has already certified to those who are elected to this body and I presume — I have, I suppose we all have, from the secretary or County Clerk of our respective Counties a letter of credentials. Now this committee on credentials, which credentials are they to pass judgment upon, the credential of the secretary or the credential of the County Clerk, which of these two is the essential? Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clark: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me unneces- .sary to appoint a committee on credentials. The names of the delegates elected have been taken, and they have taken the oath. They are. i)re- sumably, at least, members. .\ow in all bodies of this kind, it has been the custom to appoint among the standing committees a committee on privi- leges and election, and if Ihei'e should be at any time a dispute as to Ihe right of any- person to his seat, that case would be referred to that com- mittee, and be reported upon in Ihe customary way for the transaction of business by such a body. Theretoi-e it seems lo me entirely unnecessary to appoint a committee: that nothing would be gained by it: and that if there were a disputed seat, the committee on privileges and election would be the committee to pass upon it first and the Convention afterwards. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that thei'e has been no notice of contest: that there is nothing for a committee to act upon. The Convention is not here to raise any questions. The list of me.mbers has been furnished by the secretary w^ho called the Convention to ortlei'. the names have been duly recorded, the roll has been called anri the members have responded to it and have taken their oath of office, and it seems to me thai it would be a work of supererogation to appoint a com- niittee on credentials here when there is nothing for it to do. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: The gentlemen do not seem to meet the point that I raised on Ibis question, and that is this: We are a Convenlion liere selected from tlie people of Montana Territory lo form a constitution and have been elected in pursuance of law. and we are the ones to judge who are the members of this Convention, and Ihe very thing that the gentlemen assert here, that we coukl have a committee upon elections, and that that committee should determine who is elected to this Convention, if there was any contest, shows that this Convenlion is the judge of who are tlie officers of the Convenlion and who are the members elected to the Convention: and it seems lo me entirely pi'oper that we should have a committee of that kind. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: 1 noticed upon the reading of the call Ihat several names had to be corrected. Now. Ihat is one point in favor of Ibis committee: and another point is, that this list wliich has been brought here is not under the great seal of Ihe Territor\- of Montana. The badge of our right to sit in Ibis Convenlion is. it strikes me, the certificate of the gov- ernor with the great seal of the Territory attached, and if that be presented here, then this Convention will know the names of every member of this 18 1'H(I(;kki)Im;s and dkiiaiks (IiiiiMMitidii iitid \\i' will l.ikc mil ice (Uirsi'lvi'-; nl' wlio an' llic niPinbers of this Cciiivcntiou. It strikrs iiic lliaL lliis is a prcliiiiiiiaiy matter, simply {•ailiniir Iiic roll, and in Ihal mistaki's may lie madi'; Iml Ihi' ciMliticatc hear- iiiK tlip seal of the govfiMior and thi' secrclary of llii' Territory bears upon its face the verity of the fad that we are elected and entitled lo seats in this body, and I do not think that list is any such evidence, and 1 do not think Ihal it should be receixcd here. I don't Ihink we can make ourselves anv loo solid in this Conxention. and this commitlee will ini'onvenience us but liltle. Mr. Hurleixb of (luster: 'I'lie jicnlb man atlemiiled lo speak, bul could rot be heard, on account of the noise and the band ouldoors. The Chairman: The ('.bail' is unable to bi'ar llie remarks of the f;enlle- nian from Custer. The Chairman: The (|ueslion is upon ihe motion of the g-enlleman fi'om Cascade (Mr GollinS', thai the Chair appoint a committee on creden- tials: the number of that committee was not suggested at the time (In- terrupted i. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: Committee of seven. Tbi' Chaii-man: Thai a commiltee of credentials consisting of seven members be appoiuled. Are you ready for the cjuestion? (The question was then stated., Mr. Bickford of Missoula: Will Ilie chairman please rciieat the ques- tion? The Chairman repeated the motion. The Chairman: The Chair is in doubt: those who are in favor of Ibe motion will please rise. The Chairman: Twelve gentlemen \oic in the affirmalive: those opposed will rise. Evidently there is a ma.jority. and the motion is lost. Mr. Eaton of Park: Mr. Chairman, I m(ne you, sir, Ihal this Coinenlion now ad,joui'n. The motion was dvily seconded. The Chairman: It is moved and seconded that the Con\ention do now adjourn. .•\s many as are in favor will say aye. those opposed, no. 'ibe motion is carried and this Con\ention is now ad.journed. Convention adjourned until I oClock 1'. M. thi' Tilb day of .luly. A. I). 1889. SECOND D.W. Friday, .Tuly 5. 1889. The Hon. Joseph K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, temporary President, in the Chair. Convention called to order at 1 :2,j P. M. The President: The (^hair has been informed that there are a numbei- of nu'inbers of this Convention present who were not here yesterday. The Chief .Iiistice of the Territory is present and will now administer the oath (if ollice lo such (d' those as were iiol here at Ibat time, if tliey will come forward, .Ml'. Courtney of Silver How. and .Mr. llaiiiiiKnid of .Jeffi>rsou llicii came forward ami were sworn in by file Hon. Chief Justice Blake. The PresidenI: The Chair will lay before the Conveiilion foi' its iiiformalion the following telegrams which were received this morning. Mr. ttickards of Silvei' Bow: Before we proceed to business, believing, as I do. that it is eminently proper and rigiit, and because it is proper and right. I think we ought to commence these proceedings by calling upon some minislerial gentleman i)resent to open tin' exercises with pi'ayer: and I move yon, that tlie chair invite some minislerial gentleman who may lie present to open the exercises with prayer. The motion was duly seconded. The Chairman: It is moved and siM'onded that the chair invite some minister present to open these exercises with prayer. As many as are in favor of fhe motion will say .\ye. The ayes have it, and the chair will be bapiiy to iinile an> ministei' present to open these proceedings with prayer. Mr. Katon of Pai'k: I would suggest Ihal Rev. (ieorge ('.. Slull is preseni, and ask Ibat be be inxiled to offer prayi'r. CO.NSilirilONAI, l.O.W K.MION 1889 I!) Tlio Chairman: The invitation nl (li<> Convention is extended to He\. .Mr. Stall, and lie is invited tn open lliesc exercises with prayer. Re\. Ml-. Stull then olfered prayer. The Cliairman: The Clerk will now read, for the information of the Convention, cei-tain telegrams whirh have been received. The Clerk then read the following- telegrams: "Sioux Falls. Dakota, .July i. 1889. "President of the Constitutional Convent'ion: "South Dakota Constilufional Convention sends its greeting to Montana (Constitutional Convention. "(Signed .\. .J. EDGERTOX. President." "Olympia, W. T.. .July i. 1889. "Chairman of the Constitutional Convention: "Washington congratulates Montana on approaching statehood, and predicts that the stars of the new states will rise higli and be resplendent in the firmament, and that their lionorable fame will grow with the centuries. "(Signed) J. J. MOORE. President." "Bismarck, Dakota, July 4. 1889. "Constitutional Convention: "The Constitutional Convention of North Dakota sends greeting, and bids you God-speed in your advance movement towards statehood and full .-\merican citizenship. May the four new stars about to be added to the national flag not lose in brilliancy through lack of care in laying the foundations of the states to be. Let Washington bring fruit and flowers — .Montana, its precious metals — to add to the beauty and wealth of our nation: while Ihe Dakotas will bring wheat and corn for the people of the world, "f Signed J I-\ B. FAXCHER, President." The Chair: What is the pleasure of the Convention? Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clark: I move you. Mr. Chairman, that we accept the telegrams with our profound thanks and heartiest sympathies, and that the Chairman of this Convention, on behalf of the Convention, be authorized to return our thanks and to return like congratulations to our sister territories. The motion was duly seconded. The Chairman then put the motion as stated, and the same was duly carried. The Chairman: What is (he further pleasure of the Convention"? Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I move you. Mr. Chairman, that the Con- vention proceed to the election of permanent officers. Air. Eaton of Park: I only wish to suggest. Mr. Chairman, not with a sense of taking the floor, but with the gentleman's permission, that I think it would be proper to call the roll of this Convention. The Chairman: The Clerk will call the roll. The Clerk then called the roll. The Chairman: The motion is that the Convention do now proceed to the election of permanent officers. Js there a second to the motion? The motion was duly seconded. The Chair then put the motion as stated, and the same was duly carried. The Chairman: Nominations are now in order. Mr. Eaton of J^ark: Mr. Chairman, before nominations are made of any of the officers, would it not he proper for the Convention to determine just what offices are to he filled? Tt seems to nie that that would be better. It is a question we will have to meet and solve sometime, and. perhaps, just as well now as any time. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clark: Mr. Chairman, T would suggest that the law determines that, in the first instance and as soon as our perma- nent organizalion is effected, we will then, by resolution, have to provide for such officers as we shall certainly need in addition to those provided for. The Chair: On the suggestion of the member from Lewis A Clark (Mr. Magginnis\ the chair would state (hat the law under which wc are essembled defines such officers as we shall have. Nominations for perma- nent officers are now in order. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: Mr. President, and Gentlemen of the Con- vention: I rise to place before this Convention the name of Hon. ^^■. .\, Clark, of Silver Bow Gounty. Anything that I can say in commendation 20 PHOCKEDI.NdS AM) DKIiATKS of Mr. Clark I feel would be umie(_-essary, as I he f;eiitli'iiien of the Coiiveii- tiou, and indeed every one present, ai'e aware of his worth, his eneriry and his eminent fitness for the iilaee lor whieh I name liim: and wiial I desire to say is simply to hear testimony to his wortli ami eminenl fitness for the position. Mr. (Mark is a gentleman who has been prominently identified, and is prominently identified, wilh almost excry interest in the Territory. He is a genth'inan thai has served the jjeoide of Ibis Territory in many capacities, and one-I will only refer to one at Ihe iiresent lime — and that is as President of the Con\ention that assembled liece four years ago and formed a state con.slit,ution to abide admission inio Ihe Union. Mr. Clark was the presiding officer of that Convention: he went to the trouble and expense of iH'esenting that constitution to Ihe proper authori- ties at Washington, asking for the admission of Montana al that tim(^ as a si ate; and I venture to say, gentlemen, that there is not a man within the confines of Montana Terrilory that has done more to for'ward and hasten statehood than the Hon. W. A. Clark of Silver Bow County. The Chairman: Hon. W. A. Clark, of Silver Bow. is placed in nomi- nation. Are there any other nominations? Mr. Eaton of Park: In making a nomination for the position of perma- nent Chairman, I am actuated by the knowledge that my candidate, in his life and history — known to all men — needs no eulogy al my hands. His life and his history is Ihe life, or a part, at least — a prominent jjarl — of Ihe life and history of the Territory of Montana from its inception: and without further commendation I desire to present the name of the Hon. L. H. Hershfield. The Chairman: The Hon. L. H. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clark County, is placed in nomination. Ai'e thei'e any other nominations? Mr. Hickman of Madison: As a member of the County of Madison I desire to sav that this delesation takes jileasure in seconding thi> nomiiia- lion of Mr. L. H. Hershfield. The Chairman: Ai'e there any furthei' nominations? Mr. Middlelun of Custer: Mr. Pi'esident, T rise to second the iminina- tion of the Hon. W. A. Clark as Pi'esident of this Convention: and in doing so, I want to remark that no words from me could indicale to this C.on- vontion — who are as well, jf not better, each and every man, acquainted with l\Fr. Clark than I am -his (|ualifications and fitness for llial honorable posilion. The Cha'.roian: Is tiie Coiuenlion ready to cast their ballols? Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I move vou, Mr. Chairman. Iliat we pi'oceed to ballot. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I move you that we call Ihe roll, and that each gentleman resftond. The Chairman: If there be no objection the Clerk v>-ill proceed to call Ihe roll, and the memliei's will come forward and deposit their ballots. Mr. Eaton of Park: How is this, vive voca or ballot? Mr. Joy of Park: T move you, Mr. Chairman, thai we proceed to vole by ballot as we did yesterday, for the candidate of our choice. The motion was duly seconded. The Chairman put the motion. Division was called for'. The Chairman: As many as are in favor of the amendment will rise \inlil thev are counteti. 'J'he gentleman from Lewis & Clai'k (Mr. Maginnis' moved that the Clerk pi'oceed to call the names of the tnembers of the (convention, and upon Ihe calling of the names that the members amunince their preference. The gentleman from Park (Mr. Eatoni moves In amend, by voling hv ballot as the names of the members are called— thai Ihey approach Ihe Clerk's desk and deposit their ballots. The qneslion now is on the amendment of llie gentleman from Park to proceed to xole by ballot. , , . The Conveidioii then voted on the amendmenl. The vole resulleil in fhirly-nine voles in I be affirmative. Ihe \oles in Ihe ni'gali\e nol being ('0\mled. The Cbaii'inaii: The moleMi prevails: and as Ihe names nl Ihe mem bei's are called llie\ will approiich the Clerk's desk and ili'posil their liallols. The Chaii' llien appdinled as Tellers Messrs, .\iken and Hickards .d Silvei' Bow. . , The Chairman: ( Icnl lenieii cd' llii^ Convention, the I ellers i'e|HU'l as follows: Se\ cid v-seven voles have lieeil casl. of which — The Hon. W. A. Clai'k receives :W. 'I'he Hon. L. 11. Hershfield ri'ceives 32. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1880 21 The Hon. George O. Ealon receives I. The Hon. Martin Maginnis rereives 1. By your votes you have elerteil Hon. W. A. Clark President of this Convention. The Chair then appointed the Hon. Martin Maginnis. of Lewis & Clark, and Dr. Parherry. of Sleagher. to notify the Hon. ^^'. A. Clark of his eleetion as President of the Convention, and to escort him to tlie Chair. The Chairman: (ientlemen of the Convention, I have the honoi- and pleasure of introducing to you the Hon. W. A. Clark. The President then took the Chair and addressed the Cnnveiitinu as follows: Gentlemen of the Convention: I am deeply moved, and grateful beyond expression, for this manifestation of your confidence and respect. I fully realize that to be chosen the presiding officer of a Convention in which there are so many distinguished representatives of the people of Montana, and which has for its purpose Ihe framing of an organic law lor the fulure government of the state, is a rare and distinctive honor, of which any man may justly be proud. I am not unmindful of the grave i-esponsibilities and difficulties incident to Ihe position, and I accept it, relying confidently upon your indulgence and co-operation. We haVe readied an eventful era in the history of our country. Montana, whose origin in the wildest regions of the west over a quarter of a century ago some of you have witnessed, has, notwithstanding the disadvantages and embarrassments that attend a territorial form of government, experienced a phenomenal development, and stamis to-day without a peer among the territories, the gem and the pride nf the northwest. She is now about to put off the garb of territorial existence and assume Ihe dignity of statehood, and the work of this transition is confined to our hands. \Vhile we may well congratulate oursehes upon the honor that has been conferred upon us, we should be admonished that there are likewise most solemn and important duties imposed upon us. We are to build a structure that shall exist through the ages to come; that shall exert an influence for good or evil upon the destinies of generations yet unborn. It is a work which com- mends itself to our most serious consideration: a work which (diallenges the exercise of our best and noblest faculties — a work to which we should bend our best energies, and to which we should subordinate every selfisii, personal and partisan consideration, to the end that we may present a constitution that shall be worlh\ of the Stale; th;it shall be acceptable to the people, and that will enable Montana to embrace the golden oppor- tunity now first presented, and which, if neglected, may long be deferred, to take tlie proud position to which slie is entitled in the great sisterhood of states. T thank you. gentlemen, for the honor you liave conferred upon me. Mr. Collins of Cascade: Mr. President, in the matter of the election of permanent officers. I offer the following resolution: The Resolution was sent up to the President's desk, and read by Ihe Clerk, as follows: Resolved. That tlie following named subordinate officers be elected by the Convention: Chief Clerk W. H. Todd Engrossing and Enrolling Clerk G. H. Stanton Sargeant-at-Arms Samuel .Mexander Messenger Eugene Dickenson Chaplain H. E. Clowes ^^■atchman J. M. Kay Mr. Collins of Cascade: Mr. President. I move Ihe adoption of ilu' resolution. The motion was duly seconded. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Mr. President. T move the ailoplion of the following substitute: The substitute was sent to the President's desk, and read by the Clerk. as follows: Resolved. That the following named persons be declared elected sub- ordinate officers of this Convention: Chief Clerk James B. Wells Enrolling and Engrossing Clerk John R. Eddy Sergeant-at-Arms Capt. L. F,- Wyman Watchman George Lee Page Cornelius Hedges. Jr. Chaplain Rev. R. E. Smith 22 1'|{(m:ki;i)I.\(;s and dkhatks The sulistilute ol' the ycnileinaii I'mni t?il\c_T Bow was duly seconded. The I'fcsidcut : (icnlloinon. the cjucslioii is upon the siilislihitc (iffi'red by the genllcmaii from Silver Bow. Are you ready for the question? The Presideii!, thiMi put the question, and a division was called lor. whieh resulted as follows: Ayes. 33: noes, ,38. The l^residenl: Tlie amendment offered by the {rentleman from Silver Bow is lost; the queslion now is ui)0ii Ihr original msolutinn. Are you ready for the queslion? Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clark: I mo\ e you, sir, as an annnidmenl to this resolution, thai the officers for the different places named in the resolution be elected separately, and in the order named, and not con- .secutively. Mr. Klaginnis of Lewis i*i; Clark: I rise to the poini of oi'der. Mi'. President, that the gentleman is nol in order: that the question has already been submilled and a \ote taken on the division. Mr. Craven of Lewis c*c Clai'k: I \uidei'sland. Mr. President. Ibat w have taken a vote upon the amenilmeni offered, and Ibat the original resolution has not come forward: and until that time, other amendments will be in order. The President: The Chair sustains llie gentleman fi'nm Lewis & Clark (Mr. Craven). The President: The genthleman from Lewis & Clark offers an amend- menl — lliat the officers of this Convention be elected separatelv and bv ballot. Mr. 'J'oole of Lewis and (Hark: I call for the ayes and noes ui)on Ih" amendment. The vote was then taken, which res>iHed as follows: Ayes. 3."): noes, 35. The President: The amendment of the genlleman from liCwis iS: Clark (Mr. d'aven) is lost. The motion now is thai the names in Ihe resolution submitted by the gentleman from Cascade shall be declared elected. The President then put the motion, and Ihe same was duly carried. The Chair then slated that the Hon. Henry N. Blake, Chief Justice of the Terrilory, was ready to administer Ihe oath of office to the officers elected. The said officers appeared at the iiai' of the House, and were duly sworn in by the Chief ,Tustice. Ml'. Dixon of Silver Bow: Mr. President, T desire to offer a resolulion. The resolution was sent to the Clerk's de.sk. The President: The resolution offered by the genlleman from Silver Bow will now be read. The Clerk then read the resolulion, as follows: "Resohed, That the delegates in this Convention assembled do declare, on behalf of the people of tlie proposed State of Montana, that we adupl the Constitution of the United States." The motion was duly seconded by Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clark. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I desire to explain to the Convention, with reference to this resolution, that, unfler the .\cl, of Congress under which we are assembled, there is a provision that the delegates elected and assem- bled in the Convention shall declare, on behalf of Ihe people of Ihe Terri- tory, that they adopt tin- Constitution of the United Stales, and ttiereupon shall proceed to form a state constitution. I desire to read here the two lines in the fourth section of tlie Act in relation to Ihe subject. (The gentleman read the part of the Act referred to.) This, it would seem to me, undei' this law, is a prerequisite to proceeding to th(> formation of the constitution. Of course it is the desire of the whole Convention to comply as sirictly as possible with the proxisions of this .'Xct, and with that end in view I offer this resolution, and move its adoption before any other proceedings are had. The President: The question is upon Ihe I'esolulion ori'ered liy the gentleman from Silver Bow. 'Hie Chair then stated the question, and the motion was duly carried. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis tt Clark: Mr. President, would il ?iol lie nec(>s- sary to make a recoi'd upon this queslion? Mr. Hickman of Madison: I move thai the ayes and noes be callei\. so that there can be a I'ccord of the vote. The Clerk then called the roll. All of Ihe members iiri'senl. willinut exception, voted in favor of the resolution. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: Mr. President, T desire to offer another resolution. The I'esolution was sent to the Presideid's desk, and read by Ihe Clerk, as follows: C.O.NSTITLTIONAI. Ci ).\ VK.\ TION 1889 23 '■Rosolvcd. By this Convention, that iiornianont scats bp assignfd to tho inpmbcrs in the following- mannt'i': Slips of paper, numbered consecu tively from I to 25. inelusive. to correspond with the number of districts represented, shall be prepared by the Clerk and mixed together in a hat. 1'he Sergeanl-at-Arms shall draw the slips from the hat one at a time, and the members of the districts whose number corresponds with lln- number on the slip first drawn shall have the first choice of seats. Thi! members of the district whose number is next drawn shall have the second choice: and so on. until all the numbers are drawn from the hat. Members of a district may select seats adjoining or separate as they prefer. If any member of the district is not present at the drawinir. his associates from that district may select his seat." Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the resolution. The motion was duly seconded. The President stated the motion. .Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clark: Mr. President, there is one sugges- tion I would like to make. Under the resolution, as I undei-stand it. the members will all be occupying their seats. I move to amend, that when (he drawing commences, the members retire beyond the bar of the House, and when the names are drawn, select their seats and keep them until the drawintr is concluded, under penalty of forfeiture if vacated. The amendment was duly seconded. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I accept the amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move than an exception be made to this ■•psolulion. and that Mr. McAdow of Fergu.s. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow. and Mr. Parberry of Meagher, and also the President, be entitled to choose theii' seats. The amendment was duly seconded. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow:" I said nothing about that in the resolution, as I looked upon that as a matter of courtesy upon which there was no necessity of a resolution. Mr. ' Slapleton of Silver Bow: I would suggest the name of Mr. Robinson. Mr. Collins of Cascade also sugge.sted the name of Mr. Brown of Chofeau. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow a'so suggested the name of Mr. Marshall. Mr. Eaton of Park also suggested the name, of Mr. Burleigh, and Mr. Burleigh thereupon declined the courtesy. Mr. President: All the amendments to the original resolution have been accepted excepting the gentlemen from Silver Bow. from Meagher, from Fergus, from Missoula, from Choteau. and from Deer Lodge out of the number of those who shall select their seats by lot. The question now Is upon the original motion as amended. .\re you ready for the question? The President then stated the question and the same was du'y carried. The Clerk then proceeded to the drawing of the seats by lot, and the members took their seats according to the order of the choice drawn by the Sergeant-at-Arms. Mr. Toole of Lewis and Clark: Mr. President. I offer the following resolution: 'Resolution sent up. The President: The resolution offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clark will now be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read the resolution, a.s follows: "Resolved. That a committee of elp\en be appointed on rules and Order nf business, and that pemlinii the adopt ion of permanent rules, that the rules of the Montana Constitutional Conventiou of 1884 be adopted for Ihe temporary government, of this convention." Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clark: T move the adoption of the resolution. Motion was duly seconded. The President then stated the motion, and the same was duly carried. The Persident: I will name as the members of that commHtee. Messrs. J. K. Toole, Eaton. Cooper. Rotiinson, Carpenter, Knowles, Callaway. Middle- ton. Bickford. Warren and J. R. Toole. What is the further pleasure of the Convention? Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I desire to offer a resolution. Mr. President: The resolution offered by the gentleman from Missoula will now be read. Clerk read resolution, as follows: "Resolved, That it be the sense of this Convention that for Ihe purpose of expediting the work thereof, there be employed in addition to Ihe 2i I'H()(:kki)I.\<;s and debates f'iniiloycs alliiwcd by law, one official stenosraphor, one chicl' clei'k. fivi* aflditional cli'rks, who shall bo assignocl to siifh dnlics as may be found' must fxpedionf: thrpo pajfos to assist thf messcnj-'or in the iici'forniance (d' his duties, and one assistant sergeant-atarms. That such employes shall receive such compensation as may be provided by resolution of this Coinention." Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I mo\i. the adoption of the residution. The motion was duly second('(l. The President stated the motion and the same was duly carried. The President: The Chair would suggest that there be a committee appointed for the distribution of the work of this Convention. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i^ Clark: Does not that come under the jurisdic- tion of the rules on order of business? The President: It is a mallei' that requires considerable thought and care, and in order I" distribute this work properly, the Chair is of the opinion that a sepai-ale committee slmuld be aripointed for that purpose. Mr. Ijoud of Custer offered the following resolution, which was read by the Clerk: "Resolved. That a committee to consist of one member from eacii disti'ict be appointed to report to this Convention upon the best morle of proceeding, and including such commit lees as in its .judgment shall be necessary." Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clark: I would ask the gentleman offering the resolution if that is not alread>' covered by the resolution concerning the committee on I'ules and procedure which has .just been adopted? Mr. Collins of Cascade: T would like to have the resolution passed a moment ago re-read; I think it covers both the order of business and the rules. Clerk re-read the resolution. Mr. Loud of Custer: I would ask that the other resolution be now read. Clerk then read the resolution offered by the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Toole of I^ewis and Clark: I think it was the conlemp'ation, Mr. Chairman, that the committee on nUes should he charged with thai I'esponsibility. They seem to follow the rules of the old Convention and they provide for' the order of business, connnittees. etc. Of course I defer to the .judgnipnt of the Convention with reference to it; but I anticipated that at the time of the introduction of the resolution. The President: Is the resolution of the genllema!i from Custer seconded? A Member: T second the resolution. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I move to amend Ihe motion of the genlle- nian from Custer by sti'iking out "committee of one from each district" aiifl inserting "committee of five." The committee is entirely too largi'. A Member: I second the amendment. The motion was then stated by the President. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, it occurs to me that the T'l'scilution Ihat has just been adopted provides for the temporary use of the rules of the old Convention. I have no copy of those rules, but T suppose they provide for such circumstances and contests as are necessary. It seems to me that this is a matter that is somewhat in cdiiflirl with the resolution just adopted. Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clark: Mr. President, the resolution which has just been adopted provides Ihat the rules of the last Constitulional Con- vention ol' this Tei'rilory shall tie adopted tor the tenipoi':irv u'ln eminent of this Convention. Among other things those rules provide: 'Tlie gentlt>- man Ihen read Ibat part of Ihe rules of the Convention of bSSl relating to the committees."! Those are the standing committees as proviiied by the rules of the Convention. I think they cover the entire ground. Mr. Loud of Custer: ^^'ith Ihe consent of my second, I will withdraw my resolulion. Mr. President: Thei'c is nn amendment olTered to il wliirb is imv, before the Con\'enlion. Mr. Dixon of Silvei' Row: I withdraw Ihe amendmenl. The President: Tin' motion and amendment olTered by the gentleman from Custer is now withdrawn. What is the fvu'lher pleasm-e of thi> Cnnvenlion? Mr. Toole of Deer T^odge: Tn view of Ihe I'esolulion orfei-eij by llir gentleman from Missoula, I move you, sir, to proceed now lo Ibi' eli'ction of the extra officers emimerated in the resolution. Motion dulv sr'conrled. CO.NSIII'I TIONAI. Cd.W K.\ri().\ ISS!) 25 Me. (liilliiis (if Ca.^caili': Mr. Presidpilt, I iimvi' ;\-^ an anicniiinciil, llial we postpono Uif elcclion of tho officers mentioned until loniorrow inurn intr at 10 o'clock, wlicn \vc al lliat lioiir proceed to tin' election ni I lie officers. AniendnKMil duly seconded. Tile Cliair then stated the amendment, and the same was carried liy a vote of 32 to 23. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I would like to in(|iiin' it llie rules wliicli have just heen ado|)ted here are in existence so tliat the members can a\ail themselves of them. Then' should be some arrangement made whereby we can ha\e a coiiy. Mr. Toole of Lewis iS; Clajk stated for the information of the gentleman from Custer that tliere were no extra copies of the rules to be had. .Mr. Eaton of l^ark: I understand, Mr. l-'resident. that the rules under- which we are now acting provide that the hour for the meeting of the Comention shall be 10 o'clock in the morning. I therefore, since we can do no liusiness unlil this commiltee on rules make their report, move that we now adjourn. Mr. Stapleton of Siher Bow: It appears to me that a motion was made that we pi'oceed to elect the extra officers provided in the resolu- tion: then that motion was amended that that be postponed until to morrow morning. The motion as amended has never been put to the Convention. The President then stated the motion, which was duly carried. Mr. President: 'I'he tiuestion now is on the adjournment. The Chair then stated the question on the ailjournment, which w-as duly carried, ami the Chair then announced that the Convention stood adjourned until 10 o'clock on the morning of Saturday, July Cth, A. I). 1889. THIRD DAY. Saturday, July Gtli, 1889. The Convention called to order bv the President at 10 A. M. Clerk called the roll. The President: I would like the pleasure of the Convention upon the reading of the minutes at the present time. The Chief Clerk is somewhat confused in tlie multiplicity of his duties and is hardly in shape to present them at this time. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move that we dispense with the reading of the minutes until .^londay morning. The President: If there is no objection the reading of tlie minutes will be dispensed with until Monday morning. Mr. Toole of Lewis it Clark: Mr. President, the Committee on Rules have instructed nie to make a full report and ask for its present consid- (>ralion. (The report sent to the Clerk's desk.^ The President: The report of the Committee on Rules is before the house, if there is no objection it will be read. The President: The resolution offered by the genlli'man from Cascade will now be read. The Clerk read the resolution, as follows: Resolved. That the fol- lowing named officers be declared officers of this Convention: Chief Stenographer C. P. Connolly Watchman George Lee Clerk Jno. Kay Clerk -- Edward Kerr Clerk John Trumbull Clerk ;...E. C. (Tarrett Clerk .- Lee Swords Page \V. D. .Alexander Page Cornelius Hedges. Jr. Page M aurice Langhorne .Assistant Chief Clerk William Taylor |)oorki>eper and Asst. Sergt.-at-Arms....Wm. Greene The President: What is your pleasure concerning this resolution'? Mr. Loud of Custer: I move the adoption of the resolution. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clark: Mr. President, I think the resolu- tion offered ti\ the g-entleman from Cascade is at present uncalled for. -"Ci I'HOCKKIil.NCS AM) I )KHA IKS and 1 lliink it prciiK^' lliat fliis rt'sululioii should Iji' laid .in ih,. lahli': I (hprpfore makp tiiat inntinii. The- Pi'psidoiil: TIn' innlinn is nut lipl'drp Hip Iuhisp yrt. Is llic i-pso- lution spconded? Mr. Conrad of Clmlpau: I sci-ond the resolution. Mr. Collins of Cascadp: Mr. I'rpsidpnt, beforp tlip Convpulioii is railed to voIp upon tlip rpsolutioii I wish to say that that was made thp spprial oi-der ypstprday pvening for Ihis morning at 10 o'cdixdi and that thp officprs nampd in thp i-psoliition were the ones that the Convention provided for ypstprday at thp afternoon session. The President: It has bpen moved and seconded that the resolution as i-ead be adopted. 'I'he gentleman from Lewis <.V; (Hark (Mr. Hei'shfieldi mo\ps to lay Uip motion on thi' tablp. Mr. Callaway of .Madison: I second the amendmi'nt. The President then put thp amendment and decdared the samp lost. The President: The question is now upon the orifrinal resolution. Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clark: Mi'. Prpsident, let me inquii-e whethi'r the resolution embraces the name i\\ William L. (irpi'n for .Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms. The Clerk statpd that by pprmission of Mr. Collins of Caseadp the name of \\'illiam L. (ireen for Doorkeeppr and .Assistant Sergeanl-at-.\rms is inserted in the rpsolution. The Chair then put the molion, which was duly rarripd. The President: The report of the Committee on Rules will now be read if there be no objection. The Clerk then read report, nf Conmiiltee on RuIps. Mr. Toole of Lewds it Claris: .Mr. Pr(\sident. the Committee on Rules liaving under consideration the s\ibject of rules for the goveriunent of this body had beforp them the copy of the rules of the Constitutional Convention of this Territory in 1884 and it was the testimony of those who were members of that Con\enlion that the business of the Convention was disposed of orileriy and with dispatch under fhos(> rules: and we therefore look them very largely as they were. Some modifications have bppn recommended by tlie committee, among others one ridating to print- ing. Tnstpad of having printed generally all resolutions and propositions intended to be embraced in the constitution the committee Ihouglit it advisable that only such malter-s should be printed as should be reported ba(d< from a standing or select committee, and in case it wns rpportpd favorably if was to bp pi'inted as a matlpr of coursp, and in Hip pvphI it was rpporfpd adx'prsely thp printing of thp rpsolution or proposition was to bp within the discretion of the Convention. We provided furthpr that thp printing committpp should have control of the subject id' printing. In order that the original proposilinns and resolutions mighl iio| be lost or mislaid by going into tliP hands of thp jirinter we thought it advisable to pi'ovide that it should be the duly of the prinlini; comnultee to see Ihat certified copies of the matter were made and placed in the hands of the [u-intei- to be by him printed and returned as soon as jiossible: pi-ovided. however, that a greater numb(»r than 150 should not be printed. I believe that those arp substantially ttip (diangps and modifications made ill tile rules of the fornipr Convention, wilh the (i\ceplion Ihat vvi^ thought it advisable lo add to the numbers of the special commillpes wliiidi were providpil for by thosp rrdes. and I think we added alioul in Hip proportion of two or thrpp to each committee. Where it was llirei' we added so as to make it five and so along down the list of commit Ipps. Upon the rpading of tlip mips I fiiscover that one was omitted which was recommended by the commitlpe and which I will now ask lo present, and in connection with it ttial il may he presputed with those rules so Ihat when they are voled on they may all be considei'inl logptliei'. Mr. Tfprshfipld of I,pwis & Clark: Mr. PresidPiil, I would likp to ask Ihc Chairman of tlip commillpp in rpference to the rule relating lo the Prpsidpnt pro tpm. The rulp provides thai in the absence id' llie I'residriil Ihere shall be a Pi-psidptit pro tpni. Does that mean for Hip day or for the entire session of Hip Convention? Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clai'k: II will provide siiiiph- during the absenct^ of the President. The President: The additional rule I'ppoiicd by Hie ComiiiilliM^ on Rujps will now bo rpad. The (Ilerk read Hie rule. CnXSTllTTIONAL CO.WKNIK ).\ 1889 27 The President: Gentlemen, wiiat is your iileasurp conceriung the report of tlie Committee on Rules? Mr. BurhM:/h of Custer: Mr. President, it strikes me that one of the most impurtant committees here is the one on apportionment and repre- sentation, and il is one ot^athe smallest eonnnittc>es in point of numbers. I see that Ihe Connnittee on Mines and Mining has nine members, and tliat on .Apportionment and Hejjresentation seven members. I move to make the Committee on Apportionment and Representation eleven members. ■J'he President: I suggest to the gentleman from Custer that il mi^ht be well to receive this report and then lake it up. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clark: I move you, Mr. Chairman, thai Ihe report he received for the consideration of Ihe Convention. Motion duly seconded. 'I'he Chaii'man put the question and Ihe same was rluly carried. Mr. Huileigh of Custer: I now put my motion and ask that the Com- mittee on .Apportionment and Representation be increased from seven to eleven members. Motion was duly seconded. The President: " It is moved and seconded that the Committee on Apportionment and Representation be increased from seven to eleven members. Are you ready for the question"? Mr. Toole of Lewis and Clark: :>lr. Chairman, the Committee on Appor- tionment and Representation, as suggested by the gentleman from Custer, is certaiidy a vei-y important conmiiltee: but 1 Ihink it was the idea of the Commiltee on Rules that owing to the importance of the matter, and with the view of being able to have a lair representation of the members present, for the consideration of business. anctions are inlerested, and T believe tliat the conunilfee should include (he diverse views of the Conven- tion, and of the different portions of the Territory. T wou'd like to see it increased to eleven or fifteen. I make a motion, however, lo increase it to eleven. Rr. Burleigh of Custer seconded Ihe motion. The Chairman then stated the motion. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, it appears to me Ihal the gentlemen place a great deal of weight upon Ihe matter of the number- of persons upon a conmiiltee. Now I believe that so far as the powi'r and duties of committees in Ihe Conslitutional Convention are concerned, Ihey differ materially from similar connuittees in a legislative body, in Ibis, that I believe it is not wise on the iiart of a standing committee whose duty it is In stihmif arliides and sections proposed lo be incorporated in the constitidion, lo accompany those articles with anything but the mere statemeni thai that is their report; so that in increasing this committee to eleven from the sixteen counties in the Territory, does not give each county representation. If eAery county Is entitled to be heard, we had better have a membei- from each ccnuily. and Ihe more members ynu add 28 l'li(l(;KKI)l.\n occur that you can not get a majm-ily of that commitlee to act. and hence that these small committees are i-eally better whi're il is not necessary to ha\e a commillei' large enough to give special information of the different localities. In relation to towns and eilies. what is good for one town or city or cnunlv in this Territory, is going to be good for all. The rule is to be genei-al; il is not to be special: and I think that, it will be found that our commillees are really too lai'ge now. As to populai' represenlalion. the idea llial a conunillee which is to take up a innltcr and consider it. is to be a |)iip\Uni assembly, is news to me in a legislali\e body. We aic a popular assembh' lii>re. and tlie reports of these committees will be receix t'd in Ibis popular assembly: but when we come to consiiler matters in a coinmillee. it is a special tribunal, if I may use that woi'd, to frame and jiul Ihe senlimenis of this Convention into proper form and preseni them hi'i'e to be considered. Mr. Oillins ii( Cascade: Mr. I'l-esident, llii' Ciunniilli'e on Holes itself believes that im[)orlanl commiltees should have a large represenlalion. They have appointed I") upon Ihe ,ludiciai-y Conmullee. and II on two or Ihi'i IIht important conunitlees: and so liy their own report and by llieiT' iiwn iu-liou. Ihe\ say impoi'tant commilt(>es should have a large i-epi-esrnlal inn. Now J i-laiiii thai Ihi' Commilli n 'I'own, County and CO.NSTI ri llO.NAL r.OWK.N I lO.V IKS') :.'>) Cily ( io\ I'j-niiiriils — a cnnimittt'i' winch ri'imrls uiinu llic luiiilaiinMilal law for every cuiinty. every town and every cily in Montana — is on a pai' with the most inii)ui'tant eoinniiltpe upon iiie list, and that taking the policy ol' lhi> eonunittee itself as a basis, this eonnnitfee should he increased to a proportionate size. Now. the I'eiiort of any eonunittee in this conxention carries with it jiceat wei^iht. Their iM^port, vuiless fraught liy secret o|il)osili(in or liy a hu'j:(> majority, is liable to pass this Convention: and I feel that lliis coniniitlee liax ing to take into consideration these impor- tant matters, and take into consicferation the diverse views and sentiments (d' this Convention, and of the p<>ople hack of this Convention — I believe that instead of seven or eleven, it should be sixteen — one from each county. It may be necessary that the entire form cd' town, city and county govern- ments', in the interests of the future Stale, be cdianged, II may be neces- sary that they have a different set of officers, different safeguards, tlifferent policies and different systems, and it may be best, and I think it is best, to have ail the views upon Ibis ipiestion, ami have a large com- niiltee decide, and decide it promptly, so that when it conies before this CouM'ntion. we can take the format ivi» views ni this committee and pass them without lengthy debate. I believe this committee is a very important one. as important as the Judiciary Connnitlee itself, and a large committee shovdd consider the questions that will come before it, so that a majority can lay down a definite policy: and that definite policy laid down by this committee should be the policy of the Convention. Mr. Rickards of Siher Bow: ^\v. I'r'esident, there is one proposition that suggests itself to my mind that has not been brought out. It seems to me that in all probability the question of the holding over of county officers may come before this committee, anrj if so. it does seem to me thai, it would be well to have each county i-epresented on that committee: and I am sorry, indeed, while I am in favor of the amendment offered by my friend from Cascade — I am soi'ry that he dirl not make it sixteen, so that eaidi county might be represented on this committee. \\'e have come here fi'om our respective counties, having heard expressions from all sides u[ion this question, anil I believe, as tlie gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins) has said, that the reports of these committees are likely to be adopted. It is proper and right, and 1 believe it will expedite matters, if this committee can be increased to the number as enumerated by the penlleman from Cascade 'Mr. Collins : and therefore I favor the amend- ment. The Chair then stated the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade, and the same was declared lost. The President: What is your further pleasure concerning this report? Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I desire to offer an amendment to the last rule sent up by the committee — I do not know the number of it— but it has reference to resolutions to be incorporated in the Constitution beiiig read at length. I desire to offer an amendment to that, in addition, on the final passage, such resolutions or incorporations, or both, in all cases be taken by ayes and noes, and entered on tiie minutes. The President: There is an amendment offered by the gentleman from SUver Bow to Rule 29. Mr. Toole of Lewis i^ Clarke: I have conferred with a number of the committee, and I am authorized by them to accept this amendment. The President: The amendiu(Mit offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow has been accepted. Rule 29, as amended, will read as follows: The Clerk read the rule as amended. The President: The delegation from Cascade county, and also the gentleman from Meagher I'Dr. Parberry), wish to be excused until ISIonday afternoon next. Mr. Eaton of Park: Mr. President, Mr. Joy of Park county was unex- pectedly called away last evening, and T move that he be unanimously accorded leave of absense from last evening imtil Monday morning. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I would like to be excused from the session until 'I'uesday, on account of business of imiinrtance. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: Mr. President, woidd if not be well to know what time these members can come back, so that we can adjourn to that lime? Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: Mr. President, I moAc that when we adjoni'n. we adjoiu'n until 2 o'clock on Monday. The motion was duly seconded. The President then stated the motion, and the same was carried. ;:0 I'UOCKKDIMiS AM) DEBATES The President: The jioiilli'iiiaii Irom Silxer Bow will br rxcuscil until 'J'uesday, if tliere be no objection. .Mr. Toole of Deer Lodj-'e: Mr. Pre.sidenl, I desire to offer a resolution. The resolution was sent lo the Clerk's ilesk and I'l-ad. as follows: "Resolved, That a coinniittee, consisting of se\(>n nu'nibers. be added to the I'ules, and designated a (^lonnnillee on Labor." The motion was duly seconded. Mr. Toole of Deer Lodf;e: I presvuni' it is \unieci'ssai'\ , Mi-. l'i'i'sid(nit, lo say that there are a great niajoi'ity of our people in this 'I'crrilory who may be designated as laboring men, and a majority of the men who will pass upon this constitution are men who are known and di'signaled as laboring men; and it is only just and proper that we should recognize these men and gixc llicin recognition. For that reason I have suggested this resolution. The l^resident put tln' question, and the same was duly carried. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Mr. President, there is one slight change in the rule relating lo reconsideration, if I understand it, that I think might properly be cori-(>cted. There is a little apparent obscuritx in the nialtcr-, and I would like to have the lule read. 'J"he Clerk read Rule i2. Mr. Burleigh: I thiidv, Mr. I'li'sidcnt. in order to make il a little plainer, the word "majority" should be strickfn out, and "any member wlio voted in the affirmative" should be substituted. That is the usual phraseology in rules of that kind, and of course, while it may he under- stood, it is" not as clearly expressed as I would like to have it. Mr. Toole of Lewis c^ Clarkn: Mr. President, I do not Ihink there can be any objection to the change, but the rule as stated is taken verbatim from one of the rules of the House of Representatives: I think il is unam- biguous as it stands, and that the language employed is the proper language. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I\rr. President. I withdraw my amendment. The President: The amendment of the gentleman from Custer has been withdrawn. Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I move, Mr. President, that the report of the Committee on Rules, as amended, be now adopted. The Chair stated the motion, and the same was duly put and carried. The President: A resignation has been handed in, which the Clerk will read. The Clerk then read the resignation of Mr. .John Kay as watchman, and the resignation was duly aci'epled. Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, the rules which have just been adopted provide that all printing of the Convention be done under the direction and control of the Committee on Printing. I presume the President of this Convention will not be able to amiounce the com- mittees before Monday, and, in view of the fact that the members gener- ally desire to have a copy of the resolutions, I move that the Clerk of this Colixention be authorized to ha\e printeil two hundred copies of the resolutions adopted by the Convention today, as sooti as practicable, so that we may be able to have Ihem here on Monday. The motion was seconded. The Chair then staled the motion of llie geulleman from Lewis i^ Clarki'. Ml'. Bickford of Missoula: 1 move an amendment b\ adiliir.: Ili(> words "that the- rule be suspended." The report of the cnnmullee has been adojiled and it is necessary to suspend the rules. Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: T accept the amendment. The Chair then put the motion, and the same was dul\- cnrried. The President: The gentleman from .lefferson County iMr, Bollard desires to be excused imlil Monday: if there he no objection lea\e of absence will he uranted liiin. Mr. Mc.Xdow of l-"(M-gus: Mr. President, would il not be adxisable to sw(>ar in the additional officers of the Convention? The President: The Chief .lustice announces that the nuMubers can be sworn in in his office after the ailjournment of the Convention. The additional (d'ticers elected will wail upon llie lion, .lodge Blake and be swoi'n ill, at his convenience. IMr. Magimiis of Lewis and C.iarlse: 1 move that we now adjourn. The motion was dulv secomled and carried, and the ConviMition ad- joui'ned until Mondav, .liilv S, |S,^(), at ,' o'clock P. M. CO.NSirn TKINAI. CONVK.N riON 18K9 .31 F(H iriH DAY. Jloiulay, July Stii, KS^S9— 2 O'clock P. M. CoiiviMilioa called to order, tlie President in the Chair. The Clerk called the roll. 'I'he I're.sident: I would say to the t,'enlleinen of the Conveiituui. tliat Mr. Knipiienberg asks to be excused until tomorrow, also Mr. McAdow and Mr. Brown. Mr. Toole ol' Deer Lodge: Mr. Gaylord of Silvei' How desires In lie excused this afternoon. The President: If there he no ohje(dion these gentlemen will be excused. The Chaplain then offered luavers. Mr. Eaton of Park: Mr. President, it it be in order, I would suggest that Mr. Fields of the Twentieth Distrir-t is now present, and if the time is aiipropriate it would be well that he should take the oath in order to take part in the proceedings of. the Convention. The President: The gentleman from Pai'k will please come forward and take the oath of office. Mr. Fields of Park was then sworn in by the Chief .Justice. The Clerk read the journal of the first days proceedings, and. after one or two corrections, the minutes were approved. The Clerk then read the minutes of the second day. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & C.larke; Mr. President, as Mr. Fields, the member from Park, was unavoidably detained by an accident, I would ask the unanimous consent of the Convention, in case he wishes to do so, Uiat he be allowed to have his name placed among those adopting the Constitution of the United States. The motion was duly seconded, staled and carried. Mr. Fields' name was called, and his name was inserted in the minutes as voting in the affirmative on the resolution adopting the I'.onsfilution of the Uniled States. The Chair announced that there being no objection to the journal of ibe second da> She same stood approved. The journal of the third day's proceedings was then read. Mr. Middleton of. Custer: Mr. President, it s(>ems to me that tliei'e is one part of the minutes that i~ nol, sufficiently specific. If says that an amendment was proposed by Mr. Toole, and it seems to me that it was an amendment to a rule. If does not appear' whether it was an amendment to a motion or to a rule: as a matter of fact, it was an amendment to a rule. I think the words "amendment to the rule" should be inserted, and I so move. The motion was duly seconded and carried. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, it has been suggested to me that the amendment should be worded somewhat differently, so as to read "an amendment to the rejiort of the Committee on Rules." The Clerk then reail the minutes as amended. There being no further objection to the minutes of the third day's proceedings, the President announced that they stood approved. The President: The Clerk will lead a cominunicatinn. The Clerk then read as follows: "Helena. .Montana, July 8. 1889. '■'To the President and Members of the Constitutional Convention: "The .Annual Conference of the Methodist Episcopal Church of Montana. in conference assembled, sends greeting, and by their committee extends a cordial invitation to attend a lecturi' upon the issues of the hour, from a temperance standpoint, to be delivered by Dr. A. B. Leonard of New York, this afternoon at » o'clock, in St. Paul's .M. E. Church, opposite the Court House. Respectfullv submitted. (Signed) M. J. HALL. GEORGE M. RYDER. Committee." The President: The Chair desires to state in this connection that he is not yet quite ready to announce the committees, but will be ready tomorrow morning; or. if it please the Convention to hold a meeting this evening, I will be ready to announce the committees this evening, at any time they may fix. Mr. Toole of Lewis t resolulion. as follows: "lAesolution on Preamlde: \V(>, the people of Montana, grateful lo Almitihiy God for our freedom, in order lo secure its blessings, and a more independent and perfect governmenl, establish justice, insur(> tramiuilily. jiroxide for Ihe common defense, promole the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty lo ourselves and i)Osterit,\', do ordain and eslablish this Constitution for ihe Slale of Monlana." The PresidenI: If I here be no objections, Ihe resolulion offered by the i^eiillemaii from Lewis t'v: Clarke will be referred to the Committee on I'reandile ami Bill of Ri-bls. CUXSTlTiriMXAI. C.O.NVK.MIO.N 1889 33 Mr. Burleig-li of Custer: Mr. Cliaii'inan, I desire to offer the followiuj,' resolution, and ask tliat. the rules be suspended if necessary. The President: The gentleman from Custer offers a resolution. Clerk read the resolution, as follows: Resolved: That a committee to consist of eleven members be added lo the standing cnnmiiltees of this Convention, to be known as "Tlii' Commillee on Irrigation," to which committee shall be referred all ma(tiM-< pertaining to the subject of irrigation, coming before this body. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 mo\ i' Ihe suspensiiui of the rules and llir adoption of the resolution. .Motion seconded by Mr. Loud of Custer. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I mov(; that the resolution be referred to the Committee on Agriculture to report at as early a day as possible. Mr. Mulh of Lewis iS: Clarke seconded the motion. The Chair stated the question and the same was put and carried. Mr. Stapleton of Silver Bow: Mr. President, the Judiciary Committee is one of the largest and most important of the committees, and probably will have as much or more work to do Ihan any other of the committees: therefore I move that a Clerk be assigned to the Judiciary Committee. The motion was duly seconded. The Chair slated the motion. Mr. Middlelon of Custer: Mi-. President, it seems to me that the Judiciary Committee ought to be entitled to s'^lect its own clerk. If there is any choii-e in the matter of clerks, it appears to me it ought to be left with the conunitfee. The President: That may be done by having leave of the Convention, according to Rule 35. Mr. Stapleton of Silver Bow: Mr. PresidenI, I do not mean by this motion that we should have an additional clerk to those already appointed: but I meant that one of the five should be assigned to the Judiciary Committee. The Chair re-stated the motion and the same was declared carried. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move that one of the clerks already ap- pointed be assigned to Committee Number 7 — the Committee on Finances of the State. The motion was duly seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The President: I would ask the gentleman from Cascade if it is meant by his motion that the committee shall have a clerk for the exclusi\e use of that committee? Mr. Collins of Cascade: T think the committee will need the exclusive use of a clerk: but when there is no necessity for his services, they will be turned over to the Convention. The President: According- to your resolution then, it would give the committee the preference of the clerk so long as he was required by the committee. Mr. Eaton of Park: Mr. PresidenI, it seems to me as though some general rule ought to be adopted on this proposition. Here are five clerks nnd many committees. These clerks are lo be assigned. The first five conmiittees that shall ask for clerks will probatily receive them, and Ihe remaining committees will have no clerk, and in some way — T am not prepared to make the suggestion, even; but it seems to me as though some general rule should be adopted whereby these clerks could be used by all the committees. T suppose it would not be iiraclicable to confine one clerk to any given committee. It might be bard work for the clerk: but T presume they should he divided aroiuid and used on the several com- mittees. As T say, T am not prepared to make the suggestion. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: As I recollect, that was the under- standing that the adoption of the rules provided, that if each committee fould not have its own clerk, he should be assigned to the committees for duties to be pi'rformed. subject to Ihe directions of the chairman of Ihi' Convention. The President: The Chair will state the motion, which has been moved and seconded, that one of the clerks selected by this Convention be assigned to Committee Number 7. Mr. Toole of Lewis t^t Clarke: I think it is perfectlv apparent from what has been said by the genlleman from Park that if the assignment of these clerks is made at this time, the result will be that there will he about 19 committees, of which 17 will feel that each is iiuite as important as the other, and that 17 will he left without any clerk, and the result 34 . PHOCKKDI.VCS AM) l)l<;HArKS of this will be. iH'iiiaps. lo cxciti' some feeling, ami at least, a great deal of inconvenience and disparity between these committees; and 1 therefore move as an amendment. Mr. President, that the President of this Conven- tion he authorized lo assign the clei'ks to the several eonnnittees from time to time as his judgmenl shall dictate, in ordi'r to secure the speedy transaction of business. Motion was seconded. The President: It has been moved and seconded that the Pi-esident of the Convention be authorized to assign the clerks to the several com- mittees as in his judgment he may deem it expedient to do so. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I would like to ask the genlleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toolel, the mover of this amendment, if his amend- ment refers to the additional clerks. By the action of this Convention we have already assigned one of these clerks to the .ludiciai'v Commiltee. Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: So far as I am concerned. T am willing that the Judiciaiy Commiltee shall have one clerk. They will have the greater part of the work, and while I am expressing but my own views with reference In Ihis, I am willing, so far as T am concerned, that that committee shall be entitled to a pei'manenl clerk, and Ihat the other four shall be assigned from time lo time as the several committees shall I'cquire. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I believe it is right that T should express to the Convention at this early day my opinion, thai it is a very unfortunate and untoward circumstance that we have a top-heavy coiiuiiiltee. and I hope that it- will not remain top-heaxy during the session of the Conven- tion. Now I am perfectly willing that Ihe Chair shall dislr'iliute the clerks to the other cotiimittees as they ai'e entitled to them: b>it I believe it is not right that Ihe commillee with the most member's on it, with the most, taleni and wilti the most easy flow of gi'aceful language, and the commit- tee that even if it does endeavor so lo do. will probably influence and control the action of this Convention during its entire session, should start in by trying 1o monopolize the working force of the Convention. My motion is certainly withdrawn in favor of the genlleman from Lewis & Clarke, and T wisli only this early in the Convenlinn to express my regret that some committees are so very large, and others so very small: some have such very great influence, and others such very small influence. T withdraw my motion. Mr. Toole of Lewis i^ Clai'ke: Mr. Pi'esidenl. if Ihe grnlli'inan wllb draws his molion, llien I make tliat as an original motion. The President: The motion having been atnended and Ihi' aincndmcnl withdrawn, if the gentleman accepts the amendment il will stand wilh Ihe original resolution. The qm'slion now is U|ion Ihe resolution as amended. The Chair then p\il the nnilion and Ihe same was carried. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Pi'esidenI, I desire to ask whether any resolution has been adopted regarding the subject matter of the pro- posed conslilution into sections, and referring il lo those various com- mittees, whether Ihe committees will lake chai-ge as indicated by their titles without nn\ further action of Ihe Convention, or whether it shall be decided by the Chaii'man, as the different motions are to he considered. The President: The Chair will stale that there has been no resolution passed as to Ihe distrilnil ion rd' the business of the differeni committees. The Idle of the various commillees will indicate Ihe work which shall properly go to them. Is there anything furthei' lo be presented to Ihis Convention this morning? Mr. Toole of Deer Lodge: Mi'. Presidenl. 1 niovr lliat we liike a recess until 2 o'clock this P. M. Mr. Middleton of Custer: If the gentleman will withdraw his molion for- a moment, I desire to say as a member of the Pi'inting Committee to Ihe members here present, that, if (>ach member will furnish some member of the commillee with a memorandvun of Ihe distance traveled, or the place from which he traxeled. il. will aiii Ihe conmiillee in gelling at the matter of mileage, and leave the mailer to be settled as soon as possible. ^^'e deem il necessary to gel; the nialler into the shape of a I'esolut.ion. if Ihe Tuemhers will tak(> if upon themselves to do so. that we may have some basis lo aid us in arriving al Ihe conclusions. The Presidenl: The chairman of Ihe Commiltee on Prinling. Mileage and Contingent I'^xpenses requesis of the memtiei's of this Convention Ihat they i)resent lo Hint commiltee all data concerning mileage, and all other maitei's pertaining lliei'eid. The Chair would ur'ge upon the members CONSTITLIIONAL CO.NVE.MK ».\ 188<) 35 a prompt compliance with the request of (he Printing Committee. Is there a second to the gentleman from Deer Lodge to take a recess? A Meinher: I second the motion of the gentleman. The Chair then put the motion and the same was duly carried, and the Convention look a recess until 2 o'clock P. M. 2 o'clock p. m. The President called the Convention to order. The Clerk called the roll. The President: I would state to the Convention that the gentleman from Jefferson comes as import- ant to know where il is to be ])aid from as it is to draw Ihe checks. Then, it is ahsoluteh- certain that the provisions of this acl <<( Congress, this enabling acl has made no provision of that character. WC arc not author- ized to employ parlies to piM'form this extra service and draw upon the fund of the Ignited Slates for the purpose of iiaying the expenses of this Convention. If we present our order in favor of Ihese parties for this service, ilii' Scci'cl.'iiN nf Ihe Territory will simply refuse p.iymeiil of it. C.ONSII II rid.NAl. i:o.\VKMI().\ I.S,S9 J7 which lie has a legal right {<> do. l-'mni the exaniinatioii nl this question which I ha\e giv(Mi it. I am salisl'ieil thai he would he justified in retusin.s to pay these hills. Then the next question arises, what power has this • '.onvenlion to appoint any other hody of men. or what fund has it to draw upon? -None whatever, except what is appropriated hy the Congress of the United Stales. Now th(m. we have no power to liind a future Legis- lature of .Montana, to compel them to mak(> an appii)i)riation to pay these hills; we liave none whatever: it becomes only a matter of discretion and magnanimity, or generosity, on the part of a future Legislature to foot (he bils that we may incur. Then I say that this resolution, ami the whole thing, contemplates a matter that is Ijeyond our reach. It is \ery easy to pass a i-esolution iiisliucling the Stenographer to do this work, but the next question arises, how is he to get his pay for it? I say there is abso- lutely 110 provision whatever for the payment of these expenses incvuTed. If the 'Stenographer sees fil to chance a future Legislature to meet these bills, that becomes a question for his consideration alone, but we have no power now to pay him a farthing for anything he does, nor have we the power to i)ay some of these other officers that we have employed. Then I say. for these reasons, it seems to me it is impolit'c to leap inio contracting debts that we have no power in Ibe world to liquidate. Then, unless it was something that was so absolutely essential that it could not be dispensed with, we have got to make some provision, in some way for paying it: but these are expenditiu'es that, it seems to me, are not absolutely essential. Our Chief and .\ssistant Clerk report all the proceedings of this Convention that are essential. They are read from day to day. as they are taken, and they suffice for the i)ractical purposes of the Convention: and what is beyond that, that the Stenograjjlier must i-eport to Ibis Convention, is just simply what I am saying at the present lime — what each of the gentlemen are saying — and what is to lie reported tomorrow moi-nins and read. II is lime consumed, for all thai Ibe gentlemen of the Convention can hear and know what it is that is .i'oing on. and I imagine it will be no very great benefit to them to re-i'ead tomorrow morning what has been said today in this C.onvention. .\nd then I say that it is not a matter of absolute neces- sity, and. as we have not the means to pay for it. it seems to me it would not hr' wise to have it done. For these reasons I am opposed to it. Then, as lo the other resolution, the suggestion that would be embodied supple- menting the proposition now before us. 1 would have something lo say upon that which it is not necessary to sav at the present time. But. it seems to me that, as the resolution now stands, it is requiring an impos- sibility of the Stenographer, because he cannot report these proceedings and have them ready by tomorrow morning: it would take the work of four men, constantly employed — four Stenographers with compensation at Stin "^er day — to do what is contemplated in this resolution. Mr. Collins: As the whole matter is before the house, both the rlufy of the Stenographer and the compensation of the extra clerks already selected by this body. I offer, with the consent of the Convention, another resolution to be appended to the first one. The President: The Clerk will attach the resolution to the pre\ious one. and read the entire resolution. The t'.lerk read same. Ml'. Robinson: Do I understand the gentleman lo offer that as a suhsfi- lute fo the other? The President: It is all to be incorporated in the original motion. It becomes part of the original. .Ml-. Robinson: I would have the further objection to that. Mr. Pn-si- dent. Ibat so far as it contemidates .Slo shall be the entire compensation for the Stenographer for reporting the proceedings of the Convention and nothing for assistants outside, that would not be unreasonable; but from the knowledge of it I have from the practical work of writina out into long- hand. 20 cents a folio is too much. If we had a bank, like some other gentlemen, to foot the bills. I wo\ild have no objection to allowing the Stenographer 30 cents; but the limited means we have, and from the char- acter "of the work, and the practical knowledge I have of employing sleno- grapbei's. men to transcribe, and compensation which is fixed by the stat- ute of Montana Territory for work of that chai-acler. which is 5 cents oer folio, which "is not large I admit, but I know, in copying, that type-writino- at 20 cents per folio is entirely disproportionate to the amount of woi-k that is done; and to report the proceedings of this Convention jl would cost us SIOO a day — it would cost the Slate of ^Montana §100 a dav |o copy these proceedings; the bills would fool up that amount. Then I say that ;;s I'UdCKKDI.NdS AND DKHATKS jl licliiHivi's US til |iri)i-i'i'(l ill as ('I'lijiiiiiiical way as wr can in (ir^ian /ini.' a iii'W stafi'l ami I lliiiik this coiuiKMisal inn in-nx idnl fni' li\ tliis itsoIiiIimii is (lispropoi'lioiiatc, ami is wtoiik. Mr. Hui'liMgli, of (juster: Mr. I'rcsiiifnl. it seems to me that we slarleil oiii wroiitj- ill the lie;.: inning- in appointing these (•oniiiiillees. I think, hetorc ml ling the garment, we shoulil havi' si/.eil up the clolli, ami not umler- taken to cut a giant, overeoat out of a eliemise pattern. We shoulil have eiiiplo\eil .JList such cominitlees ami I'lerks as were m-eessary. and if tliei-i' are not ample funds here to |iay for them, we can follow the examide ol our lorefalhers, whieh was displa\('il in 177(5, and which wi' propose to dis- p'ay here ui getting the state iuio the Union, ami thai is, if the l'"edei'al ( iovernmenf is not willing to pay the bills necessarily incuri'ed in creating tills Oonvenlion and in passing from the territorial slate inio thai of state- hood, that Ihe memliers asseinhled here release their per dii m |o coiupen- sate a sufficient corps of clerks in this OonNcntion: and tlu^refore'l move to amend the resolution of my friend from Cascade, that the members of this Convention release so much of their per diem, to carry on Ihe business id' this Convention, as may be necessary. The President: Is lliere a second to the motion? Mr. Collins: Mr. I'resident, it has been determined by the Onneiition. It is a jjarl of ils iliify to lake the entire proceedings i>f Ibis Convention in shorthand. That has been already delermiiu'il, so thai it seems the Convention must determine what we shall do with that shorthaml manu- script, and how much we shall gi\e the Stenographer for his services. Now, I have inquired somewhat into this matter and I find tiial sflo pi>r day is a very reasonable compensation for Ihe entire services. Usually, for a body of this character or kind, or ex'en for a legislative body, it requires two stenographers, one for one-half of the day and the other for the other half, and during- the time the Stenographer is not taking shm-lband notes, he is transcribing, with the assistance of other clerks. But here, our Stenographer proposes to take the whole of the proceedings — all of them— our forenoon and afternoon sessions, and during our night session, and to employ assistants to transcribe it into longhand, at his own expense. I am informed from reliable authority that 20 cents a folio is the legal rate in the eastern states for that work. The Stenograjiher has to reread his manuscript to another Stenographer, and that Stenographer again to tran- scribe his notes inIo longhand: that, in the present proceedings id' the Con- vention, may fake two or three clerks, but that, when the real work of the Convention begins, it will ijrobably lake four: at least four, if not more. So that, all things considered, the Convention having decided Ihat we shall have a Stenographer, T believe that the rates herein mentioned are very reasonaljle. The Chief Stenographer of the Convenlion lias-consented to the resolution, at first insisting that he should have $20 jier day, but has con- sented to the resolution as it now stands, $15 per rliem. and will try to perform his duties. Now, if we have a Stenographer at all, I say that we must do something with the record. It wont do to allow him lo keep that until the Convention adjourns, and then iiiil it into an old trunk and burn it up. If we have a Stenographer, he should eaidi day transcribe his notes, and do something with the transcript; and if it is not tlie sense of the Conxention, then let us let our Stenographer out, and do with the simple minutes of our Chief Clerk, The salaries of Ihe other officers are. I think, very reasonable. So far as the pay for those officers are concerned, that is somettiiiig that is yet to come before the Convention. T believe though, for my own opinion, that in some part of our Constitution we can insert a clause which will iiroviiie ihat Ihi' first Legislafise ,\ssenilily shall iirovide a certain amount of money, name it .John Doe, Kichard Roe. and so on. completing llie eiilire list, and jiaying them in full for their services in Ibis Convention. And if Ihe people pass this Conslilution that we adopt, with Ihat jiroviso in it, the firsi Legislative Assembly must pay those hills, and that, if Ihe worst comes lo the worst, that the Miuchers of this Con- vention lo these employees are worth at least 90 cents on the dollar. Bui I belie\-e. if this is done, there are plenty of genllenuMi who will sei^ that llie bills id' these employees are nol discounted at all. 1 belie\i' lliill is a iiial li'i- for fiilnre coiisiii(>ral i(ni. Mr. -Miildlelon, id' Custer: Mr. I'l-esidenl : 'I'lie main queslioii that is broiiLdil u|i b\ reason of Ibis resolution is as In our authority or ability to provide as lo how these attaches shall lie compensated for their services. It is true that Ihe Aid of Congress under which this Conslitulional Con- vention has met and is altempling- to act does not pio\ii|e for Ihe comiien- salioii or employmenl, of more c'erks or attaidies Ihaii would be allowed r.ONSI rrLTinXAl. c.d.WK.N 1 Ii).\ |,s,s;i 3Vt to one branch ol' a territorial legislature: Ijut licic we are, 75 membprs. for the purpose ol' framhig an organic law lor the future slate of Montana. 11 is absolutely out of the iiueslion to get along with the clerks anil altaclu's provided for in that enabling act. The question has been touched upon by the gentleman from Cascade, as to the power of this Convention by ordi- nanci' to require the first state legislature to pay off these exti-a expenses: and I will say that I ha\e examined that question to some extent, and the authorilies upon the subject, and am satisfied thai the Cnnvenliim has nn such i)ower. However, there can be no doubt but what the first legislature that meetii in the State of Montana will provide for the compensation of such clerks, stenographers and attaches, as this Convention may deem it wise and necessary and expedient to employ, provided that their compen- sation is fixed at something reasonable, and I do not thiidv there will be any difficulty in the matter of voucheis being issued undei- the direction of this Convention, signed by the Chief Clerk and Presiilent. being nei^otiateii in the banks of this City, perhaps for Ion cents on the dollar, and wait and I'un their chances upon whai a f>itui-e legislature will do. But wiien a question of that kind comes before a legislature in the future, the matter will then come up as to the reasonableness of the compensation attempted io be fixed by this Convention, and I submit that, so far as the compensa- tion of the Stenographer, as provided in thnt resolution, in my .judgment, it is unreasonable: it is too much. I do not believe, on the other hand, that it is possible for one stenograi)hPc to flo this work: I do not believe In' can find any cl(>rks that can transcribe h's notes: I do not lielieve he can find another stenographer wlio can take his shorthand notes and tran- scribe them into longhand, I believe that we should have two or three, or more, stenographers, sufficii-nt to lake down Ihe entire proceedings of this Convention, and |iav e.-n'li one of those stenographers a reasonable compensation — something' that the I.egislalure in Ihe futvu'e would say was reasonable, and would not hesitate to provide for. The gentleman from Deer Lodge has su.ffgested that ijerhans we had better get along without the stenographer. I do not believe that that would \Tf the part of good judgment. Two or three states in the Union did not provide for the keep- ing of the record of the debates in their Constitutional Conventions: aU that they have of the record is simply Ihe published Joiu'nal of the Pro- ceedin.cs: and, so far as I have been able to learn, the historical societies of those slates, and their supreme courl.s, would find almost invaluable a record of the debates which took place in those conventions, of which there is no recorit: and T Jielieve we should provide not only for the pub- lication of the .Toin-nal. but for the takinir down and transcribing of all of the debates — the entire proceedings of this Convention — and make provi- sion, before we fjrel through, for their publication: that that should be done by a sufficient number id' slenograohers: that each one should take down shorthand notes to the extent that he could transcribe, and bring here the next day. to be referred, as the other portiim of the gentleman's resolution provides. But T do not believe that if Ihe compensation of the stenographer is fixed as provided for in that I'esolution that the resolution when it comes before the Legislature, will be allowed. T believe it is too much, and thai it ought not to be allowed in that kind of way: and it seems to me. that if we get started and find out we have not stenographers enoug^h, we can provide for another one: and when we get further along in the Convention, if the work becomes more arduous, provide for more, so that the jjroceed- ings may be taken in full and transcribed in 24 or 4S hours. But for the resolution to go through as it is now. I think, would be a blunder, and f should certainly, although I am 'in favor of sufficient clerks to do the work of this Convention, and do if well and speedily, and am in favor of paying them a reasonable compensation, I should be forced, at this time, Io vote against this resolution, Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis i.*t Clarke: Mr. President. T do not see the ne- cessity of having a stenographer. To extend the transcript of the Steno- graphers notes would be of no earth'y benefit to this Convention, unless they were printed, and printed copies laid upon th(> desks of the members of this Convention withm 2i or i8 hours at most after the stenographer's notes were talven. Therefore, for this Convention, I cannot see of what earthly use it would be to transcribe and extend those notes. There would be one copy: every member of the Convention would want to see it. and it would be impracticable for the members all to see what had been tran- scribed. Now, if it would be of any earthly use to this Convention, it seems to me that it should not be done unless it would be a great benefit in the future. There would certainly be a great expense connected with it. if ■'lO I'llOCKKDI.NdS AMI HKIiATK^ the proceedings were taken so as to be laid upon llie desks of tlic inrmbors of (nis Convenlion; tlie cnsl of the prniluiy aiiine would be an eiKirniou? sum for this Territory. ISut Ibe question llien arises as lo the future use. j\ow, it would be of no earthly use in the future; it would be of no use unless the report was a eorreet one. Now, the finest stenoKi-apher in tiie world would be apt to make very absui'd mistakes. II is almosi imiiossiblc for any member to hear mure tiuui three-fourths of what the oIIh'I' mrni- bers are saying. Therefore, for the transcript to be arcuralf. it wnulil have to be carefully e\arninexpense by the passage of Ibis resolution, and that the resolution ought not to be eai'ried. Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman. I understand from my colleague that one of llie objections which he makes to tin' emidoymenl of a Stenographer is the unreliability of his report. I therefore ask that tln^ Stenographer may now read the remarks of my colleague from Lewis >t Clarke County, in order that be may ascertain with what degree of correct- ness he is transcribing the proceedings of the Convention. Mr. Carpenter; t move to amend by including, also, the remarks of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. The President; Was the motion of Ibe gentleman from Lewis & Clarke seconded Mr. Carpenter; It seems to me, Mr. President, that this matter would get to be child's play. It is not that I question the ability of the steno- grapher, but it is that I question whether he can catch the i-emarks of all the members from the confusion in the room. ' The Stenographer might get my remarks correctly, because he happens to be situati'd very near nn'. Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: The Stenographer. I belii'xe. is siluated away over on this side. Mr. Robinson: I arise lo a point of ordei'; is the motion before this Convention being discussed? Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis iS: Clarke; Mr. Chaii'uian. as to the compen- sation provided by Congress, Congress votes $20,000 in a lump smn for the expenses of the "Convention. Now some officer — the accounting officer of some bureau or department in Washington has chosen lo say how that shall be apportioned. I venture to say that nearly everybody is familiar with the fact that those gentlemen have, from the beginning, undertaken to make laws, and that their decisions are continually overruled by the gentleman from Dakota; for I venture to say that, during his term as Delegate to Congi'css. very many of such decisions in regard to territorial legislation and to the exiiendilure of money t.heremidei' were made by this gentleman, who set up not only to interpret bid even to make the laws of the country, in their clerical decisions, were afterwards overruled. And so, Mr. President, in regard to the amount of this $--'0,000 appropriated by Congress, Congress may, uiulei' the persuasions of the Iwo senators and one representative that we will send down there, apiiropriate sufficient to make up the deficiency; but. in case they stand >ipon Iheir record, and appropi'iate no more, Ihev certainlv will nevei- wish to have recovered into the Treasury any of lhe'.t-'0,(Klfl that has been appropriated. Now. if this (;on\ention does'not waste tiio much lime in debating, Ihere will he ampli' money ai)|iroprialed for all of these deficiencies, and though son)e ac- connling officer of the Treasury, or some fourlh rate r\ovk. may make an ai'bitrary decision, it I'an be corrected by a single line. Rut if these ex- licnsi's ai-e not otherwise met, then I am svn-e the Territory of Montana, which now undertakes to bear its own expenses regardless of the Fivleral r.oMM'muent, will certainly be able, and will meet them with faith and honor. .\s to the value of the report, 1 shonid think thai no gentleman (X)NSilll ri(».\Al. CO.WKMIO.V |S,S>) 41 would (loul)l tlial the report ol' this Convention would be of extraordinary value to the future. In ease of any disputes with regard to the debates on previous davs. we will have the record to appeal to at any time to cor- rect misunderstandings that may arise on this floor during the debates of the Convention. As to the method of compensation, it is the ordinary method in legislatures to pay the stenographer so much, and then he pays out of whatever is given him, the transcribers of his notes. Now, the Chief Reporter of the Senate and House of Representatives is each allowed a stated sum. and out of that sum he sees that his notes are properly tran- scribed into ordinary writing. He may employ one, or two, or three, or four assistants. ,iust as he chooses: he may do it himself if he pleases, but Congress votes him a certain sum, and out of that sum he pays his assist- ants. I suppose that is the intention in this case: if the gentleman takes the notes of this Convention, and we allow him a certain surn, he will see that it is daily transcribed and put into proper shape. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis & Clarke: I ask for the reading of the resolu- tion, for information. The Clerk read the resolution. Mr. Chessman: I call for a division of the quesiion: the resolution gives to the Stenographer his fees and compensation, and other salaries are added to it: T desire to vote separately for each of these provisions. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I may be allowed to say (liat. in my judgment, the first resolution offered by my friend from Cas- cade is impracticable. As I understand it, the Stenographer shall submit this matter in detail to the President, who shall in turn submit it to the Committee on Printing. Now I would like to ask when this matter is to be read, or how much of it is to be eliminated, so that the Clerk may know how much of it is to be read to this body. It seems to me that in every way it is impracticable. Now, there is a part of this resolution that I would like to vote for, and would like to support. The President: I will say to the gentleman from Silver Bow. that a division has been called for by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke 'Mr. ("hessman . and. according to the rules, any member of the Convention has a right to ask for the division of a question where it contains more than one proposition: so that, if there be no objection, this question will be divided. Mr. Collins: Before it is divided. I ask permission lo insert "and door keeper .?.t per day." Mr. Toole, of Lewis iS: Clarke: In the resolution he is designated as Assistant Sergeant at Arms instead of Door Keeper. Mr. Collins: Well, whatever bis name is. Tlie Clerk read the first part of the resolution. Mr. Rickards: If I am in order. I would move that this part just read be referred to (he Committee on Prinling. Mileage and Contingent Expenses. The motion was duly seconded. The President stated the motion. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis it Clarke: Mr. President, I would suggest that all that other portion relating to the Slenographer be referred also. 1 understand the second pari was added to the first. The President: At your suggestion it has been divided. Mr. Chessman: My desire was that the salaries of the pages and other clerks should be divided. All that poi-tion which pertains to the Steno- grapher should be divided from the other portion. The President: According lo the way the resolution has been read, it does not embrace all that you desire to be embraced in the first portion"? Mr. Chessman: I understand that the second portion was added to the first, making if all one resolution: and therefore I desire to separate all that which pertains to the Stenop-rapher from the other poi-tions — all the other as to salary and compensation. The Clerk read the first part of the seccmd resolution. Mr. Rickards: With the consent of my second. I wouUI change the phraseology- of my motion to read, that all parts of this resolution referring to the dues and compensation of the Stenographer be referred to this Committee. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, I would like to ask for infor- mation, through the Chair, of the gentleman from Cascade County, if the compensation named in this resolution is to be (he entire compensation allowed the Chief Stenographer for all of the services: in other words, if he is (o pay — incur the expense and pay the bills for any assistants he 42 I'K()(;KKr)l.\(iS ANI» DKHATES may iipori In-rc in (•iiinpicl in;-' t,liis work, thai is, llir wnrk nainrii in lln' rosolut.ion. .Mr. Collins: The Chief Stenographer is 1o eiiii)loy all the assistant stenographers necessary, and all the necessary longhand writers to thor- oughly li'anseribe and place in the hands of the Convention each day. the proceedings of tlu^ Conxention. in longhand, at his own cost and expense. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Then I will move to strike out the words "!PI5" and insert "$20". I am opposed to sending any man out of this Con- vention a pauper wlio comes in here a full-fledged citizen. I think Ihe compensation is more than reasonable — it is exceedingly reasonable. The i^resident: Did I understand the motion of tiie gentleman fiiini SilviM' How was seconded? .Mr. Rickards: I understood it was. The President: The question is upon the molion of the gentleman from Silvei' Bow to commit to the Committee on Reporting, Printing, Mileage and Contingent P'.xpenses, all that portion of this resolution pertaining to the Slenographei- and his fee, or compensation. The question now before the Convention is upon the commitment of this question. .Mr. Eaton, of Park: I would liki' to ask the gentleman from Cascade for infoi-mation in regard to the 20 cents pei> folio — whelher or not he intends that to be additional compensation over the $15 to the Stenog- rapher as an excess over the legal I'ate. I understand the legal rate in this 'IV'i-rilory for Iranscritiing is \ery nnich less than 20 cents per folio, and I wisli specifically to know if the genlleman from (Cascade meiuis that as an addilioiial inducement to Ihe Stenogi'ai)lier to ixM-form all llmse duties enumerated himself, and to pay his own assistants; or whether the gentle- man from Cascade does understand that 20 cents is the ordinary legal rate. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, thi' intention is thai the Chief Stenogi-apher and his assistants — he must appoint another stenographer to read his shorthand notes to: then the Stenographer he appoints takes the copy in shorthand, and then that is again read by the second Stenog-- rapher to the longhand writer. Now the idea of this 20 cents is to divide it between the thi'ee. giving ten cents to the longhand writei' and ten cimiIs Id the two stenograptiers. The pai'ties who do liie writinu I'eceive but ten cents per folio: the Stenographer ani1 his assistant receive the other ten cents: and I believe it is well worth it. He nol only reads from his notes to the other Stenographer, bul after the Stenographer i-eads from his notes to the longhand writer, he must again re-examine Ihe work, and see that it is in accordance with the official record: so that he has a great deal of work besides the simple woi'k of ti'anslating his notes, to Ihe other Steno- grapher, and he and his co-laliorer are actually entitled to Ihe ten cents. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, if I understand the gentleman from Cascade, the Stenographer undertakes then to deliver a faithful report of this Convention foi' the sum named in the resolution, $15 a day and 20 cents per folio, to he distributed among his assistants. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: Now, Mr. President, may I say a word in support of my motion? T am in favor of the employment of a Stenographer 10 repoi't the proceedings of this Convention, so nuich as may be necessary for Ihe Chief Clerk to complete his record: bid I am not in favor of report- ing these debates, for, if that were to be the case, this debate has already cost Itie 'I"erritoi-y over $100. T do not understand it as n business method. 11 does not look "to me like a business method of conductint;' tin' affairs of this Convention, and therefore I am not in favor of the emidoyment of a stenographer to write out in detail and submit to the President of this Con- vention ihe proceedings of the Convention. .\nd I believe that in submit- ting (bis matter, or referring it to this Committee, as I had in view in my molion. that they would present il to Ihis body in a moi'e business like uiannei'. I say this without any disparity to my friend from Cascade, but I I|ielieve that the ends before us would be better' subserved. The President then put the motion, and a division being called for. the same was carried. Mr. Collins: Mr. President T move to refer the other resohilion to the same Conunitfee. The same question was brought nii in debate here, and we should settle the whole matter at once. Mr. Collins' motion was seconded. Mr. Toole, of I^ewis & Clarke: Mr. President. I do not see any neces- sity for referring that portion of the resolidion to the Committee at all. The Presidenl: If Ihe geidleman will allow the Chair to state the (jueslion, the question now jiending is in relation to the connnitment of the olliei' porlion of this I'esolntion. r.ONSTrrillONAI. CO.WK.NIKI.N I889 w Mr. Todlo, of Lewis & Clarke: I see no necessity for referring that portion of the resokition lo the Committee on Printing and Mileage. It in- volves simply the question of the salary of these respective officers em- braced in the resolution. It comes especially within the purview of that Committee. This Connnittee is specially charged wilh that, and therefore, as to that part of it affecting tlie manner in which the report he made, the compcn^^ation which might he voted to him by this Convention would come within Ihe jurisdiction, properly, of that Committee. Certainly, so far as the other part of the resolution is concerned, it does not relate to the question of reporting, or printing, or mileage, and, therefore, that Committee would have no more jurisdiction than any other Committee of this Convention. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I desire to arise to a point of order. It is moved to refer to a Committee, which is not debatable according to my recollection of the rule. The President: I would say to the gentleman from Deer Lodge that tlie question to refer is debatable. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis it Clarke: I see no reason why this matter should not be disposed of at this time. It is simply a question of how much salary the attaches of the Convention shall receive, and surely it is not exorbitant. There is no reason why we sliotild not vote upon it now, and. for one, I am ready to vote now in favor of it. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: The gentleman from Deer Lodge brings up Ihe question as to whether we are entitled to employ any officers except those provided by law, and lie laid particular slress in his argument upon that point. The gentleman from Custer slated that it was not within the provisions of the Convention to authorize or compel the first Legislature to |iay these officei-s. So this question comes up and should be settled before it "again comes before the Convention. I believe that if the whole matter is referred to tliis Committee, it will in\estigate not only the legal ques- tions but the other questions, and report thereon to the Convention. The President: The question is upon the reference of the remaining riorlion of the resolution. The Chair then put the question, and being in doubt a division was called for, and resulted in a vote of 26 in favor of !he motion and 31 against. The Chair announced the motion lost. The President: The question pending before Ihe Convention now is upon the division of the remaining part of Ihis resolution: what is your pleasure concerning the remainin.c: part of this resolution. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis I't Clarke: T move ils adoption. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. President, I am in favor of voting the officers a proper compensation, liut it seems to me — 'interrupted The President: I would stale to the gentleman from Park that that portion of Ihe resolution has been referred, and the question now is upon the I'emaining portion of Ihe resolution. .Mr. Eaton: Will the President inform me if the $15 per diem and 20 cents per folio has been adopted? The President: No. sii'. it has been referred. The Clerk read the remaining portion of the resolution. Mr. Robinson: I will inquire how many pages we have? The President: The gentleman inquii'es how many pages have been appointed, and is informed that the numlier is four. Mr. Robinson: How many other clerks are employed? The President: Five. !\Ir. Robinson: I am in favor of being pretty liberal myself, and I would like to know how we are going to pay them, before we indulee in this liberality. That is the only objection T have. It seems to me. in Ihe first place, that the number of pages we employ is unnecessary, and I am not certain as to the nvmiber of clerks besides those provided bv the ncl of Concress: it seems to me we are launching into it just a little too lirash: and if we characterize our wliole movements in the state government ami in the Constitutional Convention at the same ratio, have everything we do in proportion to this, and if that spirit pertneates the legislative liodies of the Stale of Montana. I predict that it will not be two years before the State of Montana will be so overwhelminpiy in debt that many tax payei's will wish wp had a territorial form of govei'nment instead of a slate. !Mr. Collins: Will the gentleman allow me to interrupt him for a moment? The Convention has already allowed the four pages and fi\e clerks. 11 l'li()(;KKI)l.\(iS AM) Dlir.AlKS .Mr. Hobinsiiii: I knew that hefoi'c. I Kaiiwd lliat iiir(iriiiali(iii Irnin tin' l^nvsiilciit. 'I'lirii I say, ttial like cvi'i'v ollii'i- unili'i'lakiiiti in its inci'plinn. business enterpi-isfs or an.vlliing else liiat a man goes into, — like people first huuieliing into the worhl going to hoiisekeejiiiiK, they must he governed hy ein/uiiistanees and their means. If ihey have not the means to do as I hey would like — to cut a wide swath, Ihey nnist cireumseribe their aetions within their means. 'J'his is an important feature of our local affairs, self government; it is one of the most important; it is laying the foundation; it is establishing a precendent for all future time to come; and I say that if we ha\e claimed for years that we are able to maintain a slate govermiient -it has been asserted in our legislatures and in llie halls of the Congress of liie United States that we were V^apafile of economizing and maintaining a state government with ttie weallh and population we have,, that is, if we economize. Now everything de|jends upon what we do in this Conven- tion. 1 am in favor of liberality: I am nol in favor of being too i)arsimoni- ous, but^I do say that, in order to maintain our government an(J keep our- selves free from a public debt, it is necessary that every move that we make should be a cautious one, and not involving expenses that are not necessary. Now, this Convention has seen fit to employ tliese extra pages and clerks without any fund to draw upon for the money, without any appropriation lieing made foi' it. I agree with my friend that lias made the suggestion in I'ehifion to the legal queslion, that this Conxenlion has no power to bind the Le^iislalure in its action. So fai' as thai is coni-i'rneij. it can repudiate everything we do. But. presuming lliat it will honor what debts we have incurred, and pay them, then I say, that while we have seen fit to employ these pages without any means of paying them at all, why then let us limit it down to a compensation as small as they can possibly get along with. Then I say that we might take some of the pay out of our per diem and give to these pages and clerks. But I believe these boys would be patriotic Montanans enough, when they have got the futui'e state to serve, that thev would be willing to serve for a little less than ^'i per day, what we get for blowing off our wind here. (Laughter.) Yes sir, I believe we should certainly retrench all wo can. Upon the other proposition, as it has been referred to a Connnitfee, I shall have more to say when it returns to the House, but I think that the compensation is a little too much, and so I am opposed to tiie n^solution. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I would move to amend by striking out the words "of the other" and substitute in lieu thereof "following," so that il would read smooth, that is all. It wotdd then read "that the compensa- tion of the following appointed officers" instead of "the compensation of the remaining officers." The President: The Clerk will read it as amended, the mover having accepted the amendment. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis tt Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I would like to in- quire if there are not six additional clerks, including the Chief (^lork? The President: The Chief Clerk reports that there are five clerks besides the Chief Clerk. Mr. Chessman: I understand there is no compensation allowed for the .Assistant Chief Clerk, and therefore he should be included in the other. Mr. Stapleton, of Silver Bow: Before voting upon this question. I de- sire to know if these officers undei'tand that there is no provision of law, and no authority in this body to pay them any salary whatever — if they understand that Ihey are to take the chances of ilie future Legislatui'e of Montana paying them the salaries provided for here? I think that, before we ha\e their services, they should fully vuulerstand that: then I am perfectly willing to let them take their chances. T simply ask this by way of inquiry, because, before voting upon this question. i)(>fore ac- cepting the services of the officers, I, for one. undei'stand we ran give them nothing. I understand the only thing this Convention can give Ihem is a cerfificale. and then, with that certificate in their jiossession, they take their chances hereafter of prociu'ing their pay from some future Liv-:isla- ture; and all I desir'e is Ihal they shall bi^ fully informed of this before accepting their sei'vices, ami I would like to ask some om^ who knows, if Ihey undersland this. Tf they do, then I am I'eady to vole upon the queslion. Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: Mr. President: I am opposed lo the ap- poiidnu'Mt of any more clerks at all. II is bad enough to be compell(>d to sit here and listen lo these deliali>s. and I Ihink il would lii' an act of cruel- ly to jilunge the Tei'riloi-y into debt for the iniriiose (d' p['(>ser\ing the eloquence that will he poured forth here and sweep everything befoi'e il. Of coui'se, the peopli; are inlerested in knowing what we accom|ilisli. but CO.Nsrrill'lO.NAL (;():\\K.\ 1 lO.N ISHO l.j Ihe means by which we get at it — the arf-'iiinents — are not worth anything. Life is loo short; we have got too much to do. .No. one can say anytliing here but ha.« been said a thousand times before, and belief loan it wiil lie said here. To appoint clerks lo Irniiscribe and write out in longhand the proceedina.s of this Convention would be an act unwarranted, and would be an act of cruelty to tliiMu as well as an act of cruelty to those who come hereafter, and I am opposed to spending money in I hat way. The Chaii' then put llic ipirslion. and the same was duly carried. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I move that we do now adjourn. 'J'he President: I will .say to Ihe genlleman. before that motion is put, that there is a communication I would like to have read. The Clerk tlien read the following communication. "Helena. Montana. July 9, 1889. Hon. W. .\. t:iark. President of the Constitutional Convention. Helena, Mon- tana. Hear sii': On behalf of the citizens of Great Falls we extend to you, and through you lo the members of the Con\ention. an invitation lo attend the banquet to be gixen bv the citizens (d' Great Falls on Fridav evening, July I2th insl. Respectfully yours. Signed PARIS GIBSON. T. E. COLLINS. C. M. WEBSTER. Helena. :\Iontana, July 9th, 1889. "Hon. \\'. A. Clark, President Montana Constitutional Convention, Helena. Dear Sir: — The Montana Central railway company will be pleased to ac- cord lo the members of your honoralile body and their families a pleasure trip through the canyons of the Prickly Pear and Missouri to Great Falls and return, leaving Helena at 11:55 a. m. on Friday the t2th inst, going through to the Great Falls of the Missouri, spending the night in the city of Great Falls and returning by special train the next morning, reaching' Helena at 12 m. As all your members are interested in the material welfare of our new commonwealth, we will give you an opportunity of inspecting one of the most extensive coal mines in the Rocky Mountain region. Very respectfully, (Signed)" C. A. BROADWATER, President. The President: What is the pleasure of the Convention regarding these communications? Mr. ^^'arren. of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. I move that we accept the invitation of the citizens of Great Falls, and also the invitation of the Montana Central Railway Company. The motion was duly seconded. The Chair then put Ihe motion, and tlie same was duly carried. The President: If there be no objection I will communicate with these gentlemen, and tender, on behalf of the Convention, the thanks of the Con- vention for their generous invitation. There is now the motion lo adjourn. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: If the gentleman will allow me. I would like to bring another matter before the Convention before we adjourn. Mr. Luce withdrew his motion. Mr. Collins: Committee No. 7, on the I'Mnances of the Stale, have had a meeting, and request me to ask the authority of the Convention to employ a clerk — not to take one of the clerks of the Convention, but to employ one specially for it. I ask for the authority. and^I maker a motion that the Committee have authority to employ a clerk. The President put the motion, and di\ision being called for, the motion was lost by a vote of 24 to 20. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer, called for the ayes and noes. The President: The question before the House is to empower the Committee on Finances to employ a clerk. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: That is in addition lo the clerks that have already been employed? Mr. Joy, of Park: I did not hear Ihe result of the vote. ■ The President: The motion was declared lost. Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead: I would like to ask if all the clerks are so busy that none of them can attend to that work at the same time, with- out the necessity of the Committee employing an additional clerk. Ml'. Collins: In answer to Ihe query of the gentleman. I would state, that at the meeting of the Committee it was the request of the Committee 46 i'HOCEKDINCiS AM) DKUATKS that another clerk ho employed. Wc thought the Cmninitlee siKmlii l)e the judge of who should be tlie clerk. The Committee had ia mind a clerk, and would like to employ that clerk for the particular services re(iuii-ed. We do not think that the clerks already selected would have time to attend to the wants of this Committee. That there are a immber of other com- mittees here — in fact, every committee, I believe, for the first week of the Convention, should have a clerk for the purpose of briefing the matter that will probably come before it. The subject matter of each committee will be briefed in such a way, so that the members of each committee can see what those committees have to say upon that matter: I believe that the Convention will be advancing its own interests, and that it will adjourn two or three weeks earlier by appropriating enough clerks. Now, if that is true, I certainly think that a Committee should have the right to choose the clerk that it thinks is qualified for the particular woi'k for which he is chosen. Now, our Committee had a meeting, and said they wanted to employ some one else, and they did it for the reason that they tliougiu the other clerks would be busy in attending to the wants of the other commit- tees. There are only five clerks to go around among those committees, and I believe that the other committees should be empowered to employ extra clerks. Certainly we ask it of the Convention, and I think that tlie Committee iinows what it wants; and I believe that in this early stage the Convention should grant it. I believe that it will expedite the labors of" that Committee, and that it will lie to the best interests of the Convention to grant it. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I arise to a point of order; is a question, after the ayes and noes have been called for, debatable? The President: It requires one-fifth of the number present tii call the ayes and noes, which has not lieen done, Mr. Rickards: In answer to what Mr. Collins has said, I would like to say, does not this body think that, by giving this Committee aulhoi'ity to employ an additional clerk — I say an additional clerk — I mean in addition to the five that have already been employed — that it is establishing a precedent that nearly every commitlee will have a right to ask? Now I want to give notice that the Committee over which I have the lioimr to pre- side, if you establish this precedent, will ask for a clerk. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: You ought to have one, l\lr. Burleigh called for the ayes and noes. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, T move we adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion, Mr. Burleigh: Mr. President, I arise to a point of order, — thai it is not in order to adjourn when a motion is pending, T asked for the ayes and noes, and, as I understand it, the Chairman did not put the question, to as- certain whether a sufficient number of the members were in favor of calling the ayes and noes. Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: T imderstand the Chair decided the \ote was lost, and I do not think the ayes and noes can be called for after a motion has been decided, Mr, Burleigh: I withdraw the motion: I ask for no courtesies, Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I desire to make a sug- gestion before we adjourn, and that is that the Sergeant at .\rms be instructed to see if it is not possible to make some different ari'angement of the desks of the members of this Convention, as it is utterly imiiossihle for members, during the day, to hear what is going on with tln^ di^sks arranged as they are. I believe it would be possible to do away with one or two of these aisles. I ask that the Sergeant-at-Arms be instructed to see if some such arrangement caiuiot be made. It is utterly impossible to hear what transpires. The President then put the motion to adjourn, 'and the same was duly carried. Adjourned. SIXTH n\Y. Wednesday. July 10th. ISSO. The Conxcnlion was called to order at 10 o'clock a. m. bv the President. The Clerk called the roll. The President announced lli:il he had a letter fi-om Mr. Knippi'nberg. CONSTITUTIOXAr, CO.NVK.NTIO.N ISS'.) 47 which stated that he was roiapelleil to be atisent on account of illness in his family, and begged to be excuseil until noon of Wednesday (to-day,. 'riic ClKiplain offered prayer. Tlie C.li'rk read the Journal of the previous day. .Mr. Riekards, of Silver Bow: Mr. I'resitlenl, I have a memorial tiiat has been placed in my hands for presentation to this body. The President: The Clerk then read as follows: "To the Honorable Members of the Constitutional Conxention of Montana. Honorable and Dear Sirs: — The .^Io^l;u1a Conference of the Methodist Kpiscopal Church, now assembled in Helena, Montana, respectfully meni- oi'ialize your Honorable Body to expressly consider the matter of legis- lation regarding the high and importaid issue involved in Sabbath obser- vance, and that you incorporate in the new Constitution to be framed by you, complete provision forbidding all Sunday traffic and work, except the works of religion, and the works of real necessity and mercy. That you submit with your foi-m of Constitution the following on the subject of Temperance: That the manufacture and sale of intoxicating liquors, except for medicinal purposes, and except for use in the arts and sciences, the man- ner of such sale to be regulated as shall be prescribed hereafter, is and shall be forever prohibited in Montana. That this clause be inserted by you, either in the Constitution to be voted upon, or appended to it, if, in your judgment, it would be jeopardiz- ing it. as a clause to be voted upon separately, at the same election at which the Constitution is submitted, and after insert it, should it receive a ma- jority in its favor of all votes cast. Having confidence in the ability and integrity of your Honorable Body to perform the functions for which it has been chosen, and witli great respect for each of you personally, and with a prayer for the prosperitv of our beloved .Montana, we remain, fellow citizens of this great common- wealth, iSigned THE MO\TAN.\ CONFERENCE OF THE METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH, G. C. STULL, Secretary. The President: The Chair is of the opinion that Committee No. 13, on Miscellaneous Subjects, is the proper Committee to which to refer this memorial; if there be no objection it will be referred to that Committee. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Mr. President. Committee No. 1 desires to report. The report was sent up to the Clerk's desk. The Clerk then read as follows: Mr. President, your Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights respect- fullv submits the annexed reports for the consideration of the Convention. I'Signed BICKFORD. Chairman. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: T move that the report of the committee b(> receiveil. and be referred to the Committee on Printing. The motion was seconded. The t^hair put the motion, and the same was duly carried. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: Mr. President, I have a resolution. The resolution was sent up to the Clerk's desk, and the Clerk read as follows: "Resolution No. 8. School Lands. Resolved, that none of the lands granted by Congress to the State of Montana for the support of common schools shall ever be sold or granted, or disposed of in any manner except by lease, nor shall any moneys re- ceived therefrom be used for any other purpose than for tlie support of the common schools of the State." Mr. Luce moved that the resolution be referred to Committee No. 20. The President: If there be no objection, the resolution, as read, will he referred to Committee No. 20. on Boundaries, Public Lands and Home- stead Exemptions. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I desire to offer a propo- sition. The same was sent up to the clerk's desk. The President: Rule No. 21 provides that all these propositions and resolutions shall be on legal cap paper, or printed. They shall likewise be prefaced with the title, briefly indicating the subject to which they refer. The gentleman from Silver Bow will be kind enough to comply with those regulations. iS l'H(»(:KKItI.\(iS AMI KKHAIKS Mr Hartman, of (iallalm: Mr. Prcsidonl, I ilosire to oiler I lie follow- ing ordinance: The President: The proposition introduced by the gentleman from Gallatin will now be read. The Clerk then read as follows: "Proposition No. 4. ORDINANCE Be it Ordained by the Montana Constitutional Convention: 1st. That perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured, and that no inhabitant of the proposed ytate of Montana shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her mode of religious worship. 2nd. That the people inhabiting said proposed State of Montana do agree and declare all right and title to the public lands lying in the boun- dary thereof, and to ail lands lying within said limits, owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes, and that, until the title thereto shall have been extinguislicil by the United States, the same shall be and remain sub- ject to the disposition of the United States; and said Indian lands shall re- main under the absolute jurisdiction and control of the Congress of the United States. That the lands belonging to citizens of the United States residing without the said State of Montana shall never be taxed at a higher rate than the lands belonging to residents thereof. That no taxes shall be imposed by the said State of Montana on lands or property therein belong- ing, or which may hereafter be purchased by, the United States, or reserved for its use. But nothing herein contained shall preclude the said State of Montana from taxing, as other lands are taxed, any lands owned or held by any Indian who has severed his tribal relations, or has obtained from the United States or any person the title thereto, by patent, or other grant, save and except such lands as have been or may be granted to any Indian or Indians under any Act of Congress containing a provisio exenipt- ing the lands thus granted from taxation. But said last named lands shall be exempt from taxation by said State of Montana so long and lo such extent as such Act of Congress may prescribe. 3rd. That the debts and liabilities of said Territo[-y of Muntana shall be assumed and paid by said State of Montana. 4th. That provisions shall be made for the establishment and main- tenance of systems of public schools, which shall be open to all children of the people of the State of Montana. 5th. That this ordinance shall be irrevocable without the consent of the people of the United States and the people of the Territory of Montana. The President : If there be no objection, this will be received and referred to the Committee on Ordinance, No. 22. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: Mr. President, I desire to offer a resolution. The same was sent up to the Clerk's desk, and Ihe Clerk read as fol- lows: "Resolution No. 9. The establishment of New Counties. Resolved, that in the creation and establishment of counties, thi'y shall be named with regard to mountain ranges, rivers, or other appropriate natural features of the countrv in the vicinilv of the proposed new county. The l^resident: If there be no olijectiun, this will be received and referred to Committee No. 10. on City and Town Organizations. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I desire to offer a resolution, and ask that it be referred to the proper Committee. The President: The Clerk will read the resoluiion offereil li\- the gentleman from Madison. The Clerk read as follows: Resolution No. 10. Concerning Free Passess by Corporal inns. Resolxed, that the following be incorporated in the Cnnslilution as nne of its provisions, and be properly numhered. Section No railroad, or other Iransporlatinn companx', and ni> agent, officer or employee tliereof, shall issue or give or offer, eilher flirecfly or indirectly, to any member of the Legislative Assembly, oi' to atiy executive, judicial or minislerial office of Ibis Slate, or of any county, district, liiwiisliip, nnmicipality or olhei' division thereof, any gratuitous transportation over or upon or any pass or free ticket for passage over or upon any route oi' line, or part thereof, of such Company, oi' make or fjirect or consent lo any contract or arrangement by which such officers, or any of them, shall be transported or conveyed over or allowed to travel upon such ro\ile or line, or any part thereof, nl any less rale, nr for any CO.NS'irn IKINAl. CO.WK.NIIOX tSSil ill less compensation than is charged the public generally: ami no menibei- of the Legislative Assembly, and no such officer as above mentioned, shall accept, or receive, or use. while he is a candidate for office, or while h(> continues in office, or within three months after he ceases to be in office. any pass or free ticket from any railroad or transportation company, oi- make or consent to any contract or arrangement by which he. or any of his family or employes, shall be transported or conveyed by such com- pany gratuitously, or at any different or lower rate or charge from that required of the public generally. That any railroad, oi- other transporta- tion corporation or company violating any provision liereof shall foi'feit to the State one thousand dollars for each and every violation liereof, to be recovered by action at law: and any officer heroin mentioned who shall violate any provision hereof shall forfeit his office, ami all the emolu ments thereof. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I desire to offer an amendnienl. Insert at the word ordinance "this article shall be enforced by appropriate legis- lation." The President: The amendment is not in ordei' at present, unless it be accepted. Mr. Callaway: It can be referred to the Committi'e with the resolution. The ChaiiMiian: If there be no objection, this amendment, with the resolution, will be referred to Committee No. 12, on Corporations. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: I would move that il lie referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects and Future Amendments: I do not Miink it properly belongs to the Committee on Corporations. The motion was seconded, the Chair put the question, and the same was duly carried. Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I now offer the following resolution. Mr. President: The resolution offered by the gentleman from Lewis t*c Clarke will now be read. The Clerk read as follows: "Resolution No. 11. Resolved, that the following be inserted in the Constitution. No property in this State shall be exempt from taxatioii except the property of the Ignited States, the State, counties, towns and other municipal corporations, and public libraries. All mines and mining claims, both placer and rock in place, containing ore bearing gold, silver, copper, lead or other valuable mineral deposit, for which a United States patent is issued, shall be taxed at the Government, price therefor, unless the surface ground thereof has a separate and independent value, in which case it shall be taxed as provided by law. But all machinery used in min- ing, and all property and surface improvements pertaining to or upon mining claims which have separate and independent value, and the annual net proceeds of all mining claims shall be taxed as provided by law." The President: If there be no objections, this will be received ami referred to Committee No. 7. on Finances. Mr. Joy, of Park: Mr. President, I desire to offer a resolution. Mr. President: The resolution offered by the gentleman from Park County will he read. The Clerk read as follows: Resolution No. 12, Resolution on Suffrage. Every male citizen of the United States above the age of 21 years, who can reaii and write the English language, and who has not been con- \icted of treason or felony, and who shall have resided in this State one year, and in the city, county or district where he may offer to vote for six months next prior to any election, and no other persons, shall ha-\e the right to vote in this State. Provided that nothing herein shall disfranchise any person who was a qualified voter at the time of the adoption of this Constitution." The President: If there he no objection, this resolution will be received and referred to Committee No. 2. on Right of Suffrage. Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: Mr. President, I desii'e to offei' a I'cso- lution. The same was sent up to the Clerk's desk, and the Clerk i-ead as follow'S: "Resolution No. 13. Resolxed that all articles from No. 2 to No. 17. inclusive, of the Constitution of 1884, be referred to the appropriate stand- ing committees of this Convention. Mr. Whitehill: Mr. President, T wish to say in favor of that I'esolu- tion, that most of the resolutions which are now being read are copied \er- batim, or at least a part of them, from the old Constitution, and I desire 50 I'liOCl'lKIUMIS AM) DKHATKS by fliat resolution to rctci- racli sfctiiui ol' Ihe old Coiisstitulloii. uikIit tlio lii'ailinj:, to the appropriate Coininitf(>(> of lliis Convention, and it will llieii'by save a niunber of resolutions tbat are now beiiifi introduced. Mr. Hickards, of Silver l?o\v: Inasmuch as Ibis nialti'r has alreadv been covered by the repoi-t of the Coniniitlee on Preamble, and that mai- ler has already been properly referred, I would move that Ibis resolulion. I)i-esentd by Mr. Whilehill, be referi'd to the same Commit l(>e. .Mr. Whifehill: The Committee has already reported. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I ask for the readinj? of I be resolution. The Clerk read the resolution as offered. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I move the adoption id' the resolution. The motion was seconded. The President: The Chair would suggest that, accordins; to llule No. 22. the subject of this resolution may be out of order. It states that pro- posals and resolutions mentioned in Rule No. 21 shall embrace but one subject. .Ml'. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, this would not be intended as a resolution embodying anything for adoption in the Constitution, but a resolution outside of that. It is simply a resolulion of reference to come iiefore the body. It would not be a resolution to be numbered under the pai-ticular rule which the Chair has read. It is a reslution for reference simply. Mr. Whitehill: Mi'. President. I withdraw the resolution and put it in the shape of a motion. I move that the malt'er containtxi in thai resolution be adopted. The Chaii- then put the motion, and the same was carried. Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: I now offer my proposition. The President: The proposilion offered by the gentleman from Silver B(iw will be read. The Clerk then read as follows: ''Proposition Xo. 2. To prevent Convict Labor muler Contract. That any person or persons convicted of a crime in the Stale of Montana, and while under sentence for the same, shall not be allowed to labor for any indiviilual, company or corporation. Neither shall the Slate have power to enter into an agreement or contract with any imlivdual, company or coriiiiration to have convicts do any labor that will in any way compete with free labor. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, as there is nothing before the Convention at this moment, I would like to make a suggestion for the consideration of the members, and they can lake such action upon it as they see fit. It becomes more apparent every passing hour that the great bulk of the labor to be performed in this Con\enlion is to be done in the conunittees — all preliminary work, lo say the least — and I would suggest for the consideration of the members, whether it would not be better to agree to one morning hour here for the onjinary routine business, and then allow the balance of the rlay to the committees, in order lo prepare their work, &c., until such time as there is sufficient business before the Convention, in the shape of the reports of the committees, to require two sessions a day. I simply mention the matter in order to bring it before the Convention. I do not desire to intrurle my own opinions in any way. but it seems to me, as a matter of econumy of time, that we ,u\tih\ lo havi'' sotne arrangement of thai kind. Ml'. Maginnis. of I.,ewis \- Clarke: Mr. President. 1 fully concur in the suggestions of the gentleman from Custer. I think thai having one moi'iv ing hour here for the inlroriucfion of resolutions and petitions, in the form of business, and then taking a recess, say until i o'clock, coming to>;etlier again and going over whal may be necessary to be done at that time, and then adjoui'iiing. would be perliaps the best way we could spend our da\'. unlil such time as the committees who are to lay the grounri-work of the Con^■enlion will be ready to I'eport. To do otherwise would simply be wasting our time, as we have done today and yesterday, in the introduction of resolutions covering ground which has already been covered. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis i'^- Clarke: This question niigiit as widl be decid(>d now. As the gentleman froni T-ewis i^- Clarke says, it is a waste of time to I'emain here while importaid work remains to be done by the committees, and I therefoi'i> move that the Convention do now adjourn. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I move that, wo take a recess imtil 'i o'clock. Mr. Carpeider, of T,ewis ^t Clar'ke: I cannot see any nd\anta^:e in hav- ing two sessions a day. CO.NSIITLllo.NAL ()( ).\ VKMIO.N !««;) 51 Mr. MiildlL'lon. of Custer; I would like to offer a resolution in regraril to the matter of aineudiiig ttie rules in regard to comiuiltees. Mr. Cai'iieuler: 1 will yield to the gentleman. The I'residenI: Th'' gentleman from Custer offers the following reso- lution. ■'Resolved that the Rule No. 36 of the Rules of this Constitutional Con- vention tie amended by adding to suhdivision 6 of said Rules the following words: Provided that the comniitlees munhered 17, 19 and 21 of the stand- ing committees of this Convention may rcjiort at any time during a session of the Convention." Mr. Miildleton, of Custer: Mr. President. I would move the suspension of the rules, and ask that that resolution be placed upon its final passage. The committees that it relates to are the Committee on Reporting and Printing, the Committee on l'"ngrossing and Enrollment, and the Committee on Revision. Phraseology and .\djustment: and it seems to me it will ex- pedite the work of the Convention if these committees are allowed to report at any time they are ready to report, whetiier it is the order ot business or not. I think these committees ought to be allowed to report when the Con\ention is in session. Mr. Burleigh of Custer seconded the motion. The President then put the question. .Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis it Clarke: I would move that Committee No. L'l be excluded from that resolution. That Committee ought not to report until the entire Constitution has been settled upon, and then the arrange- ment of the sections and the phraseology- can be corrected. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: Mr. President, I presume that Committee No. 21 should be stricken from that resolution, and I move that it be so amended. The President: If there be no ob.jection to Ibis amendment, it will be received. Committee No. 21 will be eliminated from the resolution. The Chair stated the moHon, and the same was carried. The Chair then put the question on the motion to adjourn, and Mic same was duly carried. Adjourned. SEVENTH DAY. Tluii-sday. .Inly 11th, 1889. Convention called to order bv the President at 10 A. M. The Clerk called the roll. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. and the same stood approved without correction. Mr. Conrad of Choteau. chairman of the printing committee, sent up a report of said committee to the clerk's desk. Mr. Eaton of Park, chairman of the committee on military affairs, sent Up report of said committee. The Clerk read the report of the committee on military affairs as fol- lows: "Ml'. President, the committee on military affairs having had under ronsideralion the subject of military affairs for the constitution, respect- fully submit the following report, and recommend the adoption of the same. .\rticle Section I. — The militia of the stale of Montana shall con sist of all able bodied male citizens of the state between the ages of 18 and •in inclusive, except such persons as may be exempt by the laws of the Stale or of the United States. Section 2 — The Legislature shall provide by law for the organization, equipment and disciplining of the militia, and sbaU make rules and regu- lations for the government of the same. The organization shall conform as nearlv as practicable to the regulations for the government of the armies of the United States. Section 3. — The Legislature shall provide by law for the maintainins- of the militia by appropriations from the treasury of the state. Section i. — The Legislature shall provide by law for the safe keeping of the public arms, military records, relics and banners of the state. Section o. — ^^'hen the Oovernor shall, with the consent of the Legis- ai' I'liOCKKlM.NCiS AMI I )KHA IKS l;ili\c Assembly, bo out of Ihc stale in liiiu,' oT war al Iho bead ol' anv military force thereof, be sball continue Gommander-inChief of all the mililarv forces of tlie slale. Signed EATON, Chairman." The President : If there be no objection. Ibis report, of the commillee on military affairs will bo received, and referred to the committee on printing, with the I'equest that it be printed. The President: The chair would ask the chairman of the committee on agriculture and other affairs, if a report is not due on a reference made to them three days ago, it I he chair is not mistakiMi, on the sub.ject id' irrigation? Tlio chairman of said committee, Mr. Kohrs, sent up the following re- liort, which was read by the clerk as follows: "Mr. President, your commillee on agriculture, manufactures, etc., to whom was referred resolulion number three, beg leave to say that we have considered the same, and would respectfully recommend its adoption by ttie convention. (Signed) C. KOHRS, Chairman. The President: This resolution refers to the appointment of a com- mittee on irrigation, the number to be placed on that committee was lefl blank in the original resolution, and has not been reported by the commit- tee. Mr. Burns, of Lewis & Clarke: I would suggest that there be a com- mittee appointed to consist of 1 1 members, and I make a motion to that effect. The motion was duly seconded. The President put the motion and the same was carried. The Clerk then read the resolution as completed. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer, moved to amend by adding; to the resolution the following: "To which committee shall be referred all matters per taining to the subject of irrigation coming before this body." The President: \^'hat is the pleasure of the conxcnfion concerning the resolution as amended, and the report of tRe conniiillee. Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead: I move the report ot the committee be rceived and adopted. The motion was duly seconded. The President put the motion and the same was duly carried. The President; The report of the committee on printing will now be read. The clerk read as follows: "Mr. President, your committee on reporting, printing, elc. having had under consideration resolution number seven, relating to the official sten- ographer and his compensation as introduced by Mr. Collins, would most respectfully recommend thi^ following in lieu thereof: Resolved, that it shall be llie duty of thi' chief stenographer to transcribe daily into lonu hand the proceedings of the con\ention ami deposit the manuscript with the president of the convention, daily, for reference, and to the committee on printing for examination, and after approval by the convention to be deposited with the Secretary of the Territory and a receipt taken for the same; that the compensation of the chief stenographer shall be $15.00 for each and every day this convention shall actually si# in session, and that said chief stenographer shall be enlitled to the additional sum of lo cts. per folio for each and every folio transcribed by him from his notes of the proceedings of the convention. (Signed) C. E. CONRAD, Chairman. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention concerning Ibis report of the committee on reporting, printing, etc.? Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, I move thai the report lie adopted. The motion was seconded. Mr. Robinson, of Tioov Lodge: Mr. Chairman, the adopliiin of the re- port means the final action on it. It is necessary lo r-eceive the report before any action is laken on it. and I tbei-efore move that Ihe report be received. Mr. Collins: Mr. President. I ha\e always Ihought Ihat wln^n a repoi'l was received from a duly organized committee ot Ibis body, thai there is no necessity for a molion that it be received in fact, and that if it is nol referred or placed on file, the propei- action is lo adopt, so as to bring it before the house. Certainly the report has already been received. It is CONSriTiriONAL CO.WKNI'KIN IHSU b.i ontirely siipiTl'luous, at'tiT tlie conimitei' has repoili>il. lo iiKixc dial it \ic received. The i'resident: I think the gentleman from Cascade is according to rule 37 corciH't upon this proposition. The President then slated the motion. -Mr. Robinson: That brings it up on its final action. The President: The gentleman from Fergus is entitled to the floor. Mr. Watson, of Fergus: Mr. Chairman, it was not until immediately before the meeting of this body, that 1 was advised of the action taken by the majoiity of the committee, and 1 desire now to state, without wish ing to make any minority report, that I should have some objection to the adoption of tlic resolution as presented by the majority of the committee. I do not wish to make a speech, and I trust Ihat the stenographer will not lake down my very brief remarks at any length. But there aie very serious objections it occurs to me to Ihe adoption of this resolution. I think that Ihe matter, as presented to this body, of obtaining through the stenographer an accurate and reliable report of the proceedings here, and the remarks made by members, is impracticable. I do not think that the object will be secured. In the second place it would be impracticable as to the matter of price. I do not think that the pay is sufficient. I do not think that Ihe proposition of reporting every word that is said here, every motion mai.le and all the remarks of the members, for future examination is practicable. If I UTuierstood the remarks made by the gentleman from Cascade the other day. in reference to the resolution it proposed that the chief stenographer shall prepare his notes; that he shall read them to a second stenographer, that the second stenographer shall re-read them to a long hand writer. That in the next place they shall be referred to the president, and in turn referred to the committee on printing for examina- tion as to their accuracy. I do not think that is practicable: and again if it were practicable, and if a sufficient amount of money were provided for doing the work, I think it would cost too much. On a little consideration, I believe you will come lo the conclusion that these reports can be made, and made accurate, so as to be worth anvthing in future as a reference. I do not think that a matter of .?5000 or .?IOOOO wHl pay for it: and there- fore I think we are going a little too far. I do not wish to judge for any other membei- of this convention: but if my constituents have done me the honor to send me here. I must sulimit to what I think would be their judgment. They are largely composed of ranchmen, and they are especial- ly poor Ibis year: and I do not wish by any action of mine to propose or vote for one dollar of unnecessary taxes. .And further than this .Mr. President, I do not think we will need a stenographer: I do not think we want one: I do not think there is ambition enough among the members here to be reported in full, or that any of the members of this convention desire such a report. I do not think the game is worth Ihe candle, and I felt at one time very much disposed to move to lay the whole subject on the table: for the present I will confine myself to moving the indefinite poslponement of the whole matter, and the discharge of the stenographer. Mr. Middlelon. of Custer: Mr. President, as a member of the printing committee, and one of the majority that concurred in the report of Ihe committee which has just been read, in reply to the gentleman from Fer- gus. I simply want to say that I understood it to be the general sentiment of this convention tliat its entire proceedings should be kept in some wav or another for future reference, perhaps for future publication. I agree with the gentleman in a sense, Ihat is to say. so far as the ambition of the members here to go into print on everything they do. and every word Ihey say. I do not believe the general sentiment is such as wants it for that purpose. But I do believe that it is important and wise, that not only the entire proceedings, but the entire debates of this convention be reported. Ihat in future ages, perhaps 40. 50 or 100 years from now. they will become of value: and the older the state of Montana grows, the more valuable these debates and the record of proceedings will be. Xow as to Ihe mailer of this expense. I am one who was disposed to feel that Sio.OO per riay. and 20 cts per folio for transcribing all of the short hand notes was too much. I think Ihe committee have given that matter mature consideration. They have consulted with the stenographer we have here, Mr. Connolly, and with others, and we have come to the conclusion as indicated by that re- port, that this work cannot be done, and properly done for less money than as suggested by Ihe report — that is SI.5.00 per day and 15 cts. per folio for the transcript. Mr. Connolly has agreed with the committee, or indicated to the committee, that he would accept Ihat proposition, if iJie convention 5/. I'llDCKKhl.NCS AM) UEHAJKS adopted thai report; and it seems lo me that it is within i-eason, in \iew of the fact that tliese proceedings siioidd certainly be repoi-ted. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodjje: Mr. President, as I have intimated m.v views to tliis convention upon this proposition heretofore, it is necessary to add but little more to what I have said. In the first place so far as the reasonableness of the compensation is concerned, I have only this to say, that in the experience that I have had with stenographers in copying their reports of judicial proceedings into long hand upon lypewritci's, I have ■ound them to transci'ibe very easily lOfi folios per day. and from that In 150 folios in a day: and from all 1 can learn from the stenographers that I have had employed in such work as that, ICfO folios a day is not an uni'ea- sonable days work. Then there is ffla.lXi per day to the stenographer for transcribing these notes. Our statute has fixed the compensation of sten- ographers for transcribing their work and reports at 5 cts. pei' folio, and they can make good wages at that, so they tell me: and they do not hesi- tate to do the work at that price. So far then as tiie $15.00 per day for the work in the convention is concerned, I care but little about the cost, be- cause it amounts to but very little itself. One man can do that \i'ry easily for the few hours we are in session, and I care not whether it is sFS.OO per day, $10.00 per day or $15.00 per day. But there is something underlying the whole thing that causes me to oppose the whole system of re|iorting these proceedings. If, Mr. President, it is material to report the debates of this convention — if anybody should have the curiosity in future years, probably when many of us are dead, to I'ead the proceedings of this con- vention, the most important of all the proceedings are the debates and discussions upon material propositions that occur in the vai'ious commit- tees; at least there should be there, where each and every proposition is more thoroughly digested by the respective committees than anywhere else. Tlien if it is material to report the debates, it is material lo report the discussions in the various committees. There is when' the work is done. Then if the flebates tlint occur in this room ai'e nidy ri'porti-d. we have got but a portion of Ihem. and it is necessary to have a slcmigi-iipher for each of these various committees. Now then, so far as the materiality is concerned, I have this to suggest. I would ask the gent'emen of this convention, how many of them have read the debates in the convention that framed the constitution of the United States where there was some brains employed — men of character — the ablest men that our nation has ever produced were in that convention, where they had not the land marks to guide them that we have, but the whole thing was mamifactured out of new cloth entirely: where they discussed these propositions thor- ouglily, each one at a tiine. And where those debates have been reported, how many gentlemen of this convention, or how many men sinci' these re- liorls have been pviliHshed in book form, have ever taken the trouble to read a solitary speech made by these eminent men. I dare say I hat there is not one American citizen in (iO.OOO that has ever read these debates. Then T say if the American people did not feel interest enough to read the debates of such an eminent body as that, how many of our constitvienls who liave sent us here will read our discussions in this convention? 1 think it is fair to state, that there will not be one man in 50.000 that will ever read a word in this convention, hereafter Then I say that so fai- as any aid to the Courts in interpreting the constitutional provisions that will be em- liodied in this constitution is concerned, there is nothing in thai whatever, t'ccause the Courts in determining the statute, or in determining the con- struction of the statutes or constitution, do not look to the debates that occurred; but on the various propositions they take the inslnmient itself as it reads on the surface, and interpret from that alone. Then I say tha't so far as aiding this convention is concerned, these reports can serve no purpose whatever, because they will not be accessible lo the members of the convention even if they are transcribed in long hand, one cony of it for the whole convention, within 2.\ or iS hours after they occur, they are inaccessible to the members of the convention. Therefore they can be of no use or benefit to the convention as it progresses. Then it can only be for just merely the speeches of the con^■ention. .Xs T suggesteil bi'fiire so far as the material part of our work is concerned, as it pi'ogr(\sses our clerks keep a faithful T'ecord of that. The memories of the members of the convention are refreshed on it as to all that it material, that is neces- sary for us to know. Then the only purpose that the report of the sten- ographer would subserve, would be to preserve the speeches that ar(> made here. Then I say as these speeches are only for future reference, and nothing else, and when you consider the fact that in all human pi'obability, CONSlITL'llO.NAr, CO.WK.Nl'IO.N IS.S'.1 55 SO fow jjeople will read (horn hereafter, it seems to me thai it is lianlly worth while to indulge in the expense of reporting and Iranseribing- these speeches lor that purpose. Why, sir, I have myself had oceasion to exam- ine the constitutional provisions of the state where I lived for 14 years, where the debates in tliat convention were open to me every day. I do not think for any piu'pose that they coulil serve me as a rising politician, statesman, lawyer or citizen, or any other purijose, that it is worth my while III go to work and read those siieeches when there was so much to be read. Why, if a man of intelligence will take that which is most im- portant to liini and read that, then I say, having as limited time as we have, people will not select these speeches in this ccmstitulional convention and read them, because ttiey will read iith(>r matter. Then I think it is a waste of time and money to publisii these speeches, and while w(> desire in organizing our state government to do so in the most rigid economy, yet to supply ourselves and the people with everything tliat is really needed and beneficial to them, and I think that what is useless and will serve but little purpose, let us eliminate and dispense with. Why, sir, upon this very proposition the celebi'ated ornithological effort of Mr. Cox was delivered upon a proposition of this kind. To report all this useless kinc: cif matter the government pay the expense of sending if broadcast throughout the land. Mr. Cox opijosed that whole system, and that is what called forth one of those three celebrated speeches. It is entitled "The Sil\cr Tongued Speech"; showing in a humorous, ridiculous way, the ultei' uselessness of scattering those things broadcast throughout the land, becavise they serve no purpose. \Miy even in the proceedings of the Congress ol the United States, how many people read those debates there. Even the ablest 'efforts of our big men in the Congress of the United Stales, there is not one in 10,000 of them ever read. So there are piles and piles, wagonloads and steamboat and carloads of matter that is published at the expense of the government of the United States. It becomes a habit and custom to publish them, and the government of the United States has oceans of money to throw away. Not that they sei've any practical or beneficial ])urpose whatever, hut biM-ause it is customary, and the govern- ment of the United States is ready and I'an well afford it. But we are not in that happy condition, and I insist as a matter of economy, let us pliminale everything that is useless where it costs us money. For these i-easons, Mr. President — other members of this convention may do as they please — whether I stand solitary and alone upon this prop- osition or have tlie support of a respectable minority of the convention, or the support of a ma.jority of this convention — I feel it my duty as a citizen of Montana Territory, to express my views upon this proposition, irrespective of what anybody may thii\k — irrespective of what the report- ers may think in scril)l)ling for ihe ni>wspapers upon this proposition; it "S wholly immaterial to me; it is a duty I feel I owe to myself as a repre- sentative of the people of the state of Montana, to express my honest con- victions upon this proposition: and for that i-eason, Mr. President, I shall vote against the whole proposition. iMr. Ramsdell, of Custer: Mr. President, there are occasions in the lifi^ of nations and individuals, when, it occui-s to me, that many considerations which would otherwise have unusual weight, are unworthy of being enter- tained: and it strikes me that the present moment is one. This is the most important gathering that has ever convened within the limits of the Terri- tory of Montana. Its deliberations are of vast historical importance, and if seems to me, that for the sake of our constituents, and for the sake of the people of Montana, that the delilierations of tliis body should lie taken down by a stenographer, that our constituents may refer to them in future years. .\s a question of economy, it seems to me. we might set it aside. "this being the birthday, you might say, of the nation. We should set all partisan feelings, all considerations asidi'. and we should look upon it as a question of liberality. The remarks that have been made by certain mem- bers liere, carried to their logical conclusion, would destroy all historical memories and collections. History is invaluable, not alone as a collection of past events; but as a matter of reference, whereby future generations may map out their lines ot prog'ress, and select those conclusions that have been shown by time and experience to be practicable and sensible. And it seems to me that on the present occasion, we should indeed be imbued more by the spirit of liberality than one of parsimony, .^s regards the economical administration of this soon-to-be state, there is no member of this convention that will be actuated by a more economical spirit Ihan myself. But I believe there is a wide distinction between economy and par- 50 I>lt(»(:i;KI)l\ would become practically invaluable. (Laughler."! And that is about as near, Mr. President, as we have come to locating any time when these proceed- ings will be of any value whatever. Now, for my pai't, I am not willing to vote these taxes upon Ihe peojile of Montana, because I believe I hat tiiey themselves would not incur it if Ihey had a voice in the matter; and we should not be more liberal with their money than they themselves would be. Tiierefore, I believe it is eminenlly projier to lay this whole matter on the table. The PresidiMil: I would inform Ihe gentleman lliat there is a motion before the convention to indefinitely postpone the projiosition. Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: Now if this mailer is indefinitely post- poned, as I understanil, that discharges by that act the official stenographer already employed. The President: The motion includes the discharge of the stenographer. Mr. Hickards: As I said the oilier day wlien liiis matter was up. I am in favor of the employmoni of an official stenographer to assist tli(> clerk in makihg up his record, and I w(Hild be sorry to see Ihe matter inciefi- nitely postponed: for wliile 1 am not in favor of the employment of an official slenoKrapber and an assistant to li'anscribe what he mav lake down into long hand, yet I am in favor, as I say, (d' an idlicial slenograjiher to assist Ihe chief clerk. Now. as has already been said by Mi-. Hobinson, if this stenographer could lake down Ihe debates in the commillee rooms, CDNt^'lTl'L TIONAL CO.NVE.NTIO.N 1889 "iVl where, I believe, the most Drilliant tilings will be said during our sitting in (his body, I do not know but il might possibly be of some assistance or a source of some information for future generations. I had the pleasure last night of hearing in a committee upon which I have the honor to serve, from our brilliant friend, Major Mat;innis, a sentiment that I would like to see in print and preserved for all future time— the most brilliant thing that I have heard since I came into this convention. But that would be impracticable. I am in favor of the einploymenl of an official stenog- rapher, and therefore I shall vole against the indefinite postponement of the proposition: and if that motion to indefinitely postpone is not carried, 1 stiall ask lor a division ol the i)roposition belore us that we may employ an official stenographer, but nol to provide for the transcript into long hand of what has been said. Mr. Muth, of Lewis & Clarkiv I move that Ibis question be divided now. 1 am not in favor of having this work transcribed immediately, but I am in favor of retaining our stenographer. I have no doubt that his notes will be of value, and the time will come when the first legislature of the State of Montana will want these notes transcribed into long hand. That will be ample time to do it. They will then be in a position to pay for the work, and they can provide I he funds for the payment of it. The question, as it strikes me. can be readily divided — one proposition to lay the report of the committee on the table, and (be other as to the discharge of the stenographer. It strikes me that it can be done very easily, and I ask for a division of the question. The President: Is there any objeclion to dividing this question If not, the question before the convention will be upon the indefinite postpone- ment of Ihe report of the committee t)n printing, except as to that portion which relates to the discharge of the stenographer. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. Chairman, I call for the ayes and noes upon this question. The President: The gentleman calls for the ayes and noes. All thosj •,v favor of the ayes and noes being called will rise to their feet. There is a sufficient number to call for the ayes and noes. The motion now IS upon the indefinite postponement of the report of the committee upon printing, except as to that clause which relates to the discharge of the stenograplier. which is divided and will be made a separate question. Mr. .Middleton. of Custer: Mr. President, do I understand that the debate is closed on this matter? The President: I would say to the gentleman that Ihe ayes and noes have been called on Ihis ruiestion and the debate is closed. .Mr. .Middleton: With the indulgence of Ihe convention, however, I wou'd like to say that (he matter of the shorthand notes will be absolutely worlhless unless they were transcribed. If .Mr. ' Connolly, the official stenograplier should die. no living man could read his notes, and the probabiliti(>s are that within 5 years he could not transcribe his notes, ir Ihey are (aken down, they would praclii-ally be of no value whatever, except to transcribe them. The clerk called the roll and the nieinbers responded as follows: Ayes: liurleigh. Burns (.\. J. , Buford, Bullard, Breen, Carpenter, Chessman, Courtney, Dyer, Eaton. Gillette, (iaylonl. Haskell. Hobson. Hammond, Hershfield. Hickman, .loyes, Joy. Knippenbern. Kohrs, Ivanouse, Loud, Luce. Muth, Marshall. Marion, Parberiy. Reek, Robinson, Rotwitt, Rickards, !r«tapleton, iSchmidt. SargenI, Wittei-. Walson — 3r>. iN'ays: .\iken, Browne, Brazleton. Burns (Edward-, Burns (A. F.\ Bick- i'ord, Conrad. Collins. Cooper, Cardwell, Craven, Cauby, Callaway. Durfee, Dixon, Fields, Graves, Ciibson, Goddard, Hartman. Hatch, Hogan, Kennedy^ Ivnowles, .Mitchell. .Middleton. Myers. Mayger. .Maginnis, Ramsdell, Toole (J. R. , Toole 'J. K. . Webster. Winston, Whitehill, Warren, .Mr. Presi- dent— 37. The President: The vote stands as follows: .\yes, 3(5: .Noes, 37. the motion to indefinitely postpone is lost, 'the (Juestion now recurs upon the original resolution that the report of the committee be adopted. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, I call for the ayes and noes. A sufficient number being in favor of the ayes and noes the clerk called the roll and the vote resulted as follows: Ayes: Aiken. Browne, Burleigh, Burns (Edward'. Burns ( A. F.\ Bickford, Conrad, Collin.s, Coop- er. Cardwell, Craven, Callaway, Dixon, Fields, (iraves, Gibson, Goddard, CO l>H()(:KKI)lX(iS AM) HKBAIKS Harlinan, . Halcli, Hogan, KiMiuccly. Knowles, Mili'licll. Miilillrlnn. Myers. May^^er, MaglniiJs, Hainsdoll, Toole (J. R.', TooIp 'J. K. , WcbsliT, Winston, Wliitehill, Warren, Mr. President— 35. Nays: Bi-azleton, Burns lA. J.', Biil'ord. Builard. Breen, Carpenter, CliessHian, Cauby, Courtney, Durfee, Uyer, Katon, (iiilette, (iayiord, llasiieli, Hobson, Hammond, Hersiitieid. Hicliman, Joyes, .Joy. Knippenberg, l\olirs, ivanoiise, CoiKi. Luce, .\lulli, .Marsliali, .Marrion, Parberry, Keek, Kobinson. liolvvitt, itickards, istapleton, Schmidt, Sargent, \\ dter, Watson — 39. The President: J'he vote stands as follows: Ayes, 3.5; Noes, 39. The motion to adopt the report of the committee is lost. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow, sent up a resolution to the clerk's desk, and the same was read as follow-s: Resolution No. 13. "Resolved, That the legislative assembly shall have no power to make an appropriation for any purpose whatever for a longer period than two years." The l-'resulenl: If Ihere be no objection, this resolution will be re- ceived and referred to committe(^ number 3. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau, sent \ip a resolution to the clerk's desk, which was read as follows: "Resolution No. I'l. Resolved, That there shall be no new counlies established, unless the assessed valuation within the limits or boundaries described for the proposed county, shall be .¥3,000,00(1 or more. No lerrilory shall be taken from any county whereby it would leave said county with less than $-'1,000,000 of assessed property." The I-'resident: If there be no objection this resolution will be re- ceived and referred to the committee on city, town and county organiza- tions. The President: The gentleman from Park 'Mr. Eaton'i offers the fol- lowing proposition, which the clerk will read. • 'I'he clerk read as follows: "Proposition No. 5. Education. Article — , Section — . Every parent, guardian or other person in the state of Montana, having control of an\' child between the ages of 8 and ti years who is of ordinary physical and mental strength, shall be required to send such child to a public or private school, taught by a competent instructor for a period of at least 12 weeks in each year, (5 weeks of which shall be consecutive. The legislative as- senilily shall by appropriate legislation carry this section into full force and effect." The President: This proposition will be refei'red to tlie coinniittee on education, if there be no objection. The Clerk then read as follows: "Proposition No. 6 offered by Mr. Eaton of Park, l^alior. .\rticle — , Section — . No child nnder li years of age shall by any coi'poration or person be employed in either mines or manufactures in this state." The President: This proposition will be referred to tlie committee on labor (No. 23', if there be no objection. 'I'he President: The gentleman from Gallatin Mr. laice offers the following resolution. 'J'he clerk read as follows: "Resolution No. 15. Resolved. That no citizen of tln' state sliaU e\er be required to obtain a license from, or to iiay any tax of money to, the state, or any county thereof, or municipal corporation therein, for the privilege or authority to carry on or indulge in any trade, profession, occupation or liusiness whatever." The President: This resolution will be referred to coininitlee number 1 on the finances of the stat(\ if tliere be no objection. Tile PresKleiit: The gentleman from Park (.Mr. ,Ioy offers the fol- lowing proposition. The clerk read as follows: "Proposilion No. 7. Labor. Section I. .No corporation now existing or lii'realter formed under the laws of this state, sliall, after tlie adoplioii of this constitution, employ directly or indirectly in any capacity, any Chini'se or Mongolian, rtie legislature shall pass such laws as may be necessary to enforce this proposition. Section 2. No Chinese shall be emiiloyed on any state, county, munici- pal or other public work within this stale, except as punisliment for crime. Section 3. 'J'he legislature shall discourage by all means within its power the inunigration to this slate dI' all foreigners ineli^jililc to become CONSTITL ridXAI. CiiW i;.N I |n.\ i.ss') 01 citizens of tln' United Stati's. All cunlriU'ts lor Ctimeso of coolio labor to be porfornii'd in this state to be void. All companies or corporations whether formed in this country or any foreign country, for the importa- tion of such labor, shall be punished tiy such fines and penalties as the legislature may prescribe. The legislature shall delegate all necessary power to the incorporated cities or towns in this stale, for the removal of Chinese without the limits of such cities, and every other location within pi-escribed portions of those limits." The President: If there be no ob.jection this proposition will be re- ferred to committee No. 23 on labor. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke vMr. Burns offers the following. Tlie clerk read as follows: "Proposition Xo. 8. Whereas the subject of irrigation is of paramount interest to the state of Montana, and one wliich deserves the serious con- sideration of this convention, as on it depends in a great measure tlie future prosperity of the agricultural inlerests of this state, in view- of this fact, the following articles shall obtain a place in this constitution. The legislatui'e shall provide for the construction and maintenance of a system of irrigating canals and ditches in this state. Such canals an gentleman from Park (.Mr. l-'ieldS' will be received if there be no objection, and referred to the committee on labor. The projiosition offered by the gentleman fi'om Silver Bow (Mr. Hogaii will now be read. The clerk read as follows: "Proposition No. 3. To prevent impoited labor under contract into the state of .Montana. It shall be unlawful foi' any individual, company or corporation, having work done in the stale of .Montana, to import into the state any persoil or persons under contract or agreement to perform any labor in "the slale of Montana. That any inifividual, company or corporation violating any provision hereof, shall" forfeit lo the slate .$1000 for each and e\ery viola- lion hereof, to be recovered by an action at law. The President: If there be no otijection, this proposiljoii will be re- ferred lo the committee on labor. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis A Clarke: Mr. President. I move that the stenographer of this convention he assigned to aid the chief clerk and the various committees as Ihe President shall direct. \\"e seem to have a stenogr'apher, hut with notlnng lo do, and there are quite a number of commilte(>s that neeil assistance: Ihe chief ch'rk may iie(Nl his assistance: and llierelore I make the motion. Tlie Pr'esidenI: It is mo\ ed and s(M'oiided that the stenographer be assigned to aiil the chief clerk and Ihe committees of the convention as the president may direct. The chair then put the (picstion and a division being called for. tli(> motion was carried by a \ote of i2 to I"). Mr. Goddard, oi' Yellowstone: Mr. President, in view of Ihe fact Ihat the convention cannot return from (ireat (•'alls until noon SaUirday, I move you now that the coinenllon adjourn until Monday. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKM'IOX 1889 G3 Mr. Harlman, of Gallatin: Air. Pi-esirlcut, before Ihe motion is put, 1 sliouid like to ask leave of abspiu-e until 3 o'clock Monday afternoon; 1 desire to go home. The President: If tliere be no objection the gentleman from Oallatin will be excused untu Monday at 3 p. m. Mr. Hickford, of Missoula: Mr. (jliairman, I move an amendment to the motion of Ihe gentleman from ^ellowstone, that when the convention adjourn, if adjourn until Monday at 2 o'clock P. .M. 1 am in favor of allow- ing those persons who see fit to go home in Ihe meantime, an opportunity to return Del'ore the meeting of the convention on Monday. Mr. Maginnis: Mr. ^resident, I ask unanimous consent to. offer a resolution before the motion to adjourn is put. I did not ha\e it ready in the regular order of business. The President: If there be no objection, the gentleman will be al- lowed to offer the resolution. , Mr. Maginnis: I wouiu like to liave it embodied by tliis convention in a memoi'ial to the president and congress of the United States. The clerk read the resolution as follows: "Whereas the governinenl of the United Slates nas customai'ily granted to the new states all the swamp lands within their bnundaries: and whereas the quantity of such land in the slate of ..lOnlana is very limited and of little value, ami the government should deal as liberally wilh this stale as with our prede- cessors. Resolved, that in lieu of the swamp lands, the government should grant to the state of Montana all the arid lands wilhin its boundaries, on such oondilions as may provide, that the value of such lands shall be devoted to the purpose of constructing and maintaining reservoirs, aque- ducts, ditches and olher modes of reclaiming the same by irrigation and making them productive and valuable." The President: If there be no objection, this resolution will be referred to the commitlee on irrigation. The motion now is that when the conven- tion adjourn, it adjourn until 2 P. M.. Monday. Mr. Burleigh: Mr. Presidenl. I think the hour should be put at i P. M., as Ihe eastern train does not get in until that time, and there are several genllemen living in the eastern part of the territory who wish to go home: and 1 do not think, from the preparations that will undoulitedly be made at (Jreat Falls to give the convention a fine entertainment, that they will care much about taxing their brains wilh any very excessive mental labor immediately upon their reliirn. I have been in the habit of attending mailers of that kind myself, and from my own experience 1 am strongly induced to urge the motion. The amendment was accepted by Mr. Bickford. The President: The question then is upon the motion to fix Ihe hour to which the convention shall adjourn at 4 o'clock on Monday instead of 2 o'clock. The chair then put the motion and the same was carried. Mr. Burleigh: I move that we do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. The chair put the moticm and the same was duly carried and the convention stood adjourned until Monday, July 1.5th, 1889, at i o'clock P. M. KIGIITH DAY. Moiida.v. ,ht\y ir.th. 1SS3. Convention was cTlied lo order by the president a! 1 o'clock P. .M. The clerk called the roll. The President: Mr. J. R. Toole of .Xnaconda desires to be excused, as he desires lo leave on imporlaiil business. An excuse is also asked for Mr. Oaylord. If there be no objeclion, these gentlemen will be excused. The clerk read the journal of the preceding day. The chaplain offered prayer. The clerk then read the following communications. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: Mr. Presid^'nl. I move you. sir, Ihal the communication now in the hands of Ihe clerk be referred to the committee of the whole, to be considered in coniieclion with the report of the com- mittee on preamble and bill of rights when the same is taken up. C4 PROCKEDINCS AM) DKliATKS The motion was set'oiidod. 'i'lie chair put the nintion ami ttie same was carried. Ttio cloriv tlicii read a commumcatioii Irom Messrs. iN. W. Harris »Sc Co., Banlvcrs ot Chicago, lii., dated July 3rd, 1889, urging the coiiveutioii to emiiody in the cons! itui ion a provision limiting the indeldedness of any ( ounty, city, township, school district or other municipal corporation m tlie state of Montana, to a rate not to exceed five per cent of the valua- tion of the taxable property thereof, to be ascertained by the last assess- ment pi'ovious to the incurring of any such indebtedness. .Mi-. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, I move that the (•(innnniiica- tioii be laid on the table. I'lie motion was seconded. The cliair put the motion and the same was carried. .Mr. Joy, of Jefferson: Mr. l^resident, I desire to present Ihe following petition and request that it be read. The clerk then read as follows: "Petition for equal suffrage. To the honorable members of (lie constitutional convention of Montana. We the undersigned adult citizens of Montana, desiring that our woman citi- zens may enjoy all the privileges of statehood that our men will, would respectfully pray and petition your honorable body lo incorporate in our slate constitution about to be framed, an equal suffrage provision." The petition was signed by several citizens. Mr. Goddard, of Vellowslone: I move that the petition be referred to the commiltee on suffrage. The motion was seconded. j'he chair then put the motion and the same was carried. Mr. Rictcards, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, the committee on educa- tion desire to make a report. The President: The report of the chairman of the committee on education will now be read. The clerk read as follows: "Mr. PresidenI, your committee on educa- tion, to whom was referred proposition number 5. introduced by Mr. Katon, entitled education, beg leave to report that they ha\e duly consid- ered tlie same, and respectfully recommend that it do not pass. (Signed) J. E. HICKARDS, Chairman." Mr. Bickfonl: .Mr. I^resident, your commillee number 1 desire to re- port. The President: Does the convention desire to take any action upon the report of Ihe committee on education with reference to the propo- sition? Mr. Rickards: Mr. President. 1 mo\-e thai it be filed for general orders. The President: If there be no objeclion, it will be so referred. The clerk read the report of commiltee N'o. I, as follows: "Mr. Pres- ident, your committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights, to whom was referred resolutions No. 1, and 2, would mosi respectfully report thai Ihey tiave had the same under consideration, and r(>turn the same without recommendation. (Signed) W. M. HICKFORIX Chairman." Mr. Ivennedy, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I move thai thi' I'eporl of the committee just read be placed upon file fop general orders. The motion was seconded. 'J'he chair put the motion and Ihe same was declared carried. Mr. Maginnis: Mr. Cliairman, the committee on Kxecutive Department beg I'vave to report as follows, and ask that the re|iorl be printed and re- coniiiulted, or if that is not tlie custdin (d Ihe cdincnlKin, dial il be placet! on I lie general file. The clerk read as follows: "To Ihe presnleiil of th(> convenlion. Sir, your committee to whom was referred the subject i\\' the Kxecutive De- partment, respecirully beg leave tn subinil llie Inllnwing as llieir unani- mous report. (Signed) MARTIN' MA(ilN.MS, Chairman." "Section I. The Kxecutive Deiiartment shall consist of n Covei'nor. I.ieulenani (io\criior. Secretary of State, Treasurer, Stale .\udilor, and Sui)erintendeni iif Public Instruction." CUNbTITLTIONAL CONVENTION 1«89 65 Mr. Maginnis: I do not know as there is any necessity for reading the report. The members can get at it better by having it printed and placed upon their tables. The President: If there is no objection to dispensing with the reading ot this report, it will be placed upon the general file. .Mr. t^onrad, of Choteau: ^(r. President, your committee on Printing beg leave to report. The clertc read as follows: "Mr. President, your committee on Print- mg. to wiiom was referred the rules and order of business, have carefully examineil the same, and find that thev have been correctlv printed. (Signed C. E. CONR.\D. Chairman." The clerk again read as follows: ".Mr. President, the committee on Printing to whom was ref(>rred resolution No. 'i. introduced by Mr. Watson of Fergus, in relation to the matter of publishmg the laws, beg leave to report, that they have had the same mider consideration and report it back without recommendation, believing that it is more proper for legis- lative action, than action bv this convention. Signed^ C. E. CONRAD, Chairman." The President: It will require the action of this convention to have this report printed. What is the desire of the convention with reference to it? Mr. Watson, of Fergus: Mr. President. I would desire to ask the mdulgence of the convention to make a ininority report, in addition to the majority report of the Printing committee, I liave not been advised of anything in this committee, and it is not to my knowledge. The President: Has the gentleman from Fergus a report prepared? Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis A Clarke:- I move that permission be extended to the gentleman to file a minority report, when he has it ready. The motion was seconded. The chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. The clerk then read as follows: ".Mr. President, your committee on printing have carefully compared propositions Nos. 1 and 2. and examined the same, and find them correctlv printed. (Signed' C. E. CONRAD. Chairman." The clerk again read as follows: ".Mr. President, your committee on labor request longer time before reporting on proposition number 7. re- lating to Chinese labor, also proposition No. 3. relating to the importation of laborers under contract, and resolution No. 17. relating to the protection of discharged emploves. (Signed PETER BREEN. Chairman." The President: If there be no objection this committee will he al- lowed further time to report. The clerk again read as follows: "Mr. President, your committee on Labor make the following report and recommend the adoption of the same. The committee on Labor recommend: Sec. I. That a bureau of labor and industry shall he established, to be located at the capital of the state, which shall be under the management of a commissioner who shall be appointed by the Governor, subject to the confirmation of the Senate, and shall hold his office for the same term as the executive state officers. Sec. 2. The commissioner of labor and industry shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as may be prescribed by law. and it shall be the duty of the legislative assembly at its first session to prescribe such duties and compensation, and to pass such laws as may lie necessary for the government, regulation and support of such bureau. Section 3. That no person or persons convicted of a crime in the State of Montana, and while under sentence for the same, shall not be allowed to labor for any- individual, company or corporation: neither shall the State have power to enter into agreement or contract with any indi- vidual, company or corporation to have convicts do any labor that will in any way compete with free labor. Section 4. That no child under fourteen years of age shall by any corporation or person be emploved in either mines or manufactories in this State. (jlj l'UO(;EEl»l.\ that it is now ready to announce coiiimiltee .No. 2i on Irrigalion. The committee will consist'as follows: Parberry, Meyers. Burleij:li, Ivohi's. Luce, (iraves, Mitchell, Hobson, Marion, Buford and Chessman. The Presidenl: The regular order of business has now been passed. Is there anything lurllier lo come brdore the convention? Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move we ailjoiirn. Tlie motion was seconde(l. The chair |uit llie motion and tli(> same was declared carried, and the convention stood adjourned until Tuesday, July Kith, 1889, at 10 A. M. CU.NSl I IL riOXAl, t:().\VKM10.\ 1889 67 MMH DAY. Tuesday. .Iiil.> Kith, ISSn. Tho convenlion was called to order by the president at 10 A. M. The elerk called the roll. Mr. .1. H. Toole of iJin'r Lodge was excused. The President announced that he had a letter Irom Mr. (iaylord, say- ing that the WTiter was quite unwell, and acting under the advice of his physician, and that he might not be able to be in attendance for two or three days. .Mr. Gay lord was excused. The Chaplain offered prayer. The clerk read the journal of the previous day. .Mr. \\ arren, of Silver bow: .Mr. l^resident, 1 beg leave to present the following memorial. The clerk read as follows: "I herewith submit to your honors, the following, which I trust will receive at your hands the unprejudiced and nonseclarian consideration it merits." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, I move to suspend the reading of the memorial and refer it to a commit! ee. The President: The chair is of the opinion that it requires a suspen- sion of the rules to dispense with the reading of memorials and petitions. Mr. Burleigh: I then move to suspend the rules. The motion was seconded. The chair stated Ihe motion. -Mr. Hickards. of Silver Bow: Before that motion is put I would like to know from whom this memorial emanates. The clerk slated that the memorial was signed "U. B. Whitford." The chair put the motion, and a division being called for the same was carried by a vote of 46 to 7. Mr. Toole, of Lewis \ Clarke: .Mr. President. Ihe commillee on Legis- lative Departments wisli to report. The clerk read as follows: "Mr. President, the committee on Legis- lative Departments have had under consideration resolution number 13, and have directed me to report adversely and recommended that it lie upon the table. (Signed' J. K. TUULK, Chairman." The President: What is the pleasure of the convention concerning this report. Mr. .Magimiis, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 mo\f that the resolution be laid on the table. The motion was seconded. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow, requested that the resolution be read. .Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: 't'hat was Ihe report of the committee, that it should simply be reported adversely. There was no report that it should lie upon the table. The accompanying report was written by the clerk and not signed. The President: Being I'eported adversely, it is within Ihe discretion of the convention whether it shall be printed or not. Mr. Maginnis: I move that it go up on tho general file. The President: It will take that order unless otherwise disposed of. The printing of il is within the discretion of the convention. The chair would suggest to the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke that Ihe report of the committee contains this clause, "Ihat it do lie upon the table." Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: .\s stated by me, Ihat was the report as inserted by the clerk: it was nol intended, and I nsk that it be with- drawn. Mr. Holwilt. of Meagher, sent up report which the clerk read as fol- lows: ".Mr. President, your committee on suffrage, lo whom was referred lesohilion No. 12 relating to suffrage, introduced by Allan R. Joy. ha\e had Ihi' same under consideration, and do respectfully return it herewith with the recommendation that it do not pass. (Signed' L. FK »|'WIT T, Chairman." The President: This report will take its regular course, if there be no other disposition to be made of it. Mr. .Middlelon, of Custer: Mr. President, it seems to me that rule number 23 requires all matters placed on the general file to be printed. 6S PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES and my idea is tlial it is not desirable at all, that thesi- matters that are reported adversely sliould be, printed. I may not be right, but that is my understanding of it — that 100 copies of the file for each day shall be printed. As soon as a matter is placed on the file, it is practically ordered to be printed. The President: I would call the attention of the gentleman from Custer to the first part of rule Number 23, in which it says, that if reported favorably, such propositions shall be printed: otherwise they shall be within the discretion of the convention, and thereupon shall be placed upon the general file. It is true that it may seem to be conflictmg as the last clause .states that 1(X) copies of the file shall be prmted each day, tiut the language of the rule' is not ambiguous. Mr. Watson, of Fergus, sent up a report. The President: 'the minority report of the committee on printing offered by the gentleman from l^'ergus, will now be read. The clerk read as follows: "The report of the minority committee on printing, etc. The undersigned, a member of the committee on printing, etc., respectfully begs leave to submit the following report upon the reso- lution on the subject of the publication of tlie general laws, which was reported back by the majority of Ihe committee with the recommendation that no action be taken by the convention. I would have been glad of the opportunity to present to the full committee such considerations that appeared to me to be important; but was engaged upon another committee and had no notice of a meeting of the committee on printing having been called. No reason is presented by the majority of the committee for their recommendation, beyond the intimation that they believe the subject to be one which ought properly to be left for the consideration of the legis- lature. Of course I think it may be assumed, that it is deemed by the majority as an unimportant maiter, which the legislature may or may not act upon at its discretion. The undersigned much mistakes the general tone and opinion of this convention, if they shall be found to agree with the majority after full consideration shall have been had: and he objects on his own behalf, and in his judgment on behalf of a large majorily of the people. The Presidenl: If there be no objection this report will be received and placed upon the general file; but will not be printed except by order of the ( onvention. Mr. Calloway, of Madison: I desire to inquire whether' the report of the majority was received, as it may be of some interest to this convention, I move that Ihe minority report be ordered printed. The motion was seconded. The President: The clerk has raised the question whelhrr the pre- amble shall be included in the printing, or whelher that portion of it v,hich would really constitute the I'epoii. Mr. Calloway: Mr. Presidenl. if I am m order, it seems proper to have all the report printed. The chair stated the motion. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I iKipi' this motion will nol cni'ry. If we stretch the construclion of the rules, so as to provide for the iiriulmg of tlie reports ot the committees, then the general file will be lumbered with reports upon e\ery concei\atjle subject from the committees of this house. I do not believe that a fair consli'iiclion of the rules requires Ihat any minority report of a committee shall be printed or shall be placed upon tile. The rules, it seems to me, provide that any matter introduced re- lating to the constitution shall be read and referred lo a commiltee. and that nolliiiig shall be placed upon file except a favorable report of such commillee. The committee coiisid(>rs everything Ihat is placed before it and acts upon it, digesl.s it and brings in its report. .Now there is no com luiltee of this body as 1 understand it. tliat is compelhni |o report ad- versely on any proposition. It can reiiort adversely, but is not coinrielled under the rules to report adversely. It decides upon everything before il and reports, and Ihat repoi't it seems to me und(M' the rules is the only thing that is i)laced upon the files, and is printed for the benefit of the con\'enlion. Now all Ihese adverse repoi'ls can he brought before the convention when Ihe report of the comnultei' of tli(> whole is placed bi'fore the convenlion. CONSriTLTKi.XAL Co.WK.Nl H »N iss;) 69 I know lliis was the Inriii nT procodurc m llio i-dinrntinn of l&Sl, and I do not bplifive llic rules of this convention are so materially changed, Itiaf this IS not the propiT construction of the present rule. Certainly if you allow every report to be placed on file and print^d. and allow every inemher of this conviMition to make voluminous reports upon mery sub- ject, before it, then we mij-iit as well make up our minds to stay here all summer, and possibly a lutle lonpcr. Mr. Mnkllelon. of Custer: 1 heartily concur in the remarks made by the K''ntlf'iia>i from (lascade. There can be no doubt that if matters of this kind so onto the general file, whether printed or not. that we have a six months job before us. Every one of these little matters will neces- sitate perhaps half a day or a days time in their discussion: and. as has been suggested, if any member or a minority- of a committee, are of the opinion, or desire to report in some other way, they can offer it in the way of a substitute or amendment to the report at the time the report is received: they can both go in together, so that if one or the other goes on the file, they will constitute but one report Now the report of the majority on this resolution was adverse: that is not printed or ordered printed. Here is a report of one of a committee of five, which it is pro- posed to order printed and placed on the general file. I am certainly op- posed to it and do not think it is a proper way to gel at il. We never can make a constitution on earth in that kind of way. Mr. Toole, of l^ewis & Clarke: Mr. President, I think there is a mis- apprehension on what is intended by the general fife, and I think the at- tention of the convention ouglit to be called to it at this time in connection with this particular subject. I do not believe it was the intention of the committee on rules in the formation of rule .No. 23, that these several propositions that were reported back from committees of Ihe convention should be reported back and numbered General l-'iles No. 1, 2. 3, 4, etc., but that it was the intention of Ihe committee that when a report was made favorable, that that proposition, whalcNcr it was. should be numbered proposition No. 1, 2, or 3, as the case might be. and that it should be printed as such, and that il should be shown that it had gone to the com- mittee of the whole, and that is what was meant by the sentence at the close of rule No. 23. that 100 copies of the general file shall be printed each day, so that something in Ihe form of a calendar should be had for each day, showing that proposition No. 2 was reported on a certain day from a certain committee, ami was then pending before the committee of the whole: that jn'oposilions No. 3, i and •'). should they be reported ad- versely as Ihe case might be. had been reported back and were pending, and that from day to day. a calendar or general file should be printed, showing what business was then pendins before the convention. There is nothing now for the information of this convention except to hunt up what are denonnnnled general files, and get them together, by which we can ascertain what business is before the convention, whereas I think the intention of the committee on rules was that a general file or calendar, if vou please, should be printed each day, showing what business was then pending belore Ihe committee of the whole, so tliat every member of without any recommendation whatever, that so far as the printing was concerned, it was to be in the hands of the convention, and it was considered that in the event that there was a nnnority report, or a favorable report in which every question was con- sidered "at length or liberally discussed, it should remain for the conven- tion to say whether or not that report should he printed. The suggestion I made in the outset. I Ihink ought to be passed upon in some sort of way, either by the president or the convention itself in the interests of the orderly dispatch of business. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, to bring this matter directly t)efor(> the convention I rise to a point of order that the motion is not in order under the rules. The President: the chair wduhl like to have the sense of the con- vention upon this subject. 70 i'iii)t:)';i:i)iN<;s and debates Mr. Calloway, of Madison: I would like to ask lor inriu-irialiiiii I'rnm llii' jirntleman as to what rulo governs lliis motion. Ml-. Collins: Tlie motion of the gentleman from Madison is that tins entire reporl'be placed upon the general file and printi-d as 1 under- stand it. .Now rule No. 24 provides as follows: ".\ll propositions and res- olulions emhracmg mailers proposed to he iiu'or[)oraled in the constitu- tion, I he printing of which is provided for in subdivision 23, and all olhor printing for the use of the convention shall he ilone undei' direetion" etc. There is not a word that any report of a ciunimtlee sliall lie printed, neitlicr in that rule, nor in any other of the rules of our conxcntion. My idea is that under a fair construction of the rules, nothing can be printed except by the consent of the convention, unless it be a majority report of a committee; but cerlainly under no rule, nor under any radical con- struction of a rule, can a report of a committee be printed, unless the house first says so. .Mr. Toole, of Lewis tV: Clarke: Mr. Presidcnl. I desiri' to call tlie attention of the chair to rule 'So. 23, in which all points of order are sub- mitted to the l^resident of the convention, tie can pass upon them in the tirst instance, and then if any member of tin.' coiucntion feel dissatisfied il. can be submitted to the convention. The President: The rule, I believe, is Ihal tlii> cliair may ask the consent of the convention, if he is himself in doubt upon any question. The chair desires to give the widest liberality to the minority, and unless it is insisted upon, the chair would prefer that the convention should oecide the point itself. Mr. Collins: 1 withdraw the point of order. Mr. President. The President: The point of order is withdrawn. Mr. Kickards, of t^ilver Bow: 1 would like to ask for information, what was done with the majority report that was considered yesterday. Tlie clerk announced that the report of the majority of tlie committee was placed on general orders. The l-'resident: 1 would state to the genlleman from Silver Bow, that the report was not ordered to be printed. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Mr. l-'resident, 1 understood from the chair that tlie majority report had been ordered printed; and 1 so understood it in making my motion; if that repoi't has not fieeii ordered priiiled, I sliall certainly ask consent to wilhdraw my motion. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. l-'resideni, I believe this matter will come before the convention every day, and I would like to ask the l^resident to give a decision on the matter. The l-'resident: The cliair is of tlie opinion that no rejiort. except the report of the committee which necessarily is a majorily report, can be ordered jirinted. if it is a favoralile report it will lake its regular course and be ordered printed; if il is an ad\erse rei)ort, it can only be printed by order of the convenlion. Mr. Collins: Is il the view of the chair lliat not the report itself; but the propositions and resolutions which llii'y rrcommend shall be adopted oil rejected shall be printed? The President: The proposition or resolution itself, of course, if reported fa\orably shall be ordered printed. .Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: I do not know whether all this discus- sion is in order or not; but since the genlleman from Cascade (.Mr. Collins raises the question, it does appear to me that a minority report should be treated with as much deference and respect as llie majority report. 1 do not believe thai Ihe sense of this convention would order otherwise, ami as 1 understand rule i\o. 23, or subdivision .\o. 23, as il is called, the iirinting of the report was that i)arl of it to bi> eiiibodi(>s in the constilul ion. That was the part that was to be printed at the discretion of this conxcnnin. The President: (I'eadingi "Thi' m;i.|iiril\ rrpdci if taxurahle shall be i>riiited." .Mr. Hickards: But (he minoiilv i-cpm-l can bi^ lu-mled al Ihe dis- cretion of this convention. The President: Of course the minority report can he taken up and printed. The convenlion can order anything done; bul accordnit: lo this rule it. would not be in order at this lime. Mr. Maginnis: Mr. Chairman, in case of a majority report, as I under stand, you simply rei)or| the mattcM's Ihal Ihe cnmmilli'c n'porls. not Ihi^ C.O.NSl TIL 1 iO.NAl. i.O.W K.N ri().\ I.SS'J 71 repoii itself: olliorwise I shuuld bo very strongly of tlie .same oijiiiion as the gentleman fi-om 5ved. or his sense of justice abused, 1 would be in favor of giving him every privilege, going so far as to give him the same right to print and put his views upon the records of tins convenlion as all the rest of the members of the convention. But if the rule stands as interpreted by the chair, that each will have lo appeal to the convention, I see no necessily for further action. Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. President, it does not seem to mo that thei-e should be any difficully in the inlerpretation of this rule. There is nothing in rule 23 that authorizes the report itself, whether favorable or unfavorable, to be printed, as a matter of course or other- wise. It refers simply to the propositions. .Ml the propositions and reso- lutions embracing matter likely to be incorporated in the constitution, leported by a standing or special commdtee, shall be read and reported, and if reported back favorably, not such report but such resolution or proposition shall be ordered printed: otherwise the printing thereof shall he wijhin the discretion of the convention, and thereupon the same shall be placed upon the general file kept by the clerk: that is the general file v.hu-h I suggested a moment ago: not the printing of the proposition itself at length, .hut the general file or calendar, whatever you may be pleased lo call it: but it especially provides that not the report but the resolution or iiroposition shall be printed. The Prpsident: That principle the chair holds to be correct. -Mr. C^oddard, of Yellowstone: .Mr. President, I desire to call the attention of the committee on towns and counties to the resolution which I introduced in relation to county and precinct officers, four days ago. No rpport lias as yet been made. the President: Can the chairman of that committee give the gentle- man anv information? Mr. Brown, of Choteau: I would say. Mr. President, that the time in whifh the committee was given to report has not yet elapsed. the President: The genlleman explains that the time in which llie committee was given to report has not yet elapsed, and that the (ommittee has further time m which to make a report on the proposition. Mr. Ealon. of Park: I desire to introduce the following resolution and movi- its adoption. The President: The clerk will read the resolution offered by the f'-'nt'eman from Park. the clerk read as follows: "Whereas under the provision of the enabling act of congress, the employes of this convention have been lim- ited, defined and designated, so far as the liability of the general govern- ment is concerned to pay the same: and whereas this convention has em- ployed clerks and pages largely in excess of the requisite and necessary number required: and whereas the state of Montana will be called upon to pay sucti unwarranted expenditures of money: and whereas to reduce the force of I he employes of this convention would not impede or retard the labors of this body. Therefore be it resolved that two pages, three clerks, and the assistant sergeant at arms, be and thev are hereby discharged. The motion was seconded by .Mr. Kobinson. I'he President staled the ouestion. .Mr. Katon. of Park: .Mr. President, in support of that resolution. I simply desire to say that 1 believe lliat the extra persons or the persons named are entirely unnecessary- lo Ihe orderly and speedy dispatch of the liiismess before this body. .Mr. i'oole. of Lewis A Clarke: 1 rise to a point of order, and beg to refer you, sir, to rule i!3. The point of order is that these resolutions should he referred lo the proper committee without debate. The President: I would say thai the chair would suggest to the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, that rule 22 refers as the chair under- stands it to propositions and resolutions relating to matter to be incor- porated in the constitution. This is a matter that is not concerned- in 72 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES tlie coiistilutiun, ami is iiol a inatlur to Iju iiicorpuratctJ iii tlie coiistilulion. and hence 1 UfcidL' Uiat tlu' pomt ol orUei' is uoL well lakeii. All'. Eaton, ol I'ark: Conlimunij;, Air. Presideiil. 1 siiiipl.s desire tu close by saying, Itial these einiilnyes being as 1 understand it not at all necessary, and solely a burden and expense, shall lliouyli it be, to the lulure state ol Monlana, 1 see no reason why they should be conhnued here undiM- |ia\. 1 lliereloi-e iii(i\r thai resnludon and I liupe it win prevail. i\lr. .Middleluii, ul Ciislii': .Mr. ri't'sident, 1 had tin.' huncjr las! winter to be a nieniher ul one branch ol the lei^islature, and Iruin a political pouU ol \iew was in llie iiunority, or rather w'lth the ininority. In each house or Ihe leyisialui-e which was entitled according to law to identically the same number ol employes and atlaclies that we are entitled to in this con\ention under the enabling act ot congress, a resolution was inlroduced early in the session in both liouses, that live additional clerks be employed in each house, which resolution w'as adopted; so that in each house at Ihe legislature, one composed of twelve members and the other composed of twenty-four, they had the same number of clerks that \\i' have in I his convention of seventy-live members. The people of the Territory of Montana did not complahi that that was an unreasonable number ol clerks. Here is an unwieluy body of seventy live men. A large amount ol clerical work is to be done, and Iroiii day to day as wa progress that clerical work w'lll be increased. 11 seems to me that this resolution is certainly uncalled for, thai il nulicates a disposition not in harmony with tne sentiiiienis of this convention. 1 have no hesitation in saying that 1 beiievt; one of tlu! first things that tlie legislature of Ihe slate of .Montana will do, when it has convened, is to pass a resolution or a law- appropriating sullicieni inone\ to pay these extra attaches. We have here, it is Irue, three [tages more Ihaii we had m either house of the legislature; with that exception the number of atlaches of this convention is identical with Ihe number of attaches of one house of the last legislature. INow why is it that our friend from Park has become so parsimonious as to m Innate by resolution or otherwise that we do not need these clerks or employes in a cou\'entioii like this, when his own people last winter saw fit and deemed il necessary to use as many at- taches in each house of the legislature. 1 am certainly opposed to tlie resolution. I do not believe it is the sense of this convention. 1 do not believe tliat it is a parly measure; 1 do not believe it ought to be looked upon m that way. But I cerlanily am opposed to anylliing in the nature ol such a resolution, and 1 believe the time will come within ten days, when we will find that it is absolutely impossible to get along with the number of clerks Ihat we havi- now: that it will be necessary to employ other clerks and perhaps stenographers, in order that tliis convention will not last all summer. 1 certainly hope the resolution will nol prevail. Mr. Hobinson, of JJeer Lodge: .Mr. President, my views upon this proposition liave been expressed to this eonvenlion herelofore. loo thor- oughly to require any reiteration, but 1 certainly stand in and (>iidorse the proposition of the author of tins resolution, for the reason that when 1 look around me, and see what these pages and clerks are doing, and what is required of them, 1 see Ihe entire utter uselessness of them. I do not see any use for retaining Ihem. It is wholly immaterial lo me as a member of this convention what the last legislature ilid or did nol do, that is no guide for us; they may have been a Incly liod.v of men- requiring a dozen additional clerks and pages; but we can see — from the effect upon this convention, we can see its requirements, and we can see Ihat no more pages are required than Ihese two boys that we have ti.ere. V\'e can see too well Ihat these extra clerks are not em|ilo\ed. I'liey are drones; they are doing nolhiiig worth speaking (d', if anything at all. Then irrespective (d wliat tlie last legislative assembly did or did not do we can see as a practical problem that we ha\e no use for Iheso suiiernumeraries. Therefore, .Mr. Presideiil. I am in faxor id Ihe motion prevailing. .Mr. .Mc.-Vdow. of Fergus: .Mr. I'residi'iil. it seems lo me that this convention has rather got into a penurious and parsimonious mood. I do not see any necessity why this convention should lake up so miieli time in trying lo cut down the wages of a few pages and clerks. .\ow' 1 coNsiirr I'loNAi. i.o.w i;m'I().\ lastt ;;) think it IS iii'co.sai'y. il \vi' want to gi't to work ami do niir duty, tliat Itiesi' pagi'S and clerks will be required to wail upon iliis convention. lliKS I'linventioii inect here, and they refer resolutions alter resolutions that are olfered, to committees that are appointed. Ihese committees are composed ol intelligent gentlemen, and are supposed to take care of their part of what it is intended they shall do; but these resolutions are shoved in upon them, instructing them and suggesting to them to do such and such a thing. .Now if f understand the business of this convention, we expect to go into committee ot the whole, and act upon the reports ol these committees, and sir. if il is necessary, and these gentlemen want lo make their amendmeiils. then is the proper time to put in the amend mollis and have them tliscussed. All these resolutions that are thrown m here have to be printed. And, while 1 am in sympathy with the gentleman Irom J-'ergus in regard to his resolution, and believe it is right, at the proper time that can be put in as an amendment and we can get throuj;h with this work, and this J^iJO.tXH) will pay for the services of the clerks; but if It should go beyond that, if they are afraid that the people of Montana will not pay any part of this extravagance as they call it. let the members of this convention chip in a few dollars and settle this wholi> matter. If we go on as we should do, and dt) our work, these attaches will certainly be employed, and 1 would now like to see us get down lo work If possible, and attend to our work, and 1 think we will have no trouble about money. Air. Katon, of Park: 1 would simply like to ask one question of the gentlemen who have spoken in opposition to this resolution. 1 would irkc to appeal to the good sense of this conxention. and ask them what possible use this body has for an assistant sergeant at arms. I cannot conceive of any possible function that that officer has been called upon to perforin since this convention met. .Now the question of extravagance and the question of parsimony and this, that and the other does not pertain to this question. II is simply a practical question of what we need and 1 believe we are perfectly competent to decide what officers we need without reference to the respective bodies of the legislature, or what they did or did not have. 1 think that our own knowledge is sufficient. With refer- ence to the other questions which w^ere indirectly touched upon. 1 do not propose to enter upon them. It is certainly beneath my dignity at least 10 follow up that particular line of argument. The question at issue is just exactly what clerks we need for the actual transaction of business liere. nothing more, nothing less. Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: iMr. President, if there is any time in the world when we will need the extra assistance which has been pro- vided here, the time is certainly approaching if it has not already arrived. 11 is fair to say that during the last week which was the first week ol this convention, the business of this convention has been in such a condi- tion as that perhaps this assistance was not needed, but at this tmie the committees have under consideration certain business which has been presented to this convention and they are each at work making reports: and the time is rapidly approaching when the convention will be m session perhaps from four to six or eight hours per day for the consideration of the general business of the convention which will embrace every proposition submitted to this convention and then it will be that the pages which have been authorized by the rules of this convention, will ceitainly be needed for the aid and assistance of members who will not be as they now are m the different committee rooms considering these propositions: bul who will be in this convention where their services and attention will he required. .\nd I undertake to say to the gentleman from Park, that Ihe assistant sergeant at arms will perhaps have enough employment in this convention from this time on to the day of its ad.journment. T'he assistant sergeant at arms may be sent into the city or elsewhere at the call of the house. It will be necessary at least that the assistant sergeant at arms shall be at the door and that his services will be required in the performance of such other duties as will necessarily be required by this convention. I do not believe, .Mr. President, that the people of this terri- tory or of the proposed state of Montana would expect that seventy-five members who have come here to serve their constituents in the great work of making this constitution should be compelled to stay here without 7i i'i{it(;i;i;i)i.\(:s aM) i)i;r..vrE!j till! iR'L'L'ssary aid ami assistancr (il llirsc riiipluyu^. ilii'v i-aiin' lici'c (jiice willingly upon the call ol the Icgislalivc ass(>inljly, and lor lour wecRs tlit-y perlorineiJ LIipsc duties that arc now di'volving upon tins convenlion wiUiout a dollar of coinpfMisalioii. I think the people of this terriloi'v are quite content that that sort ot serMc.e shall never he rendered without the necessary aid and tlie necessary compensation lor that itui-pose. 1 be- lieve, sir, that this assistance is necessary and 1 believe llial the tune has now arrived, when troni now on it will he necessary to have here every particle of the assistanci^ which we have provided tor by Ihe resolu- tion of this convention, and for Ihal, reason, sir, 1 am oi)iii)sed to the motion of the gentleman from I'ark, 'I'he President then put the ipiestion, and a division benig called lor by Mr. l^aton, the chair announced that there were 14 voting in the affirma- tive, and 41 111 the negative, and tlie motion was declared lost. .Mr. (Jollins, of Cascade: I move that the convention adjourn. The motion was seconded, was declared carried, and the convention slood adjourned until Wednesday, July 17th, IHJSD. at 10 o'clock A. .M. ADJOLK.NEU. li:\TU DAY. Wednesda.N . July ITHi, 1889. 'i'he convention called to order by the President at 10 A. M. The clerk called the roll. The chaplain offered prayer. The clerk r(>ad tlie journal of Ihe previous day. Mr. tiicknian, of .Madison: Mr. President, I have a petition from the citizens of Madison County, winch I would like to liave referred to the committee on Suffrage. Tlie President: The memorial offered by the gentleman from .Madison will now be read. 'I'he clerk read as follows: '"I'o the Honorable Members of the (7onslitutional Coineiition of .Mon- tana. We, the undersigned, ailiilt citizens of Montana desiring that our women citizens may enjoy all the privileges of statehood that our men will, would respectfully pray and petition your honorable body to incor- porate in the slate constitution about to be formed an equal suffrage provision. (Signed' EinviiN CUULEV, and 30 others." The President: If there be no objection this memorial will be received and referred to the committee on Suffrage. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow, sent up report of the .Judiciary committee. The President: The report of the chairman of lln' .ludiciary com- nntlee is presented and will be read by the clerk. The clerk read as follows: "Report of the Judiciary I'ommittee on resolution iN'o. 1(5. Mr. President. Ihe judiciary committee to whom was referred resolution No. 10, relating to tlie aiquunlment of special deputies, iletectives, etc., report Uiat they haxc consideiTd the same and liei'ewdh re- port il back adversely, and r(>conimend ttiat it be not iiicurporated iii the constitution, all of which is respeclfully submitted. (Signed) \V. W. f)l.\OA, Chairman." Mr. Browne, of Choleau, sent up Ihe following report which was read by the clerk: "Mr. President, your committee to whom was referred resolution i\o. 18 introduced by .Mr. liuford. report that they have had the same under consideration and respectfully return same with the recominendalion that it do not pass. (Signed' DAVID (i. HIUiW.NK, Cliaiiiiian. ' Mr. Hickards, of Silxcr How: I wish to ask wtial coniiniltci' this is, Mr. President? The President: The cumiiiillee on cily, town and cnnnlN- orgaiuzatioiis. CONSTITI TKiNAL (.( ).\Vi:.\riO.\ 1889 75 The clerk read a report from llie same committee as follows: ".Mr. President, your committee, to whom was referi-ed resolution .No. 9 intro- duced by .Mr. l\ennedy, heg leave to report that they have had the same under consideration, and respectfully return the igned IJ.Wll) (i. BHUW .\K, Chairman, Committee on county, town and city organization." Mr, Callaway, of .Madison, sent up the following report which was read by the clerk: "".Mr. President, your committee on boundaries, public lands and homestead exemptions, beg leave to report and respectfully recommend that the following provisions be incorporated in and embrace a part of the constitution. Article 1 — Boundaries. Section 1. The boundaries and jurisdiction of the State of .Montana .-hall be as follows, to-wit: Commencing at a point formed by the inter- section of the 27th degree of longitude west from \\ ashington with the lortv-fiftli degree of north latitude: thence due west on the forty-lifth degree of latitude to a point formed by its intersection with the tliirly- lourth degree of longitude -w-est from \\ ashington: thence due south, along the thirty-fourth degree of longitude, to a point formed by its intersection with the" crest of the ttocky Mountains: thence following the crest of the Udcky Mountains northward till Us intersection with the Bitter Root mountains; thence northward along the crest of the Bitter Root moun- tains to Its intersection with the thirty-ninth degree of tongitude west of Washington: thence along the thirty-nmth degree of longitude northward to the boundary line of the British Possessions: thence eastward along that boundary line of the i!7th degree of longitude west from Washington; I hence southward along the 27th degree of longitude, to the place of beginning. The President: This report will be referred to the printing com- mittee, and ordered to be printed if there be no objection and placed on lile. Mr. Rotwitt, of Meagher, sent up the following report which was read by the clerk: "".Mr. President, your committee on rights of suffrage, and t|ualifications to hold office having had such subject under consideration, respectfully submit and recommend its adoption." The President: This report will take the usual course and be ordered printed if there be no objection. Mr. Callaway sent up a further report which was read by the clerk a» follows: ""Mr. President, your committee on boundaries, public lands and homestead exemptions, to lihom was referred resolution .No, 8 intro- duced by -Mr. l^uce, beg leave to report that they have had the same under consideration, and respectfully recommend that the same in sub- stance and in due form be incorporated as a provision in the constitution. (Signed) CALLA\\A\, Chairman." The President: This report will take the usual course if there be no objection. .Mr. Ivohrs, of Deer Lodge, sent up the following report which was read by the clerk: "Report of committee -No. 1(3. We, your committee on agriculture, manufactures, commerce and immigration, beg leave to submit the following report. We have itiligently inquired into the various means and ways which may have a tendency toproniotethe different interests above named, and are of the opinicni that there should be established a bureau for statistics on agriculture, manufacture and commerce to which may be added the branch of labor and we herewith recommend the fol- lowing sections to be adopted in a separate article of our constitution: Section I. A bureau of agriculture, manufacture and commerce shall be established to be located at the capital of the State, which shall be under the management of a commissioner who shall be appointed by the governor and conlirmed by a majority of the senate and hold his office for the term of four years from the day of confirmation by the Senate. Section 2. The commissioner of agriculture, manufactures and com- merce shall perform all such duties and receive such compensation as may be prescribed by law. and it shall be the duty of the legislative as- 7C IMtOCKKDI.NGS A.\L) J)EBAJKS bunibly at its first session to prescnlje sucli duties and coinpensalion and to pass suL'li laws as may l)e iieecssary lor the tioveninient, regulation and support of said Ijuroau. (Signed C. kOHH8, Chairman.' the Presideiil : llus rcjiort will be releired to ihe printing com- mittee to be printed. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: Air. President. I otter the following resolution. The l^resident: The resolution ottered liy Ihe geiitleman from Gallatin will he reail hy the clerk. I'lie clerk read as follows: ■'KesolMMl, thai the legislative assembly .•ihall have the power to limit by law the nuinher of retail dealers in liquors, wines, ales and beer, and any and all other into.xicating liquors or drinks in the counties, cities and towns of the ytate, in proportion to the number of inliabilants of such counties, cities and towns, respectively, and to prescribe the qualifications of persons who may so retail the same therein, and to prescribe all rules and regxitations for the sale thereof." The President: The genlleinan oflering this resolution asks tliat it be referred to committee .No. 7. It tliere he no objection, it will be so re- I erred. The clerk read ttie following resolution, also offered by .Mr. l^uce, "Hesolved that gambling of any kind whatever shall not be deemed a legitimate trade, occupation, profession or business, and may be prohib- ited by appropriate legislation." The President: The gentleman also requests that this resolution be referred to committee Ao. 7. If there be no objection it will be so referred. Mr. Browne, of Choleau, ottered the following resolution, which was read by the clerk as follows: "Resolved that the legislative assembly of the state of Montana shall have no power to reduce or increasi; the fees or salaries of county or state officers during the terms of office for which they are elected." The t-'resident: if there be no objection, tlus will be referred to com- mittee .No. 10 on city, county and town organizations. Mr. ilammond, of Jefferson, offered the following proposition wtiich was also read by the clerk as follows: "Proposition relating to Gamblmg. Article — , Section — . INo games of cards, dice, billiards, pool or any form of gambling whatsoever shall be permitted or allowed to be carried on m any building or room where intoxicating liquors are sold, or exposed for sale." The President: If ttiere be no objection, this proposition will be referred to committee on miscellaneous provisions. Mr. Loud, of Uuster, sent up the following resolution which was read by the clerk as follows: "Corporations other than municipal. Kesolved that the Governor shall upon his qualifying and entering upon the duties ot his office under this constitution, appoint by and with the approval of Ihe Senate, a Board of Kailroad Commissioners, to consist of three mem- bers whose compensation and duties shall be as prescribed by law." The President: If there be no objection, this resolution will be re- ferred to committee No. 12. The clerk read the following which was also offereii by .Mr. i-oiid; "Corporations other than municipal. Hesohed that no railroad, express, or other transportation company, doing business in the state of Montana, shall pool or enter into any arrangement or agreement witli any other similar corporation or company whereby the rates and charges for the transportation of passengers oi' freight by such companies or corporations, stiail be removed from natural competition, and the legislature is required to pass laws for the enforcement of this prohibition." The President: If there be no objection, tliis resolution will be re- ferred to committee No. 12. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: Mr. President, I believe there was no dispo- sition made the other day of resolution, which I think was .No. 7. iMqating to the employment and compensation of tln^ sleiiograiitier. and 1 move you that that resolution be now referred to a special committee of seven to be appointed by the chair. 'I'lie motion was seconded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENllON 1889 77 The President: It is moved and seconded that resolution No. 7, ottered by tlie gentleman from Cascade uMr. Collins , be referred to a special com- mittee of seven to ho appointed hy the chair. The chair put the question, and the same was declared carried. The clerk read the following communication: "Helena. .Montana. July l(5th, 1889. Hon. W . .V. Clark. President. Constitutional Convention. Helena. .Montana. Dear Sir: 1 herewith tender my immediate resignation as Assistant Chief Clerk of the Constitutional Conxention of .Montana. Respectful ly. (Signed WILLIAM TA\LOH." The President: If there be no objection, this resignation will be accepted. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention concerning the filling of this office. -Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 think. .Mr. President, the position should be filled. 1 think that we have arrived at that stage m the convention when we should have a much larger force than we have now, so as to enable the convention to transact its business and get home. This thing of economy that has been preached here, so far as the force of clerks is concerned is the sheerest nonsense in the world. 1 am in favor of in- creasing the force here, to a sufficient extent to enable the convention to go on and complete its work with the utmost dispatch consistent with the due order which should attend our deliberations. 1 move that the position be filled forthwith. The motion was seconded. The chair put the motion and the same was declared duly carried. I'he President: Are there anv nominations for the office of Assistant Clerk? Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, there is a lady in Helena, who is looking for a position of that kind and who came before this convention before, for a position as clerk, but she had another position offered her and withdrew her application before this convention. I will place her name in nomination. She is a good stenographer, and I think will make a good .Assistant Clerk. I nominate for that office .Miss Jennie Merriman. The motion w-as seconded. .Mr. Bickford. of .Missoula: I move that the nominations be closed. The President: .\s many as are in favor of electing .Miss Merriman to the office of .\ssistant Clerk, will say aye and those opposed, no. Ihe motion was carried and .Miss .Merriman was declared elected to fill the position of Assistant Clerk. .Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: Mr. President. I move you that we now go inio committee of the whole. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President. I hope we may be allowed cne day more to go on and finish our committee work. I am satisfied that if the committees are allowed one flay more, they will be ready to report tomorrow, and it seems to me that if we break in here by going into committee of the whole, it is really interlenng with and obstructing the progress of the convention and its work, and 1 do hope that we may be allow-ed one day more in which to go on and complete our work in the different committees. After that I shall not interpose any objection to going into committee of the whole. The chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer (.Mr. .Middleton'. -Mr. Burleigh called for a division, and the rhair announced the motion lost. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: T mo\e that the convention do now adjourn until tomorrow' morning, and that the time be fixed at 9 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The President: The motion is that the time to which the convention shall adjourn, shall be fixed at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. 78 l'U()(:EKI)l.\(iS AM) liEl'.AIKS Mr. \\ arrnn, ol' Silxcr Bow: Air. Cliairiiiaii, I liave Ijeoii rGqui'stod to make an application lor Mr. H. B. Blackwi'il, Socretary of the -Vmerican Woman's Sullrafe^e .\ssociation. lor tln' privilege ol' a'tldi'os.sing llie con- vention. I'lie I'l-esidenl : If the genlleman Iroin Silver Bow will allow me, the motion Ls not to adjourn, hut to lix the time to which the convention .shall adjourn. Mr. Joy, of Park: Mr. f^resident, 1 would like to make an amendment to the motion of the gentleman from Madison (.Mr. Callaway: that we adjourn to meet at 2 o'clock this afternoon. The motion was seconded. I'he President: It is moved and seconded Ihat the motion of the i-'cntleman from Madison be amended and that the convention ■ take a recess until 2 o'clock this afternoon. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, it seems to me that if we are to go into committee of the whole, it is very nniiortanl that the committees should he prepared for the work of this convention. It seems to me to be much better to adjourn regularly from day to day unlil this business comes before the committee of the whole: then, if it is necessary lo have an afternoon session, we can have it. .\t present 1 think It is to the interest of the convention not to have an afternoon session; it would interfere with the work of the committees. The chair' then put the motion and the same was declared lost. The President: The question is now upon the original motion that the hour be fixed at t> o'clock tomorrow morning. The chair put Ihe motion to fix the hour for adjournment at 9 o'clock the following morning, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: 1 move, Mr. President, if it be in order that on the conclusion of the call of the order of business, Mr. hlenry B. Blackwell, Secretary of the American \\ (imans Suffrage ,\ssociatiiin, be invited to address the convention. Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow, seconded the motion. The President: It is moved and seconded that after the order of business is exhausted, that the Hon. Henry B. Blackwell of .Massachusetts, bo requested to addTess the convention. Mr. Katon: 1 desire to offer an amendment to the motion. The President: The gentleman from Park offers an amendment to the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, that the Hon. Henry B. IMackwell be inviled to deliver an address in this hall at 8 P. M., today. The motion was seconded. Mr. Kobmson: Mr. President, 1 move to lay the motion and the amend- ment on the table. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question and there being a call for the Ayes and Noes, the chair announced that the vote stood as follows: Ayes: Burns (Edward', Craven, Gillette, Graves, Hartinan, Haskell, Hatch, Hershfield, Joy, Joyce, Kennedy, Kohrs. Luce, .Marion, .Mayger, Mitchell, Muth, 1-tobinson, Hotwitt, Schmidt, Watson, Whitehill, Winston, Witter— 24. INoes: Aiken, Bickford, Brazleton, Breen, Browne, Huloid, Bollard, Burleigh, Burns {A. \f\), Burns (A. J.), (lallaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad. Cooper, Courtney. Dixon. Durlee. Dyer, ilaton, fields, Gibson. Goddard. Hammond, Hickman, Hobson. Hogan. Ka- nouse, Knippenberg, Knowles, Loud, .Maginnis, Alarshall, .Middleton. .Myers. Parberry, flainsdell. Heed, Hickards, Sargent, Stapleton, Toole, Warren, Webster, Mr. President — 48. The President: The question now recurs u|)on the amendmeid offered by the gentleman from Park. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: In connection with that matter, I will state that it was the intention of Mr. Blackwell lo leave at 3:15 this after- noon for Washington Terrilory: he will only detain the convention for 20 or 30 minutes. He will be brief in his remarks, and I think it is a matter we should hear, instead of having the lecture delivered In people this evening, who will probably lake but little interest in it. and who are not members of the convention. If llns amendinenl carries, of course .Mr. Blackwell will be unable to speak. CONSTITl riONAI, (.().\\i;.\IMi.\ ISSD 79 .Mr. Katoii, of I'ark; Air. I'ri'.sii.ii'iil, I liavi' no ilesire to sofiii lacking lix coiii'tt'sy on lliis or otlu'r similar propositions: but it seems to me it' this convention is unable to spare (he time necessary to listen to a petition trom one of our citizens, as was seemingly the case yesterday, when a pelitio4i was referred to a commiltee withoul having been fully read, that following thai precedent, we can spare no lime — none of our valuable time — for the purpose asked, and therefore I am opposed to this resolution. .Mr. Hobnison, ot Dei'r Lodge: -Mr. I'ri'sKiciii, tlii' objection that 1 enter- tain to a proposition of this character is Ifial 1 am opposed to this conven- tion even dignifying the applications of men from outside. We do not want such propositions as this or any olher. We are perfectly capable of managing our own affairs here without these people coming from the outside and wanting to intrude themselves upon our attention. 1 want to treat them the same way thai this convention treated those Chicago bankers the other day, and show them that we can take care of our own aflairs. We can take care of our own affairs without them, and we have something else to do. Ovir time is all employed withoul such interference from them, and for that reason, Mr. I'resident, I moved to lay the whole proceeding on the table. I am opposed to dignifying these applications even with the respectful vote of the convention. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: 1 wish only to say a few words. I'here are men undoubtedly in this convention, as there are everywhere, that are afraid that they will get some light from the outside: they are afraid that some information will come to them from some source. iNow there are some people who are very selfish in this respect about Montana, and about her productions and her people and it is a wonder to me that Ihey have read any literature from any other counlry than that which is published m .Montana. .Now in regard to this question of Woman Suffrage. It is a question that has a respectable following m the east: men of prom- inence aiiiJ influence all over the country are inlerested m this subject, and Mr. HUickwell is a man of character and standing, a man that has been tiefore the public on this question for 'M years or more, and if he has anything to say upon this question, let us hear it. It Is not necessary we should adopt his views. It is not necessary that the distinguished gentle- man from Deer Lodge should even listen to them; we can excuse him from this convention if he does not wish to hear them. But there are some here that would like to hear what is to be said upon this question. If there is any new light to come from any source, let us arise and meet it. Let us not by a sneer or by narrowness, or by wrapping ourselves up in the opinion that .Montana knows everything she needs to know, and close the door to everything that can come from the outside. 1 am in favor of hearing what the genlleman has to say on this subject. .Mr. W liitehill, of Deer Lodge: I am a little surprised at the insinuation of Judge l\nowles. that the members of this convention do not wish to hear anything on this subject. That was not the point. A few days ago a noted temperance lecturer came to this town, and he kindly invited this convention to go to a public place and hear him. .Many of the mem- bers accepted that invitation. .\ow if we are to listen upon this question, and invite lecturers before this convention. 1 am certain there are other niterests here, besides woman sfiffrage, and if we invite gentlemen here to lecture to us upon that subject, the people who are interested in our mines — 1 understand that question will come up — there are gentlemen, eloquent speakers in this I'erntory who would like to be here, and who are not niembers of this convention: and in regard to corporations, railroad cor- porations. If we start this business by inviting people who are interested in what this convention does, we will spend our whole time in listening to gentlemen who desire the privilege of addressing this convention. Aow If this gentleman desires to address this convention, let him appoint a time and place m this city, where all the members can go and not take the time of the convention in listening to him. I'hen there is the question of the precedent it establishes. 'I'he gentleman has no more right to ask our tune than any other one who is interested in the passage of any ot the propositions which come before this convention, and for that reason, i am opposed to this motion. If he is invited, 1 shall be glad to hear him, toi- I am pleased to confess, that while 1 am not much taken with this 80 I'liOCKKItlNiiS AM) liKHA I KS principle ol woman sultrage, .sdll 1 would like to hoar an able exponent; but 1 object to his taking up our time here ui asknig us to mvite hiin liere, and 1 will go as 1 say, if he will appoint a place on the outside. The chair then stated the motion. The ayes and noes were called lor. -Mr. Uonrad, of CJhoteau, asked if it was compulsory upon I he niemher.«; to be present at 8 o'clock in the evening, when Mr. Blackstone would address the convention, and the chair mformed the convention that the attendance was not necessarily compulsory. I'he ayes and noes being called, the chair announced that theri; were 55 voting in the affirmative and 13 voting in the negative. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickford, Brazleton, Breen, Browne. Bufoid, Bullard. Burleigh, Burns (A. F.), Burns (A. J.), Burns fEdwaid), Callaway. Card- well, Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Dixon, Our- iee, Dyer, Katon, J-'ields, Gillette, Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Heishfield, Hickman. Hobson, Hogan, Joyes, Kanouse, Knippenberg, Knowles, Kohrs. l^oud. Luce. Maginnis, Marshall, Mayger, Middleton, Muth, Myers, Parberry, Hamsdell, Heek. Hickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Webster, Witter, Mr. J^resident— 56. rjoes: Craven, Cauby. Hartman, Joy, Kennedy. Mitchell. Marion. lioliin- son, Holwilt, Wmston, NVhilptiitt. Watson, Warren — 13. Absent: Gibson, GaNlord, Haskell, Hatch, McAdow, J. H. Toole. The chair then announced the motion earned, and the Honorable Henry B. Blackwell was thereby invited to address the members of the convention at 8 'o'clock in the evening. The President then announced that he was in receipt of a note from Mr. Blackwell, saying that he would accept the invitation for 8 o'clock the same evening. Mr. Katon, of Park, suggested that the galleries should be thrown open to the public in the evening. Mr. Collins, of Cascade, suggested tliat llic floor of the house be open as well as the galleries. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: This is the action of the convention, and it is the action of the convention as a body. This hall is for the purpose of the deliberations of this convention, and 1 do not see under the rules of the house, how the privileges of this floor can be extended to outside parlies. Under the rules of the house 1 do not see how it can be without suspending the rules, for they prescribe who shall be entitled to a seat upon the floor of the convention. 11 is the action of the convention and the members will be in the convention assembled as the convention. 11 that IS the case, 1 do not see how the rules can be transgressed by inviting other parties upon the floor. Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: 1 do not think it would be advisable to give the floor of the convention to outsiders. I suppose every member of this convention will be here and in his seat. There is very little room outside of that occupied by the members. 1 beg the pardon of the gentle- man from Deer Lodge. When 1 say that every gentleman will be present, 1 would qualify that by saying that every member except the gentleman Irom J:)eer Lodge will be here. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I move we adjourn. The motion was seconded. The President: There is an invitation here, which the clerk will read with the permission of the convention before the motion to adjourn is put. The clerk then read a communication from Howard .1. l-o\vry, Pho- tograhper. Pittsburg Block, Helena, Montana, inviting the nienihei-s of the convention to call and have their photogrnptis taken, so that tlii' photo- grapher might arrange them in groups for the imrpose of pi'i'serving as an historical memento of the occasion, |)liiilograi)hs of the dillerent mem- bers. The chair then put the question on Ihe motion to adjourn, and tlie same was declared carried. 'J'he following is the address of llir Hon. Himiiv B. Blackwell, de- livered before the members of the constitui lonal convention on \\ cdnesday evening. July 17th. 1889. at 8 o'clock. Mr. President, and Gentlemen of llie Convention: CONSTITUTIONAL (.OiWKNTlOiN 1889 81 1 bhouki not presume to be liere to address you upon tliis import- ant question, it' 1 were not commissioned to do so by ttie American Wo- man's Sult'raye Association, ot wim-h 1 am tieuretary: nor would llic Asso- ciation have ciinimissioned me to do so. if it liad not been in their judgineiil, a period of unusual and critical importance, not only to the cause which I am here to advocate, but to the country to which we all belong. 11 is a verv impressive and a very novel spectacle to see a great terri- tory, extending almost from the .Mississippi Hiver to the I'acific Coast, mov- ing with one common purpose from territorial conditions into those of state- liood: and we feel in the east that that change is one of the very greatest social and political importance, destined to have very grave consequences upon the future legislation of this country: and we feel that it is very important that in the organization of these new states, you will not put up those harriers against the growth of public opinion, that in our eastern states have made it almost impossible in many cases for the legislature^ to reflect the public will. J-'or 1 need not remind you gentlemen, that when you organize your state constitution, if you place in that constitution, in the clause upon suffrage the word "male" as a limitation, unless you accompany it with some other provision, you put an almost insuperable barrier against any future step in the direction of equal suffrage for all citizens with- out regard to sex. Those barriers exist in the eastern states because they were organized, many of them, more than 100 years ago. But you have been hitherto free from those barriers, ever since the 'i'erritory of .Mon- tana was organized your legislatures have had the right by the enabl- ing act of congress to extend suffrage at your pleasure to all citizens irrespective of sex. 'iou liave not seen fit to do it, simply because no large body of your citizens has asked for it, and w^e — our association— have never come here to ask for it because we are not desirous of interfering with the institutions of the different states and territories. But when you organize your state, we do desire— we do most deeply desire— that you should feel it possible to take the great step m social and political progress which woman suffrage means, and that you should put into the body of your constitution, a clause reciting that all citizens 21 years of age, of sound mind, not convicted of crime, shall have the right of suffrage irrespective of sex. But if, gentlemen, in your judgment, public sentiment is not ripe for this, if in your judgment your constituents an' not at present ready for that change, then we ask you simply to continue in your state constitution, the same political status of the women of •Montana, winch they have occupied ever since you were a territory — in other words — that when you come into the full exercise of your own rights as a sovereign state in this I nion. you shall not accompany that act by putting a barrier that did not before exist, in the way of the in- telligent women of .Montana Territory, if they ever desire and express a general demand for suffrage. I may be told, that if such a desire is expressed, a constitutional amendment may be submitted, and that the people may vote upon it and change it. That in the abstract is true; but practically as you know, gentlemen, without a political party orgahized upon the question, it is almost impossible to obtain the ver- dict of the people, because it is difficult to obtain their attention to a question of this character: and 1 will simply allude to our experience in the territory of Colorado when it became a state in 187(3. It was pro- vided by the constitutional convention of Colorado, that the following leg- islature should submit a constitutional amendment to ttie people, and it was so submitted: and at an expense of several thousand dollars a number of eminent speakers were secured who gave their services and ^isi^ed almost every organized precinct in that state, Vou know it is very much like your own state, largely composed of mining camps, largely composed of large cattle ranches. We held several hundred meetings. .-\t the close of every meeting we took a vote, and after having heard the arguments and listening to the reasons, the vote was in every case almost unanimous for woman suffrage, and I was fold by no less a gentleman than .Mr. Allen, w-ho is talked of so much in the Ter- ritorv of .North Dakota as likely to be their first Governor, that he then' lived in Colorado, and he said that the politicians generally expected it would be carried: but unfortunately the men who were opposed to it, did not attend the meetings. Kvery man who beat his wife, every man who habituallv got drunk, every man who didn't know his right hand from his left voted solidly against it; and enough conservative men. who «-' I'liOCKKDI.NdS AM) |ii:i; \ IKS lielieve llial overylliiiig thai is, is nj;!!!, and llial I'vcrylliiiit; "''w is wruii^-. tliey volod witli them. Ihi' matter liail iiut, liail a lair cnnsiileraliiMi be- fore the people, and llie result wa.s, tliat upon a li;;lil \ole. ji wa.s voted down. iN'ow llie point is this: your legislature will lie an mlelliKent tjody of men, selected ijy the people lor ttie purpose of eonsiderin;.' puljliu (jueslions, paid for then- tune to eome liere, and consider sucli (juestions as this, and If you put into your constitution a provision emiiowering vour legislature hereafter at its di.scretion lo extend suffrage to all citizens 21 years of age, of sound inind, not convicted of crime, without regard lo sex, this subject will be considered from time to time, and Itie leg- islature will consult with its constilutents. The question may at any time lie made an issue in the jjolidcs of your state, and when "public senti- ment is ripe for the change, the legislature is empowered lo grant it — just as evei'y territorial legislature that ever met in Montana has had that same power. And we ask thai while you organize your constitution 111 accordance with the supposed public sentimenl of the day, that you do give to the legislature this harmless, this beneficient power to "ex- tend suffrage hereafter to other classes of our population which may in the course of social and political development be needed for tlie best interests of the state and Nation. And having now stated the very simple and conservative proposition which I am- here tonight to advocate, in order to strengthen the prob- ability in your minds that sucti a change may be demanded at no dis- tant day, I desire you to lay aside preconceived prejudice, if you have it, and look at this matter of woman suffrage in the light of simply common sense. Gentlemen, what is a vote? A vote is an intelligent expression of a political opinion upon questions of common interest, to Ihe whole people — women no less than men — I say it is the expression of an opin- i(:n, and your own convention is assembled tonight under an enabling act of congress which provides that you shall form a constitution nol lepugnant to the princiiiles of the declaration of independence. Well gentlemen, I think I can show you that upon the principles of the declara- tion of independence, a woman has Ihe same right to vote as a man. let me simply call your attention to the fact that this declaration of independence begins thus: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator by certain inalien- able rights, among which are life, liberty and Ihe pursuit of happiness." "Then" said our fathers "to secure these rights" — the rights of life, lib- erty and the pursuit of happiness. — "governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." .Now- IS there a man on this floor or a man in this territory, who will doubt or deny that a woman has the same right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness as a man. Why everybody will admit it. "But" said our fathers "to secure these righls" — the rights of women equally with the rights of men — "governments are instituted deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." VN'omen are governed, and the only form of consent known in the republic is Ihe ballot. .\nd so long as one halt of our citizens, or rather 1 should say her(> one thinl of your citizens, for [ am told that Ihe men exceed the women two to one — so long as one third of your citizens are denied by the conslilution and laws, the right of consent, the iirinciples of the declaralion of in- deijendence are violated, so far as the women are, concerned. I may be told that our fathers did not mean that because they did nol put the liallot in the hands of women. Ves, bul they denied the right to others besides women. Gentlemen, some of our conservative men, who are nol willing that you should even consider this question — some of our conserva- tive friends seem to forget the fact that the institutions under which you are living did not exist 100 years ago: that the great inajorily of the men who vote today in .Montana were not allowed to vole 100 years ago. Men seem to forget that political society is progressive and that Ihe thoughts of men wid(>n with Ihe progress of years. 1 remind you that little more than 100 years ago this country was a monarchy, governed by King George and llie British I'arliamenI beyond the sea. and when oiir fathers took up Ihe standard of rebellion against the Brilisli go\-iMn- ment, and put forward those prmciph^s. they were regarded by the people of that day. as more dangerous I ban the pi'inciple for which I am here tonight. Why, gentlemen, lonk al Ihe hislory of niankmd: Everywhere, in all ages, Ihe eaMiest liii-m nl go\crninenl is a despotism. Wlial is a despotism? II is a ]iolituMl society, where iml\- one man or CONSITIT TKl.XAL t.O.N VK.NIIo.N l,s.S'.i 83 as It SDniolinics liappcns one woman, is tlio sole source oT political power, and all that the body ol' men and women have to do is to obey. Tliat is Uie be^-amnifr. but it is "better than barbarism, because any form of govern- ment is better than none. It is ordec, and order is heavens first law; ami so even despotism is better than barbarism, winch is a state of war where every man's hand is against his neighbor. And so political progress begins and very soon it is found to be inexpedient and unwholesome to trust the riolilical power in the hands of one man; that he violates the risht of the people and robs them, and so a new movement begins, and the second step has always been to change the despotism — the one man power — for the aristocracy of birlh. that is, a political power where cer- tain great and noble families alone e.xercise political power. And (hes(! families became educated and intelligent, and they serve as a counter- poise to the excesses of the despot. And thus political power gradually widens. Commerce begins and manufactures. A new step is taken, a greal many rich men demand admission and they are brought in in short and the aristocracy of birth gives place to the aristocracy of wealth — the moneyed power. .Now, gentlemen, when I his country was discovered, the highest form of political progress that tlie world had ever reached was the aristocracy of birtb and wealth, and when the great monarchies of iTance and Spain and Kngland took possession of this continent and inidertook to parcel it out. it was on the understanding that the same aristocratic governments should exist here as in Europe; but it was so far off they could not reach it and very rapidly the land passed into I he hands of the men who tilled it, and for the first time in history, the great mass of farmers were tlie owners of the farms they cultivated; and tliese men in their turn demanded suffrage: they demanded it of the British government, and when it was denied them they took up arms ill rebellion; and w'hen they had carried that contest to a successful issue, they like us were the creatures of habit, and although they had put forward that wonderful declaration of independence, when they" came to apply those principles, they didn't half apply them in the case of men, to say nothing of women; for not only did they want an entire race of slaves; but when they organized their state governments after the war ended, they limiled the suffrage to those only who possessed a certain amount of property. 'I'hey allowed no man to vote, unless he owned a certain amount of real estate; so that it is literally true, that when file war of the rebellion ended, the majority of the men by whose blood and toil and sacrifice, the independence of this country had been achieved, found themselves as utterly shut out of the government as they had been under King George. But scarcely had the guns of the rebellion ceased to sound, when the old Democratic party under the leadership of Thomas Jefferson demanded suffrage for poor white men as the natural right of the citizen under the declaration of independence. They said a man may be poor, but honest and intelligent and industrious; he has a right to the ballot and he needs it more than the rich man, for his protection. The Federal party which had carried the war of independence to a successful conclusion, intrenched in power in state and nation resisted the demand. They said no, "Suffrage is for gentlemen, for scholars, for college graduates: the hard handed sons of toil have no right to the ballot." and so the battle raged. Uld Benjamin I^'ranklin, a born democrat, took a most hearty interest in the repeal of the property qualifications lor voting. Said l-"ranklin. "In my town in Pennsylvania a man owned a jackass worth ^iO pounds, and the man voted; but one day the jackass died, and the man was not allowed to vote. Who. then, is it that votes in Pennsylvania, the man or the jackass?" (Laugliter and applause A fine sentiment of justice, to which we appeal, gentlemen, tonight in behalf of equal suffrage for women, rallied to the support of the Democratic parly in its war against property qualifications. State after state swept them away, so that when the war of the slaveholders rebellion broke out in 18t)l only two states retained them, the state of South Carolina and the state of Rhode Island: and 1 am proud and glad to say that last year the state of Rhode Island wiiied them out, and today there is not a state I'rom ocean to ocean that retains the property qualification. Wow what was the result of that to the country.' i\o sooner was it known in Europe that any American — the poor man — has the same political rights as the rich man. tlian that great stream of immigration set in, which in about 100 years has transformed, a few feeble agricultural colonies on the Atlantic seaboard into a greal continental nation, with ils railroads, telegraphs. 8i J'HOCKKDLNGS AM) DKHATKS cloclrip lights. 50,U(K),(KIO ol' Irt'e iiii'ii and hall Iri'o women, living today under tilt' stai's and striiics of this repuljlic, bec-ause the democratic party in 17911 had the sagacity and the justice to extend sullrage to the working men of America. (Applause; But they set up a while mans government. Why.' Because m nearly every state, negroes were held as slaves, and it is impossible m any state or nation, tliat a slave can be a voter, because in law he is the property of his master, and to give him a vote, is only to double his master's vole. And no sooner was tins great step of progress made, then great men m the north and south began to agitate for the einaiicipaliou of the slaves on the ground that slavery w'as contrary to the principles of the declaration of independence and the rights of men. The democialic [larty which had held power for generations, and the whig party wliicn had grown up with the manufacluring interests of the nation sided with the south, and at last as the discussion grew on the south under- took to secede from the union and to organize a slave holders' rebellion — just such a rebellion as the old rebellions of Greece and Rome, which you know- had but a very small class of voters — the great mass of men and women in Greece were slaves — and so they attempted to organize a slave holding confederation. Then the great republican parly came forward; 111 its turn it became champion of political progress. It put down the rebellion, it emancipated the slaves, and then it demanded suffrage for the negro man, upon the very same arguments on winch they had de- manded lor the white man, as thi' natural right of a citizen under the declaralion of independence; and they not only put the ballot in the hands of Htm.dOO emancipaled slaves, not one in a hundred of whom could spell, much less comprehend the word "vote," but they wrote it in the constitu- tion that hereafter no man should be deprived of his ballot on account of race or color or previous condition of servitude. Now, gentlemen, you see we have made three great changes within the century; first we were a monarchy government by King George and the British Parliament; then we became an aristocracy of wealth and an aristocracy of money under the old federal party, then we became an aristocracy of race under the old democratic party, and within the recollection of men in this hall we have become an aristocracy of sex under the Republican party — a nation where every man is a sovereign and every woman a subject: and some people seem to think that we have reached the political millenium, and that all we have to do is to live on the laurels of our ancestors. But 1 am here to say that we have only half applied the principle. Govern- ments are just only when they rest on the consent of the governed. Women are governed. Governments are organized for the protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Women have the riglit to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and therefore either the principle ol the declaration of Independence is false or your government is a despot- ism so far as women citizens are concerned. Mow, gentlemen, 1 do not see how the logic of that can be answered. Kither the principle is wrong or the women have a moral right to vote. I am one of those wtio believe it is always right to do justice. 1 am one of those who believe in the Republican-Democratic principle, of an extended suffrage, and 1 remind you gentlemen in organizing your state constitution, of the words of Tennyson, in his immortal ode upon the Uuke of Wellington, when lie says; "For in all time anil through all human story, the iiath (d' duly is the way to glory." Now if you have the manhood, the enlightenment, the courage to put the full woman suffrage, the full universal suffrage in accordance with the declaration of independence, into the body of your state constitution, I can promise you that within five years you would have in Montana 100,(X)0 of the most progressive, and the most desirable immigrants that America can furnish. (Applause' T'he same interest in the principles of our government tlial has brought me liere. gentlemen, to plead Ihe cause of universal suffrage tonight is uppermost ill llie minds of hundreds of thousands of our easlern i)eople, and is checked and repressed by the conservatism of tliese old constitutions, which It is almosi impossible to change. Now- tlien I say deliberately, il Morilana will pul universal suffrage m its state constitution, you will lia\e IdO.ddO of Ihe hesi immigrants thai New York, the New Knglami and Middle Weslern Slates can furnish: and your fields will smili- under initiation aiKt vour mines will poiw forth si reams of the precious m(>tals, with the hardy handed laborers who will join Iheir interests with yours. Bui. geiillemeii, some people are not quile sure that il is safe to do right; there are plentv of people who want to know it is safe to do justice, and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 K, lor the benelil of these, 1 want to prove to any man or women who lias simply listened to me without prejudice, that woman suffrage means the most "thorough and radical political reform that the world has ever seen: and I just ask you to look at this point, it is admitted among political thinkers that every class that voles makes itself felt in the political governments in the direction of its interests, Us principles and its pecu- liarities, for instance, a certain district in New \ork City sent to tloiigress for many years the tton. John Morrissey. John Mornssey was a gambler and a prize fighter; everybody kmnv it; he was sent to Congress because he was a gambler and prize lighter, to do the bidding of a constituency of men like himself, and who sat I here as the representative of the gamb- lers of America, to see to it thai congress made and enforced no law against gambling. So you see that gamblers if they have votes make themselves felt. When 1 was a young man traveling in the Wabasha Nalli-y upon my business. 1 found horse stealing a fashionable vice, and the farmers of that valiey could not get any justice, for the horse thieves had organized themselves; they elected a judge, and they elected a sheriff, and they packed Ihe jury, ami when an honest farmer caught a rascal in the act of stealing his horse, 9 times out of 10 the sheriff forgot to lock the door and the man escaped without a trial; but if he was brought to trial, the Judge, elected by the voles of horse thieves charged upon some technicality m favor of the prisoner, and the jury packed with horse thieves brought in a verdict of not guilty; until the farmers were com- pelled to organize bands of regulators, and they hung several of the most desperate horse Ihieves, and so put down the fashionable vice of horse stealing. Well now, gentlemen, 1 am not here tonight to advocate that you put into the constitution of .Montana a guarantee that the gamblers and the horse thieves shall vote, for 1 presume you may put in the word "male", and that would cover them all; not one of them but would vole early and oiten. 1 am here to advocate extending suffrage to that great class known as women, and if you want to know what they would do for the government, you must ask yourself in what respect do women differ from men, because today we have a purely masculine government, we have in it all the qualities of men, and they are noble qualities, qualities given by (iod for wise and good purposes as I believe. But, gentlemen, the woman is different from the man. I demand woman suffrage first ot all because women are different from men, and always will be so, and if you want to know just what those feminine qualities are, of which the government will in part partake when women vote, I ask you to look with me for a moment at the qualities in the woman that differ from those in the man. Now it is the glory of womanhood that women are less under the influence of great physical appetite and passion than men; they are more influenced by their convictions, by their sympathies, by their love of their associates. Women are not tempted by the gross vices to which our sex are subject. They are not tempted by the saloon, they are not tempted by the gambling house, nor the worse house, but women are in point of fact different in these respects, for they have an elevating and refining influence, because they are thus exempt in pari by nature from the overpowering temptations which appeal to men. Why. gentle- men, you know Ihe condition of this city of Helena in early -days and every other mining camp; you know the coinlilion of the men of California; you know the story of California and liow their condition was elevated and how men were made belter by the presence of women and that is as true today as it was then. Now, gentlenn-n. in the next place, women are more peaceable than men. 1 know there are qualities m women that tar surpass those in our sex. It is true not only of liie man, but of the whole iuiimated creation. The male animal is Ihe fighting animal; and it is as (rue of the man as of the buffalo. Now when you consider the govern- ment is organized, first of all. not to make men temperate, not to make men honest, but to protect the peace, and the property and the lives ol men from the aggressors, you will see that to keep the peace is the first dutv of the government. \\ e have had already repeated wars with foreign nations. We have had our Presidents assassinated, we have had the most bitter strife of parties, and we have had a civil war that has cost millions of dollars because we have organized our political society on the instincts of the male human being, without bringing with it the power of the female human being. We find in Genesis that God made man in His own image, male and female, and gave them dominion— not the man dominion 80 l'H()(:j!:KI)l.\(iS AM) ItKI'.AlKS nvei' Ihp woman. And .so I mitjrhl go on tlirougli the HUjIo ami show you that in tliR Jewish nation and in the early forms of Christianity women were recognized all through as the equals of man. But 1 won't stop on I hat now. But, genllemen, in the next plaee. women are more temperate tlian men. Aow. 1 have had more than one man say to me since I have lieeu here thai tie would Note lor woman suffrage but he was afraid of pi'iihihilion. Well. 1 lold him his fear was Nery unreasonable, because l)r(ihilMlion was unpopular. I said, I'here is one State in Ihe Union where woman suffrage has a foothold, and there has never been any movement 111 Wyoming for prohibition; they hav(:' established good order and good morals, but they have never attempted to establish prohibition in the 'I'erritory of Wyoming where women have liad control now for many years. But, gentlemen, 1 am willing to admit that women are in favor ot temperance, and I dont believe there is a man on this floor that is not in favor of temperance; I don't believe thero is a drunkard on our streets but what in his heart is in favor of temperance; and it is simply a question of what is the best mode to reach it; and when you have woman suffrage the good men and women of the community will study this question of intemperance and they will make some wise and good and conservative law and they will enforce that law. iNow, 1 want to say a word on prohibition and license, because 1 want you to see that this has nothing lo do with . the question of prohibition. When 1 moved to Massachusetts twenty years ago 1 found a prohibitory law on the statute books, but 1 had not lived a month in Boston before I saw liquors sold, and on every street, under a prohibilory law. It was not enforced. And the people rose up against it; they said it was nothing but organized hypocrisy; it was nothing but an organized blackmail upon Ihe liquor dealers, and the policemen were largely bribed not to see what was going on under their eyes. They swept it aw-ay, and they, passed a restrictive law, that the saloons should be closed on Sunday, and that no liquors should be sold to minors, etc., and those restrictive laws are no better enforced than the old jirohibition laws. They are all set aside. Kow, why is it that in Massachuselts pro- hibition didn't prohibit and restriction does not restrict"/ Simply because there was not voting power enough beliind the law to make the officers of the law perform their duty. And what you want, gentlemen, is to have that moral power behind a temperance law which will see that it is fully and freely and honestly enforced. 1 agree with General Grant, who said the best way to repeal a bad law is to enforce it, and I will add, the best way to maintain a good law is to enforce it; and 1 maintain it is wrong and foolish to say that woman suffrage means prohibition, or that it means high license, but I do maintain that woman suffrage does mean temperance, because we know as a matter of fact that the women of the community are more temperate than men, and that not one woman in fifty is in the habit of drinking intoxicating liquor. Well, now, gentle- men, women are more chaste than men; if it were not so you would not have the pure and happy homes of Helena antl of .Montana; and woman suffrage means a respectable purity in legislation. Women are more economical than men. It is harder for a woman to get a dollar than it is for a man. Under our present organization women cannot gel a fair pay for their work; .they never did and never w-ill until they get the ballot. We have 20,000 women in Boston working at $i a week and less. How can those women live lives worth living on such a miserable ])ittance as $2 and -fi a week? And why is it they are thus oppressed? Simply be- cause public sentiment has not demanded for women the same nie;isure of equality and justice that it demands for her brother. We excknfi- women from a thousand avocations which they could attend to .jusi as well as men, and we crowd lliem into a few avocations wliere they are undei'iiaid. People say ""I'hat is supply and demand". Hul sui)i)ly and demand are regulaled by the habits and customs of society, and 1 remind you that six moiilhs alter the women had the ballot in Wyoming the legislature passed a law that in all schools where women arc employed a woman should he iiaid the same wages as a man. "Equal pay for equal work" is Ihe watchword of justice, and it is the meaning of woman suf- frage. Women never do and never will get it until Ihey ha\e Ihe ballot, and, gentlemen, no class of men ever had it unlil they got the ballot. Why, it is not a hundred years ago that it was made a law in Kiigland for two men to combine and try to raise their wages. .Xnolher point; 1 say women are more economical than men. Bui the highest argument, gentle- CO.Xsrni 1 lo.NAI. CO.WK.N llo.N laSi) 87 men, as statesmen ttinl you ouglit to considor in tins matter is. that tlie women are ttie most law-atJkling class ol our citizens. If you will soarcli tlie records of the courts of the United States, you will find that there are more than ten men coinicted of crime to every one woman. Not only that, the crimes Inat the women are convicted of. men generally go unpunished for. i'hey are mostly for debauchery and drunlcenness. Men are seldom convicted of this offense. " .Men are convicted of rape and murder and robbery, a more serious and ag- gravated class of crimes, t^othat not only are our women ten times as law abiding as men, out the crimes they commit are a less dangerous class of crimes. W omen are more peaceable than men: they are more humane; they are more temperate: they are more just: they are more economical: they are more law-abiding. Are not these the very qualities that obtain in our government? And when we have the refining and purifying influ- ence of women superadded to the strength and the business capacity ol men, we shall have a perfect government — a government of the people — and we never shall have it without ttiem. .Now, gentlemen, 1 know it is said thai women do not want to vote, and to a certain extent it is true. .No class of citizens ever did want to vote until the ballot was placed in their hands. After the war of the revolution ended the white man, the working men of .\merica. never petitioned for the ballot, but tlie demo- cratic party with .Mr. .Jefferson as their leader said: "It is their right and Ihey shall have it.' .\nd without a petition and without a request the ballot was put in their hands and the great body of that class of men have been voting the deimicratic ticket from that day to Ibis. When the Ke- publican parly put don't put in these restrictions; don't tie up the Jiands of your legislatures. Give them a chance to make laws in accordance with the progress of society and the demands of an enlightened and progressive public opinion. And let us all stand for progress, let us all stand for justice and for liberty and for equal political rights for men and women. Then we may exclaim m the words of Longfellow: "Thou, too, sail on, U ship of State, Sail on, U Union strong and great; Humanity with all its fears, Willi all the hopes of future years, Is banging breathless on thy fate." ELKVKNTH D.\Y. Thursday, July IStii. 1889. Convention called to order by the I'resident at 9 A. M. The Clerk called the roll. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the .lonrnal of the previous day. .Mr. Rickards, of Siher Bow: The Committee on Education desire to make a report. The President: The report of the Committee on Education will now be read. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, your Committee No. 8, on Education, to which was referred Article 9 of the Constitution of 1884, beg leave to report that it has duly considered the same, together with all matters pertaining to this subject, and herewith transmits the result of its labors in the form of the following provisions, which are hereto attached, and recommend that they be adopled as a part of the Constitution. PROPOSITION NO. f7. ".July 18, Reported by Committee on J'^ducatioii — .1. E. Rickards. Chair- man. fGeneral File No. 1G^ Seclion 1. It shall be the duty of the Legislative Assembly of .Montana to establish and maintain a general, uniform and thorough system of public, free, common schools. Sec. 2. The public school fund of I he State shall consist of the pro- ceeds of such lands as ha.\f heretofore been granted, or may hereafler be granted to the state by the general govei'nment. known as school lands, and those granted in lieu of such; lands acquired by gift or pi'aiit from any person or corporation under any law or grant of the general go\ernmeiit: and of all other grants of land or money made to the State from the general government for general educational purposes, or where no other special purpose is indicated in such grant: all estates or distributive shares of estates that may escheat, to the State: all unclaimed shares and dividends of any corporation incorporated under the laws of Hie State, and all other grants, gifts, rlevises or bequests made to the State for gen- eral educational purposes. CU.NSTITLTIONAL CO.WEN'TIU.N 188'J 80 Set-. 3. Such public school fund shall forever remain nivioiale. guar- anteed by the State agauist loss or diversion, lo be invested, so far as possible, in public securities williin the State, including school district bonds, issued for the erection of school buildings, under the restrictions lo be provided by law. Sec. 'i. The Governor. Supermleiuient of Public Instruction. Secre- tary of State, Attorney General shall constitute Ihe Stale Board of Land i;ominissioii(>rs, which" shall have the direction, control, leasing and sale of the school lands of the Slate and Ihe lands granted or which may iieie- after lie granted for the support and licnelit of the \ annus Slate liduca- tional Institutions, undei- such regulations and restrictions as may be prescribed by law. Sec. 5. The interest on all invested school funds of Ihe Slate, and all rents acci'uing from the leasing of any school lands, shall be apportioned lo the sexcraT school di>lricls of the State, in proportion to the number .ot children and youlhs lietween the ages of six and Iwenty-one years, but no dislricl shall be entitled to such tlistributive share that does not maintain a public tree school fur al least three montlis during the year for which (.iistribiUioiis sliall be made. Sec. (i. It shall be the duty of the Legislative .Assembly to provide by taxation, or otherwise, sufficient means, in connection with the amount received from the general school fund, to mainlain a public, free, common school ill each organized district m Ihe Stale, for al least three months in each year. Sec. 7. The public free schools of the Stale shall be open to all children and youth between tlie age of Six and Twenty-one years. Sec. «. .Neither the Legislative Assembly, nor any county, city, town, or school district, or other public corporations, shall ever make, directly, or indirectly, any appropriation, or pay from any public fund or moneys whatever, or make any grant of lands or other property, in aid of any church, or for any sectarian purpose, or to aid in the support of any school, acamedy, seminary, college, university, or other literary scientific institution, controlled m whole or in part by any church, sect or denom- ination whatever. Sec. 9. No religious or partisan test or qualification shall ever be required of any person as a condition of admission into any public educa- tional institution of the State, either as teacher or student; nor shall at- tendance be required at any religious service whatever, nor shall any sectarian tenets be taught in any public educational institution of the State: nor shall any person be debarred admission to any of the collegiate departments of the university on account of sex. Sec. 10. The Legislature shall provide that aU elections for school officers shall be separale from those elections at which olher Stale or county officers are voted for. Sec. II. The general control and supervision of the Slate Lniveisil\ and the various other Stale educational institutions shall be vested in a Slate Board of Education, whose powers and duties shall be prescribed and legulated by law. The said Board shall consist of Eleven members, the Governor, Stale Superintendent of Public Instruction, and Attorney Cieii- eral, being members ex-officio, the other Eight members thereof shall be appointed by the Governor subject to the confirmation of the Senate, under the regulations and restrictions to be provided by law. Sec. 12. The funds of the State University and of all the other State institutions of learning, from whatever source accruing, shall forever remain inviolate and sacred to the purpose for which they are dedicated. 'I'he various funds shall be respectively invested under such regulations as may t)o prescribed by law, and shall be guaranteed by Ihe State against loss or diversion. The interest of said invested funds, together with the rents from leased lands or properties shall be devoted to the maintenance and perpetuation of these respective institutions." The President: If there be no objection, this report will take the usual course, and be referred to the Committee on l-'rinting, and ordered to be printed. Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, the Committee of Legis- lative Departments desires to make a report. 90 HKOCKKIHXCiS AM) DKHAIKS I'lii' M'piwl was si'iil iiji Id till' CliTk's ili'sk, ;uiil rrad. as lollnws: '■Hcsdlutum .\o. 19, by Coiiiad. I'rovRliiiK loi- Stato Examiner. July l(3lh, received and rel'erred to Uommittee on Legislative Uepartnients. Mr. President, your Conimitleo on Legislative Departnienls tiaxc direct- ed me to report bark the within resolution, with I lie reeoininendation ttiat tlie same be referred In the (loinmittee on Kxeciilne Department." (Signed I J. K. lOOLE, Chairnian. Mr. Brown, of Clioteau. senl up a resolulion In Ihc Clerk's desk, winch was read, as follows: Resolved, that the Commitiee on Judiciary of this (;onventi(in be in- structed to consider and report whether the Knabling Act of Congress provides for a general election to be held before admission to fill all the oil ices, both stale and county, created by the Constitution." The President: This resolution will be referred to the Committee on Judiciary, if there be no objection. ' The President then announced the special Committee to consider Res- olution ;\o. 7, as follows: Middleton, Maginnis, Knowles, Callaway, Muth, Haskell, Parberry. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Mr. President, I move that the Convention do now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, for the consideration of general orders. The motion was seconded. The Chair then put the question, and the same was carried. The President: The Cliair will appoint the gentleman from Madison (Mr. (Callaway to take the Chair. IN COMMITTKK Oi-' THE WHOLE. .Mr. Callaway in tlie -Cliair. The Chairman: 'i'he Committee will come to order. The first prop- osition on general file is No. 1, on Preamble. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman. I move you. sir, that we proceed to consider General t^'ile No. 1, and thai we consider the same by sections. The Chairman: It is unnecessary lo do that, as the rule provides that (ho article shall be read by sections. The Clerk read ISeclion I of the Preamtile and Bill of Rights. Mr. BicKford: Mr. Chairman, 1 move you, sir, that in the second line the words "by virtue" be stricken out, and, in lieu thereof, the words, "in accordance with" be inserted. The motion was seconded. Mr. Schmidt, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman, 1 would like to offer an amendment to Resolution No. 1. The Chairman: The gentleman from .Missoula moves to amend the Preamble as follows: Strike out of line two tlie words "by virtue of" and insert the words "m accordance with." \\ hat is the pli>asure of the Committee? Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairinan. I would like to offer an amendmeni to the Preamlile. The Chairman: The gentleman from Sil\er Hnw idlers the following form of Preamble: "We, ttie people of iMoiitaiia. gratelul to Almighty (iod for civil and religious liberty, in order to secure and perpetuale the same, and to organize a free government for iiurselves and those to come after, do oi'diim and estalilish this Conslilulnui. The motion was seconded. Mr. Sargeiil: .Mr. Chairman, I do not think it is necessary to refer in (his Preamble lo the aulhority by whicii we form a Stale Constitution. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis iV Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, will a siilislitnlc for this be in order? If so, 1 offer the following sutistitule. The (Ihair rules that this would not be in order. 'i'he Chairman: There has been offered by (he gentleman Irom Mis- hnula an amendment. To thai amendmeni I he giMitleman from Silver How offers an ameiidmeiit, and no other amendment can be i-ecei\eil at this time. Mr. (lolliiis, i)\' Cascade: Mr. Chairman. .Mr Schmidl. Ihc '.^cnlleman from Silver Bow, has anolher amendment, which is an amendmeni lo Ihc amendment. I have not heard the amendmeni nt Mr. Schmidl read. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKMK )X I88'.t 91 The Chairman: 'I'he substitute olfereil liy the gentli>inan trorn Silver Bow (Air. Schmidt is as follows: '■\\'e, the people of .Montana, in order to establish for ourselves and our posterity a permanent and republican form of government, and to provide for enactments thereunder of just laws, and a prompt and proper execution of the same, and an impartial administration of justice among us, and with a view of insuring order and domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and maintaining those means which conduce to human development and jirogress, and with the purpose of protecting ourselves in the enjoyment of those inalienable rights and cherished liberties which we have inlieriled from a brave and noble ancestry, do hereby enter into a solemn compact with each other, and declare and ordain this to be the Constitution for the State of iMontana." Mr. Toole, of Ueer Lodge: .Mr, Chairman, 1 move you, sir, that that amendment be laid on the table. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: It is moved and seconded that the substitute just read, which is an amendment to an amendment, be laid on the table. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Mr. Chairman. 1 would inquire where the table IS in the Committee of the \\ hole? We are working under Jeffer- son's .Manual, and in the Committee of the \\ hole a motion to lay upon the table is not in order. The Chairman: The jjoint of order of tlie gentleman is well taken. The question before the Committee now is upon the adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bdw. .Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: .Mr. Chairman, 1 move that the considera- tion of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow be indefinitely postponed. The motion was seconded. The Chair stati'd the motion. .Mr. Haskell, of Dawson: .Mr. Chairman, I move to amend the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin, so that when this Committee arise it report this first substitute back to the House, with the recommendation that it be indefinitely postponed. The Chairman: The gentleman is out of order. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute of thf gentleman from Silver Bow uMr. Schmidt . .Mr. Toole, of JJeer Lodge: -Mr. Chairman. I move you. sir. tliat when this Committee rise, it report the substitute back with tiie recommendation that it do not pass. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The question is upon the adoption of the substitute of the gentleman from Silver Bow. The Chair then put the motion, and the same was lost. The Chairman: .Now the question is upon the amendment of tln' gentleman from -Missoula .Mr. Bickford . :\lr. .Maginnis, of Lewis A Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, I move to amend, so that the whole reference to the action of Congress will be left out, and that the Freamble. when adopted, shall read: "We, the people of Mon- tana, gratful to .-Mmighty God for the blessings of .liberty, in order to secure the advantages of a state government, do ordain and establish this Constitution." 1 hold that we establish this Constitution by virtue of the inherent right of the people, and it is not necessary for us to refer to the Enabling .Act of Congress. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The Chair desires to put the motion on the substitute of the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. Sargent . The substitute was then read. -Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman. 1 agree that any reference to the Enabling Act here in our Preamble should be left out. I see a disposition ln'ie. and that disposition has been manifest fur several days, to bring a matter into the Preamble of this Constitution that will be dis- agreeable and obnoxious to quite a number of the citizens of this Terri- tory, and that is the reference in that Preamble to Diety — to Almighty God, I do not believe in mixing up, in any manner, religion with govern- ment. For a great number of years there has been a society organized in the United States seeking to amend the .National Constitution by having some reference therein to .\linighty God. It has met with but little favor. 92 I'HOCEKDl.NGS A.ND DKBAJES it has boen a question that has been discussed In a considerable extent. Heligion was ori!-'u\aliy mixed up wilb f.'o\ernini'iit. K\ery ^iiivcrnineiit had lis relifion. 'J'lir Jewish goveriinienl liad, as the head of their (.'(jvern- meiil. Jehovah. .Ml pagan nations had a religion— their peculiar and national religion. We have, in this country, generally ailhered to ttn; (Christian religion. But this country is a tree country. Every religion can be pracliced hei'e — it matters not what it is. A religion that would acknowledge Budha as the fountain of religion would be as appropriate here in this country as the Christian religion. The people that believe in no God are as good citizens of this nation as those who recognize the existence of Cjod. As for myself, I believe in an Almighty God; but I do not believe in bringing it in here — bringing it into our civil govern- ment. 1 think that our religion should be separated entirely from our civil governnienl. It should not be mixed up in any way, shape, form or manner, ^ou know thai, in the mterprelation of the Conslitution of the United States, our courts have occasion to recur frequently to its Pre- amble. Who inaugurated the Constitution of the Uniled States? "W'e. the people." And the courts have deferred to that as interpreting as to whether that Constitution was a Constitution by the people or adopted Ity the state. And so, it you go on in this Preamble here, the question may arise hereafter, whether or not, in establishing our Constitution, if we recognize a Diety, it would be proper for a man who did not entertain such sentiments to hold office in this country — whether or not we had not made such a recognition ol" God as to become part of the Constitution of the land. And I tell you, gentlemen of this Convention, now, that there is a large element in this Territory, and all over the United States, that will not approve of a Constitution of that kind, where people can appeal to tins Preamble in future, and say, '"lou ha\e come here in your Pre- amble, and you have recognized (iod; that is a part of your cixil govern- ment: that is a part of the institutions of your country — "when we know lull well thai here, in the \ery bill that is presented here, under which we are conxcned today, there shall be nothing upon the sut),j(>ct of race — religious liberty shall be guaranteed to all: and at the very start out of your Constilution you come in here and you recognize a religious people. it may be hereafter used in interpreting that Constitution, and I believe that we should not adoi)t any Preamble of that kind. I do not care how simple the Preamble is, but the blunging into this Constitution ot a ques- tion of religion is something that I do not believe is really in accordance with this .\ct under which we have assembletl. The religion of the country is the Christian religion, which recognizes as the founder ol our religion, Jesus Christ. To Him we all bow: tie is Ihe head: tie is the head of the religion: and if you are going to establish anything in this Constitution, you bad better make a reference to Jesus Christ instead of God Almighty. Mr. Kanouse. of .Meagher: .Mr. Chairman, in order that we may proceed more intelligently in this matter, it seems to me it would be well for members who desire lo offer an ameiidmenl. that they offer the substance of those amendments, to enable us to \ote upon lliose pending more intelligenlly than we otherwise could. In view of this fact. I offer the following as a substitute to the Preamble now before the Convention: "W'e, the people of Montana, m order to secure the advantages of state government, and to pei'petiiale Ihe blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain and establish this Constitution." Mr. W'hilehill, of Ueer Lodge: .Mr. Chairman, there are 75 mcnibers of this Convention, and 1 believe there is not one ot them who is not able to write a Preamble. an(i it is simply a matter of choice as to any of them. Now this i^reamble which has been preiiared by the Committee is a concise one. II embodies the ideas that most of the members of this Convention are willing to adopt: ami in reply to .lodge Knowh^s' ideas, it seems to me they are very (|ui>er. He says he acknowledges the faci that there is a great Crealor, and I do not belie\e there is a nalion on the face of the earth tlial does iiol. It is not a matter of religion, the placing of the W(U-ds "Almighty (iod" there. If we were to adopt Ibis idea and give recognilion lo Ihe birth of Jesus GlirisI in it, then we might be li'cading on some religion: but the mere facl <^( our recognizing our gi'alefulni'ss to AIniighly God is sumclliiiig thai is recognized by every savage Iribi- upon the face id' the earlli. .\i>l only the cultured and in- telligent people, but Ihe savages, recognize (he fact that there is an Almighlv God, and 1 believe it is proper in this connection to show our C.OXSTrn TKl.NAL (.0.\\K.\ TKIX IS8;i 9o' gratitude to llie great Creatur — to sliow ooi' gfatitude lor tlie blessings of liljerty we enjoy. ,No\v, anollier tlmig to which some of the gentlonien objeel IS that we have made an allusion to the power which has given this authority. I say that this is eminently proper. Vou should remem- ber that wlien Ethan Alien demanded the surrender of Fort Tieonderoga, the attendant officer, when astied by what authority, he answered. "In the name id' the great Jeho\ah and the (Continental Congress." And 1 believe that in recognizing tlie Congress in this it is proper. We believe, and I believe, tliat tins is a nation, and that, without the authority of Congress, we liave no power whatever to act. In 1884, we attempted to make a Constitution, and wliy didn't it carry? Because it was not authorized by Congress. And so 1 say that it is eminently proper here that we recognize the fact that we are acting here by authority of the Congress of the L'nited (States. Now, gentlemen, why are we acting? Why do we want a state government? For no other purpose, I believe, and every gentleman of this Convention will agree with me that it is lor the purpose of securing the advantages of a State Government. It is not for the purpose of securing the blessings of liberty. Everybody knows that was secured to us a century ago, and we are not establishing a Constitution now under the same circumstances under which the first Constitution was established. And nearly every one of these amendments that 1 have heard read are copied almost verbatim from some Constitution that was framed in 1776. The conditions are greatly changed. Here is a preamble which expresses exactly what we are doing now. I venture to say that it is not copied from any preamble o\ tlie Constitution of the United States— 1 venture to say that it is not copied from one of them; and 1 think the ideas embodied in this one prepared by the Committee are proper. I am perfectly willing to say. and will say it again, that it is a matter of choice. I believe there is not a member of this Conven- tion wdio cannot write as good a one: but what is the use of discussing all these ideas of the different gentlemen? L,et us adopt one or the other and settle the matter. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, as the gentleman says, this matter is greatly a matter of choice. i\ow, merely to shorten up this discussion and come to a conclusion as soon as possible, I wish to offer, whenever 1 am in order, a substitute for the Preamble, which will read something like this: "We, the people of Montana, do hereby ordain and establish this Constitution." iSow. that will answer .just as good as any- thing else: the reasons why we do it are not important, and there is no reference to any outside matter in it. The Cliairiiian then put the question upon the amendment offered by the genllcnian from Silver Bow (Mr. Sargent', and the same was declared lost. Mr. Katon. of Park: Mr. Chairman, if I am in order, I have an aiiiendmeid whicli I would like to offer. The Clerk read as follows: ■■\\ (>. the people of .Montana, gratetul for all the causes which have cons|dri'd to permit so glorious a consummation, do ordain and establish the following Constitution." .Mr. .Maglnnis, of Lewis iV Clarke: Mr. Chairman, 1 believe that the amendment that I offered is pending, is it not? Tlie Chairman: I will say to the gentleman from Park that the gentleman who now occupies the floor has previously offered an amend- ment, and therefore that is the amendment before the Convention at this time. Mr. IMaginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, I believe that the amendment that I offered is now pending. .\ow, I do not care to debate this question at all: I do not care to go into the religious question. I do not care to have this Convention enter upon the unprofitable field of leligious discussion. 1 do no! doubt, that as long as man finds himself an inhabitant of tliis world, surrounded by forces that he cannot control, but wliich have the most momentous effect, upon his destinies, tliat the question of what power has made the world, and what powers conti'ol and direct it, will be one of the greatest and most absorbing questions which can agitate, as for all time they have agitated, the minds of men. The answers that have been given to these profound questions may -not have satisfied humanity. The Hebrew answer may not be satisfactory, the Christian answer may not be satisfactory, the .Mohammedan or the Pagan answer may not be satisfactory, and th(> scientific answer may not 94 pho(;kei)I.n<;s am) dkhaiks be satisfactory; but tlie most unsatislactni-y answer of all is the answer of the man who says there is no (;ause and there is no God (Applause". I do not desire, mdeed, 1 am most averse to the proposition, that any form of faith or creed shall be crystalized in this Constitution; but I fmd that, as the Preamble now reads, it is in conformity with nearly all ol the Constitutions of all the States of the Union; and while this refer- (■nce may not be contained in the letter of the Constitution of the Lnited iSiales, it is embodied in that grand instrument, the real Preamble of the Constitution of the United S>tates — the Declaration of Independence. The reference to the Supreme Power is broad enough to embrace all sei^ts and creeds — even the most advanced ad\ocates of the new scientific tliought may be content with it as the formation of a name for tlie primal energies of the universe, whicli, in their minds, is the first grand cause of all. 1 cannot understand how any man can find his conscience or belief hurt by this reference to the Great Power and Governing Cause. There can be no objection to it as it stands, and I am willing that it shall stand. It is in most of the Stale Constitutions, and. as it has never done any harm in any of them, I am sure that it can do none in ours. 1 do object, however, to that clause of the Preamble which says that we ordain or matce this Constitution by virtue of an Act of Congress. 1 hold that It is framed by virtui; of the inherent right of the people of Montana. I have always held that it was Ihe right of tlie people of all tlie territories to form their Constitutions and apply for admission into the Union, without the intervention of any Act of Congress. .Nearly one- half of the territories that have gone into the Union have formed their Constitutions without any Organic or Knabling Act of Congress; and al- though, as my friend from Silver Bow says, we formed a Constitution that was not accepted, it was not rejected on that ground. The Congress that rejected it, rejected it on other grounds, for they recognized the fact that previous Congresses had admitted territories into the Union which had framed their Constitutions without any Knabling Act. I'here- fore, I object to tlie statement in this Preamble that the people of .Montana form their Constitution by virtue of this .\ct of Congress. It is incon- sistent with the declaration immediately following, that all power is derived from the people. I call for the reading of my amendment. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 sent up an ameiidinenl, .Mr. Chairman, but it seems to have been lost. The Chairman: The Clerk will read the ainendmenl of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke. The Clerk then read as follows: "WC, the people of the Territory of .Montana, invoking the blessings f)f .Mmighty God, do eslablish this Constitution for the State of Montana." .Mr. Cai'iienter, of licwis iV Clarke: I will give my reasons for that. The iiinalilmg Act was passed in order to enable the territories to form Constitutions for themselves as Slates. Some of the territories have dodged that, and in the previous Constitution .Montana dodged it. They said "we, the people of Montana." Well, now, that accurately expresses nolliing. It is the people of the Territory forming a Constitution for thi'inselves as a State. Therefore I liave offered this ainendmenl, al- though I shall not be able to vote upon it, as 1 am compelled lo :iltend upon the Suj^renie Court m the ne.xt room; but 1 will lea\e it in tlif hands of the Convention. The Chairman: The question before Ihe Comiiiilti'e is upnii the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis iS; (JIarke (.Maj. .Magmnis . It strikes out all lliat [lart of the Preamble refiM'rmg to the -Vet oi (Congress. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 will vote for the amendment offiM'cd b> the gentleman from Lewis A Clarke (Mr. Maginnis because 1 beli(>\e it is III Itie line of a good amendment, and, if thai carries, (Ihmi I will vote tor one or two otIliM' amendments that lia\e been offered in Ihe Cnmniil- tee; and in Ihat way we can come to a conclusion afler awliilc Hut this is better than Ihe original, and so 1 will votr tnr ihls. .Mr. 'I'oole. of Lewis iV Clarke: .Mr. Chairman. I IicIii'M' llial e\er\- body agrees llial Ibis is a matter xcry iiiucli ot liisir, and il is not imporlanl. II is simply the Prcamlili'. auil I dn iml i|uili' understand why Ihe genlleiiien should b(> so punctilious willi icIimciici' Id the use of language. The Committee was charged wilh llic diilv and responsihilily of reporting this Preamble. I think Ihey were einmeiilly competent to consider thai i|ueslion, and beliexe that Ihey have considered il, giving ample lime lor thai imriHisr. .Ndw llien- cei'lamh- cannot lie any im- co.Nsi 111 iKiXAi, (.i».\\ i;.\ I i(i.\ i.s,s;i \r, propriety iii llic use nl llic laiit;u;m(' thai Itiis is dinit', imt liy vii-tuc ot llie Act of Coiiyrcss, but in am'oi'daiiri' witli it. 1 bclu'vc lliat tlie clialr- niaii of llio Commit toe Inmseif lias so amended Itie I'reanible. We are \ieldmg nolhmy wlien we say "iii aecoi-dance with" it. 'i'liere is not a gentleman u[)on tins floor but knows that tlie Governor and tlie Chief Jusliee and the Secretary of tins Territory apportioned the Territory pursuant to that Act of Congress, lliey know the Executive of this Territory called this Convention together pursuant to that Act of Con- gress, and that we are assembled here today, with a full corps-of officers to run this Convention, and that everything we do here, is m pursuance of the Enabling Act of Congress. .Now. I believe in supporting and sus- taining- the Committee, especially upon these matters that are considered unimportant and immaterial. They have gixen it. I thmk, proper con- sideration, and if the reports of the (lommittees of this Conxention are to be entitled to no consideration, and we are to branch out in this line of policy, it is my oi)iiiion that this Convention will be in session here for 60 or 90 days (Applause . Mr. Luce, of (iallatm: I simiily want to call the attention of the Committee to section 8 of the Enabling Act: "And if the Constitutions and governmenls of said proposed slates shall be republican in form, and if all the provisions of this Act have been complied with m tlie formation thereof, it shall be the duty of the President of the t'luled Stales to issue his proclamation announcing the result of the election in all four of the States, and thereupon, the proposed States which have adopted Constitu- tions and formed State governments as herein provided, shall be deemed adinitted by Congress into the Union"; etc. .Now, I thmk that this Pre- amble simply intends to recognize the .Jict of Congress, and, under this amendment, to state in the beginning that we propose to make a Consti- tution in accordance with — that is all; and I do not understand why the Act of Congress which enables us to come here should be entirely ig- ncJred; and for that reason 1 have no objection to the Preamble as pro- posed and amended by the Chairman of the Committee. The Chair then put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke [Mr. .Maginnis , and the amendment was declared lost. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Uid I understand. .Mr. Chairman, that there was an amendment of the Committee to strike out "by virtue of" and make it "in accordance with"? The chairman: \es sir. .Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: The amendment offered by the Commit- tee, or by myself as Chairman of the Committee, was to strike out the words "by virtue of" and insert the words "m accordance with the provisions of." -Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I have no objection to that. .Mr. Ivnowles, of Siher Bow: I think the gentleman from Lewis iS: Clarke, when he comes to considi'r tins question, will not agree to that, 'i'his Convention is not really making this Preamble for ilself. This does not say that "we, the Convention of .Montana Territory," do these things in accordance with the .Act of Congress, but "we, the people." iN'ow. the people are adopting this Constitution m their sovereign capacity, by virtue of the sovereignty that is in them — their inalienable rights. Thai is what is being done tiere. It is not adopted by this Convention. We meet here, we are proceeding in accordance with the .\ct of Congress: but when the people come lo adopt this Constitution, they will say they do not adopt it by virtue of any .\ct of Congress, or in accordance witti any -Act of Congress. There is no authority given to them by virtue of the .\ct of Congress, because, as the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Ma^inniS) say.s^ they can adopt a Constitution without any .\ct of Con- gress. They will adopt this Constitution by virtue of the sovereign power that is in them. The .\ct of Congress has nothing to do with it. .Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: 1 offered an amendment, or proposed to, which, if now in order, 1 will renew. The Chairman: Will tlie gentleman from Silver Bow indulge me? 'J'here are now- three amendments which are proposed. The first one is the one offered by tlie gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (.Mr. Carpenter, which was sent up some time ago: the second is from the gentleman from l-'ark, and the next is from the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Uixon). Was there a second to tlie amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke? yc PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES A memtiei': I second the motion. Tile Cliairiiian: The aineiulmenl will be reart. The Clei'k read as lollows: "We, the people ot the Territory ot Montana, hnoking the blessings ol Almighty God, do establish this Uonstitution lor the State of Montana.' The Chair then put the question on the above amendinent and a vote being taken, thi' same was declared lost. .Mr. Eal,un, ot Park: Mr. President, I now renew my amendment. The amendment was seconded. I lie Chairman: The gentleman otters the I'ollowing amendment: ■'\\ e, the people of Montana, grateful for all the causes which have consijired to permit so glorious a consumption, do ordain and establish the following Constitution." The Chair iiiit the question on the above amendment, and the same was declared lost. .Mr. Di.xon, of Siher Bow: I now move the adoption of my amend- ment. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: 'the gentliMnan otfei-s the following substitute for the Preamble: "S\ e, the people of .Montana, do hereby ordain and establish this (.Constitution. ' The Chair then |iut the question on the above amendment, and a division being called lor, the same was declared lost by a vote of 43 to 20. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, 1 now move the adoption of the Preamble reported by the Commitee, as amended by tlie Committee. Tlie motion was seconded. The Chairman: The Preamble reads as follows: "We, the people of .Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the bless- ings of liberty, in order to secure the advantages of a State government, do, in accordance with the provisions of the Enabling .\ct of Congress, approNed the L'::!iid day of f'ebruary, \. D. 1889, ni'dain and establish this Constitution." The Chair then put the question on the above Preamble, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Bicktord, of Missoula: .Mr. Chairman. 1 move, if it be in order, that when the Committee arise it report the Preamble back, with the recommendation that it be passed as amended. Tile motion was seconded. 'I'he Chair stated the motion. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman: Before that motion is put, 1 would say thai it is not necessary, in my opinion, to have this motion laid before the Convention. .Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Inasmuch as this is a beginning, we might as well start out well, and 1 do not think it is necessary to state these motions on every paragraph. 1 suppose the rule in Com- mittee is thai, after a paragraph is passed, you cannot go back to it, and after all these amendments of the different articles are carried, a single motion that the Committee rise and report back tlie entire proposition with Ihe amendments, is sufficient. It will save much time, and I think il, would be lii'st to follow the course I have suggested. ■Mr. liickford, of .Missoula: .Mr. t;iiairman, 1 withdraw my motion. Tlu^ Chairman: Section 1 reads as follows: "Section 1. That all political powei' is vested in and derived from th(^ people: that all govern- ment of right originates from the people, is founded upon their will iiiri.\ and IS insliluled solely for the good of the whole." -Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move to strike out the word "from" in the third line, which reads "originates from the people" and inserl iiislead "oi'iginates with the people" — in other words. I mo\e to ameml by sinking out the word "from" in line 2 ol' Sci-lmn I, niul insiM'tmg instead the word "with." The amendment was seconded. The Chair then iiul the qu(>slioii nn llir ami'iidmi'iil. and Ihe same was carried. Mr. Kanouse, of Meayher: 1 move lo amend Ihe secdon by striking out the woi'd "thai" wherever it occurs in the section. The motion was seconded. CONSTITLTIONAI, (.ONVKNTION 1889 97 Till' Chairman: I'ho gentleman Ironi Meaghor i.Mr. Kanouse moves to amend by striking out tlie word "'tliat" in the section, wherever il occurs. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarice: I mov(^ to amend that motion by inserting the word "and" in llie place nl the second ■'that": so that it shall read "and all government of right originates wilh the people," etc. The motion was seconded. The chair then stated the motion. Mr. \S hitehill, of l>eer Lodge: \ou will observe that if that amend- ment is adopted, it will be necessary to amend all thi» following sections clear through. That follows only after the heading; it is a declaration by the people of Montana that all political power, etc. Now, if that section was taken by itself, the amendmeni would be proper: but taken in connection with the statement Hint it is a declaration of the rights of the people. I think the word comes in proper enough. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: .Mr. Chairman, in discussing this question 1 would say lo the Convention that your Committee had under considera- tion the very question which is now pending before tlie Convention; that 111 order to satisfy the minds of the Commiitee a thorough investigation was had. and nearly all the Preambles and Bills of Rights of the different !>talcs of the Inioii were examined, and it was found to be almost the universal practice to use the phraset)logy here used in this report. 1 would say further, as the gentleman from Deer Lodge has well said. this IS a declaration of the rights of the people. It is different from ttie ordinary grammatical construction, in connection with a matter I'f this kind, and it is entiiely proper that it remain as it is. There is no grammatical error whatever as 1 can see, in using the word as it has been used here. We declare that certain things are the rights of the people. It seems to me that the report of the Committee should be adopted as it is. 'these amendments, if tliey are of any use whatever, are so immaterial that it is hardly worth while to discuss them. This (lommittee has had them under consideration, if there is anything that IS of a material nature, I would be glad to see it corrected: but to spend the time of 75 men in discussing what is only a matter of taste. — and every man in the Convention will have a different idea as to what should be the grammatical construction of the sentence, — 1 say it is foolish. We are hardly called upon to do that. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & C'arke: .Mr. Chairman, I would ask if there IS not a Committee on Phraseology that goes over all these things after- wards, and. if so, why cannot we leave this to them? The Chairman: The question before the Committee is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, winch is an amend- ment to an amendment. There are two amendments pending, one from the gentleman from Meagher to strike out the word "that wliere\er it occurs. The amendment to that is upon the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to insert after tlie word "people" tlie word "and." The Chair then put the question upon the amendmeni and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The question now is upon the amendment to strike out the word "that" wherever it occurs in the Section. The Chair then put the question and a vote being taken the same ■was declared lost. The Chairman: The question now is upon the adoption of the amendmeni to strike out "from" in I he last line and insert in lieu thereof the word "with." The Chair then put the question and a vote being taken the same was (Jeclared carried. The Chairman; The question now recurs upon the adoption of the Section. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke; .Mr. Chairman, in order to further facilitate the business of the Committee of the Whole, I suggest the rule be, that, where a section is not further amended, it shall stand, without any motion to adopt. Where it is not amended, or where it is amended by the Committee, the section shall stand for report. The (chairman: If tliat be the sense of the Committee, the Chairman ■will adopt the rule. The Clerk then read Section 2. as follows: m I'ltOCEEDINGiS A.MJ DKBATKS "Sec. 2. Tlial, llio people of this Stale have a sole and exclusne right to govern tlienisclves as a lri!e, sovereign and independent Stale, and to alter and abolish their Constitution and torni of governinenl whenever they may deem it necessary to their safety and happiness, provided such change he not repugnant to the Constitution of the United Stales. There being no amendments offered to Section 2 the Clerk then read Section 3, as follows: "Section 3. That all persons are born equally free, and have certain natural, essential and inalienable rights, among which may be reclioned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and of seeking and obtain- ing their safety and happiness in all lawful ways." There being no amendments offered to Sec. 3, the Clerk then read Sec- tion 4, as follows: "Sec. 4. That the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship without discriminatmn shall forever hereafter be guaran- teed, and no person shall be denied any civil or political rights, priv- ilege or capacily, on account of his opinions concerning religion, but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dis- pense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licenliousness by biga- mous or polygamus marriage or otherwise, or justify practices incon- sistent with the good order, peace, or safety of the State, or opposed to the civil authority thereof, or of the United States. No person shall be required to attend or support any minister or place of worship, religious sect or denomiiKilion against his consent; nor shall any preference by law be given to any religious denomination or mode of worship." There being no amendment to Section 4, the Clerk then read Section 5, as follow's: "Sec. 5. That all elections shall he free and open, and no power, civil or military, shall at any time interfere to prevent the free exercise of the right of suffrage." Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: 1 move to amend Section 5 by striking out the words "and open" in the first line, after the word "free." 'I'lie moliiin was seconded. The Chair slalei.l thi' molii.ui. .Mr. Marshall, of .Missoula: Mr. Cliairiiian. 1 dn iiol know what the words "and open," as they occur m the section, mean. We have now the secret ballot, and by the late law of the Territory the polls are removed, and no man can come within a certain distance of the place of voting; and it seems to me that the word as printed may render that law un- satisfactory, although that is not the intenlion; and it seems to me that the words "and open" really add no force to the section. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: I do not understand that the provisions of the bill known as the Australian System, prevents an open election; m other words, while there are restrictions placed around the exercise of the righl of franchise, the Australian System does not prevent an open election. There is a meaning to the words, and the meaning should be preserved in this Conslitution. Not only are elections to be free, but they are also to be open. They should be open to all persons who are legally entitled to vote. The polls should be open lo all iiersons, who, under the laws of this Territory and the L'niled Stales, are enlilled to the right of franchise. 1 believe that the words should be left in, because the righl may be protected by their remaining in the plac(> where they now are. Mr. Robinson, of Ueer Lodge: I agree with the views of ihe gentle- man from Missoula. I understand this to mean in conliadistinction to secret elections — that is, the elections themselves shall be open while the ballots may bo secret, closed ballots. But Ihe election itself must be free and open to everybody — as contradistinguished from any secret election; it is in public and free to I'verybody. I see nolliing wrong as it now stands, in the section. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I certainly am in favor 01 the amendment offered by the g(>iitleman from Missoula (Mr. Mar- shalli. 11 is about time we had an election in this country that is free and not open. We have bad enougli of open elections m this country; and if this clause in Ibis Constitution is for th(> jiurpose of doing away with or making a dead letter of the Australian System, which is now on cur statute books, the sooikm' w(> know it the better. CONSI'Ill I'lOXAl. l.o.W K.\ ri(t.\ l,S8i) 99 Mr. .Middlelon. of (luster: .Mr. Cliairniau, the words "and open," as used in that seetion. can certainly mean nottiiiii; more nor less than thai the eli'clions shall be public as contradistinguished I'roni secret. -Now. to say lliat tliat has anything to do with the Australian System of Noting, or any other system of voting, is sheer nonsense. It certainly is right that that proxision should remain where it is. The elections may not under any circumstances be conducted secretly. It means that the election itself should be public, but it lias nothing to do with the mode or manner of voting. The Gtiair then put the question on the amendment of the gentleman Irom .Missoula (Mr. Marshall) and a vote being talien, the same was declared lost. The Clerk then read Section 6, as follows: "Sec. 6. That courts of justice shall be open to every person, and a speedy remedy afforded for every injury of person, prop- erty, or character: and that right and justice should be administered without sale, denial or delay. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman, 1 move to strike out the word "should" and insert the word "shall" in the second line. The motion was seconded. The Chair ttien put the riuestion, and tlie same was declared carried. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, before proceeding, 1 mo\e to strike out the word "of" in the second line and insert the word "to," so that it shall read "foi' every injury to person, property or char- acter." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question upon the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow, and the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 7, as follows: "Sec. 7. That the people shall be secure in person, papers, home and effects from unreasonable searches and seizures, and no warrant to search any place or seize any pei'son or thing shall issue without describing the place to be searched and the person or thing to be seized, as near as may be; nor without probable cause, supported by oatli or affirmation reduced to writing. .Mr. Kobinson. of Deer Lodge: Mr. Cliairman, I desire to amend Section 7. The Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodge offers the following amendment: "Amend Section 7 by inserting therein, after the word "seized." on line 3. the following, "and the claim of right of such person or thing seized, and object of such seizure." The motion was seconded. The Chair then put the motion, and the same was declared lost. Mr. .Marstiall. of Alissoula: Mr. Chairman, 1 move to amend that section by striking out the words "as near as may be," in the last line, after the word "seized." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. .Marshall, of .Missoula: It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that those words in this section simply amount to nothing. The Constitution of the United Slates, which provid(>s for the same thing, says "particularly ^escribing"; and it does seem to me that to require it to be described as near as may be is equivalent to leaving it out altogether. The Chair put the question, and a division being called for. the motion was carried by a vote of 35 to 29. The Clerk read Section 8, as follows: "Sec. 8. That, until otherwise provided Ij.\' law, no person shall for felony be proceed(>d against criminally, otherwise than by indictment or information (and by information in I'ases where the accused has been held to answer by the committing magistrate , except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia when m actual service in times of war or public danger. In all other cases, offenses shall be prose- cuted criminally by indictment or information. A grand jury may be drawn and summoned at any time when, in the discretion of the district judges, it may be necessary. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment to Section 8. 100 PROCEEDINGS A.NU DEBATES The Chairman ; 'I'lio gcntlpiium from Silver Bow oll'ors tlio following amendment to Section H: "Amend Section 8 by stritcing out, in line 1, the words "that, uiilil otherwise provided by law." The amendment was seconded. The Chair staled the question. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, there are some additional amendments there that 1 would like to have read. I would pi'cfer to have the whole amendment read. The Clerk then read as follows: "also, in line 2, the words 'incidental or"; also all those wnrds in brack- ets; also, all those words beginning with 'in,' in line 4." -Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow. I would like it to be considered as a whole. I would like to amend the whole section so as to read, when amended, "No person shall for felony be proceeded against otherwise than by information, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia when in actual service in the time of war or public danger." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 would like to ask (he learned gentleman from Silver Bow County if the object of the amendment is to abolish the grand jury entirely, and wipe it out from the statute book, or whether it IS the mtenlion to leave it in the discretion of the Judge in extreme cases, or such extraordinary cases as may appear to the Court on certain occasions, to select a grand jury to aid tlie court? Mr, Dixon, of Silver Bow: 1 offer a substitute for this section as worded, in order to get the whole matter before the Convention. Mr. Clark, of Siher Bow: If Ihi' Chair will allow me, 1 will answer the gentleman from Custer. My object in making this amendment is to abolish, absolutely and forever, the grand jury system in the State of Montana (Applause . .Now, 1 do not know Ihat this section as I have amended it is in proper form, and 1 did not have time to prepare a substitute for it, and 1 have no doubt there are gentlemen here who can greatly improve on the reading of the amendment as offered. 1 have had a great deal of experience with the grand jury system in this Terri- tory, For the last 20 years there has been scarcely one year that I have not served upon a grand jury in this Territory; and in a great number of the indictments. — I think that it would average 60 per cenl. or more — that have been found by the grand juries upon which 1 served, they were either quashed or a nolle entered. 1 have studied that system carefully. 1 have seen men go before the grand juries of the counties 111 which 1 have lived, actuated by the spirit of revenge to fasten some- liiing upon some man against whom tliey had a grudge. I have wit- nessed the fact Ihat all the indictments that have been found were upon ex parte evidence, and as I stated, generally arose from mailers of personal consideration. And it may grow out of this that any man in this community, or in this commonwealth, may have a stain fastened upon his name which will last forever, while he is as innocent as a new born babe upon the subject matter of the indictment. Gentlemen, I consider that it is inquisitorial; that it is founded upon ex parte evi- dence, and that these matters can be reached by information in every case, and the grand jury system done away with. I consider that it is a relic of the dark ages, Ihat has lingered anil clung to the institutions of this country, and that it is time for the citizens of the Nineieentli Century, and the people of Montana who are now ahoiil to be clotlied witli statehood, to rise up in their majest>' aiul relegate it In I he dark ages from wlienc(> it came (.Applause^ The Cliairnian: If the gentleman will indulge me a moment, 1 wish tn say that the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Dixon' offers a substi- tute in relation to this matter— to strike out Section S and insert the following: "Sec. 8. Criminal offenses of which justices' courts, and municipal or other courts inferior to the district courts, have jurisdiction, shall be presented by complaint; criminal offenses of which the district courts have jurisdiction shall be prosecuted by information after examination and cominiltment by a magistrate, or by leave ot the court, or by indict- ment wilhout such examination or commitment, or without such leave of court. The grand jury shall consist of seven persons, of whom five must concur to fiinl an indiclment. .\ grand jury shall only he drawn and summoned when tlie district judge shall, in his discretion, consider it necessary, and shall sn order." The gentleman frdin Silver Bow moves thai tins be adopted as a substitute. CO.NSI'rn IKINAI. C.ll.WK.N TIO.N IS8i) 101 Tlie iiintiiin was .secoiuli'd. Mr. liurlciKli. of Custer: Aow, Mr. Cliaifinan, I will [jrocood to say what 1 lUdpdsccl to say before 1 sat down, and thai is. lliat tlie gentleman Iroui Silver How County is not more firmly nnpressed with the im- portance of abolishing tlie grand jury system than I am; and I believi; 111 making 'iio half way work of it. 1 agree wilh tiiin fully, that thi; system is a relic of tlic dark ages of barbarism, that came down to us Ironi our loii'lalhers, and that we have no use for it: that it is a black spot and a disgrace upon the escutcheon of our country at the present time. The substitute offered by my friend from Silver Bow (Mr. IJixon) — who is an eminent la\v\ ei-, one of the alilest m the Northwest — seems to me to furnish no adequate remedy that should be considered in dis- posing (d' this i|uestioii. 1 believe the time has come when a man should go clotlied 111 the full panoply of manhood and make his complaint against the accused, and have him arrested and held, and not any sixteen men in a secret inquisition; and 1 shall, for one, vote against the grand jury system — to abolish it root and branch — and vote for the proposition of the gentleman from Silver Bow County (Mr. Clark: which I think is right. -Mr. Hobmson, of Deer J.odge: .Mr. Chairman, 1 lliink we are now' considering for the welfare of Montana one of its very important propo- sitions in this Constitution. I do not quite agree with thi; gentlemen who have addressed this Con\ention upon that proposition. 1 do not, entirely agree with Ihem, but. that is a inalti'r in tlie discretion of this Convention. 1 am thoroughly imbued with the idea of prosecuting crim- inal cases by information and com]ilaint, and am thoroughly imJjued with the idea of dispensing with the grand jury syslom as far as it is possible to do it, and were it not but for one thing that I shall suggest, 1 should heartily and thoroughly concur in the views expressed by the gentlemen; and that is this, whether or not it would be w-ise to entirely vvi|je the graiKl jury system out, or whelher it would not be w'lser to retain it as i-oiitemiilated m the amendment (d' Ihe gentleman from Silver Bow, to a limited extent, leaving it discretionary with the .Judge of the Court when a grand jury should be empanelled or to provide that it shall be em- panelled once a year — a grand jury of seven or nine persons — for these reasons alone; sometimes, on overhauling the books and affairs of the county it might be necessary to make an examination and a grand jury would be the proper persons to do it — a small grand jury: and more im- portant than that wou'd be this: if we could have ideal prosecuting attorneys at all times, then I would say wipe it from existence entirely; but experience has taught us that we won t at all times get men wtio are entirety mdepeiiijent and fre(> from the influences of friends or power, or a fear, sometimes, of cliques. l''ear of political influences, of classes of men. may operate on the minds of time serving district at- torneys, who would fad to file informations against men where there was merit in Ihe case, i'hrough the influences of these men prosecuting attorneys might not al all tunes do their duty. Then as a check, Mr. (chairman, upon such influences as that, whether or not it would not be wise to retain a grand jury of seven or nine persons, to be called at the discretion of the presiiliiig judge, or to be called once a year, as a check upon the influences that official men, or cliques of men who have large political influence, might exercise over the minds of Ihese prosecuting attorneys, who would not be willing at all times to come up squarely to the. mark irrespectix e of influences that might be brought to bear upon them. It is a question for the consideration of this Convention, whether It would not be wiser to retain the grand jury system to that limited extent, as embodied in the substitute of the gentleman from Silver Bow, —.Mr. Uixon, 1 believe. I am rather, so far as I am concerned, after giving it due deliberation and consideration, inclined to support that proposition, and not to abolish Ihe system entirely, but to retain it to that limited extent, to provide for those contingencies. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the objections proposed by the gentleman from Uecr Lodge have not very much weight. Now, lie states that the grand juries may be necessary for the purpose of examining records and the official acts of public officers, and matters of that kind. 1 do not know what the experience of the gentleman from Deer Lodge is with reference to these matters. I do not think, having engaged in the practice of law, he has been on !02 PHOCEEDINOS AND DEBATES as many ^'rami juries as 1 liave; and 1 have seen some of these examina- tions of pulilic ret'oi'ds, anil it usually results in ahoul tliis: the lasl day Ije- lori' the grand jury adjourns, they apponit, a coinmitt(>e lo go and visit" the Treasurers olliee; anotlier committee will go down to the Clei'k and Iteeorder's ottice, to see that he has not heen derelict during the past year; another committee for I he hospital and jail, elc. These gentlemen go down and see the Treasurer and Clerk, who somelimes have a hnx of cigars, the boys are treated, and Ihey go off feelmg satisfied. .\ow. that a grand jury should be i-eijuired lo examine into the ofticial acts of Ihe public officers is one of the preposterous questions Ihat are occasionally presented to an intelligent body of men. It would require a large clerical force and a great deal of lime lo do it. It is a unilorm Ihiiig lor them to go to these offices and come hack and make a rcporl; the\- do not know whether Ihe 'I'reasurer has got fitly thousand dollars or ten Ihousand dollars, as his books would show; tliey do not know anything about that. Hence, the idea of their making an examinalion such as (mghl to he made is little short of preposterous. .Now, as to the question of a district attorney being purchased or corrupted, 1 do not understand that Ibis matter lies wholly within the jurisdiction of the prosecuting attorney. 1 undersland that any citizen of this state, or this county, may lodge information against any other man and have him brought to justice for commilling a crime. And the expense entailed upon the stale or territory IS a question of grave consideration. \ou have sixteen men empanelled to meet at the beginning of a term of court, and there are witnesses brought here, summoned to the county seat from all over the territory, in some cases, to await the action of this grand jury; and. in many in- stances, those witnesses are kept there for days before they are brought to give their evidence — which, liy the way. is I'vidence that would not be received in a court of justice; and many times grand juries have had to tielay from day to day to send all over the county to got witnesses upon somi' new case that has just heen brought in the last few days of tlieir session; and 1 say, therefore, that the objections to that part of the system which the gentleman advocates do not seem, in my opinion, to have such weight as bearing upon this question. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, in order to expedite the consideration of this subject, I move you, sir. with the consent of the Convention, that Ihe amiMidment, together with the original section, be referred to Ihe Judiciary Committee, wilh instructions to report upon it, and to report a substitute if they deem it necessary. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 hope Ihat molion will nol prevail. We have got the question before us now, and 1 think il is the time to dispose of it. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. I rise to a point of order: 1 do not know by what authority a Committee of the Whole can refer a matter to Ihe judiciary Committee, or any other Committee. The Chairman: The Chair was about lo state to the gentleman from .Missoula, that he is of the opinion that the point of order made by the gentleman from Silver Bow is well taken. Certainly this Commillee could not refer any business to any Committee, but it could mak(> its report and recommend il to Ihe Coiivenlion, and then the (lonvention could refer it. .Mr. Bickford, of Missoula; II Ihe Chair will pi'rmit me. 1 wdl change the wording of my motion, and move you. sir. thai when lhi> Comnnllee arise it report this Section K back, logelher wilh the amendmeiit offered with the recommendation that it hi" referred to the .ludiciay Commillee. The molion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. .Middlelon. of Cusler: .Mr. Chairman, this, probably, is as impnrl ant a queslion as will probably come helore this Conxention. I am in favor of haxiiig this mailer referred, for Ihe purpose of Inning lliis Sfction properly drafted, l-'rom Ihe reading (d' Ihe ameiidmeiil as pro- posed by Ihe gentleman from Silver Bow. and tli(> substitute thai was offered, I am unable lo underslaml just how il reads and wlial il means. J-lul it occurs lo me I hat, before Ihat reference is made, the ex|iression of the Commiltee of the W lioh^ shoulil be ascertained, so thai the .ludiciary Commillee in pre|iariii^; a sulislilule loi' Section S. if tiiey miglil see co.Nsrrn rio.NAi. r,(».\\i:.\ii().\ is,s;i lo;! tit to do so. would know wlietlior or not Uic Convention were in ra\iii- nl aliolisliin;-' tlie yrand jury systfni enlu'ely. So tar as I am ciinciM'uiMl. I lioartily I'onmir willi ail ttiat lias been said by the f^enlleman from Silver IHow. Mr. Clark. So tar as the matter of prox iding- thai thi' grand jury may be impanelled in the iliseretion of the districl judge is concerned, the history id (he grand jury system in the Stale oT Wisconsin demon- strates that that power praidically amounts to nothing and is not exer- cised. The constitution of the Stale of Wisconsin was amended in 1871, abolishing the gcand jury system. The legislature at its ne.xl session prepared a statute on the matter of information that is full and complete. The district judges under lliat law have the power and aulhorily to impanel a grand jury when they deem it necessary. But there has never been a grand jury impanelled in that state since the adoption of that amend- ment to the constitution except one. That exception was at the time the .Newhall House in .Milwaukee burned down, where there were several lives lost and culpable negligence charged as In the cause of the fire. A grand jury was impanelled at that time upon the order of the district judge, deeming d a matter of the greatest impoi'lance. ot the ablest and best men that could be fdund in the city of .Milwaukee.- That grand jury sat for several days and practically accomplished nothing. They found no indictments against any one. That is the only instance in eighteen years, under tlie Wisconsin slalute and constitution, where the judges have the power to impanel a grand jury, that it has been exercised. So that I believe it would be i:iio enough for us to pro\ide in this Constitu- tion for Its relegation to the past, where it properly belongs. But it occurs to me that we should iii some way or other ascertain the sentiment of the Committee of the W bole, before the I'eference. as contemplated by this molion. IS inadt'. .Mr. .Joy. of Park: .Mr. Chairman. It seems In me that il is too im- portant a question to be decideil off-liand. 1 do not think we have, any id us, considered it thoroughly enough. 'J'his question has been agitated lor several years by Ihe ablest men in this country, and senlimeni with regard to it is divided. .\ow. 1 ha\e listened very altentnely to the remarks of Ihe gentleman from Silver Bow, .Mr. Clark, and I fail lo see Ihat Ihe argument which he presents would in any way help us out UEBATES t;iaiiii .jury ol' live or seven or nine men may lie inipuni'lli'd at an> linii' lo mv(\stigate tlie county olt'ices and to take the responsiljility ot these inilietnients whenever it may be deemed advisaijle hy the district judge. .Mr. Clark, of iSilver Bow: 1 desiix" just simply to say a word ot expla nation as to my position. 1 believe that 1 stated tiiat these proceedings before a grand jury were ex parte — tlial they were inquisitorial. 11 is a sort of 8tar (chamber proceeding, where a man has no chance on Earth to defend himself. He cannot know (>ven when they are proceeding against him; wliereas, if the information be alleged againsi a man, and lie be firougtit into a court of justice, it is an opfii (•(lurl. He can bring his witnesses there, and he may delend himsell, and ri'innve, tliereby, llie cloud that might tie liovering over Ins lair name and reputation. I'liey are entirely different i)rni)ijsUions. Uiie is a secret iiuiuisition, in wliicti men called by the stall' are deliberating upon a mans acl. withoul Ins knowledge, perhaps, awl, as I said, they may be intent upon blackening that mans cnaracter for some personal consideration, and lie is not al- lowed to bring his witnesses there to defend liim. It is entirely different. Mr. Joy, of l-'ark: 1 wnuld like lo suggest, that under the laws of this territory at tlie present time, and as they have been for years, the grand jury has had I he right to require the witnesses for the defend- ant, and to notily the defendant himself to come before the grand jury; and whenever in any case an indictment is not found, it never docs come to liglit, so the mans name is not injured very much: and if there IS an indictment found, he then has an opportunity to bring forward his witnesses and show that he is innocent of any charge whatever. 1 do not see that the fact that it is an ex parte proceeding cuts any figure in the case whatever, if there is no indictmeni found, tlie man is not injured very much, t'hi' grand jury is under oath iml lo divulge any- thing of what transpires in the grand jui'y room, and no one is likely lo talk of what transpires in the session (if the grand jury. If the l-'arty cliarged is an innocenl man, he is not injured to any great extenl. If he is not guilty, lie comes into court, has compulsory process for obtaining witnesses, and if any wrong has been done him he lias every (ipportunity fo vindicate himself and his honor. Mr. Eaton, of I'ark: With reference to a single point. There seems to be some little difference of opinion as to just what line of procedure may be indulged in in a grand jury room. The gentleman who last spoke, for instance, says it is (|uite possible, and even proper, for a grand jury to investigate the defendant's side of the case— lo bring in his witnesses, or even the derendani himself. With reference lo that single point I am disposeil to take exception, for this reason: As a mem- ber of a grand jury, 1 distinctly remember being charged by a judge, that it was higlily imriroper to call m witnesses for the defendant at all. and absolutely inipniper to have anything to tlo pertaining to even a suggestion of "bringing in ttie defendant himself. That was charged by the judge upon tlie bench. So much for that single fealure. And with regard to the general feature, 1 only want to add a word, that 1 believe the grand jury system is an absolute inquisition, in that an in- dictment brouglit against a man, no matter how innocent he may be. sticks to him and clings to him, a stain upon his fair name forever; anil that it is quite possible for a grand jury to bring an indictment against a person upon such evidence, that not one syllable will even bo per- mitted t« be uttered in the court room when the trial of the case comes up. 1 am opposed to the whole sysliMii on principle. Mr. Collins, of (Jascade: Mr. Chairman, to bring this nialter clearly before the Committee. I move to amend the motion by adding "with instructions lo report a motion which shall abolish llie uraiid jury sys- tem" The Chau-man: The gentleman I nun Missoula movt>s that Section 8, with the substitute offered by the L:enlleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Jiixon' be referred to the Judiciary Ccunmittee. Now, the gentleman from Cascade desires to add to that liiolion the words, "with instructions to report a section abolishing the grand jury system." The Chair will treat this motion of the gentleman trom .Missoula aiul Itie motion of the gentleman from Cascade as one motion. .Mr. Craven, of Lewis ^ Clark: .Mr. Chairman. 1 Iriisl Ibis amendment will not prevail. This matter of Ihe grand jury system is one of the im- portant things for this Convention to settle. I do not wish tliis question to go before tlii' Coniinlllee on Juiliciary in any way cni'lalled oi- bound CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 i;):j up liy ;iiiy \(iU' that wo may imw take upon it. I want tliat Coiuniittee 1(1 art iMitiroly Irco in [\iv matter: not to be under any instructions or to draw any inlerenee as to what the opinion of this Committee may now he; ami give us all plenty' of time, so that the matter may be tlioroughly Ciiseussed and looked into before any inference of that kind be drawn Ironi the present vote. .\lr. .Marshall, of .Missoula: Mr. Chairman, 1 desire to suggest that, according to my opinion, no prosecution for a criminal offense will be. or can be (■(unmenced without an c.x parte and inquisitorial examina- tion. .\iid il seems to me that the question really now is as to whether tlial examination shall be made by a grand jury, or shall be made ex parte, when the aftula\its are filed before the magistrate and a warrant for the ilflendant is applied for. Now the gentlemen take a very dif- ferent view of the institution of the grand jury from what our fathers did at the time of the adoption of the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution of the United States, as originally reported by the Convention in 1787, had nothing in it about a grand jury; but the .•~lates. when they came to ratify that Constitution, proposed some seven or eight amendments that they considered important, made to jneserve the rights of the people against the oppression of officers and of the government; and among them was the institution of the grand jury; and some of the slates went so far as to propose that the ratification i'\' the Constitution of the United St-ates should be conditioned upon the adoption of this amendment. Very many came to the conclusion, finally, that they could not make that sort of ratification without endangering the Constitution, but in their state conventions, as I un- derstand it. proposed these amendments to the Congress of the United States, and the first Congress submitted them to the states, and they were adopted. The grand jury system as presented to us in the Con- >fitution of the t nited States, in Article 5 of the Amendments, in con- nection with other great rights of the people, says:, "No person shall be liekl to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless under presentment or indictment of the grand jury, except in cases arising in the land and naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger, nor shall any person be subjected for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb: nor shall be comiielled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor to be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law," etc. If was considered then that the grand jury system was a safe- guard— a protection of the rights of the people against the power of public officers, of the public generally, and of the government: and it was in- serted in the t:ons(itution for tliat purpose. 1 have always believed that it had that effect to it — that men summoned from the different parts of the country, common citizens of the country, not sworn officers of the law. not prejudiced and bound to believe a man is guilty when he is charged, but the common people of the country: that the rights of the citizen are more clearly protected when it says that he shall not be prosecuted unless tw-elve of these common citizens of the country, sum- moned from different parts of the country, have heard the evidence — ex parte, if you choose, and inquisitorial, and all that — shall have prob- able cause to believe that man is guilty and ought to be prosecuted. And I believe the rights of the citizens are more clearly protected by the grand jury than if left to any officer to issue a warrant for his arrest. And so far as the stain is concerned, the indictment of the grand jury is only the charge upon which the warrant issues. That charge must al- ways be made. The evidence is there to warrant its issue. The charac- ter of the man is as much hurt whether it is issued upon the indictment of the gi-and jury, or upon affidavits of citizens generally, or any officer. 1 believe myself that the grand jury was intended, and has always been considered, as a protection of the rights of the citizen. I believe it has that effect to it. But that is not the only benefit of it. What is everybody's business is nobody's business. The grand jury, generally .-^elected from different parts of the county and sworn to diligently inquire into the evidence and breeches of the law committed, is the bod>' of the county. It is their special duty to inquire into it. and they are sworn to do it: and very few indictments probably could be found in any county that would not permit these inquisitorial investigations. But wtien it is everybody's business, no citizen wants to be a common informer, and generally no citizen will be an informer unless he feels himself in- 106 l'U(»i:i;KI)I.N(iS AM) DEBATES jured, and prol)ably louls malicious against the parly against wlmni lir is going to nilorin. And it seems to ine, not only lor tlie priitet-tHin of ttie citizen, but for tlie pi'oleetion of ttit? counlry, and tlie pumstiment of offenses, that the grand jury is a good tiling. And I do not believe with the gentleman from Custer that il is a relie of tin' barbarous ages. It was required by our forefathers to be put in the Constitution of the United States, because they believed it was a protection to the citizen. That is what it was done for. I believe that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Dixon ' is a good one. 11 is not necessary, probably, that every offense should be prosecuted by indictment; but let it be prosecuted by indictment, or, before (he man is held to answer in the circuit court, let it be examined or innuir(>d into. I believe that is the proposition of the gentleman from Silver Bow — that the district courts liave the right to summon grand .juries. Let them inquire into offenses in the county which have not been inquired into, and let the district court summons a grand jury when it is necessary from his knowledge of what is going on in the county; and let a i)arty be prosecuted, and only prosecuted, either when he is indicted by the grand jury, or after a fair examination before a tribunal of the country. And I shall, so far as 1 am concerned, support the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: 1 move, Mr. Chairman. Iliat when the Committee arise, they report progress, and ask for more time, and that we do now arise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and a vote being taken the same was carried. IN CO.WE.NTIO.X President Clai'k in the Chair. Mr. Eaton, of Park: I move to take a recess until 2 o'clock. Mr. Goddard, of Vellowslone: I move that when this Convention ad- journ, it adjourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. The President: Before the motion to adjourn is put, the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole will be received. Mr. Callaway, of Madison (Cliairman of the Committee of the Whole ; Mr. Chairman, I beg leave (o report that the Committee of the Whole have been in session on the consideration of Genei'al File No. I, and thev I'tport progress, and ask leave to sit again. 'Mr. Ivennedy, of Missoula: 1 mtne that the report of Ihe Committee be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was carried. Mr. Eaton, of Park; Mr. President, 1 now renew my motion. The Chair: The question now is upon the motion of the gentle- man to take a I'ecess until 2 o'clock. Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: I would like to ask leave of absence for this afternoon and to-morrow, Saturday. The Pi'esidentr If there be no objectnui tlie gentleman will be granted leave of absence. Mr. Goddard, of ■Yellowstone: I move an amendment to the moluni to lake a recess, that we now adjourn until to-morrow morning, at 10 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was lost. The Chair then put the question on Ihe motion to take a recess nnlil 2 o'clock, and the same was carried. Itecess. 2 o'clock p. m. Convention called to order by Ihe President. ■ The Clerk called the roll. The President: Upon taking a recess the Convention was engageil in the consideratiim of General Orders. Unless it be desired by the mem- bers of tlie Convention to take up the regular order of business we will proceed with the consideration of General Orders. .Mr. Stapleton. of Silver Bow: Before going into Commillee of the Whole, .Mr. President. I ask liNive of ahsence iiiilil Monday. CONSTITUTIO.NAL CONVEXTIO.X ISW'.i 107 The PrnsiiionI: If there lie no olijeelioQ Ihi^ gciitli'iiiaii will lie granted leave of ahsenee until >h3nday. -Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: Mr. President. I desire a like absence. The President: The gentleman from Gallatin desires lea\e of ab- sence until .Monday: if there be no objection if will be granted. Mr. .Middlelon, of Cusfer: 1 mo\e you, .Mr. President, tliaf the Con- vention resolve itself into a (Tnmmitteo of the Whole. The motion was seconded and carried. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Callaway in (he Chair. The Committee was called to order by the Chair. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, the question, as I under- stand it, now is upon the motion to defer the matter of the abolition of the grand jury system, and the different amendments thereto, to the Judiciary Committee for report to the Convention. It seems to me in regard to that matter that it is a matter upon which the Committee has some discretion, and I think we might as well consider it now while before us instead of delaying it by a reference to the Committee. I desire to say a word, and I shall not fake up but, a very few minutes. There seems, as 1 understand it, to be a general conviction that the grand jury system as at present, with the expenses that are attached to it — the necessary expenses in the matter of proceedings by indictment in every case, should be remedied: but exactly how that is to be done is a question upon which members differ. Now, in regard to this matter of abolishing the grand jury entirely, it is a very radical proposition. So far as I know, and I think I am correct in making the statement, there is not a state in the Union that has yet abolished entirely the grand jury system: and when we undertake to do that we are taking a step, which, although in the direction of reform, is one that is entirely too radical: and we are undertaking an experiment that I, for one, cannot countenance. The institution of the grand jury is a very old one. Its proceedings. th(> law relating to it and to indictments, is well settled and understood. If we throw that aside entirely— if we undertake to sub- stitute an entirely new system for it, we are treading, I think, upon rather dangerous ground. Now, the .substitute which I have introduced here is intended to, and I think does, apply to the subject in about this way. We do not abolish the grand jury entirely, but we reduce it largely in number, from sixteen men, as at present, of whom twelve must concur to find an indictment, to seven, as proposed here. However, as the matter of numbers is not important — it might be thought better to make it nine, of whom seven may concur: but that is simply a matter of choice. Now, it is proposed to retain this grand jury, but to make it necessary that crime should be prosecuted as a general thing by in- dictment. It is proposed here that crimes in the district court — criminal offenses — shall be prosecuted by information in two classes of cases: one is w-here there has been an examination and committment by a magistrate, and another is by leave of Court given for that purpose. So that this does not give any one county attorney, or any other person, the right to institute a prosecution in the district court: but it does, without the formality and dilatoriness of the proceedings by grand jury, after examination and committment by a magistrate, give the right to proceed by information, or. on the other hand, by leave of coiu't. which would apply in that class of cases, for instance, while the court is in session, where it would seem superfluous, but where the court, being satisfied that a crime has been committed for which an information should be filed, shou'd direct such imoi'matinn to be filed and no further proceed- ings would be required. But there may be cases arise, in times of public excitement, where, from a failure of the district attorney or any other officers entrusted with the administration of the law, attempts may be made to shield parties from indictment, or, rather, from proceedings in criminal cases w-here the management and accounts of officers should bo investigated and looked into criminally: that, as has been said here, not being the business of any one in particular could be overlooked and neglected. For that class of cases, and to keep a guard and check over the district attorney, or any other officer, and see that he performs I(»8 I'HOCKKDI.NdS AM) DKHATF.S Ills duty, and lo pnablo tlip grand jury wliini it may be necessary to Idok into cases tliat thoy tiavi- ovcrlnnkPd, or to which public alfontion has not tieon drawn suflicicntly, or which there is not a disposition to prosecute, although they should be prosecuted, then a gi'and jury is summoned, and it may indict in any case. It is not reslramed by the fact that thei-e must have been tirst an examination and commitment by a magistrate; it will require no leave of court for them to proceed, hut they may go on at once, and have the power to indict the district attorney, or the judge upon the bench, and thus exercise a supervisory power over these other nfiicers, and see that as far as possible, none shall escape who shall violate the criminal law. .\ow that is the (ibject of tliis provision. We retain the grand jury because we know the course of pi'ocedure in that body, and the indictment, and all matters relating to the practice, are settled by law; and we only call it when, in tiie judgment of the court, it is necessary. It is not a prerequisite to the lirosecution of public offenses; it isonly kept there for the purpose of calling them together whenever, in the opinion of the court, it may he necessary: and it certainly seems to me to be a necessary provision to retain. If it is not needed, as very likely it will not be more than once in one or two years perhaps, it will not cost anything. If it is needed, it will be needed, and in some cases needed very badly, and if there is no provision for it there will be no way of getting at it. The provision which I have introduced here, except in relation to the size of the grand jury, which I hav-e reduced here because it seems to me really that nine men 01' seven men are just as good as sixteen men — but, with the exception nf that and with the exception of the provision which il would seem now better to provide for in relation to one or two other matters — with those exceptions the provision is taken exactly from the constitu- tion of California; and, as I said before, if we undertake to abolish the grand jury, we are trying an experiment that has not as yet been tried in any state of the Union. California. U'isconsm, and se^el■al other slates — I do not know exactly how many — have adopted substantially the lorm which it is now proposed to insert here; but they have never gone to the extent of abolishing the grand jury; and if il be true, as the gentleman from Custer says, that it is the history of Wisconsin that a grand jury has never been called although the constitution author- izes it. it seems to me that that would be a strong argument in re- taining this provision of the grand jury, although it may ne\er, dt possibly very seldom, be called into requisition. With these exception.s, reducing the number of the grand jury and providing for information to l>e filed by the court as well as by a magistrate, the proposition off(>red here is taken almost literally from that of California. Now. I belie\e. for I do not wish to discuss this matter further — but T believe, in re- gard to these propositions of reform, while there are a great many reforms needed and while there are a great many that can be made, if you undertake a radical reform it should be done carefully and circum- spectfully. I much prefer, so far as I know anything about the matter, to take experience that has been acquired by action under certain laws or cerlain provisions of the constitution, without branching out wildlj' into some new and entirely different scheme that has never been tried before. And while I believe, as I said, that it is useless lo require a grand jury to find an indictment in order lo prosecute for crime, still I think there are cases where the intervention of the grand jury will he required; and if the institution is left in such a shape, so reduced in iiuniher and with no requirements necessary, certainly it seems to me to be a great deal better lo retain that institution than to do away with it nitogether and branch out altogether into a system that no stat(> has yet undertaken lo try (Applause). Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: I think that, in the main. I am in favor of the substitute embraced in Mr. Dixon's motion. I ((Mtaiiily am in fa\or of It. I desire simply to reply to tlie arguments of the gentleman from .Missoula "^Mr. Marshall^. I believe that the id(>a he conveyed was, that, on account of Amendment No. V lo the Onisljtulion of the United States, wherein it says that "no one shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless under presentment or indictment of a grand jury," etc., that that was apiilicable to all the states and terri- tories, and that thereby we are pi'ohibited from incorporating such a provision in our state constitution; at least, if that was not the idea con- i.eyed. that it was a precedent lor us In estahlish. Now. as a matter of CONSTITrTlo.XAI. cn WKxrioN |s,si» 100 Uii'l, that provision lias been incorpoiali'il in a great many of llie slates of this Union. It lias lieen incurporated in the constitution of Arlvan- sas, in the constitution of Gonneetieut, in the constitutions of Iowa, Louisiana, .Minnesota, .Missouri, New Voi'lv, (Jhio, Tennessee, West Vir- ginia and sonic otiiers: and it is incorporated there just as it is in tlie Constitution of the United States, and. of course, it would be impossible to abolish tins grand jury system. But ttiere are quite a number of the states where there are different provisions; and, as Mr. Dixon has -said, there is not a state in the Union where the grand jury system has been abo.lislicd. In five of the states, that is, in Pennsylvania, Delaware, J\entucky, Alabama and Mississippi, it is provided that no person shall be proceeded against criminally by information. In Wisconsin the pro- vision is that no person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense without due process of law. That is the provision in the Constitution of the United States, and under that provision, I understood from the gentleman from Custer, that a grand jury has never been called. Now the California provision is that offenses may be prosecuted by indictment or intormation after examination and committment by a magistrate. In some stales the constitution gives the legislature power and authority to aliolish the grand jury system, and that is the case W'ith Indiana, Illinois, ■ Iowa. .Nebraska. Oregon and Colorado. And now I come to the question which the gentleman raises in regard to this being binding — this provision of the Constitution of the United States being binding on us, and that we cannot incorporate it here. That has been decided in a number ol cases — two cases in the United States courts, and several cases in the state courts — that the provision of the Federal Constitution as to pros- ecutions by indictment or presentment to the grand jury has been held lo apply only to offenses against the United States, and not to offenses against the individual states; and that has been decided, as I said, in the case of Missouri vs. Lewis, 101 United States, 22, and in the case of Hurtalo vs. California, 110 United States. 516. It has been decided in a case in Indiana; in two cases in California; in one case in Wisconsin; in one case in Kansas; and in one case in Mississippi. So that the objection of the gentleman from Missoula, that we cannot incorporate such a pro- vision, has been decided by the highest courts of this land, and it is held that we have the right, if we see fit; but no state in the Union lias seen fit as yet to do more than the State of California. That comes nearer abolishing it than any of them, but it leaves it so that a grand jury may be called in each county once a year. As a matter of fact that virtually abolishes it, because it is seldom, if ever, called: and that is just what we desire to do here. There may arise oases when it v^-ill be necessary, and when nearly everybody will be anxious that this grand jury should be invoked. Now, this system does away with the objections of the gentleman from Silver Bow {.Mr. Clark\ 1 agree with him absolutely, and am very much in favor of abolishing this system as an inquisitorial proceeding — a Star (chamber, where people are in- jured, as the gentleman has said; but if there is any good in this system of the grand jury, we retain it; so that it is a compromise really between the gentlemen who are in favor of the grand jury system and those who are in favor of absolutely abolishing it. It does away with the objections of those in favor of abolishing it, and it retains all the good points, if llieri> are any, in the grand jury system. For that reason I am greatly in favor of the proposition, or tlie substitute offered by Mr. Dixon. Mr. Middleton then called for the reading of the substitute again, and the Clerk read same. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Now, Mr. Chairman, while the gentleman Irom Silver Bow fMr. Dixon i may be correct in the position which he has assumed, I think his reasons are a little bit "fishy"; and I will state here that I do not believe that there is the slightest danger of a district attorney, who must be a member of the lei;al profession, and is pre- sumed to be a man of honor, who is elected to that office and lakes his oath of office to discharge his duties with fidelity, the same as a district judge does — I do not believe there is any danger of his being corrupted or of failing to do his duty, his whole duty, in the prosecution of criminals. And, as one of the district attorneys, duly elected by the people, I wish tfi say, that if that is intended as an aspersion upon those gentlemen as a class, or upon any one of them individually, I stand here to repel it: and while I do not profess to be more honest and conscientious than my neighbors, 1 do assert and maintain that there is not a man on the 110 I'HOCEEDINGS AND DKHATES heiich. or at I he bar, iii any county of this I'orritory. who endeavors to administer the law more laithlully tlian 1 do. Now let us come down to the practical part of it. There was a good deal said here this afternoon about the gi-and juries' operations. It is, and always has been, an inquisitorial body of the strictest kind, acting in secret, and so de- signed to act ai I hat way, with(jul assuming the responsiliility of its acts, be- cause they were done in secret. It was provided that the grand jury should be org;anized and it should be a strictly inquisitorial body, doing its work in secret; and its oath says that none of its secrets should be disclosed. I trust that system under the enlightenment and advancing civilization of this period of the Nineteenth Century, when every man is supposed to be independent and when every man is allowed to assert his rights under the Constitution, will wholly disappear. If any man is offended — if he is injured — if he sees an offense committed, he has a right to go before a committing magistrate, a justice of the peace, or any other authorized magistrate, and make complaint against the offender, and have him brought up there, and, if probable cause appears, he is held to answer, where? To the inquisitorial body of the grand jury? No: but to the court itself; thereby dispensing with the necessity of grand Juries, which have entailed such enormous expenses and such debts upon our counties. What is there lo prevent a man from going out here and proposing a charge against his derelict neighbor who has assaulted his wife or children, who has assaulled an honest man in broad day- light, and accusing him of the crime? The magistrate who sits there, clothed with all the panoply ol his office, under the sand ion of his oath, after hearing bolh sides, and after having provided the accused with an attorney, as he is bound to do under the law as it now exists, finds the man guilty and holds him for the crime. Is it necessary then, in order to ascertain whether that committing magistrate has done his duty, and incur the further expense of a grand jury? By no means. Let the ac- cused go up and face the court like a man, and, if he is innocent, prove his innocence. Now there was something said this morning about this dangerous man having power to nolle the indictment in case he was a corrupt man. There is nothing of the kind here. It has been the custom here, through the wisdom of the man who founded the law, that no indictment shall be nolle prossed except on order of the court, upon ground stated. Apply that ground lo the preliminary examination of the magistrate, before whom the man is to answer, and you have all the safe-guards. Now one of the arguments that have been used here in favor of this municipality of districts, is that in consequence of gelling rid of the probate courts — in consequence of getting rid of the clerks of the probate courts and this burdensome grand jury system — we would ac- tually reduce the expense of running our courts here — one in each coun- ty at a less expense than we have been running them heretofore, I believe that is true, but I do not believe there is any necessity of hold- ing on to this fossilized, defunct end of an old system, for fear of cutting loose and making a new departure. We are making a new departure. We are starting out here, leaving the swaddling clothes of territorial government and territorial vassalage behind us, prepared in the full panoply of manhood to start out. and run a slate upon patriotic, lawful and safe principles, without anything to drag us back to the imbecility of the past. Now I think my friend — Mr. Dixon — who is one of the finest lawyers in this country, one of the most eloquent of the gentlemen who adorn this country, and a gentleman of whom I feel proud as a citizen and as a professional brother — I think he has seen something that is frightening him from (ho true course of political consistency here, and wants to hang on to this old relic that we want to get rid of on the ground of the speedy administration of justice and upon the ground of political economy. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. Chaii'man. upon a careful con- sideration of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, I am disposed to adhere lo that. There was one little proposition ad- \anced by the gentleman who last addressed this Convention, the entire details and practical effects of which ho has perhaps lost sight of: tliat is to say, that if we do away with the system of grand juries entirely, and leave it to the prosecuting officer to prosecule all cases when' a coiiimifling magistrate has bound the pai'ty over to appear before the district court, I regard il as a very unsafe iirocediire indeed — very un- safe. I have had occasion lo notice those things \'cry critically and care- coN:^ri'rrTio\AL convention issn in 1ully. 11' you adopt a rule making: it iurumlxMit upon tlie prosecuting altornoy to prosecute in tlie district courts all parties bound over by a conimitlinK uiagisli'ale. llien you would entail almost as much useless expenses upon (bo respective counties and districts in Montana as you would by the system ot grand juries; because it is a well known fact to those who have observed, that nntwitlislnndinfr thai the testimony on either side may l)e submitted to the averasje committing magistrate, with all deference to their judgment and the panoply of their official position and oath, with all due deference to (bat. it is patent that, in a very large majority of the cases in which they bind the parties over, they mistake the case entirely; because they bind parties over to appear before a grand jury when any good lawyer examining the facts in the case would see the utter impossibility of reaching a conviction; and that thing occurs in pei'baps half the cases which they bind over. Then a s\stem which requires a prosecuting attorney to appear in the district court and summon all the witnesses on either side of that case, and sub- ject the county to the expense of it, would entail an enormous and un- necessary expense: besides that, it would be the very thing exactly that we desire to avoid, and that is to harass and annoy men who are liot guilty of the charge against them; that is one of the cases that we desire to avoid as much as wi- possibly can — to avoid subjecting innocent parties. or even if they are guilty, where there is not sufficient evidence to ivach a conviction — In avoid the expense of a prosecution, and to avoid harassing them with a prosecution. Now then, I say that if we adopt any rule that will make it incumbent upon the prosecuting attorney to pros- ecute in the district court every man who is bound over by a com- mitting magistrate — then I say, in order to shun one evil we are jumping into a greater one. or as great. Now it seems to me that what is con- templated by the substitute provided for that, exactly — that is. the pros- ecuting attorney may prosecute parties who are committed by a commit- ting magistrate, or. where they are not committed by the committing magistrate: in either case it leaves it discretionary with him. subject to such legislation as may be prescribed. It is well known, too, that it will not do to rest these prosecutions only on cases where a committing mag- istrate has bound the parties over, because it is a well known fact that there are a large class of cases that never reach a committing magis- trate or justice of the peace, and yet the public interests demand tliey should be prosecuted. Therefore, I say it is the better policy to leave ail these matters in the sound discretion of the prosecuting attorney, who is the best judge of the character of the case, and who knows whether the party can be brought to a successful conviction. Leave it to his discretion entirely upon that, who is the best judge of all those proposi- tions. That is what this substitute contemplates, as I understand it. Then, in order to meet a class of cases — with all deference to the class of men who may be elected prosecuting attorneys to guard against im- proper influences being brought to bear upon time-serving men — be- cavise it will not always do to follow out the theory, for the theory and the practice of it. we are taught, are two separate and distinct things, and practice will not always carry out these things — the prosecution is that we are always going to have prosecutiong attorneys who will come up to the mark, who are good lawyers, and who will do exactly what is right without fear, favor or affection; but. as a matter of practice, we know that we cannot always get such men. and we should guard against the possibility of such calamities as that. Then I say. let us adopt a system in our Constitution by which we can steer clear" of these evils, and it will be a protection to prosecuting attorneys as well; it will certainly be most gratifying to them to know that, being invested and clothed with this sole power, there is a tribunal standing behind them, so that they can say to men who think they have refused to prosecute men that they think should be prosecuted — they have something to fall back upon, and they can say. "gentlemen, if you tliink this man for any reason should be prosecuted against my judgment, here is a tribunal and the case can be submitted to that tribunal." It is a shield and a pro- lection to prosecuting attorneys, and it puts them in a better position to inspire the confidence of the public and to perform their duties properly. Then let us guard against these evils that may come, not predicting that they will. II is the dictate of wisdom to guard against those con- tingencies that may arise. I can forsee them as plainly as I can see the face of the presiding officer of this Committee. Experience has 112 PHO(;KKi)|.\(iS AM) DEBATES tauglil thai Ihose nion ot-cuiiyiiig olliuial positions will not always do Just what is riKht. Why sir, as an illuslralioii of Ihal, tho t^ongrnss before the last passed a law providinfr that the fees of officers should not be increased or diminished dnriii!.' the term of office. Our Legislature last winter passed a law increasing tho fees of some of I he officers. As it is understood, I presume the proper interpretation of It would be Ihat that law would only apply to those who were elected or appointed Ijefore the next general election; but in spite of all of that, my observation has been that every solitary officer had jumped in and charged the fees from the very turn loose under the new fee lull, in violation of this Act of (Congress, thereby, under our law, subjecting them to a criminal indictment. If the temptation of officers and men is sometimes loo great, human nature IS weak and they will do it. Their judgment may be warped; sometimes they will commit errors of judgment not wilfully. And I say, let us, in these matters, guard against tliese things, and place a protection over prosecuting officers, and place it beyond the power of men to go to ex- tremes. Who has not seen instances where communities have vibrated to extremes against officers who are faithfully trying to discharge tlieir duties? Who has not seen the public clamor, or rumfirs, or misunder- standings of facts of this Ihing, that and the other, accuse men wrongfully of these things; and I can forsee where it is more likely to occur in cases of this character than any other; that in tliese criminal matters iL often divides itself into cliques — one party in favor of the accused, or men who should be accused, and the other against the party. Communities will divide themselves upon it; rumors will be rife; exaggerated state- ments of fact will become rife, and the public will become excited, and they will get wrong impressions of it. They will be ready to accuse a prosecuting attorney of favoring this man, that and the other for busi- ness influences, political influences, money influences, that and the other thing. It places an honest prosecuting attorney in a very unfavorable position Indeed — the man who desires to do his duty irrespective of friendship, fear, or favor — it places him in a very unfavorable position. Then I say, in order to enable this man to go fearlessly up to the work and do what is right, I say lei us have some tribunal to stand behind him. that will be a refutation of false charges and false impressions that the iniblic may gain about him as a prosecuting officer, and who can say to them, "Gentlemen, if I am wrong in my judgment about this thing, here is a tribunal standing behind me, a grand jury that may be sum- moned, and let them act upon the case, then, if they say I am wrong, I will cheerfully prosecute that case." It relieves him of responsibility in these cases, and for that reason I regard this as a very essenlial feature in our Constitution. Then it seems to me, taking all these propositions together, that the most rational and the best theory we can adopt is the one suggested by the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Dixonl as a sub- stitute for this bill. Upon mature deliberation, and the experience I liave had as a prosecuting officer, and watching these things as care- fully and closely as I have done, I say it is better all around to retain that much of what has been regarded by some gentlemen as a fossilized remnant and a relic of barbarity. The gentleman from Missoula County has used the very language that I desired to express to this Convention. He gave the fairest exposition of the grand jury system — the way a great many who laid the foundation of our government reviewed tliat thing; they considered it carefully and tlioroughly. All these things are subject- to abuse, but it seems to me that the gentlemen who took the opposite side have vibrated to something of an extreme in condemning tlie grand jury system. While I am opposed to its general use, I beliexe the state will he subserved by retaining if to the extent of the substitute that this Section 8 contemplates. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: Mr. Chairman, the only excuse I have for offering any remarks at this time is that, I think this is one of the most Important nueslions that will come before this Clonvention, and 1 have very little to add to what has been said by the gentleman who preceded me and the mover of this proposition. T can conceive instances where it would be necessary for the rights of the people, for the due execution of the criminal laws of Ihe land, that there slmuld he a grand jury behind all td' these prosecutions, or, rather, examinations before committing magislrates, or informations that may be presented by leave of the court. Now, sir, lot us suppose— and it is not, very much of a stretch of the imagination to suppose magistrates who are not familiar JOSEPH E. MARION J. F. BRAZELTOX WII^LIAM H. WATSON" WILLIAM W. DIXON- WILLIAM T. FIELD DAVID G. BROWNE WILLIAM A. CHESSMAN CONSTITUi'KlXAl. CO.NVENTrON 188 certain proceedings in the examination of criminal offenders that certainly should be kept secret. I will instance simply this matter of the Cronin murder in Chicago, where for weeks a special grand jury investigated all the charges. :\ow then, it is neces- sary before an examining magistrate, under our system of jurisprudence, tliat the examination should be open to all the world: and the criminal himself becomes cognizant of everything against him. If he finds thai it is light and he can fix it, he stands and takes the charges; but, other- wise, you will find him in Canada or some other country. There are cases of that kind that should go before the grand jury; and, as was suggested by the gentleman from Silver Bow county, there is no expense attached to this method unless the grand jury is called into requisition: and it seems to me that if they were called, say once a year, it would not be very burdensome to any county. 'I'here are — and I will repeat it — Ihere are cases where there should be Star Chamber investigations — secret investigations: otherwise the arm of the criminal law is weakened: men may escape justice; and I think, taking this all in all, that it would be dangerous to abolish all together the grand jury system. I would be willing to comtiromise and say that five should compose a grand jury; but we should liave some body that could be called to meet cases that might be evaded or might be passed over — the cases where they might not be properly investigated by the committing magistrates or the prosecuting attorneys. I say that somebody — some collection of men or grand jury — you may call it what you please: if you object to the name of grand jury, call" il some other name — but that some collection of persons in- tended to meet such exigencies as I have mentioned should be maintained in every system of government. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I desire to withdraw the motion made by myself, before a. recess, to commit this matter to the ■ludiciary Committee for report. The Chairman: The gentleman withdraws his motion. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis cS: Clarke: Mr. Chairman, the motion before the House is the proposition or motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. On that I wish to say one word and I will offer an amendment to it — or rather, a substitute for it. I will read the amendment for the in- formation of the Committee, but I will call the attention of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke to the fact — (interrupted). If the substitute is not in order — (interrupted! The (Ihairman: The first amendment was the one offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Clarke, and the next was the substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Dixon, which becomes the second amendment; and a third amendment is not in order. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: t understand the motion of the President of the Convention is the original motion. The motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Dixon, is the amendment, and this is an amendment to the amendment. .Mr. (ioddard. of Yellowstone: My understanding is that the original motion made by the gentleman from Missoula County has been withdrawn. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. Chairman, my motion to refer to the Committee on Judiciary, with instructions to reiwrt a section that would abolish the grand jury system, has probably been lost. As my motion does not seem to be before the Committee. T would like to say a word upon the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Clarke, Now, Mr. Chairman, I believe it should not be the exclusive right of the members of the bar to settle this question. We all feel proud of the Judiciary Committee of this Body; no better one could have been organ- ized or put into working order in any one of the great states of ttiis Il-i PROCEEDINGS AM) DKIIA IKS IJniiiii, anil this Convention and the peoiile of .Monlana should I'eel lii'oud ol' it: but, iiolwithstaiiding that fact., 1 idaiin that upon a question of this kind, the members of this Convention who are not meniliers of the bar are as well qualified to judge by past experience of this matter as they are. I claim that because the members of the bar are almost unanimously in favor of this proposition, they should not by their fine arguments and glib tongues convince all the balance of us that we should go with them. i\ow sir, 1 believe that aged -lawyers, and learned lawyers — men wtio have retired from the practice — men who have written text books upon legal subjects, and who have written special articles upon this subject in the great maga/ines of this country, almost unanimously agree that it would be a step In the right direction — a great reform — to abolish the grand jury, and almost abolish the petty jury. Now, if that is the case, and if in conjunction with that a half dozen or more of the great states of this Union have virtually abolished the grand jury system, and liave gotten along very well without it. then I ask why in all reason should not the State of Montana advance in the reformation of the juiiicial system of the country and also abolish it. I believe that the attorneys at law, taken as a class, are the most conservative citizens in the United States; that it is harder for a lawyer to jump out of the beaten rut, no matter how far back that rut may have originated — no matter in what times or under what circumstances it was commenced — it is harder for a lawyer lo jump out of that rut than any other class of citizens in the t'niled States. I believe, as a fact, that it is a good thing for the Uniti>d States Ihat such is the case; but upon questions that olher people can judge of, i| seems to me that the opinion of lawyers should not pre\ail. 'i'he arguments of the gentlemen who liave talked this forenoon upon Ihis queslion it seems to me are conclusive that tlii' grand jury system should be abolished, and I believe Ihat is the voice and opinion of the [)eople of Montana; Ihat opinion is voiced by almost the unanimous community in favor of the abolilion of Ihat system. 1 believe 1 have heard an expression from nearly half I he laymen of this Convention in favor of the abolilion of the grand jury system; I have heard an expression from a number of the attorneys in favor of the abolilion of that system; and I hope that, when it comes to a test, that Ihis matter will be referred to the .Judiciary Commiltee, with instructions to draw such an iron clad section as shall forever abolish it and give us in lieu of it something else. If that is the view of the Convention. 1 believe it is the propei' course to take, and 1 will say here and now Ihat when they do pa.ss upon the matter and introduce that section, 1 believe that every citizen of Montana will feel that the section is perfect, and that there is no danger of a great radical changi' or a great disruption of judicial proceedings because that section abolishing Ihe grand jury is incorporated in our Constitution. I, for one, hope that this will lie looked at from every point of view, and that the majorily of the Conven- tion will vote in favor of abolishing the system. I can conceive of no case on earth, under any circumstances, or in any country, where it requires the examination of a grand jury. It may be possible that county affairs and county boards and county proceedings may have to be exam- ined by commissions, but, if so, it can be provided for by law: but in other matters certainly, and upon a fair trial before a commilling magis- trate, or, better still, a perpetual session of the court, and a jiroduction of Ihe offender, upon liiformalion, before the Court, would tie a nioxc in the right direction, and a great reform in our present judicial sysleui. Mr. 'I'oole, of Lewis A Clarke: Mr. President. I quite agi'ee willi Hie genlleman from Cascade, that this is a matter that dO(>s not interest exclusively the lawyers in this Convention, but that it is a qu(>s(ion which closely concerns every citizen of the Territory of Montana, I am not satisfied" with the grand jury system, and believe, I Ihiiik with the majority of this (^onvenlion, that if not absolutely abolished, that such a provision should be put into the Constitution as will authorize its assembling only in case of necessity. The gentleman from Cascade says thai he cannot imagine of any case where it would lie absolutely neces- sary to call a grand jury. Take, for instanc(>, the suggestion, which was a potent one, by the pentieman from (iailaliii Counly iMudge Luce''. who suggested that where a cinnmilting magistrate should after hearing Ihe leslimon\- presenl(>d to him, decide Ihat the parly ought to be ac- quilled, and lliereution his discharge was had. Now. eviM'ybody knows Ihal comniitliu^' iiiagislrales and justices of Ihe peaci^ are si'bM-ted with- (•.o.xsrnrrio.NAi. i'.onvention 1889 iir, out i-elorciu-c to llit'ii" qualilications, Ihat is to say, they are not selecti'd witti rcforoncc to tlieir being learned in ttie law, and ttiat it frequently liappens that justices of the peare and committing magistrates discharge individuals accused of crimes wlien subse(|Uently grand juries not only indict them, tiul they are tried and convicted. Suppose we abolish the grand jury system entirely, and are remitted simply to this process. A man commits a felony: a trial is had before a justice of the peace; no jury is had; it lies within the province of the committing magistrate to determine whether that party is guilty, and the committing magistrate decides that the party is not guilty and he goes scot free. But aside from that, as was suggested by .Judge iJixon this morning, we are ac- quainted with the decisons and rules of the common law with reference to indictments, t^uppose we absolutely abolish the grand jury system, which takes with it as a matter of course, the indictment, and we have nothing left but an information. That is not a proceeding at common law. It has no significance or definition by which we are to determine what it contains, and during the period of time from which this State shall be admitted into the Union upon the proclamation of the President of the United States, up to and including the time that the legislatixi' assembly shall determine what shall constitute an information, we will be left without any remedy or process by which criminals can be brought to justice. Aside from that again, I believe, and my experience I tlunlv justifies me In the statement, that there are times, sir, of great public excitement and popular indignation, when the passions of men and of citizens are aroused, when the prosecuting attorney and the officers of the court need to be sustained, upheld and fortified by an indictment brought by a grand jury and. as was suggested, where officers them- selves, the sheriff, the constable and others in authority, shall neglect and fail to perform their duty, the fact that a grand jury can be called by the judge of the court, is a wholesome provision, and one which would operate, 1 think, properly, in forcing upon those officers the fact that there was some authority by which their acts might be brought to the attention of the court. Now this is simply a provision, such a one as exists in several of the states of the Union wliere they have seen fit not entirely to abolish the grand jury. I believe that our experience will be in keeping with that of the other states that have adopted this provision, that the grand jury system will be virtually abolished and be a dead letter but I think it quite proper, as suggested by all of the gentlemen who have advocated the retention of the grand jury system, that we keep it in reserve to meet those conditions that we cannot at this time anticipate. The Clerk was directed to read the substitute once more, and read as follows: Sec. 8. Criminal offenses of which justices" courts and municipal, and other courts inferior to the district court, have jurisdiction, shall be prosecuted ny complaint. Criminal offenses of which the district courts have jurisdiction shal be prosecuted by information, after exam- ination and commitment by a magistrate, or by leave of the court, or by indictment without such examination or commitment or without such leave of court. A grand jury shall consist of seven persons, of whom five must concur to find an indictment. A grand jury shall only be drawn and summoned when the district court judge shall, in his discretion, consider it necessary, and shall so order. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. I have no desire to take up the time of the Convention, as I expressed my views upon this sub- ject this morning, but I wish simply to say a word, and I believe I am entitled to close this debate. If I held to the principles advocated by the gentleman from Deer Lodge and the gentleman who has just ad- dressed you. from Lewis & (Marke. I should certainly be in favor, not of the .substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. but I should be in favor of the clause as reported back by the Committee on i^reamble and Bill of Rights. Their arguments have tenderl in the direction of sup- porting that proposition, and not the substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. which, as I take it. is simply a little reserve, to be held in cases of emergency if the emergency should ever arise. Now, these gentlemen are arguing upon the main proposition and not upon the substitute. 1 have no disposition, gentlemen, to cling to the memories of the past. I know we are apt to cling with veneration to those forms and customs which have the dust of time upon their brows, and while lit; I'U()(:ki;i)I.\(;s ami kkuatics 1 am willing to givo due itcuiL Io IIhisc iiiniiorlal aiu;i'.slors wlm Iraiiu'd the (^onstiluliou ul tliu Liutcii btatcs, we must bear in miiid llial tliux liNL'd 111 an age dillerenl troiii ttiis that Ihey had just emerged iroin a moiiarcliieai goveninieut and I hat we have made the progress, and a remarkable progress, id' almnsl a cenlury and we must recnileet llial Ihey Ined at a lime and iii an age when human slaxery was reeognizeil almost all over this country; at a lime wlieii a resiieelable eommunily, a peaceable, mlelligent, well educated community m .Massachusetls, di- recled llie burning of people lor wilclici'aft; and I say thai we ha\e ad\anced ti'oni lliat period, and this counlry has seen a remarkable and wondei'tui de\elopment; and why should it not in these matters which pi'ilam to the judiciary of inis country.' I have not heard a single argument advanced by these geuUemeii that is, in my mind, conclusive Ihat this dark blotch upon American civilization should lje retained in the judiciary of this country. If we were to narrow down I he informa- tion t oiitgrowlli and result of Magna Charta, that great charter which was wrested by the barons of England from Ihe king, in the 12lli or I3tli century, and was the first mortal blow to the idea of the di\ine right ol kings, and was the entering wedge which has grown and spread and resulted in the freedom which we enjoy here. I am not one who advo- cates Ihat tlie old ways are the best ways because of th(Mr age; but I liclicM' all established usage should he carefully weighed and considereixon. anil a division bring calli'd foi'. Hie snhstitiile was d(M-lai'ei| ciirrn^d liy a \o|e (d' WA to 10. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVEXTION 188'J 117 Mr. Carpenter, ol' Lewis & Clarke: .Now. Mr. Cliairman. I oiler tlie lollovving: The Clerk reatl as lollows: .\iiieiid Section 8 so as to read as lollows: ".No person shall lor li'lony be proeoedeil against crnmnally otherwise than by nidietment or uirorination. e.xeepl ni eases arisnig in the land or naval lurees, or in the nulitui when iu actual service ni the times of war or public danger. In all other cases offenses shall be prosecuted by information or com- plaint." .Mr. Carpenter: .\lr. Chairman, 1 offer that resiolulitDii. which is \ ery much like the one adopted and very much like Section 8 as re- porled by the Coininittee; but in that proposition all legislation is stricken ouL I think, in the bill of rights, we (lUght to adhere strictly to certain principles, and discard all legislation that may be attempted to be inter- jected. The complaint principally made against the Constitution pro- posed four years aao was that there was too mucli legislation in it. We are proceeding in a way that w-ill add to our Constitution to be adopted this fall perhaps a dozen pages more of legislation than the proiiosed Constitution of four years ago contained. I am entirely opposed to abolishing the grand jury system. It has come down to us for cen- turies as a shield and protection to the innocent, and the defense of the poor and weak against the strong and the rich and the powerful, and it is needed for that purposi» as much in Montana today as it was in England four hundred years ago. But, at the same time, t.liere is, 1 believe, among many, a feeling that proceedings by information would be preferable. This leaves it with the legislature to provide as it may see fit for criminal prosecutions by information in certain cases, and perhaps, if public sentiment should become so strong in favor of it as to warrant it, in all cases. It is very much, as I said, like Section 8, discarding the legislation. The complaints which I have heard have been ten times more pronounced against trial by petty jury than the inquisitions by grand juries. For these reasons, and because it is simple and accomplishes what I believe to be the sentiment of many with whom 1 have conversed in this Convention, 1 offer this proposition. The motion was seconded. I'he Chairman: I will state to the gentleman that, by the action of the Committee upon the substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, it takes the place of Section 8, and this would be an amendment to Section 8. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: This is now to amend Section 8 — not the original one, but the one as adopted. .Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, it sti-ikes me that this is a subsdtute that does away with the force of Section 8 as it now stands, and which seems to have met the sense of the Convention. I do not believe in leaving this matter to the legislature; I belie\e in providing for it here. That does not abolish the grand jury, nor does it in any way prevent the numerous objections to the grand jury. Now, I am in favor of settling this matter here. Another thing that occurs to me in the consideration of such a section is that it pro\ ides tliat offenses shall only be prosecuted by indictment. Now it might be held with very good reason as a matter of law, that an indictment would necessarily ha^■e to follow the indictment under common law, and that the grand jury would have to consist of that numlier, and that the proceedings in every case must go back to the pro- ci'edmgs that were legally necessary in a grand jury. I am not. as I said before, in favor of greatly modifying this grand jury system. It seems to me, however, a matter that should be decided here. 1 am opposed my- self to pulling any legislation m the Conslitulion, but this is a matter that ought not to be left in such a shape thai it can be changed from time to lime by different sessions of Ihi' legislature. -Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clark: Mr. (;hairinan, I would say just one word. I think that goes almost as far as any constitutional provision you can find. If by degrees the legislature adopt the system of prose- cution by informtion, and it works well, there will be no reason for proceeding further with the grand jury system. If we insert it in the Constitution they cannot change the system, but if we leave it to them for Ihem to adopt, and legislate in regard to it as they think projier — if the system of prosecution by information works well, then it can certainlv be continued: If it works badly, then it can be discarded; hut ilH I'UOCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES until llioy fin ijrocccil by iiiforinnlinn llir inMisiMMitimis slmnlil lie by iiiilictment. umlcr (hat, section. Thp (Uiaii' tlicn imt tlie motion on (he ameiidmcnt oClfrcii by Mr. Carpenter, and tlio sain(^ was dectared lost. Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clark: 1 would like t(» offer an amendment to Section 8, to increase the number of jurymen from seven to nine, making seven the necessary number to find an indictment. Mr. Coliins, of Cascade: I move to amend by making it five. The Chairman: The gentieman moves to amend Section 8 by in- ci'easing the grand jury from seven to nine. This is seconded. The gentleman from Cascade moves to amend by making it five in place of sev- en. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: My amendment is that it shall consist of five jier'sons, of which three shall concur to find an indictment. Mr. IJixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, that is a matier that does not seem to me really to be of very much importance, but it strikes me that a grand .jury to consist of seven persons is enough. On the other hand — (interrupted) The Chairman: I will stale to the gentleman that the motmn of the gentleman from Cascade is limited to five. Mr. Di.xon: It seems to me. although it is, of course, an expression of n|iinion, it seems that five should concur to find an Indictment. I think a grand jury of five would be pretty small, and when you make it so small as that, it appears to me it might be objectionable in more than one respect. I am inclined to think that the number as it now stands in the amendment as adopted is correct. Mr. Mayger: Mr. Chairman, I offer my amendment to Sectinn num- lier 8 for the purpose of having a sufficient representation. In a large county, like this county, where there are so many different sections of il. I think it would require as many as nine to represent the whole county. That is the only reason why I made the amendment to increase the num- ber to nme instead of seven. Mr. Collins: I think seven is about right and I therefore withdraw my amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Cascade withdraws his amend- ment: It now recurs upon the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clark, that the grand jury shall be composed of nine, and shall re- quire seven to indict. Th Chair then put the motion, and a division being called for, the amendment was lost by a vote of 21 in the affirmative to 38 in the nega- tive. The Clerk then read Section 9, as follows: "Sec. 9. That treason against the State shall consist only in levying war agamst it or in adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort; that no person shall be convicted of treason except on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on his confession in open court: that no person shad be attainted of treason or felony by the Legislative Assembly; that no conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate; that the estate of persons who may destroy their own lives shall descend or vest as in cases of natural death." There being no amendments to Section 9, the Clerk read Seel inn 10. as follows: "Sec. 10. That no law shall be passed impairing the freedom ot speech; that every person shall be free to speak, write or publish what- ever he will on any subject, being responsible for all abuse ol that liberty: and that in all suits and prosecutions for libel, the truth there- fd' may be given in evidence, and the jury, under the dii'ei'tinu nf the cour-t, shall determine the law and the fact." Mr'. Winston, of Deer Lodge: Mr. ('hairman. I offer nn ami'mlnient to section 10. The Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodg(! offei's a subsliiutc for Section 10. Tlie Clerk read as follows: "Dei'laration of Hights. Sec. 10. Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being respnnsible for the abuse of that right: and nn law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the lib- erty nf speech or of the press. In all suits oi' prosecutions for libel, the (ruth may be given in exidence to the jury, and if it shall apjiear to CONSTITL'TIONAI. CONVENTION I8«;i IH> the jury that the matter charged as libelous was true, and was published with good motives and lor justifiable ends, the parly shall be acquitted and the jury, under the direction of the court, shall determine the law and the fact." The substitule was seconded. The Ciiair put tlii' tiuestiou on the subsliliite. and the same was de- clared lost. Mr. Kohiiison, of l)c>er Lodye: .\lr. Cliairmnii. I desire to amend Sec- tion 1(1. The Chairman: The gentleman from L)eer Lodge offers an amendment to Section 10. which is as follows: Amend Section 10 by striking out the words "law and the' "after the words "determine the." in line 4; and add after the word "fact" at the end of said line the words "and the court shall determine the law." The amendment was seconded. Mr. Koliinson, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. Chau-maii, I will state the object (d that amendment. As the original section stands it provides that the jury in these cases of libel shall determine not only the fact but the law. there is a section on our statute books to the same effect. I never could see any legal logic or philosophy in an action of libel where the jury determined the question of law any more than in any other character action. How and why it ever got there has always been incomprehensible to me. It seems to me, in a libel case, as well as all others, that the jury should determine tlie fact and the court the law; and the object of the amendment is to place it on the same footing or founda lion as any other civil action, that the court shall determine the law and the jury shall receive the law from the court. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, and the same was declared lost. , The Clerk then read Section 11, as follows: "Sec. 11. That no ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or retroactive in its operation, or making any irrevocable grant of special privileges, franchises or immunities, shall be passed by the legislative assembly." Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clark: .\Ir. Chairman, I move to amend this Section 11 by striking out. in the first and second lines, the words "or retroactive in its operation." I consider it very important that the mo- lion should prevail. Lnder this provision it would be impossible to pass certain remediable laws which are very necessary. If a justice of Ihe peace or notary public fails to qualify or performs an act in any ir- regular manner, it may become very necessary, to save the title to val- uable property, m many instances, that the legislature should confirm the acts of that justice of the peace. Very often there are irregularities ol that kind, and it becomes necessary for the legislature to act upon them and confirm them. There may be cases where a person is ap- pointed to office, performs his duties, but the legislature may have neglected at first to fix the salary or afford any compensation, and an> act of that kind would have to be retroactive. .Now, as a general rule. I pm opposed to all retroactive or retrospecive measures: but it seems to me that we would hamper the state in a way that would be very un- pleasant and very injurious, and which might hazard the title of prop- erty in many instances where an officer had acted through some little neglect of form. The courts always hold an act prospective and not retrosiiective where it is possible to do so and there is very little danger of retroactive measures escaping the scrutiny of a court except in cases where they are necessary. The Chair then put Ihe motion, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk then read Section 12, as follows: "Sec. 12. t'hat no person shall be imprisoned for debt, except in such manner as may be prescribed by law. upon refusal to deliver up his estate for the benefit of his creditors, or in cases of tort, where there is strong presumption of fraud." Mr. Farren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following, and would say that Section 13 of the old constitution seems to have been left out by the Committee for some reason or other. I think it should go in. 120 1>R0CEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Cliairman: Ttip genllfman from Sil\or Bow oilers flip lollowiiif.': After Section- li! in the report of tlie Conimittee, insert the following, and ihange the number of the succeeding sections to correspond: "Sec. 13. The right of any person to iieep or bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in Question: but nothing heiein conlamed shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared duly carried. The Chairman: This .section will be inserted as Number 13, and Sec- tion 13, as it now stands, will be numbered 14. The -Clerk then read Section 14, as follows: "Sec. 14. That private property shall not be taken for p^i^ate use' unless by consent of the owner, except for private ways of necessity, and except for reservoirs, drains, flumes or ditches on or across the lands of others for agricultural, mining, milling, domestic or sanitary purposes." .Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I move the rejection of this section. I do not believe myself that this Convention has the power to authorize the legislature to take private property for private use. I believe that an act of the legislature doing so would be a violation of the CiOnstitutioii of the United States, which says, "pro|iorty shall not be taken except by due course of law:" and it has always been held. I believe — 1 have never heard of any stale or any court holding that a leg- islature has the right to lake my property and to give it to anybody else: and if they have a right to take it for one thing they have a right to take for any private use except it was prevented by this Constitution, 'I'he Constitution of the United States says, "public use" — "private prop- erty shall not be taken for public use without just compensation." But T know of no ^^w which authorizes a legislature to take private property for private use; and it seems to me that it is the height of despotism for any one to take my property. Now I believe some court has de- cided that a private pass way is a public use: that, although it is for the especial benefit of a particular person, yet that anybody has a right to use it. and it is therefore for public use. Ditches and drains for irrigation purposes should be for public use, but if so I he public must have the right to use it: and I do not believe myself that the legislature of any state has the right to take a ditch across my land, or that any person has the right to take a ditch across my land for his private use: I think not. I believe that the legislature of the Territory of Montana has an act that authorizes condemnation of private property, or the right to take a ditch across private property for the purposes of irrigation, .ludge DeWolf. at the last term of the Missoula court, decided that that act was unconstitutional. That, of coure, was unconstitutional because they were acting under the Constitution of the United States, and it has been held always, that although private property might be taken for public use on just compensation being paid, that jirivate property could not be taken, under the Constitution of the United States, for private use, under any circumstances, without the consent of the owner: and my own judgment would be that an act of the legislature passed in pursuance of this, unless the court should decide that the purpose of irrigation is a public use. would be unconstitutional; for it does strike me that it is the height of despotism to admit that any majority has any right to take my property and give it to anybody else against my consent, or has the right to damage my property for the benefit of anybody else; and 1 be lieve that no legislature should have the right to take private property for private use for any purpose: and I move to reject Section 13 of the report. The inolioii was seconded. The Chair slated the motion. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clark: I do not kimw, Mr. Cliairman, how the courts may decide a matter of this kind, but it seems to me that, if our valleys are to be occupied by. farmers, that the section had better stnnrl as it is. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: I was going to say, Mr. Chairman, that in Section 14 as it stands I do not see anything that authorizes the legislature In take private proiierty unless with the consent of the owner; that is the way it reads. C0NSTITUT10NAI> CONVENTION 188l» 121 Mr. I'ailMMiy. of .Mcaglior: Mr. Chairman. I do nol know thai I inoroughly umJerstaud Ihi.* proposition, and would like td whether or not, witliout a special grant in the legislati\(> power, thai thi> legislature could clion 10. That no person shall lie imprisoned for Ihe purpose id si'curing his testimony in any case longer than may he necessary to take his deposition. If he ean give security for his appearance at llie lime ot trial he shall he discharged upon giving th(> same: if he faiinot give sccurit>' his deimsll ion shall be hikeii in the iii.-mner lo be prescribed t)\ law. See. i; that no i)erson shall be compelled In |estil'\ auainsl himsell in a cnininal case, nor shall any person be Iwicr pnl in ,ieo|iard> lnr Ihe (^oNsrri'ri'iii.NAi. ('.(•nvkntio.n isssi il'.') sanio olTensL'. 11' the jury disagree, or IT the jiulgiiienl be arrested alter verdiel. or if the verdict be ai-rested for (>rror of law, the accused shall not be deemed to have been In jeopardy." There being- no amendments to Sections Iti and li. tiie (Jicrk read Section 18, as follows: "Sec. IS. that all persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties except for capital offenses when the proof is evideni or the presump- tion great." There being no amendmenls to Section 18, the Clerk read Section 19, as I'ollows: "Sec. 10. That excessive bail shall not be required, nor excess of tines imposed, nor cruel or unusual punishments inflicted. There being no amendments to Section 10. the Clerk read Section 20, as follows: "Sec. 20. That the privilege of liie right of habeas corpus shall never be suspended, unless in case of rebellion or invasion the public safety require it." There being no amendments lo Section 20. the (^lerk read Section 21, as follows: "See. 21. That the military shall always be in strict subordination to Ihe civil power: that no soldier shall, in lime of peace, be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, except in Ihe manner prescribed by law. There being no amendments lo Section 21. the Clerk read Section 22, as follows: "Section 22. The right of trial by jury shall remain inviolate in crim- inal cases, but a jury in civil cases in all courts or in criminal courts not of the grade of felony, may consist of less than twelve men, as may be prescribed liy law. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I have a svibstifute for Sec- tion 22, which I desire to offer. The Chairman: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers the following as a substitute for Section 22, as follows: "The right of trial by jury shall be secured to all and remain inviolate: but in all civil cases, and in all criminal cases not amounting to felony, upon default of appearance or by consent of the parties expressed in such manner as the law may prescribe. a trial by jury may be waived or a trial had by any less number of jurors than .the number provided by law. A jury in justice's court, both in civil cases and in cases of criminal misdemeanor, shall not consist of more than six persons. In all civil actions two-thirds in number of the jury may render a verdict, and such verdict so rendered shall have the same force and effect as if all of such jury concurred therein." The motion on the adoption of the substitute was seconded. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 would like to ask the gentleman if tbr legislature can provide lor a less jury than six before a justice of the peace. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow:" The .substitute is for a jury of not more than six. The Chair put the question on the motion, and the substitute for Section 22 was declared adojited. The Clerk read Section 23. as follows: "Sec. 23. Laws for the punishment of crime shall be founded on the principle of reformation and prevention, and not of vidictive justice." Mr. Durfee, of Deer Lodge: I move to strike that section out. 1 i|o not see that it means anything. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. 1 hope that we will not strike out that provision. The gentleman says that he does not see that It means anvtbing. It does mean a good deal. It means that the punish ment tor crime shall be with the view of reforming the criminal, and with the view lo prevent in Ihe future, his committing the same crime, instead of incarnating him simply as a punishment, without any other object in view Ihan to simply punish a man in a kind of spirit of revenge, he is put there for the purposes of reformation and prevention. That is all lliere is to it. The idea is that Ihe punishment shall be somewhat with a view to reform the man, making him a belter man, and especially in relation to our penitentiaries and institutions where men are confined who are to be punished for crime, that Ihey shall have a tendency to make men better. If we are to put a man there, simply for the purpose of pun- 126 prO(;eedl\gs and debates isliiiig hiin, in this ago and with the name of God Almighty in our Con- stitution, that we sliall be vindictive towards any man. be lie criinnial 01- otiierwise, seems to me to be a preposterous proposition. 1 am opposed to striking ttiat out and hope it will reniiim theiv; as showing that we belong to the advanced age in regard to iliis matter. Mr. Durfee, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman. I cannot see that it would add any force to the idea tliat the punishment would he vindictive becausi' declared so in Ihe Constitution: and what etfeid or what force it wmild liave on the cinninnl. or whal elfi'ct it would have in tlie administra- lion of the law — I mean this declaration in Ihe (Jonstitution — I cnniiot see: and as it would lie simidy superfluous and lumheriiif; up Ihe Coii- slitulinn willidut any pui'i)ose. I see no reason whv il shmild imi he stricken oul. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, the Committee had tins matter under consideration. They thought that perhaps it might not mean anything, and then again that il did mean something. Inasmuch as this is simply a declaration of principles, we thought it well to put the ex- ception in there as a declaration of the people of this Territory, showing the ground upon which we punish crime — not, as Judge Knowles has well said, in a vindictive spirit, but in a spirit of prevention, and for the pur- pose of preventing the recurrence of the same crime, and thai, as a civilized nation, we had some respect and something in common wilh thi' rest of the world. We want tfiem to understand the principles upon which we base our laws. This is one of the progressive ideas of our present civilizalion, and one of the ideas which perhaps will shine as brightly in the years to come as any other — that our laws are based upon principles of humanity and not upon principles of revenge. I hope the section will stand. The Chair put the question on the motion of the genlleman from Deer Lodge, and the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 2'f, as follows: "Sec. 24. No law shall be enacted which will preM'iil persons of foreign birth or residence from becoming the owners of min(\s or mining property, except under the restrictions contained in the laws of the I'nited States relative to the location thereof." Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer a substi- tute to Section 24. If the Chair will permit me I will read this myself. "Strike out Seclion 24, and insert instead the following: Sec. 24. Persons of foreign birth or residence shall have the same right as native born citizens to acquire, purchase, possess, enjoy, convey, transfer and inherit mines and mining propei'ty, and milling, reduction, concentrating and other works and real property necessary fin- or connecled willi the business of mining and treating ores and minerals. Provided thai nothing herein (contained shall be construed to infringe the authority of the United States to provide for the sale or disposition of ils mineral and other public lands." Mr. SargenI, of Siher Bow: 1 mo\i' llic adniiliiin (if llii' sut>slituti\ The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula, asked that Ihe suhstilule be re-rend, and Ihe Clerk re-read the siilistitute. Mr. (lollins. of Cascade: Mr. PresiiliMil. 1 lia\e some doubt as to whethi'r that ought lo be placed in the Bill nf Rights. It seems to me that our liberties would not be curtailed by lea\ing that seelion oul. and thai it wotild bo .just as well, if it is to bo incoi'porated at all, that il should bo incorporated in some other place than the Bill of Rights. As a mailer of fact, I cannot see that it is necessary that il should have MUX- place in Ihe Constitution. It seems to me that every word and every iileii exj)ressed in that section is legislation pure and simple. .\t any rale there is not room for it in Ihe Bill of Righls. If it is fru' tlie inter- ests of the Slate of Montana Ihal it should lie I'liacled into a law. il will probably receive the attention of the legislaluri'. ami as long as it is to the inleresis of the Stale of Montana thai thai shnuld be a law it will ddublless remain upon our stalule books. Bui I simply class Ihat section as a broad and sweeping mailer which does imt refer in Ihe remolesi ilegrec lo (lur rights or our liberlies. and oiiglil nol to be iiicorpcu'aled in the Conslitiilion, mm-e iiarlicularly under this head. B(>sides, Ihe lime may come. ten. fifleen or Iwenly yeai's from now, when this proposition should bi' changed — Ibis legislation should be clianged — and il set'ms to cuNsiiirridN Ai. cow K.\ riiix is-su i-,'7 iiic that if tlial lime i'mt iIki's cimih' tlif ponijlc ol' Muntaua sliuulil liavo an <'asy ami lotntmiate way of cliangiiig it. Bui. and any rate, if the members of this Convention insist that it shall go into the Constitution, let us put it in some more ajipropi-iate and fonvenient place. Mr. Dixon, of i>ilver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I would like to state, in re- gard to this matter, that so far as 1 know, it is the general desire among persons who are interested in mines m this country that the restriction which IS now placeil by the law of the United iStates on this matter should be removed. 1 know, and every man who is connected with mining mat- ters in the i'erritory knows that by that Act of Congress a great deal of foreign capital has been kept out of this country, which would otherwise come m here and be invested in our mines. It is a class of capital which is desirable: we want it to come here; it will benefit the whole country, and it will benefit every community. Now, as to the matter of putting it into the Constitution, if we make no provision whalever in regard to it, then we go back to the common law, and under that aliens cannot inherit or acquire property to hold it. So that, in the absence of any provision in the Constitution, we would stand in the same condition that we do now — that no sales of mining property could be made to aliens. There is another phase of this matter: it seems to me that this is a matter which requires a constitutional provision in order to give it some stability and security. If a man comes here from abroad and desires to put money into our mines and our mills, he cer- tainly wants to have some reasonable security that the capital invested will "be safe. If no provision is made in the Constitution for this purpose, it certainly would not give any alien very much security in his invest- ments, but, on the contrary, leave them in rather an uncertain condition, and leave to every succeeding legislature to act about it as they choose. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr, Chairman. I would like to ask the gentle- man if this substitute relates to mining property alone, or to all prop- erty. Mr. Oixnn. of Silver Bmv: Only lo mining property and property connected with mining. .Mr. I.uce. of (iallatin: 1 do not understand llie policy of making this exclusive of other property. We are offering to dispose of the public lands of the United States." It has been the policy of every state. I be- lieve, to permit foreigners to hold property and inherit real estate. and 1 think this provision seems to be altogether too exclusive. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. I would say in reply to the gentleman who has just addressed the Convention that I believe it is generally considered an unwise plan to allow foreigners to come in and monopolize the public land ot this country. That has not been disputed. I believe, among people who have been engaged in agriculture, and among people generally. But. so far as mining property is concerned, we have bad an illustration of the benefits of allowing foreign capital to be invested in this country, and of the disadvantages which have arisen under the operation of the alien law-, as it has been termed, which now prohibits foreign capital from being invested in the territories of the United States. We have had several investments in this Territory prior to the operation of that law. and an instance of that. I believe, is the Drum Lummon mine, which was operated anrl has been operated by foreign capital. As the law slands to-day foreign captital is excluded from this Territory; and we know — gentlemen who are connected with mining enterprises know — that probably millions (d' dollars have bi'en ex- cluded from this country and have found investment elsewhere. I am pei'sonally acquainted with a number ,of extensive mining operators and promoters of mining industries who ha\e solicited and obtained cap- ital from foreign countries to be invested in the mines of the United States, and almost all of these gentlemen have left this country for a more profitable field of operation. We know that the great accumulation of capital in foreign countries has resulted in a very low rale of interest, and a rate of interest that would be favorable to those people would not be considered a rate of interest very favorable to the industries of this country. Hence it is well that the people of Montana should be allowed a certain libertv and scope in the sale of their mines to foreign capitalists who have plentv of money, thereby lo induce them to come here and build large smelting plants and large riaills and other enterprises of that kind, which would necessarily involve the expenditure of large sums of money and result in the fostering and development of other great industries in 128 PROCl'^KDI.NUS AM* DKBATES this oounlry. Hciicn 1 ayrce willi (lie sinril nl' this amoinlnifiil ami hi'- lii'M- that it should he adopted. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis A: Clark: .Mr. Chairman, 1 am in lavoi- (u the adoption ol this amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. and 1 concur in tlie suggestions of the genlli'inan from Silver Bow who last addressed the Committee that w-e need and wani and ought to invite the acquisilion, especially as dircadly connected witti the develop- ment of the nulling interests of this ('Outry, of foreign capital. It is known and understood that in foreign cound'ies, and especially m Europe, many parties are now lending out large sums of money at low rates of interest, and tliat they are willing, and ciiiite willing, to undertake the hazardous investments tliat sometimes accrue in mining operations, where the people of the United States, in many instances, are unwilling to make ventures, i believe that it will not be rlisputed that it is on accotiid (d foreign capital having been introduced into this country that much id' our mining industry has been stimulated and our resources developed. t!ut 1 am unwilling lo go to the extent suggested by the gentleman from Gallalin. that this ought to apply to all real and personal property. It was the acquisition of the great agricultural sections of the couiiti'y m Dakota and in Colorado that gave rise to the discussion oi this question ui the Congress of the United States, whicii resulted m the passing of the prohibitory act, whicli prevented tlie Territories of Ihe riiiled Stales Irom disposing of the lands of the United States lo aliens, and pro- liitiited aliens from acquiring mining and other property into the t iiited States. The Committee of Congress that had that Act under considera- tion simply considered it from the point of view of the agricultural in-. terests. and the mining aspect of it was overlooked at the lime of its passage by Congress. None of the reasons that operated to make it beneficial to pass that law applied to tlie mining interests of this coun- try. Mines are a character (d' property which do not grow and enhance in value by the lapse of time, but, on the contrary, as they are worked out the property itself becomes valueless": whereas, with reference In the oilier kinds of properly, namely, the agricultural property of the country, thi- lapse of time in many instances serves only to enhance its value by reason of the improvements which are made upon it. .And so it was that a large syndicate of European capital took up millions and millions of acres of the public lands — agricultural lands — in the Territory of Dakota and in the State of Colorado, or tlH' Territory of Colorado: and it IS against the acquisition of that character of property, 1 think, that both legislation and constitutional provisions ought to be directed. I believe that it is in the acquisition and possession of small homes that the happiness and prosperity of this country depends, and if by any pro- vision in this Constitution it is permissible for foreign 'capital to obtain large quantities of the agricultural lands of this country, I be- lieve that the time will come when the people of the State of Montana and the jjeople of the whole United Stales will rise up and protest. But as against the. mineral interests of this country no such objection as that can he urged. The Chair put the question upon Ihe adoption of the substitute for Section 24, offered by the gentleman from Siher Bow (Mr. Dixon\ and Ihe same was declared carried. The Clerk read Section 25, as follows: "Sec. 25. That Ihe people have the right peaceably to assemble for Ihe common good, and to appeal to those invesled with the powers of gov- ernment for redress of grievances by petition or remonstrance."' There lieing no amendments to Section 2.5, the Cli>rk read Section 20, as follows: "Sec. 26. That no person shall be depriv(>d of jde, liberty or property without due process of law." There being no amendments to Section 20, Ihe Clerk read Section 27, as follows: "Sec. 27. That there shall n(>\er he in this state any involuntary servi- tude except as a punishmenl lur crime, whereof the party shall have tieen duly convicted. " There being no ainendinenls to Section 27, the Clerk read Section 28, as follows: "Sec. 38. The provisions of this Constitution are mandatory and prohibitory, unless hy (>xpress words they are declared to be otherwise." CUNSTri'LTlONAI, CO.WE.NTIO.N 1889 129 TfuTp being no anieuduients to Section 28, tlie Clerk read Section 29, as follows: "Sec. 29. The enumeration in this (Jonstilution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny, iniijair or disparagi' others retained by the people." Mr. Fields, of Park: .\ir. C.liairnian. 1 innxr llial Section No. 30, which I herewith submit, be incorpoi'aled in the 1 ii'claration of Rights of the people of the Territory of Montana. I'he Chairman: The gentleman from I'ark offers the following, to be inserted as Section iNo. 30: "that no armed person or persons be brought into this State from other states to preserve the peace, except ui)iin a call issued by the Go\ernor of the state or the Commander in <.lnid' of the United States Army." The motion was seconded. J. R. Toole, of IJeer Lodge: 1 desire to ask if the law of the Constitu- tion of the L'niled States does not make that provision. It occurs to me, Mr. Chairman, that it does. I can conceive of no case whereby a mili- tary or othei' power would be called in this state, or in any other state, without an order of the Governor or the Commander in C.hief of the Army. -Mr. l-'iidds, ol l^ark: .Mr. Chairman, and gentleineii, 1 would like to say a few words in regard to this matter. We find that there was a bill introduced in Congress February 2nd, I88M. and a committee of five ap- lioiiited to investigate troubles arising in different slates by armed bodies bi'ing kept by corporations and companies foe the preservation of the peace. That same committee reported to th,e Fiftieth Congress, Second Session. February 27th, 1889. Upon a thorough investigation of the case they found in the State of Pennsylvania one company, the Redding Rail- road Company, employed three hundred policemen, and the coal and lion comiiany employed four hundred and twelve, making a total of seven hundred rtnd twelve men, all armed wilh revolvers and rifles, to keep the peace, and keep the working men and others in servitude. Now 1 claim, among the rights of the people of .Montana, that we should pre- serve the peace in .Montana first ourselves, and if we are unable to pre- serve that peace ourselves, that our governors shall apply and call for our militia, and, if that fails, that the United States army may be called up- on. 1 do not believe, nor I shall not. beliexe, that any corporation or person has got the right or power to employ armed bodies of men to shoot down people who assemble and congregate for the purposes of freedom, and I think that the time has come when the people, in our Hill of Rights, shall sliow that we are ready and able to protect ourselves without any siicli armed bodies being in our midst; and I shall uphold this measure, and 1 hope that every true, loyal, peace loving and liberty loving member of this Convention will vote for it. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. "That the right of any person to take or bear arms in defense of his own home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question." That is one of the sections in our mil of Rights. I feel that, as a citizen of this Territory, that in defense of my own properly, if I cannot defend it myself, that I shall have the right to invite outsiders to aid and assist me in defending it. Mr. t!ourlney, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman. I think this declaration is in harmony with right, and it seems to me that a person, or the people of this 'I'erritory who are unable to defend their homes, by calling upon the military power through the Governor that they can get the necessary protection: and I am certainly opposed to the granting of the power which should by right belong to the Governor, and only to the Governor, to the head of any corporation, in the event of any trouble. 1 luipe it will never be necessary to g(i to that exteni, but in case it does, 1 think you will agree with me that the people of this Territory can always elect to office men upon whom the public can depend and iiKMi who shall exercise the duties of their office to the satisfaction of the people. Believing that, 1 crtainly shall vote for this resolution. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, I labored under a misapprehension when the resolution was first read, but 1 am heartily in fa\or of it. I hope it will never come to a pass here when we are not competent and capable of managing affairs of this kind as citizens of (lur iiwn state, and I must liere say that we should endeavor to guard 130 PH()CEEI)I.\(iS AND DEBATES against tlif pdssiliilily of sui'li coiUiiif-'encu's as have nccuri'Pd in the United States: liodies of men such as Pinkerton's inon have gone uilo certain states and intimidated citizens of those states lor pay. For this reason I shall support heartily the amendment as offered. -Mr. Breen, of Jefferson; .Mr. Chairman, and peiitlemen. as I under- stand the resolution that is offered, it is offered particularly against those vast and armed bodies of men known as the I'lnkerton detectives, and lliis Convention is n'ot the only Convention that is dealing with this question, 't'he Convention sitting in Washington Territory had the same matter before it, only they had an illustration of it last winter when there were armed forces of Pinkerton detectnes brought into their coal mines and intimidali^l miners because they had the manhood to stand up there and demand their rights. We see examples of il all o\er the country; we saw it in .Montana in IHTti. wlien the railroad brakemen went on a strike against lowering their wages: and that strike was not well under way when tliere was a special body of Pmkerton detectives came to Butte, three — I think four — in number came for a starter. I was in- formed of it at the time, for I was in Butte. And then again we saw another corporation in this 'J'erritory, which 1 shall not name, that brought Pinkerton detectives to their works, and they were employe object of tlie resolution, and I can see nothing wrong with it. -Mr. Hamsili^ll. of Alissoula: Mr. Chairman, iii the consideration of this matter it seems to nie that we are actuated, each one, more by selfish moti\es than otherwise. We should endeavor, in the discussion of this question, to be actuated by calm, deliberate action. It is a recognized fad today that there is a great social struggle going on. and that this fight today is between the so-called capitalist and the laboring man. We may define them by different names: we may attempt to say that it is not so, but the fact still remains that in every daily paper that we pick up w'e see that tliis struggle is going on. 1 expect to vote against certain propositions that have lieen introduced by what are termed rep- resentatives of the labor element, but still I maintain that the resolution introduced by the gentleman from Park is just and honest and will be beneficial in its results. There ha\e been provisions, and there are pro- visions that the military may be called on in any time of danger, or in times when property is threatened; 1 think that is sufficient, and the resolution, as introduced by the gentleman from Park, is to protect the honest laboring man and to destroy the power and the action of the JMnkerton detectives in standing over men — laboring men — and threaten- ing and menacing them in the riglits which certain statutes of this Territory accord them; and I believe that every man who has given this subject due consideration must admit that in order to preserve the rights of the laboring men we must provide in the Constitution ways and means whereby no force of any kind or character can be held over private individuals to intimidate or menace them in any way. by any class or body of men. I think that the Constitution of the United States and tliat the laws of our lanq are sufficiently clear and explicit in their character to adequately protect every man's property within the limits of Montana, and 1 do not see in this resolution any intimation that threat- ens in any way the property of any person or persons. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow-: I do not tliink the Governor of one state has the right to call on the govei'oor of any other state for military assistance under any circumstances. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: The Constilution of the United States says that the President of the United States shall use the armies of the United States upon the call of the governor of any state, or ttie legislature thereof. I move, Mr. Chairman, that the Committee do now arise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. IN CONVKNTIO.N. The President in the Chair. The Convention was called to ortler, and the Chair announced that the Convention would hear the report of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Mr. President, I have to report that the Committee of the Whole have had under consideration General File No. 1. Progress has been made, and the Committee asks leave to sit again. 132 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBAIKS Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: 1 move that the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole be adopted, and that the Committee be granted further time for tlie consideration of (ieneral File No. 1. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Buford, of Madison, moved tliat the Convention do adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared earned. Adjourned until Friday, July 19, 1889, at 10 A. M. TWELFTH UW. Friday, July 19th, 1889. The Convention was called to order by I he President at 10 o'clock A. M. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. President, Mr. Haskell was called away from town yesterday, and would like leave of absence until Monday afternoon. The President: .Mr. Myers, the gentleman from Yellowstone, desires leave of absence after today's session until Tuesday next, at 3 o'clock. Mr. .Mitchell desired leave of absence until Monday. Mr. Gibson also desired leave of absence until .Monday morning. The Chair announced that these gentlemen would be excused. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the Journal of the previous day. The Chair announced that the Clerk had a communication on suf- frage, which wouki be received and referred to the Committee on Suf- frage without being read. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone, sent up the report of tlie Committee on State Institutions and Public Buildings, which the Clerk read, as follows: "Mr. President, your Committee on State Institutions and Public Buildings desires to report the following, to be incorporated in the Con- stitution. (Signed) ALFRED MYERS, Chairman." Section 1. Educational, reformatory, and penal institutions, and those for the benefit of the insane, blind, deaf, and mute and sucli other institu- tions as the public good may require, shall be established and supported by the state in such manner as may be prescribed by Law. Section 2. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to cliange or locate the seat of government of the state, but shall at its third regular session, after the adoption of this Constitution, provide by law for sub- mitting the question of the permanent location of the seat of government to the (lualified electors of the state at the general election then next ensuing, and a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said election shall be necessary to determine the location thereof. Said Legis- lative Assembly shall also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election, the question of choice between the two places lor which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like niannr'r to I he (jualified electors of the stale at the next general election: Provided. That unlil the seat of governineiit shall have been permanently locaterl, as hiM'ein provided, the temporary ln- cation thereof shall be and remain at the city of Sec. 3. When the seat of guvernment shall have been located as herein provided, the location thereof shall not Ihereafter be changed, except a vote of two-thirds of all the qualified electors of the slate voting on that question at a general eleclion, at which the question of the loca- tion of the seat of government .shall lia\e been submitted by the Legis- lative Assembly. Sec 4. The Legislative .Assembly shall make no appropriations or expenditures for capitol buildmgs or grounds until the seat of government shall have been permanently local eil as herein provided. Sec. 5. The several counties of the state shall provide, as may be prescribed by law. for those inhaliitants who, by reason of age. infirmity or other misfortune, may have claims upon the sympathy and aid of society. CUNS'iriTTloNAl, CUNVEMID.X 1889 133 The Prpsiilcnt: if tliorc bi' no objections this report will be reterred to the Comniiltee on Prinlnifr and ordered to be printeil. Mr. Brown, oi Choteau, sent up report of Comniitti'e which was read by the Clerk as follows: ".Mr. President, your Committee to whom was referred Resolution No. 1 i. introduced by .Mr. Conrad, relating to the creation of new counties, beg leave to report that they luive had same under consideration, and respectfullv retui-n same without recommendations." Signed lUVID (i. BROW.N, Chairman. The IM'esident: This report, with the resolution referred, will take the general course and be placed on the general file. Mr. .1. K. Toole, of Lewis <.V Clarke, sent up the report of the Com- mittee on Legislative Departments, which the Clerk read as follows: "Mr. President, your Committee on Legislative Departments have had under consideration sundry propositions to be embodied in the Consti- tution of the State of .Montana, and have directed me to report back the accompanying provision;, with the recomiendation that the same be adopted as the Article on Legislative Departments.'" Signed ,1. K. TOOLE, Chairman. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis \ ("llarke: .Mr. President, the articles em- bodied in the report are numerous, and are to be printed, and I ask the unanimous consent that the reading of it be disjiensed with, and that it be reterred to the Committee on Printing. The President:' If there be no objection to the request of the gentle- man, that the reading of the articles be dispensed with, it will so be dispensed with and be ordered printed. The report of the Committee was as follows: PRdPOsri'lON .\(). 19. Article on Legislative Departments. Section 1. The legislative power shall be vested in a Senate and House of Representatives, which shall be designated "The Legislative Assembly of the State of Montana." Sec. 2. Senators shall be elected for the term of four years, and Representatives for the term of two years, except as is otherwise pro- vided in this Constitution. See. 3. No person shall be a Representative who shall not have at- tained the age of twenty-one years, or a Senator who shall not have attained the age of twenty-five years, and who shall not be a citizen of the United States, and who shall not for at least twelve months next pre- ceding his election have resided within the county or district in which he shall be elected. Sec. i. The Legislative Assembly of this State, until oflierwise pro- vided by law. shall consist of sixteen members of the Senate, and fifty members of the House of Representatives. It shall be the duty of the first Legislative Assembly to divide the State into Senatorial and Repre- sentative districts, but there shall be no more than one Senator from each county. The Senatorial districts shall be numbered from one con- secutively to correspond with the number of counties. The Senators shall be divided into two classes. Those elected from districts numbered odd numbers shall constitute one class, and those elected from districts numbered the e\en numbers shall constitute the other class: and when any additional Senator shall be provided for by law his class shall be determined by lot. One-half of the Senators elected to the first Legis- lative Assembly shall hold office for one year, and the other half for three years: and it shall be determined by lot immediately after the organization of the Senate, whether the Senators from the odd or even numbereil districts shall hold office for one or three years. Sec. h. Each member of the first Legislative .\ssembly, as a com- pensation for his services, shall receive six dollars for each day's at- fendanci", ami twenty cents for each mi'e necessarily traveled in going to and returning from the seat of government to his residence by the usually traveled route, and shall receive no other compensation, per- quisite or allowance whatsoever. No session of the Legislative .Assembly after the first, which may be ninety days, shall exceed sixty days. After the first session the compensation of the members of the Legislative 134 PROCEi;i)I.\(iS AND DEBATES Assembly shall be as provided by law: l'i(i\ided. That, im Lej;islalive As- sembly shall fix its own compensalion. Sec. 6. The Legislative Assembly (except the first shall meet at the seat of goveriimeiit, at twelve o'eloek noon, on the second Tuesday after the first Monday of January, next succeeding the geneial election provided by law, and at twehc o'clock noon, on the seconil Tuesday after the first Monday of Jaiuiarx id' each alternate year lliereafler, anil at other times when convened by Ihe (idvernor. The" term of serMce ol the members thereof shall liejiin tin' iiexl ila>- alter Iben' eleetuni, until otherwise provided by law; I'i'ovideil. I'lial llu' lirst Legislative .\ssembly shall meet upon the pi'oclamalion of the Governor, afier the admission of the State into th(» Union, upon a day to be named in said proclamation, and which shall not be more than fifleiMi m- b'ss tli;iii leu days after the admission of the State into the Union. Sec. 7. So Senator or hepresentative shall, during the lerm for which be shall have been elected, be aiipointed to any civil office under the Stale; and no member of Congress, or other person holding an office 'except attorney at law, notary public, or in the militia under the United States or this Stale. stiaFI be a member of eitlier house during his continuance in office. Sec. 8. .No member id eilbiM- house shall, during the term, for which he shall have been elected, receive any increase of salary or mileage under any law passed during such term. Sec. 9. The Senate shall, at the beginning and clo.se of each regular session, and at such oth(M' times as may be necessary, elect one of its members President pro tempore. The house of Representatives shall elect one of its members as Speaker. Each house shall choose its other otficers, and shall judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its members. Sec. 10. A majority of each bouse shall constitute a quorum, to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and compel the attendance oi absent members in such manner and uiidiM- such pen- alties as each house may prescribe. Sec. li. Each house shall have power to determine the rules of its proceedings, and punish its members or other persons for contempt or disorderly tjehavior in its presence; to protect its members against vio- lence or offers of bribe or private solicitation, and witli the concurrence of two-thirds, to expel a nKMuber, and shall have all nlher powers neces- sary for the Legislative Assembly o\' a free state. A member expelled for corruption, shall not Ihereatler be eligibl(> to either house of the Legis- lative Assembly and punishmenl for contempt or disorderly behavior shall not bar a criminal prosecution for the same offense. Sec. 12. Each tiouse shall keep a journal of its proceedings and may, in its discretion, from time to time, publish the same, except such parts as require secrecy, and the ayes and noes on any question shall, at the request of any two members, be entered on the journal. Sec. 13. The session of each house and of the committees id' the whole shall be open, unless the business is such as requires secrec>. Sec. I'l. .Neilher house shall, without the consent of the oilier, ad- journ for more than three days, nor to any other ]ilace than that in which I tie two liouses shall be sitting. Sec. 15. The members of Ihe Legislalivi> Assembly shall, in all cases, except treason, felony, violation of their oath of office, and breach or surety of the peace, be privilegivl from arresi, during their attendance at the session of their res|)ective bouses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any sijeech or debate in either house Itiey shall not be questioned in any other place. Sec. I(). The House of Hepresentatn es sliall base the sole jiower ot impeachment. The concurrence of a majority of all the members shall be necessary to an imiieachment. All impeachments shall he tried by ttie Senate, and when silting for lliat purpose the Senators shall be upon oalb or affirmation to do justice according to law and evidence. When Ihe (ioveinor or Lieutenant fidvernor is on trial, the (Jhief .lustice id' the Supreme Court shall preside. .\o person shall be convicted without a concurrence of two-thirds of the Senators elected. Sec. 17. The (iovernor and other Slate and .ludicial otficers, except county judges and justices of the peace, shall be liable lo imi)eacbment CONSTITI'I'IONAL CO.NVEM'IO.N IH89 l.T) lor lijf;li iTimos ami niisdonieauors. nr iiialfeasanco in olliL'c. but jiidg- mciit in siii-li L-ascs shall only oxtond tn remo\al i'nnn ollii'c and dis- qualifu'ation to hold any ollicn of honoi', trust or protit in the State, 'i'lip party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall, nevertheless, be liable to prosecution, triai judfimeiit, and punisluneiit according to law. Sec. 18. .\ll (dticers not liable to impeachment shall he subject to removal tor misconduct or maireasance in oltice. m such manner as mav be provideo bv law. Sec. 19. .\o law shall be passed except by bill, and no bill shall be so altered or amended on its passage through either house as to change its original purpose. Sec. 20. The enacting clause of every law stiall be as follows: "Be it enacted by the Legislative Assembly (d' the Slate of Montana." Sec. 'JKNo bill for the appropriation of money, except for the ex- penses of the government shall be iiitroduce.l within ten days of the close of the session, except by unanimous consent iif the house in which it is sought to be introduced. Sec. 23. .No bill, except general approiirial mil bills, shall be passed containing more than one subject which shall be clearly expressed m lis title: but if any subject shall be I'lnbraced m any act which shall not be expressed m the title, such act shall be \o.d only as to so much thereof as shall not be so expressed. Sec. 21. .No bill shall becom(> a law, except by a vole of a majority of all the members present in each house nor unless on its tmal passage the vole be taken by ayes and noes, and I he names of ttiose voting be entered on the journal. Sec. 2.5. .No law shall be revised or aincndi'd, or the provisions there- of extended by r(derence to its title only, but so much thereof as is revised, amended, or extended, shall be re-enacted and published at length. Sec. 2(5. The Legislative .Assembly shall not pass local or special laws m any of the following enumerated cases, that is to say: For granting divorces, laying out. opening, alleriiig or working roads or highways, vacating roads, town plats, streets, alleys or public grounds: locating or changing county seats; regulating county or township affairs: regulating the practice in courts of justice: regulating the jurisdiction and duties of justices of the peace, police magistrates, or constables: changing the rules of evidence in any trial or inquiry: providing for changes of \enue in civil or criminal cases: declaiMig any person of age: for limitation of civil actions: or giving effect to informal or invalid deeds; summoning or impaneling grand or petit jurors; providing for the management of common schools: regulating the rate (d interest on money: the opening or conducting of any election, or designating the place of voting; the sale or mortgage of real estate bfdonging to minors or others under dis- ability: chartering or licensing ferries or bridges or tidl roads; remitting fines, iienalties, or forfeitures: creating, increasing, or decreasing fees, percentages, or allowances of public officers; changing the law of de- scent; granting to any corporation, association, or individual, the right to lay down railroad tracks, or any special or exclusive privilege, immunity, or franchise wliatexcr: for the punishment of crimes: changing the names of persons or places; for the assessment or collection of taxes; affecting estates of deceased persons, minors, or others under legal disabilities: extendir^g the time for the collection of taxes; refunding money paid into the state treasury: relinquishing or extinguishing, in whole or in part, the indebtedness, liability, or obligation of any corporation or person to tins State, or to any municipal corporation therein; legalizing, except as against the State, the unauthorized or invalid act of any officer; exempting iirojierty from taxation; restoring to citizenship persons con- victed of infamous crimes: authorizing the creation, extension, or im- pairing (d' liens; creating offices, or prescribing the powers and duties of officers in counties, cities, townships, eleidion or school districts; or authorizing the adoption or legitimation of children. In all olher cases wliere a general law can be made applicable, no special law shall be enacted. Sec. 27. The presiding officer of each house shall, in the presence of the house over which he presides, sign all bills and joint resolutions passed by the J^egislative Assembly immediately after their titles have been publicly read: and the fact of signing shall be at once enti-red upon the journal." J36 PHOCEEDINOS AND DEBATES Sec. 28. 'rile Ijogislalivc Assi'iiihly sliall prest-rilje by law llic iiumbor, duties and coiniJi'iisatiiiii (d I he (iriii'ccs and eniployocs of I'acli house: and no paymont shall ho made from the Stale Treasury, or he in any way authorized to any such pei'son, except to an acting (d'ficer or emidoye elected or appointed in pursuance of law. Sec. 29. .No hill shall he passed s-'ivin^ any extra i-cunpensation to any public officer, servant, or employe, agent, oi' contractor, after serv- ice's shall have been rendered or contract mad<', imr pi'oviding for the payment of any claim made against the slate witlmut prcsiiuis luitlmrity of law, except as may lie otherwise pi'ovided herein. Sec. 30. .\11 stationery, printing, paper, fuel, and lights, usi'd in the legislative and other deijartmenis of government, shall be furnisheil, and the printing and binding, and ilistribution of llie laws, journals and de- partment reports and other iH'intiiig and binding, ami the repairing and furnishing the halls and rooms used for the meetings (d' the Legislative Assembly, and its committees, shall be performed under contract, to be given to the lowest bidder, below such maxiinum price and under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. .No member or officer of any department of the governincMit shall be in any way interested in any such contract: and all such contracts shall be subject to the approval (d' the (iovernor and State Treasurer. Sec. 31. Except as otherwise provided in this Constitution, no law shall extend the term of any iiublic officer, or increase or diminish his salary or emoluments after his (dection or appointment; Provided, That this shall not be construed to forbid the Legislative .Vssembly from fixing the salaries or emoluments of those (dficers first elected or appointed under this Constitution, where sn(di salaries or emoluments are npt fixed by this Constitution. Sec. 32. All bills for raising revenues shall originate in tlie House of Representatives: hut the Senate may propose amendmeuls. as in the case of other bills. Sec. 33. 'J'he general appropriation bills shall t>mbrace nnlhmg but appropriations for the ordinary exiienses of the executive, legislative. and judicial departments of the Slate, interest on the. public debt, and for public schools. All other appropriations shall be made by separate bills, each embracing bul one suliject. Sec. 3'i. No money shall lie iiaiil nul of tlie treasury, except upon appropriations made t/y law, and on warrant drawn liy tln' prn|ier idlicer in pursuance thereof. Sec. 35. .No appropriation shall be made for charitable, industrial, educational, or benevolenl purposes to any person, corporation or com- munity not under the absolute control of the Slate, nor to any deiiom- hiational or sectarian institution or association. Sec. 30. The Legislative Assembly shall not delegate to any special commission, private corporation, or association any power to inalie, su- pervise, or interfere with any municipal improvement, money, property, or effects, whether held in trust or otherwise, or to levy taxes, nr to perform any municipal function whatever. Sec. 37. No act of the Legislative Assembly shall authorize I lie in- vestment of trust funds by executors, administrators, guardians, nr trust- ees in the bonds m- stock of any [irivate corporation. Sec. 38. The Legislative .Vssembly shall have no power to pass any law authorizing the State, or any county in tliis State, to contract any debt or obligation in the construction of any railroad, nor give or loan its credit to or in aid of the const met ion of the same. Sec. 311. No obligation or liability id' any person, association or corporation, held or owned by the State, or any municipal corporation therein, shall ever be exchanged, transferred, remitted, released or post- poned, or in any way diminished by the Legislative Assembly: nor shall such liability or obligation be extinguished, except by the payment thereof into the proper treasury. Sec. 'lO. Every order, resolution or vote, in which the (•(inriiirence of both houses may be necessary, except on the question o\ adjournment, or relating solely to the transaction of ttie business of the two timises, .-hall be presented to thi^ Governor, and before it. shall take effect be approved by him or, being disapproved, be re-passed by two-thirds of both houses, as prescribed in tlie case of a bill. COXSTITUTIONAI. CU.WEM ION IKSC) 137 See. 41. If any person eieeted to either house of the Legi.*lati\e .\ssembly shall offer or promise to give his vote or influence in favor of or ag^ainst any measure or proposition, pending or proposed to he mtro- ilueed nitii the Legislative .Vssemhly, in eonsideralion or upon condition that any other person elected to the same Legislative Assembly will give, or will promise or assent to give, his vote or influence in favor or against any other measure or proposition, pending or proposed to be introduced into such Legislative Assembly, the person making such offer or promise shall he deemed guilty of solicitation of bribery. If any member of the t>egislative Assembly shall give his vote or influence for or against any measure or proposition, pending or proposed to be intro- duced into such Legislative Assembly, or offer, promise or assent so to do, upon condition that any other member will give, or will promise or assent to give his vote or influence in favor of or against any other measure or proposition, pending or proposed to be introduced' in such Legislative Assembly, or in consideration that any other member hath given his vote or influence for or against any other measure or proposi- tion in such Legislative Assembly, he shall be guilty of bribery, and any member of the Legislative Assembly, or person elected thereto, who shall he guilty of either of such offenses, shall be expelled, and shall not thereafter be eligible to the Legislative Assembly, and. on the conviction thereof in the civil courts, shall be liable to such further penalty as may be prescribed by law-. Sec. 42. Any person who shall directly or indirectly offer, give or promise, any money or thing of value, testimonial, privilege or personal advantage, to any executive or judicial officer, or member of the Legis- lative Assembly, to influence him in the performance of any of his official or public duties, shall be deemed guilty of bribery, and be punished in such manner as shall be provided by law. Sec. 43. The offense of corrupt solicitation of members of the Legislative Assembly, or of public officers of the State, or of any mu- nicipal division thereof and the occupation or practice of solicitation of such members or officers, to influence their official action, shall be defined by law, and shall be punishable by fine and imprisonment. Sec. 44. A member who has a personal or private interest in any measure or bill proposed or pending hetore the Legislative .\ssembly shall disclose the fact to the house of which he is a member, and shall not vote thereon. Mr. Parberry, of .Meagher, sent up the report of the Committee on Irrigation, w-hich the Clerk read as follows: "Mr. President: Your Committee on Irrigation, to whom was re- ferred Proposition -No. S. offered by A. J. Burns, of Lewis & Clarke, hereby beg leave to report that they have duly considered said Proposition, and recommend that same be not adopted as a part of the Constitution. (Signed PARBERRY. Chairman.' ■f'he President: If there be no objection, this report, with the ac- companying Proposition, will be placed on the General File. The Clerk also read the following report, which was sent up: ■■\our Committee on Irrigation, to whom was referred the Resolution of Maginnis relating to the grant of arid lands by the United Stales to the Slate of Montana, beg leave to report fa\ Cnninuftee simply for the purposes of consideration and report. .Mr. Warren, of Silver How: Mr. PresKjeul. it strikes ine that it is hardly necessary to refer a Resolution of that character to any committee, and 1 make a motion that this Resolution lie indefinitely [losliioned. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Hurleigh called tor the ayes and noes. .Mr. Chessman, of Lewis tS: Clarke, asked I hat the Ri'scilution be read, and the same was read. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I arise In a jioiiil ot oi-der. This proposi- tion must be subniilted lo a proper Committee wittmut debate. It is a matter that is intended to be incorporated in the Constitulion, and under Rule 22 it must be referred to an appropriate committee. The President: The question hinges upon the fact as to whether this is a proposition or a resolution: the Chair is of the opinion that it is a resolution, proposing matter to be incorporated in the Constitution, and the Chair is therefore of the opinion that the point ot order taken by the gentleman Irom Missoula is well taken, and that this resolution ought to go to the Committee lor consideration. Mr. Mayger, oi Tewis A: Clarke: As I understand llie Hcsolulioii. does it not. require the Committee to report such a Iti'siilutiini. or is it l(>fl to the discretion of Ihe (ioinmittee? The President: This matter is referred to the Committee to consider and report back to the Convention. It implies an instruction, but until it is inoveil and adopted by this (lonvention tliat instruction has no forc(>. It is the ojiuiion ot the Cliair that tills matter slioiild h(> referred to the Commitli'e, witliout debate, tor consiileralion and ri^port. ■the Clerk then read tin' tnllowing, ol'lei'ed li\ .\li'. I.iice ot (lallaliii. IHHKiAI'IO.N. "ResoUeil that the folloviing tour sections be, under appropriate num- tiers, made a part ol the Constitulion in Ibe Article under tlie head ol Irrigation. Sec The water of inery natural siream not heretofore appro- priahul within Ihe State of Montana is liereby ileclared to be the prop- CONSTITUTIONAI. CnWKNIlON ISS'.l |:j(i cily of llii> public: and Ihe sanio is lii'dicattHl Id the use of the pcuple of till' Slatp, sutjjiH-l to appropriation as hpreinat'tpr provided. See I'he right to divert the unappropriated waters of any nat- ural stream to beneficial uses shall never lie denied. Priority of appro- priation shall give the better right as between those using the water. Sec All persons and corporations shall have the right of way across any lands in the State for the construction of ditches, canals and flumes for the purpose of conveying waler for domestic purposes, for Ihe irrigation of agricultural lands, and for mining and manufacluring purposes, and lor drainage, upon payment of just compensation. Sec The Genera! Assembly shall provide by law thai the Board of County Commissioners in their respective counties shall ha%e the [lOwer. when application is maile to them by either party interested, lo establish reasonable maximum rales to be charged for the use of water, whether furnished by individuals or corporations. The President: This will be received and referred to Committee No. L"i. if there be no objection. .Mr. Joy, of Park: I ino\e that the Convention do now- resolve itself into a Coinnuttee of the Whole and continue the business that we were engaged in yesterday in Committee of the Whole. I'he motion was seconded. The Chair put Ihe motion, and the same was declared carried. The President called Mr. Callaway, the gentleman from Madison, to the Chair. l.\ COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. .Mr. Callaway, of Madison, in the Chair. The Committee was called to order. The Chairman: When the Commit lee arose yesterday it had under consideration the proposition of the gentleman from Park: what is the pleasure of the Convention? .Mr. Chessman, of Lewis it Clarke: Will the Chair please state the liroposition. .\Ir. Fields of Park sent up a substitute. The Chairman: The gentleman from Park desires to withdraw the liroposition offered yesterday, and to substitute the following: "See. 30. That no armed person or persons be brought inio this State from other states on the pretense of preserving the peace, except upon a call made by the Legislature of this State, or, of the Governor when the Legislature is not in session, but this shall have no application lo the forces of the United Stales. The motion was seconded. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, sent up an amendment. the Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers the following: "No armed person or persons shall be brought into this Slate from any otiier State to preserve the peace, except upon the application of the Legislature, or of the Executive when the Legislature cannot be convened." The motion w-as seconded. .Mr. J. Iv. Toole, of Lewis iV: Clarke: Mr. Chairman. I desire to say in explanation of that, that 1 have sought to employ, as near as possible, the language used in the Article of the Federal Constitution so far as the power is concerned — that it shall be upon the application of the Legislature of the State or of the Governor when the Legislature cannot be convened. -Mr. Collins, of cascade, called for the r(^adiiig of the resolution of the gentleman from Park, again. The Proposition was read. .Mr. Luce ,of Gallatin: .Mr. Chairman, if T am in order, I would like to offer a substitute for the whole matter. The Chairman: The gentleman from Gallatin offers the following as a substilule for the entire. ".\o armed person or persons or armed body of men shall be brought into this State for the preservation of the peace or the suppression of domestic violence except upon the application of the Legislative Assemblv or of the Governor when the Legislative A.ssembly cannot be convened.' The motion was seconded. I'iO PliOCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Maginnis calloil lor the reading of the H. ■solution ollcred bv Mr. Fields of Park, which was read. Mr. Luce, of (iallatin: Mr. Chairman, in relation to the substitute which I have just offered, I simply rise to call the alli'iition of the Con- vention to Section i. Article i, of the Constitution of the United States: "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a re- publican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the Legislature or Kxecutive (when the Legislature cannot be convened' against domestic violence." I think that the proposition I have offered there is in e.xact accordance with the <;oiistilution of the United States. That troops may be brought here, or If.rces of United States trooi)s may be brought here, for the protection of this State either against insurrection or against domestic violence, which may include, of course, the keeping of the peace, and I am free to say that I agree with the intention of the design and principle involved in the proposition of the gentleman from Park County, and 1 think thai this embraces about the same idea with a correct conformity with the provision of the Constitution of tin' United States. 1 put it upon the broad ground that the State of .Montana is capable of taking care of itself if we are not so capable, why we are not then capable of state- hood. 1 believe that the people of .Montana can protect lliemselves so far as necessary, and keep the peace of Montana, without the aid or interference of unauthorized armed men or armed bodies of men. Mr. Fields, of Park: Mr. Cliairman, I believe that the substitute offered by the gentleman from Ciallatm is in strict couforinity with Section 4. of Article 1, of the Constitution of the United States,^ and I also believe that it is in strict conformity with the resolution that I pre- sented. So, also, is the other amendment. The point wliicli I wished to co\er was to avoid to the utmost any lengthy aiiicle or resolulion, and in presenting the resolution whicli I did I was strictly cognizant of the effect of the existence of Section -4 of Article 4 of our federal Constitu- tion. In the section which 1 have presented I refer to the Legislature, and instead of using the word "Executive" 1 usei the word "Governor," meaning one and the same thing. Now 1 believe that it is necessary for the people of Montana to put themselves upon the basis of self pro- tection. I wish to see it adopted and brought forward, giving the people a right to first take care of themselves, and if they are not able to do so, that they shall then have the right to call on others to help them. It is a known fact that when any disturbance of the peace, such as we have liad in Pennsylvania and oilier Eastern states in the past, that armed bodies of men have iieen iin[iorted into those localities for the purpose of intimidating and coercing honest laboring men: and the Congress ol the United Stales has taken these things into consideration, and did appoint a Committee of five to investigate these troubles, and they re- ported, and showed in their report that in one valley alone, in Pennsyl- vania there were seven hundred and twelve armed men under corpora- tions there to preserve the peace, and that the report, when given, showed that the workingmen of those districts in which these disturbances occurred were in a state which I would term chattle slavery. I arh willing that any substitute that may be offered here wliicli wnll cover wliat was contemplated in my resolution shall be adopted, and T am will- ing to vote for it. 1 do not wish the honor or glory, if there be any in it, of presenting the resolution at all. I want to see it carried either one way or the other, so that in future those questions of peo|)le whose rights ha\e been denied to them may look forward to our legislatures tor protection. I am here not for the protection of the workingmen alone. 1 believe in equal protection all around. 1 am not here in the interests of any political party. I am here for a govermiieiit that will give us equality and justice from one end of the page to the other, and from one class'of citizens to the other, and I liope that Ihis section will be adopted, and that the fact will be taken info consiileration that it IS not introduced for the purpose of giving any one man or class of men any more rights than any other. Mr. J. K. Toole, of liCwis iS; Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I ask |ea\e to withdraw the amendment w-liich I presented. I think the amendmeni offered by the gentleman from (iallatin (Mr. lAice'' expresses in better terms than my own the iiui'iioses of the resolution, and I Iherefore wish to withdraw il. CU.N^TITL'TIU.NAL CU.W E.MIUN lS8i) I'll Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I beliovo that the sub- stitute ottered by the gentleman from (^iallatin covers the ground, and is aeeeptabh> to the mover of this resolution, hence I .shall support its adoption. 1 have the fullest confidence and the greatest faith in the ability (d' the people of .Montana to govern themselves without the intervention of armed forces brought in here, whether by corporations or individuals. 1 do not believe in importing into this Territory Pinker- tons or any other class of men who make their living by a system of espionage upon the acts and conduct of the workingmen of tjiis IState. We have the necessary machinery of government, or will have when this State is thoroughly organized, to protect all the property and all the rights of the people. For that reason I give my liearty support to the Resolution offered by the gentleman from Park, and the substitute offered by the gentleman from Gallatin. Mr. Rickards, of i?ilver Bow: If my memory serves me correctly, one of the very first things that this Convention did was to adopt the Constitution of the United States as a basis for all work that we were to undertake. .Now. if it is necessary for us to take up one section or part of tins Constitution and engraft it in our State Constitution, where may it stop? 1 want to say to you, and to this body, that I feel that we will be transcending our duties as a Constitutional Convention to adopt this measure, or anything like unto it. That I may not be misunder- stood, if I were a member of a state legislature and a matter of this kind was introduced, I should most heartily support it: but I say again that, as a Constitutional Convention, it seems to me we are transcending our duties to attempt any such legislation as this. ISow. if there are reasons for adopting this measure, the same arguments can be adduced for the adoption of other like measures, and if we are to undertake them, where are we to stop? I want to say simply that I am o|iposed to any legislative enactments in this Constitutional Convention, and there- fore i shall vote against this proposition as offered by Mr. Fields, or by Mr. Luce, or any other that may be offered as a substitute for the original. .Mr .Craven, of Lewis A Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I think that we should have something of the kind in the Constitution. The establishment of a state government, with the full equipment of officers incident thereto, presupposes not only a power but an obligation on the part of the State to preserve peace and order among its own citizens, and in this connec- tion I am prone to abide with my own people. With the safeguards thrown around each citizen by the Constitution of the United States, I am willing to entrust my life and liberty and property in the hands of the citizens of this state. Once establish the i)rinciple that any company or corporation has the unqualified right to bring in ten Pinkerton detec- tives on the ground real or fancied, that they are necessary for the pres- ervation of the peace, and you establish the principle. " and you give them the right to bring in one hundred men. With the right to bring in one hundred men you give them equally the right to bring in one thous- and men — a stantiing army resting on their arms around the peaceable forces of the industries of this State — the number of the men. the char- acter of the soldiery and the duration of their presence to be determined only by the wish and the wealth of their employer: ami this. Mv. Chair- man, in an age when feudalism is supposed to exist onlv in the rluskv past — this condition. Sir, when we have entered into a social compact, en- trusting to the executive and judicial departments the preservation of our lives, our liberty and our property. What are constables and sheriffs for i' they are powerless to preserve the peace? They may call any citizen to their assistance: if they are powerless they can appeal to the Governor, and he can call out the militia. What purpose have we in the establish rnent of a state militia? Is it merely for the purpose of wearing out mili- tary cloth and brass buttons — exploding surplus powder, in showing their bravery only in quelling these horrible Indian massacres, of which we saw an instance in Missoula county a few days ago? CLaughteri When the constables and sheriffs are powerless, and the people of the Territory and the Governor and the militia, the entire military force of the United Slates stands ready at our invitation to preserve peace and order. Hence it is that this resolution can do no harm, and it will eventuallv prevent a great deal of possible harm, and should have a place in the Constitu- tion. I stand ready to lend my vote in favor of its adoption, (.\pplause). 142 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. J(iy, (if Park: Mr Chairman, I am unable to add anything to what, the gentleman has already said, unless it l)e to say that I have seen some- thing of the attan's that the gentleman Irom Park county alludes to, and which iironi|ile(i him no doubt to present this Resolution: and I am bearlily in favor of the Resolution as suggested by the f;eutleman ii-wn Park. I think that in this day and age and generation, when we are all taught to believe and work upon the principle of equality one with an- other, that it is improper that, while an honest man is laboring in the mines, or in any other employment, any other citizen should stand over him Willi a shot gun in order to inlimidate liiiii in any manner. 1 think it is perfectly safe to adopt the Resolution as suggested, and I am heartily in favor of it. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: In leply lo the suggestion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Rirkards , that the Constitution of the United States affords the prolection alluded to, I wish to say that I agree witli him, but those old constitution makers never had the faintest idea that the time would arise when private individuals or private corporations would take into their own hands the military forces in order lo preserve the peace or protect their own property. Now their properly has the same right to protection that mine has, and it certainly would not be right on my part to establish an arsenal in my own house and employ pri\ate soldiers to protect my own property, but rather that 1 should go to that great source of protection that every citizen goes to — government. I say that it was never contemplated that any such state of affairs should ever exist in any state. Again, it has always been the policy of the law to suppress anything that tends to a breach of the peace. Now I say that when unauthorized armed men stand about, and around those who are in the employ of any corporation or any prixate iiidnidual, it is a menace lo those men employed by these corporations or individuals, and it tends to a breach of the peace: and if you permit it upon the one side you must permit it upon the other: then you have two standing armies that are not recognized by any law upon God's earth ready to fight at the drop of the hat: you have bloodshed in engagements that nobody can sanction. I say that anything that tends to a breach of the peace^ should be discouraged in this new State of Montana, and I do undertake to say that, so far as 1 know the citizens of this Territory, they are a loyal, law abiding [leople, not only in keeping the peace but in preventing breaches of it — patriotic not only in preserving the rights of every citizen but also in seeing that no man shall do that which shall tend to a breach of the peace. And then again, I say that for all purposes in this Territory, so far as I understand it^ the organization of this new State will be sufficient in power — the executive power — to keep the peace, and suppress domestic violence; but if we ever do degenerate to the extent that we cannot rely upon our execu- tive arms, then we have this protection that is guaranteed to us in the fourth Article of the Constitution we may then call upon the Execu- tive, or the (Commander in Chief of the forces of the United States, to- wit: The President of the United States, — to send troops in here to sup- press our own domestic, internecine violence, I insist that it has grown up within certain states of this Union, and it may apply sometime to this State, that men think they are above the law and belter able to protect their own property than the executive of the state in which they live, and therefore ihey call to them unauthorized bodies of armed men— I do not care for what purpose, it is wrong an>"«'ay and anywhere, and foi- that reason 1 am strongly in favor of this proposilion, ami 1 only offer this substitute in order to bring it completely, as 1 think, williin the pro\ision of the Constitution of the United States. Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I wish to ha\e one word lo say upon this question. I am very pleased and proud lo vote for a prop- osition of this kind, for the reason that I think it is an act of simple jus- tice. I have lived long enough in Montana to know that the |)(>oiile of this Territory are amply able to take care of Ihemselves: but even tlioiigh it should come to such an emergency that we would not be able to do so, we have a course open to us, and that course is entire and complete compliance with the law. However, 1 have this suggeslion to urge, and that is that these two resolutions seem to he about I he same in sub- slance. Now, in order that there may be no misunderstanding I would like lo see either one or the other withdrawn. I \Vould certainly he pleased to vot(> fnr either one. .\s it is, I will vole Inr llie snhsliliite. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVEN'I'ION ISHi) 143 Mr. Sargpiit, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairinaii, tlicie scr-ms to be a great uiiaiiimify of opinion upon this (|ue,stion; Init 1 appietieud tliere are two .sides to the Question. My idea is that the privileges of the citizen are that, m ease of danger to liiinself, he may call upon the citizens to sur- render even life itself, if necessary, for liis protection, and also, lliat when the life or property of a citizen is in danger, the duty of the government towards that citizen ends only when his life or property is placed m danger. iNow in Article 14 of the Amendments to the Constitution it says, "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges 01- immunities of citizens of the United States." Mow I say that it is an abridt;inenl of my rights and privileges, guaranteed to me by the Con- stitution, if I cannot at my discretion, within the law, call upon the sixty millions of people within the United States, if necessary, to pre- serve my life and property: and if this Constitutional Convention, or the Legislature of Montana, passes any law forbidding it. in my judgment it is clearly unconstitutional, and will be void and of no effect. If the State of Montana can abridge the rights and privileges of the citizens as guaranteed by the Constitution conversely they can abridge the rights of the Government: and if the individual is protected behind imaginary state lines, they can say that the Government shall not call upon them, or define and restrict the manner in which they can do it whenever the country is in danger. I say it is a bad principle, and legislation pure and simple, and it is also officious and ought not to be incorporated in our Constitution. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clark, called for the reading of Ihe original proposition and the substitute therefor. The same was read. Mr. Craven: I rise to make this suggestion. The original resolution has a limitation clause saying that these men shall not be brought in from other states: the substitute says they sliall not be brought hero, whether from other states, or from Canada, or from across the Ocean. Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I just want to say a word. 1 cannot hear all that is said in favor of or against this section, hut I have heard enough to lead me to believe that perhaps I have been misunderstood. I want to again assert myself. I say that I am opposed to the adoption of this Section, or substitute, simply because I do not lielieve it is our province, as a Constitutional Convention, to do it. Now, as a resident of Silver Bow county, I have seen some of the evils aimed at in this Resolulion, and I want to say, in order that I may not be mis- unilerstood. that I believe it is wrong, radically wrong, to bring in any armed body of men as we have seen it done in .Montana: and I say again, if I were a member of the State Legislature. I wouhl champion such a cause as Mr. l^Meld's champions: but there have been other resolutions or propositions offered here upon which the same arguments in favor of their adoption can be advanced, and now, thus early in the proceedings of this Constitutional Convention, it does seem to me we had better es- tablish a precedent we can safely follow: and if we adopt this measure, as 1 said before, where shall we stop? For this reason, and only this reason, I sliall vote against the adoption of the Section. Mr. itobinson, of Deer Lodge, here arose to address the Convention, upon which there were several calls for the question. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I do not presume, Mr. Chairman, that the members of this Convention are aware of the fact I have listened pa- tiently to what they have had to say upon this proposition in violation of the rules of this Convention and this Committee, that provides that until all the other members of the ffouse or Committee shall have spoken, no member shall be entitled to speak more than once. I have listened to more than one speech, waiving my time in favor of gentlemen who have made two, and possibly more, arguments upon this proposition, and I presume such gentlemen would not now, after having infringed upon the rules, in any way desire to prevent me from expressing what I may think about the proposition. I know thai I have not a very pleasing way of addressing any body of men: 1 know, .Mr. (Chairman, that I have not the facully of at all times being on the popular side of a proposition. If I am noted for anything, Sir, I believe it is a reputation I sometimes enjoy for having the unpopular side of public propositions. I remember. Sir, years ago. in the i^egislative Assembly of this Territory, when I happened to have the unpopular side of some propositions, that T was hoofed and scoffed and abused by the members and everybody else, because I had lii ■ PIIOCEEDIXGS AM) DEBATES tlie unpopular side of a proposilion that saved Montana Tprrilory from bankruptcy: and tlio piiblir avc indcbtod sonictunps to men who tiave the faculty of taking the unpopular side of a proposition and paying no at- tention to what other men may think about it; but whether it is popular or unpopular to act upon their own judgment in the line of what they think is just and right — that class of men who stand sometimes as the rock bound shores of the ocean, and say to their opponents, thus far shall you go and no farther. These men, Sir, are even indebted to that class of men who are unpopular for their own protection. If we are swept by popular notions in this Convention, and run riot to pander to this thing, that and the other, then, Sir. I say we are in danger. But some- times is it not well to lislen to the reasons and ideas advanced by men who are unpopular, or that the Convention may not want to hear? I do not desire. Sir, to intrude myself upon this Committee and speak ex- cept where I believe it is my duty as a member of the Committee, and Convention, and a duty 1 owe to the men who sent me here to represent them in this Convention and Committee. Thus, in answer to the clamors ol those who protest against anything I might say upon ttie proposition, I will proceed now to express my convictions upon this question. That I may intelligently understand it, for the purpose of making an inquiry, Mr. Chairman, I would ask that this amendment we are voting on be now read, because there are some very striking features in it that I may possibly be able to point out to this Committee. The amendment was read. Now, Sir, this amendment leaves the matter, in my opinion in some obscurity. We have some provisions of the Constitution of the United States, and some settled principles of law in regard to the matters con- templated in this that we cannot set aside or bid defiance to. It seems to me, among other things, that we have a provision of the Constilulion of the United Slates — of the amendments to the Constitution, Article 2, which says, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Now then, Sir, this amendment proposes a thing that seems to be somewhat ambiguous. It is very far reaching in its scope, that is, it prohibits any person bringing armed men into the Territory for the purpose or under the pretext of preserving the peace. Now, Sir, if that is the literal meaning of this Section, it is certainly in violation of this provision of the Constitution of the United States of men living upon the borders of this Territory find their property is in danger — are jeopar- dized by armed mobs of Indians or otner lawless men, which are fre- quent on the borders of this Territory and over in Idaho or Utah or Dakota or Wyoming — they find armed men tliat are available there for their protection and for the protection of their property, and they are living in the remote parts of Montana Territory, when the Legislature cannot be convened in time to afford them any protection, then — then. Sir, if this amendment contemplates a prohibition against a man's step- ping across the line and bringing his neighbors, and men lliat may be convenient there, across to aid him, to prevent ttie Indians from burning his farm houses down, or lo prevent raids or injury to his person or property — prevent him or them from bearing arms, but the right of the Constitution that is guaranteed to them — then, if this is meant to pro- hibit that, and it seems to me it smacks very strongly of it. then I say it is in violation of the Constitution of the United States, and it is wrong in principle if it is meant to strike at a iiroposition of that character: it it is meant to strike at these men who live upon the borders of Mon- tana, and they are prohibited from gelling those who live outside of the confines of the Slate to step across tlie line and assist them, whether il be one man or two or twenty-five or fifty or one hundred men— if it is meant to jjrevent that. I say il is in violation of the Gonslilulion of the United States, and it is against justice to those who occupy the border possession of Montana. I say, uiion that proposition, it is wrong. If it is meant, Mr. Chairman, to prev(>nl tliem coming as armies Id assist as police force, then I say it is utterly useless, for this reason: In the first place, it is w-ell understood by any man who understands the institutions of our country how, these things all originated under the Constitution and or'ganic law of the United States: that is to say whmiever process is put into the hands of any executive officer issued from any court, or whenever that officer is acling in his official capacity, and lliere is resis- CONSTITUTIONAL COXYENTION 1889 1 45 tance to ttip sorvico ol that procpss. then tho law points out the course, and the only course, to pursue — that is. that officer calls upon the people of the comnuinity as a posse to assist him in executing that process fnmi the courts: he has a right to call on anybody as a posse to assist him in the execution of that process; then if he is unable to execute that pro- cess in that way he calls upon the Governor of the State for assistance; then, if from any cause tlie (iovernor of the State is unable to secure sufficient force there to assist in executing that process, or if the Leg- islature is not in session, the Governor then calls upon the President of the United States and the Secretary of War for assistance. These are the only ways. Sir, provided by law, that forces can come fr(im the outside, that even the militia of the State can be organized for the protection of property and to enforce the process of the courts. These are the only known ways under our laws and under the Constitution of I he United States, anil the only way it can be done; and I say that this amend- ment to this proiiositidn would be useless in that view of it, and would present an absurdity, tf, as I suggested before, it was intended to pre- vent the other pui'poses that I mentioned, then I say it is wrong in its principle and should not be enacted. I heard an expression from the lips of the gentleman from Park County — whether there was any covert mean- ing in the suggestion, or whether the gentlemen have any other hidden meaning beyond what appears upon the face of this resolution, I know not, neither do I care. His suggestion was that the working men ol -Montana should he protected. Now it is a query in my mind what rela- tion the workingmen of Montana have to tins proposition in the Constitu- tional Convention any more than those men wlio do not work. They are all entitled in (>qual protection. Even if a man is a bummer he is en- titled to the protection of the laws. The merchani, the business man and the professional man are all entith^d to the protection of the laws, and to the right peaceably to bear arms; but whal harm can there he, sir. in any man bearing arms in Montana Territory, even if they step over from the borders of Idaho into the limits of .Montana at the suggestion of their neighbors, or otlierwise, to assist in protecting them on the frontiers — what harm tliere can be in that, to go tiiere in a peaceable way for the purpose of protection alone, I am certainly at a loss to know. Theri' is a marked distinction, Mr. Chairman, between men assembling for unlaw- ful and riotous purposes, and those coming together in a peaceable way. I have yet to learn that there is any violation of law for a man to bear arms in a peaceable way for the protection of his own life or his own property or that of his neighbor, whether it be within his stale or that of another; whether he comes within the confines of our State voluntarily or whether he comes at the expense of his neighbor or friend; he comes there for a lawful purpose. Sir. and on the borders of Montana — that is, sparsely settled places — it seems to me it often becomes absolutelv neces- sary that he should invoke the armed assistance and aid of his neighbors beyond the limit of the State of Montana, and not wait until the destruc- tion of his property to apply to the Legislature for permission for him to step over outside of the borders of the State anil in\oke the aid and assistance of his neighbors. Then I say that 1 ha\e yet to learn that, such a thing ought to be a crime. It would be in violation of every princiiile of criminal law that I have ever known in my life. I believe it is the right of a man, let him be where he may, whether on the soil of his own State or that of a neighboring state, in a peaceable manner to carry arms — to be there for any purpose when he is not violating any law; ami. Sir, upon that proimsition the criminal laws invite two propositions. Such acts on the part of men are what we call "per se" — that is, within them- selves— crimes, and such as are made by statute crimes. One necessarily involves turpitude and the other does not. Now then, if we carry out this provision, we do this: We lay the foundation for a crime that never was recognized m any civilized country anywhere as ,a crime — that is, for a man to assist in the protection of the life and property of his neighbors, although it may be beyond the confines of his own state. There never was a system or principle of law that made that a crime. It is not "per se" a crime. Then we propose in our enactment here to make that which never was and is not a crime, but is lawful and commendable in itself — we propose to make that a crime and prohibit il. .Mr. Chairman, I say that I he principle of this thing is wrong in itself, and I ask this Convention to pause and think of these propositions before they launch Ii(i PROCEEOIXdS AM) DKBATES blindly into it— I c-annot .say Ijliiully. bi'cause ttie ttiiiig has tji^pii dis- cussi'd liorp at some Ipnj-'tli. I do not desire to force my views upon this proposition, but 1 make these suggestions to this Convention, and I ask llie members hece to seriously stop and consider whether I am ■right or wrong. Upon mature reflection these are considerations that present themselves to me. I care not how any genlleman upon llie floor of this Committee may tliink about it. I care not whether I am a majority or in the mmority. II is my right, privilej^e and my duty in represent- ing the State of Montana to express these convictions: and mai'k you. gen- tlemen, if this theoi'y is carried out that is proposed in I his' .Section, the time will come when good men and women and children in this Territory may have cause to regret it. Mr. Fields, of Park: Mr. Chairman, have I the right to speak once more on the Resolution? .Mr. Robinson: By leave of the Committee. .\lr. l-'iekis: The gentleman from Deer Lodge asserted lliat 1 had a hidden meaning in using the word working men. I might assi>rt the same of him. that he had a bidden meaning in going up to thi' borders of our Territory to protect people from invasion, cruelty, etc. Why does he not bring back his argument to the place Ihat he started from — the place that we aimed this article at. I tell you Ihat in Pennsylvania, and 1 have got a report made by the Committee here in full, as I meiUioned awhile ago. The Committee was appointed in a resolution presented to Congress February 2nd. I8S8. The following gentlemen were appointed on that Commiltee: G. L). Tellman of South Carolina, W. J. Stone of .Missouri. .1. Logan Chapman of .Michigan, John A. Anderson of Kansas, and A. \. Parker of -New \ork. That Committee in their examination showed where two companies banded together, called in that valley, the Reading Devil l''ish — have seven hundred and twelve policemen armed with Winchester rifles and revolvers, who stand guard over a mass of working men, twenty-, two Ihousand in number, (>ngaged in mining and fifteen thousand engaged oil the railroads, making in all thirty-seven thousand persons, represent- ing in all one hundred and seventy-five thousand persons, over whom they exercise the control Ihat I would only give credit to where there is a despotic form of government which desires to condemn and intimidate and destroy the life and the property of its citizens. Now we do not in that article attempt to restrict or stop any protection to these people. We have left our clause or section upon an aiu'lication to the Governor, f use the word Governor in the arlicies I ]iri'senti'd. but llie word Execu- tive, I suppose, will cover my ground, and will be better adapted to the meaning and perhaps learning of some of the gentlemen present. 1 cannot possibly see where this is going to work any injustice whatever: and so far as any hidden meaning upon my part in saying that it was for I he benefit of working men, and for theii' protection against others, — [ believe it is time and T believe if is necessary that they should take some stand upon which to protect themselves and to aid themselves. ,\nd I stand here as the representative of the working man to see Ihat he does get justice in our Constitution equally and on the same plalform with every other person living in the State of Montana. We want equality and fairness with each and every one. Now we have two resolulions. or one I'esolulion and the substitute offered by the gentleman troni (iallatin. 1 am v\']lling to accepi llie substitute of the gentleman from Gallatin in order lo facilitate this matter and not cause any confusion, as it is ( lainied Ihat it covers a little more ground Ihan what mine did: but 1 fiml 111 thai substitute there is no reference made in regard to the armed forces of the United Stales — our regular army, and if there is not some point in there it might be held to be in conflict with the privilege of mo\lng infantry to be used in the State of Montana or for the trans- porlalion of United States troops to Montana for guard duty, or throuuh the State. Of course I do nol wish to see us step back lo the oiri Maryland proclamation prohibiling arms, in days gone by. We imdei'slaml, accord- ing lo history, that that has all been done away with, and I am not in any sense an old rebel, because 1 was nol living in those days, and F do not believe in presenling anylhing Ihat would cover any such act as that. I Ix'lieve in life, liberty and pursuit ot liaiipiness in th(> broadest sense, and I claim that, when lh(> peo]ile ot Pennsylvania are living under the Conslilulion of llie IJniled Stales, they are not enjoying those [irivileges of lite, libi'rly and the pursuit of happiness: and further, that those people CU.NSTrJUTIU.NAL CU.NVEM'IUX 1K,S'J 147 are in a position, witli the Declaration of Inclependoncc read lo llieni once a year, ttiat maizes it a larco and a lie in ttie lace of ii, when those people are not permitted to enjoy the blessings of life and liberty as citizens of the United States; and 1 believe that Ihe time has come when those people lia\e got to assert their rights, and have got to do it in a good, legitimate and lawful manner, and in no other way; and those rights will never be given to them unless they take a step in advance for the same, A'ow, I do not mean to be antagonistic to capital, I do not wish to make a king or peer or prince out of the working man; but I believe in giving him the just fruits of his labor and a just remuneration for the work he does; and 1 do not believe in having him down in the ditch dig- ging, with a shot gun pointed at him. and not allow him to speak one word with his neighbor. I believe it is the right of every citizen to ask for more pay, and to recei\e it, if he can get it in a legitimate way, I do not believe we are asking too much for those people, in the face of what we profess here when we say that we propose to form a Constitution that will give us all equality, life and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to tbe fullest evxient. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I desire to ask if an amendment would be in order? Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: For information, before that is answered, I would like to ask how many amendments are in order? The Chairman: An amendment to the amendment. Mr. Hogan: Well, has not that been ottered? The Chairman: It has been withdrawn. The gentleman from Custer offers the following as an amendment to the amendment: "No armed force of any character shall e\er be brought into the State of .Montana, or organized in the State by any private person or persons or by any company or corporation, to influence or force any citizen of the State of Montana to either labor, or deter or influence any person from labor- ing against his will, under such fines and penalties as may be provided b> law." The amendment was seconded. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Now, Mr. Chairman, while I am in favor of the greatest measure of human liberty that can be enjoyed by man on earth, I am equally in favor of throwing such safe guard around him as shall insure his safety against domestic violence, or violence of any kind: and I was not aware — it may be owing to my ignorance or lack of i)ursuit of information, that there was a condition of things, or even had been a condition of things in this Territory, where laboring men were en- vironed by an armed force, or foreign forces brought in here in the in- terests of capital, to either compel them to labor against their will or to defer them from laboring, as they saw fit, I am most certainly in favor ot the spirit of the resolution offered by the gentleman from Park county, and if I could be made to believe that an exigency has arisen in the Territory of .Montana where its citizens were influenced or oppressed, or were liable to be influenced or oppressed by any force that is brought in from without the boundaries of the Territory of .Montana, I would not only vote for that, or any other measure, but I would, at my time of life, shoulder my rifle and go oul in defense of the liberties of the people. I have merely introduced this amendment fur the sake of an opening wedge, to gel up here and express my sentiments. While I do not believe, and cannot believe, that a condition of things exists hi^re which calls for the insertion in the Gonstitulion of Montana of a restrictive clause of the character which is embO(iied in the suggestion of my friend from Park county., if it does exist. I am heartily in favor of it. But it is a matter of so grave importance that I would like to have it well considered and referred to a committee, and to a special committee, if necessary, for the express purpose of investigating the matter — studying it in all its bear- ings, and then presenting it here as a separate and independent article to go into the Constitution. I will withdraw the substitute. The Chairman: The question then recurs upon the adoption of the proposition offered by the gentleman from Gallatm. The Chair then put the question upon the adoption of Ihe suljsliluti> of the gentleman from Gallatin (Mr. Luce), and the same was declared carried. I'lK I'HOCKKhl.XdS AM) DEBATES I'lie Chan-man: I'his biinjis us now to the consitloralion of Suctions 13 and 14, which were postijonnd on yi'slci-day. Mr. Luce, of (iallatni: .Mr. Chairman, i move that thi' further consul- eration of Sections 13 and I'l he for the present (tostponiHl, and that when the Committee arise it recommend to the Convention that Sections 13 and 14 he recommitted to the Comnntlee on Irrigation. The motion w-as seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I offer the follow- ing amendment. The Chairman: W ith the consent of the gentleman from Gallatin, 1 will substitute the word "committed" for the word "recommitted" in Ills motion. The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Toole, now offers to amend Section 13 by striking out the same and inserting the following in lieu thereof: "Section 13. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation having been first made or paid into court for the owner." The Clerk here announced that this was intended as a substitute for both Sections 13 and 14 in the printed copy, and that the same should be numbered Section 14. The Clerk then read the following, as offered by .Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: "Amend Section 15 by striking out the same and inserting the following ii' lieu thereof: Section 15. The use of all water now appropriated, or that may here- after be appropriated, for sale, rental, distribution or other beneficial use and the right nf way over the lands of others for all ifitches, drains, flumes, canals and aqueducts necessarily used in connection therewith, as well as the sites for reservoirs necessary for collecting and storing tfie same shall be held to be a public use." The amendment was seconded. Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, on yesterday was not there a motion made to combine Sections 13 and 14 into one section. 'I'he Chairman: The Chair understands there was. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: The understanding was that, they were to be considered together. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I desire to have the whole of the article read now, with the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, so that, we can see how it reads. The Clerk read the sections and substitute, as requested. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I would ask the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke if he considered the propriety of inserting private ways in this — if he has discussed that question? I would like to offer an amendment if it would not interfere with the intent and purposes of th(^ substitute. that private ways — roads — be inserted also. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. Chairman, I hope we will get rid of this proposition before we adjourn, and for the purpose of doing that I suggest that the motion of the gentleman from (iallatin (Mr. lAicel will be acted u|ion. I hope it will be lost. I iiinki' I he suggestion simply Hint we may dispose nf it before adjournment. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I have offered this aineiidmenf because 1 consider that tlie fiiiidamenlal law should speak in no uncertain language upon this absorbing question. We are directly interested in promoting, by every constitutional method, the storage and disposition of water by means of reservoirs, ditches and canals. 'I'he sub- ject is not only of local concern, but it is attracting national attention. In order to accomplish desired results the right of eminent doniiiin must be invoked to secure the right of way for canals and ditches and the sites for reseiTOirs for storage and distribution of the water, and in order to secure the condemnation of private property for this purjiosi", the use to which the propi-riv is to be applied must not be a private but a public use. I think it entirely competent to say in this instrument that these particular uses are public. The term public use must have a meaning (■(iiit.roltetl by the necessity and not that which it generally bears. Our ciindltion is anomalous— our country may be said to be an arid country where an artificial water supply is necessary for a successful cultivation of the soil. The authorities are not uniform in expounding thi' doctrine CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 140 of eminent domain, but considering our condition il is safe to say that we are wthin that principle in adopting this amendment. It has been re- peatedly held that you can appeal to the doctrine of eminent domain to protect, drain and render valuable lands which, by the overflow of a river, might otherwise be an extensive and worthless swamp. Here the conditions are changed. We do not seek to drain lands, but by irrigation to flow water upon the surface. By analogy and parity of reasoning the same principle is applicable. In order to protect, reclaim and render \aluable -our lands, which otherwise would be valueless and a waste, this right must be upheld. It is necessary to declare the use of water which is sold, rented or distributed, a public use, in order to protect the public against vindictive and arbitrary owners and corporations who would sell to one and refuse to sell to another, or who would charge one person one price and another person another price. As before suggested. our condition with respect to these matters is peculiar. Water and th.> right of way for ditches, canals and flumes, as well as for sites for res- ervoirs, is a conceded necessity. By this method we declare what is a matter of common icnowledge. It has been held that when the govern- ment is supplying its own needs, or is furnishing facilities for its citizens in regard to those matters of public necessity, convenience or welfare, which on account of their peculiar character and the difficulty — perhaps impossibility — of making provision for them otherwise, it is alike proper, useful and needful for the government to provide. The amendment em- phasizes that principle, and. in my opinion, makes it impossible for the narrow selfish and unfriendly conduct of an individual lo impede the settlement, cultivation and development of the State. No problem con- nected with our present or future concerns us more than this. I therefore think it not only wise but expedient to provide as far as we can. for the most efficient and comprehensive system of irrigation, and fhe right to condemn private property is an indisputable condition to that end. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the gentleman whether or not the language that is used there would be con- strued so as to give only the right of way to persons who are construct- ing ditches for the purposes of distribution and sale. Mr. Toole: I would say to the gentlemen that the language is broader than that: the language is "sale, rental, distribution or other beneficial use." Mr. Ivnowles. of Silver Bow: It ought to be broad enough at all events so as to cover what are denominated private ways for ditches. I am fully aware of the condition we are living under in this matter, and while I am willing to vote for this substitute. I really think that it will not mend mat- ters much. I do not think that this Convention can ever, by a clause in it. say that a horse is a cow. I do not think that any court would come around, after this Convention should say that, and say that it was a cow: and so when they say that a private way is a public use, where it is only for one individual, I do not believe that the courts will so construe it. Such terms as private ways and public ways are old. I know that courts have gone very far in such matters: Whenever they have seen a great necessity existing "for putting a new construction upon the law and giving new interpretations lo the terms, they have been disposed to do so: and 1 be- lieve that the courts would uphold, as far as they could, the old pro- visions of this bill of rights. But 1 would say to the gentlemen here that I do not believe this matter in the hill of rights is going to accom- plish what they want. I belie\e there will have to be a positive grant of legislation upon the subject, and that either the Irrigation Committee or the Committee upon Legislative Powers have got to make a positive pro- vision upon this subject, granting the legislature the power to establish these ways. I do not believe we can do any better in this matter than to vote for the substitute, although I do not think that it adds anything at all to the original provision that was made. Mr. Joy. of Park: I move you. Sir, that the Committee do now arise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and a division being called for. the motion was declared carried. 150 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES IN CONVENTION Prpsidoiit Clark in tlio Chair. The Convention was called to order. Mr. Joy, of Parii: I move you, sir, that we do now take a recess until two o'clock. The motion was seconded. The President: Before that motion is put, the Chair will hear the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. (Callaway, of Madison: Mr. President, The Committee of the Whole, having under consideration Cieneral File No. 1, have made some progress, and ask leave to sit again. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports that they have made progress, and asks leave to sit again. If there be no objection this will be granted. The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park (Mr. Joy), the same was declared carried, and the Convention took a recess until two o'clock. RECESS 2, P. M. The Convention was called to order by the President. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. President, it being out of order at this moment, I would ask unanimous consent to introduce a petition, with an accompanying letter and would say that I am not familiar' with the con- tents of the letter, which has just been handed to me, and while the letter, I notice, is rather lengthy to be read in Convention, I would say that there is a postscript which will probably cover all the necessary features, so far as the Convention is concerned. I ask unanimous con- sent for its consideration. The President: Is there any objection to granting the request of the gentleman from Park. If there be none the communication will be re- ceived and read. The Clerk then commenced the reading of a certain Memorial to the Governors and Conventions of the coming new States. Mr. Callaway asked, as a matter of information, whether the .Mem- orial came from parties outside of Montana, and, if so, that he would move that it be laid upon the table, no matter what the nature of the memorial might be. The President: The genlleman can object to its consideratiim. Mr. Collins, cf Cascade: 1 would like to have it read for the informa- tion of the Convention. Mr. Eaton, of Park: I did not quile understand the gentleman, but if there is any objection to its consideration, I would simply ask for its return, so that 1 can properly introduce it at some other time. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Mr. Pi'esident, I do not object upon the grounds that it is not m the order of business, I object because it is a memorial presented here, or a petition presented from peoiile here, who have no right to petition or memorialize this (Convention. I( is right that any man or woman in the Teri'ilory ol Mimtana may address this Convention in a respectful way upon any matter, but I deny the right of outsiders, or ])Pople who are non-resiflents of Montana, to addr(ardoning Power. These reports will both be received and referred to the Committee on Printing, with orders that they be printed. The Clerk then read as follows: "Mr. President: I am instructed by the Committee on Judiciary and Judicial departments to report the following, and recomment its incor- poration iiitd the CoiistiliilKni as the Ai'ticle on the Judiciary Depart- ment." it^igned Dl.VU.X, Chairman. ARTICLE OX JUDICIAL DEPART.MENT8. ARTICLE. Judicial Departments. Section 1. The Judicial power of the i^tate shall be vested in the Senate .sitting as Court of Impeachment, in a Supreme Court, District Courts, Justices of the Peace, and such other inferior courts as the Legis- lative Assembly may establish in any incorporated city or town. Supreme Court. Sec. 2. The Supreme Court, except as otherwise provided in this Constitution, shall have appellate jurisdiction only, which shall be coex- tensive with the Slate, and shall have a general superintending control over all inferior courts, under such regulations and limitations as may be prescribed by law. Sec. 3. The appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall ex- tend to all cases at law and in equity, subject, however, to such limitations and regulations as may be prescribed by law. Said court shall have power in its discretion to issue and to hear and determine writs of hal)ea.s corpus, mandamus, quo warranto, certiorari, prohibition and in- junction, and such other original and remeilial writs as may be necessary or proper to the complete exercise of its appellate jurisdiction. When a jury is required in the Supreme Court to determine an issue of fact, said court shall have power to summon such jury in such manner as may be provided by law. Each of the justices of the Supreme Court siiall have power to issue writs of habeas corpus to any part of the State, upon petition by, or on behalf of, any person held in actual custody, and may make such writs returnable before himself, or the Supreme Court, or before any District Court of the State, or any judge thereof: and such writs may be heard and determined by the justice, or court, or judge, before whom they are made returnable. Each of the Justices ot the Supreme Court may also issue and hear and determine writs of certiorari in proceedings for conleinpt in the District Court, and such other writs as may be autliorized by law to issue. Sec. 4. At least three terms of the Supreme Court shall be held each year at the seat of government. Sec. 5. The Supreme Court shall consist of three justices, a majority of whom shall be necessary to form a quorum or pronounce a decision: but one or more of said justices may adjourn the court from day to day. or to a day certain; and the Legislative Assembly shall have the power to increase the number of such justices to not less nor more than five. Sec. 6. The Justices of the Supreme Court Shall be elected by the electors of the State at large, as hereinafter provided. Sec. 7. The term of the office of the Justices of tlie Supreme Court, except as in this Constitutinn otherwise provided, shall be six years. Sec. 8. There shall be elected at the first general election provided for by this Constitution, one Chief Justice and two Associate Justices, who shall constitute the Judges of the Supreme Court, and they shall hold their offices until their respective successors are elected and qualified. The terms of office of said Justices shall be designated on the ballots at the time of their election. The Chief Justice shall at said first election be elected for the term of three years, and said two Associate Justices, one for the term of five years, and one for the term of seven years, and after said first election one Justice (or more, if the Legislative Assembly shall increase the members to five shall be chosen every two years. 152 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES and the terms of ollioe of said additional Justices shall be fixed by law in such manner that at least one of said Justices shall be elected every two years. 'I'hc Chief Justice shall preside at all terms of the Supreme Court, and in case ui' liis absence the Judge having the shortest term to serve shall preside in his stead. Sec. 9 I'here shall be a clerk of the Supreme Court, who shall hold his office for the term of six years, except that the clerk first elected shall hold his office only until the general election in the year 1892, and until his successor is elected and qualified. He shall be elected by the electors at large, of the Stale, and his compensal ion shall be fixed by law, and his duties prescribed by law, and by lli^ rules of the Supreme Court. Sec. 10. No person shall be eligible to the office of Justice of the Supreme Court, unless he shall have been admitted to practice law in the Supreme Court of the Territory or State of Montana, be at least thirty years of age, and a citizen of the United States, iinr unless he shall have resided in said Territory or State at least two years next preceding his election. District Court. Sec. II. The District Court shall have original jurisdiction in all cases at law, and in equity, including all cases which involve the title or right of possession of real property, or the legality of any tax, impost, assessment, toll or municipal fine, and in all cases in which the debt, dam- age, claim or demand, exriusive of interest, or the value of the properly in controversy exceeds fifty dollars: and in all criminal cases amounting to felony and all cases of misdemeanor not otherwise provided for: of actions of forcible entry and unlawful detainer; of proceedings in insolvency; of actions to prevent or abate a nuisance; of all matters of pro- hate; of actions of divorce and for annuUment of marriage, and of ail such special actions and proceedings as are not otherwise provided for. And said Courts shall have the power'of naturalization, and to issue papers therefor in all cases where they are authorized so to do by the laws of the United States. They shall have appellate Jurisdiction in such cases arising in .justices and other inferior courts in their resprctive districts as may be prescribetl by law and consistent with Ibis (lonstitulion. Their process shall extend to all parts of the State, iirovided that all action for recovery of, the possession of, quieting the title to, or for the enforcement of liens upon real property shall be commenced in the coun- ty in which the real property, or any part thereof, affected by such ac- tion or actions, is situated. Said courts and the judges thi'icdf shall have power also to issue, hear and determine, writs of niaiidamus, qou wai'panto, certiorari, proliibition, iiijunclion and oilier original and rem- edial writs, and also all writs of hahea.s coi-piis, on petition by, or on behalf of, any person in actual custody in their respective districts. Injunctions, writs of pi-ohihitioii, and habea.s corpus, may be issued and served on legal holidays and non-judicial days. Sec. 12. The State shall be divided into judicial ilistiicis in eacli of which there shall be elected by the electors thereof one judge of the Dis- trict Court, whose term of office shall be four years, except that the district judges first elected shall hold their offices only until the gener- al election in the year IHi)2, and until tlieir successors ar(> elected and qualified. Any judge of the District Court may hold court for any dlber district judge," and shall do so when required by law . Sec. 13. Until otherwise proviried by law, said districts shall be constituted as follows: i^'irst District, Lewis and Clarke county. Second District, Silver Bow county: Third District, Deer Lodge county; Fourth District, Missoula county; Fifth District, (iallatin county; Sixth District, Jidterson county: Seventh District, Custer county: Eighth District, Beaver- head and Madison counties; Ninth District. I'ark and Yellowstone counties; Tenth District, Cascade and Meagher counties; Eleventh District, l'"ergus and Dawson counties; 'I'welfth District, Choteau county. Sec. 14. The Legislative .\ssembly may increase or decrease the numbei' of judges in any judicial district: Provided, That there shall be at least one judge in any district established by law: and may divide the Slate, or any part thereof, into new districts; Provided. That each be formed of compact territory and he bounded by county liiii's. but no CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION IHKil 153 clianjifs in tlii» number or hoiinilanos of districts shall work a romoval of any jurlKe from office during the term for which he has been elected or ai)poinled. Sec. 15. \\ lits of error and appeals shall be allowed from the deci- sions of the said district court to the Supreme court, under such regu- lations as ina.v be i)rescribed by law. Sec. It'i. ,\o person shall l)e eligible to the office of Judge of the District tjiurl unless he be at least Iwenty-five years of age, and a cilizen of the I'nited States, and shall have been admitted to practice law 111 the Supreme Court of the Territory or State of .Montana, nor unless he shall have resided in the Slate or Territory at least one year next pieceding his election. He need not be a resident of the district for which he is elected at the time of his election, hut after his election lu: shall reside in the district for which he is elected rluring his term of office. Sec. IT. Thi^ District Court in each county, which is a Judicial District by itself, shall be always open for the transaction of business, except on legal holidays and non-judicial days. In districts where two or more counties are united, until otiierwise provided by law, tlie district judges shall fix the terms of court, provided that there shall be at least four terms a year held in each county. Sec. 18. There shall be a clerk of the District Court in each county, who shall be elected by the electors of his county. The clerk shall be elected at the same time and for the same term as other county officers. 'I'he duties and compensation of the District Clerk shall be as provided by law. County Attorneys. Sec. lit. There shall be elected at the general election in each county of the state, one County Attorney, whose qualifications shall be the same as are required for Judges of the District Courts, except that he need not be over twenty one years of age and whose term of office shall be two years. He shall have a -salary to he fixed by law. One-half of which shall be paid by the state and one-half by the county m which he is elected; he shall in addition to said salary receive such fees as may be provided by the Legislative Assembly and shall perform such duties as may be required by law. Sec, 21. Justices Courts shall not have jurisdiction in any case in- volving the title or right of possession of real property, nor in cases of ilnorce, nor for annullment of marriage, nor of cases in equity nor shall they have power tci issue writs of habeas corpus, mandamus, cer- tiorari, quo warranto, injunction-, or prohibition, nor the power of nat- uralization; nor shall they have jurisdiction in cases of felony, except as examining courts: nor shall criminal cases in said courts he prosecuted by indictments: hut said coui'ls shall have such jurisdiction in criminal matters, not of the grade (d' felony, as may be iirovided by law: and shall also have concurrent jui-isdiction with the District Court, in cases of forcible entry and unlawful detainer. Sec. 22. .Iiistices Ourls shall always be open for the transaction- of business, except on legal holidays and non-judicial days. Sec. 23. Appeals shall be allowed from Justices Courts, in all cases, to the District Courts, in such manner and under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. iSi I'ROCEEOrNdS AM) DEBATES Pdlicc and Munii'ipal Courts. See. 21. The Lpf;i.-\' Civil .Action, ami law and equity may be administered in the same action. Sec. 29. The justices of the Supreme Court and tlie judges of the District Courts shall each he paid t|uarterly a salary, which shall not he increased or diminished during the term for which they shall have been elected. The salaries of the justices of the Supreme court shall be paid by the State. One-half of the salary of each district judge shall be paid by the State, and the other half shall be paid by the county, where only one county is included in a Judicial District; and wh(>i'e more than oiH! county is included in a Judicial District, the said other half of saiii salary shall be paid by the counties included in said disti'ict, in pro- portion to the amount of assessable property in each of such counties according to the lasl general assessment for taxation. Until other- wise jirovided by law, Justices of the Supreme C(.iurl stiall be paid a salai'y of five thousand dollars per annum each. Until otherwisi' provided by law the salaries of the several District Judges shall be as follows; That of the Judges of the Eirst, Second and Third Districts. Four Thousand Dollars per annum each. That of the Judges of the Fourth, l-'ifth. Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Tenth, Eleventh and Twelfth Dis- tricts, Three T'housand Dollars per annum each. .\nd that of ttie Jutlge of the iN'inlh District, Thirty-five Hundred Dollars per annum. Sec. 30. No Judge of the Supreme or District Court shall accept or receive any comijensation, fee, perquisite or emolument for or on account of his office m any form whatever, exceiit the salary provided by law. Sec. 31. No Judge, or Clerk of the Supreme Courl, or nf any District Court, shall act or practice as an attorney, or counsellor at law in any court in this State during his continuance in office. Sec. 32. The Legislative Assembly may pro\ide for tin' publication of decisions and opinions of the Supr(Mne Court. Sec. 33. All officers jjrovided for in this article, excepting Judges of the Supreme Court, who shall reside within the State, shall respectively J'eside during their term of office in the District, County. T'ownship, Precinct, City or Town for which lliey may be elected or appointed. Sec. 3i. Vacancies in the office of the Supreme or Dislrict Court or Clerk of the Supreme Court shall be filled by appointment, by the (iovernor <^\' the Slate, and \acancies in the office of County .Xltorm'y, or Clerk of the District Court and Justices id' the Peace sliall be filled l)y appointment by I be lioard (d' County Oimmissioners of the County where such vacancy occurs. ,\ person aiipoiiiti'd lo fill any such \acancy shall hold his office until the next general election, and until his suc- cessor is elected and qualified. .\ person elected to fill a vacancy shall hold office until the exi)iralion of the t(>rm for which the person ho succeeds was elected. Sec. 35. No Justice of the Supreme Court or District .lodge siiall hold any other public office wliile lie remains in' the cdfice to which he has been elected or apiiomted. Sec. 3(). A cause in tin' District Court may be tried by a Judge pro tempore who must be a member (d' the bar, agreed upon in writing by tile parties litigant, or their attorneys cd' reconi. approved by tlie court. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 155 and sworn to try tlie cause: ami in sui-li cast' any order, judgment, or decree, made or rendered tliereni by such Judge pro tempore, shall have the same torce and eflect as if made or rendered by the court with the regular Judge presiding. Sec. 37. .\ny Judicial ofticer who shall absent himself from the -•ilate for more than sixty consecutive days shall be deemed to have forfeited his id'fice. The Clerk again read as lolldws: ".Mr. MresidenI: 1 am instructed by the Committee on Judiciary and Judicial Departments, including Pardoning Power, to report the fol- lowing, and to recommend its incdiporation into the Constitution as the .\rticle on Paidoning Power." 'Signed DI.XON, Chairman. .\HX1CLK UN JLUICIAL DEPAKl .\IKN IS. Article Pardoning Power. Section t. ihe (jovernor shall have the powt^r to grant pardons, absolute or conditional, and to remit fines and forfeitures, and to grant commutation of punishments and respites after conviction and judgment for any offenses committed against the criminal laws of the State: Pro- vided, however. That before granting pardons, remitting fines and for- feitures, or commuting punishments, the action of the Governor con- cerning the same shall be approved by a Board, or a majority thereof, composed of the Secretary of State, .\ttorney Oeneral and State .\uditor, who shall be known as a Board of Pardons. Sec. 2. The Legislative .Assembly shall by law prescribe the sessions of said Board, and the manner in which applications shall be made, and legulate the proceedings thereon. But no fine or forfeiture shall be re- mitted, and no commutation or pardon granted, except upon the ap- Itroval of a majority of said Board, after a full hearing in open session, and until proofs, notice of time and place of hearing, and the relief applied for shall be given by publication in some newspaper of general circulation in the county where the crime was committed, at least once a week tor two weeks. The proceedings and decision of the Board shall be reduced to writing, and with their reasons for their action in each case, and the dissent of any member who may disagree, signed by them, and filed, with all papers used upon the hearing, in the office of the Secretary of State. Sec. 3. The Governor shall communicate to the Legislative Assembly, at each regular session, each case or remission of fine or forfeiture, re- pi'ieve. commutation or pardon granted since the last previous report, slating the name of the convict, the crime of which he was convicted, the sentence and its date, and the date of remission, commutation, pardon or reprieve, with the reason for granting the same, and the objections, it any, of any member of the Board made thereto. The President; What is tlie pleasure of the Convention? Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: .Mr. President. I move that the Convention do resolve itself into a Committee of the \\ hole for the consideration of the Oeneral File. The motion was seconderl. -Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: Before that motion is put. as a matter of privilege, may i ask for leave of absence until Monday? The President: The gentleman will be excused until .Monday, if • there be no objection. The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman Irom Silver Bow, that the Convention resolve itself into a Committee of the \\'hole for the consideration of the General File, and the same was declared carried. The President called the gentleman from Madison. Mr. Callaway, to the Chair. 156 I^ROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES IN C(JMMliTEE OF W HOLE. .Mr. (lallavvay, of Madi.son. iii Hit- Chair. The Coniinittoe was called to order. The Chairman: The Committee had under consideration llir amend- ment offered by tlie gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (o Sections 13 and 14. The gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Clark offers an amendment to tliat substitute. The substitute is as follows: "The use of all water now appropriated, or that may hereafter be appropriated, for sale, rental, distribution or other beneficial use, and the right of way over the lands of others for all ditches, drains, flumes, canals and aqueducts necessarily used in connection therewith, as well as the sites for reservoirs necessary for collecting and storing the same, shall be held to be a public use." Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I move to amend by striking out the w'ord "and" before the word "aqueducts," and insert the words "and roads ' after the word "aqueducts." Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis e^: Clarke, called for the reading of the substitute as amended. The Clerk read same. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis \ Clarke: 1 take it, Mr. Chairman, that the object of the gentleman wlio introduces that, is that he does not mean to confine the meaning of roads simply that are used in connection with irrigating diiches, but that it is for the purpose of allowing the condemnation of private property for private ways: or is it intended to embrace roads to ue used in connection with irrigating ditches, flumes, etc? Mr, Clark, of Silver Bow: I would state to the gentleman from' Lewis & Clarke my oiijcd in inserting that word "roads" was to cover such roads as would be necessary m building reservoirs. It would be neces- sary to have a private way in building reservoirs and improvements of that character, and it is simply to include the use of those ways. Now there is another matter that 1 feel ought to be incorporated, unless it is covered by the principle of eminent domain, and that is with regard to roads built for the purpose of gaining access to mining property. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I think the section amply covers that now, as it stands, upon the principle that when the condeinnation shall l)a\e taken place that these private ways are open to the public use, and I believe it is sufficiently provided for under the general propo- sition that private property sliall not be taken for public use without just compensation, and the money paid for the owner, if possible, into court. It is certainly embodied in that, and it rests upon the proposition that when condemnation is had, even to a private way, that after it is once established, it is for public use likewise, and not simply for the use of the Individual to whom it is granted. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: I would state in relation lo that, that when we use the term "road" we mean a public highway, and that comes williin the general powers of the government to establish rules. One of the functions of the government is to establish rules, and the onl>- provision is that this bill of rights embodied in the Constitution shall not, take private properf>' for prixate use; that is, taking it for a road without just compensation, 't'hen there is a broader line, in which there is a conflict (i\' decisions, and that is what is called "private ways.' Now I find, as laid down in Lewis on Kminent Domain, the courts have held that whei'e roads of necessity connect a farm with a public highway or a public iilace of resort, and e\ei'ybody has a rigtit to travel on it, lliat it is a public higliway. The title does not pass from Ihe party. But where, as in the case of a private highway, the titl(> lo the way passes to the man and his assigns, that is taking private property for pi'ivati^ use and unless fhei'e is some provisions of the Constitution allowing' that. it cannot be done. I believe in this old Bill of Rights here before it was amended — ttiey used the words "private ways of necessity": and llicn left with the legislature to provide what should be a necessity, Mr. Clark, o( Silver Bow: I do not desire lo complicate this question, and therefore withdraw my motion in favor of the original proposition. The Chairman: The gentleman from Silver Bow withdraws his amendment. The question now is ui)on the substitute offered by the gentleman from Lewis i\: Clarke. CONSTITUTION. \I. C.i ).\VE.NlIO.\ 1889 157 The Cliair then put the question on I he motion of the substitute offered by .Mr. Toole of Lewis (.S: Clarice, and the same was declared car- ried, and adopted m lieu of Sections 13 and li. The Chairman: This, (ienlleineii (d' I he Committee, disposes of Gen- eral l<'ile No. 1. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman, I move that -the Committee do now arise, and instruct the tlhairman tn reiiort l""ile No. 1 to the Con- \ention with llie ainendmenis as passed. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I trust tlie j;enUeman will withdraw that motion for a moment. Mr. .Mayger. (d' Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, in Section 15 as adopted yesterday bv the Committee of tlie Whole, in the fdfirth line, it reads, "and a speedy public trial by an impartial jury m the county or district in which the offense has been committed." I would like to ask for information of this Convention, does not that include the right of a man to take a change of venue, for instance, from this county into an- other district, if he' cannot, for any reason, be trHHl by a jury in his own county? The Chairman: 1 would inform the gentleman that after a section is passed we cannot return to the consideration of it. Mr. J, 1\. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, asked for the unanimous consent to recur to the consideration of the section. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, there are two sections I desire to amend, 1st, amend Section 17 by inserting therein, after the words "error of law," in line 3, as follows: "or, if any jury or the Judge of the court shall from sickness or other cause become unable to act after the impanelling of the jury." I will state that Section 17 reads as follows: "That no person shall be compelled to testify against him- self in a criminal case, nor shall any person be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense if the jury disagree, or if the judgment be arrested after verdict, or if the verdict be arrested by error of law, the accused shall not be deemed to have been in jeopardy." Now this amendment comes in after the words "error of law." The amendment was seconded. The Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodge asks unanimous consent to recur to Section 17, for the purpose of offering an amend- ment. If there be no objection it is so ordered. Till' Clerk read the amendmenl. The Chair then put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Robinson: I now- desire to amend Section 15, which I will read, by inserting after the word "behalf," on line 3, "under such regulations as the Legislature may prescribe as to paying for their attendance and process. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the question. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I will state to the Convention the object in offering that amendment is that, as the Section now reads the construction that would probably be idaced upon it would be the proper construction, — that in all these criminal processes the defendant would have the right to call anv number of witnesses. The Section reads "In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall liave the right to appear and defend in person and by counsel: to demand the nature and cause of the accusation: to meet the witnesses against him face to face: to have process to compel the attendance of witnesses in his behalf," etc. Now, as that stands, tlie interpretation would be that no legislation could be had except on the basis that the State would be compelled to pay for an unlimited number of witnesses the defendant might see proper to order. The idea is to place it in such a position as to limit the number of witnesses the State will pay for, and for process, and such things as that. The idea is to place the matter in such a condi- dition that if the Legislature sees fit to limit the number of witnesses that the State shall pay for the defendant, that it may do so. In many of the states of the Union— it is so in the United States courts, and the United States does not pay for the witnesses of the defendant at all- in some of the states they pay for a limited number, and pay for them only on the order of the Judge that the witnesses are necessary. Now my object is to place that in the Constitution in a condition so that the 158 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Li'yislalure of .Montana iHM'Paltcr may rcyulah' lliat if tlii'y desire it. As a question of praclice, we Know tiiat an unlimited numlier of witnesser- ai-e summoned witliout any use whatever, liecause tliey can get tlieir attendance witliout eosting the defendant anvlhing. Ttie "object i.< io put a elieclv on ttiat if the Legislature sees fit to. .\lr. DurfcLs of Deer lAidge: I am in favor of llie aineiKfmcnt pro- liiisi'd ny Mr. Hotjinson for this reason: wlien I was jjioseeutor of Deer Lodge county, a ease came uiuler my observation where the defense summoned nineteen witnesses, not one of wliom was iilaced upon the stand. Those nineteen witnesses cost the county sometliing over seven hundred dollars, l-'or that reason I am in favor of something of the icind being «einhodieil in the Const itulKui. The Clerk read the Section as conlemiilaleil b\ Ihe amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, il .seeni.s to me we are tread- ing on dangerous ground when we undertake to go in and limit the number of witnesses that the defendant may call in his defense. 1 do not believe there is very much danger of abusing this right. It is true that the gentleman from Deer Lodge may be alarmed on account of Ihere having been more witnesses summoned in a certain criminal action in his county than may have been necessary. I have seen thai thing done. But I do not believe it can be limited with safely to the honest and fair administration of the criminal law. I know that there are frequently more witnesses summoned than are necessary: but how does the de- fendant know what is to be brought up against him? If there are ten witnesses summoned for Ihe prosecution, and there are eleven witnesses who know that he is innocent of the idiarge with which he is accused, and there is a preponderance of evidence, 1 know of no reason why he should be restricted to seven or eight or nine witnesses. It is true that in some cases it may be burdensome: but so is the administration of criminal law burdensome in any ease. But it is one of the rights guar- anteed by the Constitution, and it seems Io me that it is one of the most sacred rights written in the Constitution of the United States, or that can be written in the Constitution of Montana. T do not believe that it is safe to restrict: if I did. I would certainly vote for the amendment; but, believing, as I do, that it is not safe, t shall be compelled to vote against it: and 1 do not believe in the main there is danger of increasing the expenses unnecessarily in the administration of criminal law by allowing the defendant to summon the number of witnesses that he or his counsel may deem necessary to prosecute his defense. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I think the gentleman is laboring under a misapprehension. This amendment does not propose to limit it at all. but proposes to put flie Constitution in such shape that, if the Legislature sees fit hereafter to make this limitation, it shall have the right to do so. Mr. Burleigh: I am ojiiiosed tn thai, there are restrictions enough in it now. Mr. Collins, of Cascaile: 1 Ihink the amendment offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge is in Ihe line of reform, and I believe every gentleman in this room who has attended sessions of grand juries or district courts, or' has seen Ihe innumerable witnesses before probate courts and justices of the peaci\ who havi^ harl no business there at all except for the purpose of getting public senlimeni tn dismiss the prose- cution, will bear me out in my view of the mallei'. In a number of cases I have seen hordes of witnesses brought together for that purpose alone, and I believe this amendment of the gentleman from Deer l^oiige is greatly in Ihe line of refnrin, and I hope il will pass. It is not right Ihe people of Ihe Stale should be burdened with that class id' witnesses. .Mr. Luce, id' (iailatin: 1 do not understand thai the amendment is intended to limd Ihe number of witnesses, but the uuniber Ihe Slate shall pay for. The delendanl may have as many witnesses as he is able to bring. I am in favor of (he amendment. Mr. Burleigh, of Cusler: Thai is not the s|nril of the law— inter- rupted 1. The Chairman: The gentleman from Cusler is mil of order. The gentleman from Silver Bow has the floor. .Mr, Knowles, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, it is pro\iiled here (hat a man shall have comi>ulsory process for bis witnesses. Then it is pro- posed (o give (lie |)ower Io Ihe Legislature to say bow many of those CONSTITLTIONAI. CoN VK.Nl'H ».\ 1.S89 15L> wituessps the Stale stiall pay lor. .\ii\v. tiow does the wilnoss know thai he is one of the witnesses thai is going^ to be paid? Vou are going lo give a man tlie power to send out lor as many witnesses as he wants, and then you are going lo put a limitation on that and say that four. lor instance, only are to be paid tor. .Now, how does a man know that he is one of the four, and, as Dr. Burleigh has said, we are treading upon sarred ground here. It has been found by the experience of our race that men wlio are tried for offenses should have every facility to make a defense: that the courts should be open to'them; that they shoulil ha\'e jurors from the citizens of the county or the community \\liei-e they live lo try their offenses: that they should liave compulsory process lor witnesses — and because somebody has aliused this power, as in one instance cited here in Deer Lodge county, it is proposed to restrict this right — put it down to such number as the ijegislature may see fit. I think we had better stand by the old landmarks. \\e have grown up in these ways: we have become civilized — we have become a great people, and other nations are looking now to these common law principles. In Spain they have adopted this jury system and the right of compulsory process for witnesses: in Italy ihe'y have adopted it: and it is in the line of the protection of the people against arbitrary power. We have to some e.xtent abolished the grand jury system. .Now. let us not make an entile reformation in this matter — do not think that we are so much wiser than our fathers about this matter and try to put in a clause here that would inaugurate an era of littleness. — which is about the amount of it. It is not every man that is accused of crime that is guilty. I'here is a disposition in some quarters lo cry out whenever a man is accused of crime that he is guilty. There is not a homicide committed in the country lliat every newspaper which discusses the matter does not de- nounce as a murder at the start, ".\nother .Murder." They do not stop to consider any of the circumstances at all: and 1 think it is time for us to pause awhile in this career and consider for a moment that the rights of the citizen should be protected. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like to make a few remarks more in connection with what the gentleman from Deer Lodge has so justly stated, but I would like to hear this matter discussed a little more lib- erally, for it is a matter of great importance, by some of the older members upon this floor, for whom I have great respect. It is no new question: it is one that has agitated the public mind for one thousand years. Tlie time once was when the go\ eminent, m the hands of a despot, could go out and take one of its subjects, and go into a sliam investiga- tion into the cause of his guilt, and if it was deemed necessary to convict him without witnesses, without counsel, without forms of law: and to r very great extent if is carried on now in some parts of the world, and in some parts of what is termed the civilized world. Why is it that the government is allowed to go out, on suspicion., and lay its heavy hand upon one ol its citizens, deprive him of liberty, lock him up and cliarge him with the crime of murder, larceny, or any other crime? It > an arbitrary and despotic power, but it has been deemed necessary lo tolerate it under certain restriclions for the safety of the Slate. 'I'hen what? The government says by way of recompense, "this man shall have a right to a fair and impartial trial by a jury of his peers: he siiall nave compulsory process to produce witnesses in supoprt of his inno:-ence: and while he goes into court with tlie heavy hand of the law laid upon him. nevertheless, he shall have an impartial trial, and he shall have compulsory process to bring the witnesses in to prove iiis innocence."' The government of the United Stales and the government of England, for the last five hundred years, has not gone beyond that; and now to come in here and require a man upon whom suspicion, per- haps unfortunately, may rest to be deprived of the full measure of pro- tection which the" Constitution of England and the Constitution of this country has thrown around him, seems to me lo be a step backwards and in favor of the arbitrary, despotic power. The Chairman: How can a Legislature determine in any case how many witnesses a man should have? .Mr. Burleigh: It can no more determine it than we can determine how many angels there are required to surround the throne of God and keep it in place: and I shall vote against this amendment. 100 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Tlip question on Ihi" motion ol' tlii> K^'ntlcnian Ironi Di'it l.odge was tlien put, and declared lost. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis A Clarice, sent up an amendment to Sec- tion 15. The Chairman: 'J'lie geiilleman Irom 1-owis & Clarlie oilers the following amendment to Section 15: ".Amend Section 15 by addmg there- to the following: "suijjecl to the right of the State to have a change of venue for any of the causes lor which the defendant may obtain the same." rile ami'ndmcnl was secimdi'd. the Cliair put the question upon the amendment of thi' gentli'maii from Lewis & Clarke, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 desire to call the attention of the Convention to some provisions contained in Sections 15 and 1(5. I do noi_ know whether the members of the Convention have noticed the incon ' sistency that is presented in those two sections or not. It is this: llial in criminal prosecutions the accused shall have the right to defend, etc., "to meet the witnesses agamsl him face to face." That is an old con- .sfitutional guarantei'. so lar as lliat is concerned. .Now, what I desire to call the attention of the Convention to is this: Section 15 reads, "That no person shall be imprisoned for the purpose of securing his testimony 111 any case lunger Ihan shall be necessary to give his (iepositiiin: if he can give security for liis api)earance at the lime of trial he shall be dis- charged," etc. "If he cannot giv(> security, his deposition sliall be taken in the manner to be prescribed by law. This presents a legal contra- diction. 1 have not prepared an am(>ndment to it: liul as it stands it is a legal conundrum: that is, that the defendant shall bi' entilled to have his witnesses face to face before him, and that the witnesses shall not be imprisoned. .Now then, If a witness is brought up and reijuired to give security to appear for the [irosecution, why there is no oliject whatever in taking his deposition; it is a mere nullity. It is never re- quired that a witness be imprisoned on the part of the defense. This lias reference to the depositions on the part of the prosecution. Now llien, the first part of it is a contrailiction lo the second: it would require an entirely useless act to take the deposition of a witness for the prose- cution in a criminal case if he must meet the witness face to tace (rt>ad- ingi "If he cannot give security." "And if he cannot give security for his appearance at the next term of court, or won't do it — if h(> cannot give security, his deposition shall be taken in the manner to be pre- scribed by law. That provides for an entirely useless thing, and falls as a dead letter. There is a contradiction in that that cannot lie carried out. 1 trust that some member of the bar will find some way out of this difficulty by suggesting some amendment. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, I do not think Ihat iiro- vision is necessarily contradictory — that the deposition to be taken can only be taken in the presence of the accused. The accused would have the same opportunity to cross-examine the witnesses as he would on the trial. I know that the same provision is contained in the Constitution, and I never heard the question yet being raised. If it were taken with the purpose of secrecy, when the accused was not present, it would be ;i dilferent. matter: bill, as Hie mnlli'i' slands. 1 think the pro\-isioii is right. .Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: I would state that I have conversed with the Committee on the Bill of Rights, and they changed the old bill of rights in the Consfilulion of IKS'i for the very purpose of obviating the difficulty that the gentleman has pointed out. They claim, and I tliinU correctly, that llios(> two provision.s of the .\rticle are to be conslriied together, and that when the Legislature pr'ovides for taking a deposilion Ihe Legislature will provide thai llie prisoner must be present and have Hie right to cross-examine. It In' is in custody he must be broughl there by an officer: if he is not in custody, but on bail, he musi lie notified, and his attorney notified and i-eiiuired to be there for the pin'- pose of taking his deposition. So that I think those two i)rovisions will go well together. This provision about taking a deposilion on the part of the prosecution is a new one in a bill of rights, but still it is very unjust to a witness to confine him in ,jail with fifteen or twenty con- \icls for six months, as has been done in Ibis Territory in one or two instances, when there might be some provision or law by which his CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENIION 1889 IGl deposition could ue taken. The defendant would have the rij:ht to be present and cross-examine liim. and thi> indixidual liliei-ty ol the citizen- would be pi'eserved m that way. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman. I admit thai this is an in- vasion upon the old rule; hut smci' my residenci' m -Montana I tiave seen so many cases of extreme hardshi|) under tlic law as it now exists on our statute book, in taking poor and uuligcnt persons and thrusting them into jail, and keeping them there six months at a time, and at an expense to the county, that 1 believe this prmision has both .justice and merit in II: and m view of the fact thai when a deposition is taken there will he some provision made for the accused to confront the witnesses against him face to face, have all the advantages of cross-examination which he could have if present at the trial of the case in court. 1 do not think there is any extreme hardship in it: and it seems to me that if there is a hardship at all that it should be borne by the defendant in this case. It Certainly would be a great matter of economy, and it would save the incarceration of witnesses who have committed no crime, and who are consigned to cells, in some instances with felons — for ttiere have been cases here where the penitentiaries were so crowed that the telons were kept in the county .jails, and I have known where witnesses have been kept in jail in Custer i-ounty with felons, where there was no provision for taking theii- depositions— and I think the provision i3 a wise one under the circumstances. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis >.V Clarke: Mr. Chaiiman. I move to strike out tliat section — Section 1(5. or 17 as it will he renunihered. The motion was seconded. Mr. J. fv. Toole: Mr. Chairman, when this matter was considered before, it. seemed to me that it was a proper provision, but upon reflec- tion I am very much inclined to go with the gentleman from Deer Lodge. I believe that this right to meet the witnesses face to face, to be confronted with the witnesses against him, is a sacred right of the defendant, and that its importance cannot be overestimated. II may be true, sir, that the construction given to it by the gentleman — by meeting the witnesses and having the privilege and oppoitunity to cross-examine — may be construed to be meeting the witnesses against him face to face: but. sir. there is more involved in ttiat proiiosition than the mere fact of meeting the witnesses face to face. The defendant. wh(Mi he i< upon trial, charged with crime, is entitled to liave the witness brought face to face — to be confronted with him — in order that the jui'y charged to consider and determine the offense may look into his face and see wiiether he is testifying truthfully or not. It is not the mere statement, or the language which the party uses that entitles the witness to credence, but it is Ids hesitation — his halting — the very picture of perjury sometimes depicted upon his countenance — that stamps a witness frequently as a perjurer: so that I say that the constitutional provision guaranteeing to an individual the risht to meet the witness face to face and to be confronted with the witnesses against him ought to be broad enough and comprehensive enough in its signification to require that that wit ness shall appear before the court and before the jury, in order that those who are the only judges of the credibility of the witness may be able to see his manner — his deportment — the feeling, if any. which he manifests in giving his ti»stimony. It is true that it will save some cost and some expense, which in some instances would he a great hardship upon counties, or. possibly, upon the State: tint T believe that the great hentfit resulting to the defendant himself, to the people* who are inter- ested in seeing that there shall be a free, fair and impartial trial — the benefits that will accrue in the interests of justice will more than com- pensate for any matter of expense. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: It may be advantageous In the accused person to have the jury before whom the case is tried to look the witness in the face: but the old Constitution says that the witness shall meet the accused face to face, and I do not know- of any provision that the jury shall. Now then. I would undertake fo sav that if I were over here on Mount Helena, and were a stranger, and should be so unfortunate as to go down on .Main street and witness one of these affrays that sometimes happen here in this town, and a party should be killed in that affray, and I were unable to give security for my appearance in court, it would be a great hardship for me to have to go to jail and be incarcerated, as has been said here, with felons, until such time as the court might get 162 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES ready to fry the case. .Now. if a speedy trial could always l)e assured, and the case would be tried the first term, there might not be much hardship in it: but you know that these cases are continued from day to day and from term to term. And, sir. would it not work delrunentally to the criminal .jurisprudence of this State in this way: that if the wit- nesses themselve.* think tlial they will be incarcerated if they give up the knowledge that they know something about a criminal case, why 1 undertake to sa\' Itiat tliere are men who are not so patriotic and not so much imbued with the idea of the expression of ads well, ami upon its face looks as though he was telling the truth and the whole truth; but when the same witness would be subject to the scrutiny of a jury and a court, and put upon a cross-examination uiion the trial, it would be apparent that the witness was fabricating his story from beginning to end; and I am not in favor of permitting the provision to remain in tlie (Constitution, but am in favor of striking it out. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Ctiairman, I do not understand that this Article 6 in the Constitution of the United States applies in any way to prosecutions for state offenses; it only applies to proceedings in the federal courts, the same as Article 5 of the Constitution of the United States, which says "No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentation or indictment of a grand jury." Ttiat has already been passed upon by this Ciinvention. I'.ut none of these sections of Ihe Constitution of the United States apply except where a limitation is placed upon the State itsiMf to make Ihe law. Now. in regard to this particular question. I think it has been ruled m several states, where an examination was had before a com- iiiilting magistrate or coroner, or justice of the peace, for instance, and lli;:t testimony is certified to by the magistrate, that it was admissible in testimony in case of the absence or ileatli of the witness who lestifipd, provided the testimony was given in the presence of the accused. It seems to me that this is a very proper provision in our Constitution, though, of course, left to the Legislature to carry into effect as it will. The very great iiardshiiis imposed upiui witnesses in so many cases by reason of being imprisoned because ttiey happen to be deserving, worthy, poor men. but still away from friends who could give the bail required. IS sufficient argument in itself in favor d with the witness against him, face to face, in the court room; ami in Ihal way, and in that way only, can you secure the fullest rights to Ihi- person before a jury on trial for a crime. 1 hope that section will tie stricken out. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: .Now, Mr. Chairman, wliile I dislike, very mucti, lo consume the valuable time o( this Committee, [ think that my friend is a good deal in the condition that tlie prophet told King Saul he was, — he has become so much inleresteil in this case ttial he is liableto the accusation that the zeal of his house lialh eaten him up. Now, I liave known, in (busier county, within the last three or four years, cases where men were held as \Vitnesses, were unable to give the neces- sar\' bail tor Iheir apiiearance in coui'l. and were incarcerated m Mie couiily jail with felons. Tliat was wlien the jienitentiary at Di'er Lodge was so overloaded that they were compelled lo emiiloy the aulliorllies of \ Custer county to keep their fidons in that jail. .Now. in regard to tliis liardship that scarcely ever occurs, it occurs to me llial il was noi very many years ago that a man was Iraxcling through on nnc of lhesi> railroads with his familx'. to seek his home in the West; lie happened to get out at a slation. and llieri' he wiliiessed a murderous assaull b.\- oni' man upon another, lie was detained, lie had a wife and six little (diildren. and they were going through to Wasliingloii. He wa-: compelled lo lake his family off from the train, anil was kept there, and instead of being kepi lliej-e al three dollars per day. all they were al- Irwed was two dollars a day. It the gentleman will look at the Compiled Slatiites, page i03, at Seclion lOL'. Ii(» will liiid Iwo dollars a day prescribed by slatiite. .\ow, wliat has occurred may occur again, and it is an abom- r.oNsi rrriKiNAi. Cd.WKMin.N iss'.i icc, inalilp iKirdsliip to taki' a man from his liomc simiily Ijpcausi' lio is a lahoriiij; man, antl to lock lum up in tlii* rounty jail wpck after week aiul month aftor month to testify in a criminal case, when all Ihe pui-- poses of .justice coviki be answereil as well hy takmy liim before a nia^'is- liale. in llic presence of the state's attorney, or Ihe county attorney, nuil in the presence of the attorney for the accused, and there take his depo- sition in Ihe solemn manner, under Ihe security guaranteed by a rigid cross-examination. I have known cases where women were depriM'd of their liberty in this way. Of course, in thi' humane county of Park, it may not occur — up in tlie county of Park, where the Sheriff does not discharge bis duty according to Ihe letter of Ihe law. and lets prisoners of lliis charactei' run at large. But I am now speaking of a county where the law is administered hy its officers, and I am speaking of the hard- ship umler Ihe adminislration of the law as known to the statutes of the Territory. 1 hope lliat clause will not he stricken out. I believe that the same justice can be secured to the 8late and Ihe defendant under the honest administration of that law as under any oilier, and that every conslilutional guarantee will be secured to the accused, and much will be saved to the commoiiweailb by enacting this as it stands in the report of Ihe Committee. Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: As has been said li\ Ihe gentleman from Lewis it Clarke, 'Mr, Carpenter , this proliiliilion or limitation, as found in the amendment to tlie Constitution, is only a limitation upon Ihe pow^r of the general governm(>nt; it is a limitation thai does not affect the stales: and, as is further said. Ibis matter of meeting a witness face to face, it has been held hy the courts that where a witness had ap- I'eared U|)nn a prelimiiiai'y examination, and upon cross-examinalion there l)\- the didendant, and had died or departed from the State, that his deiiosilion taken on the preliminary examination coubl be introduced in evidence: that that was confronting the d(deiidant face to face. Fn regard to Ibis matter of having a witness upon Ihe stand, the gentlemen seem to put It all upon the ground that it Is necessary in order that they ■nay show thai the party is not a prejudiced witness, or something of llial kind. Now it is well known, as the yenllenien say here tha"t a dep- osition does not have the same force anil effect as Ihe examination of a witness Ixdore a jury, and if there is anybody to be damaged in taking Ins deposition and having that testimony introduced, I think it is llie [iroseculion and not the defense. Ihe dcd'endaiit can have every oppoi- Lunity for cross examining the witness. Now. in order that this Ibeoi'y may be carried oul by the gentlemen we turn in and deprne a man of his liberty. That is usually only for Ihe punishment of criminal?. It is a right that is sacred. If any man iteprives another of his liberty he is generally, under Ihe laws of every state, considered to be guilty (d a felony: and here they pro|)ose to do this thing in order thai a man may lie a witness, and that he may appear at the trial: and it is just the* same whether he is an immaterial witness or a very material one: he is held there just the same. The gentlemen seem to have a sort of hoslilily to a man who is found in this country that cannot produce four or five hundred dollars. Now there are a goinl many of us in this country that were strangers in times past, and eviMi if we were pretty well known we could not have [iroduced two. or three, or four hundred dollars. .Mr. Jo.v, of Park: Then you would have been willing to work at lliree d(dlars a day and get some money, wouldn't you Judge.' Mr. Knowles, id' SiUcr Bow: Not iii jail. No Sir. [ never wanted any I'lnployment there. Voo. must remember that this is a new country, that people are coining here ami are coming here with a view of making their homes, and a great many of them have very little money, and it will be very difficult for them to raise Ibis money. I know a case where a young fellow over here in Deer Lodge county was sent to jail. Here lie was a goml, bard workiu'-; young Swede, an honest young fellow: but nobody knew him well enough to go on his bond. .\nd now tlieie is a good deal to be saiil about this tiling in another way — just as has been said here about people traveling. .Now I know of a case where Jack Demers, who died here recently, was in Chicago and was robbed there, and he went to some of his friends about trying to do something, and they sant that if he made any fuss about the matter, why. it would cost him a good deal: they said "the magistrate will bind you over under very heavy lionds, 0[- you will have to go to jail, and unless you have got friends l(;o PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES eiiouj^li lierc in Cliicaf;i) to givi; thcsi; bonds, why j'ou will have to yo there and eoiiiniunieate with your friends in Montana: and if you do give bonds and go back to Montana, you will have to come back here for the trial of the case, and when you get here the other party wont he rrady tor (rial." So JacK jiut his hands in his ijocket, and went down and li(iiif;lil. his railroad ticket and started for home, and said nothing about it. Hoblied m broad daylight, anti yet he i)acked up and quit, and did nol stay there, because he could not aftord to t)e a wUness. t'here are a great many cases like that, where men have just kept their' mouths shut: and certainly, if I was a stranger, and knew anything about il, 1 do not care how great a crime, 1 would just keep my mnulh shut. .\ow I can't concenc lliat Ibis is a great hanlshiii. I ci'ilamly am as lenient towards criniinais, 1 think, as any attorney m the 'rerritury. I want them to be eonfroiited by the witnesses; aiul it is only, remember, when these witnesses are out of the Territory, when lhe\- eaiinot be brought iiiln the court on a subpoena, that these depositions are to be reail — when they are dead ov out of the Territory so that they cannot be brought in, then Iboir depositions can be used. Now those are the only cases, and It will not b(! many cases, even where men are let out on bond, that they will not be here in the country. Hut the other rule is getting to be quite common; it didn't used to be that way: but now it is getting quite common for a prosecuting officer to ask that the witnesses all give bonds to njipear before the grand jury, so that those that cannot give bonds, why. pack them away to the jau. And it may be that they have a great many liberties about the jail; but while they are in jail, a place wMiere It IS a disgrace for a man to be: that is one of the facts about it; and there is not any man of fine feelings, any man of character, any man that has a proper regard for. the fitness of things, that wants to be confined in a jail. And these things are worthy of consideration. Look not so much at the confronting part of it — having a man before a jury to be cross- e.xamined by the defendant, but look at the witness that is there and subjected to this sort of punishment; look at him and consider his con- dition awhile; and it seems to me, undei'' these circumstances, we will ciinelude that it is proper very often that a deposition should be taken. Mr. .Marshall, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I have been forty-seven >ears a practicing lawy(>er. I inner saw a witness confined in jail simply because he was a witness in my life. I never knew any law beb^re that aufhiii'ized it. In l^eiitucky, where 1 have practiced, witnesses are al- way:s released upon their own recognizance: If a witness fails to attend upon a subpoena, or in obedience to his recognizance, he is guilty of a coiitemjjt of court, and he is then put in jail anu required to give bond, with security, for his appearance. And I will say that it does seem to me actually horrible, tlie idea of putting a perfectly innocent man In jail, not accused of any crime, and kept in there for months, maybe, because he is a poor man, unable to give bail for his aiipearance: and afterwards il turns out that there was no offense conuiiitled at all; and it does seem to me that if tbei'e is any way of avoiding lliat thing wi^ oiiglit to fix it up now; certainly, instead of kei^ping the witness m jail, let us let him giN'e his dei)osition. if it is competent, and I am inclined to think it has been sn heht by courls. wliere the defenilant was pi-esen! and had an oppiirtunity to cross-examine before tlie magistrate wlin look his depusi- tioii, that that was a compliance with the law which said that he had a right to be confronted face to face. I know that il has been held by some of the courts; but even if that is not so, do not let us fix a plan liy which innocent people can be held in jail. T,et us try it anyhow. We are not a court, and let us fix it so that we can let them give their dejiositions and go. I am not in favor of striking this out. I beli(>ve I would vote to amend it so that no witness should ever be imiu'isoned as a mere witness, but if wt> provide that his deiiositinn may be laken. and afti'r that he may be released, it seems to me that that is sufficient, and I shall vote for the proposition as it now stands in the Rill id' Kiglits. The Cliair put the motion, and the same was ileclared lost. \lc. Dixdii. oi siher Bow, sent up an amiuidmenl. The Chairman: 'I'he gentleman from Silver Hnw moves to amend Section Ki liy adding thereto the following, "and in llie i)resenci' of (he acrusi'd anil Ins counsel." 'I'he motion was seconded. Till' Cliair put tlie motion, and the sann^ was di'clared carrii'd. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKNTloN IS.Sit 1(17 Mr. J. K. Toole, of Li-wis it Clark"': Mi'. C.hairniaii. I movi' l.\cept such persons as may be ex- empted liy the laws of the State, or of the United Slates,"' .Mr. .Marion, of Missoula, sent up an amendmenU The Chairman: The gentleman from .Missoula moves to amend by sinking out the word "citizens, in line 1 (d' Section 1. and inserting in lieu lher'e(d" the word '"residents." The motion was seconded. Mr. .Marion, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, my objection is simply this. It seems to me thai it is unfair to each and every citizen between Ihe age of eighteen and forty-fi\e to be called niton in case id' necessity and to leave those men who come here from foreign countries, accumulate wealth here, and claim proleclion from our government, that Ihey should be left aside and should not be compelled, as well as a citizen, to help defend ithe country. That is the only reason why I offiT the amendment, and I hope it will prevail. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: Mr, Chairman, I doubt whether we can do that. I do not think we can make every resident of the Territory perform military duty here. 1 think, if we should attempt to do that, and imiiress the citizens of a foreign country, that they could claim the same dul\- from us, and I am opposeil. under those circumstances, !f.8 l'|{-. We lia\i' n-j- iilcnls ourselves in loreif;n cduiitni's llial nie doiii{i liiisiness in Knt^land and in France, in Soiitli America and in CliJna; and we wniild nol want Id establisli Ihe rule lliat tliose ^(i\ernnrents should call upon them to perloi-ni military duily. I ttiink this niifiht hi- amendeil so as to read, "residents who are citizens, or who ha\e declared tlieir intention of liecoming such. that mit;ht lie dune, j-inl hi say thai all n'sideiits in the 'Territory sliall he suhject to mi!ilar\ dnl> in .Ihe State. I doulit our power to compel that, and i should lie opposed t" il. Mr. Marion, of Missoula: It you will allnw me, 1 will read Inim Ihe ^institution n\ (Colorado, where it says, in Si'ction I. Ihal Ihe militia id' the State shall consist of e\ei'y ahle-hodied male resident of the State between the ages of eight.iM'ii and riii'l\ -five years, excepi such persons as may tie exempt by the law's cd' Itie United States, (ir nf ihe State. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: .Mr. (lliairman. I do nol kiiuv wtiat Itiat exemption comprises or comprehends. 1 am not familiar eiioiij^h wilti 'the laws of the United States to know whether that exempts residents or citizens of foreign countries or not; but, if not, il certainly would lie a very unjust provision to adopt in the (Tonstitulion id' this State, l.et us take it home to ourselves. Suppose any of us should be traveling abroad, in foreign countries, and he suliject to military duty at the caprice (d' some recruiting officer, and pi'essed into serxice: we would consider it an abridgment of our rights as American citizens, and no clouht our (iovr'rnment would be called upon to protect us. .Now we should accord the same rights to people of other countries that we ex- pect to be accor(ied us, and it certainly would be a very un,jusl iirnvision. unless this provision which the gentleman quotes is comprehensive enough to exclude the residents or citizens of foreign countries. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, granting that we have the power to make all residents between these ages subject to military duty, whether citizens or nol, I doubt very much Ihe iiraclicaliility r,i including them. If a resilient of this State- is not sufficiently interested in the affairs of this State anri government to become a citizen, or to de- clare his intention of becoming a citizen, we do nol want him in the mililia. There may emin-gencies arise wlliere the loyally of the troops would be very much involveil, and where the citizens of the State would lie the most reliable, and uiioii them alone we should depend and on that account I think we hail betiler leave it as il slanils. The Chair put the question, and Ihe amendment was deciaieij lost. The Clei'k read Section 2, as follows: "Sec. 2. The l-.egislative Assembly shall provide by law tin- the organ- ization, equipment and discipline of the militia, and shall make rules and regulations for the government of 'Ihe same. The organization shall conform as nearly as practicable to the regulations for the ginernment of the armies of the Unitetl States." There being no amenitmenfs to Section 2, the Clei'k read Section 3. as follows: ','Sec. 3. The Legislati\e .Vssembly shall provide by law for niainlain- ing the militia by appropriations friun the treasury of the Stale." Tliere being no ameiidinents t(i Sei-tlnn .'.!. ttie Cli'rk rcid Section i, as follows: "Sec. 4. The Legislative Assembly shall provide by law for the safe f:eeping of the public arms, mililarv recnrds, relics ami banners of Ihe Slate." There being no ameiulments In Seclmn i. the Clerk I'ead S{'ction 5, as follows: "Sec. 5. W hen Ihe j^om'I'ihh' sliall. with llii' cunsenl (d Ihe l,ei:islati\ e yVssenibly, be out of the State m time id' war at llie head of any mililarx force thereof, he shall conlinue commander-incliief of all the mililai'\ forces of the State." There were no amendments In Seclnm ,">. Mr. .1. K. Toole, of Lewis i^ Clarke: .Mr. Chairman. I iiiii\e that tile Committee arise and report the .Vi'ticle hack, with the amendmeids witli the recommendation that it he adnpled by Ihe Cmix eiilion. The motion was iliily seconded. The Chairman pul tiie niolion. ami Ihe same was dei-lareil cai'ried. coxsirrrTiuNAi. convkniion isso uv.; IN CONVENTION President Clark in tlH' Chair, riie Convention was called to order. Thi> President: ^^■e will hear the report of the Chairman of the Comniiltee of the Whole on (ieneral File No. 2. .Mr. Collins, of Cast'ade: .Mr. President, your Committee of the Whole direct nie to report that it has had under consideration General File No. L'. and that the same is returned to the Cnnvention with Ihe rt'cinn- mendation that it do pass. The President: If there be no objection. Ilic report id' the Committee (d the Whole wdl be received. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, if the Chairman of the Committee on Boundaries is ready to consider that Article. 1 be- lieve il might be disposed of without debate. I therefore move that the Convention resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole for the consider- ation of Proposition No. 13. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved that the rules be suspended, and that the Convention resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole for the con- sideration of Proposition No. 13. The President put the motion, and the same was declared carried. The President called Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, to the Chair. IN eOMMIlTKE OF IHK WHOLE -Mr. J, K. I'oole, of Lewis & Clark, in the Chair, The (Committee was called to order. The Chairman: The matter pending before the Commiltee of the Whole is Proposition No, 13. Article I. on Boundaries, introduced by Com- mittee No. 20. on Boundaries, General File No. 11. The Clerk read Section I, as follows: "Section 1. The boundaries of the State of .Montana shall be as fol- lows, lo-wit: Beginning at a point formed by the intersection of the Iwcniy-seventh degree of longitude west from Washington with Ihe fortv- fifth degree of north latitude, thence due west on the forty-fifth degree iif latitude to a point formed by its intersection with the tbirlyfourth degree of longitude west from Washington, thence due south along the thirty-fourth degree of longitude, to a point formed by its intersection with the crest of the Rocky .Mountains, thence following the crest of the Hocky .Mountains northward to it.s intersection with the Bitter Root Mountains, thence northward along the crest of the Bitter Root Moun- tains, to its intersection with the thirty-ninth degree of longitude west from Washington: thence along the tiiirtyninth degree of longitude northward to the boundary line of Ihe British possessions: thence eastward along that boundary line to the twenty-seventh degree of longi- tude west from Washington: thence southward along the twenty-seventh degree of longitude to the place of beginning." The Chairman: If there be no amendments, Ihe Section will be considered adopted. .Mr. Hickman, of Madison: Mr. Cliaiiinan. 1 move that when the Committee arisi^ the Chair be insiructed to report Proposition No. 13 back, with the recommendation that il be adopted. Mr. .Mulh. of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman. I nioM- that wc^ fake up (ieneral File No. 3. Proposition No. .'). Mr. Collins, of Cascade: That is the .\rticle on Kducalion, and I hope thai that will not be taken up in the absence of the Chairman of Hie C.oinmitlee. Mr. .Mulh. of Lewis it Clarke: Mr, Chairman. I move thai wr' take uji Proposition No. 11, General File No, 6. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that I hat proposition is reported by the Commit lee on Labor, and I under- stand thai there was a minority report, or some of the members of the (Committee who diil not sign that report, 1 think w^^ ought to give time in which to prepare a minoritv- report, if necessary, and I think it would be well to pass that for tlie present and find out if there is any desire on the part of Ihe Committee to make a minority 'report. 170 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Witter, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Cliairniaii, the Committee on Labor ii' to have a meeting today, and I think tliey themselves want to malie some alterations in the report that has already been handed in. I think it would be well to postpone that for the present. .Mr. Collins, of CascaiJe: I nioM' tci anieml to plaei' that ijropnsilinn at the foot of the General i*'ile. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Colline, of Cascade: 1 move that we take up the consideration of (ieneral l'''ile .No. 7. The motion was seconded. Tin' Chair put the mution. and Ihc same was declared carried. The Chairman: Will the t^ciitli'nian from Cascade kindlv send to the Chair Kile No. 7. .Mr. Clark, of Silvi'r How: Mr. Chnirinan. T would like to inquire if File No. 7 has been printed. The Clerk announced that the prii|)iisilii)n was reported adversely and not printed. The Clerk then read as follows: "Resolution No. 13, Restricting Appi'upriations by Legislalive Assem- blies, introduced by Rickards, July llth, received, read and referred to Cnmmiltee No. 3, on Legislative Departments: July l,')th, reporled back ad\ersely, and placed on General ]''ile No. 7." Resolved, that the Li>gis- lalive .\ssembiy shall have no power to make an apiu'opriation for any purpose whatever for a longer period Ihan two years. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move the adoption of (he report of the Committee, and that the matter be stricken from the (uMicral l-'ile. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move that General File No. 8 be taken up. The motion was seconded. __ The Chair put the question, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: "Resolution No. 12, introduced by Allan R. Joy. relating to Suffrage. July lOtli, received, reaii and referred to Committee No. 2, on Rights of Suffrage. July Kith, reporled back with the recommendation that it do not pass, and placed on General File No. 8." Resolution on Suffrage. Every male citizen of the United States above the age of Twenty-one years, wlio can reait and write the English Ian giiage, and who has never been convicted of treason or felony, and who shall have resided in this State one year, and in the city, county or dis- trict wherein he may offer to vote for six months ne.xt prior to any election, and no other person, shall have the right to vote in this State, provided, that nothing herein shall disfranchise any person who was a qualified voter at the time of the adoption of this Constitution. Ml". Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. I move the adoption of the Resolution and the rejection of tin' report of tlie Committee. Thp motion was seconded. The Chair staled Ihc motion. Mr. Robinson, ot Mccr jjodge: All'. Cliaiiinan. I cull lor a iIixisinu oI Ihi' matter involved in the Resolution. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Tlieii 1 inakc the molion IIkiI I he ri'i)ort of the Committee be rejected. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman, if we adopt the Ri'soiulion. we reject the reporl, of the (Tommitlee. and tlieref(n'(' it is not necessary to make tioth motions. The Chairman: I take it that the proper thing to be consdered would be the iidoption of the Resolution. If that is adopted it would be in effect a rejectipt some- thing which is reported favorably by a committee: that is what the Committee of the Whole is organized for. and thai is I he object and pur- pose of the Committee of the Whole, tliat is, to fix up, amend and impi'ove propositions that have passed through committees, and (hal liaM^ lieen in- ti'odiiced by members and have come before il in the usual way. Cer- tainly it is not the iibject of the Committee of the Whole that it sliall act primarily upon a jiroposition of a member, and it should not be placed upon the File. The proposition of a member should be acted upon by a committee, and I he committee should report upon it; but in acting upon it, the Committee of the Whole sliould act upon that particular matter in connection with the report made by its own committee. If yon lake up any matter embraced in a I'lvsolntion. certainly you should take up the commillee's report in refei'ence to that particular- thing. Hnl il is not fair — it is not in accordance with parlamentary regulal ions- it is not fair to the comniiltee who have investigaleil this matter thai you should take up a subject mailer that has been reported by a com mitlee and no! give the lime and opporhinity to be beard in Cominillee of Hie \\ hole. It seems to me I luTt Hie nilentinn of Hie rule is that notliiiiu' sliould be taken up by the Commillei' iif the Whole (>xcepl mallei's acted upon liy a commiKce of this body and intended to be embodied in the Constitution. .Now I s(>e there is a iiroposition here— No. 1. The minorit\' reiiort IS Id be presenled, iir has been presenled; that will cmiie up in COXS'riTlTlO.NAL CONVENTION 1889 173 its ordor: it should conic up in Committee of ttie \\ hole lu connection witli tlie report of tlie Committee. Ttie Committee on Suffi-age liave re- poitefl. and they have also reported an adverse resolution. Now this resolution should iml he taken up unless you lake up tlie report of the Committee on t>uffrage: and my idea is that this Committee should in- struct the Convention that a resolution and a reiiort directly opposed to one aimther having been considered in Commitlee. should not be placed upon Ihe General File. II has been referred to the Committee on Towns and Counties: now the Committee on Towns and Counties have nut reported yet; they have not yet compleled their labors. II would not he fair to that Committee to take up that report, because we would not then have the advice and benefit of their labors in the matter before tliiMii. It is the same way with Resolution No. 0. That particular matter lias b(>eii reported adversely by the committee, but the committee may yet pul in something that may cover that case in their report to be here- 'alter introduced. So that it would not be right, nor would it be in ac- cordance with good business regulations, to bring that up m Committee 01 Ihe Whole. The Chairman: If the gentleman from Cascade will allow me for a moment, would it nol be a good way in which to get out of the difficulty to move that when Ihe Committee arise that if re|)ort the resolution back, with the recommendation to the (;onvention that the same be considered in connection wilh the report of the committee? Mr, Collins, of Cascade: .My idea is that it should be considered in connection with that, and that the adverse report shoulrl be placed in the report of the coinmittee, and th(>y should all be under a general head and under one number, I move that Ihe Committee of the Whole make that recommendation. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: It is moved and seconded that when (he Committee arise that it report back this resolution, with the recommendation that the same be considered in connection with the report of the Committee on Suffrage and Election. -Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: There is a question before the Committee; the question to reconsider is pending. The Chair then put the question on the motion to reconsider, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr, Chairman, I would also like to in- clude in .Mr. Collins' motion all these considered resolutions to be con- sidered in Committee of Ihe Whole in connection with the proposition tc which they belong, or rather in connection with the reports of the committee to which they belong. That would simplify matters and avoid any more rambling discussion of this kind, I move that as an amendment. The amendment was seconded, .Mr. Durfee, of iJeer Lodge: It seems to me this would do. with one exception. There is a report here in relation to school lands that was reported favorably by the Committee on Boundaries and Public Lands, and the Committee of Ihe Whole has already passed on that report of Ihe committee, and I do not see how it can be considered. This report of the Committee on Boundaries and Public Lands in relation to school lands cannot be considered in connection with thai having been already passed upon, .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: That would fake it out of the provisions of my motion. If it is considered, of course it would not be reconsidered. -My motion pertained to all matters coming up hereafter. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow, and the same w-as declared carried. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Jlr. Chairman. I move that the Committee do now arise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. 174 PROCEEDIiNGS AAD DEBATES IN CONVENTION I'lesideiU Clark in ttip Chair. The Convention was called to order. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, your Connnittec ot the Whole have had under consideration sundry propositions, and have directed me to report back certain recommendations, which I will file later in a written report. The President: If there he no ob.jection, the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole will be received. Mr. Joy, of Park: I would like to ask lea\(^ of absence until Mon- day, at 3 o'clock. The President: If there be no objection, the gentleman will be ex- cused unlil Monday, at 3 p. m. I have also a note from the gentleman from Beaverhead (Mr. Knippenberg), in which he states he was obliged to leave, and asks to be excused until, Tuesday, at noon. If there be no objection, the gentleman will be excused. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that the Convention do now ad- journ. The motion was seconded. The Chau- put the motion, and the same was declared carried, and the Convention stood adjourned until ten o'clock, a. m. on Saturday, Julv 20th. 1889. Adjourned. THIUTKENTH D.\Y. Saturday, July 20th, 1889. Convention called to order by the President at 10 a. m. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The gentleman from Ghoteau. Mr. Brown, desires to be excused until Monday afternoon. If there be no objection, leave of ab- sence will be granted him. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the Journal of the previous day. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. Chairman, I desire to present a pelition, with the accompanying letter, by request. The President: The petition offered by the gentleman from Park county, by request, will be read. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. President, I would suggest that, as the communication accompanying the petition seems to be very lengthy, that the postscript to the letter only need be read, as I did read that much of it myself, and presume that this communication, being more lengthy than the Convention would care to listen to, in anticipation of that 1 think he put in the postscript, which will furnish us some guidance for our action. The President: If there he no objection, the communication will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Canandaigua, New York, July II. 1889. "To the Governors and Conventions of the coming new Stales: We beg leave to commend to your favor the views of Professor E. Chadwick in regard to the chrislening of your noble Slates. Whilst brave pioneers are making these new States he watches, admires and sug- gests. We believe that the inspiring names he proposes will promote vour glory, and gladden the hearts of all patriots." Prof. " Chadwick was born in New Hampshire before that ardent patriot Henry Wilson and near to him. Knowing all our states and territories from the Atlantic lo the Pacific, his spirit is stirred within him when he sees so many of the old states named after kings and tyrants, and only one state proposed to he named for an illustrious American and champion for freedom: (Signed by about twenty names.) Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I move that further reading of the com- munication be dispensed with, and that it be laid on the table. ■J'he I'resident: The gentleman desired to have the postscript read. The Clerk read: CONSIITLTIO.N'AL CONVENTION lS«i> 175 "N. B. The I'rolessor prays it may please the Hon. Oovenior, the Convention and your piitilit- spirited editors to publish this letter tor the consideration of tlie people, as well as the Convention. Also the endorsement of Gov. Clark and the otlier eminent men who commend it."' Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I move that tlie com- n'unication be referred to Col. Searles, of the River Press. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: I move to amend, that it be referred to the Bitter Root Bugle. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis A; Clarke: Mr. President, I understand there is a valualile letter accompanyiufr that petition, wliich is full of informa- tion. 1 move that it be read. The motion was seconded. The Pi-i'sidenl: It is moved and seconded that the letter, supposed to contain valuable information, be read. The Chair put the question, and the same was declared carried. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: The letter I refer to is a private one. and it is probably not in the hands of the Clerk, Mr, Burleigh, of Custer: I am opposed to reading any private cor- respondence in this Convention. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, the private letter is not among those papers, Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. President. 1 have read a part of the correspondence: the letter precedes the postscript. Mr. Ooddard. of Yellowstone: I have read the entire letter, and it is a very interesting communication. The President: The Clerk will proceed to read the letter. Mr. Kennedy, of .Nlissoula: .Mr, President, there was a motion to reconsider the vote, Mr. President: Was the motion seconded"? Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: Yes sir. The President: The question now is upon tlie reconsideration of the vote by which tne communication was ordered read. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared lost. The Clerk read as follows: "To the (lovernor and the Constitutional Convention of Montana. "iionored Sirs: "The great hour almost strikes for launching vour magnificent State." "Please permit humble fellow-citizen to make a few suggestions." "1. According to national surveys and highest authorities. Montana is far less iiioiintainous and elevated, on the average, than many other States and Territories of the great West," "2, The mean elevation is onlv 39.50 feet, whilst even the Lakes in the wonderful National Park are 7788 feet, or about twice as high as Mon- tana." "3. More than half of Montana is on a comparatively low level. Ap- pletons great Encyclopedia says "nearly three-fifth lie thus low." "4. Not true to name, "or name not true to the facts, seems to be indelibly written upon the immense Territory of Montana!" "0. This name is misleading, as it leads even the most intelligent people, if they do not investigate, to "believe a lie!" — ^that is, to believe that ".Montana" is the name of the most mountainous region of North America!" "7, Whilst "Montana" would thus be, for all time, a most glaring misnomer, another name most fit, true, and patriotic, invites your atten- tion." '8. This month of July, forever Synonymous with Freedom and In- dependence, almost thunders forth the right name. "9. Great Washington, destined to stand, evermore, upon the grand northern frontier west of you, giving his name to a new state, re-echoes the thundering demand — "Place me not here alone! Station to the East of me my great Secretary of State! For him I waited 100 years ago. — On him I leaned. Jefferson, that writer of the immortal Declaration. — That piii'chaser ot your own immense territory, and of the many im- mense States stretching from the Gulf to the vast domain of Canaida." — "And Still louder \\'ashington thunders — "Make your great State an imperishable monument to Jefferson! Thus prove to all ages, and to all nations, that the grandest Republic of the world is not ungrateful!" 176 I'HOCKKHl.NOS AM) DKBATES "J-'r;uiklin niul tlii' Adiimscs, with lln' whole army ol' doparlcil patriots, would jnin with \\'asliiiif;l(in in appeals troin tln' heavens, saying — "Give not to that magiiiticent Slale the iiiisleadin!.' name of ".Montana.' Ciive it the immortal, historic name of JeflVrson." "11. Lincoln and all the martyrs for Liberty, ha\i' their blood Try- ing from the t-'round. demandint; the same thing-. .No! merely dial we name a splendid Slate for the ijalriot who pi-nned the Declaration, and who made the Lousiaiia purchase, but who also penned the ordinance of 1787 for great tree (erritories northwest >>\ the Oliio. The benign power ot that ordinance secured a Free .Northwest, and gave to our (ireat Repub- lic the immortal patriots Lincoln, (irant. Sherman, Sheridan, the Harri- sons— and universal Freedom!" The reading of the foregoing was I reiniciil ly interrupted willi ap- plause and laughter. Mr. Collins ot Cascadi': Mr. I'residenl. I move lliat Itie further read- ing of the communication lie dispensed with, and that the communication be referred to the Coinmittee on Boundaries. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I think it would be more appropriate to rr fer it to the Superintendent of the Insane Asylum. Mr. Collins' motion was seconded. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: 1 move to amend by striking out the words "refer it to the Committee on Boundaries." The motion was seconded. The t-'resident : 'I'he qu(>slioii now is upI.N<;S AND DEBATES L'. Soclioii 1. Aiiii'iid saiiic hy .strikiiifT oul.'in lino l', tlio word "troni." aiiil inserl ia lieu tluM'eof the word "thai". 3. Section (!. Am(>nd same by strikinj; out ttie word "should", in liiie L', and insert in lieu thereof the word "shall." i. Section 7. Amend by striking out, u\ line i, the words "as neai' a.s may be." Section 8. Amend by striking out the entire section and insert in lieu therefd' the loliovwing: "Sec. 8. Criminal ol'fenses of which justices' courts, and muiucipal and other courts inferior to the district courts have jurisdiction, shall be prosecuterl by complaint. Criminal offenses of which the district courts have jurisdiclion shall be prosecuted by information, after examination and commitment by a magistrate, or by leave of the court, or by indictment, without such examination or commitment or without such leave of court. A grand jury shall consist of seven persons, of whom five must concur to find an indictment. A grand jury shall only be drawn and summoned when the district judge shall in his discretion consider it necessary and shall so order." Section 11: Amend by striking out the words "or retroactive in its operation." Section 131. That after Section 12 the following be inserted as Sec- tion 13. and all the remaining sections be so numbered as to correspond. "Section 13. That the right of any person to keep or bear arms in de- fense of his own home, person an(t property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legallv summoned, shall not be called in question, but noth- ing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons." Amend Section 14 by sinking out the same and inserting the following in lieu thereof: "Section 11. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation having been first made to or paid into court for the owner." Amend Section 15 by striking out the same and inserting the following in lieu thereof: Section 15. The use of all water now aripropriated or that may hereafter be appropriated for sale, rental, distribution, or olher beneficial use, and the right of way over the lands of others for all ilitches, drains, flumes, canals and aqueducts necessarily used in connec-- tion wherewith, as well as the sites for reservoirs necessary for collecting and storing the same, shall be held to be a public use." Section 16. Amend by inserting after the word "in", and before the word "criminal," the wor lollowmg: "Section 23. The right of trial by jury shall be secured to all and re- main inviolate, but ni all civil cases ami in all criminal cases not amount- ing to felony, upon dcdault of appearance or by consent of the parlies expi'essed in such manner as the law may prescribe, a trial by jury may be waived, or a trial had by any less number of jurors than th(! number provided by law. A jury in justices' courts, both in civil cases and m cases of criminal misdemeanor, shall not consist of more than six persons. In all civil actions two-thirds in number of (he jury may render a verdict, and such verdict so rendered shall have (he same force and effect as if all of such jury concurred therein." Strike out Section 25 and insert instead the following: "Section 25. i'ersons of foreign birth (U' residence shall have the same right as native born citizens to acquire, purchase, possi>ss, enjoy, convey, transmit and inherit mines and mining properly and milling reduction, concentrating, and other works and real property necessary for or connected with I he business of mining and trealiug ores and minerals. Provided that noth- ing herein contained shall be construed In inlringi> the authority of the Initi'il States to i^roviile for the sale nr ilispnsil inn nf i|s mineral and olhei- puldic lands." CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ISX;) 17!» Spctiiiii ;il. Aild a ijcption. to be numbered Section 31, as follows: "Seplion Ml. No ai-med person or persons, or armed body of men, shall be broiifrht. info this State for the preservation of the peace or the sup- pression of domestic violence, except upon the application of the Legis- lative Assembly, or of the Governor when the Legislative Assembly can- not be convened." Respeclfullv submitted. Signed. CALLAWAY, Chairman. The President: \^'hat is the pleasure of the Convention concernmg this report? Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis \' Clarke: I move the adoption of (lie n'port. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Watson, of Fergus: Mr. President. I have noted on my copy of this Preamble and Bill of Rights one or two amendments which I do not see referred to in the report of the chairman of the Committee of the W liole. In the fourth line of Section 9 as prmted. the word "attamed" should be "attainted. ■ The other correction is, 1 think, where the suggestion was made by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toolei in reference to the change of venue in certain cases. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Mr. President, the amendment of Section 9 was simply a correction of the spelling. That is a matter that belongs to the Committee on Phraseology and Revision. The other amendment Ihat the gentleman suggested was not adopted. Mr. J. 1\. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, the amendment sug- gested by the gentleman from Fergus (Mr. Watson' was adopted by the Committee, which added these words: "subject to the right of a change of venue on the part of the State for the same causes for which the defendant might obtain the same." That was adopted by the Committee. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: Mv. President, would it not be well tc allow this report to be printed, with the amendments? It can then be reviewed by the members before its formal adoption by the Convention. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Section 23 was not stricken out. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: If there is no objection I would like to withdraw the report for a few moments. The President: The gentleman desires to withdraw the report for the present. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I would say to the gentleman from Mis- soula that this reference to tlie corrected numbers and not to the printed copy, it does not state that Section 23 was stricken out. The substitute offered for Section 23 was adopted and numbered 23. The President: Does the Chair understand that the gentleman desires to withdraw his report? Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Ves sir, for the present. The President: The gentleman from Madison, Chairman of the Com- mittee of the Whole, will withdraw the report for the purpose of cor- rection, and will present it again. The President: The gentleman from Cascade, Chairman of the Com- mittee on Finances of the State, etc., desires to make a report, and if there be no objection his report will be received. The Clerk read as follows: "To the Hon. President of the Constitu- tional Convention: \our Committee on Finances of the State, etc.. to whom was committed the resolutions mentioned herein, beg leave to report the same as follows: riesolution No. 11, by J. K. Toole, relating to taxation and exemptions therefrom, has been duly considered and acted upon favorably in the report of the Committee. Resolution No. lo, by Luce, relating to license taxes, was discussed before the Committee, who have instructed me to report adversely on the proposition. Reso- lution No. 20. by Luce, limiting the number of retail liquor dealers, was rejected by the Committee, who deemed the subject matter a more proper article for legislation. They recommend that the resolution be not adopted. Resolution No. 21. by Luce, prohitiiting .gambling, was re- jected as being entirely within tlie province of the legislative power. The Committee recommend that the resolution do not pass. Resolution 180 IM{(»r.EEI^Ii\GS AM) DEBATES No. 25, by Burlt'igh, retiuiring tlic Slali' to assume (■(ll]nl^ iiHlcbtedness was decided upon adversely. I'lie Cnimiiiltee see iii> iTa'smi In justify llieiii ill iucoi'i)(iraluit4 such a prnvisioii in the Conslilul imi. HespecttuUy suL»milted, (Signed) T. E. COLLINS, Chairman of Committee. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. I'resideiil, f sliall be under the neces- sity of moving thi.s body that the report of the Conunittee be rejected, and that the resolution be adopted by the Convention: and while 1 do not. care to bring the mailer up today, I give notice that I will bring it u|i, if in order. ;it I hi- next session of this Convention. 'J'he l-'resident: (lie (.'.tiair would ask to what resolution the gentle- man refers. .Mr. Burleigh, (d' Custer: I mean the resolution ret'ommending that Ihe Slate assume the indebtedness of the different counties on coming into the State. 11 was referred here to the Committee on i-'inances, or some other committee, on yesterday, and it sei'ms to Inn e been reporleij adversely. I'he President: The Chair would {ilate tha! Ilii.s resolution .will take its place on the file, and come up in its regular order. Resolution No. 11 will be reierred to the Committee on l^rinting, and ordered to be printed. .Mr. Ramsdell, of .Missoula: i woulil like to ask the gentleman wliat tlie indebtedness of Custer county is. Mr. Burleigh: if the gentleman will take the trouble to look at the report he will find it there in dollars and cents. .My impression is that thi' aggregate is a little over two hundred thousands dollars, and de- ducting the public improvements, it would bring it down to something like one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. 'I"he President: Tlie Chair desires to state that this (|Ui'slion is not in order at present. .Ml'. Burleigh, ntion adjourn, il adjourn to meet at 10 o'clock on .Monday. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I move to amend by inakint.' it 2 o'clock. The motion was seconded. Mr. McAdow, of Fei-gus: I move to amend, that we laki> a recess null! 2 o'clock this afternoon. I'he President: The question to fix the time takes precedence of (be (luestion to adjourn, hence the motion of tlie gentleman is not in order. Mr. Eaton, ot Park: How many amendments to tlie motion have been made, and is an amendment now in order'.' The President: There is only one amendment so far — to cliaiit;i' the Imur from 10 o'Icock until 2. Mr. Ealon, of Park: 'I'hen 1 iiionc Io sulistitute by makinu tin' hour •I o'clock on .Mondax'. The amendiiient was seconded. -Mr. Cooper, of (iaUaiin: 1 hope llial motion will not pri'\ail. Sev- I'lal of us wish to ^o East to our homes, and it will be impossible Io he here by 9 o'clock. 1 hope the gentleman will withdraw Ins iiiolioii. II seems to me that 2 o'clock would be the more appropriate lidur. .Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. President, there are several of us who waul to go East very badl\' but we cannot j;el there, and 1, for one. want to proceed witli ihe business of this Coinenlion and get through with it. 1 1 Ihe gentleman can go home and gel back in two days, he is favored, ImiI, Ihere are those who are not so iiappily situated, of Avhoni 1 am one. ami we want to get throiit;li willi Ihe business. -Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: 1 aKi'ee wilh Ihe remarks of llie sentle- iiiaii troni Park. .My place ot business being situated as it is I am unable te )^o away and f^i't lia(d< again m less than five days, anil I am in lii\or of liaxing the wnrk ol the Convention expediteil as much as iiossihle. The (^liair piil Ihe (|iiestion on the amendment of Ihe gentleniaii Iroiii I'aik, and tlie same was deel;irei| lost. CONSTITUTIONAI. CONVENIION 1889 181 i'lio President: Tlie question now rnurs upon the anieudnienl to lix tile hour at 2 o cloclv on Monday. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Ularlve: 1 m()\e to amend tlie motion now before the house by expuufring the woid "l'" and inserting thereui the word "lO." The President: The gentleman's motinii is nui of order. The n'gular time, as fixed by the rules, is 10 o'elork. .Mr. .Magninis, of Lewis L*t Clarke: Mr. Chairinan. I suggest that wi; can olilige a great many gentlemen who wish to go home to spend Sun- day, and if we choose we can hold a night session on Monday night. 1 suggest that by unanimous consenl we do that — that is, make up the time in the evening. It is a matter oi indifference to nie personally. .Mr. .McAdow: I move that we give the gentlemen permission to go home; I do not see why we should stop the business of the Convention. Tlie Chair put the question on the amendment to make the hour :i o'clock on .Monday, an^. a division being calleil for. the motion was declared carriea. Mr. Callaway, of Madison, sent up the report of the Committee of the W hole, properly amended. The President: The Clerk win read that portion that is corrected by the Chairman of the Committee. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 1(5. Amend by inserting after the word "in," before the word "criminal", the word "all". Also amend by adding to Section IG the following: "subject to the right of the Slate to have a change of venue for any of the causes for which the defendant may obtain the same." The President: What is the pleasure of the Convention concerning the report of the Committee ot the Whole which considered General l-'ile .No. 1. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 move its adoption. The motion was seconded. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, do 1 understand that this IS the final passage? The President: >o sir, it has to go upon its final passage and be adopted section by section, by ayes and noes. .Mr. Dixon, oT cnver Bow: 1 would like to inquire whether the report is now open for amendment. The" President: .Not until it comes before the Convention on its final passage. This is simply the report of the Committee. The Chair put the question upon the adoption of the report of the Committee, and the same was declared carried. The President: \\ aat is the pleasure of the Convention as to ha\ing this report printed, with the amendmenls".' .Mr. Collins, of Cascade, moved thai the report of the Committee of the Whole be printed. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Hickman, of .Madison: Should nol this all go to the Engrossing Clerk? .Mr. .Maginnis, of i^ew-is & Clarke: So. it goes to the head of I lie house: it has not been passed yet. The President: The question before the Convention is upon the motion of the gentleman to have fhe report printed as amended. Mr. Collins: 1 wish to add to that motion, with the consent of the ('.(mvention. that it be referred to the Committee on Engrossing and Enrolling, and then put in the hands of the Committee for printing. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. President, il rather seems to me. for the purpose oi expediting business, that the better way would be to bring this up oefore the Convention and get through with whatever amendments we have before it is engrossed or printed. I think the better way would be for the Convention to pass upon whatever amendments we desire to make before engrossing. Mr. .Middleton. of Custer: Mr. President, as I understand the motion, it is now to refer to the Enrolling and Engrossing Committee with in- structions to engross and print. .Vow that Committee and the printing Committee are two separate and distinct committees. It seems to me that it should go to the engrossing Committee and then be referred back here, properlv engrossed, and then sent to the printing Committee: but it 182 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES does not seem lo me desirable to iirint ttiese matters anyway, and at any rate not until they are acted upon in Convention. Ttie President: Does the gentleman oiler that as a motion to amend? Mr. Middk'ton, ot Custer: I simply suggest that il should go to tlie Enrolling.' Coninuttce, without any instructuiiis as to the matter of printiiit;. Mr. Culms, ot Cascade: That was my intention — lo ri'tVr lo the En- grossing Committee and then have it referred hack. Mr. Iveniiedy, of Missoula: it seems to me that the proper place tor all that to go is to the Engrossing Clerk. 1 do not think tlu' I'riiiting C(.)iii- mittee have anything to do with it. It seems to ine that the committee that has been selected tor that purpose should do the engrossing. The President: The question is upon the motion oi the gentleman Iroiii Cascade, that the report oi the Committee of the Whole, having under consideration General File No. 1, be referred to the Engrossing Committee to be engrossed. Mr. ijUce, oi (lallalin: Mr. Presidi'nt, i am not a very good parlia- mentarian, nor uo I understand these tactics very well, but 1 would like to know the benefit of sending this report to the Engrossing Cominitlee, As I understand it, that Committee was for the engrossing of bills after they have been passed, t cannot see why the Printing Commit lee cannot correct this and put, in all these amendments, and have it printed. Mr. Bickford, of .Missoula: .Mr. President, let us save three or four days' time now by referring this to the Printing Committee, and have it come back here uy Monday morning, and then it can go to the Enrolling Committee, and afterwards come up for final passage. .Mr. Maginnis, of J^ewis & Clarke: I move to amend, that the report go to the Printing Committee, lo have it printed, with the amendmenls. and then that it take its place at the head of the house calendar. The motion was seconded. The Chair staled the motion. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I am iiol scry familiar with the proceedings in these matters my'self, but it occurs to me that we are establishing rather a bad precedent, and one that is rather e.x- pensive and dilatory as well. iNow this report may be amended when it comes up for final passage. It has been printed once aiul reported. Why not bring it up in its regular order, and when it is agreed to in Convention, then let us have it printed; but if we are going to print every article two or three limes over, why it will incur an unnecessary ex- pense, and it strikes me there will be a good deal of delay. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. President, 1 move to amend by putting this proposition on its final passage at this time. Mr. Maginnis, of jLewis & Clarke: Then I withdraw my motion. The President: The motion made by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, to refer to the Engrossing Committee, is withdrawn. The ques- tion now before tne Convention is upon the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toolej, that this Preamble and Hill of Rights be put upon its final passage. Mr. Dixon, ot Silver Bow: i desire to offer an aniondmenl, that it b(- read by sections. The President: 1 would say to the gentleman that lln' rules proxide for that. The Chair put the question on the mutuiii of the geiitlemaii from Lewis (V Clarke (Mr. Toole-, and the same was declared carried. I'lu^ President: File No. Iw'ill now be read by section. It will be read first as reported by the Committee, and then the amendments to each section. Mr. Burleigli, ot Cluster: I think it should he read as laken from the hands of the Committee of the Whole and as amended, and without any regard to the printed form. The l^resident: If that is the sense ot the Coiim'iiIkhi, llie Clerk will proceed to read the sections as ami'mled. The Clerk read the Preamble. The President: The Chair would state that this will be read now as amended, by sections, and it is subject lo ameiidm(Mit again; but it there bo no amendments to be offered, we will pass ovei' the Article section by section, cons(>cutively, until (he whole is read, and tlien a vote may be laken upon the whole file as aiiiendeil. CONSTITUTIONAL G0NVEN1H)N 1889 laS Mr. Aiken, ol' Silvci' Bow: .My iiiultM'standing was that wtien this was passed there was an amendment nt the first Ime. as Idllnws: "We. the people ol the Territory of .Montana," instead of "We, the people of Montana." .Mr. .Maj-'HUiis. of Lewis & Clarke: Tlial was not adopted. Mr. Setunidt, of Silver Bow: I move to strike out the sixth, seventh, eighth, nnith, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, thirteentli and fourteenth wonts. Tlie President: The gentleman from Sil\er Bow offers the follownig amendment to the Preamble: strike out from the si.xth to the fourteenth worils, on the first line. The words proposed to he stricken out are as follows, "to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty." The Preamble as amended would read. "W e. the people of .Montana, in order to si'cure tlie advantages cd' a state government," ete. The motion was seconded. The ayes and noes were railed lor. The Clerk called the roll down to Mr. Robinson's name. .Mr. Robin- son, though present, took no notice of the call, whereupon the Clerk repeated his name several times. The l^resident asked if the gentleman desired to be excused from voting. Mr. Robinson did not respond. Tlie Clerk proceeded with the call of the roll, many of the members being absent. .Mr. .\iken, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I move the call Of Ihe house. The motion was seconded. The (;hair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. The Sergeant at Arms endeavored to secure the attendance of the members, but without success. .Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I mov(> that further proceedings under the call be dispensed with; all the gentlemen absent have gone home. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared lost. The President: The Clerk will continue the call of the roll. Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: Mr. President. 1 arise to a point of order, to inquire whether any further proceedings can be had in this Convention until the call of the liouse. The President: There is no motion in order i>xcept a motion to adjourn. -Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move tliat tlie Convent Km dn now adjourn. The motion was seconded. .Mr. kohrs, of Deer Lodge: Before the adjournment of the house, 1 would like leave of absence until Wednesday. -Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: I desire t" be excused until 3 o'clock on .Monday. Ihe President: If tlnTe be im oliji'cl mn. the ^jentleinen will be excused. The Chair put the question on the mntidn to adjourn, and Ihe same was declared carried, and the Coiixeiilion ad.iouineil until .Moiidav. ,)ulv ■S2iu\. 1889. .\d journed. FOIRTEKXTII DAV. Monday, .Inly 22iul, ISS9. rtie Convention was called to oi'der by the I'l-e.sideni at 2 1'. .M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: .Messrs. Ciraves, Knippent)ei ;j and (iaylord desire to be excused until tomorrow Tuesday . and .Mr. Hammond. Of Jefferson, to be excused until I'hursday. If there be no objection these gentlemen will be excused. .Mr. J. iv. Toole, cd Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Durfee desired leave of absence for today. The President: If there be no objection, Mr. Durfee will be granted leave of absence. Mr. Rotwitl, of Meagher, asked leave of absence for Mr. Kanouse. The l^resident: If there be no objection .Mr. Kanouse will be excused. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read tlie .lovirnal of the thirteentli day. 184 l'H()(:KEl)IN(iS AND DEBATES The Pri'siili'iit : II' Ihcrc be iin cdrrcc-l imis. the .Imniial nl Ihr lliir- ((.■entli day will be approved. Mr. Conrad, ol' Clioteau: .\li'. I're.suleiil, 1 de.sii-e to make a reijort. 'J'lie President: The report ol' the Coinmitlee on Printing will be read. The Clerk read as I'ollows: "Mr. President: Vour Cominittee on Printing, ete., to whom was referred Propositions Nos. 18, 19, 21 and 22. with instructions to print, beg leave to report Ihat lliey tiave coiniiari-d tl:e printed copies with the original and I'md (hem correctly priiileU. with the exception' ot Proposilimi .No. ,'1. whicli has bccii currecled tav pen. iSiyned, CONRAD, Chairman. The President read the order ol' business. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, 1 movi' thai I he I'n/ambli' of File yo. 1 be made the special onliT lor ncxl i'lnirsday morninj^, as a number of gentlemen are absent. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the sami' was declai'ed lost. The President: l''ile No. 1, as repoiied back from the Committee of the Whole, with the amendments adopted, lias been engrossed. The Clerk will read the same. The Clerk read the Preamble. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: T iiio\i' Ihe ado[iliiin uf ihe Preamble. The motion was seconded. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: ;\lr. President, I understand the amend- ment of Mr, Dixon has not yet bi'eii disposed of. 1 believe the vote was not announced. The Clerk will read Ihe substitute offered by the gentle- man from Silver Bow. The Clerk read as follows: "Strike out all id' Preamble and insert instead "\Ve, the people of Montana, do ordain and eslalilish this Con- stitution." _ .Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mi-. President, 1 would like to ask what the minutes of the (.:oii\ I'lil ion stiow in regard to Ihe aclion lakeii on Ibis Amendment. The President: The iiimutes show thai the question was put to the Convenlion, uut the result lias never been announced. The Coiiven- iion adjourned before the proceedings were comiileted. Mr. Middlelon, of Custer: i understand that the Convention is now under the head of unfinished business. It seems to me, that in view of the fact thai a great many of the members are absent, some of them per- haps unavoidably, and several who have been excused, that perhaps it is not best tor the Convention to take up and determine this matter now. There is plenty of work tliat can be clone in the Committee of the Whole, and 1 move, as an amendment, if it be in order, that Ihe order id' business — unfinished business — be now dispensed with, and that Ihe Convention now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole \'ov the consideration of other business. I believe that it is nothing more than just Ihat a great many who arc absent should be allowed to vote on the I'reamhie. In view" of the fact that we have some other business ill the Committei^ of the Whole, it is really iint necessai-y thai we should take final action at this time. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: It seems to me, that inasmuch as tlie \i)te has been reached upon the substilute of .ludge Dixon, that it should be announced. The Presideiil: There has been no secoml to ihe iiinliou I helie\e. 'I'liis malter has now come before the Convention anew. I would slate tc the gentleman t'vom Custer (Mr. Middlelon i Ihal his motion is not in order unless by unanimous conseni the (lonvenlion desires to enlerlaui it. The Clerk read the amendmenl ol the gentleman from Sil\ei- Hdw, Mr. Dixon. Mr. Hickards. of Silxer How: Inasmuch as I was absent on fridas' aflernoon and during Salui'day, I would like In ask lor intormalion. is Ibis Proposilion .No. 1 up tor final passage'.' The Presideiil: Yes, sir. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: Would il not he in order lo |ioslpone. and allow Ibis malter to be made Ihe ordei' tor a certain hour'.' CONSTiri'l'loNAI. CONVENTION IHSD 18r> Tlie President: The Chair would state to the jieiilleiiuui Ihal a motion III ttiat efl'ei't has already Ijeen entertained and lost. Mr. Rickards, of Silver How: II does seem to me, if [ am in order, noticing the large number that are absent, that it would be manifestly unjust for us to proceed to a final disposition of this bill now before us; and it seems to me there ought to be a way out by which we can ac- conuuodate a large nunibcu' of the abs one who voted in the affirmative, if tliey desire an opportunity, to recon.sider. The ayes and noes were called upon the adoption of Judge Dixons substitute, and I would like to ha\e the result announced, so as to dispose of it. So far as expecting the members to be here at all times for the expeditious working of the business of the" Convention, I have abandoned all idea of it. We have made up our minds to go on— those who want to remain here -and complete the business of this Convention. Tlic President: The Chair would state that the Com eiition adjourned witJKUil the voli' beuig announced, and the roll would lia\r lo be called again. .\lr. Wilier of Beaverhead: Was not this Ciin\eiitinii working umlcr a call of the house when we adjourned? Mr. .Maginms. of Lewis & Clarke: The adjournnieiil ijoes awav with Ihe call. The President: 1 would state to the gentleman from Beaverhead tlial tlie question entertained and passed upon by the ConviMition was to make this a special order. I would say to the gentleman furtlier. that a motion to postpone to a day certain would be in order. -Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: In view of the large number that are absent, as 1 said awtiile ago, who. 1 know, want a voice in the settlement of Ibis matter — and I think their preference should be considered — I move llie postponement of this bill now before us — General I'MIe .No. 1. 1 think It is call(>d — until the hour of ten o'clock tomorrow. The motion was seconded. .\lr. Carijenter, of Lewis i"i: Clarke: I move to amend lliat in (his way. Ilial we post|)one to ten o'clock tomorrow, m tlie meantime the Printing Committee be instructed lo ha\e this Bill printed and on the tables of the members. I'here. ai'c \im'\ important matters in this Bill of Rights, Ihe most important thai will come before the Convention; the matter in relation to grand juries and the imprisonment of witnesses, and sev- eral other things I ha\ e not time lo eiuimerale; and I think it is very unwise for the Convention to act upon it without each member having the language of the Bill before him. The engrossment amounts to noth- ing, 'file members cannot examine critically the language of the en grossed bill. I'lierefore I would move, as an amenilment that it not only be postponed until tomorrow, but that in the meantime it lie printed, under thi> tlirection of llie Printing Committee, and laid on tlie tables of the members. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I will accept that amendment. .Mr. Callaway, of Madison: 1 move to amend that it be refeircil to the (lommittee on Engrossment for report, before printing. :\lr. Carpenter, of Lewis iV; Clarke: It has been engrossed already. Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: Bui there has been no report made. .Mr. Carpenter, id' Lewis iS: Clarke: I will accejit my amendment that will pul tills matter upon the desks of the members of the Convention: il will be a mere expense of ten dollars perhaps: but I will not accept anything that will delay it. I want this biU printed at the first momenl. 'I'he President: Does the Chair understand that Ihe gentleman from IjCwis iS; Clarke accepts the aniendmient offered liy Ihe gentleman from .Madison'/ Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I will acccjil it, yes sir. The President: The question is upon the molion of the gentleiiian from Lewis & Clarke, which has been amended, and the amendment ac- cepied. that it be referred lo the Engrossing (Committee to be reported upon. d86 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Till' Ctiair put tin' (lui'slidii mi ItiP motinn. anil ttn' saiiii' was ilcclai-i'i.l earned. The President: Did tlie Chair understand tlie motion of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke to include the print ing of the rei)ort? Mr. Carpenter: Ves sir, — thai if be ijiinli-d liy the I'i'inting Com- mittee as early as possible. The President: It is moved and secnnded, that upon the return of this Bill .No. 1 from Ihe Engrossing Coninnttee. it he ordered to be printed. Mr. Middletoii, of Custer: The motion is out of order. It certainly is now in the hands of the Engi'ossing Committee, and is beyond the power of the Convention until that Committee reports. The President: The point of order is well taken. Mr. J. i\. J'oohs of Lewis & Clarke: I ask leave to make a report as Chairman of the Committee of the Whole on General Eile .\o. 11. Tlie President: The report of the Chairman of the Committee of Ihe Whole on General File -No. 11 will now be read. The Clerk read as follows: "Mr. President: Vour Committee of the Whole, to whom was referred the General File for consideration, beg leave to report as follows. The Committee has had under consideration General File No. 11, Proimsition No. 13, on Boundaries, and return the same with the recommendation that it do pass. The Committee has also considered general File No. 7, Resolution No. 13 restricting apiuopriations by Legislative Assembly, and return the same with the recommendation that it do not pass. The Committee further recommends that General J<'ile No. 8, Resolution No. 12, on Suffrage, and all minor resolutions of like nature, he hereafter considered in Committee of the Whole in con- nection-with the main report of the Committee to which such resolutions properly appertain. (Signed' JOSEPH K. TOOLE. Chairman of the Committee of the Whole. Mr-. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 lUiive the adoption of the report. The motion was seconded. The Chau' put the question on Ihe motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, and the same was declared carried. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I now move that the proposition embodied in that report and reported favorably be now placed upon its final passage. I'he motion was seconded. I'he Chair put the question, ami Ihe saiiu' was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: "Article 1. Boundaries. Section 1. The boundaries of the State of .Montana shall be as follows, to-wit: Begiimiiig at a point formed by the intersection of Ihe twenly-sex'enth degree ol longitude wesi from W ashingtoii with the forty-fifth degree of north lali- tude, thence due west on the forty-fifth degree of latitude to a point formed by its intersection with the thirty-fourth degree of longitude west from Washington, thence due south along Ihe Ihirty-lourth degree ot longitude to a point formed by its intersection with Ihe crest of the Rocky Mountains, thence following the crest of the Rocky mountains northward to its intersection with the Hitter Hoot .Mountains: thence northward along the crest of the Bitter Root mountains, to its inter- section with the thirty-ninth degree of longiluile west from Washington: Ihence along Ihe Ihirty-iimth degree nf longitude northward to Ihe boun- dary line of the British possessions; thence eastwarti along that boundary line to the twenty-seventh degree of longitude west from Washington: thence southward along the twenty-seventh degree of longilude lo the place of beginning." I lie Prrsiilnil : As many as are in favor of the .Vrlicle as read being ■ adopleii and fiecoming a part of the Constllution, will sa\- aye as (heir names are called. The Clerk cidlcd the roll. Tl'i' Mile was as follows: Ayes — .\ikeii, Bickrord, B-a/leioii. Iheen, Buford, Bullard, Burleigh, Burns, A. J.; Burns, A. F.: Burns, Edward; Calla- way, ('ardwiiM. Carpenter, Cauby Chessman, Conrad. Courtney. Cr.nen, Di.xon, Dyer, Eaton, Fields. Gille'tte. Halch, Hershfield, Hicknian, Hobson, Hogan, Joyce, Kennedy. Knowles, Loud, lAice, Maginnis, Marion. Marshall, Wayger, Middblon. Mitchell, Mutli, Parberry. Ramsdell. Reek. Hohin.-on, Ilolwill, Riclvards, Sargent, Schmidt. Staplelon, ,1. K. Too!.'. .1 R. Toole. CONSTITLTIOXAl. CONVENTION 1889 187 W aiTpn, Watsdii, WhUelull, WiiisIdii, Witter, Mr. Presidi'iil: total. 57. .Nay8. iKuii'. .Vbseiit: Hrowne. Collins. Cooper, Durfee, Gayloril. (iibsou, (ioddani, Cirave.s, ftainmond. Hartman. Haskell. Joy, Ivanouse, Knippen- berg, Kohrs, AleAdow, Myers, Webster; 18. Mr. Magiiniis, of f.ewis & Clarke: Mr. President: I move tliat the Artiele on Boundaries take its placi^ in the Constitution after the Bill of Rights, or befme the Bill of Rights and after the Preamble. The President: Do I und'Mstand the gentleman's motion is that the Artie!" on Boumlaries shall be inserted innnediately after the Preamble? Mr. .Maginnis: Yes sir. ■J'he motion was seeonded. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I do not know whether or not It would lie proper to have these things referred to the Committee on Revision and Phraseology? Mr. Maginnis: I would move, then, to refer to the Committee on Re- vision and Phraseologv". .\lr. Eaton, of Park: i)o 1 understand there is a motion before the house? The President: There is a motion to refer to the Committee on Re- vision and Phraseologj', (To Mr. Maginnis of Lewis it Clarke Does the gentleman mean to withdraw his motion in regard to plaeing this Article? Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Yes sir. The President: The question is then upon the reference of the Article to the Connnittee on Revision and Phraseology. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis &• Clarke, and tlie same was declared carried. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I move that General File No. 2. Article on Military Affairs, which has been reported upon favorably, be now placed upon its final passage. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion, and the same was declaresl carried. The Clerk read as follows: "Proposition No. 9. General File No. 2. Report of Committee on Military Affairs. Section I. The militia of the Stale of Montana shall consist of all able bodied male citizens of the State between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years inclusive, except such persons as mav be exempted bv the laws of the State or of the United States." Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge: I wish to offer an amendment to that section. The President The gentleman from Deer Lodge offers to amend Sec- tion 1 of General I'lle So. 2. by inserting the following after the word "citi- zens," in the first line, "and those who have declared their intention to become citizens." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Section 2, as follows: "Sec. 2. The Legislative Assem- hl\' shall provide by law for the organization, equipment and discipline of the .:iilitia, and shall make rules and regulations for the government of the same. The organization shall conform as nearly as practicable to the regulations for the government of the armies of the United States." '1 here being no amendments to Section 2, the Clerk read Section 3 as follows: "Sec. 3. The Legislative .Assembly shall provide by law fof maintaining the niililia by appropriations from the treasury of the State."' There being no amendments to Section 3. the Clerk read Section 4 as follows: "Sec. i. The Legislative .Assembly shall provide by law for the safe keeping of the public arms, militarv records, relics and banners of the State." There being no ami'iulmi'iils to Section 1. the Clerk read Section 5, as follows: "Sec, 5. ^^'hen the Governor shall, with the consent of the Legislative Assemlily, be out of the state in time of war at the head of any military force thereof, he sliall continue commander-in-chief of all the military forces of the State." ■ Mr. Stapleton, of Silver Bow: I desire to make an inquiry as to this last section. It proviilcs that when the Governor is absent from the State he shall still be at the head of the military forces thereof. Is there any provision providing that he shall be at tlie head of the military power of the State? Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis it Clarke: It is in the executive department of the constitution. ISS IMIoC.KKDI.MiS AND DEBATES 'I'lic Pi'Psiil(Mi( : Filp No. 2, on Military Affairs, will iinw ho pul upon i(.s final passapo. Tlio ayps and nop.s will be enlerod iijxmi thf .Journal. Ml'. Hobin.scui. of Dcit Lodpr: I desii'P to offer an aineudini'nl. In he added as Section 6. The President: The jienllenian from Deei' Lodge offers the followini; amendment: "See. (i. Thai the militia of Ihe Slate sliall not be ealled out exeeiit in ease of eminent public danfrer, or upon urKenl necessity, in aid of (he civil authorities in llie enforcement (d' proces.s issued from some court of compelent jurisdiclion." The moliou was seconded. Mi-. Knowles. of Silver How: Mr. Chairman, T lhird< that that provision would be what I might, term unconstilulional. The militia may be calleii out by order of the President of the United States. I would like to lia\e the gentleman from Deer liOdge explain what he means by the woi'ds "except by virlue of some judicial authority or in aid of llie civil aulliori- lies." Mr. Eaton, of t^ark: Before (he gentleman explains. 1 woidd like lo mentmn one other matter. As I understand Ihe seclion as read, il would also prohibit the Governoi- from calling ou( (he militia for an annual encampment, or for drill inn-poses, for a week, or (bat ma((er. Will Ihe gentleman also explain thai- as he answers .Judge Knowles' query? Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clarke: And I should also like (o have (lie genlleman explain who i.s (o decide what "eminent danger" i.s. -Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: It seems to me that there is one oilier exp[-ession tin^re, and that i.s the expression "upon urgent nece.ssitv." Who IS (0 be the judge of (haC' It seems (o me tha( If you should pul a provision like that in there, some one ought to be the judge of wUal is "eminent danger" or "urgent necessity." I^ am not a lawyer, nor (he son of a lawyer, but it seems to me (hat it would be a lame way of putting it. I would like to hear from (he genlleman as to who, in his judgment, would sit in judgmeni upon (he "emineni necessiiy" of calling out (he mililia. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Presttlent, in answer (o (he ciueries of the gentlemen I would suggest (o (he Conven(ion that it is a pi-oposition which is rather unusual in stale consti(u(ions. It is a declaraiion in the Constitution of the will and intent of (he people of the State as to when the stall- mUilia shall be called ou(. t'wM. m answer to the query (d' (he gendeman from SilviM- Bow, I woidd advise him (hat my understanding of the law is simply (his, dial whenever it is necessary upon (he call of the sheriff of a county. It i.s the usual course lo be taken, and a proper provision should he made for thai by (he Legisla(ure of (he Slale. And il is the usual (-ourse. (bat wherexer (he milida of (he S(a(e is (o be called into recjuisition to aid the civil aiilhorilies in the enforceiHeiU nf process issued from (he courls. i( is done by an appeal lo (he Governor of (he Slate, or on representadon that (here is resislen(-e (o (he execu(ion of civil process. Upon that call, upon that representalion being made, (he Govern- or, as (he ctiief execudve officer (d' (he S(ate, is empowered Ihen (o cafl out a sufficieni. number of the militia lo aid the sheriff as a posse to enforce (he process of the conr(s of the State. Tha( I have always under- s(ood was (tie proces.s whereby Ihe mililia of Ihe S(a(e was reached, and (he proper- one (o tie reached (o aid Ihe idficers in (be enforcemeii( of (hi- firocesses of (he coui-ts id' the Slate. That is wlial Ihal pari of it is inlenfled for. Ttieii Ihe odier part of the seclion is intended as an expres- sion of opinion on (he iiart of (he S(ale. Ihat the mililia should not br' called out except in cases of this urgent nec-e.ssity. The obji'cl of Ihat is lo guard against (he calling out of lli(> mililia of Ihe Slale on ever\- silly and foolish pi-ele\( dial might be dexised and goden up b\ parties v.lio ar-e exlremeh- anxious (o make a display, oi- where parlies in diiferenl reiiude parls of (he S(a(e may ui-ge (he necessiiy of Ihe milida (o suppress Indian di'iH-edalions. which, as we have seen limi' and again, lune lurned out to be uderly and entirely false. If a syslem of (ha( kind were (oleraleil il woulil be a \eiy eas\ Ihiiig lo gel up a scare, and widioul sufficieni i-ause or reason lo (-all oul Ihe militia of (he State and invol\'e Ihe Slale in hundreds of Ihousand.-; (d' dollars of debt in (bus calling oul Ihe mililia an i( in the haiuls of tln' iiovcriioi' to ilotonnini; or in tlio hantls of any tribunal to say in what casi's llifre would bp suffi- ciont pxigcnin for calling out the militia. It would be impossible to estab- lish any mathematieal rule by which the necessity of it would be deter- mined. But this is only an expression in the Constitution that the militia shall he called out only in Ihesp special casi^s. I am not sure. Sir. but there should ha\c been placed there the disjimctive "or" — "or in the en- forcement of pi'ocess." etc. The amendment was hastily drawn, but I ilesire to get it before the Convention, and think it is a material proiiosi- tion for the Convention to give some expression to. II reads, "that the militia of the State shall not be called out except in case of eminent public clanger or upon urgent necessity, or in aid of the civil authorities in the enforcement of process issued from some court of competent jurisdiction." There was one pi'oposition suggested by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke County, that it would not be proper to prevent the militia from parading if they desire. The ob.jection to this is that they should not be called into active service. So far as the militia of the State being called out to parade, and to march aroiuid and have a good time among them- selves, or have a display, no one can object to it while it does not i-ost the State anything. It is only these propositions that are likely to cost the slate some money that it is intended to reach. I presume I will he allowed to correid my motion? The President: If there be no objection thi^ genlleman from Deer Lodge will be allowed to correct his motion. Mr. Robinson: I have just made a .correction in if in conformity with the suggestion I made. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I will say. in defense of the Military Committee, that we found no such provision in the constitution of any of the states. We make the Governor Commander-in-chief of the militia. and we must give him some discretion. Wisdom will not die with this body, nor will ci\ilization fail when we are gone. If we propose to make a government for the people of Montana, and if Ihey are fit for self-gcn- ernment. they will, in all probability, he able to maintain and perpetuate it: and I undertake to say that the verdict of the voters of the State \}vrin any Governor who would wantonly and maliciously call out the militia and put the people of the State to expense, and subject hini'^elf to the ridicule of the press and the good sense of the ]iei'|)|e to whom we pr .|Hisr> to submit the maintenance of the (lOvernment, would lie quite a sufficient safeguard against it: ami I hope the resolution will be voted dow!i. Mr, Whitehill. of Deer Lodge: I think, if this amendment is adnpleil. it will be necessary to adopt another amendment providing the cases in which the (io\ei-nor shall call out the troojis. It is purely a matter for Ihe Li^gislalure to act upon. I think if the gentleman of the Convention desires to adopt Ibis amendment (hat it will cei'tainly follow that we miwt adopt another amendment pioviding when and for what purpose the <;o\- ernor shall call out the militia. I think the, report of the committee should be adopted just as it is. without the adoption of any other section. Mr. Middlelon, of Custer: It appears to me. from the reading of Sec- tion 2 of the fde as it now stands, it shows the mtention to leave the mat- ter entirelv with (he Legislature, where it belongs. Reading "Section 2. l"he Legislature shall provide by law for the organization, equipment and discipline of the militia, and shall make rules and regulations for tbc> government of the same." Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis it Clarke: The whole of the military and nava! power of the United Stales is based upon those w-ords. Mr. Middlelon. of Custer: In the Constitution all that is necessary tor us to do. all that is necessai-y to t)e done, and all that should be done. is to declare what kind of persons shall be subject (o military duty, which is done here in Section 1. and who shall be conmiandei'-in-chief of the militia. That is done here in the last section. Now. then, to add the proposed amendment, (o leave (he mat- ter in .such a shape (hat some one-horse justice of (he peace wou'd have Ihe power to determine wha( was "eminen( danger." instead of leaving it to the executive of the slate, seems to mi' a proposition thai savors of absurdity. I think the article is sufficient and ample as it stands. The PresiiJenf: The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Heor Lodge, that the militia of (be s(a(e shall not be called in(o secMce exceii( ni case of eminent public danger or of urgent necessity, 190 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES ( adoption of the article will, when their names are called, say "aye." Mr. Luce, of (Jallatin: I call for tiie ri'adin? of Section No. 1. as amended. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 1. The militia of the State of -Montana sliall consist of all able-bodied male citizens, and those who have declared their intention to become citizens of the State, between the ages of eigliteen and forty-five years, inclusive, except such persons as may be exempted by the laws of the State or of the United States." Mr. Luce: There is no such thing- as a declaration of a person to become a citizen of a state. It should read, "those who liave declared their intention to become citizens of the United States and who reside within the State." It is meaningless as it is. Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Presidenl. I hardly think it reads that way. I think that, the inference I would have is that it means a citizen of the United States. The Clerk re-read the section. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke Mr. President: II will be seen that this provision will hinge upon whatever qualification that is made in the article on Suffrage and Qualifications. If that article shall go on and declare that the citizens of this state — and those who are qualified shall be those who are citizens of the Ignited Stales — shall vote, wliy it will he One way: and if it says "those who are citizens of the United Stales, or those who have declared themselves to become such, "it would take them all in. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I move lo re-consiiler the \ote by which this amendment was adopted. - The motion was seconded. The (^liair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. Tlie President: The que.^tion recurs now upon thi^ adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge fMr. Reek'. The Clerk read Mr. Reek's amendment. The Presidenl: \\hat is the pleasure of the Convention concerning this amendment? Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: It seems to me that this is tin' ainendmenl .just passed upon. 'Ihe President: It was adopted by tlie \ote of tlie Convention, but it has been moved lo re-consider, and llie motion In re-consiiler has been carried. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: I wish to offer an amendment to that. I wish to have it so that it will read, the mililia of the Uniteil Stall's shall consist of all able-bodied cilizens of llie T'nili^d Slates. The Presirlent : \\\\\ the gentleman fi-om \)for Lodge acce[il llie amendment? yiv. Reek, of Deer Lodge: Yes sir. The President: The Chair desires to ask tli(> gentleman fi'om Silver Bow if this amenilment is intended to inclmle the wliole section. Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: Yes. The Chairman: The Clerk will read as amended. The Cl(M-k read as follows: "Substitute for Section i. Section I. The militia of the State of Montana shall consist of all able-tiodied male citizens of the State and those wlio have declared tiieir intentions to become citizens of the United States, residing in the State, between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years inclusive, except such persons as may be exempt liy tlie laws of the State iir of the TTnited States." Thi> President: What is your pleasure? Mr. Chessman, of Lewis i,^- Clarke: Mr. I'resident. it seems lo me that any reference lo any amendment here is useless. We hav(> already de- clai'eil in Proposition li who citiziMis of the State are. We have already declared llial he sliall be a cdizen id' the liniled Slates: tie shall have resided in the Slate one year immediately preceding the election at which he offers In vote. We declare there who a citizen of the State is. Now, what is the use of amending it? coxsrrrriKi.NAi. cowkntkin issh ioi Mr. Magiiinis of Li'wjs vS: (ilai'ke: Mr. I'lesiili'iiU what right ha< any Stale til (li'chii-t' any man sulijccl to its niililai-y laws unless he is a ritizea of I ho United States? The President: There is no motion before the house. .Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: I move the amendment be adopted. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Maginiiis of Lewis & Clarke: The .Military Committee have simply declared what citizens of I he State shall be subject to its military duty, and in another article of the (Constitution is is defined what they shall do. I hope the article will stand. .Mr. Callaway, of Madison: In accordance with what the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke has .just said. I do not see how the Slate of Montana can call into service one who is an alien, although he has determined in his own mind to become a citizen of I he United States. There is another objection raised which let me submit to the aer.tleman from Silver Bow. Evei-y man. woman and child liorn within Ihe jurisdiction of the United States is a citizen. This limitation is between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years. Now. he provides in that that all male citizens shall be subject to military duty between those ages: but his amendment is in reference to those who may declare their intention to become citizens. .Now, suppose, sir. that a woman, as sometunes happens n\ this countrj-. declares her intention to become a citizen? I hardly think that would then be the correct thing. Mr. Hiuli'igh of Custer: >fr. President. I think the bill as it reported from the cotiunittee on military affairs is .just exactly right, and T do not i'elieve tliat any amemlment would beneiitit. but rattier injure it. it seems to me it should be adopted just as it came from the hands of the committee. Mr. ISferriam, of Missoula: T desire to offer an amendment to the section. The President: The gentleman from Missoula desires to offer a sub- stitute for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Ivnowles of Silver Bow: Mr. President. I have no doubt but that the State of Montana may have authority to call out — (intei-rupted . The President: The Chair would state to the gentleman from Silver Bow that there is an amendment now offered. The Clerk read the substitute foi- section 1 offered by the gentleman from Missoula Mr. Merriani as follows: ".Ml able-bodied male inhabi- lans of this State between tlie ages of eighteen anil forty-five years who are citizens of the United States, or who have declared their intention lo become such citizens, shall be liable to military duty in this State."" Mr. Merriam. of Missou'a: I move the adoption of the substitute. The motion was seconded. The President stateil to motion. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: T am not sure that that changes the meaning of the amendment that I offered. It seems that all residents. who are citizens of the United States, or who have declared their inteution tfl become such, shall be subject to militarv duty: and as I understand, the committee upon the subject of citizenship will report every person who is a citizen of the United States to be a citizen of the State. >'ow. my object in having persons .subject to military duty who have simply de- clared their intention to become citizens of the United States and who reside in the State, is, that we have quite a large population of that kind, and the further fact that where they have declared their intention to be- come citizens of the United States and are residing with us. they are iden- tified with us: they are supposed to lia\e the same interest in enforcing the law that we have. Mr. Maainnis. of Lewis it Clarke: I wish to ask the gentleman right liere. wou'd he then consider it right to disfrani'bise those people, or does he intend that the risht of suffrage should go with the liahililv to militarv duty? Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: T do not understand that the risht of suffrage should go with the liability to do military' duty. Male suffrasre is based upon the protection of rights that everybody, who is subject to law. should have some voice in enacting and in saying what those laws shall be — not based upon the liability to do military duty. There are a great many of us who are not liable lo do military duty that yet have the right to military duty. .Ml parties over the age of forty-five can vote, but they are not liable |6 military duty. There are certainseclions of the 192 PHOCEEDI.NGS AM) HKHATES ciiiiiilry here in wliirli tliiTc are ijiiilp a laryi' luiinbei- of [jiTsiins who reside here who liave property here, anil who have simply (l(>clare(l their inten- tion lo herome citizens, and iiolald\- in Ihe seelion in Missoula where thi! Keiilleman who cdters Ihis substiliile. comes from: and there will come times when it would he very proiier and very convenient to have those pei'siiiis ahle to pei'lorm mdj'lary duty, and lo he called out lo ito mihlary duty. I am not unmindful of the fact that persons who have simply deidared llieir intention to hecome citizens of the United Stales have done gallant fighting for the Government of Ihe United Stales, and will do gallani fighting for the preservation of the law and order of this territory if called upon to do it, and I am not in favor of excluding I hem from per- forming military duty. -Mr. Stapleton. of Silver How: Mr. President, it appears to me that tlie question of suffrage has nothing to do with the ob.jeclion to or re,jection of this section. Now, tliis section provides, and all amendments thereto provide, that all citizens who are over the age of eighteen and under the age'of forty-five, shall be subject to military duty. Now, those young men who are over Ihe age of eighteen, and not of the age of Ivventy-one, are made subject to miiilai'y duty, and yet they cannot vote: and if you say thai because a man cannot vole Iherid'ore he should m.it be subject to military duty, you are neither making lliose under twenty-one subject to rnilialry duty, nor those who are oxer' forty-five. Vou Should nol allow them to vote when not subject to military duty. But, I do not think one has any- thing lo do with Ihe other. Now, so far as those people who have de- clared their uilention to become citizens but have not carried that intention into effect, is concerned, I hey have property and families in Montana; they have their proixM'ly and Ihe lives of themselves and their families lo pro- tect, and they are just as much interested in repelling an invasion of any hostile force or the enforcemeni of the law, as long as their lives and properly are protected by the law, as anyone else; it makes no difference wlielher they vote or not. The ebject of calling out the military force is for the purpose of protecting Ihe lives and property of people, whether they vole or not; and therefore all iieople wlm are residents of Montana ^^hould be subject to militai-y dul.>-, for Ihe very reason that Ihey are called out lo protect their homers, their li\es and their properly. And there i-; i;o reason why anyone who has become naturalized should not fight for Ihe homes and proijei'ty of Ihe commonwealth. It appears to me, Mr. I'residenl. that it is eminently proper tliat excry able-bodied male resident, whether he is a- citizen of the United States or not. if he resides within Ihe lerritory of Monlaiia, tlial he should b(> subject lo military duty as long as he is protected by the law. If he were not protected by the law, then I would say I hat he had no interest in enforcing Ihe law; but so long as he is protected bv the law it is his risihl and dut\- lo enforce thai law: and therefore [ think they should be mad(> subject to inililary duly. Mr. Merriam, of Missoula; My object in offering Ihis aniendmenl as a, substitute is simply to try lo get every inhabilant of the counlry lo fight for the eounlry in case of necessity, l^et him bi^ a cilizen, a full cilizen. oi- a man who has declared his intention lo become such, it makes no difference; or even if a man conies inio Ihe ciuinlry and accumulates wealth, owns property, and individual inleresis; and is protected by our .eox ernment, I (daim also Ihat those men should be calh^d ui)On in case of necessity to defend the country. But nevertheless this substitute rea(N (the gentleman read the substilulei, and T say that it is ijropm". You will notice in our slatules that all men who have deidared their inlention to become citizens have a right to vole. There was some difficulty in tlie Legislature about thai, and I remember well also that my good friend, .Tiirl.iie Knowles, went to work in 1872 and called a special term of Courl, for till' purpose of giving thosi' iiumi who had ileidan^il their intention lo become citizens an opporlunily to take out their jiapers, I was one of them myelf. Every man who has deidared his inlenlion has a right lo vote, and t do not seel why if a man has a rit;hl lo exercisi^ all Ihe |iri\ ili>ges of citizenship, he slionld not be called upon in case of necessity to fight for the counlry. I hope this siibslilule will pass. Mr. Whilehill, of Deer Lodge: That's exactly the point here, as the genlleman has argued. If he has a right to \ide Iheii he is liable to lie called upon for military duty. 'I'here is a diffeience of opinion in Ihis lerrilory as to wlielher a man can come, into the. terriloi'y and in llii'ee monllis become a fidl l'ledi;ed voler. Now I do not kni>w whether I am in 'aviir id' Ihal nr mil. and I sa\ llial we inifjht as well eillier defer it until CONSTin Tlo.NAl. CdNVI'.NIKi.N ISS'.i 193 we liave di'cided that, or take the question now in its full bearing, and if we decide it now we must be ronsistenl. They ought to be considered to- gether. The President: The qui'slioii before the convention is tipon tiie adoption of the substitute of tlie gentleman fi'om Missoula. A division being called for. the \ote stood, twenty-nine in the affirma- tive to twenty-nine in the negative. The President: The motion is lost. .Mr. .Magnmis, of L,ewis A; Clarki-: .\li'. President, owing to the death of a friend. I am obliged to be absent from the convention and I ask to be excused. Before I go I would likp to |)ul in this as a privileged resolution. ■'The gentleman sent the resolution up to the Clerk's desk.) and ask as a further privilege that it be refei'rcd to the Committee on Rules, f also ask that the Executive File be not brought up until my return. I ask consent to have this resolution read and referred. The President: By unanimous consent the resolution of the gentle- man from Lewis it Clarke will be read and referred. The Clerk read the resolution of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke as follows: ".\niendment to the Rule. Resolved that when the committee of the whole makes its report, that the same shall be read as a whole: then the vote shall be taken upon the amendments recommended by the committee, and when these are disposed of. the report shall be submitted for adoption, rejection or recommittal as a single question." The President: This will be referred to the Committee on Rules. The question now is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Knowles . Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: I call for a division. The vote was taken and resulted in a vote of twenty-eight in the affirmative to twenty-nine in the negative. The President: The motion is lost. The question now recurs upon the original motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. The Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read the amendment. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: Mr. Chairman: I think the amendment was accepted by the gentleman who moved the original motion. The President: The amendment then is lost, as it was accepted by the gentleman from Deer Lodge Mr. Reek . The President: The question is now upon the report of the committee. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: 1 would like to introduce an addi- tional section. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers section P on military affairs. The question before the convention now is upon the section No. 1. the amendments having failed. Mr. .T. K. Toole, of Lewis it Clarke: T \mderstand. Mr. President, that these sections are deemed adopted unless they are amended? The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke fMr. Hersh- field offers an additional section, as follows: The Clerk read: "All inhabitants of this State of any religious denom- ination whatever, as from scruples of conscience may be averse to bear- ing ai'ius. shall be excused therefrom but upon such conditions as shall be prescribed bv the Legislative Assembly." Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I suggest that is not in order until we are ready and have disposed of Section No. 5. The President: Everything has been disposed of now as the Chair understands it. The various sections were passed, and the Proposition was about to he placed upon it* final passage when this reconsideration was had. The question now is upon the adoption of this resolution as presented by the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: I simply wish to test tbe sense of the convention in this matter. It seems to me that it has been entirely neglected. There is a very large population settled in the northern por- tion of our prospective State known as Mennonites. and those people have conscientious scruples against bearing arms. For that very reason they have left their own country, the southeastern portion of Russia. We have also another class of citizens who are conscientiously opposed to bearing arms, the Qiiakers. These men can be used for other purposes In time of nece.ssitv: there are different positions they can be placed in: and T think thai a section of that kind, especially in view of the large immigra- 194 PROCEElJl.NdS AND DKHATE8 tion which wo cxpci't, to have of that class of puoitlc. llio .Mi'iiuouiti's— I think it would not only be saListactory to thcni l)ul would also pncouraKe a larger nundiei- ol' (hose people in setflin;,' among us. Mr. Burleigh, ni Cusler: I regi-et exceedingly to .say lliat 1 am com pelted to dilter from my learned fnend in regard to excepting the Men- noiules and Uuakers. I have no objection to leaving it with the Legisla- ture to provule the conditions upon which they shall be released from imlitary duty, hut 1 will certainly iiMpiire each man lo send a full fledged man lo the front as substitute, i have known some of those people. I'here ;u'e no greater mone>- makmg peoiile m the world, and wliile they are in- dustrious, Godly people, they are the greatest money makers au we iii-ncecd to the consideration of the re|)ort of the committee. I'he Chairman: The Clerk will read Section I. The Clerk read Seclion I as follows: "Section 1. .\ bureau dt Labor and Industry shall be established, to be located at the Capitol of lli(> State, which shall be under the management of a commissioner, who shall he fippoinled by the Governor, subject lo the confirmation of the Senate, aiul shall liold his office for Ihe same term as the Kxecutive State Of- licers." Mr. J. K. Toole, of Deer Lodpr: I move to strike oul Ihe wnrd "In dustry" in the first line and insert ".\j;riculliire" instead. The motion was seconded. The Chair slated the motidii and Ihe same was declared cai'ried. .Mr. Luce, of Gallatin sent iiji an amendment lo Seclion I. The Chairman: It is moved by Ihe geiilleman from (iailalin to amend Section one by striking out in liiie 'i. Ihe words "as the tlxeculive State Officers" and insert in lieu therecd' Ihe woi'ds "of four years." CONSTITLTIltNAf, O ).\VK.\ TIO.N KS«!l 197 llio Cli'i-k i-oail tlio ^;l■l■linll as prDimscil lo he amciKlpd as followTs: "A hui-cau ol Labor and Af-Ticulfuro shall lie i>slablishf'il. In bf located at till- Capitol of the Slalf. which shall In- under the manaKenient of a comniissiouor, who shall be aiipouited by Ibi- (iovernor, subject to the confu-nialion of thi- Senate and shall Imlci hjs ofticc for the same term of four years". .\lr. Luce, of (iailatm: The amiMidmeni cduli'mplali's the slrikins out ot the words ■■the same term." .My object is. .Mi-. Chairman, to give the liM'm. Iiecause if they were appointed by the Governor they could not hold till same term as E.xecutive Officers. Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: We had the same inallir ciudci' I'onsidcra- tion. anil as we did not know what time the (iovernor would be elected and for what term, we put it in the Executive Officers. .\ow if wi- make this four years, it doesn't look reasonable to ask the Governor to appoint a man for a longer term than he is elected for himself. If it was si'tiled that the Governor would be electeil for four years. 1 think it wmild Ih' easier to gel at. Mr. .L K. 'Joole. of Lewis & Clarke: 1 move to amend that motion by adding to it the words, ""except as otherwise provided in this c:on here under direction of some officer to be provided for by the Legislature. So far as the agricultural capacity of the country is concerned, it is pretty well understood by every one here, and with seasons like the present the less information we send abroad in regard to it the better it will be for us. I have no objection whatever to leaving it in the hands of the Legislature to appoint a commissioner, if they want to ilo it. but as to inserting anything of this kind in the constitution I believe i| is out of place and will not be attended with any success. If there is a com- mission or bureau appointed, with three or five men, it will probably cost from three to five thousand dollars. In addition to that they will have lo have a Secretary, which will cost si.500 more: they will have to have an office: where rents are high, as they are here in Helena, it wnll cost ?i50fl more: and it would run up after awhile to !«2o.000 a year. There mav be a provision put in here to leave it to the Legislature lo provide. I!t8 i'HUCEEI)I.\G« Ai\D DEBATES If It is ut'L'i'.s.sai'v, and wlicncvnr necessary, lor one i-nininissinni'r on agri-' oulluro. I do not Ijelieve if is polilic to legislate in this way in a cuir si 1 tut ion. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Ulaikr: l( occurs to me that this proijosition thai, we are now considering, .NO. II, should be considered with I'roposition Ao. 15. It occurs to ine that I he same bureau can subserve the purposi's intended by both of these reports. Section 1 of the .\rlicle we are now considering reads '".X bureau of labor and indiisliy shall he established' i'ic. Seclion 1 of Proposition 15 reads. "A Inireau of agriculture, manu- facture and commerce shall be established" I'tc.: and to bring the matter proi)erly before, the committee, in addition to the change suggested by the amendment now betore the house, 1 move further to ann'iid by insert- ing alter the word "agricidture," which has been suggested by the gentle- man from Silver How, in the tirst iiiic, the woi'ds ■■manufacture and com merce." J'he motion was seeonded. The Chair stated the motmii. .Mr. Whitehill, of Ueer Eodge: 1 also move to amend Ibat by adding the words "mines and mining, " for the purpose of statistics. I think that IS quite'as im|)ortaiit as the rest. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman. 1 (hink it is entirely iiii- necessary and uncalled for in this constitution to define just exactly what this bureau or commission will have to do. We find that the head com- missioner, Carroll E. Wright — that all the statistics he gathers and the Immense labor he does is not defined. He reports all the different statis- tics of the country; that is his duty. I think that the word "industry" would include all the different trades of the state, and I think that would be sufficienl. I don't see that it is hardly necessary to add all this to it. Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: I would suggest that the gentleman strike out I he word "mining." The Chairman: There are two amendments to the motion already oi'tniv (lie house. The gentleman is in order if he has a substitute to lliH Proposition. Mr. Mayger. of Lewis & Clarke: T just merely drew the attention of the gentleman to the advisability of striking out the word "mining." because when he speaks of mines he includes it all. Tlie Chairman: 'J'he question before the committee is the second amendment to Ihe motion to amend Section 1, so that it will read as fol- lows: '"A bureau of labor, agriculture, mines and mming." &c. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Now, Mr. Chairman, as I understand it, we have arrived at the consideration of the question upon the last amend- ment offered by the gentleman to tack on lo all those other matters the words "mines and mining" as the case may be. Now, it seems to ine that, this is too much ot a hodge-jiodge. It would requin- a very versatile character to take the position of commissioner — to be familiar with all tliese subjects, ihe industries enumerated here embrace the principal industries of this territory, and it seems to me that we might separate these to better advantage, and if necessary, have a commissioner ap- pointed or bureau established to lake into considei-ation labor, agriculture, commerce and manufactures. That is quite enough for one man to do: I think it is too much for one man to do. Probably labor ami agrii'ulture would be quite' enough for one m'an. 'I'hen commiM'ce and manufactures would be quite a large range and present quite a field, and give a man a chance to exercise his faculties, it seems to me. 'J'hen mines — thai is one ot the greatest industries of this country, if we are to have a bureau of agriculture and labor and these other inrlustries, it seems lo me we should have a commissioner for mining in this country. Hut I am opposed mix- ing them all up and having one man to attiMid to them all. Hence I am opposed to the amendmeiit as offered by the gentleman from Oeer I,odg(\ The i;hair put llii' motion on the amendment ot Ihe gentleman from I tecr Lodge, and tlie same was declared lost. Mr. Wilier, ot Beaverhead: .Mr. Chairman, inasiniicli as we lia\e sloli'ji a |)ortion of the report from Ihe commillee on iigriculture. we might as well proceed to steal the whole rejiort, and I would otter a sub- stitute to iieiieral l''ile' No, ti and (liMie-ral Eili> .No. t). or Proposilion No. 15 and Projiosilion .\o. il. 'ihe Chairman: The (;iiair thiiilis that is not in order on Ihe motion to amend this setlion. Mr. Witter of Bea\erhe;id: I will withdraw Ihe mot ion. r.ONSlirri'loNAI. Cn.WK.NIION 1SS.\: Clarke: I just want to say a word in nderence to that. It may become necessary for the establishment of some such an office as that, but 1 do not Ihiiik at this time when we are forniiiig a constitution that we ouglil to commence right at the beginning liy loading it down with a series of new officers whose duties may not be t'Oei'dus and wliose compensation may be entirely out of proportion. I think it would be quite sufficient to leave the matter to the Legislative .Vssembly to provide for this officer if it shall become' necessary, and T therefore move the amendment. The Chair put the question on tlie amendment of the gentleman from Lewis i^ Clarke '.Mr. Toole . and Itie same was declared carried. T'he Chairman: If there be no further amendment tri Section I. the section will be con'S>idered as adopted and the €lerk will read Section 2. ■J'he Clerk read Section 2 as follows: "Section 2. The commissioner of labor and industry shall perform such duties and receive such com- pensation as may be prescribed by law: and it shall be the duty of the l^egislative Assembly at its first session to prescribe such duties and cimiiiensation, and to pass such laws as may be necessary for the goxern- ment. regulation and support, of such bureau." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 move to sli'ike out Section 2. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion ami llie same was declared carried. 'I'he Clerk read Section 3 as follows: "Section 3. That any person or persons convicted of a crime in the State of Montana, and while under sentence for the same, shall not lie allowed to labor for any imlividual. comfiany or corporation. .Neither shall the State have power to enter into agreement or contract with any individual, company or corporation, to have convicts do any labor that will in any way compete with free labor." .Mr, J. H. I'oole. of Deer Lodge: I offer an amendment to that section. The Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodge moves as follows. to strike out section 3 and to insert in lieu thereof the following: "It shall be unlawful for the commissioner or other state officers of any penitentiary or other reformatory institution in the State n\' Montana to let by contract to any person or persons, or corporations, the labor of any coavict confined within snid instilution." The motion was seconded. .Mr. J. R. I'oole, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. Chairman. Ihe ann'iidmeiil wliiidi I have offered here is copied from the amendment to the Constitution of the State of Illinois, adopted four years ago. and while then- may be some question in regard to this matter. I think there can be im doubt Ihal this is the proper place to insert something of this kind, if it is believi'd that it should be done. W hen I happened to be a member of the Legislatiiri' at one time, not very long ago, there was a bill introduced for the contracting of the convict labor of this territory which passed one of the houses of the Legislature — it passed the council at that time and came very near passing tlie house a'so: and had it not been for the protest that was raised liy the jieople of the territory of Montana and by the representatives in opposi- tion to it, there is no doubt that Itn' liill would have passed both houses and become a law. I happened, sir. some lime before to be employed a< guard in the Slate of Tennessee. It seems to be a common thing in penal insliliilions to contract tlir lalior of the convicts in them. It is opjiosi'rj to all human principles and all semblances of humanity. It is a disgrace to any civili/ation. Even if a man is a cfunict of the lowest order, it is no ars.'ument or reason why he should be abuseil under such a system of abuse as reigns under fhc system of contracting. The jieople id' these stiates where this system of tale years has obtained have risen u|i and abolished it. 1 notice nearly all of the States, by pro\isions in their con- stitutions, or else by Legislative enactment, have prohibited the system of convict labor. 1 offer the amendment to this .Article for Ihe I'eason that wlien I was on this committee I could not endorse the whole of the article as reiioi'ted by the committee. T coulii not endoi'se it for tills reason. 200 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES that 1 believeiJ it was against the pnni'iiili's of good govoniiiKMil : f lic- lieved it was against the interest of Ihe laljoring men. allliougli lliey asked tliis, or certain portions of it at least ; 1 was not in favor of it, for ttie reason ttiat 1 believe tlial we are fonmieneing at tlie wrong end of tills question. 1 will not oppose any law or any enactment that would prohibit the system of conlract. labor in this country, but I differ willi some ol my colleagues on this matter. I take lhi> ground tliaf Ihe cause of lliese agitations, if they may be called sucli, is not in Ihe fact of an o\ei'-pro- dU'Clion of this world's goods, but in the fact of a wrong dislriljution. We are comminicing at the wrong end of the matter. T'oi' that reason 1 offer this amendment, which will place llie matter in such condition thai ttie convii'ts may not be leased out by contiiactors bul that under the direction of the Slate and under such laws as the Legislature may (>iiact. there may be a provision for their employment, which I believe to be a wise and wholesome regulation. l<"or that reason I offer this amendment and trust it will be incorporated in the Section of the constitulion. It was adopted by the people of Illinois four years ago. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move to strike out the word ■■commis- sioner" and insert "warden or other ijerson." The Chairman: The amendment is a substitute for Section 3 ami reads as follows: "II, shall be unlawful for Ihe commissioners or other state officers of any penitentiary or any other reformatory institution in the State of Montana to let by contnact to any person or persons, or corporation, the labor of any convict confined within said institution." To tliat an amendment is offered as follows: ■■Strike out the word "■com- missioners" and insert "warden or other officer in authority." The ques- tion is now on the amendment Id the amendment. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: It occurs to me that we are here for the purpose of making or atlempting to make a constitution for the people of .Monlana, amt if I undersland whal that means, it is to make a constitu- lion for convicts as well as for free individuals. There was an expres- sion here upon the floor of the convention a few days ago as to the striking oul, of certain words in some other matter Ihaj. was being considered, the nature of which was to indicate that punishment for crime sliould be re- formatory and not vindictive. Now, I submit that these are matters that are proper and fair to come before Ihe Legislature at any time, and unless limiled by constitutional provision, the Legislature willhave power and should have power either to proNide by contract for the labor of these convicts, or by any other means whereby they can give them em- jiloyment. To say that a man coinicted of a crime, because lie is sen- tenced to the penilenliary for five years or for ten years, or for life, shall be housed up and kept in some pl'ac(> where is is not permitted to labor for that length of time, seems to be inhuman and instead of being in the nature of anything reformatory, it is the most brutal character 'of vindictive Justice. On the other hand it is pretended here that this does not prohibit the Stale from resolving itself into a barrel factory Iierhaps and putting those convicts to labor — manufacturing tubs or bar- rels, or perhaps overalls. But does it seem reasonalile Ihal that kind of thing should be done by a State'.' T came from the Stale of Minnesota, from Stillwater, where I was for five or six years. During which time there was in the penitentiary of that state from 350 to 500 convicts. The convii'l labor there was let to a large coi'poration — the Nortliwestern .Manntacturing ami Car Company. That company employed oiilside the convicl labor citizens to Ihe numlHir of about 1500. and I Innc had occa- sion in my business relations to po frequently every week, ami sometimes every day of every week, inside of Ihe walls of lliat penitentiary: nnd the suggestion here made by the gentleman that Ihe treatment by those com- jianies or contractors of convicts was improper was something that I iii'M'i' saw nor heard of Ihere. The men were guarded and looked afler by 111!' officers of the Slale. The convicts were Ireated iiind did the same ciiaracter and kind of work that was done by citizens. Some of (hose convicts were overseers in certain rooms, and departnuMits. '!"he compain was engaged in a larg(\ extensive and varied husiiiiiss. manufai'turing almost all kinds of articles. Thos(> men nexi'r complained. They said Iheir treatment was Ihe liest. .\nd if aiiybod\- will lake and read Ihe "Prison Mirror" i)iildished in the Penilenliary id' .Minnesota, they will see Ihal Ihe Irealment nol only on the (larl of the slale officiM's but of the contractors tor- whom Ihey have labored has been something thin- have nexi'r had occasion lo compliiin of. Now by this Seidjon. whelher you CONSTITUTIONAL CO.WENTION 1889 :;0l adopt the original section or the proposed amendment, you practically provide tliat convictjs stiall be sentenced to absolute solitary confinement; that tlicy stiall not be peinutted to do any kind of labor, because it does not mean anythmg else, for fear that the Labor those convicts should do might in some way come in contact or compete with free labor. It does not seem to me that we want to put anythmg of that kind in the constitu- tion. W hen the Imie arrives in the State of Monana. if ever it does, that the Legislature may deem it wise to make provisions of this kind, which they can do unless prohibited by this constitution, let them do it. But that time certainly has not arrived, and it does not seem to me it is starting out on the right track. I, for one. am opposed to any kind of a law or constitution that would say that a state shall not have the right to make such provision by Legislation as it may see fit for the working of it-s convicts. 1 would rather be in favor of putting a provision in the con- stitution compelling the State to make some reasonable provision whereby cmiMcts may be permitted and have an opportunity to labor. Take a man and put him in a penitentiary for two years even, or for one year, and not permit lum to even exercise his muscles — and I presume they would close him up in a 2xi cell if they could— and what kind of a man will he tie when he comes out? Is that year in the penitentiary intended to re- form him or is it intended to ruin him for life? It seems to me that in the interest of humanity, and common sense, and common justice, that this is the most vicious character of Legislation instead of being a whole- some provision that should be inserted in the constitution.- I am ojiposed not only to the section itself but to the amendment, for they are practi- cally one and the same thing. Mr. Fields, of Park: I have listened with close attention to the re- mai'ks of the gentleman from Custer. 1 first saw the light of day in the City of Joliet, Illinois, where a State l-'rison is located, and I know from what 1 have seen there that convict labor is an injury to the free laboring man outside of the prison. The gentleman from Custer tells us he is familiar with the state of affairs at Stillwater. Minnesota, claiming a car company down there employs six hundred convicts. I believe, and 1500 laboring men, all working shoulder to shoulder. I think that the people are puttmg a laboring man far below his level when they put him out to work with a felon that has been convicted of crime. Those men are em- ployed by companies. I'hey do not in the first place receive the remu- neration for their wages that the free laboring man does and I will warrant that if they had the additional 1.500 men — if they had the addi- tional 1500 prisoners there that not one of the 1500 men would be working in those car factories at Stillwater. Now I do not propose, nor will I ever sanction any law that would stop or prohibit a prisoner from doing some- thing in prison, but I will always uphold and stand by the conviction that convict labor should not be put on a level with the free labor outside of prison walls: and I believe it is WTong — WTong in the extreme that a man. who under the laws and constitutions of his country is a citizen, should be put in contact with and compelled to work by the side of a convict. 1 think it is out of the question. I shall never uphold it. I do not think it IS proper nor right. There has been a great deal of injustice done in that way. I know that in Tennessee that the convicts were given out for grade labor for thirty cents a day. when laborers were getting !?2 and -^2.50 a day: and I think it is. speaking even moderately, a high handed outrage to put those convicts on a level with men who have lived up to the con- stitution and the laws of the state and of the United States. T am ojiposed to the whole system. .Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: Mr. President. I have listened with con-- siderable attention to my friend from Custer in speaking about convict labor, and the enormous evil it would be to the community to prevent those men from working. T presume from what that gentleman has said that he has never read the correct account of the men that have had charge of those convicts, siving the amount of labor that is gi\eii out in those prisons. \\> find in some states that there are certain industries of which from 46 to (iO per cent of the products thereof are manufactured in the prisons and placed out on the market to compete with people f hat- are free. Does th's convention think that it is right or just that a man that has to work for days wage.s — the only way he has to support, raise and educate a family — that he should be placed on a level, either physi- cally or in the open competition of the markets of the world, with those convicts? Should my friend who has so eloipiently argued about pre- 'M-J l'[{()(:KKI)l.\(iS AM) DKHAIKS venting the convipts from workiiif.' Ilko to be phii-ed on a le\ol wjlti those men? 1 tlinik not, and I ttiink tliat ttiose people who liuve lo work at work that conviels rio are worthy of the .same consiileralion from us as any otlier person. Now I claim tliat instead of the work that eonviet.s do lieinj;- a benefit to the eornmunity, it is an injury. I eiaini tliat there is so much work to be done, and ttie fact of the matter is there are more peopji' looking for work than lliere is work lo be done, and the amount of work that is done in the p(Miilenliary is just throwing that many people out of work that they absolutely need in order to secure a living. The consequence is this man, who may be a respectable, honest and worthy citizen must actually descend to theft if he can do no better. Then he is placeil in jail and gets the same as the other convicts do. Now we can take the history of other nations and we find in a great many places that convicts do not work, or at least when they do work they are put tx) work at something that is not remunerative: whatever they produce is consumed in jail, and not placed on the labor market to compete with the labor of honest men. We find in several of the states where convict lahoi' was in vogue of late years, that the people have found out the necessity of preventing them from competing with honest men. Now I claim that in the state of Montana at the jiresent time there are not a great many convicts, but 1 think it would be a good thing to iiiserl in the constitution some clause that would prevent the same things liaiJiiening here that have happened in other places — in Alabama for inslance, at Birmingham. You will find that the convicts are treated there worse than mules, and if we let this system creep in here we have no assurance but that the same crying evils will exist here at no distant riay. I certainly would support the original section, because T do not think it is right that any man who is not a convict should be compelled to compete with a man who is a convict. Mr. Brazleton, of Ueer Lodge: I do not expect to b(^ in the iieniten- tiary very soon, but it seems to me that it resolves itself into this, that somebody is going to be inconvenienced, whether it shall be Ihe convicts or the working man seems to be Ihe question. If that is so. somebody is going to get the worst of it, and I think so long as there is no law that compels a man to go to Ihe penitentiary, let them stay out of it or sulfiM' the consequences. Mr. Breen, of Jefferson: .Mr. Chairman, T have come here as the i-epresentative of the laboring man, pledged to no political party, as you all know. 1 have kept very quiet here, and so have the gentleiiien from districts 11 and 21. which include .lefferson County: but this is a little too much. The gentleman from Custer gets up here and he claims it is not interfering with the rights of the laboring man to place 1500 respectable free men by Ihe side of convicts and compelling them to earn their daily bread in the company of degraded criminals. When a stranger goes along there at Stillwater for inslance, how is he going to know the convicts from the free men unless by their dress? And has the gentleman from (luster no respect for the feelings of his honest fellow men? Hoes he think they have no feelings, or does he suppose he monopolizes all the liner feelings of mankind in the small compass of his own breast? ITow must men feel when they have been degraded to the level of convicts and subject to the same espionage as the convict? Another thing. If we wish to reform the convict, in correcting the right or as a matter for his own good, do we wish to have every passer-by scrutinize him with critical gaze? 1 will ask the gentleman from ('usler, if he had been there in that gang, bow he would like to have a thousand people a day size him up. and after he had come out of there meet somebody face to face, tliat had seen him working with that chain gang at Stillwafi'r? Here is this ques- tion of the constitution, which is supposed to guarantee justice to all classes of people, hut it says that the convicts must lie made to work. Why should they be made to work? To exempt the tax payer from con- Iritiiiting towards their support? This gentleman who hails from Custer, if be is elected to the legislature again — a thing which I hope will not happen — lie will inlT'oduce a bill to establish a shoe factory or some- thing of that kind down in Oeer Lodge. They will manufacture shoes and sell them throughout Montana and in that way pay the expenses of convicls. Now which is it, the p(>ople of Montana or the shoemakers that are supposed to support the penilentiary of Montana? Thai is one thing I wish to know. In the I'nited Slates, on .lanuary Isl. 1877. we had foi'tv-live lliousaiid and some odd hundred conxicts. engaged in labor CO.NtJTITLTKI.NAl. Ci ).\\ K.\ I'lO.N 1889 I'O.'i llial competed with tree labor, ami allowing lor the usual allowances, it was fstiinatcd thai there were thirty-five thousand and some odd hun- dreds thrown out of employment by this labor system: and m tlie Lnit>'d f^lati's there is estunated to be close on two million idle men without em- ployment. It is estimated that we have four thousand idle men in Mon- tana. We have a hundred and fifty convicts that we have put in the peni- tentiary because they were a curse to society, and of course it is too bad t(i l but a iiiu- niPiil. 1 think this aiiH'iiiJnient ollyred liy llic gfiitU'iiian from Silver Bow covers the ground exactly and completely, and 1 shall support it heartily; and to save the work ot Ihis commitlee 1 hope that the preceding amend- ment will be witlidrawn and this one accepted in lieu thereof. This is the point that we have been working for in committee, and I tliink the ciiiiimittee will heartily support it. I for one stiall do so. .Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: I accept the amenduKMit offered, and I will take line iiiiiiiile in reply to a few remarks made by the gentleman from Custer. 1 would advocate the adoption of this report on the ground that it IS in accord with the rest of the constitution. .\ow as I have said, we have had no experience of this kind. The State of Tennessee has had experience with tliis question, and the people there have come to the conclusion that it is inhuman and vindictive in the greatest degree to put these people up to he bought In by contractors. Un that ground I vote in favor of this proposition. I have seen a man in one instance so wrought up that he would sacrifice his life, so driven to desperation w-as he by his surroundings and by sickness and disease, for which he had no redress until his term was served out. I advocate the adoption of this clause in the constitution, and 1 hope it will prevail. * Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: This problem before us has occupied the minds, and the best minds, of statesmen and philanthropists for a number of years, and 1 have not yet had any intimation that it has ever been settled to tlie satisfaction of all persons concerned, and I have very little doubt that after this convention has adjourned we will leave it in the same unsettled, unsatisfactory condition. 1 am as much opposed as any one can be to seeing the honest artisan laboring shoulder to shoulder Willi convict labor: I am as much opposed as any one can be to maintain- ing our convicts in idleness: I believe it is wrong not only to ttiem but wrong to the taxpayer who is called upon to support them in idleness: and when their term of service has expired they come out a burden, and more than a burden to us. Now, gentlemen, 1 do not believe, with all due respect to Mr. Dixon, that this amendment, offered by him, covers the ground, and for that reason I am In favor of leaving this entire proposition in the liands of the Legislature. It does not seem to me that it is our province to attempt to legislate on Ihis question. Mow, I would like to ask Mr. Dixon, or any one else, how convict lalior can be employed by the Stale W'ithout coming in competition either directly or indirectly with all honest free labor. We will have for instance in a few years to build an aflditional penitentiary, or it may be that in a very short while w'e will have to build an addition to the present penitentiary. That may give em- ployment to scores of honest mechanics who will need that labor, but shall we say to this legislature or to that legislature, that they shall not provide for those convicts erecting that building? I say to you that if they erect it by their own labor they come in competition with the honest mechanics. Now 1 do believe that it is safer and better and wiser, if you will let me use that expression, to leave this entire matter in the hands of the Legislature. Two years ago I had the honor to be a member of the Territorial Legislature, and we wrestled wilh this question, and I suppose future Jjegislatures will wrestle with it: and 1 believe that if we attempt to adopt either the original section or any amendment that has been offered in lieu thereof we will act unwisely: and therefore I shall vote — and I hope I am unrlerstood — I shall vole against the adoption of the original or any substitute that may be offered in lieu I hereof. Mr. .1. k. Toole, of J^ewis & Clarke: Mr. Cliairman. I am opposed lo llir ;iilo])tion of this amendment, and I think very much with the genlle- iiiaii from Silver Bow (.Mr. Rickards'. I would like to know how it is tliat the Legislative. Assembly, or any other assembly, shall be able to pi'ivide that these men shall be permitti>d to engage in work for the benefit of the State and at the same time not come in conflict with free labor. It may be true, sir, thai they will be able to put them at work at such em- ])loymeiit as mii;ht nol come direclly in conflict with the free labor of Ihe Territory of Montana, but it nevertlieless is true, that if they are engaged in any industry that is useful and beneficial to the Stale thai lliey will come directly in conllict either with the free labor of the Stale that will bo necessary for the production of Ihose articles, or in conflici with free labor somewhere in the linil(>d Slates. So far as T am concerned, sir, I l)elieve that the Stale is under no obligation so far as its convicts are coMi'erned, especially those comirted ot felony and sent to Ihe peniten- CU.NSTITIjTIO.NAL CO.WEM'IO.X IH89 203 liary, except to provulo lor ttieiii in such a way as shall be in the interest 01 a proper and healthful conilitmn while they are there. 1 would, sir, rather than hring them hi conflict with the free labor of the State or the United States, see In it. sir, that they w'ere permitted and compelled to engage in iintliuig moie than in the practice of the manual of arms: Ihat llic'v might be permitted to do that or some other thing that would be necessary for their health and the proper physical exercise necessary lo secure it. But 1 am unwilling, sir, so far as my vole is concerned, io adopt this amendment or anything which is less restrictne m its chaiacter than the one which is presented in this article by the Committee on l^abor. Mr. jLuci', nf Gallatin: I have but one word lo say, sir. or perhaps two. 1 think that by this aniendiiient presented by the gentleman from Silver How (Mr. Dixon that there is an obligation put upon the Legislature of the State that is impossible of being carried out — that is if I under- stand the amendment, that the J^egislature shall provide for certain work io be done by these convicts that shall not conflict with free labor. That 1 conceive lo be an impossible task. As the two gentlemen who have preceded me have well said, you cnn imagine nothing in the way of labor that produces anything or thai makes anything that will not come in conflict with free labor. Take the ilustration of the gentleman from Silver Bow u\Ir. Rickards, the erection for instance of a State House. .\o\v. that perhaps might be erected by mechanics in the penitentiary, and at the same time just so many free laborers of the same skill or belonging to the same class of mechanics would be cut out of employment: and I conceive that this Section 3 is infinitely better than this proposition that is before the committee now. The last clause of it provides "neither shall the State have power to enter into agreement or contract with any in- dividual, company or corporation to have convicts do any labor that will in any way compete with free labor." There you have said all that this amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow says, and you do not under- take to impose upon the Legislature the impossible task of providing labor for the convicts that will interfere or compete with free labor. I would ureter Section 3 as it is printed. .Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: After all that has been said upon this subject it does not seem to me that there is very much to say, but this, however, 1 will say. thai it has been a well recognized fact that the labor- ing people of this country have suffered very much by being put in com- petition with convict labor; and I feel now" that this is the opportune time to raise this question. T'he gentleman who preceded me said that he was a member of the Legislature two years ago and wTestled with this ques- tion but they accomplished nothing. 1 am in hearty accord with the re- marks rtiade by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke." I feel, however, that there is a feeling rife in the convention that labor is necessary for these convicts, that it would be exceedingly inhuman and cruel not to give them something to occupy their time or divert their minds. I would be perfectly satisfied to have them engaged at something in which they W'Ould not come into competition with the laboring man. I certainly very much differ from the gentleman from Custer in my views in regard (o placine laboring men and convicts side by side, and I also differ with him in the fact that although w-e may be here to frame a constitution for convicts 1 think it is only to see that they receive proper reformatory imnishment for their transgressions. Now then, this substitute proposed hy Mr. Dixnn. as I understand it, I think will provide in a great measure to exert the harm thai usually follows the competition of convict labor with free labor. Anything that will do that will certainly have my hearty accord, and if I thought for a moment that we could pass the section as proposed with the labor bureau clause. I should certainly vote for if: but as the section proposed hy Mr. Dixon comes up first I "shall not miss the opportunity to give my vote in the direction of making a distinction between free labor and convict labor. Mr. Whitehill. of Deer Lodge: I would like to hear from the gentle- nian who has introduced this substitute. If he has in mind any manner of labor by which these convicts can be engaged so as not to" compete in any way with free labor, 1 would like to know what it is. My idea is that if these convicts are employed it should be in some useful labor. This idea of putting convicts to turning cranks, piling up bricks and tearing them down again, I do not believe in. The greatest relief to the human mind which has become morally degraded lies in the consciousness of 20(3 PHUCEKDINGS AM) 1 )EI{A IKS i'.nowirif: that wiiat we do is useful, anti that some benefit will result from our labor, and under this substitute introduced by the gentleman from Silver Bow. 1 do not understand what labor they can provide for the convicts to do. Mr. Stapleton, of Silver Bow: 1 am decidedly opposed to farming out convict labor and bringing it in competition with the honest labor ol the country, tnil 1 am also decidedly in favor of convicts working at some useful empluymeiil. it appears to me that the trouble is not in having them work, but the trouble comes when you ask the question what will we do with the products of their labor. l<'or instance, I believe that every convict, while he should not be brought into competition with honest labor, should be compelled to learn and follow some useful calling. I believe that nine out of ten convicts are placed in the penitentiary for the reason that they have never been taught to work and never been taught a trade and have never been taught enough to make them useful members m the community of which they live, and I believe that every man in the penitentiary who is placed there for a year or more should be taught some useful occupation; the first care that should ln' exercised over hini should be to teach him some useful trade or occupation, so that when his time has expired and he is turned into the world again he will not be turned into the world as a hoodlum, all the time thinking of vice and folly, and thinking what he will do when he gets out, but that he will be ready to follow some honest, industrious pursuit: and if he has learned some trade, when he gets out he has got something that he can make a living at. \o\i give him a chance. Vou do not throw him back again among the criminal classes, but you give him a chance to go among honest, upright people and earn his living the same as they do. But it seems to me that the great question arises and the whole difficulty lies in the problem of what shall be done with the product of his labor while he is m thepenitentiary. There are always poor people enough, and if you establish lor instance the business of manufacturing shoes in the penilenliary you diminish the chances of those poor people who are compelled to earn their living in a corresponding degree. It appears to me for that reason that the question should be left to the Legislature of what shall be done with the product of the labor of the people in the penitentiary. There certainly is a way to the solution of this difficully. You might for in- stance have these convicts manufacture shoes and other ware, and after you have paid for the material there will always be enough of poor people and paupers, and the children of widows, and there will always be or- phans enough and people of that kind, to wear out those shoes. That would not come in competition with anybody. Then you might put the matter in the hands of some officer, or somebody, so that he might seek out the most deserving and give these shoes and other ware lo them, or sell them at such a small price that they could afford to buy them. I do not believe it is the matter of the manufacture hut of the ilisposilion of the products of their labor. 1 believe that the products of their labor should be so disposed of that they would not come in comiielilion wilh the products of the labor of honest men: and for that reason T am not in favni- of this amendment or of this section at all: I am in favor of |ea\liip- this entire matter, except so far as providing here that convict labor shall not be farmed out. to the Legislature. Further than to say that this labor shall not be farmed out I do not think we ought to go in this coinention. i am in favor of leaving everything beyond that to the Legislature. It may be well enough to provide that their labors shall not come into coinpetition with honest labor, but that it shall be a help to them and their families whenever they are unfortunate, and in that way the labor- of the convict will become a blessing instead of a curse to the lahorin? people. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, this resolution, or the sub- stitute, embodies, I think, two propositions: the first is to iirohibit the conlractinp out of convict labor: that T believe all gentlemen here are I'liposed to and certainly it is an evil both lo the convicts thi'ms(M\es and an evil as it comes into comjielilion with free labor. Now, the substilute and the original report both provide for that. Then I here is another mat- ter in reference to the employment of convicts, providing that they shall be emiployed by the State but that they shall be employed in such manner that their labor will not come into competition with free labor. Now it is said, how can they be employed in that way? Why a number and vai'ii'ty of ways suggest themsehes to me. They may he employed in CO.NSTiri llo.NAL CO.W KMKiN IS89 207 liuilUing Ihe walls of prisons: tln'v may bo wiiployed in oilier public works, as was suggcsleil by the gentleman who has just taken his seat — works that the State would not undertake if it nivolved the necessary expense ul paying for theni^ — the nnprovement of water power, &c. I do not intend to argue this question at length. The important thnig I desire to get at IS that the working of convict labor by contract shall be abolished, and that whatever labor is done by these convicts shall bo for the benefit of the State and shall not cniiie into competition with free labor. Now wo have got to leave something to the Legislature, and all we ought to cio is to place the necessary restrictions upon their enactments. W'e can- not provide tor the whole system of the Government of the penitentiary and tor the employment of the labor of convicts in this constitution, but we can bind the Legislature as to what they shall do. Now all that my friend from Silver Bow desires there can be done under this section, but we ntust leave some discretion to the Legislature, and while I desire to restrict them against contracting out the labor of the convict, 1 am willing to leave it to their discretion as to what they shall bo employed in, sub- ject only to the restriction that they shall not come into competition with free labor. 1 go to this extent, that if the Legislature cannot find any employment lor those convicts that will not come into conflict with free labor, then 1 say let them remain idle. I am not one of those who have so much sympathy with convicts and persons convicted of crime as has been expressed in some of the debates upon this floor. If those convicts cannot be employed, or if the only way to employ them is to bring them into competition with free labor, then let them remain idle rather than bring them into competition with the work of Ihe honest, industrious, un- remitting and innocent toilers of the land. (Applause.' Mr. Middleton. of Custer: Mr. Chairman, I do not believe that the gentleman from Silver Bow has satisfied any man in this house that he has explained, in any way, shape or manner, where, if his substitute were adopted, it would be in the power of the Legislature to give the convicts one single minute's w-ork. Now the matter of building a penitentiary is the very first thing, perhaps, that the laboring men and artisans would have the right to object to. That is a character of employment that is intended, perhaps, for the persons fitted for it — citizens who are not con- victs in any sense of the word. It seems to me that looking at this matter from the laboring man's point of view, that the gentlemen are all wrong. 1 have been sat upon here and have been upbraided by gentlemen on this floor as being an enemy of the laboring element. Nothing certainly could be farther from my position. There is no man on this floor that knows any more about hard work, or that for his age has done much morl^ of it in the matter of manual labor, than T have, and when I speak about labor and laboring men. I know what I am talking about. A person com- mits an offense, and is at the time a resident of the Territory of Montana: presumably he is a laboring man. for the most of us are. He is convicted and sentenced to the Penitentiary of the State of Montana. Now are the rest of the laboring men who are left in this State in any worse position by reason of his having to work in the penitentiary than they were by- reason of his having worked before he was convicted and sent to the penitentiary? He still remains a human being: he still remains with hands and legs and means to move about and work. He is confined at the expense of the State, and let me suggest it right here, that when the Committee on Finance of the State, or when this convention comes to provide for the expenses of reformatory institutions and all the public institutions that will be deemed necessary in this State, I do not know where the money is to come from. That is simply- one element to be con- sidered, and 1 say that it is and should be considered by the people of the State of .Montana who are now about to assume the obligations of a young State. She has not resources sufficient to throw moneys into her Treasury to enable her to keep all these men in idleness, and it is in- human to do it if she had. Gentlemen have suggested here that the Legislature has done nothing with this matter. The Legislatures of older states have labored over this matter session after session, and but very few of them have ever attempted even to submit to the people an amend- ment to the constitution providing for anything of this kind. All of the power of legislation so far as a State is concerned that is not taken away from it by the Constitution of he United States or its own Constitution, still remains, so that if this matter be left alone, and if no word be said about labor or convict labor, the Legislature will be at liberty to enact I^OH PHOCKKDl^GS AM) DKBA IKS just sucli laws as Iho times and (lie nooessitii's of tlie times demand. I do not stand on this Moor, Mr. Chairman, to talk lor policy; I do not stand here to talk lor votes. I will say to the f-'fntleman that I agree with him in the hope that I will never come to the Legislature again, lor there is nothing in it tor me. But this is a matter of principle with me, and 1 believe the convention will bear me out in the view that some sort of means should be left whereby the Legislature can make provision for the employment of these men and for some remuneration to the State towards paying the expense of keeping, guarding and caring for those convicts: and I submit that m my judgment the last amendment proposed by the gentleman from Silver Bow is a snare; it means nothing; it leaves the matter just as it is in Section 3, and it ties the bands of the Legislature so firmly that they never can by any means or by any kind of legislation enact a law whereby men who are convicted of crime can be employed without coming into contact with free labor. It is something impossible. 1 am opposed m principle to this matter of farming out convicts: 1 do not believe m that, but t believe that the State should have an institu- tion whereby it can, either through contractors or othei'wise, put in machinery and manufacture anything an^l everything it wants to and put that stuff upon the market and sell it. As was well suggested here, every man convicted and sent to the penitentiary, if possible should be com- pelled to learn a trade, or to perform some kind of labor that would place hiiii where, when his term of sentence was served, he could go out into the world and be of some use and benelit to himself as well as tp society. All men who are sent, to the penitentiary are not viliians. It is true they may have committed some technical offense. Many of them go there who are: but to say that the Constitution shall provide that no man sentenced to the penitentiary shall ever be permitted to learn a trade — because that is what you say if that provision is adopted, that he shall not be permitted to labor — thai he shall not be permitted to exercise even his muscles, except as was suggested, by piling up bricks and throwing Ihein down again — then, gentlemen, I do not know whether i can vote for the adoption of that constitution or not. I do not believe we want to do that. There are institutions in the United States where the honest laboring man has had occasion to com- plain of the way in which convict labor was controlled and handled, bul that condition of affairs has not existed here; there are but a few of the Stales where it has. The genllemen who come here apparently to make a, constitution for perhaps the tvnights of Labor, come here with a large amount of statistics, and they tell us what has occurred here and there and everywhere, but it does not prove much. Leave this matter where the Legislature can say that when that condition of things arises we' will change the law. Now, the mere fact that I made use of in my former il- lustration when t was on the floor before, that 1500 citizens, honest laborers, were working shoulder to shoulder with four or five hundred convicts does not seem to me so serious a matter as some people consider it. The fact is that at the time the contract was let to this manufacturing conipany at the penitenliary of which I was speaking, the Ciy of Still- water had a poimlation of 7.000 people: inside of five years after that over 1500 people, most of them with families, were all doing well and wen^ comfortably fixed in the necessities and comforts of life. Those men went out to work as citizens within the walls of that piMiitentiary. shoulder to shoulder, if you Will have it that way, with men dressed in siriped llannel, and went home to their families, and they were respected as much as any one in that town. And I venture to say to the gentleman back here who spoke about having been a guard in a penilentiary, that if he had performed his duty to the State those men would not h.ive been abused, as he suggested they were. Under a proper system the convicts are guarded by, fed by and controlled by the State, whether under a conlraci system or otherwise, t do not know of my own knowledge of a single Slate where the State does not feed its own prisoners. Now these ar(> matters that are brought in here for the purpose of influencing men who have not investigated this matter to permit to go into this conslitiilion a clause tliat of itself and on its face is vicious, and that in ils effecl will be inhuman; and I believe thai if the men who coniiiose this coineiilion will act from the dictates of conscience and upon their own sound judg- ment, without any other influences, lliey will vote againsi any provision going into this constitution that would tie the hands of Ihe Legislalure in MARTIN MAGIXNIS EDWARD D. AIKEN JOHN R. TOOLE JAMES E. CALLAWAY WALTER A. BURLEIGH WILLIAM M. BULLARD WALTER COOPER CO.Nt^TlTUTlONAL CU.NVENTION 1889 209 any way, shape or manner as to the matter of conMCt labor in the Stale ol Montana. ^Applause.) Mr. Ranisdell, of Missoula: The paramount idea in the human breast, It seems to me, is self-preservatum, and under this system of convict labor the right to honest labor for the time, being taiien away from the free toilers of this country, the law of self-preservation and the right to self- preservation steps in and the laboring man is privileged to demand th*; right to his labor. Today under circumstances in many cases he is denied Ibis right. \\ by? tlecause there is not a sufficient amount of labor; because there are more laboring men than there is work to perforin. And having this inherent right 1 maintain that the laboring man has a right to demand on the part of tlie State that tliese people coii lined wittiiii the walls of a penitentiary shall not be allowed to infringe on his right to labor. If they by their labor shut him out of employment 1 maintain that it is one of nis inalien- able rights to demand that their labor shall not conflict with his labor and that the right of self-preservation with all its logical sequences, shall not be denied him. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Is an amendment in order at this time? The Chairman: ^'o sir. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I will state to the Chair that the gentleman from Deer Lodge withdrew his amendment. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: 1 offered at one time, Mr. Chairman, to withdraw my amendment but my second did nut (•nns(nit, and I desire to do so now. The Chairman: It is rather a stretch of parliamentary law, but that has been the rule of this committee. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: In the understanding of the Chair, is the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge before the committee? 1 only wanted to renew that if it was withdrawn. The Chairman: The question before the house now is on the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: As a member of the committee that recom- mended that report 1 certainly shall oppose the amendment offered by Mr. Dixon from Silver Bow. I think it covers the ground more specifically than the other. It gives the Legislature a chance to exercise some dis- cretion. 1 differ materially from some other gentlemen that have spoken. I claim that any work that is done and placed on the labor market as donated for charitable purposes does not compete with free labor and I shall certainly vote for the amendment. The Chair stated the motion on the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Dixon. Mr. Collins, of Cascade, called for a division. The vote resulted 2A in the affirmative to 30 in the negative. The Cliair declared the amendment lost. The Chairman: The question is now" on the motion of the gentleman from Custer. The original motion is "It shall be unlawful for the commis- sioners or other state officers of any penitentiary or other reformatory in- stitution in the State of Montana to let by contract to any person or per- sons, or corporation, the labor of any convict confined within said insti- tution." To that motion the gentleman from Cust(>r offered the amend ment to insert in the place of the word "commissioners" the words "ward- en or other officers in authority." So that it shall read "It shall be un- lawful for the warden or other state officers in authority." Tlie Chair then put the motion and the same was declared carried. The Chairman: The question is now upon the motion of the gentle- man from Deer Lodge, to which the amendment just adopted applies, and which has just been read. The Chair then put the motion on the substitute offered by the gentle- man from l,)eer Lodge, and the same was declared carried on division by a vote of 38 in the affirmative to 9 in the negative. The Chair declared the substitute adopted. The Chairman: If there are no other amendments to Section 3. the Clerk will read Section 4. The Clerk read Section 4 as follows: "Section 4. That no child under fourteen years of age shall by any corporation or person, be em- ployed in either mines or manufactories in this Stale." 210 PHUCKKIKNGS AM) DKHATK^ .Mr. Gibsun. of Ca.scade, sent up a su|j.stilute for hjoctmii i, which tlio Clerk read a.s foUow.s: "'rtial no child under fourteen years of afii' .'ihall t)e employed hy any person or corporation in the mines of ttiis State, and m no manufactory witlim tiie State, for more than four months in any year. " All-. .Marion, of Missoula, sent up an amendmeni wluch tlie Clerk lead as follows: "Amend hy striking out the word 'fourteen' and inserl in iieu (hereof Ihe word 'twelve'." 'I'he Ctiairman: The question is on the motion made by the ^'enllenian Ironi .Missoula lo amend the amendment offered by the ^:en(|enian from Cascade. .Mr. Knowies, of Silver Bow. I am opposed to the amendment; first, because the child of that age is too young and in the next place. 1 am opposed lo this whole provision. 1 am in favor of leaving it to Ihe Legis- lature. The gentlemen think they have accomplished a good deal when they put a provision of this kind in tho conslitution. I say it has no sense; there is no itenally attached to it: it doesn't amount to the paper it is written on. and it properly belongs to the Legislature, and I believe there is no Legislature that can be convened in Montana but what would enaci a law to that effect and provide heavy penalties for it. Your provision in the constitution doesn't amount lo anytliing; it leaves the whole matter to the Legislature. The l^egislature has .ffot to go over all this matter agam and provide a penalty, and 1 am for that reason opposed to en- cumbering the constitution with such matters as this. Let us put some- thing in that amounts to something: such a prohibition amounts to nothiii!-' whate\er. The Chair put the question on Ihe amendment of the genllenian from Missoula -Mr. .Marion . and thi' same was declared lost. The (Uiairman: The question is now on the amendment olteri>il by Ihe jjenlleman from Cascade (Mr. (.Tibsoni . The Chair put Ihe motion on Ihe question of the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade (Mr. (iibsoni and Ihe same was declared lost. .Mr. Hiiiieifih, of Custer: .Mr. (rbairman. J move to strike out Sec- tion 4. The motion was seconded. Mr. Breen. of .lefferson: If this question is to strike out this like everything else because the gentlemen say that there is no Legislature but what would pass such an enactment, I want to ask how it is that there have been fifteen or sixteen Legislatures and there have been no enact- ments of this kind. We have places in the Territory of Montana in both mines and workshops where it -will kill any child to work four months in the year, and for that reason I am in favor of this provision standing .lust as it is. 1 claim it is no fit place for any child to work in the mine or workshop. They are liable to be blown up or killed: (hey are poisoned with Ihe noxious air of these places, or they may be crushed with heavy weights falling upon them. T am in favor of the provision standing just as it is. Mr. Knowies, of Silver Bow: I would like to ask the gentleman, supposing any mining company fails to comply with that provision of the Constitution, what will you do with him? Are you providing any penalty? .Mr. Breen. of .lefferson: I should ask Juiige Knowies to make some penalty. :Mr. Knowies. of Silver How: Thai is, you would make Ihe Constitu- tion a criminal statute'? When yon want to limit the powers of govern- men! up:in a matter o1 this kind I am not here to interpose any objection, but this is a Inriilatior upen the powei's of individuals, and when yon come lo indiviflnals yon have got to make a penalty — yon have got to adif some kind nf ininislinipnl as a penalty. Now, I have been in fnvor of such legis- lation as this, and whene\-er the time comes in Montana when childien lunier fourteen years ot age are employ(>d in mines or factories, there will he found plenty of legislation upon (hat subject. It has been a fight that has been fought and won years ago in Kn!-''land. 'I'here the jieople rose up in their m.ight and demanded legislation of Parliament to prohibit the working of children in mines. It was found that working children in mines awav from the sunlight, not because they were liable to be hurt, not because they were liable to be injured hy bad air. but because of (he lack of God's sunlight, warpeil them and I'elai'ded their grow(h. C.hildren growing up to manhood want the sunlight: they want the free air of heaven. The youiiL' nf all nninials. the whole animal creation is stunted and warpi'd CO.NSniL I'lONAI. C.O.Wt.NTlON 18«9 211 undm- such i-oiulitions: evpii lish thai have no eyes are al'lecled It was found that the health of the rliiUlreii was ruined by working in mines. And lor this reason 1 do not believe that there is any legislative body that could be convened m Moiilana but would pass a criminal statute. Bui you come in here with a prohibition on your citizens. Why, we are establishing a constitution here for the government, and when the gov- ernment comes into being it can enact such statutes as these. I know of no legislative body in the United States where this question has been presented to them as a practical matter, that has not adopted it. The only thing I know of of the kind where such thing has been declared to !ie unconstitutional is w'here a Governor of Mew York vetoed a bill that provided that the street car drivers of iNew York should not be com- pelled to work fourteen or fifteen hours a day. He said it was not proper legislation. Here i.s a provision for the Statute of Montana Territory that I have been referred to: ".Ml corporations or individuals working mines or manufactories, who shall employ, or permit to be employed, any children, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine not exceeding §1,000."" That is a Statute of Montana: it exists on the Statute Book; it will go into effect as the law of .Montana and be enforced as a law of this State, and your constitutional provision does not amount to the paper it is written on, while that does amount to something. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis iS: Clarke, sent an amendment. The Chairman. The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers the fol- lowing amendment to Section 4. .\dd after Section 4, the following words, "The Legislative Assembly shall enforce this provision by appropriate legislation." .Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: I desire to enter a hearty concurrence to what has been uttered by Judge Knowles lipon this question, and also to record my opposition to the amendment that has just been offered, upon this ground. Gentlemen seem to have mistaken the purpose of this body. \Se are not here as the Legislative Assembly of the State of Mon- tana: we are here for the purpose of enacting constitutional principles upon which shall be based the subsequent legislation of the State. .Now It is argued that this is a good proposition. 1 heartily endorse it: this is a good proposition; so are some things w^hich are contained in the Ten Commandments, and yet at the same time, that is no argument in favor of Incorporating them in the Constitution of the State of .Montana. We are not here for the purpose of making a Statute Book; if we are. then let us take the Statutes of the Territory of Montana, and those that are good, those that are beneficial, those that have served the purposes of this territory well, let us put them into the Constitution and do away wih the Legislative Assembly entirely. Judge Knowles has completely answered every argument in favor of this proposition. Gen-tlemen of the convention we are fast drifting in all of our deliberations too much m the direction of legislation instead of incorporating principles in our constitution, and for that reason I say that though it be a good bill, and 1 would support it were this a Legislative .\ssembly. and were there any penalty affixed to it. yet at the same time this is not the time to liave such a proposition introduced here. If we keep on endorsing and incoi-porating everything that is proposed here because it is good, because It is wise, because it is beneficial, a volume as large as Webster"s Un- abridged Dictionary will not contain the Constitution of the State of Montana. I am therefore not in favor of any motion which incorporates this in the constitution. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from 1-ewis & Clarke, fMr. Toole^ and the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The question is now on the motion to strike out Section 4. The Chair put the motion moved by the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Burleigh, striking out Section 4 and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Eaton, of Park: I move the committee do now rise, report prog- ress and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. :'I2 I'KOCKKUl.NCiS A.M) DKBAl'ES l.\ CO.WE.M'IO.N. I'resident Clark in I he Cliair. The convention was called to order. -\lr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, the committee of the whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 5, being Resolution No. i. m reference to printing (ieneral Laws. They have directed their Chair- man to report to the convention that they request that it be referred to (he committee on Legislalive Affairs. I'he President: Gentlemen of the convention, you have heard the re- port of the committee of the whole on the matter to which the Chair- man has referred, and if there be no objection the matter will be so re- ferred to the Committee on Legislative Affairs. Air. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, the Committee of the whole have had under consideration Proposition iS'o. 11, .\rticle on l^abor, have made some progress, but not having finished the considera- tion of said article, have requested their Chairman to report that fact to the convention and ask leave to sit again. The President: Gentlemen, you have heard the report of the Com- mittee. If there be no objection it will be received and leave granted to sit again. Mr. Katon, of Park, I move we take a recess until 8 o'clock this evening. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer. 1 mov(> as an amendment to (hat that we do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. .\ dnision being called for, the motion of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Burleigh was declared lost by a vote of 20 in the affirmative to 32 in the negative. The motion of the gentleman from l^ark having been seconded, the Chair put the said motion and the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until 8 o'clock P. M. Mcinday. ,)uly 22nd, 1889. Evening Session. 8 P. .M. The convention was called to order, President Clark in the Chair. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The convention upon lakmg a recess was engaged in the consideration of G(jneral Orders. That is now the order of business before the convention. Mr. Gibson, of Cascade: .Mr. President, as my colleajiue. .Mr. Web- ster, is sick, 1 would ask that he be excused. The PresidiMit: iln' geiilleman from Cascade will be excused if Iherc be no objection. Mr. Haskell, of Dawson: I would ask leave of absence for my Col- league, Mr. Goddard, until Tuesday, if he has not been heretofore ex- cused. .Mr. I'resKleiil : II llirii' \ir iio ulijcctinn llii' ticnlli'inaii will lie exciisi>d iiiilil Tuesday. Mr. .1. It. Tonic, III Deer Lddjii': 1 iihinc llial tin' I'din I'lil mn ri'solvi- ilselt into committee of the whole for llie ciuisidiM-al Inn nt Gi'iieral tirders. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: If Ihe genlleman will wail a moment, as Chairman of the Engrossing and Enrolling Committee. I would like to make a report. I sent up the ri'iiorl lo the Clerk's desk. The PresidenI: I'he i-eport ot the Cliairnian of the Eiii;r(issiiig and )';nrnlling Committee will be read. 'I'he Clerk read as follows: Mr. PresidenI, your commitlce dii Kngross- menl and Enrcdiment to whom were rid'erred Propositions Nos. I, 2, and l.'i. beg leave to r(>port that Ihey have carefully comiiared each of the en- grossed copies of said proposilions with Ihe originals as ann'iidi'd in com- niillee of the whole, and find (hem correcdv engrossed. (Signed^ Minni.KTON. Cliaiiinan. (X).\!jilTL ilONAI. CO.WEMIO.N IS89 213 rill' I'lcsiili'ut: 11 tliiTr be iin nbJL'L'tion the report, will be received. .Mr. .Miildleloii. nf Cusler. Mr. Cliainnaii, I move that Proposition .No. 1 be ri'terred to tlie Priutiiig Coniiiutti'e lor the purpose of being priiiled and that Propositions .Nos. 2 and 13 be referred to the Engross- ing and Kiirolling Cuinniittee for the purpos<> of being enrolled. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. i'be President: Thf gentleman from Deer Lodge \Mv. Toole , moves that the con\ontion do now resolve itself into committee of the whole for the consideration of general orders. Is there a second to the mo- lion ■.' The motion was seconded and the same was declared carried. riic President: The geulleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Carpenter, will please resume his position m the Chair. l.N CO.M.MITTEE ()!■' TflE WHOLE. -Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke, in the Chair. The Committee was called to order. Ihe Chairman: Tlie convention is now in committee of the whole on Proposition .No. 11, Section -No. b. The Clerk read feec. 5, as follows: "Sec. 5. That on and after the adoption of this constitution by tlie State of Montana, it shall be unlaw- ful for any company or corporation to pay their employees in any other way than in lawlul money of the United States." .\lr. Sargeant, of Silver Bow: 1 move tliat Section 5 be stricken out. The motion was seconded. Air. Courtney, of Silver Bow: 1 oppose that motion. I think this is a very good provision and would like to si'i' it incorporaed m the Constitution. I am certainly opposed In its being stricken out. 1 shall vote against the motion. Air. Sargeant, of Silver Bow: Tlie reason why 1 object to the clause IS bt'cause it is matter for Legislative action, if incorporated at all; it is something with which this convention has absolutely nothing to do. If this convention is going to I'cgulate all the relations between the employer and his employees, we can sit here until election day and then our duties will not be over. 1 do not think any argument is required to show that this IS not desired as a subject of constitutional provision. The Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried. I'he Clerk read Section 6 as follows: "Section 6. That on and after the adoption of this Constitution by the State of .Montana, all state, county and municipal work shall be done by the day; and that eight hours shal constitute a legal days work for all clases of mechanics and laborers in connection with the same." Mr. .Marion, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman. 1 move that Section .No. 6 be stricken out. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. (^Iianinaii. 1 wish to show the reasons wliy 1 oppose that. It is a well known fact by persons who have paid much attention to this matter that state institutions, both m new and old States, are the cause of more jobbery than any other kind of public business. We are all familiar with the history of Ihe State Capitol of the State of iNew 'lork. I can see no reason why this clause cannot be put into the constitution. The tendency of the times is to something of this kind, and eight hours constitutes a legal day's work in nearly all branches or departments of business. The tendency of the times is sucti that we ought to take this step here and now. The forces of nature arc being utilized to such an extent, that steam, electricity, and other forc,?s are being employed in the matter of labor, so that it is a wrong to interfere with the men who do work and who are growing less every year, and 1 think it is a wrong state of affairs, when men who are compelled to work are made to work ten, twelve and fourteen hours a day. They are the very class of people who should advance in this world and who should have that time and opportunity to read and keep pace with tlie times and cultivate their minds that give men a taste for the higher things of life. Ihe State would lie belter fur it: ttie community at large would be better 21 i I'ltOCKEDI.NCiS AM) l)KH.\l'K8 lor il. I'lie triiili'iicy nl llir limes is in ituU direcUoii ami is pciiuliug Lhal way. Killier this sui'lion or some similar one should he adoi)U'il. Mr. Marion, ol' iMissoula; .\lr. Chairman. 1 liave no remarks to maki' in regard to Ihis section. 1 belieM' I lie ineaninj.;- of the section is plain cnougii. A division being called lor the motion of the gentleman from Missoula (Mr. Marion- was declared carried hy a vote of ;;i in the attirmalive to ID in the negative. J'lie Chairman: I W'ould call Ihe allenlion of tlie commiltee to tlie tact lhal three other propositions were referred to the commitlee lo be considered m connection w"ith this proposition. What is the pleasure ol the committee? Mr. J. H. Toole, of Ueer Lodgi/: I mcxe that w'hen tlie committee rise It refer the propositions back wiih iiir recommendation that they do not pass. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hogan, of ISilver Bow: 1 would offer as an amendment to that motion that those propositions be read and acted on se|iarately, so thai the members will know what they are referring back. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Middleton, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, 1 hope this motion will not prevail. The gentleman who made the motion that they be referred back with the recommendation that they do not pass knows that the contents of tliem and knows that the substance of them to a considerable extent was embodied in (he proposition just considered, and it seems to me a complete waste of tune to consider all these propositions again after the mam propositions have been considered and acted upon. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I ilnnk there is one (iroposition there about Chinese labor which was not embraced. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, in reply lo the gentleman 1 would state that tliere is nothing in any of these propositions that has any bearing on what has been acted upon, and my reason tor moving the amendment was to have each proposition read and acted upon separ- ately. If the committee wishes to take any action upon them li't them do so, but let us not throw them in the waste basket without knowing what we are doing; Mr. Callaway, of Madison: It seems but fair that the gentleman who moved these propositions should have Ihem considered, and I hope to see the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow, carried. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: 1 simply wish to say that 1 hope the motion of my colleague from Silver Bow (Mr. Hogan) will prevail. For one, 1 should not wish to see any person or any proposition tr(>ated un- fairly. 1 believe that a proposition should stand on its merits, if it has any, and if it has not, this body is competent to judge. I hope there will be no disposition shown at any time by the committee of the whole or by this convention to treat discourteously any proposition of any gentle- man of this convention. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: J do not believe in any wholesale disposi- tion of propositions and 1 am in favor of the motion made by the gentleman li'oni Silver Bow (.Mr. Hogan', with reference to considering these propo- sitions separately. As the gentleman from Cusler has suggesled, the gen- tli^nan who made this motion to refer them in bulk may be well acquainl- ed with their contents: the gentleman from Custer himself may be well acquainted wilh their contents: but I venture lo say there is not upon the floor of this committee room a half dozen members who can tell what these propositions are. Hence, 1 am in favor ot taking them up si'parately and gi\ing them proper consideration before reporting thiMn back. The Chair put the motion of tlie gentleman from Silver How i.Mr. Ho- gan), and (he saiiK^ was declared carrier. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Ihe propositions. The (jlerk read as follows: "I'roposilion No. 7 by A. H. .lo\. (Ihiiu'se Labor. Section L Par. L No corporation now existing or hereafter formed under the laws of this State sliall after the adoption of this consti- lutioii employ directly or indirectly in any capacity any Chiiiivse oi' Mon- golian. Far. 2. The legislature shall pass sucli laws as may he necessary to enforce this provision. Section 2. No Chinese shall be employed on any Slate, county, munici- pal, or other public work within this State except in punishment for crime. CU.NSTITLTIONAI. CO.W K.\ TION 1889 215 tSoction 3. I'ai'. I. I Ik- Lcsislaliiri' shall discourage by all moans wilhin Its power tlu' iiiiinigralioii to tins Slate ol all foreigners ineligiljle til liecome eidzens of Ihe Liiited states. Par. -!. All contracts foi' CInnese and Cnolic labor hereafter made lo l)e performed in this State shall be void. far. ii. All companies or corporations, wiielher formed in tins counlry or any foreign country, for llie importatuin id such labor shall be pun- ished by sucli fines and penalties as the legislature may prescribe. Par. i. I'he legislature shall delegate all necessary power to the in- corporated cities and towns of this State for the r(Mno\al of Chinese wilti- cul the limits of such cities and Inwiis, or for their location within pre- scribed portions of those limits. Air. Chessman, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman. 1 ask that tlK^ history (d' the proposition be read. The Clerk read as lollows: Proposition .No. 7 by A. H. Joy. Chinese Labor. July llth, received, read and referred to Committee .No. 23 on Labor. .Mr. President: The Committee on ]-,abor have had under con- sideration Proposition iNo. 7 and have directed me to report the same lo the convention with the recommendation that it do not pass. This does not apply to paragraph i of Sectinn 3. which we recommend be referred to the Committee on Cily. County and town organizations, where it prop- erly belongs. Signed BREE^', Chairman. .\lr. Kickards, of Silver bow: 1 move that when the Committee rise they report back to the con\enlion. recommending that this proposition do not pass. The nil it ion was seconded. The Chair imt the motion, and tlie same was declared carried. i'he clerk read as follows; Proposition .No. 3 by iiogan to prevent importation of labor under contract iiitn tlie State of Montana. It shall be unlawful for any individual, company or corporation having work done in the State of .Montana, to imporl into the State any person or jiersons under contract or agreement In perform any labor in the State of .Montana. That any mdnidual. cnmpany nr ciupnratioii \iolating any provision hereof, shall forfeit to the Stale one thousand dollars $1,000; for each and every violation hereof, to be recovered by an action at law. The clerk read the history of said Proposition as follows: Proposition .No. 3 by Hogan, to prevent importation of contract labor. July llth, re- ceived, read and reterred to (lommittee .No. 23 on Labor. .Mr. "l^resident: Ihe Committee on Labor ha\e considered Proposition .\o. 3 and have di- rected me to report the same Ijack with the recommendation that it do not pass. (Signed PETEtt BREEN, Chairman. -Mr. J. R. looli', ol Deer Lodge: I move that when the committee rise they report the resolution back with the recommendation that it do not pass. The motion was seconded. .Mr. ttogaii, of Silver Bow: I woulil stale lo the Commillee Ihat 1 hope this motion will not carry. .My reason for doing this is that the only objection w^hicli was brought up in the Committee against it, or seemed to be. was the unconstitulionality of it. I do not think myself it is un- constitutional; it may be. but 1 do not think It. 1 think there are several things we ha\e done that would infringe on the rights of the [jeople as much as that. 1 belie\e it would be a benefit lo all the people of the T'erritory: 1 believe it is something that would tielp Ihe Territory in dif- lerent ways. There is one thing it will do; we will get a better class of people in here. 1 do not believe any jierson that is brought in here under contract is worthy to be an .\merncan citizen. They are generally a class of people that are not identified with the .\merican people or their institu- tions. They are an injury to everybody. That is the reason why I hope the motion will not prevail. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a \ole being taken, Ihe same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Resolution .No. 17 offered by Field ol Park: Protection of Discharged Employees. July llth, received, read and referred to Committee .No. 23 on Labor: July 20tli. reported back wilhniil ai6 I'ltUCKEDliNUS AM) DEBATES recoiiiuieiulalioii ami iilaced cm (icucial I'llc wiUi .\(i. Ci. Mr. I'cfsKli'iil : >.our Commiltfp on l^abor to wlKuii was rdcrred Hesolulioii .No. 17 iiili-u- duced by l-'ield of I'ark, have had the .saino under fnusidcralioii and have dii'i-'c'tcd me to rci)()rl the same back wilhuut recommendation. (Signed I'EIEK BHEE.N, Chairman. Resolution J\o. 17 relating to ttie protection ol discharged employees: Hesolved, first, That il any person, agent, company or corporation alter haMng tlischarged any employee from liis or its service, shall prevent or attempt to prevent by word or writing of any kind such discliarged employee from obtaining employment wilh any person, company or cor- poration, such pecsan, agent or corporation shall be guilty of a misde- meanor and shall be liable for damages lo be recovered by civil action. Second: If any railway compain, or any other company or partner- ship or corporation m this State sliall authorize or allow any of its or their agents to blacklist any discharged employees, or attempt by word or writing or any other means wliatever to prevent such discharged em- ployee or any employee who may have voluntarily left said company s service, from obtaining employment with any other person or company, such company or co-partnership shall be liable in treble damages to such employee so prevented from obtaining employment, to be recovered by hnn by a civil action. The Chairman: What is the pleasure of the committee'.' Mr. Middleton, of Custer: 1 move that when the committee rise it report the resolution back to the convention with recommendation that it do not pass. rile motion was seconded. The Chair put the motimi to the house and llie same was declared earned. -Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 move I hi' committee rise and report to the convention. I'lie nidi ion was seconded. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I move, sir. that when tln.^ committee rise it report Proposition No. 11, with the amendments, back to the convention with the recommendation that it be passed as amended. The motion was seconded. T'he Chair put the motion to the House and the same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 now renew my motion that the committee do rise and report. T'he Chair put the motion of the gentleman from Custer and the same was declared lost. Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead: .Mr. (Chairman, 1 mo\e we take up Prop- osition No. 18. Tliere was no second to the motion. Mr. Marion, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I move you, sir, that this committee take up General File No. 14, Proposition No. 15 in relation to the Bureau of Agriculture. The motion was seconded. The Chair put Ihe question on said motion and the same was declared carried. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Eewis &v Clarke: I move. .Mr. Cliairiiian. to strike out Proposition No. 15. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, the ai'ticle which has just been adopted by the committee of the whole has a iicoxision in il by which the Legislative .\ssembly may [irovide for a commissioner oi Labor and Industry. I take it that that is sufficiently comprehensive lo embrace a Commissioner of Agriculture, if the Legislature shall d(>em il necr'ssary to create lliat office. I think, sir, from the start that wc ought fo make as economical a government under this conslitution as it is Iiossible for us to do. At this time llicrr is in my judgment no special aemand or necessity for the creation nl that office, but if there should be iirioii the assembling of the Legislative Assembly, which will be nol later perhaps than the l.'ith day of November next, in my judgment. theri> is ample opportunity for the creation of I hat office. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, 1 mo\e to aiiiiMid the motion made by the gentleman from Jjcwis ^^ Clarke, that w-hen Ihis committee use, it report this section or article back to the convention with Ihe recom- ini'ndalion thai it be stricken from ttie file. The motion was seconded. CO.\STllLTl().\AL GO.WK.NTIUN 18«9 217 i'lie Cliair put the quesdon on the motion of the gentleman of Silver How Mr. Clark and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Witter, ol Beaverhead: .\ir. Chairman. I move thai we take up Proposition .\o. 1 i. General i'lle 'No. 12. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Kickards. ol iSilver Bow: .Mr. Chairman. 1 move to amend to lake lip tieneial J-ile .\o. II. Proposilion -No. 13. The Chairman: That has been passed. .Mr. Collms, ol Cascade: Proposition .\o. 18 relating to School Lands, has tliat been passed? The Chairman: J'he motion before the committee is to take up Prop- osilion -No. 14, General File .No. 12 In relation to Kighls of Suffrage. Mr. Collms, of Cascade: I'lie gentleman from Silver Bow moves to nmend to take up .No. 13 instead of .No. 12. The Chairman: Thai has been passed by the convention. I'he Cliair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Beaverhead and the same was declared carried. The Chairman: V\ hat is the pleasure of the committee? The Clerk will proceed lo read Section 1. i'he Clerk read as follows: "Section I. .\ll elections bv the people shall be by ballot." Mr. Cardwell. of Jefferson: I would ask thai section 2 be passed over lor the present. Some of the gentlemen who are on that commiltee are not here tonight. 1 would ask that the section be passed for the present. .Mr. Bicklord, of .Missoula: I would move you, sir, the Proposition No. 14 be made the special order for 2 o'clock in the afternoon of Wednesday, 1 make this motion for the purpose of enabling all the members of the" committee who made this report to be present. I'he motion was seconded. The Chair slated the motion. .Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead: It occurs to me that if that is the only proposition that the committee wish to amend, that that might be referred and made a special order at that time and we could proceed with the rest of the propositions, and not take up some other proposition.- .\s I under- stand, there are to be some amendments relating to the qualifications of voters, and who shall be enlilled to vote. 1 would move an amendment that Section 2 be made a special order inStead of the whole proposition. .Mr. BuUard. of Jefferson: I would ask if amendments cannot be of- fered when this proposition comes up for final passage? The Chairman: That is the rule of the convention, as the Chair understands it. .Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman, I do not see that there is any use for us to be deferring these different propositions. It will cer- tainly not go to its final passage this evening. Some of the committee can be here on its final passage and offer the amendments. 1 think if the members of those committees want to be present they should be here. We don I care about spending the summer here, and if you defer all these propositions ,jusl to suit the committeemen, you are apt to lie here until next October, -Mr. Bickford. of .Missoula: .Mr. Chairman. I made the motion for the reason that one of the members of thai committee is a cripple. He finds It. if not impossible at least very inconvenient to be out in the evening. He has an amendment to offer to some portion of this Proposition No. 14 which he considers material, and upon which he would like to be heard. 1 believe, sir. that the motion sliould prevail for this reason alone. I be- lieve that we should extend to every member of this convention every courtesy that is within our power to extend, and I believe, sir. that it is our duty to listen to any aentleman who has an important amendment to offer to a proposition of this kind. -Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman. I desire to state my concur- lence with the views of the gentleman of .Missoula in regard to this matter. I am well aware that one of the gentlemen, a member of this committee, If not able to get here very well in the evening. He is a gentleman that is Nery deeply interested in this subject, and I think in all courtesy to this gentleman that we should defer the consideration of at least this section until It is convenient for him to be here with us in the day time, .Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: 1 second the motion of the gentleman from Missoula. :i^l8 I'ltOCKKDI.NCiS AM) I )KHA IKS Tile Chair put tin' iiupstioii on nioliou ol' Uk' gniillcmau from Missoula Air. Bii'klord . the sainij was declared carried, the l^roposition .No. 14 was declaimed the special order tor Wednesday atteniooii al 2 P. .\1. Mr. Bulord. of JMadisoii: 1 move this coininittee now take up Kesolu- tion Ao. 8, General J-'ile, JNo. 13. i'lie molKin was seconded. The Chair pul the motion and the same was declared carried. i'he Clerk read KesoluUon .No. 8 as follows: "Kesolution .No. 8 relating: to Sclmol Lands, introduced by Luce. Kesolved, that none ol the lands granted hy Congress to the State of Montama for the support of common schools sliall ever be sold or granted, or disposed ut in any manner e.vcept by lease, nor shall any moneys received therefrom be used for any other purpose than for the support of the common schools of the Stale.' Mr. Bullard, of Jefferson: I move you, sir. ttiat when the committee rise it report this section back with the recommendation that it be adopted. Mr. J. K. i'oole, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 desire to offer an amendment which 1 will send up in a moment, Mr, Bickford, of Missoula: I desire to offer an amendment. The Clerk read the amendment of the gentleman from .Missoula .Mr. Bickford' as follows: "Hesolvcd. that the lands granted by Congress lo the State of Montana for the support of common schools and for uni- versity purposes, may be sold or leased in the manner and at such times as may be prescribed hy law, provided that none of such lands shall be sold for less than .'JSIO an acre." .Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Com- mittee on Education, 1 express for myself, and 1 think for our committee, regret that we have taken up this matter al this time. The subject em- braced m the original [iroposition. as well as the amendment just read, has been g'one over thoroughh- by the committee to which I refer. Our report is before you m printed form, and I think it would be manifestly unjust to your Committee to entertain this proposition at this time for consideration; and therefore I move as a substitute for all that is before us that when this committee rise they re|iort liack this proposition with the recommendation that it be considered at the same timi> with (ieneral l-'ile I\o. 16, which is the report of the Committee on Education. The Chairman: The Chair is of the im|iression that this resolution is not in order al this time. The Chair is of the opinion that a resolution was passed a few days ago that wtien these independent propositions upon sub,jects cognate with the report of standing committees came up they should be consulered with them. The resolution Is therefore not in order, and will be considered when the report of the standing committee on Education is before the committee, Mr, Clark, of Silver IrSow: i move tlial we take up I'ropdsitiun .No, 21, General l Clerk read as fnlhiws: ".-Xrlicle — Judicial 1 leparlmenls. Section I. ■J'he .ludicial jiower of Ihe State shall he vested in the Senate, sitting as :i court of impeachment, in a Supreme Court, District Court, ,lustices ol the J'eace, and such oilier inferior courts as the Legislalne .\sseinhl,\ may establish in any incorporated city or town," .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I ino\i' In slriki- mil the wnrds "sitlmg as a (;ourl of Impeachment. I'he motion was seconded. .Mr- Burleigh, of Custei': I hope Ihe aiiiendmeni will nut prexail. ThiM'e is not a Slate in this Cnicni that does not pi-dvide a Court of Iin- Iieachmenl in dealing with certain olficers, and it is as much a jiai't of the duty of the State as its Supreme Coiiii. It is a wonderful proposition lo come from a genlleman of the legal lore and learning. of my friend li-nin gi'iillenian from Cascade (.Mr. Collins) and Ihe same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section '2 as follows: "Section 2. T'he Supreme Court, except as otlierwise proMded in this Constitution, shall have appellati> jurisdiction only, whicti shall be co-extensive with the State, and shall have a general supei'intending control over all inferior courts, under sucli regulations and liiiulations as may be prescribed by law." There being no amendments to section ,', the Clerk read Section 3 as loiiows: ■"Section 3. The appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall extend to all cases at law and in equity, subject, howe%er, to such limitations and regulations as may be prescribed by law. Said court shall have power in its discretion to issue and to hear "and determine writs of habeas corpus, mandamus, quo warranto, certiorari, prohibition and in- junction, and such other original and remedial writs as may be necessary or proper to the complete exercise of its appellate jurisdiction. When a jury Is required m the Supreme Court to determine an issue of fact, said court shall have power to summon such jury in such manner as may be provided by law. Kach of the justices of the Supreme Court shall have power to issue writs of habeas corpus to any part of the State, upon peti- tion by, or on belialf id', any person held in actual custody, and may make such writs returnable before himself, or the Supreme Court, or before any district court of the State, or any judge thereof: and such writs may be heard and determined by the justice, or court, or judge, before whom they are made returnable. Kach of the justices of the Supreme Court may also issue and hear and determine writs of certiorari in pro- ceedings for contempt m the District Court, and such other writs as may be authorized by law to issue." There being no amendments to Section 3, the Clerk read Section i as follows: "Section 4. At least three terms of the Supreme Court shall be held each year at the seat of government." There being no amendments to Section 'i, the Clerk read Section 5 as follows: "Section .5. 'Ihe Supreme Court stiall consist of three justices, a majority of whom shall be necessary to form a quorum or pronounce a decision; but one or more of said justices may adjourn the court from day to day, or to a day certain: and the Legislative Assembly shall have the power to increase the number of such justices to not less than three nor more that five." There being no amendments to Section 5 the Clerk read Section 0 as follows: "Section (i. The justices of the Supreme Court shall be electeil by the electors of the State, at large, as hereinafter provided." 220 PKOCKKDlNCiS AM) HKBA IKS I'hpi'p lining no amendnit'iits to Section (l llu' CAcrk road Section 7 as lollows: "Section 7. The term of otlice ol llic justices of the Suprenni' (_]ourt, except as in this constitution otherwise provided, shall tie six years. " There hemg no amendments to Section 7 the Clerk read Section 8 as follows: "Section H. 'I'liere shall be elected at the first freiieral election provided tor hy this constitution, one chief .justice anil two associate .jus- lices, Willi sliall conslilule the judges of the Supreme (^ourt. and Ihey shall hold tlieir offices unlil I heir respective successors are elected and quali- fied. ']'he terms of office of said justices shall be designated on the ballots at the time of their election. The chief justice shall at said first election be elected for the term of three years, and said two associate justices. one for the term of five years, and one for the term of seven years, and after said first election one justice (or more, if the Legislative Assem- bly shall increase the members to five) shall be chosen every two years, and the terms of office of said additional justices shall be fixed by law in such manner that at least one of said justices shall be elected every two years. The chief justice shall preside at all terms of the Supreme Court, and in case of his absence the judge having the shortest term to serve shall preside m his stead." -Mr. Witter, of hieaverliead: There is one question 1 wouki like to have explained. After tlie first term who is to be chief justice. Mr. Uixon, of Silver Bow: As 1 take it the judge who is elected to succeed the chief justice will succeed the chief justice. Tlicre being no amendments to Section 8 the Clerk read Section 9 as follows: "Section 9. 'I'here shall be a clerk of the Supreme Court who shall hold his office for the term of six years, except that the Clerk first elected shall hold his office only until the general election in the year 189';!. and until his successor is elected and qualified, hie shall be elected by the electors at large of the State, and his compensation shall be fixed by law, and his duties prescribed by law, and by the rules of the Supreme Court. .Mr. Collins, of Ca-scade: Mr. Chairman, I again move that that section be amended by striking out the word "six" and inserting "two " where it refers to the years in the second line. Change the term from six years to two years. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. Chairman. 1 can see why a judicial office should have a comparatively long duration, but 1 can see no reason why a clerical position, more particularly a political one, as the Clerk of that Court Will be to a great exteni, should hold an office for six years. I be- lieve that the people should have the opportunity of elecling the man who fills that position as often as they elect ttie one who fill Ihe important positions in Ihe several counties and in the State. The arguments which obtain as to the advisability of the long duration of judicial officers cer- tainly will not apply to this clerical office, and taking all positions without an exception, judicial or otherwise, I believe that the nearer they come to the people the better they are for the people; the better they will per- form their services and their duties, and the better satisfaction they will give. And if they are officers who are inclined to shirk any of theiT duties, if they do not comply with the law, Ihe people at the following election can relegate them to private life. I believe in having elections often, and moi'e particularly for clerical position. I hope llial the term of this office will be reduced, if not to two years, at least to four. Mr. Burleigti. of Custer: I oppose the amendment of the gentleman for this reason, that the office of Clerk of the Supreme Court is one of the most important offices connected with that body. It is not every novice that can go into the Supreme Court room and discharge Ihe duties there, and 1 think it would be the height of folly, with all due respect to my friend s belter jiidgment.-for I know he is a man of sterling judgment: he never errs except when he gets on a judicial matter of this kind — but it seems to me that the Clerk of the Supreme Court should be elected for as long a term as one id' the judges. Aow it is the custom in many of the States to afijioint a Clei'k during life or good behavior, but out in this new territory that is starting out de novo in all of its branches there seems to be a dread of lite appointments. In conseiiuence I say it is better to refer Ibis mattei' to the people, and tlie judiciary cominittee having this thing under consideration concluded after looking at it in all of its phases thai it woiikl be better to fix the term with that of the judges, six CO.NSTITL ilO.NAI. Ci ).N\ K.MH i.N IWJ L'-'l years. 1 think it is oiiniu'iitly inMipcr ttiat it sliouid be su. and while 1 know It ;s a Hire tiling to j;o before the peoiile i>\ery two years, and there is a sort of sound about it, tliat is very (jleasant In the popular ear. it never- theless wMll obstruct the administration of justiee m our J>upreme Court. We have endeavored in organizmf^ a Supreme Court here to organize it U|)on such a basis as will insure speedy action and a certain deteriiiination of all questions brought before it. And there is not a judge on the Su- preme Hencti. there is not a lawyer who pmctices in the Supreme Court, who does not know it is quite important to have an active, intelligent, up- right Clerk, as to have an active, efficient, intelligent, upright judg(> on the bench. 1 hope the reconnnendation of the committee will be carried out. \\ hile 1 am very sorry to come into contact with my learned and amiabie friend from Cascade, yet 1 think he will come to the conclusion that although it may not have as much of the popular ec-lai abnut it as It should have, yet it is the better course to pursue. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman fnim Cas- cade, and the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 9 the Clerk read Sec- lion to as follows: "Section 10. .\o person shall be eligible to the office of Justice of the Supreme Court, unless he shall have been admitted to practice law m tlie Supreme Court of the territory or State of .Montana, be at least thirly years of age, and a citizen of the United Stales, nor unless he shall have residi'd in said territory or State at least two years next pre- ceding his election.' .Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, I move you that the com- mittee do now rise, report progress on Proposition No. 21, and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put tlie question on the motion of the gentleman I'rom Custer (Mr. .Mlddletom and a division being called for, the same was de- clared lost by a vote of 22 In the affirmative to 31 In the negative. There being no further amendments to Section 10 the Clerk read Section 11 as follows: "Section It. The District Courts shall have orig- inal jurisdiction in all cases at law and in equity, including all cases which unolve the title or right of possession of real property, or the legality of any tax. impost, assessment, toll or municipal fine and in all cases in which the debt, damage, claim or demand, exclusive of interest, or the value of the property in controversy exceeds fifty dollars: and in all crim- inal cases amounting to felony and all cases of misdemeanor not other- wise provided for; of actions of forcible entry and unlawful detainer; of proceedings in insolvency; of actions to prevent or abate a nuisance: al all matters of probate: of actions of divorce and for annulment of marriage, and of all such special actions and proceedings as are not other- wise provided for. And said Courts shall have the power of naturaliza- tion, and to issue papers therefor in all cases where they are authorized so to do by the laws of the United States. They shall ha\e appellate juris- diction in such cases arising in justices and other inferior courts in their respective districts as may be prescribed by law and consistent with this constitution. Their process shall extend to all parts of the State, provided that all actions for the recovery of. the possession of. quieting the title to. or for the enforcement of liens upon real property shall be commenced in the county in which the real properly, or any part thereof, affected by such action or actions, is situated. Said courts and the judges thereof shall have power also to issue, hear and determine, writs of man- damus, quo warranto, certiorari, prohibition, injunction and other original and remedial writs, and also all writs of habeas corpus, on petition by, or on behalf of, any person m actual custody in their respective districts. In- junctions, writs of prohibition, and habeas corpus may be issued and served on legal holidays anti non-judicial days," Mr, Cooper, of Gallatin, sent up an amendment to Section II. The Chairman: The gentleman from (iailatin Mr. Cooper moves to strike out in line four the word "fifty" and insert the word "one liundi'ed. ' The motion was seconded. Mr. Cooper, of (iallatln: 1 would like to have that section fixed so that settlers along the lines of these railroads can collect the value of a horse without having- to go to the IMstrlct Courts. .Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: 1 think the gentleman misunderstands the i22 PHOClLKlJl.NCiS AM) DKIiAlKS meaning' of the section, i'lie district court may liavc jurisdiction ot all cases where the amount in eontrovercy exceeds fifty dollars, hut tliat does not prevent the inferior coiirls from havinii jurisdiclion o\er a lal■^'er amount than fifty dollars. :\lr. Cooper of Ciallatin witliUrew the ameiidmeiil. -Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: 1 now desiri- to renew lln- iiiolioii wliicti was made a few minutes ago, that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. I will slale my reasons, if tlie Chair will put the motion. llie motion was seconded. The Chair stated the ni(jtion. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: In explaiial ion ol the moluni I would say. Mr. Cliairniaii, tliat the very next section provides for the division of Hie fstate into judicial districts. A large numher of the members from ilif^ lereni parts of tlie territory are now ahseiit who are anxious to he here when this proposition is reached. The report of the Judiciary Committee evidently contemplates tliat the members from the different parts of the territory should I'xpress tlieir opinion, their will, and ttieir wislies with reference to the districting of Uie Slate. It is only pr(jiier we sliould hear lliem and be heard also witli regard lo llie condition Ifie people may be in 111 the particular sections. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I agree with the gentleman in regard lo llie statement he has made. 1 think it is but fair tliat the absentees should be here and express their sentiments in regard. 1 ino\e thai as an anieiidmenl. The motion was seconded. Tile (Chairman: Is this a subsldnti' lop ihr section'.' Mr. (Jollins, of Cascade: .\o sir. no| ;i sniisliliile. it will comlini.' sections 12 and l.'t. (Heading' "rhere shall be in each (d the organized i-oiinlies in Moii tana a District Cioiirt, lor whicli al least one Judge shall hi' eli>cted by the peojile. wliose term of office shall he lour years. — except that the Disti'icl Judges first elected shall hold llieii' offices until the general election in the year 1892, or until their successors are duly eleided and tiiialified. The Chairman: Does the ijenllemaii li'oni Cascade idler that as an amendment lo si'clion 12'.' CONSTITL TIO.NAL CO.W K.N I'lOX 1889 22:S Mr. Collins, ol' Cascade: Socdons 1:2 and i'J coiiilmied. Mr. Dixcm ol' !?ilvor Bow: Tlic aiiH'Udim'iit ui the lorm proposed is, in my opinion, not as il should be, and to gel at. what the gentleman wants, il ho will let the sertion 12 stand as it is we fan then amend section 13, if he desires. -Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I will wdlidrnw il. Mr. Dixon of Silver How: the reason for that is, Mr. Chairman, that that would take awa.\- from the LcKislature entirely the power over the District, whereas this way it would not. Clerk then read section 13, as follows; "I iilil otlierwisi' providi'd by law said District shall be consliluted as loiinws: 1st District: l^ewis iV: lllarke Counly. ifnd District: Silver How County. 3rd District: Deer Lodye County. •ith District: .Missoula County. 5th District: (iailatiii County. 6th t)istrict: Jetterson County. Till District: Custer Couiify. 8th District: Beaverhead and Madison Counties. ytli District: Park and \ellowstone Counties. 10th District: (Cascade and Meagher Counties. 11th District: Fergus and Dawson Counties. 12lh L)istrict: Chofeau County." .Mr. hlickman, of Madison: 1 wish to offer an amendment. The Chairman: i'he gentleman from .Madison offers the following amendment. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Mr. Chairman. I offer an amendment. the (Uiairman: the C.lerk will read first the amendment offered by the gentleman irom Madison. The Clerk read as fnllows: ".^mend section 13 by striking out the word "and" in the 41 li line and inserting the words "9th District" and renumber the subsequent districts. 'I'he motion was seconded. The Chairman: The t^lerk will read the aniendinent off(Med by Itie gentleman from (Cascade. clerk read as follows: "Liitil otherwise provided by law each of the organized counties in the State shall constitute a separate .hidicial Dis- trict." The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The question is on the substitute offered by tlie gentleman from Cascade. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Mr. Chairman, 1 understand that upon this matter there is a diffen-nce of opinion among the Judiciary Committee. and that some of the members of the Committee are in favor of thissystem. 1 believe it would be of great advantage to the new State of Montana ti. make each County — each one of the present counties — and each county that will hereafter be organized — a separate judicial District. We do away entirely with the Probate Judge — abolish that par- ticular officer entirely — and the District Court of each County performs all the duties pertaining to that otfice. It simplifies matters: it mak(>s less courts, and it facilitates the transaction of business m the courts: in- stead of waiting term in and term out. to have lawsuits settled. Lhider this system, when courts are open from one end of the year to the other suits will be settled in a comparatively short time after they liave been commenced. J'he system, I believe, has been in existence in California since the date of their new Constitution, and I understand, from lawyers. that It works well. — that it is a great advantage not only to tli(> judiciary but to all I he penple. 1 believe that courts would transact I heir business in less time, with tenfold less expense, by having a high court in session in each County always. I understand that the judiciary committee feel the same v^ay, only that they think a few counties, one or two probably. have not business enough, nor population enough, to warrant il at present: but 1 believe the smallest county can well afford to stand the extra ex- pense, if there is any. in the saving it will be to the people. .Mr. tlartman of Gallatin: I am opposed to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cascade. 1 am aware of the fact that there are cer- tain counties in .Montana whose population and business will justify the establishment and maintenance of a District Court within those counties T^\ PHOCKEDINGS AIND DKBATKS aloni'. I am also aware that tlioro are a numl)or, and a coiiskiei-aljli' niini ber III' the counties in (his 'i'erltory wheriMn (he Ijusiriess woulil nut lie siittirient to justify (he paymeii( and manitenance of one l)isti'ic( (Jouii. ^iovv, I presume that the different dclagates here, represent iiif,^ tliese ilif lereni districts, are better posted as to the needs and recjuircnicnts of the sexi'j'ai dis(ric(s and counties that they reijresent than I am, hut as one nf till' representatives from Gallatin county to which the judiciary commil- tec have assigned one judge, i desire to enter my protest at^ this time. i know that one live District Court Judge, assignee] to the counties of Parli. (iailaliii and Madison, even if all Ihe Probate jurisdictmn has been conferred Ujioii tlie District Courts, can transact every bit of the business by holdiuK four (erms a year m tliose counties, and then have five months m I lie year lor recreation. .\iiw. it is (rue, i( has been argued, and will lie urged ujiiiii Ibis lloor. Ilial by Ihe aholition of the Pmbate courts you ha\e conlributed (o (he salary of the District Gour( Judge the fees and emdiiimenis which have heretofore gone (o the l-'robate Judge and his (JlerU. That is true, i admit it, and iliat (hereby, so i( is said, (his will redui'e (be pay that you will have lo maUe to (he District Judge (o a minimum. 1 am willing' to admit lliat. Hut here is the prnposition. if one man can do (he worlv and dn it wi'll. in justice (o himseir. and in justice (o the people of the tliree.coundes. is i( not (he heigh( of alistii'ddy and folly for us to say tha( there shall be (hree men (o do that work/ iNow. 1 am not here posing as a parsimonious ecoiiomis( or any(hing ol the kind; but I do say tha( when one man can do (lie w«rk of (hree coun- ties, and do it well, that we are not treating (he people of (his S(ate right by paying three men to do it. Now, as (o (he o(her Districts of the Tern- lory, 1 confess 1 am not so well posted on the business of them as upon these three; but, as for the three dis(ric(s (o which I have referred, 1 do sincerely enter a protest to this syslem, and hope tha( there will be a subsdtide proposed, at some time during the course of (he proceedings, which will make less districts here. Give Lewis and Clarke County a district. I am informed by men who are accpiainted widi the business here that they are entitled to it, and it is only a question of a short time when (hey will need more. Silver Bow is in the same condition. Deer Lodge is, 1 am informed, in the same condition. Take (he coundes East of here, — many of the smaller ones, — and T do not believe that the people require it, — and while 1 do say that (his arrangement is a good one where- by the work of the Probate (Jourls is transferred (o the Disirict Courts, and the jiis(.rict Judge receives the emolumenls of the Probale court, yet why should we contribute that money (owards the payment nf three men when one will do just as well? i am opposed to the amendment. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: .Mr. Chairman, the gentleman must remem- ber that these small counties have not ye( passed into a state of mocuous desuetude; (bey are yet expanding; they are growing; and while I would join him heartily in his sentiment, if we were cutting swaddling clothes for an infant, why, I would say cut it down (o (he inmimum — but we are no(; (hese counties are growing, and we e.xpect (hem to grow amazingly more rapidly. We are not making this constitution for liltle Cus(er and little Galladn coundes as they are today. Why, as soon as we have en- tered as a State, people will come from all over the country here, and it will be necessary to proviite for a much more extensive system of litiga- tion (han we have today. Now. if I believe (hat these counties would remain as (hey are today, I would say "buncdi them up," a dozen (ogi'(her, as you do herrings, and dispose of them by the dozen. But why not go m now .and provide a syslem that is matureil. so (hat when (he population comes we wilt be ready (o meet (hem? I tliiiik (be iiroposidon a good one. I fnvoreil il m (be committee and I fasnr i( here. .\lr. Ilarlmaii. nf (iailalm: 1 dn imt wish In ]iii|iiise iipiHi the comen- doii. but I wish til answer that arguiiienl. I belie\e in this coiuendon providing for present conditions, and the providing an expansixe syslem here of judiciary that may be expanded lo suit the developmeiUs of this counlrx'. 1 dn not want to see flic de\elO|)nienl of the country retarded, I want to be up to (he times, but I say il is a inis(ake, and a serious mis- lake, to lake a step (en years in advance of (he limes and endeavor (o suit. i( lo the iiresent conditions. Le( us make a sys(em dial will just suit (he |iresen(, condilioiis, and make it exiiansive so that it may dexelop and 111, the cnndidniis nf the couiitrv as it grows. CU.\>;Tlil TIO.NAL CO.W K.N I'lON 1889 225 Mr. Clark, ol Silver Bow: 1 understand it is provided in ttiis section. as well as the one t'oilownig, il that be adopted, tliat ttie Legislature may provide new districts, ttiat is. may give more Juilges to the several L)is- trifts as the occasion may reiiuire. Aow, 1 think the position taken by llie gentleman Ironi (iallatin is a good one. I belie\e that sucli counties as Uawson and Yellowstone and Park and Choteau and Fergus, and those outlving counties, that have very little judicial business as compared with Silver Bow and Lewis and Clarke, and these other large counties, are very well and very liberally provided lor by the report of the Committee on .iiuliciary. i\ow, I befieve m having good work and good services, and III giving good paj'. and m due time 1 propose to move an amendment with regard to that matter: but I am not in favor of imposing more dis- tricts on this State than is necessary to efficiently perform the business of the Territory or the State. Hence I believe that the plan adopted, as luitlined in the report of the Judiciary Committee, is a \ery fair and 'ilK'iai one. By tlie adoption of that report and tlie rejection of "this amendment we will save lour Districts to the Territory, which in the aggregate will amount to a good many thousamls of dollars. I wnuld rather take that money and |iay more to the Judges that are constantly employed. \\ c want efficient talent in all the Districts, and particularly in these large Districts where the Courts are behind from six months to a yeai' :.iid a half witli their business, — hence I am opposed to the amendment. Mr. \\ itter. of Beaverhead: 1 do not wish to urge uiion the committee the adoption (d' a motion or a substitute foe any part of this section that would seem to be a liardsliip on any County. 1 lia\e prepared an aiiiend- nienl relating to our own County, which, kf this amendinenl as offered by -Mr. Collins is rejected, 1 shall offer m belialf of Beaverhead. 1 believe, and 1 think 1 voice the sentiment of our people, so far as 1 can hear, that It is to the interests of Beaverhead County that it should be a separate District. It IS possible that the court would cost a few more dollars than it does at the present time, but at the same time it \M"iuld be a great con\enience. and give us speedy action relative to litigation. 1 do not know how other counties are situated relative to Justices of the Peace, ijut 111 our County we have only two tliat t can think of at the present tune that have served, or that we can get to serve, — only two townships that have Justices of the Peace. .\ll business relative to the courts has got to be brought to Ciillon before tlie Probate Court. .Now. if we have to go from t^eaverhead County fifty miles to Virginia City with e\ery little matter, in the absence of Justices 'if the Peace, it occurs to me that tlie mileage and the necessary I'xpense incurred would be heavier than the oifference between the .separate court system and the District Court sys- tem. I hope that .Madison and Beaverhead counties can be set apart in dis- tricts separately. .\s to the other counties. 1 would not interfere witli tlieir arrangements, or whatever plans they may have. .Mr. ttobinson, of Deer Lodge: J'his is a proposition that was pretty tlinroughly discussed in the Judiciary Committee, and it is true that there Were some niembei's who dissented Iroin the voice of the majority of that Committee, \\ hile, .Mr. Chairman, 1 was thoroughly impressed witli the idea of this system of District Courts. 1 was in that committee, and still am, in favor of limiting it to the actual necessities and requirements of -Montana. 1 cannot agree with my friend. Dr. Burleigh, and his suggestion would have a tendency to mislead this convention, — that is, in looking at the present situation of .Montana Territory with what it may be in future. -Now, 1 would suggest to this committee that this provides just exactly for that change of conditions. If ttie growtli of those small counties is suffi- cient in ttie future to warrant the change, and in increase in it is desired, as the gentleman has suggested, then this constitutional provision makes ample provision for that: so that whatever exigencies arise, whenever one of these counti(>s grows to magnitude enough In justify having a judge all the time, tliey cannot suffer long, but the next ensuing Legis- lature can make provision for that very thing. If. on the other hand, the conditions are reversel. and any county finds itself unequal to tht,' • ask of supporting a separate judicial district, and it is desired that more counties shall be attached to any one particular district, it makes provi- sion for that also. It makes provision in case this district should grow large enough that one judge could not do the business, that the Legisla- ture may give them two judges, and it is the same with Silver Bow county. Deer Lodge or any other county. So that this makes pro\isioii for all 226 I'llOCKEDIMiS AM) I )KHA I KS Ihosf (•ontiiificiicii's. Consequently we waiil. lo look al il as il luiw is uiKier llie presrnt t'oiiditioii iil alfaifs. Wliile it, may be well eiiougli as a inatler ol pride to iiialie a district of each county, 1 do not think it wise to do it. Another iji'ovision which should receive consideration is the salaries ot these judges. If we iiierease llie districts and make more judges than is necessary it burdens Itie Slate witli unnecessary exiiense. -Now', then, so far as Beaverhead County is concerned, I am pretty wi'll posted on that. 1 am m the halJit of attending court there about twice every year, — have been for some years, — the business of the district has been cleaned up in the district court in about two weeks; probably the last term they have run a little longer, and I am prepared to say that "while these District Court .Judges are invested wath Proliate jurisdiction and all that, on the other hand they are relieved of Supreme Court work. They have nothing to do but attend to tlie business of District .Judges. This bill provides that not less than four terms of the Disti'ict Court shall be held in each of these counties. That gives tiieiii ample time. It will give one Judge ample time to clean up all the business of those two counties, both ot the Probate Court and general jurisdiction business, and have, as some gentleman suggesled. six months of the year to spare. Then 1 say the work that would lie imposed upon the Judge of that District Court, em- bracing those two counties, or any other two couiities embraced in this proposition,' would not be one-half the work that the Judge of Lewis and Clarke County has lo do, nor would it be one-half of the work that the Judge of Deer Lodge County has to do, or the Judge of Silver Bow Dis- trict would have to do. Conseciuently, as it now is, the work imposed on any of those Judges in these districts, in my opinion, would not be one- half the work or one-third the work Ihat the Judges in these other counties, where there is only one county in the District, will have to do. While it would be much more justice, gentlpmen of the Cimimittee, lo divide Lewis & Clarke County, and give her two Judges, and Deer Lodge and Silver Bow, the same, and according to the work — to the magnitude of it — It would be much more m consonance with reason to give each of these three counties two judges. But the Judiciary Committee were satisfied to try the experiment of one Judge in this Couiily, one Judge in Deer Lodge County, and one Judge in Silver Bow County, notwithsland- ing the large amount of work that is to be done m those counties. The committee was satisfiel to try the experiment, and if we find when the next Legislature after this meets, that one Judge cannot do the work of each of these counties, we will give them two; and, on tlie other hand, if in these counties where they are i>ul together in one District one Judge cannot do the work of two counties, why then the Legislature can change it. There cannot be much injury done between now and the next session of the Legislature. So it seems to me that the proposition re- ported by the Judiciary Committee is the best one that can be devised, and I am opposed to these amendments. This thing was all done thor- oughly in the Committee; it was discussed at a great deal of length. The liroposition is to meet the present wants of the people of .Montana in such a way that lhi> system may be chang(^d to meet the changing wants of the people. We tiiiiik ourselves we have accomplished that. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, the gentleman culirely mis- apprehends the tenor of my remarks, — 1 am not shedding crocodile tears over the work of judges or anything of that kind. 1 say there is not a (•ounly w'here it is not economy, as soon as the ball is put in motjon, to iirovide for a Judge m each County rather than to k(M'p the counlies to- gether, and for tins reason; In the first place we avoid tlie salary, the compensation of the Proliate Judge; we avoid the comiiensation of his clerk; we avoid the expense of bringirtg the jurors from' an adjommi; ( ounly; of sending a distanrc In sulipneiia them; and I say lliere is not an expense today, where there are Ivvo counties cnmbiiied, tlial, taking the saving which results tnim having the court contmerl to ttii> county itself, that IS not ecoiKnin'. II is not necessary lo go into tlie future to com- prehend that. Take Dawson county and <'oniiect it with l-'ergiis county over here, and when you come to take into account the salary of the two Probale .ludg(^s, of their clerks. Ihe expense of running the court, subpoenas and mileage of witnesses and of jurors, why, 1 say it is a great eoonomy, and it is a great economy today, and it will be from the very moment the system goes into operalion. I do not care whelhiM- the .liidges have got to wni'k. Tliey lia\e III lake II Ilice. Willi lis burdens, and GO.N^TIil TIONAI. CO.W K.\ TIO.N 1889 227 should flo it. ^0 lar as my ynuiig and able Irieiid here from Gallatin county IS coni-eriied, 1 liave no doubt tie could do the business, if he were on the bench here, and have tune to spare, but there are some of us older, a little stiffer. more rheumatic, and cannot mo\f around very rapidly: and he will find after he lias discharged ttiat duty for ten or fifteen years llial lie will want a little rest. I think it is a matter of economy and will pay toda\. and so far as the committee aKreeing on the proposition is concerned, it was expressly siated ni committee that it was belter to go into conveutiiMi here and be referred to the Committee of the W hole, and then the districts that wanted to he divided could make their application, as IS being done here now. .Mr. Callawa.v. of Madison: .Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from Beaver- head has stated a proposition to tins coiniiiittee that perhaps ought to be noted. It seems that the judicial calendar, in that county, is so small they can only tind two men competent to be Justices of the Peace. If that be true, what is he going to do when it comes to make a District Judge".' I know, sir. from the motion made by one of my colleagues from .Madison, and secondeil by the other, that it is their desire to have Madison county a separate district, and 1 think they have conspired with my friend from Bea\erliead to carry it through. In the Committee of the Judiciary, I opposed this plan, because 1 believe a more economical and a safer one can be adopteil by the convention. One gentleman, 1 think the gentleman Irom Cascade, quoted California. Perhaps it would not be improper for me to say that whenever you quote the California Constitulion and California statutes you stand upon very ticklish ground, for the whole thing, the California Constitution and the California statutes. — the whole thing from beginning to end, is one conglomeration of nonsense. Now, sir, as the gentleman from Gallatin has well said, we are fixing our people a system whereby three men are I'lnployed to do certain wvirk that one man can do just as well. Vou take the counties of Madison and Beaverhead and any man who is fit to go upon the bench m that District can discharge all the duties that are required by law, both in the District and Probate Courts, and have half of the time left to go fishing and hunt- ing. We have fixed the salaries of the several District Judges m the Counties of Lewis and Clarke. Deer Lodge and Silver Bow, if I mistake not, at !S4.(.MJ0 a year. — in all of the other counties and districts the sum of S3.000 a year, except, 1 think, in Park and Yellowstone, m which the salaries are •"<3,5U0 a year. .Now, when you come to .Madison and Beaver- head, three thousand dollars. I ask you why you want the people of the counties ot .Madison and Beaverhead to double the salary when one man can take charge of the duties and perform them well. Then you speak again of California. Gentlemen of the Committee, let me say this to you, let some of these lawyers go to the California reports: the gentleman Irom Cascade says he understands the lawyers are satisfied with the system of California,—! say I have no doubt the lawyers are, — if they simply want to make business for themselves and inaugurate a system whereby they will be busy all the time they are on the right track. There are reported in the reports of the Stale of California, commencing from 1880 to 1887. more than ten thousand cases, taken to the Supreme Court of that State. There is not a State in the Liiion to compare with it in litigation: and 1 give you the philoso|ihy of it. gentlemen: it is because of the fact of the character of the gentlemen on I he District benches, as will probably be the case in .Montana, if you adopt this single county system. There will be many exceptions, no doubt, but when their de- cisions are rendered the people are so dissatisfied that their only remedy is to go to the Supreme Court, in the period from 18.50 to 1880. 30 years, under the old system of Districts .in California, going back to the first time when a lawsuit was a luxury, and passing to the present condition, we find that in 30 years tliere were about 10.000 cases at least in the Suiireiiie court, and in seven years, under the present system, there are more than ten thousand cases 1 believe there. It is that kind of dissatis- faction that the poor man has no chance against the rich if he feels himself aggrieved. -Now. when we come to this proposition, my own opinion is that we should inaugurate a system, when we commence to build out jurisprudence in -Montana, that the reports from the courts may be taken and embodied in book form, and they will be of such a character that all the States of the L nion would ha\e some respect for them. Go to these small counties. T'ake .Madison, and where is your material Ihere for a District Judge of ability and integrity? My friend who sits upon 22« I'UDCEKDIMiS AM) DKHAIKS my light. — my cnlloayuc— points to inn. Lcl nif say lliis in rpply to fiini. I liaxe no amljilion to iio a IJistrict Judge. 1 have npvor had any amiiition lor such a position: but suppose I wanted to go on the bene'h, 1 could attend to all ttn' business in that county in two months' time every year. V\ hy, gentlemen, in the County of Madison we have, had an average there lor years gone by of about a week's term of court. There is so little business thei-e, — and I refer lo a gentleman who sits within my hearing now to corroborate me, — that if all of the business there is in the county was put into the hands of one lawncr he would not have a respectable income; and yet you say to me that we must ha\e a District Judge whose salary shall be three thousand dollars a year, practically to do nothing. I will not vote for it. 1 will not vote for a system that the people, in order to settle questions of law, must go as in the State of California, in seven years, with more than 10,000 appeals to the Supreme Court. That Supreme Court is away behind its docket today. .Most of these cases of appeal there were criminal matters. The civil business is away behind, and they have their seven Judges of the Supreme Court: they have three commissif>ners in addition to that; the Supreme Court refers all matters to them, and they write the opinions for Ihe Supreme Court, and yet they are behind. We would do the very same thing if we in- augurate the California system here today. IVow. we can be more econom- ical. As some gentleman has well said, let us leave it to the Legislature. Jf a time shall come in Madison, — I hope it will, for where there are people in business there is always law, — that the time will come and very speedily when we can afford a District Judge, but as to the business there now it would not justify us at this time, t'or that reason, I am strenuously opposed to the motion of these gentlemen, my colleagues. These people do not know as much about these things as I do. and 1 would be recreant to my own trust, to those who sent me here, if 1 ilid not state these facts to this committee. Mr. Joy. of Park: I notice that the delegates from other counties are arranging their own districts to suit themselves. I think it is proper they should accord to the delegates from my County the same courtesy. 1 believe i know what Park county wants. I have talked this matter over with the people there iluring the past two years, and 1 know that Park county wants a district by itself, and f have what I consider a promise from the Judiciary Committee that it would be so reporti>d. I'hrough some mistake or misunderstanding il has not been so. If the Probate Judgeship is abolished, we want a resident Judge in Park County. In the first place it will be cheaper for Park county than any other system that can be named. The Probate Coui't this year in Park county cost the sum of $2,800, and if you pay the District Judge .?;i.iOO it will be but an increase of ipTOO. We will have a Clerk as W(> have now, — and I want lo say to the gentlemen that have made these stati'inents that the .ludge who handles the business of three or four counties, and can go fishing two- thirds of the time during the year that if they consolidate two or three counties of the size of Park, he will not have time to go fishing any part of the year. There is not a county east of here but has a year's business on the docket, and 1 say give us Judges enough for once and let us clean up the docket : let the litigants clean up their cases, dispose of them and get them off the docket. I hope the motion will prevail. So far as I am con- cei-ned. 1 am in favor of it but if it does not go through I ha\e an amend- ment here which 1 wish to offer on behalf of Park County. .\nd I suppose all the gentlemen here, if we want a district by ourselves, will give it to us. If we are willing to pay for it. .Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: T'here are a 'good many lliings connecled with the arguments adduced here this evening upon this question that I do not fully understand. .\ow, the genlleman from Park county, who has just taken his seat calculates Ihal they are not going to have any Clerk of Ihe Probate court there to do I'robale court business, and he figures ui> what they have paid lo their (;ierk as so much money lliey will have to spai'p. VVhy. the Clei'k of the Probate court will perform Ihe Probate court duties just the same as lie does now: and. until the legislature changes, just exactly tlie same fees. Then the gentleman from Beaverhead couni>- talks about laking witnesses over to Madison county. — witnesses, whal for? There is no necessity foi' those witnesses. 'In one case, upon the hearing of an injunction, witnesses came up here and made affidavits and filed them before the Judge when, under the jiraclice of Ihe courts here they could just as well have made the affidavits and not come up CO.NSL'in riUNAI, C.O.W i:.\ IIO.N I88i) 229 bi'lorc I III' riiurts as In liasc cumi'. Ami lu i-clalioii hi I he yi'iUli'iiiaii Iruin \ellii\vst(ini_' couiily, he wants a judicial systoin foe Uu: luture: lie wauU lor tlicse young counlics of Munlana a judicial i-obc made lo suit tlR'iu wlU'ii tliL'v are grown up. lie cenunds me very luueli of an old Inend of mine Major Watson, dnwii in .\e\ada, wiio put the harness of a great large horse upon a dinunutue jack and when 1 said. ".Major, Liial IS loo large a harness for I hat lifirse," he said "Aever mind, Knowles, that jack will accoinniodale himself to tliat harness in less than three days," --laughter;, — so it is with hnn, he is going to have these counties ac- commodate themseUes to the Judicial system instead of having the .Juiiicial syslem lixed up to accommodate the counties as they are now. .\(jw. 1 belieNi' 1 know something about judicial duties, and I agree with the ge!itleman from Ciallalin here that one Judge can do all ttie Dusmess ol the three counties he named, and have a good deal of time lo spare and 1 cannot comprehend the gentleman from Park as to why they want one judge m Park county. If one judge can perform all the duties of Park and (iallatm, — and I am sure Ihat unless the busi- ness there is a gri'at deal larger than I am aware of. — one judge can do it, because 1 know what a judge can do, — 1 have presided over the District courts of this Territory for eleven years and 1 think I know what a judge can do, and if a judge can perform all of those duties for both of those counties, why gi\c them a judge in each c rules, iiiilil all llic iiii-miIum-s liave spoken no meiuljer lias a right to sjjeak twiee. .Mr. Joy, id I'ark: If lliere is any objeclion tn in> spcakinj; 1 wdl I'elire, — I .just want to suggest llial the Kenlleman wlni last sjioke— I lie gentleman Irom iSilver Bow' — lias told us a great deal about wlial he Knows, and I wanted to susgest that tlo're may tie a tew things possibly thai he don't know, tir has roared and ranti'd a good deal about the gentleman Irom Park, ami lir aetually remiiulcd me about that story ot the liiin and the jaekass. A lion and a jaekass entered into a eombiiialion to go out and seareh for ijrey and the agreement was that the Hon was to post himself at the mouth of the eaiiyon, tlie jaekass was to go in around the mside and bray and make a loud noise and seare up the game, and the lion was to catch the game as it came out: and after the jackass had performed his part of the ccmtract he came back and found the lion de\ounng (he game. The jackass asked hun if he had not performed his contract thoniughly and W(dl, and the lion told him he had, and the jackass asked him If he had not brayed very loudly, and the lion told him he had and the jackass asked hiiii if he had not frightened uij a whole lot of game, and tlie lion said, "les, you frightened nearly everything in the country, and if 1 liad not known that you were a jaekass you w-ould have frightened me." (Laughter .Now, Mr. Chairman, I want to say here that tlie honorable gentleman from Silver Bow does not know as much about Mark county as hi^ tliinks he does, and I want to suggest here, at the start, that the argument he makes does not seem to have a bit of logic in It. Now, if 1 understand tins question, if the Probate (-ourt is abolished, there will be no Probate court fees drawn by any person. If the Probate court system is to be abolished and somebody is to keep right on drawing the i^robate Judge's fees and the Probate Clerk's salary. I am opiioseil to the whole thing, — but, as 1 understand it,'iiobody is to draw I he salary of the t-'rol.iale Judge or his Clerk. .Now. I am in fa\or of d for one other reasi>n. Mr. Hobmson of Deer l,iidgi>; Will llie gcnlleiiian allnw me to ask a question. — what is tlie laxable priqierty of Park countv ? -Mr. Joy. of Park: .\ Idlle o\er lliree million of dullars. .Mr. ttobmson, of Deer J-odge: Wliat is the poiHilalion? .Mr. Joy, of Park: I don t know but I know that last year she cist about 1,750 \oles. Park county cast more votes last year than did (iallalin, Yellowstone, Custer, Dawson, J-'ergus, Meagher or' tMioteau counlies. I want to say that Park county has been a county for a litlle moi-e tliaii two years. 1 have been residing there during that time, and long before it was made a county, and if 1 remember correctly there has been but four civil eases tried m that county for the lasl two years, and for the sole and only reason that we coulil not gel a judge lo sit there long enough to clean up the docket; and wlien the last term of the District court closed in that county last .\pril there were more cases on I he docket on the day of adjournmiMit than Ihere were when the court opened. .\iid 1 say. in view nf this state of facts, we need another Judge. We want a Judge to clean up our business there. A resident Judge,— and I Hunk we know as much about what we do want as thi' gentleman frnm Sihcr Bow knows. He claims lo know all about judicial matters, and what he has done and what he can do, but I still maintam he does not know as much about Parke county as he thinks he does, and 1 want lo suggest here, at 1 say we want a Judge tor our cininty and I tliink this convention will give il to us. .Mr. Luce, of (iallalin: I du iml desiri' to lake up iiinidi id' llie lime of the convention. This is one of I he iiiosi difficult subjects that came before the Judiciary Conimittee, and elicited* a great deal of discussion: and unless tills convenlion shall take a different course from what our Committee did. I don't know that we will evei' be able lo settle il e.xeept by letting eacli delegation have just such courts as they wish; in other words, if the delegation from each county w'ants one .lodge I suppose they will have lo liave it. Now, 1 started out w-jth the idea that (iallalin county might be attached to Park. I found a gentleman Inuii Yellowstone who CU.NSriri IIONAl. CO.WKMIO.N 1889 231 wauled that cnunty to Ijc altnclicd to Paik. and I did not tmd aiiyljody from Park who was yoaiiiin;^ to lie joini'il to (iailatui. Coiisciiui'idly, 1 niailc up ni> niuid that wr liad licttiT put Park and 'iollowstonc uito oai' Dislnid. Ilii'u I ri'aidii'd out lor a respcclatilc county (o l)c jouii'd with t-allatui. and laid Mtdfnil han same hack to the conven- tion, with the request that the Committee be allowed in sit again. The l^resident: If there be no obji'ction, the ic|iort. will be receivni and Ihe Committee will be allowed t^i sit aKam. Mr. Carpenter of liCWis and Clarke: The Committee of tlie Whole have also under consideration three propositions in relation to the ri'porl of the standing Committee on Labor, one in relation to Chinese labor, one in relation lo discharged employees, and one in relation to the imiiortation of contract lalior, and ha\e directed me to r(!port the same liack with the recommendation that they he stricken from the file. A member: 1 move that the report of the Committee he adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Carpi'iit(>r, of Lewis and Clarke: The Committee has also had under consideration proposition Mo. 2, the proposed article on labor, and the Chairman asks permission to make a report tomorrow morning. The l^resident: If there be no objection, the Chairman will be allowed lurther time in which to make his report on proposition No. 2. .Mr. Craven, of Lewis and Clarke: I move you, .Mr, President, that when the convention adjourn it adjourn to meet at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. T'he motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared lost. jMr. Collins, of Cascade: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. Motion seconded. 'I'he Chair put the motion, and the same was declared carried and Ihe convention stood adjourned until Tuesday, .July 2:Jrd, 1889. 10 a. in. FIFTEKXTH D.\Y. Tuesday, July 23i-d, 1889. Tlie coin'eiilion was called to order by the President at 10 a. m. Clerk called the roll. .Mr. Buford, of .Madison: .Mr. President. Judge Luce being sick this morning I ask that he be excused. The President: If there be no objection the g(nilleinan will be excused. The Chajilain offered prayer. The Clerk read the Journal of the litti day. The President: The Chair desires lo stale that tliere is a message from the President of the American Sabbath Union, — if there be no objec- tion it will be read. Mr. Callaway of Madison: 1 would like to inqair(> if thai coinmnnica- tion is from citizens of the Territory of Montana? The President: it is nol. .Mr. Callaway, of Madison: ThcMi I olijecl lo Ihe I'eadiim of Ihe com- iiuimcalion. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. President I move thai it he lelerred lo the Oimmillee on Education to rejjort hack. .Molion seconded. .Mr. Katon of Park: I understand that we are undi'r the regular order (if business which provides for the reading and presentation of petitions and memorials. I sujipose this is in Ihe nature of a petition and an order providing for the suspension of the rules would he necessary to do any- thing else but to I'ead this pelilion. I make thai pli*ions and memorials stiall he confined to citizens of Montana Territory. The CJiair undi'i'stands Ihal Ibis is Ihe general feeling in ret;ard to this matter, and lienci' the Chair is of Ihe opinion that these iielilimis, memorials and re- monstrances should he confined lo those coming directly from peojilc' of (his Territory, unless tin' conxenlion lakes a (litlerent mi'w. Ihe Chair GONSTITUTIONAI. CO.NVKlNTlU.N 1889 233 will so rule upon that question. Hence, Itie motion (il I lie tientlenuui liom i^ilver Bow is in oi'der if it is seconded. Tlie motion was seconded. The Chair staled the inotKin. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 would like {i\ hear the petition read loc nil'iirNialion. '\'hf I'residenI: I'liere is an oh.jection to tlie reading of the paper. Mr. Hicliards. of Silver Bow; 1 would like to ask how anyone can nitellit;entl>' recciiiimend that that communication be referred to a Com- iiiillee unless they know something- id' tlie nature of it. I might, with propriety, move to amend by reierring it to the Cooimitlee ou Irrfgation. I don't know the nature of it. 1 do not think this body is prepared to vote for a reference to any Committee unless they know its nature. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I think the members have a right to ask for Its reading for information. A member may object to its considera- tion bul 1 do not see how any member can object to its being read for information. The President iiisl I'licli'il llii^ tilerk to read (he message. 'J'he Clerk read as follows: Blue Mounlain Lake. .New 'iork. by the way of Saratoga. .July 22nd, 1889. To the President of the Constitutional Convention, Helena, .M. T.: The American Safiliath Union, whose office is at 23 Park How-, earn- estly recommend that luovision should be inserted in your new constitu- tion encouraging Sabbath observance. Perhaps the following form woul'l be acceptable to the Convoiition: — "No work or trade shall be carried on on the first day of the week, usually called .Sunday except such as may be strictly cliaritable or necessary, and the Legislature shall pass laws regulating and encouraging the observance id' the Holy Sabbath by all the people of the — " (interrupted). -Mi'. Hogan. of Silver Bow: I move yon, sir, that we dispense with I he furtlier reading of the communication. .Mr. Kickards of Silver Bow: 1 have heard enough of this reading lo warrant me to move an amendment. .Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow. I rise to a point of order. The question tias not been stated. The President: The question is upon the motion of (he gentleman Irom Silver Bow. that the further reading (d' the communication lie dis- fiensed with. -Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: I move as an amendment to the motion that It be referivd to the Committee on Kducation, that the telegram be laid indefinitely on the table. The motion was secondi^d. The Chair put the motion and the same was tieclared carried. Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis and Clarke, sent up a report. The report of the Committee on Miscellaneous provisions and Con- stilutional amendments will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Keport of the Committee on .Miscellaneous subjects, etc.: iMr. President: The CiOmmittee on Miscellaneous subjects and so forth, to whom was referred proiiosition No. 16 by Hammond relating to gambling respectfully report that the subject is one that should be reserved for the Legislative power; they have therefore rejected the proposition, with the recommendation that it do not pass. ^Signed L. H. HERSHi-'lLLl). Chaiiman of the Commiltee. The President: This report will take the usual course. The Clerk read as follows: Report of Committee on .Miscellaneous subjects, etc.: Hesolution .No. 10 by Callaway relating to free passes granted by corporations has been acted upon by the Committee who. in lieu thereof, have adopted a substitute which they have incorporated lu Iheir report to be presented at an early day. They, therefore, rr'cominend that i I'so- liilion -No. 10 he not adopted. July 22. 1889. Signed L, H. HLKSII KIKLI), Channiaii. The Clerk again read as follows: Report of the Con-iinittee on .Miscellaneous subjects; .Mr. Presidenl : The Committee on Miscellaneous suhjecls. etc.. to whom was committed the memorial from the .Methodist Episcopal Confer- ence concerning the establishment of a Sunday law and the [irohjbition 234 PHOCEEDIIVGS A.ND DKBATKS of tlie liquor trallie, respectfully report that they have given earnest consideration to the memorial cited, and have decided that the question is one which rightly helongs to the Legislative authority of the State; ana, in consequence, report adversely on the proposition, reconiiiiending' that It be not adopted. July 2-^iul 18K9. (Signed L. H. tlKHSHl'liiiLU, Chairman of the Committee. The President: Are there any reports of Select Committees? Mr. Middleton, of Custer: The report of your Select Committee, to whom was referred resolution No. 7 relating to the employment of a Sten- ographer, IS now ready. The Clerli read as follows: Report of Special Committee on Resolution No. 7, with substitute: Mr. President: Your Select Committee, to whom was referred resolu- tion No. 7, relating to the duties and compensation of the chief stenogra- pher, beg leave to report that they have liad the same under consideration and report the same back to the Convention with the attached substituti-, and recommend the adoption of the said substitute. (Signed) C. R. MIDDLETON. Chaiiinau. The following is the substitute referred to: Substituti' for resolution No. 7 offered by the Select CominitU.'e: RKSULVKD, That it shall be the duty of tfie Chief Stenographer to keep a full, true and com]jlele record of all the proceedings of this Con- stitutional Convention, and within sixty days after the adjiiuriiment there- of to file m the office of the Territorial Secretary a full, true and com- plete typewritten copy of all such proceedings properly paged and ar- ranged, and accompanied by the affidavit of such stenographer to thi' effect that such transcript is a correct copy of his stenograiihic notes of the proceedings of the Convention. That the compensation of the chief stenographer shall be ]-'ifteen dollars for each day that this convention shiSlI actually be in session, and III addition thereto the sum of twenty cents per folio for each folio of the proceedings transcribed as herein provided. The l-'resident: What is the pleasure of Ihc C.onvention? Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like lo ask the Chairinau of the Committee if that report is to include the debates of this convention, — the speeches made here? , Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I will say for the information of the gentle- man that the "proceedings of the convention,"' as 1 understand it, means the entire proceedings; all that occurs, either in cinivention, or in Com- mittee of the Whole; the debates, motions, resolutions, votes, Ac. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: J desire lo say. .Mr. President, llial 1 will oppose the resolution. The i-'resident: There is nothing before the Convention, .Mr. Bullard, of Jefferson: I move the adoption of the report. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Eaton, of Park: 1 rise for information. 1 woulii like to ask if the Substitute, as reported by Ihe Select Committee, is not substantially the same proposition that was voted down by this Convention some days a,2:o when the matter was last up? The Presidi'iit: The Clerk will read Ri'solutioii .No. 7, to gi\i' llu' gentleman thi> intormation he requires. The (;ierk reati Resolution ^o. 7 being (lolliii's resolution. The President: The (piestion is upon Ihe motion to adopt. Mr. Miditleton. of Custer: Mr. Presideiil, the Resolution. No, 7, Ilia! has .)usl been read, was not acted upon by the Convention thi' other da\, except by the action upon Ihe Siibstilule. which had been offered by it. and which was re.jected by this Convenlion, .Now, in substance, a portion of the Substitute iiroposeil by this Select Committee is similar lo the original resolulion as well as to the former substitute that was rejected. However, there is this distinction: it was considered in discussing the nialli'i' at that time by some of the members and justly so. that it would be absolutely impossibli> that lliere should be a transcriiit of these pro- ceedings made and iilaced in Ihe hands of the President wilhin tweiily- loui' hours alter Ihe shorthand notes were taken. This Resolution pro- vides thai that may be done willilii si\l,\- days. — provides Ilial a tull, tru(> and ciiniplele Iranscripl of lliosc shorthand notes shall be tiled with the CU.\>;Tm iio.NAi. cow i;.\ Lii).\ i^;s'.i 23."> iM't-retary nf Stalp. accoinpanit'cl by the al'lidaMt of llic sIciiiiKrapluT Ilia! It IS a triio and correct transcript from Ins shorthand notes of all of the in'oceedings of the Convention. .\o\v. so far as 1 am personally concerned. 1 would like to see this resolution adopted, for this reason: the stenogra- pher IS here and is going to take these notes; 1 have positive knowledge of tlie fact that he has been instructed by different individuals in Helena to take these notes saying that they would pay hiin at those rates as a private and individual enterprise. 1 submit that m my judgment, it is a matter that the State will want at some time and perhaps very soon, ami undoubtedly it will pnivide for the publication of these debates. 1 believe it is safe to say that Congress will pay for every dollar of this expense. 11 is something that certainly should be preserved. But two or three States in the Lnion failed to take the precaution to keep a com- plete record of their proceedings, and they regret it sincerely now. There is one slate — 1 think it was ivansas — where no provision was made by the Convention for taking or making any record of the proceedings, but a certain newspaper of sufficient enterprise in the city where the Convention was held, put their shorthand reporters in there, and took the proceedings in full, and 1 am informed that the State afterwards paid to that newspaper ¥I taxation of the property of Montana for State purposes sliould not ( xceed three mills. As 1 understand it, so far as territorial purposes are concerned. CU.NSTITL i'lO.NAI, CO.W K.N LIO.N ISH'.t ^37 it IS conluu'd witliiii one mill, aiiil we should mil e.xi'eed lor Slate purposes iliit'e mills. The way we aie gomj; on if we do not mind we will launch ourselves into a position where it will run to live or six nulls lor state piu'poses. 1 say, then, as this thing is useless, let us not put it into tlie power of the Legislature to swamp us in delit by publishing these reports. We are entailing an expense of probably $3,000 for transcribing them, wliH-h 1 regard as entirely useless, and I trust the Convention will take this view ol it. Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: i'lie KesolutKni now before tlie Conven- lioii IS specilically the same as occupied the Coii\ention of five years ago, though 1 thmk tliat tins will be less expensive than that. We are today, every minute and every liour, making a part of theiiistory of Montana. Perhaps generations to come and perhaps we ourselves would like to read that history again. To me it will be a matter of more than gratifica- tion If 1 can secure a copy of the resolutions and debates of the Conven- tion that you have the honor, .Mr. President, to preside over. In conver- sation with a gentleman a few days ago, a distinguished gentleman of this territory he asked me if 1 knew anything of the proceedings of the First Constitutional Convention held in .Montana more than twenty years ago, and told me he would give, or he could raise within on liour's time *j,(KiO if some authentic minutes of that con\ention could he found, simply as a matter of liistorical interest. T'he gentleman who has just taken his seat said the other day when this same subject was under consideration, or rather asked the queslion. who had read the minutes of the debates of the convention that framed the Federal Constitu- tion? And said that lie did not believe that one man in a million had. 1 consider, .Mr. President, that there is more than one man in this convention — more than one in seventy-five holds a copy of the minutes of James .Madison and .Mr. \aies of .New ^ork, taken from the debates of our leathers 102 years ago, and they have given to those who have read the history of that convention a very great amount of information. The \nowleifge that we have derived from those minutes is to us as valu- able as any other part of the liistory of the country. .\s the distin- guished gentleman from Ueer i^odge said the other day, it will be a mat- ter of the judicial interpretation of the views of the members of this convention, and as to the interpretation they would give to the Con- stitution they would be of the very greatest value to the court, which alterwards construe the provisions of this Constitution. Why, .Mr. Presi- dent, It is surprising to me that in this age of progress, when we are lay- ing the foundations for a great State — an empire within itself, contain- ing a grand, noble race of men and women, to say that we will not have enough of sense, of decency of manhood to preserve the history of our country! As one of the members of the Committee, Mr. President, 1 give it my most hearty support, and I hope that this resolution will pass. Ciomg a step fartlier let me say to the gentlemen of this Convention, that 1 do not believe that hair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. Hiekards;, and a division being called for the motion was declared lost by a vote of 13 in the affirmative to 39 in the negative. .Mr. Hiekards, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, 1 move to striki' out ■section 2, and insert in lieu thereof, the following: "The labor of con- victs shall not be let out by contract to any person, co-partnership, com- pany or corporation, but the Legislature shall, by law. jnovide for the working cif convicts for the benefit of the state." The motion wa.s seconded. The Cliair stated the motion. .Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis A Clarke called for the reading of section .No. _'. The Clerk read section 2. The Clerk read the Substitute offered by Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow. .Mr. Hiekards. of Silver How: It is manifest, that the sense o! Iliis Convention is to adopt some such provision as this. I believe that my substitute covers all that the original does, and goes a step fartln'r. I believe, if it is important, that we attempt at this time to say that convict labor shall not be farmed out. it is equally Important — and 1 think every irgument that can be adduced in fa\or of one will hold good in favor of •^'^•^ i'ROCKKDl.NOS AM) DKBAIKS the other — that tiie state shall provide lor the workmjj of convicts, and .any pcolit that may accrue therelroni, shall acci'iie to llie state. 1 do not tliink il IS worth wtnle to attempt to lake up \our tune in sliowmg you reasons wliy this should he done; 1 think they ace sell-apparent. 1 leave tile proposition to the Comention as 1 pri'scnl it, hoping that masmui'li as tjy your vole, ycm have expressi'd a desin' lo maet a pro\ ision of this Kind, that you will adopt my suhstitiite. Air, C.arpcnler, of Lewis & Clarke; I nftrr ihr Inlldwin;^ resolution. Ihe President; The gentleman from i^ewis A: Clarke \Uv. Carpenter,, offers Ihe following. Resolved tliat section 2 he referred to Comimlte:' on Lahor, with iiistructious to reiiorl a Sutjslitutc, jjrovidmg and specify- ing Ihe kinds of lahur at which convicts may wurk with Ihe least possible iiiterlereiiee with free labor, and in which they may be employed. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke; I inn\c ihc adoption of that reso- lution. J he motion was seconded. rile Chair stated the motion. ;\lr. Carpenter, of Lewis iS: Clarke; Air. Prcsulpul, I wani to say just a very few words, I think it is cruel and barbarous to allow convicts to aecay in prison without anything to do; after serving their term of iin- lirisonmi'iil ttii'y come out, not reformed, but worthless, human creatures, as a rule. 1 am opposed to their doing work that will interfere in any way, except Ihe sliglitest possible way, with our honest, hard working labormg men, tliere must be some kind of work that they can do, if we adopt this system at this time. There are few of thein comparatively, in the lerritory now compared with the laboring men, and there must be something that they can do to keep their bodies from decay while they are in prison, and to prepaid' them to be useful citizens when they come out ol [irison. If there Is a class of labor marked T)ut winch they may do for Ihe state, althougli it is very unproductive, then moral ri'form will, 10 a certain extent, take place: a reform tliat is certainly very desirable: and there will be a great expense saved lo tlie state in the future from the probable conduct of these convicts after their release from prison. If the system is adopted now, in the infancy of the state, labor will know all about it: labor will adapt itself to it; tlie laboring men will know that 111 a certain part of the state there is some stone quarry ttiat convicts are working, and the laboring men — and there is plenty of demand for labor 111 this territory— will adapt themselves to other conditions: will seek oiher avenues; and these convicts, whether they be digging in a quarry, or leM'iing a mountain, or excavating an equeduct, or providing some- thing for the benefit of the state, will not interfere perceptibly with any laboring men of the 'Territory. It seems to me, that the laboring men Inemselves, so far as they are ably represented in this convention, and the Committee on Labor particularly, who are supposed to know the wants and desires of what are termed lahoring men, will be abU' to specify here somelhing under the broad ffi^aven that these convicts may be permilted lo do for the benefit of their bodies and tlieir souls, and, at the same time, also for ttie benefit of the state. 'Therefore, 1 have offered that resolu- lioii, that" it be referred to that Committee, to select, if possible, some- Miiii- ihal Ihi^y may be pei'initted to do. Air. J. H. 'Toole, of Deer l^odge; .Mr. l^resident, it seems to mi' thai I am compelled again to come to the rescue of the resohilion 1 miroilnced yesterday, altliough I am somewhat reluctant to do so; and 1 am satisfied Ihal it IS the onl>- solution we can ari'ive at in relation to lliis matter. ;t only advanced one proposition, that of proliibiting Ihe conlractmg mil or coiix'ict lalior. It does not prohibit the Legislature at any lime, and doubt less the first Legislature, or the second one, or the Legislature at some immediate time in the future, at least, will prescribe some means for employing the convicts, and keeping them in a physically and menlall.\ sound conditifiii, if that is necessary. 'The gentleman from Silved How places himself in a peculiar condition. In the firsi place, he advocates tliat we shall not legislate upon tliis maUer: and in llie next instance, he introduces a resolution, saying that Ihe I^egislature shall iiroxide ways and means, and saying thai the Comenlion shall provide ways and means lor the employment of these convicts, lie contradicts himself. The reso- lution I introduced, I lielieve, leaxes the matter in an open, plain, straight- forwai'd way, and 1 am satisfied that iinli'ss we do something with this mailer, anil do il al once Ihal the people will be convinced lliat we are CO.NSTlTt riO-NAL CO.W K.\ IIO.N 1,S.S9 24:J KiTryuiaiiilcTiiif; so inui'li witli tins cnnveulioii thai we will get nolhin^ at all (1(1111'. I'lic purport at th(_^ i-csolution as I mtroiJuccd it. comes troni ttie folate of Illinois. Jt was oftereii there lour years ago ami earned by tile people of llie stale, and similar provisions have been made In the Constitutions of other states. It leaves the balance of the matter with tht; Legislature to decide as they may see best, and leaving it to them to say, I he manner jind kind and form of work the con\icts sliall be employed at. But. certainly, looking at the matter from a plain, common sense "stand- I)Oint, and admitting that the convicts should be employed, tlie Legislature • are the people who are to provide the manner m which they shall be employed. Ihis resolution leaves it to the Legislature. The con\entioii are not in favor of comict labor. The resolution that I introduced pro- iiibits that, and, it seems lo me, solves the whole problem. .Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis li Clarke: I entirely agree with the gentleman who has just taken Ins seal. It seems to me that the matter is in a proper form now, and the convention ought to abide by it. W'e do not Know what the slate may want to do with these prisoners in the future, lliey may want to build some road across these valleys or mountains; they may want to employ them m boring a tunnel through- these hills in order to let the water through, i'here are hundreds of ways in which Ihey may be used that could not be foreseen by this Committee: and I lliink It IS the part of wisdom and a conservative part, to stand by the lesolution as shown to be favored by a majority of the convention, and not refer it to any Cominittee. .Mr. .Mc.\dow. of Fergus: .Mr. l^resident, 1 believe that this is certainly a subject for legislation. .Now, sir, 1 do not believe that honest labor lear's competition, bou take an honest laboring man that proposes to make a man of himself, and a home for himself and his family, he lays by his earnings; he gets him a little home, and that home is found by the' tax- gatherer, and taxes fall heavily upon him. 'iou take the tramp labor that we have here as well as elsew-here, and 1 do not believe tliat he de- serves any consideration whatever. This man will tramp from place to place: he will get employment, and after working a few days, he takes his few dollars, calls for his time, and goes into some rum mill, and there wallows in whiskey until his money is gone and the saloon man casts him out, and he then goes on again and repeats the operation. Uii the other hand, in our penitentiaries the convicts are generally mm physi- cally strong, and to pen these people up inside of walls there where they brood over their imaginary w"rongs, they not only decay as the gentleman irom Lewis & Clarke says, in mind and body, but, sir, they become insane. many of them, and then they are sent to an asylum as a charge upon the state for tbeir life time. .Now, sir, I believe that the penitentiary should be made self-supporting. It can be done, and so far as competition is concerned, it comes into competition with no one but the tramp labor: that 1 do not believe deserves any consideration whatever. I do not be- lieve that there are any laboring men in this territory today that propose to live here and make their homes here but w'hat would be in favor ot making the penitentiary self-sustaining, so that they would not have to pay taxes for these people. 1 believe, sir. that the Legislature should have the full power to farm out Ihis labor so as to make the penitentiary self-sustaining. .Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: I would like to ask the gentleman a question, if it is not a fact that it is tramp labor which produces the con- victs of the country, .Mr. McAdow, of P'ergus: I think it is; I think they are the very men w-ho produce the convicts: but I do not propose to let these men become insane, and to make them a charge upon the state. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: iMr. President, when my friend ovei- there refers to tramp labor 1 do not exactly know what he means by the term. -■Vs a rule, my experience with tramps is that they do not work.' and I find that men that earn their living by the honest sweat of their brow are not tramps. 1 claim, furthermore, that there is no such thing as tramp labor. I say. sir. if a man is here and thrown out of employment, and goes to seek employment elsewhere and cannot get it. and is unable to pay his way and has to travel the best way he can, I say he is not a tramp, but that he is just as good as my friend who calls him a tramp, and deserves just as much consideration at your hands. .Now, sir. I claim the bill be- fore you does not interfere with the state. The state can give them anv :iri l'H()CKKl)l.\ndnieut hut 1 do not propose to adopt any measure wfiich shall pre\enl the Legislature from employing convicts, or liavmg lliem eiir l)loyed. because 1 ttiiiik it is an injury lo the convicts, and cruel to a great extenl. .Mr. Wilier, of Beaverhead; .\s I understand, Ihe question now is upon Ihe motion to refer tins matter to the Committee again. 1 am in- clined to think that it would be only a wasle of time to make such refer- ence, the Committee have discussed tfiese propositions, tliey ha\e been discussed m Committee ot the Whole, and now is a proper time to settle one mailer. I hope the motion will be jjut 'and lo.st so thai we can go on and discuss lliis inalter either lor or agamsl. The Chair put the question on the motion (d' the gentleman from Lewis cV Clarke i,Mr. Carpenter i, reterrmg the mailer to the Committee on i^abor and a vote being taken, the motion was declared lost. The l^resident: The question now recurs upon the amendnienl of- fered by the gentleman from Silver i-iow (Mr. HickardS;, as a Substitute, which was reait before the Convention. Mr. Kickards, of Silver Bow: -May I ask simply that that Substitute be read again, and I would like the Clerk lo read it slowly. There has nol been any disposition on my part to try to annul any part of the Reso- lution, for which Ibis Substitute has been offered, but simply to go, as 1 .said before, a step farther, and provide that the Legislature shall provide for the employment of convict labor. aiuJ that the profit shall accrue to the stale. The Clerk I'cad the Sid.istitule of Ifie genlleman from SiUei' Bow i,.Mr. jiicJiMi'dsj. the Chair [juI Ihe question on tlie motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow ii\lr. ttickardsj, moving the adoption of the said Substitute, and a division being called for, the Substitute was declared lost, by a voti; of ^0 111 Ihe aflirmative lo 39 in the negative. I'he President: The question now recurs upon the original proposi- tion. If there are no further amendments, Section i\o. 2 will be put upon its final passage. The ayes and noes will be entered on the journal. riie Clerk read Section 2 as follows: "It shall be unlawful for the Warden or other officer in authority, or other slate officers of any peni- lentiary or other reformatory institution in Ihe State of .VIonlana t(i let by conli'act to any person or persons, or corporations. Ihe labor of aii>' convicl confined wilhm said institution." The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Aiken, iiickford, Bra/.li'ton. Breen. i'.rnwne, Bufoid, uUllard. Burleigh. Burns, \..i.: Burns, .V. 1^'.: Burns. Edward: Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenler, Cauby. Chessman. Collins, Conrail. Cooper, CourtneV. Ci'aven, Dixon, Dyer, l-'ields, (laylord, (iibson, (iillelte, llartnian, Haskell. Hatch, Hickman. Hobson, Hogan, .Joy, Kanouse. Kennedy, Knowles. Loud, Magmnis, Marrion, Marshall, Mayger, Mitchell, .Mulli. Parberry, llamsdell, Heek, ftolwill, Sargent, Schmidt, Staploton, Toole, Jos. K.; Tooli", J. H.. Whitehill. Winston, Witti'r. Ml'. l'resident--57. Nays— McAdow, Mid- dleton, Kickards. Warren, Watson— .'i. .\bs(>nt- -Durf(>e. Kalon. (ioddard, liraves, Hammond, Hershfield, .loyes, Knippeiibei'L:. Knlns, l.ni'e. Myers. Uobinson, \\ ciisler — 115. The President declared Ihe motion lo adopi Seclion 2 as carried. CO.NSTllLTIO.NAL CD.W K.N ilU.N 1889 -''•') .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Door Loiige: I iiinxo |o iil'tor a now .-;oi-tii:)ii to bo calloLl :>ection 3. The I'rosident: The goiUlpniau I'roin Door Lodge Mr. Toolo , oilers n section to 130 numbered section 3, to be added to the Article on Labor. I'he Clerk read same as follows: "S Mr. Maginnis , and the same was declared carried. The President: We will proceed to the consideration of matters under I he head of unfinished business. Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: .Mr. President. I move that File .No. 1, embracing the Preamble and Bill of Rights, be made the special order lor tomorrow at eleven o'clock. The motion was seconded. The President: The motion is to make File No. 1 the special order for tomorrow at eleven o'clock: it will require a two-third vijjje to so order. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from -Madison uMr. Callaway . and the vote slood 29 in the affirmative to •") in the negative. .Mr. J. R. Toole of Door Lodge: I move we take a recess until two o'clock. The President: The question is not disposed of yet. Tlie motion to make this a special order having failed to receive two-thirds of the votes of those present, is declared lost. There is a motion before the house, which has been seconded, to take a recess until two o'clock. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge I -Mr. i'oole , to take a recess until two o'clock, and the vote boin.i:. taken, the same was declared carried. 'i'he Convention took a recess until two P. M. -'it; I'HOCEKDI.NCiS AM) DEBATES AHitiiiioh Session. Tuesday, July l'3i'i|. 1X89. I'ho Coineiition was called to order by llic Presuleiil al two P. M. The Clerk called the roll. i'he l^resident: \\ hen the Convention took a recess it was engaged m the consideration of unlinished business. That is now the order of busi- ness. General File iSo. 1 will take precedence in the order of business, il is now before the Convention for consideration. -Mr. Callaway, of Madison: ftlr. i^resident, I think that (i.eneral Kile and Report of the Committee on Education was made the special order for two o'clock today. The President: Two o'clock on Wdnesday. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: 1 would ask unanimous consent thai tin' Committee on Public Lands, &c., be allowed to make its report. The President: If there be no objection, the repoi't of the Chairman of the Committee on f^ublic Lands will be received and read. The C'lei'K read as follows: "'Mr. l^resident. the Committee on Boun- daries, Public Lands and Homestead Exemptions have had under consid- eration the subjects of the control and ihsposition of the public lands, and of homestead exemptions, and have instructed me to report the fol- lowing articles, and recommend that the same be incor|)0rated in. and lorm a part of the Constitution. Public Lands. Article , Section i. None of the lands t^ranted by Congress to the State of .^lontana, for the support of common schools, for the establishment and maintenance of a school of mines, state normal schools, agricultural colleges, a state reform school' and a deaf and dumb asylum, shall be sold, granted or disposed of in any manner: but the same may be leased under such regulations as the Legislative .\ssembly may provide by law not inconsistent with the laws of Congress in force at the time same may be leased. Section -'. The moneys, profits, and proceeds arising from (he pulilic lands shall be used and devoted exclusively for educational purposes, and it shall be the duty of the Legislative .Vssenihly to enforce tins provision by appropriate legislation. Article Elxemplions. Section I. 'I'he Legislati\e Assembly shall provide liberal exemption laws. Respectfully submilted, C.VLLAW.AY, Chairman." The President: If there be no objeclion. this report will take the usual course, and be referred to the Committee on Printing, with orders that it be printed and placed on the General l-'ile. The convention will now proceed to the consideration of Proposition No. 1 on f^reamble and Bill of Rights. The Clerk will proceed to read it. I'he Clerk read the Preamble, as follows: "We, the people of Mon- tana, grateful to .Vlmighty God for the blessings of liberty, in order to secui'e the advantages of a State government, do, in accordance with Ihe lirovisions of the Enabling .\ct of Congress, appro\ed the 22nd day of i<'ebruary, A. D. 18S9, ordain and establish this Constitution." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 move the adoption of the l^reamble. The motion was seconded. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow": Mr. President, as the Substilute for Ihe Preamble has not been disposed of, it is before the House. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: .Mr. President. 1 iindiTsland IIimI siibsldwie was disposed of and rejected. Mr. Callimay. of .Madison: 1 Ihink Ihat the genllemun from Silver Liow (Mr. Warren I is correct, that Ihe subslitule offered by the genlleinan from Sliver Bow (Mr. iJixonj was not disposed of. '.riial xole was ne\er .■iiinounced, if 1 remember the fact. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, if I recidlect right, 1 asked on yesterday tliat Ihe vote might be aniioiiiu^ed — the vote of the day he- lore — and if 1 am correct it was held tliat the Substitute was disposeil ol by the call of the Hmise on the adjouninient. The i-'resident: The Chair decided that there was no decisinii of (hat f]Ues(ion. The (Thair did not announce the vote, because there were nienv hers iiresent who did not vote. According [o the rules, everyone is obliged , to vote, unless excused by the convention: so that the matter is not yet disposed of, and may he brought up. It was taken from before Ihe con- veiiliim: It ma\- lie mti'odiiced anew. CO.NS'iTrUTIUNAl. C.o.W E.NTIUN 1S,S9 247 .Mr. Uixon, of Silver Bow; Mr. President, il it is in order, 1 desire to intiodure tlial Substitute now. rill' I'resideut: It is m order. itie Clcrlv read ttie Sutjstilute ot Itie gentleman fmni Silver Bow ,Mv. Dixon as lollows: Strike out all of Preamble and insei'l instead, "We, the people of .Montana, do ordain and establisti this Constitution." I'lie motion was seconded. The President stated the motion. .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: .Mr. President, the gentlemen who are in lavor of tins Suhstitute have been represented as opposed to religion, as being infidels and atheists, and everything of that kind. I wish to say that a great many of llieni are not; but that they do not believe that the question of religion should be mixed up in any way, shape or manner or lorm with government. The fact that religion has been mixed up witti government in years past lias wrought much harm to liunianity; wars have been waged, and men in Ibeir wrath ha\ e proelaimed a disbelief in all religions. The persecutions of the Christians in Home was on account ot (he Pagan religion of Koine being considered part of the government, file war that was waged in the tinted .Netherlands for eighty years was on account of religion: the Thirty \ears War of Europe was on account of religion: cities were destroyed, the pi>ople were murdered and slaught- ered in the most inhuman manner. It has been represented that the people of J-rance at the time of the Revolution were a most irreligious people. The fact is that they were taught by their churches that they must submit to the powers that be, and when they rose up in their might, they said, if this is religion, that we must submit to these powers that uestroy us, that rob us of our substance, that make us beggars upon thi' highway, that feed us upon black bread then away with all religion, away with your Bible. Today in Russia, because religion is a part of the (iov eminent, we have .Nihilists, men that rise up and say "down with religion. ' 111 the old anti-slaveiy days m this country, when men said that slavery was according to the Word of God, the old Abolitionists said, let us then have an anti-slavery God: away with your Bible; away with all religion that leaches that s'avcry is a divine institution. .\nd so. if we put this mailer in this Preambh'. it is m obedience to a religious sentiment, a sentiment that absorbs I he human mind, that will cause men to forsake country and family lies and adhere to their religious convictions. l'"or my part, i would like to eliminati> every allusion to religion in a civil gov- ernment. Then there is another matter in the Preamble, and that is that we are ordaining this Constitution in accordance with an .\ct of Congress. Some gentlemen seem to have no objection to that. I say we are ordaining this Constitution by virtue of the sovereign power reposed in us as a people entitled to self-government, a people who are entitled to originate their own government, and to establish it upon the basi^ that it sliall he a government for the [leople and by the people. .\nd it is for these reasons that we are opposed to this Preamble. We are not irreligionlsts: I know that there are men here supporting the measure who are, but the majority of those in this house who are opposed to this Preamble are not of that class. I believe in churches. I support churches. I pay monev to build churches, and am in favor of the religionists of the country propagating the Gospel. But 1 am opposed to the mixing up in public affairs in any way of religion. I look only to the past. I know what it has done in the past, and 1 know there are people today all over this land whose souls are so wrapped up in the subject of religion that they think Ihev must have it in every institution of the country. We have had lo eliminate it from the public .schools of the country. If it should be in the Constitution of this land, then put it into the public schools; put it in all of vour institutions; do not say you have got it into the Conslitu- tion of vour country, and yet you exclude it from the schools; let us be consistent. It IS for this reason that I am opposed to that Preamble, and hope the substitute of the gentleman from Silver Bow county (Mr. Dixon will prevail. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. President, I do not understand why It IS the gentlemen are so sensitive about that clause in the Preamble, which says that this is done in accordance with the .-Vet of Congress. .Now, there is "nothing there that renounces in any way the sovereignty of the people. There is no gentleman upon this floor who will go farther upon that question, or upon the question of State's Rights than 1 will, but there is nothing here which says that we do this by the grace of Congress. ■J'lS l'H()CKKlJl.\(_iS A.NO DEBATES 01- by virtue of the Act ot Congress. Tliis language was expressly used by direction of tlie Comniitlee that reported this Preamble. But will any- tiody say we do not create this Constitution in accordance with this Act, inserting into the very ordinance and into the article itself, certain pro- visions which this .\ct of Congress, under which this convention is con- ^ened, declares shall be inserted in it? We are simply saying that we dn this in accordance with that Act of Congress, which declaration will ever remain as a ready record, by which any citizen of the state of .Montana or elsewhere may be able to turn to the Act of Congress under which tliw Convention was convened. I do not think that there is any di'parture jrom established principles with reference to sovereignty updii this ques- tion by inserting this in the Preamble. And now, a word, .Mr. President, with reference to the main proposition, which seems to agitate so many of the members of this Convention. To every one of them. 1 accord tin- perfect right to vote for or against this proposition as his conscience may dictate. So far as 1 am concerned, I see nothing in the Preamble that is calculated to alarm anybody, whatever his religious convictions may be. Jt is simply a declaration, the barest mention in the most modest sort of a way of the name of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe. It reminds me \ery much, sir, and my vote, I believe, shall be controlled very much in accordance with what 1 learned with reference to a statement of a dis- tinguished gentleman in the city of Minneapolis some years ago. There lived a noted mfidel. tie had been called on time and again by the religious population of the community to assist in the building of some uislitutKm for religious purposes. He had declined as many times, until filially. 111 order to appease the public sentiment, he proceeded to build !i church complete in every detail, and turned it oier to the congregation. .V meeting was held in it. tie was invited to be present, and he came: and the minister, who was then presiding, somewhat on the revival order, arose and asked if there was anybody there that believed in God to stand up. tic looked around, and there was not a soul that stood up. Finally he said, if there is anybody here that wants to go to Heaven, let him stand up. and nobody stood up: and as a sort of last appeal he said, if there is a friend of Jesus m this house let him stand up. The old infidel looked around, he saw that nobody was getting up, and finally he gnl up himself and said, "Mr. Parson, you can put me down as a friend of Jesus, or any other man that ain't got any more friends than Jesus has." Laughter and applause.^ -Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: It may indeed seem presumpluous that 1 should attempt to answer my colleague and neighbor. Judge Knowles. I for one am sorry that tnis issue has been raised, but I call upon every gentleman upon this floor to witness that the "religious cranks," as we are sometimes sneeringly called, did not raise it. Now, I for one never gave the matter of the recognition of the Uiety in this Preamble a mo- ment's thought, until it w^as laid upon my table from our Committee: and I must say that the modest, simple recognition therein contained seemed to me so pre-eminently proper and right that I never thought that anyone would rise to his feet and call in question the appropriateness of the act. I\ow, this question and this false alarm has been raised of a union of state and religion. It would seem ridiculous, sir. if it was not said in such seriousness. I say without fear of contradiction that 1 would impeach (he intelligence of this body if 1 presumed for one moment thai you would attempt to unite religion and state, or, if you please, church and stale. The idea is ridiculous, i.ow, my learned friend unqnestionahly knows a good deal about law, and a great, deal about history, hut I submit I hat he- knows very little about religion 'laughter), when he stands on this flooi- and says that a simple recognition of the Diety is religion. Why. sir, every man, speaking in a broad sense, recognizes a Supreme Being, The .Nomadic sub.ject recognizes the Great Spirit. Is he a religious savage? Nay, 1 have heard some men, and I am bound to say some on this floor, recognize the Diety, and call upon him, though in a very irreligious man- ner. Now, Mr. President, it does seem to me that it is time to call a halt when men stand on this floor and raise such false alarms as this. I want to remind judge Knowles. and all others who may hold to such opinions as expressed hy him — for he gave expression here last week lo the si'iiti- ment that if we retained the few obnoxious wm'ds that were there, man.\ of our citizens all (i\ei' this lerritory wmild lie nf fended — 1 wani to remind him that the old Constitution of ISSi contained this same recognition. and thi' people passed upon it favorably. If there was any complaint, it CUNSTITUTKhNAL CO.NVK.NTION 18«9 2'i9 was a vc'i-y weak diH' ami I iimi-c licard il. I also want In ri'iniiid luiii that one ol IIh' lirst acts of this body was to call eat'li nicinbei- to tiis t(H'l and lake the oatli of office, as proscribed by law. Did any one rise Id Ills feet, and object and say that this iiiight be a recognition of Deity, or id' Ciod, ami offend our constituency? ,\ow, to be consistent, why the oath of ofticeV \\ hy any oath in our courts of justice? Is the term the oath is clothed in "so help me God," a union of religion and state? I'heii, sir, if il is. Judge Knowles has been from time almost immemor- ial for 1 liavi^ heard (d liini almost since Montana has been .Montana, guilty of trying to make a union of church and state. Do you say "foolishness' ? ies, 1 ailmil it, but that is the line of argunieiif that has been advaiii'ed on this floor. .Now, since this question has been raised. I .say all honor to this Committee, having before tln'in the experience; and the Constitutions of other stales, tliat they thought il wise and proper, to incorporate tins simple recognition of God in tliis Preamble. 1 have examined the Preambles of all of the States of the Union, and I hold in my hand a memorandum; it is loo lengthy to read, unless some one calls for it; and 1 make the statement that twenty-seven of our states have this recognition (d' Deity m their preambles, and some of them have gone farther than this, and recognized the Lord Jesus Christ. iNow, sirs, these Iwenty-seven states commenced back as far as the history of this Nation. In 1776, Connecticut recognized Almighty God in her preamble, and as late as 1879, and in the Constitution of Connecticut in 1818. we see this same recognition of God. ;\ow, sirs, in conclusion 1 would not take U]) one moment of your tune if this issue had not been raised; but it has been raised, and every one must stand in my iilace and ask this body, "let us, grateful to Almighty God." if you jdease, that it lias pleaseij our constituency to repose so much confidence in our integrity and ability to frame a (constitution for this grand and glorious incoming State of .Mon- tana, rise to the importance of the occasion, and I predict that ninety- five per cent of our constituency within the bounds of Montana will say of us on this proposition alone, "well done." (Applause.' Mr. Middleton of Custer: .Mr. President 1 move you that the pre- vious question be now called for. The motion was seconded. Tlie Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer, (Mr. Middleton. and a ^ote being taken the same was declareil carried. The President: The (Question is upon the adoption of the Substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, (.Mr. Dixon '. The tihair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, (.Mr. Dixon), and a division being called for, the Substitute was declared lost, by a vote of 23 in the affirmative to 44 in the negative. Mr. Callaway of .Madison: Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer a Substitute for the Preamble. .Mr. .Magmnis of Lewis ^: Clarke; Mr. i^resident, 1 believe it is the rule that when the previous question has ben moved and seconded no iurtlier amendments are m order. I now move the previous question again on the question. The motion was secomled. Mr. Collins of Cascade; The amendment of the gentleman from Madi- son was presented first, 1 believe. The President: it was not seconded; -if it was it would be in order. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President. I withdraw my mo- tion, as a matter of courtesy. I wish to say, how-ever, that all these motions seem to be in the nature of dilatory; but in order that no gentle- man shall feel himself aggrieved or cut off, 1 withdraw the motion. The l^resident: The Clerk will read the amendment offeri'd by the gentleman from .Madison. The Clerk read as follows: Preamble offered by Callaway; "We, the people of :Montana, in order to form a more perfect government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, pro- mote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to our- selves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the State of .Montana.' Mr. Callaway of .Madison: I move ttie adoption of the Substitute. The motion was seconded. 'J he Chair stated the motion. LTjO I'KOCKKDI.NGS \.\li I )KBA IKS Air. .\Ii(lilli'liiii. ol Ciislcr: Mr. President, I ri.se to a poiiil (it ludi'i. 1 iiiulerslaiiil tlie I'ulc Ui Ije, tlial wlien the pre\ious question has Ihm-ii |iul, the motion on tlie question called tor and put. and the vote is in Ihe al tirinatix e, thai it slops all debate and further amendments. The i^resident : I'he amendment was ottei'cd tietore the nicition lor till' previous ipiestion was moved. .Mr. iMiddletoii ot Custer; llie previous question as piil dii my mo- tion would ha\e Ihe (dteet to bring the convention to a \iite ui)on the amendments Iheii pending, and immediately thereupon a vole upon the mam question, according to Rule 13. The President: The point of order of the gentleman from Custer is well lalection I, as follows: Article 1. A declaration of the Rights of the People of the State of .Montana. Section 1. That all i)olitical power IS ^ ested m and derived from the people; that all government of right originati'S with Ihe people, is founded upon their will only, and is mstituted solely for the good of the whole. There being no amendments to Section 1, the Clerk read Section 2, as follows: section 2. That the people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing Ibeinselves, as a free sovereign and indepen- dent state, and to alter and abolish their constitution and form of govern- ment whenever they may deem it necessary to their safety and happiness, provided such change be not repugnant to thif constitution of the Luited States. There being no ameiidements to section 2, the Clerk read section 3. as follows: Section 3. That ail persons are born equally free, and have certain natural, essential, and inalienatile rights, among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and detending tlieir lives and liberties: that of acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and (d' seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness in all lawful ways. I'liere being no amendments to section 3, the Clerk read section i, as follows: Section b. That the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worsliip, without discrimination, shall forever hereafter be guaranteed, and no person shall be denied any civil or political rights, privileges or capacity, on account of his opinions concerning religion, but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dis- pense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness ny bigamous or polygamous marriage, or otherwise, or justify practices inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the State, or opposed to the civil authority thereof, or of the United Slates. No person shall be re- quired to attend or support any ministry, or place of worship, religious sect or denomination, against his consent; niu' shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomiation or mode of worship. There being no amendments to section i, the Clerk read section 5, as follows: Section 5. That all elections shall be free aiu( open: and no power, ci\il or military siiall al any lime interfere to pre\enl Ihe free exercise td' the right of suffrage. Thei'e being no amendments to section 5, the Clerk read section l!, as follows: Section (i. That Courts of Justice shall be open to e\ery person, and a s[)i'eiiy remi.'dy afforded for every injury of person, prop(>rty, or character; and that right and justice shall be administered without sale, denial or ifelay. There being no amendments to section (i, the Clerii read section 7 as follows: Section 7. That the peo|ile shall be s(>cure in their persons, pajiers, homes, and eftects, from unreasonable searches and seizure; and no warrant to searcli any place or si'ize any person or thing, shall is- sue without describing the place to be searched, or Ihe persini or thing to be seized, as near as may be, nor without probable cause. sup|iorted by oath or affirmation, reduced to writing. 'I'here being no amendments to section 7, llie Clerk read section >S as follows: Se(dion «. Criminal offenses of which justices courts and mu- nicipal and other courts interior to the disliid courts havi' jurisdiction. shall be prosecuted by complaint. I'hei'e lirMllg llii ailiendmeid to seclKMi S, tile Cli'Ck read seclioil '.) as CO.VSrill IIO.NAL (;().\\K.MI(».\ 1889 251 follows: Sei-tion 9. Cniiimal ollViifcs ol which thi^ disti'it-l t-ourts havo jurisdiction shall be proset-uli'd by inlorination alter examination and i-onviction by a magistrate, or by leave of the court, or by indictment, without such examination or coiumilinent or without such leave of court. .\ .iriaild jury shall cosist of seven persons of whom five must concur to !ind an indictment. A grand jury shall only be drawn and summoned whi-n (he district .judge shall in his iliscretion consider it necessary, and sliall so oriler. .Mr. Joyes of Jefferson sent up an amendment, which the Clerk read as follows: .Motions to amend sections 8 and 9. article I. by substituting the loUowmg. Section 8. no person shall be held to answer for a capital or otlierwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land and naval forces, or in the militia when in actual service in time uf war or public danger: all other cases shall be prosecuted criminally by indictment or complaint. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Jefferson. -Mr. Joyes. , and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move to amend section 9. The President: The gentleman from Meagher moves to amend section 9. by striking out the word "conviction" and inserting '"commitment " in lieu thereof. The motion w-as seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. fvanouse of .\leasher: That refers to line 2, of section 9, where It reads. "Ciimmal offences n( which the district courts have jurisdic- tion shall be prosecuted by information after examination and conviction by a magistrate."' It seems to me that that word "conviction" should read "commitment". It would be a strange sort of proceeding to prosecute a criminal for an eems to me they are very nece.ssary. bo. too. there'might be cases in which the magistrate might fail in his duty. 1 think the clause is im- portant, and that it will be found in practice to be very useful and a great saving of time, and an unnecessary delay and expense involved in pre- liminary examinations. -Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I cannot well see what those words mean, even after the explanation of the gentleman. They seem to me en- tirely improper, and have no meaning at all in this connection. Further, if he means the district attorney is going to be advised by the court to examine the case, and have him examine him and prejudge the case before it goes to trial, it would still be decidedly improper. ■S>2 1'110c;KKI)I.\(JS AM) ukbatks .Mr. Knowle.s of Silvci' Bow: .V judgo can ai't. iindor mir law, as a iiiiiinitliiig magistrate, and after a iiarly has bnen examined lietore one oomMultmg- magistrate lie cannot be exammed before another commitljiu magistrate. .Now, as a matter (d' practice, and which would probably be proMded by law m all cases of examination befcue a committing magis- trate the evidence will be I'ediiced to writing, and that evidence, where the committing magistrate has failed to bind over the party to appear before the court, may be submitted to the judge, and the judge upon examination ot that matter may say, "Why here this man ougtit to have been held to answer bc^fore the grand jury," and will so order. Now, thai was th'' idea ot putting that provision in, and that was all there was of it. The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, (.Mr. Carpenter,^ and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost, Mr. V\hitehill nf Deer Lodge: In line 'i, 1 move you that tlie word "seven" be stricken out, and "twelve" inserted: and lliat I he word "li\r be also stricken out, and the word "nine" inserted thpcefor. 'I'he motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion, .Mr, Carpenter of Lewis iV Clarke: If it is in order I move to strike out that sentence. The motion was seconded. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke moves to amend by striking out the sentence, beginning at the latter part of line 3, and ending at the latter part of line 4, as follows: "A grand jury shall con- bist of seven persons, of whom five must concur to find an indictment. ' The Chair then put the question on the salt,! motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, (Mr. Carpenter,! and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The qu(>stion now before the convention is on the motion of the gentleman from ijeer Lodge, i.Mr, Whitehill, to strike out Iho word "seven" and insin't tlierefor "twelve." Mr. Witter ijf Beaverhead: 1 move to amend the amendment by strik- ing out the word "twelve" and inserting "nine". The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Leaverhead, (Mr. Witter, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The question now recurs upon the amendmeul offeri'd by the gentleman from Deer Lodge, (-Mr. Whitehill,! that the words "twelve" shall be inserted instead of the word "seven". The Chair then put the said motion to the convention, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. \li-. Keek of Deer Lodge: 1 wish to offer an amendment. riie President: 'J'he gentleman from Deer Lodge offers to amend section !», by changing the word "seven" in the fourth line to "nine", and the word "five" in. Itie same line to "seven", t would say to the gentle- man from Deer Lodge, that the question of striking out "seven" and inserting "nine has been disposed of in the motion id' the gi'iitleman from tieaverhead, which was lost. Does the gentleman wish to have the remaining part of his amendment (ilaceil belore the convention? .\lr. Keek of Deer l.,odge: I did not undei'stand the word "li\e" was in- cluded III the amendment. Mr. Kanouse ol' .Meagher: 1 move lo amend section Si. The President: 1 see by the printed copy, which I hold, that there are two sections marked section 9, and the Chief Clerk has just ex- idained lo th(> Chair that the first section marked section 8 is a part of it, and that section ',) follows: so that we are really offering these amendments lo section 8, instead of section !(. .Mr. Kanouse of .Meagher: The amendment just (dfered will aiipl.\ to section 8. I he President: The gentleman from .Meagher, (Mr, Kanouse,) of- fers lo amend line :i in section 8 as it is now by striking out the words, "wittioul such examination or commitment, or without such leave o' courl." I'lii' mot Ion was seconded. co.Nsrni I'lo.NAi. c.o.w i':.\ rio.N i,s.sii 25;i .Mr. ]\;inouse of .\li'ai;iit'r; .My only reason lor ollfiint: llial amend- nient, IS lliat it sooms to b(> superlluous. 1 cannot untli'i-stand what busi- ness It has hi tliat oonneftion. unless it be the sense of the convention that it IS necessary to have it. It seems to me to be unnecessary. .Ml-. 1)1X011 of Silver Bow: 1 think ttie fientleman aiisapprehends the inti'iil of that provision. When an inforniatioii is to be filed it will be after commitment by a magistrate, or by lea\e of court. But a gram) jury may mdict witliout any leave of court, or without any previous f-.xanimalion by a magistrate. the Cliair then put the tiuesluiii on the said motion of the gentle- man from .Meagher, .Mr. f\aiiouse. and a \ote being talien. the same was declared lost. Tfie President: If lliere be no further amendments to section H, we will pass to section 9 of the printed cii|iy, being the second section numbered i>. The Clerk read said section as follows: Section 9. Thai treason against the State shall consist only in levying war against it, or in adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort; that no person shall be convicted of treason e.xcept on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act. or on his confession in open court: that no person sliall be attainted of treason or felony by the Legislative Assembly: is no possible opportunity to make use of it. This provision in regard to private roads has witliin the last thirty years been introduced in almost every constitution tliat has been passed and 1 understand it was intended to be introdiiceil here: but there is no pro\'ision iii section li or 15 in referenci; to a privati.' roail. which may IJe determined to lie a matter of necessity, and to lie paid for m advance, as this amendment provides. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman I'roni Lewis & Clarke, (Mv. Carpenter' and a vote being taken the same was (.leclared carried. The Clerii read section l,j as amended. Mr. Collins of Cascade: 1 would like (o inquire if I hi' wocij ".jury" in that amendment means twelve persons. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: 1 siipiiose it means such a jury as is recognized by this Constitution. There being no further amendments to section 15. the Clerk read section 16 as follows: Section IG. That in all criminal [irosecutions the accused shall have the right to appear and defend in person and by counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation: to meet the witnesses against him face to face: to ha\e process lo compel the at- lendance of witnesses in his behalf and a siieedy public trial by an iin- Iiartial jury of the counly or district m which the offense is alleged to liave been committed, subject to the right of tlie state to have a chang(> of \enue for any of the causes for winch llie defendant ina\- obtain the same. There being no amendments to .section 10. the Clerk read section 17 as follows: Section 17. That no iierson shall be imprisoned for tlie inirijos-- of securing his testimony in any case longer than may be necessary HI order to lake his deposition. If he can gi\e security "for his appear- ance at the tune of trial he shall be discharged upon giving Ihe same; if he cannot give security his deposition shall be laken in the manner prescribed by law, and in the presence of the accused and his couiist>l. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. I'resident. I offer an aini'iulmeiii to that section. Tlie President: I'he gentleman Irmn Lewis \ Clarke offers an amend- ment to add to section 17 as follows: "Or without their presence if lh"y shall fail to attend the evamination. after reasonable notice cau>e it requires tlial the deposition shall be taki'ii in the presence of the ac- cused and his counsel. The ai'cused can defeat it by simply not appearing. This is added so Ihal on reasonable iiotiC(> the deposition may bi^ taken without their presence. This is a notice that the Legislature shall [ire scribe. If Ihe accused shall not apjiear. it can be taken without his iires- ence. .Now. tlien, there is another reason wliy the latter part should pre- vail, and that is that there is no provision here for the diM'nsition lieing used III evidence. This latter section provides thai if the witness is dead C.O.NSI I I I I KlNAI, C.n.W K.N ri(».\ |S,Si) ^io.") or luit 111' till' stale ttiat tlir ili'pnsition may lie otliTi'ii in i'\uii'iK'p. ttiat IS. il ttic witiioss wtTi' (lend m- alisi'iil Irmn ttic statr sn llial Ins testi- mony L'Oukl not be obtaiiiert. .Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis \ Clarke: 1 consuier this, Jli-. President, the most dangerous deiiaiture that has ever been made from establistied priii- eiplPS m courts of justice, i sulimilted snme remarks the other da.v upon this proposition when it was before the convention, and I under- took to show that ttie orit;inal intention of the Constitution of llii> United States, when it [iroMded tliat the defenilanl should be entitled to meet the witness face to face meant something more than meeting him before the committing magistrate. I am ready here and now to assert that thai Is the established doctrine, as determined under the Conslilulion of the United States, which is applicable only in cases arising under the consti- tutional laws of (he United Slates, and in the territories of the United States. Jhal is the construction that has been given to it by courts of the highest respectability, which hold that it is in compliance with the constitutional provision if the defendant has been permitted to meet the witness face to face before the committing magistrate where he had the opportunity to cross e.xamine, and that, m all proliabilty, would be the holding of the cimrts of the State cd' .Montana, under tlie Ueclara tion of Kighls, whicli is here presented. But 1 seek to evade a constructioa of that kind, tlere you take it out of the possibility of the courts to de- termine any such proposition as that liy providing in express terms that this evidence may be used against the defendant upon the trial of that cause. 1 take it, sir. as it has been suggested here, that this will result m all probability in saving some costs and expense to the several counties of this territory, and of the State of .Montana, by leason of a provision by which the witness will not be kept in jail, ami that it will also be a great benefit to the witness himself, because of the fact that he will be able to give this bond, which is provided for. or have his deposition taken, as the case may be, 1 do not believe, sir, that there is any con- stitutional authority, to support that by which you can take a witness and put him in jail, and comjiel lum to linger there and languish, as was portrayed here the other day by gentlemen who are in favor of this prop- osition, I think, sir that the witness is at least entitled to the same consideration that the defendant himself is, and that would be to a speedy and impartial trial, if there is any charge or evidence against him; but certainly to take him and incarcerate him in prison is wifli out authority under the constitution: and although the Legislative As- sembly of this Territory has provided for it, and it is perhaps provided for in other sections of the countrj', I do not consider it is legislation follow"ing within the scope of the constitution. But to say that under this provision of the constitution, which guarantees these men the right lo meef these witnesses face to face, that you may go off to the county jail, or elsewhere, and m the presence of the two or three or four per sons, and in the presence o{ the accused, take his deposition which shnll be brought into court and there used against him instead of allowing him to meet the witness face to face, is saying something, sir, that was ne\er intended by the constitution of the United States, and which ought not to be permitted under this Bill of Rights. .\s I said the other day. this is a right whicli ought to follow the defendant all the way Ihroviaii in a criminal prosecution, in the ()rosecution before the committing magistrate, and upon the final trial in order that the jury summoned on their oaths to fiy and determine the guilt, or innocence of that defend- ant, may look as well into the face of this witness and ascertain whether or not he is felling the truth. It frequently happens, sir. or might happen that a witness taken out to some place away from tlie sol(>miiities of the law. out from under the eye of the court and the jury and the multi- tiKle. that he might be able to tell a fair and plausible story: but th.nl if lie was subjected to the cro.ss examination before a court anil jury where they might loi>k into his face, that lie would break down under the fire of the cross exan>ination. which might be liad under such solemnities. 1 perhaps said all that I could say in reference to it upon that occasion, but when this question was once up in a state court there was an argu- ment presented by a distinguished lawyer of his time. Judge Uriah Wright (d' the State of .Missouri, who was attacking the very proposition, which is laid down under the decisions with refernce to the constitution of .Missouri, and I will read to the convention what was said by him. although -50 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES the court deleriniued then tliat iiiectiii'jr tlip witness before the committiiiq inagistrale whore he was cross examined was a sul'ficieiit coiniiliance with that provision. Bui I want to relieve lliis question of the additional i-m harrassnient, which is sought to be placed upon it by this additional sec- tion, which goes further and says that the testimony may be taken at aii> time and used against him. It never was intended, sir, tliat it should go farther than to say that the testimony might be used where tlie wilin's.-i had died, or where, for instance, he tiad gone out of the state and was away from the jurisdiction of the court. Here was what was said by th' gentleman in the Supreme Court of the State of Missouri, and il strike.-. me, sir, it is conclusive, so far as argument is concerned. Hi'ading "The "accused" shall meet the 'witness face to face.' He shall thus meet him in all criminal prosecutions; that is the right. A meeting might in- volve only presence, contiguity: but that is not enough, it stiall be a meeting in the mode and fullness in wlucli man must meet his God in llie day of final judgment, amJ that is, "face to face.' The wlioh- purpose of tlie provision is to thwart falsehood. If perjury were impossible, tlie provision would be without meaning. I'w^o objects were secured by th^' words; first, the witness must look upon tlie accused, the intended victim of a false oath, that he may see the \alue of wliat he is about to destroy, and the accused shall look upon the witness as he swears; second tlie triers shall look upon the false witness and gatlier the perjury from his aspect. The means are simple, but human experience has established their efficacy as tests of truth. They invoke only moral power, Imt that after all is the highest power. 11 is hard to say w'hicli of the two instrumentalities is the greater. "And the ijird turned and looked ujion I'eter: and Peter went out and wept bitterly." ;Luke, Chap 22' When affulavits were read to Mary of Scotland, m prison, imputing to li^r great crimes, the unhappy queen said: "Who are the witnesses■^' for their names were not given, "Bring them before me, and they will for swear their falsehoods when they meet me face to face." The other instrumentality (the right of the triers to look upon the witness) is auxiliary to this. It brings knowledge of whatever is accomplished foi iniKiceiice by the prior means home to the right quarter, and in the rigid way. But its function does not stoji here. It acts independently of thi- rules of evidence, by its own inherent power: and sometimes renders a light derived from those rules unnecessiU'ily. Thus the inspection by th.' jury (d' a witness may dispense with a cross-examination; but when this fails It becomes auxiliary also to tlie rules of evidence, and givi's to the right of cross-examination derived from those rules (not from the con- stitulioni a power which it could not have without it. It is thus suffi- ciently manliest tliat the status of a 'witness' in a criminal prosecution, while It creates no rule of evidence, secures to any man accused of crime the largest amount of impunity from I lie operation id' those rules wlui-li just ice can allow. ■"When and where shall this meeting transpire"/ -Not in the secret chamber of the Grand Jury — not when complaint is made before a justice preliminary to a warrant; but whenever and wherever a 'criminal jirose cation has ceased to be a proceeding ex parte, and has taken the maturi^d form of a legal accusation of crime, and the witness is brouglil to .sustain It. In all 'criminal prosecutions,' the right shall obtain, says the bill ot rights. The words embrace, i think, every form of 'criminal prosecution' known to our laws. In prosecutions by presentment or indictment, the additional right of a speedy trial by a jury of the vicinage is given; but I am not prepared to say that the right to meet the witness 'face to face' IS conlined to that tribunal. Doubtless this security was mainly intended for the hour and iilace (d actual jji'i'il, wlo'ii libeily and life should hi' in greatest jeopardy. wMieii the accused slioiild stand before a tribunal ha\'iiig power over eithei' or both; but the woriJs are broad enough to cover llie initiate prosecution, wherever and whenever it lakes the ma- tured loi'in of a legal aci'usation ot crime. .\iid the same words, as well as tlie reasons on which tliey rest, carry the right through every stagi' of the 'criminal pioseculion.' so long as the 'witness' can by the mode of procedure be brouglit 'against' the accused. While the 'witness' ma> swear he shall swear 'face to face' with the accused. The security lasts as long as the peril and the protection never ends until the iieril is mi'rgVii 111 jiidgiiiciil. CO.NSII ri IIO.NAI. CU.WE.N IKI.N IS.S9 257 ■'I ili'i'in it vpiy lit to put a lil';i' questum tnufliiiig ottior and iiiiidrett riglits sefuri'd by the same progiianl section nf the bill of rights. How olleii shall the ai'eused have counsel, and wiiere? If he once have coun- sel, is the constitution satisfied? If he has counsel hefore.lhe exariiining court, may counsel he denied him before llie jury? If once before a Jury he have counsel, may he be deprived of counsel on the second trial? How ofti'ii may the accused hav(^ tlie right of trial by jury, If once a jury be impanelled ui his case, is the constitutional guaranty at an end? May he be diMued that tribunal afterwards? If the jury bring no verdict and are discharged, or if the \erdict be set aside, may that constitutional 'bul- wark' be from that time abandoned as ha\ mg done its office, and the State pmceed to judgment by a simpler and more summary process? How often shall the accused have the right to compulsory process to force the attendance of his witnesses? .May the process be denied him if once invoked? I'hese questions answer themselves. >io power in the (iovern- ment can rob him of counsel in a ■criminal prosecution' at any one of a hundred trials id' the same cause. I'lie jury must come a hundred times: i! there be as many trials: and in all id' tliem the compulsory process must go for his ■witnesses: and at every trial the witnesses against him must meet hini "face to face', that he may look for the hundredth time upon the witness while he swears, anil every jury may see the manner of the swearing. -Now. Mr. President, it seems to me, that if this section is passed, whicii proposes to put it into the power of the prosecuting attorney to go to jail and take the deposition of a witness, or to go to a law office in this city, a>id take the deposition of a witness, and pm-mit that deposition, as is proposed by the amendment of the gentleman from Levs'is & Clarke who just offered it, to be read in evidence, that you take away from the ac- cused all the safeguards tliat were designed in the first instance by thi; constitution of the United States, and which ought to be designed by this Bill of Rights to throw around the accused. 1 think, sir, it is a departure from established principles that ought not to be tiderated in this conven- tion. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis iV Clarke: Mr. J^resident, I think this matter ought to be left to the Legislature and I offer the following substitute. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers as a substitute for section 17, "That no person shall be imprisoned for the purpose of securing his testimony, except as pro\irled by law." The motion 'was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis ^: Clarke: That would be simply equivalent to striking it out, because whether that resolution passes or not, the Legislature would still have the power to imprison witnesses. The ques- tion has been whether the criminal shall be punished, or the innocent witness punished. Mr. Alaginnis, ot l^ewis & Clarke: Well, do not you think that is a question that may be safely left to the Legislature? Mr, Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: The action of the Legislature in nine cases out of ten has been to imprison the witnesses, Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis A Clarke: Then I second the motion of the gentleman from Lewis iV- Clarke f.Mr. Toole to strike the question out. The President: The motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to strike out ihis section has been seconded, and is now before the house. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: This matter has already been left to the territorial legislature, and they have provided for the imprisonment of witnesses who were unable to give security, or who bad not given security for their appearance before the court in these prosecutions. I do not think it is a safe repository for this power. I think it is one of the very lundamental principles that lies at the very foundation of the liberty of the citizen, and should be provided for in the constitution, and I think it should be placed beyond the reach and the power of the Legislature to check, .Now-, the idea, as I said the other day, of taking an innocent wit- ness who is passing through the country here, who happens unfortunately to witness the commission of a crime, dragging him away perhaps from his family and throwing him into prison because he has not the means of giving security before the magistrate, seems to me to be as great a piece of barbarism as was ever practiced upon the early people of civilization by the inhabitants of the Barbary Coast. I. for one, cannot tolerate it. '£)S I'ROCKKDI.NCS A.M» DKHAIKS Some gentli'iiirii sci'iii to iuo upon ili.' hypothesis — the whole theory nl the gentlenimi rroui J^ewis A: Clarke Air. i'dolpi. is that the witness is the crimiiuil, and that the ilelendant is the honest num. It seems to me that we should throw some safe-guard around here, and take it Irom the powei' of the Legislature to make any provision as they have done, hy whieli an innocent witness is thrust into prison, and taken from his lamily. and kept there until the term of court. ), for one, cannot sanction it. Mr. Knowles, of iSilver Bow: 1 did not intend to say anything further upon this proposition, hut the discussion has taken such a turn, and the amendments that have been made to it are of such a character, that I feel called upon to say a few words. iNow, the amendment that is proposed by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Carpenter' allows a deposi- tion to be taken under provisions of law, after notice, in the absence of the defendant. i\ow, that will make a conflict with the preceding section, which says that the witness must be brought face to face. That is one objection to it. The next objection is that tinman experience has proven that it is best that a witness be confronted hy the accused. Now. this is really for the preservation of the rights of the people. The state does not want to convict anybody who is innocent; the state has only one object in view m all prosi'cutions. and that is to coinict guilty men; and it is found in all prosecutions that it is best that the witness should be con fronted by the defendant. Mow, the gentleman from l^ewis iS: Clarke, who is near me (Mr. 'i'oole), says that this must be carried all the way through, that he be not only confronted on the preliminary examination, but lie must be confronted on the trial before the jury. Well, now, courts have held for a great many years that that was not necessary. In the very case in which the distinguished lawyer from Missouri made that cele brated speech — (interrupted). Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Will the gentleman allow me a moment. They held that was not necessary where the witness was dead, or had gone beyond the jurisdiction of the state. Mr. Knowles, of Silver How: Well, this is not the proposition here either. It is to be taken uiioer such rules and regulations as may be pre- scribed by the Legislalure, and it is reasonable to suppose that the Legis- lature will not establish a rule in relation to criminal matters that it has not established in relation to civil matters. A deposition taken in civil matters can only be used where a iiarty is beyond the jurisdiction of the court, or dead; if he is going away, you can take the deposition but you cannot read it; if the party is within the jurisdiction of the court, and can be brought there by process of the court you cannot read it. It is only lo be taken and used m Ihe absence of the witness where he cannot be pro- duced, and it is reasonable to sujjpose that tlie ijCgislature will proviijo such a provision of law m relation to taking Ihe depositions of these wit- nesses. INow, the gentleman (.Mr. 'I'oole. of Lewis \' Glarkei wishes this matter so eslablished and fixer! itiat the witness must be present upon the trial. As hi' lias admitted here, this is against former decisions ol coui'ts. .Now, il lliose decisions, or the rule that has been established in Ihese cases, has iiol produced hardship, is it reasonable to suppose that taking a deposition in the presence of the accused before a sworn officer will work Ihis hardship? Is it reasonable to suppose that it will? Then, as to striking lliis matter all out and leaxing it to the Legislature to de- termine, I would s;iy thai (lie taking of a deposition in a criminal case is derogatory to llu' pi'Uiciples of Ihe common law. and unless you put It 111 this constilulion. I doubt whether the Legislature would ha\e any power lo do that in a criminal casi'. 'I'he Inking of a deposition, unless it IS by some conslitullonal proxisioii. I lliiiik, as a rule, is not allowed in the courls; and hence il was thought necessary lo put this in the con- ^lilulion for that purpose. Now, I have this to say. thai if you leave it niilrammelled lo Ihe Legislature, why, then you have got to sli'ike out Ihe oilier iirovision Ihat the witness must be met face to face, .\nyhow. 1 believe thai those two seel ions will be conslriied together liy any court 111 Ihe world, and they will say this, that you have got to provide in taking your deposition" a means for producing the defendaiil before the party vvho is to take that deposition, and bidore Ihe witness. It is not necessary to go on here and pio\ide all those means; you can leave it lo the Legislature lo provide them, so that the witness must be face to face with the accuserl; but do not fix us a whole code In relation to taking Ihese depositions. Tliat was Ihe object of llii' .liidiciary Committee in CO.NSIIII IKJ.NAL CU.WKM'IU.X 1889 259 providing il. .Now. Ihe gentlemen say about litis thing of imprisoning men as witnesses, "W liy, that is as old as our nistitutions; why do wo take recognizances from witnesses and require Ihein to give bond lor security.'" That is an old provision of the law: it is older than the gov- ernment of the Lnited Stales, and it w'as required of thein just for that reason, that tlu'y may give this security to appear, so that the state may liave the attendance of these witnesses. I helie\e tlic provision that n here is about the best that can be done. I wouhl sooner say with the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke .Mr. iooke , strike the whole thing out than adopt Ihe provision of the distinguished gentleman from Lewis & Clarke .Mr. Carpenter . 1 do not believe for one in taking the deposition of any witne,-;s. or having any witness testify against a criminal except lace to face. 1 know of an instance that occurred right in this community lu the days of Ihe old N'lgilance Committee. .Mr. Langford, now of St. faul. was Ihe I'hairman of that Committee. .Men were brought in before that Committee that gave testimony before it of a crime committed Ijy two parties and the Committee were almost unanimous that they ought to be punished after Ihe manner of Vigilance Committees; but there were two or Ihi'ee friends of those parties there, and they finally prevaili'd after a great deal of discussion on bringing those two men before the Vigilance Committee. They were brought there and they were confronted, and they confronted the witnesses, and in fifteen minule.s there were not found five men in that Vigilance Committee that were willing to vote for their conviction. The Chairman of that Committee. .Mr. Langford, said that he had seen no rule of law more amply vindicated m his life than in Ihe examination before that \ igilance Committee. This was the very thing that made the Star Chamber investigations of England so odious, that is to say, investigations without having the party confronted by the witness, and 1 believe there can be a means provided by the Legislature by which when a deposition is to be taken the criminal can be brought forward, and oe made to confront the witness. He can be arrested for that purpose by a process of the court — re-arrested and brought there for that purpose. Some means can he provided rather than to have a man who simply happened to have eyes in his head and saw a criminal offense committed being incarceraled for monlhs and moiilhs in one of our common jails. -Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis iVc Clarke: If the Convention will indulge me just one minute I wish to assume a case where, say, half a dozen witnesses are in jail for the purpose of appearing as wilnesses for the prosecution. They cannol give the security required. Un the other hand, here is the accused, under indictment, out on bail. It is impossible undi'r our previous section to have that testimony taken unless he will consent. tie refuses to consent. This provides a way to give him ample notice, and It he does not consent the testimony will be taken, because it will be his own fault if he does not meet the witness face to face. He has every opportunity given him to do it. and that is the only possible way to re- lease an innocent witness from bondage. .Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: The gentleman from Silver Bow. the last speaker except Governor Carpenter, is a distinguished jurist. 1 have sat in his courts and heard him instruct juries as to the hnv — that the jurors were the exclusive judges of the evidence, and of the credibility of the witnesses, and that in considering their testimony they should take in- to consideration upon the question of credihilily the manner in which Ihe witness testified, his bearing upon the witness stand as a matli'r from which they could gather from their opinion as to whether thai man was wnrlhy of belief. That has entered into the juris- prudence of Ihis country as one of the most essential rights of the. ac- cused, that that man on the witness stand should be seen by the jury: that they could take and look him over, understand his manner, look in his eyes, see his hesitation, and see whether he is telling the truth or not: whether he be honest or dishonest; and if there be anything essential in the defense of a man it is that very propositnm. Allow me to ask the gentlemen of this Convention what they suppose would have been th^ result of Ihe Parnell trial had not the perjurer met the court that tried that case face to face. I know, Mr. President, from nearly thirty-four years' experience at Ihe bar that in many cases where you bring a wit- ness before a Commission, a justice of the peace, to be examined, he may lell a smooth story, and when the testimony goes before the trial jury they 2m I'UDCKKDI.NdS AM) 1 )l-;i(ATKS have the niatti'r m cold black and white. Ilicy caniiol estimate tlie valiio that (hat man's Ic'stimony should Jiave. He can lie as smooth as a liar can lie, and they will not know but what it is gospel truth; and 1 tell you. sir, that I agree w-ith the gentleman fi'om Lewis & Clarke, .Mr. Toole, that this is one of the most dangerous innovations that has ever been attemiyt- od m any lundainental law of the land. Because a man is accused, Mr. President, of a crime, it does not follow that he is guilty. .Men ha\'e been incarcerated, they have gone to the gallows, they have gone to the guillo- tine upon false testimony offered, i know in the 'i'erritoi'y of .Montana innocent men have been accused of crime, indicted and convicted. This is one of the most sacred rights that belong to the American citizen: and therefore i shall heartily second the motion lo strike this whole provision out. \ou may say, gentlemen, that wfien you put this provision upon the statutes of the Territory of Montana that an innocent may may be imprisoned, a witness who happened to see some crime committed, be- cause he w^as so situated that he could not shut his eyes and stop up his ears, and could not give bail for his appearance that it is a wise provisioi.. 1 think it one of the most outrageous and abominable restrictions upon the right of American citizens. No Legislature of the State of Montana can, with due regard to the Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United Slates, put a man in prison and keep him there to be used as a witness, and I guarantee that if this case had ever come up on habeas corpus before a competent judge of the Territory of Montana, he would have said, release this man because it is unconstitutional. 1 do not know of any case of the kind, but 1 uo not know of a statute in the United States ihat is in force except in Montana, that allows any such outrage upon the rights ot a citizen. 1 am opposed to any provision of the kind of any character whatsoever, and therefore I shall vote with the gentleman from Silver Bow to strike the whole thing out. I oppose the motion of the gentleman from IjCWis iV Clarke, Majoi- Magiiinis, for the reason that his amendment would simply give authorily to the Legislature to commit this crime upon liberty. Mr. Stapleton. of Silver Bow: WC have heard a great deal about the rights of defendants, and about the rights of prisoners. iNow. it appears to me, Mr. President, tliat the people have some rights as well as the criminal, and what we want to do is to so adjust our laws and constitution as to guarantee all the rights possibl(\ both to the defendant and to tlie people. It will be admitted liy everybody thai there have always been too many loopholes by which many charged with crime, and gniilty ol crime, too, may escajie punishment. .Now, 1 do not understand what my friend, Mr. Toole, proposes to do in regard to this matter. He has ad- dressed the Convention here in regard to what .Mr. Wright of Missouri said in regard to this proposition, but it was only a few days after thai that the Supreme Court of the State of Missouri decided that Mr. Wright was wrong. (Jjaughter) Now, Mr. President, they have decided there that when a man is met face to face with the evidence that is against him, when he is met once that is sufficient. II is not necessary that you should follow him around with the witness on every occasion. When lie IS present at the time Ihat witness is gning his testimony, and with his counsel has an opiiortunity to cross-examine, that is all, it seems to me, that the most slrcnnous adxdcalc nf the rights of the prisiiiicr should claim. W hi'ii llii' li'ial comes off if thai wilin'ss is witllin the jurisdiction of the roui'l, llicii thai e\idenci' is iinl to be used at all but llie witness himself IS lo go before the jury. Hut this is only a precautionary measure when the witness cannot lie pnicured at the trial. .Now, .Mr. President, it is claimed that it is an outrage worse than barbarism to imprison a witness. It does look very hard to imprison a man for that, and be put to as much inconvenience and trouble as the man who has committed the crime. .Now, \iiu lake the proposilioii of .Mr. Toole, that a deposition shall in no case be laken; take the other proposition that the witness shall in no case be imprisoned and held as a witness: why. it necessarily re- sults you liave got no witness when the day of trial comes, and ttie result is that the man who has committed a coldblooded murder, or any other crime that was witnessed by half a dozen (leople cannot be convicted be- I'ause they are all gone and there is nobody to fix the murder at ■ill, and consequently the accused walks into court with perlecl imiiunity. .Now. .Mr. President, you lia\e got. to do one of two things. The iii'ojie ilemand that Ihey siiall be protected, and the only way lo do Ihat is to brmg llii-i cn.vsii II ri{i.\ \i. cow i-;.N 1 1().\ isxii 2GI mail to trial in sniiii' way. and lidiifi' you can iiiinish liini you liaxc gol lo liaxi' witni'sscs in some \va\ . Anw. if you deculi' it is nicnally wi'Oiig, li'f;ally wrnnf: to iniprison a man who camint ^'ivc a bond Inr his appoaf- anri', anil Ihi'ii il' ymi di'cidi' tlial a dcposdiun i-anmil hi' taken, why. yon just prOMdi' a hifrhway hy which I'vcryhody accused id crime can mandi oir with pei'lect mipunity, and there is no lU'otection for the peoi)le al all. I am decidedly at;ainsl stnkiiit;- out ftiis clause m the constitution, and am 111 favor of (ioxernor (larpenlers amendmenl, so that the pcosecutnii.; ai- loniey, 01- anyone who has charge of the matter, can go and notify tlie defendant, and his counsel thai the deposition of the witness will he taken at aM-erlain time and al a certain place, the same as you do in a civil case. I lien, you ha\e gi\eii liiin an op|)oitunity, and tliat is all I hat anybody should ask. If tliey do not desire to be present when that evidence is taken, then the people cannot help it. the prosecution cannot help it. But when they have got notice anil the prosecution goes hefore a notary public, or magistrate, or some person authorized, to take oaths, and tali-j that deposition, it is one hundred to one that ttie defendant will be there. He will want to know what that man is going lo teslify to; but if he is rebellious and stubborn and will not go there, then go and lake the de- position anyhow. Ihat is the only way to get the evidence, and 1 sav go on and take the deposition, and when the day of trial come.s, if that witness IS beyond the jurisdiction and the control of the court, then that evidence can be read before the .jury: fmt if the witness is within tlid .jurisdiction of the court then it is not right it should be read. Of course. It js always better that the .jury should judge of the bearing of the wit- ness, but in the absence of that, you are going to say that the defendant shall £0 scot free. 1 say no. the people have some rights. This is the people against the defendant, and it is the people trying to protect then.- seives against the criminal classes: and instead of putdng in our time tifre providing a higliv\-ay by which the criminal classes should escape. 1 say that all we should do is to give them a speedy and impartial trial. -Mr. Burleigh, of "Custer: 1 demand I he ]ircviiius question. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question mi I he said motion id' I he gentleman from Custer (.Mr. Burleigh , and a vole being taken, the same was declared earned. 'i'he President: The question befiu-e the Convention is upon tlio motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, to strike out section 17. .Mr. .J. iv. Toole, of Lewis i.*i; (ilarke: Permit me to make an inquirx. 1 think the t^resident insists uiion putting the motion wrong. The motion IS to strike it out. .Now. if there should be a tie vote on the proposition the way the Chair puts it. the motion that it stand would be lost, and if the other way on the motion to strike out. it would be lost. The President: 1 would say to the gentleman it Is customary to put the motion that way. It is parliamentary form. If it is the wisli of ttie Convention to put ii the other way, the Chair vsill so put it. .Mr. .J. K. I'oole of Lewis \- Clarke: I would prefer lo lia\e il put that way. The President: If there be im objection as many as are in favor of striking it out say Aye. the Chair announced the niolion to strike out as lost. The f-'resident : Lhe question is now upon tlie motion nf Ihe gentle- man from Lewis >S. Clarke which will now be read. The Clerk read the amendment of Mr. Carpenter of Lewis A Clarke as follows: "Or without their presence if they shall fail to attend the exam- ination after reasonable notice of the time and place thereof. Any depo- sition authorized by this section may be received as evidence upon the liial if the witness shall be dead or absent from the territory." .Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move it be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Rickards of S?ilver Bow: I may be in error, but is not that last •.vord a strange phraseologj-? Are we adopting a Constitution for the terri- tory? Mr. Carpenter of Levvns ^: Clarke: I beg to apologize. It should be "state." i.'t5a lMU)!:KKI)l.\ following, "tlie jury may be dis- charged and." There is no |iro\ ision with reference to discharging the jury. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the quest mn mi the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis iV Clarke. .Mr. Carpenter, and a vote being taken ttie same was declared carried. .Mr. Di.xon of Silver Bow: .Mr. President I desire to idler an amend ment. The ameiidmeiit was sent In the Clerk's desk. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow, (.Mr. l_)ixon. offers to amend section IH by sinking out tlie words, "arrested for error o!' law." m line 3, page i, and iiiserl instead, "sel asnle, m- il a lu-w li'ial In' granted or if the judgment be rexersed on appeal. " The Motion was seconded. Mr. Kobinson of Deer Lodge: Mr. President 1 mnxe to aineiid that by striking out the word, "Nenlict," and insert the wiu'd '■,iiiil^;menl " in lieu thi'reof. for the purpose of making il harmonious willi tin- aiiieinl ment of the gentleman from Silvei- Bow. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion nt llic ^eidlrnian from Deer Lodge. lAlr. Robinson^ and a vote being taken tin' same was declared lost. The President: Tlie question now recurs upuii llic aiiii'iidiiieiit idlen'd by the gentleman from Silver Bow, (Mr. Dixon. The Chair put the question on the said motion nl Ihe genllemaii Irnm Silver Bow, and the same was declared earned. The t^lerk then read the section as amended, as lollows: "Sectmn IS. 'that no person shall be compelled to testify against himself in a criminal ease, nor sliall any person lie twice put in jeopanly for Ihe same offense. If the jury disagree or if the judgment lie arrested after verdict, oi- if the verdict be set aside or it a new trial be granted, or if the judgment be re\ersetl on appeal, nr if any juror, or ihe judge of the court shall, from sickness or other cause tiecome nnalde to ad afler the I'lnpaiu'lling r.o.Nsiiri no.NAL c.n.w i-;.\i i().\ is,s;i 20:! ol' llic ,iUi-\, file Jury iiuiy bi' iliscliaii;ril. iiml I he aci-usod sliall nnt In- (leeiiKHl to liavp been in jenpartly." Mr. Carpontcr ol Lewis c'i Clarke: Mr. I'resulent. I Ibiiik llie Ian- f,'uafre (lUKht to be eliangnl. II read.s, "I lie Jury may be diseliaryed." I lliiiik to make it granimalieal and I'on.secutiye: il should read, "and the jury .sliall be tiiseharf;i'(l." 'I'lie ('resident: II IhiM-e be im nbjeid Kin. Ilie Clei-k will enter '■sliall" msteati ot ■■ma> '. .\lr. Callaway ot .Madisim: I imw renew llii' inntKui of the j;eiitleinan I'nim Deer i.odge. tliat tlie word "xerdiet ' the second time it appears m line 3, page i. be made "judgment. II I lie gentleman of the Convention will turn liaek they will read, "If I he jury disagree, or if the judgment be arrested alter verdict, or if the verdict be arrested for error of law." It IS a mistake somehow: It is intended to be "judgment." .\o one ever heard of a verdict being arrested. The I'resident; I'he Chair would suggest to the geiUleinan from Madison that that question has been disposed of. .Mr. .Middleton of Custer: I would suggest to the gentleman Ironi .Madison that it does not read that way now as amended. It reads. "If the verdict be set aside." the word "arrested" was stricken out. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Before we vote upon this provision, as now amended, 1 would like to call the attf^ntion of the Convention to the fact that I believe this is a greater innovation than you have yet uiulertaken. There is a provision there, as 1 understand it, that if the judgment is reversed, etc. .Now, that language there does not confine it on appeal of the defendant but if it is reversed on appeal on the part of the state, why then the party is not in jeopardy, .^ow^ the whole doctrine of jeopardy is gone in that case, because the Slate can lake an appeal, and if the judgment is reversed, try the man over again. The President: Does the gentleman desire to offer an amendmi'iit? .Mr. Knowles of Siher liow: .No, I di'sire to vote against thai pro- vision. .Mr. .Marshall of .Missoula: .Mr. President, it seems to me. that the same object ttiat the gentleman from Silver Bow has upon appeal would op- erate upon a new trial. \\ here there has been a trial and a verdict, you cannot put the defendant in jeopardy again, whether by appeal or on motion of the court. It seems to me, that if that is what this section means, that is violative of the very first ju'inciple that a man shall not be twice put in jeopardx for the same offense, nol only on appeal, but on a new trial. If it is confined to the motion of the defendant, that it sliall rest on aiipeal, ov judgment arrested, or a new- trial granted on this imi- tion. It IS perfectly right, but it seems to me, that it is intended to apply to any appeal, to give the Commonwealth the right to appeal or a new- trial, or to mo^ e the arrest of judgment or anything else. That is put- ting a man twice in jeopardy for his own life, and is the very thing we are endeavoring to guard against. The President: The Chair would slate there is nothing pending liefore the Con\ention. .Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I ili'sii'e to move you to strike out all of section 18, after the word "offense" on ttie second line of said section, at the bottom of page 3, The motion was seconded. The Chair put the tiuesfion on the said motion of the gentleman from (iailatin. .Mi'. Hartman. and a \ote liemg taken the same was de- clared carried. rtie I'resnienl: We will now iiass on lo the consideration of section 19. The Clerk reail section 19 as follows: Section 19. That all persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, except lor capital offenses when the proof is evidence or the presumption great. There being no amendments to section 19, the Clerk read Section 20 as follows: Section 20. That e.xcessive bail shall not be required, for e.x- cessive fines imposed, nor cruel or unusual punishments inflicted. There being no amendments to Section 20, the Clerk read Section 21, as follows: Section 21. That the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall never be suspended, unless in case of rebellion or invasion, the pub lie sat'dy re(|uire it. VOi l>H<)(;KKI)l.\(iS AM) DKBATKS iliiTR being no ainendiiients lo t^octioa 21, tho Clerk read Sec-lion 22. as Idlliiws: Section 22. Tlial the military shall always Ije in strict subiiiTlinalidii hi the civil power; that no soldier shall, in time of peace, tje inKirtereil in any house without the consent ot the owner, nor in time of wac, except in the manner ))rescribed by law. There beins no a^mendments to Section 22, the Clerk read Section 2o as lollows: Section 2J. Tlie right of trial by .jury shall be secured to all, and reinaiu inviolate, but in all civil cases and iii all criminal cases not amounling to felony, ujjoii default of appearance or by consent ot Itie parties expr(>ssed in such manner as the law may prescribe, a trial by .jurx may be waived, or a trial had by any less number of jurors than the number provided by law. A jury in justice's courts, both in cixil cases and in cases of iM'iminal misdemeanor, shall not consist of more than six persons. In all cnil actions two-tliirds in numlier of the jury may ren- der a verdict, and such verdict so ri'iidered sliall liavi' ttie same force and effect as if all of such jury concurred tlierein. Mr. Craven, of Lewis A Clarke: 1 mo\e to aiueiid. The l-'resident: Tlie gentleman from Lewis i*c Clarke offers an amend- menl. Strike out in line six th(> words, "two-thirds in number," and insert in lieu thereof the words, "in number not less than three-fourths." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Hartman of (iallatin: Mr. Presidi'iit. I desire lo nio\e an aiiiend- iiient to the anKiudment by sinking out all of section 23, after the word "persons" in line six of said section; in other words, the entire last sen- tence, "In all civil actions." etc. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Middleton of Custer; .Mr. President, 1 hope this motion will not prevail. 1 believe I am somewhat in favor of the amendment proposing that nine may bring in a verdict not less than nine; but to say that the old rule, that the verdict must be unanimous, I do not believe it is the .sense of this Convention that tliat should be done, or that that should be a provision of the Constilulion. The gentleman who has made the motion to strike out, lr(Mn his ex|ierience as a lawyer, knows undoubtedly that jt many times happens in damage suits, and in various kinds of civil actions that it is possible for a party to the action lo succeed in gelling one or two friends on the jury that perhaps will go so far almost as not to intentionally disregard their oath, but lean so much to their friends as lo be iierhaps unconsciously, biased in his favor. Now. in the usual and onlinary matters of life, business, politics, and everything else, a majority rules. 1 would not be in favor of making it a bare majority 111 a ,)ury trial, but 1 do believe that three-fourths of the jury should be sufficient in any civil action. It may be possible for a party to get one or two, or perhaps three men on the jury who may be to some ex- tent biased in his favor, but to get more than Itiat would seem perhaps improbable; and 1 believe that in a majority of cases, a verdict by nine would be more satisfactory than a disagreement and the retrial of the case. I have in my mind a case that I tried twice. The first time it was tried tlie jury were out some thirty six hours, and finally were discharged by the court, and stood Ion lo two. The case was retried at the next term ot the court, and the jury stood, when they were discharged, nine to three, the majority of the jury being in both instances the one way. Now. 1 assert- right here. that, in my judgment, on each one of those juries, there were two i>v three men who were not fit persons to sit upon the trial of that cause; and that the party made his brags that he had one or two men on that jury that never would bring in a verdict against bun. 1 believe that a Verdict of nine men should be sufficient. Mr. Magiiinis of Lewis >V Clarke; 1 ask that the Chief Clerk read to the Convention the opinion of Judge Ueidy, the United States District .ludge of Oregon, the oldest and most distinguished jurist on this coast. The t^lerk read as follows; Provided that a majority of a jury may finif a verdict in all cases, or at least do not tie the hands of the l^egislatiire so that it cannot be done hereafter. This is a very iniporlant. matter. The constitution of the jury must be reformed in lliis iiarticular if this institution is not to become an impediment to the admiiiistralion of jus- tice. All those who thrive by the defense of crininials. and consider a hung jury, even if by one to eleven, the next thing to an ac(iuitlai. will CO.NSTITUTIO.NAL CO.W KM H IN I.SHi) L'Oo 111' found opposing.' tliis relorm. II could liavi' lui bi'tter i-oiiinn'iidnliou to the peO|di' at largo, as 1 once wrote ni an essay upon the subjeet, published in the American Law I^eview. Voluinne 17, page i03. This is cmiihatically an age of individual opinion and judgment, whether it is better or worse on that account, it is now not material to inquire, but m the consideration of this question the fact ought not to be ignored : With llie exception, of juries il is a fundamental law "f our institutions, and the unwi'illen law of society, that when any matter is submitted to the \erthcl oi- judgment of any number of persons, the action or opinion of the majority shall prevail, it applies to Congress and to courts, and there IS no longer" any good reason why the verdict of a jury should not conform to it also." .Mr. -Maginnis of Lewis >.V- Clarke: .Mr. President this is the advice given to the Constitutional Convention of our sister Territory of Wash- ington by the oldest and most distinguished United States District Judge in this part of the country, known, I presume, to every lawyer here, and I hope it will have weight with the Convention that the very moderate reform that our Committee has recommended will be sustained; The President: The Chair desires to state that the motion ottered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to amend will, according to the rules properly come first before the Convention. According to this rule, the Chair wili entertain the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, to amend the latter part of the section, before the question to strike out, and that is now the question before the Convention. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: Do 1 understand now the motion before the hlouse is on the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke.' The President: The Chair so stated. .Mr. Goddard of Vellowstoiie: There is serious objection that may be urged against the motion of the gentleman, and that is that it might neces- sitate the diMding up of one of the jurors in order to arrive at a verdict. As 1 understand, the amendment provides that three-fourths of the jury may find a verdict. The President: Any number not less than three-fourths. .Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: Yes, sir. .Now. if a jury of nine were agreed upon, it would be hard to determine as I say, without cutting a juror in two: or if the number of five were agreed upon, or even six; and the same objection might be urged to the other proposition as to a two- thirds majority. W here it provides that a jury of a less number shall be agreed upon to try the case, if they should agree upon five or seven, it would be a hard matter then to arrive at the verdict. So far as the prop- osition is concerned as to the majority of the jury finding a verdict, I am m accord with that. The reasons have been well stated by other gentle- men who have preceded me, and better stated by the article read by the clerk, from the pen of Judge Deidy. There are numerous instances occur- ring every day in the courts ot this territory and everywhere else, for I hat matter where great injustice is done to one or the other of the liti- gants. .-Vs has been said, it may be that a juror get^ upon the jury who is biased or prejudiced in favor of one of the parties in a civil action, and he goes there with the prejudice in his mind, and perhaps, contrary to his oatii, for that matter, and he would hang the jury and would lose it before he would give in. So. in a case of that kind a great in- justice would be done. .Not only that, but in minor offenses against the law of the territory, in misdemeanors the same rule would apply there. 1 am most decidedly in favor of a majority of the jury finding a verdict in all civil cases, and in cases of misdemeanor but I am not in favor of the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke as to three fourths, or I he other proposition of two-thirds. 'The Chair then put the question on the said motion ol" the gentle- niaii from Lewis tV: Clerke. (Mr. Craven,' and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. The President: The question now recurs upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin to strike out ail that portion of the sec- tion after "persons" in line six, as the Chair understands it. I'he Chair then put the question on the said motion of the gentle- man from Gallatin, (Mr. Hartman. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. 266 l'lt()(;i:KI)l.\(iS AM) DKBATKS Mr. Robinson ol Deer l.ii(|j,'c: 1 ino\i' U> uirnMul the section by strikiniL' out the word '•(■nil wIhtc it occui-s in Ihc last line but one — line G— so (hat it will read "In all art inns." 'I'he motion was sreoinli'd. .Mr. Hartinaa of Gallatin: .\Ir. (Jliairnian it seems to me, that thf elfeid. of that amendnn'iit should be well CDOsidered before this Convention votes upon it. I'he (dfccl of lliat amendment is to say that every criminal prosecution m Ibis couiilr>'. no matter what it may be, even for the very highest offense known to tiie law, that of murdiT, or treason, shall be tried, and the party may be convicted by a verdict of two-thirds of the .jury. .Now, I was not parlicular about the motion which I made to strike out the clause which pro\ides that two-thirds shall find a verdict in a ci\il action and 1 must confess this, that 1 am somewhat wedded to old institutions when it comes to the question of enacting a funda- mental law, and it does seem to me that we are introducing an innovation here upon which the rights and liberties of the citizens of this community depend; and that this step is too far in advance. Kvery case of murder, every case of arson, every case of treason wihich occurs in the State of Montana, if this amendment prevails, will be tried by a jury two-thirds of whom may find a conviction. Now I frankly admit this, that the jury system which has been in vogue in the United States ever since its existence is not a perfect system, and I pretend to say, that no human system will be perfect. There are none but what will present their de- fects tous. But, gentlemen of the Convention when we are striving in advance, let us remember this, that the entire exiierii'iice of this .Nation during its entire existence has been in support of a jury system in which twelve men have concurred in all cases of felonies that are tried in the United States. Now it seems to me, that this is too much of a step in advance, and that if you must allow two-thirds of the jury to find a verdict, let it be at least in case of misdemeanor, if it is to be in criminal cases at all. 1 think the gentlemen will make a mistake if we permit the institution of a jury twelve of whom have been heretofore necessary to concur in a verdict, to be reduced to two-thirds. It is imperilling the liberties of the people. The I'resident: The question is upon tlie amendment offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge, (Mr. Robinson,'- to strike out the word "civil." Mr. Robinson of Ueer Lodge: 1 am in favor of all radical reforms, but when such excellent authority as Judge Ueidy advances a proposi- tion of this kind, he stands as a disinterested party: it is well enough to stop to consider it, and if majorities rule in every transaction in life why not in these matter. If two-thirds of a jury can find a verdict in a civil case, 1 can really see no impropriety in providing the same thing in crim- inal cases. The reasons assigned for a two-thirds or three-fourths ver- dict in a civil case, apply with still greater force in cfiminal cases, be- cause if there is any temptation in any character of action to tamiier with the jury, to get men on the jury Who will not lie governed by their oaths, and (he law and the evidence in the case it is in cases of felony. The temptation in such cases is so great that if men can be obtained upon that jury by hook or crook to accept the defendant by means foul or fair, the temptation is so much greater that it is more likely to occur. For rea- sons of that character, the reasons for the change from a unanimous ver- dict to a two-thirds or three-fourths one are still greater increased. I am not raidcal upon these propositions but I desire the Convention to think the matter over a little before they pass on it one way or the other. It IS worthy of consideration and not to be voted down has(ily, but upon consideration and I say the reasons for it apply in criminal cases vvi(h greater force, if anything, (lian in civil casi>s. .Now, so far, Mr. President, as men being convicted of crime who are innocent, that will rarely, if ever, occur. Under (he instruidioiis and admonitions of courts that jurors must be convinced of every proposition neeessarv In cnnstitute (he gliill of a defendant before they can find him i:uilty. and willi (he nadiral reliu'- taiice, sir, that jurors have to eon\icting innocent men. (In^y always liesi- late, (hey study, they go slow upon these propositions: they consider about it. .\iid I have yet \i\ meet an instance where a iikui has biM'ii (convicted wrongfully, Resides that, .ludges sitting upon (he Bench, if they see that the testimony will not warrant a conviction, they are maile of flesh and blood like jurors, and like every one else. They will iie\ er al- low an niiiiiri'iit man to l)e piinistii'il. Siirli lias been my obserx atioii. Iliat C.D.NSIIII IIO.NAI. Cn.W K.\ I |().\ is,s;i 207 llicrr has lii'i'ii nil danyi-r nl llic iniim-cnl sullrniij; llic |iriiallirs iil llie law. llii'ii. sir. lliiisi' wlio ;i thing in Ihcni-y, yi>t we want sir to proti-rt I hi; miHU-enl as to jninisli I hi' guilty. That, sir. is" the olijeet of every erim- inal cotle — to serve tliose two purposes, tu protei-l the innoeent as well as to punish the guilty. .Now. sir. let us see what we are ilritliiig into if we weigh ilown our criminal eoiJe and the defendants with a weight of teehniealilies by whieh it heeoines next to iniiiossihli- to secure a cnn- \iction of the defendant. !?ueli a theory of criminal law is well suited til thi Ideal of men who devote their exclusive time in defending crnn- inals. hut what will be the effect of that, i'he effect of that would be, lluil It would lie next to impossible to secure the conviction of a defend- am where the conviction could tie held down and llie punishment se- cured. What tlieii, would be the result of these homicides in felony cases? The result of that would he that there would be more men wrongfully condemned to death and suffer the penalties than would be under a liberal and fair character of criminal code. W hy. some statistician has seen fit to lake the year 1884 as an average year as to homicides; and upon examination finds that in that year I.l'(52 homicides had been coiiimitted m the Lnited S^tales. Of that number. 1)3 of them has been punished by the courts: 112 of them had been hanged by \ igilanci' Com- inittees. Gentlemen may say it is wrong for Nigilance Committees to hang lliem. but nevertheless, they will do it. and tliere are no degrees in the Verdicts of such tribunals as that. Their verdict is almost invariably murder in tlie first degree, then, it is fair to presume sir. of that llL' that were executed at the hands of that character of tribunal, at least two-thirds of them were of such character of cases as no impartial jury or any lawyer, or judge of the court would say that they should have been convicted of murder in the first degree, but it would have been second degree or manslaughter and some of them under fair construction would have been entitled to an aciiuittal; yet, at the same time there were at least two-thirds of those ll:i men \yho were execuled because of the laxity in the administration of our criminal code. Now. then, in an- swer to those who have talked of the imaginary protection of defendants here, with fine sounding periods. Let us pause a little and see the effect of it. It is but human nature that wherever the laws are so constructed as to defy the conviction of criminals by the court, the people will not long be outraged in that way. but they will, whether it is rigtit or wrong. lake the law- m ttieir own hands. It is not a rpiestion for the man who is being dragged to the limb of a tree to be hung by a Vigilance Com- mittee, or a mob. It is no consolation to him to know that their proceed- ings are wrong: it is no consolation to his friends, to his wife, his children, and his relatives, to think over the matter after the deed has been ilone: to think that the proceedings are all wrong. That does not alleviate the pain and mortification: it does not relieve the public of the odium of it: and 1 say, sir, if we would protect the lives of innocent men. which is one of the objects of criminal law, it must be so constructed that we must have an even and reasonable chance of punishing the guilty. It IS the only way we can shield the innocent. Then. I say. let us pause in constructing a criminal code: let us pause and see that we have given the people an e\ en chance with the defendant if we w-ould protect the in- nocent: and I say. then, that this proposition to convict the defendant with less than the unanimous verdict of a jury does not present the mon- strosity and the dangerous thing to the life and liberty of the prisoner that may he imagined: and on the whole, sir. 1 believe I am inclined to sup- port the proposition. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. (Mr. Hobinson\ and a division being called for, the same was ileclared lost by a vote of 14 in the affirmative to 4.5 in the negative. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I offer the following amendment. In all civil actions, and in all criminal actions not amounting to felony two-thirds in number of the jury may render a verdict, and such verdict, etc. .\dd the words, "and in all criminal cases not amounting to felony." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question 'on the said motion of the gentleman from Cascade. ',Mr. Collins, and a division being called for. the same was de- clared carried, by a vote of 32 in the affirmative to 22 in the negative. ije« PUOCKKDI.NCS A.NK I >i;HATES Mr. Hogaii ol' i^ilver Bow: I'di- informal imi. I would like (o ascertain liow it reads as amended. 'i'lie Glei-k read the seel ion as jiiniMidcil. Tlie President: If tlieri' br no lurllii'r ainendnients to section 23, tlie clerk will read Sec. L'i. Tlie Clerk read section -'1 as lollows: Section 24. Laws lor ttie punistiinent of crime shall lie lounded on the principles of reformation and |ireveiition and not of vindictive justice. .Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. l^resident, 1 move to strike out the fi\c last words of that section, "and not of vindictive justice." I am in favor of the first part of it, but justice is never vindictive. The word "vindictive" implies malice or reveiifre. i he motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, (Mr. Carpenter,! to strike out the words, "and not, (jf vin- dictive justice," and a vote being taken, tlie same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 move to strike out the whole section. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion ol the gentlfiman from Custer, (Mr. Burleigh,) to strike out section 2i. and a vote tieiiig taken, the same was declared lost. Mr. 1)1X011 of Sliver Bow: 1 desire to offer an amendmi'iil. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Dixon, offers an amendment. At the end of section two add the following, "But this shall not affect the power of the legislative Assembly to provide for the pun- ishment of offenses by dealli." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said aniendmeiit of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Dixon, and a \"0te being taken, the same was de- clared carried. There being no further amendments to section l'4, the Clerk read section 25 as follows: Section 25. Persons of Foreign birth or residence shall have the same right as native born citizens to acquire, purcliase, possess, enjoy, convey, iraiismil and inherit mines and mining property, and milling, reduction, conceni rating and other works and real property' necessary for, or connected with the business of mining and treating ores and minerals. Provided that nothing herein contained shall be construed to infringe the authority of the United Slates to provide for the sale or disposition of its mineral and oilier public lands. .Mr. Conrad of Choteau sent up an amendment. .Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr. Whitehill, offers an amendment to section 25, as follows: ".Miens who are, or wlio may hereafter become bona fide residents of tins Stale may acquire, inherit, possess, enjoy and dispose of properly. I'eai and iiri'sonal. as native liorii citizens. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. H. Toole of Deer Lodge: 1 hope this aniendment will not pre- vail. 1 think if it should do so it would ilefeat the purposes for wliich tins section is insected. The objijct. as I undersland is. and one i>f the greal objects lo be secured by admission to Slalehood will be this privil- ege, that IS. the priviliege of disposing of mining jiroperly to non-resi- dents of this country. It is a well known fact tnat we haxc engaged in this business alread>' considerable foreign capital, and more will be in- vested when it is known that the restrictions thai now hedge these in- vestments are remoxed by the admission of the Slate into llie L'ni; taken, (he same was de- clared lost. Mr. Uixon of Silver Bow: 1 desire to otfi'r an ami-ndment to that sec- tion. The President: The g:entleman from' Silver Bow offers a motion to amend Section 25, by striking out the words, "persons of foreign birth or residence" in line one and inserting instead the word "aliens." The motion was seconded. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Why not go farther, and strike out the word "native born," because an adopted or naturalized citizen has the same right as a citizen; so that it would read, "aliens shall have the same right as citizens." Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: 1 accept that amendmeni. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow, .Mr. Dixon, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to Section 25, the Clerk read section 26 as folows: Section 26. That the people have) the right peaceably to assemble for the common good, and to apply to those invested with the powers of government for the redress of grievances by petition or reraonstrance. .Mr. tlonrad ot Choteau: I would liki; to be excused for the remainder of the afternoon. The President: If there be no objection, the gentleman from Choteau will be excused for the remainder of the afternoon. There being no amendments to Section 26, the Clerk read section 27 as follows: Section 27. That no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law. There being no amendment to Section 27, the Clerk read Section 28 as follows: Section 28. That there shall never be m this State either slavery 01 involuntary servitude, except as a punishment foi' crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted. There being no amendment to Section 28. the Clerk read Section 21) as follows: Section 29. The provisions of this Constitution are iiiandator>' and prohibitory, unless by express words they are declared to be otherwise. There being no amendment to Section 29, the Clerk read Section 30 as follows: Section 30. The enumeration in this Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny, impair, or disparage others retained by the people. There being no amendment to Section 30, the Clerk read Section 31 as follows: Section 31. iSo armed person or persons or armed body of men shall be brought into this State for thepreserxatioii of the peace or the suppression of domestic violence except upon the application of the Legis- lative Assembly, or of the Governor when the Ijegislative Assembly cannot be convened. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis iV (Clarke: 1 move the adoption of I'l'oijosilioii A'o. I, and on that 1 call tlie previous question. The motion was seconded. T'he I'residenI ; The (2lerk will v;\\\ the nill. ami the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll, and I he vote stood as follows: .Ayes, .\iken. Bickford, Brii/.ellon, Breeii, Browne, Buford, Bullard, Burleifrh, Burns. A. !•".: Burns. I'JKvard; Burns, A. J.: Callaway. Cardwcll, (rarpeiiler, Caiiby. (.hessman, Collins, tlooper, Courtney, Craven, Conrad, Dixon, DurtiM', Dyer, CO.NSI'll'L'TIO.NAL CO.WK.NTIO.N I8«l) 271 Eaton, I'lelds, Ciaylord, tiibson, Uillette, Goddard, Graves, Hartinan, Has- kell, Hatch, Hobsoii, Hogan, .Joy, .loves, Kanouse, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Knowles, Loud. Maguinis, Marnon, Marshall, Mayger, McAdow, Middleton, .Miti'hell, Meyers. Parberry, Rainsdell, Keek, Rotvvitt, Rickards, Sargent. Sehinidt, Staplelon. I'oole, J. Iv.; Toole. J. R.: Warren. Watson, Whitehill, \\ it.ter. Mr. President. — (iO. Ways. Robnison. — 1. Absent. Conrad, Ham- mond. Hershtield. Hickman, Ivohrs, Luce, Muth, Webster, — 8. 't'he i'resident: There are on the adoption ot Proposition i\o. 1, 06 votes in tlie atfirmative, and I vote in the negative. The motion is carried, and l''ile Ko. 1 will now be referred to the Lngrossmg Committee, to be properly engrossed, and referred to the (.'.uminitlee on Revision and Phraseology. Mr. Burleigh ot Custer: 1 move that the Convention take a recess until eight o'clock tliis evening. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins of Cascade: Mr. President, 1 iiKne we adjourn. 1 will state that a number of Committees want to be in session this evening, and il will expedite the work of the Convention. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion uf the gentleman from Cas- cade, (Mr. Collins,! and a vote being taken, tlie same was declared carried. The Convention stood adjourned until Wednesday, July ::^4th, 1889. SI.XTEIiNTH DAY Wednesday, Julj 24th, 1889, .Morning Session The Convention was calh'il lo nrder at ten A. M. by the President. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The gentleman from .Jefferson. Mr. Bullard, was called away professionally, and desires to be excused. Mr. Buford of Madison: 1 ask that Judge i^uce be excused, as he is stiU indisposed. The Presidenl : If there be uu objection. Iliese geiillemen will be excused. The Chaplain ottered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. Mr. Uurfee of Deer Lodge sent up petition. The President: The Petition of Citizens of Deer Lodge County relative to Sunday Law will now be read. The Clerk read as follows: Petition of Citizens of Deer Lodge County relative to Sunday Laws. Philipsburg. Montana, July 18, 1889. To the Honorable Delegates of the Constitutional Convention of Mon- tana. Gentlemen, sirs. Vve, the undersigned, citizens of Deer Lodge Coun- ty, and Territory of Montana having tlie interests of the Commonwealth of the future State of Montana in view', do hereby pray and petition your honorable Body to grant favorable consideration for the better ob- servance of Sunday m the interest of laboring persons, and people generally, ami the promotion id morals; and that we most earnestly solicit calm and deliberate consideration of the import- ant questions involved, carefully guarding against any influence manifest- ly antagonistic to the iirotection of all religious societies in their views, customs, usages and rights as pertain to disturbance of worshippers, or the orderly condition of society. (Signed) G. W. JKNKliNS. and 67 others. The President: If there be no objection this [letition will be received and referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Provisions. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: 1 have a protest from Dawson County In- habitants against the passage of the Conrad Resolution, and ask that when it is read it may be referred to Committee No. Ten. The President: The Protest from Citizens of Dawson County will be read. 212 I'ilOCKKDI.N'GS A.\D DKHAIES Mr. Courtney ol Silver Bow: Mr. Pic'siiteiU, 1 understand that is a protest against the passage of the Conrad Resolution. It so. I ask that the reading he dispensed with inasmuch as the Conrad Resolution was voted down yesterday. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: It may have some influence on the judgment of the Convention afterwards. 1 ask that it be read. The Clerk read as follows: "We, the undi'rsigned, citizens of Glasgow, Montana, do earnestly and respectfully remon.strate against tlu; insertion of the Conrad clause in the constitution of Montana in regard to the requirement of a taxable valuation of three million of dollars in all new counties hereafter created, for the following reasons: i'lrst, Ihat the present county seat of Dawson county is at Uleiidive. more than one hundred miles from this place, and can only be reached b\ rail by traveling a distance of nine hundred miles by going to Helena and thence by the iNorthern Pacific Railroad, or by going to t-'ort Buford by stage, a distance of more than two hundred miles. Second: Glasgow contains a population of four hundred inhabitants and IS situated near the geographical center of the northern part of Daw- son county on the St. faul, Minneapolis and .Manitoba Railroad, which has two hundred and nine miles of road-bed in said county. It is de- sired by all that the present county of Dawson be di\ided at the .Missouri River, and that the coming seat may be located at l.\i».N. Cliaiiiiian. The Clerk read the Resolution of Browne of Choteau referred to as tollows: Resolved that the Coninutlee on Judiciary of this Comention be instructed to consider and report whether tlie Enabling Act of Congress provides for a General Election to be held before admission to fill all the offices both State and County created by the Constitution. The President: If there be no objection this rejioil will he rei-en-ed. Mr. Browne of Choteau sent up a report. The President: The report of the Commitlec (in Cll.\-. C.ciunly and Idwii Organizations will be read by the Clerk. CO.NSriTUl'IO.NAI, C.O.W K.N'l'IO.N 1S,S0 273 The Clerk read as follows: Mr. Presldenl. your Committee No. Ten, have liad under consideration the subjects pertaumg to City, County and Town Organizations, and have instructed me to report the following ar- ticles, and recommend that the same bi' incorporated into, and become a part, of till' C.iinstitution. Signed f)A\ll) (;, liUOW'iNE, Chairman. ".Vrticle (111 .\lunici|j;U Ciirporaluuis and Offices. Section 1. The several counties of the Territory of xMontana. as they shall e.xist at the time of the admission of the State into the Union, are hereby declared to he th(> counties of the State until otherwise established or changed by law. Sec. 2. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to remove the county seat of any county, but the same shall be provided for by general law-; and no county seat shall be removed, unless a majority of the qiiali- tied electors of the county, voting on a proposition at a general election vote therefor: but no such proposition shall be submitted oftener than once in four years, and no person shall vote on such proposition who shall not have resided in the county six months, and in the election pre- cinct ninety days next preceding such election. Sec. 3. That the Legislative Assembly shall provide by general law tlie manner in which a part of any county may be stricken from such county and added to another county; or formed into a new county. Sec. 4. In all cases of the establishment of a new county, it shall be lield to pay its ratable proportion of all then existing- liabilities of the county or counties from which it is formed, less the ratable proportion of the value of the count> buildings and property of the county or counties from which it is formed. Sec. 5. When any part of a county is stricken from one or more counties and attached to another, the county to which such part is attached shall be liable to pay the ratable proportion of such part of all then existing liabilities of the county or counties from which such part is taken, less the ratable proportion of the value of the county buildings anri prop- erty of the county or counties from which such part is taken. Sec. 0. W hen any county formed from contiguous territory taken from older counties, or when any county to which territory shall be added taken from an adjoining county, shall fail to pay the proportion of in- debtedness of such territory to the county or counties from which it is taken, then it may be lawful for the county from which such territory has been taken to recover from the county so failing to pay, by action at law, the proportion of indebtedness for which it shall be liable, as pro- vided in the two preceding .'•ections. Sec. 7. The Legislative Assembly shall provide by law for the sub- division of the several counties of the State into townships, districts or precincts, of convenient nuniber and size. Sec. 8. The Legislative Assembly shall provide by general law* for the organization and classification of cities and towns. The number of such classes shall n'.it exceed four: and the power of each class shall be limited by general laws, so that all such municipal corporations of the same class shall possess the same powers and be subject to the same restrictions. The Legislative Assembly shall also make provision, by general law, where- by any city, town or village, existing by virtue of any special or local law of the territory, may elect to become subject to and governed by the gen- eral law relating to such cofporation. I'.ounty Officers. Section 9. in each county there shall be elected three county commis- sioners, who shall compose the Board of County Commissioners, and who shall hold sessions for the transaction of county business as provideil by law, any two of whom shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business. The board shall elect one of its members chairman. Sec. 10. The term of office of the County Commissioners shall be four years, except as otherwise piovided for in this Constitution. At the first general election provided for by this Constitution there shall be eli>cted in each county three County Commissioners. The one receiving tlie liigh- est number of votes shall hold his office until the general election in I89(i, zii i'i!n('.i;i;in.\(is AM) dki'.aiks the one receiving the next liiBh(!.st nuniliri' nf votes shall liold his ollii-i- until tile general eleetioii in 1891, and tlie oni' receiving (he lowest nuinhei' of votes shall hold his office until the general elclion ni 1892, and eactj shall hold his office until his successor is elected and qualified. A vacan- cy ill the Board id' (jouiity (loinmissioners shall bi' fdled hy aiipointnieni of the Governor. Sec. 11. There shall be elected in each county the follnwing otficers: One County Clerk, who shall be Clerlv (d thi- Boai-d of County ('uMinussion- cr.s, and ex-officio recorder of deeds; one Stu'i'iff. one Treasurer, wlio shall he collector of taxes; one County Superintendent of Sidiools: one Counl\ Survcyiir: one Assessor; one CorrMier; one Public Administrator. Persons elected to the diffei'ent (jffici's named in this section stiall hold their n?- spective offices tor the term of two years; except that the county officers elected at the first general election provided for in tins constitution, shall liold their offices until tlie general election in 1892, and until tlicir success- ors are elected and qualified, \acancies in all county, townsliip and i)re- ciiict offices, except that mi County Commissioners, shall be filled hy appointment by the Hoard of County Commissioners, and tlie appointee shall hold his olfice until the next general election. Sec. 12. :\o person shall be eligible to any county office unless he he a qualified elector, nor unless he shall have resided in the county at least one year next preceding his election. Sec. 13. The Legislative Assembly shall provide for the election or appointment of such other county, townsliip, precinct and municipal of- ficers as public convenience Miay require, ami their terms of office sliall be as prescribed by law, not in any case to exceed two years, except as in this Constitution otherwise provided. Sec. 14. The compensali.in of all county, township and precinct offi- cers, except as in this Constitution dtherwise provided, sliall be as pre- scribed by law. the Clerk also read report of said Committee as follows: .Mr. Presi- dent, your Committee on City, County and Town Organizations, to whom was referred "extract from Pi'opositioii Ao. 7" introduced by Mr. A. R. .Joy. beg leave to report that ttiey liave had the same under consideration, and respectfully r(Murn same with the recommendation that it he passed. Signed' DAVID (i. BRUW.NE. Chairman. tlif Clerk also read the further report of said Committee as follows: Air. President, your Cominitt'e on City, County and Town Organizations, to whom was referred Resolution No. 6, introduced by .Mr. Goddard of iellowstone, beg leave to rejjort tliat they have had the same under con- sideration, and respecltullv return same without recommendation. (Signed' DAVID G. BROW'.NK, Chairman. I'hi' President: Both of these Resolutions refei'reil to in tlie reports of tlie Committee will take the usual course, and be placed on file, to he considered in Committee of the Whole, with llii' report of the Comiiiitlee to which they were referred. If there be no objection the repiu't of the Conimittee upon the subjects pertaining to City, County and Town Organi- zations will be referred to the Committee on Printing, ami ordered printed. .Mr. Joy, of Park: 1 offer the following report, and ask that it be considered in connei'tion with the majority retiort of t^omiiiittee .No. Ten. The President: I'lie niinority report offered by part of Committee .\o. Ten will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Minority rejiort of Committee on City, (bounty and Town Organizations. Mr. President: A part of your Commit- tee on City, County and Town Organizations, having under consideration Resolution No. 0, introduced by Mr. Goddard, beg leave to report back the same, and reconiiiiend that il be incorporated in our Constitution. (Signed ALLAN R. JOY, L. ROTW riT, W. C. GILLKTTK. Tlie Presidi'iil: this report will lake its ptaci' with tlie iiiajurity report, and be considered in Committee of Ihe Whole. Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis tS: Clarke, seiil up a resolulion which was read by the Clerk as f(dlows: Resolved, that nothing contained m this Consti- tution shall be so construed as to deprive the (ieneral .\sseiiibly of power to autliorize municipal corporations in incur such indebtedness as may be necessary to lU'ocure an ample siipiily of water for such municipality; provided that such waler supply shall be under and controlled jjy said CU.NSriTL llo.NAL CU.W E.M'lo.N l.sxo :'7., inuniciijalitics and tin' revenues derived frmn the same applied to tlie payaient ot the deljt. Tlie President: This resnliil mn will be referred to Committee No. 7, unless otherwise directed by tlie Convention. Mr. A. J. Burns, of Lewis A Clariie, sent up a resolution. The President: Tlie gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. A. J. Burns, offers the following resolution. The Clerk read as follows: Mining Bureau. Kesolution by A. J. Burns of Lewis (.V Clarke. Section I. There shall be established a Mining Bureau and office of Commissioner ot .Mines, the duties and salaries of which shall be prescribed by law. W hen said office of .Mining Commissioner shall be e.--tablislied, the (iovernor shall with the advice and consent of the Senate, appoint thereto a person, known to be competent, whose term of office shall be four years. Sec. 2. The Cieneral Assembly shall provide by law for the proper ventilation of mines, the construction of escapement shafts, and such other appliances as may be necessary to secure the safety and health of the workmen therein. Sec. 3. The Legislature may make such provisions from time to time as may be necessary for the proper and equitable drainage ot mines. Sec. -4. The Legislature shall provide that the science of mining and metallurgy shall be taught in one or more of the institutions of learning in the State. The Presiuent: If there be no objection, the resolution will be re- ceived and referred to Committee No. f3. Mr. Meyers of Yellowstone sent up the following Resolution, which the Clerk read as follows: Resolution. Resolved that no person holding an office of profit under the Lnited States, and commissioned by the Presi- dent, shall, during his continuance in such office, be eligible to be ap- pointed, liold. or exercise any office of profit under this State. The President: If there be no objection, this Resolution will be re- ceived and referred to Committee No. 13. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: Mr. President, under the head of gen- eral orders. 1 move that the Convention resolve itself into Committee of •he Whole for the consideration of general orders. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge uMr. Toolei, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis i^t Clarke: I would like to inquire if there is not a special order for eleven o'clock. The President: I think it was two o'clock this afternoon. There was a special order for yesterday at eleven o'clock for the consideration of File No. 1. There Is no special order for consideration at this hour today. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, I think the records will disclose that on the day before yesterday, the Article on Education was made the special ordei' for eleven o'clock, and that of the Right of Suffrage for two o'clock. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President it is not the Article, but the Resolution relating to School Lands. I understand that is the special order today for eleven o'clock. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: I do not remember of any such order being made, and under the previous Resolution passed by the Convention, this Resolution would be taken up in connection with the report of the Committee on i^ducation, no subject having been more carefully considered by that Committee than the matter of the School Lands. The President: The Clerk informs me that there is no record of any special order for today. Hence, the motion offered by the gentleman from Iteer Lodge is before the Convention that the Convention resolve itself Info Committee of the Whole. I believe the question has been passed upon. I will appoint .Major .Maginnis Chairman of the Committee. 276 PHOCEEDllN'US AND DEBATES IN co.vi.mhtee of the whole. Mr. Magiiinis of Eewis & Clarke in the Chair. The Committee was called to order. The Chairman: The Committee have under eonsideration section 13 ol' Proposition No. 20. Article on Judiciary, i'lie (Merk will proceed with the reading. The Clerk read Section 13 as follows: Sec. 13. Until otherwise pro- vided by law. said districts shall be constituted as follows: First District, J^ewis it Clarke County: Second District. Silver Bow County: Third Dis- trict, Deer Lodge County: Fourtli District, .Missoula County; Fifth Dis- trict, Gallatin County; Sixth District, Jefferson County: Seventh District. Custer County; Eighth District. Beaverhead and Madison Counties: .Ninth District, Park and \ellowstone Counties; Tenth District, Cascade and Meagher Counties; Eleventh District. Fergus aniJ Dawson Counties; Twelfth District, Choteau County. .Mr. Joy of Hark: 1 would like to offer an amendment to Section 13. 'i'he Clerk read the said amendment as follows: Amendment to Sec- tion 13. Strike out in fifth line "and Yellowstone Counties" and renumber the subsequent districts. .Mr. VVitti'r, of Beaverhead: Do 1 understand there is a motion pend- ing? Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I would like to ask lor information. It is my recollection that when the committee had this matter in hand the other evening, that we were considering an amendment offered by Mr. Collins of Cascade. My memory may be at fault. I'he Chairman: The Chair was not present at the time. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: Perhaps 1 can e.xplain this matter, 1 ha\e an aiii(>ndment which I offered, and which I will send up to the (;hair. J<'irst, there was an amendment offered by Mr. Hickman of Madi- son to strike out the word "and" in the fourth line, and then there was a substitute offered by the gentleman from (Cascade which read as follows: "L'ntil otherwise pi'ovided by law, each county in the State shall consti- tute a separate judicial district." The Chairman: The Clerk will read the amendment to the amend- ment, on which till' vote will be first taken. .Mr. Hickman, of Madison: Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw the amend- ment offered by myself. The Clerk read the Substitute of the gentleman from Cascade, Mr. Collins, as follows: "Until otherwise provided by law, each organized county in the State shall constitute a separate judicial district." The Chairman: 'The nrotion to adopt is before the (.Committee. -Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Mr. Chairman, the Conmiittee on Judiciary had provided twelve districts. I thought that if the Committee, in their wisdom, saw fit to divide this great State into twidve districts, that it would be in the interest of good government, and in the interest of eco- nomical government that four more districts should be created, and that each county shauld be raade a district. I believe so still. 1 believe that if you divide this State into twelve districts, it should be divided into a dis- trict for each county in the Territory. 1 believe, if that is your policy, that in doing away with the office of Probate Judge, and the (ilerk of tliat court, and the extortionate tees foi- probate and civil business in that court, that It will be economy to make four more judicial districts. I'lie cost ol the present system, with even tweUe districts, amounts to ahout iiNoi.iKM). .Make four more districts and it will amount to about $(iO,(XK). That is an enormous sum of money, and if any gentleman in this body will propose an amendment consolidating those dislricts into six or seven or eij;hl. 1 will be willing and happy to withdraw my amiMidment; but if you di\ide them into twelve districts, I say it should be divided into sixteen, and give each county a separate district, if you divide it into six, seven or eight districts, then I would withdraw my amendment and bi> in favor of more compact division. .Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, I hope the gentleman will not withdraw the substitute. I am heartily in favor of the substitute, as it has been proposed. 1 have advocated that proposition time and again, and I think when this Convention comes to calmly and clearly con- sider this proposition, that they will come to the same conclusion. Now, there is only one objection that has any force to it whatever, and that is. that nj)pai'ently we are incurring wtiat sei'ins to be a great expense. It CO.NSrn I LIO.NAL CD.W KM'in.N IHSll 277 staggers some of Uio gt'iitleiuen of this Cdiiveiitiiiii wln'ii il is fiyuri'd up. and it is stiowii tliat tins judicial systoiii will cost, by fiivuij; (iiu' jiidgi' to eai'li county, about -^liO.! loil per annum. .Now. I lliink lliat wlicn you lAkf. ivAo consideraliou the whoii- systein. and the I'xpcnsf which will be cut off by that, that it will be seen that Ihis rule is loss expensive than the system which we have now in force in iVU)ntana Territory, and then we will have all the advantages. .Now, under our pi'esent system, there are sixteen judges in .Montana, f^robate Judges, who are receiving some compensation or other. They are ueing paid; they have work to do. In addition to that, tliere are four district judges, making at the present time, twenty judges in Montana Territory, and 1 presume they are all doing something, and all earning what they are paid. .\ow under the present system, as proposed, with one judge in each county there will be sixteen judges, and three supreme court judges, which will make nineteen judges, whereas, under the present system we have now twenty judges. Then, the only valid objection that can be made to this is, that these nineteen judges will cost about ."fiOCOOU. I have not figured up whal it costs at present, but 1 have no doubt that it costs a sum very neai'ly that amount under our present system. Part of tliese four district judges cost the Territory nothing: they are paid by the tiovernment of the United States: and some of the probate judges are paid only by fees. But that comes out of the people. It may not come out in the way of taxes, but the fees that these judges get. and the salaries w'hlch are paid to the district judges by the United Slates, I have no doubt, amounts to almost as much as what is proposed in th.is judicial system. Now, this %ve have virtually adopted, the California system, that provides for a judge in every county. They have abolished the Probate Court, and that is a very important court in this Territory. In the county in which I reside we have a Probate Judge, and a Probate Clerk, who receives a salary of $100 a month. 1 have no doubt the cost of the Probate Court in Silver Bow County, and in Lewis & Clarke County is more than it is in Ueer Lodge County. 1 have no idea of wiiat its cost IS in other counties, but here we are assuming the work now that the sixteen judges are performing and all the different clerks, and that expense is all incorporated in these judicial salaries. Now, that has been found to work to perfection in California, t was living in California when this system was adopted tliere. and I know that the principals, the litigants, and all classes of peopl(> felt that a load had been taken off their shoulders when that Constitution had been adopted, notwithstanding the assertion of the gentlemen here that its constitution was a conglomeration of non- sense: and I will admit that at the time Dennis Kearney, and the "sand- lof orators had sway in San Francisco, that many things were done that perhaps are now^ justly criticised. But in regard to this proposition of the judiciary, that was a proposition that was gotten up, and a system that was framed and formed by the best legal talent in San Francisco, and, I believe, that is equal to Montana, or any other State in the Union. Now, the Chairman of that Committee was one of the ablest lawyers in San Francisco, and in reply to the objection made by the gentleman from .Madison when he says that that is the most expensive system that has ever been organized, that owing to that system California has 10,000 cases on her calendar. I will say that I have read and I will ask leave to read four or five lines as to what Mr. Wilson, the Chairman of lliat Convention, said, in introducing the present system which we are now acting upon. He said, in referring to the business of the old court, a court which was organized very much as the courts of this Territory are now under our present system: "The business of the Supreme Court of the State of California is. I think, larger than that of any Supreme Court in the Ameri- can Union. — larger than the Supreme Court of any other Slate." .\ow. this was from a speech made ten years ago. The report made to the Con- vention by tlie Clerk of the Supreme Court said that "during the four years past^ there have been filed in the court some 2,057 cases, making an im- mense calendar for that time." The Supreme Court did decide during that time some 2,2'i6 cases. Now. that was in a period of three years, and the gentleman has well said that since then the amount of business in the (;alifornia courts has greatly increased; but he charges that to the judici- ary system, whereas everybody knows that the population of California has trebled since that time, and that is only in about the same proportion that the cases we^'e increasing in those courts before. So, I say that the objection to this system amounts to nothing. .-Vnd if we are to have a good judicial system, 1 believe in making it so that the litigants in i»ach '/IS l'H()CEKI)l.\(iS AM) DKHAl'KS county can be justly ruprt'scnled. .Now, wo liave introiluci'd in ttiis pro- \i>:ion a proposil ion, or a section, or a sentence whicli provides that one- half ol the salary of each judge shall be paid by the State. I believe that IS a lair and just proposition. The Judiciary System is not a county sys- tmi, which will be uniforin throughout each county. .Now, 1 venture to say that if any other proposition than this is adopted it will be unfair, for 1 can demonstrate to the minds of this Coinentioii that there will be an unjust tax m regard to the support of the judges, .Now, under this system, we will take the county that has, we will say, .'ti4,00O.0s in that county who would liave been very glad to have taken I be nomination. .And it was understood, and that arrangement was made. Ml llie n(>xt regular election the other county would have the right to make llie nomination. I haripened to be a delegate in both of those Conventions: in the first one when the arrangement was first made, and also in the second one. When the two years carn(> around anil another judge was to be selected, the gentleman who had held IIk^ office krunv that delegates were to he sent to a judicial convention men that wei'e not hound by (he action of any former convention, and they came in and presented a candi- C.O.NSlIll llO.NAl. C.O.WKMIO.N ISSi) .^79 date again. Tlie county which claimed that it was Ihcir turn very prop- erly had a jicntleman whom they desired tor judge, and they wrangleit and wranj;led and quarn'h'ii. and tor two days they balloted to select a judf-'e. -No judge was selected. They went lionie to theu' constituents, new deU's-Mles troni each county were sent, and they came together, and they parted after thii-ly or torty attempts to nonnnate a candidate without aiiy success until it w'as proposed that one member from eacli delegation should go out behind a haystack and toss up a half dollar as to who should he the judge. Kow, that is what you gentlemen are proposing by uniting counties in this convention where they are nearly equal. Vou are proposing, and you will adopt a gambling proposition to select your judge, ami 1 say that IS not right. 1 say to you when you come lo consider the fact that there will be no greater — and 1 thmk that can be clearly shown to this Conven- tion— that the expense of this whole system will not be greater than it is now. -Now. under the lU'esent system, wlien^ we have nne judge in each county, 1 will guarantee that to the County of Deer Lodge this system will be a saving of !iil5,000 a year on one item. I am told by the County Com inissioners of Deer Lodge County that they pay Sl.Tttlf a month ior the support of the prisoners in our jail. .\ g^reat majority of those prisoners are kept there, are bound over to appear before the (irand Jury, anil a few are held for the serving out of terms for misdemeanors. But there will be more than .^LOOO a month saved to Hie County of Deer Lodge under Ihis system which we propose to inaugurate, and so although it may ap- pear that a larger tax is levied, and it will be — if we are going to form a State (iovernment we have got to make these otTices and pay for them: you will get no support from the Government of the United States — and "there will be apparently a larg(>r tax for State purposes. But when you come to cut dnwn expenses in county taxes, they will not be so large. 1 apprehend that in organizing tins State, at the present rate, we pay two mills on the d(dlar, that is, pay into the treasury. Kow, if we are going til carry on government offices, there have got lo be executive officers, and 1 beliexe in paying good salaries. 1 believe in setecting men who can perform the duties creditably. 1 do not believe m this idea of saying. "make a salary of .lil.OiH) and you can get a man to fill it." I do not believe that IS the proper method of selecting officers. .Now I am in favor of even larger salaries than are pro\ided for in this Constitution, but after talking with the more conservative members on the Judiciary Committee, I was perfectly satisfied to leave Ihein as they are. And T will say right here that 1 believe that most of the gentlemen that w'ere on that Committee when this proposition was adopted, were in favor of each county having its own judgv. provided each county wanted one; they were in favor of letting these counties, where they desired it, to be united, and in that way saving a few dollars. But the only question with the members on tlie Committee was, that to make the salaries higher and to make more dis- tricts would give the people a chance to say that the lawyers were making these districts for their own benefit. Ao, 1 do not believe there is an idea in the minds of any solitary man on the Committee of that kind: 1 think all were inspired witli motnes of honesty and honor in organizing a system which they thought would be for the advantage of the peo|ile. and if law- yers should be benefitted why not them as well as anybody else. If they should receive more business, I think it is proper enough lawyers should receive their benefits. But, I say, that that idea never entered the heads of any members of that Cnmmiltee. And so. I Hunk when this matter is fully discussed from all standpoints. I do honestly believe, that every mem- ber of this Convention will say that this amendment offered by the gen- tleman from Cascade is the best and will be the most serviceable to the people, and 1 strongly support the propsition of the gentleman from Cas- cade. .Mr. Parberry, of Meagher: I liavi' been lislening with a good deal of interest to the eloquent speech of the gentleman fnun Deer Lodge: yet 1 am of the same opinion still that the substitute offered by the gentleman from Cascade ought not to be incorporated in this Constitution. 1 came here In attend to the business of the people of Meagher County the same as 1 would attend to my own individual business, and if I can have the same service done, and done right, for .^3.000 that I can have done for S9,000, I certainly would do it: and I am perfectly satisfied that three of the smaller counties can be united in one judicial district, and the judgi> would be competent lo attend to all the business in those three counties just as well as one. The substitute that 1 havi> offered there to Section i:;. is 2m phockkuim;:? and ukbates based upon tlic |)npulat.ion of those several districts, taken from the re- ports of the auditor and treasurer of this Territory. I find that m Lewis & Clarke County in 1888 there was a vote of 6,00f ; and Silver Bow County 7,225; and L)eer Lodge County, 5,400 and something; in Missoula. 3,600. .Now. 1 helieve that those four counties are entitled to a judge on account ol the- vote polled in 1888. iNow if you will take the vote of Deer Lodge, Jef- ferson and Madison, and put them all together, they are not equal to the vote of either Lewis A Clarke or Silver Bow Counties. If you will take the vote then of Meagher, Kallalin and Park, you will find that those three are not equal. Vou may take iellowstone, Custer and Dawson, and they are not equal; they are away below. Well, then, you have Cascade, Cho- teau and l^'ergus, and that is only 4,400; and it divides up in that way. iSow, .Missoula, it is true, is the smallest, being only 3,600, but being situ- ated in the extreme Western portion of the Territory, we could not well join it with another county. This makes eight judicial districts, and I think one judge can well attend to all the business in any one. As regards the State paying for half of these salaries, 1 can look al that in no other light than that of a man putting his hand in his left-hand pocket, or put- ting It into the right-hanil pocket tfi pay a bill. We ha\e indirectly to pay it. It is true, there is a little advantage to these counties that pay a large amount; but now take Dawson County, where there is a vote of 400 and something. There is Custer of 900. .\ow, both county seats being lo- cated on the line of the railroad, so that you can go from one county seat to the other on the railroad, I think that one judge can attend to that dis- trict; and that substitute that I have offered there to section 13 is made with the view of facilitating the getting from one county seat to another, and IS based upon the vote of 1888, so as to get at the average of the busi- ness to be done in each district. Mr. Hartman. of Ciallatin: Mr. Chairman. I do not intend to occupy but a very few minutes in reply to the gentleman from Deer Lodge. There were one or two propositions advanced by him that do not seem to me to be in accordance with- reason. In the first place, from the tenor of his remarks, he seems to indicate that those persons who are opposed to the single county system for a district are also in favor of retaining the pro- bate courts, i do not believe that there is a man on the floor who advo- cates the consolidation of those districts who is in favor of retaining the probate courts, and therefore insofar as the salaries are concerned, our system is the same as his. Where we differ is in the distribution of them. He wants to distribute this money to three or four judges where we want to distribute it to one. We want to distribute it to eight judges throughout the State. He wants twelve when eight will do the work. iS'ow, there is another proposition about it. It is an easy thing for gentlemen to rise up on their feet here and declare that a certain system is an economical system; it is another thing to demonstrate it. He has absolutely failed in every particular to show a single item of saving. Let us see from what sources expenses are made in the management of courts. In the first |)lace, there is the salary of the judge. By our system we have a saving there. In the second place, there is the payment of the Sheriff's fees. In our system, we are on exactly the same footing. The third, the payment of jurors: our system is on the same footing with his. Witnesses are in the same condition. Therefore, there is but one item left, and that is the question of the payment of mileage to judges. 1 have heard it asserted here in private coiuersation by members of this coinenlion thai the mili^- age of judges gomg between the two or three counties which may be situ- ated in a district, woiikl equal the salary of the judge. Why, genllemen, it is absurd to say a thing of that kind. In the first place, if you put three counties in one district, and they are properly distrihiifed with regard to their geographical location, there will not be a greater dislanci' than 500 miles between the fai'thest county seats of the respective* counlies. 'I'lial being the case, that would make 1000 miles travel for the judge for each term. Supposing there are four terms a year; let us admit there are five; there are 5000 miles to be traveled by the judge. Now. as to mileage, the law allows 15 cents per mile; let us admit he will be paid 20 cents jier mile: (here you have ifitOOO mileage. Now is ifUHX) equal to !?;m0O? If it is, then the gentleman's argument holds good; if it is not, then his ai'gument is fallacious. Now, upon the (juestion of this argument about the State jiay- ing half of the salary, why. it is silly to make an argument nf that kind, to say that it does not afterward come out of the people. Wlm Iviniishes the monev Ihal goes Into the state treasury? Why. the taxpayer. CUlNSTITUTlOAAL CO.W E.MK ).\ 1889 ^81 (icnllciiioii of tilt' (.'onvpulion wo an' iiol here to coiilcr a lavor upon llie people ol any county. We are tiori' to coiilcr equal bt'iiclils and equal liurdens upon every citizen of lliis great 8tate. and when a gentleman gets upon the floor here for tile purpose of saying that he proposes Lo confer a special faxor upon the people of some particular district as against some othei- district, I say he is advocating a doctrine that is per- iiiciiius and IS opposi'd to the very principles upon which our go\ernment I.- founded and upon which all of our institutions are controlled. I belong to one of the smaller counties myself and our people would reap a benefit: but. gentlemen of the convention, I do not believe m it as a matter of prin- ciple, and although it may be a benefit to our people, 1 shall oppose that kind of a system. .Now, as to the question that was raised here by the gentleman from Deer Lodge as to the difference which might ixissibly arise between the members of different conventions who had met to nom- inate iiK'ii In the various judgeships, I do not suppose it is necessary to reply to it at all. 11 had no more application to the question than if he liad quoted a 1-ourth (d' July oration or the Sermon on the Mount. I am opposed lo ttiis system of' creating more districts than are necessary, l^el us, as 1 said the other night, furnish sufficient districts to suit the present conditions: then furnish an expansive system whereby the Legisla- ture can provide additional judges whenever the demands of the people require it. .Mr. (ioddard, of \ellowsti)iie: i wi?li lo inquire if an auieudment is in order at this time. The Chairman: .No sir. Mr. Di.xon, of Silver Bow: I desire to say on behalf of the judiciary committee that there was a good deal of difference between them in re- gard to the division of the Slate into districts. Tlie proposed section re- ported here was suggested and reported not so much really as a recom- mendation of the Judiciary Committee, but as a basis upon which the Convention might act in luially fixing the division- of the State into dis- tricts. i\ow, so far as 1 am concerned, and 1 think I represent the senti- ments of the Judiciary Conimitlee, 1 would be \ery glad to see this matter of the districts settled so that every county would be satisfied with tlie place assigned it: but I know that that is impossible. I would be in favnr (d' this system of allowing every county to be a district by itself if it were not for the consideration of what 1 deem unnecessary expense which would be incurred thereby. So far as I am concerned, 1 believe the report of the Committee itself provides for more districts than are necessary. Ihere are twelve in number according to this report. 1 think myself that eiglit, or at Ihe outside nine, are all that are required; and I agree sub- stantially with what I understand to be the substitute proposed to be offered by the gentleman from .Meagher as to the constitution of the dis- tricts and the counties which it is proposed to put together. .Now. w"e must consider this thing from a general point of view. It is not only with ref- erence to the interest and convenience of particular counties, but it is with reference to all the people of Ihe State who are to be affected at least in the matter of taxation by what may be done in the arrangement of Lliese districts. .Now, 1 have no doubt that even in the smallest county in the territory it would be a saving nver the present system to allow that county to have a judge. In ttre saving of the probate judges salary ami in the saving of other expenses that are now incurred. 1 think the county would at least lose nothing. But that is not the proposition liere. 1 mean to say that the county could take itself half of the salary which It would be required to pay without any loss to itself: but the other half has got to be paid by the State if that provision in this article as reported IS to be adopted; and as to that, it seems to me it is necessary to consider whether or not that can be saved. As has been well said here, il seems to me a proposition so self-evident that it is not necessary to argue the fact, that If you can get the same service as well performed for -laOOO.Ofl there is nn necessity of paying the sum of $9(KX).00 for it. .Now. I take it, Mr. Chairman, that we have got to come to a realization of this fact, and we may as well look at it right now as at any other time. We have got to watch as carefully as w-e can every provision in this constitutinn to see that no unnecessary expense is incurred in the support of the State gov- ernment. We are going into a new and necessarily more expensive sys- tem than we have been accustomed to and we must guard every question that comes up against any unnecessary expense being imposed upon our •M2 i'ii()(:i';i':i)i,\(is ami dkhai'ks .«latc, liecausf that r\|iciisi' has got lo bf nicl Ijy taxatidii whidi lalirs llic inoiioy diri'ctly Iroin tlir pi-nijlc. .Now, it srcius tci uir tliat In iii'oijiisr In provide a judi^c fur I'acli county when thei'c is no Ijusini'ss ni llial i'iiuiit\- to require it, when tliat judgi' in two or llirci' nuinths in tin' year cnuid dii all that is necessary to be done and the rest ot the time woi'ild be idli'. is not only incurring an unnecessary expense, but it is a bad iirecedcni. I bclic\(> m paying evei'v person a fair salary for liis services, but I would require him to do work in return. 1 do not believe in giving any man a sinecure; 1 do not bcliexe it would be good for the judge. l>el a judgi' in one of these counties dispose of his business in sixty days and let hiin loaf th(^ r(>st of the time and he would become in I he course of a year so demoralized that he would not be qualified for the office: he would not have employment enough to keep him in good mental h(>altli; he would retrograde. And what is the use oi emiiloymg a judge to do such a small amount of work whi-ii he can with a saving to the State and with more Itenelit to hiniseit. pertorm the same duties in three counties. It seems t(i be entirely unnecessary to incur such a useless expense. Now, I want to see this judicial system liave a fair trial. I do not want to see it bur- dened down at the start with so many and such unnecessary expense as that the people will throw it aside, altributing to the system what would properly be attributed to its administration, neither in the judicial depart- ments nor in any other. A'ow, you lake this matter with regard to the salaries, ttere are half of the salaries provided to be paid by the State. As I said before, tlie county may come out even on paying its half but for that half paid by tlie State there is a contribution levied on every taxpayer of the state. It makes no difference to the taxpayer whether he pays so much in county tax or so much in state tax or whatever else you may call it. it all comes out of his pocket, ami the man in Dawson county will pay just the amount ol state tax that the man in Lmvis and Ciai'ke county will. Here are three counties which niiglit be put together in which one judge can attend to all the business. He will be paid, say $cJOO(). Kow, it is proposed by some in- stead of that to pa\- -tifiOOO. I'here is a saving, putting this in one county, of $3tHiO to the stale alone besides, it will be a saving to the county. In one case, tlie county will pay .f 1.500; if there are three counties, it will be in proportion which would be .^'SOO each. There is a saving to the state in the same way; it is a saving in both ways: and certainly it seems to me a very extravagant and unnecessary idea to leave these counties separate whatever convenience it may leail to. Of course, there are conveniences whieti are nice and pleasant and that we like to have, but we all know that in our own private affairs, it is a rule, 1 believe, that we all have to have things that are not exactly wliat we would like but what we are able and can afford to pay for. This judicial system proposed here, with a judge for each county at the salaries proposed would make over ^.jO.OiUl for district judges besides -firLOOO for Supreme (iourl judges. Under the proposed arrangement, .$40,0(10 would lie |iaid by I lie stall'. Well, no\\-. just for the single item of judicial salaries in one year there would lii> an expense to tlie state, let alone the counties which we need iiol eonsiiler. ol •■fiO.OOO. Kow. would not the people have a right to say thai for the ail- ministration of one deiiartment of governnieiil that was a great burden for a new Stale to assume? When ttiey looked the matter ovi'r and tound there were three judges appointed wliere one might tiave done- the ser\ - ice. would not the peojile be inclined to say. '■^ou gentlemen, in creating such a system as this may have had in view the riglits of the people and the saving of taxation, but you had more regard to the coiniMiience and prejudices and wishes of certain smaller counties than you liad for Hie interest and concerns of the people of the state." 1 hope, Mr. Chairman, that tins amiMidment to make each county a judicial district will he defeated: and as I said before. I am in favor sub- stantially, if I understand tlie nialter. id' Hie substitute which I beliexc lias not but I think is intended to Uv projiosed liy the gentleman from Meagher county. Mr. Rickards of Silver How: 1 understand there lias Ik^cii an anii'iid ment sent to the desk. I woulil like to have it read. The Chairman: Tlie clerk will read for information Hie anieiidnient of the gentleinan Irom .Meagher Mr. I'arherry winch, liowexer. is not 111 order at tlie pi-esent lime. CU.NSTITLI'IO.NAL CU.WE.NTION 1889 28;J Mf. J. H. Iciiile: .Mr. CIimuiikui, 1 wi^^h to ask if ;i mutidii tn [■I'lcr this section would bi- in older. The (^hairnum: 1 do not think that molioii would ln' in oidiT at this lime. The Committee would have to rise. -Mr. Kifkards, of Silver Bow: Where doctors disagree, a layman, I suppose, shoulil not presume to tread. I have been very highly enter- tained and edilied liy the controversy we have had over this seclion. We heard the other evening alioul the musical bray of the Rocky .Mountain donkey; we heard about having to accept one of Iwo horns of an unmen- tionable name; we heard about mandamuses and other profane things, but 1 rise to my feet to emphasize if 1 can what has been said by thf gentleman from .Meagher .Mr. Parberry , the gentleman from (iallalin .Mr. Hartman . and the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. Dixon m turn. and from a business man's standpoint I want to say that I feel we had better take a conservative view of this matter. Most generally, I can heartily endorse any proposition offered by my friend from Cascade .Mr. trollins , but m this matter 1 feel that he is not up to the usual stamlard of his excellent judgmenl. .Now. unfortunately, tlie impression is getting abroad that we are sitting here dealing offices for the office seeker, and I think we bad better be a little caieful lest we give color to this impres- sion. 1, for one. do not believe this is the sentiment of this body. .Never- theless, we have heard mullermgs of a distant storm in that directoon. .Now, 1 believe that one of these aniemlments should be adopted. I am free to conless that 1 am not quite clear as to wliich one would be the better to adopt, but I am certainly in favor of tlie adoption of one of these amendments making either seven or eight districts in lieu of the original section; and I. lor one. was pleased to hear Mr. Dixon, the chairman of this committee, mention that in liis judgment we can safely adopt a fewer number rather than a larger number; and it does seem to me that the argument advanced by my friend from (iallatin -Mr. Hartman the other evening and today is unanswerable. 1 have heard several members who are members of the legal profession and who have an accurate knowledge of the courts where they practice, say that there is not enough work in the districts as cut out in this report ot the Committee to furnish employment for these judges, and that they W'Ould have to go fishing or do something else to occupy their time, ^'ow, 1 submit to you, gentlemen of the Committee, that we are not here for the purpose of furnishing men emiiloyment that Ihey may have time to go fishing. .\s a business man I can find very litde time for such amuse- ments, and 1 do not believe our constituents will iMidorse us if we, for the sake of satisfying a little local pride — and I do not speak disrespectfully when 1 say this, but I know that the temptation is strong in that direction, to gratify a little local pride that "our county" — Park County, if you please — may be set off and made a judicial district. 1 know* it is some- thing to be able to say when we go hoini> lo our constitutents "See we ob- tained for you a district.' .Now, then, let us set aside this little local pride and legislate for the en- tire Slate, and saying this I heartily endorse what Mr. Dixon said in this direction, and 1 do hope that one of these amendments w'lll prevail, and without yielding the floor for the moment, 1 would like to ask for the reading again of that amendment as offered by .Mr. (ioddard. The Clerk read the amendment for the information of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: I beieve. .Mr. Chairman, all things considered as 1 unilerstand the geography of tin' territory and the needs of these respective counties, that the substitute as offered by the gen- tleman from .Meagher .Mr. Parberry is the better one, and until I have been convinced to the contrary, I shall support his amendment. -Mr Clark of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman, when the judiciary report was read and it w«as stated that this XfiTi'^O' or State was to be dis- tricted into twelve districts, it seemed to me then that they had made a very fair and liberal division in this matter; but since listening to the discussions that have been had upon this floor and the informa- tion derived from learned gentlemen from various sections of the terri- tory— by Col. Callaway. Mr. Hartman and others— that in these various counties which they represent, a judge might dispose of all the busi- ness in the county in a few monllis and have Ihe rest of the lime to L'84 I'HOCEKDI.NGS AM) DKBAI'K!^ go fishing, 1 am L'k'ai'ly conviiici'il that tlic luimbcr iniMilioinMl by Ihr ri'Iinrt, is fiitiroly loo large, and hence 1 liope ttie amendnii'nl ollVrnl bv this gentleman will not prevail. 1 am in favor of one of the amend- n'ieiits tliat have been offered: 1 have otTered one myself. 1 am in favor of culling It down to at least nine districts, and I believe that the admin- istration of justicr can be Iboroughly effected by cutting this State into nine judicial districts or perhaps less. I doubt if less will accomplisli the purpose, for the reason. 1 believe, that the district justices have Jurisdiction in probate matters: but 1 think it may very properly be cut down to lime districts and thereby save the salaries of seven district judges in the State, which will amount to at least $30,000, one-half of which, 1 understand, is to be paid by the State. INow, 1 am in favor of saving SIX or seven districts and taking some of this mtmey and paying these judges that shall preside m the remaining districts better salaries, and thereby procuring better services for the State than would other- wise be done by allowing each county to have a district and a judge. Vou will be unable, in my opinion, for the salaries provided in some of these counties, .$3300 or .$31300, to get competent men to take the positions, and I do not believe in providing places for fledglings from some law school, or putting men upon the bench to dispense justice in this State that are incapable of doing it. Hence I shall oppose the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade. .Vlr. (lOddard of NeMowstone; \\ ticu I proposed the substitute I did it with some knowledge of the business of the several counties wliich were grouped in judicial districts. Kor instance, m the counties of Yellow- stone, Custer and Uawson, 1 think 1 have, sufficient knowledge of the business of those counties to be advisfMl on that subject, and I under- take to say that any good, energetic judge who can be selected from some of those counties in that district could perform all of the duties of the judge of that district and liave plenty of time as has been said, to go fishing or to play "se\en-up" behind a hay stack, as I have heard it suggested by the gentleman from Deer Lodge. Now, in relation to Cascade. Choteau and r'ergus, the same proposition is true there. I do not believe that any of those counties has had a term of court lasting over two weeks, and admitting that each of those counties would havr a two weeks term of court al every sitting, the judge's time would not lie occuiiied more than half of the year, and the same I believe would be true in (iallatin, Meaglier and Park, and alsci in the district which is composed of Jeflerson. Ma(tison and Beaverhead. In arranging thi\se counties, 1 have had regard to the convenience of getting to and from the county seats of the several counties forming the districts. It will be convenient in the district in which 1 live for a judge residing at Miles City or even Billings or (ilendive, to reach all of the county seats in his district by rail, and in the fifth district, composed of Choteau. CTascade and J''ecgus, that is true with reference to Cascade and Fergus, or Cascade and Choteau: and as a matter of fact, the mode of travel to Fergus county would be just as convenient from Choteau as from any other point II is the same with the seventh district. Composed of Jefferson. Madison and HeaM'i'bead. 'I'here is a railroad now being constructed from (iallatin city t(p Butte whicli will 1 believe reach some point over in Madison couiit>'. I'ony or some other place there which is about forty miles from the county seat and which will be a convenience in that ri'spect to the jiidgi'. Beaverhead county can be reached by way of Butte over that new railroad winch will bi' constructed befin-e any term of court Is held in that couu- t\. So far as convenience is concerned, it seems to me that the proposi- tion which I liaxe made here is the best. I entirely agree with the gentleman from .Meagher (i)r. Parberryi in relation to the districts he lias mapped out in his iii'0)iositioii, with the exception of one or (wo. I brljcx-e. tlial all things taken into consideration, the giMigraphy of the country, facilities for travel etc.. it will lie found that the proposition 1 have submitted will be more convenient -to the judges: and so far as the mileage is concerned. I do not understand that any provision of the constitution or' the judiciary act as rejiorteit by the judiciary committee, contemplates any mileage for the judges: and in \ iew of ttiat fact, I would be in favor (d' paying tliese judges a larger salary than lias been ri'ported. 'J'liese .judges having a (flstrict of three counties ought to have a salary of S'lOOO. Ilie same as these ottiei' counlies. Wliile I do not believe the amount ol business in (tie illi, .")th. lith. and 7th districts wmild amount to as mucb CO.NSTITL IIO.NAL CO.W K.MIO.N IKSil 285 a> Lewis i*c Clarke county or Silver Bow County, yet I believe ttie judges would he kept busy inasmueli as they would have to travel considerably to reach their county seats; and 1 believe in that case they should have the same salaries as are allowed in Silver Bow and Lewis & Clarke couiilii's. .Now 1 heartily concur with what tias been said by the gen- tleman from Silver Bow, .Mr. t)i.\on. and his colleague, .Mr. Rickards. and others, in regard to the expense of this matter. 1 have recently returned from eastern .Montana and have talked with my constiluteiits m that part of the territory not only m my district but in the district which is rep- resented by the worthy gentl(Mnan from Park county, and I believe it is the sense of the people of those districts that this Convention shall form district's composed of two or three counties, or a sufficient number of counties to give the judge something to do. I believe, as the gentleman from Siher Bow .Mr. Dixon) said, it w"ill make a better judge of a man if he is kept busy. His mind wll be occupied; he will have something to think about; and he will be a better judge. Take any lawyer in this territory and put him upon the bench and furnish him only business enough to occupy half of his time, and at the end of the term of his office he will neither be a judge nor a lawyer; he will be a loafer and nothing else. -Now. 1 am not in favor of r-ncouragmg loafers among lawyers; I hero are enough of them now. Laughter Now. my friend from Park county has some reason, i apprehend, for wishing his county to have a separate district, but i do not believe his constitutents down there will carry him out in the proposition he has made to this Convention. I do not say this with any intention of reflection upon the integrity of the gentelman, but simply upon his pride in this matter. .Now. if he is so an.xious to be a county to himself. I am in favor of attaching him to the Crow Indian Reservation for judicial purposes. iLaughter . -Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move that the Committee do now rise, re- port progress and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer (.Mr. Burleigh, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. L\ . C().NVE.\T1().\ President Clark in the Chair. Tlie Convention was caled to order -Mr. .Maguinis of Lewis & Clarke; -Mr. President, the Commiltee of the Whole has been in session, has had under consideration the article on judiciary, report progress and ask leave to sit again. The President; The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole re- ports that they had under consideration the article on judiciary. The Committee reports progress and asks for leave to sit again. If there be no objection, leave will be granted. Air. Burleigh of Custer; 1 move that tln^ Convention ilo now take a rest until two o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer ;.Mr. Burleigh, the same was declared carried and the Conven- tion took a rest until two o'clock P. .M. Wednesday. July 24. 1889. .\fternoon Session. The Convention was called to order by the President at 2 P. .M. I'he Clerk called the roll .Mr. Burleigh of Custer; Mr. President. I move that the Conven- tion do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole and resume the consideration of the report of the judiciary committee. The motion was seconded. .Mr. A. K. Burns of l^ewis & Clarke: I would like leave of absence until to-morrow evening. The President: If there be no objection, the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke will be excused until to-morrow evening. i:«() PHUCEEDIiNCiS AM) DEBATES Mr. Hartinan ol' tiallatin: I wmtld call the altcntioii of the Con- vt'iitioii to the lact that tlicre is a special unler lor two o'clock. Mr. Magiiiiiis ol' Lewis ..V Clarke: 1 would suggest that the s|ji'cial order be poslpoiied. 1 lliiiik it wcmld be belter to dispose of these various subjects while the allenlioii and interest ol' the Convention is upon them. the action of the Convention in going into Ccjinniith'r ul ||ic Whoh; on the judiciary would siniii)ly postpone the special order. The (;hair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. tSui'leighj and the same was declared carried. The President: Will the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Magiii- iiis. kindly resume the Chair. l.N COMMITTEK OK HIE WHOLE. .Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke, iii llie Chair. the Committe was called to order. The Chairman: The motion before the linuse is on the substitute of- fered by the gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins i The Clerk will read the substitute. Till' (.;ierk read as follows: t>ubstitule for Section 13. "Liitil olberwise pnixided b\ law, each organized couutv in the state shall constitute a separate judicial dis- trict." Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Mr. Chairman, 1 hapiien to have the honor tn be placed on the judiciary committee, and I concur fully in the state- ment of the worthy chairman of that Comniittee that the recommendation of the Committee jn regard to the division of the districts was regarded rather as a suggestion than as a positive r(>commendation to the Con- \enlioii for Us consideration. While I confess that 1 was partial, and am still partial, to the systi'in of making each county an independent judicial ilislrict, and believe it would be in the interest of economy, 1 did not come to Ibis Ciinvention for the purpose of setting up my nwn ideas or m>- own will ngamst Ihat of the majorily of the Convention. What 1 want, and always liaxe wanted of this Convention, is Ihat il should calmly and deliberately determine upon one thing which I am set upon, and I am willing to let all subordinate questions yndd to Ihat paramiiunt iiriii- ciple, and that is that we have a governmeid d llie ijeople, a goNcrn- menl for the people, and a government by the ])i'oiile: a government whiidi shall secure the greatest amount of protection to life, liberty and pro|ierty, and guarantee the greatest measure of happiness to Ihe peo])!e. If 1 get that, 1 will be satisfied. I have no idea that there is a gentle- man upon the floor of this Convention who differs with me in regard to this abstract proposition, but there will be a difference of opinion in regard to the necessary measures to carry it into effect. I have advo- cated the creation of each separate county into a judicial district from the fact that 1 thought it would be a great step in the direction of in-on- omy ovei- the jiresent sysleni of territorial government: but as has been suggested by my friend from Meagher county, and by the worthy chair- man ot the judiciary commitlee, it may be that we can go a step farther, 'the firs) object of a judiciary at all is to provide for Ihe adjustment, Ihe seltliMiienl of all matters of litigation, 1 think Ihat priiici|)le shoulil be held closely in mind by every member of the convention. We want to provide a system thai, will give us a speedy and an adequate remeily al law in our courts of justice, and nothing .should be allowed to inler- fere with that. Now, I am told. In some of the counties of this terri- tory—I wont vouch for it, bul I give the information as I get it— I will lake .Missoula county for instance — that lliere has not been a civil case tried tbi're liir over a year or two, ami lliere are two or three luiii- dreil cases iiii the ildcket. Missoula county is ccinnected with several olliei- counties m Ihe administration of jus! ice. 1 am lold tlial in Silver How County il is the same. I [)resiime il is in consei|uence of Ihe great amount (d' ('riminal business Ihat the courl has to atlend to. 1 am also infiirmed that in some of these oilier counties whose ilocUels are over- loaded with civil business, thai there have been no civil cases of any kind tried. .\ow if lliis be so, it is a strong argument in favor id' dividing our districts in such a way that a sjieedy adjudication of the matters in con- troversy in our coiirl.s will be assured, 1 know Ihat in our comity there are soiiie IwiMitv cases on Ihe docket that have beiMi held there since CU.NSJIll I ID.NAl. i;il.\\ K.\ IID.N ISSH Ml l!>«ji. 1 do uot say il is lln- lau"ll of tin' judiiMaiy iii all cases,- because 1 can cite inslancos where the partifs have imt been ready to proceed with the trial. We have had live oi- six judges since those cases have been put on the docki't. and it is lair lo presume that these gentlemen who have heen sent here by the government to dispense justice to the "benightftl inhabitants ot Muntaiia' have not been fishing or idayiiig ■ seveu-up behind a hay stack as has been suggested here. 1 beliexc tliey are as honest men as were ever sent inlo any country. Ut course, we wiil have a constant immigration of lawyers as well as other people into this country. 11 reminds me of the man who said. I think wc will have a better condition of tilings because ranch eggs are coming in. Ul' course, I can pretend that they will b*- superior in point of legal ability. Now. if eight districts are sufficient and eight judges sufficient to transact the business of the district courts here and bring our record up to the present time and wipe off the docket all these old cases, that is all 1 want. 1 do not want men appointed to office here who are to go off nine months in the year and become demora.lized by haxing nothing to do. 1 take It. there is no hoiioiable member of the profession who would do that, and 1 do not think there is any danger (d them becoming de- mented by not having to take care of business. 1 lake it that men who are on the lieiich find enough to do in looking up authorities anil study- ing over their decisions, so as to relieve as far as possible the docket of the supreme court of the territory. If the measure which I have been partial to does not meet with the apinoval of the majority of this Convention. 1 will most certainly second and support the measure of my friend from Meagher count> Or. Parberrv >. We will leave il in the hands of the legislature and if the legislature finds that eight judges cannot do the business, they shall have the power to increase those judges. Now. these are my views stated fairly and squarely; aad so far as the popular clamor of the people is concerned. I care nothing about it. My constit- uents sent me here not at my request, not at my own bidding, to do what I thought was right, and I will do my duty after my own measure and according to my own conscience, and 1 will undertake to be responsible to them. 1 hope the matter will receive the deliberate consideration of the (Convention, and that we will not provide one more district or cne more judge than is absolutely necessary for the full and faithful administration of justice in the districts of this territory. The question was called for. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cascade Mi: Collins and the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The next amendment is the amendment of the gentleman from Park Mr. Joy to strike out of the fifth line "and Yellowstone county' and renumber the subsequent districts. The Chair put the question on the amendment (d' the gentleman from t'ark Mr. Joy and the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The next ijroposition before the Convention is the proposition of the gentleman from Meagher county Dr. Parberry foi' which the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Clark offers a substitute, the gentleman from \ellowslone .Mr. Goddard also offers a substitute. I suppose they should be read together. Mr. Bicklord of .Missoula: .Mr. Chairman, speaking for my own county and speaking with a partial knowledge at least of the needs of .Missoula county. I will say with reference to the amendment offi'i-ed by the gentleman from .Mi'agher county, that it seems to fit the wants and necessities of our section better than any other. We have a ctmnty which if joined with Deer Lodge would make a judii-ial district having a larger number of inhalntants. a larger amount of taxable property anil a lart:er volume of legal business than any other district in I he ter- rdory. It is impossilile. or at least impracticable for our county to be joined with Jefferson in a judicial district. We are situated on the westei'n extremity of the terrilory in a place where it is almost impos- sible for us to be joined to any other county for judicial purposes, except It be to Oeer Lodge. 1 am reliably informed by the representatives from Deer Lodge county that they have a sufficient volume of judicial taisiness to engage the attention of Deer Lodge county. 1 think, taking into consideration the present condition of our docket, that by the lime the judge would calch up with tlie business now upon the docket, Ihal the growth of .Missoula county would warrant us in asking for a 2«8 PHUCEEI)l.\(iS AM) DKBATKS separate judicial district; aiul inasiniicli As it is m tlie L-ontcinplatKjn ot llus constitution dial the iegisialure sliall have autlionty to enlarge the number (if districts or change the houiKtaries ttiercot, it seems to me it would be the pad ot wisdom at this time to ask tliat .Missoula county be made a separate judicial district. This 1 believe, is the position taken by the gentleman from Meagher county, and I certainly desire at this time to support the amendment offered by him: and I support it not because I think in time perhaps every county in the territory will not be a judi- cial district, because I believe with the growth of our population, with I he growth of business, it will become necessary in time to have a judi- cial district for each county in the state. 1 am also told by one of the memliers of our board of county commissioners who is a member of this body, that rluring the past year in Missoula county it cost the county 111 the neighborhood of !t!60d0. to pay the board of prisoners in the county jail. If this IS Irup, we can save at least the amount that would be al- lowed a district judge, in that item alone, by having a speedy trial of these cases that are delayed from time to time in the courts of the county, i believe that so far as Missoula county is concerned, it will be a measure of economy, and it would be the part of wisdom to make it a separate judicial district. .\lr. Clark (jf Silver Bow: 1 would like to ask the gentleman what the condition of the docket is in this county. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: 1 am not prepared to say. I know that there are a great many civil cases on the docket, and there are at this time in the county jail twenty or twenty five prisoners charged with felony. These men are there at the expense of the county at the present time. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I would like to hear the substitute of the gentleman from Meagliei- read. The Clerk read the same. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairiiuiii. when I offered my amend- ment. 1 had not heard this read. 1 Ihcrclnre withilraw my own amend- ment as this suits me better. The Chairman: I'hat will reduce the propositions before Ihe Conven- tion to two. .Mr. Goddard of \ellowstooe: I beg to say that my motion embodies almost the same proposition as that of the gentleman from Meagher county (Dr. Parberryi. I am wilUng that the proposition which I presented jidning .Missoula and Deer l.,odge counties shall be amended so that those two counties shall be separated and tliat, each of them shall have a ju- dicial district; and if the amendment of the gentleman from .Meagher con- templates that, 1 will withdraw my amendment. The Chairman: The Committee will vote upon the proposition of- fered by the gentleman from .M(>agher county (Dr. Parberry . Mr. Joyce of Jefferson: .\s I understand that proposition, il includes the county of Jefferson in one of tliese districts. The Clerk read the proposition for the information of the gentleman. Mr. Joyce of Jefferson: Mr. Chairman, 1 am opposed to the sub- stitute which IS offered by tlie gentleman from Meagher because in Ihe first place, i believe the county of Jefferson js entitled Ui have a district judge: that it is just as much entitled to have Ibis district judge as any other of the districts which have been snlistituti^d in that report. The county of Jefferson is now llie fifth couiily oi the leci'ilorv in pop- ulation, according to the last vote, according In the \ote of th'e election last fall, and it reall> has a much larger poimlation than is stiown hv that vole. But leaving that out of considei-ation, the county of Jeffer- son lias a taxable property greater now than llii' county of .Missoula. We will have before this year is ended •I^.'jOO.iHKi or $000,000 more of as- sessalile jiroperlx- Irom the railroads tliat are now b(Mng luiilt in tile county. I think that the county will he abundanlly able to suppoi'l a dis- trust judge, and not only able to support a district judge, hut 1 believe it will save the people of that county expense in liaMiig a district by thenisehes. It seems that a great many jieoiile look upon Jeffi-rson county as one of the smaller counties of tlie Slate, hut it is now about the fourth county in poimlation and about the fourth county in wealth in the Territoi\-. and I think that when we do away with the probate courts (d this territory, wi^ should gi^ e to the county of .lefferson a judge. 1 liad an ide;i llial wIumi we ;issenilied here, if was for till' purpose ol CONSTITUTIONAL GOAVK.NTIO.N 1889 289 cstablisliiiif.' a LiiMtcr gONcnmu'iil than tlial under wlucli we now live, and 1 also supposed that the purpose oi establishuig eourls of justice was to adniinisler justice, and not to save expense to the people. Of course, we should be as eeononiu-al as possible in adoptnig the system ol' courts, hut there are other m;itters to be considered besides the mere cost of administering justice. We ha\i' lieen now for sometime in Jefferson count.\- in a district composed of three couties. We have iiexer had in that county any justice. 1 ha\(' Ined there for over two years and a halt. There have been six terms of court in that county since I ha\e been there. They ha\e never been able to try any civil causes 111 that county. Aow, I believe that the object of establishing a court 111 justice IS to give a guilty man who is charged with a crime a spefuJy trial and con\iction, and not to keep him in jail at the expense (d' tht; county: and to give to an innocent man who is charged with a crime, a speedy trial ad an acquittal. .Neither of these things can be had now in ttiat county as it has been, and as it is at present, umler the present ju- dicial system. I believe, moreover, that when a man has a civil riglit that lias been injured, that he should have a speedy redress for the injury lliat has bei'ii done him. We liave never had there any redress at all. I here has only been in the last eight years, as I haM' been informed, one term of court in the county where there have been any civil cases tried to aiiHiunt to anything. At Ihe last term of court, we had a three weeks term. Ttie whole of that time wias taken up in Ihr trial of crim- inal causes. Ihi'ie were then on the docket civil cases which would have taken, according to my computation, at the least six weeks, and as 1 have been informed by other gentlemen, even longer than that, say two months or ten weeks. Those cases were not touched at all: we simply tried the criminal cases on the docket at that time. Now, I believe that the litigants in that county have a right to have their cases tried, and I believe we should not only consider the expense (o the county but we should consider the rights of people who have cases in the district court: and 1 do not believe that if this system is adopted here which puts Jefferson, Madison and Beaverhead counties into one district, that we Will be any better off than we have been under the present system. If wi' have got to pay for our district courts, then I w&nt a court that will administer justice, and we cannot get it under the present system: and I do not believe that we can get it if you put those three counties mio one district. n\ e are now in a district which has three counties. Ihat district has one district court and three probate courts. We can- not now — I speak only so far as my own county is concerned, with which 1 am perfectly familiar — we cannot get any justice in that county. .Now, 1 say if you are going to abolish these I'ourts and place us in a dis- Irict where w-e wiill have only one court to take the place of four courts, tliat we will be still worse off: anrl if we are not going to be any belter (iff than we are now^ then 1 prefer remaining as a territory and have I ncle Sam pay for our justice such as we get. That will be about the etfect of th(> arrangement proposed by the gentleman from Meagher county. 1 believe that this system which has been proposed here by the judiciary committee will be a satisfactory system to the people of this new State ami 1 believe if we have one judge in the county of Jefferson that we will save expense to the people of that county. The argumnts which have been used before the judiciary committee and before the IHar .Association which passed upon this same question liere last week were that by having a system similar to this system of Superior Courts, as It is called in California, or which w»^ call District Courts, and which IS tlie same system practically that has been in operation in Pennsyl- vania for the last one hundred years, that we would have a speedy remedy to riglil our wrongs: that we would save expense to the counties by adopting that system as well as save expense to civil litigants that tiave cases before that court. I did not come here favorably impressed with that system. I believed in having about six district judges and the probate judges: but after hearing Ihe arguments — and they were arguments, some of which were made by gentlemen who have got up beri' today and seemed to be in favor of reducing still further the dis- Iricts whicli have been reported by this Committee — after hearing their nrugmenls m favor of this so-called Calitorma system of giving to each county in this territory a judge. I felt that it would be the proper thing to do. It seems to me, howevei'. that it is the sentiment of this Committee 290 I'HOCKliDINaS AM) UKBATES of llic \\ lioli' thai wiiiilil III' liii) iinii-li: and it Wiis flir .sciisi' of flu" Judifuuy Cominitlcr: but I bdii-vo tlial tlii" sysli'in wliicti Ihoy liave reporti'd hcip wdl be inexpensive and it will be Ihe best system that we can adopt. A yreat many of ttie genth'men wlio havi' spoken liere seem to thnik that the objeet of a court of justice is to save people money. 1 do not think so. 1 thmk it is Ihe object of a court lo administer justice, and if we have got a system here that will admiiiisler just'ce at no greater expense than we can necessarily axoid, we sliould adopt I hat system. I am m favor of adopting tlie report of the Committee here especially as it refers to my county. 1 believe that we will save a great amount of expense. The gentlemen of this Convention do not seem to tlimk that wlien we are creating as it is true, twelve district courts, that we are abolishing sixteen probate courts. We have now four dis- trict courts and sixteen probate courts, making twenty courts. We prii- pose now to organize simply twelve courts, ttiat is, we are cutting off eight courts. iNow the cost of those courts, if we had county courts, would amount to at least .f30,000 and the balance of that .f54,obo which these twelve courts would cost is no more than we would have to pay Ihe district judges if we adopt a system of district judges and probate courts. Wow, if we are going to abolish the probate courts, then 1 would not be in favor of adopting the system which has been proposed here by the gentle- man from Meagher ciuinly. .\s 1 have said, under the present system, we cannot get any justice in mir county, if you are goinj.' to abolish tlie probate courts, we will still be worse off than we are now; and if we cannot have a probate court in that county, we ought to liaxe a district judge wlio can sit m that county, it would be economical anil in the in- terest of justice. I'here are a great many cases coming uji where a speedy remedy is necessary, b'ov instance, injunctions, writs of habeas corpus, and other writs of that character. Under the present system if tins plan IS adopted as proposed by the gentleman from .Meagher county, some of those counties m that district are going to suffer in tlie administralion of justice, if we have a judge in Jefferson county, the other counties are going to suffer from it. They are going to go over to Jefferson county every time they want a writ of injunction or every time they want a writ of habeas corpus, and all that is going to cost a great deal of morey. By having this system with a judge in Jefferson county, allowing the other two counties to make the other district we would save that expense. I believe, further, that that system would save a great deal of expense in criminal cases. There are a s;real many cases that come up in the justice and probate courts where a man upon some charge of misdemeanor is convicted. He has a jury trial which the county has to pay for, and they liave to pay tlie costs of the witnesses which he produces. In nearly every case in my county where a man is convicted in a case of that kinii, he takes an appeal to the district court. That case all comes up again. Jhe consequence is that the county has to pay the cost of trying that criminal case twice. There are two sets of jurors and two sets of wit- nesses, and it would only take two or three cases like that in a year to more than pay the difference between the judge's salary sucli as they would have to pay as a county by themselves, and the salary they wiuilit have to pay a judge in coniiectimi with these other two disiricts. When we come into this new State, I would like lo see a belter go\ernment. I know ttial the administralion nf justice in our county has been defective: that we have not had a court tliere in my recollection — and as I have said before, in the last eight years, as I have been informeil by lawyers who practiced there before- -we have not had a court there which would try the civil cases at all. Mow, I believe lliat Ihose people are entitled to some rights. I believe that when a man is wrongerl. he is entitled to have Ihat wrong redressed, and I do not see how we ran do it under the system proposed by the genlleman from IMeagher county. I believe we are just as mucli entitled lo have a judge in .leftersoii county as in Mis- soula or any other county m Ihis Territory, beeaiise e\ery man is entitleil to have justice, and we cannol get justire uiidei- tlie system winch is |>rii posed. i\lr. Joy, of Park: Mr. Chairman, I am in perfect accoiii with lie' gentleman who has last spoken upon this proposition, aiul I want also to endorse the statements of the genlleman from Custer (Mr. liurleigh and the gentleman from Deer Lodge iMr. \\ hilehill . Now, it is not a ques- tion, and lor llial iiiattei' I do iint llnnk that an\ gent leiiiaii mi Ibis flnnr. CO.NSlllL llo.NAL nO.N'VE.NTlON 1889 291 up to this date, lias any reason or room to boast to his constituents about what he has acconiplisheri heiv and it does not loolv now as though he was going to have. .Now. I am no( particular as to what county the county of Park shall be attached, but I am anxious that some arrange- ment may be entered into by which we can clear up our dockets every term and that justice may be administered under our constitution without denial or delay. The gentleman from Yellowstone (.Mr. Goddard has suggested that we be attached to the Crow Indian Reservation. The gentleman from Yellowstone knows more about the Oow Indian Reserva- tion than 1 do, and in view of the fact that he and his people for maiiv years have been joined to the Crow Indian Reservation for all olher purposes I expect they might just as well stand that racket for judicial purposes. .Now. .Mr. Chairman, it has been suggested here that in all of these counties they never have a term longer than two \\veks. I want this Committee to undei'stand that we have never had a term of court for more than two or three weeks at a time, so that our civil cases have been accumulating from time to time until now we have about sixty cases on the docket, and I have been also informed by the judge who pre- sides upon that bench, since I have been engaged here upon this floor. that at the coming term which meets there in September, a notice has been served upon us in advance that nothing but criminal cases will be disposed of at that term. .Now, I say, connect Park with any county that you please so that you provide for a system whereby we can clean up all of our civil business, so that we may not be holding over from year to year. 1 think it is a safe statement for me to make (hat I have four or five clients now with important cases upon the docket who would almost be willing of themselves to contribute enough to pay a years salary to a judge if I hey could only have those cases tried and determined at once; it has already cost them the price of this year's crops: and if the proposi- tion is to put the same number of counties or nearly that number in each district — nearly as many as we have now — we will be no better off. I want to call the attention of this committee to one fact that has mil been referred to ye(. that if we abolish the probate system we will be worse off. as my friend from Jefferson suggested, than we are now. That probate court is established with certain civil and criminal jurisdiction, something that goes beyond the jurisdiction of a justice court. Now. if we are only to have a justice and a district court, it will work a hardship. .\ person brought up tor a misdemeanor which is punishable by imprisonment for more than ninety days is beyond the jurisdiction of a justice court and that man will have to go to jail and lie there three or four months until the district court meets, and then his case will be heard and determined, and he will serve out his imprisonment after that. It is a hardship in that respect, ami it is a hardship upon every citizen of the county, because they will during all thai time have to pay the expense of keeping these prisoners in jail. Then there is the intermediate jurisdiction of the pro- bate court of $500, which will be done away with and I say our district courts will be more than overcrowded. There will be nearly double the business, and I am satisfied that under the arrangement contemplated by this amendment, the condition of our docket will remain as it is now and it will lake from a year and a half to two years to dispose of the civil business. The expense of the probate court this year in Park county is •SL'.800. II is proposed to pay the district judge »3.000. .Now. that alone would not amovint to anything to the people of Park county, and I am in favor. .Mr. Chairman, if the probate court is to be done away with. I am in i'a\r,r of engrafting here in this constitution that the various counli;*s shall pay for their own court, anci that no part shall be paid by the state. Let the counties jiay for their courts. I say that when gentlemen come up here and state the condition of their affairs and show conclusively that they need more judges and more terms of court, that this Convention ought to be willing to give it to them. Park county does not ask that ttie Slate shall |iay half of the expense of her court: we are willing to |iay for ttie administration of justice: we only want arrangements made by which we shall have that justice. I am in favor of making that amendment, that each county shall pay for its own judge. The Chairman: The gentliTiian from Silver Bow offers a substitute to the pending amendment which the Clerk will read. The CliM-k read as follows: Substitute for Section 13. i:92 PH(JCEEl)I.NGi? AND DKBATKS -Mr. .Middlctoii, (if Custci-: Air. Cliairiiiiiii I regret very sincerely that 1 was iiiit present tins forenoon to hear the discussion upon this question, but Irom what I have heard tins afternoon, tliere seems to be an inclina- tion 111 favoi of having a .juilge in every counly. .Now, I believe that if that mailer is iaicly considered il will become perfectly apparent to e\eT'\- one that that number of judges is not re(|uired and I will supi)oi'l llii' ameuilineiit as offered by the gentleman tidin .Meagher counly winch jiro- vidi's foe eight judicial districts with a judge fyc each district. I belie\e that that number of judges can do all the work that is lo be done. If we take into consideration the fact that heretofore we ha\e had but four judges who have been required lo hold two terms of the Supreme Court a year which have taken at least two months in the year, in addition to their regular duties as district judges and that by this proiiosition we double the number of district judges, and that they have nothing to do with the work in the Supreme Court, but that I'ach judge attends to the duties in his own district the year round, I believe that notwithstanding the fact that tln^ proliate courts are to be abolished and the work of those courts thrown into the district courts, thai e\ery bit of i| can be done by eight judges in the state. i\ow, the argument of the gentleman from Jef- ferson that they have not had a cixil case tried for the last eight years, and Ins further argument that it will lake six or seven weeks to do away with the accumulation of eight years' business is to me the strongest kind of indication that Ihat counly does not need a judge. His own argument is conclusive. If a ,iudge can dispose of the wt)rk in that county, the accumulation of eiglil years, in six or seven or eight weeks, I submit there is no good reason and it is no good argument why thi're should be a judge in that county. iNow, so far as the business in the eastern part o! the territory is concerned, 1 am satisfied that one man can perform all of this work in Dawson, Custer and Vellowstoiie counties. I am not able to speak from a knowledge of tlie condition of 'things so well as to the other counties. 1 believe we should have a sufficient number of judges to do all the work and to do it as speedily as possible. The argument of the gentleman from Park that it will save a large amount of costs that are now required in kee|iing persons in jail, and for witnesses, and that sort of thing, does not obtain for this reason, that we propose to have four terms of court m each county. Those persons would have to be held if there was a judge for every counly because in the districts Where a count\' composes a district, there is simply provision lor four terms of oourt in thai county. iNow, if we shall provide Ihat, there shall lie three counties in one district, that judge shall be compelled lo hold twelve terms of court, but as the business will be much less than it is in this county or in Sliver Bow county, he can certainly readily attend to it. .Now, the jjrobate business, that is, strictly speaking, probate matters that would have to be performed by the judges, is not going to take any great amount of time. Most of the work in the probate courts of estates and matters of that kind, is done by the clerk anyway, and I believe that on the first two or three or four days of each term id' court all tlie probate business there is can be disposed of in the district court: that there can be a two or three weeks term four times a year in each county, and that in less than twelvi^ months the docket of the district court of every county in this State will be (deaiied up. Now, it is a matter that I do not believe in- dnidual counties stiould be permitted to have their entire say in, or thai Ihis t'.onvention slnuild be cuntrcdled by the wishes of any iiarticular county, for the reason that it is pro|iosed liiat the Stale shall pay onehair of the expense of these judges; — and I Ihmk that is right becaiisi' the criminal business in each and e\'ery of these counties is fully (nie-half ol what business is done, and criminal business is State business and should be paid for by the State. So if it is lo be paid for by the Slate, then unless the represenlative or representatives from a cerlaiii county can show that their condition of affairs is such as was imlicaled by the gentleman from .Missoula, that they actually need a judge lo do the work there — and from his stalemeni I believe they do— and tins ameiidmiMit id the gentleman fi'om Meagher I understand makes tlial a separale district — unless the mcmliers from those counlies can show that there is suffi- cient business lo warrant having a judge for the counly Hie year round, I do not believe that I hey should be allowed lo have I hem. I believe the eight judges can iierrorm the work there is for the piesenl. and if in two xcars from now the legislalnre deem il necessar.\ lo iiicrease Ihal number. II cerlaiiilv can he done. C.O.XSII IL ]|().\AL CO.WK.MIO.N IKSO 29;) Mr. Jdvi's, (if .JciriTson: I only wish (o alludi> to one rcinai'k of the t;riitlcriian from t'.uslor. Ho says thai in lht> discussion of this question tiy lue that the fart that 1 stated here that there were six or eight weelis' liiisiness (111 the doeket after all this tune shows Ihat we do not need a jiid,t;e in Jefferson county. .Now, these cases which are on the docket now 111 .Jefferson couiily are nearly all new cases; the old cases have not been tried: tli(>y ha\'e simply been dismissed and settled up without coming to any proper adjudication becausi> they could not be brought to trial. Kvery linii^ some man jumps lh(> mining claim of another and a suit is lir(ni>!ht. I he man Ihat owns the claim, e\en if the other man has got no |iossible show ol' e\er winning the case, has got to pay the jumper, and has lo encourage tilackinail and robbery in order to get justice. He cannot firing Ins casi^ up and try it. He knows tliat if he brings his case b(^for(:> Ihc dislrict court it will be put off from time to time and from year to >ear, and all thai he can do is to pay this robber and get his case dismissed and his title quieted so Ihat he can dispose of his property and do some- thing Willi it. .\iul these Oases that are now on the docket are cases, nearly all of them, whiidi ha\e come up within the last year. I'hese old cases Ihat have been accumulating for years have been settled up in some manner nnsatisfaclory to all the parties and disposed of: and I do not believe that this same system which is firoposed by the gentleman fronii .Meagher will give us any better justice than we have been having in the past. I biMieve that if it is the sense of this Convention thai Jef- ferson county ought not to have a judge — I think it ought to have, and that It IS just as much entitled to one as these other counties — but if this t'-oini'iition Ihinks it is no| entitled to one, then 1 think some other arrangement sfiould \to proposed besides that mapped out by the gentle- man from .Meagher. I believe that would be unsatisfactory lo the people of our county: that if, will cost them more, and that they will not have any more chances for getting redress "for wrongs than they have now. The business has been increasing all the time within the last Iwo or three years, and the business there now would warrant having a judge there all I he year, in my opinion. -Mr. Clark, of SiImm- How: I do not desire lo take up the time of this Coiniiiitlee and shall not do so for any greal length of lime. 1 simply wish to make an obS(ii'vation with reference to the amendment which I have offered to s(iction IH. This districting of the state of .Montana into judicial districts is a question of the utmost importance. 'I'he main object to be had in view, and to be held in view, is not the queslion so much of expense, but, as has been pro[ierly suggested by some of the gentlemen present, to secure an id'ficieni and speedy' adminisli-alion of justice: and this IS the object which should govern every one of us in deciding Ibis question tiere today. .\ow, the gentleman from .Missoula objects lo coup- ling that county with any other couiily in a judicial district. Upon listen- ing: to the reasons adduced by that g(Milleman.' 1 was willing lo withdraw my motion which couided .Missoula county with Jefferson county, and I am willing so far as I am concerned — and 1 believe it will meet the views ol my constituents — that every county in this iState shall have a judicial dislrict, if it shall be deemed necessary to secure a speedy and efficient administration of justice; and 1 am also willing so far as I am convinced b> llie (>vidence that has been adduced here by these gentlemen from these different counties to accede to their deiUjands and wishe.s whenever I believe I hey are correct. I do not believe it is necessary to give every county III this Slate a separate judicial district, but I would say that if the county of .Missoula is entitled to a separate district, I believe that to couple three counties logellier. for instance, Jefferson, .Madison and Beaverhead, as has been projiosed, would be to make the districts en- tireTy (lisi)roporti(iiiate. 1 am c(in\inced from what 1 have heard from th(» lips of the g(Milleman from Jefferson, and from my experience in these matters, that he is correct, and that to couple these three counties to- gether would work an injustice to all of them. We have heard it stated that it has been impossible to secure justice in the county of Jefferson, and 1 believe the gentleman to be correct when he says that the peopU^ of his county will be still subject to injustice if they are coupled with Iwo other counties. .Now. 1 liave looked this matter over carefully, and 1 have drawn up an amendment which couples not more than two counties together, leaving the larger counties to constitute a single judicial dis- trict, and I believe that the ohjecl which we are all seeking will be accom- i!94 I'HOCKEDI.NfiS AM) DKHATJiS Ijlislicd. II it shall )ji' Iduiid in a yt'nv ln'uci' lliat lln'sc dislricts ari> ikiI .siiiriciciit, il is williiii till' ijowcr and Itn- jui'isdictinu ol the Icj^islatiirc Id (■[■(■all' otlicr dislruds. .\lr. Cardwt'll, of jeffiTson: I dn uol di'sirc to lakr up ttir liiin' o| tlie coiiiinitli'i'. but I do say that I ln'artily support the sulJsldutc ollered t)y Uii' gt'iUIPixiau from .Mi-agliri' ciiuiity Dr. PartiPrry . I do not think that Jcffpison I'ouuly requires a separate judicial dislrict. I hope to .si-i; the suhstitulp offered by Dr. Marberry [lassed on any other substitute thai IS in the shape of economy. -Mr. .Meyers, of \ello\vslone: I desire lo say one word, thai is. that under this substitute, of the geiillenian from .Meagher county, il seems lo me that justice can be fully distributed in Ihese \arious districts, and I will add llial if it becfimes necessary to form anolher judicial dislrict, that the Legislature meels almost immediately after the adoiilion of this constitution, and if il is di'moiistrated that it is necessary they should have another district, then it wiill be very easy for the citizens of Jeffer- son counly lo secure a separate court. When we come lo make up tlie eslimales for running the state government per annum, we find that it will take alioiit ."Jii^O.OiMI to run the slate go\eriiineiit. 'I'he judicial system will consumi' about one-seventh or one-eit.'blli of thai aniounl. under this resdiulion if adopted. We find thai the laxable properly from the. best inlormatioii olilamabie for the iiresent year will probably reach eighty millions of dollars wilhm the state. The Financial Committee will recom- mend that the taxes levied by the tStale shall not exceed three mills on the dollar which would produce a revenue of two hundred and forty thousand dollars. The balance of about eighty thousand dollars to keep the f;tate running for one year would have to be made up from licenses and other sources. .Now, it seems to me that we ought to start off from the bottom round of the ladder, start a judicial system at the very least, with the fewest number of judges that we can possibly gi>t along with and conduct the business of iht; State properly; and if after an experience of one or two years, we find that we can increase the number, then we can proceed lo increase them. Let us not start off at the top of the ladder and descend, ffence, 1 think, that the resolution of the gentleman from Meagher Dr. Parberry is nearer the right point to start at than any •other that has been introduced, and that il would be wise on the part of this Convention to adopt that ri>solulion and make tlial as a bi\iriiining. If we wani lo advance afterwards, why, we can create new districts, and even, if necessary, give each county a court. I'he Chair put the c|uesfion on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. (Mr. Clark and a vote being had, the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The question Is no\\' on the substitute of the gentle- man from .Meagher (Dr. Parberryi, which the Clerk will read. T'he Clerk ri'ad the said substitule for the information of the Com- mittee. Mr. \\ hilehill. of Deer Lodge: 1 offer an amendment to that section, tlial Jefferson county be atlded to the schedule proposed by the gentleman from Meagher (Dr. Parberry as a separate dislrict In he known as number 9. T'he motion was second(>d. T'he (^liair put the question on the said molion of ihe genlleman from Dee[- J.odge (.Mr. Whitehilli, and a vote being had, Ihe same was declari'd lost. Tlie Chairman: 'I'he i|iiestion now recurs upon the subslitule of the genlleman from Meagher i Dr. Parberry'. 'I'he Chair put the question on the said substitute of the gi'iilleinan from Meagher (Dr. Parberry, and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I desin- to amend by making Deer Lodge the second judicial ilistrict and Silver Bow the third. It is a matter of no importance to the oilier counties, bul I do that for the reason that ever since the territory has been organized thai has been Ihe second judicial district, and as a matter of the name and Iradilion, 1 desire to have Ihe name retained. .Mr. Burleigh, of Cusler: I woulil suggest lo my friend from Deer Lodge that under this constitution, the language of the Scripture applies. CONSTITUTIONAL U ».\\ KM H ).N 1889 295 "All old tlimj^s liavo passml away and hi'li'dd all lluns^s liavc bccnim,' yiii'w. LauglitiT rill' motion ol the grutliMiian Irom I r Lodgo was secundi'd. Tlic Cliair stated the motion. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: 1 hope Ihis mulioii will nol pre\ail. t«ihei- Bow eountv has always lieeii in the seeoiid judicial districl evei' since the county was creali'd. and it was the first county seat of what is now Deer Lodf-'e county: anti if either one of the counties is entitled to the distinction, I think it is Silver Bow county. llie Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer l.iid^e .Mr. Kohiuson and a vole liemt; had, the same was declared hisl. .\lr. \\ hitehill of Deer Lodge sent uii an amendment wliich the Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 15 by sinking out of line I the words "writs of error" at the beginning of the section and after the word "the" and before the word "decisions," insert "judgments, decrees and," .Mr. \\ hitehill of Deer Lodge moved the adoption of the ameiKlment. The motion was seconded. .Mr. \V hitehill. of Deer i>odge: .Mr, Chairman, those words "wTits of error" under our practice, are now obsolete, and umler all the systems where the code practice is in vogue, there is no such thing known now as writs of error. The words have crept m there, I think, without proper consideration by the judiciary committee, I'he Committee took the old constitution, which was virtually taken from the Colorado reports, 'there they had writs of error, but in California, in .New York and in this Terri- tory, and in all the Territories that have code practice similar to ours, there is not such a thing known as writs of error. 1 ask any attorney iu .Montana if he could now under our practice code, gel into the Supreme Court of tins Territory by means of a writ of error? Vou might as well have added to Section 22 or Section 23 "\\ rits of error and appeals shall be allowed from justice courts " as to have a writ of error from our dis- trict courts now under our practice, I'ormerly, where common law prac- tice and equity practice were separated, writs of error were taken upon questions of common law and appeals on questions of equity, -Now- in the sections which we have adopted and recommended, you will observe III Section 28 that there is a clause which provides that there shall be hut one form of civil action and law and equity may be administered in the same case, .\ow. we have provided that there shall be but one form of action, and that both of those systems are incorporated in one: and under our practice we have to get into the Supreme Court by appeals and not by w-rits of error: so that under our law. and under all the code laws, this writ of error is not a correct term and I will ask any attorney in this convention again, if it would be possible for him to get into the Supreme court iiy a writ of error. So I say that that word writ of error should be stricken out and the words "decrees and decisions' inserted, 'these are the words that are used in the .\ew York practice for providing lor the review of cases in the Supreme court on appeal. There may be some attorneys that will argoie that the words "decisions" covers it all, but I do not think so and so I have amended it to conform to the practice. .Mr. J. K. 'i'oole. of Lewis & Clarke: In the absence of the chairman of the judiciary committee, 1 simply desire to make one observation. The argument of the gentleman from Deer l^odge evidently^ proceeds upon the theory that the practice which now obtains in this Territory will ulti- mately olitam in the Stale. The last legislative assembly of this Territory' provided for a Code Commission charged with the duty and responsiliility . of reporting to the first legislative assembly of the state of .Montana a code. 1 do not know and cannot tell what kind of a code may be presented by the Code Commission, or what the legislative assembly of the state will adopt, but certain it is, however, that if they do not provide for taking cases to the supreme court by a writ of error, those words cannot possibly do any harm in the constitution. If they remain there, if will be within the jjrovince of the legislative assembly to provide that method of getting cases into the supreme court of the state. If they are stricken out, it will be impossible to do so. It strikes me as a member of the judiciary committee, in the absence of the Chairman, that the words (.ught to remain there. They cannot possibly do any harm. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge (.Mr. Whitehill and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. i'yi) PHOUKEDINUS AM) DEBATES Mr. \\ liili'liill. ol' Deer Lodge: 1 innve to ainend Section 23, so (hat it will ri\ul "W i-its of errors and nppi'als shall be allowed, &c." I'he molioii was secondi'd, the Chair stated tlie motion. .Mr. W liiti'hill, of Deer Lodge: Now, Mr. I'residi'nt, if it is proijei- thai lliose words should he in the other seetioii because we do not l^now what the Code Commission is going to do, I sa.v it is proijcr that tliey should be added here, "■writs of erroi- and appeals shall be allowed from Justice courts,' because we know no more about what this Code (Commis- sion will do about justice courts than about district courts, and to be con- sistent, I ino\c tliose words should be inserted. .Mr. J. 1\. I'oole. of J^ewis A Clarke: I would like U> iiuiuirr ot ni.v Irieiul If he cM-r kni'W a code in any Slate id the Ijiuon, or an.v system of practice which aulhorized a writ of error from a justice court. Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: 1 say tliat under the other section Itiat there is no sucli thing known in Alontana as writs of error, and I am sure that the Caliloriua system will ljt> adopted by us, and if so. it intro- duces an obsolete word in the wording of tin' section, and lias just as much force lieri' as it has in the other section. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge i.\lr. Whiteliill and a \nle bem;.'^ taken the same was declari'd lost. Mr. Middli'tmi (if Custi'i': 1 desire In ullrr an amendmenl to Sec- tion 29. The Chairman: The grniiciiian trom Custer .Mr. .\Iiddleton offers the following amendment. Strike out of Sf'ction 29 all of section after line HI and insert the following: "•'i'itXKJ per annum eacli." To which the rollowing amenilment is now offered. rile Clerk read as loUows: Amend Section 29 of article on judiciary as follows: Strike out all of tliat jiart of said section after tin- word "each" in the 10th line, and iiisrrt in lieu tliereof the following: "Until otherwise provided by law, the salaries of the several district judges shall be JtiiOOO each per annum:.' Offered by .Mr. Goddard of Vidlowstone. Said motions were both seconded. -Mr. Burleigti. of Custer: 1 offer an amenilment to Section 29. .Mr. Middletnn, of Custer: The only difference 1 can see between the two amendments, is that one reads "per annum each, " and the other reads "each tier annum. I'hi' Chaw [lul llie question on the molmu df the gentleman from Vellowstdiii' .Mr. (Iiidn.-ii-d and a M'tr hi'ing taken tin' same \\;is declari'd lost. .Mr. Ciillins cd lUiscade sent up an amendment. 'f'he Clerk re-read the aniendnieiit offered by the gentlema.n from Custer (Mr. Middletoni as follows: Strike out of Section 29 all of" section after line 10 and insert the following "ijiiOOO per annum each.' .Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: 1 do not think tliat if we adiijit this aincndinent, it will mak(> that section intelligible. I'he Chair i)Ut the question on the motion nf tlie j;eidleinan from Custer (Mr. .Middh^ton' and tne same was declared carried. I'he (Chairman: 'i'here is another amendment pending; wtiich tlit> Clerk will reatl. The Clerk read as follows: 1 mo\i' to ann'iid b,\ striking out "«i(KH)" and insert "•liiJ.'aM.). " Offered by .Mr. Collins ot Cascade. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Partierr.v, id' .Meat-diei': 1 would like to ask it that would include mileage? 'I'lii' Chairman: II is not a)i|iarenl on the lace of tlie amendmenl. Mr. t:ai'iienlei\ of Lewis iV Clarke: The mi|uiry has jiisl been made as to whether these salaries were uiteiided to cover mileafie. I tlimk that IS an important question to be settled because, possibly, it mileai;e might not be allowi'd, the salary nii^;lit in some cases be considered small: it mileage were allowed, it might in some cases be very large because the mileage received without much oulno of money might be very large. 1 lierefore, 1 tlimk the question of mileafie ought to be settled hei'e while the salaries are benif; fixed. The ne.xt section .says, "No office shall re- ceive any coiuiiensation for or on account of his office except the salary proMiled' by law." I'bat might or might not he held to I'over mileage, but m Ihis a^:e id' piililic comeyances and pulihc coin emences for travel- CUNSTITUTiONAL CO.W K.NI'in.N 1889 297 ing — the ago ol' passos. Aci-.— 1 think (his iiucstKni duylil to be scllh'il whPii wp fix thH amount of sahirics to lio i)aRl so thai we can vote intelli- tft'iitly with rotcriMR-e to tho rompmisation. A juilgi^ might receive $5000 and Ills mileage in fact miglit bring it up to ifOdiM): or if he did not have mileage it might reduce it .¥5(10 or so; and for the purpose of passing upon that (lueslion, if an amendment is in order. I will offer one. The ('.haiiinan: the gi'iillemans anieiiilincnt is not in oimIci- al lliis time. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: .Mr. Cliairman. I Ihnik there is another ques- tion that lies baclv of the wise suggest loii of my friend from Lewis & Clarke county, and that is whether he makes the suggestion as to mileage with the view that it is possible that these generous railroad corporations may furnish all the judges with passes and whether tliey are to credit them up to the State or not. If not. why, Ihere should certainly be some [irovision made for their actual traveling expenses, to say the least. .Mr. Clark, of SiUer Bow: I hope the amendment offered by the gen- tleman from Cascade will not prevail. Now, .¥3500, as proposed by his amendment, is not sufficient compensation and will not imJuce a com- petent .judge to run for that office. T do not believe that any district in this State will be able to procure a competent judge e\en for .$4000. Now, there is no economy in cutting down the wages or salary of the man who occupies so important a position as judge of a district court. It is very important, on the other hand, that we. get the most efficient and competent lawyers in the territory to accept those positions. The days of "carpet-bag" rule will be forever abandoned, and while we have had some of the most excellent gentlemen here undiM- territorial administra- tion we know that we cannot get com|ietent nati\e talent, as a rule, to accept these positions. Heretofore, we have had to accept those that were sent out here by the different adimnistrations at Washington, be- cause lawj'ers do not get such fees in the East — the cost of living is less — and a man will come out here and accept a position from the State that would be refused by our local lawyers, T am in favor of putting good lawyers into these positions, men who an- competent and men wlio are eflicient: men who have excellent ability and who will perform the duties of their office in a capable and prompt manner, \^'e know very well that a judge may delay the business of a court to such an extent, even in one session as to absorb several tinxes the amount of his salary. W'e have a State here with a capital of over a liundre(l millions id' dollars, ami 1 protest against the state of Montana offering to put men upon the benches of this state and pay them the paltry sum of .153500. I believe in economy: I believe in retrenchment wherever we can retrench and save the expenditure of money in every way possible: but I believe it is a mistaken policy; I believe that it would be penny-wise and pounrl-foolish to attempt to select men and induce them to take the bench in this stale on ttial salary. Gentlemen who have been in business know full well that in order to get good help we are obliged to pay good wages, and it is impossible, in my opinion, to get lawyers in this Territory to accept those positions who are capable of administering the duties of that office, at the salary named or contemplated in the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade, Mr. Robinson, of Ueer Lodge: I do nol lake exactly the same view of it that the gentleman Ironi Silver How does. In the first [dace I would like to have $5000 lawyers on the bench in the nisi |)rius courts. If the gentleman in his own business affairs has an important case to try he might find a lawyer to attend to it for .$250, but he would not be likely to employ him but rather would employ one that he would have to pay .¥•500 or a .¥1000, He has the selection; and if we could select in the same way so far as our judiciary is concerned, I would say Amen to it; I would say" increase the salary above even $1000. If we can get .$.5000 men on the district bench it would pay the State of .Montana to have $5000 men there instead of .$2500 or $;^000' m.en. Hut that is not the thing. We cannot select our judges on the same basis as you business gentlemen can em- ploy your attorneys. We have in Montana Territory, and always ha\e had on the bench in the first place .¥2(i(Hl men until about eight years ago Congress increased it to $oOO(). How many eminent gentlemen have there been in .Montana in the last twenty years who ha\e been willing- to sacrifice thi-mselves for $2(500 and .¥3000 a year for those positions? No.w, then, sir. If these gentlemen are willing to sacrifice themselves for that price, and L'98 PHOCKKDI.NCS AM) DKHAIES siiiiii' ol lliriri liaM' lici'ii M'l'v ciiiniM'Ipiil aiiil {jikkj nini dn Ihc Imcli, and si> comiK'tciit I hat llu'y will in all human piohability go upon the bench again — tht'ii il (hey are livilKX) niPii we am going to get them lor $4000. those who go upon the ^Supreme bench will probably be men who have accepted these positions for $3000. It we can carry il out in practice as in theory 1 would be m t'avnr of iiulling the salaries ut> to a price where we could secure the most compi'teni men; but 1 am so well satisfied that we cannot do that, tliat 1 believe we would be giving a higher [irice than the men themselves would ask for those services — in othi'r words, that we will gel •'jaooo men for whom we will have to pay $ioiM). For that reason 1 support the amiMulment oi the gentleman from Cascade. Not. Sirs, but what 1 believe somi> of them would make less money than that, they can make no nJore because th(> .salary on the bench of $2500 is equivalent to $4000 in practice, because a man's expenses will run up to that much. t>o. taking all these things into consideration. I am disposeil to support the proposition of the g(Mitleman from Cascade, not but what 1 belie\e in paying $4000 and even $5000 to men on the bench; it would pay to do so — it Would pay to have men of that caliber as aie judges on the nisi prius and [Supreme benches: but if we can get them for less, then let us not pay more than they ask themselves. Mr. Ramsdell of .\lissoula: I would like to see the gentleman carry his argument to its logical conclusion ami introduce a resolution not to pay over $1000. 1 am satisfied we can gel judges for $1000 it we have a mind to accept that kind of talent. .Mr. Collin.s, of Cascade: I think that an increase of $.5fM) over the amount paid at present is entirely sufficient for the beginning of our expenses as a state. .Now, if the gentleman from Silver- Bow had the selection of the men to serve as the judges of the County courts and the Supreme courts, and had the power in him to compel those people whom he selected to serve, 1 would be heartily m favor of paying them $iO6. .Now. then, .Mr. Chairman, we will shut oiil a ciM'lam character of men, because they are !)!30tK) and $i(M»0 and $500(1 men; whiMi you pay .$:tOOO, you shut out all those who are not willing to work for that but there are men who work for that, and as my friend here says you can get men to work for $1000. Vou gel the character of nn'ii you pay for. Sdvi can get men to fill tliese offices for $1000; 1 have no doubt about it at all. Hut we cannot afford to have poor judges. It is for the interest of evi'ryhody that CO.NSI I I 1 1I().\AI. I'.O.W KM lO.N ISS'.I L';)>» we slidulil luivc mikhI judges. II will pn'xriit I hi' arcuiiiiilanoii oT I hi' Su- in'cmc fourt busmi'ss it we havi' j.'noil iiisi prius judges — iin'ii who study np their cases tu'tori' ileculing tlicui, anil by so doing axouinii; unnrces- ^a^y appeals to the Supreme Court. But if you get men who are in- competent or men who do not. believe ttiat they are suffieiently paid. the result will be that the Supreme court will bi' crowded with business just as It is 111 Calitornia: and the way to avoid that is to get good, com peteiit nisi pnus judges who will do the work w^ell and who will salisty everybody tliat their rulings ace correct. .\s I saiil, that will cut oft un- iiecessary appeals, and 1 hope the motion will not prevail. .Mr. Middleton of Custer: 1 just desire to say a word in reply to the gentleman from Cascade. It occurs to me that his argument in favor ol economy is rather inconsistent in this, that he labored here strenuously to have a provision put into this constitution for a judge in every county making sixteen judges, t'he Judiciary Committee reported a judicial sys- tem with twelve judges. .\t twelve judges with a salary aggregating from !ti:iCKKi, up to iMOtXl. as reported in the report of the Committee that cost to the state for the salaries of those judges would ha\e been •'i'41,.'JiXl. I. ndcr tlie present system if the judges are paid $400fl, each the entire amount of their salaries is .SS^.IKIO. .Now. 1 submit that that was one of lily reasons for faxdrmg the cutting down of the number of judges, .so as to get good men to do the work and then increase the salary and put tnem all on an equal footing, so lliat there might be no gradation among the judges. 1 should think one district judge ought to stand on the very same footing with, every other district judge, and it appears to me that S4000. for such nTaterial as we ought to be able to put on the bench here is certainly very low compensation. iMr. Burleigh of Custer: Mr. Chairman, one word in reply to the remarks of my illustrious and beloved friend Mr. Middleton. In advocat- ing the necessity of able and efficient judges I agree with him fully, but he made one remark that horrified me and that was this — that judges like all other men would work for the pay they got. if a judge was paid a small salary he would shirk his duties — he would not do any more than he was paid for. Aow. if we elect a judge we want an honest man. and rt is perfectly abhorent to every sense of justice to think that a man who IS elected to the district court who swears to do his duty to tlie tiillest extent woulil purjure himself, 1 cannot believe any such thing. -Mr. Joyes of Jefferson: I merely desire to say in regard to the cost of these judges, that the gentleman from Custer says it would come to ^il.OtK). According to my calculation it would amount to -fiSQ.SOO. Now, it IS proposed to abolish three of these districts, or rather to provide only for nine instead of twelve and give then !)i4000 apiece after w"e have decided that in the interests of economy we have got to cut off tliese districts. :Now, it is proposed to give the judges $4000, a piece and I do not see where the economy comes in: that will cost at nine judges •$32,0(X). We only save then about $7,500, by striking off these other four districts. I do not think that that is economy. 1 believe the proposition of the gen- tleman from Cascade to pay them .?3.500. is sufficiently liberal. I be- lieve that if we are going to act here upon the principle that we should have an economical administration of justice, then we ought to adopt the proposition of the gentleman from Cascade and not the one of the gentleman from Silver Bow, that we pay them $4000. We are losing m efficiency and speediness in the administration of justice by adopt intr this system. .Now', gentlemen here seem to have been very well satisfied with tfie system of district judges which we have liad here for so many years. We have got .dile and learned judges for $.'i(lOO a year, who trans- acted the business not only of the district court but of the Supreme court of the state, and I do not see if that is so why that should not ap- ply with equal force to this same proposition. If w'e can get good judges as they say they have done then I do not see why we cannot get a dis- trict judge that would be satisfactory for $;i5<)0. per year Instead of pay- ing him $40(H». 1 think that we should not adopt this proposition to pay ^iOOO. a year. We sliould adopt the proposition of the gentleman from Cascade to pay .$3,500. per year, if we really mean it when we say we are reducing these districts from twelve to nine in the interest of econ- omy. aOO I'UOCKKDI.NCiS AM) DKHAI'KS Mr. Hickards ol Silver How: Aj:i\iii I liiiil inyscir cnmiiiMli'ii tii ilisafirci' with lay fi^ooil Iru'inJ Mr. Collins. Mow, I (luiik .\lr. Clark .souiidi'd what may hr said to l_ii' llic ki'v-iiote of (he .slalo yo\criimciil, and that i.s we want, d- licipiil mi'ii. and 1 Ijelicve il' we need ellieii'iif men anywhere it is eer laiiih on the Ijeneh — men who by reason of their legal ability ami cliaraeter and standing eommand respee't, so that when a man goes into court he may feel that he W'ill get justice. i\ow, it is too often tlie ease 111 some of our lower eourts, and any one who has had any experieiiee will liear nie out in the assertion, that we feel that it is just a toss up ol a penny which way the case will go. \\ C know that tfiey are not (uiinpelent to weigh the evidence, neitlier !>> experience nor education. JNow, 1 believe in the malter of a district judge liial certainly we sliould have tlie very best tah'nl obtamahle, and 1 believe if you place the salary at a living figure there will lie men who will make some sac- rifices to accept that riffice because it carries with it certainly a great deal of honor, and having come from tlie hencli — stepiied down from tlie liench — it gives men a certain standing and prestige in a coinmunily that they did not have before. But if you fix the salary as Mr. Collins pro- poses It seems to me you place it beneath the dignity of the best men in the legal profession. And right on this- point I w^ant to say that I ha\e made up my mind so tar as in my power to establish a schedule of salary for all of our state officers that will command men of ability and character. 1 believe it is economy to do so — as ;Mr. Clark well says economy in this direction as in every other avenue of life. .\nd one other point 1 want to call your attention to: the matter needs no argument and 1 just simply want to call your attention to it. We are fixing the salaries as i understand it which cannot be changed at the next ses- sion of the legislature, or at some succeeding session, but in order to change this grading of salary it will necessitate a change in the con- stitution; am 1 not right? (A member: No.) 1 am not right; but in any event we are fixing the salaries to re- main for some time at least; and I for one, as I said before, believe in lixiiig the salary at such a figure that we will command the very best talent in the profession. Mr. Paruerry of Meagher: It seems to me that the key-note has not been struck yet: if the judges were to be appointed by the Cnivernor then the argument would hold: but we tiave the right to elect our judges, and we all know that the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong but the best rustler gets ahead of us all. (Laughteri And how often will it be and how often has it been that the poorest and most incom- petent man lias been elected: and 1 hold that if talent such as v\h> have had to represent us here for the past twenty years — people generally ha^ e been satisfied with it — it has been the average talent in the Terfi tory — and if they refuse to act for us now there are plenty more liack in the States that will come out here: and I do say that while 1 am in lavor of paying a competent judge and paying him well, there are two sides III the question, and those who fiave to i.iay the fiddler have a right to dance once in awhile, tjaughter If it were left to a vote of the people of this Territory 1 am sure they Would not pay over -'«3,.o(K), and 1 am sure they would get good judges. I would like to see this mileage question settled one way or another before we take a vote on this. Mr. (ioddard of. Yellowstone: 1 believe that judges are hired the same as you can buy merchandise or any otlnn- commodit>'. I do not believe the gentleman from Jefferson iMr. Joyesi will take issue with me on that proposition. I believe he is a smoker, and I do not lielieM- whiMi he goi's into a cigar store he buys I wo cigars for five cents. If I here is a box of cigars which he can buy 'at the rate of eight for a (loilar, and another box alongside of it which he can i)urchase lirii-en or twenty for a dollar, I believe he Woukl take the eight for a dollar. It is the same way in the selection oi judges — the same way in buy- ing any article of merchandise. Now, so far as Ihe salary is concerned it is not too high at $'il)fK). It has been said thai it is impossible to get a good lawy(>r to leave his practice and lake lo the bench for less than !?'iOllli; and I am in favor so far as the mileage question is concerned, of leaving that matter as it is unless it is in doubt: and if Ihe matter is deemed to be in doubt on that |iroposition, I am in fa\oi' of making it d(diMile by allowing: the judges mileage in addition to llie •'^'lOOb. Now, so far as the constituencv (d' the gentlemen m lliis cnnxcniion is con- CONSTITUTIONAL OONVKNTION 1889 301 i-(M'iied. 1 do not believe that the majority of the voters of this Terii toiy desire clieap judges and eheap decisions. We have had euougli of "that in other states and other territories. 1 do not Icnow about this fciritory but I do know, as well as every lawyer who has praetieed at the tiar of this lerritory, tliat you cannot set good, competent judges to take the positions for less than $4000. .Now. in regard to the instance tliat my friend from .Meagher County cites with reference to import- ing judges from the States: judges are like other articles of merchandise which come out here from the ijtates — there is a great deal of freight on them, and all character of mercfiandise commanils a higher price 111 .Montana than it does in Minnesota or the othi'r states, simply because they have to pay a higher rate of freight. The same rule would apply to judges. 1 anil not in favor of returning to the old carpet bag sys- trm of importing judges or any other officer to fill the offices of the new state of .Montana, and I am decidedly in favor of tlie proposition of •r^KKlO, and on this question of mileage 1 am in favor of allowing the judge mileage. .Mr. J. Iv. Toole of Lewis i-V Clarke: I dislike to lake a position con- trary to that of the Judiciary Conunittee in this matter, but the more I have heard of the arguments presented here to-day. the mure it seems to me that at this first election, the first two years provided fin- under this constitution that i$3aW, ought to be a sufficient salary for the pay- ment of these judges. We will have to submit our work to the people of this Territory for ratification, and if we desire to meet with popular favor we have got to be circumspect so far as the amount of taxes are concerned which are to be entailed upon the people. Now, it is gen- erally understood and believed that any sort of a constitution that is granted by this Convention would be ratified by the people of this Territory. It is barely possible that we may be deluding ourselves in that respect. As has been suggested here, the judges of the district courts of the Territory of Montana, four in number, have transacted the entire business of this Territory, and in addition to that the business of the Supreme tTourt of the Territory, holding two terms annually, they have done this for a salary of §3000 a year. We now propose to make eight districts — to subdivide that business up between eight different judges. In addition to releasing them from this large amount of busi- ness— of one-half of the amount — we have taken away from them the business of the Supreme court of the state, leaving eight judges to attend to the business of the district courts and an independent tribu- nal to attend to the business of the Supreme Court. By the method proposed by the gentleman from Cascade we will have saved §40(Xt; of course it is not much, but if we save it all along the line as we pro- ceed in the formation of the constitution, it will be of that much benefit to the people of the future state of Montana. I think it Is worth some- thing outside of a money consideration for a man to occupy the honor- able positionu of a district bench in this state during its formative period for the first two years. The constitution provides that these salaries shall exist until "otherwise provided by law. It requires no change in the constitution to regulate these salaries: and I believe after hearing the discussion of this matter that -$3,500, per annum is enough. -Mr. Callaway, of .\Lidison: The Conunittee of the Judiciary discussed this matter at some length. The proposition originally offered was a much higher rate than what is now proposed. If 1 mistake not I was the mover of that resolution in the committee. It fixed the salaries of the judges at ii>3.(KX) per annum. I will ask the members of this Convention to look over the history of their country and see if they do not find that the gentlemen who occupy the Supreme bench of the 1 nited States receive very much less salary than many of the practicing law- yers. It IS not simply a matter of dollars and cents. Mr. Chairman, but the gentleman who goes upon the bench has a reputation to sustain. I Nnow. that in .Massachusetts, Kentucky. Illinois, I might even say Mon- tana to-day, that it is a matter with them of public duty; It is a matter of reputation: it is something to them to go into history with their de- cisions: not that they have so much pride in simply occupying the posi- tions, but that they can In the course of the administration of justice leave a name in history that is of more value than the mere matter of pride in holding the" position. You take the judges of the Supreme Court Of the Lnited States to-day and perhaps any one of them will make JOa l'K()CEKl)l.\(_iS AM) DKHAIKS more money at llir ijiaclicc oT his prolessioii tliau on Ihc Iji'hcIi. 'llicrc are men who have t-'oue down in history that were distinyuislied as lawyers that were willing to accept the positions, and 1 believe now thai there is one matter, Air. Chairman, in the tliscussion of this ques- tion thai we have somewhat overlooked. It is not a matter of dema- goguery, but this qui'stion is really a matter of dollars and cents to the people of Montana. We want to be careful iii beginning this state government and give at least an example to the people in the matter of economy. V\ e are here to-day as the represetatives of the .sovereign people of Montana, to formulate a government that Diey will approve of, and to lay down the foundations of a system that they will vote for; and if we put in our constitution those things that they object to, It will so much weaken the beginning of our state institutions. My opinion is that we can get the very best talent in Montana, as perhaps we have to-day upon the Supreme bench, at !t^35()00 a year. These gen- tlemen now occupying the position are certainly worthy of our respect: they are the equal of the average lawyer, certainly, of the Territory of Montana; and 1 see no reason why we should burden ourselves with un- necessary taxation. Uf course 1 want to see the office dignified. The reason 1 was opposed to th(! proposition of the gentleman lii're of having one judge for each county was that wie c^annot get gentlemen of !hal learning and integrity that would give that distinction and standing to the courts tliat we could by adopting the different syslem that has been adopted so far in the committee. I submit, Mr. Chairniaii. that the amount proposed by the gentleman from Cascade is sufficient com- pensation for a good lawyer in Montana to warrant him in accepting the judgeship. 1 think we would have no trouble in getting gentlemen to take that amount, and we will have on our district benches judges for whom, if we cannot be proud of them, we will have at least ut- ir.ost respect. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: .lust one word. The remarks of the gen- tleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toole; might be misleading in this, that he states, or rather suggests, that when eight judges are appointed o]' elected instead of the four that are now administering justice in this Territory, the work would be divided up, and that they would only have half as much to do. Now, we must take into consideration that the cal- endars m every district court are behind. In Silver Bow County, I think for more than a year the civil cases have been behind — at the last term of court I believe they only reached three or four civil cases — and justice is being withheld by reason of the dockets being so far behind. So 1 take It that when the state shall elect district judges, they will all have plenty to do, and as much as they can do. As to the question of economy, as sugested by the gentleman from Madison (Mr. Callaway I believe that the people of this Territory simply want to get value for their money; they are simply economical w^hen it is prudent or judicious to be so. They do not desire to get an article except it be the very best. Every merchant in this Territory knows that he can only sell the very best merchandise in this country. He does not bring a piece of shoddy goods out to this Territory because he knows nobody will buy It. Now, I take it the people of this Territory are anxious that they shall get the very best services possible in the administralion of ju- dicial affairs, and with all due deference to the genllemen upon the bench in this Territory — they are able lawyers and failhful and com- petent public servants in every respect — but 1 say that considering the responsibility of the position which those gentlemen occupy, that the salaries that they now get are not comniensurat(> with the duties and responsibilities of the position, i believe that the people of this Terri- tory are in favor of securing the best talent. If this question is to be placed on the score of economy, then we can get lawyers here for $1000, or .^ISOO a year; but we do not want that kind of men. Let us pay good prices and get good services; and if it wi>re necessary to get the best talent in the Territory to pay even iflO.tKK) a year, I believe if would be better for the 'J'erritory on the score of economy alone. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis iV: (Jlarkc: I wish to say simply a word. I am satisfied that for a district judge in Lewis iS: Clarke County of Mie required ability to satisfy the people, he should ha\e a salary of •fi,^^ a year. He may have more work to do than the judges of other districts, for a judge holding the position he will on the bench can do CIl.NSINI IID.NAI. CO.W K.N I 1()> ISSil 303 nothing clsp. Mow, it is not the amount of work by wliu-li Itie salary IS til Uc nioasuri'd, because all of Ins time is taken so liiny as he ean do nntlimj: else. It IS the tiuality i>f the judge. One distru-t needs just as good legal ability as another: and therefore if you have a distiiet system 01 a county system — a judge for each county — tliere ought to be just as able a .judge in Dawson County as in Lewis & t^larke, although he would not Inne one-tenth of llie work to do. Therefore I see no reason for makiiii: a distinction in salary; and if the salary in Lewis & Clarke or Silver liow should l)e siiKKi. I know of lui reason for making it less in any other district: but I do desire that whatever the salary shall be. It shall co\er every ilollar that goes into thc> judges pocket as salary or emolument dX any kind. .Mr. Hickman, of .Madison: i will ask the indulgence of the house for a innment or two. I have heard a good deal said on the floor here today about the ability we should get in the judiciary: that is very true, we often have a diversity in different kinds of ability. Some had the ability to draw their salaries: some again have had the ability, as the report goes, to get away with more bad whisgey than most anybody else could; some again had the reputation for playing higher stacks of blue check.s than another. .Now. if that is the kind of ability we get 1 am opposed to paying for it; 1 think that IIh' gentleman from Cascade has fixed tlie salary about right, but there is one point that I would like to see fixed before we go further, and that is the point in regard to paying mileage. iNow. some of our judges — and I want to say that some of tlicm had the ability to get away with more mileage than any other person exei' known or bearf7(KtO a year, and scarcely a district judge had less than S=4000, and some of them as high as -57000. .Now. if .Nevada with her popu- lation could pay such salaries — and I will say for them that the Supreme court decisions of Nevada which are now printed are respected every- ' oOJ JJHU(:KEI)l.\(iS AM) JJKHA IKS wlipre, and I cannot say as niufh for tlie Supienip court decisions of Montana; for if you are to believe some of tlie criticisms which I have heard lawyers of Montana make they are some of the measliest decisions ever written — and yet that is the character of judges you want to force upon us now. I am in favor of higher salaries and I do say that .$iOOO and IfSttOO is not loo much to pay our judges, and if you do that we will have decisions of the Supreme court of Montana which will command as much respect as the decisions of the Supreme court of Nevada. The Chairman put the question on the amendment, and a division being called for, the motion was carried by a vote of 32 to 29. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: .Mr. Chairman, 1 sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The amendment of the gentleman is not quite ger- mam to this portion of the section. .Mr. Carpenter, of l>ewis & Clarke; I offer the following amendment. The Chair: The Clerk will read the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. .Mr. Carpenter, of f^ewis i: Clarke; This is to settle the question of inili'age or no mileage. The Clerk read as follows: To be added to section 29; "No state or judicial officer shall in any case receive or be paid any mileage or any sum for traveling expenses except upon filing vouchers showing the amount claimed for mileage or expenses of traveling which have been actually paid by him, accompanied by affidavit that it was necessary in the discharge of official duty to travel the number of miles charged for." Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis i.**; Clarke: A person receiving mileage can receive no more than he has actually paid. He cannot speculate on his mileage. That does not proAide for mileage at all. It only limits the amount received m case mileage is jiroMdcd. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Middleton, of Custer; it seems to me if this matter is carefully considered that a provision sliould be made for mileage. Now, lake it in the districts where the county constitutes a district there would be no necessity for traveling at all; the court will be at the county seat. Take It ill other districts composed of three counties, where the judges are re- quired to hold four terms of court in each county, his actual necessary traveling expenses will be considerable, and there certainly should be a provision inserted here. 1 am in favor of the proposition of the gentleman from Lewis ^: Clarke that it should not be in the nature of mileage but in the nature of the actual necessary traveling expenses; but it seems to me in a district where the judges must necessarily travel from one county to another, that in order to make theip salaries equal to those where they have no traveling at all that there should be some provision for the actual necessary traveling expenses. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke; The point is simpl\- this, that in no case a person shall receive back more than he pays out. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from JjCwis & Clarke, and a division being called for the motion was cai'iied by a vote of 40 to 9. The Chairman; The question now recurs upon the original amend- ment of the gentleman from Yellowstone as amended by the action of the Committee, which is to strike out and insert. The question is to strike out after certain woi'ds and insert the salary of $3,500. The Chair put the motion on the amendment of the genllrman from Yellowstone, and tlie same was declared carried. The Chairman; The Clerk will read llic nincndiin'iil to the section of the gentleman from Custer. The Clerk read as follows: Amend section 2V) by inserting after the words "Supreme Court" at line 3, the words "and the District Judges'"; also strike out all the words after the word "stale" in line -4, to and including the word "taxation" in line 8, so as lo read: "The salaries of the .Judges of the Supreme Court and the salary of each District .Judge shall lie paid by the state." .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 desire to say here m support of tlial motion that I lielieve it to be perfectly right and proper for the stale to pay out of its treasury the salary of all the judges. I take it that all these judges, l)oth the judges of the Supreme and District courts, are CONRAD KOHRS PERRY W. McADOW ^ . ^^^t GEORGE O. EATON TIMOTHY E. COL,T^INS „,^,. ,„„c- HENRI J. HASKEI.T. JOHN E. RICKARDS ALEXAXUICR F. Bl'RXS COMSTITUTIUNAL COMVKNTIO.N 1889 305 stato olliccrs. It is appari-nt to overyonc, and a well known I'act. that m tilt' administration of justico, more than one-half of the time of our district courts is taken up in the trial of criminals for offenses against the laws of the Territory. It is also well known that the Territory is conijielled to pay its officers, such as sheriff, clerk of the court and others; it is compelled to pay the witnesses and the jurors, which amount to a great ih^al more than one-half of the whole expense of the court. The Lnited Stales has been paying the judges of the Territorial districts their salaries, and 1 see no good reason why the salaries of these judges should not be paid out of the state treasury, i'rue, it will be said it makes no difference. It is like putting the hand into one pocket and taking out money and imttiiig it in tlie other. 1 do not look at it in thai way; lint e\ en if I did these men are (ifficers provided foi' by the constitution, and in the strictest sense of the word are state officers and their salaries should be paid out of the state treasury by warrants drawn theri'fnim. We have in our small county enough to pay for punishing criminals for offenses against the laws of the state. There is no reason why we shimld saddle the whole expense, or even one-half of it; and I think it is an act of justice to the counties — it will simplify the method of procedure and method of doing business to provide here that these state officers in common with other state officers should be paid out of the state treasury iiistead of the treasury of the different counties. It will simplify the manner of doing business. Here where we have three counties in one district we have got to. divide it up and send around to the different counties and collect the pay for the attorneys and judges. I think we should not be incumbered by any. such burdensome method of doing business, and for that reason I have offered this amendment. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Mr. Chairman, I believe the judges should be paid by the state for another reason, that the matter of their salaries should be as far removed as possible from the people they are serving. It is certainly a state office. There cannot be any doubt about that, whellier they are williin the boundaries of a county or within the boundaries of four or five counties; and it seems to me it would add dignity to the court itself to remove as far as jiossible the matter of paying the salaries from the people of the county. .Now, another consuleratinn is this: in some counties of Moil*ana the warrants are worth only 60 or 75 cents, and in other counties they are worth par. I believe it would be better, better for the officer himself, better for the state and better for the system, that the state should pay all the salaries. The Chairman; The effect of the amendment which has been read would be to strike out of the section the words "In effect that the coun- ties shall pay portions of the salaries of the judges, and that the state shall pay the entire amount of the judicial salaries. The Chair then put the question, and a division beinjf called for the motion was carried by a vote of 38 to 16. Mr. Joyes, of Jefferson: 1 desire, .Mr, Chairman, to move to strike out the word "five" in the 9th line and insert the word "four"; so that the line shall read: "Judges of the Supreme Court shall be paid a salary of four thousand dollars per annum each.' Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & (JIarke; After the adoption of that amend- ment, Mr. Chairman, it will be necessary to strike out of the section all after the word "statf" in line 4 up to and including the word "taxation" in line 8. The Chair: The motion now is, in line 9 strike out the words "Five thousand dollars per annum each," and insert the words "Four thousand dollars each." .Mr. W'hitehill, of Deer Lodge; I move to amend that by inserting llie words "SIX thousand dollars.' The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The Chair will follow the custom in Legislative bodies on making appropriations and put the question on the smallest sum first. Mr. Joye,?. of Jefferson: 1 desire simply a word upon that proposition. We have flecided here that lh(> district judges shall receive only S3, 500 per annum. .Now, I believe that these district judges will lia\e a great deal more work to do than the judges of the Supreme court. 1 know that in the district— I don't remember the number of it — but the district constituting Jefferson. Beaverhead and Madicon. thai thai judge is goinx I'OG PHOCEKDI.NGS AM) DKHA IKS III li.iM' ;i t;ri'al di'iil iiiorf to do than any ,lllll^:r nl llic Sniin'nii' court, and I think thai if .Ki,50(J is a reasonahlc aniuuiil to ija> llir judyr of thai uislnct or any othi'r disliici in this Territory, tlien .'1>4.(MX) is I'liough to pay a judge of ttie Supreme court. .Now, we liiiow tliat we liave had able judges as judges of tlie Supreme court of tins Territory, Congress has only paid tlieiii $;J,000 per year. Those judges not only attended to tlie duties of judges of the appellate court, hut they also attended to tlie duties of the district judges, and there were only four of them where we will now have eight. I do not believe that the judges of the Supreme Court will tie occuiiied more than two months out of the entire year, and I believe •')!4,(MX) will he a large salary for the amount of work they will have to do: 1 helieve m the interests of econom>, as we are now about to start out on this state governnient, that we should look after all these matters: we should keei) down all these e.xpeiises, and we should not pay several thousand dollars a year where there is no necessity, and where we can get judges to do the work for less and just as good judges, too. We have got now an able supreme court in this state and we are only paying !$3,LNXi a year: and 1 b(>lieve that if $3,500 is just and commensurate for a district judge, that $4,000 will hi' plenty for the Supreme judges. That is as much as they get in a great many of the states oi this Union where they have more to do than in this state, and 1 think tlie amendment I have proposed here ought to he adopted. I'hi' Chairman stated the amendment. Mr. Hobmson, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. Chairman, 1 suitport the amend- ment for the reason assigned by the gentleman from Jefferson County. 1 do not helieve the labors of the SupTeme court judges for a nuniber of years yet to come will require over three or four months" work at the farthest: that would be amply sufticienl. When the first constitution of Montana was framed five yi>ars ago the salaries of the Supreme court judges 111 that constitution were fixed at •'{•■3,000. -Now I do not see any reason why a material change should occur from that time to this, where the cost of living lias very materially decr(>ased from that time to this, and the work and labor now would not be much more than it was then: and 1 think that $0,000 to the Supreme judges and $3,500 for the district judges, considering the amount of labor to be done, is not in proportion. I think $3,500 is amply sufficient for th(^ district judges: it is equivalent to $'1,000 to the practicing attorney. There is no expense whatever attached to it. 1 think we have as competent men on the bench now as we will in all human probability have on the Supreme bench of the state: and when we find those men willing to work for $3,000, I believe to give them one thousand dollars more would be a liberal and fair salary: it would not be parsimonious and in connection with the honor of the position we would secure competent men on the Supreme bench. The Chair put the question and a division being called for the motion was carried by a vote of 32 to 31. There being no further amendments to section L'O, the CliMk lead section 30, as follows: "No judge of the Supreme or District Court shall accept or receive any compensation, fee, perquisite or emolument for or on account of his office in any form whatever, except the salary iH-ovided by law." Air. Burleigli, of Custer: I move to insert after the woi-d "lee" in line 2 the word "mileage," so that if will read ".No judge of the Supreme 01 District court shall accept or receive any compensation, fee. mileage, perquisite or emolument for or on account of his office in any Imin what- ever, except the salary pro\idi>d by law."' The motion was seconded. The Chair put the qviestion on Ibe molion of llie genlli'iuan from lUisler and the same was declai'i'd carried. •Mr. Middleton, of (Xister: I wish to offer an aiiieiidinent. 'I'lie Chairman: The gentleman from Custer offers the lol lowing amendment which ttie Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Add to section 30 the following words: "together with actual necessary traveling expenses incurred in the discharge of official duty."" rile molion was seconiled. •Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: I understood the former molion was to add the word "mileage.'" II is no! in the nature of mileage: it is actual traveling expenses. CU.NSin I IIO.NAI. Cn.WKMIO.N ISH'J 307 Mr. Huyan, nl Silxcr How: Will tlu' gi'iitlemau kiudlN ili'luir llie nimmiiig of tlio words '■actual traveling expenses"? .Mr. AlKldleton of Custer: .\lr. (lliairinaii. ttie expression "actual necessary traveluig expenses cerlamly ouglil to place the board of county coniinission- ers. or \vlioe\er it iniglit be thai would audit the accounts, in a po.sitioii where they would be able to determine the nature of the claim. The gen- eral acceptation ot the term. 1 lake it, is the distance actually traveled and the amount actually paid for that travel. It occurs to me ttiat ttiis convention does not want to provide a limit whereby certain of the dis- Irict judges will be compelleii to pay out perhaps three or four or five hundred dollars a year out of tlieir salaries in order to get to the different places wliere they are obliged to hold courts: and it seems to me perfectly right that any public t)fficer whose duty requires him to travel should be reimbursed for what he actually pays out. 1 am not iii favor of a mileage prescribing a certain number of cents per mile: but he should be remu- nerated for what he actually and necessarily pays out m traveling Irom place to place in the distcharge of his official duty. .Mr. flogan. of Silver Bow: I take a somewhat iliffereut view ol' this malter from what the gentleman from Custer does. It appears to me thai the amendment which the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke oUereif and which was adopted, left the whole matter to the Legislature, and I llimk that IS the proper place for it. .Now, what "actual expenses' mean should be defined, m my judgment. One man might tlimk it necessary for lum to have four or five drinks of whiskey or a dozen of cigars that another man might not think necessary: and I think it ought to be left to the Legislature. There are quite a number of memiiers here who are strictly opposed to having anything come into the constitution that can safely be left in the hands of the Legislature, and 1 am one of them now in favor of leaving this matter to the Legislature. 1 think the grounds are already well enough covered. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer and the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to section 30, the Clerk read section 31 as follows: "Section 31. -No judge, or clerk of the Supreme court, or of any district court, shall act or practice as an attorney or counsellor at law m any court of this state during his continuance in office. There being no amendments to section 31, the Clerk read section 32 as follows: "Section 32. The Legislative Assembly may provide for the publication of decisions and opinions of the Supreme Court." 'There being no amendments to section 32, the Clerk read section 33 as follows: "Section 33. All officers provided for in this article, except- ing Judges of the Supreme Court, who shall reside within the stale, shall respectively reside during their term of office in the District, County, 'Township, Precinct, City or Town for which they may be elected or ap- pointed." Tliere being no amendments to section 33, the Clerk read section 34, as follows: "Section 34. \acaiicies in the office of the Supreme or District Court or Clerk of the Supreme Court shall be filled by appointment, by the Governor of the State, and vacancies in the office of County .\tlor- neJ^ or Clerk of the District Court and Justices of the Peace shall be filled tA appointment by the Board of County Commissioners of the Countv wlieri' such vacancy occurs. .\ person appointed to fill any such vacancy shall hold his ofice until the next general election, and until his successor is elected and qualified. A person elected to fill a vacancy shall hold office until the expiration of the term for which [he. person he succeeds was elected." "There being no amendments to section 34. the Clerk read section 3-3, as follows: "Section 35. .\o Justice of the Supreme Court or District Judge shall hold any other public office while he remains in the office to which he has been elected or appointed. " 'There being no amendments to section 3.5 the Clerk read section 3(3, as follows: "Section 30. .V cause in the District Court may be tried by a Judge pro tempore who must be a member of the bar, agreed upon iii writing by the parties litigant, or their attorneys of record, approved by the court, and sworn to try the cause: and m such case any oiiler. judgment or decree, made or rendered therein by such Judge pro temiion'. •jm PROCKEDIMiS AIVO DEBATES slial have the saino force and eltect as if made or rcndeird liy the enurt with the reguhir Judge presiding." 'there Ijeiiig no anieiidnienls to section 30, the Cierli read section 37, as tollovvs: "Section 37. Any Judicial oflicer who shall absent himselt from the state for more than sixty consecutive days shall be deemed to have forfeited his office." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 desire to dffer tlie following amendment: After the word "bar" in the second line insert the words "of this state": so thai it shall read "a case in the district court may be tried by a judge IJi'o tempore who must be a member of the bar of this state, &.(;.' The motion was seconded. The Chair put the molioii and the same was declare<| earned. Mr. Whilehill of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, I move that in section 9 the word "cause" be stricken out and the words "civil action" inserted therefor, i will just say that the w'ord "cause" is rather ambiguous. It may be held that this includes a criminal action, whereas the plain intent of the section is that it shouitl be limited to civil actions. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. Mr, Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. (ihairnian, 1 move to insert in section 37, after tlie words "shall absent that after the word "shall" and before the word "absent" the word "volniitarily " shall be inserted. The motion was secondeil. The Chair put the niolion ami the same was declared lost by a vote of 115 to 19. Mr. Warren of Silver iiow: .Mr, Chairman. I had an amendnuMit to offer to section lb, at the time it was passed but neglected to put it in. The Chair: The gentleman can go back by unanimous consent. Mr. Kobmson, of Deer Lodge: I object. Mr. Carpenter ol Lewis & Clarke: 1 desire to offer an amendment to the first section defining the jurisdictmn of the court. i'lie Chairman: 'the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke W'lshes to go back to section 1. Mr. Hobnison, of Di'er Lodge: I obj(.'ct. Mr. Carpenter, ol Lewis & Clarke: 1 supposed it was always in order. 'I'he Chairman: No sir, the rule is that after paragraphs are passed they shall be considered adopted. Mr. Ciark, of Silver Bow: 1 move the Committee do now arise and report progress with the amendments. .Mr. Whitehill, of Deer J^cidge: 1 wish to otter a section to be added to It and numbered section 38. The Chairman: The Clerk will read the section as offered. The clerk read as follows: Section 38. iNo Judge of a district cnurt nor of the Supreme court shall after Ihe first day of July, 1890, be allowed to draw or receive any salary unless he shall take and subscribe an af- fidavit before an officer entitled to administer oaths that no cause in his court remains undecided that has been submitted for ilecisioii for Ihe period of ninety days." Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I nidvc Ihe adoiilion of Ihe seclmn. The motion was seconded. Mr. ttobinson of Deer Lodge: 1 am opposed to that niolion. 1 know that It IS incorporated in the California constitution, and from all 1 caji learn if serves no good purpose whatever, 1 would ralher trust In Ihe honor of the judges lo write and file their opinions and let them take th(Mr own tune to it. 1 have never seen any cause for such a resolution, m all the experience of my life. The chair put the question on the said niolion and tlir same was declared lost. Mr. Carpenler of Lewis iV Clarke: 1 wish to offer an additional sec- tion. The Chairman: the gentleman from Lewis iV Clarke idlers Ihe lol- lowing additional secluui. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 39. The House of Hepresenla- tives shall have th(> power of impeacliment by a vote of a majority (d all the members elected. The Court for the trial of impeachments shall be composed of the President of the Senate and the Senators, twolhirds of the whole number elected being present. On the trial of any im- peachment against the (lovernor the Lieutenant Govei-nor shall not act as a member of Ihe cdurl. .No .ludicial (dticer shall exercise his office CUASTITL TIU.NAL CO.W EM lU.N 188;i 309 alter articles of iiniieaclurnMit shall have been preterred tn the ;>eiiate uiilil he shall have heen acquitted, and no person shall be convicted with- out, the concurrence ot two-thirds of the Senators elected. Judgment in the case of iiiipeachinent shall not extend farther than to removal from office and disqualificatmn to hold any office of honor, trust or profit in this state; but the party impeached shall he liable to i)rosecutioii and liunishnieiit according to law.' .Mr. Kobinson of Deer Lodge: 1 object to the introduction of it. rile (-■hairinan: On what ground? Air. Kobinson of Deer Lodge: On the ground that it is parliamentary law that you cannot put in as a substitute an additional section for what is really an amendment. This is really an amendment to j>eclion 1. and It is simiily put in here under the guise of a different subject. It is not germane. The Chairman: I'he Chair will be obliged to overrule the objection of the gentleman from Deer Dodge. Mr. J. 1\. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: .\lr. Chairman. I heard it argued here the other day, and 1 believe the gentleman from Cascade himself made use of an argument that struck me with some force, and that was so far as this question of impeachment is concerned it ought to be re- moved from political bodies. It is provided in this section that the im- peachment shall be laid with the t^enate, and I quite concur with the suggestion. But it seems to me that the amendment proposed by my col- league from Lewis & Clarke Mr. Carpenter puts this matter into the hands of the House of Reiireseiitatives. which is the popular body, and which is more than likely to be a purely political and one-sided body as compared with the Senate of the State, which under the constitution for m all probability we will adopt the provision which has been re- ported from the Legislative Committee providing that certain senators shall hold over so that they do not all go out at one time and so that in all probabilty there would be at least a portion of the senate of the state which will hold over for the period of two years, and would not be .subject to the criticism of representing any particular political excitement that might be on at the time of the impeachment. I think if it is desirable to relieve this from a political body as much as possible, so that it will, not be controlled by political considerations, that this power of impeachment ought to rest with the Senate instead of the House of hepresentatives, a body which is elected every two years complete. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: It is the custom, and in all con- stitutions the impeaching body is the lower branch of the legislature. It is so in the United States government: it is so in every state. The senate sits as the court. Sometimes the judges ot the Supreme court sit with the Senate. But this resolution removes it as far as possible from political influence by requiring a vote of two-thirds of the Senate to remove from office, although a majority of the House may prefer charges. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis eV Clarke: 1 misapprehend the scope of the amendment. Mr. .Marshall of .Missoula: I merely want to call the attention of the Convention to the report of the Committee on legislative departments. There is a provision reported which 1 think exactly covers the case. Heading "The House of Representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment. The concurrence of a majority of all the members shall be necessary to an impeachment. .\11 impeachments shall be tried by the Senate, and when sitting for that purpose the senators shall be upon oath. etc. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court shall preside. -No person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the senators elected." Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: As it has been reported by thi' com- mittee 1 will withdraw my proposition. .Mr. Hickman, (d' .Madison: T wish to offer an amendment as an ad- ditional section. .Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I object to any amendments going in. I will state that I do it for this purpose, because we are wasting a large amount of time in going over this thing in the Committee of the \\ hole, and in going over it again in Convention, as if it had never been gone over in the Committee of the \\'hole. It is a strange proceeding and in violation of all parliametary usages. The Chairman of this com- mo PHOCKEDl.NGS AM) HKHAIES mittee ollorcd an aiiiciKlincnt In IIh' iiili's. and lln' i-nniinittrc liaM' iinl rcportPfl ttai'k, and wu arc ciULsuinin^; sn iiiucti linu'. \\ ,■ j;n nyci all tills tlinij: HI the L-onvcnliun again. Tlic Chairman: Tlu' Cliair wduld Imld llial llic Cnniniitli'c of tlir \\ liiilc was instituted in parliamentary liodii's tor the MTy |iui-pos(> (it altordiiig the very widest scope to ainendineiit and deliale. ami it holds tlial tills section is in order and germane to the proposition. The clerk read the section as ottered by the gentleman trom Madi- son (Mr. Hictiinan; as lollows: "Section .\o court estalilished by authority of this constitution shall tiave jurisdiction to ln'ar, try or det.ermiine cases of divorce when the cause ni complaint shall have orig- inated outside of this state nor unless both the parties to the action were residents of the state at the time the cause of action occurred." Mr. Hickman of Madison: I iiio\e the adoption of the section. Tlie motion was seconde(f. 'I'he Chair put the motion anil the same was declared lost. Mr. fiiirleigh of Custi'r: 1 njove the committee do now arise and re- port. Tlie motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the sainy was declared carried. IN CUNVENTIUN. President Clark in the Chair. The Con\ent.ion was called to order. Mr. Magmnis, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. President, your Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 21, being the article on Judicial Departments and have made certain amendments there- to. They beg leave to submit the report and the amendments to the Convention. The l^resident: ^ ou have heard the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole on Proposition No. 21' and if there be no ob- jection the chairman will be allnwed the reipiisite time iii which to make a report. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move we do now adjouiii. The motion was seconded. Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: I move as an amendment the Conven- tion take'a recess until 8 o'clock. Mr. Ticlds of Park: Before that motion is put 1 wnuld like to ask leave of absence until Friday at 4 o'clock. The President: If there be no objection the gentleman will be ex- cused. The Chair put tlie iiuestion on the luotion to adjourn anil the same was declared lost. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move that the Convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition No. 14. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I move to amend that we take a recess until 8 o'clock. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Madison and the same was declared carried and the Convention took a recess until 8 o'clock p. m. Kecess. Kvening Sessiiin. S p. in. I'he Com eiitinn was called to order hy the Presidi'iil. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. l-!urleigh of Custer: 1 nio\e thai the t^onveiitidii lake up ihe consideration of Proposition No. 21, as repmied liack rnuii the ('.(niiinittee ol the Whole. The motion was seconded. The President: The CIrek has not yet made his report fnim ihe Com- mittee. Mr. Burleigh id Cusler: 1 will withdraw my motion llien. .Mr. Joy of Park: 1 move that tins Con\-eiitioii resoUe itself into Coiiimiltee of the Whole for the coiisid(>ratioii of Proposition .Nn. i',. rtie motion was seconded. CO.NSri I I IIO.XAL r.O.W hJMION ISS'.l 311 -Mr. .Mufniiiiis of Lewis \ Clarkr: .Mr. I'ri'Siili'iU. I Inipe that will not lio dmie. Tlu' clerks liavc tlu' matpiial tliat we liave been workiiiji on all the afternoon ani) we can go on and finish the Judicial schedule to- night. .Mr. Joy of Park: 1 withdraw my motioii. Mr. .Magmnis of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Pn^ideiit, the Chairman of the Committi'e of the \\ Inile on the Article on Judiciary is now ready to make his report. The President: The report of the chairman of the Committee of the Whole on Proposition No. 21. will now be read. The t:ierk read as follows: .Mr. President, your Committee of the \\ liole beg lea\e to report that they have had under consideration Prop- 'isitioii -No. 21, and return the sanii' hei-ewitli with the accomiianyni^' amendments, and recdinmeiid that as anieiuleil the proposition do pase. Section 13 IS amended to read as follows: "L ntil otherwisi' |iro\ ided by law said districts shall he constituted as follows: l-'irsl district. Lewis iV Clarke tiounty: second district. Silver Bow County: third district, t)ei'r Lodge County: fourth district, .Missoula County: fifth district, fieaverhead. Jefferson and Madison Counties: sixth district, (iallatin. Park and .Meagher Counties: seventh district, Yellowstone, and Dawsmi Counties; eighth district, Choteau, Cascade, and Fergus Counties." Section 29. IS amended by inserting the words "and the district .judges"" after the words ■"supreme court" on the third line. Also by striking out all of the words after the word "state"' on the fourth line to and including the word "taxation"' on the 8th line, so as to read ""rhe salaries of the Justices of the Supreme Court and the salary of each district judge shall be paid by the state." Also by striking out all the section after line ten and inserting the words ■"thirty-five hundred dollars per annum each." .\lso by adding thereto the following: "No slate vr judicial officer shall in any case receive or be paid any mileage or any sum for travelling expenses except U|)on filing vouchers showing that the amount claimed for mileage or expenses (d" travelling have been actually paid him, ac- companied by affidavit that i( was necessary in the discharge of offi- cial duty to travel the number of miles charged for." Section 31") was amemled by inserting after the word '■bar' in line two the words "of this state." Also by striking out the word "cause" on the first line and inserting in lieu thereid the words '■civil action." (Signed .MAHTl.N MAtil.N.MS. Chairman. .Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Mr. President, Section 30 was also amended, .\fter the word "fee" the word ■"mileage" was inserted on the recommendation of the gentleman from Custer. The President: If there be no objection the clerk will make the correction. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 now move .'\lr. President, that Proposition -No. 21. be put upon its final passage. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. The President: The Clrek will proceed to read by sections. If any amendments are desired to be offered they will be considered from time to time as we proceed. .Mr. Hobinson of Ueer Lodge: .Mr. President, in talking with a mem- ber of this Convention from Jeffersoa County I have come to the conclu- sion that I desire to renew the motion winch 1 made in the Committee of the Whole to amend by striking out the word where it occurs in creat ing the district as composed of the Counties of Beaverhead. Jefferson and .Madison — to strike out the word ■"Jefferson" and create* the nintti district out of Jefferson County. The President: That will be in order as tlie clerk reads the section. The Clerk read section one of Proposition No., 21. .Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. President. I arise to a par- liamentary inquiry. Ought not the first action of this Convention be to take action upon the amendments recommended bv the committee of the Whole The President: It is proper, I presume, to consider the amend- ments, but the sections will be subject to amendment in Convention. 312 FK()CEKl)I.\(i8 A.\U DEBATES Mr. Uurlci^'h (if Custer: 1 Ihmk, .Mi'. Prt'sidciit, thai the niotidii I maile was til lalic up ttic bill and adopt it as amended, and tlial would eover tile ground. Tlie President: Ihe Cliair did ncit understand tliat -Ihe yenllenian's motion covered tlie proposition to taice up and adopt, and it is very prop- erly suggested by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke that some action ought to be taken. Mr. .Maginnis ot Lewis & Clarke: The first duty is to act upon the amendments submitted by the Commdiee, either as a whole or sep- arately, and either to adopt or reject them, .Mr, liurleigh of Custer: Then I niii\e thai tin- report of tin' Com- mittee of the \\ hole be adopted. The motion was sei^onded. .Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis A Clarke: W ill that lia\e the eifei-l nf includui^; tlie amendments? .\lr. Burleigh of Custer: Yes, as 1 understand parliamentary usage. The President: The Cliair then understands tliat the motion of the gentleman will comprehend the adoiition of all the amendments as re- ported by the Committee of the Whole, The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer and the same was declared carried. The President: The Clerk w'ilL now proceed to read section by section and tlie sections will be subject to further amendment. The Clerk then read sections 1, 2, 3, i. 5, (i, 7, and H, as reported by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: 'I'here is a mislake in section 8, that 1 think was corrected before. The President: To what line does (he ^:eiilleiiiaii Irom iSilver Bow allude? Mr. Dixon of l^ilver Bow; Line 7. Tln^ (llerk read the wurd '■mem- bers" which should be "numbers". The President: If there be iid (ibjectnin Ihe Clerk will make the correction. Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge sent up an amendment. The President: the gentleman from Deer Lodge offers an amend- ment to Section 8 as follows: Amend section 8 by inserting after the word "years" in line 9 the words "after the first election as herein provided the judge oldest in commission shall be chief justice of the court, and if there be more than one commission of the same date, the court may select a chief justice from the judges holding the same.' Mr. VNinston of Deer Lodge: The section seems to be in doubt as to who shall act as chief justice after the first election: that provides that the member holding the oldest commission shall be the chief justice. iMr. Dixon of Silver Bow: 1 hardly think this amendment is necessar.v. The section provides that the chief justice first elected shall hold his office for three years: then a successor to him may be elected, and that seems to be as simple and as good a way as the one [iroposeil liy .Mr. Winston, 1 do not think there is any amJjiguily about it as In who \m1I be the chief justice. The President: The chair desires to state that there is no second to th(> amendment and nothing before thi' Com entiiui. Mr. Collins" of Cascade: I second the amendnienl. Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge: It simply says that the chief justice, and ill case of his absence the judge having the shorler term sliall pre- side in his stead. 1 cannot see that it says there that the member who is elected for the shortest term is the chief justice. II seems to me it leaves it in doubt. 'Ihal question was linui^ilii up when tins sectmn was discussed before. Mr. Whitehill of D(!er Lodge: The section I'l-ads that the chief jus- tice shall after the first election be elected for Ihe term of three years, but there is no pro\ision as to who his successor shall be. .\t the end of the three years it is" uiulerstood one ot these associate justices iiiighl bf' the clli(d' justice, and that e\idiMilly neeils some correclinii. 1 ha\e not. examined il cai-etully. 11 evidenlK lea\es Ihe mallei' m dnubl. and I believe if it [lasses just as it is there will he ambiguity m it. I think the amendment as jiresenled by the gentleiiian from Dt'oi- Lodge fully covers the case, and if 11 does change il. it simjily provides that the man CO.NSlin llo.NAL CU.NNEMION 1889 313 liuMii^' (111' slior(i\d that all actions for the recovery of, thi' possession of, quieting the title to, or for the enforcement of liens upon real property shall be commenced m the county in which the real prop- erty, or any part thereof, affected by such action or actions, is situated. Said courts and the judges thereof shall have pciwer also to issue, hear and deterinine, writs of mandamus, quo warranto, certiorari, i)rohib- itiou, injunction and other original and remedial writs, and also all writs of habeas corpus, or petition by, or on beh'alf of, any person in actual custody m their respective districts. Injunctions, writs of prohibition, and habeas corpus, may be issued and serxed on legal holidays and non- judicial days. There being no ameiidnients to Section II. the Clerk proceeded to read section 1^. as follows: "Section 12. 'llie State shall be divided into judicial districts in each of which there shall be elected by tlie electors thereof one judge of I he Dislrict (>oui't, whose term of office shall be four years, except that Ihe dislrict judges first elected shall hold their offices only until the general election in Ihe year IH92. and until their successors are elected and qualified. Any judge of the fiistrict Court ma,\ hold coui'l for any other district judge, and shall ilo so when reiiuired by law. There being no amendments lo Section 12, Ilie (llerk proceeded \o read Section I'S, as follo\^1s: "Section 13. Cntil otherwis(> provided by law. said districts shall be constituted as follows: f-'irsl District. Lewis & l^larke County, Second Dictrict, Silver Bow County: Tliird District, Deer Lodge County; Fourth Liistrict, Missoula County: l-'iftli District, Gallatin (>ounty: Sixtli District, Jefferson County: Seventh JJistrict. Custer County: J'^ighth District, Jleaverhead and .Madison Counties: .Ninth District. I'aik and Yellowstone Counties; Tenth District, Cascade and .Meagher Counties: Eleventh District, Fergus and Dawson Counties; Twelfth District, Choteau County." Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge sent up an amendment, to Section 13. The President: The gentleman from Deer Lodge offers an amendment lo section 13 as follows: Amend Section 13 by striking the word "Jef- ferson" out of the Fifth District where it occurs, and the word ".Meagher ' out of the Sixth District wliere it occurs and add the "Counties of Jef- ferson and Meagher shall constitute the .Ninth District.' Mr. Collins of Cascade: 1 move to amrnd by inserting "and Cascade" in the proper line. The l^residenl: I'lie gentleman from Cascade will please send his amendment up in writing. The Chair understands that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cascadt> does not in any way conflict with the amendment offered by iTie gentleman from Deer Lodge, and as they are separate propositions the iiuestion will be upon the amendment (dfered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge. The motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge was seconded. The Chair stated tlie quesiion. Mr. I'arberry of .Meagher: 1 can see iki gddd reason why that change should be made. .\cc gentleman from , Jefferson (ioiuity il it pro\ es an.'ithmg it only proxcs that Ihe judges that they have lia(j have been derelict in their duly. .Now if the judge had only three counties to attend to he certainly could give them four months each, and the whole argument provi's this lliat the judges probably or somebody else, whoever it was, had not done their duly; and tlii'y now CO.\STlTLTH).\Al. CO.NVE.N il( »N IS«9 313 have the privilege of electing a judge wlio will attend to his business and finish up the docket. If we start in to assume this debt and pay all the judges, why we will all want a judge — we will all want a district. .Now, It IS only a short time until the legislature meets and this certainly can do no harm where it is. Kailroads are being built, our counties are being developed, and it may be that w*- will all need a district each. We e.xpect to haM' a popiilalion double what we have now as soon as our mining districts are cipeiu'd up. But I do not see the necessity of chang- ing the present arrangement until we actually need the change and then the legislature can provide for the growing wants of the different counties. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge and the same was declared lost. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: I withdraw my amendment. The President: The gentleman from Cascade withdraws his amend- ment. If (here be no further amendments to i>ection 13 the clerk will read sectmn 1 i. The Clerk read section 14, as follows: "Sec. 14. The Legislative Assembly may increase or decrease the number of judges in any judicial district: Provided. That there shall be at least one judge in any district established by law, and may divide the state, or any part thereof, into new districts: Provided, lliat each be formed of coinpact territory and be bounded by county lines, but no changes in the number or bounrfaries of districts shall work a removal of any judge from office during the term for wbich he has been elected or appointed." There being no amendments to section 14. the clerk read section 15, as follows: •"Section 1.3. W rits of error and appeals shall be allowed from the decisions of the said district courts to the Supreme court, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law." There being no amendments to section 15, the clerk read Section to, as follows: "Section Iti. .\o person shall be eligible to the office of Judge of the District Court unless he be at least twenty-five years of age. and a citizen of the Liiited Slates, and shall have been admitted to practice law in the Supreme Court of the Territory or State of Montana, nor unless he shall have resided in the State or Territory at least one year next preceding his election. He need not be a resident of the dis- trict for which he is elected at the lime of his election, but after his election he shall reside in the district for which he is elected during his term of office." .Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I have an amendment to offer to thai section. ■f'he President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers to amend sec- tion 16 striking out in line i as follows: ""He need not be a resident of the district for which he is elected at the time of his eleclion." The motion was seconded. .Mr. .Middleton of Custer: That matter was ^ery fully discussed and considered in the Judiciary Committee, and I hope the amendment will not prevail. It is a notorious fact thai in many of the counties, and 1 presume it may be said in some of these districts as they are provided for. that there may not be such material as the people desire to put upon the bench, and the section as it stands now leaves it so that it is in the power of the people to elect such a lawyer from any part of the Terri- tory as they may deem a proper and fit person to fill that office: and I believe that the people should have that privilege. There are several counties that are comparatively new: they have little or no material — in fact no material worthy of being considered competent or fit to put upon the bench: and 1 submit that the matter was fully and carefully considered and that the Juificiary Committee were unanimous on that proposition that it should be in the power of the people in any one dis Irict to elect a judge from anywhere in the Territory: provided however Ihat from the time of his election he shall then become and remain a resident of the district during the term of his office. -Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I regret exceedingly to take issue with my friend on this matter. 1 know the consideration he has given to the subject, and I know it was talked over before the Judiciary Committee: but a different condition of things existed in the Judiciary Committee wlien this provision was inserted: it was provided that there should be Uvclvp (Ijstricl.s: ami inasmuch as (Juster county was made a S(>()aral(' district and Dawson cminly a separate district — (Interruplcd Mr. Haskell of Dawson: .No; no. Mr. Bui'leip'li of Custer: \\ ell. some other count\ : I will say perhaps Yellowstone or some nlhei' county. We looked around and we could not .see quite as good material as we wanted established m our county- (laughter'. But since then there has been a change. I'hei'e has been a consultation; we have now attached to Custer Cnuiity. \ellowstone and Ifawson Counties: We have certainly amjUe material there, and I am certainly opposed to sending out a dragnet all over God's heritage to get material to fill these positions. If we cannot get material to make judges 1 am in favor of disorganizing our county and attactiing us to some othei' county. I ex|M'cted to support the bill as it came from the eoinniittec, but it has been changed. As 1 said before, I dislike exceedingly to take Issue with my friend. 1 know he is a lawyer and a good lawyer. I know he is a man of deliberation, great soundness of judgment and one of the most conscientious men in the country; but still he is likely to be mistaken like myself and others. Mr. Middleton, ()[ Cusler: If 1 may have the indulgence of the con- ^enllon for a moment to reply to the gentleman, it is true that a change has been made in the number of districts. The report of the Judiciary Committee provided for twelve judicial districts. The article as it stands now provides for eight; but in my judgment there are districts now that are not any better off than they were vvheri we provided for twelve. Now. the gentleman, my colleague from Custer, is a lawyer, and 1 am incllHed to believe a candidate for the judgeship— (Interrupted' (laughter Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 deny that. Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: And he would represent to this Convention that he represents the sentiment of the voters of that district. 1 submit to the convention that 1 do not believe he does. I believe it is the right of the iieojile in that district, or any other district, to have such material on the bench as can be procured in the state of Montana. Individually. I was opposed to judges being elected at all. 1 believe that not only the district court but the Supreme court judges should be appointed by the Governor and confirniied by the Senate of the state. I believe it would insure a safer and better class of judicial officers than can be obtained by the voice of the people; but that did not seem to be the judgment id the committee, and I concurred in their pei'hajjs more mature jurlgmeni than mine. But the action of flie committee and its judgment seemeil to be unanimous that the people should ha\e the right to select judici.it material from wherever it could be had within the territory o\ .Montana; and although it may be true, as the gentleman suggests, that in the coun- ties of Dawson, Yellowstone and Custer there is such material as the people there desire to put on the bench. I submit if there is not, that the pfiople should have the I'ight to go outside of that district and select then' judge from the city of Helena or anywhere else that they can find a lawyer thai they believe is a fit, competent and proper [tersoii to put upon the bench, for ttiose reasons 1 hope the amendment will not obtain. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 am willing to leave this argument here lo tie determined by the Convention. Mr. Brazleton, of Deer Lodge: 1 am imt a lawyer; 1 am siniidy a Methodist; but 1 would suggest that if these counties lia\-e not legal talent enough to take care of their own .judicial interests, that we make another requisition on .Minnesota. (Iaught(>r) .Mr. Warren, o\' Silver Bow: This matter i-eiiimds me \ei'y much of a Democratic convention that was held in Deer Lodge in the early days. When the Bear lown delegation put a candidale fcir sheriff in nomination, .lohnnie O'Hourke arose and said: "1 am not acquainled with the geiille- m.an." One of the delegates arose and said: "1 lla^•e a lettei' from liim and he says he will lea\c Ireland ui two weeks, and will be liere before the day of election." (Laugher) 'That IS the way it is with these judges; they mighl want some gentle- man living here or in Butte (lily for a judge, provided he was elected he would go down to the district where they have no lawyers and procei>d to draw the salary. Mr. Maginius. of Lewis iS: Clarke: I move the previous iiuestion iqion the pending amendment. The molioii was seconded. CO.NSn 11 1 loNAI. Cd.W K.N I'lO.N ISSH 317 .Mr. \\ liitoliill, of Deer Liulg^c: 1 liO(ji> tlii» gentleman will withdraw Ins motion. 1 desire to oiler an amendnienl. not to inal^e a speerli. It seems to me the seetion ought to be amended. iMr. .Maginnis, of Lewis \- Clarke: I will withdraw in favor nf an amendment hut not a speech. .\lr. W hitehill. of Deer Lodge: 1 move to amend by striking oul mi line four the two words in the latter sentence so that it shall read "He shall be a resident of the district for which he was elected at the time of his election," and strike out all the balance. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: 1 accept that aniednnient. .Mr. Hobinson, of IJeer Lodge: 1 trust the amendment will not pre\ail. .Mr. ilogan. of Silver Bow: 1 arise to a jioiiit of order. There can be no debate. ■J'he l-'ri\sidenl : The question pending before the Convention is that the main question be now put. The gentleman offering that motion yiekled for tlie purpose of offering an amendiiient. That amendment has been accepted by the gentleman who moved the first amendment, and the question now is, shall the mam question be now put? The Chair put the question and the same was declared carried. The t^resident: The question now before the Convention is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge. ihe Clerk read the amendment. Ihe l^resident: I'his amendnii'iit was aceijled by Ihe grnlleman from Silver Bow. .Mr. .Middleon. of Custer: 1 call for the ayes and noes. The ayes and noes were called. .Mr. tlollms. of Cascade: In explanation of my vote I wisli to say that 1 am positively against carpetbagism; 1 am against putting it in our constitution; so that 1 shall vote "yes." The President announced the vote stood as follows: .Vyes — .\iken, Brazleton, Breeii, Buford, Burleigh, Burns, A. F.; Burns, .\. J.: Burns, Edward: Collins. Durfee, Dyer, Eaton, Gibson. Haskell, Hick- man, Hogan, Joy, Ivennedy, iMUppenberg. Ivohrs, .Marion, .Mitchell, Rains- dell, .Muth. Heek. Warren, Whitehill, Winston, Witter, Mr. President. .Noes — Liickford. Browne, Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby. Chess- man, Conrad. Cooper. Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Gaylord, (iillette. Goddard, Graves, Hartman, Hatch. Hersh field, Hobson, Joyes, ivnowles, l\anouse. Loud, -Maginnis. .Marshall .Mayger,. .Middlelon, .Myers, Parberry, Robinson, Hotwitt, Hickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. iv.; Toole, J. R.; W atson. .Vyes: 30. .Noes: 39. Absent: Bollard. Field, Hammond, Luce. .Mc.\dow, Webster. The President: The Clerk will read section 17. Tlie Clerk read section 17 as follows: "Section 17. The District Court in each county, which is a judicial district by itself shall always be open for the transaction of business, except on legal holidays and non-judicial days. In districts where two or more counties are united, until otherwise provided by law, the district judges shall fix the terms of court, [irovided that there shall be at least four terms a year held in each county." There being no amendments to section 17, Ihe Clerk proceeded to read section \H. as follows: "Section IH. There shall lie a Clerk of the District Court 111 each county, who shall be elected by the eleidors of his county. The Clerk shall be elected at the same time and for the same term as other county officers. The duties and compensation of the District Clerk shall be as provided by law.' .Mr. .Myers, of Yellowstone: I desire to offer an amendment. The President: Ihe gentleman from Yellowstone .Mr. .Myers offers the following amendment to section 18: Strike out the words "other county officers" in line 3 and insert in lieu thereof "the district judges." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on thi' motion of the gentleman from Yel- lowstone and a division being called for tlie motion was carried bv a vote of 10 to 13. The Clerk read the section as amended as follows: "Section 18. There shall be a clerk of the District court in which county he may be elected bv the electors of his countv. i'he clerk shall be elected at the same ol8 PHt)(:Kfc;i)I.N(.iS AM) DEBATES tiiiii' and lor the same term as the district judges. The duties and com- pensation oJ llie District Clerlv sliall tie as provided l)y law.' ;Mr. Colhiis, of Cascadi': 1 would like to ask what is the meaning ol this. !?hall the office be for two years or shall it he for six years? A member J' our years. Mr. iiurleigh, of Custer: T'lie first lerm will be lliree years. i'here being no further amendments to secliou 18. the Clerk read section 19 as fojlow^s: ■'Secliou 11). 'I'heie shall be elected a( the general election in each county of the state, one County .\ttorney, whose qualifi- calions shall be the same as are required for .Judges of the District Courts, except Ihat he need not be over twenty-one years of age. and whose lerm of office shall lie two years. He shall ha\e a salary to be fixed by law. one-half of winch shall be jiaid by the slate and one-half by the county HI winch he is elected: he shall in addition to said salary receive such lees as may be jirovided by the Legislative Assembly and shall perform such duties as may be required by law. :\lr. Middleton, of Custer: I desire to offer an amendment to that. 1 have nol gol ii prepared, but it is to strike out that pari of the section commencing with the word "elected" on line .5: strike out these words: "he shall 111 addition to said salary receive such fees as may be provided by I hi' Legislative Assembly." If the Chair will permit me a moment I will v.iile out the amendment. -Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Mr. President, while we are waiting for this amendment 1 would Iikc to suggest to the Judiciary Committee that this officer IS not elected at the time Ihat other officers are elected. Is that the intention of the committee? The President: Will the Chairman of the .Judiciary Committee answer I he question of the gentleman from Cascade? The Chairman of the Judiciary Committee was temporarily absent.) the i^residenl: The gentleman from Custer offers to amend section ID by sinking out after the word "elected" in line 5 the following words "He shall III addition, to said salary recenc such compensation as may be provided by the Legislative Assembly." The motion was secontled. .Mr. Middleton, of Custer: .Mr. PresidenI, I think e\ery lawyer in the house who has ever filled the office of a county or district attorney will agree with me that it is the worst system of comi)eiisation in the world ihat allows fees to a county attorney. 1 believe he should have a fixed salary, and should receive no other perquisite or compensation \vhate\er. 1 have known in my brief experieiu'e. many times of county attorneys being accused of prosecuting actions and making complaints, and all that sort of thing for the fees that were in il. against pi-rsons against whom a complaint never ought lo have been made: and if you permit the Legislature lo authorize the payment of a sinL:'le dollar in fees you will place ttie county aUorney in a position w-here those accusations I'an be made against him regardless of how groundless they may be. 1 have in my own experience spent three days in Ihe trial (d' a case m the i'l'ohate court that if I had procured a coiiMction would only have paid five dollars m fees and yet 1 was accused after having obtained a con\ic- tio:i of having made tliat complaiiil and prosecuted that case for the five dollars fees that were in il. 1 believ(> Dr. BurhMgh will hear me out in this position. He is the present county attorney tlown there and knows how that kind oX thing ojierates. .\nd in ^iew of tlie fad that wi' have seen fit in this constitution lo practically abolish the grand .jury, and throw Ihe entire matter of inlormalioii and complaint in the hands id' the county nitorney, it is impoiiant il seems lo me llial he should be placed where accusalions of Ihat kind cannot be made against him. ,\iid for those reasons 1 believe thai Ihe hands of Ihe Legislative .\ssembly should be fieri to such an exleiil that they cannot at any time provide for a countv altorney receiving a single dollar for fees, but thai Ihey shall lix such salary as they deem thai (dlicer should have and he should IniNe iioIIiiiil: hut a salary. Mr. Imrleigh, of Custer: I agree full.\ with my trieiid in what he has said in regard to the effect of this fee sysleni: bill not for Ihe reasons which III' assigns. Now, we are all a little sensitive — I sujipose some more so than others— and 1 think it likely that my friend is a little more sensi- tive than I am: Ins skin is a little thinner than mine. .Now, while I ilo nol CONSTITUTIONAL CO.W K.MIO.N ISSl) 310 boliovf !lio system is right. 1 do not care a continental wliat lie says atiout. nie in that respect. If I do my duty 1 do not care a ceii! what anybody says. Air. Knowies, of Silver Bow: I a.trree with the gentleman t< Ik all criminal matters. I do not belie\e there should be any fr'es in criminal malti'is. But there may be a great many duties assigned to a ■ I'unty nlliiriiey in civil mailers, and in those cases I think tln-ie oughl to h'' ■ees. there may be suits for the collection of taxes, and that will be imposed upon the county attorney, and in such cases as that they ought to have a reasonable fee. In prosecutions I am satisfied that the rule that the county attorney should not have tVes ought to prevail. 1 have known mysell where county attorneys have not only been accused of prosecutions on account of the fees that they could make out of tliem. but the accu- sations were true: (laughter and for that reason. I think that temptation ought to be removed; and 1 think if the gentlemen feel that the Legisla- ture would not be prudent about that matter, the best thing would be to adopt a plan by which county attorneys shall receive extra compensation only in civil cases. Mr. .\liddlelon. of Custer: I will accept lliat amendnienl if the gentle- man offers it. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like to ask the gentleman from Silver Bow one question, and I hope it will not be considered offensive. Has the gentleman ever been a county attorney? .Mr. Knowies. of Silver Bow: T have sir. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: \\ ell. then, of course I have nothing else tc say. Loud laughter Mr. Knowies. of Silver Bow: I know the position that the gentleman from Custer is in and the temptation he is subject to. .Renewed laughter Mr. Collins, of Cascade: -Mr. President, I was very sorry to see the gentleman accept the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow and 1 will have to insist upon a division of the question. 1 believe that a district attorney should receive no fee in either civil or criminal cases. The county attorney is the attorney of the board of county commissioners, and under the present system of laws he is the attorney of every other county officer. If you allow him fees in civil matters he will charge a good round sum for every liltle advice he gives, and he will see that the county officers or the board id' county commissioners or some remote jus- tice of tlie peace will ask him quite often for opinions. 1 believe it is as bad for a county attorney to charge a fee in a civil case as in a criminal case: in fact, it can be made worse: anrl 1 hope that the first amendment of the gentleman from Custer will pre\ail — that they be salaried officers, and that there be no fees attached to them. The Legislature will certainly give the gentlemen plenty of salary for the services that are performed. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: With the consent of the Convention, I will allow my amendment to stand and let that be voted upon and if that fails then I will move the amendment offered bv the gentleman from Silver Bow. The President: The question is then upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Custer as first stated, striking out in line 5 after the word "elected" the following words: "lie shall in addition to said salary receive such fees as inay be provided by the LegislatiM' Assembly." .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would like to see the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow first voted upon, so that if that fails I would like to have the privilege of voting against the whole thing. The President: The amendment is mclurled in the first amendment, unless the gentleman asks for a division. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I withdraw my request for a division of the question. The President: Then the question as placed before the convention shall be upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow that in all civil cases the county attorney shall receive such fees as may be provided by the Legislative Assembly. The Chair put the question on the motion and the same was declared lost. The President: The question now recurs upon the amemtment of the gentleman from (duster. ,i20 PRUCEKDlN(iS AM) DEBATES The Chair put the question on the amendment of the yi'utli'NKui liuui Custer and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read the section as amend(;d. .\lr. Loud ol Custer sent up an amendment. The President: The gi'ntlrman from Custer offers the foilownig amendment: .-\niend section 19 by strikmg out the words "e.xcept that he need not he over twenty-one years of age" on line 3. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion on the amendment of the gentleman from Custer and the same was declared lost. .Mr. Browne of Choteau sent up an amendment. The Fresidt'iit: 'I'lie gentleman from Choteau moves to amend section 19 by inserting the following in line i after the word "years": "except that the county attorney first elected shall hold his office until the gen- era, flection in the year 1892." The motion was second(>d. Mr. knowles, of Silver Bow: I do not understand the amendment. The Clerk read the amendment. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Do I understand lliat the cnunly attor- neys now^ holding office, unless Iney are dccapilatcd, hold until December ol the next year? .Now, what construction w^iuld that put (in the officers now in office? If it means to throw out all tlie county allorneys of this territory now, 1 am opposed to the amendment. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: It does not have that effect. The President: So far as the present officers are concerned, it wmild have no effect upon them. It states that the county attorney first selected shall hold office, &c. It would not comprehend anyone who has been elected in the past. Mr. tirowne, of Choteau: My amendmcnl was that In' slinuld be elected at the same tune with all olher cDunty officers. The Chair put the iiuestion on th(> molmn of the gentlemiui fi-oni Cho- teau and the same was declared earned. There being no further amendments to section 19, the Clerk read section 20, as follows: "Section 20. 'J'liere shall be elected in each or- ganized township of each county by the electors id' such township at least two Justices of the Peace, w-ho shall hold then- (dfices, except as other- wise provided in this Constitution, fur the lerm of two years. Justices Courls shall have such original jurisdiction within their respective' coun- ties as may be prescribed by law. excei)t as in thus Constitution otherwise provided; Provided that Ihey shall nni liave jui'isdiction in any case wlii're the debt, (Janiage, claim or \alue nl llie |ini|icrl\ iinolved exceeds the sum of three hundi'ed dollars. There being no amendments to section 20, the Clerk read S(>cti(iii 21 as follows: "Section 21. Justices Courts shall not have jurisdiction m any case involving the Idle or right of possession of real properly, nor TTi cases of divorce, nor \in- annulmeiil of marriage, nor in cases m equity: nor shall they ha\e power lo issue writs id' habeas corpus, mandamus, certiorari, quo warraiilo, hijunction in' prohilnlion. nor the iiower of naturalization: nor shall they liave jurisdiction in cases of felony, except as examining courls; nor shall criminal cases in said courls be prosecuted by indictments; but said courts shall have sucli jurisdiclion in criminal matters, not of the grade of felony, as may lie provided by law; and shall also lia\e coiicurreni jurisdiction wiilli Ihe Dislrict Ciuirl, in cases of forcible entry and unlawful delainer." There being no aiuendmients lo section 21, Itie Clerk read section 22, as follows: "Section 22. Justices Courls shall always be open for the l.ransaclion of business, except on legal holidays and nonjudicial days." There beiii^ no ameiidmeiits to seclion 22, the Clerk read section 2;i. as follows: "Section 23. .\piieals shall he allowed I roni Juslices Courts. Ill all cases, to llie Districl Courts, in such niiinner and under such regula lions as may be prescritied by law. 'There being no amendments to section 23. llie Clerk read section 2i. as follows: "Sectiiin 2i. 'The l,ei;islalive .\ssemlily shall lia\e power to provide fin- crealiiig such police and municipal courts and magistrates for cities and liiWiis as may he deemed necessary from tune tn lime, who shall have jurisdiclion m all cases arising under the ordinances of such cities and towns respectively; sucli police luagistrales iiia>- also be con- stituted ex-nllicio justices nl' Ihe peace tor llieir respecti\e counties." CO.NSin LTIO.NAL Ci ».\\ K.M'ION 1889 321 'Ihere being no aiiioiulnii'iits to sei-tion ji. tht> Clerk read section 2o, as follows: "Section 25. The Supreme and Uistriet Courts shall be courts of record." Tliere beinj,' no aniendnienls lo seclioii Sj, the Clerk read section 26. as follows: "Section 20. All laws relating lo courts shall be general, and of uniform operation tlii'iuighnul the Stale: and the organization, juris- diction, powers, prococduigs and practice of all courts of the same class 01 grade, so far as regulated liy law. shall be uniform." There being no amendments lo section 2(5. the (llerk read section 27. as follows: "Section 27. The style of all processes shall be "The State of -Montana' and all prosecutions shall be conducled in the name and by the authority of the same.' There being no ameinlmenls to section 27. the Clerk read section 28, as follows: "Section 28. I'here shall be but one form of Civil .Vction, and law and equity may be administered in the same action." There being no amendments to section 28. the Clerk read sectiun jy, as follows: "Section 29. The Justices of the Supreme Court and the Judges of the Uislrict Courts shall each be paid quarterly a salary, which ^hall mil be increased or diminished during the term for which they shall have been elected. The salaries of the Justices id' the Suiireme Court shall be paid by the State. One-half of the salary of each dislrict jud^e shall be paid by the State, and the other half shall be paid by the county, where only i)ne. county is included in a Judicial District: and where more than one county is included in a Judicial District, the said other half of said salary shall be paid by the counties included in said district, in proportion to the amount of assessable property in each of such counties according to tne last general assessment for taxation. Until otherwise provided by law, Justices of the Supreme Court shall be paid a salary of five thousand dollars per annum each. Lntil otherwise provided by law, the salaries of the several District Judges shall be as follows: That of the Judges of the bust-. Second and Third Districts, l-'our Thousand Dol- lars per annum each. That of the Judges of the Fourth. Fifth. Sixth, Seventh, Eighth. Tenth. Eleventh and Twelfth Districts, i'hree 'ihousand Dollars per annum each. And that of the Judge of Ihe Ninth District Thirty-five hundred dollars per annum." .Mr. .Middleton of Custer sent up an amendment. The President: The genlleman from Custer offers to amend section 29 by striking out the word "four" in line 9 thereof as amended in the Committee of the Whole, and inserting in lieu thereof the word "five." The motion was seconded. .\lr. Collins, of Cascade: I move the previous question. The President: 11 is moved and seconded that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Custer be adopted. The question before the Con- vention now is. shall the main question be now put? .Mr. Kickards. of Silver Bow: I arise for informalion. If the main question is put, does that preclude the possibility of this amendment being offered"? The President: No sir. The amendment has been previously offered. .Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: The effect of that amendment would be to give five thousand dollars a year to the Supreme Judges. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cas- cade and the same was declared carried. The Chair put the question on the amendment of Ihe gentleman from Custer. The ayes and noes were demanded. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Bickford. Brazieton. Burleigh. Cooper, Craven. Dixon. Durfee. Gibsoii. (iillette. <;oddard. Hartman. Hatch. Kennedy. Knippenberg. Knowles. .Mayger. .Middleton. .Muth, Myers, Ramsdell, Reek, Rotwitt, Rick- ards. Sargent. Schmidt. Slaideton, T'oole. J. R.: \\ hitehill. Winston, .Mr. President— 30. Nays — .\iken. Breeii. Brown, Buford, Burns, .\. F.: Burns, A. J.: Burns. Kdward: Callaway. Cardwell. Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Collins. Conrad. Courtney, Dyer, Eaton, (iaylord. Graves, Haskell, Hershfield. Hickman. Hobson. Hogan, Joy. Joyes, Kanouse. Ivolirs, Loud, Magmnis, Marrioii. .Marshall. .Mitchell. Parberry. Toole. Jos. K.: Warren. Watson. Witter — 39. Absent: Bullard. Field. Hammond. Luce. .Mc.Vdow, Webster — (3. The motion to amend was lost. J22 I'lUJCKEDI.NGS A.NJJ DEBATES .\Ir. Cr;i\i'ii. ni Lewis lV (^lai'ki': 1 have a sccdiid aini'iidmi'iit which I will sciui up. 1 ino\o Its adoption. The Pre.sidi'ul: The gciitlciiian tioin Lrwis A Clarke (Mr. Craveiu otters the lollowing: Amend .section :^y hy striking out on line the words "thirty-live hundred dollars" and inserting iii lieu thertx)f "loin- thousand dollars." The motion was seconded. -Mr. Joyi's, (d' Jetferson: 1 demand Ihe ayes and noes. The President: The question now is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis tS; Clarke. There is another amendment offered tiy the gentleman from Ueer Lodge (.Mr. Whilehill — "until otherwise provided hy law the salaries of Ihe Supreme .ludgi's shall be four thousand dollars." Mr. Whilehill, of Ueer Lodge: As it is now it is fixed irrexocahly — it there should be a desire (o increase the salaries il wnuld require a constitutional amendment. Air. .Maginnis, of Lewis iV' Clarke. "It shall not bi' increased or dimin- ished during the term for which they shall be elected." The President: The question now before the Convention upon which the ayes and noes will he called is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Levi'is & Clarke (.Mr. Craven) to strike out the words "thirty-fne hundred dollars" and insert "four thousand dollars." The Clerk called the roll. During the call of the roll, the Clerk was interrupted by Mr. Eaton of Park, who said: Mr. President. I arise to a point of order. Our rules are that no person shall vote upon any proposition in which he Is per- sonally interested. 1 believe the lawyers are directly interested in this measure, and 1 think none of them should have their names called. (Laughteri Mr. Bicklord, of Missoula: On the suggestion of the gentleman from Park 1 desire to be xecused from voting on the proposition. The l^resident: According to the rules anyone desiring to be excused from voting will have to make that excuse before the roll is called. The Chair announced the vote as follows: Ayes — Brazleton, Cooper, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Gibson, Gillette, God- dard, Hartman, Hatch, Joy, Kennedy, Knipponbei'g. Knowles, .Mayger, Mld- dleton, Muth, Myers, Reek, Rotwitt, Rickards. Sargent, Schmidt. Stapleton, ' Whitehill, Winston, Air. President — 27. iNays — Aiken, Bickford, Breen, Brown, Bufnrd. Biirleigh. Burns. A. F.: Burns, A. J.; Burns, E.: Callaway. Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauliy, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Courtney, Dyer, Eaton. Gaylord. Graves. Haskell, Hersh- field, Hickman, Hobson, Hogan, Joyes. Kanouse, Kohrs. Loud, .Maginnis, Marrion, Marshall, .Mitchell, Partierrv, Ramsdell, Robinson, Toole, Jos. K.: Toole, J. R.; Warren, Watson. Witter— 42. Absent: Bollard. Field, Hammond, Luce, Mc.Adow, Webster— (i. The amendment was declared lost. Mr. Joy, of Park: I w'ould like lo enquire what, was done with tin- amendment of the genlleman from Deer Lodge (.Mr. Whilehill'. I did not hear that put. The President: That amendment is next in order. The gentleman I rem Deer Lodge (.Mr. Whilehill) moves to amend section 29 by inserting the words — the motion does not say where — "until otherwise provided by law the salaries of the said judges shall be four thousand dollars." Mr. Bickford. of .Missoula: I call the altenhon of the Convention lo the fact that at the end of line 8 the same words occur — "uiilil otherwise pro\ideil by law the judges (d" the Supreme court" i*tc. The l^resident: That was stricken out in the (^.ommiltec of Ihe Whole and thi' amendment adopted. I'he amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge was secoiiiled. 'I'he Chair slated the question. .Mr. .loyes. of Jefferson: Tliats the motion we just voted on. Air. Hotiinson. of Deer Lodge: We \oted on that proposition. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: 'I'he gentleman from Deer Lodge, as I understand, virtually moves to restore the words stricken out in the Committee of Ihe Whole. Mr. Whitehill. of Deer Lodge: That's all. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge and the same was declared carried. CONSTITUTIONAL C.O.W KM'K >N 1880 323 J'lir I'ro.-iidriU : Ai'i' IliLTi' aii% riirlluT annMulinvuls tn Ih' ulti-ri'il tu jocl.Kin 29? ir not. the Clerk will proceeil id read sPL'tioii 30. .Mr. iSlapletou, of Silver Bow: 1 desire hi I'ull the atteiilinii ol lli^' i;ci'i\t'iiliou In seetiou 19 that was passed (i\ef. I think we ha\e made a mistake. It reads in this way: "There shall lie eleeted at the general eleetioii in eaeh eount.v of the state one eounty altoniey whose ijualifiea- tuiiis shall he the same as are required for jiulges of the district courts e.xceiit that he need not be ovei' twenty-one years of age." Now, I submit that according lo that, if he was ten years old he might be elected to Ihe office of county attorney, or twehi' nr tliiiiei'ii or aii>- other age. 1 desire to submit an amendment to thai. 'The l^resident: If there be no objection the amenrlment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow will be entertained. The gentleman ^iNlr. staiiletoii offers to amend section 19 by striking out the wortls "need not 111 line 3, and inserting after word "be" the words "must be". The motion was seconded. .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bmv: lines llial amendment contemplate that he must be twenty-one years ot age and that lie cannot be any other age? l^aughter .Mr. Stapleton. of Silver Tiow: 1 Ibink Ihe word "shall" would be a better word than "must." The President: The seclimi will read then "There shall be elected at the general election m each county in the state, one county attorney, whose qualifications shall be the same as, are required for judges of the district courts, except that he shall be over twenty-one years of age." The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Stapletou' and the same was declared carried. Mr. Hickman, of .Madison: .Mr. President, before proceeding to section 30, 1 would like lo call thi' attention of the Coiixention lo section 29. 'There will be a conflict between that section and section 30. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: There is no necessary conllicl. Mr. W iiiston of Ueer Lodge called for the reading of section 29. The Clerk read section 29. There being no further amendments to section 29. the Clerk read section 30 as follows: "Section 30. .No .judge of the Supreme ("ourt or District Court shall accept or receive any comipensation, fee. perquisite or emolument for or on account of his office m any form whatever, except the salary provided by law. There being no amendments to section 30, the Clerk read section 31 as follows: "Section 31. iSo Judge, or Clerk of the Supreme Court, or of any District Court, shall act or practice as an .\ttorney, or Counsellor at Law in any court of this Slate during his continuance in office." There being no amendments to section 31, the Clerk read section 32, as follows: "Section 32. The Legislativi" Assembly may provide for the publicalion of decisions and opmions of the Supreme Court." There being no amendments lo section 32. the Clerk read section 33, as follows: "Section 33. All officers provided for in this article, except- ing judges of the Supreme Court, who shall reside within the Stale, shall respectively reside during their term of office in the District, County, Township, Precinct, City or 'Town for which they may be elected or ai)- pomted. ' There being no amendments to section 33, the clerk read section 34, as follows: "Section 34. Vacancies in Ihe office of the Supreme or Dis- trict Court or Clerk of the Supreme Court shall bv filled by appointment, by the Governor of the state, and vacancies in the office of County Attor- ney, or Clerk of the District Court and Justices of the Peace shall be filled by ap|)ointinent by the Board of (bounty Commissioners of the County where such vacancy occurs. .V person appointed to fill any such vacancy shall hold his office until the next general election, and until his successor is elected and qualified. A person elected to fill a \acancy .-hall hold office until the expiratidii of llie term for which the person he succeeds was elected." 'There being no amendments to section 34 the Clerk read section 35, as follows: "Section 35. No Justice of the Supreme Court or District Judge shall hold any other public offi(-e while he remains in the office to which he has been elected or appointed." 324 . l>Hl)(:KEL)I.N(iS A.NIi I iKBATKS riicrc Iiciii.l: iki .■iirn'iKlintMits to sci'tinn o5 I lie Clerk n'iiil section 31), as toliows: "Scclioii 3t>. A cause in ttie District Court may Ite tried |)y a Jud^f |)i'<> leinpore wiio must be a incin'ljpr of tlie tiar, agi-ecd upon in wntiiiK Ijy flu' iiai'lies litigant, or tlieir attorneys of record, approved by llie court, and sworn to Iry the cause; and m such case any order, judg- ment, or decrei>. made or rendered tlierein by such Judge itro tempore, sliall liave the same force and etlect as it made or rendered by the court with the regular Judge presiding." There being no amendments to section 36, the Clerk read section 37. as follows: "Section 37. Any Judicial officer who .shall \olunlarily absent himself from llie slate for more than si.xty consecuti\'e days shall be deemed to have forfeited his office." Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: The word "voluntarily" as read by the Clerk was stricken out this afternoon. I'he word as suggested by the gentleman from Custer' Was \oted down. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke; 1 understand it I In' oilier way, that the word "volunlarily " was put in. Mr. Kobinson, of i)eer Lodge: It was stricken out. • Mr. Magmnis, of Lewis & Clarke; I slaiid corrected then. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move the adoption of Proposition 21 with the amendments. ftlr. Middleton. of Cusler: .Mi'. Presideiil. if the geulleuian will with- draw the motion tor a moment. 1 lune an amendment to Section 30. The l-'resident: The gentleman from Cusler ;.\li'. .Middleloip offers to amend section 30 after the W(U-il "salary" m line 3 by iiisiM'luig the follow- ing words "and such mileage as may be." Mr. Middleton, of Custer; If I may lia\e a momi'iil |o explain, there seems to be a clausi' of limitation in section ;W limiting the Legislatuie to the matter of such salaries as it m,ay fix. and tying its hands as to tne matter of allowing mileage nolwithstanding' Ihe amendment as offerei.1 by CiO\'. (Carpenter lo the section befori'. .My amendment would make it read ".\o Judge of the Supreme or District Courts shall accept or receive any compensation, fee, perquisile or emolument for or on account of his office 111 any form wliateM'r except Ihe salai\ ami such mileaf;e as may be pro- vided by law." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the tjueslioii nn llie mniKni id' the ^enlleinan from Cusler (Mr. Middleton and the same was declared lost. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I now renew my molion on llie adopimn of l^roposition 21 as amended. The President; There is a new section offered by the gentleman from .Meagher (.Mr. I'arberry' which reads as follows; "There shall be no dnorce granted by the courts of .VlonUina except where the cause for divorce has occurred in this state when both parties to the suit are — " (interrupted) .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I arise to the point of order thai it is not in order to introduce an amendment at this stage of the proceedings. The President; ihe Chair rules that it is in order. Is there a second t.) the motion? The motion was seconded. The President (reading ; "There shall be no diviu'ce granlerl liy (he courts of Montana except where the cause for divorce has occtirreil in this state, and when both iiarties to the suit are present in cnurt." It is moved and seconded that Ibis section be added to File 21. Mr. barberry, of Meagher; .My oti.jecl in inlroducmg that section is simply Ibis. 1 have lislened with a great deal of salislaction lo the able arguments adduced by Ihe honorable genllemaii from Lewis iV Clarke (.\ir. 'J'ooh" in regard lo the witnesses being brought face to face with Ihe accused. In this matter 1 would say that it probably belongs more |)roperly to Ihe ijcgislalure Ihari to Ibis convention, but for twenly ywirs we lia\e been legislaling, and I see no such iirovision as dial on our staliil(> liooks. It IS a fact well known lo everybody here that 11 has been more than once in this Territory thai men haxe left their wix'es in other stales and in other nalions ami hiave come to this Territory and have brought any ai'i-usalion against llieir wives Ihat they saw fit. .Now, the wife has no o|iporluiiily of coming here, jirobahly no financial ni(>ans, and knows nothing about a suit. .\ow. I think it is high lime, iir.ismuch as they are liol allii\\-<'d In \(i(e and llie\ rely upiiii us 1(1 priileet Iheni by co.nsthijtionai. co.wkmio.n is,s;i 32.1 pas.siiif.' such laws as will j^im' Ihcni iii'iilcctuiu— it is uciUiui^; bul riKlit Itiat a tciiirtli' sriiuikl have tlif same right that, a male has to proti'ctioii in this case. A mail has no riyht to roimo from Ohio, Kentucky or New ^ork aiiil li'a\i' his wife and family tlicrc and bring any accusation aKaiiist her that he sees fit. and when she has no (ipporfunity of defending herself, and pi'ohably never hear of il. And I say that liiiasmuch as tlie i.egislature has failed to recogni/.e lliis nialti'r in all of its legislalion. it is nothing but right we shoidd incorpcu'ate il in our constitution. .Mr. iSlapteton, of Silver How: I would like to have tlie proposed section read again. 'the Clerk read the same. .Mr. 8tapleton, of Silver Bow: I hoiie tliat will not pre\ail,. I believe tliat It would be much better to leave it to the Legislature than take it np ih this Convention. It is surely a matter of pure legislation. The Legislature is able to take care of its owin affairs, and t can see tliat lliere may be cases where great injustice might be done by a thing o\' that kind; for instance, where the bushand would desert his wife m some state (II- where a wife would ilesert her husband and Ifie ileserted partycameliere afterwards that would e.xclude them entirely from ever getting a divorce, because you can never get them into coiirl, and tliere is no way of getting tliiMn into court if they do not desire to come. There would ha\e to be personal service or publication of notice, and in either case the parties are not bound to come into court. Under that condition of affairs it would be impossible to procure a divorce. If a man should desert Ins wife 111 Washington Territory and be should never return to her and she should leave hov home in \Vasbington to reside in Montana it would be impossible for her to ever get a divorce, and that would surely be very wrong. If a man m Idaho should be cruel to his wife and leave her and she would come here and make Ibis her home, she would have no redress whatever. Slie miglit commence lier suit and have publication of sum- mons, but unless he came into court, according to this section, she would be unable to get a divorce. 1 know a great many private divorces are obtained but 1 think this is going to the other extreme, and I think it should be left to the J^egislatur(\ .Mr. Callaw^ay, of iMadison: I have had considerable practice in matters of divorce, and 1 tbmk the object of the gentleman's section as proposed II' this case is about riglil, but il certainly would be a hardsliip m one respect, and that Is wherein you would require lioth parties to be in court. I therefoi'e mo\e to amend the iiroposition by striking out all of the section after the word "state." The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the amendment offered by the gentleman from .Meagher be amended by striking out all of tlie words of that portion of tlie amendment after the word "state." The Clerk will read the amendment as proposed to be lameiided. The Clerk read ttie same. -Mr. -Magmnis, of l^ew-is \ Clarke; I will call llie altenlion of the Con- vention to the fact lliat if there are two people in this State inclined to liave a cause loi' divorce all they w^ould liaxe to do would bi^ to go out- side of it and go scot free. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 trust this Con\eiilion will \ole tin' whole proposition and ainendinent down. l-"rom the way the Con\i'iitioii IS swinging m certain matters I would be rather inclined to favor the proposition sliowii me a moment ago by a legal gentleman from Lewis >S; t;iarke County [irovidmg that there shall be no legislatnc assemblies in the Stale of .Montana wbatexer. but that tins Constitutional Con\eiitioii shall meet biennially, it seems to me to be assuming the functions of a Legislative Assembly, and legislating e\-erything out of sight, .Now, in examining a distinguisheil aulhority — tliat is to say, the only work in tlie t Intel Sattes on tliat proposition — .Mr. Jamieson, a distmguislied lawyer of Chicago, on constitutional conventions, where he i|uotes authm-ities and lays it down that a constitutional convention has no power to legis- late: tiiat w(U'k belongs to the legislative branch of a go\ernment entirely, and should not be brolght up in a constitutional convention, and whatever the courts declare legislation in the work of the constitutional convention the courts will strike that out. .Now, then, there are many (luestions that it is difficult to determine whether they fall within the province of the constitution or are legislation, but wliere\er they do, and they reach ■Si iifoposition with the arnendiiients is something lieyond our province and shouUI be voted down. i\lr. Conrad .sent up a subslitule for the anii'iidinenl. The President: The ^jenlleiuan Ironi Clioteau .Mr. Conrad nio\es to amend by substituting the tol lowing: I'lial no divorce shall be granted on the ground of desertion unless said desertion acliially occurs iii the state of Montana or in the Territory belore it liecaini' a slate. ■Jlie motion was seconded. .Mr. Hartnian, ot Ciailatiii: I nio\e lo lay the original ]iroposition and both amendiiKMits on the table. The motion was seconded. The Chair i)ut tlie (|uestion on the motion of the genllenian from Cialla (m :\lr. Hartnian and the same was deelared carried. .Mr. Maginnis. of i^ewis i.V Clarke: I move that l^ropositioa l'I be now aitopted and become a part of tin' Constitution, and on this I deiiiamt the previous que.stion. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of l,ewis >N; Clarki-: 1 move to suspend the ruii's and lecoinmit this to the .Judiciary Committee. It is full of imperfections brought about by indi.scriminate aniendments, and I think it ought to go back to the Comnuttee. T'he chairman of the Committee will bear me out in the suggestion, 1 think. 41r. Dixon, of Silver How: The amendments have been amended so that no one can tell what they mean; the section in relation to the (^hief Justice and the section in relation to the county attorneys especially, there is one provision that says the judges shall have mileage ii filing certain affidavits, and another section says they shall not have mileage under any circumstances. The only care 1 have about the matter is that tlie language and idea may he expressed in such shape that anyone reading it hei'eafter can form some conception of what they mean; Iji'cause if thi're are any inconsistencies, jiarticularly in judicial matters, and people cannot find out what is meant, tlie first thing they will say is that the lawyers themselves made it ambiguous in order to make contentions and gi\e them a chance to have lawsuits. 1 therefore would like to have an opportunity to put the amendments in at least intelligible shape. The President: the question is upon the iiroposition lo reconiniit to the Judiciary Committee. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 lliiiik the motion was on llie ado|ition ol the previous question. .Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis iV Clarke: Tliat motion was willnlrawii. .Vlr. Burleigh, of Custer: I renew it. Mr. Holnnson, of Deei' Codge: 1 thoroughly endorse the views ot the gentleman from Silver Bow (.Mr. Dixon and the mover of this proposi- tion, the gentleman from Lewis i^i: Clarke (Mr. Toole'. There has crept into this a lot of nonsensical verbiage that has destroyed the original matters so thoroughly and well digested and considered by the Judiciary Committee. It lias been done thoughtlessly by men who have hail less experience, by men who iia\e given it less thought than the Judiciary Cominittee did, and it has |)laced the wliole matter m a position wliei'e 1 think It ought to go lo the Judiciary Coimoittee to be corrected. .\lr. Collins, ot Cascade: I move an amendment to that, that it be re- committed to the Judiciary tlommittee with instructions to amend as the views of the Convention indicate, and it is understood lliat llieit- shal: be no new matter introduced into the article. 1 he amendment was secondeil. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 acceid that aiiieiidment. !\lr. Maginnis, of Lewis ^: Clark(>: I would ask that when the Judiciary Committee return it that they report if it will be subject to go again through the Committee of the Whole and through all the processes vve have put it tlirougli today. I lliinli it would have to take that course un- less the rules wiM'e suspendeil. CO.NSri fL IIO.NAI. <;ssary lo adopt la constitution that is intelligible, it seems to be the judgnii'iit of the chairman of the Judiciary Committee that that is the situation so far as some of these articles are concerned, and 1 think he is imiIiIIimI |o some consideration in matters of this kind. Mr. J. K. Tooli' of Deer Lodge: I ha%e kept out of this discussion all day, because 1 thought it was in the hands of good people — people com- petent to manage it. I desire to say one word now. I followed those amend- ments with a good deal of agony, I might say, and 1 can see now that there are some imperfections so glaringly inconsistent tliat a man can see them with liis eyes shut: one, notably, where the chairman of that (ommiltee states that one section pro\ides that there shall be mileage under ciM-tain conditions and anolln'r piii\idcs that there shall be no mileage under any circumstances, .Mr. .Magmnis of Lewis iS: Clarke: I would like to li-ave tlie gentle- man tell nie where those two sections arc m the report? .Mr. J. K. Toole of Deer Lodge: Seidions 20 and 30. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis \- Clarke: There is nothing of the kind. Mr. J. H. Toole of Deer Lodgi': I have not got the amendments here, .Mr. President: but section 29 was previously offered by Gov. Carpenter. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i^ Clarke: The section proposed by Gov. Car- penter does not provide tliat mileage shall be given to any officer. There IS no such provision adopted by the convention. ,Mr, J. H. Toole of Deer Lodge: If permitted, 1 will say this much: 'I'hat 1 am willing to admit tliat the men who have come here — business men and men following other avocations m life — are not competent lo take this thing up after it has been passed by sixteen of the legal lights ol the Territory and men who are competent and should be competent by roason of a life-long training upon matters of this kind, and to take a thing from their hands, hash it and rehash it and ttien let it go intii the constitution. 1 believe that when the constitution conies to be incor- porated it will be found there are inconsistencies in it, and I think it is proper and right we should deter somewhat to these gentlemen who are qualified by reason of their intelligence and by reason of their positions at the bar — positions that reciuire brains, intelligence and qualifications .such as make first class men — honest, honorable, straightforward and in- telligent people. 1 believe they are better qualified, particularly in re- lation to matters concerning the judiciary, than others. 1 say it ought to be referred to them, and if it conies haidv here again, if I get a chance, I shall move it be adopted without debate. Mr. Hogaii of Silver Bow: In relation to this matter, I would say I do not favor the recommitment nd from Deer Lodge '.Mr, Toole' when he says this was hashed and rehashed, i do not think there were any amendm»»nts offered by any one e.xcepl tliose whose profession is that of lawyers, and I think per- haps some of those gentlemen understood why tiiey were offering the amendments. I do not get up here to discuss the legality of it, but I ■.UH I'HOCKKItlMiS AMI DKHAIES (Jo say tlial lliusc two si'I'Ikiii- wliicli arr' sliiJ In br Cdiil lictiii^: an' not conllicliiig, and 1 certainly do not laxnr llic I'l'cdninutnii'nl dT tins prop- osition. If you.rerominit to tins cnniniittrc you liavc a rij;lit to rccomiiiit to any commitlep. Mr. Maginnis of l,i'\vis \ (llarkr: I liavr ttic ino.-;! pnifoimd regard, as every one lias, for the eliairiiian nl llie .ludii-iary (jinuiiitlee, and I would be glad to suliniit tins to the .Judiciary (^onunittee: Init \vr can not do what the gentleman froin Deer Lodj^e county pruposes to do, lo place this in tlie hands of the coininillee. I'here is nn ride that yiui can adopt that wont make it subject to the decision ul I lie majority ol tins convention; and indeed Ihat is what the majority dt tins conxenion, til or unfit, were sent here for. I say this without any feeling, liecause on every vote, with the exception id' the reduction in salaries, I lia\e voted to sustain the report as it came from the hands of the Juiliciuirx C.nm- inittee. But 1 am satisfied, and the only I'cason I enter my protest is, that U will only result in delay and still not do any sort of ,l;ooiI. .Mr. Dixon of Silver How; I just desire to say a word. It the j;i'ntle- man from Silver Bow, or any other gentleman u|ioii this lloor, Itiinks that I have, or that any other member of the judiciary committee has, any fiarticular pride in lia\ing tliis I'eporl adopted, he is entirely mistaken. Ihere have been some ameiKiments ollered of which I do not entirely ap prove, but that is anotlier thing. The only object 1 lia\e in relation to this matter is not to sustain the report of the Judiciary Committee. What- ever compliments may have been paid to them by gentlemen on this floor, I can say for tlieiii that they do nol claim any superior wisdom in this convention, iior do they claim any favors of this convention; and if gentlemen are willing to adopt this report as it stands, all I wish to do IS to disclaim on the jiarl of myself and my friends the resiioiisibilit\ of It; and I certainly sliiall reserve lor myself the privilege of voting against an incomplete, contradictory and eiilirely unsatisfactory article in the coiistitiilion. :\ly only desire was to ha\ e this recommitted in order that It nuglit be |)iit 111 stiape; that was all. If the coinmiltee are able to get, from these amendments, at wliat llie inlention of the convention was, I shall certainly be very glati to gi'l at il. I liave no feeling whatever about It. I want the majority of the coii%eiiiion to rule; but I want to say that if tins matter is placed on its final passage now, so far as I am con- cerned, I shall \"ote against it. .Mr. Burleigh of Uuster: I desire to make a suggestion here wliicli seems to me will let us out of all tins trouble and save time; and thai IS, Ihat we do not take a final vote upon the adoi)tioii rd tins proposition to-iiiglit, but Ihat the convention adjinirn and give an opportunity for gentlemen to-morrow morning, after having examined the matter, to come in here and suggest sucli amendments as may be necessary to remove any ,a))parent ambiguity lii-re in the ditlerent sections of this bill. U may be done, it seems to me, without rererring the matter to the com- mitlee again. It will save a day or l,vv\) of time, it will save going over It again in the committee (d' the whole and going over it again in the convention, and 1 agree fully with my friend, .Mr. .Maginnis, that there IS no other way to get it before the (convention if we recommit it; and it seems to me, if we let the matter rest until tomorrow for the cliairinaii of the Judiciary Committee and the honorable gentleman Ironi lewis \ Clarke to come here and make such suggestions by way id aineiidiiienls as may be necessary, that we can then acquiesce in the amendments lliat are suggested, make the proijosition all right so Ihat Ihere will be no inconsistencies m it, and take it up and pass it; and I tliend'ore make that suggestion, and that llie coiivenlioii do now adjourn. -Mr. J. K. Toole fd' Lewis iV: Clarke: 1 am willing to acci'iit the aimnd inciil. I think lliat will answer the purpose. 'I'here is no sort of personal feeling about this matter. We simply desire jo put this instrument in some proper sllape. 1 wish the gentlemen of the convention lo feel some just iiride, especially if it is done properly. II is the idiarter (d liberties of the people of this State. It is not like a piditical platform, made liy a p(ditical convention, to be disregarded as soon as promulgated; tiut It remains there permaneiilly just e\a(dly as we adopt it. Tlieridon' we ought to be very particular about it. especially where delecds and imperfections have been calleil to llie attention ol' llie conv enl ion. CU.N!>rH'L TIONAL CO.W b:M'l().\ I.SS'J ■o^^ Mr. C.alhiway (if Madison: W i' air lii'ii'. as 1 undei'Slaiul it, to make a ciiiistiluliiiii liii- the Stall' of .Muntana. Ihis is not ordiniary loErislation. ■riii> c-liild unljni-n. 1 1i(i|k', will In- sittiufj; in tlic legislature iif Ihis Slate when tills constitution will slill be in force in Montana, unamended: and I do nol care what cominitteo it may he, if tliey have not perfected I lieu- work, or if the convention so amends it as to confuse it, I would like to see tliat mailer referred to the committee for revision. Tlie Cli-air then init the question on the motion on the reference ol said proposition to the judiciary committi'e for the purpose of reporting hack any necessary ami'iidments, and a vole heing taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh of Custer ii'iiewed his motion to adjourn. the motion was seconded. The chiair put the ijuestion on the said molinii to adjdurn. and a \ole heiiig taken, the same was declared carried. Ihe con\enli(iii ad|ournei| until Tliursdav morning, Julv L'.5th. 1889: at 10 A. M. SE\E\TKi:\TH DAY Thiii'sday Morning, July 25tli. 1S89. llie Com enlmu was called In nrdei^ hv the President at 10 A. .M. Th<" clerk called the roll. Mr. Craven of l^ewis & Clarki': Mr. Cauhy asked to be excused for the day. He is unavoidably detained. The President: The gentleman will he excused if ttiere be no objection. The chaplain offered prayi-r. The clerk read the journal of the previous day. The President: Under tlie head of (ieneral Orders, the convention may proceed to tlie consideration of the (ieneral Kile. What is the pleasure of the convention? -Mr. Hartman of said motion, and a vote bemt; taken, the same was declared earned. riie clerk read Section I of Pruiiosilioii .\o, 14, as follows: Proposition iNo. I'l. Arlicle on itiglils of Sufi rage and Uualifications to Hold Office. Section 1. All elections by I hi- people shall be by ballot. There being no amendments to Si-ction I, tlie clerk read section 2, as lollows: Section 2. Every male person ii\er the age of twenty-i>ne y(vars pos- sessing the following qualilicat lon.s, shall l)e entitled to vote 'at all the general elections; 1. He shall be a citizen of the L'niled States. 2. He shall have resided in the state one year inunediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote, and in the county, town or iirecinct'such time as may be prescribed by law. Mr. Bickloril of Missoula: I desire to oflVi- a substitute for Section -'. Mr. Hartnian of Oallatm: I desire lo offer the following amendment. The chairman: The gentleman from Mi.ssoula offers the following amendment which the clerk will read. Mr. Keek of Deer Lodge: 1 would like to ask i! there is not a resolu- tion on file to be considered with this section, olfered bv tlic gentleman Iroin Park. The Chairman: \\ hat is the numbec of tln' resulnlion? Mr. Joy of Park: Resolution .No. IJ. Mr. Eaton of Park: Air. tUiairman, 1 mo\e that Proposition .No. li be considered, and that subsequent to such consideration, we take up any other proposition on file pertainng to this subject. There being no second to the motion of the gentleman fidiii Park v^.ir. Eaton , the clerk read the substitute offered by .Mr. Hickford nf .Mi-soula. as lollows: ■"In all elections not otherwise provided for m this constitution, e\ei'v male citizen of the Lnited Stales, or those who have declared their inten- tion to become such, of the age of twenty-one years, who shall lia\e re- sided ill this State during the six months immediately preceding such eleoiion. shall be entitled to vote. f^ro\ided no idiot, or ii'isane person shall be onlitled lo the rights or privileges oi an elector. The rights aed privil- eges of ai' elector sliall be forfeited by a conviction for any crime wliicli is punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. The legislature shall ha\e )io-ver to confer upon women the n;;li(s and lu-iviteges of ele.-l.irs to \oie in any or all elections." .Mi. .Joy of Park: .Mr. Chairman. 1 would like to hear Kesolution .\'o. 12 read. The clerk read the amendmi'iit cdlered by .Mr. llarlmian (d (ialialm to said section, as lollows: .\fter the word "law" on line 5 of said section 2. insert: ".\nd lie shall be able to read and write the English language, l'r(i\ideil lliat nothing in this constitution contained shall be construed id de|iri\r any person Of the riglit to vote who has such i'i,i.dit under ex- isting laws (it llus I'erritoi'y at tlie tune nf tlie adoption id' tins i-onslilu- lion." .Mr. Hreeii of .Jefferson: I \i\n\r tiii> adoption id llie anieiidment. The motion was seconded. COKSTiiUTlOiNAL CU.WEiNTlON 1889 331 Mr. HicJvRiril oT Alissdula: .Mr. Cliairiiian, I move the adoption ol the siihstitute tor flection 2 ottered by myselt. riie motion was .seconded. .Mr. .Marnon td .\li,ssoula sent up an amendment. .Mr. \\ ai-reii oT Silvei- Bow: I move tlie adoption of the amendment as presented hy .Mr. Haitmian of Gallatin. The motion was a^-am seconded. The Chairman: It is nio\ed and seconded tlial the substitute offered by the geiitternan from .Missoula .Mr. Bicliford be adopted. .Mr. .Marnon of .Missouh\: If my substitute is m order, I would like to have It read. Tile Chairman: Thi' gentlemian's substitute is not in order. .Mr. Hartman of (wUlalin: I only wish to say a few words in support of tlie amendment offered by myself. .Now, .Mr. Chairman, it occurs to me that one of the most important questions which we have to determine — Interrupted .Mr. Rickards of Silver tJow: I rise to a point of order. There is a res- olution, as 1 understand, that has been offered and is on the General File with this proposition. .\ member of this convention has risen to his feet m his place and called for the reading of that resolution. The Chairman; The point of order is well taken. The resolution will be read. The Clerk read the resolution of the f.'entleman from l^ark .Mr. .Joy , being Resolution No. 12, as follows: RESULLTIO.N UN SUFFR.\GE. "Every male citizen of the Inited States above tlie (age of twenty-one years, who can read and write the English language and who has never been convicted of treason or felony, and who shall have resided in this State one year and m the city, county or district where he may offer to vote for six months next prior to any election, and no other person, shall have the right to vote in this State. Provided, That nothing herein shall disfranchise any person who was a qualified voter at the time cd' the adop- tion of this constitution." .Mr. Hartman of (iallatin: There does not seem to be any material dif- ference, -Mr. Chairman, between the resolution offered by the gentleman from Park i .Mr. Joy , and the amendment offered by myself. The only dif- ference IS. that 1 attempted to get the words in more concise form: that is all; and so far as the spirit and intention of that resolution is concerned, 1 am in accord with it. and there is controversy between us. But it does seein to me that this question is one id' the most important ones we have to deal with, and one tfiat we should deal with more conservatively than almost any other that comes before us. The life and health of man is ab- solutely dependent upon the character of the blood that courses through his veins. That is a truism. ,V nations prosperity, a State's welfare, as surely depends upon the cliaracter of its citizens. .Now, in our State and -National governments the influence of the citizens is so much greater than it is in a despotism that the importance of this question becomes extra ordinarily prominent. Our opinions are not abstract ideas: they are forces. ■J hey tiecome potent factors n determining governmental policies. And therefore it behooves us to see to it that those persons who take a part and help shape the policy of the government are competent to act intelligibly; and therefore I have inserted in this amendment the clause, "And who shall be able to read and write the English language," .\s has been well said b> some member upon this floor, a vote is but the expression of an opinion. The character of the opinion and the effect that will be given tfi it through the medium of that vote depends upon two qualities: first, the inherent qualities of mind and heart in (be individual voter; and, sec- ond. Ihi^ cultivation and direction id' those qualities through the instru- mentality of education. .Now. the first we cannot control in the individual himself, but wr- can declare that unless the individual possess those ipiati- ties he shall not exercise this right. 'I'he application and cultivation (d' llie second may be encfiuraged by us through wholesome legislation, fhe amendment operates as such an encouragement. .Now. then, furthermore. I desire to say that for the purposes of our State government, of our -National government, I he primary oti.jects of education are to make good citizens. I believe this problem should be solved with a view to extending the greatest liberty to the individual citizen and voter consistent witli (he welfare of the state, but that that proviso should be one of the most 'SJ-^ )'Her- \ailes me to make a protest against the arguments of tlie gentleman. I llnnk, notwithstanding the eloquence of that address that it lacks force. I fail to see one sofitary argument m il. .Now, the very peojite he claims llial are dangerous to our civilization, I think you will all agree with me. are pretty well educated people, and I Fail lo know of any part of out- country where harm has ever come to llie country by illiterate persons lia\ing the right of suffrage. .Now, i belie\e m the most unlimited liberty that IS compatible with the welfare of oui' country, and I really ttiink, sir, thai the number of common schools in our country today is such that we need never be very apin'ebensive of illiteracy being so great in this country as to overcome ttie influences of education. I am opposed to the substitute on that ground. I am opposed to it because it is not in the spirit of the times. .Now, 1 really think that Ihe inihcation of tlie times is for more liberty in behalf of the people rather than a restriction of the present liberty which they enjoy. If I thought that tliei-e was any iJaiiger lo befall .Montana or that .Montana's welfare would be iii.iui'ed m any way by the adoption oi the section as introduced by Ihe i-iunmitlee. 1 should certaiiilN- withdraw iny vote; but, notwithstanding the eloquence of the gentleman. 1 fail to feel any apprehension wliatev(>r on that pmiil. I llnnk it would be decidedly wrong at this day for us to adopt I hat amendment. The section as introduced by the committee meets with my approbation. As I said, the substitute id the gentleman is not in the spirit of tlie times. We are not afraid of the illilerale voters of this country dominating o\er the intelligent vole. 1 also think, sir. that il may possibly work a hardship in some cases. We have in various parts of this counli'N. and possibly in Montana, men wlio iiave.inuch interest in the welfare ol ttie state who are unable to write tlieir own names. 'I'liey an' holders of considerable pro|ierly, and are ,just as much interested perhaps as a i)erson who can write his name. And it we pass Ihis substilute we would depriM' such persons of the. right of suffrage. I cannot under- stand the consistency (d that. .Now. I do tliink this, that we go a great deal more on tlie innate iiualilles of our associati>s and fellow men than w<' ilii upon Iheir literai-y i|ualilies or characleristii's. II is not according CO.NSTITL ilO.NAL CO.WKiM'lO.N 18«9 333 til tile ilcgrco ot (Hlucatioii they possess that we judge men. 1 have, at least, never sii judged my fellow men, my associates in liusiiiess, or the aeiiuamlaiici's I have met in the various paths of life: and 1 think so it is with tins suffrage question, b^ome of the worst criniinal classes of thi.s country, some of llie most hardened enemies our country possess are not the illiterate, but on the oilier hand these exceedingly sliarp fellows vVhci are well up in political trickery, and m all kinds of knavery, ami all these other things that are acquired hy education, and which only educated people can acquire. Now, sir, 1 am positively opposed to this amendment. -Mr. Joy, of Park: It seems to me that the idea which the gentleman presents in favor of his own resolution hears more upon mine than upon ins tiwn. .Now. in the fii-st place, upon the question of conciseness I want lo call the attention of this conmiittee to the fact that my resolution, as It stands, covers more ground and uses less words than that introduced liy the gentleman from (iallatin .\lr. Harlnian . I say it covers more ground, and the very ground he speaks of. The very dangers he refers to of these foreign societies, dangerous people from abroad and the criminal and other dangerous classes, is not provided for in his resolution. .Now, 1 have said in my resolution "every male person over the age of twenty- one years who has never been convicted of treason or felony," and that has hot been touched upon in any of the other resolutions. I think that is a very proper provision. That would shut out the very class of people that the geiitlenjan from Gallatin refers to, and 1 trust that this resolu- tion as offered by myself will prevail. I do not suppose that there is a member upon this floor who is more willing and even anxious that all citizens and voters of the State of .Montana will be able to go to the ballot box and cast an intelligent vote, and that is all this resolution seeks to enforce. It stimulates more intelligence in our politics: it is more elevating in its tendency and effect; it disfranchises no person who is now a voter in this territory or who may be at the time of the adoption of this constitution. 1 know it may be urged by some upon this floor that there are men, able gentlemen, smart business men. who are unable to read and write. That I know to be true. I have had business relations with them, and I know it is true. But they are not disfranchised by the resolution. They will continue to be voters as long as they stay in .Montana. .Now. I say that those coming from abroad will have ample time before they are allowed to vote under any circumstances ^they will have ample time after they come here to become useful citizens: tliey will have ample time to learn to read and write their ballot. It has been suggested by the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. Courtney that these dangerous people, anarcliists. nihilists and socialists Ac. are educated people. .Now, that is true as to the leaders. Those who are the leaders of those societies are educated, beyond question, but the most of them are ignorant people, who are swayed by a handful of leaders that are educated and understand our institutions. I hope. Mr. Chairman, that this proposition will prevail. This provision has been introduced into the constitution of other states, particularly in the State of Missouri, recently. and it is an advance step. 1 am glad to say. in that state. I am glad to say It has been introduced in both of the new states of Dakota. 1 notice oni> of the tests was that the voter should be able to read the declaration of independence. That goes beyond what we expect here, and the only chal- lenge we exact as a test will be that when a man goes to the ballot box he will be obliged to stand up there and read his ballot, if he is chal- lenged on that ground: and further, he is obliged to lake a pencil and write that ballot, if he is challenged on that ground. I am in favor of stimulating a man to cast the most intelligent vote. The voters are the masters, and the officers are simply their servants, and I say the voters shoulil be as intelligent as their servants. .Now. in view of the fact that .Mountaineers have in all ages and times been noted for their courag-; and patriotism. 1 see no otijeclion to adding intelligence lo these virtues, ;.iid I trust this resolution will prevail. .Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: I must say that I differ .somewhat from the gentleman from (iallatin 'Mr. Hartnwn in his ideas, and that further 1 think that the address he delivered to this convention was more fluent than practical. I claim that to require that qualification of a person tliat it is not in accordance with the requirements of a man to become a citizen of the United States. I claim that as long as you admit a person lo be a citizen, that person has a right to have some say in the making 334 PR0CEED1.NG8 AM) DKBATKS ol the laws dl iho ('(lUiitry. I- nrtln'i-, 1 claim thai Ihcic aro ponple in AJoiitana today that caiimit rrad and write, llial east as honest a ballot, as intellifient a Liallot, as those who ran read and write. My e.\|ii'rieuee in tliat respeet was this, that I liave seen men lliat wei'c smart and in- telligent that east tlieir ballots lor the men that paid thi-m: and on the other hand 1 have seen im^n that could not read and writi', that a man could not. approach lor the purpose ol buying them. iSow, if you go and give the right ot suffrage to men who live here now who cannot read and write, It is wrong to deny it to others wlio come in afterwards. It is not in accordance with the liberties that are accorded to American citizens. The gentleman Irom tiallatin goes on to call in question the Clan ne Gael and other secret societies, which 1 know nothing about, but from what 1 can read of them, I claim there are intelligent people among those men. and some of the most respected citizens (if the country are members of the Clan ne Gael t^ociety toda\, according to the reports of the newspapers. Tliis constitution has nothing to do with those societies. By di'privmg I he people who can neither read nor write the Knglish language of the right of suffrage you do an act that lias no bearing whatever upon those socie- ties, and that argument is entirely irrelevant to the proposition and it is only placed here before the convention for I he purpose of having some influence in helping the propositHui through. I certainly o|ipose the proposition, and think it is not right to deprive a man of his vot? .'Uirply because he cannot read and write the Knglish language. The genllcinan from I'ark County goes on to say, "W!e only require of hiin to read the ballot: thai we don't go as far as to ask him to read the declaralion of independence." 1 claim that a man who can read and write certainly can read the declaration of independence, ['certainly do not favor the amend- ment. 1 do not think it is just or right. As long as you admit a man who cannot read and wTite to the liberties of citizenship, you should not take away from him one of the first rights of his I'ltizensliip. There are .some that do not cast an intelligent ballot while there are others tliat d is challenged, and why? Because when the ticket is handed to him he cannot write his owii name. What would you say to having a man of that kind rejected who had lost his right arm m the service of his country, and who had lost his left arm, and never liad acquired the habit of writing with his toes? 'Laughter Would you go in and disfranchise that man because he had been out and imperilled his life on the battlefield of his country and sus- taini'd an irreparable injury? "He must not only read and write" is the language of the resolution, and I have known scores of men, so far as my recollection dates back, some years, who not only fought upon the bloody fields of the first revolution under Washington, but in the war of 1812 and IH15 under Scott, the wars of Mexico under Scott and in the late rebel- lion, who could not fulfill the requirements here. And those men were doing patriotic service for their country when my young frienif from (iallatm county was "mewling and puking in his mother's arms." and before the gentleman from Silver Bow County had gotten rid of flie necessary nether garments which go with the discomforts of infancy. I say plainly that no power in this ronvention nor on earth can induce me to go and record a vote against those men. He says rascals come from the old country. Well, now, those rascals that come here cannot only write their own names, but they too frequently write the names of their neigh- bor. (Laughter It would need high-wrought, patriotic, down East Yankee culture to make an .\merican citizen such as this gentleman would delight to see. and that may come perhaps just about the break of the millennial dawn. Now, I say I am opposed to this whole thing. I think the report of tne committee goes quite far enough, and if the millions of pure men here Who are intellectually educated and morally educated cannot stand off a few whelps who come in here to prostitute our political institutions, we had better surrender and go back into barbarious life again. .Mr. Knowles. ot Silver Bow: T am opposed to this amendment. It confines the intelligence of the country to the men who shall he able to read and write in the English language. We who read and write the English language do not possess all of the intelligence that exists in this world of ours. We have intelligent Germans and intelligent P'renchmen and intelligent Scandinavians, as we are accustomed to call them, who can read and -^Tite well in their native languages, and who are intelligent people. We have today German newspapers published throughout the L'n'ited States, which discuss public matters as intelligently as do our newspapers published in the English language. We have papers published in the Scandinavian language which discuss public matters well, and there are often papers published in the Uniteri States published in the French language, and these discuss public matters. Now, you wish to shut out all men who have not learned the English language as though all there was about liberty was in the English language. I agree with two of the gentlemen from my own county, who have said that the danger to American institutions today is not from men who cannot read and write. The danger to the institutions id' today is that men do not feel sufficiently the responsibilities that rest upon them as American citizens. When there are found six hundred or seven hundred voters that can be purchased for the paltry sum of three dollars apiece, every one of whom 336 PROCEEOLNCiS AM) DKBATKS can read and wi'iti' thn Knglisli language. 1 say tticre lies tlio danger'. Our revolutionary siros wen' not an educated people, but they were lovers ol liberty, and wherever you I'lnd a man imbued with liberty, with the principles Of liberty, lie is a patriot in this land ot ours, 1 care not whether he can read and write or not. Heterence has been made here to the anarchists. What has been said about them is true; that as a rule they are educated and well educated people: but they are a people thai have grown up under the tyrants of Europe until they have come to protest against all governments. 'I'hey believe that all government is a species of tyranny. They are what might be called semi-insane upon that ques- tion. But wliere do we find in this land of ours ignorant men banding themselves together. Nowhere, it is these men of intelligence that have visionary notions in regard to government. We have, by an ainendinenl to the constitution of tlie United States, enfranchised and made voters the largest number of ignorant people that ever existed in any country. The government has not gone to pieces from that action on the part of the national government. 1 know that directly the national government did not make these people voters, but the effect of that am(>ndinent to the Constitution was to make them voters. And so 1 am opposed to this qualification here, which says that they shall read and write the English language. Men come to the United States who are advanced in years. There are a great many communities in the United States where the lan- guage of the country from which tlie immigrants come is still spoken. It is the language of that part of the country. Vou will find throughout Iowa, Illinois and Ohio and in the (ierman selltements g'enerally that they still speak nothing but the Oerman language: and yet a friend of mine who fought on the side of the confederacy said it seemed to him that he saw more Germans upon the battlefields of the south than men of any other nationality. These men when it came to the question as to wliether this government should be preserved went out in thousands, and I am opposed to any restriction of the kind that would narrow tlieir rights or privileges as proposed in this bill. Mr. J. H. i'oole, Deer Lodge: The first question that presents itself to my mind in connection with this is, what is the cause, or wiiat is the demand, or what is the present condition of circumstances that di'inands anything of this kind. Does the histoi'y of Montana, does our political history demand that we should enact such a clause as this in our constitu- tion"/ Have the people of Montana, our citizens who have honored u.s by sending us here, have they been consulted? Are they a class of people that we desire to dispense with? I take it not, sir. I take it. sir, looking at the matter from a common sense point of view, in the light of our past experience, and our history, that there is no demand for anytliing of this kind. We have on the floor (d' this house two gentlemen who, since Mon- tana had a history almost, have represented us in the highest office which it was in our power to bestow, and 1 take it that in this mountain country west of the Mississippi Hiver, or east, if you will, throughout the terri- tories, in any of its confines, there never have been mien more ably and intelligently and nobly and more satisfactorily to the people of the terri- tory represented their constituents, than these men did. And looking around in our county offices, upon every office in the gift of thi> iieople, and every office that might be in the gift of the people prospectively in our state, 1 ask, does the condition of affairs here demand anything of this kind? It sounds very well in theory, hut does our practical experi- ence demand tins step? If we take history for it, does our history bear us out in the assertion that for the last one hundred years the tendeney has been to extend the franchise instead of curtailing or limiting it? Doj^s not the history of the world show that men have crept gradually onward in the progress of the franchise? There was a time, as was demonstrated here the other evening, when the franchise was limited to but the \ery few, and after a hard struggle it was extended so that men who had prop- erty qualifications were entitled to the privilege of electors, and after years the fight went on until that lin\ilation was removed and the citizen irrespective of property qualifications was plac(>d in possession (d' tlie ballot, anfl today we have the most lilieral laws in relation to that matter or any nation on the face of tlie earth. I ask the gentlemen of tliis oon- vention now. does not our history in tlie past eighti'en years bear us out 111 the assertion that we are on the right track? 1 think we ai-e all proud of Montana. My knowlerlge of the history of Montana and of the |)eo])li' who lia\e administered the ntrices is a mattei'. 1 ttiink, of which 1 in com CO-NSiTlL ilO.NAL CO.W t.M lO.N IS>S>J 'Xi? iniiii Willi every oilier cili/.en of Montana may justly leel proud. We stioulil all eonyiatulate ourselves on tlie fact ttiat all our olfices tioni ttie Juslici's ol the Peace auil t;onslal)les up to the hii-'hest ntfiee have heen administered lionestly and cuuseuMiliously and have been filled by men who were a credit to the commonwealth. \\ here you permit people to come to the country here, and then malie them leel m their hearts that they are not. of us. that have interests that are idi'iitical with ours, and yet thai may have no voice in the enactment of laws or in the machinery ol groveininent. I say that is working' a hardship. 1 believe this resolu- tion is not in accordance with the times. I believe that the experience of tlie past does not bear us out in introducing anything of this kind into our constitution. 1 say our officers lier(>tofore have been men of whom we might well be proud, irrespective of political color or parly feeling, and I say the course we are pursuing heri' is the proper one. I hope this amendment will not prevail. Mr. .\laginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Uf course, it would be a grand thing if all men could be wise and virtuous and good: it would be a grand thing if all men could be educated: but 1 agree with the gentleman from \ellowstone in thinking that when that ideal republic exists that was so beautifully pictured by the gentleman from !>iKer Bow .Mr. Sargent , where all who participate in the franchise will possess these qualifications, It will exist upon those Klysian fields, upon the rivers of time where the powers of the universe will sit at the ballot box and only angels will canvass for the suffrage of theii' constituents. Applause As has been well said, this republic was founded by men who were illiterate, but who were lovers of freedom. As has been said the descendants of those people in many states of this union still do not read or write the English lan- guage. As has been said those descendants were as brave as any people in defending the rights and the honor of the country. And. Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen, u is not the ignorant people who come from abroad who threaten our institutions. The gentleman from Park was mistaken when he said that only the leaders oi the anarchists are educated: that their followers are ignorant people. Those people come from lands where education is compulsory, and I undertake to say, and I say it without any derogation to this convention, that m the matter of reading and writing, in the study of the philosophy of government, in acciuaintance wilh those theories upon which philosophers have advocated the establishment of governments, in the number of languages which they can read and write, not only the English, but many others, that this convention could not compare with an ordinary club of anarchists. -No, .Mr. Chairman, it is not that that makes good citizens. I know. sir. that there have been some ignorant people come from abroad: there have been many people who could not read or write the English language: but we must remember that It is that immigration that has made this country great; it is that immigration that is making this country great today. Compare the States that are inviting immigration from the old world: compare Wisconsin with .Maine: compare Iowa with .North Carolina: compare any new state whose life blood is continually reinfused by the immigration of people from the old world with any state that has no immigration, and see how the comparison stands: in prosperity, in education, in advancement, in wealth and in everything that goes to make great communities. Sir. al- though these people, these anarchists did violate the peace at Chicago, who were the men that stood against them, and put them down? Did you ever read the names ot those policemen that were killed".' Did you ever read the list of that police force that stood up and put down that an- archistic demonstration? i'hey were nearly all foreigners: they were nearly all adopted citizens: and I undertake to say that many of those who stood up that day to defend the government and the country did not possess the qualifications of education that the anarchists did. Why. if there was any place in the world where a proposition of this kind would be unwise, it would be here. The census shows that we have the smallest percentage of illiteracy of any state or territory in the union: and I call the gentlemen here to look around among their acquaintances, and f direct their attention to one thing. The men who have made the greatest successes in this territory by their intelligence, by their will, by their character, and their force, have been inen whose early opportunities were such as would scarcely bring them within the limits of this provision. [ do not want to call any names, but I could call them. I know also that some of the men who have planned the greatest enterprises, built the 338 I'HOCKEDI.NdS AM) DEBATES greatest works, might perliaps bo ruled out on a purely eiluealiinial test if it was cari-ied loo far. .Neilfier the greatest soldiers nor the greatest leaders or captains of industry are always tlie most seliolarly men. Mr. President, there is another matter. In the resolution of Ihi' gentli'iiian fi-om Park (Mr. Joy), he would shut out everyliody thai was eonvicled of li-easoii lu- felony m any other eountry. Hi- ouglil to |je eareful befori' he doi's Ihal. There are countries where Invisnn and felony do not mean what I reason and felony do in tins countr>. That would have sliul oul l)r l\all>, that would have shut out Ivosciusko, that would have sliut out iviissuth, and Carl Scluirtz, one of the most intelligent men of Itiis country, and l-'rank Sigel, who made such a grand ri'pulation ni our wars — all thes.- would have been deprived ot the franchise if our citizens liad made treason and felony m other countries a bar against being received into citizenship of America. (Applaiisej Gentlemen, the peopli- of Monlana are on the right course. They have governed this territory well with the qualifica- tions of suffrage that they now have, and I trust that not on account of any beautiful theories or argumi^nts will we advance a step in the wrong direction and narrow tlir I'lghts, and the liberties anil the privileges of our people. (Applausei .Mr. Breeii of .Jefferson: I am in favor of this clause and I hope it will pass: and more Ihan that, if I only knew there would be but one vote reg- istered in favoi' of it. that vole would be mine. I know the condition of the men of this territory and the voters of this territory. I apiirehend, as well as the average man that has been around amongst them. There are some men that do not know what they are voting or who they are voting for; they have not enough intelligence if they liid know, to under- stand the dilterence between principles or lielween men, and these me:i will go on election day and cast a ballot that is the equal of yours. It is not a pleasant thing to contemplate. .Now it is claimed that the followers of the anarchists are ignorant. T'hat is true: it must necessarily be true, lor if they were educated, if they were able to see the folly of their ways, they would not be following the wild lead of some crazy idiot from across the ocean: and if these men were able to read and write they would not be ready to lu'lieve every w«rd Ihal is told them during the excitement of a compaign: they would look for the records of the men. and it would not be the best talker, bul the man with the best principle, n'gardless of his political convictions, that would receive their ballot. Mr. Chairman, and gentleman, we have here, or we will have here in Monlana. thanks to the efforts of the members of last winter's legislature, a ballot system in operation this fall which is called the Australian secret ballot system. and If it was not for this coming election and for fear that the judgment of the people would rise up in defense of Mr. Kennedy, I am willing to say that that bill would have been killed last wniter. I have seen fore- man around among their men handing them a ballot and furnishing teams to take them to the polling place and saying how they should vote that ballot. 1 have seen that done in the territory, although I ha\e only been five years in the territory: and if we have men that havi> little or n.i intelligence, and that will vote as their employers say. they can give tln'in a list of names and say to the voters "lake this and cross these names, or if you don't we have no use for you here" — I say that if thesi- mi-n have little or no intelligence they will be subject to the mercy of tlieir employers and will not vote according to their own convictions, and it will be just the same as it is now, and tire pi'Otection of thi; Australian Ballot System will be a farce. I say, gentlemen, give us an intelligent vote, or grive us none at all. I know that we have papers edited and published in the German, in the Swedish and in different languages, but at the same time these men that are iiublishing these papers have the brains to print them in the English language, and I believe in buildintr up an American and not a (ierman or a Sweedish, or an Irish, or a Scan- dinavian republic. Take the I'niled States. Our fathers, they claim, were uneducated hut at Ihe same time when they drew up the declara- tion of independence and the constitution of Ihe linited Stales, it was not the ignorant men in the thirteen colonies that sent representatives to draw up tliat declaration or the constilution of lli(> I'nited States; they were intelligent [leopte, and ttiey sent the very best talent they had. and iL was a credit to tlieir juitgment that they did send such talmit as was .sent there. If these men will reside in our territory five years, oi' even one year, before they become voters, and if tliey are too lazy to learn CO.\STlTL IIO.NAI. OO.NVKNTION 1889 :«'.) to ri'ail till' Kn^.'-lisli lauyunyc or wnli' iii lliaf lauyuayi'. I -;ay tlioy ai'i' not 111 to say wlio sliall jiovm iin' or you, nr tliat their vote or tiis' vote shall be tho equal of mine for the purpose of passing' laws for my govern- ment, or any oltier man that is iiiti'rested in the welfare of the country. For that reason I say give us lliat substitute, so that we sliall have ain intelligent qualification for \oters and do away with this condition of af- fairs. As It is now, the average voter says "".Mr. soinbodyelse" or ".\Ir so-and-so, told eni Ihis was a good man. and 1 am going to vote for him, and at the sami' time they do not know, and never would know his record. 1 admit that .Montana has been well ser\ ed in the interest of Montana since she lias been a territory, but at the saiiiie time we do not know but what some of the men thai were left at home would have served the territory of .\lonlaiia just as well as those that wei'e elected. The ignor- ant voter IS liable to vote for a bad man as well as a good man just the same. .Now 1 say give us an intelligent qualification and let us do away with some of the evils of our present system of elections. Mr. Middleton of Custer: For Gods sake, where are we drill lug. (Laughter 11 seems to me that this proposition in the resolution offered by the gentleman from Gallatin is the same thing, or practically the same tiling, as the one offered by the gentleman from Park. It seems to me this proposition considered in a convenlion organized here for the pur- pose of framing a constitution 'for a free people one of the most prepos- terous propositions 1 ever heard of. My little knowledge of the history of these United Estates from its foundation down to the present time, is that we have what is known as a republican form of government, a government for the people and by the people. .Now, to say. sir. that be- cause a man cannot write and read the English language he does not belong to that class of the people that the constitution of the L iiiled states mentions, seems to me absurd. It has been well said here that a ballot, a vote, is simply an expression of opinion. Can it be possible that because a man cannot read and write the Knglish language that he cannot express an honest, intelligent moral opinion? 1 say that that ex- pression of opinion is based presumably upon, or should be based upon his moral conscience, regardless of what his qualifications are as to edu- cation or property. 1 presume the next provision will be to require a man to be a millmnaire, and we will have a government in .Montana for the aristocracy and not for the people. Why; there has been no argument advanced by the gentleman from Gallatin Mr. Harlman or the gentle- man from Park [Mr. Joyi that can. it seems to me, indicate to the mind of any intelligent man that there are any reasons for this proposition. The gentleman who offers this resolution is an educated man. a man learned in the law. The other gentleman from Park occupies the same position. They are men from whom we would expect an intelligent expres- sion on any propiVsition or principle, but I candidly believe that both of those gentlemen at this moment are acting under temporary aberration Laughter and 1 don't know but it would be wise for this convention to appoint an inquisition de lunatico inquirendo to see whehter or not it is safe for those men to be at large. (Laughter, According to my observa- tions, some of the most intelligent people, some of the best friends I ha\ e had. some of the best business men. some of the most successful business men, were men who could not read or write the English language. Hero we tiave a \asl territory of millions of acres of arable land, sufficient to furnish farms for hundreds of thousands of people. We have mountains, and mountains of ore yet untouched and unworked. We are forming pre- sumably a new stale, and in order that it may become what we want it to Oe, we should certainly open the gates to every intelligent man, win'ihor he be a (iernian. an Irishman, a Swede, or no matter where he comes froi'1. \\hy, as has been well said here, many of the most intelligent and Ihoioughly educated men we have in this country, some of them right here in .Montana, come to this country after they have passed, perhaps, middle age, ilioroughly educated in their own language, and they never do learn to read or write the English language. They have to work perhaps for a living, and they have not time nor the inclination to do that sort of thing. As has been well said also, those men read ftie papers: they know what is going on in tins territory, in its political and iii all its affairs, altliough they may not derive that knowledge from a perusal of matter printed in the English language. They know the history of matters and things just as well as the man who can read the primer or write his own name in y40 i'HUCEKDI.NCS AMt DKHAIKS lite Kuglisli laiiyiiayi'. II is a .siir|irisi' tn iiir lli.il iiicn n( such iiili'iii^ciicc slu>ul(_l atlcinpl III spriiiK such a prDpusilinii as lliis upini lliis cuinfiilinii. I caniiul bciicM- that tlic iiitclliyciu'e of si'vcnly-livo iiicn will cvcf pciinil any such thiiit; to f^i' mln the cimstitutioii ul llie t>talc' uT .Molilalia. Wliy. suhiiiil a conslilulKiii lo llic pr(i|iii> nl llus territory witli Ihal provision ill it. and 1 will tatie (Im> sliniip and borrow money lo ;^et. a liMiii:;, wliile 1 am doiiiy It. ami Iry my liesi to |]i-e\enl ils ever Ijeiiig adojited liy the people id' tile Slate of iMonlaiia. II would he an outrageous tiling, and" 1 do not Itelieve thai wlieii it came to go befori' the people tliat any intelligent, lionest, upnglil man that believed iii a republican lonn of go\ eriiment, Ihal, believed iii a government by tlie people, for I lie people and of the people, would ever .say that he would east a vote to adopt that const i- lutioii. 11 IS a fanatical idea; it is all nonsense. \\ by mention was made here of sociali.sts and anarchists and the Clan ne Ciaels and all Ihal sort of thing. Study up thi' history of llie Hayinarket not in Chicago, and you will find the most educaled and intelligent men, not only at the head of that affair, but ttie entire body of them connected witli it. Would lliey be octraeised under this piovisioiiV .\o, they can vote; liut a i)ooi' lionest man, whom eircumfstances and eondilioiis did not permit to be Ijorii in tills world where he luid an opiiorlunity of getting an education, and who has lived perhaps either in this country or some other until he is thirty or forty years of age, and comes here with a family with sufficient means le establish some little business, or perhaps open up a farm out here on the prairies — he attends to his business, he reads tlm papers in his own language, but be is prohibited from casting the expression of his honest, intelligent opinion upon public men and luiblic affairs; and yet you say that the aiiar(diistic, socialistic rascal, educated in the ways and the tricks of modern times and in the English language, as well, can go and east his vote at the polls, and the othei' man shall be forever ostracised in the state of Montana. It is an outrageous thing to conli'inplate. It is anything but republican in idea, and I cannot biMieve that tlie intelligence of this body will ever permil such a contemptible proposition to lie em- JJodied in the constitution of the State of Montana. Mr. Joy, of Park; The gentleman from Custer (Mr. .Middleton who has last spoken, has made one good [loint, and that is ttiat it would be a good idea to aiipomt a commission of lunacy to examine the heads of this convention, including particularly Ihe head of the gentleman from Cus- ter. Laughter and applause. .Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow; 'lliree-lniuihs ol the \irtui> and hat! of the intelligenee of this country are excluded altogetlier from the ballot. and it excites no comment and no protest on the part of the gentleman, fput he works himself into a sort of rage over this proposition. I am not profoundly impressed with the sincerity of the convictii.ms of the gentle- man who lias jwsl spoken, and although he may suggest that those who favor tins subslilule are proper subjects for a commission de lunatico in- guirendo, 1 woulil say on their part that they have not placed Ihemselves in the ridiculous position which he has done in saymg thai tliosi' who favor tills pro|josilioii making a limited educational qualificalioii iieces sary, which is wiltiin the reaidi of all. every person in the Lniti-d States - that they are liable to follow it up with a millionaire qualification, which IS only within the reach id' few at best. I say that a proposition of that kind IS an insult to the intelligence of this convention, and is an imiieach- iiienl of the common sense of the man who utters it. (Applause This provision is in the interest of education, and every man here favors educa tion; and if a man finds it is necessary that he shall learn to read and write before he can exercise the franidiise. it will be an iiidiiceinenl for him to do so. II really disfranchises no man. II is in Ihe interest id' good govermiient. ami 1 hope it will pass. .Mr. Kiiowles of Silxcr How; 1 wish to say for a I'neinl ,\( nuiie heir who hajiiiens to be raised m Ciermany — Interrupted. Mr. Kobinson of Dpqv Lodge: I b(die\c I will I'all I'm- llic rule re quiring thai no man shall speak twice on the same aineiidiiiiMil unlil all the other members (d the convention who wish lo shall spi'ak. Mr. Knowles. ot Silver How; If ytm try that on me you ni'\er s twice on a question again. Vou have violated that rule iiioii' than ollii'r man in the conxenlion. leaii any CO.NSI I 11 ild.NAl. CU.WE.MKt.N ISS'.t 3il Mr. Hobiiison. ol DfT Lmlgf: 1 call lor llif nili' on tlu' ytMilli'iiiaii. L mler the rule of lln' lioiisi> no man can .-iijcak Iwjcc until all tlii' otlu-r incnibers have expi-essetl then- views if tfiey so desire. .Mr. .\laginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Cliairniaii. 1 will ask lor the reailing of tbat rule. I do not know where it is louiiiJ. Tlie Chairman; It does apply to the committees of the whole. .Mr. Knowles. of Silver How: 1 only wish to say this: my friend liere from IJeer Lodge .Mr. Ivohrs estimates that there are five thousanil Ger- man newspaiiers puhlislied in the Ljuted States: that the German pop- ulation of the country read them because they can more intelligently un- derstand .\merican aitaiis puhlislieii m their nati\e language llian th.-y caii in the English. .\ grcal many of ttiese people cannot read and write in the English language, wlio are considered classical scholars iii the Oierinan language. .Now. this would disfrancluse all such people as tliat, and I :im i^pposed to It. .Mr. Brazleton of Jefferson: 1 would just like to ask these gentlemen who have so ably defendi'd tins clause if they lived in Florida instead of in .Montana would "they ad\ocate the same measure. -Mr. hlartman of Gallatin: \es. 1 would. I think it is a good thing anywhere. 1 want you to distinctly understand that there Is no party question in it. 11 seems to me that if a man cannot rise on this floor and express an opinion upon matters without being chai'ged with party feel- ing, that It IS higli time we were placing a limit on this thing. 1 pretend to say no man has gone into this thing with more sincerity than 1 liave. and 1 have advocated it. and 1 believe it to be a good question. .Mr. Schmidt, of Silver Bow: I offer an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Park. The Chairman: The gentleman is not in order. We are disposing of an amendment to an amendment now. .Mr. tteek, of Deer Lodge: I would like to say that 1 have been a very good listener this morning on this question, and I have heard nothing that convinces me yet but that the resolution that has been offered by the gentleman from Park .Mr. Joy or the gentleman from Gallatin .Mr. Hart- man IS a good resolution. 1 hope it will pass. .Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 do not wish to engage in any ex- tc nded remarks, my sentiments having been so well expressed by many of the speakers who have preceded me. but I wish to say that language, whether written or spoken, is only a medium for the transmission of ideas. 1 do not care about the medium, but 1 do stand for the quality of the idea: 1 do stand for patriotism. I do stand for honor, for honesty and morality. I care not how the tongue may stammer. 1 care not about the language which those virtues speak. I am not here today to aid the gentlemen in the erection of any barriers making a distinction between citizens who come to this country after the adoption of the constitution and those who have previously resideo nere. Let any man come from any foreign country he may, provided he comes with his heart full of patriotism for American institutions, and if that man be a man of honesty and morality he has my right hand of fellowship, i Applause .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I desire to ask how many amendments there are pending now to this resolution. The Chairman: The gentleman from .Missoula offered an amendment. Tlie gentleman from (iallatin offered an amendment to the amendment. Mr. Clarke of Silver Bow: I would inquire of the Chair if the amend nient offered by the gentleman from Missoula was not in the form of a substitute, and that the only amendment besides that offered was by the gentleman from Park. I'he Chairman: The Chair is id' the opinion that the gentleman from Silver Bow is correct. .Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: 'J hen. as I understand it. there is but one amendment offered to the printed copy. According to the rules, then, it is mv opinion that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow" is in order, according to rule eighteen of Jefferson's .Manual, that whenever there is a motion made to strike out and insert, which is con- templated by the substitute offered by the gentleman from .Missoula, the question shall be considered as two questions for the purpose of amend- ment, and that portion which it is intended to strike out shall take prece- dence and the friends of that measure may offer amendments to it. and until thev are satisfied with it. or until it is rejected, as the case may be. 342 PHUCKEDLNGS AND DEBATES tii'foir the question upon striking out shall be t'onsidercd, so that I believe tliiit I hi' amcndmont otfcrod by the gontleman from Silver Bow being only (he .secoriil amendment to the printed eupy. as d. now stands, is ui order. .Mr. Katon of Park: 1 desire to call atti'nlii>n to rule foi'ty-one, wliieli provides that a substitute shall be deemed an amendmenl and li'eated in all respeels as such. Now, although the f-'enllenian from .Missoula offers his substitute under that name, it should, under our rules, be trcati'd as an amendiiu'nt, and the ami'iidment ot tlie gentleman from (iallatin should be treated as an amendment to the amendment. We now have two amend nienls before us, and that is all that can be admittefl under iiaiiiamentary law. .Mr. Joy. of Pai'k: 1 should like to ask the question whether the resolu- tion 1 jntrodueed here a number of days ago is now pending. The Chairman: The Chair understands that the resolution offered by the gentleman from Park is being considered as a part of Section .\o. 2 of (General File INo. 12. which is now under consideration. .Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: 1 would state that that is contrary to the ruling of this convention, tleretofore the report of the committee has been acted upon and treated and disposed of first. Then these propositions reported adversely have been taken up and acted upon. Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead: Mr. Chaii'man 1 move that the Committee rise and ask leave to sit again. Motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mi-. Courtney, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, if this question is de- batable 1 just wish to say this, that now^ since we have discussed this ques- tion, it is the proper time to lake a vote. The Chairman: The gentleman is out of order. Mr. Richards of Silver Bow: I offer an amendment, Mr. Chairman, that when we rise we ask for more time to consider the proposition now before us. There being no second to said motion the Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Beaverhead (Mr. Witter), and a division being called for, the vote stood thirty-five in the affirmative to thirty-three in the negative. The Chair announced that the motion was carried. IN CONVENTION President Clark in the Chair. The Convention was called to order. .Mr. Cooper of (iallatin: .Mr. President, the committee of Ihe whole has bad under consideration (ieneral Kile No. 12, and beg to report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The President: The Chairman of the committee of the whole reports that said committee has had under consideration General File No. 12, and have made progress, and desire leave to sit again. If there be no objection leave will be granted. Mr. Joy, of Park: 1 move that we do now take a recess until two o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on said motion of the geiilleman from Park (Mr. Joy), and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Convention took a recess until 2 P. M. Thursday July 25. 1S89. Atti'rnoou Session. The convention was called to order by the I'resideni a! ',' I'. M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: Upon taking a recess the convention was engaged in the consideration of General Orders. The Committee of the Whole asked leave to sit again. What is the pleasure of the convention. .Mr. Parberry. of Meagher: If there be no objection the rmiimitlee on irrigation would like to i-eport. The I'resideni: Is there any objectirm lo ri'Ceiving the report id' Ihe (•(iinmillee on irrignl ioil? CU.NSTITLiTlO.NAL CO.WEM'IO.N IHS'.t :ri;J Mr. .Iny, (i| I'ark: I iiiuM' you sir tliat Itiis convention rusolve itsell mid a (^oiiiiiiiltcc of till' wluili' ami nmliuuc' llic consulcratioii of iiroposi- lion iNo. li. Mr. barberry, of .Mcaylior: IJo 1 uiiilcrsUuid llwi-v is objection made to receiving the reijorl of the coiiiinittee on irciyation? The Piesulent: iNo, sir. Tlieie i.s a motion before the house. The motion was seconded. The tlliair put the i]ueslion on the million of the gentleman from Parti vMr. Joyi and the motion \va.s declared carried. The" President: The gentleman from Gallatin, .Mr. Cooper will resume llir chair. li\ CO.MMITIKK OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin in the chair. The Committee was called to order. The Chairman: The question before the committee is upon the amend- ment of the gentleman from (iallatm (Mr. liartman). Mr. Heek of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, according to rule Ao. 22 a reso- lution should be limited to one subject, ^ow tlie resolution offered by the gentleman from Gallatin I believe contains two subjects. First it pro- vides that a voter shall be a citizen of the United States, and also puts m a test or qualification of a voter as to whetlier he can read or write. 1 would ask that these be divided and acted upon separately. The Chairman: The Chair is of the opinion that the subject matter of tlie amendment is germane to the question under debate. Mr. Callaway of Madison: Mr. Ctiairman, llie discussion of the prop- osition offered by the gentleman from (iallatm (Mr. Hartmani has as- sumed somewhat of a large range, and 1 wish to say now that I have al- most been upon the fence tialf of the time. I am in fa%'or of the prop- tisition of the gentleman from Gallatin to erect a higher standard as a ilualUication for vtiters. but 1 do not think at this period of our progress in the history of iMontana that we are quite ready for it. 1 thmk tliat per haps his speech and the speech of the Honorable gentleman from Silver fiow as a matter of education was worthy of all this day's session of this constitutional convention. I would be in favor of a proposition of that kind provided, that it should not take effect immediately. The chief objeclion. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of this committee, thai 1 have to the adoption of this proposition at this time, is that we are a new country. We have not yet two hundred thousand people. We are desirous of having more laborers. Have our country settled u|.i. and there will come m the progress ot immigration here, 1 hope within five or ten years at least enough to make a million iiihabitanls. Tins proposition is that it shall lake effect when this constitution is adopted. It shall not affect any citizen a resident ol the state of Montana at that tune. Hut, gentlemen ot the committi'e. il Will affect every one else who will come thi'icafter. who cannot read and write in the English language. .Now, you know as well as I, that thei'e are a great many \evy good people, worthy citizens and patriots, who are likely to come to this country. Take tlie instance that the gentleman from Custer illustrated, and under the technical provisions of the amiMid- ment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin these men will be disfran- chised. Mr. Chairman 1 had a little over four years experience in a con- ti'Oversy that we had here within the memory of most of the members of this convention. Uf the company that I took into service in that contro- versy there were eleven men who could not write their own names, but if I remember distinctly the services of those men, they .were as brave and true and as patriotic as any one. 1 do not believe that the mere mailer of being able to read the constitution of the United States in Eng- lish, or write a name, should be a distinctive qualification for citizenship, and 1 say in connection witli this statement, that I would like to see the standard eri'cteit higher than it is now. But do that, gentlemen, with youi- common schools, and do that in the interest of the nation in a way not to say that we propose now at this time to say, that those who have not had the advantage of education heretofore shall in this young and pro gressive country be subjected to such a test. In reading history, Mr. Chairman, 1 think the most of these gentlemen arr familiar with the lad that when the barons of England went to Iving John and with sword in hand (iemaniled of him Maiiiia ilharta. the liberties of England. Iln' basis upon 3i4 I'HOCJlEUI.NUS AM) DKHATKS wliicli llic dt'cliifaliini of iiulepMulcncc was miidc. ami rdllowiii^; that lln' couslilutioii of llic Liiitcd Stales of ouc fathers a little over oiir humlri'd years ago — If you f;eidleme[i wdl j;o and exaiiiiiie that old .Magna l^harla you wUl find that not one-half of thi' petitioners could sign their nanii-s, hut were eompelled to sign them witti n. cross. .\nd going haclv a little over history again, take the revolutionary war. How many of our fathers — and 1 say Mr. t^rcsident, upon this occasion, lliat we are not indebted to Ciod .■\lmighty so much for the lilessings of liberty, as to the men who worked and fought for the liberties qf tliis country — if we liad depended upon the great Father, in whom I believe, for the blessings (d' lilicrty, and had not our ancestors and forefathers of the revolutionary war taken their swords and muskets m liand, we would today be sitting under British rule. ."Vs an instance o{ history, at the battle of the Cowpeiis, (Colonel VVasliington, who was a cousin (d' the father (d' our country met Colonel Tarlton and signally defeated him: and in I'arlton's retreat from the Cow- pens. \Vashingtf)n fought with his sword in tus hand struck him a blow in the shoulder that left a scar there tliat he carried to Ins grave. .-V few days after Tarltons retreat and disaster he was dimng with a lady ni the state of South Carolina who was intensely loyal and true to the cause of. human freedom, but she was polite. She entertained Coloiipl 'iarlton at her table, and in speaking of the battle of the Cowpeiis, Tarlton was very much disgusted with his d(d'eat and he said to this lady, "why I understand tliat that fellow cannot even write his own name," "well", said the lady, "Colonel, at least he can make his mark" Laughter and applause). .Mr. ("-arpenter, of Lewis i^ Clarke: I have been very much interested m this discussion, but have only a word to say. Tbeorelically I am in fa vor of this amendment. 1 would like not only to have every voter jjos- sessed of the qualifications proposed in this amendment, but of many other qualifications and virtues. Hul iiraclically, I fear its operation it it slioukl become a part of the fundamental law. Reference has already been made to the exclusion of many persons who are men of intelligence and standing who would be prevented from exercising the right of suf- frage on account of i)hysical inlirmities. I may add still another class, and that is the blind of America, who are perhaps the most intelligent and self-supporting class of the whole country, without an exception, as ii class. There are .several objections to the practical o|)eration of sucli an enactment. So far as forfeiture or adopted citizens are concerned 1 have not any dimbt but that there would be scarcely one of them but tliat in two years would be able to prepare a ballof to comply with all the regulations of the territory; and, further, I have that confidence in the genius and ingenuity of the American citizen to believe that wh(dher he could read or write or not, he would find some one to get his ballot into the box in the way ti'e wanted it. There is another ob.jection as to the classification of persons, in reference to those wlio would be here at the time (d' the ado[ition of the constitution and quahfied voters at that time, and those wlio came afterwards. That would lead to constant and con- tinual contention and turmoil at every election to be held at the polls for the next twenty years. Further it seems to me that there is under the present Australian System whi(h lias been adopted an mcentiye 'to education almost as great as that which would be required by llie adO|)- lion of the educational (lualification, for in many cases the p(>rson who could not read and write would be ashamed to betray his ignorance at the polls. l'''or these rea.sons, which are a few of the olijections which I can see as to the practical operation of the law, I am opposed to th(> acUtption ol the amendment. -Mr. Sta|)leton. of Sil\ei I'.ow: I had iiol inlended lo lake :in\' pai'l in Ihis discussion, but it a|i|iears lo me that it is really iiecessar> to do so. I am satisfied that this amendment is (dearly m confliid with I he aiindes ot the constitution id' the I'luted States, or that a portion (d' it at least is. Nour amendmeni ])rovides that this educational (lualifical ion shall not in- terfere Willi any one who is a voter and has hendofore beia(l or write or not: and it would then be a qui's tion as to wlKdher certain pei'sons were citizens of .Montana territory at CONSTITLTIONAL C.o.X VK.M ION IHSO :{'.3 till' tiinc of the adoption of tins conslitulioii. .Nnw. you must see Mr. i:tiairmaii. that ttiat (liscriniiiiates against tlio same class of persons resid- mi-' m other slates: that is. we piovide that people living in the territory ol Montana at the lime of llie adoption of tins constitution who can neither read nor write can vote for all time, and in the same instrument we pro- vide that those who reside in any other state or territoi'y who cannut read nor write, wlm may come here hereafter, shall not lie entitled to vole. .Now. we ha\e a provision in the federal constitution which reads like this "the citizens of each state shall be entitled U> all privileges and im- munities as Rilizens in the several slates". .\ow 1 am perfectly satisfied that ttiis ami'iidment is in direct conflict with that provision of the con- stitution of the Liiited States. Of course, that does not hear upon the mam question. If you say tliat all parties, whether living in the territory of .Montana at the time of the adoption of this constitution or living some where else, who can neither read nor write shall nol be allowed to vote, of course that remedies this defect, but unless you do that, un- less you include everybody now residing in the Lulled States who may come here hereafter, then it is liable to this objection. Now, Mr Chairman, so far as 1 am personally concerned, outside of this objection. 1 would be in favor of this ami-ndment. if I thought its practical working would be in accordance with the theories advanced here, and if the gentlemen advocating this measure can convince me that the effect of it will be that the evil whicli they desire to remedy will re reached and eradicated, I will gladly and cheerfully support tins amendment: but I do not believe that it will. I suppose the evil they intend to meet is to exclude all the ignorant, vicious and criminal classes from voting. .Now, they should he e.xcluded and I am decidedly in fa\or of excluding them, if the ingenuity of this convention can provide any means by which tln'y can be excluded. But this amendmi^nt will not do that, Mr. Chairman. I vi-nture to say, and I venture to ask tliis convention if it is not a fact, that you take the army of iTance. which infests every state and territory in the United States today, and 1 wall venture ti> say that four hundred and ninety-nine out of every five hundred can both n'ad and write, and a great many of them can read and write in a half dozen languages. .Now, so far as 1 am concerned, 1 would not have any of those men vote, and on the other hanij, I believe education does not consist alone in learning to read and write. Everything we do is a matter of education: it is not known as education, but it Is education in fact. Vou take these young men for instance. One when he is quite young is put by his parents at a trade: he learns to be a good carpenter, blacksmith or cooper, or learns any useful trade: he puts in his time and his talent and works at it day and night: he gives his whole time and attention to it: he nexer goes to school, but he learns his trade well and works at it. He becomes an honest, industrious, striving, law-abiding citizen, accumulates property, obeys the law, iiays lax, is ready to shoulder Ins musket in support of the institutions of the coun- try, and by every act and every deed and everything lie does, is supporting the institutiiins of the country, thoroughly patriotic in every respect: thoroughly imbued with tlie future ot ttie United States, believing in it in every regard. .Now. it so happens that he has put in his time learning this tradi'. He has never gone to school, never learned to read and write. .Now. take the other young man who never learns any trade, never learns anything liy which he can make a living, but he does go to school, and he does learn to read and write, but he learns nothing else. Now, the one is a self-reliant, law-abiding, self-supitorting man. whom the community miglit well be proud of. and you shut liim out ami say he shall not vote: the other is entirely worthless, no good to himself or anyone I'lse, but he has learned enough to comply with the requirements which this test pro- Mdes, and consequently he can vote. .Now. there is a picture of the two parties. Kvery tramp in the country can vote, but the very men who are the foundations of the society upon which we so much plume ourselves, the law-abiding cilizi'ii. who makes a living for himself and his family, who is never arrested for any crime and who helps support the govern- ment in every way he possibly can, you shut out. .Now, if there is any way. as I have said, by which you can shut out this criminal class and these dissolute ijeopic who have no [lossiblc means of support, and who do not vote excepi for wtiat they can sell their \ote for, if you have any possible means by which they can be shut out, I am heartily in accord with it. But I do not lielieve this substitute will do it. If you say that every young man that has no visible means (d' support shall not vote, you 346 PR()CEEl)I.N(iS AM) UEBATKS will ciiiiie nearer lo il. I lieliexc i| Is alinn.sl iiii|iossible. mil I imijossible, to pi'ovide any means by winch you can exclude the class ol' ijeople you desire to exclmle. ami allow Ihe people you want, to vote. 1 ain oppose.i to this amendment lor Itiis reason, that it will not affect th(> thin;: you are tryinjj; to do. One reason is that it is in conflict with tlie coiLStilutiou of the tinted States, and Ihe in which to study the institutions of this country, lo become familiar with our laws and our language, if it may be, but having fulfilled these requiremeiils so far as a knowledge of the institutions of this country is concerned, and having an intelligent view of the condition of things so far as that is con- cerne o! human liberty lia\e lieen thus atiridged. ainl 1 may say tramided upon — 1 submit to you that I flo nol believe thai the man who exercises that in fluence stojis to enquire whether or not that man I'aii read and write the English language, noi' do I believe that it would make any difference if a man can be thus unduly influenced to exercise his vote in the inlerest of his employer. I do nol believi' that the fact of his knowing or his nol knowing the English language will have anything to do with the matter, 't'here are reasons wfiich ,are nearer and more [lolent than lliat; which affect perhaps the question of the loss of his situation. As I understand it, the exercise of I his provision is only to extend (o those who may heri>- after become citizens of this territory, and that it is nol lo extend to those who may be here when Montana enters (hi' union ol Slates. .Now. 1 sutimit to you the question of whethei' or nol that is correcl. Is it proper or right that a man from accidental circumstances should be de- prived of the right of suffrage? Is il republican, as is required by th - enatiling act by which we are framing this constiliition? Is is proper Ihat we shoulfi ha\e here one class of men who b\' reason of accidental cir- cumstances should be exiended the right of suffrage, and another class of men who m all respects are erpially qualified should be ileiiri\ed of Ihat rigbl? Differences would arise likewise as to the queslion of deter- minuig whether this man who claims the right to \ote liappened to be here uiion (he day when Montana's coiislilnliiin was submilled and i-atitiel COlNSTlTLTIUNAL CO.WEMION 1889 347 by I lie people of this state. I say that this proposition as it is now before this committee and tins convention, presents insuperable difficulties, and there IS not sufficient iiuporlauce to be attached to the proiiosition that a man shall be able to read and write the English language to entitle him to the right of suffrage, to entail upon us the consequences of ihi' adoulion of the proposition, wliicli may even endanger llus constituMnn tieiee, 1 am in favor of the main proposition and that this amei.urneiu shall not pre\ail. I'lie iiiieslion was called for. .\lr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, in order tliat we may L:et a direct vod' and save a^ much time as possible. I move tliat all the amendments to the report of the committee be laid upon the table and indefinitely postponed. We will get at it more accurately. rile Chairman: Tlie gentleman is out of order. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Then I withdraw my motion, .Mr. tstapleton. of Silver Bow: 1 am satisfied there are a good many people here who do not desire to vote either one way or the other on this proposition as it stands, iliere are a number of questions involved, and by dividing them they can vote as they see fit on them. Therefore, I asli that the motion be put, and these questions be divided and separated so that the members may vote upon each one, .Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, 1 think now tliat we have had this bill under consideratum ever since we met this morning, and liave discussed it in pretty thorough sliape, that it should be submitted to the House, if any of the members desire to make any distinction as to tlie provisions of this bill, they have a right to do so hereafter. 1 do not want to see this discussion prolonged, and 1 think it is nothing more than just that the bill be submitted to us in order that we may vote on it now. .Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: I would ask for the reading of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from (iallatm. The Cierk read itie amendment tor the information of the gentleman. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I move you. sir. that that amendment be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of tlie gentleman from .Mis- soula (.Mr. Bickford I. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost, -Mr, Joy, of Park: If another amendment is in order I desire to offer one. The Chairman: There are two amendments on the table now. The question now is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I call for the reading of the amendment. The Clerk read the said amendment, being the substitute of the gentle- man from .Missoula. .Mr. Bickford, for the Information of the committee, .Mr. Bickford, of .Missoula: Mr. Chairman, it will be observed by the members of the convention that the substitute offered by myself contains several propositions, differing somewhat from the original proposition introduced by the committee. To the first propostion 1 propose to say nothing: in other words. 1 do not propose to argue before this convention the propriety of conferring upon those persons who have declared their intention to become citizens of the Lnited States the right of suffrage, nor do 1 propose to aruge the proposition contained in the substitute con- cerning the persons or idiots or insane persons having the right to vote, because I think that is covered by section 8 of the proposition iiresented by the committee. However, the proposition which I do propose to discuss before the convenlion is the last contained in the section which I offered, and that is that the legislature shall have the power to confer upon women the rights anil privileges of electors to vote in any or all elections. In Ihe first place it must be remembered by the members of this convention that in iiroposing fop the penple of this territory a constitution that we are creating a fundamental law: one which, so far as we are concerned, is in- tended to last for all time. It then becomes our duty to weigh carefully every proposition that is submitted here as bearing upon the future welfare of the people of this territory, and of the territory itself. The right of suf- frage has been discussed to a considerable length here this morning, and ^ery ably discusssed from many standpoints, but it has not been discussed from the standpoint of woman suffrage. While I am not at the present time in favor of conferring upon the women the right of suffrage, while 1 am opposed to the conferring upon them the right of suffrage, it is 318 PH()Ch:KI)l.\(4S AM) DKH.MKS llioir own laiilt it is so. i'lii' reason is liccausc tlicy ilo no( avail tln'ni- selves ol' the ijnviloge of suffrage at tlii' tniie when it is conferred upmi Ihem; t)ut 1 do say in this connei-fion tliat tlie right of suffrage is just as iniicli a natural riyht to tlH' wKinien jiart of creation as it is to mankind. 1 say then that tins iiropositHni, or the rif-dit perhajjs of suffrage, is either a natural right which comes to us in the same way that the right to livi'. to breathe and to exist comes, or it is a riglil wiiicli is conferred upon us liy till' state in which we live. Viewed from eilher of the standpoints mi'iilioned, il is slid a right which should he conferred upon llie wonu'ii: Mi'Wed m either way il is a right which belongs In ihcm. because Ihey arc jusi as capable of exercising the right of suffraf;e as mankind is. .just as capable of discriminating so far as vofmg^ is concerned as are (he men. In the early days of this country, as was argued here this niormng. tln' right of suffrage was uiinersal so far as men were concerned. They all voted. Very soon there was enacted a law in the Colonies, and the law remained upon the slatute books for a period of about thirty- 1 hree years, which conferred the right of suffrage only upon male citizens resuting in the Ciilonies nxi^v the age of twenty-one years and who lielonged lo seme particular ctiurch. It was discovered that this disfranchised about Ihree-fourths of the men residing in the Colonies, and this restriction was removed. Following along dowMi the line of history, we find that the dif- ferent states in the Union ha\e prescribed certain restrictions as to llie right of suffrage, and while at the pres(Mit time there are only two slates in Ihi' Lnion which provide that there shall be an educational qualificalioii for voters — th(v stales of .Massachusetts and Connecticul — we find thai the other slates ha\e had just such a provision in Ihe constilulion. At Ihe present time the right nf suffrage is extended almost unixcrsally to Ihe male part of the populatiim, those o\er twenty-one years of age and residing a certain time wilhm the limits id' the particular district m which they seek to vote. That being the historical view of the matter, very briefly stated, we find that in 180(3 there was established in the United l^tates what was know^i as a w'oman's suffrage association. This was th.- immediate outgrowth of the fact that about that time there was enfran- chised in thi' south nearly one million voters who before that time occu- pied a position of ser\ltude, who had been slaves in fact. .\t that time the argument was advanced and urged by the people of this country with every appearance of reason and fairness that if the government (d' the United Slates was about tn enfranchise a millKin voters of Ihe ignorant classes, that it was only fair lliat (his reform should go one step further and enfrancnise the womi'ii. Ihey said "we are superior to the negroes: we can cast a more inl(dligeiit \ote than the negroes; we can cast a ballot that will reflect the senliinent of this country heller than the persons who have just come from a state of servitude," and that argument. 1 think, has never been refuted to this day. But the movement, commencing as it did in the eastern states, itid not find a very wide-spread encourage- ment, and in laid it has been growing very slowly from that tune down to the present lime. I Ihmk we can galher from the pages of history thi' fact that this mii\eineiit inaugurated as it was at that time has been gaining ground and has been gaming in public favor from thai time dnwii to (he present. If it is true then that the sentiment in favor of woman f.utlrage has been gaining ground, if we find from the signs of the tunes that the sentimeni is gaining favor, ought we not in our conslilutioii tn make a provision wlii(di will make it possible for the Legislature to confer (he right of suffrage uijon women, it in Ihe future it becomes the pre \ailiiig public sentiment that Ihey should have the right to \()te? (Ap- piause^ [ believe that lo be Ihe correid argument and the correid position in this mailer. 1 want to take as conservative a ]i(isi(ioii as is possible. I want to confer no right but what would he justified by the si'iitiment of the people of this great territory (d .Montana, and at Ihe same time I want to loosen every bond, e\-ery (bread, which would bind us to the traditions of Ihe past, if it is found (hat that lhrea to place in the field a candidate for the Presidency of the United States, and notwithstanding thn fact that the lady wfio was placed at the head of that lictiet did not see fit to go to the polls and cast her vote m favor of herself, still we know that the lady whi> was the camlidate of that party was worthy of the csleeni of every American citizen, not only because she was a woman, not only because she was possesed of the qiialificalions of a \oter, not only because from her education and ex- perience she could cast a liallot which would reflect credit upon any .American citizen, but also because of the fact that she took an interest in these matters, and should under all natural laws be entitled to cast her vote and to have her views in the administration of public affairs reflected. Then we find, tracing the movement a little further, that in many of the slates and lerritories. or at least a few of the states and territories, the right to vote has been conferred upon women. We find that the right lias been ronferi-ed upon women to vote in the state of Kansas in municipal matters, and in matters apiiertaining to the schools. The reports which come to Us from Kansas concerning this right and the exercise id' it by women demonstrate the fact that it has been wisely used. We find that 111 those municipalities whei-e the women have taken an active part in the management of municipal affairs that they have in a measure at least purified thi' administration of public justice, and 1 have here, sir, in the Helena Journal of July 24lh. I88i1. a letter from .Mrs. Humphrey referring t(i woman suffrage as it affects the people of Kansas. The letter is to Hon. Judge .Morris. She says, "^ovlrs in which you ask an opinion upon the subject of woman's suffrage &c. has been received. "In reply 1 would say tha< personally I have not been accounted among the enthusiastic advocates, much less an agitator in behalf of woman suffrage, and hence my opinion." etc. That is the substance of the letter. Mr. Chairman, and 1 need not refer further to that. Enough it is to say that in every place where the right has been conferred upon women it has been for the good of the polls, it is not a fact that the fears of those who oppose the measure are realized, nor are the hopes of the friends of the movement entirely real- ized. It is not true that liy going to the polls the woman is degraded to the level of the man. nor is if true that on the other hand the difficulties that present themselves to every honest American citizen are entirely done away with. It is not true that the ballot is purified to any great extent by the presence of women, nor js it true thai she suffers from any contaminaling influences which she finds at the polls. Therefore, taking this conservative view of the mattei'. and believing that as the framers of a fundamental law. as the persons who sit here for the purpose of saying what the rights of our citizens shall be for perhaps years to come. I say that this right should, be conferred upon the Legislature. The l^egis- lature is quick to respond to any public sentiment which may grow in this direction; the Legislature is quii'k to respond when it is found that the sentiment of the people is in favor of conferring a right: the Legislature can. under the provisions of the substitute which I have offered, proceed to confer upon women the righl to vote in the same way that men have that right, and if in their discretion, if in their judgment at some future time they should believe that women should have the right to vote. I believe they should have the powei- to confer upon them this right. Xot long since I saw in a paper publisher proposition. They say that the crim- inal classes are not entitled to Ihe right of suffrage because they are the enemies id' the very laws that are enacted. They say that the ci-iminai (Masses shall be excluded Ironi Ihe right of suffrage because lln-y infringe these laws, and so far as that is concerned, if it is a guide in framing this constitution, then we should confer the right of suffrage upon women. l does: that they will be proud of him as a man, liberal enough in his convictions to allow him to vote as he thought proper m the interest, of progress, in the interest of good government: and in the interest of nothing more nor less than an act of simple actual justice. (Applause! Mr. Burleigh, of Oister: While I concur in a ;;ieat deal llial has been enunciated by the gentleman who has just taken bis seal, it appears to me Ihat he has not been as circumsiieid in seleiding his text as my old friend. John Dickey, was in Pennsylvania. He had been cMiiidoyed to preach for a congregation, and was nearly slarxi'd to dealh with the prom- ises they had given him id' support. ,lohn was a man of lariie pro|iortions, with a wonilerful api)etite. ;ind nothing made liim suffer so niiiidi ns to go hungry: and he look for his lext one Sunday moi'iiing the saying i\\' Dnxid: "And I said in my haste that all men are liars': he said, "hut, my dearly beloved hearers, if David had lived in this day and generation and been pastor of this congregation, he might have made Ihe announcement al his leisure." So I say my friend is not as circumspect as (dil .biliii Di(d Lord went on and fuld hnn what he had s;aid about the tree of lile and the j.'arden, and the old coward got up and said, said he. "the woman tempted nie." .Now. 1 don't want any excuse of temptations or anytlMug- of that liiud. 1 want the man who is in favor of female suffrage to introduce a negative and independent proposition, and so help me n on earth. .\nd 1 say to my friend if he will bring a proposition up here that is fair and square — I am not going around looking for popular clamor or popular fame or anything of that kind — but if he will bring that proposition up fairly and squarely, 1 will support It if I die in my tracks. fApiilause -Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: .Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the question ought to be divided, and I therefore move a division of the question. There are -two or three independent and separate propositions, and some of them I would like to support and others I am opposed to, and for that reason I would like the question divided. -Mr. Marrion. of .Missoula: I would like to call the attention of the Chair to Rule -41. The Chairman: The gentleman's substitute will be in order as soon as the substitute of the gentleman from .Missoula is ilisposed of. The question is upon the substitute of the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: .Mr. Chairman, 1 mo\ e you. sir. that tin" question be divided, so that the vote may be taken on the separate propo- sitions contained in the substitute and so that the proposition first to be voted upon will be as follows: "In all elections not otherwise provided for in this constitution, every male citizen of the L nited States, or those who have declared their intention to become such, of the age of twenty-one years, who sliall have resided in this state during the twelve months immediately preceding sucli election, shall be entitled to vote." The motKin was seconded. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Mow: 1 desire to offer an amendment lo strike out the words "or those who have declared their intention to become such." Mr. Goddard. of Yellowstone: .Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that to strike out those words would bring us back to the original proiio~itioii ^"o. 14. The Chairman: I think the gentleman's motion to strike out is out of order until the section is perfected. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I desire simply to offer that amendment belore the question is put. -Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Is an amendment in order now to the original section itself? -Mr. .Mayger, of Lewis & Clark: 1 would like to have the proposition read before voting upon it. The Clerk read the same. The Chairman: The question is upon the amendment of the gentle- man from Silver Bow. Mr. Eaton, of Park: I rise to a point of order. I understand that there are two amendments to the section under consideration. Any mem- ber, as I understand further, has a right to call for_a division" of the question when a motion made under such circumstances, that is. with two amendments pending, does not take the course of an original motion; and therefore an amendment under those circumstances to that motion must be ruled out, there being two amendments already pending. 35a PRUCEEDl.NGS AM) UKBAi'ES The Cliaiiinan: Tliei'L' is but mw amciidmenl pciidiiiy. Thai question has been divided. 'J'be aniendmrnt (if tlie gentleman Irom Silver Bow IS to the. first division. Mr. Katon, of i'ark: 1 siini)ly wish to say that 1 understood the Uliair to say that you ruled out tlie anii'iidnient of the gentleman Irom t'ark on the ground that tliere were two amendments pending. The Chair: That was tlie original motion, but the amendment to tin' amendment has been voted down. Mr. Joy, of J'ark: I offer an amendment to the original motion. The Cliairman: It is out of order. There are three other amend- ments. .Mr. Burleigh, of Cuslrr: I would likr to know what we are voting on. The Clerk read the anifiidmeiit of thi' gentleman from SiUrr Bow (.Mr. Clark, for the information of tlie gentleman from Custer. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: It does not seem to me that that amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow should be made. The qualification of requiring a man to be a full citizen of the Lnited Slates, which would I'equire him to have resided somi'wtiere in the United States for at least five years, and havi' taken out his first and second (lapers. does not seem to me to \>i' conducive to tliat kimt oi immigration Ihat we want to have. 1 belie\c that a great deal of lln' foreign immigration that will be likely to come here, if we have a constitution under which they can become citizens wtihout living here pretty nearly one-tliird of a lite- time IS such that we should extiMid the hand of welcome and sa.\' to tliem "As soon as you are in this territory twelve months and have declared your intention to become a citizen you shall have a voice and vote in our elections." 1 do not believe that it is desirable in the interests of a new state as sparsely settled as this is at this time, and of such vast territory, to make that sort of qualification. 1 am opposed to tlie amendment. ( think the original proi)ositioii as it stands is correct. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Is not there an amendment sub- mitted by the gentleman from Missoula, .Mr. .Marrion? ■fhe Chairman: iiis is a substitute. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: 1 ask that it be read for information. The Clerk read the same for the inlorinatioii of the committee as follows: Substitute for Sec. 2. Sec. 2. Every male citizen of the United States and every male person of foreign birtli wlio may luue declared his intention to become a citizen of the United States according to law, not less than one mn- more than five years before he offers to %ote, who is over the age of twenty-one years, possessing tlie following qualifications, sliall be entitled to vote at all elections by the jieople; t^'irst, he shall have resid- ed in the state one year immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote: Second, he shall lia\e resided in the county, city or town where he shall offer to vote- at least sixty days immediately preceding th^ election. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis iV Clarke: 1 calli'd for the reading of that be- cause that is the proposition I propose to support when the time comes. 1 do not believe we can afford to be more liberal than the rest of the new states around us. .Minnesota, Dakota, and our new sister, Washington, have all incorporated provi.>?ions that persons who have declareii tlnnr intentions shall become citizens cd' the territory. I fully concur in the line of argument made by Judgt^ Ivnowles the other day in speaking ol that class of our people, how their lot is cast with us, how they are oil! f;ere helping us to develop a new country, to develop its resources, and that they have a common interest with us. He was speaking at that time of the advisaliility for subji'cting tliem to military duty. 1 lielieve that the rights and privileges of a citizen should go with Itie obligations of a citizen, and I am in favor of making thi'iii citizens of the new states. At the same lime 1 am aware of the abuses of naluralization that hav(> been pracliced in the territory, having simmi voters manufactured upon election day by hundreds, and district and county clerks leaving their offices and going about seeking wlioni they mit;lit iialiiralize. instead of W'aiting 111 their offices for people to present Itiemselves. .Now. the proposition offi-red by the gentleman from .Missoula — Interrupted The Chairman: I would say that that proposition is not pending. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis \ Clarke: I know it is not pi'iidiiiu. but 1 am speaking to it. Ml-. Cooper, of (iailidni: I lliiiik tlie gentleman is out ol order. CO.NSniL IIO.NAL CO.NVK.MIU.N 1889 353 Mr. Magiunis. ol Lewis \ Clarke: V\ ell, 1 will siji'uk In llie propusitimi lieiidiiii: and declare my prelerence for llio one that is to come. .Now, m ttie lust place it provides tliat a man shall not bo a voter under one year after he has declared Ins intention. He not only must reside in the terri- tory a year, but he must lia\e declared his intention at least one year before he offers to vole: and it also provides that that declaration of in- tention shall ha\e no force or effect until fivi' years after it is made. To sliow that a man is in good faith he must iierfect it in five years and become a full citi/i'ii. \\ ith ttiese precaulions 1 would be in favor of e.xlendnig the rijilit of sullrage to tlie class of peojjle therein embraced. If 1 were living in an old and settled state. 1 might take a different view of It, but 1 look upon it tliat we are ail here in a new country; we all liave the same ties, common hardsliips and common dangers, and we are all engaged m the work (d de\elop!ng and building up the resources of this country: and 1 believe that all who are so engaged should have an eo,ual right in expressing their will as to the conduct of public affairs. -Mr. Clarke, of Siher Bow: 1 desire to say a word. I do not agree with the gentleman tliat anyone coming into the Lnited ijtates from any country, no matter what his qualifications may bt' — and as a rule we know a great many are ignorant peopli' — is entitled to the privilege of suffrage m one year. 1 do not believe ttiat a man can sufficiently understand this country — as 1 remarked m a speech recently — 1 do not believe that he can understand the institutions of this country, understand its laws and lis people sufficiently t/> enable him to vote intelligently upon any subject: and 1 do not believe that any man coming from a foreign country to tlie Lnited States should be allowed to cast his vote and have it operate against the vote of any of the people of the State of Montana, wnthin one year. 1 believe that a residence of five years here in the United States is necessary to qualify a man thoroughly to exercise the right of suffrage. i\ow, this question of naturalization, as every gentleman here present knows, has been made aMiiatter of barter and exchange. There has never been an important election taken place in this territory but that upon the day of election or within a few days preceding it. hundreds and 1 may say thousands of men have been brought down to the offices of the No- taries Public, not voluntarily and of their own accord, because they were to become citizens of this great country, but because some politician want- ed their vote and said to this man and that, 1 will pay the expenses of your naturalization papers if you will go down and take them out. Wliat has been the result? Hundreds and hundi'i^ds id' those men took out their naturalization papers, and some of them probaljly sold their votes to the ])oliticians and exercised the right of suffrage, and what has been the result of it'.' I believe that tliere are thousands id' those people in the territory of .Montana today who have never comideted their papers and become full citizens of the Lnited States: and if the law required lliem to take out their last papers and become full citizens of the L'nited States, these men woulil have an inducement to become full citizens of the state or of the United States. As it now stands, these men are without their first papers today, and even if the provision tliat is mentioned by the gentleman from .Missoula in his substitute should be adopted, when the five years expires they will simply go back and renew- their inten- tions to become citizens of the United States in order tliat they may vole. 1 do not like to take up the time of the committee, but these are a few of the reasons I have in my mind lor the conviction and hope I have tha' there shall be a qualification of full citizenship in this State, and full citizenship of the Lnited ISales to entitle a man to M'te in the state of .Montana. i.\pi)lause •Mr. Keek of Deer Uodj;e: I trust this amendment will prevail. I would like to call the attention of the gi'iitleman to section one. which has already become a part of the constitution reading '"I'he Militia shall consist of all able-bodied male citizens between the ages of eigliteen and forty-five years." Ihis would certainly be very unjust and very incon- sistent to allow a man all the privileges of the ballot and to exempt him from military duty and 1 trust that this amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow will prevail. .Mr. Bickfnrd, of .Missoula: 1 desire, sir, at this time to accept the amendment offered by the gentleman from Missoula. 1 think tliat the provisions contained in it are wider and more reasonable than those con- tained in my ow-n provision. 1 believe that it will subserve the interests o54 I'HOCKKDI.NGS AM) DKH.MKS or tliL' ptMipIc ;uul till' votiTs of I his tiTJ-itory iii'llcr than tlicj first part nf the proposiUoii wliicli 1 Dttciod myself ami ihcri'loi-c I desire at this liini' to endorse ttie suljstitute lor my own amendment. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like to make one remark on the subject before it goes to a vote. 1 dislike very mueh to consume the tune of tlie convention but it has been the custom, it has been tlie law. that a man who came over liere in good faith and filed his intention to becume a citizen of the Liiited States should enjoy the nglit of suffrage: and it has been held, sirs as one of tlie cardinal democratic principles of this country — and I may be regarded as a queer one to talk democracy here, but I have had it in my heart for a great many years, and I announce it now as lying at the foundation of my political failli but these men come here and what do they do? i'hey are required by the constitution and laws of the United States to remain here five years before they can come into full citizenship. Are they exempted from taxation? .Not at all. As soon as they acquire a dollar of property, after having declaretl their in- tention to become citizens, they are liable to taxation. Are they exempt from military duty? .^ot at all. They are required to go out and leave their homes and shoulder their muskets and go out in the defense of the liberties of their country. Now, for a mere obstruction, to ignore these fundamental principles of citizenship on account of a mere imaginary technicality — for that is all it is — and ostracise these men from participat- ing in the affairs of the government, is an outrage that would disgrace the Empire of Russia or the Dominion of Turkey. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: 1 just wish to say one word. If the propo- sition that the gentleman states be true there are twenty-seven states in this Lnion that ha\e disgraced themselves by enacting laws requiring full citizenship as a qualification to vote. Mr. Magmnis of J^ewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman nearly all of those twenty-seven stales did that m the earlier days of this republic, and before these iiaUiralization laws were throuoghly discussed. Vou cannot find it in a new stati\ .Mr. Hogan. of Sihcr Hnw: 1 differ somewhat from my friend here from Custer. 1 do not think it right or just for a man to come here from another country, and before he hniriis the ways and customs of the country, and before he is identified with the country, the people or anything else, to allow him to take out his first papers. I had to wait heretwenly-one years before 1 could vote, and 1 was born and raised in the country. .\ow, 1 think when a man comes from a foreign country that he should expect t amend- ment all the lime. (Laughter The Chairman: The (luestinn is upon the aniendmenl of the gentle- man from Silvi'r Bow. .Mr. Stapletnii. of Silver How: There may lie a little difference in the phraseology of tliese two amendments, but the effect is tlie same; the (dfect (d' both is to give those who have declared Iheir intentions to be- come citizens of the Lniled States the right to vole, and to that I am CUiNSTlTUTlOiNAL UO.NVKNTION 1889 355 opposed. It niaUes no dilTereiice who introduced it: wliolher it was intro- duced l)y Mr. -Marnon ol Missoula or .Mr. Bieivfurd of .Missoula, or wiiellier llie gentleman accepts it or wliptlier lie does not accept it: 1 am opposed to botti ol tlieni. My I'nend, .Mr. Burleigh, of Custec. in discussing tins i|ueslion. says that men who ha\e declai-ed their intention to become citi- zens are not e.xempt from military duly. Well, now, 1 believe this con- vention has provided that none but cili/.ens of the Lnited States shall bear arms or shall be subject to military duly in the state of .Montana. Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Citr/.ens of the state. Mr. Slapleton, of Silver Bow: It is quite true the constitution iias not been adopted. The convention lliouglit otherwise and they iia\e e.xempted tliese men who have declare{l their mienlion to become citi/.eiis from military duty in the state of .Montana. Mr. .Magmnis of Lewis A L'larke: I llnnk tlie article reads ""Citizens of the State." .Mr. Slapleton. of Silver Bow: I do not llnnk 1 am mistaken. 1 think that men who have declared their intention, the way the constitution is so far, are not subject to military duty. .\ow, my Iriend, Dr. Burleigh, again argues that because they pay taxes they should be allowed to vote. .Now. there is nothing in that. Mr. Chairman, for the reason, he says, they are obliged to be here one year belore lliey can vote. .Now, during thai, one yeai- tiley have properly, and tliey pay taxes. .Now, we have good and wise ami beneficient laws of Ihe lnited States providing that th' people of all nations and all climes shall come hei-e and become natural- li-ed. If fhey so desire. The laws provide liow that shall be done, and then when they shall first declare their intention to become citizens, and after haxing resided in the Lnited States for the term of five years that they may then apply for and receive their full papers, and fr(.)m that time they become full fledged citizens of the United States, subject to all the duties and liabilities and responsibilities of citizens and to every other duty and to every other responsibility. ,\ow^, as long as they are not citizens of the Lnited States they are citizens of the country from whicli they came, it makes no difference where they came from. The mere fact of coming here and declaring their intention at some future time to become citizens of the Lnited States does not divorce them from their allegiance to Ihe country from which they came. They are just as much citizens of tlial country after they liave declared their intention as before, and it is only by getting out their full papers and renouncing all allegiance and lidelity to the foreign Slate or |iolenlal.' that Iney cease to be citizens of the foreign country and become citizens of the Lnited States. Therefi>re, .Mr. Chairman, we have the sfiectacle of men who are still citizens of a foreign country, who owe allegiance to that country, who are subject to all the requirements of that country the moment they go back there — the moment' they put their foot on foreign soil — we have the spectacle of their coining to this country, and then the next day after declaring their intention, wtielher they can speak our language or know anytliing about our institu- tions and in one year from that time they can vote. I do not believe m that, because 1 do not believe they can learn or understand, anything about our institutions within one year. 'I'he fact is tliat an Amreican citi- zen, or a man born in .Vmerica, naturally imbibes the spirit and intention of our instilulions: he imbibes thi'iii with Ins nourishment from the time fie is born, and he understands more about it at the age of ten years than any man can possibly understand who has only been here one year: and i! he will learn the duties of an American citizen in five years he has done exceeilingly well, and he has given considerable attention to it if he learns it in five years, if he gets to understand the spirit and intention of our institutions, because they are so radically different from those under which he was reared, and so entirely different from all the laws he has known, that it takes him a long time to understand it. And therefore I say that a citizen of another country should not be allowed to vote or help run the institutions of America. 1 am perfectly willing that when thev have complied with the laws of Congress, and after they have become full-fledgi'd citizens that they shall vote. They are not even subject to jury duty. A man is called upon a jury and is asked whether he is a tax- payer: lie says "yes": then he is asked whether he is a citizen of the L'niled States and if he says he has only procured his first papers he is excused from duty. He is not liable to military or jury duty but he has all the privileges of an American citizen without any of the responsibili- ties of an American citizen, and 1 do not believe they should have more 356 I'HOCKKDI.N'dS A.Mi I )KHA IKS lii-nilcgf's (hail \vi> huM' ourschcs. An Ain(?rR-aii citizi'ii is sulijci'l [n iiiililaiy and jury duty. I'tiL'so iiicii liave the saiiii' privileges; they can vote and tlieir proijerly is pidtcelcd hy the laws; they have file same pro- tection wilhoul the responsiliilily. .Now. while I am willing, when they have complied with the laws of (:onf;ress, to give them the same privileges that we liave. I am not in favor of giving them any more. These gentlemen who are in favor of giving them tlie pmiliges of citizenship within on(» year's time are in favor of giving lliem more prnileges Ihan an .Vnn'i'i- can citizen has. They give liim all tlie prnileges witliout caslmg upon liiiii any of the resijonsihililies. .Now, Mr. Chairman, there is no country in tin' world wliere an American citizen can go and declare his intention to be- come a citizen of that country and he allowed to vote. The fact is that we are doing more for these people than they ever do by us in any of tlie countries they come from and it does appear to me that even citizens who are foreign born and who liave been in this country long enough to understand the spirit and intention of our institutions must know hy their own e.xperience and must understand that a man is not sufficiently ac- quainted with the spirit and intention of the institutions of the Liuted States to cast an intelligent vote in one year after lie comes here. If thi're is any doubt about it in his mind, if he will go down to Castle Garden in New Vorii and see them as lliey land there — see all the crimnials of the whole world landing there at Castle Garden, and then think that tliese people can vote in one year after they get here, he will soon get an under- standing of the i|ueslioii. The faci is. we are making of tlie L'nited States a Botany Bay for the wholi' world and making it an asylum for all the lialt and the blind and all the lepers, and then you turn around and say that these people, with all their crimes, who are seni to the tinted States — you want to make th(>in in one year's lime after declaring tlieir intentions full-fledged American citizens who shall help to run our institutions and shall say who shall hold our offices; and one vote of this kind can kill I lie vote of the best man m Montana territory — a man who has made a lifetime study of the spirit and intention of our institutions and knows what IS best to he done, and tlie man who is doing the best he can for America and for her sons and daughters — his vote is neutralized by the vote (d' one of these people who have been liere only one year and have declared their intention to become citizens. I do not think it is right, and tlierefore I shall \ote against it. (.\pplause .Mr. Maginnis. of l^ewis iS; Clarke: I do not like lo trouble llie cmnen- tion more, but I wish to say a few words in reply to my friend from Silver Bow. Now, it has been the law in this territory from the beginning. e.K- cept one term, when the l^egislature changed the qualifications of \olers, .and as my friend from .Missoula said, Judge Kiiowles opened a special term of court, in order that the men should not get out a license. Now, my friend from Silver Bow says that when a man declares his intention to become a citizen he is still suljject as a citizen to a foreign power. If Bismarck, the chancellor of the (iernian empire should undertake lo force the view of the naturalization laws which my friend has enunciated — if England should again try to do it — if l''raiice or any other country should try to do it, we -would have a rej)etilion of the siiirit that showed ilsell wiien Colonel Ingrahani ttireali-ned to open his guns upon llie Auslriaii tiigate because tiiey altempted lo take the body of .Martin wlio had declared his intention to become a citizen of the United Slates. 'The party especially to which he and 1 belong — and 1 do not bring this m as a party question — fought a war uiton that very issue in IHfJ, and prose- cuted it to a successful conclusion; and after it was over mainlained that liigh standard that a man who had declared his intention id' becoming a citizen of this territory should be protected by the Stars and Stripes wherever it floated, in every (luarlei' id the globe. The .•Vnierican peoide have held to that doctrine from that lime to tins, and consequently the argument (d' my friend in tliat respect certainly must fail. Now. if we ad that? IJo you think it is rigid and wise to be less liberal, as I said, than all the states around us? The matter is lakeii M'lbatim CO.\SHTL IKiNAI. CO.W K.N llii.N I.S.S',1 357 li-oin lti<^ constitution of Missouri, of Minnesota, of Iowa, of >>ebraslia. and Kansas, and lllniois. and of all those new states. It is true as my friend from Silver Bow .Mr. Clark said that twenty-seven states of llie Union liave a different clause in their conslilution. but nearly all of those con- stitutions were made long ago. and to the most of those states immigration has rarely come — has not gone in there to build them up. to sweli their resources and to help them become great states. They were finisheil com- munities and had no need of this help. .Now. 1 thought I heard a slur thrown out that a man advocated a principle like this because he expected to get these peo|de to vote for him. .Now. if I know anything I know that the tendency will be against the party 1 belong to and the principles that 1 advocali'. t know that in advocating this thing 1 am advocating the prmciple ttiat is in favor of the continued supremacy of my own opinions, of my own party in this territory, for the character of the new immigra- tion. Scandinavian immigration that comes here, that they naturally fall on the otiier side of the political line. So it cannot be said that 1 am not disinterested at least m advocating this proposition, but I think it would De unwise for us to depart fi-om the liberal policy that the territory has always held to. We have been driven from it once and were driven back to it under press of popular opinion and in response to such an outraged cry as has never arisen upon any question in this territorj-. as I well re- member. We cannot afford to be less liberal than the states around us, with whom we are competing for immigration, and I hope the conven- tion will take the wise and liberal view and adopt the proposition made by the gentleman from Missoula. .Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: The genlleman from Silver Bow, .Mr. Sta- pleton. tias said" to this convention all that it is necessary to say upon the proposition no^v pending. 1 do not, arise to add anything to this argu- ment. -My friend who has just taken his seat has made a statement as to history. It is proper enough that these matters should be called up and discussed. Mr. Chairman, the war of 1812 was fought for the purpose o*' carrying out the same view proposed in this amendment. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Will the gentleman allow me to correct myself or rather to make myself more explicit? The war of I81J was fought against the right of search by English cruisers who desired to searcli American vessels that they might impress men who become citizens of America in order to serve upon their men-of-war. Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: I beg to correct the gentleman again. I think that was not the proposition. That war was fought upon the prin- ciple that they had no right to search American ships to seize those who had become citizens of tlie L'nited States who had at one time been sub- jects of England — not those who had declared their intentions to become citizens. I think 1 am correct in that. .\nd another thing. .Mr. Chairman. I admire a gentleman who belongs to a party, and I know that my frienif i- conscientious in his views — his beliefs — as to the greatness of that party, Its glory and history: but at the time of the war of 1812. there was no democratic party Laughter nor was the President of the United States at that time in office elected by the democratic party. .Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman. I am in favor of this amendment, and when I think that half of our own native born people are disfranchised and a large percentage of the other half are forbidden the right to vote until they are twenty-one years old. I fail to understand why members are so sensitive about the proposition that foreign-born residents shall remain in our country long enough at least to acquire some libera! knowledge (if our institutions before being permitted the right to vote. (nir American youth, as everybody knows from, the advantages of our schools and the general diffusion of knowledge which prevails in this country, are familiar with our history and public affairs at the ages of seventeen and eighteen years and are fully qualified to vote intelligently, but the law says they shall not vote until they are twenty-one years of age. .Now. I think that everyone will admit that the average .Vmerican youth of seventeen or eighteen knows at least as much, and has at least as good a knowledge of our institutions and loves our country at least as much as the average foreigner who comes and lands on our shores and in a few n>onths takes out his naturalization papers and perhaps cannot speak a word of our language. If we could discriminate between intelligent voters, intelligent foreigners who take out their papers in good faith against those whg are not. it would not be so bad. To the intelligent voter from what- ever land or clime, who comes here and takes out his papers in good faith. oolS J'HOCt;EI)I.\(iS AMt DKBATKS 1 say all hail ami welcome and 1 would make his prohationary perind whit'li he should si-rNe as short, as possible. But cviTy mcmhcr of tin-; (■iiii\ (Mitioii kiiiiws that a great many tort'ignprs never think aboid lakniu ('lit. then- naturalization papers, hut on the eve (d' eleetioii they are sought oul in the devious saloons by coniiniltees of some one or other of the liolitieal parties; they are taken up to the court and there they declare their intentions — God save the mark! — the Judge might as well read an I'xiraci from Sanscrit for all they know — but nominally Iheir intentions ai'e declared. J'he real and only intention in the whole transaclion, and lliat IS not declared publicly, is th(> intention of the comnntteeman to si'cure that fellow's vote. (Laughter But the farce goes on: the nat- uralization papers are issued; the committeeman pa.\s for them, and tin' poor. Ignorant dupe goes out of the courthouse a full-fledged voler. 1 say that by that act the proud name of an American citizen is insulted and degraded, labor is endangered, and justice bows lier head and weeps for shame. (Applause) I believe I hat every man who sells his vote, and eveiy man who buys it should be disfranchised, and should be forever forbidden the privileges of an American citizen. Applause I think the duities of citizens to the government are i-eciprocal. If the govern- ment grant privileges to a citizen and protects him in bis life and iiroperty, the very least that the citizen can do is to acquaint himself a little with the principles of the government upon which his liberty depends. Now, it often happens that these men who are hired to take out their papers vote once or twice afterwards as they are told, and then perhaps wander to the ends of the earth and never become citizens at all; but as long as they do vote, their vote counts just as much. Mr. Chairman, as yours or that of any member of this convention. It discriminates unjustly against our own native-born people and in favor of this very class. Now. I do not think there is any discrinnnating unjustly against making a citizen. If when the foreigner takes out his first papers he has the full right to vote, why the necessity of taking out second papers? The very fact that second papers are required is proof that the act of naturalization is not complete, and that the benefits which it confers do not and should not vest until the act is completed. 1 believe it is a proper safeguard which the country exacts to compel a man to show his good intention and give him lime to become acquainted with the institutions of our govermnent. so that when he becomes a citizen he can take an intelligent part in all public affairs. I think the proposition is in favor of a better government and in favor of a higher and more intelligent government and I am in favor of it. (Applause i Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Upon this question of suffrage it is about time we had the courage of our conviction. So far as 1 am con- cerned t am certainly in favor of the amendment proposed by my colleague from Silver Bow, Mr. Clark, and had I my way I would make that seven years instead of five. For fifteen years 1 have watched this question of naturalization wilhm the territory of Montana. Just before every election comes off in my county — and 1 su|)pose all counties are like Silver Bow — there are at least one thousand persons coming there and declaring their intention to become citizens of the United States. The reconts show that less than five percent of them ever perfect that declaration. If this question could be divided in such a way as to permit certain foriMgners to vote, 1 would be in favor of it. Take, for instance, the (iermans or the Irish, when they come to this country, as a rule, they burn the bridges behind them and become as good citizens as we have. On the other hand. you lake other foreigners, notably the Italians, they come here and di'- clare their intentions and as (piick as they accumulate $150 or ^'.'OO they go back to Italy and that is the last you see of them. In the meantime, if he has an opportunity to sell his vote for a couple of dollars, he is on hand, and 1 belle^■(> tiiat the youngest i)age in this body is today better entitled to vote than fitly per cent of the foreigners who land at Castli> (iardeii. This question Is a (lueslion that is coining up all o\er thi' United Slates. I feel that any foreigner that comes to this country, takes out his first papers and declares his intention, who lives here and finally becomes a citizen, as I am, or any otli(>r citizen of this country, should he allowed the privilege of taking a part in the affairs of the government. But you take for instance this race of Italians I speak of. Only a short time ago four or five hundred of them were import(>(l from some iilace. I know not where, into Silver Bow County to work upon the Butte Short 4.ine Hailroad. Tliev hail I ii lliei'e hul a slioil tune liefuie Ihe conlrartors CONSTITUTIONAL OOiWEMlO.N l.SH'.l 35s) i-amc Ircim llic Di'uvcr A Hio Uramli' ami tnnk llu'in away ildwii tliiTi^. If we liad had an cIcL-tion lien" they Wduld Iium' xoti/d licrc; and Iicimi dnwn in Colorado in time (o volo again thiM-i'. I'lu'y have adnihusUTcd to I hem the oath ttiat you reiiouiiee forevei' allegianee to any foreign state, prince or potentate whatever so help you (iod. and tlieii tlo'y are as good Aniei'- H-an eitizens as any oilier citizen who is born and raised in this coniilrv, and their voles are the equal o{ the most intelligent of our peoplr. A friend has called my attention to a little article here which voices my si'iitiiiients. I Heading "It is somewhat uncomfortable to reflect that a citizen of intelligence, [icoperty. good iiroral chai'acter. and a keen sense of the responsibilities and dignities of his duties as an American citizen. may liave his ballot oflset by an Italian Lazzaroiie. exuding garlic at e\ery pour of his otherwise unpleasant body, whose intelligence does not equal thai (d' the monkey for wliom he grinds the organ, and upon whose .sense, industry and honesty he depends for his maintenance and macaroni.' Laughter and Applause . The Chairman: The gentleman from .Missoula offers an amendment. The question on tliat amendment is divided. To I lie first di\ ision of that question the gentleman from Silver How offers an amendment. The ques- tion IS now on the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow. .Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: Before \otin^ I would call for the n'uding of the section with the amendment. The Clerk- read same. The Chair [lut the question on tin' ami'iKlniiMit of |hi' geiitlcmau Ironi Silver Bow Mr. Clark , and a dnision being called for the same was de- clared carried by a vote of fifty four in the affirmative to seven in the negative. .Mr. Collins oi' Cascade: 1 lia\e aiiiillicr aineiidmi'iil to offer to the first division. -Mr. Bickford of .Missoula: I would ask if the amendnu'iit offered by- Mr. .Marnon of .Missoula is not now in order. The Chairman: 11 is not in order at the present time, the question is divided. The Clerk read the amendment for Mr. Collins of (Cascade as follows: I move to amend by striking out the word "Mali'" and insert after "person" "wittiouf regard to the se.x". The motion was seconded. i'tie Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Cascade, .Mr. Collins, and a division being called for. the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty five in the affirmative to forty-three in the nega- ;ive. -Mr. Breen of .Jefferson: I have a snbstilntr lliat I wish to infrr.Juce in place of the ameiidmenl. I he Cliairman: The Chair is of ttu' opinion the sulistitute would be out (d order. .Mr. Breen of .Jefferson: I sent up an amendment half an hour ago. .Mr. .Joy of Park: 1 would like to inquire if an amendment would be in order to this subdivision. The Chairman: ^es sir. .Mr. Joy of i^ark: 1 would likci to offer one. The Clerk read the amendment offered by .Mr. Joy of Park as follows: ".•\mendinent to Sec. 2 Subdivision 1. "Insert after the word "years' in line the words "who has bei'ii convicted of felony or treascm against the [ lilted Slates." The Chairman: The Chair is of opinion that that would belter ajjply to the second subdivision of this question. .Mr. \\ arnn of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chairman. 1 move the adoption of llie first section. I'lie Chair: The question is on the first subdivision of this substitute offered by the gentleman from Missoula. The Chair put the question on the said subdivision and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read the second subdivision as follows. "Provided no idiot 01 insane person shall be entitled to the rights and privileges of an elector. ' .Mr. Burleigti of Custer: I w-ould like to inquire of the gentleman who offers this amendment by what criterion or standard this status is to be judged, because it might be that half or nearly half of this convention ;i()(l l'RUCKEl)l.\(iS AM) 1)KBATE8 wiiuld lir iisl i"irisi'(| imkIit IIkiI |irii\ isinn l.iin^ililcr I wnulil like Id Iiuvi- SI line standaril lixnl. -Mr. Miililli'liui (if Ciislci': ,\lr. Cliairniaii. it scciii.s In iiie that tliat is liractically two prdpdsitum.s and slrnuld Iji' treated as (\V(i propositions: that IS, first tfiat an idiot or lunalit- sliould not Iju ixM-niittcd to vote. 1 lie otlier is as to tile matter- of tlie convict or person wlio lias siTveil a term in ttie penitentiary: tlial is a st>parate and distinct projiosilion. I mii\i. thai llial tie stricken out entirely lor the reason that section eight (il llie proijosition is practically the same Ihiii^. 1 hi' niolion was seconded. The (^hair put tlie que.stinn mi llie said motion of tlie gentleiiiaii from Custer {Ml. Middh'toni and a Mde lieing taken tlie same was lieclared carried. .Mr. .Middlelon of Cusler: I i.lo mil want In jiose m I Ins com eiilinn as a friend of the criminal, or of lliose persons who have been sentenced to the penitentiary and served a term 1oi- crime, but it does seem to me that where oui' leyislatui-e enacts a criminal .statute fixing- certain pen- alties for the commissiim of certain offenses that that penalty when jiaid or iierformed should purge the mdnidual so far as the state' is con- cerneil of tlie crime for which he served. It does not seem to me that it is desirable, or ttie |iart of wisdom, to have a law or a eonslitutional pro- vision thai will disfi-anchisi' a man forever after serving a term of say SIX months m the penitentiary. The man presumably is put tliere for the purpose of being reformed, tie may have seriously ami from tlie bottom of his heart repented of his erinie. The offense lor which he was convicted and for which he served that term might perhaps be a technical offense, one that you would from a moral point of view not say was a serious crime, and still by that sort of provision in the constitution you place that man m a position where he is deprived of the benefits of citizenship — those rights and liberties which we as free and independent citizens prize so highly. And il seems to me that a provision of that kind, places that individual where he will as soon as having served his term of sentence continue to be a criminal and iierliaps perpetrate some much more serious offense than that for which he served that sentence by reason of feeling tliat he lias lieen branded for all lime to come in the state of Montana against casting his \ ote on account of that service in the peniten- tiary. 1 do not believe tliat that should be the intent. 1 do believe that all persons should be ])unisbed for crime. 1 do believe it is competent and prniier to leave the matter in the hands of the legislature, to say that for this offense you shall serve five years, that for that offense you shall serve twenty years, and that for a caiiital offense you may be hung: but to say, if you serve six montlis in the penitentiary you shall forever after that regai'dless of how frivolous a matter you serve that term lor, be dis- liancliised in the state of Montana, and we will place you in a position where you cannot have the rights of citizenshi|i — where all you can do is to conlinue to be a criminal the rest of your life — I submit, Mr. Chairman thai that is not reformatory: that its tendency is vicious. The argument that 1 attempted to make ttie other day when a similar question was up practically a portion of it bears upon this same subject. 1 do lielie\-e that n-ien so far as possible when convicted and sentimced to the |ieiulenliaiy should be reformed — should be placed tliere under such surroundiims and influences as would tend lo make Ihem belter men, as would tend to make I hem repent of the wrong I hey had done, and as would tend when tfu.l term of sentence expired to make them go out into the world and be again men worthy of being considered as citizens, notwithstanding the fact of iheir having served that sentence: and I do not believe, Mr. (Chairman, that we wan! to put that in our constitution. I ninve you that it he stricken out. The motion was seconded. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: I desire, Mr. Chairman, to concur with tlie gentleman in his views iiiion this subject. We have. 1 believe, adnpled or incorporated into this const itutinn a proxision which comprehends that justice in this stale shall be reformator\- in its nature and iiol vindicatne. ^ow. the object of a sentence lo the state's prison is to iiuuisli the criminal and I believe thai when he has gone witlim the prison walls and sei ved out lliat lime, tlial he has in the eyi's of the law fully expialed his crime. I beliiwe tliat when that criminal is set free and those striped garments are cast off, and tln' shackles from his feet discarded, thai he ouglil not lo be sent forth mlo the world with the mark id' Cane upon his brow, Itiat exery man may pmnl In him wilh sciu-n and say. "there goes a COiNSTITL IIO.NAI, C.O.W K.\ HON l,S8il 301 ci-iimiKil'. Hul iii\- iiinuiiiu IS, llial \(i\i nuf^lil lther he has or not. it doesn't affect the illustration, Suppose he hapiiens to be convicted of a crime, perhaps unjustly. The court administers the law and he is consigned to the penitentiary for six months or a year, which would be the period for a felony. We look around and say, what was the nature of that crime? W hat is crime made up of? Is it made up of a criminal act or a criminal intention? Now, suppose he is sent to the penitentiary. The poor boy goes thei'e. fie repents in sackcloth and ashes. He says 1 went with my companions, I fled away. He has a good education. He has had the instructions of his father from Silver Bow County, the philisophii' and other teachings to make him a man. He gets out and says "I have atoned for my offense. 1 have satisfied the penalties of the law. I can iiow_ go home, for my mother has forgiven me, my brothers will forgive me, 'my sisters will forgive me, and they will embrace me when I get back, but my father has put a clause in the constitution which says that 1 shall be branded as a villain all the days of my life." Laughter and A|i|dause}. .Mr. J. IV. 'i'oole of Lewis cV Clarke: 'i'here are two views expressed with reference to- this matter, and it occurs to me that both of them are extreme. One of them is that the man who is convicted and sentenced to the penitentiary ought never to be restored to his civil rigtits: the other IS tliat he shall be. .Now. it seems to nie that (he proper ground upon which to place this proposition is that the individual should be restored to his civil rights and to his vote if he shall have been pardoned by the proiier authority. It often happen.? — it does happen whether often or otherwise ihaii an innocent man sometimes gets into the penitentiary and it happens that the public, acting through the chief executive of the slate, interposes his paraon; and 1 think it will not be claimed by the gentleman from Silver Bow or from any other section of this terriliry that when the fact is known that a man is innocent and the executive have interposed the authority and the strong arm of the law to release him. that he ought ever aiterwards to be disfranchised as a citizen of the United States. And again, I think an amendment ought to be added to it — ttiese words ought to be added to the amendment "Unless pardoned for the offense for which he was convicted". 11 may happen, in the line of argu- ment pursued by the gentleman from Silver How, .Mr. Clark, and othi'rs. that a man who has been convicted upon testimony which was true, and ttie guilt admitted, or upon a plea of guilty for that matter, after having been sentenced to three or four or five years, as Dr. Burleigh says, and haxing served that term of sentence he has reiiented of his crime and de- sires to lead another and a b(Mter lite. In that kind and character of case It ought to be left to the executive to say, after having conferred with lhi> Warden of the iienitentiary and others in autliority, .just before tlie close of the term, of tliat individual — it ought to b(> within the power and autliority of the (iovernor to intervene and interpose the executive clem- ency by means of a pardon. If that was don(> it would be Udt to the Uover- no[- to discriminate between the kind of indiMdiials who are likely to be well disposed towards the government and wlio will be likely to make good citizens of the United States, and the other class, whom it would be better lo disfranchise, and not leaM> him to pardon indiscriminately and restore anybody and everybody to their civil rights. So that theri' are two classes id'' cases whiidi would be hemdiled by tins amendment which I suggest. One would be the nuioceni man. and the other woulri be the citi- CO.\?>rriL ilO.NAL CK.WKMIU.N !««!• 3(53 /I'll who IS well (lispospcl towards tho nDvcnimi'iit. and lor linn IIum-i' would 111' sumo iiossililc show ni Ihi' luluro. 1 proposi' this amemlmi'iit. Mr. Carpt'iitPi- of Lewis iV Clarke: I am opposed to putting any pari of that 111 Section 'J. Ill reference to persons convicted of offenses of any kind. 1 think the committee have made the best disposition of that question. Section 9 reads "I'he legislative assembly shall have the power to pass laws excluding from the rights of suffrage persons convicted of infamous crime". It seems to me instead of legislating too far in the first sections of this proposition, we might safely leave this branch of it to the legisla- ture. Infamous erimes i take to be those punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary. I'here are two classes of those crimes. One class involves moral turpitude: another class does not. A man may commit a crime, be sentenced to the penitentiary, and yet be as honorable a citizen as there is m the community. An illustration of that would be a man who considered himself injured when perhaps he was not, but believeing that he was. on sudden provocation, committing an assault. He might have committed a dangerous assault in the heat of passion resulting from what he sup- posed to be a provocation, and yet that man would come out of the penitentiary as honorable a citizen as there would be in the state. His intentions had always been honorable, and yet he had suffered the penalty of an indiscretion. It seems to me that this question can safely be left to the legislature to provide such rules in reference to tlie disfran- chisement of persons convicted of crime as they think proper, making it dependent on the wisdom of the Governor or providing other regulations in regard to it, and classifying if they choose the different grades of infamous crime. The Chairman: The motion is to strike out. .Mr. J. K. Toole of l^ewis iS: Clarke: 1 would say to the chair thai 1 do not desire my amendment lo be put unless this proposition should pass. The Chair tlien put the question on the said motion to strike out and it vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Chairman: The Clerk will read the substitute of the gentleman from .Missoula. rile Clerk read the same. .Mr. .McAdow of Fergus: The Organic Act whicli creates our terri- tory empowers the legislature to confer upon women the rights of suf- frage. In one of our sister territories. Wyoming, the experiment has been tried for now some twenty years, and from the best testimony that we have, from the judges on the bench in that territory, from the tjovernor, from prominent citizens, it has been a grand success. .Now. .Mr. Chairman. 1 believe that it wtII redound to the credit af this state if we put a clause in this constitution empowering the legislature to grant the rights of .suffrage to the women. We do not want to close the door in the face ot our intelligent women. We do not want to build up a Chinese wall that will forever prevent them from the rights of suffrage. 1 believe, sir. that lo place in the liands of women the ballot it will be an effective weapon, for the working girl can say to her employer, you shall |iay me the same wages for the same services Applause . It will place in the hands of the mother an effective weapon to protect her home, her chil- dren, and her person from the unjust acts of a brutal husband, if she can say to tiim "T can vote": 1 will cast my vote for an officer that will en- force the laws, that will protect me." In these foreign countries I believi- today nearly every one of them extends the right of suffrage either by law or by inheritance to the woman. This republican go\ernment is the only country I believe today thai prohibits the suffrage from one-half of our people. -Now. gentlemen, one of our fundamental principles is that taxation without reperesentation is tyranny. That, sir. is what our fore- fathers fought for in the revolution. That, sir, is what the tea was cast overboard in Boston harbor for. .\'ow. gentlemen, if we extend the rights of suffrage to the women it will certainly be in accord with that funda- mental principle. It has been said upon this floor that government is upon the consent of the governed. .Now, 1 would like to know if women are to be governed and have not a voice in the making of the laws. They are amenable to them: they are brought into court and tried by one-half of the enfranchised citizens of the state. I have heard the expression here that this is a government for the iieople and by the people. Now. gentle- men, if our intelligent w-omen are not people, what are they? Our fun- , damimtal law-s are certainly conflicting with what we are doing at pres- 3(54 I'HDCKKDI.NCS AM) DEBATES rill, and I tirlit'Nc, sir. if \vi' t;iMiil llii.s nj^lil of sulfraj-'i- tn wdiiiiMi it will ri'dduiid to GUI' crodil. I lliiiik at jircscnt it wnuld \ii' propiT and right lo plan' in our coiistitulion tlic I'l^ilil of siiffi'af;!' for womoii, but if that cannot bo doiii'. I trust llicrc is sufficient libcralUy anions: the nicinbprs (d this convent 1(111 — that liberality for which Montana is noted — not to close the doors and build up a wall against the rights of our women. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I would ask llie gentleman if lie desires to offer an amendment to anyttiing now before the liouse. .Mr. .McAdow of l-'ergus: 1 am in favor of this amendinent peiKling. .Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: For more than a quarter of a centur> I have studied tliis question now before the convenlion in all id' its phases. I haM' heard some nl tlie liesl orators, both men and women, in flie L. lilted States S|ieak iiitou tliis question, and long ago 1 have been con- vinced that we would lia\e a better government, a purer government, based upon better principles ol .justice, if women were allowed to vote, than our present governmenl. I'liere are, however, some objections to the amendment of thi' gentleman trom Silver How. I would be in favor of submitting a separate iiropositnin to be voted upon by the people, not nicoiporated as a part of the constitution, because it might endanger it. .\ Note for the constilulion as a body can be taken, and se|iar'ate proposi- tions as this convention may ()ropose can be voted upon: and if tins pi'oposition were voted U|)on separately by the people, ami they are satis- lieil with it, then it would be incorporated and form a part of ttie con- stitulioii. I believe, sir, that I would rattier favor at the polls Ibu prop- osition offered by the gentleman from Fergus. Vet there are some em- barrassments, it is fair to say. 1 will take this illustration now, that 1 tiave made to myself, and 1 say it frankly to the g(>ntlemen id' this con- vention that in some one of the several standpoints I am satisfied that my wife's vole at the polls would, as a laile. tie as gO(.iil or better than mine: but I would not favor any [iroposition that would subject lii'r lo military duty. The basis of military tluty is that of the suffrage. .Now it might tie — she is a very domestic lady — 1 don't think she is ambitious to become a military hero at all — I think she leaves that to her husband: but if she sliould want to raise a military company oxer there al Nirginia and go to some i'iicam])ment, as they dul here last fall, and be subject to the same kind of grub that tliey furnished here at Helena, that she would have cause for a divorce, .\gaiii, sir, she is rather a popular lady, well adii- cated, and it might be that the people of .Montana would want to elect her (iovernor and in that case when 1 walked along tlie streets my friends would say "there goes the luisband of the (iovernor". That, .Mr. Chairman, would be unjust discrimination. I would not like it. .\nd again it miglil be that they would want her lo run for Congress— to go to the Senate or House of Representatives. I tliink, .Mr. Chairman, that I would oppose that. 1 think it would be better for her to stay at home and' take care of her babies, where she does very well. II would seem to me in that case more appropriate and more accordingly lo the eternal fitness of tilings if i were to go to Congress and she were to take care of tlie babies, tliougli I am not a candidate. If you will provide in this constilulion that slie shall have the right of suffrage, but not be eligible to office except as pertaining to school elections, and lie exempt from military and jury duty, I will g:ive it my hearty support. .Mr. Rickards of Silver How: I liave not taken up any of tin' time of Itle convention or of this committee, and neither do I intend now to take up more than a moment or two of your valuable lime now. How e\er. I am always ready to give a reason for the ho|ie that is wittiin me. .Now there are some gentlemen on this floor who have the liappx' faculty of erecting men of straw to see how gracefully tliey can knoidi thi'iii down. Now I predict that unless there is belter material bir cougn'ss- men and gOAernors on the oilier side of tlie house than tlie side lluil has just spoken, he will never be llie Imsbaiid of a Goxernoi- or tlie Im-^- baiiii of a Senator, (l-augliter and applause . Now. genllemen, it seems to be III order to tell anecdoles. It is saiil ttiat during Hie recent war some one \ isited thai great and good man Abraham l.incolii during lhi> dark hours, and said to him ".Mr. Eiiicoln. I am sure that we must succeed in our cause, because the Cord is on our side." .Mr. Cincoln said lo him "there is one other consideration I hat is of more importance to me ttiaii •that." "ray, sir. what can be more iiuporlant llian tlial"? Tliouglillul and rexiTeiit as lllal gri'al and ijood man evi'r was, he aiisw eri'il. "to know CO.\5?ilTLil().NAL CU.N\E.M1U.\ 1S89 3(55 that. \vi> are on the Lords sult>". .Now. gi-iil lemon. I am not so much inter- ested in being on the woman's side as 1 am to have them on our side. .\pplause -Now. I shall not attempt to enter into any argument why the right of suffrage belongs to women. 1 am not as old a man as many of you take me to be. 1 am ei)m|iarali\ ely young — younger than my friend from Custer; 1 have not had as mueli experience — but i say with pride that ever since 1 have been able to give this matter any consideration I have been a warm adherent of the doctrine iluit women should have the riglit of suffrage. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: \\ ill the gentleman allow me to make one re mark? 1 di'su-e to suggest to him that age consists not in the multitude of years but in the manner in which they are sp.ent (Laughter . .\lr. Kickards of t^llver Bow: 1 did not catch the remark but 1 do not doubt it was good, ilie gentleman always says good things. .Now, gentle- men. I say 1 have always been a warm adherent of the doctrine, if you will call It such, that the right of suffrage rightfully, if you please belongs to women; but I am that shrewd a business man to know that it is the part of policy that when you cannot gel all you want to take what you can get. and 1 am persuaded that if we should incorporate in our con- stitution a clause giving to women the right of suffrage, there are un- gallant men enough in .Montana to defeat that con:?titution. Therefore 1 do not stand before you and urge that. This resolution, or rather the amendment now pending, asks a very reasonable thing; it is simply to give us as a state what we have had ever since we have been a territory. Con- gress gave us that. Has any legislature seen -fit to abuse the trust re- posed in them by the Organic Act.' Has any legislature attempted to antic- ipate public opinion and force up(ni our constituency woman suffrage? .No. 1 believe that if we leave this matter just where if is and has been ever since we have been a territory, we leave it in safe hands, and tha' is all 1 ask you to do. .Now. I confess to you that I am not ashamed — and never expect to be asliamed or apoligize to any man or sei of men lor my adherence to these principles. 1 say it with pride, that I have taken my wife's hand upon my arm and led her to the polls and voted with her upon school questions. I loved her just as dearly, reposed just as much confidence in her afterwards as 1 had done before; and I believe gentlemen, that the time will come when all of us who have wives — I wish you all had — will be glad of the opportunity some time — I do not say all times — but will ue glad of the opportunity in taking that one by the hand or arm who has borne us children, who has nursed us in our sickness, who has been to us more than all else on earth, to help us knock down into smithereens the machinations of brutal men. .Xpplause I say I believe the time will come when we will gladly avail ourselves of that opportunity. .Now, when that time comes I would want the women to help us smash the slates or do anything else that has been set up against right and decency, 1 want the legislature to have the power to give them that right: and that is all that i plead for today, and 1 believe that the good sense of this convention — i make no attempt at flattery, but looking over this body into your faces, 1 believe t size up this convention right when 1 say that we will adopt this amendment and leave this matter in the hands of the legis- lature (.\pplausej .Mr. W hitehill of Deer Lodge: I do not know of any cpieslion that has come before this convention in which I feel a deeper interest than the one which is being discussed at present, but it seems to me that the advo- cates of this proposition have not stated all there is in it. 1 do not believe If we are to admit the propositions which they present that there is no an.swer to their arguments. Now I think, if we start out with the proposi- tion that women are entitled to the same privileges that men are. as they assert here, and that the natural rights of women in shaping gov- ernmental affairs are the same as men's, that then there is no argu- ment to meet that question. So that I do not believe from my standpoint that the advocates of this proposition state the proposition fairly. There is n(> cjuestion but what two men occupying the same position are entitled to the same rights: there is no (piestion but what two women occupying the same position are entitled to the same rights; but when you come to say that a woman is entitled to the same rights as a man in every respect, 1 say thai that is simply an assertion, and there has been no argument presented here which convinces me. 1 would gladly vote for this proposi- tion if I believed that the good women of this land, the good mothers, the 366 PROGEKDINGS AND DEBATES good women whuni we all icsptn-t— if I believed tliat one hall' ol' tlii'ni even were desirous ol having this proposition passed, I would gladly sup- port It. But to go back to the proposition I say thai it is a law ol nature — it is implanted in the human system— it is a law of God you might say- that this difference exists. It is not through any desire of the men to" be tyrants over women to prevent them from having their just rights, that 1 oppose this. 1 think the men who are opposed to this are animated with quite as chivalric principles as any of the advocates of it, and 1 am free to say that they would go as far in firotecting tlie rights of women as any men would. I say that when it comes to protecting the married wonien in her rights of property 1 will go as far as any man in this coiixention. 1 say it is unjust that a lazy loafer of a husband who is married to a woman can take away her property from her should she receive any. I say that that is unjust to the women, and for that purpose and to that extent I will go so far in passing laws that will protect the women in the rights of property as any person. But when it comes to giving the rights of suffrage to women I say we are going against a law — we are setting aside a relation which I say has been divinely iiiiplauted, ttiat is the mar- riage relation. If we are prepared to say now that marriage is a failure, why then I am in favor of giving the women the right of suffrage. If there are to be no marriages 1 can see no reason why the women should not vote; but so long as this institution is a part of our governmont— and it is; it cannot be avoided — why then I say that I am opposed to this, because it is the entering wedge which will bring about not woman's ele- vation, but her downfall. Everybody knows what the history of the Roman Empire was, that during the republic and the consulates the woman's rights were curtailed, and that was the time of their greatest influence; that when in the latter days when wealth and luxury were having full sway there was a law passed that the contract between women and men was simply a civil contract that a man and woman could go together and live for a certain period and at their own option dissolve the civil relation. Now. 1 have seen it in some of the constitutions, and it is in many of them, that marriage is a civil contract. If that be so, if there is nothing more in this relation than that it is a civil contract, why then it is proper for the women to be dixorced at any time they can agree with their husbands. But, is there any person who believes in any such doctrine? The law of selection is implanted in the breast of every man; it is illustrated by the selection of unintelligent creatures. The birds of the air make their selections, and there are certain animals where the male makes his selection and is as true to that selection as any husband is to his wife. .Now, 1 say that w^oman's influence is exercised in a different way. 'l"o be sure she has no right to vote but what home is there in which the mother is not respected? What son is there that will not protect that mother and do everything in his power that she desires; what husband — and I would say in regard to Brother Rickards proposition that he has been proud to lead his wife to the polls, I would say that if slie xoted a different ballot, I do not believe he would have so gladly taken her to the polls; and that is just where the trouble comes in. So long as th(> woman obeys the man and votes as lie does, he is glad to take her to the polls, but the instant she refuses to be governed in that vote as he desires, there is where the dissension enters that will cause division — that will cause the downfall of woman instead of her elevation. Now, I say that every man who is opposed to this is just as much in favor of the protection of woman as the men who are in favor of it; for it is said that the man is to the woman as the cord is to the bow; and 1 say that every person who recognizes this marrinage relation is as much in favor of the protection of the woint'n as are those who clamor so much in favor of female suffrage. The woman's cause is the man's; they rise and sink together. Mr. Breen of Jefferson; I may not be as well versed, or 1 may not be as well acquainted in the ways of enterlaining this con\eiilion upon questions affecting the common welfare (d' the people as the majority of our speakers here are. but I desire to say that I trust my sense of ju.s- tice may be as well developed as thai of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. He claims that .Mr. Rickards' wife ma\- vol(> liis way, if Mi', Kickanls lel< her. Now I would be willing lo wager a new liat Ihal, if the genllemnn fi'om Deer Lodge has a wife that she will \ot(' every time the contrary way from what he votes and that's wlial's llii' mailer w ilh liini. Laugh lei' iuid ap- CO.NSTITUTIUNAL COAVKNTIUX 1889 3ti7 pkiuse Ldokinf,' at tins mailer Ironi a standpoint of justice, I would like 1(1 know the reason wliy I lie women arc not as well qualified to vote as the men of iMontaiia, hut as llial is past 1 will let it go for the present. Aow if we were here without an election day commg on us this fall — if we forgot all about that and looked at it from a standpoint of justice 1 think there would he more than twenty-nine votes registered in favor of woman suffrage, and I llnuk also that we would have had an intelligent qualifi- cation required for a voter this fall, and not have the men from Kthiopia or Italy or any other place vote as we vote. I am glad that the time will come wtien we will have the names of these twenty-nine men that dare lo stand up her and say tliat the interests of their mothers, their wives, and their sisters, are as dear to them as their own interests, and that they shall have an equal right with Iheni in the affairs of this life. The women that are born here and raised here and have a knowledge of the instilutions of the country, they can say as intelligently as any of the men what lights they shall look up lo. At the same time the penalty is just the same for women as for men, and if she breaks the law of the land she serves her sentence. If she is supposed to obey the law then I say let her vole, and if she is not supposed to obey the law then I say let her not vote. If they are supposed to grow up and become useful citi- zens, 1 say then give Ihem the same privilege, and I trust that when we do that this gentleman that stalks around the polls and clasps a bottle of old rye in his bosom, that his business will he knocked in the head. 1 have seen that done several times in this territory myself. The opponents of this measure claim again that the women do not want to vote. Well. at one of the greatest political meetings that 1 ever attended in Montana five years ago this coming fall, I heard a gentleman speak and in his opening he said that no doubt the young ladies of Montana would encour- age the boys to vote for Mr. So-and-so, because he was single, and was a handsome young gentleman and approved of woman suffrage: but he claimed also that he was a married man, and would request the married woniini of .Montana to urge their husbands to vole for the candidate, as although his wife had never expressed a desire to vote she didn't want him to sa\- she should never vote. Now this question is certainly not a new question, and it is a question which is one of the most important before us. I heard a lady on this floor, since 1 have been attending this con- vention, say that il made her shudder to think that the men of her town that she saw marched up to the polls and voted were making laws under which her children were compelled to live and grow up. 1 am the brother of si.x sisters. Kvery one of them is as intelligent, every one as sensible, and all possess a better education than I do, and I am willing to grant the ladies of .Montana the right of suffrage, not only in the future at any time If the legislature sees fit to grant them this privilege, but at the present time: ami even though this clause is not adopted, I will not get up like a gentleman did her on the floor today and say that if a certain clause fie was opposed to carried, lie would endeavor to defeat the constitution if he had to spend money in the attempt to defeat it. But, if this clause IS defeated, winch 1 have every confidence it will not lie, then I say that we that are in favor of it, it is not our duty to go forth and defeat the constitution, but to go forth and send a legislature here that are in .sym- pathy with the popular wish, and not with the ignorant elements of the people of Montana. (Applause; .Mr. t^argent of Silver Bow: I am in fa\or of giving women an equal chance with men. Placed side by side in every relation of life, she is a safe adviser, a wise counsellor and a true helpmate. If this be true, and I ttnnk no one will deny it, then this question involves something more ttiaii the justice or the propriety of extending suffrage to women: but our own manhood and our sense of fairness and justice, and that degree of excellence, moral and intellectual, which we have attained is at stake, and will be determined by the way in which we treat this question. The true woman elevates and refines every sphere and adds grace and dig- nity to every calling in which she engages. In the moral world she is pre-eminent: in the world of society she reigns supreme: in deeds of charity and in works of love she is untiring. In every station of life which man in his selfishness permits her to occupy she fills with credit and honor. But it is said that politics is an exception to the general rule, and is a domain upon which woman should not enter. I fail to see the course of the reason which reaches this conclusion. Man in his su- 3(W PROCKKDI.NGS AM) UKBATES preine egotism and sellisliness has unjustly arrogated to hiinseir tin.' soli' right to manage and niismanagi- nffairs of state and has dnniod Itiis I'lght Id woman. Uur goxi'i'unienl is liut llio laniily enlarged, and in the govei'n- nient ol the family woman bears an equal share, she exereises equal judg- ment, more tact and intinitely more patience than man. If in this small sphere she is a credit and success why should she not be equally success- ful in a wider field? uut it is said that politics is degrading, and that it woman engages in it she will lose some of that charm and grace of manner and mien to which man looks up with so much admiration and respect. 1 fail to see why it should be so. The young man who reaches Ins majority and assumes all the responsibility of iiolitical and social rights, sacrifices thereby not one jot of his ability or integrity of char acter, neglects no business interests, and swerves not aside from the 1 ath of duty which he has mai-Xed out for himself in life. And it is not reasonabe to suppose that women will devote more time to politics than men, or that she will neglect her family or other duties to do so: and to say that she will sacrifice some of her delicacy is to assert that she IS more susceptible to harmful inlluenees than man, which no one will dare assert. There are many positions in public life which, un- justly 1 think, are made subject to political preferment, which women could fill better than men. As matrons in our reformatory institutions. Ill our asylums, in our colleges and academies and schools, and in kin- dred institutions where she can mould her influence to the ocassion and tend to elevate the moral tone of such institutions, and to soften and refine the disposition and character of all those that are not hardened, she IS unexcelled. To illustrate ihe prejudice which has always existed against the advancement of women, a few years ago there was not a college in our country where a woman could acquire a higher edu- cation, and when the doors of the first college — Uberlin I believe — were opened to the co-education of the sexes a howl of indignation and horror went up from one end of the land to the other at the shocking spec- tacle of a young lady sitting side by side w-itli a young man trying to gain a liberal education. Today two hundred colleges open their doors to four thousand women who are engaged in friendly competition with men to acquire mielleclual light, and literal education. I dare say, and 1 affirm that the prejudice which exists to-day against woman's voting is just as senseless and just as unjust as that which existed a few years ago against her acquiring an education; and I believe in a few years to come, when women shall exert a wholesome influence in our affairs, as she certainly will, that you will not be able to find a man who will be willing to admit that he ever opposed it. (Applause) 1 have been asked i'' 1 would take my mother and my sisters and my wife, if I had one, to the polls. Most certainly I would, and I think if the average man would take his wife with him and would be governed by her advice, he would come nearer voting right than he ever did before in his life. Many of the best and ablest men of our own and other countries have acknowledged that whate^er degree of success they have attained in life they owe to the pure teachings and wise counsels of their mothers. Is it reasonable to suppose that the mother who can train tier son to a life ol usefulness and honor cannot be trusted to give expi-ession to her opinions through the ballot without sacrifice to her own di'licacy and without detriment to publK- affairs? 'f'tie idea is absunl and pre|iiislert)us. But 1 will not detain you. There are many reasons why 1 iliiiik women should vote. Among them, because hei' vote will not be a purchasable commodity; because she will not descend to the methods of thi' ward pol- itician; because I believe of she ever be elected to any con\t'ntioii or leg- islative body she will not consume the time by introducing resolutions which are nothing but bunccmibe; because her influenci' and politics will be on the side of law and order and peace, and on the side of morality and of the purity of the ballot, and that she will be for good govern- iiii'id. f<'or these and for many other reasons which miglit be given 1 am in favor of her enfranchisement and in favor of f.'i\liig the legis- lature the power to grant it in their discretion. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: We have lieard the argument of the gentli'- man from Deer l,odge. He said all that could be said and said it in tlie right way, and said it in th(> w-ay that I think every gentleman \\\\\ ad- mit demonstrates clearly the justice oi our position on this matd'c. We have heard the argniin'iit of Hie i;eiillemaii from SiUcr How. .iiiil lli.il CUiNSTlTUTlUNAL CU.WKMIUA 188'.) 3(59 was put 111 tlir saiiii' inaLiiirr. >ii\v, 1 tlunk iT \vr ilrcnlc lliis (lucslinn upon the loyif nt tlu' arguments as against sultragc and in lavor of •suflrago that we wiuild bi' conipi'lled to vote in lavor of universal sul- trage. But that is not the question. That has been decitled adversely by a vote of (yenty-six to thirty-two. A large minority of this eonven- lion without speaUnig uiion tlie eold blooded proposition, without any talk voted for giving women the same equal rights of suffrage tliat men liave. .Now, that is passed upon so far as the eominittee of llie whole is eoneerned, and I hope that this roininilte(i after secmg that a vote of a iargd minority in favoi' of this proposition will not say that Ilie people of Mon- tana cannot by their representatives and their legislature, legislate up- on this matter in years to eomi'. I believe that the small inajority of tills eoiiventioii cannot ni reason and justice do a thing of tliat kind. I beliexc that thi- peo|ile of .Montana have the right to say in their future legislation tliat if I lie senlinient shall grow in favor of it, that it shall be adopted, and tliat women shall have the same right of suffrage that men have. 'I'his is the question before us now, and I hope that you will not place a conslilulioiial prohibition in the instrument that we are now framing which will forever relegate this question to oblivion. The h^gislature is the place it belongs to. and if we voice the sentiment of tile people of Montana, and if they favor universal suffrage in the ratio by which it is shown here by this vote, this convention does, then profi- aiily next year or the following year they may wish to see tliis question adopted, and then i say the legislature of our State should have the right to voice that sentiment and to give women the right of suffrage. .Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: Although I am not in favor of woman suffrage 1 shall vote in favor of this amendment. 1 believe we have loo many ironclad enactments m this constitution already that pre- clude the possibility of change. 1 belRne that this being a progressive nation and Alontana particularly so, that w'e should lay ourselves open to the evolution of lime, and that the fewer ironclad resolutions that we introduce in tins constitution on this question the better. As I said. I am not in favor of woman suffrage. The arguments that have been ad- vanced by several parties here in favor of woman suffrage, although they have not convinced me, have placed the matter before me in many new lights. But I know there are arguments and objections that can be brought up on the other side that are fully as convincing. But I am in favor of leaving this whole matter with the future legislature of Mon- tana to use their judgment and obey the will of the sovereign people of Montana. Mr. Joy of Park: I would like to ask if another aineudment is in order. The Chairman: \es, sir. iMr. Joy of l^ark sent up an amendment wihich tlie Clerk read as fol- lows: xVmendment to Section 2. i'he legislature may in its discretion pro- vide that the question of woman suffrage may be submitted to a vote of the people of .Montana not oftener than once in four years and if a inajority of the votes of the State sliall favor such question then eciual suffrage shall be extended to women. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bickford of .Missoula: That is a right whicli the State of Montana will have. It is a right that they would have al any time, and I know of no reason why a proposition of tliis kind should he presented to this convention at this time, unless it be for the purpose of delay or beg- ging the question. 1 say, sir, in view- of all the arguments that havi> been advanced on llie proposition, and the lack of arguments on the other side, that the amendment should prevail. -Mr. .Maginni.s of Lewis t*t Clarke: ] had not llioiighl tn speak upon this subject, but the taunt of my friend from Missoula that all the argu- ment has been made on one side and none on the other, has induced me to make some apology for the gentlemen who vole against the prop- osition. I take no issue with the gentlemen who have eulogized thi- in- telligence and the virtue of women. J fully agree with the gentlemen who said they possessed three fourths of the virtues and more than half the intelligence of the country: I would even increase Ihe ratio. Hut 1 cannot si>e that any argument that has yet been made goes to tlie foundation of this question. After all said and done the primary ide- ment behind all government is force. Why do the majority rule? Let us 370 PHUCEKUl.NGiS A.NU UKBATES ciiiisiilrr lor a innmcnl llic iiliilnsnpliy di' jiovcriimeiit ami llir I'fason of Ihuigs. Human sorioty i.s in> inipt'i'lei-l Ihat tlie rule of lorccs slill pre- vails and will iMcvail as long as man in his unrcgMioratcd nature oc- cupies this planet. And it is because two men are more powerlul and can put down one man, and because lliree men are more pnweitul and can put down two men, that the rit;hl of Ihe majority upon wlucli governments are founded is now being- recognized by mankind. The world lias simply made an advance, .Mr. Chairman, in one particular. Instead cf testing tlie relative strength nf numerical bodies of men pitted against each other on the battle field, they do it at the ballot bo.x; and as the experience and history of the world has taught that tlie majority can and do and will enforce their views upon the minority, and majority have both wisely concluded not to fight but to count — not to meet each other on the field of battle, but to meet each other at the ballot box. recognizing alter all that ttie majority must rule. Upon this fundamental [trmciple the American government is founded. The conditions of her nature, the limitations of her sex, forever preclude woman from biMiig called upon to enforce the decrees of government. It is admitted even by the gentlemen who favor female suffi-age that it is not a natural right, that it is a political privilege bestowed by governments upon its citizens in such manner as shall best tend to |H-eserve and perpetuate and main- tain that government against all the ])erils that threaten human govern- men. l>'irst it was exercised by the rich only. II was claimed that the rights of property in a State entitleii a man to direct the di'stines of that State. That was gradually extended. The qualifications in all property were being made smaller and smaller all the time. .\nd finally manhood suffrage was based on whatV It was based upon this iirimuple. that so long as a man is liable to be called up(in by the Sheriff, by the Con- stable or officer of Law, or in the last grand arbitrament of war by the nation itself, to allign himself in line of battle in order to enforce the de- crees of that nation, that h(^ should be entitled to suffrage. It was the proposition that the poor man's life being as sacred, being. as much to him — for what is greater to any man than his own life — as the rich mans property was to him. that he should be made his equal at the ballot box in order to make the laws which he might be called upon tf imperil that life to enforce. As I have said, the other sex with all their virtues are forever precluded from coming into those conditions. Suppose we had a State with a majority of female voters, as Massachu- setts has today. Suppose that they unanimously should enact a line of law which the minority, the other sex, were called upon to enforce, what sort of a government would you have, or on what sort of foundation would it be based? It is upon this ground that we must maintain the govern- ment as it is unless it is going to perish. Why. one of my friends talked about the enfranchisement of the negro during the war — the illiterate negro of the south. From the very moment that the uniform of the United States was put upon the black man and the musket placed in his hands to defend the country, it became evident that he had to become enfranchised. That is what gave the ballot to the negro of the south, that placing in his hands the arms of this government and arraying him in defense of your flag. .\"o man can have a profounder regard for women ttian I have: b.:t I undertake to say in this informal way. without having thouulit of this subject —piid perhaps T ought not to he so presumplumw as to give my unformed thoughts to so wise a convention — but I uikI'M-- t.akf to say that woman has h(>r own great sphere in this world. Stie is the regenerator of humanity. It is hers to perpetuate. She is the I'diica- tor. the preparer in the school room, in the home and everywhere: and in every station she ennobles and adorns man. Man, on the other hand, has his own proper sphere. It is his to eonquer the savage world, to subdue the elements, to build, to conquer, to impress his power upon the material forces of nature, and to ccmibat with all the elements of the world. They are as distinct in their splieres as are the heavens and the earth, and one is as exalted and as ennobled as the other. They were made so by the .Mmighty Ruler who made this universe, and I do not believe that any body of men can ever by any laws overturn the disposi- lion of the Creator. Therefore, it is in no ungenerous and in mi unchival- ric spirit that I oppose this measure. I stand not upon lliose petty oh- .iCPtiiins Ihat have bi'en brought against female suffrage. I heliexe with tile gentleman from Sil\e:- Mow thai women, if it was thi-ir ritilil. would CO.NSTITUTIU.NAL CU.WKM'IU.N 1«89 371 liiimblc III a L'l'ftaiu suuse tlic ballot. \\ ln'lliiu- uu Uii' iillirr hand ijai'lici- |)ali(>n 111 politics wouiil ilo as iiuu-li tor licr I very mucli douljt. 1 Iviiow silt' IS tile salt ol till' I'arlli. liul 1 Iviiow also that like ttiat iJure and trystal salt slic would perhaps he (•oiitainiiialed and regeucraled hy inixiiig with the things wliieh il was intended she should preserve. L|)Oii these grounds the \ast niajonty of mankiml have based these govern- ments and have iiiaintained and periJi'tuated the difference betw-een tin; se.xes. There is no man that stands abreast with ine in giving to women ali equal chances in the career of life — of taking away from tier all the shackles that have been put upon her — of opening in science and art and poetry, and in everything, even in the lighter employments of govern- ment all tlie avenues which can be opened for her. I do not want to make woiiKMi, their lives, and their future di'ijeiideiit solely upon the will, the tenderness, or the caprice of man. 1 know that under the old conditions under which we have always lived, that the women liave filled tlii' greatest places in the world, in chanlalde institutions in our own country today they stand al tlie head of institutions which take care of more property and administer more affairs than even a State. There are insti- tutions in this country with women at the head of them, that own more property than is assessed in .Montana and administer more affairs than any government that we shall frame here to administer. It is not then be- cause 1 do not understand her capacity; il it not because 1 underrate her intelligence; il is not because I have not a high appreciation of the innate virtue and character of the sex that saved us all that 1 take this position. but 1 take it that in this matter of governmenl she is out of place, that government is — 1 will go back again and say, is founded upon force, and man is the force that must perpetuate and preserve it and hold it if it is to be preserved; and that they should do. not for their own sake, but lor the sake of the women who look to them to perform that part in the economy of nature and of government. But, my friends, I recognize also that if the women of this country wanted the franchise, tliey would liave It 110 matter who stood in the way. Right or wrong, wise or unwise, we would give it to them. But they do not. An Knglish statesman said that a few grasshoppers in a fence corner make more noise than all the noble herds of British cattle browsing beneath the oaks, and one of our owii poets said that the "Sballows murmur when the deeps are dumb.' and 1 undertake to say that if this question should be left as I propose it shall be left — or as 1 think it should be left, to the vote of the women of this Territory, it will be voted down today — and we have no right to fiuce upon them that which they do not want. Applause In the State of Massachusetts women can vote at all school elections, \\hile the gentle- men were speaking 1 took from some statistics here some facts which I shall quote. In that State there are i42.til6 male voters and 486,300 female voters eligible under that clause of the laws of Massachusetts. Of these 111 all the times since that law was passed only 4,219 women registered, and only 1,911 voted applause with all the clamor of all the advocates of this matter in the state of .Massachusetts where it is most widely and most clamorously advocated. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Does it say what kind of women they were '! -Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clai'ke: I r .Now. we propose to come in here and profit by Ihe lessons of the past, by the hard austere teachings of the past, by the practices and the teachings of the pagan world. I hope that all our barbarous practices and traditions are fas! giving place to a belter stale of civiliation. By the gracious dispensalion n| Hod. woman has been made Ihe helijinate and Ihe complement of man. and I [iropose to "xtend to her the benefits and blessings of that Being whose advent into this world was heralded by the !\lagi of Ihe East by the Star of Bethlehem which guided Iheiii lo Ihe place where Ihe Savior re|(osei| in Ihe manger. 1 propose and i will do it — [ will stand by in defense of the right of women lo every privilege which I enjoy under Ihe constilulion which she wants and asks for, and I will nol withhold one pot or lille from hi'r. I have a wife: 1 had a molher: 1 have sisters: and lliere is not one of them who is nol as thoroughly prepared -as well qualified to exercise all the functions of slate, and heller, than I am. in- telleclually, morally and as well physically. 1 say here Ihal I will stand by that principle which is sought lo be incorporated into Ihe conslilu tion, or rather, reserved by Ihe conslilulion to he extended |o llii' peojije of lliis Territory lo extend the free and uni\ersal right id suffrage to Ihe women of Ibis land wherever they shall see fil to enjoy il. I know II ina\ be iiiipopnlai' in some districts, but I am nol a supplicani lor CU.NSTli'LTlU.NAL CD.W E.MIU.N lS«y 373 lioijuUii- lavor. 1 caino here to iniprrss my dwii thoughts and views upon tins coiiviMition. If iny L'oii.stitui'iUs like il, il is well, aiul if they clout. 1 don't eai'e. I did not ask their sul lr:i.i;es; Ihey sent me liere lor belli'i- or tor worse, as the fellow said— it may be for worse or it may be foe lietter — but 1 liave enuiieiated my \ lews updii tins ipiestion and I will siand by them, and 1 tinish as 1 begun by asserting that 1 lieheve in extending the nglit of suffrage to the women of the land where\cr and whenever they want it. Mr. (jourtney, ol Mlver How: i did iml intend lo make any remarks npiin this llooi- but I had a deep feeling or eonvietioii as lo my posilinii on tins question, and 1 was exeeedmgly proud when Major Magimus got up and took the side of tlie aiie''li<"i whieli lie did. I liave oflmi times lieard of .Major .Magmnis' ability to make a speech, but I avow right here and on this oeeasion that I am now thoroughly convmeed of his powers and foree of eloquence. A gentleman got up a few moments ago and said that all the arguments was on his side. I can return the taunt now, sir. and say with every reason that for ai'gunients upon which to base a piisilion on this question, i think, sir, that we have the better side. .Now, with all Ihe eulogies that have bee'n offered upon women in these speeches 1 heartily concur. I believe they possess all the virtues and all the intelligence the gentlemen have claimed for thein. 1 believe they, exert an inlluence on the world that is for good. I believe the great men of Ihe world have attributed to their mothers the foundations from which they imbibed their greatness. Hut, sir, 1 take my position from this slandpomt. i look around the world today and I find that here in tliis country women occupy a position equal to I hat occupied by them in any country in the world. 1 don't know that the men of this country are im- posing' upon the women. If it should lie indicated to me that the men were imposing upon the women of this generation, my sympathies would go with the women; but, if I understand tiie way tilings are being run, it does seem to me that if anyone has the better of it, it is certainly Ihe vvonien. 1 don't know what privileges a man can enjoy in this country that is not extended to women save that of suffrage, and I don't know that that would make women any belter. If that conviction could be r(-moved by any of the arguments that have been adduced here in favor ol woman suffrage, possibly I would not occupy that position just now: liut I am frank to say witli all due respect to the gentlemen on the other side thai there was very little solid argument adiluced by them. .Now, sirs, 1 say to you that 1 have a deep conviction upon this question. I shall certainly vote against the proposition — not, I do not think, Ihrough any antipatliy for women but just simply because I think that the women of (lui- country are transcendent ovei' those of any other country, and that they are attaining their position by the liberal condilions under whicfi they live, and by the manner in which our country is treating them. .\nd if It could be proved to me beyond peradventure that women should occupy a higher sphere by reason of suffrage, then I wnuid simply go over to the other side. But speaking, as I sincerely dn. I believe that women have the best of the question as it is, and I am thoroughly satis- fied that I am not occupying an ungallant position when I say that I am witling to let tliein have the better of Ihe question, and I am not willing to impose upon them the responsibilities of suffrage. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I do not wish to enter into any discussion of the question of female suffrage,- as that is not the question now before the convention, but simply to make a few observations as pertaining to the subject of the amendment upon which we are now acting. II has been said that women do not care to have the right of suffrage. .Now. this" may be true. It may be that they lack the progress made in this movement for the last fifty years, as stated by the gentleman from Mis- soula. It may be owing to this fact, but we have no means of kiinwiiig what the wishes of the women are on this subject, and until we endow them Willi the privilege of suffrage so that they may make their views heard substantially, we never will know what are the wishes of the women of this Territory. I am m tavor of giving to women e\-erything that they want, upon the principle that I have the utmost confidence in their intelligence and their ability to decide what shall properly belong to them as citizens of the State, and upon this proposition I am in favor ov leaving open the way in this constitution wlhereby, if it b(> demanded in the future, or if the women come forward in the future, although Ihey 374 PRUCKKl)IA(iS AM) DEBATES iiiay not have I hi' priMli'j;i' of \olin;:, llii'y may find some way of inakiiif; tlii'ic mfluoncp fiMI, and demand that llic iikIiI (d' suffrage shall be extend- ed to Iheni. i helU'Ne in niaknig- llie way (iiien, and not lieilt-'nit; around lliem the inipossibdity of ever ol)tanHng lliese riglits if they should so desire them. Aow, it is said that women are so constituted physieally. and the cares of home and the duties of society are such that it dis- qualifies them from exercising this right of suffrage. i\ow, if this be the case, I am willing to leave it to the ladies themselves to judge upon this matter. It is said the women may not want to vote. We have tliousantis of men in Montana today who do not want to vote unless they can get three dollars apiece for their vote, and I venture to saj' that if you extend the right of suffrage to women that you will never find them going up lo the polls and selling their votes. It is also said that women by their association with men in the performance of his right of suffrage at the ballot box may become contaminated. I say that the position of the women today is higher and nobler than it ever has been. and that it is still advancing: that we lia\e given them everything except this right of suffrage: and 1 have this confidence in them, thai in conse- quence of tlieir commingling with men. in the affairs of the State and exercising the right of suffrage instead of their being contaminated by that influence, on the other liand. they will elevate and bring men grad- ually, ii it is possible lo do it, lo their high level. Hence, 1 say that while it may not be expedient to adopt this plank in the constitution today, 1 say that it is impracticable to submit it to the voters of this Territory in connection with the constitution, because if this is any evidence of the feelmg today upon the subject in the Terriitory, it will inevitably be voted down, and then w-e will have to face the impossibility of its ever being brought up again except by a constitutional amendment. 1 can see no objection to the clause that has been prop(Jsed by the gentleman from Missoula to leave a way open so I hat if in the future the women of Mon- tana desire to exercise the right of suffrage that that pri\ilege shall not be withheld from them. (Applausel Mr. Bickford, of MLssoula: I desire to engage the attention of the convention for just one moment in regard to this subject, and commenc- ing, 1 will say that "Peace hath its victories no less renowned than wtir." 1 deny the proposition advanced by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (bounty that the right of suffrage originates with mankind because they have power to enforce their dictates by the arbitrament of war. I say that force has nothing to do with suffrage whatever. If the argument of the gentleman should be followed to its final conclusion, the only result we can arrive at is that John Ijawrence Sullivan is the only man in the United Slates who is competent to vote at the present time. Applause 'J he arbitrament of war is not the criterion. I say that according to the argument of the gentleman advanced here upon this floor that the right ot suffrage should be granted to the people of this counti'y by the cri- terion of intelligence, by the criterion of honesty of men and love of counlry, liy all those crilerions by which we judge of the fealty of a man towards the country which we all love. I say that the physical force of man has nothing to do with it. It is their ability to choose between the right and the wrong. So far as the women of this country are conci-rned, when it comes lo a question of war, 1 want to say that if I he women had their voice in the affairs of this nation in 1859 and I8(i0 that llie Civil war would never have taken place: thai t'"'ir sense of justice, thai their sense of right, that their wisdom would have been such thai the wai' would have been avoided: and although I was so young at that time as not to be able to engtage in the struggle, I say that in view of the light of subse- fiuenl events that if the women ot thai day had had thi'ir \oice in the elections of the counlry, that their calm juriginenls would have prevailed o\er the passions of men, 1 say, sir, that when you take I he arbitrament of war, the power to enforce tiie dictates of politics or Ihe mandates of a counlry, as the criterion by which you are to be guided in the liestowal of this I'ight of suffrage, that you take a false position: thai tlnn-e is absolutely nothing in it, because then you go to the argument of jihysical torce and not of mental superiority, II is a matter of prid(> witli the people of the United States that within their limits, within the limits of this counlry, women occujoy a higher and nobler and a belter si)here than they do anywhere else. We point lo it with iiride because it is an evidence (d' natural stream to beneficial uses shall never lie denied. I'riorily of ap- propriation shall give th(> better right as between those using (he water. Section o. .'Ml persons and corporations shall have the right of way across public, [irivatc and corporate lands for (he constiniction of ditches, canals and flumes for the purpose of conveying water for domestic pur- poses, for the irrigation of agricultural laiids, and for miiung and niann- facturing purposes and for firainage uiioii iiayment of just compensalion. Section 'i. The (ieiieral .Yssenibly shall provide by law thai the Board of County Cominissioners in their respective couidies shall have power, when apidicalion is made by Ihein by eilher jiaiiy interested, lo eslahlisli CONSTITUTIO.NAI. CO.NVENTIUlN 1889 377 ri'asoiuilili' iiKixmiuni I'ali',-. in tir i-tiargpi:l lor thi' usi^ ol' watiM'. whollier liirnislied tiy indiviiluals nr coi'pdrations. The President:' If there he no (il)jee(inii tlic i'e|i(irl ot llie Ccmiinitlee oil Iri'igalioii will he reeeived and rcfeiTi'd tn the committee on printing witli instriietions to he printed. Mr. J. K. I'oole, of Lewis & Ciaike: The Cliairman of the Judiciary Committee is unavoidably ahseni this mornin)< and retiu(>sted me to pre- sent the following report. The President: The rcjinrt ni thi' Chairman nf ttic .ludiciary Com- mittee will he read. The Clerk read as follows: .Mr. President: \our Commillei' on Judiciary to whom was referred back Proposition .No. 21, .\rlicU> on Judicial Departments, to report in proper form certain amendnifiils lo the same which had been adopted in convention, herewith report back said proposition with the accompan\- iijg amendments, which thi'v recommend be adopted as [lart of said prop- osition. Some of the amendments arlopted to some of the seclions make them confliclmg or al IcasI uncei'tiiin, so that it. has been difficult to de- termine in such mslances what Uie intention of Ihi- convention was in adopting such amendmeiils: but, so far as they could, your Committee have endeavored to e.xpress what seemed to be desired and inli'iided by the convention. The references to sections and lines are to the printed copies of the proposition. .Ml of which is submit led; I Signed W. W . I)l.\().\, Chairman. Amend section 1 by inserting "a" after the word "as" in line 1. Amend section 8 so as to read as follows: Sec. 8. There shall he elected at the first general election provided for by this constitution, one Cliief Juslice and two Associate .Justices of the Supreme Court. At said first election the said Chief Justici' shall bi' elected to hold bis r)tfice until the general I'leclion m thi^ year 1802 and one of the .Vssociate Justic(!s to liold his offiec until the general election in the year 1891, and the other Associate Justice to hold his office until the general election in tlic year 18915. and each shall fiold until his successor is elected and qualified. The terms of office of said Justices and whieli one shall be Chief Justice shall at the first and all subsequent elections be designated by ballot. .-\lter said first election one Chief Justice or one Associate Justice shall be elected at the general election every two years, commencing in the year 1892 and if the Legislative .\ssembly shall increase the number of Justices to five, the first term of office of such additional Justices shall be fixed by law in such manner that at least one of the five Justices shall be elected every two years. The Chief Justice shall [preside at all ses- sions of the Supreme Court and in case of his absence the .\ssociate Jus- tice having the shortest term to serve shall preside in his stead. Amend section 11 by striking out the word "or" before the word "pos- session" in line 2 and inserting instead the word "of" and by adding "s" to the word "action" in line 13 and by inserting the word "held" alter the w-oid "person" in line 18. Amend section 13 so as to read as follows: Sec. 13. Until otherwise provided by law the Judicial Districts of the stale shall be constituted as follows: 1-irst Disti'ict. Lewis i*t Clarke County: Second District. Silver Bow County; Third District. Deer Lodge County: Fourtli District, .Missoula County: Kiith District, Beaverhead, Jefferson and .Aladison Counties: Sixth District, Gallatin, Park and Meagher Counties: Seventh District. Yellow- stone. Custer and Dawson Counties; Eighth District, Choteau, Cascade and Jr'ergus Counties. Amend section 18 by striking out the words "other County officers" in line 3 and inserting instead the words "the District Judge," and also by striking out the word "Di-;lrict ui line 3 and inserting instead the word "said." Amend section 19 so as to read as follows: Sec. 19. There shall be elected at the general election m each county of the state, one County Attorney, whose qualificalions shall be the same as are required for a Judge of the District Court, except that he must be over twenty-one, but need not be twenty-five years of age. and whose term of (dfice shall be two years, except that the County .\ttorneys first elected shall hold their offices until the general election in the year 1892. and until their succes- sors are elected and qualified. He shall have a salary to be fixed by law. o78 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES oiii'hair ol' wliicli shall bo paid by the stale and tlic oUn'i- lialf by the cnunly lor which he is elected, and he shall perioral such duties as may be required by law. Amend section liO by striking out the word "as" in liin' 't. Amend l^ection '/I by striking out the letters "es" at the end ot the word "process- es" in line 1. Amend section 29, so as. to read as follows: Sec. 29. 'I'lic Justices ot the Supreme Court and tlie Judges of the District Courts shall each be paid quarterly by the state, a salary which shall not be increased or diminished duriiii; the terms for which they shall have been respectively elected, tinlil otherwise pro^•ld'>cl by law the salary of the Justices of the Supreme Court shall be four thousand dollai's per annum each, and the salary of the judges of the District Courts shall be Ihree thousand, live hundred dollars per annum each. Amend Section 30 by inserting in line 2 after the word "fee" the words ".Allowance. Mileage. " Amend section 36 by striking out the word "cause" in line 1, and inserting instead the words "civil action." Also by inserting after the word "bar" in line 2 the words "of the state." Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I move you. sir. Iliat (he report of the committee be recei\ed and adopted and that the bill as adopted by the Judiciary Committee be read at lenglh. Hie iMiles suspended and the bill placed ui)on its final- passage. Motion was seconded. 't'he Chair put the question in the said motion of Hie gentli'iiiaii from Missoula (.Mr. Hickford and a vole being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The Clerk will read the amendments. The conven- tion will first pass upon the amendments that are offered by llie Judiciary Committee. Then if any other amendments are offeri'd they will be re- ceiAed. The Clerk read as follows: Amend section one by inserting "a" after the word "as" in line one. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis i\: Clarke: I move Ihe adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair init the question on Hie said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (.Mr. J. K. Tooli" anil a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The (jlerk read as follows: .Amend section 8 so as In read as follows: Sec. 8. There shall be elected at the first general election provided for by this constitution, one Chief Justice and two Associate Justices of the Supreme Court. At said first election Ihe said Chief Justice shall hi' elected to hold his office until Ihe general election in the year 1892 and one of the Associate Justices to hold his office until Ihe genei'al election in the year I89i. and Ihe olher .Associate Justice to hold his (dfice until the general election in the year I89(). and each shall hold until his suc- cessor is elected and qualified. The terms of office of said Justices and which one shall be Chief Justice shall al the first and all siibseqiienl elections be designated by ballot. .Aflei' said first election one Chiet .Justice or one .Associate Justice shall be elected at Hie general eli'clino e\ery two years commencing in the year 1892 anri if the Legislalne .\ssem- bly shall increase the number id' Justices to fi\(>. the first teiin of office o! such additional Justices shall he fixed by law in such manner Ihal al least one of the fne Justices shall be elecled every two years. The Clili'l Justice shall preside at all sessions of the Supreme Court and iii ra^e cit his absence the Associate Justice having the shortest teiin In sci-m' shall preside in his stead. Mr. J. K. 'I'oole. of Lewis \ Clarki': 1 iiio\e the adoplmn of Hie aiueml- iiient to section 8. Tile motion was secondi'd. The Chair iiut the question in ttie said motion of the gentleman from Lewis iS; Clarke (.Mr. 'I'ooje and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend seelmn II by striking out the word "or" helore tiie word "possession" in line 2 and iiiserliiig instead the word "of", and by adding "s" to the word "action" in line 13. and by insert- ing Hie word "held' allei- (lie word •'iiersdn' ill line 18. CO^!5TrrUT10.N.\L, CONVENTION 1889 379 Ml-. ,1. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: 1 move the lirst amendment to the section lie adopted by strikinj; out the word "or'" before the word ■■possession " m line two and inserting instead the word "of." The motion was seconded. The (Jliair put the cpiestion on the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis (S; (Maike Mr. fonie and a vole being taken the same was declared earned. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move that the second amend- meat be adopted by adding; tlie letter ■"s" to the word '■action" in line 13. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from J.ewis iV; Clarke ,.\lr. Toole and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. .Mr. .1. iv. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I also move the adoption of the third amendment by inserting the word ■'held' after the word "person" in line 18. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of tlie gentleman from Lewis iV: Clarke .Mr. I'eole and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: What is the pleasure of the Convention concerning the section now adopted. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move the adoption of the section as amended. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer uMr. Burleigh and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend section 13 so as to read as follows: Sec. 13. Lntil otherwise provided by law the .Judicial Dis'ricls of the state shall be constituted as follows: l-'irst District. Lewis & Clarke County: Second District. Silver Bow County: Third District, Deer Lodge County: Fourth District. Missoula County: Fifth District. Beaver- iii'ad, Jefferson and Madison Counties: Si.xth District, Gallatin, Park and Meagher Counties; Seventh District, Yellowstone, Custer and Dawson Counties; Eighth District, Choteau, Cascade and Fergus Counties. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of the amend- ment to section 13. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke ,Mr. Toole and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend section 18 by striking out the words "other county officers" m line 3 by inserting instead the words "the Liistrict Judge." and also by striking out the word "District" in line 3 and inserting instead the word "said." Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I move the atloption of the first amend- ment to section 18 to strike out the words "other county officers" in line :i and insert the words "the District Judge." The motion was seconded. The Chau- put the question on the said inotion of the gentleman from Missoula -Mr. Bickford and a vote being taken the same was d.^clared carried. The President: What is the pleasure of the convetion concerning this section as amended. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: 1 mn\e the adi>plion of the section as amended. T'he motion was seconded. ■J'he Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Missoula uMr. Bickford and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend section 19 so as to read as follows: Sec. 19. There shall be elected at the general election in each county of the state, one county Attorney, whose qualifications shall be the same as are required for a Judge of the District Court, except that he must be over twenty-one but need not be twenty-five years of age, and whose term of office" shall be two years, except that the County Attorneys first elected shall hold their offices until the general election in the year :j«0 I'HCJCKEOI.NGS AiNU DKBATKS 1892, anil inilil tlioir succpssors are I'lectoil and qualilicil Ho sliall havi- a salary (n bo lixod by law, ono-half of which shall bo paid by the Stato and the iillii'i' half by tho rounly for which ho is olectcd. and ho shall lioflorrii 1 381 Till' i;iiaii- put the question on llii> sanl inntuiii nl' llic gentleman Irnni Cascade i.Nlr. Collins ■ and a vole benij; laken llic same was declared carried. 'Ihe Cieck read as follows: Amend seclion :«i by slriKing out, llie word "cause" in line 1 and inserting instead the words "civil action.' Mr. Burleigli. ol Custer: I mo\c llie adoplion ot the amendment. I'he mot:on was seconded, I'he Chair put the qucslion on the s;nd nmlioii cd' the genllrnian trom Custer i-\lr. Hurleigh and a \olr liciiit; lakiMi tlir same was declai'cd carried. The Ch'ck read as follows: Also hy inserting after the won! "bar" in line L' the words "ot the state." Mr. .J. K. Toole, of Lewis i\: Clarke: I iiioxc Ihe adoption of the amendmenl. The motion was secontled. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from l-ewis \ Clarke .Mr. Toole and a \ote being taken the same was declared carried. The I'ri'sirleiil: That comprises all the amendments offered by the Judiciary Committee. .Mr. Hickards. of Silver Bow: I move th(> section be adopted as amended. The motion was seconded The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. Hickards and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. .Mr. Hurleigh. of Cusler: I now nio\c llie adoption of Proposition No. 21. as amended, as a part of the constitulion of tlii> state of Montana. The motion was seconded The President: It is moved and secomled that, proposiiion Xo. 21 be now adopted as a part of the consljtution of the state of Montana. Tlie aves and navs will be entered on Ihe Journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .\yes: Aiken, Bickford. Breen. Browne. Bui lard, Burleigh. Burns. .\. F.; Burns, A. J.: Burns, Edward: Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby. Chessman. Collins. Conrad, ('oopcr. Courtney. Craven. Ourfee. Oyer. Eaton, liammond. Hartman. Haskell. Hatch. Hershfield. Hickman. Hobson, Hogan. .loy. Joyes. Kanouse. Kennedy. Knippenberg, Knowles. Kohrs. Louil. Mia- gimiis, ".Marrion. .Marshall. Mayger, McAdow, .Mitchell, Muth, Ramsdeil, Keek. Robinson. Rotwitt. Hickards. Sargeant, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. K.: Toole. J. R.: Warren. Watson. Whitehill. Winston, Witter. Mr. President — (il. -Nays: .None. .\bsent: Brazleton. Oixon. (Iiliette. Middlelon. Field, (ioddard, M\ers, Buford. (iaylord. (iraves. (iibson. Ciice. Parberry. Webster — li. The President: The motion to ladopt is carried, and Pro|iositioii .No. 21 becomes a part of the constitution of the state of Montana. The Chair is in receipt of a report of Ihe Committee on Finances of the State. It IS very lengthy and unless Ihei'i^ is a desire to have it read it will be referred to the printing comniillee to be pi'interl. If is so referreil. The report of the Committee on Finances winch was referred to Hie Committee on Printing was as follows: ARTICLE Revenue and Taxation. Section I. The necessary revenue for Ihe supjiorl and maintenance of the state shall be provided by the Legislative Assembly which shall levy a uniform rate of assessment and taxation, and shall prescribe such regulations as shall secure a just valuation for taxation of all property, except that specially provided for in this article. The Legislative As sembly may also impose a license tax. both upon persons and upon cor- porations doing business in the state. Sec. 2. The property of the United States, the state, counties, cities, town.*, school districts, municipal corporations and public libraries shall be exempt from taxation: and such other property as may be used ex- clusively for agricultural and horticultural societies, for educational purpose's, actual places for religious worship, places of burial not used :>«a PHOCEJiDl.XGS AM) DKHATES 01 lioltl lor private or rorporati' profit, ami iiistitutiiins oT purely public' iliarjty may be exempt Irmn taxation. I he Legislative Assembly may, in Its diseretion, exempt Irom taxation other property in addition to that herein specified, but all exemptions shall only be by genei'al law. Sec. 3. All mines and mining claims, both placer and rock in place, containing or bearing gold, silver, copper, lead, coal or other valuable mineral deposits, alter |)atenl ■■•hall have been issued therelor by the I lilted States, shall be taxed at the price paid the United States therefor, unless the surface gi-ound, or some part thereof, of such mine or claim, is used for other than nnniiig purposes and has a separate and indepen- dent value for such other purposes, in which case said surface ground or any part thereof, so used for other than mining purposes, shall be tiaxed at its value for such other |)urposes, as provided by law; and all machin- ery used m mining, and all property and surface improvements upon or appurtenant I" mines and mining claims which have a value separate and mdi'ijendent of such mines or mining claims, and the annual net proceeds of ail mines and mining claims shall be taxed as provided by law. Sec. 4. The Legislative Assembly shall not levy taxes upon the in- habitants or property in any county, city, town or municipal corporation for county, tovwi or municipal purposes but it may by law invest in the corporate authorities thereof powers to assess and collect taxes for such purposes. Sec. 5. Taxes lor city, town and school purposes may be levied on all subjects and objects of taxation, but the assessed valuation of any property shall not exceed the valuation of the same property for state and county purposes. Sec. 6. No county, city, town or other municipal corporation, the inhabitants thereof nor the property therein, shall be released or dis- chiargd from their or its proportionate share of stale taxes. Sec. 7. The power to tax corporations or corporate pniperty shall never be relinquished or suspended, and all corporations in this state or doing business tlnnein shall be subject to taxation for state, county, school, municipal and other purposes, on real and personal property owned or used by them and not by this constitution exempted from taxation. Sec. 8. Private property shall not be taken or sold for tlie corporate debts of municipal corporations. Sec. 9. The rate of taxation of real and personal property for state purposes in any one year shall never exceed three (3) mills on each dollar of valuation: and whenever the taxable property in the state shall amount to one hundred million dollars ($100,000.0005 the rate shall not exceed two and one-half (2Yj) mills on each dollar of valuation: and whenever the taxable property in the state shall amount to three hundred million dollars i •f300,(KK).'000 the rate shall never thereafter exceed one (I mill on each dollar of valuation: unless a i)roposilion to increase such rate, specifying the rate proposed ami (he time during whicli the same shall be levied shall have been submiltc>d to ttie people at a general elec- tiiin. and shall have received a majority of all the votes cast for and against it al such election. Sec. 10. All taxes levied for state [lurposes sliatl lie paid into the state treasury, and no money shall be drawn from thi' treasury but in pursuance of sjiecific appropriations made by law. Sec. M. 'l^axes shall be levied ami collected by geneiMl laws and for public purposes only. They shall be uniform upon the same class of subjects withm the territorial limits of the autliority lexyiiig the lax. Sec. 12. No appropriations shall be made nor any expenditure aiitlior- i/ed by the Legislative Ass(Mnbl\. whereby the expentliture of the stale during any fiscal year shall exceed llo' totial lax llien provided for by law and applicable to such approiiriation or expenditure, unless tlie l^egisla- tive .\sseinbly making such appropriation shall provide for levying a sufficient tax, not exceeding the r'ates lalloweil in section nine {9i of this article, to pay such approiirialions or i>\pemlilure witliin sucli fiscal year. This provision sliall not apjily to ap|iroiirlalions or ex|)enditures to sup- press insurrection, defend the slate or assist in ttefending tlie llniteil States in time of war. .No approiniiation of iiublic moneys shall lie made for a longer leriii tliaii two vears. CONSTITLTIO.NAL COiNVKNllON 1889 3«3 Sec. 13. rile State Trea.surer shall kee)) a separate account of each liinii 111 his hands, and shall at tlie end ol each quarter of the fiscal year report to the (iovernor in writinK. under oath, the amount of all moneys m his hands, to tin' creilil of every such fund, and the place or places where the same is Icept or deposited, and the number and amount lit every warrant paid or redeemed hy him during the quarter. The immediali'ly published in at h^ast one newspaper printed at the seat of i;o\-ernnient, and otherwise as the Legis- lative .\ssembly may require. The Legislatixe .Assembly may provide by liiw further regulations for tlie safe-keeping and management of the public funds in the hands of the treasurer; but, notwithstanding any such regulation, the treasurer and tiis sureties shall, in all cases, be held responsible therefor. Sec. 1-5. The making of profit out of public moneys, or using the same for any purpose not authorized by law. by any public officer, shall be deemed a felony and shall be punished as provided by law; but part of such punishment shall be disqualification to hold public office for a period of not less than ten years. Sec. 15. The (iovernor. Secretary of State, State Treasurer. State Auditor and .\ttorney (ieneral sliall constitute a State Board of Equaliza- tion; and the board of county commissioners of each county shall con- stitute a county board of equalization. The duty of the state board of equalization shall be to ad.just and equalize the valuation of the taxable property among the several counties of the state. The duty of the county boards of equalization shall be to adjust and equalize the valuation of the taxable property within their respective counties. Each board shall also perform such other duties as may be prescribed by law. Sec. Hi. All property, except as in this section rirovided, shall be assessed in the county, city, town, township or school district in which it is situated, in the manner prescrilied by law. The franchise, roadway, roadbed, rails and rolling stock of all railroails operated in more than one county in this state shall be pssessed by the state board of equaliza- tion, and the same shall be apportioned to the counties, cities, towns, townships and school districts m which such railroads are located, in proportion to the number of miles of railway laid in such counties, cities, towns, townships and school districts. Sec. 17. The word property. ;>s used in this article is hereby declared U' include moneys, credits bond*, stocks, franchises and all matters and things real, personal and mixed capable of private ownership; but this shall not be construed so as to authorize a taxation of the stocks of any company or corporation when the property of such company or corpora- tion, represented by stocks, is within the state and has been taxed. Sec. 18. The Legislative .Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry out the r>rovisions of this article. Mr. Bickford of Missoula sent up report (d' the committee on printing. The (_;it»rk read as follows: ■'.Mr. President: Vour Committee on Printing etc. ha\e examined Proposition .\os. 14, 23 and 24 and find the same have been correctly printed. (Signe(| CO.XHAl). Chairman. .Mr. Bro'waie of Ghoteau sent up re]iiirt ol I he Committee on i'Aly, County and To'mi Organizations. The Clerk read as follows: .Mr. President: Your Committee on City, County ami Town Organiza- tions to whom was referred petition from citizens of Glasgow, Dawson County, protesting against a clause being inserted in the constitution fixing" a limit of three million dollars or more of assessable property for the creation of new counties, beg leave to report that we had under con- sideration the resolution introduced by Mr. (]onrad pertaining to this matter, and reported same without recommendation. fSigned DAVID G. BROWNE, Chairman. The President: If there be no objection this report will be placed on file and referred to committee of the whole. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis i*c Clarke: I am desirous of making a couple Of reports which, if in order, 1 should like to present now-. b«4 PRUCKKUIIS'US AND DEBATES The President: Tlie ri'ijort oi Itn' Chainnan of tin' (■(imiiultee on iniseellaneous provisions and sub.MHds wdl be read. The Clerk read as 1ollo\\is: .Mr. President: ^(iur commit tee on iniscellaneous suljjocls, to whom was referred a pelilmn of the eilizens of Deer Lodge County, relative to the Sunday law, respeei fully report that the same proposition has been previously acted upon atlversely by the cmniiiittee, who see no reason for mcorporating ttie subject in the constitution. We have sufficient faith in the people re|jr'esented in the ij'gislative Assembly to entrust to their care the establishment of order and justice, to the end that all citizens may equally enjoy the best results of good government, tiaving agreed to leave this matter in the hands of the people and their repre- sentatives, we recommend that the ijetitiou be laid on the table. (Signed 1.. H. HEHSHl'MELD, Ctiairiuan. The President : What is tlie pleasure of the convention concerning this report. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I mo\e the report be adopted. 'the motion was seconded. The Chair init the question on tlir- motion of the gentleman from Lewis tV: ICarke (Mr. Maginnisi ami a ^()te being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .Mr. President: Your committee on miscellaneous subjects etc„ to whom was referred proposition No. 25, by A. J. Burns, concerning the establishment of a mining bureau and the office of a commissioner ot mines, beg leave to report that in their opinion it would not be wise to incorporate into the constitution the matters suggested in said proposi- tion. We find that the laws now in existence amply cover the subject, and therefore recommend that proposition iVo. 25 be not adopted. (Signed L. H. HEKSHFIELI). Cliairman. -Mr. Witter, of liea\ rrlicad: 1 inoNe llie aduiitinn of llial report. The motion was seconded. , The Chair put tlie question on the said motion of the gentleman from Eea\erliead (Mr. Witter and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: .Vre tliere anv other reports of standing committees? .Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: Mr. l-'resident. I move you that the con- vention resolve itself into committee (d' the wliole for the further con- sideration of proposition A'o. 1-i, General l''Jle .\o. 12. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President called .Mr. Cooper t)f (iallatin to the Chair. I.N COMMITTEE 01<' THE WHOLE Mr. C'oo|)i'r id (Iallatin in the Chair. The Comiiiillec was called '.o order. The (;hairiiiaii: The Chair will state thai the (loiiiiiutlee concluded its labor.s last night while under consideration of Section 2. The sub- stitute offered by the genlleman from Missoula, .Mr. .Marrion, is now in order, to which there is an amendment pending offered by tlie gentle- man trom Jefferson; .Mr. Hreen. The question now is on the amend- ment o\' the gentleman from .Jelferson. I III' Cl(>rk will read tlie amendment. .Mr. :Marrion of Missoula: Will the Chair Iviiidly instruct the Clerk lo reaci the substitute first? The Cliairman: Ttie Clerk will read llie suljstitute. Till' Cli>rk read as follows: "Substitute for SiM'lion 2. Sec. -J. E\'ery male citizen of the lJiiite\' one state whicli are given to citizens of other states, that I do not think that would be conslitutiunal. It is different when it applies to foreigners, not coming from any particular state, but from a foreign country. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: 1 do not think the provision referred to ap|)lies to a case of this kind at all: that is, that they should guarantee the same rights to the citizens of this state that they enjoy in other states. That, I think, if you will look at it, applies to the term citizen; and in relalifiii to the other provision I do not think this a matter that will come in under that. 1 am very sure that that says that the citizens of the state shall have the same rights and immunities as the citizens of the other slates. A member: J'hat is what it says. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Then it doesn't apply, bei-avise these parties arc not citizens. .Mr. Stapleton of Silver Bow: 1 ttiink I am clearly right. The citi- zens of each State shall be entitled (o no more privileges and immunities than citizens m the several states. That is on page 14 of the Revised Stat- I'tes of the constitution of the L'nited States, it is not the one Judge l\nowles has spoken of at all. He speaks of the I'dli amendment, and I am not speaking of that at all. 1 think if my friend will look on page 14, Article 5, Section 2, he will become satisfied I am right. I am willing to submit this to every lawyer present on this floor, and it I am not right 1 shall not urge it. I am well satisfied, however, that I am right. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Ninv 1 would ask Mr. Stapleton — (read- ing) "The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of the citizens of the several states". Now, in Oregon, they have a law at present that those who have simply declared their inten- tions to become citizens are citizens of Oregon. Now, if they are en- titled to that privilege there, then when the citizen of Oregon comes here, who has simply declared his intention to become a eitizen. he can vote here, because he is a citizen nf Oregon: and it seems lliere are some fifteen stales that have the same privileges: and if they are citizens ot tlie State of Oregon or rij^lil Ici lix tlie qualifications df its voters, and tliere is no limitation excejil the fifteenth ameiiilment of the con- stitution which forbids any distinct imi mi account of race, cdlor or pre- Mous condition of servitude. Mr. Hartmau, of Gallatin: I think it would be a \ery unfortunate ste|i Jor this convention to take, to disfi'anchise the \oters who have been voters in the territory under lerritorial laws. In the first place it would be an act of injustice to them, lor this reason; all persons wlio iiave come here and taken out their naturalization papers have comi> here with the presumed knowledge that they would be entitled to vote uimn their filing their declaration of intention to become citizens. Hut. Iea\ ing out the question of (he injustice of depriving them (if ihe liglil whicli tliey have heretofore enjoyed, I believe it would be an act winch wnnld imperil the very adoption of this constitution itself, for every one of these men will be empowered to vote on the adoption or rejection o[ tins constitution, and State officers of the Slate election, and do you suppose they are going to the polls and cast their vote in favor ot a constitution which disfranchises them. If so, you are reckoning witlKnit your host, and 1 pretend to say tliat if we fail to pass Itiis pro\ iso clause, thai llie constitution ilsell will stand a fair show of being ri'ji'cted, Mr. .Maginiiis of 1-ewis iS: Clarke: I undertake to sa,\ Itial whether the constitution itself stands a lair sliow to be rejected it w r i|o tins tiling, it ought to be rejected, and 1 would feel like taking tlie stump in this territory and advocating its rejection from one end ot il to the other, if we should do an injustice of lliis kind. Tln^ men who came here and under our laws have been imesb^d with the franchise —the men who will meet you wlien you go back home, and w'lio will say "wk' \-oted to iiut you in tliat convention and now you ask us to vote for the adoption of this amendment which disfranchises us." It is right and proper to make a (lislinction. Wliy, we have a great example in the foiiiidalion and forinalmn ot tlie constitution <\\' the United States. Vou all know that no person except a native born citizen is eligible to the office of tlie J'residency, Imt the fathers id' tlie coimlry. recognizing the riglit of those who were' Uiere at Ihe liiiii'. who lieli)ed to tight tlie rr\ nhil lonary war and who helped to adopt Ihe I'onstilution, and who \oti'il foi' its adoption placed this proMsioii in it ".Nd person except a iialiii'.il lioni cilizeii CaNS'l'lTL 1 lOXAI. CO.WEMION 1S.SS) ;W!l or cilizrn oT lln' I uilrd Slali' al lln' liiiic nT llic adoption oT Uns rtin- slitiition shall lie I'li^nlilf lo the office of Presnleiit."' I am sure lliere is an exaniple i-'i-eat enough and illustrious enough for all of us to fol- low il. without the charge of inconsistency being urged as it has been urged by my friend from Deer Lodge. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I understand the policy of all republican governments has been to extend and not to restricl the suffrage- extend il in proper cases and never take it away where it has been given: and 1 think our action should be prospective and not retrospective. \\ here suffrage has been extended to any class in this territory 1 think u should remain there so far as those people to whom it has been ex- tended have the right to exercise it: t)ut prospectively, so far as the qualifications of voters in the future are concerned, we have a perfect right to fix those qualifications, and to place such restrictions upon that right as w'e think should be proper. That seems to me to lie the spirit of our institutions, and absolute justice as well. -Mr. Stapleton. of Silver Bow: 1 merely submitted a le.i^al proposi- tion to this convention, and 1 put it on legal grounds. 1 did not say it was right to disfranchise these people, but you must see at once the condition we put ourselves in. Now. when it comes to \oting upon this constitution there will be thousands of people in .Montana Territory who never have been voters who never have been possessed of the right of voting at all. Those people you say can vote for all tim(>: you say a man that has declared his intention, it makes no ilifference whether in .Montana Territory or anywhere else, if he happens to slep over thi' line into Mon- tana Territory the day before, then il never becomes necessary for him tfp become a full-fledged citizen: il never becomes necessary for liim to take out his final papers, hut foe all time he is a voter in .Montana Ter- ritory. .Now. .Mr. Chairman, the man who is so unfortunate as not to come until the day after, and who has declared his intention, he is shut out from Noting until the five years have expired and until he has be- come a full-fledged citizen. Then you must see that it becomes a ques- tion of when a man came to the Territory. Here are two men living side by side: one of them goes to the polls and votes simply because he came into the Territory the day before the adoption of the constitution: the other was so unfortunate as to come into the Territory the day after. So the qualification is dependent upon when a man came to the Territory, Now, 1 believe that we must make our election laws, whatever they may be. uniform. .Now. .\Ir. Chairman, if we have a right to say that a man who happens to be in Montana Territory at that day and who has declared his intention to become a citizen, shall vote, then we can go further and say we can except such and such states, and we can disfranchise for the lime being the citizens of other States, ^^■e can say for instance that a man that has lived in tlie State of Illinois before he came here, can vote. We can pick out the different states and say that a citizen of that state can vote when he has declared his intention. Now my friend has read from .McCrary on Eh'ctions. There is nothing in that that goes to con- trarlict anything that I have said. \\'e are making qualifications of citizen- ship that should be uniform. We make the qualification at the time the man happens to put his foot into Montana Territory. Now. Mr. (;;hair- man. I like the spirit that is evinced by some of these gentlemen. They say this constitution should be rejected, and they go further and say that if a majority of this convention are in favor of this provision, that so far as they are concerned they will go outside and wmU spend their tune and money and work against the adoption of this conslitution. Now, .Mr. (Chairman, if that is the spirit — i Interrupted . -Mr. .Maginms of Lewis & Clarke: I said I would feel like doing it. .Mr. Stapleton of Silver Bow: Well. 1 am very glad I misunderstood the gentleman and I apologize to him: because if ttiat is the spirit, and because if men cannot have this constitution to suit themselves, they are going on the outside to work against its adoption, then it appears lo me we had better quit, because then we would not be fit to enjoy the rights and privileges of statehood. .Now there are a cla.ss of citizens who have taken out their first papers as they are called, but who have never taken out their second papers: but if you pass this law you force them either not to vote or to become full-fledged citizens and to take out their papers. There are thousands of the people in the Territory today oyO PHOCEEDhNOy AM) IJEBATES lliaf arc ildiii^' lliat vcr\ Ilium, ami i'\ci-y Icriii nl' niuil Ihi-y arc called (111 to serve on jury duly and lliey laugli about il and sa\' llial tliey are not going to tal\e out their papers for the reason that I hey ilnnl want to assume jury duty. .Mr. Kainsdell of Missoula: II scciris lo me Ihal llie argument that lias liecn advanced by Itie gentleman wlio has just taken his seat would nullify the Chinese E.xclusion .Act. Thai was made dependent upon llic mere accident of coming into this counti-y on a ceilam day. .\iiy tUiinamaii who did not come in on a certain ilay was e.vcluded by tlie laws of this country, and I believe it will not he denied by any man in this convention that if the United Slates has the right lo exclude any (dass or sect, they have tile right by the same law or Hie same precedent to disfranchisi' anybody; for it is a Irulsin lliat the greater includes the less, ami accord- ing to tlie argument advani'cd here we would really nullify an act that has been incorporated m the (^onstitulion id' the L nited States. .\s re- gards the fairness of this act il sei'nis to me Ihal it cannot be classed in the category at all. We have been elected and sent to this constitutional convention by perhaps tliree or lour thousand men whom by our acts in fTiis convention we would disfranchise; in fact the whole history of coiistilutional conventions and coiuentions of a deliberate nature, ha\e been not to disfranchise men that wore in the country at the; lime of Itie passage of the act, but to grant tliem full and uniform rights with I hose people and those classes whose rights were unquestioned: and it seems to me as regards fairness and justice, the proposition is nid to be considered. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: There has been something said here in regard to those who have simply declared their intention to become citizens, that they will always remain so: that Ihey will never become full citizens id' the United States. The disposition in our time is to enact laws that will preclude fo:-eigiiers from holding real estate in the United States. The class of people that are organized into laboring or- ganizations are having their influence upon the legislatixc assemblies throughout the United States uimn this question. They are demanding tliat none but citizens of the United Stati'S shall hold its real estate. 1 believe that this is the law in Ihis Territory at this time. We will go into a State organization with that \a\\ iqion our statute book. Now if any alien who has simply declared his intention to become a citizen of the United States expects to transmit his little home or his properly or anything of that kind or his real estate to his heirs he has got to be- come "a citizen, and that fact alone is going to force every man who is in the Territory at this time who has simply dindared his iidenlion to become a citizen, to become a lull citizen of the United States; and 1 helie\e all of them will become full citizens of the United States. .\nd these citizens who have remained here in the I'erritory. helped build up its institutions, paid the taxes of the country, supported our schools, and who by virtue of the Organic Act of the Territory and the laws of the Territory, have simply been entitled to exercise the privilege of suffrage, that is simply a privilege, not a right, and 1 believe that at this time they should not be denied this privilege. 'J'hey came in here to vole upon the adoption or rejection of this constitution: they are part id the people. When we put into this Constitution of .Montana Terrilory. "We the people of Montana Territory adopt this constitution." why they are a part of tins people, and then the very minute they come in here to adopt the fundamental law, to exercise a greater right than tin' right of electing idficers alter the adoption of that law, why, shall we disfranchise them? Shall we say Itiat they are not entitli-d to vote atli'r that? I hope that this amendment will prevail. I hope il will be put into a littl • better language than it is so as not to slmw an apiiaienl \iM'bal ciinllKd. but II ought to be, in substance, ailopte take out his first papers m order (o exercise ami enjoy all the rights of a citizen with the exception of (ransferruig i-eal estate. Now there are quite a number of this element m iloutana who have no real estate and probably nevi'r will have. These peopli' have no object in becommg citizens ai all. there- !ore I think we should treat everybody alike. I'hose that are here the same as those that shall come. For that reason I certainly oppose the aniendmenl. I'he (juestion was called for. the Chan-man: The (luestion is, lo strike out the second subdivision of this section. Mr. Burli'ij;h of Custer: 1 have listened lo the arguments pro and con upon this proposition, and I must confess that some of the features of the amendment or substitute offered by the gentleman from Gallatin County J like and some I do not like. But here is a proposition that I do like, and as there may be someone here who has not read it re- cently. 1 will call the attenlion of the convention to it. anti then make a few remarks, and then sit down. It will be found in the compiled laws of the Territory on page 923. Section 1007 '"All male citizens of the United Stales above the age of twenty-one years, and all male persons of the same age, who shall have declared their intention of becoming citizens, and wtio under existing laws of the United States may ultimately become citizens thereof, shall be oeemed electors of this Territory and be entitled to vote for delegate to congress, and for territorial, district, county, precinct and municipal officers provided they shall have resided in the Territory six months and in the county where they may offer to vote thirty days next preceding the day of election." Now. sir. 1 believe that that is a wise pi-ovision: 1 believe it is a just proMsion; and 1 believe it is a provision that might safely be transmitted from kwv territorial stale of existence into that of a State. To require men to become full-fledged citizens before they can exercise the right of suf- frage here provided they were not here at the adoption of this consti- tution. IS going a little further than 1 am willing to go in fairness and in all justice in dealing with my fellow men. For instance you take a man in .Massachusetts who came from Kngland: he has been there perhaps six months: he sees an account of the wonderful natural deposits of gold, silver, lead and copper in Montana: he may have been there a year: he has taken out his first papers: he comes to this country and dis- covers that here is a place for him to invest his millions in developing the rich minerals of this country. Supposing he should come out here and invest considerable in property here, and he finally comes across this clause in the constitution which says that inasmuch as you have not been here five years and taken out your papers, you shall not have any voice or vote in the manner in which your property shall be iJis- posed of here or shall be taxed. Now 1 say that is not fair. It is not dealing justly with these men fo:' the reason that we have just extended to them an invitation to come out here. They look at the la\\-s of Mon- tana as they are today and say "we have all the privileges "we want under existing election laws", \\hen they get here they are met with a different proposition: and we say lo them "W by. we have changed our laws since then and you cannot exercise the rights of a citizen"'. It looks a good deal like the invitation of the spider to the fly to walk into its litMe parlor and get entrapped. I do not believe there is any danger to the free institutions of this country by allowing them to come in lieri' and .setlle down and become citizens immediately. Most men are not in- clined to violate the law. but to keep il: most men are not inclined to fear down the fabric of free government, but lo maintain it. That has always been the sentiment and Ihat feeling sei'ms to he ■■growin'j with our growth and strengthening with our strength." While as I said be- fore. I like some of the provisions of my friend's substitute, I am opposed to the whole of il if it is all classed together. If it can be senrraii'd and disintegrated, then I will vote for some part of it and against the rest. But it does seem lo me that the statute Ihat I have just read must commend itself to every man that is not a candidate. I wont vote for a proposition here that undertakes to ostracise men who come tfl this coun- try in good faith although they may have settled in Pennsylvania or South Carolina or Texas, and take a snap judgment on them. I do not believe bm PHUCKEI)I.\(;S AM) J)h;BATES 111 llii' doclriiir. II IS lint llii' syslciii lunlcr whicli Itiis i-niiiitry lias gniwu up Ironi a Imv colonn's to a ijupulatioii ol sixty iiiillinns of iiccipli; who i-aii now boast of a goverumoiit tlial would dwarf a do/cii ciiipuvs like that of Mafcdonia, which sent out Us conquprors In Itic world willi a great deal of inttMligcnco. I helievc in that system whu-li has caused us lo grow and prosper as no people ever iirospered before, and I tell you we want to make haste slowly in these forward, imaginary steps of reform where we run against the rights of the people wlm are In come here and help us maintain the inlegrily nf niir I nmn, pn|iu!aii. it. de- \elop it and make it a mighty em|)ire. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow sent u|) an amendment which the Clerk reail as follows: Amenament to the amendinenl offered by Ihe gentleman from Ctallatm. "l^rovided that every person who has declared his intentnjn t(.) become a citizen ol the finited states, in order to enjny the right of suf- frage, shall perfect his cilizensluii in Inc years fmin Ihe dale nt the adoption of this constitution". .Mr. llartman ol Ciallalm: I will acce|il the amendment. .Mr. Chair- man. -Mr. Clark of Sliver Bow: .My object in offering the aineiidment is thai 1 am opposed to disfranchising anybody, if it can be avoided, w!io has had the right of suffrage in this Territory, and to whom as the gentleman has well said the members of this convention probably owe their seats. 1 still adhere to the original proposition tfiat every man who shall be entitled to the right of suffrage in the State id' Montana sliould live here fi\e years before he is entitled to vote; but if does seem to work a liardsliip ujjon the people who are enjoying that privilege here now. I will admit I hat many of them are not entitled by moral con- siderations to (he right of suttrage. We cannot take any cognizance nf that qualificalion, and in order lo avoid this seeming difficulty, I think by restricting the right of suffrage to these people who are now (mi- joymg it, to the limit of (he lime in which they may acquire citizen- ship, it will only be doing them an act of justice. The Clerk reread the suhslilule of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Clark) for the informalion (d' the convention. .Mr. Knowles. of Silver linw: Tliat wmild disfranchise for the five jears. •Mr. flarlman, of (lallaliii: If Ihe gentlemnii will rediire that [■> proper form 1 will accejd Hie amendment. .Mr. Bickford, of .Missoula: 1 move that the cninmittee do now ri>e, report progress and ask leaxe to sit again. The motion v^iis seconded. I'he Chair put the qui-stmn (,n Ihe said million and liie same was declared earned. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from Lewis cV Clarke .Mr. Cafpenteri 1 believe has written an amendment which probably is better than mine. The Clerk read the amendment of Ihe gentleman from Lewis \ Clarke (Mr. Carpenter! as follows: "I'rovided that after the expiration of fivt; years from the time of the adoption id' this constitution no |ierson except citizens shall have the rigid lo vnle." .Mr. Clark, of Silver J5nw: I iiioNe Ihe ailnjitinii nf Ibis amendinenl offered by the gentleman from Lewis iV Clarke. The Chairman: The motion that the commitlee rise was carried. .Mr. Clark, of Silver How; I beg jiardnn: I did iml kimw llial Ihe Chair had put tlie proposition. I.\ Ci).\\ K.MIO.N. J'residenl Clark in the Chair. Ttie convenlion was called to order. .Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: .Mr. Cliairman, Ihe Committee of the Whole have under consideration General Tile .\o. 12 and have made some prng ress and ask leave lo sit again. The Presidenl; The Chairman nf the Cnmmdli f Ihe Wlinle reports that the cnmmiltee lia\e had under cniisnlei-al inn I'l'npnsii mn No. I:'. Iiaxe CU.NSiriLTlO.NAl. CU.WK.MIO.N 1889 39) niaile sonio progress and ask loavo to sit again. 11' theru be no obji-i-lion li'avi' will bi' granted. .\lr. Kalon, of Park: 1 nioxe we lake a reeess untU two o'clock. i'be ni(dion was seconded. .Mr. Hicklord. of .Missoula: I move to amend by making it tlireo o clock. i'he motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said amendment, of the gentleman Irom .Missoula .Ml-. Hickford and a vole being taken the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until tlin-e o'clock. Ki-idiiy. July JCth. 1889. .Xl'tei noon Se.ssi(iii. The convention was called to order bv the President at three o'clock. The Clerk called the roll. . .Mr. Eaton, of Park: 1 would like to be excused from sometime this afternoon until Tuesday afternoon at four o'clock. .Mr. Heek. of "Deer Lodge: 1 would like to be excused uiilil Monday noon. .Mr. Conrad, of Clioleau: I beg lo be excused after this afternoon im'il -Monday at four o'clock P. .M. .Mr. .Marshall, of .Missoula: I ask leave (d' absence until Tuesday a( Iwo o'clock. .Mr. Brazlelon. of Jefferson: I ask leave of absenci' iiiilil Tuesday at two o'clock. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that the convention be excused. .Mr. Hobinson, of iJeer Lodge: I ask leave of absence from today after the adjournment until two o'clock Monday. .Mr. Browne, of (Ihoteau: 1 would like to be excused until four o'clock .Monday. -Mr. Conrad, of Clioteau: I would say. .Mr. President, that all the gentlemen living on the .Mfintana Central and also those living on the .Northern Pacific wish to go home and cannot get here until four o'clock on .Monday: and 1 would suggest that when the convention adjourn it adjourn until four o'clock instead of two. 'The President: The gentleman from Beaverhead County, .Mr. Knippen- berg. desires me to state tliat he wishes lea\e of absence for I he present. .Mr. Joy, of Park: 1 desire to be excused until three o'clock on Monday. .Mr. .Marrion. of .Missoula: I would like to be excused from today until lYiestlay at two o'clock. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: 1 iiKne llial when we adjourn we adjourn until four o'clock on Monday. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that when we adjourn we adjoui-n until nine o'clock tomorrow morning. The President: There is a motion before the convention that when the convention adjourn it adjourn until four o'clock on Monday. An amendment to' that is moved that when we adjourn we adjourn until nine o'clock tomorrow morning. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Custer '.Mr. Burleigh' and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty-seven in the affirmalne lo twenty- seven in the negative. The President: The convention will not vote upon the original inolioii. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President. I move that the con\ention do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the said motion and a \otc being taken the sann' was declared lost. the President: The (|uestion is now on the original molion of I hi' gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. Warren . .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I call for the ayes anil nays. The PresidenI: The ayes and nays will he entereil on the journal. .Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: \\ould an amendment be in order at Ibis lime".' 'The President: Yes sir. bUi PHUCEEDl.NG.S AM) UKBATES .Ml-. Hickards, nl SiImt Hhw: I iikinc Lhal when wo adjuurii wi; ail- jiiurn to iiieol at U'u o'clock toiniuTow inoriim^. TIk' Hresiilpiil: J'tic inotKui is not in order. .Mr. Hickard.s, of Silver H(iw: I move tlial wlien the convention ad- journ it adjourn to meet al 9:30 tomorrow morning. Ihe motion was seconded. The Cliair put Ihe sanJ question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow iMr. Hiekards and n vote being taken tlie same was declared earned. .Mr. Wan-en, of Silver Bow: 1 rise to a point of ordi-r. ffave not the ayes and nays been called for on the original motion? The l^resident: The gentleman rises to the point of order that the ayes and nays being called for on the original proposition, the amendment was not in order. That would be true if the roll had been begun, but the Clerk had not commenced to call the roll. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis >!<: Clarke: Mr. Presidenl. 1 move that the convention now resolve itself into Committee of the WIkiIc Im- I he cou- snleration of Proposition .No. 14. The motion was seconded. The President: The Chair would like to make a statement. I( has be<'n the express desire of quite a number of the gentlemen of this con- vention that they secure a photograph in group of the members of this (• -nvention. and an invitation was given by some photographer in the Piltsliurg Block lo take the photographs of the members of this conveiv lion free if they would give him a sitting. .My attention has bi'en callerl to it. and 1 have been reijuested to ask the members of the convention lo go I here and liave their photographs taken. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I desii-(> an excuse for my i-olli-a^iue. Mr. (iibson. until .Monday at four o'clnck. Till' I'residenI : 11 I here lie no objection tin- f;eiilleman will be ex- cused. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. J. K. Toolei, a vote being taken the same was declared carried, and the convention resolved itself into a Committee of the WIkiIc for the consideration of general orders. The President called .Mr. Cooper of Gallatin to the i-liair. IN GUM.MITTEE OK THE ^^'H()LE. .Mr. Cooper of Gallatin in the chair. The committee was called lo order. The Chairman: When the committee rose it had under consideration Ihe second subdivision of the resolution offered by the gentleman from Gallatin, which is a substitute to the substitute offered by the t^rntleman from .Missoula. The Clerk will i-ead the substitute. The Clerk read the .subdivision of Mr. Hartman's subslitule to Se(-lion 2. Provided second that nothing herein contained shall be construed to deprive any person of the right to vote who h;is such i-iglil :it the time of the adoption of this constitution. The Clerk then read the amendment of the gentliMiian ti-om Silver Bow (Mr. Clark) t,o the said substitute as follows: "Provide time of Ihe adoption of this con- stitution no persons excejif citizens shall have the right to vote." Mr. Hnrtman. of Gallatin: .Mr. Chairman, that annMidment is accepleil. The Chair then put the question on the amendment of the gentleman fi-iim (iailalin (Mr. Harlman^ and a division being called for Ihe same was declared carried by a vnle of forty-three in the affirniatix i' to eiiihl in the negative. The Chairman: The question ikiw is \i]ion the adnption of Ihe clause as amended. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I nin\i> lis ailo]inon. The motion was seconded. Mr. Durfee of Oeep Lodge i-allcil Ini- the n'ndiiit; nf the chnise as amended. The Clerk lead same. Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: Before that is |iul 1 ilesin- In sa\ lli:il I did not iinderslanil thai Mr. Clai-k's aiiiendmenl was m the nalun' nf a Slllistltule. CONSTITUTIONAL COAVEMION 1889 39'. Thp Clerk read the clause as amended as follows: Provided second that nothinjr herein contained shall be construed to deprive any person of the right to vole who has sucli right at tlie time of the adoption of this constitution. Provided third that after the expiration of five years Irom the time of the adoption of this constitution no persons except citi- zens of the Lnited States shall have the right to vote. Mr. Claik. of Silver Bow: II seems to me that the language is a little conflicting. .Mr. J. K. I'oole, of Lewis & Clarke: I would like to inquire of th» gentleman from Deer Lodge if that amendment does not in turn give to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who has declared his intention to become such a right to vote under the laws of the state lor the period of five years. .Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: It undoubtedly does. .M. .1. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman. I would like to offer the following. I ofier It as a substitute. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers a substi- tute which the Clerk will read. Is this a substitute for the entire propo- sition as submitted by Mr. Hartman and amended by Mr. Clark— in other words, for the whole section? Mr. .1. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Yes sir. The Clerk read as follows: Substitute for section 2 as amended by (he amendments of the gentleman from (iailatin Mr. Hartman^ and the gen;i»nian from Silver Bow I'Mr. Clark . ■'E^ery male citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years and every male citizen of the same agi> who has declared his intention of becoming a citizen, and who under existing laws of (he United States may ultimately become a citizen, and who for one year immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote has resided in the state, and who has resided in the county, city, to^ti or precinct such time as may be prescribed by law. shall be deemed an elector of this state and entitled to vote at the first general election after the admission of tliis state into the Union. and thereafter full citizenship of the United States, in addition to the qualifications above pro\ided shall be necessary to constitute such elector. Provided that no person convicted of a felony shall be denied the right to vote if he has been pardoned therefor." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: T move the adoption of the substitute. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I wish to ask if there is not an amendment pending — the amendment of the gentleman from Missoula. .Mr. Marrion? The ("hairman: T'he Chair understands that the gentleman from .Missoula offered a substitute. J'he gentleman from Oallatin (Mr. Hart- man offered a substitute for the substitute. I'hen that question was divided. We are now adopting the second subdivision. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis i.*t Clarke: I thought we had adopted that. .Mr. .Marrion's motion is now in order. The Chairman: Not until the second subdivision is disposed of. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke; I thought the Chair had decided that was adopted and then Mr. Toole offered this substitute. The Chairman: The amendment of the cjentleman from Lewis i>i- Clarke was adopted, but we have not taken a voti' upon the original question as amended. Mr. ■}. K. Toole, of Lewis \- Clarke: t nder the P^nabling Act for the foundation of the state of Montana all persons who are qualified electors under the laws of the Territory at this time become qualified elector-; for the purpose of voting on this constitution. This amendment proposes that all persons who are qualified electors of the Territory now. e\en those who are citizens and those who have declared their intention to become such, shall be qualified to vote at the first general election held after the admission of the state into the Union, which will be on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, eighteen hundred and ninety-one. Thereafter in order to vote if shall be necessary that the party be a full citizen of the Ignited States and possessing the same quali- fication, one year's residence in the state. The next general election after that would be in November, eighteen hundred and ninety-two. which would give from this time until that time for those persons who are qualified, to become citizens of the United States. It occurs to me that there is no other method by which we can make this general in its appli- cation so far as full citizenship is concerned without violating some o90 PHUCKKDI.NdS AM) DIJBATK^ lii'iiii'ililr (il tilt' consliliitinii. I i\aiit. Iij .--I'l' till' Mii'ii wliii arc ciililli'il tn \otk' upon llii.s eoustitutioii and wliu liavi' Iji-eii voting in tliis i'l'irituiy lor yoars — I want to see them secured the right to vole uniiiT general elections by the laws of the state; but I cannot see vei-y well how you can divide it up without requiring full citizenship of the people who have been here all these years and at the same tune I'equiring full citi- zenship on the part of those who are not residents of the I'ei-ritory at tills tune. My inclinations are that way. and I am very much like a gentleman who introduced a hill in Congress and succeedeil in getting It passed by that Congress. The President sent for him and (old him it was uiiconstitulioual. He told the President he had as much respect for the constitution as anybody else, but he did not allow il to stamt between himself and his friends. I feel very much like that in tliis matter, it may be some hardship to some person who has not resided heri" a sufficient length of time to vote at the second general elei'tlon. but I think it would probably take in four-fifths of those people. Mr. Eaton of Park called for the reading of the section as anieiidfd for which Mr. J. K. Toole's substitute was proposed as a substitute. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer called for the reading of the substitute of Mr. J. 1\. Toole of Lewis & Clarke. The CleriC read the section and the substitute. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Mr. President, it strikes me (hat we have voted on this first clause about oiieii enough. We have decided here about half a dozen limes that nooouy should be a voter except those per- sons residing in the Territory. As 1 understand the gentleman offers this as a substitute for the entire proposition. We voted on this proposi- tion half a dozen tunes and we havi' addpled it Iwice. It is about time we knew where we were. Mr. Harlman, of (iailalin: Tliere was a suggestion made here that by the adoption of the proviso of Mr. Clark that we admit every person who during these five years comes in to vote just as soon as they declare their intention. Now, I cannot see the force of that at all in construing the differenl provisos of the section logelher. There is no bi'ttei' rule of construction than that all the terms of it should be taken togi'thrr. .Now. then, "ffe shall be a citizen of the United States" is the first clausi' of it. That taken in connection with the proviso that nothing iierein contained shall be construed to deprive any person of the right to vote who has such right at the time of the adoption of this constitution is the onl\ limitation placed upon the separate provision that he must be a full citizen. The second clause says that after five years those persons who have declared their intention to become citizens must be full citizens. I do not see the force of the gentleman's remark, that this admits any person during the five years except those persons who are voters at the time of the adoption of the constitution of Montana, and tlien if they .complete their full citizenship within the five years they are full citi- zens and entitled to vote under the clause. But how it admits anybody else after he comes in here 1 do not see. It must be all construed to- gether, in order to give effect to it at all. The Chairman: 1 would like to. ask the gentleman rrnm Lewis cV Clarke if his substitute is intended to be a substitute lnr tlie eiiliri'. If so. his substitute is then not in order. -Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Very well, let it be wittidrawn. iMr. Carpenter, of Lewis & (jiarke: In prescribing the qualifications (if voters I think either part of tliis second subdivision ought to be strick- en out: that the part affecting convicts ought to be sli'icken out or else ilii' |iart affecting idiots and insane persons ought to be stricken out. I'lllier lioth ought to be in or both out. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: That does not seem In me to express, if 1 understand it, correctly the views llial I entertain upim lliis [U'npo- sition, which, if I understand it correctly, iivo embodied in the substitute offered by the gentleman from Lewis iV Clarke County, Mr. .1. K. Toole. My idea id' this thing is about this, that a person exercising the electne franchise should be a citizen of the United States. It should stop rigid there but for llie fact that many delegates have urged llie proposition that it would be unfair to disfranchise those who ha\e deidared their intention of liecoming citizens, so lar as this coming election is concerned. Now. I lia\e no objection so far as this coming election is concerned. CONSTlTUTlOiNAL CONVENTION 1889 397 Mr. Magiunis, of i^ewis \- Clarke: The I'irst general election is beyond the reach ot this convention. The Enabling Act provides tliat every per- son now (lualified shall be voters. -Mr. Robinson, of Ueer Lodge: The gentleman, I think, is mistaken m that. Our Enabling Act reads as follows: "At the elections provided lor in this section ihe qualified voters of said proposed states shall vote directly for or against the constitution" etc. That says "qualified voters" of said proposed states. .Now, I hen, we have it in our power to prescribe the qualifications of voters. This amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke County provides that all persons who are now qualified voters shall vote at I his first general election. That meets my views of the proposition. — that they shall be entitled to vote. Everyone who is a qualified voter under the present existing laws of the Territory of Mim tana should be entitled to vote at the first coming general election — at the October or November election whichever it may be. .Mr. J. Iv. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: My amendment refers to the first general election after the admission of the state into the Union. -Mr. Robinson, ol Ueer Lodge: Then 1 would change it so as to allow those voters who are voters at the present time to vote at the election on the lirst day of October, or the first general election in November. .\ir. Magmnis. of Lewis & Clarke: .*lr. Chairman, that is entirely beyond the reach of this convention one way or the other. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: We have the right. I claim, and it is not inliibiled by this Enabling Act, to prescribe the qualifications nf voters. .Mr. .Magmnis. of Lewis tt Clarke: This constitution has no effect until alter its adoption. -Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Reading "The qualified voters of said states shall vote."' Whatever qualifications we may prescribe for qualified voters would give them the right to vote or not to vote at any election. Then I say it would be unfair to those who have declared their intention to become citizens not to allow them to vote at any election this \ear. After that until the next general election ensuing, after this year, it gives those who wish to become citizens of the United States an oppcr- tunity to do so, and if they do not see fit to become citizens of the United Slates they should certainly not vote. I cannot see anything unfair in that proposition, and there is nothing illegal in it. .Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: It seems to me from the reading of this amendment that we are providing here who shall be voters in this ■J'erritory for the next five years. After the expiration of five years we admit an amendment here that allows only citizens of the United States to vote regardless of whether they are citizens of Montana or not. I call the attention of the gentlemen of the convention to that fact, and I think the amendment requires another amendment to it. .Mr. ilartman, of Gallatin: I call the attention of the gentleman to subdivision two of that section, "he shall be a resident." The Chairman: Ihe question is upon the adoption of this substi- tute as amended. 'J'he Chair put the question on the adoption of the subdivision as amended. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the subdivision as amended and a division being called for the same was declared adopted by a vote of thirty-eight in the affirmative to nineteen in the negative. .Mr. J. Iv. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I believe my sub- stitute is now in order. -Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: What has become of the euhsti- tute of the gentleman from Missoula? The Clerk read the substitute of the gentleman of Lewis & Clarke .Mr. J. K. Toole;. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis '.t Clarke: I move the adoption of the substitute. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The gentleman from Vellow^ton offers a substitute for the motion. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: The only objection I have to this substi- tute for this section is that after one year, or at the next general election after the adoption of this constitution, citizens of this Territory who are now enjoying the elective franchise will be disfranchised. Now, I cannot bm PHUCEEI)l.\(iS A.M) DKBAl'KS sec any particiilai' I'casdii \vli> lliry slimilil be allowed to v(jte at ou" election and then have tlie lianciiise taki-n away Ironi them. If thi.< motion prevails that will be the result of it. As I understand it they will bo allowed to vote at one ideetion and then thereafter will be dis- franchised. iSow, the particular objection, if I understand the sentimeni of this committt'e, is that those people who are now enjoying the right of suffrage in IMonlana should not be disfranchised at all. I think that there are very considerable reasons why men who are now enjoying the right of franchise should not have it taken away from them. I under- stand from the remarks of the gentleman from L)eer Lodge ttiat he may have a misconception of the naturalization laws, although he ought to be better informed on the subject than I am. He argues that if a man does not complete his citizenship, we shut him out. Now, as I have said, a man who has declared his intention of becoming a citizen of the United States two or three years ago may not be able to complete that citizenship; but by running along two or three years he will be able to do so: and cer- tainty at the end of five years every man who now enjoys the right of suffrage in Montana Territory and would be allowed to vote in the forma- tion of the stale would have the privilege of completing that citizenship. Then, I say if he does not do it, why, shut him out; give him a chance up to five years and then don't let him vote any more. But under the adoption of the amendment which I offer to Mr. Hartmans amendment, which has been \oted upon and adopted, it precludes no one after the adoption of this constitution from voting if he comes in and declares his intention of becoming a citizen, and that is what Iwant to get at. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Ctarke: It seems to me that this amend- ment should not prevail, for the reason that tlie section as now amended expresses clearer the sentiment as expressed by this convention than the substitute offered. It requires that voters shall be citizens except those who have the right to vote now, and those who have now the right to vole who are aliens shall not be prevented from voting for five years, giving them ample time to become citizens, after that time none but citi- zens shall have the right to vote. It expresses in the clearest language, it seems to me, the sentiment thai is expressed by the convention in tin- votes that have been given. I think this amendment might he unproved, but it would probably be at the expense of some of these provisions which clearly express the sense of the convention. Mr. J. Iv. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: If I thought it meant that, 1 would support it, but i think it clearly means not only what the gentle- man says, but it goes further and says that if a man shall come here in four years from this lime and deidare his intention of becoming a citizen of the United States that he would be entitled to vote. It does not apply only to those wlio are here now. but it goes further and authorizes ,iny person who comes here within the period of five years and declares his intention of becoming a citizen of the United States to vote at any election. Now, I would like, with the consent of my second, to strike out the words "tirst general election" in that and insert "second general election." Wher- ever "first election" occurs insert "general election." That will give three years and about eight months, or nearly four years, in whicdi io perfect citizenship. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: It seems to me that IIh' honcu-abli' gentleman from Lewis & Clarke is entirely mistaken in the ciinslrucluin of this matter. It gives no person who is an alien and who has declared his intention Io become a citizen a right to \ole after the period of five years from the adoption of this constitution unless he is a voter at the time of its adoption. If he comes here after that time and is an alien he will not be a voter and cannot vote after five years. It seems to me that a reading of it will convince any member of this convention that it is perfectly clear and plain. The Chairman: The question is upon the ado|ition of the substitute offered by the gentleman from i^^wis it Clarke (Mr. J. K. I'oole). .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, 1 believe ttii>re are twenty-six letters in the Knglish alphabet and some sixty thousand words in the Knglisb language. Now, this is an important matter, and if there is any obscurity in the gentleman's method of expression here that can be re- moved by the use of those words and tlmsc letters. I would like to lia\(> it done. This is (m(> of the most important matters so far as affects the present and the future of this state that can possibly conic nji. It is COiNSTlTLiTION.VL C0>;\ K.MIOX 1SH9 399 lar rciu-liiiig in its lesiilts, and I do not think tliat we had belter hurry a matter through here that is yoing to remain in obst-urity. I hope the !,'entleman who offered tlie last substitute will, if there be any obscurity, remove it so that we may act understandingly and know just exactly what we are voting for. 1 am in favor of the sentiments he puts forth I'.ere. I do not believe in restricting it so much as some other gentle- men do. but whenever the proposition comes up 1 would like to have it so plain and unmistakable that we can adopt it. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (.Mr. J. K. Toole}, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. .Mr. Chessman, of Lewis A: Clarke: 1 mo\e the adoption of the section as ami-nded. The motion was seconded. .Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I think that the amendment of the gentleman from Missoula to the section is still pending. We have not had a vote on it. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I call for the reading of the amendment. The Chairman: The substitute was adopterl. Mr. .Magmnis. of Lewis & Clarke: It was never up for ailoption. It was offered as a substitute to this section. .Mr. Bickford. of .Missoula: I think the convention should have an cpportunily to vote upon the amendment as presented by .\lr. Marrinn. I call for a vote on it. -Mr. iMaginnis. of Lewis A; Clarke: I move the adoption of the substi- tute offered by the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Marrion. The Clerk read the said substitute of the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Collins, of Cascade; I rise to a point of order. My point of order is this, that at the session of the committee yesterday and. as I understand it. at the session of the Committee of the Whole this forenoon, we decided that the qualification of an elector shall be first, that he shall be twenty- line years of age, and next he shall be a citizen, and then we decided an amendment as given in this fourth clause. .Now. my point is this, that a motion to insert the word "may" will not be in order, nor a motion to insert "not less than nor more than twenty-one": or a motion "that he shall become a naturalized citizen." simply because we have passed upon that already: and the only way by which it can be brought up again in this committee is by a reconsideration. 1 remember distinctly that Mr. Warren on yesterday made a motion that the qualification of an elector shall be that he is a citizen, and after a great deal of Argument, that was passed. That was the view of the committee. Now, I claim that upon that same proposition again that w-e cannot vote except by a reconsidera- tion. If you do vote upon this proposition over and over again there is no telling how long we will sit in committee upon this one section: there is no limit to the time. But when we agree upon a proposition and adopt i! by a direct vote, certainly I do not think it is in good parliamentary order to have someone else get up and move that same motion in a dif- ferent way unless the whole matter is reconsidered. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I believe that it is the rule that alter all means to change the text of th(> section are exhausted, that then a motion to .substitute for the amended text is in order. The Chairman: The Chair decides that the point of order is not well taken. T'he Chair then put the question on the substitute offered by the gentleman from Missoula and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. .Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis &Clarke: I move to amend the section by adding after the words "persons convicted of a felony." "no idiot or insane person." I do this for the purpose of perfecting the section. If you put one in you should include the other: otherwise the section is not perfect. .Mr. Eaton, of Park: T would like to ask what is the object of the gentleman's motion? Is he going to disfranchise the members of this convention? ^Laughter There being no second to the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis \- Clarke f.Mr. Carpenter), the Chair put the question on the adoption of the section as amended, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. 400 PROOEEIJI.NOS AM) DKHAIKS 'i'lie Clerk read si'ction 3, Proposiliun .No. Ik, as follows: Soctioii 3. l''or the purpose ol voting, no person shall bo dcenied to have gained or lost a residence by reason of his preseiiee or absence while employed in the service of the state or of the United States, nor while engaged" in the navigation of the waters of the stale or of the United States, nor while a student at any institution of learning, nor while kept at any alms house or other asylum, at ihe public expense, nor while confined iii any public prison. There being no amendments to section 3, the Clerk read section 4, as follows: Section 4. Kiectors shall in an cases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be pri\ileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and in going to and returning therefrom. There being no amendments to section 4 the Clerk read section 5, as follows: Section 5. iNo elector shall be obliged to perform military duty on the days of election except in times of war or public danger. There being no amendments to section 5, the Clerk read section 6. Section 6. Ko soldier, seaman or marine in the army or navy of the United States shall be acemed a resident of this state, in consequence of being stationed at any military or naval place within the same. There being no amendment to section 6 the Clerk read section 7, as follows: Section 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this stale, civil or military, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in tins state at least two years next before his election or appointment. Ihere being no amendment to section 7, the Clerk read section 8, as follows: Section 8. i\'o idiot or insane person shall be entitled to vote at any election m this state. Mr. Hartrnan, of Gallatin: I desire to call attention to the fact that there is a discrepancy between section 7, the last word in the second line of the section, and the report of the Judiciary Committee as to the quali- fications of candidates for District Judge. The Judiciary Committee's report provides that District Judges shall reside in the state at least one year. This is a general clause that all civil or military officers shall have resided in the state at least two years. 1 theri'fore think it IS necessary to strike out, and 1 move to strike out "two" and insert "one," The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Gallatin (Mr, fiartman) and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to section 8, the Clerk read sec- tion 9, as follows: Section 9. The Legislative Assembly shall have the power to pass laws excluding from the rights of suffrage persons con- victed of infamous crimes. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I move to strike out the section. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Clark), and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I desire to tui-ii back to section 8 and insert so that it will read as follows, "No idiot or person adjudged to be insane." I make that as a motion. The motion w'as seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Carpenter, of I^ewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, I oluecl (o that li>r the reason that there are a great many insane persons kept in private houses whose friends will never let them go to an asylum. it is supererogation. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I opiiose Ihe amendment for the reason that no person is insane in law until he is adjudged to be so, CcliM' fi-ancliise. Mr. Warren, id' Sihcr Bow: I have an aniendinent In (irtrr In lin- section. ^ IF LEOPOLD F. SCHMIDT SIMEON R. BI'FORD THOMAS JOTES WALTER M. BICKFORD HENRV R. WHITEHILL CHARLES S. HARTMAN WILLIAM MAYGER CONSTriLTlU.NAL CU.WE.NTIUN 1S«9 401 The Clork rfad as follows: Insert altor llio word "pass" iii line one as lollows: "a registration and sueh otiier laws as may be necessary. " Mr. idartnian, of (iailalni: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chai!' stated the motion. Mr. Hobniton, of Deer Lodge: 1 tiust that the amendnifiit will not prevail, liceausi-. if it does, as 1 understand it. it will fix upon the state of -Montana forever the registration laws, whether future legislation shall dee-n it wise or not, after having tried the experiment. We ari' now prei)ai-ing to try the experiment of the registration laws, and if this amendment is adopted, whether those law:, prove to be salutary or not. it will fix (hem upon the state of Montana forever. Therefore, I am oppose(t to this amendment. Mr. ''.lark, of Sliver Bow: I move to amend hy striking out the word "shall" and inserting "may." Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: The Legislaturi' would have the jjower now to do that. The courts have construed that word "may" to be mandatory. .Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: It seems to me tliat this amendment limits rather than increases the obligation of the Legislature under the section. The section says. "It shall pass laws to secure the purity of elections." The Chairman: The question is upon the amendment to the ann-nd- ment to strike out the word "shall" and insert "may". The Chair put the question on the said amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow (.Mr. Clark and a vote being taken the same was de- clared lost. The Chairman: The question now is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Warren; . Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: in connection with this matter, 1 desire to say this, that the first election ever held under the laws of the Terri- tory of Montana in which we will have a free ballot and a fair count will come off on the iirst day ol October next. I see nothing in this amendment that any gentleman can take exception to. It is something that nearly every state in the Union now has. That amendment simply says that the Legislature shall pass a registration and such other laws as may be necessary to secure the purity of elections. I feel so far as 1 am concerned that it is about time in the history of the state of Montana that we should vote our sentiments and have that vote counted. Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: 1 really think that the people of this Territory are desirous of having honest and pure elections, but it does seem to me that the report of the committee is ample and that this amend- ment is unnecessary. While I believe in having a pure and honest ballot, I shall vote against this amendment. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I trust that this amendment will be voted dO'^Ti. We have already adopted a provision, or there is one here, that the Legislature shall pass such laws as will secure the purity of the ballot. I take it, sir, that it will be wrong to commit the state of Montana forever and irrevocably to any system of registration. It has been suggested by the gentleman who preceded me, that .Montana for the first time in her history will have a free ballot and a fair count. 1 think, sir. that he reflects upon the good name and reputation of this Territory when he makes that declaration nere. whether it be designed for political or other purposes. It is a reflection sir, which I am here and now in my seat ready to deny. It may be. sir. that in elections of this Territory, there has not been that purity of the ballot which the people of the Terri- tory had a right to demand: but that it has been up to the standard and in keeping with the states of the Union nobody will deny. \\'e have now. sir. a system provided of registration in this Territory which will lie in- augurated, we hope, for the first time within a month or two from this date, and it is the first registration that will have occurred in the history of the Territory. It may or it may not prove a benefit to the people of the new state, and may or may not aid in securing that purity of the ballot which every good citizen wants to see. But that we shall say in this constitution that the people of the state shall enforce a registration system, is, in my opinion, wrong. It may be. sir, that after this election is over the people of this state will be satisfied with that system, or they may be utterly and completely disgusted with the entire proceedings. iO'Z I'ltOCKKIH.NCS AM) DEBATK8 1 lii'lK'vr, Mir. ill llie virliii' and lu Ihr iiitcKrily ol llic people. L'pnn that |iriui-iple, 1 ljelit'\r yuvcrri iit i.s and ou.i^lit to lie ba.sed; and allliougli tins roiivi'iitioii so far a.s lln' iiili't^rity and tin' iiitidliKi'iice of its iiifinljiM-s ib I'onceriifd i^oinparcs favdralil.v witli an.v like jjody tliat lias ever asseni- bled in thi.s Terntory. 1 do not believe thai it possesses the coinhined wis- dom of the land. Let. us leave something for tlo' people of the state of .Montana to do. As I siiygesled here the other day to a friend upon this floor, I was almost iiu-lined to introduce here a provision uito this consti- tution that instead oi' hiennial sessions of the Legislative Assemhl.N', that it should be provided by law that the constitutional convention should meet biennially for le,iiislative purposes. It will answer the purpose just as well, if we propose to descend into every detail of legislation and anticipate for one hundred years, if it may he, what shall be necessary, not only to secure the purity of the ballot but all of the details of legis- lation necessary to run and secure the state government. I believe in lodging the power with the people of the slate and i)utting in the con- stitution no provision exci>pt such as appears to be absolutely necessary, and sucli safeguards around the interests id tlie peo|)le as have been well established by years of expei'ience and observation. Outside of ttial, sir, 1 would commit all other matters to tlie people. I am willing now as I have ever been to submit to the voice of the people of this territory, and as I will be, to the voice of the people of this new slate wliatever shall be necessary to secure life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the pro- tection of property; and I think, sir, that we siiall make a grave mistake it we insert the proposed amendment of tlie gentleman from Silxer Bow into the constitution at this time. Let us havt> at least om; trial of the registration system before we are committed unalterably to it. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: In voting upon this proposition I desire to suggest this for tlie consideration of the members who are familiar with the continental principle, as I am, and that is that all political power is inherent ni the people; that when the people get together to create and form a constitution they delegate to the government just such power as they see fit and no more, and all power not delegated to the Federal gov- ernment IS reserved to the people. In the formation of the constitution ol the United S>tates "It was the states and tin' people respectively," but liere it is reserved to the people; and when they have once delegated this power it is gone beyond their reach except by an amendment to the constitution by which it is regained, or by revolution. I recollect once having a conversation with Mr. Lincoln during the stormy days of the l!ei)Ul)lic when he spoke of this question of constitutional power, and he turned around to me, depressed in spirts as lie seemed a great deal of the time, and said, "Doctor, the safest place to repose political power is with the people." 1 have never seen the time that the people weri? not willing to surrender it for the public weal, for the safety of the nation, or the protection of the people; and I am a little chary about sticking everything in here, because every act of ours in creatmg this constitution is a surrender of the sovereign power of the people. Now, 1 lay that down as a fundamental principle: but it has seemed to me some- times while we were here, that instead of being here to perform the work of statesmen, we were here to perform some culinary art on the day before Tlianksgiving. and that is to stuff everything we can into the turkey regardless of anything but satiating our desires and satisfying our appetites. Now, I agree witli my friend from Lewis & Clark Counly who has just spoken, that the provision reported back here, in my judgment, is as far as the people ought to go. There may have been flaws; there may have been votes purchasi^d and everything of that kind, but is it not safer to leave this power with the people and rely u|ion the good sense and the virtue of the people to coi'rect thes(> derelictions in the future. Why. if he represents the Democratic party in all id its grand- eur. I am liere as one of the humble members of the He|)ut>lican parly: yo\ I belie\e that the uoctrine which is eiuiiiciated in that section of tlie reiiort of the committee goes quite far enougli. I want to leave that matter in the hands of the people. This registration law is an experi- ment, and 1 am afraid it is going to be a very expensive one; but if it guards the ballot box, preserves its purity and gives men a right lo prescribe a government of their own in an honest and efficient manner, il is worth all it costs. I believe for the present it had better be left III llie tiaiiits of llie Legislature, which niiMiis lo leaxe il in Ihe bands id' CU.\ST1TLTI(».\AL I'.O.NVKMKtN 1880 'i03 tlie pcopli', and when the reprosoiitalives of the people come up liere to recof^nize the sovereign power of the people, if it is tleemed desirable and just, it will be made a permanent law. I do not want a law here like that of the Medes and Persians, which shall be irrevocable. 1 want to leave .something, yea. everything open to the exercise of the popular will excepting that which is absolutely necessary to establish a government here and run its machinery without any oscillation or danger of a fallins or loitering semblance. Mr. \\ hitehill. of Deer l.odgi': T think it was very conclusively settled during the session of the last Legislature that the sentiment of the people of .Montana was thoroughly in favor of registration laws. That was discussed thoroughly in the papers during the session of the last Legislature, and the registration law was finally passed in obedience to the demand of the people, regardless of politics. I have nothing to say against the mode of conducting elections in Montana. I believe they liavi' been as fair as they are usually in states where there is no registration law. but 1 am in favor of registration laws because 1 believe under such laws we can have tair elections. This is sought to be put in the consti- tution for the reason that where the constitution is silent on the subject the Legislature cannot pass registration laws. .Now. I desire to quote a case in Wisconsin where the courts have decided that where the consti- tution prescribed the qualifications of voters without requiring regis- tration, a statute which adds an enactment that no person shall vote except in accordance with the provisions of the act. is invalid. Xow. there is a decision of one of the highest courts of the state, deciding that unless a provision is in the constitution that the legislative enactment passed lor that purpose is invalid, and for the purpose of settling this question and the dispute, we might as well face it right here. I think the unani- mous consent almost of the voters of this state is that we should ha\e a registration law, and unless we emtjody such a provision now in this con- stitution, 1 say that then we are lorever shut off from passing a registra- tion law. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: If that be the law — perhaps it is — 1 take the position that the gentleman does, that I do not desire to see a constitution passed here which will forever prohibit us from passing a registration law if the people of the new state shall deem it necessary for the protection of the ballot. 1 want to avoid that just as much as I want to avoid the proposition of passing it unalterably and for all time. Therefore, to meet the views of the gentlemen. I now move to amend the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow by striking out the word "shall" and inserting the word "may.' The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like to move an amendment to that "the Legislature shall have the power"' after the word "shall." Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: The gentleman from Silver Bow, -Mr. Clark, made that motion, and it was voted do\Mi. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I rise to a point of order. If it has been voted down it cannot be renewed. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis <.\: Clarke: I accept the amendment offered by the gentleman from Custer. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: The law read by the gentleman from Deer Lodge does not apply in this case. W'e have got upon our statute books a registration law. in our schedule we will provide that all laws now in existence shall be laws under the state, so that if we had no registration law in existence in .Montana today and there was nothing in our constitu- tion which provided for registraiion then this law might be applicable. All the courts of this state might so rule; but as we have a registration law. certainly there is no necessity for putting anything else in the cnn sfitution in regard to it. The law will be in existence while Montana is a state unless repealed by the I^egisiature. So I do not see the necessity of this. If registration is in the interest of fair elections, if the people want It, it will remain on our statute books forever: if they do not want it, they should have the right of striking it out. .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: I wish to say that the schedule will be that all laws in force in the Territory that are not in conflict with this constitution, and not all laws in force, will become a part of the laws of the state: because there are a great many which might conflict witli the constitution; and hence it will onlv be such as do not conflict witli 404 PHUCb;Kl)l.\(;s A.ND DKHA lES till' constitution. IT I lie ilecislon i-c;iil liy tlii' gi'iitli'inan lium I)cit Lody' .sliould ;ip[ily to lln' constitution lliat wc aiiopt, tlicn if tliat proliiljils a i-cyislration law, why, tins re^:ist ration law will be repealed; tliat will be ttie ellect ol it. It is only a question as to whether that is in contlicl with tlie laws or with the provisions of this constitution. Without that decision I would have thought that there could have been a law passeil for the registration of voters notwithstanding this provision of tlie con- si itution. The courts may taki' that view, that having said tlial citizens and certain other parties who have declared their intention to become citizens were entitled to vote that they could not add an additional require- ment, and that is that they should be registered. But I think that most slates that have a registration lawi have just such provisions in theii- constitution as we have in ours. This Legislature will have general powers of legislation. It will not be like tlie Congress of the United iStates, which has only specific powers of legislation. There they are confined to legislate upon specific questions that are delegated to them as a legislative body: but the Legislative Assembly will have a right to legislate upon all rightful subjects of legislation except where limited by this constitution. The Chairman: I'he question is upon the amendment of the ginitle- man from Custer (Mr. Burleigh). The Chair put the question upon the said amendment of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. riurleighi, and a vote being taken the same was de- clared carried. The Clerk read section II as follows: The Legislative Assembly may pass laws allowing women the right to hold any school district office and vote at any school district election. Mr. Mayger of Lewis & Clarke sent up an amendmenl. Mr. Collins of Cascade also sent up an amendment. The Cierk read as follows: Amend section It by striking (jut the word "may" and inserting the word "shall" in line one. The Clerk also read as follows: Amend line two by striking out the word "district" — so that it will read: "The Legislative Assembly may pass laws allowing women the right to hold any school office and vote at any school election." The Clerk also read as follows: Amend section 11 by adding after the word "district" wherever it occurs in line two, the words "or municipal" I ottered by Mr. Collins). The Chairman: The question is uiioii the motion of the gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Women have had the right to vote in school elections for a number of years under the laws of the Territory. Women have also had the right to be candidates for a county offic(> under the laws of this Territory. This constitutional enactment or section takes away part of the rights they have had before. Now, I believe Ihat instead ol taking away part of those rights we should add some to them. We have decided not to add fully to Iheiir: we have decided not to give the elective franchise to them, but certainly we should not decide to take the powers in this line that they have away from them. The municipal elections of Montana are held separate and distinct from tlie general elec- tions. Great reforms in the municipal laws of the Territory are needed, and everyone who has given I his matter any consideration or thoughl tielieves that by infusing new blood into these elections — by allowing thi' women to vote — those reforms will occur, and that if they have the right to vole it: will be a blessing to the towns of Montana. Any school elections where women have voted, and where the votes of women have predom- inated, has been a reform in tlK^ right direction. Every school district of Montana, be it in a town or in the country, where women hav(> partici- pateil in ttie elections, have been benefited by tlieir views and their votes. The great things to lie reformed in our Territory and in e\ery state in the I'nion are municipal ordinances, and I claim that as good citizens, the male inhabitants of Montana who have now the privilege of exer- cising the elective franchise should take one step — a small step in ad- vance, and give womcm the right to exercise their influence for good in the government of our cities and villages. I hope Ihat this will pass, nol, that we shall give them the I'iglit, but that we shall deh'gate it to the l,i'gisl;iliire |o gn'e il to Ihein. CU.NSTITLTIO.NAL CO.WKMION 1«89 405 Mr. Mayger, of i^ewis & Clarke: I believe 1 can endorse all the gen- llciiian from Cascade has said in this matter. We heard a great many siK'eches here the other day. This amiMidment that 1 make here is to transfer into the nands of women the right to vote at an election for school office in the state of Montana. It does not only go as far as (lie county offices, but it takes in as well the office of State Superintendent of I'ublic Instruction and that was what was intended to be covered by Ihe amendment that 1 sent to the Clerks desk. I think from the number of gentlemen that spoke upon woman suffrage the other day in regard to civil government, that some of them ought certainly to support this amendment. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: It seems to me that that amend- ment goes to this extent that the Stale Superintendent of Public Instruc- tion is elected at the general election, and to vote for that officer would bo to vote at the general election: and to allow them to vote at municipal elections and also at state elections would be to allow them to vote gen- erally. 11 IS the same question that was decided yesterday. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade and a division being called for. the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty-three in the affirmative to thirty-nine in the negative. The Chairman: The question is now upon the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. Mr. Watson, of Fergus: 1 ask for the reading of the amendment I sent up some time ago. The Chairman: lour amemlmenl has been out of order until this moment. It is now m order. The Clerk read as follows; Amend section 11 by inserting after the word "hold" in the first line the words "the office of Ihe County Supi'riii- tr'ndent of Schools or." Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: 1 desire Iq advocate the amendment of- lered by the gentleman from Fergus, Mr. Watson, and I desire to advocate it upon Ihe ground of public policy, and 1 believe that the experience ol this Territory will bear me out in saying that where women have bei-ii elected to the office of County Superintendent of Public Schools that the system has been improved thereby. I know that in our ON\"n county a most estimable lady has occupied the position for one term. She fulfilled the duties of the office to the entire satisfaction of the voters of the county. i believe that the people of Lewis i.t Clarke County at the present time have idaced the charge of their schools in the hands of a lady in whose integrity, in whose ability, and in whose efforts in behalf of the public schools they have the utmost confidence. 1 believe, sir, that in view of the fact "that the experience of the past has shown us that the ladies are fully competent to take charge of this department of the public service that we should as members of this constitutional convention ex tend to them the same right that they now have under the laws of the Territory. It is only by a consideration of the events of the past that we are enabled to imbibe wisdom for our guidance in the future. There- fore, I say that if it has proved a satisfactory course in the past in tins Territory,' if we are satisfied with the laws as they now stand, this amendment should certainly prevail. I hoiie that the members of the convention will take into consideration Ihe fact that the ladies have ful- lilled the duties to which they have been elected to the entire satisfac- tion of the people of this Territory. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I am happy to put in one wonl for the amendment. Women have been eligible to school district offices and to the office of County Superintendent of Schools, and I am opposed to taking away any of the rights that they have enjoyed. I am therefore in lavor of tlie amendment. The Chair put the question on the said amendment of the gentleman from Fergus, ^Ir. Watson, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Marshall of Missoula sent up an amendment which the Clerk read as follows: "That the first seven words of section 11 be stricken out ami after the word "women" the words "shall have"" be inserted, so that it shall read as follows: "Section II. Women shall have the right to hold /i06 IMtOCKKIilMiS A.Mi DKHAIKS tlip (ill'Icc of ('.(iiiiily SuiJi'riuU'iHli.'iit nl' ScIumiIs nr any si-liunl ilistricl oIliCL', and \ott' at any school ilistrict t'li'ction." Till' motion was .seconded. Ttie Cliair stated (tie motion. .Mr. Marshall of Missoula: My object, Mr. Chairman, is only that this convention shall declare that the women shall have the right, instead of saying that the Legislature shall have the po\yer to pass laws giving them the right. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & illarke: 1 simply offered an amendment as to tills language. If women ha\e the right to hold these offices I do not see who else can hold them. 1 therefore move to amend "that women shall be eligible to Ihe office of County Superintendent of Public In- struction." Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: I accept that amendment. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 have no objection so far as I am concerned to the proposition if it was in the Legislature, but the objection 1 have to it in the constitution is that it does not properly form a part of the constitution. The proper way is for the constitution to declar.' that the Legislature may prescribe the eligibility to the respective offices. and not for the constitution to declare who shall hold offices, and who shall not. It is intrenching upon the functions of the Legislature and 1 think it is proper for the convention to leave that all entirely to thi' l,egislature. Mr. Rickards. of biiver Bow: We have been doing that for two days. Mr. Robinson, of ueer Lodge: It is trenching upon their powers, and therefore I think it should be left to the Legislature as in the original report of the committee, to declare who shall be eligible to the office. Ijo far as the schedule is concerned it is proper enough for the Legislature the first time it can convene, wher(> offices have not heretofore been created to make some declaration respecting that. It would come prop- erly in the form of tne schedule; but so lar as the constitution proper is concerned I think It has no place there. It is a power which belongs to the J.egislative Assembly and should no! be in Ihe constitution. That is the only objection J ha\e to it. So far as the principle is conceriifo J agree with the gentlemen. I believe in the ladies holding these offices in regard to the public schools. I have seen the good results of that. We have quite a number of ladies Superintendents of Public Schools in the different counties, and I have seen nothing but good resudts coming from It. I am an advocate of it, and have no objections to it. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: "()h. Consistency, thou art a jewel." Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: I think for every single office that is spoken of in this constitution the qualifications are prescribed: The county attorney shall be over twenty-one years of age: a judge shall be of such an ace. and reside in such a place; and it seems to me the especial object and puriiose of a constitulion is to declare not (miy who shall be electors but who shall be eligible to the different offices: and it, does seem to me it is appropriate that the constitution should specif.\' the qualifications for this office. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Missoula '.Mr. Marshall) and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The (Uiaii'man: The Clei'k w-ill ri'ad Ihe ameiidrneiil dl Ihe f.'enlh^- man from Lewis t^ Clarke, Mr. Mayger. The Clerk read as follows: Amend sei-linn II l;i\ sinking: oiil Hi.- word "may" and inserting the word "shall" m line one. Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: I withdi-aw that molinn. 1 would like to have the proposition last amended read so dial we can under- stand it. T'he Clerk read section 11 as amended. .Mr. .Mayper. of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman. I would like lo offer an amendment. The Clerk read the amendment of the gentleman from I-ewis A Clarke as follows: ,\fter the words "schools or" insert "or State Superintendent of Putdic Instruction." The motion was seconded. The Cliair put the question on the said motion of the genlleman from Lewis ^- Clarke 'Mr. Mayger) and a vote being taken the same was de- clared lost. CO.NSTllLTIU.NAL CO.WE.XTIO.N 18«9 407 Mr. Watson, of Ferj-'us: I ilfsire to say tliat 1 think tliere sliould bj anotliiT aniendineiit made in order to carry out the wishes of the eonven- lioii evidenced by its votes. I desire to amend then by striking out the words "school district" as they are in the three last words of the section, and to insert after the word "election" the words "in reference to scliools." As 1 understand il, you have made women elig^ible only to school district offices. The motion was seconded. The (Jhairman: Will the gentleman send up his amendment in wrii iiijir, that we can get a record of it? -Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I would call the attention of the committee to the fact that section 12 of this schedule is the same as sec- tion 3 of the proposition on Executive Departments, that is, it fixes the (lualifications for the office of Governor, t.ieutenant-Uovernor, etc., with the excejilion that the time required is two years instead of three. I iiotici' tlie gentleman made the same sort of correction in regard to judges, on the former page. .Now. I do not see the necessity of repeating the same sections in tlie constitution, in regard to the officers and havTfig their Mualifications enumerated twice, i'lie same observation applies to the succeeding section. The Chairman: A motion to slrike out will be in order. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I move to strike out those two sections. .Mr. Billiard, of Jefferson: We did not know when we acted upon this subject that any other committee would lake it ui>, and consequently we fulfilled only our duties. The Chairman: the question is now upon tlu' amendmenl of the gentleman from J-'ergus, which will be read. The Cerk read as follows: Strike out the wnnls "school district where they last occur and aild after the word "election" the words "in reference to schools." Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Would not an election of State Superintendent of Public Instruction be considered "in reference to schools," and would not that gi\e them, as (iov. CarpiMiter said, a right to vote at any election'.' .Mr. W atson, of Fergus: 1 see the point made by the gentleman from Lewis & ClarKe, and I will amend my amendment so as to cover that part of it. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, I will move to strike out section 12, fixing the qualitications of executive officers. The motion was seconded, the Chair stated the motion. -Mr. itickards, of Silver liow: It seems to me that that would hardly be a proper form. It is scarcely treating the committee right. 1 move to amend that when the committee rise to rep(U-t back, recommending that sections 12, 13, li and 1.5 be filed on thf general file for consideration with Proposition No. 4. .Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I accept that amendment, so far as the proposition affecting these different departments is concerned. .Mr. Carpenter, nf Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chaiinian. is a motion m order in reference to these sections? i'he Chairman: Ves sir. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis iS: Clarke: I would liki' lo iiio\,. in strike oni the whole of tliese sections and substitute this whicli I offer. the Chairman: The Clerk will read the subslitule of the geiillciiiaii Irom Fergus, -Mr. Watson. T'he Clerk read as follows: Strike out the words "school dislrict" where they last occur and add after "election" I he words "in relerence to state offices." .Mr. Craven, of Lewis iK: Clarke: It does occur to me that this amend- ment should pass. .Now, the office of County Superintendent is voted for at the same time as the other county offices and it will necessitate an additional expense in the matter of ballots at least when we go lo elect coiintv offic(>rs if we li>t women vote tor any particular office on the ticket" and not for all. 1 sei' nn good lo be subserved by Ihe tranchi-e in that respect. 408 PROCEKDINGS A.MJ I )KBAJES Till' (Uiiiir jjul till' qupstidii fin tlic .said Imn nf the j;ciil Icinau Iriuii I'ci'gns I Mr. Wal.son.i and a vcily Ijimiik taken tlu' sanic was dcclari'd Icisi. .Ml'. CollHis, of Cascade: Tlie clianiiiinns nf section 11 lia\e overlooked llie lael tliat tliey must, make a declaration before it can lie of any foro' and ellect, and 1 resijectfully suggest that as we made a declaration the oilier day that a certain thing can be public property without any par- ticular reason for it, in this manner we must make a declaration ilial woman is a person, before this section can have an\ \alidity. 8o I respectfully request that the gentlemen who are chaminoiiing this par ticular question make a motion that a woman is a human being or person ill the languagi' of the court, and that she can fill tlie (dfices, etc. I respectfully suggest that some of those gentleman make thai motion. The Chairman: The Clerk will read the amendment ol iln' gentleman from Lewis & ('larke (:\lr. Carpenter > to section 12. The Clerk read same. Mr. Clarke, of Silver Bow: 1 mo\e the ailoidion of section It as amended. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of tlie gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Clark/ and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read section 12. Mr. Bullard, of Jefferson: In regard to these sections 12, IH. 14 and 15, it seems to me that the members of this committee on suffrage and qualifications to hold office are willing that these sections should be stricken out m order to save the time of the convention. The Chairman: The Chair has a substitute for section 12. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I 'rise to a point of order, and it is this, that I made a motion, which was duly seconded, that the sub.ject matter contained in 12, 13, 14 and 1.5 be ri'ported back by the coinmittee when lliey rise with the recommendation that it be filed and considered witli Proposition Ao. 10. 1 renew my motion. Mr. Durfee, of IJeer Lodge: I move to amend by adilinj: sections h' and 17. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis ^: Clarke offers a sulj- stitute which will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk reaa as follows: Substitute for all qualifications of sec- tion i2 to f7 inclusive: "iNo person qualified to vote at general elections in this state shall be eligible to any office therein except as otherwise proxided in this constitution, or subject to such additional ipialifications as may be prescribed by the Legislative Assembly for city offices ana olfices hereafter created." Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 will state itie reasons why I offer that. Tlie reason why I favor the adoption of that substitute is thi.-.. 1^'irst, as has been staled tlie provisions of these sections are all iirovided for in the reports of the several committees — the Committees on KxecutiNc iJepartments, J.egislatne Deparlments, .Judicial Departments and County (_>fficers. iNow, this is the report of the Committee on Suffrage and quali- fications to hold office, it is staled who may vote. There is not a quali- fication stated m this report as to who shall hold office. K\i>rylhlng slated is a disqualification. Now, that states affirmatively who may and who may not hold office subject to these other provisions: and subject to these provisions it provides the general provisions that a person en titled to vote is entilled to hold office. Mow, in regard to all the Execu- tive, Legislative, Judicial and County Officers, it is stated thai th(' person is to be a citizen, .^'obody is qualified except in a backhanded way: he IS qualified by implication, because the constitulion does not say he isi dis(|ualified. .Now. it. seems to me there oimlit to be a pro\ision slating who shall hold office, and this does not make a voter eligible to (dfice except, where the Legislature may prcnide lor city officers. I'here are (■ertaiii propositions which are submitted in the report of a different coinmitXee. Taxpayers are sometimes permitted and autliorized to vote on certain propositions. There is a certain qualilicatinn as lo age. .\ow. this also gives the Legislature, if new offices are created. Ilie right to fix addilioiiiil qnalificalions as to these new offces for the officers: for mslance. a niinini.' tiureau. Vou would want some particular qualifica- tions as lo llie person Imldmg Ilial ollice, and aii\ oilier new oirice, where CO.NSTITLTIO.NAL CO.WKM'IUN l,S,sy 400 a qualilicatioa lu addition to thai ot simply Ixmiii; a volfr sliouhl sci-iii to be required. The Chair put the question ou the substitute of the geullemau Ironi i.ewis & Clarke' -Mr. Carpenter and a vote being taken thi; same was declared earned. Mr. Burleigh, ol Custer: 1 move that we now rise. .\lr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 have a section here that 1 would like lo oiler. The Chairman: The Clerk will read same. The (vierk read as follows: Section 13 offered by Collins of Cascadi;: ■'ill all elections held by tin- people undi-r this constitution the person or persons who shall receive the highest number of votes shall be declareil elected." .Mr. Collins, ot Cascade: I move the adoption of the section. The motion was seconded. i'he Cliair stated the motion. Mr. Kiiowles, of i?ilver Bow: 1 would just add there the highest iium- fier of legal votes, if^aughter Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I accept that. There should be some pro- vision in tlie constitution or the law, or some place, declaring the person who receives the highest number of votes elected. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Cascade ;.\lr. Collins and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 will renew my motion. .Mr. Katon, of Park: If there is no motion before the committee 1 wish to move that the committee now rise and report back Proposition No. 11 as amended, with the recoinmendatiini to the convention that section 2 as amended be printed. The motion was seconded. .Mr. .Magmnis, of Lewis & Clarke: W by not have the whole proposi- tion printed"/ .Mr. Katon, of Park: I will accept that amendment, .Mr. Kennedy, of .Missoula: 1 think it ought to be referred to the Committee on Kngrossment first and have it properly engrossed. 1 move an amendment to that effect. The Chairman: What is the pleasure of the Committee in reference 10 the motion tliat was before the house with regard to sections 12, 13, 11 and 15? .Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I withdraw my motion. The Chairman: The gentleman withdraws his ^motion. The gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke amends the motion of the gentleman from Park. .Mr. Katon. of Park: 1 accept the suggestion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (.Mr. Maginnis if that is the question. The Chairman: The gentleman from .Missoula moves that the bill be referred to the Kngrossing Committee. .Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I move to amend the motion of the gentle- man from Park, that it be referred to the Committee on Kngrossment. .Mr. Katon, of Park: You cannot engross anything with any pro- priety until It has been passed. The Chairman: The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from .Missoula. .Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I hope this amendment will not prevail. I moved the other day that a bill be referred to the Printing Committee and from courtesy accepted the amendment from some gentle- man near me that it go to the Kngrossing Committee. The result was it delayed the matter a day. and afterwards the convention had to send it tu liie Printing Committee. 1 hope this will go direct to the Printing' t;ommittee. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from .Missoula and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park that the subject matter be reported back and printed, and a \ote being taken the same was declared carried. ■ilO PROCEEDINGS AiND DEBATES 'I'lie Cliairiiiaii: If lias lircii uiummI and .si'cdiulc'ii thai llic cniiunillr'i' do niiw rise, n-port pro^'ri'ss and ask IcaNe in sil asalii. Tlie Chair put thu qiu'stioii mi the said iiiotioii of tlie.geiilleiiiaii Irom Custer Mr. Burleighi and a xolc liciiiK laken (he same was di'dan^ii carried. IN CONVENTION. President Clark in the Chair. The Convention was called to order. Mr. Cooper, of (jallatin: Mr. President, your Coinniittee of the Wliol" liave had under consideration General Orders No. 12 with the aniendnients. The committee asks time to perfect its report. The President: The Chairman of the OHiimillec of Itie Whole reports that they have had under consideration File No. 12, Proposition No. 11. and that it has bi'en reported back with aiiiendments, with instructions that it be printed. If there be no objection the rci)(ir| ot tlii' i-ommitliM- will be received and adopted. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: 1 now move that the i-oiiven(inn adjoun;. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motinii. The President: The Chair desires to state that the time to which tip- convention adjourns is fixed for 9:30 tomorrow morning. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: Before the motion is put I would like to be excused until Monday at four o'clock. The President: The gentleman will be excused iinlil .Monday at four o'clock if there be no objection. iMr. Hartman. of (iatlatin: 1 would like to ask h'ave of absence uii'ji four o'clock, Monday afternoon. Till' PresidenI: The gentleman from Gallatin asks to be excused until Monday afternoon. If there be no objection the request will be granted. Air. Collins, of Cascade: I would like to ask for information how many members of the convention there are who are not excused. Tli(> Chairman: The Clerk will furnish the information to the gentle- man if he desires it. The question now is upon the adjournment. The members will bear in mind it is to 9:30 to which we ailjourn. T'he Chair put the question on the said motion to adjourn and a \iitr' being taken the same was tleclared carried. The convention stood adjourned until Saturday. ,luly 27tli, 1889, at 9:30 A. M. MNErEi:XTll DAY. Satui'day, July 27tli, 1889. .Moi-iiiiiy Session. The convention was called to order by tlie President at 9:30 A. M. Tlie Clerk called the roll. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. .Mr. tlershfield of Lewis & Clarke sent up a rei)orl of the Committee on .Miscellaneous Sutjjects. The President: The Chair is in reeeipt of a report nt the Clialf of thi» coniiiiillee that .Mr. I'arberry of Meagher was not present to sign the re- port which lie intends to do as soon as he returns. I presume lie can have that priMlege. He agreed to ha\(' the report .signed and presenteil on his return. I prrsume jl will be in order for him lo sign il when he ri'turiis. 'I'he I'residenI: The report may be ordered to be printed. Doi's the (Ihairman of tlnx committee desire the report read".' .Mr. Ilershifield, of Lewis iS: Clarke: No sir: it is rallier xoluminous. .Mr. (hooper, of Gallatin: I would like lo defer making the report of the Committee of the Whole until .Monday. T did not have tune to exam ine it thoroughly. 'I'tie President: If there be no objection the ^ciilleman will be al- lowed to make his report on Monday. CONb^TlTLTIO.NAL GONVE.M'IO.N l>S89 ill Mr. J. H. i'doli'. (il l»('('i- L(iilf;(': 1 move you that tlie fOiiveiitiim ro solves itsell into Committe.e ol llie \\ liole I'oi- the purpose ot considering Proposition .No. 18, (.ieneral File No. 17. The motion was seronded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman I'roi.i IJeer Lodge i.Mr. J. H. i'oole and a vote being taken the same was de I'lared carried. The Hresideiil: llie Chaii- will appoftit .Mr. Dixmi ot Silver Hnw (Uiair- man of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. l>i.\oii ol Silver Bow begged to be e.vcused. Tlie ['resident then called Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke to the Chair. I.\ CO.MMITIEE OF THE W HOLE .\!r. lli'rshfield of Lewis & Clarke in the Chair. ■J'he committee was called to' order. 'J'he Chairman: \\ hat is the pleasure of the committee on Proposi- tion i\o. iS? The Clerk will read section 1. The Clerk read section 1 as follows: .\rlicle on state institutions and [lublic buildings, .\rticle Section 1. Educational, reformatory and penal institutions, and tliose for the benefit of the insane, blind, deaf and mute, and such other institutions as the public good may require shall be established and supported by the state in such manner as may be pre- scribed by law. .Mr. \\ liitehill. of Deer Lodge: I have an amendment to offer. The Clerk read the same as follows: .\iuend section I. line two by inserting the words "soldier's home." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on said motion of the gentleman from L'eer Lodge .Mr. W'hiteliill and a vote being taken the same was do dared carried. .Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of section 1 as amended. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Sliver Bow .Mr. Rickards and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to si'Ction 1. the Clerlj read sec- tion '^, as follows: Section 2. The Legislative .Vssembly shall have no power to change or locate the seat of government of the state, but shall at its third regular session, after the adoption of this constitution pro- vide by law for submitting the question of the permanent location of the seat of government to the qualified electors of the state at the general election then next ensuing, and a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said election shall be necessary to determine the lucatiou thereof. Said Legislativi' .\ssenibly shail also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election, the question of choice be- tween the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like manner to the (jualified electors of the state at the next general election: Provided. That until the seat of government shall have been permanently located, as herein provided, th^^ temporary location thereof shall be and remain at the city of. .Mr. V\ arreii. of Silver Bow. .Mr. Chairman: I move In amend Section two by filling in the blank the word "'.\nacoiida. " The motion was seconded. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move to amend tlie suggestmu nf llie gen- tleman by inserting the word "Billings." .Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: If there is an amendment in order 1 inii\r to amend by inserting the wonts "Butte City." .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: 1 second tht- amendment. .Mr. Hreen. ot .leflerson: I move to amend by filling in the name 111 "Hiiuliler". .Mr. Clark, ot Silvm- Bnw: The first motion was to fill the blank: that IS not an amendment because it is an ellipsis that had to be filled. the fust amendment olfered w-as to insert the word "Billings" and then "Butte". So that there are only two amendments now pending, as I understand it. 412 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Chairman: Tlic Chair would he under the iiniiri'ssion that tlie first amendment put to the house would be to amend "Hutte" by insert- ing "Boulder." Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: In order to get this thini.' into shape. 1 move you that thai blank bo filled by the word "Anaconda." Mr. Browiie, of Chofeau: I offer an amendment that the words "City of i'ort Benton" be inserted. The motion was seconded. Tlie Cliau'inan: The Chair is unable to see how the Chair is going to accept tlie amendment. .Mr. .J. H. Toole, of Deer Lodge: I believe the only way would be to have a vote and then when that decision is reached to receive the amendment. Mr. .Marshall, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, the first amendment offered was that the blank be filled by the word "Anaconda." If there was no other amendment offered that would be the question. Then the gentle- man moves to amend tliat amendment by striking out .\naconda and insert Billings. That made two propositions peiuling the con\eiition, ami we hold that those are all that are properly before tlie convention until a vote is taken. It seems to me very clearly then according to the mode of proced- ure heretofore tliat the first question is to insert Billings in the place oi Anaconda. Then the question would come up as to Butte and the othi': places, it seems to me. It certainly is a fair motion to say how a blani< shall be filled. That is the first motion that was made here and it is in order. Then the first amendment was to insert Billings instead of .Ana- conda, and I understand the mode of procedure has been that there shall be but two propositions before the con\ention at the same time. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow:' Mr. Chairman on this point of order I desire to say a word. 'J'he gentleman from .Missoula takes the position that the filling of the blank by the insertion of the word .\naconda is in the form of an amendment, and that only two amendments can prevail; but I contend that the filling of the blank is not an amendment. Hero is the report; they have left this word out. Now, that is in the form of a motion. The gentleman from Custer offers an amendmenl that the word Billings be substituted. T'hat is the first amendment. The gentleman from Silver Bow moves to amend the first amendment by inserting tlie word "Butte" and that is the question now before the committee upon the motion made by the gentleman from Silver Bow, to substitute "Butte' instead of "Billings." .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 understand there is a positive rule of parliamentary law on this question of filling blanks, and while I am not flogmatical upon the proposition, I remember as stated by the Presi- dent of this convention that when it comes to filling blanks one proposi- tion after another is not an amendmenl but they stand upon separate and distinct pi'Opositions, and the vote must be taken in tlie order in which they are proposed. Hence, if I am correct about that, the first proposition would be the filling of the blank by the word ".Anaconda." Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow; 1 rise to a point of order. .My point of order is this, when a member rises to Ins feet and raises a point nf order, IS it debatable? .Mr. (vOllins, of Cascade: I miixe thai tins matter ol Idling llie blank be free-for-all, and llial llie convention vote upon it by ballot, and kee].) on \oting until the |jlace iMH'eiving the majority of xiites is voted u|>on. and that tliat place receiving the nia.jonly o\ voles shall Id! the blank. 'J'he motion was seconded. Air. .Maginnis, of Lewis iS; Clarke: .Now. 1 Impe thai we shall endeavor to go on with this conslitution and not go mlo a mailer id' this kind. which is bound to end in idiilds play. 1 do not thmk that thi' people who sent us here, any of us, had any question of this kind in mind, that it was the business of this coinenlion to locate eitli(>r the permanent or temporai'y capital of this state, and I hope that the good S(>nse of the convention will olilain and tliat we will iiol mix up either llie making or the adoption of this constitiilion wilh anytlimg of that kind, which we all know belongs to the people of .Montana to settle. It is for them to say where the seat of govi'rnmeni (d' the new state shall be located. I hope, .Mr. Chairman, that we will so amend this section that the words ".\l its third regular session" will be stri(d\eii out, and the section be amended sn Itial tin' Legislature mI its first, secnnd m- third session will CONSTITUTIU.NAL CU.WEMIO.N )889 'ii:i have lull ijowei- over this iiiiitter and .submit I lie same to the people of Montana. 1 do not think we ought to bring it into this convention: and at the end 1 hope all after the words "geiifral election" will be stricken out. The seat oi government of the Territory is fi.xed by law, and as siioii as you ha\e placed it in Ihe power of of the Legislature and the Legis- lalui'e submits it to the people, it can either be removed or changed. -Now, we cannot waste our time on this mattei', and after all, I fancy that is the conclusion we will come to. ( hoite we will not waste our time this morning in tins frivolous sort, of way. .Mr. .Marshall, of .Missoula: .Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that there IS notliuig now in the law that fixes where the first Legislature of this state sliall meet. Ihere is no obligation so far as I understand it in the Lnablmg .\ct or any other law that requires the capital to be at Helena or any other point until this convention decides that question. -Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I'lie Knabling Act says, it shall meet at the seat of government. .Mr. .Marshall, of .Missoula: The convention. .Mr. .Magmnis. of Lewis iV Clarke: \es, and the l^egislature. And, Mr. Chairman, the laws of ttie Territory prevail under that Enabling Act until they are repealed by the constitutional laws of the state. I do not think this constitutional convention should make any reference to this thing except to place it in the power of the Legislature to attend to the matter. .Now, 1 ask unanimous consent of the convention to offer the following amendment. Mr. Cooper, of (iallatm: I object. .My amendment has been ruled out of order. .Mr. .Mc.\dow. of Fergus: I ino\e that the committee do now rise and that the Chairman be instructed to report Proposition No. 18 back to the house for their immediate consideratKju. I make this motion in the in- terest of time because this Committee of the ^^'hole has taken up a great, deal of our time, and 1 can see no benefit from it. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Fergus (.Mr. .McAdowj and a division being called for the same was de- clared lost by a vote of 17 in the affirmative to 37 in the negative. The Cliairman: The Chair will submit the amendment of the gentle- man from Custer which is to insert ■'Hillings' instead of '".\naconda." .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. Chairman, in support of my motion 1 desire to say a few words only. If the capitol is to leave Helena and is not to be located permanently on wheels. 1 think Billings is the most de- sirable location ior it in the state of Montana and for the following reasons: In the first place, it is a beautiful location. It is a place where a gentle- man can go and stand erect upon both feet and look up towards heaven with all the ease necessary, instead of being compelled to stand on one foot and put the ether one against the side of a hill. (Laughteri .\nother reason is, that they have beautiful water there, the finest in the worlii, and there is no inducement, no incentive, no necessity for a man resorting to a whiskey shop to slake his thirst for fear of being poisoned with the water that percolates down tlirough the poisonous soil and the guts and gutters of the country. ,\notlier reason is, that it is located upon the banks of the beautiful Yellowstone, whose crystal waters flow past there, carrying off everything that might be impure and desirable to get rid of. Another thing is," it is not surrounded by pine knots and pine timber, in consequence of which where a conflagration might come, as has been witnessed here recently, men are deju-ived of the blessings of inhaling the pure air of heaven. Another reason is. that they have there all that IS necessary to build a capitol of the most permanent character. They have the finest quarry of stone in the world there, lying in proximity to that town. .And while they have not as many buildings as they have in somi' other localities, for instance in .\naconda or Butte or in Helena, they have time before them. T'hey have a location where they can take the stone from the quarry and build one of the most beautiful capitols in the world. I have looked the country all over. 1 have been to Butte. I happened to be there last November when they had a visitation of east wind and instead of bringing the fragrant breezes which usually com" from the east, it brought the fumes from the smelters and was enough to strangle a man. I recollect going up in the motor in the middle of the street, and although electric lights were burning with all their effulgence 41i PROCEEDINGS ANJ> DEBATES yet you could not .sec a gleam of liglit Inim either side nl tin' slii'i-i. 1 retii'ed to my bed. 1 had not been there tliii-ly mmutes belure 1 tell that some demouiaeal tiend was Itiere iii.jeetiny bmliny lime intii my lungs. 1 went to the Courthouse the next morniuy and met one or two of my tnends who suggested 1 leave the cow countn-s and dwell m that cily where gold could be obtained by reaching for i(, where copiter was so abundant that they scarcely knew what to do with it, and the silver- bearmg mountains are inexhaustible. I suggested to him — and I admit I was not feeling very well or in the best of humor, for what(!ver cuts oft the supply of air to my lungs has a tendency to irritate my otherwise amiable nature — 1 suggested to the gentleman that it was a little singu- lar that all the men I had met who hail attempted to depict to me the beauties of tliat countr\ tliry bad omUted its cardinal feature. He wanted to know what it was. Said 1 the constitution of your atmosphere. Said he, "W hat is in our afmosphei'c that you like so much?" "I was not talk- ing about my likes," said 1, "but "thDsi^ (lualities which sliould recommend It to a stranger, and esiiecialjy a citizen oi Butte." He wanted to know what it was. "Why," said 1, "it is the brimstone in it: it is the antimony in it. "Why," said he, "what is there so desirable about it?" "Why." said I. "iiotbiiig especially, but to a citizen of Butte is must be very con- soling to know that the transition from tliis world to Sheol will be so slight that you will never notice it." (Laughten Now, as to Anaconda, it has one thing to commend it. It has Marcus Daly's liotel. That is a grand thing, 1 have no doubt, and if I ever happen to gn into that country 1 will go and lake a look at it. for 1 have heard it is grander in its magnificance than the temple built liy Solomon; wliether it has an Ark of the Covenant, 1 don't know, (Laughter but I presume it has. Now, iu regard to other places, I think all of the advantages are inferior to those presented by Billings, and 1 hope that if there should be any action taken upon this question today that my amendment will prevail. I am certain that while we may be cursed for the jji-esent we will be blessed in the future, and coming generations will say. "How wise were the men who could look beyond the blandisbmenls nf lliPii- time and Inrale tlie capitnl of this state in such a beautiful place." Mr. Maginnis, of Licwis A Clarke: I nioxe. .Mr. Cliaiinuiii. that the commiltee do now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motHui ot tlie geiitlrman frum Lewis &• Clarke (Mr. Maginnis i and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of 18 in the affirmative to 32 in the negative. I'he Chairman: i'lie question recurs on the amendment of the gen- tleman from Custer, to insert Billings instead of Anaconda. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, and a division being called for tlie same was declared lost by a vote of nineteen in the affirmative to IwiMilysix in the negative. .\lr. J. iv. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I mo\i' that the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. i'he Chair put the question on the molioii of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. J. K. 'I'oolC' and a division being called for. the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty in tlir atrirmatne to thirty-two in the negative. The Chairman: 'I'he queslion now recurs on Hie inolion |o subslilule the word "Butte " instead of ".\naconda.' Mr. Hickards, of Siher Bow: .\lr. l^haiinian, I do not know that it is necessary for me to say a word in favor of my amendnienl. To the elo- (|uent speecdi of my friend from (;iister, 1 will add in adihtion lo the very many good things lliat he said about Untie that it is literally a city thai is set upon a hill and ils light cannot be hid by e\en the eloqiii'iice of the gentleman I roni Custer, nor Hie smeller fumes that he has depicted here so graphically. In the location, .Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, of tlie capito! of Montana lemporaril.v, I am really acliialed by a desire that in jts location we may fix it at that point where it will be as n(>arly as possible in the center of ttie populous districts. Unite City has all of the advan- tages that any other point that has been mentioned here unless it may be Billings in iioint of water su|iply and atmosphere; and it lias many other attrailions .superiitol at Butte City you will .serve I tie best interests of not only JUitte City liut all .Montana. .Vnit I do most sincerely hope that the ainemi- ment tliat 1 have oifered will prevail. Mr. Cl■a^■en, of Lewis iV Clarke; 1 move ihal the eomiiiillee now rise. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I desire to make — .interrupted The Chairman: The gentleman from Custer is certainly out of nrder. Tliere is a motion before the committee to rise. .Mr. Bickford. of .Missoula: I rise to a point of order. There has been no motion put to the house since the last motion that the commit- tee rise. Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, if that were the order, the committee would never rise, .\fter any intervening business It' is in order to move that the committee rise. .Mr. Hickards, of t>ilver Bow: 1 rise to a point of order. The Chairman: Tlie gentleman from Silver Bow is out of order. The Chair then put the iiueslion on Itie motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clark .Mr. Craven and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty three in the affirmative to thirty-three 11' the negative. Mr. Hickards. of Silver Bow: 1 rise now to a point of order and I would like to ask for a ruling from tlie Chair. After a motion has been made and presented to the house by a chairman and a speech has been made. in favor of it. is a motion that tlie committee rise in order? The Chairman: It is always in order. .Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, business having in- tervened since the last motion, the speech of the gentleman from Silver Bow, I move that the committee now rise. l^aughter, The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke .Mr. Maginnis and a \ote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Oeer Lodge: I appeal from the last decision nf the Chair and 1 call for a division of the committee. i'he motion was seconded. .Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: I rise to a point of order. The aentli'iiiaii who made the motion, I am satisfied, is aware that no vote on appeal can be taken from the decision of the Chair in Committee of the Whole. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I wanted to say that is one reason why I wish the committee to rise so we can go into convention and decide that point of order. i'he Chairman: The gentleman from I.,ewis & Clarke is out of order. .Mr. Craven, of Lewis i!i Clarke: 1 move that w'e reconsider th^ vote taken last, that we should rise, in which it was decided we should not rise. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The gentleman is not in order. The question now is upon the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow to substitute Butte City instead of .Anaconda. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty-four in the affirmative to thirty-three in the negative. The Chairman: The motion is now upon the substitute of the gentle- man from Gallatin. The Clerk will phrase read the substitute. The Clerk read as follows: Sulistitiite for Section 2. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to change or |ocat« the seat of government of the state, but shall at its second regular session after the adoption of this constitution provide by law for submitting the question for the per- manent location of the seat of government to the qualified electors of the state at the general election then next ensuing and a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said election shall be necessary to deter- mine the location thereof. Said Legislative .\ssembly shall also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election the ques- tion of choice between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like manner to the quali- fied electors of the state at the next general election. Provided that until 416 PROCEKDINGS AND DEBATES the seat ol' government shall have been piTinanently located as heroin provided the temporar\- location Ihei-eof shall be and remain ;il the City ol' Bozeman. The Chair put the question on the said substitute ot the t'enlleman Irom Gallatin, and a division being called for, the same was declared lost by a vote ot eigliteen in the aftirmali\e (o twenty-seven in tlu! negative. The Chairman: The amendnuMil (it Ihc gentleman linm Siher Bow IS in order. .Mr. Warren, of >Silv('r tJow: I imiM' that the wdid llclrna be suli- stituted. j\lr. Collins, of Cascadi': There was a niolinn from the gcntli'inan fniui Cholcau County made quite a while ago. The Chairman; That motion was ruled out at the time. The question now recurs on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow to substitute tlelena for Anaconda. The Chair put tlie question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow and a division being called for the same was declared lost b>" a vote of twenty in the affirmative to thirty-five in the negative. Mr. J. Iv. Toole, ot Lewis A Clarke: 1 move that the comnnttee .Id now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (.Mr. J. K. Toole) and a division being called for the same w'as declared lost by a vote of twenty-four in the affirmative to twenty- seven in the negative. The Chairman: Tin- question imw recurs on Ihe substilutc iif tie- word "Anaconda' in the blank proposition. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, is there a question before the house? Mr. Browne, of Choteau: I I'cnew my motion that Fori Benton b" substituted. Mr. Buford, of Madisnu: I move to suhslituti' the words ■'Nirginia City"' for Anaconda. The Chairman: The motion is out of order. The question is now on thi' motion of the gentleman from Choteau that the words "Tort Benton' be substituted in place of Ihe word ".\nacouda." Tlie t;hair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Choteau I.Mr. Browne) and a division being called for the same was de- clared lost by a \ote of twenty-four in the affirmative to twenty-seven in the negative. The Chairman; The question now recurs upon the original motion ot' the gentleman from Silver Bow to insert "Anaconda." Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, I move you that ttii' committee rise. The Chairman: 'i'lie question before thi^ house is the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow. that the word ".\nacoiida ' be inserted in the proposition. .Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge; 1 h;i\e a pioposition that I wish to stale in relation to this capitol question and 1 lia\ e concluded tliat this Is as opportune a time as I will get. I want to say in tlie first place that I came here, and my constituents came here, willing to abide by the deci- sion of this convention wherever they may see fit to locale the state capi- tol. and also willing to accejit the verdict of the people whene\er it goes bef(n'e thi-m at an etectuni. I want to present this thing to tlie members of the convention in a business light. I want to fireseiit it in the shape of urging as one (d' the claims we would put forth in favor of our city of Anaconda, and as a matter of economy to the state, that I have this propo- sition here to make to this convention, and I am ready to hack il up. If it IS the will (d' the member's of this convention, and their verdict, io temporarily locate the capitol at our city, we will agree Io furnish to the state ample, commodious (luarlers for all state officers, ample and com- modious slate officers for the Legislature, free of charge to tlie state, until such time as the vot(> of Ihe peo|)le shall decide wliere Ihe permn- ment location id' Ihe capitol .shall h(>. I ilo not make this in any spirit of buncombe. I am serious and earnest, and ready to baidi it up in any way that this cfinvention may see fit to reqiiii'e. I think it will make a matter of five or ten thousand dollars to the state and economy is sometlung Hint lins lieeii dwell upon here a good ilea! in our deliherations so far. CO.\Si'lTLTIf).\AL CO.NVK.NTION 1889 417 and as a matter it seems to me it oiit;lil to be taken into serious considera- tion by every member of tliis convention. It is a matter of five or ten lliousand dollars a year to ttie state over any otiier proposition tliat Jias yet been made. 1 malie tins in all candor and seriousness and place it before the ciiun eution now for llieii' di'lilieralinn and .judynieul and verdict. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: The geiitlt!inan is generous and they are able to do it at Anaconda. They have a wonderful city there, but I am stoutly opposed to this convention resolving itself iido a begging committee. I think the Territory of .Montana is abundantly able to provide quarters for all of its public officers and the i--e'^islative Assenitjly, and while 1 commend the generosity of the gentleman from Anaconda, and 1 know it emanates from a good and generous heart, yet I do not think it would be received by the people of this territory as compluneutary or as du'ectly in the course of true economy. I believe in true economy, and we are gomg lo practice it here, and after having resolved upon that course we can certainly afford to pay for our public buildings. I have never been in Anaconda. 1 do not know anything about it, but 1 have been as near il as Butte and 1 got enough of it as far as 1 travelled. Anil here, by the way. 1 desire to make a little one-sided remark for the benefit of iiiy illustrious friend, whi said that Us lights would not be obscured by the gentleman from Custer County. It is not necessary; they are already ob- scured by the odoriferous fumes which emanate from its furnaces. The Chair put the question on the insertion of the word "Anaconda" in Section 2 of Proposition .No. 18. A division being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of thirlylwo in the affirmatne to twenty- four in the negati\e. Mr. .Maginms of Lewis & Clarke: ISow, Mr. Chairman. 1 nioxe to strike out m that section all after the words "general election". The motion was seconded. .Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: .Mr. Chaiiniaii I move thai the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. W arren and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IX C<>.NVi;.\TI().\ President Clarke in the Chair. The convention was called to order. .Mr. Hershfield of Lewis lV: tMarke reported from the Committee of the Whole. The President: The Chaii'inan of the Committee of the Whole reports that the committee has risen and asks leave to sit again. .Mr. Magmnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move that when the convention adjourn it adjourn to four o'clock on .Mondax. the motion was seconded. .Mr. Durfee of Deer Lodge: Before the convention adjourns I would like to ask leave of absence until Tuesday afternoon. The President: If there be no objection the gentleman from Deer Lodge will be granted leave of absence until Tuesday afternoon. It IS moved and seconded that when the convention adjourn it adjourn lo meet on .Monday at four o'clock. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke -Mr. .Magmnis and a xotc being taken the same was de- clared carried. .Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: 1 move we adjourn. .Mr. J. K. 'i'oole of Lewis & Clarke: I move that the convention now resolve itself into Committee of the Wholi- for the consideration of Proposition .No. 18. The motion was seconded. The President: The question is on the motion to adjourn. 418 PROCEEDINGS AM) I )K BATES The Chair put lln' qucsliaii hh iiic indlimi nT the jii'iilli'inaii li'oiii Deer Lodge '.Mr. J. R. iVinle and a division heiiig called lor the same was declared carried by a Mite of thirty-two in the alTirnialix c In twenty- lour in the negative. 'J'ho convention stood adjourned unlil .Mnnauv, .July l'SHIi, 1889. at 4 i: M. t\vi:mii:th da^. .Monday, July 29tli, 1889. .Mli'rnoon Session The convention was called lo nnlei- at i l\ M. by the Pr(>sident. The Clerk called the roll. .Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: At the request of .Mr. Dyer of Silver Bow, 1 would state that it is impossible for him to be liere until tomorrow. I ask lor him leave of absence until then. The President: If there be no oljji'clioii leave of absence will bf granted. .Mr. Burleigh ot Custer. .Mr. .Middletuii my colleague e.\|)ecled to re- tui'n today, and requested me to ask leave of absence for him until to- morrow when be will return. Mr. President: If there be no objection, leave of aliseiice will be granted to the gentleman from truster. .Mr. Bullard of .Jefferson also requested leave of absence foi' (lie day, which will be granted if there be no objection. The Cliaplam (d'fered prayer. The Clerk read the journal ol I he pri'\ioiis day. Mr. J. Iv. Toole of Lewis & Clarice; I desire in present a coniniuiucatioii and ask to have it read for the iiiforination of the convention. The President: Tlie communication nffei'ed by Ihr gentleman from ■ Lewis & Clarke will be read by the (Jlerk. The Clerk read as follows: Helena, .Montana. Jul\ ."dli, 1889. To the honorable members id' llie Constitutional Ciin\ fiition, Helena. Montana. The Aloiitana Society of Civil Kiiguircrs would respectfully repre- sent to your honorable bddy that tlie subject of irrigation is now as- suming tlie greatest importance to all the people of .Montana: that in the near future there will be constructed large and e.xtensive reservoirs, ir- rigating canals and other iiydraulic works of great magnitude requiring a great amount of engineering skill and e.xperience, and that the lack of competent prel'essional advice may lead to great loss of capital and life, as has been demonstrated m this territory in the past and more recently in the terrible disaster at Johnstown, Pennsylvania: and the requi- site safety can only be obtained llirough ttie in.spection of the plans for all such works, aiul I he works tliemsehcs, by conipetent engineers. Thai in other states, parlicularl\- in Calilnrnia ani)t the amendment. The Chair put the question on Ihr motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. ',Mr. J. i\. Toole and a xnte being taken, the same was declared carried. .Mr. tlooper of (jaltalin sent Ufi a repurt ol the C(imiiiiltee of the Whole. Ttie President: i'he report nf the Cdiiimidee of tlie Whole on Prop- osition .\o. 14 will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Repoil (if the Committee of the Whole on Proposition .No. 14, Rights of t^uffrage: Mr. President: Your Committee of the Whole to whom was referred Proposition .No. 14, General File .No. 12 on Rights of Suffrage, with Reso- lution .No. 12. General T'lle .No. 8 on Suffrage, beg leave to report the same back to till- convention with the following amendments which the com- mittee recommetid be adoiiled. \our coinmitlee would slate that in the amendmenls offered refeience to numbers of tines and sections are such as appear in printed hill. Strike out all of Section 2 and insert the following: Section 2. Every male person of the age of twenty-one years oi' over possessing the fol- lowing iiualifications shall be entitled' to vote at all general elections, i-'irst, he shall be a citizen of the Lliuled Slates; Second, he shall have resided in the slate one year miinedialel>- preceding the election at which he offers to vote and in the county, town or precinct such time as may be prescribed by law: provided, first, that no person convicted of a felony shall have the right to vote unless he has been pardoned by the proper pardoning power. Provided, second, that nothing herein contained shall be construed to deprive any pei'son of the right to vote who has such right ai, the lime of the adoiition of this constitution. Provided, that after the expiration of five years from the time of the adoption of this constitu- tmn no persons, except citizens of the I'niled States, shall have the right to \ole. Strike out in line two. Section 7, the word "I wo" and insert the word "one"'. Strike out all of Section 9. .-\mend section 10 by inserting in line one after the word '"shaU" the words "have the power to" and insert after the woi'd "pass"' in same line the words "a registration and sucli other" and after the word "law" in said line the words "as may be necessary". .\mend Section 11 by inserting after the word "hold" in the first line the words "the office of County Superint(>ndent of Schools or". .\lso strike out first seven words of Section 11, '"the Legislative Assembly may pass laws allowing", and insert after the word "amendment "' in the same line the words "shall be eligible"; and strike out the words "the right". Strike out Sections 12, 13, 14, 15, 10, and 17 and substitute there- for the following section. Section II. Any person qualified to vote at general elections in this state shall be eligible to any office therein ex- cept as otherwise provided in this constitution, and sub,ject to such addi- tional qualifications as may be. prescribed by the Legislature hereafter created. Insert additional section as follows: .\ssembly for city offices, and offices. Section 12. In all elections held by the people under this constitution the person or persons who shall receive the highest num- ber of legal votes shall be declared elected. riie committee also recommend that resolution No. 12 acted upon un- tavorably m the committee be stricken from the file. The committee fiirlhi-r "recommend that Proposition No. 14 as amended by them be printed. (Signed) WALTER COOPER, Chairman. Mr. Burleigh of Custer. I hope that the recommendation of the com mittee in regard to printing this report will prevail. It seems to me im- portant it should be printed so that each one will have it on his desk. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention. 420 PROCEEDINGS AM) DKBAIKS Mr. Burleigh of Custpr: I underslaiid Irbni the Chairman nf itic Cmn- niittce of the \\ hole that it has been printed, if that be tlie case, and lu consequence of the absence of .Mr. I\lc.\dow who desires to offer an anirml- nient to it, and who by reason of his physical infirmities is unable lo b:: here today, 1 ask that the consideration of the bill be deferred until tomorrow, and i make as a motion that the report of the committei' be received and that the fuillicr I'onsideralion of it be deferred until |o- morrow. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cus- ter (Mr. Burleigh) and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: ,1 ask unanimous consent to make a report. The fresident: The report of the Chairman of the Committee on Leg- islative Departments will be read tiy the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Resolution !S'o. i. by Watson uf l-'ergus. July 9th referred to Printing Committee. July 1.5th reported back with out recommendation and placed on General File No. .5. July referred to Committee on Legislative Departments. Mr. President, your Committee on Legislative Departments have had the w-ithin resolution under consideration and have directed me to re- port the same to the convention with the recommendaticm that the same do not pass (Signed) J. K. I'iJOLE. Chairman. July 29th, 1889. The President: What is the pleasure of the coinentnui concerning this report. Mr. Burleigh of Custer. 1 mo\e tlial the report bi' adopted. The motion was seconded. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I think under the rules that slimild go further and be considered in Committee of the Whole. The President: The report will take its course and be considered in Committee of the Whole. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: Mr. President. I move tliat Proposition .N'o. 18, General File No. 17 be made the special order of business for Wednesday morning at 10 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis lV Clarke: I move to amend, .Mr. President, that a further consideration of Proposition No. 18 be postponed until after the consideration and the final passage of all propositions now' pending intended to be embodied in the constitution of the State of Montana. The amendment was seconded. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move to amend by providing that Proposi- tion No. 19 shall be made the special order for the day after tomorrow at 10 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The President: The Chair is of the opmioii that being sub ject matter entirely different from the original motion the gentleman's motion is hardly admissible in the shape of the amendment. The question now is ujion the amendment (d'fered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke that the consideration of Proposition No. 18, (ieneral File No. 17 be post- poned until after the consideration of all subjects wliicli are to lie in corporated in the constitution. Mf. J. K. Toole of Lewis cV (Clarke: I desire to say a word or two in regard to the amendment which 1 have offered. The President: The Chair would state to the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke that this being a molmn which implies the suspension of the rules, is not debatable, and it will have to be received without debate. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I move to amend the nicition which I made, Mr. President, tn post[ione llie consideration of this prop osition No. 18 until the second ilay belore tlie tune which this convention shall fix for its final adjournment. The President. If there lie no nhjection this amendnienl will be re- ceived in lieu of the previous amendment of the gentl<>man. The ques- tion then before the convention is tliat tlie niotimi of tlie f.'enlleman from lleer Lodge be amended that tlie consideratioii of File No. 17 I'rnposition CONSTITLTIO.VAI. Cc ).\VK.\TH ).\ IS«i) 421 .\o. 18 be postponed until the seeoml day previous to ttie final ndjouiii- nien of the Constitutional Convention. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I desn-e to admit a parlianientaiy niquM'y, does that involve a suspension of the rules? As I understand It. .Ml-. President, any matter whieh is placed ui)on the general lUe does not eome up for consideration in the Coniinitlee of the \\ hole as a matter ol course, hut is subject to he taken up at the pleasure of the convention or the comniiltee. If this he true and the (ieneral Order is not to he taken up for consideration in the order in which they are filed, but that it is subject to tlie Committee of the Whole for their consideration at their pleasui-i' then I submit that this proposition does not involve a chaniri" or modification of the rule. I'he President: 1 he Chair would suggest to the genlleman that e\eiy proposition which is made a special order requires a two-third vote, and a suspension of the rules. .Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis >S; Clarki': Does the Chair hohi that any prop- osition which involves the suspension of the rules is not debatable? I'he President: That is the rule. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, that the consideration of Proposition .No. 18 General i-ile .\o. 17 be postponed until the si'cond ilay prior to the day set foi- the adjournment of the convention and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I now move that Proposition No. 19 th-' report of the Committee in regard to Legislative Departments, be taken up on \\ ednesday at 10 o'clock, for consideration. i'he Presiilent: There is a question iiending before the convention. I'he question before the convention is upon the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge to make General File No. 17. Proposition No. 18 a special order for Wednesday at 10 o'clock. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: .Mr. President, the Committee of the W'hol ■ reported to the convention that they had thai file under consideration and asked for further time. I ask as a parliamentary inquiry, will this motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge require a two-thirds vote? The President: It requires a two-thirds vote to make any proposi- tion a special order for any hour. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: 1 move to amend by making this a special order for the third day before the final adjournment of this con vention. I'he Motion was seconded. 'the Chair stated the motion. .Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: On that motion I demand the ayes and nays. .Mr. J. H. Toole of Deer Lodge: The convention has set no day for final adjournment at present and it seems to me that the amendment is indefinite. It seems to me in addition that the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke is not in order. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I believe that that is certain whicli i- capable of being rendered certain, and this convention will fix the day lor the final adjournment of the convention before it does adjourn. The President: The Chair is of the opinion that the time will be of such a definite character as may be considered to be in order. If there he no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal on the mo- tion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to make the consideration of Tile .No. 17 a special order for 10 o'clock of the thii'd day preceding the final adjournment of the convention. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: I rise to a point of order. The Committee of the \\ hob' upon i^aturday had this matti'r under consideration and the (Chairman of the committee was instructed to report to the convention the action of the committee anti asked for further time. .Now. my point of nrdfr IS this, that it is in the hands of the Committee of the \Vhole. and that the action of the Committee of thi' Whole has precedence. That it IS a higher motion than that to make this a special order, and until the (Chairman of that committee reports it is not actually before the conven- tion. The Chairman of the committee had only reported verbally, and had not written its final report from the Cmnmittee of the Whole, and .so the matter is not before the convention al this time. 422 PROCEKDINO!^ A Mi I )KBATE8 I 111' I'lrsidi'iil : llir Ctiair is ol the opinion thai the Coinniitli^c nl Uii' \\ iioli- IS the cri'atuic i\( the coinoiition and su|js(n'vipnl to i! in cM-ry way: tliat thi> convention can take action upon any suljject no niattei- wlial may have been done in Committee of llie Wliole. 'the (;ierl< will call tin' i'oli and tlie ayes and nays will be entered on the journal on tlie motmii ot Ihe genlleman troiii Lewis A; Clarke. The Clerk called Ihe roll. Tbe vote stood as follows: Ayes — Hreeii. Browne, Hutord. Hwi'iis. A. !•'.: Burns. A. J.: Burns. Kdward, Cardwell, (Carpenter. Caubx. Chessman, Conrad. Craven, Gibson. Gillette. Goddard, (irnves. Hammond. Hecshtield, HoIjsoii. Joyes, Maginnis. IVUiy.g'er, .\tuth. Hotwitl. 'I'oole. Jos. K.— 25. Says — Aiken. Bicktorct, Burleijib, Callaway, Collins, Cooper. Couiiiicy. IJixon, IXirfee, Harlman. t^laskell. Hatch, Hickman, Hogan. Joy, Kennedy. Knowles, Ivohrs, Loud, Luce, .Marshall, Mitchell, Myers, I'arberry, Rams- dell. Reek, Robinson. Rickards. t^argent. Schmidt, Stapleton. Toole. J. R.; Warren, Watson. W'hitehill, Winston, Witter, Mr. l^resident— 38. Absent: Brazlelon, Bollard, Dyer, t'^aton. Fields, (iaylord. Kanouse, iMiippenberg, Marrion, McAdow. .Middletoii, Webster — 12. The Chair announced Ihe vole and declared the motion ot the gentle- man from Lewis tV (Marke tost. The Bresident: riie question now recurs upon tlie original motion to make I'ile .No. 17. Proposition No. 18. a special order for 10 o'clock Wewnesday morning. The Chair put thi' ouestion on I tic said motion and a vole being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that Proposition .No. lit relating to the Legislative Depailnicnl be made the special order for We(hii\sday niornmg at 10 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair stal,ed the motion. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: 1 would like to ask before lliat motion is put, is iiol this proposition to be tiled tor general orders? The I'resuieiit: It. has been printed and placed upon llie file and is now lo he taken up m the (lommittee of the Whole. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis iK: Clarke: W bat is the tune for wbich it is asked lo be made a special oi'der? The President: 10 o'clock on Wednesday moriimg. Mf. Warren, of Sitxcr Bow: 1 demand the ayes and nays. 'ihe I'resident: If liiere be no objection the ayes and nays will be placed on the journal. The Clerk calle, and lli(> rules requiring a two lliiids Note lo carry Ihe motion. Ihe motion was declared lost. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & (llarke: i move that the coiiventioii re- solve itself into Committee of Ihe Whole for the coiisideralioii of Propo- sition ,No. 19. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Warren, of SjImm- liow: I mo\ e to amend by taking up Proposi- tion -No. 18. The amendment was seconded. Tbe Presiilent: The queslioii belore llie convention is u|ion I be amendment offered by the gentleman I rom Silver Bow lo the motion i>t Ihe gentleman Irom Lewis «.V Clarke. Mr. .Magnmis, of Lewis iS: Clarke: 1 call lor the ayes aiiil na\s. c.o.Nsrm iKi.NAi. cii.w i:.\ rioN issg ii:j Till' Prosiilenl: If IIii'M' dh im nliji'ili'in Hii' ayes and iia\s will In; ciitt'i'cd on ihf journal. Tlio Clerk called the roll. Tile \ote stood as follows: Ayes — AiUen, Hreen. Callaway. Courlney, Dixon, Durfee, Goddard. Hartman, Haskell, Hateti, Joy, Kennedy, Knowles, Kolirs, Hanisdell, Heek. Hdlnnsou. 8art;enl. Schmidt. Slaplelon. i'oole. J. R.; Warren. Watson, W hitelnll. Winston, Witter, Mr. President— :i7. .Nays — Browne. Bicktoiii. isutord, Burleigh. Burns A. F.. Burns. A. 1.. Burns. J-^dward: Cardwell. Carijenter, Cautiy. Chessman. Collins. Cnnrad. Cooper. l'.raven. (.iitison. Gillette. Graves. Hainiiioiid. Herslifield. HicUiiiaM. Hohson. Hogan. Joyes. Loud. Luce. Magninis. .Marshall, May)-'i'r, .Mitchi'll, .\lulli. Myers. Harberry. Rolwitt. HicUards. Toole. Jos. 1\. — 3(i. .Vbsent: Brazleton. Bullard. Dyer. 1-Jatoii. Fields. Gaylord. Kanouse, Knippenberg. .\larrioii. .McAdow. .Middleton. Webster — 12. Ttie Chair announced the vote and declared the amendment lost. Mr. W arren, of Silver Bow: I move to amend by taking up l'roi)osi lion :\o, 24, Article on Municipal Corpoi'atious and Officers. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis Ot Clarke: I withdraw my motion. Mr. Kennedy, of .Missoula: 1 move that the convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of giMieral orders as I hey appear upon the file. The motion was seconded. The President: There is a question pending on the motion offered by the gentb'man from Silver Bow to amend the motion of thi' gentleman Irom Lewis tS; Clarke that has lieen withdrawn. Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis iS; Clarke: 1 move ttial the convention go into Cominittei' of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition No. 10. Gen- eral File .No. 4, on Executne 1 )eparliiieiits. The motion was seconded. Thi' Chair |iut the question on the said iiintion id Ihr genlleman from Lewis iV Clarke .Mr. .Maginnis and a vnie bem^; taken the same was di'clared carried. The President: The conxenlion is now resolved into Committee of the W hole for the consideration of Proposition No. 10, General File No. 4, article on Executive Departments. The urntlrman from Cascade ,.Mr. Collins will please take the Chair. IN CO.MMITTEK UF THE W HOLE. .Mr. Collins of Cascade m the Chair. I'he committee was called to order. Tlie Chairman: We have for our consideration Proposition .No. 10. General File -No. 4. The first section will be read. The (;ierk read section 1 as follows: Section I. The Executive iie partnienl shall consist of a Governor, Lieutenaiit(;overnor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer. State Auditor and Superintendent of Public In- struction, each of whom shall hold his office for four years or until his successor is elected and qualified, beginning on the first Monday of Janu- ary next succeeding his election, except that the terms of office of those who are elected at the first election shall begin in accordance with the Act of Congress, known as the Enabling Act. approved February 22. 1889. and shall end on the first Monday of January. 1893. The officers of the Executive Department, excepting the Lieutenant-Governor, shall during their terms of office reside at the seat id" (jovernment where they shall keep the public records, books and papers. Ihey shall perform such duties as are prescribed in this conslitution and by the laws of the stale. The State iVeasurer shall not |)(> eligible to his office for the succeeding term. There belli'; nii ameiiilmeiil to section I the r.lerk read section 2. is fellows: Section 2. I'he officers provided for in section 1 of this article shall be elecled by the qualified electors of the state at the time ami placo of voting for members of the Legislative Assembly, and the persons re- spectively having the highest iiumbi'r of votes for the office voted for shall be i'lected: but if no two or more shall have an equal and the highest number of votes for anyone of said offices, the two houses of the Legisla- tive .Assembly at its next re^-ular session shall forthwith by joint ballot elect one of such persons for said idfice. The returns of election for th" officers nami'd in section I shall he made in such manner as may be pre- 42i PRUCEiiDINGS AMJ DEBATES si'i'ilii'il by l;i\v, and all cnntcsted elcclnms oT the samp, uIIht lliaii pru Milcil l(ir in this si'ctioii, shall be deteriiiiiiL'd as may be prescribed by law. Ml', Wiiisloii, of Ueer I^odge: I miiye to sirilve out the word "no" in liiir lour. It IS a misprint. U does not iiiaki- sfiisi'. Tlie motion was seconded. The Ctiair stated tlie motion. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis i*t ClarKr: llial is a iiiispriiil. Wr will .jn>t strike it out by consent. The Cliairnian: If there be no objccliiin the word will \>r slrickcn oul. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I mo\ e In amend m line ttiree alter the wiiril "of ' and before the word "votes' by inserting the word "leyal." I'lie molioii was seconded. Tlie Chair stated I he motion. -Mr. Kobinson. of Deer Lodge: The woids "number of votes" implies legal ^■oles, and cannot he construed in any other way. The Uhairman: The Chair understaiuls that the word vote certainly means a legal vote. i\lr. Kennedy, of Missoula: There has beni a suggestion adopted — (interrupted;. The Chairman: 'fliere Is iiolhing before the committee. The' Clerk w ill read section o. tlie Clerk read section 3 as follows: Section 3. .No jjerson shall bn eligible to the office of Governor, Lieutenant (iovernor. or Superintendent of Public tnstruction unless he shall have attained the age of thirty years at llie time of his election, nor to the office of Secretary of Slate. State .\uditor, or State Treasurer, unless he shall have attained the age of twenty-five years, nor to the office of Attorney General, unless he shall have attained the age of thirty years and have been admitted to practice 111 the Supreme Court of the state, or 't'erritory of Montana, and be in good standing at the time of his election. In addition to the qualifica- tions above described, each of the officers iiameii shall be a citizen of the Lnited Slates, and have resided within the stale or territory three years next [U'eceding his election. There being no amendineni id section 3, the Clerk read section i as fol- lows: Section 4. The Governor, Secretary of Slate, State Auditor, Treas- urer, Attorney General and Supermteiidenl of l^ublic Instruction, shall quarterly as due. during their continuance in office reci>ive for their ser\- ice compensation which is fixed as follows: Governor, 1^'ive thousand dollars per annum: Secretary of State, three thousand dollars per annum: Attorney General, three thousand dollars per aiinuni; State Treasurer, three thousand dollars per aniiiun: State Auditor, three thousand dollars per annum: Superintendent of Public Instruction, two thousand fiM' hundred dol lars per annum. The Lieutenant Govei'ttor shall receivi" the same per dii'iii as may be provided by law, for the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, to be allowed only during the sessions of the Legislative .\sseinbly. The compensations enumerated shall be m full for all services by said officers resiiectiveiy rendi'red in any official caiiacity or employment whatex'er during their respective terms of olfice. No officer named in this section shall receive, for Ihe ijerforinance of any official duly, any fee for his own use, but all tees fixed by law for the performance by either of them of any official duty shall be collected in advance, and deijosited witti the State Trea.s- urer quarterly to the credit of the state. No officer nienlioned in this section shall be eligible to or hold any other public office, except regents of the Stale L'niversity, during his term of office. Provided, however, the Legislative Assembly may provide for the paynnml of mileage to Ih:' Go\ernor. Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of Stale. .Mlorney (Jeiieral anil Superintendent of Public Instruction while traM'ling willim the stale in the perlormance of official duties. .\Ir. Maginnis, of Lewis iV: Clarke: Mr. Cliairnian, the Comiiutlee on F.ducalion have made thai, "members of the State Hoard of Education" instead of "regents of Ihe Slate llniversity." <;orisequently the (lonimiltei^ on Executive Departmeiils want il lo conlorm to the report of the (lommit- lee nil I'^ducation. CONSTITLTKI.NAL CO.NVK.NTION 1889 52.') TlK' Cliairiiian: If there be no objcL-tioii that change will be made. Insert "t^tate Board of Kducation' instead of ""ivgenls of the !?ta(e Uni- versity." If there be no objection the aniendnienl will be inserted. .Mr. Goddard, of \ello\vstone: I wish to offer an amendment to tlie section that has just been read by inserting in the first line at the be- ginning of the section "until otherwise [irovided by law." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis i!i: Clarke: I do not know that 1 particularly care to oppose the motion, but I want the committee to understand exactly what it means. In the Committee on Executive Deparnients we had under discussion the question as to whether we should absolutely fix the salari;'s or whether we should leave it at the discretion of the Legislature to rais'* them or lower them, and the committee decided that we should fix them in the constitution. .\ow. if I understand the amendment of the gentleman. It provides that the Legislature shall have the power hereafter to fix them. iNow, the Committee on Executive Departments, I think, have no opinions to urge upon the committee in reference to it. but will leave it to a vote of the committee whether they shall fix tliem as we have fixed them in the constitution, or whether they shall be left with the Legislature. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I am in favor of the amendment. I do not believe m making anything so inflexible. Changes and circumstances here within a few years may render the salaries entirely inadequate. I believe they are not sufficient today. Hence, I am in favor of leaving it in the power of the Legislature when .Montana shall increase in population and the duties of those offices become more onerous that they may have the [jower to increase them. I do not look for any decrease because :\Ion- tana will never go backwards. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: .\s 1 have said, the committee has no choice in the matter, but I think that if the amendment prevails there ought to be an additional amendment as a safeguard and that is that the salary of no officer shall be changed during his term. The committee stand in favor of having the salaries as they are in the consiitution. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I am entirely in favor of sustaining the report of the committee. I think the compensation is adequate and if any gentleman finds that he can make a little more at something else than he can in serving the public, he can either balance it up with patriot- ism or love of duty, or he can wait and go at something else. I am op- posed to giving any man work against his W'ill. and if he can make any more at any other position let him resign. .Mr. Goddard. of Yellowstone: In comparing the article on judiciary, I see that one of the sections in that article fixes the salaries of ttie Supreme Court and the "District .ludges until Ihe Legislature should fix them. 1 see no reason why that rule should not apply to this bill under consiileration as well as in the bill on the judiciary. .\ow, it may be true hereafter that the. salaries mentioned in this article will he too largr. Then, in order to change them it would take a constitutional amendment. I am not in favor of incorporating anything in the constitution which it may be necessary to change hereafter by a constitutional amendmeni. which we can just as well provide for in the constitution now. Therefore, I hope the amendment which I have offered will prevail. In relation to the suggestion made by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke that there should be a provision there that the compensation of the officers should not be increased or diminished during tlie term of office. 1 am in accord with that and believe that that should hi' inserted in line nine of this section. .Mr. Luco. of Gallatin: T would like lo know what this amendmeni IS and how Ihe section would read".' The Chairman stated the amendment foi- thf information of tin' gen- tleman from Gallatin. The Chair put the question on the said motion of tlii' gentleman frnni \el|ROGEEUI.\Uls AM) DEBATES -\lr. Hi'i'd. 1)1' Di'ci- l.iidyc: Hclure tlii' iimlion is put I luulil likp to c'plaiii lliat llun ol'lR'i' of SiipiMiiitonik'iil, ol' I'ublii' Iiislructinii .seems to bv a Vi'iy important oltii-c, and I do not understand wtiy tliei'c .sliould be any distu-iinination in providing lor tlie payment of that office. .\ll the olliers receive three thousand doltai-s. If is an important office. It re- quires a man of intelligence and education to fill that office. Mr. Kobinson. of Ueer Lodge: 1 am opposed to that, and fnig witli tlie State Legislatur(>; but the very act of making that seclKui llexible and leaving tlie whole tiling to the Legislature would seem to indicate that the c(nnniittee ought not lo go any further. I'lie old constitution fixed It at two Itiousand dollars and we fix it nt Iweny five liuiidred dollars, and I hope Hie coiu eiit mn will slaiid ti\- Hie ccnnmilli^e willioiil any further debate. Ihe (Ihair put Hie question on Hie amendment offereil by the geii- tleiiiiiii Irom DeiM- Lodg'e (Mr. Heek^ and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Air. .Magimiis. id' Lewis Clarke: .Now, Mr. Cliairman. in line nine. Ill nrder III niai^e the section conlnriii tn lln' aiiii'iulmenl alreadN adupled. CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VK.NTION 1889 527 1 move to insert alter the word "oftice" the words "and the salary of no ollicial shall be nicreased during his term of office." I am sure none (d them wUI have to he cut down. .Mr. iiiekards. of Silver Bow: I would like to ask the gentleman if we have not already in some bUl that we have adopted made the same provision? Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: It would innu' m right here, and the Commdtee on Revision can strike il oul in any other place it may aiipi'ar. as surplusage. .Mr. Craven, of Lewis .*>: Clarke: 1 am lieartUy in accord with the udent of the proposition, but it seems to me there is no use of insi'ding d lu this article. Section 31. Proposition .No. 19, legislative departments, ileals with tins subject in a general way. .Mr. .Magmnis, of Lewis I'c Clarke: We have not adopted that yet. -Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: But it seems to me it is as well where it IS. Sec. 31 of the article on Legislative Departments reads: "E-Xcept as otherwise provided in this constitution, no law shall extend the term of any public officer, or increase or diminish his salary or emoluments after his election or appointment.' It seems to me that that covers tlie whole tiling and is a general proposition. .Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis iS: Clarke: lln' commdlee on revision can strike that oul. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman fioiii Lewis ..V: Clarke {Mv. .Maginnis , and the same was declared carried. .Mr. Hobinson, of Deer Lodge: I move to amend section four by strik uig out the word "five" after the word "governor" in line three, and insert in lieu thereof the word "three." .Mr. ilershfield. of Lewis ^ Clarke: I mnvi- to amend that by insm-ling ^vj.odo nistead of .$3,tK»0. .Mr. Luce. S; Clarke: I think thai is ample salary for the governor id' the new state of .Montana, and furthermore, we are not a rich state yet; our assessable property has not arrived at a very enor- mous sum. and we should not give any princely salaries to our officials: It is unrepublican and it is impolitic, and 1 trust my motion will prevail. -Mr. Hickards. of Silver Bow: 1 want at tins time to enter my protest against any scheme that seems to prevail here to adopt a schedule of salaries that has tlie appearance of being niggardly. I don't believe in entering upon statehood that we can afford to place the salaries of some of these high olfices at such a point that none but the wealthy and the bloated bondholders, as we sometimes si)eak o\ tliem disrespectfully, can aspire to Ihein. i.\pplause I am opposed to that principle. 1 believe m fixing the schedule of salaries for our slate offices we ought to fix them at such a figure that the poorest and most honorable and honest men (d .Montana can aspire to fill those offices without making a sacrifice. .\pplause I hope this amendment will not prevail. I hope the original proposition will not prevail. I am in favor of adopting the report as it conies from the hands of the committee, and especially in view of what the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke -Mr. Magiimis has already said. Iliat we have already adopted this section so as to leave it in the hands ol future legislatures. 1 tliink we can safely lea\i' il there, and therefore 1 hope this amendment will be voted down. The Chairman: There are two amendments bef(U'e the committee, one to strike out and insert .$3,500. and the oiher to strike out and insert ^■•i.tKIO. riie question is upon the last amendment. -Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis \ Clarke: I withdraw Ihe amendmenl ol ■'?3.5()(-l, and accept the amenflment of the gentleman from (iallatin countv .Mr, Luce of ?4,000. The Chaii' put the question on the amendment ol Mr. Luee of Hallatm, and ttie same was declared lost. .Mr. Joyes, of Jefferson: I move lo amend by striking out and insert- ing ))vi.o00.' t'hi' motion was seconded. 428 PROCEEl)I.N(iS AM) DKHAIKS I'lic C.liair pill llii' (|Ui'sliiiii (III llii' aMiMiilmi'iit nf IIh' ,:;i'nlli'in:ia li-diii Ji'lli'i'snii .Mr. Joyi'.s ami llic same was dcclan'ii lost. .\lr. Hickman, iil' Madison: I would like to ask tlu' I'liainiuin dt lti.' i-niiunittce what, he is going to do with the Jjoutpnant Govei'nor? .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: We provide that he shall leeeive the amount that the speaker of the House receives. .Mr. Hickman, of Madison; Suppose tlie (iovernor should be absent from the state? .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis A: Clarke: \\ hcne\er lie ads as (invernor he receives the Governor's salary. .Mr. Callaway, of Madison: This is a mailer of phraseology the whoh' thing, bul it seems to me in going before tin' committee this amendnieni should lie made: In line 12 in place of I lie word "either" I move the word-- "any one" should be inserted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarki': 1 move to strike out all ol llie proviso, commencing at the middle of line 15. The motion was seconded. T'he Chair pul the motion, and the same was ifeclared carried. The Chairman: If there are no further ainendmenls to section i, tlie Clerk will read section 5. The Clerk (hen read sectinn .5, as follows: "Sec. j. I'he Supreme e.xecutive power of the state shall be vested in the Governoi'. who shall see tliat the laws are faithfully executed." There being no amendments to section 5, the Clerk read section (J, as follows: Sec. 0. The Governor shall be Commander-in-Chief of the militi'i forces of the state, except when these forces are in (he actual service of the United States, and shall have power to call out any part of the whole of said forces to aid in (he execution of the laws, to suppress insurrection or to repel invasion." There being no amendments to section (5, the Clerk read section 7, as follows: "Sec. 7. The (iovernor shall nominate, and by and with the consent of the Senate, appoint all officers whose offices are established by this constitution, or which may be created by law, and whose appoinl menl or election is not otherwise provided for. If, during a recess nf the Senate a vacancy occur in any such office, the Governoi' shall appoint some fil person to discharge the duties thereof until the next meeting ot the Senate, when he shall nominate some person to fill such office. If the office of Secretary of State, State .Auditor, State Treasurer, Attorney General or Superintendent of Public Instruction shall be vacated Ijy death, I'esignation or otherwise, it stiall be the duty of the (iovernor to fill the same by appointment, and the appointee shall hold his office until his successor shall be elected and qualified in such manner as may be pro- \ided by law. ' .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: :Mr. Chairman, in regard to the next section, section 8, it was referred lo the (Inminitlee on Judiciary, that being the section on pardoning power. I hold in my hand llie report ol tlie Judiciary Committi'e and move that it he inserled as one seclum — as section 8. The Chairman: Are there any amendments to section 7? Mr. (ioddard, of Yellowstone: It occurs lo me tliat this seclnui will eoiilliil wilh some other articles that have been adopted by the coiixcn- iKHi. Ill the second line that section provides that the (iovernoi' shall iiominale, and by and with the consent of the senate, appoint all officers whose offices are estntilished by the constitution. The judiciary acl pro- vides for (he election of certain officers, and in case of a vacancy, the appointment by the Board of Counly Comniissioner.s — for instance, a jus- lice of I he iieace or county allorney. Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis i<; Clarke: I beg tlie gentleman's pardon— ".\nd whose aiiiioinlini'iil or election is not otherwise provideil (or." If (hi- gentleman will finish (he reading of the section. 1 Ihink he will find (lie point is covered. Mr. (ioddard, of Yellowstone: I would suggest thai inslead of insert- ing (he words "in Ibis constitution," if the words "in this article" were Mllisliliiled III (lie secdiiil line, il would olixiate a possible difficuKy. COiNSTlTLTIU.NAL CO.NVE.NTIU.N 1«89 429 Mr. Magiiiuis. ol Lowis & Clarke: 1 think the section is right as it stands. The Chairnuui: If there be no amendments, the section will stand. Air. tioodard, of \ello\vstone: I merely offered the suggestion. The Cliairman: Tlie motion now is to insert the report of the Judi- ciary Committee as section 8. Ttie Clerk will read the report. The Clerk read as follows: Section 1. The Governor shall have the power to grant pardons, absolute or conditional, and to remit fines anil forfeitures, and to grant commutation of punishments and respites after conviction and judgment for any offenses committed against the criminal laws of the state; Provided, however, that before granting pardons, re- mitting fines and forfeitures, or commuting punishments, the action of the Uovernor concerning the same shall be approved by a Board, or a majority thereof, composed of the Secretary of State, Attorney General and State Auditor, who shall be known as a Board of Pardons. Sec. 2. The Legislative Assembly shall by law prescribe the sessions of said Board, and the manner in which applications shall be made, and regulate the proceedings thereon. But no fine or forfeiture shall be remitted, and no commutation or pardon granted, except upon the ap- proval of a majority of said Board, after a full hearing in open session, and until notice of time and place of such hearing and the relief applied for stiall have been given by publication in some newspaper of general cir- culation in the county where the crime was committed, at least once a week for two weeks. The proceedings and decision of the Board shall be reduced to writing, and with their reasons for their action in each case, and the dissent of any members who may disagree, signed by them, and tiled, with all papers used upon the hearing, in the office of the Secretary of State. Sec. 3. The Governor shall coiuiiiuincate to the Legislative Assembly, at each regular session, each case of remission of fine or forfeiture, re- prieve, commutation or pardon granted since the last previous report, stating the name of the convict, the crime of which he was convicted, the sentence and its date, and the date of remission, commutation, pardon or reprieve, with the reasons for granting the same, and the objections, if any. of any member of the Board made thereto. The Chairman: The Question is upon the adoption of these three sections as one section to be known as section No. 8. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I offer the following as a sub- stitute. The Chairman: The following substitute is offered. The Clerk read as follows: The Governor shall have the power to grant reprieves, commutations and pardons after conviction, for all of- fenses except treason, and cases of inipeacliment upon such conditions and with such restrictions and limitations as he may think proper, subject to such regulations as may be provided by law relative to the manner of applying for pardons. Upon conviction for treason he shall have power to suspend the execution of the sentence until the case shall be reported to the Legislature at its next meeting, when the Legislature shall either pardon or commute the sentence, direct the execution of the sentence, or grant a lurther reprieve. He shall annually communicate to the Legis- Jature each case of reprieve, commutation or pardon granted, stating the name of the convict, the crime of which he was convicted, the sentence and its date, and the date of the commutation, pardon or reprieve. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke, moved the adoption of the section. T'he motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. Chairman, the difference be- tween the original sections and the substitute offererl is this: These sec- tions provide for a Board of Pardons: that substitute as offered provides for a pardon by the Governor. That has been the rule that has been in operation in this country from the time of the adoption of the constitution of the Lnited States, with two or three exceptions. Where those excep- tions have been tried, as I understand it, they have never worked well. The object of the rule is that this responsibility of pardon must be placed somewhere: there must be some authority accountable for it. and there can be but small accountability where the responsibility is divided be- tween three or four persons. Possibly, sometimes there are too many pardons granted by a Governor, possibly, sometimes, not enough. It may 430 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES liav(> liai)|ii'iu'il 111 I Ins Territory that soiin' (idvcriinrs havi' f-'mu' loo faf and sonic not far enough. Possibly they dnl not know the i-i-niinials ot this Territory as well as they should have done. But that will be changed by tliis constitution wliich we are to adopt, so far as the knowledge of the officials, of I tie people and criminals of the Territory is concerned. I certainly think it would be unwise. It has not always worked to perfec- tion to change the system, for 1 think there is no system that will work to perfection, and I think it would be unwise to .jump out of the frying pan into the fire — to depart from this well settled riili' and try one unknown. .Now, that IS tlie chief distinction and difference between the motion mad'' and the substitute offered. They differ in some other minor particulars, liut upon this simple question of responsibility and accountability of the official. 1 think it is almost the universal concurrent testimony of people who have observed the workings of the two different systems in the dif- ferent states, that the pardoning power should be vested in the (;ov(M'nor. and he should be held to a strict accountability. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: i am very sorry to have to differ with my learned friend from i.,ewis iS: Clarke County, but so far as the responsibility IS concerned, I do not know where there is any more danger in resting it upon the shoulders of four men who are mad(? officers for that express purpose than in resting it upon the shoulders of one. It seems to me there is a greater safeguard. iNow, several of the states of this Union, among them the state of Pennsylvania, became so much incensed at the action of their Governors — and they are supposed to be honorable men and men of character — they were so indiscreet with their actions that they were compelled to resort to a Pardoning Board, and did sfi; and no man can get to be pardoned out of the penitentiary unless the matter goe-< before the Pardoning Board, who are responsible, reliable and intelli!;enl men, and they recommend it. And it seems to me thai the very argument which the gentleman uses as his reason against it may be urged more emphatically in favor of the Pardoning Board. I hope the suggestion of the committee, which, by the way, consumed a good deal of time in exam- ining the authorities of the different constitutions, will prevail. .Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: There are some differences of opinion m the Judiciary Committee as to the pardoning power, but there were a large majority of that committee in favor of a Pardoning Board, and certainly iL seems to me that it is as good a system as any that can be suggested. The pardoning power is one of which great complaint has been made under other systems. Now, this article provides that the Governor may grant a pardon, but he can only do so upon the approval of a Board of Pardons. Opportunity is given to the applicant or person who may be interested m seeking the pardon, and other parties interested may have an oppor- tunity to make argument against the grant of pardon; and every action of the Governor by the approval of the Board will be reported to every session of the Legislature, stating the pardons that have been granted and the reasons given for granting them. .Now, certainly, under those circum- stances, It seems to me there will be much less abuse of the pardoning power than where it is vested solely without any practical responsibilil\' in one single man. The action must have the approval of three high slate officers, and they must only ha\e acted upon proper notice and must b'" able to give a reason for the action they have taken. 1 do nol see myself how any greater safeguard can be provided, and 1 think it might be safely said that under this system the Governor could not grant a iiardon of his own accord because this Board would be equally responsible with him, and that would be a sufficient restraint uiion him m case of any influences being brought to bear upon him personally which might otherwise induce him to grant a pardon upon unwarrantable grounds. .No pardon could be granted until the whole matter was considered, and Iheii only upon th" concurrent recommendation of the Governor and a majority of this Board. Mr. Clarke, of Silver Bow: The domain of the one-man power and principle is rapidly narrowing down as tlie civilization of the century advances, and I venture to say that if heretofore the pardoning power had been v(\sted in three or four men instead of one. and a proiiosition were made that this be abolished and the pardoning power be vested in the (jovernor of the state, that it would strike us all with amazement. 1 do not fieliex'e in pulling so imporlant a mailer in the hands of one man. We may be unfortunate enough to elect a weak man lo the office of (Jov- ernor of the state of Montana, a man who would he governeil lo a greni GONSTITLTlUiNAL CO.WE.M'IO.N 18««1 431 i-xtenl Uy lus prejudices, and a man who might go still farther and bo actuated by bad and dishonest motives. We can readily see that in cases where an election would be pending and the Governor could for mere political considerations grant a pardon to some individual belonging to a particular race, or sect, or nalioiialily. thereby securing a large influ- ence m behalf of the party tn which he belonged — we can readily see how this great privilege might be abused. I camiol understand why objection should be bad, or why any evil conseciuences could arise by putting this power into the hands of three or four learned men. We know that when a matter of this kind is considered by two or more, that they are more liable to arrive at a just conclusion than one man who is not guided by such counsel, tlence, 1 am m favor of sustaining the report of the com- mittee, who have, no doubt, given this matter due consideration, and wliose cniiclusions 1 believe to be correct. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the substitute offered by Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke, and the same was declared lost. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: 1 wish to offer an amendment. The Chairman: The amendment of the gentleman from Madison will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Insert alter the word "state" in line 3, section 1. the words "'e.xcept for treason and in cases of impeachment." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .\lr. Callaway, of Madison: Before this vote is taken 1 want to say lo the gentlemen of tins committee that the only object of that amendment IS to insert in this constitution the opiiinnis of the gentlemen who have the honor to occupy this floor, thai tins convention may place its seal of condemnation upon any one man, or any set of men, who may be, in tins country of ours, guilly of raising bis hand against the government. The most of the gentlemen who occupy this floor can remember when treason was abroad in our land, a day when the heavens were clothed in mourn- ing and all this broad, good land of ours was filled with sorrowing women and weeping Rachels. We know what that cost us, and while that time has so long passed that we have almost forgotten it, and we are all satis- fied that we will never see a day again such as those days were. I desire to see placed in our organic act, now that we are forming a fundamental law for the government of a country that is an empire within itself — I desire that we shall place our seal of condemnation upon him who would be disloyal to the country in which he lives. Mr. Chairman, 1 trust the gentlemen of this committee will not forget that I he crime of treason after due conviction is the unpardonable sin. The Cliair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from .Madison, and the same was declared lost. The Chairman: Ihe question is upon the adoption of the proposition of the Judiciary Committee on pardoning power, as one section, to be known as section 8. The vote was taken and the said motion was declared carried. The Chairman: The Clerk will read section 9. The Clerk read section 9, as follows: "Section 9. The Governor may require information in writing from the officers of the E.xecutive Depart- meiil upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, which information shall be given upon oath, whenever so required, he may also furnish information in writing at any time, under oath, from all officers and managers of State institutions, upon any subject relating lo the condition, management and expenses of their respective offices and instilulions, and may, at any time he deems it necessary, a[ipoint a com- mittee to investigate and report to him upon the condition of any execu- tive office or state institution. The (JovcM'nor shall at the commencement of each session, and from time to time by message, give to the Legislative .\ssenibly information of the condition of the state, and shall recommend such measures as he shall deem expeilient. He shall also send to the Legislative Assembly a statement with vouchers of the expenditures of alT moneys belonging to the state and paid out by him. He shall also at the commencement of each session present estimates of the amount of money required to be raised by taxation, for all purposes of the state." Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: Right here in this place I deem it necessary to suggest an additional clause which I think will come in very well. 432 PROCEKUINGS A.ND DEBATES Ttu' Cliairmau: i'ln' yi'iUli'iiiau rrciui Lewis & Olarkc ipircrs llii' lollowing as an additional clause. The CU'i'k read as lollnws: The Treasurer may be suspended Irom ol'Iice by the Governor during the recess of the Legislature, and until thirty days after the coniinenceinent of the next session of the Legislature, whenever it shall appear to him that such Treasurer has in any particular violated liis duly. The Governor shall appoint a competent person to discharge the duties of the office during such suspension of the Treas- urer. Ample bonds must be furnished by the person appointed to act as Treasurer. Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clarke: I. think, Mr. Chairman, llial that is a provision that we ought to incorporate in our constitution. It is one that would surround the Treasurer and give hiiii no opportunity for any speculations, or peculations, and such authority, it seems to me, ought to exist in the Governor. There are cases in the history of numerous states where a lack of authority of that kind resulted not only m disas- trous loss to the state but also m disastrous loss to the bondsnuMi who went on the bonds of the Treasurer; and it is a protection not only to the state but to all men who are at times compelled by persuasion or otherwise to go on bonds for Treasurers. I see no harm in the amendment, and it may result in a great deal of good. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, it appeared to me as my friend read his substitute or amendment, that it was placing rather an arbitrary power in the hands of the Governor. The committee did not examine that subject, and I would suggest that he withhold it for the present so that we can look at it carefully, with the understamling that when lie is ready we can go back to this section. Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clarke: That is satisfactory to me and 1 will withdraw the amendment for the present. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I move that the committee do now rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same was declared carried. L\' CU.WEiNTlOlN. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, the Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. tO, General Eile No. 4. have made various amendments to the same, and now report back to the con- vention and ask that further time be granted for its further consideration. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports that they have had under consideration General File No. 4 on the Execu- tive Departments. They have made progress and desire leave to sit again. If there be no objection leave will be granted. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I move that the convention take a recess until 8 o'clock, with the understanding that the convention shall proceed with the consideration of this proposition this evening. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the questKni on said inntidii and the same was declarcl carried. The convention took a recess until 8 1^. M. .Monday. .Inly 2!)th, 18S9. iMeiiinjj Session. The convention was called to di'der by (he Presiilenl at 8 I'. M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: 'J'he Chair would state that upon taking a recess at six o'clock the convention re.solved upon the consideration of General File No. 4, Proposition No. 10, as the order of business for this evening. II there be no objection the convention will go into Clommittee id' tUe Whole, and the genlleman from Cascade, !\lr. Cullms, will take the Cliair. CUNSnrUTlU.NAL CO.N\ EMION 1889 433 I.\ CO.M.MIl ri;K OF THE WHOLK. Mr. Collins, of Cascade, in tlio Chair. The committee was called to order. The Chairman: The committee will resume the consideration of sec- tion 9. Are there any further amendments to section 9? If not, the Clerk will read section 10. The Clerk read section 10 as follows: ■"Section 10. He may on e.xtra- ordinary occasions convene I he Legislative Assembly by proclamation, stating the purposes for which he has convened it. but when so convened. It shall have no power to legislate on any subjects other than those speci- fied in the proclamation, but may provide for the expenses of the session and other matters incidental thereto. He may also by a proclamation con- vene the t^enate in extraordinary sessions for the transaction of executive business." There being no amendments to section 10 the Clerk read section II as follows: "Section If. Every bill passed by the Legislative Assembly shall, before it becomes a law. be presented to the Governor. If he approve, ho shall sign it. and thereupon it shall become a law. but if he do not approve, he shall return it with his objections to the house in which it originated. which house shall enter the objections at large upon its journal and proceed to reconsider the bill. If then two-thirds of the members present agree to pass the same, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other house, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if ap- Iiroved by two-thirds, of the members present in that house it shall then become a law notwithstanding the objections of the Governor. In all such cases the vote of each house shall be determined by yeas and nays, to be entered on the journal. If any bill shall not be returned by the Governor within five days ^Sundays excepted after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law. in like manner as if he had signed it. unless the Legislature shall by their adjournment prevent its I'eturn, in which case it shall not become a law without the approval of the Governor. .No bill shall become a law after the final adjournment of the Legislature, unless approved by the Governor withm fifteen days after such adjournment. In case the Governor shall fail to approve of any bill after the final adjournment of the Legislature, it may be filed, with his objections, in ttie office of the Secretary of State.' Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge, sent up an amendment to section 11. The Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodge offers the following amendment: Strike out the word "present"' in line 5, section 11, and insert instead the words "'elected to that house." Also strike out the word "present" in line 7. section 11, and insert instead the words '"elected to." The motion was seconded. Mr. W inston, of Deer Lodge: The reason 1 offer that, Mr. Chairman, is because this amendment is in most of the constitutions of the United Ijtates, and I think it should be there. There is great danger that there may be too much legislation, and if you put such a clause as that in the constitution it will require but a very few votes to override the veto of the Governor. The house can make such rules and regulations as will oompel the attendance of absent members, and if the measure is a worthy one and the Governor should veto it and it fail to pass two-thirds of those elected, why, then, the natural inference is that it should not pass. Cer- "ainly six members out of sixteen and eighteen out of fifty should not b:i allowed to veto the Governor. I think it is a wise precaution that two- 1 birds of the members elected, instead of two-thirds of those present (jhould be made to override the veto of the Governor. Why we should make It here two-thirds of the members present I cannot see. for the reason that if a measure has not any merit in it and the party should •ivish to get it through the senate or the house, notwithstanding the veto of the Governor, why. all he would have to do would be to find some pretext to get the members absent, and by six votes in the senate and eighteen in the house have it passed. It seems to me that it would be a very wise precaution to reriuire two thirds of the members elected to "ihe house to override the veto of the Governor. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would liKe to call the attention of Ihe house to the rule in Congress that the two-thirds by which a vetoed bill IS required to be approved before it becomes a law has been stated in both houses to be two-thirds of the members present. •434 I'UnCKEUI.NGS AM) DKBATKS All'. Ma^iiiiins. ol Li'wis & Clarke; The comiiiilti'c liave been very liberal with the veto pi>vvi>r. We have lollowed tlie example of New VorK to tlie fullest extent and have allowed the Goveiuoi' power to veto single Items of approiHiatiou bills; we allow' lain to approve matters after the Jjegislalure adjourned and we provide ajjauist what has been called pocket vetoes. Wow, of course it requires a Quorum to do business in either house, and 1 think the very argument the gentleman made is against his proposition, it is very easy for a minority or a majority to compel Ibe allendance of a full house, either m a house or senate. 1 think th.i priipiisdion ought to stand as it is in the bill. .Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: .Mr. l^resident, the constitution of the Lnited stales, requires two-thirds of the house; it does not I'equire two- thirds of those present. Mr. Magiiinis, of Lewis A Clarke: But the construction tliat has been given to that is that two-thirds of the members of the house means two- thirds of a quorum, or two-thirds of those present. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge (..Mr. VVmston; and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Air. Hershfield, of Lewis iS: Clarke: I would like to submit this propo- sition, which I want to follow section 9. Mr. .Magmnis, oi i^cwis iS; Clarke: We can go back to section 9. The Chairman; IJo you reserve your proposition until later? Mr. ffershfield, of Lewis & Clarke; Yes sir. The Chairman: The Clerk will read section 12. I'he Clerk read section 12 as follows: "Section 12. The Governor shall have power lo disapprove of ain- item or items of any bill making appropriations of money, embracing distinct items, and the part or parts approved shall become a law; and the item oi" items disapproved shall be void, unless enacted m the manner following: If the Legislative Assem- bly be in session he shall within five days transmit to the house in which the bill originated, a copy of the item or items thereof disapproved, to- gether with his objections thereto, and the items objected to shall b'i separately reconsidered, and each item shall then take the same course as is prescribed for the passage of bills over the executive veto." There being no amendments to section 12, the Clerk read section 13 as follows; "Section 13. In case of the failure to qualify, the impeach ment or conviction of felony or infamous crime'of the Governor, or his death, removal from office, resignation, absence from the state or inability to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the powers, duties ami emoluments of (he office, for the residue of the term, or unlil the disability shall cease, shall devolve upon the Lieutenant Governor." There being no amendments to section 13, the Clerk read section 1 1, as follows: "Section li. The Lieutenant-Governor shall be President of the Senate, but shall vote only when the Senate is equally divided. In case of the absence or disqualification of lh(> Lieutenant-Governor, from any cause which applies lo (he (iovernor, or when he shall hold the office of Governor, tfieii the l'ri>sident pro tempore of the Senate shall perform the duties of the Lieuleiiant-Governoi' until the vacancy is filled or the ilisalnlil\ removed." iliere being no amendments to section 14, the Clerk read seclion 15 as follows; "Section 15. In case of Ibe failure to qualilx- in his office, death, resignation, absence from the state, impeachmeiil. conviction of felony or infamous cnme. or disqualification from any caus(^ of both the Governor and the i.,ieuteiiaiit-Goveriior, I he duties of the (iovernor shall devolve upon the President of the Senate pro tempore unlil such dis- qualification of either the. (iovernor or Lieutenant-Governoi- be removed, or I he \acaiicy filled, and if the President of the Senate lor any of the atio\i' named causes shall become incapable of performing the duties of Governor, the same shall devolve upon the Speaker of the tfouse." there being no amendments to section 15, the Clerk reail section IG as follows; "Seclion Ki. I'lie first Legislalive .\ssembly shall provide a seal ten' llie state which shall be Acpt li\ llie Secretary of Slale and used by him idficially and known as the Greal Seal of the State of .Moiitann." Tliere being no amendments to seclion Hi, the Clerk read section 17, as follows; "Si>(-(ioii 17. All granis and commissions shall be in the name and by the authority of llie State of .Montana, sealed wilh the Great Se.ll ol the Slale. signed by the Governor and countersigned bv Ihe Secretary of state." CONiSTlTL TIO.NAL CO.NVE.MIO.N 1889 i3.') 'l'lii»re tieiiiy no anifiicliiicnts to si'ction 17. the Clerk read seeticni IS. a.s fiillows: "^Jeotion 18. An aei'miiil shall be kept by the olticers nl the executive depai-tinent, and of all imblic in.stitutions of the state of all moneys received by them, severally from all sources, and for every service performed, and of all moneys disbursed by them severally, and a semi- annual report thereof shall be made to the Cxovernor, under oath: they shall also, at least twenty days preceding each regular session of the Legislative Assembly, make full and complete reports of their official transactions to the Governor, who shall transmit the same to the Legis- lative Assembly." Mr. Goddard. of Yellowstone: I move to strike out the section just read by the Clerk for the reason that I think it is the province of the Legislature to enact those matters. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: it is moved and seconded that section 18 be stricken out. Mr. Maginms. of Lewis & Clarke: 1 hope tliat section will not be stricken out. It seems to me the substance of that w5s offered in a reso- lution 1 think by the gentleman from .Madison, and was considered an efficient check upon the officers of the state, inasmuch as the Gov-ernor should be able at any time to call upon them for an account of the finances, and that it was necessary also that he should have this power m order that he should submit Ins estimates to the Legislature, which are provided for in another section of the constitution. It seems to .me it should stand. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: It seems to me a very wise and indispensible clause in the constitution. ^ Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: 1 ha\e had but a moment to consider the section, but it seems t- must kooij tlu'sc acfouiits so as to he able to reijort to tile Uoveriior u|)on his request. Tliis siniply presi-rihes what I lie (;o\eriior may require. Ins duties and powers in ttiat particular, and all through m this iiroposition upon the Executive olficer the powers ot the e.\ecuti\e drpartmenl are delined and prescribed; and tliese officers such as are con- teniplated here are part of the executne machinery of the goveriiinen;. l\ow there is no necessity for any constitution ijrescribiiiK what the duties of a District Attorney are; they can say these officers shall perform sucli duties as may be prescribed by law; but it is iierfectty proijer m a consti- tution that the duties of the executive department should be prescribed, and 1 believe that this is in the interest of an honest administration of the finances of the government, and 1 hope it will be sustained. The Chair put the question oil the motion of the gentleman from Yellowstone (Mr. Goddardj to strike out Section 18, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Section It). The Clerk read Section 19 as follows; "Section 19. The Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney General, shall constitute a Board of State Prison Commissioners, which Board shall have such supervision of all matters connected with the State I'risons as may be prescribed by law. They shall constitute a Board of Examiners, with power to examine al! claims against the State, except salaries or compensation of officers fixed by law, and perforin such other duties as may lie prescribed by law. And 110 claim against the State ex,cept salaries and compensation of officers fixed by law, shall be passed upon by the Legislative Assi'lnbly without first having been considered and acted upon by_aaid Board." Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clarke, sent up an amendment to Section 19. ■f'he Chairman; I'hi' gentleman from Lewis & Clarke muxes that the following be added to Section 19 and tliat suliseiiuent sections be num bered accordingly. The Clerk read as follows: "The Governor shall have power during the recess of the Legislative Assembly and until thirty days after the commencement of the next session to suspend tlie Stale Treasurer from office for gross neglect of duty, for corrupt conduct in office or for any other misfeasance or malfeasance therein. The Governor shall appoint a competent person to discharge the duties of the office during such suspension of tlie Treasurer, and shall require of the appointee ampb' bonds for the proper security of the public funds in his possession." Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: 1 move to amend the amendment offereJ by the gentleman Irom Lewis and Clarke to read "Board of Examiners, as hereinafter provnled, shall have power" &c. Mr. Magiunis, of Lewis i.\: Clarke; if my- friend will permit me — (in- terrupted;. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow; 1 yield to the gentleman. iVlr. Maginnls of Lewis & Clarke; I want to offer as an ameiKhiieiil to the last line of the last section and as a substitute for the amendnuint of my friend, the lollowing: The Legislature may provide for the tem- porary suspension of the State Treasurer by the Governor whenever the Board of Examinevs deem such action necessary for the protection of the moneys of the State. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 move the adoption of that. The Chairman: The question before the committee is on the adoption of the new section offered by tlie gentleman from Lewis A: Ciarkt> uMr. Hershfield). The ameiulment of the ottii'i- grnllemaii from Lewis ^V; Clarke (Mr. .Miigmnisi is not germane at present. Mr. Hickards, of Sliver liow; .Just one word. 1 do not dinilil llial tins IS iiroper and right, but may it not also be possible that tins Boanl of Ex- aminers may find it necessary to susiiend some one else besides the State Treasurer? Should you not in this amendment, or in this seel ion. pro- vide for the suspension of other officers, as well as the State Treasurer? .Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke; I did not raise that ituestion because I liid not think it necessary, for tlie reason that the Slate Treas- urei' is the one that is the most important of all the offices. II is the financinl office of the State, and it was for ttie protection of the finances anil the moneys iil llie State llial this aineniliiieiit was introduced. That CUASTITLTIU.NAL CO.WK.MIO.N IH8S) 437 is tlie simple and sole object of that. We all exju'el thai wr will riei'l tile proper ol'lieers. but the teinptatimi exists with the State Treasurer f;reater than it does with any other otticer. and therefore it is simply for that purpose and with that view that this was offered. 1 thinic ttial the more the members take into consideration the wording of that prop- osition, 1 thinli: tlie more favorably tliey will be impressed with it. .Mr. Ivnowles of t^ilver Bow: All 1 would say is, that I hope the bill will not, be passed in its present shape. This amendment is intended to cover what, they call neglect of duty. .Now the Treasurer of the Territory may luue a great many more duties assigned Ijj turn than just simply keep- ing the moneys of the State, and in relalioii to all other duties, I he courts are open, and an officer can be niandamused by order of the court and ciimpelU'ii to do his duties. But this thing of misappropriating money 'is something that is frequently done, and it is taken out of the money gen- erally that it IS supposed will not be calleil upon for a long time: and 111 that particular the mandamus will come always too late: and hence it only aiipertains to the examination and suspension for misappropriation of liublic money. Aow there is a dispute very often between the executive and a subordinate officer as to what his duties are in relation to e\ery- thing else but keeping money. I have known nf disputes between a Gover- nor and an Auditor and a Treasurer in which the Governor was very arbitrary about the matter when the Auditor and Treasurer were right and the Governor wrong. And who is to determine what these duties are'.' Who is to determine when one of these executive officers has violated his duty? It ought not to be reposed in the Governor: but upon that one thing of whether any man lias misappropriated the moneys in th" treasury, there cannot be any dispute about that matter. That is a duty in which there will be no trouble in determining whether a man performs his duty (ir not. .Mr. Bickford of .Missoula. It seems to me that this is one more step in the direction of legislation, the amendment offered by the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke, and that by allowing or adopting the amend- ment that we step one step fartlier into the woods. It seems to me that we arc departing from the line of constitutional enactment and encroach- ing upon the line of legislative duties. It is a well known principle of law thai m the Governor of a State is reposed the executive power there- of and I believe in confining the executive power to the Governor and bestiiwmg upnn him the right to see to the enforcement of law. If this amendment should prevail it might perhaps be better for us to enact tliat I he Governor should be the State Treasurer at once and have done with It. 1 would like to ask the gentleman, who is to impeach the Gov- ernor, if the Governor is to impeach the Treasurer of the State? Is it, not a fact that when a person is elected Id the office of Treasurer of the Stale that he gives a bond to the people of the State conditioned upon the faitliful performance of his duty as such Treasurer? Is it not a fact that the legislature takes the matter as we leave it and prescribes the duties, the regulations, and the rules under which he conducts the affairs of his office? Is it not a fact that the State Treasurer, while he is a creation of this constitutional convention becomes immediately amenable to the laws of the Slate and to the enactments of the Legislature? Is it not a fact that while we create this office the Legislature prescribes the duties thereof? 1 say that if the Legislature fails in its duty in the matter of prescribing the duties of the Stale Treasurer, that it will not be the' fault of this convention that it does so. 1 say, sir, that this is a matter which slioutd be left to the future Legislatures of this Stale: That we ought not to infringe upon their rights in this matter: that we ought not to attempt in this constitution to ilo more than we are called upon to do. I believe that the constitution providi's in some place that there shall be elected a State Treasurer whose duties shall be such as are pre- scribed by law. I believe that it provides that his salary shall be a cer- tain amount. That might well have been left to the Legislature. We stiould always consider that our enactments in this constitution are something that are to be permanent, something that will be everlasting, scmething that is not to be lightly changed, and only at a great expense to the people of the future State. Mr. WhitehiU of Deer Lodge: I cannot understand myself what good is to be accomplished by tliis section even if you pass it. The object apparently is to prevent or to put the Treasurer out of otfice and 438 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES Id '^i\f the GuMTuiii' llic puwi'i- to suspend hun alti'i' lii' has inisap propriatc'd money. .Now. 1 do not sec that vvc an; hi be heiielHi'd: alter tie has niisappriipi-iated the money he would he very apt. to lia\e skipped out. It 1.S too late then to suspend hiin from oltice. Surely, alter the harm has been done ttiere is not much need tor the Governor suspend- ing him Irom office. 1 agree with the gentleman who has last spolien. in every State the Legislature provides that the I'reasurt'r mu^t gi\e bonds for the money, and if he misappropriates this money, the bondsmen are there. There must be some person in addilion to the Treas- urer liable to the State for the money which he handles, and surely 1 cannot see that any advantage is to come to the people by legislating in regard to it. So for that reason 1 am opposed to the passage of this section. .Mr. .Marshall of .Missoula: in regard to the difference what is proper in the conslitutioii and what ought to be left to the Liegislature. it seems to me that llus is a constitutional question. The constitution says that the Treasurer shall be elected by the people for four years. 1 do not think that the Jjegislature can pass a law authorizing the Governor to displace him until his lime was out, unless the constitution gave him special authorily to do so: and it seems to me that if it is proper to make a pro\ision at all that the constitution is the only [ilace where it can be made: that the Legislature can have no authority to say that an officer elected for four years by the people can be (lisi)laced for any cause by the Legislature unless the constitution authorizes it especially. iMr. Maginnis of Lewis & l^larke: I was about to say tlial, Ijut my friend has said it so much better. I am trying to kec'p a cli'ar distinc- tion between legislation and constitutional principles, because we are here for Ihe purpose of granting and restricting the powers of tlie Legis- lature. .Now 1 offered my amendment providing that the Legislature may pass a law by which the Governor, upon the recommendation of this Hoard of Examiners, in case he thinks the State moneys are m danger, may suspend this Treasurer temporarily until the Courts, or some one else, straighten the matter up. It seems to me that is clearly a constitutional enactment. .Mr. Clarke, of Silver Bow: I belie^e in Ihrowiiig all the safeguard possible around the custody of public funds. A'ow it is stated by a gentleman liere I hat the State is protected through the bonds that are required. Vou all well know, gentlemen and Mr. Chairman, that the men who go upon or endorse a bond, or give bonds for these officials get no remuneration from it whatever. The Stale requires of an official that he shall give ample bonds to protect the State against loss. Now what will this man do- -generally a poor man — who is unable to secure any one to go upon his bond to guarantee the State? It is purely a question ot trinedship as a laile. Now 1 believe in placing such safeguards round the custody of the public funds as that the State sliall not only I),' Iiroteeled but that that protection shall extend to tli(\se men who vol iinlarily go upon the bonds of public officials. It is well known that purloining of money begins sometimes in a very small way; a man may get into bad habits: he frequents the gambling table with the hope of winning: his loss may be small in the beginning but it goes on in- ci-easing and he puts his hand into the public till to meet his temporary emtiarrassment ; reverses Still follow, and he goes on until he absorbs all the funds m his hands, and then is liable to emigrate to t;anada. But iii Ihe meanlime, before he has proceeded very far in the embezzlement of money Ins acts may be discfivered and there may be time to pro tect the funds of the Stale and iirotoct these men who have matle them- selves liable upon bis bonds. Hence I am in favor of the provision. It is a pro^•ision that is not going to tread upon any honest man's toes, and 1 am in favor of placing such safeguards around our public funds, even if it may partake in some measure of Legislation, as shall effect this purpose in every way. Hence I am in favor of leaving this provision just as it stands. Mr. Blirleitfih, of Custer: II seems In me Ilia! Iln' remarks id' m\ friend from Silver Bow (.Mr. Clark) lend mor(^ to the pi-nlei'li(iii ,<\' Ihe security than of the State. Mr. Clark of Siher Bow: That is pio|iei-. CU.NSTllTilO.NAL CU.\ \ KMIO.N 1889 43!) .Mr. Huilcigli. of Custer: .Now. if a man is elcclt'cl by tin- i)eoijli' to take i-hai-^e nf tlie public funds, of course tliei-e is adequate provision to i-onipel linn to give seeunly. If he cannot gi\e tlie security lequiied by law lie cannot fill tbe office, that is very certain: but to incorijorale into tins constitution a provision that my friend. .Mr. Clark, and .Marcus l>aly and .Mr. Sam Hauser and half dozen others s not get into bad habits, does not get to drinking and carous- ing, as his bondsmen: they look after this fellow and see he doesn't go astray: and 1 am in favor of making the motion to this effect, that all these amendments be laid on the table or indefinitely postponed. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: Just one word, .Mr. Chairman, in answer to the gentleman. 1 am not in favor of giving any man, as I have stated this evening with regard to the one-iuan power principle, 1 am not in favor of placing it in the power of any one man to suspend another from office and disgrace him without cause, but as I understand it the amengis- lalure and not by the convention. 1 lliiiik il had heller nul gd m here at all. Mr. Clark, of SiUer Bow: 1 offer an amendment "that Ihe Legislature may provide." Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: That would properly come williiii the legislative provision. 1 am in favor of a state examiner, but 1 think where it ought to go in the constitution is in the legislative section. "The Legislature may provide for a state examiner, etc." 1 do not think it belongs to the executive side. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: 1 simply wanted to prescribe his duties. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: My friend can prescribe the duties when it comes up in regular order under the head of legislati\e depart- ments; I will help him to sustain it tlien. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I am in favor of the pruicqile, .\lr. Chair- man, as I'xpressed by the gentleman, but 1 believe it ought lo go under the head of legislative departments. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: If that seems to be the sense of the conveii- tion. I will withdraw for the present and allow it to go in under the head of legislative departments. The Chairman: The section is withdrawn. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I now move that the committee do now rise. Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: I would move, Mr. Chairman, that when the committee rise we report this proposition that we have been considering, General i-'ile No. -4, Proposition No. 10, back willi the recom- mendation that it do pass. Motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion of the gentleniaii lidiii Silxer Bow .Mr. Hickards), and the, same was declared carried. the Chairman: The question now is on Ihe molioii of (he geiilleioan li'iirn Custer (Mr. Burleigh' that the committee do now arise. The Ch:ili- pill Hie i|iieslioii ami lln' same was di'clareil rai'l'leil. IN CONVENTION. The President in Ihe Chair. 'The Convention was called to order. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: The Chairman id the Cumiiilttee of ihi Whide made his report. CONSTITUTIUMAL COiNVENTlUN 1889 441 The Piesideut: i'lie Cliairmaii ol tlio Coniinitlee o! tlio Whole reports that certain ainendinents have been considered and adopted, with the reconiniendatmn tliat File iNo. 4 be now passed as amended. If there be no (ibjectuin tliis report will be received and acted upon and the Cleric will proceed to read the ainendinents. I'he Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, youi' Coniiinltee of the \\ hole, to whom was referred I'rnposition ^o. 10. General File No. 4, on executive departments, beg leave to report the same back to the conven- tion with the lollowiiig amendments wluch the committee recommend be adopted, iour committee would state that in the amendments ottered, reference to numbers of Inu's and sections is to such as appear on the printed bills. Proposition .No. 10. tieneral l*'ile .No. 4, Section 1. Amend second line by inserting ""Attoniey General" after "Secretary of State." Section 2. line 4, strike out "no." Amend Section 4. Proposition .No. 10, by inserting at the beginning thereof the following, "until otherwise provided by law." The President: We W'lU pass upon the amendment to Section 1 first. iMr. Alaginnis, of i^ewis & Clarke: Mr. President, I move that we change llie iihrasing of that so that it snail read, "the Governor, Secre- tary of State, State Auditor, Attorney General and Superintendent ot Public Instruction until otherwise provided by law." llie motion was seconded. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: The motion was to put it in at the beginning of the section. The Chair put the iiKition on the amendment to Section 1 and a vi'te being had the same was declared carried. I'hc Cli'i'k read as follows: Section 2, line 4. strike out "no." Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move the adoption of the amendment. The molion was seconded. I'lie Chair put the motion and a vole being had the same was de- clared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 4, Proposition A'o. 10, by inserting at the beginning thereof the following, "until otherwise provided by law." .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis A Clarke: 1 move that instead of placing those words at the beginning that they shall come in after the words "Super- intendent of Public Instruction." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the (lucstuin on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis iV Clarke (Mr. Maginnis'. A division was called for and the same was declared carried. Mr. Mayger. of Lewis & Clarke: I move that in the third line of Section 4 the word "five" be stricken out and the word "four" put in its place. The President: If the gentleman will w'ait a moment the convention will act upon any amendments that were had in Committee of the Whole. The Clerk read as follows: Section 4. line 14, strike out "I'egent of the State Lniversity" and insert "members of the State Board of Education." The President: What is the pleasure of the convention? Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: There is another amendment to that section "and the salary of no official shall be increased during his term of office." T'he Chair put the question on the amendment to insert "members of the State Board of Education" in place of "regents of the State Univer- sity," and a vote being bad the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: In line 10. add after the word "office" the WTirds "and the salary of no official shall be increased during his term of office." .Mr. Loud, of Custer, moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Loud' and a vote being had the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Line 12. Section 10. strike out "either" and insert "anyone." .Mr. Buford. of .Madison, moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. 442 PROCKEOliNGS AM) DEBATES I he i;ii;iir |iul llii' iiui'slidii mi llic iikiIkhi uI Un' yoiitloman from Maili.siui ,.\lr. Hiilni-d anil a \"lc licmj; laki'ii Ilic saiin' was declared t-aiTipd. The Clerk road as lollows: Linu 15. Si'clioii i. strike out all of proviso. I'hi' I'irsidcnl : i'hi' aini'iidniciit strikfs onl ail after the word "office" in lino lo. What is Iho pleasure of the eonvoiitinn? Mr. Chossnian. ot Lewis >S; (>larko, movod the ail<-iption (if lln' ainond men I. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question iin the innliiui of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Chessman) and (he same was declared carried. The President: These are all of the amondments proposed by the Committee of the \\hole. .Mr. .Mayper. of i^ewis & Clarke: I iikivo In strike out the word "five"' in line three of Section 4 and insert the Wdid '"four." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question nn the motoion of the gentleman from Lewis iS: Clarke (Mr. .Maygeri and the same was declared lost liy a vole of 27 ill the affirmative to 27 in tiie negative. Mr. Collins, of Cascaile: I move to amoiiil b\- inserting "twenty-five hundriHl" instead of "four thousand." The motion was seconded. .Mr. Horshfiold. nf Lewis iV: Clarke; I mo\o an aniondnn'iit if it is in order. The President: Tlioro are I wo aineiidmonts ponding. .Mr. Collins, of (Cascade: I Hunk in the first iilace that Iho office of Governor is more of an ornament than anything else. The duties are less than tliat of any other officer mentioned in this section, and the compensation should be iu accordance with the duties performed. The Secretary of State, State Auditor, Slate Treasurer, or Superintendent of Public Instruction, either one of them, do a great deal more work — two or three times more work, and some of them ten times more work — than the Legislative Assembly will ever impose upon the Governor. The (iovernor need not remain at the Capitol but during periods when official duties are to be performed. The routine ilutios of his office can be per- formed liy Ills (irivate secretary, and 1 believe that the Governor of the new state of .Montana for the present should receive but a nominal salar.v \\ ben till' lime comes when we can afford to pay a Governor a biggor salary the Legislature can so provide: but for the present the Governoi- of our state should not receive more than twonty-fivo hundred dollars. (Toiitlemen may say that this is not in accordanci' with the honor of thi' olfico, but 1 say that the amount of compeiisalion should lie in acconl- anco with the duties performed, 'f'he man who will horealtor be elected by the people of this great state as (Governor will bo a man who can afford to fill the position for thai sum of money and who will lose nothing by it: and so far as the pay is concerned he can well afford to fill it for that sum as he can for twice or throe times that s\ini. So that we should come down to a slraiglit business proposition and only pay him for tlie service that he does. There should be no ornament placed arouiul it. and there should be no money paid for the honor of the position. It is almost a sinecure anyhow, and you can wipe it out of existence and not do the stale any harm. It is like a great many other things that coino down to us from tlie misty past. We have got it and wo will hold on to it but w-e sliould only |iay for the services tliat are done. :Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis ^; Clarke: 1 think Ihe gist ol Iho gontlemairs argiiinenl was. in Ihe remark be made, that those wtio are olocled to the offioo (if (ioxcrnor of the stale id' .Montana can as well afford lo pertorm llio dulios tor the sum he mentions as for any other sum. I'liat simpl.N' moans that nobody but a rich man shall be olocted (!o\ornor of the slate id' .Montana, and I do not believe that this (•onvontion or the poojile ol this I'erritory want lo put a clause in our const ilulion or want to fix Iho compensation of this office at such a sum as that it shall make the office necessarily go to some rich man — go to some man to whom, as the gonllomaii says, it shall not matter to him whellier Ihe salary is twenty- five hundred or any other sum. The office id' the Governor of Ihe slal" is the office of the greatest dignity. The Governor ropresonis tlie state. Ho ought to he able to entertain and show courtesies to those who como to \ isit our stale and our state capitol. Bosldos llio dulios iioifonned b\ CUNSTITUTIONAL COiWK.NTION 1889 443 a territorial trovernor, we. by this constitution, impose very many otlier duties upon Inm. It seemed to be tlie sense of the committee this alter- noon that tlie matter should be letl as it is, and wliile 1 am willing that the f,'('iitleinMii should move an aye and nay vote upon this. I think it ought to be a lair record and while all the members are present. I believe that IS only justice and courtesy. I think that the salary as tixed by the committee which dratted the proiiosition and as tixed hy the Comnuttee of the W hole is about right. Mr. Burli>igh, of Custer: 1 agree witli my friend from Lewis & Clarke County, as 1 usually do. (except that he has not gone tar enough. Now, I do not believe that the salary should be fixed so low that none but a rich man can occupy tlie position, i'hat it is a good deal of a sinecure 1 will admit, but 1 will admit that it is a stepping stone to something higher, for instance, to the Senate of the United States or to some other high office, and 1 think the Governor should have sufficient salary here in the state to enable him to live as a gentleman; to provide all the necessaries for the entertainment of the mi'mbers of the Legislature as well as the for- eign ambassadors. U is very certain that no man can run the office of Governor and take care of his own interests — especially his own political interests — unless he has a salary of ten thous;iud, and when the time comes, 1 shall make a motion to that effect. Air. Rickards, of Silver Bow: 1 am sure that 1 made iinsi'lf upder- slood this afternoon when this matter was up for consideration in the Committee of the W holi>, but I want to emphasize if 1 can what .Major .Maginnis has said, that inasmuch as this matter was di!cided m the Coni- inittee of the Wliole it should stand as it as, at least until there is a larger attendance of members. Looking around and seeing the vacant chairs tonight, it seems to me that we are scarcely doing courtesy to the absent members. Of course, you will say that the members ought to be here. 1 grant that, but it may not have been understood that this matter was to come up for final consideration tonight. Aow, touching the remarK that my Iriend from Cascade made, if I understand him correctly, he made the argument or advanced the idea that the private secretary ol the Ciovernor could discharge tlie duties of the office, and that it was not really necessary for the Governor to reside at the capitol. I think it IS provided somewhere in this proposition that the Governor when elected to his office must reside al Ihe capital of the state. All of these officers must reside al .the capital except the Lieutenant-Governor — the Governor must live al the capital, he must necessarily give up his home wherever he may be. He will ue called upon and ought to be able, as Major Magin- nis has said, to entertain m a manner befitting his position. 1 will repeat that he will have to entertain and 1 believe that he should be in a position to entertain: and 1 want to say again, as 1 said this afternoon, that 1 think the people of Montana are not ready to say that we want any schedule of salaries of these officers to fit only the wealthy men of the state. I want to feel and 1 do feel in this matter as in every other matti'r that comes up here for final seltlemeiil that we are adopting the constitution here which we shall offer to the people for their support and which we shall ask them to affirm by their vole, which affirmation shall be an endorsement of what we have done here; and I take the broad view, the broad ground that we want in a schedule of salaries of all stale offi- cers to see that they are open to every ambitious man whether he be a pour man or a rich man, if he is competent to discharge those duties. .\lr. \\ arren. of Silver How: I move we adjourn. The mot Kin was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Sliver Bow (Mr. Warren', and a division being called for, the motion prevailed by a vote of twenty-eight in the affirmative to twenty-six in the negative. The convention stood adjourned until Tuesday, July 30th, 1889, at 10 o'clock A. .^L /iVi PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES IWKMV FIRST DAY. Tn«'s(la>. .!iil.v liOtli. I8S9. ^I liiuf Session. Till' rciiix ciilinn was called tn order Ijy Hu' President at 10 o'clock A. M. The CliTk called llie rnll. 'I'lK^ President: Mr. Gaylord and Mr. Kiuiiiienberg do.sirc to be e.K- cu.spd today. If there be no objection thesr- ;.;entlemen will be cxcuseil. The Chaplain ottered prayer. The Cleriv read tlie journal of the previoiLS day. The President: The convention hall under consideration the amend- ments reported by the Committee of the Whole on Proposition .No. 10 which business is now bi'fore the convention. .Mr. Mag-innis, of i^ewis & Clarke: I belie\e thai Ihe ayes and nays were ordered on the amendment of Mr. Collins of Cascade to tlie ainend- nient of Mr. Mayger of l-,ewis & Clarke when the convention adjourned. Tlie President: The Clerk will read the amendments as proposed 111 the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: The amendments of Ihe committee on the section were adopted and additional amendments were under con- sideration. Mr. Collins, oi Cascade: j iiionc Io amend 'Seel ion 1. hue lliree — (interrupted . 'i'lie President: The Chair would suggest that the rule is to take up all the amendments reported back by the Committee of the V\'hole first, and then we can proceed to the consideration of new matters. .Mr. Maginnis, of LewLs cS: Clarke: 1 think, .Mr. President, the amend ments of ttie Committee of the Whole were all adopted. The Clerk proceeded to read the amendments reporteil by the Com- mittee of the Whole. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 move that we dispense with the ri'adi!i- of the adopted sections. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cascade (.Mr. Collinsl, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Section 8. as amended by the Committee of the Whole. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention concerning the amendment'/ .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis iS; Clarke: I move its adoption. The motion was seconded. The President put the question on the motion of the gentleman from l^ewis tV: Clarke (Mr. Maginnis), and the same was declared earned. Th(^ Clerk read as follows: .Amend Section 10. line four, by striking out one of the words "he." The l^resident: If tliere be no objection, tins amendmeiil will be considered adopted. Ibe Cleric read as follows: .\mend Section II by sinking oul Ihi' woiil "present" and insert "elected to that house." -Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: That amendineiit was lost. The President: ^ es. that was the amendment offered liy the i;entle- man from Deer liOdge (.Mr. Winstfui' which was lost. The Ctei'k read as follows: .Vnieiid Inn' nine by sinking; oul "noes' and inserting "nays." 'I'liis lieing merely a correction in Ihe |ibraseolo>;y, if llien- is no objeclion it will be adopted. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Si'.ction lil by adding the following words "the Legislature may iiro\ide for Ihe temporally suspension of Ihe Stall' Treasurer by tin' (io\i'rnor when the Hoaril of K.xamineis deem siicli aelmii necessary bir Ihe prolei't mii dl Ihe moneys of the state." .Mr. llartman. of (ialliilm: 1 ino\e the adoption of ihi' amendiiii'iit. The motion was seconded. The (;iiair pn( Ihe (|uestion on the molmn of the gi'iitleman from (iallatin '.Mr. Ilarlman and a \ole beiiij; laken the sanii' was declared carried. Tlie President: That comprises all of llii' amendiuents ie|iorteil by the Committee of tlie Whole. CONISTITUTIO.NAL CO^VE.NTION 1H89 i'w Mr. Burk'i?li. of (Ulster: 1 move, Mr. President, Uia( on line i'ourteen ot Section 11 the word "titteen" be stricken out and the word "ten" be inserted, so that it shall I'eatI "no bill shall beeonu' a law atler Iimi days atter the adjournment id' tlie Legislature." The President: I lliink it is proper to take this proposition up section by section so that llic amendments shall come in their regular order. W'n will consider the anieiulinent offered by the gentleman from Custer i.Mr. Ijurleigli when we reach that si^ction. Are there any amendments io Section one? Mr. .Marshall, of .Missoula: I move an amendmrnt to Si'dion 1. The amendment was scut Io the Clerk's desk. The Presulent: The gentleman from Missoula t.Mr. .Marshall offers an amendment to Section 1 as follows: Strike out the following words in lines five and six of the first section "m accordance with the act of (.yongress known as the "Knabling Act' approved l''ebruary 22nd. 1889," and iiis(>rt the words "when the state shall be admitted into the L nion." Mr. .Marshall, of Missoula: It means the same thing but is shorter and more concise. I'he motion was seconded. .Mr. .Marshall, of Missoula: The section as amended would read "that the first eleclion shall begin when the state is admitted into the Union." T'lie Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from .Mis- soula (.Mr. .Marshall' ami the same was declared carried. *Mr, Collins, of Cascade: 1 move to amend line three by striking out the word "four" and inserting: the word "two," so that the term of office shall be two years instead of four. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I do not want to make a talk on the matter, but 1 wish that my views shall he placed on record. I am in favor of a short term of office for every office in the state, including the office of Governor. If it could be one year it would suit me better than two. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cas- cade i.Mr. Collins) and a division being called for the motion was declared lost. T'here being no further amendments to Section 1, the Glerk reail Sections 2, 3 and 4. Mr. .Mayger, of Lewis »^ Clarke: Mr. President, I move to strike out the word "five" in line thre<^ of Section 4 and insert tlie word "four. " The motion was seconded. Mr. ttershfield, of Lewis i^ Clarke: i move to amend. T'he President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Hershfield^ offers to amend the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Mayger^ by inserting instead of four thousand tin' worils "thirty-five hundred." The motion was seconded. The President: The question now is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from i.ewis A Clarke Mr. Mayger ', that the word "fivi-' be stricken out and the word "four' be inserted in lieu thereof. Mr. Marshall, of .Missoula, called for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will hi' called. T'he vote is on the larger amount first. Mr. Carpenter, of Lews i*!; Clarke: Do I understand that we vote on the larger amount when an amendment is offeretl? As 1 understood the rule it was only when a blank was to be fillefl that it required the larger amount to be put first. The l^resident: We seem to have been following that rule. 1 think the opinion of the gentleman from Lewis t<: Clarke (Mr. Carpenteri i.-; coi'rect. according to Jefferson's Manual: so I hat being the case we will withhold the amendment offered- by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Mayger ' and vote upon Mr. Hershfields amendment, which is to strike out "four thousand" and insert in lieu thereof "thirty-five hunrlred." The Clerk called the roll and the vote stood as follows: Ayes — Burns, A. J.; Carpenter. Chessman, Collins, Dixon, Diirfee, Dyer, Gillette. Hersh- field, Hobson, Joyes,, kanouse, McAdow, .Myers, Parberry, Robinson — 16. IS'ays— Aiken, Bickford, Breen, Browne, Buford, Burleigh, Burns. A. F.; Burns, Edward: (.allaway. Cardwell, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Fields, Gibson, Goddard, Graves. Hammond, Hartman, Haskell. Hatch, Hickman, Hogan. Joy, Kennedy, Knowlcs. Kohrs. Loud. Luce, .Maginnis, 446 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Marrion, Marshall, Alayger, Mitchell, Mulli, lUunsdell, Reek. Hulwitl, Rii-k- ards, Sargent, Schmidt. Slapletou, Toole, Jos. K.; Toole, J. K.: Warren, Watson, Whitehill. \\ iiistoii, Wiiter, Mr. President — 51. Absent — Brazleton, Hullard. Cauby, Eaton, (iavlord. Knij^penberf,', Middleton, Webster— 8. The Chair declared the aniendiiieiit of I he giMilli'inaii rrom l^cwis ,'t lUark iMr. Hershtield; lost. The President: The question now is upon the aiinMidniHiit (itten'd l)j the gentleman from L(>vvis iV: Clark (Mr. .Mayger . Mr. Joy, of Park, called for the ayes and nays. The President: If theie be no objection the ayes and iiavs will be called. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Breen, Buford, Burns, A. i'.; Burns, A. J.; Callawa\-, Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Uixon. Durlee, Dyer, i'lelds, Gibson, Goddard, Hartman, Hershfield, Hick- man, Hobson, Joyes. Kanouse, Loud, Luce, Marslialt. Mayger. McAdow, Myers, Parberry. Robinson, Rotwitt, Watson — 33. Nays — Aiken, Hickfurd, Browne, Burleigh, Burns, K.: Cardwell, Con- rad, Gillette, Graves, Hammond, Haskell. Hatch, Hogan, Joy, Kennedy, Knowles, Kohrs, Maginnis, Marrion. Mitchell. Muth. Ramsdell. Reek. Rick- ants. Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton. Toole, Jos. K.: Toole. .1. R.: Warden, W hitehill, Winston. Witter, Mr. President— 3'i. Absent — Brazleton. Hullard, tlauliy. Eaton, liaylord. Knippenberg, Middlelon, W Cbster— H. The President declareil the motion of the gentleman froiri Lewis X Clark (Mr. Mayger) lost. Mr. Browne, of Clioleau, sent ii|i an amendment. .Mr. Cioddard, of \ellowstoiii'; 1 wish to renew ttie motion \\hich I made in Committee of the Whole by inserting after the first iiart of Section i the words "until otherwise provided by law.' Mr. Magmnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I think that was adopted. The President: The gentleman from Choteau County (Mr. Browne; offers to amend Section i as follows: Lines i, 5 and 0. "Secrelary of State, thirty-five hundred dollars per annum." That is in lieu of three thousand ttollars; •■Attorney (ieneral Ihirtyfive hundred dollars: State Treasurer, thirty-live hundred dollars; State Anilitor. thirty-live hundred dollais per annum." The question will be thvided. The motion is on the first proiiosilion to amend Ime four b\ inserting thirty-five lumdred instead of '■three thousand.'" Is lliere ii second to the motioir.' Tlie motion was seconded. the Chair put the question on tlie said niolion of the genlteman from Choteau (Mr. Browne i and the same was declared lost. The ITiair stated the remaindiM' of the motion of (he gentleman from Choteau (Mr. Browne but there being no seconds to' the same the said propositions were not put before the convention. Air. Hammond, of Jefferson: I move to strike out "two tlKHisand" in line six of Section i after the wonts "Supeniitendent of Public Instruc- tion"' and insert "three thousand. I'lie motion was seconded. Tlie Ciiair staled the motion. Air. Warren, id' Silver Bow: In connection with this amendment, I would like to say a word. "^Csterday the same amendment was ottered, and at that time the gentleman from Di>er Lodge lAlr. Robinson took occasion to make some remarks in connection wiili tins matter, stating that tile office was one tlial amounted to ImiI very little niid tliat the (dficer would have but very little to do. It .strikes ine, taking the liistory ot till' I'erritory. that the Suiierintendeiil of Public Instruction lias had equally as much to do as the Attorney General of the Territory, and lias come just iis near making his salary; and I thmk he will undi'r our state goveriiiiiiMil come as near making his salary as the Attorney Cieneral. It is a \er.\ important position and a itosilion that will probably earn three thousand dollars. I am certainly in favor of the amendment. It strikes me in making a distinction in these offices that instead of grading down educational iiialters that we stiould rather grade them up. CO-NijTm lin.VAI. CO.WE.N TION ISS;) U7 Mr. Hickard'^, of SiImt Bow: I want |o add lo what has alioady bccii said anollicr consideratinii. \\ c liavi' alri'ady stricken out tin' latter part c>r tins section iiroviding that the Legislatixe Assembly might give to these ('Ulcers certain mileage. .Now. it the Superintendent of Public Instruc- tiiii discharges his duties as it will be exiiected of him to do he certainly cannot do it on a salary of twenty-five hundred dollars and pay traveling expenses. So 1 believe that I he amendment should prevail. A salary of three thousand is certainly liltle enough considering the expenses incident to llie office and the high <:)rder nl' alulily required to fill that office ac- ceptably to the people. The Chair put the queslioii on the motion of the gentleman from Jefferson County i,Mr. hlammond and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of thirty-two in the affirmative to thirty-four in the negative. .Mr. \\ arren. of Silver Bow: Mr. President, I move that the salary of the .\ttoniey General be placed at twenty-five hundred dollars. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow i.\lr. Warren and the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty-eight in the affirmative to thirty-six in the negative. Mr. Hai-tman. of Ciallatin: I desire to offer an amendment to this section to leait exactly as the printed proviso reads, except to strike out certain words. It will read this way. ■'Provided, however, the Legislative Assembly may provide for the payment of mileage to the Superintendent of Public Instruction while traveling in the performance of his public duties." J'he motion was seconded. i'he Chair put the said question on the motion of the gentleman from Ciallatin and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of thirty-one in the affirmative to thirty-four in the negative. There being no further amendinenl.- lo Section i. the Clerk read Sec- tions 5. G. 7. 8, 9. 10 and II. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: If in order. 1 would like to renew my motion to amend Section II. line 11. by sinking out the word "fifteen" and insert- ing the word "ten." so as to make it read "no bill shall become a law at the time of the adjournment of (he Legislature unless approved by the (iovt-rnor within ten days afler the adjournment." The motion was seconde'l. .Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis A Clarke: We took this from the new consti- tution of the state of .New \ork which provides thirty days. The commit- tee thought the volume of business in our Territory would not bi' more than half as large. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I think the Governor would liaxe pli^iity of time. He has nothing particular to do. .Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis A Clark: I do not think that the amendment offered bv the gentleman from Custer County ought to prevail, and 1 think that if the gentleman himself will think of the matter and lake il under due consideration he will not wish it adopted. the President: The Chair would slate thai the question is not before the House. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis A: Clarke: I just want to say that there are very many matters that accuinulate on the desk of the executive of i new state and certainly the time will be too short to give the matters due and proper consideration. I hardly think that my friend from Custer will insist upon that amendment. I think that fifteen days is short enough. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, one of the great troubles and difficulties I hat the people of .Montana Territory, and especially of Custer County and the lower counties here, has been in not getting our laws in time to understand what they are before the next Legislature meets and repeals them and enacts others: and it seems to me that the executive. If he happens to be a business man or a banker or a clergyman, can dis- pense with some of his other business and examine the statutes, and ten days is ample time for the (iovernor to look over the entire legislation of this Terrilorv and send the laws nut to us. It is a verv great iiicon- 448 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES venieiK'e to pai'lics who are sub,j(H-t to tlu' (iprralioii ot tlie law to be iii doutjl as to wtiat ttie law is, and 1 think ton days is sulficient time for the. (Governor to examnie all the laws and put his signature to them. Mr. Hamsdell. of Missoula: 1 cannot appreciate the infinitesimal ad- Muitage which the gentleman seems to think will accrue under his amendment. It seems to me lliat we will economize in time hy standing by the report of the committee, and there is no material advantage to he oiitained by this amendment. The Chair put the question on the saiu moliuii of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Burleigh i and the same was declared lost. Mr. Whilehill, of Deer Lodge, sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Deer Lodge offers the follow- ing amendment: Amend Section 19, line five, by inserting after the word "law" the following words "they shall count I he nmni-ys and securities in the state treasury at least once every month." The motion was seconded. • The Chair stated the motion. Mr. VVhitehill. of Deer Lodge: My reason for offering that was just this, that there we have added a provision j.iroviding that the Governor may remove tlie Treasurer. 1 think it is infinitely better to try to keep the money there than it is to remo\ e the man after the money has been taken away. The Chair put the question on the said motion id the gentleman from Deer Lodge (Mr. VVhitehill) and the same was declared lost. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I move the final passage of the file. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from J.ewis & Clarke, and the same was declared carried. Proposition .\o. 10, General file .No. i, was tlii'ii placed uiion its final passage. The Clerk called llie roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — ,\iken, Bickfoid. Breen, Browne, Buford, Burleigh, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A, J.; Burns, Eilward, Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Dixon. Durtee, Dyer, Tield, (iibson, Gillette, (ioddard. Graves, Hammond, Harlman, ffaskell. Hatch, Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson, Hogan. Joy, Joyes, JvanoiLse, Kennedy, Knowles. Kohrs, Loud, IjUce. Maginms, .Marrion, .Mar- shall, .Mayger, .Mitchell, Muth, :\lyers, ParbeiTy, Hamsdell, Hi'ek, Hobiiison, Hotwilt, Hickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Slapletim. Tnole, Jos. K.: Toole, J. K.; Warren, Watson, VVhitehill, VVTiiston, Witter, Mr. President — GO. Nays — None. Absent — Brazleton, Bullard. Cauhy, iLatmi, Gaylord, Kiiippeuberg, .Mc- Adow, .Middleton, Webster — U. The Chair announced the vole. Proposition No. 10, General File No. 4, as amended, was declared adopted as a pari of the constitution of the state of .Montana. Mr. Loud, of Custer: I woulif like to enquire it I'l'opiisilinii .\ii. 11 comes up under the head of uiifmishetl business'.' The President: That is before the convention under the head of un- linished business, having been rejiorted back by the Committee of the Whole. The Clerk will read Uie aini'iidmi-nts reported In Ihr Cnmiiiitle^ of the Whole. The Clerk read as follows: Strike oul all id' Seclmn _ and Insert (he following: Section 2. J'Jvery male person id' the age of twenty-one years or over, possessing the following qualifications, shall be entitled to vote al all general elections; first, he shall be a citizen of the I'niled States: second, he shall have resided in the state one year immediately preceding tlie election at which he offers to vote, and in the coniily, town or precinct such time as may be prescribed by law; pro\ided first that no person comicled of a felony shall have a right to vote unless he has been par- doned by the pro|)er pardoning power; provided, seconil, (hat iiolhing here- in coiilaiiiecl shall lie cunslrueil to deprive any person ot the ijeht In vole CONSTlTUTlUlNAL COiVVEM'l().\ 1889 449 who has such right at the time of the adoption ot this constitution; pro- vided that after the expiration of five years from tlii- time of the adoption ot this constilutiou no persons except citizens shall liave ttie right to vote. -Mr. Loud, ot Custer: 1 move the adoption ot tlic amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. Joy. of l^ariv: Mr. President. 1 have an amendment. .\lr. Kicliards, of iSilver How: In view of the tact tliat tliere are some membei-s ot this convention that 1 am sure want to go on record when this proposition comes up for final passage, and that ttiey may liave an 0[iportunity so to do, 1 move that it be made a special order for tins after- noon at three o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put tlie question on the said motion of the genlleman from Silver Bow iMr. Hickardsi and a vote being had tlie same was declared lost. Ttie l^residenl : the gentleman from Park i.Mr. .Joy mo\es tlie fol- lowing amendment in Section t, line one, after the word "over" the fol- lowing words, "wlio can read and write the English language." T'he motion was secondea. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Joy, of Park: 1 would like to liaxc the ayes and nays called on that amendment. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 would like to have tlie amendmenl read. I'he Clerk read llie amendment. The President: If there be no objection, the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Burns, A. J.; Breen, Chessman, flartman, Joy, Loud. Reek, Sargent, Warren. Witter — 10. Aays — Aiken, Bickford, Browne, Bufoi'd, Burleigh, Burns, A. >'.; Burns, itl.: Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Court- ney, Craven. Dixon, Durfee, Uyer, fields, Gibson, Ciillette, Goddard, Graves, Haskell, Hatch. Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson, Hogan, Joyes, Ka- iiouse, fvennedy, Knowles. Ivohrs, Luce, .Maginms. Marrion. Marshall, May- ger, iVlitchell, Muth, Myers. Parberry, Hamsdell, Robinson, Rotwitt, Rick- ards, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. K.; Toole, J. R.; Watson. Wliitehill. W iiiston. Mr. President — 5(3. Absent — Brazlelon, Bullard, Cauby, Eaton, (jaylord, Knipi>enberg. .Mc- Adow, Middlelon, Webster— i). The Chair announced the vote and tlie amendment of the gentleman from Park i.Mr. Joy was declared lost. .Mr. Carpentei', of Lewis & Clarke: I wish to offer tlie following amendment. In the second line of Section 2 strike out "at all general elections" and insert "for all officers that now are or hereafter may be elective by the peopli'. and upon all questions tliat may be submitted to a vote of the people.' I will do that for this reason. The words "general elections" do not cover the ground. Tliere are simply voters at all gen- eral elections: there may be special elections and constitutional amend- ments submitted by the people wlueli may not be pro\ided for by this language. The President: This is an amendment to the amendment offered by the Committee of the VNhole. The motion was sec(mded. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 move lo amend that by simply striking out the word "general" so thai it shall read "shall be entitled to vote at all elections." i'he motion was seconded. The Cliair stated the motion. .Mr. Carpenter. oX Lewis & Clarke: 'the motion wliicli I offered was to cover all i|uestioiis that were submitted to the people. It is doulittul W'hether that would be regarded as an election in the general acceptation of the term. ".\ll officers who are elected and all propositions submitted." This is the language used in constitutions where this question has been fully considered, and these words have been decided to cover the ground entirely. .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: 1 am a little afraid that in striking out "all general elections" that it might preclude the Legislative Assembly from providing for any question that should go before a municipal cor- 450 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES [loration — Ihal all fx'r.sons lliat arc ili'clarcd clt'ctors Iuti' iniglil still b" or ratlii'r would be pli'ctors in any muiiciijal corijoration, because 1 doubl !)■ the Legislature of Montana Territory could organize a government that would make the elective franchise any less than is provided in the constitution. While 1 think the amendmeiU of the gentli-rnaii troin Lewis & Clarke tMr. Carpenter > would still leave it open to the Legislature to say, upon cerlain questions in municipal corporations, that they might prescribe what the quaiificalions of an elector should be. I am not suri' but that to strike out "general elections" is to strike oul "all elections," and that would preclude the Legislature from curtailing the right .if suffrage in any corporation, I would like to hear from some of the rest of the members. The President: The Chair would slate that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Maginnisi will have to be deferred until the consideration of the amendment offered by Governor Carpenter, as that would be the third amendment. Mr. Goddard. of Yellowstone: It strikes me that the language used in the section as printed is sufficient for the reason that I do not believi' that the constitution should go to the extent of making qualifications for electors at special elections, and for the reason further that tli'' J^egislature which provides for special elections always provides for the qualification of the voters at all elections, and so far as municipal mat- ters are concerned the qualifications of the voters at such elections are the creatures of statute or legislative enactment. So that I believe in all special elections the Legislature would have the powi-r and authority to fix the qualifications of Ihe voters, and that the conslitution should only be confined to general elections. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I would simply say lliat Ihal language does "of and has never been construed to previMit Ihe sulimission of particular questions to a particular class in municipal elections. .\ vote of the people and a vote of the taxpayers are two different things. It does not prevent any questions being submilted to them. The Chair put the said question on the motion of the genlleiiiaii from Lewis & Clarke i Governor Carpenter i and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a xoic of twenty-one in tlie affirmative to twenty-seven in the negative. The President: The question now is upon the amendmi'iit offered by the gentleman from Lewis iV; Clarke, Major .Vlaginnis. .Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: Is another amendment in order? The President: .Not at the present time. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 hope for Ihe reason that the other auKMid- inent was lost that this will be lost also. The Legislative Assembly should have something to say in the matter of special elections and in the matter of municipal elections. The municipal authorities themselves should have something to say in the matter, and if you strike that word "general" out you tie the l^egislalure hand and foot and Ihe muncipal authorities hand and foot. So that 1 believe Ihal the section as it now reads, so far as this particular matter is concerned, is the best. Mr. Marshall, of iVIissoula: I am in lavor of the proposition of the gentleman because 1 am opposed to the Legislature in any election fixing the qualifications of voters other Ihan as (Inn- are fixed in this constitu- tion. I am opposi'd to giving the Legislature the power to empower a municipal authority to fix the qualifications of its voters, or to fix the qualifications themselves. 1 am opposed to leaving it to the Legislature or the municipality to restrict the right of a citizen of the munciiiality upon questions that may come up. Although a man might not be a prop- erty holder today, he expects lo lie probalily if he is a cifizen. and proli- ably will be. He may not he |(ida\ but he may be tomorrow. I am in favor of the proposition of Ihe genlleiivan from Lewis \- Clark, Major .Majfiimiis. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis iS; Clarke: \\ hen the proposition was mad- to build the (>roton AciueducI into the city of New York years ago all the taxpayers of Ihal city were ojiposed fo it, and that great enterpris' was carried through by the vote of the people i;enerally: and that is what built U|i the city (d' New York: and I believe with my friend from Missoula (Mr. Marshall' thai il is wiser to leave llirse mailers In tlir wlnde COXSTITUTIU.NAL i;( ).\VEM1().\ 1889 451 people. They may make a mistake once in a while hut generally they wilt be correol. Everybody knows more than anybody, and the allseein^ eye is the universal eye, and I am in lavor ol leaving all questions to the masses of the people. The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & CMarko Mr. Maginnis and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. .Mr. Bicklord. of .Missoula: I offer an amendment. The President: The gentleman fmni .Missoula offers the foUuwin^ anieiidmenl: .\dd to the end of Section 2 the following words "Provided further the Legislature shall have power to confer upon women the righ'.s and privileges of electors to vote in any or all elections." The motion was seconded. The Chairman stated the question. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: 1 would like to make the vote upon this amendment a special order for this afti-rnoou at three o'clock, and 1 will make that motion. There are three or four members of the conventio!i absent who will vote for this proposition. 1 believe, and I think the con- vention should allow those persons to be present to vote upon it. i'hey art? absent on leave and will be back this afternoon. ■J'lie motion of the gentleman from Cascade was seconded. The Chair put the said motion of the gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins that the consideration of the anieudmenl of the geiitleinau from .Missoula -Mr. Bicklord be postponed until three o'clock P. M. and a divisum bemg had the same was declared lost. The President: The question is now upon the motion offeri'd by the gentleman from .Missoula. Mr. Bickford. the Clerk reread the said amendment. -Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: I do not propose to take up but a mo- ment or two of our valuable time on the consideration of tins amend ment. 1 for one hope that we will not again enter into a prolonged dis- cussion on the merits of the proposition as to whether the rights of suffrage shall be extended to women. The amendment offered by my friend. .Mr. Bickford from .Missoula, is a very plain one. The proposition is a very plain one. It is simply this, shall the legislature have the same power to grant to women the right to vote that they have had ever since we have been a territory under the Organic .\ct. When the matter was up for consideration before I made this statement, and I make it again, that the legislature having had that power has never abu.>ed it: they have never attempted to force, I believe, this question on the people, and I predict tliat they never will until it has become an open issue and a majority of the Stale legislature has been elected on that issue. .Now the question has been asked me why are you not will- ing to submit this to a vote of tlie people? I answer \ery briefly, simply for the reason that if 1 read history aright, if I read the signs of I he limes aright, every proposition that has for its object the elevation of so- ciety, the uplifting of man, always has arrayed against that movement the saloon element, and the vicious element of every state and of every community, and 1 predict that if this could be submitted to our people, our experience would not be unlike that of the experience of other slates on this or any other question of a like character. 1 am sat- isfied 111 my own mind that if this question should be submtlteil. that there is not a saloon within the bounds of .Montana but that would be arrayed against it. and for that reason I am not willing to leave it solely m the hands of the people. I believe. .Mr. President, that it is safe to leave this right where this amendment proposes to leave it, in the hands of the legislature, and believing as 1 do that no state legislature will ever abuse that trust, will never force this issue upon the people until the people force it upon themselves — if 1 may use that expression. — I am content to vote for the amendment and hope it will prevail. .Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: I move the previous question. The motion was seconded. The Chair slated the motion. 452 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Knowlos, ul' Sihcr liow: I Would like to tuivi' a wnnl to say. 1 was ab.si'iit tlio other ilay when tins discussion was up. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 Ijelieve 1 was recognized liet vote for such provision shall be "l>'or woman suffrage": the lorm of thr vote of those who may vote against such provision shall be "Against woman suffrage". This is the article. "Article — Woman Suffrage. Sec- tion 1. The legislative assembly shall have the power to grant to all female citizens of the State over the age of twenty-one years the right to vote at all elections". If it be the sense of the people of .Montan.i that woman shall take her part at the polls with the men. they can vote upon this proposition and adopt it. Now. Mr. President. I have not the want of confidence in the solid jjcople of .Montana even taking in the saloon element, that ttie honoralile gentleman from Silver How has. Some- times the p(>oide make mistakes, but if they do make mistakes, they, after awhile, right themselves. If we submit this proposition separately it can be voted upon in that wa\-, and if it receives a majority of ill the votes cast, then it forms a part of ttie con.stitution. .\nd, Mr. I'ri'si- dcnt and gentlemen id' this convention, this is a vei'y common proceeding. In most of the States pro[)ositions tliat are in di)( your inoutli closed, and been silent upon those things that you lia\e allowed to be done. Therefore llic only and .serJoLis objri'li(i;i I have III this mallei' is that il iniglit iinpei'll the adoption nl' this cdiisli- tutioii. 1 know that the Enablnig Aet provides that if the constitution we shall vote upon shall be \oted down this conventuin shall be called togetliei' again. 1 do not believe that any such event will haiiiien, because 1 am satisfii'd from the deliberation, from the care, from the indus- try, from till' patriotism that \ou see demonstrated in this convention every day that the peo|ile will approve il. .Now if these gentlemen who are so an.xious about this thing will submit it separately we can take the sense of the people; and, Mr. President, allow me to say this: there is, in favor of this proposition for woman suffrage, a very considerable following, and it is a very respectable one. It includes the very best minds of the men and women in the Territory of Montana. I laid down the other day my objections to this proposition. I am willing and would vole for, and 1 say it in all sincerity and honesty. I would \iile foi' the right of the women, of my wife, to go to the polls with me or go by herself and cast bei' vote as she pleases, for I will say as I said the other day, that 1 believe that she w'ould be nearer right in the majority of instances than 1 would, but 1 do object, and for that reason I would vote against this proposition that she should be liable to all these duties that men liave to perform. .\s was well said the other day by the gen- tleman from l^ewis & Clarke. .Major .Maginnis. tliis is a government of force. We should not take too many steps in advance. I am very much inclined to fall back upon the proposition that our fathers laitl down over one hundred years ago in the adoption of the constitution of the United States, but. Mr. President, at the proper time and when it is germane to the subject, I desire to offer this vote for it as a separate iiro|iositinii |,) be submitted to the electors of Montana. .Mr. Ramsdell of .Missoula: I move the previous question. The President: The gentleman from t^ilver How has the floor. Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: I will withdi'aw iny motion to hear the gentleman from (silver Bow. as 1 believe he has not bad his say. .Mr. Ivnowh's of Silver Bow: I was away on professional business Ihi' other day when this matter was discussed in Committee of tlie Whole, In regard to the condition of women and the estimate in which women are held, mankind has made a wonderful progress since the dawn oi' history, 'i'he fu'sl we know of women Ihey were slaves, sold and bar- tei'ed in the market, like animals. Jacob tiad to labor to purchase his wives. Ill later times amongst the MoliRmmedans woman is the slave and Itie plaything of man. She has no soul, no immortality is opened ui) for her, the black eyed eyrie is to lie a solace in the heaven to come. Amongst the (ireeks and the Romans the w'omaii was under the domination ot the oldest one of her clan or sect. She could not marry except as he dictated. Later in the middle ages she, her property, everythin.i.' was subject to the domination of man. Who she should marry and w'haL she should do was all under the domination of man. When she inherited property it was put in the hands of a guardian and the guardian dic- tated who was to be her husband: he pointed out some stalwart soldier or knight if he had much estate that was to be her lord and master. We inherited from our ancestors very much of the feudal laws. Under our system all of the personal property of the woman when she married went to the husband, and the income of all her real estate except such as was deeded to somebody m trust lor her. She was under covelure, under the domination of her husband. Gradually we have been relaxing these old laws. Women originally wei-e not considered fit to be educateil, and Ihe literature of the world was not written for woman's eyes. Kven Sliakespeare was WTitten in an age when but very few women could rearl. and thi- foul allusions and the smut that has characterized that poet sliow Ihe lack of wYiman readers. But women have become educated. They ha\'e purified the literature id' the world. We have given woman more and more control of her ijroperty. In .Montana Territory by this constitution we have said that the property of every woman that she has before marriage is her sole and separate property. What does that mean? Ttiat she has the right to control that iiroperty: its income is hers. She can dispose of it and do with it wtial she pleases, .\fter mar- riage you have put in here a clause relating to community projierty. She has an equal rivhl with tier husband. In Ibis country in the last thirty 454 PROCEEDl.NtiS AMJ DKBATES >ears educalmiuil inslitulinu ;iI1it cilucalimial instilutinii lias Iicimi uin'iii'il lo woman. It was mily tliirtytivf years ayo whoa tlif llist rollcf-'i's m tli- I nilt'd States admitted woiiioii to an equal rif-'hl witli mi'u in tlie colleKe ciouise. And wlial lias tieen the result? Have women been found lackiii;,' in this particular? Those women have pressed lorwaid and taken their rank as some of the best scholars in the land, even in some of the colleijes women have taken the prizes as nitahematicians. and they have no- where fallen behind; nowhere have they shown lack of capacity to taki' as high an educalional course as their brother. It has been said that this is a government ol force. I know in looking to the past, govermnents are governnienis of forci'. Itussia loilay is supported by its army; l^russia is supported by her arm.\-: Ireland is only kept in subjection to England b\ the reit coats in arms. I know those things, but the constitution of the Lulled States was not adopled by force. .Men made and proposed a con- stitution to the people of tins country a/nd it was adopted in i)eaceable election. This constitution tlial we establish hi>re today w-ill be adopted m the same manner. Already instead of the arbitrament of force be- tween nations we have a large class of intelligent citizens in this and other countries who are seeking to establish forces wtiich shall arbitrate questions between nations so as to tlo away with war: to do away w'lth this great question of force and to sul)mii everywhere lo the question ol reason, to the question of whether il is right or wrong; and I hope that the day is coming when Ihe question of force will be done away with; when it will be said that government is not maintained by force but by the will of the people; that it is not maintained by bayonets but by the ques- tion of what is right and proper; and the people are to decide that by their voices, allowing the majority to control. While women advaiic:' 111 education in this country lliey have advanced m employments als.j. But a few years ago a woman was considered after she became of age only fit to sit in tfie parlor and \Vait for somebody to come and select her for a wife: but now in the cities, nearly one-half of the clerical force i.-. composiHi of women, and in such large mercantih^ establishmenls as llial of Marshall, f^'ield & Co. of Chicago, somethmg o\er one-half of the clerical force are women, and they bear teslimon\' that in every business they equal their brothers in every particular and are not as dissipated and not as liable to be false to ttieir trusts. In the field of literature women are contributing every day. They are writing as many books that are ac- ceptable to the public as men. in the professions, in the city of Chicago three years ago there were thirty women who were regular practitioners of inedicine. regular graduales of the best medical schools of the counlr\. 1 remember years ago when there could not be a woman admitted into a medical school in the L'nited States, and of those that studied medicine and vv(>re really fully qualified to practice, there was not a regular physi- cian Ihal would consult with one of them. I happened lo iin^et one of those ladies, who was a physician in Chicago and 1 asked her how it was now, and she said that there was no trouble upon that point, that the regular physicians consulted with them the same as they did with llii'ir male brethren. In several of the cities there are women who are practicing law and practicing it acceptably; there are Wiomeu who are conducting busi- ness and conducting it on business principles and have an liouorable busi- ness reputation. In the fields of charily, why take in the mother church, the Catholic Church of this country, and four-fifths, if not nine-tenths, of all the charitable and educational mstiliilions of that church are in tlie hands of women; I believe nine-tenths of Ihem, of Ihe educalional and idiarilable institutions are in Ihe liaiuls of women. Take in Ihe olhi-r churches of the country. Why, here the other day I saw one (d the most conser\ative of religious deiiominalions iii the l'nited States, the Community brethren had ordamed a woman as a preacher. Vou have had here in Montana Territory in Ihe lasl few months a woman that has been preaching most acceptatiiy lo cerlaiu congi'egalions and tliei-e has been no cry raised by men as lliere used to be of old, who quote Irom St. Haul ttial women must iiol hi' allowed lo speak in Ihe church. .Men and women have lislened lo her words. Why, in the ijolilienl arena in Ihe last campaign .\nna Dickinson was eniploy(>d by Ihe Hepublican Cenlral Com- mittee of ,New Nork in the inleresl of tlie Hepublican parly to cam ass that State, and no sjjeaker throughout the land had larger audiences lo listen to her words than she had. That Was in the arena (d' politics she a|v peared and not as a woman's riglits leclurer. .\ poor girl, a si reel sweeper CONSTI ri TIONAI, CO.WEMIO.N lS.S'j 455 II! Ptiilailclpliia. rises up and becomes the teacher of imii m the world or politics. In the common school systems of the country four-fifths of the teachers are women. 1 know it was said here yesterday or the day Ijefore yesterday that this matter of teaching, the matter of education was a part of the nursery of the country, but the matter of educatimi in- terests the churches of the land: the matter of eilucatinu disturbes Bis- inarcli. the matter of education has the consideration of the people of ^liaiii. tile matter of eilucatmn is being agitated in Parliament in England and I tell you that the matter of education is somethmt; more than be- liinys to tlie nursery. It is a tlimg that calls for the best and the high- est attention and intelUgence of thinking men. and yet in this sphere women have almost monopolized that profession. I'hey are teaching anJ moulding the minds of the young. .Now in regard to this matter 1 know Ihal thi're are many men in the country wilio oppose, abuse woman suf- frage that are actuated by as knightly principles as ever actuated the f nigtits of old. ']"lie thing is ttiey don t want women to be subject to the rough treatment of men. They would sooner, if it was in their power, make for ttiem beautiful homes and place them there as queens, and tliey may be able to do that with their wives and tlieir daughters and sisters, bvil how with the great majority? They must do something. .\re they to sit still and with folded hands wait for somebody to come and say to them "will you be my wiU'!" Are you going to let them ex- ercise their energies and take a part in the affairs of life, and if you are, why not in public affairs? Do tliey lack in sense? 1 cannot see tiiat they do. 1 do not beliexf that it will make such a great difference as some iiieii think, or that- they will reform the world. I believe that perhaps they will have some influence upon public affairs as they have had upon literary affairs. There may be some tendency to purify jjublic affairs. W hen men lia\ e women constituencies, they will not be boorish and rough in public affairs but wit! be gentlemen — That was the effect upon the literature of the country, and it may ha\e that effect upon public affairs. But they have [jroperly. they have lives that need protection; they have liberty that needs protection: tliey have a right as men to pursue happiness, fht-y have a right to Ihal property, and the object of ail government is to protect property, to protect liberty, to protect life and to protect people in the pursuit of happiness. That is the objective govern- ment, and that being the objective government why should we not allow them to participate in it? 1 believe that the women in the United ! shall not have the same riehts there as the men? If you make them eipia! in all other things with men then why exclude them from this righl of suffrage? .As I have saivl let tlie world grow. It has grown up to tliis and it will grow in the future, and in my judgment the time will come when women will be entitled to this privilege all over tliis land: and 1 believe in leaving it with tlie legislature to say when public sentiment is ripe for that matter that they may allow them to do it; to put it in the constitution so that it io(i I'HOGKKDINGS AM) DEBATES will lake tlirrc-liHirllis til tlir i]('ii|j|i' [n yivc tlifiii thai rij^lit. Let il In- si> that il will be simply a majority of the people wlio will grant Itieni thai right. Tlie majority should govern. I have said what 1 wish to say upon this. I hope that if we do not succeed today that tomoirow we w-ill succeed upon tliis question. Tlie world grows; it hi-iiihtens. ReligiOii IS changed, politics have changed, and the views of men are changing; imd in due time 1 tielieve they will change upon this (]uestion. .Mr. Joy. of Park: I iiionc you. sir. Ilinl we take a ri>cess niilil two o'clock. The motion was seconded. the Chaii' put the (lui'slmn mi llir slikI million of llir unil leinan Irom l^ark .Mr. .joy and a \iili' liriMi: laki'ii the same was declari'd carried. The convention took a recess unlil two 1'. .M. Tuesday, July :{0(li, 1889. .Afternoon Session. The con\eution was I'alled to order by the President at two P. M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The convention had under consideration the amend ment offered by a gentleman for Missoula (.Mr. Bickfordi to Section 2 of Proposition No. 14. The tiuestion before the convention is upon the adop- tion of the amendment. -Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President. 1 expect to Mile for this amendment, and perhaps will find no better time for explaining my vote than at this time. The discussion of this iiuestion is far adxanced and 1 cannot reasonably hope that my opinion will prevail against the superior judgment of this convention, as expressed in the Committee ot the Whole. I must confess that I am one of those who have not found il any easy matter to escape the arguments of those who have iirge.l that the right of suffrage should be conferred upon women. The argii ments in the main have been fair and if not convincing have certainly been most interesting and plausible, and yet, with my present informa- tion. I would not consent to the proposed enlargement of tlie political franchise, if 1 were in the legislature, much less to its establishment as on inexorable principle in the conslitnlion. The reasons for denying it now are manifold and obvious. Oiii^ reason, however, is controlling witli me. We are just launching: the ship of slate. The primary and ])araniouiit consideration with us in admission into the Union. We have long cried and clamored for the supreme hour when we might formulate our fun- damental law and be received into the family of slates. The hour has arrixed. and, m my judgment, it is neither wise nor expedient for us '>o load down our constitution with this much mooted question. Our work must be first ratified by tlie jieople l)efor(> it has any binding force. We should be circumspect and discreet if we desire it to meet with popular appro\al. IjCI us leave the matter with the legislature. I.aler on we can tliscuss and provide for this emergency in the legislalui-e. If the de- mand shall be urgent and circumstances shall requii'e il. II was Ed- mund Burke, one of the wisest and inosi thoughtful men I hat ever ll\ed. who said thai statesmansliiti consisted in the science of circumstances. Circumstances may arise in the future when it will not only be policy but statesmanship to allow those who are intm-ested in good morals, law and order to exercise the ballot: but as I have already observed, I do not think the time has yet arrived in Montana. I yield to no man in my ap- preciation of woman or the proper estimate of her character and mfluenc' upon the world. 1 am not sure that any enlargement of political privil- eges would be a personal benefit to woman or elevate lii'r in the esteiMu of the world. She has always [lerforineil her part well. I would have her continue in the future what she has been in the past, the mother and minister of those sublime virtues, charily, liospltallty and Irutti, aroumt whom in poetry and in song the pra\er and praise of the good shall e\ er entwine, i .\])piause ' In her life and history we see a strength and beauty of characler tlial challenges onr admiralion and slimulales us to a nobler manhood. Memory \\\U ever delight to lifl the curtain of material life and Mew in visions of beauty. M in am, whom as the jiensive and faithful sister of Moses we can see imparl mg to I hat famous law-gix er that peculiar knowledge CONSTI TLTIONAI. C< ».\VK.\ i K ».N ISS9 557 d. \\ hen we with- draw that confidence and repose, and hedge in every possible exercise ot power by a constitutional prohibtiou, then may begin a suppressed struL;- gle of resistence by the people to the constituted authorities which may grow 111 volume and strength until the combined forces of the state can- not control its mighty efforts for freedom. In deference to this principle and no other 1 \ote tor this amendment. It does not concern me at this time whether woiiuin suffrage is right or wrong. It is purely a matti-r of princiiile. In conclusion, I hope I may be aljle to quote a few sen- tences from a recent address of a distinguistied citizen (if the south who, while he was speaking upon a different subji'cl, said some things which made a great impression upon me. While I was wondering what possible dangei- wiiiuen could be to the republic and why these gldomy forebodings of the future, so graphicaly pictured by some gentleman upon this floor, I came across that address. As near as I can recall it, he said: "The struggle for human rights never goes bacKward among English-speaking peoples. Our brothers across the sea have fought from despotism to lib- erty, and in the wisdom of local self-government have planted colonies around the world, i'his very day, Mr. Gladstone, the wisest man that has lived since >our .Jefferson died — with th(> lighl ot anolher woild beat in.: in his face .mlil he seems to have caught the wisdom of the Infinite, and lowers half human and half divine from his eminence— this man. turning away from the traditions id' his lite l.iegs his counlrymeii to strip the crown ot its last usiiriied aulhorily and lodge it with Ihe people, wlirr.' It, bekings. '-I'h(> trend of the times is with us. 'I'he woi'ld moves steadily from glo(im lo hrightni^ss. .\nd bending down humbly as Elislia did. and praying that my eyes shall be maile to see. I catch a \ision of tliis re|iublic — Its mighty forces in balance, and its unspeakable glory falling on all its children — chief among the federation of Englisli-speaking j)eople — plenty streaming from its borders, and ligtit from the mountain tops — working out Its misson under (iod's approving eye, until the dark continents are opened — and the highways of eartli are ostablislied, and the shadows lifted — and ttie jargon of tlie nations stilled and Ihe perplexities of Habi'l sli'aightened — and under one language, one liberty and one (iod, all the nations of the world harkeniiiig to the American drum beat, and gii'd ing up their loins, shall march amid the breaking of llie millennial dawn into Ihe paths of righleousness and peace. (Applause; Mr. Aiken, of Silver Bow: I have always been opposi'd to woman's suffrage, but I believe I will change my mind, as women sometimes do wlien they marry men to gel rid of them. I shall vole "yes" on this question when it comes up. (Applause' CONSTl'ltJTlO.NAL C(h\VENTl().\ I.S89 45'.) Tho Presjtlent: I'tip f|UPstion bdcre tlie ('(invcntinii is upon Iho anifiKlinont otTercil by a gentleman from Missoula (Mr. Hieklord . .Mr. Joy. of Park, asked fo liaM' (he amendmiMit i-eaii. The Clerk read the same. .Mr. Joy, of Park: 1 would like lo ask if an amendment would be \n order? The President: This is an amendment to an amendment offered by the Committee of the Whole. An amendment will not be in order. Mr. Conrad, of (.noteau: I eall for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objeetion lli(> ay(^s an, Knowles. Loud, .Mc.Vdow, .Muth. .Myers. Parberry. Rickards, Sar- gent, Toole. Jos. K.: Warren, Watson, Mr. President — 33. -Nays — Burns, A. 1^'.; Callaway, Cardwell. Carpenter, Courtney, Cra- ven, Durfoe. Dyer. Gaylord. Graves. Hammond. Hartman, Haskell, Hogan, ,iov. .loves. Kcnnc'dv. Kohrs. fAice, Maginnis. Marrion, .Marshall, Mayger, .Mi'tclicl'l, Kamsdell. Reek. Robinson, Rotwitt, Schmidt, Stapleton, Whitehill, ' Winston, Witter— 33. Absent — Brazleton, Dixon, Eaton, Hershfielil, Knippenberg, Middleton, Toole. J. R.: paired — Gibson, Webster — 7. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion lo adopt the amendment of the gentleman from Missoula (.Mr. Bickford' as lost. .Mr. Joy, of Park: I would like to offer an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Park (Mr. Joy desires to offer an amendment to add to Section 2 "Provided further that the I^egislature is empowered to submit to a vote of the people not oftener tlian once in four years the tpicstion of woman suffrage, and if a majority at any such election stiall lie in favor of extending the elective franchise to women it .-hall be so extended," T'he motion was seconded. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I think that covers the same ground exactly as the original amendment we voted on. I think it is out of order. Mr. Joy, of Park:. .Mr. President, in ex|)lanalinn of that amendment which 1 have offered I sim|dy want to say this, that it has been suggesle.l around here that the Legislature has that iiower anyhow. 'J'hal is the very reason that I have offered the amendment in the form that I hav,'. I think it IS proper to make some provision lo prevent tins being submit- ted to the people at every election that may come up. I tlon't think it is advisable to do that, and so I have provided in that amendment that it may be submitted to the people not oftener than once in four years. 1 think that will be as often as the people will want to vote on that propo- sition. Now, Mr. President, in relation to this proposition we have heard a great deal about it, and 1 have refrained from saying anything. The members here present ought certainly to be willing that a majority shall rule. With all that has been said about the chi\alry of men. etc.. I agree, but I say that wlien the time gets ripe, when this polden hour comes that we have been promised is about to come, when that time comes, when Ihe people of Ihe slate of Montana want the women lo go to the polls and vote, and when they are willing to indicate it by tlieir ballots. I will be niie of those lo vote for ttiat proi)osition. but I \eiiture to say. Mr. President, that at this time there are not five members of this body who hav(> come to Ibis convention mslnuded In fa\or of woman's suffrage. I do not think there are five men her who lia\i' been ad\ised b>- their constituents that they are in fa\or of this proposition, and who asked them to put that question Ihrougli. It will be admitted on all sides that if it was submitted to a \nU' of the people today it would not be adopted. .Now. I am satisfied that this body doe.s not represent the people. The people of the State of .Montana or the Territory of Monlana are not equally divided on Ihis ((ueslinn. It is liable to be the case in Ihe Legislature. The next one that meets may be nearly equally divided on this proposition, or there may be in fact one or two majority in favor of ii. That will not indicate that the time is ripe, it would not be the voice of the people. It is not 460 PROCKEDINCS AM) DEBATES k'aving it In (lif voice (if the poo]j|i>. It is li'axintr il tn a littlo lioiiy oi men in tlie Legislative Asseniljly, and 1 am in I'avin' nt leaving it willi the people wholly, so that tliey may vote upon it as (hey see tit. That is the object ot that amendment which I have ottered, and I trust that il will prevail. Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow, asked thai llic ameiKJiiieiit be read. The Clerk read the amendment. .Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis ^: Ulark: .Air. President, I voted against the amendment just voted down for the same reason that I shall vote against this, because it proposes to take away the decision of this great question, for it is a great question, from the people at any time the Legislature may allow them to vote upon it. I would go back into the arguments pro and con on woman suffrage. I agree with most that has been said by ttie gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Ivnowles' and Lewis & Clarke (Mr. J K. Toolei today except in one particular. I could not especially agree with my friend, or with the gentleman. Judge Ivnowles, who pictured the millenium as about arriving, and when he was describing that committee of benevolent old gentlemen wlio proposed to settle all disputes in this world by arbitration, my mind went across the water where I saw the embattled hosts of Germany with Bismarck at their head, the embattled hosts of Russio, t^'rance grappling the issues of the hour with her armies, Austria enrolling every man, and every other country in the world enrolling their citizens in such military strength as never was known before in the hist(jrv of the world. When I contemplated that vision I did not think that the element of force had iMitirely disappeared from the government of nations: and while he stated that our constitution was peaceably adopt- ed he forgot to state it was only adoptiHl oecavise our fatliers foui'.;lil for eight long years in order that Ihey might win a victory which would make il possible for them to adopt a constitution of their own. .\iid to show that our own country is not dilferenl from any other cuuulry. to sujj- port and maintain thai constitution and the Union that was fcn'med under it, we had the bloodiest War that ever ensanguined the pages of the his- tory of this century. Mr. President when you take the silvi-r dollar out of your pocket and look upon it you will not see the dove, I lie evang"l ol the millennium which these gentlemen have so beautifully painted; you will see there the eagle, the emblem of the force of the government, and you will see the talon of the eagle, to show that the supremacy of tie- government is behind that. It is the emblem of your institutions. I am sorry that this is so. but so it is. And, Mr. President, 1 was opposed to th" r.meiidment that was just adopted a few moments ago for the very rea- sons almost that were given by the advocates of the measure, among them my good friend Mr. Hickards Who said he did not want this ques- tion submitted to the people because the saloon element would always be against if. Why if those men, whether they keep saloons or not have a right to vote at all, they have a right to vote on all questions. If we have not the right to disfranchise them, we have not the right to oir- cumvenl them, i^egislatures like conventions are easily moved: a few glib tongues in the lobby, a few smiles from the gallery, or a few bouquets perchance seem to influence members considerably. (Laughter and Ap- jilausei. But great questions like these should not be settled in a moment either in a legislature or in a convention. They should go to the people of the country. Then it will not be a few men only who on the spur ot the moment without proper thought will take these questions up, but they will be discussed in books; they will be discussed in every news- paper; they will be discussed in the jiulpits and around every firesiiie. and the people will go to the jiolls as they ought to do and settle this (luestion as the people have settled all questions in the interest of human- ity, i hope, sir, that my ideas and Imiies for the growth of the race are as great as those of anybody, and it ttie lim(> comes whiMi I be people ol this country in their wisdom, when tins ebMiient of force is ellminati^d from human affairs: if the time comes when men do as Ihey ought to do, live in brotherly love upon this earth; if the confederation of men and tbe parliaments of the world so beautifully quoted by my frien.l from the speech of Mr. Grady are ever to be (-stablisbed and intellect and justice and virtue will reign supreme, why then let the people bestow Ihe right of suffrage upon everybody, t^ut I am one of those who believe that so long as there is anything in this world that is worth fighting for. men have to be ready to fight for it: at least that has been the experience COMSTITL ilO.NAL CU.NVE.Mlo.X 1889 461 (il tlie nations iiiJ U.i this lime. But now. Mr. Prii'Sitleiit. I am opposed lo Itiis resolution beeause it eurtails tlie power of the legislature. If the people want to vote on tins at every election, 1 say let them do it, and let them decide it the way they want to have it. 1 am in favor of leaving il to the people of the State of .Montana. , .\pplause . -Ntr. Hickards of iSilvei' How. I hope the amendment will not prevail. W e have before us proposition .No. 18, and in tliat proposition we have these words "any amendment to this constitution may be proposed in either house of the legislative assembly, and if Ihe same shall be voted for by two-thirds of the nieinbers elected to I'acli house, such proposed amend- ment, tog-ether with the ayes and nays" and so on. Now, .Mr. President, n;y good friend from ielowstone County ought to be attorney enough to know that this proposition or amendment is in confict with all t?tate constitutions, and that was the reason why tliC friends of this measure thought it well to leave it in the hands of the legislature. I wish to set myself aright on any proposition. I think the eloquent gentleman who has just spoki'ii has put me in a false light — 1 am not in favor of disfran- chising any man or set of men, I made the statement and I reaffirm wliat i said this morning that on any proposition like this that has for Its object the elevating of man, the uplifting of society, has always ar- rayeil against it the saloon element of this or any other country, and for that reason, recognizing the fact that this element generally con- trol, to our shame be it said, more than one-third of this great com- monwealth, we wanted it left in the hands of the legislature where it has been. By a vote of this body that amendment did not prevail, and I hope that this amendment offered by Mr. Joy, inasmuch as it will be in conflict with Proposition .No. 28 which I apprehend we will adopt as a part of the constitution, and will be unconstitutional, will not prevail. He knows and we all know that the proposition could not be submitted by a vote of the legislature and I shall vote against the amendment offered by Mr. Joy. One other word — Mr. Joy said a good deal about the time not being ripe for this. That is evident by the vote taken here already, and while there is no disposition on my part to deal unfarily with anyone, seeing tliat we attempted to pluck this luscious fruit before it wa.s ripe, I am willing now to submit to a vote of this body, and I move the previous question. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I gave way to you and now you want to shut me off. .Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I beg pardon. 1 will yield to the gentle- man. .Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: .\o; sir: you have made two speeches on It already, and you can have the benefit of them. .Mr. President: The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Park. .Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I mo^ e the call of the house before we proceed to vote upon this question. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge uMr. Robinson and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The question now is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Park. The gentleman from Silver Bow demands a previous question. The (luestion before the convention now- is shall the main question be now put. The Chair then put the said question on the motion of the gentleman from Sliver Bow .Mr. Rickards and a vote being taken the same was de- clared carried. The President: The question is now on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Park (Mr. Joy). The Chair then put the said question on the motion of the gentleman from Park .Mr. Joy' and a vote being taken the same w-as declared lost. .Mr. Luce of Gallatin sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Gallatin moves to amend Sec- tion 2 by inserting in line two after the word "ele^'tions" the following "and at such other elections, and upon such propositions as may be pro- vided for or proposed by the legislative assembly. The motion was seconded. 402 PHOCKEDINGS AM) DEBATES .Mr. Cdllms of Cascade: That iuuUlt lias lircn i-niisitlprnl and voted down. Mr. Hobinson, of Deer Lodge: This liroposilinii seems In me like the i^illmt; of a snake; the tail never dies until sunset, and a jnnit snake. If you kill them lliey enme together again. Propositions like these don"t often die until sunset, and it seems lliat they are trying vej-y hard to get Itiem together again. .Mr. Luce, of (iailatin: 'J'he question oi snakes is iml ln'fore the house. There is none in my vole. (Laughter The President: Ihe amendment last offered by the genlleman from (Gallatin (Mr. Luce) was voted down Ihis morning as offered by the gentle- man from l^ewis & Clarke as follows: "l^'or all officers tlial now or here- alter may be elective by the people, and upon all questions that may be subimtted to a vote of the people." The (_;ierk will now read the amend- ment of the gentleman from Gallatin. The Clerk read same. The President: The Chair is of the opinion that this latter amend- ment embodies the same proposition as the former. Having been voted upon once the Chair is of the opinion that it cannot be entertained without a reconsideration of the former vote. -Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: 1 think upon a careful reading of the matter by even my friend who told the snake story it will show that there is some grave error committed here by limiting the vote to those upon whom the franchise has been conferred. .Mr. flobiiison, of Deer Lodge: I object to it. I think we have rung the changes on it often enough. .Mr. Marrion. of .Missoula, sent up a substitute for Section 'J. The President: The gentleman from Missoula offers a substitute for Section 2 as follows: "Section 2. Every male citizen of the United Stales and every male citizen of foreign birth who may have declared his inten- tion to become a (ntizeii of the United Slates according to law, not less than one year nor more than five years before he offers to vote, who is over the age of twenty-one years, possessing the following qualifications, shall be entitled to vote at all elections by the people. First, he shall have resided in the state one year immediately preceding th(^ election at which he offers to vote. Second, he shall have resided in the county, city or town where he offers to vote at least sixty days immediately "preceding the election." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I think that is the proposition that has already been passed on by the Committee of Ihe Whole of the house, and I do not think that amendment should go in. The President: A question passed on by the Committee ol (he Whole can be considered again in convention. Mr. Robinson, of \)ccv Lodge: 1 llimk il has been considered in con- vention. The President: iNo sir. 1 think not. -Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis t^ (Clarke.: Mr. Presidenl. I call lor llie ay>^^s and nays. The Presidenl: If I here be no oh.jerlion Ihe ayes and nays will l:i'' entered on the journal. 'J'he Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .Ayes — Hickford, Conrad, Hershtield, Jvolirs, Luce, Maginnis, Marrion, Marshall, Rolwilt, Toole, J. R.: Winston — II. iNays — Aiken, Breen, Jirowne, Bufonl, Hullard, Burleigh, Burns, .V. h'.: Burns, A. J.; Burns, Edward: Callaway, Caldwell, Carpenler. Cauby, Chess- man, (Collins, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Durfee, Dyer, I'ield, (iaylord. tiibson, Gillette, (ioodard, Graves, Hammond, Hartman, Hatch, Hickman, llobsoii, Hogan, Joy, .loyes, Kanouse, Kennedy, Knowles, Loud, .Mayger. .Mc.'Vdow, Milchell, Myers, Mutli, Parherry, Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson, Hick- ards, SargenI, Schmidt, Slaplelon. 'i'oole, ,los. K.; Warren. Watson, Whid^- liill, W liter, Mr. President— 57. -Absent — Brazleton, t^raven, Ealon. Haskell, Kinppi'iilieii;, Middlelon. Webster — 7. > The t;hair announced Ihe voh' and llie substitule id' the iji'iil lemaii from .Missoula iMr. .Marrion was derlareil lost. Mr. Collins, of Cascade, sen! up an aiiieniimenl. CONSTITLTR).\AL CO.NVKM'IO.N 1880 463 Tlic Prcsiilciil: I'he ^•'iitleinan from Cascade (Mr. Collins oflors to ami'iiiJ by .striking out all al'ler tlie word "povver" in lino six of Section •>. I'he motion was seconded. .\Ir. Collnis. of Cascade, called for the ayes and nays. The President: II there be no objection, the ayes and nays will be I'litered on the joiil'iial. The Clerk called ihr roll. The vole stood as tollnws: Ayrs — llunis. .\. I-'.: Colliiis. Parberry. Kobinson — 4. iNays — Aiken. tSicklord, Bfcen. Bruwiie. 1-iuford. Bullard. Burleigh. Burns, .\. J.; Burns, K.: Callaway. Card well. Carpenter. Cauby. Chessman, Conrad. Cooper, Courtney. Craven. Duilee. Dyer. I-'ields. Gaylord. Gibson, (jillette. Goddard. Graves. Hammond. Hartman. Hatch. Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson. Hogan, Joy, .loyes, Kanouse. Kennedy. Knowles, Kolirs. Coud. Luce. .Maginnis, Marrion. .Marshall, .Mayger. .\lcAdow, Mitchell. .Mutli. .Myers, Itamsdell, Hi-ek. Rotwitt. Hickards, Sargent. Schmidt. Stapleton. Toole. Jo.s. K.; Toole, J. H.: Warren, Watson, W hitehill, Winston. Witter. .Mr. Presi- dent— 64. Absent — Brazleton. Dixon. Eaton. Haskell, Ivnippenberg, .Middleton, W ebster — 7. The Chair announced the \iite on tln' amendment of the gentleman from Cascade .Mr. Collins and the same was declared lost. .Mr. Schmidt, of Silver Bow, sent up an amendment which the Clerk read as follows: Strike out in line six, Section 2. the sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth words. The motion was seconded. -Mr. Schmidt, of Silver Bow: The section would read after amend- ment thai no person convicted of felony \wiuld liave the right to vote unless he has been pardoned. The amendment strikes out the words "by the proper pardoning power." The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver How ;.Mr. Schmidt and di\ision being called for flie same was de- clared carried by a vote of thirty in the affirmative to twenty-three in the negative. The President: It there are no other amendments to be offered to the section, the amendment of the Committee of the Whole, which is in the form of a substitute, will be adopted, and the substitute stands adopted as a part of the proposition. We will now pass to the other amendments, if any. offered by the Committee of the V\'hole. The Clerk read as follows, strike out m line two the word "two"" and insert the word "one." .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move the ailoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out all of section nine in the original printed copy. -Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. 'i'he Chair put the question on the said mcdion and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 10 by inserting in line one the words "shall have the power to '" and inserting after the word "pass" m the same line the words "a registration and such other" and after the word "laws" iii the same line the words "as may be necessary.'" .Mr. Bickford. (d" .Missoula: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and a \ote being taken I he same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend Section 11 by inserting after the word "hold " in the first line the words "The office of County Superinten- dent of Schools or." Also strike out first seven words of Section 11. "the Cegislative .\ssembly may pass laws allowing" and insert after the word "women" in same line the words "shall be eligible" and strike out the words "the right." Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow, asked the reading of the section as amended. The Clerk read the same. 464 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES Mr. JNlarshall, oi Missoula: I waul tu sugyest an amciiduu'iit lo thai section. U is not igood language to say "Thi' women sliall Ije eligible to vote" and 1 move to insert the words "and stiall have the right lo vote." Mr. Mc'Adow, of l'"ergus, sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Fergus otters an amendment as follows: Amend Section 10 b.v adding the tollowing "and the Legislative Assembly is empowered hereafter to e.xtend the rights of suffrage to all citizens of the United States over twenty-one years ot age, without regard to sex, provided that women shall not be liable for military or jury duty, nor shall they be eligible for any office, except that pertaining to schools." The motion was seconded. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: If 1 understand that correctly it gels right back to the proposition that has been voted down in Committee of the Whole and in this convention enfranchising women for the purpose of general elections. 1 understand that is the meaning of this amendment. If it is, it IS not the proper subject of action by the convention; it is out of order, and under the cover of this one section in regard to the right to hold school office, and to vote at school election reaches back and includes the other — the right to vote generally and at all elections; and if that is the case the proposition is out of order. 1 desire it to be read again for that purpose. The Clerk read the amendment as offered by the gentleman from I'ergus (Mr. McAdow). Mr. Robinson, of Doer Lodge: Ves sir, that was just the very propo- sition that was voted down in this convention. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 think it is another snake. The other halt of the snake was the part the gentleman liad in his boots; this is the one he had in his hat. (Laughter) The President: Tlie Chair unilerstands that the proposition embody- ing the substance of the former amendment as voted down was in reference to referring the matter to the Legislature. This is a direct proposition to extend the right of suffrage to everyone without regard to sex and hence the Chair is of the opinion that it is so different in cliaracter as to admit of its being offered as an amendment. Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: I think that was the same proposition that was voted down. The President: It was voted down in the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: If the Clerk will read the proposition, 1 think it is similar. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: 1 desire to explain to the geiitlemun who interposed this objection that it is not the same proposition nor anywhere near the same proposition. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 desire to suggest this tu the Chair that this section as sought to be amended relates to the right of women to hold office in connection with the public schools and to vote at school elections; that this reaching back and extending for general purposes is not germane to the cpiestion under consideration and cannot be incor porated in it. The President: The Chair holds, unless, as the gentleman from Deer JjQdge suggests, there has been a previous question voted down which he is not aware of that the amendment offered by the gentleman li'om Fergus, is an amendment that may be admitted upon this section generally. He holds the point of order raised by the gentleman from Deer Lodge that it IS not germane to this section, is well taken; so that the gentleman's proposition will be entertained if he wishes to offer it as a substitute, or as an amendment to the file in some projier place. Are I here aii\ oilier amendments? Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: I propose, Mr. Chairman, to insei-t after the word "and" in the second line "shall have the right to." It strikes me that to say women shall be eligible to vote is not altogether proper, and It will read then "women shall be eligible to hold the office of county superintendent of schools in any school district, and have I he right U> vole at any school district election." The President: The gentleman tiom Missoula offers to amend Section 10 by inserting after the word "and in the second line, tlic wdnis "shall have the right to." The motion was seconded. CONSTITl lin.NAL COiNVKNTlUiN 18«9 465 Thij Chair put tlie qui'stion (jii tlie motion of thi' yi'iitlriiiaii Iroin Mis- soula iMr. iMaisliall and the same was declared carried. Mr. iMayger, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 have an amendment to f>ectioii 10 that 1 would like to offer. The l^resKleiit : The gentleman from Lewis iS: Clarke \Mv. iMayger; offers to amend Section 10 by inserting after the word "of" in line one the words ■■suiierintendeiil of public instruction"' instead of "coulily superintendent of scliools." The motion was seconded. The Cliair stated the motion. .Mr. .Mayger, of Lewis i!^ Clarke: This amendment is intended to allow a lady to "become a candidate for superintendent of public instruction, i'here are a great many men here who favor the elective franchise for women. 1 am opposed to that, but I am not opposed to allowing them to take this office when they can fill it as perfectly as some of the meii. Therefore, 1 offer this amendment. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke iMr. Mayger, and a division being called for the same was de dared lost by a vote of 32 in the alTirmative to 33 in the negative. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Robinson, of L)eer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, I desire to amend thi' section by sti'ikmg out the words "county sui)ermteiident of schools' as they appear in the first line, i will state my reason for it and I think it a very good one. The motion was seconded. 'The President: The gentleman's amendment would deslroy the sense of the section. -Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I beg pardon of the coiuenlion. I with- draw my amendment. I see it reads in a different way. The President: The question now is as to the adoption of Section 10 as amended. The Chair put the question on the adoption of said Section 10, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 11 by inserting after the word "hold " in the first line the words "the office of county superinten- dent of schools or." Also strike out all of Sections i2. 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 and substitute therefor the following section: Sec. i2. Any person quali- fied to vote at general elections in this state shall be eligible to any office therein, except as otherwise provided in this constitution and subject to such additional qualifications as may be prescrbed by the Legislatve As- sembly for city offices and offices hereafter created. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow: 1 move to strike out I fiat word "person" and insert the word "citizen." I'he motion was seconded. The President: The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Hogan; to strike out the word "person"' and insert the word "citizen" m line one. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Hogan and the same was declared lost. The Clerk read as follows: Add to Section 12 the following: "In all elections held by the people under this constitution, the person or persons who shall receive the highest number of legal votes shall be declared elected.'" Mr. Rickards: I move its adoption, the motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (.Mr. Hickardsi and the same was declared carried. The President: This comprises all of the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole. Are there any other amendments now to bo offered to this file? Mr. .Mc.\dow\ of Fergus, sent up an additional section. The Clerk road as follows: "Additional section to Proposition No. 14, Section 13. The Legislative Assembly is empowered hereafter to extend the rights of suffrage to all citizens of the United States over 21 years of age. without regard to sex: provided tliat w'oinen shall not he liable for military or jury duty, nor shall they be eligible for any office e\cppt that pertaining to schools."' Hit; I'HOCEEUl.XCiS AM) DEBATES Mr. liiiDIIlSiiU. (il UriT l,iiil;:r: 11 siTiiis In lur lliul hlls lircn Mili'il Dii, Uic i'L>;lil, III' the Legislature (u exleiid sullra;;!' Id Wdiiieii. I'lie cliaiiges have lieen rung (iii it ill two or tliree ihllereiil ways. Mr. BielvlonJ, of .Missoula: If 1 uuderslaiul tlie otijection of tlii' i^eiitle- mau from Deer Lodge, it is tliat lliis is the same ijroijosition voted down tiy the convention. I wisii to submit to the Cliau' this lu'oposition, thai the oiigmal amendment offered by myself to Section 2 siniidy provided for tl»e rigtil. of suffrage being extended to women Ijy the Legislature. This is a proposition to e.xtend the right of suffrage lo them without restrictions placed upon it. I say, sir, tliat in view of the fact that it is essentially ii different idea from that contained m my ameiidmi'iit to Section 2, that this convention sliould have a right to voti^ u()oii the proposition, whether it IS carried or not. It places the iiuestion before the convention in a different light than that in which it was placed to my amendment. Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: I think, .Mr. l^resident, it contains the same proposition. It says "Shall not serve upon jury or be liable to mili- tary duty," if 1 understand it, and gives them the right to vote. It seems to me that the same proposition was voted down here in the convention. Mr. Joy, of I'aik: In view of the fact that this lias been before the bouse and been voted down a number of times, I move that that amend- ment be laid on the table. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Bui'leigh, of Custer, called for the ayes and nays on the motion Jl the gentleman from Park (Mr. Joy. ■J'he President: if there tie no nhjectimi Ibe ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Aiken, Burns, A. b'.; Burns, A, J.: Cardwell, Carpenter, Courtney, Craven, t)ixoii, Durfee, Dyer, Eaton, P'ields. Gibson, Cioddard, tjraves, tJammond, Hartman. Haskell, Hershfield, Hogan, Joy, Joyes, Ivennedy, Kohrs, Luce, Maginms, Marrion, .Marshall, Mayger, Mitchell, Hamstlell, Reek, Robinson, liolwilt. Schmidt. Slai)lelon, Winston, Witter— 3H. Nays — Bickford, Breen, Browne. Bulord, Bullard, Burleigh, Burns, Cal lawiay, Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, (iaylord, Gillette. Hatch, Hickman, Hobson, Ivanouse, Knowles, Loud, McAdow, Muth, Myers, Hick- ards, Sargent, I'oole, J. H.: Warren. Watson, Whitehill, Mr. President — 31. Absent: Brazleton, Knippenberg, Middletoii, Parberry, J. Iv. Toole, Webster — (3. I'he Chair announced the vote and stated that the motion of the gen- tleman from Park Was carried and proposition laid on the table. The President: There is now an amendment offered by the gentleman Irom Deer Lodge, Mr. Whitehill, as follows: Amend Proposilion .No. I 'i. Section 8, by adding after the word "person" in the first lini' (he following: "Nor any iierson while confined under sentence of a courl for any crime." 'J'he motion was seconded. The Chair stated tlie motion. The Clerk read the section as proposed to be amended as follows: Section 8. "No idiot or insane person shall be entitled to vote at any election in this state: nor any person while confined under sentence of a court for any crime." .Mr. Knowles, of Siher Bow: That would make a man wlm is simply confined under conviction for a simple misdemeanor, who could not pay S^ID.hO fine — that would deprive him of the right of suffrage, and I am op- posed to it. Mr. Wtiitelnll, of Deer Lodge: 'I'liat is just tlii> idea. Cmilnie linn in .lail and he has not any right to vote whatever. .Mr. Knowles, of Sil\er Bow: Vou do not say "confined in jail." Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: It reads "Nor while confined under sentence of a court tor any crime." If you put in "in jail" it will be super- fluous. He ought not to vote while he is in jail: he ought not to vote wliile he is under sentence. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: He may lake an appeal. .\ man nuglit be under sentence to pay a fine for assault and battery. Some of us here have rather uncontrollable temper's sometimes lliat niiglil get us into trouble at some time or anothiM'. Under tliis amendment, a person under sentence niiglil give bonds and slill he wmild be subject to the amendmeni : he could not vole; be miglil take an a|ipeal from llie dislricl courl for COXSTITL riU.NAl. CO.NVKM'KJX 1889 4(57 assault aiul battory to llic -luprcnic court, and lor a year lie miglit iml I)'' allowed to voto. \ou might get considerable men in trouble that way. .\lr. \\ riitelnll. of Deer Lodge: If he is under confuiement lie cannot vote anyhow, but frequently I have known where sheriffs have taken the jail birds out of jail and attempted to have them vote: and this prevents that officer from exercising any influence in elections, and from takinii lliese people from the jail, those who are confined for little misdemeanors, and taking tlieni down and voting them. I thmk that a person who is under sentence of a court ought not to be allowed to vote anywhere. .Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: It seems to ine that is provided for m the last words of Section 3: "Nor while confined in any public prison.'' The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge (.Mr. \\ hilehill and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: I'liat comprises all the amendments so far offered. If there are no further amendments. Proposition No. 14 may be placed upnn its final passage. Mr. W arreii. of Silver Bow: I move that Proposition .\'o. U be now placed upon its final passage. The President: If there be no objection. Proposition No. 14 will be placed upon its linal passage. The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken. Browne, Buford. Bullard, Burleigh. Burns. A. F.: Burns. Edward: Callaway. Cardwell, Carpenter. Cauby. Chessman. Conrad. Cooper. Courtney. Craven. Dixon. Durfee. Dyer, Laton. Fields. Gayiord. Gibson. Gillette. Goddard. (iraves. Hammond, Hart- man. Haskell. Hershfield. Hickman. Hobson, Hogan. Joy. Joyes. Kanouse. Jvcnnedy, Knowles. Ivnhrs. Loud, Luce. .Maginnis, .Marrion. .Marshall, .Maygei", .McAdow. .Mitchell. Parberry. Ramsdi'll, Reek. Robinson. Rofwitt, Rickards, Schmidt. Slapleton. Warren. Witter, Wat-son. W'hiteliill. Winston. Mr. President — til. Nay.s — Bickford. Burns, .\. .J.; Collins, Myers, Sargent, Toole. J. R. — 6. .\bsent: Brazleton. Breen. Hatch, Knippenberg, Middleton, Mutli. .J. K. Toole, Webster — 8. The President announced the vote. The President: Proposition No. 11 is adopted as a part of the constitu- tion of the state of Montana to be enrolled and referred to the Committee on Phraseology and Revision. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I now mo^•e you that this convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of file No. 2(i, Proposition .No. 27. article on Revenues and Taxation. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow .Mr. \\ arren and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President called Mr. .J. K. 'Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, to the Chair. IN COM.MlTi'EK OF THE WHDLE. .Mr. .J. K. Toole, of LewMs & Clarke, in the Chair. The coMimittee was called to order. The Chairman: The Committee has under consideration Propositi'Vi No. 27 Articli' on Revenue and 'Taxation. I'he Clerk will proceed to read the article section by section. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 27. Article on Revenue and Taxation. Sec. 1. The necessary revenue for the support and main- tenance of the slate shall be provided by the Legislative Assembly, which shall levy a uniform rate of assessment and taxation, and shall prescribe such regulations as shall secure a just valuation for taxtion of all prop- erty, except that specially provided for in this article. 'The Legislative Assembly may also impose a license tax, both upon persons and upon cor- porations doing business in the state. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: It seems to me that this section involves an inconsistency. In the first place, it provides for a uniform system of taxation. That I take it. is upon property. It then goes on to say the Legislature may impose a tax upon both [lersons and corporations doiiv.; 408 PHOCKEL)I.N(iS AM) DKBATKS tuisuicss 111 llir stall'. .Niiw. Willi Ihi.' rxi't'ijlimi ul Ikiuhi' Iu-i:iiscs and iKtensc's loi- gainbling. 1 am (ipposcd to ihis sysloiu of raising ri'M-iiue by iK^ensc. lor this roasoii, that, it is not unilorni. tW instance", you taliu two men who come into the i'l'rritoiy of Alontana here with $l(Ki,iMi(i each. One man pursues tlie occupation lo winch he was educated and he invests his money m a ranch, buildings, horses, cattle and peihajjs sheep. He stays I here and attends lo it himselt. He has an ad\aloruin tax assessed on his assets and he pays the lax, perhaps tw^o or three per cent on the dollar. .\nother man comes in who lias been raised to a dillerent occupation. Ho lias a like amount of money. He invests a portion in buildings, a iiortion ill merchandise, a portion in a hotel, perhaps, and other industrial juirsuits of that kind, and he is taxed precisely the same as the otlii'r man, say two or three per cent on the value of his property, and he pays thai tax. Well, now, here is the way the system works. If this license system prevails as it prevails at present, while oni; man pays a lax on liis properly, thai is, what he has, the other man not only pays his tax on his property, but he lias lo pay a license for the privilege of attending to his business. It is unequal because it required one man to pay taxes upon the property ac- cording lo its value and the other man lo pay the same lax and then ta.xes his business in addition. It is not republican, it is not democratic, and there should be some system pro\ided by which that should be obviated. 1 know men m my own and other counties who have brought money in here and mvesleu il in slocks, in farms and in buildings, who are taxed and who pay their taxes. They would come in and put up those improve- ments: they bring in their stock of goods, and they are not only taxed for the value of the property, but they are compelled to pay a license for the privilege of carrying on the business. 11 is all wrong, and 1 think the matters should be changed in order to make il more uniform. The Chairman: The Chair has indulged the gentleman from Custer so far, but there is nothing before the committee. Mr, Burleigh, of Custer: 1 move to strike out in Section 1, line '>, the words "both upon persons and" so that it will read "The Legislature may also imposi' a license tax upon corporalums doing fiusiiiess in the state." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Hickards, of !:?il\er Bow: I would like to ask I Ins geiitlenuui, though I am of the same opinion as he, if it is not a fact that his amend iiient does not cover the ground. The Legislature may also imiiose a license lax if they pleasebut who are Ihe Legislature going to impose the lax (■n if they do not impose it upon persons and corporations? 1 think Uie jirinciple, Mr. Chairman, that the gentleman is aiming at, is just and proper. In the early history of this and other territories, Ihe license system was a necessity, but 1 lliiiik w'e have outlned the necessity, and 1 believe that the license system is radically wrong, and I for one am will ing to go on record on tliat proposition. I believe Ihe eiilire license system is WTong. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 wish to say but a few words and then I will yield to my friend from Deer Lodge, Mr. Toole. If our state govern- ment is bound to have so many luxuries, we must have some money to pay for those luxuries, and that stiould come from the proper source. If we slrike out all icense for doing business, il would cut off a \ery large por- tion of the revenue of Montana: it w'ould prevent us from licensing saloons, the liquor traffic and everything of that kind. If this amendment were to pass, if 1 understand il correctly, il would lake all license off Ihe slioiilders ol Ihe business and professional men of the community, and 1 do not se-,^ why all these avocations in life, professional men and men of business, should not help to contribute to the support of the gOM'rnmeiit. If tax'\s and ad valorum taxes could he made equal, then there would be some reason, but while that camiol he done, I Ihink il nothing hut right they should be taxed as always has been done in .Montana. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: It occurs lo me, .Mr. Cliairiiian, th.it if we should agree upon this amendment to slrike out I hose words, which certainly is something I do not beliexe it is llie purpose of this constitu- tion lo accomplish, if I understand the anu'iidment, it would lea\e the Legislature powerless to collect any taxes or any llceiisi! from saloons, and I am cerlainly of Ihe opinion, and I Ihink 1 am not mislaken. that ! d >t lliiiik it IS the intention of lliis convenlion to do anything of that CO.NSTITUTIO.NAL CU.NVE.M'IUN 1889 /iC9 laiiil. 1 believe, lurtlier, that one ol the greatest suuiees ol reveiiin: ami one ol the easiest collected is license tax imposed upon the business and professional men of the Territory, and I do not think the time lias come yet when we can afford to do away witli this provision that we have ior securing revenue. The means of i-aising revenue sufficient to meet the demands of the new stale and the necessary expense that will be incurred in state government is a question that is well worthy of consid- eration, and while it may be wise some time in the future to abolish this tax, yet my observation of the business of this Territory leads me to the conciusion that the license tax is just and is more readily collected than any other tax. My observation is that the class upon which the license lax IS levied in this Territory, as a class, are better able to meet the ijemands upon them in the shape of taxes than any other class of people 111 the Territory. As a rule, the farmers and ranchmen are not as pros- perous or as well-to-do as the merchant or saloonkeeper or any other man paying a license tax, and I think there would be a great objection to the ratifying of this constitution if this provision should prevail. Certainly. 1 believe that if we were to make a provision that would relieve saloons from taxation, the constitution of the state would be endangered, for I believe it is the unanimous feeling of the great majority of the people of the Territory that the liquor traffic should pay a good license. .Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin, sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Gallatin offers the following amendment: Insert after the word tax in line 5 of said section the follow- ing words: "for the regulation of the sale of intoxicating liquors and other occupations requiring police supervision," and after the word "state" on said line .5, insert "and no license shall be imposed for any other pur- pose whatever." Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: 1 mme the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: 1 just desire to say in support of my amendment that my only [jurpose was to meet the views of my friend froui Deer Lodge. .Mr. Toole, and that 1 heartily concur in the views he expressed. 1 am opposed to the license system, but I believe it is necessary for the regulation of the sale of intoxicating liquors and certain other occupations that the Legislative Assembly should have the power to regulate by licen.se those various occupations. The section as amended will read as follows: "The Legislative Assembly may also impose a license tax for the regula- tion of the sale of intoxicating liquors and other occupations requiring police supervision both upon persons and upon corporations doing business in the state, and no license shall be imposed for any other purpose what- ever." Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: 1 have some very strong doubts as to whether this would not be in violation of the provision of the constitution of the United States. A clause of the constitution of the United States requires that everyone shall be entitled to equal protection of the law. iSow, if you select one class of persons for taxation and leave another with- out taxation, 1 doubt its constitutionality. I believe that it ^4olates that provision. It does not make an equal protection of the law. 1 would like to have the gentlemen look that up before they put a provision of that kind in the constitution, discriminating as to persons who shall pay taxes. .Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: I should like to ask the gentleman whether the exercise of police power would interfere with the constitution in Ihat respect. Mr. Knowles. of Silver iiow: I di^ not think it would violate the con- stitution by the exercise of the police powers. It is a police regulation, and while police power extends to anything that will preserve the order or health of the community, you have selected out certain classes of busi- ness here for taxation, calling that the exercise of a police power. Carry- ing on liquor is a business in every form, and 1 think that we ought to hesitale before passing that amendment. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: .Mr. Chairman. 1 understand that this system of license originated here at a very early day in the nature of a police regulation. Some gentleman on this floor may remember the fact. I have a friend who came to this country xery early in the settlement of Montana, and he informed me that this license tax has its origin in this way: That ttiey were short of whiskey and short of tobacco, and they organized a 470 PROCKEDI.NGS AM) DEBATES soil or [joIkt lorcc t(i It'xy a cniilribulKin im all tlii' \vaj:;iin.s anil Icainslcrs and the pony Ircitrlits that were going thiou.gh hore, for tlie ijurposc ol raisuig tlic ai'tiL'les. and tlicy enforced it by very extreme measures sonie- tiines where the people refused to give up: and tliey found that this sys- tem of revenue supplied then' wants so far as whiskey was eoneerned. they found that there were a good many other wants that they wished to have supplied in that way, and it finally ripened into a sort of custom, and custom became law; and what we have here is tlie result of that system of espionage upon the peoi)le. iNow, if that is tht' case, I think it ought to li.- repealed. -Mr. Hobinson, of Deer Lodge: I think the gentleman from Custe;' understands public finances pretty well. Mr. Colins, of Cascade: I think we will be safe in leaving this matter to the Legislative Assembly. 'J'he taxes collected by license in the state of N'ermont pay all of these expenses. Taxes collected by license in (he state of \\ isconsm pay all of the expenses. There is not a single cent of ad valorum tax collected m Wisconsin to pay the expenst>s of the state. The great state of Pennsylvania collects nearly eight, millions of dollars of indirect taxation, and nearly all of the states of the Union which have made constitutions in the last twenty years or which have changed their constitutions collect a large part of their expenses in indirect taxation. The great state of Uhio at its last session of the Legislature passed by a two-thirds \ote. i think, in both houses of its Legislati\e Assemhily, an amendment to the constitution providing that a great share of its revenue may be collected by a license lax, and 1 have been told by a number of gentlemen from that state that that amendment to the constitution will be voted for and carried by a large majority. Experts upon (his matter, who have in late days investigated (his taxation question, without a dissenting voice, unanimously so far as I can learn, claim that the less ad valorum tax levied, the better it is for the state. Levy your license tax upon natural monopolies: levy your license tax upon all individuals and corpora- tions who are benefited by the state: levy your license tax upon all indi- Mduals and corporations that the state benefits, and you will receive not only m tliis Territory but in every state of the Union sufficient money to run your state governments the year round. It is not necessary that the Legislative Assembly shall levy a tax upon you or me for doing a grocery business or for doing a wholesale business, or for doing any other kind of legitimate business, and I do not believe the people of Montana will do It; but I do believe that a license tax pnipi'i'ly collected and as near equally adjusted as possible will almost pay the running expenses of this state today. We have over two thousand miles of railroad in the Terri- tory; we have se\en or eight thousand miles of telegraph lines; we have a number of miles of telephone lines; we have other industries in the Territory which can be taxed under this system, and taxi'd better than under any other system; and vVe will be making a move in the wrong lirection by striking the authority to levy taxes in "this manner out of our constitution. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from • iallatin (Mr. ttartmani and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 will withdraw my amendment. The Chairman; The amendment of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Burleigh I is withdrawn. The Clerk will read Section 2. The Clerk read Section 2 as follows; Sec. 2. The property of the United States, the state, couiilies, cities, (owTis, school districts, municipal corporations and public libraries shad be exempt from taxation; and such other property as may be used exclu- sively for agricultural and horticultural societies, for educational pur- poses, aclualplaces of religious worship, places of burial not us(>d or held for private or corporate profit, and institutions (d' purely public charity may lie exempt from taxation. The Legislative Assembly may, in its dis- cretion, exempt from taxation other property in addilion (o that herein spec tied, but, all exemptions shall only be by general law. Mr. Loud, of Custer: I have a substitute (hat 1 wish lo (dl'er for Sections 2 and 3. The Chairman: The gentleman frnm Custer iMr. Loud' offers the following as a substitute for Section 2 and 3. '".Ml iiroperty in the stale not exempt under the laws of the United States shall be taxed in propoi- tion to its \alui'. III lie ascertained as provided by law. The wonl "prop- CONSTITUTIONAL COiNVENTlON 1889 471 I", ty ■ as used in ttiis article and section, is hereJjy clpclared to include monies, crops, bonds, slocks, dues, Irancliisos, and all oilier matters anrl lliinc^, real, personal and mixed, capable ot private ovvnersliip; provided, lliai growing crops, properly used exclusively lor public schools, and .-iich as may belong to the United Stales, this state, or lo any county or niiuucipal corporation within Ibis state, and all buildings together wifii the lands upon which they are located, so long as they are used for placs oi public worship or lur charitable purposes, and do not exceed §2.3,(1011 in \alue: all cemeteries, etc., shall be exempt trom taxation. Mr. Kennedy, ot Missoula: I move the adoption of the substitute. Mr. J. 11. Toole of Iieer Lodge: 1 suppose the motive in introdiiciin: those two sections was to get at the proposition ot taxing mining properly. 1 trust It IS not necessary for me to take up much time in discussing this substitute, because there are some very apiu'Opriate reasons wliy it should not prevail. 1 apprehend, sir, that the gentleman who offered this resolu tion i^r this section, and others who may support it, are not perhaps aware of what the condition of the niiiimg interests in this Territory or coming slate IS or may be. I apprehend that they are not aware, perhaps, that it IS an utter impossibility to tax mines and assess tliem at any value thai can be agreed upon by any two persons as to what they are worth. I want to state for the information of the gentleman and others, that my business, so far as 1 have had a business here, is in that line t« a certain extent. I want to state that there are no two men in the same line of business, whether they may be assessors, mining experts or professors of mineralogy, that can come anywhere near agreeing on the value of mining property, liven the world-tamed mines, such as the liiaiute Mountain and the Ana- conda, and mines of that class, which perhaps those gentlemen imagine can be assessed upon a proper valuation, I desire to say that I believe it 1(1 be a fact that there are no two assessors in this Territory, each one tiasing a jutlgment upon his knowledge dt those mines, that can come within a million dollars of eajch other as to what they are worth. There are other phases of this question, too. There are a great many poor men who are making their living in this line of business, and it is a fact that they oftentimes have a property that they may value at SIO.OOO, ■§20,tXM3 or ••r^oOiliCHI, and thai might be assessed at that valuation, and nine times out 01 ten. It IS a safe assertion to make, that they are not worth fifty cents. And further tlian that, there is another and very potent reason, and that IS this, that 1 am satisfied it will defeat this constitution if placed before the people, because the people in the mining counties and people who understand the situation would think it worked a hardship to a large class of people: in fact, the people upon whom the Territory is dependent for Its very sustenance. The provision as provided for by the report of this committee is the same that is in force in all the constitutions of the dif- ferent states where mining is carried on to any extent. In Nevada, Colo rado. California and in the state of Dakota: and 1 want to assert again that there is no question in my mind that if this matter should be incorpor- ated, this section would defeat the ratification of the constitution in this Territory. 1 trust it will not be necessary for me lo go into further de- tails to show up this matter, because I believe it is apparent to the mem- bers of this convention who are familiar with mining in all its phases, and who hail from the counties where the mining interests prevail to a great extent. Tor that reason. I will not take up any more of the time of the convention, believing it is needless for me to do so and believing that this amendment as offered will not be supported by the vote of this convention. -Mr. Loud, of Custer: .My ob.ject in introducing this was simply llii-;. that on page 220 of the Ititli "regular session of the Legislative Assembly, a law was passed containing similar provisions to those contained in Sec. 3 of this Proposition No. 27. and as this law will remain in force unless repealed. I cannot see any object or any advantage to be gained by adopt- ing this Sec. 3. .Mr. Uershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, is Sec. 3 under discussion? The Chairman: Sec. 3 is not, but the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Loud offers a section to be called Sec. 2 which is a substitute for Sections 2 and 3. The Chair put the question on the motion ol the gentleman from Custer Mr. Loud.i and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. .Mr. Luce, of Gallatin, seni up an amendment. 472 PHOCEKDINGS AND DEBATES Tlie Cliairiiiau: The geutlcinaii li'cim Ciallaliu .Mr. Luci' oll'ecs tlii- lollowing: .XiiiL'iHl yeclion 'So. 2 by striking uiil all of tlii" .sci-dnu alli'i- llK' woi'd ■"taxation" ni line 5. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I move Ihe adoplmu of tlie anieiulmeiit. Tlie motion was seconded. Tlie Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Gallatin .Mr. Luce and a vole being taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendmeuts to Sec. 2, the Clerk read Sec. 3 as follows: Section 3. .\li mines and nulling claims, both placer and rock in placr. containing or bearing gold, silver, copper, lead, coal, or other \aluable inui- eral deposits, after patent shall haxe been issued therefor b.v the United Stales, shall he ta.xed at the price paid the United Stales therefor, unless the sui'face ground, or some part thereof, of such mine or claim, is used for other than mining purposes and has a separate and independent value for such other purposes, in which case said surface ground, or any part thereof, so used for other than mining purposes, shall be taxed at its value for such other purposes, as provided by law; and all machinery used 111 mining, and all property and surface improvements upon or appurten- ant to mines anti mining claims which have a value separate and inde- pendent of such mnies or mining claims, and the annual net proceeds of all mines and mining claims shall be taxed as provided by law. .Mr iiartman, of Gallatin: I move to strike out the word "net" in line 0 of that seclion and inseil the word "gross." The motion was seconded. The Chair pul the tiui'stion on the said motion of the gentleman from Gallatin (.Mr. Hartman.) and a vote being taken the same w^as declared lost. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I wash to offer an amendment to add to Section 3. The Clerk read the said amendment as follows: ".\11 canals, ditches and water courses constructed for the sole purpose of carrying w-ater for use in mining, irrigating and farming lands," etc. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I would like to ask the gentli'inaii if some great corporation should come into the country and build a niiniug ditch and collect a great revenue from the people for furnislimg waler, if they would not be subject to taxation under this".' Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: It provides that they shall pay on the net water rental w-hatever the water rental is. Mr. Magimus, of Lewis & Clarke: I was reading lately of an account of the people that owned the ditches that supply the farms in the vicinity of Greeley, Colorado, and the exactions they made upon the farmers there; and of all the species of landlordism and rack-rent in the world, it seemed to me that was the worst. They had a perfect grip upon the people; they charged exorbitant prices for water. 1 would not be in faMir of encourag- ing corporations of that kind. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: 1 would say. .Mr. Chairman, that we have already made the canals and water courses here public property, and they are liable to the control of the Legislature; they can fix their charges; and my idea for introducing this is to get capital to bring out water on llie and lands of .\iontana. Unless there is some provision of this kind. 1 do not thnk they would do it. A person could go to work and spend two or three hundi'ed thousand dollars and bring out water, with no settlers at all on the land, and he cannot see any immetliate prospect of a retuin for five or six years; -whereas, if it is provided that he w^ill not be taxed on the net water rental, whenever he gets a little, he will commence to pay taxes; and I believe it is as much of a public benefit to g(>t these arid laiids covered with water as it is to develop (he mines of this Territory. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I would not wish to do anything l.;> discourage capital in any such enterprise, but. I hope to see Ihe day come when the systems of irrigation shall he eithei' under Ihe conti'ol of tin' stale or of the United Slates for the purpose of hringing watrr upon our and lands; and I imdi'rstand the Committee on Irrigation has uiidei' con- sideration a memorial lo Congress in accordance willi the resolulion that I introduced, to ask the government of the U'nit.ed States to grant the arid lands, in order that their net revenues may be devoted to Ihe purpose of building canals; and that was to avoid that very thing. .Now. we are op- CONSTITH lU.XAL CUNVKNTION 1889 47J posed to landlordism; wo don't want any company or any corporation or any individual to own \ast tracks of the land on which they may have tinanls. But it seems to me that U the comiiauies or iiidi\iduals or cor- porations arc to own vast water courses, that it would be a species of landlordism id the worst kind, and 1 do not think that we should favor the principle. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: .Now, I claim, .Mr. Cliairman, that instead of fostering the bringing out of water ditches upon our lands by private corporations and by individuals, we should, if possible, stand out and by all means in our power, unite together to bring- that water out, and have It brought out by the state or by the government. If there is a moiioiioly on earth that is grinding, it is the monopoly of a great corporation that owns the water of an and country. 1 believe the constitution of the state ol .Montana should prohibit it, and 1 believe that thousands, yea, thousands upon thousands, hereafter will say "Uod bless the people who framed the constitution of .Montana.'"' If there is anything on earth that is a curse to a people. It is to allow a corporation or allow a few men to own the country, and you might say. own the people. The instance cited by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke i.Mr. .Maginnis in Colorado is a case in point. The valley around Greeley is as line a country as tliere is in this western country. .\ fe%v years ago it was self-supporting, but those water nuinopolists have got control of every inch of that water. They first commenced by charging such a fee as the farmers and manufacturers could stand; they commenced raising on that, and their profits were increased until today they do as they did twenty years ago, take everything but the bare substance, and that same policy will be in existence m Mon- tana if you allow this thing to go into your constitution. Mr. Hartnian, of Gallatin: I am opposed to the amendment for the same reason, among others, that 1 was opposed to the word "net" in the previous section. "Aet water rentals " simply means nothing. A corpora- tion which has within itself and among its officers all of the knowledge a.s to the transaction of its business will not probably find much "net" water rentals to pay the taxes upon, nor will the mine owners find any "net" proceeds from their mines to pay taxes upon; but that last matter lias been settled, and tfierefore there is no need of introducing it here again. But this thing of offering bonuses to corporations for the purpose of digging out canals and water ditches in this Territory is a mistake, [f there is any money in that kind of scheme, then they will come in and put It 111 without offering a bonus. .\nd it seems to me that if we intend to show any favoritism or sliow any preference here by our acts, let it be towards the citizens of the state, and not towards a foreign corporation, for tlie purpo.se of bringing capital in here. I agree with my friend from Cascade, IMr. Collins, that these water courses and water system should be under the control of the state, or under the control of the National Gov- ernment. For these reasons, I am opposed to the amendment. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: Both of these gentlemen tliat have just pre- ceded me have gone on and said a good deal about these corporations wanting to grind the people With excessive water rales. 'I'liere was a measure inlriiduced here, I think it has been passed, that water courses, and canals were made public property, and that water rental can be gov- erned by the Legislature; and 1 do not see what is the use of going on talking about that when it is in the hands of the Legislature to stop them. Heading "Water-courses, canals. resei\oirs. iS;c.. siiall be declared public property." The Cliairman: In tlie Declaration of Rights they were declared to be a public use. .Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: Well, it is stated here by the legal fraternity that by doing that the water rentals could be controlled by the Legislature. .Mr. tfartinan. of Gallatin: 1 think that is a stretch of construction. .Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I tliink there is no occasion to fear outside corpiirations or outside money constructing canals, any more than con- structing railroads in this country. .Now, sir, the committee will recollect tliat there is a proposition — I think it has been adopted by this convention — in the first place, permittuig or authorizing the County Comnussioners ot each County to regulate the tax or rental of water. That is one thing. We have the same law now upon our statute books, that all sale of water is to be regulated by the cnmmissioners of the several counties. The great tioutite in this Territory now is nol that we have too many water courses, 474 PROCEEDLNGS AND DEBATES or rallii'i'. wati'i- foursc. loi- tlio artil'ioial irrigation of our land, but tliat we have not enough. Some of the most persistent law suits t(3day arise out of the right of priority for the use of water out of some little stream. Tliere never has been any parlieulai' litigation that I know of in relation to the w-aters of a large stream, for instance the waters of the .Missouri, the waters of the West Gallatin, or the whalers of the Jefferson, nor any of those large streams that are still running downhill and doing nobody any good. .Now. if there is any enterprise that I think needs fostering in this Territory, it is that enterprise, whi<'h brings out water and reclaims arid land that is now desert and worthless for the very want of water. So long as the regulation of the rental or sale of this water is within the dis- position of the t,egislature. and within the control of the (Commissioners of the separate counties. I apprehend there is no danger of oppression to the people. If we could have this same hold upon other corporation.s. upon the common carriers of this country, we would be less oppressed thaii we are now. I am strongly in favor of the amendment of the gentleman from Choteau. 1 think there is no danger to be apprehended so long as the Legislative power of this state has full control of the rents of these waters. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I will say. Mr. Chairman, that if any of these gentlemen are afraid that there will he extortionafe water rentals that I will support any measure putting them under the control of the Legisla- ture or County Commissioners. 1 simply want to encourage bringing out water onto this and land. W'e have got sufficient land down in northerii Montana to sustain a population of lOfl.OOO people if we had water on the land. We are a little differently situated in Choteau County than my friend from Cascade, tie lives in the country where they say it is not desert land, that it dOfs iinl need irrigation. I believe they have got thai fixed by the land office. But we live 42 miles below, and we cannot raise anything unless w-e have irrigation. (Laughter) Mr. Burleigh, of (kister: I desire to offer a substitute to Section 3. The Chairman: The gentleman from Custer offers the following sub- stitute for Section 3: Strike out all of Section 3 and substitute the follow- ing: The Legislative Assembly shall have authority to pass all necessary laws relating to the subject of taxation. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move the adopticm of the substitute. 'the motion was seconded. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: 1 liopi' that substitute will not prevail. 1 am as much in favor of fostering this mining interest as I am of the canals. I believe they are both essential to the development of the country. Therefore, 1 shall oppose the substitution of that section. .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: \\ C have passed a clause m our Bill of Rights, giving the right of way over ililches and canals and over pi'op- erty of other persons, ami calling that a public use. That was intended to foster this c|uestion of irrigation. Then, in Proposition 26. w-liich has noi ye( been passed upon, but is before the convenlion. there is a provision "that the water of e^ery natural stream not heretofore appropriated with- in the state of Montana is hereby declared lo be the properly ot the pub- lic, and the same is dedicated lo the use of the state sub.ject to appropria- tion as hereinafter provided. The right to di\-ert the unapproprialeil waters of any natural stream to beneficial uses shall never be denied. Priority of appropriation shall give the better right as between those using the water." Then, at the conclusion of that subject upon irrigallon. it says, "the General Assembly shall provide by law that the Board of Coun!\ Commissioners, in their respective counties, shall have power, when ainili- catinn is made to them by either iiarly interesled to establish I'ensoiiiili'" maximum rates to be charged for the vise of the water, whether furnishe I by infliMduals or corporations.' .Now, that is not passed yel. bul I pr-e Slime that it will be; and Ihat this last proposition in conneclioii wilh others. I believe, as we say. thai it is n "good scheme" to pnixide lli,i( these ditches shall be taxed only upmi llie net income, leaving il In the Cdunly Commissioners to provide what rales they shall pay for the use of water, and certainly any one county will not he loo liberal lo the com- pany: in fact, it would seem to ine. under such a pro\ ision as Ihat thai tliere would be some doubt whether any o! the companie.s would make six per cent on their iinestment: and hence I (hink Ihal il is "a good projio- sllioii to exenifit wlKM'i' we proxide llial lhi> I'liles in;i\ lie re^ii !,-ili'i| hy law. CONSTITL IIO.NAL CU.WEM'IO.X 1889 473 1 believe it is a good proposition to say that tliese companies sliail be taxed only on the net income Iroin their business. Mr. Bicktord, of Missoula: It seems to me that the amendment olTered by the gentii'man from llhoteau shoulil prevail. We have, at the present tmie, witluu llie limits of tlie I'erntory of .Moiitaiui. laire areas of and laiKis, and particularly in the county of Missoula have we such a class of lands. 1 belie\e i am safe in saying that there are 75,000 acres of good aridable land wtihm the limit.s of Missoula County today lying as a barren waste within the limits of the county, returning no taxation, no revenue whatever to tlie county or to the state, which might, under the provisions, or under the exemptions offered by this amendment, become homes for hundreds of people. It seems to me, sir, that if we desire to have a system of irrigation extended to the diffei'enl parts ut. while this is the case, there are hundreds of them standing idle because silver is low. that a few years ago wi're \alued at lliousands and thousands of dollars. I believe that the only fair way to arrivi> at a just basis upon which to tax this species i>\ property is by taxing the net proceeds of these mines: anfl 1 say to you. gentlemen, that in the county of Silver Bow. where I have the honor to live, and in the county of Deer Lodge, where the (iranile is situated and where there are other great mines, thai the revenues derived from this mode of taxation have been entirely satisfactory to many people, who heretofore have been opposed to it. Tlii're are forms made out for these men engaged in this industry to sign and make affi davits to. and as 1 have said, these men are men of integrity and honesty, and the assessor's returns in thi> county of Silver Bow will show that they have made a fair and equitable return upon their properly. Hence. 1 am in favor of adopting tlie report, of the comniil Ic. Thai .«;eems to me to be ai just and fair proposition. l<"our years ago. when the representat.i\ es of the people of I his 'I'erri- (ory met in this city to frame a constitution, this same subject was dis- cu.ssed. There were men in that conxention. men of ability, shrewriness and acquaintance and familiarity with public affairs, who stood upon the flocn- of that convention and denounced this \ery measure as an unfair, yea. an infamous proposition. 1 have talked with these same gentlemen not later than a week ago. and one. a lawyer in this 'I'erritoi-y. who is honest and qualifKMJ to judge id' tliese thingis. after having experience with it as he has had since, has stated to me that while in the forme'r constitution he believed it was unjnsl and unfair. Ihal having seen the workings of th(> system in this Territory, he was led to the conclusion that it was the only fair and equitable method of arriving at Ihe fair and jiisl taxation ol the mining interests of this country. So. I say to you, gentlenieii. In wIhhh i| inii\' si'eni an unfair ainl unjust discrimination in fa\or of Ihis industry, that if you will study il as we hiuc done, that \iiu can arrive at no other conclusion than Ihal il k the only nietliod wliereliy Ihe slate call secure from lliis s[iecics 111' |iropcrl\- CONSTllUTIONAL GOiWENTION 1889 477 a rcasonalili' and jusi rovonup, ami at llie same time pioteL't those men, tliosp Ijravp pioiipprs wlio have pomp out liere and have madp thp wilder- ness blossom as the rose, and opened up these great, mountains and brought their hidden wealth to lig-ht: yea. I say, it is the duty of the members of this convention to throw such safeguards around this industry as are proper and just: this great industry that is the foundation of almost all the prosperity of this country; this industry that has made possible the building of railroads into this country; that has made this city of Helena, of which all Montanans are proud; that has built up the city of Butte and has made all the valleys and mountains of Montana productive. I say. gentlemen, let us be cautious how we remove anything from the report of this committee that is going to endanger or jeopardize in any way this great enduring industry upon which our greatest hopes are founded. The Chairman; The question is upon the amendment of the gentle- man from Custer. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. I'he trhairman; the quest kui now is upon the amendment offered liv the gpntleman from Choteau \Mv. Conrad). .Mr. Collms. of Cascade: Before that question is put 1 would like to say another word or two. This species of property and mining property do not stand upon the same basis. The arguments of the gentlemen from Silver Bow and Deer Lodge indicate that. The labors of this committee show It; and there is no one in this convention or in Montana who can prove with any reason that those two species of property are upon the same footing. If we place a certain exemption upon water ditches, if we only tax them by the net proceeds, then I claim that wp should go furthpr and exempt or partially exempt by taxing only the net proceeds of the corporations and persons engaged in agriculture, engagpd in manu- factures and engaged in stockraismg. There is not a solitary difference between the propositions. If the idea of this Constitutional Convention IS that only the net proceeds of property shall be taxed, then I say let, us place a broad and wide provision in this constitution taxing only the net proceeds of all property in .Montana. Certainly if you rlo not do that, I say it IS unfair, unjust and unreasonable, not only to ourselves, but to the people of the state, that we should insert this provision exempting this particular class to a certain extent and not exempting any other class or species of property. 'I'lie mining property in Montana is fairly and equitably and justly taxed under this report. NVe not only tax the im- provements upon the claims but we tax the surface ground: we tax not only the surface ground and the improvements, but we tax the net proceeds as provided by law. The Legislative Assembly of the state of .Montana may levy a one per cent or a ten per cent tax upon those net proceeds. Hut, in this proposition of the gentleman from Choteau to exempt water ditches to a certain extent by taxing only their net proceeds, he does not provide that the tangible property of ttiat water ditch shall be taxed: he does not even go as far as the mining company and tax everytliins;' in sight and everything on the surface. .\ow, I believe in an income (ax; 1 believe in as little ad valorum tax as possible; but if the convention tielieves in this, if the convention is going to hew its line to this policy, then 1 say let us put in a general section as to all property. The slate o\ California and the staie of Colorado are the two great states of the L nion next to .Montana that irrigatp thpir lanrls. Thp state of Colorado in Its constitution has mserteij no provision exempting the water com- panies from taxation, or even providing for their taxation in any partcular manner. They stand upon an equal footing with every species of property within that state. The constitution of California does not provide a single word in any way, form or manner as to how this species id property shall be taxed. It is taxed in that state as all other property is taxed. Now, arguments can be brought to bear exempting any species of property. If you exempt this we can bring up the same arguments exempting stock. We have millions of acres of as fine grasses in Montana as there are in the world. We have not got stock enough to eat that grass. There are thous- ands upon thousands of oollars going to waste every year in Montana by not haviiip- horses, and cattle and sheep enugh to feed on this grass. 478 PROCEEDINGS AiNU DEBATES ilii-n. li't us providp also hay to leed their stock with in hanl winters, so thai we can gel money nito the Territory. Let us only tax thi' net pro- ceeds, and 1 will assure you we will get yery little taxes. Mr. Knciwles. of Silyer Bow: 1 want to asli (he gentleman it all or any of the industries that he has named are regulated in their sale and production by law. Does the law regulate, or give the power to the Board of County Gominissioners to regulate the price tlie farmer shall get for this property? .Now, tliese ditches that are huilt to distrilnile water and sell it are subject under this proposition .No. 2() to be regulated by the County Commissioners as to the price they shall get for tlieir commodity. Now, it would be a fact that if you add a tax on these ditches and put it up to such a rate that the County Commissioners in judging what should be charged for water, would have to add so much more to the price of ttie water, the ranchman would have to pay just so much more for the water lor the privilege of farming. It is just coming right around in a circle again. Somebody has got to pay for it. If you put down the water at a low price, the fanners get their water that much cheaper, although the state does not derive the same amount of taxes from it. .And it does seem to me that if you want to encourage agriculture here, and the digging of these ditclies and if you are going to regulate their price, then they ought to be taxed on their net proceeds. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Every species of property in Montana is regu- lated by the Board of County Commissioners. The assessor places his value upon it. The Board of (bounty C.ommissioners meet and equalize it. 'I'hey may increase or decrease the assessed valuation of that property, so that a county in one part of Montana may pay an assessed valuation upon, say, my farm land at ten dollars an acre. A county in another portion of Montana may pay tax on that land at fi\e dollars an acre or one dollar an acre, i'he Board ot (>ounly Commissioners have to regulate all property, so far as taxation is concerned. Now, I will go a step furtlier and say m answer to the gentleman from Silver Bow that this con\ention, nor the people of Montana should favor the gobbling up of the water of" Montana by any company or corporation. I do not believe it is the right policy, and I believe the best place to assert that this is not the riglit policy IS right here m this constitution. The natural waters of this great Terri- tory in the near future will be n-servoired: they will be brought out on these great plains, and they will be either brought out by the state of Montana or the government: and I claim as a matter of policy that they should not be brought out by combined capital: that if they are, it is like giving over the control of this gr(>at country, with its millions of acres, to coi porations: that they will virtually own the iaml when they own the water, and that they will levy tribute upon these people m this country as tliey lia\e in every country where they own water. The Board of County Com- missioners will be powerless, and the regulations will be of no value so far as the great mass of the people are concerned. We are trying to build up a public sentiment by which the government shall expend millions of dollars in reservoiring water, as this telegram in the morning paper says When that is done you will find your speculators and capitalists following in the trail of those surveyors aiul owning the water and using it for their own purposes, and not for tlie benefit of the people. The parties who own tlie water own the Iaml. and there should be no policy adopted in this constitution that will fa\oi- that class of people. The policy, in my opinion, should be to compel the state or the f;o\ernment to tiring out these ditches and to own this water. Tlie Chair |)Ut (he i|uestion on the aniendment of the gentleman from Choteau. Mr. Conrad, and a division being called for, (he same was declared lost ))y a vote of 15 in tli(> affirnialix e to 'i;f m the negative. The Chair: Are there any oIIht amendments |o Seclion :V! Air. ,). R. Toole, of Deei- Lodge: 1 liaxc an amendment to otter to sec- tion 3. The Chair: The nentlemaii liom Deer Lodj^r offers the following: Amend section '.i by inserting in line 2 after the word "deposits" the words "sliall not be taxi'd before patent tni(.' 'i'he molion was seconded. Mr. .1. H. i'oole, of Deer Lodge: .My hIijimI in introducing this aiiKMid- rnent is that the printed bill is somewhat ambiguous, and it is a (|uestion that might be raisi'd, tliat before pali'iits are issued for mining proper(> they would be snii.ierl In (axalion, or at leas! tlie possessory rif;ht. In CONSTITUTIONAL CONVE.NTIU.N 18Sy 47'J ordt'i- (o inaUi- il iilain. iiiid to avoid any (lui'jilion o\' that kind coniiiig up tierealter, 1 ollered tlio aiiiondiiKMit. It niaki's il plain Itiat before pateni tfie surface ground shall nul he subject to taxalion: afterwards it may be. Mr. Mayger, ol Lewis iV Clarke: If the gentleman will read the section he will see that the land tiefore it is patented is not taxable, unless it might be (he machinery or niiprovements upon any land, patenled or inipatented. would be taxable under a proper conslruclion of tln^ law. The Cliairinan: The question is upon the adoption of thr ami'iidiiien!. offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge. The Chair put the queslion on the said amendment of Ihe gentleman from Ueer Lodge. Mr. Toole, and a diMsion being called for. the same was declared lost by a vote of 20 in the affirmative to 31 in the negative. Tliere being no further amendments to Section 3 the Clerk read Section i as follows: Sec. i. i'he Legislati\e Assembly shall not levy taxes upon the inliabitant.s or property in any county, city, town or municipal cor- piiratiiin tor county, town, or municipal purposes, but it may by law invest 111 the corporate authorities thereof powers to assess and collect taxes for such purposes. ibere being no amendment to Section i, the Clerk read Section 5. as lollows: Sec. 3. Taxes for city, town and school purposes may be levied on all sub.jects and objects of taxation, but the assessed valuation of any property shall not exceed the valuation of the same property for state and county purposes. There being no amendment to Section 5. the Clerk read Section 6. as follows: Sec. (j. .No county, city, town or other municipal corporation, the inhabitants thereof nor the property therein, shall be released or discharged from their or its jiroportionate share of state taxes. There being no amendment to Section (5, the Clerk read Section 7. as lollows: Sec. 7. The power to tax corporations or corporate properly shall never be relinquished or suspended, and all corporations in this state, or doing business therein, shall be subject lo taxation, for state, county, school, municipal and other purposes, on real and personal prop- erty owned or used by them and not by this constitution exempted from taxation. There being no amendment to Section 7. .the Clerk read Section 8. as follows: Sec. H. Private property shall not be taken or sold for the cnrpoi'ate debts of municipal corporations. There being no amendment to Section 8. the Clerk read Section 9, as follows: Sec. 9. The rate of taxation of real and personal property for slate purposes in any one year shall never exceed three ,3 mills on each dollar of valuation: and whene\er the taxable property in the state shall amount to one hundred million dollars liSHHi.ntKi.lHHi the rate shall not exceed two and one-half iHi. mills on each dollar of \alualion: and when- ever the taxable property in the state shall amount to three hundred mil- lion dollars !!CiiKt.(Min.(Ni(» the rate shall never thereafter exceed one ,1 mill on each dollar of valuation: unless a lu-oposition to increase such rate specifying the rate proposed and the time during which the same 'hall be IcMed, shall ha\e been submilled i<> the people al a general election, and shall have received a maj(n-ity o{ all the votes cast for and against it at such election. There being no amendment to Section 9, the Clerk read Section 10. as follows: Sec. 10. .\l| taxes levied for state purposes shall be drawn from the treasury but in pursuance of specific appropriation made by law. There being no amendment to Section 10. Itie Clerk read Section II. as follows: Sec. II. Taxes shall be levied and collected by general laws and for public purposes only. They shall be uniform u|ion the same class of subjects w-ithin the territorial limits of the authority levying the tax. There being no amendment to Section II. the Clerk read Section 12, as follows: Sec. 12. .\o appropriation shall be made, nor any expenditure of the state during any fiscal year shall exceed the total tax then provided for by law and applicable to such appropriation or expenditure, unless the l^egislative .\ssembly making such appropriation shall provide for levy- ing a sufficient tax, not exceeding the rates allowed in Section nine ^'9' of this article, to pay such appropriations or expemhture within sucii fiscal year. This provision shall not apply to appropriations or expendi- tures to suppress insurrection, defend the state, or assist in defending the United States in time of war. No appropriation of public money shall be made for a longer term than two years. 480 PRUCKKDINGS AND DEBATES There being iw aiiii'iiilmenl to Seclinii 1l'. tln' Clci-k read Section 13. as follows: See. )3. Tlie State Treasui'er sliall keeiJ a separate aeeount of eacti fund in his hands, and shall al, the end (d' eaeli quarter of the fiscal year report to the (iovernor in writing, under oath, the amount ni all moneys in Ins hands to the credit of every such fuml and the place or places where the same is kei)t or deposited, and the numher and amount (d' every warrant paid or redeemed by him during ttie (juarter. The Governor, or other person or persons authorized by law. shall \erify said report and cause the same to be immediately published in at least one newsiiaper printed at the seat of government, and othei'wise as the Legis- lative Assembly may require. The Legislative Assembly may provide by law further regulations for the safe-keeping and management of the public funds m the hands of the Treasurer; but, notwithstanding any such regu- lation, the Treasurer and his sureties shall, in all cases, be held respon- sible therefor. There being no amendmeid to Section 13. the Clerk read Section 14, as follows: Sec. 14. The making of profit out of public moneys, or using the same for any purpose not authorized by law, by any public offi- cer, shall be deemed a felmiy and shall be punished as provided by law: but part of such punishmentsliall be disqualification to hold public office for a period of not less than ten years. .Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 move to strike out all of Section I'l after the word "office" on the third line. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motnm. iMr. Goddard, of Vi'llowslone: 1 move to strike out the entire section for the reason that it is a mailer willuii the province of the Legislature,. and not of this convention. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on I lie niiitinn id' the gentleman from Vei- lowstone (Mr. Goddard) and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vole of 24 in the affirmative to 25 in the negative. The Chairman: The question is now upon the amendment offered by the gentleman Irom Lewis iV Clarke, iMr. Mayger, to strike out all after the word "office" on line 3. The Chair put the question on llie said inolion of the gentleman from Lewis i\: Clarke (..Mr. Mayger:, and a sole bi/mg taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 14. the Clerk read Section 15, as follows: Sec. 15. The Governor. Secretary of State, State Treasurer, State Auditor and Attorney General shall constitute a State Jioard of Equalization: and the BoartI of County Commissioners of each county shall constitute a County Board id' Kqualizalioii. The duly id tin' State Board of Equalization shall be to ad.jusl and equalize the valuation of the taxable property among the several counlies of the state. The duly (d' the County Boards of Equalization shall he to adjust and equalize the \aluation of the taxable properly within their respective counties. Kach board shall also perform such other duties as may be prescribed by law. There being no ameiulmeiit to section 15. the Clerk read section 10 as follows: Sec. IG. All property, except as in this section pnnided. shall be assessed m the county, city. lown. township or school district in which il IS situated, in the manner prescribed by law. The franchise, roadway, roadbed, rails and rolling slock nf all railroads operateif in more than one county in this State shall be assessed by the State lioard of equalizal ion. and the same shall bo apiiortioned to the counties, cites, towns, lownslups and school districts in which such railroads are loeated. in iirnportion to llie number of miles of railwa.v laid in sindi counties, cities. Inwns. town- ships and school districts. There being no amendiiienl hi seclmu in. ihe (;h'rk read seclinii 17 as follows: Sec. 17. The word iiroperly. as used in this artiide. is lieri'- by declared to include moneys, credils, bonds, slocks, traiKdiises and all matters and things real, personal and mixed, capable of private owner- ship; but this shall not be construed so as to authorize Ihe taxalion of the stocks of any comiiany or coiijoration when Ihe property id such company or corporalioii, I'epresenled by sucdi slocks is within the Slate and lias been taxed. CO.NSTITL'TIU.NAL CO.NVK.NTIO.N 1889 481 TliiTo being no amendment to section 17. I lie Clerk read section IS as follows: 8ec. 18. I'tie Legislative Assemtily shall pass all laws neces- sary to carr^- out llie provisions of tins article. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: 1 move that the Conimitlee do now rise, and report back this proposition, .No. l'7 with the anieiidinents as adopted. The motion was seconded. Mr. Loud of truster: Before I hat. (itn-stion is put. it seems to me, that section 7 conflicts with section 2. Section 7 provides that the power to lax corporations or corporate property shall never be reluiiiuished or sus- pended, and all corporalions in this State, or doing business therein, shall be subject lo taxation for State, county, school, municipal and otiiei' pui'pnses, ijii real and personal iiroperty owned or used by them and not by Ihis (^institution exenipli'd from taxation. .Now. section 2 pmvid-'s that the Legislative Assembly may, in its discretion, exempt from taxation other property m addition to that herein specified, but all exemptions shall only be by general law. It seems lo me that the last part of the provision III section 2 would be of no use if we adopt section 7. The Chairman; Does the gentleman wish to make any motion. .\lr. Loud of Custer: 1 move to strike out the words "this Constitution"' in line 'i. section 7. an# insert "and not by genei'al law exempteil from tax- ation." The molion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, :\lr. Loud, and a division being called for. the same was declared lost. .Mr. Hickman of -Madison: 1 would like lo ask a question of some of the legal rights m the convention. In section one of the last clause. "The J^egislative Assembly may also impose a license tax. both upon persons and upon corporations doing business in the State." I want to know whether this is to be construed here as saying that the Legislature can levy a special poll tax under the provis^iin. 1 would like some one better versed in the law than myself to explain it. .Mr. \\ arren of Silver Bow: I would say that as a member of that committee that that matter has been entirely overlooked by the com- mittee. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: I'his matter did not come up in the com- mittee, but 1 think that this certainly would cover that. The legislature would have complete authority under this constitution to levy a poll tax. This matter came up. 1 thmic m the Constitutional Convention of 188i, and the then chairman of the Judiciary ('ommittee. who is the present chairman slated that the legislature would have authority to levy a poll tax under this provision of the (_;onslitution. .Mr. Uoddard (d \ellowstone: It seems to me. that the object of this language is for the purpose of levying a tax upon the business and not upon persons and corporations. 1 presume that is the intention of the com- mittee, and 1 move to insert the words, "upon business of persons or cor- porations doing business in the state"; so that it will read "The Legislative Assembly may also impose a license tax upon thr business of persons and rorporations doing business m the State." Mr. Collins of Cascade: I would state. Mr. Chairman, that a poll tax is a license tax; it cannot be anything else; and that every person that pays poll tax under the law is paying a license tax. Mr. A. K. Burns of Lewis and Clarke: That section reads all right. It does not need any change. Reading' "both upon persons and corpora- tions doing business in this State."' The Chairman: The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from \ellowstone. .Mr. Goddard. The C.hair put the question on the amendment of the gcntlrman from Yellowstone. .Mr. (ioddard, and a vote being 'taken, the same was de- clared lost. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: I move that the committee do now rise and report the amendments. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. 482 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES I.N CONVENTION President Clark ia the Cliair. The Convention was called to oider. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, the Committee ol the Whole ha\e had under consideration Proposition No. 27, article on Re\ - enue and Taxation, and ha\c authorized me to report the same back, with the recommendation that thc^ same pass. Thei-e are no amendments, ex- cept a mere verbal one in the second line: the word "Legislature" should be "Legislative Assembly." That is a verbal error. The President: The Chairman ot the Committee of the Whole re- ports that they have had under consideration Proposition No. 27, and instructed him to report the same back with the amendments, which amount to only one or two minor changes. What is the pleasure ot the Convention? .\lr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: I move that we now take up the prop- osition for the consideration of the amendment reported by the Committee ot the W hole, and place it upon its final passage. The Motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, (Mr. W'hitehiU. and a vote being taken the same was de clared carried. The President: The Clerk will react the proposition by sections. The Clerk read section 1 as follows: Section 1. The necessary revenue for the support and maintenance of the State shall be provided by the Legislative Assembly, which sliall levy a uniform rate of assessment, and taxation, and shall prescribe sucli reg'ulatioiis as shall secure a just valuation for taxation of all property, except that specially pixivided for in this article. The Legislative Assembly may also impose a license tax. both upon persons and upon corporations doing business in this State. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow sent up -^n amendment. The President: The gentleman from Siher Bow moves to amend by adding after line 5, "Also to impose a poor anti road tax." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. tlogan of Silver Bow: I hope this amendment will not pi'evail. J do not think it is customary in the Constitution of any state tn have It si)ecified that a poor tax will be levied on each person. I do not think it right. 1 think as it stands now it is good enough. The road tax the Legislature can provide for, and I think this is not a Constitutional pro\- ince. Mr. Bullard of Jefferson: It, seems to me tliat if this is to be put at all, that it ought to be in after the word "impose" — "The Legislative As- sembly may impose" &c. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: 1 accept the amendment. Mr. Uoddard of Yellowstone: 1 do not see what right the Legisla- tive Assembly or any other ass(>mbly has to impose a poor tax oi- a road tax upon any corporation. Mr. Hirshfield of Lewis ^^ Clarke: That very suggestion was dis cussed by a number of the members of llie Committee, although I don'l know that the Chairman of the Coniniiltee was present, and we held that it was highly improper to insert a clause of that kind in the Conslilution: and that is one of the reasons why it was omitted. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Mr. President. I think it is just as much out of plac(> to insert the provision liere in this Constitution as it would be to put in a goat tax. or a la.\ on rattlesnakes. It seems to me that it is a matter for legislation only. 'I'lie Chair imt llie question on the niolion ol the ,L;eiitleman from Silver Bow, .Mr. Warren, and a vole being laken llie same was declared lost. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I wani lo ask. before we pass to the (•onsideration of Section 2, carelul alleiitioii lo tiie wording of the last part of Seclion 1 in line ."). "Both upon persons and upon coriioralions doing business in this slate.". Now I believe il has been decided by (he highest Court in .Montana that a woman is not a person. Should a woman see fit lo establish a bank in the city of Helena. Would she have to pay a tax under this section? 1 ask it in all seriousness. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 483 .Mr. \\ arn^ii ol 5?il\er Bow: 1 would iiiakc an aineiidini'nt to that, Mr. Presidonl. 1 nio\e to anu>iul tliat to read ■■.\iiy iji-rsou or tiling-.' i.Laug^hter . The Clerk read Section 2 as follows: Sec. t. The property of the United States, the Statp. cimnlies, cities, towns, school districts, municipal corporations and public libraries shall be exempt from taxation; and such other property as may be used ex- clusively for agricultural and horticultural societies, for educationa,i pui'poses, actual places for religious worship, places of burial not used or iield for private or corporate profit, and institutions of purely public chanty may be exempt from taxation. The Legislative Assembly may, in Its discretion, exempt from taxation other property in addition io that herein specified, but all exemptions shall only be by general law. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move to strike out thai jiortion of Section 2 after the word "taxation" m line o. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. -Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: The reason that 1 offer this amendment is that 1 believe that it contravenes the 1 4th amendment of the constitution of the United States. I think it is an invitation to give the Legislature power to do that which they would not be authorized to do. That amendment pro\ides that citizens shall be entitled to the equal protection of the law. It has been decided I thmk by as eminent an au- thority as there is in the United States, by Judge Fields of California, that any exemption which is in itself an exemption of property which does not belong to the Stale, to the county, city, town or iniinicipalily, is in violation of that provision of the Constitution of the United States. There was a ease decided by Judge fields when be was on the Western Circuit. The case was appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States, and the Court said with reference to it that it was a grave question, and it was not the duty of that Court to pass finally upon that proposition, and that the case then and there could be disposed of on other questions, and they proposeil to dispose of it on other questions than that. So that 1 think it may be fairly said that the authority which is here sought to be given to the Legislative Assembly is against that provision of the Con- stitution. That case goes further, that railroads, institutions and those things which are supposcil to be budded for the dissemination of advan- tages to the public ami the public good might come within the provision, but to authorize generally an exeifiption from property might violate that provision in the Conslitution. I might take occasion to say here that four years ago when I was a member of the Constitutional Convention of the I'erritory. 1 opposed the provision which exempted from taxation the mines of this Territory, and I urged then that as one of the reasons for my opposition. It was then put in as an exemption. Here it is put in in a diU'erent manner. I introduced a resolution myself which was embodied substantially in this proposition which authorized the laxatimi of mines and did not release them or work any exemption ot them, but it taxed the property at its given value by which it would add over two niillion dollars to the assessable property of this Territory and yet not he felt by any one in the Territory, 1 say I do this with justice to myself, having asserted this as one of the reasons at that time for my opposition to that measure. Hut I went further at that time and stated that I believed that no system was builded upon a better foundation than that which declared equal taxation. But my observation and experience in this matter has demonstrated to me the perfect wisdom and propriety of the pro- poseil article of this constitution with reference to the taxation of mines. I mention this simply in connection with the other matter as illustrating its bearing' upon this proposition. The Chair put the question and the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke '.Mr. Toole and a vote being taken the same was de- clared carried. .Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: Mr. President, I offer an amendment to strike out of the second section the words "Actual places for religious worship," The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. 48i PRUUKEDliNCiS AM) DEBATES • Mr. Ciilliiis ol' Cascade: I ask imaiiiinnus cnnsi'iil In liavc llic ayes and nays entered upon the Joui-nal upun Itie ami'iniiiuMil (itlcrcd ijy .Mr. Toole. The President: It cannot be done e.xceiit by unannnous consent. II there be no objection tlie ayes and nay.s will be entered. Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: Mr. President, since the vole was so de- cisive I object to tlio vote being taken. The President: T'lie Chair would state the amendment ottered by the gentleman from Missoula. The amendment is to strike out of line 4 the words "Actual places for religious worship." Mr. Marshall of Missoula: 1 want to premise what 1 have to say on that question by saying that 1 am a member of a (christian church and profess to be a christian, and am a clii'istian, and yet 1 believe it is wrong to exempt churches from ta.xation. 1 believe that il is in \iolation Of the principles of the bill of rights which we adopted the other day, and ill violation of the fundamental principles of our country, that is, the separation of church and state entirely. But the bill of rights which we adopted the other day says "iNo person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of public worship." 1 believe if we adopt this provision that we compel every person to support a place of public worship. By exempting the property of one person from taxation we necessarily increase the taxation upon everybody else's property. A certain amount has to be raised. If the property of one person is exempted of course the property of other persons is taxed that much higher to make up for the difference, and if you exempt church property you must necessarily tax the pi'operty of everybody else to support thai church. I believe that it is wrong in prini^iple. There may be some pi'ople m this Territory that do not believe in churches at all. 1 do not know thai there are. but there may be, and we do by adopting this proposition force those persons, who are citizens of the State perhaps, to support places ol public worship in the way 1 have stated. There may be Jews in Ibis country who have no synagogue in this town for instance. By exempting the property of other denominations from taxation, I say that you force those jews to support places of worship that they do not believe in and do not believe ought to be supported, and you \iolate the principle of the bill of rights, and in my judgment violate a fundamental principle of our institutions, the separation of church and Stale. 1 have made this motion because 1 believe that it is right fundamentally. I am in favor of churches, but I say let everybody support its own church, aud do not force people who are not in favor of churches to snjipnii my church or your church, that is my doctrine. Mr. Burh'igh of Custer: 1 will say m connection with what has fallen from the lips of my illustrious friend from Missoula County that 1 am not a member of a christian church (laughler . 1 would say. though 1 cannot say il with so much assurance as he has, that 1 am a chrislian. What ma> bapiien m the providi>nce of God hereafter, 1 do not know. .Men have fallen from grace and men have ascended, but 1 say this that the force of habit from infancy compels me to differ with him, as much as I re- gret it, upon I his question; and while I would limit the \aluation of the property exempted much less than it is in the bill, say !*i^5,000, I am in favor of the iiroposition. 1 do not Ihink il is lu'cessary to have a church made up of mahogany and decorated with alabaster and everything of llial kind, bul I beieve in making thcMU respectable places to go and wor- sliqi according to the consciences of the members and 1 for one am in ta\iir i>\' exein|)ling church iiroi)crty from, laxatmn and will so vote. .Mr. Hickai'ds of Silver Bow: .Vlr. President, I certainly shall \o|i^ ariMinst the adoption of this amendment. If Ihe argument of (he gentle- man from .Missoula Oniidv is a gooil one lo be sustained he should liaxe stricken out all of lines three and four, for he says wlial releases or t'.MMiipts one person's properly I hereby increases the liurden of every other person or persons. Therefore, if his argiimenl is a good one, then I say lo be coiisisteni he should include in his ameiidmeiil all of liiii's llii'ee and four winch read like this: ".As may he used exclusixcly for agricul- tural and Hnrliciiltural societies, tor eflucalloiinl purposes." Then again "Places (if bui'inl not used or held for private or corporate profit". .Now when the geiilli>maii is consisli'nt enough lo incorporate in his amendment these wonls that I lia\e just read, then I think his argument may lia\e some force, lull mil until tlien. COXSTll'L llONAL CO.NVK.NTION 1889 485 Mr. Ramsdell. of Missoula: it seems to me the provisions of this ameiulmeiU are wise, aiui tliat they are progressive ones. The only argu- ment that can be advanrecl in favor of non-taxation of the church is the fact thai il is strictly a mural institution and that it advances strictly moral ideas, lliat is a good argument and as far as il goes it is logical, but we have also in the limits of the United States and the other civilized countries other institutions that are of a moral character and that have for their sole object the dissemination of moral and intellectual ideas. If you cany this principle to its logical conclusion, in my mind you should exemiil from taxation all public and private libraries, all public halls that are used by speakers, and all newspapers that are of a moral character sufficient to warrant this exemption. iLaughter In my mind, tliere is no institution, there is no living factor today that exerts the moral influence upon the people of this country that the newspaper does. It holds up to the execration of the public mind those who by their failure in public conduct, have neglected their duties and thereby deserve discredit, while on the other hand it liolds up to the eulogy and the admiration of the rising generation all those who by strict attention to their duties and their public conduct deserve such eulogj-; and in my mind the power that they possess is fully as great as that of the church. \\ hen you come down to the cul- tivation of moral doctrines and beliefs it is not in the church alone that these are propagated. It is in the school. It is at the lionie: and in fact It IS in every avenue of life where men by either word or example can in- culcate these beliefs or doctrines, l-'urthermore by exempting churches when you exempt the rich and the powerful you only use the argument ttiat by exempting the wealtliy chinch property worth, say. a million of dollars, they escape large burdens, whereas its neighbor of a more unpre- tentious character perhaps may not be worth one tenth of that amount — you necessarily use the argument that the church worth millions is doing much more gciocl in the world than the church which is only worth a thous- and. And if there is any logic in tlie statement it is true in an inverse ratio. 1 believe that churches are not essential and not advantageous in a direct proportion to the wealth and the infuence that they exert. I believe that there is many an uniireieiitious church made out of huge logs and situated on ground that is not worth scarcely the effort to secure the fee title to It, that is of more worth in a moral sense, that it inculcates nobler principles and nobler examples than some pretentious church in .some City with it5 spires stretching spreading towards the Heavens and its colleges spreading over the earth. 1 do not wish to say anything that would be considered sacrilegious towards the church. I believe that the church, although 1 am not a professor of any religion, does good in its sphere. Hut 1 believe, considering the condition of our public affairs today, in which ta.xation is one of tlie most important economical principles in the administration of governmental affairs. 1 beleve that we should get right down to the root of it. and that all institutions that are not strictly of a public character should pay their iiro rata of taxes: and I believe when we reach this conclusion we will have taken such steps in the admin- istration of our economic affairs as will place us on the roiad to a settle- ment of those great issues that disturb us today. As I have said before, in questions touching upon this point, you cannot alter the conditions of our goveinmeni without altering tlie elementary principles thereof: but I believe that by making taxation universal, and exempting nothing unless it be of a public chai-acter. that we shall have taken the first and most important step in regulating our affairs, so that the burdens of taxation sliall bear equally upon all — the most important step that can be taken without changing the elementary principles of our government. .Mr. .Marshall of .Missoula: .Mr. President, if no other member wishes to say a word. I will only consume a moment or two. in reply to the gentle man of Si!\er How. He did not con^■ince me that 1 am at all ineonsislenl. It may be right to encourage airiculturwl societies and anything that will encourage agriculture, and there is no principle that I know of. either fundamentally declared in our Bill of Rights or anywhere else, that would prevent the State from paying taxes: but I say there is a fundamental prin- ciple that does prevent the State from encouraging religious institutions and requiring everybody to encourage them whether they want to or not; and this thing of exempting church property from taxation does force everybody to support the churches, because as I said before that exemption 181) PROCKEUIiNGS AND DEBATES la tn br iiKidi' uii ljy laxalinii upon cilizi'ii.s. It ri'(jujri;s cmtv i-ltizi'ii lo pay Ins niuiify to tile supijoi'l of llie cliurcli — ol any clnii-fli; and 1 say it. is wrong- in pnni'iple to reiiuire lln' Jews lo support clu-jstiaii cliui-clios. We require the inlidel to support elinstian (-hurehes; we require tiie protestants to support eatliolie chuix'lies. It m|ay he tliere is a eatliolie cliurch in a place that is worth ten times more tlian all the i)rotestanl ehurrhes there, and by exemptiig it fi'om taxation you make exery protest- ant pay to su|)porl that ehureh: and it is for that I'eason tliat I sa.\- we have no right to do it, beeause we do not want lo mix up eluircli and i^tati'. As we have said m our Bill of Hights, the riti/.eii shall not be forced In support any place of public worshi|), llie very same vvords are used that are used in this section, and 1 do not think there is lany inconsis- tency. 1 believe the cliurcli is a great imoral iiistitulion. that it does a great deal to iiuproxe the morals of the counlry. 1 agree to that: and it is right that we should exempt charitable institutions, and probably agri- cullui'al societies, and all that; but f do not see the inconsistency in mak- ing the members of each church supijort their own church. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: 1 corelially agree with my friend that as disseminators of religious views, we would not have the right to favor churches by exempting them from taxation: but he says in his argu- ment that these churches are great mJoral agencies, and aceonling to Ihat aspect I think we clearly have the right to exempt them from taxa- tion. i\ow what does that niaaii? What is the great cost of government, after all'.' Where does the large proiiortioii of our taxes go? For the punishment of crime, for the maintenance of people in the penitentiaries, for the burdens that are brought upon the Stale by the violation of morals. That IS the gri.iat dram upon the resources of the people. That is where our money goes. iNow, if the old adage that an ounce of prevention is worth a i)Ound of cure lias any efficacy or virtue, is it not a profitable and wise investment on the part of the State to encourage ,any institution which has a tendency to form the mind of the youth that crime may be prevented, looking at it as a practical illustration. We claim that these (•hurdles ore moral educators, as means for the jjrevention of crime and consequently as means of saving money to the State. I'lial is the ground that 1 cast my vote on. Mr. ivnowles of Silver Bow: 1 am opposed to this amendment. 1 be- lieve in exempting churches because they are moral institutions. All cliurches teach morals. They all teach that it is wrong to steal, and to bear false witness, and to murder. If they do nolliing else but that, I would say certainly the State should support them. But all churches teach something else besides that. They all have their peculiar religious notions and peculiar creeds that thi^y support, but it is not on that ground that they should be supported by the State. It is only as moral institutions that they should be exempt from taxation land as they contribute to that end. why 1 am willing to have them exempted. That has been the rule in the past and 1 have never heard of any great harm happening on ac- count of the exemption of churches but once, and that was an old friend of mine that used to be here in Montana — old man Stone, who said that one reason Ohio went democratic one year was that they had exempted all the churches and they did not exempt all the lecture halls and turner halls and looins where they had spiritualistic lectures, and the people that attended the exercises in such places as thosi^ got mad and \oted the democratic ticket and beat the republicans that year. That is the only harm I have ever known to come from exempting churches from taxa- tion. (Laughter). The Chair put the question tin the motion ol the gentleman from .Mis- soula (Mr. Marshalli. Mr. Hogan, of Silver Bow, called for the ayes and nays. There being sufficient, number in favor of the ayes and na\s. the Clerk called the roll and the vote stood as follows: .•Vyes: Bickford, Breen, Burns, A, K.; Burns, A. J.; Callaway. Caldwell. Cauby, Coopi-r. Craven, Hatch, Hobsoii, Kennedy, Kohrs, l.,uce, .Marshall, .McAdow, .Mitchell, Myers, Parberry, Ramsdell, Rotwitt, Schmidt. Watson, Witter,— 2'i. Nays: Aiken, Uuford, Billiard. Burleigh, Burns. E.: (jarpeiiter, Ches.s- man. Collins, tlonrad, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Dyer, Eaton. Fields, Gay- lord, Gibson. Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Hartman, Haskell, Uershfield, CONSTITl liO.NAL CONVENTION 18H9 487 llu-kinan. H(if;;ui. Jny. .loyi's. Kanouso, Knowles, Ldiul. .Maginms, .Mai'it)n, Mavfier. .Mutli, Hci'k. Rickarils. Sargent, Stapletoii. J'oole, .losrpli K.; i'oolc, J. H.; VVarieii. W hiteliill. Winston, Mr. I'rpsklent, — ii. Absent:. Bra/li'ion. Krown. (jillotti'. hnijjppnbfrg. .Mulillrtcin. Roljinson, Webster. — 7. Ttie Chair announretl the vote on the said motion and declared the amendment lost. Ml'. Burleiyh of Custer: 1 nidve (he cunvention do now adjourn. -Mr. .\la;:innis of l^ewis & ClarUe: .lust nne moment. Before the words "Flaee of burial not used or held for private or eorpurale profit" I would like to put in the word "Hospitals." Hospitals ha\e been built in this towii, and 1 sujipose in all nur mining tciwiis. and I think if there is any i-harit> that deserves the reeonimendation id' (his eoinention it is that. I move (he word "hospitals" be inserted in such a way thai it shall apply to hospitals that are not kept for private gam. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said iiKdmn of Ihe geiillemaii liom Lewis iV Clarke Mv. .Maginnis and a vote being taken ttie same was de- clared carried on division by a vote of thirty-six in the affirmative and fourteen in the negative. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I now renew my niiilinn (i> ailjnurn. The Presiclent: I here is an amendment nlfered liy Ihi' f^enlleman from 8il\er Bow. -\lr. Bullard of Jefferson: Before llinl iiKitnui is put I would like to he pxi-used during (oworrows session. The l^resideid: If there he no objectuni the gentleman will he excused. The chair has a ti'legram from .Mr. Brazlelon of Deer Lodge County, in which he asks to tie excused vintil tomorrow at 2. If there be no ob- jection, this gentleman will be excused. The question is now upon the motion of the peiilleman from Custer that the Convention do now ad- journ. The Chair put the said motion, and a division being called for. the same was declarecl carried by a vote of 32 in the affirmative to 27 in the negative. The Convention stood adjourned until W ednesday, July 31, 1889. r\\ KXTY-SECOND D.W Wednesday, July .^1, 1889. .Morning Session. The Convention was called to order at 10 .\. .\l. liy the President. Tlie Clerk called the roll. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: .Mr. Middleton is unavoidably detained until tomorrow, and I di'sire to ask Ihat he he excused. The President: The gentleman from Custer will be excused. The Chair has a message from .Mr. Knippenberg in which he says it is impos- sible for him to get here for two or three days. If there be no objection he will be excused. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. The i^resident: i'he Chair has received a communication from (Jeii- eral Kuger, commanding the Department of Dakota, which, if there be no objection, will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Headquarters of Ijepartinent id' Dakota. St. Paul, Minnesota, July 25, 1889. To the presiding officer of the Constitutional Convention of Montana, Helena, .Montana. Sir: I have the honoi'. in accordance wilh instructions received from the War Deiiartment. tn request that the consideration of the Conven- tion be invited to the proposition thai a clause he inserted in the consti- tution of the State i.d' .Montana by which jurisdiction shall he reserved to /,88 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Hie Liiih'd Sl;ili'.s, as lirdxidcil in Si'clnin H ArlR'lr- 1 n\ llic Cniistilutioli, ovor the iiiililarv rcscrvaliuiis dI' Port A.lsinniboiiic Custer. K(-i)>;ii. iMaginins, Missoula and Sliaw, licVetnlnrc declared by tlie l^iesident. \'erv resiled I ullv your obedient sei'vanl. THOMAS H. HUGKR. Brigadier General Commanding." Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis cVj Clarke: Mr. l^resident, 1 have received a copy of the resolution that I believe was iiri'pared by the Seci'etary of War oil this subject, and 1 will introduce it and have it i-elerred |o tlie Ju- tliciary Committee. The Clerk read as follows: ••Resolution .No. -JS, introduced by Maginnis: Sec Jurisdiction is ceded to the United States over the Military reservations of l-'oi-t .\ssin- nibome, Fort Custer, Fort Keogli. Kort Maginnis and Fort Shaw, here- lofore declared by the President of the United States, provided legal pro- cesses, civil and criminal, of this Slate, sliall extend over such reserva- tions in all cases of which exclusive jurisdiction is not vested in the United States, or of crimes not committed within the limits of such reservations." The l^resident: If there be no ol),jection ttiis resolution, with tlie com- munication from General Ruger. wdl be I'efei'i-ed to the Committee on Military Affairs. Mr. Maginnis of Eewis & Clarke: Mi. Chairman, in connection witli that 1 desire to say tliat there has been great difficuRy sometimes in "I'egulating the matter of JurisdictnMi over grounds purchased by tlie United States for public tuuldings. I think tlie whole thing ought to go to the Judiciary Committee. II is a question of constilutmnal law. 1 lliink it ought to go to the Law Committee of the Convention. The President: If there be no objections to the matter being referred to the Judiciary Committee, it will be so referred. Mr. tlei'shfield of Lewis iV Clarke sent up report of coniiniltee. The Clerk read as follows: "Report of Committee on Miscellaneous Suljjects on Resolution 27. July 30, 1889." Mr. President, your committee on .Miscellaneous Subjects to whom was referred Resolution iS'o. 27 by xMeyers of Vellowstone to prohibit persons who hold United Slates offices from holding office undiT the State at the same time, have agreed to report favorably on the Resolution and recninnientl its aiJuiition. (Signedi L. H. HERSHFIELD. Chairinan. " the President: \\ bal is the pleasure of the Convention concerning this report? Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I move it be placed on the general file to be considered in connection w-ith the .Vrlicle on "Miscellaneous Suhjecls". The motion was seconded. The President: If there be no objection the report will be placed upon the general file to be considered in connection with the report n\ the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. Mr. Parberry of .\'leagher sent up ri'pmi of the Comiiullei' mi Irriga- tion. Ilie Clerk read as tollows: "V)ur committee on irrigation to whom the petition from the So- ciety of (_:ivil Engineers was referred beg leave to report thai they have had the same under advisement, and lielieving that the matter to which the petition refers belongs to the Legislature rather Ihan to this (^onven- liiin. would repiirl lui tlie sami' adversely. (Signed PARBERHV, Chairinan." file PresidenI: 11 tliere lie mi nb.lei'lion the reiiorl of llie Cumimtleo 111! Irrigaliiin will lie rerei\eil and will be considered adopted. .Mr. .1. K. I'lidle III Lewis \ Clarke simiI up repml of llie Cuiiimittee on Rules. ■|'he President: I'he report of the CiUMimttee on Rules m reference to Mr. Hni'leigh's resolution will be read. The Clerk read as follows: GUNSTITL l'K).\AL CO.NVKMIO.N 1.S.S9 i8ecli shall be limited to that, but I discovered i made a mistake in of- fering the resolution. 1 should have provided that at least three quar- ters of an hour should be added to the introductory remarks of some members. Laughter .Mr. Collins of Cascade: If we pass this resolution, in Committee of the Whole, each member can only speak five minutes and only once. I believe tliat is gagging us a little too much. -Mr. J. Iv. Toole, of Lewis tV; Clarke: 1 want to say in connection with this that the Committee on Rules does not seem to be a standing commit- tee, and 1 was unable to see the entire committee. 1 saw the members of the committee that were here yesterday in the cimvention, and I found such a difference of opinion among the members that we were compelled to report, this back without recommendation. T do not think it will bc> wise for the convention to adopt it. It might do to adopt such a resolution and make it applicable to the proceedings of the convention, but in the Committee of the Whole where these matters come up, I doubt the wisdom of the measure. The Committee of the Whole was inaugurated for the e.xpress purpose of giving the widest latitude possible lor debate, and if we are to ha\e any debate at all, the proper place for it, it seems to me IS in the Committee of the Whole. Any reasonable restrictions that are sought to be put upon the members in convention wnuld meet with my approval, but I do not think this resolution ought to relate to the pro- ceedings of the Committee of the Whole. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I fail to see any advantage which this convention has derived from debating these matters in the Committee of the Whole. It is the same body, with the exception of a different presiding officer. These matters are brought up. The propositions are read seclion by section, deliated in committee and adopted in committee: but it is not a finality. When the committee rises the same thing is gone over ijrecisely. and it seems to me a waste (if time to go into Committee of the Whole upon any of these propositions at this state of the conven- tion. Of course, these are my individual views. Other gentlemen have a light to differ from me as tliey do, hut it seems to me a work of super- erogation after having discussed these matters in Committee of the Whole to discuss them in convention. .\nd while they are gone over si'rialim. as they are in the Committee of the Whole, to go through the same thing again in the convention, it seems to me, is a clear waste of time. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 endorse thoroughly the views of the gentliMiian from Custer County. We have a curious set of rules here, and unnecessary time is taken up in discussing these various propositions ',i:iiATKS raiiKiiiK hor.srs. rattlr. sln'i'p anil ullii'i- li\i'tarbuck said, "It is time to heave tlie ship to and find out the storm centers and wliich way the wiml blows." We will get ourselves into a iiositnjn here that is as unenviable as any position that men ever placed themselves- iii, and we will be stamped as anything but constitutional lawyers and wise consdtution makers if we go on as we are doing. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentiemiui frijiii CustM' iiMr. Loud! and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. .Mr. Burleigh, of Cusler, sen( u|> an amendment which the Clerk read as follows: '■.-\mend Section 3 by adding therelo tin' rollowing: And the Legis- lative Assemlily shall provide some stringent means to ascertain the actual income. iNo salaries paid officers of the mining coi'porations shall be accounted as an expense or deducted from the gross earnings. The levy shall not be less than two per cent of the net earnings." .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move the ado|ilion of the amendmeiil. The motion was seconded. The Ctiair put the question on ihe said motion of (he gentleman from Custer 'Mr. Burleigh! and a vole being taken it was declared lost. Mr. .Myers, of Vellowslone: I move we strike ou( in Secdon .'i. line :.', after the wont "deposds" the following words "'aller pali'iil shall lia\e been issued therefor by the I'nited States," The motion was seconded. Tlie Chair stated the motion. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: 1 would like lo say, Mr. Chairman, dial that would exempt mines or mining properly from the time of making linal proof until patent was issued. I am iiichneil to tliink that that is not the inteiidon of this commidee. .vrtc^r a man has made his final proof on his [ii-operly he has a right to own it and operate it, sell it, or otherwise, before patent is,su(>s, die same as after iiateiil issues. .-Vny little matter might detain the pajiers or delay the issue of the patent for a number of yeai's. hi my experience in obtaining title to government lands and mineral claims, the time of issuing patents varies from a few moiilhs lo six years. I have known it to run as far as six years, vet in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 188'J 49;i that time 1 had actual possession of the property, have sold properly and received all the benefit from it. Now, if this section is ailopted with those words in it, the eleven vVords follownij; the word "deposits" on the >^econd Une of Section 3, it will liave the tendency to exempt from taxa- tion all mining claims, wilh tlie permanent imi)rovement thereon, such as buildings thai are taxed with the realty until such time as patent may issue. It would be an exempt urn of property from taxtion other than was contemplated 1 thmk by the committee that framed and made this report; therefore 1 hope my motion will be sustained. Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: I hope the amendment will not prevail. 1 would correct tliT" gentleman in regard to the machinery and I he improvements upon unpatented ground. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: 1 would say thai I did not mention ma- chinery. I said the buildings attached to (he really. .Ml'. Mayger, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 would say under this clause that all machinery and buildings of any kind whatever on patented as well as unpatented ground is taxable the same as any other property in the Terrilory. T'here seems to be a disposition in this convention and by some members Who are honest enough about it but who do not under- stand the position of mines to overtax the mines and mining claims. A mining claim is paying as much tax, if not more, at the present time, than any other property in this Territory. As a miner myself 1 have asked no exemption from taxa- tion, we are willing to pay our pruporlion. but any other bill or provision except this before the convention now would be a burden upon the miners. As for the taxing of mines before they are patented I do not believe the constitution of the United States would allow such a thing to he done because they belong to the government. A man may have a prospect, without anything at all, and yet he will be taxed upon that prospect, and 1 do not think it is the intention of this convention to tax a piece of property of that kind. If he improves that property and puts anything on It. that improvement is taxable, which tax the miner is willing to pay. Therefore, .Mr. President, 1 hope this amendment will not prevail. .Mr. Ivnowles, of Silver J3ow: 1 think I can explain somewhat the law upon this subject. In an early decision that was made in the Territory, and the attempt to forfeit mining claims that Were sold to the Territory, it was decided that the goi-ernment could do nothing to interfere with this possessory right of mining claims: that it was interfering with the right of the govemmi'nl of the United States in the primary disposal of lis soil. It was put in that decision on the ground that the Territory had no sovereignty in this matter. Since that lime there has been a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in regard to taxing l.-mds on the lines of these Pacific railroad companies and where they have contracted to sell or give patents to dispose id' to these railroad com- panies, in consideration of their building the railroad, and patents have not issued, they have decided that they cannot be taxed: that the govern- ment of the United States still has an interest in those lands. Mr. .Marshall, of Missoula: Have they not decided. Judge, that the title passed to the railroad by the grant without a patent? .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: 1 know the decisions of the courts are very peculiar on that point. I'hey decide that it passes to the railroads without the grant, but that when it comes down to taxing them it does not pass them enough so that they can lax them. The decisions are a little peculiar on thai. We have a special bill by Congress upon the railroads where they are surveyed. Now. that is a hill Ihat has been passed in the last five years. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: If the gentleman from Silver Bow will allow me to interrupt him a moment, I would ask him if he can explain that peculiarity? Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: No sir, I am not exactly lawyer enough to know why the railroads as an actual fact liave a grant in presenti and yet have not a good grant enough to be taxed. I cannot explain it. but that IS the decision of the court and we have to abide by it. Then, there is a disposition to hold that the propriety of mining claims and holding them and working them is really a sort of a process of purchasing them from the United States, and until they get title, that they cannot be taxed. Well, with that view the Legislature passed these law^ in relation to taxing mines: hut in the decision that was rendered by the Supreme Court 494 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES of the UnitL'd Stat<'.s in relation to taxing tlie C'omstock mine, wtiich 1 tiiink was taxed un tlie net ijioceeds the same as we tax ttiem here, wtiy. tliey held that that was suhjeel to taxation and that it was proper. Now, ttie Oomstock mine was not patented. U never has been patented. And yet the Supreme Court of the United States has held that that is proper. So I apprehend that the Legislature of Montana Territory, taking this other view of the matter, tliought that they could not tax: while 1 believe that they can tax this possessory right under this decision relating to the Comstock lode and that mines that are not patented ran be taxed the same as patented mines, only -it must be so worded that it will only tax this possessory right, tliat it must not tax a mine as a mine or real jiroperty. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis <.V' Clarke: Is there any objection to striking out those words? Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: No, I do not know that there is, except that we make it in such a way that we tax the- whole mine and not tax simply the easement or mining right. I see no reason why we cannot tax in the state these possessory rights just the same as we do after they get a patent. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: There ought to be no inequality about it. Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: No sir, I know that that was the reason that the Legislature failed to pass this law, because they did not believe they had the right. If they had thought they had the right they would have taxed the properties, but I liolieve they can tax unpatented lands if the law is properly worded. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I understantl the objection of the gentleman to be that he has no objection to the taxation of mines after the issuing of the final receipt. This, I believe, has been the custom in agricultural districts that, where farmers and people have paid for their lands and got their final receipt, the land is Ihcn subject to taxation. Now. I have had a little experience in this matter of inining improvements, and I have some mining property which has been taxed from the time I paid for the property or got my final receipt from the Register and Receiver. This, I believe, is the point the gentleman makes, that the property ought to be taxed from the day it is paid for in the United States land office, and I am of the opinion that he is correct in this matter. My property has been taxed since I received my final receipt. I raised an objection but it was held that it was taxable. The gentleman wants to do away with this long and protracted delay of the Government in the withholding the issuing of patent. The land is practically owned by the person who pays lor it. While he has no patent he has the final receipt, and a sale is recognized just the same as though be had a patent. I think the amend- ment should be so amended, if it could be suggested by some of the mining gentlemen here, that the words "final receipt'' be substituted for "patent." I do not think there would be any hardship in the matter one way or the other. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: I would say in answer to the genlleinan that this bill evidently provides for that. Strike out the words ".\fter patent has been issued by the United States." Then the bill goes on to say "Shall be taxed at the price paid to the United States." The price paid for these mining claims, agTicuUural or any other claims, is paid at the time of making final proof: that is, the final payment is made then, and the party who makes the final proof and pays the (Government price for this land or mining claim, as the case may be, is then to all intents and purposes as much the owner of that property as though a patent had issued for all practical purposes. He can work it: he can sell the mine, improve it, etc. Hence, I claim it may be taxed the same as any other I)roperty. That is the rule lliat ohtains in the agricultural districts in Hie counties in which I ha\(' been paying taxes, and I see no reason why it should not apply to mines immediiitely upon the payment and making tinal proof and paying the (iovernmenl price, that the mining claim then should be subjeet to taxation the same as agricultviral lands. Mr. .1. K. Toole, of Lewis iV: Clarke: I do not see how there can be any objection really in striking out those words. Under the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States and many of the states it has been lield that when a final receipt has been issued, whether it be to agricul- tural lands or niiin'ral lands, or any other public lands id' the United CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 495 S^tates, the party tliat lias tliat receipt has a perfect equitable title to the land and that the Government retains only a legal title, and that when the receipt is issued that it is then a proper subject of taxation, except in the case which was mentioned by the gentleman from Silver Bow. which IS under special acts of Congress granting lands, to railroad companies: and the reason for that discrimination grew out of the fact that there was inserted in the bill of provision, which, at the time of its introduc- tion, looked really as if it was done in the interest of the people, but it, as a matter of tact, was done in the interest of the railroad company: and that was that "no patent should issue to any of the lands hereby granted until the sum of ten cents an acre" which was intended to include the cost of surveying, selecting and conveying the land "should be paid to the railroad company." And it was held that until that amount of money had licen paid that there was no right to. and that consequently there was no authority for the taxing of these lands. But if these words are stricken out it will leave it so that, by the decisions of the Court as they have been pronounced and exist today, no mining lands or other public lands could be taxed until the final receipt had been issued, and the land paid for. and when that was done they would be subject to taxal lion just the same as patented land. And I agree with the propriety of the suggestion made by the gentleman from Yellowstone that if we leave the word "patent" in. it will delay the matter at the General Land Office in Washington for four or five years and the mine itself escape taxation for that period of time, that there is no reason why the owner should not be taxed. .Mr. Luce, of (Tallatin: Is an amendment now in order? The President: Yes sir. The gentleman from Gallatin (Mr. Luce) sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Gallatin offers to amend the amendment offered by the gentleman from Yellowstone by inserting the word "certificate" after the word "patent" in line 2. The motion was seconded. The President: is this offered as an amendment to tlie section, or as an amendment to the amendment? Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: An amendment to the section. The President: It cannot be considered then in the light of an amend- ment, and hence the question is upon the motion of the gentleman from \ellowstone. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: I desire before the vote is taken on my amendment to say that Mr. Dixon has an amendment prepared which I would like to include in my motion. The President: An amendment to the amendment? Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: Yes sir. 1 would like lo include it as a part of my amendment. -Mr. Oixon. of Silver Bow: I will offer that, Mr. President, as a sub- stitute for the suggestion offered by the gentleman from Gallatin. the motion was seconded. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers the follow ing: Amend the amendment by inserting instead the following: "After purchase thereof from the Lnited States." The gentleman from Yellow- stone accept* this amendment. .Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: With the consent of my second. I will move to strike out the eleven words in the second line, and insert in lieu thereof that which .Mr. Dixon has set out. The motion was seconded. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: The amendment contemplates the striking out "After patent has been issued therefor by the United States" and in- serting instead thereof "After purchase from the United States." The Chair put the question on the said motion and the vote being taken was declared carried. The President: The amendment as amended would Include the strik- ing out of the words "after patents shall have been issued therefor by the Lnited States' and insert in lieu thereof "after purchase thereof from the United States." .Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: All I have to say on that matter is that it amounts to about the same thing. .\ piece of land is purchased from the Lnited States and patent issued therefor. Then the language could re- main as in Section 3 by adding the word "certificate" after the word 496 PH<)(;KKl»I.\(iS AM) DEBATES "patent." in Soclion '^. Then it \vniyself fairly and squarely upon record here, in favor of the exclusive right of the people to legislate in regard to all these matters. I know these mines should be fostered. I believe they should be fostered; and I believe the people will foster them so far as they are entitled to be fostered. But I do not believe that it is the prerogative of the delegates in this convention to descend to legislatnm, and to take these questions up, and to spend their time upon them. I have been out over the mining district here, and I have seen enough of the vast storehouses of wealth in our majestic mountains here to justify me in the belief that, like every other great industrial enterprise, that the interest should be fostered, for 1 believe it to be one of the cardinal if not the cardinal interest in this Territory; and everything that has a tendency to promote the public w-ealth and prosperity should be fostered. Now, I am not one of those who believe that it is necessary to build a man of straw for the' sake of knocking him down. 1 believe the proper place to exercise generosity. 1 believe the proper place to expend labor, is where nature has done most to invite enterprise, and labor, and money; and I believe in no other country in the world has more been done by nature to encourage the industry, the energy of man. and the expenditure of iponey to develop its resources than in the mines of the gulches and the summits of these mountains; and 1 will never be found wanting in aiding lo the extent of my power in a just, fair and equitable way, whether il be in the way of legislation or otherwise, in the development (d' these resources. But I cannot consent, and I will not consent to lend my support to the measures which are advocated to transform this conveiitum. wliich is met here to frame a coWistitution. an organic law, the framework of all law. for the people of the great state of Montana, into a legislative body. Mr. Luce, of (iallatin, sent up an amendment. 'J'he Pr(>sident: 'J'he gentleman from Gallatin (Mr. Luce' offers to amend Section 3, proposition 27. by adding thereto the following: "Pro- vided that jiersons, companies or corporations, who have constructed or may herealler construct ditches or canals for the distribution and sale of water siiall be taxed ( respecting their busin(>ss of such sale or distribu- tion, and their property connected Iheicwilh, only upon the net income from the sale of said water; provided fui'lher that the salaries of any officer or trustee shall not be deducted from the gross income in order to arrive at the net income." 'i'he motion was seconded. The Chair -^laleil tin' iiiotion. ROBERT K. HAMMONIi LI.EWKLI.VX A. I.rCE GEORGK J. REEK B. PLATT CARPENTER JAMES E. KANOrSE THO.MASF. COURTNEY ARTHfR J. CRAVEN CONBTITUriONAL CONVKNTIUN 1889 'i97 Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I would like to call for the ayes and nays upon that question. The l^resident: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. .Mr. Ciibson. of Cascade: Is an amendment to that amendment in order? The President : -Not at the present time. iMr. Cooper, of Ciallatin: I simply want to say in reference to this amendment that m my opinion the importance of this matter is not truly and really considered by this convention. .Mr, President. 1 consider this one of the most important matters that has been discussed upon this floor. It Is a matter that relates to the future development of this new state. This season has demonstrated that the agricultural inerests of this Terri- tory cannot further expand without some improvement, and very material improvement m the way of w^ater ditches and water resources. Kvery available inch of water in this Territory throughout the agricultural dis- tricts has been appropriated and has been used and is now vested prop- erty. We all know that home capital is very slow to embark in such enterprises as this and so far as my observation has gone it is to the effect that some inducement must be offered to outside investors to get them to put their money in enterprises of this kind. I have in my mind one enterprise of this kind which perhaps is an enterprise of the greatest mag- nitude of any that has been put into practical operation in this Territory, or perhaps in all our sister territories. This enterprise has been put through m the county where I live — in Ciallatin county. It remained for years partially completed and capital declined to take hold of It because there was a lack of inducements. .Now sirs, I believe if there are any inducements to be offered they should be of a general nature. 'J'hat is to say, they should be relieved of the burdens of ta.xation. The farmers themselves undertook to offer an inducement for the construction of this great canal, and what has been the result? The law that is upon our statute books that provides that the County Commissioners shall regulate the price of water has been practically abrogated by the promoters of this enterprise going- to the farmers themselves and e.xacting from them con- tracts covering a period, 1 will not say a number of years — perhaps Judge Luce can inform me on that point — but If my recollection serves me right, It is some twenty or thirty years. iMr. Luce, of Gallatin: No, eighteen years. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: Eighteen years. Very well. The price agreed upon by the farmers and the contractors in this canal was the exorbitant sum of two dollars per inch, and I undertake to say that in future time, as years go by, that these very people who have agreed to pay this exorbitant price for that water will find that they have got a mortgage upon their property worse than any other that could be invented. J-or instance, it is conceded by those well versed in irrigation matters that it requires one inch per acre, or 160 inches of water for 1(30 acres of land to irrigate it properly during the season. Take that view of the situation and those people have to pay $320 per year, which I undertake to say they will find a burden that they can scarcely carry: and it seems to me that to relieve the situation, and to relieve the people who desire these water privileges and are not able to build canals themselves, that some induce- ment ought to be offered. 1 believe that this resolution as offered by my colleague from Gallatin will accomplish tlie object. It will accom- plish the object in my opinion and relieve these people. It requires very large capital to construct these canals now. As I have said before, all of the smaller waterways have been appropriated and water now has to be taken from the large rivers, and it seems to me that these large tracts or desert sections of our Territory cannot be reached without some such provision as this — without those canals being constructed. In our county at least one-half of the entire area of the county is a hilly waste, while it is the very finest land, land that is composed of washy and vegetable mold wash from the mountains, which can be converted into a flower garden if proper water facilities could be had. Still, it is so located upon an elevated plai^ that it would take nearly one-half a million of dollars to get water from either the .Madison or the Gallatin Rivers. Now, sir, I am in favor of the adoption of this clause as a part of Section three in some form and 1 hope it will be in proper form. I would be willing to insert there a r(istrlction that the canals or ditches should be large enough to 498 PHOCEEDI.NGS AND DEBATES lldw trii llidusaml iiiL'lics oT wati'r, and I would be willing to say lliat tins iiHlUL'onient should uud alter tlie ditch or canal had been in practical (>l)eralioii lor a period of ten years. Mr. President. I hope the motion will prevail. Mr. Maginnis. ol Lewis & Clarke: It seems to me nearly all the genlli'inei) who have spoken on this question admit the danger of having our w-atei- all taken up by rich, mdividuals or rich corporations. They all admit thai, unrestricted, the men who owni the water and sell it uiidi-r these conditions — (interrupted). .Mr. Cooper, of OallMlin: Will the gentleman allow ine tcj iiUrrriipt him a moment V I liad inli'inled to say in answer to the gentleman from Cascade who stated yestcrilay that speculators were seeking to appro- priate I Ins water, tfiat 1 fi'ar no danger from that direction: that our laws are such that wlioever aiiiiropriates that water must go ahead and improve their water rights, and if it covers land and for sale at reasonable price, then I have no ob,jection. But they cannot appropriate the water. They can hold it for twenty days only. .Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 w^as going to speak of thost? who took up the water in good faitli. The men who hold the water under these conditions practically own the country, and it seems to me that it would establish a system of landlordism in contrast with which the evils of all other systems of landlordism will be as nothing. Now, gentlemen have said that this clause which provides for the County Commissioners can fix the price of water, will be a practical check upon that and prevent them from absorbing the country and its soil by the privileges that accrue to them from their works. But the gentleman from Gallatin himself tias shown how easy it is to avoid a restriction of that kind by their going in advance and making these contracts with the farmers so as to cover a long term of years; that they can practically get around a qualification of that kind and be as oppressive in tliis country as they have been in Colorado or elsewhere. .Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I was going to further suggest that it was necessary not only for constitutional but legislative protection to protect the farmers against these speculators and against themselves. .Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: That is exactly the line of argu- ment, my friend, that 1 was going to make, because ail such questions as these present tliemselves to a people in two aspects. i<"irst, the natural desire of immediate and speedy improvement, and secondly, the ultimate and fatal consequences; and, my friend, a policy which ends sometimes in fatal consequences and becomes a great burden and tyranny upon the people is more often lost sight of in the desire that we all have for quicu and speedy improvement of the resources of our country. As the gentle- man has well said, it is an extremely grave question, and we ought to approach it in the gravest manner, because I can see that a mistake tlKit we make here may lead to most dire and disastrous consequences to the future of this country, and may raise questions that may be difficult to settle by those Who may come after us. I sincerely hope that the gov- ernment of the United States, or the state even, if it diWays our improve- ment a year or so, will ultimately adopt such a policy ttiat all the supply of water will be under the control of the state, which can do justice to all its citizens, and not under the control of the individuals and corporations which may oppress and impoverish the future agriculturists of this country. .Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow': I woiilil like to say a few words. The proposition tliat the government of the United States will wilhiii the next iifty years do anything to provide for a system of irrigation in this west- ern country, and make a public aiipropriation therefor, I think hardly probable. If we are to look to the stale to make apiiroiiriations for dig- ging these ditches, then the state must incur a debt, and this debt must be paid by taxation, or else there must, be some provision by which there is to be a revenue derived from these ditches to the state. Now. in a proposition that was shown me last night it was providiMl without a voti' of the people that the state could not run in debt more than .^100,000 except for defense in time of war or somettiing of that kind. Now, .'SIOO,- (KH) will not dig very many ditches of any great size, aixl hence this state, m my judgment, will not be able to dig ditchi's so long as that provision 111 the constitution remains. It provides further that the slate may go iiilo debt more than .lilbO.fWMl iiy a vote of the people, but in,\- judgment is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 499 that when you come down to a vote of the people upon that ijuesliou there will he so many people that are interested in otlier pursuits than agricul- ture that It will be almost impossible by a vote of the people to create a debt tor digging irrigating ditches. That will require something more than a selfish consideration: it will require a statesmanship that the ordinary run of people will hai'dly come up to. And now. m relation t« these contracts for. water; the law enters into every contract, and my impression is now that every contract that will be entered into for water will be subject to the right of these County Commissioners to provide what the rate should be. If that contract was in excess of the maximum rate that was provided by the County Commissioners. I believe that the party could refuse to pay anything more than the maximum rate. I am not positive in regard to this as a matter of law; but that would be my impression. .Now. without any examination upon that subject, a contract in relation to water would have to be made subject to the provisions of the law. In relation to previous contracts, contracts that have already been made in relation to water, it would not affect them. We cannot by virtue of our constitution here, or by virtue of any law. impair the obligation of a contract; but future contracts that are made in relation fo water, I believe we can provide for in our constitution. I feel that this is an important matter. .Mining interests are variable, but if we can settle up our valleys with a thriving farm population we know that here will be permanent wealth; here will be homes, and around homes will accumulate property that will remain the property of the country. The wealth that is created by mines passes away in the next fifty or one hundred years perhaps, but the wp^lfh of the homes will remain, they will become the permanent wealtli nf the country, and whatever we can do to foster the agricultural intersts of this country should be done. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin (Mr. Luce. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move to strike out those words in the amendment offered with reference to the salary of the officers, so that it will stand upon the same footing exactly as the exemption of mining property. I refer to the amendment of the gentleman from Gal- latin. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: 1 accept that amendment. Mr. .Marshall, of Missoula: I call for a division of the question. The President: The Clerk will read the amendment as accepted by the gentleman from Gallatin. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 3, Proposition IVenty-seven, by adding thereto the following: "Provided that persons, companies or corporations, who have constructed or may hereafter construct ditches or canals for the distribu- tion and sale of water shall be taxed, respecting their business of such sale or distribution, and their property connected therewith, only upon the net income from the sale of said water. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 am decidedly in favor of a system of irri- gation that \m1I tend to develop the agricultural resources of this coun try, and if it is put in its proper place I shall certainly support it. 1 desire to state to this convention that 1 have devoted more attention in the last ton years to the subject of irrigation than to any other subject; and I believe fliat without it our country so far as its agricultural resources are concerned is worthless. \\ ith it it will become one of the most fruit- ful countries on the face of the earth, especially the eastern part of it. I met, the other day, as 1 was going from .Miles City to St. Paul. Mr. .\llison. the Senator from Iowa, Senator Hoar of Massachusetts and Senator Hale of Maine, some of whom had been upon this Committee of Irrigation ap- pointed by Congress, and I had several hours in which to talk to them, and I improved the time. I ascertained from them, although 1 had heard it before through the papers, that Congress had waked up to the interest of the w-estern country, and especially the subject of irrigation, and ha't appointed a committee fo look into it and see what could be done. Well, now, I talked to them something in this wise. They spoke of the barren character of our country. 1 told them if was so. It w-as like a garden, fruitful in all that nature could bestow, but was unproductive because it was not cultivated. They wanted to know what system I would recom- mend; said I, irrigation. Take the waters of the Yellowstone, take the waters of the Missouri, take the waiters of all our rivers, and by a system 500 ' I'ltoCKKDI.NGS AM) I )K1!ATKS (il ii'rit:alii)ii tiU'ii llii'iii (lilt iiiiiin tin' lalilc lamls lirrr aiiil npdn llii' Ijul- toiiis, and mix ttio water wliieh (unJ iiiailc hore lor a ijurpn.sr. with the soil, and we can produce bushels and Ijusliels of oats to the acre. They said that was ail nonsense. I said, 1 liave seen it produce liere wntlionl U'rigalion ni tlie w-et season. Aow. said I, what are you doing, f^entleineu — because 1 am in the habit of talking very iilainly. and have a peculiar way of expressing' iny ideas — said I, you wise genllenieii in Washington are appropriating hundreds of thousands of dollars of money every year under the pretext of impi'oving the \ellowstoiie and Missouri Rivers, to dram those waters out, without giving us the benefit of it. If it was left here a few days longer we would get more evaporation; and, said I, what is the necessity of iin|iro\ing the rivers for navigation? That necessity has ceased. V\ ho wants to improve navigation? The railroads have come and there is no occasion for improving the navigation of these rivers for any puriiose whatever. Then, said 1, you are drainnig this water out, and you are sending it out to inundate the valleys (if the .Mississippi, overflow the jilantations there and spread disaster and ruin upon that country. Then what? Then you turn in and after having brought this evil upon it, \ou appropriate hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars to build up le\ees, to prevent the very act which you have assisted in bringing about. Kow, that is the practical effect of it. Kvery man knows that. Well, now suppose heaven, in its infinite mercy, would bestow a little sense upon those men in Congress — it is devoutly to be hoped for, although unreasonable to be expected — and those men would wake up to the inter- ests of the northwest hei'e— 1 will say Montana — and to the interests of northern Dakota, that is capable of supporting a population of ten million of people if a proper system of irrigation can be liad there, and the waters that are now going to waste could be mixed with the soil of God's earth to bring forth its increase. Until thai thing is done there is no reason for us to hope for a permanent ilawii ol prosperity. Why, I told Allison, said 1, you are as far behing old Rameses II, Monarch of the Pbaroahs. who lived four thousand yiMi's ago as it is possible for a Uongri\ssnian to be behind a sensible fellow like that. He saw the mighty inundations of the .\ile flowing into the Mediterranean while his lands were |)arched up and burned; his people were suffering from scurvey and all the evils attendant upon a dry climate, and he reasoned thus to himself, "Here I have my slaves, and I irrigate a little spot hent, and it produces wonder- fully. I will extend it." And he w^ent ahead, and by making vast reser- voirs and canals he economized the waters fiiat flowed down. He canaled and irrigated that whole country, and Egypt became under the magic power almost of that monarch the very garden and granary of the earth. ' Well now, what is there in the system of irrigation? All that we want, because everything is equally distributed here if we only understood it; if we could have reservoirs here to save this surplus of water whim it is flowing from the melting snows to the Yellowstone and the .Missouri an. I distribute it over the most of this ground in the tiry season here in sum- ijier. Take the Big Horn, the Jjftle Horn, the Powder River, and all these creeks that send down such volumes of water in the s|iring, and store that up in proper storehouses, in reservoirs, and use it during the dry season of the year, and every inch of this soil can be made as proihic- five as the soil of Egypt was. It would be a very expensive system. It cannot be done without great expense, but il can he done because it has been (lone. If it could be done by the Egyptians in their country, cannot il he done liy Americans in the nineteenth century? It may be "said that they had slaves, I have yet to learn that a free man where his interest IS involved cannot do as much as any slave either Egyptian or ,\frican: and I tell you the only hope for Montana is in adopting a sysleni of irri- gation here that will economize the water of this country and use it at the time when we need it in moistening the soil, in order that we may causi> the earth to produce its fruits. .This committee will he iiere in a few days. I favor the creation of a committee on irrigation for the jnir- pose of preparing some statistics to lay before these people: and as great wonders have been wrought upon men in the past, and as the scales have fallen from the ey(>s of lh(> blind in the past, and as (hose who have lost their sight were permitted to see, it is very possible that the Congress of the United Stales can go through the same miraculous transformation jiiid see the necessities of the western country. But I do not believe that it is pro[)er to insert lliis in the coiislilnlion. ('.lollie IIk^ Legislaliirc with CONSTITl I lO.SAI. CO.NVK.MIO.X 1889 501 tile powiM-. wtiK-h means to clollie the people witli the power, and if a iiustake is made one year tlie ijrople will not be slow to eorrect it; they will correct it the next: and thry will continue to improve in their in- li'iligence. in their enterprise, until they have discovered the true method ot accomplishing this desiraljle end. But to go and nail it down and to rivet it in the constitution, it it goes wrong, means to seal it up forever and for many years, witliout the possibility of revoking it. 1 hope the thing will be allowed to go to the Legislature so that they may consult with their constituents, and the people may have a chance to send men up to the Legislature to ascertain what our best interests are and to promote them. ilr. J. R. loole, of Ueer Lodge: In order to give us a further oppor- tunity to pursue the investigation into this matter of irrigation, I mo.e that we take a recess until two o'clock. ^Laughter The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge i.\lr. Toole . and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until 2 P. M. Wednesday. .Iiilj Slst, 1889. Afternoon session. The Convention was called to order at 2 1'. M. by the President. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The Convention was engaged in the consideration of unfinished business. The Convention has under consideration an amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin to Section 3. Mr. Uixon of Silver Bow: 1 desire to offer an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from (lallatin which 1 believe he is willing to accept. The President: The substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow for Section 3 will be read by the Clerk, and if the gentleman from 'o. 27. by Luce of Gallatin. After Section 3 add the following: And nufiiber the suc- ceeding sections to correspond. Section 4. Ditches, canals and flumes heretofore or hereafter constructed by any person, company or corpora- tion for tlie sale, rental, distribution or other beneficial use of water shall be taxed upon the annual net proceeds of such sale rental, distribution or use. Ill such manner as may be provided by law. Provided that the use and price of such water shall at all times be subject to regulation by the Board of County Commissioners or other authority as in this con- stitution provided: and provided further that this Section shall apply only to the ditches, canals and flumes of .such persons, companies or corpora- tions as shall within such time as may he provided 'by law after they coiiunence the sale, rental, distribution or use of water, make and file in the office df the Secretary of State their duly executed written consent to be subject to and comply with all ttie terms and conditions of this Section and all provisions of this Constitution and the failure of any such person, company or corporation to make and file such consent shall render the ditches, canals and flumes of such person, company or corporation, subject to taxation in the same manner as otlier property, without regard to this section, so long as said person, company or corporation fails to file such consent. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I will accept that substitute for my amendment. .Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I do not intend to occupy but a few minutes in making the remarks which 1 have to make on this amendment, and what 1 have to say will also be dir(>cted towards the motion of the gen- tleman from Custer to strike out section 3. It is not encouraging to at- tempt to say anything in favor of a proposition that is apparently as hope- less in favor of a proposition that is apparently as hopeless ad unpopular as the one which I am about to espouse in this convention: but I take it to be that the true rule of taxation shall be that all the property shall bear its just proportion of the burdens of taxation, and that the only ex- ception that should be made thereto are the properties of the United Sates, 502 PROCEiiLHNCiS AM) DEBATES .Munici|ial govcriiinriits, .Municipal (■iii-iinratiniis, and rliai'ilalilr iuslitutii.uis whii'h we have already pi'iiMded for. .Now I am not discussing tlie merits or demerits of the ameiuhiient whieli is offered by the gentleman, nor am i discussing the merits of section three towards which I lie motion to strike out is directed. I am ready to say that if this were a legislative body 1 would lieartily support both of those jiroposilions, but much as I dislike to repeat a proposition which has become familiar by its repctilioii in this convention, 1 do not believe that it is within the province of this body, that it is within the prescribed or proper duties of it, to insert anything of this character in the Constitution. I do not think there is a man upon this floor who should be here representing any industry in particular. 1 believe in the inter-dependence of all industries. 1 do not think you can strike a blow at tlie mining industry of this territory but wiiat you crip- ple every other great industry in this great State, and moreover do I believe that if you extend a preference to anyone of these industries you tend to correspondingly injure the other industries. There is still another way in which to look at this proposition. This Constitution is to be adopted by the people; it is to be approved by them. It is to meet with their Ideas of what is right, what is just, and what is proper. It is not a Con- stitution for the mining industry, it is not a constitution for the agricul- tural industry, nor for the stock industry but for the great people of this great State of IMontana. Now 1 pretend to say that while I here is merit in this, is it proper that it should be saddled upon the people as a per- manent conditional affair. Mr. President, the purposes of the constitution as I understand them to bi' are to declare principles with reference to conditions which in themselves are permanent. Legislation may be di- rected to conditions which are of a temporary character, and then when the conditions which have damaged them have passed away it is in the power of the Legislative assembly- to repeal the law which was enacted with reference to them when they were in existence; and for those rea- sons I propose to oppose the amendment which has been offered and I propose to support the motion of the gentleman from Custer to strike out this Section. As 1 said before, it is not that I am an enemy to the Section: it IS not that 1 oppose the merits of it, for I do not discuss that, but I do say that if this is adopted the constitution will fix this matter irrevocably by its act, and its effect will be that nohting short of a consttutional amendment can change it. It is directed towards conditions which are of themselves temporary and not of a permanent nature. I am well a\\"are of the fact that any word that 1 utter will do no good in this con\i'ntion. 'J'he convention has already adopted a certain theory in reference to it, and J have no doubt they will continue in it: but I have felt it my duty at this time to declare myself against making a great statute book out of the Constitution of the State of Montana. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow": I do no desire lo discuss this matter, but merely to state that it is desired to put this matter in relation to ditches in a subsequent section by itself and number it Section 4. The President: .The chair is aware that the member madi^ an I'l-i-or, but intended to correct it. The substitute offered by the gentleman from Silver How has no reference lo Section 3, and is not offered as an amend- ment to Section 3. It is stated here "A substitute for the amendment lo Section 3." But afterwards states "add the following and number the succeeding Sections to correspond. Section 'i." This being tlu' case the question now is upon the motion of the gentleman from Custer to strike out Section 3. That motion will take preci'dence to the consideration of this Seetion. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would like lo iiu|uiri' why wmit it be in the pi\iviiice of the convention lo amend the section and make it -^s (lerfect as possible. The President: If, is iidl, an ainrndnient In llie seclion Iml j- mailer for a separate section. Mr. Collins, of (Cascade: The motion nf the ,l:i'iiI leman Iri'iii Siher IJow County is lo amend Section 3 by pdding lo il. The President: No: it is to make it a separate section and mimber it Section 'i. The question before the convention now is upon the motion (d the gentleman from (Ulster, Mr. Burleigh, lo strike out Sectinn :i. .Mr. Hurlejgli. of Culler, called for Hie ayes and nays. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 503 The Prt'Sidt'iit : II Itu'ii' lu' iin nhji'duiu tlii' ayis and nays will be filtered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Burleigh. Burns, A. F.; Hartinan, Haskell, Hobson. Kennedy. Loud, Mitchell. Hainsdeil. Watson — 10. Nays: Aiken, Bicklord, Brazleton, Breeii, Brown, Buford. Burns. A. J.; Burns. Kdward; Callaway, Cardwell. Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Uixon, Uuilee, Oyer, Eaton, 1-ields, Gaylord, tTibson, Gillette, Graves, Haniinond, Hatch, Hershfield, Hickman, Hogan, Joy, Joyes, Kanouse. Knowles, Kolirs, Luce, Magmnis, Marrion, Marshall, Mayger, McAdow. Mulli, Myers, Parbeiry, Keek, Robinson, Rotwitt. Rick- ards. t?araent, Schmidt. 8lapleton. Toole, Joseph K.: Toole, J. R.; Warren, W hitehiU, W inston, Witter. Mr. President— 59. Absent: Bullard. Cauby, Goddard, Knippenberg, Middleton, Webster — 0. The Chair announced the vote and declared said motion lost. the President: the question recurs upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, which is to constitute a new section. The Clerk read the said amendment. Mr. Gibson, of Cascade: I am opposed to the passage of tins section because i believe it is an unjust discrimination in favor of such corpora- tions as are contemplated. If such exemption is made it will be because of the benefit that will accrue to Monlana from the construction of these canals or ditches. Now, if this principle is allowed, 1 cannot see why it should not apply to other corpurations in the Territory whose work redounds to the benefit and advantage of this Territox-y. i cannot see, if that principle is correct, why the Northern Pacific Railroad Company and the .Montana division of the .Manitoba Railroad Company should not be subject to this same exemption. These institutions, these corporations have done vastly for the development and benefit of Montana. The ad- vantages which have accrued from tlii'in cannot be estimated, and they will continue to benefit this Territory and develop it. It is a notorious fact that these institutions, these corporations have made no money out of .Montana. Their net profits amount to nothing, and I cannot see why, measured by the same principles, these railroads should not pay taxes on tlieir net earnings as well, 1 cannot see why the iron bridges that span the Missouri River down in Cascade and Choteau County should not be subject to the same rule. These corporations that have built these bridges have conferred and are conferring very great benefits upon Choteau and Cascade Counties and tfie farming interests of those sections of country. The stock interests are being very greatly benefited, and other interests are being benefited in proportion. In fact, I believe that the men of this I'erritory who are investing their money in great enterprises generally are benefactors, and if you consider the men who associated themselves together to build canals and ditches in this country, 1 cannot see why you should not consider the men who are investing their money in the development of the great many other interests of the Territory. I do not believe in the principle. 1 believe it should be relegated to the people. 1 believe this question is so vast and so important that you will take care (il it, and see to it that the best results accrue in the future. Now, I wish to say here that I am in favor of developing the agricultural interests <.f .Montana. I believe they can only be developed to their fullest extent In- the application of this system of irrigation contemplated. I believe the w-ater that flows out of "these mountains should be carried over the table lands and into the valleys of Montana, and 1 think every man is a bei.el'actor who fakes out a ditch and causes two spears of grass to grow where one was accustomed to grow. I believe in the agriculture of this country, and I believe .Montana will never become a great and pros- perous commonwealth until we lay strong the foundation of its agricultural interests. I am greatly in favor of any broad system which will utilize the waters of this country in agriculture: but I am not in favor of this particular measure. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: It has been asserted here upon the floor of this convention that in all probability the United States of America, or the state of Montana, would take into consideration and perhaps into actual operation the control of all the waters of the Territory, and so distribute them that every man shall have his share of them. Now. that 504 PROCKJbDliNCiS AND DEBATES is one — if I may lie t'xcuscd by (lie i^culliMiirn \vh(i tuiM' iulrc^ducod this Idea here — ttiat is (iiie ol' tlie iinprai'lu-able notions that, prevail. Wliile we started as tar bacli as 1878. and only this year was there a junketing tour ol' several gentlemen to come out and look at us and see if we were still inoculated with the idea of bringing a little w'aler on our land. We have knovvai that ever since the first settler threw down his pack in Montana. 11 is not a new thing. How are you going to do this, if it is done at all? We have provided in our constitution, as is provided in every other, tliat private property cannot be taken for public use without com- pensation. It is in gt'neral considered that any water right now acquired IS private property as sacred as any otlier property, as sacred as a farm. Then let us understand how the state, for instance, is to take cliarge of tins system of irrigation and give us one great comprehensive system that is to ecjualize all these waters and distribute them over the Territory. It IS one of those things thai no man can find out. Let me tell you the man IS not witlim the sound of my voice now that will ever live to see any such thing. Vou come in contact with every right, every riparian right and every other such obstacle in the way of success of such enterprises. Whenever this country is made to blossom as the rose, whenever these lands are reclaimed from their du.sty, dry condition, it will be by the lorce of individual enterprise and by private enterprise. Let me tell you another thing. Nou cannot get together today, as the law now stands, and bring one dollar of capital from abroad into this state to build a big Irrigating ditch anywhere. If you think so. try it. It cannot be done, i'eople do not let their money out from a distance. They will not bring it here or send it here to be controlled by County Commissioners. There seein to be obstacles enough thrown around the distribution of water in the fact that the rental of these waters shall be left to the Boards of County Commissioners in the respective counties. Tliis is enough to shut out all foreign enterprise in this matter' anil all foreign capilal. Xobody but our own people will ever do it. Mow, I want to call your attention to a state of facts that perhap.s was not considered, and that is that tlie private irrigating ditches now in use have been brought upon all the lands tliat any private individual is capable or able to bring water to. The other enterprises to come are such as, will bring water to vast bodies of land, larger bodies of land. It cannot be done by individual enter- prise, or probably by home capital. No one farmer can sit down now and pay fifty to seventy-five thousand dollars to bring out an irrigating ditch to irrigate sixty-five to seventy acres of land, however desirable it may be. Farmers have fieretofore joined together, four, five, six, eight or ten of them, and have brought vv^ater out and put it upon their respec- tive farms. Now, consider one moment this state of affairs. Suppose that the ten men go into operation to bring out water over ditches for ten pieces of land. Without that water not one of those pieces of land is worth a cent. 1 will show you land all over tins Territory in the same condition year after year which is entirely worthless without water. Then they go to work at an expense of fixe thousand dollars apiece and bring out this water and reclaim this land. The aggregate expense is fifty thousand dollars. The land, when reclaimed, each tract is worth ten thousand dollars apiece. Then you have a tract of land Ihal will be worth to tlie Territory one hundred thousand dollars by the combined operation of these same men. What will you do? The proposition that now stares me in the face if this is voled down is that the assessor may come and assess this one hundred thousand dollars of properly, assess It as he assesses every other species o\ properly, and it is right enough. But it has b(!en created by one irrigating ditch, and then he goes to this other irrigating dilch and he lakes thai also. That is the proposition now before this convention. 1 cannot see that lliere is any wisdom in such a ])roposition. If lher(« is aiiytliing (hat should b(> fostered it is the agri- cultural iiiter'ests of this counlry, and 1 do not want lo sei> the agricultural interest of this country fostered to the detriment of any other interest: but 1 undertake to say that when you foster thai intiM-est in this way you add lo every other interest, because you can stretch your eye out here through Ihe'valley (d' the (iallatin, if you please, the best irrigated valley today in Montana, and you will see thousands upon thousands of acres ol land that are nol worth one cent in their present condition: and on the other hand, you may cast your cyo upon any stream and you will see thousands upon Ihousands and niillions u\' inches of walrr rnnning to CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 505 waste and doing nobody any good. Oh. genllonien tell me that after a while the state will take these up in great reservoirs and distribute them. It will never be done by us while your son. or your son's son, or your grand- son's son lives. I^el us take cai'e of ourselves today. The great" foundation of our wealth is agriculture. I would not give niueii for the industry of mining or any other industry in this eountry if it were not supplemented and supported by this interest of the agriculturist. N ou must not forget that the production, or the conducting of water upon land, creates some- thing new. It makes that green and lovely and beautiful to the eye and useful to man that was before a sage brush patch. Why, you could not picket a mule over night and get enough to sustain him to carry you five miles the next day. All this land may be made as green as the valley of the Nile, as my friend said this morning. That ^•alley, gentlemen, where old Herodilus, the Greek, was cast away and fnund a new kind of life and new civilization thai the tireeks had never beard of before, and old Keroditus went back and tolil the (ireeks of the new god. the eloquent god, and that was the god af water. Water was the great creator and great regenerator in his day, and it is the same today. Give us water today in Mon- tana and we will give you a garden: we will have more water and less wliiskey, let me tell you. Wait until the United States, or the state of .Montana, takes care of this proposilion, and you will have dust flying in your eyes forever, as you have had it here this summer. Look at the spectacle of gentlemen now who have valuable stock, and valuable blooded slock in this Territory, purchasing hay from eastern states to bring to .Montana. We can store up all these waters in reservoirs or dams, and there is enough for all reclamation there can ever go on for the next fifty >ears, to say the least: but we want nothing of this kind: nothing will ever come of it: and 1 do say I cannot understand how any gentleman in this convention can vote on this third section here aye, and nay for the fimrtli section proposed by the gentleman from Silver How. Mr. President, gen- tlemen, only reflect one minute. Think of the immense irrigated lands or China. 'I'hose are tlie greatest irrigators on the face of the earth, and ('^ery man irrigates there for himself, and I want to correct my old friend from Custer when he tells the convention that old Rameses II built dams and reservoirs up there. They took it out of the Nile. They had the simplest kinds of methods for raising the watei' while it was high, carry- ing it in buckets, and every other way they could get the water. When you put water upon arid lands you can safely rely upon the most valuable crops. Irrigation is more reliable than rain. Irrigation cannot possibly be carried on in any country where they depend upon rain: irrigation must be where they depend upon iri'igation. because in other countries where the I'ains descend you may irrigate and llien down will come a rain on your crop and destroy it. But the climate of this country is such that you can depend always on irrigation if you can get the water. Xow, gen- tlemen, the question is whether yon will have these millions of acres of land •that cannot be reached in any other way except by thi- combined capital of men of your own territory — because that will be Ihi' kind of capital emi)loyed — or Whether any jtarty who is willing to put in his money here and ci'eate one hundred thousand acres of land by constructing a ditch that will cost him one hundn^d thousand dollars will be taxed out of existence for his ditch, or whether he will encourage that man lo come along with bis ditch and make this new land and add it to the T'erritory — add this new life, and put us in a condition that whenever we ge.t a drought as we have this year, the next ordinary season we may not be compelled to go down to Nebraska to buy our hay. or to Dakota, or any other placi', Ni buy our wheal. .Mr. Burleigh, of Cusler: 1 am surprised thai the gentleman should have so far misaiipreliended the tenor of my remarks as to suppose that I Mas opposed to any system of irrigation: but it was in the manner in which It was to be conducted, carried on. that I objected: that is, by legislating il in the convention here and putting it in the constitution. Xow while lie was talking he made a great many broad assertions, and T imagined at first that I was in a trance, and that something like the thunders and the lightnincs of Sinai were passing around my head: and I wondered, in that condition if, when the thing was over and he got down into the presence of the Golden Calf, if he would snatch the tablets of Moses and destroy them, or whether it was true that he. like Elisha of old, had fallen heir to Ihe mantle of wisdom that hail fallen from the 506 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES shoulders ol Elijah wln'ii In' was about crossing the Jordan. Now, he lias gone on hore to slate what he knows about agrriculture and irrifration, but he has given us no evidenee lliat he knows anything about eitlier of them. I doubt wlietlier tie is a farmer; 1 doubt whether hr irngali-d at on(> lime more than six inehes ol land laughter : if he has. he has faileil to say wliere it is, and how it was, and where is was done'. I am as mueli in favor of irrigation as he is, and I believe in the advantages of it as much as he does. 1 believe that withoul irrigalKui here upon a broad and comprehensive scale that this Territory can never prosper as an agricul- tural district: but 1 did not wish to see men come in here and labor, and toll, and al last find themselves in the clutches of a corporation I hat for the use of the water would wTing everything out of them except the very staff of life. It is not to be supposed thai men engaged in tht- business would kill the goose that lays the golden egg entirely, neither is it to be supposed that the men who embark in this system of irrigation w^ill so utterly prostrate the people who do the labor as to prevent (liem from getting a profit out of them. But I tell you that the man who puts his faith in corporations is a fool, and he will find that he has got into meshes trom which he will never extricate himself. I hope this mailer will be fostered by the people of .Montana, but I do not believe this is the proper place In put it; and therefore 1 introduced the amendment which so ingloriously found its way to the tomb of oblivion here. But I believe it 1^ right. 1 think thai when the people come to find and understand the workings of it that you \\i\[ sustain the action of the few men wlm xulrd to strike it out. -Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow; The importance of this question of irri- gation is understood by all. The increase in our population will be largely accelerated or retarded by the manner in which this matter is treatei). The question is so large and so complicated that it seems to me that any 7-esolution which We can paragraph here will fail to reach its object, and that there is danger, as staled by the genlleman from Lewis iV: (Clarke this morning, that we will make some mistake. It seems to me that we would not make a mistake if we would introduce a section in this proposition something like this, that the Legislature at its first regular session shall a|ip(diit a commission to consist of. say, three civil engineers, who shall make a thorough and exhaustive survey of the water and of the arirl lands of the state, the estimated cost of building these ditches, and submit a report to the liCgislature for a grand comiirehensive system of irriga- lioii for the whole state. Our Senators and Ri'iuM^sentatives have been instructed to request «_;ongri'Ss to make an appropriati striking out al random, and until in a manner we can surround the whole question and enclose il comprehen- sively, r do not Ihink thai Montana will i'\'er reaj) llie bi'n(>fit from irriga- tion which il should. I therrd'ore am opposed for Ihat reason to any id' these resolutions or amendments, and Ihink it slioiijd be left |o the Legis- lature to decide in some such manner as I have mentioned. The Presioent: The question is upon the adoption (d' the aineiidiufiil. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I thought this matter was settled yesterday in the Committee of the \^'hole. I was very much surpriseil to find loday that we have got to go over llie same ground again. 1 lu'lieve wdli a number of the gentlemen who ha\e sp(dafter grind the people more than any other thing that has been thought of in this Convention, and thinking so. 1 hope that the good sense of this Convention will come forward and relegate it to where it belongs, to the Legislative .Assembly, if the people have anything to say the Legislative .Assembly will never jiass a thmg like this; never, sir. And I hope that on second tliought the lobbying that has been done in the last twenty-four hours will pro\'e of no avail; and that the monopolists and capitalists who propose to control the waters of (uir country will be relegated to the rear for a few years yet. This provision pmvides that only ditches that are built by capitalists shall be relieved from taxation. The twenty ditches, or fifty ditches, or one hundred ditches, as the case may be, which capitalists will construct will not pay a cent of taxes, but the thousands, or you miglil say tens of thousands of ditches built by tlie poor men will pay their burden of taxa- tion to supijort the government, and to suptiort the men who own these big ditches. Tliose gentlemen do not look with an eye of pll> In llie tens of thousands wlio have to make tlieir living, but they are n'ad> to be- stow their bounty upon the few capitalists that are to a;|ipropriate the waters of this country. 1 say that if those gentlemen feel that way tlie convention will not bear them out in it. 1 have given the sub,|ect of mining property a close study, not only at this convention Inil at the convention ot ISHi; and I came to the Lonventioii of I8S1 )irepossesseij in favor (if placing; that class of i)ropr'rly in the same class with other property. I 1 1 mug hi thai it should be taxed ,just as other (iroperly is taxed, but upon an iinesligation of tlie subject not only then but now. my candid opinion is that it can not possibly lie done; and I say further that mining property under this pro- vision of ours is fully taxed; we tax it for its (iovernment price: we tax it it' you put a reiic(> around it for pasturage purposes: we lax it for il< farming purpose's if you fai'm il; we tax tlie house, the works and machin ery, and the ini])ro\emeiits, and e\-erytliing around and aboul it. And not only that but we tax the net proceeds wliatexcr tlie Legislature id' Mon- tana may see fit to provide: tliey can lax those net proceeds for any amouiil of money they see lit. Now in ttiis taxation of ditch property you do not pretend to tax anything. Von do not tax the jraiudiis(> which is very val- uable; you do not tax the lumber which is emidoyed in the construction id' il; you do not tax tlie Improvement; you do not tax the macliiiiery: xnn do not tax a thing, ^llu let it go scot free. Nou are going further: you are getting up a seiiliineni m l'a\or of tlie ( iiiNcrnmeiil siiending millions of dollars to reservoir \iinr waler. and v;i\in:; a few capillalisis llie prixi- CU.NSTITUIIONAL CONVKMIUN 1889 509 lege of following afti-r Uieiii and apiJiopiiating the use of all that inoiioy amJ all that water. 1 believe sir with the gentleman from Silver Bow County that if we turn outselves into a legislative body, wise legislation demands that we should send experts oul to investigate this question and act upon it after this investigation. If we do not propose to turn ourselves into a Leg- islative body then let us send Ibis question to the Legislative Assembly v.here it belongs. In this connection I should like to read what a gentle- man will) \Mis here tlie other day. and in whose honor we adjourned for a few inomenls. says about Legislation in the Constitution. lUere the gentleman from Cascade read the opinion of Judge Cooley . This is sage advice from a sage constitutional lawyer, and if we follow it in this in- stance, and in a great many other instances, we will be following in the rigfit direction. -Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. W 111 not the gentleman concede that by striking out the last part of Section 2 tliat this thing is cut off entirely from the Legislature? Mr. Collins of Cascade: I was going to say before 1 got through Ifiat that pari of Section 2 in my opinion should be left in this provision. If you pass this piece of legislation loosely dra\Mi and only considered for a few nioments. you will allow a few people of Montana to get together and or- ganize themselves into an organization and select the very choicest waters of Montana, the waters that will cost the least to bring oiit upon the table- lands and uplands, and to give them such a inonoply as no corporation in Montana ever had before: and you will give them tiiat monopoly without paying a cent of tribute to the people for it. All modern legislation in every State in the Lnion. not only in every State in the Union but even in despotic Russia — and countries governed by Iviiigs and (Jueens — tends to taxing natural properly. The Constitution of .Montana in this respect will tend to make only monopolists and let them go scot free forever. That is just about the difference. .Now I hope this matter will be sent to where it belongs. My friend from Gallatin asked me a question concerning this Section 2. .Vow 1 would like to see that amendment stricken out by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke and incorporated in this provision. 1 think this is a wise provision and I believe it should be incorporat.'j in our constitution, the State of \\ isconsin has one of the nicest revenue constitutional provisions in the world, and it only comprises the first line of the half of our first section. Such men as have given this matter thought and study p(unt with pride to the revenue article in the Constitution of W isconsin. That gives the Legislative Assembly the power to collect revenues from any source they may see fit, and gives them power to ex- empt such properties as they see fit. I believe you should make this article what it ought to be. what it is destined to be by the committee, after a great deal of consideration. I think that the amendment should be placed back in the section, and I will state that yesterday when the matter was voted down Dy a few votes, and only a few votes, I rose at once to ask for a division of the ayes and nays, but the President had his altention called to the other side of the house, and Mr. Marshall was recog- nized, and 1 think it only fair that the members of the House should allow the Committee to have a separate vote upon this provision of Section 2. 1 hope it will be allowed, Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: This is the first time 1 have heard that there was any lobbying in this body, and this is the first time that it ever occurred to me that there could be in this bill anything of a monop- oly. 1 do not see how it is possible that all of the evil consequences that the gentleman has despicted here, and depicted with so much feeling and earnestness, can accrue from the passage of this bill. .Now, certainly the section of the country that. I live in has no particular interest in this measure, and they have no particular interest in building up any body who IS to monopolize the agricultural districts of this Territory. 1 do not know of a gentleman in that section of the country that has any scheme of that kind. Now, 1 do say that where the price for water with a man who takes a water ditch is to be limited by the County Commissioners, that there can be no monopoly. If anything, the man wlio builds .?uch a ditch as that wtII not get enough money out of it. I know gentlemen will say, "Why. they can control the County Commis- sioners." Gentlemen, men who build big ditches and live away from the community cannot control County Commissioners, and if they had control of them for one year they cannot control them for the next. 510 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Maginnis, ol' Lewis & Clarkfi: 11 my Iriend will allow me just one question. Mr. Kuowles, of Silver Bow: Certainly: Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Did you ever know of e.xcessive lolls being collected in tins country when ttie fixing of the tolls was left to the County Commissioners? .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: 1 never knew they were left to the County Commissioners to fix. I never knew that the contracts or ctiar- ters were ever let for tolls in this country with any provision of that kind in them. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis iS: Clarke' The earlier ones were, but the later ones were not. Mr. Knowles, of Silvei' Bow: Well, if you will show me now where there was one that ever amounted to anything, where its charges were regulated iDy the County Commissioners, it is something that I know nothing of. "lou take this one that is east from the Little Prickly Pear down upon the Dearborn; you take the Little English ^^'oman out on this road west of here. There was nothing of that kind. Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Priests Koads were built and they were regulated by the County Commissioners. .Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: The tolls were, as 1 remember, entirely optional with the traveler. He could pay or not, as he pleased. Mr. .Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: What brought this lo my mind is that a gentleman and myself were interested in a mine in Idaho, and there the County Commissioners were allowed to fix the tolls. They built a road from Lake Ponderay: they built a road about five miles long, and 1 think the tolls wen- about fni' dollars a load. 'J'he County Coinmissioners were in with the job: Ihat was all there was about it. .Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: There may be such a thing as corrupt (;ounty Commissioners. There are corrupt officials, there is no doubt of It. But the people have the remedy in their hands ultimately about such matters as this: the people ultimately can control. The people that own land that will be irrigated by these ditches are more m number than the men who own the ditches; they have the influence: their influ- ence will be more, and they will control this matter. If Ihis was a busi- ness proposition, 1 w:ould say that it would be doubtful whether they could ever raise any money to build an irrigating ditch in Montana Terri- tory without that provision. But it is thought there would be irrigating ditches built under such regulations as that. Well, now, where there are such regulations as that 1 think it is but fair to say that they shall be taxed only upon the net incoiiii' Irom those ditches. I think "that is perfectly fair, and if you go to fixing up anything else and leave it alone in relation to these matters, I think there will be more trouble, and Ihal they will get a bill through the Legislature that will allow these men to charge more exorbitant rates than if you were to put this mailer in the hands of the County Commissioners. The County Commissioners are responsible to the people of their county, and they are close to them. The Legislature is not, and as in these large mining counties, they are very little interested in that mattiM-. A'ow, something has been said about this scheme of surveys. \\ liy. to survey .Montana Territory and fix up any scheme at all or any proposition for any grand irrigation here would cost in the first step !SoO. you going lo do then? .Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis A: Clarke: The liiiliNl Stales GovernmenI has authorized the surveys. Mr. Knowh's. of SiIvim' Bow: N es, the GovernmenI has aulhorizeil the surveys, but for Montana I'errilory to start in wilh those surveys, why, it will be a great deal of expense, and there will be no result. .Now. the gentleman from Cascade has read tiere from statistics and inatle remarks of how much it is going to cost for four per cent bonds, and how much for a sinking fund, but he has IcMI out entirely in that calculation the expense of kei'pmg up and mamlaining a ditch, and of distributing, selling and disposing of that water, and that is more than all of the interest, and more than the sinking fund. Vou cannot turn in and pro- vide for distributing and selling and disposing of this waler without a considerable expense. In privati> enterprises there is nothing of this kind aboul the mieresi (in the money that il cosis to build the ii'rigaliiig CUNJ>ilTLTI().NAL CU.WK.MIU.N 1889 511 ditcli and a .sinking fund, and the nUicr incidfidal.s that men will have to jiay for. .Now. gentlemen, let me say thai ui relation to all iniblic eiitei'- prise.s of tins kind that there are always expenses: that they cost more generally than private enterprises, and they beeome a public matter, and they get into politics, the same as the great Erie Canal in i\ew York, and they will create infinite trouble. .My judgment is in favor of pi'ivate enterprises for irrigation, if they can be properly conducted. I am per- fectly unable to see how- this thing is to be such a great ami grinding monopoly under the limitations that are prescribed, and I have this to say, that the gentleman who wrote this section and presented it here, and those who consulted with him, myself and Mr. Toole, certainly were not lotibymg during this recess. If this gentleman, or any other gentleman, thinks there was any lobbying with Mr. Dixon and .Mr. Toole and myself about this matter of drawing up this proposition, they are the worst mistaken men m the whole world. We thought it was a good scheme, to use the phrase of the times, and we were willing to favor it: but if the gentlemen from the agricultural districts do not wish to encourage the bill for pi'ixale irrigating ditches for the sale and distribution of water under tile limitalion proMded in this constitution, why. we want to assure them we don't want to put it upon them. We are not here to crowd anytliiiig of this kind upon them. We only did it because we thoughl it was gooti for the agricultural districts, and that it would encourage build- ing irrigating ditches to some extent, and help build up these communi- ties and make them prosperous and happy, there is nobody back of us in this matter; nothing is prompting us here but our idea of doing what IS the best for tlie community: and 1 would like for every man who lives in an agricultural district to say here whether he wants this or mil: and If they don't want it, they will find that we will not vote for it, .\lr. Warri'ii, of Silver Bow: I nio\e the previous question. .Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: .\ir. President, 1 have listened to tins discussion with some little interest, and while I belie\e a great many of the gentlemen who have preceded me haxc spoken upon this ijuestion at random, there ha^e been some very good ideas thrown out by the gentle- men nevertheless. I live in a strictly agricultural district." In 1882. a corporation known as the Minnesota & Montana Land c^: Inpro\ement Company constructed a ditch forty miles long, which is taken out of the Yellowstone Kiver at a point about 39 miles aboxe Billings, and runs the entire length of the valley, which is known as the Clarks Fork \alley, covering thousands of acres. The comiiaiiy owumt; that ditch purchased from -Nortlieni Pacific Railroad Company the odd sections below tlie ditch in that ^alley. This ditch is supposed to ha\c a capacity of lO.OUO inches. The year after the ditch was built, in 1883. tln' ditch company sold water to the farmers at 75 cents an inch, and the farmers even grumbled at that price; but it was found by the ditch company that they could not afford to sell the water even at that price, and there was a vear or two there (hat the farmers had no water, at least at the lower end id ihe ditch. The consec^uence was that their crops were a failure. Tliev pul m thousands of acres of oats and some wheat, and other crops, got no water, and they had a failure. The ditch company, for two years, 1 believe, did not pretend to operate its ditch, for the reason that the heavy rams and the water spouts had broken their flumes down, and it would necessitate the expenditure of thousands of dollars of money to keep it in repair. They even went so far as to petition the Board of County Com- missioners at two or tliree Spring sessions to exempt the ditch and its property from taxation. I'hey undertook to do it, I believe, last ye;ir, and at that time the County Commissioners came to me for advice upon the subject, as I was the County Attorney at Ihe time, and I advised them that they had no power to exem[d the ditch company from taxation. But contrary to my opinion and my advice they did exempt it. Then the ditch company concluded that they would not operate that ditch any longer. The farmers were there by the hundreds petitioning the ditch company to put its ditch in repair and operate it. The consequence was that the company made a proposition to the Board of County Commis- sioners to have the right to fix the water rate, that if they would enter into a contract w'ith them to guarantee that they would not lower the rate below .$2 an inch for ten years, that they would expend ■?25.000 upon their ditch in repairing the flumes and bridging the ditch, and furnishing water to the farmers. This matter was discussed pro and con there, and 512 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES when tlip farmers (houglit tluit (hey were yum;^ In lo.sr Ihis opportunity they eaine dowii thei-e by liunilri'ds. as 1 said, and plead with the County Commissioners (o enter iiihi tliat eoiitraet extending over a period ot ten years lor .fi^ an ineh for I lie water, and it was finally done. And now that diti'h eonipany has a eontraet with the County Commissionei-s wlii(di 1 do nol think is binding, but at any rate tliey liave a eontraet witli the County Commissioners for ten years liial they will not reduce the water rate lowei' than •t;:i an inch. So that 1 belie\e I ha\e seen the practical working of this matter of irrigation sufficiently to be able to state ad- Msedly that there is not a corporation in the world that can build a ditch, and with the water rales which farmers can afford to pay, make any great amount of money oul ol il. I know that the inanagei- df thai dilcii company, Mr. Uailey, slated In the Comity Commissioners (hat they had lost money from the time that the dilch was built down to the time they had made the contract, to say nothing about the original cost of the ditch: that the operation of the dilch— that the tolls collected were not sufficient lo nay llie expanse of keeping the ditch in repair. Since that ditch was buifl three liaxc liren two or tliree otliiT ditches built by private indixiduals and cor])orations. There is one down thi're, I bi'lie\e, that is about twelve or thirteen miles long. It has a capacity of between three and four thousand inches, which was built by the farmer's along the line of Ihi' ditch, who finally incorporaled, and are today an incor|)orated company. Each of the persons who had an interest in the ditch look that interest in stock. That enterprise, 1 believe, is successful. It is a short ditch, and everybody who resides under it and owns any land under il has stock in it, and they bought their slock simply liy putting that much work into the ditcti with their teams and their hands. Bui I do not believe that this convention is running up against Ilie snag thai (hi- gentleman from Cascade County has shown here. I do not beliexc (hat it this provision is allowed to remain in thi' constitution that it will be detrimental to the interests of the people (d' .Montana, but I do believe that It will encourage the building ol ditches in all of this agricultural counlry, which will redound to the interests of the farmers, and neces- sarily to the mtersts of the people of Montana. The President: The question is upon the adoption of Section 4 as introduced by the gentleman from Sil\er Bow. If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered ii|inn the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken. Bickford, Browne. Callaway. Carpenter. Cauby, Chess- man. Conrad, Cooper, Dixon, Durfee, Dyer, Eaton, Gaylord. Goddard. Graves, Hammond, Hersh field, Hobson, .Jov, Kanouse. Kemiedv. Knowles. Kohrs. Luce. Alarrion, .Marshall, .McAdow. Middlelon. Mitchell, Mutb. Myers, I'arberry, Ramsdell, Schmidt. Toole, Jos. K.: Toole, .). W.: Wliilebill. W iiiston— 39. .Nays: Breen. Buforil, Burleigh, Burns. A. J-'.; Burns. .\. J.: Burns. Edward: Collins. Courtney. (;ra\(Mi. Field, Gibson, Gillette, Hartman, Hask- ell. Hatch, Hickman, Hogaii. Loud. .Magnmis. -Mayger. Reek. Robinson. Rot Witt, Hickard. Sargent, Staiileton, \\ arien, Watson. Witter. Mr I'resi dent— 3tt. Absent: Brazleldii. Billiard, (lardw i>ll. .Joyes. Knippenberg. Webster — ti. The (;hair announced the vnle, and the amendment was ileelared disposed of permauenlly. We cannot offer amendments to this section intelligently, and I would like to see it printed bidore it is incorpaled in the constilulion. The inolion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said nidtinn of tlie gi'iilleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins) and the same was declared carried. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I move you. sir. that Ihe Pnipiisillnn .No. 2i) be printed, and the same action bad iipnn it as Ihis last proposilion that has just been voti'd upon. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I move to amend the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin that the ayes and nays be called for Section 3. .Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I accept Ihe ameiidmenl. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 5ia The Pri'.sidont : The ayes and nays wore called upon the questiiin t llii> i^i'nlleiiiaii froni Li'wis A; Clarke (Mr. Carpenter and a vote heiiig lakeii tlie same was declared carried. There being no further amemlmenls to Sectiim S. the Clerk nad Section 9, as follows: "Sec. 9. The rate of taxation of real and personal properly for stale purposes in any one year shall never exceed (.3^ mills on each dollar id ^■aluation; and whenever the taxable property in the stale shall aniouiil to one hundred million dollars ($IO<».(MKi,noOi the rate shall not exceed two and one-half (I'Vai mills on each dollar of valuation; and wheni>ver the taxable properly in the slate shall amount to three hundred million dollars f.$:iO().()00,(i(i()i the rate shall never thereafter exceed one di null on each dollar of valuation; unless a proposition to increase such rate, specifying the rate proposed and the time during which the same shall be levied, shall have been submitted Id the people at a general election, and shall have received a majority of all the voles cast for and against it at such election." CONSnTLTlUNAL C<_).\VE.\T1U.\ 1889 515 There being no amendment Ui Section V. tlio Clerk read Section 10, as follows: "Sec. 10. All taxes leMcd lor state purposes shall be paid into the state treasury, and no money shall be drawn from the treasury but iu pursuance ol specific appropriations made by law." .Mr. Loud, of Custer: 1 desu'e to offer an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Custer offers an amendment to Section 10. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 10 by adding the following: "The Legislature shall provide for an annual tax. sufficient to defray the estimated expenses of the state for each year; and whenever it shall happen that such ordinary expense ot the state lor any year shall exceed the income of the state for such year, the Legislature shall provide for levyinjj a tax for the en- suing year, sufficient with other sources of income to pay the deficiency of the preceding year, together with the estimated expense of such en- suing year." Mr. Loud, of Custer: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Loud, of Custer: The reason 1 offer this is that in the Executive L>eiiartment we have adopted a section that provides that the Governor shall transmit an estimate of the expense of the Government for the year, and also that this provides that there never shall be any surplus in the treasury: at the same time we have a surplus of a little over one hundred thousand dollars. As far as Custer County is concerned, our tax levy is now 28^2 mills. For that reason, we do not feel like contributing anything to allow it to remain idly in the state treasury, and this amend- ment that I have offered is a copy verbatim from one adopted by the state of Texas last year. They had a surplus in their state of two millions of dollars, and they found it necessary to convene the Legislature in an extra session to dispose of the surplus, and also to prevent its occurring a second time, and they adopted this amendment. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: This is based on the policy that the Legisla- ture will levy a tax for each fiscal year upon an estimate, but that the rate shall not be any more than is specified in this section, unless it is submitted to a vote of the people. Under the amendment offered by the gentleman the rate can be any amount the Legislature may see fit. So that I think the section as it stands is better than the one offered. .Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: I beg to suggest to the gentleman fiDiTi Custer that he is guilty of a slight error, probably unintentional, hut the surplus in the Territorj- now at present is about $36,000 or §37,000 dollars, instead of §100,000: and furthermore, this matter has been given considerable attention by the Committee on Finance, which I have the lienor to serve on, and we have after due and careful deliberation of this matter— it was not upon a moment's notice, but we studied this matter, and we came to the conclusion to suggest the adoption of this section for the financial interests and good of the state: and I think it would be wise if we adopted the section as recommended by the Committee on Finance. -Mr. Collins, of Cascade, asked for the reading of the amendment again. The Clerk read the same for the information of the gentleman. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: The Clerk read this as an amendment to be added to the section. Is that an amendment to be added, or is it a substitute for the section? Mr. Loud, of Custer: The intention is to add that to the section. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I do not see any objection to incorporating that in this article; but I should think it should be a new section. It would make that section very long, and it is a subject matter different from the matter treated in the section already; .so I think if it is incorporated it should be in a new section. I move to amend that far, that instead of incorporating it in this section it be made a new section. Mr. Loud, of Custer: I will accept the amendment. The President: This amendment if adopted will constitute a new section to be numbered II. and the other sections will be renumbered to correspond. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I am not opposed to the proposition, or the amendment, but it occurs to me that it is somewhat inconsistent with the section that we have just considered: that is, that Section 9, or Sec- 516 PRUCiiKDINOS AND DEBATES tion 10. I liclii'Vi' as remimbered, si'eiiis In provide ;i liiiutaUnii. 'I'lien tins proposcel new section seems to take oil' tlie curb and leave on the limitation; and if tins new section was made to relate back or referred to tile limitation in tlie section that is here, it would be all right; but there '■.frtaniy should be some sort of limitation. It seems to nie that consider- ing all things these two sections are inconsistent. 1 may be mistaken about it. but 1 have heard it read two or three limes. My impression is that Section 9, or 10, 1 think it is. fixes a limitation by which ta.xes cannot be levied, and that the proposed section permits a tax to be levied aceoni- ing to an estimate without limitation. Now, if that is true, the two sec- tions are inconsistent, and I should not be in favor of tlie proposed aiiiend- nient, because 1 believe Ihat Ihe levying of taxes should be held within some sort of reasonable bonds. The L,egislature is disposed as a rule to be governed by about what money it has in the treasury. When the Legislature convened last winter there was about $130,000 m the treasury, and it is particularly apparent that that Legislature governed themselves accordingly, for there certainly was a good deal of extravagance of that Legislature, and as the gentleman suggests, we have today about •'t>3(5,000 dollars in the treasury, when in the early part of last January there was over $130,000. If that proposed section, as 1 understand it, takes off this limitation, 1 certainly should be opposed to it. The Lhair put the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Uuster (Mr. Loud), and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 10, the Clerk read Section 11 of the printed proposition as follows; "Sec. 11. Taxes shall be levied anu collected by general laws and for public purposes only. They shall be uniform upon the same class of subjects within the territorial limits of the authority levying the tax." There being- no further amendiiients to Section II, the Clerk read Section 12 of the printed proposition as follows; "Sec. 12. No appropriation shall be made nor any expenditure author- ized by the Legislative Assembly, whereby the expenditure of the state during any fiscal year shall exceed the total tax then provided for by law and applicable to such appropriation or exiienditure, unless the Legisla- tive Assembly making such appropriation shall provide for levying a sufficient lax, not exceeding the rates allowed in Section nine (9) of this article, to pay such appropriations or expenditures within such fiscal year. This provision shall not apply to appropriations or expenditures to suppress insurrection, defend the state or assist in defending the United States m time of war. No appropriation of public moneys shall be made for a longer term than two years." Then' being no amendment to Section 12, Ihe Clerk read Section 13 of the printed copy. "Sec. 13. The State Treasurer shall keep a separate account of each fvuid m Ins hands, and shall at the end of each quarter of the fiscal year report to llie (iovernor in writing, under oath, the amount of all moneys in his hands to the credit of every such fund, and the place or places where the same is kept or deposited, and the number and amount of every warrant paid or redeemed by him during Ihe quarter. The (io\erii- or, or other person or persons authorised by law, shall verify said report and cause the same lo b(> imiiiedialely imblished m at least one news- paper printed at the seat of government, and otherwise as Ihe Legjslati\e Assembly may require. The Legislative Assembly may provide by law I'urlher regulations for the safe keeping and management of the public funds in the hands of the treasurer; but notwithstanding any such regula- tion, the treasurer and his surelies shall, in all cases, be liekl responsible therefor." There being no ameiidmenis lo Seclioii 13, Ihe Clerk reail Seclidn li of the printed copy as follows; Sec. 14. The making of protil diil of public moneys, or using the same for any purpose not aulhori/ed by law, by an.\ public officer, siiall be deemed a felony and shall be punished as provideil by law; bill part of such punishment shall be disqualification lo hold public office for a period of not less than ten years." There being no amendment lo Section 1 4. the Clerk read Section 15 of the printed copy. (Should be the section above quoted on aciniunt of renumbering of sections.) COXSTrrL:LK)\AL CONVENTION 1880 517 Mr. Muldli'ton, of CusUn-: I move to ainond Section 15 by stfikiiis out tlic last lour words on Ime 3 and all of line 4. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I do that because I believe that a man who is cOHMcted of felony should never be again qualified to hold public office in the state. The words stricken out are "for a period of not less fliain ten years." .Mr. Herslifield. of Lewis & Clarke: 1 hardly know as one of the Committee on Finance how that crept into our report. It must ha\e been a mistake. The intention of our committee was to eliminate that section and to report a section such as is suggested by my friend from Custer. Therefore I think it is quite proper tiie gentleman's amendment should be adopted. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Middleton i and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendment to Section 15 (as renumbered) the Clerk read Section Iti of the printed copy as renumbered. "Sec. 16. The Ciovernor. Secrelary of State, State Treasurer, Slate Auditor and Attorney General shall constitute a state board of equaliza- tion; and tiie board of county commissioners of each county shall consti- tute a county board of equalization. The duty of the state board of equalization shall be to adjust and equalize the valuation of the taxable property among the several counties of the state. The duty of the county boards of equalization shall be to adjust and equalize the valuation of the taxable property withm their respective counties. Each board shall also perform such other duties as may be prescribed by law." Tliere being no amendment to Section 16, the Clerk read Section 17 of the printed copy as renumbered. "Sec. 17. All property, except as in this section provided, shall be assessed in the county, city, town, township or school district in which it is situated, in the manner prescribed by law. The franchise, roadway, roadbed, rails and rolling stock of all railroads operated in more than one county in this state shall be assessed by the state board of equalization, and the same shall he apportioned to "the counties, cities, towns, town- ships and school districts in which such railroads are located, m propor- lion to the number of miles of railway laid in such counties, cities, to\\nis, townships and school districts." There being no amendment to Section 17. the Clerk read Section 18 of the printed copy as renumbered: "Sec. 18. The word property, as used in this article, is hereby de- clared to include moneys, credits, bonds, stocks, franchises and all matters and Ihings (real, personal and mixed capable of private ownership, but this shall not be construed so as to authorize the taxation of the stocks of any company or corporation when the property of such company or cor- poration, represented by such stocks, is within the state and has been taxed." There being no amendment to Section IS. the Clerk read Section 19 ol the printed copy as renumbered. "Sec. 19. The Legislatne Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry out the provisions of this article." .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: 1 move that proposition Nn. 27. General i'ile No. 26, with the exception of Section 4, be now placed upon its final passage. The motion was spcoiideil. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis tS: Clarke: If it is not too late I would like to offer an amendment to Section 9 or Section 10 as renumbered. The liinitalion upon the last amount mentioned is about one mill. Now, at such time as I he assessed valuation will be .^SOO.nno.OOii. the interests of the state will be much larger than they are now, and the limitation as placed here has placed the amount the same as it is at the present time. I move to make that one and oni'-lialf mills, instead of one mill. The motion was seconded. The President: The gentleman tnim Lewis \- Clarke offers to amend in line 6 of Section 10 as renumbered, by sinking out the word "one" and inserting in lieu tlieri'of "one and rme-half.' 518 PROCKEUINUS AND DEBATES .Mr. Hershliold. of Lewis & Clarke: Would it not be wiser if we •were to allow that to remain as it is. one mill, and if a eontingeney arises where the expenditures of the state will exceed the limitation, why. then let the Legislature provide for it, which they would have the power to do by the deficiency in the succeeding section. I think it is wise to all.iw this limitation to remain in the section. It is always liettei' to provide for limiting the opportunities of creating and enciiuraging indebtedness,' and if they have no sufficient funds and it may somelimes he necessary, why. the Legislature can liquidate it by a deficiency. .Mr. Chessman, of Lewis iV Clarke: the limitation up to that amount is very liberal. For inslaiice, tliere are *:L'lM,t,(M)U,tXMJ on which the limitation is two and one-half mills as providi{.'il m this section, but •3!3O0,0()O,(K)0 has a limitation of one mill. .Now, I maintain that one mill is sufficient. Of course, the Legislature does not have to assess the full amount. It is discretionary with them, and the limitation seems so small that it ought to be increased to a larger amount. 1 think it is a very small increase anyhow, and it is a little disproportionate as compared with the limitation of a lesser amount. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I have no doubt that if you levy ad valorum taxes to defray the expenses of the state that a one mill tax, when the property is valued at $300,000,000 will not be nearly enough to cover the expenses of the state; but if the section was to be amended to suit your view of the case I would reduce it to one-half a mill, in order to compel the State Legislature to collect the taxes in other directions; levy as small an ad valorum tax as possible, and collect as much as possible from license taxes; not on legitimate occupations, but on other business that are now in the state and that will hereafter come in the state. I think very large sums of money can be collected in that way, and so far as tlie power of the Legislature to collect ad valorum taxes is concerned, 1 would, speak- ing individually, rather reduce than increase it. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewi< & Clarke (Mr. Chessman > and the same was carried on a division by a vote of 38 in the affirmative to 13 in the negative. The President: The question now is upon the motion of the gentle- man from Silver Bow (Mr. Warren"i that Proposition No. 27, with the exception of Section 4, be placed upon its final passage. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I would rise to a point of order. I would like to ask hovs' we can proceed to place this bill on the final pass- age, and omit any part of it, that by vote of this house has been adopted. The President: As the Chair understands it, the motion wnp to place upon its final passage all of that portion of Proposition No. 27. except Section 4. The Chair is of opinion that the motion is in order, and that the convention may adopt everything they desire in the proposition, or reject it if they please, as the ca.se may be. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: That is not my point of onler. with all due respect to your decision, Mr. President. iMy point of order is that we have adopted Sections 4, 5, 6, etc., ami now they come up for final pass- age, on a motion to adopt all except a portion of it. My point of order Is. can a portion of that be adopted and the remainder ignored without reconsideration of the vote by which it was adopted. The President: The Chair underst;uiils that we have only adopted one or two sections so far. V\'e passed over part of it. Section 3 was adopted by a vote of the convention, but the Chair is uanware that any other section has been adopted except Section 3. Section 4 has also been adopted, but it has been ordered to be printed. The Chair will gi>t the "ense (d' the convention on this by putting the motion. The motion is to place Proposition .^io. 2?, with the exception of Section i, upon its final passage. The Chaii' llieii pul the said motion, and the same was declareil carried on division liy a \ote of 37 in the affirmative to 22 in the negalixe. The President: Proposition No. 27. with the exception of Section 4, will now be placed upon its final passage. The Clerk will call the rolt. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I would like the indulgence of the conven tion a moment to offer an amendment to Section 17 as it is now numberi>d. I lliink lliei'i> will he no objection to it. CONSllTUTIONAL CO.NVKN TIUN 1.S89 510 The Presiclont: The gentleman from Custer ilesires unanimous ron- sent to offer an amendment to Seetion 17 as it is now numbered. If there be no objection, the gentleman will be allowed to read his amendment. .Mr. .\liddleton. of Custer: In Section 16 of the printed copy, which I undeistand as Section 17 now, after the words "equalization" in line 4. I wish to insei't the ■wx)rds "n\ the manner prescribed by law." It seems that there is no provision as to what rate or in what manner the boord of equalization shall assess railroads and railroad property. The first part of the section provides that it shall be assessed in the manner prescribed by law, and I thmk that the same thing is true as to railroad property. The President: Is there any objection to the consideration of this amendment".' It requires unanimous consent. Mr. Marrion. of Missoula: I object. Mr. .Middleton. of Custer: I think there ought to be some provision by which that would be ingrafted. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President, is a motion in order? The President: No motion is in order except by unanimous consent. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I will ask unanimous consent to make a motion. I move the proposition be laid on the table. The President: The motion is not in order. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Warren^. The Clerk called the roll for the ayes and nays on the adoption of Proposition .No. 27, and the vote stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford. Browne. Buford, Burns. A. J.; Burns, E.; Callaway, Carpenter. Cauby. Chessman, Collins, Conrad. Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Dyer. Eaton, Field. Gaylord. Gibson, tioddard. Graves. Hammond, Hatch, Hershfieid. Hickman. Hogan, Joy. Kanouse, Kennedy, Knowles, Luce. Maginnis. Marrion, Marshall. Slayger. McAdow. Muth. Myers, Kamsdall, Reek, Rot.witt, Rickards. Sargent. Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. K.: Toole. J. R.; Warren. Whitehill. \\inston, \Mtter, Mr. Presi- dent— 54. Nays: Aiken, Burleigh. Burns. A. !•'.: Cardwell, Gillette, Hartman, Haskell. Hobson, Joyes. Eohrs. Loud, Middleton, .Mitchell. Parberry. Wat- son— 15. Absent: Brazleton. Breen. Bullard. Knippenberg. Robinson — 5. The President: The motion prevails and all of Proposition .No. 27, with the exception of Sec. 4. which has been deferred for further con- sideration, is adopted and becomes a part of the constitution of the State ol .Montana. It will be referred to the Committee on Enrollment. .Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: If in order, 1 move that we do now resolve ourselves into a Committee of the Whole for consideration of File -No, 16, Proposition No. 17, being the report of the Committee on Education. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. -Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: I wish to say that my reason for making this motion at this time is that I have a sick child lying at home, and may be summoned there at any moment, and 1 would like this matter to come up and be discussed in order that it may be disposed of in case I am compelled to ask for leave of absence. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Ueer Lodge: I move to amend by taking up the consideration of General File .Vo, 17, Proposition No. 18, Article on State institutions and Public Buildings. The President: The Chair entertained a motion similar to that a day or two since, but is of the opinion that it is not in order, for the reason that they are entirely separate and distinct propositions, and one cannot be considered in the nature of an amendment. The question now is upon the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Rickards). The Chair then put the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. 'I'he Chair called Mr. Kanouse of Meagher to the Chair. 520 PROCEEDINGS .\M> DEBATES IN COMiMITTEE OK THE WHOLE. .\lr. Kanouse, of Meagher, in the Chair. The committee waS called to order. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Sectmn 1 of PropositHui 17. The Clerk read as follows: '■.\rtiele on Education. Section I. II .shall be (he duty of the Legisla- tivf .Assembly of .Montana to establi.sli and mauitaui a general, uniform and llnu'ough system of public, free, common schools." Ihere being n(i amendment to Section I. the Clerk read Section 2. as follows: "Sec. 2. The public school fund of the state shall consist of the pro- ceeds of such lands as have heretofore been granted, or may hereafter be grant,ed to the state by the general governineut, known as school lands, and those granted in lieu of such; lands acquireil by gift or grant from any person or corporation under any law or grant of the general go\ - ernment; and of all other grants of land or money made to the state from the general go\ernment for general educational purposes, or where no other special purpose is indicated in such grant: all estates or distribu- tive shares of estates that may escheat to the state; all unclaimed shares and dividends of any corporation incorporated under the laws of the state, and all other grants, gifts, devises or bequests made to the state for gen- eral educational purposes." Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, Resolution No. 8. relating to school lands, was introduced by the gentleman from Gallatin, which is to be considered in connection with this proposition. I mo\e that it be Inserted or added to the last line of (his section, so that it will read as follows: "Provided that none of (lie lands granted by Congress to the s(a(e of Montana for the support of common schools, shall ever be sold or granted or disposed of in any manner except by lease, nor shall any moneys arising therefrom be used for any oilier i)urposes than for the supiiort of com- mon schools of the state." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Rickards, of Silver BoW: I would like to hear from the gentleman who moved the adoption of this resolution before time to advance any argument that might be advanced in favor of it is had. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: Mr. Chairman, I believe that it is for the best interest of the rising generation that this resolution as introduced by the gen- tleman from (iailatin should be adopted and inseiti'd as a part of this con- stitution. We have in the county of Missoula many valuable sections of school land, and there is one section to which 1 might particularly refer in the vicinity of the town of Missoula, a section of land which I believe today IS worth at the least calculation one hundred thousand dollars, and that section of land would provide more revenue if leased, that is, if let out as an addition to the town of Missoula, and the lots leased for building purposes, than what the entii'e revenue of the county of Missoula amounts to today with a four mill levy tax, to say nothing about other enormous sections throughout Ihe county. The>- are just as valuable for agricul- tural purposes, though not as well or centrally located for building pur poses: and in view of this section of land m tlie immediate vicinity of Missoula, instead of being worth one hnmlred lluiusand dullars. will be worth one million dollars, and without taking up any furltier time or presenting' any further arguments. I am willing to submil (his matter to the committee. Mr. Luce, of (iailatm: 1 offered that resolution, and will slatt> briefly my reasons for it llial in some of the stales nf fliis I'nion that Inne tlii> right to sell school binds they ha\e disposeil \er\- fri'ely of tlieir lands and found large accumulations of money on tlieir bands, and appointed, as I understand, conimillees known as Loan (>oiiiniittees, and those eoni- miltees. or commissions, rather, have frequently made loans in the state and have loaned on bad security, and the money has been lost forever. I undertake to say that no officer of any Government can get away witli real estate, and it is as good an investment as the public schools of Mon- tana can ever have. Now, you take some of these mountain lands, when they cannot be sold or have an appreciable value per acre perhaps, in tune tbey in:iy be leased foi' grazing purposes nml will bi'iiiL' about as CONSTITLTIONAL COiNVKNTIO.N 1889 521 much money yearly as they would brni^ per acre if put up lor public auction. Tliere are very few of the school lands today which if put up at auction would bring ten dollars an acre, but some of them will be choice lands that will be sought for by speculators and 1 think we can afford to hold those lands and take the money that will arise from leasing them in various manners, and apply that to the support of the sclmcds. instj^ad of selling these lands at low prices, and then in order to get your invest- ment perfectly secured lending your money out at a very low rate of interest. I think, considering the danger that always surrounds large sums of money in the vaults ot the state and other liability to be diverted or lost in soriie manner other than that for which they were intended to be appropriated — considering all these things. 1 think it is safer fur us to keep the lands forever and support our schools from the rexenue derived from leases. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: There is another consideration which enters nito this subject. Aow, I find that by looking at the Act of Congress that there have been given for the purpose of supporting public schools five million acres of land; for university. 46.000 acres; and for agricultural college, I iO.(X)0 acres: for school of mines. 100,000 acres; for state normal schools. 100.0(MI acres: reform school, 50,000 acres: deaf and dumb asylum. 50,000 acres: and for educatidiial purposes other enormous amounts of lands. -Now. so far as the danger of leasing the land Is concerned, there is no question, but if these lands remain where they are there is no danger of their being stolen. It requires a little water brought in con- tact with the land in order to make them valuable even for mining pur- poses. -Now. the consideration which 1 wish to impress upon the con- vention IS this, that if these lands are not disposed of, they are not sub.ject to taxation, and hiTe are five millions and a half of acres of land that are to be withdra^ii from taxation, and the state is to get no benefit from that; whereas, if they are sold at the price named in the Act of Congress donating them, those lands will become subject to taxation, so far as they are sold, and it will add to the revenue of the state. If they are not sold there will be no such revenue derived from them, and we have to rely upon other methods of taxation. There will be trouble in providing for a safe-keeping of this money. There is no danger of its being stolen and carried off with anything like wisdom in the investment of it. I will venture to say if it is turned over to the state of Montana, if the state of .Montana receives it and becomes responsible for it that it will not be stolen. I do not blame my friend from Gallatin County for being suspi- cious of men. because there has been a great deal of public money stolen, but that is where it was not so well guarded as it should be; and with his assistance, and the assistance of some others here to guide and direct. I have no doubt that all we will have to pray for will be for strength to carry the thing into effect. Hence. I say I think it is unwise to incor- porate into this constitution a provision which will prevent the distribu- tion of these lands and the placing them in the hands of private parties where they can become tfte subject of taxation. Now, I desire to call the attention of the members of this convention to this consideration, which it seems to me is a very important one. a practical one, and one that involves a very great deal of interest to the state at large. T will not consume the time of the convention in adding anything more than calling the attention of the convention to the views which T have expressed here. .Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I desire to offer a substitute f(ir the resolution. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: Vour committee predicted and it fully expected a controversy on this question. The arlvisability of adojjting this resohition. though it had not been referred to this Committee but referred to another committee, was duly considered, and 1 wish that T could have prevailed upon .Major Maginnis to take my place in this committee on the floor of this house and pri'sent connectedly the arguments tliat wc went over thoroughly in considering this question. I want to call your atten- tion before mentioning any other facts to Section 12 of this proposition. "The funds of the State University and of all the other State institutions of learning, from what ever source accruing shall forevei- remain invi- olate and sacred to the purpose for which they were dedicated. The var- ious funds shall be respectively invested under such regulations as may lie prescribed by law. and shall be guaranteed by the State against loss or diversion." .Now Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of this connniltee. I want f,22 J'ROt.KEDlNUy AM) UKBATES lo sa,\' liii- suinc ijl llic iiicinlicrs; of tln' i;omiiiillc(' uu EiJuciil ion. and lor iiiysi'ir. tliat 1 went into tlH' conHnittee i-ooui. il 1 liad any li-anniys, leaning towards tliu idea of leasuig and not sidling any of our SLdiool lands; but the morp \vc wunt into tins subject tlie more inif)raetieable did it seem. We invited into our committee room the known ehampions and recognized (diamiJions of this theory of leasing [jublic school lands, and after hear- ing all of the arguments that they had to advance, your committee came to the conclusion that the ouly safe and practicable method by wliieti this question c(juld be settled would be to leave it in the hands of the Leg- islature, where your committee have recommended it. .Now, as has been said by Judge Luce, under Ihi^ Enabling Act none of these school lands can be sold for less than -$10 an acre. The Enabling Act also provides that none of these school lands can be leased for a longer period than five years, and no larger quantity than one section to one person or corporation" shall be leased, so that 1 think you all must see at a glance thai the idea id' leasing is an impracticable one. iNo unprovements could be made of the lands: no one would take them on any such leasi'. Some of the friends of this measure said, let us trust lo the magnanunity of Congress to ref)eal this law and give to us a longer lease, but we considered that we were trusting a very uncertain quantity if we leave this measure for repeal in the hands of Congress. We have nothing to do with what Congress may do. All that we have to do in considering this question is to consider what we may do with the restrictions thrown around it by this Enabling Act. Aow Mr. Chairman, I want this Committee, and 1 beliexe I hat they will too, to duly consider one feature of the leasing system, which was dwelt upon and emphasized in the committee room, and that is this, that we enter upon, if we adopt that system, an untried e.vperlment. I have heard il asserted tlial some of the states have tried il. but no one member of this committee has been able to put his hands upon a document that would verify that statement. Now, if we enter upon Ihi^ leasing system, we enter upon, as has already been said uijoii this floor when we were considering another matter, a species of landlordism that is fraught with danger to the commonwealth. In the absence of a system of irrigation, 1 would like anyone to point out intiMligibly how a system of leasing can be adopted by this state. ISow in view of these facts presented to you in tliis dissilatory manner. 1 submit to you that in the adoption of this resolu- tion that has been presented as an amendment you will be tying the hands of the legislature so that if at any time in the future you find that a tract of land can be sold for the minimum price or more, you have tied their hands so that they cannot do il. And 1 would also ask you to con- sider how we are to obtain a fund for ijresenf needs if we are not to sell this land as the legislature will prescribe. Now 1 believe, and I predict thai after all the argument has been or will be advanced in favor of the adoption of this resolution, or one of like character, that the sober wisdom of this committee and this convention will be that we are to leave it in the hands of the legislature where it properly belongs, so that they may do with it as their judgment shall dictate. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: Before this gentleman sits down 1 \\-mild like to a.sk him a question. This resolution that the gentleman from (ial- latin makes provision that none of the lands for the suiiijorl of common si'liools can ever bo sold. I would like to ask the gentleman bow I hi' com- mon schools of Montana are support(>d now. Wouldn't wi" be on Ihe same footing as we are now? Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: Uh. well, we all understand how the common schools are now. but as a gentleman has said, Mr. Chairman, tins generation does not want to assume the obligations of coming gener- atjoiis. Th(^ (;hairmaii: The gentleman from Missoula, Mr. Bickford. offi>rs the folowing as an amendment to the amendment of Mr. Kennedy. "Re- solved that the lands granted by Congress to the state of Montana for I tie support of common schools, and for unix'ersal iiiirposes, may be sold or leased in ttie manner and at such time as may be prescribi^d by law, pro- vided that none (d' such lands shall be sold for less than ten dollars an acre. " Mr. BickffH'd of Missoula: t move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Ml'. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I would call the atlention of llie geii- ticiiKiii to the fact that that is what this bill prescribes. COiN'STITU'l lONAL CONVENTION 18«9 523 Mr. KH-klnrd of .Missoula: I siiiiply pul [hr aiiKMidiiiciit so that the matter might properly come before the convention. .Mr. J'arlierry of .Meagher: I am opposed to offemig any of these lauds for sale and briefly will give you my reasons. The gentleman remarks that he wants to know how we could get along if we did uul sell the land. 1 can very easily figure out how we can get a great deal more money by not selling than we can by selling. In the first place the land was given to this state with certain restrictions. One is that they shall not bi- leased longer than a term of five years: another is that ttiHy shall not be sold for less than ten dollar.-;. Now. "leai'ly all the school lands in the stale of -Montana can be leased for something, and it is very easy for the leg- islature to make it the duty of the treasurer of each county to offer to the highest bidder the two sections in each county, the sixteenth and thirty sixth sections, giving bond of security for the payment of his an- nual wealth, and pay it to the treasurer as he pays his tax. Then we have no expense except the little expense of the treasurer's collecting the rent, and he is required to turn it over to the territorial treasurer. Now. here are all those sections that can be leased for twenty five dollars, fifty dollars, one hundred dollars, or two hundred dollars, that cannot be sold under the provisions of this Enabling Act. which would be a source of revenue. Another thing is. if the land could be sold, mimey is now worth 15. 18 and 20 per cent per annum. The money could be turned arouncj and put out at six or seven per cent under restrictions here, and if offered for sale there are only a few sections that could be sold for fen dollars and more. .Now I have maintained that it would be much better to restrict the sale of the land to sections. 1 know somrthing about this matter, be- tause 1 have had some experience with it in my section of the country. .\ll through this grazing section in the eastern portion of the country most ol the water has bei-n appropriated, but through these sections in certain places there are springs and small streams of water and if you sell forty or fifty acres to any person, or lease it. that will cover all the water and limber, so that the balance of the section is not worth anything to any- body. But it can be leased by sections, and the revenue coming in every year turned over by the county treasurer to the territorial treasurer, so that you can handle it. .Now you cannot sell a section of land and take the money and use it: you must put it out. and can only use the interest that comes from that section of land. You can least- it for more money than you can get interest on the money if it is sold. -Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: 1 have heretofore taken up so little of the time of this convention that 1 have no hesitancy now in asking your indulgence for a few moments on this proposition. The law implies lliat one eighteenth part of the area of the territory shall be dmoten to the common school, namely, sections Iti and 3(3 in each to-wniship at the time of our admission as a state, provided at that date those sections have not been previously sold or disposed of. and if they had been sold or dispost'd of other sections are to be selected in lieii thereof under the laws and regulations piM'scribed by the legislature. This, together with five per cent of the net proceeds from sales of lands made sub- sequent to the dale of our admission as a state constitute the dowry of the common schools. The number of acres thus given to the common school, and also to the various educational institutions of the state have been correctly given. The common school land expressed in acres would b:- 5,120.000; State University 72 Sections. iUMO acres: School of Mines lOCl.OOO acres: State Normal School 100.000 acres: State Reform School 50,tKXl acres: Ueef & Dumb Asylum 50.000 acres; and .Vgricultural College 1 lO.OOO acres. Now what is the condition and character of these lands — and I take it that this convention, or any department of government which it institutes must at leost approximate a definite idea of their character and condition before it can intelllaently commit the stale for years tn any definite and unvarying systems for their management. The committee on Education in one of the conventions in the Dakotas saw fit to hire a hall and to hear thf arsruments of all those who wished to be heard on the ques- tion of leasing their school lands, or of selling them: And if they had any difficulty there at all. where it was already known that the school lands as a rule were all perfectly level lands, accessible from all the points of the compass, and watered by the reservoirs in the clouds — if they had an>- oifficulty there at all. you may have some idea of the perplexities which confront you here in a country whose topography is as variable as our.s 524 PR()C*KKI)IN'(iS A.NIi DKliAIKS IS, wlirrt' llic mails IoIijw llir iiiuuiitaiiis, ami llir incuiulcriiifis ol' water coui'scs insleail ol' the artificial section lines of the sui'veyor. and whore the fall of the Uuid is so iniperceptihly connected with the matter of water i-ij,'-|it. The few weeks to which oui' conference is necessarily lini- ili'd and tlie means at hand wdl forhid tlie accumulation of the statistics and facts whicli wovdd be so desirable at tliis Lime, and it remanis for fuluri' legislation to provide that all of these lands be selected and mapijed out, and that the official report be followed as to every subdivi- sion tlier-e(d, stiowiny their condition and character, accessibility to roads and water courses, and all the facts entering into their conditions and the \ alley. As it is known that the land granted to the various educational insti- tutions have bcH'n selected except the university lands. These 72 sections were selected a lew years ago froni the best lands of the state, whicli were then unappropriateil. The selected list vras recently approved b\ President tlarnson and now aijpears on the official file in "the Governor's office below; and as to the public school lands it is impossible to tell very much about many of them from the fact that only about 25 per cent of the territory has been surveyed. One of the most experienced civil engineers in the city informs me, at a rough estimate, that that amount lias been surveyed and that it did not include the mountains, except as the mountains had been surveyed at the instance of some one in getting mineral patents on mineral locations. Aow with reference to leasing the lands 1 will state tliat wtien my labors first commenced on this committee 1 was 111 favor of the leasing system, exclusively, but the more and more consideration we gave it the more and more the plans si'cmed infatig- able as an exclusive one. And whence rose the leasing system? In this country above all others, the general sentiment is against landlordism, and tlie general government in' the distribution of its land has sought to give out, ill small tracts to the actual settlers. The idea had its origin not in the fact that landlordism has any desirable features, but fioni the fact that most of the states had disposed of their school lands 111 a vei'v injudicious manner. The state of Iowa sold tier lands at a very small figure. T'he state of Texas I am informed sold lands for less than even one dollar and a quarter per acre, their being no limit on the price, that state not having derived its lands from the government, and so general has been its mismanagement, that when Congress came to pass this Enabling Act it threw a safe guard around the school lands of the state of .Montana when it provided that no lands should be sold for less than ten dollars an acre, and that they might be leased for i.ieriods of not more than five years; and as Congress did not confine the state to one system or the other, this convention ought not to confine the matter te one system or the other. As has been frequiMitly mentioned the value of land in this country amounts to nothing unless you can get water on it. Will the state build bridges, and make appropriations for the water for its land? It is known that no species of properly requires sucli constant supervision and control as th(! water rates. In many pai'ts of the country I have noticed that it takes about tw^o men and a shotgun to each fiitch. and it is known among lawyers everywhere that no water right IS worih an.\lhmg until it has been christened by at least one law siiil. 1 1 we go inio the water right business, it will he necessary for us In iia\ lor llie rigid (d way over thi' [irivate land of owners lo maintain these ititclies, whenever they are infringed upon. 'J'his would open up a field for .jobbery, the evils of which in my opinion would lie worse than all th(> I'vils of laiullordism or raidv rent. On the other hand, lei the tenant make Ihe first api)roi)riatioii id water: when you come lo lease again, all the walers of the creek will be appropriated. Nobody wants this school (raci unless they can gel llie water right with it. I'lie first IcnanI reliisi>s to sell his'water right for love or money. The consequence is that when you come to lease the land a second time, in your endeinor to preserve this land for posterity you have practically gneii 11 awa\ lo the man who is fortunate enough to get the fii'sl water right, .\gain It is a principle that Ihe landlord rents a house or a tract of land, he implieillv gives a right away of the ingress and egre.ss, and .so il would be necessary for us to go iiit,o the road business and way for roads over the pi'ivate "lands of others. If we do not then Ihe tenant ijains and that llir expiration he not only owns the water right but Ihe (irixate way as well. Then in reference to the collection of rents. II is slated on all sides llial the long term is Ihe only practicable one. The rmls then CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 525 (•aniiot be collected in advance: they must be paid yearly. Upon what shall they be a lieu? Not upon the lands, lor they belong to the state: not upon the lease hold of the tenant m the land to any practicable pur- pose, lor without the water right this, in many cases, would sell I'or much less than the reni due. Suppose he has atiy property; suppose he sublets or assigns his lease and leaves the country. I shall hesitate long, Air. President, belo.re my voice shall promulgate the doctrine that this stale must derive its only beiielits from these school lands to the leasing ot the school lands exclusively. It means landlordism, it means tenantry, it means notice to evict, it means eviction for nonpayment of rent, it means that the officers of the law shall lia\e heaped upon them the odium that was formally heaped upon the Jewish tax gatherers. Now, 1 camiiit indulge in the hope which seems to come to some with so much assurance, that Congress will readily enlarge the time for wliich we may lease. Perhaps it will, perhaps it will not. The constitution is no field for experimi'nts and I give it as my opinion for all it is worth that it is poor statesmanship for us to insert a clause in the constitution and commit the state for all years to come to a policy whose practicability IS conceded e\en by its warmest supporters to depend upon a hope which l^ born of a desire for certain action on the iiart of the national congress 111 the future. It seems to me that the best way is to leave this as the committee returned it — leave the matter with the Legislaure. Few of these lands will now sell for ten dollars an acre. Many of them will not sell for that for years. Some of them will never sell for it. Let it accom- modate the laws to the condition and emergencies as they arise, let it lease the lands which it can not sell and if the system proves burdensome or impracticable it can abandon it. It seems to me that the common people can well be trusted with this matter. No sentiment is dearm- in the hearts of the American people than the education of their children, and the establishment of an educational system, whose, streams of knowl- edge will flow out among the people for generations yet unborn, tran- scending in value the streams crossing these first fields, or the gold in your mines. The fact that noiu' of these lands can be sold for less than ten dollars an acre, and the further proviso that if leased they may not bi' leased for more than five years, is sufficient guarantee for the future. If all the lands should be sold this would mean a perpetual endowment of fifty million uollars, which put out at four per cent per annum would be a yearly income to be distributed among the schools of two millions of dollars: and the thought Is not unworthy in my judgment that we owe as much to the present as we do to the future. It is enough for the pioneers to suffer the deep privations of pioneer life without continuing to support the schools by a direct tax. when they have at least the oppor- tunity to appropriate a part of that from the national bounty. It is the' school houses and school grounds that cost. It is this university building and the buildings for the various state instilutions, with their eciuipments and furnishings that cost: and the people of the future, without deriving a bit of benefit from the school lands will not pay as high a tax as me people now are paying, have been paying, and will pay for years to come. In my .judgment we should try no experiment in the constitution. Wn should hold fast to that which we do know. We should be willing to back llie common people in this respect and rest assured that they, meeting the conditions and emergencies as they arise, will guard their school interests, sacred as they are to them, much more sacredly than this convention can do it for tliem, and a great deal more wisely. (Applause) -Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: I feel deeply interested in this question, lu the county which 1 represent there are something like twenty sections of school lands, and 1 will here say that I am not committed to either system. There are some arguments that can be advanced on both sides. and an argument of the leasing system which holds out in the future a grand system of building up an almost unlimited fund for the mainten- ance of common schools and universities I acknowledge is the la^dul one; but at the same time it seems to me that it is fraught with some uncer- tainties and some dangers. On the other hand. I believe that, as the gen- tleman who preceded me has just remarked, that they hold a duty to the present generation as well as to the future, and if we take into consid- eration the fact that it has been the policy of this government to develop this country by land grants producing railroads and other streams that had developed the country, I believe we will ailmit at once that the duty 52(5 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES we owe the present geueratimi is an apparent ouv. Tlie seetum of country which I represent is not very large. Nearly all ol the valuable land is taken. There are some lourteen sections of university land in one body. It is the finest land within the limits of the Flathead country. The country, as 1 say, bein^ small and ha\iiig but little capital, the great struggle of the day is to maintain all the settlers of that section in busi- ness with no market. Now, if this country was settled up as quickly as possible It would add an additional incenti\e for a railroad or for the expenditure of capital and would really aid the settlers more, who occupy the country, in securing a market lor their products, and it would really redound to the interest of all the people of that country. Now, I say that 1 am not committed to either system. If the leasing system can secure an immediate settlement, or a settlement in the near future, of these lands without any serious objections, i am in favor of it; but I do pretend to say — (interrupted). Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: 1 would like to ask the gentleman lor information, what is his opinion of the practicability of settling up those lands by the leasing system? Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: I was just going to remark that it was impracticable on a five-year leasing system. There is no man. in my judgment, that would be willing to take this land, fence it, improve it and dig wells and make other necessary improvements for a five-year lease. It is not long enough to warrant the necessary outlay. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I desire to answer the question. If llie method of improvements be simply a matter of contract, and moreover, with a five-year's lease as a matter of contract, would it not be putting each lease on a par? Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: Those questions, I do not think, can be answered until the final action of the committee in this matter. .Now, I believe that there are arguments to be advanced on either side, but I would like to see this convention deliberate in the matter. I do not think there is any question that has come up before this convention that is in such an unsettled state as this, and that there has been so little experi- ence with, and I hope that the action, whatever it is, will be cool and deliberate, and that the results in future years will bear us out in our action. It has been stated by the gentleman that just preceded me that there is some odious aspect of landlordism, and I believe that every American or every man that is identified with the interests of American institutions within these halls, have verified that statement. It carries in Its connection the idea of eviction, of forcible collectons, and I say that if we must build up an institution of landlordism that in the future years will overshadow all others, and that may boast of its hundreds of millions of dollars in the treasury at the expense of a tenancy, established throughout this country that is poor and needy and that will often be evicted from their homes and be made the creatures and subject to rack rent, I say that this interest had better be limited and never reach its proper state of improvement than to reach it at the expense of a tenantry and citizens of this country. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: There is a single suggestion that has not been made, and that is that this school land in this Territory is good for nothing in the world but the timber that is on it; that it cannot lie leased unless you give the lessee the right to cut off the tinibei'; and it would be worth nothing when the timber was cut off. It would sell now though with the timber on it for a very good price. 1 know a quarter section of land that is well timbered that is worth, or said to be, $2') or $30 or $40 per acre, but for leasing it is worth nothing. So, if we say no land shall be sold, it seems to me it would not do. The lands ought to be classified. Some lands ought to be sold now, other lands ought to be retained; some lands ought to be leased, for they cannot be sold for any other purpose than for grazing purposes; and it does seem to me that the proper mode is in leaving it to the Legislature for a while, and let them sell what ought to be sold, and lease what ought to be leased, and retain what it is nec^essary to retain. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, the Chaii'iiian ol Ihe committee re(iuiests me as one of its members to dwell upon a fi'w facts that were omitted. As my predecessor in the argument has said. I went into the commitlee freely disposed towards this leasing' system. although from the first Ihe idea of establishing n landlord anil Icnnnl CONSTITUi lONAL CONVENTION 1889 527 syslein was somewluit ri'pugiiant to my opinion; but as we went on step by step, we saw lurtlier and greater objections to it. We considered it in almost every possible light. First, we considered it from the standpoint of a purely leasing system; then we considered it as a system of selling hall the land and leasing the other half; then of selling only a portion of the lands and forever retaining the rest. And, after fully discussing It 111 nearly all its aspects, and listening to arguments presented by the people generally from outside, some of them the ablest advocates of the leasing system, all of the cominitlee. with the exception of one gentleman, whose opinions indeed are oH very great weight, concurred in the report Ihat we had better leave this whole matter to tlie Legislature. With the limitation of ten dollars an acre placed upon it by Congress, it operates as a considerable limitation. If all those lands could be sold, and none, I think, could be sold for less than that — if we could sell all those lauds for tliot price tomorrow, we could put into the treasury of the state .'i>54,8(J0,80O, on winch the interest at four per cent would be .'p2,19-4,43i!. The tax that the state would derive from such land at that price would amount at two mills on the dollar m each year to $109,721. Now, all these things want to be taken into consideration. \ery likely some of those lands, not many of them perhaps, can be sold for ten dollars an acre; others cannot. Then we wonder if we should not provide that exceptional sections such as those mentioned by the gentle- man from Missoula m the beginning of the debate where lands were near towns, and there they could be divided into lots and ground rents collected for them, should not be excepted in this constitution from the general proposition. But the more we thought of it. the more we came to the conclusion that the restriction made by the government was at least large enough' to prevent the waster of the lands, and that we had better leave the whole subject to the Legislature and the people of Mon- tana to deal with in the future as they saw fit. Now, the gentleman asks, why shoulil we not keep all those lands and all the revenues for posterity and why should we not maintain the |.iublic schools as we do now, by taxation upon ourselves. 1 think my friend, the Chairman of the com- mittee, made that argument in saying that the burden of education added to all the other burdens of a new community — the openings of roads, the building of bridges, the erection of school houses, and all that kind of thing, comes pretty hard upon the first settlers, and upon their imme- diate successors, and we did all this for the benefit to future generations who ought to share somewhat in the burdens. Now, the first people of the Territory came from other states, and are generally educated, and what might be called the dark period of a state comes generally in the first or second generation — and if I had time I could dwell upon that to show the committee the reason why I have come to that conclusion — but you are familiar with the western states and know them. The bright men from all these states were the men who first went to new countries and to a new stale. After that comes a sort of a period of Sinierian gloom, as it were, and alter that again, as the state grows in wealth and endows educational institutions, it proceeds to take rank in the front lines of enlightened communities. !>o that the hard period could bridge over the period generally succeeding the admission of a new state. That is the period that wants to be provided for: that is the period wlien a liltle money to build schoolhouses and to educate the people is worth more than at any other time; and while I have the very kindest regard for posterity, I would be very unwilling that this generation and the succeeding generation would fake all these burdens upon itself and not see that they are equally distributed. Consequently, the committee hav- ing viewed this from almost every possible point of view, came to the conclusion that the wisest thing we could do would be to leave it to the Legislature of the state, only in the constitution provided that the funds should be so invested that the funds themselves and the interest should always be guaranteed by the state, and never could be diverted or wasted or put away. I would be very glad indeed to hear from other gentlemen of the committee. Mr. Bicklord. of Missoula: I desire to withdraw the amendment that I offered, as I see now the report of the committee fully covers the ground of the substitute which I offered to resolution No. 8. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I would like to ask a ouestion of the gentleman from .\lissoula in regard to timber land. We will sav here is a 528 PHOCKEDINUS AND DEBATES Sixteenth section nl Uiiibur land and ailniit il vvditld bnn^ ■'>iO. ur $iiO, thougli there arc (.•cuiiparalively few of these sections tliat you can sell for $10. Now, all this is worth is what you can get out of the tiiiiber. If you lease it to the highest bidder and give hnn five years, he certainly has a riglit to have everything on it, as he would pay as much for the lease as he wt)uld if he bought it; and 1 cannot understand to sav(! my life how we are to get a direct advantage when we can only use interest here. Now, we know that the people in this Territory are paying ten, twelve and fifteen per cent for money, and to s(?ll, as you can see, and put it out at four or five per cent per annum and only use tiie four or five per cent is something that I cannot understand. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis A Clarke: We do not provide that we shall sell or that we shall lease. We leave that to the people. Mr. Clark, of .Silver Bow: I am not going to make a spe(!ch on this subject, 1 simply want to make a few observations. I have no doubt the gentlemen who composed the Committee on Education have given this subject lull thought, and they are gentlemen who are amply capable and qualified to do this, and 1 believe that they have arrived at the best conclusion that it is possible to arrive at, concerning this very imiiortant question. There are many difficulties in the way of leasing property that have been pointed out by these gentlemen who ha\e preceded me. The difficulty of getting W'ater upon the lands of this country is one ol the greatest, and I believe that/ it will be a very difficult matter to induce any tenant to go upon these lands and improve them for the tenure of five years. 1 do not believe that you will get men to undertake to do that, and hence 1 believe that the time is too short. If it hail liceii extended lo twenty years or over it might be that this proposition might be considered the most advisable. I5ut with the short lease to which we are restricted by the Organic Act creating this state, 1 do not believe the system of leasing is practicable, and upon general principles I am opposed to the system of leasing. So far as the future character oi our citizens is concerned, we owe something to the state in securing a character of citizens that will be permanent and will be freeholders, men who own their property, and as I understand there are about five million of acres of land here, one-half of which is, I believe, susceptible to culti- vation and settlement. Now, instead of building up a system of landlord- ism, as some of the gentlemen have said here, and getting the system of tenantry in this country, men who have no permanent abodes — the birds of passage, we might say. that are led to abandon this land at any time — 1 believe that it is an injudicious system. I believe in extending such inducements to men as will anchor them down and make them good and permanent citizens of Montana. Wo owe a great deal, as the gentleman has said, to the present generation. There are men and women in this Territory who were born here, who had advantages in the way of educa- tion, and they contributed largely towards opening up and building this country, and we believe are now raising children. 1 believe in granting to the present generation some advantages, and I believe in getting out of this system some advantages for the people who live today and the ciiildren that are now born, hence, 1 believe that the conclusion that has been arrived at by this intelligent committee is correct and I will support the report of the committee. The Chairman: The question is upon llic ado[itiiin nf i-esnlution number 8 as part of Section 2 of Proposition No. 17. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the said resolution No. 8 and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. TIkv Chairman: The Clerk will read Section ,3 of the propnsilion. The Clerk read Section 3 as follows: "Sec. 3. Such public school funds shall forever remain inviolate, guaranteed by the state against loss or division, to be invested, so far as possible, in public securities within the state, including school district bonds, issued for the erection of school buildings, under the restrictions to be provided by law." There being no amendments to Sec. :i, the Clerk read Sec. 'i, as follows: Sec. 'i. The Governor, Superintendent of Public Instruct inn. Secre- tary of State, .Attorney General shall constitute the Stall' Board id' Land Commissioners which shall have the diri-ction. control, leasing and sab' id' the school lands of the slate and llie lands granted nr which may CO.NSTITUTIONAI. CONVENTION 1889 523 hereafter be granted lor the support and benefit of tlie various state edueational mstitutions, under such regulations and restrictions as may be prescribed by law." Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke moves to amend as follows: Add to Sec. 4: "Provided that whatever disposition is made of such land preference sliall be given to residents thereon who, prior to July ■i. A. 1). 1889. ill good faith enfrred upon and made valuable improvements upon the same. " The motion was seconded. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects have a subject in their report that covers that. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: If the gentleman is correct. I will withdraw my motion. -Mr. Middleton. of Custer: In the first line before the words "Wttorney General," 1 think the word ""and should be inserted. The Chairman: If there be no objection, the Clerk will be instructed to insert in the presence of the committ.ee the word "and". The Clerk will read Sec. b of the proposition. rhe Clerk read Sec. 5. as follows: , "Sec. 5. The interest on all invested school funds of the state, and all r^ents accruing from the leasing of any school lands, shall be appor- tioned to the several school districts of the state, in proportion to the number of children and youths between the ages of six and twenty-one years, but no district shall be entitled to such distributive share that does not maintain a public free school for at least thi-ee months during the year for which distribution shall be made." "I'here being no amendments to Sec. .5, the Clerk read Sec, 6, as follows: "Sec. 6. It shall be the duty of the Legislative Assembly to provide by taxation or otherwise, sufficient means, in connection with the amount received from the general school fund, to maintain a public, free, common school in each organized district in the state, lor at least three months in each year." There being no amendments to Sec. 0, the Clerk read Sec. 7. as follows: "Sec. 7. The public free schools of the state shall be opened to all children and youtns between the age of six and twenty-one years."" There being no amendments to Sec. 7, the Clerk read Sec. 8, as follows: "Sec. 8. Neither the Legislative Assembly nor any county, city, town or school district, or other public corporations, shall ever make, directly 01 indirectly, any appropriation, or pay from any public fund or money whatever, or make any grant of lands or other property, in aid of any church, or for any sectarian purpose, or to aid in the support of any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary, scientific institution, controlled in whole or in part by any church, sect or de- nomination whatever. "" There being no amendment to Sec. 8. the Clerk read Sec. 9, as follows: "Sec. 9. No religious or partisan test or qualification shall ever be required of any person as a condition of admission into any public educa- tional institution of the state, either as teacher or student: nor shall attendance be required at any religious service whatever, nor shall any sectarian li-nets be taught in any public educational institution of the state: nor shall any person be debarred admission to any of the collegiate departments of the university on account of sex."" There being no amendment to Sec. 9, the Clerk read Sec. 10. as follows: '"Sec. 10. The Legislature shall provide that all elections for school officers shall be separate from thope elections at which other state or county officers are voted for. "" Mr. ,)oy. of Park: I move to strike out that section. I do not see that it means anything. Mr. .Maglnnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I was opposed to the section in committee and on time: but it means this, that the school elections shall be separate from the general elections. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: I hope this motion will not prevail. As Major Maginnis has just said at first he was opposed to this section, but after duly considering all the arguments in favor of and against it, it was the unanimous judgment of the committee to recommend the adoption of that section. Now, I do not believe that there is anyone here 530 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES but certainly has seen and now feels tlie importance of removing as far a? possible the election of school officers from that of a general election; and that is the object of this section. We not only believe it is wise, but we believe it is necessary to place in the Organic Act, or rather our con- stitution, that the Legislature shall provide for separate elections for school officers, believing as we do that the election of school officers should not take place at the time of the election of municipal officers and county officers. I cannot see any reason for the motion of the gentleman for striking out that section, and I can see every reason for retaining it as a part of this proposition. Mr. Joy, of Park: Whatever might have been the unanimous opinion of that committee if that still remains that that provides that the election of all school officers, whoever they may be, must be separate from I hi' general election. Now, the gentleman who has just taken his seat argued hero on the floor the other day that that was one of the offices that a lady might fill — (Interrupted). Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis it Clarke: Will it meet the objection of the gentleman if the words "school district oflicers" are inserted in there? -Mr. Joy, of Park: That will be acceptable. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I move the section be amended by inserting the word "district." The Chairman: The gentleman from Gallatin. Mr. Luce, moves to amend as follows: Amend Section 10 by inserting the word "district" after the word "for" in line 1. The motion was seconded. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & (Clarke: Would not "school district" be better than "district school"? Mr. Joy, of Park: Mr. Chairman, that amendment having been pre- sented and seconded, I will withdraw my motion to strike out the section. The Chairman: If there be no objection the gentleman from Park will be allowed to withdraw his motion to strike out the sec- tion. The question will be upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin, .Mr. Luce, to insert the words "school district officers" in lieu of the words "school officers" where they occur 111 the section. Mr. Hammond, of Jefferson: It will be necessary then to strike out the word "other" before the word "state". 1 move to amend by striking that out. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I will accept the amendment to strike out the word "other." The Chairman: i'lie amendment having been accepted, the question will be upon the adoplion of thi' section as amendeil by the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin. The Chair put the question upon the adoption of the said section as amended, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. There being no furthef amendments to Section 10. Ihc Clerk read Section 11, as follows: "Sec. 11. The geiuu'al coiilrol and .■supervision of Ihe slale uiiivci'sity and the various other state educational institutions shall he \ested in a Stale Hoard of Education, whose powers and duties shall be prescribed and regulated by law. The said board shall consist of eleven niemb(>rs. the Governor, State Superintendent of Public Instruction and .Attorney Cieneral being members ex-officio, tlii> other eight members thereof shall be appointed by the Governor subject to the confirmation of the Senati'. under the regulations and restrictions to be provided by law." There being no amendment to Section II, Ihe Clerk read Seclion I-', as follows: "Sec. i2. The funds ol (be slate university and of all the oIIht state mslltutions of learning, from whatever source accruing shall forever remain inviolate and sacred to the purpose for which they were dedicated. The various funds shall be respc^ctively invested under such regulations as mav be prescribed by law and shall b(> guarantecvl hy the state against loss or divergence. The interest of said investi'd funds. |oi;ether with the rents from leased lands or properties shall he devoted to Ihe inninlenance and piM'pet-uation of these respective institutions." Mr. J. K. 'I'oole of Lewis ^^ Clarke: I would just like to inquire of the Chairman of Ihe committee whether the change in the present age of the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 531 school cliildri-n was made intentionally from lour to six years. It is Icur under ttie existing law. and now it is six to twenty-one. Mr. Magmnis. of Lewis & Clarlie: \es. ttie committee changed the law. We concluded that six years was the proper age. -Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I just made the suggestion, as something was said the other day about a ls.indergarteii system. Mr. Hickards, of Silver Bow: I move that when the committee rises they report Proposition No. 17 hack with the recommendation that with these slight amendments they do pass. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Rickards and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I move the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow ,Mr. Rickards and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. IN CONVENTION. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. Kanouse, of Meaglier: Mr. President, your Committee of the \\ hole have had under consideration Proposition No. 17. have made certain amendments which are incorporated in the printed copy which I hold in my hand, and with such amendments they have directed me to report the same back to the convention with the recommendation that it do pass. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports that he has been instructed to report back Proposition Number 17 with the amendments and a recommendation that it so pass. Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge: I move that the convention take under consideration Proposition No. 17, General File No. 16, on its final passage. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentlemna from Deer Lodge uMr. Reek, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, I move that the rules be suspended, that the proposition be read as a whole, and the ayes and nays be called. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collms. of Cascade: .Mr. President, before that motion is put, I would like to ask if it is the sense of the convention that Section .\o. 11 should pass without amendment. That Section 11 provides for a Board of Education consisting of 11 members, and it seems to me that it should be reduced to about 7; about five would be appointed ones, and the Governor and the Superintendent of Public Instruction would comprise the other two. Seven, it seems to me, would be plenty. The President: The Chair would inquire from the gentleman from Lewis & ICarke if it was contemplated by his resolution to put this upon its final passage without receiving any further amendments? .Mr. .1. K. Toole, of Lews & Clarke. \es. Act upon. the amendments as reported by the Committee of the \\"hole only. Mr. .Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: In answer to the gentleman from Cascade, the reason that we fixed the number at this number was that ordinarily they make regents of the state university generally to consist of twelve or nine. Now. we held that the educational interests of the >tate would be subserved, and that the university and the different schools would run better, each in its own orbit, if they were to be under one single management, and consequently instead of having these various boards, we decided to have this one board to consist of eleven members which I do not think it too many, because two would be elected one year, two another, and two the sixth year, being eight members, and then the three members who are ex-officio in all would constitute the board. The President: The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke that the rules be suspended and that the considera- tion of the amendments offered by the Committee of the Whole be taken up, and that Proposition No. 17 be placed upon its final passage. • 532 PRUCEKDINGS AND DEBATES The Uhair put I lie quest idu mi lln' luotioii ut the H'''itleuiaii from Lewis iV Clarke (Mr. Toole; ainj a vote hem^ taken the same was de- clared carried. Mr. .Vliddletoii, ol' Custer: 1 move you that Ihe aini'iidmeiit reported hy the Committee of the Whole to Proposition 17 be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair staled the motion. The President: The Clerk will read the amendments. The Clerk read as follows: In Section 4 insert the word "and" after "Secretary of State" so that it will read "Secretary of State and Attorney General." The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and a vote being taken, it was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: In Section 10 insert the word "district" after "school." Strike out the word "other" in line 2 after the word "which." So that the section shall read "The Legislature shall provide that all elections for school district officers shall be separate from those elections at which state or county officers are voted lor." The Chair put the question on the said amendments, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The proposition will now be placed upon its final passage, and the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. » The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickford, Brown, Burns, A. i''.; Burns, A. J.; Burns, Ldward; Cardwell, Carpentei', Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Eaton, Fields, Gaylord. Gibson, Gillette, Goddard, Graves, Hammond, tlartman, Haskell, Hatch, Hershfield, Hobson, Hogan. Jcy, Joyes, Ivanouse, Kennedy, knowles, Kohrs, Loud, Luce, .Maginnis, .Mar- rion, Marshall, Mayger, McAdow, Middleton, .Mitchell, Myers, Parberry, Hamsdell, Keek, Robinson, Hotwitt, Hickards, Sargent. Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Joseph K.; Toole, J. H.; Watson, Whitehill, Winston, Witter, .Mr. President — 02. Nays: None. Absent: Brazletou, Bnreii, Buford, Bullard, Burleigh, Callaway, Con- rad, Dyer, Hickman, Ivnippenberg. Muth. Warren, Webster — 13. The Chair announced the vote. The President: The motion prevails and Proposition No. 17 as amended is adopted and incorporated as a part of the constitution of the state of Montana. It will now be enrolled and referred lo the Committee on Revision and Phraseology. Mr. Joy, of Park: 1 nmve that we take a recess until 8 o'clock. The motion was seconded. Mr. Rickards,. of Silver Bow: 1 iikivc Id amend tlial we ild imw adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleinaii from Silver Bow (Mr. Hickards) and a division being called for the same was declared carried by a vot(^ of ;-i2 in the affirmati\e and 23 in the negative. The convention stood adjuui'ued until Tlnii'sdax', .\ugiist Isl. tSW). at 10 A. M. T\VI':\TYTH1IU> DAY. Thursday, .\iiuii.sl 1st, 1889. MoniuKj Session. 'I'he convention was called to order by tlir t'resident at 10 A. M. The Clerk called Ihe roll. The President: There is a note from Mr. Hicliards, of Silver Bow, slating that on account of illness in his family he was obligi'd to go home. It there be no objection he will be excused. The Chaplain offi-red prayer. The Clerk read the minutes of I lie pi'evious day. Mr. (jOnrad, of Cliot,eau: Mr. l^resident, 1 (lesiri> lo asl; wliat cunimittee the communication from General Rugar was I'iderred to. Till' I'ri'sidriil : Tlie ('.(unmiltee on .liidiciarx'. CONSIUT I lONAL C.d.WEXTION 1889 533 .Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I woulj likf to olJer a resolution and ask that it be relerreil to the same committee. The l^iesiilent : The fzentleman trum Clioteau offers the following resolution which tln^ Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: "Resolved that all Indian reser\ations witlim the state of Montana shall be under the jurisdiction of tlie L'uited States Court." The President; If there be no ob.ji-ction this resolution will be re- ceived and referred to the Committee on Judiciary. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge, sent up a proposition. The l^residenl; The gentleman from Deer Lodge offers a proposi- licin relating to water rates. file Clerk read as follows: Proposition as to water rates, offered by Robinson, of Ueer Lodge. "That priority of date of the appropriation of water shall be forever inviol- able, and vested rights so acquired shall never be disturbed; that such rights to the use of all water in the state, except as to such water that has heretofore been or may be acquired by damming or reservoiring the same shall be usufruct, and extend to such and so much as the owner thereof may have actual use for. and for such length of time as he may lune actuail use for the same. That the Legislative Assembly of the state shall enact such laws as may be necessary to carry the foregoing pro- vision into effect." The President: the Chair is of the opinion that this proposition properly applies to Committee No. 15 on mining, water and water rights, and it will be so referred to the said committee if there be no objections. The consideration of the additional section to Proposition No. 27 is now in order. IJoes the convention desire to take any action upon Proposition .No. 27, reported back from the printing committee? Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move the consideration of Proposition No. 27 be postponed until the afternoon session. The motion was seconded. Tlie Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer iMr. Burleigh ^ and a division being called for the same was declared earned by a vote of 28 in the affirmative to 24 in the negative. The President: Is there anything further before the convention under the head of unfinished business.' Mr. \\ arren, of Silver Bow: In connection with this matter, I think perhaps this capilol question will come up, and speaking in behalf of those who favor the removal of the capitol. we desire a full convention. We want a full and fair discussion of this matter, and I make the motion that next Wednesday in"where else. I for one am in favor of the amendment offered by my colleague and shall support it. The Chairman: The question is upon the adoption of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Custer. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer ,Mr. i^oud, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: In line six I see there is a clerical error. The word ""requested' should be ""required,' and I would like to have the word ""required" substituted for the word '"requested." 1 so move. The motiiin was seconded. The Chair put the question upon the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke Mr. Hershfield and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to Section 1. the Clerk read Section 2. as follows: ■"Sec. 2. All officers whose election or appointment is not provided for by the Constitution, and all officers whose office and duties may be here- after created by law. shall be elected nr appointed as may be provided by law.'' There being no amendment to Section 2. the Clerk read Section 3, a> follows: '"Sec. 3. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to authorize lotteries or gift enterprises for any purpose, and shall pass laws to prohibit the sale of lottery or gift enterprise tickets in this state." 'There being no amendment to Section 3. the Clerk read Section 4, as follows: "Sec. 4. The Legislative Assembly shall enact suitable laws to pre- vent the destruction by fire, from locomotives on railroads, or from any other cause, of the grasses and forests upon lands of the state or upon lands of the public domain, the control of which may be conferred by Congress upon this state and to otherwise protect the same." Mr. Goddard. of Yellowstone: I move to strike out Section 4 for the reason that it is legislation, and has no business in this constitution. The motion was seconded. the (>hair stated the motion. Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: I hope the motion will not prevail for the reason that 1 cannot see very much legislation in this matter. It .lust simply says that the Legislature shall enact suitable laws, and it seems to me it is the purpose of this constitution to indicate some of the laws that the Legislature shall enact. Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: I only wish to say one word in relation to this matter. If it is proper to have such a provision in the constitu- tion as Section 4. then it would be proper to have a provision in there that the Legislature shall provide for the punishment of misdemeanors. 538 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES lor tlie ijuuislimeut nl ci-iinL- of burglary, murilcr. pt'tit lan-uny. f;i-aiiil larcfMiy, ami pvery otlifr crinii' that is known to Hip statute: and if it is proper to put such a provision as that in tho constitution, it would be proper to put a provision in, in relation to trespassing of animals, and every other unlawful offeiisi' known to the statute. We have eiuiuyh nf these matters in the constitution now wtiich are simply legislation and nothing else, and therefore I am in I'avor of striking out of every pro- vision in this constitution anything which smacks of legislation. Certainly this is simply and purely legislation, and has no busness In this consti- tution. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I hope this will not be stricken out. I think it is a wise provision and a wise thing particularly at this time when our country is all on fire, and in almost every case is occasioned from the very causes to which this section directs attention. There is no legisla- tion in it; it is not legislative. It simply points and directs the attention of the Legislature in this matter. It says that they shall pass suitable laws, etc. 1 think in our Territory wliere th"re are such large stock interests, this matter should be covered by proper statute, and it may go lor years unless the attention is directed to the matter by this consti- tution. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lcjdge: So far as the proposition itself is con- cerned, that is embraced in Section i. It is all right and correct enough, but the only objection to its remaining in here is simply that it falls in what IS generally designated by lawyers and writers as the police power of a state. Whenever a state Legislature is clothed with that — with the police power of the state — then it is understooil what that means anil what it extends to. Then in legal itarlence all that is embraced in this Section 4 falls clearly within the police power of the state. Hence, it is not necessary for the constitution to go into every subject matter that belongs to the police iiower of the Legislature in detail. It is not neces- sary to go into this any more than it would be to go into a thousand other things that we might enumerate that the Legislature can act upon. It is not necessary to direct their attention to this in particular any more than it is to any other of a thousand different subjects of Legislation that might be embraced in the constitution; and if we follow them up one by one and direct the attention of the Legislature to all these various subject matters, we would have our constitution pretty near as large as Webster's unabridged dictionary. So, this being unnecessary in here, I am in favor of striking it out. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gcntli'mau from V.'ellowstone (Mr. Goddard) and a division being called for, the same was declared lost by a tie vote of 30 in Iho affirmative to 30 in the negative. There being no further amendments to Section 4. the Clerk read Section 5. as follows: "Sec. 5. The Legislative Assembly shall enact liliei'al homestead and exemption laws." There being no amendment to Section 5. the Clerk read Section 6, as follows: "Sec. 6.. No perpetuities shall lie allnwi'd, except for charitable purposes." There being no amendmeiil. Id Section (i. the Clerk read Section 7, as follows: "Sec. 7. All county officers shall keep llicii' offici's al the county seat of their respective counties." Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I move to insert after the wcu'd "officers" "except as otherwise provided by law." This section as it reads would make it obligatory on the county officers to have their offices at the county seat. Tile motion was secny provision of this section shall forfeit lo the shilf one thousand (SSI, 000 dollars for each and every viola- tion the reof, to l;e recovered by an action of law." Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I desire to offer an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Madison offers the following amendment: .\inend Section 10 by adding thereto "it shall be the duty of the Legisliitive Assembly at its first session under this constitution to enforce this provision by appropriate legislation." The motion was seconded. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Seel ion 10 as read is almost an exact copy of the constitution ratified by the people five years ago this fall, and it is well known that no more poi)ular proposition was submitted to the people of Miintana and received such general support as that one provision. Now, the only object of the amendment is this. In discussing the matter among the lawyers they are of the opinion that the Legislature would let this alone — in other words it wouhl be praclically an inoperative provi- sion. In the state of Missouri they have the sanii> provision exaclly, and i am informed by gentlemen in that state that that provision of the constidition is violated every day: that nolwithstanding that men would go and hold up their hands and say thai they would protect the constitu- tion, yet they would tra\el all over that state with passes in their pockets. Therefore. I want to make this provision ironclad. When it requires as a matter of duty that the Legislature sliall at its first session enforce what has been ratified by the almost unanimous vote of the people of .Montana five years ago. I want to put it in such a way that the Legisla- ture will not shrink from its duly. If they do, there will be somebody tr have something lo say. .Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: I move to strike out Section 10. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the molion. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: It seems to me that we could get at this matter a little more squarely by adding an amendmeni something like this — I apprix'iate the course of what my friend from Madison County says but 1 think lie has not enough of the right remedy to prevent fraud or perjury, to temptation, and it seems to me that if this amendment read something like Ihis: "Kvery railroad or other transportation company shall grant free passes or tickets to the members of the Legislative As- sembly and lo every other stale, county or municipal officer, etc., regard- less of fear or affection, hatred, malice or ill will" that it would strike to the root of this thing and cure it. If we put the railroads and other companies in this situation and compel them to pay tribute to these public officers, and help sui)porl them, it seems to me it would be a step in the right direction: and then when these men came to the seat of 540 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES government require tlieni to account for their railroad Iransijortation. Ut course. I am not going to insist strenuously upon it. .Mr. Maginnis, of J.,e\vis & Clarive: I rise to support the gentleman's motion. (Laughter, This is not a laughing matter. It is a serious prop- osition. These companies have use for all the sheriffs and dei)uty sln'i-iffs and other officers along their line all the time, and we have a great example m this matter from the fact that when the Congi'ess of the United States framed the Interstate Commerce Act this quesion came up as to how the members should be debarred from accepting any privilege from railroad companies, and the Congress settled it by declaring in tin; law that the companies should furnish that transportation. If we are going to legislate on this subject at all, I do not think we can do any better than follow the example of that illustrious body in accordance with whose act wc are sitting here today. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: When we are dealing with railroad corporations, we are dealing with rather dangerous engines; we are deal- ing with no ordinary artificial persons. The proposition submitted by the gentleman is very nice in theory, but 1 have always held tins, that when- ever any proposition coming before any legislative body affecting railmad corporations, that they can always see their way around perfectly well: they lie back and watch the Legislature amuse itself all it wants to upon their propositions, because they see, under the advice of the best counsel that we have, that the proposition is entirely harmless to them, and they are willing for a legislative body or convention to amuse itself with it all it wants to for a plaything. But whenever a proposition is suggested and under the advice of their counsel they see the possibility of harm made to them. then. sir. they invariably step in and say to I hat body "No sir. that shall not go through," and unless the members «i the deliberative body are made of such material that they are like handling a stubborn government mule — unless they have that firmness in them, allow the railroad corporations invariably to handle that body, and it does not own itself. In one time, sirs, in ten wamld a legislative body own itself when besieged by railroad corporations. It is speaking badly of humanity; it is speaking badly for the independence of these deliberative bodies, but we must look at facts as they stare us in the face. .Ndw, this proposition suggested would he very good, if it could be carried into effect. It would be a good change that the railroad corixiralions would desire us to amuse ourselves with: but as a legal conundrum it appears tr. me that so far as all the railroad companies in the state of Alontana that have been constructed, that this proposition would fall harmless, for the reason that it cannot be enforced. We cannot go into our constitulion and impose new terms and conditions upon these railroad corporations who have received their authority to act under the government of the United States. We have no power to impose these conditions upon them. Therefore, any provision of this character that we seek to engraft in our constitution would be laughed at by the railroad companies, if it was intended to work an injury to them. For that reason, I am opposed to the amendment, and I am in favor of the plain proposition that is con- lemplated in Section 10 as the report of this committee, I am opposed 111 this amendment sought tit require them to furnish free transportation lo a certain class of indi^•idllals or officers, for the reason that il cannot he enforced. Mr. Buford. of Madison: T would like to ask if this has any hi'aring upon our Stock Insjiectors that pass over the road. If so, I ain in favor of striking out the section. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: 1 am a little bit surprised at the animus of my venerable friend from Deer Lodge County. If there is any one county in this convention that has stood iiat from the beginning to this time "attempting to hold matters of legislation out of this Inndameiital law that we are trying to enact that \("nerable gentleman certainly has been one of them, and I have felt with him in that mailer. There are a thousand and one things that might creep into this constitulion thai are matters that are the subject of legislation, but to take them as funda mental propositions or as becoming parls of the organic law of .Montana, they certainly are out of place. .\ow. there is a law almost verbatim with this Seel ion 10. or at least, such a law has been attempted to be eiiacteil by the Legislature several times. I believe it never was enacted, lint consider for a moment the situation. Here we ai-e as ilelegales i-epi'eseiit- COXSTITLTIO.NAL CU.NVKM'IUN 1889 541 iiig tlio people, coming liero and tying tln' hands of the people, by reason ol legislation that indieates upon its taee that the people have not con- fidence in their fellow men; m other wonis, by a kind of h'gislatioii wherein I said to myself 1 have not tlie confidence in myself as a public idficer, and consequently I will fie my hands behind my back for fear that 1 might steal something, or for fear that some railroad company might give me transportation from Miles City to Helena, and by reason of that transiiortation of probably ten or twenty dollars, I will be expected to violate my oath as an officer and not treat that corporation fairly and xiiiarely" upon its merits the same as an individual. Tlie railroaii companies and corporations of this state are a part of us. Without the existence of railroads Montana w^ould not be much today, and to say that because you offer me a ride in your conveyance that it is going to influence me "so that I will come in here as a member of the Legislatui'c or a Judge of the Supreme Court, or occupy any other official capacity, and by reason of your having given me a ride, say that I would decide a matter m your favor regardless of the merits of the question, seems to me to indicate that the people have not confidence in themselves. 1 do not believe there is anv clamor for anything of the kind. I have no hesitancy in saying that 1 ha\e ridden more than once on free transportation, and 1 do say in addition to that that it never had any more influence on me than if I had paid my fare. .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Are you not an attorney of a railroatl corporation? Mr. .Middleton. of Custer: I never was the attorney of a railroad corporation, thank God, in my life. I have succeeded in making a bare living without being the attorney of any corporation. Mr. Calla^^ay. of .Madison: As the mover of this amendment, I wish to ask a question. I will ask the gentleman whether he came into the convention with a pass In his pocket or not? Mr. Middleton, of Custer: Whether I came into the convention with ■a pass or not I do not consider as any of the gentleman's business. iLaugh- ter and applause; I came here not as the representative of any railroad, not as the representative of any labor organization, niit as llie representa- tive of any locality, to do what seemed in my judement to be right m the interest of the people of the whole Territory of Montana. I ha\e taken an oath of office to support the constituion of the United States, and to perform those duties faithfully to the best of my knowledge and judgment, and for any gentleman to stand upon this floor and to say that he himself or any other person now a pul>lic officer in the state of .Montana, or hereafter to become such, would stoop to favor a railroad corporation or a stage company or anything else by reason of having been given a free ride, certainly impugns to himself something that I do not desire to take to myself. If the honorable gentleman from Deer Lodge were one of the Supreme Judges, or was a District Judge, as he is very likely to be — and 1 think he will make a very good one — and sime attorneys who had a case to try before him invited him to dinner, invitiKl him to the hospi- tality of his home — does he pretend to indicate to this convention that that would influence him as the Judge in favor of that attorney's cause or the client? Is it not practically thi' one and the same thing? I believe that the railroad companies and the stage companies, and all those con- cerns. liaM' a richt to exist, and haxe a right to the same kind of tri'at- ment that other companies and eorpoi-ations and indi\iduals get. and no better. 1 believe that there should be such legislation as \Vould. even in the shape of police legislation, require and enforce the performance of their duties as thev should be performed. I believe that that same sort of thing should apply to individuals. But to say that because, as the gentleman has suggested, that perhaps I rode from Miles City here on a pass. 1 am standing up here as an advocate of railroads, standing up here and placing myself in a position where by reason of a ten dollar ride or a twenty dollar ride. I would violate my oath, and do for that company what I would not have done had it not been for that pass, I think is carry- ing the matter to the utmost extreme. The gentleman has suggested that the constitution framed and adopted by the people five years ago had that provision in it. I am not aware of that fact; but let me say tnis to you, that the actions of this convention thus far have indicaed that no conven- tion on the face of the earth that ever preceded it had any intelligence to compare with this con\ention. The constitution of the United States, that great article that has stood for more than one hundred years with 542 I'HOUEEDINGS AND DEBATES hardly an amendment, with no legislation in il, is cast aside as no criterion to be governed by here, and lor the same reason the conslitulion of live years ago has hardly been given consideralii)n. although that i-onstitution was very lar Irom running in the same line as the constitution ot the United States. It seems to me that w'e are here for the puri^ose of enacl- ing fundamental law, of simply rilacmg certain checks upon certain offi- cers, and perhaiis upon c(M"tain nueslions of legislation. Oulsidc nf llial the Legislature has and should have full and absolute power and (•(mlrol over all these matters;, and to say that we should vote in favor of such a section as Section 10 of that bill, tying the hands — not (inly lying the hands of the Legislature but compelling them according to the gentleman's proposed amendment, to enacl such laws as would enforce the ijcdvisidiis of this section, indicates that the gentleman has not confidence in himself — indicates a weakness in the case I have cited, that if T invili'd him to dinner at my house he would be so softened and mollified in my favor that he would do anything for me even to tlie extent of violating his oath — that if I gave him a ridi^ in mj^ carriage, although I have im car- riage, that I woulo have liiin to sland and fight for me and violale his oath. I do not believe that that kind of thing should go into this consti- tution, and 1 certtinly will supiKirt llic motmn to strike it nut. It is legislation, vicious legislation. Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clarke: The unintentional cnnfession on the part of the gentleman in his effort to strike out this section that legislative bodies have attempted to pass laws something ^^ilnilar to this section, and have failed, should in my opinion arouse the convention to the necessity of adopting this very section, and I trust that such will be the result. Mr. Ulark, of Silver Bow: I understand the motion before the cimv mittee is upon the amendment, offered by the gentleman fnim Madison. The Chairman: INo sir: there is a motion of the gentlemaTi from (iailatin to strike out Section 10. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I would like to suggest lo the Cliair Ihal a motion In ami'iid laki's precedence of a motion to strike out. Thai is a very well settled principle of law. The friends of a measure have a right to perfect it in every way they can before it is stricken out. Mr. Kobinson, of Deer Lodge: 1 understood the proposition to be voted on was the amendment of the gentleman from Madison. The Chniriiuui: 'the amendment of llie penlleman frmn .M idisoii is to add to Section 10 the words "It shall he the duty of the Legislative Assembly at its first session under this constitution lo enforce this pro- vision by proper legislation." Mr. Watson, of i-'ergus: I have only one word to say upon this subject. The committee in consiifering this subject had but one thing in view, and that was this: That while they might have differeii in regard to the necessity, the absolute necessity of that law. in order to preserve the purity of" legislators and public officers, they had no douht as to the desire of the people of .Montana that such a provision should he enacted in the constitution, and hence they have presented the article. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: As the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Clark, has well said, the friends of the measure have a right to perfect it so that it takes precedence of a motion to strike out; but as this proposition has laken somewliaf, ol' a wide range it Would perh:ips not be improper for me to respond to some of the gentleman's remai-ks, par- ticularly the remarks of the gentleman from Custer. I have no disposi- tion to inpugn the motive of any man. Perhaps I am not so strong in my convictions as the honoroble gentleman who poses here as a man who does not need the protection of the law in this respect. Mr. Chairman, this is not a new subject in Montana -and one word in reply lo the honorable gentleman from Ijcwis tV- Clarke. Major Maginnis. This history of legis- lation in conli'olling railroads has a life of more limn thirlv vears. I re- member, sir, as a member of tin' Illinois Legislature in ISC)9. wlien the first bill was introduced for the purpose of controlling the railroad in the state of Illinois, there were eighty-five members of the House and twenty-five of the Senate. At that time the growth of the railroads had checkered the entire state. They simply proposed to control them as against unjust discrimination, anil in that legislation every railroad at- torney in the state, every member of the r,egislature who was a railroad attorney, and every officer voted coiisistenlly in that Legislatiu'e against tlie iiro'position. Vou know, gentlemen, as the member from Deer I,odge CONSilTLTlO.NAl. CO.WEMION 1889 543 lias well said, that they will allow coiiveiitions and legislatures to amuse themselves, hut whenever there is a proposition that they do not want 111 pass they finally step hi and say "It does not go."' I do not want to impugn the motives of any gentleman here, but you can look around yourselves, and 1 tinnk you will find the majority of those men who go for this measure are in no way connected with a railroad company. I well understand the meaning of the honorable gentleman from Custer, Dv. Burleigh, in making fun cd' this measure so as to defeat it. Well now. we pass on a little further, gentlemen. We find that the state of Wiscon- sin did manage |o gel a bill through both houses of the Legislature con- trolling llie great corporations ol the state of Wisconsin. Vou know, genlleineii of this convention, that it is literally true that the rich in this country are growing richer and the poor are growing poorer. Why? It lb because of the trusts that are formed of capital, because of the great aggregations of wealth by which they have been enabled to ride down the poor man and stop his earnings. I admire a man that, by his intellect, his industry and attention to business, his economy, acquires wealth and uses It m this broad land of ours, out I do not propose to give my vote for the increasing of the power of corporations anywhere in the United States. And. gentlemen. I remember this fact distinctly, too, that in the former con\ention that I have named of a little over five years ago, I stated wilh(iul fear of contradiction that every man 'u that .•oiiventiou who was connected with railroad matters as employees or attorneys voted against the ciause that the people ratified by more than fourteen thousand majority in the Territory of Montana. So that when we come downi to ask ourselves, when you gentlemen go home and have reported that you have defeated this measure that" 1 say is one of the most public ones that is before the people — go and ask them and they will tell you it is so — if you are here to defeat their will, then meet them when you go home. I say this is a proper subject for this convention to act upon, to lay its hands upon the Legislature and restrain them. What are we here for but that? We are here for granting them power to do certain things, and then where danger lies restraining them from it. T do not believe in the proposition that because a measure is proposed, that throws restrictions around corporations and great powers, that is to im- pugn any mans sense of justice, or his conscience or uprightness. And let me warn you again, gentleman. We have here two great trunk line.s running through the Territory of .Montana, one 822 miles long, another one nearly as long, and just as true as you are born the results of the influence of those corporations will be felt. It is the experience of all men here that when you come to organize your state government and when you come to elect your senators, your Governor. Chief Justice and otiier officers, those corporations will come very near controlling thi' liolitics of Montana. They have always ilone it. and will continue to do it. \\ hy. it is within the memory of everybody who has occasion to read the newspapers that each party, be it said to its shame, has made exer- tions to captvire the railroad vote, and they have on one side or the other succeeded in doing it on every occasion. I say this provision can do no harm. I know the railroads wont support it. I know they do not like it now. 1 know they laughed at the members of the last convention when they went to insert that provision there: every soul of them voted against it. .\nd so it is today. Having said that much, gentlemen, and believing that this amendment is right and will prevail, and that this provision will go into the constitution, because it cannot do any harm but may do good. I shall vote for the amendment. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I desire by way of explanation to suggest lo the consideration of my illustrious friend from Madison County that if he thinks for one moment that I made the suggestion which I did by way of a verbal amendment here for the purpose of diverting the atten- tion of the convention from the true question presented, or for the sake of making sport, he is wonderfully mistaken. I can only account for his conclusion on the ground that tie seems to be unwell; whether he is troubled with a chronic dyspepsia or some mental aberration. I do not know, but he was never further from the anchor of God's truth in his life before. I believe that if the amendment that I suggested is adopted, that it will have the effect of preventing all this corruption and bribery and everything of that kind that is charged here, and will bring these men to their senses, and I know that when mv honorable friend from 544 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Deer Lodge County — my honorable friend and my |)atriiitic liirud — ((imi's to look the thing fairly in the face, he will come to the samecnnclusion that Ihave arrived at. Now, so far as the friendship of the railroad company is concerned, especially the Northern I^acific, no man who knows my history will accuse me of it. I think I can venture to say that I have hrought more suits against the Northern l^acific Railroad Company for ilamage to stock and propi'riy than any other attorney in the Territory of -Montana. 1 was the first man, I believe, to ever bring suits against them to compel the specific performance of their contracts with the poor settlers of the Yellowstone Valley, and 1 venture to say that I have fought those suits for the last five years, and they are still pending without any sign of yielding on my part; and 1 am the last man in the world who ought to be accused of friendship or partialily to railroad companies, or doin;; anything outside of my duty to protect them. I did not supijose that the radical measure which 1 introduced here would he adopted. There are some things which come sometimes witli such overwhelming force that people cannot comprehend them at once. (Jccasionally a great movement m the right direction is comprehen(fed and adopted at once, hut as a gen- eral thing It goes over and becomes discarded (iroperty, and finally men take it up by installments, and at las! adopt I he Whole tiling. But my objection to this clause is the argumeiil that I have urged here twenty- five times at least on this floor, that it savors of a species of iniquitous legislation, which has no place in this constitution. Now. I wll repeat again here thai this conslitulion is the creature of lii-' people; thai all sovereign power to make the laws and enact laws resided in the people of this Territory. They adopt this constitution, and whatever they insert here is a delegation of power to' the government, and can be exercised in the manner prescribed by the Organic Act. Now, this power is in the people; how is it to be exercised? It is to be exercised by them at the ballot box and by their representatives in the Legislature who are sent up to represent them, simply because they are too numerous to represent themselves. It is the sovereign power of the people, and all that you put in here is the mere curtailment of that power which is inherent in the people, and for that reason I shall vote against the amendment. The Chair put the question on the amendment of the gentlemen from Madison (Mr. Callaway) and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of 30 in the affirmative to ,32 in the negative. Mr.' Hartman, of Gallatin: I should like to ask the Chair whether the motion to strike out made by myself was declared out of order? The Chairman: Yes. Mr. Hartman. of (iallatin: I desire to renew it at this time. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I have an amendment to the section. Mr. (lOddard, of ^('llowstone: I have an amendment to that section if it he in order at this time. The Chairman: The gentleman from \ ellowstone. Mr. Goddard. offers the following substitute for Section 10: All railroads in this state shall grant annual and trip passes to all state officers and members of the Legislative Assembly, and for the purpose of carrying this provision into effect the Secretary of State shall furnish all raili'oad companies doing business in this state a list of such officers. (Laughter! Mr. Clarke of Silver Bow: As Ihe amendment conlemplale> shikin,- out the section and .substituting another I would suggest thai Ihe amend- ment of the gentleman from Silver Bow would be in order. Mr. .Myers, of Yellowstone: t desire to oflV'r an amemlmenl to the section as it stands. The Chairman: 'I'lie giMitleman from Silver Bow desires to amend by inserting after the word "Officers" in line 3 the words "newspaper Editors. '" Ml-. M iddli'loii. of Custer: I rise to a poini of ordei'. II seems to me llicri' was a motion made and seconded to strike out the section. the Chairman: That motion is now before the House. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: T rise to a point of order. It is a well settled principle of iiarliamentary law that has never bei>n disputed and cannot be disputed that whenever a proposition is before a delibeiative body, that before a motion to strike any section out can be entertained, thai a motion to amenil and jierfect it is in order. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 545 The Chairman: The Chair so rules, but there are no amendments tliat the Chair is aware of. Mr. Bufonl, of Madison: I have an amendment. The Chairman: Is it the desire of the yentlenian from Yellowstone to have his amendment put".' .Mr. Goddard, of Vellowstomv 1 willidraw (he amendment. .Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow. called Im' the reading of tiie amendment offered t)y himselt. . The Clerk read the same. .Mr. .Middleton, of Custer: Hefme tlii'se amendmi'nls are put I would like to have the point of order deli'rmmed. I agree with the gentleman from Silver Bow that if there are amendments pending that the mi)liiin to strike out is not in order, but at the lime this moliim was iiut and si'ionded there were no amendments pending and the committee is entitled to have that motion put before any amendments ran be entertained that were .■ a pass to a man lliai rides ovt-r the railroad — anii I will say tlint ihc diiinor question is no comparison to it whatever; a dinner costs nothing, but a pass on a railroad would cost from ffii to one hundred dollars. Don"! they know that the moment they give that pass to a man ho feels under obligation to the railroad company, and that everything else being equal all questions that come up before the Legislature he will give the benefit of the doubt to the railroad company in all probability, and in many instances ihere will be considerable stress upon the elasticity of the conscience. .Now, I am opposed to striking out this measure. I believe in putting men beyond temptation, and I believe we should throw such re- strictions about legislation and about judicial departments, and about the public (|(^)j:uinicnts of the Slate of Montniia as will tend to preserve the purity of men in office, and try to avoid if possible any undue influence in legislating upon (|ueslioiis that affect these corporations. Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: I am in favor of striking out this section, for I think we are getting beyond all the bounds of propriety and decency in telling the Legislature what it shall or shall not do on all questions which shall come up before it for its consideration, and every resolution of this kind introduced into this convention is a direct reflection upon the intelligence and the probity of the men who will be sent here to make our laws. I know a gentleman from the country said to me the other evening, in language not quite as classical as that in which Judge Cooley expressed the same idea to us here yesterday, but it was quite as forcible and as earnest, for -I think he had been imbibing a little freely from some of the Helena hydrant.s — he said "Don't legislate too much; leave a little for those who come after you!" He says "If you seventy-five fellows up in that convention think you monopolize all the intelligence of Montana you are off your base." I agree with him fully, and I merely wish to say that if the people of Montana cannol be trusted lo make our law^ and haven't sufficient intelligence, honesty and courage to do their duty without being told by this convention, then our boasted intelligence is a farce, our liberties are held by a slender thread, and our popular form of government is a total and absolute failure. Mr. Courtney, of Silver Bow: I wish to enter my protest before that motion is put. 1 am not in favor of striking out that section, and I do not wish by my attitude to reflect upon the honesty and intelligence of our people. The only opposition against this measure proceeds from the fact that it is legislation. Now, I am purposed to going extensively into legislation, but I do say right here that in all that is universally admitted to be good, vou may call it legislation if you please, but I am certainly in favor of it. Now, this section is not original in our constitution. It found a place in the constitution of 1884. We also find it in the constitu- tion of California. We find it in all these modern constitutions. Why was it put there? Simply because the experience of legislators saw fit lo insert it. and deemed it a wise measure, and I certainly think myself 548 PR(JCEE1)1.\«S AND DEBATES that if it is inserted liere it will serve a very useful purpose. Now, I have no antipathy to railroads. I do not wish my action to be so con- strued. 1 recognize the good they have done in this country, but I do unhesitalnigly say that any measure that has for its purpose the purity ot legislation, the welfare of the people, will always have my voice and vote in its favor, if I can comprehend it properly. Now, with my under- standing of this measure 1 am heartily in favor of it, and certainly shall vole against the resolution to strike it out. Mr. Robinson, of Ueer Lodge: As the proposition now recurs upon the motion to strike this out, it resolves itself into the question of whether or not a railroad company or transportation company shall hi' I'ntitieti to issue Irce passes to state and county officers. It conii's up squari'ly now before this committee. 1 desire to say in behalf of this proposition that IS embodied in the report of the committee, and in opposition to the motion to strike this Section No. 10 out — 1 desire to say a word in answer to some of the arguments introduced by some of the gentlemen in favor of striking it out. In the first place, they must stop and cnnsidei- that all men are not strong and fixed in their purpose of right as these gentlemen who have advocated it undoubtedly are. Those gentlemen. I dare say, in tracing back over the history of their lives, cannot call to mind an instance where they have been caught in a weak moment or where they have ever betrayed any weakness. They are acting upon that principle. They have implicit faith in their own strength of character, implicit faith in their ability at all times to resist temptation, at all times to stand erect and never be warped by any consideration of wrong. Those gentlemen are strong and fixed in their nujcal purpose i.if uprightni'ss. rhr> ac so formed and fixed in that that they do not see why other men should be weak, or should ever totter. All men are not alike in their natures, 'there are men who are strong at one hour of their lives, and will be caught in a moment of weakness in another and totter and fall. It is for the protection of that class of men. sir, that we seek to engraft this in our constitution. Those who are in favor of striking this section out do not need such a section to protect them, because their own fixity of purpose and firmness of character is a sufficient guarantee at all times. They have no weaknesses; they are always right, those men. Then I say this section is not for the purpose of protecting them, but it is for the purpose of protecting those who ai'e not so strong and firm. It is for the protection of men who have tlieir weak moments and who will vacil- late at times. It is for that purpose that this section is offered. Now, that, it has been reasoned from another standpoint that it seems to nii' is entirely wTong, and that is this. It has been argued by a gentleman m favor of striking this out in a way that would leave one to infer that those favorable to the section were hostile to railroads, that they were fighting railroads. I cannot see how it is to be tortured into such a con- struction as that, simply for the reason, if the railroad companies intend to be honest, if they do not seek to influence state and county officers, it, is for Iheii' iirotection to keep from issuing a large nunilMT of passes — it is a protection against the bums of the country. If their purpose is honest, if they do not seek to influence men. if it is so implied bribery, if, I say, they had nothing to gain hy issuing those passes, thi'ii 1 say these people stand as tlie friends of the railroad and transpoi'lation com- panies. If that is the idea of it. that they have no sinister tiesign except what appears on the face of it, then I say we are seeking to pi'otect them from issuing passes and tieiiig imposed upon by a lot of men who do not wish to pay their fares. If the railroad companies lia\'e to pay their tax to the government, and meet their obligations, why. let us make all and every one who rides upon their roads and their cars, pay tribute to them. If they do, then we are not hostile to the railroad company. We stand as the friends of the railroad companies against the assaults and attacks of those men who desire to strike that out. That seems to me to be the rational view of it. But the position the friends of this measure take on tins Section 10 is that there is a sinister design on the part of transportation companies to influence these weak-minded men who belong to legislati\e bodies in particular as affecting their interest. That is the whole theory upon which it is argued, that there is a covert meaning in issuing these passes, that is to say that they will attempt lo infhii'nee liolitical bodies and id'ticials in their la\or. It is understood thai nothing CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKMloN 1889 5W pays these transportation companies so well as the passes they issue, that they get much larger pay in the end for hauling men Iree of charge than they do where they receive the ordmary fare, \^'hy. then, sir, upon that same principle, there is one of the best published magazines in the Lnited States — probably the largest, if not the largest corps of writers in the Lnited States — adopted that view of it, prohibiting their corps of writers from acceptmg any free transportation from any steamboat or railroad in the Lnited States. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: What magazine? Mr. Robinson, of Ueer Lodge: It is hlarper's .Magazine. The corps of writers that belong to the Monthly, the Weekly, and the Bazaar. They prohibit any of their corps of writers from accepting a pass or transpor- tation from any company whatever. The reason for doin^r that is this: that it is human nature that the spirit of gratitude should go out from those who receive favors to their benefactors. Their object is to leave their writers free to criticise everything they think is wrong:, upholding what they think is right. They desire their corps of writers, in traveling over those railroads or steamboats, if they see a public abuse, they desire them to speak fully of it, speak freely and criticise justly everything in conuf.iion with it because if it is understood that a man, a writer, i.s riding ovei' the lines of any railroad, transportation company or steamboat company, tiee of charge, they feel a certain obligation not to criticise harshly or speak or write of tliem as they would if left entirely untram- meled. .My remarks have no application to the strong moral will of those men who are seeking to strike this out. because they are a superior class of men and it is not necessary to impugn their motives; but I am speaking in behalf of the weak mortals. Now, I say. those people, the Harpers, have good motives for refusing to allow their writers to accept passes for those reasons. Then, if as a business policy they apply that test to it. why should not we consider the same proposition in the same light here. I say that the railroads use this system for the purpose of influencing legislation: thai is the whole and sole purpose of it, and [ \\ill ask every gentlemen who is in favor of striking this out, how many of you have paid your own fare over the railroad to this convention. I imagine even some of the stern and sturdy ones who cannot be influenced, that tlie\ havi' come on passes, as firm as they are. I say. then, let us not trust legislatures too far. It is all right in theory, but practice oftentimes lias a marked difference from theory. If all men were as they should be, i! they were models, as my friend from Custer, true men. then we would not insist very strongly upon this proposition, but we would trust them in danger because we would know that their purity of character and uprightness would be a guarantee against their falling by the wayside. But all men are not so. We have seen examples or legislatures, sir. I have. I can call to mind instances of it, that, when legislation affecting railroads has been submitted to a fair and candid vote, where they were sure the vote would have been the three to one against it. where the measure was kept swinging for two weeks under one specious pretext or another, they would keep hammering at it until they would get a majority of votes for it. and some of them would be caught at it. Now, these are not such men as my friend from Custer, but they were of the weak, vacillating kind. Why. sir. more than that. I remember when a certain measure affecting a certain railroad was being considered in the Legislative Assembly of this Territory, there was one day when the members were bitterly opposed to it. but they were invited to a cham- pagne supper when ttie GoAernnr of Montana and a lot of railroad mag- nates and the Governor were there. They were weak minded men. It flattered them to be with that class of men. Now. I say that it is a dangerous thing to allow this system of passes, whenever a champagne supper, to my certain knowledge, wooed them right over to those corpora- tions. .\nd lei me say. gentlemen, upon this proposition, whenever these questions are involved, whenever a man waivers, whenever he hesitates n moment, wherever he clianaes his feelings, that change is just as certain and sure to go to the corporations as the sun is certain to set down towards the west. It is absolutely certain. I have never known an instance where a man who was voting his sentiments, whenever he made any change at all. I have yet to learn where a man changed and turned against railroad corporations. Then, with these facts staring us in the face, it is not well for our future protection, to place it beyond the temptation of man. I see no impropriety in incorporating this provision 550 PROGKEDI.XGS AM) DKBATES ill our coiislitutioii. U will save us a great deal of trnubli'. li will saxf us from oursi'lvi's at. some time unexijectedly. l''or tliese reasons, sirs, I am opposed to striking out this section and iu favor of retaining Sectimi No. 10 in our constitution. As a matter of faitli not because the Le},'isla- ture cannot lake care of itself. If these legishitors were all gentlemen of the slabilily of character of my friend from Custer, they would be all right, but all men are not so. and 1 admire my friend from Custer and liie chiss of men to which he belniigs — I admire them for their traits of character; but. sijeaking fnr a different class of men, and weaker minded men, I think we should engraft Ibis in the constitution. Sir, foi- these reasons, I am in favor of Section 10 and opposed to striking it out. Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge: I have just one word to say in regard to the gentlemen paying their fares to this coinenlion. I will say that I paid my fare here and I am in favor of striking out that section, because it is pure legislation. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: The debate on this question is getting a little monotonous, and if it is kept up. I think it will leave nobodv t,^ talk to. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: T move the committee do now rise and report. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from SiUer Bow fMr. Clark) and the division being called, the same was de- clared carried by a vote of thirty-five (35) in the affirmative to a vote of twenty-seven (27^ in the negative. IN CONVENTION President Clark: In the chair, the Convention was called to order. Mr. J. R. 'J'oole of Deer Lodge: Mr. Pn^sident your Committee of the Whole having had in consideration Proposition No. 28, have made progress, and ask leave for further time in which to make report. The President: The Crhairman of (he Committee of the Whole, reports I hat Ihe Commitlee have had under cimsideration Proposition No. 28 and ask for further time in which (o make report. Mr Hogaii of Silver How: I move we take recess until two o'clock. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hershfied of Lewis & Cark: I movi' to amend by makiiif.' it three o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on Ihe motion of the gentleman from Lewis it Clark 'Mr HershfiekH and a \ote being laken the same was declared lost. The President: The question now is niioii tin' motion of taking recess until two o'clock. The Chair put the question on the said molidn. nmf a \ofe being taken, the same was (ie(dared carried. Thnrstlay Aiiflnst 1st, 18S9. Aftci'iiooii Ses.sion. The Conventinn was called to order by the PresidenI at Iwo o'clock P M. Tlie Clerk called the roll. The President: The Convention, upon taking a recess had under con- .sideration General Orders. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I now move. sir. thai the Cunxenlion re- consider the vote by which Section i, ,\rticle on Taxation was adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated Ihe motion. Mr. .J. K. Toole of Lewis i*L Clarke: I listened to the argumenl made the olhei' day upon this proposifion—finterrupted . The I'resideiit: The Chair would suggest tn the gentleman, that the question lo reconsider is not a debalabli^ question. The Chair put Ihe question on thi' motion of the C.enlleman from Madison (Mr. Callaway and a division being called for, the same was de- clared carried liv a vote of 3.') in the affirmative to 10 in the negative. coNs'irnrioNAi. convkxiion i.s«) 551 The President: The Qiieiilion is vipun tin' iirifiinal proiiiisiliini nnw be- fore the Convention. Tlie Clt'i-k will read Section 1 and then tlif gentle- man from Lewis & Clark will have tiic t'looi-. The Cli-rk read Section i lui the. Article of Taxation and Uevenucs as arpended. , The President: 'I'his proposition now remains as though no action lia'l been taken upon it. and it requires a motion to bring it foi-ward. Mr. Collins of Cascade: 1 move that the Section be indefinitely post- poned the motion was seeondeil. The (>hair stated liie motion Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & t'.larke: Mr. President, if this proposition which it is pro|)osed lo insert in the Constitution would in any manner ni- terfere with any plan now passed or projected upon the part of the United States, or with any plan whit h might be proposed or pro.jei-icd upon the part of the Stale of Montana. I shouM not be in favor of this convention ha'.ing anything to do with il. But it has no such purpose. It was never destined that by the insertion of this in the constitution of the State, that the United States or that the State of Montana should in any way be in- terfered with in any proposed plans. This proposition is not in the inter- est of any canal or ditch coniiiany. but il is in the interest of the settlers of the State of .Montana: it is in the interest of those people whom we have invited here to make homes, to settle up this i-oun- try. and if pos'^ible to reclaim arid regions and make them producti\e. so that not imly the land but the crops upon it. may respond and bear their just pro|)ortions of the public burdens of the state. It is to ijrotect us against the ditch companies, against their extortion in the tdiarges for the use (d water: it is to prexeiit a (Umal Company or Ditch Company from discriminating from the citizens of this state. I say that we will sell water lo one individual and refuse to sell it to another, so that we charge one man a given price for the water and (diai'ge another a differeni one. Now. if I have my way with reference lo this matter, I believe that I would desire that the Government of tlie United States would take charge of the wh(di> question of irrigation in these arid regions: that it shoukl not only build the reservoirs, but that it should provide for keepng the reservoirs and the ditches in proper repair, and pro\ide Ihe necessary officers for the equal and just distribution of that water. I would rather see that, and see the homestead law repealed, and all of the lanii laws repealed, so far as these arid regions are concerned, and that the land which is now un- Iiroductive might he put upon the market aiul sold for the highest price. If this was done, in my opinion, men who now. by means of private capital are enalded to idaim land to buihl liomes and make farms, would be able to build ami for a lesser amount to purchase the lands of the United Stales and have them all ready in a condition for irrigation. I helievi' that the amount, the increase, and the sale of lands by the Uniied States, would more than justify the expenditure ui)on their part; but I am very much like the gentleman from Silver Bow Judge Knowles"i with reference to this matter. I think it may be said that it will be long in the future before the United States will ever commit itself to such a policy as this. I know enough of the agitation of the question to know that it will take years before the thing is finally consummated if indeed it ever will he. and that for many years the most that can be expected will be that !he irovermnent will make thi: necessary surveys and locate the sites for the reservoirs and reserve them under tlie land laws of the United States. Now I say thai this proposition which is proposed here, is in the interest of this territory: that il is an inxitation to the settlement of what are now the acid lands of ihis country. Can it possibly injure anybody? Without it — without the provision which is here made, which brings these people di- rectly under tlie control of the stale by declaring it to be a public use. and vmder the control of the purchase price of the water and its use gen- erally, not into the hands of the Board of County Commissioner,s — for it seems that ihe gentleman from Cascade and Ihe gentleman from Lewis & Clarke have grave apprehensions that tlie County Commissioners could not be trusted in this matter: but it puts it in the Board of County Com- missioners or such other officers as this lonstitution shall provide. Let there be a board, if you please, whose exchwive duty and authority it shall be to look after and control this matter. \\'ithout it w-hat have you got? You have a statute which authorizes the appropriation of water by anybody for any useful puriiose. and with no sort of restriction on it, ex- 552 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES ccpt, lliat, till' ISnanl of Counl.\ Comiiiissionors iiKiy ri'^'uhilr its iiiirc. Hitc. \vn I'slahii.sli by a cuiistilutidiial provision, that this shall br a public usi;, thai we shall not only liavi' the rifiiit t,o rogvihilc tbo prii-i'. biil lliat. wo shall liavo tho right to go fin'tln'r and say. "Vou shall make no unjust ilis- iTiniination by selling to one inili\iilual and refusing to sell to anothei'."" U'e protci-l ourselves, not only against extortionale rates of corporations, that would engage in the conslruclion of those enterijriscs. but we jii'ovide a pro tection in the otlier I'espects wliich I have mentioned. How is it going to interfei-e with tile state? How is it going ro interfi're witli the government.' Doi's the gentleman from Cascade tielieve with such restrictions as these placiHl upon them tliat corporations are going to «T'ush in here at a rai)id rale and apiiropriate all of the waters of the great streams of this territory so llial. the go\-ei'nment will have none wlien the time comes? I take it that corporations, like individuals, transact business from a business standiioint. and that they are not going to be so swift to a\ail themselves of I he benidit. of a statute which is now made in their interests but in the interests of the protection of the people by submitting themselves so readily to these conslittitional provisions; because this article provitles that before they shall have the benefit of taxation upon their net proceeds that they shall file with the Secretary of State, in binding form, a written consent Lliat they accept the provisions of this article, as well as the other pro- visions of this constitution. Now, if it is in the power of the people id' the state, by an officer delegated with the duty of controlling this mailer, to protect themselves against these corporations, I take it that the corpora- tions themselves are not going to be particularly anxious to avail them- selves of the benefits of it. If 1 thought that under the constitution of the United Slates, that it would ije possible to exempt this property absolutely from taxation, I would be willing to do it, not that it would benefit the con- cei-n itself, but that, by reason of that, it would stimulate an enterprise in this country which would bring into existence new \alues. new interests and new properties which, so far as the taxation of them is concerned, would more than equalize and smooth OA'er any equality there may be. by reason of this exemption. Without it, millions of acres of land in this territoi'y. as has been frequently slated by the gentleman upon this floor, are perfectly barren and useless and respond in no sense whatever for the payment of taxes. But, if the water can be brought here, if corpora- tions are willing to avail themselves of the benefit of this, which 1 iloubl very much, the result of it would be, that every time a farm is createil, every time a crop is raised, a new value, a new product, something is brought into life which will help to bear Ihe burdens of taxation. Our con- dition, sir, is an anomalous one. \\'i\ happened to be in a section of coun- try, admitted by everybody to be an arid region. We cannot rely upon rain fall for producing our cro|js. It is a proposition staring us in the face, and admitted by everybody that we have got to provide for it by some method or by some means. As I said before if this proi>ositioii inti'i-fered with the State in any way, if it intiM'fered with any plan oi' jirojei'l on the part of the government I would be opj^osed to it but it is entirely con- sistent with everything that may be claimed both on the jjarl id" the stale and the general govi>rnmenl in this respect. I was somewhat surjirised to see the zeal and energy willi whi(di the gentlmnan from C.ascade opiiosed this matter. I fail to see in his argument a single reason or justification for it: why he was so zealous in his opposition to it. when hc> characterized the proposition which was presented as something which liarl been hatched out here during the recess l3y somebody. As was said by Judge Knowles. it was simply an effort to present something in what was conceived to bi^ un acceptable form of this conveidion. I take it I am willing to make the declaration anyhow, whether it be true or not, that I give the g(>nlleman the samii credit that I do every other member id' this convention so far as the pi'0])ositioiis which are submitted here are concerned, thai be has an "i'>e single ami warm and devoted heart" to what he considers to be the best intei-ests of the people of this stale: so far as any lobbying or any- thing of that kind or character is concerned, it was never known or ever heaid of, unless it be that I was taken for a lohbyisl myself sitting so far behind bei'e, as was suggested to me by .Judge Dixon yesterday. I think Mr. President, that this amendment ought to be adopted. It can do no possible harm, and in my judgmeid will be an imilalion to si'ttlers to come and utilize the waters of this country and I'cclaim the arid laniN. CONSTITUriliNAL r.U.WKMK )N ISH'1 553 Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: 1 have no desire to take iiii the valuaijli^ lime lit Ihis ruinention in atlemptin;^ to nialie any talk on this subjeet and. if ttie provisions in Section 2. or rather the last line of Section 2 lead thus: "The Legislative Assembly may. in its discretion, exempt from taxa- tion other proi)erty than that herein specified, hut all exemption shall be by general law." If that section had not been stricken out from Section 2, I imagine tlierc would be no strenuous efforts here on the part of a few individuals to secnre the adoption of this Section 4. The remedy \\hich we haN e would be to go to the Legislalure and ask them to exempt such property as dilch property, reservoirs and canals, etc. together with such other proi>erty as might be deenii'ii ailvisable at the liine. T-Sul. as that chance was ciil off. and the Legislaturi' is iirohibjled n(>w by the constitution and the Slate oi Montana fi-om entertnini'ig a proposition of that kind in my judgment it becomes absolutely neces- sary to have this pro\ision adopted in the constitution. I have no fear of corporations — i interrupted.' Mr. Collins of Cascade: I would state thai it is my intention to insert in the Article on .Miscellaneous Subjects that part of the section that was stricken out, when' it comes before the convention again. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: If 1 understand the rules, after we have once acted upon a matter, it is barred from further consideration, except by unanimous consent, and. as we are on this now, I think we ought to adopt this section, on the score of forbidding the Legislature the priv- ilege of exempting property. Now. we all know the trouble with this coun- try for a number of years. People who are familiar with the geography of this country and the innumerable water courses and the sources of supply of this quantity that flows down these water courses at certain seasons of the year know that there is no such thing as monopolizing the quantity of water piMvideil that storage houses or reservoirs are constructed for the purpose of preserving that water as was so ably discussed by my friend Dr. Burleigh yesterday. Now. it is a known fact with people who have had any experience with ditches, with a very few exceptions, in this territory, that it is dead capital. They know that t-here are very little returns from any of the ditches, save and except in the creation of prop- erty. They render themsehes less valuable for what they produce. The products enlarge our markets, feed our stock, etc.. and in that way tiecome valuable to the state. But as an investment there is no inducement, and hence it becomes necessary', in order to induce people to nivest money in this kind of speculation that they shall be benefited in some way. or at any rate exempted from the burdens of taxation to a cer- tain or limited extent. Ditch Companies are foi-ming over the country, combinations of farmers anti ranch men. for the purpose of conducting water through their land. They form a stock company of .?I0.O0O, $20,000. or •S25.fKXi perhaps more, or less: they go to work and construct their ditches: they do the work themselves to a certain extent and construct their ditches and flow this water on to their lands. It is a corporation, it is true. They have a system and a snper-inlenflent. and it is conducted the same as any other corporation, by a manager. Now. if their property is lo be taxed as other property is to be fixed, with reference to its cost or its value as it might be sold to combinations of a similar character who might desire to use the water, I undertake to say that it wnuld be stopped and for many years prevent the construction of these ditches and canals: bul, on the other hanri if they did not have to pay their fax, then this capital that came in manv parts of the country to construct these ditches and reservoirs for the storage of water would thereby very materially^ increase the agricultural products of this counfi'y. .\nd as this matter of reservoirs and storage of water is being disoissed and being developed. being as it were forged into some kind of form, I think that jieopb' who have an inclination or desire in that direction shovdd be encouraged. T am satisfied from the information that I have been able to gather from gei, tinmen on this floor and from talking with one of the menrbers of this Congressional Committee wh'> is in Ihe city- at the present time. Senator Plum, that by a little effoi-t on the part of the people in the arid districts which T am satisfied will be made, that it will be no trouble to seeure from the government ample grants for reservoirs and the construction and the right of way over the government lands — the use of government lands for these resei'voir.s — and that it will be no trouble to secure a grant suf ficient to cover all lands required for that purpose from the government of the United States. Senator Plum, of Kansas, says that from information and 55i I'HOCEEDl.NGS .VM) DEBATES ropresonlalious inaijc to him, that lie is satisfii'd that is the ijnifjnr proced- ure at 111!' presi'ut time. "Sow then, if the government will take that much interest in it — the g^overmnent of the United Stall's — that it will grant these lands for reservoirs, it seems to me that the people of Montana RhouJd not hesitate to provide some means whereby the capital invested in these I'eservoirs and ditches necessary to conduct that water from these reservoirs on to the land shoidd not be burdened by taxation, at any rate not lurlher than suggested in (hat Section, that is to tax the net income of lliose companies and ditches. It is a plain [)roposilion tliat it sliould be the net income of those ditches. 1 doubt if there will be any net income lo tax in many years; hence it will op'^rate as an exemption: and hence it is a (juestioii whether it is ad\i.-able to do so or not. In my judgment then, it is absolutely necessary foi' the agricultural districts, the stock growing districts along the base of the Rocky Mountains in the eastern part of the territory, and also in some sections of the western part, that some sort of provision of this kind be adopted or that the clause in Section 2, be restored. It seems to me that this fully covers the ground and will be sat- isfactory, and I hope that the genei'al motion to lay this proposition on the table will not be carried, but I hope that if will be put upon its final pas- sage and become a part of the constitution of the State of Montana. Mr. Stapleton of Silver Bow: This is a mailer that I suppose every one feels a deep interest in. I do not believe we have a more important ques- tion coming before this convention and it is a matter of such great im- portance that I am not in favoi' of taking it up now. and am not in favoi' of finally passing it at all at this lime. Now. when the members of this convention were elected, there w-as no thought upon the part of the people that they were going to pass upon a question of this character. This is purely Legislation. 1 think there is no lawyer in this liall, that will not admit fhat is a matter pundy of legisla'tion, and, Iherefore. it is and ought to be left to the Legislature Everything that it is proposed to do b>' this Section can be dom^ by the Ijegislafure. .Ml'. Myers of Yellowstone: Have we not already lied the hands of the Legislature by refusing lo allow them to exempt property from taxation"' Mr. Stapleton. of Silver Bow: I'ossibly, and I am in favor of that. Mr. President. 1 am not in favor of allowing the Li'gislature to exempt prop- erly from taxation. The princiidc is that all iiroperty stmuld pay its just anil proiiorlionate share of taxation, and the only reason that we exempt any is because it is a public benefit and this would not be a public benefit even on the premises upon which the gentlemen have argued in favor of the proposition in this Section. It could not be a matli'r of general and public interest lo Montana. It would only affect locally part of the people, for instance, on the Missouri: that would only affect after all. a small section of Ihe country and. therefor it is not of general interest to the people of .Montana, and I would not l)e in favor of exempting from taxation. But w-hat 1 was going to say. is this. That this is something bi'ing agilat.'d Ibis year on account of the very di'y season which has ca>;sed a great deal of talk about buildmg large ditches and reservoirs and in doinsr evirylhing that ijossibly can be done to better the irrigation of the lands of this arid section. Now. they have only begun to agitate this question, he- cause before this year there has been water enough for everybody and this has been a very vexed question. Now, if we leave this to the Legislature, the people will have time to talk it up and know what they wani and per- haps all Ihe Legislators then who are elected lo the Legislatui'e to pass laws, will know what Ihe wishes of their constituents are on this subject, because it will be made an issue and in that way can reflect the wishes of the people. Now, this convention is not in a position to do that. The fact is that this is Legislation and we have not had sufficient lime lo con- sider it to know what the final result ought lo be. Now I say that that Legislature can do everything connected with this matter that is necessary and I am not in favor of exemplii\g them from taxation so far as that is concei'iied. V\'hy. Mr. President, look how things have been conducted heretofore and thei'e has been no cause of complaint. There wei'e no groiuids for any. A man goes out on Ihe arid jilain that is worth nothing almost, at least for Ihe government price. He goes lo work at bis own ex- pense either by his labor or by the expenditure of his money and digs a ditch from some creek or some river and throws the water upon that land and in that way makes it inoductive. Now. Mr. President, that land wa'* not really worth anvthing altbnuwh he paid a dollar and a quarter an acre for i'l ; but he only pays Ihat because he knows that he can get Ihis water CONSTITUTIUNAI, CO.NVEMIO.N 1880 555 upini it. .Nnw, by digging (his ditcii and running il upon tliis iiicco of land, it makes il productive. He raises all the cereals and all the things that can be raised in this latitude and in that way he makes it worth $10. $20, $25 and $50 an acre, When the assessor comes around, he assesses that property for whate^■e^ the value of it is. which was nuule by this ditch. Now. I ask if a man is not paying taxation on his dilch. E\erybody can see that, because is it not only by \irtue of that ditch that he has made thi.s pro|jert\' worth $iO, $50 and SOO an acre or whatever it is worth. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: I would like to inquire if through this sec- tion in any manner, it would affect the price of the land, made more val- uable by the building of these ditches and reservoirs? \\'e do not propose lo exempt the land. It is only to exempt the ditch on what it pays on the net proceeds Mr. Stapleton of SiKei- liow: My answer to that is. Mr. President that you allow companies and individuals to go to woi'k and build a ditch. They sell their water for a certain price and are exempted from taxation and I hey make thai land proilucti\c that was not productive before. Now, the people that buy that water, who pay two dollars an inch, or whatever they pay for it, they are the men who pay the tax mi the enhanced value upon that land. Suppose that land is made valuable, w'ho pays tlie tax? Is it the n)an who buys the water and who makes use of it, or is it the man who owns the ditch and sells the water? I venture to say il is the man who buys the water and who makes use of it to cultivate his land who pays all the additiinial taxation. Xow. J say Mi'. President, taxes fall where they should not fall, at least they should be di\"ided and, if you make the ditch pay anything it will not be necessary for the land to pay all the taxes. But the way you propose is that the land should pay all the enhanced value and the ditch itself shall not pay anything whatever. Xow, I believe that money, in whatever business it is, should be taxed, tax all alike and the man who puts his money in a ditch should pay a tax on it the same as the man who puts his money in a farm. I do not believe it is right to exempt the (Jitcli. Xow, one of the arguments that has been used here by my friend Mr. Toole and others was that this can surely do no harm. Xow, I think it might possibly do a j;reat deal of harm. I say that we have not had time to reflect upon it. People do not know what they want today. But, what they say is that we are so tying up ttie hands of a company or cor- poration who want to build a ditch that they will not accept the terms, proposed here. X'ow, if they will not accept the terms what are we passing the section for? What benefit is to be had by it? We want such a law as will be just and equitable between the men who own the ditches and the men who own the land, and, if the argument is worth anything at all and they tell you that we are passing a law and we are trying to pass a law that no one will accept this is just as objectionable as the other is. If the terms of this section are so harsh that no one can build a ditch under it and live, we have no right to pass it at aill, because that is an unjust dis- ci-imination against some one and 1 do not care which horn of the dilemma you take, it is wTong to incorporate this section of the constitution. Xow, I believ(> that we should lea\e Ibis to the Legislature, that the people niay reflect upon it and know what they want. I do say that this is Legisla- tion and I hope this motion will be sustained and this matter will be in- definitely postponed. Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: I must say that I am considerably mysti- fied upon the question, of what is Legislation and what are legitimate con- stitutional provisions, from what the gentlemen say. Xow. we consider that it is perfectly proper in this constitution to have an article upon the subject of taxation, and to provide how property shall be taxed. .\nd then we have provided a special mode in which mining pi-operty shall be taxed. Xow. that is all legitimate, and perfectly constitutional. It belongs to the constitution. In my judgment i't is not legislation at all. Then, we come down to this matter. The gentleman says this can all be left to the Legislature, for the Legislature to do just exactly what they have a mind to. on this subject. Well now, if we do not make a special exception in relation to these water ditches and provide an amendment that they can be taxed in this way. I would like to know how you are going to tax them any different from any other property, you are bound down here by the rules you have made here and you have struck out this clause that they may exempt other property than is specified here in this constitution. Xow, what we are doing today is just simply providing a rule of taxation, and 55(i PHOCKElJl.NCiS AM) I iKHATKS if yiin iciiNc il iiiidci' lln' ,i;i'nrr;\l nili- il, lias yuL to lie taxi.'il uialrr lliu geii- »'ral riili'. TliiTc is aiuttluT iiiaflor. A'liw I know eaL'li Slatuto provides thai coi'pDi-aUoiis taking out water to sell, that it may l)e regulated by the County Conuiiissioners. But liow about comijanies or persons? Perhaps when a person incorporates under the law and aeeepting tiie provisions of ihr corporation law they may be found by that pi'ovision in our law. Iiul il you maUe any pro\ ision in your constitution in this matter can y(ju go to a man and say, "here, you own this water: you have appropriated it; it is your watei' and you are selling it here but wi' will provide by law that >ou shall sell it for just a certain pi-ice or will put this matter in the hands of ihe County Commissioners." Can you go to a merchant and d) that? Would you say that was in the province of Ihe legislative power to go to a unM'chant and do that? If you can go to a merchant or go to a farmer anri say what he shall sell his products at, a certain price, why. you should go back in this mailer to the days of the old sumpliiary laws which presci'ihed what a man should wear and what he should get for his silver and what he should g-ive for the food he ate and di'ank. Now. a gooil many gentlemen that stand with me in this matter really do not care very much about this law except as we believe it woulii be for the welfare atid prosperity of the agricultural interests of this Territory, and so far as that has been concerned, we have been in favor of it. We would like to see every section of Montana pi'osper. Whatever is the prosperity of one section of the country is our prosperity, because we SLtc all Monfanians. If they prosper down by Great l'"alls. the people of Butte take pride in that because that is a part of their country and the idea of selecting out here certain sections of the (country and saying that we shall not provide in any way for the prosi>erity and d(>velopment of that country, because that belongs to a little se(dion of country where we do not live, and because we are providing for the special development of the agricultural regions and not of the mining regions? Why, gentle- men, I have no thought of taxing the constitution in that way. If we can fix up a constitution to make the agricultural portions of Montana prosijerous, I would like to do it. I would feel that, as a Mon'lanan. I was doing my duty and that it was not a local matter — that it was for the good of the whole Territory — that all pai'ls of it should flourish and prosper. There are a great many tilings that have been said about this matter that I do not comprehend and understand and I cannot compi-ehend or understand how any man in the ai^ricultural sections of this territory would be opposed to this law unless they think that by allowing in a constitution that these ditches should be taxed only on their net income, and providing that the rates allowed would he a grinding monopoly upon the people, that they should be fixed by the County Commissioners. &c. — I cannot see unli^ss they think that that is serving in the same way. and that thes(.' ditches should just be put on the same basis as other property. If they are all of that opinion, why. they know more about their section "f country than we do and T am in favor of letting them have thi'ir way. Now. I think I have said all I will ever say upon this question. Mr. Cooper of (iallatin: I hope the motion of the gentleman of Cascade to indefinitely postpone this proposition will not prevail. Per- haps if r lived in a section of the country similar to that in which the gentleman lives, that enjoys the reputation of being the peach belt section which requires no artificial irrigation, T might perhaps stand in the same position in which he does. Hut. unfortunately, I come from a section of the country which it has pleased Professoi' Hayden to style "the Egypt of Amei-ica." Oallatin Valley. We cannot raise very much there without irrigation and that is one reason why I am adxocaling this pi'oposilion and because our people want to have work and demand some relief. Of course, they do not say what they want but I have studied this matti'r myself thoroughly in all its different phases, and I am willing and fr'ee to say that this is the only propositon that has come to my mind that would give them any relief. I am very much astonished to heai' the gen- tleman from Silver Row. Mr. Rtapleton. a gentleman so learned and capable of -luidei'standing all the wants of this teri'itory — I am astonished to hear him say here that a matter of this kind would not be of g(>neral benefit. 1 ask him and ask every gentleman if the inqiortance of thi' mines of this Territory is not of general benefit: if the imporlanci' of the stock interest of this 'Pei-ritory is not of general benefit and also if th(> import- ance of the agricMiltural inler(>sls does not i-edoiuid to Ihe general welfare of this whole commonwealth. It seems to me to be a plain pi'oposilion. CONSTIll TIO.NAL CO.NVE.NI ION IS89 557 That whi'i-f Ihoi'i' is a pnipositinn of impoi'laiici' in nnc purtiou of this Territory that it ought to he t;rasped ami it ouslit lo be encouraged by men who are here representing different industries. It seems to me that we are here representing only the industries of Montana, the good and welfare of Montana, and I hope that (his proposition will receive the con- sideration of this convention and that they will vote against the motion of the gentleman fi'oni Cascade to postpon{' inilefinitely. I want to say tliat I appreciate and our people will appreciate the efforts upon this floor of disinteresteil gentlemen from the mining sections of this Terri- tory, and we will not forget them. I am glad to see them take a broad ami expansive view of this question, and say they are for the general interests of this territory. Mr. A. .J. Burns, of Lewis & Clarke: I think it would be perhaps well to have corporations build ditches and canals for the purpose of irriga- tion, but they would only take up the profits in this Territory and would leave the matter in a worse condition for some future time. We have in this Territory some twenty million acres of arid land anrl, according to the best information that I could get, there would be only three million acres of this arid land that would be irrigated by private means or private operations. The balance of that would be left either unirrigated or the state would have to irrigate it by some other means. Now. I do not believe in letting outside capital come into this Territory for the purpose of taking up all the best waters in the state and leaving the state hereafter or the United States to lake up the difficult and expensive ways in the future. For that reason I am in favor of this proposition. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: Of this proposition at the outset I was disposed to think that all the provisions there should to put in the constitution as to the matter of exemption was simply to provide that Uie Legislature^ mdght enact reasonable exemption laws, and I regret sincerely that I was not present to hear the discusson of this section when it was under consideration before: but having listened to the dis- cussion today and having .a-iven this matter some little thought and being to some extent familiar with the condition with a portion at least, of the lands of this territoiy that are susceptible to irrigation, I am disposed to favor the adoption of this section. I had the pleasure on last Saturday of riding down on the train fnim here to Miles City with Senator Stewart. Chairman of the Irrigation Committee, and when we were passing down through the Yellowstone Valley from Livingston all the way to Miles we were approaching and touching upon the Tongue River Valley, and that gentli'man \\as elated and sui-prised that there were so many hun- dreds of thousands of acres there that were susceptible to irrigation without any reservoir system, but simply by means of ditches, from the fact that the fall of Ihe Yellowstone River is sufficient to take out a ditch anywhere and carry it round along eighteen or twenty or perhaps fifty miles so that you coidd put the water on the fable lands one hundred feet above the river at this point. Now. it has been suggested here by Mr. Staplefon of Silver Bow. that it is because this is a particularly dry season (hat this matter is agitated at this time. I submit that all of those lands in that valley and the Tongue River Valley, and so far as I know in most of the river bottoms and valley of this Territory, are practically worthless lands without some means of artificial reclamation. Now. then, those lands can be reclaimed by means of ditches, and it is a demonstrated fact that the inherent properties of the soil on the two rivers that I men- tioned, are such that with a sufficient amount of water it will grow any kind of proilucts and grow them in abimdance. If those lands can be made producii\'e and valuable by means of irrigation, is it not wise for us to provide as a fimdamental proposition and make it a part of the constitu- tion that any person or company or corjioration who will come in and CO to work and construct a ditch that will render those lands more valuabl". render them more productive, and hence place them where they will bring in great revenues to the counties and to the state — is it not desir- able to hold out such inducements as we can. can there be a stronger inducement held out than thus making it a constitutional provision? Now. it is true that in a sense it savors of legislation perhaps more than of fundamental law. but. if you will fake into consideration this fact thai an irrigating ditch when once established is a permanent thing or pre- sumably permanent, that there is nothing so uncertain as a Legislature — this Legislature will build up and in the next one or two years hence will tear down; this Legislature will provide exemption laws and the 558 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Legislature two ycai'.s heiiee would i-epeal fhciu, that no [lersoii nr corpora- tion would leel justified in coining in here under these circumstances, even if that were held out to them as an inducement by reason of a law on the statute books, for fear that very law might be repealed at the next session. And, in order that we may enact something tliat the people can rely upon, in order that these arid lands may be reclaimed, in order that all portions of the Territory may be treated alike in this matter, it seems to me that this is a wise provision. Now, from w"hat informa- tion I have, I would have felt disposed to oppose, if I had been here, the matter of exempting mining property from taxation, although I am not prepared to say that the provision of this proposition wiiich was adopted relating to tlie matter of the exemption of mines was not right. — it may be a proper incentive to capital and investment and to the development of the mines in the Territory, but. if it is an incentive, should it not be cer'tainly an incentive in the agricultural disti'ict of this state that the per- sons may have such inducements as we can hold out to them In come in here and construct and maintain these ditches and render these lands valuable, for. as a matter of fact, they are practically valueless now except as for grazing purposes and not very valualile for that for on the river bottoms there is very little grazing for cattle anywhere. And, in view of those facts, I am disposed to think this section as it stands is a good one and should be incorporated into the const itiit ion. Mr, Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I dislike to trouble the convention on this subject and will only do so in a few short words. The whole debate of this subject shows that is it purely a legislative proposition, Tlie facts and figures that have been arrayed — the arguments that havi' been arrayed on this side — are facts and arguments tliat should have been made in a Legislature and not in a convention, and I will preface my proposition primarily by sa>'ing that I am in favor of leaving this whole matter with the Legislature and people of Montana. Gentlemen say that we have repealed a section in the constitution which gives the Legislature that power. The constitution has not passed from the hands of this con- vention. There are other schedules to which such a proposition will be germane, and if it is deemed wise by the convention. I am in favor of placing such a provision in the constitution as will allow future Legisla- tures to consider this matter in a manner such as we cannot. The ipiestion of exemptions is a dangerous and ticklish one at best; it is one upon which the iieople who bear the burdens of a country an' rightfully sensitive and outside of charitable and educational institutions themselves, only exemption from the ordinary methods of taxation provided for in this constitution, for I deny that the section in regard to the taxation of mines is in any way an exemption of mining from taxation. It brings us simply to the fact, whether we make this property exempt from taxation. Now. my friend. Mr. Toole, for whom I have the greatest respect, says he wishes it were possible to exempt it forever by the laws and the consti- tution of the tJnited States. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Not forever. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis it Clarke: That was what I undei'sliidd. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis t*t Clarke: If it were possil)li' to exempt property under the constitution of the United States fi'om taxation. I would b£_very glad to do it until these lands were reclaimed. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: Now. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that if there is any kind of iJi'0|>erty that ought not to he exempt(>d from taxation, it is ditch property. Yfni take a man that has a manufactory. He employs a certain number of men: a great many people are at work all the time: the expenses are great; the incomi-s are very little over the expenditures generally. Bvit take these ditches when once built. I know that the gentleman will say that the repairs to these ilitches are always a continual tax upon the company. So they are. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: 1 want to ask you gentlemen if it is not a fact, that the creation of these ditches creates the property. Tlierc is no Iii'ciperty mere until tlie difclies are bnill. and tlial creates what property there is. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis iV Clarke: I will go on to meet that. Of coui'se, however, as the gentleman from Yellowstone showed the other day, the keeping up of repairs to these ditches was a great tax. So they are when they are built in a flimsy way. But let these ditches he properly dug: instead of tempoi-ary flum(>s. let them haxc masonr.y flumes such as have been constructed in 'itlier countries. Then where are the expenses CO.NSTIlLlKJNAL CU.\VEM1(».\ 1889 559 (if these companies"? These valuable franchises which you do not tax exist and they have a revenue without any great burden on their part, as tlie old formula goes, "as long as grass grows and water rolls." And it does seem to me, after all. that of all the species of property in the world, that tliat is the species of property that ought to bear its reasonable share of taxation. Nor do I agree with my friend in saying that it woul<» be a good thing to repeal the homestead laws and let the people build these ditches. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: The gentleman misquotes me again. I said the land laws of the United States, except the homestead laws. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I am very glad to have the correc- tion made, because I know that my friend always has been and always will be in favor of the rights of the people. I have seen circumstances which demonstrated that fact to me, and consequently. I was astonished when the declaration came from him that he would be in favor of wiping out the land system of the United States, which is making homes for hundreds today, ^^■hy. Mr. President. I need not dw^ell upon the evils which this proposed system of landlordism and rent would imply. The wcrd i? full of examples of it. The eai'ly gardens and granaries "of this world, the very cradles of civilization were countries that were irrigated. These ditches were built by the people. Kings and monarchs and nobles finally got hold of these franchises — these water rights — not only of Egypt, Init in Assyria and Mesapotamia. and they tax the people out of those lands which were once the gardens and granaries of all the world. bloomin,g like an Eden, the very cradle of civilization of the human race and their barren and desolate fields are baking in the sun today. I have a hope that there will be no personal feelings about this matter. I do not care whether any corporation wants or does not want it so. We stand on larger grounds and look to the future. It is in the discussion of systems and their effect upon posterity that this convention ought to be engaged. 1 say. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, it would be no benefit to the settler to invite him here on any false theory, to get his home under water from o;ie of those corporations, and when he had reclaimed that land and built his orchard and made his home, to have him evicted because he could not pay his water rates: his life wtisted and he sent out a vagrant and a beggar from the country. I do not overdraw the picture. I am talking experience. I have read about its effects in Colorado and Xew Mexico. The President of this convention himself gave me an instance last evening which came under his own eyes in Arizona: and. my friends, it is only to avoid these dangers that I seriously ask the convevntion to pause before it goes into this matter of restricting, for this is a matter of legislation and should be left to the people and legislators of Montana to look after by and by. Why should we exempt these big ditches, the property of cor- porations from taxation, when we do not exempt the little ditches. Gen- tlemen say it will do no hurt. Will it do no hurt to gobble up all the watf-r. so that when these states or the United States come along they will find all these priority rights ahead of them, and they cannot engage in any general system of irrigation? Mr. .1. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: T understand this covers all kinds of ditches for sale, revenue or distribution, or any kind of use. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: It will interfere with the United States by taking up those water rights, because many of these little rivers like the Bitter Rfiot. the Teton and Marias, from Gallatin and others can be completely appropriated by the companies before either the state or the United States could get a chance to outline any policy in this matter. Now, the proposition of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Sargent, was treated rather calmly about having a survey. I think the Legislature ought to have all the information on this subject possible before it acts and after United States has made these surveys, our people will have the informa- tion derived from that source, and it will give our future legislators all the information that they desire upon this question. Mr. President, I hope I am not unnecessarily importunate. It is because I regard this as a dangerous experiment that 1 stand here against friends who are as dear to me as any in this convention, and whose convictions are strong on the other side and opposed to it. T find that the gentlemen from the agricul- tural counties are divided upon it — clearly divided upon it. I talked with a gentleman last night who represented farmers in the very oldest and first settled valleys in this Territory- and he told me thev were against it. bm PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES And as the agricultural people are not united in tavoi- rd' this prciprisitiou and as there is a division on it, why not let us so fix it that future legisla- tors can amend it and not shut them off by the action of this convention -not approaching the matter here now, if the Governomenf of the United States does grant these lands for reservoirs — if they come on and make these reservoirs, shall we turn over the results and the money of the whole people of the United States to any kind of person or corporation for his own gain. It seems to mo that the argument made by my friend is right against the proposition that he would wish to have incorporated in this constitution. The very fact that the Government has taken hold of this matter — the very fact that a liberal spirit — (interrupted.' Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I think if the gentleman will allow me, that he is entirely out of the line of this section that was adopted. I infer from his argument that he expects men to come out here and inaugurate a system of irrigation and use the water of these smaller streams and the various streams throughout tlie country. I do not contemplate that this is the object of this matter, the authorities simply make a beginning to demonstrate that the reservoiring or the system of sewering water — the sewerage system is practicable and will induce people to combine in inaugurating a system of sewage water. iVIr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I think I understand the reason of it, Mr. Chairman. The United States has a vast lot of land here that belongs to the United States. For years and years that land has been characterized as valueless — as of no value to the Government. Now, the Government, of the United States, like any other sensible proprietor of property, wants to find out if that land is really valuable or if by any system or means it can be made valuable, and, Mr. Chairman, it is demon- strated to the satisfaction of Congress that it can be made valuable. What will be the next step of the Government of the United States? We have here millions of acres, that belong to us. We can get no revenue from them; there are no settlers upon them. Will it pay us to make a small expenditure, a small outlay in order that we may derive a large revenue from all this property? That will be the next question that will present itself to the Congress of Ihe United States, and may we not. hope that the practicable, broad and wise mintis there will meet it with a libei'al answer? Or, suppose they choose not to do it themselves? Suppose they say to this state, here, you take these Government lands. The Government will be the gainer if you populate them--if you raise crops and plant orchards and build houses on them: now, you take these arid lands: we will transmit them to you by a bill: in that bill we will put certain restrictions upon them so that you can never waste them or throw them away, or give them away to anybody, and we will allow you to take these lands and pledge the revenues that you derive from them to the support of canals, to be under state management and state control. And I undertake to say that such a system of irrigation covering all the valleys of this Territory — so comprehensive that, it is beyond the conception of the imagination of gentlemen who have not thought much about it, so wise that it will do justice to everybody under it, so economicjil that every farmer and settler can profit by it, not only now, lint for all time — can be carried out without any expense to the state or without its becoming obligated for any kind of indebtedness except that which the land irrigated will pay. Rut whether this be so or not, whether my irleas will be correct or not — whether this be just my dreams as the dreams of other gentlemen havi' pictured it — I do not undertake to say, and you gentlemen must know it. that this whole question is out of place here, and that we should relegair it to the Legis- latui'o and provide that the coniing Legislature should deal with it. Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: I am profoundly surprised that such morbid sensitiveness should be developed at this particular time tending towards legislation. It seems to me that before Arlicl(> No. D was passed, this morbid sensitiveness had not develo]ied itself, and I nuist say right here that outside of the few gentlemen from the agricultural districts who are honestly and conscientiously opposed to it at this moment on material prounds, there are certain genll(Mnen from the mining sections who seem to oppose it on selfish grounds. .\nd. further, coming from an agi'icultvu'al section, I supported them in their efforts on behalf of the article that just passed in relation to mines, and I say right here in this convention, and I identify nn'n who sliowed nie to the contrary, that mining property is not, bearing its proportion of taxation. Now, it seems to me, that if the representatives of llie mining districts have secured GONSTITU'LIONAI. CONVENTION 1889 561 this just and wise provision that they should have the courtesy and •liberality to support this measure providing for means by which the lands that are now arid and of no use to the country shall become valuable to the state. Now. the dan.i^er.s that would follow this provision have been declared in very flowery language. \\'hy, if our forefathers in times past saw fit to subsidize the building of railroads that would develop our country, why should wo not help the building of any other industry that will develop our country. I venture to say that the Northern Pacific Railroad, when it was first built in this country, had a more absolute control over the destinies of these people than any ditch or any 100 ditches ever built in Montana will e\er receive. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: Would you be in favor of the Gov- ernment, or the state, or the county subsidizing any railroad now? Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: No, I would not, because I think they have outlived their usefulness, but there was a time when it was only fit and proper and there is a time today when it is aniy fit and proper to en- coiu-age tliese irrigating ditches. And. further, it has been said here that it exempts a certain class of property, and that it is a tiangerous precedent to establish. I think that it will be admitted by anyone that the large increase in taxable property which will necessarily follow the inaugura- tion nf this system refutes any argument that can be adduced in that direction. Now, I do not wish to say anything that is disparaging to mining: coming, as I do. from an agricultural section. 1 look upon all the industries in the Territory of Montana with liberality and due regard, and I would not lend my vote or my voice to anything that might restrict or limit the growth of any industry. What I believe is that if there is an industry witihin the Territorv of Montana that deserves the consideration of this Territory, it is the agricultural interests. Tf there is one industry that is promin(Mit. that tends to develop and ennoble mankind., it, is agriculture. It is only when mankind assimies the cultivation of agricul- ture and leaves off the garb of the savage, that he tends in a civilized direction. You have today a mining plant that is blooming in prosperity. Everything is rustle and bustle around and you are making money and everybody is imbued with the zeal inspired from the desire to accumulate money. Ten years hence, it is. perhaps, out of existence and it only lives in the memory of the men. It is not so with agriculture. The very fields that fed the hosts of Hannibal are today filling the granaries of that country as they were eighteen hundred or twenty-two hundred years ago. The Island of Sicily, although it is not as fertile today as it was in the early days of history, is still going through the routine of producing and sending its supplies into the granaries of Italy. It seems to me that if we give this question due consideration, that certain men of the mining countries who have gained their proposition — have passed it beyond the danger of being recalled — should at least give this a favorable considera- tion. There may be some dangers connected with it. In fact. I do not think there is any question of importance that has been introduced in this country but there are some dangers connected with it, and I think this argument is far-fetched and is a forced argument: and that it is an argimieni made here to conceal other and ulterior motives. .\nd although the section that T represent will not he materially affected in this direetion, I would like to see the motion passed, as I believe it will be of great advan- tage to other agricultural portions of Montana. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: I should have been perfectly willing to have allowed this proposition to pass without any comment on my part if it had not appeared to me to have been a misstatement and misrepresenta- 'ion of both its provisions that has been so persistently made, that it looks as if it were made purposely. All that I desire for this proposition, so fai' as I am responsible for i*, is a fair considerati(m of the bounds iti involves, without any oratory or rant about matters that have no connec- tion with it. What i< the proposition contained here? Does it give to any corporation or to an>' person an inch or a drop of water that they do not have without it? Does it give to any person or any corporation a monopoly or an opportunity of monopolizing water that they do not have without it? Point it out to me. if it does? Where is it? It provides nothing whatever in regard lo the appropriation of water. It leaves that .iust exactly where it stands now and where it always has stood under the Inws of this Territory and under the rules and decisions of the courts. What is the use, then of gentlemen coming her and talking about monop- oly and giving corporations the right of landlordism and rack-rent? What 562 PHOCKKL)l.\(i.S AM) I)I;HATKS has tliafi h'ul, 1,1) ilii with lln' pruposilinn. Why, a man ranmil lakr au iucti ol' water that he cijuhJ not take willmut, il. It gives iin man a right that is not open to everyboiiy; it gives no eorpoi-ation a privilege lliat will not be open to anyone in existence now or that will liereafter be created. What then, is the object of this pi-ovision when you throw aside all this talk that has nothing to do with it and conic dowii to a sensible considera- tion lit it. II is to encourage, so tar as we can. soniiilhing Ihal is admit- tedly needed in this counti'y — that is the distribution of water over this <;ountry by means of iri'igation ditches. We give to no man or corporation which may go into that business a single privilege: on the contrary, we restrict him. To say tliat this is lor the benefit of corporations — when it gives them no right whatever and only gives them a certain privilege when they comply with certain conditions which will be more favorable lo the people than to the corporations, — it seems to me is useless chatter. If we want irrigation we should encourage it so far as we reasonably can. As has been well said here, the small streams of the country have been taken up. Something more now is required. The thing has got to be gone into on a large and expensive scale, and it is because it is beyond the reach of single individual enterprise, that it seems proper to encourage those lo some extent who are willing to invest their capital in such enterprises. Now. gentlemen talk about the United States taking hold of this thing. If the United States ever takes hold of it in 10 years, it will be soonei' than it does anything else. But that would not interfere with the United States or the state. If it would, I would like to have it pointed out. It interferes with nothing of that kind: it is only intended to give encourage- ment to a certain extent to persons who ai'e willing to invest their money in the large enterprises which are now required for irrigation, and in return for that will require of them limitations and certain conditons, which, instead of giving them privileges, are nothing but restrictions. We i-eqiiire of them obedience to the iirovisions of the constitution: that is all that we want of them. W'e give them this privilege only upon condi- tion that they comply with those restrictions. If they do not choose to comply with them, why, let them go on without complying with them and let their property go on and be sub.ject to taxation as other properly is. Now, take the large enterprise in digging a canal. It is uncertain at the (commencement w'hether it will be a success: it is an experiment. There- fore, it would be an object to them until, at least, it w'as finished a?id comiileted, in order that they might be able to judge how profitable an enterprise it might be — it would be an advantage to them to be exempted from taxation. But, when it came to profits, if it comes within this law, then it would have to pay the state what it was able to pay according to its earnings. Now, the gentleman from Silver Bow, who argued this question, says that all the taxes would fall upon the land, ^^'by. that seems to be a curious argument. He says, here is a ditch that makes the land worth •'i>20 or -^iO an acre. He says all that falls upon the land. The laxafion does not fall simply upon the land. The net proceeds of the ditch must increase and how can you increase the value of that land with- out increasing the very medium through which il obtained its \alue? \ow. the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke talks about putting ijower in tie- hands of corporations to take all this water and to enforce paymi'iil of water rates and to eject tenants and to iiractically own the land. Hi- does not go far enough in his argument, lie ought to be opposed to all ditches and all canals and all flumes. How does this affect the case in any one way or the other? Does this give any power of collecting I'ent? Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I am opposed to offering a premium to engage in the business. .Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow; If it is as he says, what has il to do with this matter, because this matter does not affect that one way or thi> othcM-. This does not enable a ditch company to collect its rent. The gentleman's argument goes too far. II would go to the extent that we should not dig any canals or any large ditches at all. because we might run into Inndloril- ism and cause oppression upon the agricultural interests. Well, now. it is a matter that may be considered, but not at all in connection with this provision. .\s I said before. Mr. President. — because T do not intend to detain the convention loniri'i'. — I want a consideration of th(> proposition upon its merits — not mixed u|i with all this eloquence and talk about matlei-s that have nothing to do with it. This proposition is just the proposition which il is claimed will ha\e the effect of increasing the number of canals and ditches that are constructed, thereby opening lands CONSTITUTIONAI. CONVENTION 1889 563 to cultivation and sottienient— and to ttiat extent it will be a benefit to the country. If the corporations choose to take advantage of his provi- sion, then we say. you must comply with the reciuirements of the law. If they do not choose to conform with the law. then they can go without its benefit, and they must pay taxes upon their lands and property just as if no such provision was in existence. As 1 said before, all these matters that are mixed up in this proposilion have notliing whatever to do with it, because it does not give a man the right to claim a single drop of water that he would not have without it. It only encourages a person or a corporation and gives him the privilege of putting it under the control of the people, or if he does not. then his ditch property stands on the same basis of taxation as any other. Mr. Gibson, of Cascade: I helie\e in confining this question to its merits. I do not believe in indulging in violi'nt language at all in the matter. I believe the question is just simply this: is it necessary to give a boims to corporations for establishing irrigating canals, etc.. in this state"? But I think the question is to be narrowed and simmered down to that proposition — it is necessary to grant bonuses to corporations of this char- acter in Montana? I belie^•e it has been conceded upon this floor that no bonus has been granted to any system or any corporation whatever and there has been no intention to offer any except for this. Now, I claim, Mr. President, that there is capital in the United States, and if not in the United States, in London, ready to be embarked in this enterprise. If I am correctly informed the great irrigating ditches of California and Colorado and other territories have been carried out by capital from New York and London. I cannot understand why it should not be the same in this territory. I think it was Professor .\dams who said that Mon(ana had all of the water that could be conducted over the soil to the best of advantage, and I believe that this soil of Montana is better and more pro- ductive than the soil of any other of the territories. I do not think there is any question about this, and I think it is well understood. Now, I believe, as I have stated, that there is plenty of money waiting to be embarked in this enterprise. I have only to tell you, gentlemen, that down in Northern Montana already a great many of those streams have been taken uri to irrigate the country between the Teton and the Missouri Rivers. \\'hy did these men go into the enterprise if they thought it was necessary for their property to be exempt. There are other canals that have been taken up in that section of the country. I say there is ample capital to be embarked in this great enterprise in Montana. The country is full of cheap money. There is no nation on the face of the earth today, in my opinion, that is as well prepared to undertake this great enterprise as the people of the United States, and I do not believe that they would hesitate to take hold of this enterprise. There is one feature of ttiis canal system, this irrigation system, which will ronunend itself to capitalist'^, and that is the permanency of that kind of investment. You. Mr. Presi- dent, may invest money in mines. Those mines after a while are mined out. The products of the mountains will finally yield up themselves, but money invested in these ditehes becomes more valuable day by day and year by year, and if the investors in this kind of property do not receive the large income at first which they would like to. the future assures them of large returns for their capital. It is the most permanent kind of property that I know of in the Territory of Montana, and, if I had surplus money to invest. I would put it sooner in that class of property than any other I know of in Montana. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: The gentleman who has just taken his seat bases his remarks upon the fact that this constitutional convention has already adopted a provision that the water rentals shall be regulated by the County Commissioners of Ihf several counties. Now. there at once, it seems to me. is objection to gentlemen, whether in this Territory or from New York or London, investing their money to any extent, because it is beyond their control as soon as they do ii. Now. you have done that already. There is a blow to the irrigation projecis of this slate, by saying that the money that miaht b^' invested here in canals for the distribution of water over this Territory shall be within the control of County (Com- missioners; and, on the other hand, is the offset, that there shall be no encouragement at all. Now, those canals that have been built were built without any such constitutional pro^ision as that. Let me tell you that there is no provision in this constitution, nor can there be, restricting, for instance, the rates— the tariff rates — of the .Northern Pacific Railroad 504 I'HOCKKDl.NdS AM) I )KHATES < '.iiiii|iiili\ : (ir ll]i' passriiyci' lairs (H llir XiiiIIhtii I'acilif Uailmad (inm- paiiy. Thai is beyond llie ('(Jiilrdl nT I his I'luistitutiiiii ami it is hi'voml Ihi' ciiiitrni.oi' tile stall' bt'caiisr tlirrr is a cliarlri' grauti'il li\ llii' L'uileil Slates and il is beyond oui' conlrol. And so it is with ail ol Ihese cor- lioralions, these great transportation eonipanies, with these jireal common eai'i'iers. There is no restriction upon their right to I'cgulate rates: but upon Ihis one great question tliat all'ecis (he people of the state i\\' Montana I think more than any other one question, you start out with the proijo- sition in the constitution that the money invested in tliesc large canals is witliin the control (jf tlie County Commissioners oi' within the control of the regulation laws of Montana and not of the peoijli' that, invest their inoney in them. Now. that is a singular spirit of inducement to capital to come from London or New Vork here and build your canals; but as a spirit of offset to thai, I think that we should provide tliat these canals should pay taxes upon their income. Now, it seems to me. tliat the argu- ment of the gentleman from Silver Bow was to the effect that they nevei' would pay anything. He said they would never pay taxes at all: that if that was tiie case there wxjuld never be any net profit on their income: bul if there ever is any great profit in any of these great monopolies that we have heard gentlemen talking about, then that profit is subject to taxation, and until tliei'e is a profit. I say that there is no encouragement. T want to say here that there is not one particle of difference between this proposition and the proposition thai has already been introduced into this constitution for tlie taxation ot mines. They stand exactly upon the same footing. Do yon mean to say to me thaf the mining interests of this country are of more value than the agricultural interests? Tt has been well said that these mines will in time pan out. and only the recollection of those places will remain, whereas, on the other hand, if you reclaim a piece of land and get the water upon it. "it is a thing of beauty and joy forever": it never peters out. Now, f any gentleman can point out the difference between this [irovision and that by which you propose to tax. mines. T would like to have that distinction pointed out. for it is impossible for nie to see it. It is not. as has been supposed by- some gentlemen here, that this is for the exemption from taxation of tho«e large ditches. ITiey are all treated alike: it does not make any difference whether the ditch is taken out for the sale of water or not. it is for the distribution of water, for any useful purpose for which the water is put, and it protects all alike. It protects a half dozen farmers who combine to take out water and bring it upon their land and could protect one hundred farmers if necessary. Now, down in our country we have a cor- poration— a corporation of farmers — not capitalists, but farmers — who have taken out a large ditch and they found it necessary to become a corporation in order to manage their affairs: and I say they are entitled to encouragement. They have thousands of inches of'water under their conlrol in this section, and it is intended to treat all alike, to foster these ditches whether they are great or small. Rut the proposition for takinc our ditches hereafter will be on a larger scale than ever before, because these small proprietors haxc done all they can. Now, tln^ (juestion is ns to this large tract of land, which can only be reached by comliinations. either of farmers or by others combining their forces in corporations, — it makes no difference. In oi'der to reach this water, it will b(> necessary to have large canals that will be built at great expense, and th(>re is no such thing as a corporation undertaking that work to become a monopoly, or s(|ueezing the life out of the farmer, because there stands the law and the constitution and the Board of County Commissioners to see that no such thing is done. Mr. Burleigh, of Cusler: I expect to vote upon this question when it conies up. and, as is well known pei'liai)s by this convention. I have opposed from the begimiing strongly the putting of any provision into this constitution which savored of legislation, so far as I was able to .judge. I have also advocaled here an absolute system of irrigation which will enable us to develop the resources of o>ir soil from an agricnltiu-al point of view, and it may look to some as though, while I look upoi\ Ihis amendment here as savoring very strongly of lr>gislation, that I should vote, and I shall vote upon it. if compelled to meet the mallei' here. There are two bulls staring me in the face: one. the danger of legislatin'-' unduly in our conslitulion, and the other is of striking a death blow to tin' interest which T bi'lieve is absolutely essential to the development of this slate and making it worth while for a man to live here. Now. I want to CUNSTITLi'IOXAL CO.WEMIO.N 18811 5C5 state a few facts which have come to my knowledge in this matter. There are in Custer I'.oimty four gentlemen, some of whom were known in this fiiunlry before they came here, who emljarked in aRriculture. and i never saw any better agriculturists in any country in my life. One of these men lives on the upper end of the Oallatin Bottom — John C. Gray, who was formerly sheriff of Gallatin County. The next is Mr. Higgins. who formerly lived in Missoula. The ne.xt is James Simpson, who went there many years ago, and the ne.xt is John somebody .\11 four of those men stand as well in Custer County as any men in any other county in this Territory. They went there as practical agriculturists and every one of those men have told me that had it no! been for their horses and Iheir stock that ihey would be paupers today. 'I^hey believed, from the beauti- ful character of the soil and the climate, that, they could sow their seed in the ground and produce and increase, but the result has been that where Ihey have raised a moderate crop once in three or four years and a monstrous crop once in six years, the balance of the time they have failed — utterly failed, in many instances — and the result has been that the increase has not ln^en sufficient to keep them and tlieir families alive, and they have grown poor with this system of agriculture. Mr. Simpson, and perhaps Mr. Higgins, thought to remedy this evil two or three years ago. by sending east and getting machinery to bore artesian wells, for the purpose of irrigating the soil. They failed in that and did not succeed in raising water enough from the bowels of the earth to irrigate any con- siderable amount of gravel. The result was a total failure, and unless there is some other system adopted, not only have we got to abandon agri- culture, but we have to abandon stock raising, and we have got to leave the lower counties and go into some other part of the country to secure means of livlihood. .Now, in explaining myself in this way, I regard myself as having to take the choice of two evils, and while this measure does not suit me exactly — I mean the amendment which was offered yesterday by Judge Dixon and which has been considi'red here by the convention— I shall vote for it; and if that fails, I shall offer an amendment something like this: "All ditches, flumes, canals and other means used expressly for the purpose of irrigation may be exempted from taxation: provided, however, that the Legislative Assembly, shall have the power to regulate the rates for all water used in irrigating purposes," Xow, while I am unwilling to surrender this whole thing and subject the people here to thn dangers which have been so eloquently and perhaps truthfully depicted by my friend from Cascade 'Mr, Collins , it will protect us against those evils, if they really exist, and certainly cannot be objectionable to iho?p who want to turn (his thing over to ttie Legislature to control, and willi these remai'ks I shall cease to consume the time of the convention. Tlie Chair slated the tiuestion. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone, called for the ayes and nays. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would like to say a few words. I would like to state again that in my opinion the basis of this proposition before us is wrong. That in my opinion the argument made upon this proposi- tion by Mr. Dixon. Mr. Toole and Mr. Knowles is upon a wrong hypothesi.';. -Xow. I claim that if you pass this proposition, that you will give a pre- mium to parties who go into the ditch business exclusively for sale and that you will give no benefit whatever, directly or indirectly, to the farm- ers or to anyone else who comes into the business for the purpose of using water themselves. You give this preniium. and it is a large pre- mium. This is a gi-eal subsidy to the man who invests his money in it as a business enterprise, but it gives not one cent to the farmer who takes his little ditch upon his land, nor one copper to the dozen or twenty or fifty farmers who combine together to get it upon their lands and use it exclusively u£On their lands. Instead of that, you compel the farmer or the stockgrower to increase his taxes. Every inch of water that is brought out upon a farm adds to the value of it,' and the assessor places that assessed value upon his list. Every farmer that is on the line of a ditch., as was well said by the gentleman from Silver Bow 'Mr. Staplet«nK controlled by these corporations, adds to the value of his farm five-fold! ten-fold or it may be one hundred-fold, and the man who o\\tis that ditch does not help pay one cent of the fax on that increase. The man who takes up that land and makes it valuable pays every cent. Now. that cannot be denied. It is a fact. Y"ou may levy taxes upon the man who. by the sweat of his brow, is trying to make a living, and vou take (axes off of the man who sells the water that makes the land" valuabb-. per- 566 PROCEEDINGS Ai\0 DEBATES petually; not for a day nor for a year, but forever. Now. gentlemen aie wrong in their argument wtien they state that this proposition is of equal benefit to all interests and that it bears equally upon all persons. It is not a fact, and if you will read this proposition that is here described you will see it. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I v^'Wuld like to ask you a question. Whether or not, "for the .sale, rental, distribution or other beneficial use of the water" does not mean the individual water taken out by the individual farmer? Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Certainly it must, but at the same time that ditch is not taxed — the net proceeds are not taxed, but the value of that ditch is placed on the value of their lands and assessed. If the land is only worth a dollar and a quarter at first, it might be worth $20 an acre when it is irrigated. The ditch may not be taxed and will not be taxed, but the land will be taxed at s*'20 an acre. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Where is a combination of farmers, 10, 20. 30. 40 or 50 or any other number — they fake out valuable ditches and construct large reser- voirs— if those parties would not be benefited by the law? Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis iS: Clarke: Certainly, this combination of farmers would be benefited — benefited immensely, too. But my proposition is that I hey would be compelled to pay five-fold, fen-told and perhaps fwenty-fold more taxes than they would today and the men who invest the money in the ditch for the purpose of selling that water increases the value of the farm that is occupied under it and does not increase the revenue of the State one single dollar, Mr. Bickford of Missoula: He does if he gets anything for the water — if he gets anything in return for his capital invested, will not the state get its proportionate share of that money? Mr. Collins of Cascade: Certainly, if he gets anything, he is taxed, and the State gets its share of that. Mr. Eaton of Park: Not in the case of a non-resident. Mr. Collins of Cascade: Probably not in the case of a non-resident, as was argued yesterday, the net proceeds will be very seldom seen and the revenues from the net proceeds will be very seldom heai'd of. Now, this matter should not be put into our constitution because if it should happen to be a great proposition, as undoubtedly it is, and should happen to be that we are not moving in the right direction and in the interests of thr- people, there is no way or manner of changing it so far as great corpora- tions and great ditches, that we are now building, or that will be built almost before this constitution is adopted, are concerned. It will be a per- petual contract with those parties, and if seems to me it is giving them a wonderful amount of power not only for the purpose of getting money, but over all the people in the country in which this property is situated. Now. another thing and I am done. Certainly corporations and persons now have the privilege of going (ud, to the streams of this territory and taking lliem up--appro|iriafing th(Mu: but if you do not put a premium upon this busi- ness of taking up water by corporations: there will he less of it. If you put a premium upon this matter the people will combine together and ft>rm corporations and go out into the highways and buy up all tlie wntiT in Mon- tana. Mr. Cooper of (iailatin: Will the gentleman permit me. They will have to build a ditch. They cannot bold an appropriation of water twenty days. Mr. Collins of (inscade: Certainly: and they will take out the wnler. There is a great deal of new country in our section. Now, I claim that if you allow a corporation to take this water out, that a bona fide settbM' who comes after him and wants to settle iipon a piece of land cannot get an inch of water. He must buy it. Hundreds and thousands and lens of thousands of settler's below that stream cannot get enough water for do- mestic purposes unless they buy it. Mi-. Middleton of Custer: Does this proposition give a ditch company any watei' rights tliat they have not at the pi-esent time? Mr. Collins of Cascade; It gives to every ditch company in Montana a big premium to go out and take iqi water. It gives them an immensr- subsidy. They have been doing this thing for twenty yeai's in the coun- ties of Montana without this subsidy: they have taken out big ditches in our section of country: they have taken up ditches in the county that the gentleman lives in: I say that without this subsidy they will i-ontinue to CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 567 take up ditches and that the ditches will not be owaied by immense corpor- ations, but by comparatively small corporations and individuals. But if vou give this big subsidy or premivun amounting to *=150,000, upon a ditch "that is worth one half million of dollars: nearly 8150.()(X) a year— you are voting away something which you are not In-re for the purpose of doing and something which you have not the power to do. and something that you should not do. Mr. Callaway of .Madison: As an illustration of how this proposition might work, as the gentleman from Cascade has said that it encourages monopolists. I want to call attention to one condition of things in Beaver- head and Madison counties. Twenty-five years ago perhaps a large class of settlers were located on the lower end of Beaverhead river: they ap- propriated the waters of the river and have contiuned up to this year to use those waters. Two or three years ago some companies formed — some corporations — near the head of that river about, a mile from Ryan Creek and they took out of the river about 30 miles above the mouth of th^ river three big canals: and it is a fact that when I came over here, Ipaving home I think on the 2nd day of July, that the Beaverhead river was absolutely as drv as the streets of this city for 1.3 miles above the mouth of that river. N(W. by the operation of those corporations they have left all the people bclnw without enough water for their stock or their homes. Gentlemen. ! say the people below have no remedy. They have been discussing this wIioIp proposition for months. They have raised money to go and consult lawyers. There are a large number of people there, and for one-half of the entire length of that valley, from which the water is taken out, they have no resources. It is a proposition that has not been settled yet as to what remedy they may find. Now as the gentleman from Cascade has said. I am not one to put a premium upon stealth of that kind — upon combina- tions of capital, to rob the citizens. .\s usual where the«e combinations are made, the individual citizens and farmers have practically no remedy. Then I sav why let the big fish eat up the little ones. And. Mr. President, without takingup the time of this convention I want to say here now, that I am opposed to all exemptions of any property from taxation. I believe that every man that holds a dollar's worth of taxable property that can be assessed— that the assessor can estimate the value of. should pay equally with other men. The system is wrong. The proposition is incorrect. It is breaking down the very fundamental principle of our government when you propose to make one man pay taxes and allow the other to go free: when one man owns property to say that he .shall have a privilege that anotiier man has not. The objection that I have is that wnen you create these corporations — when you give them the benefit of this system, you are treating them better and giving tliem more privilege than you do some- body else. Now. so far as the proposition is concerned in Section 3 as to laying down a rule for taxation of mines. I know it is a fact. Mr. Presi- dent, and I believe every gentleman in this convention knows it as well as I do. that so far as net proceeds of mines in Montana are concerned, they are nothing compared with what the net proceeds of these ditch properties will be. Tiiere is a fui'ther proposition there, and that is that the net pro- ceeds of mines are only paid h\ the successful ones, who can afford to pay. But I want to lay downi this proposition to the convention that the poor miner and the man who has faith in his business, derive some benefit from it. But. as an illustration of the general working of this system I want to say that a few months ago I was engaged in a law suit in Virginia City and a gentleman whom I knew dealt largely in mines was being cross-examined. The question was upon what the net proceeds of a certain mine were. He testified upon cross-examination upon the stand that he had made about ■?in.OOO. in net proceeds. I knew that man realized more than that and I told him so. and I asked him how he accounted for if. \yhy, I charge the bal- ance for my salary as superintendent of my own mine, said he. That is the practical explanation of it. anil when you put this proposition in. as to the net proceeds of these ditches and canals, there will be very little ever gotten out of it. There is no provision in this article which says that the salaries of officers shall not be accounted for and the whole thing, so far as that proposition is concerned, is simply null and void. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I should like to ask at this time, whether a substitute is in order? The President: Yes. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: 1 desire to offer the following as a substi- tute to Secticii 4. 568 PROCEEUINGS ANJJ DEBATES Till' I'l'i'siilciit : The gi'iitli'iiiaii I'nHii (ialhilin (iffers as suhslitiile In tlif sectinii. TliP Clerk I'oad as follows: "Taxation. Section il. 'i'lie Legislative Assembly shall he and it is empuwered to provide the mainirr of assessment and prescribe rules for (he deterniinalion of values for taxation of all property except as in this constitution otherwise provided." Mr. Harfnian, of Gallatin: I move the adoption of the substitute. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Callaway: I would like to ask as a point of order if when a motion i.-^ pending for an imlefinile po.slponernent, if an amendment is in order? Th(! President: The miitiou to amend pri'cedes the motion lo indefin- ileiy postpone. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would ask a favor: that the Chair i-i-consider its decision. The motion to postpone is one of the very highest considera- tion. The President: I w-ould refer the gentleman to our own ruh's which govern this matter. "When a question is under debate no motion shall be received except first (o adjourn, second to lay on llie talde, third, for the previous question, fourth, to postpone to a certain day, fifth to conunit to a standing commitfee, sixth, to select a committee, seventh, to amend, eighth, to postpone indefinitely: and these several motions shall have pi-e- cedence in the order in which they stand arranged," Ttie motion to amend takes precedence to indefinitely postpone, and the n>otion to indefinitely postpone is the lowest in the order of motions. Tlie question is on thi» mo- tion to adopt a substitute for the gi-ntleman fi'OTn (iallatin. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I hope tlial substitute will lie voted down. I will not say any more. Mr. Collins of Cascade: t call for the rcadini,' of the substitute. The Clerk read the same. Mr. Collins of Cascade: That I think will be very satisfactory. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: I think that ground is covered by Section 1 of Proposition 27. "But the necessary revenue for (he supiiort and main- tenance of the state shall be provided by the Legislative .Assembly." I think that covers the ground. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I move fo lay the amendment on tin' lahli\ The motion was seconded. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: T hope that will not prevail. That you cai'ry the original motion with it. Mr President: The question is upon the motion of the gentleman to lay upon the table. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I rise to a preliminary inquiry. If tlie motion to lav this amendment on the table prevails, will it carrv the whole matter with it' The President: Ft carries the original motion with il. The ayes and nays w-ere called for. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I imderstand the ruling of the Cliair to lie that if this suhslitule was laiil upon the table that it carries tlir' oi'iginal proposition with it. Mr. .1. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I desii-e to cra\e a ]ii-eliminary in- quiry. T did not hear what was said. Is this the amendmeid offered by Mr. Harfman or the amendment offered by Mr. Dixon? The President: The amendment offered by !\fr. Hartman of Gallatin. Mr. .T. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: But if that motion prevails it car- ries the proposition with if. The President: Tf thei'e be no objection to the ay(>s anil nays, the same will be entered upon the minutes. The Clerk read the roll. The vote stood as follows: .'\yes: Aiken, lireen. BrowTie, Buford. Burns, .\. F.; Burns. A. J.: Callaway. Collins. Craven. Dyei'. Eaton, Fields, Gibson, Gillette, Graves. Hammond. Hart- man. Haskell, Hershtield. Hickman, HoLian, .Toy. Kenneily. Kniiipenberu. Maginnis, Mayger, Parberry, Reek. Rot wilt. Sai'genf. Staiileton. \\'ai'i-en, \\'afson. Witter. Mr. President— 35. Nays: Bickford. Bullard, Burleigh, Burns, K.: CaMwi'll. Cai'penter. Cauby, Chessman. Conrad, Cooper, Courtney. Dixon. Dui'fee. (laylord. (iod- dard. Hatch. Hobson. .Toyes. Kanouse, Knowles. Kohrs. T^oml. Luce, Marrion. Marshall. McAdoW, Middleton, Mitchell, Muth. Mvers, Ramsdell. Hobinson. Schmidt, Toole, .Jos. K.: Toole, .L R.: Whitehill. Winston— .'n. Absent: Bra/.lelon. Hickards. Webster— 3. CONiSllTL TIONAL CONVENTION 1889 569 The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to lay on the table lost. (Applause.^ The President: The question now i-; upon the adoption ol the substi- tute of the gentleman from Gallatin. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I offer an auaendment. The President: The gentleman from Cascade offers an amendment. The Clerk reads as follows: At the end of Section 4. add "'Provided that till? land which is irrigated by such ditch shall also be subject to ta.xation on its net proceeds as may be provided by law."" .Mr. Middleton of Custer: 1 rise to a point of order. There is an ainendment to the propositidn under consideration. Now. this amendment is nut an amendment to that amendment. Consequently it is an amendment til the original prnpositiiui and is certainly not in order, it not being an amendment to tin' amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin. The President: The amendment of the gentleman from Gallatin is a substitute. Mr. Collins ol' Cascade: I withdraw my amendment until the proposi- tion of the gentleman from Gallatin is voted upon. .Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis >& t'.larke: I move the previous question on the section and all pending amendments. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I believe I have the floor. The President: The gentleman from Cascade has the floor. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: I only withdrew my amendment for the pur- pose of allowing the action of the amendment of the gentleman from Galla- tin. If there is a disposition here to gag the convention then certainly I will not withdraw the amendment, but will insist upon its being acted ii|)on. and after fhalt we can act upon he amendment of the gentleman from (iailatin. But it seems to me that this proposition is before the convention and certainly no one has tried to a[iiend it or perfect it. The proposition all day has been to indefinitely postpone. There has not been a single effort made to perfect this amendment, and I will leave it to the conscience of any man if there is no( room to jierfect it. It is the right of any member of this convention to try to perfect any section and it is a right that should not be infringed upon even by the members of the convention doing some- thing. I have taken up as little of the time of this convention as many of the members of the floor and I have the prerogative and the right to offer amendments to this matter and I suppose to do it; and furthermore I think it is very little and very small on the part of any members of this conven- tion to try to cut off that right that I have. If this thing is carried Mr. President. I am perfectly satisfied: but I want it carried fairly and we want to amend it before it goes into our constitution. I offer those amendments in [lerfect fairness and in perfect sincerity. The President: There has been a question raised as the precedence of these motions. The Chair will state that in Jefferson's Manual, page 1.58 and a copy of which the Chair holds in his hands, it reads. "In like r:.nnner, if it is proposed to amend by striking out a paragraph the friends of the paragraph are first to make it as perfect as they can by amend- ments before the question is put to strike it out." That is the rule that the Chair has been acting under. The Chair desires to dn only what is fair, but it requires that the rules be observed The Clerk read the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins for the information of the convention. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I know we are getting tired of so much water here, but I cannot see why it is not as fair for one as it is for the other. If the corporations shall have the right to own the water — the exclusive right when they have taken all out of the stream, to the water and only pay taxes upon the net proceeds of their property, why in the name of jus- tice cannot a man who is frying to make a living by the sweat of his brow and who puts in his whole years hard labor and pays taxes upon that whether he makes a dollar oi not — why not let him pay only on the net proceeds? I do not see why if a man has a million dollars he should not pay his full pro rata of taxes and the other man who has five hun- dred dollars and has worked hard all the year round and has not made a dollar why he should contribute to the man who has the control of his property. I am in favor of exempting one if you exempt the other. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Now. that is just: that is proper: it seems to me a fair illustration of the manner in which this thing has been considered all along. The gentleman asks if a corporation owning a million dollars is pernutted to pay taxes only on the net proceeds of 570 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Iho water, what is tin' I'eason lliat man who proiJurc.s soinclhiuj-' on the land should not, have the same privilege. Xow, what Mr. Collins proposes to do by his amendment is to say that he shall pay on the net proceeds, hut he does not go further and say that the proposition is — that the Board of County Commissioners shall have the right to regulate the prices of what is raised on this farm. If he does, tlien lie suhjects himself to the same re- strictions and liinitali(Mis that are sought to be put on the water, and that is another different matter. It is not similar in any respect. Mr. Schmidt of Sihcr Bow sent up an amendment. The President: The question now is upon the question of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Schmidt of Silver Bow: I desire to have my amendment read for information. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers an amendment that is out of order at present but will be considered in due time. It will be read by the Clerk for information. The Clerk read as follows: "Strike out in line 2 of section i, the worris "or any other benficial use of water" and insei-t the words, 'all walei- for irrigating purposes' so as to read, 'for the sale, rental and distribution of water for irrigating purposes'." The President: The question now is upon the amendment of the gen- tleman from Cascade. 'I'lie Chair put the question on the amendment of the senllemaii froiri Cascade, and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. 'i'he PresidiMit: 'l"he question now is upon the amendment offered by tile gentleman from Silver Bow (Mi-. Schmidt' to the original section. The motion was seconded. 'I'he Chair put the question on the motion of tiie gent^Mnan from Sil- vei' Bow (Mr. Schmidt' and a \ote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Mayger. of Lewis & Clarke: I have an amendment which I desire to offer. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Mayger) offers the following amendment which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: "Amend Section i by striking out of line 2, the word 'shall" and insert the word, 'may.'"" The motion was seconded. 'I'he Chaii put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. .Maygeri and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The question now is on the substitute offered by the gentleman from Gallatin iMr. Hartmian.^ The Clerk read the said substitute as follows: Section 4. The Leg- islali\e ,\.'.semhly shall be and it is empowi'i'ed to pro\'idi> a manner nl' as- sessment and prescribe rules tor the determination of values for the ta-xa- tion of property except in this constitution otherwise provided. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I call for the ayes and nays on the substitute of the gentleman. Tlie President: If there be nn olijection IIh' axes and nays will lir entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. 'J'he vote stood as fdllows: Ayes: Breen. Brown, Buford, BuUard, Burns A F., Burns .\. .J., Burns Edward, Callaway, Collins. Courtney, Eaton. Fields. Gibson. (Gillette, Hart- man, Hickman, Hogan. .toy, Kennedy, .Maginnis. Mayger, I'arberry, Reek. Robinson, Rotwitt, Sargent, W'ari'en, Watson, Witter. Mr. President — 30. Nays: Aiken, Bickf()rd, Burleigh, Caldwell, Carpenter, Cauby, Ch(>ss- man, Conrad, Cooper, Ci'aven, Dixon, Durfee, IH'er, Gaylord. Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Haskell, Hatch. Hershfield. Hobson, .Toyes. Kanouse, Knippenberg, Knowles. Kohrs, Loud, Luce. Marrion, Marshall, .McAdow, Middleton, Mitchell, Muth, Mvers, Hamsdell, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole. J. R.; Toole. Jos. K.: Whilihill. Winston— i2. Absent: Brazleton, Rickards, Webster — 3. The Chair announced the vote anclmiidt, Stapletoii-, Warren, Watson, Wittm-, Mr, President — 38. Nays: Bickford, Bullard, Burleigh, Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby, Chess- man, Conrad, Cooper, Dixon, L)urfee, Gaylord, Goddard, Hatch, Hershfield, Hobson, Joves, Kanouse, Knowles. Kobrs, Loud, Luce, Marrion, Marshall, .McAdow. Middleton, Mitchell, Mutb, .Mvers, ftamsdell, Toole, J. K.; Toole, J. R., Whitehill. Winston-3i. Absent: Brazleton. Rickards. Webster — 3. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gentle- man from Cascade (.Mr. Collins to indefinitely postpone, carried. (Ap- plause' Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I move that the motion by which the sec- tion is indefinitely postponed be reconsidered, and that the reconsideration bo laid on the table. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: The gentleman voted aye on the proposi- tion and he cannot make a motion to reconsider. The President: It is moved and seconded that the vote by which Section 1 has been indefinitely postponed be reconsidered and that the reconsideration be laid on the table. The President: There being a call for the ayes and nays, if there be no objeection tliev will lie entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Browne, Buford, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A. J.: Burns, Ed- ward: Callaway, Collins, Courtney, Craven, Dyer, Eaton, l^ields, Gibson, Gillette, Graves, Hartman, [-lickman. Hogan, .Joy, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Maginnis, Mayger, Parberrv, Rct'k, Robinson. Rotwitt, Sargent, Stapleton, Warren, Watson, Witter, Mr. President — 3i. Nays: Aiken. Bickford, Bullard, Burleigh, Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Conrad. Cooper, Dixoii, Durfee, Gaylonl, Gly. withoid leaving it to the I.,egislature. that the road shall not L'l'ant and (d'ticers shall not receive.' That is to say that tln^ Legislature shall pa any railroad or oth(>r transportation com- pany, to state, county, district or municipal officers. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: Now I move to make use of the amendment that I offered there, commencing at the word "except" and I offer it as an amendment to the section offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. They are purely executive officers and their actions cannot be influenced by passes. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The section would then read. "Except sheriffs, deputy sheriffs and stock inspectors. ' ' Mr. .1. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I accept that amendment. The Chairman: The question before the house is upon the section as amended. The amendment is accepted by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Hickman of Aladison: I move that the word "judiciary" be added to the list of officers. , The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: T move to add to those officers that have been excepted. "Preachers of the gospel, pi-eachei-s. sabbath school teachers and members of the Salvation .Vrmy." Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I move as an amendment to that that the member from Custer be excepted. The Chairman: The question is on the amendment of |lii. gentleman ■from T-ewis & Clarke. Air. Hogan of Silver Bow: Ts this an amendment? The Chairman: This is the section offered bv the gentleman from Lev\-is (.leasure of the legislature only and you may rest assured it. will not be (lone. Mr. Buford of Madison: I move to amend that amentlmeni by inserting after the word railroad, the woi'ds "or ti'ansi>ortation." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Middleton of Custer: If I ina\- lie permitled a wonl in i-eply In the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Clark' I think it is trui' that this matter has come before a legislature once to my knowledge and perhaps i>n( i- twice before that, and action was hail upon it. X bill was mlrdduced ami died there. Now, I do not unilerstaml and do not believe that the gentle- man contends that in Ibis convention may be found all the wisdom that e\ei' was oi' evei' will be in Montana, and I believe it is I'aii- to say that the peoi)le in electing legislators will pei-liaps select with more care the per- sons thai they send her to make laws than they did in many instances in sending men here to make this conslilution. .^nd it seems lo me that it is a matter purely of le^-islation: it is a mailer to be hd't to the l(>gislature to say wheiliiT Ihey will enact those laws or not; but to say to them that you shall enact such an most excellent gentlemen in the terri- tory of Montana not commissioned by the President, who hold posts in the militia. Mr. Middleton of Custer: In connection with that resolution il seems to me that it w-ould in many instances work hardship and great inconven- ience. Xow, I know (he matter was considered last winter a( the time the registration law w'as under considei'ation in the |e,i;islature as (o the ap- pointment of registration agents and if was foiuid that it would be conven- ient in many places — most convenient for Ihe people, and could perhaps better be performed by postmasters where il was conveni(Mit lo ha\'e a reg- istration agent at a point where Ihere was a postoffice. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: I would say that it would not iid.erfere with them. It would have no affect upon Ihose postmasters. II is only those commissioned by the President and there are only certain ones com- missioned. It would not affect that at all. Mr. Mayger of Lewis & Clarke: I may simply make a statement as lo the postmaster of Marysville. He is a commissioned officer imder the President. He is now holding Ihe office of Clerk of the School Hoard of Trustees and I think it is an ol'tice created !)>• Ihe laws of Ihe territory of Montana and it would hi' in xiolntion of Ibis pi'inision if II were passed for him, to hold that office any |on;:er. The Chair |»nt Ihe question on the aiioptmn of Ihe .section as proposed by the gentleman from Yellowslone Mr. Myers and a \ii|e being taken the same was declared lost. Tlie Chaii'man: The Clerk will I'cad Section l:i of the iir'iiited bill. The Clerk I'ead Section 13, as follows: "The Legislativ(> .\ssembly may at any time, by a vote of two-thirds of the members elected to each liouse. recommend- to the electors of Ihe stale, lo \o|e at Ihe next ueneral elec- tion for or ajiainsl a provision to revise, alter or amend this constitution; and if a majority of those voling on the nuestion shall declare in favor of such convenlion. Ihe Legislatixe Assendily shall al its next session pro- vide fill- Ihe calling' Ihereof. The number of members of the conxentioii shall he the same as Ihat of Ihe house of i-epresentati\es. and tlie\ shall CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 577 be elected in the same manner, at the same places, and in the same dis- tricts. The Legislative .Assembly shall in the act. calling- the convention designate the day, hour, and place of its meeing, fix the day of its mem- bers and officers, and provide for the payment of the same together with the necessary exijenses of the convention. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the constitution of the United States and of the State of Montana, and to faithfully discharge their duties as mem- bers of the convention. The qualifications of members shall bo the same as members of the senate and vacancies occuring shall be filled in the man- ner provided for filling vacancies in the Legislative Assembly. Said con- vention shall meet within three months after such election and prepare such revisions, alterations or amendments to the constitution as may be deemed necessary, which sliall be submitted to the electors for their rati- fication or rejection at an election, not less than two. nor more than six months after the adjournment of the con\ention: and unless so submitted and approved by a majority of the electors voting at the election, no such revision, alteration, oi' amendment shall take effect. Mr Myers of Yellowstone: I desire in the first line to strike out the word "twn thirds" and insert "majority." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Yel- lowstone (Mr. Myers) and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Chairman: The following amendment is offered by Mr. Rotwitt of Meagher: amend by striking out on line 3 of section 13 the words "those voting on the question" and insert in lieu thereof. "All members" commencing on line 3 and extending into line 4. The motion was seconded. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I think the gentleman misappre- hends the meaning of this. I think if he will read closely he will see that the section refers to tlie electors instead of the members of the Legislature. Mr. Rotwitt of Meagher: I withdraw the motion. Mr. Myers of Lewis & Clarke sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers the follow- ing amendment which is in the nature of a substitute. Section 13. "The Legislative Assembly may at any time by a two-thirds vote of the members elected to each house recommend to the electors of the state to vote at the next general (>lection for or against a convention to re\ise. alter or amend this constitution as may be provided by law." The motion was seconded. Mr. .Mayger of Lewis iV Clarke: I think. Mr. Chaii'man that the legisla- ture should be allowed the privilege of stating what this convention should do. The Chaii' put the question on tlie said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Maygeri and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 13, the Clerk read Section li. as follows: "Any amendments to this constitution may be proposed in either house of the Legislaive Assembly: and if the same shall be voted for by two-thirds of the members elected to each house such proposed amendments, together with the ayes and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals: and the Secretary of Stale shall cause the said amendment or amendments to be published in full in at least one newsi)aper in each covuily if such there he) for three months previous to the next general election, foi' members tc the Legislative Assembly: and at said election the said amendment or amendments shall be submitted to the qualified electors of the state for their approval or rejection, and such as are approved by a majoi'ity of those voting thereon shall become part of the constitution. Should more amend- ments than one be submitted at the same election, they shall be so pre- pared and distinguished by niunbers or otherwise that each can he voted upon separately: Provided, however, that not more than three amendments to this constitution shall be submitted at the same election." Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: In line two of the section. I ask to strike out the words "two-thirds" and insert in lieu thereof the word "majority." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. 57S PROUEElJiNGS AND UEBATKS Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I li"iii' this iiKilimi will iml prf\ail. It is :i dcpiirturf. it scpihs to ine. from ail priTcdpiit. and. in addition In that, if il is made so easy to ainend this constitution upon every oerasion wlien thei-i- is a majority of h^eads or of tails down, the proposition will be submitted to be amended. I do not thinii. the organic law of the land should be so. constituted. I tiiintc ttie provision is a wise one. It is the same or virtually the same provision as in the constitution of the Ihuted Slates, anri 1 think wt> can do no better than to adopt the matter as it now stands. The mem- bers of the former convenlion thought the same thing and put ihat provision in. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: My object in offering the amendment was simply that a majority might rule in a matter of that kind. I submit, however, the iiroposition is entiri'ly in harmony with all our institutions, Ihat a majority should rule. I believe that if we found it necessary to submit the amendment to the constitution, and if a majority of the houses of I he Legislature deemed it fit. that such an amendment should be offered, I believe it is right that the people of this Territory should have the right to vote upon it: and this is particularly true when you take into con- sideration the fact that the submission of an amendment to the constitu- ion would incur no particular expense to the Slate, because if would be submitted at some regular election: it would simply come up when some other election would be before the people. 'J'he Chair put the question on the motion of Ihe genlli'man from Missoula, and a vote being taken the same wa.s declared lost. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. Air. Craven, of Lewis it (.Clarke: I should like the unanimous consent to return to Section I. It occurs to me that this blank form in Section 1 should be filled, and I bavi' jirepared an amendment which I should like to have read. The Chairman: The following amendment is offered to Section 1: By insei'ting in parenlheses, the following words, "the name of bis offici- being herein inserted", after the word "ear. The beginning of the fiscal vear. luidei' Ihe laws of the Territoi-y. has beeen made, I think, the firsi .Monday in '\Iai-ch. and thai is the lime the Treasui'i'r makes his fiscal settlements with the Connt>' Commissioners of Ihe county, and f do not think he onghl In Im' hirned out of id'fic(> before he makes his final settlemenl. Mr. Bickford nf Missniihi: \ir. Chairman, there is din' nllier set of officei's ttiat would he affecled liy this, and that is the scliO(d district officers. The election of these idficers is in May of each year and they aie expected to file llieir bond and fake possession of llieir office within 2(1 days id' the lime when ihey are elected to fill such office. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman fiom SihiM' Kow (Mr. Knowles to sti'ike oul Section 8. and a rli\Jsion being calli'd for. the same was declai'ed eai'ried by a vnle of 28 in the atririnalive to \9 in the negative. Ml'. Bullard. of .lefferson : 1 nio\e Ihat Ihr cniinuillee do now rise. The motion was secomled. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I mo\e tlial when Ihe I'nnnnitlce rise Ihey leport Ihe proposition back In the con\cnfinn wilh Ihe rei'nniinend.-ilinii Ihat as ameniled il do pass. The niidinn was si'cnnded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 579 The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Madison, .Mr. Hic-kmaii. and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Chairman: The qui'slii>n now is upon the motion of the gentleman from Jeffer.son. .Mr. Bullanl. that the committi'e do now rise. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Jeffei'son, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN CONVENTION. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: Your Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 28. have made several amendments and ask lor further time to report. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports that the conxmittee have had imder consideration Proposition No. 28, to which certain amendments have been made, accompanied by the recom- mendation that the amendments as reported be adopted. The Chairman desires further time in which to prepare his report. If there be no objection, it will be printed. Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: I move we take recess until 8 o'clock. The motion was seconded. Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge: I wish to give notice that at the proper time I shall move to reconsider Section 4 of Proposition No. 27. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that the convention do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried by a vote of 30 in the affirmative to 23 in the negative. The convention stood adjourned until l^ridav, August 2nd, 1889. at in A. M. TWEXTY-FOl RTH DAY. Friday, Aiupist 2n(l, 1889. ^lorniiig Session. The convention was called to order by the President at 10 A. M. The Clerk called the roll. The Chaplain offered prayei'. Mr. Stapleton, of Silver Bow: The Committee on Corporations desires to make a report. The report of the Committee on Corporations, other than municipal, will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: .Mr. President: Your Committee on Corporations other than municipal beg to report as follows: (Signed G. W. STAPLETON, Chairman. .Article on Corporations other than Municipal. Section 1. .Vll existing charters or grants of special or exclusive privi- leges under which the corporations or guaranteees shall not have organized or commenced business in good faith at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall thereafter have no validity. Section 2. No charter of incorporation shall hi' granted, extended, changed or amended by special law, except for such numicipal, charitable educalional, penal, or reformatoi'y coi'porations as are or may be umiei' the control of the state: but the Legislative .\ssembly shall provide by general law for the organization of corporations hereafter to be created, l^rovided: That any such laws shall be subject to future repeal or alteration Ijy the Legislative .\ssembly. Sec. 3. The Legislative .Assembly shall have the power to alter, revoke or annul any charter of incorporation existing at the time of the adoption of this constitution, whenever in its opinion it may be injurious to the citizens of the State. Sec. 4. The Legislative Assembly shall provide by law that in all elections for directors or managers of incorporated companies every stock- holder shall have the right to vote in person or by proxy for the number of shares of stock owned by him for as many persons as there are directors 580 PROCEEJ)INGS AND DEBATES or managers to be olected, or In cuniulafe said sliares. and {^ivc one candi- dalo as many votes as the number of directors mulliidied by the number of his shares of stock shall equal, or to distribute them, on the same principle, among as many candidates as he shall think fit; and such directors or managers shall not be elected in any other manner. Sec. 5. All railroads shall be public highways, and all railroad, trans- portation and express companies shall be common carriei-s, and sub.ject to legislative control and the Legislative Assembly shall have the power to regulate and control by law the rates of charges for (he transportation of passengers and freight by such companies as connnon carriers from one point to another in the State. Any association or corporation, organ- ized for the purpose, shall have the right to construct and operate a rail- road between any designated points within (his State and to connect at the State line with railroads of other States and Territories. Every railroad company shall have the right with its road to intersect, connect with or cross any other railroad. Sec. 6. No railroad corporation, express or other f i-ansportation com- pany, or the lessees or managers thereof, shall consolidate its stock, prop- erty or franchises with any other railroad corporation, express or trans- portation company owning or having under its control a parallel or com- peting line; neither shall it in any manner unite its business or earnings with the business or earnngs of any other railroad corporation. Sec. 7. All individuals, associations and corporations shall have equal rights to have persons or property transported on and over any railroad, transportation or express route in this State. No discrimination in charges or facilities for transportation of freight or passenaers of the sauK^ class shall be made by any railroad or transportation or express company belween persons or places within this State; but excursions or commutation tickets may be issued and sold at special rates, provided such rales are the same to all persons. No railroad or transportation or express company shall be allowed to charge, collect or receive, under penalties which the Legis- lative Assembly shall prescribe, any greater charge or toll for the trans- portation of freight or passengers to any place or station upon its route or line than it ctiarges for the ti-ansportation of the same class of freight or passengers to any more dislnnt place or station upon its rovite or line within this State. No railroad, express or transportation company, nor any lessee, manager or other employe thereof, shall give any prefei'euce to any individual, association or corporation, in furnishing cars or motive power, or for the ti'ansportnlion of money or other express matler. Sec. 8. No railroad, express or other transportation company, in exis- tence at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall have the benefit of any future legislation, without first filing in the office of Secretary of State an acceptance of the pi'ovisions of this constitution in binding form. Sec. 9. The riahl of eminent domain shall never be abridged, nor so constructed as to prevent the Legislative Assembly from taking the prop- erty and franchises of incorporated conirianies. anii subjecting them to public vise, the same as the pioiierty of individuals: and the police powers of the State shall never be aliridged or so construed as to permit corpora- tions to conduct theii- business in such manner as to infringe (he equal rights of individuals, or the general well-being of tlie State. Sec. 10. No corporation shall issue stock or bonds, exceid for labor done, services performed, or money and property actually received, and all fictitious increase of stock or indebtedness shall be void. The stock of coriiorations shall not be increased exc(>pt in pursuance of general law. nor without (he consent of the persons- holding a majority of the stock. first obtained at a eling held afler a( least thii'(y days notice, gixcn in pursuance of law. Sec. It. No foreigli cor|)oi-a(ion shall do any business in (his S(ate without having one or more known jilaces of business, and an authori/.i'd ageid. or agents in the same, upon whom pi'ocess may be served. .\nd no company or corporation formed under (he laws of any other country. State or Territory shall have or he allowed to ex(;rcise or enjoy within this State any greater righls or prixileges than tl\os(> possessed or enjoyed bv corporations of the same or similar character created mider the laws of this State. Sec. 12. No street oi' otiiei- raili'oad shall I onstr'ui'ted within any citv or town without the conseni ol' (he local authmilies lia\ing control CONSTITLIIONAI. CONVEXTION 1889 581 of the street or highway proposed to bo occupied l)y sui-li sli'cet or other raili'oad. Sec. 13. The Legislative Assembly shall pass no law foi' the benelit of a railroad or other corporation, or any individual or association of individuals, retrospective in its uperations. or which imposes on tlie people of any county or municiiml subdivision of the State, a new liability in respect to transportation for considerations already past. fiec. li. Any association nr corporation, or the lessees or managers thereof, organized for the purpose, or any individual shall have the right to construct and maintain lines of tele-iraph or telephone within this State, and connect the same wilh other lines: and the Legislative Assembly shall by general law of unifmiu operation provide reasonable regulations to give full effect to this section. .No telegraph or telephone company shall consolidate with or hold a controlling interest in the stock or bonds of any other telegraph or teleiihone company owiiing or having the control of a competing line, or acquire by purchase or otherwise any other com- peting line of telegraph or telephone. Sec. 1.5. If any railroad, telegraph, telephone, e.xpress or other cor- poration, organized under any of the laws of this State, shall consolidate, lay sale or otherwise, with any railroad, telegraph, telephone, express or other corporation organized under any of the laws of any other state or territory, or of the United States, the same shall not thereby become a foreign corporation, but the courts of this state shall retain .iurisdiction OM'r that part of the corporate property within the limits of the State, in all mattei-s that may arise as if said consolidation had not taken place. Sec. 10. It shall be unlawful for any person, company or corporation to require of its servants or employes, as a condition of their employment or otherwise, any contract or agreement whereby such person, company or corporation shall be released or discharged from liability or responsibil- ity on account of personal injuries received by such servants or employes while in the service of sucli person, company or corporation, by reason of the negligence of such person, company or corporation, or the agents or employes thereof: and such contracts shall be absolutely null and void. Sec. 17. The Legislative Assembly shall not pass any law permitting the leasing or alienation of any franchise so as to release oi- relieve the franchise or property bebl thereunder from any of the liabilities of the lessor or grantor, or lessee or grantee, contracted or incurred in the operation, use or enjoyment of such franchise or any of its pri\ ileges. Sec. 18. The term "corporation" as used in this article shall be held and construed to include all associations and joint stock companies having or exercising any of the powers or privileges of corporations not possessed by individuals or partnerships: and all corporations shall have the right to sue. and shall be subject to be sued, in all courts in like cases as natural persons, subject to such regulations and conditions as may be prescribed by law. Sec. 19. Dues from private corporations shall be secured by such means as may be prescribed by law, but in no case shall any stockholder be indi- vidually liable in any amount over or above the amount of stock owned by him. Sec. 20. That no corpoi'ation. stock company, person or association of persons in the State of Montana shall directly or indirectly combine, or form what is know as a trust, or make any contract with any person or persons, corporation or stock company, foreign or domestic, through Iheir stockholders trustees or in any manner whatever for the purpose of fixing the price or regulating the production of any article of com- merce, or of the product of the soil, for consumption by the people. That the Legislature shall pass laws foi' the enforcement thereof by adequate penalties to the exienf. if necessary for that purpose, of the forfeiture of their property and franchises, or in case of foreign corporations pro- hibiting them from carrying on business in this State. On motion of Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin, the reading of the report was disposed of and it was referred to the Committee on Printing and ordered to be printed. The President: The ri'poit of the Committee on Mininir and \\'ater Rights will now be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: 582 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. President: Your Committeo on Mining and Water Rights have tiad under consideration Proposition No. 30 and beg leave to report the same Sack with the recommendation that it be not passed. (Signed) J. R. TOOLE, Chairman. The President: This report w^ill go to the Committee of the Wliole. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: Under General Order of Busines.* No. 4. I negleeted to introduce the following: The Pi'esidenI: 'J'iiere is a ineinomudum of the genllomau from Silver Bow: If there be no objection, it will lie read. It is, howevc;-. out of order at, the present time. Tlie Clerk read as follows; Helena, Montana, August 2nd. 1889. To the President: \\'hereas the laws of llie t/nited Shiles provide for I tie collection of duty upon imported lead ores and under the i-nling fd' the Treasury Department Mexican lead ore.s are admitted duty free when the value of tlieir silver contents exceeds the value of the lead contents; and whereas the prosperity of Montana and the welfare of its people depends largely upon the lead" mining industry, which the present ruling is fast destroying; and whereas the claims of our lead ore proreon" after the word "settlers" on line 2. Section 10 is stricken mil and the following substituted: "The Legislative As.sembly shall pass laws prohib- iting the tiranting of free passes oi' the sali> of tickets at a discouni by any inilcoad or other transportation company to any stafe. county, district or inunicipal offii'or, except shorifl's. depvily slioril'fs. coiistalilcs ami stdck inspectiirs."" S(rikc out Sections II and 12. Rcspi'i'llullv submittod. (Signed J. R. TOOLE, Cliairinan. The Presidenl : IT Ihci'i' lie no dlijecfiiin. the convenlion will [irnrriMl t(i the consideraliou of the aiiiendnients. The report of the Cliairnian of the Committee of the Whole will be considered received if there be no objection, and the amendments will be taken up in their order. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend Section I by insertiiifj: the words "So help me (iod" after the word "abilities" on line 6. .Mr. Witter, of Beaxerhead: I move the adoption of the amendm.'nt. The motion was seconded. ■J'he Chair put the (|uestinn on the said nidlion of the tjenlleniau from Beaverhead y\y. Witter and a \'ofe beinj;- takiMi the snnn' was ileidai-ed cai rietl. The (>lerk read as follows: .\nd also substitute tlie word "riMiuire'' for the word "request" on the same line. Mr. Hartman, of Oallatin: I mo\e the adopliim of Ihe ameudmenf. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the questi(.>n on the said nuiliou of llir gentleman troni Gallatin ,.Mr. Hartman and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend by inserting after the word "of" on line 5 in the blaidc space in parentheses the words "the name of his office being herein inserted." Mr. Hartman, of Ciallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The (^.hair put the question on the saiil motion of the gentleman from GaUatin Mr. Hartman and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out Section 8. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I move the adoption of the ame'ndment. Till' motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. .Middleton and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .Amend Section 9 by inserting the woi'd "thereon" after the word "settlers" on line 2. Mr. Hartman. of (iallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Gallatin and a vote being taken the same w^as declared carrierl. The Clerk read as follows: Section 10 is stricken out and the following substituted: "The Legislative .\ssembly shall pass laws prohibiting the granting of free passes or the sale of tickets at a discount by any railroad or other transiiortation company to any state, county, district or municipal officers, except sheriffs, deputy sheriffs, constables and stock inspectors." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President. I move that thi^ substitute for Section 10 be stricken out entirely. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I move to amend the amendment by sub- stituting Section 10 as in the printed copy. The motion was seconded. The President: The printed copy remains before the conxention and is the subject for consideration. The amendment offered by thi' Committei^ of the Whole xvas to strike it out and substitute the amendmiMit as I'ead. There is an amendment now offered to strike out the substitute. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: My motion is to amend the amendment of the genlh'man from Custer by substituting Section 10 as in the [irinted copy. The Presila- ture or in other words in the hands of the people. Let the Legislature 58G PROCKEUINGS AM) UKUATES havo a.Dplc imiwit in iM-dicrl ihr rights nl' llir rciiiMlcs in tlu' (Mi.joynirul. of their' prniiiTly Just as tlii'.\ wiiuld have it thi'ii' liaiids had not been tied. Mr. Parb('iT-\. of M(^aKhi'i-: I think that this Section ii ought to be stricken ou(. 'i'hc huv as it mow slaiiiis says thai lenialcs shall have the same ri^'lit lo a[iy pronerty as males, anil leaves it right ther<', without I'lMliiiring any record of their property. I know of suits in progress now to (ieterrniue whether the i)roperty belongs to tile husband or Hip wife and Ihf- main iioinl in this was lo reriuire thi> women to keep a record of their property so that we might know to whom the property belongeij, anil inasmuch as the last Legislature voted to do Ihat and .just left it in such shape that they might have the same right to any propert\' as males, we thouglit it right to make it obligatory on the iiart of the Letiislature to say ^^hat jn'operty belonaeil lo married women. Mr. \Miifehill. of Deer liOdge: I hope this section will iml be stricken out. 'J'here is no subject about which there is so nnicli confusion amojig the law^-fcrs as upon the rights of property, and this section does fix tbos» rights, anci it fui'ther directs the Legislature to pass laws to determine the rights of property. I think it ought to remain. It may be said Itiat Hie Legislature will pass laws covering this matter, nevertheless the Leaisln- turc has not passed laws on this and now law;>ers are all at sea when questions come up regarding what property the widow is entitled to. II lias to tie decided by the courts before anybody can tell what is the law. There has never l)pen any decision of the Supreme Court of this Territory lo lell what it IS and f am in favoi' of the section. Mr. Middleton, o|' r.usier: The section*siniply I'alls upon Ihe Legisla- tiu-e to enact such laws as will define and si'cui'e to women their property rights. Now', anypody that will examine the statutes of this Territory will iibsei've that the Legislature has intended at least to set out and define and protect those I'ights and woulil place women on exactly an etiual footing with men so far as their proi)erty rights are concerned, ami if they have not doiii' that a^ yet, it is simply an error of judgment and not of 'ntention so that this section will not aid the Legislature in any other respect. They have attempted lo do Ihat aih'eaily and I belie\e have pretty nearly suc- ci eded in doing it. 1 believe that the statutes of this Territory at the present time define property in such a way that women's property rights are iili'niica! with those of men: and if it hi' a fact that this does not tend to aid the r^egislature in arriving at a mode of particularly and clearly defining these things, of what earthly use is it? The tendency of legis- lation within the last 10 or 15 years in this Territory has been in the direc- tion of placing the property rights of women on an identical footing with liiose of men and undoutitedly the tendency of legislation will continue in ihat way, and legislaloi's lo come, so far as their judgment goes, will undertake to define these matters if they are not sufficiently defined now. Now, what is the use of lumbei'ing up a conslitulion with the provision? It is perfectly safe in Ihe hamls of |he Legislature and this thing is simi)l\- a direction and does not indicate to them how to get at those matters. To my knowledge. Ihe la.st three oi' four Legislatures have attempted in the best way thex' knew how to deljne these rights and that is all they can do or will do under this provisfni if it remains. It does not seem to me neci'ssary to have such a provision in the constitution. Mr\ Goddard, of Yellowstone: In looking at the constitution on the rights of married women 1 find that Section tj here is copii'd almost xerliatim from Section I'l.'lL' of the constitution on Ilia! suli.iecl and it reads as follows: 'I'hat the properly owned by a married woman bidore her mariiage. or that which she may acquire on her marriage, and the inci-ease and use and profits thereof shall he exempt fi-om all debts &c., and proviiles for the following declaration of a married woman as to her intention id' doing business which is covered by this section in this constitution. Now. ( have noticed there is a spirit prevailing that in the report that lias been made by the committee wh(>re they hav(; inserted a section, every memlier of that committee slands by it because it is simply in there, ami tliev stand by it just simph for that I'eason— because il haiipens lo be there. Now. sir, I for one am nol in favor of legislation in lliis body. Tbere is not anything in this section (except pure legislation, a,s has been said by olher inembers. 'I'liis has been pi'ovided for by legislation foi' -'0 years and il is safe to sa\' Ihat the Legislatixi' .\ssemhl.v will cai-r\- out the iiilen- tjiiii dl' llial seclioii williniil aii.\ direction from this com eiil ion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 587 Mr. Liii-c. 1)1' Gallatin: I wnulil liki' to ask Mr. (indilard to r(»ad al.so Sections l-iSil and lil2. It is pro\ iiled for more clearly in those sections of the constitution. It. is already in the laws of the Territory. .Mr. Whiti'hill. of Deer Lodge: I submit that there is not a section llieiT. that lias any reference to the common property of the husband and wife. This section as we have it here ilirects the Legislature to provide and define the rights of the woman in relation to her separate property as well as in common with her husband, and I submit that this section here is not provided for in any section nf the constitution that the gentle- man has road. I think it is proper to allow it to remain if only for that very point. There is more confusion than anything else in regard to what are the rights of her own property. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I doubt very much whether this thing is ever settled very satisfactorily by a majority of this convention here or by a nia.jority of the people liere until some radical step is taken in the right direction, and I. therefore, ask to offer a substitute for the section. I think it will provide a panacea for all the ills in this connection and bring us out of the valli-y of the shadow of tribulation, if not death, and give us this temporary relief. The President: 'I'he gentleman from Custer offm's the following as a substitute for Section 12. which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: The property rights and political rights of MiaiTied women shall in all respects be placed upon an equality with the property and |)olitical rights of men. The motion was seconded. The Chairman stated the motion. Mr. Parberry, of Meagher: Thi' gentleman from Custer does not come to the point. The law says they shall have the same right to any property that men have. Now, the question is to determine whose property that is. Here is a married man who has horses and cattle and all kind of property, and the wife has the same right to own it as he has. Well, now, I have known a suit brought wbei'e the wife claimed the pi-operty and it was not on recoid; r.nd all we want is that the i)ropeity of the wife shall be placed on record so that you shall know whose property it is. She has the same right to own it, but it ought to be put on record. Mr. Hartman. of (lallatin: I move that Section 12 and the amendments offered to it be laid on the table. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion, Mr. Callaway, of Madison: On that motion I call for the ayes and nays. The President: There being a sufficient number to call for the ayes and nays, they will be entered on the journal. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I would inquire whether, if the motion pre\ails, it will lay Section 12 as printed an the table. The President : Yes sir. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Burns, A. F,: Carpenter, ('.auby. Collins, Craven, Durfee. Dyer, Eaton, Fields, (iibson, Gillette, Goddard. Graves. Hammond, Hartman, Haskell, Hatch, ,Jov, .Joves. Ivanouse, Knippenberir. Loud, Luce, Maginnis, Marrion. Marshall. Middleton. Mitchell, Mutb, Ramsdell, Reek, RotwiK, Schmidt. Stapletim. Whitehill, Winston, Witter— 38. .Nays: .Viken. Bickford, Browne, Bufnrd, Bollard, Burleigh, Burns, E.. Callaway. Cardwell, Chessman, Conrad, Cooper. Courtney, Dixon, Gaylord. Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson, Knowles, Kennedy, Kohrs, .Mayger, Mc.\dow, Mvers, I aiberrv, Robinson, Sar^'ent, Toole, .fos, K.. To(de. j. H.. \\arren, \\atson. Mr, President- 32, ,\hsent: Fra/.leton. Burtis . .\. .!.. Hogan. Rickards, Webstei'. — .""/. The Chair announced the vote and declai-fd the motion to lay on the table carried. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move to amend the proposition by striking out m Section 1 the words, "from locomotixes on railroads." The motion was seconded. Mr. Warren: T move to r.mend by striking out Section i. The President: The motion is not in order. Mr. Joy of Park: I would like to amend the gentleman's amendment further by striking out the word in the next clause, "or from other '^ause." The motion was seconded. 588 PROUEEinXGS AM) DEBATES Mr. .Mii.lillrcliiii (if Cuslci': II sccins In iiii' lh;U all Ihrsc inaltiTs aro mil. Ill' ordoi'. We arc still ai'tin^' upon tlit> inport dl' llio cominilli'o. Tin- Chyirmnii rcporti'd that llic ciinxi'iilMni had aclcd niioii the rejiort III' llial coiiiniilli'ia. Mr. Kaniiusr nl' .Mrai;liiM-: 1 uiidrMslaiiil llial iii\ ninlinii is nnw lii'fori* I 111' liiiiisr? Till I'rr.sidi'iil : '^'rs. sir, liiil IIhti' is aimlln'r iilnliiiii In ainriid liirllii'i by striking out the wnrds. "or troni any olhci- i^ause." .Mr. Ixaiiouso of Meagher: I undertalie to say that the adnptiiiii nt I lie amcudnient to the amendnuMit would possibly defeat the intention of the conimittee who introduced this section. While the effect of tlie adop- tion of the amendme.nt which 1 propose, I undertake to say would perliaps better carry out the intentions of that coniniitli'i' than In leave that lan- guage in. \\'hile upon its face such legislation is for the purpose nf protecting property from damage, its real effect is to protect cori)orations from the effects of their acts whether tliey arise from negligence ni' accidenl. For instance in the absence of any such legislation as the con- vention would here direct the Legislature to enact, the railroad companies are responsilile for Ihe stock that lhe>- kill, but if in order to proti'cl the slock from bi'ing 'dlled, it is enacted that lliey shall fence theii' mails why, whenever they comply with that law, they ha\e a prima facie de- fi'use against tlie claim of the owner of tlie stock. The consequence is that we require some such law as would require them to pul spark catchers on their loi'omotives. Then if Ihe damage is occasioned from fires there is a prima fai-ie defense for them if they show that they com- plied with the law and they are liable for the damage if there, is any. [ remember some years ago, when the legislators undertook to enact a law requiring railroads to plough furrows. II was impossible for tlie owners of stock to prove that there was any negligence on the part of the railroad company, provided the company showed that they traHl plowed these fur- rows, in tlie face of the fact that the railroad company would l)e respor,- sible just the same as anybody else would, for damage done to properly. Tliat is my reason for moving to strike out that language. Mr. Joy, of Park: I am heartily in accord with the gentleman. Now. r wish to strike out in line 2 Ihe words "from locomotives on railroads", and after the word "any" the worrl "other"; so that it may read, "The l^egislalive Assembly shall enact suitable laws to prevent the destruclion bv fire from any cause of the grasses and forests U]iiiii I lie lands of tlio state or upon Ihe lands of ijublic doniai i" tV:c. The amendment was seconded. The President: The gentleman from Park offers to amend Ihe amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Meagher by striking out the woi'ds "or from" and the word "other" in line twio of Section i. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Park and a vote being taken the same was ileclared cai'i'ied. The President: The ijuestion now is upon the motion as amended to strike out the words, "from locomotives from railroads" in line 2 of Section i, so t.lial the section will then read if amended. "The I.i'gislative Assembly shall enact suitable laws to prevent the deslruclion by fire from any cause of grasses and fiu'ests upon lands of Ihe slate." The Chair put tiie question on the said motion of the gentleman frnni Meagher, and a vole being taken ii was ileclared cai'ried. Mr. Warren, id' Silver Mow: I mii\e In sirike mil Sectimi 1, Tile motion was seconded. The Chair put the queslion mi Ihe said ninlimi ol' Ihe genlleiii:iii Irnm Silver How and a vote being taken Ihe same was declared losl. Mr. Whilehill of Deer Lodge: I have an amendment which 1 desire to offer. The l-'residenl : The gentleman Irmii Deer Lodge iiffers In amend by inserting al'ter Ihe words 'sn lielii me (Inil" if an atfirmalimi "under Ihe pains and penallies of per.jury." The motion was seconded. The Clerk read the section as Ihe same would be amended if the amend- ment iire\aileil as follows: "I do solemnly swear thai I will support, protect and detend the (lonstitulion nl' Ihe United Stales and Ihe Stale of Montana, and that I will failhfnlly iliscliarge the duties of Ihe office (here insei'l Ihe name nf the office accnrding to law and the best of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 589 my abilities; if an oalli "so help me God" and after the same words in iiari'nlheses, if on affirmation, "under the pains and penalfiels of perjury." Mr Knowlesi of i^ilver Bow: Now. suppose a man who swore to that oath was a Quaker. .\o\v, if you put that in there, there ought to be no objection to putting a little prayer at the end of the affirmation, that (iod will lielp that Ouaker to tell the trulli, Init when you make the Quaker take the affirmation under the pains and penalties of perjury, you are making the Quaker a sort of individual. Mr. Whitchill, of Deer Lodge: If this is not adopted, I submit that tiie words "or affirm" in brackets should be stricken out. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr. NX'hitehill. and a divisicin being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of 20 in the affirmative to 24 in the negative, Mr. Schmidt of Silver Bow: I have an amendment which I desire to offer. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers to amend Section 6 of Proposition 28 by inserting after the words, "reason for" the words "strictly and purely" so as to read, "No perpetuities shall be allowed except for strictly and purely charitable purposes." The motion was seconded. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, I do not see that that strengthens the sense of the sentence at all. It says, "for charitable purposes". Now, no other construction can be placed upon that except for charitable ijurposes and I think the gentleman's amendment is entirely superfluous, and is just wasting the tinie of the convention and would not accomplish anything. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentlem,an from Silver Bow. Mr. Schmidt, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Marshall of Missoula sent up an amendment. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula also sent up an amendment. The President: Tlie gentleman from Missoula offers a new section to be numbered Section 10, as follows: "No railroad or transportation company or any agent, officer or employee thereof, shall grant free passes or tickets or pass or ticket at a discount to members of th(> Legislative Assembly or any state or county or municipal officer, and the acceptance of any such piass or ticket by a member of the I.egislative .Assembly or any such officer or officers shall work a forfeiture of his or their office and the emoluments thereof: and. any railroad or transportation company violating any provision of this section shall forfeit to the state five hun- dred dollars for each and every violation thereof, to be recovered by an action at law. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I offer the following as a substitute for the gentleniian's motion. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I offer an amendment to it so as to bring it within the rule. Strike out all except "legislator" strike out "state, county and other municipal officers" and leave it to the Legislatui'e alone. The motion was seconded. The President: There is an amendment offered by Mr. Marshall which the Clerk will read. It refers to Section 9. The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Maginnis) also offers a substitute for Section 10. The Chair is in doubt as to admitting this motion. With the exception of the penalty it is practically the same as the one voted down or laid upon the tabli'. which can be read at any time by a motion to take from the table and reconsider: and if we go on allo\^^ng motions to be reni^\\Td simply by the change of a word, we can keep on indefinitely. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I withdraw my amendment. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I sent up an amendment to Section 9. The President: There is an amendment offered by Mr, Marshall of Missoula. The Clerk read the same, as follows: Add the following at the end of Section 9. "Provided that all school land in the corporate limits of any incorporated city or town within a mile of such limits worth as much as $50 per acre shall be sold in tracts of not more than 5 acres each, and not more than one-half of such lands shall be sold before the vear 1895. 590 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Warren ol' SiUiT Bow: I move to lav the ammKlinrui on the table. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the anenthnent (d'feped by the "gentleman from Siher Bow be adopted. The t;enlleman from Silver Bow moves to lay the amendment on the laible. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Out of courtesy to the g:entl(Mnan, I will withdraw my motion for a moment. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: Mr. President, I consider this matter a very important proposition. There may be miany sections of school lands in the territory to which it is applicable but there is one particular section that I do not know of. that it applies to, and I think it would be a good thing to restrict the legislature with regard to the sale of that section. It is Section 16 that lies adjoining the city of Missoula immediately west of the city between Missoula and the new race track, and has been lately established at a large expense— $10,000 or $12,(KX), and worth now they say or generally estimated al being worth $100,000. Missoula, as we all know, is a growing city. This section is located exactly where, if the city expands, it will cover the section. If it is sold in 40 acre tracts or 160 acre tracts or any other except small tracts, it will go into the hands of rich capitalists — speculators — against whom there can be no general competition in the sales. They will buy it up for purposes of speculation and will sell it out at an immense profit. I believe that the school funds ought to have Ihe benefit of that 'profit. I believe Ihat selling it out in small tracts and giving everybody — men of moderate means — a chance to buy a home there, will be of infinitely more advantage not only to the city of Missoula but to the school funds. Section 0 provides that actual settlers shall have the preference. The laws of the United States I believe give an actual settler upon a quarter of a section of land the right of preference to the whole quarter section. This by itself may be construed to give a person who has settled upon these school lands the preference to buy Ihi' whole quarter section I think myself that the matter is important. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I would suggest to my friend Ihat Proposition No. 23, Public Lands, would perhaps be a better plia.ce to put this. Mr. Marshall, of Miss(mla: That has been voted down. I believe. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I did not think this proposition had been acted upon. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: The viroposition ia.s to Public Lands was — that lands should not be sold. The Educational Article directs (hat they shall be sold. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis e prici^ that is offered by anybody else. Now, Ihere are many men who would want homesteads upon these lands ad.joining cities who would not ln' able to buy lands at $50 or $100 an acre as (bis land is worlli. luid (hey would be placed outside of that competition. 'I'hero would be nobody to compcMe except rich men: and if it is to he sold in -'lO or KVO acre tracts, it reaches out of the competition of hundreiis of men who would like to have five acres or less of the public lands adjoining (he city, and it seems to me that it is proper that (his Consdtutional Convenlion shoulil regulale (hat. matter and no(. leave il (o tln' legislature, ami 1 |ii'(i|>os(. (hni |]iis CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 591 convention shall say tirat land situated as this is — I do not know how many sections there are in the territory in that situation — there may not ho any except this one 'adjoining Missoula — but it does seem to me proper that this Constitutional Convention should regulate how lands as valuable as this land, in the situation that it is, how it shall be sold by the legislatures and to providi^ that it shall not be sold in tracts of more than 0 acres, and provide tliat not more than one-half of it shall be sold in less tlian 5 years. Half of that, that is reserved, will be worth mor(> than the whole now. But if we give to the legislature the iiower to sell as it pleases, influenct^d by any syndicate of rich men that miglit be formed to buy it up to sell it in 160 acre tracts or 10 acre tracts instead of going into the hands of the settlers, it goes into the hands of speculators. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I desire to say one w'ord on this subject. The repoii of the C.onnnittee (ui Education has been received and adopted ' by this convention in which it is provided that the school lands may be sold or leased. Mr. Magiimis of Lewis A Clarke: Oh no. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: Leased or sold as the li'gislature may see fit and under such regulations as may be prescribed by the legislature, I desire to advocate the amendment offered by the gentleman from Missoula if that amendment is intended to allow the selling of not less amount than .3 acres, and I think it is. The fact of the case is that the tract of land referred to by the gentleman has already been settled upon by quite a number of settlers owing to the fact that the town has been growing rapidly in the direction of where this school land iii'S and if there he some arrangement made by the legislature by which this land could be solil or leased ciTtainly the amendment or additional clause to the section offered by the gentleman from MissouLa can do no harm, because it will as he says cut off the speculators from becoming posses.sed of the whole tract of land and reaping a rich reward in the future. It will allow those persons who are now living upon the land to obtain (ille Id their- land and it will result in the gn^atest benefit to the future state because every house that is built upon that tract adds eventually to the value of what remains of the land not built upon. I believe, sir, that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Missoula shoidd prevail. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: T would like to read the other siile of the section that has already been adopted in the article on education (readingi The governor. Superintendent of Public Instruction, Secretary of State and .Mtorney Tieneral shall constitute the State Board of Land Commis- sioners which shall have the direction, control, leasing and sale of the school lands of the state and lands granted or which may hereafter be granted for the support and benefit of the various State Educational Institutions under such regulations and restrictions as may be prescribed by law." Mr. Maginnis of Lewis tt Clarke: If my friend will allow me. he will see that that section applies not only to the school lands but to the other lands of the state and that the part of the constitution which treats on this subject of lands, is Proposition No, 2.3 on Public Lands which has not come up yet and where everything which we choose to adopt in reference to this matter' should come in. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I am not particular as to what part of the constitution it shovrld be provided in. The President: The rprestion is upon the adoption of tlie amend- ment, Mr. Collins of Cascade: [ move that this matter be placed upon the (ieneral File to he considered with Proposition No. 23. the report of the committee of which Mr. Callaway is Chairman — Public Lands. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: Before the matter is put, I call attention of the convention to Section 4 of Proposition 17. General File No, 16 in which it is provided that the fiovernor. Surierintendent of Public In- struction, Secretary of State and .\ttorney General, shall constitute a State Board of Land Commissioners, which shall have the direction, control, leasing and sale of the school lands of the state and the lands granted or which may hereafter be gi'anted for the support and benefit of the various State Educational Institutions, under such i-egulations and restrictions as may be required by law. It may be remembered that I offered an amendment to this article providing that the legislature 592 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES might — or rather, it was an amendment to the Resolution No. 8 offered by the gentleman, Mr. Lure which w^s considered in connection with Proposition No. 17. The amendment offered was withdrawn upon the suggestion of some gentleman because it was contended at that time that Section 4 gave to the legislature ample power to provide for the sale of and leasing of school lands. Now sir, if this proposition is germane to tho subject under considerati.m I believe that we should take it up and consider it at this time. If it can consistently become a part of Proposi- tion No. 28, we ought to consider it at this time and make it a part of that proposition, and I am willing if it is more germane or more pertinent to the proposition that is here— Proposition No. 23— that it should be coTisidered in connection with that. While discussing that, it ought to be considered by this convention at the same time. The President: Tlie question is upon the reference to this motion to amend to the Committee of the \\'hole by considering in connection with Proposition 23. The (Jhair put the iiuestion on Ihe said motion stated and n vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The matter is referred to the Committee of the Whole to be considered in connection with Proposition No. 23. There is now an amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to constitute a new section. The number is not given, but that can be arranged, should it be adopted. The Clerk read as follows: The legislature shall provide for the punishment of any railroad company or other corporation or any officer or employe of any corporation or of any person who shall attempt in any manner to bribe, corrupt or improperly influence any officer of this state, &c." Mr. ]\!aginnis: 1 move llic ailnpiinii nl' lli;it sei-liiui. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move to add the words "or citizen" after the Miord "officer." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge: I think Sections 42 and 43 in the article on Legislative Departments cover that. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I only intended to offer that as a substitute to Mr. Kennedys motion which was read out of order I think. The President: That was withdrawn. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis \- Clarke: Very well. then, let this be withdrawn. Mr. Eaton of Park: Offered an additional section. The President: The gentleman from Park desires to offer a section to be incorporated 'u Article 27. wliicli reads as follows: The Clerk read: "No railroad or other transportation company or any agent, officer or employee thereof shall grant free passes or tickets orpasses. or passes or tickets at a discount to members of the I^egisla- tive Assembly or of the Judiciary, and the acceptance of any such pass or ticket bv a member of Ihe Legislative As,sembly or such .judiciary shall work forfeiture of his or her office and the emoluments thereof and anv railroad or transportation company violating the provisions of this section shall forfeit to the state .i;i.noO for each and evi'cy violation thereof to be recovered by 'an action at law." Mr. Eaton of Park: I move the adojition of that section. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I rise to a point of order. Tlie matter contained in the amendment (d'fered by the gentleman has beeen passed upon by this convention almost verbatim and it occui's to me that this matter is being prolonged imnecessarily. Mr Eaton of Park: In reply to that I simply desire to say that this section as now |;roposed cover's simply mend)ers of the fieLTislalive .\s- sembly •and of the judiciary, and debars, as regards -the former section, all state officers and comity officers. It is entirely different from any- thing that has been voted on before, so far as I know of. The President: The proposition is materially different in the officers that it embraces. The Choir does not desire to take the responsibility of testing a riueslinn of so much importance ;is this, and ilnr-; nut di'sin' ALFRED MYERS EDWARD Bl'RXS HENRY KXIPPENBERO CHARLES S. WARREN- LOUIS ROTWITT CHARLES S. JL\RSHALL WARREX C. GILLETTE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 593 to rule out. or rule in any proposition of this kind. It can easily be reached by a vote of the convention as to whether it shall be considered or not. The Chair prefens that the convention shall determine these matters involving these questions. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I am in favor of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Park, but 1 think there is a very ini- jiortant omission. It applies cmly to members of the Lefjislalure and to members of the Judiciary. It omits the State Board of Equalization who are to assess this properly in different counties and omits the County Board of Equalization Mr. Eaton of Pai'k: I will accept that amendnnut. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke; I move that the am'M'dnieiit and nr- iginaJ proposition be laid upon the table. The motion was seconded. 'J'lie Chair .^lalra the motion. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I call for the ayes and nayri. The Pre.'^itlt i;t: If there be no objection, the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The motion is to lay the proposition of the gentleman from Park and the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke on the table. The Clerk called Uu< roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: BicUford, Burleigh, Burns, Chessman, Craven, Dyer, l''ields, Gibson, Goddard. Graves, Hershfield, Hartman, Haskell, .loyes, Kanouse, Knippenberg, Loud, Luce, Maginnis. Marrinn, McAdow, Middleton, .Mitchell, Muth, Reek, Sargent, Toole. J. K., Whitehill, Winston,— 29. Kays: Aiken, Breen, Buford, Bollard, Burns, A. F., Burns, Edward, Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Eaton, Gaylord, Gillette, Hatch, Hershfield, Hiclcman, Hobson, Hogan. Joy. Kennedy, Knowdos, Kohrs, Marshall. Mayger. Myers, Parberry. Hamsdall, Robinsnn, Rotwitt, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. K., Warren. Watson, Witter, Mr. President. — 42. Abse|ht: Brazleton, Browne, Rickards, \Vebsiter^4. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion lost. The President: The question now is upon the motion of the gi'uile- man from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Carpenter, and which has been accepted by the mover of the motion. The Clerk will read the original proposition offered by the gentleman from Park as amended by the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. The Clerk read as follows: "No railroad or other transportation company or any agent, officer or employee thereof shall grant free passes or tickets at a discount to members of the Legislati\e Assembly or of the Judiciary, or any member of the State or County Board of Equalization: and the acceptance of any such pass or ticket by a ' member of (he Legislntive Assembly or of such J\.idiciary or any member of the State or County Board of Equalization shall work a forfeiture of his or their office and the nnoluments thereof: and any railroad or other transporta- tion coiri|ian> \ioIating the provisions of this section shall forfeit to the state .^l.OCMI for each and every violation thereof to be recovered by an action at law." Mr. Parberi'y, of Meaghei': It seems to me that covers every point that we have been arguing here, except one. The provisions are alright, bat it does not provide that the Legislature at the first session after this constitution has been adopted shall enact such laws as wtII enforce this. It can lie on the legislative desks and they can pass such laws without this, I desire it should be amended in that way; that the Legislature at the first term, after this constitution has been adopted, shall enact such laws as will enforce this provision. Mr. Craven, of Lewis tt Clarke; I have noticed that when this conven- tion runs on to legislation, that it takes up a large amount of time in discussion. The fundamental organic law is usually so clear and plain that two or three days in the discussion of a proposition is sufficient. It seems to me that if we had de\'oted our attention to clear fundamental law we would have been through here two weeks ago. Now, T feel free to say that I regard this section simply as so much buncombe. I impugn the mo- tives of no member on tlie floor who supports or who has introduced it or any- thing similar to it, but it seems to me that it is clearly legislation. Tt has been argued that this section or a section similar to it was held in very high esteem when they voted on the constitution in 1884. I am not aware 594 PROUEEDIXGS AND DEBATES that, that proposition was subiiiifted as a srpaiale proposilinn. Ilic sfti^tion, I presump. got about the same iiumlM'r of \otPs that I lie LMjiistitutioii in general ditl. It has been allegeil dial '.Ml per ceiil of llie people are in faMii' of a proposition of this kiml. It thai is so. is it nol entirely sale to leave the matter to (he lei-'islalors of the future. It does not go far enougli. We would provide thai any man can ha\e the privileg(> o\ the dining ear without providing full compensation therefoi- and the services of the bootblack without paying full compensation (liei'efor. Why. if wi,' give full credence and force to all the propositions (if this sectinn. when railroads in the future got to cutting rates, certain officers of the State could nol have the same a(tvantages whicli are accorded to the jjuhlic. A few years ago, the railroads in Minneapolis or St. Paul sold round trip tickets to Chicago at 50 ceids. I undru'stand that gentlemen of the Li'gis- lature and the officers of the Stale would be precluded from the advan- tages thus offered to ttie general public. It seems to me (hat if this is a favoi'ite proposition in the e\i',s (d' the people there is no queslinn that they will see that their sentiments are enacted into law. You talk about officers. You do nol know that those officers 25 years hence will be ui existence. It seems to mo purely legislation and matter which can well be left with the people. The President: The guestiim is upon the adoption of the proposition. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I call for the ayes and nays. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: T desire to explain my bit in reference to this. I offered an amendment yesterday to lea^e this matter to the Legislature — give the future legislators the |)ower to pass laws in reference to what is generally considered to be a strong public sentiment in regard to this matter. My oh.jection to this is that it affects all railroail and transportation companies, and, as f said the other day, thei'e may be a very serious question as to whether or not this can be maile applicable to a railroad or transpoi-tation company, the charter of wiiich was granted b>' the I'nited States, and I think it better to leave it to the Legislative Assembly. I do not think there ought to be anything put in the constitu- tion as to which there would be any doubt regarding its constitutionality, imd, therefore, I shall vote no. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken. BrecTi, Bufni-d, Bui lard. Burns, A. F.; Burns, Edward; Callaway, Carpenter, Cauby, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Eaton, Gaylord, (iilletfe, Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson, Hogan, .toy, Kennedy, Knowles, Kohrs, Maishall, Mayger, Myers, Pai'berry, Rams- dell, Robinson, Rotwitt, Schmidt, Stapletcm, Watson, Mr. President — 38. .Vays: Bickford, Bra: es, Kanouse. Kni|ipi'uberg, I.,oud, Luce, Maginnts, Marrion, McYdow, Middl'elon, Mitchell, Mulli, Reek. Sargeid, 't'oob', ,Ios. K.: Warren, Wliitehill, Winslon. Witter— 35. Absent: Riekards. Webster— 2. The Chair announced the vote and declared the |ir(i|iiisiliiiii nt Ibe geidleman from Park carried. The President: Ai'e lliiM'e an\ iiIImt amendments In be nl'IVi'ed lo I'i'oposition No. 28? .Mr. Warren, of Sil\ci' Bdw: I mn\e that the prdpnsillnii In' jdai-eil u|)on its final passage. The motion was seconded. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I (d'lVr an amendmeid Id Section I. Mr. Callaway, of .Aladison: I u\(>\r thai lb(> coiiM'idinn dn now take a recess until 2 o'clock. The motion was secomled. The Chair put fh(> question on the said motion of the gentleman from Madison, and a division being called for, the same was tieclared lost by a vote of 24 in the affinnali^■e to 37 in the negative. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Toole, offers to amend Section I by str'iking out. all (d' the words "to-wit" in line 3 u)) lo and including the word "abililies" in line (i and inserting the following: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm' that I will s\ipport and defend the con- stitution of the United States anri the constitution of the State of Montana and that I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity: that I have not paid or contributed or pi'Omised to pay or contrib>di> eithiM' directly nv inilireclly any mnney or idber \alMabli> tiling to pi'ocure m\- nominalion CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 595 or plection lor appointment except for necessary and proper expenses expressly auttiorized by law: that I have not knowingly violaled any elec- tion law in this Stale or permitted it to be done by others in my behalf; that 1 will nut individually receive directly or indirectly any money or other valualile thinL' tor ijerfr.rmanee or non-performance of any act of duty pertaining' to my office other than the compensation allowed by law. So help me God."" The amendment was seconded. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Let me call attention to one error in the printed copy where the word "territory"" occurs: it should be "state." The Chair put the question on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. -Mr. Eaton, of Park: I move that Proposition No. 28 be placed upon its final passage. Tlie motion was seconded. .Mr. Middleton. of Custer: It seems to me that there are so many amendments that it ought to be engrossed before being placed upon its final passage. I move that it be referred to the Engrossing Committee. It certainly should be engrossed before it is read and placed upon its final passage. The motion of the gentleman from Custer was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I would just like to make a suggestion with reference to this proposition, that it be printed. I think it emJjraces the miscellaneous subjects and I think it would be very well to have it printed with the amendments and placed on the desks of the members. '- .Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Mr. President, there is a little amend- ment I desire to offer and I thmk probably the convention will concur with me, that ought to be idaced in this bill. I do not think that it belongs to any other part of our constitution, and it probably belongs here. That is that the legislative power of this State shall extend to all rightful sub- jects of legislation not prohioited by this constitution or the constitution of the United States, whether enumerated in this constitution or not: so as to clothe the Legislature with power to legislate on all proper subjects which belong to the police power of the State. I offer that as a section to be numbered Section 13. Mr. Goddard. of Yellowsti^ne: This motion is withheld for the purpose of amendment. I have six or seven amendments which I propose to offer to this proposition. The President: The motion to commit takes precedence of the motion to amend. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I am willing to accept the suggestion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, and I am willing to amend, and I move that it be referred to the engrossing committee with instructions to engross and have printed. The Clerk read Mr. Robinson's amendment The President: Where does the gentleman desire to have this placed? Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I move thai it be considered with Propo- sition No. 19 in regard to Legislative Departments. The Presiilent: Is there a second to the motion to adopt? The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the amendment be adopted. The gentleman from .Madison moves that it be considered with Proposition No. 19 with the Legislative Departments in Committee of the Whole. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: I was going to suggest that the repnrt of the Committee on Legislative Departments recommends that the legisla- tive power tif the State shall be vested in the Legislative Assembly. It seeems to me that that would cover — interrupted . The President: This is in favor of referrinsr to the Committee of the Whole. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Madison. Mr. Hickman, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried, and the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, .Mr. Robin- son, was refei-red to the Committee of the Whole. 596 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Burleigh, of Cuslcr: I inovi- I he cniivontiun now tako a recess until 2 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the que.stiou on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Burleigli. and a vote being taken, tiie same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until 2 P. M. Friday, .\ii(|iist 2iul, 1889. .Aflernoon Session. The convention was called lo order by the President at 2 P. M. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Eaton, of Park: 1 move that the convention go into Committee of the \Miole for the purpose of considering Proposition No. U1. ai'ticle on Legislative Departments. The motion was seconded. The President: The Chair would stale that Mr. Graves desired to bi> excused this afternoon. If there be no objection the gentleman will bo excused. The Chair stated the motion of the gentleman from Park, Mr. Eaton. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I renew the motion, Mr. President, that I made before the adjournment. Mr. Eaton, of Park: I will withdraw my motion for that purpose. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: My motion was that Article 28 be referred lo the Engrossing Committee for the purpose of being engrossed in order li> be printed. The Chair put the motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Middleton, that .Vrlicle 2S be referred to the Engrossing Committee and a vote bein:^ taken the same was declared carried. The President: The question is now that the convention do resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Article on Legislative Departments. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the said gentleman from Park, Mr. Eaton, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President ciuidiu-led Mr. Eaton, of Park, lo the Chair. l.\ COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Eaton, (d' Park, in Ihe Chair. The eonnnillee was called to urdcr. The Chairman: The CIrrk will read Ihe first section of Proposition No. P.). Article on Legislative Departments. The Clerk read Sect inn I as follows: Section 1. The legislative power shall be vested in a Senale and House of Representatives, which shall be designated "the Legjslalivi" .Vssendily (if Ihe Slate of Monlana," .Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I think there was a resolutidn referred to Ihe Committee of the Whole today in connection to this proposition — Mr. Robinson's resolution. The Chairman: If it be the pleasure of the Committe(> that Ibis be considered now, the resolution ^vill be read for the infoi'mation of the (lonimitlee. The Clerk read Mi'. Uolilnson's resolution as follows: Thai llie Legis- lative power of this State shall iwlend lo all I'ighiful subjects of legislation not prohibited by this constitulion or the conslitution of the United Stales wheher enumerated in this I'onstilution or not. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I move you, sir, thai Ihal |]i> addeil lo tliis section, comiecled by the word "and". The motion was seconded. * The Chair stated Ihe motion. Mr. Knowies, of Siher Bow: Tiiere is no necessity for putting this provision in the constitution. When you have said the legislallv(> |)ower of Montana Tcrriloi-y shall be. vested in the Legislature of the State of Montana, you have said all that is necessary. By that term you liave gi'anted the legislativ(> pow(>r, whatever that is. and there is no necessity whatever for putting this iirovision in the consfilution. The general rule is that when \ou ni'e ci'anliii;: to i\ li^fjjslalivc body the legjslalivi' power. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKNl'lON 1889 597 in a State cunstitution, you have granted them the powiT Id lef-'islatc upon all I'iyhtful subjects of legislation. That term is implied, and it goes to Itial c.xteiil. or so far as it is limited by ttic pro\isions of the constitution. ■J'he constitution may limit the legislative power, but so far as it is not limited by the constitution it will have that power. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I desire to make substantially the same sluleincnt. that whenever the legislative power is vested, it is a mattei- of course implied that all authority exisis there except such as is in conflict with the constitution of the United States and this constitution. I\lr. Winston, of Deer Ijodge. called for the reading of thr- amendment. The Clerk read the same. The Chair put the question ot Ihe motion of the gentleman from Gallatin. Mr. Luce, and a ^ote being taken, the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 2 as follows: Sec. 2. Senators shall be elected for tlie term of four years, and Rep- resentatives for Ihe term of two years, except as is otherwise pi'ovided in this constitution. 'J'here being no amendment to Sec. 2. the Clerk read Sec. 3, as follows: Sec. 3. No person shall be a Representative who shall not have atlaineij the age of twenty-one years, or a Senator who shall not have attained the age of twenty-fi\e years, and who shall not be a citizen of the United States and who shall not (for at least twelve months next preceding his electioni have resided within the county or district in which he shall be elected. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: I move to strike out the words "twenty- five" and insert the words "twenty-one" where they occur on the second line after the words "age of." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Myers, of Yellowstone: t simply wish to say, gentlemen of the con- vention, that iMontana has produced the famous race horse "Montana Regent," and the famous race horse "Spokane" and there is no telling what kind of material she may produce ni the future. The Chair put the question of the said amendment proposed for the gentleman from Yellowstone, Mr. Myers, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Sec. 3. the Clerk read Sec. i, as follows: Sec. 4. The Legislative Assembly of this State until otherwise provided by law, shall consist of sixte.ni members of the Senate and fifty members of the House of Representatives. It shall bi< the duty of the first Legisla- tive Assembly to divi(ie the State into senatorial and representative dis- tricts, but there shall be no more than one Senator from each county. The senatorial districts shall be numbered from one consecutively to correspond with the munber of counties. The Senators shall hi^ divided into two classes. Those elected from districts numbered odd numbers shall con- stitute one class and those elected from districts numbered the even num- bers shall constitute the other class: and when any additional Senator shall be provided for b\- law his class shall be determined by lot. One- half of the Senators elected to the first Legislative Assembly shall hold office for one year, and the other half for three years: and it shall be determined by lot immediately after the organization of the Senate -ivhelber the Senators fi'om the odd nv e\en numbered districts shall hold fur one or three years. Mr. J. K. To(jle, of Lewis & (llarke: I think I oughl to make a state- ment to the connnittee in re.gard to this section. I belie\e it is the only proposition emliodied in the article about which there was a dfference of opinion among the members of the committee. 'J'he committee were not unanimous with respect to it. but there were just enough to report tin- facts to the committee. They were equally divided, one member beiniJ absent at the former- consideration of it. And in view of the fact. Mr. Chairman, that the Apportionment Committee were appointed with special reference to the apportionment of the Territory, and doubtless intended to be charged with the responsibility of fixing the number of persons who shall constitute the First Legislative Assembly of the State of Montana, as well as the apportionment of the State, and that subject having been' committed to that committee in the constitutional convention which met 598 PRUCJ!;tUINGS AND DEBATES Icur \cars ■aiio. I ni(i\e that, wlii'U llic i-iniiiiiillrc risi' il n^iKU-N this prupdsitiou back with the lecoiiimi'iidation lliat il Im' ii'lViicil in tlif Cnmmittpp on AiJiJortioiunent and Rcpresentaliiui. Till' indtion was seconded. Till' Chair staled the question. Mr. Burleigli, of Custer: I liope this luolioii of the gentleman from Lewis I'i: Clarke (rmuily will not preAail. We have bri'n here about four weeks working' upon Ibis constitution. This Proposition .\o. tl> has been considered in committee and reporteil to this convention foi' its action — its adption or rejection. It looks to me as though nothing could l)e gained but ever\thing lost in the way of time by this reference, and wheltier it is to avoid action upon the matter now in convention or fop the purpose of having it more deliberately considered is a question I care nothing about. It is a matter that has been as fully canvassed as any question that has or will come before this convention, and I belip\e the gentlemen of the convention are as well prepared to act upon it now as at any other time; and if we are to gel. through with our laboi-s here in order to submit this constitution to the people for their ratifica- tion before the ne.xf meeting of Congress. I suggest, that we had better proceed with these matters as they come up in (heir regular order here and not delay Iheiii for any purpose whatever. I hope as the matter is before the committee and as it has been considered by most of the members of the convention, that it will now take ils regular course anri be acted upon by the convention. Mr. Luce, of (iallatin: This proposition was reported here July 191 h: consequently, it has been on the desks of the members here for about thirteen tlays, and they are very likely as well prepared to consider this now as they ever will be: and furthei'. I have not heard any request from the Committee on Apportionmeid that it be referred to that com- mittee, and unless they need it or want it for any other purpose, I don't know why it should be sent to that committee, oi- recommended to be sent to that committee by the convention. It seems to me that it is proper to go on with this now. This is the proper place for it. Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: I certainly think that motion should prevail. I think ths matter should be referred to the Committee on Ap- portionment. I think that is what the committee was appointed for. and I think you will expedite mailers by doing so, for they will bring in a re])ort recommending the number of Senators that each county shall have in the Senate. iS'ow, so far as time is concerned, I think the time that has been lost would cut no figure in the work we are to do, if we have to stay here all winter. I think the clamor that we are wasting time comes mostly from the men who consiune the most of the time of the comention. So I think this matter ought to he referred to the Committee on Apportionment. It is their duty and not the duty of the Legislative Committee. .Mr. Middleton, of Custer: As has been suggested by the gentleman from Gallatin, the whole proposition has been here for two weeks, and I pi'esume every member has studied it perhaps more fully than he has any oilier proposition llial has been laid on his table. II certainly isprojierlya part of the legislative article. The Committee on .\pportionment and Represenlalion is the smallest committee of all the slanding cnnimiKees. It has only three membi'i'S. If has a vast amount of work to do. The matlei- of dividing the State, in the shajie that il is, into fifty oi- more districts for the purposes of representations is jn'obably the most diffi- cult task that any committee has had to co|ie with in this convention, and I am satisfied, from what the Chairman of that committee has said to me, that they have enou.ah lo do without taking this ninller' under considera- tion. It will come back here to Ihe convention undouhledly in the iden- tical shape that it is now. I have every reason to believe I hat. Now, why not consider it at this time while we are here prepared to lake this legislative article up. it being pro|)erly a part of that article and not properly belonging lo any other conmiittee or to any other part of the constitulion. It seems to mo we ought to take it up and consider' it now in conneclion with the rest of the legislative deiiartmenls. Mr'. .loy, of Park: It seems lo me. fr'om the ar'gument made by the godleman from Lewis i.^- Clarke. Mr. Toole, that, he is in favor of dis- posing of this now. He suggests that the two committees are uncertain, and suggests what comiuittee this belongs to. and it seems to me we would be no liellei' off ,'uiii arrive no sooner at the certainly of Ihe thinu; CONSTITl IIO.NAL CONVENTION 1889 599 by referring it to some other committee. It would simply have tlie effei-t of clelayin? this matter and woulil take two or three days before it would come up asain in the Comniillee of the Whole. I suggest, Mr. Chair- man, that it is always proper, and a custom that is always followed in every constitution that under the heail of the Legislative Departments it shall be indicated of what number the two Houses shall consist — how many members — the same as it does in this case. I suggest. Mr. Chairman, tliat this matter to refer this section to another committee will delay it for some time, and I hope the committee will take this matter up now and dispose of it. and I hope we will proceed with it al. onc-e. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis &. Clarke: T think I ought to say to the committee that when this was reported back I had more than one inter- view with the Chairman of ihe Committee on ^Apportionment and Repre- sentation in regard to this matter, and was mformed by him that the Ciimmittee on Apportionment had assumed jurisdiction of the subject; and I came at once to the conclusion that if that committee had gone to work for the purpose of making an appor-tionment of the State, the most important consideration was. what number of persons should con- stitute the Legislative Assembly, and if by the action of the conven(ird, of Missoula: I would prefer to have a \fite taken on my motion. The motion of Ihe gentleman from Missoula was secondeil. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 601 Tlie Cliair put the question on the said motion of the gentlemau from Missoula, Mr. Bickfoid. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Section 5, as follows: "Sec. 5. Each member of the First Legislative Assembly, as a com- pensation for his services, shall receive six dollars for each day's attend- ance, and twenty cents for each mile necessarily traveled in going to and returning from the seat of government to his I'esidence by the usual trav- eled route, and shall receive no other compensation, perquisite or allow- ance whatever. No session of the Legislative Assembly after the first, which may bo ninety days, shall exceed sixty days. After the first session the compensation of the members of the Legislative Assembly shall be as proviilcd by law. I'rovided, that no Legislative Assembly shall fix it^ own compensation." Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I have an amendment to that section. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move to strike out the words "six dollars" and insert "ten dollars" on line 2. The motion was seconded. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I will state to the committee what amendments I desire to put in there. I am just drawing them up. I desire to amend by striking out of line 2 the word "six" as the per diem of the members of the Legislature, and inserting "five" in lieu thereof. I desire to strike out the word "twenty" and insert "ten", and add to the section after the word "before" "that whrre passes on railroads have been received by members that those members shall have no mileage whatever. Before they get their per diem they shall make affidavit — (interrupted). The Chairman: It will be necessary to draw that up and put it as a formal amendment in writing. The gentleman from Deer Dodge, Mr. Robinson, sent up his amendment in writing. The Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodge moves to amend Section -5 by striking out the word "six" and inserting "five", and striking out "twenty" in line two and inserting "ten": and inserting after the word "whatever" on line four as follows: "Provided that before any mileage shall be paid to any member of the Legislative Assembly, they shall take and subscribe an oath that they did not travel to the capital on any pass or free ticket." The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like to ask the gentleman if he will insert one other provision there which will commend it to my consid- eration, and that is that he shall include in that affidavit the fact that he has not also drank any free whiskey on the trip. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: 1 would ask the gentleman to insert that he shall also swear that the conductor did not fail to collect his fare. The Chairman: The amendment is divided into three subdivisions. The first will be in line two to erase the word "six" and insert the word "five". Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I think this is about the only proposition which should receive a little consideration, and so far as I am individually concerned, I am in favor of increasing the per diem of the members of the Legislature over the amount reported by the committee. I believe that every gentleman on this floor will admit that the members of the Legis- lature have not been paid as they should be for their services. They are the law-making power, and they should rrceive sufficient remuneration to pay their n-asonable expenses and not to look to anyone or to anybody for their remunei'alion. I believe that five dollars a day is not enougli. It is as little as the four dollars a day they receive now and (en d(}llars a day in my opinion is a very reasonable compensation for the services performed. We are getting out of this idea that members of the Legisla- ture should serve for nothing. It is a wrong idea in a republican form of government. That branch of the law-making power should be better paid, in fact, than the Executive or .ludiciary for the services rendered, and if we pay them better, it seems to me you will have purer and better laws. There will be less influence to bear upon the few who would be susceptible to influence. I believe that ten dollars a day is a fair com- pensation, and when my amendment is put before the committee I hope it will carry. (•i02 PROCEEDI.NCS AM) DEBATES Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstoin'; If the compeiisatinn di I he iiicmbcrs of l!i(> Ij'f^iislaluic is to he fixfd arcciriiiii^r to tlie valui- of tlii' scrvii'os ren- dfM'i'd, 1 believe llial tlie la.sl two or three l^egislaliires that ha\e eonxi-ned should not liave had aiiythius^, and I do not know b>it what that rule ought to apply to this coiivenlioii. 1 am not in favor ot increasing or de- (TPasinK the amount of per diem as fixed by this section. I think that six dollars will pay the legitimate expenses of any member of the Le^risla- ture. If he w"ants to indulge in the luxuries ot' life outside of that, let him pay it out of his own pocket. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: If wi' have fifty-five niemhei's of the House and sixteen members of the Senate, there will be an expen.*e of ■*'i26 per day for members alone, and when you come to run out the session to sixty or seventy or ninety days, we will find our Legislatures are going to be rather an e.xpensi\'e luxury. So far as the five dollars per diem is concerned, men do not come to the Legislative .\ssembly on account of tlie per rliem there is in it. The best men do not come for that purpose. You might .just as well say that the men who are here haxf come here for the four dollars a day that we get. I should think that tlie members of the convention who have come here for the pittance of four dollars a day would not come any quicker if they got ten dollars a day than they would if they got three dollars a day. It is not ttie auiount of money that induces the best class of men to come. Tliat is not the consideration at all. We cannot afford to pay a higher jirice than five dollars a ifay. 'I'hat would more than pay any man's expenses, depending on how much wliiske\ he drinks, on the character of the whiskey, or' where the capitol is. (Laughter) Such suggestions as the centleman from Custer County made, are well enough to burlesque and ridicule these things that we are trying to consider, but such suggestions are not compatilile with good sense. (Laugter) No one would entertain such a propositinn as that for a mo- ment. It is the correct course for this convention to pursue, and if a convention wants to be carried off by burlesque and ri,dicule and proposi- tions of (hat kind. I have nothing to say. I can stand what the balance can. But I am speaking in behalf of and in the interest of the State of Montana. I would like to see a large House, both SiMiati- and House of Representatives, and I would like to see them paid n^asonahly. If we can draw on the bank on the credit (d' the State and the gentleman from Lewis \- Clarke County will foot the bills, I will vote for the higher pay and you can run it as much higher as you like: but as the taxpayers of the State have got to foot these bills, I do not see any reason for raising tlie number of the Legislature or the compensation so mur'h higher than we can afford. I believe that five flollars a day is enougli. Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: No doubt it is a laudable incentive that has roused the gentleman from Deer Lodge into actixity, hut I fail to see the good that is to be derived from these wholesale am'endments. The gentleman here at one fell stroke has offered three amendments to this section and I believe that before he is through with this section he will need two or three lawyers to tell him where he stands in the matter. I think if we don't ha\e a care in this matter that we will have to refer back all this matter to the committee, and then all ot our deliberations will be fruitless. The Chair put the question on the first subdi^i^ion id' the anieiidment offered by the gentleman from Deec Lodge. Mr-. Robinson, ami a vote being taken the same was ileclai'ed lost. The Chairman: The question now comes up on the second sulidivision which is to strike nut. the word "twenty" in the sei'ond line and inser-f in lien (hereof the wm'd "ten". The Chair put I In' i|iii'stion on tin' second snlidixision ot the .-imendini'iit of the gentleman fr'orrr Deer Lodge, and a \o|e beiriL; ta]age shall be paid any member' of the Legislative Assembly, they shall take and subscribe an oath that they did not traxel to the capital on any pass 01' fr'ee ticket." The Chair put the iiiieslion on the Ihird subdivision ot the said aiiiend- ment offered by the gentleinaii from Dei'c Ijodge. and a xole being taken the sami' xvas declai'ed lost. .Ml'. Luce, of Callatin: I haxc .in .imeiKJiiienl. CONSTITUTION.VL CONVENTION 1889 603 The Chairman: There is one amendment still pending. The gentle- man from Cascade. Mr. Collins, moves to amend b.v increasing the per diem to ten dollai's per day. The gentleman from Gallatin now offers the following: Amend Section 5 as follows: First, strike out of line five the following words: "after the first, wliich may be ninety days'": second, out of the same line the word "sixty" ami insert in lieu thereof the word "ninety". So that the paragraph in lines four and five shall read "no session of the Legislative .\ssenibly shall exceed ninety days." There was no second to the amendment of the gentleman from Cial- latin, Mr. Luce. The Chairman: Is there a second to the amendment of the genth'man from Cascade"? The amendment of the gentlrman from Cascade was seconded Mr. Durfee. of Deer Lodge: 1 hope that motion will not prevail. I have made a little computation here of what the cost of our State gov- ernment \^ill be, and I find that, figuring the first session of the Legislative Assembly at ninety days, and the per diem at six dollars per day, and figuring the cost of our Judiciary and tlie various other State officers, it foots up to -^MO.O'iO. This does not include mileage. Now. then, I think we have adopted the provision in our article on taxation that the assess- ment for Slate purposes shall not exceed two and a half mills on the dollar. Now. then, if the assessed valuation of the Territory is SI 00.000.000, that would be S250.CKX) with which to run our State government, and we find that our expenses thus far aggregate the sum of $200,000. leaving us ^50.000 for incidentals. Now. where are we going to get the money from to pay for the expenses of our government? Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would say also. Mr. Chairman, that the expenses of the State will be about -SSOO.OOO. possibly a little over, but the revenue derived from the running of it will not all come from ad valorem taxes, ^^'e expect to get a good deal of revenue from other sources. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: The gentlemen have left one important item of taxable property out of their calculations. When Montana becomes a State we will have 820 miles of railroad that will be taxable that is not taxed now. The Chaii- put the question on the said amendment of the gentleman from Cascade, Mr. Collins, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I move to strike out in line -5 the words ■'after the first which may be ninety days." so that the clause will read, "no session of the Legislati\e Assembly shall exceed sixty days."' I will say in support of this that I beliexe sixty days will be ail the tim*> that will be necessary for the Le.gislative body to act. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Perhaps the reasons ought to be stated why that was made ninety days. It was thought that in view of the fact (hat the Enabling Act as well as the constitution itself provided that the Legislative Assembly should do certain things in the way of legislation, and that more particularly in view of the fact that the last Legislative Assembly provided for a Code Commission to codify the laws and present them to the first Legislati\e Assembly, that it will involve a little more time than the ordinary sessions of the Legislature. Tliere are three subdivisions of the Code that are now in the hands of the Code Commission and should be submitted at the first si'ssion of the Legislature, and we thought that this extra time ought to be given on that account. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: I will withdraw my motion and modify it. I will mo\e to strike out the words ninety and insert seventy-five. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I think it will be found that the first legis- lature will have all and mori^ than it can do in ninety days. The Enabling Act and this constitution if it should be adopted will necessitate the change of a great many of the laws that are now on the statute books to conform with the provisions of the con.stitution. P'or instance, the change of the Judiciary .system as it has been adopted will necessitate another change in the Probate Practice Act and there will be an enormous amount of work to do: that will be undoubtedly more than it will be possible for any Leg- islature to accomplisli in ninety days: and although I am in favor of the ordinary limitation of sixty days I am satisfied that the ordinary Legisla- 604 PROCEEDINGS? AM) DEBATES Imr r;miiol, do tlic work in Ii>ss than ninety days. And in connpctinn wifli wliat the trfntlMnan frtmi Lewis t^ Clarke said, the entire matter of this Code lliat will be sulimitled to the I.etrisiature by the Code Con'iiiission will have to be gone over chapter by ehapter and seetion by section, and any person who has ever been in the Leg-islalui'e can see what an enormous amount of work it is, and wtiat a time it will fake to get over it. I tio not think the amendment should prevail. The Chair i)ut the question of the said amendment offered by ihi> gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Clark, and a vote being taken thr same was declared lost. There being no furthi'i' amendmenis tn Section 5, the Clerk rc;ul Section 6 as follows: "Sec. (i. The Legislalive Assembly (except the first i shall meet at the seat of government at twelve o'clock noon, on the second Tuesday after the first Monday of January, next succeeding the general election pro\ iiied by law. and at twelve o'clock noon, on the second Tuesday afti'r the first Monday of .January of each alternate year thereafter, and at other times when convened by the Governor. The term of service of the members thereof shall begin the next day after their election, until otherwise pro- vided by law: provided that (he first Legislative Assembly shall meet upon the proclamation of the Governor, after the admission of (he State into the I^Tnion, upon a day to be named in said proclamation, and which shall not be more than fifteen noi' less (ban ten days after the admission of (he State into the Union.'' Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I desire to offer an amendment lo that section. On line seven after the word "meet" there ought to be inserted there "at the seat of the government." I move to insert those words. The motion was seconded. The Chair put (he question on the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Toole, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. ("larpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I move to strike out the words "the second Tuesday after" wherever they occur in the second and third lines. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. (Carpenter of Lewis i.t: Clake: T rio this for the reason that these words s'^em enlirely incongruous there. If will take a lightning calculator lo find out when Ihe Legislature meets. I b(>lievi' those woi'ds ought to tie stricken out so that it will read "the Legislature shall meet on the firs! Mondav in January." The only possible objection I can see to this, would be that some one might- think it will interfere about being at home New Year's day, but I ne^er knew an\ thing of that kind to interfere with Legislative duty. To make it plain and simple I move to strike out (hose words. The Chair put the question on the said motion of |he pcntli'iuan fmni Lewis iS; (Marke. >Ir. Carpenter, and a \(ilc being taken llie sanir was declared carried. There being no further amendmenis to Section (>. the r.lei'k i-rad Secliuii 7 as follows: ■'Sec. 7. No Senator or Representative shall. diU'iTig (lie Icrm for which he shall have been elected, be appointed (o any civil otfice under thr Slate: and no member of Congress or other person holding an office excrpl a((orne\ at law. nolary public, or in (he milKia uniler (he I'niled States or- this sla(e. shall be a member of eilher house during his contiiuiani'e in office." Th(>re being nu amendmenis to Section 7. tlie C.li'rk reail Secdon S as follows: "Sec. 8. No mendiei' ut eilher bouse shall, during the li'rni fnr which he shall have been eli'cled. I'eceive any incri'ase of salary cu' mileage under any law passed dui'inc; siich (erm." There being no ameiidmeni (n Secdun S, (he Clerli [•rwi] Seclion '.' as follows: "Sec. 9. The Senale shall, at the beginning and close of each regidar- session, and at such othei' time as may be necessary el(>ct one of its mem bers President pi'o tempore. The House of Representatives shall eh'ct one of its membei-s as Speaker. Each house shall choose ils idlier (d'ficei's. and sludl judge of (he elecdiins. relui'us and (lualifications. of its members." CONSTlTUTrONAL CONVENTION 1889 605 TlieiT bluing no anionilinrnt to Soction 9. (he Clerk read Section 10 as follows: "Sec. 10. A majority of eaeli hou.-ie shall eonstitute a quorum, to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and compel the attendaiuce of absent members in such manner and under such penal- ties as each house may prescribe." There being no amendment to Section 10 the Clerk read Section 11 as follows: "Sec. 11. Each house shall have powers to determine the ruli's of its proceedings, and punish it.s members or other persons for contempt or dis- orderly behavior in its presence: t.o protect its members against violence or offers of bribe, or private solicitation, and with the concurrence of two thirds to expel a member and shall have all otlier powers necessary for the Legislative Assembly of a free state. A member expelled for corruption, shall not thereafter be eligible to either house of the Legisla- tive Assembly and punishnipnt for contempt or disorderly behavior shall not bar a criminal prosecution for the same offense." Mr. Middleton of Custer: I desire to offer an amendment, I desire to insert in that section after the word "member" on line four the words "for corruption." They may expel a member for corruption, but I do not believe the Legislature has power to expel a member for anything else. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Middleton. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 11, the Clerk read Section 12 as follows: "Sec. 12. Each house shall keep a journal of its proceedings and may. in its discretion, from time to time, publish the same, except such parts as require secrecy, and the ayes and nays on any question, shall, at the request of any two members, be entei'cd on the journal." There being no amendment to Section 12, the Clerk read Section 13 as follows: "Sec, 13. The session of each house and of the committees of the whole shall be open, unless the business is such as requires secrecy." There being no amendment to Section 13. the Clerk read Section 1 i, as follows: "Sec. 14. Neither house shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in whicii the two houses shall be sitting" There being no amendment to Section 14, the Clerk read Section 15 as follows: "Sec. 15. The members of the Legislative .\ssemjily shall, in all ca;5es, except treason, felony, violation of their oath of office, and breach and surety of_the peace, be privileged from arrest, during their attendance at the session of their respective houses, and in going to and returning from the same: and for any speech or debate in idllier house they shall not be questioned in any other place." There being no amendment to Section 15. the Clerk read Section 16 as follows: "Sec. 16. The House of Representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment. Tlie concurrence of a majrn'ity of all the members shall be necessary to an impeachment. .Ml impeachment.s shall be tried by the Senate, and when silting for that purpose the Senators sliall be under oath or affirmation to do justice according to law and evidence. \\'hen the Governor or Lieutenant Governor is on trial, the chief justice of the Supreme Coui-t shall preside. No person shall be convicted without a concurrence of two-thirds of the senators elected." Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis it Clarke: I would like to ask my colleague from Lewis & Clarke. Goxernor Carpenter, whether that is consistent with the provision that went into the Juiliciary article. Sir. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: There was nothing done with it. I offered an amendment but withdrew it because it was provided for here. There being no amendment to Section 16. the Clerk read Section 17 as follows: "Sec. 17. The Governor and other Sl^te and Judicial officers, except county judges and justices of the peace, shall be liable to impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors or malfeasance in office, but judgment in such cases shall only extend to removal from office and disqualification to hold any office of honor, (rust or profit in the State. The jiarty, cm PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES whether convii'ted or acquiltfil. sh:ill, iii'vei'tlieless. be Inililc In iiiosi'imiIIdh. trial juclKiiiPiil, and ijuiiishini'iil ^u-i-ordiiif: to law Mr. liurleij^h of Custer: On line two section 17, I inov(! to strike out "county judges" before the word "justices." There are no county judges known to the constitution. The motion was seciuidril. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, .Mr. Burleigh, and a vole being taken the same was declared cui'ried. There being no further amendments to Section 17, the Cleik read Sec- tion 18 as follows:, "Sec. 18, All officers not liable to impeachment shall be subject to removal for misconduct or malfeasance in office, in such manner as may be prii\ided by law." There being no ameudinciil lo .'-^i-ctinn 18. the Cli'ck read Si'dinn \9 as follows: "Sec. id. No law shall br passed except by bill, and no bill shall be so altered or amended on its passage through either house as to change its original purpose." There being no ameudmeni to Section 19, the Clerk read Section 20 as follows: "Sec, 20. The enacting clause of every law shall be as fullows: 'Be it enacted by the Legislative Asseiidily of the State of Montana"." There being no amendment to Section 20 the Clerk read Section 21 as follows: "Sec. 21. No bill for the appropriation of money, except for the r\- penses of the government shall be iidroduced within ten days of the close of the session, except by imaninn)us consent of the houS(i jn which it is sought to be introduced." Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge; I have a substiluti> to offer for Section 21. Tlie Chairmam: The gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr, Winston, moves to strike out Section 21, and insert in lieu thereof the following: "Sec, 21. No act of the Legislative Assembly except a general appropri- ation act shall take effect or go into force until sixty days after ttie adjournmeid. of the session at \\liich it was enacted, unless in case of emeigency which emergency must be expressed in the preamble or the body of the act, unless the Legisialive .\ssembly shall by a vote of twii-tliii'(ls of all the members elected to each house, otherwise direct, .Nn hill shall be introdiiced in either house after the ex|)iration of fifty days from the commencement of the session without the unanimous consent of the mem- bers thereof." The motion was seconded. .Mr. Winston of l>eer I^odge: It is simply the section that was in the constitution of 1881, and I was in favor of inserting it as one of the committee when the committee had it und(>r consideration, and I believe it would be well to insert it here. It pro\ides when the law shall take effect except in cases of emergenc>', and tin' law as it nnw stands says that it shall take effect at the seat of government the day it is i)assed and that there shall be one day allowed for each fifteen miles. People don't know exactly what the difference is between the seal of govermnj-nt and otlier places. It would give rise to confusion, and it seems to me that it is well enough Jo provide when these laws shall go into effect, so tliat everybod>' will know when they do go into effect. And it is well to insert it here: and as for the section providing that no bill for the appropi'iation of money shall be introduced after the expiration of fifty days, it is simply the same as In the si^ction, excejit it says ten days here. It is virtually the same. Mr. Hai'Inian nf (lallatin: It seems to me therr are xcry si'rious objec- tions to that clause which says that no bill shall he introduciMl after fifty days. I understand that the constitution pi'ovitles tliat the first Legislature shall sit ninety days. Mr. Clai-k of Silver Bow: In tliat case, Mr. Chairman, om- man could block all legislation aftei- llie lifly days, anil if it was ninrty days' session they w'liuld have nothing In lin. i am in favor of th(> amendment willi Ih" ex(u>ption of lliat pait. II the gi'nileman will make that ten days I will vote foi' it. Mr. .MiddletoM of Custer: I would say. .Mr. Chairman, thai as to this niatler of the law not taking effect until sixty days after it is passed, the ipiestion was very fully discussed In lii>th houses of the Legislatui'e last CONSTITUllO.NAI. CONVENTIOX I.S8ii 607 winlor. Tlic law at lliat time proxiiloii that ads should take cl'lecl at tin- scat of jxoveniinent iimiiediately and at other places there should be one day allowed for every fifteen miles of distnnee. and I believe that was introduced to amend that or rather to appeal if. so that the law should take effeef in all parts of (lie territory as of the date of the passage, unless otherwise provided in the act itself, and there were some two or three substitute and ami'ndments offered in both houses to that, and it finally passed in that shape. I think it would in many eases work a pood deal of hardship as it now exists. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: If the gentleman is willing to amend that, instead of having it fifty days, within ten days after the time of the adjourn- ment. I am in favor of the amendment offered by the gentleman for the leason that to make a law effecti\e from and after its passage might work a great hardship. A man might commit an infraction of the law and not know it and life is loo short to be figuring out one day for each fifteen miles on an action in cotu't. I believe in doing away with all such trifling con.plications as that. The Chairman: If the gentleman will pardon me one moment it was undei-slood that permission was granted to the gentleman to modify his substitute. Ml'. Burleigh of Custer- This matter has been left to the Legislature before, and we have had no trouble. There has been no embarrassment and nobody has -suffered for want of knowledge of the law; and as this is a matltr which belongs purely to the Legislature and has been exercised by the Legislature, it seems to me it should be left for the Legislature. Of ccui'se, it is perfectly proper for the Legislature to make any laws that it sees fit. and I don't see any necessity for stopping here to insert it in the constitution. The Chairman: The substitute as modified reads as follows: "No act of the Legislative Assembly except the General Appropriation Act shall take effect or go into force until sixty days after the adjournment of the se.sfioii at v\liich it was enacted, unless in case of emergency: which emer- gency shall be expressed in the preamble or in the body of the act. the Leirislntive Assembly shall by a vote of two thirds of all the members elected to each house otherwise direct. .No bill shall be introduced in either hinise within ten days of the close of the session without the unanimous consent of the members thereof." It is moved and seconded that this be adopted. Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: I do not exactly know that I understanil that, but it might be that that would conflict with what might be called local option laws: it might be that sometimes the Legislature would want to pass a law which shall take effect upon the happening of some event, such as vote of the people, or pass a law for the changing of a county seal, which shall take effect upon the vote of the people, or by proclamation of the Oovernor. and I am not sure that that would not conflict with it. -Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: No: it is less. It provides that it shall b^' less: it does not provide positively that it shall take effect in sixty days, bu' still I don't know hut that construction might be placed upon it. .Mr. Graven of Lewis & Clarke: I simply rise to suggest that there are pi-ovisions in this clause which would be vei'v embarrassing in case of extra session called by ithe (ioxernor, which sessions are pro- vided for in this proposition. If you cannot introduce any bill within ten days of the close of the session except by unanimous consent, some individual might block the procei'dings in every extra session that was called, so that nothing could be accomplished. The Chairman: The ijuestion is on the adoption of the substitute. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the said substitute and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: I may be pardoned. I would say that the same objection portends to the matter as it is. It seems the com- mittee ought to take charge of that and see that the difficulty is obviated. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I think that the suggestion that the gentleman makes is a very good one. and I move you that after the w^ord "session" in line two. Section 21. or before the word "session'' to insert the words "any regular" and strike out the word "the", making it "any regular session." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. COS PROCEEDINOf: AND DEBATES Mr. Muth of Lewis & Clarke: This section applies only to bills for the appropriation of money and not to bills of a general character, and is insri'ted here by the connniltee fo obviate the possibility of the Legislature in the last days of its session rtiiinhig through bills fnp the appropriation of money. It applies to nothing else, but simply t was declared cari-ied. There being no further amendmeids to Section 23. the Clerk read Section 24 as follows: "Sec. 24. No bill shall become u. law. except by a vote of a majority of all the members present in each house nor unless on its final passage the vote be taken by ayes and nays, and the names of those voting be entered on the journal." Mr. \\'inston of Deer f/idge: I move to strike out the words "present in" and insert the words "elected to". 1 do not think that the majority of the members present in each house should be able to pass a bill. Thei'c is a provision here that prescribes that when members are absent they shall lie In'ought into the house, ;uid I am certainly in favor of that amenilmmit — striking out the words "present in" and inserting the words "eliicted to.' The molion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. Mr. Winston, and a ilivision being called for Ihe same was declared cai-ried by a vote of thirty-nine in the affirmati\e to twenty-six in the negative. There bein^r no rurther nnienihnenis to Section 2'i. the Clerk read Section 25 as follows: "Sec. 25. No law shall be revised or amended, or the ijrovisions thereof extended, by reference to its title only, but so much thereof as is revised, amended, or extended, shall be re-enacted and published at li'ngth." 'I'here lieing no amemlmenl to Seclinn 2.'J lhi» Clerk read Section 26 as follows: CONSTrTrriOXAT, ('.(invention ISS'.t 609 "Sec. 20. The Legislative Assembly shall not pass local or special laws in any of the fullowingi enumerated cases, that is to say: For granting divorces, laying out, opening, altering or working roads or highways, vacating roads, town plats, streets, alleys or public grounds; locating or changing county seats: regulating county or township affairs: regulating the practice in courts of justice; regulating the jurisdiction and duties of justices of the peace, police magi.-itrates, dv constables; changing the rules of evidence in any trial or inquiiy; providing for changes of venue in civil or criminal cases: declaring any person of age; for limita- tion of civil actions, or giving effect to informal or invalirl deeds; summon- ing or impanelling grand or petit juries: providing for the management of common schools: regulating the rate of inli'i-est on money; the opening or conducting of any election, or designating the place of voting: the sale or mortgage of real estate belonging to minors or others under disability: chartering or licensing ferries or bridges or toll roads: remitting fines, penalties or forfeitures: creating, increasing or decreasing fees, percent- age, or allowances of public officers; changing the law of descent: grant- ing to any corporation, association, or individual, the right to lay down railroad tracks, or any special or exclusive privilege, immunity, or fran- chise whatever; for the punishment of crimes, changing the names of persons or places: for the assessment or collection of taxes: affecting estate of deceased persons, minors, or others imder legal disabilities: extending the time for the collection of taxes: refunding money paid int/) the State treasury: reliniiuishing or extinguishing, in whole or in part, the indebtedness, liability, or obligation of any corporation or pei"son to this state, or to any municipal corporation therein legalizing, except as against the state, the unauthorized or invalid act of any officer: exempt- ing property from taxation: restoring to citizenship persons convicted of infamous crimes; authorizing the creation, extension, or impairing of liens; creating offices, or prescribing the powers and dvities of officers in counties, cities. tov\nishi[is. election or school districts: or authorizing the adoption or legitimation of children. In all other cases where a gen- eral law can be made applicable no special law shall be enacted." Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis it Clarke: I would like to get the sense of the convention upon this question, line 13. On line 13 after the words "granting to any corporation" in«ert the words "banking, insurance or loan ami trust companies." I move that that be inserted. The motion was secomled. The Chairman: The gentleman moves io amend by inserting in line 13 after the word "corporations" the words "banking, insurance or loan and trust companies." so that it will read "granting to any corporation, banking, insurance or loan and trust companies, association or individual, the rght to lay down railroad tracks, or any special or exclusive privilege, immunity or franchise whatever." Mr. Goddard. of Yellowstone: Banking, insvu-ance and loan and trust companies don't ordinarily lay tracks. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Hershfield. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I would like to ask the meaning of one word that I see in here that I don't comprehend. It is on line 2i. The word "legitimation", I want to vote for that if I know what that word means. Laughter The Chairman: There is nothing pending before the committee. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I move to amend by striking out that word and making it "legitimatizafion ". As that word is now I don't know what it means. The motion was seconded. The (chairman: The gentleman moves to strike out the word "legitimation" and insert "legitimatization". Laughter Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I had some doubt about the vwird myself, but Webster defines the word "legitimation" as the act of rendering legiti- mate. I guess the word as it is is about as proper a word as you can get. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr. Robinson, and a vote beng taken the same was declared lost. 610 pro(:eedings and debates Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: In line 20, I move to stiike out the words "legalizing, except as against the State, the unauthorized or the invalid art. of any officer. " .Now. as a general proposition, it is all right as it is, but in the case of remedies to prevent wrongs, it is often proper and uniform, and therefore, an illegal act of an officer should be validated. Therefore, I move to strike Ihose words out. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of llie gentleman from liewis & Clarke. Mr. Carpenter, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I think in the same relation the words "or giving effect to informal or invalid deeds" in lines 7 and 8 should be stricken out. I move to strike those words out. The motion was siconded The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I do not see, Mr. Chairman, how it does any good to strike any particular ilems out in this enumeration unless yon go farther and strike out the last paragraph in the act which pro\ides that '"any and all other cases where a general law could be made aiiplicable." In reference to the particular subject the gentleman speaks of, it could be cured by general deed touching all informalities nf that particular kind, and so if it could be brought within the the meaning of the last paragraph it would be covered whether it is inserted in here or not. Mr. Carpenter, of lycwis & Claike: .My desire was to a\-oid to a certain extent the mischief of the general laws in applying to particulai- cases. You have got to change the law every time you meet a particular emer- gency. More mischief is caused by that than by passing a special act. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis i^ Clarke, Mr. Carpenter, and a division being called fni-, the same was declared lost, by a vote (if Iweiily-three in the affirmati\e In twi-nty- four in the negative. There being no furthi'r amendments to ■Section -'(i. the Clerk read Section 27, as follows: "Sec. 27. The presiding officer in each hou^fe shall, in the presence of the house over which he presides, sign all hills and joint resolutions passed by the Legislative Assembly immediately after their titles have been publicly read: and the fact of signing shall be at once entered upon the journal." There being no amendment In Section 27, the Clerk read Section 28, as follows: "Sec. 28. The Legislative Assembly shall prescribe by law the num- ber, duties and compensation of the (iflic<'rs and employes (d' each house; and no payment shall be made from the State Treasury, or be in any way authorized to any such person, except to an acting officer or employe elected or appointed in pursuance of law." There being no amendment to Section 28, the Clerk read Section 29, as follows: "Sec. 29. No bill shall be passed giving, any extra compensation to any public officer, si'rvant, or employe, agent, or contractor, after services shall have been reiuier-ed op contract made, nor providing for the payment of any claim against, tlie State without previous authority of law,' except as may be otherwise pi'ovided herein." There being no amendment (o Section 29. the Clerk read Section :i0. as follows: "Sec. 30. All stationery, printing, paper, fuel and lights used in llii' legislative or other departmeids of government, shall be furnishetl. and the printing and binding and distribution of the laws, journals and depart nieid, reports and other printing anil idnding. and the repairint; and rurnisbiiig the halls and rooms used for the meeting of the L(>gislative .\ssembly. and its committees, shall be performed under contract, to he given to the lowest bidder, below such maximum pi'ice and under such regulations as may be prescribed i)y law. No member or officer of any department of the governmeni shall be in any wise interested in any such contract: and all such contracts shall be subject to the approval of the Governor and State Treasurer." There being no amendment to Section .'50, the Clerk read Section 31, as follows: "Sec. 31. Except as otherwise provided in this constitution, no law shall extend the term of any priblic officer, or increase or diminish his CONSTITUTIONAL CONTENTION 1889 611 salary or emoluments after his election or appointment; provided, that this shall not be construed to forbid the Legislative Assembly from fixing the salaries or emoluments of those officers first elected or appointed under this constitution, where such salaries or emoluments are not fixed by this constitution. There being no amendment to Section 31, the Clerk read Section 32. as follows: ■'Sec. 32. All bills for raising rp^ enue shall originate in the House of Representatives: but Uie Senate may propose amendments, as in the case of oth'-r bills." Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis i^ Clarke: I move to strike out Section 32. I see no reason whatever for having this section here. The motion was seconded. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: The Senators and members of the House of Representatives are the same. Each body has the same interest in all bills, and I see no reason why one house should be preferred to the other. Mr. J. Iv. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I do not know myself unless it was ill the rule prevailing so far as the Congress of the United States is rcncerned. and perhaps that also in the Senate, that one-half of the body is continued over from year to year, and that it might be supposed they would have more information respecting the money that was necessary to administer the affairs of government. I do not think there was any consultation about it in committee one way or the other. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Carpenter, and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty-five in the affirmative to thirty-one in the negative. There being no further amendments to Section 32, the Clerk read Section 33. as follows: "Sec. 33. The geneial appropriation bills shall embrace nothing but appropriations for the ordinary expenses of the executive, legislative and judicial departments of the State, interest on the public debt, and for public schools. All other appropriations shall be made by separate bills, each embracing but one subject." There being no amendment to Section 33. the Clerk read Section 34, as follows: "Sec. 34. No money shall be paid out of the treasury, except upon appropriations made by law. and on warrant drawn by the proper officer in pursuance thereof." There being no amendment to Section_3i. the Clerk read Section 35, as follows: "Sec. 35. No appropriations shall be made for charitable, industrial, educational or benevolent purposes to any person, corporation or com- munity not under the absolute control of the State, nor to any denom- inational or sectarian institution or association." There being no amendment to Section 35, the Clerk read Section 36, as follows: "Sec. 36. The Legislative .Assembly shall not delegate to any special commission, private corporation or association any power to make, super- vise or interfere with any municipal improvement, money, property or effects, whether held in trust or otherwise, or to levy taxe.s. or to perform any municipal function whatever. There being no amendment to Section 36. the Clerk read Section 37. as follows: "Sec. 37. No act of the Legislative Assembly shall authorize the investment of trust funds by executors, administrators, guardians or trustees in the bonds or stock of any private corporation." There being no amendment to Section 37. the Clerk read Section 38, as follows: "Sec. 38. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to pass any law authorizing the State, or any comity in (his State, to contract any debt or obligation in the construction of any railroad, nor give or loan its credit to or in aid of the construction of the same." There being nn amendment to Section 38. the Clerk read Section 39. as follows: "Sec. 39. No obligation or liability of any person, association oi- corporation, held or owned by the State, or any municipal corporation therein, shall ever be exchanged, transferred, remitted, released or post- U12 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES poned, or in any way diminished by the Legislative Assembly; nor shall such liability or obligation be extinguished, except by the payment there- of into thi^ Dniper Ireasiuy.' There being no amendment to Section 39, tlie Clerk read Section 40, as follows: "Sec. 40. Every order, resolution or vote, in which the concurrence of botti houses may be necessary, except on the question of adjournment, or relating solely to the transaction of the busin(>ss of the two houses, shall be presented to the Governor, and before it shall take effect be approved by him. or. being disapproved, be repassed by two-thirds of both houses, as prescribed in the case of a bill." There being no amendment to Section 40, the Clerk read Section 41, as follows: "Sec. 41. If any person elected to either house of the Legislative Assembly shall offer or promise to give his vote or influence in favor of or against any measure or proposition, pending or proposed to be intro- duced into the Legislative Assembly, in considi-ration or upon condition that any other person elected to the same Legislative .Assembly will give. or will promise or assent to give, his vote or influence in favor of or against any other measure or proposition, pending or proposed to be intro- duced into such Legislative Assembly, the person making such offer or promise shall be deemed guilty of solicitation of bribery. If any member of the Legislative Assembly shall give his vote or influence for or against any measure or proposition, pending or proposed to be introduced into such Legislative Assembly, or offer, promise or assent so to do, upon con- dition that any other member will give, or will proomise or assent to give his vote or influence in favor of or against any other mea.-iuri' or i)rop- osition. pending or pro[iosed to be introduced in such Legislative Assem- bly, or in consideration that any other member hath given his vole or influence for or against any otlier measure or proposition in such Legis lative Assembly, he shall be" deemed guilty of bribery, and any member of the Legislative Assembly, or person elected thereto, who shall be guilty of eitherof such offenses, shall be expelled, and shall not thereafter be eligible to the Legislative .Assembly, and. on the conviction thereof in the civil courts, shall be liable to such further penalty as may he prescribed by law." Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I move to strike out Section 41. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman fi'om Custer, Mr. Middleton. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 41. the Clerk read Section 42, as follows: "Sec. 42. Any person who shall directly or indirectly offer, give or promise, any money or thing of value, testimonial, iirivilege or personal advantage, to any executive or judicial officer, or member of the Legisla- tive Assembly, to influence him in the performance of any of his official or public duties, shall be deemed guilty of bribery, and be punished in such manner as shall be piovided by law." There being no amendment to Section 42. the Clerk read Section 43. as follows: "Sec. 43. The offense of ( orrupt solicitation of members of the Legis- lative .Assembly, or of public officers of the Slate, or of any municipal division thereof and the occupation or iii'actice of solicitation of such membeirs or officers to influence their official action, shall he defined by law, and shall be punished by fine and imprisonment.'" There being no amendment to Section 43, the Clerk read Section I'l. as follows: "Sec. 44. A member who has a personal or private interest in any measure or bill proposed or pending before the Legislative Assembly shall disclose the fact to the house of which he is a member, and shall not vote thereon." Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: 1 wish to offer an additional section. Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: I have an additional section to be called Section 4r). The Chairman: The gentleman from Choteau, Mr. Conrad, offers the follow'ing |o be numbered Section 'i.5: CONSTlTUnONAL CONVENTION 1889 (513 "The Legislature sliall provide for a State Examineir who shall i)e appointed by the (ioveriior and eonf'irined by the Senate. His duty shall be tu examine the accounts of the State Treasurer, Supreme Court Clerks, District Court Cler!-;s and all County Treasurers, and Treasurers of such other public institutions as may he prescribed by law. He shall report at least once a year and ofteneir if required to such officer as may be designated by the Legislature. His compensation shall be fixed by law." Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: [ move the adoption of that section. The motion v;as seconded. The Chairman: The followiixg- is also introduced as a proposed section to be numbered Section 45. "Sec. 45. When vacancies occur in either house the GoM-rnor or a person o.ercising the fimctions of the Ciovernor shall issue writs of election to fill the same." Offered by Winston. Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: I move th(^ adoption of the section. The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: In regard to lh(> m'otion offered by the gentleman from Choteau County I desire to say— i interrupted) The Chairman: I will say to the gentleman that this substitute or proposed new section last read is now before the house. Mr. Winston, of Deer Lodge: t think the constitution has iireviously provided that any vacancy in a state office shall lie filled by appointment. There is also an article that provides that when any county office is vacated i)y death, resignation or otherwise, that the proper parties shall appoint but there is nowhere in this constitution a provision for the filling of vacancies in the Legislative .Assembly, and for that reason I offer that section. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr. Winston, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Conrad, of (;hotcau: I renew my motion on the adoption of the section which I introduced, and desire to have it numbered i6. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: IV'ow, Mr. Chairman, I desire to say regard- ing this motion made by my friend from Choteau County that it provides for the creation of one of the most important offices under this constitu tion. We have suffered immeasurably in a great many ways, and have been greatly inconvenienced for want of an officer of this character, and I think a State Examiner, with duties defined, as defined in this section, should be provided for in this constitution, I am satisfied that it will save the 'J'erritory a large amount of money. It will quiet the public mind in regard to public officers, and it will tend to keep the accounts of our public officers straight, if not entirely so, at least more so than they are now. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Mr. President, I believe we should adopt this in our constitution. There is not another officer named in the constitu- tioii who has the time even, if the authority was conferred upon him by law, to perform the duties specified. It is necessary that someone should perform those duties, and I hope that the section will carry. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I am very much in favor of that office being created by the constitution. Those states that have a Public Exam- iner have in a very short time seen the benefit that is to be derived from that kind of an officer. I know in the State of Minnesota when they first enacted the law there providing for a Public Examiner, during the first two years the whole system of accounts in the different counties in the State were revolutionized, and it was found in some of the counties that the accounts were being kept in such shape that no human being could fell how the county stood financially. There wa.s also some such state of affairs in relation lo the State officers. I believe it is an office that should be created and a good compensation fixed for it, so as to secure the most competent service that can be had in the State. I do not know, however, that it is a matter that shoiild be added as a section in this proposition, but shoukj certainly be provirled in this constitution somewhere. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I would say to the gentleman that I offered a resolution which was referred to the Executive Committee and was by them overlooked. I asked Major Maginnis what action was taken on it, and he said it laid on his desk, and that he had forgotten to bring it before the committee (514 I'UOCKKDI.ViiS AND DEBATES .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would like to sugg-ost as nil ami'iidnifnt, with the consent of the gentleman, to add after the word "law" the words "and such other duty as shall be prescribed by law." The Legislature may provide that he shall do such other duties. .Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: 1 accept that amendnienl. The Chairman: The section is amended by consent so as to read a.* lollows: "The Legislature shall provide for a Stale Kxaininer who shall be appointed by the Governor and ccnifirmed by the Senati'. His duties shall be to examine the accounts of the State Treasurer, Su|)reme Court Clerks, District Court Clerks, and all County Treasurei's, and Treasui-ers of such other public institutions as may be prescribed by law. and such other duties as the Legislative Assembly may prescribe. He shall report at least once a year and oftener if required, to such officers as may be designated by the Legislature. His compensation shall be fi.xed by law." 'J'he Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from C.boteau, Mr. Conrad, and a vote being taken the sam« was declared I'arried. Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis i: Clarke: I would like to ha\e the following inserted in Section 20. In line 11 after the word "charier" and before the word "or" insert the following words: "Hanks, insurance companies or loan and trust companies," so that it shall read, beginning with line 11, "To minors or other under disaljility: Charteiing banks, insurance com- panies or loan ami trust companies or licensing ferries or bridges or toll roads." I make that motion. 'Jbe motion was seconiied. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis & Clarke: In looking over this schedule I find there is nothing said in regard to these institutions, and it is very important that the Legislature shall not be permitted to grant special charters for an institution of that kind, but should act under Ihe general law. 1 think it is quite proper that it should be inserted. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Hershfield, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried .Mr. Marrion, of Missoula: I desire to offer an amendment to Section 'JO. In line five insert the word.s "and most responsible" after the word "lowest", and before the word "bidder", so that it shall read "to be given to the lowest and most responsible bidder." The motion was secondeil. The Chair stated the motion. The Chair put the question on Ihe said motion of Ihe gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Marrion, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr Hickman, of Madison: I desire to offer an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Madison offers an amendment to Section 1 bv adding thereto the words "except interest upon the public debt." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I thought that I could di.scover where a Treasurer might be hampered in paying coupons upon jjublic debts out- side of the Slate, when he had an agency in New York for paying the coupons there. If I hey were required to be all paid here it would be a different thing, but if the coupons were tliere and the interest on the public debt had to be paid there in New York wherc^ the bonds were held, or might be paid, then he would not know what amount lo ba\e a warrant drawn for. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: The gentleman from Madison is quite correct. The insertion ought lo be made and I hope the motion will carry. 'J'he Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Madison. Ml. Hickman, and a vote being taken Ihe same was declared carried. Mr. Joy. of Park: I move you, sir, that this commillec rise, and report back Proposition No. 19 with the recommendation llial il do pass as amended. The nioticm was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. CONSTITUTIONAT. CONVENTION 1880 615 Mr. Ctark of Silvor Bow: In line 11, Section 26. I presume the object of the clause in reference to chartering or licensinn feri'ies or bi'idges or toll roatis. was to prevent chartering these companies. Now, the effect of the amendment of Mr. Hershfield. which has heen adopted, takes away the effect of the. word "chartering" upon the words "ferries, bridges or toll roads," and it reads the way it is now "chartering banks, insuiance or loan and trust companies, or licensing ferries, bridges or toll roads." It takes the effect of the words "chartering" from the words "ferries, bridges and toll roads." Now, I move to amend that section by leaving line 11 as it stands in the printed copy and inserting after the word "bridges" these words "chartering banks, insurance companies and loan and trust companies." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: It is Mr. Hersbfield's amendment precisely, only it makes a separate clause of it. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis i*c Clarke: Thei'e will be no objection to that, I accept the amendment. Mr Clark, of Silver Bow: Of course, the amendment contemplates striking out the words inserted in the original amendment offered by Mr. Hershfield as they were then inserted. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Clark, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Joy, of Park: I move you, sir. that the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of Ihe gentleman from Park, Mr. .Joy, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN CONVENTTO.V. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Mr. President, the Connnittee of the Whole have had under consideration Propositon .No. 19. and have directed me to report back the same with amendments. I would like reasonable time to prepare the report. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of tlie Whole reports that he has been instructed to repiirl back Proposition Xo. 19, with the amendment? as adopted, with the lecommendation that they be passed, and he asks further time in which to prepare his report. If there be no objection this will be granted. Ml'. Reek, of Deer Lodge: I move you that we now reconsider the votv by which Section 4, Proposition No. 27, was lost. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: I rise to a point of order. The gentleman voted with the minority and he cannot vote to reconsider. Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge: Yes sir, I voted against the measure. Mi-. Burleigh, of Custer: I would inquire if the ayes and nays were t.'.ken upon the question. The President: The Chair understands that the vote which the gen.tle- man ilesires to have reconsidered was the vote by which Section 4 was indefinitely postponed Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I would like to see mi which side of the (loestion the gentleman voted. The President: The Clerk informs the Chair that the gentleman voted in the affirmative with the majority. Tlie question is upon the motion to reconsider. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I move to lay that motion on the table. rhe motion was seconded. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: On that motion I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there b(> no objection the ayes and nays will be fntered on the journal. The question is on the motion to reconsider the vote by w^hich the consideration of Section 4, Proposition No. 27, was indefinitely postponed. GIG i'ii()(;i;i;i>i.\(;s and mebatks Ttie Clerk lead saiil Stn-tpin 1, Proposition No. 27. being tin" substitute offered by Hie jrentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Dixon, for Hie information of llie convention. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: tircen. Browne. Buford. BuUard. Burns. A. F.: Burns. A. J.; Burns. Edward: Callaway, (llicssnian. ColUns. Craven. Dyer, Katou. (iibson, Haininond, Harlnian. Hickman, Hogan, Joy, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Magin- iiis. MavKcr. Pai'hri i\ . Hobinson, Rotwitl, Sargent, Stapleton, Witter, Mr. I'rcsident— 30. Nays: Aiken. Bickford, Buileigh, (Tardwell, Carpenter, Cauby. Conrad, Cooper. Courtney. Dixon, fields, Durfee, Oaylord, (ioddard. Haskell, Hatch, Hi'rslifielrt, Hobson, Joycs, Kanoiise. Kiiowles. Kobrs, Loud. Liicc. .Marrion, Marshall, McAdovv, Middleton, .Mitchell, Mutli. Myers, Hamsdell, Reek, Schmidt, Toole. .los. K.: Toole. .J. K.: Warren, WaLsouy Whitehill, Win- ston— -40. Absent: Brazleton, Graves, (lillette, Rickards, \\'elbster — 5. The Chair announced (he \ofe and declared the ntotion to lay on the table lost. The President: The question now is to reconsider the motion by which Section 4 was indefinitely postponed. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I call for the ayes and nays. ■ The President: If there be no objection, the ayes and nays will be entered on the joiu-nal. The Clerk called tin' roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken. Bickford. Bui'leigh. Cardwell, Carpenter, (iauby, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, (iaylord, Goddard, Haskell, Hatch, Hersh- field, Hobson, joyes, Kanouse, Knowles, Kohrs, Loud, Luce, Marshall, McAdow, Middleton, Mitchell, Muth, .Myers, Ramsdell. Reek, Schmidt, Toole, Jos. 1\.; Toole, J. R.; Warren, While-hill, Winston— 37. Nays — Breen, Browne. Buford. Bullard. Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. J.; Burns, Edward: Callaway, Chessman, Collins, Craven, Dyer, Eaton, Fields, Gibson, Hammond, Hartman, Hickman, Hogan, Joy, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Maeinnis, Marrion, .Mavger, Parberrv, Robinson, Rotw'itt, Sargent, Stapleton, Watson, Witter. Mr. President-33. .Vbsent: Brazleton, (iillette. Graves, Rickards, Webster — 5. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to reconsider the vote cairied. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: Mr. President, I move that Section 1, Propo- sition No. 27, be placed on its final passage, and on that I move the previous question. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I do' not want to make any speech. I just want to make a suggestion. Three members have gone home today and one yesterday w'ho would like to vote on this proposition and vote upon the side that" I would vote upon. Now, if you can settle it now positively and forever, I am perfectly willing to do it, but I thnk a majority of the convention should settle this, and I make the suggestion that we take the \ote on (his proposition on T'uesday at 10 o'clock and end it one wav or the other. ' Mr. Middlelon, of Custer: There are only five memhei-s absent, Mr. President. Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I will say, Mr. President, that if this propo- i-itlon is lost now. I shall say no more about it, and I believe I am the originator of the proposition. Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: I move that the consideration of this propo- sition be postponed until Wednesday morning at 10 o'clock. The President: The question now before the convention is shall (he main question be now put. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: CO.NSTITL TIO.NAI. CONVENTION" 1889 617 Ayes: Biekford. Breen. BLiUaid, Burleigh. Onrdwoll, Carpmiter, Conrad, Cooiier. Dixon. Dnrfee. Fields. Gaylord. (ioddard. Haskrll. Hatch. Hob.son, Joyes, Kanouse. Knowles, Luce, r.oud, Marrion. Marshall, MeAdow.Middletoii, Mitchell. Muth. Myers. Ram.-^dell. Schmidt. Toole. Jos. K.; Watson. White- hill. Winston — 35. Nays: Aiken. Browne. Bufurd. Burns. A. F.: Burns. A. J.: Burns. Ed- ward; Callaway. Cauhy. Chessman. Collins. Courtney. Craven. Dyer. Eaton, Gibson. Hammnnd. Hartman. Hershfield. Hickman. Hogan. .Joy. Kennedy, Knippenberg. Magimiis, Mavger. Parberrv. Reek. Robinson. Rotwitt. Sararent. Stai)lelon. Toole. J. R.: Warren. Witter. Mr. President— 35. Alisent: Brazlelon. (iillette. Graves. Riokards. Webster — 5. The Chair aniiounceil (lie vdle and declared the motion of the previous question lo>M. Mr. Eaton, of Park: 1 mo\c that the further consideration of this aniei'dmenl be made a special order for Thursday morning al. 10 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the mofon. Mr Collins, of Cascade: I would suggest that it he postponed, instead of being made a s|iecial order. Mr. I-^aton. of Pai'k: I accept llial amendment. The PiesidenI : The question is on the postponement of Ihe further consideration of Section 'i of Article on Revenue and Taxation until Thurs- day morning at 10 o'clock. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I move to ann-nd by making it Tui'sday. y\v. Eaton, of Park: T have no objecilon. The President: The question then is on the molion to postpone the further consideration of Ihe section imtil Tuesday morning at 10 o'clock. Th ; Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Park. Mr. Eaton, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Eaton, of Park: I desire to ask permission to report as the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole on Pi-oposition No. 19. The President: If there be no ob.jection the report of the Chairman on Legislative Departments will be received. .Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I move that the convention now resolve itself into the Committee of the Wohle for the consideration of Proposi- tion No. 2(). General File No. 25. on irrigalion. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Hogan. and a division being called for. the same was declared lost by a vote of tweidy-eight in the affirmative to thirty-four in the negative. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be read. The President: If there be no ob.jection the report of Ihe Committee of Itir W hole on Legislative Departments will he read. The Clerk read the said report as follows: "Mr. President: Your Committee of the Whole' have had under consideration Proposition No. 19. General File No. 18. Ai-ticle on Legisla- tive Departments, and beg leave to report the same back to the convention with the following amendments, which the commiltee recommend be adopted. Your iMmmiflee would slate that in '.In' amendments offered reference to number of lines and sections are to such as appear in the printed bill. .\mended Se^Mion i by inserting after the word "fifty" on line 2 the word "five." .\mend Section. I' by stiiking out on lines 2 and > tli" words 'Second ■I'ncsda> after" and on line 7 after the word "meet" insei-linu the woitIs "at tlie seat of government." *" .-Vmcnd Seclion 2;-; by inserling after the words ■|.ill.s" jn line one Ihe words 'aiid bills foi' codification and general revision of the laws." -Amend Section 21 by striking out Ihe words ''iii'esent in" on lines I i'.nd 2. and inserting in lieu thereof the words "eilected to." .\mend Seclion 20 by striking out Ihe words "legalizing except as against the Stale, the unauthoi'ized oi' inxaliij act of anv officer" on lines 20 and 21. .\mend by adding the followini: to the hill as reported to be num- bered Section 4."'>. 618 I'H()(;KKi)I.\';S AM) DEBATES Soc. i5. ^\'lll'Il varant'ips ipccnr in I'illit'r house llif Oovoriior or t.hf person exprcisins,'' the funclions of tlu' Governor sliall issue writs of election to fill the same. Amend Section 30 hy inserling the word "responsible" aftci' Ihi' word "lowest" in line 5. Section 'i'l he amended hy adding- therein the words "except interest on the pubic debt." Amend bv adding Ihe following as a new section to he numbered i6. "Sec. 46. The Legislature shall provide for a State Examiner who shall be appointed by the Governor and confirmed by the Senate. His duty shall be to examine the accounts of the State Treasurers, Supreme Court Clerks. District Court Clerks and all County Treasurers, and Treasurers of such other public institutions as may he prescribed by law. and such other duties as Ihe Legislature may prescribe. He shall report at least once a year and oftener if required to such officer as may be designated by the Legislature. His compensation shall .be fixed hy law." Amend Section .26, by inserting after the word "roads" on line II the words "Chartering Banks, Insurance Companies, and Loan ami Trust Companies." Amend Section 17 by sti'iking out In line I the wni'ds "county Judges and." (Signed, EATOX. Chairman. Mr. Eaton of Park: I move that Pi'o|insilion No. 19 as amended be placed on its final passage. The motion was seconded. The President: The vote should be taken upon these amendments as reported. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move that the rtdes lie sus|)endeii and Ihi- amendments be adopted. The motion was seconded. Th(> President: It is moved and seconded that the rules lie suspended and tlie report of the committee be adopted. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: 1 think it is a bad way In adopt all these amendments wholesale. T Ihiiik Ihe better way woulil be to adopt them separately. The Chair put the question on the motion of the g(Milleman from Cascade, Mr. Collins, and a division being called for the same was declared lost hy a vote of fni'ly-one in the affirmative and twenty-three in the negative. The President: The Clerk will r-ead the first amendment. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section i by inserling after the wori! "fifty" nn line 2 the word "five." Mr. Middleton of Custer: I mnvp the adoption of that annnidment. The motion was seconded. The Char stated the motion. Ml-. \N'arren of Silver Bow: On that motion I demand the ayes and nays. The President: There being a sufficient number to call the ayes and navs, t.hev will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickfoi'd, Breen, Brown(\ Buford, Bullard, Burleigh, Burns. A. F.: Burns, A. .1.; Burns, EdwartI: Callaway, Cardwell, Cauby, Collins, CoTU'ad, Cooper, (joui'tney, Dixon, Durfee, Dyer. Eaton, l-'ields, (iayliird, Gibson, GcKJdard, Hannnond, Hai'tman, Haskell, Hatch, llershfleld. Hickman, Hogan, .Toy, .Toyes, Kanouse, Kenneity, Knippenherg, Knnwles, Kohrs, Loud. Luce, Maginnis, Marshall, Mayger, Mc.\dow, Midillelon, Mitchell. Mutli. Mvers, Parberi'v, Hamsdell. Reek, Sargent. Schmidt, Toole, Jos. K.. Toole, J. R., W'ari'en, Wnl.'^on. Wliil(>lnll. Winston, Witter, Mr. President — 62. Nays: Carpenter, Chessman, Craven, Ilohsoii, Robinson. Rolwllf, Stapleton, Marlon — 8. Absent: Bra/.leton, (iillelle, (ii-aves, Rickards, W'ebstei' — ."). The Chair announced the vole and declared the motion In adopt the amendment cari'ied. The Clerk read as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 619 Amend Seelinn 6 by strikng out on Ines 2 and 3 the words "Second Tues- day after." and on line seven after the word '"meet" insert the words "At the seat of government. " Mr. Jliddleton of Custer: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hickman of Madison: T mo\e to amend by inserting '"temporary'' before the wxirds ""seat of gevernment." The motion was seconded. The Chaii' put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Madison, Mr. Hickman, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The question is now on the amendment offered by the Committee of the Whole. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Middleton. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 23 by inserting after the word "bills" in line one of the words "and bills for codification and general revision of the laws."' Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I move the adoption of the amendment. The moton was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Bickford. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 21 by striking out the words "present in" on lines 1 and 2 and insert in lieu thereof the words "elected to." Mr. Joy of Park: I mo\e the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis <.*!. Clarke: I hope that amendment will not be adopted. It seems to me that if it is adopted it may completely tie the hands of the Legislative Assembly of this State. I can conceive, sir, where it will be possible in the event of a close Legislative Assembly, where parties are equally or closely divided, or upon any other question where there might be a division of sentiment or where the vote was closely di\ ideri. that it would be impossible to pass any kind or character of legis- lation if it did not meet the views of a majority of the members elected. It frequently occurs in the House of Representatives, and it is the well nudwn nielhud by wlii'-li lilibustering is engaged in. by which men sit in the presence of the speaker of the House of Representatives and decline to answer to their names when they are called by the Clerk: and if the gentleman from Deer Lodge or any other gentleman here knows any method hy which he can compel a member of the Legislative Assembly to sote upon a proposition when his name is called. I have been unable to discover it. It has been tried in the House of Representatives and the Senate of the United States, and so far as my information goes there is no authority discovered by which you can compel men to vote. The result of it would be that it would be in the power of some individuals — a quonini of the majority of the members w"ho were elected — to defeat any kind of legislation. I do not believe that that should be done, and therefore hope that the amendment will be defeated. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I desire to say in addition that it was found absolutely necessary during the thirty-seventh Congress, in consequence of the absence of members from the Southern Slates to ailopt the rule which has been ad\ocated b\ Mr. Toole, (hat a majority shall constit\ile a quorum, and that a majority of that quorum shall he sufficient to transact legislation. \ow. [ pretend to say here that that is the rule of CouEi'ess. it is the rule of every state in this Union, and it is the rule of the British Parliament, and were it not the rule it would be the easiest thing in the world where there is a close majority of two or three on either side for one parly to prevent legislation and defeat the will of the legislature. Now", 1 will read from Bartley's Digest, which is considered authority upon par- liamentary law. for the information of the convention. The gentleman here read from Barclays Digest. 1 Now I say here at least that it is in the hands of one party in Congress in the absence of twx> or three of its members, or in the hands of two nr tlire(> members of the Legislative body to obstruct the wheels of legislation and defiSat the will of the people altogether. I hope this amend- menl will not prevail. It is not right, and while it is put in therc> with the &M I'HOCKEDI.WiS AM> DEBATES best iiiotivi's. I tliiiik if the gf-iitlemaii had looked back U> the history of the causes which iullueiiced Gcjufjress to adopt it, I do not think he would liave introduced tlie motion. Mr. Winston ol' Deer Lodge: I desire to say that every state in the United Slates has not the provision as it is in the printed bill as suggested by the gentleman Irmn Custer. 'I'liei'e are a goo(J many of the states that have adopted the method which I propose. There was a good deal of discussion on this point when the constitution of California was adopted. 1 think it will very often hap|ien that men will refuse to vfite. You can compel the attendance of them, and they can vole as they choose; but if we allow a majority of a quoium to pass a bill, a quoi'um would be a majority, and a majority of that quorum wxiuld be about, one-fourth of the members. .Memiiers will be taken away from the housi' upon some pretext or other and you can pass a bill by one-fourth of the members, and I do not thmk it is right, notwithstanding what the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke County has said. There is no danger in my opinion. It seems to me that there is too much legislation, and cer- tainly if a bill has any merit in it, why you can iiet a majority of the members of the house for it. I am therefore in favor of the amendment. Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis i^ Clarke: I just wish to add a woi'd to what has been said by thi' gentleman from Lewis \' Clarke in favor of following the beaten ti'ack in tliis matter. .\s he says two or three members could break up a legislature in almost any case where there was a close question about a matter, and members by refusing to vote could break a quorum. I do not see how the difficulty (hat my friend from Deer Lodge speaks of can ever occur. Suppose there is hut a few over a quorum in flie house at any time, you can always have a call of the house and compel tlie attendance of absent members. There is nothing more clearly manifest in parliamentary jjractice than the way inwhich a minority can defeat hasty action on a bill, and I have seen the chairman of the House of Representa- tives sit for fifty-six hours in his chair because members refused to vote, and there was no way of compelling them to vote. Mr. Kniiwles, of Silver Bow; I think we can see a practical example of that I'ight here in this convention today upon this water question. .Xovv tiiere has been a close vote two or three times upon that. There are two or three members absent; some are excused bcause Ihey are sick; one be- cause his family is sick; and it is impossible to (ell how (hose gentlenien would vote if they were here, on these propositions, and it would stop the passing of the bill. It puts a kind of practical veto upon it. There ai-e men away from this convention today in good faith — two that we know of — and it would put a kind of stop to legislation. Now, the gentle- man says we have too much legislation, but the world has gon(> on without this provision; legislative bodies have existed for centuries withnul any such lU'ovision as this, and there is no great harm in it and no m-eat demand that 1 have heard, for any such provision. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: A small party (d' men niiKht defeat. the most important appropriation bill and so conqiel an extra session, if (liey had any scheme. Mi-. Winston of Deer Lodge: I would call the attention id' the ;;i'idle- nian to the different states that have this provision. Illin(ns and West Viiginia and several other states all have this provision, and I don't see why we should not. This is no new thing. It is one of the most important steps in the cnnstitutioii, and I stdl maintain that it is a good thing and I hope (hat the amendnnMit will pievail. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I believe that (he rule (hat a majoi'if.y of all elect efl shall vole befoi'e a bill is passed is a good one, and T thidi it, would be moi'e particularly good in a Legislative Assendily in a stale liki- Montana which will md have a large legislature — a great number of meiTibers. It is almost impossii)le to compel the attendance of mem])ei's. If they move the call of the house some one will almost immediately move that it be suspended and that will end it. If members refuse to vote, (hey can i-efuse to \ote when a majority of tliose present is required, but I believe it will be in (he best interest of legislation in Montana (ha( this motion of lh(' geidlinian from Deer Lodge be adopted, and that that he the rule in oui- legislatvu'e when we beirome a state. Ther'e can certainly he no harm in it, and we can all see where there can he a gi'eat di'al of good in il. It is not like an unwieldy legisla(i\e body of four or five hundred men where every law should receive a majority of all thi' idectors electeil. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 621 The Chair put the question on the adoption of the amendmeml reported by the committee, and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty in the affirmative to forty in the negative. The President: This leaves the action as in the printed copy. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 26 by striking out the words "legalizing except as against the slate the unauthorized or invalid act of any officer' on iiues 2(1 and 21. Mr. llartman of Gallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Galla- tin, Mr. Hartman, and a vote being taken the sanie was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend by adding the following to the bill as reported, to be numbered Section 45. Sec. 45. When vacancies occur in either house ithe Governor or per- sons exercising the functions of the Governor shall issue writs of election to fill the same. Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the genllenian from Gallatin, Mr. Hartman, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk reod as follows: Amend Section 30 by inserting the word "responsible" after the word "lowest" in line 5. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Burleigh, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Sec. 34 he amended by adding thereto the words "except interest on the public debt." Mr. Hart num. of Gallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin, Mr. Hartman. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend by adding the I'ollowing as a new section to be numbered Sec. 46. Sec. 46. The Legislature shall provide for a State Examiner, who shall be appointed by the Governor and confirmed by the Senate. His duty shall be to examine the accounts of the State Treasurer, Supreme Court Clerks, Distrii,'t Court Clerks, and all County Treasurers, and Treasurers of such other public institutions as may be pre- scribed by law, and such other duties as the Legislature may prescribe. He shall report at least once a year and oftener if required, to such officer as may be designated by the IjCgislature. His compensation shall be fixed by law. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: T move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put thi' question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Burleigh, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend Section 26 by inserting after the word "roads" on lint' 11 the words "chartering banks, insurance companies and loan and trust com- panies." Mr. Loud, of Custer: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Loud, and" a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Sec. 17 by striking out in line one the words "County Judges and." Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. G22 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES The Chair put the. question on tho ludtinn or ttie gentleman I'rom Mis- soula, Mr, Kennedy, and a vote being taken the same was deelared carried. 'I'he I'resident: This disposes of all the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Btirieigh, of Custer: I move, Mr. President, the adoption of Proposition No. 19 as amended as a part of the constitution of the State of Montana. The President: There is an amendment offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section i by striking out the word "sixteen" in line 2 and inserting in lieu thereof "twenty-one". The motion was seconded. The Choir stated the motion. Mr. Craven, of Lewis i'(; Clarke: I call for the ayes and nays. Mr. J. K. Toole, of I^ewis i>i; Clarke: I offer an amendment to that. The President: The gentleman from Lewis iS; Clarke offers an amend- ment to strike out the w^ord "sixteen" on line two and insei'l in lieu thereof the words "twenty-six", and also anotlier amendment to strike out the words '"no more" on line 4 and insert "at least," so that it shall read "there shall be at least one senator from each county." Will the gentle- man from Deer Lodge accept the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke? Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: Yes sir, I accept the amendment with regard to the number of Senators, but not with regard to the other part of the amendment. The President: The question now is on the adoption of the amend- ment, Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis ^S; Clork<>: When this matter came up in the Committee of the Whole I was inclined to say nothing in reference to it. because I was desirous of knowing what action the Committee on Afiportionment and Representation woulil take. I had supposed all alonsr that the number of Senators and the number of Representati\es w'hich should comprise the Legislative Assembly of the State of Montana would be very material, and necessarily material to the Committee on Appor- tionment in arriving at a proper apportionment of the Territory — in other words, that that fact must be first settled before anything further could be done. Now, Section 'i provides that there shouhi be sixteen members of the Senate — that there shall be one for each county and no more, I am desirous, so far as I am concerned, and I am confident I reflect the opinion of my constituency, that the representalion which is provided for in this section is inherently wrong and inequitable and does not meet the I'equire- ments of the provisions of the constitution of the United States wiiich guarantees to every state in this Union a republican form of government. Why, the counties in the State of Montana, whether they contain two hundred inhabitants (u- two hundred thousand inhabitants, ai'e all placed on the same and an equal footing. What I understand to b(> meant by a republican form of government is a government where sovei'eignty is con- fided to and immediately exercised by the popular will. Wili it be con- tended that in any spirit, that by any rule of fairness, the county of Dawson, which my good friend Mr. Haskell honorably and ably re[)resents ni)on this floor, with its four hundred voting population will be entitled to ilie isiajni> repi-esentation in the Legislative Assembly of this state as the great county of Silver Bow, the great county of Deer Lodge, the great county of Missoula, which is increasing in population and material prosperity and wealth greater than any county in the State of Montana today? — saying nothing abotil the counties of T,ewis & Clarke and .Tefferson. Whsvt will be said, Mr. President, with reference lo this kind and character of i'ei>resentation apportioned first? Will my constituency submit to it? \\"\\\ the con- stituency of the representatixes of Deer Lodge Covuiy submit to it? ^^'ill the constituency of these gentlemen from Silver Bow and Missmila and .Jefferson lie supinely by and yield sid)mission to such Irealment as this? For myself, sir, I say that the i>eople of the county of Lewis \' Clarke would not. This is no temporary argument. .\re you going to yield up the matter of representation which has been accorded to us upon the principles and theoi'y which have obtained since the organization of this Territory? Are you going to abdicate, I say, our rights and acc(>pl this new departure? T repeat, this is no temporary ari'aniienienl. We say CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVENTION 1889 623 that, the first. Legislative Assembly shall consist of this number. If this provision is put into this constitution, this same representation will con- tinue indefiniti'ly and forever, because the sixteen members who go to the first Lefiislative Assembly and comprise the Senate, that body in conjunction with the House provides for the apportionment of the State (if Montaila at the next Legislative Assembly; and so this inequality which commences at the meeting of the first Legislative Assembly of tlie State of Montana will be preserved for all time to come and until an amendment is niade to the constitution of the State of .Montana. What right, what excuse can any gentleman offer for this upon this floor? Does not he know that, he violates every provision, every theory that has been inaug- urated and maintained in tliis Territory since its organization"? I believe that two slates in the Union — I have been so informed — have made this lieparlure with reference to their apportionment and their representation. I do not know whether this is true or not, but if it be. I aiJiirehend that long ere this they have discovered a prolific course of e\ils in it. With this system there would be the grossest sort of imperfection. What can you urge in favor of a county on this question that can be urged in favor id' the Senate of the United States, for instance — I would point to thai as an example — that thi' Senate of the United States has but two senatoi-s from each State in the Union, and that they were created without refer- ence to the population, that is true, but e\eryone knows how that came about It was not by reason of any justice or equality in the matter but it was the result of a compromise which brought about the representa- tion of the States. What sovereignty, if you please, has a county have sovereign representation — that sort of representation which a state has in the United States? What principles of sovereignty does it exercise? Simple functions in the matter of regulation of the finances of the county and a rate of taxation, and in looking after the regulations of local gov- ernment. So that so far as that is concerned there is no argument in favor of it. ^^'hy, 1 would accord to every citizen of Dawson County the same right that I do tn the people of Lewis iN; Clarke and Silver Bow. I say that it is establishing a principle here in this constitution which is unjust and unequal and the people of this State would not sanction it. It has e\erywhere been maintained and upheld as a correct principle of government that majorities should ride, and that the right of representa- tion should be with reference to numbers. The constitution of the United States in providing upon the question of representation says with refer- ence to the representation in the House of Representatives, which is the best method adopted by which we can get at the question of represntation. that it shall be done with direct reference to the number of people, leaving out Indians that are not taxed. I simply ntake this appeal to gentlemen representing counties that represent the wealth, that represent the manu- facturing interests, that represent the commercial interests and the mining interests of this Territ twelve Senators to this day: in the State of New Jersey, one Senator from each county: in the Slate of North Carolina, one senator from each counly: South Carolina, one Senator from eacli county. I will slate, though, that when Ihe constitu- tions were adopted in the States of North and South Carolina, this provision was not incorporated, but at the constitutional con\enlion of 187S when the Stales of North and South Carolina formed a new constitution 'and adopted thai provision, it was in each of those constitutions, and it has lieen there since 1878. Mr. J. K. Toole, of T,ewis it Clarke: You have slated thai there is one Senator from each couidy. Does Ihe constitution of each Stale which you have mentioned pro\ide ihat tliere should be on(> Senator foi' each counly anil no more? COXSTITUTKt.VAL CONVENTION 1889 625 Mr. Joy. ol l>ark: That is what it iJrovifJcs: which shows. I say — this particular pniposition shows thai aflcr thosi' States of North and Soutli Caiolina had lived under their goxernnient for many years they concluded there was something wrong fliei'e. and wlien they framed their new con- stitution for some reason or oilier — and 1 would like the gentleman to explain the theory why it was done: there is nothing in ttie proposition that the geulleniaa from Lewis >S: Clarke states, that it was foi' the same reason that the United States constitution was formed — but after they had live a repoi't here froni the Judiciai'y Committee. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I iJesire to submit I'cport of the Com- mittee on Ordinances. The Clerk read as follows: GONS'nTUTIOX.\L CONVENTION 1889 627 "Mr. President.: Your committee on Judiciary, to whom was referred the resolution herewith returned relating to Indian reservations, have directed me t() report that they have considered the same and arc of opin- ion that this convention has no authority under the Enabling Act or the laws of Congress to take any action in tlie matter, and your committee recommend that no action be taken. August 3. 1&S9. (Signed DI.XON, Chairman." The President: If there be no objection to the adoption of this report it will be adopted. The Clerk read as follows: "Mr. President: Your Committee on Judiciary, to whom was referred the letter of Brigadier General Ruger of date July 25, 1889, and also Reso- lution No. 2i^ i-elating to military reservations in Montana, have directed me to report that they have considered the matter and recommend the adoption by the convention of the article herewith submitted as one of the articles of the proposed constitution. August 3, 1889. • Signed DIXON, Chairman." This report will be ordered printed and placed upon file for considera- tion. The Clerk will now read the report of the Committee on Ordinances. The Clerk read as follows; "Mr. President: Your Committee on Ordinances beg leave to submit the following report. (Signed) ROBINSON. Chairman. "ORDINANCES. "Be It Ordained: "First, that an election shall bo held throughout the State of Montana on the first Tuesday of October, for the ratification or rejection of the constitution fiamed and adopted by this convention. "Second, at said election the constitution framed and adopted by this convention shall be submitted to the people of the State for their "ratifi- cation or rejection, and all persons who are then qualified electors under the laws of this Territory shall be qualified to vote for the ratification or rejection thereof. "Third, said elections shall be held at the several places in the several wards and precincts throughout the Territor\" appointed for the holding of elections under the laws of this Teri'itory. and shall be conducted in the manner prescribed by the laws of this Territory regulating elections. The Board of County Commissioners of the several counties of this Terri- tory shall appoint judges and clerks of such election in each of said wards and precincts in the same manner as is now required by law^ for th'^ appointment nf judges and clerks of general elections in this Territory. "Fourth, each elector ^•oting at said election shall have written or printed upon the ticket he may deposit in the ballot box the wonls 'For the constitution', or 'Against the constitution', or other equivalent words. "Fifth, the votes cast at said election for the adoption or rejection of said constitution shall be can\assed not later than fifteen days after said election, or sooner, if the returns from all of the precincts shall have been received and in the manner prescribed by the laws of the Territory of Montana for canvassing the votes at general elections in said Territory, and the returns of said election shall be made to the Secretary of the Terri- tory: and the Governor, the Secretary, Auditor and Attorney General of the Territory and the President of this convention, or a majority of them shall constitute a I^.oard of Canvassers, who shall meet at the offices of the Secretary of the Territory on the thirtieth day after the election and canvass the Aotes so cast and declare the result! "Sixth, that on the first Tuesday in October thi're shall be elected by the qualified electors of Montana, a Governor, a Lieutenant-Governor, a Secretary of State, an Attorney General, a State Treasurer, a State Auditor. a Superintendent of Public Instruction, one Chief Justice and two Asso- ciate Justices of the Supreme Court, a Judge for <^ach of the Juilicial Districts established by this constitution, a (Herk of the Supreme Court and a clrek of the District Court for each of the Judicial Districts (Estab- lished by this constitution. "Seventh, that notice of such election for State. County and Townshiii officers shall Ije given by the several boards of County Commissioners in the same manner as notices of general elections for delegate to Congress and county officers under the now existing laws of the Territorv and such. G28 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES election shall be conducted and held and the votes canvassed in the same manner as provided by law for territorial officers, and all state, county and township officers shall qualify and enter upon the discharge of their duties as such on the first Monday of January following such election. "Eighth, that perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured and that no inhabitant of the State of Montana shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her mode of religious worship. "Ninth, that the people inhabiting said State of Montana do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within thi^ boundaries thereof and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes, and that until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to the disposition of the United States, and said Indian lands shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and conti'ol of the Congress of the United States, that the lands belonging to citizens of the United States residing without the said State of Montana shall never be taxed at a higher rate than the lands belonging to residents thereof: that no taxes shall be imposed by the said State of Montana on lands or property therein belonging to or which may hereafter be pur- chased by the United States or reserved for its use. Rut nothing herein contained shall preclude the said State of Mcnitana from taxing as other lands are taxed any lands owned or held by any Indian who has severed his tribal relations and has obtained from the United States or from any person a title thereto by patent o^ other grant, save and except such lands as have been or may be granted to any Indian or Indians under any act of Congress containing a provision exempting the lands thus granted from taxation, but said last named lands shall be exempt from taxation by said State of Montana so long and to such extent as such act of Congress may prescribe. "Tenth, that the debts and liabilities of said Territory of Montana shall be assumed and paid by the said Stiate of Montana. "Eleventh, that provision shall be made for the establishment and maintenance of systems of public schools, which shall be open to all the children of said State of .Montana, and free from sectarian control. "Twelfth, that this ordinance shall be irrevocable without the consent of the United States and the people of said State of Montaana." The reading of the above report was dispensed with and the same was referred to the Committee on Printing to be printed. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula, sent up a proposition relating to public lands. The President: The gentleman from Missoula offers a proposition re- lating to public lands which will be read by the Clerk. "Article Public Lands. "Section 1. The lands graiih^d to Montana by the act of Congress, approved February 22, 1889, rut died 'An .Act to provide for the division of Dakota into two Stales and to enable the people nf Norlh Dakota. South Dakota. .Montana and Washington to form constitutions and state govern- ments and to be admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the oi'igin;il States and to make donations of public lands to such states for the support of common schools or which may hereafter be granted foi' that pui'pose, shall be classified l)y the lioard of Land Commissioni>rs as follows: 1st, Lands which are valuable only for grazing purposes. 2nd. Those which are principally valualde for the timber that is on them. 'Svd. .\gricultural lands, ilh. Lands within the corporate limits (if any incorpor- ated town or city or within a mile of such limils. and which -.wo worth more than Fifty Dollars '.f.^JOi per acre." "Sec. 2. The lands of the first of said classes shall not be sold, but shall be leased, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law. The lands of the second class may be sold or the timlier thereon may be sold, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law. The .\gi'icultural lands may be either sold or leased, under such rules .and regulations as may be prescribed by law. The lands of the Fourth class shall be sold in lots of not more than five acres each, and not more than one-half of any one tract of such lands shall be sold prior to the year 1895. "Sec. 3. None of the lands granted lor common schools shall bi> sold for less than ten dollars i.*IO.iX)i per acre, and no lease of such lands shall be for a longer term than five (51 years, unless the Congress shall amend the act I'ld'erred to in Section 1 of this article so as to pei'inil longer' leases. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 629 "Sec. 4. All other public lands may be disposed of in such manner as may be provided by law." The President: This properly belongs to Committee No. 20, on Public Lands. If there be no objection it will be so referred. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I move you, sir, that the proposition be considered in connnction with Proposition No. 23 when the same comes up. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Mis- soula. Mr. Bickford, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: I desire to offer a substitute for Section 1, Proposition No. 23. The President: The proposition offpced by thf gentleman from Mis- soula, .Mr. Bickford. will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follnws: "Section 1. All the public lands of the Stale are held in trust for all the people; and none of such lands nor any estate or interest therein shall ever bf disposed of, e.xcept in pursuance of general laws providing for such disposition, nor unless the full market value of the estate or interest disposed of. to be ascertained in such manner as may be provided by law, be paid or safely secured tfl the State: nor shall any lands which the' State holds by grant from the United States in any case in which the manner of disposal and minimum price are so prescribed'; be disposed of, except in the manner and for at least the price prescribed in the grant thereof, without the consent of the United States." Mr. Bickford, of .Missoula: I mo%e that the. proposition as read be referred to the printing committee with orders to print it and place it on (leneral File for consideration with Proposition No. 23 on Public Lands and Exemptions. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Missoula, Mr. Bickford. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The convention had under consideration an amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge, which was amended, and the amendment accepted by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. The proposition under consideration was .No. 19, Section i, line 2. The gentle- man from Deer I^odge moved to strike out "sixteen" and insert "twenty- one". This was amended by a motion to strike out "sixteen" and insert "twenty-six". This matter was the subject of consideration upon the adjournment of the convention. .Mr. Middleton, of Custer: 1 consider this a matter of a good deal cf importance, not only to the county that I represent, but to all of the counties of this Territory or State, perhaps with the exception of two or three. The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke proposed an amendment whereby the number of Senators will be exteniied or increased from sixteen to twenty-six. The report of this committee that had in charge Proposi- tion No. 19, lays down the proposition, in other words, the principle that each county shall have an equal representation in one house of the Legis- lature, anil that the other house shall be based upon population. Now, [ believe, although as the gentleman says, that committee was not unanimous on that proposition — I believe that the report of the committee and the prnciple that that report asserts is correct. We heard a great deal in tlie eloquence and oratory of the gentleman from Lewis 0^: Clarke as to repub- lican form of aiovernment and popular representation. I believe the gen- tleman knows that twelve or thirteen counties of this Territory for the past twenty-five years have practically stood in a position where all they had in the Legislature was the bare right of petition: that they had to come here and kneel down with their hands raised towards heaven, beg for anything and everything they got: and I believe if it were in the power of the people of Lewis A: Clarke County — and I don't know that that might not be true of the county that you, >lr. President, represent — they would place a Chinese wall around these counties and make the counties of the rest of the State build it and pay for it. and put a barb wire fence on top of it, and within that Chinese wall they would build all the institutions that the State of Montana would have, and if they could they would make the rest of the counties pay for them. I do not blame the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke for what he said: and I do not blame the gentleman for the attitude that he assumes here. He represents a people so absohitelv 630 I'UOCEEDI.NGS AM) DEBATES selfisli that, lie is l)(iuiid on this floor to take the position lliat hr ilocs. i-i'ttardicss of what his conscieiu'e may dictate to him; refrardlcss of what he may think is rijiht and fair; and in view of his position it must be confessed that he made an eloquent- and oratorical effort. .Much more, iiei'haps than any representative frcini any of the smaller counties of this territory can make. Now it was shown here by a reference to the history of other states that at least twelve or perhaps fourteen of the States of the Union have this ideidical provision in their constitutions — that is. that one house, the upper house of the Le^fislature, shall be composed of an equal representation from each of the counties. Now, why would that be desired? Take it in a territory like this. Take the three large counties if you will — and the gentleman undertook to curry with a great deal of palaver the fourth county, that of Missoula — and I am here to say that Missoula county is represented here and is able to take care of her own interests; for herself, and I do not believe that Missoula county is demand- ing anything like what the genllernan asserted. But to go back and ask wliat is the reason oi- purpose, or why should any county demand that it stand on an equal footing with other counties regardless of population? It is. that in one house nf the legislature it may have some kind of chance upon the popular will. If the city of Helena or the city of Butte had one hundred thousand population, upon the theory and argument of the gentleman from Lewis iv Clarke, it would rule the Stat(> (d' Montana today. Now, in principle, is that right? Lewis Ov; Clarke has to some extent diversified industries and interests, but principally its main industry is mining. As to Silver Bow County that is true; as to Deer Lodge County it is also true, although they have in connection with that more or less agriculture. Now. the other counties of the territory, nature has not to so great an extent smiled upon. Some of them are engaged principally in stock raising: others principally and almost entirely in agriculture. Thi' interests of these different counties are different. The mining sections demand certain idasses of legislation; the agricultural sections require other kinds of legislation; the stock interests require legislation to some extent in their interest. Place the entire matter of both houses of this legislature uiion a basis of jiopular represi'nfation anil, Mr. President, you know that the mining interests and the mining localities and sections of this state will forever dictate to the rest of the state and to the other indus- tries and interests, what legislation they shall have and what they shall not; and I submit tliat that is absolutely unfair. I submit that there should be in one house of the Legislature a I'epresentation based uimn the coun- ties; so that although the population house might desire to have every- thing in the interest of the mniing localities, that house coidd say to them "gentlemen you cannot have things your way entirely without conceding something to us." And. Mr. President, it was with this matter in view thai. I moved yesterday to strike out Section il of this hill that make.-^ it bribery, or solicitation and bribery in a man in the legislature to go to one member and say "you vote for my proposition and I'll vote for yours." I say that was. for twenty-five years, the only way that any small coiuUy in this Territory could get any legislation, by doing that very thing. I say that was the only way it was possible for the stock inter- ests, or farming interests of ihis Territory last winter to get a bounty law l)rssed was by saying, "^^■e will stand in with your Boiler Inspector Bill or anything you want, if you will give vis a bounty law." I agreed with the gentleman who voted against me when I moved to strike that thing out, and if we were to continue in the same position T believe that that section ought to be stricken out. If the outside counties — the smaller coimiies of this Territory ai'e going to have hut the bare right of petition. I think they ought to be permitted to come here and beg. and if I hey ha^'e a nominal representati\'e here, he is always, and always will be. in the minoi'ity. that the representative might be permilled to say where there happened to be a diAision in Silver Bow Comity. Lewis & (^lai-ke County, by siding wilh one oi' the other "I will do Ihis if yf)u will do that." That was my reason for- moving (o strike that section out. for alfhough this molion to move to amend (he number of senators fr'om sixteen to t.wenty- six was not raised in the Conmiitlee of the Whole. I knew il was comins; I knew that the iieople of Lewis & Clarke county demamled i( of their r'(>|iresentailives on Ihis floor. T was not certain but what the r-ejiresenta- lives of your own county, Mr. President, demanded it. although I was not so clear upon that point, but as to this county. I was perfectly satisfied tliat the\' would take the eai-lh if they could gel i(. Now Ihe ;ji'nllemari CONSTITr rrONAI, r.OXV?:NTION 1889 631 asserted yoslorday that a coiinly is not a sovereig-nty in any sense of the word; that it does not stand on an equal footing as compared with the relation of a state to the National Government — undertaking to forestall the argument that he anticipated miglit be made, that the several states of this Union had in the upper house of the Congress of the United States an egual representation — undertaking to forestall any argument that might be made on the theory that Montana, if she shall become a state, wx)uld go into the Congress of the United States, and in the senate: have an equal \oice and an equal vote with the State of New York. Now, I submit that that argunn^nt in that respect is not correct — and that a county is a sovereignty. It has an individual existence: it can sue and be sued: it can and is placed in a position to acquire property and liold it in the name of the county: it has to build and own courthouses, jails and all that S(jrt nf thing: it has to provide for the levying and collection of taxes, for the payment of its debts, for the payment of judgments that are brought into court and sued, and it has obligations in the shape of bonds of a market value in the markets of the world. Will it be contended that it has no existence, that i! has nothing in the shape of a sovereignty"? I submit that so far as a county's relations to a slate are concerned, it stands relatively and identically in the sajiie position that a state does to the government of the United States, and that there is every reason and every argument to be used in favor of each county having the same consideration and the same representation in one house of the Legislature that a state has in the legislature of the nation. Now, why does the gentle- man from Silver Bow demand this increase of the number of senators? Why does this gentleman from Deer Lodge County accept his amendment — a man who has been posing as an economist: a man who has bei-n here here opposing everything in the shape of the expenditure of a dollar that could possibly be avoided: and he accepts the amendment to increase the number of senators from sixteen to twenty-six. Why does he do it? Simply because he came here as the representative of Deer Lodge County, one of the counties in this trio that represents the wealth, and we will concede, the vote of the State of Montana: and the argument that is used as to these three counties representing population by basing it upon tlje count of the vote is misleading, for this reason: you take it in the mining dis- tricts and the ration of population is calculated by the number of votes polled would be perhaps one to one and a half or one to two, while the ratio of population in the farming counties, or even in the stock counties, where nearly every voter is a man of family, some of them with five or six or ten children, and the basis of population there as compared with the \ote wouM be about one \o five or six. So. that arriving at the popu- lation by reason of the number of votes polled in these different counties" constituted as they are. is not a fair basis upon which to calculate. Many of these counties -that today have a comparatively small population arp as large in the extent of territory as the whole three counties of Lewis & Clarke. Silver Bow and Deer Lodge. The imlications are that within a very few years the development of those counties will bring them where their population will be equal perhaps to that of most any other county in the state, and as the gentleman from Park said, although he represents a county whose vote is three or four or five times larger than some of the othercounties, his people are willing to come into the upper house of the legislature and stand upon an equal footing with tlie people in every other county, and I submit that it is the only way that it is possible for tw-elve or thirteen counties in this state to ever procure any reasonable kind of legislation unless it should please the honorable gentli'inen who happen to represent these three counties that I have mentioned. I believe that when we become a state these smaller counties — I say "smaller" because I speak of them by reason of fheir population, for all of them nearly, outside of these three, are large in territory — those counties have struggled, some of them for fifteen, some of them for ten. some not for quite so many years. Their conditions, circumstances and surroundings have not been as favorable as they have been in these coun- ties where the bowels of the earth have yielded gold and silver and lead: But the people in those counties have struggled just as hard. They have interests and industries that are entitled to consideraition. They should be able to go into the halls of the legislature of this state and stand at least in one house upon an equal footing with any other county: and for that reason it seems to me that it is absolutely unfair — it is absolutely self- ish—it is. if I may be permitted to use the expression— it is hoggish, to 632 IMIOCREDINGS AND DEBATES demaiul nl us aii\lliiiig elso. or to say to us "Lewis it C.laiki' Cnunly shall have eigrlit or ten ii'preseufatives anil you shall ha\c oiu'"; that "Silver Bow County shall liave ten or twelve repi'esentati\es lo your one": ami "that the ratio ol' representation shall be the same in botli houses, and if there is anything you want you ran eonie and lieg lor il. and if \ve like we will gi\e it to you, and if we do not you can go and whistle." Mr. President, I think that the proposed section four should stand as it is. and that llie people of this territory undoubtedly when it comes to he submilled lo them for their conslder'ation and adoption oi- rejection will say — i tlo not know liut persons might be found in Lewis i_*t Clarke County wlio would say it is fail' — but i do know, however, that outside of LeN\'is & Clarke Comity that a majority and a large majority in every county will say "geptlemen that is fair; I am glad you put that info the constitution: it is right." And I do not believe that the people of the State of Montanii, if if becomes a part of this constitution — that principle that each county shall forever stand upon an equal footing with every other county in one house of the legislatui'e — I do not think Ihat in the next five hundred years il will he changed. Look at the history of other states. Look, after seventy- five years one state that, had a popular representation in both houses, changcij .|.\- a vote of Ihe pi'ople it* constitution so as to provide for the identical thing that we are here contending for. Has anybody suggested or indicated the necessity of changing the constitution of the United States so as to make the representation in the senale of the United States differ from what it is today? It never has been thuui^ht rif; it ne\er has been deemed necessary; in fact it has been considered a conservative check upon public excitement and popular clamor at times, which in them- selves, in the head of excitement, are dangerous: it has been considered a safe and conservative check upon the popular clamor of the lower house (d' the legislature of this nation. I can see and conceive of no reason why that satne condition of things should not exist as between counties and as to their relation to the stati\ The provision is here that senators are to be elected for four years: (hat half of l.hem are elected every two years: 90 that all Ihe time there is in Ihe senate of the state if this article goes through as it should go through, senators of experienci'. Half of that body are men who were there two years befoi'e. The house is elected by a popular vote of the state, districted so as to give a representation according to some numerical basis of population. It may be in itself political: it may be democratic, it may be republican. Its tendency may be to legislate in a manner that is not in the best interests of the people of the state, but when its legislation goes to the other house, if you leave it as is herein provided, they find there a body half of which was elected two years before, and they hud there a body that give matters of legisla- tion, and will and always have been known to. in tfie history of this country from its beginning until todav, more careful and deliberate, cool, calm consideration than the other house, and populai- public excitement and politics cannot carry it away, thermit legislaliu-es — both hous(>s — to be elected under (he clamor of som,e nonsense, jiounded into the people by some demagogue or politician seeking office, regardless id' princiide. and you do not. know What kind of legislation you will get. It is safe to presume that you would not get as conservative and sensible legislation as you would w'here you had one house from (he people and the other a conservative one of a smaller number representing each county in (he state, each not only looking after the interesLs of his county, but fairly considering with the othei- cnvinties what wnuld be for the best interests of (he whole state; and I submit that in my judgnxent that kind of a legislature will give better, wiser, safer legislation— better laws — and be more satisfactoi'y and more economical to the jieople (d' his state than any legislatiU'e cotnjiosed of a poi)ulai' represenlalion in both houses. Mr. President, I have talked longer than 1 intended to on this ciuestion, but T feel and feel warndy up(.n (he subjec(. and feel (hat in (In^ intei'i>s( of this whole state that if these counties will go down into (heir own consciences, (hat that conscience will dictate to Iheni that what we ilemand is fair and right. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Upon the adoption of (he amendment now proposed I demand the previous question. The Presideid: The gentleman from Custer demamls llie previous question. The (piesdon is shall the main (piestion be now pnl? CONSTITl'TfONAL COXVENTIDN 1889 633 The Cliaii- put the iiucslioii on tlie main i]iieslion and a division being railed for the same was declared carried by a vote of thirty-nine in the affirmative to twenty-three in the negative. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i**: Clarke: .Mr. President, if the people who have formed a combination to disfranchise the citizens of these counties shall attempt to gag the convention without giving us a chance to express our views upon it. 1 hojje the motion will he voted down. During the delivery of the above remark there were frequent calls for the question. The President : The gentleman from Lewis ^; Clarke is not in order. The question now is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Deei- f.odge, which was amended by the motion of the gentleman fi'om Lewis Ot Clarke, to strike out in line two of Section 4 the w»rd "sixteen" and insert in lieu thereof the words "twenty-six."' .Mr. Craven of Lewis v?i: Clarke called for the ayes and nays. If there be no objections the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The section will now be read as proposed to be amended, The original amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge was to strike out the word "sixteen"' and insert the words "twenty-one." The amend- ment to that was as offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Toole, to strike out "sixteen" and insert "twenty-six." This last amend- ment has been accepted by the gentleman from Deer Lodge, and the ques- tion now is upon striking out the word "sixteen"" and inserting the words "twenty-six. " The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Brazleton, P.urns. A. F.. Burns, A. .L. Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Gaylord, Gillette, Hershfield, Hogan. Knowles. Maginnis. Mayger. Muth, Reek, Robinson, Rickards, Sar- gent. Schmidt. Stapleton. Toole. Jos. K.. Toole J. R.. Warren, Winston, Mr. President— 30. Nays: Bickford. Breen. Browne, Buford, Burleigh, Burns, Edward, Callaway, Cardwell, Collins, Conrad, Cooper. Dyer, Eaton, Fields, Gibson, Goddard. Hammond, Hartman, Haskell, Hatcli, Hickman. Hobson, Joy, Joyes, Kanouse. Kennedy. Knippenberg. Ivohrs, Loud, Luce, Marrion, Mar- shall. Mc.Vdow. Middletou. Mitchell. Mvers. Parberrv, Ramsdell, Rotwitt, Watson, Whitehill, Witter— i-'. Absent: Bullard. Graves, Webster — 3. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to amend lost. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis A Clarke: Mr. President. I move to strike out the word "sixteen" and insert the word "one," and I do that to show that these gentlemen who want to move the previous question, and take this rather unfair advantage, that we can down this matter and make speeches on it so long as there is a numerical figure left in the English language and as we don't want to waste the twenty-six figures, Mr. President, I have begun with the beginning. Mr. Burleigh of Custer here arose to his feet. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Sit down my frend. I have the floor. .Now let us be good tempered and good humored and good natured about this matter. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offered an amendment that just preceded the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Maginnis and that amendment ought to be entitled to precedence. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Then I will withdraw my amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move to adjourn. The motion was seconded. The President: The Clerk will read the amenchnent offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. The Clerk read as follows: "T move to amend by striking out the word "sixteen'" in line two and inserting the words "twenty-five." Gffered by Warren of Silver Bow. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis v^ Clarke: I second the amendment. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I demand the previous question. The Chair stated the question. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: In connection with this mattei- I only have a few words to say. in reply to the remarks to my friend from Custer. I will not detain the convention long, and in fact I know of but little to say upon this matter. But, taking the last assessment of the territory of .Montana as a basis of the sixty-seven millions of dollars, the three counties 634 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES he speaks of pay tuxes (in Iwi'ulyoight millinns of dollars. Taking tho vote as an index, all the coiuilii's of this territory together poll a vote of iO.Oi'i of wliifh the counties of Silver Bow, Deer Lodge ami Lewis & Clarke poll 23,3(38 or more than one-half. Now under theii' proposilion they propose that a minoi-ity shall give to a majority of the citizens of this terri- loi-y a representation of onei'iKli or less than one-fifth in the stale senate. This is not the only question that is before this conventinn, and if we do not stop now and considei' whei'e we are drifting we will wind up wilh the State of Montana assuming I he indebtedness of all these smaller counties. It is a proposition that has not been acted upon by this convention but it was proposed by the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Burleigh, that the state shall assume the indebtedness. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: "SuffiricMil unto the day is the e\il thereof." Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: And instead of these larger counties lliey speak of wanting the earth, it strikes me that the smaller counties have started in on that kind of a proposition. LIntil 1888 the county of Deer Lodge paid taxes on fourteen hundred thousand dollars in land, which is nearly tliree times that of \\liat any county in this territory pays among the smaller counties, with the exception of Gallatin. It is over three times what the county of Custer pays. The agricultural interests of Deer Lodge county — the agricultural interests of Lewis & Clarke county are second only to those of Gallatin. The county of Lewis & Clarke last year ]iaid on agricultural lands and improvements over two millions of dollars assessed valuation. I feel that the interests of all are alike upon this ques- tion. I cannot see how a gentleman representing or claiming to repre sent a county is going back home and vote to disfi-anchise 20,000 people to help out 400 living in a small county. .Another phase of this (juestion is this: .Ml over eastern Montana it is made up of large counties, west- ern .Mon-lana is now thickly settled by the small counties. It will only be a few yeai's when these counties of Dawson, and Choteau are settled up and those counties will then be divided up, and under this system of representation it will be lbe other people who ai'e wantin;; the earth and who will have it. The county of Dawson is capable of makiiig fifteen coimties of the size of Silver Bow, comprising less than one-tenth or less than one-twentieth of the poijulation, to be cut up into fifteen coun- ties, and when they walk in here with fifteen senators, whatever they demand they would get, that is all there is about it. During the history of this t(>i'ritory for the past ten years this same system of I'cpresentation has been in force as now — one council member for each county. One council member for each coiuity has been the system herelofoi'e, anil only those who have tried, and those who have gone up against this thing know how hard it is to get any legislation protecting the mining industry in any way out of any legislature that has met hiM-etofore. Ten years iv^n this coming winter, the first mining law was iiassed. It was passed after Ihirly-nine days of hard, earnest work, both on the floor and in the lobby, and then it passed the house by a very small majority, and on the last day. I went with the chairman of the connnittee to the governor of this territory at twenty minutes aftei- eleven on (he last ilay of the session myself, for him to approve that law. There has hardy been a session of the Jjegislalvu-e that some effort has not been made to rejieal or restrict that law. I claim thai any other law than tlie (ine imw in furce would shut down one-half nf the mines of this coimtry. t'ui'lherniore there is this about it, that a senate composed as these gentlemen propose to have it composed, with a gentleman re|iresentini;' any of these larger cciunties coming with any proiiosition. no matter how just, they would simply laugh at him: and if Ibis bill is passed- if Ibis is to become a law — if f i\ ( tuindred men are to have the same representation that ten (hous'ind are, why (he sooner we come to a \(ite and the sooner the iovei'nor issues bis proclamation again con\-ening tliis conxenlion: the belter off we will all be. T am opposed (o the bit! Mr. Craven of Lewis i*c Claike: 1 am astonished at the scene before us. I had supposed, sir that gentlemen on this flooi' were expected at least to assmne as best they could, in their inexpei'ience. the role of statesman. 1 have expected, sir. that our constituents presumed that the delegates on this floor should occupy a hiph. elevated plane of statesniansliip, above all partisanship, and should luu'y all ideas of personal aggrandize- ment or local advantage in their general desire for the general good of the peo()lo of (he territory. 1 am loath to belj(>ve I was mistaken. The scene indicates, and the n>o(ives and actions of thi' delegates who lia\e COMSnTUnOXAL CONVENTION 1889 635 spoken upon this floor unmistakably show, that we ai'o in\iti'(l down to a place of ai-tion but lilth- above that of the common pot house politician. Instead of spending the last month in a desire to subserve the general interests of the territory at large, we now learn that that time has been expended in conspiracy and trading and intrigue, in order to help out snine ijarticulai' part. \\'hal i^ the |)roposition before us"? Are we really living in a republican form of go\ernment? Do we really have a constitu- lion of tiie United S^tates giving to each slate, and guaranteeing to each stale, a n^publican form of government, baseil upon the will of the majinity? 'I'he proposition before us. if I understand it, is to pass through a gagged convention the iile:_i that area should be represented, and not men and women. lApplause ^^■hy sir, it is equivalent to saying "Go all over this broad domain of ours, and let the rocks and the grasses and the squirrels and the cattle have representation instead of men and women" — the most preposterous idea, I think, that has ever been seriously considered by a parliamentary assembly. How do you know if you divide up tiu' territory into so much area and say that so much space shall have a representation, but that the changes of the future may come in such shape that the population of the few will be very much less than what it is now? How do you know but what the mines may be exhausted, as mines often are, and the population \ery materially decreased, so that now where you have a thri\ing village or city you will have nothing but the deserted houses occupied by bats, and a tew tottering, gray haired, old men, and that county, no matter what its population may be, shall be entitled to the same reju'esentation on the floor of the senate as the counties of Silver Bow or Lewis & Clarke, or the most populous county in the territory? There has been consideral)le talk here about the tyranny of the majority. If has been said that the counties of Lewis & Clarke, Silver Bow and Deer Lodge, I think it is, have been tyrannizing over this stricken eastern country for twenty-five years back. I do not know how that is. \\'e viill concede that they have been. We will concede for the sake of the argument, that in the future we will get down to a low plane of statesmanship and down to tyrannizing. We will concede that all of the public buildings will be erected in these three counties, and that, as the gentleman says referring to Mr. Middleton, of Custer'i his constituents can comr bef.ne us only in the shape of petitioners begging justice on suppliant knee,*. Hut let us reverse the thing and put the shoe on the other foot — that these three counties shall not be represented on the basis of population, but with reference only to the mere matter of area, and only have the same representation as other counties of the territory; in other words the county with 6,fKlO voters shall have the same representation as a county of 400, or 25, if that shall become the popula- tion. Now let us concede that these outside counties will come down to the sanie plane of state.smanship that has been attributed to the three counties. We will say that they can carry everything simply because they have a majority. Is it not fair to assume that the outside counties will tyrannize over the other counties, those that have most of the population of the territory? I think it will be conceded that the industries of mining, commerce and manufacture.* will center in these largely populated coun- ties. Suppose we want to pass a bill in favor of either mining, conunerce or manufactures, will if. not have to receive the approval of the delegates and representative.s from the outside counties, and be subservient to their will and sanction? \\'ill it not be completely at their mercy? And if there is going to be any tyrannizing will it not be better to let the majority tyrannize over the minority than to say that the minority shall tyrannize over the majority. That is the proposition. It has been said here that the small counties have been tradins votes for the last twenty-five years in order to get anything in the way of legislafion. Is the gentleman certain that on this proposition they have not been continuing the habit of trading votes? I fe(>l fi'ee to say that I have been informed that my action and my vote on this proposition would influence the retaining of the capitol at Helena. Is it not likely that the same proposition may ha\e been made to other gentlemen upon this floor? I care nothing com- |iarati\ely regarding the capitol: it i,s a grain of sand compared with the proposition before us. I might vote it to Olendive or to Judith County, and if any mistake is maiie the people may correct it in the future, because time is a great levelep and evener and will adjust things according to their relative merits. Put this thing in your constitution, and' it is not susceptible of amendment, because everything before going to the people 636 PUOCEKDINGS AND DEBATES must rpceivp (lie approval f Mi'. Warren, of Silver Bow. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: T call for the ayes and nays on that. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Before that motion is put I move to amend by making it "twenly-thi'ee." Mr. Keiuiedy of Missoula: I rise to a point of order. The previous question has been put and carried. The President: The point of order of the gentleman is well taken. If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal on the adoption of Ihi' amendment of the gentleman fi-om Silver Bow, Mr. Warren. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Brazleton. Bui-ns. A. F.: Burns, A. J.: Carpenter. Chess- man, Courtney, Craven. Jiurfce, Gaylord. Heishfield. Hogan. Know^les. Mayger. Muth. Reek. Sargent, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. K., Warren, Winston. Mr. President — 2'i. Nays: Bickford, Breen. Bufoi-d. Burleigh. Burns. Edward: Callaway. Cardwell. Cauby. Conrad. Cooper. Dyer. Eaton. Fields. Goddard. Hanimond. Hartman. Haskell. Hatcli, Hickman. Hobson. Joy. .loyes. K;uiouse, Kennedy. Knippenberg. Kohrs. Loud. Luce. Marrion. Marshall. Mc.Adow. Mitchell. Myers. Parl)errv, Ramsdell, Robin.s(m, Rotwitt. Watson. Whitehill. Witter ~W. Absent: Bullard, Graves, Webster — 3. CONSTITrXIO.XAL CONVENTION 1889 637 I'aii-Pil: Browne and J. R. I'noli', (Rollins tuul Rii'kards. Oibson and i will apply rule thirty, it is a solution of the question. (Reading) "The rnii's of parliamentary practice iMidjraced in .Ieff(>rson's Manual shall govern thi^ convention in ail casi's \\lii'i'e they are applicable and in which they arr not inconsistent willi the standing rules and orders of the conven- tion." The President: Then' is nc (|uestion under debate. The pri'xious question has been movrd anil the main question is not debalabli'. .V mo tion to reconsider is not a debatable question according In ".leffi-rson'-; Manual", although it is a rule that obtains in the Hotise of Representa- tives. Hence, tliere was noUiini.' bid'ori' the conxention that was debatable, and the point of order that was taken by the gentleman from Deer Lodge is well taken. The que.-^tion now is on the motion to adjourn. The Chair put the question on the motion In adjoui'n and a miIc being taken I he same was declared lost. The President: The question now is on the innlinn fn taki' a recess until two o'clock. Mr. Mayger, of Lewis & C.larkr; 1 move lo ami^nd \i\ nidvint; tn take a rei'css until four o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the (|in'stion on the said motion Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Mayg^'^, and a vote being taken lost. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis i.'v: Clarke: I mo\ e we The motion was seconded. The Oliaii' i)ut the question on the said motion Lewis & Clai'ke, Mr. Chessman, and a division being called fur the same was di'clared lost by a vote of twenty-eight in the affii'mative Id lhii't\-fi\e ill the ncgaliM'. Mr. ,loy of Park: I call for the question oii the main q\iestion. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: T renew Tuy motion that we taki- a recess until Iwo o'clock. n( the genth •m an from the same w;i IS 1 lei ■la red now ai IjoiU'n of tllc g(Mltl( ■man from CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 639 Mr. Kanduse of Meagher: \ rise to a point of order. The point of order that I make is that the eiilertaining of alternate motions to adjourn or take a recess will have the effeel of entirely repealing the intent and effort of Rule No. 13 which we have adopted for our guidance; that is, with regard to a demand for the previous question. The rule says that its eff'^ct shall he to put an end to all debate and bring the convention to a direct vole on pending amendments and thim upon the main ques- tion. I submit that the entertaining of alternate motions of this kind would defeat the parlianientai'j' practice of the motion for the main question, and there would be no use of any rule upon that svibject. The President: The Chair would suggest to the gentleman that on the other hand if those rules were not allowed the convention might be tiec: up here indefinitely. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: The point of order of the gentleman from Meagher, ) respectfully submit, that when the previous question has been nioved and seconded the only thing in order is "shall the main question be novv" put," If it has been once ordered by the convention, no motion even to adjourn is in order. Mr. l.uce. of (lallatin: What is the ruling upon the point of order taken by the gentleman from Meagher? The President: The Chair has not ruled upon the question. The rule.s of the convention seem to be deficient on the subject. The Chair is of opinion that even after the main question has been ordered that the motion to adjourn takes precedence of everything, unless the convention has commenced to vote upon it. The mere ordering of the main question is not sufficient, unless the \ote has begun. Mr. Rickards, of Silver liow; I assure you, Mr. President, there is no disposition on our part to embarrass you or to embarrass this conven- tion, but with all due respect I made a motion some time ago that we take a recess until two o'clock. I now renew my naotion that we take a recess until two o'clock. It has not yet been voted upon. The President: The Chair will entertain the motion. Mr. -Middleton, of Custer: It seems to me that we ought to have some determination of this question. As the gentleman from Meagher says, alternate motions to take a recess and to fix the time should not be entertaineil. It is possible to block the wheels and prevent anything being accomplished at all. Rule 17 of the House of Representatives, which we have adoiited. perhaps defines more fully what is mean< by tlie pre- vious question than anythint;' else, and my understanding of it is, as stated by the gentleman from .Madison, that ntinn now before the convention is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. Joy. of Park: I would like to ask if this does not carry with it the whole Proposition No. 10. The President: It i'< the adoption of Section i. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford, Breen, Buford, Burleigh, Burns, Edward: Callaway, Cardwell, Cauby, Conrad, Cooper, Dyer, Eaton, Fields, Tioddard, Hanunond Hartman, Haskell. Hatch, Hickman, Hobson. ,Toy, ,Ioyes. Kanouse, Kemiedy, Knippenberg, Kohrs, Loud. Luce, Marrion, Marshall, McAdow, Middleton, Mitchell, Mvers, Parberrv, Ramsdell. Rotwitt, Sargent, Watson, ^^'hitehill, Witter— 41, Nays: Aiken, Brazleton, Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. .1.: Carpenter, Chess- man, Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Gaylord, Hershfield, Hogan, Knowles, Maginnis, Mayger. Muth, Reek, Robinson, Schmidt. Stapleton, Toole, .Jos. K.; Warren. Winston, Mr. President — 25. Absent: BuUard, Graves, Webster — 3. Paired: Browne and Toole. J. R.; Collins and Rickards. Gib.son and Gillette— 6. f>iO PROCEEDI.NtiS AND DEBATES The Chair aiinnimced (he vnli' and ili'clarcd Ihe motion lf> adopt carried. Mr. Sargent, of Silvor Bow: 1 wish to givi' notice that at some future time I shall move to I'eeonsider the vole hy which the sectitm was adopted. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis A Clarke: I move that wc do now adjourn. The motion was secondel. The Chair put the (juestion on the motion of llic pcntleman from J^ewis & Clarke, Mr. Chessman, and a vote being taken the same was derlaied lost. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: [ move; you, sir, that the vole by which Sec- lion i was adopted be now reconsidered, and that that motion be laid on the table. Thi^ motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. I\. Toole, of I.ewis & Clarke: I know this proposition is not debatable, but I ask unanimoris ronseiit to make a slatement not to ex- ceed two mimdes. Mr. Callaway, of .Madison: I lia\e no oljjection to (he gentleman say- ing a few words, pro\ ided this motion be put. But I do Hot withdraw my motion. The Pri'sident: The question before Ihe convention is on the motion to lay on the table. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of I,ewis & Clarke: I recognize by the very decided vote of the convention that it is the determination to reject, as it has already done, the proposition that was offi-red by me upon yesterday. .Nothing that has been said has changed my opinion upon this matter, that the proposition before Ihe convention is an unjust one. l)ut I think the convention took a little advantage of the i)roposition when they (Jid not l)ei'mit, as I intended to do, Ihe following amendments alon;; the line in order that we might reach a numbei' which would bi> salisfaclory to the ciiiwention. I believe we have pi^ocet'ded under a misapprehension. No gentleman on this floor, so far as I know, luas acted under inijiure motives, but that there has been a misapprehension I very firmly believe. My pur- pose was to offer lo make it twenty-five and then twenty-four. Iwenty- thi-ee and tweny-one and aUni^; down \n!lil we could have I'eacheif what I believe the con\ention would ha\e ullimali'ly endorsed, that there should be at least twenty or twenl\- iine membei's of the senate: and I think now it is due to the people of this Territory, in view of everything that has been said, that this nuition to lay on the table ought not lo Ije carried, but that some time and some oppoctiuiity foi' reflection ought to be had, when we can get out some more deliberate judgment on the proposition. I make this suggestion. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I call foi' ihe ayes and nays. The President: If Ihi're be no objection Ihe ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Bickfoid, IJreen, Buford, Bui'leit;h, Burns. Edward: Callaway, Cardwell, Cooper, Dyer, Eaton, Fields, Goddard, Hammond, Hartman, Hask- ell, Hatch, Hickman, .Joy, Kanouse. Kennedy, Knippenberg, Kohrs, Loud, Luce, Marrion, Maishali, McAdow, Middleton, Mitchell, Mvers, Parberrv. Ramsdell, Watson, W'hitehill, Wilier— :«. Nays: Aiken, Bra/.let.on, Burns, .V. F.: Burns, A. J.; Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Conrad, Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Gaylord, Hershfield, Hobson, Hogan, Joyes, Knowles, Maginnis, Mayger, Muth, Keek, Robinson, Rotwitt, Sargient, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Jfos. K., Wari'en, Winston, Mr. President — 31. Absent: Bullard, Graves, Webster — 3. Paired: Browne and Toole, ,J. R.. Collins and Rickards, Gibson anii Gillette— t). The (;hair announced the vole and declai'ed the motion to lay on the table cai'ried. Mr. Wai'i-en. of Silver liow: I mo\e to adjourn until Monday at 4 o'clock. I move that that motion be reconsidere(l and that the convention adjourn sine die. Mr, Burleigh, of ('uster: ] move to amend, if the gentleman is so anxious to get away, that indefinite leave of absence be granted to him. The I'lesident: The motion is to reconsider the motion by which the convention fixed the time of adjournment at four o'clock on Monday. CONSTITUTIONAL CONTENTION 1889 641 The Chair put the question on the said motion and a vnte being taken the same was declared lost. • Mr. Callaway, of Madistm: I iiii>\-e that the convention do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of tiie gentleman from Madison, Mr. Callaway, and f. vote being taken the same was declared carried. The convention stood ad.journed until Munday. .\ugust 5, 1889, at 4 P. M. TWENTY-SIXTH D.\Y. Monday. .Yugiist 5th. 1889. The convention was called to order by the President at four o'clock in the afternoon. The Clerk called the roll. The President: Mr. Graves asks to be excused until tomorrow morn- ing. Mr. Gaylord also asks to be excused until tomorrow morning. Mr. Muth also asks to be excused until Friday. If there be no objection, leave of absence will be granted to these gentlemen. Mr. Aiken, of Silver Bow: Mr. Durfee requested me to ask leave of absence for him until tomorrow. - The President: If there be no objection, leave of absence will be granted the gentleman from Deer I^odge, Mr. Durfee. Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: Mr. Schmidt, of Silver Bow, requests leave of absence until tomorrow: and Mr. Joy. of Park County, asked leave to be excused until four o'clock, and he also desired me to state that he was paired with Mr. Muth on the legislative question. Mr. .loyes. of Jefferson: Mr. Cardwell, of Jefferson County, desires to be excused until tomorrow. The President: If there be no objection, leave of absence will be granted these gentlemen. Mr. Parberry also desired to be excused until Tuesday at ten. If there be no objection, this excuse will be entered. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk I'ead the journal of the previous day. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I would ask what has been done with the resolutiiin that I offered a few days ago, w'hich was referred to the Committee on Mining and Water Rights. The President: Will the Chairman of Ihi' Mining and \\'ater Rights Committee give the gentleman the information? Mr. Eaton, of Park: The Chairman of the Committee on Mining and Water Rights. I think left the hall a moment ago. Mr. Collins of Cascade sent up a report. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: Mr. President, your Committee on En- grossment and Enrollment desu'e to make the following report. The President: Tlie report of Committee No. 7 will first be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Report of the Committee on the Finance of the State, etc, Mr. President, your Committee on the Finance of the State, etc.. to whom was referred Resolution No. 2(i. by Maginnis, author- izing municipal corporations to incur indebtedness, to procure an ample water supply, liave had the same under consideration, and beg leave to report that the Resolution embodies a very necessary constitutional provision. They therefore reconunend its adoption. The committee have had before them a matter of siniilar import, and in their general report on Public Indebtedness will fully pro\ide for the subject matter stated in said resolution. August 2nd. 1889. (Signed' T. E. COLLINS. Chairman. Thp President: If there he no objection, the report of Committcn No. 7 will be received and adopted. The Chairman of this committee proposes that the subject therein referred to shall have attention in their general report. The Clerk read as follows: Report of Committee on Finance of the state. Mr. President. Your Committee on Finance of the state, to whom was refeiTed Resolution No. 22. by Browne, prohibiting reduction or increase of fees or salaries of county, and numicipal officers during the term for which they are elected, respectfully recommend that Commit- tee No. 10. on City. Toviti and County Organizations, be requested to incor- 642 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES porale in their repurl. a provisimi l)y whicli all state, enuiity, lown an.l (ilJier officers shall receive a fixed salary during their respective terms (if office, as provided by law, and that the same be not increased during' their term of office, and that the fee system be abolished. We further recommend that said i-esolution be referred to Committee No. 10 for such further action as mav be necessarv. August 2nd, 1889. (Siprned; T, E. COLLINS, Chairman. The President: What is (he pleasure of the convention concerninLr this report. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I move that the report be referred in accordance with the suggestion of the committee. The President: If there be no objection this report will be referred to Committee No. 10 for their consideration. The Clerk read as follows: Report of the Committee on Enrollment, Mr. President, your Committee on Engrossment and Enrollment, to whom were referred propositions Nos. 1, 9, 10, II, 13, li, 17 and 21 for the purposes of enrollment, beg leave to report the same back correctly enrolled. (Signed! MIDDLETON, Chairman. Mr. Middleton of Custer: 1 move yon that the several propositions just reported back by the Committee on Enrollment be referred to the Committee on Revision and Phraseology. The President: If there be no obji'ction this report will be received, and the propositions as enrolled, will be referred to the Committee on Revision and Phraseology, Mr. ^^'arI■en, Chairman. The President: The Chair would state to the Chairman of the Commit- fee on .Mining and Water Rights that an inquiry has been made for the resolution that was referred to that committee a few days since on the subject of memorial. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: Mr. President, I find that there is some little difference of opinion between the members of the committee as to the report we shall make on that, and I have not been able to get that committee together. I wish (o say to the members of the committee now, that after adjournment this evening, I would like to have them meet ni" in one of the Committee Rooms for the purpose of considering this resolu- tion. The President: If (here be no olijertiiin, the gentleman will be granted further time. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I would like to present the report of Committee No. 7. so that it may be referred to the Printing Committee, to be printed. The President: Report of Committee No. 7 will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Report of Committee on Finance of the State, &c. Mr. President, the Committee on Finance of (he state, to whom was referred certain projiositions relating to the Public Indelifedness, have carefully considered the same in connection with the second part of the subject matter committed to tbetn, and have adopted in substance (hose suggestions which (hey have deemed of practical value, and include the same in the general repoi't on Public Inrlelitedness herewKh presen(ed for the action of (he convention. Your committee beg leave to call special attention to (hose sections relating to the indebtedness of counties and inunicipalities, which they bt^lieve, are in accord with the genei'al senti- ment, of the peojile of .Montana on these important ipn'Stions. The com- 'oittee have compili'd these sections which they respr>clfull\ recommend be adopted and inserterl in (he constitution in the form of a separat--* article to be numbered and designated "Article Public Indebtedness." (Signed) T. E. COLLINS. Chairman. .\rticle on Public Indebtedness. Section I. Neither the stale, or any county, city, town, niunici|iality )\or other subdi\ision id' the slate shall e\-er give or loan its creilit in aid of, or make any donation or gi'ant, by subsidy or otherwise, to any individ- uaj|, association or coi-poratio:i. oi> become a subscriber to, or a shareholder in, any company or cor|toi'a(ion. or a joini. owner with any person, company or corporation, except, as to such ownership as may accrue to tlie state by oiteration or provision of law. Sec. 2. The Legislatixc .\ssembly shall not. in any mannei'. create any debt, except by a law which shall be unappealable until tlo' indebtedness therein provided for', shall lia\e been fully inaid nr discharged; such law CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 643 shall specify the purpose to which the fuiuis so raised shall be applied, and provide for tlie levy of a lax sufficient to pay the interest on, and extinguisli the principal of, such debt v^-ifhin the time limited by sut-h law for tlie payment thereof: but no debt or liability shall be created which singly or in the aggregate with any existing debt or liabilit> exceed the sum of one bundled thousand dollars ($100,000'. except in case of war, to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, unless the law autiiorizing the same shall have been submitted to the people at a general electi.'n and shall have recei^■ed a majinily of the votes cast for and against il, al .-nch election. Sec. 3. All moneys borrowed by. or on behalf of. the state tir any county, city, town, muniiipality or other subdivision of the state, shall be used oiily for the purpose specified in the law authorizing the loan. See. i. The state shall not assume the debt, or anj- part thereof, of any county, city, town or municipal corporation. Sec. -5. No county shall be allowed to become indebted in any manner, or for any purpose, to an amount including existing indebtedness, in the aggregate, exceeding five ,5i per centum of the value of the taxable prop- erty therein, to be ascertained by the last assessment for state and county taxes previous to the incurring of such indebteilness. and all bonds and obligations in excess of such amount given by. or on behalf of such county shall be void. No county shall incur any indebtedness or liability for any single purpose to an amount exceeding ten thousand dollars i$10,000'i, without the approval of a majority of the electors thereof, voting at an election to be provided by law. Sec. 6. No city. town, township, or school district shall be allowed to become indebted in any manner, or for any purpose, to any amount, includ- ing existing indebtedness, in the aggregate exceeding three (3; per centum of the value of the taxable propei-ty therein, to be ascertained by the last assessment for state and county taxes previous to the incurring of such indebtedness, and all bonds or obligations in excess of such amount given by or on behalf of, such city. town, township or school district, shall be void: provided, however: That the Legislative Assembly may provide for an increase in the limit mentioned in this section, by authorizing municipal corporations to submit the question to a vote of the taxpayers affected thereby, when such increase is necessary to. procure a supply of water for such municipality which shall own and' control said water supply and devote the revenues derived therefrom to the payment of the debt." On niotion of Mr. Collins of Cascade the reading of the above report was dispensed with, and the same was referred to the Printing Committee, to be printed. The Pri'sident: The convention had under consideration when it ad.journed Proposition No. 19. Article on Legislative Departments. That now comes under the head of unfinished business, and will have jirecedence of all other matters. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Mr. President. T move that the article be put upon its final passage, and be adopted as part of the constitution. The President: The Chair is not aware whether all the amendments had been considered or not. Section 4 was under consideration. We will proceed now to the remaining amendments that were proposed by the Committee of the Whole that have not yet been acted upon. Mr. Middleton of Cusler: 1 understand that the amendments reported by the Committee of the ^^■|lllll> had been acted upon entirely: and that after action had been concluded >ipon the amendments, the amendment offered bv Mr. Toole of Lewis & Clarke was considered. That is mv recollection of it. The President: The Chair is informed by the Clerk that there are some amendments that have not been acted u|ion. that were reported by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Callaway of Madison: The Clerk is certainly in error in making that report to the Chairman of the convention. T beg to call the attention of the convention t constitution of the State of Montana, and that I will liischarge the duties of my office with fidelity: that I ha\e not paid or contributed, or promised to pay or contribute either directly or indirectly, any money or other valuable thing, to procure my nomination or election for appointment) except for necessary and proper expenses expressly authorized by law: that I have not knovvinglv violated any election law of this state, or allowed it to be done by others in my behalf: that 1 will not knowingly receive directly or indirectly, any money or valuable thing for the performance or non- performance of any act or duty pertaining to my office, olhei' than the compensation allowed by law. so help me God." And no other oath, declai'ation or test shall Ite ri'(]uired as a qualification for any office or public trust. Sec. 2. All officers whose election or appointment is not provided for bv the constitution, and all officers whose offices and duties may be hereafter created by law, shall be elected or appointed as may be provided by law. Sec. 3. The Legislative Assemfily shall have no power to autliorr/e lotteries, or gift enterprise for any purpose, and shall pass laws to prohibit the .sale of lottery, or gift enterjii-ise ticket* in this state. Sec. 4. The Legislative .\ssembly shall enact suitable laws to prevent th(^ destruction by fire, from any cause, of the grasses and forests upon lands of the state or upon lands of the public domain, tln^ control (>f which may be conferred by Congi'ess upon this slate, and to (itlKM'wisr protect the same. ' Sec. .5. The Legislative Assembly shall enact lilirral Immcstead and exemption laws. Sec. C. No perpetuities shaU be allowed, except for cliarilable purposes. C.O.NSllll Tlu.NAL CM.WK.NIIO.N LSS'.I Oio Sec. 7. All couiily officers shall krpp their offices at (he c(i\iuly seat* of their respect i\e counties. Sec. 8. In (he disposition of the public lands f^ranted b,\ the Inilrd States l was adopteit in convention. The President: If il In' true (hal this srclion was acleil upon in con- vention and di'fi'aled, if can oidy be re\ i\ed by a reconsideration dl llii> vote. It is now moved and seconded that Secli(m 9 be siricken oul. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Ijodge: If that is true, and this was acted upon in convention, each serllon of Ibis proposition, why, IIumi. it would be put out of order to sti'lkc oul any section now — and no nioliim slmiilil lie entertained except to ameml. The President: What section does the gentleman refer to? Mr. Robinson, of Deer liOilge: I refer to Ihe wholi' Pi-oposilion .No. US. The only thing that can be done with it now is to put it on its final passage. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: The gentleman from Deer Lodge is quite correct. All of these propositions acted upon in convention and passed and referred to the Connnittee for Printing are all adopted. The President: It was ordered to be reprinted, but the Chaii- rloes not understand that it was put upon its final passage and adopted. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: They are passed and pi'inleil to be put upon their final passage. The President: If there was no motion acted upon to pul it upon its final passage, it is subject to amendment up to that point. The Chair does not understand that the/'c was a motion made to put il upon its final passage. .Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & (jiarke: I wish to offer an amendment before that motion is entertained. Tiie President: If there is a motion to put it upon its final passage no amendment can be entertaini'd, but the Chair must be informed upon that fact before the Chair can decide. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: If I remember, a motion was made, and then I thinlv Mr. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke, moved before its final adoption that it be printed: after these amendments had been adopli'd and passed section by section, while it was still under consideration. Mr. Toole moved that it be pi'inti>d so that the members coiild lia\e it under their eyes beforii it passed from them. ■Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: Mr. President, this hill was acted u|)on and the amendments to each section were considered, and each section I lliink was considered, but there was no motion to put it upon its final passage. Each section was considered and it was agreed that it should be iirinted before put upon its final passage. The President: It is moved by the gentleman from Yellowslone. which motion has been seconded, that Section 0 be stricken oid. Mr. Myers, of Yellowslone: T rise for inf(.irmation. Is lliat a pi-oi tin' constitution to the people, I think it ought to be done by a majority of the I,egislature. We bad under consiiieration a lilllc while ago in the article on suffrage, this question of granting the riL:ibt of suffrage tn women. 'Phis convention was almost equally diviiled dn tlie question, and I believe it was lost by a tie vote. During that deljate considerable was said about being willing to leave this matter to Ihi^ people, and to trust the people in regard to these amendments. I stated then that f was willing In ti-ust the people to voile on that, and 1 am willing, and I think it is only right thatia majority td' the Legislature should be able to submit a proposition to amend the constitution to the whole people, which I think is formal enough and difficult enough to make it perfectly secure and an entirely safe coui-se to lake. Here again the other day a proposition was adopted in regard to representation by an extremely divided vote of the conxention. Other propositions may yet come ujj which will niake the constitution still more objeclionable perhaps to some of the people to whom we submit it. Xow. I presume that no member of this body would care to see this constitution adopted by a greatly dixided vote; they would not care to see a campaign for it and a campaign against it led by speakers in the coldest perhaps Ibis fall. Intending, as I do, to support it myself, although of course as every other individual citizen, if anything is so objectionable that my sense of right is concerned in it, I would reserve the right, as I believe every other member should, as a citizen, to oppose it. But I think we all intend to do what we can to secure its adoption by the people, and in view of all these things I submit that it would be wise not to make the process of amending it so extremely difficult that it could not be accom- plished. I think a majority of the Legislature have a right to submit a proposition, and a majority of the people to adopt it, and while I agree with my friends in requiring two-thirds of the Legislature to call a new constitutional convention. I think in regard to the mere submission of ameniJments that we ougtit to take a different course. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I was very much pleased with the views expressed by my friend, .Mr. Maginnis. the other day. and especially de- ligihted that I should have such able support as 1 had from him; and the reasons which I assigned Ihen 1 will not take time to assign again. Xow, what has come ov(>r this convention, or the shadow of any distinguished gentleman's dreams to cause this change is more than I know. .\ow. I do not believi' that a bare majoi'ity of the Legislature should have the power to submit amendments to this constitution, or to call a convention, or anything of that kind. I think it ought, to lie placed a little farther off; I think it ought to be placed where it would take at least Iwo-lhirds of the members of the Legislatixe body to call a convention for the purpose of amending f,he constitution. I certainly have not changi^(l my mind, and see no reason to; and no matter what measure may be adopted here in this conx'ention it is adojited by I be will of the convention, and I most certainly ground my action and my views uiion what I lielii've lo be a firm, well established princi|ile, and that is, in submitting a constitutional amendment it should requii-e at least the \ote of txyo-thirds of Ibe members of the Legislatvire before it can bi^ submitted. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: Just one word in reply. Now, the gentleman itook me to task during the debate on liie suffrage question as not being willing to trust to the people — that is the Legislature, tht* representatives of the people — upon any proposition nt that kiml. Now, 1 am willing lo trust the Legislature lo submit a proposition to the people, but my honorable friend from (iusler really does seem to have changed his mind, for he is not willing to trust llie Legislatui'e to do that. The Pi-esident: The question is upon the adoption of the amendment. Mr. (jallaway, of Madison. calliNJ for Ibe ayes and nays. Ttie President: The ipiestion is upon the amendment of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Maginnis, to strike out th(> words "t\\T>- thirds" in line 2 of Section I 'i and inscM-l the word "majority". .Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead; \Vill an amendment to tin' ainendmcnl be in order? The President; Yes sir. CONSTITl TIONAL CONVENTION 1889 619 Mr. Witter, of Beavcrhfacl: I move to amend by making it read "a majority of the membei's elected." Mr. .Mag'innis. of Lewis i^ Clarke: I believe thart is ithe way it is now. As it reads now it says: "And if the same shall be voted for by two-thirds of the members elected to each house."' &c. Now. I propose to amend it so as to read: "And if the same shall be voted for by a majorty of the members elected to each House."" Mr. Middleton. of Custer: Mr. President. I desire to say a word in this matter if it is not too late. The President: Both side? of the question have been put: it can only "be by unanimous consent. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: There was an amendment to the amend- ment suggested just now. The President: The amendment was not submitted, however. The ayes and nays had been called for on the previous amendment. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: T ask that the gentleman may have unanimous consent. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I second the motion. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I object. The President: If there is any objection, no further remarks can be received. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: If the Chair will permit me. I rise to a point of order: the ayes and nays had been called for. After that the Chair entertained an amendment, and that was accepted. The President: There was no one seconded the offer to the amend- ment and no acceptance of it. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: The Chair at least stated that an amendment to an amendment was in order. The President: Since that time the Chair stated to the convention that the ayes and nays would be entered on the journal. After that slate- ment is made by the Chair no further debate vdW be allowed except by consent. Mr. Middleton. of Custer (To Mr. Robinson^ : Do you insist upon your objection? Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I don"t see any reason for changing the rule. The President: Proceed with the call of the roll. The Clerk called the roll, and the vote stood as follows: .\yes: Aiken. Breen. Rullard. Burns. .\. I-'.: Biirns. Edward: Cauby. Chessman. Collins. Courtney. Craven. Dixon. Hammond. Hershfield. Hogan, Joves. Knippenberg. Knowles. >[aginnis. Marshall. Mavger. Mvers. Robinson. Rotwitt. Sargent. Stapleton. Toole. Jos. K.: Toole. .J. R.: Witter. Mr. President— 29. .Nays: Bickford. Brazleton. Browiie. Buford. Burleigh. Callaway. Car- penter. Conrad. Cooper. Dyer. Eaton. Fields, Gibson. Gillette. Goddard, Hartman. Hatch, Hickman. Hobson. Kanouse. Kennedy. Loud. Luce, Mar- rion. Middleton. Mitch^^U. Reek. Warren. Watson. Whitehill. Winston — 31. .\bsent: Burns. A. .J.: Cardwell. Durfee. Gaylord. Graves. Haskell, Joy. Kohrs. McAdow. Mufh. Parberry, Ramsdell. Rickards, Schmidt. \'\'ebster — 1.5. The Chair announced the vote, and declared the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke lost Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: If amendments are in order I wish to offer one. The President : The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers an amend- menl to Section 14 by inserting the following after the first word "house" on line 3. "except in the case of proposed amendments with reference to an increase in the number of State Senators and the reorganization of senatorial districts when a majority vote of the Senate will be suffi- cient instead of the usual two-thirds vote of that body." Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of Ihe aniendinenf. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I call for the ayes and nays. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: It does not seem to me that this particular nialter of the representation in the upper house of the Legislature should be any easier of amendment than any other matter that migtit come before the Legislature, or before the people in the shape of propose<1 amendments. The people elected seventy-five men to come here, who really are the people themselves, making this constitution. They intrusted this (550 pr()(:i:l;im.\(:s and debates work iif pi-cijai'ing a lunilaiiiciilal law I'lir t.hi^ State nf .Montana In us here ill cniivpiitioii. Now, I agree with wliat Dr. tSurleigli lia.s said, and with what .Major Maginiiis said the other day on this identical (juestifin, tliat tlie matter of an amendment to the constitution should not be an easy matter. Take it from a political point of view whei'e a party might liave a liare majoriily in both houses, why. they could submit any and all kinds of questions to the jieople. and those matters continually cnming up could tio no good. If the people adopt this constitution as it will be submitted to them, it seems to me that it ought not to be any easier of amendment than when proposed by two-thirds of tlie members elected in each house of the Legislature, and the gentleman can show no argument in favor of amending in this respect with any mni'c facility than in any other respect. It is simply a question, as it has appeared, somewhat of local feeling. Several counties are here, each and all of them represented. By a very decided vote, it was determined beyond question that it was the sense of this convention that in the upper house of the Legislature each county should stand on an equal fooling, and have the identical and the. same representation. Now, because the minority of this convention are dis- satisfied, or seem to be, with the action of the majority, they desire to incorporate this easy mode of submitting the question to the people so that the minorit> id' this cmnention may overcome what a large majority have undertaken to make a part of the fundamental law. It doesn't seem to me that it is right; it doesn'il, seem to me that thi're is any good reason for it. I do not believe the constitutinn should be easy to amend. I do not believe that a proposition, either to hold a convention for the purpose of preparing a new consti'tution, or amending it, or of adopting a single amendment, should be permitted to go before the people unless by a vote of at least two-thirds of the members elected by the people to each house of the Legislature. So far as the matter of representation is concerned, that was discussed to a considerable extent, here last Saturday, and every- body had a chance to consider it carefully. The vote was decided, and by a large majority, in favor of the representation as indicated in Section 'i. Now. unquestionably, the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Lewis ti Clarke, Major Maginnis, althiuigh not so patent im its face, had the object, in view of perhaps in the near fuiure defeating wliat is the will of this convention. The gentleman from Lewis & tUarke. Mr. Craven, puts the matter plainly before the convention. soTITat it can be seen that ill is the object of the minority to overcome the action of the majority of the convention. It would seem that that condition of feeling ought not to exist here. So tar as I am concerned, when I stand with the minority on a proposition of that kind and find that the majority are strongly against me. I submit: and when this constitution is concluded and ready to be submitted to the people, although, beyond dovibt, there will be many things that I would prefer to see out of it, I intend to stand by tliat consti- tution and do all that I can to see that it is adopted by the people. But to say that there should be a feeling grow up among the minority of this convention which on its face shows ithat it is the purjiose of the minority to overcome the action of the majority, it does not seem to' me that the convention wants to place itself in that kind of light. Mr. Ealon. of Park: I move the motion of the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke be laid on the table. The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh, nf Custer, called for the ayes and na\s. The President: If tliere be no objection, the ayes ami nays will be entered on the journal. Mr. Myers of Yellow.'^loni': I wnuld like In inquire what llml innlinn to lay on the talile would carry with it. The President: The molion to lay this amendniiMil mi Ihe table will carry the section with it. Mr. Eaton, of Park: If the Chair rules llial way 1 will willulraw the motion. Mr. Cai'iientei'. of Lewis i*!: ("larke: Wliat do I undei'-iland li> br before the House? The President: The motion to lay upon tlie table is willidrawii by the gentleman. The question now before the convention is the adoption of the motion of llie gentleman from f^ewis A- Clarke. Mr. Craven. Mr. Carijenter. of Lewis ,t Clarke: Mr. President, upon this question, and among otliers, 1 must vote according to settled convictions, rpon the question of woman suffrage. I voted against extending the suffrage CONSTITl nOXAL CONVENTION 1880 651 lo wnnit'u liccau.sc it was IriMi n strong- coiu ictiou thai tlu-y itid not want it; but I am in favor of (m; but offer an anicndnient to two more and somebody will say '"^^land by the committee." .Now, having' Ihose settled convictions. I voted as I have done for this House of Repi-esenfa!ion on what I believed to be principle. There is no difference between the two houses; it is a popular rule of pojjular sovereignty in each case. I ha\e the same opinion in rej^ard to some other matters. I believe it is dangerous to leave it to the Legislature to pass a bill by a bare nia.jority of the members present, and I have voted apaiinst that. T liave known again and again of the most cruel and improvident measures because a simple majority coiUd pass them, and Legislatures over again have changed that rule, and a majority of them now favor upoi> good grounds that no bill shall pass e.xcept by a majority of all elected. Now, we come to this matter of amendments to the constitution. It is lii'opdsed that a bare majordy of those elected shall tamper with tBe constitution. \Mien the constitution is once adopted it should not be changed for every trivial cause, and at the beck of every man. (.\pplause> I must stand on such settled con\ictions no matter where they hinge. .Now, I am in favor of no amendment being submitted to the people — no amendment to this constitution being so submitted — without the endorse- ment of two-thirds of the Legislature. vAppla-use"' I believe that the most ridiculous, grotesque iiroposition you mer heai-d of. with a single flit of the breeze, would pass through the Legislature and would be submitted to the people; there would be no end to the propositions that would be submitted to them at every election. There ought to be some check to them. [ would favor this: If a majority of two suceessive legislatures would recommend the submission to the people of any ques- tion, I would favor that, because that would give time for reflection, but I would never favor the submission of a proposition by the simple majority of one Legislature. If the simide majority of one Legislature favor the submission of the propositions and the majority of the next approve of it also afler reflection and considej-ation and decide to submit it to the people, then I would favor the proijosition; t)ut if it is to be done by one Legisla- ture, I say that it should ne\er be done except upon the concurrence of those elected to each body. Now, when it comes to this Senati; repre- sentation, while I am in fa\'or of the Senale being elected by the people in proportion to the population, and am firnd>' of that opinion, if this con- vention has decided otherwise, then I cannot change my opinion as to the matter' of submitting amendments simply because that would afford an opportunity to submit again one measxu'e that I am in favor of. I have never voted in this convention except on principle, every measure stand- ing on its own merits, and I would despise the man who would vote for one bad measure because by thai measiu'e he could get another person to vote for what he regarded a good measure. As I have stood upon every question, upcm their merits, t stand now upon the merits of this, whidher this be a particular proposition that I favor or disfavor. If we minke this exception then we want to moke anolh(M' exception, that the (pu'stion ot female suffrage shall be submitted. Wi' want to go on farther and submit the question of water taxation, irrigation, mining taxes and evei-ylhing else as a separate iiroposilion on a majority vote, when the convention savs that every pi-oposition must be submitted only iqion the concurrence of two-thii"ds. I know of no other grovuid, except to stand upon principle in rtd'ereuce to all questions submitted here, and I believe that this is tlie highest legislative body that there could he in the Territory. In one sense, it is purely a legislative body, because we recommend the funda- mental law of the Territory, which is the highest law; but at any rate. whelh(M' as constitution niakers or fundamental law makers, we ought to make such a record here as will be an examjde to the Legislatui'es that ari» to come after us, to carry out the provisions, the skeleton work of which we lay out for them in this constitution. 'Phei'efore, for the I'easons which I havi' given, T shall vote against this anuMnhnent. Ml'. Robinson, of Deer Lodge, called for the previous question. Mr. ^^'hitehill, of Deer Lodge. I would ask that the genlleman do not, press this jirevious question. I third< thai I have not intiuded mmv nnich upon this convention in speech-miaklng. but I desire an oijportunily to explain and give some oT my reasons for my vote on this lU'oposition. I hope the genlleman, knowing somewhat the facts, will withdraw- his molion at present for the iirevious question. I seldom ask such a favoc. but I would like to have his motion wilhdra\Mi. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 653 The President: The inntion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge was not seconded. The gentleman from Deer Lodge has the floor. Mr. Whitcliill, of Deer Lodge: Mr. Pre.sident, I am willing- to attribute honesty of purpose to every member of this eonvention in the record of his vote on every proi)osilion (hat comes before us, and I lirlie\ e that every gentleman of (his convention has done so, and yet there have been charges of imholy conibinalions against members of this convention for the pur- pose of influencing their vi'tes. It has been charged on members of this convention that liy means of these unholy conibinalions they have outraged gentlemen who are aspiring for position at the hands of (he people. They have charged that members of this convention have outraged their con- stituencies, and they have hurled denunciation with (heir mighty force that the indignation of this outraged constituency will relegate I he persons who liave entered into these combinations into (be confines of Dawson County. Now, Mr. President, I am proud to say that I have voted for this proposition; I am proud to say that every vote of mine on the ayes and nays that has been recorded here is in fa\or of this proposition; and I am willing to say that it is the most righteous proposition that has come before this convention. I say that by means of this a check will be put u|ion unholy cumbinations of capital for the purpose of rushing through hasty legisiation. I say that it will be a check upon unholy coni- binalions and secret combinations of the lalxuing element or any other elf ment of secret orgauization to get through hasty legislation. You will remember, many of you — and it was before my time in Montana — and the time they had to get through what was known and called the "Gag Law,'" and every man interested in mines understands why that "Gag Law" was passed. It wa« to prevent any persons taking in their own hanils the law and preventing other persons wlio had equal rights from performing their duties, and the old miners of (hat date will understand thai Ihal could not be passed by the influence and by all the votes of the populous counties until an appeal had been made lo the small counties, to the farmers, to stand in and protect and do .justice to the mining rights. Now, Ihei-e is one inslanci' of where such legislation would have been disastrous. For instance, the small counties, if they should desire on any occasion, could unite with the large counties. I say that on every occa- sion—and history will substantiate me — that whenever an appeal is made to the farmer constituencies — to the cowboys, as they are sneeringly called by certain members of this convention — that they are the ones that will always li'^ten to appeials in favor of justice and of equity and right. You all know when Rome was on the verge of destruction they sent out tor old Cincinnatus to come in and lead the armies on account of the cor- ruption of the mass of the peojile and their distrust in their leaders. Now, I say this is one of the most righteous propositions in my opinion that has been passed by this convention. Now, the gentlemen talk about a principle being involved in this thing and they sneeringly say, "Shall Dawson County w-ith its iOO votes have an equal right with Lewis & Clarke County" with its 6,(XI0 votes, and with Silver Bow with its 7,000 votes," They say the man wiio performed such and such a thing is com- mitting trea.son. To whom? To the gendemen who would like to havi' themselves placed before this public for high office, and they are the only ones I know of who feel thai (hey have been ou(raged on (his occasion. Not an honest miner, not an honest mining man — and I have talked with them in my county, and have never been assailed in my views — they say, "We are proud you had the courage to vote as you did"; none of these men have raised their voices against this. And I say I am in favor of this proposition for these reasons, gentlemen of the convention, that if is a rigliteous proposition, and one of the best ones that has ever been pre- sented to this convention, Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I wish (o have just one minute for a personal explanation. The gentleman from Custer, I think very unwit- tingly, charged me with having submitted this amendment for a certain purpose. As I said before, when the debate on woman suffrage was up, and when I was being charged with not being willing to trust, the people, I at that time made up my mind that I would at the proper time offer an amendment to the constitution saying (hat a majority of the Legislature might submit a proposition to the people. Now, T am against this amend- ment offered by my colleague from Lewis & Clarke, but I stand, like my other colleague from Lewis & Clarke, on the general principle that a majority of the Legislature should at any time be able to submit a motion 654 procep:dings and debates to amend llioip constitution to tin' iiciijile. ami I dn no! believe that any fantastic or any wicked measures would be submitted, and if they were submitted I do not believe that under any circumstances the people would endorse thoni. 1 had an amendment prepared | i)opular l)ody, and we ask it as a matter of I'ight, as a mailer of pi'inciple, as the l)est form of go\'er'nmeiit thai is yet, and Ihal is all we do ask. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 655 Ml-. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I advocated as warmly as I knew how the other day what I consii'ered tn be popular g-overninent. and I know that 1 did it just abdiil as well as I knew how to do it. I know an- other thing. I know that I am beaten and I am not eating any sour grapes. I propose to vote lor this constitution just as it is. (Applause). The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Craven and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: I move we take a recess until eight o'clock. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that Proposition No. 28 be put upon its final passage. Mr. Myers, of Yellowstone: I will withdraw my motion. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: If the gentleman will withdraw his motion, Mr. President, I would move you that Sections No. 13 and 14 of the original proposition as it was printed be numbered 9 and 10. The President: If there be no objection. Sections 13 and 14 will be numbered 9 and 10. The question now is upon the adoption of Section 1-i. The Chair put the question upon the adoption of Section 11. and a vote being taken the same was de/jlared carried. Mr. Hickman, of Madison: In line one of Section two the word "the" occurs where it ought to be. in my opinion, the word "this". I move a motion to substitute the word "this"". The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from .Madison. Mr. Hickman, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move to strike out Section 2. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the million of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. .Mr. Toole, and a vote being t'aken the same was declared carried. -Mr. Burleigh, ot Custer: I now mo\ e that the Proposition No. 28 be put upon its final passage. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Burleigh, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The qui-stion now is upon the adoption of Proposition No. 28 as amended. The Clerk will call the roll and the ayes and nays will be entered upon the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickford. Breen. Browne, Buford, BuUard, Burleigh, Burns. A. B.: Burns A. J.: Burns. Edwards: Callaway. Carpenter, Cauby. Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Craven. Dixon. Dyer, Eaton, Fields. Gib.son, Goddard. Hammond. Hartman, Hatch, Hershfield, Hicknian, Hobson, Hogan. Joyes, Kanouse, Kennedy. Knippenberg, Knowles, Loud, Luce, Maginnis, Marrion. Marshall, Mavger. Middleton, Mitchell, Mvers, Reek, Rotwitt, Sargent, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.: Warren, Watson. Whit«hill, Winston. Witter. Mr. President — 57. Nays: None. Absent: Brazleton, Cardwell, Durfee, Gaylord, Gillette, Gra^■es. Haskell, Joy. Kohrs, Mc.Adow, Muth. Parberry. Ramsdell. Robinson. Rickards, Schmidt, Toole, Jos. K.— 18. The Chair announced the vote and declared Proposition No. 28 adopted as part of the constitution of the State of Montana. Said Proposition No. 28 was then sent to the Engrossing and Enrolling Committee. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I now move that the convention take a recess " until eight o'clock this evening. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Burleigh, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until eight o'clock P. M. 656 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES August 5Ui, 1889. Evening Session. The convention was called lo order by the President at eight P. M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: Mr. McAdow, of Fergus, desires leave of absence for the day. If there be no objection he will be excused. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow,: I move that the convention go into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition No. 33, Gen- eral File No. 29, Ordinances. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the quest ion on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Warren, and a \ote being taken the same was declared carried. The Chair invited Mr. Marrion, of Missoula, to the Chair. Mr. Marrion, of Missoula, begged to be excused. The President called Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula, to the Chair. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula, in the Chair. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Section 1 of Proposition No. 33 on Ordinances. The Clerk read Section I of Proposition No. 33 as follows: "Ordinances. Be it ordained. First, that an election shall be held throughout the State of Montana on the first Tuesday of October, for the ratification or rejec- tion of the constitution framed and adopted by this convention." Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I move that when the committee rise it report the Proposition No. 33 with the recommendation that it be made a special order for Thursday at ten o'clock. It is a mater of ordinances, and it seems to me, one of the last things to come up and will necessarily be hinged more or less on what the constitution itself is, and I don't think it ought to be considered at this time. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I would like to move an amend- ment, tliat It be put at the foot of the calendar, and that it be the last proposition considered. The amendment was seconded. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: In connection with this matter, I would say that looking Proposition No. 33 over, it provides for the retiring of every officer in this Territory and for new officers to be elected, and it is probahly one of the questions that we are likely to have a little scrap over; I think it ought to be taken up at this time. Mr. J. R, Toole, of Deer Lodgie: I think the gentleman froin silver Bow has stated a very good reason why we should pu,t this lor Hie last thing on the file during the session of this convention. We have had scraps enough certainly during the last two days, and don't want anything that will create a scrap. I think, furthermore, that this being one of the propositions containing the ordinances, that we will find that some amend- ments are necessary to this ordinance. For that reason, I think it would be wise and expedient to postpone it for the last thing on th'^ file. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: I will accept the amendment of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke, Mr, Toole, The Chairman: The gentleman from Custer accepts the auirudmenl of the gentleman from I^ewis A: Clarke, The Chair put the question on the motion of the g(>ntlcmaii from Custer, Mr, Middleton, as amended on the motion of the genllemian from Lewis & Clarke, Mr, Toole, and a vole being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Loud, of Custer: I move lh;it the conimiltee now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chaii' put the question on t,lie motion of the gentli'maii trom Custer, Mr, Loud, and a vote being taken the same was declai'ed carrii'd. The Chair di'clared the ronimiltcc dissolved. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 657 IN CONVENTION. Prosidenf, Clark in the Chair. Tho convention was called to order. ^h•. Middleton. of Custer: I move you that the convention now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of general orders. The President: If the gentleman will withhold his motion for a moment, the convent ion will hear the report of the Chairman of the Com- mittee of the Whole. Mr. Kennedy, of .Missoula: The Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 33, Article on Ordinances, and have' requested nie to report the same ba.ck, with the recommendation that it be placed at the foot of the calendar. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports that the Committee of the ^^'hole have had under consideration Proposi- tion No. 33. and report the same back to the convention with the recom- mendation that it be placed at the foot of the calendar Mr. Eaton, of Park: I move that the report be received and adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Park, Mr. Eaton, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Middleton, of Custer: Now, Mr, President, I renew my motion that the convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Cieneral Orders. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Middleton, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The convention will now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, The gentleman from Missoula will resume the Chair, IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula, in the Chair, The committee was called to order. The Chairman: The Chaii desires to be informed what is the next proposition on the general file, Mr, Witter, of Beaverhead: I move that we take up Proposition No, 23, Article on Public Lands and Exemptions. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The Chair is informed by the Clerk that there are several propositions that would form a part of this proposition on public lands that have been referred to the Committee on Printing, to be printed, and that they have not yet been returned by that committee, and until their return it would not be in order to take up this proposition. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move we take up Proposition No, 24. The Chairman: If there are no objections, Proposition No, 24, article on Municipal Corporations and Officers will be taken up. General Files Nos, 9, 10 and 20, are to be considered in connection with this article. The Clerk will read Section one of the article. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 1. The several counties of the Territory of Montana, as they shall exist at the time of the admission of the State into the Union, are hereby declared to be the counties of the State until otherwise established or changed'by law," There being no amendment to Section 1, the Clerk read Section 2 as follows: "Sec. 2. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to remove the county seat of any county, but the same shall be provided for by gen- eral law, and no county seat shall be removed, unless a miajority of the qualified electors of the county, voting on a proposition ati a general election vote therefor: but no such proposition shall be submitted oftener than once in four years, and no person shall vote on such proposition who shall not have resided in the county six months, and in the election pre- cinct ninety days next preceding such election.'" Mr, Luce, of Gallatin: 1 move to strike out the words "a majority" in line 3, and insert in lieu thereof "two-thirds". The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Gallatin, Mr, Luce, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. (558 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: liclieving- that it is already |)rovidi>d for. T would move you, sir, to strike out after the Word "years" in line i of Section 2. the words "and no pi;rson sliaill vole on sueli proposition wlm shall not have resided in the eounty six months, and in Ihe eli-etinn precinct ninety days next preceding such election." I think that is already provided for in another part of the Constitution wherein the qualification of electors are prescribed. Mr. (.;iark. of Silver Bow: I would like tn ask the Keiilli'nuin wli.'rr it is. Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: In that section which prescribes Ihe qualifications of electors. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: There is no provision that a voter shall live six months in the county in which he votes. Mr. Bickford, of .Missoula: If I am wrong. I will withdraw the motion. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I am of the opinion that the section the gientleman refers to pro\'ides that an elector shall reside in the cnunly thirty days only. I am in favor of the proposition that no one shall vote upon that subject who has not resided in the county at least six months. The Chairman: The genlleman from Park offers an amendnn^nl, which does not seem gei'inane to the amendment of the gentleman from Missoula, so the Chair will put the amendment of the gentletnan from Missoula. which is to strike out in line 'i all words after the word "years" to the end of the section. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I think the gentleman from ISlis- soula is correct on that proposition. In lnuking over Proposition No. 11 I see the statement first, "Thai he shall liaxe resided in the state oni' year immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote, ami in the county, towai, oi' precinct such time as may be prescribed by law." .Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: Whether or not it is provided for, it IS in conflict with Section 2 of Proposition No. 14, for it says that every man is entitled to votC' at all general elections. This moving of a county seat must be at a general election, and Proposition No. H prescribes what are Ihi' qualifications of voter? at general elections, and tliat is evidently ni conflict witli that and should be stricken out. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Mis- soula, Mr. Bickford, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Fields, of Park: I will withdraw my amendment. The Chair: The genJIeman from Park withdraws his amendment. .\re thei-e any further amendments? Mr. Carpentei'. of Lewis & Clarke: 1 move to strike out all of lines 3 and 'i beginnin^c with the word "votiiig" on line 3, down to and including Ihe word "therefor" on IJTie i: and inserting in place thereof the words "at a general election nn a proposition to remove the county seat, sliall vote therefor." The motion was seconded. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarki': I do llial merely because this is vei'y indefinite. The Chair put the question on the niolion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Carpenter, and a vote being itaken the same was declared carrii>d. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I ni(i%e the aduiiliiiii ol' Seclimi 2-113 amended. The motion was seconded. The Chair [lut the queslion on the motion of tin' gentleman truin Silver Bow (Mr. Rickards', ami a xoti- being taken the same was dcclaccil (■ai'i'ied. There being no fvu'lhei' aniendmenls to Section 2, the Clrrk I'eaid Sec- tion 3, as follows: "Sec. 3. Tha! Ihe Legislative ,\ssemJ)ly shall provide by general law the maimrr in wihich a part of any county may be stricken from such county and added to aTiothei' county, or formed into a new county." Ml'. W'bilehill. of Deer Lodge: I move that section he stricki'n oul. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bicliford. of Missoula: .\s an amendment lo the niolion, I move you to strike out the word "general" in line I of the section. The amendment was seconded. The Chair stated the moti.in of Ihe i;ruileman from Missoula. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 650 Mr. Goddard, of Yellowst-one: I believe that we have adopted a propo- sition to go into the eonstitution which provides that, a matlter of this kind eould not be done at a special election, so that if you strike out the word "general" in that section, then it would have to be by a special election, and the other prof)osition would be in conflict with it, and I am in favor of striking out the iMitire section, as proposed. .Mr. \\hiteliill. of Deer Lodge: My idea of striking out that section is this. It is an absuid proposition to have here. How in the world are we here to compel the Legislature to do anything? Our object here is to make fundamental law. and to place limitations upon the Legislature. We caii tell the Legislatui-e what it sliall not do. but that we shall put something in here saying that they shall do something, and must do something-, is absurd: that is forcing them. We cannot mandamus them to do a thing that they do not want to do, and without this section they have a perfect right to everything that is incorporated here, and I say it means nothing. The books are full of decisions on this proposition, that our business here is to make fundamental propositions, if we please, or to legislate; but we cannot tell any other body that they must legislate, and so I say this sec- tion is nonsensical and means nothing. The Legislature can do that with- out it, and will do it. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from .Mis- soula, Mr. Bicklord, and a \oie being taken the same was declared lost. The Chair: The question recurs upon the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge to strike out the entire section. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I hope this motion will not prevail. Simply because I believe that if you strike out the section, then the Legislature will not have power to take off any portion of one county and add it to another. We have provided heretofore that this legislative power can only be had by general law. and if we do not provide in this constitution that this particular thing can be done, then I believe that the Legislature would not have the power. I think that is the idea of this commiltee in putting it in here. Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: I do not like to be obliged to read law books here, but this thing has been settled so often and so frequently by decisions of the court that I would like to read a few sections in this book by Cooley on Constitutional Limitations. I'The gentleman read extracts from said book.i We are here for the purpose of placing restrictions upon the Legisla- ture, not for the purpose of telling the Legislature what they shall do, or what they must do. As I say. we authorize them and say they shall make provision for this matter, and there is no mode of compelling them to do it unless they see fit to do it themselves. A court cannot compel them, and if the Legislature refuses to do anything, when we say they shall do it, why. there you are powerless again. The legislative department is not made specially for the exercise of specified powers: but it is entrusted with the general power to make law^ at their discretion. 'Here the gentleman read further extracts from Cooleiy itn Constitu- tional Limitations.' ^^■e are here to place limitations upon the Legislature. Now, the books are full of just such passages as those I have read in regard to this matter of telling the Legislature that they shall or must do this or that. You cannot compel them. The Legislature have this power, and undoubtedly will pass such laws as are necessary. I say that this is just simply a useless section, and for that reason I am perfectly willing that the Legis- lature shall do all of tJiis. but they have that power now. and for that reason, I say, we do not want to build up our constitution with silly propositions which have no meaning and no force, and can have no force. For that reason I think it ought in be stricken out. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge, to strike out the section, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Section 1. as follows: "Sec. 4. In all cases of the establishment of a new count\. it shall be held to pay its ratable propor- tion of all then existing liabilities of the county or counties from which it is formed, less the ratable proportion of the value of the county builrl- ings and property of the couiiity or counties from which it is formed." Mr. Conrad, of Choteau: I would like to have read in connection with this General File No. 20. Resolution No. 14. 660 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES The Cliairiiinn: The goiilli'in;in asks lluiL Ri'snlulinn .Nn. 1 1, (ieiicral Fli' N(i. 20, a proposition the i:hair beliexes thai was submitted bj- the gentleman for ineoi-poration iitlo the einistitulion, be read wilh lliis section. Tlie Clerk read the resohition las follows: "Resolved, that tliere shall be no new counties established unless the assessed valuation wilhln tin- limits or boundaries described for the proposed county shall be $3,000,0en years ago had an assessed valuation of !j(()00.0(10 and got along very well. That is as complete a comity governmi'nt as any in the territory, and paid its expenses and paid its debt. The great county of Lewis & Clai'ke a few years ago only had an assessed valuation of ?3,500.000, and if you put "this in your constitution you will block the wheels right hei'e and say to the people of Montana and this legislatui'e. >ou have sixteen counties and you shall have no more. If you provide this you say that instead of a $3,000,000 valuation the county cannot be divided until it has $6,000,000 of assessed valuation. It is legislation to begin with, and if it was fundamental law, it is not the place here. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I think we ought to have some consideration for the taxpayers of Montana. Now, the gentleman goes on and says there 's a portion of the territory divided by the Missouri River, meaning D.awsou county. The gentleman on this floor, Mr. Haski>ll, who assessed thai ( ounty last year found $200,000 of assessed valuation outside of the Mani- toba Railroad. Now, -any gentleman on this floor knows that a county gov- ernment cannot be run on an assessed valuation of less than $2,000,000. which would make ahoni, $27,000. You hold t'our terms of District Conrl out of that, which you have pi'o\ided for. I hn\e been a member of the Board of Comity Commissioners, and I know something about the matter. Now, where is the money coming from unless you have .$3,000,000 of assess- able jiroperty to pay the mining expenses: and the people who have proj)erty in this country are enlitlerl to some consideration and ought not to be taxed to death by men wiio want office. At each session of the Legis- lature there are a lot of lobbyists around here that want new counties. Some want to be sheriff, some treasurers, and so on, and if you put a claus.> in here putting some amount, of taxable propei'ty, by which amount it cannot be created and without that amount of taxable property it caimol be ci'eated, they camiot come around here. 1 think that the iiro\ iso ought to be pul, in there. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis iK: Clarke: I rise to explain the position taken by the iieiitjeman fi-om Cascade. I hope that this provision will not be pul in the constitution. I hope to see the liay, in a short liime When there will he fifty coimlies in this slatn. I believe in small counties, and I belie\c their affaii's are economically conducted. I belie\e their officers are closer to the peoi)le. I have known when the counties of this territory w(M'e small and tb(>ir assessed valuation was small, and I believe the county governments wi'i'e then better conducted. I believe it is the tendency of large and wealthy counties to create extravagance. Yes, to create the deniiand tor great, public buildings and extravagance in other ways. I tliink llial, any one ought to h<' able to go to his comity seat in on(> day; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 661 and it wouM bi' i)i;'tler if ln' could go there and liack in (uie day. I beliiive the eounties oushl to bo s" snial! that llierc would bo a general unity of interest and not a conflict as there is in our counties between different sections of llie cnuntry. There ne\ er has lieen a county created except after a- struggle in the Legislature, ami there ne\er has been a county created thai, was not rightfully created: and this county of Dawson had to be created by an act of Congress — the only county in the United States, I belie^•e that was so crealed — because its formation was unjustly opposed by inlei-ested people. I think we may safely leave this matter to the Legis- lature, and 1 believe it will be for the interest of the territory, and for its welfare to ha\e smaller counties, and allow the people more latitude in making them. In these big counties outlawry always exist.s away from the county centi'e. Every new county seat is a new centre of growth and development and a new goveinm'ent> and I hope the provision will not prevail. "\Ir. Ramsdell, of Missoula; It seems to me that this is an iron clad provision here that is not wtanted. I am speaking for my owti section of the country, although we are not amliitious at present to slice the large county of Missoula into three pieces, but no doubt at sonie early day steps will be taken to accomplish this, yet I think the people of that section of the country would look with disfa\or upon the passage of that provision. T believe the Legislature of Montana is sufficiently intelligent and practical to at all times cope with this nuestion; and if the people of any section are desirous of forming a new county, and can advance intelligent reasons, notwithstanding the fact that there are always office-seekers anxious for those offices, I believe it would he better to allow the people that choice: and all hough as I say. the people of our county are not anxious at this time to divide that new country, yet I have no doubt that in the near future as the railroad development progresses that (he step will be taken, and I think it can be taken with justice to all. Mr. BroNMie of Choteau: I am opposed to this matter being in the constitution. I think it is a matter for the Legislature. Mr. Conrad of Chot'^au: A gentleman on this floor has presented a resolution that the stale assume the debts of each county, and if the slate had to assume the debts of these counties, it is my opinon that they would be less anxious to di\ tde these counties and make new ones of them, when they are wholly 'and absitlutely unable to take care of themselves. It is nonsense right at the lieginning to allow these counties to put on the garments of independent government before they are able to wear the swad- dling clothes of infancy. Now, if they have enough assessable property to commence with, there would be no taxes created that the people would not be willing and aide to bear. I know in our county where the assessed valua- tion is •'?2.800,000. we have a debt over SIOO.OOO. After paying the interest on that, and the county expenses for this year we will run behind $.3,000. That is why I put the limit in there. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: In connection with this Propositon No. 2'i. I ask that the Clei-k reail a petitif)n that is on file from the residents of Cilasgow, Dawson County, to be considered with this. The Clerk read the said petition, signed by numerous citizens of Dawson County, petitioning the convention not to take favorable action on the Conrad Resolution. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: Now, so far as flial concerns Proposition No. 24, or the amendment offered to it by Mr. Conrad. I am of the opinion that that oought to be divided. Now. the county of Dawson is nearly 2.35 nx'iles in length, and noi'th of the Missoui-i River it is over 200 miles wide. Now. if this |iroi)Osition is incoi-porated as an amendment to Proposition No. 24. it would cei-tainly be at least ten years before you would be able to obtain a division of the C0. Now. with the incoming immigra- tion that will come in here this year that will undoiibtedly have a pop\ila- tion inside of twelve months of 2,000. and it is no more than justice lo thosi> people who knock at the doors of this convention to grant them (hal whi{'li 662 PROGEEDIN(iS AM) DEBATES t.lipy a-ilv. and tliat. is, lliat Ihis provisimi iiil iinliiccil Ijy Mr-. Cimrail shall DOt bo iiicdi'porated as a part of the fundann'iital law. I say it will be an aft of justice to Ihosc people who live o\i>i- there. Vou take it, as they allege in that appeal to this (:on\ eiitinn, (hat they are obliged to travel a distance of 225 to 230 miles to get to the county seat. iNow, I beg you gentlemen to consider that proposition fairly. It is a matter of eciuity and justice, althougli it may not lie doing au act of justice to some of the other- counties. Suppose we liad a criminal case come up; it would cost us at least a matter of $500 to try it. as the county seat is now located in the southern [lart of the county. In an air line it is 230 miles, hut the only way you can reach it by railroad is by going into Dakota up to Fort Buford. Those [leople at Glendive appeal to us for justice. As the law now stands we are unable lo give it to them, except to give them a justice of the peace, and in my judgment, it will be a great saving to all of the people in that part of the territory, when t;he county can be divided. It would be no more than justice to that part of the countx- of I)a\Vson lying south of the Missouri River, and also to the North. The gentleman from Choteau, Mr. Conrad, under- stands the situation just as well as I do. He probably is acquainted with a great number of those peo|>le, and in my judgment this proposition of Mr. Conrad's ought not to be incorporated into the constitution, not on the ground that it would be only doing an act of equity and justice to us to divide our county, but because in my humble judgment it is purely legislative matter: and as this convention has already taken the ground that we propose to stop so far as incorporating legislative matter is concerned in this constitu- tion, I ask the convention to draw the line here now, and say to these people who have petitioned this convention that this clause shall not be incorporated. Mr. Conrad of Choteaai: I would just say for the information of the con- vention that Glasgow is the end of a division of the railroad, and I see that there are 65 signatures to thi; petition. Now, Mr. Haskell knows as well as I do that there are no more than forty people living there outside of the employes. Mr Haskell of Dawson: Although that may be true, I recollect that there were more than 100 Democratic votes cast against me in that precinct last year (Laughter). I also found 90 of them sleeping there this year. Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: I do not like to take issue with my col- league from Dawson county, but I believe I am bound to do it sometime. Ha makes the statement here, that if he tells the truth, arid the whole truth in relation to this matter, that it will defeat this propTisition and he will lose his case. Now, f lnok upon ttiis proposition as a matter of equity and justice to the people who live in the county to he created. Certainly no people living in any section of Montana ought to have a government of a county saddled upon them unless they are in a position to afford it, and certainly this constitutional provision would not bar them of that right, simply because the resolution offered by the gentleman provides that before a county shall be created they shall have an assessable value of $3,000,000. It has been demonstrated in every new county that has been oi'ganized in this territory since its existence that a county cannot start its courts and the machinery- of govei-nnieiit on a ciMit less than ••?:!.( kmi.OOO of assessed valuation. Now. then it is not fair, if there should happen lo be a town nf iOO or 500 inhabitants located in one corner of the cdunty. to satisfy the ambition of a lew men to create a county for the pm-pnse of getting office, to saddle a debt upon them for the purpose of carrying on a government in their county, and not only that but mider this provision in the constitution, which I presume will be adoiiled in section I. it provides that they shall assiune their portion of the indebtedness of the old county, which is double the amount of the; cost of tfie permanent buildings. So that nearly every county in the territory — nearly every one of these large coun- ties in area ai-e more or less in debt and to ci-eate a new county, for instance in Hie co\uity of Dawson over at Glasgow would saddle upon the peopli^ of that section of the country a debt. Certainly thuse jieople down thei-e have a T-ighl, ti> say what they want about this nialter, but I am inclined to think with the gentleman from Choteau that a great niajoi-ity uf the persons who signed that petition are not pi-opert\' holders and pay no taxes in that, county. 1 i-i«i-(igni/.e the fact that the pr'nileman says thei-e were about that many voles against liitu there on the Democratic side; hut I recogniz':" the fact to be true further, that that has been the history of Montana ever since its organization, that a number of men have voted the Democratic ticket, and I may say that some of them have \'iited the Hepidilican tii'ket CONSTITUTIONAI. CONVENTION 1889 663 who have no intoresl in (.•oniinon with Ihe pi'ople who live in the county in which they vote: who pay not a dollar of" taxes in the county; and I dont believe that the county ought to undertake to bear the responsibility of a t:overiiment until the taxpayers of the county say they are entitled to it and demand it: and I shall support the proposition of ihe gentleman fi'om Choteau upon this principle, that no county shall be created until they are ready t« assume the government of a county and until they can pay the expensi-s. Now. when Yellowstone County was created out of Cr.ster County, there was a large indebtedness in Custer County. Yellow- stone Coimty had to assume about §50,000 of that indebtedness, and I have an idea that about 849.000 of that is unjust: but be that as it may. it has placed a burden upon Yellowstone County that it will not be rid of for many years to come. For these reasons I shall support the proposition. Mr. Bui-leigh of Custer: I agi-ee with the geidteman who spoke here in the main upon several topics advanced hen', but one reason why I am opposed to this amendment is that this is a matter within the exclusive province of the Leg-islature. in my judgment, and I think the Legislature can be safely entrusted to examine the matter when it comes before I hem and act intelligently, as they will honestly, in the premises. They will determine whether it is necessary to create a new county, or whether it is not; whether the interests of ihe people demand a new county or whether they do not. Now, 1 for mie. maintain that small counties, as suggested by my friend. Major Maginnis, are much more eccmomically ad- ministered so far as their affairs an- concerned than a large county, even with the same cumber of officers and with the same resources. Now, my friend from Yellowstone County has alluded to the indebtedness of Custer County, ai:d to having broken away from the bonds of the parental authority down there and set up housekeeping for themselves, and he says they assumed ■'K)0,IjO0 of indebtedness, 849,000 of which he believes to be unjust. Now, I will tell > ()U just how this indebtedness occurred. It came in consequence of having a county almost as large as the six New England States, the sheriffs fe"s. the witnesses" fees and the jury fees absorbed everything. \\ liy. I havt known a single term of court of Custer County, when it ran clear to the British lines or nearly there, to cost §27,500. After getting rid of Dawson County, and a cheerful parting with our friend from Yellow- stone County, the expense began to come down, and the last term of court cost les'- than 83,000. Now. there is economy in having small county governments to administer, and the sinalh^r the county is the less the expense. I care nothing about the jiopulation. and I care nothing about the wealth of the county. When you come to take a county that requires you to send a sheriff and his deputies two or tJiree or four hundred miles to serve processes, to bring' witnesses into court, to get jurors and every- thing of that kind, you have shouldered a liability that would swamp any county in the countrj-. Now. I dont believe there is any danger in entrusting- this thing to the Legislature. I havi?agreat deal of confidence in a Montana Legislature even, and I believe that when they come to consider this matter. they will do it fairly, dispassionately and with a view to justice and economy. Now, I am not one of those men who are so distrustful of my fellow-man as some men are. Perhaps I have more faith than some of them. I cer- tainly have more than my friend who addressed us this evening, and tfl whatever annoyances we have been subjected heretofore, we are all right now. The citizens of Montana have gone to Botany Bay. and have imported a s^■stem of voting that is a panacea for all of our political wounds and a pood deal more. I hope the motion of the gentleman from Choteau County will not prevail. I do not think it is proper to put his resolution in the constitution. I think it is a proper matter to leave within the control of the Legislature, and the Legislature only: and while a great deal has been said aJjout there not being anything north of the Missouri Piiver I have been over every mile of that country there, and it is as fine a grain growing countiy as there is in the world, and having become opened up. and the Manitoba Railroad going through there, it is going to be a populous, densely settled country. It is only a question of time when it will be necessary to admit them to the privileges of a new county govern- ment, because if they are going to maintain their county seat at Glendive, it could not help them: there will be nothing left of it. In regard to the population there now I know nothing about it: but as my friend remarked when this little question came up in regard to the number of people over there that there was one hundred Demooratic votes polled against him. I Will say that I have no doubt of that: I would not be surprised if there 664 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES were 200. Tlie couiilry lia.s I'xporienccd some jjhenomenal lowns dvpi- Miat way — W'ilder's LaiifJiiig and Tolley's Ranch. I hope the niolinn will not prevail. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I wish lo add my protest to those who have already spoken against the adoption of this resolution. I quite agree with Mr. Goddard. I believe that a eounty government should not be forced upon the people until they want it: but 1 believe the Legislative Assembly is as competent to judge of the wants or needs of a cci-tain section of this territory or stale as this Constitutional Convention, and I am opposed to incorporating anythng in our constihilimi of this character. I want to say, too, in view of our action here last S;iturday, that if we are going to adopt a proviso of this chai'acter, at all. I would rather favor $12,000,000 than .'?3.(iO'i.OOO so as to make it practically impossible to ever have a new county in Montana. The (chairman: The question is upon the adoption of General File No. 20, the resolution offered by the gentleman from Choteau, which has been reterred back- to the Committee on City, County and Town Organi- zations without recommendation, and which it is moved to place at the end of Seclion 4 of Article 24 as a proviso. Mr. Hobson of Fergus sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman moves a second proviso that nothing in this section shall present the readjustment of county lines between existing counties. The motion was seconded. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: 1 believe that is an amendment to the amend- ment, and I will accept that. The Chairman: The gentleman ri'oni Choteau arcepts this amendment to his resolution. The Chair put the question on the motion t» adopt the resolution offered by Mr. Conrad of Choteau, and a \ote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Hobson of Fergus: I would like to renew my amendment and have the proviso attached to the printed section. The Chairman: The gentleman from Fergus desires to renew his amendment to the printed section as follows: "Provided that nothing in this sci>tion shall prevent the readjustment of county lines between exist- ing counties." Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move the adoption of that proviso. Ttie motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Burleigh, and the same was declared carried. Mr. llogan. of Silver Bow: I move that the section be adopted as amended. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silvei' Bow. Mr. Hogan. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to Section i, the Clerk read Section 5 las follows: "Sec. 5. When any part of a county is stricken from one oi- more counties and attached to another, the county to which such [lart is attached shall be liable to pay the ratable proportion of such part of all then existing liabilities of the county or counties from which such jiart is taken, less the ratable proportion of the value of the county build- ings and property of the county or counties from which such part is taken." Mr. Magiinnis of Lewis it Clarke: I move to strike out Section ,5; it is purely legislation and ought to be left to the Legislature. Ttio motion was seconded. Tlie Cliair put the question on the sairl motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Maginnis, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Seclion (i as follows: "Sec 6. When any county formed from contiguous territory taken from older counties, or when any county to which territory shall be added or taken from, an adjoiidng county, shall fail to pay the iiroportion of indebt- edness of such territory to the county or counties fi-om which it is taken, then it may be lawful for the covmt\- ti'oni which such terrilorv has l)een CONSTITrxrONAL CONVENTION 1889 (Uio taken to I'ocdxer from the eouiit>- so failing to pay. by action at law, the proportion of indebtedness for which it shall be liable, as provided in the two procedinp sections." Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: T move to strike out Section 6. 'I'he motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Clark, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Whitehill of Dt'ov Lodge: I move that Sections 7 and 8 be stricken out for the same reason that Section 5 was stricken out. The Chairman: The Clerk will read the section before any motions are received. The Clerk read Section 7 as follows: "Sec. 7. The Legislative Assem- bly shall provide by law for the subdivision of the several counties of the State into townships, districts, or precincts, of convenient number and size." Ml-. Whitrhill, of Deer Lodge: I renew my motion to strike out Section 7. The motion was seconded. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I would like to know how this matter is to be provided for if it is to be stricken out. The Legislative Assembly should be empowered, it seems to me, to do this. There is no provision for it. Mr. \\'hitehill, of Deer Lodge: Referring to the sections that I have read from the law books, they say that the power of the Legislature is absolute. The only limitation i.-? whe^e^■er the constitution says they can- not do a thing. Now. I go further than any gentleman of this convention, and I do not propose to be shut up by the sneers of those who say that we have all the wisdom of this age and the age to come. This Legisla- ture cannot pass any provision different from that: but I say we are coming in here and saying that the I,egislature shall do so and so. Why, it is .superfluous. It has no business here, and the Legislature has a perfect right when they are not limited by us to pass any laws they see fit. If it is for the good of the people to legislate on this matter they will do it. and if we state that they shall do this, that does not compel them if they see fit not to do it. These sections are just encum- bering our constitution with a lot of trash that has no force or effect whatever. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I agree fully with the remarks of the gentle- man from Deer Lodge. The convention. I suppose, does vmderstand. and every lawyer understands the difference between the constitution of the State and the constitution of the United States. For instance, the consti- tution of the I^'nited States is that of delegated powers. It is the recepta- cle of the powers that have been granted to it by the States, and that is the limitation. Now. the power of the Legislature stands upon an entirely different basis. The Congress of the United States must legislate within the jjiiwers .granted to it by the States respectively, but the constitution of the State possesses plenary powers provided they are not in conflict with the powers that have been granted by the States to the United States. Foi- instance. w"e start out in every Stale constitution .with the Bill of Rights, ajid reserve something to the people, but wherever those reservations are not made T think it has always been held that the Legis- lature has full power to legislate. Consequently, upon the division of the coimties, it is not necessary to grant any power to the Legislature because it is not withheld from them anyway, that I know of, and not being withheld the power can be exercised. The power of the people of I he Territory of Montana will hereafter be exercised by the Legislature of the Slate of Montana, so far as it has not been withheld oi- limited by this constitution. That is the w-ay I understand it. and I think that the gentleman from Deer Lodge is perfectly right. The Chairman: The question i3 upon the motion to strike out Section 7. The Chair i)ut ttie question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. Mi. \Miitehill. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: I move that the reading of Section "8 be dispesised with, and that it be stricken out. The motion was seconded. C66 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES 'I'lin C.hnii- put the quostioii on the said motion of the gentleman from Di'ci Lciilge, Mr. W'hilchill. anii a vote being taken the same was declared rarriea. The t:ierl< read Section ;• as follows: "Sec. 0. In each county there, slmll be elected three Covuity Commissioners, who shall compose the Board of <;ounty Commissioners, and who shall hold sessions for the transactif)n of county business as provided by law, and any two of whuni shall constitule a quorum for the transaction of business. The board shall elect one of its members chairman." Mr. Warren, of Siher How: I move an amendment to Section 9. The Chairmian: The gentleman from Silver Bow moves to amend Section 9 by adding the following: "Provided that all county and town- ship officers now holding office in the Territory of Montana, or in any county or townsliip of said Territory, are hereby declared to be officers in the respective counties or towmships of the State of Montana until the general election for congi'essmen in the year 1890, shall elect their successors, and thereafter until their successors shall qualify." Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of that amendment. 'J'he motion was seconded. Mr. Goddard, of Yellowstone: I would suggest simply to the gentleman who introduced the amendment that ho excepts out of that amendment tho Probate Judge, as the Judiciary Act has provided for I he abolition of that office. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow-: I accept that amendment. The Chair stated the luotion. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I have no objection to the amendment as offered by Mr. Warren being considered on its merits: but I move to amend by striking out all of Section 9 after the wtord "Commissioners" in line 2. Tho motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I will very briefly give my reasons for that. It seems to me sup(M"fluous. If my motion pre\ails. we have pro- vided that the counfv shall have three County Commissioners, who shall compose the Board of County Commissioners. Now, the idea of going on to say that they shall hold sessions, and how many shall constitute a quorum, and when they shall elect their chairman, seems to me to be superfluous. Mr. Whilehill, of Deer T>odge: I disagree with the gentlenian as to its being superfluous. Where we want to legislate here, we can do it. It is purely legislation and it may be proper. It is well enough if we want to legislate on that subject for us to legislate and say I hey shall hold sessions for the transaction of business. We can say that here if we want to. Mr. (ioddard, of Yellowstone: Yes. but we don't, want to. The Chair put, the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Rickards, and la vote being taken the same was ileclared carried. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I will withdraw my amendment for the purpose of adding the same to Section 11 when it comes up. Mr. Fields, of Park: I believe after the words "who shall com]iose the Board of County Commissioners", the woi-ds. "the Board of Comity Equalization" should go in. I think we provided the other day for a Stat,e Board of Equalization, and a County Bnard of Equalizalinn, and the County (Tommissioners should conipi'ise that board. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I will ask tlie ^'ontleman if Hint is not already provided foi' in another section. Mr. Fields, of Park: I understand it is jjcovidcd foi'. Iml it is lurn- tioned hei'e that the County Commissioners shall cnmpris(^ the Bourd of County Commissioners, and if you put in the words "who shall compose the Boai'd of County Commissionei's". I don't see 'miy reason why lli(> Board of County Equalization shoulfl not be fixed also. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: I would suggest to the gentleman that that is provided for in the other section. The Board of Count\- Commis- sioners, as T understand it, is the Board of Ftiualization, and they have a special term for silting as the Board of Equinlizafion. • The Clerk read Section in ns follows: "Sec. 10. The term of office of the County Commissioners shall be four years, except as ollierwise proxided for in this constitution. At the fii-st generni el(ict.ion iinnideii CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 667 for by this constitution tliere sliall be elected in each county three County Commissioners. The one receiving the highest number of votes shall hold his office until the general election in 1896: the one receiving the next highest number of votes shall hold his office until the general election in 1891. and the one receivini; the lowest number of votes shall hold his office until thi> general election in 1892; and each shall bolil his office until his successor is elected and qualified. A vacancy in the Board of County Commissioners shall be filled by appointment by the Governor." Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I move to amend Section 10 by insei'ting the words, "after tlie fii'sl geni-ral election provided for after the adoption of this constitution"" instead nf ""After the first general election provided for by this constitution." The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The gentleman from Silver Bow moves to amend the section by adding after the word "for" in line 2. the words "after the adoption of"" and striking out the word "by" in line 2. Mr. Hartnmn. of Ciiallatin: I move as a substitute for the amendment til insert after the word "constitution"" on line 3 the words "after its adoption"", so that it will read "at the first general election provided for by this constitution after its adoption."" Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I will accept the substitute of the gentle- man from Ciallatin in place of the amendment offered by myself. The Chairman: The gentleman from Silver Bow accepts the substi- tute offered by the gentleman from Gallatin in lieu thereof: amend Sec- tion 10 by inserting after the ^^•^ord "constitution"' on line 3. the words "after its adoption.'" So that it will read "At the first general election provided for by this constitution after its adoption." Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I cannot understand how that changes the sense of the reading of this section at all. It reads now: "At thi» first general election provided for by this constitution after its adoption." It is no constitution until it is adopted. Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: ;\Ir. Chairman, I notice that the effect of my amendment is not what I intended it to be, and I therefore with- draw it. The Chairman: The gentleman withdraws his amendment. Mr. Cooper ,of Gallatin, sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Gallatin. Mr. Cooper, moves to strike out the last word in line 8, and insert in lieu thereof, "District Judge'", so that the vacancy in the Board of County Commissioners instead of being filled by the Governor shall be filled by the District Judge. The motion was seconded. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I would say in favor of the motion that I do not believe that the Governor ought to have anything to do with county affairs. In the first place, the Governor is not qualified to select; he does not knijw the people, as a rule, in the counties, and he certainly is not qualified to select officers to do the business of the counties. Hence, I am opposed to any interference of that kind, and I believe that the Judge of the district or somebody else should do that. It will read if amended, "A vacancy in the Board of County Commissioners shall be filled by the District Judge." That is the way the section would read if amended. It takes it out of the hands of the Governor and delegates it to the District Judge. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin fMr. Cooper), and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Collins, of Cascade, sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Cascade, Mr. CoHin.s. moves to strike out Section 10, and to add to Section 9 the following: "Whose term of office shall be two years, except as otherwise provided for in thi's constitution." Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I nv^xr llie adoption of lliat amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: This motion is to strike out Section 10 — the entire section — and to add to Section 9 the words "Whose term of office shall be two years, except as otherwise provided in this constitution." 668 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Collins, of Cascade: II inif;lil bo best to stfike out. everylhint; else bul, the secoiiii sentence ol Seel ion 10, and add this to the two sen- tences, so that, it would read as follows: "At the first f;eneral election l>rovided for by this eonstitution there shall be elected . three County Commissioners whosi' tei-ni of office shall be two years, except as provided for in this conslitulion." Thi? (chairman: The gentleman then moves to amend by inserting after the word "Commissioners" in line 3 of Section 10, the words, "whose term of office shall l)e two jears, except as otherwise provided in this constitution." Mr. Collins, of Cascade: My intention was to leave the last clause of Section 10 in. and insert this after the word "Commissioners" in line 3. The Chairman: The section then as moved to he (amended by the gentleman from Cascade would read. "At the first general election pro- ^ ided foi' by this constitution there shall he elected in each county three County Commissioners whose term of office shall be two years except as otherviise provided in this constitution. A vacancy in the Board of County Commissioners shall be filled by appointment of the District •ludgie." Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: I nio\e the adoption of the amendment of the gentlenwn from Cascade. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Collins, of Cascam. If we get bad men we cannot do anything but elect them for two years, t tolil you they get a little scabby sometimes, and I am in favor of electing them for two years and trusting to luck to fill their positions. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: My experience wjlli counix malliMs and County Commissioners would certainly lead me to believe this is not a wise policy. I have noticed in coming in contact with County Com- missioners, while in possession of I'ounty offices myself, that a new board of County Commissioners often consists of farmei's or possibly miners, or men not familiar with the details of county work, and it takes them almost the wliole of the first year to learn the routine of the busi- ness, and it is uphill work for them. If they hold out for two years, it is possible they may be re-elected, but the usual history is that after a man has served a term in a county office that he gets such a hauling over the coals that he is not anxious for the offii'e afterwards. K is something unusual to find a Commissioner succeeding himself. It seems now that the provisions of this bill ai'e wise. One goi's out every two years. That leaves -an old member at the helm all the time. .A new man ooines in; he is very soon initialed in the a<'tual business of the (d'fice. and it makes the business of the board run more smoothly, nmi-e so than il would if you (dected a new board evei'y two years. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I rlislike very muidi to lake up IJie lime ami attention of the convention; but the very reason that the gentleman assigns here for wanting to continue them for six years or foiu" years is the very leason which I urge against it. Now. ho says they learn the routine of the business. My experience has lieeu that they learn it too effeclualb. CONSTITL'TIO.NAL CO.WENTION 1889 GC9 Thpy get, so after a while lliaf they acciuire this art of what we used to know when boys as pi-esto change, that, is, now you see it now you dont. Laughter Now. a few years ago it became necessary in Custer County to bond its public indi'btedness. and there was a law passed in this Legislature allowing the Commissioners to bond the outstlerk agiain called the roll. The Chaplain offered pra>er. The Clerk read the journal of the iirevious day. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Deer Lodge, sent up a report of standing coimnittee on Mining and Water Rights. Th(>, President: Tlie report of the Coimnittee on Mining ;uiil Water Rights will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. Presitlent, your Connnittee (ni Mining, Water and Water Rights, to whom was referred Memorial No. I, relating to the importation of lead oi'es from Mexico have had the sair)e under consideration and ask leaxe to report the same hack williout i-erom- niendation. (Signed) -T. R. T<)(;)IjK, Chaii'inan. The President: What is the pji'asni'e nf the convention conciM'ning' this report? Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis it Clarke: t'iisl, is a motion for its adoption in order? I move the adoption of the re|i iiropcisilion for aiiicle on WatcM' and Water Rights. CONSTITlTIOXAr. CONVENTIOX ISS9 GTt Mr. W'aiTpii. of Silver Bow: I rise lo a point of order in this matter. It is no proper matter to go into the constitution, and as I understand, it has no rig-ht to bo considered by any committee. It was wrongfully committed to this committee. The President: A motion to commit is always in order, and being the only motion before the convention, the Chair will put the motion. The Chair put, the motion. Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: In view of the fact that I haM' understood from one of the members that they do not propose to make any report on this maft,er, I hope this motion will not prevail. I hope it will bury this matter. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: It is not my intention tfl bury this matter. It is my intenlon to get it before the Committee of the Whole, or the convention. There must be some course taken to get it before the Com- mittee of the ^^'hole. Unless taken up with some proposition it cannot be considered in Committee of the \\'hole. I want to keep it alive so that we may consider it and discuss it. and do with it that which is proper tfl be done. It should go on the general file in some manner. I know of no other way. Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: Is a motion to amend in order? The President: A motion to amend is not in order. Mr. Aiken, of Silver Bow: .\s this is a matter not to be reported in the constitution. I make a motion that that resolution be laid on the fable. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Mr. President. I would like to know what this memorial is. I just got "Mexico" in my ear. and I could not tell whether it was a scheme for the annexation of Mexico to the United Stat-es or what. The Clerk read the memorial for the information of the gentleman. Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: Mr. President. I move as an amendment that tills memorial be adopted as the sense of this convention. The motion was seconded. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I was just going to rise to a point of, order, as to whether that motion is debatable Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I am heartily in favor of most of the statements in this memorial, but I w"ould ask whether it is to he con- strued as a vote of censure on the Republican administration: if it is. I should be a little tender about voting on it. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I just want to make one remark. The President: This question will be received without debate. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I want to explain my vote then. (Laughter I am heartily in favor of the amendment embraced in this proposition. I have no objection to their taking their lead in any direction they want to. but, we don't want it here. The President: The gentleman is out of order. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I would ask for information: what the history of this memorial is? The Clerk read the history of the memorial for the information of the gentleman. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Xow, Mr. President, if I understand the motion, it is to lay this matter on the table, and on that I call for the ayes and nays. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: I wish tncall attention to one fact. I notice that this is called Memorial \o. I. If I remember correctly. Major Maginnis presented a memorial here respecting arid lands Which was marked No. 1. The President: The Clerk will look that matter up, and correct the number if it is WTong. If there is no objection, the ayes and nays will be entered in the journal. Those in favor of the motion to lay the resolu- tion on the table will when their names are called say aye. and those opposed no. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I want to explain my vote upon this propo- sition. It seems to me to be political dodge on the part of the gentleman who introduced it. and I w-ant simply to say that I object to making a special case of this lead matter. If he will include all the Montana indus- tries I would be very apt to vote for it. I shall vote aye. 672 PROCEEDr.NGS A.\D DEBATES Mr. Hershfield, of Lewis A. Clarke: I would like to explain iny vole in this matter. I am heartily in favor and in accord with I he intent of the memorial. I would like to see a ruling from I lit- Secretary of the Treasury in favor of the lead interests of Montana: but the language in the memorial does not accord with the proper dignity and i)ropriety towards the officials of the government, and therefore I shall vole aye. The Clerk called the roll, and the vole stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken. Bickford, Browne, Collins. Cooper, Courtney, Dixon, Gay- lord, Gibson. Hanniiond, Hatch, Hershfield, Hogan, Joyes, Middleton, Myers, llobinson, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.; Winston — 20. Nays: Brazlelon, Breen, Huford. BuUard, Burleigh, Burns, E.: Calla- way, Carpentei'. Chessman, Conrad, Craven, Dyer, Eaton, Gillette, Goddard, Hartman, Haskell, Hickman, Hobson, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Knowles, Ivohrs, Loud, Luce, Maginnis, Marshall, McAdow, Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek, Rolwitt, Rickai'ds. Sargent, Toole, .Jos. K.: Warren, Wittei-. Mr. Presi- dent^39. Absent: Burns. A. F.; Burns, A. J.: Cardwell, Cauby. Durfee. Fields, Graves, Joy, Kanouse, Marrion, Mayger, Mufh. Parberry. Schmidt, Watson, Webster — 16. The Chair announced the Note and lieclared the inollon in lay Ihe resolution on the table lost. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: In connection with this mattci-. 1 wish to disclaim any political dodge or anything of the kind. 1 have in my hand a letter wTitten to M. D. Van Horn, secretary of the .\merican Lead Producers Association, to the Honorable B. C. Kingsberry. one of the in-ominent Democrats of this country. Mr. Kingsberry handed me this resolution written by the secretaiy of that association. A like r'esolution had also been sent to the Idaho Constitutional Convention, and they adopt ed it. I have a telegram from the Washington Constitution Convention saying that they have without a dissenting voice adopted the resolution. and saying, what is the matter with Montana? I disclaim any partisan sid(> issue or anything of the kind. I now move the adoption of the resolution. The President: The motion Is to commit to the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Luce, of Giallatin: Now. sir, I am right about this matter. Per- haps the language of this memorial might be changed by this convention. I think we are not wholly ready to vote upon this and commit ourselves upon the memorial u|ion a mere reading of the matter, and my object in having it printed is to have it laid upon the desks of every member here. I don't tliink there is anything the matter with Montana. I may vote for it or against it. as I see lit. I ha\e no general recollection now as to what was in that, and T make the moliion to have it put somewhere on the general file where we can vote on it consciiMitiovisly. I lio|ii' my motion will prevail. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis >S: Clarke: I lio|ie the motion to print will pre\ail. I presume that I shall vote for the I'esolution. I am in favoi' of it in a general way, but I shan't vote for it without a careful scrutiny of it. If it contains any I'cflection upon anybody who has been in charge of the affairs of this government, I should not vote for it in this conven- tion, no matter whetbei' it was a Democrat or a Republican this reflection was cast, upon. Theretor-e. while 1 am in favor of this resolution. 1 hopi> it will be printed. Mr. Her.shfield. of Li'wis \ Clarke: My collpagU(> only I'xpi-esses (he request which I contemplated making in this matter, and that is that the sut-'gestion of the gentleman from (iallatin is very wise and ought to prevail. We ought to know what we are doing in a matter of this kind. If t conn's out in the publi.^ print anil contains censorious remai'ks on publii' authoi-ities. it would not be dignified uiion tin' jiarl ot this con- \ention to be guilty of an act of that kind. Ml'. Conrad, of tThoteau: I move to amend by referring it to a select committee with instructions lo ]ii-int after they have revised this mem- orial. The Pi-esiiient: The molidii to refer to the (^.ommittee of Ihe Whole Ihe Chair thinks takes pi'ecedence. Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: I mo\e Ibat a committee be appointed bv the Chair to which all nieinoi-jals of this character may lie I'el'iM'i'ed. CONiSTITL TIUNAL CONVENTION 1889 673 The President: The motion is not in ordi>r. The Chair will state the question. The question before the convention is that the nssolution be ordered printed and reterreil lo the Coniinilti'e of the Whole. Mr. Callawa.v. of Madison: I have not discovered in this convention much of politics; nor do I believe lliat the memorial presented by the gentleman from Silver Bow is of any political significance. The gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke said something to the effect that if we wanted to censure the President and the Secretary of the Treasury, we might have the pleasure of doing so, if 1 understood his remarks. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: No sii'. I said that if it did contain a censure upon the Secretary or the President we ought to be tender about passing it. .Mr. Callaway, of Madison: Now, Mr. President, I differ with' my friends from Lewis & Clarke, Governor Carpenter and Mr. Hershfield. This is a memorial in a very respectful tone — very respectful words, it is perhaps an implied censure: T don't know about that: but if it be that any officer of this government, I care not who he is. from Presiijent down to the lowest office, has been negligent in his duty, it is the right of this convention, representing 200,000 of the sovereigns of this nation, to say I hat we want to call their attention to what has been neglected. T have no disposition. Mr. President, to shirk the responsibility. .Now, taking into consideration a matter of such great importance to the mining industries of Montana, wh^n we have some reason to believe that the law has not been enforced, to say to ourselves in this convention we will vote "no"' because we fear tliat somebody might be offended, I do not believe it is the intention here at all: but when we know that the interest affected by the nonperformance of the law has been jeopardized, we certainly have a right as a part of the people of this country to say to these gentlemen, "We wovild ask you, and we ask to call you attention to the fact that this law has been neglected." if it be true. If the law has not been neglected, then we have simply done our duty in asking whether we have. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: Air. President, it seems to me in relation to this matter it is a mistake all the way through. What are we here for? .\re we here to recommend legislation to the United States governnient? Are we here for the purpose of memorializing Congress and about what we ihink it ought to do? f)r are we here under the Act of Congress. and by virtim of that act to form a ("onstitution for the people of this Territory? My own idea has been that the last was the purpose for which we were assembled, and I think, as I said before, this proposition has no connection with the constitution, and ought not to he incorporated here, and ought to be defeated here. Now. so far as I am concerned, I have a desire to say. and take this opportunity of saying it, rather than interrupting the roll call, that, as to my own vote, there is a portion of this proposition that T am heartily in favor of: although I don't believe; it is the proper time and place to present it, nor is it the proper way io bring it before the Congress in this memorial. There is a tariff on lead. So far as that tariff is capable of a construction favorable to the interests of Montana. I am in favor of that construction decidedly, and I wT>uld like to see that cons! ruction put upon it by the Se-cretary of the Interior: but so far as this resolution goes and further — so far as it would seek to imply a general leaning or inclination to favor a system of protection itself, I should certainly be opposed to it. As I said, it is capable of construction, and if it favors the interests of this Territory, I would Ike to have it construed in that way. Further than that, I would not like to set' this resolution gfi. So far as it implies any censure upon any of the officers of tl;e government: it seems to me, it is reflect ing upon their inaction in the matter, to say the least, and I think it would be impolitic at this time for the convention to take any action reflecting upon any portion of thp administration in power. .\s I said, it seems to me ovu- business here is to make a constitution, and to do nothing else. It is neither our right nor our privilege, nor our power, as I lake it, to do anything else? There are matters about which we may memorialize Congress when we are a state, but this resolution seems t" be ontirely out of place and improper as it stands now. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Like the gentleman from Siher Bow, I think (his resolution ought not properly to have been introduced into this body. I don't think it is the place for memorials, but I am in favor of the proposition laid down so far as it undertakes to seciu'e such a 67-4 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES foiistnu'tioii nf thf jircsciit law a;> shall previ-nt the importation of Mexi- can lead ores into llio I'nili'd Stato.s witiiout the payment of the duty prescribed by law. I am in fa\or of it to that extent, and with that explanation I pro|iose to vote fop the resolution. ] would go further, and urge it in much stronger tei'ms it' F were in a political convention or a legislative assembly or a mass meeting upon the hustings, but I don't tliink it necessai-y to go further here. In a speech which I made in this city a year ago, 1 said, "Under a law enacted by the Republican adminis- iration, and still in force, we have seen the lead ores of Mexico pour into the United States without the payment of duly. It came in absolutely free of duty. It occurred in this way: Under the present tariff laws silver and gold ores are on (tie free list and lead ores pay a cent and a half tariff or $30 per ion: but under the construction long prevailing in the freasur>- department it is held that if upon an assay of the ore value, more silver or gold llian lead are found, the shipment is classified as silver or gold ores, as the case may be. and so the lead it contains I'omes in fi'ee. I have fought against this construction before the committee and before tlie depai'tment, and desired to be heard upon the floor nf the House, but was unavoidably absent when that part of the tariff scheduh- was reaiched. Lead is a merchantable article. The ti'ue construction of the law is that the ore ought to be fairly sampled, and if it contain any amount of lead, say 30 per cent, it should pay a tariff upon that 30 per cent or upon 600 tons, which would be equivalent thereto, but this con- struction was arrested by the Reiiublican Senate. Senator Stewart of Nevada offered a resolution directing the Judiciary Committee of the Senate to inquire into and repoi't what was the proper construction of the existing law: and that committee composed of a Republican majority, with Senator Edmunds at its head, reported that if the ore contaiiu'd more silver or gold than lead that such ores should be classified as silver or gold, as the case might be, and that the lead should come in free." I am still of that same opinion, and I do not think that because the administration, so far as its liead is concerned, has changed in the mean- time, that we ougtit to be so soft and delicate in the use of language as not to be able to say just exactly what, we mean. I do not think thci-e is anything in the language of this resolution that is. so far as languag»> is concerned, such a reflection upon any gentleman connected with the administration but that lie ought to be able to bear it, and if he finds he is wi'ong to make a change as quick as possible. So far as anything else is concerned in it, as suggested by my friend from Silver Bow, as might be construed to commit me to any "ther proposition than that, so far as lead is concerned, I wish if understood that that is not involved in my vote on the question: but that it relates to the resolution in regard to lead. The President: The question is now upon the reference of the reso- lution to the Committee of the Whole — ordered to be printed first and referred to the Conunitfee of the Whole. The Chair put the question on the said motion and vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Sargent, of Siher Bow: t move the adoption of the memorial. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Ramsdall, of Missoula: 1 object to this upon the same grotuni as the gentlemen from Silver Bow and Lewis i^' Clarke. I do not wish to fake my stand as a protectionist. Now. if this memorial is construed to mean simply that it -is a memorial praying that if the tai'iff on lead shall be enforced. I am heartily in favor of it: but if it is construed (o be general in its character. 1 am opuosed to it. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: As long as we have a tariff I am in favor of this present lead law. and in favor of compelling the Secretary, if we can, by ptiblic sentiment oi' otherwis(>, to change that rviling: but I am not ceilaiidy in ta\oi' of incorporating in a resolution or memoi-ial in this conAenfion, the assertion that the |)eople of Montana or that this cnoven- lion itself, is in favor of a partioilar line of policy, so far as the tariff is concerned. Now. the exact words (d' this memorial ai'o "having ever advo- cated the protection of American industries." Now. I ask in all reason, is that right, that this I'esolution in this shape should pass a body of this kind? If it is a memorial lo the Secretary, let the gentleman or some other one pass it around, and let those who aT'e in favor of that sweeping clause, and in favor of that resolution, sign it: and those who are not, let them have the pri\ilege of not signing iL It seems lo me COXSTITLTIOAAL CONVENTION 1889 675 it has no place here: it seems to ine under our rules it should not come in here, and eertainly we should not adopt the broad principle that every man. woman and child in Montana is in fa\()r of tariff per se. I cannot understand how the gentleman from I^ewis it Clarke can vote for tliis resolution. Ft is purely political and pai'tisan. It that is stricken out and other things are stricken out, then I think it will have the unanimous vote: but I think their solution is in such shape that it should be voted 6o\\r\. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: We have met here to frame a constitu- tion, not to petition the Secretary of the Interior for any riding in his department. For that reason. I am opposed to the resolution. Mr. Hogan of Silver Ho\\ : I wovdd state, as one of the memh(n"s of tlie committee that that resolution was referred to that after reading the resolution and studying ovit it. a great many of us came to the conclusion it was no place for it: that it was more or less a political dodge. That part relating to the tariff on lead was proper and right, but that the other part was not: and we thought we would report it back with the recommendation that it be nr«t passed. For that reason. I made a motion that (he report of the committee be received and the communication placeil on file: it seems that motion fell by the wayside betwren here and the President's desk. -Mr. Craven, of Lewis & Clarke: I heartily agree with many of the views previously expressed. If does nol seem to me that the reading of the resolution the way it is. is quite proper. T hafipen to be a Repuljlican, and I am in favor of protection, but this is no place for the expression of those matters. All of the gentlemen, I think, are in favor of enforcing existing laws, and if the existing laws jirovide that lead shall not come in free, I think all would agree that those laws should be enforced until changed. I hope that the resolution will be so changed and so worded that it will refer only to the matter of lead, and not to the general system of protection, as intimated by the remarks of the gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Burleigh, of Silver Bow: There is no desire on the part of myself to worry anybody or to hurt (he feelings of any half-bred Republican or moss-back Democrat. If the gentleman who made the motion to adopt that resolution will witlidraw that nrntion. I would like to have the resolu- tion referred to such a commilfee as would dress it up in such language as woidd be acceptable. I wish to have the memorial brought to the attention of the President, and in order to do that, it should be practically unanimous, and for that reason shoulrl be couched in such language as will be entirely respectful in tone. Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: I will withdraw my motion. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention? Mr. Eaton, of Park: If in order, I move that the report be referred fo a special committee of five, to be appooinli^d by the Chair. The motion was seconded. 'I'he Chair stated the motion. Mr. Ramsdell, of Missoula: T would amimd that liy making it a com- mittee to which all memorials be referred. The President: .Ml memorials, according to the rules of the conven- tion, are to be referred to the proper connnitfees. The Chair believes the ndes so state. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park. Mr. Eaton, and a vote being taken Ihe same was declared carried. The President: The Chair will announce the committf^e in due time. Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I believe there is a special order for this morning — Section i of the article on Re\enue and Taxation. The President: The question for the consideration of the convention is Section A of the Article on Revenue and Taxation. The Clerk read Section 4 as offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Dixon, as follows: "Sec. -'i. Ditches, canals and flumes hereto- fore or hereafter constructed by any person, company or corporation, for the sale, rental, distribution oi- other beneficial use of water, shall be taxed upon the annual net proceeils of such sale, rental, distribution or use. in such manner as may be provided by law. Provided, that the use and price of such water shall at all times be sub.ject to regulations by the Board of County Commissioners, or other authority as in this constitution provided: and provided, further, that this section shall apply only to the ditches, canals and flumes of such persons, companies or corporations as shall, within such time as may be pro\-ided by law after they commence 676 PHOCFJsDIXGS AND DEBATE^? the sale, rental, rlistriliutinn ;ir u;. of \vatt>i'. iiuikc and liln in the office of the Secretary of Stale, their duly executed written consent to be sub- ject to and comply with all the terms and conditions of this section and all provisions of this constitution, and a failure of any such person, company or corporation to make and file such consent shall rcniier the ditches. canals and flumes of such person, company or ciu'piiralioii subject to taxation in the same manner as other pro|ierty without regard lo this section, so long as said person, company or corporation failfi to file such consent." Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: 1 desire to offer an ami'iidnicnl to that section. The President: The genllemaa from Silver Bow, .Mr. Iii\nn, moves to amend Section i, Proposition No. 27, as follows: The Clerk read: Proposition No. 27, amend Section 4 by striking out the words "or beneficial use of water'' in line 2 and insert instead the words "or use of water for irrigation," so as to make it i-ead, "ditches, canals and flumes heretofore or hereafter constructed by any person, company or corporation, for tlie sale, rental, distribution or \is(> of water tor irrigation" &c. The motion lo amend was seconded. Mr. Reek, of Deer Lodge; I would like to say a word in reference to the position that I have taken in regard to this Section 1 When this question was up last week I voted against the measure. beli(>ving as I did and do now, that it was inconsistent with that part of the constitu- tion already adopted: but the friends of the measure, in order to keep this before the House, stated that it was a very important iiuestion, and insisted that t was not perfectly understood, and I made a motion to reconsider. I am aware that I have made myself liable to censure by some of the members here for my liberality in the mattei', but if there is a wrong to be righted it is the duty I hat I owe, and 1 do not wish to shirk any responsibility whatever. Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: I desire to say a few words in additiim to what I have already said m opposition to this measure. Now, gentle- men on the floor have been \ery profuse in their arguments to show that irrigation is a necessary matter for us to consider in this leri'itory. That is not a debatable question: we all agree upon that; and therefore, it seems to me that there is no need of any member going on and showing up the beauties and necessities of ii'rigation. The simple question is this: In the first place, is it a matter for this constitution to decide, or this convention to decide; or, in the second place, if it is a matter for us to pass upon is it a meritorious measure? That is the only thing. \\'e will all admit that upon irrigation depends the salvation of the agricultural interests of this community. Now. then, supposing for one moment that some manufacturing corporation from the eastern Stales should come iido the Territory of Montana and say, here, we want to be exempleil except upon our net proceeds. T'lie identical same argument would be used there as is used and as has been used ii|ion this question of irrigation. Gaipital invested and manufacturing institutions will lienefif the State of Montana as much capital as inxesled in any other enterprise, and t.herefoi'(\ if the argument is good that because it is a beneficial matter fm- the State of Montana to encourage iri'igalion. Iheri^fore it is a beni'ficial thing for us to encourage manufacluring institutions and if the argu- meni, is good to exempt all of th(> property in the matter of irrigating canals, so it is in manufactuiing instil'ilions. Now. then, in reply to the argument which gentlemen starting this )iro[)osition lia\'e givt>n. that be- cause it is within the control of the Boai'd of County Connnissionei-s thai therefore no harm can accrue, I desire to ask the gentlemen this qneslion. Suppose we. in tlie Slate of INlontana. like (lie various olliei' States in the Union, notably the Slati' of Indiana — 1 say supposing this State assumed the control and regulated the price which should be chai'ged by railroad (rctmpanies fm* fai'es and freight, would that be an argument sufficient In induce you to supporl a bill Which would simply exenqd the railroad companies' propeiiy fi-om taxation except tiptm the nel jii'oceeds: and I do say. gentlemen, that that is exactly Ihe same principle which applii's here. J,et me repeat it: If the Stale of Montana had Ihe control and th(< regvdaton of the prices to be charged for transportation of freijibt and passengers in this State, would yovi be willing lo come here and by your vote say Ihal all of flie roling stock, track, rails and roadbed of that company sluudd be exempled? That is exactly what you are saying CONSTITLTIUNAL CUNVE.M'IU.X 1S89 i>7 7 hore. Now. thou, gendenion also say that, this is upon a |iai- wilh Ihc mining' industry. It is not on a pai' witli Ihp mining industry. I ,ip posed that bill be'cause I thought il was not proper in I he Constitution. It is not on a par with the mining industries for tliis reason: you eannot possibly look licneath the surface of the ground and say what the value is beneath it. but you can go along a canal or ditch from its liead clear through the country which it runs and say what ex- tent it is. how nuich water it carries, and by an examination of the books of the <'ompany. you can ascertain what it produces. Now. then, what is it that lends value to any property? It is the capacity to produce a revenue. What is it that lends value to a farm? It is its capacity to raise a certain amount of grain. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. I would like to ask him if there would be any taxable property in the county fi-om which we hail were it not for the ditches in that county? .Mr. Hartman, of Gallatin: I will answer that question. In answer to the question. I desire to say this: In the first place, the agricultural interests of the County of Gallatin are almost its exclusive interest except coal mines, and I do say tliis. that without iri'igation there would not be one-tenth of the grain raised in that \alle\- that there can be w"ith irrig-a- tion: but I say this. Mr. President, that every single industry which will be a paying industry will stand uiion its own legs, and if it does not it is not a proper industry. If you have got to coddle and fondle and caress these great capitalists in order to get them to come out here anri invest their money in these enterprises, then I pretand to say that we don't want these enterprises, for home caiiital will produce them: home capital will be invested in these enterprises just as fast as the demands of the people call for it. \\'e know that the old theory of the investment of money in any business is the demand for it.. A man does not go out here on the broad prairies ami establish a mercantile establishment. Why? Because there is no demand for it. .\ man does not go to work in a barren country where the soil is not one-half inch deep and establish ditches, because if he did he would not be able to raise anything on an entirely barren soil, but it is the arid plain, where we have good soil, which is too dry. that irrigation is called into play. Now. I desire to say that I have given this matter considerable stuly since it was brought up. and some before, and I have only been able to find one State that has touched upon tliis nia.tter in its constitution, and that is the State of Colorado. I desire you gentlemen to bear with me one nwment while I read a part of the constitution of Colorado in reference lo this question: "Ditches, canals and flumes, owned and used by indi\iduals and corporations for irrigating lands owned by such individuals or corporations, or the individtial mem- bers thereof, sjiall not be separately taxed so long as they shall be owm^d and used exclusi\ely for such imrpose.'' That is all that I have been able to find that even smacks of the pi'oposition which a^^ntlemen argue here. We are taking a. new departure. \N'e are saying by our view's in this constitution Ihat it is one of the fundamental pi-inciples of the State of Montana, that a cei'fain class or a certain occupation shall have a prefer- en<'e extended to it over all others. Are gentlemen ready to admit that that is a kind of principle to which they adhere in this convention, which obtains with the inemliers of this convention? I pretend to say that it is not the duty of this con\ention to say that any man. any occupation, any industry shall have one prefei'enee over another. There is but one thing to do. and that is to put all classes, all men, all industriet% upon the same plane, and whenever you assume to do otherwise you are deriding the principles of Republican form of government — ecfual burdens and equal taxation for all. Mr. Cooper, of (iallatin: Is it not the object of a protective tariff to foster the industries of the United States? Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: It is the object of the protective tariff to foster all of the industries of the United Slates, and by its indirect appli- cation, every single one of the ogricultural interests of the United States are fostered. But T do not think gentlemen are so anxious about this bill that they would insert a political dociunent into it. Now. then, the local papers of this place, for what reason I am not prepared to say. have taken up the cudgel for the support of this bill. One of the lo^-al papers says: "In the earlier history of irrigation, both in California and Colorado, irrigation corporations did come into existence, but the adoption of wise laws subsequently has relieved the people from that evil." Do you pretend (378 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES to say that pvpii a wise law. ov any law, could have any cflVct in the face of the bill which is introduced here. Are legislators superior to the con- stitution? If so, the ai'sumcut is {?ood; if not. it is simply falsi-. Now, Mr. President, my indi\ idual interests rest wholly wilh the fostecins of agiricultural interests. Do away with the asricultui-al inlcrcsts of our county, anrl I iniyht as well close up my law office and ^o away from there. And I want to say. furthcrnioi'i'. that I have just I'ctiu'ued from my own homo, and thei-e I met lumihers of men. and every sinj-dc one of Iheni \oluritarily sairl, "We do not want tlo' iiTi;:ntion bill to jiass." .Now. I ilo not want lo say — I dislike very much In differ with my colliMgucs — Ihey are both older men than T am. ami mcu foi- whom I rnlertain the sinccrcst respect — but I do pretend In .•-ay, irtMillemen. that Ihese persons came to me voluntarily — and we nie tlie gi'eatest agricultural county in this territory — and wthout a dissenting voice Ihey enter their protest against the passage of this bill. 1 hope that gentlemen who come from other counties^ w'ho come from mining counties, will considei- this as a fact. I do not know at this time that I have anything further to say on this proposition. I will say in justice lo the papers here that one of them, "The Independent."' has taken ttie view that I have staterl: the other two ha\e taken lhi» other bill. '■Ii'. Middleton. of Custer: It is a little remarkable why my young frii'nd from (iallatin should become so warm on this subject. He starts out by citing a comparison of this kind of companies, specially for Uie fAirijose of irrigating these arid lands, with mereantile companies. .\ow, I ha\e known many inslitutions where cities and towns Innc held out inducements to large manufacturing or mercantile companie.< by way of tail- bonuses to eslal)lisli a business within the city or town. .Mr. Hartman. of Gallatin: Is that a good principle lo incorporate in the conslitution? Mr. Middleton of Custer: I have known, so far as the matter of railroads is conceirned that the Congress of the United States nrade a gi'ant lo the Northern Pacific Railroad comli)any providing that its right of rail and road-bed should be exempt from taxation in the territories. What was the purpose of that? The purpose and object was if it had any. was to hold out an inducement to the company to go ahead and con- struct a road there. What for? In order that this we.stern country Height be opened up, in order that it might become populated; in order that these lands might bei settled upon and farmed. When we get out here, we find that most of the lands without an artificial means of ir- rigation are practically arid and in order that we may axail ourselves of the inherent propertied of those lands, which with water are produc- tive, it seems to me it would be a part of wisdom to hold out any and every inducenient that we can, to place these lands in such a conditiivn that Ihey will render crops. It is conceded by Ihe gentleman himself — conceded on all sides — that Ihe majority of Ihe lands, in fact nearly all of them that are known as agricultui'al lands in the tr'rritory. are arid lands. Without irrigation they are practically for the purposes of agri- culture worthless. Now the gentlen»n says to us that he has talked with many of the people from his coimly, and they say they are not in tavor of this proposition being inserted into Ihe conslitulion. I helie\-e that they can bi> inserted in this way. It is a notorious lad that (ialhiliu County is one of the oldest agricultural countipB in Ihe territory. 'I'lie gentleman admits himself that tlii^ eidire taxable properly of that county today would not he one-lenlh of what il is. were it not for Ihe fact of ii'cifiat ion. Now, Ihe probahililii s are Ihal Ihese Very nii'n witli whom he talked appreciated the fact Ihal Ihey hn^e an enormous anioimt of mfiney employed in the mailer of ditches that ai'e already constructed thdre: that tiiey have sufficieni conslnuded, pertiaps to irrigate those lands that are susceptible nt iriit;;ilioii ni Ihe county. Those ditches have crist an enormous anmuii! ol nmnev. At Ihe pi-esent linii' Ihey are being taxed an enormous amount of money, ami these individuals undoubteilly woulii hate to see these comjianies and corpoi'ations that are thefe now oxemiil from taxation. \iu\ that condilion of affairs exists in many of the counties in the Teri'iloi-y. Is it not a fact that in Dawson. Yellow- stone and Cusler. and all of the northern tier of counties (hrougli. without this meTins it( irrigation, or some inducement being held (uU — and this is hut a small inducement, wo cannol expect that those lands can be settled up or populaled for years and years to come? In the Yellow- stone valley it is not practicably for an individual, or for four or five CO.Ns^nTLTlU.XAL CU.WE.MlDN I8S9 079 individuals, owning farms tlu-i-i' to aina>>: money ennufrh to lake a I'itcli out of the Yelliiwstone Riv- creased gain in the way of production. Now- [ do not see any reason oii earth whv the gentleman from Gallatin should take the position he has. He undertakes to assunie here, that all manner and kinds of industries ami enterprises should stand on their own ledge. Now Mr. President that would be a very good free trade speech to come from my young Republican friend, and I do not quite see the consistency in his argument. It is a notorious fact that the policy of the Republican party has been to foster certain industries in that kind of way. But this is not for the purpose of fostering an industry. It is for the purpose of inducing capital to come into an industry that will benefit the people at large. Any industry that by fostering, can be shown to me to be a benefit to the people of the community, and would benetfit all the people at large, I would favor a reasonable fostering of that industry: and when it is necessary for these inducements to be held out. it seems to mi' we should hold them out. be- cause thesei lands will not be valuable at any lime until they are irrigated. The gentleman from Cascade as.serted here the other day that these local companies would become enormous extensive corporations, welalthy. and all that sort of thing. There is not any indication of that, so far as known in this territory as yet. and 1 think my friend from (4allatin will agree with n>e that there is not any ilitch Company in his own county that is raaiking any enormous amount of money, although they have bden estab- lished there for years and years. It seems to me that this proposition is unanswerable, and although it is in the nature of legislation, it is that character of legislation that ought lo have a degrele of permanence. Probably the legislature would enact that kind of an exemption; possibly the next one succeeding it would turn annmd and repeal it. These matters of enormous ditchete or improvements in irrigation, when once constructed remain permanent, and the people who would attempt to hold out induce- ments, should have reason to believe that these inducements would ba\e at least somel degree of permanency. For that reason I am in favor of incorporating it into the constitution, and I do not see that it can possibly do any harm, but do believe that it will be such an inducement as will do a large amount of good. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: When propositions of this kind are raised they require! some thought and some study. Since this matter has come up i have given it some little thought, and there are one or two points that I think have not been touched upon yet. by anybody I have heard speak on this mattea* in convention. I w-ant to say as a preliminary statement, that so far as the exemption of mines fiom taxation is conecrned, I think there is hardly any parallel. In fact we deny that there is any such thing as exemption of mines from taxation, but wer assert that the manner of taxing mines has only been provided for. We assert that mines are taxed on the surface ground, and that the improvements and all matters pertaining to thelm are taxed the same as any other property. Now in rela- tion to this matter I was inclined to go with the majority of men who are familiar with the agricultural section, and I am so inclined to go now. I see there seems to be a division. Still the impression I get is that the majority of the people from the agricultural counties — the people who are familiar with this irrigation question — are inclined to go against the adoption of this resolution, and in thinking the matter over, the i)oint that occurred to me was this, is not this a matter that is wholly in I be provisions of the County Connnissioners? Will not the County (:ommis sionei-s, sitting as a board of equalization, act upon this matter when it is presented to liiem? If a ditch that cost a hundred thousand dollars is not 680 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Uftually worth ten Ihousand dollars, is it not llie ijrovince of tho Board of County Commissioners to say that tliat property sliall not be taxed for iruire than it is woilh? And if so, what is the necessity ol this proposition And that is the point tluil has delerniined my views and given me a decided view upon this side of the (juestion. Tlie Board of County Commissioners sitting as a board of equalization have this matter altogether in their hands, and if the money that, is spent in the eoustruetion of a ditch is not paying money and the ditch is not worth the monf-y expended on it, is it not usual for them, ami do they not usually provide foi' an equalization (d' the t,ax rate"? Tl seems In iiie 1 am right in that position. If not, I woidd like to be corrected. .Mr. Rickards, of Silvei- Bow: We ha^e already heard from several members on this floor about the proposition now tor consiileration. I be- lieve that every one of us have made up our minds how to vote, and I believe that we are ready to \ote. Believing that, I call for the previous question. Mr. Bickford. ot Missoula: I \Minld like to ask the gentleman not to C(all his previous question for just abovd a minute ajid a half. 1 do not want to speak longer than that. .Mr. Rickards, of i?ilver Bow: T do not wish to be arbitrary, but I believe that if Mr. Bickfoi-d be allowed to speak someone will want to reply to him. Mr. Eaton, of I^ark: If the call for the previous question is withdrawn for a minute and a half at the request of the gentleman from Missoula, I hope it will also be withdrawn for a minute and a half at my i-equest. The Chair put the question on the previous question, called for by .Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow,, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The question now is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silvelr Bow which will be reail by the Clerk for inforima- tion. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 4 by .striking out the words "Or other beneficial use of the water" in line 2 and insert "Or use of water for irrigation"; so as to make it read "ditches, canals and flumes heretofore or hereafter con- sti-ucted by any person, company, or corporation, for the sale, rentjal, and distribution or use of water called irrigation" etc. The Chair put tne question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, and a division h(>ing called for the same was declared lost by a vote of 27 in the affirniative t" 2<.) in the negati\e. 'I'he President: The (jueslion now is upon the adoption of Section 4. Mr. Callaway of Madison called tor Ihe ayes and na\s. The Presideint: The Chair desires to state that after the roll call has once begim it cannot be interrupted. The Chair indulged some gentlenian this morning, but will not do so again. The Clerk called the roll. The ^ote stood as follows: .\yes: Burleigli. Bickford, Carpmiter, Cooper, Conrad, Dixon. nnedy, Knippenl)erg, I.oud. Maginnis,, Reek, Robinson, Rotwilt, Rickards, Sargent, Stapleton, Toole, .1. R., Warren, Watson, Witter, Mr. Pi'esident — 40. Paired: Haskdll and Parberry. .\bsent: Cardwell, Durfee. Craves. .Iii\, Kanouse. .Mavger. Mutli. Schmidt, Webster, Winston.— 10. The Chair announced the \(ite ;i:id declared Section 1 of I'rojiosilion No. 27 lost. Mr. Maginnis of Ci'wis \ Clarke: 1 move to reconsider the vole by which the Section was lost, and move to lay that motion on the tal)le. The motion was seconded. Tlie Chair put the queslion on the sai(i motion of (he gentleman from Lewis and Clarke, Mr. Maginius and a \oi<\ being taken, was declared car- ried, and the motion was considered laid on the table. Mr. Burlei-h of Cuslei': I would like to know what comlilion this leaves this proposition in. CONSTITUTIO.NAI, CONVENTION 1889 681 The I'l'osidi'iit : Thi' original iiroposition has already hi'i'u miIoU mikih wihli tln> cxci'iituiu (if this si'cddii. and adupted. Mr. Hickniaii id' Xhidisnn: I presume Ihe Coniinittee nii Ri'\isioii will ha\e the propdi' authority U< rcnumlier the propositions. ^fI■. President : Yes, sir. Mr. Goddaid of Yellowstone: I move the Convention resolve itself into the Cninmittee of the Wlinjc for the consideratinn of No. 24. .-\rtirle on State, County and Town org'artization. The nnfitiou was seronded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Eaton of Park: Is there a mniion hefore the oonventinn at preseht'' Tlio President: Yes, sir. Mr. Eaton of Park: If the cunxenlinii wdl iiear with me I would like to present one matter: it is this. As I understand the rules adopted by the convention provide tliat after each article has been adopted and referreil Id the committee on revision of phraseology and adjustment., it then is to be depositi'd with the secrelarj- of the territory as corrected. Is that cor- rect? The President: The Chair presumes they would not be deposited until after the constitution is voted upon as a whole. Mr. Eaton of Park: What I am trying' to arrive at is this: it occurs to me that after ea.ch article has passed through all these stages that it ought to be printed and laid on the tables of the mi^mbers before its final adoption. With all due respect to the committee of revision, phraseolog>- and ad.just- nlent. they are liable to error. For instance it may be possible to get some section in twice. While I recognize the fact I am sittinc by unanimous consent, I feel as though we weire making has.te too rapidly when we act upon the final adoption in this way. Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: I was going to suggest, Mr. Presi- dent, if the gentleman from Yellowstone will withdraw his m.intion that here is a proposition No. 32 that we might take up and pass in the time) remain- ing. -Mr. Ooddard of Yellowstone: I withdraw my motion. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clai'ke: I move that the con\ention then consider Proposition No. 32 in convention. 'I'he motion was seconded. The President: It is mo\ed and seconded that the convention now consider bill No. 32 on "Military Reservations." 'Phe Chair put the motion of the gentleman from Lewis and Clarke. Mr. -Maginnis and a vote being taken the same was declareld carried. The President: The Clerk will read the article. The Clerk read as follow-;; Proposition No. 32. Military Reservations, .\ugust 3 — Introduced liy ■Judiciary Committee — W. \\'. Dixon, Chaii'man. (General PMle No. 30. Article. "Section 1. .Authority is hei'eby granted to and acknowledged in the Ifnited States to (>xercise exclusive legislation as approved by the Constitution of the United States, over the military reservations of Fort Assinniboine, Fort Custer, Foi-t Keogh, l-"ort Maginnis, Fort Missoula, and Fort Shaw, as now elstablished by law, so long as said places remain Military Reservations, to the same extent and with the same effect, as if said reser- vations had been purchased by the United States liy consent of the Le.'uisla- tive .\ssi'mbly of the Slate id' Montana, and the Legislative Assembly is authorized and directed to enact any law nelcessary or proper to give effect to this article, PRC)VIDED, That there be and is hereliy reserved to the State the right to serve all legal process of the! State both civil and criminal upon persons and property found within any of said reser\ ations in all cases where the United States has not exclusive jurisdiction." Mr. Haskell of Dawson: I move to inseirt after the words "Missoula" in line 3 the words "Fort Buford." Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: Is llieii- a pcu-lion id' that reserva- tion in this territory? Mr. Haskell of Dawson: One half of it. Ml'. Kennedy, of Missoula: It seems to me that under rule 2(') this mat- ter will have, to be referred to the committee of the wliole. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: We nan suspend the rules. The President: It is understood that the i-ules are suspended. The Chair inferred that the geiiitlemen all understood that these matters had to be considered with the committee of the whole. t>82 PROCEEDI.\(,iS AM) DEBATES Mr. Biekt'onJ of Missoula: In order lliat llioro may he, no doubt al)out il lliai tho rules are suspended I nKJvel thai this article No. 32 be eonsidercd in the convention as the t'inial consideration. Ttie motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on Ihe said motion of the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Hickford. and a vote bi'in^ taken the same was declared car- ried. The President: An amendment has lieen offered by tliel gentleman from Dawson, to amend by inserting "l-'ort Buford." The question is raised as to wliefher any portion nf the reservation is in Montana Tf>rritory. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: Quite a porlicju of it. I dn nut know that one-half is in the territory of Montana. It lies but a short distance below the mouth of the Yellowstone River. We once had la. matter of jurisdiction come up in the Court of Yankton, and it was there ascertained that quite a portion of the military reservation was in Montana. Mr. Myers of Yellinvstone: As these military reservations should all be named, and if my memory serves me! right there is a reservation on the Custer battlefield, and a monument erected there, I would suggest we strike out the wurd "the" on line two, and insert "all military reservations." and strike! out all after the word "reservations." It. would then read "Of all mlilitary reservations now estalilished by law" eie. It seems to me we would m'ake no mistake about it if we did that, and I make the most of it. The President: Will Ihe gentleman from ^wson accept the amend- ment. ^^ Mr. Haskell of Dawson: My amendment simply is as to line three. This makeis another amendment of a general bill. The President: 'The amendment is that Fort Buford be inserted. The Chair put ttie question on said molion. and a vote being taken the same was declai'ed lost. The President: The Chair is now waiting tor the amr-ndment of the gentleman from Yellowstone. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: I would slate that this is in accord- ance with the I'equest of the seci-etary of war, transmitted by the Com- mander of the depai'lmehd.. and they miay ha\e some reason for it, or they may propose to aholisli, which I hope they will, all these unnecessary por- tions of these ntilitai'y reservations which are all too large. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: f would say that the fort is williin a ntile of the boundary line of thel territory of Montana. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: The reservations nauK^I in the article are those mentioned by Ihe Commander of the department, and as I understand forwarded by the secretary of war. These are the reservations as I under- stand it that the United States wants included in that article. Now there is no advantage whatever,, on the contrary it would be perhaps a detriment to the state to give up its jurisdiction over any of thesc^ military reserva- tions, and I am not in favor of conceding the power over them to the United States any further than we can help. That is the reason why these first wei'e meintioned specially, because they were m(>ntioniiil s|)ecifically in the communication fi-om tieneral Hugar. I am not in fa\or of giving up the aulhoi'ily of the sta.te over these military reservations furlher than the government lequires and requests, and I am in favor of passing this just as thri.y ha\e given it. Mr. Maginnis of Uewis and Clarke: The authorities of Ihe government certainly must have had some r(>ason for naming these mililary reserva- tions in' this way, and I am in favor of the adoption of the rei)ort of (In- Committee. Mr. Myelrs, of Yellowstone: T will withdraw my motion. Mr. Hartman of (iallatin: I move the adoption of the article. The ayes and nays were demanded. The Presiiient: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be en- tered on Ihe journal. Mi-. Eaton of Park: Ts this n])on Ihe final passage (d' llie nrlicie? Mr. Hartman of Ciallatin: I move lo put (he bill on its final passage-. The miotion was seconded. The Chair put the question on (he said molion of the genlleman fi'om (i'allalin. and a vote being laken the samiV was declared carried CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1880 683 The President: The vote now will he upon the final disposition ol' Proposition No. 32. The aves and navs will lie entered on the journal. The clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes:. Aiken. Bickford. Brazlet first general election provideld for by this Constitution there shall be elected in each county three County Commissioners. The one receiving the highest number of votes shall hold his office until the genelral election in 1800. thi' one receiving the next highest numtoer of votes shall Indd his offico until the general election in 1804. and thel one receiving the lowest numlier of votes shall hold his office until the general election of 1892 and each shall hold office imtil his successor is elected and qualified. A vacancy in the. Board of County Commissioners shall be filled by appointment of the (iov- ernoor." Mr. Luce of (Jallatin: I mrivi- that Sectinn 10 lie adopted as amended. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins of Cascade: The gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Rickards. had a motion pending last evening. The Chairman: His amendment was lost the Chair understood. Mr. Rickards proposed an amendment to Section 9. which was carried, but the amendment to Section 10 as I imderstand it was lost. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move that Section 9 be stricken out. The Chairman: The gentleman from Gallatin proposed an amendment to Section 10 which was seconded. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: My motion was to adopt Sectinn 10. t>8i l'H()(;EEI)I.\(iS A.ND DEBATES Mr. CarpiMit.iM' of l.plwis and Clarki-: I oI'Iit LIu' ronlldwing- as a sub- stitute for Section 10. Tlie Ghaii'inau: The Kontlenian from Lewis anil C.larki' offei-s the fol- lownnfr as a substitute for Seel ion 10. "In each County tlirre shall he eldet^d three County Cdinmissioners whose terms of offiee shall he foui' years. A \acaney in the Bdard of County Commissioners shall be filleil by appoint- ment by the District Judge in the District in which the vacancy occurs. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Carpenter of Lewis and Clarke: That involves striking out Section 9. If that amiendmeln't is \oted Section 9 should be stricken out. That leaves tlie term of the County (jommissioners just as it is, and the Board the same: and if there is an\ thing to be said in regard to the terms of office that would properly come in Sin-tion 11, with all County officers. Thel Chair iiut the question on the motion* of the gentleman from Lewis and Clarke. Mr. Carpenter, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Ml'. Riekards of Silver Bow: Nnw. .Mr. Cliairman, I move to strike out Section 9. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Riekards, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 would like to hear the substitute read aguin. Thi' Clerk read thei substitute of the gentleman from Lewis and Clarke iMr. Carpenter' which was adopted, for the information of the gentlenian. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Section 11. The Clerk read Section 11 as follows: "Sec. 11. Theire shall be elected in each countythe following officers: One County Clerk, who shall be Clerk of the Board of County Commission- ers, and ex-officio recorder of deeds: one Sliei'iff: one Treasui'er. who shall be collector of taxes: one County Supeirintcnilent of Schools: one County Surveyor: one Assessor; one Coroner: one l^ublic Administrator. Persons elected to the different offices named in this section shall hold their re- spective offices for the term of two years: except that the covuity officers elected at the first general elrrlion provided for by this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the gtMieral election in 1892, and until their succes- sors are elected and qualified. Vacancies in all county, township and pre- cinct offices, except that of county Commissionei-s, shall bet filled by ap- pointment by the Board of County Commissioners, and the apiMiintee shall iiolcl office until the next general election," Mr, Warren of Silver Bow^: I have an amendment. Mr. Goddard of Yellowsitone: I introduced a Proposition early in the Session which I believe was numbered No, ti, and before we proceed further T will ask the Clerk to read that Proposition for the consideration of the Committee, Thel Chairman: The gentleman from Siher Bow. Mr. Warrni. has (d- lered the following amendment to Section 11: "Strike out all section after the word "years" in Hue li to and including the word "qualified" in line K, and insert as follows: "ProNided lluU all county and township officers now holding offices under the! Teiritory of Montana, or any coiuUy or township of said Territoi'y. are in reby declared to be (d'ficersi in the respective counties and towliships of the Stale of Montana until the general election for Coiiiressniien in the year 1890. ex- cept the office of Pi'obate .fudge which is abolished, and County ConVmis- sloners, who shall scrxc the 'erms Cor w'hich thty ha\e bi'en elected'." Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. Riekards of Silver Bow: \\'iA\. I am in faxoi' of what the mover of Ibis motion evidently aims at, yet it seems to me that tlu> wording of it is not quite clear in one particular. Tf I heard the reading corr(>ctly, it specifies that those holding (dTice shall hold (d'fice luitil the next general election. Now doesn't th(> mover nvan uidil their successors are eMcted and qualified? Mr. Carpenter of Lewis and Clarke: .\s theri' is a question raised as to the duration of these officers I would offei- the following amendment, which I think will cover it in a few words. The Chairman: The gontleman fi'om T^ewis and Clarke. Mr. Carpenter, olfei's the following amendment to Section II: After the word "years" in CONSTFTUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 685 liiu' 0 strike nut all in lines O and 7 up Id and including the words "1892" and insert "All county and townsiiiij officers in office at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, excelpt Probate Judges, shall hold their re- spective offices until the expiration of the time for which they were elected. ■ Mr. Warren of Silver lUiw. I will accept thai amendment. The Chairman: The gelntlenian a<'cepts the amendment of the gentle- man from Lewis and Clarke, which is now the question before the Commit- tee. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I hope that this que.stion will not come up in an article to the Constitution, for our Constitution will be printed as a beginning of eveli'y law book for years to come, probably, and it seente to me that we should not drag in the offices of the Territory of Montana so conspicuously. If we are to put Ibis in any place in our Constitution, let us put it in the Ordinance, so that when the objects fur which the ordin- ance is created shall have been carried out, the ordinance can be dropped. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I think myself that the proposition in- volved here is a good one. but I think that I understand, too, the object and purpose of the members in putting this off as far as possible in order that it may be delfeated. Now I introduced a resolution early in this session, which had for its object the same thing as the resolution offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow, except that it was worded in a little different way. I am in hearty support of the proposition as amended by the gentle- man from Lewis and Clarke, and hope it will be inserted in the Constitu- tion, and in this provision, and I hope that this Convention will not take chances in failing to insert it in this Section here. Now, so far as the meas- ure is concerned it is a just one, and it matters not whether the officer is a republican or demo^^rat, it is an equitable and just provision which ought to be incorjjorated in this Constitution, inasmuch as the county officers and precinct officers for the Territory were elected for two yeai-s last fall, and inasmuch as they have spent their money to be elected. Inasmuch as the people have chosen them as their choice for the offices respectively which they are filling. All these considerations are in favor of the adop- tion of this proposition. It might beJ urged, and undoubtedly will be urged that the proposition should not prevail, that the officers should not hold their terms of office until 1890 for the reason that it will necessitate another election. Anticipating that argument I ■will say that in 1890 it will be neces- sary to hold an election for the election of a Congressman. The expense will be very slight. Certainly the expense will be no more for that election than it wiil be if the election were held this fall. Another good relason for this proposition is this. We are about entering upon a new system of balloting in this Territory called the Australian system, which is a very complicated system, ^^■d have never had any experience in that respect. .\iiother thing we have adopted the system of registration of the voters. All these niatters Will tend to complicate the election now before us, and I am in favor of elliminating County politics so far as may be from this election. It is the first election to be held in the State of Montiana. and I am in favor of eliminatin.s everything of a factional nature, everything of local interest, and allowing this new system of voting to go upon its naerits, so that it may be thoroughly te^sted without the swapping and trafficing in votes which is liable (o take place if County officers are mixed up in this election. Now I happen to know that a great many of the members of this convention ai'e pledged to the support of a proposition of this character. I happein to know some of the gentlemen who have pledged themselves to support it. I have learned since this convention has been in session that some of those gentlemen regard the ties which bind thelm to their party and their caucus more sacredly than they do their vows. I njay be misinformed upon this proposition, but I say it has come to my knowledge that some< of the gentlemen who have pledged themselves to their constituents before election, and have promised them since election that they would stand on this proposition, are wavering in this matter, and now claim they are bound by their caucus. .Ml I would have to say to that kind of man is just thisv that if his political convictions are stronger than his convictions of right, are stronger than his promises and his fidelity to his constituents, then let him vote as he chooses. But I wish to serve notice upon those gentlelmen that if they violate the promises which they made their cons.fituents, that I will undertake before this debate closes to 680 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES arraign them in such a maniitT thai I heir constituents may know of their conduct, and may read the re'cords as to their vote here. A memBier: Name the men. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: No, I will not name them. Some of the men who have made these pledges are, friends of mine, and I would say all of them for that matter, and for that reason I do not care t« mention the names. It may be that those gentlemen will fall into line for all I know, and if thely do it will be better that they did not know to whom I refer when I make this remark. Suffice it to say that this proposition is a proposition which has merit, and which should be supported by every member of this convention regardless of political convictions. It is a matter of justice to the men who are now in the offices. It is a matter of pure justice to the constituency that elects them, and so far as I am concerned I shall support the proposition. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I believe we have a preamble! to our con- stitution that we have adopted, that we are grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, and that we have adopted this constitution in accordance with thd Enabling Act: and the Enabling Act provides that this convention may provide for the election of State officers by an oordinance. Now I agree with the gentleman from Cascade ttiat this matter does not belong in this bill. 1 agree with the gentleman from Yellowstone County upon (his prop- osition, but I think we had better follow out the last part at least of our preamble. If we are doing this aiccording to the Enabling Act we had bet- ter put this provision in an ordinance. Mr. Eaton of Park: I would like to call the attetition of the gentleman who last spoke to a different understanding that I have of this proposition as regards the Enabling Act. I do not know what the legal aspect may be. but as I understand the reading of this it provides that the constitutional convention mlay by ordinance provide! for the election of officers for full state government. Now what is proposed here is not the election but the retention of officers alread elecled. It seems to me to be a different prop- ostion, I am asking simply for information now. but it seems tome that the Enabling Act refers to the election of officers, and not to the retention of those officers already in office. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: I would like to have the report of the judiciary comniiftpe on this proposition read. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Is an antendment in order? The Chairman: Yes, sir. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I wish to say to the gentleman t.his. that I suppose that we are considering Section M which provides for the election of officers. Now if those officers mentioned in that section are a part of those which we are to provide for in accordance with this Enabling .Act. it means officers that are to start and govern in full force, and it therefore does not belong in here, but belongs in an ordinance. Of course they might l)ut in here that they may retain them in office, and that would be another thing entirely. But we are not considelring the proposition of whether we should elect officers, and if Ihaf is so I do not think it, is in accordance with the Enabling Act. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I withdraw my amendment. The Clerk read the report of the judiciary committee on fliei proposition. as called for by Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke, as follows: Resolution by Browne. "Resolved that the committee on judiciary of this convention be instructed to considei' and re^port whether the Enabling Act of Congress provdies for the general election lo hei held before admis- sion to fill all offices both st.ate and county elected by the Constitution." Report of judiciary committee: Mr. President: Your committee on ju(hciary to whom was referred res- olution herewilli ii'tui'ned have directed me lo repoi'l Ihat Ihey have ex- at.iined the question referi'ed to them and are of tlie opinion (hat the En aiding .Act of Congress provides for the general election before aiimission to fill all the offices both state and county provided for by (he constitu- tion, but (ha( such proxision is not n'.aiidatory inid thai (his con\en(ion has a right and power in its discretion to provide that all or any such district or covmty (dficers jirovided for by the constitutiim shall be elecled at such time and for such terms as may be prescribed or provided (lia( any dis- trict or county officers now holding office tmder the laws ni ihr lerrilmy CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 687 may runliuuo in dfl'iee unilcr Ihe fonstilution for such lime as may be prescribed. Your contmitLee are of tlie opinion that the whole matter is within the power of the convention to regulate. (Signed). \V. W. Dixon, Chairman. -Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: That, in our \ iew of it. belongs as a pro- ^ ision by this amendment of tlie gentleman from Silver Bow County. It is pro- \ided in the fori' iiarts of Section 2'i of the Enablinp- Act that the constitu- tional convention may by onlinance providi' tor the election of officers for full state government. includiiiK. etc. Now then, part of the officers for full state government, according to this Enabling Act are to be provided for by onlinance. Th(> connnittee on ordinance reported this onlinance back to this ciuuention and asked the question whether or nut these county officers should lie electeid at this election or what action should be taken upon them, and the committee left that to the convention without making any recom- mendation one way or the other. Then that should come up in the con- vention on the report of the Committee on Ordinanees. It was put to a vote, a few days ago on the last part of the file, to be one of the last things to be considered by the convention. The objection that I have to its being considered now. is. that it is out of place, and does not belong to the con- stitution, as would be the case if it was provided as proposed by this amend- ment. That is the reason I object to it going in here. Mr. Hartman of Giallatin: I should like to ask the gentleman who has just taken his seat if this is the proper place for it, or in your report why you i.iiil not make it a part of the report nf yom" conunittec. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I will answer the gentleman that when we come to that iiart of it. instead of making a majority report and a minority relixirt, after suggestions of a distinguished mennber of the com- mittee. I held that back without making any recomniendation on it, for the convention to take such action when eonsideiing the report as it saw fit. That was the reason assigned. Instead of making the minority report and a majority report, we made a re/port without any reconnnendation what- ever. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I call for the reading of the report that is on file in connection with proposition No. 2i. The Chairman: The resolution is resolution No. C, read and refeirred to the committee on city, county and tov\Ti organization on July 9th. Reported back withoout any recommendation and placed on file for consideration with main report of the committee. The reiport reads a.s follo^^'s: "All county and precinct officers who may be in office at the time of the adop- tion of this constitution shall hold their respective offices for the full term for which they nwy have beien elected and until such time as their suc- cessors may be elected and qualified in accordance with the provision of this constitution and the laws now in force; and the official bonds of all such officers shall continue in full force and effect as if this constitution had not been adopted. Mr. Burlftlgh of Custer: I happened to be present when the Comrnittee on Ordinance met I tliink the tbii-d time and made their report: and the statement made by my friend Mr. Robinson, the gentleman from Deer Lodge Ounty is as I recollect precisely corn'ct, and the reasons he as- signed are the reasons which influenced the committee in sending it back without a recomniendation. Now, in regard to this amendment offered, I am greatly in favor of it and shall support it, and I shall do so for this reason, that I believe it to be just; I believe it to be just to the parties whom it affects: but whether it may be a question to be provided for by or3inance or to go into the constitution, there! may be some difference of opinion. I cannot be accused of acting from any political motive, for the reason that nearly all of the county officers from our cuonty belong to the democratic party. I never have belonged to it, and unless there/ is some great change in the political m.oral status in my mind I do not think I ever shall. 'Laughter I have lived to that time of life where, if all my political acts have been sinful transgressions, T believe it is now too late to repent. Now. these officers went into the election in good faith and be- lieved they w-ere elected for two years, and unless there is a great public necessity for putting them out I think it is morally wrong to do it. Our shi^riff is a democrat: our county clerk is a democrat: our probate judge is a democrat — he seems to be fated anyhow, and there is no help for him — and our assessor is a democrat: and every other county officer almost is a democrat. I hold a position there. I am not a democrat but it is not on that account that I support the measure. T think it is right that these t»8 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES men should romaiii llieri' dining' their term of office, and I Ihiiik it is proper. Now, while there may be some technical question in leganl to whether this should go into a constitution or go into the ordinance. I do not be- lieve that that should control the principle here. I feel a good deal like, and I am persuaded a good deal by a remark that I once heard an eminent old judge make. Judge Greler, in regard to determining close questions. A friend of his said to him, "Judge, I suppose you gentlemen who preside on the Supreme Court bench of the United States never have any question on regard to what is right?" "Oli, frequently, frequently," said he. "Well." said his friend, "but how do you determine them?" "Well," said he,, "after examining the law and all the surrounding circumstances if I ani; still in doubt I appeal to the chancery of my owm heart and I am scarcely ever miistaken in my judgment." Now I think every man here should look at the question in all its bearings, and just imagine himself in the same situa- tion: and where there is no harm to be done in the State, I think there ought to be no question in determining it, 'aside from political consitlera- tion, that these men should be entitidd to hold their offices during the resi- due of their term. Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: I do not desire lo advance any arguments on this subject. In fact I do not think the arguments of any of the speakers, nor even the logic of a Webster can change a single man's conviction on this matter. In fact, I do not think even th<' honest conviction and the venerable aspect of my aged friend who has just taken liis seat can change our views. Personally I have been in favor of this proposition, but I doubt the expediency of it, and I shall ^•ote against it, and when it is considered that I am losing the office of justice of the peace I think it will be some extenualion of my action, and 1 hope the scattering remarks of the gentleman from Yellowstone will lose their force. (Laughter and ap- plause.) Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman. I am unable to see why section 24 of the Enabling Act shoukl make any difference in our action on this question. If this amendmrnt prevails I cannot see how sec- tion 2/1 of the Enabling Act has anything (0 do with it. If the amendment prevails these officers will be pro\ided for by the constitution itself. They will not be up for election this tall: there will be no county officers elected this fall. The ordinance would be in use if the amendment did not prevail. and if the county officers were to be elected then perhaps the ordinance should state in their case as in all other cases the manner of the election, but as long as they are not to be elected it seems Ihia should be the proper place for it, and any motion in the ordinance will be out of place. Now^ a word as to these offices. If the non-election of county officers or their continuance in office by the constitution affected in any manner the suc- cessful introduction of a state government, I should be in favor of a new efect.ion. No officer has a vested right fo his office. But we must take into consideration the convenience of the people, and the system which we have adopted. To continue these persons in office until the expiration of their terms would be simply continuing the system which we have adopted by this constitution. When we adopt this constitution we adopt all the laws, or we will adopt all the laws applicable to these officers and their tenure of office. Now, one or two things will bo done. We wovild make two irregular terms, or we wcnild continue these persons in office. It would be a term of one year, and then a tei'm of three years. That breaks ui> the system and interferes with its iiarrnonious operation. While fhesi> officers have no vested rights to their office, and the legislature can shorten their terms and take away their positions at any time it chooses, thei'e is a politi- cal equity in their continuance: not as affecting one parly or the othiM- party, but a matter of what we termed political eciuity. But it is not in- justice to these officers, that 1 am speaking. II is injustice lo the people of the lerritoiy and the coming stale that I make these remarks. If you cut short these terms and provide for a three year therm you v\m a great risk. Practically every person in office now whose term is cut short a year will be a candidate for reelection and will be renoniinati'd and stand a fai' better chance of reelection than if his term had not been cut short. Now t,here may be som,e excellent officers who may be elected for three yeai's. but you cut short the term and those oofficers are quite certain lo be re- elected and placed upon the people for three years longer. They will never be renominated again. It seems fo me it is a matter of precaution of the SIMOX S. HOBSON GEORGE W. KTAPLETOX O. F. GODDARD LEWIS H. HERSHFIELD CHARLES R. MIDDLETOX ALLAX R. JOT LUKE D. HATCH CONSTITU'nONAL CONVENTION 1889 689 peopli' iiiori' than it, is for tho protecting' of these officers to have their continuance iVir t\vo years until the terms for which they were iMected expired. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodye: In considering this matter before the Connnittee of the Whole at this time I am disposed to feel that these petty wranglings and petty decisions of the Committee of the Whole amount to nothing, and are a pure waste of time, for nothing in the world, for the purpose of allowing the members of the convention a chance to make some speeches. I do not care for it. ])ut let it go into the conxention where we can act upon it finally, it will amount to something and do some good. When we go over it time and time again it amounts to nothing. These discussions in the Committee of the Whole have retarded the action of the convention for several weeks. Now, for the ptu-pose of getting it where it belongs. I move Mr. Chairman that when this Committee rise to report this bill to the house they recommend that this amendment he considered in connection with the report of the Committee or Ordinance on this matter. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge (Mr. Robinson) and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I have an amendment to sectioon 11. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I have another amendment to section II. The Chairman: The gentleman from Choteau moves to amend section 11 by adding the following: "Provided that no county treasurer shall be eligible to succeed himself. after being elected under the provisicms of this constitution." The motion was seconded. Mr. Middleton of Custer: That would certainly be out of order. The committee have decided to report it back to the convention, to be consid- ered with the report of the committee on ordinance. The Chairman: The Chair understands that that referred to the amend- ment that was offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: That is what the motion extended to. ami nothing else. Mr. Conrad of Choteau asked the Chairman to return his amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I suggest that there is nothing in section 11 that in any way interferes %\ith the proposition as to whether the county officers shall hold or not, and I suggest that that proposition alone be post- poned and be considered in connection with the ordinance. But the other propositions in this section do not interfere at all with the main section. This section provided for county officers and for the term of their office, and it certainly belongs in this article. The question as to whether our county officers shall hold over or whether there shall be a general election is postponed, and I think that is the only thing that should be postponed. If we have an understanding as to that i'act then we can adopt these sec- tions 11, 12 and 14. This section 11 as I understand it does not interfere at all with the main question. The Chairman: The question has been referred back with a recommen- dation that it be referred to the committee on ordinances. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I suggest that by unanimous consent it would be arranged that this article be gone through with, and recommended for passage, and that the main question as to whether or not the main officers shall hold or shall go to the committee on ordinance. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: It is my understanding that the amendment only should be referred back, with recommendation that it be considered with the report of the committee on ordinance. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: Yes. sir: that was the motion. Mr. Eaton of Park: I would ask the chairwhat motion the chair put and declared carried. The Chairman: My understanding was that it referred to the section. Mr. Magiimis of Lewis & Clarke: I ask unanimous consent that the vote just taken shall refer only to that portion referring to the election of officers, and that the rest of the section he considered. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: The motion that was made only went to the amendment. C90 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES .Ml-. Wit.ter nf B('a\erlir;iil: 1 iiium' ymi thou, (liat whi'ii \vp rLse we re- por-t rcsniiition No. (3., ofl'crod by .Mr. (inddaid, back with the rt'commenda- tioii that it. Ill' made part, of thi' article on ordiaant'e. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the question. Mr. Collins of Cascade railed for (he reading of the I'esolution. The Clerk read the same. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodtii': 'I'liat was the motion that prevailed in the comimittee, and it enibndied the same proposition as the motion now made by the gentleman from l^eax erliead. Mr. Witter of KeaAerliead: I understand Ihat that motion was that it be considered in connection with the report of thi' ordinance committee, and this motion is to make it a [lart of (he article of ordinance. Mr. Ciark of Silver Bow: I undei'stand Ihat that had been recommended back to be considered in the Committee of the Whole in connection with the article on ordinance and not to be made a part of it. The Chairman: I believe the motion now is that it be made a part of the ordinance. Mr. Clarke of Silver How: I thought that motion was voted and car- ried. The Chairmian: That nderence to Section (> has referenci' to the Reso- lution No. 6. offered by Mr. Goddard. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis iV Clarke: I can see some propriety in in- structing the committee what it shall do. While to some e.xtent I favor the proposition contained in the resolution offered by the gentleman from Yel- lowstone, yet at the same time there is some propriety in letting it go back to the Committee on Ordinance, and allowing them to report to the convention, and then let the convention decide what to do with it. We do not want to tell them what the committee shall repoit. Mr. Magimiis of Lewis & Clarke: I concur with my colleague from Lewis & Clarke: The Convention has a 7-ight to instruct a committee, or to refer a subject to it with instruction, but I submit (hat the Committee of the \\hole has no right (o insti'uct any committee what they shall do. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I rise to a point of order. The motion did not so state at all. I did not ask to have it referred to any committee at all in my motion. It was to report it back with a recommendation that it be made a part, of the article on ordinani'e. Mr. Collins of Cascade: In order to bring this matter properly before (he Comimittee of the Whole I mme the following: "Resolved that it is the sense of this Committee that a general election be had for all state and county officers at the time this constitution is submitted for adoption." I offer that as an amendment. The amendment was seconded. The Chairman: The (Jhair will not entertain Ihe mofion of the gentle- man in connection with this resolution. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move to amend the motion now appending before the committee that when this committee rise they report this resolu- tion .just offered back to the house with the recommendation that it be considered in connection with the proposition on ordinance. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: It has been mo\ed by the gentleman from Meagher, that, when tlie conniiittee rise tlu'y report this resolution just offered back to the house with reconnnendation that it be considered in connection witli the proposition on ordiance. This is an amemlment to the motion of the gentleman from Beaverhead. Does the gentleman wish to accept if? Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: 1 do not. Mr. Eaton of Park: 1 would like lo inquii'e whelher llial molion has not already beeen adopted by this committee? The Chairman: For the information of (he geidleman I'mm I'ai-k I would state that this is the (ioddard resolution that we are considering now — I'esolution No. (i. The iinestion is that when this committi'e rise it report this resolution back (o the convention with the recommendation that it be considered in connection with the report of the committee on ordin- ance. 'I'he Chair init the said quest ioon f)n the miootion, of the gentleman from Meagher iMr. Kanousel. and a division being called for the .same was de- clared carried by a vole of 30 in (he affirm;l(i^e lo l';1 in the negative. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: Now. Mr. (^.hairman, I would like to have my amendmi'iit to section II read referring lo county officers. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 691 The Chairman: The gentleman frnni Choteau wishes to amend section "11 by adding thereto the loUowing: 'Provided that no county treasurer shall be eligible to succeed himself after being elected under the provision of this constitution." Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I think that is a wise provision to put in here. I do not think it is safe for county treasurers to succeed themselves five or six times. It is a safeguard placed around the public money. Let them go out after two years service, and if their accounts are made up all right they can wait two years. Mr. Hartman of (iallatin: I would like to have [he Chair decide this matter of sectioon 11. whether it has been referred to the committee on ordinance or not. The Chairman: No. the amindmeiit as offei-ed by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke was referred to that committee. The section is still open before the committee. The question is on the atioption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Choteau. which I believe was seconded. The Chair put the said question on the motion of the gentleman from Choteau (Mr. Conrad . and a division being called for the same was de- clared lost by a vote of 22 in the affirmative and 32 in tlie negative. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I have an amendment. The Chairmian: This amendment is to section 15. The Chair will leave it aside for the present until we arrive at the consideration of that section. The gentleman from Gallatin, .Mr. Luce, now offers the following amend- ment, to section 11: amend by adding the words "one clerk of the Distri<"t Court" after the word "taxes" in line 3. The motion was seconded. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I believe Mr. Chairman that the election of clerk of the District Court is provided for in the article that we have adopted on the judiciary. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I will withdraw my amendment. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move to amend by instering after the word "taxes" in line 3 the words "one county attorney."' The motion was seconded, Mr, Luce of Gallatin: That is provided for, Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I sent up an amendment to Section 11 as follows: After the word "deeds" on line 2 adh the words "and such other instruments as required to be recorded." The Chairman: Are there any further amendments. Mr. Eaton of Park: I desire to offer an amendment to section 11. After the word "taxes " in line 3 "provided that the county treasurer shall have held his office for more than three consecutive terms. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bo\% : .\ccording to that a man would never be eligible to hold office for county treasurer except for four years. Mr. Maginnis of Le-^\is & Clarke: I think the words "eligible for elec- tion but once" would cover it. The Chairman put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park. I Mr. Eaton . and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move to strike out the words "of deeds" on line 2. so that t shall read "and exofficio recorder." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins and a division being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of 19 in the affirmative to 16 in the negative. Mr. \Vhitehill of Deer Lodge: I have an amendment. On line 3 add after the word "taxes" and "ex-officio county superintendent of public schools."' so that it shall read "the treasurer shall be collector of taxes, and ex-officio county superintendent of public schools." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Whitehill of Deer I,odge: I think the office of county superintend- ent of the schools is a useless one. Theie are some things under the law as now established the county superintemlent does that could as properly be performed by the County Treasurer. There is one duty performed that the county superintendent of school does, and that is that the census of the school children shall he taken by that officer. It frequently happens that three or four children aie put on the same list, and it is necessary some one should look after that. Now that is really about the only import- ant duty that I can concei\e of that the county superintendent of schools 092 PROCEEDI.XGS AND DEBATES is needed lor at all. We ha\c 'S) or 30 pages on our statute i)i)oks regarding . tliis. and onc-liall' of it is alisolutel\ useless. Now. 1 do not find fault with any of the county sM[)ei'intendenls. In our county we have a young- lady who is a jewel, and I think has satisfied the county better than any super- intendent of schools we ha\e had. Ijuf I believe I hat these duties she per- forms could be dispensed with, and could be carried on withovd any Comity Superintendent. Now then^ are many of these d\ities that the county sup- erintendent performs Unit the slate ought to look afler. The first duty is I hat she shall apportion the school money. Now I say the county treasurer siiouii! do that, r do not lliink the s<'hools are bmiefited in the least by a coiuity superintendent of schools. Now this idea which I have here has been adopted in some places. In some States the County Attorney is made ex- officio County Superintendent of Schools, and I think it very proper that that office sliould be abolished and the county treasurers should perform all the duties that ai'e necessary to be performed. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer lodge: I know it is not necessary to take up nnn^h time in discussing this matter. 1 only desire to say that my colleague from Deer Lodge County is not very famdiar with the duties of the County Superintendent of Schools of today in this territory. I certainly believe that anything that will interfere with the progress of our school system ui this counlry is a very bad move, eithei' on the part of the legislature or this convention. I had the pleasure of atlending an institute in our county last year, and I do not hesitate to say I hat I believe that the benefit derived to the schools of Deer Lodge County from that one session was incalcu- lably more than the amount of the salary that the County Superintendent gets. There were young girls, and young men, and there wa.s a gathering of teachers old and young discussing the different important matters; and this institute was presided over by the County Superintendent of schools. I know the County Superintendent visits our schools, con\erses with the teachers, many of them young and inexperienced, and she looks into their affairs, and she prompts them and hel|is them, and showsl them where they are ladling, and shows Iheni iin|ioi'tant methods of teaching: and I say I apprehend it is not necessary to take up any lime in discussing this thing at all. I belie\e this convention is opposed to the amindment offered. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: It occured to me when my friend was talking that he had, to use a very common place expression, the cart before the horse. Now if instead of the county treaseurer being authorized to dis- charge the duties of county superintendent of schools ex-officio, I think it would be perhaps more proper to charge the county superintendent with discharging th(> rlulies of county treasurer ex-officio. I am satisfied the duties would be discharged just as well. I admit that my friend from Deer Lodge, who is a good judge and never speaks without knowing what he is talking about, lives in a coiuitry whei-e they have a jewel foi' county super- intendent, but (hi'v are no more favored Ihan we are in the lower counties. We would be all opposed to this thing down in Custer County, and if there is to be any shifting to the responsibility of the duties by \ irtue of an office, i an) in favor decidedly of transferring the duties of the county Irea.surer lo ih( county superintendent of schools, iljaughtei' Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I would like to know Ijow lliey propose to pay (his County Treasurer for perfoi'ming Ihe duty of Ihe Supei-intendent of J^ublic Instruction. The office of (;ounty Treasurer is paid \isually by feeing, such a pei-centage on the amount of money he collects. .\ow. are they going to have him perform all the duties of County Superintendent of Scliools without any compensation? My experience with officers has been Ihat they perfoiTn very few duties unless they get paid foi- thi'm. .About the first six monlhs after a man gets into an office he is very anxious about performing his duties, the i-est of his time he is very Anxious about bow nnndi pay h'' is going lo aiA for i)erforniing them: and if you put those duties over upon the treasurer you will liavi' viM'y few duties ]jerformef Schools. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: As has been well said here by some gentlemen who preceded me the office of County Superintendent of Schools is cer- tainly one of the most important and responsible offices that will be created by this constitution if the office is allowed to remain. I believe that the duties of that office require a very conipetent person, and one who would devote all of his or her time to the discharge of the duty. I have seen the working of the office, or rather the duties of the office, to a considerable extent, and I know as has been stated by .Mr. Toole that the good effivts that grow out of a proper discharge of the duties of the office are remark- able: and besides the two offices would be inconsistent and incompatible. There are seasons of the year wIk'u the County Treasurer has his hands full, for instance the last two or three months of the year when lax gather- ing time comes around. We know there is a time there for several weeks when the County Treasurer has all that he and his corps of help can pos- sibly do. Now, just about that time it might happen that one of these teachers institutes, which is also very important would come up. and it certainly would be impossible for the County Treasurer to exercise the duty of County Superintendent of Schools. Mr. Rotwitt of Meagher: We had this same law on our statutes, and the legislature of 1881 abolished it. 11 was found to be very unsatisfactory as our population increased, and now as our population has doubled in most of the counties I think it would be still niDre unsatisfactory,; and I hope this amendmient will not pn-vail. The Chairman: The question is on the proposition to amend section 11 by adding on line 3 after the word "taxes," the words "and ex-qfficio (!7ounty Superintendent of Schools." and on the same line to strike out the w"ords, "one " after the word "taxes." The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodgie. Mr. Whitehill. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Clerk then, read section 12 as follows: No person shall be eligible to any county office unless he is a qualified elector, not unless he shall have resided in the county at least one year next preceding his election. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin sent up an amendment to section 12. The Chairman: An amendment is offered to section 12 by the gentle- man from Gallatin as follows: Strike out the word "qualified elector" and insert "citizen of the State." The motion was seconded.- The Chair stated the question. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: I would like to inquire what "citizen of the state" means. We have recognized in this constitution I believe, citizens of the United Staes, but I do not understand what "citizens of the state" means. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I understand the citizen of the state to be a person that is a full fledged citizen, not a person that has taken out his first papers, but one that has completed his citizen,ship. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone. My understanding is that a citizen of the state is one who has come to this state with the intention of residing here permanently. A citizen might be a citizen of the state if he only had re- sided here one day. if he has the intention of making it his permanent resi- dence. Now, there is a provision in the suffrage proposition which makes it absolutely certain that a woman can hold the office of county superin- tendent. I would object to this amendment. I believe however that that has been provided for in the proi>ost.ion on suffrage, that the office of county superintendent may be filled by a woman. I believe the proposition as it is printed is proper, and it should be adopted. C94 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Hogaii of Silver Bow: If you make (his chaiigf in here il will lie somewhat conflicling with the qualifications of persons to liolil office. which were adopted in the article on suffrage. According to the qualifica- tions on that article, any person that is a qualified voter can hold office, so I think if you make this change here, while I certainly favor it. you will have lo do something with the other changies. Instead of being a "citizen" in the other requirements, it is "qualified electors," and if you insert that here is would certainly conflict with that. Mr. Witter of Beavei-head: 1 offer an anwudment to section 12. The Chairman: The gentleman from Beaverhead offers the following amendment: Add to section 12 "except as otherwise provided in this con- stitution." The motion was seconded. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I find in article 21 on judiciary that section 12 will come somewhat in conflict with that, as wj-U as in conflict with the office of county superintendent of public schools, and I should think that that w'ould harmonize the whole matter. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: I beg to call the attention of (he com- mittee to section 7, proposition No. i-i as it has been adopted. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: With the consent of my second I will wilhdraw my amendment. The Chairnian: The gi'iitlemnn from (iallatin withdraws his amend- ment. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke sent up an amendment. The Chaiirman: The gentleman's amendment (Mr. Hershfield) does not apply to the one offered by the gentleman from Beaverhead. Mr. Hershfield of Lewds & Clarke: Is there an amendment before the committee now? The Chairman: Yes, sir: the question is on the adoption of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Beaverhead to add to section 12 the words "except as otherwise provided in this constilntion." Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: I beg the indulgence of the committee. I would like to read section 7 of proposition No. 14 on suffrage: "no person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this State, civil or military, w-ho is not a citizen of the United States, and w'ho shall not have resided in this state, at least one year next preceding his appointment or election." I under?*tand that this has been adopted by the convention. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: Read section 11. You will see some differ- ence. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: That is true. At the same (inre it hen^ states the qualifications of any one relative to county officers. Thai sijeaks of territorial qualifications, or state qualifications, and this speaks of the county; so (hat I would think that the addition to (hat section would make it harmonious with even the section quoted bv (he gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: My idea was Ihat the tei-ms "offici" in this State" would comprehend county officei's. Mr. Luce of Galladn: Sectitm Id of Proposition No. 14 reads as follows: "Women shall be eligible (o hold the office of cunty superintendent of schools, or any district office, or to vote at any school elertion." I think that was adopted,, and this section 12 should be amended in some way so as not to conflict with that. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I move to sti'ike out secdon 12. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: It seems to me that the amendniriit offiu'i'd by the gentleman from Beaverhead co\ers the matter. The Chairman put the question on the said motion of (he gentleman from Bea%ehead. (Mr. \\'itter.), and a vote being taken llie same was de- clared cari'ied. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis iV Clarke sent up an aniendmeiil. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis \- Clarke fMr. Hershfield' proposes the following annindment: Strike out the word "one" and insert the word "two" in line 2 after the word "least" and add the letter "s" (o the word "year." The motion was seconded. Mr. Her-shfield of Lewis & Clarke: It is hai'dly woilh while to take up the time of the conventiim on the piojiriety of that aniendmrut. It cer- tainly ought to be provided for that, the person who .sieeks an office ought to bi'come acquainted with the office, and thi' duties of an office, and it is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1880 695 hardly possible lor any iiiiii\ idiial. no inattor how much of a genius lie may be. to be sufficiently acquainted witli the affairs of the locality in which he has made his home to entitle him to hold office, if he has re- sided in it but one year. I think the amendment is quite appi'opriate Mr. Burleijih of Custer: There is one obji'ction. and a very serious one, that I have to this amendment. Now my friend from Deer Lodge says it is impossible for a man to becone sutficiently qualified to attend to the duties of his office or the business of the county unless he has lived there two years. Now suppose a man happens to live right down in the upper part of (iallatiii Cnuniy; he liad been there for twenty years; he is familiar with all the duties of a county office there: will he undertake to say that if a man moves from Gallatin County into some other county that it is neces- sary for him to live there two years before he is qualified to perform the duties of a county office: It seems to me there is no reason in that: it seems to me that the facts would not justify his position under circum- staiici'~ of that kind: and how may men are thi'ce that change from one county to another that are familiar with the transaction of business in the different counties. I do not think any argument is necessary to defeat the matter. Mr. Bollard of Jefferson: It seems to me that proposition was settled in proposition .No. 14. Section 7. "no person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this state, civil or military, who is not a citizen of the United -^tRtes and who shall not have resirled in this State at least two > I ars next before his election or appointment." Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: This is a county matter. It relates to county affairs, and it is the very proposition that I want to defeat, the very proposition that the gentleman so eloquently expressed when he said that there are profes-sional office seekers, when they are unsuccssful in one county will go over to another county, if the chances are better for them there. Mr Burleigh of Custer: I do not think the majority of the counties are afflicted with professional oflice seekers after you get forty or fifty miles from this locality. Laughter^ The Chair put the question on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & (Harke Mr. Hershfield . and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. (Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I nrnve to strike out swtion 12. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the niotion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Carpenter) and a vole being taken the same was de- clared carried. The Clerk read section 13 as follows: "The Legislative .Vssembly shall provide for the election or appointment of such other county,, to^^^lship, precinct, municipal officers as public convenience may require, and their terms of office shall be as prescribed by law. not in any case to exceed two years, except as in this Cnnstitution otherwise provided." Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move to strike out Section It. and to amend Section 13 by inserting after the word "of" on line I the word "all," and strike out the word "other" on line 2. T belive that section 13 as thus amended will cover all of sections 11 and 13. and certainly in a great deal fewer words. It would then read. Mr. Chairman, "the Legislative Assembly shall provide for the election of all such county, precinct, and municipal officers, etf." I think that section 11 is certainly superfluous. Mr. W'hitehill of Deer Lodge: I move to strike out section 13 for the same reasons that I gave last night. The legislature has the power now to perform every act prescribed in section 13 without any action on the part of this convention whatever, and for the very reason that these sections were striken out last evening 1 move that this section be stricken out. Mr. Middleton of Custer: It seems to me that the motion of the gentle- n>an from Silver Bow should prevail. I think there ought to be some pro- vision in here touching the matter of county officers. I do not think it should define or specify what those officers should do. That matter should be left to the legislature; and striking out section 11 and amending section 13. 1 think it would be about right. I do no think it is proper to strike the entire matter out. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead called for the reading of the amendment. C96 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Chairman: Tlie anicdment as offered by the gentleman fnun Silver Bow is to strike out all of section 11 and to amend seetion 13 as follows: 0(1(1 the word "all" after the word "of" in line 1, and strike out the word "other" in line 2. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move Mr. Chairman to strike out the word "shall" in Section 13, line I, and substitute therefor the word "may." The Chairm'an: That amendment is not germane to the one offered by the gentleman from Silxer Bow. I shall put the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow first. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: If the amendment of the j^enlleman from Silver Bow prevails it will be in conflict with the Judiciary Act. The Judiciary Act provides for the election of certain county officers — county attorney and clerk of the Court, and if you leave that to I he legislature as proposed by tlie gentleman from Sdver Bow, it will lie in conflict with that Act, and I believe one or two other acts. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I think the gentleman from Yellowstoone (Mr. Goddard) is certainly mistaken: for inst,ance, one gentleman thought they had not enumerated the name of the District Court, and he attempted to amend that section, but his attention was called to the fact that there was provision made for that office elsewhere: and now it seem.^ in section 13 tliis committee had in mind the fact that some county officer had been over- looked. Now I believe if my amendment prevails it will cover everything that is covered in Section II and Section 13 and certainly in very much fewer words: it covers the ground entirely and more intelligently. I may be wrong, but that is my J\idgment and opinion. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: It is the duty of this Convention to establish a government for the State of Montana, and these officers that are enumer- ated in Section 11 are certainly necessary for the establishment of such government. In the meantime I would ask what would we do for county organizations — county officers, if they are not provided for by this con- stitution. It happens in the Judiciary Act that two county officers are pro- vided- for: one is the clerk of the district court and the other the county attorney, and this is supplementary to that and provides for all the othei- officers that aie necessary for a complete county organization. It is just a« necessary tiiat these county offices should be organized as it is for the State to be. It is our duty to make county organizations as well as state organi- zations, and we have not half done our work in my opinion if we do not pro- vide for county oi'ganizations. The Chair |iut the question on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Rickards) and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: I now renew my motion to strike out. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis it Clarke: I have an amendment to this section. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke moves to strike out section 13 and substitute the following: the term of any officer here- after created by law shall not exceeed two years, except justices of the sup- reme court. The motion was seconded. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I Irust that will not prevail. It clashes directly with the provision already adopted by this "convention, in regard to disti'ict judges and clerk of the district court, which has already been delerniiued and set,tled. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: It also conflicts with the pi'oposition we have adopted in relation to coimty commis-sioners. My undei'standing is that we have adopted a section here which provides that the comity com- missioners shall be elected for four years. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I think I will withdi-aw my amend- ment. The Chairman: Tlie gentleman withdraws the substitute and tln^ ques- tion now is on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge to strike out the section. The Chair put tln^ ipiestion on the motion of the gentleman from DeiM' Lodge, Mr, Whitehill, to strike out, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost, Mr, Burleigh of Custer: I now renew my motion to strike out "shall" In tlie first line and insert "may," so as to take the dog collar off the legis- lature, and not put it on. The molion was seconded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 1)97 The Chair put the question on tlie motion of tlie gentleman from Custer (Mr. Burleigh and a vote Ijeing taken the same was declared earried. The Cleric read Section 14 of Proposition No. 24 as follows: The compensation of all county, township and precinct officers, except as in this constitution otherwise provided, shall be prescribed by law. Ml-. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I wish to amend (he section. riie Chairman: The gentleman from Deer Lodgr, Mr. Robinson, moves to amend the section by adding after the word "the" on line I (he words "duties and." The molion was seconded. The Chaii- put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. Mr. Roliinsi>n. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. .Mr. Luce of (iallatin sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Gallatin moves the following amendment to section 14. by striking out the words "except as in this constitvifion otherwise provided". The molion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: Aly ol)ject in that is in avoid using superfluous lan.gu:ige. Any provision of this constitution would be law. and it is all co\ered by the expression "shall be as prescribed by law." Tlie Chair put the question on (he niiOtion of the gentleman from Ciallatin, Mr. Luce, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I move to strike out section 14. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: There is a substitute that has been on the desk for some time, and it will take precedence. The substitute is a substitute for Section 14 offered by Mr. Collins of Cascade as follows: "All state and county officers and clerks of court shall be paid by salary to be fixed by law, and all fees shall be collected and disposed of as provided by law. The compensation of (ownship and precinct officers shall be as provided by law." .Mr. Rickards of Silver How: I move the adoption of that substitute. The miction was seconded. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I do not know whether the mind of the convention is clearly set upon that. I think the section as it stands now is nuich be((er (han the amendment to it. It leaves it entirely discre- tionary t(i the legislature and this amendment is the kind of legislation that ought to be left to !he discretion of the li"gislature to say whether they shall be paid by salary oi- prerequisites. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentliMnan from Silver Bow, Mr. Rickards. to adopt the substitute offered by the geneleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I renew by motion to strike out section 14. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Beaverhead, Mr. ^^'itter. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Loud of Custer: I move that the committee take up Propostion No. 21, General File No. 38, Article on Corporations other than Municipal. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The Chair cannot entertain the motion. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: T move that when the committee rise that it report back Proposition No. 21 with the recommendation that as amended it do pass. The motion was seconded. The Chairman: The Chair cannot entertain the motion for the reason that there are certain propositions here tn be considered in connection with this article. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: T withdraw my motion. The Chairman: Genereal Files Nos. 9. 10 and 20 were to be considered with this report. No. 20 was considered last evening and disposed of, so that Nos. 9 and 10 will now come up for consideration. The Clerk will read General File Nos. 9 and 10. The Clerk read as follows: Extract No. 2, Resolution No. 13. introduced by Buford, relatin.a: to terms of offices of county and municipal officers, July 1.5th received, read, 698 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES and I'prpri'cd to committcp No. 10 on city, county and town organization. July 17 reported bark adversely and placed on General File No. 9.. "Re- solved, that tlie following be inc(U'porated as a provision in the constitution and be properly numbered. "No county or municipal officer shall hold office for more than two consecutiNe Iciius" The Chairman: (ientlemen, you have hearri I he resolution as read by the Clerk, which was offered by Mr. Bnford of Madison and which was to be read and considered in connection with Ibis report. W'tuit is the pleasure of the committee? Mr. Rickards, of Silver l!ow: I inoxc when the commilt(^e i-isi' they report back this resolution with the i-econnnendation thai il do not pass. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the qiiestion on the motinu of the gentleman from Silvei- Bow, Mr. Rickards, and a vot.e being taken the same was declared lost. The Cierk read Resolution No. in as follows: "lOstablishnient of new county." Read and referred to Committee on City. County and Town Organizations. .July 17. reported back ad\ersely and placed on (Jeneral l<'ile No. 10. "Resolved that in the creation and establishment of counlies they shall be named in regard to mountain range, river or other appropriate natural features of the country in the vicinity of proposed new counties." Presented by Kennedy of Missoula. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of the reso- lution. The motion was secondeil. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I would like to add an amendment to that — "as far as practicable." It may he im^possible to do that in a great many instances, but where it is possible to do it I think it ought to be done. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis i\: Clarke: I think the name of the county ought to have something descriptive of its locality, and we have nearly always followed that practice hi're. Where\-er we have departed from it f believe we have done wrong. Mr. Chessman, of Lewis it Clarke: It seems to me this is a very propei^ matter to leave to Ibe Legislature. I do not believe it ought to j^o into the constitution. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: It seems to me it is a good deal fd' a uimIIim- of sentiment instead of fundamental law. and I do not believe we want any more sentimentality in our constitution than can be helped. I'lie (Chairman: The (|urstion is on the aiioplion ot the amendmrid offered by the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Burleii;h, to add the woi'ils "as lar as practicable." The Chair put the question on the said amendment nffeii'd !]> Ilie gentleman from Cusler, and a vote being taken the .same was de(dai-ed lost. The Chairman: The question now occurs upon the adoption of the resolution. The Chair pid the question on the adoplion of said resolulion, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Chairman: There is another extract from Proposition 27 otferi'd by A. R. Joy. on Chinese Laboi'. It is to be considered in connection with the report of this committee. The Chair will read the section. "I'he l,egis- lature shall delegate all necessai'y power to the incorporated citii's and (owns of this state for th(^ remoxal of Chinese without Ihr limit of such cities or towns, or for their location within prescribed portions cd' those limits." .Mr. Hogan. of Silver Bow: I mii\(^ its ado|dion. 'I'he motion was seconded. 'I'he Chair put the quesliep them under separate management,. That is the reason T nITer it and mo\e the adoption. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: T believe it \ou addpl, Seclimi (i as it is. which will prohibit all expres.s companies or corporations of (his kind uniting with competing companies Hint this amendment will he germane and should be adopted also. Thi're is no use prohibiting corporations if you do not, pi'dliildt Ihe persnns. I Ihink the section is a little too harsh, but if it is to be adopled I believe the amendnieni nf Ihe .L^enllenian fi'oni .lefferson is good. CONSTITITIONAL CON\'ENTION 1889 701 The Chair put the guestioii on the amendment of the gentleman from Jefferson Mr. Breen' . A vote being- taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to Section 6. the Clerk read Section 7, as follows: Section 7. "'.All individuals, associations and corporations shall have equal rights to have persons 'ii' property transported on and over any railroad, transportation or express route in this State. No discrimination in charges or facilities for transportation of freight or passengers of the same class shall be made by any railroad or transportation or express company between persons or places within this State; but excursion or commutation tickets may he issued and sold at special rates, provided such rates are the same to all persons. Xo railroad or transportation or express company shall be allowed to charge mnpA foil for the transporta- tion of freight or passengers to any place or station upon its route or line than it charges for the transportation of the same class of freight or passengers to any more distant i»lace or station upon its route or line within tiiis State. Xo railroad, express or transportation company, nor any lessee, manager, or other employe thereof, shall give any preference to any individual, association or corporation in furnishing cars or motive power or for the transportation of money or other express matter. There being no amendment to Section 7. the .Clerk read Section 8, as follows: Section 8. "Xo railroad, express or other transportation company, in existence at the time of the adoption of this consfifufion. shall have the benefit of any future lesislation. without first filing in the office of Secre- tary of Stale an acceptance of the provisions of this constitution in bind- ing form." There being no amendment to Section 8. the Clerk read Section 9, as follows: Section 0. '"The right of eminent domain shall never be abridged, nor so consti-ucted as to prevent the Legislative Assembly from taking the property and franchises of incorporated companies, and sub.jecting them to public use the same as the property of indixiduals: and the public powers of the State shall never he abridged, or so construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe the equal rights of individuals, or the general wellheing of the State. There being no amendment to Section 9. the Clerk read Section in. as fidlows: Section 10. "Xo corporation shall issue stot^ks or bonds, except for labor done, services performed or money and property actually received, and all fictitious increase of stock or indebtedness shall be void. The stock of corporations shall not be increased except in pursuance of general law. nor without the consent of the persons holding a majority of the stfH-k, first obtained at a meeting held after at least thirty days' notice ' given in pursuance of law.'" Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I offer an amendment to be mniibered II. The Chaii-man: The gentleman from Lewis i^' Clarke, Mr. Toole, offers as an amendment the following: ".\dd the following as Section 11. T have renumbered the remaining sections to correspond." The Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: "Each stockholder of a corporation for joint stock association shall be individually and personally liable for such proportion of all its ilebts and liabilities if contracted and incurred durintr the time he was the stockholder as the amount of stock or shares owneil by him bears to the whole of the specified capital stock or shares of corporations or associa- tions. The directors or trustees of corporations and joint stock associa- tions shall be jointly and civilly liable to the creditors and stockholders for all moneys embezzled or misappropriated by officers of such corpora- tion or jointstock associations during the terni of office of such directxirs or trustees." Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move the atloplion of the amendment. 'I he motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: \ think that ought to go in the constitution. It is. I believe, the law in nearly every state of the Union. The law of this Territory makes a stockholder of a joint stock company 702 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES or corporation liabli' only for Ihi' amount of inroniplptcd slock in the concern. Now, under the laws which obtain liere. pri'tty nearly everything in this Territory is run into a corporation. It seems to nie a sort of panacea for all 'tickets ami conditions of commerce anil everything else. There is the provision in California. 1 have found from more experience ill the matter that many of thi' stales provide for just what purijose a (•orporation may be credited and for no other: but here, under our laws, it seems that a corporation may be credited for any purposi' — I he (-igar sland. the n-al estate agency, a grocery store, a drygoods store, and cvery- Ihing possible which may be compr-elieniled under tlie term "Industrial Purposes." And I have ascertained further that in undertaking some judgment, amouid. $aXl nr -$300. against an individual s\ii)posed to be worth $250,1100 or $3U(i;0U0, not a dollar's worlh of properly against which an execution would run could be fuunti upon which to levy; everything was conveyed to the incorporation, and in many instances th(> property itself, if it is a real estate concern, where the property represented b.\' the corporation was spiO.OOO, the property was con\eyed at once to the cor- poration for that consideration. And the stock of the concern issued as fully paid up slock and yet that concern is pei'inittcd to transact busine.ss in the community without any sort of per-sonal liability so far as it stock- holders are concerned. I think it is wrong in princijile. so far as I know no better provision than that can find its way into the constitution. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: It seems to me that llie gentleman I'l'om Lewis & Clarke County in moving Ihis amendment certainly has not studied very well the effects such a provision as this wnuld produce. Now, sir, if you adopt a provision like this in the constitution of Montana, you will not only drive all foreign capital invested in the stale away, but you would prevent any further inquiries of foreign capital in this country. Now, it is the object and to the advantage of corporations — the mining coi-poi-ation, connnercial, agricultural and all other kinds of induslrial corporations, if they are founded ui)on the legitimale basis — and 1 bidieve that Montana is as free from wildcat operations, and |)i'obably much more so, than any other state or territory in the west— 1 lielieye we can safely say that thi're ai'i> less wildcat forgement institutions than are iiu'orpor- atod, or that are sought to lie thrust upon the publir in state or in the territory cd' Montana than anywhere else in the weslern country — and it is a great advantage to promotei-s of the legitimate enterprises of this character to be enabled to sell their shares in Ihe eastern markets. Look at the "Boston and Montana" in l=!utte — "The I'oorman's" down her(> in Idaho— and I might cite you 100 other legitimate enterprises in the Stair of Montana. I think with this provision in the constitution I undertake to say that that stock would come rolling back to Montana to be sold for whatever they could get foi- it. My reasons are these. Gentli'uwn who have been associated with coriim'ations of this (duiracter well know that frequently it hap|iens that Ihe managemeid of a corporation goes into the hands of a minority of the representation of the stock: bul allow- ing that a majoi-ily has the management of Ihe affairs, what protertinn has the 49%, we will say, of the stockholders got when the mamigenvent of the property is enlirely out of llndr hands and in Ihe hands of the persons holdmg 51 '^ of the stock: and these men mav go on operating the busmess of Ihat corporation and I'raudulenllv absor'bing all of it-* assets, and these innocent stocklioliiers on the outside ha\c no remeilv whatever except to I'ush into the mai'ket and sell their sloi'k. I sa>- it i'-; an unfan' proposition and it will work to the detrimeid of all of cntr corporations in this cinmtry where thev s(>ek to sell the shares of other coinrianies ni the foreign markets or the eastern markets. Now, there has been a great deal of stress laid on the proposition that when Monlana enters as a state we are to be taken out of the restrictidiis of the alien law. We know well Ihat millions of dollars that would have been invested in Ihe lerrilory of Monlana did not come hei'e because lhe\- hail no prntection undei' Ibis alien law: but let us pass an ordinance like Ibis or engraft into the constitution of Ihe state guch a pro\ision as this, and you could not sell one share of a corporation in the markels of the old world, nor, could you in Ihe markets of Ihe I'nited States outside of perhaps a few people who might b(> identitied witli the management of the business. 1 say that it you adopt this principal you are going In embarrass and handicap every enterprise in this country which seeks to have its business carried on under the act of incor|ioration. Mr. Slaidelon, of Siher Biiw : Mr. Chairman. I believe if ynu adopt this section that you will ruin half the corpoi'ations in this territory. coNSTrnrio.NAi. convention issn 703 I ilo not hi'lii'vi' i(, is pnssihli' In ciitiT inio any 'dirporato busiiu's? with a section liko this. I liolii'vo that our present hnv as it exists upon the statute book is the best that can itossit)iy be framed in regard to corpora- t*ons, and this is the first complaint, that I have ever heard in regard to tlie workings of our present law. Now, it must be admitted that the party who deals with corporations has the same protection as the party who deals with an individual, for the reason that a corporation is only an individual, and they have the same op|)ortunity of finding out and knowing what the responsibility of an indi\idual is. The records are open, and they can find out, and know what property is owned by a corporation the same as an individual. The argument that my friend, Mr. Toole, made would apply equally to an individual as to a corporation. Every lawyer knows that that very often hapjtens. and yet that is no ^rgiunent why corporations should not be allowed to do business on the same basis. .Now, Mr. Chairman, under our present law as we liave in Montana territory, and as it will be left by the laws that we are now considering, no one is liable for the debts of the corporation except so far and to the extent of its unpaid capital stock. If he subscribes for the capital stock of a corporation he must pay that stock in, otherwise he is liable to the extent of that unpaid stock. That is perfectly right and proper, because the supposition is that when he has paid the stock he has paid the value of it. Now, suppose that when you open stock books a partv purchases stock, and he pays his money in good faith. Then he has done all that any honest man should be required to do, and the corporation has the management of that money: it has been put in their hands. Now, Mr. Chairman, if you say that notwithstanding he has paid his money in in good faith — if you say that he shall be liable for the debts of that corporation, it appears to me that there is no man who would consent to invest in any corporate enterprise in the world. The stock of any incorporation under our laws is personal property, and you can go into" the market and purchase a thousand or ten thousand shares of the stock; you may hold it an lio in here and drop a hundred thousand dollars of hi.s money in the development of our I'csources. if he happens to prove unfortunate in his in\estnii>nt we cannot help that: but we want to be just. We can say to him. "Here you have gone in here and you have put vour money in, arid you are out of luck; if you are so short that you can iiot get out of town we will lend you enoiit;h to see you home. < Laughter' Hut we want to be just with these peojile. and we do not want to hedge around the developnient of our i esources hy any such si rict rules of conduct either moral or' business. We want their money lo di'veloii the country; we want their- errergy, and we want their- enterpr'ise. I-ast Satur-day I was Ml, lire .\rracorrda, a place that I rrever visited befor-e, wher'c I saw more ma- chiner'y dr-iven by power that was inxenteii and called into r'cquisition by man— saw those mountains bored, those wonderful str'uctur'cs iiut up, and a vast developmerrt of weallh lliei-e, arrd all by capital bi'orrfiht into this CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 705 country; and I came (o the conclusion that a man that obstructed its introduction into this country was, to say the least, benighted. I hope this amendment will not prcNail. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: Mr. Chairman, this question as to the con- sideration of corporations and the interests of the territory is something that 1 have given no little consideration to. I lielieve, as a lawyer, that as affecting the interests nf corporations and affecting the business com- munity of Montana, that I have some knowledge of the proposition. I do not entirely agree with the gentlemen on either side nf this proposilinn to the full extent that tiiey have gone. In the first place, I would be the last one, living in a mining county as I do, especially where the aid of cor- porations must bo invoked and where the concentration of capital is nec- essary to devel(,ip the very resources of the country where I live: wliere it is necessary to my ONvni interests — I would be the last one to thwart or interfere with that directly or indirectly or to prevent the concentration of capital for the pui'poses of carrying on these enterprises. On the other hand, sir, I have been trained in a school to believe that every man who has contracted a debt to the extent of his means, should pay that debt. I would hold out no false lit;h(s for people to run after; I do not belii've in deceiving thi' innocent ludilic. I belie\e in a square, fair transaction in all these matters and let the result of it be what it m;ay. I believe that it is the better policy always to deal fairly and squarely with the public. .\ow, '.0 invoke that principle as applicable to thi'se corporations, it occurs to me in this way. I would not be unmerciful to corporations if it were not carried to the extent that the gentleman himself contemplates. I be- lieve that would be going too far. I believe, on the other hand, if we leave it just exactly where our statutes leaves it at the present time, that it is not going far enotigh to protect innocent parties who deal with corpora- tions. We have, sir. on our statute books a law that reads fair on its face and it goes far beyond what the President of this Convention would suggest should be the created law: it goes too far in one respect, and not far enough in another. I will read the section. Section iol of our act with regard to this character of corporations provides as follows: "That the stockholders of every company incorporated under the provisions of this chapter shall be severally and individually liable to the creditors of the company in which they are stockholders to the amount of the unpaid stock held by them respectively, for all acts and contracts made by such company until the whole amount of the capital stock subscribed for shall have been paid in."" That. sir. reads very fair upon its face and goes to a very great extent in protecting parties dealing with corporations. The dif- ficulty with this section is simply this. In another section of the statute it stands in this way, that where two, thiee or more men who are worth two or three millions of dollars, each may incorporate a company and tix its capital sloi-k at a million and a half dollars. In the first place the public in dealing with corpoi'ations. do not look to the responsibility of the artificial persons at all: few of them are well enough versed in law: the laborers and the mechanics and merchants are not well enough \ersed in law to know that, the corporation is only bound to a limited extent, but that as they extend credit they do it more on the financial responsi- bility of the men who are conducting that corporation^be proprietors themselves. They believe they are responsible in every way, shape or fashion, and they deal with that corporation as if dealing with individual men and believe they are amply protected until the corporate property proves a failure. They go to ttiese corpoi-ations to collect their bills: it is a faihire and they are advised of the fact that the corporate property is of no value and that there is no individual I'esponsibility. Tiolwithslamiins the provision of this section of the statute, for the I'eason that they have, in taking half a million of the capital stock of the corporation, turned into that corporation wild-cat property that has proved after the expendi- ture of $1,000. S20.0flO or $.50.000— aft er s]iending that amount of money on the corporate property — it has proved an utter failure and worthless and they say our creditors can take the corporate property on which we have expended our money and which we have turned in in payment of the mil- lion and a half dollars that we have subscribed to the capital stock of tliat company. That renders this section or statute entirely nugatory and of no effect whate\er. In that way they hold out a false light to laborins: nien. mechanics and business men to extend credit to them upon the faith in the character of the men who conduct the corporations. Now, if those men are honorable men and want to do what is richt, they will, in deal- 706 PKOCEEDINGS AND DEBATES iiig fair and square with tlio piiljlic. one of two things. They will say. or should at least say. that those iiuioeent parties should be proteete'd or that the law should be as conlemplated by Ibis amendment that I offer; that they should only exonerate tlieiiiselvrs from this liability upon paymi'nt into the treasury of that eompany the par value of the stock for whicii they have subscribed, that is, the owner of a particular share of stock that represents one or t,en dollars oi the capital stock of that company should pay in the par value of Ihat stock if they desire to entirely exon- erate themselves from any claim that the creditors of the company may have against them. But, as the law now stands, if they can get around this section of the statute, as I said before, by putting in payment SI,- 500,000 of land that is worth only .$150,000, they will do it. These men are irresponsible; they are adventurers; but they are not such businrss men as many of our business men in Montana. T can call to mind not far back when mining adventurers were not as successful as they are now. I re- nitember in one of our great mining towns where business men and la- boring men were short from seventy-fi\e to one hundred thousand dollars in labor and material, all put into those mines: they proved a failure. I know that, sir, by being called upon by those claimanta as their attorney to make a demand to collect those funds, biit I was thwarted upon the very Ihreshhold by that section. Now. (hat is not honest: that is not right be- tween man and man. .Many of our men who are operating mines today would not do such a thing as that, but men who come into the country — adventurers — they have done just such things as I speak of: tliey are liable at any time to do it again. I know of instances in Montana where that is being done. Now. then,, perhaps to go to Ihe extent of the amend- ment offered by tlie gentleman from Lewis iS; Clarke contempla'les would be going too far. That is, if contemplates that, imder certain circum- stances, the stockholders in a corporation should be liable for the corpor- ate debts, even if they had paid in the par \alue of the stock as contem- plated in this section here. That is going too far, and to obviate that I offer the amendment that I do, "Unless he shall have paid in the par value of the stock that he holds." My amendment goes a little further than tliat and seeks to put it on an honest basis of actual cash or property, at its actual casli value. .\ow. then, my idea about this thing is to i)rofect all parties: to do that it will not thwart or interfere with the organization of legal corporations at all. It will say tn men who desire to go into those cor- porations and carry out (hose i nier-prises that you. in common with every- body else in Montana, should exjK^ct to pay your debts. We do not desire men to undertake enterprises here who will represent themselves as being worth a million and a half dollars and who may contract a debt of $.50.- 000 with the working elements or the mechanics and business men of Mim tana and shall not be liable for it. Now, with all deference, I do not belie\e (hat is a fair deal. This principle, as may be claimed by gendemen who control the hooks — thei'e are articles of incorporation filed now in Mon- tana in the Clerk's Office and others with the Secretary ot State — that men contracting with such cor|)orations can go and look at those articles of incorporation — they can go and look at the bylaws of the company: they can look at the statutes of Monlana, (hey can look at the deeds (hal'are on file — on record — of the corporations and see to what extent the capital stock has been paid up and it (hey do not desire to do a day's labor for (hat corporation, why, that is llieir own business. That is one aspect of the case and as a niattei- id' practical application, men thai ileal with corporations do not go and look at all those things. .\s 1 said before, they rely on the responsibility of the men who manage them. Then, unless they go and examine and see what kind of property the corpoi'afion has and how much of their capital stock they have paid up, it is holding out a false light (o the busi- ness world; it is a place where this false light can be held (o men; when they expect one thing, there is covertly another stariivm them in tlie face, because the men who incorporated the conijianies are not honorable men and do not want to do what is I'ight. T'hat is what I object to. and that is pre^entell by the amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis and Clarke — ajid to carry out. tlie provisions of this section of the statute which T have read. It seems (o me il would he a fair deal all around to earry out this pro\ision of the statute in good failh and not allow a provision created in oui legislation, by which this can be renriered nugatory by allowing incoi'poraled properties to ti-insfer a mine or other property woith $25.ilO() in payment of hundreds of thousands of dollars. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION IS89 707 I do not think that, is fair or right and I thinlv (hat this amendment with the amendment that I offer to it would be carrying- out the principle laid down here by this statute which has been recognized and which mining men do not object to. Suppose we would incorporate a water company. We want to dig a ditch that costs ¥50,000. We incorporated our company and put the capital stock at- half a million dollars; we will deed to that corpor- ation that water right, or a few rods of ditch that may have been loaned we will deed them in full payment of our capital stock of half a million dol- lars and go on then with our work and contract a ditch at an expense of SIOO.OOO, and you have got that ditch done — taking the chances — that ditch will prove a failure: suppose we are all right men who have inaugurated this scheme. Men who are today working on that ditch do not know the intrica<^y of the law — how easily they may be thwarted: they cnme to us and say we are not responsible to you, you have worked on the strength of the value of that ditch alone, and one man may say I do not propose to pay a dollar for the ilebt to the men, although I have subscribed over one hundred thousand dollars to the capital stock and I have an interest in the water right and I am protected. I say, then, that that holds out a false light to the business community and to the world anil it is not fair and just and I do not believe that men who seek to invest money with us and carry out those mining operations in good faith — I do not believe that they would expect, and it would be uiu-easonable foi' them to expect us to leg- islate in such a way that they covdd not be required in a reasonable man- ner to pay their debts. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I think, Mr. Chairman, that I will go as far as any gentleman to advance the material interests of this new state and perhaps will do as little to stifle any enterprise as any gentle- xna.n here: but I fail to discover, sir, why it is that a mere transformation of a business transaction from that of an imiividual enterprise to a corpor- ate enterprise should change the morale or integrity of the transaction. If an individual has escaped the obligation of liability, the laws of this country hold him for the payment of it; if it is a loan upon my property, my property is first subject to the payment of it and a judgment from the courts is the remedy for the deficiency. I simply ask by this amendment to put an incorporated company into the shoes of an individual so far as its liability is concerned and not even to that extent, limiting it to the amount of the indebtedness created at the timie of the holding of his stock. Now, sir, there must be some reciprocity in regard to these transactions. Organizations must not be allowed to be understood to be for the sole pur- pose of promoting the interest of the corporations. There must be some reciprocity by which the interests of the public may be protected. If money is loaned by the individual, he has recourse to the public law courts — to the records of deeds, where they are spread upon the open books. It is the history of the property of the person and his liability may be ascertained liy consulting the records of the district court. Now. how is it sir, with regard to the transactions of a corporation? The liooks of the company are open to nobody but the stockholders and creditors of the concern. The individual who transacts business with a corporation is in entire ignorance of its status, and, as suggested by the gentleman from Deer Lodge Mr. Robinson' h.? relies upon the character and integrity of the promoters of the concern and it is upon both the faith and credit given to those gentlemen more than to the corporation that he is induced to loan his money or perform his services. Now, I do not conceive that it is necessary for the interests and property of this country that everything from the crop to the mining concern shall be incorporated. I do not be- lieve it is niH'essary in order to sell a mine — whether it be one of mod- erate value or of the highest value — that it shall he necessary to incor- porate it in order to induce foreign capital to come into this countiy. I have done as much as I could, ont only upon this floor but elsewhere to secure such legislation as w-ould be an invitation to foreign capital to invest its money in this country. The pi-oposition which puts a corporation upon the same footing as an individual does not take from them, in my humble juiigment, the invitation which has been extended in that regard, and they can come here if they want to buy mining properties and examine into the title of the concerns. If my friend from Silver Bow, Mr. Clark, has a mine which he wishes to sell to foreign capital, and they are unwilling to take the stock with any embargo which may he upon it by reason of any indebtedness of which they know nothing, let Mr, Clark and his 708 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES incorporntors rcdrgaiiizr, scHle uji Ihe di'bts of the cdiiccra, and transfiM- to tlio new corporation the property whii'h is represented hy the stort;. It seems to hjo tliat no incorporated eoinpany has the right to demand or ask anything over or above the individual of the community. I tliink the suggestion made by the gentleman from Deer Lodge (Mr. Rob- inson', as embodied in his amendment, would perhaps subserve all the purposes contemplated: in other words if an incorporated company lias a business — a grocery business or a mine — worth -$100,000 and they are inclined to incorporate it and stock it for $500,000, let the amount of money which the stockholder puts into it represent the amount id' the capital stock; that is to say, if it is five dollars a share, let him put up the par value of the stock, so that the amount in the treasury may represent ex- actly what the stock is declared to be; and in that way there is no ad- vantage taken of the public. The public lias a right to know something of the affairs of the concern with which they deal. I have no hostility to any particular corporation or to corporations in general: I have no hos- tility to the system when it is confined within due bounds, but under a law which authorizes anything and everything to be made the subject of an incorporation it seems to me that the pidilic has some interests and some rights which ought to he guarded and protected, and T think that the propo- sition submitted by the. gentleman from Deer Lodge 'Mr. Robinson- is a very modest departure in that direction. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: The distinguished gentleman who has introduced this proposition informs us that he got it from the constitution of California. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: No. from the laws of California. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: That proposition introduced into the laws of California drove fi'Oin that state almost every mining corpoi-ation that ex- isted there, no matter what kind of corporation, a wild-cat corporation or a corporation that had a good and substantial basis. The gentlemen say that men who deal with these corporations deal with them upon the faith of those who manage them. I deny that. Men who deal with these cor- porations deal with them from wliat they know of their condition, the value of their property, what incumbrances is upon that property. Mr. Robinson has spoken of mining transactions that occurred in this county .some years ago that were ULifoi'lunale and how the people of that section of country were wronged. T happen to know sonK'thing of some of .these corporations. One of them, I think, was organized luider the corporate laws of the State of Pennsylvania, and when we had procui'ed judgment against the company for some $'iO,000,' and thought under the laws of Pennsylvania we might collect it of some of the officers of the company. Mr. Napton, now deceased, wi'ut to Philadelphia and he found that the stock of the company was in the hands of dummies, except a snuail amount, enough to make certain responsible gentlemen directors — men that you could not collect five cents from. The stock had all been transferred to them a year or two before. 'I'here is no ti'ouble in getting around these matters. The gentleman says to put in the corporate property for its cash value. I know mining coi'porations are organized in the Territory and they announce the capital stock as four or five millions of dollars. Some of the corporations perhaps are organized in such a way as to make the stockholders liable, just as Mr. Robinson wishes: others are perhaps organized propei'ly: l)u| if with such a provision in inw constitution as this it is no trouble to organize corpoi^ations and deed to them the property in any amount of value— $2-50 — that will not a.ffect the sale of the stock. The slock in mining corporations will ahva\s sell in accordance with what aiipears to be the value of that prc'jirrty. Why, over here in his town they have organized a lol of miniTig coi'porations there, all of Which T tliink are claimed to have from four to five millions of dollars of capital stock, and the stock lias been selling for 10. 15. 20, and none of it higher than 5b cents, par value, of the shares of stock. Now, I undertake to say that those mining operations that have developed those mines in that section of country, or that ha\e developed them in othei- seidions of country, would not ha\e been eiitci'ed into by ttie people of this section of country if they had known that they were making themselves liable foi' lall of the debt.s of these mining cimipanies. They would not have gone into those corpora- tions and ciinlritiidi'd, some .^."iO, some $100, some $')(M.\ and some .^^(XIO, if they had expeclcd for one moment that they were to be liable. If that is the case, what is the result? Why. in organizing corpoi-ations such as these gentlemen wish here you will ri'tard the de\elopment of the country. CO-NSTITUTIUNAL CONVENTION ItWit 70;) Most of tliose corporations for clp\oloping mines are formed right ht'Vr with us, and as has been saiil. for a nuiiiher of years there have been no in- stances known where the people have been swindled by these corporations. Gentlemen have trusted these corporations. not upon the faith of those who manage them, but upon the faith of how they have been organized, and they have trusted them only in accordance with their faith in trusting individuals having so much property. And I am siu-e that there is no ad\antage being taken of the public, as has been suggested in this matter. Can a gentleman cite where the public has been taken advantage of by any of these corporations for the last ten years"? I know of none myself — none whatever. Men have dealt with them as they would with individuals. I know there are a great many men that will go to work for a corporation knowing just the whole condition of that coi*poration — knowing how much property they have — and if the corporation fails then they turn arovind and wish to get their pay from some individual connected with the corporation. Now this proposi- tion that the gentleman has presented here is an old proposition. The leg- islatures were generally hostile to corporations fifty years Jigo, and they used to make some such provision as this as to the personal liability of in- dividuals. You find that even now in the National Bankin Act. where they have made them liable for the same amount as their stock. But the great mass of the corporations in this country that are incorporated for mining purposes and such purposes as are kindred to them, do not make their stockholders liable for the debts of the corporation. It is well known that men would not go into these corporations: they would not put up their money upon those conditions. It is generally ea.sy enough to find out how much" money is put up for a corporation, how much is subscribed, how much is really the caiutal stock. Gentlemen say that they keep their books so that no one can tell. If anv corporation keeps the books so that no one can tell whether it is solvent or not. does that take advantage of them? People are not forced to deal with corporations. The truth is that this country is prospering in its mining enterprises by reason of its corpora- tions, and for the reason that these people were not liable for their cor- poration stock. Anyone can go and examine their books, and everything that is reasonable. I think, in these matters has been done by our law. Take up the proposition as Mr. Robinson says. Why. if he inaugurates that system, all that is necessary to do is to say that the capital stock of your mining enterprise is 82.50.000. Then the stork will sell for just exactly what it is worth. You can put it at one cent a share, but it will go back to the question of what will that amount pay in dividends and if it will pav something in dividends it will go up to one dollar a share. There is no trouble in gettins around the proposition that the gentleman has stated at all. and there is" no use of putting that into our constitution. Shut out legislation or any encroachment that can be made upon this subject of mines or kindred enterprises, smelting enterprises, or such other enter- prises, bv legislatures in the future. You have fixed it up here in a cast- iron foim of constitution, so that it can only be amended after action by the legislature and bv vote of the people, and I think that we can fix our constitution so that this matter can be wholly relegated to the legislature. Let the legislature act upon it. There is no necee^sity for prescribing all such n^atters as this in a constitution, and except in California I do not know of a single state in this T'nion that has put such a provision in its constitution. Mv. Breen of Jefferson: About two weeks ago I received a letter from one of the brightest men in the Territory of Montana today: it was closely written and contained ten pages and it related to the very subject we are discussing now. I had an amendment something similar to the one pre- sented by Mr. Toole waiting for the time to offer it. and I am very glad that a man of his ability and standing made the amendment instead of my being compelled to make it. and I hope it will prevail. Now, in regard to these corporations, when it comes to a question of corporations and the mechanics, laborers and business men of the territory. I think it is to the interest of the people of Montana that it shall be the corporations that will .suffer. ^Ve can go to the Iowti of the gentlemen that oppose this amendment — to the triwn of Butte— and we have an example of it there. I imagine everyone remembers the Bell Concentrating and Reduction Com- pany. I worked for that company and wanted to get my pay but could not. I went to consult lawj^ers and I found that I could do nothing. I tried to attach the property. I was working for the Bell Concentrating & Reduc- 710 PitOC.F.KDIXCS AND DEBATES lion Coiiiijany. Mr. King was sU|ii'i'inliMiilt'nl of tho cunipany, and Mr. Wal- lace and Mr. King were the Bell C.oncentraling- & Reduction Cunipany, but I found out that the Bell t'oncenti'ating & Reduction Company were not Mr. Wallace and Mr. King. I ti'ied to attach the (diiucual and the ongine land everytliing, and wtien I got to llie hmse and buggy I found that the horse and buggy was a pi-eseiil trmn .Mr. Wallace to \!r. King and was in no way connected with tile Bell Concentrating I'v: Reduction Coni|j;>ny. If we are to protect such men as Wallace and King, or any other- men. I don't care who they are, with sucJi principles as Ihat, and jet. the laborers and miners and mechanics and business men of the leri'itory suffer, I say we had betfer not have sucli corpoi-tlions, and I hope the amendment will prevail. Is not Silver Bow Counly better off today since the Bell smelt(>r shut dow-n? Over here in the Cataract district we have ai St. Louis com- pany operating there.. If they strike it rich Ihey will pay their men and if not they won't pay them. The wu'kmen don't know any better, but so long as it is a corporation and has a superintendent they will go there and they will work for thi-ni. ^^'e don't want any such coi'porations. We will take legilimate chances and exery man be liable for his just debts, and I hope Mr. Toole's amendment will prevail. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: The citizens of Butte put up over $150.- 000 for the laborers that workeil upon the Bell Company property — men that put it up and bought stock in that company, and they never got any return back. There is a gentleman within the sound of my voice now that put up $50,000 that those laborers got, and he has never got a dollar of it back. Mr. Breen of Jeffer.son: I did not say that there w"ere men who were officers in these companies who were good men, and for such men as that there is no need to offer (his amendment — men that are going to stay within their means and not r^o off on wild-cat speculations and realize, or attempt to realize a million dollars out of • a possible thousand, and if they don't miake it to fleece the laborer and everybody else to the extent of $100,000. It is such men as that class that are the ones that this amendment is intended to cover an(l not the honest, legitimate business men of Mon- tana. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: All of this debate would be very enter- taining and instructive if we were a legislative assemlily, but I riuiie -agree with the remarks of my colleague. .Judge Knowles. when he says that this is a matter that ought to have been left to the legislative assembly. It may seem presumptuous for me to stand on my feet and raise the ([uestion as to what is fundamental law: nevertheless I do say Ihat in my judgment there is a great deal in this pro]Kisition that has not any place in the con- stitution of the state; and I want to expreess my disappointment that there is so much here that is unnecessary, for I have looki>d over the statutes of our territory as they are now in operation and I find a great deal in the statutes now that is incor])oi'ated in this conslitulion. Now, I do not see the need of this. A genlleman saici lo me in the city of Butte the other day. "Mr. Ricka-rds. I predict that the ma.jority of (he members of (hat constitutional convention will regret the day (hat they were ever elected to that convention." There is abroad in this tei'ritory a feeling (hat you are doing and attempting too much in the way of legislation. The only objection that we had to the old consti(u(ion was (hal (here was so miu-h legislation in it; and I regret to see, and I want to raise my voice at Ibis time against so much effort, so much al(enu>l — so inu(di f\i(ile a((empt (o incorpoi'ate in our constitution what ought (o be left to our legislative as- sembly. I am not aKempling (o discuss (he meriis or demei-i(s of (his case. T confess to you that I do not, feel compelenl to: and I do not impeai'h (he confidence of (his body wIumi I say (ha( T feel (ha( we are wasdiig (hue m a((i'mp(ing (o disi-uss (be merils or demerits of this proijositiou. If (his were a legislati\e assembly I would sil here and lislen w(ih t'adence to all this debale; bu( I do say wi(h a great tieal of feeling, and I belie\e I voici^ my cons(i(uency when I say that we are a((em[)(ing (o do (oo much in (In' way of legislndon in (his cons(itu(ion. T am asinnished lha( (here should he an atlempt made (o engraft in our cons(i(u(ion so much of tlii' s(a(u(e as it is now on (his s(a(u(e book. The Chaii- put the queslion on (he said amendmenl ol' llic gendeman ti-om Lewis it Clarke, and a vole being taken (he siunc was drclai-ed los(. The Chairman: The queslion is now on (he aineniliiienl olTcccil by IIh; gendeman from I^ewis iS: Clarke 'Mr. Toole . CDNSTITL'TIUNAL CONVE.NTKJ.N l.s«li Til The Cliair put [ho nupstion on the said amendment of tin- gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 11 as follows: No foreign c-orporation shall do any business in this state without having one or more places of business and an authoriz-ed agent, or agents in the same, u|ion whom process may be served: and no company or corporation formed under the laws of any othei' "OMntry. state or territory shall have or be allowed to exercise or enjoy within this state any greater rights or pri\ilegcs than those possesseri or enjoyed by corporations of the same or similar character created under the iaws of this state. There being no amendment to Section II. the Clerk read Section 12. as follows: Section 12. No street or other railroad shall be constructed with- in any city or town without the consent of the legal authorities having entrol of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street or other railroad. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I move to strike out Section 12. Thi^hWtionJsas seconded. Th>> Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Yel- lowstone. i!nd a division being called for. the same was declared lost by a vote of 20 to U".. The Clerk read Section 13 as follows: Sei'tion 13. The legislative as- sembly shall pass no law for the benefit of a railroad or other corporation or any individual or association of individuals, retrospective in its opera- tion, or wtiich niiposes oti the people of any comity or municipal s-'.hdivi- sion of the slate, a new liability in respect to transactions or considera- tions already passed. There being no amendment to section 13. the Clerk read Section 1 4 as follows: Section 14. .Any association or corporation, or the lessees or man- agers thereof, orgamze'l for the purpose, or any individual, shall have the right to construct ar.d maintain lines of telesi'aph or telephone within this state, and connect the same with other lines: and the legislative assembly shall bv general law of uniform operntion provide reasonable regulations to give full effect to this section. No telegraph or telephone company shall consolidate with or hold a controlling interest in the stock or bonds of any other telegraph or teleplnine company owning or having control of a com- peting line, or acquire by purchse or othei'wise any other competing line of telegraph oi' telephone. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow moved to strike out Section 14. The motion was seconded. Ihe Chair put the iiuestion on the said mntion. and a vote bejna taken, the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 15 as follows: Section 15: If any railroad, tele- graph, telephone^ express or other corporation, organized under any of the laws of this state shall consolidate by sale or otherwise with any rail- road, telegraph, telephone, express or other corporation organized under any of the laws of any other state or territory, or of the United States, tiie same shall not thereby become a foreign corporation, but the courts of this stale shall retain jurisdiction over that part of the corporate property with- in the limits of the state, in all matters that may arise, as if said consolida- tion had not taken place. There being no amendment to Section 15. the Clerk read Section 16. as follows: Section 16. It shall be unlawful for any person, company or cor poration to require of its servants or employes, as a condition of their em- ployment or otherwise, any contract or agreement whereby such person, company or corporation shall be released or discharged from liability or responsibility on account of personal injuries received by such ser\ ants or employes while in the service of such person, company or corporation by reason of the negligence of such person, company or corporation or th** agents or employes thereof; and such contracts shall be absolutely null and void. Mr. ,1. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I wish to recur to Section 1.".. In Section 15 the word "company" is omitted on line one, after the word "corporation."" I move to insert the word "company."' The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motinn. and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. 71-' PHOCEEDINCS AND riEUATES 'lh('ri> hf'iiit: no fiirthi'r aiin'tiilmi'iils to Si'ctious 15 or u;. the Clerk road Section 17. as follows: ii^eclioa 17. The legislative asseiii'hly shall noi pass any law peiniiltiiig the leasing or alienation of any franchise so as to re- lease or relieve I he franchise or pi'operty held thereiinder from any of the liabilities of th(> lessor or grantor, or lessee or grantei>, contracted oi- in- curred in the operation, use or enjoyment of such franchise or any of ils privileges. Thci-e being no aniendmi'iil Id Scrtion 17, the Clerk read Section 18. as follows: Section IS. The term "corpoialion" as used in this article shall be held and construed lo inckidc all associations and joint stock compan- ies having or exercising an\ of the powers or privileges of corporal ions not i)OSSP.ssed by individuals or partnerships: and all corporations shall have the right to sue and shall be subject to be sued in all c law. and (hat is just what this section pvoviiles in the amendment to strike out. "Dues fi'om pi'ivaie corpora- tions shall be seicui'ed by such means as may be prescribi>d by law." There is a motion to s(rike ou( (he residue — "but In no case shall any slockholder be individually liable in any amount ovei- or abov(> the amouni of s(ock owiH^d by him." Now. if the corporation is able (o pay. make (hem fiay. and if they r'an't (hen punish them under (he ciiniinal law. The oM saying is: ".\l[ that you can gel of a cat Is (he skin." The Chair' pul the question on the motion of the Licnlleman fi'om .Ti^f- fci'son (Mr. Br'ceri . and a vole being (aken. (he same was deciai'cd car'ried. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 713 There being no further amendments to Seetion 19, the Clerk read Sec- tion 20, as follows: Section 20. That no incorporation, stock company, person or association of persons in the State of Montana shall directly or indirectly combine, or form what is known as a trust,, or make any con- tract with any person or persons, corporation or stock company, foreign or domestic, through their stockholders, trustees, or in any manner what- ever for the purpose of fixing- the price or regulating the production of any article of commerce or of the product of the soil, for consumption by the people. That the legislature shall pass laws for the enforcement thereof by adequate penalties to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of the forfeiture of their property and franchises, or in case of foreign corporations, prohibiting them from carryuig on business in this state. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move to strike out Section 4. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: Now. Mi'. Chairman, I said a few mo- ments ago, I believe, that there has been incorporated in Proposition 31 a great deal that is already on our statute books, and I reaffirm what I said a few moments ago. This is one of the sections containing what I already find on page 726 of our statute book, which I wnsh to read. "At such election for trustees each stockholder shall have as many votes as the number of shares of stock held by him multiplied by the number of trustees to be chosen, and may cast all his votes for one candidate, or distribute them as he may see fit, and the persons having the greatest number of votes shall be trustees." Now. ^Ir. Chairman, T am opposed to incorporating in our constitution an irrevocable method by which an elec- tion shall be held. N\'hile our statutes have provided for an election in this manner, the experience of a few years may demonstrate that there is a better or more approved method, and I do not believe it is wise to adopt irrevocably such a method. Hence my motion. ]\Ir. Fields, of Park: I hope this motion will iirevail. I know at 'the present time of several different bodies that are on the verge of incorpora- tion that are delayed for I he simple reason that we have a law on our statute books which thfv would like, and F believe will at the coming Legislature, have changed, and if this is put in tlie constitution it will be impossible without a i-onsi itutional amendment. Everybody in the Terri- tory of Montana today who wishes to ineorporate in business, so far as my obser\ation goes, wishfs to go in under the head of a law that has bepn passed in >linnesota wherein it is madi' optiiinal in taking out incor- poration papers to vote the shareholders or the shares. At the present time. I know of one instance in the Territory of Montana. It has been running a year and a half, and it has proved a success, and I think where bodies of men form a company or corporation together and they come to an agreement that they will nut vote the shares but vote the shareholders, that there should be no law prohibiting them from so doing: and T hope that this motion made by the gentleman from Silver Bow will prevail, thereby not binding those people who are looking forward foi- a change m that law at the meeting of our next Legislature. Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I do not wish to interfere in any way with the iiroposition of the gentleman from Park. I would simply say this, that the method here provided foi' by the Legislature of Montana, as cited by my colleague, Mr. Rickards, is one that allows this optional method of ^'Oting. and that may be repealpd. Now, in the State of New York — for I happen to be interested there and know how matters are conducted th^re — those holding a ma.jority of the stock of any corporation or company organized under the laws of the State of New York have the absolute control of the Board of Directors and eleef every one of them; the minority can get no representatiim whatever: but by the rule now adopted by the Legislatui'e of Montana, and which is incorporated in the section of this article here, no manner of shutting out the minority representation upon any hoai-d of trustees exists. I believe in a minority representation. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: I wish to say that I believe in the minorit\ always ha\ing a voice in the management of its own affairs: neverthpless. 1 repeat as I said beforp. that I do not deem it wise in making fundamental law to fix irrevocably a method hy which stockholders shall be elected. It is already on our statute books, and I think the Legislative Assembly is as competent to deal with that statute as we are. and I am not sure but that in tlip light of future developmpnts they may bo more competent. 714 PH()(;EEI)r.\(iS AND DEBATES Tlic Cliaii- put. tlip qupslicin on tho mntion of thi' jjeiitlfMiiaii from Silvrr Bow, Mr. Rii'kards. ami (he same was dfclan-ii lost. Mr. Hprshlield, of Eewis & Clarko: Thi're is a little changi' there lliat f want f.o make. T send the motion to the Oiair. The Chairman: The genllr'nifln from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Hershfield, moves to strike out in line four the word "managers" and insert "trustees" — line tour of section four. The motion was seconded. The Cliair put the question on the said motion, and tln' same was declared carried. ' Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: I move to amend Section 3 by inserting after the word "constitution" in the Ihii'd line these words: "or wliicli may be hereafter incorporated." The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the sadd motion and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that tlie committee do now rise and report, with the recommendation that Proposition No, 3[ be adopted as amended, Tho motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN CONVENTION. I'resident Clark in Ibi' (_;hair. The convention was called lo order. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Presidenl. the Corninitlee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. ;il and have made some amendments thereto which are as follows: They have amended Section 6 in the manner herein recorded in writing, as follows: Add to Section 6 as follows: "Nor shall any officer of such raili'oad, express or other transportation company act as an officer of any other railroad, express or other transportation company owning or ha\ing control of a parallel or competing line". Section l,"J has been amended by adding the words "or company" after the word "cor]ioration". Section I'.t has been amended by striking out all after the word "law" in line two. Section 3 has been amended by insert inu after tlir word "constitution" in the second line the words "or which may be hi'reafter incorporated." Section 4 is amended by striking out of line 4 the word "managers" and in the other pla.ces in the same section where Ihe word occurs, and insei'ting in lieu thereof the word "trustees". The committee have directed their chairman to report back this article with tlie amendments staled and reconnnend that the amendments be adopted in convention. Mr. Eaton, of Park: 1 move that the ami'iidments spi'i-iflrd br adii|i|i'd. The molion was seconrled. The Chair put the question on Ihe molion o|' (he L:i'nlliMiiiui Irnin Park, and a vote being had. the same was declared carried. Mr, .1. K. Toole, of Lewis i.*t (^.larke: Mi'. Pi'esidenl. I wi-ili lo ofti'i- lb.- following amendments to the rules. The Pri'sident: The Chairman of Ihr Connnillee on Holes olfi'rs Ihe following amendments, which Ihe (Tli'rk will read. Tlii> Clerk read as follows: Amendm,ents to rub'S. Isl. It shall not he in oi'der to call the I'oll but once a day, ^aind then upon Ihe assi'inbling of the convention after an adjournment. 2nd. A call of the ayes and nays upon Itie final passage of any pro|]osilion inteniled tii l)e envbodieil in the constitution shall not be ni'cessar\ \ndess demanded liy a mi'mbei". .3rd. An amendment offered to any proposition in Committee of Ihi" \\'hole may be again presented in convenlion, but no debate shall bi' in oi-der Iheri'on without unanimous consent. Mr. Bni'leigbv of Custer: I wnidd like to ask llir ucnllrnian one question, if Ihe adoption of this rule as read liere wcml pi-eclude the possitJility of a call of the house. Mr, .J, K, Toole of Lewis i^ Clarke: It was designed .so. I liojie the mallei' will be [xislponril tor lui'lln'i' considi'ralioii until tomorrow morning. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 715 Mr. Burleigh uitil 8 P. M. Eight P. M. The convention was called to order by the President. The Clerk called the roll. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention? Mr. Keiniedy. cd' Missoula: The Committee of (he Whole desire to report their action on Proposition No. 24, Article on Municipal Corporations and Officers. The President: If there be no objection the report of the Comniittee of the Whole on Proposition No. 24 will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, your Committee of the Whole had under consideration Proposition No. 24. General File No. 24, Article on Municipal Corporations and Officers, and beg leave to report the same back to the convention, except such parls as have been referred, with the following amendments, which the committee recommend be adopted. Your conmiittee would state that in the amendmejits offered reference is to numbers of lines and sections as such as are in the printed bill. Strike out all id' Section 2 after the word "years" on line four: also strike out all words after the w'ord "vote" on line three up to and including the word "therefor" on line four, and insert in lieu thereof the words "at a general election on a proposition to remove the county seat, shall vote therefor." Strike out Section three. Amend Section four by adding thereto tlie following: "Provided that nothing in this section shall prevent the readjustment of county lines between existing counties." Strike out Sec- tion five. Section six. Section seven and Section eight. Strike out Sections nine and ten and substitute in lieu thereof the following: "In each county there shall be electeil three County Commissioners whose term of office shall be four years. A vacancy in the Board of County Commissioners shall be filled by appointment of the District Judge in which the vacancy occurs." Amend Section eleven by inserting after the word "taxes" on line three the words "Pi'ovided that the County Treasurer shall not hold his office for more than two consecutive terms." Also strike out the word "all" on line two. Strike out Section 12. Amend Section 13 by striking out the word "shall" in line one and insert in lieu thereof the word "may." Strike out Section 14. Your committee would fuilher reconunend that the following be recom- mended to the Committee of the \\'hole to be considered with the article on ordinances: "All county olficei-s in office at the time of the adoption of tills constitution, excei)t Prnliate .Judge, shall hold their respective offices until the expiralinn of the term for which they were elected." Also that Resolution No, (i, introduced by (ioddard. of Yellowstone, be referred to the same committee. Y'our committee wovdd further recommend that Resolution No. 18. introduced by Buford. and Resolution No. 9, introduced by Kennedy, and extract of |ii-opfisitinn introduced by Joy, and also Reso- lution No. 14 introduced bv Conrad, do not pass. (Signed' KENNEDY, Chairman. Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: I move that Proposition No. 24 as amendi'il and reiiorted back by the committee be adopted as part of the constitution of the State of Montana. The motion was secnniled. The President: The i-eport of the conmiittee should be disposed of. Mr. Middlelon. (d' Custer: I move you as an amendment that the report of the Committee of the Whole be amended by reinstating Sections seven and eight as in the printed copy. The President: The Chair would state to the gentleman from Custer (hat tlie first thing to do is to dispose of the report of the committee. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: My idea was to amend the report of the committee by reinstating those two sections. The President: The refiort should be received firsf. If there be no objection the report will be received 'and will be nriw open for amendment. 716 PIIOCEEDINOS AND DEBATES Tho amt'iuiiiH'iits offernl by thi> Committee of the Wiiolp must first be consiilerpd, and tliini any other amendments that may be proposed. Tlie Cleric read as follow,-;: Strike out all of Section 2 after the word "years" on line four; also strike out all woiiis after the w'ord "vrite" on line three up to and including the word "therefor" on line four and insert in lieu thereof the words "at a general eleetion on a proposition to remove the county seat, shall vole therefor." Mr. Fields, of Park: I nKive (he adoption of the ami'mlrnent. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion,, and the same was declared cariied. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out Section 3. Mr. Witter, of Beaverhead: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the motion and the same wa.s declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: .Amend Section four by adding thereto the following: "Provided that nothing in this section .shall prevent the readjustment of county lines between existing counties." Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I move its adoption. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said niotidii. and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Strike oul Section 5. Mr. Sargent, of Silver Bow: I move that tlie amendment be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said inolion. and a vote lieing taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Sti-ike out Section (i. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on tho said motion, and a vote being taken the same wbs declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out Sections seven and eight. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I move that the reiiorl be ailopled as to Section 7. The motion was secondeit. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, it seems to me that the constitution should pro\ide in some way or other that the Legislatiu'e should have the power to divide counties up into townships, districts, precinct, etc. Now, a great many matters of legislation have so far crept into the constitution, but it seems on the other hand that there has been a disposition during the last day or two to strike out matters as being legislation that really should remain, and I really believe that if the same disposition liad existed from the start that we would not have anything today but perhaps the pn^amble. Now, Section seven provides that the Legislative .\ssembly shall pi'ovide by law for the subdivision of the several counties of the State. Tt occurs to me I hat it is proper there should he a provision of that kind in the cimstitulion, and although some may say that it is legislation, and i.uidoubteiUy tln^ T^egjslature would have the power to do Ihat in the absence of constitulinna! pi-ovision, I think that it is wise that, those matters be touched upon in some way, and Ihat the re[iort of the Committee of the \Miole upon that proposition should not be adopted, and tliat Section stnim of the printed hill should remain. .Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: There is nothing clear(>r under the sui\ than that the powei' to legislate in regard to matters not inhibited by Ibis con- stitution exists with the people and their repi'csentatives in the Legisia ture. It is not necessary to interject anything of that kind into the consti- tution; Ihey have (he power now, and if there is nothing said about it they have unlimited power to diviile the coundes and tlu>ir State into such dislr'icts as they see fit. It is true that if it is put in there it would not I'ob Iheni of that power, bul the power exists here to all intents and puriioses in the people to make such internal ari-angements as they see fit. provided they do not conflict with the constitidion of the I'nited States. The President: The question is upon striking out S(>ction 7. The Chair put the said iiuestion, aiui a Mite being taki'ii. the same was tieclared carried. The President:" The (piestion is now on thi! repoiM nf the committee to strike out Section 8. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 ' 717 Mr. Midclleton. of Custor: Now. although it is true, as has been sug- gested divers and sundry times by my colleague from Custer, that unless these (lowers are inhibited they do remain in the Legislature and exist there, in Section eight tliere is a certain limitation as to the number of classes that cities and towns shall be divided into, and it occurs to me that the Legislature should be prohibited from providing nwre classes of cities and to%\nis than is mentioned in this section. (Reading) "The number of such classes should not exceed The power of such classes should be limited by general law." Now. both of those paragraphs are limitations and are proper matters of fundamental law. I do not desire to take up the time of the convention., but it occurs to me that we have got to sweeping matters out too much, and that that section should remain. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I think there is somebody going to come after us in the legislative halls of the State of Montana — I hope so — and I would remind this con\enti in favor of my original motion, that the section be stricken oid. .\nd I want to say, Mr. President, before I take my seat, and then I am done with the suh.ject and shall vote in accordance with my vie^^•s, that T believe that all that we give the niinority stockholders by the adoption of this section they already have midei' the law as it now exists. What I am opposed to is any aitempt on the i)arl of this conslitidional convention to make an ironclad rule that after developments and experience may pro\e it most radically wrong. Now. I am not prepared to say at this time, and do not wish to be understood as .saying, it is wrong now; but I do say that we are learning all the time and profiling by experience, and later experience may prove that there is a better way than the way suggested by this sec- tion; therefore my motion, and I do hope it will prevail. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I call the attention of the gentleman to the fact that he has sti-icken out one word too many. The sentence should begin "In all elections." .Mr, ^^'hitehill of Deer Lodge: I aci'epf that amendment. CONSTrrUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 723 The President: The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge to strike out the first eight words in line one. The Chaii' put the question, and the vote being taken, the same was declared lost. The President: The question is now upon the motion of the gentle- man to strike out the section. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: There seems to be a little misun- derstanding. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I iiTove to reconsider the question on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis «.t Clarke to strike out "managers" and insert "trustees." I will state at the time that question was put several of us understood we were voting on striking out the whole section. The President: There was an amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to insert the word "trustees" in place of "managers." That motion was voted upon and lost. The gentleman from Missoula moves to reconsider the vote by which this amendment was lost. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on tlie reconsideration, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: The question now stands upon the amendment and it can be renewed. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis and Clarke renewed his motion. The President: The gentleman moves that the word "managers" in three places, lines two^ four and seven, be stricken out and the word "trustees" be inserted in lieu thereof. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said amendment and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: Now, the question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow to strike out section four. Mr. Middleton of Custer: It seems to me that this section should be stricken out. and for the reason that in the matter of corporations there is no classification, and as has been well suggested by the gentleman from Deer Lodge (Mr. Toole'' there are certain classes of corporations that desire to be in a position where they can either vote their shares of stock or vote by the person owning stock, such as building associations. Now. if this section remains, it relates to all classes of corporations that may ever at any time be organized in the State of IMontana. and T do not see any necessity for it. There is a provision on the statute books now as to cer- tain classes of corporations which does not. as I recollect it. relate to that character of corporations, such as building associations, and the presumption is that that statute will remain until there is reason to repeal or modify or change it. Now, in view of that fact it will seem that this fundamental proposition ought not to be incorporated; that there may be certain classes of cor- porations created by statute or organized, or there may be such a classi- fication made by statute as would render this provision a bar, or rather it might stand in the way of creating corporations of a certain character. It is pure legislation on its face and ought, not to go into this provision. T hope the section will be stricken out. The President: The question is on the adoption of the amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I hope that the section will not be stricken out. I cannot for the life of me conceive of a corporation that can get along without a board of trustees. Now, a board of trustees may be three or it mav be three hundred. If the entire corporation wishes to run the concerns of it and each one to vote, then they can all he trustees: but the corporation must provide for trustees, and more particularly the special corporations mentioned by the gentli-man— building associations — and this particular provision or inhibition in this section applies more to that class of corporations than any other: it provides that a minority in a building association or in any corporation of that kind shall have a representation upon the board. I believe that this is legislation certainly, hut it is such legislation as we have had and have proven is good, and I cannot conceive how it can be changed for thr better; so that it seems to me it should be placed in the constitution. Mr. Middleton of Custer: If this provision remains, how can a corpora- tion, if it see fit to do so, vote its stockholders instead of its stock"? 734 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. GoUins of Cascade: A corporation can vote its stockholders instead of its stock when it provides that its trustees shall equal ils stockholders, whether they be three or three hundred. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I would like to know how you would vote for trustees or directors of a corporation when they have no stock. Mr. Collins of Cascade: You cannot, certainly. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Well, now. there are certain classes of corporations that have no stock — corporations of Odd Fellows, church cor- porations, etc. How are you going to do with those? Mr. Collins of Cascade: Church corporations and benevolent society organizations are incorporated always by trustees, and those trustees are the same identically as the trustei's of industrial organizations, and the trustees manage the affairs of that corporation. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Does not this provide for industrial corpor- ations? Mr. Collins of Cascade: Certainly: and under that broad term you would include those other institutions. Every corporation must be gov- erned by trustees, and the minority in every corporation, whether it be a church corporation or whatever else, ought to be represented upon that board of trustees. So I believe this section should remain. Mr. Hershficld of Lewis & Clarke: How is the minority going to get representation in a board where there are no shai'cs of slock? Mr. Collins of Cascade: By property. There are no shares but there is property, and those persons representing that iiroperty should run it. I cannot conceive of any corporation that can run without trustees, and the power which creates those trustees, if there is a minority in that power, should insist upon the right of selecting some of those trustees; and there is always a minority in a matter of that kind, whether it is a church or- ganization or what not. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I certainly hope this motion will pi-evail and that this section will be stricken out. I do not think it ought to go into the constitution. I do not feel like my friend from Cascade; I think we should leave this for the future legislatures to do. It is on the statutes now and I presume it is a good law. If it suits the people it will remain there, and if it doesn't suit them it will give the people a chance to change it. This law will suit a great many now, but there may be other people here- after who would like to incorporate and start different institutions which under this present law they could not. I certainly will favor the motion to strike out. and think it is a good motion. I think this can safely be left to the legislature and they will certainly suit the people better. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I do not desire to cut off debate on this matter, and it is the first time I have moved the pervious question, but I think the discussion has gone far enough, and I therefore move the pre- vious question. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Gal- latin, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: The question now is upon the motion of the gentlemnn from Silver Bow to strike out Section 4. Mr. Fields of Park called for the ayes and nays on the quest inn. There being no ob.jection, the Clerk called the I'oll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Burleigh, Burns, Edward: Cardwrll, Cnriirnlcr, Chess- man, Courtney, Dyer, Fields, Gaylord, Goddard, Hartman. Hershfield, Ho- gan Kanouse, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Knowles, Maginnis. Mid(ilet(>n, Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson, Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Toole. .J. R., Witter— 29. Nays: Aiken,, Bickford, Browne. Buford, Bollard, Burns, .\. ,J.; Burns, A. F.: Callaway, Cnuby, Collins, Coni'ad, Cooper. Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Gibson. Gillette, Gi'aves, TIammond, Haskell, Hatch, Hickman, Hobson. •loyes, Kohrs,, I,oud, Marshall, Marion, Havger, Myers, Rotwilt, Slapleton, Toole, .Jos. K.: Warren. Watson. Whilehill. Winston, Mr. President— ^8. Absent: Brazleton, Eaton, .Tov, Luce, McAdow, Mufh, Parherrv, Web- ster—8. The motion to strike out Section 4 was declared lost. The President; The convention will now proceed to the considera- tion of the other amendments. CONSTITITIONAL CONVEXTTON iaS9 725 The Clerk read as follows: Amend Seclion three (3' bv inserting after the word "constitution" in the second line the words "or which may bo hereafter incorporated." The amendment, on motion, duly seconded, was declared adopted. The President: This leaves all of the amendments reported by the committee of the whole disposed of . Are there any other amendments? Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move the proposition he placed on its final passage: The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the rules be suspended and Proposition No. 31 placed upon its final passage. The motion was put and carried. The President; The question now is upon tin' adoption of Proposition No. 31 as amended. The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. When the name of Mr. Middleton of Custer was reached the gentleman rose: Mr. .Miildleton of Custer: I desire to explain mv \ote on this mat- ter. The President: The Chair announced today that no interruption would be permitted during roll call, except by unanimous consent. Mr. Middleton of Custer: That would be a new rule to me. The President: It is a rule adopted by all parliamentary bodies; it is a rule that the Chair holds to be correct, and the gentleman will not be heard except by unanimous consent. If there be no objection the gen- tleman from Custer will be heard. Mr. Middleton of Custer: This article 31, Mr. President, relates to all classes of corporations outside of municipal. In my judgment a corpora- tion should stand on identically the same footing with an individual, that although it is a creature of the law it should have the same rights, and be subject to the same liabilities as an individual. In my opinion there are limitations and inhibitions in many of the sections of this article that are absolutely unjust and mifair, not only to one class of corporations l)ut to many kinds of corporations that I can conceive of. On the olhec hand. Mr. President, the liabilities, in my judgment, of a corporation should be the same as those of an individual partner in a partnership. When per- sons purchase stock in a stock company, a corporation, they should indi- vidually be liable for the indebtedness of the concern; and in view of those facts, that it is in the first place unfair to the corporations by placing limitations and inhibitions on them that are absolutely iron-bound and en- tirely different from those that are placed upon any other class, either of individuals or companies, and on the other hand exempting them from the liabilities of individuals and partnerships, my vote will be no. The vote s tood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickford, Breen, Browne. Buford. BuUard. Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. J.: Burns, Edward; Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter. Cauby Chessman, Collins, Conrad. Cooper. Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Dyer, Gaylorrl. Gibson, Gillette. Goddard. Graves, Hammond, Hartman. Haskell, Hatch, Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson, Hogan, ,Ioyes, Kanouse, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Knowles. Kohrs, Lourl, Maginnis. Marion, Marshall. Mayaer, Mitchell. Myers. Ramsdell. Reek. Rotwitt, Rickards. Sargent. Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. K.: Toole, J. R.; Warren, Watson, Whitehill, Win- ston. Witter, Mr. President — 63. Nays: Fields. Middleton — 2. Absent: Brazleton, Eaton. .Tov. Luce, Mc.Vdow, Muth. Parberrv, Web- ster—8, The President: The motion to adopt Proposition No. 31 is carried, and the proposition will be referred to the engrossing committee. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move we do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion, and the vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The convention stood adjourned until Wednesday, August 7th, 1889, at 10 o'clock A. M. * 726 PHOCEEDINGS A.\D DEBATES TWKM Y-KKillTH DAY. \\>(lnes«l;i\, .\ii<|iisl 7Mi. 1SS9. The fonvi'iitioii was called U> urder by the President at 10 A. M. The Clerk called the roll. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge sent a proposition to the Clerks desk. The President: The Clerk will read the Proposition of the gentleman from Deer Lodge. The Clerk read as follows: l^roposition No. 37. Construction of words. That wherever in this constitution the word "May" occurs the same shall be construed to be directory, and wherever the word "shall" occurs the same shall be construed to be mandatory. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention concerning this proposition? Mr. Robinson of Deer I,odge: f move the adoption of the proposi- tion. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question en the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was daclared carried. A member called for a division on the question. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: Before we vote on that proposition or resolution, it seems to me it is not clear enough. It says, wherever the word "shall" occurs, and that is very sweeping. It will occur several times in the constitution and I don't know that this convention is prepared to say it shall be mandatory. I would like the gentleman to explain just what his resolution does mean. If it applies only to what the legislative assembly shall do, I think we are prepared to vote upon it. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: It is a construction of words so as to avoid any ambiguity in the sense of the convention where it uses these words. It seems to me it is necessary to put this in. The President: A division is called for upon the question. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin called for the reading of the resolution. The Clerk read the resolution. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move its reference to the Judiciary Com- mi-ttee. The motion was seconded. The President: If there be.no dbji'i'lion it will ho so referred. The Chair desires to state that he overlooked tlie fact that a special committee on the memorial introduced by the gentleman from Silver Bow is to be announced and desires a little further time. The committee will be an- nounced during the day. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I move you that the convention re- solve itself into conmiiltee of the whole for the purpose of further con- sidering Proposition No. 18. General File No. 17. It was made a special order for this time. The motion was seconded. The Cliaii' put the question on the motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: While we had under consideration this proposition, Mr. Hershfield of Lewis and Clarke was chairman of the committee of the whole, and he will now be called upon to resume the chair. IN COMMITTEE OF^ THE WHOLE. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke in the chair. The committee was called to order. The Chairman: Under the rules, on the 27th of last month we had under consideration Section 2 of Proposilion No. 18. What is the further pleasure of the committee on that subject? Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I rise to reiu'w the motion which I had submitted at the time the committee rose. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis ^- Clarke. Mr. Maginnis, offers the following amendment to Proposilion No. 18, Section 2. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I object. That Section 2 has been adopted by the committee. The Chairman: What is the objection CO.NSTITUTIUNAL CO.WE.MIDN KSSil 727 Mr. \\arrpn of Silver Bow: Section 2 has been adopted in the commit- tee of thi" whole and is no! subject to amendment. The Chairman: If the Chair is not in error. I think that section haa not been acted upon. .Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I ask for the reading of the minutes. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman, when this committee rose. I was on my feet and made the motion which you now tiold in your hand, when the gentleman from Silver Bow iMr. Warren) rose and inter- rupted me. The Chairman: I think the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Warren) will find that to be the case. I will further state to the gientleman from Silver Bow that there are no minutes of the proceedings for tlie reason that the chairman of the committee stated to the president of the conven- tion that progress had been made on this matter and that the committee wanted further time. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I ask to have the amendment read. The Chairman: The Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read as follows: .Amend Proposition No. 18, Section 2, by striking out in line two the words "at its third regxilar session," and strike out in lines nine and ten. Section 2, all the words of the proviso after the words "general election." Mr. .^L'^ginnis of Le^^^s & Clarke: I ask to have' the section read, with the aniendment, as it would stand if adopted. Mr. CoIHtis of Cascade:: I ask for a division of the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke iMr. Maginnis). The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers an amend- ment, on which the gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins) calls for a di- vision. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Before the amendment is placed before the house I would like to have the section read as it would be with my amendment. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 2. The Legislative Assembly- shall have no power to change or locate the seat of government of tlic State, but shall after the adoption of this constitution provide by law for submitting the question of the permanent location of the seat of gov- ernment to the qualified electors of the State at the general election then ne.xt ensuing, anti a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said election shall be necessary to determine the location thereof. Said Legislative .\ssembly shall also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election the question of choice between the two places for which the highest number of \otes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like manner to the qualified electors of the State at the next general election." Mr. iMaginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: A few words befoi'e I yield the floor, merely explanatory of the amendment. It will be .seen that the amend- ment leaves out any reference to the first regular session of the Legislature, because it provides that it shall be at the first election after the adoption of the constitution. The words "first regular session" are not necessary, because the continuation of the text says that at the first general election after the adoption of the constitution the question shall be submitted to the peoiile of the State for their vote. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: My only object, Mr. Chairman, in bringing this matter of striking out the word "third" and inserting "first" up, is that the people of this State shall have an opportunity to vote upon the location of the seat of gcnernment. and the sooner it is brought to a vote the sooner the matter will be settled. If I understand the amendment, at any time we can hold the Legislature down and keep them from passing that law. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I am willing to accept the gentle- mans amendment, but if he will listen to me a moment he will see that it is unnecessary. The amendment reads "At the general election next ensuing." The Chairman: You accept the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow? Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: Yes sir. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I would like to state the reasons briefly that actuated the committee. I do not believe, Mr. Chairman and gentle- men, that anvone will rise to his feet on this floor and claim that it is an opportune time to permanently locate the capital of Montana. This matter was discussed in the committee room. We have seen within the 728 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES last five years a town spring up to a population of five or six thousand people where five or six years ago there was not an inhabitant, and we believe it is not only likely but altogether prob'kble that there will be within the next five or six years another town and possibly a second, and possibly a third town spring up. So that we believe we had better wait a few years before we permanently lorate the capital of Montana. And it was for this reason that the committee thought it best in locating the capital temporarily to leave it there until the expiration, say, of edght or ten years. Now, you will notice that if at the third regular session the Legislative Assembly shall take up this matter and submit it to the vote of the people, that will be the year of 189.T. We have further provided that if no place receive a ma,)ority of all the votes cast, that the two places receiving the highest number of votes shall be resubmitted at the following general election, and the place receiving the highest number of votes shall be determined upon as the permanent capital of Montana. Now. Mr. Chairman, I do not believe that when we consider that after the adop- tion of this constitution it is altogether likely that there will be a large immigration into Montana, for if we do not have this experience it will be unlike that of any other State after the adoption of its constitution — it is a wise thing to do. We confidently expect a large influx of immisra- tion and we just as confidently expect that there will be somewhere — we cannot tell where — but we believe on the west side, two or three towns that within the next eight or ten years, and that are imknown today, will have a population of from .^,000 to 8.000 people. Therefore, I do not believe it is best that the Legislature at its first regular session shall submit this matter to the vote of the people. The time is not ripe: it is not the opportune time for the settling of the pei'manent location of the capital of Montana. For that reason. I hope this amendment will not prevail and that the report as it came from your committee will prevail. T think the more we consider this the better reasons you vAW see for it. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I desire to have this question presented now in the amendment and in two separate propositions. One is in relation to fixing the time when the Legislature shall provide for the location, when the location shall take place. The other is. striking 'out the proviso in the last part of the section, which leaves the matter of the temporary capital without any disposition. The resolution introduced by the gentlenian from Lewis & Clarke contains two separate propositions. and I ask for a division of the question: first, on the proposition to make the first Legislature provide for the location, and second upon strikins out the proviso. The Chairman: The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke I'Mr, Maginnis^ striking out in line iwo the words "at its third resular session" and amended bv the gentleman from Silver Bow to read "at its first regular session". The committee will vote on the insertion of (he word "first" instead of "third". Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Is an amendment in order at present? The Chairman: Not now. A division has been called for. The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and the same was declared carried by a vote of '12 in the affirmative to 13 in the negative. Mr. .T. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: T want to say a word in relation to striking o>it this proviso, and that is this: T would like to ha\e the question remain where it is now. It is a hard matter in the Committee of the Whole to get a correct expression, and if this proviso is stricken out now there is no doubt an amendment will he offered in con\ention and we will go through the same routine. Tt seems to me. in order to facilitate business.: it is well to let this remain. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis it Clarke: How does the proviso read now Mr. ,T. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: Tt I'eads as it was reporterl bv the Committee of the Whole. There was a blank here, or a vacancy, which has not been filled. It seems to me that the committee saw fit the other day to insert the word "Anaconda": so now it I'eads as follows: "That the seat of government shall be and remain at the city of Anaconda." It is ample time to facilitate the work of the convention to let it remain as it is. The Chairman: The question now is on the second rlivision of the amendment as offered by the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke. Those who are in faMir of ttie adoption of the amendment say aye. The Chair declared the am(>ndmeiif lost. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 729 Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Loclgr: I move the adoplion of tlii^ section as amended. Mr. Collins, of CasL-ade: I offer an aniemlmeut. I mo\e that in line two of the printed copy you insert "at its sei'(md regular sessii>n." The amendment was seconded. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodf;i>: I understand the committee have adopted the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow County, provid- inp that the Legislature shall provide at its first session— at the next general election after the first session of the Legislature. Now. that has been adopted and pa.ssed on. and I don't understand it can be changed except l3y reconsidering the vote. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: Before the Chair decides that matter. I wish to state the proposition. A motion was made that the words "at its first regular session" be stricken out. That motion was carried; there was no motion to insert a word: so that under all parliamentary usages my motion to amend is in order. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: My understanding was that the amendment offered by the gentleman fi'om Silver Bow was accepted. The word "first" fills the blank. .Mr. Collins, of Cascade: But e\ en if that proposition is true, I claim that while the question is under consideration it may be amended as many times as amendments are germane to the proposition, and my motion to amend by insertinc "two" has never been before this committee and is certainly in order. It is only reasonable that it should be if the Chair should even decide that it should not be. It will be in order before the convention, hut now is the time to bring the matter up. Mv. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I rise to speak on the amendment I offered, the amendment striking out the proviso because there was no ni'cd of a proviso. The Organic Act and the laws of the State of Montana fix the seat of government of this Territory until it shall be removed. There has been no popular demand for its removal, no petition, no meet- ing of the people, no agitation to remove the capital. The members of the con^■ention who came here were not elected on that issue, nor was that question at all discussed as beai'ing on their election. The Congress that framed this Enabling Act under wtiich we are acting never contem- plated that the question should arise in this convention. It was my pleasure to sit the other day with five or six gentlemen, members of Congress, all of whom had voted for this Enabling Act, and every one of them was astonished that the convention should assume that it had any jurisdiction over this capital question other than to commit it to the Legislature and the people. They are all sitting in Territories where questions similar to this will arise. The seat of government of Washing- ton is at Olympia, a little town on the extreme outskirts of the Territory, and the very first act of its Legislature will be to remove that capital and fix the permanent seat of government of the State of Washington. But it never entered into the minds of onr sister convention sitting in Washington Territory that they should assume jurisdiction of this matter and remove the territorial seat of government, or do anything else except pro\ide that the seat of government of the SInte should Im^ submitted by the Legislature to the vote of tlie people. In both North and South Dakota the place for the capital has been a burning question. But in neither of the conventions of the two Territories has it been assumed that they had control of the seat of government, or any authority to fix either a permnmmt or temporary seat of government. Why should we go beyond them? Why do we do this which our neighbors ilo not presume to do? There is no reason given. There is no reason to be given. There is no reason why this vexed question should be interjected into mw canvas, or our campaign this fall. Why has the apple of discord been thrown into this convention? We have claimed Montana to be equal in public spirit, to be abreast in patriotism and good citizenship with our sister Territories. \\'liy. when they go on and confine themselves to the duties for which they were called together, tile ihities of framing an organic act to be subriiitted to the people, and confine themselves within their proper limits,, wliy do we, who have claimed to be surierior to them all. allow this apple of discord to be flung into our midst and go outside of our province to discuss extraneous questions. We were here as harmonious as con^•entions reasonably may be. On all these questions that came up we have had our differences or our dissensions. None of us has hail our way entirely. Some of us were voted flnWTi on matters that we believeii tii be very essential to jiopular 730 I'HOC.KKDlN'iiS AM) I iKHATES government. There is scarcely a man in tln' convention wlin lia-; not been voted down on some proposition in whicli lie believed. But \vi' all submitled to the result. Going on in this harmonious way. why is this thing thrown in here? Shall we resolve this convention, fi'nmcd to form a law tor the people, into a convention of jobbers, intent only on dividing up the .spoils? Will that add to our dignity, to the place (hat we will have in the history of this State, before our people? Or shall we. con- fining ourselves to the work for which we were sent here, properly provide that this question shall be submitted to the only tribunal that ought to decide it — the people of the Territory? (Applause in the gal- leries) It is a question, my friends, whether we have the power to do it. But even if we had the power, shoidd we abuse if? If this were sub- mitted even as a separate proposition, the people would have the right to vole on it. But you are atteiii|ding to embody it and crystallize it in the constitution, leaA'ing to (hem no issue except to vote against (he constitution or to vote against their most cherished feelings in (his mattei'. I ask you. my friends, is it righ(^ to make the constitution a pack horse to carry everybody's scheme through this territorial election? I'Applause in the galleriesi I appeal to you as a matter of equity and justice, if that is a right and a proper thing to do. The Legislature of this State will certainly have intelligence enough to frame a law to submit this ()uestion to the people. It will be submitted to the people of Montana: it will be discussed in all its bearings: (be propositinn advanced by my fi'iend fi'oni Silver Bow (Mr. Rickardsl will be taken into consideration. The growth of towns and mines on the west side will be discussed: the magnificent valleys that lie to our north, with their incoming population, will lie a part nf the discussion. We will see the new empii'es that are to be built up in those valleys. The people that come into the Yellow- stone coiuitry, the people that come into all the various portions of this great State, and the proper and convenient center for (he transaction of the business of this great State, having been discussed by all the people of the State, will be settled at the polls in accordance with the privilege's of freemen. At this point the demonstrations of applause in the galleries became pronounced and irrepressible. Mr. Luce, of Oallatin. requested that the sergeanl-at-arms be instructed to preserve order. The Chair announced that the galleries would be cleared if the demonstrations did not cease. The speaker continued: When that time shall come, Mr. Chairman, and not before, for we do not desire to insert the name of Helena in this constitution, when that time comes, the constituents that I represiMit here will be prepared to present their claims, not to th(> Legislature, not to any convention, but to all the people of the State of Montana. They will endeavor to show that this point is central and as convenient as any other: (hat the (ra^•el from the Yellowstone to the Missoula country passes (hrough it, and finds it a central puint: that the travel fi'oin Great Falls and Choteau to Butte and Dillon, and the towns below, pass through it, and find it a central point in their journey: that it is (he piAotal puint of the population of IMonfana: that it can be reached more conveniently than any other place. Gimtlenren talk about four or five trains I'uiuiing out of their towns. Twenty-one daily passenger trains run out nf the city of Helena, and fifty will run out of it before two years are enden. I trust, my friends, that you will be governed by a wiser and a higher sense of duty that has been advortated by some, f trust that we will remove this whole question li-om out of our deliberations — that we will throw this apple of discord over the fence — that we will proceed with the woi'k for which we weri; sent here — that we will make a constitution that will l)e accepted by the people of Montana, and that will create heart-burnings among none: and thus liavin:-' done o>u- duly to those who sent us here, we will go to our 732 PR()r,KF,ni>;(;s .\\n df.rates homes blessod with Ihf c-onscinusness that wo havp doiip it well, and that the people nf this territory now and forever will I'ise up ami call us blessed. (A[iplause' Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: 1 do not wish to take ijail in IIh' liiscus- sion here this morning on the capital question, but I believe there is one point here that po.«sibly may be ovei-looked in the gener-al s(-ramhle for this place. As the gentleman who has just taken his seat has said, I believe that when we were sent here to discharge the duties which devolved upon us, that the question of the location of the capital hail no place in the minds of our constituents: and 1 believe that in settling this question, if it is to come up and the location is to be determined on, that we should submit it to the voters of this territory as soon as pos- sible. I for one feel the gravi' respon.sibility that is resting upon me to vote upon this important (piestion this morning, and although I feel that the moti\e.s of the gentleman fi'om Cascade and from Silver Bow are probably worthy ones and that the gentleman from Cascade no doubt hopes that in the near future the broad and fertile prairies of his own county will be populous and that railroads will intersect that country and that Cascade may have a fair show in the settlement of the question, and although the gentleman from Butte possibly aspires to the same mo- tives and hopes, and although in my own country the development of the near future may warrant the same aspirations and hopes, I believe that we are not justifii'd in allowing this question to stretch out indefinitely. .\s I have said, the people in my section of the countiy did not contemplate this issue when I was elected, anil I feel that it is a great responsibility, and I feel further that in providing that this shall be submitti'd to the people at the first election after the adoption of this constitution, that if I have erred in this matter I shall at least be taking the right step to allow that injustice to be righted as soon as possible. Mr. Luce of Gallatin. In speaking upon this proposition 1 will venture to say that the Chair will have no difficulty in preserving order in the galleries. (Laughter). I do not expect to he smothered by the perfume of beautiful flowers scattered upon my head by the ladies and gentlemen of Helena. (Ijaughter). Nevertheless I hope that I may ha\e the pcivi- lege of making such feeble remarks as I may see fit to make upon this occasion, cei'tainly without any undue infkn^nce. I agree with my friend, Mr. Maginnis,, in nearly all of his remarks in relation to this great capital city of Helena, its strides in progress and the great railroad center that has been made here and the inducements that have been held out by its millionaires and those who represent other millionaires to invest their money here and make a large city. I am with him on that proposition. Helena is a prosperous place. It is not a hoggish place, as some gentle- man here the other day said. It is a generous community: it is a great people. Comparatively speaking, it is a great city, that is, compared per- haps with Glendive and Bozeman, it is a metropolis, (Laughter . Com- pared with New York, however, it may be a country village. Notwith- standing all that. I say, taking its surroundings and all the circumstances, it is a great and comparatively a powerful city. .\nd these great slates- men that I have conversed with, like unto my worthy friend over there (alluding to Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke'^ who has lately conversed with statesmen from the east, have told me that one of the greatest mis- takes that a state ever could make would be to place a capital in the great metropolis of the state, where it was surrounded by all of these influences, some of which we have seen break out in the g;dl(>ries here this morning (Laughter'i. that would almost crush any othei- country pumpkin but one like myself that has the adamantine cheek to get up in the face of it anrl make the remarks that I am about to make now (Laughter and applause). The influence of these great corporations that have been spoken of by my friend. Mr. Maginnis — the influence of these millionaires who can build cities all over the territory, will be felt by the legislature of the State of Montana if the capital he permanently located here. Now that is a subject of great consideration for mv friend who spoke last before me. He seems to have been somewhat criished by it himself. Now. sir, I want to enter upon another proposition. I think I have said all that is necessary for me to say in behalf of Hidena. I believe in her. She has more variiMl industries, more enteri)rises, than anv other citv in the territory of Mcnitana today. Now. down in our lit- tle counlv of' Gallatin the principal industries are agricultural. Around about Helena we have agriculture. If we go over on the west side into CONSTITLTIUNAL CONVENTION lASO 733 the great county of Silver Bow. the principal industry is mining; but we have that industry in the county of Lewis & Clarke. .Vnil so I may go on. This county probably has a greater variety of industries, a greater variety of influences and perhaps a larger number of millionaires and representatives of millionaires than any other county in the terri- tory. Now. if that is the reason for establishing the capital here, I do not understand it. Put it in some quiet places where your nostrils are not forever offended with dust, and where you are not in the great danger of breaking your necks in the winter time. Laughter . Take it., for heaven's sake, where you can see green fields once in a while and flowing streams of water. Put it over at Bozeman laughter among an honest set of people that I venture to say will never undertake to have any undue in- fluence over any great statesman that may be elected either to the Sen- ate or to the House of Representatives id' the Legislature of the State of Montana. We have everything there that is suitable, you know, for a capital. As I said, we raise the finest potatoes in the Territory of Mon- tana: and what is better for the intellect of a great statesman than fine potatoes'? Laughter . Then again, those people over there arp educated and refined and. although not all of us are millionaires, we have some, that is to say. we have one. 'Laughter . \\'e are noted for having the best schools today in the territory, ^^'e have fine schools, beautiful ladies, and some intelligent men: we make an exception of those that have been sent to this convention. (Laughter . Now there is a point that the state might be proud to erect the finest buildings, and buildings that would be worth all the generosity of the millionaires of Helena and of Butte and of Anaconda and Deer T^odge. But there is something that is quite mis- leading in the remarks of my worthy fiiend from Lewis & Clarke. He thinks that this is no time or placp for the naming of any city or town for the temporary locationo of the seat ol" government of this state. There. I think, is where the gentleman makes his fatal mistake. Every- thing else that he said I heartily concurred with, except that Helena is the place for the capitol. Laughter . Now. I would ask the gentleman, and I would ask this convention, where would your next legislature meet? AVhy. Mr. Maginnis would have you understand that it would meet where it has ever since they dragged it away from Virginia City — in the City of Helena. By what authority would it meet there? Let us read a little. Section 1445 of what is known as the Organic Act provides as follows: "The members of the legislative assembly of Montana and Idaho Terri- tories shall each receive — " No that is not it. Laughter "The seat of government when once fixed by the ;^'ipvernor and legislative assenibly nf Idaho and Montana respectively shall not be at any time changed except by an act of .such assembly for each territory respectively, duly passed and apiiroved. after due notice, at the first general election thereafter by a majority of the legal votes cast on that question."" Now. then, f understand that the seat of government for the Territory of .Montau;i has been fixed at Helena. That is all right. l"he seat of government for the State of Montana has not been fixed, either temporarily or perma- nently, at any place. Gentlemen say here that they do not come from their constituents with this proposition — they had no instruction from the voters in relation to this proposition. Nor do I take it had the.v any in- structions in relation to any particular proposition. For instance, we have made a material change in the judiciary of Montana, and we have provided for the removal of probate judges. I didn't come here with that propo- sition, nor instructed upon that proposition; and the argument seems to be that before we can take any action here in this convention upon any such proposition, it must first be sub- mitted to the people to say whether they w-ant it or not. They sent us here to frame a constitution, and I vmdertake to say that vuiless there is named some place for the temporary seat of government for the State of Montana, there is no place at which the legislature can meet: there is no place for the meeting of your supreme court. This seat of government is for the Territory of Montana. When this constitution that we are en- deavoring to frame, and which I hope and pray we may get through with before the general election that is ordered by the Enabling .\ct 'laughter > — we expect in this constitutional convention to do everything that shall put a state into motion that shall make one of the severeign states of this Union, and in order to have a sovereign state, that state must have a seat of government, and that seat of government must not be going around upon wheels from .Anaconda to Bozeman. and from Bozeman to Glendive, and from Glendive to Great Falls, and from Great Falls back to Helena 734 PROCEEDINGiS AND DEBATES again. There must be some jilace named in this constitution for the tem- porary seat of government at least: noljotly proposed here to make a permanent seat of government anyway: it is simply a temporary seat of government until the people ran be heard upon tliis proposition and let them locate it. I say, with all due regard to the astonishment of the ereat statesmen of the East that my friend, Mr. Maginnis. has talked with, that they are mistaken if they think that this convention should not name the temporary seat of government. Would you have your leg- islators wandering around, part of them going to the city where it is now temporarily located — I ha\e forgotten the name of it — Anaconda 'laugh- ter , and part of them going to Bulti', some of them coming over here to Helena, and most of them going to Bozenian, because it is the prettiest place to go to. Whei'c woulii your legislature be? Why, it would be spread all over the State of Montana. You could never find it or get it back, or to enact any laws at all. I do say with all respect to tlie advice of these statesmen from the East, that they are mistaken, and I say if Washington Territory has not provided for a temporary seat of government it is the grandest blunder that was ever made in any constitutional convention on earth. Now, all that is provided in this Enabling Act that the gentle- man spoke of, is in Section 4. That the delegates to the convention selected as provided in this Act shall meet at the seat of government in eacli of said Territories, except the deb'gates from South Dakota," etc. That is all. They meet at the seat of government. That means something, because we have a seat of government for the Territory of Montana, and we know where to go to. But if we shoukl provide hi're. instead of naming any ]ilace for the temporary seat of government — if we should provide that the legislature sliould meet at the seat of government of the State of Montana, I would like to ask my learned friend over there where they would meet No, this thing nuist be met. Disagreeable as it may seem, it must be met. Now, I undertake to say in reply to my friend from Silver Bow. that it is not altogether necessary to wait for new towns to grow up in order that we may fake one of these new towns for the seat of government: for it appears that there are too many towns that want to be honored by the seat of government — too many towns that would like to have it located with them. There are towns enough, God knows: the only trouble now is to select one for the seat of government. (Laughteri. And I undertake to say that it matters not where you locate it, for when the good sense of the people retuiiis, when the people of Montana take a calm and rational view of this thing and undertake to locate the seat of government permanently, they will locate it over in Bozeman f applause), where it ought to be from its central location, and from every other con- sideration that you can imagine. Now, I am not unfriendly to Helena: I like the Helena people and like the town; I like to see it grow: Tt makes a great demand for our potatoes and hay and oats over there in the Gal- latin Valley. May she grow within the next ten years to be a city of lOO.OOn people. 'Applause'. Hut its great growth and its great prosperity and its great influence, T say, are reasons why the seat of t;overnment of a small and j-M-owing state like this sh(mld not be permanently located within its midst. Then^ is too much influence. Now, if there are gentle- men younger than I am who would to any extent be influenced by the galleries, if they were on the floor of the House of Representatives or the Senate of the State of Montana, these influences can be and will be brought to bear upon legislators jiist the same as they have attempted to be brought upon this convention. Now, I am not adverse jiarticnlarly to a temporary location of the capitol in Helena if that would not mean the permanent location of it. .And as to my views here as to what 1 wcnild do upon this ijuestion. I have but one thing to say for a dead certainty, and that is, if I get, an opiiortimity to vote for the glorious little city of Bozeman down tliere for the temjiorai'v seat of this capital. 1 am going to do it. (Applause"!. Mr. .J. R. Toole of Deei' I.odge: .Mtlmugli unlike my friend from ( ial- latin who last had the floor, I am young ami timid, with a somewhat re- tiring disposition, yet I feel impelled to face the galleries even and say a few woi-ds with regard to the position I find myself in, particularly in regard to my esteemed and honorable friend from I,ewis & Clarke. I was -omewhat surprised that the gentleman should manifest any heat in relation to this matter: that he should bi-and this innocent little blank here as an apph; of discord in this convention, because as my fi'iend. Judge TAice. so well said, thi' blank was there: ai'tion had to be taken on it and it had to be filled up with the irame of some place that the people deemed COXSTTITTIOXAL C.OXVKXIIOX I.SSO 735 most lit. Iiislmul, sir. of tliis beiiif; ;iu apple ot iliscord and creating' any ill-feelinp. [ think it is a maittr tliaf any citizcu of Montana might well be proud of. It presents itself lo us in this light, that there are in this growing territory and prosperous state to eome a half dozen cities, any one of which are worthy to be mentioned in this connection, that is to say. the temporary location of the caidtal — any one of whom are amply able anil qualified to take the respiaisiliility and share the burdens that have been borne so long by this city here, until the permanent location of the seat of government by the people of the state. We have no desire and no feeling of creating any discord in our deliberations on this mattei'. It is something that we must take as it comes, and settle it. and settle it in a kindly and harmonious manner: and it is only proper and just that those who have preferences and believe sincerely and honestly in the merits of their claims should present them and have them acted upon by the convention and to abide with the best of good feeling the result of that action. I say for one. so far as I am concerned. Whatever may be the final result of the deliberations of the convention on this matter, that I will be satisfied and pleased with it. There \\nll be no apple of discord in connection with the matter so far as I am concerned. My friend. Judge Lvice.; made a remark which calls to my mind one feature of the case that I am about to present, and that, is tliis: He was hardly aware that theie was such a town as Anaconda in existence, and I regret that there are some few of the members here who were called upon to vote on this matter who perhaps were not aware of our true position on that side of the mountain, and for their benefit and for the benefit of this convention I wish to make a few statements and I wish to make them conservatively and conscientiously, and if I misstate or misquote anything I desire simply to be corrected. Now. we realize the fact that this is only a temporary solution of the question in any event: it is a matter that will remaain as it is fixed here only for a year or two at the outside, and then the voice of the people will decide it: and in asking for its temporary location, we want to present the claims of our town, and to have them counted in in the giCnerous rivalry for a place to be named for the temporary capital. We claim three or four things that will be necessary for the temporai-y location of the capital of this state. In the first place, in my mind, it should be easy of access: it should be central as regards the present population for the next year or two, not what it may be ten or fifteen years from now. but what it is now. In the next place, the city should have ample accommodations for the state officers and the offi- cers of the government who are obliged to go there and live. It should have all the conveniences of modern civilization, and I claim and assert now that we have all those In our city of Anacondti. I assert, first, that we have the best railroad facilities of any city in Montana. I will not go into details, hut I claimed and asserted here the other day that the railroads would verify what I said, that the business done there was three millions of dollars a year, and tliat was questioned here, and so I sent and got the exact figures, which I find to be .$2,700,000 and odd dol- lars. I claim and ask that it be considered that at almost any hour of the day or night we have railroad accommodations for getting in or out of town. I need not say that we have the best hotel accommodations of any place in this territory or any adjacent territory. That goes without controversy. I need not say either that we have the finest systeni of water. We have the best system of electric lights in Montana. We have everything there that would conduce to the ease and comfort of the members of the legislative assembly duly elected, for a year or two. If it was a jiermanent thing we would not ask it: but for a tem- porary place, we claim that we have every facility presented by any city in ^Montana Territory: and in talking about that there is another point that I wish to mention, and that is: If has been asserted that the people from the eastern portion of the territory will have to travel fur- ther than they do now. I have it from the superintendents of two lines of railroad here that when the short line is completed from ('iallatin City to Butte that the difference in time from all points east of Gallatin be- tween the city of Helena and the city of Anaconda would be the same, and another said it would he thirty minutes longer. So there is no good rea- sonable objection that I can see against the presentation at least of the name of our prosperous city. The gentleman says we have two state in- stitutions already. I wish to remind him that these institutions, one of them at least, is a private enterprise. It is of no particular benefit to the county of Deer Lodge, nor would it be to the county of Lewis & 736 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Clarke or any other county. Those institutions that we have in Deer Lodge County now we are willing anybody that wants fhem should have them. They are not definitely si'ttled. They will be parceled out by the next legislature, to be divided up with some other portion of the terri- tory, Now, I have made this stalenient, honestly, sincerely and con- scientiously. If I have stated anything that is not true here that any of the meml)ers of the convention are aware of, I desire li> be corrected. And another matter. It was said that liiere might be some expense. In order to meet that I made a proposition here the other day which I am ready to reiterate now, and that is that the city will furnish a temporary capitol, quarters for the state officers, accommodations, etc., and a building for the legislature to meet in. So it will be a matter of saving. If the conven- tion sees fit to accept that proposition we will be glad to tender it to them again; if not, we will be glad to tender the hospitalities of the city to them anyway if they see fit to locate the capital there. \\'e present our claim honestly. We know that we are justified in asserting that we have the best accommodations, and we desire honestly and sincerely to advocate them. We have no jobs or schemes here of any kind, but simply in a plain, unvarnished way desire to present to the members of this convention our claims for the possession of the capital temporarily for the State of Montana. Mr. Burleigh of Custer': I have listened with very great interest to the discussion so far as it has gone, but it seems to me there is one point that has not been sufficiently dwelt upon, and while I was thinking or it at the time that my friend from Lewis A- Clarke County was speaking upon this subject, his eloquence almost rendered me oblivious to this essential feature which should enter into the discussion and consideration of this question, ami that is this: It is as to the permanent location of the capital spoken of by my friend who sits before me., from Silver Bow County 'Mr, Rickards) and I think the people of this Territory should not be in a haste in selecting a ])ermanent location for the capital, .\fter it is located if will probably be many years, or it may be many genera- tions, and perhaps centuries, before it is removed: and wherever a capital has been located early by any stale in this Union, or by many states in this Union, they have regretted a hasty action at their leisure, and have been compelled in some cases to exprnd large amounts of money in making a new location to suit the growing wants of the people. Now, it would he a great misfortune to provide that the first or the second <'r the third legislature should permani'nily locate this capital in a country like this wtie[-e its developments depend upon so many circumstances, upon so much labor and such vast expenditures of money. Not that T would wait for some great metropolis in which to locate it: but in order to accommo- date the wants, the necessities and the conveniences of the people. I do not think there is any harm in providing for a temporary location of this caiiital liere. It is temporary only, and whenever the wants of the [leople require it to be located somewhere else permanently they will locate it, there and locate it by their suffrages, and there it will remain. Now. my friend from Lewis & Clarke I'Mr. Maginnis' in growing eloquence spoke of his own city. I love a man who Im'es his friends: I love a man who is ti'ue to his fr-iends and to his home and his fireside and his neigh- bors. I despise the man who woidd foi'sake them in the hotu' of their need and their emer.s;ency and seek new friends at thi'ir expense. I ad- mire my friend for his fidelity to the people of Lewis & Clarke coimty, and he is merely returning them gratitude for that gratitude they have shown him when he asked them foi' a favor. The man who will fail to do it is not worthy of the consideration or the confidence of any human being. But while he speaks in such exalted terms of what these people have done here — what they have done for Custer County, for Dawson County, thi'ough the agency of my friend. Matt Carroll and some others, it occuri'cd to me that perhaps with his artistic brush he had overdi'awn the picture a little — perhaps not as viewed through his optics, but cer- tainly so as viewed through mine. When he spoke of what. TiCwis .t Clarke Coimty had done for th(> smaller' counties, he spoke sincerely and from an honest and sincere heart, but misguidecj judgment I think. And he reminded me of a story, and you will pardon me for relating it, be- cause it is more expressive than any language I can use, told by a general during the war. In one of his raids throiiph the South he had a man in hi.s regiment by the name of Patrick O'Flaherty. and Patrick insisted on every occasion that he was with tht^ Duke of Wellingtcn\ at the battle of Water- loo and that witbuiil bis presence tin' D\d(i' would never have won the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 737 battle. "Why," said he, "how old a man are you?" "4.5, sir." "Why, sir, that was 10 or 1.5 or 20 years before you" were born." "It doesn't make any difference; 1 was there all the same: and," said he, "I can relate an anecdote." "\\'ell, what is if?" "Well," said he, "on the morning befon' the terrible slauf-diter took |ilace. after the Duke had orilen>d his subordinate officers to arrange the line of battle and dispose of the troops iii-eordiug to his direction, he rnde along tlie line and his staff officer met him, and said he, 'Your Excellency, the line is ready: the con- flict cannot come on too soon." The Dvike rode up and dnwn the lines, and turning around to his general of staff, he said: 'Is Patrick (/Flaherty here?' 'He is,' said he. 'Call Patrick O'Klaherty.' Patrick was called out, and said he. 'I took five steps in advance and bowed and said 'Patrick O'Flaherty is here.' 'Then,' said he, 'let the battle go on.'" (Laughteri. I was remindeil of that anecdote, and when my friend with so much em- phasis came to state the creation of all the rest of the territory by the I)eople of Helena, I was struck with its appropriateness to Patrick O'Flaherty's claim. Now, I believe in the creative power of men of genius, of energy and enterprise and all that sort of thing, but I do not believe that the battle was won by Patrick O'Flaherty at all, at all, in creating these smaller counties. There was a capital here before Helena had as- sumed the gigantic proportions which it now occupies, located here somewhere about Alder Gulch. I think, when Last Chance was strug- gling for an existence. Yet through their adroit negotiations it was taken from Alder Oulch and moved down to Last Chance, it was always sup- posed on account of undue influence. Well, now, if there was such in- fluence in the days of its infancy as to take the whole capital and move it by force, what influence may we not expect to be thrown around our legislature when they get here: and I agree with my illustrious friend Luce, who is a patriot and a statesman, that it is not safe to trust young men. It might be safe to trust him or me, but it is not safe to trust young men among such allurements and such surroundings when a con- ■vontion can be stamped out of their senses almost by the fair sex in the galleries. Now. I am sincere in what T say in regiard to the danger of lo- cating the capital too soon. I don't know that T have any particular spot for if. unless that, having voted down the beautiful towTi of Billings. I should bring Miles City to the front — no meager or insignificant town: populated by a people as brave and loyal as ever lived: surrounded by a population known as cow-boys, who never close their hands in time" of need. But I don't think I shall even drag the name of Miles City before the convention. I recollect living many years in Yankton. The" capital of the territory was located there for twenty years, and .just so long as th« capital remained there a curse rested upon the prosperity of that town, and prosperity never dawned upon it until they got rid of that incubus which had been laid upon their necks: and today a half million of dol- lars would not induce those men to take the capital back and locate it there. Now. so far as injuring Helena is concerned. I do not believe a word of it. I believe that they will forget this little source of bickering and trouble and dissension. It may cause a few jjestilential fellows to leave the country, but they will leave for the country's good: they will leave for the city's good, and for the county's good: an-d if I had my way I would locate if in some beautiful, sequesti'red iilace where a man when he got up in the morning to wash himself would not have to go and borrow the water of his neighbor or take it with him when he went to town. T.aughteri. Of course we have met here duiing an unfavorable season. I don't suppose this smoke is always here which we have been com- pelled to endure while we have been here in this town: I don't suppose the dust is always so deep as if is now: I take if for granted that the sa- loons will not be. when they get plenty of water, so populous and so densely inhabited as they are at the present time. fLaughferi. But f fail to see any advantages in Helena which are not possessed or might not he possessed before the meeting of the next legisla- ture by 15 or 20 other places in this territory. Of course our friends in Helena here have en.joyed the monopoly, as my friend Major Maginnis says, not of nioney. because if has been a source of expense to them, but of courting political favors, or something of that kind. There is a sort of magic in having it here which they are afraid of losing. It will pave the way to the United States Senate or to the House of Representatives or to the Supreme Court bench, or to some such exalted position among ttie powers and principalities of the earth. Now, I shall vote against any proposition which looks to the permanent location of the capital at an 738 PHOCEEDlNCiS A.ND DEBATES early day. I do not say that I shall vote against Anaconda or against Butte — against my friends dmvn tnxMi here: and his description reminded me of the city of the New Jerusalem, with everything except the silver pavements. But I will not vote for the permanent location of this capi- tal at an early day, for the reasons which I have assigned. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I am sorry that all the remarks that haNe hern made liave not been confined to the matters sirii'tly bffore us. Now, I belie\e that Judge Luce certainly did answer the argument of Major .Maginnis when the Majoi' stuod up and said it was not in the province of this constitutional conxention to name the temporary capital of Montana. Therefore. I shall not attempt to add anything to what Mr. Luce said on that point. TTie arguments and the speeches that have been niade remind me of the old adage, "He that hath a horn and bloweth it not, the same shall not be blown." And for fear that I may not have another opportune time to blow Butte's horn. I propose now to say a few words, and a very few. Now. Mr. Chairman, I agree witli a great deal that has been said in favor of Helena: not what is said in favor of Helena retaining the capital. Init in favor of Helenas enterprise, in favor of Helena's wonderful energy — unliarnessed and bottled up energy that is yet to be displayed. I agree with all of that. But I am not willing to sit here and admit that Helena is Montana: T am not willins: to sit here and admit that Helena is the only place for the capital: I don't believe that others are ready to admit any such proposition. Now, the fact stares ns in the face that this constitutional convention is framing a constitution which, as Major Maginnis says, has been thus far gone along with coniparati\ely in a harmonious spirit, but I contend that it will not he a perfect whole until we determine where the temporary location of the capital shall be, and we are all biioyed up and confidently expect that when this convention comes to its sober senses that they will find that Butte is the most eligible and the most acceptable point in the Territory. Butte is a wonderful city. As I said the other day when this proposifion was up, a city that is set upon a hill whos(> light cannot he hid. It is a city that I am sure all Montana is proud of. H, is a city that is all that Helena can boast of, and a great deal more. It is a city that has all of the modern appliances and conveniences, ^^'e have the best railway system in Montana: we have the best street I'ailway system in Montana: and when the Homestake Pass road is completed we will be nearer to eastern Montana than any other puint in Montana that is up for capital honors except Bozeman. and I don't believe that anyone will claim for Bozeman that it is the center of the [populous district. We do claim for Butte City that it is the center of the present populous district, and we believe it will he so for many years to come. We are not working for the permanent location of the capital at Butte City, but we do desire to work for the temporary location of the capital there, so that when this matter is submitted to the vote of the people, the people shall decide \\'hether Butte City shall be the point for the permanent capital or not. We ap'' willing to trust that to the people .Now, I am sorry that Major Maginnis referred to this npjile of discord. This discussion thus far has gone on very pleasantly until some member from Lewis & Clarke has risen to his feet and assailed the motives or impugned the motives of every member who may differ with them. I yield to no member upon this floor, not even the eloquent gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, in tin' motives that actuate e\ery memJier of this constitutional convention in framing this cnnstilution that is to be submitted to the vote of the people, and I am not willing to sit in my seat and hear those motives impugned, nor am I willing to sit here ami have it said that in the discussion of this f|uestion we are throwing to others the apple of discord. If the apple of discord has been plucked I have not seen anyone that has plucked it except some representative from Lewis & Clarke County. Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not say this in any spirit of unfairness: I do not say it in any other than a friemlly spirit: and if lher(> has l)een any other spirit than the most kindly, the most cliivalrous shown here by any delegatinn. I have yet to witness it. .Now. I hope that when we come to the final settlement of this question — T am sincere in tins — I hope you will give Biitte City what she asks. She has ni'xer had anything from Montana — not a single thing: and she asks now I'or the tempoi'ary location of the capital of Montana there because she belie\es it is her right; because .she believes that in the location of it at, that point you will he accommodating the most populous districts of Montana, not alone now. CONSTITUTIONAr, CONVENTION 1889 739 but for many years to come. And I want to real'firni what I said a wliile ago; that when the Homestake Pass mad is oompleted yon will find that Butte City is the most acceptable point in the Territory for the accommodation of the entire Territory, and more especially for the populous district of the Territory. Butte City's business surpasses that of any other point in Montana: Butte City's business lias made possible these lines of railroad that Major Magrinnis so eloquently portrayed: Butte City has made possible not only these \arinus lines of railroad, but she maintains them trtday: and I claim that the citizi-ns of Butte City have been as loyal and as patriotic to the interests of Montana as those of any other city or town in the Territory: and I claim for her that she is as loyal today: and if we don't get what we ask. we will submit as gracefully as our friend from Deer Lodge County, ^^"e are willing to contend with you as to the acceptability and eligibility of these various points, but if we shall not get what we ask we will not rise to our feet and say that from any unjust motives or influences you robbed us of our right-s. We present our claims, and we hope that when the time comes yon will give us what, we ask. Mr. Middleton. of Custer: I move that the committee now rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again. The motion was secondi'd. The Chair put the question on the said motion and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. IN con^'t;ntion. President Clark in the Chair. The convention .was called to order. The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reported progress and asked leave to sit again. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports progress, and asks that the committee be extended leave to sit again. Mr. Callaway, of Madison: I move that th>' convention take a recess until two o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. RECESS. 2 o'clock P. M. The convention was called to order by the President. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The convention had under consideration a special order in the Committee of the Whole. The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reported progress and asked leave to sit again, which was granted. What is the pleasure of the convention'? Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge: I move that thp convention resolve itself into C.imimittee of tlie Whole for the further consiileration of Proposition No. 18. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: Before the motion is put. I desire to send to the Clerk's desk a resolution and ask that the same be read in con- nection with the matter in the newspaper that I send along with it. The President: The gentleman from Missoula Mr. Bickford offers a resolution. Is there any objection to ils being read"? If there be no objection, it will ie read. The Clerk read as follows: "Whereas the privileges of the floor of this convention have been accorded the Helena .Journal with other papers of the Territory for the purpose of reporting the proceedings of the convention: and whereas said privilege has been abused by the said 740 I'ltOCKKlil.XfiS AM) liKHATES Helena Journal in I hat. ai'ticli's have been published in said papei' rellfcl- 111),' updn the intcfirity oi ceilaiu members nf this convention and impugn- iiit; the motives ot eei'tain nirmbers in castiiifr their votes: there- lore be it resolved that the said Helena Journal be excluded from this hall and its representatives be excluded from the floor of the convention during the remainder of its session: and that the sei-geant-at-arms b.' directed to see that this resolution is enforced. (Signed) L. D. HATCH. C. S. MARSHALL. JOSEPH E. MARRION, W. M. BICKFORD. W. R. RAMSDELL. W. J. KEXNEDY. The Clerk also read said article rrfcrred to as fnllnws: "FUNNY BUSINESS FROM MISSOUI-A." "A trade has been made, but of what nature not a woid has been divulged. This delegation acted in what may be termed a meteoric man- ner on the question of representation in tlie Senate. It would naturally have been supposed that Missoula would have stood in with Lewis & Clarke, Silver Bow and Deer Lodge on this question, bi'ing a big county. The vote of the entire delegation, howevei-. astounded everyone by going solidly with the small coimties in favor of the one-county-one-senator principle. Previous to taking this action a caucus of the delegation was held. It was rumored that they had traded their vote for a vote on the capital question. Just what this trade was and how it was worked is difficult to surmise. It is certain that Missoula County did not trade her vote on this matter for those of the small counties on the capital question, as she can have no hope of getting the capital located at Mis- soula. The true inwardness of the vote will doubtless be learned today." The President: \^'hat is the pleasure of the convention concerning this resolution? Mr. Bickford, of Missoula: T move the adoption of the resolution. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis .*t Clarke: I would be as loath as anybody to impugn the motives or actions of the members of any delegation, or to have them impugned, Ijui I think this ought to go to a special com- mittee to investigate the charge and see if it was maliciously done or for what reasons it was done. T think the gentleman from Missoula would be very glad to have that done. T suggest a special committee of three to investigate the matter,, and if that committee report favorably on the resolution there will be nobody in the convention that will more tiladly vote on the resolution than mysi'lf. Xobody ought to he pvniished without the form of a trial. Mr. Bickford. of Missoula: 1 arqireciate the weight of what has been said by the gentleman fi-om Lewis it Clarke, and I also aiipreciate the fact that it is a serious matter to have the motives of th(^ members of this convention impugned either ujion the floor of the convention or in a newspaper of general circulation in the Territory. The members from Missoula County are confronted with the fact thai they must go back to their constituents and if their constituents have a knowledge of this publication, that they must stand the brunt of having a falsrhood to face, and that they must fight it down. I desire at this time to submit to the convention the fact — and if there is any member of the eon\'ention who knows to the contrary, I call upon him to get upon his feet and slate it — that the delegation from Missoula County have acted as fair as any dele- gation within the limits of this hall. ^Ve have lieen neithri- bought by the expectation of favor nop- have we been cowered by the threats of anyone. We are here simply to vote for pi'inciples. to maintain that which we cnnsidei' right, anil to stay by any convictions we may have, no matter whethei' we are persuaded or whether we are threatened. It is true that the Missoula delegation has not always voted as a unit, and this fact I refer to only as showing that we are honest and sincere in our convictions. We have been modest because we come from a county west of the mountains and one that is I'emote from the rest of the Terri- tory. We do not wish to enforce \ipon this convention in any (uifair way any convictions that we may have. The opportunity may have been pi'esented to us In {r:\i\f our Miles Inr dlhers, but I say that no open cONSTriTriii-Wi. r.o.wE.Niiox issvi 741 proffer has ever hriMi inado by any niombrr nf this cunvt'ntinn so to do. I can ■say. standiii).' in my place here upon the floor of this convention that, be it te the credit of this convention, no proffer of any kind has ever been made so fai' as the capital question is concerned, nor any other matter, so far as that is concerned; and if there has been a vote taken upon the question of representation in the State Senate to be. ihf voti' iif the Missoula delegatinn has been a vote frivcii trum purest moti\es and simply because they believed that that political principle should prevail, that a representative should come from every county in Ibis Territory. \\'e are not here, Mr. President, to be bulldozed by a newspaper, nor are we to bo browbeaten by our fellow memliers. We are here simply to co-operate with the memliers of this convention for the best interests of the Territory of .Montana. I say this without fear of successful contradiction. I say it, and I appeal to our actions upon the floor of this convention as a confirmation of what I say. I simply leave the resolution in the hands of the convention to do with it as they see fit. Mr. Maginnis. of Lewis & Clarke: I wish to assin-e my friend from Missoula that I fully concur in all that he has said: and of course it will be as apparent to him as to others that a bi-each of privilege being conuuit- ted. the report of an impartial committee of this convention will be a judicial decision in favor of the gentlemen who feel themselves aggrieved. Everyone knows that a ne\vspaper run oid in the morning contains a great many things that the editor nor anybody else but the authors of them ever see. and I think the best thing would be to refer the question to the breach of privilege to a committee of three gentlemen. Mr. Cooper, of Gallatin: I move that this resolution be referred to a committee of three, with instructions to report tomorrow- morning after the moining roll call. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said mulion. and a division being called for. the same was declared carried by a vote of 12 in the affirma- tive to 10 in the negative. The Chair appointed as such committee .Messrs. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke. Knowies of Silver Bow-, and Gibson of Cascade. Mr. Maginnis asked to be excused, and the Chair appointed in bis place Mr. Burleigh of Custer. Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge, renewed his motion that the conven- tion resolve itself into Committee of the Whole. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. L\ COMMITTEE OF THE WHOI^E. Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke, in the Chair. The committee was called to order. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Chairman. T regret exceed- ingly that any gentleman of this convention feels that anything has been said or done which would be construed to be an impugnment of his integrity or in any way a reflection upon his conduct in this conven- tion. And T desire to disclaim in the outset in anything that I shall have to say. any intention of indulging in anything of that kind or character: and if anything should escape me that would be subject to any such construction, I now make the apologv-. It will either be through the infirmity of my language or the heat of debate. I do not think that any gentleman of this convention may be fairly subject to anv such imputa- tion or that there has been cause for anything of the kind. I trust. Mr. Chairman, that I may be permitted to indulge the hope that every member of this convention, when the time for adjournment shall have come— and there is ample foundation for the hope — that he may be able to say. as did the distinguished statesman of Kentucky — a gentle- man who was the pride and devoted son of that great State— who," when he came to finish up his public career, asked that there might be inscribed upon his tomli tliese immortal words: "I can appeal." he said, "with unshaken confidence to the Divine Arbiter for the truth of the declaration which I here make, that I have been controlled by no impure motives, have sought no personal aggrandizement, but in all my public 712 I'HOCKKIUMiS AM) DEBATES acts I lia\(' had an oye singlr and a wai'ni. ili'Mitni lieait In wlud in my best. jud;4ini>nt, I conct'ivpd to be, tlie true inten'sls of my eouiiti'y." Now. Mr. Pro.sidont. it i.s pprliai)S proper to say in the oul.sct that we ought to concvixe — to start witli a proper apprehension of what are the duties and oliligations imposed upon this convenlion. DitlerenI ideas obtain. At dirf(n-ent times during the |irocerdings of this e-iiinention it l]as lieen asserted that a eoiistitutional eonvention is a sovereign body — that it possesses ahsohite sov(>rei^nty, and lliat it only needs to sul)mit its acts for ratification to the pen|ih' in order that they may have binding force and effect. Upon tlie otiiei' liand. 1 maintain,, as I maintained \ipon the adoption of the ijreamblc, tlial tliis conNenlioii has nmer sout^ht to act as a political sovereignty, but that wliat it does is in jiursuance of an Enabling Act of the Congress of the I'nited States, suiiplenicuted with whatever sovereignty belongs to it. For fovu- years, as the rei)re- sentative of the people of this Territory, independent of politics, upon the floor of the Congress of the United States, in the lobbies and else- where, in season and out of season. I have clamored for constitutional • government for the people of the State of Montana. I thought then, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the convention, that the people of this Territory wanted constitutional government, and that they were demand- ing that a convention might assemble in the city of Helena foi' the purpose of adopting a constitution for the proposed State of Montana. I never dreamed, Mr. Chairman, ftiat the object and purpose of it was io move the capital to some other point within the State. It may be. Mr. Chairman, that the right resides in this convention to establish the seat of government: it may be that this convention has the arbitrary power to locate the seat of government. Carrying that idea out of its logical consequences,, if it be possessi'd of this idea of sovereignty, it may go farther and nominate a State ticket from Governor down, place it in this constitution, submit it to the people and say "You shall be compelled to accept the ticket which we nominate, or you will be compelled to defeat this constitution." Applause"' Now. let me ask you, Mr. Chair- man and gentlemen of this convention, in all fairness, are you not tieing the hands of the jieople upon this question, if you consider it of sufficient importance to submit it at all? Are you not tieing the hands of the people and saying, "Gentlemen, you cannot have a fair expression of popular sentiment and popular will upon this question, but if you want to adopt a constitution for the State of Montana you must accept it with siiine town which we shall designate in it as the temiiorary seat of gov- ernment." You are taking away from them the right to say what they will do. Now, this might be very well, and it woiild be excusable if what was stated by my honorable friend from Gallatin County (Judge Luce"i was true. He stated that it was absolutely necessary "that we should desisnafe some place in this instrument for the temporary seat of govern- UT'iit. He was followed up also by the j;enlleman from Silver ISow, who ahx-ays presents everything forcibly and clearly 'Mr. Rickardsi that that condition of things was true and therefore it becomes necessary to insert the name of some town in this constitution. Let me eall the attention of the gentlemen to the fact that by an act of the I^egislative .\ssembly ot !87i provision was made for submitting the question of the location of the seat of government to the people of (he Territoi'v of Montana, and by a popular vote it was determined to be,at the city of Helena. Tbei'eupon the proclamation of the Governor was made, the law went into force, the seat of government was removed, is here today and has been here since that time. The very last section of the Enabling .\ct under which this constitution assembled and \uider which it transacts its business today provides that the laws of the Territory of Montana, not modified by the Enabling .\ct or this constitution, shall he and r(Mnain in full (f^rcf^ and effect, tiy that the seat of government — (he tipon this question: (hat our votes were beiiiu misconstrued as a vote against the city of Helena. Now. this is true. If it wei'e not ti'ue it w-ould be nec(>ssary in this constitution ti) go farther, if we desire any laws of the Teri'itor\- to remain in force. and s(rik(> out the word "Teiritory" wherever it appears in tlie miscel- laneous subdivisions, in the criminal siibdivisions. in tlie civil I'dde and in the ;^('nei-nl law. This was doin' fnr the \ery express pui'posi' nf jue- coxsTrn; rio.NAL co.wf.n riox issi) iva \cnling tlit^ [looplp in thrso Trri'iliii-irs wlm arn proposing tn roi-in Stales from entfring into those legal controversies. Why. sir. in that. Enahling Act, so far as the Territory of North Dakota was concerned, an express pi'oxision is inserted in it. I hat they shall have a right to submit the O'lestion nf the temporary location of I he scat of government tn the people of the State by a separate proposition and an amendment. Allu- sion is made all the way through the bill to the temporary seats of gov- ernment, and also to Bismarck in North Dagota. Now, that is true, and it was done for the very purpose, I take it, to prevent these legal contro- vei'sies. I consider it a laudable ambition urion the part of any town in this Territory to aspire ti> capital honors. There is nothing wrong about it. Helena claims no such superiority as would point it out as the only place in this Territory where the seat of government ought to be. It recognizes that in this Territory towns are growing up — towns of import- ance— and that the settlement of new communities is constantly changing the centers of population. What we do claim is that when the question is submitted, when the time shall come for the consideration of this question, that it may go to the popular will: that the people, independently of the question of constitutional government, may be permitted to say where it shall be. Now. we may be running upon dangerous ground. T listened the other day to my good friend from Deer Lodge, .Judge Whitehill, who stood upon ibis floor time after time and asserted that any proposition which went into this constitution that said the Legisla- ture shall do so and so was a nugatory proposition and a nugatory provision. You propose to locate the temporary seat of government at Anaconda, at Butte, at Bozeman, or elsewhere, and then you follow it up with a provision which says the Legislature shall at its first, its second, or its third session provide for the submission of that proposition to the people. I say my friend has said to you time and again, and he has said that the books are full of it,, that you cannot mandamus the Legislature: you cannot compel them by any pro)ii)sition known to the jaw. There was no method by which the executive department or the judicial department could control the legislative department. Hence, if the pro- vision is put in there and the temporary seat of government is removed, how. I ask you. do you know that it will not remain there for five yeais. for fen. for fifteen or for twenty. Therefore, it seems to me that it is useless to undertake to interfere with this proposition at a time when it is admitted by everybody that the permanent seat of government should not yet be located. It therefore seems proper to me that the temporary seat of government should remain just exactly where it is without any interference upon the part of the convention, and that the Legislative Assembly when it meets at its first, second, third, fifth or sixth session, or whenever public sentiment may demand it, may be in a situation unrestrained by constitutional provisions from putting it into operation. Now. sir. the constitution which we ai-e adopting is an instrument, I take it, in which not only every member of this convention, but every citizen of this Territory, ought to feel a pride. This is no place for this sort of question. If it was in the Legislative Assembly, I would not only think it entirely proper, but I would expect of every locality in this Territory that thought that, I hey were the proper place for the seat of govei'nment to urge their claims in the best manner possible. But in the constitution it was designed that it should contain only fundamental law. Expediency, policy, the mere question as fo where a thing should be today or tomorrow — no such proposition as that was ever designed to be inserted in the fundamental instrument of any State of the Union. Shall we put into this constitution mere matters of expediency? Cer- tainly not: only the fundamental law: and I think that declaration has been assented to a hundred times upon this floor since this convention met. Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not think it can be maintained here, so far as the mere question of sovereignty is concerned, that this convention has a right to do anything that it pleases arbitrarily. It ought to be done w'ilh circumspection: it ought to be done with discn-fion. If that is not the case, what is there but the mere sense of justice upon the part of this convention to prevent it from running riot as did the thirty tyrants of Athens Nothing but the mere sense of propriety on the part of this convention would guide and control it. This convention provides that certain things shall go into this constitution, and it seems to me that we will lose nothing of our character, integrity or ambition if we confine ourselves as closely to it as we may; so that in the end. Mr. 711 l'H()(;KKI)l.\(iS AM) DEBATES Chairinaii. we ina\ 'liaM' a LMiistilulinn which shnil cDntaiii iinl.\- riuicla- montal law; a constitution which may hist in all its vigor unmiiiain'ii unlil our resources, unlil our weallh and our prosperity shall ilcmami a slill greater enlargement of our liherties. fApplausei Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: I had not intended to have inlnidcil u|ioii the convention any remarks of my own in reference to liiis matter, but as it seems to have taken a turn wherein not the interests of the localities is involved, hut the greater' question of constitutional law. I have a desire to say a few words upon the suh.ject. Here is an Act of Congress author- izing us to assemble for the ijui'pose of forming a State constitution. Under that we have the undoubted right to make provisions to protect the life, the liberties and the dearest interests of every citizen of the proposed State of Montana. But it seems, according to the arguments of gentlemen that have been madr- here to you. that when it comes to the very vital and important qui^stion of this convention saying where the temporary seat of government shall lie, that that is a matter over which this convention has no .jurisdiction whatever. Why, one of my honorable friends from Lewis it Clarke says that he does not think that Congress ever had any idea that anybody would undertake to remove the capital. Now, with all due respect "to its importance, to its high standing among the great commercial and financial centers of the world, permit me to suggest that Congress would iierhaps so far forget its duty that the town of Helena never entered its mind. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: The gentleman, I am sure, does not want to misrepresent me. My point was that this Enabling Act of Congress autliorized any of these conventions to take this matter into consideration. Mr. Dixon, of Silver Bow: I say in reply to that that it seems very singular to me that the question of authorizing the admission of any of the new States, should have any concern or interest in whatever the conventions might do in such an unimportant and simply local matter as the changing of the seat of government. As I said before, we may pass nnquestioned here propositions relating (o the most vital interests of the community, and yet when it comes to the question of whether or not the capital shall be removed, on that our mouths are stopped by the Organic Law. Now,; I claim that this convention has full power not only to regulate that matter — a matter comparatively unimportant among matters of so much more moment— but I claim that if it chooses to exercise that power, it has undoubted right to do so. The gentleman who last addressed you said this would be taking an unfair advantage of the people. I say not. If we take no action in this matter, and that is wiiat the gentlemen want — they do not want anything done — then under the law the temporary seat of government w^ould remain where it is. But they say we are taking an unfair advantage. Suppose w-e leave the seat of goxernment at the city of Helena, does not that comprehend quite as much as if we were to provide for removing it somewhere idse? I believe this whole matter is purely within the discretion of the conven- tion. This constitution is to he voted upon. We are not the final judges whether it shall be the controlling law of the land or not. It is to be submitted to the people, and we have just as much right, if we believe it is expedient and fit to do so, to act upon this question as upon any other, and I hope the gentlemen of the con\ention will Tint be deterred from taking such action as their judgment may dictate, by the idea that thei-e is a great constitutional question involved here, and that among the multiplicity of powers, one was resi'rved. and that you must iirotect the rights of the city of Helena. It is presumptuous, it is absurd, to talk about removing the capital. When you come to toucti the interests of Helena, you must be still, you must say nothing: taki> off thy shoes frfiiii off thy feet, for the ground whereon thou standest is holy ground. I.augliter and applause' Now. I do not consider this a very vital matter. ThciT are a great many things that we have considered in this constitu- tion of infinitely more imiiortance to the people of this Territory than where the temporary capital may be located: but T do say that we have a pei'fect right to consider it. and I think we ought to do so: and if it is the sense of this convention that some other place, some other point ihan Helena is entitled to whalexer ad\antages thei-e may be in the ti'iupiiraiy seal of government, I think it is perfectly I'ighl and pi'oper that Ibis coineidion should take action in repai'd to the matter. Now, so r;ir .'IS Hie Silvei- !!iiw (ii>|ei;al ion is I'lUici'meil, I believe Ihal I repi'e- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 745 sent, thcni in saying that they desire, as is natural and right, the removal of the temporary seat of government to Butte, but they do not stand exactly in the position that seems to be assumed by some of the repre- sentati\es of Lewis & Clarlie Gotmty, In Butte wo have a large and flourishing mining camp. We take pride in the wealth, the resources and the business and the industries of our town, but wo do not claim to own the Territory of Montana. We do not claim that we built up Custer County, we do not claim that there is no place in the Territory but what was built up by Butte capital, and therefore ought to be tributary to Butte whenever it comes to the question of the interests of Butte. We admit the right of every portion of the country, of every place in the State to put in its claim for the location of the temporary seat of government. Whatever enler'rpises have been established. whate\fr in- dustries have been founded there, they have been founded for the benefit of those who went into them, and while those industries have had their effect, all over the Territory. I may say.- in the increase of business, we do not claim that we went into them for the benefit of the outside counties, nor do we claim that we have any lien upon the outside coun- ties, by which they should vote for Butte for the temporary seat of government We stand only upon our own rights, and upon our own claims, not derogating from those of other people, nor assuming that it is sacrilegious for anybody else to claim anything as against Butte, not thinking that it is presumptuous for anybody else to think they have a good town, but only presenting our claims, and asking for them a fair consideration. If this matter is put upon the gruund of the considerations which have been advanced here in favor of Helena. I do not know of one of them that might not apply with e(iual force to Butte. As a center of population, it certainly lias as many advantages as this place; in fact, I know of no argument in favor of Helena that would not apply to the location of the capital in Butte. But, as I said before, we stand upon our merits, claiminfi- a fair I'onsideration. hut without any attempt or any desire to arrogate to ourselves any superior clnim, except so far as it is founded upon righi and .justice to that of any other commuTiitv in the coiuiti-y. And so far ns this mattei' of stirring up strife m this convention is i oncerned. so far as castini; into the rins: thy apple of discord, and stirring up feeling and all that, why. I have seen no evidence of It, exci'pt thai which came from some of the gentlemen who have addressed yciu upon this flooi' in reference to the retention of th.> capital. -Now. this is not a matter about which I see any occasion for feeling, or for which I sep any occasion foi- any discord. Why. the world will not go t( piere'' if the capital is removed from Helena, nor Helena will not go to pieces either. I have a great respect for the city of HehMia. I admire the perseverance and persistence and the unanimity with which its people stand together in everything that relates to it. I am proud of the |)lace as a city of Montana, and I admit that it has all the virtues in the calendar, except one — now somewhat gone out of date, but still entitled to be considered occasionally — the virtue of modesty. I'Laughter- and applausei However. I am not willing to admit everything that is claimed for it, nor am I willing to admit that there are any such superior rights existing in Helena as to make it pi'esinnptuous upon the part of any other place to fairly present its claims for the seat of government, and to ha\e those claims acted upon. As I said before. I see no feeling or fi'ouble or discord here. Let us go on and discuss this mat- ter. Let us consider what is best to be done. Let each mem- ber vote according to his convictions, and when we are through let that, be the end of it. So far as Butte is concerned. I am satisfied I can say for its delegation that if its claims are defeated, there will be no demonstrations of recalcitration on its part, ^^'e will accept the verdict of this convention: and I think I represent the sentiment of the ma.jority that if we cannot get it in our own place, we shall exercise the privilege of voting for it in the next place that we believe should have it. and we shall do all this aoodnaturedly. We shall advance no claim of superior rights against any other place. If we are beaten, we shall give up. making the best of what we can. and there shall be no further feeling about the matter. I do not understand why there should he any feeling. Why. if Helena has all the advantages of the future before it. and the present prosperity which it has. and which I believe it will always have, it seems to me that there should be no feeling about this matter. I do not know how vou are situated here in Helena with 746 PHOCEEDIMGS AM) DEBATES reference to lln' loc;itinii of I he capital: wo lia\i' f;ot almig- in Butte without it; wliatever advautagos there are in it, Helena has had them tor a good while, and as 1 said before, wliiie I do not (Jesire to go into this discussion at any greater lenylh, I want to state what I believe is the position and the feeling of the majority of the Silver Bow delegation, that we have got a perfect right to consider this matter if we choose, and that there is nothing about it, which will prevent us. if we desire to do so, from voting to take the capital away from Helena, however treasonable it may seem in the eyes of some people who live in this particular place. Ujjon that principle we propose to act, good naturedly, without feeling, and without making any accusations: but we certainly d(i not intend to be bluffed off from discussing this question, or trying to get a vote of the convention upon it. by reason of any want of power in the convention to regulate the matter if it see fit to do so. Mr. Whitehill, of Deer Lodge: I do not propose to repeat or rehash any of the arguments which have been presented here at all. My friend from Bozeman has fully answered the arguments in regard to the power of this convention to settle this question as to the location of the capital. And I would simply say that I do and have argued here that any such provision put info the constitution, as says that the Legislature shall do so and so, is nugatory. But sometimes there is a power in the indignation of the public, in the arousing of public sentiment, which will do things that courts cannot do, and let any aspirant after public office attempt to make nugatory any act of this convention, and I say here that he will be hurled forever info utter oblivion by the indignation of these people. Now, there is but a single thought, Mr. President, that 1 wish to present here, and that is this: Threats have been made, and v/ith very great effect because gentlemen have said to me, "Whitehill, if this thing is pressed, we fear \ery much that the constitution will be defeated." Is not that a great idea for any gentleman who is in this convention to argue or attempt to substantiate — the idea that if we do not leave the capital at Helena, that this constitution which we propose to present to the people will not be ratified? Now, Mr. ("hairman, no matter what this convention in its good wisdom may decide lo do, whether it shall allow the capitol to remain here, or whether il shall say that it shall go to some otlKU- town — no matter what, if this convention has decided, the good people of this beautiful city may decide to do in t,hat respect, no matter what the people of our sister city of Butte may decide to do, no matter what Bozeman,, Billings, or any other town or hamlet in this blessed State may decide to do — I tell you that on the first day of October, in spite of storm or tempest roar, in spite of false and foolish lies, I assure you, the good people of Anaconda will come up with smiling faces, and give a solid vote for the ratification of this constitution, which we may jiresent to them. And I tell you that in spite of the slurs which have been cast upon us. in spite of the insinua- tions which have been hurled at us, I tell you that the good people of Anaconda are not spiteful, (Applause) Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I hn\i' no desire lo discuss lliis iiues- lion, but propositions have been piTsented. and assertions lia\i' lieen made, that have comi)elled me lo take my part in this discussion. The question of sovereignly in this convention has been touched upon. This conxention, as I have 'asserted before, assembled to form a constitution by virtue of the sovereign right of the jjoople the>- represent. The Congress of the United States had no povv(>r to form a stall' government. A state government is formed by the so\ereign power reposed in the lieople witliin the limits of a certain locality, and they organize their govermnent and they come tii the door of Congress anil say, we wish to be admitli'd into the family of slates with the constitution that W(> have: and the only limit ujion that is that it shall be republican in form. As to the question fif Ihis t.enqiorary location of the capitol, why, we ha\e got, a right to say where the legislative assembly or the legislativi- power that we create shall meet. We created that iiower. \^'e. the people of Montana delegate to that legislature its' power, and we limit its power, and we cannot say where it shall assemble".' If wi^ cannot, it seems that we are out very short: that while we can provide for a legislatiu'e. and give it a right to legislate, upon nil rightful sidi.jects of legislation, that we caimot say where that legislature should meet. I do not claim that this comention is over and above all law. It mei'ts hiic in piu'suance of an Ait of Congress, lo form a constitution. The CONSTITLTIU.NAL CONVENTION 1889 717 fonslifulion of the United States provided for a permanent eaiiitol: tliey have provided in that eonstitr.tion where a permanent eapitol s^hould be, ten miles square, that should be under the absolute control of the United States. In the law we created the Constitutional Convention, wh created the Constitution of the United States, and submitted it to the people; there was no authority upon this subject of the location of the eapitol. The temporary capitbl of the Confederated States was then 1 believe at Philadelphia, but they provided afterwards in that constitu- tion for establishing a permanent eapitol. and there was no provision of that Congress that gave them any such powrr. The fact is that the law under which the convention wrote the Constitution of the United States. and enacted it. did not provide for any such cimstitution as that conven- tion adopted. Then we conie dowTi to another point in it. The gentle men say. Why we will leave things just as they are: and yet this En- abling Act provides that the laws of the territory shall remain in force; reading "and all laws in force made by said territory at the time of the admission in the United States, shall be in force in said state, ex- cept as modified or changed by this Act. or by the constitution of the state respectively." Now there is a special grant given by this Enabling Act that they can change these laws. They say "remain in force, except as modified or changed by this Act or by the constitutions of the states respectively." These states when we can create, can modify the law and change the law, and yet the gentlemen say that in respect to all matter, you can change these laws upon any question, except one. and that the eapitol question. Here Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke interrupted the speaker in a few words, which were not distinguisliable at the reporter's table . Mr. Knowies of Silver Bow: Yes. but that does not refer either to the laws that should be enforced or the fundamental law; it refers to the laws that sliall be on the statute books and there is a special law that those laws that are on the statute books, we may change. But if that was not there, then you have got a law upon your statute books that says that the eapitol for the t( ri-itory of Alontana shall be at Helena — not the temporary eapitol. gentl'Mnen. not the temporary eapitol, Mr. Chair- man— hut the eapitol of Montana Territory. And if we ado|it those laws. we would adopt that a-s the eapitol of Alontana Territory. Now. in the report of a committee of which I am Chairman, that will be made in a day or two, as soon as this convention proceeds a little further, there wnll be a provision that wherever "territory" or "Territory of Montana" occurs in the Laws of Montana that they shall be read "state" or "State of Montana" to make it applicable to state government. Now. apply this to the location of the eapitol that is now located in Helena, and you have "the eapitol shall be at Hfdena" — the eapitol of the state. .Inst look at it there. That is the eapitol nf the state and that will be the way that the law will read — not the temporary eapitol. but th' eapitol of tlie state. These gentlemen ai'e law\-ers enough to know that that will be the effect of enacting that schedule. Do we want to lea\e out such a provision as (hat Do we want to go into a state organization wherever "territory" occurs, leaving it still in there — that prosecution shall be made in the name of the territory, that certain things shall be done by the territory; do we want to leave that there? No. we want to change these laws and make them apply to the state, and that is what we are doing here by legislating, ^^■hen we adopt that schedule we will legislate upon that subject. That is enacting law by this conevntion; and upon that matter, if you leave this matter without saying anything about this temporary government. I believe that as you have adojited a state government here, and say nothing upon the subject of a eapitol. that the courts themselves, would be compelled to construe the law as you would provide in this schedule, and say that wherever "territory" occurred it meant "state." and wherever "Territory of Montana" oc- curred it meant "State of Montana." They would have to do that: they would have to say that it had been modified by enacting this state gov- ernment. Now. gentlemen here seem to think and argue as though this was only a continuation of a sort of a territorial government. It never has been fully decided yet as to what a territorial government is. One thing that seems to be clearly decided about a territory is that it has not any rights that courts are hound to respect — that no matter what laws it enacts that the courts of the United States can repeal them. That it has no sovereignty at all. That was the argument that was made for 748 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES K;uisii>. liy Si'iialni' Duujilas lliat. IIktc is a sdvcrciynty in lln' pi'iipln that ni'MM' has bppii granted to Ihc national gov(>rnment and tliat l).v vii-tue of this siivproifjnty that was in thi' |)oi)))h', tlipy liad a rigid to I'liact theso local laws that were called derisively "squatter sovereignty." But the Supreme Court of the United States in tiie Dred Scott decision, denied that: and where we are and what we are it is ditticult to tell from the decisions. But I do say, gentlemen, that whatever it is, that this state gov- ernment is something that is different fi'om a territorial government. It is upon a different basis: it has a different status. It is a slate — and not a simple municipal corpoi'ation or a simple thing that is created by the will of Congress. It is something that is ci-eated by the peojde. It. is a state created by the people in their sovereign cafiacity: and when you come do\TO to that, this government is not siniiply a conlinuation of the territorial goveriunent, only modified by a constitution — it is a new government, an entire revolution. New rights, new officers and every- thing that pertains to this state government will be different from a ter- ritoi'ial goverimient; and we have to adopt all these schedules and these amendments in the laws so as to make tlieni applicable to the state gov- ernment, and we do it in our constitution that we adopt. There has been a good deal said as to the enterprise of Helena, and the propriety of the question of leaving this capitol here, ^^'hatever is thi» propriety of leaving the capitol here, I trust there will be a provision in this con- stitution that will only make Helena the temporary capital,, if the capi- tol remains here. But tlien as to the question of propriety. The gen- tleman has spoken of the enterprising citizens of Helena. I grant that they aie enterprising. They have citizens in Helena that I have wished lived in the communities where I li\e: they have had jiush and energv and public spirit and a patriotism in their town such as has never been witnessed anywhere else in Montana. Wliat citizens of other communi- ties in Montana Territory have had the loyalty towards their town that the citizens of Helena have had".' They have built up here under the most discouraging circinnstances a splendid city. Hut, gentlemen, they have not done everything for Montana, and there has been a good defll that has been charged against them of selfishness in their enterprise. There is a good deal of that that is true. The gentlemen may say that they have (lone this and that for their county, but they have not done it in the spii'it id' generosity. Tlie gentlemen say "\\'hy. you have the Insane Asy- lum in I>eei- Lodge County." We have not the Insane .\sylum in Deer Lodge County. There is no Insane Asylum located there. 'I'bere are a couple of respectable gentlemen ineml>ers of the medical fraternity that, under a contract with the Territory of Montana, took care of its insane at so much per head. They could as well have taken those insane to Bouldei' as they could to the Warm Springs. They could take them to Bozenian today as well as leave them where they are. They are .simply contractors to keep and board these men for so much money. There is no location of the Insane Asylum there. Tliere has been some desire to locate the Insane Asylum at NN'arin Springs, and pui-chase that property as it is so well adapted to that purpose. But how has Helena felt uijnn that sub.ject? It has lieen felt liy a good many of our legislative assem- bly that Helena was not favorable for a iiermanent location of the Insani' .\sylum even for' the territory, because Helena might want that institu- tion itself. Then they say that they have in |)e(>i' Lodge County the Penilentiary. Yes: a good many years ago the I'enitentiary was located in Deer Lodge County. After a few years it was filled. They were in such a condition that every United States Orand .Tory for ten or twelve, ami 1 do not know but fifteen years, reported that the I'enitentiary was in a bad condition and asked to have something done with it: and imi until the time arrived when the courts had to jirovide by order that the peni tentiary convicts should he confined in the local .jail on account of that peniteidiai'y bi'ing so filled up. coidd there be foimd anything to Ix- done to enlarge that iieinteidiary : and it was charged by a good many citizens of Deei' Lodge that there was a local feeling ujion that suliject in this town of Helena, ami that was llie ri'asdii the penilentiary was iinl en- larged. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Did you ever believe thai, .lodge-? Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: T never knew why it could not be en- larged, because I knew that when it was iMilarged, although it was the jiropertx- of the United Slati's, it was taken out of ttn> pockets of the lax- payei's III' Mnnlaiia Terrilnry a paii of the internal i-e\enue nf Mmitan.i CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1880 749 Territory that was collected in this territory in violation of the great fundamental principle that there should be no taxation without represen- tation. Part of the forty thousand dnllars. less than half of the revenue derived from Montana Territory for one year, was at one time put in thai penitentiary. The yentlemen say that they have built railroads — the Helena people ha%e — in their communities; they have built a railroad to Philipsburg. \\"hy, were there not other parties associated with the few Helena gentlemen that built the railroad to Philipsburg? Were there not some West Side capitalists that helped build that road and really put the largest amount of capital in that enterprise — and the railroad, too, up the Bitter Root Valley"? Why. these gentlemen were associated with other gentlemen in Montana Territory who had not lived in Helena, all building that as a business enterprise for the money that could be made out of building it: and yet the gentlemen from Helena can brag about these things that have been done by gentlemen of business en- terprise from other portions of the territory associated with them. Why, it is these things, gentlemen, that lead us to say that there is consid- erable of selfishness in Helena — that there is a considerable disposition to aggrandize the people of Helena. Why, to off-set the penitentiary of Deer Lodge, that has been a kind of nuisance over there, you have the United States Assay Office located at Helena and that has been a good deal belter provided for and cared for than the Penitentiary of. Deer Lodge. NMiy, the bullion that was shipped from the Hope Mining Com- pany in Deer Lodge County and from other places, that we sent here were reported as the product of this community because they went through this assay office. What stopped the mining men from Deer Lodge from sending their bullion to be assayed at this office. It was because Helena claimed it as part of their product. I know that the gen- tlemen talk about that, and there are gentlemen here that know more about that matter than I do. And there was a time,,' I remember years ago, when Deer Lodge was an aspirant for capital honors — only forty miles from Helena — and at that time Deer Lodge County had sixty mine camps, placer mining camps — and was turning out more than om'-half of the gold product of the territory: and Helena claimed that it was friendly to that proposition, and the gentleman at that time — the distinguished and honorable gentleman — was running for Congress, and they came over there from Helena and said "Why, you support our man for Congress and we will support Deer Lodge for the capital. And there were some fifty or sixty votes obtained at that time against a citizen of Deer Lodge upon that play, and when the time came around they got twenty-eight votes in Lewis & Clark County for Deer Lodge for capital. Why was it? Because Helena was an aspirant and it wanted to put its foot on any other aspirant but itself. The gentleman has stated that a certain Helena man started the town of Miles City. "Why," said he. "a gentleman of Helena built the first house in Miles City, our grand Mr. Matt Carroll." Well. Mr. Matt ('arrcdl. if I remember correctly, about that time was a contractor for the government of the United States in furnishing transportation and supplies to ,the Fort, and I have wondered whether or not the fact that part of that reservation was cut off so that .Matt Carroll could put his house there, was not because he was a Helena man. (Laughter' . Now, in re- lation to the town in which I livi^ — Butte — they have got a notion that they want the capital ovr there, and we from that section will support that place for the capital. The gentlemen here may seem surprised, or may feign surprise, that Butte should not be disposed to stand in with its thriving sister upon the other side of the mountain: but there is a 'feel- ing in Butte that Helena has not always been .just. In talking about the railroads that were to be built, one that was manipulated under Helena hands- was to go from the Tliree Forks up the Boulder over here am! run really fvu-ther north than Butte, and they made a detour ajhd came around to Butte on a (me hundred and fifty feet grade to the mile a dis- tance of one hundred and three miles long, when there was a cut and! practical route thirty-four miles nearer and much more easily construct- ed: and when it was claimed by the people of that community that there was a cut and i)ractica! route, the friends of this community said tliat we were misrepresenting that fact, that we had no pass there: and one of the engineers of the .Morthern Pacific Railroad told me that in the Pipe- stone Pass there were twenty-seven miles of one hvmdred and twenty-one feet grade, and when he agreed with me as to the elevations between the Three Forks and the Pipestone Pass I showed him that a:t Three Forks 750 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES he would be over three hundred and filty feet under ground; and then he turned around and said he was mistaken as to it being on that side, but that it was sixteen miles on the Butte side, and when we agreed on the elevations I showed liim that thirteen miles and a half from the Pipestone Pass he would be a Ihousand feet under ground. Now, how did it happen that a man whose business was engineering should have such a mistaken notion abotit the pass that had been so much talked aJjout as that? I say to these gentlemen here that those people on our side of the range have felt that this comminiity in its selfishness had misrepresented them somewhat in these matters. The gentleman spoke about distin- guished visitors — Senatorial visitors here — who advised him upon consti- tutional law. I notice those gentlemen were here and they went up to Marysville to see the mines of Montana Territory. They were the guests of citizens of Helena but they did not come to Butte. And there were a couple of distinguished gentlemen who went to Anaconda the other day. Mr. Maiginnis of Lewis & Clarke: If they did not go to Butte it was not because we did not urge them. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Well, I know they went to Marysville and they did not come to Butte. I know they could see more of the different kinds of mining in Butte in one day than they can see in all the rest of Montana in a month. Mr. Maginnis of I^ewis & Clarke: That is what we told them. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I will say this of Major Maginnis, that while he has been a local patriot to Helena he has been a generous and noble friend of Montana. (Applause). What is said here about officiat- ing here and getting Jay Gould to build a railroad to Butte, I do know something about that. I know what the proposition was at that time, that while it was to be built within six miles of Butte it was to be built to Helena, and Montana was to exempt it through taxation for ten years. That is the time that we started in sometime before upon the railroad question to agree at Deer Lodge that there should be a million dollars of subsidy given to the railroad, and we thought then that the railroad was to be built to Three Forks at Gaffne>'s on the Jefferson Fliver or about the junction of the Big Hole and the Beaverhead, why we found out that that railroad was projected to go up by Henry's I^ake and down across over this way to Helena and was not to strike another town in its round through Montana Territory. We might go back into a good many things of that kind — and the gentlemen when the time at last came and they could not get any railroad in that direction — although I believe at that time the Union Pacific Company thought there was more profit to be made in building a railroad up within forty miles of the Geysers than there was l cannot obtain it we shall feel al liberty to vote for any other place that we see fit, and we shall not feel that we are stealing the capitol from Helena; and when we have got through with this thing I hope that the Helena people wont be like a child that cannot have its own way and then say we wont play "State" at all any more; we will jus,t vote against your constitution; we will spend one hundred thousand dollars to defeat your constitution if you do not let us have the capitol." \\'hy, when you have got yourself into tiiat state of mind it is time the capitol was talien away temporarily for a little while, and let you understand that you do not own the capitol — that it belongs to the people, and that we represent the people of Mon- tana here in this convention. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I have listened with considerable degree of interest tt) the discussion of this matter of the capitol. Coming from a part of the territory that is not at the present time making an effort to have the capitol located there, I believe I have been able to look upon the matter with somewhat of a feeling of disinterestedness: but it seems to me the way the niatter is working, this convention is resolving itself into a free-for-all race, in which already the cities of Helena, Butte, .\naconda. Oreat Falls, Bozeman and other places have been entered: and I do not know before we get through but that there will be fifty others and in- stead of placing the matter in the light of what is best for the interests of the State of Montana — what the people want as to where the capitol is to be located it is resolving itself into a local fight either from local pride or else from the hope of material gain by reason of having a capitol located in some one of these respi'clive cities. .\ow, it occurs to me that the matter resolves itself right down to this. Do the necessities of the territory of Montana at the present time demand the removal of the capi- tol or is it not the part of wisdom to let it stay where it is until by a vote of the people, as provided in the rest of this article, it is determined where it shall be permanently located. (Applause in the galleries). Helena has no rival claim to the capitol so far as the capital of the state is concerned. It is true she has possession of it now, but possession of it does not give her ownership, and the mere evidence of possession is not a valid title. What claim has Anaconda to the capitol? She presents her representatives here, coming from a nice little city of six or seven thou- sand people. They have the largest smelting works on the face of the earth there: they have an elegant new hotel, and have a nice little city started. Butte City comes in as a competitor. What claim does she lay for it? The question is are we going to consider the separate claims of these different cities for the capitol, or shall we consider what are and should be the best interests of the State of Montana? Let the capital stay where it is, and where the people vote upon this question they will determine where the permanent capitol should go. (Applause in the gal- leries.) It seems to me like a waste of time that we should quibble over ibis matter a whole day and probably two or three days before we get through with it. It is simply because persons representing certain locali- ties have some little pique or jealous feeling against the city of Helena. So far as I am pei'sonally concerned I talked upon another subject the other day, and did assert upon the floor of this convention that in my judgment the people of Helena had shown themselves selfish to their in- terests and industries outside of this county, and for that reason I believe it would be as fair to place the thirteen counties of this state in a posi- tion where they should have a representation equal to that of the three others, rather than to allow the three to control for all time the thirteen. But does that question arise? Does it matter to us from the fact of the capital being located in Helena, whether the people here are selfish or not? Does it seem like good judgment and good sense to say here, because we have some little pique or quarrel with the city of Helena that we will remove the capital temporarily over to Butte for two or three or four years, or to Anaconda, or over perhaps to the Great Falls of the Missouri? It was a matter that certainly was not made an issue in electing delegates to this convention. So far as my knowledge goes it was not mentioned in the county from which I came, and I am unable to stand on this floor and tell how any single person in my county would vote upon the subject if the matter was submitted to them today. I do not believe that Custer County or Yellowstone County or any other county, for the best inter- ests of the territory, demands that this thing shall be placed upon wheels and dragged over to Anaconda or to Butte or anywhere else. I do not care 752 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES anything about the claims nf llnlena. 11 has no better right or claim tlian any other city has, but 1 do care what appears to me to be the best interests of the State of Montana, and I do not think it is the part of wis- dom to lumber up the constitution with any provision of this kind. It seems to me the motion of .Major Maginnis should prevail, that that pari of that section be stricken out. It has been suggested by the gentleman from Silver Bow, Judge Knnwles, that if you strike that out it perma- nently locates the capital in Helena, I will leave it to any other lawyer who will read the rest of the article if that is a fact. It does nothing of the kind. The whole article provides as to how the matter shall bo submitted to the people, and there shall not be a permanent location until the majority of all the people have determined upon one location. The argument that has been made here today, or the major part of it, simply relates to what the city of Helena has — what inducements it can hold out why the capitol should stay here. We hear the same kind of thing from Anaconda, They come here with a promise to furnish free of chargi' rooms, and baths I sup|iose ilaughter), and all that sort of thing for the legislature. Butte will come over here I presume with the same thing; it has not been entirely heai'd fi'om yet. I was not here a week ago Sat- urday and did not hear what my friend, Mr. Collins, had to say about the matter, but I presume they have good inducements to hold out at Great Falls for the legislature and the state officers to go over there. But are those reasons that we should consider as statesmen here as to the tem- porary location of the capitol? Is there any reason why it siu)uld be changed? Is there any demand on the part of the people for an imme- diate change? If not what is the sense in it, and what is it but a waste of time? Men appear upon this floor here and talk for an hour telling what their city is and what they have and what they have been doing and what they are going to do, and what a nice place it would be for the capital. We people down in the eastern part of the territory do not give the snap of the finger for anything of the kind. The question is, when it is permanently located let it be where it will be the most convenient for all the people: let it be localed somewhere where it can be constructed, where material can be had readily. There are a thousand and one things that may enter into the consideration as to the best place to locate it, but I do not think that any of the inducements that have been iield out today are reasons or arguments at all in favor of locating it anywhere or leaving it in the city of Helena: but what I do say is, that it is good enough for the present and until the people have by their votes deter- mined where it shall be located peiinanently, to let it stay where it is, (Applause). Mr. Gibson of Cascade: I am in favor of settling this question of the temporary capital here and now, and I am ready to vote upon the ques- tion. When it is presented I shall vote in favor of Helena. (.Vpplause in the galleries), I shall do it because I consider under the present facilities for traveling, under the present railway system of the state, that the city of Helena is the best place for it, (Applause in the galleries^ .Xnd I con- sider that Helena will be the best place for it until the center of popula- tion has materially changed. I hardly believe that there is a man on this floor that will not say in his own mind candidly, if this question is sub- mitted to him that Helena is today centrally located in the Territory of Montana, I can see no good in attempting to remove the capital fi'om this place at this time. The time may come, and if the quest ion is deter- mined according to the report of the committee, the time may be then, five or six years hence when it will be expedient to change the capital from this place. Possibly it may be so, but I sinceiely belie\e tiial if the time ever comes for changing the capital from Helena to another place it will not be over the range of the Rockies, but on the contrary, that the popular voice of the state will demand its location over fh(> Belt range of mountains. I do not believe that gentlemen in this cmivention appre- ciate the resources of that country from the other side of the Belt range of mountains. It is a vast coimtry. It is capable of supporting an im- mense population. It has one of the most extensive mining districis on the face of the earth — I refer to the Little Belt I'ange of mmuitains. That coimtry abounds in coal for a distance of one hundred miles alon;.' the Belt Range of the mountains, and its coal unsurpassed in the western coimtry. It is fu]\ of ii'on. It has agricultural districis moi'o ex- tensive than any other part of Montana, and for that reason it is capable of supporting an immense impulalinn, II has water powei'. II is in llie CO.VSTITUTIOXAL CO.WENTION 1889 753 center of the best stork ranclii's of Mimlana, and in my inil2-nniMil. it lias all the matciial resources to make this eountry the other side lif the Helt range of nmuntains a great empire. Now, I believe in putting this time off SIX or eight years, and I hen when the center of population is more clearly determined, we can define where the temporary capital shall be. But at present I am decidedly in favor of leaving the capital here at Helena. (Applause in the galleries . Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: I desire to have the indulgence of the Chair and of the gentlemen of this committee for a few brief remarks upon this subject. It has been stated that this is a sort of free-for-all race, and it seems to be so. and I am g-lad that it is so. If I understand the proposition before this committee, it is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cascade to change the time at which this ques- tion of fixing the capital permanently shall be submitted to the people of Montana, and I believe if I am not mistaken that that amendment comprehends a period of about four years or at the second meeting of the legislature after the adoption of this constitution. I believe if I am not mistaken it is intended to ami'ud this section as it has been amended, that this question shall be submitted at the first regular session of the legislature after the adoption of the constitution, and while the gentle- men have wandered off from this s>ibject and have been discussing the respective merits of the several counties of this territory for capital hon- ors. I wish to say a word with reference to the main question, and I may wanderoff myself before I get through with my few remarks. I am opposed to the postponement of this question any longer than may be prac- ticable. It has been discussed here as to whether this conention has the powers, upon legal grounds, to change this capital. That I believe has been pretty fully considered, and it is generally believed that it has the power to change it temporarily. Now. if this be the case it may be a misfortune, although I see nothing about this change of the capital or the removing of the capital that has any insurmountable difficulty about it — we have no state buildings: there is nothing to permanently bind down this capital at any particular point, and it is a matter of very easy con- sequence to move it from one section of the country to the other under the present condiiton of things. Now. this being the case, I am in favor of submitting the question to the people of this territory whose sovereign right it is to say where the capital shall be placed permanently: this Ijeiiig the fact, the quicker we submit that question to the people of the territory and let them exercise their sovereign will upon this subject the better. (■Applauses Now. I am in favor of submitting this question at the first meeting of the legislature after this constitution shall have been adopted, for another reason, if as the gentleman has suggested, the capitol of the state is going to travel upon wheels, the meeting of the legislature and the residences of the state officers will be disadvantageous in some places which probably would not present such advantages as a temporary capi- tal as might or would be advantageous in considering the permanent location of the capitol. There can be no good reasons urged, in my opin- ion, why the capitol of the state should not be fixed at as early a date as possible on financial grounds. It is easy- to arrive at a probable center if this he a question to be considered — a center of population that will be obtained probably for a great number of years to come. If it be con- tended that this stale is not able to fix the permanent capital and estab- lish its state buildings. I would say to you that we have a rich common- wealth, a great state, with over one hundred millions nf capital, and if it progress at the same rate that has characterized its progress in the last few years we may look forward towards the establishment of this capital in the most limited time that may seem desirable. We may look at least for a doubling of the wealth of the state, and this cannot be considered an objection to fixing the capital and eslablishing the state buildings, whenever the sovereign will of the people of Montana shall determine that question. Now. I listened with a great deal of pleasure to the speeches of the gentlemen from the various localities of !\Iontana. and I admire the loyalty and (he devotion and I may say the patriotism of those gentlemen in describing the merits and advantages of their re- spective localities. I recall to my mind the speech of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke who depicted in glowing and eloquent language the ad- vantages of the city of Helena. If is a notorious fact that the people of the city of Helena are known all over this country as among the most enterprising, liberal and energetic people to be found in all the western oounfry or any other part of the United States. (Applause in the gal- 754 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES lerieS'. 1 have no f(>eling ijut kindness for the pedple of Helena, f commend their enterprise and their energy and tlieii' liberality and a great many tilings, a.s is instanred here hy the money that was raised a day or two ago for a stricken sister city. Now, I concur with the gen- tleman, my learned friend from Bozeman, with regard to the advantages of Bozeman and the great potatoes that may be grown there. I concur with the gentleman from Deer Lodge with regard U> the advantages that liis city of Anaconda presents. They are an enterprising people. They liaxe built up there the most gigantic plant for the reduction of ores that is to be found anywhere in this world. I agree with him as to the health- fulness of the climate and the purity of the waters. I agree with other gentlemen who have spoken here about the advantages of their respect- ive localities; but I say to you, Mr. Chairman, that there are advantages which may be claimed, that overshadow all of these, by the magic city id' Siher Bow County. ( Applause'. I I'ccall to my mind a little speech that was made by my intelligent friend from Custer County (Dr. Bur- leigh i, who is generally right on most of the propositions that have been discussed in this convention, when he alluded to a visit he made recently, or sometime in the last year, to the silver city whei-ein he was troubled a great deal with the smoke. I believe that the gentleman must have been laboring under a fit of dyspepsia or something of that kind. (Laughter). It might have been that during the visit of this distin- guished gentleman there had settled ovei' the city by reason of the calm- ness in the air, which sometimes happens, a little smoke, but I say to the gentleman within the last several months he might have visited there and not have met with this disatlvantage or disagreeable feature. The gentleman said that he smelt sulphur over there. H(! said it was too sug- gestive of the future. I havi' no doubt sulphur seems to be suggestive of Sheol, and probably the gentleman from Custer is a little tender upon that subject. (Laughter'. I am renunded to suggest also to this gentle- man that I believe he is an admirer of the ladies, and I must say that the ladies are very fond of this smoky city, as it is sometimes called, because there is just enough arsenic there to give them a beautiful com- plexion, and that is the reason the ladies of Butte are renowned where- ever they go for their beautiful complexions. (Laughter). I believe this \Aill be urged — because the interests of the ladies are paramount to everything else — as one reason why the capital should be at Butte. Now, talking about this smoke, I believe there are times when fhei'e is smoke settling over the city, but I say it would be a great deal better for other cities in (he territory if they had more smoke and less diphtheria and other diseases. It tuis boon believed by all the physicians of Butte that the smoke that sometimes prevails there is a disinfectant, and destroys the microbes that constitute the germs of disease. I believe the gentle- man is pretty well posted on that matter, and while it is disagreeable, it is an advantage in some respects, and it would be a great advantage foi' the other cities, as I ha\e said, (o have a little more smoke and busi- ness activity and less disease. Now, I am not one of those that believe in trying to establish the prosperity or the reputation of one place by pulling down that of another, and I am soi'ry that there has been mani- fested upon this floor a little disposition to criticise, perhaps a little too ssverely the actions o( people who may happen to live in any one locality. I say a man might jusi as well tiy to estalilish his repidation by traducing that of his ncighboi- and we know that this generally results in a signal failure. T heli(>\e in the great I'ace for prosperity, for wtalth and (or glory on belialf of the cities of this Territory, bid (hey should not go into the race handicapped, nor should they (ry to build their respective places up by culminating and belying other.--. I should like to see the cily of Helena contain a quarter of a million of people: it would be so much the better for Butte. I should like to si'e Anaconda grow and prosper: it would be an advantage (o Bu(((>: and i still say right hiM-r in regard to the town of .\nacouiia, (ha( it has neen staled that there is feeling bftween these two cities, and that .\naconda is jealous of B\dt(', and B\dfe is jealous of .\naconda. T only say this (o that the city of .\naconila is a i)rogeni(or of Hutle (".ity, (he necessary auxiliary and the outgrowth of the great mining industries of Butte, and its leading (dti/.ens are citizens of Butt(> and have been id(idified with l^idte in many ways, and (he mos( friendly feelings exist Iheie among the people of each jdace. each towards the olliei-. Unite CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 755 jealous of Anaconda! Hutte is jealous of none of them. Buttp can afford to he magnanimous and she is not jealous of any of them. I wish that Deer l,iidf;e. that (ireaf Kails, that all the towns of this Territory might grow up, that we might join together here to build up a great integral whole lather than to (ear each other lo pieces. Whatever tends to develop one ?oction contributes to the prosperity ol (he entire Territory or State. V.h;ile'\er tends to promote the interests of any one town of this lerritorj |)iomotes the interests of this Territory, however reinote it may lie. I ti'uld wish that the beautiful turfs, tlie sweet flowers and the rippling waters of those streams in this modern Arcadia that have been, so beautifully portrayed by my learned friend from (4allatiu could be wafted to d'-light and soothe the one hundred thousand inhabitants in the beautiful \alley of Gallatin. I trust we may work to the common end. that we may develop the State here and rise above that feeling which would seek to have us detract from the inlerests of any one particular locality. But.' now. to return to the subject matter of my remarks. I desire to say to you that Butte does present advantages for the temporary or p(.Tman->nt location of the capital, as the case may be, and I may say that while J have reasonable hopes that this temporary capital will be locatec' at Butte, I am willing notwithstanding that fact to say that it shall be submitted as early as possible to the people of the State, and let them decide it, for to them the question belongs, ^^'e have over there in Silver Bow County a city of double the size of any other, I believe, in this Territory. It has the name of being the greatest producer of the precious metals of any city upon the face of the earth, ^^■e know this, that it does produce more than one-half of all the precious metals, of the valuable metals. I may say, of the Territory of Montana, It possesses all the advantages that pertain to any city in the Territory. We have pure water; we have churches: we have a refined and elevated society. We have all the advantages which pertain to any civilized city wherever you go in these United States. Now*, we shall make no special claim but we have advantages that have been claimed for all of these other cities and m addition to that we have the center, we may say, of the popula- tion, or probably as nearly as the city of Helena, V\'e have there a rail- road center that will not be surpassed in a short time by any place In this Territory. And the gentlemen have alluded to the fact that Helena people have built a road to Butte, but I say that the object of building that road to Butte was because Butte had her minerals and other articles for furnishing that road transportation, and w-hile due credit should be given to the gentlemen who invested capital to build it there. I say that Butte is lo he commended because she has the power to draw the rail- roads to her. We are now- upon the line of this road that is going in a short time no doubt to be extended to the Pacific Coast, and then it w-ill be part of a great highway, and the beautifully equipped coaches and dining cars that stop there now" will go on their way to the Pacific Coast. We are now, or will be very soon, on the great highw-ay of the Northern Pacific Railway, for they ha\ e concluded to build from Bozeman through to Butte, and I have no doubt will extend on to Gallatin, ^^o it will be as well as Helena upon the great highway of that road: and the Union Pacific that is furnishing facilities for building up that longer than any other great trunk line is about to extend or make connection with the Pacific Coast; so that in a very short time we will be upon three great lines of railway extending from the east to the west; and it is a well known fact that a Chicago and Northwestern road now- building into Dakota Territory near the Black Hills is extending out w-estward ami has Montana in view-; and w-ithin perhaps two years we shall have the Chicago and Northwestern road that w-ill penetrate a country over here that is noted for its grasses and for its fuel, its coals and wood, that is almost terra incognita at present and it will open the country extending from the Madison Valley through to the Sw'eetwater country, and make it trib- utary to Butte. So that none of these roads that come into this Territory can afford to miss Butte, because she has the prosperity to draw them to her. Why. the books show that Butte last vear paid to the various railroad companies over three millions of dollars for freight alone. I say that in the consideration of this question where we shall locate, temporarily or permanently, the capital of the State of Montana, the claims of Butte. I consider and believe candidly and firmly, to be para- mount to those of all others, and I stand here today to support her claims, to advocate her cause and shall vote for the establishment tem- 756 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES poi'arily. and, of troursi', when il, cinncs up lor piTmanciil adoptiuu Ihe people there will have something to say ahout that themselves, and I will be one of them, I hope. And I shall vote lor the permanent location of the capital there. I will not detain yon any longer with my remarks, but simply desire to put myself upon record here on these questions and without wishing to detract from Helena or any other place, I consider it my first duty to stand here and claim as I can justly proclaim the advantages of Butte for this temporary location of the capital. -Mr. Burleigh, of Custer: 1 desii'e to detain the convention only a moment for the purpose of explanation. My friend states that when I was in Butte last year during those positive and noxious exhalations from their furnaces that I was laboring under dyspepsia. I admit that I was not feeling well, and I regret exceedingly that my friend was not there at the time. I was not only laboring under an attack of dyspepsia but of a difficulty of breathing and some nervous prostration, and I have no doubt my friend will sympathize with me in those feelings when I state that it was just after the October election. (Laughter and applause'' Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I have no desire to ijrolong the discus- sion which has seemed to me to have wandered widely and very mate- rially from the guestion under discussion and consideration by this committee. I believe that my ornate friend from Lewis \' Clarke County, Major Maginnis, who is usually very clear and usually in the habit of sticking to the text as close as a young dude to his first girl or a pitch plaster to a tight board has certainly digressed. If I understand the proposition that has been discussed, that is being discussed before this committee at the present time, it is one that has already been settled by this committee, and unless there is a motion to reconsider that propo- sition« and it comes up in successive terms after being voted down time and again ad infinitum, there is no end to it and we will keep repeating the dose both in argument and vote. If I understand, the convention has already fixed that proposition by filling in the blank in Ibis Proposi- tion No. 18, by its vote in this Commitfe(> of the Whole, insi'rling the word .Vnaconda. Then, if that is the case, this committee has settled the question that has been so much discussed, that we have been enter- tained by the gentlemen for hours and hours upon. The committee by its vote last week settled the question by filling in that blank the word Anaconda, as the place where the temporary capital of Montana should be until its final location by the voice of the people. I believe I am correct as to that vote. Then, if that is the case, why the necessity of this pi'olonged discussion as to which place is proper for the temporary capital of Montana, and whether or not this convention has the power to change it, from Helena oi' not? If T am correct upon this proposition, why the necessity of the prolonged discussion upon this proposition that has been indulged in by the committee, unless it, be upon the hypothesis as I suggested that the committed has unlimited power to vote upon this and to imdo what it has done by a subsequent vote, without a reconsidera- tion, to amend by filling in some other place, and so on without end, which I do not understand it is the jjower of the committee to do. But once it has been voted upon and fixed.l that ends so far as the committee is concei'ned and brings it back info the convention for its consideration. Now, then, if I understand it correctly, the question under consideration now is whether or not it is expedient for the first Legislative .\ssembly aftei- the formation of the State government to provide for an innnediafe suliniission of this question to the peO]ili> of the State, or whether or not it is contemplati^d in the jn'oposition as reported by the connnittei^ it shall he submitted by Ihe third Legislative Assemlily that may couM'ue art(>r the adoption of this constitution, or whether or not the amendment by the gentleman from Cascade, by inserting the section, shall be sub- stituted. That. T luiderstand, is Ihe whole proposition before this com- mittee, upon which proposition I propose to spi'ak. I do not lielime, sir, that it is expedient to delay the submission of this question for the ten years. I do not agree with Tny friend, Mr. Rickards, from Silver Bow Coimty, that it would be well to retain it as it is in the report of the committee, that is, the third session after the ailoplion of this constitu- tion, Let lis for a inomi'nt glance at it and see what that will lead us to. It is contemplated in Ihe framing of this constilufion and thi> Enabling Act of Congri'ss that llii' first Legislali\e .\ssemhly is to mei't this fall, prohalily in November or December. If that is the case, it will be the lirsl session id' the Legislative .^ssemhlv- i<\' the State of Montana. Then, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 757 if it is to bi' submitted at the next general election after that session, that next general election, as I understand it. would fall probably in the month of November, eighteen hundred and ninety, a year from this com- ing November. If it is to be submitted after the meeting of the second Legislative .\ssembly. that would bring it in November, eighteen hundred and ninety-two. for submission— that is. that Legislature would provide for it: and" if it is to be taken up and provided for by the third Legislative .\ssi'nibly, which would make it ten years before this proposition could be submitted to the people, that is before a final vote would be taken on the proposition embodied in this proposition, that if at the first Hleciion there could not be a vote or a majority of the people for one particular place, which in all probability would be the case, and there is not a majority of all the votes for one place, then it shall be submitted ^t the ni'xt subsequent election of the State which will prolong the definite settlement of the question two years longer, and then the two placps having the highest number of votes at the first election shall be vol til for. So that if we are to take it as the report of the committee is. it will be ten years before this question can be settled at all. If, on the other hand, we are to provide that the first Legislative Assembly shall provide for the submission of this question to a vote a year from next fall. then, in all probability it will be two years or three years from this coming fall before this capital question can be settled, because the probabilities are nineteen to one that the first election that will be held on that proposition, the different places will be voted for and that no one place will have a majority of the entire vote of the State. Then, I say. ihaf if the first Legislative Assembly provides for submitting this to a vote a' the next general election as contemplated in this article, that the probabilities are nineteen to oni' that the question will not be settled until three years from next fall, in any event it cannot he settled until one year from next fall, which would be long enough in my opinion to leave the qnestinn unsettled. I do not understand, sirs, that we are here to lake the chances particularly, and to legislate or to act in this convention upon the game of chance or the probabilities as to what the fluctuating population of the State may be ten or twenty years from now. If we defer it for twenty years in view of anticipation, why under the same rule not defer if for fifteen or twenty years longer"? Our State govern- ment is not formed on the basis of probabilities and what we would be ten years from now. but is formed on the basis of our present population. If we are able to support a State government we should build and locate our capital within a reasonable time after our State government has been formed. Then. I say. that I think upon this propo- sition the only thing for this committee to consider at the present time ' is wliether or not the first Legislative Assembly shall provide for sub- mitting this question to a vote of the people of the State at the next ensuing election after that, or whether it shall be the second or third Legislative Assembly. My judgment dictates to me that the first Legis- lative Assembly should make a proposition for a submission of this capital question to a vote of the people at the next general election ensuing thereafter, which would bring it in November, eighteen hundred and ninety. This much for that part of the proposition. But upon the panegyrics that have been indulged in by those ornate gentlemen in favor of their particular townis in the Territory. I happen to represent a place that so far as any action of this convention is concerned. I might say. and I might feel. has. by ringing the changes, mutatis mutandis, that he who has not the freedom to fight for home let him fight for his neighbors, let him think of the glories of Greece and of Rome, and yet let him knock on his head for his labors. Sir. I represent a towTi that has none of these glories, but an humble village: but still I am fighting lor the freedom and the glory of my neighbors, and in doing that. sir. I shall not allow the ornate gentlemen to disturb me in expatiating upon the greatness of these places. Yes. sir: I do realize that Helena is a great town indeed. Aye. sir. she is a noble city: aye. sir. an ignoble city. Her many admirers and advocates upon this floor have omitted many things in summing up her excellencies. They have certainly overlooked the excellency of her old bourbon that I can testify to myself. Then, sir. fhev have overlooked the proposition that they have added to the geographv of the country that has been taught in the public schools, tliat when the pupils are asked what is the greatest city of the United States they are required to say "Helena." I agree with them upon that. 758 1'1{0(JEEL)L\(;^; AND DEBATES sir, but, sir, they have gone further, they have added to tin' Decalogue an eleventh commandment. I do not know whether it is a fact, but I have been advised that it is taught in the schools, at the Sunday schools and at the family hearth stones, to the children that they must repeat "None of thy shekels shall fly to the w^est side of the mountains." They have been true upon these propositions. Therefore, sirs. I can say (hat Helena possesses a great people. It is true, sir, and I will go further than my learned friend. Major .Maginnis, T believe that but for Helena there would lie little of .Alonlana 'J erritorx'. I am i-eady to go upon my kni'es and with uplifted eyes and hands thank my stais that there is such a idaci' as Helena, and that we owi' all the blesseilness we enjoy to Heli-na. I admit that Butte would have been insignificani but for Helena, as suggested by my friend. Major Maginnis. a fact that I was not awai'e of before that the North-Pacific Railroafl would not have been built, sir, but for the fact of the suggestion of the Helena people that there was a country over there. They would not have gone there to see whether there was a mining country or not but for the suggestion of my friend that 1 have been intimate with for twenty odd years, and I know he tells the truth — that he suggested it to them. .Vnother thing, sir, that I am satisfied of. and tbali is. that but for the suggestions of Helena, the President of this convention, whom I regard as having given the mines there Iheii' first impetus by risking one himdred and fifty thousand dollars of his own money in the first nuning enterprise established there. I believe, sir. that it was Helena that suggested all that to him. and that he never would have thought of it but for Helena. Helena inspired the President of this convention to give mining its first impetus there. I l)elieve, sir. but for Helena in her endeavors ten years ago. or twelve years ago. who encouraged (his consideration of railroads that we would have had but the North-Pacific Railroad in Montana today, and the building of that WHS impelled by a gigantic subsidy from the United States — the North- Pacific would be the only railroad in Montana but for the efforts. I say. of Helena ten or twelve years ago to encourage the construction of rail- roads in Montana. Yes sir, in the assemblages of Montana. I can remem- ber as I see it around me today that whenever a proposition that most favored Helena struck the hearts of the people T could hear the \ibrafions there then as I do today. But for the plaudits that came from (he galleries fiom the fair and unfair of Helena, to encourage the construc- tion of railroads, that Utah and Northern would never have been built. We ov\'e all, 1 am willing to acknowledge, that we owe all we have or ever will have to Helena. Then I would not allow' the gentlemen to disturb me in my need of ))raise for w-hat Helena has done. We. the balance of us, are humble adjuncts and seconders of the motion of Helena. We are willing to contribute our mite to Helena as w-e have always done, and I believe they have (hanked us for it. We admire 'lelcna, but nevertheless. I suggest this, that the Helena people have not begotten any mutual admiration society. Now. then, if we will cut for ourselves outside of Helena we will create an admiration by Helena for us. And if we do that we will mutually admire each o(her. We admire people here, and we want to make them admire us a little. I do not believe that they have had a great deal of admiration for us before, but I propose, sir, so far as my vote is concerned to make Helena admire us a little on (ho west side of (he moimtains. although she has made us. I say, sir, that wherever the lions of Helena have helche'd forth their' roars, I hear the echoing plaudits coining from (he sacred ci(y. This is all right in humching forth those enconinms but still it is no reason why we should nr.twithstanding these things act independently for o\u'selves: anrl as has been suggested by members on that branch of the proposition, why. this great metropolis should not be the capital of the State on account of the corrupting tendencies and influences and pressure of those things. Why. thi' place where there is the reg\ilar chance for these things to occur is the better place for the capital. Now. sii-. upon that proposition T am thoroughly in accord with that view of it. tliat is. T have seen the pressures brought to bear right in this town. I have seen pressures brought to bear on Legislalive Assemblies, where f could say to a positive certainty that where they have a deeji intei'est upon a Legislature not one in five of those liCgislatures would e\er own itself or dare to speak its own feelings. With all due deference to the firnmess of man I have seen that occur right, in this city. T have seen measures proposed in the Legislative Assembly here that if there had been a fail' CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 750 discussion of (hem among' the members alone, cut loose from outside influences, tiie measure would not have received one vote in five of the Assembly: yet I saw those pressures brought to bear by the business men of this to\Mi — influencial men — men who understand those things and ways of handling men. They have been brought to bear, and I have seen the men yield and go away one by one. My friend, Marrion, who is looking at me, has seen the same thing, and knows it as well as I do. They would go away until these outside pressures in the town would secure a majority of them. That is one of the effects of having the capital in a place where there is as much influence for evil as there is here, that is, if this place is as great as her orators are willing to consider her. Then, gentlemen. I do not desire to rting in lieu thereof thi' woi-ds "Butlr City". Mr. Clark, of Silver Bow: I second that molion. i'lie Chairman: The question is on the motion ot (he gentleman from Silver Bow to sti'ike out Bozeman and insert Butte City. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Rickards and a division being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of twenty-eight in the affirmative to thirty-seven in the negative. (Applause in the galleries'^ The Chairman: The question now is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Gallatin to insert Bozeman. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Gallatin and a division being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of thirty-six in the affirmative to twenty-one in the negative. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the section. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: T move the following amendment: Strike out in line three the word "permanent" and insert "temporary", and strike nut in line four "majority" and insert "plurality": so that at the first election we shall vote upon the temporary location of the seat of government. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of lln^ gentleman from Cascade (Mr. Collins: and a vote iDeing taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Warren, of Silver Bow: I now renew my motion to adopt the section. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Warren) and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendment to Section 2. the Clerk read Section 3 as follows: Section 3. When the seat of government shall ha\e been located as herein provided, the location thereof shall not thereafter be changed, except by a vote of two-thirds of all the qualified electors of the State voting on that question at a general election, at which the question of the location of the seat of government shall have been sub- mitted by the Legislative .Vssembly. There being no amendment to Section 3. the Clerk read Section i, as follows: Section 4. The Legislative .\ssi'mbly shall make no appro- priations or exijenditures for capital builrlings or grounds until the seat of government shall have been permanently located as herein provided. Thei'e being no amendment to Section 4, the Clerk read Section '>. as follows: Section 5. The se\era! counties of thi^ State shall pr-ovide, as may be prescribed by law. for those inhabitants who. by reason of age, infirmity or other misfortune, may have claims upon thi> sympathy and aid nf society. Mr. Rickards. of Silver Bow: T move that when the conuiiittep rise ihey reijort back Proposition No. 18 with the recommendation that as amended it d(i pass, and that the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman fi'om Silver Bow Mr. Rickards^ and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. 762 I'HOCEEDI.NOS A.MJ DEBATES I.N CONVENTION. The President, in the Chair. The convention was called to order. The Chairman of the Committee of thn Whole r'eported to the Presi- dent. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the W'holi' desires a few minutes in which to make a reiiort. If there he no objection thr time will be granted. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: .\wait,ing the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole I move that the convention take a rrcess of ten minutes. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Rickards'i and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess at 5:4.5 P. M.. of ten minutes. The convention was called to order at 5:55 by the President. Mr. Hershfield sent up a report of the Committee of the Whole. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of tlie Whole rciiorts as follows. The Clerk will read the report. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, yo4 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES MavgfM-, McAdow. Miililielim, Mitchell. Myers. Parberrv, HotwitI, Toole, J. k.; Watson, Witter— 40. Aosont: Webster' — 1. Paired: Joy. Muth— 2. The Chair annovinccd the vote and di'clared the nKilinn dl Ihe trentle- niaii from Deer Lodg-e lo amend as lost. Mr. Parberry, of Meapher: I move that we now take a recess until eight o'clock. The nwition was seconded. Mr. Cardwell. nf .Jefferson: I I'enew my amendment thai I sent up to the President's desk. The President: That will be in ordfr when the motion to taki' a reco.Ks is disposed of. The Chair put the question on the motion of the pentleman from Meagher (Mr. Parberry^ that the convention take a recess until eight o'clock and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The gentleman from Jefferson offers an amendment as follows: Amend Section 2, line ten. by inserting "Boulder City" in place of "Bozeman". Mr. Cardwell, of Jefferson: I move the adoption of the nmenrtment. The motion was seconded. 1'he Chair stated the motion. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be eidered on the .journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Brazleton. Breen, Bullard, Callaway, Cardwell, Collins. Cnurt- ney. Fields, Hammond, Hatch. Hogan. Joyes, Knowles, Maginnis, Marrion. Mitchell. Parberry, Ramsdell, Robinson, Schmidt, Stapleton, Whitehill. Winston, Mr. President — 24. .\ays: Aiken, Bickford, Browne, Buford, Burleigh. Burns. A. F.: Burns, A. J.; Burns. Edward: Carpenter. Cauby. Chessman, Conrad,' Cooper, Cra- ven, Dixon. Durfee, Dyer, Eaton, (iayionl, (iibson, Gillrtte, (ioddard. Graves. Hartman. Haskell. Hershfield. Hickman, Hobson, Kanouse, Ken- nedy. Knippenherg. Kohrs. Loud, Luce, Marshall, Mayger, Mc.\dow, Mid- dleton, Myers, Reek, Rotwitt, Rickards, Sargent. Toole, J. R.; Toole. Jos. K.: Warren. Watson, Witler — 'i8. Paired: Joy, Muth — 2. .'\bsent : Webster — I . The Chair announced th.' Mile and ileclarecj the motion of the gentle- man from Jefferson lost. Mr. Fields, of Park: I move to ann'ml by inserting the city of "Liv- ingston" in place of "Bozeman". The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. .Mr. Fields, of Park: I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be im objeclidn the ayes and nays will lie entered in the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vole stood as follows: .\yes: Bickford. Breen, Burns, Kdward: Callaway. irauli\', Collins, Durfee, Eaton. Fields, Haskell. Hatch. Hogan. Knowles. Kohrs. Maginnis. Marrion, Mitchell, Mvers, Parberrv, Rotwilt. Ricknrds, Sargent. Schmidt. Warren, Whitehill, Winston— 26. Nays: Aiken, Brazleton, Browne, Bufm-d, BuUaiil. Burleigh. Burns, A. F.: Biu'ns, A. J.; Cardwell. Carpenter. Chessnnin. Conrad. Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Di.xon, Dyer, Gaylor-d, (iibson, Gillette. Goddard. Gi'aves. Hannnond, Hartman. Hershfield. tiicknian, Hol)snn. Joyes. Kanouse. Ken- nedy, Knipiienherg, Loud, Luce. Marshall. .Mayger. Mc,\dow. Middleton, Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson, Sfaiiletnn, Todle, Jos. K.; Toole, J, H.; Walson. \\'itler, Mr. President— iO. .\bsent: Webster — I. Paired: Joy, Muth— 2. The Chair annormced Ihe \ote and drclareil the motion of (U.\ gentleman frtmi Park lost. The I'r'csident: The rollowini; is olTci'i'il iiy Ihe ueiilleman from M's- soula. Mr. .Marrion. CO.NSTI ri Tlo.NAI. (■.O.WKNIIOX I8S0 TGo Ml. Ilri-ililidd III' 1,1 wis iV Clai'ki': I iiiunc. Mr. I'l'i'sldi'iil. Ilial w.' take a rciwss until im,i;IiI ci'i'luck. 'I'lic aiolidii was simmui o.l. 'I'lio Chair put the niotinn on llic saiil iimtidn nf Ihr ^;iMi(lrinaii from l.i'wis it ('lark Mr. llrrslil'iidil and a di\ i^inu licdiif;- lakoii. thi' same was cloi'lared carrit'd. Tlic I'rcsidi'iit: The Chair dc.sii'cs to aiiiicuuu'i> Hip follnwiuK spiM-ial coinii/itti'i' on Warren's ri'solulion ndatini; to lead on's: Carpoiitcr. J. K. 'I'oolc, Luce. Goddard. Conrad. The convention took a recess until S I'. M. u KnxrsD.xY. xi gi st tth. isse. ■Evening Session.'^ The convention was called to order bv the President at 8 P, M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The gentleman from Missoula Mr. Marrion' moved to amend the section by striking out the word "Bozeman" and inserting in lieu thereof the word "Missoula." Is there a second to that motion'? The motion was seconded. ■|"lie Chair stated the motion. Mr. Pai'bcrry of Meagher called for the ayes and nays. The l^resident: If Ihrre he no ob.jeclion the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll: The vote stood as follows: .\yes — Aiken. Rickford. Brazleton, Browne, Burns. A. J.: Burns. Edward: Callaway, Cardwell. Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad. Courtney. Durfee. Gaylord, Gibson, Gillette, Haskell, Hatch, Hershfield. Hickman. Hobson. Hogan, Kennedy. Knowles, Kohrs, Maginnis. Marrion. Marshall, Mavgei, Midiileton. "Mitchell. I'arberrv. Rams- dell, Reek. Robinson, Rickards, Schmidt. Toole. J. K.: Toole, J. R.; White- hill. Winston. Witter. Mr. President— 'I'l. Nays — Breen. Buford. Burleigh. Bullard, Burns. A. F.: Cauby. Cooper. Craven. Dixon. Dyer. Eaton. Fields. Goddard, Graves. Hammond. Hartman. Kanouse, Knippenberg. Loud. Luce. Mc.\dow. Myers. Rotwitt. Sargenl. Stapleton, Warren. Watson — 27. I^aired— Joy. Mulh— 2. .\bsent — Joyes. Webster — 2. The Chair annoimced the \iite and declareii the motion of the penile- man froni Missoula (Mi'. Marrion adopted. Mr. Middleton (d' Ciistei': I desire to offer an amendment. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis ct Clarke: I have an amendment on the Presi- dent's desk, the Chair will remember. The President: The Chair has several amendments here that have been offered by gentlemen from various sections w-ho favor the striking out and inserting. The convention has adopted "Missoula." No further amendment to strike "Missoula" and insert is in order. It cannot now be stricken out except by a i-econsideration of the vote. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I ask if that same thing did not hajipen as to Kvo or three otlier localities'? The President: The Chair would say to the gentleman from Custer that the other amendments were offered as amendments to the amend- ment proposed by the committee of the whole, and this amenitment prevailed. It is equivalent to the adoption of the word "Missoula" to fill the blank. It can only be reached by a reconsideration. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I understand the I'Ule to be that every section of the pro|iosition is suliject to amendment until placed on its final passage. The President: The Chair would say to the gentleman that the con- vention, having adopted any proposition or resolution, cannot change it except by a reconsideration of tlie \ote. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move to reconsider the vote by which the word "Bozeman" was stricken out and "Missoula" inserted. The motion was seconded. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I would like to ask if tlie gentleman making the motion voted in the affirmatix'e. Mr. Miildleton of Custer: Yes. sir. 76(5 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Komiedy lew wonls upon it. but it seems to me unnecessary that that pro\iso should remain in the section. It adds nothing whatever to the power of the people of the state, and takes nothing away from them. It was slated this nidrning by tlie gentleman from Gallatin Ihal it was necessary that the tiMiiporary capital be named in the conslilulicin. but I think that \ lew has been exploded. The gentleman from Silver Bow Judge Ivnowles' , while op- [losed lo that view of the question, stated to tlie convention as his opinion, that the striking out of that seclidn would lea\e Helena Ihe permanenl capital. This cannot be the facl U4ider the law. The elimination of that section Wduld leave Helena as it is lodr.y. the capilal of the lerri(of\-, subji'cl td the amendment of the legislalvu-e and the people. It would be simply a tem- porary capital. It would not be the caidtal by virtue and by force of the constitution. The President: Will the gentleman allow the (Thair to intei-rupt him a moment? The genlleman leferi'i'd to tlie striking out of Ihe sec- tion: this refers to the striking out of the proviso. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: Yes, sir. As I said that, would not leave Helena Ihe capital by virtue of any force applied to it if Ihe con stitution should be ado|ded. but simply by force of tile statute which was passed in 1874 and in this very section it is provided in any eveni that there shall be submission of the question of ni(> permanent capital to the people thi'ee years hence, as the amendment that it should be sub- mitted at the first session of the legislature was adopted. The acl of 187'i provided that the capitoi should be locati>d lat Helena, If the con- stitution is adopted, operating upon that amendment would have the effect of leaving the capito] tempoi'arily and only so long as the legisla tore or the people should favor its retention where it is. Now,, Mr. Presi- dent, the ground that the people of Helena have taken is. ,as T under- stand it, the location of the capitoi is a questiim for the peo|de. B never has been regarded simply a question for the legislature, because the legislature provides for its submission lo Ihe peo[)le. It has never been so repanled under the Organic Act. II is not regarded in any case as a conslitulional question, and the view that we lake of it is that the .judgment of Ihe people should be taken upon il, and that that ,)U(igmenl should be final, but that there should be no disposition of it without the expression of the popular will. Now the capitoi is lat Helena by force of the verdict of Ihe people. The question as to its location in Helena was submitt(>d lo the jieople in IS7'i. and tlii> people passed upon il. Now, CONSTITUTIONAL C.ONX ENIK )N lt haviiiK plai'ed i( temporarily in Helena we Hiink that no body of men shouki undertake to remove it except through (he authority of the people. 'Applause in the galleries. We would ask now that the capitol remain where the people have placed it unlil the people by their vote say thai it should be located somewhere else. Applause . That is somewhat of the claim that Helena makes. Now, that question of the location of the eapitol when Helena was selected was submitted to the people as a separate and independent proposition. That is the only way that the judgment of the people could be passed upon it. It was not intertwined and intermixed with other questions. If the place is named in this constitution so that it goes into the body of the constitution for the expression of the popular will, the people will have no opportunity to pass separately upon that question. The alternative will be presented to them either excepting this proposition which they cannot vole sep- arately upon and express their independent judgment upon, or reject the constitution that is offered. I take it that tlie people of this terri- tory desire the constitution which they can adopt, and desire questions submitted to them in such a way that they can express their judgment in a proper way upon them. This question has not been agitated by the people at all. The people have been contented that the capitol should remain where they put it until so voted by- their judgment and by their mind and the expression of their independent will to take it to some other place. If this capitol had been located at Missoula, or Anaconda, or Bozeman. or Butte, or any other pface. I for one should have taken the position that if the people put it there it should stay there until the people by their will expressed on that one subject should decide that it sliould be removed to some other place. It seems to me that upon that question, which is always a question to be submitted to the people, there should he no desire to iilace the name of the capital in this con- stitution where it shall be fixed by the constitution itself, without any opportunity for the people to express their opinion upon it. Now, Mr. President, this question is a question of importance to the people. It is a question that should he considered with care and with deliberation. I impune the motives of no man in this constitution. I assume that everv man in this body has voted honestly and conscientiously upon this ques- tion and upon all others. There is no occasion for excitement: there is no occasion for undue haste: but this question ought to be considered carefully and with miature deliberation. I do not I'ecognize the claims of any city or town in the territory to the capitol. Helena has no claim upon it in preference to any other places that I am aware of. Helena has no right to ask to be considered, nor has Anaconda, nor Butte, nor Bozeman. It is a question for the people to consider and il is nut for any one |ilace to claim the capitol or any other public bviilding. It is a ques- tion of great importance to the people. The question is not whether Helena, or Bozeman. or .\naciinda. or Butte, or Missoula or any nthei' place shall be gratified by the capitol lieing located within (lie limits of one of those places, bul wliether the interests of the people of Mi^ntana shall be better subserved by its location in one place than in another. It is the people of Montana and their interests that alone are to be consulted and considered. We assert and we think it would be the judgment of the people that for their convenience Helena would be the most eligible piece, but I may be mistaken as to what their opinion would he. It might be very different if the question were submitted to them again, but at all events we ought not to undei-take to force upon the people anything that they have never expressed their desire for. There are rea- sons which I think are strong, .showing that Helena is the most conven- ient place in the territory for the people. There are more interests and more diversity of interests here than anywhere else. No miatter how many trains may leave Anaconda, it is not for the convenience of the peo- ple to go there, simply because people go to the capital not only because they have public business at fifie capital, but because they liave some other business in connection with the public business: land w-e all know that there is scarcely a man in the territory, scarcely a sheep ranch or a cattle ranch or range but that people living in distant counties are in- terested w-ith the people of Helena in the same enterprise. Now. Mr, President, these diversified interests, no particular one predominating, give a congenial atmosphere for the capital. It is not a place where only one enterprise exists, where only one genius presides, but here the diversity of interests is such that no legislature is liable improperly to be inter- 768 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES ested ill favor of one branch of industry, in favor nf one class of legisla- tion, improperly against any other that would he entitled to its fair con- sideration. But 1 am not here to discuss the merits of Helena. I have lived in this city for five years, and I am proud to say that I never heard from a Helena man a word of opprobium uttered against any sister cily of Mont'ana. Applause). They have always spoken of Butte with pride and ha\e delighted to reconmiend her to strangers traveling thrimgh the territory. They have written enconiunis upon her. In almost every letter they have written to the East or South they ha\e spoken of the virtues and advantages of the territory. We recognize Butte as the greatest mining camp in the world, and the smoke fi'om her camp fires is a constant re- joinder of her thrift and her industry. It is the same (if .Anaconda, wliich 1 helie\(> we have all ileliulilcd to speak of as possessing the great- est smelter in the world, the largest single branch of industry in exist- ence in that line at least,! so, too, of our sister cities, Bozeman and Mis- soula. But it is not, as I hav" said, a question foi- Helena tn try to i|eci(ts or for that matter any of these other cities. It is a quest inn that the people are intensely interested in, and in regard to which their interests alone should be consulted. So I say we ought to leave this proviso out of the section — lea^■e the matt(>r where the people have left it until they choose their own time to e.xpress theic will upon it and in favor of its rem(i\al. if they desire its reiuoxal. And wlieiiexi'i- they do desire 'this re- moval nobody more heartily than I will .join with them in effecting their purpose. (Applause). Mr. Luce of Gallatin : I will not occupy the attention of this conven- tion for any great length of time, but I take the same position that I did this morning, that unless some place is named as the temporary seat of government, that we will have none, notwithstanding the opinion (d" my learned friend who has just addressed the convention, and notwithstand- ing a contrary opinion from the other geidleman from Lewis & t'.iarke. whose opinions are entitled lo a great dent id' weight upon a constitu- tional or legal question. Now, sir, here is the only provision that we have in relation to the seat of government, and that relates entirely, as 1 said this morning, to the Territory of Montana and not to the State of Mon- tana. It is Section first of this act of 1874. I have left my glasses at home and do not know whether I can see to read or not. 'Reading'. "Section I. That the seat of government of the Territory of Montana be and the same is hereby changed from Vii'ginia in the Hounty of Madison, to the town of Helena in the County of Lewis it Clarke, upon approval hereof as herein provided." And the provision hereinafter which this section relates to is one that submits it to the people, and by a majority vote it should be changed — simply changed — from the city of Virginia to the town of Helena. There is nothing in this statute which provides how long it shall remain, or that it shall be the seat of government even, but it simply says that it shall be changed, and afterwards it provides that if the people by a majority vote, \ote for the change, then the archives of the government shall be taken from the city of Virginia and brought to the fown of Helena, and I understaiid that they were so taken, although our friends do claim that they were taken between two days, but however that may be, they were taken and brought hei'e, nnd by a sort of common consent Helena has been the seal of government, that is all, so the people have got into the liabit of coining here and attending the legislature; not that it is the seat of government except by virtue of this very section that I have T'i'nd here thai it should lie changed. Now. then, that is the capital for the 'I'erriloi'v of Montana. \\'hei-e is the capital of the State of Mon- tana? ^■ou may move it to Missoula so far as T care. If I go to tln^ Su- preme Court at Missoula my clients will pay my fare of course. (Laugh- ter). And if I go to the legislatiu-e T will set mileage; but I undertook to say as a constitutional provision Ihal this convention must name som" temporary seat. Now, sir. it woidd appear from what the gentleman from Lewis and Clarke presents to this convention that this is a inM-manent ar- i-angemi'ut. U'liy. they say this is a matter that the people should ha\-e something to say abov)t. Tn the name of (iod. have the jieople in Mon- tana, as they now exist, ever said that this capital should remain in Helena? Not, once. I will call the atti'ntion of this convention to one pro- \ision in the constitution of Illinois — the first constitution formed luidiT the Enabling ,\ct — and T suppose if we would make a little I'urlher search we could find any number of cases of this kind. It provides in so many words: "The seat of governmeid foi- the state shall he Kaskaskia until CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 769 the general assembly shall otherwise provide." Those people of Illinois, old Al3. Lincoln and all those fellows who helped frame that constitution. they knew something. They knew it was necessary in order to iiave a seat of government that it should name the place: and 1 say that if this convention adjourns without naniiuu some place for the temporary seat of government, notwithstanding this opinion of my leai'in'd friend, the State of Montana will have no seat of government, and the gentlemen who are elected tn the legislature, part of ihem may take their carpet bags and go o\er to Missoula and part of them to Anaconda and the balance of them down to Bozeman, and they will never know where they ought to gather together or where they are expected to go to. TheVc will be no idace for tlie S\ipremr Cmiit. except lliey should gravitate to }lcli>iia by a sort of habit they have had ever since 1874 when the capitol was taken from the city of Virginia and brought to the lo\\-n of Helena. Laughter and applausei. Now, I have no hardness in my heart towai'ds Helena. As I said this morning, I like her. She is a big thing in the eyes of her own pepole; she is a tremendous thing if the feet in the gallery are any indi- cation. (Demonstrations in the gallery.' My \iews concur with those of Judge Knowles and Judge Dixon upon this point. We should have a seat of government, and we have not organized a government until we have named one. Now, you may name any place that you please — name Helena. Let it remain in Helena if you like. Name :\Iissoula: name Anaconda; name ^^'ilder■s Landing or any other place, but for Heaven's sake name something and let us have a seat of government and a state organiza- tion, and no| trifle with this matter as it appears to be the intention of some gentlemen upon this floor — and 1 impune nobody's motives: of course I believe everybody is as honest as I am; if he is not, God help him. (Laughter), I say in all sincerity of heart, they have knocked out this little jewel of mine in Hallatin Valley — this little city, located in a beau- tiful valley that my friend Martin (Nlaginnis was down there one time giving us taffy, gave us to understand was an emerald gem set in those blue mountains; and as another (iistiaguislied gentleman, the Right Reverend Robei't G. Ingersoll said about it "My God, what a beautiful place it is! It is a dimple in the cheek of Nature." But you have slighted it. (Laugh- ter) You have taken the capital now over to Missoula to the home of my friend, Mr. Bickford, and of my friend over there, Mr. Marshall, and I am contented to let it remain if it suits the convenience of this conven- tion to do so. But I sav vou must have ?ome place for the capital of the State. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: The seat of government when this State is formed will be and must be fixed by \irtue of some clause in this constitution. Whether the provision which will probably be offered that all the laws existing in the Territory and in force in the Territory at the time it is admitted as a State into the Union as continued in force in the Territory will continue in force, the law that made Helena the capital of the 'Perritory, or nol, is a question that 1 do not propose to discuss. That has been discussed by Mr. Dixon and Judge Knowles, but unless that is in it, there can be no question about the matter. I think that the gentlemen will admit that the last clause in the twenty-fourth section of the Enabling Act is an absolute nullity. Congress cannot adopt a code of laws for the State of ^Montana. Congress saying that the laws heretofore in force in the Territory of Montana shall continue in force after it becomes a State, in my judgment, is a nullity. Congress can no more adopt a code of laws for the State of Montana than it can for the State of Minnesota or any otlier State. It cannot provide what laws shall be in force in Montana, and T say that the provision of tlie twenty-fourth section which says that the laws of the Terrifoi'y of Montana shall cnn- linue in force until changed by the Legislature is an absolute nullity. Mr. J. K. Toole, nf Lewis & Clarke: If this constitutional convention meets under and by virtue of the Enabling Act. then as the constitutional con\ention it has the power to repeal an act of the I-egislative Assembly. Mr. Marshall, of Missoula: This convention meets under the power granted by the Enabling Act; the Legislature of the State of Montana will meet under the power granted by the constitution that we send to the people and they adopt. That is true; there is no question about it in my mind: and that clause of the Enabhng Act of Congress that applies to what shall be the law of the State of >tontana is an absolute nullity and of no force. Then and now there is no law in existence that places Helena in any other position than that occupied by any other town or 770 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES city in the Territory of Montana, and I do not believe that even if the constitution adopt a general provision that the laws of the Territory in force at the time of the ad"i)tioii of the const itutinn should continue in force in the State of Montana, that it would place the caitital at the city of Helena. The law of the Territory had nothing to tlo — no reference to the capital of the State of Montana". It fixes the capital for the Terri- tory of Montana. There has been no capital fixed for the State of Mon- tana. My judgment is that the city of Helena stands precisely upon the same footing that any city or town in the State of Montana stands, and it will be by virtue of some provision of this constitution that the capital will be at Helena if it is here: and this convention has the same power and the question is just as clearly presented as between Helena and Butte and Anaconda and Missoula and Bozeman as it would be if thi' capital was not at Helena today. Now, I think those are propositions of law that will be agreed to by legal gentlemen in this House. It seems to me that nobody will contend that Congress of the United States has a right to provide a code of laws for the State of Montana: I do not think it has, and I do know the provision of the twenty-fourth section of the Enabling Act which says that the laws of the Territory in force at the time the State is admitted into the Union shall continue in force until repealed by the Legislature is an absolute nullity. This constitution can say that arid probably will say it, except so far as it is in conflict witii the provisions of the constitution itself and with the constitution of the United States. Even if it asserts in general terms that fact as was argued by Judge Knowles and Mr. Dixon. I do not believe it would fix the capital at the city of Helena, because there is no law in force in the Territory now that fixes the capital of the State of Montana any- where or has any reference to it. And I do contend that the city of Helena stands exactly in the same position (hat every other town arid city in the State of Montana or the Territory of Montana stands. Mr. Carpenter, of Lewis & Clarke: I will say one word. This act of 1874 fixes the capita! at Helena. Tlie capital is here, or the seat of government is here, by virtue of that act. Now. the act of Congress was "And all laws in force made by said Territories at the time of their admis- sion into the Union shall be in force in said States, except as modified by this act." That is the law vnider which we meet as a constitutional convention. We accept the conditions of this Enabling .\ct when we do meet. Congress had a right to prescribe any conditidus it chose. That is one of them. If the gentleman from Missoula is correct, as soon as this constitution is adopted, until the Legislature meet and enact a code of laws we would be without law in this Territory. This would be con- strued by any court of competent jurisdiction to mean that the law's of the Territory should be the laws of the Stale, and they would be \^■^lether we put in our schedule any provision or not, until they were altered or repealed by the Legislature. That is one of the provisions iinder which we frame this constitution. And undei' the force of this provision the laws would exist and be continued the same as if in all our statutes. Otherwise there would be no law to prevent ci'ime. Murdei- would be rampant within the Territory. Any other construction wouM leave us in a state of anarchy, and this cnnstruction is reasonable and it is a con- struction that cannot be removed by the courts. CApplanse'^ Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow; I agree with the distinguished gentle- man from Missoula that that provision in the Enabling Act that provides that the laws of Montana Territory shall be in force in the State of Montana is an unconstitulion^U provision in that Enabling .\ct. The Con- gress has no constitutional authority to ju'ovide a code of laws for the State of Montana. It coukl provide a code of laws for the Territory, but when we come to he a State we have got to provide a code of laws for our municipal regulations ourselves. I do not think there can be any doubt abotit. that. For the gentleman to say that we acce|it this State government under the condition that is prescribed in the Enabling Act, and to say that where there is an unconstitutional provision in that act that we have got to accept that, too, it cannot be, ^^'e accept only in that Enabling Act what Congress may lawfully and legitimately do. What power li;i\c lliey in Ih" matter of tlie Icgislatioii \i|Min Itial siilijcct we have got to accept? We can accept nf>thing further than that. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: Do we state we form our govern- ment, too? CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 771 Mr. Knowles, of Silver Bow: Yes sir: we say we form our State government, I know, that is we say we are grateful to Almighty God for liberty, and I am somewhat doubtful whether some yentlemen here are, and that in accordance with the provision of the Organic Act we estab- lish this constitution. And 1 liavp contendod and other gentlemen have contended all the way ihniugh that we do not establish this — that that is a mere waste of paper: that it does not amount to anything whatever. To say that we could take an unconstitutional act of the Congress of the United States and galvanize it into life by our act is preposterous. I \\i\[ ask the distinguished gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Governor Carpen- ter, whether the Legislature of Montana or this constitutional conven- tion, or any body of people in Montana Territory can make an unconstitu- tional law constitutional It is impossible to do so. There is no pow'er given. It is like asking a blind man to see, a man without feet to walk. It cannot be done. Now, as to this question of capital. The question of the capital is this: If we do not establish the capital but do provide as we will in .this constitution that all of the laws of Montana Tei-ritory shall be in force in the State of Montana, and we turn arniuid then and say that wherever the word "Territory" is used or "Territory of Montana'' is used that there shall be substituted the word "State" or the words "State of Montana". Then by virtue of this con\entiiin and this consti- tution the people will adopt these statutes of Montana Territory. The people in voting upon this question will adopt these laws. Why, the gentlemen say that we cannot legislate, that this convention cannot legis- late and yet they are legislating every day. They are providing a code of laws for corporations here similar to what is provided in our statute. They have provided for a great many things here that are pure, simple legislation, for instance, that all the county officers of a county shall hold their office at the county seat of the county — a matter of pure legisla- tion— no fundamental law in it. Now, coming back to this proposition that we atlopt these laws by virtue of that, then I say that if th-e laws of Montana Territory establish the capit.il at Helena, and we then chang'; that law so that it shall read "State" or "State of Montana" instead of "Territory" or "Territory of Montana", that we would establish by virtue of that provision the capital at Helena, and we would provide for that bv statute. That would be a statute and we would adopt it, and that statute that we woiild adopt that makes the capital at Helena does not provide that it shall be a temporary capital. It provides for it there as a perma- nent <'apital. There is nothing said in the statute about its being a tem- porary capital whatever. Now. the gentlemen say. "Oh, but here is this very provision that you are acting upon, and that provides that the Legislature shall do a certain thing", and the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. .1. K. Toole, and the gentleman from Deer Lorlge. Mr. White- hill, have spnken upon that and they have shown (hat supposing the Legislature does not act. what will be done? The courts cannot man- damus them and compel them to act and then the plea would be made if they do not act .just exactly as the gentletnen have provided here, "^^'hy, there is no demand on the part of the people of Montana for you to act, you have not been elected upon that issue whatever: that question w-as not put in the platform of your county convention; you were not elected upon that." And the capital would remain here under and by virtue of that statute. We would adopt that statute in our constitution. Now. that is the position that I fake in this matter, and that to strike out that proviso is just saying that we establish the capital at Helena until such time as the Legislature that shall meet in Helena and be subject to the glories and the dominion of the people of this place, shall see fit to provide a law upon this matter to be submitted to the people. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clark": Would not it be that way if you inserted any townr? Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: Yes sir: it would lie just exaclly (hat way. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Would it not be that way in all the Territories? Mr. Knowles. of Silver Bow: I believe the other Territories that are acting in this manner actually provide in their constitution not only for the capital, but they are providing for all of these other institutions, deaf and dumb asylum, insane asylum, etc.. and puding them all before the people to vote upon. I understand that some of them are doing it. But of course there should be a provision that that statute should 772 PROCEEDINGS AND DERATES pro\'ide in sufh a way that it woulii not bi^ left to tlip Le(;islalurp at all to say, but that the constitution itself would provide that at a eertain time, say 1892, this matter should be submitted to the people directly and not through the Legislature. But I am making an argument as to what would be the result of this matter if that proviso was strieken out. It would leave it to Helena, and leave it to Helena indefinitely, so tar as the law is concerned; and that is just exactly what these gentlemen who are advocating the cause of their town so gallantly desire: and I hope that I have been understood about this matter now — that is. to strike out this proviso and leave it, and then adopt all the laws of Montana Territory by striking out the word "Territory" wherever it occurs and inserting the word "Stale", would leave that statute in force providing for the capital here. Now. in relation to the terms of that statute, they are not falsities, but undoubtedly the intention was to establish the capital at Helena. The statute has received that construc- tion, and whatever might be thought now as to the wording of that statute any court in the country would say that by virtue of that statute and the construction that has been put upon it the capital was located at Helena and that that is the seat of government of the Territory, and when you strike out the word "Territory" and put in the word "State" you have located the capital permanently at Helena. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I shall not attempt to touch on any legal aspect of the question before us. I do not feel myself competent to discuss these mandamuses and other features of the case. Several of tis have heard mandamus hiu'led at us now until we are almost frightened out of our wits: but I do want to raise, and I think I can raise, a very pertinent question at this point of the discussion — I want to know why the constitutional convention of 1884 did ingraft in the constitution presented to the people the same proviso that we are considering here tonight, and which this amendment proposes to strike out? Mr. Hershfield. of Lewis & Clarke: Because we were acting without authority from tlie United States government. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: I cannot hear you. T suppose the question might he raised that the people passed upon this. True they did. but I raise again the pertinent inquiry, if it is unconstitutional now, or if it is unnecessary now, why was it not as unconstitutional and as unnecessary then? The constitutional convention of 1884 did ingraft this same proposition, this same proviso, the only difference being that the word "Helena" was then inserted, and Helena's ox was not gored. Now, Mr. President. I think that every member of this constitutional conven- tion understands the object of this anaendment. It is simply to strike out every other amendment that hag been before us and leave it just where they want it left — just whei'e the movers of this proposition want it left, — at Helena. Now, I confess to you and I confess to this body that if ttiat is tlie judgment of this convention I acquiesce: but I do not think it altogether' proper and right. I say this without any disrespect. I say it without any ill feeling, that this question should be raised as to whether it is the province of this const ituf ional convention to put in this proviso. I say if it was competent and right in 1884. it is ei]ually com- petent and right to insert it here in 1889. if not. why not? Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I have only a wcu'd to say in addition to what I said today upon this matter. The gentleman from Silver Bow who has just taken his seat says that he thinks he under- stands what is intended by this amendment that it is to strike out in order that the seat of government may remain at Helena. Tliat is exactly my understanding and I trust that thei'c will be no mistake made by any gentleman of the convention. It is not designed as I know by the mover of this, my colleague. Mr. Maginnis, that any snap judgment is sought (o be taken on any membei's of this con\entiiin, but that lli(>y may thoroiighly understand that if this provision is stricken out that tlir city of HeliMia will rcmnin the tiTuiiorary capital of the State of Montana: and it is with this view that this proposilimi was presented at this time in order that we might get a final fair' expression of the sentiment of this con- vention as between the city of Helena and the Iov^ti of Missoula. What has been said, so well and plaiidy said, by the gentleman fr'om Missoula. Judge Mai'shall. and the gentleman from Silver Bow, .Tuilge Knovvles, with respect to till' author'ity of Congi'ess to interfer'e in this matter. I do not intend at this late hour to discuss: but what matter' which born of the dilemma we take, whether we say that the Congress of tlii' T'nited State? has iiol the power- to impose upon the state laws which fhev ha\e irof CONSTin rioNAI. CONVKNTION ISSO 773 riM .ifrnizcd. or whetlu'r we say that the ordiiiauco wliifh \vf ^^hall luovidi' bhall say that tliese laws shall be in focce. It' it is the delibrrate juilg- ment of this convention alter all that has been said and done, that as telween the city of Helena and the town id' Missoula the city of Helena shall remain fhe temporary seat of government, we are not remitted to the act of Congress which imposes its legislation upon us, but by the ordinance which shall be prepared under the supervision and care and siiill of the gentleman from Silver Bow, we may say that the laws of the Territory shall be in force and thereby recognized what will be the act of this convention. Xow, I fake it while I stand upon the general firinciple today aix1 agree with Judge Wliitehill that the insertion of the provision into this constitution that the I^cgislative Assembly shall do a certain act would be nugatory if the Legislature was disposed to disregard it — in other words, that the Judiciary Department of the government could not control the Legislature and compel us to pass a law — never- theless I believe with my friend from Deer Lodge, Judge Whitehill. that if any Legislative .^.s-sembly should meet in this Territory or in the State of Montana to legislate under the power created by this constitu- tion, and should openly defy public sentiment, defy a provision in this fonstifution that says that you shall submit this projiosition to the popular will of this countrv. that the men who opposed it and those wilfully and delilierately violating the pro\isions of this constitution would bring upon themselves the condenuialion of this people from which they would never rise. .Vpplause There is ni) danger from precedent but that if we put in this a provision that the Legislative Assembly shall at its first session submit this question to the popular will, there is no danger that it will not be submitted. How to ob^■iate this difficulty and to relieve gentb^nen from submitting to an authority to which they do not wish to submit, let ul^ provide by the ordinance which shall be tlie last thing which shall be brought in and submitted to this convention --'et us provide by that that the laws of the Territory shall be in force until they are changed by :he Legislature of the State. When that is done we have covered and 'ibviated everything. Mr. Luce, of Gallatin: I have .just one remark to make further. I do not wish to be on my ''eet all the time boring this convention but I fake notice that the gentleman who was last upon the floor seems to have gone back upon his own selection. I take notice that the gentle- men from Lewis & Clarke County have aided almost imanimously in locating the capital temporarily at Missoula. I have been in the town of Missoula. I have seen that olhiT dimple in the cheek of nafiu'e. Niiw, then, if the people of Lewis A Clarke County want the ca|iital temporarily at Missoula they have voted it there, and I am willing that it should remain. That is their own work and they should not undertake now in this maimer to undo it. They told this convention, now you have your choice between striking out this proviso and letting the capital remain in Helena or going over to the town of Missoula. That is their own work, gentlemen of (he convention: let it stand. Helena has only ninety-eight miles the advantage of myself. I will get to Missoula and when you get there you will get into a town of good hotels, of generous people and enterprising people, and a prettier place you will not find in the Territory of Montana — except Rozeman. Laughferl That has been the deliberate .judgment I say — and I appeal to the ayes and nays of this convention of the gentlemen from Lewis & Clarke — that this capital shall go temporarily to Misso\ila. It could not go to a better place except so far as the geocraidiical situation is concerned, but that makes but little difference, you know that the boys that get elected to the Legislature get mileaae. Let the cnpital remain where Helena has placed it. Take Helena at h'-r own word. I will stay with Helena. Laughter! I have been with you Helena all da>'. I have the best of you. I will stay with you now. The Chair stated the question which was on the motion of the gentle- man from Lewis i I was t" \i)tfi with the same regularity and proposition for Anaconda; that was the extent of the pair that we were to vote on opposite sides. Since that time I iiave chanjied my proposition and I now dcsii'e to vote in favor of Helena. I desire to say, Mr. President, that it won't he ques- tioned by any member of this convention that Mr. Mutli if he were present would vote in favor of Helena on this proposition, and knowin^r that I desire to vote the same way, I feel that it would be no prejudice of faith on my part of which Mr. Muth could complain: not only that, but it would be an act that Mr. Mulh would be glad to hear of: he would be satisfied, I lliink. He would hold me lo no account for it, and cer- tainly no other per.son could comrdain: and I ask. '^Ir. ^'resident, that the pair be declared off and that I be allowed to voti\ Mr. Warren, of Silver How: I understand that Mr. Muth also paired with another gentleman, a member of this convi'ution. (Laughter) f object. Mr. Maginnis, of Lewis & Clarke: The matter of pairs of course always depends upon a man's own sense of honor and feeling. The gentleman of Park has made a very proper slatement of the case and if Mr, Muth has paired with any other gentleman upon this question, and the gentleman from Park is no longer paired with liim, it is eminently right and proper that he should be allowed to vote. The Clerk finished the roll call. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Browne. Buford. Bullard, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A. J.; Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby, llhessman, Collins, Conrad, Craven, Eaton, Gibson, Gillette, Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Hershfield, Hobson, Joy, Joyes, Kanouse, Knippenberg, Loud, Mayger, Middleton, Myers, Par- berry, Rotwitt, Toole, Jos. K.: Watson, Witter — 34. Nays: Aiken, Bickford, Brazleton, Burleigh, Burns, Edward; Callaway, Cooper. Courtney, Dixon, Durfee. Dyer, Fields. Gaylord, Hartman, Haskell, Hatch, Hickman, Hogan, Kennedy, Knowles, Kohrs, Luce, Maginnis, Mar- rion, Marshall,' McAdow, .Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson, Rickards. Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.; Warren, Whitehill, Winston, Mr. President — 39. Absent: Muth, Webster— 2. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to strike out lost. Mr. Collins, of Cascade: I move we adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, and a division being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of forty in the affirmative to twenty-five in the negative. The convention stood adjourned until Thursdav, August eightii, 1889, at 10 A. M. TURXTY XINTH D.W. Thiu'.sday, Auyust Stli, l' Mi'. Hickfoi'ii. nl' Missoula, is ready to report? Mr. Knowii's. of Siher How: That niallrr has sliaiicil ilsi'lf in such a way I hat llic commilkM^ desire to ask for further lime. The l'i'esid(Mil : If there be no objection, further linn^ in which to report will be granled the Chairman of the conmiittee. Mr. I'ai'herry, of Menghi'r. sent up a substihdi' for Si'ctioii '-'. Propo- sition Xo. IH. CONlSTITl riONAL COXVEMION 1889 775 Mr. Koiiiiody. ol' Missouhi: I would say Uiat this artiuli' that we were discussing yesterday conies up under the head ol' unfinished busi- ness and that the substitute of the gentleman from Meagher is not in order at this time. 'rile President; The (Jhair is not adxiseil as to the nature of tlie substitute: The order of business calls for propositions and resolutions relating to the constitution. Mr. Parbeiry. of .Meagher: "i'he Clerk will rearl the proposition for information. .Mr. Kennedy, of Missoula: I will ask the gentleman from .Meagher if this is a proposition relating to a resolution to be ingrafted in the constitution? I understood the Clerk to say that if was a substitute for Section 2 of the article that we had under consideration yesterday. The President: If it is intended that this shall be referred to a com- mittee, it will be in order, but if it is to be considered by the convention it is not in order at the present time. Mr. Eaton, of Park: Do 1 understand the Chair to rule that a sub- stitute for Section 2 is not in order? The President: We hav,:' not reached that point in the order of business yet. The order nf business now is the introduction of resolu- tions and propositions relating to the constitution — resolutions and propo- sitions that are to be ingrafted in the constitution and referred to com- mittees. If thei-e are no propositions or resolutions to be offered the oi-der of business will then be unfinished business. Under that head the Clerk will now read the substitute. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out of Proposition No. 18. Sections 2 and 4, and insert the following as a substitute therefor to be numbered 2, and renumber Section 5 as Xo. 4. The Legislative .Vssembly shall have no i)owec to change or locate the seat of government of the State, but shall at its second regular session after the adoption of this constitution provide by law tor submitting the question of the permanent location of the seat of government to the qualified electors of the State at a special elecion in October then ne.xt ensuing, and a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said (lection shall be necessary to determine the location therr'of. Said Legis- lative -Vssembly shall also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election the question of choice between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like manner to the qualified electors of the State at the ne.xt general election: and tuitil the permanent seat of government shall liave been located permanently the temporary location thereof shall be and remain at the present seat of government of the Territory: but no liability shall be incurred by the State for the purchase, erection or rent of any building for temporary legislative purposes, nor shall the Legisla- tive Assembly make any appropriations or expenditiu"es for capital build- ings or grounds until the seat of government shall have been permanently located as herein provided. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of that substitute. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the substitute for Sec- lion 2 and 4 of Proposition No. 18 offered by the gentleman from Meagher (Mr. Parberry be adopted. Mr. Warren, of Siher Bow: I move to amend the motion by laying it on the table. The motion was seconded. the Chair stated the motion of the gpntleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Warren . .Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: ^^■hile I am not in favor of this propo- sition. I do not understand it as a resolution, as I understand Mr. Par- berry's motion it was to strike out Section 2 and 4 and sidisfitute this. The President: It is an amendment to the proposition. The motion has been to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. Warren, of Silver Row: I wouM inquire of the Chair if that would carry the entire section? The President: Yes sir. Mr. \\'arren of silver H.'w: Then I withdraw Ihi' motion. I move that the consideration of this amendment be indefinitely postponed. The motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. 776 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Parbcny, of Meagher: I suppose this inatlcr is debalable now. I have said notiiing on this suljject. I was away yeslenlay al'tiTiioon and did not have an opportunity of hearing the different spei'ches tliat were made in tlie forenoon, but I think we liave rolled this government wagon around long enough to get it into a place where we ought to call a halt and come to some decision. We all know very well that it is not the wish of a majority of the people of Montana that the teniporai-y seat of government should be at the exti'enie western portion of the Territory — at Missoula. We all know that. The people all know it. The peoide of Missoula do not really expect it, but they have rolled the wagon around until they have got it into a mud hole — in oureil gi-oimd. I know lliat we have many reasons why While Sulphur Springs is a preferable place for the seat of government to many other places. Rut I know that the lieople would not locate it over there, so then' is n() use of mentioning them. I listened to discourses from gentlemen in regard to the beautiful fii'kis. the clear brooks, the fragrant flowers and charming scenery of the 'iallatin valley. That is all nice enough to listen to. I have heard I hem speak of the tall mountains capped with snow which is refreshing to the wearied eye of the l.'ard worked legislators, nice to listen to. I heard the gentlemen speak of the merits of Silver Bow, of Butte City, and I was thinking at the time that the courts had decided that a woman was a thing and arsenical fumes had settled upon the thing and made hei' a beautiful thing for the legislator to look upon and therefore the temporary capital ought to be located over there. But what do the people who pay the taxes and support the government think about these things. They want them to get right down to solid business, and as a business proposition Helena certainly is the place where we ought to locate this seat of government temporarily. It is provided in that sub- stitute that we shall not incur any expense. Now. I have not consulted a single delegate from Lewis & Clarke County in regard to that, neither have I asked a delegate from Lewis & Clarke whether they would sup- port that measure or not; but there are great advantages to be derived from the temporary advantages of the seat of government and I take it for granted that if the delegates here in this convention assembled endorse that proposition they endorse it for the people and that there will be no expense incurred to the State in the shape of rents for office and House here during the temporary location of the government. Mr. Rickards, of Silver Bow: Board, too? (Laughter; Mr. Parberry, of Meagher: No, not board, just in the shape of rent. But I think it is much better to have a special election to locate the permanent seat of government. There is no swapping and trading of votes. It is of very great importance that we select the proper place and poetpone it until we can build a capitol building that is in accordance with the wants, the conditions and prosperity of the State, and it ought to be postponed for some little lime. So far as the little feeling that was gotten up by my friends that live a little further east yesterday in regard to the votes that were cast by the delegates from Lewis & Clarke, I have only to say that the delegates from Lewis & Clarke did just as they would have done under similar circumstances. It was a parliamentary necessity for the delegates from Lewis & Clarke to vote for Missoula. The wagon was mired in Bozeman and they could not get it away in any other way. They could not vote directly upon the tem- porary seat of government here and they were in the fix that the man that came home late at night drunk was not. His wife hollered out to him in a fit of bad humor' "\\'liy don't you come to bed?" .\nd he said "Hie. wait until I can come around a.^ain." (Laughti'r Now. they had to wait until it came around again. Oiu- fi'iends ought not In feel hard towarfis Lewis & Clarke at all, ami I hope that we will come to some decision this morning and sctlle this business, and let us go home. Yes- terday cost five hundred dollar's. That is a pretty expensive bill of fare, and wliile we can indulge in a lilllr extravagance of that kind for a little while, it is not a bill that the pcoijle who pay the taxes of this TerM-itcu'v would like to put up for. Mr. Knowli's of Silver I'.ow : I woirld like to ask if that substitute is not so worded thai ther'(> would be no expenditure even foi' renting purposes. Now, I should not like to have the Legislature come over here to Helena and be her'ded out here on the prairies. If would make a ver'v short session of llii' mallrr'. and Ihi'y would elccl a coirple id' senator's CONS'ITI r llo.NAr, C.n.WENllON 1889 777 ami g'O hiiint'; and 1 ilnt location of the capital. If by a vote of this convention it is determined to place the temporary capital at the town of Missoula, the membi'rs of this convention can rest assured that when the time comes for moving the capital to some other place that the people of Missoula will .join heart and hand with those who desire to move it to some more central location. We should esteem it a great honor, one of which, w(^ wo\ild be inestimably jiroud, if the tem- porary location of the capital was fixed at (he town of Missoula. You star! in with a 'location that is as good as an\- perhaps in the 'reri-ilory. Starting in at this hour of the race with other competitors out of the race I say that so far as any other town is concerned Missoula has more claims as a pleasant location and .as possessing good accomn>odations for the capital than any other town remaining in the Teiiilnry. We CO.XSTITUTIU.NAL CO.NVE.NTIUN 18«» 779 believe that we could take care of the people that come there to make our laws, and a telegram has just been shown me from many of the prominent business men of Missoula which says that every facility, every courtesy will be extended if the temporary capital is located at that place. There can be no question at this stage of the proceedings but that it would be unwise to continue the discussion as has been well said by thi> gentleman who offered the amendment, we spent on yesterday five hundred dollars of money in discussing the question as to the tem- porary location of the capital. I say. sir. that we should proceed to business. We should proceed at once and finish this discussion — not delay until next Monday, not allow it to be resting upon the minds of the members of this convention to distract their minds from other and needful work, but let us proceed at once to finish up the work. Let us do it this mornioi;: and if Mi^smila is (lie choice (if tliis cniiM'ntion for the temporary location 'nf the capilnl llie members of (he convention and the people of the Territory of Montana can rest assured that they make no mistake when they choose the little fowii of Missoula. The location — everything — is as pleasant a." any other town in the Territory, and while B'Jtte and Anaconda, while Helena and Bozeman have their claims upon the people of Montana for the temporary location of the capital, this modest town has never asked anything from the Territory, has never s;-ked anything from the government of the Ignited States except the establishment of a military post to protect them from the Indians. This town always was loath to present any claims to the people because of the fact that it was somewhat away from the centers of population. Now, we are on the main line of tra\el, we are on a transcontinenlal route with the pi'ospect of numerous other railroads; with the prospect that we shall be on one other transcontinental route. Tliese prospects are such that we can speak with a degree of certainty as to their matei'ializing in the near future. We can assure the people that they will be there almost immediately. Missoula is easy of access because it is central to every part of the western side of the Territory and is only a few miles further than Helena when one is once upon the train going to his destination. I .say that Missoula has a modest claim to the temporary location of the cajiital. We have everything to offer and I can as.sure the members of this convention that we shall esteem it a very great honor if the tempor- ar> capital is located with us. The Pi't'sident: The question is upon the mofinn to postpone until Monday. .Mr. J. R. Toole, of Deer Lodge, called for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. It includes that portion of the proposition n'- garding the capitol. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Cardwell of .lefferson: Mr. Iiwrfee lieing away requested thai I should pair with him. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Browni. Buford. Burns. .\. F.: Car- penter. Cauby, Chessman. Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Craven. Eaton. Gibson, Gillette. Gra\es. Hershfield. Hii'kman. Hoijson. .loy. .loves. Kanouse. Kiiin- penberg. Loud. Alaginnis. Mavger. .Middleton. Mvers. Parberrv. Hofwitl, Toole, Jos. K.: Watson— 30. Xays — Aiken, Bickford. Brazleton. Breen. Burleigh, Burns. A. ,1.: Cal- laway. Courtney. Dixon. Dyer. Gayloril. (loddai'd. Hammond. Hartman. Has- kell. Hatch. Hogan. Kennedy. Knowles. Knhrs. Luce. Marrion. Marshall. .McAdow. Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek. Robinson. Rickards. Sargent. Schmidt. Stapleton, Toole, .1. R.; Warren, Whitehill, Winston. Witter. Mr. President —38, Absent — Burns, Edward: Muth. Webster — 3. Paired — Cardwell and Durfee; Fields and Bullard — i. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gen- tleman from Cascade ("Mr. Collins) to postpone considei'afion of proposi- tion No. 18 with the amendments until Monday, lost. The President: The question now recurs on the amendment of the gentleman from Deer Lodge "Sir. J. H. Toole' to strike out the words "the present seat of government of the territory." Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: On that I call for ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be en- tered on the journal. 780 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Till' Clork ralli'il tlie roll until Ihi- iia H' Mr. l^'iclds (if Park was roactiPtl. Mr. Fields of Park: I wish to explain my position. Mr. BuUard of Jefferson is in favor of Helena and as long as Helena is not in the field in this vote I do not think I am bound by the pledpe to vote in that re- spect. It is a vote between Anaconda and Missoula. The President: This is a vote to sti'ike out the temporary seat of gov- ernment, which I understand is Helena, and insert in lieu thereof "Ana- conda." Mr. Fields of Park: Very well, then I will jiair. Mr. Joy of Park: In view of the understanding with Mr. Mulh. F should declare to pair on this proposition. The gentleman: The gentleman considers liimself iiaired wilh Mr. Muth on this question. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I would like to ask in this coimrction if there was not someone else who rose to his feet and announced that ho was paired with Mr. Muth. Mr. Winston of I~)eer Lodge: There seems to be some misunderstand- ing about this matter. Saturday morning just after the ad.journment of this convenlion Mr. Muth asked me if I would pair with him. 1 told him that \ thought it migJit not be well to pair because we iniglit want to vote on the same proposition, and as I expected to be here and he ex- pected to be absent, that it might not be well to do this. He teb^graphed me SatiH'day morning and I got his telegram in the afternoon, tiis tele- gram said "Will pair with you on capital question." I telegraphed to him that F would pair with liim. Yesterday morning before any vote took l)lace Mr. Fields, who I believe will corroborate me in this statement, told me that on the depot platform at Livingston tie heard Mr. Muth and ^\r. Joy pair on the capitol question. Of course, if he was paired wilh Mr. Joy he could not pair with me. and F did nut know whether he got my telegram, t therefore telegraphed Mr. Joy. When he came here I aske(J Mr. Joy if he was paired with Mr. Muth. He said yes, he was. F tolil him then that F would consider myself released, and I told him Mr. Muth might not have gotten my telegram. When Mr. Joy got up and said \u\ was paired with Mr. Muth F did not consider it was necessary for me to make any statement at all, and in view of the fact that Mr. I'ields had heard this conversation between ^Ir. Muth and Mr. Joy I considei'cd myself personally released. Th(^ President: If the gentleman will allow the Chair to interrujjt him I will read a telegram that may explain this matter. The telegram reads: "Livingston, August 4th. Winston pairs me on capital; Joy on legisla- tive." Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge: There is some mistake then, Mr. Presi- dent. F want to act fairly in this matter, and have no desire to act in any other way. Mr. Muth could not pair with both, and 1 would not con- sider lliis paired with him. If the giMilleman from Pai'k is not paired with him I will pair with Mr. Muth. He has stated on tbi> floor of the con- vention that he was paired wilh him. Mr. Fii'lds will slate to lhi> conven tion exactly what he stated to me. I think there is a misunderstanding somewhere. 'F'lie President: Ft seems tlial Mi'. Mulh considers lie is paired with .Mr. Joy on the legislative question. He states that he is paired wilh you on the capitol question and with Mr. Joy on the legislative matter. Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge: Mr. Joy liimself stated liere yesterday that he was paired with him on the capitol question. Mr. I<"iel(ls of Park: Tlie conversation was on the platform just be- fiii'e he was taking the train for Hie I'ark, and the gentleman from Yel- lowstone (Mr. Goddard) was in our company. 'I'ln^ conversation that I overheard was not between Mr. Joy and Mr. Muth but Mr. Muth told me that morning that he had paired with Mr. Joy. and on Sunday afternoon in convi'rsation with Mr. Joy, Mr. Joy told me Fie had pair(^d wilh .Mi'. Mutli on the legislative (|ueslioii and also on the capitol question, and I spoke of the fact, with Mr. Winston yesterday morning before his vote wa'* brought up, and T believe between Mr. Mulh and Mr. Joy it was under- stood that they would i)air on three different qui^stions -the legislative question, the capital question and some other questions. The Presidi'nt: The queslion is which oiii> of the gentlemen is jiaired with Mr. Mulh on the capital question. CONSTITiriONAL CO.NYENTIOX iaS9 781 Mr. Joy of Park: There seems to be some misiiiiderstamiinLr about this pair, one thing certain, Mr. Muth considered he was paired. The President: On all questions"? Mr. Joy ot Park: No, sir: it was not definitely settled on Saturday but the suggestion was made that he pair with me on the legislative ques- tion before he left this liall. That was settled. Then upon the train it was settled that he pair with me on the ditch question, and there was a conversation at that time on the train liefore we reached Livingston as to a pair on the capitnl question. He said it he could secure a pair on the capitol question he would go to the Park: otherwise he would not. as he was interested in the capitol question and was anxious to see it left with Helena. I told him I would pair with him it he ^^'ished. He was with a party of friends and anxious to go to the Park. I told him that I would see fiiat no harm came to him. He seemed to be very grateful to me at that time and so expressed himself, and we had a talk there, and while he did not say to me in express terms, "that is settled, I will depend upon you and I will say no more about it," there was such a talk and I inferred he considered it not necessary to remind me three or four times that he would rely upon me. I am satisfied now that Mr. Mulh considers himself paired with either Mr. Winston or myself, and as there is some question about it I will stand hiM'e and see that no harm comes to him on account of his vote. It makes no diffei'ence in the result of the vote whether in fact he is paired with myself or with !\lr. Winston, and I have declined to vote upon this proposition for this re,is(ui. If tlie convention insists upon my voting I will cast a vote that will protect Mr. Muth's vote in his absence, as he understands it that way. Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge: I consider that I am released from my pledge then. I certainly w^ould have paired with Mr. Muth yesterday morning had Mr. Joy not told me that he was paired, and I did not know- that he received my telegram. I do not know yet that he received it. and therefore I consider myself released and I hope that the convention will release me from it. The President: If ^Ir. Joy and Mr. Winston are not agreed and will both vote the same way, and Mr. Joy insists that he is paired with Mr. Muth. there can be no objection, as the Chair thinks, to releasing Mr. Winston, and if there be no objection it will be so considered. ■ Mr. Joy of Park: I think I ought to state here at this time as I have heard some intimation from some members here that Mr. Muth attetniiteii to pair with two or three different members on this proposition, that I am very well satisfied from his talk that he did not know and was uncertain whether he had secured this pair, and this talk came about in that way. The remark came up as to the uncertainty of his getting this pair, and it w-as settled that he was to vote for Helena all the time and that I was to offset his vote. However, I am perfectly willing that the gentleman from Deer Lodge should make that pair. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I regret exceedingly. Mr. President, that the question should be raised as to whether anyone questions Mr. Muth's sincerity in this matter. Now, I have know'n Mr. Muth a number of years and no one on this floor holds him in higher esteem or has more confi- dence in his integrity than I. The only reason I made this objection was simply to protect Mr. Winston. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Of course it is necessary for mem- bers to pair, but in order to avoid misunderstandings which continually arise from verbal agreements, pairs ought to be reduced to wTiting and filed with the Clerk. The President: If there be no objection the gentleman from Tli-er Lodge Mr. Winston i will be released. Mr. Joy of Park: Before this is decided upon. I w-ould slate that I would very much prefer that Mr. Winston should pair with Mr. Muth. Mr. Sargent of Silver Bow: I move that Mr. Muth be considered paired with Mr. Joy and Mr. Winston be released and that we go on with this motion. Mr. President: This is simply a question of privilege and if is no doubt the object of every gentleman here to have this matter honorably and equitably settled: and if Mr. Winston has no objection to pairing with Mr. Muth. Mr. Joy will be released. Does the gentleman from Deer Lodge object to pairing with Mr. Muth? Mr. Winston of Deer Lodge: I have no objection to pairing with him. Of course, I considered myself released when Mr. Joy paired yesterday. 782 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES I would do nothing that would injure the chances of Mr. Muth on this vote. I simply considered myself released when Mr. Joy announced that he was paired with Mr. Muth and voted so. The President: There can be no prejudice at all in this matter, inas- much as both of these gentlemen are in accord, and I believe the Chair in questions of division has a right to decide these matters peremptorily. There can be no motion entertained during the call of the roll, and in order to settle this matter the Chair will decide that Mr. Joy has already paired with the gentleman, and that Mr. ^\"insto^ shall be released. The Clerk will proceed with the calling of the roll. The clerk finished the call of the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Aiken, Bickford. Brazleton, Breen. Browne, Burleigh, Burns, E.. Callaway, Courtney, Dixon. Dyer, Gaylord, Hartman, Haskell. Hatch, Hngan, Kennedy. Knowles. Kohrs, Luce. Marrion, Marshall. Ramsdell. Reek, Robinson, Rickards. Sargent. Schmidt, Staple- ton, Toole, J. R.; Warren, Whitehill, Winston. Mr. President— .34. Nays — Buford, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A. J.; Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Craven, Eaton, Gibson, (iillette, Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Hobson. Hershfield, Hickman. Joyes. Kanouse, Knippenberg, Loud, Maginnis, Mavger, McAdow, Middleton. Mitchell, Myers. Parberry, Rotwitt, Toole, Jos. K.; Watson, Witter— 34. Absent — I. Paired — Bullard and Field, Cardwell and Durfee, Joy and Muth — 6. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gen- tleman from Deer Lodge to insert "Anaconda" lost. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I have an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers to amend by striking out "presi'nt seat of government" and inserting in lieu thereof "the city of Great Falls." Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the .substitute. The motion was seconded. The ayes and nays were called for on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Brovsme, Burleigh. Burns, E.: Collins. Courtney, Gibson. Gillette, Hatch, Hobson, Hogan, Luce. .Marrion. .Marshall, Mitchell, Parberry, Ramsdell, Robinson, Rotwitt, Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Toole, J. R.: Warren, Watson, Whitehill, Winston— 26. Nays — Aiken, Bickford, Brazleton, Breen, Buford, Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. J.; Callaway, Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Conrad, Cooper, Craven, Dixon, Dyer, Eaton, Gaylord, Goddard, Graves, Hartman, Hammond, Has- kell, Hershfield, Hickman, Joyes, Kanouse, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Knowles, Kohrs, Loud, Maginnis, Mayger, McAdow, Middleton, Myers, Reek, Stapleton, Toole, Jos. K.; Witter, Mr. President^-42. .Absent: Webster — 1. Paired: Bullard and Field, Cardwell and Durfee. Joy and Muth — 6. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gentle- man from Silver Bow lost. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I wish to offer an amendment. The President: The amendnn'nt of the gentleman from Yellowstone will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: .Amend Section 2 by striking out the words "present seat of government" and inserting "the city of Billings." Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: T move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The ayes and nays were called for on the motion nf the genllcniaii from Yellowstone. The President: If there be no olijectjnn the ayes and nays will be en- tered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .\yes — Breen. Browne, Burleigh. Cooper. Courtney, Eaton. Goddard, llatcli, Ilohsun. Hogan, Knowl(>s, Luce. .Marrion. Marshall, McAdow, Mitchell, Myei's, Ramsdell, Robinson. Rotwitt, Rickards, Sargent, Stapleton, Toole, J. H.: Warren. Watson, Whitehill, \\'inston — 28. Nays — .\iken, Bickford, Brazleton. Bufoni. Burns. A. 1".: Burns. .\. J.: Burns, Edward: Callaway, Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Craven, Dixon, Dyer, Gaylord, Gibson, (iraves, Hammond, Hartman, Has- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 783 kell, Horslifield. Hickman, Joyes, Kaiiouse, Kennedy, Kolirs, Loud, Magin- nis, Mavger, Middleton, Parberry, Reek, Schmidt, Toole, Jos. K.: Witter. Mr. President— 39, Absent: Knippenberg, Webster — 2. Paired: Bollard and Field. Cardwell and Durfee, Joy and Muth — 6, The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gentle- man from Yellowstone lost. Mr. Aiken of Silver Bow: I have an amendment to offer. The President: There are two amendments already on the desk of the President. The Clerk will road. The Clerk read as follows: Amend by striking out the words "present seat of government" and inserting the "city of Bozeman." Offered by Mr. Lurn of Gallatin. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The ayes and nays were ealled for on the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes — Bickford. Brazleton, Browne, Bu- ford, Burleigh, Burns, Edward: Callaway, Cooper, Courtney, Dixon, Dyer, Eaton, Gaylord, Hai'tman. Hatch, Hickman, Hogan. Knowles. Kohrs, Loud, Luce. .Mai'rioii. !\larsliall. Mc,\dow, Myers, Ramsdell. Robinson, Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton. Toole, J. R,; Warren, Whitehill, Winston-— 35. Nays — Aiken, Breen, Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. J.: Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Green, Gibson, Gillette, Goddard, Graves, Ham- mond, Haskell, Hershfield, Hobson, Joyes. Kanouse, Maginnis, Mavger, Middleton, Mitchell, Parberry, Reek, Rotwitt, Toole, Jos, K.: Watson. Wit- ter, Mr. President — 31. Absent: Knippenberg. Webster — 2. Paired: BuUard and Fields. Cardwell and Durfee, Joy and Muth — 6. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gen- tleman from Gallatin carried. Mr. Cooper of (iallatin: I move that the substitute as amended be adopted. The motion was seconded. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I move to strike out all of that portion of the substitute relating to the temporary seat of government. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the substitute as amended. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Is there not a motion to definitely postpone? The President: The motion to indefinitely postpone is in order after all mutiniis have been acted upon. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I will hold my amendment for the present. The President: The question before the convention is upon the motion to indefinitely postpone the substitute, carrying with it the amendments. Mr, Chessman of Lewis & Clarke called for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: With the consent of my second I with- draw my motion to indefinitely postpone. The President: The gentleman withdraws his motion to indefinitely postpone. Does the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke desire to offer this amendment? Mr. Conrad of Choteau: Is there not a motion before the House to postpone until Monday or to a day certain? The President: The motion was lost. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: What is the motion now? The President: The motion now is to adopt the substitute as amended. The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke has a substitute to offer. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I move that the convention do now take a recess until 2 o'clock. The motion was seconded. 78i PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Chair put the question (ui liie motion of thegentleman from Gal- latin, and a vote being talien. the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until 2 P. M.. TIIIHSDAY, AlGl ST Stli. 1SS9. Al'ternoou Session. The convention was called to order by the President at 2 P. M. The Clerli called the roll. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, the Committee on Engross- ment and Enrollment desire to report. The President: The report of the Committee on Engrossment and Enrollment will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, your Committee on En- grossment and Enrollment, to whom was referred Propositions Nos. 19, 28, 31 and 32, for the purpose of enrollment, beg leave to report that they have . compared the enrolled copies with the originals as adopted by the conven- tion, and find said propositions correctly enrolled. (Signed) MIDDLETON, Chairman. The President: If there be no objection the report will be received and adopted. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move yovi, sir, that the report of the Com- mittee on Engrossment and Enrollment be referred to the Committee on Ri'vision. Phraseology and Adjustment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion of the gentleman from Custer, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The report of the Committee on Schedule will be read. The Clerk read as follows: To the Honorable President of the Con- stitutional Convention of the State of Montana. Your Committee on Schedule having considered the subject, direct me to report the following articles which they ask to be made a part of the Constitution of the State of Montana. (Signed) HIRAM KNOWLES. ARTICLE ON SCHEDULE. That no inconvenience may arise by reason of changing from a ter- ritorial to a state form of government, it is declared as follows: Section 1. All laws enacted by the Legislative Assembly of the Ter- ritory of Montana and in force at the time the state shall be admitted into the Union and not inconsistent with this Constitution or the Consti- tution or Laws of the United States of America, shall be and remain in full force as the laws of the state until altered or repealed or until they expire by their own limitation: Provided, that wherever in said laws the words "Territory'' or "Territory of Montana" occur, the words "State" or "State of Montana" shall be appropriately substituted and read therefor. And provided further, that the duties which now by law devolve upon probate judges as jury commissioners and in relation to issuing luari-iagi' licenses and filing and recording marriage certificates and the duties as ex-officio clerks of their own courts, shall, until otherwise provided by law, devolve upon and be performed by the clerks of district courts in their respective counties. And provided further, that the duties of pro- bate judges now imposed by law relative to townsites and to the a[)proval of bonds of other county officers shall, until otherwise provided by law, be performed by the district judges in the several counties in their re- spective districts. Section 2. All lawful orders, judgments and decrees in civil causes, all contracts and claims and all lawful convictions, judgments and sen- tences in criminal actions, made and entered, or pi'onoiuiced l)y the courts within the Territory of Montana, and in force at the lime the stale shall be admitted into the Union, shall continue to be and remain in full force in the state unaffected in any respect by the change from ;i territorial to a state form of government, and may be enforced and executed under the laws of the state. Section 3. No crime or criminal offense committed against the laws of the Territory of Montana shall abate or be in anywise affected by reason of the change from a territorial t(i a state form of government, but the same shall be deemed and taken to be an offense against the laws of the nAVID M. DI'RFEE WILLIAJI R. RAMSDELL SAMUEL L. MITCHELL PARIS GIBSON WILLIAM H. TOnn, Chief Clerk FRANCIS E. SARGEANT MILTON CAUBV CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 785 state, and the appropriate courts of the state shall have jurisdiction oxer and to hear and determine the same. Provided, that this section shall not in anywise be construed tn change the laws of the statute of limitations or the due effect or application of the same. Section 4. Except as herein otherwise provided, the word "district" shall be substituted and read in lieu of the word "probate"" in the term '■probate court"' or "probate .judge"" wherever the same occur in the laws of the Territory of Montana and all said laws which by their terms apply to probate court or probate .judge shall upon a change from territorial to state government be deemed and taken to apply to district courts and district judges, provided that all laws allowing fees to probate judges are hereby repealed. Section 5. Clerks of district courts until otherwise provided by law shall each perform the duties and be entitled ,to the same fees as now provided by law for clerk of the dtsirict court of the territory, and until otherwise provided by law. shall also perform the services and be entitled to fees fherefor that are now provided for clerks of probate courts. Section 6. Upon a change from a territorial to a state government the seals in use by the Supreme Court and tlu' Territorial District Courts in and for the several counties respectively shall pass to and become, until otherwise provided by law. the seals respectively of the Supreme Court and of the District Courts of the state in such counties. Section 7. Prosecutions for criminal offenses against the laws of the Territory of Montana, pending at the time the state shall be admitted into the Union, shall not abate: but the same shall continue and be prosecuted in the name of the State of Montana, and the title of every such action shall be changed to conform to this provision. Section 8. Parties who. at the time of the admission of the state into the Union, may be confined under lawful commitments or otherwise law- fully held to answer for alleged violations of any of the criminal laws of the Territory of Montana, shall continue to be so confined and held until discharged therefrom by the proper courts of the state. Section 9. All writs, processes, prosecutions, causes of action, de- fenses, claims and rights of individuals, associations and bodies corporate existing at the time the state shall be admitted info the Union, shall con- tinue and be respectively executed, proceeded with, determined, enforced and protected under the laws of the state. Section 10. All undertakings, bonds, obligations and recognizances in force at the time the state shall be admitted into the Union which were executed to the Territory of Montana or any officer thereof in his offi- cial capacity or to any official board for the benefit of the Territory of Montana, are hereby respectively assigned and transferred to the State of Montana, to the state officer successor to said territorial officer, or to the official board successor to the aforesaid official board for the use of the state, as the case may he. and shall be as valid and binding as if exe- cuted under state law to the state, or slate officer in his official capacity or official board for the benefit of the state: and all fines, taxes, penalties and forfeitures due or owing to the Territory of Montana, or to any county, school district or municipality therein, at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union, are hereby respectively assigned and trans- ferred and the same shall be payable to the state, county, school district or municipality, as the case may be, and payment thereof may be enforced under the laws of the state. Section 11. All property, real and personal, and all moneys, credits, claims, demands and choses in action of every kind, belonging to the Ter- ritory of Montana at the time the state shall have been admitted into the Union, are hereby assigned and transferred to and shall be vested in and become the property of the state. Section 12. All obligations of the Territory of Montana, existing, in' force and unpaid at the time of the admission of the state into the Union are hereby assumed by the state which shall and will well and truly pay the same. Section I;H. All mailers, cases and proceedings prndiiig in anv Proh.ite Court of the Territory of Montana, at the time the state shall be adniitted to the Union, and all official records, files and other property of or per- taining to such court, are hereby transferred to the district court in and for the same county, and such district court shall have full power and jurisdic- tion to hear, determine and dispose of all such matters, cases and pro- ceedings. 786 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Section 14. All actions, cases and pioceedings anil inaltcrs which shall be pending in the Supreme and Dislricl Courts of Montana Territory at the time of the admission of the state into the Union whereof the United States Circuit or District Court might have had jurisdiction had such court existed at the commencement of such actions, cases, proceedings and matters, respectively, shall be transferred to said United States Cii-- cuit and District Courts, respectively: and all files, record.s, indictments and proceedings relating to such actions, cases, proceedings and matters shall also be transferred to said United States Courts; Provided, that no civil action, cause or proceeding to which the ITniti'd Stati's is not a part.v shall be transferred to either of said United States Courts (except upon written request of one of the parties thereto, and in the absence of such request such cases shall be proceeded with in the proper state courts. Section 1.5/- All actions, cases, proceedings and matters pending in the Supreme and District Courts of the Territory of Montana at the time the state shall be admitted into the Union and all files, records and indict- ments relating thereto, except as otherwise provided herein, shall be ap- propriately transferred, as may be proper, to the Supreme and District Courts of the State, respectively, and all such actions, cases and matters shall be proceeded with in the proper state. Section 16. Upon a change from territorial in state government and until otherwise provided by law, the great seal of the territory shall be deemed and taken to be the great seal of the State of Montana. There being no objection, the reading of the above report was dis- pensed with and the same was referred to the Printing Committee to be printed. Mr. Hickman of Madison sent up a resolution. The President: The gentleman from Madison (Mr. Hickman"' offers a resolution which, if there be no objection, will be considered now. The Clerk read as follows: Whereas, the Senate Committee on Arid Lands will be in this House tomorrow, and whereas our citizens are deeply interested in the subject of irrigation: therefore be it resolved that the committee be and are hereby invited to visit this conventi(in. and that the freedom of the floor is hereby granted to said committee. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of the resolu- tion. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Maginnis) and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: It will be necessary to have someone wait upon these gentlemen and extend the courtesy of the convention to them. The Chair suggests that it would be well to have a committee appointed to wait ujjon'the Senate Committee. ** Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move that the Chair appoint a committee of three. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: T move to amend by making it a conmiittee of five, of which the President of this convention shall be chairman. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Missoula (Mr. Bickford^ and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: The Chair will name the connnitlee sometime during the course of the day. The question pending before the convention was upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clark to the substitute offered for Section 2. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clark: I withdraw that amendment. The President: The gentleman withdraws his amendment. The ques- tion is upon the adoption of the section as amended. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis it Clark called for the reading of the section as amended. The President: The Clerk will rend the substitute now offered for Sections 2 and 4 as amended. The Clerk read as t'dllnws: Tjie Legislative Assembly shall have no power to locate or change the seat of government of the state, but shall at its second regidar session after the adoption of this Constitution pro- vide by law for the sulitnissjon of the ipiestion of the permanent location of the" seat of goV(>rnirient to the qualified electors of the state at a spe- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 787 cial election in Oitober then next ensuing, and a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said election shall be necessary to determine the location thereof. Said Legislative Assembly shall also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election the question of choice between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like manner to the qualified electors of this state at the next general election, and until the perma- nent seat of government shall have been located permanently the tem- porary location thereof shall be and remain at the city of Bozeman. but no liability shall be incurred by the state for the purchase or erection ol' any building for temporary legislative purposes, nor shall the Legisla- tive Assembly make any appropriation or expenditure for capitol build- ings or grounds until the seat of government shall have been permanently located as herein provided. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: Are amendments in order? The President: Amendments to the substitute are in order with the exception of the name of the temporary capital. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I desire to offer an amendment to substitute the word "first" in place of the word "second"' before the words "regular session." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I make that amendment for the rea- son that I believe it is wise and in accord with the views of most of the members of the convention. The feeling is in this convention that the legislature may meet here with the incubus of this capitol question hang- ing over them, and it may interfere with their work as much as it has interfered with the progress of this convention. It ^"ill determine their course of action and to a certain extent aid the proper working of the leg- islature if there shall be an early solution of this question of the location of the capitol. I do not think it is wise to have anything of this kind pending wherebv trading or dickering or gerrymandering might come up. It certainly would be the proper course to provide that the legislature shall provide for an election as speedily as possible and throw this thing off the minds of the people. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis v^ Clarke: I am glad to hear the admission of my friend from Deer Lodge that this thing does interfere with the harmonious workings of the convention and the legislature and is an incu- bus upon them. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: An apple of discord. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Exactly, an apple of discord. Sub- stantially the same remark that I made yesterday to which some gentle- man on the floor look exception. However. I am glad to find that my friend from Deer Lodge is in accord with me. Mr. Collins of Cascade: On this matter of permanently settling the capitol. I think the view-s of most of the members of this convention who live in the hills and in the mountains are rather obscure and misty. I do not believe that they have an idea of the great extent of the Terri- tory of Montana. As a matter of fact it extends beyond the municipal limits of either Butte or Helena. The great State of Montana to be is about 500 miles in length by 300 miles in width, and the gentlemen who insist upon the permanent settlement of the capitol question within a yi'ar. I tin unl believe can realize that great fact. They cannot realize the fact that liver 1IX» miles east of where we are sitting we are in the geo- graphical center of Montana and that within a comparatively short space of lime the population of the State of Montana east of that geographical center will be as great in number as that west of the geographical center. I sincerely and honestly believe that in the lifetime of some of the pages upon this floor that the population east of the geographical center of Montana will be greater than the population of this western country — that instead of the population of 150.000 or 200.000 . as we have today, we will have a population of two millions and upwards. I believe it is not right that in the next year or year and a half the permanent capitol should be settled in some of these mountain gulches, and if we have a big population it is only right that the people who come in here and help de- velop the state and populate it in the next four or five years should have a voice. The election, if held a year or a year and a half from now will possibly and in all probability decide that the capitol shall be permanently west of the Rocky Mountains. I believe sincerely that if a vote was polled 788 PROCEEDIXCS A.MJ DEBATES today the majority of the .state \voulears. I believe in looking at the future (if the great State of Montana that that, would be wrong. The great populous centers in Montana in the fulurr will be east of here, and the question of th" permanent capitdl may be kept oft long enough to give the penple a chance to decide upon it fairly. Now, sir, 1 am in favor of the proposition that th(> first Legislative Assembly shall decide where the temporary capitol shall be, and then 10 years from that date let the people decide if. That would give the temporary location a chance to build under the impetus that would be given to it as the capitol of the state for ten years. It is not right that we should shuffle this thing off after a year or' sixteen months It is not right in the interests of the community that it is going to and it is not right in the interests of the whole people of Montana. If you tempoi'arily locate your ca|iito| four, five, six or ten years and after that locate it permanently for the whole people of the state you will be doing what I consider to be the wise thing. I believe the people of the East Side of this range, and the members who represent Helena upon this floor are making the greatest mistake in their lives when they vote upon this proposition. I do not think it is right that it should be settled within a year and a half. Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: I move the previous question. The motion was seconded. The President: The question now before the convention is shall the main question be now put. Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: I withdraw my motion. The President: 'Phe gentleman withdraws the motion. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: May I ask as a matter of privilege to say just a word or two, not to advance argument at all I feel, Mr. President and gentlemen of the convention, that I owe it to myself to make an ex- planation of how and why I shall vote as I do upon this proposition. As I have said before on this floor, I always try to maintain a consistent course, and although I may not always appear to do so to the other mem- bers of the convention, I do so. so far as I know my own conscience. The other members of this committee who reported this proposition that we have been considering for a' day or two wi.U remember that it was at my suggestion and on my motion that we provided that this question of the permanent location of the capitol of Montana should be taken in hand by the Legislative Assembly at its third annual session after the adoption of this constitution. I believed then as I believe now that when it comes to the permanent location of the capitol that every citizen of Montana should be actuated by none other than the most patriotic motives, and I believe that when it comes to the settlement of that question that the primary object before all of the intelljgeid voters of this commonwealth will be, "Where can we locate the capitol to best accommodate the popu- lous districts of Montana?" .\ow. while I do not wish to aiipear to i-eflecl upon what my friend has jusi said, if 1 Ihoughl then as now sectionalisni would show itself, I would depreciate it then as I do now. But I rise — and pardon me if I seem to put myself on a plane above the remark as indi- cated by my friend — I put myself u|.)on a plane above that id' the Kast Side, ^^'est Side, North Sid(> or South Side. Those questions cut no figun' with me in the question of the permanent location of the capitol of Montana. I believe, hov^^ever, with the gentleman that the lime is not ripe and will not be one year from now, nor two years from now, for the set- tlement of this question. Thrreforo as a compromise measure. I shall vote for this amendment, and I woidd have been glad if our original proposition could have passed this liDd.w but that has been \oted ilowii. and I shall vote for an adoption of the amendment, believing as I do, that the best interests, not, Mr. President, of Butte City, not the best interests of Mis- soula County, not the best iiUiM'ests of Lewis li Clarke comdy, but the best interests of Montana will be subserved by putting this question off until we see where the populous districts are going to be, and then you and I and every other citizen of Montana can vote intelligently uiiou the proposition. The President: The Chair would suggest that the gentli'iuan iirobably had some misapprehension as to the amendment. The amendment is to strike out two and insert one. Mr. Rickards of Silver Row: Then I shall vote against that proposi- tion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 789 .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Do I understand that this is to be decided by a special election? The President: Yes, sir. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move now to strike our "special" and insert ■•general." The President: The question now is with reference to striking out "second" and inserting "first." Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Well, now, Mr. President, I have to say that is a cnniiironiise measure. I shall vote for it. although I agree with the gentleman from Cascade County that it is too early in the history of tlie development of the territory to permanently fix the capitol, and yet 1 am aware that wlnlc it will not embarrass the legislature as intimated, yet it will retard the construction of permanent buildings for the accom- inodation of the legislature and for state officers, and as I said before while I think it is too soon to locate the capitol of the territory, and per- haps will be for the next eight or ten years, I would much rather, were it not for the inconvenience I have spoken of, see the first legislature pro- vide, or a second legislature porvide for the temporary location of the capitol, and see the permanent location deferred for another day. But as 1 said before, ■with the exception of calling a special election for that purpose and substituting a "general election." I shall vote for the amend- ment. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I do not know how this proposition stands, but this convention voted upon that proposition yesterday and de- termined after considerable argument on the proposition that the elec- tion should be held at the first general election after the first legislature. Now. then, it seems we are to vote on the same proposition again, and if it will be tolerated and allowed to be done there is no end to the changes and the resubmission of it tn this cou\entiiin, time anil again in the same shape. While the balance of the substitute is different from what is pro- posed, it seems to me this part of it is in direct contradiction of what this convention has already determined. This convention decided by a large majority that the vote on the capitol question should be at the first general election after the first Legislative Assembly, and I do not see any reaso7i for changing it. The President: The Chair would suggest to the gentleman that the object now of making this amendment is to bring it in conformity with the amendment as passed yesterday. The motion is now to strike out "second" and insert "first." Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: The original bill as it came from the committee was that at the third session of the Legislature they should provide for submitting it. That was amended yesterday in this conven- tion by striking nut Ihe word "third" and inserting "first." The President: But this substitute contains the word "two." and the friends of the proposition who submitted it at the first election desire to have this stricken out in order to conform with their views established yesterday. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I wish to say to the gentlemen of this con- vention that the question of striking out yesterday referred to a general election, and the substitute refers to a special election. So it is entirely a different proposition. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: Be all that as it may. I do not see why we should put this "second" or "third" any more than we should put it "fourth." "fifth" or "tenth." If we are to wait until the population of the state finally settles down to some particulaar place in the future, I do not see why we should put the "tenth" instead of the "second" or "third": but we are acting upon the present condition. I do not see why we should not act upon that all the way through and get the permanent capitol located as soon as we reasonably can. I do not see any reason for deferring it as long as proposed by some . I am opposed to any such amendment, and I trust it will not rrevail, but leave it where Ihe convention put it by its vote yesterday. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I call for the ayes and nays on the motion. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The question is upon the adoption of the amenrl- ment to strike out "second" and insert in lieu thereof "first". The Clerk called the roll. The vole stood as follows. 790 PROCEEDINGS A.ND DEBATES Ayes: Aiken, Bickford, Brazlelon, Breen, Burns, E.: Callaway, Cauliy, Courtney, Dyer, Graves, Haskell, Hartman. Hatch, Hogan. Kennedy, Kohrs, Luce. MaiTion, Marshall, Mitchell, Ramsdell, Robinson, Sargent. Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.: Warren, ^^"hitell)ll, W'in.^^ton. Mr. President— 30. Nays: Browne, Bulord, Burleigh, Burns, A. F.; Burns. A. J.: Cardwell, Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Craven. Dixon, iJurfee, Eaton, Fields, Ciaylord, CTibson, Gillette, Goddard, Hammond. Hershlield, H.ckman, Hobson, Joy, Joyes, Kanouse, Knowles, Maginnis. Mayger, Mc- Adow. Middleton. Myers, Parberry, Reek, Rotwitt, Rickards. Toole, Jos. K.: Watson, Witter— 40. Absent: Bullard, Knippenberg, Mutli, Webster — 4. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion ot (hp j^entle- man trom Deer Lodge lost. Mr. Rotwitt of Meagher fcent up an amendment. The President: The amendment of the gentleman fnim Meagher is in order. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Tlie gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr. Durfee, met with an accident this morning, and I would ask that some gentleman of the opposition on this capital matter pair with him. The President: The gentleman from Deer Lodge County, Mr. Durfee, who su.^tained a serious accident this morning, desires to ask any member on the opposite side of the question to kindly and generously pair with him. Mr. Cauby, of Lewis & Clarke: I will pair with the gentleman. The President: Mr. Cauby who votes that the capital shall remain at Helena has generously offered to pair with Mr. Durfee. Mr. ^^'arren of Silver Bow: On all questions relating to the capital? Mr. Cauby of Lewis & Clai'ke: Dn nil questions relating to the loca- tion of the capital: yes. sir. The I^resident: On all questions pertaining to the locating of the capital Mr. Durfee and Mr. Cauby will both be excused if there be no objection. The question is now upon the adoption of the substitute as amended. Mr. J. K. Toole, of Lewis & Clarke: The motion pending now as I understand it is upon the adfiption of the substitute as amended having the word "Bozeman" inserted? The President: That is the motion pending before the convention. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis A- Clarke: Is it not in order now to move to strike out a portion of the substitute? The President: If the gentleman will put it in writing and send his motion to the desk the Chair will resolve upon that question. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I would like to ask the Chair if the motion of the gentleman from Meagher (Mr. Rotwitt) is in order? The President: That motion to strike out Bozeman and substitute is not in order. The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke moves to strike out something else. The Clerk read for information the amendment offered by the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke, as follows: Strike out the following in the substitute: "And until the remaining seal of government shall have been located permanently the temporary location thereof shall be and remain at Bozeman, but no liability shall be incurred by the State for the pur- chase or ei'ection of any building for temporary purposes." Also strike out the following: "Nor shall the Legislati\e .Assembly make any" and in insert the following "the Legislative Assembly shall make no". Tne President: The Clerk will now read the substitute as it wnuld be if this amendment is adopted. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I ask lor a divisimi nl' llic two propositions. The President: The Chair desires to lra\e 11 read nnw as anicndeil and then the Chair will entertain the genlleMian"s suggest inn. The Clerk read as follows: The Legislative .\ssembly shall ha\e no rower to change or locate the seat of govrrnment nf the Slate but shall at its second regular session after the adojifion of this cnnslllullon prnvid'' by law for .submitting the question of the permaniMil location of the seat of government to the qualified electors of the State at a special election in (((toiler then next ensuing, and a ma.joi'ily of all votes upon said {|uestion cast at said eleclion shall be necessnr-y to d 'lermine Ihe localion thereof. Said Legislative .Assembly shall also provide that in case there shall lie no ilioice of localiim at said election Ihe (pieslioii of choii'e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 791 lietwopii the two places Idr which Ihi' highest number of voles shall have been cast shall be snljniilteij in liki' ninnner to the qualified eh^ctcir.-: of the State at liie next general election. The Legislative Assi5mblv shall make no aiipi'Djiriation or expendilurcs for capital buildings or grounds until the seat of government shall haM^ been permanently located as herein pi'ovided. Mr. \Vhitehill of Deer Lodge: Is an amendment in order now.' The President: If the gentleman will send up his amendni..>nt Ihe Chair will decide. Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: I move to strike out the word "special" and insert in lieu thereof the word "general". 'Ir. Myers of Yellowstone: I sent up an amendment to that effect previous to Mr. Toole's amendment having been sent. 'J'he President: The amendment is offered by tlie gentleman from Meaplier, tlie Chair decided, was out of order. The Chair overlooked the amendment offered by the gentleman from Yellowstone: This amend- ment is in order. The gentleman from Deer Lodge desires to have the proposition divided. The Clerk will read that portion and we will decide that pai't first, ant! tlien the motion of the gentleman from Yellowstone will be in order. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I do not think that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Yellowstone is in order. There are already two amendments pending upon that section. The first is the substitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher County, and the second amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke County to the substitute. Tlie President: That is very true, and as it does not conflict with the amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, the Chair would ask the privilege of submitting it first. It was overlooked by the Chair when sent up by the gentleman from Yellowstone. This is simply with reference to the election. Mr. Toole's amendment was with reference to the Legislature which should provide or submit the question. The substitute reads: "At a special election in October then next ensuing" and this amendment reads to insert instead ".\t the first general election". The question is now upon the adoption of the amendment which, I believe, has been moved and seconded, Mr. Middleton, of Custer: It seems to me that is not in order. That ideniical proposition has been voted down. The President: The Chair understands that the motion to amend offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge was with reference to the session of the Legislature which should submit it. This has reference to the election which shall decide the question. .Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I would ask if that proposition of Mr. Toole's of Deer Lodge to change from the "second" to the "first" was lost? The President: Y^es sir. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: The object of that resolution is to submit Ihe permanent location to the qualified voters of the State of Montana at a general election instead of at a special election. I\lr. Eaton of Park: I am opi)osed to the amendment offered. I believe that when Ihe question of the permanent location of the capital of the State of M(}ntana shall be submitteiJ to Ihe voters thereof for their deci sion on the question that the question should be presented upon its merits without any exti'aneotis influences whatever entering into the question. Certainly if that question is put before the voters of .Montana at the time of a general election when a member or members of Congress are to be voted for, and other state officers, all of those questions will enter into it and will cut a large figure in the votes to be polled on the capital question. Now. I believe on a proposition of so much importance to the people of Montana it should be submitted to them at a time when they will, of necessity, vote upon that question and none other, and therefore I think it should be submitted at a special election: and feeling in that way I shall ^'ote against the amendment. Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: I am in favor of the other proposition. T cannot see the necessity of this Territory going to the extra expense of an election for that purpose alone. It has been found by experience that where questions of this kind are submitted aside from the general elections, that only those particular parties who are very greatly inter- ested w'ill give any attention to it. The towns which are aspirants for capital honors will be the ones that will exert themselves. For instance, whi>re a town has a large amount of influence ami another has not. the 792 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES one with a great iiil'liience will have a great deal better advantage lor securing the capital than the town with but little influence: and I am sure that when the names of the ditferent places are placed upon the ti(,'kets every voter wlio votes will see the names there and have an opportunity to vote; and in that way the town with but little intluence W'hich is an aspirant for the capital will secure a belter vote. In the other way, I say that the vote will be unfair. And (hen there is the addi- tional expense. It will certainly cost .$25,0fXI or $30,000 to have a special election and thei'e is nothing that I can see to be gained by having a special election. In California they at one time held the judicial election-^ at a different time from the general eleclions. and it was the e.xperience there after one election I hat they desired to have the elections for judicial officers returned to the lime for general elections for the reasons lliat I have stated, lluil (hey could not get out at a special election oni'lialf of the people of California to vote for judges, and only the inti'rested ijarties woukl come out and vote. So for those reasons I am in favor of having this election held at the time that the general elections arr' held through- out the Territory. Mr. Luce of (jallaliii: 1 want to call the attention of the con\entioii to Section 2, Proposition No. 14. It has been adopted and considered in Committee of the Whole. I undertook to get the matter befcu'e the con- vention and was shut off by a gentleman from Deer Lodge. It reads a? follows: "Every male person of the age of twenty-one years or over possessing the following qualifications shall be entitled to vote at all general elections." Now, sir, it has always been admitted among all lawyers and everybody else upon this subject that the right of suffrage is not a natural or inherent right: that is a grant of the sovereign power; in other words, wlien the people of Montana vote upon this suffrage proiHisition they make these very persons whose ages are defined here electors, and Ihey have only the authorily to vote at general elections. .\ow, if this capilal should go down to P>ozeman--if lightning should strike us in that direction — why, if the word "special" was in then' until this constitution was changed, we would have it there forever, because I venture to say it as necessary as I think it is that the sovereign power of this State should define the ages of those Ihat are called electors, (hey are btund by this limitation in this constitution. It has been adopted, how we are to get back at it is more than I know, but as it stands now the Legislature of Montana can never grant any further rights. It is the right of the sovereign; it is the right of the people of Montana to make electors. We have made them here and limited their right to vote, to general elections. Consequently I say Ihat if you vote for permanent location of the capital as our constitution now stands, it must be at a general election and not at a special one. Mr. Uoddard of Yellowstone: The gentleman is entirely wrong upon that proposition, so far as it relates to this question. I agree with liim that the qualifications specified in this bill refer only to general eleclions, but all special elections are provided for by the Legislature, and whenever the Legislature calls a special election, or appoints a special eleclion for any purpose it invariably provides for the qualificalions of the electors. So that when the Legislature would submit this proposition to the people by an act of the Legislative Assembly it would undoubtedly as if has always done in every other case, define the qualificalions of I he \olers who shall vote upon that proposition. .Mr. Luce of Gallalin: C;ui (he Le.i;isla(ure f;ii furlhei' (ban (lie con- si ilutional convention? Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: No, sir: the Ij^gislature cannot go outside of (he power that is grantcii by this constitution, but (tiis conslilulion ill fixing the qualificalions of the voters fix them for geni'ral eleclions. Now, if Ihis constitudon provides that this question shall be suhmilled by the Legslature at a s[)ecial election, then when Ihe Leijislalui'e, as I said before, submits il at a special election it will fix (he (lualifications of (he voters who shall vote upon (hat proposition. Now. as (o (hi' question of expediency or propriety in voling u|)on this proposition at a general or special election, I only have this to say, that I do uol believe this question should be submitted to the people at a general eleclion, for the reason that it it is, all of these popvdims cities and these large mining camps--(hat is, those Ihat are candidates for the permanent localion of the capKal — will wish for influence jusl in order to carry the election for their particular rdace. ;uid (o do (hat every man upon (he Sla(e (icke(. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 793 upon tho county ticket, ui.ion I he procinct ticlvot, will he swept off for votes for tlie permanent location of the capital. So that I douht whether anv man would be elected on any ticket tuider an arrangement of that kind. They would swap the ticket. It is a dangerous thing. In other words, it would defeat the will of the people insofar as the election of the State, the county and the precinct officers is concerned. The whole matter would hinge simply upon the proposition of (he location of the capital, because, I take it, that the candidate for the location of the capital would sooner see the whole State ticket slaughtered than lose that proposition: and I am in favor of submitting it at a special election, and if it is necessary in ordec to corner the proposition which the gentle- man has read. I am in favor ol putting the proposition in this amendment here allowing the Legislature or directing the Legislature, if you please, to fix the qualifications of the voters v\hen tliey vote upon that proposi- tion when submitted at a special election. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I have .just one word to add in connec- tion with what has already been said, ^^'e have heard from time to time on this floor a great deal of stress laid upon the necessity of economy. .Now, it does seem to me that while we have a registration system and the Australian system of voting, assuming that they will be proven to be beneficial and the electors of the State want to retain them, I do not see any reason why, when it comes to submitting this proposition to the vote of the people, it should not be submitted at a general election. If it shall be submitted at a special election under this system of voting, there would be an expense attached to that proposition amounting to I do not know how many thousands of dollars, possibly $50,000 or $100,(XX). I have seen the statement made that in certain counties the Australian system of voting will increase the cost of an election from five to ten or twelve thousand dollars and that does not take into consideration at all the system of registration. So that I believe it is better the way it is in the original proposition that it shall be at a general election and not at a special election called for that purpose alone. Therefore, I shall vote for what I believe is right. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: There is one matter that I wish to call attention to. The history of the contests for the location of capitals has shown that there is a great deal of fraudulent voting in such contests. The cases in the law books are numerous upon this point in the cases of changing the location of county seats and capitals. Now, if we put in that "at a special election" there will be any amount of this fraudulent voting— stuffing of ballot boxes, etc.. but if you make it at a general election then the officers and candidates who are looking out for the general election will see to it that there is nothing of that kind. They will not submit to having the returns of an election tampered with. For that reason. I think it ought to be at a general election. There is another thing, too, that I wish to say. This question of location of the capital has not. so far as I know, except to a very limited extent affected the general result at general elections. To some limited extent the question has affected the vote but to no great extent: but a gentleman was telling me yesterday of a vote to change I think the county seat in some county in Kansas where there were seven thousand fraudulent votes in one town at a special election. I believe it is better to put it at a general election where all of the safeguards that can be throuni around the election will pertain to it. Then there is another question: the gentleman from Yellow- stone County says that when they |irovide for a special election the Legis- lature would prescribe thi^ qualifications of the voters at that special election. I believe the Legislature can do that, but then will come up the proposition as to whether or not that Legislature shall submit that ques- tion to all of the voters of the Territory or simply to the taxpayers. There will be a vote over such questions as that. Now. I believe it should be submitted to all the citizens of the Territory and not to the taxpayers alone, and that this matter should not be left to the Legislature to wrangle over the subject of the capital. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Yellowstone (Mr. Myers) to strike out "special" and insert "general", and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The motion now is upon the amendment of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toole". A division has been called for and the Clei-k will read it as it is proposed to he di\idr'd by the gentli'man from Deer Lodge. 794 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. J. K. TiHilc 111 l-t'wis & Clarke: I riso to make a iti'cliininary inquiry. If this sulislitiUc is addyti'd in lieu nf llic sri-tion that has l-idzcmaa in it. will the sei'tioii then hi^ subject tn aineiulini'ut? The President: If the sulistilule is adopted in lieu of the original section"? Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Yes, sir. The PresidenI: Certainly it will he subject to amendment. It will not be subject to amendment by changing the name of the town at ail unless there was a reconsideration of the vote. There should be other features to it that sliouUI be subject to amendment, but that portion of it would not be suijject to amendment without a reconsidei'alion of the vote. The Clerk read the first subdivision of the amendment of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toole) as follows: Strike out the follow- ing in the substitute "and until the permanent seat of goxernment shall have been located permanently, the temporary location thereof shall be and remain at Bozeman. but no liability shall be incurred by the State for the purchase or erection of any building for tempoi-ary purposes." The Clerk also read the second subdivision of the same amendment as follows: Strike out the following "nor shall the Legislative Assembly make any" and insert the following "The Legislative Assembly shall make no." Mr. Hartman of (iailatiii: I mo\e Ihal the consideration of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman frnm T^ewis & Clarke be |)(istponed indef- initely. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Aiken of Silver How: Does that carry Ihe subslituti' with it? The President: It has no reference to the substilule. The question before the convention is upon the adoption of Ihe amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. It. is an amendment to the substitute. The motion of the gentleman from Gallatin is to indefinitely postpone the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. The question now is upon the motion to indefinitely postpone the amendment. Mr. Robinson, of Deer Lodge: I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I would like a moment to state the effect of this amendment so that the convention may understand the pi'oi)osition as it now stands. The substitute is pending and its adop- tion has been moved by Mr. Cooper of Gallatin County whereby the tem- porary seat of government goes to Bozeman. I have offered an amend- ment which strikes out of that substitute that section of it relating to the temporary location of the seat of government, which would leave it just exactly where it is now. It might be fi'om what has been said here by the gentleman upon the floor last evening or yesterday that some provision Would be required to be placed in the ordinance in order to give it force and effect: but at all events the postponement of the proposition indef- initely that I have submitted would leave simply the question of the adoption of the proposition providing for a location of the temporary seat of go\(M'iuuent at. Bozeman. I therefore ti'ust that the friends of the present location will vote against it. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: If I understand this, it is to sti'ike out that part of the section by which we voted this morning to have a temporary seat of government at (he city of Bozeman. Now, sir, I rise to a point of order. I think that after the convention has voted to adopt the amendment that I offered this morning a niotTon to strike out is now out of order. The President: The Chair would stale to the gentleman from Gallatin that a motion to strike out the word Bozeman would not be in order without a motion to reconsider, but this involves other questions and other matter which makes it a diffei'ent pi-oposition. and that the motion to strike out the proviso is in order. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I want to \mderstand the question fully. If this motion of (he gentlen>an from Lewis i.^- Clarke prevails it is equivalent to the estahlishn)ent of the temporary seat of government at Helena? Mr. .1. K. Toole of Lewis it Clarke: 'That is correct as I understand it. The question would still remain as between Helena and Missoula. Tli(> President: The question now is upon the motion to indefinitely postpone. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 795 Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: As my colleague has stated, if his ainemlment should prevail it would leave the question still pending be- tween Helena and Missoula. .Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I understand we are voting on the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin to indefinitely postpone the amendment now offered. Mr. Aiken of Silver Bow: I woulii make the motion to indefinitely postpone the amendment and substitute both. The President: The motion is not in order. The Clerk will read the roll and (he ayes and nays will be entered on the journal on th>- motion of the gentleman from (iallatin Mr. Hartman to indefinitely postpone the consideration of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke Mr. Toole;. The Clerk called the roll. The ^ote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickford. Brazleton. Buford, Burleigh. Burns. E.: Cooper, Courtney. Dixon. Hammond, Harfman. Haskell. Hatch, Hickman. Hogan, Kennedy. Knowles. Kohrs. I^oud, Luce, Marrion. Marshall, McAdow, Mid- dleton. Mitchell. Myers, Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson. Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt. Stapleton, Toole, J. R.: Warren, Whitehill, Winston. Witter, Mr. President— 39, Nays: Breen, Burns, A. F.; Burns. A. J.: Browme, Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Craven, Eaton. Fields, Gaylord, Gibson. Gillette. Goddard, Graves. Hershfield, Hobson, Joy, Joyes, Kanouse, Maginnis, Mayger, Parberry, Rotwitf, Toole. Jos. K.; Watson — 29. Absent: Bullard, Muth. Webster— 3. Paired: Cauby and Durfee, Dyer and Knippenberg — 4, The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to indefinitely postpone carried. The President: The question is now upon the adoption of the sub- stitute. The ayes and nays were called for on the adoption of the substitute. The President: If there be no objection, the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk will read the substitute. The Clerk read as follows: Substitute for Sections 2 and 4, Strike out Sections 2 and 4 of Proposition No. 18 and insert the following as a substitute therefor, to be No. 2. and renumber Section o as No. 4. The Legislative Assembly shall have no power to change or locate the seat of go\ernment of the State, but shall at its second regular session after the adoption of this constitution provide by law for submitting the ques- tion of the permanent location of the seat of government to the qualified electors of the State at the first general election, and a majority of all the votes upon said question cast at said election shall be necessary to determine the location thereof. Said I^egislative Assembly shall also provide that in case there shall be no choice of location at said election the question of choice between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be submitted in like manner to the qualified electors of the State at the general election. And until the permanent seat of government shall have been located permanently the temporary location thereof shall be and remain at the city of Boze- man: but no "liability shall be incurred by the State for the purchase or erection of any building for temporary legislative purposes, nor shall the Legislative Assembly make any appropriation or expenditure for capital buildings or grounds until the seal of government shall have been per- manently located as herein provided. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I rise to a preliminary inquiry. This substitute is moved for the oi'iginal section? The President: For Sections 2 and 4. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: For which Missoula is now inserted? The President: The adoption of this substitute as read substitutes Bozeman for Missoula. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I understand a while ago that there was a motion or amendment carried by which the word "first" was stricken out and the word "second" substituted. The President: That motion did not prevail. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Upon the adoption of this substitute I demand the previous question. The President: The previous question has been demanded. 796 PROCEEDIX(iS AND DEBATES Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: There is another siibslitute there. I understand. It is to substitute the words "Deer Lodge" fni- "Bo/.eman". The President: It is not in order without a recomniendatinn of the vote. The word "Bozeman" has already been adopted as an amendment to the substitute. That cannot be changed without a reconsiileration. The question before the convention is, shall the motion be now put? The Chair put the (]uestion, and a vote being laki'n tlir ciunc was deelaied carried. .Mr. Hickaids of Silver liow: 1 ask simply for information. \\'i> are voting upon the adoption of the substitute as offered by Dr. ParinMry, as I understand it? The President: Yes, sir. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: And if that should carry it eliminates Sections 2 and -4 of the original proposition? Mr. Collins of Cascade: It makes Bozeman the tempoi'ary capital. Mr. Watson of Fergus: I would like to ask for information. It seems to me that some of us are getting "between the devil and the deep sea", I would like to know what the result of this vote is to be? Tlie President: We are now voting on the substitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher (Dr. Parberryl which has been amended. The effect of the adoption of this substitute will be to strike out Sections 2 and 'i and inso."t this substitute in lieu thereof. Mr. Watson of Fergus: What I want to get at is this: I understand the result of this vote will be a decision as between Bozeman and .Missoula. The ■ President : That would be the effect of it. It strikes out ".Mis- soula" and inserts "Bozeman". Mr. Watson of I'ergus: If you do not want to vote for eilhi-r what will you do? (Laughter and api)lanse in the galleries.: The Clerk called the roll on the adoption of the substitute of the gentleman from Meagher :Mr. Parberry) for Sections 2 and 'i, and tiie vote stood as lollows: Ayes: Buforil. Burleigh, Burns, E.; Callaway, Cardwell, Cooper, Court- ney, Dixon, Eaton, Hammond, Hartman, Haskell. Hickman, Kanouse. Loud, Luce, Mc.\dow, Middleton, Mvers, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.: Warren, Whitehill, Winston, Mr. Presiilent— 20. Nays: Aiken, Bickford, Brazleton, Breen, Browne, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A. J.; Carpenter. Chessman, Collins, Conrad. Cra\en. Gaylord, Gibson, Gil- lette, Goddard, Graves. Hatch, Hershfield, Hobson, Hogan. Joyes, Kennedy, Kohrs, Knowles, Maginnis, Marrion, Marshall, Mayger. Mitchell, Parberry, Hamsdell, Reek, Robinson, Rotwill. Rickards, Sargent. Todle, Jos. K.: Wat- son, Witter — 40. Absent: Webster — 1. Paired: Bullard and Fields, Cauby ami Durlei'. I)yer and Knippenberg, Joy and Muth — 8. The Chair announced the \(ife and declared Ihi' motion (o adopt the substitute lost. I Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I now nio\e to amend by inserting the words "Deer Lodge". The President: The question cannol be peached except by I'econsid- eration. Mr. Kennedy of Fergus: I move a I'ei'onsideration ol' the \n||. by which Section No. 2 was lost. The rnijlion was seconded. The President: The gentleman from t'(4Tus offers a motion to I'econ- sider the vote by which the pi'iniso in Section 2 of Proposition No. 18 was lost. There was a motion before the convention yesterday lo strike out the proviso in the ninth line' of Section 2, which was lost. The gentleman now moves to reconsider the vote by which that proviso was lost. Mr. Kennedy of .Missoula: I rise to a point of order. The gentleman who has moved for the reconsideration voted in the negative. The Pi'esident: The gentleman must, hi' mistaken: the Clerk informs the Chair that the gentleman voted in the affirmative, and tlu' gentleman has therefore a right to move lo reconsider. The proviso begiinung in Ime nine of Section 2 reads, "Provided that until the seat of government shall be [lermanently located as herein provided the tempornr\- location theieof shall be and r(>main in the city of Missoula." Mr. Bickfoi'd of Missoula: I move that the motion to reccjusider be laid on the table. The motion was seconded. CU.XSTlTUriiiNAl, I'.dNVF.NI'IO.N 1889 797 Mr. Warren of Silvpr Bciw: I iiio\e to ann'iiii llial it lir iinli'llniii'ly postponed. .Mr. Bicklord of Missoula: I accepl the amendment. The President: A motion to indefinitely postpone is not in order. 'J'he question now is upon the motion to reconsider the vote by which the motion io strike out the proviso was lost. Ml'. Rickards of SillviT How: Would not a molibn to lay on the tahle be in order? The President: It is in nrdfc. hut it would ha\i' the effect of carry- ing the section with it. Mr. Hogan of Sil\er Bow: I rise fur information. If this motion prevails it adopts the section and lixes the capital at Missoula"? 'I'he l^resident: Yes sir. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: There is a motion made to reconsider the motion by which part id' this section was stricken out. Xow, if (his is carried you claim it will take the section with it? The President: This is a motion to reconsider the \ote. and a motion to reconsider would not carry the section with it. The Chair was in error. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer I.odge: Then I move to lay the motion to reconsicler upon the table. The motion was secondctl. The President: There is a motion pending before the convention to lay upon the table the motion to reconsider the vote by which the proviso was lost. The ayes and nays are demanded on the last motion. .Mr. Breen of Jefferson: I would like to ask where the capital is now and what effect this motion is going to liave upon it. (Laughter; The Presitlent: The Chair would state to the gentleman that the section as adopted provides that the capital shall be at Missoula. Now. there was a motion by a gentleman from Lewis & Clarke last night to strike out the proviso beginning in line nine of Section 2. That would leave the capital at Helena, but that motion was lost. The motion now is to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table, and the ayes and nays will lie entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. 'J'he vote stood as follows: .\yes: .\iken. Bickford. Brazleton. Breen. Burleigh. Burns. Edward: Callaway, Coiu'tney. Dixon. Gaylord. Hartman. Haskell. Hatch, Hogan, Kenninly, Kohrs. Luce. Marrion. Marshall, Mitchell. Ramsdell. Reek, Robin- son, Rickards, Sargent. Schmidt, Staidi-lon, Toole, J, R.: Warren. \\'hite- hili. Winston, Witter, Mr. President— 33. .\ays: Browne, Buford, Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. J.: Cardwell. Carpen- ter, Chessman, Collins. Conrad. Cooper, Craven, Eaton, Gibson. Gillettf', Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Horshfield, Hickman. Hobson, Joyes. Kanouse. Lend, Maginnis, Mavger, McAdow, Middleton, Mvers, Parberrv, Rotwilt. Toole, Jos. K.: \\'atson— 32, Absent: \\ebster — 1, l^iired: Bullard and Fields, ('.auby and Durfee, Joy and Muth. Dyer and Knippenberg — 8. The (^liair announced the vote and di-rlared the motion to lay mi (he tabln carrind, Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I move that Section 2 as amended be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move to amend Section 2. The President: The gentleman from Meagher moves to amend Sec- tion 2 by a substitute. The Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Substitute for Section 2. After the ad- mission ot the State into the Union and at the general election of the year 1892. the question of permanent location of the seat of government as hereby provided be submitted to the qualified electors of the State, and the majority of all the votes upon said question shall determine the location thereof. In case there shall be no elioice of location at said election the question of choice between the places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be and is hereby submitted in like manner to the qualified electors at the next general election thereafter. 798 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move that the consideration of that substitute be indefinitely postponed. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated I he motion. The ayes and nays were called for on the niolion of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I suggest this is in the shape of an amend- ment, and that the motion to indefinitely postpone is not in order. The President; The question is not upon the substitute but upon the motion to amend. The motion to postpime the substitute is in order. Mr. Collins of Cascade: It is in the shape of a motion to amend the original section, and a motion to amend has preference of a motion to JJOSlpone. The President: Where there is a motion to indefinitely postpone a question,' a motion to amend the main question takes precedence of it. 'J'his nuestion is moved upon the amendment itself. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clai'ke: Is this substitute upon the amend- ment? The President: Yes sir. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Then I withdraw my motion to indefin- itely postpone and submit the following amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Meagher. The Clerk read the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow as foUcws: Provided that until the seat of government shall be perma- nently located as herein provided the temporary location thereof shall be and remain in Section 2 of Township 4 North of Range 11 West of the Principal Meridian of Montana. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the amendment. I'he motion was seconded. The Chair slated the motion. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: In connection to that matter I would state that this is the section upon which the city of Anaconda is located. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I move to amend that amendment by insei-ting another in lieu. The President: There is one amendment offered now. Mr. Warren of Silver' Bow: In order that the matter may come up squari'ly I move to strike out that section and range and put in the word "Anaconda". Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Upon the adoption of this amendment I demand the previous question. The President: The question now is upon the adoption of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow: Upon this the previous question is demanded. The queslion now before the convention is. shall the main question be now put? Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I call for (he ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objeetion the ayes and nays wmII be entered on the .journal. The Clerk commenced the call of the roll. Mr. Burleigh of C.ustei': I withdraw llie demaiiil I'nr llie ayes and nays. The President: 'I'lie question tln-n is. shall thi" main question be now put? The Chair pnl Ihe question on the main qurstion. iiinl a \ofe bi'ing taken, the same was declared carried. The President: The question now is upon the ami-nd nl without ilebate. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I call for the ayes anil nays. The President: The ayes and nays have bemi demanded and will be entered on the journal. This is upon the amendment offei-ed by the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr-. IMayger of Lewis & Clai-ke: T call for- Ihe rending; df llii^ amend- ment. The President: We are votint.' on the amendmenl Id tlic subslilute. Th(> Cler'k will r-eaii the substitute and then the amendmenl. The Clerk read the substilnt(> offered by the genlleinan Ironi Meagher 'Mr. Kanouse^ as follows: Subslilute for Section 2 after Ihe admission of Ihe State info Ihe Union and at the general election in Ihe year' 1802 the queslion of jjei'manent location of the seat of government is hereby provided to be submitted to the qualified electors of lli(> Slab', and the majority of all Ihe \()|es upon said queslion shall d(>termine Ihe location lln'ri'iit. In case llieri' shall be rio choice of location at said election the CONSTinilONAL CONVENTION 1889 799 question of clioico between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be and is hereby submitted in like manner to the qualified electors at the next general election thereafter. The Clerk also read tln^ amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow to said substitute as fcdlows: Provided that until the seat of government shall be permanently located as herein provided the temporary location thereof shall be and remain at the city of Anaconda. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I would like to offer an amendmi'iil to that amendment. The President: It is not in order: This is an iuiiendment to an amendment. The Clerk will call the roll. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .•\yes: Aiken. Bickford. Brazleton, Breen. Bmwne. Burleigh. Burns. E.: Callaway. Cardwell. Courtney. Dixon. Hartman, Haskell. Hatch. Hogan. .Toyes. Kennedy. Knowles. Kobrs. Marrion. Marshall. Mitchell. Parberry, Ramsdell. Reek. Robinson. Rickards. Sargent, Schmirlt. Stapleton. Toole. J. R.: Warren. Whitehill. Winston. Witter, Mr. President— 36. Nays: Buford. Burns, A. F.: Burns. A. J.; Carpenter, Chessman, Col- lins. Conrad. Cooper, Craven, Eaton, Gaylord, Gibson. Gillette. Goddard, Graves. Hammond, Hershfield. Hickman, Hohson. Kanouse. Loud, Luce. Maginnis, Mavger, Mc,\dow. Middleton. Mvers. Rntwitt. Toole. .Jos. K.; Watson— 30. .\bsent: Webster — I. Paired: Bullard and Fields. Cauby and Durfee. Dyer and Knippenberg, Joy and Muth — 8. The Chair announced the Aofe and declared to motion to amend cariied. Mr. J. R. 'J'oole of Deer Lodge: I move you that the vote last taken be reconsidered and a motion to reconsider laid on the table. The motion was seconded. The President: Tt is moved and seconded that the vote by which the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow was adopted and the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i*v: Clarke: On that I call for the ayes and nays. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I desire to ask if the motion to amend is now in order? The President: The motion to reconsider takes precedence. The ouestion now is to lay upon the (able the vote by which the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow was adopted. The ayes and nays have been demanded. The Clerk will call the roll. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken. Bickford, Brazlefon, Breen, Burleigh, Burns, E.: Calla- w-ay. Courtney. Dixon. Gaylord. Hartman. Haskell, Hatch, Hogan, Kennedy. Knowles. Kohrs. Marrion. Marshall. Mitchell. Ramsdell. Reek. Robinson. Rickards, Sargent. Schmidt. Stapleton. Toole. J. R.: Warren. Whiteliill. Winston. Witter. Mr, President— .33. Nays: Browne, Buford, Burns, A. F.: Burns. A. .!.: Cardwell. Carpen- ter. Chessman. Collins. Conrad. Cooper. Ci'aven, Eaton. Gibson. Gillette. Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Hershfield. Hickman. Hobson. Joyes. Kanouse, Loud, Luce, Maginnis, Mavger, Mc.\dow. Middleton, Mvers. Parberrv. Rot- wilt, Toole, J, K.: Watson— .33, Absent : Webster — 1 . Paired: Bullard and Fields, Cauby and Dnrffe. Dyi-r and KnippenlxM'g, Joy and Muth — 8. rhe Chair announced the vote and declared the nidtion to lay on the table lost. The President: The Chair has an amendment that was sent up pre- viously by "Sir. Hershfield. There is also an amendment offered by Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge which comes next. And there are also twii other amendments. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke moves to amend the amendment by striking out the word "Anaconda"" and inserting in lieu (hereof "White Sulphur Springs". Mr. Marshall of Missoula: ^^'as the previous ((uestion adopted? The President: We are voting >ipon the amendment. The previous question was adopted, but not on the substitide. The amendment can only be reached by a reconsideration, as it has been adopted once, and hence it may be reconsidered, but not today. The vote now by which "Anaconda" was adopted can only he reached by reconsideration! 800 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Rickards of Siher Bow: I move that thi" section as aiiionded be adopted. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I believe I have a motion pending. Tlie President: The question really before the convention is upon the reconsideration of the vote by which this was adopted. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Does the reconsideration shul out all other amendments sluch as "White Sulphur Spriiifis"? The President: It may be reached by a votf^ to reconsider, so as to give this gentleman a chance to got the names of their towns in. It is moved and seconded to reconsider the vote by which the ami^ndment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow was adopted. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I would like to ask who is the mover of this motion The President: The gentleman from Deer Lodge first moved it and then moved to lay upon the table, which motion did not prevail. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I understand the motion of the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke is a reconsideration, and I raise the question as to whether the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke voted with the maj(u-ity. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I did not. Mr. Gardwell of Jefferson: I move to reconsider. The motion was seconded. The President: The gentleman from Jefferson moves to reconsider the vote. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be called and entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Browne, Buford, Burns, A. F.: Burns, .V. J.; Cardwell, Carpenter, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper. Craven, Eaton, Gillette, Gibson, Goddard. Graves, Hammond, Hershfield, Hickman, Hobson, Joyes, Kanouse, Loud. Ltice, Maginnis, Mayger, McAdow, Myers, Middleton, Par- berry. Rotwitt. Toole, J. K.; Watson— 34. Nays: Aiken. Bickford, Brazleton. Burleigh. Burns. Edward: Callaway, Courtney, Dixon, Gaylord, Hartman. Haskell, Hatch, Hogan, Kennedy, Knowles, Kohrs, Marrion, Marshall. Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek. Robinson, Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.; Warren, Whitehill, Winston, Witter. Mr. President— 32. Absent: Webster — 1. Paired: BuUard and Fields, Cauby and Durfee, Dyer and Knippenberg, Joy and Muth— 8. The Chair aniiounced the vote and declared the motion to reconsider carried. The President: A molicui to amend is now in order. There is an amendment offei'ed by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke iMi-. Hersh- field"!. The Chair would state that the motion to reconsider leaves the main question precisely as it stood before the amendment of (he gentle- man fi'om Silver Bow was adopted, hut is now subject to amendment. The gentleman from Lewis i*t Clarke 'Mr. Hershfield') moves to amend by strik- ing out "Anaconda" and inserting "VMiite Sulphur Springs." Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: T would like to say a few words with reference to the locality, that it is a good healthful town, located in the geographical center of the Stale of Montana. II is noted for its beauti- ful scenery, clever and moral people, and there is an abiuidance of water— which some of I he ijentlemen upon this floor object to. \\'ith all it is a very desirable place foi' the future capitol of the State of Montana, both temporary and permanent, by reason of its centi'al location, and I do not know that the convention coiUd make a mistake in selecting White Sul- phur Springs as the futiii'e capital of the Territory of Monliina. as also of (he State (d' Montana. Mr. Middleton o\' Custer: I would like (o ask the gentleman whether he has any town lots t.hei'e for sale. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis iV Clarke: 1 lia\e nut any foi' sale then> yet. IhiI, I will have if the capitol is located (here. Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis it Clai'ke: I rise (o a poin( id' order. The gen- tleman fnnu Silver Bow offered a proviso which contained the name of Anaconda. That was voted in. My point of ordei' is that the whole pro- viso goes out. and (he question now is just as it was when id't'ered by the gendeman from Meauhei' Mr. Kanouse"). CONSTITUTIONAL CONTENTION 1889 8i]l The President: The question to reconsider the vote by which it was adopted leaves the question precisely where it was before. The gentleman is correct. 'J"he motion to reconsidi'r the vote by which the Marrion amendment was adopted having: prevailed, leaves the amendment before the convention to be disposed of. The motion is just precisely as it was offered without being voted upon. The question now before the conven- fiiin is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Warren . Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I mo\e, sir. that the amendment offered by I he gentleman from Silvrr Bow be made a special order for eight o'clock this evening. The motion was seconded. The Chaii stated the motion. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Let us have another night session here. I am told the reporters here, some of them have to sit up until four o'clock in the morning. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move to amend by making it a special order for ten o'clock tomorrow morning. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I accept the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I suggest to my friend that we have not had a night session here yet. if we are to .get through this season we have got to have several night sessions. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: If the gentleman had taken my ad- vice we would have saved two or three days on this proposition. The President: The question now is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Warren, which was accepted by the j;enileman from Meagher (Mr. Kanouse to make this a special order for (en o'clock tomorrow morning. The ayes and nays were demanded on said motion. The President: If there is no objection the ayes and nays will be en- tered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follow's: Ayes — Browne. Buford, Burns. A. F.: Burns, A. J.; Callaway. Cardwell. Carpenter. Chessman. Collins, Conrad. Craven, Eaton. Gibson. Gillette, Graves. Hershfield. Hickman. Hobson. .Joyes. Kanouse. Masrinnis. Mavser. McAdow. Parberrv. Reek, Rofwitt. Toole, jos. K.; Witter. Mr. President— 29. Nays — Aiken. Bickford. Brazleton. Breen. Burleigh. Burns. Edward: Cooper. Courtney. Dixon, (iaylord. Goddard, Hammond. Hartman. Haskell. Hatch. Hogan. Kennedy. Knowlcs, Kobrs. Luce. Marrion. Marshall. .Miildle- ton. Mitchell. Myers. Ramsdell. Robinson. Rickards. Sargent. Schmidt, Stapleton. Toole. Jos. K.; ^\■arren. Watson. Winston. Whitehill — 36. Absent : Lciud and Webster — 2. Paired: Bollard and Fields, Caubv and Durfee, Dver and Knippenberg, •Joy and Muth— 8. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to make the amendment of the gentleman from Silver Bow a special order for ten o'clock the following morning lost. Mr. Eaton of Park: I move we fake a recess until eight o'clock this evening. The motion was seconded. The Chair staled the motion. The President: The Chair d^i'ii'PS. if this motion should be carried, to announce a committee and also to have a telegram read. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park, and a \ote being taken, the same was declared lost. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: T move that the convention do now adjourn. Th ■ motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The President: The Chair will read the names of the committee em- powered to w:ait upon the said Irrigation Committee and will then put the motion. This is a committee of five to co-operate with the President of the Convention for the purpose of waiting upon the Senatorial Irrisa- tion Committee and to extend to them the privileges of this floor. Tlic Committee is as follows: Maginnis. Bickford. Conrad. Kobrs and Hobson. The Chair also desires to have a telegram from the President of the Constitutional Convention at Boise Citv. Idaho, read. 802 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Clerk read as follows: Boise City. Idaho. August 8th. President of the Constitutional Convention. Helena. Montana: The Idaho Constitu- tional Convention before adjournment ordered its eongratulafions to be sent to the Constitutional Conventions of \\"ashinf:ton. Montana, and .North and South Dakota on tlie progress the people of the entire Xorfhwest are making toward early statehood. Idaho is now prepared to pi'esent itself before Congress simultaneously with its sisler territories and ask for ad- mission into Ihe Union of Slates, lii'ing fully al)le to support a state gov- ernment and possssi'd of unlimited natural resurces. We ask for your friendly assistance and cooperation in obtaining a speedy release from ter- ritorial dependence. (Signed! GEORriE L. SHOUP. Governor. W. H. CLAGGETT, President. Mr. Burleigh of Cvister: f think. Mr. President, at the rate of progress we are making it would be well to remind flu'm that we have to help our- selves before we can h^lp them. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I mo\e Ihe I'n'sidi'iil he insti-ucted tn send a proper response to (he telegram. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said nrntion of the gentleman from Gallatin (Mr. Cooper;, and a vote being taken, the same was deelare infornu'd. they iiideavored to do so yesterday morn- ing, but for some reason, parliamentai'y or olherwise. i( is still pemiing. 'i'he .lournal. however, claims to be a fair and bonoi-able newspaper, and il does not conceive itself to be relieved from any of (he obligations under which honorable men rest and are sujiposed (o res(, in (heir relations with one another. It is eidirely satisfied that (he offending paragraph did an injustice to (he gentlemen from Missoula, and it wonhj 'be und'ue (o its conceptions of the right ilid it permil iisi'lf (o allow another day to pass without conveying (o (he piiblic. to (he convention and especially to (he members from Missoula i(s sincere regri>( for (he appearance of (he erroneous report. It will not wait, (herefore. for thi^ resolution to be withdrawn. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 803 Mr. Bickfnrd of Missoula: I desire to say that we wish, so far as the Missoula delegation is concerned, to meeting the gentleman representing this paper upon the plan which tiu'y have laid down, and desire to with- draw the resolution because we feel that the paragraph just read by the Clerk is a full and complete refraction id' the imputation which was placed upon the Missoula delegation. \\'e do not wish to wage the warfare any further than is necessary, and in order to justify ourselves and place our- selves in the proper light before this convention and the people of Mon- tana. I ask consent of the convention to withdraw the resolution. The President: The gentleman asks unanimous consent of the conven- tion to withdraw the resolution in relation to the article that appeared in the Helena Journal. If there be no nbjection the resolution will be allowed to be withdrawn. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I desire to call the attention of the members of the convention to the fact that the members of the Senate Committee on Irrigation are here, accompanied by the director of the Geological Survey. Professor Powell, and I desire to offer the following resolution: The Clerk read as follows: Whereas the Senate Committee to in- vestigate and report upon the arid lands of the northwest, composed of distinguished gentlemen in public life, accomijanied by the Director of the Geological Survey, are in the city, and by a resolution have been invited to visit this convention: therefore, be it resolved, as a further mark of respect and courtesy on our part, that the gentlemen comprising said com- mittee and the Director of the Geological Survey be and they are hereby invited to address this convention upon the subject of irrigation and gen- erally upon matters affecting the interests of the Northwest: and that a committee of three be appointed to escort the gentlemen to the conven- tion: and that the convention take a recess for thirty minutes. The motion was seconded. The Chair |iut the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: The convention will now take a recess for thirty min- utes, say at eleven o'clock, at which time the convention will be called to order again. The Chair will appoint as members of the committee Mr. Toole, Mr. Marshall and Mr. Callaway. The con\ention took a recess at 10:30 A. M. The convention was called to order at 10:45 A. M. The President: The Chair desires to state to the members of the convention that it has been suggested to him and he has acted upon that suggestion, that in order to save time the convention be called to order. We are to have the pleasure of listening to some of the distinguished gentlemen who are now visiting us, and I now have the honor of intro- ducing to you Senator Stewart of Nevada. (Applause'. Senator ^^'illiam M. Stewart of Nevada spoke as follows: Senator Stewart: Mr. President, and Gentlemen of the Convention, this is a most interesting occasion — interesting in many respect,*. You are one of the brightest of four new states that are about to enter the Union. The importance of this movement can hai'dly be realized by anybody ex- cept yourselves. ()ther sections of the crnmtry which have been ably represented and their wants attended to thi-ough a series of years can hardly appriH-iate the importance of representation from your new and growing state. Tlie Committee on Irrigaticm is charged with the duty of ascertaining such fads as they can in regard to this subject, for the pur- pose of laying it before the Senate. The subject of irrigation, although the oldest mode of agriculture, is not understood or appreciated by the people of our race. Our ancestors came from northern Europe, where irrigation was not practiced in the time of the early emigrants to this country anil has not been practiced until quite recently. Irrigation has been practiced more and more in Europe every year for the purpose of moistening the land where it is necessary in order tfliobtain moisture, and the irrigation de- pendent upon the rainfall is comparatively modern. At the time the Roman Empire was in power and j-'overned tlie world, those jiortions of Europe where the rainfall was sufficient to raise crops were in comparative barbarism: they had cultivated the crops but very little. Men first sought the desert, and the deserts have many advantages. More than two-thirds of all the people 804 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES who pursun a^ricuKuri ikiw, and iicihaps three-fourths, irrigate ihciv luii'l and are rrquiicd to. There never was any a^Ticulture in Eg>'pt except by irrigation, and tliey practiced iiTigalion in Italy and S|iain and Austria and thi'diighout the Turkish Empire and most ol the Russian Empire: China and India and tlie islands that were inhabited about the coast tliere. and in South America and in part of oui' own country — Arizona. whei-e people flourished by agriculture in early times. And what is very remarkable, the early history of all these countries furnished us a lesson which can liardly be found elsewhere. It was supposed that the pyramids furnished the greatest exami>le of the engineering skill of the ancients. It is now known that the engineering skill of the ancients in constructing irriga- tion works was egual to anything that can be done in modern times. In Egyi>t they found a principle of dykes used in regulating gates of masonry that were supposed to ha\e been constructed 3500 years ago. They placed a great dyke in the Nile that connects with a basin 2.50 miles wide, and around it were found tiie remains of pottery and other things showing it had been occupied and used. It is probable that many of these works were in their prime at the time Egypt was the gi-anary of the world: and in Palestine that is one of the problems that have puzzled men. Many people have told me that Palestine and Nevada were precisely the same kind of countrx'. \\> did not know that anything could be done with Ne- vada at that time and if was always a matter of surprise that there could be a great people there. Professor Marsh solved the problem. He traveled over there and at every step found irrigation. Sometimes they founrl tanks on the side of the mountains that are still in a stale of preserva- tion. And it is so of Pei'sia and so of India: in India, however, they kept up their irrigation. In some parts of India they have a great deal of rainfall, but very little of it comes at the right season so that they can raise crops. All the small streams of Imlia are well cared for. The mountains of India are dotted all over with reservoirs, each farmer stor- ing the water for himself. The map of India is a perfect picture in that respect. But they were not able to deal with large rivers in modern times. Some say (hey did not in very ancient limes, and the English in building found that that would not do. They cotild not utilize the country and they commenced irrigating. The first estimate was •? 115.000.000 Uir that purpose. They ha\"e spent now two or three times that amount — I have not the exact figure — and the go\ernment retains tlie water and sells it at a very low rate. The estimate was to make it pay four and a half per cent on the money. They sa-y that they are paying up the entire in- terest on the bonds with it. and still the country is filling up and becom- ing very prosperous. Now. without going further into that, and let me say that British India has SOO.OOO square miles. We have in this country 1.200.000 square miles of the same kind of country. By the way. in 1873 I introduced a bill which was passed providing fm- a connuission to exam- ine San Joaquin Valley of California. Land in it now is very Miluable whei'c irrigation is extended. Some is not irrigated yet. but all will bi'. Land comiected with it is worth from fifty to two hundi-ed oi- three h>in- dred dollar's an acre without any olhi'r impi'ovemenls. while land with water — and the land and the wafer, by the way. should always be kept together, brings much bighei' prices. Well, they made a ri'porl upon that, and they harl associated wilh them a !\Fr-. Breerlon who had been surx'ey- ing in India for a long time, and he fiu'nished some maps and gave a great deal of infoi-mation in regard In it. He had traveled for a good many times across the continent hei'e and was a mining man also and had bi'eu through the country considei^ably, and he contended all the lime thai this country is precisely the same kind of a count I'y thai India was. I think he went fo the Treasury Department and to the (iovernment and got them to send Prof. Davidson, who had been one of these commissioners, and he went to India aiul came back and made elaborate report of what England had done, and he also was iir'ofoundly impressed with a similar idea id' Ihe ciiuntry. and particularly with a large tra(d n\' country below a certain range i)\' mouTdains that is entii'cly similar lo the connivy betweiMi Canada and Ihe Mexican line, thr ir foiu' Inmdred nules wiile east of the no(diy .Mountains. There they had attempted, as here, to farm without iri'igation. but thi^ natives were never able lo handle these rivers to an advantage. In England they had gone to woik to handle them to an ad- vaidage — spent a large amount of money on the counlrv where there is rainfall enough some years, and they had a great many bad y(>ars. He said that the i-ounlry that we reidaimed anil got good crops from exery ('.O.NSTiri'no.NAl. COXVE.N'I'IO.X ISS'.t SO") y(':ii- was riilirrly siinihir Id thai. riicL-c lin^y ha\r llnir iihiLiiila ii lan^ii's the sanii' rts \vi' lia\i' here, whcri' irrigalinn is nuicli rasicr. Well, now, in order In utili/.e (his country and make it availahle it is neeessary Tor tlie country to lr pi'op- osition altogether. But what we now propose to do by appropi'iations that have already been maile — one made at (he first session of the last (Congress, and one at tiie second session, the first session appropriated $100,000 for the purpose of investigation and sui'veys, and the second session $200,000. and there was to be a reservation in the first law of all the places that were to be required for reservoirs and ditches and for hydraulic works. The reservation in the last act extended beyond that and perhaps too far. It would require further legislation in order to enable people to acquire land. As you are well aware, the settler caimot go in one of those valleys where there are 100,000 or 10.000 or 5,000 acres of land to be irrigated by one stream and locate a homestead and stay on it. He must first get the watei'; and to get the water on a large scale re- quires capital and combination. But liefnre either will proceed at all, a survey is necessary. Now, I know plenty of people (hat live righ( along the foot of (he mountains, and know noihing aljout what they contain. I have been called upon to litigate with regard to water rights. I have .suggested to parties liefore they spend any money litigating they had bet- ter go up in the mountains and see if they could not get more water. They would find lakes thei-e and little dams and the people would all be supplied. It would cost in many instances a good deal less than the litiga- tion in courts. As I say, T find people living right in the valleys that knew little about the mountains. Indeed, there is a peculiarity and some of the wKnesses (hat we have met in our investigation have mentioned it, and I mention it because it will be called to mind by every old pros- pector, if he will think about it — he may not have thought about it at 800 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES till' timr. Iiut-if he will think about il lii' will I'rincnihi'i- tlial on lln' riilfios of all I 111" iiioiiiitaiiis thri)UfiliiUit this I'oiintry. Iiowi-mt abrupt nr iici'in'll- (lirular they havi" bioknil. you will liuil near the suminil flats and swamps and lakes discharjiing their narrow goi-ges, where a sli;;lil dam will keep bark a large amount, of waler. But the emigrant goes through— and you not ha\ing found il out in thirty years the emigrant is not going to find it out and determine what is to be done. Now, Congress bos established thr principli' that It will survey the public lands for the benefit of settlers so that it can be made axailable. Ndw, what is pi'oposed is to have these mountain rangi-s and the lines of dil(dies indicateii, because they niust indicate the line uf ditch if they are going to segregate the land that can be irrigated from the other land — and the reservoir's surveyed and hx'ated aiul an estimate sufficiently accurate for general purposes of the probable cost. Then, you will tiiiil through this country innumerable places that you do not think anything about nnw, where the water can be cheaply put upon the land. Wlien that is done we think that the people will flow into these cheap places at first and they will be made available. Then, when we come to handle the larger rivers and deal with the greater sub- ject, that is a matter of after consideration. Now, too, the .\mericati people when they find that they have got a home for 100.000,000 or 150,- 000,000 of peojjle where they can live and enjoy themselves and raise crops with certainty, and that it is a healthful country, and has many advan- tages, and it is the only place that the future population can go to — w%en the .American people realize that fact there is enough genius in our country to utilize it without impoverishing the country and without vio- lating any principles of government. Undoubtedly you will find new prob- lems of government in this question. It has been suggested and it has been discussed a good deal in various sections that they must have local gov- ernment. That has been the result everywhere. There has to be some local government to regulate the water and properly distribute it. Now, hei'e water is the principle thing. Land is the incident, so far as land is concerned, and the water laws that England has adopted — that is the English courts said that it is best for the people that the water should flow in the stream: they wanted to keep it clean for fishing and sporting and drainage was rather more necessary than irrigation, and consequently they adopted certain rules making them keep the water in the streams, and they would not let it be diverted at all. But even in England that i.s all changed and modified. Tlie rivers are all used Ihere for sewers and other things, and it had to be changed even theri\ But England when it made this proposition that you had to confront was not hampered by this common law at all. They fii'st appointed a commission to see when they had got to lake hold of it, and when thei'e was a failure among the railroails and they continued to have those famines they sent a commis- sion to examine the laws in relation to water which hail been distributed in ancient times in ancient Rome — collect the laws and examine them and make a report. Then they took hold of the question in a very able way. They declared that all the waters of India were to be controlled by the govermnent. They declared that, and then they passed an easy law for condemnation and regulation of the water. That was more arbitrary than we cotiid do probably, but we have got to reach the result. If the water is to he used by the community, and the water is the principle thing, we ought til start in at once with o\u' faces firmly set against any person own- ing thr land to sell. That should ln' tin' leading in'inciple in every nnive- inenl. that the man with such land sho\dd ha\e Ihe i-ighl lo the water — nut the right that somebody else will cunti'ol. but he should have an in- tei'cst and property right in the water. That I'an lie vei'y well arranged, because if it is not yon will have a country of loi'ds anmnion l:i\v -itarli'd ami flian,L:i's ami yniws. Why, i'\ri-y railroad contractor and every steamboat I'liginccr and every railroad en- tiineer is making common law. You will have a whole system of common law in ref;ard to the railroads and in regard to the telei)hone. We ha\e no dif'l'iciiKy in applying it to those principles. We tlecide what a man must reasimably do in order to promote the greatest gond — what the in- terests <>{ the coiuitry require. We di> not want to go to Eurofie for facts when we come liei-e. That will be worked out by local government. .Now. all that this committee want is to get Ihe facts as far as we can claim them as we (ravel through the coiuitry, and we want those ha\ing facts iiere. we want them to come before the committee and make a state- ment. We expect your surveyors, "etc., will give us the general fads. We cannot go into much detail because we want to go into all the arid coun- try. The detail will come with the surveys. You will have a section of country surveyed and you will see whether it is worth dealing with, so as not to mislead the people. No people ought to be brought into this country in the belief that they can farm without irrigation, I have seen some very cruel examples of that^ — not being prepared for the new situa- tion from arid lands. The new situation, althdugh it requires experience, and we ha\e not been taught in it, is not an embarrassing one when we understand it. If the people had come from the Pacific and occupied this country, the .Vtlantic Coast states would probably have been a wilderness today, because ordinarily it costs less to bring a farm hen^ in the arid region — it costs much less to bring a farm under cultivation than it did to clear the land along the .-Vtlantic coast. Our honest ancestors had a very hard time, and if they had come here I hey waiuld have found it much easier. They would have stuck to the country where they could be sure of crops every year. But take the stranger and put him in a new situation which seems to him impossible — and people wlm pass along the railroad and wilh an uniiractical eye, they pronounce it a desert, they think there is nothing t(i be seen along the line of the Northern Pacific railroad, whereas it goes through one of (he most magnificent countries in the world. The eastei-n part of Montana is a most magnificent domain. It has its rivers: ils soil is fertile: the climate is superb: the latitude is not high. You have the most luxuriant grass for stock, and when the land that can be cultivated is brought under cultivation and you feed your stock in winter and fatten them besides so as to send dressed beef and fat cattle to Chicagii. wliy this is the meat producing section of the world. .Montana. I think very likely this eastern portion of Montana, will produce more food foi' man than Ihe same number of squari> miles in the Missis- sippi valley. You may lake ou( your mountain ranges and your waste land — and there is not so much waste land as you think, and all this waste land is nutritious pasture land — and you have your pasture land and a sure crop, and what wuuld be regarded a wondrous crop in the east. They tell me they have in this territory pi-oduced as much as twelve tons of hay to the acre: but six tons is an ordinary crop and (hat is about as well as they can do anywhere. Then you have the aiixantage over almost all countries of this brisk, invi^'oi-ating and exhilarating climate. You can raise a good crop of men and women not affected wilh malaria. The men and women raised in the moimtains are always superior in that respect from malaria and fever and grow >ip healthy: and liberty will always prevail in the mountains because jieople are bright and healthy and not subject to sickness. And then your mines: I will not speak of them. As we are talking about irrigating land to make it in-oductive, there is another class of men who know how to irrigate something else and make it pro- ductive. There is a class of men that iri'igate debts and make them grow. The debts of the United States ha\ e grown independent of the interest at least thirty-five per cent in sixteen years. That is a pretty rapid growth — ths debts of (he civilized world. .-\nd how is that done? It was done by a rascally form of irrigation. They irrigate the contractors with rascality, and produce an enormous growth, and if it won't be out of the way here I want to explain how that is done. President Clark: Not at all. Proceed, Senator. Senator Stewart: That is a little out of your province, and I do not propose to turn this into a silver meeting ''.\pplause ^ : but inasmuch as I see a great many of my old fellow miners here I would like to explain the trick that has been played on tiiem. Now, everything depends upon the law of supply and demand. You have heard that said a great deal, but you hardly realize it — that is, all value depends upon the desire of men H()8 PROCEEDINCiS AND DEBATES to have a corlain lliiiiy. .Nntliing is valualjli' that nirn dn mil want. Soiii.,' things have vahie in ono phii'i- but not in aunthcr. It .\(in wen' nn Lake Supei'ior you would not think of buying water, but pul you nul nn the Colorado desert twenty mib»s from any liabitafion. and no water within twenty miles, anti I do not think there is any of you but would ^Hve what- ever he had foj' plenty of waler. So you see where the quantity is very limited and the tiesire very gi'eat a lliing has value, Suppose (here were no rocks here but gold, gold wduM have tlie same iulrinsii; value as it now has, but e\erybody would gel it without paying for it. So it dejiends upon those two tilings, .Now, when a wheat crop fails everyliody says wheal is going to be dear. And the ladies at the market know everylliinar is giung to be dear if it is scarce. That is the universal law of supply and demand. Well, that is applied to money just the same as everything else, Winn money is scarce it will go up. and when it is plentiful it will go diiwn. Now, (here is half of the world will tell you that gold is a standard, and it does not make a great deal of difference whether you ha\e a little of it or a good deal of it. it has the same value, and that is the same with the monometalists. They call it intrinsic value, and some writers on the suljject call it intrinsic value. But there is nothing in it but thi' desire of men. Value is outside of a thing, quality is in thi- thing, but. value is otitside, and the use of those terms inlrinsic value misleads the peopl-' and they just argue the question that gold is the very best thing for money. Now, all mankind from the earliest history of the world have found it necessary, in any attempt to r^merge out of barbarism, to have some medium of exchange, something that woidd be a general standard of profit. The savages even attempted a little. In portions of Asia they had it in early times. History says they used Mulbay: and they had.il stamped; and our ancestors used a grosser kind of money, used cattle and used hides and all things have been used, and there has to be some medium of ex- change. If I was reduced to what I could in-nduce for myself I would have a pretty rough time. Now, just think of yourselves out here com- pelled to make your clothes and make your food. Just imagine yourseU' out in this country alone. Pick your place and if you are alone you cannot do much. You ha\e got to let somebody else base half, and he has got to do tlie same, and that enables civilization to progress. One man has something that you want and yo\i have something that he wants, but in order that civilization may progress they must have a medium of ex- change. Well, now, whenever that medium of exchange is increased it grows cheaper and property grows dearer. While property is going up people will put money in property,, because they are making money by it. As long as property is growing dearer you want to get property, and the effort of men to gel property makes times good. That is enleriirise. Hf- will invent ways of making pmperty cheap. In other words, when that life blood, when it is full it runs forward with tlie rapidity that can hardly be realized, when money is going up and property is gding down, so that every time you agree to deliver money you have got to deliver mori> than at tlie time' you make the contract. The jjerson that goes in cheap bor- rows money; he sells it "short," in the language of the Stock Exchange, He undertakes to deliver a thing at a future day that he has not got. anJ if it is scarcer then he is destroyed. If it is a stock and you pool it you break the shorts; if it is a debt and the money is nuich more dear so that he cannot get it to pay the debt the man is ruined. Now, I here has been in tlie history of the world many times when money was plenty, and then we have pro"sperit\'. It has been a long time sinc(> the wor'ld had confi- dence in gold and silver; it is a long time since lliat confidence was es- tablished; and it has been looked upon now for neai'ly Ihree or four hun- dred years as the only kind of money. It may not be the only kind of mone.v; probably you would get a commodity id" no \alue at all. ami have it universally, in olliei' woi'd.s fiat money; but they dn not take into con- sidei'ation the fact I hat there are twelve millions of people to be educated to tii'lieve Ibat the amount on hand will be kept the same. Now. Iheie are twelve millions cd' [jeople educated in the usi' of silver, Sixlcm mmi's ha\e not deprived Ibem of the knowledge that silvei' is moiir\. TIi.tc an' proli- ablv five millions of people who only use gold —may be ten millions of ppoplo— not mr>re. There are 2,5n.onO,(NIO iieople Ibat reganl gold as money, Itut those that use it are very few in number, and (here are not more than 250.0(111.(1(1(1 that regai'd it as money at all; but the cixilized regaril it as money, and tlu> civilized world has n-garded both gold ami silver as money for a verv lonvr time. li(d gold has been so (>\pensive that it could not be CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 809 used through tht; vast multituiie of Asia, whoro lln' gifat mass of man- kind live, althiiugh tlic merchants have some idea of its value. Now. these two metals liave heen in tht' most eivilized eountries regarded for four thousand years as money, and out of fltiem they have made standard money. \Vhen tliere has been a good crop of money there has been progrress. and I defy any historian to e.vamine it from the beginning to end and find tiiat (hei'e has lieen any considerable progress of civili- zation. There were some inventions of money in the cmuitries about the .Mediterranean that helped somewhat, but there has been no progressive stride in the worlds history except at the times when there was a bfiunteous supply from the mines. In the time of Abraham we hear of the Jews gi\ ing money and from .-Vbraham down to the time of Solomon. Solomon got largf supplies of gold and silver from Ophir — gold from Ophir and silver from nther places. \\e find thai they accumulated there \ast stores of gold and silver, and the Plienicians had prosperity about the same time. The historians say they gathered gold and silver from all the coun- tries around the Mediterranean, and the Egyptians when they flourished had mica as the prevailing value. 'Jlie ruins of the mines in ancient Egypt are still monuments to their influsfry and monuments to their ex- ertions to obtain gold and silver, and when Rome started in on her career (it power she commenced by capturing countrii's and obtaining their gold and silver, until finally all the civilized countries of Europe and Asia and .\frica within the reach of Rome — all that they had accumulated was gradually brought under the dominion of Rome. Then she went further and enslaved the soldiers. Spain presents today a grand picture of the terrible exertions of men in tearing down mountains to get gold and silver, and it is eslimated by .Jacob and others that at the time of .\ugustus the Roman Empire liad about 2.000.0(JO.OOO of our money in circulation — of gold and silver — besides a vast amount which was in plate and ornaments, for they used gold and silver for ornamental purposes then more than they do now. It would be difficult now to find the amount of bullion in this country that they had: they had a vast amount. Then commenced in testine war. The war broke out and the property became unsafe. Thr>y were invaded by the barbarians of the north. It was taken and wasted and lost. No more mining was conducted, and in seven hundred years the whole stock was practically t^xhausted and remained so until the fifteenth centtJry. Why. .Jacob and other historians tell us. that during the seven hundred years preceding the discovery of America that the art of separat- ing gold and silver from the baser metals was lost and had to he acquired again through the different processes that the ancients had acquired. Those were the dark ages; everybody was poor; a man's debt was growing larger all the while: a mortgage on a farm would grow larger and the price of commodities less every year, imtil men settled down into despair and slavery. A braver race never occupied the earth, and they were re- duced to slavery. T tell you poverty mnkes a man a coward quicker than anything else. You see a poor fellow that is in bad luck: he finally gets to be a nuisance; you kick him out of the bar room; and he would striki- a good mine and he would have a fine horse and a new suit of clothes and a pistol in his belt, and In- would go through your town with a chip on his shoulder and there would be none of you tliat would want to dis lurb him either. It is luck that transforms the man. Year after year of hard times makes men cowards. It was a great mystery to me until I un- derstood how the Romans could be enslaved: but I see now. year after year of poverty and starvation, family to support, wages getting lower, property getting lower, times getting harder all the time. That is what makes men weak and cowardly. Now, after the discovery of gold ami silver in Mexico ami South .\inerica. we not only mined but we robbed the people of what they had. They had large stores. They were partially civ ilized. It was taken to Europe and excited Europe and it revived mining everywhere, and people had some money in their pockets, and they com- menced walking about and telling the monarchs of that i-ountry to stand back: they had chips on their shoulders, and were v\illin2 to meet any issue. The life blood of civilization was poured from the mines of .\merica dtn'ing three hundred years, and progress was onward and upward. T_'ntil the civilization of the nineteenth century was created — until about th," commencement of this century, the wars in Mexico and South .-Vmerica re- larded it somewhat, and from 1810 to 1830 we had a pretty hard time. A\'ages were low: property was low: a man was very glad to get ^S a month on a farm in Ohio where I lived at that time. I worked for that mvself. 810 PROCEEDI.NC.S AM) DB^BAIKS I know just, how it was. 1 (ell you tiiiu's wen' liai-il. Prices wero fall- ing. The wlioli' world was strugsling lor I he waiil ol a crop of money. There was a famine of money during tiial pei'iotl, and all the impetus of three hundred years of supplies and the accumulations on hand was not sufficient to keep up prosperity. Then it was' that tliis new discovery came. California ami Australia were discovered, and this was a new era. new life blood for progress, new life blood for civili/.ation. and everything started throughout the world, and the i)rogress of the twenty-three years from 1850 to i873, lake the ci\ilized world at lai'ge. has no parallel in any period of KHJ years, in finance, in weallli, in accunudation of wealth, be- cause most every enterprise was necessarily a succes.s — not everyone — a man might fool away his money and get broke, but the average business man. if he invested in property during that period would find that his property had increased. Of course, we had commenced to resume specie liaynii'nts, and it was a litlle hard in Ibis coimtiy just al that time: jiul take the average and the country was pi-osiierous. Wrdl, now, this gold and siher — the gold that came from Caliii.irnia and Australia alarmed the men who had fixed incomes and had bonds, and during all lliat i)eriod tl)e world kept in debt pretty fast because men are still money short \\'ben they think it is going down, and everybody was al work. They said it was neces- sary lo protect the bonds — those persons having a fi.xed income — and the tliin.;^ stai'fed with the suggestion of exaggerated reports that came from Cali- fornia and Australia, and they said here we must not make money out of gold: make silver the standard; it will destroy civilization to have gold in this country. Everybody can use sll\er. The silver is used all over the world: and they wrote the most magiiificant books about it. enough to break down this table. France appointed a conunission to demonetize gold, Germany and Austria in 1857, right on Ihe first alarm, decided to demone- tize gold and to adopt a silvei' standard. In Holland it was the same, ami it was confemiilated throughout, hut England would not change. England in 1810 had demonetized gold in England, and as long as other natinns kept it up as the slandard it kept th(> price equal and consequently England did not like to change and would not change. France did not decide which metal she would demonetize, hut in the Franco-German war then Germany said, we are the greater nation now and you cannot demonetize gold: \m' will denionetize silver; and they were producing a good deal of silver. Then they came to the United States and they got a bill through Con- gress that left out the silver doUar. Nobody knew how that was done — nobody knew anything about it, but it was gotten through, ^^■ell, that left out the siher dollar here. Now. then, they used the United Stall's and Germany to get the balance of Europe — the United States and Germanv and England undertook to operate upon Ihe balance of Europ(> and finally at the end of 1875 we had every mint in Ihe civilized worUI closed against silver, and silver then fell like lead, and then we found out we had de- monetized it. Nobody knew it until that time, because Eiu'0|)e kepi the bimetallic basis up by receiving silver until 1875 or the beginning or pretty near the beginning of 1876, until it was generally known. In .Jamiary. 1875. President Grant when he signerl the Specie Resumption Bill, sent a special message to Congress establishing the two or three mints of St. Louis and Omaha for the puipose of coining silver dollars. He had no idea that no silver dollars had been coined. We did not know il until silver fell and then we began to feel it. Well, then there was a struggle in Congri'ss. and Ibey operaleij things there in a way that did not do silver much goml. Well, now, what was the effect of Ihis thing? Why, there was at that lime -flOO.oi 10.000 of indebtedness, public and private. There were .'i!25.00(i in the civilized world of national debts, payable in either gold or silvei'. There was three or four times that amount in private debts, incorporated debts, city debts and state debis, municipal debts of every kind pi'obablv three or four times; that makes $75,000,000,000 more, making .'PIOO.OIwi.OhX).- 000. Now, a large poi'tion of this was coidrolled in Europe by Rolbscliilds and other syndicates all working in harmony, they placing it among the people that enjoyed these fixed Incomes, and then il was invested in bonils for them, and they conlrolled it. Now. the object id making it more valu- able was this: We had an aggregate then approximalely. say .'(!LW»,it(HM> had been dependent for genera- tions upon America for a supply of breadstuffs. \\'e had to pay enormous prices. Our dominions in India were not able to compete with America in the production of wheat. Now. behold, we take 70 cents, go to America and buy a dollar's worth of sih er. because they all said that the purchas- ing power of silver had not perceptibly diminished in America or Asia, and they estimated it would take htuidreds of years before that great mass of people could be taught that their unit of money in silver was not standard; they think it has intrinsic value — all Asia thinks that, and all .Asia cannot be educated; consequently they will come to some kimi of rental of properly, and they can take, as I said before, seventy cents, buy a dollar's worth of silver, and there buy as much wheat as anywhere: and by that process you raise the price of Indian wheat from nothing to fcu'ty cents per acre. Besides there is South America. .\rgentini> Republic and Chile brought much on a similar basis, and some from Russia, which is not on a gold basis: but our importations from the I'nited States have fallen off in this artice of wheat in the last sixteen years at least one half, and the price has fallen 33 1-3 per cent." .Now. do not you see that has accomplished something from effect: and the manufacturer comes up and says "I am manufacturing here on a gold basis, and I have to sell my conmiodities in India on a silver discount, and there is thirty per cent." They say to the manufacturer. "Why look at the situation? \\'e give you cheap food: we liberated you from buying high priced food from America; we did that; that is a great gain. We did another thing for you: we de- veloped India, and you have the monopoly of trade with India — there are 250.000.000. and we have other colonies where we give you a monopoly, making probably a monopoly id' 3(X>.(KX).000 of iieople that \(iu can suijjdv with cheap food. That enables you to manufacture cheaply, because ynu can have enormous sales, and therefore you must submit to this with the idea that you will be ultimately heneifited because our trade range are such that we can ki-ep them without putting nn tai'iffs at all— we can 812 PUOC.KEDINGS AM) DEBATES koi'l) (lut, others by govonimi'iit. mail rogulations — govmiicd by Ihi? military — and vvn ran give you thai, tradi'. Now, is it not bottcr to g-ct yoiii' wheat I'i'oin India than to be dependent nn the L'nited Stales?" 'i'hi-n came lh« great argument. Thei'e were thirteen oommissioners. Ctiainberlain was one of them; ho resigned and thai made twelve. Well, they voted at the end six to six. Si.\ ot that side tiiat under no cireumstances would they consider the system of demonetizing silver. The other six said it might possibly be — while they woidd suggest for the consideration of parliament that it might possibly be a good thing. They said "We do not underrate the all important consideration that England is the creditor nation," all debts payable in gold, and that anything thai will raise the |)rice of com- modities generally, that is thai will make gold cheap — anything that will make gold cheap and pro|ierty dealer, raises the price of commodities anywhere — will Ijc injiH"ious to England; that she now has the commercial supremacy of the world; that all the world is paying tribute lo her. and that the coulract is that the triltule shall be paid in money: consequently the lowest money we ha\ e the more of toil il will take from all the na- tions of Ihe world to jiay that tribute. That is what they said, and that Iteinj; the Colli I'olling interest, (hat being Ihe controlling nioti\e, W(^ will adhere In golil." And thei'e are those greedy enough lo stop the mining of gold it it can be carried out: but they ha\e carried this thing loo far now; lhe\' have carried it to the verge of lianki'uptcy. Take the railroads for in stance. This United States has been the fat goose to pluck e\er since the war. We showed such enormous vigor in meeting our obligations anil such sturdy honesty after the war, and such lioundless resources as to as tonish the people of Europe, and our banks in Xew York foi'ined partner- ships wilh Ihe money lenders of Europe — those that had the disposition of the bonded indebtedness of the world; they foi-med a syndicate with thi>m; they rejiresenled that all that appeared to be true was true, that wilh the resources of America we are boundless, that there was no debt thai she could not pay; and on that they formed syndicates, and when they wanted money for railroads, and towns wanted money, etc.. they had these syndi- cates loan to them, and they borrowed more than was absolutely neces- sary. It is remarkable (hat some men have gotten rich liy morlgagin-' them for two or three times their cost, but Ihe debts are there, and the mortgages are there, and Ihe people who own them have got to get along the besj they can. Railroads have got the great load to carry. Ind they are not complaining; that would destroy their credit and the bonds would be sent home. They dare not even complain; they dare not even to say "you must not press this thing too far"; but the people who are paying railroad freights and fares throughout the United States, from which they are to gel their money have already given thiMn their notice prac- tically by the decreasing business on the railroads and the shrinking busi- ness everywhere that nwney is getting too dear and property is gettinsr too cheap, and something must be done to relieve the situation. \Ve are told, however, that we are silly children and have not yet investlgali'd the question. "Why. what a crazy man he is." they say. to hear me talk \ this way. They say you can borrow money for less than two per cent in 'New York. Yes. you can, and what does that show? That sub.ject was con sidered by this commission, too, and they said that it was a sign that money was tight there. Why, this circulatingmedinm, this blood of civiliza- tion, money that circidales there, il is like Ihe blood that circulates in the sys- tem, when a patient is sick it will rush to the head, and if you bleed him he will die. Now, here the money of this country is loo clear lo put in an ordinary business; it is too dear for that, and consequently exerybody is curlailiTig his expenses, I'cducing wages, cutting off expenses, reducing and trying to meet the slorm when it comes. The whole country is providing for this storm, and the money lias gone to the center of Ihi^ covndry, it seeks imestmenl somewhere, and it will lake gilt-edged securities— bonds, and money is gelliii}.' (dieap for thai purpose: and I submit to Ihe ])eople if money is cheap for business purposes, soiuidhing has lo be done. Wlial do you suggest? I would suggest Ibis, as I believe this count r\- is in a con- dition lo get on a sound financial basis. 1 would lake all tl](> gold and sil ver that is produced and issue coin certificates payable in either gold nr silver coin — making no distinction. I would take it at our ratio of sixteen to one. They say that would be a great swindb'. Who would if swindle? Silver would be at par th<' next day after Ihat, and woulii remain al i)ar as long as the United Slates would do thai, because nobody would sell sil- ver in any jiart of the world tor less (irice Ihan they could get in the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 813 United States, consequently tliat would be the price of it if we could give that. Then there would be no more cheap silver to buy wheat in India. Then silver would go up, then we would have what money in circulation we could produce ill gold and silver. We would destroy the old limitation upon it. and we would restore to the people the benefits of the discoveries of modern times. We would revive mining. They sneer at that. They say that we want to sell our silver money — these gold bugs say "They want to sell their silver." Now, I do not make any poor mouth about the silver matters. I undertake to say tliat our sufferings are nothing compared to the wheat sufferers, and you have got a better country in Montana to bring out the silver moneys than anyone: it is at least as good as any of them. We can use all our siher mines and develop this country and make it as good as any country. But was it a good thing for this counti'y when we were tlie largest silver producing country in the world, when we led off in de\elnping mines, when the genius of the American people had opened up mines to extract the gold — and were really the men that were causing the gold to be produced in this and other countries — was it a good thing to destroy them to sacrifice them — to do no good to any person — to do no good to any person in the world except themselves that live on fixed in- comes'.' Was it a good thing to destroy one of. the principal industries of the country without excuse, and however they may sneer at us, there has been dishonestly taken from us by legislation in actual discounts, besides the destruction of many properties anil the ruin of many men that had spent their lifetime in developing the country here — had devoted their lives to the de\elopment of the mines — there has heiMi actually taken from us in actual money on the silver proceeds of this country over $90,000,000 of money. (Applause;. Taken from us to give to whom? To American citizens? No. To be given to foreign bondholders to enrich them: because we are a borrowing nation — debtor nation: and the witnesses that we called before the interstate commission sneered at us and said "Who can imagine the value of America — a wheat producing, bread producing coun- try, a silver producing country, a debtor country that is destroying one of their greatest industries, contract their currency and augment their debts." They laughed at us as silly. Still the Treasury Department will take its dictation through London and New York, and follow their dictations, and it has been so for the last twenty-five years. Now, I do not propose any new thing. I am not an inflationist. I want honest money, and I do not want them to interfere with it by legislation. If we are to take the precious metals that have been handled for four thousand years, let no legislative authority interfere with it or tamper with it. (Applause). Now, the ar- gument they have is this, that we cannot do this alone, that we must ask Europe's consent, and every emissary of the bondholders will say, "I am a better bimetallist than you are, but you must get England and other ctuintries to agree." If we cannot do it with the consent of the bondhold- ers we can never do it and they know it. They never will consent to re- linquishing the advantages they have got of the .\merican people, for it is American property they are plundering. Applause. .\ow. it was well developed in this invi'stigation that there is no accumulation of silver bullion anywhere. London economists sold it out anrl said there was more coin b\ ei,i;hteen per cent used in the bonds than was produced. They said there must be that much coin of the old coin: that it was all con- sumed, that there is no surplus silver anywhere in the world: and then ii, was said with a great deal of truth by people acquainted with Asia that a vast multitude of that country who used silver were being stimulated to little more activity and the demand for silver was constantly increas- ing. I tell you it does not go up be,000 dollars of the remaining national bank currency to be retired. There are 69.000,000 of the 4% per cent bonds that will mature at that time. So the whole of the national bank currency will run out in a few years, without legisla- tion. Now, something must be done. Now, these bondholders in Europe believe that our credit is immaculate. Let a few railroads default and the bonds will come here for collection and for sale. 50,000,000 of dollar-^ have gone in the last six months — 70,0(X>,0<10 of gold and silver. It is going very rapidly now, and if they should get a lilfle scared they would call for it, for we cannot pay them in wheat: they have pul down thi' price of wheat. We have got (o pav in gold. That is the time oiu- gold will go and not till then. H\it I sav it will lake 300,000.000 lo put us right. There will be 900,000,000. Then with the increase of populadon and business from year to year you have got to increase it. Does any- body believe we can get OOO.OOO.OtXt (d' gold and silver, or even 800 or (i(X).000,000 of gold and silver in the next nine or ten years? I do no! believe it is possible, if we will take all of the goli1 and sdver that is produced at a rale of Ifl to I and issue coin cerlificales payable in coin to overreach the metallic basis: but supiiose that we take all (hat we can get, and suppose (hat we can get 1,500,000.000 of guld and siher piled up. then according to any soiuid principle of banking we could Ueep an issue, and it would be a reserve. So that take this particidar o|)por(uni(y, g(>( all (he gold and silver we can — no country ever had too nuich — and reach a metallic basis if we can. If we can get a basis for a circulation (hat will circulate' Ihroughout the world, that is what we want to do, and what these new Stales will help do. I think they have got to have somelhim,'. They will (ry (o pa(ch up more national hank not(>s or some ephemeral thing that is not sanctioned by (he ages, ^\'hen (he people gel ricli enoujjh (hat they can evade fiat money: bid while a mass of mankind must ailliere to metallic money give us our I'iglil Ihat we shall have it measured fairly by the amounis of money (ha( can be produced, and wi' will eiwieli the people of the east and all Europe — the struggling peojile e\erywlii're CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 815 and thai delve in the niine^ lieie we will increase in the production; we will give them a little more money every year so that property and wages may go up rather than down; so that, these generations may enjoy the benefits and blessings of the great discoveries in coining that have been made. I say to the bondholders it is better for you to do this than to take the chances of repudiation. The iieople of the United States cannot con- tinue to pay fares and freights on railroads sufficient to pay the interest on the debts already contracted, let alone paying dividends to the stock- holders. The thing will stop itself as easily as two and two make four. The demonetizing of silver has not only effected that matter, but it has diminished the [iroduction of gold. You all know that 1-3 and perhaps Vo of all the gold that is produced is produced in combination with silver or silvtT mines, and that the mines throughout the world that are worked for both gold and silver would not pay if worked for one of the metals alone. Let the monometallists have their way and demonetize silver so as to stop these mines, and you will have to cut off more than one-half of the gold supply, and here we will be vastly increased in population; there will be a vastly increased demand for money and a constant decline, perpetual and forever withering contraction. And it is here in America — here alone that this can be withstood. The common people do not dis- cuss it; they have no means of discussing it. Etirope is governed by the bondholders, by the people living on fixed incomes, and they issue their decrees and they must be obeyed. It has, beside, a military camp, and any attempt at strikes or resistence is quickly quelled by the force of their military establishments. It is here in free .\merica that we must restore an honest standard of money and prevent those holding fixed capital from destroying this civilization by contraction. They are depriv- ing this generation of a great boon that the discovery and development of mines has furnished for us. It is our heritage; it is the heritage of civilized man that mines had been discovered and that civilization has progressed. We protest and will ever protest against the crime of the century that undertook to interfere with that right — undertook to cut off half the supply of the precious metals for the selfish purpose of increas- ing the obligations of contracts and adding millions and millions of days of toil — making it necessarj' for millions of days of toil — who can estimate it? — to pay the debt that has already been made by the increase of thirty-five per cent of the existing debts of the world besides the thousands that are thrown out of employment and must starve in consequence of it. We say that we will protest against this crime and we will work in season and out of season to restore this country to its money, to i-estore it to its inheritance which gave it an independent finan- cial policy, it needs tliat as much as it needs political independence; it needs financial independence quite as much. Its financial dependence upon England is most degrading. The fact that the telegraph can send through New York to London for the orders of financial managers, and that those in the treasury department of all parties obey their behests is humiliating to us Americans: when they tell you that they are bimetal- lists, you must ask England to tell them that they must^ stop talking such nonsense, that they are in the employ of the enemy and attempting to betray you; that you are willing to trust the limitation that the word has placed for the last four tltousand years upon the amount of currency: that you will take the amount, let it be covered by the amount of gold and silver that can be produced, and until some evil results from using these metals and it be made apparent to you, you will not change. If the crop of gold and silver fail, the creditor would say I must have my gold and silver. Why. when we have a crop of gold we are not en- titled to it. Why"? .\re not enterprise and civilization entitled to it? Why are those that live on fixed incomes and can produce nothing and live upon the toil and sweat of others, why should legislation be made for them particularly, which shall impoverish the masses. \\'hy, Mon- tana. Washington, Idaho and the two Dakotas w-ill join with Kansas, Nebraska and other States which understand this question — and I am glad that there are here now two champions of the rights of the people and have stood up on all occasions for the rights of honest money. My two colleagues on this committee have done yeoman work in behalf of the people and have opposed contraction at every step. Be assured that those who have come here among you are in full sympathy with you — full sympathy with honest money — full sympathy with the development 816 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES of tliis counti'y. and we have come here, if we can, to find nut how we can do you good. (Applause) Mr. Maginni.s of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President. I move to take a recess until half [last one, when we will listen to the distinguished col- leagues of the gentleman who has so eloquently addressed us. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the queston on the motion of the gentleman from Lews & Clarke and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The convention look a recess until 1:30 P. M. Friday, .August 9tli, 1889. Afternoon Session. The convention was called (o order by the President at 1:30 P. M. The Clerk called the roll. The Presidest: The convention will now have the pleasure of listen- ing to another of our distinguished visitors. Senator Reagan. I have the honor to introduce to you Senator Reagan from Texas. (Applause) Senator John H. Reagon of Texas spoke as follows: Senator: Mr. President and gentlemen of the convention. I esteem it a very great honor to have the privilege of appearing before the chosen representatives of the Territory of Montana and of saying a few words in reference to questions which not only interest your immediate section but the whole country. The Congress of the United States have made provision for securing surveys to determine where the waters are located which may be used for irrigation, and for setting apart such waters and the land necessary to apply them to the use of the public. The Senate of the United States felt that the question was one of sufficient import- ance to justify the appointment of a committee to inquire into the question of irrigation in the arid regions of the United States. When we remem- ber that about four-ninths of the terrritory of the United States is in a condition which requires irrigation to utilize ils soul and to give the full fruition of its crops, you will understand how important the question is to us. The question of irrigation is not a new one (o our country. It is older than history, established in Egypt and Asia. It has been extensively applied for a long time to much of Europe, especially in Italy, in Spain, and more recently in France. It has been extensively applied in the Re- public of Mexico, and in Central and South America. So fliat we have much information on this subject to guide our actions, and may avail ourselves of the experience of other countries in the development of a system of irrigation for the people of the United States. I do not profess to be familiar with the subject, though I have been learning as much as I could from my disthiguished friend, the Senator from California, and from Major Powell who is along with us — trying to learn all I can to join in an intelligent report to the Senate as to such facts as may guide the action either of the federal or state governments or territoi'ial govern- ments, or of the people themsehes. I shall not go into any detailed dis- cussion of the question of irrigation. The apidication of rules which would distribute the water that may be obtained for the irrigation of the alluvial lands of the cfiuntry is one of a great deal of interest; it is one of much difficulty, and gives rise to a great deal of controversy where there is no certain system whereby the water of the dilches can ho applii^d to the soil. I am inclined to the belief that the plan suggested by Majrr Powell will probably be found to be the best. I would nol encouragi' Ihi' people lo expect too much from llie federal government. U will no doubt furnish sur\eys and (he information necessary to enable (he Slate and Territorial governments and the people to avail themselves of such water privileges as may be within (iieir reach. That i( will rnd'r u|ion th'' .system to provide irrigation is doubtful, is improbable. I do not know how far the States and Territories may take up this subjccl in detail. The plan suggested by Major Powell, who is better infoniicd upon (his subjeci (ban I am, is (o form iiTigation dis(ric(s. each basin (o form a separa(e district, to be organi/.i'il and controlled by the in'ople of the locality, tuider I'ules which will di.striliule water lo llie lands which are (o l)e supplied by iri'igalinn ii\ Ihese dislricls. gixing the local comtuun- i(y (he conlnd of (lie queslion of tlie application of (be wa(er (o (he soil. I am a very great believer in self-govei'nnient and In local self- government, and I am a very gi-eal beliexer in llii' go\enuneut of the pe(>ple by snmebody llial is a good ways off I'mni lliem. While I make COiNSTITUTION.\L CONVENTION 1889 817 this fjoncral distinction, as I said. I do not propose to go into Itie discus- sion of irrigation in detail. We stiail visit, after leaving this territory, Washington Territory, Western Oregon, Utah, Nevada, California. Arizona, New Slexico, Texas, Colorado and Kansas. That, is in our plan. It is to ob- tain all the information we can upon this subject that we may lay before the Senate. I shall not occupy further time upon this subject. There is another question that was presented to you by Senator Stewart to which 1 desire to call attention. In the first place I desire to say that the ad- mission of the four new states now in preparation for admissiou into the sisterhood of states, with probably two or three others soon t(» follow, is going to form an epoch of this country, it is going to secure a power to represent the interests of the West which if has nevei' passed. ^Applause . It is going tn promote the wealth of the western country. It has so happened tor nearly a Lpiarter of a century past that this government has' been run in the interest of classes at the expense of the great masses of the people, and it may not be inappropriate before the members of this convention to point out some of the things which have been done in this line, as it is to be hoped when these new states send their Senators and Representatives to Washington they will send men who will represent their interests and their own people, and not men who will represent Wall Street and London and Berlin and who will aid in enslaving the American people. Applause . It will be remembered that the government of the United States was involved in a very large del3t in the prosecution of the recent civil war, and to a large extent to the is- suance of its notes until the redundance of these notes greatly reduced their value. In order to restore them to par or more nearly to iiar the government attempted a policy of funding these notes into interest bearing bonds. In order to induce the people who had money to fake these bonds, it was provided that they might be purchased by the legal tender notes at par. which, when many of them were purchased, were worth about 50 cents on the dollar; so that a man with lOO.tXK) dollars of coin could buv $200,000 of notes, and that is $200,000 of notes could buy •S200,000 of in- terest bearing bonds, the interest payable semi-annually in gold. Thus it so happened that the holders of coin were able to' double their money on this transaction. I do not mention this to criticise the action of the Government, but simply mention the fact as the beginning of a system of measures which could not be lost sight of in this country. It may be possible it was the best that could be done under the circumsta^nces. As to that I express no opinion. I only suggest that of the hundreds of milli'jns — the thousands of millions of notes' funded, the persons and cor- porations purchasing them double their investment. \Mien fifty years ago Stephen Girard, by a long course of industry and trade and by some rtMuarkable accidents, acquired a fortune of three millions of. dollars, it was thought to be a very wonderful thing: it was the subject of remai'k thiouahout the country. Of recent years we see that men obtain fortunes fen and twenty and fifty and one hundred, and in a few instances two hun- dred millions of dollars, in a short time. Now, we all understand and know that no man by legitimate business or legitimate speculation can earn such a fortune in the lifetime of a human being. The men who make these fortune? are not supposed to be thieves: they are not thieves in the fig- ured sense of the world, nor are they robbers in the sense of the man who takes your money at the muzzle of the gvm: but these fortunes are made by the legislation of this country which has been under the moneyed classes. iAp|)lause . At least I shall submit fads which determine that to my mind: you are to determine whether they demonstrate it to vou or not. In 1869 when the law was passed which had for its title an "Act to Strengthen the Public Oedit." it was provided that these bonds which had been purchased for the Government notes worth fifty cents on the dollar should be paid in coin, that is in gold and silver <'oin. of the weight and fineness prescribed by law. Up to that time they were payable in lawful money, which meant gold coin, silver coin and the legal tender notes of the Government. The bondholders, who had got the bonds for fifty cents on the dollar, with the gold interest payable semiannually, concluded that the legal tender notes with wliieb they purchased them were not good enough to redeem them. They were good enough for the soldiers anil sailors of the country to pay them: they were good enough for the pub- lic officers and public contractors: they were good enough for all classes of people except this chosen class which had purchased its bonds at fifty cents on the dollar. They were not good enough for them. Some of the 818 PRC)CEEL)lN(iS AND DEBATES intfirfsted men in this cer cent of all the silver taken from the surface of the earth. Now, mv friends, let us inquire in our minds whether if Great Britain and Oer- manv or either of them had been iilaced by the Almighty with such a source of wealth as our silver mines,, they would have been willing to de- stroy and sacrifice the people. Who believes it? I do not suppose a sane CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 81!) man oil i^arlh believes that either of those governments would have con- sented to such a Iravui and outrage upon their people. Let us inquire of oui'selves whether our eastern cities such as Boston, New York, Philadel- phia, Baltimore — if in their \ieinity and in their states they possessed these sources of wealth, whether they \wiuld have consented to surrender it. Who supposes they would? But that was not the case. They were the holders of tlie public security — of the credits of tiie country to a large extent. The silver was to be mined in the distant west that was to be represented in the Congress of the United States, and they seemed not to find it difficult to get plenty of newspapers to advocate honest money. That is a violation of the contract between the Government and the peo- ple in the second instance, for the making of millionaires on the one side and iiaupers on the other, (.\pplause'. ,\ow, my friends, if Montana and the two Dakotas and Washington sliall send Senators and Representatives to Washington to cooperate with the four Pacific States and with Colo- rado and Kansas and .Missouri and .\rkansas and Texas and the popula- tions of the Southern States, and such other States as will cooperate with us. we will produce a change in the legislati^■e experience of this country (Applause and pro\ide for the free and unlimited coinage of silver. (Ap- plause . Now. in order to discredit silver — for after we had secured by the act of 1877 the unlimited coinage of silver, still the government in every administration we have had, no matter by what party — the govern- ment has cooperated with the bondholders ami the banks to discredit and to degrade silver. One of the means has been in this way: Gold is coined at the expense of the government. And the gold taken from the mint, whether (d' bullion or of coin, is coined and recoined at the mint of the United Stales free of expense to the holder of the bullion or the coin to be so used. Now, then, silver, on the contrary, is required to pay to the govern- ment a certain percent for its coinage, and it is a considerable amount, I mention that to show you the drift of legislation and the purpose to de- grade silver in the interest of the bondholders, the bankers and the capi- talists and the men who have fixed incomes, I therefore say to you if you will send men that represent our new states to cooperate with those al- ready in the Union we will secure the free and unlimited coinage of silver as we now have the free and unlimited coinage of gold. (Applause!. We will not only do that but we will relieve men who are so much dis- tressed about the difficulty of carrying silver about, by providing for the issuance of coin certificates — not silver certificates — not gold certificates, to enable them to keep up the distinction between the price of gold and silver — but coin certificates redeemable in gold or silver at the pleasure of the government, at the ration of sixteen to one as provided by our law and take away all temptation to degrade silver any further. I mention these things for the purpose of showing you that hundreds of millions — thousands of millions of dollars have been transferred fi-om the produc- ers of property and given to the moneyed classes by operation of law. and under the policy of the government, and I have done it in order that youc attention, which has no doubt before been called to it, may be reawak- ened to the necessity of meeting this contingency in providing for your representation in the two Houses of Congress. Now, we have been told by the men who are determined that silver shall not be placed in its proper place, that we cannot afford to remonetize silver excepting by agreement with other countries. Well, if you are only to secure the re- monetization of silver when Great Britain and Germany consent, it will never be remonetized. Why? Because both countries, and especially Great Britain, are large creditor nations. The English people are the cred- itors of every civilized government on earth and of corporations in all the civilized world. A large portion of the revenue of that country consists of interest bearing bonds they hold upon other governments and the cor- porations and the people of other coimtries. Whatever will increase the value of those securities will benefit their people, and one of the ways to increase their value is to decrease the different kinds and the volume of money out of which these securities can be paid: so that as a matter of public policy they desire that silver should be demonetized, and they make their contracts for the debts credited among them payable in gold in their own country. A state or a corporation goes to their banks or moneyeil men for accommodation with those bonds. They perhaps give him ninety, maybe eighty, maybe seventv-five cents on the dollar for bis bonds, take them at their face and demand the payment of interest at the full face in gf)ld. ami the payment id' the principal in gold: so 820 PHOCEEUlNGiS AND DEBATES Uiat tliey gel the inleresi and yel llie (iisi-cmnl on these hniids and all of tliPin are required to be paid in yold. I cannot, now call up an i-stinuite of tlie iimount. of the credits whieh (ireal Hritain holds against other countries, liut it is enormous, and she has all Ihat temptation to henefil the moneyi'cl classes, thereby reducing the kind of nioni_'y in which those oldiyations can be paid. Her"o\Aii citizens, the middle classr'S, and the laboring- classes, suffer by the demonetization of silver and are clamoring for its remone- tization, "and the clamor has been so great in Germany recently thai it is believed that Germany will be compelled to remonelize silver by the de- mands of her people. Now, then, there are but few states if any in the Union but that owe debts besides llie large national debt which so far has been of late greatly reduced. Tiie railroad corporations owe thousands of millions of dollars: the most of them owe the entire cost of the construc- tion of these roads, and are Irving to pay the interest on them, and il(_'bls are generally measured by tlic amount of bonds it is possible for them to float: so that the debt iionesMy contracted and the watered stock alike has all to pay its interest, and with silver demonetized have not only to pay the principal but the interest of those debts in gold coin. The [leople are largely indebted and were then — an active, energetic people, enterpris- ing people in the country where enterprises are frequently start(>il, and debts contracted to push them forward, and yet in the interest of the moneyed classes the currency is contracted, the silver taken from circula- tion in large measure and bonds in circulation, in a large measure de- graded: and these men who owe debts, who have mortgages upon tluur property, have twice the difficulty of paying their debts and lifting those mortgages that they wouhl have with a free circulation of currency of both siTver and gold in equal scale. My friends, I feel I should be trespassing'to take up your time loager. I will conclude by saying that you will find many states outside of these new states, and their Representatives and Senators prepared to cooperate with you not only in removing these olisfacles to prosperity and restoring a iH'o'iiei' gold and silvei' and a proper amount of currency, but you will find fliem ready to cooperate with you in other respec'ts which I have not the time to discuss now, in relieving the masses of the people against the burdens imposed upon them by unjust legislation — by legislation which has made millionaires to which I referred, and which is causing the great masses of people to struggle from year's end to year's end, scarcely able to meet their liabilities and take care of their families, (.\pplause'. The President: Gentlemen of the Convention, I have the pleasure and honor of introducing to you Major Powell, Director of the I'nileii Stales Geological Survey. Major Powell siioke as follows: Major Powell: Mr. President, and (lentlemen, it is with some degrei' of embarrassment that I speak to you after the distinguislied gentlemen who have spoken today, and who have discussed national affairs so elo- (luently and so ably to you. I such discussion I have taken no part. 1 cann^ to this country rather as a pioneer. I am older in this cmmlry than most of you. I feel as though most of you were new comers here and were teiilierleet. I came at an early time, and I want to talk now as one of tin- old pioneers, if you please, and not in the capacity of a statesman. i.Vjv plausei. It has fallen under my obsei-vatiou from time to time and beiMi a source — a theme of study for many yeai'S, the general question what would ultimately become of this country what would be (he form of the industries in this country anij the form of government in this country? For you are under peculiar conditions, [n the eastern half of the I'nited States we have settled govermnents, that is we have state and local gov- ernments adapted to the physical conditions of their country: b\it in the western half of America, tlie local, tiie state, the territorial, county gov- ernments and the regulations and Ihi- national government are in no sense adapted to the jihysical conditions of the counti-y. fApplausi' . .\nd these are the problems wliich have been interesting nie for many years, and I will illustrate it by simply stating soniewhat of the pinsical conditions of this state now forming, and ex|)lain to you what seems lo me as an oiri pioneer, not as a statesman, if you please — what seems lo me to hi' the form of local government, and the ada|itation of institutions of lhes(> physi- cal conditions, which are necessary for your |)rosperity, and which you will, as 1 believe, ultimately liave, Montana has an area of about, if my memory sei'vi-s me, ninety millions of aci-es. Of that ninety millions thirty-five millions of acres are mountainous — thii'ty-five millions of acres CONSTITLTIONAI. CONVENTION 1889 821 of land are dedicated to special industries thereby. In those iiiouiitains you will find silver and gold, copper, lead, and in the mountains more or less iron, in the flanks iron and coal. But the mountain region has some- thing more in it of value, as you will see. The mountain region is the timber' region of the country. On the plains and in the valleys no timber grows. The regions below are in part agricultural and in part pastural. And the remaining poi'tion. leaving out the mountain area, about thirty- five million acres of land, can be redeemed by irrigation, according to the latest estimates and careful study of the matter, wliich we have made for the last two years. It must be understood that if thirty-five million acres id' land were redeemed by irrigation in this country, it means the utiliza- tion of all its waters — it means that no drop of water, which is tlie blood of agriculture, if you please, the life blood of agriculture— that no drop of water falling within the area of the state shall flow beyond the boun- daries of the state. It means that all the waters falling within the state will be utilized upon its lands for agriculture. That is made under some careful estimate and partial estimate of the volumes of water running in yoiu- streams, a study of the rainfall of a district, and upon a further com- putation that it will take one acre of water to irrigate one acre of land. Now. understand what I mean by one acre of water, for as engineers wo do not reckon water in inches of flow, but in acre feet. An acre of water one foot in depth we call an acre foot, and on an average in Montana for years, irrigation of an acre of land requires an acre foot of water. It is a \ ery simple ratio as you see. If all of the water flowing in the streams of .Montana be used — not all the water flowing during the season of irri- gation, but all of the water is used in irrigation, it will irrigate about thirty-five million acres: but in order to utilize all of this water and to redeem all of this land it becomes necessary to store the waters which are usually run to waste; that is the season of irrigation in Motnana will vary from six weeks to nine weeks: in some few cases it will be longer than that, but in the main we may say that the time of irrigation, the season of irrigation will be about two months. With that understanding, ten months of the flow runs to waste, and in order that the thirty-five million acres of land be redeemed for .agriculture within this state, it is necessary to use all that water running to waste to the sea — to store it. Then there remains twenty million acres of land which cannot be used tor agriculture, which are yet in the mountains and not covered by tin^- ber. but which yet have more or less value fi>r pasturage purposes. That is the condition, and. gentlemen, it is a magnificent heritage — nineteen million acres af land: thirty-five million acres of mountains covered with forests, and with mountains filled with ores — thirty-five million acres of land as rich as any other that lies under the sun. to be made fertile, to be made to yield in vast abundance by the utilization of these waters. It is no misfortune as at first it may appear — it is no ultimate misfortune to the people that their land is aiid. The thirty-five million acres of land which you have to redeem by irri'^ation will be to you much more valu- able than if that water was disti'ibuled evenly over the country so that there was sufficient rainfall and irrigation was unnecessary. To those who have not studied the subject with care, the proposition seems perhaps somewhat quixotic, and yet tiiei'e is a long line of history to prove what I have said. I will not stop to enter upon this line of the subject, but I wish to call the attention of you gentlemen to some of tlie conditions which you must me»t in order to secui-i' the prosperity of these people. The question of irrigation then is undoubtedly bound up with some other questions of almost equal importance, as you will see as I proceed. The timber of this country grows on the mountains: it is therefore not dis- tributed throughout the country where it is needed. The agricultural people will have their timber lands five, ten, twenty, fifty and one bun- dled mill's away from home, but the people who want to use that timber and who live down in the valleys and spread abroad over the plains, they are the people primarily interested in the forests, and the people who own the irrigable lands must own and must control the forest lands, for a part of their prosperity depends upon the utilization and preservation of those forests. There is still another reason. In the mountainous region like those in the arid country, a large part of the rain falls upon the moun- tains. Usually throughout Montana you have say from twelve (o fifteen inches of rainfall in the low country and from twenty to twenty-five. forty, fifty and even sixty inches of rainfall on the mountains. The wafer necessarv to fertilize the agricultural lands falls somewhere else — falls 822 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES upon thfse mountains. And the men wlio are engaged in at-'rifulture in tlie valleys and on tlie plains are intei'eslod in (he mountains t(ir another reason than that they must. deri\e their souice of timber" from them. Every iota of value there is to the lands to be redeemed for agriculture depends upon the water with which they are supplied. J'lie intrinsic value exists in the water. And the water falls not on their own land — the water falls elsewhere in the mountains, and hence the people who live by agi'iculture behiw have a dduhle reason tor being interested in the forests and mountains above, and uUimately Ihey must control those mountain acres — the agriculturists must own and control not only the lands which they occupy Ihemselves. but also the lands where the timbers grow, and also the lands where the waters fall which make their lands valuable. Now, having made this brief statement of the conditions and the facts at large, let me apply them. The slate is in the formative condition. Vou are met here to adopt a constitution, and there are questions that ulti- mately will be of vast interest to tiiese people — and I beg pai'don almost for mentioning them, but I have mentioned them from the standard not of a statesman but only of a pioneer — a man in the country earlier than occupants usually and you must take them only for what they ai-e worth from an observer, and not a statesman. But this is the point. The whole area of Montana may be easily divided into drainage basin districts of country which constitute a geographical — a physical unity: a region like the Gallatin Valley, for example, with a river flowmg down through I he valley with its tributaries on either side, heading out from the mounlains to the very rim of the Gallalin basin on either side. Every man who settles within the valley of Gallatin comes ultimately to be interested in every part of that valley, because it is the entire Ciallatin valley, the whole drainage basin, gathers the water for his farm. Only a portion of these valleys can be redeemed for agriculture; another portion will be utilized ultimately for pasturage. High up in the valleys we have the timber lands, and higher up the valleys we have the mountains where the waters an' con- densed. The people below must necessarily be interested in the whole drainage basin around about where these waters are gathered. Now. agri cultural industry carried on under conditions where irrigation is abso- lutely necessary, are carried on under very peculiar conditions as com- pared with those of humid lands. You have not in this territory reached a condition of affairs where the mafl''rs which I now wish to present to you yet press upon you. They may in some few localities only; but very speedily the question of water rights — who owns this water, is to be the important question in this country, remember the question ot land rights is compai'alively a minor one as compared with water rights, and water (-aiuiot be mcasui-ec out (o you by meets and hounils; you cai.nol lay out lines and drive stakes in the clouds of the heav(>ns from whence the waters come. They pour down today in storms and tomorrow in storms, and the year in storms, and flow down to the rivers and creeks, and you have to measure them out by gallons or by acres from day to day, from month to montli and from year to year. .\il I he great \alues of this Territory have ultimately to be measured to you in acre feet, and in the preparation of a constitution for this great State this great fact should be held in view. Now, without entering too largely into the question of pointing out the necessities for regulating the use of waters and the measurement of waters etc., I w-ant to present to you what I believe to be ultimately the political system which ypu ha\e got to adojit in this country, and which llie United Slates will be compelled sooner or latei' ultimately to recogni/e. I think that each drainage liasin in the ai'id land must ultimately become the practical unity of organization, and it would be wise if you could immediately adopt a county system which would be coincident wilh drainage basins, for in e\ei'y such drain- age basin you have got to have fir'sl the water courts. Disputes will arise fi'om day to day about the waters, anil in every district there must be ultimately a water co\irt. There must be a corps of officers, water master or supervisors who measure out Ibis water for the people. The general government cannot, the State govei-nment will nol measure the water for you, neither can Ihey measure it for lhemsel\es, and you have got to have local self government to manage that mallei'. 'Then the people who are interested in these waters .'in' also iiderested in the timber, and the people who are inleresti'd in Ilie water's and agricullural lands are interested in the pastm-age nf I hose lands. .\nd now I convf briefly to state what I believe should be done. First. I belii've that the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 823 priinaiy unity df urganizalidii in llu' arid laiuis slmuld bi> Hip .irainage basin whicli winiid practically ha\e a county organization, if you please, with coiuily courts, etc. — I iioed not enter into the details — then thai the goverrunenl of the Unitfil States should cede all of the lands of that drainage basin to the people who live in that basin. (Applausej I (io not Ijelicve that the governnunt of the United States can ever keep vii) a police force or a system of agents to manage the timber of this coun- try. (A)iplausej I believe that the people of the drainage basin thern- s-Mves are more interested than any other people can be in that particular drainage basin — that they are the only people who can properly admin- iste:' tliat trust, and I believe that the people who live along evei'y valley in lb'.- country should be the people who control three things besides the land on which they live: they shovild have the control of the water: I hey should have the control ot the common or pasturage lands, and they should have the control of the timber lands I'applause ; and I have no doubt but that could be secureiJ through genei'al legislation ultimately in this ciiuntry. for the interests of (his western country are being rapid- ly understood in the east, and the people are filling up the country so r;:pidly that they are very soon to be able to make the eastern people I expect their wants, their needs, their rights and their wishes. The simi)le question which T have then to present to you. which I think would he worthy of your consideratiim. and whi(;h early in the history of the State or even "in the adoption of your State constitution you should con- sider, is, what should be the primary unit of your government? And I think that the careful study of the matter will show you that the drainage basin is the natural unit and should be a county of this State. If then you will provide a system of counties by drainage basins you have the fundamental organizations, and can in time acquire all the other rights and assume all the other duties which that organization demands. For Ihirty odd years I ha%e been studying' this western country when no irrigation was practical except in a few places in Utah and New Mexico and so I have been traveling about the country from year to year surveying now this portion and now that, and studying from many staiidi'oints. and I have seen gradually agricultural industries growing up, anil today within the arid i-egion not less than seven million acres of land arc cultivated by artificial irrigation, but the time will soon come when this will be multiplied tenfold and one hundredfold, for everywhere throughout the whole region west of the one hundredth meridian the people pre wide awake to this problem. The mountains may he filled with gold and silver: the hills may be filled with coal and iron, but all these have little value unless there is a basis of asriculture for a pros- perous people, and that you can have in all of this country. But in order that you may not have vast cimflicts, in oi'der that irrigation may be developed, that agriculture may be developed, with the least friction. with the least cost of the people, the system which I have mentioned wil' he of untold value. Let me call yoni' attention to two more points .lUst here. The first is. that litigation is a prolific source of expense and e\il, and you should endea\or to in-oxide for a proper system at the very beginning of your Slate for adjusting rights by your fellow citiz(Mis among yourselves. II will save you — you hardly know how much — unless you have studied irrigation in other lands you will hardly know how much, hul it will save you a vast cloud, a vast amount of litigation, lei me repeat once more to you and close with this, that you have three interests, all tied together, and they ought to be tied together in the organization of your body politic as they are tied together by physical conditions. The agricultui'al lands are dependent uprni the mountains above, and the farmers below ought to know the mountains above — own the control of those mountains so far as they are the source of the timber which they must use. and own and control them so far as they are pasturage is concerned, for pasturage on a large scale, the range pasturage which has grown up in all of this western country must ne,"" up the requirements of public life, so rich in those who can express them selves ably upon all occasions, would have expected anything from tue which would add to that which has already been said. I felt when I heard Senator Stewart sjieaking about the results of irrigation in Egypt and India, I thought then if 1 were called upon I might say something by way of admonition in view of the fact that the illustrations which he drew were of places which had entirely disappeared, and so far as any- thing which he said was concerned, they seemed to have made exclusive use of water (laughter) for of that I thought I would hardly need to point to a Montana audience. But that was the only thing that occiu-red to me which was left unsaid in his very admirable address. A famous Englishman said that statesmanship consists in a knowl- edge of the resources of one's own country. If that were literally applied to the American people of today, there would be no statesmen in the best acceptation of the term (aiiplause because no one knows, no one can know, unless he were gifted witli prophetic vision, the entire resources of this country. Suffice it to say that While we learn something every day we know enough now to know tliat this is the greatest country in natural resources there is in the world, (applause i and if it is to be made fit use of it is because the people who inhabit this country are better, wiser and stronger than the people have been elsewhere, t have been a part in a minor way of the institutional history of one of the States of the IJnion,, and the most interesting part of the things that I see any- where around me is the formation and growth of institutions. You are engaged here in preparing for the admission of the Territory into the Union, and I hope that you have been admonished that self government began in mining communities, and that therefore you are expected tn make a constitution of a government which shall be equal not oidy to the constitution and governments of other States with which you shall lie associated, but that it shall be better than all of them put together. The greatest ambition, the only ambition I think worthy of having is that for power, no man unless he be unusually sordid ever would admit that he wanted money for money's sake; he wanted it because it would widen his Iiorizon, because it gave him new power. The men who sit before me are the men who made this country; they are the men who built up its institutions, organized its counties, school houses and churches, and laid bi-oad and deep the foundations of the social order, and whose names and the best of whose judgments and of whose intentions and ideas of justice are to be embodied in the foundations of the government which you are going to lay before tliis convention adjourns: and in that every- one of you will have, for I know the work will be well done — that sense of power which mere money cannot bi'ing. Montana will be one of the States of an imperishable Union. II will be not only one of the States of this Union, but will be a State whi(di Mr, Stewai-t said in his speech in St, Paul in i860 when refei'ring to the source of power in this country — he said it was not the States on the Atlantic or the Pacific coasts thai would speak the will of the American [leople, hut it was the Stales which lay at the sources of the great rivers which contribute an infinite varii>t>- of' sources of wealth and the power and perpetuity of Ihe American people, would finally speak the will of this great, people id' the I'ndeil States, and that the cities on the sea coast were only the mouths which would speak the will of that people. .\nd so it is the men of the interior and the men who live at the sources of the gi'eat water's and the men who li\e not only in the agriculttiral region, for such it has been ili-mon- straled to be by that whiidi has passi'd uiulei' your own obserxation. and which yfin have beai'd today — the men who haxi' that xai'iety of i^esources endiodied in the conjunction of Ihese two gi-eat. industries, agriculture and mining, tliat are finally to be the resources of power' in tin' I'nili'd CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 825 Stall's: and therefore Montana ought to speak not hy the mouths of the senators but by the mouths of the people in whom there is the strongest anil best evidence of the ability of the American people for self govern- ment, represented in the best government here on the crest of the Rocky Mountains. Applause) I do not speak this by way of admonition. I ba\e seen that attrition going on in the mountains, on the plains and in tlie valleys, the result of which has been the selection of the fittest, and I know that no man here and no other man in the Territory, with possibly here and there an exception, has remained among you except it was because he had embodied in him that determination which only expresses best an American citizen — that willingness lo do and that ability to over- come natural obstacles which finally brings together under one head the \ery best that is human. And so I know that of these men in the valleys and the men in the mines and all the men in the limits of these Terri- tories are not here accidentally, but are here upon the principle of selection, and here is to be a community started upon a plain which is ei|ual to that of any of the States of the Union, and I say this for the purpose of expressing to you that which the people of the United States have a right to expect, that in time Montana itself, not as a younger brother — that in time Montana itself, not as a brother-in-law, but as a lieer — not only as a peer, but as a State representing that phase of humanity, that perfection of development in the near future which shall make the older States not only willing to join it hand in hand but to take off the hat as it is always taken off in the presence of superiors. (Ap- plause . And it is this dominion, gentlemen, which is represented gen- erally in what you do today and tomorrow and the next day until you adjourn, which is to be submitted to the suffrage of the peoJDle of Mon- tana and which is to be exhibited finally to the people of the United States and the people of the world as the idea of the people of Montana as to the frami'work of a government fit for a free people. There are some things which have been touched upon by those with whom T have been associated in this committee which I will not speak upon in a gen- eral way. We struggle each foi- his own interest. You struggle for silver, for irrigation, for the things that are peculiar to you. The Atlantic States struggle simultaneously for things that are peculiar to them. All these interests struggling together finally result in compromise, which is supposed to represent as it usually does the general average of interests. It is because we must express ourselves, and liet-ause {hi'\- luM'l<'>n today we may prevail tomorrow that the republican form of government answers to the abilities and the expectations and the hopes of a free people. You are for silver because it is one of your productions: I am for silver because I am for my country and for all the people in it. (Applause T do not mean to say that your standard is less high than mine, but the cause is immediately before your eyes. I am for silver because I am for e^■erything just produced from the soil and under the flag of the American republic (applausei and I take no account of any patriotism that does not consider first a man's neighbor, next his town- ship, next his county, next his State, and next his republic against all the world. u-Vpplause' The millions outside are nothing to us, except as mere atoms in molecular space. If they do not like the situation they are in. the' people of the United States say to them "come and join your fortunes with us"': but as long as they remain where they are, they are foreign to us. speaking in a foreign language, and a foreign tongue, and we prefer first to take care of our own. For these reasons, as I said, T am for silvi'r as I am for gold. I am in favor of developing every resource in .Montana, but in such a way as to beget self help, self reliance and all that impact and contusion of interest and all enterprise, and all enei-gy which makes men stronger. Mr. Seward said as he went out of the gates of Jerusalem one morning that the officer who was in charge of the party as he rode up and down to .-^ee that no one not under permit was in the ranks, cried out "How much man is here?" That is the ques- tion that is always confronting us. "How much man is here?" Give us the man and I know that every irrigable acre of Montana will sometime be de\eloped. riiven the man and T know that there is no atom of silver or gold concealed anywhere in its mountains that finally from enterprise and energy will not secure it. Make institutions for man, develop the manhood, and all the balance comes because this fruitful soil that only needs fo be pricked by the hoe to laugh at the harvest — all these moun- tains that ai'c bound to yield to the impact of your pick will bring forth 826 I'ltuCEEDINGS AND DEBATES ever> tiling Hial. is nalurally allriiiutpd Id llial. I'liocf-'-y ami to thai puter- piisp and to that manhood. (Applause . Now. gt>nt|pini'ii. and .Mr. Presi- dent. I hope that you will exrusp me from anything' further. (Applause' Ttie President: The next in the order id' business will be the reading and presentations of petitions and memorials, which will include remon- strancps. communications, etc., from public bodies. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow sent up a report. The President: The report of the Chairman of the Judiciary Com- mit tec will now be read. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. I^residenf, your Committee on Judi- ciary, to whom was I'eferred I'roposition No. 37 as to the construction of words, havi' directed me to report that they are of the opinion that the matter to which said proposition relates is sufficiently provided for by Section 39 of the Bill of Rights already adopted by this convention. Your committee therefore recommend that said proposition be not adopted. August 9th, 1889. ("Sigupd DI.XON, Chairman. Thp proposition to which the alimc reporl rclVrred was as follows: Proposition by Robinson of Deer Lodge. (Construction of words. That wherever in tliis constitution the word "may" occui's the same shall be construed to be diiecldry. and wherever the word "shall" occurs thp same shall be considered to be mandatory. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention? Mr. Bickfoi'd of Missoula: I move the report of the committee be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Missoula Mr. Bickford' and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: Unfinished business is now in order. The con\"pnfion had under consideration at its adjournm(>nt. a substitute for Sections 2 and 1 by Mr. Kanouse of Meagher to which the gentleman from Silver Bow offered an amendment. Mr. W'arren of Silver Bow: I move (hat the consideration of the substitute be indefinitely postponed. Th(^ President: Thi' Chair desires to state to the gentleman that while he entertained a motion to indefinitely jiostpone an amendment yesterday inadvertently that it is not strictly in accordance with the rules, lor the reason that the same object is attiiined by a \'Ote upon the qnestiim, and the only object of indefinitely postponing is to take the matter entirely from before the session, and as there is nothing in the amendment that is cnnstrued to bp of that character, the rulp does not apply. Mr. Calla^^ay of Madison: l''or' two il:ivs this cdinpnlion wrestled with the question of the locatifin of the temporai'v capital — (intei'rupted.) 'I'lip President: Will the gentleman allow the Chair to state the question before the conxention? There is an amendment offered to this substitute by the gentleman Irom Silver Bow. It is the desire to have that amendment considered. It was moxcd nnd seconded that the amend- ment be adopted. It contained a proviso of thr' substitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher iMr Kanouse containing a proviso thai the temporary capital of Montana should be localpd at .\naconda. Mr. ^^"arre^ of Silver Bow: I move the adojition of the substitute. Tlie President: The gentleman probabh means the amendment. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from SihcT' Itow, and the gentleman from Madison has the floor. Mr. W'arren of Silver Bow: T ask for Ihe presciil to withdraw tip' aniendmenl. The PresidenI : Thi' gendemari wil liili'aw s tlie amendnipnl. and the (piestioti is upon the substitute, .Mr. .1. R. Toole of Deer I^odgc: II' the ainendmi'iil is wilhdi'awii, Mi-. President, T move the pre\ious (piestion on the sulistitulc. Tlie President: The f;entleman from Madison has llie floor. Thp motion is not in order at iiresent. Mr. Callaway of Madison: Mr. Presidi'id. I \ivi: Ihe indulgence of the coinention to make the motion that I will make lipforp t lakp my siMt. For two days we ha\f wrestled with this question ;ind wiltiout result. All has been in vain. I think it is well understood by (he jjendenien of this convention what is my position upon this proposition, t say to you CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 ' 827 now, Mr. President, and gentlemen, that if the capital remains at Helena I will be satisfied. ;Applause'i And more than that I will take the stump in support of the adoption of (he constitution. It would, however, per- haps be modest on I he part of Helena to be generous to the rest of the Territory. Personally, 1 prefer another place than Helena, yet about that matter I do not care. Madison County has been referred to and the question of dragging the capital from Virginia City to Helena has been broached. Mr. President, we have no ranklings in our breast. Madison County has no feeling of pique about that matter, but I desire to say on this proposition as on every other one, a free fight — a free ballot and a fair count. I think that perhaps we cannot today determine this matter. We have some matters before this convention that I believe if my motion prevails we can adopt this constitution and by Sunday have it before Ihe Committee of Phraseology- and Revision. I think it will save that much time. Therefore, Mr. President. I mo\e you that this matter be postponed until Monday afternoon, and with this assurance that while I say to these gentlemen that I will be satisfied with the action in the event the capital remains here, but I shall as long as there is hope for any other place, vote against Helena. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the further considera- tion of the entire subject affecting the capital be postponed until Monday afternoon. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow called for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Browne. Buford, BuUard, Burns. A. F.: Burns. .\. J.; Burns, Edward: Callaway, Cardwell, Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad. Cooper. Craven, Gillette, Goddard. Hammond. Hershfield, Hickman. Hob- son. .Joy. .Joyes. Kanouse. Loud. Luce. Maginnis. Mayger, McAdow, Middle- ton, Muth, Myers. Parberry. Rotwitt, Toole, Jos. K.; Watson — 36. Nays: Bickford. Brazleton. Breen, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Fields, Gaylord, Graves, Hartman, Haskell, Hatch, Hogan, Kennedy, Kohrs, Mar- rion. Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek. Robinson. Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. R.; Warren. Whitehill. Winston, Witter, Mr. Presi- dent^30. Absent: Burleigh and Webster — 2. Paired: Aiken & Gibson. Dyer & Knippenberg. Eaton & Knowles— 6. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion of the gentle- man from Madison (Mr. Callaway) adopted. Mr. Marrion of Missoula: I move that we now adjourn vintil Monday at four o'clock. The President: The motion is not in order. If the gentleman desires to fix Monday at four o'clock the time at which to adjourn, that motion will be in order. Mr. Marrion of Missoula: Then I move that when we adjourn we adjourn until Monday at four o'clock. The motion was seconded. The President: The question before the convention is that when the convention adjourn it adjoui'n until Monday at foiu' o'clock. The Chair put the said question on the motion of the gentleman from Missoula I.Mr. Marrion and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr.' .Marrion of Missoula: I desire to be excused until Monday at four o'clock. The President: If there be no tijijection the gentleman will be excused until Monday at four o'clock. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: If the convention will indulge me I would like til make a motion and that is that this convention tender a vote of thanks to Senators Stewart. Reagan and Plumb and to Major Powell for their very intei-esting and instrucli\e addresses. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Callaway of iMadison: 1 move to amend by asking the President of this convention in person to tender the thanks of the convention. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I accept the amendment. The President: The amendment is accepted. 828 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Tho Chair put (he fiuestioii on thn inntioii of the goiilh'inan frdui Gallatin (Mi'. Luco and a vote bein;:- taken the same was declared cairied. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I move that the conventinii now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider Proposition on Puhlie Lands, I believe No. 34. .Mr. BuUard of Jefferson: I would like to be excused until Mnnday. The President: The gentleman will be excused. The question now before the convention is that the convention do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for consideration of Proposition No. 3'i. Mr. Joy of Park: Before the motion is put I would like to he excused until. Monday four o'clock. The [^resident: The gentleman will be excused imtil .Monday at four o'clock. Mr. Durfee of Deer Lodge: 1 wmild ask tn be excused until the same hour. .Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: Mr. President. I would alsn ask to be excused until the same time. The President: If there be no ob.jection these gentlemen will be excused. The question now before the convention is. that the convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Article on Public Lands. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: Would it not be in order to suspend the rules and consider this in convention? The President: It could be done by unanimous vote and suspension of the rules. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I believe, Mr. President, that if this proposition could be considered in convention it would save considerable time. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I would move that the rules be suspended and this proposition be considered in the convention. Ilie nidtion was seconded. .Ml'. -Marshall of Missoula: T will withdraw my motion. The President: The gentleman withdraws his motion. The question now is that the rules be suspended and that the convention proceed to consider Proposition No. 3'4 and associate with it Propositions No. 23 and ■35. The adoption of the motion requires a two-thirds vote. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentli'man from Beaverhead (Mr. Witter and a vote being talieii, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Proposition No. 23 as follows: Section 1. None of the lands granted by Congress to the State of Montana, for the support of common schools, for the establishment and maintenance of a School of Mines, State Normal Schools, .\gricultural Colleges, a State Reform School, and a Deaf and Dumb Asylum shall be sold, granted or disposed of in any manner: but the same may be leased under such regulations as the Legislative Assembly may provide by law. not inconsistent with the laws of Congress in force at the time the same may be leasr'd. Si>c- tion 2. The moneys, profits and proceeds arising from the public lands shall be used and devoted exclusively for educational purposes, and it shall be the duty of the Legislative Assembly to enforce this provision by approjjriate legislation. ARTICLE Kxenijitions. Sectinn t. 'the l.e^islatixe AssemliK' shall pnixide liber;d exeinplinn laws. .Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: 1 mnve, sii'. that Sectidn I .-is read liv lln* Clerk be stricken out and Sectinn I nf Prii|Hisil imi Nu. X) lie sulisliluli'd in lieu thereof. The motion was seconfled. The Chair staled the molicin. 'I'lie (:lerk read Pi'npfjsil mn Nd. :i.j Icir the iiirnniKil inn nl llie enn\en- linn as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 829 ARTICLE Public Lands. Sertion I. AH tln^ public lands of the State are held in trust for all the people: and nono of such land nor any estate or interest therein, shall ever be disposed llifreof except in pursuance of general laws pro- viding for such disposition, nor unless the full market value of the estate or interest disposed of. to be ascertained in such manner as may be provided by law. be paid or safely secured to the State: nor shall" any lands which the State holds by grant from the United States ' in any case in which the manner of disposal and minimum price are so prescribed) be disposed of, except in the manner and for at least the price prescribed in the grant thereof, without the consent of the United States. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Meagher 'Mr. Kanouse and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I move that Proposition No. 34 be added to Proposition No. 35 as just adopted, as subsequent sections, commencing with Section 2. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The Clerk read Proposition No. 34 for the information of ;he ci>nvi'n- tion. as follows: ARTICLE. Public Lands. Section I. The lands gi-antcd to Montana by the act of Congress, ap- proved February 22. 1889. enlilbvl '■Act to provide for the division of Da- kota into two States and tn enable the people of North Dakota. South Dakota. Montana and \\'asliiiigfon. to form consliluf ions and state go\ - ernments and to be admitted into the Union on an (>qual footing with the original states and to make donalions of public lands to such States for the support of common schools or which may hereafter be granted for that purpose, shall be classified by the Board of Land Commissioners as follows: First, lands which are valuable only for grazing purposes: second, those which are principally valuable for the timber that is on them; third, agricultural lands: fourth, lands within the corporate limits of any incorporated town or city or within a mile of such limits, and which are worth more than Fifty Dollars .SiO per acre. Section 2. The lands of the first of said classes shall not be sold, but shall be leased, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law. The lands of the secmM class may he sold or the timber thei-pim may be solil. under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed l)y law. The agricultural lands may l)e either sold or leased, under such rules and regulations as may be |)rescribed by law. The lanils of the fourth class shall be sold in lots of not more than five acres each, and not more than one-half of anv one tract of such lands shall be sold pi-iorto the year 1895. Section 3. None of the lands granted for common schools shall lie sold for less than fen dollars 'SlO.fiO per acre, and no lease of such lands shall be for a longer term than five (5"' years, unless the Congress shall amend the Act referred to in Section 1 of this Article so as to per- mit longer leases. Section 4. All other public lands may be disposed of in such manner as may be prescribed by law. Tlie President: The question is upon the adoption of the motion to attach Proposition No. 34 to Proposition No. 35 and make it a part thereof. -Mr. Eaton of Park: I desire to call attention to the fact that my understanding is the rules were suspended so that Proposition No. 23 should be considered by the convention direct, and we seeem to be also considering and adopting Proposition No. 35 without ever going into Committee of the Whole, and I suggest that a like resolution be passed governing this. The President: The Chair embraced those two propositions in the motion. The Chair put the question on Proposition No. 23 and the asso- ciate propositions. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I wish to call the attention of the con- vention to the fact that the first portion of Section 1 of Proposition No. 34 is inchided in Proposition No. 35. which has already been adopted as 830 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES a substit.ulc for the first, sectimi of Proijusitioii No. 23 — in ntlipr words all that part of Section 1 wtiirh recites the granting ol' lands by the gov- ernment to the slates is recited in l^roposition No. 35. so that we may with propriety strike out all of tliaj part of Section No. 1 of Proposition No. 34 to and include the word "purpose" in line si.xth thereof; in other words this part may be stricken out Section 1 to "lands gi'anted to Mon- tana by tiie act of Congress pi'ovided February 22. 1889" entitli'd "An Act to provide for the division of Dakota into two stales to enable the peo- ple of North Dakota. South Dakota, Montana and Washington to form constitutions and state governments and to be admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original states, and to make donations of public; lands to such states for the support of common schools or which may hereafter be granted for thai purpose." So much of said section, Mr. President, may be stricken out, and in lieu thereof, just add the words "said lands" and number it Section 2 so that it shall read "said lands shall be classified by the Board of Land Commissioners as follows: Then that would make Section 2 of Proposition No. 23, and would jjrovide the man- ner in which the lands would be disposed of. I think the gentleman from Missoula will agree with me that this is the pro[)er thing to do. As a substitute I now move you that all of Proposition No. 3i up to and including the word "purpose" in the sixth line thereof be stricken out. and that the words "Section 2" and the words "said lands" be added jusi before the words "shall be classified." The inotion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I suppose that we are acting under the rules of the convention and cannot go back to Section 1 as already adopted. The President: That coidd not be reached except by reconsideration. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: This is the difficulty of not going into Com- mittee of the Whole. I want to call attention to one thing here in this Article 35 (reading: "All the public lands of (he state are held in trust for all the people." I snpiiose that llie ilcfinifion of public lands may cover all those that are enumerated here in seelion 1 of Ihe propo- sition offered by Ihe gentleman from Missoula 'Mr. Marshall , but I think that in Section 1 that Ihey should be held in trust for the iieople for the res|)ective purposes for which they were granted. That strikes me to be the proper proposition lo be in there, so that we will have some definition of what public lands are. Those lands that have been gianted t)y the Enabling Act of Congress, I suppose, are intended here to mean the public lands of the stale, but it seems to me this would be a belter definition of them, and the trust for which they are held should be better defined, for the several pur|io>es for which Ihi^y were granted by the act of Congress. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i'^ (Clarke: 1 think that is correct. If my mem- ory serves me. Mr. Rickards coxei'ed that in the Article on Education. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: II llial be so then Ibis amendment might not be offered. Mr. Bickford of Missoida: While we are upon this pi'oposition X will state for th(\ information of the gentleman that Ibis section was drawn wilh particular i-eference lo the report of the Committee on Education, and that in all probability llie -fanl will be found lo be covered by Ihe I'eport and that the \ises ari' not only defined by the act donating the lands lo the stale, to which \m' may refer, if in anyoni' a doubt arises, hut the lands can oidy be applied to that [larticular pm'jiosi' to which lbe\ wci'c dedicated, under any circumstance. Tile President: Tbi' question now is upon Hie adoption id' the amend- iiirnl uffei'ed by ilir ^eidleinan fcoiii Missoula. .Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I nio\e In amend the motion. The Pi'esidenI : TIk^ motion would not be in order. The amendment is an amendment to an aniendment auil another iimi'ndmenl at present woultl not be in order. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I will siinpl.v suggest, sir. then the pro(iriely of modifying that motion so that for the purpose of considt>ralion that poi'lion of Se(dion 1 of Proposition 3'i after tlie word "purpose" in line six should be added lo and become a part of Pi-oiiosition No. .35 by in- serting after Ihe woi-iis "United Stall's" the words "said lands." Mr. Hickronl of Missoula: I accept Ihe suggestion of Hie gentleman. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 831 Mr. Hickards of Silver Bow: I move that we resolve ourselves into Coniiniltee of the Whole for the considerafion of these three propositions. The nwtion was seconded. The President: The rules have been suspended and the convention resolved to proceed to the consideration of these articles, and of course if you are resolved upon that I piesume the gentleman's motion Will be in order. The Chair will put the motion. Mr. (ioddard of Yellowstone: I rise to a point of order. I do not believe this motion is in nrder unless the convention reconsider the vote. The President: It would not be except by unanimous consent or re- consideration. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: T do not wish to infrinffe upon the rules, but I wish to state that I confess to this convention that I think that there are parliamentary difficulties in the way of intelligently considering these three propositions in convention. I believe that time could be saved and more intelligeni action taken if we resolve ourselves into Committee of the ^^'hole. "I confess to you, Mr. President, and gentlemen, that I cannot keep track of tlie matter in convention as we are going. That is my rea- son for making the motion. The President: There is a parliamentary rule tliat a molion to sus- pend the rules cannot be reconsidered. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I withdraw my motion then. The President: The cjuestion now before the convention is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Missoula, which is further amended by consent to attach Section I of Proposition No. ,3.i and make it a part of Section I of Proposition No. 35, and then add the remaining sections of Proposition No. 34 to Proposition No. 35. That includes the whole matter. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I would like to ask a question. We have stricken out. I belie^■e, all down to the word "purpose." Now. sir. as we attach this to Section I of Proposition No. 35. will the remaining portion of Section 1 of Proposition No. 34 be susceptible to amendment aftei'- wards? The President: Yes, sir: any portion of the whole matte!- will be sub- ject to amendment. The Chair put the question on the motion of flie gentli-man from Missoula, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Reek of Deer Lodge: T would like fo ask if Sections 2, 3 and 4 of Proposition No. 34 are added to Proposition No. 35? Tne President: Yes, sir. Mr. Reek of Deer Lodge: T move then that Section No. 3 be stiickiMi out. Section 3 is included in the Enabling .Vet as I understand. '"'he motion was seconded. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: T move to amend Section I. The President: The motion to strike out Section No. 3 will take prece- dence of that motion. Mr. Marshall of !\fissouIa: Upon the proposition to strike out Section 3. it is true it is a repetition of the act of Congress. I believe — "None of the lands granted for common schools shall be .sold for less than fen dollars an acre." That is what the act of Congress says, and I suppose it is proper for us to adopt it in our Constitution in accordance with the Enabling Act. I s\ippose the act of Congress wiould bind us whether we put it in ovu" constitution oi- not, but I see no impropi'iety in puflina- in this constitution what the act requires this state to do. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: T would ask of the gentleman if the latter part of Proposition No. 35 does not cover the groimd mentioned in Section 3 of Proposition No. 34? Tt says on line five "Nor shall any lands which the state holds by grant from the United States fin any case in which the manner of disposition and minimum price are so prescribed^ be dis- posed of. except in the manner and for at least the price prescribed in the grant thereof, without the consent of the United States. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: That is so. It might as well be stricken out. The Chair put the question on the motion to strike out Section 3 of Proposition 3'i. and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: What has been done with Proposition No. 23? Has all of it been stricken out? The President: No. sir; only the first part. 832 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move that Proposition No. 23 be stricken out. The motion was secondeil. The President; It is ni()\ed and seconded that the remaining Section 2. and also the article in regard to exemptions of Proposition .\i>. 23 be stricken out. The Chair put lln' (lueslinn on the motion of llic pentlenian from Silver Bow (Mr. Rickards . and a vote being taken, tiie same was di'clan'd carried. The President: Proposjliou .No. 23 is now disposi'd id' and strickrn from the file. Mr. Luce of Gallatin sent up an amendment. The President: The genlli'man from Gallatin (Mr. Luce offers an amendment to Proposition No. 35. which will now be read. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out all of line one of Section 1 of Proposition No. 35 up to and including the word "people," and insert the following: "All lands oi the state that have been or that may here- after be granted to the state by Congress, and all lands aci|uireri by gift or grant or devise from any person or corporation shall b(> public lands of the state, and shall forever be held in trust for the people foi' the respective purposes for wliicli tlii'v have been or may be gi'anted, donateil or devised. .Mr. Stapleton of Silver How: I beg to be excused until Monday. The President: If there be no objection the gentleman will be excused. The gentleman from Silxer How Mr. Sargent i desires leave of aJjsenco until Monday at four o'ldock. If there be no ob.jection leave of absence will be granted. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: I move (he Milojition nf llie ami'ndment o|' the gentleman from Gallatin. The motion was secoiided. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: In examining Propo.sitimi No. 17. Mr, Presidi'nt. I do not find that any lands have be(>n d(d'ined as public lands. Section 2 pi'ovides as follows: "The jjuldic school fund of the slate shall consist of the iiroceeds of such lands as have been herelid'ore granted or may here- after be granted to the stat(> liy the genei'al goM'rnment, known as school lands." etc. That is the article providing what shall be public sciiixd funds of the state. There has been no definition of public lands in Ibis state that I know of. and I think it will lie very proper and \er\ wi-^i' and cautious measure to define what are the public lands. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I would say that Proposition No. 35. as it now stands, covers all the lands that can lie in any way acquired by the state. The general term used in the first part of Section i of Pro|)osi- tion No. 35 is general enough to incdude all jiublic lands. If ever the courts are called npon to determine what are the public lanils, and what class they may belong to, they have the United States law making the donation in which to refer in order to determine that question, and for us to put into the sect-ion that construction of the law will be useless. The courts have already done that. The courts have in many cases saiil what public lands are. The use to whi(di these public lands ari^ to be I)ut is defined by the act of (jongress itself, and this fii'st section or idause in Section 1 of Proposition No. 1^5 has all Ihat is nec(>ssary for us lo say in order that the court or that the peopl(>, for that matter, may know what is meant, ft says "All public lands of the state are held in trust for all the peo|)le, and none of such land noi' any estate or interest tlierein shall ever be disposed of except in pursuance of general laws ijrovided I'or such disposition, nor unless the full mai'kel value of the (>state or interest disposed of to be ascertain<>d in sucii manner as may be proviijed by law. be paid or safely secui'ed lo tli<' stat(\" Now, that covers tlie whole |)ro|iosition. The legislal\ue nndi'r thai may prescrdbe a particular melbo(l of disposition of tlieni — may prescribe the offii'ers who shall have the jjowei' of disposing of Ihem; liut under the resti'iclions of Congress lliey may be disposed of in no othiT mamiei- than Ihat presci-ibed by law (d' the I'niled Stales. I believe in |ea\iiig it lo the legislature lo pre- scribe the will of the peo|de in relation to lliese public lands. Mr.. Luce of (iailalin: I am not aide now lo r(d'(>r to a decision Ihat held Ihat after the title once passed into a slate the control of Ihe general gov- ernment over that Mile is li^sl. :nd ' • ' ''i" k '■'"' ' ■ to Ihe mnnificeiil graid, of the Congress of the I'niteil Slates to Ihe Ti>r- CONSTITUTIONAL i.ONVENTIOX 1889 833 ritory of Montana for the several purposes, that that grant shoulj be recognized and a provision made lieie to the effi-et that it shall he held in trust for the people of the several trusts for which it was granted. I am not particular about defining what are public lands, but there may be some question as to the question hereafter; for instance. I find in this Article No. 17 on Education that they provide for lands that may be acquired by gift, grant or il<'vise. Niiw. whether tlu'se lands will be pub- lic lands or not might- be a question, and I think that all lands granted to the State of Montana should be deemed and held to be public lands, and I think further that those several classes of lands — the different grants — should be held in trust for the people for the respective purpose for which they were granted, so that no legislature may ever take it in its power, or think it has the power to dispose of school lands for the purpose of a university, or university lands for the purpose of a School of Mines, or the lands that are granted for the School of Mines, for the purpose of an Agricultural College. That is my object in amending this section, and it may be as my friend has said that this proposition covers all that I have recited, and I am willing that he may amend it by saying that all the public lands are held in trust by the people for the several purposes for which they have been or may be hereafter granted, donated or devised, if it suits the gentleman better. I am not particular about the lan- guage. The Congress may define that all these lands that are given to the slate are public lands, but there has been no such difinilion yet. and I think it is very proper for this convention to define it in some manner. The legislature may undertake, as I say. to dispose of these lands in- differently, with llie understanding or the idea that after the people have once completely passed that then the general government can no further control, but so long as the title remains with this condition which the courts may construe to be a condition subsequent, and not a condition precedent, prevails. I say that whenever the title gets in that condition the United States, in my opinion, cannot control it within the state, and if the legislature should assume the authority to sell the public school lands of this state and divert that money for some other purpose, why I do not understand how the laws of the United States can conflict or interfere, how the officers authorized to dispose of them as lands could be enjoined by reason of this condition that has been imposed upon the title of these lands by the government of the United Stales. I think that that much respect should be paid to this granting clause that has given us these lands, that we pledge ourselves never to divert one dollar from the purposes for which they were granted severally. Mr. Middletpn of Custer called for the reading of the amendment. The Clerk read same for the information of the gentleman. Mr. Middleton of Custer: If I understand the purport of the amend ment aright, the effect of it would be to prohibit forever the sale of these lands. If they are held in trust for the people forever the provisions here in I hi' remainder of the section certainly could not be done: it would either be inconsistent with the rest of the section or else it would be a perpetual bar to the sale of a single acre of these public lands. It seems to me that the section as it stands covers the matter sufficiently, and this convention does not want to adopt any such provision or an amendment embodying such a jirovision as that these lands shall be held in trust forever. Mr. Luci' of Gallatin: The word '"forever" adds nothing to this Sec- tion 1 of Article 35. It can be stricken out. Mr. Her.shfield of Lewis & Clarke: I would like to ask the gentleman the effect of the word "hereafter" upon lands which would subsequently be granted to the State of Montana for irrigating purposes. Supposing that we would want to dispose of that land for immediate cash: according to the wording of ynur amendment, "hereafter," we cannot dispose of it in that wa^^ Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I move that the word "forever" be stricken out. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: "The lands granted to us here- after." Supposing we obtain a grant of land for irrigating purposes, which we hope to sometime or other, then these lands would come under the same restrictions as the lands which have already been granted to the state. 834 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES Mr. Luce nf Ciallatin: (»iily so far as holding these lamis for the pur- poses for which they are granted. If they are granted for the purposes of irrigation you wouhl not |je allowed to tal\e those lands after they are granted and sell them and appropriate the money from that sale for some other purpose. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: You would have to disposn of thi'ni at (he time limited here. Mr. Hershficld of Lewis i*^: Clarke: My impression is that that word does not cut much figure one way or the other, and it may lead us into, difficulty. Mr. Luce of Ciallatin: The gentleman from Meagher (Mr. Kanouse. says he has an amendment which will cover it all. I will accept it. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: For the benefit of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke I would say,, there is an express provision — "Nor shall any lands which the state holds by grant of the United States, in any case in which the manner of disposition and minimum price are .so pre- scribed, be disposed of, except in the manner and for at least the price prescribed in the grant thereof, without the consent of the United States." Unless the United States grant this land for irrigating purposes — unless there is a manner of disposition jn'cscribed in the grant, there is nothing to prevent it froiu doing so. .Mr. Rickards of Siher Bow. All that I desired to do was to call the attention of the convention to the fact that in Proposition No. 17, Article on Education, as reported from the Com- mittee on Education, the school lands are already wfll guarded in these words: "The funds of the State University and of the several state in- stitutions of learning, from whati'ver source accruing, shall forever re- main inviolate and sacreil to the |un-pose for which they were dedicated." The President: The gentleman from Meagher (Mr. Kanouse) offers an amendment which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Add after the words "In trust for the people" the words "To be disposed of as hereinafter provided." so as to make it read as follows: "And all lands acquired by gift or grant or devise from any person or corporation shall be public lands of the stale, and shall be held in trust for the people, to be disposed of as herein- after provided. ' Mr. Luce of (Gallatin: I will accept the amendment. The President: The gentleman accepts the amendment. The ques- tion is now upon the axloption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from (iailatin as amended by the gentleman from Missoula 'Mr. Kanouse . Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I desire the indulgonce of the convention for one moment, and to call the attention of the gentleman fo the fact that his amendment is covered not only by Section I, but it is also covered by the report of the Committee on Education: in other words, we are get- ting ourselves into the same condition with Proposition No. 35 we did with the report of the ,T\idiciary Committee; we are getting in surplusage: we are getting in conflicting provisions, and tliat Section 1 of Proposition No. 35 covers everything that is attempted to be coxered hy the various amendments offered here,, when it is taken in connection with Proposi- tion No. 17 on Education. There is nothing that can escape, nor can there be any misapplication of the funds derived from the sale of the public lands. Section 12 covers a portion of the groiuid. the very last section. Section 1 of Proposition No. 35 provides 'here the gentleman read Section 1. Projiosition No. 35". As soon as the title is acquireil by the slate they become i)ublic lands, and (hey may be ilesignated in all pro- ceedings as the public lands. They are a part of the donation of the United States which is given to the State of Montana to be applied to a particular use or to a particular purpose. That piu-pose is defin(> the particular purpose to which the lands selected shall be apidii'd: their refiort will set ajiai't tliose lands to (hat piirticnlai' use, and undi'i' the power just granted (hem hy law they can act and set apart (ln^ land only 1(1 (lie use desi^;n;ded b\ (lie act of I '.(iiiL'cess. Any ac( of (Indrs se((ing CONSTITUTlDNAf. CDNVEXTION 1889 835 out any other land to any othi'r purpo.^e than that laid down in the act of Congress would be simply a nullity. Then. I say thai Proposition No. 35 covers the ground as to the duly of the Board of Land Commissioners, as it is called, as pro\ided in Section i. and that the people have a right to an absoluli' safeguard that these funds will remain inviolate^ — that the proceeds of this land will remain the property of the people: that it cannot he disposed of except in the manner pro\ided by law. Therefore, I say that the amendment is useless. If the proposition should go to the Committee on Adjustment and I'hraseolngj-. it will become necessary for them to strike out this, because they will find, on investigation, if not an absolute conflict, at least it is surplusage and something that should be stricken out. The provision relative to the disposal of the land is left to the legislature — the manner of disposing of the land is left to the leg- islature, except that in the proposition Xn. 34 the lands are classified into three or four separate classes. In all states where public lands are en- tered for school purposes, the laws enacti'd by the legislature have been conformed to the donations made by the Congress of the United States. I say that the ground is covered already by the section. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I regret that I am compelled to disagree with my learned friend from Missoula on the proposition. If I under- stood the amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin, it is that the several grants given hy the United States to the state of Montana shall he kept separate — their funds shall be kept separate: they shall be used foi- no other purpose: and the object of that amendment is so to direct and to ""mandate" the legislature, if we may use the expression, that those funds shall be kept separate. That is carrying out the inten- tion of the act of Congress. Now, we have a certain grant for the State University, a grant for the common schools, a grant for the Deaf and Dumb Asylum, and one for public buildings, and so on: and I do say that we will leave this thing in an ambiguous condition if we do not pass that amendment or something like it. It will leave it in such a condition if this does pass that these officers he speaks of cannot divert these funds: they cannot misappropriate them: they cannot mix them together. Each fund belongs separately to itself. .Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I am out of order, but I hupe the convention will indulge me. Now. this Proposition No. 17 relates exclusively to lands granted for educational purposes, or that may hereafter be granted for educational purposes. It has nothing to do with the grant of the benefi- ciary, nor has it anything to do with the grant of lands for the benefit of the stale in the erection nf public buildings, noi- has it anything to do with any lands that may hereafter be granted for another purpose. I think my amendment covers it all. Suppose, as was intimated by the Senator today in his argument — perhaps Professor Powell it was — that there would be lands granted for the purpose of irrigation; it never would be covered by this proposition 17 on Education, for they confine their proposition entirely to lands granted to educational purposes, and there is no declaration in that from first to last that these are public lands, or any definition of public lands. I once knew a very distinguished gentleman to say that the land upon which the Interior Department in Washington is situated stands opi'n within the meaning of the law. He was the first and only man that I ever heard make the statement, because it has been decided by different decisions of the Supreme Court of the United States that those are only public lands subject to disposition; but these are all lands held by the state. Now, I say that this includes not only the lands thai have been donated for school purposes, the lands that may hereafter be donated for school purposes, or for any other purposes — for the purpose of constructing public buildings: or if any rich gentleman dies and donates a hundred thousand acres of land to the state, that will cover it and it will keep that donation separate from all others. I say that there is danger of the legislature at some time taking the bit into its own mouth and rushing on and saying that it has the power to fuse these funds. Proposition No. 17. Section 12. as referred to by the gentleman from Missoula reads: "The funds of the State Uni- versity and of all the other state institutions of learning, from whatever source accruing, shall forever remain inviolate." etc. Now. I want all other funds and all other donations for all other purposes kept as sep arate and distinct as provided for in this, and then T want a definition of what are public lands, so that there can be no confusion hy any judge or anv court or anv lawTer. and if we sav that all lands granted to the aid PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES state or donati'd tu llii' state nr devised to the state are public lands, it covers all tlie lands (it tlie slate tliat are ever acquired I'oi' any purpose; and tliat tlie funds arising from them — that is in the language of the amendment, hut it means that — all the funds arising from these lands shall be devoted to the purposes for which they were respectively granted or tlevised or donated, for the specific use of which they were granted. I do think thai that is a \ery needful provision to go into this consti tution, and is not superfluous to anxtliing that has been adopleri and |iut into this constitution so far. 'L'h(^ Chair put the question on the adoption of the amrndnienl id'fen'd by the gentleman from Gallatin (Mi'. Luce), and a division being calleil for, the same was declared carried by a vote of 22 in the affirmalixe to 7 in the negative. The President: Tlie gentleman from Meagher (Mr Kanouse has an amendment. 'I'hi' gentleman offers an amendment to Section t by adding thereto "Provided that any of said lands may be reclassified whenever by reason of increased facilities for irrigation or otherwise they shall be eligible to different classification. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move the adoption of the amendnn'nl. The motion was seconded. Till' ('.hair slated the motion. Mr. Kanouse of .Meagher: I think it might be well lo insei't there aftei- the word "reclassify" the words "By said Board," so as to show what power shall act. It suggests itself to my mind that after this Board of Land Commissioners has once classified these lands, that their powers might not be sufficient to enable them to reclassify any lamls which afterwards by reason of canals or reservoirs which were detei'min(>d on the first classification, as possibly grazing lands, that aftei'wards prob- ably would be agricultural lands of increased vakie. Tliat is the object of the amendment. The Chair put the qiiestion on the motion of the genlleman from Meagher, and a vot(> being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Hickman of Madison sent up an amendment. The President: The genlleman from Madison (Mr. Hickmnn'i offers to amend Section 2. on line one, by striking out the word "shall" and inserting in lieu thereof the word "may": also strike out of same line the words "but shall be" and insert in lieu thereof the word "or." The motion was seconded. Mr. Hickman of Madison: That would make it "arid lands of I he sec- ond class may be sold or leased under the rules and regulations," etc.. instead of reading as it does now. the lands of the first and second class shall not be sold, but shall be "leased." Now, the difficulty would be in leasing arid lands or grazing lands. Sometimes they may lie contiguous to a man"s ranch., and he may want to buy them, while pei'haps it wouM be useless to anyone else, and he would not lease them. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I call the attention of the gentleman to the first class which are only valuable foi' grazing ptu'poses. Mr. Luce of (Jallatin: Ranch men or farmei's ha\e no such land either contiguous or near them that they would give a good price for. and T do not understand why they should not be sold under such cir- cumstances or why they should ever be withheld from sale. 1 should say that (here are grazing lands or in some cases timber lands that farmers would gi\'e a gooil di'al for, say twenty iicres lyiui; contiguous to them — either of timber or farming lands. The Chair put the question on tlii' amendmeni of lln' ;;enlleman from Madison, Mr. Hickman, and a \iile liemt; taken llie same was declared carried. The President: There is an aniemlmeni otfei-eil li\ I he L^cnllcnian from Missoula, .Mr. Ramsdell. — an amendment lo Section ". line fi\e. Ml'. Myers of Yellowstone: Mr, President, before you pass lo the second section I desii'e to (dfer an amendment to the first. The Presiclenl: Mr. Myei-s of Yellowstone offers an amendment to Section I. line nine. After the word "any" strike out the word "incor- porated", and all of said section after "limits" — in olher words strike out the words "and which are w(M'th more than fifty dollars per acie." Mr. Myers of Yellowstone; 1 mo\e (he ailoplioii of llial amendmeni. The motion was seconded. The Chair stati'd (he motion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 S37 Mr. MxiTs III' Vclinwsdiiio: The object I li;ive in offei-iiig (liat i?* lo take the sense nf (he e(in\eulion as to whether they desire to retani the lauils ailjacaiit to iiicorijorated cities only, or incorporated towns. It seems to me that I here ar(^ many growing little towiis that then^ may be a valuable piece ot land neai'by, that it \\()ukl be just as advisable In hold as any lying- adjacent to incorporated cities, and I also wish to take the sense of tlie con\eiilion as to whether they desire to sell lands thai, are worth less than fifty dollars i>er acre. If th(>y are going to retain any at all. I think they siiould just as well retain those that are less than thirty dollars an acre as those that are worth fifty dollars and over, hence I off(>r the ami-ndment and ho|)e it will prevail. The President: The Clerk will read the section as it would lie if amended. The Chair would suggest the difficulty of ascertaining the \alue of this land, whether it shoulii be more or less than $50. The Clerk read the section as amended by the proposed amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I very much doubted the propriety of author- izing the Legislature to in any way or manner sell those lands and still doubt it, but tlie committee having this matter under consideration, hav- ing examined the matter thoroughly and reported upon it, so far as my opinion was concerned I alNiwed it to go in favor of that committee. But I believe. Mr. President, that \ery little of this land will be sold in the next eight or ten years, and the little that will be sold will be within a few miles of the thriving and growing little communities .scattered all over this Stale. Those lands I believe we should reserve. I am in favor of the adoption of this amendment, but I would like to see it go a little further. The one mile limit is too near; it should be niaili' five fir six miles, because school lands within six miles of any growing little town in Montana or any city, or incoi-porated town, are valuable — are woi'th, if they are worth anything more than ten dollars an acre, and in the near future will be worth niori' than you can realize on ten dollai's an acre — than you can realize on the interest, on the proceeds of the land, whether it be ten dollars an acre or twenty dollars an acre, if you hold it in perpetuity and lease it. Lands far distant, at present say> / 200 miles from t<^^^^ls, may be sold, because it is a long way in the future \ until they will have a value exceeding ten dollars: but lands within a half dozen miles of a town have that \alue now, and that \alue would increase very fast; besides they have a leasing value, and a leasing value \ is more than yo>i can realize on the purchase money. So Ihat I am in favor of extending thai limit to six miles. Mr. Mvers of Yellowstone: If the j:enllen)an will make a mulion to that effect I win accept it. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I hope the gentleman will extend the limit to ten miles. In our \alley there are any number of acres worth fifty dollars, and even moi-e than that, within ten miles of our city. The President: How manv miles will the gentleman accept as a limit? Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: Six miles. The President: It will be so amended then to read within six miles. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis \- Clarke: I move to strike out six and insert three. I think six miles entirely too far off. because the character of it is not uniform. I think three miles from any incorporated town would be far enough. Mr. Conrail of Choteau: T second the motion of the gentleman from Lewis i*t Clarke lo amend by making if three miles. The Chair stated the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis ,\: Clarke .Mi-. Hershfield . Mr. Marshall of .Missoula: I want lo remind the gentli'man from Cascade and others that this proposition includi^s all the lands granted by Congress. Some of the land is granted for public buildings — the State capital. I suppose the money will be wanted to be used for that, and it cannot be raised by leasing. It certainly ought to be in the power of the Legislature to sell the lands granted for the building of the Slate capifol. it seems lo me, so as to I'aise the money lo he applied to the building, and it is probably so with regard to the institutions for the benefit of which lands are granted. There is no restriction upon those lands by Congi-ess as to the price. 'I'he restriction to ten dollars an acre, I believe, if I am not mistaken, in the Enabling Act, only applied to lands that are granted for common school purposes. Evidently the intention of Congress was that llie oilier lands might be sold for cash as it was 838 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES 11 Icil. and il wiailil iidl iiilrini lli;i| lliose lands should be sold a( all, I snii|)i)S('. 'J'lic liinitation as In pi'lce only apidios to lands ^'ranlPd for cmniniin school iiurposcs. and certainly lands (hat ai'c only within a few nnlcs of a town ouylit to he sold. I suppose: those frranted for puhlic lniildinKs on^'ht lo he sold for money -to he ap|>lied lo the purpose of linhlic huildiniis. Ml-. Myers nt Yellowstone: 1 wmild say that the lands that are tiianled for other [lurposes have not been selected yet: hence tliei-e will 1 danger of selecting lamls near these towns, except of towns that may he [jlolted and laid oul in I he future, and this will only apply to nni\ei'sity and school purposes. Ml'. Marshall (if .Missoula: .My cibjecl was In liiiiil the Legislature. -Now. some gentleman has lefl it entirely with (he Legislature witliout limit, and it is not probalile that lands that might he leased to a good ]iurpose and not sold for a good purpose, will he sold for a low price. School lands cannot be sold for less than len dollars an acre. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: In the Enaljling Act. Section 17, which stales the quantity of land and for what purpose it is donated, says: "All Ihe lands granted by this section shall be held, appropriated and disposed of exclusively for the purpose herein mentioned, in such man- nei as the Legislatures of the respective States may severally provide." As Judge Marshall says, I do not think that the minimum price at which the school lands shall be sold refers to Ihe lands donated for the purpose of -public buildings at all. The President: The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Hershfield, to make the distance three miles mstead of six. Ml'. Collins of Cascade: It .just occurred to me that the land men- tioned by the gentleman from .Missoula as lying near his town is the land w»: ought to try to protect. Now, this broad piece of land lying near Missoula can be divided into two thousand lots of one hundred feet square, or one hundred feet frontage by a liltle more Ihan one hundreil feet the other way. that is, at a quick calculation. Now. 1 believe Ihal reasonable rental from that land would amount to a great sum of money, and Ihat it would amount even now to fifty dollars, the amount of money that would be realized from Ihe sale of it. That is just one instance; anti the longer it remains tied up in the school fund, and the longer it remains Ihe property of the school fund, the more valuable it becomes. \\'hen the first lease of five, len, fifteen or twenty years ha? expired, the SI cond leasehold is more \aluable yet, probably double or treble or quadruple: and so on to the end of time: whereas if you sell that proiierty loony for .$50 — well say $100 an acre, or $.500 an acre, the interest on that money would amount to quite a sum, but an insignificant sum compared to the rental. .N'ow, this regulation holds good so far as all school lanils are concerned, but it holds good more particularly to school lands lyimr williin a reasonable distance of towns. So far as the land donated for pulilic buildings is concerned, if that cuts any figure in this case. T wouh^ be in favor of postponing Ihe sale of that land until such time as the convention thinks the public buildings should be built, and then selling it when we are ready to build. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I am in favor of selling off all thi' lands within three miles of the city limits. Now, this provides that they should be sold in lots of not more than five acres, and they shall not be leased for a longer period than five years. Now. we know lluil nobody will put up a good building on lands that are leased: so that if half is leased and good buildings put up, Ihat would make Ihe resi so much more valuable, \^■e will get more out of it in Ihal way. .\nd Ihen I would he in favor of line five of S(>ction 2, where il says il shall be sold in lots of not more than five — say alternate lots of mil more Ihan five so as to enhance the property. The President: The Chair would suggest that there might be some difficulty in determining the limits of a cily if it is not incorporaled. However, the amendment, now offered by Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke is the question upon whicb the con\ention is to ad. The motion is to slrike out six and insert in liini thoi'eof three. The Chair iiut the qui>stion on Ihe said motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke ("Mr. Hershfield) and a division being called for, the same was declai'ed carried by a vote of 15 in Ihe affirmative to 11 in the negative. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 839 The President: The question now is upon the ameuihin'iit ofl'i'reil by the gentleman from (iallatin, Mr. Luce. Mr. Bret'n of Jefffrson: There does not seem to be any interest taken in this matter any more, and therefore I move that we adjourn. The motion was seconded. .Mr. Collins of Cascade: Will the gentleman allow me to introduce a resolution sn that it can he leferred before the motion is carried"? Mr. Hartnian of Gallatin: T also ask the privilege of introducing a motion. The President: Thei-e are already two amendments to offer to Sec- tion -J when the convention reaches that section, one by the gentleman from Mis.soula. and one by the gentleman from Meagher. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: If it is in order I move that when we adjourn we adjourn until four P. M. on Monday. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman trinn Missoula .Mr. .Marshall and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. The President: The gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, desires to introiluc<' a resolution before the motion to adjourn is put. The Clerk will read the resolution. The Clerk read as follows: Resolved that the Chief Clerk be and he is liereby required to make out a payroll of the extra clerks and pages of this convention, which shall be duiy certified to by the President and Chief Clerk, and at the adjournment of this convention shall be filed in the office of the Secretary of the Territory. The Chief Clerk is hereby authorized and required in issue a certificate to each clerk and page, or his order, telling the service rendered and amount due. which said certificate shall be duly certified to by the President of the convention. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I mo\o that the resolution be referred to the Judiciary Committee. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cascade Mr. Collins and a vole being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The gentleman fi-om (iallatin, Mr. Hartnian. desires to offer the following resolution. The Clerk read as follows: Resolved that a committee of three be appointed by the President of this convention, whose duty is shall be to carefully examine the various propositions already adopted as parts of the constitution, and those which may hereafter become parts thereof. with a view to ascertain any inconsistencies or omission which may exist in the instrument, and that authority to remedy such inconsisten- cies and omissions, and wherever any ambiguity or imperfection exists in the language employed, or the intention of the convention seems incompletely expressed, the committee shall remedy such defects, and re|iort to the convention for its action. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I mo^e the adoption of that lesolution. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Ml'. Hartman of Gallatin: I certainly want to say that my only reason for offering that is this, that I do not believe the Committee on Revision and Phraseology- has the power to carry out all that the resolution con- templates. I do not mean to reflect upon the Committee on Revision and Phraseolog>- at all. but I do not believe that their powers would be suffi- cient to arrive at the end desired and contemplated by that resolution. I should also like to suggest if the resolution be adopted that the Chair- man of the Judiciary Committee be made Chairman of that committee. Mr. Rickards of Silvei- Bow: I ijresimie. Mr. President, that the mover of that committee has duly considered this, but the question suggest.s itself to my mind whelhei' there might not be some conflict of authority between that commiltee and the Committee on Revision and Phraseolog\- Mr. Warren of Silver How: As Chairman of the Commiltee on Revision and Phraseology. I hope the resolution will prevail. I think the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee is the man above all others that should pass upon this constitution. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I was going to move, Mr. President, that the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee be added to the Committee nn Revision and Phraseology. 8iO PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES \lr. Ilarliiiaii nl (lallaliii: 1 will aci-riil llial anicncJniont. with thi^ nnilcislaniliiit; llial, llii'ir aullmi'lly is iiii'i'casi'd In Ihc pxiciil as t'ontom- plated in the I'csdhitidii. The President: There is an amendmeni tor Uiat instead of a eom- mittee of three that a Chairman of the Connnillee on Judiciary be added to the Committee on Revision and Phraseology, giving power to thai connnittee to carry out the provisions incorporated in this resolution. Mr. Joy of l^ark: I would like to inquire of the KiMilleinan who introduced that resolution if il is intended Ihat this connnillee will com- plele its work befoi'e the convention adjourn. Mr. Hartman of Ciallatin; The intention is certainly thai they shall repoil before the convention adjourns. My idea was to gel il introduced now and to get the committee at work, so that they would not ha\e il all to do on the last day or two of the session. The President: 't'he gentleman from Missoula offers an amendment that the Chairman of the Judiciary Coinmitlee be added to thi> Committee on Revision and Phraseology, and that that committee be given the power to carry out the provisions incorporated in this resolution. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I W'Ould suggest that the motion lie that one or two or three or four more be added to that committee — say four more. I move that four more be added to the Oimmittee on Revision and Phrase- ology if it meets the views of the Chairman of that committee. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Cut if down to two. Mr. Collins id' Cascade: Well, cut it down to two. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I suggest that it had better be two or three, as one of the members is not here, Mr. Webster. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move you then that it be three. The President: The amendment is then that the Chair appoint three members of the convention. The question now before the convention is that the Chair add lliree members of the convention to the Committee on Revision and Phraseology, with provision to carry out the powers that are granted in this resolution. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: Before I vole upon the adoption of that resolution and the amendmeni, I would like to hear from the Chairman of this conuiiilli'e. There are three persons on this committee all of whom are here, I believe — there is only one absent, and I wotUd not like to vote for the adoption of the resolutimi of this character unless I knew' that all fiie members of this committee were in full accord with it, for it might appear as casting some reflection upon their ability. The President: The Chairman of the committee has assented to the proposition and recommends il. The Chair does not know that the other gentlemen are here. Mr. Middleton of Custer: It seems to me that il is unnecessary — entirely so — to add three more members to this committee. The com- ittee certainly are copetenl to do the work, and there is enough of them. My experience has been here that the larger the committee the more difficull it is to get them together. I know thai more than three-fourths of the meetings of the Judiciary Committee have been atleuiled by a bare quorum, and I am satisfied that this kind of work will have to be done by two or three. I do no| object to the resolution so far as endorsing the matters that it embodies to this Committee to 10 in the negative. The convention adjouiMieil until Salvu'dav, .\ugust lOlh. IS8it, at 10 A M, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 8il nilUTY-FIKSI »\V. Sa(iir(lii,\, \ii(|ii.st 10. 1SS9. Mornitiji Session. Tlic convent ion was calli'il to onli'i- bv the President at 10 A. .M. The Clerk called the roll. Leave ol absence was granted to the following members: Burns. Edward, until Monda>'. .\ugust 12th. "iraves. until Monday. August li'th. Heek. for the day: hulord. until Monday. August I2lh: Ilcrshlield. for the dav: Toole, .f. K.. for the day: Dixon. I'or the day. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. The President: The Chair has a communication purporting to come from some rjublic body. If the convention desires to hear the communi- cation the same will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Stuart, Montana: August 9lli. 1889. Pres- ident Constitutional Convention. What is the matter with Stuart for per- manent capital? Citizens gelling mad because no attention paid to them. Please read to the convention and oblige. 'Signed' Board of Trade. Mr. Callaway of Madison: Mr. President, four or five days ago I laid befire this convention a provision to be incorporated in the constitution. but to be voted on separately, and. if carried, to be incorporated as a part of the constitution. I think i* was referred |o tlu^ (Committee on Suffrage. It, was a proposition for woman's suffrage. T would like to know what is the matter with that committee. 1 ask that they be instructed by the cor.M'nlion to report, t would I'l'speclfnlly ask, Mr. President, that that conmiiltee reporl next Monday. The Presiderd: Will thi' Chairman ol' the Coinniill m SuTfrage gi\e the gentleman the information he requires? .Mi'. Rotwitt of Meaghei': Duiint: Ihi' cNciti'mrnt '<( the capital ques- tion the committee has not been ;il]le In Imlil a nierlni;^ hiil I heliexe we will be able to report today. . The President: The Chairman (d' the cinnmillee I'cpoi-ts that the conmiiltee will ])robably be able to report today. If uol they \v-ill w) doubt repoi't on Monday. The c now an amendment offered by the gentleman from Missoula. Mr. Ramsdell. to amend Section 2 on line five. ''Provided, however, thai not more than KiO acres of land, arid or otherwise, shall ever be sold to 'he same person, company or corpora- tion." Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: I mo\e thi' ailoptjon id' the amendment. The motion was seconded. 'I'he President: It is moved and seconiled that the aiiiendmcul he adopted, to insert after the word "law" on line five of Section 2 the words "Provided that not more than ItiO acres, arid or otherwise, shall ever he sold to the same person, company or corporation." Mr. Ramsdell of Missovda: I do nid believe that lliere need lie mucli said in support of this amendment, it seems to me that it will commend itself. It is a wise provision in this respect that not over 160 acres of land should ever be sold to the same company, or corporation. There mav be reasons for selling grazing or timber lands in larger bodies than that and it would not really affect the interests of the people so much, hut the policy of the general government has been in the last twenty or twenty-five years not to give to the same individual or company or allow them to acquire in any manner more than KiO acres. I believe it would be a good provision to incoi'porafe in the constitution. Mr. Luce of Oallatin: T am ojiposed to the amendment of the gentle- man from Missoula, and notwithstanding it has been the policy of the government for several years to put up no lands at public sale, but to dispose of fhem to actual settlers, having had a great deal of experience 8/i2 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES ill tlii'sc land iiiatti'i's. I havi^ been lirnily of tlw npiniDii that tlio land law (if piiblir sale and private entry was best lor the government and best I'nr the iieople, and I can point to States now where the lands have been disposed of— for instance the State of Ohio, one of the most populous anil wealthy States in the Union — the State of Indiana, the Stale of Illi- nois, and the State of Missouri — where the lands were sold. Now. so far as the public land system goes, if the lands go into the bands of private proprietors they are sold to persons who want them upon longr terms of cri'dit and so on. They are sure of tlieir titles then, and in the settlement svstrm there is always somebody jumping lands ami consequently the Land Department at \\'ashington is full of decisions and burdened down with perjury, i do not know thai that woulil act in this way, but I undei- took to say that the land would sell at as good a price and find buyers. If w" sell at all let us sell; but my view of this matter is that they never should have been sold at all; however, it seems to be left to th" legislature now to sclU and if we sell I think we should leave that matti'r to the legislature to meet the wants of the community in the future: and I am not at all afraid of large capitalists or wealthy men getting these lands and holding tbeiii. because there is no profit in them at all unless fhev can sell them: and if they are to be sold Ihey may as well be sold to them as to be parceled out in little lots of IGO acres. I am in favor of settling up Ibis countrv and getting all the lands of this future State into the hands of private proprietors, too. at the very earliest it is possible to do it. and I do sav that it would be better for Montana to do that, and the arid lands of the territorv should be surveyed at the earliest possible date, put up and sold, and subject to private entry al the minimum price. Thi-n vou get the title into hands of private proin-ielors: and the same system" would work well as regards the public lands of the state, if they are to be sold at all. There are some lands that must be sold, and when- ever they are sold lei us have a market and not limit the market lor the •land because vour sales to the government amount to nothing. Thev wouid be -sold' to those persons, and only one person could buy Kin acres If there is to be any ssle at all of these lands, and it is necessary to sell them, and thev ought to he sold. T say let ns have a market for them and not limit the market. I have never been accused of beiiii a friend of corporations or anything of that kind, but I do say that the system I bat limits the purchase cd' any commodity will work detrimen- tallv. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: The fact, sir, that our homeslead and pre- emptioii laws have remained on the statute books comparatively uii touched is an indication that the policy that is embodied in these act< has commended itself to the great body of the American people, and I undertake to show, sir. that the polii-y would be comprised in somethins after these, "That the public lands of this country in subdivisions .such as are recommended bv this amendment I hat has just been offered, in such tracts as were suitable for homes should be owned by people of Ihe country in fee simple ahsnlute. I am in favor, sir. of incorporating that ill the constitution. I believe in stating what the policy shall be in terms that cannot be misunderstood. T am in favnr of stating that tiiey shall be sold wherever it would be necessary they should be sold. 1 think, sir that the amendment that has been offered is a good one. but I be- lieve as I heard it read that it does not perhaps comprehend all it should. I think it is necessarv to still further amend it in line four of this pro- vision It seems to me it is a question of whether it is preferable to have these lands covered with homes, with all the improvements permanent, as they naturallv would be, that the homemaker gathers about him, or whether thev should simply be covered with shacks with such bare im- provements 'as are absolutely necessary during the short lime which a renter would naturallv occupy them. I am in favor of the amendment. 'I'lie Pri'sident: The gentleman from Meagbi-r offers an nmendiuent which IS germane to Ihe .subject, and if it is neci'ssary the Chair will ba\e it read. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I wmild idTer it as an ann'mlment tn lln" amendment. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section L' as follows: Strike oul lines four and five to and including the word "law" and insert "The agricultural lands shall be sold in lots not exceeding IliO acres, whenever Ibi' price as fixed by Section 3 herein can be nbtaiiied th(>refor: llinl whciifxi'i- any of Ihe' said lands canmil be sold for said jirii-e. and sn CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENllON 188i) 8 13 luiij.' as thiy shall so continue unsold, tlioy may hf li'asi'il in nianin'r as may bo providod by law. Tho Pri'sident: Tlie Cliair would suggest that Spction 3 is stricki-n out. There is a reference in this amendment to Section 3. Mr. .Marshall of Missoula: I think, Mr. President, if the reference be made to Section 1 it will have the same effect. Section 1 prescribes that they shall only be sold on such terms and at such minimum price as may be fixoil by Congrnss. .Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I suggest that the Ch'rk change it so that it will read Section I. Mr. Witter of Heaverhead called for the reading of the amendment of the gentleman from Missoula ,Mr. Ramsdell). i'he Clerk read as follows: Provided further that not more than UiO acres of agricultui-al land, arirl or othrwise. shall ever be sold to the same person, comriany or corporation. •The President: This amendment in no wise conflicts with the other amendment and might be attached to it. Mr. Parberry of .Meagher: In the report that has been adopted of the Committee on Irrigation, it seems to me that tliis has been provided for better than we can provide for it here. It allows the legislature to make such laws, rules and regulations in regard to selling or leasing this land as it may in its judgment deem fit and proper. Now, I have been opposed to the selling of the land: I think leasing it far preferable, but that was settled in the adoption of the report of the Conunittee on Education. In regard to selling 100 acres I have the same objection that 1 havf had all thi' time, [f we were back in the states, where we have a regular rainfall and where every 40 acres could be cultivated, it would be very different. .No gentleu'an has traveled over his territory and has taken any interest at all in endeavoring to find out abQut the water and about the land knows that nearly every bit of the water has been appropriated except in a few large streams. Now. where there is a small stream and you can get lOO acres, if you allow a purchaser 40 or KiO acres of land it virtually gives him a clear title to the 160 acres, because there is no water that can be had on the remaining acres that he will not control, that is if you sell the 160 acres that has the water and the timbei- on it. The balance of the 640 acres never could be sold; and we are limited by the Enabling Act to the sale of 640 acres. There is no person allowed to purchase more than one section, and it does not seem to me that it would work to the best interests of the school fimd to re- strict it to 160 acres. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I can see where this matfi-r. if it is neglected, would lead to a great deal of fraud and speculation. If an individual wants a section of land and he wants it badly he will obtain it. wliether he had a right himself to purchase it or not. He will get an employe or a friend to enter the land for him. and he will obtain it any- way. I think it is far more to the interests of the public lands that lb'' individuals who want to purchase a section of land should be entitled to purchase if in his own right, and not have others go arovuid and purchase the land for him. They will obtain it an.yway if they want the section of land, and we might as well b-t them have it in a legal and a proper way. I think there is a good deal of latent mischief in that amendment. and it sh(nild not be adopted. Mr. Bui'leigh of Custer: I fully agree with the remarks marie by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. I do not appreliend that there is going to be such a struggle on the part of the authorities to keep this land from being sold as there will be to sell them, and I know no good reason wh\ a man who comes here with his family and settles and wants to locale land enough to settle his children about him should not be allowed id do so. To limit a man to UiO acres, it seems to me. would be the heighfh of folly. I think that every man who goes and locates should buy whatever he wants provided he pays for it. Now. in regard to the matter of irrigation, as my friend from Meagher county says, everyone know-: who has been over the country and taken an observation of the condi- tions of things that exist, that there are IO(X) acres of land that may b(> deprived of the benefit of irrigation by appropriating the water and put- ting it on the IGO acres. That is another reason why a man who i^'oes there and wants to buy 640 acres should certainly be allowerl to do it; and I am certainly opposed to this amendment in toto. I am in favor of selling a man just as much as he will pay for. There is no danger of a 8J4 J^HOCEEDINGS A.VD DEBATES niiiii getting a gri'Mt tv;u-\ of Uiinl niil in lliis arid couiili'v mikI ki-opinpr it 1'i'oin sottli'incnt. 'I'lid'c is annllicf tiling 1 do not like in tliis bill, that is. that nonf nf tiio lands granlcd to common schools shall In' solil for loss tluin ten dolUws an aiTc. Xow, wo propose to put that provision in the constitution. It will remain there as long as this constitution re- mains unaltered. Suppose after five or ten years that it wall prove the case that we cannot sell these lands for five dollars an acre or two dol- lars an acre, and we go to Congress to modify this Enabling Act. (Inter- I'Uptei.l . 'the President: Section 3 has been stricken out. Mr. Burleigh of Custer; Well, I have no more to say in regard to that matter, but it seems to me that wisdom requires that whenever a man comes in to purchase these lands and complies with the require- ments of the Enabling Act that he should be allowed to purchase what ho wants. Thei'e is another thing. \Miei'e these lands remain in ti'ust for the imrposcs for which they were appropriated, they are not taxable, notbin'-' is derived from them to supply the revenues of the state: but the nioincnt they are sold to private parties they become taxable, and I think that a very important consideration in viewing this matter from a financial point of view. I do not want to consume the time of the convention in talking this matter over. 1 merely give my views thus briefly, and will say that they are satisfactory to my mind. The President: The question is upon the amriidrnent offered by the gentleman from Missoula (Mr. Ramsdelll. The Clerk read the said amemlment offen'd by the ^icntlenian from Missoula. Mr. Conrad of Choleaii. I think we an' all agreeti upon mie thing, and that is to get the most out of these lands for the school fund. Now, the question is which is the best Way to work it so as to get the money out of it. I agree with Di'. Parberi-y. There are sections to my knowledge that have 160 acres of wafer frontage, and the other 160 acres lies back on th(^ hills, perfectly arid lands: and if we allow them to buy 160 acres of this lan(.l they will practically own the rest and never will buy it, and T iu'lieve the school fund will get more out of some of these sections of land by selling the entire section. Mr, Witter of Beaverhead: It occurs to me that if there should be any abuse of this privilege, it is right and proper the legislature should attend to it. and it looks to me as if it should be left in the hands of the legislature: and as it stands now. without any further amendment, it would be left to the legislature, Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis cV Clarke: I think so far as the agricultural lands are concerned it ought to be the desire of the people of the stale that they should fall into the bands of actual residents of the state, and 1 do not think very much of the pi'ovision that any more than 160 acres shall be sold to any one individual. The principle is entirely correct, but it seems to me that it wovdd be impossible to enforce such a law as that in tlie terms of the amendment which has been sent to the Chair, be- i^ause everybody knows how ea.sy it is to violate a law of that kind. .\ partv who was in search of this sort of land could buy 1()0 acres, and so on along the line until he could purchase all he wanted. It seems to me that there ought to be a provision by which actual residence on the land was had, and that never should be made unless there was a pro- vision that this agricultural land could be sold on credit. If that was done then provision co\dd be made that before the second or another pay- ment was made, that satisfactory proof should be made to somebody provided by law that at that tim(> the party was in the actual residence and orcupancy of the land, and in the event of his failure to make that sort of proof 'the land itself woidil be forfeited and the amount he paid also rorfeiled. That is my idea of it. I have put into writing the sug- gestion which I make, and I sulimit it to the convention foi' what it is worth (reading!: ".Agricidtural lands shall be sold on credit in tracts not exc(>eding 160 acres, provided that befoie the second or another sub- sequent payment is received the purchaser shall prove to the satisfac- tion of such person as may be prescribed by law that he is actually ic- siding upon the tract of land so purchased: and in case of defaiUt in any defeired payment or the interest thereon the person so defaulting for the [leriod lif ninety days shall forfeit absolutely the tract which he has purchased witli any payment or pa.\inents he may have made, ami the land thus forfeited shall again be soM as in the first instance." 1 submit CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 845 this as ombodyinp my views and offer it as an amendment to the addi- tional section. The President; It will be in order in its proper order. Mr. Kanonse of Meagher: In order that the proposed amendment which has just been read may be offered at this time, inasmucli as it meets my views upon the subject, I will withdraw the amendment offered liy myself to the amendment offered by tlie pentleman from Missoula. ^Ir. Ramsdell of Missoula: I also withdraw my amenrlment. The President: The Chair then understands tliat liolh amendments are now withdrawn for the purpose of allowing the introduction of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis i*t Clarke. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I offer this substitute for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. The President: The Clerk will first read the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke and then the substitute offered by the gentleman from Gallatin. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: My amendment would come in right after the word "law" on line five. The Clerk read as follows: Agricultural lands shall be sold on credit in tracts not exceeding 160 acres, provided that before the second or an- other subsequent payment is received the purchaser shall prove to the satisfaction of such person as may be prescribed by law that he ic actually residing upon the tract of land so purchased: and in case of default in any deferred payment or the interest thereon the person so defaulting for the period of ninety days shall forfeit absolutely the tract which he has purchased, with any payment or payments he may have made, and the land thus forfeited shall again be sold as in the first in- stance. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: As there is in the line above a provision for leasing these lands, it ought to say, instead of "agricultural lands'" — "When sold said land shall be settled on credit," etc. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I dislike a second time to express myself in regard to that, but it does seem to me that the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke is acting in the interest of the actual settler at the expense of the school fund. I do not think that the actual settler should have all the advantages at the expense of the school fund. The President: The gentleman from ("iallatin 'Mr. Luce"! offers an amendment to that, which will now be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Substitute for Toole's amendment offered by Luce of Gallatin: "Provided that the agricultural public lands shall only be sold to actual settlers thereon, and in quantities not to exceed 160 acres, and upon such terms and conditions as may be provided by law." The President: The question is now upon the adoption of the sub- stitute. Mr. Chessman of Lewis & Clarke: I was about to say, Mr. President, that there is too much detail about this matter: that it should be entirely left to the legislature. Here we tie the hands of the legislature and fix it so that they can hardly dispose of this land with any reasonable advantage to the school fund, and it seems to me that the section of itself is suffi- cient to be embodied in the fundamental law, and leave it entirely to the legislature so that they can dispose of it to the best advantage of the settler, to the public and to the school fund, and in such quantities as may be prescribed by law. T am opposed to tying up the hands of the legislature in all matti-rs of title. It is good enough in a general way. Mr. Collins of Cascade: The convention having adopted the policy that this matter shall be left to the legislature, it seems to me that we should not take hold of this matter in the way that we are doing. Now, I believe that this matter of disposing of public lands and of regulating the sale of water, or of disposing of the water — those two questions are the great questions to be disposed of in the interest of the people of Montana, and if we are to go upon an untrodden road, if we are to fry a new policy, I would suggest that this matter be referred to a committee and that they investigate the matter in all its phases and bring in a report. Certainly if we are to branch out in a new policy, T do not think we can make a satisfactory one by trying it in Committee of the Whole or convention. The matter should be referred to a committee. My idea is that we should grapple with these subjects and insist that a new policy should be put into the constitution in regard to them: I do not thinli that we can do justice 846 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES to ourselves nor to the people by trying to do it in this way. It should be referred to a committee, and the r'ommittee stiould invistipati- it with particular reference to this matter. But the convention haviiifr adopted the policy that ttiese lands shall not be leased but sold. I think that this whole subject matter should he stricken out. and if I am in order J move that this whole matter. Article .'^5 and Article 'S\ be stricken out except the first line and a half — "All the public lands of the state are held in trust for all the people, and none of such land nor any estate or interest therein, shall ever be disposed of except in pursuance of general laws— and I leave that in for the purpose of prescribing for the school lands. Now, if we want to go any further than those words imply, it seems to me we cannot do it by legislating in this manner; we want to do it by letting a committee investigate it in all its phases and report. We are having under consideration at present agricultural lands solely and purely. So far as my opinion goes it always iuis been and is yet, that we should not sell them at all. nor authorize the legislature to sell them, but that they should be leased on long terms. That not carrying, I am in favor of com- pelling the legislature to adopt a policy that the a,t;ricultural lands shall not be sold in tracts exceeding 150 acres, anil that they shall not be sold except to bona fide residents. But the proposition is. can we insert this in this article, after having provided generally in the proposition on edu- cation that our policy is to leave it all to the legislature and lot the legis- lature provide such rules as they shall see fit? Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: So far as I am concerned I am entirely contented that this matter should be left to the legislature, but upon entering the con\-ention I found that amendments are pending seek- ing to dispose of these lands in a way different from what my judgment would dictate, and if the convention proposes to take hold of the subject and dispose of it, it seems to -me that there should be one conclusion so far as the agricultural lands are concerned, and that is that they ought to go to the actual settlers. My friend from Meagher County 'Dr. Parberry) refers to the fact that a good deal has been said about the actual settler, and that the lands should be sold to the best advantage for the school fund. I think that no tietter possible way could be devised in the interest of the school fiuid than to keep these lands in the hands of the actual settlers, so that they would be occupied and cultivated and produce something which would bo subject to taxation. Tf the lands should be disposed of at all as a separate and distinct class, as agricul- tural lands, and these lands have been classified, they ought to go to the actual settler. Everybody knows, who is conversant at all with the topog- raphy of this country, that we have plenty of purely pastural lands — grazing lands — and that we ought not to pei'niit them to go to some other purpose, or to be used for purely speculative purposes. I am entirely contented that the whole subject shall go to the legislature, providing they shall he disposed of in the manner provided by law; but if anytliina: is to be done we ought to put s\ich restrictions upon it as will ultimately result in the agricultural lands being occupied by the actual settlers. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: If in order I would like to withdraw the sub- stitute I sent up and offer another one. The President; The gentleman from Gallatin withilraws the sub- stitute offered, and desires to offei- another one. The Clerk read as follows: Substitute for Toole amendment. Provided that in the sale of agricultural lands actual settlers thi'reon shall have the preference under such conditions as may be prescribed by la%y."' Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I mo\e that that substitute be adopted. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I am satisfied that my friend from Lewis it Clarke, who has introduced the substitute \'ov the amendment here, either goes loo far or does not go fai' enougli. He gnes too far, in my judgment, in this, that he proposes to insert into this Constitution — place in this con- stitution a niatler which I think legilimately belongs to the legislature. If he is right in his position and I am wrong, then he does not go lar enough, for carrying his proposition out to its fullest anil most evtiMnlei results, it provides the manner- in which these lands shall be iirescribed for. It is purely a matter of legislation, and if the object is to make a provision for disposing of these lands ultimately then he wants to go on anfl provide for office I'Cid — office hire, and the appointment of a chiel' and necessai'v clerks. Now, 1 lliiid; thai this is a matter of p>u-e legisla- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 847 tion and should bi.' left to the legislature, and not ineorporated here. This is the position whieh I take, and I have not seen anything to indicate tliat my position is not eoriMM't. Mr. Hersht'ield of Lewis & Clarke: I would just like to eall the at- tention of the eon\ention to Section nine of Proposition 28 which reads: ■'In the disposition of the public lands granted by the United States to this state preference shall always be given to actual settlers thereon." This was the suggestion made by tlie gentleman from (lallatin County; and further it says, "ami the Legislative Assembly shall provide by law for carrying tiiis section into effect. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: It seems to me that we might safely leave it to the l(>gislature to prescribe rules and regulations for the disposition of the agricultural lancis as in the original proposition offered. .Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: That provision was only intended to apply to those cases where persons are now actually occupying the school lands, or that may occupy them before they are surveyed. They go onto school lands and occupy them, and make improvements upon them, and when tliey come to be sold other persons might come in and bid more for them on account of these improvements: and for that reason it was put in (here that they should be sold — those that are actually occupied. But as 1 understand the i)rovision of the amendment offered by the gentle- man from Lewis & Clark it is to provide for persons that may go onto lands under contract to pui'chase. We will have no such pre-emption laws such as have been enacted by Congress providing for the going on anii filing and settlement, and such matters as that, but we will have these lands for sale, and we can provide such conditions in the making of the sale as we see fit, and after we have entei-ed into the contract of sale the pErties may go on and by complying with the contract become purchasers. But this provision that we have already only applies to lands where par- ties are in the actual occupancy of those lands now or may become actual octuiiants before they are siu'veyed. Mr. Witter of Beaverliead: It appears to me that the gentleman from Silver Bow puts rather a big construction upon that part as to the privi- leee of the actual settlers. It seems to me that would apply to any lands offered for sale in that way. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Undoubtedly there will be provisions by the legislature preventing parties from trespassing on these lands — going upon them and taking them and using them — as there ought to be — or taking them and going and using them an exhausting the soil. There ought to be such provisions and there undoubtedly will be. But here are parties that have already settled upon these school lands before they are surveyed, and there will be others and that will settle upon the school lands. We will have a small portion fif the domain of Montana surveyed, and in relation to those, why, where they have gone on there under such circniii'^fances, they ought to have the preference in the purchase of them, lint as I said in I'elation to these other lands, there will he leg- islation to prevent people from going upon them and using them and cut- ting the timber or exhausting the soil or doing anything that will impair value. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I think that we would agree upon the proposition that this matter should be left with the legislature. I believe (he legislature will have to take this matter in hand as to the regulation of this land, and for that reason it should be left to them and not encum- ber this constitution with any provisions here unless they are effective. .\s to tlie matter of pre-empti<'n. it is true (hat the legislature cannot pro- vide lor anything like pre-emiition law. neither do I believe that this con- stitutional con\ention can, and as we cannot perfect the pre-emption law, I believe we had better leave it as it is, with as littHe legislation as possible. Mr. Carpenter of T^ewis & Clarke: I think that the amendment and (he amendment to the amendment would both be unwise. The qtiestion immediately before the hcmse is, of course, the amendment to the amend- meril, but that and the amendment are the same in one respect, that is lihi- iting the number of acres of agricultural land to be sold to 1(50 acres. I will, however, say a word upon that. I think (his section ought to re- main as it is with (he exception of the limi(a(ion to 6-40 acres. That, I understand, is already provided for by the Enabling Act, but (he Enabling Act may be changed. It may be wise to put some limitation upon the power of the legislature as to the number of acres to be sold, but I think it would be absurd to limit it to 160. The ordinary agricultural land in 8i8 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES this territory is not very desirable I lliink the worst curse to a poor man would be to advise him to purchase 160 acres of land unless there was water upon it — unless lie had it irrigated and could use it for the pro- tection of crops. A poor man going on 160 acres of agricultural land as it is ordinarily situated in this land would starve to death. He would hardly make a quarter a day as wages, so I think that would be wrong. It would bp a damage to a poor man and to every other man, unless undei' the most favorable conditions and circumstances there was a stream for the purpose of artificial irrigation, which he cannot afford as a rule, to bring about on that number of acres. But probably there ought to be some limitation upon Itie jMiwer (if the legislalure, and there might In"' a legislature sometime up nlhi'r lliat would iji'ovide for selling twenl> thousand acres iji a body, so that there would be no competition and tli" lands would be squanilei-ed in that way. .Vs to the |irovision foi' actual settlers, it seems to mo that would be unwise. As a rule we would not have actual settlers under our system as provided by this constitution. A man would not srtlle on bodii's of lantl: he would bi' xcry loojish lo sclth'. He would look around to see how much the land would cost him. and then provide for settlement upon it. And further it seems to me that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke is a very harsh one, upon the poor man particularly. pro\iding for a forfeiture of cm'i-v- thing ho has paid on it, if a had season should come and he was unabh' to make the second oi- Ihii-d payment. Now, Mr. President, it sei'nis to me that this credit system is bad anywhere it is carried out with a libi'ral policy, but to adopt the credit systrm with that harsh rule provided in the amendment might ruin every liaril working poor man. It seems to me that the section ought to remain as it is. with the simple limitation that no quantity in excess of 6'i0 acres shoidd be sold to any one person. coi'|iora- tion ov company. Mr. I,uce of Oallatin calli'd for the reading of the subslituti' offered hy himsell. The Clerk read the same as follows: Substitute for Toole amen(Jment. Provided that in the sale of agricultural lands actual settlers then'on shall have (he preference under such conditions as may be prescribed by law. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I want to say that when I offered that I ha'l in mind this section that was called to the attention of the convention by the gentleman from Lewis and Clarke fMr. Hershfield . ^^'hen I offered it I supposed it related to school lands, but on reading Section 9 of Propo- sition No. 28 I find it is not limited. That section we have already adopted as a part of the constitution, and it in'ovides "In the disposition of pubic lands granted by the United States to this state preference shall always be given to actual settlers thereon, and the Legislative Assembly shall provide by law for carrying this into effect." Now, then, in that condition the substitute that I offered is precisely in effect what Section 9 is. thai we have already adopted. Again, according to the proposition or the sub- stitute offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, it is in conflict with Section 9, Proposition No. 28, directly, because that provides that IIk^ pref- erence shall b(» given to actual settlers thereon. "And the Legislatixc .As- sembly shall provide by law for carrying this section into effect." Instead of that his position is to legislate here now and take the power away from the legislature that we have already granted. My substitute for his amendment I will withdraw because I think it is covered by Set'tion 9, that has already been adopted, and I think that if we have adopted this section that no conflicting section should be adopted by this convention. This section offered by the gentleman from Lewis it Clarke is jiure leg- islation and takes away this powei' which you have already granted, or a part of it, instead of leaving it to the Legislative Assembly which we have provided in a mandatory way shall provide by law to carry the section into effect. If we adopt the substitute offered by the gentleman from liCwis & Clarke we take away from the legislature the power to carry that proposition into effect so far as legislating in relation to sale of land is concerned. The Enabling .\ct provides — my attention is called to the fact that the legislature provides "That the states provided for in this Act shall not be entitled to any further or other grants of land for any purpose than is expressly provided in this Act. .-Vnd the lands granted by this section shall be held, appropriated and disposed of exclusively for the purposes herein mentioned, in such manner as the legislature of the respective states may severally pi'ovide." I think we have gone in this Section 9 of Pi'oposition No. 28 exai'lly in accordance with the pro\ Jsion< CONSTITUTinNAL CONVENTION 1889 849 of 111!' Eiialiliiif.' Ai-(. I withdraw my anu'ndnx'iit, antl I think if I had uu- dorstnod it riylitly 1 inner shoidd have inado it. Mr. Callaway of Madison: Mr. President. I desire to offer a substitute for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis >S; Clarke (Mr. Toole). I understand it is now in order. I move in Proposition No. 35, f^eclion i. tiint all he strieken out after the word "laws" in tiie third line, and that that be adopted. I will read ^^ertion 1 as it would be if adopted. '■.\ll the publie lands of the state are held in trust for all of the people, and none of such lands, nor any estate or interest therein shall ever be disposed of except in pursuance of general laws." .Mr. Luce of (iallatin: I rise to a puinl of (inler. \\"i> have alri^idy amended that section and adopted it. The PresiidenI: The section has not been adopted. The amendment offered by the gentleman from I^ewis & Clarke fMr. Toole will be in order first, because the amendment of the gentleman from Madison Mr. Callaway contemplates striking out a jinrlion of the section, and the friends of the measure have a right to amend it as much as desired. The question is now upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. .Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I think the gentleman from Galla- tin misapprehended my amendment or the purpose of it. I stated at the time I introdiieed it that I very much prefejrred myself that the matter should be left to the Legislative .\ssembly. and it seems that under the grant itself as read by the gentleman from Gallatin that the matter belongs to the Legislative .\ssembly. It is part of the grant of the general govern- ment that the lands are to be disposed of in the manner prescribed by the Legislative .-Vssembly. So far as the amendment that T offered here is concerned, it is not in conflict with the portion of the section read as having been adopted, that in the sale of these lands preference should be given to actual settlers. I had prepared an amendment when the subject was up. to another portion of the constitution which provided that in the sale of these lands preference should be givgn to all parties who are in the actual occupancy of these lands, who are bona fide residents upon them prior to the fourth day of July. 1880. I was not present when this amendment was adopted, although the purpose and intention of it was that preference should be given to those persons who were occupants of the lands prior to the sale of it; prior to this time, as the constitution of 1884 had the same provision in it. People were then in possession of these lands by reason of a failure to know where the school lands were, and the adoption of that proposition in the constitution of 1884 was certainly an invitation or a declaration, so far as the constitution could make it. that their rights should be respected: and in pursuance of that I know several instances where men went upon school lands believing that they would have the first right to purchase. The price should be fi.xed by somebody, but every man in possession of them should have the preference. How- ever, as was said by Judge Knowles. it certainly cannot be intended that v^ we are going to open up these lands and permit everybody to go upon ' them and cut the limber and exhaust the soil and destroy its value, and then put them up to sell and say that the rights of parties should be respected without loss or anything else. I simply say this in explanation, and I offered this simply that in the event the convention determined to interfere with the sale or disposition of this property, that the sale of the agricultural lands should be so regulated as to give the first preference to actual settlers on the lands. But I believe now^ and believed before that it ought to he left to the Legislative .\ssembly. It seems to me that we are compelled to leave it to the legislature under the grant, and with the consent of my second I withdraw the amendment. The President: The gentleman withdraws the amendment. Hence there is nothing now before the convention except the motion of the gentleman from Madison to strike out. which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out of Proposition No. 3.5 after the word "laws" in the third line, so that the section will read as follows: Sec- tion i. All the public lands of the state are held in trust for all the peo- ple, and none of such lands nor any estate or interest therein shall ever be disposed of except in pursuance of general laws. The motion to amend was seconded. The President: The Chair would suggest that the ("lerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Luce of Gallatin yesterday that was adopted. 850 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Thp Clerk read as follows: Mr. Luce of Gallatin offered an amend- ment to Section I of Proposition No. 35 which was adopted, eliminating tiie words "All of the public lauds of the State are held in trust tor all the people" and substituted the following: "All lands of the State that have been or may hereafter be granted to the State by Congress, and all lands acquired by gift or grant or devise from any person or corpora- tion shall be public lands of the State, and shall forever be held in trust for the people for the respective purposes for which they have been or may be granted, donated or devised, and none of such lands or any estate or interest therein shall ever be disposed of except in pursuance of general laws." Mr. Callaway of Madison: Then my motion is not in order, and I am satisfied with the proposition as it now stands. The President: Are thiM'e any further amendments to the proposition? Ml'. Witter of Beaverhead: 1 move the adoption of the article as now amended. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: I have an amendment which I desire to offer. The President: The gentleman from Yellowstone, Mr. Myers, offers an amendment to Section 2, line six of Proposition No. .34. which is now Proposition No. 35, to strike out "1895" and insert in lieu thereof "1915". The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The Clerk read the section as pi'oposed to be amended as follows: "Tlii> lands of the first of said classes may be sold or leased under such rules and regulations as mav ]h' jirescribed by law. The lands of the second class may lie sold or Ibe timber thereon may be sold, under' such rules and regulations as may be iirescribed by law. The agricultural lands may be either sold oi- leased, unrler such rules and regulations as may be prescribed ljy law. The lands of the fourth shall be sold in alternate lots of not more than five acres each, and not more than one- half of any one tract of such lands shall be sold prior to the year 1915." Mr. Myers of YellowstonB: If that amendment is adopted it will defer the sale of the alternate lots as provided for all the lands of the fourth class, or in other words the lands that are within the limits of the town, or within three miles thereof, as now provided, shall be subdivided into lots of not exceeding five acres each, and as contemplated by the gentle- man from Missoula in his resolution to reserve those lands or not allow any of those lands of the fouith class, or these alternate blocks of five acres each to be sold until 1895. My idea is to hold them for about twenty-five years before they are sold, so that the State may have the benefit of the increase of value of those lands. The Chair stated the question on the motion of the gentleman from Yellowstone, Mr. Myers, and a division being called for the same was ileclared lost by a vote of nineteen in the affirmative and twenty-one in the negative. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I move to amend by making it 1910. The motion was seconded. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I hope that this will be inserted. We have I)rovided here for alternate lots to be sold, and if buildings are erected on (hose alternate lots it will make the others very valuable: and if we hold them until 1910 it will add materially to the school fund. If we go now to improve these lands, the year 1895 will be on us before any improvements are actually completed. The reserve lots — the first s(>ttlell lots shall be sold now or as soon as the Legislature can get ai'nund lo it, and then we hold the other lands until 1910. The Clerk read the section as proposed to be amended by the amend- ment of the gentleman from Choteau CMr. Conrad^ to insert "1910" in place of "1895". Mr. Burleigh of Oistei': I can see one serious objection to this and only one. We will take for instance the case of the city of Missoula here that is gi'owing and expanding. Now, if you extend the time, while if may enhance the school fund \'ery materially, it may be a gri'al obstacle in the way of building up the city. T make ttie suggestion as one that suggests itself to my minii. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I am satisfii'd that short leases, so far as the school lands are concerned, that valuable leases cannot be marie, and if leased at all the buildings will necessarily be very indifferent, and the rents will always be small, and it does seem to me that for (he sake of llie improvement of the city if noihing else the section should be allowed CONSTITUTIONAL GONVENTIOX 1889 851 to stand iis it is. I believe tliat the selionl fund will not suffer by it. I believe in live or six years those lands will be as valuable as they wilt ever be, and the interest on the fund will always exceed the income from any leases that may be made for five years, with the small building.s that will necessarily be put upon them, lor no lessee is going to put Aaluabie improvements upon a lease for five years. I hope the time will not be i-xtended as long as thi' gentleman suggests. It seemed to me when I ilrew up this proposition that 1895 would be long enough. It does seem to me that putting it off twenty-fi\e or thirty-five years will not only be an injury to the city of Missoula, but as I believe actually a detri- ment to the school fund of the State of Montana. Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I do not think that 1910 is too long to hold these alternate lots. That portion of the town that is now school land will be built up for residence property anyway and if a good residence was put on each alternate block of about four acres it will certainly en- hance the other block, and we cannot expect that very many residences will be built before 1895. because this law will not so into effect until 1890. So I hope that the clause of 1910 will prevail. I think it will be to the interest of the school fund. Mr. Callaway of Madison: It is perhaps well foi' this convention sometime to recur to facts of history. I beg of these gentlemen their indulgence while I state that if they ever recur to the history of Illinois they will remember that it had a magnificent heritage granted them by Congress for school purposes. By the jobbing of the Legislature, by land sharks getting in their work, the fact is that nearly the entire grant to the State of Illinois for school purposes was frittered and nothing left. Gentlemen here, some of them, have said that we are not the assenibled wisdom of the world. That I know, and I do not presume, sir. that we are anything more than the average Legislature will be in point of alle- giance or integrity. But we are not disposing of these lands. You will know how easy it is for some gentleman who has substantial interests to get a law passed that will benefit him. when nine-tenths of the Legislature do not know what he is doing. Recall history. You heard a very eloquent and able speech yesterday from the gentleman from Nevada Senator Stewgrt"' speaking about the passage of a law demonetizing silver, and yet to this day the history of thaC legislation is not known: no man knows how it was done. I am in favor of the amendment of the gentleman from Choteau. for the reason that I believe the time should be deferred when this property shall be disposed of. As a little more of Illinois history, there happened somehow or other to be retained by the State one block in the city of Chicago for school purposes. That single block today is worth one million of dollars. They have hardly any school land left there now except that. The entire school lands were sold to jobbers and appropriated by speculators. So that I say that in this provision when every alternate lot as provided here is reserved, it will not retard the settlement of the progress of the city of Missoula or the city of Bozeman or the city of Miles, and I believe that if we do not do our duty here in reserving some of these lands until they can rise in value and increase our school fund and preserve if, we will regret it. The greatest interests of a civilized people is the education of the chil- dren of the land. Therefore. I do insist that the time shall be long deferred when the Legislature will be enabled in any way to dispose of all of this grand heritage donated us by Congress. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Choteau (Mr. Conrad' to insert "1910", and a division being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of twenty-eight in the affirmative to eight in the negative. Mr. Schmidt of Silver Bow: T would like to know how Section I of Article 35 reads by this time? The President: The whole proposition should be read before it is acted upon. For the information of the gentleman from Silver Bow Section 1 will now be read. The Clerk read the section as amended for the information of the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move the adoption of the section. The motion was seconded. The President: The Chair would tike to make one suggestion as to the difficulty of defining the limits of a city of town that is not im-or- porated. Would it not give rise to some difficulty and confusion. 852 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I understand that under Ihc present law they should he defined and must be defined. I think that a three mile limit would define this matter, within and fully cover the point suggested by the Chair. The President: It is moved and seconded that Section I as amemleil be now adopted. The (question is now on the motion to ailnpl. The Chair put the question on the motion to adopt Sect inn 1 and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: Mr. Luce of Gallatin offers an amendment to Section 2 of Proposition No. 35 as it now stands, being Proposition No. 35 as printed. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 2 of Proposition No. 31 as amended by striking out of line six (he words "and not more than one-half of any one tract of such lands" and insert "and only the alternate odd numliered lots." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move to amend the amendment by insert- ing after the word "laws" the words "unless occupied by actual settlers." Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I hope this will not carry. I do not see that it makes any difference whether the odd numbered or the even numbeiTd lots should be sold. They are amending this proposition se- tion by section and word by word. We will have to refer it back to the committee that it came from, just the same as the judiciary report. Mr'. Luce of (iaihitin: I accept the amendment of the gentleman from Meaglier. The President: The queslion now is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Gallatin as further amended and accepted by adding thereto "and unless occupied Ijy actual setfli>rs." Mr. Wittier of Beaverhead: I wovUd like to ask the gentleman a question— whether he intends to settle every fourth lot or every other lot. Mr. Luce of (iallatin: Well, every odd numbered lot — every alternate odd mmibered lot. The first lot to be numbered "one", the next alternate lot to be numbered "three", and then sell every second lot. That is the language that has been used in all these grants to railroad corporations and everything else — every alternate odd numbered lot. Let me get before this convention what I mean. (Reading' "The lands of the fourth class shall be sold in lots of not more than five acres and ni>l more than one-half on any such lands shall he sold prior to" etc. Instead of selling the alternate lots you sell the half of an alternate lot. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: If the gentleman will allow me to make a suggestion: the language used is "every alternate lol nnd ilesignated by numbers." I\li-. L\ice of Gallatin: Well, "every alternate lot designated by odd numbers." So that you sell the half of a five acre lot. and then that which remains unsold gets the benefit of the increased value. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: Mr. President, suppose we put "one-liair of any one section." "The one-half of (he tract" was not ind'nded to refer to the five acre tracts, but to the school tracts. The President: The question is upon the adoption ol llie .unendment. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move, sir, (o subsdtute for the language used, without changing (he idea, as has been su.ggesled by the gentleman, (he following: "No more tlian oni'-lialt' of each alternate lot not exce(^(l- ing five acres in extent shall be sold" etc. Mr. Mayger of Lewis & Clarki': 1 would li] g(Mitleman from Meagher offers an amendment to the amendment offered by (he gentleman from (iallatin which will now bo i-ead. CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTIOX 1889 a53 I'he Clerk read as follows: Beginning after the word "each" strike out "and not more than oni:'-half of any such lands' and substitute the following; "No more than oni'-half of each alternate lot, and not exceed nig five acres in extent, shall lie sold prior to the year 1910." Mr. Ramsdell of Missoula: It seems to me that there is one vital error in that, that is going to creep in after years. It may be absolutely necessary for the prosperity of some growing town that this land be sold or leased under such conditions that they may build and move on with the prosperity of the town, and if this provision is in there it will be impossible to settle only on these alternate sections of land, and there- by retard the growth and development of the cities and towns that may be able to build on these lands. It occurs to me that this will be a serious mistake— that although it is a laudable ambition to keep this fund and allow the value to enhance to the benefit of the school fund, yet at the same time we should not lose consideration of the fact that it is going to linrt the interests of these towns. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I see another matter in this amendment of the gentleman from Meagher, and that is the closing clause where it provides for actual setttlers. Now. iDcfore the contingency may arise, if this constitution is adopted and before the Legislature could reasonably be expected to adopt laws regulating the sale of this land, the whole of that section might be squatted on by squatters, and they would take advantage of this provision here. I think the whole matter ought to go to some committee to be straightened out. Mr. Conrad of Chot^au: I hope that this amendment will not prevail for the same reason that the gentleman from Madison has stated. If it does you will find that men will put up ten-acre shacks upon the property and will claim the right to purchase it. As to the phraseology-, I do not object to that part of it. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I think the point raised by the gentleman from Madison is very well taken. I made that same suggestion to the gentleman who introduced the proposition a few moments ago. There is 0(1 question but such a thing as that will occur, and our action here will be futile. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I quite agree with the gentleman from Madison. There would be ample time while the constitution was being adopted to oppose these lands. It ought to he cut right down to the very day that it was discussed in the convention. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the amendment offererl by the gentleman from Meagher, and the same was declared lost. The President: The question now recurs upon the amendment offereii by the gentleman from Gallatin Mr. Luce . The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and the same was declared lost. Mr. Mayger of Lewis ^t Clarke: I would urge my motion now to refer this matter to the committee on piiiiting. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I move as an amendment that this whole subject mattter be referred to the committee on education. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I move that the .section as amended he adopted. The President: The motion In refer is in order. The question is upon the adoption of the section, and it has been moved to refer to the Committee on revision and phraseologj-. Mr. Schmidt: I would amend that by moving that we consider Sec- tion 4. and then I would amend the amendment to refer the proposition to the committee on revision and phraseology with instructions to clothe (he ideas adopted in other and jilainer language, have it printed and report to the convention. Mr. Mavger of Lewis & Clarke: My idea of referring this to the .•nmniittee on printing was to have this matter printed and referred to the members. After it is adopted it wont make any difference. I want to get to see this matter before it is adopted. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow asks for a considera- tion of Section 4 before that is done. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: I move that Section 4 be adopted and renumbered 3. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. 854 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The President: Now. the question before the conventinn is upon thr reterence of the iiroposition as amended to llie Cominittei' on Revision and I^hraseidogy. with instiuctions to revise it and ordri- it printed for Hie consideration of the convention. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I would call for tlie reading of Pi'oposi- tion No. 35 as amended, so that the members can tell whether it suits them or not. The President: If (here be no ob.jection it will be read. The Clerk- read Proposition No. 35. 'i'he President: There is a motion to refer this to tlic Printiiifr Con\- mittee. Mr. I.uce of (lalhilin; T think the cdnvention has spciil lime enough on this proposition, and I think from the reading of it by the Clerk that it must be apparent to everyone. I think we are well able to dispose of it now. I cannot understand why it is necessary to delay this matter any longer. I understand that the people outside are anxious to see this constituiion, and I certainly don't blame them. Mr. Mayger of Lewis & Clarke: I will withdraw my motion. The President: The question is on the adoption of the proposition as amended. The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Browne, Buford, Burleigh, Burns. A. F.: Burns. \. .1.: Callaway, Cardwell. Cariienter, Chessman, Conrad, Cooper, Coiu'tney. r)yer. Eaton. Fields. Gaylord. Gillette, Goddard. Hammond, Hatch, Herstifield, Hickman, Hobson, Hogan. .toyes, Kennedy, Knowles, Loud, Luce, Maginnis. Marshall, Mayger, McAdow, Muth, Myers, Parberry, Schmidt, Watson. Winston, Mr. President — 41. Nays: Aiken, Kanouse, Milcliell, Hamsdell, Toole, .1. K.: Whitrhill — 6. .\bsent: Bickford. Brazleton. Bollard. Burns. Ed: Cauby. Collins. Craven. Dixon. Durfee. Gibson. Ciraves, Hartman, Haskell, Joy, Knippen- tierg, Kohrs, Marrion. Middleton, Reek, Robinson, Rickards. Sargent. Sta- pleton. Toole, J. R.: Warren, Webster, Witter— 27. The Chair announced the vote and declared the proposition adopted. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I desire to ask the convention to excuse me imtil Tuesday afternoon. I have some very important business in the lower country and would like to go down and attend to it. The President: If there be no ob.jection. the gentleman will be excused. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: I move that when the convention adjourn it adjourn until four o'clock on Monday. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and tbr same was declared carried. The President: The Chair desires to make a statemeid. This Prn]io- silion 35 has been adopted as jiart of the constitution and will be referred to the Engrossing and Enrolling Committee and subse(|uently to \ho Committee on Revision and Phraseology. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I have a resolution which I wish to intro- duce and have referred to the Judiciary Committee. The President: The resolution will he read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as follows: Resolved, that W. H. Green, Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms, and Henry Bernard, Clerk of the Committee on Finance and Acting Clerii for the Committee on Miscellaneous Subji'cts, togiMhei- with the stenographer and such other officers as are not pro\id(id for. be included among the attaches provided for in Resolution No. 31. The President: If there be no objection this will be receiveil and referri'd to the Committee on Judiciary. Mr. Buford of Madison: I move that the comention nnw take a recess until two o'clock. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis it Clarke: I mnxc we adjourn. 'I'he motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion lo adjuuni, and thi> same was declared carried. The i^onvenlion adjourned until Monday, .\ugust, 12th. 1880. at -1 P. M. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 855 THIRTY SI<:CO\D DAY. Monday, August 12th, 1889. 4 P. M. The convention was called to order bv the President. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The Chair has a letter from Mr. Edward Burns asking to be excused until Wednesday. If there be no objection he will be e.xcused. The Chaplain offered prayer. The Clerk read the journal of the previous day. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: My colleague, Mr. Rickards, has been so unfortunate as to he afflicted by the death of one of his children who died yesterday afternoon. I desire to have him excused until tomorrow. The President: If there be no objection. Mr. Rickards. having lost one of his children by death, will be excused until tomorrow. .Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I would ask that i\lr. Knippenberg of Beaverhead County be excuseii. The President: Mr. Knippenberg will be excused until tomorrow if there be no objection. Mr. Middletnn of (duster: The Committee on Engrossment and Enroll- ment desire to make the following report. Tlie President: The Clerk will read the report of the Committee on Engrossment and Enrollment. The Clerk read as foltows: Mr. President: Your Committee on En- grossment and Enrollment, to whom was referred Propositions No. 24. 27 and 35, for the purpose of enrollment, beg leave to report that the enrolled copies have been carefully compared with the originals and that said propositions are correctly enrolled. (Signed) MIDDLETON, Chairman. The President: If there be no objection, the report will be received and adopted. 'Ihe Clerk also read the following report of the Committee on Rights (if Suffrage and Qualifications to Hold Office, which was sent to the Clerk's desk. .\1''. President: Your Committee on Riglits of Suffrage and Qualifica- tions to Hold Office, to whom was referred Pmiiosition No. 20 on Woman Suffrage, offered by Callaway, toi^ether with a communication and two petitions relating to the same subject, beg leave to report thai they have had the same under consideration and report them back without recom- mendation. (Signed; ROTWITT, Chairman. The Clerk read Proposition 29. Ml'. Kennedy of Missoula: I move you that the report be laid upon the table. The motion was seconded. Mr. Luce of Gallatin called for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection, the ayes and nays will be ertered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Cardwell. Carpenter, Courtney, Craven, Dixon, Durfee. Dyer, Eaton", Gibson, Gra\es. Hammrinrl. Hartman, HiM'shfield, Hogan, Joyes, Iven- nedy. Kohrs. Luce, Magiimis. Mai'rion, Marshall. Mayger, Middleton, Mitchell, Reek, Robinson. Rotwitt, Schmidt, Slapleton, Toole, Jos. K.: Whitehill. Winston. Witter-:«. Nays: Aiken. Bickford, I'.razli'ton, Breen, Browiie, Buford, Bullard, Burleigh. Burns, .\. F.; Burns, .\. .1.: Callaway. Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper. Fields, Gibson, Gillette, Goddard, Hatch, Hickman, Hobson, Kanouse. Knowles, Loud, Mc.Vdow, Mnth, Myers, Parberry, Ramsdell, Sar- gent, Toole, .T. R.: Warren, Watson, Mr. President— 35. .\bsent: Burns. E.: Gaylord, Haskell, Joy, Knippenberg, Rickards, Webster— 7. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to lay on the table lost. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move that the report of the committee be received and that the resolution or proposition be adopted. The motion was seconded. 856 I'HOCEEDINOS AND DEBATES Mr. Callaway of Madisdir I niove to amoiid the motion of the gentlo- iMUP. from Siilver Bow tliat ilip proposition as presented be adopted as a separate proposition in \ho constitution. 'I'he motion was seconded. The President: The Chair is of the opinion that without the suspen- sion of the rules the proposition would have to be considered in the Committee of the ^^■hole before it can be adopted is a part of the consti- tution. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: For the sake of expediting the thing. I move Inat the rules be suspended. 'J'he motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the rules of the con- vention be suspended, that the report of the Committtee on Suffrage be received and the resolution reported back to be adopted and made a separate proposition in the constitution. Mr. Marrion of Missoula called for the ayes and nays. The President: If tlieri' be no objection, the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .\yes: Aiken, Bickford, Bret'n, Browne. Bollard, Burleigh, Burns, A. F.: Burns. A. J.; Callaway, Cauby, Chessman. Collins, Conrad, Cooper. Fields. Gillette, Goddard, Hatch, Hickman, Hobson, Kanouse. Knowles. Loud, McAdow, Muth. Myers. Parberry. Sargent, Toole. .Jos. K.: Toole, J. R.: Warren, Watson, Mr. President — 34. Nays: Brazleton, Cardwell. Carpenter, Courtney, Craven, Dixon. Dui'- fee. Dyer, Eaton, Gibson. Graves, Hammond, Hartman, Ilershlii'ld. Hoj^an. .Toy, Joyes, Kennedy. Kohrs, Luce, Maginnis. Marrion, Marshall. .Mayger. Middlet'on, Mitchell, Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson, Rotwift, Schmidt, Staplefon, Whitehill, Winston, Witter— 34. Absent: Burns, E.: Gaylord. Haskell, Joy, Knipiienlierg, Hickanls and Webster. The Chair announced that the motion, lia\ing failed to rcci'iM' n two- thirds majority, was lost. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I muve you, sir, that the pniposifion bi^ referred to General Orders for consideration. The motion was seconded, Mr. Maginnis of Lewis t'v. Clarke: I move that the resolution be indefinitely postponed. The President: The motions are not in order because the matter has been disposed of. Are there any other reports of standing com- mittees? Mr. Breen of Jefferson sent up the following, which was n^ad by lie' Clerk: "Every citizen of the State shall be free to obtain employment wherever possible, and any person, corporation or agent thereof keepinc a blacklist, interfering or hindering in any way a citizen from obtaining or enjoying employment already obtained from the same or any other ■■orporation or person, shall be deemed guilty of a conspiracy against the welfare of the State, which offense shall he deemed felony," The President:, If there be no objection, this will be received, and unless otherwise directed, referred to the Committee on Labor. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Some time during last week T submitted a memorial here. There was a special committee appointed on that, and I would like to know when they expect to report. The President: Will Govei'nor Carpenter, who is Chairman of that committee, be kind enough lo jnform the gentleman from Silver Bow when the committee will be able to report? Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: The committee will be able to i-eport in a day or two. Tlu'v have been unable to make any report as yet. The President: If there be no objection. Tnrther time will be pranted the committee. The unfinislied Inisiness before the conxentinn relates lo State Institutions and Public Buildings. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis ct Clarke: I desire to inquire llie present status of the business. The President: The Chair is of the opinion if woulit be heller for the Clerk to read Ibe mimites to ascertain precisely the condilinn of tliat pi'oposilion. The Clerk read the minutes. Mr, Luce of Gallatin: I would like to in(]uii'e if Mr. ^^'arren's amend- ment is bel'oi'e llir' conveulinn now. CONST[Tl"l'IONAL CONVENTION 1889 857 The President: The Clerk informs the Chair that nothing has been done with it. Everything else has been disposed of except the substi- tute offered. Mr. ,1. U. Toole of Deer Lodge: I desire to make a motion that the consideration of ttiat substitute for Section 2 be indefinitely postponed. Mr; Luce of Gallatin: I would like to offer an amendment to the substitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher County. The President: The Chair desires to state to the gentleman from Deer Lodge that a motion to indefinitely postpone an amendment is not in order. It could apply to the main question but not to the amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade: My recollection is that the motion of the gentleman from Lewis i*c Clarke County to substitute "White Sulphur Spririgs" was the last motinn, Mr. Luce of Gallatin: His motion was to strike out something that did not exist. It was ruled out of order. If I understand the proposition before the convention now, the amendment offered by the gentleman from Silver Bow has been withdrawn, and nothing remains before the conven- tion bid, the substitute offei'ed by the gentleman from Meagher County. The President: Thai is the position id' il. and you offer the sub- stitute now"? Mr. Luce of Ciallatin: Yes sir. Mr. Reek of Deer liOdge: I wish to offei; an amendment to substitute for Section 2. The President: The Chair desires to state that the question now before the convention is the substitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher, Mr. Kanouse. The substitute will be read. The Clerk read as follows: Substitute for Section 2." .\fter the ad- mission of (lie State into the ITnion and at the general election in the year 1802, the question of permanent location of the seat of government is hereby |)ro^•ided to be submitted to the qvudified electors of the State and a niajority of all the votes vujon said question shall determine the election thereof. In case there shall be no choice of location at said election the question of choice between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast shall be and is hereby submitted to the qualified electors at the next general election thereof. The President: The Clerk vA'ill now read the amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin, Mr. Luce. The Clerk read as follows: Amend by adding the following: Provided that until the seat of govei-nment shall ha\e lieen permanently located the temporary seat of government shall be and remain at the city of Helena. The President: It is mo^ed ami seconded that the amendment be adopted. The question now liefore the convention is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from (iailatin. Mr. Luce of tiallatin called for the ayes and nays. The President: The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal, if there be no objection. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stond as follows: .\yes: Breen, Browne. Bul'ord. Bullard, Burleigh, Burns. A. F.: Burns, A. J.: Cardwell. Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Collins. Conrad. Cooper. Craven. Eaton. Fields. Ciibson. Gillette, Goddard. Graves, Hammond, Hersh- field. Hobson, Joyes, Kanouse. Loud, Maginnis. Maygei', McAdow, Middle- ton. Muth, Myers. Parberry. Holwitt, Toole, Witter — 37. Nays: Aiken, Bickford. Brazleton, Callaway, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Hartman, Hatch. Hogan. Kennedy. Knowles, Kohrs, Luce, Marrion, Mar- shall. .Mitchell. Ramsdell, Reek, Robinson. Sargent, Schmidt. Stapleton, Toole. J. R.: Warren. Whitehill, Winston, Mr. President— 28. Absent: Burns, E.: Gaylord, .Joy, Webster — 4. Paired: Dyer and Kiuppenberg. Haskell ami NN'atson. Hickman and Rickards — (i. The Chair announced the vote and declared the amendment carried. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of the substi- tute. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I have an amendment. Mr'. Collins of Cascade: T move that the vote by which the last motion was carried be reconsidered. Mr. Maginnis: And I move to lav that motion on the table. 858 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Prusiilont: It is iiiovimI and seconded that the vote by whicli the hist motion was carritd shall he reconsidered, and the gentleman from Lewis et Clarke moves to lay that motion on the table. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: 1 have an amendment. The Presiderft: The motion to reconsider takes precedence of every- thing else except a motion to adjourn. The qnestion now is upon the motion ti> I'i'consider llic xotc liy which Helena was |ilaced in the sub- stitute and til lay upon the table. Mr. Marshall of Missoula called for the ayes and nays. The President: The ayes and nays will be entered in the jnurnal. The t|uesti0H is upon the motion to lay upon the table the motion to reconsider the vote by which Helena was adopted. 'J'he Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: P.rowne, Buford, BuUard, Burleigh, Burns, A. F.: Burns. A. J.; Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman. Collins. Conrad. Cooper. Craven, Eaton. Gibs'on, Gillette, Goddard. Gra\es, Hammond, Hershfield, Hobson, Joyes, Kanouse, Loud, Maginnis, Mayger, McAdow, Middleton. Mitchell. Muth. Myers, Parberiy. Holwitt, Toole. J. K.: Witter — 36. Nays: Aiken, Bickford. P.ra/leton. Bieen. Callaway, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Fields. Harlman. Hatch, Hogan. Kennedy, Knowles, Kohrs. Luce, Marrion, Marshall, Ramsdelj, Heek, Robinson, Sargent, Schmidt, Staple- ton, Toole, J. R.; Warren, ^^■hitehill, \\'inston. Mr. President— 29. Absent: Burns. E.: (iaylord, .Jny. Webster — 'i. Paired: Dyer i^l Knippenbert;-. Haskell \' Watson, Hickman & Itick- ards- -(5. The Chair announcnl the \iile and iIitIiuciI the motion carried. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis iV Clarke; I iiinxe the adoption of the substi- tute. Mr. J. K. Toole of IjCwis & Clarke: I move the previous questinn upon Section 2 and the substitute. The President: The question before the convention is upon the adop- tion of the substitute and the section. Upon this the previous question has been demanded. The question before the convention is. shall the main question be now put? The previous question will apply to the amendment first, and then to the section. The Chair put the previous question, and the same was declared caiMied. The President: The question now is upnn the adoption of the sub- stitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher. Mr. Kanouse. as amended by the proviso, providing that until the permanent seat of government shall be located the temporary seal of go\erimii'nt sliall remain at Helena. The question is upon the adoptinn of that substitute as amcndi^d. Thi- ayes and nays are demandi'il. The Clerk will call the roll. The vole stood as follows: .\yes: Bieen, Browne, Buford, Bullard, Burleigh. Burns. A. F.: Burns. A. .1.; Callaway, Cardwell. Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman. Collins. Conrad. Cooper. Craven, Eaton, l-"ields. (iibson. Gillette, (ioddard. Graves. Hammniid. Hershfield, Hobson, Joyes, Kanouse, Loud, Maginnis, Mayger. Mc.Vdow. Middleton, Mitchell. Muth, Mver.s. Parberrv, Rotwitt, Toole', J. K.: Witter —30. jN'ays: Aiken. Bickford. Brazlelon, Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Hartman, Hatch, Hogan, Kennedy, Knowles, Kohrs, Tjuce. Marrion, Marshall. Rams- dell, Reek, Robinson, Sarpenl, Schmidt, Staplefon. Toole, .1. R.: W;uTeii, Whitehill, Winston, Mr. President— 2Ci. .Absent: 1-iurns, E.; Gaylord. .loy and Webster — A. Paired: Dyer and Knippenbi'rg, Haskell and Watson, Itirkni.ui and RIckards — (i. The Chair announced tlir \ii|r and deidai'ed the substitute idMercd by Ihe .i;entleman from Meatilier to Srclioii 2 of t'l'oposition No. |,S, as amend- eil, carried. Mr. .1. K. 'I'oole of Lewis \ Clarke: I move to reconsidei- lb,' \o|i' by which that substitute was adoiili'd. niul to lay that motion on tlii- t;dile. Tlie motion was seconded. The President: It. has beiii moNi'd and seconded that the voti- by which the substitute was adopted be reconsidered. There is also a motion lo lay that motion to reconsider upon ttie table. The ipiestion is upon the motion to reconsider. Mr. Honan of Silver Bow called lor Ihe ayes and nays. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 859 Ayes: Biven. Browne Buford, BuUard, Builoi^h. Burns, A. F.: Burns, A. J.; Calliiway. Cariiwell. Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper. Craven, Eaton, Fields. Gibson, Gillette, Goddard. Graves, Ham- mond, Herslilield. Hobson. .loves. Kanouse, Loud. Maginnis. Mayger. Mc- Adow. Middlelon, Mitchell. Muth. Mvers. Parberry, Rotwitt. Toole, J. K.; Wifter— 39. Nays: Aiken, Bickford. Bra/.leton. Courtney, Dixon. Durfee. Hartman, Halrh. Hogan, Kennedy. Knowles. Kohrs. Luce, Marrion, Marshall. Rams- dell. Reek, Robinson. Sargent. Schmidt. Stapleton. Toole. J. R.; Warren, Whifehill. Winston. Mr. President— 26. Absent: Burns. E.: Gaylord. Joy and Webster — i. Paired: Dyer and Knippenberg. Haskell and Watson. Hickman and Rickards — 6. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion carried. Mr. \\itter of Beaverhead sent up an amendment, which the Clerk read as follows: '"Add to Proposition No. 18. Section 6: It shall be the duty of the Legislative Assembly to make provision as soon as practicable for "a State University. School of Mines, State Normal School. Agricultural College. State Reform School. Dead and Dumb Asylum. Insane Asylum and State Penitentiary. Provided that no more than two of such institu- tions shall be located in any one conuty in the State, and none of them in the county in which the capital of the State is located." Mr. !Maginnis of Lewis >.^- Clarke: It will be necessary to have two penitentiaries, an eastern penitentiary and a western penitentiary. I move the substitute "two" for "one". Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I accept the amendment. Mr. Muth of Lewis & Clarke: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins of Cascade: With the arguments that we have heard here the last week about legislation. I do not see the necessity of adopting this at all. The Legislature has the power, and will certainly exert that power as soon as possible, to govern this matter. So it seems to me that is no reasonable cause why this should go into the proposition. It does not add one iota to or take one iota from the power of the Legislature. If we adopt this section it don't add to or take from any of the authority or powers of the Legislative Assembly. It is not necessary because the Legislative Assembly will have that power without it, except it may be possible that the Legislature might, put two educational institutions in one place and this would prohibit it. I dn not care where the University or the educational institution may be liicated. The question comes before the convention. Is not it right and proper that two or more of those insti- tutions may bi* located where the University is located, whether it be at Bozeman, Missoula, or elsewhere. It seems to me the best thing to do is to leave this matter entirely with the Legislature. Mr. Reek of Deer Lodge: I hope this motion will not prevail, for the simple reason that if it does no two of these State institutions can be located in one towTi. I think it would be very necessary to locate several of these institutions in the same place, especially these educational institutions. I think the State University, the School of Mines and the Agricultural College should be all located in the same town and should be subject to and under the control of the same management. I think it would be an advantage to the school. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I offer this fnr the purpose of distributing these institutions throughout the State. That is the ob.ject of the section, and I have no arg\mient to make upon it. It is to the interest of the State that they should be distributed. It is to the interest of any town that they should all be in any one town, and that is as the matter would stand. If you get them all in one location it would be good for that particular location: if Would be of nn advantage at all to the Stati' to have them all in one place. Mr. Aiken of Silver Row: T have an amendment to Mr. Witter's amendment. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I would like to call again for the reading of the section. I did not understand whether it embraced part of the public institutions provided for by the Enabling Act. The Clerk read the amendment. Mr. Witter nf Beaverhead: The amendment that the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (iffered was two penitentiaries instead of one. It did not apply In any i>f the nther Stale institutions. 860 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Tim President: There is an amendment here now from the penflenian from Silver Bow that is in order. Mr. ^^'itter of Beaverhead: T wonld like to have that amendment rectified, else I cannot aecept if. It reads now that not more than two shall he established in any one eoiinty. and the gentleman from Lewis ik Clarke had reference only to there being two penitentiaries in the State. Mr. Mulh of Lewis & Clarke: The gentleman from Beaverhead is entirely in accord with the intention of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lewis i^ Clai-ke. The mistake was made by the Clerk. Tlie gentleman from Lewis tt Clarke moved to make it two penitentiaries. The Clerk instead of making it that way has left it to read "one penitenti- ary" and has changed the word "two" in reference to the building or buildings to be placed in any one county. The President: The Chair undei'stands then that it is two peniten- tiaries, and not more than one of tliesi' buildings shall be placeil in any one county. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I desii-e to ask if an amendnn'nt is in onler. The President: .Not at present. The Clerk will now read the amend- ment offered by (lie gentleman from Beaverhead, as amended and accepted. The Clerk read as follows: .\dd to Pi'oposition No. 18, Section ti: It shall be the duty of the Lepislative .Assembly to make provision as soon as praclicable for a State IJnixersity, Srhoid of Mines, State Normal School. Agricultural College, State Reform School, Deaf and Dumb Asylum. Insane Asylum and two State Penitentiaries. Provided that not more than one of such institutions shall tie located in any one county of the State, and none of them in the co\mty in which the capital of the State is located." Mr. Warren of Silver Bow sent up an amendment, which the Clerk read as follows: "Provided, that nothing herein shall prevent counties now having such builtlings from having any of said institutions." The amendment was seconded. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I make I lie slatement foi- this n-ason: In Deer Lodge county the contract for the keeping of the insane is bein^ performed, but it is not a State Institution. Therefore I am satisfied that the people of Deei- Lodge county would like very well to get rid of the Penitentiary and the Insane Asylum both, and I think it nothing more than right that they should have an op|iort\mi(y of I'ompetin^ for these public buildiniis, .Ml', (ioddard of Vi'llnwstone: I see im piuiicular iwed of llie aineml ment offered by the gentleman from Silver B^w County, inasmuch as If this section is adopted as amended the legislature wili have a rit;bt to locate these institutions wherever it may see fit, and it would just simply be superfluous and would not be I'jinding. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman fi'oni Silver Bow on the adoption of the amendment to the amendment, and the same was dindaretl losl. Mr. Luce of Ciallatin sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Gallatin d(>sires to amend the section offei'ed by the genlli'inan frcnii Bivixerhead iMi'. Witter , as fol- lows: .Add the following to Section (i: Provided, that no State Inslilii- tion shall be located until flic ca|illol of the state shall liaxe lieeii per- manenlly located. The amendment was seconded. The Chair put the (piestion on Ihe said amendmenl, and thi' sami' was declared carried. I\lr. Middleton of Cusler: I would sut;t;i'sf llial the F.naliJiiig .Vcl. Sec- tion 17, jirovides for .\griculfural Colleges and .\iirmal Schools, ,and makes an appropcial ion of lands for those in tin' plural, and as the sec- lion r(M sci'li{in as amended, Mr. Reck of Dcci' Lddi^c: 1 iim\c ymi lli:il wc slijki' iinl Ihe first proviso ill the section. The Clerk read Willi'r's ami'iidmcni. .Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis and Cl.'irkc: I wcnild :isk if "colleges!" ami "normal schools" is not plural? y]v. Wiltcr of Bea\erhead: They are in the singulai'. but 1 will ai'- cepf ;ui amcndineiit to that effect. CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVENTION 1889 801 Tiip President: It. will be so eorrected. The gentleman Ironi Deer Lodge move? to strike out the proviso, which reads as follows: "Provided that not more than one of such institutions shall be located in any one county in tlie state, and none of them in the county in which the caiiital of the state is located." Mr. Reek of Deer Lodge: Strike out the word "provisn" and (he last word "state." The Presidenl : The genileman will please send up the amendment. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I move to strike out the entire substitute and attach to Section 1 the proviso that not more than one institution shall be located in any one county of the state. That will cover the entire ground that the gentlemen are desiring to get at. The President: If the gentleman will write "Ul his substitule the Chair will entertain it. Mr. Hickman of Madison sent up an amendment. The President: The Chair will hold the amendment of the gentleman from .Madison. It is not in order at present. The gentleman from Deer Lodge I'Mr. Reek" moves to amend Section 6 by striking out the first proviso up to and including the word "state." There is an amendment offered to this by the gentleman from Gallatin which the Chair is holding over at present. Mr. Bickford nf Missoula: I hope that the amendment offered by th(> g-entleman finm Deer Lodge will not prevail. It is certainly — (Inter- rupted . The President: 'I'here is another amendment pending. After that is disposed of the gentleman will have the floor. The Chair would sug- gest to the gentleman from Deer Lodge that if his amendment should prevail it would leave the amendment offered by the gentleman from Gallatin standing alone without any coherence, and hence the amendment would not be appropriate without cutting out a portion that has already been adopted. Mr. \\'arren of Silver Bow: If a few remarks are in order T would like to make them. Tlie President: The Chair will hear the gentleman in a few minutes. The Chair is waiting on an amendment which is being prepared. Mr. \\'arren of Silver Bnw: It strikes me that this Secfinn (i, as presented by the gentleman fi-om Beaverhead — Interrupted . Tlie Presidenl: The Chaii' desires to say to the gentleman that tli'> gentleman from Missoula is entitled to the floor. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I desire to have all the amendments before the convention before I make my remarks to the Chair, and if the gen- tleman wishes to proceed he may. .Mr. ^\■arren of Silver Bow: This section (i as presented by the gen- tleman from Beaverhead will have the effect. It will ha\e the effect, in my judgment, nf keeping every town in Deer Lodge County from being a candidate or receiving votes for the capital, and in the event that the city of Anaconda or the City of Deer Lodge should he chosen for the capital of the territory, in my judgment that would |)revent them from taking the capital. The President: The Chair would suggest that there has been a sub- stitute offered which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Strike out Section 6 and add to Section 1 the words: "Provided that not more than one of such institutions shall be located in any one coimty. and provided that none of such institutions shall be located in the county in which the capital shall be located, and none of such institutions shall be located until the permanent seat of government is fixed. The amendment was seconded. Mi-. Bickford of Missoula: I think the ol)jection raised by the gen- tleman from Silver Bow is met by the last amendment, and if the ameml- ment last id'fered is adopted, certainly there can be no plea made such as is advanced by him. that it would be impossible to locate tlie capital in the county of Deer Lodge. \\'hile the penitentiary 'is at present located in the coimty of Deer Lodge, it certainly remains a fact that under the provisions of this constitution the legislature will have the right to locale the penitentiary in any county in which it sees fit to locate it. It is not at the present time a state institution, but rather an institution under the guidance and direction, supervision and control of the ITnited States. It will be a state institution, of course, upon the adoption of this 862 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES constitution. It may become a statfi instilution. liut not one whit'li has been located by legislative authority. It is simply one which has been located by the authority of the Congress ot the United States. This is a matter of great importance. II is a matter of great importance (o the people of this territory becausr- Congress has bestowed upon the respective instilutiims mentioned in the jn'oviso a large amount of the public do- main. If the gentleman will refer to Section 17 — the latter part of Section 17 of the Omnibus Bill, it is there staled that there is donated to the State of Montana for the establishment and maintenance of a school of mines 100,000 acres, for State Normal Schools. 100,000 acres; for Agricul- tural Colleges, 50,000 acres; for the establishment of a State Reform School, 50,000 acres; for the estalilishment of a Deaf and Dumb Asylum, 50,000 acres; and for other public buildings, 150,000 acres. It will be simmi that there is a donation made not only foi' these schools and these public institutions, but tliere is also a donation for erecting the state buildings and the capitol. It seems to me that it would only be fair that there should be a distribution of this patronage to the different counties of the territory; that if one county receives the benefit of the capital and this donation of the lands, that another county will receive the benefit of another institution, perhaps one of learning — perhaps an agricult\u-al college. By so doing you place in the reach of the people living in the different sections of the country one or Ihe other of the stale institutions, cither the State Normal School, the Stale University, the School of Mines, or some other state institution. You place such an institution within the reach of all, and it seems reasonable that they should be distributed to the different parts of the state. It seems also that the different parts of the new state should receive the benefit of these donations. It is through the beneficence of Congress that we receive them. They are not made for any one particular county of Ihe territory; they are not made for any one particular locality, but they are made for the benefit of the entire territory; and the legislators who meet here hereafter can place these institutions where they will be for the best ad\antage of thi> people. It seems also that there should be a resti'iction placed upon the placing of more than one of these institutions in any one county. It is a reasonable supposition that the different counties in Ihe territory will be candidates for the location of these institutions; it is reasonable to suppose that they will want some of the instilutions located in different parts of the territory in order that they may be. above all things else, acceptable to the young people who will attend these schools. If we can, then, by passing the amendment or the jiroviso last offered fix it so that the legislature will be compelled to disti'ibute these institutions to the different parts of the state, it seems to me that we should do it. It seems reasonable that such a provision should be placed in our constitution. ^Ir. Knowles of Silver Bow; The donations of land here are for capi- tol piu'poses and for instilutions of leai'ning, and yet Ihe gentleman who has drawn up this bill has pul in iieiiilentiaries. so as to entirely exclude one of Ihe counties of this tei'ritoi-y from any of Ihe benefits or for being a canditiate for any of the benefits of this ari|>ropriafion of iiublic lands. 1 will say, if that is adopted, in relation to thai cciunty, that you cannot be a candidate for the benefits of any of these ajjpropriations of public lands whatever. That is my imdiM'standing of that as it is. Gentlemen may say that tlie penitentiary at Deer Lodge is not a public institution, but it will be upon the adoption of this constitution, and this constitution will T'elale to matters as they are at the time of the adoption of the constitution. I a satisfied that will be a stale instil utiou at that time. It will be turenri ovei' to the state and llien that will ]irechide and shut out that oiu' county from any of the benefits of the land. All the amendments leave in there that question of Ihe penitentiary, and leavinu in that r|uestion of t!ie Iicnilcnliai-y, you have by this coiivenliim said, as to this appropriation of iiublic lands, we will exclude in this constitution one of Ihe counties of the territory. If Ihe gentlemen here think thi'v can afford to do that let I hem go on. Mr. Bickford of Missoula; Is it not a fad that the iirovisn as read says ".\ny institution hereafter Id be located"? Mr. Knowles nf Silvei- Bow; Yes, but you have already in that bill, as it is inli-oduced, shut out the provisions of Ihe original bill. Mr. Bickford (d' Missoula: If I thought for one moment that it would prevent the couidy of Deer Lodge, lu' any other county of the territory. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION I88il 8{)3 from rereiving its proportion of ttip public lands appt'oprinli'il. I slionlil certainly vote against it. Mr. Knowles of Silver How: 1 say that in that original hill as pre- sented here there is this quest ion, so that it shuts out Di'm- Lodge, and the amendment of the gentleman does not cure that at all. It does not affect that matter in any way. shape, form or manner. There is some- thing as to the general bill tliat I would like to say. and that is that I believe it will be ten years before this capitol is located, and we will want normal schools in this territory before that time: and I am opposed to putting this thing all off until this capitol question is finally settled. I think we had better have no provisos to put in there looking to a future contest in relation to this matter. If you will just put in there a clause stating that none of these institutions that are specified shall he placed in more than one county or in the county where the capitol is estab- lished, il would cover the same idea that the gentleman wishes to get at, except penitentiaries. You put in penitentiaries there in such a way as to exclude the county of Deer Lodge. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin called for tlie reading of the substitute. The Clerk read the same. Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: I move that the substitute and all the amendments thereto be stricken out. The motion was seconded. The President: The motion is not in order. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I fully endorse what has been said by my friend from Silver Bow county. I think that every tub should stand on its own bottom in this particular, and I do not believe in making the establishment of a normal school or any other institution contingent upon a fight that may be gotten up here; and while I believe it is right that each coimty that merits it should have one of these institutions, and I am willing to give it the benefil of it. yet to say that no one of these institutions shall be located imtil after the capitol is located is a sentiment that I am not willing to endorse at all. I believe that the normal school should be located as soon as possible. There is another institution of vast importance here and that is a moral reform school: and I do not believe in holding the location of any of these institutions in abi'yance to the permanent location of the place where the distinguished statesmen of the territory are to meet and make laws for the people. I therefore hope that the gentleman's amendment will be modified, or that it will be voteil down. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: If I may obtain the consent of my second I will withdraw so much of my substitute as is included within the proviso, and that will tie simidx to strike ^lul Section (i and leave Section I in lieu thereof. The Pri'sident: Th'' mnlinu is not in order. The question now before the convention is upon the adoption of the substitute offered by the gen- tlemen, to which an aniendnn'nt is proposi'd by the- gentleman from Madi son. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: 'I'he only way to get at this matter is to vote upon the section and \ote it down. I do not believe for one moment that there is any gentleman here that desires to hamper any of the counties that desire to bid lor the capital or buildings, and I do not believe they intenil anything of that kind. It strikes me the proper thing to do is to vote it down and let this remain as it is. Section i covers the ground probably as fully as is necessary, and I have no doubt that any legislature that will meet here will be in favor of dividing those institutions up, one in each county. I hardly think there is any daniier or that we run any risk in leaving this matter to the legislature, and I think that Section I covers the f;rotmd fully enough so that any amendments are unnecessary: anil it seems to me the natural way to arrive at the matter is by voting the amendments and the section down. The President: The Chair will state to the gentleman and also to the gentleman from Gallatin that this substitute has been offin-ed as an amendment to tlie proposition. It has not been adopted yet. but it can be disposed of by voting upon it. Hence, the motion to strike it out will not be in order unless .you propose to substitute something in lieu thereof. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I move to strike out and insert. The President: There is a motion to ami'nd offered by the gentleman from Madison. 864 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Clerk read tlie amriKiiiieiit ol'lercij by the gentleman from Madi- son, as follows: Pnivided Lliaf no appropriation of money shall he made to erect capilol buildings [irior to the year I9(X). The amendment was seconded. The President: It is mo\ed and seconded that tlie amendment he adopted, that is, to strike out the substitute offered by the gentleman from Beaverhead and insert in lieu thereof this provision. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: There are too many amendmi>nts and sub- stitutes. The President: They are all now embodied in this one amendment. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: "J'he proposition to postpone the location of these public buildings until the permanent location of the seat of government is determini'd, I think is nothing but fair and .just. Here is nearly one-half of the territory lying bare beyond where I live, and it is as fine a mineral country and agricull\u-al country as any: and to locate these buildings now is taking advantage of all that part of the territory. Gentlemen hen' asserted that they did not wish to bar any county out of that privilege, and to locate it now or in a year or two would virtually be barring that whole half of the territory of this privi- lege. That part of it I am not in favor of. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i^ Clarke: I am very sure that there is no intention on the part of any fientieman of the convention to do the thing spoken of by my friend from Deer Lodge 'Mr. Toole), or to bar any county in the territory from competing for the capitol, or any other of these buildings. Now, we have made a pretty warm fight on this proposition, which has been ended, and if we have done so it is not because we did not recognize the right of every county in the territory to go befoi'e tlie people for this capital, and we don't want to put any handicap on them; and the reason why we made this fight so warm was because the pi'opli- put it here and the people ought to take it away. But when the people come to vote on it finally, we don't want any handicap put on any county or town. I did at one time think I would su|)port the proposition of my friend from Beaverhead because during the debate some accusa- tions were made here. It was said that we wanted not only the capital but all the other public buildings. That was the reason I wished to vote for the proposition: but I think I will vote to Icaxe the whole matter to the legislature and let them fix the matter up as they see fit — except as to the proposition of my friend Dr. Parberi-y. I am opposed to that. I don't care where this' capital is loc'aled. I do think that the men who climbed these mountains, crossed tlie plains and bravi^d the dangers of savage warfare in order to make way for those who came after should see the dome of this Sfijie House rise in the blue mountain air before they die: and consequently I think I shall be compelled to vote against the proposition of my friend from Meagher, that the proposition of the location of the capitol shall be postponed to a time that few of us will see. Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I move to take a recess tmtil ei<;lit o'clock. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I move we adjourn. The molion was seconded. The President: Before the motion is put the Chair desires to state the position of this question, so that the convention may understand it on reconvening. The Chair imderstands that the gentleman from Madison withdraws his amendment entirely. Now, the question befori^ the con- vention will be upon the substitute offered by the gentleman from Beaver- head, Mr. Witter. The question now is on the motion to adjourn. The Chair then put the question on the motion to adjourn, and the same was daclared carried. The ConviMition adjoiu-ned until Tuesda.\-. .\ugust 13. 1889. THIH'I Y-THinn DAY. TiicsdiiN, AiMfiist I3lh, 1SS9. The conxenlion was called In (inter li\ llie President nl lo A. M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: Mr. Dyer askeil to be excused. He is ill. It there be no objection be will be excused. The Chaidain offered prayi-r. The Clerk read the joui'ual id' Hie pi'evious day. CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVENTION 1889 865 Mr. Warren of Sihor Bow: We are approachinjr flie last h mrs ol" this convent iciii. and it stril^es me ttiat flie aiijiortionmiMit cbmniittee slioiild make tlieir report, instead of waiting until the very last hour. It is a matter that will require some attention and some thought, and I therefore move that the Chairman of the Committee on Apportionment he ri-quested to make his report tomorrow' morning. Mr. Cooper of (iallatin: The Committee on Apportionment will make their report [irobably tomorrow morning. The President: The Chairman of the Apiiortionnient Connnittee states that he will probably be able to make bis report tumorrow. The report of • he Irrigation Committee will now- be read. The Clei-k read as follows: Mr. President: Your Committee on Irri- gation, to whom Resolution No. 13 was referred, liave instructed me to report that they have duly considered the same and that they do not think it advisable to memorialize Congress on the subject of arid lands. Respectfully, (Signed) PARBERRY. Chairman. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis A: Clarke: The \isit of the senators here and other matters have somewhat changed Ihe situation, and I move thai the report of the committee be accejited and the matter laid mi the table. The motion was seconded. The Chair imt the question on the siiid nuitjon and Ihe same was declared carried. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I move that the convention now resolve itself into Conmiittee of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition No. 33. The President: That conies under the head of General Orders. We are under the head (d' "Unfinished Business" at present. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: In relation to some matters in regard to irrigation and the right of way for ditches, and the reservoirs, and the titles that Ihe government bad in all the mountain lands of the country, and the fad that they are misurveyed and are not likely to be surveyed very .soon, the Irrigation Committee recommended that this body memorialize Congress. As to the proposition that Ihere would be any arid lands appropriated to the Territory or given to any coriioration or com- pany that might be organized for tlie purpose of constructing ditches, they said Congress never would grant any more lands to corporations for any purpose. That was the settled policy of the government. As to w-hat they could do in relation to legislation on the subject of these lands themselves that might facilitate the matter of irrigation and of reclaiming arid lands, there could be something done, they said and that it would be good policy for this convention to memorialize Congress on this subject. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Then, Mr. President, if there is no objection. I w-ould ask unanimous consent to reconsider what we have done and re-refer the resolution of the committee so as to give them jurisdiction and let them draw- the memorial covering the branches sug- gested by Judge Knowles. I move that the matter be taken from the table. The motion was seconded. Mr. Kohrs of Deer Lodge: I think it would be better to leave that to the Legislature. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared lost. The CU-rk read the following conmiunication: Helena. Mont., August 12. 1889. Hon. W. A. Clark. President Constitu- tional Convention. Sir: I hereby tender my resignation as Assistant Ser- geant al-Ariiis. Ihe same to take effect todav. Very respectfully, W. L. GREENE. Assf. Sergeant-at-Arms. Mr. P.urleigh of Custer: I move the resignation be ai-ce|iti'd. The motion was seconded. The Chair jiut the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. ^^'arren of Silver Bow: Mr. Sargent of Silver Bow County would like to be excused until tomorrow. The President: The gentleman will be excused if there be no objec- tion. Under the head of unfinished business, the convention had under consideration Proposition No. 18. which is now- in order. Thi>re was an amendment offered by the gentleman from Beaverhead, and the question 800 pro(:kki)I.\(;s and debates was upon tln' adiii)li[' ihcin in the county in which the capital id' the Slate is located. The President: The following provision was added to tliat afterwards by the convention: Provided that no State institution shall be located until tiie capital of the State shall have been located. Mr. Burleigh of Ouster: I desire to ask if there is aiis pinNJsion tliere for the Legislature creating a reform school? Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I think the substitute or the anicndiinMil offered by the gentleman frimi (iallatin that was read for the infor'malion of the convention, would he more satisfactory, after the discussion of the matter that was had yesterday. The President: Thei'e w'as an amendment offered by I lie ^'l■ntlema^ from Gallatin, Mr. Haifman. which will now be read. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I think it obviates the difficullii's thai we encountered yesterday. The Clerk read as follows: Add to Section 1 the following: Proxidi'd that no more than one of said institutions may be localr-d in any one county in tlie State, and no one thereof shall be located in the cnunly where the capital is situated; Provided, further, that the present location of the penitentiary in t~)eer Lodge County shall not bar said comity fi-oni having located within its limits any other State institution. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I move the adoption of the amendment, virtually striking out Section 0 and adding that as a proviso to Section I. The President: Section 0 has not been adopted yet. The question now before the convention is upon the adoption of Section 0. this amend- ment offered in the way of a substitute. Mr. Hartman of (iallatin: This is an amendment Id Mi'. Witters amendment. Mr. Middleton of (^.uslei': II 1 understand the reading of tliat correctly, although in the oidset it provides that not more than one of these institu- tions shall be established in any one county, the proviso afterwards takes the county of Deer Lodge out, and from the reading of il, leaxes the impression on my mind that all of these institutions might be established in the county of Deer Lodge. The Clerk I'e-read the amendment for the information of the cduv en- lion. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: It seems lo me il would be belter not lo make any amendment. It seems to me iierfectly s;ife to leave Ibis matter to the Legislature and let them regulate it. It may be very desirable, it seems to me, as matters may turn out, that more than one of these institutions sliould be located in one county. The relations lielween I hem would he a great deal belter for the State if they wer'o located near each other, and in reference lo all these matters it seems to me that the matter could t)e left to the Legislature lo refiulate it as it may see fit. So far as I am concerned, I am oppd by law." I Ibiidv thai as this proxision stands, that would lea\-e the T,egislMlure lo i-i'^zulale Ibis mailer without restricliu;: theni in any way. 1 do nol lbiid< llie\ oughl to be i-i-stricted until Ihe time Ihe capital is permanently Incaled. II may be desirable to locale them bel'iire that time, and I am upposed lo all Ihese ami'ndmenis and all these subslilules. and I aio in laMir ol' lea\ iiig the malter as iirovidi-d for in that sectidu. Mi-. Burleigh of (Tusler: I agi-ee fully with what has been said b\ the learned gi'iilleman from Silver Bow County, and as I said yesli'rday. lo liefer this mailer by any provision in Ibis conslilulioii seems Id me would be unwise. We do not know how soon Ihe Legislatun' would deem CONSTriLTIONAL C.ONVE.NTION 1889 867 it expedient to locate some om- ol these institutions, and 1 think it would be safe to leave this matter to the I.esisl;itnre I'rcsh from the people and let them take eare of it. Mr-. Whitehill of Deer Lodt-'e: I agree with the gentleman from Silver Bow. .Mr. D'ixon. I think tln'ie is no doubt the convention can scatter these institutions oxer tlie country. Now, it. seems as though this was in the interest of the small counties: it seiMiis as though the little counties were being afraid. To be sure, this con\enlion could go on and locate each one of these institutions through the different counties, there may in the future arise some contingency wliercby we would not eai-e to have them located just as the members of this eonxention would like to have them located, and I think we ought to be willing to trust the Legislature to arrange these counties and lorate these different institutions as thf necessity arises. I don't think there will be any disposition to filch any of them riut of their just rights, in this matter. I think Section 1 covers the ground fully. It provides that the Legislature shall whenever the necessity arises, locate each one of these institutions wherever the people of this Territory, or the members of the Legislature at that time, may think the proper place for it. and that then would be the proper time to locate them and not now. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Thei-e is one other point that has not been noticed in relation to this provision of the constitution, and tliat is the words, "other institutions of learning". -other State institutions. Now. it is diffieult to say what other State institutions we may wish to establish in time, and it may be that some of these institutions that we would wish to establish ought to be connected with the State university. For instanpe, there might be such a thing as a medical sehool established in Montana, and if so, it ought to have some connection, in my judgment, with the State university. Lecturers in colleges who are sometimes employed in one department and sometimes in another, and where we have that pro- vision "other institutions of learning", in my judgment, we ought to leave it to the Legislature to provide where those institutions shall be estab- lished. .\ few weeks ago I saw an article written by one of the Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States upon Towa. and he takes occasion in that article to criticise the action of the Methodist church that is so called in that State, for having divided the State into four sections and establishing four institutions of learning in that State, none of which are prosperous and none of which take any rank as such institu- tions ought: and when v,e establish a State university we ought to estab- lish a university. Now. of course the Deaf and Dumb .\sylum or a Reformatory School and such matters as that, having nothing to do with the Lniversity. but there may be institutions and public institutions that ought to be connected with this university, and make one good university — one that is entitled to the claim of a university — is worth half a dozen insignificant ones. I trust that when !\Iontana establishes a universitv that it. will have the right to place thi-re everything that should pertain to a university: and as this section stands now. why. I feel confident that there ought to be no proviso put in there, leaving it to the Legislature to decide according to the facts as they may be presented to them at that time. \\'e have not all of the facts that may arise in the history of Montana: other facts may arise in the history of Montana that will control the action of a legislative body, that are not presented to ns now, and T tiust that section will be left just where it is. Give power to the Legislature to provide for these institutions, and that is all we want. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: In the line of the gentleman's remarks. I would state that that is substantially the report of the com- mittee, and that is the reason instead of having a Board of Regents we confined them all under one Eilm-ational Board, because it was shown in other States where they established these technical and other schools that they encroached upon the domain of each other. If it should be found advisable to give dignity and power and repvilation and efficiency to the university, the committee were of the opinion that they should be in one place, and I fully agree with my friend. Judge Knowles. in this that they should all be in one place. Mr. Reek of Deer Lodge: I would like to say that the institution of Ann .\rbor. Michigan, is one of the finest institutions in the United States of the kind, and I understand they have there many of these different branches, which it seems is the disposition to scatter over the Territory, Now, if there is a law school established at the TTnixersitv, I think they 8i>8 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES shoukl bfilli be in one iihici'. IT this anifiidnii'iit pi-ovails il will pri'dudr the possibility of ostalilisliiiif,' many of thfsc iiraiiclips in thi' samo town, and I hopp it will not pi-cvail. Thp Prf'sident: Tho qiiostion is upun tbc adoptimi of the substitute offpred by Mr. Hartman of (iailalin. Tlip Chair put thp qupstion on llip ado]iti(in of llip substitute offered by the pentleman from Gallatin, .Mi'. Hartman. and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The President: The question now is upon the adoption of the section offered by the gentleman from Beaverhead, Mr. Witter. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Beaverhead, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move that Projiosition No. 18 be now placed upon its final passage. Mr. Schmidt of Silver Bow: I move to strike o\it Section '>. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question cin the motion of the f^cntleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Schmidt, and a di\ision being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of 27 in the affirmative to 2i in the negative. Mr. i. R.- Toole of Deer Lodge: If the provision of Section 2 was adopted, and it was the sense of this convention that the Legislative Assembly should provide by law for an election to fix the capital, if it is possible now I should like to have such an expi-ession of the conven- tion as to whether that yould tie deemed advisable or not. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis and Clarke: The convention vnted rm that pEoposition twice, and the motion was lost both times. The President: That was adopted in amendment oircrcd sdine days ago. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I nnderstdoil it wns inilicalpd that the first Legislature should provide by law. The Chair requested the Clerk to read the section as it stood. The Clerk read same. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I believe that covers tlie t;round I was aiming at, that the next Legislature would provide for the sub- mission. The President: The question now is upon the mnlion of the j;entli'nian from Silver Bow, Mr. Wari'.'ii, t" place Pi'opositinii Nn. 18 as amcndpd on its final passage. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I liope thi-; will not be done. I tliink it is a dangerous precedent we have established for putting a pi'upusition on its final passage whei'c several amendments are made, and Ihm it coi's to the Enrolling Committee and nn Ri'vision. The probabilities are that tliere will be mistakes. 11 seems to me the proposition should be engrossed and submitted U poor of several counties. I voted in the affirmative upon the motion lo strike out that proposition, and at that time it did not occur to me that suidi a view would be taken. I desii'e to move that tlie motion li\ which Section 5 was stricken out hi' recon- sidered. Mi>. (eiddai'd of ^(■llo\^■slone: II oecnrs lo me thai the l.ei^i-latiil'p would lia\c llial anllioi-ily willioot a pro\ Ision of this kind in the eon- s I II u I i 1 1 n . Mr. Knowles of Silver How: 1 will say this, that if IIomt is any dam:er of this fii'st section receiviTig the construction lliat lias 1 n slated hc're. tliat there ought to be an exception put in liiat section. Tliis Section No. ^> that they ha\e here would not be any limilalion upon the first seeljon. Now. Seclion '< iieilhei' limits the power id' the I, egislat i\('- Assembly in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVF.MH )N ISS'.i 8G9 any inaiuu'r whali'vi'r. nm- ilm's it locati' I he imwer of tlii' i:rnrial j^hnci-ii- menl. nor docs it j/raiil any puwi'r Ui tlir firiieral y:(ivi'rmiii'iil. II is a provision ln're in relation to the several countii's of the State, that the several counties of the State may do cectain things, as though we were liere forming a eonstitutioii and granting the counties of the Stale certain powers. Well. now. we don't want to |)ut anything of the kind in Ihe constitution. If it is thought that lliat would have the effect — and there might ill' some question about il, that provision here ought to be jiut in this — "such other public institutions as the public may require, except such as poor houses and county farms.'" and such matters as thai. If it is thought that this first section hei-e, which certainly was not intended to be anything of the kinil — "Educational, reformatory and penal institu- tions, and those for Ihe benefit, of tlie insane, blind, deaf and nnile and sucli other institution as the jiublic good may i-equire shall be (>s|;dilished and supported by the State in such manner as may be prescribed by law."' Now. as to the words, "'such other instilutions."' I was under the imin'essiim that referred to educational institutions and such institutions as that, and that what we call a poor farm and a poor house was not an institution. It would never be consiilered usually a state institution, but if it is. we don't want it in that section here, because that Section 5 neilher gi'ants any power to the Stale nor restricts any power of the State. Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: .Mr. President. I notice that the Reverend Dr. Talmage is in the gallery, and I move that this convention extend the privileges of the floor to the ^enlleman and his party. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved thai Ihe Reverend L)r. Talmage and his party be invitetl to the privileges of the floor of the convention. The Chair put the question on Ihe motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Major .Maginnis. and a xote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Chair appoint Honorablr Marl in Mai;innis to escort the gentleman to the floor. The question is upon the molidii to reconsider llie vole liy which Section No. 5 was stricken out. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I am opposed to this motion prevailing. I voted to strike this Section •", nut for Ihe reason that it is ununecessary to have tliat in the constilution. Iiider the general police powers of the State, without any clause being inserted- in this constitution save for thai purpose, we have the right to make all the provisions necessary that are pi'o\ ided for in this Section ."J. and lieing unnecessary in the constitution I voted to strike it out. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: II seems In me. sir. that this is a power which rests originally with the people, and I shall support the motion of the gentleman to strike out this Section ."J. for the reason that it neither adds to nor takes from Ihe Legislature the power to do that which is prescribed. ■The prescription here that they shall do it is not binding on the Legisla- ture, in my judgment. There is certainly nothing in Section 1 thai limits the power of the Legislature to provide for its poor and infirm. I think it is a power which is inherent in the people, and the humanity of the people has always been such as to look after their own poor and suffer- ing, and they will continue to do so unless there is something in this constitution to prevent it. I shall therefore support Ihe motion to strike out. Mr. \\'hitehill of Deer Lodge: The members of this convention will i-emember Ihat when this section was up before, I had inserted in the section the words "Soldiers' Home" for the reason that one State had decided that vinless that provision was in this original section — this first section — that that would come under Section 5. and for that very reason they decided that an act of the Legislature providing that a soldiers' home was an institution that should be provided for by the Stale, aiirl that by reason of Section 5 it was unconstitulional and Ihe act of the Legislature was set aside by the Supreme Court. .Now, this Section -5 provides that the county paupers, in short, shall be supported by the respective counties. Section 1 provides "and such other institutions as the public good may I'cquire." Now. all institutions that the public good may require, as we have it now, shall be supiiorted by the State, to be sure. This is a matter which we can fix here by this constitution, and although it does not negative the power of the Legislature, eventually it is a limitation upon the power of the Legislature so that they cannot pass an act contrary to «70 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Siclidu I, whiTciii it is pnivitlofi dial the Slate must support all these public institutions. Now, as Judge Knowles says, if there wei-e an excep- tion in there then it would he all right? Now, I say this Section 5 is just and should not be stricken out. II' we evei' go into court to decide this mallei', the court will decide I hat the counties are relieved from suppoi't- in.i.' Ihcij' own paupers, and these paviiiers must he provided for in insti- tutions supported by the Stale, '{"hat is the reason I have asked these ju(nlli'men who have voted in the arrirmali\e to have it reconsidered, and I don't believe it has been fully discussed. 'The result of this will be if Section 5 was stricken out that comity paupers will be supixirted in State institutions. 1 think the action in strikitig out Section 7 was hasty and ought to be reconsidereij, arid Section 13 should be left in just as it is. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin; In order to bring this matter squarely liefore the convention. 1 move to amend Section 1 by adding t herein. The President: The motion will not he in order. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: It seems to nie that Ihe provisions con- tained in Section 5 are intended simply as a limitation upon the almost universal power conferred in Section 1 of this article. It should not be a limitation upon the powers of the people, but it is a limitation to Section I, and changes the rule so far as the establishment of county poor houses is concerned. Therefore, I think if Section 5 is stricken out that there should be inserted in Section 1 a limitation upon that section itself, so that the State would not he called upon under Section I to support county pooi' houses. If you could insert "except county poor houses'' the diffi- culty apprehended by the gentleman from Deer Lodge, who has just spoken, would be made, and Ihe objections of the gentleman from Silver Bow would also be made, because then it would be such a limitation upon the power of the Legislature, or upon the duty of general State government as you contemplate by the article generally, and that is that cei'tain institutions shall be supported by the State, and that the county poor houses shall be supported by the county. The President: The question now is upon the motion to reconsider the vote by which Section 5 was stricken out. The Chair put the qLiestion on the said motion and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I move that Proposition No. 18 as amended be put upon its final passage. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: In the wording of Section 2 I notice that the election is provided for in 1892, and as we are going to pass this without having it printed, which t think is hardly ni^cessary. in order to get the sense of the convention once more, I mo\e to strike out 1892 and insert 181)0. Mr. J. K. Toole ot Lewis & Clarke: I object l.i thai, Mr, President, that is not in order. The President: .\n amendment to that section is not in order: it was adfipted and on motion to reconsider was laid upon Ihe table. The motion is not in order except by unanimous consent. Tiie question now is ujion the motion to adopt Proposition No. 18. The ayes and nays will be eiitereil on Ihe iournal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .■\yes: Aiken, Bickford. Rrazleton, Breen, Brownie, Buford, Bollard, Burleigh, Burns, .\. P.; Burns, .\. .!.: Callaway, Cardwell. Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Collins, Conrad, Cooper, Craven, Eaton, l''ields, (iibsoii, Cillette, Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Hartman, Herslifield, Hickman. Hobson, ,Ioy, Joyes, Kanouse, Kennedy, Loud, Luce, Maginnis, Marrioii, Mai'shall, May- ger, McAdow, Middlelon, Mitchell, Muth, Mvers, Parberrv, Reek, Robinson, RolwitI, Toole. Jos. K.: Watson, Witter, Mr. Presiilent— .">:!. .Nays: Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Hatch, Hogaii, Knowles. Kolirs. SclnnidI, Stapleton," Toole, J. R.: Warren. Whilehill. Winston— 13. .MisenI: Burns. K.: Dyei'. (iaylord. Haskell, Knippenberg, Ramsdell, llickards, Sargent, Webster— i). Tlie Chair announced tlu' \o(e and declared the nietion lo aiiopt I'r'oiiosition No. 18 carried and the proposition adopted. Mr. J. K. Tool(> of Lewis & Clarke: I move to reconsider the vote by which Ihat proposition was adopted, and I move to lay that motion on the table. '{'he mot inn was seconded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 871 The Chair put the que!>tion on the nintion of the frentlcmaii from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Toole, and a vote beinf.' taken the same was d'M-lared carried. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis l;ht fnllowiiif; the I'aiHtal question. Mr. Callaway of Madison: .\s a matter id' fad and of parliamentary iwactice, I wonld like to ask of the presidinj;- officer what aulhoi'ity has Ihis convention over the Committee of the Whole to yive il any orders or any directions? The Comniiltee of the Whole. I contend, as an author- ized body, has a right to do anything it pleases, no matter what it please.s, and I am of the opinion of the gentleman from Cascade that we have a right to go into Committee of the NN'hole and take up any of these propositions. The Chair would inform tlie gentleman trnin Madison that Ihe con- vention has a right to instruct any commitler, ihe Committee of the Whole as well as any other committee. Mr. Luce of (iallatin: I heard no objection to the motion offered by the gentleman from Park County, that the convention reconsider the vote by which this matter was placed at Ihe foot of the calendar. The President: Objection was made to the reconsideration. .Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: If a motion to suspend the rules is in order. I move the conveidioii thai we suspend the r'ules, and let the convention proceed tlion to take up the General Order of business instead of going into Committee of the Whole. It seems under the rules of the conven- tion that it serves no purpose whatever to go into Committee of the 'Whole hut to delay lime, and if we have to go into Committee of the Wholi' and go over everything again in the convention after discussing it in Committee of the ^^'hole: it lakes double time and serves no purpose whatever, except to delay our action. The President: If the gentleman will yield his motion the l^hair will slate the motion of the gentleman fi-om Cascade. The Chair staled the motion. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I desire to second the motion of the gentle- man from Cascade, that this convention now I'esolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of General File. Mr. Witter of Beavi'rhead:. Before we go into (jommittee of the \\'hole. I would ask what was done with Proposition No. 38 The President: The Clerk informs Ihe Chair tiiat the proposition has been printed and disli'ibuted, and is on tlie desks of the members at pi'csenl. The question before the comenlion is that the convention do now I'esolve itself into Committee of Ihe Whole lor llii> consideraliou of (ieneral File. The Chair put Ihi' question on the said motion, and a \ote being taken the same was dei'lared carried. Tile I'resideiit called .Mr. Collins of Cascade In Ihi' Chair'. IN COM.MITTEE OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Collins of Cascade in the Chair. The commillee was called to order. The (Ihaii'man: The committee have under considi'ralion the (ieneral l-'ile. What is lh(> pleasure of the committee? Mr. Kanouse of .Meaghei': I move that the I'ommitlee take up l>riipo- silion No. .'i'f, found al the foot of the calendar. CONS rill llilXAI. I'.O.WKN riOX 1H89 873 Mr. Miililli'liMi of Cuslcr: 1 cili.ji-ft to it for tlip rpasnii thai Wv coii- v.Milioii has iiisliiicti'd this ciiiiiiniili'c that this matter should ho placed al the lout (d' the ealeiular. The (inly way it can be reached in Committee (d the Whole at this time is hy taking up each of the other matters on Hie calendar and postpnning their consideration until this can be reached. The Chairman: The Chair would state that the proposition was placed at the foot id' I he calendai'. Iiul is not at the foot of the calendai- now. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Meagher. Mr. Kanouse. and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Section 1 of Proposition No. 33. ■J"he Clerk read Section 1 of Proposition 33 as follows: "Ordinances. He it ordained: First. That an election sliall he held throughout the Stale of Montana on the First Tuesday of Octobei-. for the ratification or rejection of the constitution framed and adopted by this convention." There being no amendment to Section I, the Clerk read Section 2, as follows: "Second. .\t said election the constitution framed and adoiiteil hy this convention shall be submitted to the people of the State for their ratification or rejection, and all persons who are then qualified electors under the laws olf this Territory shall be qualified to vote for the ratifi- cation or rejection thereof." There being no amendment to Section 2, the Clerk read Section 3 as follows: "Third. Said elections shall be 'held at the several places in the se\eral wants and precincts Ihronghout the Territory appointed for the holding of elections under the laws of this Territory, and shall be conducted in the manner presci-ibed liy the laws of this Tei'ritory regulat- ing elections. The Board of County Commissioners of the several counties of this Territory shall appoint judges and clerks of such election in each of said wards and precincts in the same manner as is now required by law for the appointment of judges anrl clerks of general elections in this Territory." 'I'here being no amendment to Section 3. the Clerk read Section 4 as lollows: Fourth. Each elector voting at said election shall have written or printed upon the ticket he may deposit in the ballot box the words "for the constitution" or "against the constitution", or other equivalent words. There being no amendment to Section 1. the Clerk read Section .j as follows: "Fifth, The vqtes cast at said idection for the adoption or rejec- tion of said constitution shall he canvassed not later than fifteen days after said election, or sooner, if the returns from all of the precincts .'-'hall have been received and in the manner prescribed by the laws of the Territory of Montana for canvassiu'j the votes at general elections in said 'lei'ritoi'y. and the returns of said eleclion shall he made to the Seci'etaiy of the Territory: and the (iovernor, the Secretary, Auditor anil .MIorney (ieneral of the Territory anrl •the Pi-esident of this convention, or a majority of them shall constitute a Hoard of Canvassers, who shall n.eet at the office of the Secretary of the Territory on the thirtieth day after the election, and canvass the voles so cast and declare the result." Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge sent up an amendment. The Clerk read as follows: .Xmend Section o by striking out of lines 5 and 6 the word "and" and the w-ords. "Secretary, Auditor anii .Mloinev General" and the words "and the President of this convention" anil insei-f ir lieu thereof after the word "Territory" on line 5 the words "who with" and after the word "governor" add "and the Chief .Tustice." Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I move the adoption of that amendmetd. 'l"he motion was seconded. 'I'he Chair stated the motion. Ml'. Robinson of Deer Lodge: This is just simplv in accordance with the Knabling Act. Til.' Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman fi'om Dee;- Lodge. Mr. Robinson, and a vote being taken the same was declared cr.rried. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: T move that we turn back to Section 2 and strike out the word "State" and insei-t "Teri'ifoi'y". '\\'e are not a Slate \mlil after the matter is voted upon. The motion was seconded. 874 PROGEEDINdS AM) DEBATES Tile (Muiii- [jul llie i|ui'sli(iii III! tli(> nintion i»r Iho ^cntlcinan from CuslcM'. Mr. Hurleifili, and ,i \i<\r hi-iii^' laken tho sanic was declared carried. ^Ir. Robinson oi' l>eer Lodge: In order to make it in liarmony with tlinl, 1 nio\e to strike out the wui-d "Stale" on the first line of Section first. The Chairman: 'J'he wni'd will lie stricken out if there be no objec- tiiin. Mr. Whilehill of Deei' Lodge: I move to strike out in Section 4 the woi'ds "or other equivalent words". The reason I make that is that it can be printed "for the constitution" or "against the constitution", and if those words "or other equivaleni words" are left in there, there will be half a dozen modes of expressing that idea. So I ask that the words be sh'icken out. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Deer Lodye, I\Ir. \Miitehill, and a vote being taken the same was declared cari'iod. Mr. Craven of Lewis iS; Clarke: I move the unanimous consent to re! urn to Section 1 for th(> purpose of amendment. I think the words "1892" should be in line 2 alter the word "October". There is no year designated. I offer a motion to Ihat effect. The motion was seconded. 'J'he Chair put the question nn Ilic motion of Ihc gentli'iiian from [jcwis & Clarke, and a vote being laken the same was declared carried. Mr. Marshall of .Missoula: Hrfore we go to Section 0. I move to amend Section 5 on the last line liy inserting "or before" after the word "on", so that the Board of Canvassers shall meet at tlie office of the Secrelary of the Territory on or ludnri' (lie Ihirtiefh day afler the ideclion. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question mi the molion of the gentleman from Missoula, Mr. Marshall, and a \ and 5 the following, "for each nf (he Judicial Districts established by this constitution." and inserting the following, "in and for each county of the State." Mr. IjUce of (iailalin: I move the adnplinn of Iht^ aincndrncnl. 'I'he motion was seconded. Th(> Chair put the question (ui llie nidlion of the gmtliMnan from < Iailalin, Mr. Luce, and a vote being taken Uie same was dindai'dl iMi'ried. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clai'ke sent up an amendment. The Clerk read as follows: Inseil on first line in Srclinn (1 aftci' llie word "October" the words "in the year 1889". The Chairman: If (here be no objection th(^se words will be inserted. Mr. Mc.Vdow of Fergus: I move to insert the word "Stale" befori' lhl^ word "Superinlenilent" in line 3. The motion was seconded. 'I'lii' Chair put (be' question on Ihc motion of the gentleman from t'ergus. Ml'. .Mc.Vdnw, and a vol(^ being t.iken the same was declai'ed carried, Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I'ropusitii'o .Nii. (!, which I introduced. I believe was -by order of the convention ordered to be consid(>red with rliis priiposil ion. I ask to have it read befoi'e Section 7. riic Chairman: Section 7 and thi' resolution offered liy tin' gentl(>- man frdni Ycllowslnne will now be read. Section 7 will br read I'irsl. and I ben the res(dution of the gentleman from Yellowstone. ■file Clerk read Section 7 as follows: "Seventh, That notice for sui'h eleclion t'oi' Slate, County and Township officers, shall be gi\en by lli(> CONSTITlTKi.N AI. C.o.WKNlKiX 1889 875 sfVPial Boards of ('.miiity (^iiinmis^iniii'rs in the same manni'i' as milicps of jri'iieral eU'ctions for ilolc.^atPs to Congross. and counly offici-rs under the now existing laws of the Territory, and such election shall be con- dueled and lield and the voles canvassed in the same manner as proxided li\ law for territorial officers, and all State, county ami township officcirs shall qualify and enter upon the discharge of their dulies as sucli on the firs! Monday of January following such election." Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I move lo have Hie resolutinn read. and that it be added to Section 6. The Clerk read as follows: ''.Ml county and precinct officei-s who ma\' be in office at tlie time of the adoption of this constitution shall liold their respeclive offices for the full term for which they may have been elected, and until such time as their successors may" be elected and iiualify in accordance wilh the provisions of this constitution and the laws now in force: and the official bonds of such officers shall conlinue in full force and effect as though this constitution had not been adopted." Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I wish to say that that provides for all county officers: I wish to amend that so as to except Probate Judges. If I he Clerk will write in tliere after "counly officers" "except I'roliate Judges": I ask that it be added to Section 6. Ml'. Luce of Gallatin: I offer an amendment. Ml-. Knowles of Silver Bow: .Aannlher officer that ought to he excepted is the Treasurer. .\11 the laws that provide for settlements of the County Treasurer provide for llie settlements in March, and if we adopt Ihose la^^"s. there ought to be an exception as lo the Covinty Treas- urer. The Cliairman: I would state to the gentleman from Silver Bow that the settlemenis are made quarterly. The reason that the pirincipal settle- ment with the Treasurer was made in March was because the new county officers went into existence early. Xow, they don"t go into existence until the first Monday in January. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: There is no ob.jection to that except the one office of County Treasurer, and if you will examine the statutes of the Territory it provides Ihat the time the County Treasurer goes out of office is the second Monday in March. I am not sure but the law provides for a settlement witli the Oiunty Treasurer before he goes out on the March term of the County Commissioners, and we will. T suppose, adopt 'hose laws as our laws. Well, now, if you make the County Treas- urer go out of office in January, why. the settlement that he makes will he with his successor in office, and then his successor in office will have to make this settlement on the first Monday in March. I would like to insert in there "except Countv Ti-easurers". The Probate Judge will he abolished anyhow. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I will accept the gentleman's amend- ment, r will just say to the gentleman that the term of the office of the Treasurer does not expire until iVIarch anyhow. This resolution pro- vidr's that they shall hold their office for- the full time for which they were elected. The Chairman: The question before the committee is upon the motion of the gentleman from Yellowstone, that his resolution be adopted. 'Che Clerk read the resolution for the information of the committee. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Yellowstone. Mr. Goddard, and a diN ision being called for the same was declared carried by a vote of 31 in the affirmative to 30 in the negati\e. .Mr. ^taginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I call for tellers on that count. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Let it go into Ihe convention and cmiside'- it b\ ayes and nays. The Chairman: The conmiiffee will now consider Section 7. The Clerk read Section 7 as follows: "Seventh. That notice for such eleetion. for Stale, county and township officers, shall he given by the se\eral Roai'ds of County Commissioners in the same manner as notices of general elections for delegate to Congress and county officers under the now existing laws of the Territory ami such election shall be con- ducted and held and the xntci canvassed in Ihe same manner as provided by law for territorial officers, and all Stale, county and township officers shall qualify and enter upon the disidiarge of their duties as such on the first Monday of Januai'v following such elei-tion." 1 KM IN )' '/. •iki' mil llic wiin 1 "I- Diiiity" am! :i Isn ill Ihi' lillll lillr nl ■ Seel inn 7. .S7r, I'HOCKHDlNdS AM) I )KB.\TKS Ml. linrl.'iL'li 111' Cnsli'i- ill the first liiii' nl' Si'i'timi 7 The million \v;is si'i'iniilnl. The Chairman: 'rhen- is a nmliiin mi the lahle from the Ki'ul'pinan Irnm (iallatin, Mr. Luce, whiih will lie read by the Clerk. 'I'he Clerk reail as follows: 'Wmeiid Section 7 by striking out the words 'county and townsiiip in lines 1 and 5". Offered by Liico. Mr. Luce of (Tallatin: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconiled. .Mr. Luce of (iallatin: I will slate my leasnns for this, and tliat is to make it consistent with Section (J that has just been passed and amended. There is no provision in that section as now amended for (he election of any county or lownship officers, as I understand it, and Section 6 provides what officers shall be elected. It just sinifily makes it consistent -with what has been done. I shall consider that the (>lerk of a district court is a county officer. That si'ems to be a State institu- tion rather than a county institution, and I think that to make the two sections consistent those wdrds ought to be stricken out. i'he Chair put the queslion on the motion of the gentleman from (lallatin, Mr. Luce, a.nd a di\ision being called for the same was declared lost by a vote of 31 in the alfirinatixe to 32 in the negative. Mr. Kno'wles of Silver Bow: I move that after the word "county" in line .5 there be inserted the words "except County 'I'reasiirers." The motion was seconded, J'lie Chair stated the molioii. Mr. Clark of Silver Bow: I Hunk the \iews nl' nu cnlleague are quite cnrrect on that proposition. .\nw, during the monlh of Decembei' is the time in which the taxes are paid, all through the month of IJecem- bev, I'lie iluties of the t;ouiil> Treasurer are \ery onerous, hence I think it right to postpone that until March, Mr. Bickford of Missoula: 1 would suggest to the gentlenian from Silver Bow that the section would read tietter if the amenitment were placed after the W'Ord "officer" in line :>. It would then read "for terri- torial officers and all Stati\ cniinl.x- and Inwnship officers, except County Treasurers shall qualify," etc. ".li-. Knowles of Silvei- Bnw: 1 accept the amendment of the gentle- man. Ihe Chair (lUt the queslion nii the niolinu of the genlleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Knowles, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & tUarke sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke offers Iho. foHowina amendment: Strike out Ihe word "such" and insert the w'ord "the" on line 1 of Section 7, and after Ihe word "officers" insert the words "whose election is provided for by tlie pi-eceding section." The motion was seconded. .Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I offm- that as an amendment to I'emove any ambiguity. That is the simple object of the amendmeni, to remo\'e the ambiguity. The Chair [lUt the question nii Ihe motion of Ihe gentleman from Lewis (.V Clarke, Mr. Cai'penler, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to Section 7, Ihe Clerk read Section 8 as follo'ws: "Eighth, That iierfect toleration of religious senti- ment shall be secun-d, and that no inhabitant of the State of Mnnlaiia shall ever be molested in person or prnperly. nn account nf his nr her mode of religious w'orship." .Mr. .loy of Pari:: In view of the fact thai the idea of this paragrap'i is fully provided for in S(>ction 4, General File No. I of the Bill of Higlils. whicdi reads that "the free (>xercise and enjoyment of religions profession and worship without^ disci'imination shall fnre\er herrafler be giiaran- leeil." ! mo\ e that the section be stricken out. The motion was seconded. Till' Chair stated the motion. Mr. llartinaii of Oallalin: Befoi'e any action is taken by this Com- milli f Ihe Whole on that proposition, I desire to call attention to the lad llial tlial section, and Sections 9, 10, II and 12 are taken M'rlialini from Ihe Enabling Act, and that when we joroceed here In interfere with Mil' language that is containi'd in one of those sectiniis, we interfere CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 877 with liial wliit-h is requiivd by the f'.uabliug Act. and 1 iJi-etend to say that all such interference as that would imperil our chances of becoming a Male, and I hope that not one sinsle word will be disturbed in one of those sections. It is drawn in accordance with the Enabling Act. and we will make a mistake if we disturb it. Ah. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: There may be that language used in the Enabling Act. but I think the people of Montana are luianimous in one respect, and also the courts of the United States are unanimous in the same respect, that is, in regard to the prohibition of this :\Iormon sentiment or religion. Now. for some time, for some time past, we all kuipw that prosecution has been laid against people in Salt Lake City wh( practice this .Mormon religion, for unlawful cohabitation. Now, if we pass this section in the words here, the question will arise hereafter will liter or not any person practicing iiolygamy in Montana would be liable tor prosecution, and by referring to Section i of the Enabling Act you will see tliat it has guaranteed the free exercise of religious profes-, sion and worship. Now. that is all that is required of us by the Enabling Act. We go on further and say "without discrimination, shall be forever hereatter guaranteed." Mi-. Hartman of Gallatin: I want to call attention to this fact, that the language of Section 4 reads "and Slate conventions shall provide by ordmance. irrevocably without the consent of the United States and the peir],i,' of said State." This is done by an ordinance. Mr. ^^"hitehill of Deer Lodge: If the convention shall provide, then I say move to amend that section in the ordinance by inserting what we have in the Bill of Rights. This question was not discussed very fully ir cimvention. but it was discussed in the committee which framed this Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights says "But the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirma- lions. excuse acts of licentiousness, by bigamous or polygamous marriage." Now. in order to make this consistent it must be in the ordinance. Then. I say it ought to be amended to conform to Section 4. which we have already adopted, by inserting in ther(> that it will not excuse acts of iu-entiousness by bigamo\is or polygamous marriage. If we pass this seidion as it is now here, it will be in direct conflict with Section i of the Bill of Rights which we have already adopted: and that is the objec- tion I make to it, that it does not exclude these polygamous contracts of the Mormon: and I think under the Edmunds Bill the government of the United States is in perfect harmony, that is, in that respect, and we do not propose to encourage polygamy here, and allow the Mormons to come here and practice their religion as thej' do in Utah. If this is adopted I don't see anything to prevent the adoption of that system of religion or practice here. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I want to ask if the general expression, the words "religious sentiment" can he construed to permit polygamous mar- riages. Is that a sentiment? Mr. Whitehill of Deer Lodge: I think it would. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I Ihink it is already provided for in the Bill of Rights that this religioiis toleration shall not excuse polygamous rites. The Enabling Act requires us to have this. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis .t Clarke: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the gentlemen in their statements have omitted to read carefully the different sections which provide for religious liberty in the Bill of Rights, anti those in Proposition 38. One is in the protection of the religious rights, and the other is in tlie pi'otection of their property — "the perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured." There is an omission there which does not exist as an omission in the Bill of Rights. The other is merely a protection of relii:ious rights. I think the section ought to remain. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: As to perfect toleration of religious sentiment. I don't suppose that gentlemen wish to make a provision in the constitution that we are going to prohibit a person from coming here and by preaching advocate polygamy so long as they do not practice polygamy. If it is just a sentiment advocated, when any sentiment is advocated here as a religion we are perfectly willing to hear them. Now, I don't think the practice of polygamy is a mode of worship at all. It is a li.irbarism. I don't think it is a mode of religious worship. Now, there has been something said by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke here that they should not be molested in personal property on account 878 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES of Ihoir mode of rrligioiis worship. I think thai is propLT, and we ou^iht to conform to the Enabling Act in tiiis particular. I think tlie genth^nian from Deer Lodge is mistaken as to what is the seope of this provision. Mr. Parberry of .Meagher: I infive that this committee now rise. 'J'he motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of tlu' genlh-man from Meagher, Mr. Parberiy, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Chair then put the question on the motion of the gentleman Irom Park, Mr. Joy. to strike out Section 8, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. I'he Clerk read Section 9 as follows: ".\inth. That the people inliabit- ing said State of Montana do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries thereof and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held by any Indian or Indian Tribes, and that until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to the disposition of the United States, and said Indian lands shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and control of the Congress of the United States, that the lands belonging to the citizens of the United States residing within the said State of Montana shall never be taxed at a higher rate than the lands belonging to residents thereof; that no taxes shall be impose(l by the said State of Montana on lands or property therein belonging to or which may hereafter be purchased by the United States or reserved for its use. Hut nothing herein contained shall preclude the said State of Montana from taxing as othei- lands are taxed any lands owned or held by any Indian who has severed his tribal relations and has obtained from the I'nited States or fi-om any person a title thereto by patent or grant, save and except such lands as have been or may be granted to any Indian or Indians, under any .Vet of Con- gress containing a provision exempting the lands thus granted from taxation, but said last named lands shall be exempt from taxation by said State of Montana so long and to such extent as such Act of Congress may prescribe." There being no amendment to Section 9. the Clerk read Section 10. as follows: "Tenth, That the debts and liabilities of said Territory of Mon- tana shall be assumed and paid by said State of Montana." There being no amendment to Section 10, ttie Clerk read Section 11, as follows: "Eleventh, That provision shall be made for the establish- ment and maintenance of systems of public schools, which shall be open to all the children of said State of Montana, and free from sectarian control." There being no amendment to Section It. the Clerk read Sectiitn 12. as follows: "Twelfth. That this ordinance shall be irrevocable without the consent of the United States and the people of said State of Montana." Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I desire to offer an additional section to be numbered Section 13. The Chairman: The Chairman on the Committee on Ordinances offers a new section to be numbered Section 13. as follows: "Section 13. There shall be elected at thc> first general iMection to lie held lui the first Tuesday of October, 1889. by the qualified electors of each county in this State the following county and township officers: 'I'hrce C.dunty Commissioners, one County Clei-k, one Sheriff, one County Treasurer, one County Superintendent of Public Schools, one Comity Surveyor, one County Assessor, one Coroner, one Public .Xdminislrator. one County Attorney, two Justices of the Peace for each township, two Constaliles for each township, who shall enter upon the discharge of their duties on the first Monday of January succeeding such election, and shall hold their respective offices for the term of three years, and until tlieii' successors are elected and qualify, and all such officers thereafter electeil shall hold their offices for the term provided in this constitution." Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I mo\e the adoption nf the si'dion. Th(^ motion was secondi^d. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone; I submit to the (Ihair and thi> com- mittee that the secticm is out nf order, for the feason that lh(> matter has been provided foi' in the amendment to Section (i. This coulil not he co-nstrued as an amendment in any .sense of the word, and if so it cnn- flicts with that, and is therefore out of ordei'. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 879 Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I move that this committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis c^ Clarke. Mr. Hershfield. and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN CONVEXTinx. President Clark in llie Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. Collins of Cascade: Mr. President, the Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 33, have considered same, report progress and ask leave to sit again. The President: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reports that the committee have had under consideration Proposition No. 33. report progress and ask leave to sit again. If there be no objection the request will be granted. .Mr. Joy of Park: I move that the convention now take a recess until twd o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park. Mr. Joy. and a vote being tallissoula. Mr. Bickford. and a division being called for the same was rjeclared carried by a vote of 33 in the affirmative to 27 in the negative. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I move that the committee do now rise and report Proposition No. 33 back to the convention, with the recom- mendation that it be adopted. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I desire to offer an amendment. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I withdraw the motion. The Chairman: The gentleman from Silver Bow. .Mr. Dixon, offers to amend Proposition No. 33. by inserting after the eleventh section the following, and number the succeeding' sections to correspond. Twelfth, That on behalf nf the peoide d with Mr. Haskell". Mr. Biu'leigb of Custer: I would like to say inasmuch as an allusion was made to county attorneys that I happened to b(> el(>cteil the (7ounty .Mtorney in Custer County at the last election, and 1 am about Ihe only Republican who was elected. I do not claim it was on ai'count of my transcendent merit as a Reiiublican. but simply because I stood there before the peopli', I suppos". I showed the people of the county that I was with them in their reelings. The Sh(>riff of the county. Mr. ti'win, was elecli'd there lor till" full term. The County Cilerk. Mr. Deer, was electeil, and he is a full fledged Democrat from Virginia. Mr. Thompson of Illinois was elected 'I'l-easurer. I believe that when those men wi'nt into thai election and put up the (luid pro quo to pay the neci'ssary expenses fd' the campai^^n. that they wei'e entitled to the consideration of their party. 1 do not stand here to claim any superior advantagi's t'or the Republican parly, but I claim thai these men who were elecli'd are r.ONSTI'n Tlo.NAL CONVENTION 1889 883 ditidi'd 111 s<>i-vo out their ft'iJiis. Thcro may be others who will stanil under their party lash, but I never liite on any such bait. When I eoine in good faith here and pledp:- myself lo stand by the friends who stood liy me. I will do it or die in the attempt. Mr. Irwin went in there as ShiMiff and he fought the battle manfully. As you all know in this eouuly he is one of the best offieers that are — (Interrupted. The Pri'sident: The t;enlliaiaii luiderstands he is speaking by indiil- gence. ■ Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Yes sir; I understand that. If any man wauls to objeet I will sit down: I do nut ask any privilei;es — Mr. Deer is one of (lie best officers we lia\e in this western country, and I told him I believed it was right, and I believe it is right now, that no one who has ever gone out and got his nomination or his election by the indulgences of those people has a right to gn back upon them and take an opposite position. I do not say that any man has done it. but if I had ever done it, it is the last thing I would have done. I believe those men are entitled to serve out their full term of office. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Does the gentleman's remark have reference to the delegate to Congress. Thomas H. Carter. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I don't care about Mr. Carter: he is a man of your own choice: you can keep him. Now. these men that went into the fight, they did it manfully, not on account of their party, but their transcendent lionesly and their integrity, and their sense of duty. and I will oppose any election in our county this Fall. I want to put myself upon record and stand upon my record. The Clerk called the mil on the adoption of the amendment. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: BuUard, Burleigh. Burns. .\. J.: Callaway. Carpenter, Gauby, Chessman. Craven, Eaton. Gillette, (ioddard. Hammond. Hartman, Hobsoii. Hershfield. Hickman. Jov, Kennedv. Knippenberg, Knnwles. Kohrs, Loud. Luce. Marshall. Mitchell, Reek. Hotwift. Watson. Whitehill. Witter— 30. Nays: Bickford. Brazleton. Breen. Browne. Buford, Burns. A. F.; Cardwell. ColHns. Conrad, Cooper. Courtney. Dixon. Durfee. Fields, Gibson. Hatch, Hogan, Joyes. Kanouse, Maginnis, Marrion. Mayger. McAdow. Mid- dleton. Muth. Myers. Ramsrlell. Robinson, Schmidt. Stapleton, Toole. J. R.: Winston. Mr. President— 33. Absent: Burns. E.: Gaylord. Rickards, Webster — 1. Paired: .Vikeii and Sargent. Dyer and Graves, Haskell and Parberry. Jos. K. Toole and \^'arren — 8. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to amend lost. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move to reconsider the vote by which that motion to amend was lost: and I move to lay that motion on the table. The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move the call of the House. The motion was seconded. The President: The motion to reconsider is a iirivileged Question: unless there is evidence of an absence of a quorum. .Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President. I rise to a point of order, that the roll call shows a cpiorum present. The President: The queslion is to reconsider the motion by which the (lOddard resolution was lost, and the motion to lay it upon the table. The first question is upon the motion to lay on the table. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I call for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no objection the ayes ami nays will be entered on the journal. Tlie Clerk will call the roll. The Clerk called the roll. The vole stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford. Brazleton. Breen Browne. Buford. Burns. .\. F.: Card well, Collins, Conrad. Cooper. Courtney, Dixon, Durfee. Fields, Gibson, Hatch, Hogan. Joyes, Kanouse. Maginnis, Marrion. Mayger. McAdow, Mid- dieton. Muth. Mvers. Ramsdell. Rnbinson, Schmidt, Stapleton. Toole. J. R.; Winston. Mr. President— 33. N'ays: Bullard, Burleigh. Burns. .\. J.: (Tallaway. Carpenter, Cauby, Chessman, Craven, Eaton, Gillette, (ioddard. Hammond. Hartman. Hersh- field Hickman. Hobson, Juv. Kennedv, Knippenber.i.'. Knowles, Kohrs, Loud, Luce. Marshall. Mitchell.' Ramsdell, Reek. Rotwitt, Watsun, Whitehill. Witter— 311. .Misent: Hiu-ns. F.; (iaylcucl. Riekard-;, Webster — i. 884 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES I'iiiiTil: Aiki'ii aihj SarKi'iil. Ii.mt ami iica\i's, Haski'll ami I'ai'biTry, Jos. K. Toole and Wari'Cli — ^. Tlio Chaii' aiiiiimncfd the \n|i'. and deiMarcd llii> niofion U> lay on the table and Ihi" motion to rpconsidi'i- tin' \olr by wliicb Ibc anirndiin-nt was lost, carried. The President: The Clerk will I'ead tlie other aniendnienls. The Clerk read as follows; "Amend Seet.ion 7 by insertinj-' after the word "ol't'ieers" on line 5 the words "e.xcept County Ti-easurei-s." Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow sent up an amendment. The President: The i^entiemau from Silver Bow offers an amend- ment as follows: "E.xeept County Treasuri'r who shall enter upon the duties of his office on the first Monday in March after his election." Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I move the ailoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Knowles, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Chair then put the question on the amendment re|iorli'd by thi- committee to Section 7. and a ^ote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: "Amend by adding as Section (131 thirteen as follows: Sec. 13. There shall be elected at tlie first general election to be held on the first Tuesday of October, 1889, by the qualified electors of each county in this State the following county and township officers: Three (3,i County Commissioners: one (1) County Clerk; one (1) Sheriff; one (1) County Treasurer; one (1) County Superintendent, of Public Schools; one (I) County Surveyor; one (t'l County Assessor; one (I'l Cor- oner; one (1) I^uhlic Administrator; one (1^ County Attorney: two '2 Justices of .the Peace for each township; two (21 Constables for each town- ship, who shall enter upon the discharge of their duties on the first Monday of Jantiary succeeding such election, and shall hold their respec- tive offices for tlie term of three years and until their successors are elected and qualified, and all such officers thereafter elected shall hold theii' offices for the time provided in this constitution." Mr. Burleigh of Custer: Mr. President, if I understand aright, it provides for the election of one coroner. The President: Yes sir. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I will move an amendment that two coroners be elected, for it will take at least two to hold an inquest over the bodies of their friends before they gel through with this. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: If I understand it, it makes no provision for the County Treasurer taking his office on the first of March. If there is no amendment, I would like to offer one. Ml'. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke; I undeislood fromJudgi' Knowles that the general law provided for that. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I (d'fer the following. The President: The gentleman from Missoula, .Mi'. Hickfoi'd. offers to amend by adding, "e.xeept as lierein otherwise provided." Mr. Bickford of Missoula: Mr. President. I have placeil llo' word "and" at the commencement of that. II should be inserted ui lln- substi- mle or additional section offered by the gentleman from Deei' l.ocige. The I'l'esident: It would come in probably as the Chair undei'stands after thesi' words "who shall enter U|ion the discharge of his dutii^s on the firs'l Monday of January except as herein otluM'wise provided." Till lion of the amendment of llie j;entlenian from Missoula was seconded. Mr. Luce of (iailalin: Is an amendnieid in oi'der.' The President: .Not uidil this is disixised of, unless by consent. Mr. Luce of (lallatin: I proposi- to strike out that provision relating lo the time when they shall take theii; office, to be then co\ered by Sec- tion 7 aboxc, or the Seventh Oi'dlnance. It need not be repeated. 1 under- stand the si'clion is id'fered by Mr. Holiinsnii to leaxe out this section entirely. TIh" President; The question is upon tlie adoption nl' ihe amend meni offered by Mr. Bickford of Missoula. The ("hair put Ihe qiiestion on the ailoption ol' lhi> amendment offer-i'il li.\ the gentleman fr'om .Missoula, and a \"te being taken the same was declared cai'i'ieil. COXSTITI'TIOXAL CONVEN'TION lf<«9 885 Ml-. Ciilliiis of Casradf: I niiivp (he adoption of tho st'rlion as ainc'iiilpd. Till' niolioii was seconded. Mr. Harlnian of Gallatin: I should liki' in offer a substitute here to meet (he objections that were raised by Mr. Dixon. If is thi- I2tli section of the printed copy. The President: That will not be entertained at present until wi- ha\'' disposed of this question. The Clerk read the section as amended for tin- information of the con\ention. .Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I move (o amend by s(rikini; out the word ""three" and insert "one" in lieu thereof. Thi' motion was seconded. TIm- Chair stated the question. Ml". Witter of Beaverhead: I call for the ayes and nays. I see that Iheri' is a conflict in this section with other "parts of the constitution that have been adopted, and I think it Wduld be bitter that the officers only hold for one year, because it would be satisfactory and in accordance with the other part. Other sections should not conflict with this. The President: The question now is upon the adoption of the amend- ment offered by the gentleman from Beaverhead. If there be no objec- tions, the ayes and nays will be entered on tbe journal. Mr. Collins of Cascade; Before the roll is called, I would like to call attention to the fact that pairs would not count on this proposition. It is entirely outside of the main question, and has no reference to i( whatever. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I don't think pairs should count on any l>roposition here. We went into this election a year ago. and agreed to elect these men for two years, anil they went in and made their stake, and they were elected: and the idea of coming up in tliis convention and ruling them out. and saying (hat because we have got into convention they shall not hold office any longei-. I think it is one of the lowest things that was ever known among honorable men. I think that as we have the right by ordinance to come in here and provide that these men shall hold over through their full term of office^ that it should go in there. and it is no detriment to the state that these men should be entitled to hold their office in good faith. Now. as I said before, in Custer County. I believe I am the only Republican elected there, and I was elected not on account of the peculiar partiality of my party to me, for I don't think they ever haXi any more partiality towards me than the balance of the people: I was elected there foi- this purpose, and I never made any pledges either. But I do think il is oTie of the greatest breaches of impjied faith in (he world. These men went in and defrayed their expenses: they are honorable men: they are our best men: and I think those men should he entitled to hold out their terms of office in bi-inging it ai'ound to the regular election next year-, when the whi'els of governmeni will roll around without any friction at all. and I think they should l)e allowed to hold their- offices for the full terms. It will injure nobody: it will do the public a gi-eat deal of good: we want to try them through the full term of theii- probation, and if they make good officers re-elect them. Now. I am one of these men who happen to be a little peculiar in this thing. I don't think because a mass of men have put a Democratic brand on him that he is to be ostraciscMl by the Rejiublican party. I believe in taking him on his merit. Whether he has been a Democrat raised in Kentucky or Virginia, if he is a good faithfvd man. I believe in electing him. and I will never come in here to ostracise these men. and to chop off short the chicken's head here simply because il r-uns over the chop- ping block at this time when we have a chance to do it. anri r-eorganize either- the Republican or Deruocrafic party. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: To prevent any further discussion I will withdraw my motion. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I move the previous question. The Presiiient: The motion is wifhdraw-n. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I want to call the attention of the convention to Proposition Xo. 24. Section II, as printed and as amended it pass. It was passed on the sixth day of August and as it was passed it reads as follows: "There shall be elected in each county the following officers: One County Clerk, who shall be Clerk of the Board of County Commission- ers, and ex-officio recorder of deeds: one Sheriff: one Treasurer, who shall be collector of taxes: one County Super-intendent of SchonU: mie 881) PHOCEEDlNciS AM) DEBATES Ccmiity Surveyor: one Asscssur; (inc (Idi'Oiicr: (iiir Public AiliriiiiisliMtoi'. ]^(>rs()iis t'lpflcd to the difloi'i'iil offici's jiamii'ii in this si'ctjoii shall liold their respective offices for the term of two years: except lliaf the county officers elected at the first general election provided for by this constitu- tion shall hold their offices until the general eleclion in 1892, and until their successors are elected and ciualified." Now. that is all I care to read of it. The balance of this section refers to vacancies in office. This propfisition now befoi-e th(> con\ention is in the very teeth of this thai has been passed. There seems to me there is no way out of this, (>xcept extending the county officers already in office one year. Then the terms will commence regularly as already provided in this constitution. Wi> have without exception said that the terms of these officers shall be for two years. Now, then, wo say in another part of the constitution that the first shall be for three years or one yeai'. I don't understand that this section here that is already passed can be amended in this maimer by an ordinance, and I think the section proposed by the gentleman from i)i'er Lodge certainly Is out of ordei- and ought not to be considered. Mr. Middleton of Custer: We have listened to a considerable degree of buncombe here. Tt is undoubtedly apparent to the convention what is the source and the pur|iose and all T desire to say in reply (o that is that the people of some of these coimties have discovered that last Fall in making their selections they made a mistake and they are dr>sii'ous now of rectifying that mistake, and so far as I am concerned I have no fear to go home and face my people arid abide by any action of mine in this convention. I move the i)revious question on the amendment of the proposition. The motion was seconded. The President: The question now before the convention is, shall the main question be now put. There are no amendments. The main ques- tion is the adoption of the proposition as offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I have an amendment that 1 desire to offer at the -proper time to one of the paragraphs of this proposition, and I hope that so far as the main proposition is concerned, (be amend- ment will simply not prevail. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I mean simidy on this subdivision of it. The President: The previous question when ordered can only operate on any question that is pending before the convention: ami if there has been any motion to adopt the proposition it would not affect if. Mr. Loud of Custer called for the ayes and nays. !\Ir. Fields of Park objected. The Chair put the question on the motion for the call of the ayes and nays, and there being a sufficient number, the Clerk was instructed to call the roll. 'the Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .\yes: Bickford. Bra/.leton, Breen, Browne. Buford, Bui'ns. .\. I'.: Cardwell. Collins, Coni-ad„ (;oo|i(>r. Courtney, Dixon, Durfee, Fields, (iibson. Hatch, Hogan, Kanouse, Maginnis, Marrion, Mayger. Middleton, Mulh, Myers, Ramsdell, Robinson, Sclunidt. Slapleton, Toole, J. H.: Mr. Pi'csi- dent^Sfl. Nays: Burleigh, Burns, A. J.: Calla\\a,\-, Carpenter. Catdiy, Chessman. Craven, Eaton, Gillette, Goddard, Haniiuond. Hartman, Hershfield, Hick- man, Hobson. Kennedy, Kniiipenberg. Knowles, Kohrs. Loud, .lov. Luce. Marshall,, McAdow, Mitchell. Reek, RotwitI, Watson, Witter— 29. ,\bsenl: Burns, E.: Gaylord, Rickards, Webster — 4. Paired: Aiken and Sargent; Bullard and Joyes: Dyei- and Graves: Haskell and Parberry, Jos, K. Toole anil Warren, Whilehill and Win- ston—12. The Chair announrcd Ibe \iite and declared the motion of ihi' pi'i'xious question carried. The President: The question now is on the ado|)lioii cd' (he amend ment: the aves and navs will he entered on the jo\irnal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford, Brazleton, Breen, Bi'owne, Buford, Burns. .\. I-'.: Card- well. Collins, Coiu'ad, Cooper, Coui'tney. Dixon,, Durfee. Fields, (^.ibson. TIalcli. lloj;:in. Kannnse. Maginnis, Marrion, Mayger, McAdow. Miildleloii. COXSTITUTIONAL COXYENTTION IS89 887 Mulh. MvPi's. Kanisdell. Hubiiisoii. SchniirH. Staplt'toii. Toole, J. H.: .Air. Piesidcnt— 31. Nays: Burli'igh. Bums. A. J.: Callaway. Carpenter. Cauby. Chessman, Craven, Eaton, (lillette. (ioddaid. Haminoml. Hartman. Hershfield, Hick- man, Hobson. Jii\. Kennedy. Knippenherg, Kno'uies. Kolirs. Loud, Luce, Marshall, !\Ii(chell. Heek. Rotwilt. Watson. Witter— 28. Absent: Burns. E.: Gaylord, Rickards. Webster — 4. Paired: Aiken and Sarjrenl, Bullai'd and Joyes. Graves and Dyer, Haskell and Parherrv. Jos. K. Toole and Warren, Whitehill and Win- ston—12. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion to adopt the section offered by the gentleman from Deer Lodge carried. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin sent up an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Dixon, offered an amendment which has not been acted upon. The Clerk will read the same. Tlie Clerk read as follows: '"Amend Proposition No. 33 by inserting after the eleventh section the following, and number the succeeding para- graphs to correspond. Section 12. That on behalf of the people of Mon- tana, we. in convention assembled, rlo adopt the constitution of the United States." Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: I move I he adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Courtney, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The Clerk will read the amendment offeied by the gentleman from Gallatin. .Mr. Hartman. The Clerk ri'ad as follows: Amend the Twelfth ordinance in printed copy t.0 read as follows: '■Thiiteenth. That Ordinances No. 8. 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 herein shall be irrevocable with the consent of the United States and the said people of (he Slate of Montana." Renumber subsequent seel ions to correspond. .Mr. Magiunis of Lewis and Clarke: I would suggest to the gentleman from fiallalin that all that portion of the article which forms a contract with the United Stales shoiUd go by itself, and that this section which we have now adopted should go in "State Affairs". Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I will just simply state what the purpose of Ibis was. N\> only want to make such portions of these ordinances as are of a contract with the United States government, compelled lo be inserted here by the Enabling Act. irrevocable. Portions of them we don't want to make irrevocable. This is to read that the 8th. 9th, 10th, 11th. 12th and 13th sections shall be irrevocable, and the section 12th is nvunbered 13. With reference to the renumbering of them, as suggested by Mr. Maginnis. I believe the Committee on Phi'aseology and Revision should have the right to renumber or rearrange. Major Maginnis has suggested that the last section just adopted should follow Section 7. but I think the committee would have authority to insert it in that order and renumber accordingly. I hope it will jiass. for then it makes those irrevocable that are provided for by the EuRbling Act, and none others. The Chair put the question on the amendment offered by the gentle- man from Gallatin. Mr. Hartman. and a Mde being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Kanouse of IMeagher sent up an amendment. The Clerk read the said amiMidment as follows: Paragraph It: Insei-t in lieu of the word "systems" the words "a uniform system". The amendment was seconded. The Chair stated the amendment. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: \ reference to Proposition to No. 17 will reveal the fact that we have already adopted almost a duplicate of the eleventh paragraph in the proposition now under consideration. I believe that it is desirable that the constitution should be complete as to all of the ideas that, it is desired to incorporate, and I believe furlber with the ideas of the gentleman from Gallatin when attention was called to the fact that some portion of Paragraph 8 here had perhaps been adopted, that it would be the best and safest course for this convention to assume to follow as nearly as might be the positive requirements of the Enablins: Act. and I therefor voted in favor of the motion to retain intact all of the language in the i)aragraphs of this proposition. But I find, however. 8B8 PHOCEEDI.NfiS AM) DEBATES thai ^ei'liun 1, hu thr Arliulr (Hi Education, t'nes ijerliaijs a lilllr CiirlluM' than the paragrapli in this instance, and if it is in the power of tlic ciiinniitlce apijointed the otlier day, wliccc duplicate pnivisions are found, lo either strike one out or recommend lo the convention that it be done, I lliink that for the purpose of making this ordinance as complete as possible, and with the other provision which will be a duplicate of it stricken out, I think this amendment ought to be made. I don't Ihink it is proper, or perhaps the sense of this convention, that there should he more than one system of common schools, or of public schools, and llii' error, if eri'or it be, has crept in from following too closely the exact language of the Enabling Act of Congress in this respect. I tliink it was not, the intention that the diflereni sects sliould all be pro\ ided for |j\ different systems but that the word "systems" there used refer'red to the diflV'reid Slates, hut that in the Stale the s>-stem shouhl he Uiiii'onn and complete, and should not be "systems", but should be one and uni- form tlu'tiugliout Ibe State. The Chair put 'ho question on the amendment of the gentleman li'om Meagher, Mr. Kanouse. and a division lieing called for Ihe same was declared carried by a vote of 26 in tlie affiiinative to 21 in the negative. Mr. Dixon of Silver Bow: I move to reconsider the vole by which that anienilment was adopted. I di'sire lo state that it seems to be very iu'porlant to adhere clo.'ely lo what (Congress says. We have in here just exactly what Congress requires, and I am decidedly in favor of this malter of followina- the language and the exact words of the Act of Congress. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on Ihe motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow, Mr. Dixon, and a vote being taken, the same was declared cai'ried. The President: 'the question now is upon the adoption of tlic amendment. Mr. Collins of Cascade; I hope that Ihe amendment will carry. This section in the Enabling Act cerlainls had icference to the Territory of Washington, the two Tei'rilories of Dakota, and the Territory of Montana, ;uid the language of the Congressional .\ct takes the plural, according to my notion of it. Now, I don't believe there is a man in this conven- tion that, wants to have more than one system of public schools in Ihe State of Montana, and I believe the amendment of the gentleman from Meagher is correct, and in the line of Ihe Enabling Act of Congress. It seems to me that if we do anything else we will be stultifying ourselves. There is not a member on the floor of this convention who is in favor of more than one sysleni of public schools. Mr. Kanouse of Mea,L:lM'r: I belie\e, sir. that no gentleman here who will cai'efully compare Section I of t'roposition No. 17 with paragraph 11 of this proposition under consideration, and then will take into consid- ei'atioi! Ihe language used in* the Enabling Act,^ but who will say that the position which I take upon this matter is correct. I think, sir thai Ihe gentleman fi'om Sihep Bow, who moved the reconsideration of this matter, will hardly say that the establishment of a uniform system of public schools, wliich shall be open to all the children of the Stati' of Montana, and fi'ce from sectarian control, would not be a full and <'om- I)|ele compliance willi the Act of Congr'ess, where they say that proxision shall be made for Ihe estalilishment ami maintenance of systems of public schools, which shall be open to all Ihe children of the State. II seems superfUnms to say anything more on the subject. All has been said that, if, is necessary to' say. It is only a play of words. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis i*v: Clarke: If seems to be ttiat the inter|)i-ela- fion given to this section by the gentleman from Meagher is correct. This is a case where if you follow the law you disi'Cgard the meaning entirely. 'I'he "system" covers everything — ^covers "systems" — everything thai can be ilone in refer(>nc(> to schools. All Congress asks is that each Stale shall establish a system, and when they use Ihe language in reference lo Ihe four States they say "systems", but, it really onh I'efiTs to one system. The (Iliair i)nt the (|ueslinn on the adoplion of the aniendmi'nt offered by the gentleman from Meat;bei', Mr. Kanouse, and a division being calleil for the satne was dechu-ed carried by a vote of 33 in the alTirnnit i\ e to I'.t ill tlle liegalixe. COXSTITL TIU.NAL CON^^ENTION 1889 889 The President: There is an anipmimenf. offered by Mr. Loud of Cus- ter, which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: "Amend Ordinance No. 7 by striking out the words "law for territorial officers" and insert in lieu tiiereof the words "Ordinance No. 5." Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I rise to a point of order. It cannot be reached. It is the ordinance upon which the vote was taken, and the reconsideration of it was laid on the (able. The President: It does not apply, as the Chair understands, to the section stated by Major Maginnis. Mr. Loud of Custer: If Ordinance Xo. 7 remains as it now is we will have two canvassing boards. We will have one composed of thi- Secretary of the Territory and the Governor and Chief Justice, and in Ordinance No. 7, we have the original territorial canvassing board: and it would be necessary for the County Clerks in different counties to trans- mit two copies of all the returns in the different counties, one to the board which we have agreed to today and one to the original territorial board. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: For the same reasons offered by the gentleman. I withdraw the amendment to Section 7, in order to straighten that matter out. so as to avoid having two canvassing boards. Mr. Loud of Custer: I will accept that amendment. The Clerk read the amendment as follows: "Amend Section 7 by inserting after the word "votes" in line 4 the words "for State officers, canvassed in the same manner as provided in Section .5 herein: and the votes for county anil township officers shall be canvassed in the same manner as by law provided for county and iownship officers": and the words "canvassed in the same manner as provided by law for territorial officers" stricken out. Mr. Robinson of Deer Lodge: I will state to the convention that that will make the section provide for the canvassing of all the State officers in the same manner as canvassing for the ratification of the constitution, and that it will leave all county and township officers just the same as the law leaves it— the same canvassing board, as the law now leaves it. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: T would call the attention of the gentleman to I he fact that the canvassing board as it now stands consists iif gentlemen of both polifica! parties, and if the amendment is carried it will be all of one party, which is not the way to constitute a canvassing board. Mr. Loud of Custei-: I bad no intentinTi of making political question of these things, but T look at it in this light, that as long as all of these different officers will all be on the same ticket, it seems to me to be necessary that they should be canvassed by the same board. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I agree with the gentleman from Lewi'^ it Clarke, that they ought not to be of the one parly. I know we felt like objecting very forcibly when the apportionment, of this Territory was made by one board. The Clerk read the amendment for the inHirmation of the conxenlion. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the amendment. The Clerk will read the section as it will he. if amended. The Clerk read as follows: "7th. That notice of such election for Stale, county and township officers shall be given by the several comities or county commissionei's in the same manner as notices of general elec- tions for delegates to Coneress and county officers under the now exist.inar laws of the Terrifoi'y. and such election shall he conducted and held, and the votes for said officers canxassrd in the same manner as provided in Section 5 herein, and the votes for county and township officers shall b.' .canvassed in the same nianner as by law provided for county and tovsii- ship officers, and all State, county and township officers, except county treasurers, shall qualify and enter upon the discharge of their duties as such on the first Monrlay of .Tanuary following such election, except county treasurer, who shall enter upon the duties of his office on the first Monday in March after such election." The President: That is the way the section will read as amended in Committee of the \\'hole and in con\enfion. if the amendment is carried. 8{»0 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Hogaii of SiKcr Hnw: l-" afli'r the election and canvass the voteg so cast and declare the result. The section as read by the Clerk is with the amendments in Coimnil- fee of the Whole which have been adopted. Mr. Lyce of Gallatin: The amendment here refers to Seclinn ."). f suppose it should be "Ordinance .5". The President: Yes sir. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the amendnieul as read by the Clerk, and a vote beinp taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move the adoption of the proposition as amended. The nidtiiin was secondeij. The President: Tt is moved and seconded that the proposition as amended be adopted and placed upon its final passage. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: There are several matters on wliii'h T ■wouUl like to ask information in reference to this proposition. Is there any place provided in this ordinance as amended which states when these State officers are fo take their offices? Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i*c Clarke: That is in the Executixi' di'part- ment. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Does that pro\'idp when? Mr. Maginnis of T^ewis I't Clarke: The fii-st Monday in .Tarniary after the election. (Reading^ "Except that the term of office of those who are elected at the first election shall begin when the State shall be ad- mitted into the Union." &c. Mr. Knowdes of Silvei' Bow: Then, the district officers. .\ow. these judges are all district .judges. If they take office only on the first of .Tanuary. we may be admitted into the Union on the first of December, and then we would he witho\it courts for a month. There ought to be some pro\ision made. Really. I feel as though this whole tbinp ouyht lo be committed to a conuniitee ami remodeled, and still I think we .'an cure it. The President: The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal on the adoption of the proposition. The Clerk called the I'oll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford. Brazleton. Hreen. Browne. Buford, Bvn-ns, A. F.: Cal- laway, Cardwell, Collins, ('onrad, Cooper. Courtney. Dixon. Durfee. I'Melds. Gibson. Hatch. Hopan. Kanouse. Kennedy. Maeinnis. !\Iai'rion. Mavger, McAdow. Middleton, Muth. Mvecs. Ramsdell. Robinson. Schmidt. Staplelon, Toole. J. R.: Warren. Winston. Mr. President— .t4. Nays: Burleigh. Burns. \. .!.: Carpenter, Cauby. (Tbessman. Ci-a\-en. Eaton, (iillette. Goddard. Hannnond. Hartman. Hershfield. Hickman. Hob- son. .lo\. Kni|ipenberg. Knowles. Kohrs. Tond. Luce. Marshall. Mitchell. Reek. Robinson. \\'atson. \\'hiteliill, Witter— 27. .\Iisent: E. Burns. Gayloi-d. Rickards. Webster — 'i. Paired: Aiken and Sargent. Bollard and Joyes. Oraves and D\-er. Haskell and Parberry. Jos. K. Toole and Warren— 10. The Chair announced the \ote and declari'd the niolion to adopt Proposition No. 33 cari'ied. The President: Thi' proposition will In- I'ngrossed anil enrolleil ami referred to the Connnittee on Revision and Phraseology. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move to reconsider the vote by which Pi'opiisition No. .33 was carried, and move to lay that motion on tbi' table. The motion was seconded. Thi' Chair staled the motion. Mr. Robinson of Deei' Lodge: T desiri' lo I \cuseil froni Ibe con Mention tor Ibe day. I feel indisposed. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 891 The Clinir put. the quesUoii on the motion of tiie gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, and a di\ision being called, the same was declared carried by a \ote of 31 in the affirmative to 2G in the negative. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I mo\e that we take a recess until eight o'clock. The. motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer, Mr. Hurleigh, and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. Mr. Collins nf Cascade: I move the convention resolve itself into (Committee ol' llie ^\'hole for Ihe consideration of the general file. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, and a vote lieing taken, the same was declared carried. The President called Mr. Middleton of Custer to the Chair. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Middleton of Custer in the Chair. The committee was called to order. Mr. Eaton of Park: I move that the committee proceed to the consid- eration of Proposition No. 36, Article on Public Indebtedness. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park. Mr. Eaton, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Chairman: The Clerk will read Section 1 of Proposition No. 36. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 1. Neither the State or any county, city. town, municipality nor other subdivision of the State shall ever give or loan its credit in aid of. or may any donation or grant, b>' subsidy or otherwise, to any individual association or corporation, or he- come a subscrilier to, or a shareholder in, any company or corporation, or a joint owner with any person, company or corporation, except as to such ownershi|i as may accrue to thi' State by operation or provision of law.'" Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I move to strike out tite word "or" in line I. There is a little mixture of the tlisjunctive conjunction. The motion was seconded. The Chair staited the motion. Mr. Herslifield of Lewis & Clai'ke: I wish tlu- gentleman fi'om Galla- tin would state the reason for striking that out. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: It strikes me it is not grammatical. The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Gallatin, Mr. Luce, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to Section i the Clerk read Sec- tion 2 as follows: "Sec. 2. The Legislative .\ssembly shall not in any nianner create any debt, except by a law which shall be irrepealable until the indebtedness therein provided for shall haive been fully paid or discharged: such law shall specify the purpose to which the funds so raised shall be applied and provide for the levy of a tax sufficient to pay the interest on and extinguish the principal of such debt within the lime limited by such law for the payment thereof: but no debt or liability sliall be ci'cated which shall singly or in the aggregate with any existing debt or liability exceed the sum of one hundred thousand dollars f-?IOO.- 000\ except in case of war, to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, unless the law authorizing the same shall have been submitted to the people at a general election and shall have received a majority of the votes cast for and against it ut such election." There being no amendment to Section 2, the Clerk read Section 3 as follows: "Sec. 3. .\11 moneys borrowed by or on behalf of the State shall be used only for the pnijiose specified in the law authorising the loan." There lieing no amendment to Section 3, the Clerk read Section 4 as follows: "Sec. i. The State shall not assume the debt, or any part thcreol. of any county, city, town or municipal corporation." Mr. \\'ari'en of Silver Bow: I move that in connection with Section 4, the proiiosition of the gentleman from Custer. Mr. Burleigh, be read and disposed of. The r;iot|(iii was seconropriation. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: You say thai "no county sliall be allowed |o hecome indebted iii any maimer or for any purpose to an amount, including;' the existing indebtedness in the aggi'egate exceedin;; five per ciMilum of the value of the taxable property therein." Now. if you ha\e got up to five per cent and here comes on a term of court and a dozen criminal cases to be prosecuted, tliey could not incur an expense for that purpose. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I am sorry 1 have to dis;;f;ree with the gentleman on this proposition. The last clause provides thai it limits the county on any single indebtedness to $IO,'(tOO. They cannot incur any one single indeii'tedness at the time for any single purpose in excess of $10,000. Now, if you go on and incur indebtedness for courts, it comes under the head of numerous items — jurors, witnesses and othei- expenses. They cannot incur any indebtedness for fuel exceedinj; >( il. why. \(iu make a pretty good intlehtedness when divided up in thai way. Mr. Kennedy of Missoula: My reason for seconding the amendment of the gentleman from Choteau to strike out all words in the section after the word "voifl" is jusi this. \\'e have in the county of Missoula very many places to bridge, >and we will in the future probably have to buiid bridges that will cost $15,000 to $20,000. It is the proposition of the present Board of County Commissioners that if they should e\ei' tia\e to builii any bridges aci'oss main streams in the future that they will pill in stone abutments and iron bridges, which will cost about double what ordinary wooden bridges oi- coinliinalion bridges cost: and we haxe today in the county brid,i;es should be (aken iiu( b.\ a high si retch of water, such as we had two years ago. it would not b(> IKissible f(u- a Boai'd of County ConniiissioniM-s to go on and I'eplaci' those bridges without sulmiitting (he (piesliim a( a general electiim In a miIi' of (he people and it would leave i( in a \ei'v bad condKimi. 1Iimic(\ if (here is anv limi(a(inn. il nuLdil In be a( leasl from . revenues deri\ed therefrom to the payment of the debt." Mr. ^^■itter of Beaverhead: I move that when the committee rise lliey report back the proposition with the recommendation on that it do pass. The motion was seconded. 894 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES 'I'he Chair pvit. tln^ quoslidii on tlie motion of the gentleman from Beaverhead, Mr. Witler, and a vote being taken, the same was. declare"! carried. •Mr. Eaton of Purk: 1 innve ttiat the committee do now rise. The motion was seconded. Tlie Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Park. Mr. Eaton, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN CONVENTION. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to orrler. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, your Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 36 and report the same back with but one amendment in line 1 of Section 1. striking out the word "or": and with that amendment recommend that it do pass. The President: Gentlemen of the convention, you liave heard tlie report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole, with the amend- ment reported. If there be no objection, the rules will be suspended; and considered and placed upon its final passage. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis i^ Clarke: I move that the convention re^solve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition No. 38. Th(> motion was seconded. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: Let us get through with this jjroposition first .Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: T withdraw the motion. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: T nio\e that Propiisition No. 36 be placed upon its tinal passage. The. motion was seconded. Tlie Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from (iailatin. Mr. Luce, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The Clei'k will read the amendment. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend Section one by strMking out the woi-il "or" on line one. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I move to amend by striking out the word "or" where it occurs in line one and inserting- "nor", and strike out "nor" where it occurs in line one and insert "or". The motion was seconded. The Chair put the queslion on the motion of the geidb'man from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Carpenter, and a vote being taken, the same was derlared carried. The President: The geid.leman fmin Choteau moves to amenrl by addini: to Section 6 the words "oi- system of sewerage". The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. The Clerk read the lattei- |iarl nt llie si'clinn "^ix as i)roposed to he amended: "Provided, liowe\(M'. Iliat the Legislative ,\ssenibly may au- lhor'i.'.e m\micipal coi-poca(ions to incur such indebtedness as may bt^ necessary to prociu'e an ample supfily or system of sewerage for such nnuiiciiiality which shall own and conti'ol said water supply and devote the reven\ies derived Iherefrom to thi> payment of the debt." The Chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Choteau. Mr. Conrad, and a vote being (aken the same was d(>clai'ed car- ried. The Presideiil : The nmlion In place the pi^opositinn No. 36 upon its final jiassage has been caiTied. The nyes ami nays will be enlei-eil on the .jinu'nal. The Clei'k called the roll on Ihi^ ailo|ition of Pcnpositinn No. 3(i. The vote stood as follows: .\yes. .\iken. Hickfortt. Bra/leton, Rreen, Browne, Ruford. Burns, .\. F.: Oardwel], Cauby, Carpenter. Chessman, Col- lins, Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Craven. Dixon, Dnrfee, Eaton, (^libson, Gillette, Goddard, Graves. Hammond, Hartman. Haskell. Hatch, Hersh- field. llicliman, Hohsiin. llofrnn. .Iny, Kano\ise. Kennedy. Kniniienberi;. Kohrs. Loud. Luce. Mari'ion. Mai'sball. VayL'er, McAdow, Midilleton, "Milchell, Myers, Parbei'rv, Ramsdell, Rofwitt, Schmidt. Stapleton, \\'atson, White- hi'll. Winstnn, Willei'. Mi'. Pi'esidenI- ^rM. Na\s: K'nowles and W'ai ren — 2. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION l8Sy 895 Alistnl: Hviilarti. Buileigh. Hniiis. A. .1.: Burns. K.: Callaway, DytT, Fields, Gaylord. Joyes. .Ma^innis. Muth, Reek. Robinson. Riekards, Sargent, Jds. K. Ionic. ,1. R. riioli'. W i-lislrr--lS. The Chair announeed the vote and deelared Proposition No. 36 adopted ab 'a part of the Constitution of the State of Montana. The proposition was sent to the Enrolling Committee to be enrolled. Mr. ,Ioy of Park: I move that the Convention resolve itself into Com- mittee of the N\hole for the consideration of proposition .No. 26. The motion was seconded. The Chair pufthe question on the motion of the gentleman from Park, Mr. Joy, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President called .Mr. Joy of Park to the Chair. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. Joy of Park in the Chair. Thr '•oiuniitli'i' \\.Ts called lo orili'i-. The Chairman: The Clerk will lead section one of Proposition No. 26. The Clerk read as follows: "Section 1. The water of every natural stream not heretofore appropriated within the State of Montana is here- by declared to be the property of the public; and the same is dedicated to the use of the people of the State, subject to appropriation as herein- alter provided." .Mr. Kanouse of Meagher sent up an amendment. Till- Chairman: Tl'.e gentleman from Meaghi r. Mr. Kanouse. (dfersthe following amendment. The Clerk read as follows: "Substitute for section 1: All unappro- priated waters within the State are declared to be public property and subject to appropriaiion pursuant to law." Mr. \\'arren of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the substitute. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the question. ^Ir. Kanouse of Meas'her: Tlie amendment there js in accordance with the ideas expressed in section one of the proposition as printed: but the language used in the original section, it seems to me. does not comprehend all that should be included in the provision there. For instance, the language "the waters of every natural stream." would not include the waters of lakes or springs. I miderstand that in connection with the proposition of supplying Helena with water somebody had suggested the bringing of a stream from some lake that has been discovered up in the mountains. Now. under the jirovision of section 1, the waters of .such lake could not be appropriated: it could not be public use such as would be the case with every natural stream: and in the latter part of the section it declares that such waters are "svibject to appropriation as hereinafter provided." Now. I undertake to say that this is a mistake: that it is not hereinafter provided as to the manner in which streams may be appro- liriated. That is provided for on page 99.5 of the Statutes of Montana, which provides for the posting of notice and for the construction of works. Now, this does not propose to do anything of that kind, and in that re.spect the language used there is not proper. I don't think that anything of that kind was intended. It seems to me that the language of the amendment is concise, and covers pei-haps all that was intended to be covered by the Committee haAing this proposition in charge, and it not only covers it all but it goes further in the matter of including aU waters within the State which may be devoleif or nii|"''M"'''ded lo beneficial uses. The Chair put the question on the Substitute offered by the gentleman from Meagher. Mr. Kanouse. and a vote being taken, the same was de- clared carried. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I nio\ e lo no'end the substitute by striking out the word "unappropriated" on the first line and after the first sentence: so thflt it will read ".-\ll waters within the State are declared to be public property." The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Sf.apleton of Silver Bow: It appears to me that we are making a mistake in the wording of that: it appears to me that the wording should be "unappropriated waters". It appears to me that we are excluding from tht< '■ei'ti in unapproiiriafed waters. .Now. we are declaring that all waters within the Stall' should he public iiropi'rty, nod we all know that a consid- 89(3 PROCEEDINGS A\D TtEBATES erable portion of the waters of Montana Ijias been appropriated as private property, and therefore this Convention has no right to ehange the owner- ship of that. Therefore, I would suggest that an amendment of that kind be made to say "that all unap|)roprialed waters of MontJana Territory" &c. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I think that is all right, except that there should be another proviso, and it should be this — (interrupted . Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I would suggest to the gentleman that that is the language of the substitute whieh has been adopted, so that it will in- clude not only unappropriated, but also waters, which might heretofore have been appropriated, and it seems to me that that is the only question to consider in connection with the amendment that is offered to the sub- .stitute of the gentleman frmn Cascade, is whether or not the striking out of that word would not interfere with vested rights, by making subject to appropriation to be made hereafter, waters which are already appro- priaterl. It seems to me we should proceed very cautiously in that matter. Inasmuch as I am nut cli'ar uiion it. I am rather opposed to the amend- ment. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I would ask the gentleman who offered the amendment, if his amendment prevailed, if it would not make springs upon private lands subject to appropriation, if not in use by the owners thereof. I belie\e (hat the general doctrine of law has been that ■^oriiv-- belonging to the land were not subject to appropriation. If the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade should prevail, I am afraid that the springs themselves would become subject to appropriation under the section as it would then stand. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I hope the amendment of the gentleman from Cascade will not prevail, because we winild not own the watei' in our own wells. I undertake to say tliat a water right, or a right to use water is just as much property as is a horse for instance, and it would be just about as consistent for us to declare in this Constitution that every horse in the State should.be the projierty of the State. This is a very sweeping amendment. It includes the right — the iirivate right of parties to use water, and that property is declared, if this is carried, to be the prop- erly of the SMate. Certainly we do not meaii anything of thai kind, and ! trust that this amendment will not prevail. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: If tliis auKMidment, had emanated from that di.stinguished person, Henry George, or Dennis Kearney, I would not have been surprised, but to emanate from a gentleman, a citizen of Montana, identified with her interests, who proposes here by a dozen words to an- nihilate one-sixth or one-seventh of the property interest in this Terri- tory, I am certainly very much astonished. It would be just as consistent to "offer an amendment taking from him his bank stock, his hank a:c- count, and the cash behind his counter. Why, as I said before, one-sixth or oni- s(>\entli of the i)ropi>rtv of tliis Tecritory is in water dilchi's \c,. and these rights are vested richts. and T hope his amendment will not, and T don't think it will, prevail. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I believe that all waters within the State have heretofore been declared to be public iiroperty. Now, I may be mis- taken about that; but something was said about it in the Article on Preamble and Bill of Rights, and T think Mr. Toole introduced a proposition, which was i-opied from the ('alifoi'iiia I'onstitution, declaring lliiil all waters in the State shall be of public use. Now, in a country like this. T hold that the Stale or thi> county or the pidijic should have the control of the water for manufacturing and ir'rigating and mining puriioses: that no one man or body of men slionlil have (he jiower (o appropriate water, whether it is done before iw after this time, anrl not iise it for beneficial purposes when his neighbors want it. Cei'tainlv water that has heretoiV.i-e been apiiropriafed. under the laws of Montana cannot be taken away. You caimot lake away one single, solitnrv. \ested richt of any individml in Montana, who has heretofore appT'oiM'iated its waters by law. But T do say that it any other man who has hei-etofore appropriated the waters of Montana or any corporation, shouhl be subject to the i)ublic right, that the law shotdd coiitrol that right so far as it can, ami that, man should not be allowed the exclusive use of that wafer for a purpose that is not bene- ficial, or' for wasteful pui-poses or for any other purpose that is detri- meidal. oi' that he should not be allowed to use it at all. We can as well declare that the waters heretofore appropriated are pidilic property, as to declare that the waters to be hereafter appropriated are public prop- erty. There is not a single bit of differi'nce in the two propositions. Tlie CONSrrn TIO.XAL C.O.NVK.NTIOX IASO 897 water of Mnntana and of all arid L'Oimtrics should be public property, and ir you so declare it you don't take a\va\ a single interest that a man ntay have in the wat.er heretofore apiiropriated: but. you to proxide that if he has a great amount of watei' thai he must use it: that the public has control of it and must lefjislale upon it. I'hat is the main idea and I believe it, is a good one. Section 15 of tbi' I'l'eamble and Hill of Rights pro- vides as follows: "The use of all water now appropriated or that may hereafter be appropriated for sale, rental, or distribution or other bene- ficial use, and the right of way over the lands of othei's for all ditches, di'ains, flumes, canals and aqueducts necessary to use in connection there- with, as well as sites for reservoirs necessary for collecting, and storing the same sliall be held to be public use." Now, there was no one that lifted ufi their hands in holy lion-or wheii thai law passed, an. 1 that i.s almost the proposition that I submit to the Convention now, and I be- lieve it is right. It is right from this fovuidation. It cannot be long tnider existing circumstances in this country, and I believe that the gen- tleman from Custer will coincide with me, as he has heretofore, and I be- licNc he will now mi this iirnposition. The intent id' my ameninoeuf ?-; alreaily incorporated in this Constitution. Mr. t^oddard of Yellowstone: I submit to every lawyer that the intent i'( the gentleman's resolution is not incorporated in the Con- stitution at any place. Tiie proposition incorporated in the Constitution arose upon the question as to whether the State has the right to say that private property can be taken for private use, and upon that prop- osition the amendment of .Mr. Toole v^ws inlroduced making all ditches a public use instead of a private use — simply declaring the distinction be- tween a public and private use. It does not declare that all water taken by private individuals shall be public: it only declari's that it shall be of public use. in order thiat a private individual may take out a private ditch and a right of way. That is the distinction. There is no where in the Constitution, so far as I know any provision whii'h says that all of the waters of the territory shall be ]iublic waters, bid all ditches whether public or private shall be considered in that iM'sjiect as ditches for public use only. The Chairman: The question is uikmi the ann'ndment offered by the gentleman from Cascade. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: ] nio\e to amend by moving that when this ('.(immittee rise they report Proposition No. 20 back with the recom- mendation that it be laid on the table. 'I'he motion was secondiNJ. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I see no reason why this Constitutional Con\ention should deal with this matter now. It is a grave and conflicted ijuestion. 1 can foresee that it is a matter that involves some of the per- manent interests in the coming State of Montana, and I don't think it ought to be disposed of in this short bill such as this is here, that would make any iron clad provision for the future liisposition of the waters of the ciiming Stale nf Montana. It iiccui's to ine that the Legislatui-e ol I he coming Slate should be amply qualified to deal with this matter and to deal with it at length and in detail, and why we should occupy our time here now in incorporating any provision relating to it in tlie Constitution I don't luidersfand. It occurs to me the proper thing to do is to relegate tin' whole matter to the future legislatures of the State, and as the wants of the people changi\ that we have lielti'r and UKire definite ideas of whai is necessary in this matter, the legislature can unquestionably, it seems to me attend to it better than we can now. l''or thai I'eason I mlake the motion. Mr. Eaton of Park: In supiiort id' the motinn (d' the gentleman from Deer Lodge, I would say that the conmiittee on mining, water and water I'iglits had this general subject imder consideration, and if there was lany I'eport to be made, they should have made it, especially in view of the fact that that was before the comuMttee on irrigation was appointed. But in considering the subject in all its phases it was di'cided that it was en- tirely a matter of legislation, and they were guided by experience which perhaps does not pertain to our didiberation. But as a matter of fact in the convention of 1884 this subject was made the matter of a rather ex- haustive report from that same committee. They incorporateil this and much more similar matter, and that convention, after much deliberation — I think it took two or three days — finally ei'ased the whole matter and con- «98 PROCEEDINGS AM) DEBATES sidorf'd it l<> be (III' prcppr siilpjcci nf IciiislaUon. And willi llia( iili'u llii'ii expressed and as has been expressed on this floor, I liearlily concur and I am in favor of the motion that when this committee rise it report back the matter with the reconmiendation that it be laid on the table. Mr. Knowles of Sihei' How: Mr. Cliaiiiiian. there is a t;reat deal in Ihis proposition 20 that should receive our consideration. Now, the proposition to declare all the waters of the State public property is a very important one. Why, so far as the appi'opriations that have already been made, it would hardly be a proper constitutional provision. The rights that men have to water that they have already appropriated are really guaran- teed to theiri liy an act of Congress. It is a gi'ant to them of tli!,- i-iglit of water — "All water rights tiiat are recognized by the laws and customs and decisions of the courts", I believe is the language of a provision of the law of the l'iiit(>(l States — "shall be I'ecogiiized." And it is under llii' iiros i- sions of that statute that we have apiirojiriatiMj waters and thai that rit:ht has been recognized as valid as against the sale of land ovei- which the waters were accustomed to flow. But the declaration that all the appro- priated waters shall belong to the public is a very important matter. Now, it will be remembered that I requested that this memorial that the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Major Maginnis, had referreil to a com- mittee to make a report upon, should not prevail, and that it should be re- committed. In the conversation that I had with this Cniigi'essionid Irri- gation Committee, I pointed out then the trouble that existed in relat!(m to our controlling in the Slate the unappropriated waters in the State: that these waters had their sources in the mountains: that these mountains were unsurveyed: that the government of the United States had the title to that property: that we in our constitution here had disclainieil all right or title to the lands belonging to the United States or to any Indian or Indian tribes, anrl the term "land" as defined by the laws of the land included the water flowing over those lands; and when lands were solil over which water was accustomed to flow, and that water had not been dr\'erted by appropriation in aceordance with this act of Congress, that they proba- bly would obtain title to if- that is. the goxernment of the Uniteii States. by virtue of the term "lands," entitled to this water, that they would con- vey it to the parties to whom they gave a patent to the land. Senator Stewart took issue and claimed that the courts should ignore the old rule and that the courts themselves should decide that these wafers were public property and that the decision that was made in California against Mr. Haggin should not pr'exail. Now, that requires a court to go to work to make laws, and the other genllemen tlionghf (hat (he best thing tlial could be done about that was for (his ccins(ilii(innal conNention upon that subject to memorialize Congress and ha\e Congress either graiU to (he States these waters or declare that the appropriation and use of those waters should be subject to legislative control; that the manner of the use, and the very proposition that Senator Stewart was contending for, that the large appropriation of wafer by one individual or a company of individ- uals, should not prevail; (hat there could be made provisions of law by which the owners of land could take up this water and divert it. But here were the laws of (he I'niled States upon this subject, and here was the fact that these waters being in (he mountains — having their source in the mountains — tha( we could not contr(d them. And Major Powell, who has this irrigation matter xovy nnich at heart saw the force of that and afterwards spoke to me about, it; and (hey all thought that there should be some move in the new States that w(>i'e being formed where irriga- tion prevailed, to get possession of these waters, or control of them in some way, so that by legislation we cmdd control the use. .\tid that is the I'eason that I believe that so far as saying that these waters are public, to he used only as provided by law, is a proper provision, provided we can gel some action of Congress on this subject, to really facilitate thai matter, to turn over the control and aitpropriation and use of |.hesi> waters entii'ely to the Slate. Them is m (he grant of appropriation 'r"" Now, the statutes of the Territory pro- vide for that anyliow, but if we put this provision in here we put that beyond legislation: we cannot control it by legislation. And strike that out saying that these waters shall be public waters and subject to law. Then the legislature may provide for the use of these waters and how they shall be used, and may establish means of dividing up the water for iirigatiiin and so tli;it one |i;irly shall not iiavf an excess nf waliT and allow water to run to wasti'. ;ind all such matters as that. That is as to future appropriation. Past appropriations cannot be affected by this Constitution. They have their grant from the government of the United States and ex- cept for a public use where they are condemned and damages paid, the Stat* ought not to have (he right to take those waters. And in relation to section 3. that is very much the same thing that we have put in our bill of rights. But still that in the bill of rights was a sort of limitation u|)0[i the power of the State rather than granting the power to tlie legis- lative authoi-ity of the State, while this section 3 is a grant of legislative authority to the Slate and is positive in its terms. Generally a bill of rights is a limitation upon powers rather than a grant of powers. Here this is a grant of powers, and I believe that ought to stand. This public use re- ferred to by the gentleman from Cascade does not apply to water: that is across the land of others to irrigate — for irrigation ditches — and we de- clare that to be a public use; and I may say that Senator Stewart fully coincided with that. He thought that was just the thing to do,, to decide that it was a public use. In relation to this last section he said that they had that in the California constitution. I did not remember of seeing it in the California constitution: it may be there. They have it in the Colorado constitution: and he said they had had trouble in California up- on this subject: that the courts had held that this was not an unlimited power so much so that they could make regulations that would confis- cate a man's property, but that those regulations would be determined to be reasonable regulations such as would not confiscate a man's property. Now. if that regulation is put upon it. I am inclined to think that is proper. Some time ago in this convention there were gentlemen who were very urgent aliout this matter, and that the county commissioners should reg- ulate these matters and r>revent capitalists fiom appropriating large amount-; of water and making the men on the line of their ditches serfs: and a good many of them talked a good deal about that subject. Now. I be- believe if you say that these county commissioners can make reasonable regulations on that subject, it is what we want: and then let. the courts say what are reasonable regulations. But if you allow men with these large ditches, and digging out these large iiuantities of water, which they are doing all the time, and taking it out upon this arable land, then just as the gentlemen say. they make these men serfs. What the gentlemen that were standing with me wanted to do was to try to facilitate this irrigation by putting a small amount of tax upon these ditch men and saying that it should only be ui)on the income, upon what was the reasonable income, and then going right, to the county commissioners to regulate the use nf this water! so that these parties would not be serfs. I am not sure that the gentleman from Park voted against that proposition. \\'e wanted to put it on the ground that we were tr>ing to make nabobs out of the men who constructed irrigating ditches and make the men that owned the land serfs. Now. I am in favor of putting that in here, that the county com- missioners shall regulate the sale of wafer, and I believe that that is the way it ought to he. .Just as the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Major Maginnis. said about that matter, it was a tribunal that was near the people; it was not away from the people. .\nd you will remember. Major Powell spoke here about having water courts to determine about the use of the water, ^^■ell. now. the county commissioners having the power to deter- mine what was reasonable on this matter is a sort of special tribunal, a special court, to determine that matter: and I believe that if is a good place to have that power deposited — with the county commissioners — men that are elected by the people. .\nd I lio hope that the gentlemen who were so much afraid of exempting ditches from taxation — gentlemen here who are trying to build up the country and wanting it so that there could not be a monopoly of water, when these matters can be regulated by the county commissioners, will certainly vote to put this matter in. 900 I'UOCKKDI.NciS A.\l> I iKliAl'ES Mr. Parberry of Meagher: I would like to see the resolution iiilroiiuced by the gentleman from Deer Lodge, Mr. Robinson, on water rights— in re- gard to iiriority ot rights— considered in connection with this. Mr. M vers "of Yellowstone: Judge Knowles fully covered the ground I intended to make, and that is that Colorado is cited as authority on irrigation. The laws are considered in advance of any other State or Territory. We carefully considered tlie constitution of Colorado, .Nevada and other States that have both systems of irrigation, and decided tluU it was wise to introduce this in our constitution. It is almost identical with the constitution of Colorado, and I think we would make a great mistake and take one step backward if we fail to adopt this about as it came from the committee. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: If the remarks of my friend from Silver Bow county relate to Silver Bow county, whatever he said I endorse; but 1 fail to appreciate the application of his logical remarks. It reminded me of a story I heard down in Pennsylvania. When Carter and Gnxernor Somebody were down there speaking in the campaign of 1850 after they had Ijeen speaking a long while a I'ellnw drove uii with a keg (if whiskey; finally the crowd connnenced getting up and walking off, and there was one man left sitting on a pine stump opposite Carter, and another one with his head between his legs: and finally the fellow with his head between his legs pulled himself up and he said "I wonder what the H 1 that man is talking about: he seems to be an honest man." .\nd that's the way it is with my friend from Silver Bow. How, if I can get into my head the essence of what the gentleman said I think I can endorse it. It seems tc me he ought to come tn the [toini and let us know what we are voting on. Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I am in something of the same con- dition as my friend frimi Custer. I listened to the remarks of my friend fi-om Silver Bow very attentively, as I usually do, but I certainly could not see the point the gentleman was trying to make, and it .seems to me it sinnners down to this proposition; If the title to that land is in the United States Government, any action we take now does not iinalidate that title or give us any better title. If it is not in the government of the United Sfates, then I believe it should be in the hands of the legislature. Mr. Knowles of Silver Hnw; Suppose we memiiriali/e C(iii;.irestinn is nmv (ni the amendment ^n Ihe lunemlnient. that when the comniitlei' rise il n^pml back j'roposltinn .Xn. l'Ci willi llie reeoniendation that it he laid on Mic table. .Mr. Collins n! Cascaile: I liii|ic thai the motion will i-ai-i-\. W r Iimm; alreadv lO'ox ideij in Sccliiin \'> i<( oui' article on preamlile and Hill of Ri^ihls all tlial is necessary to lU'ovide or to say in the matter of water or water rights, and this section if anything is .solely legislation. Now, Sec- tion L' id' this ai-ticle the gentleman from Silver Row himself says should be sli'icken out. Section :i is identical with Section 15 of the Preamble and Bill of Richls, wlmli says that Ihe use and right of way over the land of others for all ddches. drains. I'lnmes. canals, etc., shall be a public use," and that covers particularly and fully Section 3. And it being a public >ise thi> Legislature has full power and authority to legislate in an\- manner il may see lit in the matter. Now, Section i is entirely CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 901 lepislatinn. Ni>\v. according (o my notion, if the Legislature hereafter should provide some law, according to the suggestion of Major Powell or Senator Stewart, and provide special officers for the purpose of niak ing I'egulations and distributins: this waler. then this Section 4 would forever be a bar to that. I believe that the Board of Comity Commission- ers of our great counties — counties extending over many valleys, over ni;iny rivers, over many s.treams, with diversified interests — should not bo the persons who are to be selected to make rules and regulations for the distribution of all the watei's of their large counties. I think the Legislatui'e should have the jjower at least to provide for particular officers to regulate particular irrigation districts. If you adopt this legislalion in Section i you forever bind the hands of the Legislature. I believe that the motion to di'fer this whole matter should carry, simply because we have adopted all the fumlamental law on the matter that we can adopt, in our Bill of Rights. All the rest is simply surplusage. If you don"t add anything, (he Legislatuie has full power and authority to do anything it pleases. The Chair put the rjuesfion on the amendment to the amendment, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. ;\lr. Warren of Silver Bow: I now move that \\v lommittee rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the motion, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN CONVENTION. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. Joy of Park: Mr. President, your Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition .No 20. Oeneral File No. 25. .\rticle on ii-rigation, and beg lea\e to report back the same to the convention with the recommendation that it be laid on the fable. The President: You ha\e heard the report of the committee. Wliat is the pleasure of the convention? Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge: I move the adoption of the report of the committee. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead calli'd for the ayes and nays. The President: If there be no ob.jection. the ayes and nays will lie entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: .-'>yes: Allien. Bickford. Breen. Browne, Burleigh. Burns. A. F.; Chess- man. Collins. Conrad. Dixon. Durfee, Eaton, Gibson, Goddard. Hammond, Harlman. Haskell. Hatch, Hickman, Hogan, Joy, Joyes. Knippenberg, Loud. .Mayger. Miildleton. Ramsdell. Rotwitf. Stapleton, Toole, J. R.: Winston. Mr. PresidenI — .■-i2. Nays: Buford, Burns. A. J.; Callaway. Cardwell. Carpenter. Cauby, Cooper, (^.ourtney. Craven, (iilletfe. Gra\es. Hershfield. Hobson. Kanouse. Kennedv. Knowles. Kohrs. Luce. Marrion. Marshall, Mitchell. Mvers. Par- berry, Schmidt. Warcn. Walson, Whitehill. Witter— 28. .-Absent: Brazlelon. Bullard. Burns. E.: Dyer. Fields, Ciaylord. Magin- nis. McAdow. Mnlh. Rrek. Robinson. Rickards, Sargent. Toole. J. K.: ^^'eb- sler — 15. Mr.TJurh-igh of Custer: I inoxe (hat the convention do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I wish to give notice that on tomorrow or some suliseq\ient day I will move to reconsider the vote by which the report of the Committee of the Whole was adopted. The Chair put the question on the motion to adjourn, and a Note being taken, the same was declared carried. Adjourned until Wpdnesday. .-Vugust 1-ith. 1889. at 10 A. M. 002 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES TIIIIMY F(H inn DAY. \Vcred pra.vci-. The Clerk read the journal of the iirevious day. Mr. Warren of Sihcr How ask(>d that the Chair minld, rule on the tjuotion as to whethei' a minority of the convention could pass any ordinances whntexei'. .Mr. \\ai'i-en said that it was his understanding that it required a majority of I he convention to pass any ordinance. The President:, ..To whi(di i-esohdion does the gentleman refer? Mr. Warren of Siher Bow: More particularly to the one unseating the county officers. .Ml'. Maginnis of Lewis l^ Clai'ke: I would ask for the reading of the rule of the convention which requires a majority. I\Ir. Hershfield of Lewis i*c Clarke: The reason that we w'ould like to fet a ruling of the Chair on this matter is that we notice in the reports from the other conventions in the other territories that unless a majority of the convention voted for a proposition to be inserted in the constitu- tion, they held that such propositions were not carried and could not he inserted in the constitution: and if their rules are similar to ours, we want to know. Mr. Maginnis of I^ewis & Chirke: I would ask the gentleman if their rules are similar to ours? Mr. Hershfielii id' Lewis & Clarke: We have a right to presume that the> are. The President: The Chair will take the matter luider advisement and rendei' a decision in due time. Mr. Callaway of Madison: It would perhaps lie a iiKitler of wisdom to decide the matter today. .If the Chair rules that it ri'quires a majority of the con\ention to pass an oi-dinance, we would want to move to leconsider. The President: The Chair will endeavor to look into the matter •-ery soon. There being no .\ssistant Sergeant-at-.\rms. the Chair will appoint Mr. Kerr to fill that position until he is required as a Clerk, His services are not particulai'ly needed in that dire(dion at preseid. The Chaii- has a comnninication from the librai'ian which will be read. The Clerk read as follows: "Helena, ^Imd., Aul-usI i:i ISSit. ''Hon. W. A. Clark, Presdent (Constitutional Convention. Helena. Moid. "Dear Sir: 'I'his society would like to keep and preser\e the photographs of the members of Ihe historic conxention over which you proxide. The arl isl says he will furnish, duly mounted and framed, cabinet-sized pictures of (he members of the conxention for .?15, and the officers (d' the convention in proportion. This would cost 20 cents each. If the gentlemen of the conveiilion xvill furnish their lilcenesses as above described, I xvill ari-mi-'e in pamphlet foi-m the biographii'al sketich of each as iiublished in the Helena papers fnr i-eference and preserve them xvith ihe iilmtngraidis. "Very respectfully. "Signed WILLIAM K. WHRKLER. l.'brariau." Ttie President; The Chair xvishes In call attention to this matter nnd no doubt the membei-s xvill gratify the librarian, as it is a matter of historical interest, as the librai'ian suggesls, and it is hoped the meinliei's xvill so consider it and act accordingly, Mr. Coo|ier of (iallatin: .Mr. Pi'esident. the C/ommillee mi Aiiporlion- iiienl and Represeidation is ready to re|)ort, and all but two nf Hi" comnii(te(> have sig-ned the report, and one or two are absent. We will present, the repiu't before the forenoon session is endeil. Mr. W;irren of Silver Hoxv: It is about time this committee made its reiiort and these copies xveri^ iirinted. inslead of xvaitinir till the end of this conxenlidii. I woidd like In li.'ixe Ihe I'epurt iirinted. and I make that motion. CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVENTION iaS9 1103 Mr. .Mauimiis of [.ewis Ot Clarke: I wmild ask it I Ik re is any rcimrt jjcl'oii' llio ronvciitiou. Till' I'residpnt: Tlipre is no report before the eonvention yet. -Ml-. Cooper of (iailatin: ^^'e will he prepared to make a report iluriiii,' the Ini-eiioon. . Mr. Hei-shfiekl: As 1 iiiiderstaiid it. the request nf the genlleiDnn froiti Silver Bow was to instruct this committee to send it to the printing cdinrnittee. The President: The Chair did not sd understand the motion. .Mr. Eaton of Park: l-nr inlnrmation. I would like to ask what report, if any, the Chairman id' the Ommittee on Apportionment did make tliis mornina. Yesterda\ he asked time or said in substance that that committee would be able to report this morning. I think he was on his fei't this morning, but I did not hear what he said. The President: The Chairman of the committee stated that the repoi-t was signed by all but two members, and that he would report during the morning session. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis iS: Clarke sent up a rescdution which the Clerk read as fidlows: Proposition relating t" the constitution. I'pon all iiues- tions submitted to the vote id' the taxijayers of the State or any political division thereof, women who are taxpayers and possessed of the qualifi- cations for the right of suffrage required of men by this constitution, shall, equally with men. have the right to vole. The President: This will he received ami referred to the Committee on Suffra,ge. if there be no objection. Ml'. Warren of Silver Bow: T would like to ask the Chairman of the special committee aiq^ointed to consider and repor't on the nn'morial presented here the other day, about what time we may expect a report. The President: \\\\\ the gentleman from Lewis Ot tllarke, the Chair- man of that committee, give the gentleman the information requested? Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: I do not think that is in order now. The President: The point of order is well taken. The order of select committees has been passed. Mr. ^\■arren of Silver Bow: I move that that memorial be taken up from that committee and another special committee appointed who will report. The motion was .seconded. The President: It has been mm rd and seconded that the special or select committee to which was referred the Warren memorial in relation to the taxation or duties upon imported lead ores, be taken from the committee which was appointed to consider it and another committee appointed. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: (iovernor Carpenter. sA divers and sundry times, has requested the committee to meet. This matter can be voted on in five minutes as soon as the committee can be got together. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I have an amendment to offer. I move that the committee lie instructed by this convention to report their action on the memorial at the morning session tomorrow morning. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I accept the amendment. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I trust no such action is intended as a reflection on that committee. Governor Carpenter, who is one of the most diligent, able and earnest members of the convention, is at the head of that committee and undoubtedly will prepare that report ami offer it in due time. Mr. Staplelon also is on that committee, and I know that the committee will act as soon as it is possible for them to do sn. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move that the motion just made be laid on the table. Mr. Burleigh of Custei': If I may be allowed to suggest, I would suggest that in order to pre\ent the interruption of the work of the convention, a dose of soothing syrup be administered to the gentleman from Siher Bow. Mr. Carjienter of Lewis & Clarke: I wish simply to say that we intended to have met yesteiday, but some of the members of the commit- tee got out of the house liefore the committee got together. We intended to have met after the morning session today, and hope to report this afternoon, unless somebody should object to a report being made on account of its not being in order. (Mil I'HOC.KKIH.NdS AM) DKl'.ATES Mr. Callawax nl' .MadJ.soii: I hail iKi thought whatsoever of ii'llccliiu' (III till' artioii iij' till' romiiiiltee i[i not reporting, hut you are aware, sir, that the clays are drawing very near when we will adjoiirii, and I t'nr one want to see some action taken iipnn this nieniorial. I therelorc wsnl it liriivight before the (•onM'iiiinn at a lime whi'ii it ean be considt'ri'd; but aftrr the explanation of the ^ientleman fmm I^ewis & Clarke, with the consent of my si"cond. I will withdraw my motinn. The President: The motion is withdrawn. Mr. (ioddard of Vellowstone: I would like to inquire whelher the article on scluHlule has been considei-ed. 'J'lie President: The Chair wnnld iiifiu'ni (lie i;eiitlemeii that il ba.s not. Mr. Uoddard nf Yellowstone: I nioxe Iheii. sir. tliat tlie convention I'esolve itself into Committee of the Whnle fur the consideration of gen- eral orders. The moliiin was secnnded. The Chair iiut tlie question lui the said motion, and a \iile beini; taken the same was declared carried. 'the President called Mr. Chessman of Lewis iK: Clarke In the (^hair. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. .Mr. Chessman of Lewis i.<: Clai'ke in the (Iliaii', The Committee was called to order. .Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I move we lake up Proposition No. 3H. The motion was seconded. The Chairliiaii: If there he im dbjeclinn. the committee will take up I'mposition .No. 38. The Clerk read Section 1 as follows: Section 1. All laws enacted by the Legislative Assembly of the Terri- tory of Montana and in force at the time the State shall lie admitted into the Union anil not inci.nisistent with this constitution or the constitution or laws of the L'niteil States of America shall be and remain in full force as the laws of the State until altered or repealed or until they exjiire by their own limitatii'n: Proxided, That wherever in said lavv.s the weirds "Territory" or "Territory of Montana" occur, the words "State" or "State of Montana" shall be appropriately substituted and read there- for. .And provided further that the duties which now by law devolve upon Probate .Jiidties as Jury (Jommissioners and in relation to issuing marriage licenses and filing and recording marriage certificates and the dutes as ex-officio clerks of their own courts shall, until otherwise pro- vided li\- law, dexdlve upon and be perfoi'med by the Clei'ks of District Coui-ts in their respective counties. And pro\ided. further. That the duties of Probate .Judges now imposed by law relative to townsites and to ttie afiproval of bonds of othei' couiily officers shall, until otherwise prinided by law, be performed by the District .Judges in the se\ cral coun- ties ill their respective districts. There being no amendment to Section I. the (^lerk read Section 2, as follows: Sec, 2. All lawful orders, jui|gm(>nts and deci-ees in civil causes, all contracts and claims and all lawful convictions, judgments and sentences in criminal actions, made and entei'ed, or ]u-onnunced by the courts within the Territory of Montana, and in force at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union, shall continue and be ami remain in full force in the State unaffected in any respect by the change from a Territorial to a State form of government, and may he enforced and executed under the law^s of the State. There being no amendment to Section L', the Clerk vr:\i\ Seclioii 3, as follows: Section 3. No crime or criminal offense commitled at;aiiisl the laws of the Territory of Molilalia shall abate or be in any wise affected by reason of the change from a Territorial tn a State form of government, but the same shall be deemed and taken to be an offense against the laws of the Stale, and the appropriate courts of the State shall have jurisdiction over and to hear and determine the same. Provided, That this section shall not in any wise be construed to change (he laws of Ihe statute of limit.ations or the due eff(>cl or application of the same. There being no amendments to Section ,3, Ihe Clerk read Section i, as liillows: CONSTITUTIOiNAL GUXYENTID.N 1889 905 Seef.ioii 4. Except as heroin otherwise provided the" word "District" shall be substituted and read in lieu of the word "Probate" in the terms "Probate Court" or "Probate .ludge" wherever the same occur in the laws of the Territory of Montana and all said laws which by their terms apply to Probate Courts or Probate Judges shall upon a changi> from Territorial to State Government be deemed and taken to apply to District Courts anil District Judges. Provided. That all laws allowing fees to I'robate Judges are hereby repealed. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I would suggest that at the end of Section •'i there should be inserted a clause providing that the terms of the Pro- bate Court, or the terms of the District Court, shall be as provided in this constitution, because this section as it appears to be here would make the terms of the District Coui'ts conform to the terms of the Probate Court as now established by law. The Chairman: Will the gentleman please send up his amendment in writing? Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: As soon as Section 2 was passed. I noticed something here omitted, and that is in relation to processes issued in the courts. It reads: "All lawful ordei's, judgments and decrees in civil causes." etc. I think the word "p['0cesses" shoulil be inserted after the word "decrees" in the first line. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: Section 9 covers it. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I think there is something in the sug- gestion of the gentleman from Yellowstone. Mr. Bickford of .Missoula: (Reading proposed amendmenfi ".\nd provideil further that the terms of the District Court shall be as in this constitution provided." Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: There is no provision in this constitu- tion. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: Yes sir: if you will refer to the r'eiiort of the Judiciary Committee, the courts have a right to fix the terms. and it is provided that they shall not hold less than four terms of court. Mr. Marshall of Missoula: The district court shall be always open. Mr. Bickford of .Missoula: .\nd in other counties it shall not be less than four terms per year, in each county. The Chairman: The gentleman from Missoula offers the following amendment: Insert after the word "shall" in line four. Section four, the words, "except as in this constitution otherwise provided". Mr. J. R. Toole of Deer Lodge moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: The first five words of Section i I think cover it — "Except as otherwise provided," etc. Then follows the language of the section. We have otherwise provided in the Judicial Article, Sec- tion 17. "The district court in each county, which is a judicial district by itself, shall hf always open for the transaction of business, except on legal holidays and non-judicial days. In districts where two or more counties are united, until otherwise provided by law. the district juilges shall fix the terms of coui't. provided that there shall he at least four terms a year held in each county." .\nd where it is otherwise pro^ided. the laws of the State, or the laws that now exist which were adopted bv the State, will have to conform to the provisions of this constitution. I\iy opinion is that this is a matter which is sought to be inferjecteil here as simply surplusage. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I would say that my amendment was offered for the jnirpose of makng the section certain and pro\ idinK" against that provision of the probate law which provides that the lei'ms (■f the Pr Clerk has a salary and certain fees now for transacting business in (he District Coui't. The Pr'obate Court is abolished and the dut.i(>s are all shifted over upon (he Clei'k of the District Court: and while this strikes out (lie salary pro\ ideil by law — such salary as then' may lie tor COiNSTITUTrONAL CONVENTION 1889 '.107 till Clerk of (111' I'ruliati' Couil — it is no mori' ttian ri^'lil that the foes which atteiiii tlial part ot' the adminisi ration of probate matters should he continued. Our Clerks are poorly enough paid now for the services they have to perform, and to saddle upon them all the duties of probate matters in adiiition. it seems to me would be a great act of injustice to them, and I for one cannot consent to it. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I wish to call the attention of the gentle- man to this fact, and that is, that there is a Clerk for each county, and yet he speaks about exorbitant fees. Now, in this county, why, of course "the fees for the Clerk of the Court, being Clerk of the Probate Court as well, will be pretty large. But then I would like to have the gentleman undirsfand the situation of affairs outside of this county and consider a county like Dawson or Fergus or Cascade or Choteau. Why, taking all of these fees that will be provided by law, the Clerk will get a very small compensation. The amount of business is not very large. Now. the gentleman speaks about the Judges. Why, we had three Judges to per- form all of the duties of the District Courts of the Territory: they had Clerks that were appointed foi- their districts: but now w^e have eight District Judges, and we gi\"e them .*3.5O0. while the other Judges only got .93.(.iO0 and their traveling expenses, as provided by the Legislature: and these Judges will perform no Supreme Court duties at all: so that it is not fair to make a comparison of this matter: and yet in two or three of the counties under the present fees the Clerks' fees will be pretty good, l)ut except in about three counties of the Territories the fees of the Clerks of the District Courts will not be very good fees. The office is now a small office, and heretofore the Deputy Clerks of the District Courts have frequently had to get somebody to perform the duties be- cause they had other business: they didn't stay in their offices all the time. I know in one or two counties that is tlie case, that the Cleik of the District Court w-as a person who had other duties to perform than those of Clerk of the District Court. Well, now. it is quite essential to have a man who will attend exclusively to the duties of the office of Clerk: that he will be in his office, so that when any person has any business to transact with the Clerk of the Court — the Clerk of the Pro- bate Court, and so on — they will find him there in his office that will be provided by law for him to hold, and I trust we will not strike out the clause allowing him fees for probate business. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I am certainly opposed to striking out the fees of the Probate Court in this section, for the reasons that havr' been mentioned by the gentlemen, and some other reasons. In the first place, as the judicial districts are now arranged, there is a Chief Clerk of the district, and each county has a deputy who is appointed by the Judge of the district: and most of these counties — in the small coun- ties at least— the fees of the Clerk and the Deputy Clerk of the District Court are very small, and I might say that tlie fees of the Clerk of the Probate Court are very small. This will be an elective office under the constitu- tion, and my understanding is that these fees provided for here only continue until they are changed by law. and I am satisfied that in order to get a good man for the office of Clerk of the District Court — and it certainly requires one of the best posted and the best skilled men that you can get in a county — in order to get such a man we will necessarily lia\e to pay him fees which will justify him in giving his entire time to the office; otherwise someone will be elected who has other bijsiness to attend to and consequently will be out of his office half the time. Again, under the provisions of this constitution, the Clerk of the District Court will be Clerk of the Probate Court as well, and it will necessitate his being in his office all the time, the same as any other county officer, inasmuch as all the probate business will be transacted by the Clerk — all of the clerical part — the issuing of all orders and everything of that kind, iiosting of notices, si-anting of letteers of administration and guard- ianship, and all of that kind of thing will be done in vacation by the Crierk. so that most of the \\ork will devolve on the Clerk, and certainly he should ha\e compensation to justify him m giving his entire attention to the duties of the office: and. as I said before. I am satisfied that the combine, I fees of the two officers will not hi' any more than the Clerk will be entitled to. I am not in fa\nr of paying more salaries than will properly compensate good officials, but I am in favor of paying good officials salaries commensurate with the services iierforined. 9o« I'Iu)(;i:i;ihm;s ami debates \lr. ijillms (iT Cascailr: 1 hnpi' ih:il IIh' aiiii'iidijii'nl nf thi' L-rii(lrmaii Iriiiii !,r\vls A; (Uarkc i Mr. llcrslii'ld will [lass. I bclii'M' llial racli Cli'i'k dl' llir l)islricl Coiu't receives sulficient salary williniit. addiiit: llierelo the lees ef Proliale Clerks. I'he Deputy Clerk ol' the District Court in each cc'Unty in this Territory having an assessed valuatinn of tlu'ce mil- lion dollars receives iiil.lW). That is not the District Clerks, hut the Deputy Clerks: and in addition to that they have fees. That is in accord- an( e with tlie law- passed at the last session of the Legislature. Now. before the session of the last I.,egisla^ure the Clerks were all satisfied with only fees alone, and the Clei'ks of the District Court, so far a.s 1 know, were perfectly satisfied and they all attended to the (tuties of their offices as competently and faUhfuUy as they do now witli the additional salary of One Thousand Dollars. Now, sir, we proNidc foi' a Clerk for each'eo\uity — a Clerk of the District Court; in all (d' llicsi' counties he receives a salary of One Thousand Dollars, and then he receives his $5 for filing a case" and ■$2.50 for filing an answer, in all amounting to .*7.50. ,\nd in addition to that he receives his fees for naturalization, his fees lor acknowleduing. his fees for swearing to papers, and his fees for every particular thing he does: and it seems to me that is plenty for the Clerk of the District Court, [f he swears a person to a claim against an estate, if an order is made in the case, or if there is a final ad.judica- tion of that case, he gets a fee for it: and I belie\e it is making a princely salary to allow these Clerks this increased compensation that they have ijeen allowed since the last session of the Legislature, and also allow them the princely fees charged by Clerks of the District Courts. Now. we all know that the fees of the Probate Clerks are extortionate, and whenever there is any business to speak of, too much money is ri>cei\ed from the people for those services. Take the large counties of Missoula and Silver- Bow and Deer Lodge and Lewis & Clarke, [ will venture to say right here —and no lawyer can contradict it— that if the Clerk (d' the District Court receives also solely the fees provided by law^ for Clerks of the Probati' Court, he will receive a princely salary — a good salary. Leave out entirely the amount of money received as (llerk of the Coui't as salary, and give him alone the fees prescribed by law for the Probate Court, and he will receive a good salary. Now, I say that openly and above boai'd. and the lawyers here are all conversant with it, and T ask them if that is not the'fa(d? You give them a good salary and you give Ihem good com- [lensation for the services they perfoi'm besides. Mr. Middleton of (>ustei-: 1 lliink if the gentleman from Cascade would take into consideration lln- entire situation and the small amount of compensation that is provided for in the way of fees for Clerks of Probate Courts — the small amomit of work that these new^ Clerks will liave to do in the way of probate matters, be would not be so sanguine of the Clerks receiving a good remuneration for probate fees. It is true that at the present time the Clerk of the Probate Court gets fees' in all criminal misdemeanors that are tried in that court and gets fees in all civil actions that are commenced in thi' court — a ci\il action can be com- menced in the Probate Coui't for any amount less than $r>l>0 — but the only fees thai the Clerk of the DistricI Court will get by reason of this addi- liinial charge or duty is simyily the fees in matters of the probate of an estate, or guardianship, and such things as that — simply in probate mat- tci's strictly, ^^'ell. now, the fact is that for the amount of work thai lias been done by a t;lerk of the Probate Court — the clerical work — the (•ompensation is practically nominal. I do not know of any other officer that is paid as little for tin- amount of work that he is required to do in a clerical wav as the Clei'k of the Probate Court in matters of pi-obale. Now. all of these other matters the Clerk of the District Court will have nothing to do with miless a civil aclioti should be commenced tiKM'e. So far a< ci-iminal nusiiemeanors are concerned, and the examination of offenders, those mailers will not go into the Distr-ict Coui'l at all: and in view of the fact that thi' slatide provides for these fei's— that Ihi- amo\uit id' work to be done is such that, th(> fees for its performance ai-e small — it seiMus to me that it would hi- wrong to insist that the Cli'rk of the District Oiurl should perform those duties without any compensa- tion. .My obsei-vation has been Ihat when you place an officer in a posi- tion where there are cerlain duties that he is requii'ed to perform for which he receives no remunei'alion. thai those matters are eilliec not attended to promptly or are not half pei'formed, I belie\i' hr slionM rei'eJNc jusi e\acll\- llie same compensal ion ;is is now pruNided li\ l:iw CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 909 lor Clerks nl' Probalf Courts; and if the Legislature tinds. pvcii at its rirst session, that in some of Un' laryer eouulies it is working a hardship and tliat the Clerks are gelling ni(U'e than they should get for their salaries, a differeni arrangeinent eaii be inadi' — a graduation ean be made as to the amount of business lo be Irausaetetl in each eounty or in eaeii district, But until that is done I think it will be a mistake to provide that the District Clerks should ha\e to perform these duties without the compensation now provided by law for Probate Clerks. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I heartily concur in all that has been said l)y my colleague in regard to the compensation that our Clerks, both of the Probate and District Courts, are entitled to. I know that until the last session of llie legislature the clerk of our District Court and the Clerk of our Probate Court in Custer County were not making a livelihood; Ihey were running in debt every day: and had not the legislature in- creased the compensation they would both have been compelled to resign their positions. Now, we have in Custer county a gentleman as District C.lerk who has been there for several years, and he is one of the most faithful and efficient clerks I have ever seen. He is as true as steel to every duty that has ever been entrusted to him. The duty under the circumstances of discharging the functions of the clerk of the district court and also of probate matters would fall upon him. It will be dis- coverd here that the salary provided for the probate court by the last Legislature in our county was -SSOO a year, and had not those provisions been made our probate judgi'. who is acting as e.xofficio clerk, would have been compelled to abandon his office, and but for the earnest solici- tation of his friends and the hope of an increase in compensation tiial had been held out to him. he would have resigned. Now, when my friend gets up and speaks about the princely salaries that these men receive, tlie compensation is all in his eye: there is nothing in it. It may exist in Lewis ifc Clarke Counly: it may possibly exist in Silver Bow County, and it may possibly exist in Missoula county. I am very sure it does not exist in Cascade County, and I am sure it does not exist in Custer county; and I am opposed to reducing the salary of any officer of this State soon to be to the miserable condition of being compelled to do his duty day after ilay ami week after week in the most responsible position, and realize that be has made scarcely enough at the end of the week lo carry himself and his wife and children over Sunday. I think if my friend from Cascade would look the whole Territory over and not let the vision of Lewis & Clarke and Silver Bow and Missoula county shine with such effulgence in his eyes, that he would look at it in a different light. I hope it will remain as it is and that the clerk of the District Court will receive the fees which he now receives as clerk of the District Court and also the fees less the salary which now goes to the probate court. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I just want to add one word to what has lieen said, and that is this: I am willing to admit that if it were in the power of any one man to perform the duties of clerk of the District Court with the added probate duties to if. then in Lewis & Clarke County he would have a princely compensation: but it is not within the power of any two men to perform the servires of that office when the probate business is added to it. If the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke had any conception of the duties that devolve upon the clerk of a probate court he would not have introduced this amendment here. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: How does the gentleman know he has not? Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: T know you have not, because no gentle- man who was familiar with it would possibly have introduced it. Nine- tenths of the duties of the probate court at the present time are performed by the clerk of that court. Every petition, every account, every order, evei'y letter of administration, every bond of every officer, administrators and guardians, have to he spread at length upon the records. So I pretend to say that there is no man — no one man — can perform the duties in Lewis & Clarke county relating to probate papers which enter into the settlement of probate estates: and I say that the gentleman is not fam- iliar with if because the duties have not made him familiar with it; a man in business is not supposed to be familiar with it. I never had anything to do with the banking business, and he has never had lanything to do with the settlement of estates and I don't know anything about it; and I say that those gentlemen who are familiar with that offfice know that 910 I'HOCKKDINGS AND DEUA TEiS no one man can perform the duties — no one man can perl'orni the duties in lialf of the counties. In our own county, where Ihei'c is not one-third of the business there is in this, it will take t-wo men to i>erform the duties of this office: and so I say it will be an imposition, and no competent man will take it unless these fees are allowed to remain alla<'hed tn tlii' nftii-i\ Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I suppose if the people of Montana were paying for the time of the gentleman that perhaps they would be compelled to jiay more for the time we have been discussing this question, than they will have to pay in the additional cost of fees. Now, let us see. Section 5, (Reading) "Clerks of District Courts until otherwise provided by law shall each perfurni the dulies and be entitled tn the same fees as nciw prd- vided by law for clerk of the District Court of the Territory, and until otherwise provided by law, shall also perform the services and be entitled to fees therefor that are now pro\ided for clerks and be entitled to fees therefor that are now provided for clerks of Probate Courts." How many days after this State shall have been admitted into the Union will it be before we will have a legislature that, if these fees are burdensome to the people, may otherwise provide by law. I think we are wasting too much time over small game. There is pretty large game ahead of us. I think we ought to get this constitution out in shape and get it before the people so that they can cast their votes in favor or against it as they see fit. But this is a very small matter, and I am of the opinion that there will have to be extra clerks provided in many of the large countie.s — in most of the counties, to perform the duties of probate court. The Chair put the question on the amendment offered by the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Hershfield) and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. There being no further amendments to section 5. the clerk read section 6, as follows: Section 6. Upon a change from Territorial to State government the seals in use by the Supreme Court and the Territorial District Courts in and for the several counties respectively, shall pass to and become, until otherwise provided by law, the seals respectively of the Supreme Court and of the District Courts of the State in such counties. There being no amendments to Section G, the clerk read Section 7, a> follows: Section 7. Pi'osecutions for criminal offenses against the laws of the Territory of Montana, pending at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union, shall not abate; but the same shall continue and be prosecuted in the name of the State of Montana, and the title of every action shall be changed to conform to this provision. There being no amendments to Section 7, the clerk read Section 8, as follows: Section 8. Parties who, at the time of the admission of the State into the Union, may be confined under lawful commitments or otherwise law- fully held to answer for alleged violations of any of the criminal laws of the Territory of Montana, shall continue to be so confined and held until discharged therefrom by the proper courts of the State. There being no amendments to Sec. 8, the Clerk read Sec. 9. as fnllows: Section 9. All writs, processes, prosecutions, causes of action, claims and rights of individuals, associations and bodies corporate exist ins at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union shall contimie and be respectively executed, proceeded with, determined, enfoi'ced and lU'otected luider the laws of the State. Thei-e being no amendments lo S(>('li(in 0, Ihe (Tlei'k read Serlinn Id. as follows: Section 10. All undertakings, bonds, (ihligations and I'ecogni/.nnces in fiirce at the time the Stale shall he admitted into Ihe TTnion which were executed to the TeiTitory of Montana or any officer thereof in his official capacity or to any official boai'd for Ihe benefit of Ihe Territory of Mon- tana, are hereby respectively assigned and transferred to the State of Atonlana, to Ihe State officer successor to said TeiTilm-ial officer, or lo th(> official board sU'Ccessfir to Ihe aforesaid official board for the use of the Slate, as the case may be, and shall he as valid and bindins- as if executed under- Stale law lo the Stale or State officer in his official cafiacity or official board for Ihe benefit of the Stale; and all fiiies. taxes, penalties and forfeitur'es due or owins' to tli(> Terriloi'y of Montana, or to any county, school district or nnuiicipality therein at Ihe lime Ihi' Stale shall hi' adnu'Ked into the Union, .-ire hei'eby respeiclively assigned and CONSTITUTIONAL C0N\T:NTI0N 1889 911 transferred and the same shall be payable to the State, county, school district or municipality, as the case may be, and payment thereof may be enforced under the laws of the State. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move to go back to Section 9 and on the first line, after the words "all writs, processes, prosecutions, actions and causes of action", etc. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. There being no amendments to Section 10, the Clerk read Section 11, as follows: Section 11. All property, real and personal, and all moneys, credits, claims, ilemands and choses in action of every kind, belonging to the Territory of Montana at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union, are hereby assigned and transferred to and shall be vested in and become the property of the State. There being no amendments to Section It. the Clerk read Section 12. as follows: Section 12. All obligations of the Territory of Montana, existing, in force and unpaid at the time of the admission of the State into the Union, are hereby assumed by the State which shall and will well and truly pay the same. Tliere being no amendments to Section 12. the Clerk read Section 13. as follows: Section 13. All matters, cases and proceedings pending in any Probate Court of the Territory of Montana, at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union, and all official records, files and other property of or pertaining to such court, are hereby transferred to the District Court in and for the same county, and such District Court shall have full power and jurisdiction to hear, determine and dispose of all such matters, cases and proceedings. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke sent up an amendment. The Chairman: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke proposes the following amendment: After the word "files" in line two. insert the word "moneys". The motion was seconded. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: It is covered by the words "and other property of or pertaining to such court." There cannot be any question about that. The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. There being no further amendments to Section 13. the Clerk read Section 11. as follows: Sectiim 14. All actions, cases and proceedings and matters which shall be pending in the Supreme and District Co\uHs of Montana Territory at the time of the adTuission of the Stale into the Union whereof the United States Circuit or District Court might have had jurisdiction had such court existed at the commencement of such actions, cases, proceed- ings and matters, respectively, shall be transferred to said United States Circuit and District Courts, respectively; and all the files, records, indict- ments and proceedings relating to such actions, cases, proceedings and matters shall also be transferred U^ said United States Courts: Provided. That no civil action, cause or proceeeding to whi-ch the United States is not a party shall be transferred to either of said United States Courts except upon written request of one of the parties thereof, and in the absence of such request such cases shall be proceeded with in the proper State Courts. There being no amendments to Section U. the Clerk read Section 1-5, as follows: Section 15. All actions, cases, proceedings and mattei's pending in the Supreme and District Courts of the Territory of Montana at the time the State shall be admitted into the Union and all files, records and indict- ments relating thereto, except as otherwise provided herein, shall be appropriately transferred, as may be proper, to the Supreme and District Courts of the State, respectively, and all such actions, cases and matters shall be proceeded with in the proper State courts. There being no amendment to Section 1.5. the Clerk read Section 16, as follows: 912 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES SocUoii Hi. Upon a chaiiyc Irdin Torriturial t.ii Slati' governnieiil. :iii'i until otlRTwisc provided by law, the great seal of the Territory sliall he deemed and taken to be the great seal of the Slate of Montana. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I nio\e that the coniniittee go back to See- tion 11 and at the end of the seetiou insert the words "of Montana", so that it shall read "of the State of .Montana". The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: So far w'e have proceeded wat.h other propositions to be placed in the constitution, thei'e are some matters that we thought should not pertain to our committee, and they have not been provided for, and perhaps now it would be w^ell to add the following sec- tion, to be numbered Section 17, which I will read myself, (Reading "Members of the First Legislative Assembly provided for by this constitu- tion shall be elected at the same time as is provided herein by ordinance for State and County officers, and shall qualify and enter upon the duties of their office at the date upon which they shall be conxened in Le^iisla- tfve Assembly by proclamation of the Governor of the State." Mr. Buford of Madison: I move the adoption of the s.ection. The motion was seconded. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I would suggest. Mr. Chaii-man. that the latter part of that is in the nature of a repetition of this article on legisla- tive departments, which provides, "That the First Legislative Assembly shall meet upon the jiroclamation of the Governor, after the admission of the State into the Union, upon a day to be named in said proclamation, and which shall not be more than fifteen nor less than ten days after the admission of the State into the Union." Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: Now. there is no provision in there for electing them at, the same time as these othoi' officers, and there is no provision for them to qnalitx. Mr. Kanouse of .Meagher: I think the Committee on Schedule havi' drawn a provision which will apply to that, although it is in the nature of a repetition of what is here. 1 think it is a matter for the Committee on Revision to determine which pai'ticular portion ought to be omitted. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: There are two particular propositions in this, and that is the date ijroviding the time they shall be elected, and the lime they shall qualify. Now, as you read that article, there is nothing there as to the time they shall be elected, or the time they shall qualify; but the time they shall convene you have provided for in that article. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: The time they shall convene and theii' duties are all covered by this provision. The Chair put the qix'slion on the adoption of said Si'ction 17. and a \ole being taken the same was declared carried. Mr. Knowles of Silxcr Bow: I have an additional section, to be muTibered Section 18, "The District .fudges and Clerks of the District Court shall qualify and enter' upon the duties of their respective offices within ten days from the date that the State shall he admitted into the Union." I move the adoption of that section. It was thought by the committee at the time we were together that it shoiihl pro\idi' how long the term of office should be foi' those first elected. The motion was seconded. Before the abo\e motion \\;is [lut to the cominilli'e and alter sonir aimless rambling and desultxiry discussion, Mr. t^iallaway moved thai thi' Committee of the Whole rise, reiiort progress, and ask li'a\e to sit again. 'I'lii' motion was sei'oiided, put to the hii\isi', and ileclared I'ari'ied. IN CONVENTION. President Clarl< in llie Chair. The convention was called lo ordei\ Mr. Ch(>ssman of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Presidenl. your Committee of the Whole liavi' had undei' consider'ation I'liqiosil ion .No. :i,S. have madi> some progress and ask lea\e to sit again. The Pi'esideiit: The Chairman of the Committee of the Wliole T'eport> that the sonnnittee have had under consideration Proposition .No. iiH. report progi-ess and ask leave to sil again. If there he no objection, lea\e will be so gi'anted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 913 Mr. Maygci' o[' Lfwis ^: (;iarkp: I move that the fouvciilidii take a recess until two n'clock. The I'resiik'iit: Bi'lnre Ihat motion goes before the house, I desire to state that (lie Chairman ot the Judiciary Committee was called home by the illness of on(> ot his children. He was appointed with two other members to assist the Committee on Revision and Phraseology. It is probable he will be absent se\eral days. The Chair will appoint Governor Carpenter from Lewis & Clarke to take his place. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: The Committee on Apportionment are now ready to make their report. 'lYie President: ^^'ill the gentleman witlidraw his motion for the pur- pose of receiving the report? Mr. Mayger of Lewis & Clarke: Yes sii'. The President: The Clerk will read the report of the Chairman of the Committee on Apportionment and Representation. The Clerk read as follows: PROPOSITION NO. iO. Article on .Apportionment and Representation. Introduced by Com- mittee on Apportionment and Representation. Walter Cooper, Chairman. (General Kile No. 337. Congressional Representation. Section I. One Representative in the Congress of the United States shall be elected from the State at large the first Tuesday in October in 1889, and thereafter at such times and places, and in such manner as may be prescribed by law. \Mien a new apportionment shall be made by Con- gress the Legislative Assembly shall divide the State into congressional districts accordingly. Section 2. The Legislative Assembly shall provide by law for an enumeration id' the inhabitants of the State in 189.5. and every tenth year thereafter; and at the session next following such enumeration, and also at the session next following an enumeration made by the authority of the United States, shall revise and a'djust the apportionment for repre- sentatives on the basis of such enumeration according to ratios to be fixed by law. Section 3. Representative districts m^ay be altered from time to time as public convenience may require. When a representative district shall be composed of two or more counties they shall be contiguous, and the district as compact as may be. .\o county shall be divided in the formation of representative districts. Section 4. Whenever new counties are created, each of said counties shall be entitled to one Senator, but in no case shall a senatorial district consist of more than one county. Section 5. The senatorial districts of the State shall be constituted and numbered as follows: The county of Beaverhead shall constitute the first district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Madison shall constitute the second district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Gallatin shall constitute the third disrict, ^and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Jefferson shall constitute the fourth district, and shall be entitled to one Senator. Thi^ county of Deer Lodge shall constitute the I'ifth district, and be entitled (o one Senator. The county of Missoula shall constitute the sixth district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county ot Lewis and Clarke shall constitute the seventh district, and be entitled to one Senator. Tlie county of Choteair shall constitute the eighth dis- trict, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Meagher shall con- stitute the ninth district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Silver Bow shall constitute the tenth district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Custer shall constitute the eleventh district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Yellowstone shall constitute the twelfth district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Dawson shall con- stitute the thirteenth disti'ict. and be entitled to one Senator. The countv of Fergus shall constitute the fourteeidh district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of I'ai'k shall cmistitute the fifteenth district, and be entitled to one Senator. The county of Cascade shall constitute lln' sixteenth district, and be entitled to one Senator. Section 0. Until an apportionment of re|iresentatives be made in accordance with the provisions of this article they shall be divided among (he several counties of the Slate in the f(dlowing manner: The countv 914 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES of Beaverhead sliall have two (2'. The cmiiily nf Madison .-ihall have two (2). The county of Gallatin shall have two '2 . The county of Jefferson shall have three (31. The county of Deei- Lodge shall have seven (7). The county of Missoula shall have five (5 . The county of Lewis & Clarke shall have eight (8. The county of Choteau shall have two (2). The county of Meagher shall have two (2). The county of Silver Bow shall have ton (IOj. The county of Custer shall have two" (2'. The county of Yellowstone shall ha\e one 1 . The county of Fergus shall have two (2i. The county of Park shall have two i2 . The county of Cascade shall have two (2''. The cciunties of Dawson and Cascade shall have one il) jointly. The counties of Deer Lodge and Hcaverhi'ad shall have one (I' jointly. The cnunties of Jefferson and Gallatin sliall have one (1) jointly. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention? Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I move to refer the report to the printing ciminiittee with instructions to print. The motion was seconded. The Cliair put the question on the said motion, and a vote heing taken, the same was declared carried. The President: Tlie motion now is to take a recess until two o'clock. Mr. Middleton of Custer; Before that motion is put, 1 would like to ask if it is the sense of the convention that these matter's, aftei' coming from the Committee on Revision and Phraseologj', shail he again printed before they are finally acted upon by the convention. It ha^s been sug- gested that that be done, although it seems to me useb'ss and a g-reat expense, and certainly a delay. The President: The Chair would suggest that it might be printed .in the form in which it is finally printed for distribidnn. Mr. ^^'arren of Silver Bow: I make a motion to that effect that the constitution as passed upon by the Revision Committep be [irinleil. The motion was secondeil. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis c'^ Clarke: I wouldlike to make a suggestion. I believe the Revision Committee can do tlieir work much more satis- factorily otherwise, bid, inasniuch as there will be many copies of this constitution printed for distribution, it might be well to su-ggest to the printer to keep his form standing, so that it may be altered or modified in such way as to save I'esetling it again. I move that be done. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I hope that the convention will not take any steps that will tend to delay, ^^'e have been hei'e now over forty days, and we want to get home; and if it is going to detain the members from the outside, I would object to it. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I hope the consideration of this matter will go over until after dinner, so that we may ascertain how much time it is going to take to get the priided copies before the convention. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I will withdraw the motion until after the recess. The Chair put the question on the motion to take a recess ludil 2 P, lyi., and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried, RECESS. Wednesday, Aiiriiist I'l. 18S9. 2 P. .M. Altcniooii Session. The Convi'Mlmn was calji'd Id urdcc li\' llii' I'l-csidi'id. The Clerk called llie roll. Mr. Kennedy asked to be excused until Saturday at 2 (/(dock. Ml'. BicUfiii'd of Missoula: Mi', Uamsdell wished to he excused for tlie day. The I'l'esidenl ; If lliel'i' be nn objectinii. Ilie-c geidli'liien will be e.xciised. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis >.t Clarke si'nt uij a ri'pdi't id' the Special Com- mittee on Memorial No. 2. The President: Thi' report id' llie Spei-ial ('.nnnnitlee wdl lie received and I'i'ad by the C.lei-k. The Clerk read as fnllnws: To llie Presnleid of the Coin eiit inn : 'i'lie Select Comnuttee to whom was referi'ed .Memorial No. 2 hereto annexed, respectfully repents that it has considered the siinie and recnmmends that said meinniial be arneiideil so as to read as follnws: '"I'liis ciuneidion i-espectfidl.v rails llie allerilinn of the Secretary id' the Treasurs In tlie CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 91o fad. that a ruling of tlic Treasury Department, under which imported ore, more \aluahle on account of the silver than the lead which it contains, is admitted free of duty, operates very injuriously to the mining interests of Montana, through the annual importation, duty free, of lead in the ore of the Aalue of several millions of dollars to compete with the American product.. This convention respectfully suggests that it was not intended by Congress to permit the importation of an immense quantity of lead free of duty, ani that said ruling, even if complying with the law, does not express theTrue spirit of the act of Congress imposing a duly upon lead ore; and this convention respectfully asks that said ruling, if the principle . of legal construclion will permil. be so modified as to follow the true spirit of the law. and requii'e a duty of one and tine-half cents per pound to be paid upon all imported ore containing such a percentage of lead as would, if admitted fr(>e of duty, tend materially to interfere with the min- ing interest of our own country." And that, so amended, it be adopted by this convention. (Signed^ B. P. CARPENTP^R, Chairman. Mr. W'arren of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the report of the committee, and also of the memorial. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Carpenter of TiCwis t*c Clarke: I will now move that the President of this convention transmit a certified copy of the memorial to the Secre- tary of the Treasury. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The President: There is a report by the Chairman of the Committee on Suffrage. If there be no objection, it will be received and read. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President: Your Committee on Rights of Suffrage, to whom was submitted Proposition No. .'39. introduced by Car- penter, beg leave to report that they have considered the .same and report it back with the recommendation that it do pass. (Signedi L. ROTWITT, Chairman. The Clerk read the resolution of Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke, refei-red to in the above report, as follows: Proposition relating to the constitution. Section Upon all questions submitted to the vote of the taxpayers of the State or any political division thereof, women who are taxpayers and possessed of the qualifications for the riglit of suffrage required of men by this constitution, shall, equally with men, have the right to vote. .Mr. Collins of (Jascade nioxed the adoption of flic report of the com- mittee on said resolution. The motion was seconded. The ayes and nays were called for on the motion. The Chair announced that, (here being no objection, the ayes and navs would he entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Breen, Browne, Bullard, Burli'igh. Burns. .\. J.: Callaway. Car- penter. Cauby, Chessman. Collins. Cooper. Fields. Gillette. Goddard. Hatch, Hickman. Hobson. Joy. Kanouse. Knippenberg, Knowles. Loud. Luce. Mc .\dow. Mvers. Parberrv. Rotwitt. Rickards, Sargent, Toole. J. K.: \Varren, Watson. Witter. Mr. President— 34. .\ays: Aiken. Buford. Burns. A. F.: Cardwell, Courtney. Craven. Dur- fee, Dyer. Eaton. Gavlord. fiibson. Craven, Hammond, Hartman. Haskell. Hershfield. Hogan. Mai'rion. Marshall. Mavger. Middleton. Mitchell. Reek, Schmidt. Whitehill. Winston— 26. Absent: Bickford. f-ir'azleton. Burns. Ed: Conrad. Dixon, Joyes, Keri- nedy, Kohrs. Magirmis. I\luth. Ramsdell. Robinson, Stapleton. Toole. J. R.: Webster — 15. The Chair announced the motion carried. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I move you now. that the vote by which that resolution carried be reconsidered, and that that motion be laid upon the table. The nidtion was si'Cdnded. iil6 PR0CEEDIN(i8 AND DEBATES The Chair [jul tin- qiii'stidu cui thi' saiil iiiiiliiui. ami a \i)ti' hi'ing taken, the same was derlarod carried. The Ghaii' aniiDunced thai the resolvdimi ol't'ered by the gentleman from Lewis i*i: Clarke (Mr. Caipentei- had heen adopted as a jiart "f Ihe constitution of the State of Montana. Mr. .Middleton of Custer: The Comniitlee on Enprossmeut and Eiu-nli- ment desire to make the following- report: The Clerk read the said report, as follows: Mr. President: Your Committee on Engrossment and Enrollment, to wliom were referred Propositions Nos. 18, 33 and 36, beg leave to report that they have compared the engrossed copies with the originals and find each of said propositions correctly engrossed. (Signed) MIDDLETON, Chairman. The PresitlenI : If there be nn objection, the report of the committee will be received. Mr. Warren of Siher Bow. In connection with the printing of the different articles just passed bj' the convention and which ai'e now in the hands of the Committee on Revision and Phraseology, I will state that it is very doubtful if lliey could have i)rinteil what we would require in less than a week. .Mr. Middlelon of Custer: 1 would say, in that connection, Mr. Presi- dent, that the Chaii-man of the Committee on Printing being absent this moriung. if devolved upon myself to ascertain how quick tliis could possibly be clone. The "Independent" office told me they could not get it out in less than a week and perhaps ten days. The "Journal" office state they could possibly get it up in six days, and it woulil probably be eight or ten days befoi'e it could be put in th(> hands of the convention. In view of that fact, it seems to me that it would be a great delay for this convention to prelend to have this niall"i' reprinted before it is finally adopted by the convention. The Presidenl: I lielie\e the cnnx I'niiiin had under discussif)n the reports of the (Committee on Revision and Phraseology, and the question of pi'inting was consid''red and postponed. It is now stated by the Chair- man of that committee that it would be impossible to get this done in time. Ml'. Cooper of (lalialin: I would like to inquire if the Committee on Revision and Phraseology have kept their work up as far as it has been engrossed. Mr. Wari'en of Silver Bow: I would say that thei-e has been no formal meeting of the Committee on Revision and l^hraseology as yet. Tlie dif- ferent subjects so far printed ha\'e been referreil to the Chairman of tile committee who went thrcmgh and corrected it, and there were different members of the Revision Committee who went over it afterwards, and I would say that everything up to now has been gone over not less than three times by some member of I he committee or the Chairman of the committee in which if originated: and about the only thing to be consid- ered in connection with it is the conflict of articles, which could be reail over in the full commit lee and wherever a conflict appears it should be reported. I think we can do the work in one day anyhow. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I ask unanimous consent of the convention to recvH' to Pi'opositioii No. b'i. article on boundaries. Section one I'eads "The botuidaries and jurisdiction id' the State of Moidana shall be as follows, lo-wit". 'I'lu' lef;al proiiosilion has arisen as In wheltier we ouKhl not to exidude the words "and jui'isdiction", and after consulting with a number' of lawyiM's and judf^es on Ibis question, I am satisfied that the woi'ds "and jurisdiction" should be stricken out, for the reason thai we have Indian reservalinns iti Montana and the United Stales government has exclusiNc jtu'isdicfion over Ihe I'eserxntions. Therefore, I n-iove t(i |)ass the ai'ticle by unanimous consent, omitting (he words "and jurisdiction". I lalked with the Chairman of the .Indiciary (lonmiiltee and oilier gentlemen, and I am of (h(> opinion t.liat (hose words are wrongfully in this proposition. The President: .\re lliere any objecdons to the gentleman recni'ring to this subject ? Mr. Eaton of Park: I oiii\ rise (o sa\ llial this ser-nis (o hi' n legal projiosilion, bu( as a ma(tei' id' rac( (hat aniendnienl was offered originally and idenlically for (he reason Ihal (In^ ^:entlemai-i now offers it. Of course, if le;;al iit;h(s have brought their knowled;;e lo beai' and are now id" a differeni opiiuon. I suppose il i,s all ri^ihl: but i( seems vei'v strange that when the same tiling; was offered at Ihe lime, it has taken all Ibis time In ari'ix I' al. Ibis conrlusion. CONSTITrTIOXAL CONVENTION" 1889 917 Ml'. Kiiowies of Silver How: I would state that at the time this was taki'n up, tliis communication from the War Department in relation to tlie Military Reser% ations, ami afti'r tliat was presented it modified tiie opinion of the lawyers. Tlie constitution, or the article, as it now reads, provides for a .jurisdiction that we liavi' conceded and relinquished, and we hati better, as far as we can, keep any conflict out. If we leave thai in it will raise the iiuestion that there is a conflict in the constitutiini. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I move that the words in the first line of Proposition No. 13, "and jurisdiction", be sti'icken out. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote bein.s taken, the sanie was declared carried. Mr. Rickafds of Siher Bow: I would like to ask. inasmuch as this amendment has now been adopted, whether it will be necessary to adopt the original proposition as amended. The President: 1 think the ayes and nays ought to be taken on this, inasmuch as it is a part of the constitution. The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Bickford, Breen. Buford, BuUard, Burleigh, Burns. .\. I-".; Burns, A. J.; Callaway, Cardwell. Carpenter. Cauby, Chessman, Collins. Conrad, Cooper, Courtney, Craven, Durfee, Dyer, Eaton, Fields, Gaylord, Gibson, Gillette, Goddard. Hogan, Joyes, .Joy. Kanouse. Knippenberar, Knowles. Kohrs, Loud, Luce, Marrion, Marshall. Mayger. .Mc.\ilow, Middle- ton. Myers, Parberry. Reek, Rotwitt, Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt. Toole, J. K.: Warren, Watson, Whitehill. Winston, Mr. President — 61. Nays: None. Absent: Brazleton. Brown, Burns. E.: Dixon, Kennedy, Maginnis, Mitchell, Muth, Ramsdell, Robinson. Staplefon. Toole. .J. R.: Webster, Wit- ter—li. The President: Thi- uKitiun prevails and the proposition as amendi'd becomes a part of the constilutinn of the State of Montana. Mr. .Middleton of Custer: I move you that the Committee on Revision, etc.. be instructed to make thi' amendment in the enrolled copy. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the questisolution by Mr. ^^■instlln of Deer Lodge ('ount>' in discussing the article on Legislative Departments. I believe he introduced an amendment to the i-eport of the committee to the effect that a majority of all the mem- bei's elected to either house should constitute a requisite niimlier to CONSTirrTIOXAI, C.O.WEXTIDN 1889 921 pass anv bill. This received su small a vote in Committe of the Whole, and was voted dowii by so large a majority, that the gentleman did not renew the amendment, when the matter was brought up for the consider- ation of the convention. Hence, the chair would rule, that it being an established law governing both houses of Congress, provided for by the constitution of the United States, and the sense of this convention having been unmistakably in favor of the adoption of that principle, the chair would rule that a majority of a iiuonun is sufficient to pass any propo- sition that is before this convention for consideration. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I ask unanimous consent to take up and consider the following resolution. The clerk read as follows: "Resolved, That the time in which the chief stenographer shall file his transcript of the proceedings of this convention in the office of the secretary of the State or Territory, as pre- scribed in resolution No. 7 of this convention, be, and the same is, here- by extended to the period of one hundred and ten days from and after the adjournment of this convention. Hr. Hershfield of Lbwms & Clarke: I object to the consideration of this proposition. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I would ask the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke what is the object of this resolution? Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: It is simply this, that the sten- ographer informs me that the debates have been extended very much longer than was expected, and that the labor will be so much greater than anticipated that he might not be able to transcribe into long-hand the records of the convention within the time prescribed by the first reso- lution. That it is his purpose to do it just as rapidly as it can be done and to place it with the Secretary of the Territory at the earliest mo- ment practicable: but in the event he should not be able to do so, he simply desires the resolution passed in order that he may be profeicted, as time seems to be of the essence of the arrangement. That is all. He is not asking for any delay except as a matter of protection in the event it iH'comes necessary. I move the adoption of the resolution. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin seconded the motion. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: The reason of my objection is. that there is one hundred and ten days in addition to the time of the session of the convention, at thi' salary wliicli the convention assigned ti the voung man — $15 a dav — which would be $16-50. Mr.' J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: The S15 a day only applies to the time the convention is in session. The chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke (Mr. Toole and a vote beinjj taken, the same was de- clared carried, and the resolution adopted. The President: The chair is informed that the Hon. L. H. Hole from South Dakota, a member of the South Dakota Constitutional Convention, is present; and if there be no objection the jirivileges of the floor will 111' extended to the gentleman. Mr. Middlelon of Custer: Mr. President, the Committe on Engross- ment and Enrolln>ent desirce to make the following report. The Presidi'Ut: The clerk will reail the report of the chairman of the Committee on Engrossment and Eni'ollment. Tlie clerk read as follows: Mr. President, Your Committee on En- grossment and Enrollment to whom was referred Proposition Xo. 39. .\r- tide on \\'oman Suffrage, beg leave to report the same back correctly enrolled. (Signed MTDDLETOX. Chairman. The President: If there he no objection, this will be received and referred to tiie Committee on Revision and Phraseolog>\ Mr. Maginnis of Lewis i^ Claike: Mi-. President: On the ^lart of the Special Committee. T am infructed by the gentlemen of the committee, composed of the members of the Committees on Schedule and Ordin- ance, to make the following reports: We have not changed in any manner any matter passed upon by the convention, but we have divided the ordin- ance into two articles: One. the article or ordinance on election, that being temporary in its character and referring only to the next election: and seeond. the article on federal elections, which being permanent in its character, we have embodied in a separate article. We liei: l(^a\e to present our report. The Clerk read the said report as follows: 922 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES ARTICLE Ordiiiaiici' on Federal Relations BE IT ORDAINED. First: That perfect toleration of religious sen- timent sliall be secured and ttiat no inhabitant of the Stale of Montana shall ever be molested in person or property, on account of his or her mode of religious worship. Second: That the people inhabiting said State of Montana do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappro- priated public lands lying within (he boundaries thereof and to all hinds lying within said limits owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes, and that until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to tlie dispusilion of the I'nited States, and said Indian lands shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and control of the Congress of the United States. That the lands belonging to citizens of the United States residing without the said State of Montana .shall never be taxed at a higher rate than the lands belonging to residents thereof. That no tax as shall be imposed by the said State of Montana or lands or property therein belonging to or which may hereafter be purchased by the United States or reserved for its use. But nothing herein contained shall preclude the said State of Montana from taxing as other lands are taxed any lands owned or held by any Indian who has severed his tribal relations and has ob- tained from I he United States or from any person a title thereto by patent or other grant, save and except such lands as have i)een or may be granted to any Indian or Indians under any act of Congress con- taining a provision exempting the lands thus granted from laxalinn: but said last named lands shall be exempt from taxation by the said State of Montana so long and to such extent as such act of Congree may prescribe. Third: That the debts and liabilities of said Territory of Montana shall be assumed and paid by said State of Montana. Fourth: That provision shall be made for the establishmeni and maintenance of a uniform system of public schools, which shall be open to all the children of said State of Montana and free from sectarian control. Fifth: That on behalf of the jieople of .Montana we. in convention assembled, do adopt the constitution of the United States. Sixth: That the ordinance in this article shall be irrevocable with- out the consent of the United States and the people of said State of Montana. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I suggest that the following be an additional ordinance to go into the article next to the last section. The clerk read as follows: The State hereby accept the several grants of land from the United States to the State of .Montana men- tioned in an act of Congress entitled "An Act to provide for the division of Dakota into two States and to enable the people of North Dakota. South Dakota. Montana and Washington to form constitutions and State governments and to be admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original States and to make donations of public lands to such States", approved February 22nd. 1889, upon the terms and conditions therein provided. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis A C.lai'ke: I iimxe I he aduiilinu nf Ihat as an additional section. The motion was seconded. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I ask the gentleman, why not let it go in in lis regular place? .Mr. Magiimis of Lewis it Clarke: Simply because Ibis makes il irrev- ocable without the consent of the govermiieni and we lliciught il ought to be the last paragraph. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: There is no I'equirement in the Knabliiig Act that this ordinance should be ii'revocable. It might save some time en- grossing this. I understand these are all engrossed. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Well, I have tki (ibjeroval of the President. I think it will meet with his hearty ainirobation. He will say this is another indication of the fitness of this people for self-government. Now, my friend got up. as he usually does, always replete with good sound sense, and yet he didn't come up quite to the mark. They have had moi'e trouble in Custer coimty by these people fording the Yellowstone River at low water to get out of the reach of the assessors tliere. than I ha\e the time to enumerate: and I merely suggest this matter to the convention. If I am in error I will yield gracefully to the better judgment of this convention. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: So far as my information goes, I will say that I have investigated that matter to the full extent of my ability, and that I undertook at one time as the counsel for the Board of County Commissioners of our county to collect taxes by suit for Yellowstone county on the property on the Crow Reservation, and it was a signal failure. I advised the Commissioners before I went to argue the case that we could not succeed, for the reason that the Crow Indian Reserva- tion is no part of Y'ellowstone county, of Gallatin county or Custer county, and the Territory of Montana is as |iowerless to legislate in re- lation to the jurisdiction of the Crow Reservation as they are on the Northwestern Territory in Canada, because the Territory has no jurisdic- tion over the Crow Indian Reservation. IVow, so far as the g'entleman's argument goes in relation to the retention of the stock, he is mistaken about that. It is simply unfounded, because they pay more for the privilegi' of grazing their stock ovei' there than they would have to pay for taxes if they kept them in the county. Every man pays oO cts. a head. Every man who has sheep on the Indian reservation pays 10 cts. a head which is more than a tax would be if they would remain in the county: and tliat is not the reason — for the purpose of evading the tax but for the (lurpose of getting the privilege of grazing over there which they do not have in the crowded districts down in that S(>ction of country. Now. the case I refer to was argued at some length before ,Iudge McCleary. and he ilecided Ihat stock on thi> reser\ation was not taxable in Yellow- stone comity l)ut he hinted that it miiglit be taxed in (Tuster County: but I believe that every lawyer in this coinentifin woulil agi'ee with me that th(> legislature of this Territory is powerless lo legislate in regard to the jurisdiction on the reservation and especially the Crow Reser vation, in as much as that treaty with that tribe is tiifferi'nt from al- most any other treaty I know anything about. So fai- as I am concerned. r would be very glad if some arrangement could he made, some legisla- tion bail, by which all llie pi-opiM'ty of this Territory which is protected CONSTITUTIONAL CONVEN ITON 18811 927 by the laws of the Territory should bear its burden of the taxation. But to undertake to do a thing of this kind when it is absolutely absurd and ridiculous, is simply acknowledging our ignorance of the law and we would become the laughing stock of everybody in the country. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I rise to a point of order. As I vmder- stand, it required unanimous consent to introduce this resolution. The President: The consideration of the question was had by unan- imous consent. There was nothing stated about the debate. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: That matter is debatable then. I move the previous question. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I suppose we all agree with the purpose of the gentleman from Custer in this resolution. As there is a divergence of opinion as to its effect upon the contract between the United States and the Territory, and as we all hope that when we get a delegation from the State that they will follow the lines of the Delegates — and I am sure I can say for myself and for my successor, Mr. Toole, and for the present delegate, Mr. Carter, that they have all asked to cut down these .Military and Indian reservations. I believe that no military reservation should extend but one mile from the flag staff, and I believe the Indian reservations should be cut down to the actual needs of the Indians: and I hope that our delegation in Congress will have the force and power to effect that great boon for Montana. I ask mv friend to withdraw the resolution. .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I will withdraw the resolution. The President: The ordinance is pa.ssed upon, and the next in the order of business is unfinished business. Mr. Eaton of Park: I move that we go into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition on Schedules. The motion was seconded. The chair stated the motion. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I understand the proposition on Schedules is in the hands of a Committee and not in the hands of the convention. The President: The gentleman is correct. I would ask the gentleman what was done with the schedules? Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: The committee met. reported progress and asked leave to sit again. We have a lot of amendments that we are trying to put in order so that we may bridge over the difficulties. The President: It was recommitted for the purpose of having those mattei's straightened out. Mr. Knwoles of Silver Bow: It was only the ordinance. The President: Both were recommitted. The minutes show thnf Proposition No. 38 was recommitted to the Committee on Schedules. The minutes further read that -T. K. Toole asked vmanimous consent that Prop- osition No. 33. Article on Ordinance, be reconsidered for the purpose of harmonizing it with the Ordinance on Schedule, with the understanding that the express views of the convention on the Article on Ordinance be not interferred with. On motion unanimous consent was granted foi' the re- consideration. The committee on Ordinance, the Committee on Schedule and the chairman of the Executive Committee were made such committee. Is the chairman of that committee ready to report the .\rticle Back again? In order to conform to the minutes, it. should show that it was returned hack and then taken up by the committee of the whole. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow; I move we resolve ourselves into Com- mittee of (he M'hole for the consideration of Proposition .\o. iO. The President: There is a motion pending that the convention re- solve itself into committee of the whole for the consirleration of another proposition. Mr. Eaton of Park: I understand the chair rules that my motion is still pending. My own personal opinion is, Mr. President, that we had better clean this business up and save these odds and ends. The chair- man is about ready to report. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: T withdraw my motion The President: The question now pending before the convention is that we resolve ourselves iido Cnnimitlce of the ^^'hole for the consid- eration of Proposition No. 38. Mr. Ri(dd that- proposition, would respectfully iei)ort that they have considered the matter and do hereby n'port back the said propostion with the recommendation that the additional sections added to such section in proceedint-'s of Oimmittee of the \\'holc and Sections 17 and IS preseided her'ewifh lie added to said proposition. ("Signed;) HIRAM KNOWLES. Chairman. The President: If there be no objection, this report will be received and filed with the proposition to be considered in the Conmiitteec of the Whole. The question now before the convention is that the convention resolve itself into Committee of the \Miole for the consideration of Projiosilion No. 38. 'J'he Chair put the said question, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. Mr. Chessman of I,ewis it Clarke in the Chair. The committee was called to order. The Chairman: The committee had unrler consideration a proposed section to be numbered Section 18. The proposed section had already been adopted, and we now have Section 17. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: The recommendation is that those two adopted be stricken out. The recommendation of the Committee on Ordi- nance now covers what was sought to be remedied by these two sections, and so I hope that this \\'\U be stricken onl, and (hat these two sections as I'eported will be adopted. Mi-. Witter of Bea\erliead: T ask llial the sections as reported by the committee be read. The Clerk read as follows: Section 17. All territorial, county and townsni]) officers now occupying their r'cspective positions under the laws of the Territory of Montana or of the United States of America shall cortinue and remain in their respecti\e official positions and perfoi-m the duties thereof as now provided by law after the State is admitted into the Union and shall be considered State officers until their successors in office shall be duly elected ami qualified, notwithstanding any incon- sistent provisions in this constitutii.m, and shall be entitled to the same comrensaf ion foi- theii' servii'cs as is now established by law. Proxideil tha;, the compensation for Justices of the Supreme Court. GoviM-nor and Secretary of the Territory shall be paid by the State of Montana. The Chairman: ^^"hat is your pleasure? Mr. burleiffh of Custer nio\ed the adoption of the section. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and a \ote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Ilaitman of Gallatin: There are two sections which have not be 'Ml stricken out vet. It seems to me a motion would now be in order to strike out Sections 17 and 18 as adopted for the purpose of allowing these to come in. T move therefore that Sections 17 and 18 as adoiit(>d bv the Committee of the ^^'■hole on yesterday be stricken out. The motion was seconded. Thi' Chair put the question on the said motion and a \(ite beioL' taken. the same was declared cari'ied. The Clei'k read Section IS as follows: Section 18. The (ioxcnior of Montana shall, as soon as llie Stale of Montana is admitted into the I'nion. issue a proclamation requiring the Legislative .\ssembly to convene as such at such reasonable times as may be designated in his proclamation. Mr. Buford of Madison moved the adojition of the section. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on IIh' said niolion. and the same was dechu'ed carried. Mr. Eaton of ParU: I nio\e llial the committee do now arise. Ml'. Cj'aven (d' Lewis \ Clai'ke: Tlier(> is a matter which, with the consent of the conveidion, I would like to bring to the attention of the conunittee. I think in Section one of the article providing that wherever th ' word "Territory" or "Territory of Montinia" occurs ni the statutes the words "Stale" or "State of Montana" shall be .substituted therefor. This CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 929 provision docs not go far enough, for in certain sections of the revised statutes of our Territory we have the term "Montana Territory" as well as the term "Territorj- of Montana", and that phrase ought to be sub- stituted. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I think the gentleman is correct. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: I move you. Mr. Chairman, that in line two after the first word "'l'eiTiliir> " the woi'ds "or Montana Terri- tory" be substituted. The motion was secondi'd. The Chair put the quest i(in on I lie said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Hi(dvmau of .Madison: I mo\e that whi-n the committee rise the (;hairman be instructed to report the articl(> back with the recommenda- tion that it be passed as amended. ■J"he motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I mo\e tlie committee now rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, tiie same was declared carried. IN CONVENTION. I'lesideid. Clark in the Chair. Thi' convention was called to ordei'. Mr. Chessman of Lewis it Clarke: Mr. President, your Committee on Proposition No. 138 have had the matter under consideration, have amend- ed it in se\eral particulai's, and as amended the committee recommend that it do pass. Mr. Cioddaril id' Yellowstone: I mnye that tlie convention proceed to the consideration of the amendments. The motion was seconded. The t^hair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read the amendments offered by the Committee of the Whole as follows: Amend Section one by inserting after the word "Terri- tory" on line four the words "Montana Territory". Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The I'.lerk read as follows: Amend Section 4 by inserting after the word "shall" on line four the words "except as in this constitution other- wise provided." Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke nioved khe adoption of tlie amendment. The /notion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 9 by inserting after the word "prosecutions" on line one the word "actions" and by striking out the word "actions" on the same line and inserting in lieu thereof the word "action." Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke moved the adoption of the amendment. 'Ihe motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 11 by adding after the \Aoi'd "State" on the last line the woi'ds "of Montana". .Mr. Hickman of Madison moved the adoption of the amendment. "Ihe motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Amend Section 1.3 liy inserting after the word "file.s" on line two the word "moneys". Mr. Hickman of Madison moved Ihe adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. Thi> Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. 930 PROCEEDINGS AKD DEBATES The Clerk read as lollows: Amend Soetiou 15 by striking out the word "States" on line five and insert in lieu tiiereof the words "State courts." Mr. Hickman ot .Madison nioNcd Ihe adoption of the anienchnrnl. The motion was seconded. The t;iiair put the question on the said motion, and Ihe same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: AmeniJ the proposiliou hy addiny therc^to the iollowing, to be numbered Section 17. Section 17. .\11 Territorial, county and township officers now occupying their respective positions under the laws of the Territory of Montana or of the United Seates of America shall continue and remain in their respective official positions anil perform Uie duties thereof as now provided by law after the State is admitted into the Union, and shall be considered State officers until their successors in office shall be duly elected and qualified, nulwith- standing any .inconsistent provisions m this constitution, and shall ije entitleii to the same compensation for their services as is now i-stabl'shed by law. Provided, That the compensation for Justices of the Suiu'eme Court, Governor and Secretary of the Territory shall be paid by the State of Montana. Mr. Middleton of (juster. I ha\e an amendment which I wish to offer. Th(> I'resident: 'J'he gentleman from Custer offers the following amendment: Amend Section 17 by inserting after the word "qualified" the following, "as provided by ordinance". Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I move the adoption of the aniendmi'iil. The motion was seconded. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I accept the amendment. Mr. .'(ickaids (d' Silver Bow: I do not wish to appear cai)tious about this matter but with all due respect to Judge Knowles, it does seem to me that lh(! wording of this section, inasmuch as there is no exception made, is not altogether proper. How can we make the United States Marshal a Slatt officer? It says "all United States Marshals". Mr. iinowles of Silver Bow; You are correct about that. Add after "all Territorial officers" the words "the United States .Marshal and United States .Vttorney". He is nothing but a United States Marshal. He might be considei'ed a Teri-itorial officer. But still it ought to go in there so that there will be no dispute about it. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I rise to a point of order. There is nothing before the con^•ention. The amendment of the gentleman from Custer County — (interrupted ' . 'J'he I'resident: That has been accepted. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move we take a recess until twn o'clock. The President: The amendment offered by the gentleman from (jUster County as read is an anjendment to the amendment offered by the Committee of the Whole, and of coiu'se that is now before the conven- tion. ,AIr. Mi several assessments, and a .judgment was rendered against him for some $l(i,00fl and that judgment sustained by the Supi-eme Coui-t of Minnesola. upon fill' theory that the money being in the Stati' id' .Mimiesota, that was the proper place where it should be taxed. The opinion is i|uite an exhaustivi' ime and settled that i)i'incipl(^ so I'ai- as that proxjsion nf tin' Siatnte is cnncerned: anil in iii\ judgment the iiroper ]ilace In tax prop- CO.NSnTLTlONAL CUNVEMION 18,sy _ 93;i eily is nol wlirri' llie owner is liiit wlii'it- tho property may bo lound, except as otliei'wise proxidcd in the Statute: and I do nol see anyg^ood reason wliy this amendment sliouid be made. Ttie eluiir stated tlh' question. The eb'rli read tlie proposed amendment. .Mr. Hoyan of SiKer Bow: Now. I lor one object to turning back to those iiropositions. I think if we adopt this mode nf pi'oeedure we are liable to be here for a long time. Now, I am one that certainly objects to the consideration of this proposition. Mr. Hickman of Madison madi' the point of oi'ilcr tliat the gentleman did not make iiis objection in time. The President: The point of order is well taken. The objection to the consideration of a question must be made when the question is first introduced. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I would have objected to it at the time but I could not find the matter, and as a matter of course a man can- not find every proposition that has been acted upon here for a week. It is not the phraseology or the language in the sentence that he wants to change at all. It is the idea. He wants to make a different and a dis- tinct proposition. Now. that is my understanding. I understood the gentleman to say there was something wrong wilh the phraseolog>- or that the committee on revision and piiraseology had made some objec- tion to it. The President: Tiie cliaii' understood that the gentleman from Cas- cade read the amendment that he proposed. The chair is of the opin- ion that (he objection to tiiat amendment w'ould probably be a very difficult and delicate question to decide. The gentlenian from Silver Bow Mr. Hogan cerlainly could not object after the gentleman from Cascade vMr. Collins had read distinctly what he proposed to change and amend: and as the question was under consideration. I suppose that would carry any other changes or aineiidmenis that the convention mig'ht wish to adopt. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: It seems to me (hat Ibis is one of the most important matters (ha( has come before this convention. If I under- stand (hi' provisions of this iiroposition. and man — and I will state here that I assign the same reasons here ami think they go to the same pomt which my remark went (o this morning — that any man who possesses one or ten million dollars worth of bonds or any other property in this 'Jcrritory — personal iiroperly which is movable — may on the 30th day of March go abroail upon these Indian reservations and spend the first day of April there, the time limited by law. and return there and escape taxation. Now, you may say that under the laws of the Territory a man who is guilty of fraud is conveying his property away — removing it from the county — is liable. How are you going to prove it? It seems tc me that this is one of the most important measures that have come befoi'e this convention. If this provision stands it will allow any man who has movable property to go off and remain long enough to ex- empt him from assessment and (axadon. I hope the committee will go hack and amend this thing, ami I hope the gentlemen who have any doubts upon the subject in consequence of its dubious character will consider it carefully and cautiously before they act upon it. .Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I am inclined to think that the amend- ment ought to prevail. There are a good many more things about this, when you consider if, that are in its favor, and I think it ought to be lef( to (lie legislature to i)rovide how the property should be taxed. The President: The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Meagher. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke: \\'hat is the motion? I can say. gentlemen, on this that on the motion made by the gentleman from Custer (his morning my at(entioTi was called to this article. While I was not in favor of changing the ordinance on account of the danger (d' (he constitution by any change in it. I still thought there was a great deal of reason in the suggestions made by some of the gentlemen. As (o the law of this question, that the situs of property follows the residence ol (he owner, that is a fiction of law. It seems to me that this constitu- tion changes (hat rule, which is an arbitrary rule — and equitable rule — it might be said, and that if these sections 16 and 17 of Proposition No. 27 are passed there will be great doubt as to the collection of any con- siderable tax of personal property in this Territory, because not only : (Marke county, because the owner could truthfully make a return that had not any property here in excess of .$500 or $l'.s and scboiil districts in which such I'ailroads are located in proportion to the ely. and it ('.a-;i' ■ade. if wil 1 COM'f CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 188ii 935 number of miles (if railway laid in such counties, towns, townships ami school districts". The chair put the question on the motion of the gentleman from Custer (Mr. Burleighi and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Rickards of Siher How: I was going, to ask the same ques- tion that I asked yesterday. Having amended a proposition that was al- ready passed, will it not be necessary to place the proposition upon Its final passage as amended? Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I iiiii\e tn iiut the proposition as now amended on its final passage. The moti(Mi was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declareil carried. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: In order to avoid the roll call, I move to suspend the rules and jiut the proposition on its final passage. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and I lie same was declared carried. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move the convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of Proposition No. 40, the article on .'Vpportionment and Representation. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President called Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone to the chair. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone in the chair. The committee was called to order. The clerk read Section 1 of Proposition No. 30. as follows: Section I. One Repri'siMitative in the Congress of the United States shall he elected from the State at large, the first Tuesday in October, in 1889. ami thereafter at such times and places, and in such manner as may be prescribed by law. When a new apportionment shall be made by Congress the legislative Assembly shall divide the State into Congress- ional districts accordingly. There being no amendment to Section 1, the clerk read Section 2, as follows: Section 2. The legislatixe assembly shall provide by law for an enumeration of the inhabitants of the State in 1895 and every tenth year thereafter: and at the session next following such enumeration, and also at the session next following an enumeration made by the au- thority of the United States, shall revise aud adjust the apportionment for representatives on the basis of such enumeration according to ratios to be fi.xed by law. Mr. ^^'arren of Siher Bow sent up an amendment to Section 2. The clerk read said amendment as follo\^"s: Add to Section 2: "And that each senatorial district shall contain as nearly as may be an equal number of inhabitants, excluding aliens, and shall remain unialtered until the return of another enumeration or census, and shall at all times consist of contiguous territory: and no county shall be divided in the formation of a senatorial district except such county shall be equitably entitled to two or more senators". Mr. Burleigh of Custer: 1 rise to the point of order that that matter has been disposed of and it can only be introduced here for the pur- pose of contention and delay. Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: While I am a member of this appor- tionment committee. I certainly agree with that amendment proposed by the gentleman from Silver Bow. Mr. Eaton of Park: I rise to a point of order. My point of order is that a previous point of order has been made and a decision from the chair has not been rendered. The Chairman: I think the gentleman from Silver Bow is out of order, but I will indulge him. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: Section 4 of Proposition No. 19 was passed August 5th, 1889. Upon its passage a motion was made to reconsider the 93(5 PROCEEDLNGS AND DEBATES Mill' by wliirli Si'L'tinii i was adoplod. A motion was made to lay that, iiuitiim upon tiie talilr, and tlial motion to table was rarried. This thing lifls bern forever and forever settled by this convention, and it cannot be amended in this way without unanimous consent, which prob- ably this convention will inner ^ct. I think the gentleman's point of oi'tler is well taken. The Chairman: 1 think, as the proposition ottered by the gentleman ti'om Silver Bow is in contlict with the proposition which has already been adopted by the convention, and which cannot be recurred to except by unanimous consent, that the amendment is out of order. 'J'he chair will so hold. The clerk read Section :i as follows; Section 3. Representative districts may be altered from time to time as public convenience may require. When a representative disti'ict shall be comiiosed of two or more counties they shall be contiguous, and the district as compact as may be. No comity shall be divided in the fnrmatinn of representative districts. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I wish to amend by adding the word "Senatorial", making it read "representative and senatorial districts". .Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I rise to a point of order. Mr. \A'arren of Silver Bow: I would lik(> to have a lailing of the chair. The chair can rule, and rule wrong, until we go home. The chairman: The chair will rule ai'cording to his convictions, nulwillistanding the opinions of the gentleman. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I rise to a point of order. The ques- tion has been raised as to whether the convention should consiiler this matter without the unanimous consent of the convention. I do mit think the chair or any one for that matter can raise the question whether a committee of the wlinle must give unanimous consent to consider an amendment. The Chairmian: Upon that, proposition I will state that T do not think it requires the unanimous consent of the committee of the whole in Ibis matter, but I do believe that the amendments offered by the gen- tleman from Silver Bow are in conflict with other provisions which have been heretofore adopted by th(> convention, and are therefore out of order. The clerk read Section i as follows: Section 'i. Whenever new counties are created, each of said counties shall be entitled to one Senator, but in no case shall a Senatorial district consist of more than one county. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow moved to strike out Section 4. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, anrl the same was declared lost. The clerk read Section 5, as follows: Section 5. The Senatorial districts of the State shall be constituted and numbered as follows: The county of Beaverhead shall constitute the first district, and be entiled to one senator. The county of Madi- son shall constitute the second district, and be entitled to one senator. The county of Oallatin shall constitute the third district, and be en- titled to one senator. The county of Jefferson shall constitute the fourth district, and shall be entitled to one senator. The county of Deer Lodge shall constitute the fifth district, and be entitled to one senator. The county of Missoula shall constitute tli(> sixth district, and be entitled to one senator. The county of f-ewis i^ Clarke shall constitute the seventh district, and he entitled to one senator. The county of Choleau shall constitute the eighth dislrjcl. and bi^ entitled In one senator. The county of Meagher shall constitute the ninth district, and lie entitled to one sen- ator. The county of Siher Hnw shall cuiislitute the tenth, district, and be entitled to one senator'. The county of Custer shall constitute the eleventh district, and be entitled to one senatnr. The county of Yellnw- stone sliall constitute the Iwelflli disti'ict. and be entitled to one senator. The county of Dawson sh«ll conslitufi^ the thirteenth district, and be entitled to one senatoi'. Tlie rnunlx of l'"ergus shall constitute the four- teenth district, and be entitled to one senator, Thi' county of Park shall constitute the fifteenlh district, and be entitled to one senator. The county of Cascade shall constitute the sixteenth district: and be entitled to one senator. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 937 Mr. Ma^'innis of Lewis & Clarke: I move to amend Section 5 by inserting "The county of Lewis & Clarke shall constitute the seventh district and be entitled to three senators". Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I rise to the point of order that this matter has been passed, and it is only for the purpose of dissension and discord that the matter is brought up. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I submit that in every Legisla- tive Assembly in the world points of order are entirely at the discre- tion of the Chairman, it being with him arbitrary in determining it. I would ask the Charman if he would like to hear the other side of this point of order? The Chairman: I will indulge the gentleman, but I will not allow the Convention to go into any extended discussion. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: If the Chairman is ready to decide there is no necessity for my going on. Laughter}. The Chairman:" The chair will decide the matter out of order. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move that the section be stricken out. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and a vote being taken. the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 6 as follows: "Sec. 6 Until an apportionment of representatives be made in ac- cordance with the provisions of this article they shall be divided among the several counties of the State in the following manner. The County of Beaverhead shall have two {2\ The Countv of ^ladison shall have two '21. The Countv of Gallatin shall have two (2). The County of Jefferson shall have three (3) The County of Deer Lodge shall have seven (?■». The County of Missoula shall have five (5). The Countv of Lewis and Clarke shall have eight '8\ The Countv of Choteau shall hav.' two '2~ . The Countv of Meagher shall have two (2) The Countv of Silver Bow shall have ten dO'. The County of Custer shall have (wo !2\ The County of Yellowstone shall have one T. The Countv of Fergus shall have t.w'o (2'i. The County of Park shall have two <2\ The County of Cascade shall have two ^pV The Coimties of Dawson and Cascade shall have M^ jointly. The Counties of Deer Lodge and Beaverhead shall have (T jointly. The Counties of Jefferson and Gallatin shall have one (1^ jointly. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: T have an amendment. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I have an amendment — To strike out line nineteen, and insert that which T have sent to the desk. The Chairman: I believe the amendment of the gentleman from Yellow- stone is prior to this. If will take precedence. The gentleman from Yellowstone offers the following amendment to the section: "In line nineteen strike out Counties and Substitute county". "And after the word Dawson in same line strike out the words "and Cascade". "Also after the word "one" strike out the word "jointly". The amendment was seconded. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: I have a substitute for that that will make it shorter. The Chairman: The amendment of the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke is next in order. The Clerk read said amendment as follows: "Strike out line nineteen and insert the following: "The Counties of Yellowstone and Dawson shall have one jointly." Mr. Myers of Yellowstone I would say that my amenriment covers the points. Mr. Haskell of Dawson: T offer a substitute for both amendments. The Chairman: The amendment of the gentleman from Lewis il' Clarke is first in order — "Strike out line 19 and substitute therefor the following: "The Counties of Dawson and Yellowstone shall have one jointly." Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: Now. Mr. Chairman, in connection with that matter I wish to simply say the Committee on Apportionment have given this matter its most earnest consideration, and that the report. '.t.jH l'Un<;Ki;i)IN(:s AM) DEISA'lES vi tli:il ('.(imiiiilli'c is pcactifally a unanimous report, or in ntlnr woi-ils, it is sipiit'il liy all but onp jicntlcnian, one of the Coiiunitffe Immii^: alisont. Tliat fjcutleiiiaii. wliili' he (ibjecled to signing the report il was not lie- cause of any nhjection to the report as a report, but simply bccausi' of an oiijection that hi' urged in the matter of his own County, and T do not think if the gentleman was here today he would opijose tliis report. He might make an effort to get his County considered, but he would not oppose the report. The Committee have looked the matter o\er very carefully as I have said, and we concluded that if we made any change it would disarrange the whole report and would have to be re- fused entirely. Dawson County lacks quite a number of votes of having enough to guarantee her one representive. The Committi'c based their apportionment on 727, and allowed every County a representali\e for every fraclicHi of 2-3 or more of that number, and W(» considered that this would be just and equitable to all the Counties. While thei'e ai'e a few fractions left that cannot be utilized because there are no Goinitii's near them that they can be added to make up the requisite 2-3 or 727 votes. We concluded that the report was the best that cinild pussibly be arrived at. I hope the report of the Committee will be adopted. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I want to say just a few words. The Com- mittee on Apportionment could do nothing else, so far as the Senatorial Districting is concerned, but abide by the action of the Convention, and apportion according to Counties. Then the facts stared us in the face that Dawson County had the biggest minority and Cascade County had the next. Cascade's fraction over two is 391. Dawson's fraction is li2. Cascade's is 389. and Deer Lodge next is 368. Jefferson next with 328. I think, and Park next, and Gallatin next. Now, if you would make this appoi-liun- ment — ' Interrupted) . Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: What is the ratio of representation? Mr. Collins of Cascade: 727. If we would make this apportionment at this ratio to each County without combining Counlies there would be two representatives to be made U|); pnd if we ga\e Dawson one repi-e- seiilatix" (hen tin- county wilh lie' next hii^ln ^t fraclion would be eiililled to one which is Cascade, anti the County of the next highest fraclion. Deer Lodge would be entitled to anolber one, and we could not dispose of as many complications as by that mi^thod. By this method we ilispose of the niattiT in a more equitable way. Cascade and Dawson Counties make a vot- ing jiopulation of over 800 — over 100 more than the ratio. The county of Deer Lodge and the county of Beaverhead make a voting population nearly up to the ratio — over 500 — not quite up to the ratio: and the county of ratio. Xow, there is no way that I can see that this report can be fixed up any better. If you do away with representation according to voles and give the couiily of Dawson one membei'. Iliat is iiol in accordanci' with tlie se.ltled iiolicy of the convention, which is to apimi'tion senatorial districts according to counties, and representative districts according lo poymlation. So thai Dawson is unfoi-tunalely silunled in a position (hat it tnis not got votes enough, and it must be adiled to another county. Tln^'e is not a contiguous county that row can add it lo, and if you add it lo Yellowstone, it would have enough lo vote: and you have got to skip the gr(>at county of Ciistei'. As much of Dawson County is on the north side of the Mis- souri Hixer almost as on the south side, and the population is almost equal. -Mr. ,loy of Park: How do you know? !\lr. (iollins of Cascade: That is my opinion. And the community of Inlci'ests is about the same So that it is as well in all respects to add the county of Dawson, if it has to be added, to the comdy of Cascade, as any other county in the Territoi'y. .\ow, if this amendment |)asses, or an\- oilier amendment, then the comity of Cascade has got to be pro\ided tor, liecmise il has the larL'cst fraction of all. Ml'. Ilershfield of Lewis it Clarke: Put that with Deer Lodge. .Mr. (',.)llins of Cascade: ^■nu cainiot very well join Di'er Lodge and Cascaile. for llie very reason llial lliey are diviiled by an unsurmounlable barrier. There is nn connection belween them, except by a circuitous roundabout wa.\ , and llial is jHaclically in)i)osslble. It seems to me I bat Ihe ri'port of d'u' coniinidee if adopted will settle things about as well a-< they can be seltleil. ^oll i-annol make an aiiportinonineul so Ihal il will suif all ol us. if \on lea\e it (he way it is. il is about ri^ibl. Mr. Ihiskell of Dawson: II is mosi peculiar that no lon?;ei- a,i:o Iban last week a member on llie Hour said disfinctly lliat on one siili' of llii' CONSTITUTIONAL CONVKMTON ISS9 939 Mi.-;.nvi!'ntion does not agree with me in that respect. Why not then select as the county which we desire to be connectetl with, the comity of Yellowstone? .Now. take the \otes of these two counti(>s addi'd tcu'ether and they make 1367. Hence, with the county of Yellowstone and Dawson together there would be 87 vi^tes short of makin'.; two rei)reseidatives. Now. that would not be an injustice on the pait of this convention to grant us that, provideil you will not give D.awson (^.ounty one represent-ative. This committee has I'eporled to this convention that the county of Choteau is 212 votes less than the full number, and the county of Custer is 179 short. So that by uniting Dawson and Y'ellowstone Comities we would be 87 short, and the distance of travel from the county seat of Yellowstone to Dawson County is but 225 miles. If you carry us up to Cascade County out of the world, it wouUI be too expensive for men to travel back and forth. \\'e have a few men in Dawson County that ought to have the pri\i!ege of the floor of the House of Representatix es id' this gr<'at State of Montana, and we do not desire this convention to practice what we term injvistic(^ in this case. First, if this convention will not give us the representativ<'. then we ask that the moton offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke shall prevail, and attach us to Yellowstone County, provided that the gentleman ironi Y'ellowstone has no objection, ^^"e have always been associated, or have for the last six years, with that county, and our interests are identical. Ca.scade is so remote that we have not discovered it so far as to know whether our interests are identical with theirs or not. and I will ask my friend from Cascade to let go of us for this once. ^Laughter' Mr. Hersfield of Lewis & Clarke: On the suggestion of my friend from Dawson f will withilraw for the present my substitute. The Chaii'man: The gentleman withdraws his substitute. The ques- tion now is on the amenr oui- rules tlie motion does not need to be seconded. Tlie Ctiairman: Tlie motion is withdrawn. The question is fliaf when the committee rise it report the article back with the recommendation that it do pass. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and. a vote being taken, llie same was declared carried. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I move the committee rise. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on llii> said motion, and a vote being taken, the sanii' was di'clared carried IN CONVK.NTIUX. President Clark in the Chair. The convention was called to order. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: Mr. President, the Committee of the Whole have had under consideration Proposition No. 'lO and report it back with the I'ecommendation thai il ilo pass with the amendments adopted by the committee. The President: The Chairman of the (Committee of the Whole repoi'ts that they have had under consideration Proposition No. iO and repoil it back w"ith the recommendation that it do pass. Mr. Middlefon of Custer: I move you that Proposition No. iO be now- taken ujj and considered seclioii by section, and i^lnced upon ils final passage. The motion was secondi'ii. The Chair put the question on Ihe siiid motion, and a \(i|i' brniij: taken, the same was declared caiTird. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I mo\ e that the rules be suspended and the reading of the proposition dispensed with, and the pro[iosition 111' placed on its final passase. The motion was seconded. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: rpon that motion 1 demand tlie prexious question. The President: II is moved and seconded tliat the rules be suspended and Proposition No. iO be placed upon its final passage. Upon this the previous question' had been demanded. The question before the conven- lion is, shall the main question be now put. The Chair then put the said ipieslion, and the same was declared carried. The President: The question now is upon the Proposition No. ill. and the ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. That requires a two-thirds vote. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I call for a division of the question. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: It seems lo me this comes too late. The previous question has been demanded. afliM- this motion to suspend Hie rules, and it is seconded and ordei'ed. Mr. .Maginnis of l.ewis & Clarke; The motion to siispeml Ihe rules is enlii'elx- one proposition, Mr. President. !\li'. linrleigli of Custer: Well, I will vVitlidiaw the motion lor Ihe lii'e\ious question until tlie former is decided. 'I'be President: The nmlion then is to suspend the rules foi' Ihe purpose of taking a vote upon I his proiiosition, with the understandiir-' that it will not re(]uire 'a 2-3 \(ili' upon the jiroposition. but simply upon th(> suspension of Ihe rules. Mr. Maginnis id' Lewis iV Clarke: 1 ob.jecl. Th^ President: 'I'be , gentleman ob.jects to llial. Will Ihr gentli'man slat<> his motion? Mr. Rickards of Silver ISow: .My nmlion was that the lulrs be sus- pended and the ri'ading of Ihe proposilion dispensed with, and Ihe pi-opo- sition placeil upon its final passat^e. The I'residenI: The question now is upon Ihe dispensing of Ihr rnirs and (he adoption of Ihe proposition. This will require a twolliirds vole. Mr. Hartman of I'.allatin; I move that the motion of the gentleman Irom Siher Itow lir imlrrinilely postpiuu'd. CONSTITLTIONAL CONVENTION 1S89 941 The President: The motion of the gentleman from (iallatin is not in order. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I ask for a division of tlip proposition. .Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I withdraw my motion. The President: The tjuestion now before the convention is upon the adoption of the original motion made by the gentleman from Custer that the proposition be considered secticn: by section. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The Clerk read Secton 1. Tliere being no amendments to Section 1 the Clerk read Section 2. .Mr. Warren of Silver P,pw: I offer an amendment to Section 2. The President: The gentleman from Silver Bow offers to amend by adding to Section 2. The Clerk read as follows: Add to Section 2, Proposition No. 40. That each senate district shall contain as nearly as may be an equal number of inhabitants, excluding aliens, and shall remain unaltered until the return of another enumeration, and shall at all times consist of contiguous terri- tory, and no county shall be divided in the formation of a senatorial dis- tiict. unless such county is equitably entitled to two or more Senators. Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the amendment. .Mr. Middleton of Custer: I rise to a point of order. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Before the point of order is taken. I move to strike out the words "aliens" and insert '"Indians not taxed."" Mr. .Middleton of Custer: My point of order is that this relates entirely and substantially to matter that has been passed upon by this convention and can only be reconsidered by unanimous consent. It has been provided for in Section 4 of Proposition No. 19 on Legislative Depart- ments. The President: Touching the question of order raised by the gentle- man fmm Custer, the Chair is of the opinion that question of order relat- ing to the admissibility of motions, to their adaptability to the question, to their procedure, that is. with regard to questions under consideration, and points of order, may be raiseil to matters of privilege. That is not involved in this question, and the Chair is of the opinion that the matter which is sought to be adopted is not within his province to decide. That he has no prerogative whatever. So far as the character of the matter may be concerned, which is introduced in a resolution or a motion, I desire to call the attention of the members of the convention on this question to Jefferson"s Manual. We have no rules upon the subject. On page 157. under the article ".\mendments'". it reads as follows: "If an amendment be proposed inconsistent with one already agreed to. it is a fit ground for its rejectment by the House, but not within the competence of the Speaker to suppress tas if it were against order; for were he per- mitted to draw questions of consistence within the vortex of order he might usurp a negative on important movements, and suppress, instead of subser\ing. the legislative will."" It is the opinion of the Chair that so far as the matter concerned in any motion which is presented to this convention, he has no prerogative, no powder to decide. .Mr. Middleton of Custer: Do T understand, then, that the Chair hns no power to prevent a matter being brought in by indii-ection that could not be reached ctirectly — something that has been acted npor. and deter- mined conclusively, and that the same identical matter can be reached by indirection, and that the Chair is powerless to jn'event"? The President: .According to the authority which the Chair has just read, it is within the province of the convention, if they see fit, to reject this proposition or to determine whether or not it is inconsistent with matters that have already been passed upon. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis \- Clarke: It the Chair will allow me, I would say that, as the Chair has well stated, all that his jurisdiction goes to is as to whether the matter has a parliamentary standing. This convention has power in case it chose, to make every aritcle of the constitution conflict with each other, and it is not within the province of the Chair to go into that. The only thing is whether it is germane tfl the question under consideration and properly a part of it. and there is no question as to either of these. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: T would like to read, with the permission of the gentleman. Barclay's Digest as to the rules of the House of Repre- sentatives: Reading ".\ motion to reconsider a vote laying a motion 942 pho(;eei)I.\«;s and debates Ic ifi-oiisiiliT (Ml llic (abli' is in oiiU'V. If fiUertaiiifd it would lead to iiiexlrirablb fonfusioii by piling up motion on motion to reconsider." Mr. Mag'innis of Lewis ^; Clarke: That is very true, but the only que-stion to consider is whether this proposition is germane to the section, and the question whether it conflicts with any or all of the articles cannot be considered by the Chairman. Mr. Burleigh of Cusler: I then move to indefinitely postpone the motion of the gentleman from Silver iiow County. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motiim. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis it Clarke called for the ayes land nays. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I will withdraw my motion. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: Can the motion be withdrawn after the ayes and nays are demanded? The P; jsident: It cannot. Mr. Co lins of Cascade: It is an amendment to lan amendment, and an amendment to postpone is certainly an inferior motion. The President': Tlie question now is upon indefinite postponement of the amendment. I believe the gentleman is correct, that a motion to indefinitely postpone the main proposition is in order, but uni the amend- ment. Thi Chair sustains the gentleman from Cascade, that the motion to indefinitely postpone is not in order. Mr. W'hrren of Silver Bow: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair stated the motion. Mr. Rickards of Siher Bow called for the ayes and navs. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Aiken, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A, J.; Burns, Edward; Oarpenter, Chessman, Courtney, Durfee, OJillette, Hershfield, Hogan, Knowles, Magin- nis, Mayger, Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. K.; Warren, Mr. President — 21. Nays: Brcen. Browne, Biiford, Bullard, Burleigh, Callaway, Cardwoll, Cauby, Cc llins, Conrad, Cooper, Dyer, Eaton, Fields, Gaylord, Ciibson, (iod diard, Graves, Hammond, Hartman, Haskell, Hatch, Hickman, Hobson, Joyes, Kanouse, Knippenborg, Loud, Luce, Marrion, Marshall, McAdow, Middleton, Mitchell. Mvcrs, I'arberrv, Rotwift, Watson. Whitehill. Witfer —40. Paired: Bickford and Craven, Joy and Muth, Ramsdell and \\'inston. Absent: Brazletcm, Di.xon, Kennedv, Kohrs. Reek. Robinson. Toole, J. R.: Webster— 8. The motion was declared lost. The Clerk read Section 3. !\[r. Wiarren of Silver Bnw: I have an amendment to Section 3. The President: The gentliMiian from Silver Bow, Mr. Warren, moves to amend Section 3 by inserting after the word "representative" the \vord.< "and senatoi'ial". It would then read as follows: "Representative and senatorial districts may be altered from time to time." The amendment was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and a \i>lc biMim taken the same was declared lost. The Clerk read Sections 4 and S. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow: I move to strike out Section 'i. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the (iiu'stidU on the said motion, and a \nli' liciii:; taken, the same was declared lust. Mr, Maginnis of I,ewis <^ Clarke: .Mr. President. T move tli'at the sec- lion lie amended so as to read as tollows: Lewis & Clarke, thre{^ Si'nators: Missoula, two Senator's: Deer Lodge, three Senators: Jefferson. Iwn SiMia- tors: Silver Bow. four Senators. .Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow seconded the motion. Mr. .Maginnis of Lewis it Clarke: I Ihink. Mr. Pi'esidi'nt. it \\(i\dd be quite as ,jnst as the present arrangement. Mr. Bui-leigh of Custer: .Mi'. I'n^sideiit. the gentleman is ,jusl Joking. and I think when he comes to straighten up here and look his fellow citizens in the face. I think he will say that it is a joke. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis it Clai'ke: Does the genfelman from Custer open up a debate here'? The gentlemen who represent tlieii' constituents lierc (Id iKit care to fdpcr a debate. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 943 Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I want In tfll one little anecdote ami then I will quit. ^Several voices) No, No, No. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I rise to a point of order. The motion lias been made by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, and the Chair is in possos'sion of the motion. The I'rcsidenI: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Maginnis, offers to amenti Section 5 as follows: "Lewis \ Clarke. 3 Senators: Deer Lodge. 3 Senators: Missoula, 2 Senators: .Jefferson. 2 Senators; Silver Bow, 1 Senators."" A di\i?ion of this question has been called for. The qui>stion will now be put upon the first proposition. The question is ui)on the adoplMiU of the amendment — or by llic gentleman from Lewis & Clarke to line o of Section 5, which coiitemidates striking out "one" and inserting in lieu lliei-eof "two"". The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken the same was declared lost. The Clei-k read as follows: "Silver Bow County, i Senators." The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and a vote being taken Die same was declared lost. riie Clerk read as follows: "Lewis I'i; Clarke. 3 Senators." The Chair nut the question on the said amendment, and a vote being taken tlie same was declared lost. The Clerk read as follows: "Missoula County, 2 Senators."" The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. I"he Clerk read as follows: "Deer Lodge. 3 Senators."' The Chair put the question on the said amendment, and a vote being taken, the same was declared lost. Mr Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: In order to make a record of this. I move to strike out the section, and on that I call for the ayes and nays. The President: The motion to strike out this question was lost a few moments ago. Mr. Collins of Cascade: T move to adopt the section. Mr. Eaton of Park: I rise to a point of order, long since established by this convention, that where a proposition is under consideration, such amendments as are desired are offered and considered, and since amend- ments have been offered the consideration of the next section is in order without any motion to adopt whatever. The President: The Chair is of the opinion that with regard to sev- eral sections we have adopted single sections, and the Chair sees no reason to vary from that rule now. The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The \o{e stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford, Breen. BrowTie, Buford. Bullard. Burleigh. Burns. A. J.: Burns. Edward: Callaway. Cardwell. Cauby. Collins. Conrad. Cooper. Dyer, Eaton. Fields. Gaylord, Gibson. Goddard. Graves, Hammond. Hart- man. Haskell. Hatch. Hickman. Hobson. .Joyes. Ivanouse. Knippenberg, Loud. Luce. Marrion, Marshall. McAdow. Middleton, Mitchell. Mvers. Par- berry. Rotwitt. Wat,son. Whitehill. ^^'itter— 43. Nays: .\iken. Burns. A. F.: Carpenter. Chessman. Courtney. Craven, Durfee, Gillette. Hershfield. Hogan. Knowles. Maginnis. Mayger. Rickards. Sargent. Schmidt. Stapleton. .1. K. Toole. Warren. Mr. President — 20. Paired: Joy and Muth: Ramsdell and Winston. Alisent: Brazleton. Dixon. Kennedv. Kohrs, Reek, Robinson. Toole, .T. R.: Webster— 8. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: I move that the rules be suspended and that further reading of the bill be dispensed with. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The qxiestion now is upon the adoption of the propo- sition. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I ask leave to change my vote upon this proposition. This is perhaps the last time that I shall trouble the convention, and the matter is of such importance with my immediate constituency that I desire to place on record an explanation of my vote. Mr. President. I am not much given to kicking against the pricks, and generally accept the inevitable as gracefully as I can. I cannot, however, permit this last opportunity to pass without again condemning the sena 944 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES torial ai)porlioniiii'ut as unliiir to the eU'ctions and spirit nf our institu- tions. With due dctfrence to the opinion nf others. I attirni that it is at variance with the principhi's on which State govei-nnients ai'e builded and upon whicli they have lieen maintained tor a century. I will not reiterate or recapitulate the arguments against (he injustice of this apportionment. It is taxation without representation in its most flagrant form. It gives a county with 400 voters the same representation as a county of 7000 voters, thereby disfranchising 6600 votes in the latter county. Every elector in this State is entitled to vote and to have his ^■ote counted. If this method of representation is to prevail, the right of suffrage of more than 1-3 of the electors of tliis State will be destroyed. It will operate as a transfer of political power in the Senate from a majority of a minor- ity. While this power might not be abused, it is such a radical departure from the theory and firactice of government of (he people and by the people and for the people that I fear it will be constant menace to the rapid settlement and increase of property in the State. I cannot but i-ecord this as a pernici(His and deplorable violation of fundamental prin- ciples which will invite serious opposition to our work. The right to representation according to population — the right of the m,aijority to govern is the keystone to our future greatness. We are a progressive people. Let us not go backward, but hold fast to the doctrine that in (he administration of government the majority shall control. Let us press forward in the race for supremacy among the States until standing upon the summit of our ambitions we can see behind us our 41 sister States. I shall vote against this proposition, but shall vote for the constitution because I abhor Territorial government. It is a government conducted and controlled at Washington. It is a government where the interests of our people are not consulted, and where our officers are not respon- sible directly to the people. In another place I once feebly told the story of our wrongs as a Territory and recounted the malti-eatment of Congress as best I could. With this catalogue of grievances so long and so constantly standing before me, I say there is but one alternative, I shall \'ote for (his consdtution here and at the polls. If you have deter- minedly set your faces against the justice of our demands, as I know you have, yielding to the power of superior numbers and nothing else, \ will vote for it and trust to the fairness and ability of (he first Legis- lative Assembly to provide for a speedy correction of what I regard as a palpable inequality of representation. (Applause) Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I move that the communicntion of the gentleman be referred to the Committee on Printing, and that, i( be cir- culated as campaign literature. Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: I second that motion, Mr. President. I think it is meet and proper that the people of this country should under- stand this thing exactly. I say this much, Mr. President, with all due respect to these gentlemen here, that I would nuich rather be a slave to (he United States than a slave to a rule of (his kind. I do not know that I will go so far as my friend, Mr. Toole, but I will certainly vole against the proposition now. I was here during all (he deba(e and I did no( bear one single reasonable argument advanced (o sustain his system, and I do believe our people in Siher Bow Cotmly are just as deserxing of representation as the people over here on (he Missouri River. I do not think they are any heder. but I have (his to say. (ha( I think i( is better to ha.ve a minority petition than a majority. T think that is the genius of our government, and with my understanding of Democracy and Ri^pub- licanism. I certainly shall no( \o(e (o fasten upon our pcoiije the system that is proposed here. I shall vote against i(. The gendeman from , Custer — (interrup(ed"i . Mr. Eaton of Park: I rise to a point of order. 1 wonlii likr lo liiidw what business is before (he House. The Presiden(,: It a gentleman desires to (■\plaiii his xnle lir has a perfect, right to do so. Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: 1 ongid not perhaps (n ha\e Ihi' audac- ity— a man from Silvei- Bow — to get up and speak in the |)resence of some of these gentlemen, when, according to theii' tnadiemalical rule one miui down here in Dawson Counly — (interrupted^ .Mr. Haskell of Dawson: Uh, let Dawson County alone. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 945 Mr. Couitney of Silver Bow: — is worth about twenty in Silver Bow County. But I am opposed to it. Mr. President, without wishing to go in- to any argument or harangue about the matter. All my feelings protest against it. and I shall certainly vote against it. The President: The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. Mr. Haskell of r)awson: I have an amendment. The President: The gentleman from Dawson offers to amend. The Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read as follows: .\mend line 19, Section 6, so as to read "The County of Dawson shall have one." Mr. Haskell of Dawson: I move the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the ciueslion on the said motion and a vote being taken the same was declared carried. The President: The question now is upon the adoption of Proposition No. 40. The ayes and nays will be entered on the journal. The Clerk called the roll. The vote stood as follows: Ayes: Bickford. Browne. Buford. Bullard, Burleigh. Burns. A. F.; Burns, A. J.; Burns. Edward: Callaway. Cardwell, Cauby. Chessman. Col- lins, Conrad. Cooper. Dyer. Eaton. Fields, Gaylord. Gibson, Goddard, Graves. Hammond, Hartman. Hatch. Hickman. Hobson. Joyes, Kanouse, Knippenberg. Loud. Luce. Marrion. Marshall. McAdow, Middleton. Mitchell, Myers. Parberry, Watson. Whitehill. Witter — 43. Nays: Aiken. Carpenter. Courtney. Durfee. Gillette. Haskell, Hersh- field. Hogan. Knowles, Maginnis. Mayger. Rotwitt. Rickards, Sargent, Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. K.: Warren. Mr. President — 20. Paired: Joy and Muth: Ramsdell and Winston. Absent: Brazlefon. Dixon. Kennedv. Kohrs. Reek. Robinson. Toole, J. R.: Webster— S. The Chair announced the vote and declared the motion carried. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I move the vote by which Article No. iO was passed be reconsidered, and that that motion be laid upon the table. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and a vote being taken, the same was declared carried. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I move you that when this convention adjourn it adjourn to meet next Tuesday at 2 o'clock. Mr. Buford of Madison: I hope that motion will not prevail. I have business at home that needs my attention, and if we can possibly get through I would like to do so. These other gentlemen who live along the line of the railroad have the advantage of us, and I hope the motion will not prevail. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead: I consulted w\lh the Committee on Revis- ion, and it appears that that is as early a time as they can guarantee the work to be finished: anfl if they could not finish it so as to get away on Saturday — so as to finish the work on Saturday, which I think is impos- sible according to their idea of il. it is useless for us to remain hi-re and find we cannot complete the work. .Mr. Field of Park: I move to amend by making the time 4 o'clock itistead of 2 o'clock Tuesday. Mr. Witter of Beaverhead. I will accept the amendment. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: On next Tuesday, unfortunately, the Republicans will meet in convention at Anaconda laughter and to [uolong this convention until next Tuesday would be very inconvenient. There are very many of the members of this convention who will want to go to .\naconda. and that will lake up the entire week. I think an adjournment until Monday would be ample time. I move the amendment if it is in order that when we adjourn we adjourn till Monday at 2 o'clock. .Mr. Luce of Gallatin: Now. I understand from members of this Com- mittee on Revision that they will be able to report Saturday; and why we should wait until Monday for that report when the business of mem- bers of this convention is pressing at home I cannot understand, and I therefore move to amend that when Ibis convention adjourn it adjourn to -4 o'clock Saturday. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I will withdraw my amendment to adjourn to Monday. 946 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Eaton of Park: I would like an aii(hiirila(i\e or definite state- ment from the Chair of tlie Conmiitti'e on Revision. Phraseology and Ad- justment. It seems to me there are a ^reat many different opinions here, and it appeai-s to be all second hand; and in order to arrive at any idea I think wo had better hear from the Chairman of the committee. Mr. \\'arren of Silver Bow: If we take simply the engrossed eupies of the bills and articles that come from the committee; those can be corrected and a report made very easily Satui-day; but if we go to have the entii'e constitution typewritten and get it up witli some care, it would be impos- sible to have that done before Monday or Tuesday. If we just take these things as they come to us and simply correct them and interline them and fix the sections, that can be done in one day: but to have the entire constitution typewritten and get it up in some shape, I do not think il can ije done before that time. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I cannot understand what advantage a type- written constitution will be to this convention any more than the en- grossed articles here. Mr. Middleton of Custer: As I imderstand it there is practically no other business to be done by Ibis convention except to finally pass upon this work when it gets back from Ihe Committee on Revision. As to the suggestion that it should be typewritten, that seems to me entii'ely unnec- essary. The whole niatfer as it stands at the present time is exactly as matters of legislation go into the bands of the Secretary, and it would seem from what thi^ Chairman of the Committee on Revision and Phrase- ologv' said yesterday that tliose mattei's had been submitted lo the Chair- men' of the" different comitttees, and had liecTi passed upon so far as the phraseology was concerned, and that really nothing remains to be done hut putting! them together and numbering the articles and sections: and so far as I am personally concerned, it will be absolutely impossible for me to remain. I believe this committee can report Ibis whole matter back Saturday morning and that we can get tlirough Saturday night. The l^resiilent: The Cbair woiUii suggest to the oonvention that a committee cimi|)Osed of several menibeps of the Judiciary Committee was added lo the Committee on Revision and Phraseology for Ihe purpose of examining as to possible conflicting statements in the proposition, and iMi'. Carpenter of Lewis & Clarke is now the principle member of that committee, and he will probably give us some opinion in regard to whal the views of that committee will be. Mr. Cai'penter of Lewis & Clai'ke: I can only say. Mr. President, that T have been connected with the committee a short, time: T think it is impossible for the committee to finish their labors by Satvirday mornin-r or Saturday afternoon. Of course the longer lime Ibey have the mure time they will have to consider it: but I have fell mysidf in a position of delicacy in taking up this mallei' because T have been told thai there were several members of this conxention who desired that the work should be finishi'd Friday or else that the convention should adjovu-n until Monday or Tuesday. Sri far as many of the members of the committee are concerned they can stay here and work all the time. So far as I am jiersonally concerned it is a matter of perfect indifference. The longer time we have the more consideration we can give, biit I think for the convenience of the convention that that committee should rcjiort Satur- day at 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock or 'i o'clock in the afternoon. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I want to ask Ihe gentleman one i|uesliiiii: [f Ihe addiliiin nf ari\' more membei's to the committee would enable them 1(1 get along niuri' rapidly with Ihe business, or have all the force Ihey want. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis i simple reading of that documeid from beginning to end will take ■ 1 hardly know how long, but it is sinnelhing of a task — an hour and a half iir twd hours: Ihe signing of the indi\iduMl names of the members of the ciinvenlinn Ibei'eln will cerlaiidv laki- an boiu' and a half, ami there i-; all CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 9i7 that time laki'ii u)). ami tln'refme I liiink that if this coiivontimi adjuurns to meot on Saturday next it will simply meet at that time and adjourn over Sunday; and therefore I am opposed to the Saturday adjournment at all: and since some of us do live a little further away, I hope that when we adjoui-n we will adjourn to mi^et some time on Tuesday. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I would like to ask what objection there is to meeting here on Saturday, say at 2 o'clock, and if necessary to w(n'k until 12 o'clock that night to get this matter through. The committee. I understand, will be ready to report at 4 o'clock, and these gentlemen here who have pressing business and want to leave and cannot stay here. It seems to me that they will be willing to work here until late into the night in order to get the work finished. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: We are evidently seeking information. Now. why is it not possible for us to act on some of the propositions already in the hands of this committee, which they are undoubtedly ready to report upon, ^^"hy is it necessary for us to wait for all of these propo- sitions to come in a lump? May we not take up some of the propositions'? Supposing they have suggested or will suggest an amendment to the proposition on education or the proposition on military affairs, or any other proposition: may not that committee report that proposition back to this body and let us go as far as they have already gone? It seems to me that we might facilitate matters in that way. Mr. McAdow of Fergus: I hope the convention will conclude to meet Saturday next. I am compelled to go away eithi^r Monday night or Tues- day night, and I have got to go out of the Territory. I have been here now for forty-odd days, and I think we can certainly get through, and T do hope that we will not adjourn longer than Saturday anyway. Mr. I.uce of Gallatin: I tliink if you expect a quorum of this conven- tion present when this convention does adjourn you had better set the time for adjournment some time on Saturday. Now. I have been hen* and answered to roll call every time, except when I was on a sick bed, and I have not seen my office or my town since I have been here. I hav some business of importance and I would like to get away. I would like to sign this constitution and have it done and ended, and I do not under- stand why they want to throw away the time on Saturday. I do nol understand why we cannot work on durinsr Saturday into the night. I do not understand why this convention does not want to finish up this work. We have been here. God knows, long enough, and we have a perfect con- stitution, and let us finish it up and adopt it. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I hope this motion will be withdrawn, ami that we will adjourn until tomorrow morning and finish up the balance of the committee work and then adjourn tmtil 4 o'clock. Now. the Judi- ciay Committee have got the matter of paying the extra officers in thei-r hands, and they have not met on it yet. There is the matter of the piinting also. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move we do now adjourn. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins of Cascade: Before we adjourn I would like to offer a resolution on printing. The President: There are two propositions here that are asked to bi' read, if the gentleman \xi\\ withhold his motion to adjourn for a moment. The Clerk read a.s follows: Mining. The Legislature may pass laws providing for escapement shafts in all mines in which steam hoists are used, and for safeties and bonnets on all cages and skips used for hoisting and lowering men into the mines: and may pass laws for the pi-oper >entilation of mines. The President: This ri>so|ution is introduced by Mr. A. .J. Burns of Lewis it Clarke. Mr. A. J. Burns of Lewis >S: Clarke: I do not desire to have that reso- lution referred to any committee. I should like to have it brought before the convention without being referred to a committee. There are about 1.5.000 men or fully 1-3 of the Territory engaged in mining, and they desire some legislation of this kind. I move the adoption of the resolution. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I simply want to say that the Legislature may pass such laws without our passing this proposition, and it is entirely unnecessary. I hope the miners will get all the protection in the woi-lll from every danger, hut I say it is within the power of the Legislatun- without adopting this to give them that protection and T do not th'nk i( ought to be aijopted. 948 PHOCEEDI.Nns AND DEUAIKS Mr. Middlt'toii ol' (Uistci-; 1 iln iml uniiiTStaml this i-aii Iji' ilnnc with- out a suspension >>( Ihc ruli's. The President; Only li\ nnaiiinidiis ennsrnt or a sus|ii'nsinn nl' lln' rules. Mr. Middleton ot Custei': I dhjccl tur (he very reasun a.s stated by the gentleman from (iallatin. It is a matter (hat will have no el'l'ect. Mr. A. J. Burn.s ol' Lewis & Clarke: I move Ihat liie rule.s he su.s- pended and the motion be adopted. The motion was seconiled. The ehair put I he question on the said nmtion and tin- same was derlared lost. Mr. Parberry ot .\|eagher: I desire leave of absence. The President: The gentleman will be excused. The gentleman from Cascade. Mr. Collins, offer's the following resolution in regard to printing. The Clerk read as follows: "i3e it ordained: That 20.000 copies of the constitution of the State of Montana be printed for distribution: that a conunittee of 5 hi' appointed to iirepare an address to the elciMors of the TeiTitory of Mmilana to accompany the same, and (hat said constitu- tion and address be jjrinted together in pamphlet form under the direction of the Committee on Address. Provided that the costs of printing the same shall not exceed the I'ates now paid for Territorial printing, and (he cost is hereby declared to be a charge against the State of Montana." .Ml'. Burleigh of Custer: I secoml the motion, and 1 desire tn sav that in entrusting the committee with the publication of this constitution. I hope they will see that no such miserably executed thing as the printed pamphlet of the old constitution shall be sent out to disgrace the State of Montana or to disgrace this convention. I have been somewhat familiar with pi-inting matters and T have never seen a pamphlet, a published docu- ment, or anything of the kind so mis(M-ably executed and sent out upon such miserable paper as this. Of course I think economy is a goood thing, but it is certainly necessary to have good printing and to have good paper although it may cost a little more. Mr. Ciaven of Lewis & Clarke: I will state that I have been informed that the Secretary of the Territory is in correspondence with the aut horri- fies at Washington with reference to the printing of the constitution wheri it is completed, and I think it is well to deter'mine before this resolution is passed the status of that correspondence, and if it will be boi'ne by the United States the State will be relieved of the large expense. Mr. \\atson of l>'ergus: I hope the convention will pause a little before it adopts this resolution. I think it would be far belter to obtain through the printing committee perhaps or some other way an estimate of what this would cost. It seems to be contemiplated that we shall get the Slate or somebody else in an iiiiii>btedness of some fifteen or- tweiilv thousand dollars. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I. think, cost what it will, the people ouglit Id know what we have done here, and there is no other way for them to get that information. Mr. .1. K. Toole of I^ewis >.t Clarke: The r-esolufion pr-ovides that i( shall not exceed (he amount as now provided luider the TeiM-iforinl law for printing. .Mr', ^^'atson of Fei'gus: T innleistand (lia(. ver'y well, Mi'. I'resideid. hut 1 also understand there is ipiile a difference between printing a pamphlet in large pica type on book paper, or printing it in newspapei'. it will make n. diffei'ence of several thousand dollars — a good many thous- and dfdlars. I can assure the convention of (hat. Mr. .r. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I discovered this, tliat the bill reported by the jiublishers who have done the printing for the convention is surpiisiiiffly small in m> jiidgfent — $2,'^'i for (he entire pr-indng done by the committee. Mr. Middleton of Custer: That included the printin:;- of ttie mils and all tlie printing. The Cliaii' put (he question on tin' said molinn ami a ^(lle heinj; (akeii (he same wias lieclared carried. Mr. .1. T\. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: 1 nmNc Id recunsiiler Ihi' Mite, and Id l;i> that motion on th(> table. Tlie nidtidii was seconded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 949 Tlic Chair put Ihi' question on tlic said motion and the same was declared carried. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I move we adjourn. The motion was seconded. Mr.. Witter of Beaverhead: I would ask what the object is in meet- ing liere tomorrow morning. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: To finish up the business. Mr. Collins of Cascade: The Judiciary Committee have a report to make, and we have some other business. I will state that if they have a quonun here they can adopt the repoil of the Judiciary Committee on the extra pay of the clerks, and then adjourn until Saturday at 4 o'clock. Mr. Eaton of Park: I wish to make a preliminary inquiry as to what became of several motions in regard to our adjournment to a day certain. Tlie President: They were superseded by a motion to adjourn and that was withheld for the pur|)Ose of considering resolutions. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: Before the motion is put I would like to suggest that the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee is absent, and that we had better meet here and consider the matter id' this extra expense of the Convention. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I would like to be excused until Saturday. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: I would like to be excused until 4 o'clock Saturday. The President: Tlie understanding is that possibly the labors of the Convention may be finished on Saturday, and Chair does not like to take the responsibility of allowing excuses. The question now is upon adjournment. With reference to the request of the gentleman from Yellowstone who desires to be excused until Monday, and Chair would hke to have the sense of the Convention upon that subject. Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone: I do not insist upon that, it Ihe Con- vention will adjourn until Saturday, but I have no idea it will. The President: The question is upon the adjournment. The Chair put the question on \ho said motion and the same was declared carried. The Convention stood adjourned until Fridav, .\ugust 16, 1889, at 10 A. M. THIRTY SIXTH DAY Friday, Aii<)iist Ifi, 1889 The Convention was called to oi'dei' l.iy the President at 10 \. M. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. Goddard of Yellowstone wished leave of absence for the day. Mr. Durfee of Deer Lodge: Mr. Reek desired leave of absence for •the day. Mr. Burleigh of Custer asked leave of absence for Mr. Loud. The Chaplain offered prayer. Mr. (Mbson of Cascade begged to be excused until tomorrow. Mr. Browne of Clioteau likewise asked to be excused until tomorrow. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow sent up report of the Chairman of the Com- mittee on Adjournment, Revision and Phraseology, which the Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, Your special Committee on Revision with a view of expediting the work of the Convention respectfully report that they have partiallv performed Ihe work assigned them and recommend as follows: to-wit: That the different propositions contained in the Consti- tution be arranged in the following order: First. Preamble. Second. Article one. Boundaries. Third. Article Two. Military Reservations. Fourth. Article Three. Declaration of Rights. Fifth. Article Four. Legislative Departments. Sixth. Article Five. Executive Department. Seventh. Article Six. Judiciary Department. 950 I'HOCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Eighth. Artii-lr Scmmi. Itii^hts nl' Siirfragc ami Oiiiililications k> hiild office. .Ninth. Article Eight. Stale Institutions and I'ulilic Buililings. Tenth. Article Nine. Education. Eleventh. Article Ten. Revenue and Taxation. Twelfth. Article Eleven. Public Indebtedness. Thirteenth. Article Twelve. Military affairs. Fourteenth. Article Thirteen. Corporations other than Municipal. Fifteenth. Article Fourteen. Municipal Corporations and ottici'rs. Sixteenth. Article Fifteen. Public Lands. Seventeenth. Article Sixteen. Labor. Eighteenth. Article Seventeen. .Miscellaneous Subjects and IuI\im> amendnnMits. Nineteenth. Article Eighteen. Schedule. Twentieth, Article Nineteen. Signatures. Twenty-first. Article Twenty. Ordinances on Federal Relations. Twenty-second. Article Twenty-one. Ordinance on Elections. Respectfully submitted, (Signed) WARREN. Chairman. Mr. Buford of Madison: I moxc the adoption of the report. The motion was seconded. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I think early in the season Mr. Callaway made the motion that that be inserted right after the Preamble and before the Bill of Rights — The Article on Boundaries be inserted innne<1i- ately after the Preamble and in advance of the Bill of Righl.s — The Bill of Rights follows the boundaries. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I will state for the information of the gen- tleman it does follow the preamble, but it was deemed bi'st by the Com- mittee that the Military Reservations should be included right in the word boundaries, but it does follow the Preamble. First comes the Pre- amble and then the boundaries. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: In connection with the Revision Com- mittee the Secretary of the Committee has a number of amendments which he desires to submit whenever the House is ready to take them up. and I will move these amendments be considered by the whole Con- vention and be considered in the Committee of the Whole. The President: That will come up under the order of unfinished busi- ness. Mr. Middleton of Custer: The Committee on Engrossment and Enroll- ment desires to make a report. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, Your Committee on En- grossment and Enrollment to whom were referred Propositions No. 3S and 40, Memorial No. 2 for Enrollment beg leave to report that the enrolled copies thereof have been carefully compared with the orig- inals as amended, and are correctly enrolled. (Signed MIDDLETON. Chairman. The President: The Chairman of the Committee on Revision and* Phraseology reports that they have a number of articles now ready with file slight amenflm(>nt-s and changes to be made, and it has been moved and .seconded that these matters be taken up in Convention in- stead of Committee of the Whole. The Chair ptit the question on the said motion and the same wiis deelared carried. The President: If the Chairman of the Committee will pr-i^sent those articles they will be now considered. Mr. Craven of Lewis cS: Clarke: I move you that tln' Cnnnnitti'e on Revision. Phraseology and Adjustmeid he granted permission to set dviring the further sessions of the Convention and have lea\e of absence for that, purpose. Thr' motion was seconded. The Chair jiut the quesfi(ni on the said nintioii and the same was deelared carried. Mr. Eaton of Park asked leave of absence, which was gran(e(l. The Clerk read as follows; Mr. President, Yniir Committei> have consideced proposition No. I on Preamble and Bill of Rights and recommend to strike out heading of Section one and insert in lien thereof the COXSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 951 words "Doclaratioii of Rights. Strike mit the word "That' wherever it occurs at the hegiiuiing of a section. Mr. Hogan of Silver Bow moved the adoption of the said amendment. The motion was seconded. Tlic Cliair put the question tm the said motion and the .same was declared carried. The Cl(>rk read as follows: Section 1 line 3 strike out word "that". .Mr. Witter of BeaverheacT moved the adopticm of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 3 line 0 strike out the word "that". Mr. Collins of Cascade moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 4 line 0 strike out the words "or capacity" and insert before the word "privilege" the word "or". Mr. \\'itter of Beaverhead moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the questinn (ni the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 4 line 18, 19 and 20 strike out the words "or support any ministry or place of worship, religious sect or denomination" «nd insert "any place of worship or support any ministry, religious sect or denomination". .Mr. ^^'itter n( Beaverliead mnved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair i)ut tlie question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 0 line 5 strike out the word "that." Mr. Witter of Beaverhead moved the adnptiiui uf the amendment. The mntii)ii was seconded. The Chair put the question im the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 8 line 4 after the word "shall" insert "in all Courts inferior to the District Court." Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow moved the adoption of tlie amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 8 strike out after the word "com- plaint" in line 5 section 8 to and including the word "Court" in line 12 and insert "All criminal actions in the District Court, except those on appeal, shall be prosecuted by information after examination and commitment by magistrate, or after leave granted by the Court, or shall be prosecuted by indictment without such examination or commitment, or without such leave of the Court." Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 9 line 5 strike out the word "that". Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 10 line It insert the word "facts" in lieu of "fact". Mr. Witter of Beaverhead moved the adoption of the amendment. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows: Section 12 line 2 strike out the word "such" and insert the word "the"; and in line 3 strike out the words "as may be". 952 PHOCEEDINCS AM) liKMAIKS Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow movcil llii' adoption of (he amendnii'iil. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said nidtion and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read as follows; Section 17 line 3 strike out the word "case" and insent "criminal proceeding". Mr. Witter of Beaverhead moved the adoption of the amendment. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion anil th(^ same was declared carried. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move you that these several amendments as read be considered as adopted unless there is objection. The President: If there be no obection these amendments will In- considered adopted as read unless objection is raisd. The Clerk read as follows: Section 18 line 3 strike out the word "case" and insert the word "proceeding". Section 20 line 2 strike out the word "nor" and insert "or". Also in line 3 strike out "nor" and insert "or". Section 22 line 3 strike out "that". Section 23 line 13. in lieu of "shall not consist of more" insert "shall consist of not more". Section 25 line 10, the Committee recommend that after the word "in- fringe" till' word "upon" be inserted. The Chairman: There being no objection ail these amendments will be considered adopted. Mr. Rickford of Missoula: I would suggest that in Section 25 that perhaps the, sense of the Section might be improved by inserting the word "denizen" after the word "alien". Under the law as defined the class of citizens are divided into three. There are the* alien, denizen and citizen, and denizens are defined to he those who are living temporarily in a country: they are not full citizens: and T think perhaps it would be well to unanimously consent that the word "denizens" should go in. The President: If there be no objection the word "denizen" will be inserted after the word "alien". I\Ir. Hickman of Madison: I wovild like to inquire if the word "that" is stricken out in every section. The President: Yes, sir. Mr. \\'arren of Silver Bow: T move that this artcle .\o. 1 be re- ferred to the enrollment and engrossment committee. The President: If there be no objection this article No. 1 will be referred to the engrossment and enrollment committee. We will now proceed to the amendments offered to the next article. The Clerk read as follows: Your Committee have considered Prop- osition No. 9, article on Military Affairs and recommend as follows: In Section 2 insert the words "Legislative Assembly" in lieu of "Legislature." In Sections 3 and 1 change the word "Legislature" to read "Legislative Assembly". The President: These amendments will also be i-onsidered adopted if there be no objection. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 11 article on labor, insert in lieu of Section 1 as follows: Section 1. "The Legislative Assembly may provide for a bureau of .Agriculture. Labor and Industry" to be located at the Capitol, and be under the control of a Commissioner appointed by th(> Governor subject In Ihc confirmation of the Senate. The CTommissioner shall hold his (illiiT tor four years and until his successor is appointed and (pi.Tlificd. His compensalion shall be as provided by law." Insert in lieu of Section 2 the following: Section 2. II shall hi- un- lawful for the warden or other officer of any State Penjlenliary or Reformatory Institution in flie State of Montana, or lor any Slalc offi- cer to let by contract to any person oi' persons or coi-|ioralions llir lalior of any conxici confined within said institutions. The Presidi'iil : If there be no objeclion these aiiiciidini'nls will lie aflopted and Propositions No. 9 and II will be referi'cd lo lln' Enroll- ment Comniitlce to be enrolled. Mr. Itickards of Silver Bow: 1 was going to ask simpl\ for' nifoinia- tion. in a pi'oposifion where one section or two sections, as in this case, are stricken out and other sections are substilulcd in lien thereof, whether it is not necessary for a vote of this Convent ion? The Piesidcnl: By unaniomus consent these amendments may be adopted, and of course the Conslitiition will be \(iled upon as a whole at CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENI'IOX 1889 953 Uie emi. Tlio changes that aru made are simply in the arrangements and phraseology, and by unanimous consent this may be done. Tlie gen- tleman Irom Cascade asks unanimous consent to introduce the following resolution, which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Resolved, That members who are absent wlirii the Constitution is signed in Convention be and they are hereby authorized to sign the same on the blank space left for that purpose, at tile office of the Secretary of the Tei'ritory, at any time during office hours, within 30 days from the adjournment of the Convention. Mr. Conrad of Choteau moved the adoption of the resolution. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: That is too long a time. It will delay the Constitution going into the hands of the printers if we make that 30 days, and there is no necessity for granting that length of time. The gentlemen who are absent can present themselves and sign the Cniistitution. Tifteen days would be abundant, because it would delay the printing of the Constitution, if you make it longer. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I will accept the amendment. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the proposi- tion. The Chair would suggest that this Constitution will probably be printed before that time, and inasnmch as it is to be submitted to the people early in October, it should be printed and sent out as early as possible. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I do not think from what I hear from the publishers in town that it can be printed in much less than two weeks. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the said resolu- tion and the same was declared carried. Mr. Browne of Choteau: I would like to be excused for the remain- der of the term. I do not think that I will be able to get back tomorrow. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: It seems to me that there have been so many excuses now that there is scarcely a quorum here, and the result will be that it will block the adoption of the Constitution entirely. The President: The Chair doubted the propriety of passing the resolution because it extends too much encouragement for members to leave, and certainly all the members should be here when the Constitution is signed. The Clerk states there are about 50 members present now. If there are many excuses for indefinite absence the probability is that we will not have a quorum. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I mo\e to reconsider the vote by which the resolution was passed. The motion was seconded. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I hope the motion will not carry. My col- league is absent and has been detained on account of very severe sick- ness and he cannot possibly be here within 10 or 12 days. The Chair put the question on the motion to reconsider and the same was declared carried. The President: The motion stands before the Convention as it did when first offered. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I mo\e the resolution be laid upon the table. Mr. Collins of Cascade: I will withdraw it for the time being. The Clerk read as follows: Your Committee have considered Prop- osition No. 13 article on boundaries, anil recommends as follows: Sec- tion 1 line 5 insert "27th'" in lieu of "22nd". Section 1 line 19 in lieu of word "till" insert "to". Section 1 line 23 insert "from" in lieu of second word "of". Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I ask the unanimous consent to strike out the word "commencing" and insert "beginning". The President: If there be no objection the amendments as re- ported by the Committee will he aflopted and Proposition No. 13 will be i-eferred to the Enrollment and Engrossment Committee. The Clerk read as follows: Your Committee have considered Prop- osition No. 18 article on State Institutions and Public Buildings, and recom- mend as follows: In Section 2 strike out first and second lines up to word "at", and in ninth line after Section 2 write "in" \yith capital "I". Section 5 line 5 strike out the word "other". The President: If there be no objection these amendments will be adopted and the Proposition referred to Committee on Enrollment and Engrossment. 954 'HdCKKDI.NCS AM) DP^BATES 'rill- (^dinmittec on RRvision report back Proposition No. 32 williout aniciKliiirnl. By unaniindus consent before referred to the Committee on Knrdllment lo be enrolled. .Mr. Warren of Siher Bow: I move that when we take a i-eces.s it be until i o'clock when liie Committee will be ready to report. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. The President: What is the pleasure of the Con\ention. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: The Chairman of the .Tudiciaiy Committee directs me to make the following report for him. The President: If there be no objection this report will be considered now. The Clerk read as f(dlows: Mr. President: Your Judiciary Committee to whom was referred Resolution No. 31 and also resolution introduced by Hickman, both relating to pay of extra clerks and emiiloyees etc. have directed me to report the same back to the Convention with the accompanying: ordinance and resolution I'elating: ,to the matter and pro- viding for pavment of emplovees. |irinting expenses, etc. Dated Aguust 16, 1889. (Signed) DIXON, Chairman. WHEREAS, the Act of Congress approved February 22. 1889, under which this Convention has been called, has failed to pro^ ide sufficient funds to defray the expenses of the same, and WHERExVS, it has been found necessary to employ additional officers and incur extra expenditures for a systematic and expeditious trans- action of the business of this Convention; therefore be it ORDAINED, that Three Thousand Three Hundred i$3300 Dollars or so much thereof as may be necessary, is hereby declared to be a charge against the State of Montana for this express purpose of paying the fol- lowing named officers necessarily incurred in the transaction of the business of this Convention: Names 'VCD It e Hd n 3£ ■d re "s ° O ■< s. «. M 1 3 It 3S ; a3 |g (i 1 John Trumbell E. C. Garrett John McKay Lee Swords Edward Kerr Henry Bernard Morris Langhorne Willnm Taylor William Green Morris Langhorne ... Cornelius Hedges, Jr.. Wm. D. Alexander.... C. P. Connolly Independent Pub. Co.. Sudries President Clark T. E. Collins Rev. H. E. Clawer Assf. Chief Clerk. Clerk Asst. Serg. Arms. Page Stenographer* Printing 5.(W..|Julv .5.00..lJulv r,.00..|july .5.00..!.Iuly 5.00. 5.00. 5.ftO. 5.00 5.00. 'i.OO i.OO. 'i.OO. 15.00. July iJuly I.Tulv IJuly iJulv IJulv IJulv July IJuIv Aug. .\ug. Aug. .-Vug. .\ug. Telegrams Type Writ. Chaplain 6 Aug. 17|Aug. filJuIv 71 Aug. (ilAug. filAug. OlAug. iJAug. I :... 17 17 17 17 1 17 17 43i 44| «! 431 431 321 1611 II 101.35' 171431 171431 1 71 431 220.00 215.00 220.00 215.00 215.00 215.00 160.00 .55.00 175.00 172.00 i7-'.m 1 7 2. CM I ()75.00 234.20 3.50..I.Iuly 4|Aug. 17|4o: 1 1 .51 1 1.57.50 I |.«329l.97 "And 20 cents per folio for each and evecy folio franscT'ibed by liim of (he pr-oceediiigs of the Convention to be asci-rtained upon the filing of the same pursuant lo (he resolution authorizing the same. RESOLVED, that llie Chief Clerk is hereby authorized and required to issue a certificate to each of the employees, and for the expeiulitures. n\enlione(| in firiiinance No. 34 slaling the serxice rendered and lunount GONSTITfl'lo.NAI. CONVENTION 1889 955 iliK'. which (•crtilic-atf shall be duly certified to by the Presidenl and Chipf Clork of this Convention and shall be a valid claim against the State of Montana. .Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I would slate, Mr. President, in conneetion with that report that it embraces all the expenses of the Convention up to and including tomorrow, with the exception of the amount I hat will be found to be due the stenographer in addition to his per diem, which will be at the rate of 20 cents per folio for each and every folio of the proceedings of the Convention transcribed in pursuance of the resolution authorizing him to perform that service. The exact amount of course cannot be ascertained until this report is made and filed as provided in the resolution. So that in addition to the per diem of $095 there is added this additional amount as computed and ascer- tained when the report is filed; that whatever it amounts to may he made a charge against the State. I move the adoption of the Ordinance and Resolution. The President: The Chair would ask the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke if he has considered the expense of printing the Consfifution? Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: That amount was provided for in the resolution which was offered and passed yesterday as a separate item. That resolution provided for the printing of the Constitution umter the direction of the Committee to be appointed by the President, which niade it a charge against the State. The President: The question is upon the adoption of the Ordinance and Resolution. If there be no objection the report will be received and adopted; and question now before the Convention is upon the adoption of the Ordinance. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I notice Mr. President, in tlie read- ing of this report that this claim, or these claims, in the aggregate, constitute a ctaim against the State of Montana. It has been given out by some that it is in the range of possibility that our Constitution may be defeated. In that event what becomes of these claims? Who are the claims against? Mr. .7. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I will state to the Convention that I have prepared a memorial, which I intend to present. I was .iust about to state that I was going to offer, as soon as this report was adopted a memorial to Congress asking that an appropriation be made to cover all these expenses, which we shall ask anyhow wiiefher tSie Constitution is adopted or not. The Chair put the question on (he adoption of fhe Ordinance and the same was declared carried. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Claike: T offer the following memorial. The President: The memorial lo Congress offered by the gentle- man from Lewis & Clarke. Mr. Toole, will be read by the Clerk. The Clerk read as fd by Congress to pay such extraordinary and necessar-y expenses, and your memorialist will ever pray. Air. Burleigh of Custer: I move the adoption of the memorial. The motion was seconded. 95G PROCEEDI.MiS A.\l> DKIUTKS The Chair put llir qiii'stiiui on the said motion and the same was declared carrried. The President: This should hr in the custody of some one to pre- sent to a delegate in Congress. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: If it is necessary I move that the Clerk of the Convention be directed to furnish the delegate in Con- gress an authentic copy of the memorial. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion and the same was declared carried. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: There is a great international e.xhihition to come off in this country, and two states arc seeking the honor. Chicago being a western City and closest to us, and our sister Conventions having adopted some similar resolutions I offer the fol- lowing: The Clerk read as follows: Resolved, that this Convention favors the City Of Chicago as the place for holding the proposed worlds fair. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move to strike out Chicago and insert Helena. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I was about to amend hy in- serting Anaconda. The Chair put the question on the adoption of the resolution and the same was declared carried. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, Mr. Magin- nis, will he appointed to see that this resolution reaches the proper sources. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I move we take recess. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: The special Committee on Revision have directed me to report Pi'oposition No. 32 on Military Reservations back to the Convention without change. The Pi'esidrnI : If (here lie no olijection Ihis report will be received and adopted and the article will he rcfrrred to the Engrossiu'.; and Enroll- ment Committee. The convention recently fixed the hoiu' Id wliirh we should take a recess at 'i o'clock. Mr. Middleton of Custer: .Tust a moment. T simidy liesire for intorin- at'on to ask if it is the sense of the convention that these propositiniis in which no change is niarle should be again brought up. The President: It is not necessary to bring them up at all. Mr. Warren of Silvei' Bow: I would suggest in that conneclioii fhut they be rewritten. The President: They shoulil be nnvritfen unqui'slionaldy nnd it might lie well for the Revision Committee to turn Ihem mcr (n llii' V.n- gios^ment Coiumittee at once. The Chair put the question on the motion to take a recess and a \(ite being lak^n the same was declared carried. Till' convention fnok a recess until 'i P. ^I. '( P. M. Ihc convention was i-allrii lo oi'dcr li\ llic Pri'-iilciil. 'Hie Clerk called the roll. The President: What is the pleasure of the convention? The I'Jiair will suggest Ihat if the minutes of Ihe moi'ning session were i I llic\ coui I be copied in the .journal. 'I'he Clerk read the niinuirs ot Ilic innrning session. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher sent up a report of committee. The Clerk read as follows: ^Ii'. President: Yo>u- special (lonmiilti'e on Hexision beg le;i\i' lo rciiorl Ihat haviii.i; considcri'd I'roposil i'lii \o, 19 on Leiiislative I icparliin'ot^ lin's ic'ciimiiii'nd aiin'iidini'iils lirri'with as follows: The President: The amendments will be n'ad and if IIumi' be no objection will be consid(M'(>d adopled. The (~;ierk read as follows: Isl. Seidion 1, line 15, insert words "odd numbered" after (he word "from", and after Ihe word "district": same line, strike out words "mnnbered odd numbers". Section i, line IS, insert words "exen luimbei'ed" after (he word "fi'om". .\ft<'r word Mislricts" line 18, strike out words "nninbei-i'd Ihe even numbers". Section "J, lini> 1, strike out the word "is". Seel ion S. insert woi'd "shall" at enil of line. Seciinn 7, sti'ike out words "aKniney at law". Se<'tion 1.1. line I in- CONSTITITIONAT, rONVENTIoN 188!) ^7 sert "sessions" in lieu of "session." Seftion 1 i, strike out "the" at tMKi of hill 1 S(>ction 15, line '». strike out the words "or sur.'ly '. Sec- tion to. line i. strike out tin- words "or surety". Section 15. line li, insert "sessions" in lien of "session". Section 17. line 9. strike out words "in the" hefoi'e word "Stale" and insert "under the laws of". Section lo, striiie out first 8 lines and insert the following': "Section 16. The sole power of impeachment shall vest in the House of Representatives, the con- currence of a majority of all the members bi'ing necessary to Uie exercise. Impeachments shall be tried by the Senate sitting for that purpose and Ihc Scnatoi's sliall be upon oalh or affirmation to do justice according to law and evideni'c.' Section 2i. line 0. strike out the word "to". Section 38. line -i. insert "the" in lieu of "this". Section 4(5. lines I, 11 and 15. insert "Legislative Assembly" in lieu of "Legislature". Leave out Section Ki and include it in Proposition on Executive as Section 8. Section 20. line 1. insert the w'ord "every" before the word "law". Sec- tion 3i, strike out last line of section, being the words ""except intere^ on the public debt"". Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: 1 have an indistinct recollection that when that amendment w'as up there were strong arguments offered here why that amendment should prevail. I have a recollection, yet it is some- what indistinct. Possibly someone may be present who offered that amendment. Mr. Hickman of JIadison: I offered that amendment, from the simple fact that it is often the case that the interest on the public debt has to be paid in New York, the bonds being held there. You do not know exactly how much money you need in Xew York for the purpose of meeting those coupons when they become due. and if you depend on writing on there and ascertaining how much money you have to pay for a certain number of coupons, why, it is going to hamper matters. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis \- Clarke: Besides that. I would add. Mr. President, securities could never be very well disposed of except some provision was made for the permanent appropriations. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: It was the idea of some of the committee that the interest on the public debt was always paid in accm-dance with some law on the subject, and to that extent that it would not need to be an excepion to the rule with regard to payments made from the Ti-easury. because it is always in accordance with some provision of law. Mr. Maginnis of licwis Ot Clarke: I am very sure, if the gentleman will read the funding acts of the United States he v\'ill see that the interest is made payable by annual appropriations, and if he will look over the appropriation bills he will never see any appropriation for it. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: That was the view the committee took of it. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: If I understand, the convention did not give this committee authority to change any propositions adopted by the convention. I made objection at the time tliat it was unn(>cessary and that general ajipropriafions are usually made by the Legislature on any accruing indebtedness. Mr. Callaway ol Madison: Mr. President, in accord willi llii' gentle- man from Lewis «.t Clarke, Mr. Hershfield. I rise to an inquiry as lo whether the Committee on Revision and Phraseology are revising and amending our work. I do not know the exact extent of their authority: I do not care: but after this convention has gone through Committee of the Wholi^ upon all these propositions and they have been adopted by tlie convention and referred to this committee for that single purpose. I suggest that while there are some things in this constitution that I do not like, and while there are some things that are not in there that T would like to have seen incorporated, I am satisfied as a whole wilh it as a compromise: but after that amendment has been made, then for that committee to come here and to strike out an amendment ami submit it lo the convention. I simply ask of this convention if that is their piov ince? r dont know: I ask for information. Mr. Craven of Lev\"is ^^ Clarke: I speak as an individual member of that committee, and T will say for myself and for the committee that we do not understand it is within our power to strike out amendments which have been offered, or in any way other than to express the ripjnion of Ihe convention. Xow. with reference to this particular suggestion. I think if you will leave it the way the convention has left if. that exception would allow the interest on the pulilic ilebt paid without wai'i-ant. and 958 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES since the interest on the public debt will be provided for by law anyway, we saw no use of the amendment, and therefore made the suf-'gestion. Mr. Hershfield of l^ewis iS: Clarke: I think the j^entlcman is tiuitc right. The amendnn'nt is iinni'eessary. and I so expressed niysi-lf at the time. Mr. Maginuis of Lewis iK; Clarke: 11 seems to me tliat Ibis seelion ciiiilains two provisions. .Nnw. interest on the public debt might have to be paid without laws. 1 think Ibe section bad better stand just as it is. Tlie President: The Chair is of the opinion that except by unanimous consent nothing in the way of an amendment which embraces striking out or adding thereto can b(" entertained, and if there should be an> objection to the change proposed, it will ha\e to remain as it stands in the original engrossed co|i\-. Mr. .Marshall of .Missoula: 1 hope that tlie convention will unani- mously agree to this atnendnient. 1 tliink'it is important. Now. is not that section liable to this construction, that e\en the interest on the public debt may be paid without appropriation? Mr. Maginnis of Lewis lS: Clarke: I think it was the intention of the converdion to say the interest on the public debt should be paid by appro- priations made by law-, but that warrants shpuld not be necessary. Mr. Marshall of .Missoula: There ought to be something to show what it is drawn for, and a warrant on tlie treasury ought to be diawn for money to pay the debt by some officer, and certainly no money ought to be taken out of the public treasury except by an appropriation made by law. I say this section is liable to the construction that mmiey to pav tlie public debt may be taken out of the treasury even without any appi'opriation. and it seems to me it ought to be stricken out by unani- mous consent. Mr. Rickards of Silver Hnw: I did not think I would provoke any discussion on this matter wlien I called fh(^ attention of this body to it. L however, take this view of the situation. This amendment was ado|iti'il by this convention. Fully one-third of the membership of this body ai'e absent, and the queslion arises in my mind as to whether we have the right to suspend the rules withoiit. the unanimous consent of this body on Ibis matter. Mr. Kanouse of Meagher: .\s a member of the committee on revision. in the absence of the Chair. I desire to draw the attention of this conven- tion to the way in which the additional members w-ere appointed — that where the intention of the conxention se(MUs incompletely expressed the commillee shoulrl amend such and report it to the convention. It was the idea that it was not the intention of thi^ convention that payments sho\ild he made on interest any moi'e than lor any otbei' piu-pose in the absence of an appropriation made for thai purpose or in the absence of some wari'ant drawn by a proper officer. It seems to me that the Ian guage used in the proposition might be construed to allow the paymenl of interest on the public debt, or Ibe public deBf itself, in the absence of any appropriation whate\er. I submit that it is susceptible of suidi a construction, and it seems to me that it w-ould be perfectly proper and would perhaps be carrying out the ideas which wviuld prevail with a majority of this convention, that no interest should be paid evc(i|i| liv an appropi-iation made by law — wbelber a periuanenl law upon the subject 01' (Tie made for the particular pin'pose of payment of some particular claim — and also thai the pi-opep officer should rlraw bis warrant. Inti'cest has never been ]iaid except upon appropriation anri upon wai'rani drawn for the purpose. Mr. Hickman of Madison: 1 beg leave to differ with Ibe gentleman. If is a well known fact that when a State or Territory or any municipality or county wish to float bonds that they have got to expressly slalc that Ibe bill authorizing the same has set aside a sinking fiuid for the |)ui-pose ol paying the interest and also paying the bonded debt when it becomes due. ^ou cannot sell a bond of the State or Terriloiy mdess this thing is provided foi- — for the payment of Ibe interest and Ibe paymenl of the debt when matured, by a sinking fund: and suppose you sell \our bonds outside the TiM'ritriry, in New York, foi' instance, it generally proviiles that the iidei'est when due, payable semi amiually, shall be paid in New- York or al the cai)ital of lln- State at the option of Ibe holders. N\'ell. suppose Ihey are held laraelv in New York or in Europe and the\ say they wani the inlerr'st paid in New Yoi'k: you ari' compelled to keep ;\ fund on band, an account in New York, to pay those coupons when due. Now. must you wail unlil Ihi' auditor draws these wai'raids for e\i>ry lillle ;uuouid you CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVENTION 1889 959 want to draw, or will the Troasuror be authorized to keep that account there instead of drawing on I he auditor? That is the point. The President: Objection having been raised to the adoption of this amendment, it will be passed. Mr. -Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I withdraw my objection. Mr. Presiderit. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I nlijecl ufion principle — not upon this proposition. The President: .Mr. Callaway of Madison makes objection to the strik- ing out of this as provided by the amendment of the Revision Committee. The Revision Committee, as the Chair understands, has no authority to change the substance but simply to remove conflicting propositions and to improve the verbiage and phraseologj-. The amendment will not bo adopted. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: If we can get unanimous consent to strike that out. I think it would be a wise thing to do. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I rise to a point of order. I understand objection has been made and probably will not be withdra\^Ti. What is the use of laying this matter over? The President: The point of order is well taken. The Clerk read as follows: Section 10. last line on page of engrossed copy. Insert "in" in 'lieu of "into". Section 46, insert after the word "and" the words "he shall perform". The President: This is all of the amendments to Proposition No. 19. The proposition as now amended will be referred to the Engrossment and Enrollment Committee. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 28 on Miscellaneous Sub- jects and Future .\mendment,s. Section 1. line 6. strike out the word "t-o". Section 8. line 4. strike out the word "recommend" and insert "submit". In line five, strike out the words "to vote". In line six. after the word "election" insert "the questtion whether there shall be"', and strike out the words in said line "for nr against"". Section 9. line 1. strike out the word "any"'. The President: These are all the corrections in Proposition No. 29. The proposition will now be referri'd to the Enrollment and Engrossment Committee. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 17 on Education. The committee propose that Proposition No. 17 on Education be anwnded as follows: Section 1 is a dujilicate provision of one contained in the Propo- sition on Ordinance, and the question of striking out is referred to the convention. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow asked for information in relation to same. .Mr. Craven of Lewis & Clarke fon behalf of the committee^ I would state that the reasons were given in the report. This is substantially the same provision that appears in the Ordinance No. II. I am told. Section No. II oT Proposition No. .33 on Ordinance is as follows: That provision shall he made for the establishment and maintenance of systems of public schools which shall be open to all the children of the State of Montana and free from sectarian control. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: The jioint T want to bring out is that I understand it is necessary from the Enabling Act that this shall be in the ordinance. Mr. Craven of Lewis A; Clarke: Yes sir. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I mm'e the adoption of the report of the committee on that section. The motion was seconded. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I was going to simply observe that while it is almost an exact duplicate of the oilier provision, yet it does seem to me that inasmuch as Section one of this Proposition 17 is so short and is .so appropriate, that there is no harm done by allowing them to remain, both of them, just as they are. The President: The gentleman from Madison Mr. Callaway} moves the adoption of the report of the committee. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I will object. It seems to be so appro- priate that I believe it ought to stand. Mr. Callaway of Madison: I withdraw the motion. The President: The motion is withdrawn. 960 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES The Clerk read as follows: Section 5. line 8, after the woiii "years" insert the words "residing therein respectively". Section 7. line ;j. change "age" to "ages". Section 10, line 1, change "Legislature" to "Legislative Assembly". Section 12, line 2. sti'iUe out "the". The President: These are all the amendments to Proposition No. 17. 'J'he proposition will be referred to the Enrollment Committee. The Clerk read as follows: The following amendments to Proposition No. ii on Rights of Suffrage and (Jualifications to hold office are recom- mended: Section 2, line 1, after first word "all" insert the word "the". Section 2, line 4, after words "at all general elections" insert "and for all officers that now are or hereafter may be elected by the people ami upon all questions which may be submitted to the vote of the people". Section 5, line 3, insert the word "time" in lieu of "times". Add to Section 9 the words "and fo declare who shall be deemed taxpayers when a (juestion shall be submitted to the vote of the taxayers as a class". Mr. Hickards of Silvei Bow: I object to that amendnnMit. Mr. Kanouse of Meaghei': I rise to a point of order, sir. Tliis eom- mittee were duly appointed under and by virtue of a resolution to do certain work and to report their action to this convention. If the action which the committee recommends is clearly within t.lii' provinci- or authority that was given them, it becomes a question with a ma,iorityof this convention to determine, upon their report being sent to ttiis convention, whether they shall adopt the action of the committee as the action of the convention or not, and it is not. within the province of a single man by an objection, where the committee has acted under the rules that have been provided for their action, to say what is the will of the convention with regard to the work that has been performed. That is my point of order. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: I have understood the Chair ruled that these matters could not be changed without unanimous consent, and as this proposition of the qualification of voters has been talki-d aljout a little more than any subject before ttiis convention. I think it is radically wrong to hoist in an amendment at this late day in the absence of so many mem- bers. The President: It was exiiressly stated when the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke made the motion that it was the intention that no matter should be changed, but that the committee was appointed simply for the purpose of removing any conflicting: statements or inconsistencies that might exist and foi' impro\ing the phraseology. All these mattiM's have to be placed upon their final iiassage, and certainly it would not he right to have any new matter interpolated or any new matter stricken out. The clear intent, as the Chair undei-stands. is simply to improve on the words, phrases and sentences of these various articles. These articles have all been placed upon their final passage and the ayes and nays haxc been called on every one of them. Mr. Carpenter of Lewis it Clarke. I would simply state that the object \vas not to change anything, but tn make the matter clear. It is simply amending the provision so as to make clear what might be doubt- ful. I will say further, Mr. President, that thei'e was no intention to change any express idea ot the couAcntion in any way except to make it more definite. Mr. Myers of Yellowstone: T do not wish to reflect in any manner whatever upon this connnittee. 1 belir-ve they have acted in the very best of faith, and I give them credit for trying to put this instrument into the very best possible form: but as I understand the reading of the matter proposed, it transfers to the Legislature authority which has been exer- cised and passed upon by this convention— that if would leave it to the Legislatm-e to declare a man a taxpayer and entitled to vote who might simply pay a license to retail any connnodity. whiskey, tobacco, etc.. in the community for a short period— that that would entitle liim to be classeil as a ta\|iayer. I tliink the conxention has discussed this matter and have deliberately and naturalh' jinssed u|ion all the iirovisions ami evei-ything pertaining to tlie ipialilicalions of a voter. Hence. I think anything pertaining to a i-liange in the ciiaractei- ol' Ibe provisions would be radically wrong. Ml'. Hickards ot Silver' How: I want to say, since it has been my mis- fortune to have precipitated twice today an argument of this character— I simply want to sax- this, that in my judgment were we to allow at this time, oi- any tinn'. Ibis committee to reconnnend oi' offer an amendiin-nt. th.'il mi^lil cliairje llie iiieaiiint; oi Ibese projiosit ions, we would Im' estah- CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 961 lishing a precedent that might hel'ore this convention adjourns launch us into two or three days debate; and tiierel'ore I think we had better draw the lines, and I accordingly renew my objection. I want to be consistent. I raised my objection a moment ago because I felt we would be establish- ing a wTong precedent, and thinking over it again the last few minutes I see no reason why I should withdraw my objection. The President: The Clerk will proceed. -Mr. Carpenter of Lewis & Clai'ke: Can this matter be disposed of by a single objection? The President: It has been ruled that unanimous consent is necessary. The Clerk read as follows: Section 11. line 2. after word "elections" insert '"and for State offficers"". Insert Proposition No. 39 as Section 12 of this proposition 'No. 14 and make Section 12 Section 13. We recom- mend that the following be inserted as separate articles before tlie article on legislative departments, and that subsequent articles be renumbered to accord. Article Distribution of Powers. The powers of the gov- ernment of this State are divided into three distinct departments, the legislative, executive and judicial, and no person or collection of persons charged with the exercise of powers properly belonging to one of these departments shall exercise any powers properly belonging to either of the others, except as in this constitution expressly directed or permitted. The President: If there be no objection to this recommendation, it will be adopted. • Mr. Hickman of Madison: Before that is adopted. I would like to inquire if the Chairman of the Committee on Legislative Departments (Mr. Toole; if he has any objection to this. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I do not think there is any objection to it. The President: The amendments will be considered adopted and the proposition referred to the Enrollment and Engrossment Committee. Th Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 10. Article on Executive Departments. In line four of Section 3 of the engrossed copy the words "until otherwise provided by law" are stricken out. Section 3, line 20. should not the word "three" be "two". Mv. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move that the word stand as "two". The President: If there be no objection, it will stand as two years instead of three. The Clerk read as follows: Section i. line 3-5. Strike out "one of them" and insert "officer". The President: If there be no objection this will be changed. The Clerk read as follows: Section 7 on line 23, strike out all of the section after the word "qualified". The President: If there be no objection this will be amended as reported. The Clerk read as follows: After Section 7 insert as Section 8 Section 46 of the Article on Legislative Department and renumber all subsequent sections to accord. The President: If there be no objection, this amendment will be adopted. Mr. Knowles of Silver Bow: I move the convention do now adjourn. Mr. ^^■a^ren of Silver Bow: I move we take a recess until eight o'clock. Mr. Knowies of Silver Bow^: I will withdraw my motion then. Tlie motion of the gentleman from Silver Bow Mr. Warren^ was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until 8 o'clock P. M. The convention was called to order bv the President at 8 P. M. The Clerk called the roll. The President: The convention will now resume consideration of Proposition No. 10. The Clerk read as follows: Section 8, line 17. strike out "a" and insert "the". Strike out line 20 and the first three words of line 21. On line 22. strike out "thereon" and insert "thereof". Line 27. strike out the final "s" of the word "proof", and after "roof" in.sert the word "that": and in line 28 before the word "time" insert "the": and on line .30 strike 962 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES out "shall have" ami insert "has". On line 29 after the word "and" insert the wdi'd "of" and strike out the words "applied for" and insert the word "sought". Mr. Luce, of Callatin: I object to strikint-' out the words "shall have been" and inserting "has". It is certainly unf^rainmatical. Tho President: The gentleman from Gallatin objects to the amend- ment on the ground Hint it is not grammatical, and that the words as they are are more appropi-iate. Ml'. Watson of Fergus: I move that the amendment read as follows: "Until notice of the time and place of such hearing and of tlie relief sought shall h.ave been given by publication", etc. Tile motion was seconded. The Chair put (be (juestion on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk reatl as follows: Section 9. strike out the word "com- mencement" on line 28 and insert the word "beginning". Section 10, strike out "he has" on lino 4 and insert "it is", and after the word "convened" on said line, strike out "it". Section 11, line 28, strike out "Legislature" and insert "Legislative Assembly". Line 34, strike out "Legislature" and insert "Legislative Assembly". Line 39. strike out 'Legislature" and insert "Legislative Assembly". Section 14, line 25, insert the words "pro tempore" after "president" in line 21, and strike out "pro tem", and after the word "president" insert "pro tempore". Section 16. line 2, strike out "this" and insert "the". Section 19, line 19, strike out "Legislative" and insert "Legislative Assembly". On third from last line of section add "s" to the word "deem". The President: Proposition No. 10 on Executive Departments will be referred to the Engrossment Committee, the amendments read by the Clerk being adopted if there, be no objection. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 21, article on Judiciary Departments. Section 2, line 13, strike out "superintending" and insert "supervisory". Section 17, line 5, insert after the wwrd "in" the word "each". In line 6, omit the final letter "s" in the word "districts". In lino 8, strike out the words "District Judge" and insert "Judges of such district". Section 30, strike out line one and insert the following: "No Justice of the Supreme Court nor Judge of the District". Section 31, strike out lines one and two and insert the following: "No Justice or Clerk of the Supreme Court, nor Judge or Clerk of any District Court shall act". Section 33, line 2, strike out "Judges" and insert "Justice.s". Section 34, strike out lines one, two and three, and insert as follows: "Vacancies in the office of Justice of the Supreme Court, or Judge of the District Court or Clerk of the Supreme Court shall be filled by". The President: These being all the amendtnents to Proposition No. 21, they will be considered ado|)ted, if there be no objection, and the proposition will be referred to the Engrossing Committee. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. President, your special Committee on Hr'\ision beg leave to repoi't that they have considered proyiosition returned herewith and recommend the adoption of amendments as follows: Proposition No. 30, Public Iiideliledness. Section 6. On line 1,"), sti'ike out the word "providi'" and on line 16 strike out the words "foi' an increase in" and insert the word "extend". The President: These being the only amendments to Proposition No. 36, (hey will be considered adopted and the proposition r'eferred to the Engrossing ConuniKee. Proposition No. 2-'i and 3.5 are returned without correcdon. They will likewise be sent to the Engrossment Committee. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Mi-. President. Pi'oposition No. 27 is reported back without correction. .Mso Proposition No. ,S8 on Schedules. .Neither of them needs correction. The President: The propositions will be relViieil to Ihe Engrossing f Committee. The Clei'k rend as follows: Proposition \o 10. Appurl ioninenl nod Hi'liresentatioii. On tine 4 of Section 2. ai'ti-r Ihe wiu'd "in" insei't llie words "(he year". The Pr'esidenI : This being (he oidy correction to t'ro|Hisil ion .No. 10. it will be considered adopted and Hie propositinn rcfi'ired to dn' Engross- ing Commilte. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 31. Sect'on 3. on line 6. strike out the word "for" after the word "jiroxy". Section 20, line 1 'i, strike out "Legislntiu-e" rind iiisei'l "I.e-islat ivc Asseinlily". CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 963 The President: These being all the amendments to Proposition No. 31. they will be considered adopted and the proposition referred to the Engrossing Committe. The Clerk read as follows: Proposition No. 33 on Ordinance. At end of line one of Ordinance 2, insert the word "proposed". Ordinance 7, on line 10. insert after the word "of" the word "public". The President: These being all of the amendments to Proposition No. 33. they will be considered adopted and the proposition referred to the Engrossing Committee. The Clerk read as follows: Election Ordinance. Mr. President: Your Comniitlee on Revision report Proposition 33 with amendments herewith, which they recommend be adopted. Election Ordinance. Proposition No. 33. Ordinance 3. Strike out on line 2 the words "places in the several". Strike out on line 5 of Ordinance 3 the word "this" and insert "the". On line 8. strike out the word "this" and insert "the". On line 10 strike out the word "this" and insert "the". On Jine 16, strike out the word "this" and insert "the". Ordinance 5. On line 3, after the word "canvassed" insert "by the canvassing boards of the respective counties". On line 14 strike out the words "a majority" and insert "any two of them". Ordinance 11. On line 4. after the word "the" insert the words "Clerks of the" and on line 3 insert before the word "for" the word "and". The President: These being all of the amendments to Proposition No. ."^3. they will be considered adopted and the proposition will be referred to the Enprossing Committee. Mr. Mayger of Lewis & Clarke: If in order. I would like to turn back to Proposition No. 31. In Section 20 of the printed copy. I think the word "that" ought to be stricken out. and on line six "that the Legislature shall pass laws". It ought to be "the Legislature shall pass laws". The President: If there be no objection to the amendments proposed by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke, they will be considered adopted. This completes all the amendments reported back by the Revision Com- mittee. It has been suggested by the Clerk that if the journal of the afternoon session could be read and written out it will facilitate business. If there be no objection the journal will be read. The Clerk read the journal of the afternoon session of this day. Mr. Rickards of -Silver Bow-: I move that wiien we adjourn we adjourn to meet at nine o'clock tomorrow morning. The motion was seconded. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move to amend that motion by making it 11 o'clock. It will be absolutely impossible for the Clerks -to enroll the work that is now on hand before 11 o'clock, and nothing can be accom- plished except we keep those Clerks at work. The amendment was seconded. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I know it is hardly in order, but yester- day we had a little latitude in discussing this matter, and I would like to "state my reason for m.aking this motion. Yesterday we discussed the hour of adjournment and we brought out several facts that I think have helped us today in expediting matters. My reason for making the motion to adjourn until nine o'clock, or rather fixing the hour of adjournment at nine o'clock, was that the enrolling Clerks now at work have doubtless already some of this work accomplished or completed, or they will have a greater part of it completed when they stop work tonight, and if so we can certainly meet tomorrow morning at nine o'clock and read what has been done, as we have been doing today. .As the committee have completed their work we have met here and taken up their work. Now. we have heard the Chairman of this committee say it would take about four or five hours tomorrow to read this entire constitution. Now, I feel like putting in a plea at this time for several of the members who have been here ever since this convention convened on the 4th of last month, and if it is in the range of possibility for us to complete our labors so that they can take the train tomorrow at four o'clock, they can reach their homes a few- hours later: w'hereas a delay of a few hours will keep them twenty-four hours longer. Now. if if is possible for us to meet at nine o'clock and have the Clerk read what has already been accomplished, it will expedite matters very much. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I w^as going to suggest that we pay these Clerks extra and let them work tonight. I would be very glad to pay one myself, and let them do this enrolling tonight and we will be reailv 964 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES to go to work at iiiiit' o'clock tomorrow morning. I woiihl bi; very glad to do that. Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, there is nobody here any more anxious to got home than I am, but this matter of pushing this work, which is very particular work, and exiiecting the work to be carefully done, is out of the question. It, is that character of work that a man cannot work at day and night continuously, ami llie Chairman of (lie Com- mittee on Revision informs me that they have reported inerything to the convention, so that the entire matter is now in the hands of the Enrolling Committee. It seems to me impossible to get through so as to let anybody get away at four o'clock. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: Would not it be better to meet at 11 o'clock and take no recess? Mr. Middleton of Custer: I think so. We can have the matter then all arranged and we can take it up and have it read. It takes a long while after some of these articles are enrolled, to compare them. I do not believe there will be anything gained by meeting earlier than 11 o'clock tomorrow. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I wish to remind this convention that yesterday when the suggestion was made by myself that we take up a few of the propositions that the committee had already completed, it was thought impracticable, and yet upon second sober thought this convention came back this morning for the purpose of taking up these matters as the Committee on Revision and Phraseology completed them: and I believe it is not impracticable for us to meet here tomorrow morning at nine o'clock and read what the Committee on Enrollment have already com- pleted. As for these Clerks, they have had a very easy time. Many of us have worked all night, and if it is necessary I am willing to take off my coal and work all night: and if these clerks cannot do it, I am willing to pay my share of the expense necessary to employ additional Clerks. I feel" like making an earnest plea for not hurrying matters but certainly being as expeditious as possible. I do not thinJi it is impracticable. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: There seems to be a growing sentiment in favor of completing this work very soon, and if it be found practicable to pay these Clerks a little extra tonight, I think it will aid the Committee on Revision to get through. I think we can finish our work by one or two o'clock tomorrow, and I am strongly in favor of meeting as early as nine o'clock. Mr, Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I move we adjuurn. Iliat will make it ten o'clock. The motion was seconderl. The Chair put the question (in tln' said molinn, and the same was declared lost. Mr. Witter of Hi'averhead: I uinve you that when we adjiuirn, we adjourn tn meet at nine o'clock tomorrow moi'niiig. The President: There was an amendment offeri'd In that Iliat it be made II o'clock. The question is now on the amendment. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I insist upon that motion. I will not be able to report any considerable pnrtidu of the conslilulinn hack here at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. The President: The Chair would suggest that there is no one more anxious to get away from here than the Chair, but he would admonish the gentlemen that by the exercise of any undue haste they might over- look some vital matters pertaining to this constitutioii, and while 1 know it is important and desirable to get away from here as quickly as pnssible, 1 insist that due attention be given to everything now at the laller end, so that we may make no mistakes. The Chair put the question on the said amendment. In adjourn to 11 o'clock, and the same was declared lost. The President: The question now is upon the motion that when the convention adjourn it adjourn to meet at nine o'clock tomorrow morning. The Chair put the question on tin' said motion, and the same was declared car'ried. Mr. Ilartman of (iallatin: Hel'nre tlie convention ailjourns, in order that we mav not have aiiv imperfectly i)rinted constitution, I move that a conunittee be appointed by the Chair from the Lewis 1"^ Clarke County delegalion to I'ead the printed proof of the constitution before it is sent out. The milt ion was seconded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 965 The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President: The Chair will announce the committee with thi^ other committee that has been appointed in the morning. Mr. Biekford of Missouhi: I move we adjourn. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the guestion on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The convention stood adjourned until Saturday, August 17th. 1889. at nine A. M. THIRTY SKVEXTH DAY. Saturday, August 17th, 1889. The convention was called to order by the President at 9 A. M. The Clerk called the roll. The Chaplain offered proyer. The Clerk read the journal of the evening session of the previous day. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I have two or three resolutions here which I would like to have read. The President: Does the gentleman from Silver Bow desire to have these resolutions read or withheld until later on? Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: They may be withheld for the present. 1 would suggest that when the constitution is read, Mr. Kanouse or Mr. Hartman take the engrossed copies which were corrected and when the constitution is read by the Clerk that they notice whether the corrections have been made as recommended by the committee. I just make that as a suggestion. Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: Mr. President, the cashier of the Merchant.s National Bank requested me to make a statement this morning that will be good news to the pages and the clerks of this convention — those that are not provided for by the government — that upon properly certified accounts they can take them do\\Ti to the bank and he would pay them at par. The President: The gentleman from Lewis & Clarke Mr. Hershfield'' desires to make the statement to those interested that the cashier of the Merchants National Bank requested him to state that upon properly certi- fied accounts or statements of their accounts, the vouchers would be cashed at the Merchants National Bank without any discount. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I move that if the Constitution is to be read, that we proceed with the reading. The President: The Chair has inquired if there is any part of it ready. Will the Chairman of the Engrossing Committee state whether or not the constitution is ready? Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I would like to ask whether it is necessary, after having read this in Committee of the Whole and amended it, to have it read again in convention and amended, and have it referred to one or two comriiittees where it has been revised, if it is necessary still to have it read again here. I want the sense of the convention. I have no feeling in regard to it myself, but it seems to me it has been read so much that it has got to be a little monotonous. Mr. Cooper of (iallatin: It seems to me. Mr. President, this will only be the third reading and it will be necessary. Mr. Biekford of Missoula: I would suggest. Mr. President, that if has not been read at all since the engrossment of it and it will he necessary to read it over and have a comparison in some way by some member of the F.nsrossin? Cnmm'ttee between the constitution as it is now written and the part of the corrected bills from which it was transcribed. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I would like to ask if the committee have not read it over? Mr. Biekford of Missoula: That may be, hut in order that we may be doubly safe I think it would be well to oursue the reading of it, Mr. Burleigh of Custer: I have no objection to it myself. Mr. Rickards of Sdver Bow: I do not know, Mr. President, what is customary in a body like this. It my memory serves me correctly in a legislative body when a bill is reported back as correctly enrolled it is certainly not necessary to read it again to that body. The committee is supposed to correct any typographical errors. 960 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Ml". .Mitlillcliiii oT CusIit: Mr. Prcsidciil. Ilic si'M'ral propositidiis wito at times aiin'ndfMi and fearfully iiiutilalcd in thi' Conmiittcc of tlic Whole; Ihoy went into the eonvenlion and were placed upon their final passage without being engrossed: then were referred to the engi'ossing- eoinmittee for the jiurpose of engrossing the bills with Ihose amendments; then these pi'opositions went to the Conmiittee fin Revision and Phraseology. They have been again correeled and Ijave gone through the hands of another eonnnittee, and I do not believe there is any member id' this eonxention would feel that he was doing himself or the people that sent him here justice if he would sign a garbled report of this kind without heai-ing it read for himself. I was aii.xious to get away from here three weeks ago. Within the last 12 or 20 hours there seems to be undue haste manifested on the part of a few, and I sumbit that in an hour and a half or two hours the committee will be able to ijresenl the whole matter intact, all as one document, and that it should be read section by section and ever\- word of it, and I believe that it can be done today. So far as I am personally concerned, I would not liesilale lo sign the constitution, because it has passed under my eyes, neaiMy all of it: but that is not true as to most of the members of the con\ention. and it cei'tainly is at this time too import- ant a matter to jumble over with haste. So far as I am personally con- cerned, I do not want to assume the res[)onsibility as Chairman of the committee and have any member si<-'n it without having read it over word for word. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: If that be the case, and I have no doubt that the views of my colleague are correct, why not go on? It is not necessary to have it all pinned and starched, ^^'hy not fake it up in the order in which it is sent in to us by the committee? It is not necessary to wait two or three hours to commence it. It seems to me it is a waste of time. Mr. ^^'arren of Silvej' Bow: We have been here about six weeks trying to get this constitution in shape, and I feel we ought not to jump o\er six weeks work in three hours. So far as I am concerned I would rather stay here another week. We have been here six weeks, and 1 lielieve in having the matter right. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: In order to gel the sense of this body. I move that we take up the enrolled propositions in the order in which they are to be printed in the constitution. The motion was seconded. Mr. .Middleton of Custer: I hope that motion will not prevail, and for the very reasons that I have stated. This matter should not be settlmi by piecemeal and afterwards entrusted to Clerks or other persons to fix u|i. If it is a constitutjon at all it is as a whole. The diffei-ent proprtsil ions as ordered to be arranged by the Committee on Revision are not in (he hands of the Committee on Enrollment in that shape. The bill on judiciary has not yet been copied; there are two or three others that are not quilc completed. So far as I am concerned, as Chairman of that connnillee. 1 am not ready to report back a single proposition at this moment, and I'efuse to do it unless the convention orders me. I think I can report. the whole matter back in an hour and a half, but not sooner. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: With all due respect, I think he • impeaches the intelligence of that committee and this body when he says we cannot take up these propositions and arrange them in the order in which they shall be arranged. Now, those propositions stand out (>aeh for itself in their own order, and it seems to me we can take up all these and dispose of them before we take up the executiNc ii\- the judiciai'v departments, anil I hope the motion will prevail. Mr. Luce of Gallatin: It is an old and trite saying that thai which is worth doing at all is worth doing well. We have spent six weeks here now and a little over and I would like to see the business finished up in order, and if it takes a day longer, all well and good, I am willing lo .■^lay here and see it properly finished up. Now, when the Chairman of this committee says he is not ready to repoi't and cannot reasonably rejiort any of these propositions at this time, I think it is worthy the considera- tion of this convention and that that should ha\e some weight here, (ien- tlemeii seem lo get in a hurry all al nnc(>, and I have thought sometimes that the ron\ention has been luinecessai'ily delayed by motions to adjourn, by leave.s of absence, by going away Thursday and getting lea\e until Tuesday oi- Wednesday. .Now. in completing this instrument. T say. in the name of justice and in the name of the people, let us do it considerately and in ordin'. Let us take the word of Ihe Chairman of the Connnittee on Enrollment and go ahead with this business orderly and deliberately and CONSTITUTION^VL CON^^ENTION 1889 9G7 not have any mistakes at the end. Notwithstanding we have been here six weeks we found that when we came to put this constitution together there were grevious mistakes. .Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: I move we take a recess until 11 o'clock. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until II o'clock A. M. The convention was called to order bv the President at II A. M. The Clerk called the roll. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: Mr. President. I notice that the Committee on Revision and Phraseology have overlooked one article, the article on Apportionment and Representation. I therefore make the motion that that article be placed between the article on Legislative Derartment-s and Executive Departments and be numbered six. The proposition is No. 40. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President: There are some resolutions here offered by the gentle- man from Lewis i^ Clarke (Mr. Toole . They may be considered now. The Clerk read as follows: "Resolved, That immediately upon the adjournment of this convention it shall be the duty of the President to deliver the original enrolled constitution of the State as adopted and passed by this convention to the Secretary of the Territory of Montana, who shall deposit and preserve the same among the archives of the Terri- tory." Mr. Conrad of Choteau: I move the adoption of the resolution. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The Clerk read the following resolution also offered by the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke iMr. Toole : "Resolved. That when the constitution and address shall have been printed as provided by an ordinance of this convention, it shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Territory, to whom the same shall be delivered, to mail fifty copies of the same to each member of this convention and to send the remainder thereof to the several County Clerks of this Territory for distribution." Mr. Conrad of Choteau moved the adoption of the resolution. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President: \\"hat is (he pleasure of the convention? Mr. Middleton of Custer: Mr. President, the committee is ready to report except upon the article on judiciary, and that will probably take 20 minutes before it is ready, and it has not yet been compared. All the rest of the propositions have been compared and are arranged, witlt the exception of that. There is about one page, or a trifle over a page, yet to be copied. 1 suppose it might be inserted and read without hems compared by the committee on enrollment. It can be compared at the time it is being read by the clerk. The President: If there be no objection, the reading of the con- stitution will be begun. Mr, Middleton of Custer: We cannot very well fasten the work to- gether. There is about a page yet to be finished. It will take about 15 minutes yet to do it. The President: Is there any other business that the convention desires to consider while we are waiting for this? Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: If it be in order, I believe there has been some discussion among the members as to whether or not it would not be proper to add two more members to the committee on address, I therefore move that the committee be increased to seven members. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move that when we take a recess, it shall be until the hotion vi the resolution. The motion was seconded. The President: There is a niolion lo appoint a committee of three, which ought to be withdrawn before this is put. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move that the motion by which the committee of three was to be appointed to superintend the printing of the constitution be reconsidered. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow": In support of this resolution I would say that it is but just that this committee be appointed from Lewis & Clarke county. I have added there as a clerk of that committee Mr. Bernard, who has been a clerk of the committee on taxation and revenue. Mr. Bernard is perhaps one of the very best proof readers in Montana, and that is the reason I offer the resolution as it is. The chair put the question on the adoption of the said resolution, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Riekards of Silver Bow: I move we take a recess. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The convention took a recess until one o'clock P. M. RECESS The convention was called to order by the President at one P. M. The clerk called the roll. There being no quorum present, a call of the house was ordered. A quorum having arrived, further proceedings under the call w-ere dispensed with. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow offered thi' following ordinance. ORDINA.XCE NO BE IT ORDAINED: That the estimate provided for in Ordinance No. 3i for the payment of the e.xtra employes, etc., of this convention, he and is hereby increased in the sum of one hundred dollars ($100! for the pur- pose of paying Henry Bernard, a secretary and proof-reader to the com- mittee on supervising the printing of the conslitution, and to defray the cost of typye-writing, etc. RESOLVED, That a certificate lo cover the expenditure mentioned in this ordinance be issued to Heiuy Bernard for the payment of the same, and in the manner provided for in Ordinance and Resolution No. 3i. Mr. Warren of Sih'er Bow moved the adoption of thi' ordinance. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on llie said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President: There is a resolution offer(nl by .Mr. Knipi)enberg of Beaverhead County on the clei'k's desk. The clerk will read the same. The clerk read as follows: RESOLVED. 'I'hat the President of this convention is hereby rerpiested to appoint a committee of seven (71 (the I)residenl himself to' be (he chairman of such commilteei which shall pre- pare |)laiis and by-laws by which all the members and employes of this convention shall fm-m a i)ei'maneid. organization and may me(>t socially at least once each year, so that the happy and agreeable relationships here foi'ined may endure and even strengthen in the yeai's to come. This com- niillee shall be known as the "Executi\e Coinmitli'i'" and shall have full CU.NSTITUTKJ.NAL CU.WENTIU.N 1889 "JOy Iiower to Pled the proper officers for the first year, or until the first annual meeting of the proposed organization". Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I move the adoption of the resolution. The motion was carried. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President: The chair will appoint on that committee Messrs. Knippenherg. Maginnis. Stapleton, Marshall, Gibson, Rickards. and Myers. The committee on address will be as follows: -J. K. Toole, Callaway, Dix- on, Carpenter, Collins, Bickford and Warren. Mr. Middlelon of Custer: Mr. President, your committee on engross- ment and enrollment are ready to report. The President: The clerk suggests that the minutes be allowed to be read, and that they can be copied now and be ready to be signed when the convention adjourns. The clerk read the minutes of the morning session. The President: The report of the Committee on Enrollment will now be read. The clerk read as follows: Mr. President: Your Committee on En- grossment and Enrollment to whom were referred all of the propositions and articles together with ordinances and memorial to the Senate and House of RepresenTatives of the United States for the purpose of being enrolled and arranged, with the several articles properly numbered, beg leave to report that your said committee have performed that duty, and herewith submit an enrolled copy of the whole of said matter. (Signed MIDDLETOX. Chairman. Mr. Middleton of Custer stated that there was a memorial on lead ore, and asked whether it should be enrolled. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: In connection with that memorial, as I understand, it does not go into the constitution. The Chief clerk enrolled the memorial. Mr. Middleton of t'.uster: It is true, it does not go into the constitu- tion, but it is customary that ordinances, which are no part of a consti- tution, and memorials, are as a rule printed with them, and for that rea- son I believe it should be a part of this report. The President: The clerk has an enrolled copy of this memorial that might be sent to the Enrolling Committee and be referred. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move, Mr. President, that that be done. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the Warren memorial be enrolled and published as a part of the ordinance. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I call for a division on the question, and before the motion is put 1 desire the attention of the members called as to what is the motion. The President: The question is \ipon the adoption of the motion to have the memorial which has been sent to Congress touching the ques- tion of lead ores engrossed and published in a proper place in the con- stitution. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I think the chair is misinformed as to the motion. As I understand the motion, it is to have the memorial engrossed and a copy forwarded to the Secretary of the Treasury. The President: The chair has already forwarded a copy to the Sec- retary of the Treasury. ^ir. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: There certainly is some impropri- ety in embodying in our constitution a simple memorial expressing the opinions and the wishes of our convention, and it certainly should not be printed and become a part of our constitution. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I do not think the gentleman from Lewis & Clarke understands the purpose of the motion. It is not that it become a part of the constitution. The ordinances are no part of the constitution, liut the ordinances of the convention are almost invariably printed with the constitution, and so are the memorials to Congress. I have no inter- est in the question, but I submit in my judgment it was one of the mem- orials that was passed by this convention, and if any memorial is pub- lished with the constitution it certainly should be with the rest. There is only one memorial. I believe — one to Congress and the other to the Sec- 970 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES rttary of the IiiU'iior; and I know of no reason why it sliould not go before the people as the expression of lliis convention upon that question. The l^resideiit: . The question is to engross tlie memorial and publish it in connection with the constilution. The chair put Ihe question on the said motion, and the same was declared lost on division. The l-'resident: The chair would state that he has already forwarded a copy of the memorial to Ihe Secretary of the Treasury. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: As I understand, that is all that is re- quired in the matter. Mr. Cooper of Gallatin: 1 move we proceed to the reading of the constitution. The motion was seconded. The President: If there be no oljjection, the clerk will now Ijcgin the reading of the constitution. The clerk read at some length. Mr. Burleigh of Custer: (Interrupting tiie clerk , .Mr. President, there are some men who distrust their friends without purpose or reason. Now, I am willing to trust our committees. l'"or that reason. I hope the reading will be dispensed with. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I hope the request will certainly be with- drawn for the purpose of reading the article on Judiciary. That has not been compai'ed by any committee. So fai' as I am concerned, I shall msisl u|ion reading and comparing that article. If if is the sense of the convention that the rest of the reading be dispensed with, I am agreeable. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow: I move that after the reading of the article on Judiciarv, the further reading of the constitution be dispensed with. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said inotiim. and the same was declared carried. The President: The clerk will now pi'oceed with tlie reading of the article on Judiciary. The clerk read said article. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I move that the clerk proceed to call the roll and that the constitution be placed on its final passage. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: I move that an attesting clause be added to the Constitution. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President: The chair did not understand the full intent of the gentleman's motion; whether it comprehends calling the ayes and nays upon the adoption of the Constitution first. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I will make the motion as well. The President: The question now is u|)on the adoption of the Con- stitution of the State of Montana. Those who are in favor of the adop- tion will when their names are called say aye. and those opposed no. The clerk will withhold the calling of the roll until the attesting clause is added. Mr. Bickford of Missoula sent up a resolution to the clei'k's desk. The President: If the gentleman from Gallatin will withhold his motion on the adoption of the Constitution until the resolution of the gentleman from Missoula can be considered, it will be received and read bv the clerk. Mr. Hartman of Gallatin: I withhold the motion for the present. The clerk read the resolution of the gentleman from Missoula (Mr. Bickford) as follows: WHEREAS, The Helena Independent, the Helena Journal, the Helena Herald, the Butte Daily Miner, and the Great Falls Leader have been laid upon the tables of the members of this conven- tion during its entire session: and WHEREAS, the reasonable value thereof is two hundred and fifty dollars. THEREFORE. Bo it ordained: That the sum of two hundred and fifty dollars is hereby made a charge against the State for the express purpose of paying said publications respectively, as follows: The Helena Daily Independent, Fifty Dollars. The Helena Journal, Fiftv Dollars. The Helena Herald. Fiftv Dollars. The Dailv Miner. Fiftv Dollars. The Great Falls Leader. Fiftv Dollars." CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 188!) 971 Mr. hiickfoni of Missoula: I wisli lu stair that the resolution is in- ti'oilui-ed because the l■esljecti^e uewspaiiers mentioned have materially aided the members of this convention in keeping track of the work. It has been just as much a part of our regular business to read the nei^-s- papers as it has been to read the journal; and by reading the news- l>apers we ha\'e been able to correct some of the errors that have crept into it. The l^resident: Before this motion is put, the chair desires to ask that the Butte Miner be eliminated from the provisions of the resolution. Mr. Aiken of Silver Bow: I move that the Boulder Age be inserted. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: 1 will accept that. Mr. Rickards of Silver Bow; I hope that if this resolution is carried the Butte Miner will not be eliminated. I think if any paper merits kind treatment from this convention it is the Butte Miner. I am op- posed to the resolution in to-to, but if it is going to pass I would like to see the Butte Miner included. Mr. Bickford of Missoula: I will ask permission to withdraw the resoiuuou until after action on the constitution. The President: The question now is upon the adoption of the Con- stitution. The clerk will call the roll. Mr. Maginnis of Lewis & Clarke: I ask unanimous consent that such of tlie members as desire to record their vote on the adoption of the Constitution, and who are now absent, may have that privilege later. The President: If there be no objection, the members who are now absent may have the privilege of coming in and recording their vote for or against the constitution and signing the instrument. It should be arranged to be signed alphaljetically. The clerk called the roll. The \ote stood as follows; Ayes: Aiken, Bickford, Brazlelon. Bi'een, Buford, Bullard, Burleigh, Burns, A. F.; Burns, A. J.; Burns, Edward; Cardwell, Carpenter, Cauby. Chessman, Conrad, Cooper, Craven, Dixon, Durfee, Dyer, Fields, Gaylord, Gillette, Goddard, Graves, Hammond, Hartman, Haskell. Hatch, Hershfield, Hickman, Hob- son, Hogan. Joyes, Kanouse, Kennedy, Knippenberg, Knowles, Loud, Magin- nis, Marrion. Marshall, Mayger, McAdow, Middleton, Mitchell, Muth, Myers, Parberrv. Ramsdell, Rotwitt, Rickards. Sargeant. Schmidt, Stapleton, Toole, J. K.; Watson, Whitehill, Winston, Witter, Mr. President— 6L Nays: Courtney and Warren. Absent: Browne, Callaway, Eaton, Joy, Kohrs, Reek, Robinson, Toole. J. R.: Webster— 9. Mr. Marrion of Missoula: T move that the delegation that desire to go home on the three o'clock train be allowed to sign the Constitution now. The motion was seconded. The Chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Hickman of Madison: I would like to inquire if tlie Chair has announced the vote on the Constitution. The president: There are nine absent, (il voting in the affirmative, and two in the negative. There is a sufficient number to adopt the Con- stitution, and it is hereby declared adopted. 'Applause . Mr. Hickman of Madison: I move that the members of the convention be allowed ten days in which to append their nanu^s to the Constitution. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. The President called Mr. Marshall of Missoula to the chair. The chairman (Mr. Marshall of Missoula in the chair^ ; Gentlemen of the convention: The following resolution has been offered by Mr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke. The clerk read as follows: RESOLVED. That the thanks of this convention be, and they are hereby tendered to the Hon. Wm. ,\. Clark for the able, faithful and efficient manner in which he has discharged the duties of presiding officer of this con\'ention, and for his uniform courtesy and impartiality, we extend to him our warmest gratitude. RESOTA'ED. That this convention, in its appreciation of the high char- acter and worth of its President, hereby expresi^es its sinceri^ wishes for his future health, happiness and prosperity, and that upon the dissolution of this convention, he will be accompanied by the earnest trust that his highest aspirations may be fulfilled, and his every aim realized. 972 PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES Mr. Hic'kards oT Silver Bow: 1 nio\L' the apcidtion of the resoliitiDU by a rising vote. The motion was seconded, and unanimously carried. Mr. Hershl'ield of Lewis iS: Clarke: Mr. Chairman and Mr. President: We have been here 45 days. I am certain that each member will carry away with him nothing- but pleasant recollections of his associations here and a consciousness of having discharged his duties faillifuliy, each according to his own conscience. I know that I express the views of all the members of this convention when I say' that you, Mr. President, will carry with you not only the respect but the best wishes of the members of your future happiness and prosperity. (Applause,'. The President: Mr. Chairman and gentleman of this convention: for the generous and very complimentary resolutions which have been aiiopted and which have been so eloquently supplemented by the reniark.s of the honorable gentleman from Lewis & Clarke county, I cannol sum- mon words to fitly express my .Tpprecialion and gratitude, and 1 desin; to avail myself of this opportunity to reciprocate the sentiment and to thank the gentlemen of this convention collectively, and each one of you personally, as well as the officers and attaches of the convention, for the indulgence, the forbearance, the courteous attention and the kind- ness which have uniformly and constantly characterized all of your actions and relations towards me. After forty-five days of arduous, and may I say with justice, conscientious labors on your part, during which time there have been discussed the most important and \ital questions affecting the interests of this State and which necessarily in- volved many heated, yet manfully-conducted contests, requiring frequent and prompt decisions from the ijresiding officer, I can point with pb'as- ure and pride to the fact that all these opinions have been received and accepted without appeal. This probably unparalleled experience in the history of legislative assemblies in this Territory implies a con- fidence in the judgment and fairness of the presiding officer, as well as a dignified and respectful consideration, which I heartily appreciate and shall ever remember with grateful pleasure, (Applause). We have now finished our labors and are about to append our names to the Constitution of the State of Montana. It is not a perfect instrument. In it are incorporated ideas and principles upon which we are not all agreed; but yielding gracefully to that recognized republican principle that the sense" of the majority should always prevail, we have almost unan- imously adopted it, and it will now soon be submitted to a ci-itical and intelligent people for their approval. I believe that, notwithstanding some imperfection, the people of Montana will adopt it. If there be defects the wisdom of future legislators may be confidently relied upon to a|iply the remedy. Montana has an opportunity now presented her wliicli she should not neglect to avail herself of. She cannot afford to pause or falter on the very eve and on the very threshold of admission while her three fair neighboring sisters are pressing forward to distinction and renown. (Applause). It is time to break the shackles that have for so long a time embraced the development of the resources of this country. It is time that this people, so richly endowed with all the qualities that go to noble manhood, should be entitled to enjoy the full privileges of American citizenship. Statehood will claim all of our energies and stim- ulate our ambition. It will encourage a faith in the stability and per- manency of this country and will induce large investments in our prop- erties. It will strengthen and enhance the credit not only of individuals but of the State; it will encourage the building of new lines of railways within our borders, and people our fertile valleys; it will establish new manufactures over this country; it will build up new cities and in- crease the population of the old ones, and it will facilitate the opening of the countless mines of this Territory. In conclusion, I trust that each one of you may live to enjoy a rea- sonable fruition of the labors you have performed here and until the envied yet deserved fame of this magnificent Slate, our beloved Mon- tana, whose fundamental law you have helped to frame, shall be ex- tended to all the ends of the earth. (".ApplauseV President Clark resumed the chair. The clerk read fhe resolution of Mr. Bickford of Missoula relating to pay of newspapers. Mr. Buford of Madison moved its adoption. The motion was seconded. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1889 973 The chair put the question on the said motion, and a division being called for, the same was declared lost by a vote of 13 in the affirmative to 17 in the negative. Mr. Fields of Park moved to reconsider the motion. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the motion, and the same was de- clared carried. - The President: The question is now before the convention again. Mr. Fields of Park moved the adoption of the resolution. The motion was seconded. The chair stated the question. The clerk read the resolution for the information of the convention. The cliair put the question on the said motion, and a division being called for, the same was declared carried by a vote of 24 in the affirm- ative to 20 in the negative. The President: The follo'^ing resolution has been offered by Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: RESOLVED. That William H. Todd. Chief Clerk, Jennie M. Merriman. Assistant Chief Clerk. John M. Kay. Ed. Kerr, E. C. Garrett, Lee Swords, John M. Trumbull, Henry Barnard. Clerks, and G H. Stanton, engrossing and enrollment clerk, for their fidelity in the faithful discharge of their arduous and laborious duties, and the thanks of this body are hereby tendered them. Mr. Burleigh of Custer moved the adoption of the resolution. The motion was seconded, and the resolution declared carried. Mr. ^^■ar^en of Silver Bow also offered the following resolution: RESOLVED, That the thanks of this convention are hereby extended to Samuel Alexander, Sergeant at Arms, and William I. Green, Assist- ant Sergeant at Arms of this House, for the thorough and satisfactory manner in which they have discharged their duties. The resolution was unanimously adopted. The following resolution was also, offered by Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: RESOLVED. That Eugene Dickerson. Maurice Langhorne, Cor- nelius Hedges. Jr. and \Mlliam Alexander. Pages of this House, have earned the gratitude of the members of this convention for their faith- ful discharge of duty as Pages, and the thanks of this body are hereby tendered them. The resolution w-as unanimously adopted. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow also offered the following resolution, which was unanimouslv adopted. RESOLVED. That the prayers of Rev. H. E. Clowes. Chaplain of this Convention, have largely contributed to the good feeling and comfort of the members thereof, and that the thanks of this convention be and the same are hereby extended to him. with the best wishes of the members. Mr. Middlefon of Custer: Mr. President. I move you that the gen- tleman from Silver Bow 'Mr. Warren" be tendered a vote of thanks by this convention for his efficiency and versatility in perparing resolutions. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Bickford of Missoula offered the following resolution: RESOLVED, That Lee Swords be and he is hereby appointed clerk of the Committee on Address, and the chief clerk of this convention is au- thorized and directed to add an additional sum of twenty-five dollars in the warrant heretofore provided for to pay him for said services. The resolution was adopted. Mr. Middleton of Custer: I move you that the President of this con- vention be instructed to send appropriate messabes to the other con- ventions that are still in session, indicating our ad,journment today. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: T just wish to observe here that since the Constitution has been so nearly unanimously adopted. I wish to change my vote and vote aye. Afr. Hershfield of Lewis & Clarke: I object. Mr. Courtney of Silver Bow: T wish to say further. Mr. President, that I was not actuated by any antipathy to the instrument, but T did so for this reason, that in as much as I voted against certain propositions which the instrument contained, I wished to be consistent, but it oc- 974 I'HOCEEDIAGS AND DEBATES curreii to me that a wrong interpretation of the vote miglit Ije put upon it, and so 1 desire to change. Mr. Hershlield of Lewis & Clarke: I will withdraw my olijeetion, Mr. President. The President: By unanimous" consent, the vote of the gentleman from Silver Bow (Mr. Courtney j will be changed to aye. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: While there are very many things in this constitution which 1 have voted against, and while there are some things in it that I do not believe in, 1 do not desire to stand hero as the only man opposing that Constitution, and I ask the unanimous con- sent of this house to withdraw my vote of No and vole Aye. The President: If there be no objection, the gentleman will be allowed to change his vote. Mr. J. K. Toole of Lewis & Clarke: I think it would be entirely fit- ting to close the proceedings of this convention with "The Star Spangled Banner", and I know, the President of this convention can sing that song admirably, and I move that he be requested to sing it and the con- vention join in the chorus. The motion was seconded. The chair put the question on the said motion, and the same was declared carried. Tlie convention then sang the "Star Spangled Banner", the mem- bers rising to their feet. Mr. Warren of Silver Bow: Mr. President, if all the members have signed the constitution and there is no further business before the con- vention, I move the convention adjourn sine die. The motion was seconded. The President: It is moved and seconded that the Constitutional Convention of the State of Montana do now adjourn sine die. Those in favor of the motion will say Aye, those opposed No. The motion was declared carried. The President: The Chair will present the gavel and the pen used by the members in signing the constitution, to the Historical Society of Montana. At three o'clock and thirty five minutes in the afternoon of Saturday, August 17th. 1889, the Constitutional Convention of the State of Montana stood adjourned sine die. ^"•^ PETER BREEX H. !•:. CLOWES, (■hai)lain WILLIAM PARBERRY JOIIX C. ROBINSON JOHN E. GAYLORD WILLIAM DYER ANDREW J. BTRNS PERSONAL RECORD INDEX I'age AIKEX, E. D. Favors Bickfnrtl ameiidiiient to See. i. ])ro|iosition 14 — woman -suffrage.... 458 Bia\:FORD. W. JI. Accepts substitute offered by Marion to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage.... 353-4 Argues for open elections 98 Desires to refer grand jury question to Judiciary Committee 102 Discusses and supports liis substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage. .347-50 Does not favor amendment by Joy to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — woman suffrage '.. ." 369 Favors Conrad amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — Revenue and Taxa- tion 475 Favors Goddard amendment to strike out Sec. 18, proposition 10 — Reports of Executive Departments 435 Favors Watson amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — ^Laws allowing women to vote 405-6 PXuther supports liis substitute to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suffrage 371 Xominates Alexander Scrgeant-at-Arms 15 Xominates Jos. K. Toole as Temporary Chainiian 12 (Iffers an Amendment to Resolution S. relating to School Lands 218 Offers amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 1-1 — suffrage 451 ■ Offers resolution for adding clerks and pages 23 Offers substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 330 On Constitutional amendment 578 On District Court terms 905 On criticisms by Helena Journal 739-41 On Helena Journal scandal.. 802-3 On location of Capital 778-779 Offers proposition on public lands 629 On public lands 830,832 On public water 89C On sale of school lands 591-2 On State Institutions 870 On State Institutions ...861-62 Opposes Herslitield amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 10 — ^Power of Board of Examiners and Governor 437 Submits Report on Preamble 64 Submits Report of Committee on Preamble 47 Supports amendment offered by Dr. Parberry for See. 13, proposition 26-^ Judicial Districts ." ! 287-288 Supports Committee Report on Preamble 97 Supports private property confiscation 121-22 Supports reformation of criminals 126 BI^\.KE. CHIEF JUSTICE Swore in members 16 BRAZELTON. J. F. Excused 487 Excused 487 Excused '.. 393 Opposed Convict Labor Section 402 BREEN. PETER Favors Burleigh substitute for Sec. 2. proposition 14 — woman suffrage 366-7 Offers amendment to See. 2. proposition IS, Seat of Government 411-12 On corporation liabilitv 709-10 Opposes private armed forces 130 Reports proposition 2 on convict labor 170 Reports proposition 3 on contract labor 176 Repoi-ts on proposition 6 177 Reports proposition 7 on Chinese labor 176-7 ii I'KHSO.XAL liKColtl) IXDEX IKKKX. I'ETKR— Cc.iitimu'il l'a>,'e Ke|)()its Resolution 7 on blacklisting "170 Submits Report on bureau of lalior eonvict contract labor (i") Submits Report on child labor and eight-liour law 05-66 Submits Report on Chinese labor, also importation of labor and black- listing 65 Supports Convict Labor Section 202-3 Supports Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — sufl'rage 338-9 Supports original provision on child labor _ 210 BROWNE, C. G. Committee on City, County and I'owii Organization, reports on jictition from citizens of Glasgow, Dawson County, against fixing limit of three million of assessable property for creation of new counties 383 Excused " 393 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 18 — Seat of Government 411-412 Offers amendment to See. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers.... 44(i Offers amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 21 — relating to County Attorney 320 Offers resolution on general elections _, 90 Offers resolution on pay of State officers 70 Reports on Resolution 0, by Goddard 274 Reports on Proposition 7, by Joy 274 Reports on Resolution 9, by Kennedy _ 73 Reports on Resolution 14. new counties 133 Reports on Resolution 18. liy Buford .. 74 Sent up report on resolution pertaining to City, County and Town Organi- zations— article on municii)al corporations and officers 272-4 BUFORD, S. R. Offers resolution on succession in public office __ UG BULLAED, W. JI. Excused _ 487, 418. 271, 35. 30 Supports Dixon anieudmcnt on convict labor 204 BURNS, A. F. Excused 285 BURNS, A. J. Offers resolution on mining 275 On irrigation water rates and taxes... 557 BUHNS T?) Objects to longhand transcript 57-58 Offers proposition on irrigation '. 61 BURLEIGH, W. A. Denounces grand .jury system 101 Discusses Sec. 1, proposition 27. Revenue and Taxation 409-70 Discusses his amendment to Sec. 2, ])roposition 14 — suffrage 452 Discusses his amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 10 — extra sessions 447 Discusses See. 13 — Bill of Riglits 253 Discusses Middleton amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 21, relating to County Attorney 318-9 Favors original for Sec. 8, proposition 10 — power of governor 430 Favors amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 21^ — -persons eligible to judge of District Court 315-0 Favors original Sec. 18. proposition 10 — reports of executive departments.. 435 Favors striking out Middleton motion to sub-division of Sec. 2, proposi- tion 14 — per.sons convicted of crime not allowed to vote 361-2 Makes remarks on Collins amendment to Sec. 29, jiroposition 20 — salary of Justices and Judges 297 Moves the adoption of See. 17, as amended — deposition of witnesses 262 Moves to amend suggestion by Warren to Sec. 2, proposition 18 — Seat of Government 411-412 Moves cluinge of phraseology in Rule 42 30 Moves to fill vacancy of Assistant Chief Clerk 77 Moves to increase number of Committee on Apportionment and Represen- tation _ 27 Moves to strike out words in Sec. 9 — ^Declaration of Rights 251 PERSONAL HECUHD I.NDEX iii I'.lRLKKiH. W. A— Continual Pago Moved to strike out Sec. 24, Law for punishment of ciime^Bill of Rights 268 Nomination of Eaton (2nd) 13 Objects to Committee on Credentials IT Objects to proposition 21 — Judicial power 218 Offers amendment to convict labor section 200 Offers amendment to Sec. 1. proposition 11 — article on labor 240 Offers substitute for Sec. 3. proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 474 Offers amendment to Sec. S, proposition 14 — suffrage — wlio not allowed to vote , 400 Offers an amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — passing of laws. by Legislature 403 Offers amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 10 — extraordinary sessions 447 Offers amendment to See. 11, proposition 10 — bills passed by legislature.... 44."> Offers amendment to Sec. 20, proposition 10 — office of State Examiner 440 Offers and supports his amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 20 — Salary Justices and Judges 304 o Offers amendment to Sec. 30— Bill of Kights 147 Offers amendment to See. 36, proposition 26 — Trial Judge 30S Offers amendment to Sec. 37. proposition 20 — Judges' forfeiture of office.... 30S Offers resolution allowing territorial officers, members Constitutional Con- vention 18S4 and Supreme Court .Judges the floor 32 Offers resolution on County indebtedness 138 Offers resolution for Committee on Irrigation _ 33 Oft"ers resolution limiting five minutes to each member for debate in Com- mittee of Whole 419 On County Committee Boards 668-9 On Constitutional amendment 578 On Constitutional amendment 648 On County Superintendent of Schools .'. 692 On corporation liability 704-5 On corporation liability 712 On deposition of witnesses 164-5 On deposition of witnesses 161 On effective dates for laws ._, : 607 On election and terms of County office 687-8 On establisliment of new coimties 663-4 On fees. District Court Clerks 906, 7, 9 On irrigation water rights and taxes 564-6 On legislative oath of office 536-7 On legislative apportionment; _ 598 On limiting debates 489 On location of capital 789,736-38 On mining claim taxation .;_ 496 On passage of legislation 619-20 On propertv rights of women 585-6, 587 On public water , 900 On sale of public lands (school) 846-7, 850 On sale of public land (school) 844 On State Examiner 613 On school lands 521 On State Institutions 863, 866-7 On taxation limitation 492 On taxinj; movable property. Indian reservations 924, 926 On taxation of movable property 933 On term of County officers 885 On water tax question 495,501,505-506 On questionable votes in Convention 882-3 Ojjposes amendment to Sec. 9. proposition 21 — ^judicial power „ 220-21 Opposes amendment to Sec. I.t — criminal defense 158 Opposes amendment to Sec. 1.5 — criminal defense 159 Opposes Clark amendment for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 354 Opposes Collins amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 443 Opposes Goddard amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 425 Opposes Hartman 2nd division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 391-92. 335 iv PEHSO.NAL RECORD INDEX I'lRLEKiH, W. A— ( ontimied Page Opposes Herslifield amend iiieiit to Sec. 19, proposition 10 — duty of Board of Examiners and (iovernor — Makes motion to lay amendments to Sec. in on table or indefinitely postpone same 43!» Opposes Herslifield amendment on militia 194 Opposes Labor Bureau 197-8 Opposes ^Marshall amendment to .See. 2. proposition 27 — Revenue and Tax- ation 484 Opposes to recommit proposition 21 on Judiciary to Judiciary Committee and makes amendment to same 328 On railroad passes ;. 584 On railroad passes to public officers ^ 543-4 On railroad passes to State officers 539-40 Opposes substitute for resolution 7, relating to Chief Stenographer 234 Opposes substitute for Sec. 17, Bill of Rights 257-8 Opposes Sec. 1, jnoposition 27, Revenue and Taxation, moves to amend See, 1, proposition 27 468 Opposes Warren amendment to Sec, 1, proposition 27, Revenue and Taxa- tion 482 Opposes Warren amendment to Sec, 10, proposition 14, suffrage — Passing of laws by Legislature 402-403 Questions Dixon on Grand Jury question 109-110 Recpiests additional time for Committee work 77 Requests copies of Rules for members 25 Requests reading rule on reconsideration 30 Supports his amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 18 — Seat of Government..413-414 Supports amendment to Sec, 13, proposition 21 — .Judicial power 226-7 Supports amendment to proposition 21, Sec. 13 — Judicial power 224 Supports Collins amendment to See. 13, proposition 26 — Judicial Districts..286-87 Supports increase in all committees 28 Supports his motion to increase committees on apportionment and repre- sentation 27 Supports his substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suffrage 372-3 Supports the Woman Suffrage section of Biekford's in his substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage : 240-1 Suggests that Chief Stenogi'apher be given assistants 36 Suggests members release per diem to cover expenses 38 Suggests rearrangement of working hours for Convention 50 Withdraws his amendment to Sec, 1, proposition 27 — Revenue and Taxa- tion 470 \Aithdraws his amendment to Sec, 8, proposition 14 — ^who not allowed to vote 400 Withdraws amendment on Rule 42 30 CALLAWAY, J, E. Asks for report on woman's suffrage 841 Discusses amendments offered to Sec. 2, proposition 14^suifrage (woman's) 364 Discusses his amendment to Sec. 8, proposition 10 — power of Governor 431 Favors Collins amendment to Sec. 20, proposition 26 — salarv of .Tustices and Judges ! 301-2 Favors recommitting proposition 21 on Judiciary to Judiciary Committee.... 329 Favors striking out Sec. 17 — deposition of witnesses 259-60 Objects to Committee of Credentials 17 Offers amendment to new section of proposition 21 — divorces 325 Offers amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 428 Offers amendment to Sec, 8. proposition 10 — power of Governor 431 Offers resolution on free passes 48 Offers resolution on woman's suffrage 490 Offers substitute for Preamble 249 On Constitutional amendment 654 On hall and State office holders 576 On irrigation water rights and taxes 567 On location of capital ■. 826-7 On Mexican ores 673 On railroad passes to public officers ^ 542-3 On railroad passes to State officers 539 On pul)lic lands (school) 835 On sale of public lands (school) 840, 851 On State boundaries 916 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX v ( Al.I.AWAV. -1. !•:.— Continued Page Opposes amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 21 — Judicial power 227-8 t>I)pose.s amendment to Sec. 17, deposition of witnesses 259-00 .Opposes BicUford amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 452-4r):3 Opposes Hartnian amendment to See. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 343-4 Opposes Knowles militia amendment 191 Opposes Marion amendment to See. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 357 Reports for Committee on Boundaries 75 Reports on Preamble and Bill of Rights 177-8 Reports on public lands 240 Reports on resolution 8 (public lands) 75 Reports on Sec. 10, Bill of Rights 181 Supports substitute for resolution 7, relating to Chief Stenographer 237-8 Supports amenduient to Sec. 18, Bill of Rights — person testifying against himself 203 Withdraws report on Bill of Rights for correction 170 CARDWELL, EDWARD Supports amendment of Parben-y to Sec. 13, proposition 26 — Judicial district 294 CARPENTER, B. P. Discusses amendment of Collins to See. 29, proposition 26 — Salary of Jus- tices and Judges : 296-97 Discusses his substitute for Sees. 12, 13, 14, 15, proposition 14 — ^Laws on suffrage ; .-. 408 Favors Hartnian 2nd division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 389 Favors Watson amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 405,406 llhistrates his substitute for Sec. 17, Bill of Rights 259 Jloves to insert in line 5, Sec. 18 — person testifying against himself — Bill of Rights 262 Jloved to strike out portion of Sec. 24 — law for punishment of crime — Bill of Rights 208 Moves to strike out line 4. Sec. 9, Bill of Rights 252 Moves to strike out part of second line. Sec. 9 — Bill of Rights 251 Objects to afternoon sessions 78 Objects to Burleigh amendment to Sec. 8, proposition 14, suffrage — who not allowed to vote 400 Objects to Committee of Credentials 17 Objects to longhand transcript 56 Offers additional Section Xo. 30. proposition 26, trial of impeachments 308-9 Offers amendment to private property tax for corporate debt 514 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 449 Offers amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 428 Offers substitute for Sec. 8, proposition 10 — power of Governor. Carpenter discusses his substitute 429 Offers amendment to Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — ■ suffrage 392 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 399-400 Offers amendment to amend Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 406 Offers amendment to Sec. 15— Bill of Rights 254 Offers amendment to Sec. 17— Bill of Rights 254-5 Offers and supports amendment to grand jury question '. 117 Offers amendment to Pi-eamble 94, 96 Offers amendment to section on franchises 119 Offers resolution regarding Sec. 2, proposition 11 — article on labor 242 Offers substitute for Sees. 12, 13, 14, 15 of proposition 14 — laws on suffrage 407 On Constitutional amendment 652-3 On date of legislative meeting 604 On deposition of witnesses 163 On election and term of County officers 688-0 On interpretation of Enabling Act 888 On legislative representation 651-2 On location of capital ....„ 766, 78, 770 On Mexican ores 672 On sale of public lands (school) ; 847-8 On taxation of movable property 933-4 vi PERSONAL RECORD INDEX CARPEXTEK. B. 1'.— Contimu-il V:\i;o Opposes Collins resolution on pay of Chief Stenographer 3!t-40 Opposes Collins amendment to See. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Judges and Justices 302-3 Opposes Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 344 Opposes limiting property rights of women ,\ 575 Opposes Toole amendment to subdivision 2, Sec. 2, proposition 14 — persons convicted of crime not allowed ,to vote ,303 Opposes Toole substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 398 Reports on proposition 11, article on liibor 238 Sent up amendment to Sec. 29, projiosition 26 — mileage of .Justices and Judges .: : 304 Suggests leaving grand jury question to Legislature 117-8 Suggests method of action in seating members 23 Supports amendment t-o Sec. 17, Bill of Right-s. 254-5 Supports movement to strike out part of second line. Sec. 9 — Bill of Rights \ i 251-2 Supports resolution to Sec. 2, proposition 11, article on labor _.. 242 Withdraws Sec. 39. proposition 20, trial and impeachment 309 CAUBY, MILTON Excused 329 CHADWIClv Letter on name for State _ 174-0 CHESSMAN, W. A. Calls for division of question Chief Stenographer pay 41 Offers amendment to tax levy section 517 Opposes Knowles militia amendment 190 On sale of public land (school) . 845 Seconds motion to close nomination 14 CLARK, W. A. Desires to abolish the grand Jury system 100 Discusses his amendment to Hartman amendment for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 392 Discusses his amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 20 — Judicial Districts 293-4 Favors Burleigh substitute to Sec, 2, proposition 14 — woman suffrage 373-4 Favors Goddard amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 425 Favors Hershfield amendment to Sec. 19. proposition 10 — duty of Board of Examiners and Governor : 438 Favors Middlcton motion to strike out sub-division 2 of Sec. 2, proposition 14 — persons convicted of crime not allowed to vote _ 300-01 Favors original for Sec, 8, proposition 10 — power of Governor 430-31 Makes closing speech 971-72 jMoved to allow press representative on floor 16 Mo\'ed to strike out Sec, 9, proposition 1-t — suffrage — power of Legislature 400 Nominated Todd as temporary Chief Clerk 15 Seconds nomination of Toole » 13 Offers amendment to amendment offered by Hartman to See. 2, proposi- tion 14 — suffrage 392 Offers amendment to Bickford's substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 351 Offers amendment to Hershfield amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 10 — duty of Board of Examiners 430 Offers amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 1-4 — suffrage — passing of laws by Legislature 400i-401 Offers amendment to Sec. 20, proposition 10 — office of State Examiner 440 Offers substitute for pending amendment for Sec, 3, proposition 26— Judicial Districts 291-2 Offers substitute to Sees. 13, 14— irrigation 1.50 On County Superintendent of Schools 693 On corporation liability , 702 On cor|ioration elections and regulations 713 On effective dates for laws 607 On length of Legislative session 003 On location of capital 753-6 Oil railroad passes to public officers 546-7 PERSONAL RECORD I.NDEX vii CLARK, W. A.— Contiuued Page On school lands 528 Opposes amendment to proposition 2L Sec. 13 — ^judicial power 22o Opposes amendment to Sec. 1 — militia 168 Opposes amendment of gentlemen from Cascade to Sec 13, proposition 20 — Judicial districts ^. 283,284 Opposes Burleigh substitute for Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion— Favors original report of committee on Sec. 3 475-476 Ojiposes Collins amendment to Sec. 29. proposition 20 — salary of -Justices and Judges 302 Opposes Collins amendment to Sec 29, proposition 26 — salary of Justices and .Judges _ -f"^ Opposes grand jury system 11.5-116 Opposes Hartman" ariiendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage — Favors main proposition for Sec. 2 346-7 Opposes proposition 15 — Bureau of Agriculture 210 Opposes Toole substitute for Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 398 Opposes AVliitehall amendment to Labor Bureau 108 Refuses arguments for grand jury system 101-2 Submits amendment to Bill of Rights 99-1^00 Supports foreign property owners 127-8 Supports- his amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 353 Supports his substitute on irrigation 156 Supports Luce substitute Sec. 30— Bill of Rights 140 Takes his chair and thanks Convention 21 COLLINS. T. E. Debate on Sec. 13, pioposition 26 — Judicial district '. 276 Explains Stenographer expenses 42 Explains that longhand writers to be paid by Stenogiapher. 42 Favors Burleigh substitute for See. 2. proposition 14 — woman suffrage 368-69 Favors Sec. 1, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation _ 470 Hakes remarks on See. 29. proposition 26 — salary of Justices and Judges.... 303 Moved amendment to recommitting proposition 21 — Judiciary — to Judiciary Committee 326 iloved that amendment to Sec. 17. deposition of witnesses, be adopted.... 262 Moves to refer pay question to Committee 43 Moves to have longhand transcript of proceedings : ; 36 Moves to add a Clerk to Committee on Finance 33 iloves to increase Committee on County, City and Town Government 27 Moves postponement of election of e.xtra offleei-s 25 Moves exceptions be made in choosing seats _. 23 Xominates subordinate officers by a resolution 21 Objects and asks that Convention be sworn in 15 Objects to printing minority reports 68 Objects to incorporation in Constitution of legislation... 120 Offers amendment to farm tax section 491 Offers amendment to Sec. 1, proposition 10 — executive department 445 Offers and supports amendment to Sec. 1, proposition 11 — article on labor 239 Offers amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 462 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, division 1, proposition 14 — suffrage 359 Offers amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of officers. Collins supports Tiis amendment 442 Offers amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 404 Offers a Section Xo. 13, proposition 14 — persons receiving highest niunber of votes ; 408-409 Offers amendment to Sec. 23. .Jury System Bill of Rights 267 Offers amendment to Sec. 29. proposition 20 — salary of Justices and Judges 296 Offers amendment to proposition 21. Sec. 13 — judicial power, 223 Offers amendment to proposition 21. Sec. 12 — judicial power. 222 Offers amendment to proposition 21 — judicial power 219 Offers resolution on printing of Constitution 948 Offers resolution on pay of Chief Stenographer 38 Offers and supports amendment to Sec. 9, proposition 21 — judicial power.... 220 On County Commissioner Boards 668 On corporation elections and regulations 723-4 On election and term of County officers 689 On establishment of new Counties 660 On fees District Court CTerk 908 On irrigation water rights and taxes 565-67 viii I'EHSUNAL ItECUKI) I.NDEX C OI.IJNS, T. K.— CoiitiMiic'il I'jigc On interpretation of Enabling; Act 888 On legislative oath of office 535 On location of capital '. 787-88 On Jlexican ores 674-5 On per diem of Legislators 601 On parliamentary order 172-3 On passage of legislation _ 620 On public lands (school) .' 837-8 ( )n i>nblic water 890-7, 900-1 On representation 938 On sale of public land (school) 845-0 On State institutions ^ S59 On tax levy section 518 On water tax question 506, 507, 508, 509 Opposes Burleigh amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — Passing of laws by Legislature 403-404 Opposes Conrad amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation. Further discusses amendment 477-478 Opposes Conrad amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion : 473 Opposes grand jury system ■ 113-114 Opposes Jlaginnis amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 450 Remarks on his amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 20 — salary of Justices and Judges 298 Reports on finance 642-3 Reports on resolution 15. license taxes 179 Reports on resolution 20. li<|Uor dealers 170 Reiiorts on resohition 21, prohibiting gambling 179 Reports on resolution 25, County indebtedness 179-80 Requests special Clerk for Finance Committee 45 Supports amendment to Sec. 15 — criminal defense 158 Supports his amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vot€ 404-405 Supports amendment to proposition 21, See. 13 — judicial power 223 Supports amendment of Middleton to Sec. 19. proposition 21, relating to County Attorney 319 Supports Burleigh amendment to Sec. 20, proposition 26 — salary of judges 305 Supports increase in Committee on Government 29 Supports Maginnis amendment to Preamble 94 Supports proposition 21 — judicial power 219 Supports report of Committee on Rules 26 Supports request for special Clerk 46 Suggests seven as number 18 Suggests a Committe of Credentials 16 Withdraws amendment to proposition 21 — judicial power 223 Withdraws motion for Finance Clerk 34 CONRAD, C. E. Discusses his amendment to Sec. 3. proposition 27 — revenue and taxation.... 474 Excused '. ._. 270 Gives reasons for offering amendment to Sec. 25 — rights of foreign born ■ persons— Bill of Rights 209-70 Offers additional section to be Sec. 20, proposition 10 — office of State Examiner 440 Offers amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation. Dis- cusses his amendment , 472 Offers amendment to Sec. 25 — rights of foreign bom persons — Bill of Rights 269 Offers amendment to Sec. 25 — rights of persons of foreign birth — Bill of Rights 208 Offers resolution on State Examiner 66 Offers report of Printing Committee 51 Offers resolution on new Counties : : 60 On establishment of new Counties ..; 661 On public lands (school) 838 On sale of public land (school) 851,844 Opposes Burleigh amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion 474 Reports resolution 8 and propositions 10, 11, 13, 14 and 15 137-38 Reports on propositions 14, 23 and 24, having been correctly printed 383 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX ix CO.VRAD, C. E.— Coiitiniu'd Page Reports on propositions IS. 10. 21. 22 184 Reports on proposition 17 177 Reports from Committee on Printing _ 65 Sent up substitute for amendment to proposition 21 — divorces 326 Submits report on rules and order 65 Submits report on propositions 1 and 2 65 Withdraws his motion to liave a Sec. 20, proposition 10 — office of State Examiner 440 CRAVEN, A. J. Moved to amend Sec. 23. jury system — Bill of Rights 264 Moves separate election for each subordinate officer 22 Offers amen^ent to See. 29, proposition 21 — salaries of Justices and Judges 322 On interest oti the public debt 957-8 On Mexican ores 67.') On railroad passes '. 593-94 On senatorial representation 635-6 On school lands 523-5 Opposes amendment to Sec. 1 — militia 168 Opposes Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 341 Opposes \'\'atson amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 407 Suggests consolidation of labor and agriculture bureau 198 Supports Sec. 30— Bill of Rights 141 COOPER, WALTER Offers amendment to proposition 21. Sec. 11 — jtiilicial powiT 221 On fires on State lands _ •">-!S On irrigation water rates and taxes _ .J.iU-" On public w.ater 89fi On representation 937-8 On taxation of mining claims 494 On water tax question 497,498 Reports on proposition 14, rights of suffrage — Committee of the Whole 410 Withdraws amendment to proposition 21 — judicial power 222 COURTNEY, T. F. Objects to readins of protest from Dawson Countv against Conrad resolu- tion .■ ;: ! 272 On fires on State lands 537 On representation 944-5 On railroad passes to public officers 547-8 Opposes Burleigh substitute for Sec. 2. proposition 14 — woman suffrage.... 37'! Opposes Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 332-3 Opposes private armed forces 129 Opposes striking out of Sec. 2, proposition 11 — article on labor 241 Opposes ^^■arren amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — passing of laws by Legislature 401 Supports convict labor 205 Supports Sec. 5. payment of employees 213 Supports substitute' Sec. 30— Bill of Rights 142 DIXON, W. W. Accepts Maginnis amendment to his amendment to Sec. 25, rights of foreign born persons — Bill nf Rights 270 Amendment Committee of five on order of business 24 Diseus.ses substitute for convict labor 200 Favors having proposition 21, on judiciaries, recommitted to Judiciary Committee 328 Favors original for Sec. 8, proposition 10 — power of Governor 430 Favors to recommit proposition 21 to Judiciary Committee 326 Introduces substitute for the Preamble 247 Objects to amendment bv Winston to See. 8, proposition 21, relating to Chief Justice ". 312 Offers amendment to rule for adoption of resolutions 29 Offers amendment to Preamble 06 Offers amendment to convict labor section 203 Offers amendment to water tax section 501 Offers amendment to Sec. 16 — deposition of witnesses 166 X PERSONAL RECORD INDEX DJXUN, \\ . \V. — Continued I'ago Offers amendment to Sec. 18 — Bill of Rights — person testifying; against himself 262 Offers amendment to Sec. 24 — law for punishment of crime — Bill of Rights 2GS Offers amendment to Sec. 2.5 — rights of foreign born persons — Bill of Rights 270 Offers resolution assigning permanent seat to members 23 Offers resolution adopting Constitution of United States 22 Offers substitute for Preamble 9.3 Offers substitute for Sec. 22— Bill of Rights 125 Offers substitute for See. 24 — Bill of Rights 12(i On deposition of witnesses 100 On irrigation water rights and taxes , _.. .501-63 On location of capital 744-P On Mexican ores 673 On military reservations ^P^- *'^- On State institutions 860 Opposes amendment for Sec. 13, proposition 20 — judicial districts 281-82 Opposes striking out part of second line, See. 9 — ^Bill of Rights..., 251 Reports on Indian reservations (i27 Reports on judicial departments 150-51 Reports on military reservations 627 Reports on proposition 21 — article on judicial departments 377-S Reports on resolution 10 (policing) 74 Reports on resolution by Browne of Choteau, relating to State, District or Coimty officers 272-3 Submits amendment to grand jury question 100 Supports foreign property owners 127 Supports grand jury system - 117. 107, lOS DURFEE, D. M. Excused 417 On per diem of Legislators 603 Sent up petition of citizens of Deer Lodge County relative to Sunday law 271 Supports amendment to Sec. 15— criminal defense 158 DYER, \VILLIA:M Excused -118 EATON, GEORGE O. Excused 303 Moves adjournment 25 Moves ballot for President 20 Moves to adjourn 18 Moved unanimous vote for Toole I'i Nominated IIer.slificld President '. :.'.! 20 Offers amendment to I'renmlile 96, 03 Offers proposition on education ._ 00 Offers proposition on hibor 60 Offers report of Military Affairs Committee.... 51 Offers resolution on pay of Convention employees ; 71 On election and term of County office 080 On location of capital jOl On public water SU,-98 Opposes Blaekwell address question "9 Opposes grand jury system 104 Opposes rate of pay of Stenographer , -*2 tjuestions Robinson militia amendment 188 Reports on proposition 1!) 017 Requests equitable distribution of clerks •'•'' Suggests designation of necessary officers .-. 10 Supports his re.solution on extra clerks I'i FIELDS, WILLIAM T. Denounces private armed forces 129 Excused ^}^ Oflcred a scat in (.'onvention , 31 Offers H'solution on police service 61 Offers resolution on blacklisting CI Offers substitute Sec. 30~Bill of Rights 139 Offers Sec. 30 In I'.ill of Rights 129 PERSONAL HECORl) INDEX xi J^'IEI-DS, WILLIAM T.— Contimi.'d I'agf Ou corporation elections and regulations ii;!, 721 On corporation liability '1- On senatorial representation '•" Supports convict labor section -"1 Supports his substitute Sec. 30— Bill of Rights : ...I-IO-T, 140 GAYLORD, J. E. Excused _ _ - 31. 03, 07. IS;!, 444 OIBSOX, PARIS Excused 1:5:2,304 On irrigation water and ta.xes _ •'''•! On location of capital 752-o On water tax question 503 GILLETTE, W. C. Excused '*' GODDARD, 0. F. Discusses his amendment to strike out See. 18. jiropositiou 10— reports of executive departments ''3' Excused - 212,183 Moves nomination be closed - '■* iloved to strike out Sec. 14, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 480 Objects to opening Convention floor to visitors 80 Offers amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive officers. .424-42.3 Offers amendment to strike out Sec. 18. proposition 10— reports of execu- tive departments '^^'^ Offered amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 20— salary of Justices and Judges 200 Offers amendment to resolution on suffrage I'O Offers resolution in relation to County officers 3.. On deposition of witnesses : 102-103 On election and terms of county officf 08.5-8Ti On establishment of new counties , 002-3 On fees District Court Clerks ; ,-. {'07 On fires on State lands 537-38 On location of capital : 792-3 On per diem of Legislators - 'jO'_ On property rights of women — 5^'' On taxing movable property ^"26" On water tax question .511-51 Opposes amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 450 Opposes amendment to Sec. 23. Bill of Rights — jiuy system 205 Opposes Collins amendment to Sec. 20, proposition 20 — salary of Justices and fudges 300 Opposes amendment of Collins to Sec. 13, proposition 26— judicial districts..284-o Opposes 2nd division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14, by Hartman -suffrage : '. 387-S Opposes Warren amendment to See. 1, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- 482 ?il-^ tion Requests report on County officers 71 Seconds nomination of Eaton .— - 13 Supports his amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers '^2:) Withdraws his amendment to Sec, 13, proposition 20 — judicial districts.... 288 GRAVES, F. L. Excused 1^3 HAiBIOND, R. E. Excused , 1^3 Offers amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers ... 446 Offers resolution on gambling "•' liARTMAX, CHARLES S. Accepts amendment offered by Clark to his substitute for Sec, 2, proposi- tion 14 — suffrage 302 Discusses Toole substitute for Sec, 2, as amended, proposition 14 — suffrage 39(i Excused 410,107.02-03 xii PERSONAL RECORD IXDEX llAKT.MAX. CtLXKLES S.— Continiu'il I';!-,- Moved to amend the amendment to See. 23, jury system — Hill cjf Kiglits.... 2(14 Moves to amend by laying Sec. 3, proposition 11. conviet labor, on table.... 24') Moves to strike ont all Sec. 18, after "offense," on second line — Bill of Rights — person testifying against himself 2(j;! Objects .to time limit on introduction of bills to Legislature 00(1 Offers amendment to Sec. 1. proposition 27 — revenue and taxation. Sup- ports his amendment 40!) Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 330 Offers substitute for See. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 385 Offers amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 472 Offers amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive ofticers... 447 Offers amendment to Sec. 7, proposition 14 — who eligible to hold office — suffrage 400 Offers proposition on religious toleration 47 (Jffers substitute on taxation 567-68 On fees District Court Clerk 909 On irrigation of arid lands ?. 676-7 On water tax question 501-502 Opposes Conrad amendment to See. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 473 Opposes child labor 211 Opposes amendment proposition 21, Sec. 13 — judicial ]K)wer 223-4 Opposes amendment to Sec. 23, jury system — Bill of Rights 266 Opposes substitute for Sec. 13, proposition 26 — judicial districts 280-1 Proposition on Indian lands 47 Proposilion on public schools 47 Proposition on territory debts 47 Supports his amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 331-2 Supports his 2nd division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 388 HASKELL, HENRI J. Excused 132 Offers protest from Dawson County inhabitants against passage of Conrad resolution 272 On estimate of new counties 661-2 On representation 938-9 HFRSHFIELD, L. H. Amendments to 1 o'clock July 5th 16 Excused ! P»4 Favors Goddard amendment to strike out Sec. 18, proposition 10 — reports of executive departments 43.1 Moves postponement of report by Committee on Rules 25-26 Offers amendment to farm tax section 491 Offers amendment to Mayger amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 445 Offers Sec. 6 to militia proposition, withdraws amendment 193-4 Offers amendment to Sec. 9, proposition 10 — what inforniation Oovernor may get from each office 431 Offers amendment to Sec. 10, proiwsition 10 — duty of Board of Examiners 436 Offers amendment to Robinson amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 427 Offers resolution on Preamble 32 Of Committee on Jliscellaneoiis Subjects, reports on proposilion 25. by A. J. Burns, concerning establishment of mining bureau 3S4 Of Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. re])orts im i)etition of citizens of Deer Lodge County, relative to Sunday law... 383-84 On County indebtedness ; 892 On fees District Court Clerks 90li (In location of capital ' 8(1* On National and State office holders , ., 57(i On ])roperty rights of women '. .". 585 On religious tolerance ! 877 On sale of public lauds (school) '. 847.843 Opposes Burleigh amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 10 — extra sessions 447 Opposes Warren amendment to Sec. 1. proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion 482 Questions Robinson militia amendment ....^ 188 (^ucstives to amend Sees. S-i1, Article 1 — Declaration of Rights 251 Offer* amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Judges 305-6 Ofl'ers amendment to See. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers.... 427 Opposes amendment by Parberry to See. 13, proposition 26 — judicial dis- tricts. Also speaks further on same matter 288-90, 293 Supports Collins amendment to Sec. 29. proposition 26^salary of Justices and Judges 299 Supports his amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Judges of Supreme Court 305-6 KAY, MR. (Watchman) Resigned "'" KANOUSE, J. E. Excused 183 Moves to amend Sec. 9 — Bill of Rights 252-3 Moves to amend Sec. 9 — Declaration of Rights 251 Ofl'ers Sec. 15 to Bill of Rights 124 Offers substitute for Preamble '. _92 On interpretation of Enabling Act - SS7-8 On liability of railroads for damages ....■)87-8 On sale of public land (school) 842,845 On public water 895 Reports on legislative departments 956-7-8 Reports proposition 17 531 KEJSTNEDY, W. J. Moved that Sec. 3 be inserted for Sec. 2, proposition 11— article mi hiluir... 240 Offers resolution on creation of new counties 47 On county indebtedness 892 On school lands _ - 520 Seconds nomination of Eaton .T. 1-^ KNIPPENBERG, H. Excused _ - - :!1. 183. 3:)3. -144, 4S7 91 KNOWLES, HIRAM Agrees, the people establish Constitution Defines roads Sec. 13 — irrigation 150 Discusses child labor 210-11 Discusses Middleton amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 21. relating to County Attorney "'IS-O Favors Bickford auK'ndmcnl to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — wonuin sutt'rage 453, 454, 455, 456 Favors Burleigh amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 1-4 — suffrage — passing of laws by Legislature 403-404 Favors Conrad amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion 478. 474, 475 Favors Hartman 2nd division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 1-1 — suffrage 390 Favors snuill committees 28-29 I'avors 2nd division of substitute for See. 2, proposition 14, by Hartman — suffrage. Knowles furtlier supports same 386 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX xv KXOWl.ES, HIRAil— Continiiod T-age Offers aiiiendment to militia proposition 190 On corporation liability 708-9-10 On County indebtedness 892 On deposition of witnesses 160-1, 165-6 On district court terras 906 On effective dates for laws 607 On expiration of territory office ...917-8 On fees District Court Clerks 906-7 On irrigation water rates and taxes ^ .lo.'j-ti On irrigation 865 On limiting legislative power 596-597 On location of capital 746-51,771-72,793 On passage of legislation 620 On public water 898-^89!) On religious tolerance 877-8 On sale of public lands (school) .-. 847 On State institutions 862-3,867, 868-9 On State boundaries 917 On County Superintendent 692-3 On taxation of mining claims and railroad lands 493-494 On taxing movable property (Indian reservations) ...924-5 On term of office 57S On water tax question 498-499,509-511 Opposed amendment to Sec. 15, criminal defense 158-9 Opposed amendment to Sec. 1 — militia.. 167-68 Opposed to amendment to child labor 21i> Opposed amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 21 — ^.judicial power 22S-9 Opposes amendments to Sec. 19, proposition 10 — duty of IJoard of Exami- ners 437 Opposes Gorldard amendment to strike out Sec. 18, proposition 10 — reports of executive departments 435, 436 Opposes Hartman amcnduu'nt to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 341.335-6 Opposes Hartman amendment to Sec. 1, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion 469 Opposes Marshall amendment to See. 2, proposition 27 — reveniie and taxa- tion 486 Opposes Jfaginnis amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffra,,'!^ 44(1-4.50 Opposes llerriam substitute amendment to militia proposition 191-2 Opposes substitute for Sec. 17 — Bill of Rights 258-0 Opposes See. 18. as amended — Bill of Eights — person testifying against himself : ." 2(i3 Opposes Whitehall amendment to Sec. 8, proposition 14 — whcf not allowed to vote .466-467 Question Robinson militia amendment ISS Reports on schedule article. :.. 784-80 Scores members for narrowness 79 Seconds motion for Committee of Credentials 17 States tlie people and not Convention arc establishing Constitiition. . . 95 Supports longhand transcript •''7 Supports original Sec. 9, Bill of Rights.. 252 Supports private property confiscation 122-3 Supports refonnation of criminals . 125-li Supports substitute for Preamble 247-S Supports Toole amendment on irrigation 140 Sustains point on credentials 17 KOHRS. CONRAD Excused 183 Offers report of Agi'iculture Commitee ; 52 Reports on agriculture and commerce 75-76 Letter from Montana Society of Civil Engineers on irrigation presented. ...418-419 Liddell, Judge, administered oath to Kohrs 35 LOUD. C. H. Moves adoption report Committee on Rules _25 Offers amendment to tax levy section . 514 Offers amendment to Sec. 7. proposition 27. revenue and taxation 481 Offers amendment to Sec. 19. proposition 21, relating to County Attorney ....320 Offers resolution on railroad commission 76 xvi PERSONAL RECORD INDEX I.OUD, C. H.— ContiniuHl Page Ofl'ers resolution for ConniiitlcL' on Order of Businoss, one truni iMt-li dis- trict ; ^4 Ofl'ers substitute for Sees. 2-3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 470-471 Withdraws motion for Committee on Order of Business 24 LUCE, L. A. Excused 232,2(1 Favors Conrad amendment to See. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion 473-474 Moves to adjourn until July otli, 12 M. 10 Nominates Connolly as temporary Stenographer 16 Ofiers amendment to See. 2, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 472 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suffrage 461 Offers amendment to See. 4, jiroposition 10 — salary of executive officers.... 427 Otters amendment to Bureau of Labor section 190 Otters amendment to water tax section 496-497 Oii'ers resolution on irrigation 138-139 Offers resolution on licenses 60 Offers resolution on regulation of liquor industry 70 Offers resolution on prohibition of gambling 70 Offers substitute See. 30— Bill of Rights 140 Offers substitute section on railroad passes 572 On deposition of witnesses : 161-62 On District Court terms 905 On fees. District Court Clerk 910 On irrigation water rights and taxes 563-4 On legislative apjiortionment 598 On location of capital 732-34,768-9,773,792 On Mexican ores 6r2 On mining claim taxation 495-490 On public lands (school) ....;.r830, 832-3, 835-6 On public water 896 On sale of public land (school) 841-2,848-9,852 On school lands , 520-21 On term of County officers 885-80 On taxing movable property (Indian reservations'' 925-6 On taxation of movable property 934 On water tax question .503-505 Opposes amendment to Sec. 13. proposition 21 — judicial power 230 Points advantages of Credential Committee ■ 17 Presents resolution on school lands 47 Supports convict labor ". 205 Supports grand jury system 112-113 Supports private property confiscation 123-4 Supports his own substitute Sec. 30 — Bill of Rights 142 MAOINXIS, MARTIN Believes Older of Business and Rules under one head 24 Desires ruling on distribution of subject matter of Constitution 34 Discusses See. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers ; 425 Excused !"■'' Favors his amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage ,.450-451 Favors second division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14, by Hartman — suffrage 388-9 Holds that people and not Congress establish Constitution 91 Moves a return of congratulations to Washington and the Dakotas 19 Moves adjournment 30 Moved adoption of proiiosition I, Hill of Rights 270 Moves that Sec. .3, ])ro]iositiciM 11. eonviet labor, be referred to Committee on Revision and Phraseology .-. 245 Moves roll call for President ._. 20 Moves to strike out Sec. 12. fixing the qualifications of executive officers, pro[iosition 14 •*9i Moved that proposition 21 be adopted—judiciary 320 Objects to proceedings re. religion ...........93-94 Objects to Robinson militia amendment 18!) Objects to separate election for subordinate officers 22 Offers amendment to Carpenter amendment to See. 2, proposition 1-4 — suffrage 449 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX xvii m :MA(;IXXIS. MARTIX— Continued Page Offers amendment to Sec. -2, proiJosition 27 — revenue and taxation 487 Offers amendment to See. 4, proposition lU — salary of executive otticers..426-427 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition IS — seat of government 417 Offers amendment to Sec. 14 — Bill of Rights 124 Offers substitute for Sec. 17 — Bill of Rights 257 Offers amendment to Sec. 1"J, proposition 10 — duty of Board of Examiners 430 Offers Fields a vote to adopt the Constitution of the United States 31 Otters resolution on arid lands 63 Offers resolution on municipal corporations 274-5 (iff'ers amendment to Rules lOS On Board of Education 531 On Constitutional amendments 647-8-9, G53-4 On criticism by Helena Journal 740-1 On establishment of new Counties (160-61 On Indian reservations 927 On interest on the public debt _. 957 On irrigation water rates and taxes 358-01 On location of capital 729-32 On ordinances ; 921-22 On pa.~sage of legislation , 620 On railroad passes to public officers 540 On school lands 1 .526-7 On State institutions 807. 864 On water tax question 49S Opposes Burleigh amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suft"rage..,.369-72 Opposes Collins amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers. Favors original Sec. 4 442-443 Opposes Conrad amendment to Sec. 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion 472-473 Opposes Goddard amendment to strike out Sec. 18, propositioil 10 — reports from executive departments 435 Opposes Hartman amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 1-1 — suffrage 337-8 Opposes Joy amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suffrage 400-01 Opposes Marshall amendment to See. 2, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- • tion 4SG Opposes Reek amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of e.xecuti\e officers , 420 Opposes Winston amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 10 — bills passed by Legislature 434 Opposes private armed forces 130 Opposes to recommit proposition 21, judiciary, to Judiciary Committee 328 Points out tliat law determines officers of Convention 19 Present* resolution on military resolution .. 4SS Reports on proposition 21- article on judiciary 311 Requests division of Buford resolution on p\iblie office. . (ii! Seconds motion to strike out Sec. 17 — Bill of Rights 2."i7 Submits report on executive .• 04 Supports Collins resolution on pay of Chief Stenographer 40 SupiK)rts his amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 10 — power of Board of Examiners and Governor 43S Supports ilarion substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 352 Supports Marion amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage..... 356-7 Supports original See. 23, jury system — Bill of Rights 205 Supports previous resolution to Sec. 2, proposition 11 — convict labor 242-3 Supports printing of minority reports 70-71 Sup])orts private property confiscation '. ^ 123 .Supports rearrangement of hours 50 Supports reading of protest from Dawson County against Conrad resolu- tion 272 MARIOX. J. E. Excused -'''^-^ Moves See. (i to be stricken out — eight-hour day question 213 Offers amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 331 Offers amendment to Sec. 1. military affairs 167-8 Offers amendment to militia proposition 191 Ofl'ers substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 462 Supports his militia amendment !'■'- xviii PERSONAL RECORD INDEX Page MARSHALL, CHARLES S. Accepts amendment oU'eied by Carpenter to Sec. H, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 4011 Defends granil jury system 104-U Discusses his amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 27 — ^i-evenue and taxation..485-480 Discusses 2nd division of substitute for See. 2, proposition 14, by Hartman — suifrage 387 Discusses Hershfield amendment to See. 19, proposition 10 — power og Board of Examiners and Oovernor 4.38 Excused 393 Favors and supports his amendment to See. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote . 400 Favors Jlaginnis amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suflTrage 430 Otters amendment , on ])nblic lands (school) 834 Otters amendment to Sec. 1. proposition 10 — executive deiiailment 445 Oflfers amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 27 — revenue and taxation. Dis- cusses and supports his amendment , 483 Ofl'ers amendment to Sec. 10. proposition 14 — rights of suffrage 464 Offers amendment to Sec. 11. proposition 14 — rights of women at school election 4G4 Offers amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 405,400 On deiK>sition of witnesses 160 On location of capital ; j 269-70 On public lands (school) 838 On sale of school lands 590-91 On sale of public lands (school) 850-51 On school lands 526 Opposes confiscation of property 120 Opposes Sec. 18, Bill of- Rights — person testifying against himself 263 Proposition on public lands ". 628 JiIAYGER. WILLIAM . Discusses his amendment to See. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 404-405 Offers amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive offieers..442, 445 Offers amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — rights of sull'rage 465 Offers amendment to See. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 404 Offers amendment to Sec. 14, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 480 On tax exemption of mining claims 493 Presents name of iliss Merriman for Assistant Chief Clerk 77 Withdaws motion to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote, and he offers new amendment to same 400-407 McADOW, P. W. Excused 31 Otters additional section to inoposition 14, to be Sec. 13 — rights of suffrage 4(i5 Offers amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — rights of sutt'rage 464 Opposes Bickford substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — sutt'rage (woman's). .363-4 Supports extra Clerk (piestion ; 73 Supports substitute for Sec. 2. |)roposition 11. convict labor 243-4 JiUDDLETON, C. R. Defines "open" in open election i^jj Discusses convict labor : 207 Discusses why subdivision 2 of Sec. 2, proposition 14, persons convicted of crime not allowed to vote, be stricken out 300 Discusses Sec. 29, ])r<>positinn 20 — mileage for .lustiees and .Judges 304 Discusses Winston amendment to See. 8, projiosition 21, relating to Chief .Justice 313 Excused 4S7.+1S.410 Ex|)Iains meaning of his amendment to Sec. 30, proposition 26 — what Supreme or District .ludgi' not to accept 307 Favors auu>ndment ottered bv Parberrv for Sec. 13, proposition 2(V— .judicial districts ;. ;. ;..; 292 Fuither opposes amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 21 — person eligible to .fudge of District Court 316 Moves to adjourn I'' Moves corrcctiiin (pu minutes of third day 31 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX xix :\IIDDLETOX, C. R.— Continued . Page Moves that subdivision 2 of Sec. 2, proposition 14, sufl'iage. be stricken out :i(in Moved proposition 1 be referred to Piinting Committee "213 Moved propositions 2 and 13 be refen-ed to Engrossing and Enrolling Com- mittee 213 Objects to Committee of Credentials IG (Ibjects to increase in Committee on Uovernnient 27-28 Objects to printing minority reports 69 Objects to Kobinson militia amendment 189 Objects to section on railroad passes 574-n Offers amendment to Sec. 19. proposition 21, relating to County Attorney.. 318 Ofl'ers amendment to See. 29, jjroposition 26 — salary of Justices and .Judges 296 Oft'ers amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 21 — salaries of Justices and .Judges 320 Offers amendment to Sec. 30, proposition 2(i — what Supreme or District .Judge not to accept ,300-7 Offers amendment to Sec. 30, proposition 21 — what Judge Supreme Court and District Court not to accept 324 Offers resolution on mileage 36 Offers resolution on rules amendment 51 On Constitutional amendments ^. 649-.50 On corporation elections and regulations 723-4 On corporation liability 72.5 thi effective dates for laws 606-7 ' On fees. District Court Clerk 908-9 On irrigation of arid lands G78-9 On irrigation water riglits and ta.'ces 557-8 On length of legislative session 603-4 On legislative power to expel 605 On legislative apportionment 598, 600 On legislative oath of office 535-36 On location of capital 751-2 On National and State office: holders 576- On jiroperty rights of women 58G On public lands (school) 833 On railroad passes to public officers 540-42 On senatorial representation 629-30 On State Examiner 613 On State institutions , 86G On tax levy section 515-516 On taxation of movable property 932-3 Opposes amendment to amendment of Sec. 23, Bill of Rights — jury system 264 Opposes Clark amendment to substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 352 Opposes Collins amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Justices and Judges 299 t)pposes Collins resolution on pay of Chief Stenograplier 38-39 Opposes convict labor section 200-201 Op])oses Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 339-40 Opposes Warren amendment to Sec. 16, proposition 21 — person eligible to .Judge of District Court 315 Recalls resolution 7 on Stenographer pay 76 Recites evils of grand jury system 102-3 Re]>orts on resofutioii 7. relating to duties and compensation of Chief Stenographer 234 Requests postponement of 1-reamble vote 184 Seconds nomination of Clark. President 20 Seconds nomination of Toole 14 States mileage of members may be submitted 34 Suggests use of Rules of Old Convention 24 Supports extra Clerk fpiestion 72 .Supports his amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 21, relating to County Attorney '„, 318 Supports majority report on Stenographer pay 53-4 Supports substitute for resolution 7, relating to Cliief Stenographer 234-5 MITCHELL, SAJklUEL Excused .,...: '. 132 MUTH. WILLIAM iloves division of question on Stenographer pay 59 On introduction of ap])ropriation bills to I>egisiature 608 XX PERSOiNAL HECURD INDEX MYERS, ALFUK13 I'aj;.- On County iIulebtt■dne^s SII2 Excused I'i- Nominates \V. A. L'lark, Tresident "20 On irrigation water rates and taxes 552-4 On irrigation (public water) 89!) Otfers amendment to Sec. 18, proposition il, relating to District Clerk..,. 317 Offers resolution on jjersons holding office of profit under the United States and commissioned by President 275 On puljlic lands (school) 837-8 On qualitications of voters 9(>0 On sale of public lands (school; 850 On tax exemption of mining claims 492-403 On taxation of mining claims 494 Reports on State institutions 132 Supports Parberry amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 20 — judicial districts 294 PARRERRY, WILLIAM Cites Colorado Constitution on piivate property confiscation 121 Excused _ 29, 370 Offers new section to proposition 21 — divorces 324 Parberry supports his new section to proposition 21 — divorces 324 On location of capital 77!i On property rights of women 580-7 On railroad passes 593 On sale of public (school Hand 843 On school lands 523, 527-28 On State institutions 804 On water rights and ta.\ation 509 Opposes Robinson amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 21 — judicial distriets..314-l5 Opposes sub.stitutc of Collins for St'C. 13, proposition 20 — judicial disti-icts..279-80 Remarks on Collins amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 20 — salary of •Justices and Judges 300 Reports proposition 8, on irrigation 137 Reports on proposition 20 — irrigation 370 Reports on resolution by Maginnis. on arid lands 137 Reports on .Society of Civil Engineers' petition 488 PLUMB (of Kansas) On statesmanship . 824-2(i PO\^■ELL, MAJOR On Irrigation 820-2.i RAMSDELL, \V. R. Discusses Marshall amendment to See. 2, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion f^'> Favors Burleigli aiiicndnient to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suffrage 309 Favors Hartnuiu 2ud division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 39() Moves to anieiul substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14. by Hartman 380 On County indebtedness **"- On election and term of County officers ••88 On estimate of new counties "'•' On irrigation water rights and taxes o. 500-61 On legislative oath of office 536 On location of ca]iitnl "^S- On Mexican ores ••'■* On per diem of Legishitors 602 On sale of jniblic land (school) S41. 8."):! On school lands .):-5-0 ()i)pose9 ameiulment to Sec. 25, rights of foreign born persons — Bill of Rights 269-70 Opposes Burleigh auuiuiment to Sec. 11, proposition 10 — e.\tra sessions.... 44S Opposes private armed forces 131 Supports convict labor section , 209 Supports proposition of longhand transcript 5o-i> PERSONAL RECORD INDEX xxi Page KEA(;AX (of Texas) On irrigation, money „ 810-820 REEK, 0. J. Excused '' •' Favors amendment of Hartman to St-c. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 341 Offers amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 1.5 — salary of executive officers.... 425 Offers amendment to proposition !) — militia 252 Offers to amend Sec. !l, line 4 — Bill of Rights ..^.. 252 t)n State institutions 86/ -8, 859 Supports Clark amendment for substitute to See. 2, proposition 1.4— suffrage 353 RICKARD, J. E. Endorses Dixon's opposition to amendment for See. 13, proposition 26 — judicial districts -?_ Excused 1^^ Favors Bickford amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14— suffrage 451 Favors Burleigh substitute for Sec. 2. proposition 14 — woman's suffrage 364-5 Favors Hammond amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive officers '^*' Favors Hershfield amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 10 — power of Board of Examiners and Governor .-. -530 Moves to strike out Sec. 2, proposition 11, article on labor, and put in substitute -^1 Moved that Sec. 2. proposition 11. article on labor, be stricken out 241 Moves to open Convention with prayer IS Objects to additional Clerks -t'j Objects to Committee of Credentials _ _ 1" Objects to longhand transcript .38-59 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 18 — seat of government 411-412 Offers resolution on appropriations 60 On corporation elections and regulations ....713, 720, 722 On estimate of new counties 664 On location of capital 772, 788, 793, 727-28, 738-9 On public lands (school) _ 838 On school elections 1 529-30 On school lands 521-22 Opposes amendment of Middleton to Sec. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Justices and .Judges -"fi Opposes amendment to convict labor 204 Opposes Collins amendment to See. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Justices and .Judges -- 300 Opposes consideration of Sec. 30 — Bill of Rights 141 Opposes Collins amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officees. Favors original Sec. 4 'W3 Opposes Hershfield amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 427 Opposes Joy amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — woman suffrage 461 t)pposes Marshall amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- 484 tion Opposes Sec. 1, proposition 2i — revenue and taxation 408 Opposes Sec. .30— Bill of Rights 143 Opposes to recommit proposition 21. judiciary, to Judiciary Committee.... 327 Opposes whole scheme of longhand record 42 Presents Education Committee report 64 Questions Robinson militia amendment _ 188 Reports proposition 17. on public schools, school lands and funds 88-89 Supports amendment of .Mr. Parberry's to Sec. 13, proposition 20 — judicial districts -^■' Supports his amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 18 — seat of govemment....414, 415 Supports increase in Committee on Government 29 .Supports original Preamble 248 Supports postponing Preamble vote .'. 185 Supports printing of minority reports 70 Supports striking out Sec. 2, proposition 11 — article on labor 241 Supports substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 11 — article on labor 241-2 ROBIXSOX. J. C. Debates grand jury system 110- 112 xxii PERSONAL IlECOHD INDEX I-OBIXSOX, J. C— Continued Pagi- Excused 393 Kavors Toole substitute, as amended by Hartman and Clark, for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — sull'iage 3!ii Favors that proposition .21 be recojiimitted to Judiciary Committee — judi- ciary 320 Moved to amend Sec. 23, Jury system — Bill of Rights 260 Objects to amendment by Warren to Hec. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — passing of laws by I>egislatuve 400-401 Objects to amendment and also new section to proiMJsition 21 — divorces. ...325-20 Objects to amendment of Whiteliill to Sec. 10, proposition 21 — jjerson eligible to .Judge of District Court 317 Objects to introduction of Sec. 3!1, proposition 20 — atrial of impeachments.... 309 Objects to hiring of extra Clerks 72 Objects to longhand transcri])t of jjroeeedings 54-5 Objects to going into delit for Convention expenses 43-44 Objects to opening Convention lloor to visitors 80 Offers amendment to Sec. 4. projjosition 10 — salarj- of executive officers.... 427 Offers amendment to jjroposition 9 — militia 188 Offers amendment to Sec. 10— Bill of Rights 119 Offers amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — rights of suffrage. Robinson withdraws amendment 46.5- Offers amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 21 — judicial districts .'il4 Offers amendment to Sec. 13. proposition 20 — judicial districts. . 2114 Offers amendment to Sec. 15, — criminal defense 157-8 Ofl'ers amendment to Sec. 17 — criminal defense 1.17 Offers amendment to Sec. 18 — Bill of Rights — ^person testifying against himself 202 Offers projMJsition on water rights 533 Ofl'ers substitute section on railroad passes 584 On corporation liability ; 705-7 On election and term of County office..... 089', 087 On fires on State lands 538 On legislative apportionment 000 On limiting debates 489-90 On location of cajiital 789, 750-00 On per diem of Legislators 002 On railroad passes to public officers 548-50,1540 Opposed to amendment of Whiteliill to add See. 38 — affidavit of Judge of District or Supreme Court for salary 308 Opposes amendment to Sec. 13. proposition 21 — ^judicial power 225-t; Opposes Blackwell address ([uestion 79 Opposes Burleigh amendment to Sec. S, pro])osition 14 — suffrage — who not allowed to vote 400 Opposes Burleigli amendment to Sec. 1, ])roposition 27 — revenue an.d taxa- tion , 408 Ojjposes Collins resolution on Chief Stenographer 36-38 0])poses Marshall amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote 40ii Opposes Reek amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive officers 425-20 Opposes Sec. 1, proposition 11 — article on labor 240 Opposes Sec. 30— Bill of Rights 143-140 Opposes substitute for resolution 7, relating to Chief Stenogi'apher 235-30 Opposes 2nd division of substitute for See. 2, proposition 14. by Hartman — suffrage 387 Recites" inconsistency in criminal defense sections 100 Reports on ordirtances ii-7 Suggests revision of grand jury system 101 Supports amendment to Sec. 23. jury system — Bill of Rights 200-7 .Supports amendment of Collins to Sec. 29, proposition 20 — salary of Jus- tices and .Judges 297-98 Supports his militia amendment 188-9 Supports Joy's amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 26 — salai'y Judges Supreme Court 300 Supports open ch^ctions 98 ROTWITT, I.. Reports on sull'iage and iiiKiliticalions to hold oflico 75 Subiiiils rcpdil cm siiH'i;ii;c 67 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX xxiii i;i (;ek, general I'aj,"' Directs Convention to military reservations 48T-48S SAKi;KXT, V. K. Favors Burleigh substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suti'rage 3(i7-S Favors grand jury system llti-llT Favors Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — sutTrage 340 Objects to Sec. 5. payment of employees 213 Otters amendment to Preamble '•'" On corporation elections and regulations '. "-"- On legislation :..: ^*l On water tax question 506 OpiMjses Sec. 30—13111 of Right- : 142-3 Supports Hartman amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 334 Supports Marion amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage. 357-S Supports private armed forces 131 SCHiUDT, LEOPOLD Offers amendment to Preamble ''!• 1^3 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, jiroposition 14 — suffrage 4(i3 STAPLETON, G. W. Excused ^ l*Jil-^ Favors amendment to Sec. 17 — deposition of witnesses 2G0-(il Further opposes :Marion amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 354 o Moves to add a Clerk to -Judiciary Committee 33 Objects to Hartman 2nd division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage ^^^ Objects to increase in any committee 28 Objects to longliand transcript 58 Objects to 2nci division of substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage.... 386 Otfers amendment to Sec. 19, proposition 21. relating to County Attorney 323 On corporation elections and regulations 721 On corporation liability ! "0-^ On irrigation water rates and taxes .5.54.) On public water .....895-yU Opposes Collins amendment to See. 29, proposition 26 — saUiry of .Justices and Judges 298-'.) Opposes Hartman amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 344-0 Opposes new section to proposition 21 — divorces 32.5 Opposes ilarion substitute for Sec. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 3.55 Opi)oses striking out Pee. 17 — deposition of witnesses 260-61 Opposes striking out iliddieton motion lo subdivision 2 of Sec. 2, propo- sition 14 — persons convicted of crime not allowed to vote 361 Supports convict labo' 206 Supports Knowles militia amendment 102 Wants employees infovnied of pay situation 44 STEWART (of Nevada) On irrigation and mininu and money... 80.1-lli STULL. REV. MR. Offered prayer TAYIX)R. WILLIAil Resigns as Assistant Cliief Clerk. 18 TOOLE. .J. K. Accepts amendment to proposition 21. judiciary, to reconnnit to Judiciary Committee '*-'' Accepts amendment of Burleigh to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — pass- ing of laws by Legislature ........403-404 Accepts Burleigh amendment to vecomn:it proi)osition 21. on judiciary, to .Judiciary Committee 32S .\ccepts Dixon amendment to Rule 29 29 Believes Order of Business and Rules under one head 24 Defines rule regarding general file 6") Desires Piesident assign clerks as needed T 33-4 Explains action of Committee on Rule- 2() xxjv PERSU-NAl. RECUKL) I.NDEX 100LE, J. K.— Coiitimied Page Favors Collin;, aiiiondnicnt to Sec. 29, proposition 26 — salary of Justices and Judges 3U1 Favors foreign property owners 1"-S Moves to amend See. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — passing of laws by Legislature 403 Moves to recess ; 31-2 Moved to lecommit proposition 21, judiciary, to Judiciary Committee 32(! iloves that resolutions lie printed at once 30 Objects to increase in Committee on Apportionment and Representation.... 27 Oilers aniendniint to Sec. 1, pro]x)sition 11 — article on labor. Toole offers another amendment to same 239 Offers amcnilmcnt to Sec. 2. proposition 27 — revenue and taxation. Dis- cusses his amendment 482 Offers substitute for Sec. 2, as amended by amendments of Hartraan and Clark — suilrage — proposition 14. Toole discusses his substitute 395-396 Offers amendment to Sec. 13 — irrigation 148 Offers amendment to Sec. 1.5 — irrigation ^ 14S Offers amendment to Sec. 15 — criminal defense 160 Offers amendment to Sec. 16 — deposition of witnesses 167 Offers amendment to sulidivision 2 of Sec. 2, proposition 14 — persons con- victed of crime not allowed to vote 362-3 Offers subsection :t0— Hill of Rights 13't Offers amendment to Labor Bureau section 197. 19't Offers amendment to oath of office 594-95 Offers resolution on Conuuittee of Rules 23 Offers section on railroad passes 572 Offers resolution on tax exemption 49 On Convention proceedings 921 Cm corporation liability ■„ 701-2, 707-8 (hi custody of original Constitution 967 On deposition of witnesses ; 162. 161 On irrigation water rates and taxes .551-.52 On legislative apportionment .597-8-9 On length of legislative session.. 603 On limiting debates 489 On location of capital ■. 772,794,741-44 On Mexican ores 673-4 On mining claim taxation 494-495 On passage of legislation 619 On railroad ])asses 594 On representation 943-944 On sale of public lands (school) ■. 844-5-6,849 On senatorial representation 622-24, 640 On water rights and taxes 569-70 Opposes amendment to Sec. 17— Bill of Rights 255-257 Opposes amendment to convict labor 204-5 Opposes grand jury system ..114-115 0|)poses A\arren amendment to Sec. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — passing of laws by Legislature 401-402 0])ltoses proposition 1.5 — Bureau of Agriculture 216 Opposes Sec. 39, ])roposition 26 — trial of impeachments 716 (>)>]ioses to a ceitain extent, Bickford amendment, Sec. 2, proposition 14 — woman suifrage 456-457-45S Opposes Whitehill amendment to Sec. 15, proposition 26 — writs of error.... 29.) Points out that rules of Old Convention govern 24 Points to Rule 23 on printing of reports "1 Questions channels of resolution on Chief Stenographer 42-43 Re]X)rts from Connnittee on Legislati\e DepartmenLs on resolution 4, by Watson 419-420 Reports from Committee on Rules 25 Reports on pay of extra Clerks, and expenses 954-5 Reports proposition 13, on boundaries 18() Reports proposition 19, on legislative departments 133-137 Reports resolution limiting debate 488 Reports on resolution 12— suffrage 186 Re]iorts resolution 13, on appropriations , 186 Reports resolution 19. re. State Kxaminer 89-90 Requests rearrangement of seats in Convention 46 Requests addition of Green as .\ssistant Sergeant-at-Arms 26 PERSONAL RECORD INDEX xxv 'iOOLE, J. K.— Continued Page Submits report of Legislative Committee on Resolution 07 Speaks, and aceepts honor '■* Suggests postponing debate on See. 14 — Bill of Rights 124 Supports amendment to Sees. 13-15 — irrigation '*^I^ Supports original Sep. 13 — irrigation 150 Supports Collins resolution on pay of Chief Stenographer 40 Supports committee report on Preamble 95 Supports extra Clerk ipiestion .- _ ''|^ Supports longhand transcript '. 30"" Supports original fteamble 247-8 Withdraws his sutstitute Sec. 30 — Bill of Rights 140 TOOLE. 1. R. Discusses Sec. i. proposition 18 — seat of government 410-417 Excused :. "3,07 Favors proposition 21 be recommitted to Judiciary Committee 32i iloves election of extra officers "* Offers amendment to Bureau of Labor section R'O Offers amendment to convict labor section 199-200 Oti'ei-s amendment to Sec. 3. proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 478-4,9 Offers new section, to be i-alled Sec. 3. proposition 11 — convict labor 24.) Offers resolution for Committee on Labor _ 30 Offers resolution on resolutions 01-2 On location of capital 778,734-0,780-7,728 On County Commissioner Boaids 008-9 On corporation election and regulations ;i~^'" On irrigation of arid lands 079-80 On public water = ' 897, 900 On State institutions 803-4 On County Superintendent of Schools 092 Opposes amendment to Sec. 25,rights of persons of foreign birth — Bill of Rights ; 208 Opposes Burleigh amendment to Sec. 11, proposition 27 — revenue and taxa- tion ^"s-it'll Opposes iiartman amendment to See. 2, proposition 14 — suffrage 330-7 Opposes Loud substitute for Sees. 2 and 3, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation - ■*' '^ Opposes private armed forces : 129-30 Reports for Committee of the Whole .582^3 Reports on mines and water rights OiO Seconds nomination of Todd 15 Supports convict labor amendment 204 Supports Labor Bureau section 197 Supports eight-hour day 213-4 Supijorts his previous resolution to Sec. 2, proposition 11 — convict labor 242-3 Supjjorts his resolution on labor 30 Witlidraws amendment, convict labor , 209 ^\"ALKER, L. A. (Secretary of Territory) Calls Convention to order .luly 4, 1889 _ 13 WARREN. CHARLES S. Accepts amendment of Whitehill to Sec. 10, proposition 21 — person eligible to Judge of District Court 31 1 Discusses his amendment to See. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage — passing of laws bv Legislature 401 Excused '. 1 ;- *^ Favors Hammond amendment to Sec. 4. proposition 10 — salary of executive officers .; 446 Nominate substitute officers by a suitable resolution 21 Objects to "open" in open elections 98-99 Offers amendment to Sec. 1, proposition 27 — revenue and taxation 482 Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 18— seat of government 411-412 Offers amendment to See. 2, proposition 18. relative to seat of govern- ment 411-412 Offers amendment to Sec. 2. proposition 18 — seat of government 416 Offers amendment to Sec. 4, proposition 10 — salary of executive officers.... 447 Offers amendment to Sec. 10. proposition 14 — suffrage— passing of laws by Legislature 400-401 xxvi PERSONAL RECORD INDEX '>\AR1?EX. CHAS. S.— Continued Tayt- Ofl'ers amendnient to See. 13 on concealed weapons ll'J-20 UU'ers amendment to See. l(i, proposition 21 — jjerson eligible to Judge of District Court 315 Offers application of Blackwell to address Convention 78 Offers substitute to Preamble 184 On importation of ores 582 On Mexican ores ' <>'^ On senatorial representation ^ 034-5 On State institutions 8(10 Opposes Robinson amendment to Sec. 13, proposition 20 — judicial districts 205 Pi-esents memorial by Whitford .• 07 Reports on order of propositions in (institution 949-50 Supports amendment by ClarU to Sec. 2. proposition 14 — suffrage 357-59 Supjiorts private armed fi)rii's__ _ __ 129 .VATSON, W. H. Explains minority vibjections on Stenographer pay 53 Offers amendment to Sec. 11. proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote. He further amends amendment to same 407 Offers amendment to See. 11, proposition 14 — laws allowing women to vote *n^ Offers resolution on trusts 3(i Ofl'ers resolution on printing of laws 35 On railroad passes to public officers 542 Recalls amendments to Bill of Rights 179 Reports (minority) on printing _._ , 08 Submits minority report on printing...., Oj WEBSTER. CTIARLES M. Excused '^S. 212 WHITEHILL, H. R. Amends line 4. Sec. 9, Bill of Rigiils.. 25a Desires committee l^eamble ^-"■^ Excused 100 Favors Warren amendment to See. 10, proposition 14 — suffrage— passing of laws by Legislature '"^■^ Moves to amend amendment of Sec. 29, proposition 20 — salary of Judges of Supreme Court "" Offers amendment to siibstitute by Parberry for Sec. 13, proposition 20 — judicial districts 2^'* Ofi'ers amendment to Labor Bureau section 1'18 Offers amendment to Sec. 1, proposition 18 — State institutions and public buildings *' ' Ofl'ers amendment to Sec. 8. pro])osition 14 — who not allowed to vote 400 Offered amendment to Sec. 15, proposition 20 — writ of error 295 Offers amendment to See. 10, pioposition 21— person eligible to Judge of District Court •^'' Offers amendment to Sec. 19, |iropo.sition 10 — reports of executive officers 448 Offers amendment to Sec. 23, proposition 20— appeal from Justice tVnu'ts 290 Offers aendment to See. 25, right of persons of foreign birtfi — Bill of Rights 208 Offers amendment to Sec. 30, ])roiiosition 20 — Trial Judge 308 Offers resolution on adoption of part of Constitution of 1884 49-.50 Offers section, to be No. 38, proposition 20 — affidavit of Judge for salary.... 308 On corporation elections and regulations : 721-2 On Constitutional amendments ''53 On Countv Superintendent of Schools 091 On location of capita! 791-92. 740 On property rights of women '^**''Ii On religious tolerance 8i , On State institutions 807, 809-70 Opposes amendment to See. 25, rights of foreign born persons — Bill of Rights 209 Opposes Blackwell address question '!J Opposes Burleigh substitute for Sec. 2, proposiition 14 — woman suffrage.. ..305-(i Opposes Collins amendment to Sec. 29, proposition 20 — salary of Justices and Judges 303-4 Oipposes convict labor .- 20.) ti PERSON.\L RECORD INDEX xxvii WHITEHII.L. H. R.— Continued Page Opposes Herslilield anu'nilnient to Set. 111. proposition 10 — power of Board of Kxa miners and (jovernor 437-438 Supports grand jury system 108-109 Supports substitute of Collins for Sec. 13, proposition 26 — ^judicial dis- tricts : 276-7!) Supports his amendment to Sec. 15, proposition 26 — writs of error 295 Supports his amendment to Sec. 23. prnposilion 26 — appeal from Justice •lourts 296 Supports Winston amendment to Sec. 8, proposition 21, relating to Chief Justice 312-3 WIXSTOX, G. B. Offers amendment to Sec. 2, proposition 10 — election of executive officers.. 423-424 ■ Offers amendment to Sec. 8, proposition 21, on judiciary, relating to Chief Justice ; 312 Offers amendment to Sec. lO^Bill of Rights 118 Offers amendment to Sec. 11. jiroposition ^10 — bills passed by Legislature. Winston sujiports his aniendments 433 On effective dates for laws and introduction of bills to Legislature 606 On legislative vacancies 613 Chi passage of bills in Legislature 608 On passage of legislation 620 WITTER. A. C. Moves to amend amendment in line 4, Sec. 9 — Bill of Rights 232 Offers proposition on State institutions 859 On sale of public lands (school) 844-847 On St;ite institutions ' 859-60 Opposes substitute for See. 2. proposition 11 — convict labor 244 Requests permission for filing minority report on labor 66 Supports amendment to Sec. IG. proposition 21 — judicial power 225 GENERAL INDEX Page Absence of Judge to work forfeiture 3u.S Action, Xot abated by admission of State 78(i, 911 Limitation not affected by admission of State, 783, 90ri Pending on admission of State 785, 005, 906 Address of acceptance by Clark 21 Address of acceptance by Toole 14, 15 Admission of State, Action pending on 785, 905-6 Administration; Examiner to examine and report 013, (il4 Trust funds invested — limitations 611 Agriculture and Commerce bureau recommended 75 Agriculture Committee, report on Resolution 3 52 Agriculture. Prop. 15 referred to Convention 216 Alexander. Samuel, temporary Sergeant-at-Arms 15 A-ppeal. Writs of Error and, amendment and debate 295-6 .Appointive power of Governor - 428 Apportionment and Representation: Conuuittee Report - 913 Committee on. increased 27 Apportionment — number of representatives 600-1 .Appropriations: By Legislatures 00 Funds, for illegal uses ■- 480, 510 Regulations 134 Resolution reported back 170 Resolution 13 reported by Committee 180 Limitation on Assembly 382 To be approved by Governor „ 43t State purposes only _ Oil Paid how and when 01 1 -\rid Land, report by Irrigation Committee 137 Armed Forces: Sec. .30 (Bill of Rights) debate 139,147 "Bill of Rights" debate ..^ 129, 131 Sub. Sec. .30 offered 139 "Bill of Rights" final passage 270 .-Vssembling hours of 90-97 Assemblv and petition for redress, "Bill of Rights," final passage 270 Bail by' Surety: "Bill of rights" 125 "Bill of Rights." final passage.. 203 Bills api)roved or vetoed by Governor, amendments and debate 433 Bill of Rights, amendments and debates 96, 131, 139. 14S Amendments reported by Committee of AVhole l**! Committee report referred to Printing Committee 47 Pi'op. 1, amendments and debate on final passage 250, 27! Blacklisting. Resolution referred 01 Res 330-375 •Bill of Rights" .• ns-ll!) Kk'ction, C'liief Clerk, Todd as temporary 15 Constitutional ratification, ordinance and officers 873-876, 870-891 Days, Military duty on 4(K) General Resolution referred 90 (General resolution reported by Committee 272 Legislature, First State 912 Laws to be fair and pure 400-404 Majority vote to elect 4(i5 Officers of Executive Department 423-424 Open, "Bill of Rights," final passage 230 Permanent officers 19-20 Permanent President 19-20 Temporary president (Jos. K. Toole) 14 School, women to vote at .• 463-5 Stenographer temporary I" Electors, qualifications of, 448-403 Arrest at polls, privileged from : 400 Oiminals are not 400 Government service not to disqualify 400 Idiots are not 400 Qualifications, discussion 330-375 Qualifications of, for county elections 658-9 Qiuilifications of, substitute amendment and delate 384-392, 394-400 F.niployees, blacklisting 215-6 Convention 11-12 Convention, discharge of il Election of additional 25 Employment and pay of Legislative lilO Necessity for, debate 71-74 Objections by members to assignment of 33-4 Payment of 213 Resolution for additional • 23-4 Stenographers pay for copy of proceedings 36-45 Sergeant-at-Amis, assistant, salary fixed 41 Enabling Act .i-10 Equality of man. "Bill of Rights" ; 98 Equalization boards and duties ''S:! J'ersonnel and duties 480 Examiners' Board, composed of and duties Amendment and Debate 43t')-440 Executive Committee report ''4 Executive Departments, in Committee of Whole 423-440 Pi-oposition 10, on final passage 441-448 To consist of whom - ^: ...— 423 Qualifications of officers of 424 Executives, Monies received and disbursed, to account for 435-436 Officer.?, term of office '. 917-20 Power vested in Governor ' 428 Salaries of 424-27 Under jurisdiction of Governor 431 Exempted properties enumerated, amendment and debate....470-479; 481-487; 490-492 Ex Post Facto law, "Bill of Rights" final passage .• 253 •'Bill of Rights" debate 119 Extraordinary sessions of Legislature to be called by Govei-nor 433 Federal relation ordinance •;.--'^~""'^ Fees probate ju43 Public indebtedness 643-4 GENERAL INDEX xxxiii Pago Public funds liniiteil to public activities 643 State funds not used for county or city debt U43 Fire prevention legislation 537-538; 587-589 Kire prevention, public lands "45 First Ijcgislative Assembly, election of 912 Floor privileges granted Supreme Court and Convention of 1884 32 Foreign corporations, requirements and limitations ; 580 Foreign propertv owners 'Bill of Pviglits," final passage 2U8-270 •■Bill of Rights.'' debate ._ 12U-128 Freedom of action "Bill of Rights'' 1"^8 Freedom of Speech "Bill of Uiglils," Amendment and debate : 118-11'J Free Speech "Bill of Rights," final passage 253 Funds, disbursement of to be accoimted for. debate 435-ii Gambling, i)rohibited in Resolution _ 7G l*ioposition Xo. It! reported by Committee 233 Restricted by Resolution 76 General Election Resolution reported by Committee 272 General rights of people "Bill of Rights" final passage 270 Great Falls invites Convention to bancpiet 45 Gla.sgou. New County valuation, petition from 272 (Jovernment. bv people "Bill of Rights" 250 by people '"Bill of Rights" ! 96-97 Committee of seven on county, city and town 27 Propert}- exempt from taxation 381-382 Lands, memorial to Congress on 62 Service not to disqualify voters ' 400 Governor, appointive powers 428 Appropriations, to approve 434 -Approve or veto bills, power to, Amendment and debate 433 Commander in Chief of ililitia 42S Executive power vested in 428 Incapacity of, succeeded by Lieutenant Governor 434 •Joint orders and resolutions of Legislature 612 Legislature, may convene 433 Pardon, duty after granting, amendment and debate 429-431 Pardon, power to. amendment and debate 429-431 Progression to chair of, 434 Supervisorv power over executives 431-"2 Salery, debate 442-4 43 Veto power over joint Resolutions, etc. 612 Grand jury "Bill of Rights" Amendment and debates 99-118 System "Bill of Eights" final passage 251-2.53 Great Seal of Montana, custody in Secretary of State 4.34 Habeas Corpus rights "Bill of Rights" 12--> Writ "Bill of Rights" final passage .^ '263 Helena .Journal excluded from floor privileges 739-741; 801-802 Husband and wife, property rights 575 Property rights of 645-6 Homestead laws, legislation 533 Authorized ■ ■ 645 Hours for assembling, discussion 50 Idaho congratulates Montana on progress 802 Idiot not entitled to vote 400 Indebtedness, counties, taken by State 13S Limit, requested by Harris and Company, Chicago 64 Water supply allowable 273 Industrial Accident, liability of corporations 581 Impeachment. State Officers ..134-5 •Judges and State Officers .^ ,. 308-9 Importation of lead ore, memorandum to President of U. S 582 Imprisonment, witnesses, "Bill of Rights" 124-125 Indian Lands not taxed 878, 922 Ordinance referred 48 Indian reservations, jurisdiction 533, 628 Resolutions reported 627 Interstate Commerce Commission provides for 700 Institutions located in various counties 859-864-866-871 Invitation of II. E. Church to attend temperance lecture 31 Involuntarv servitude "Bill of Rights" 123 xxxiv GENERAL INDEX Iirigation and Jlining, Stewart, U. S. Senator on 803-81(1 Irrigation and Money systems, Reagan U. S. Senator on 816-20 Irrigation and water rates 550-571 Irrigation, canals taxation debate 497-513 Major Powell, Director U. S. G. O. on, 820-824 Jlontana civil engineers, present question 41S Petition by S. of C. E. reported adversely 488 Piojects regulated 1559-8) Proposition referred •" Resolution offered and referred 138-139 Irrigation Committee, added to standing Committees 33 Appointed "Ij Xuniber on 52 Report on Memorial 8135 Report on Proposition 8 137 Report on Proposition 20 , 370 Of U. S. discuss National problems 803-82U Jefferson, suggested as name of State 174, 176 Judge, absence of. to work forfeiture 308 "Cooley" of Miebigan visits Convention 177 Presiding, may be a, substitute 307-S Salary and mileage, Amendment and debate 296-307 Judgment of territorial court executed by State 784-904 Judicial Departments, Law Departments '. 151-1.55 pardoning power 155 Proposition 21, Amendment and debate 218-231 Judicial districts, debate 276^ 294 Amendment 377-379 Judicial officers, vacancies in. filled how 307 Judiciary Article, Amendment and debate and final passage 276-329 Judiciary Committee, report refeired 150 Report Proposition 21 and final passage •. 377-382 Requests special clerk 33 Jury Commissioners, clerks of District Court as, 784, 904 Jury, trial. Bill of Rights, Amendment and final passage 264-68 " Trial bv, "Bill of Rights" 125 Trial by, 157-160 Justice, courts of, in Bill of Rights 99 Through Courts "Bill of Rights" final jassage 2.50 Justices of S\ipreme Coin-t, Salary amendment 377-380 Labor bureau, amendment and debate 196-8 Proposition 11. amendment and final passage 238-40 Labor. Chinese, referred 60-61 Chinese. Proposition 7, report by Committee and referred ; 214-215 Chinese, habitation restrictions ; 698-9 Committee. Resolution adopted 1 30 Recommended bureau of labor 65 Contract, proposition reported by Committee 17J4-<).J For public officers 535-37 For public officers 044 To recently arrived members : 18 Occupations, taxation of , 00 Office Holders, qualifications of 408-9 Office, terms of Public, resolution divided 00 Qualifications, proposition 14, suffrage and, 329-375 (Qualifications to hold 400 Officers, compensation of county and city, fixed for term 042 County, resolution regarding 35 Of the convention, election of. 19-20 Other than Constitution, election of •i-l') Peace, resolution 10 re-referred 00 Salary increase of 7(i Territorial, granted floor privileges 32 Term of office for certain 578-79 Of U. S. not eligible for State office 575-577 Of U. S. not to hold state office 275 Offices of U. S. and Stale cannot be held at same time 488 Oiganization, of the convention, temporary 13 Ore importation memorial, 915 Recommitted 903 From Mexico 671-675 Ordinances Committee report 027-8 Payment of employees. Section amendment and debate 213 Pardon board procedure, amendnu'nt and debate 429-431 Pardons, Governors duty after granting 429-31 GENERAL IXDEX xxxvii Page Powers vested in Lioveinor, anifiuliiient and debate.. ...420-431 Passes, "Free, resolution referred 48-!) Free, resolution 10 reported by Committee 233 From Railway amendments and debate 582-5, 589, 592-94 From Railways prohibited .- ---^ ^5 From triuisportation companies prohibited 539-550, 572-575 Penal and reformatory Institutions 132 Perpetuities, limitation of - - - _ ^^ Personal property, taxation rate on 4J9, 517-8 Petition redress "Bill oi Rights"' 128 Photographer invites Convention to sit for pictures 80 Plumb — r. S. Senator on Xational Resources 824-826 Police protection, resolution referred 'j' Resolution reported by Judiciary Committee '4 Poor Farms - 1^2 Preamble, amendments and debates 90-96 Committee report referred to Printing Committee 47 Committee report amendments 177-179 Proposition 1. amendment and debate 246-50 Resolution 1 and 2 on. reported by Committee : 64 Resolutions submitted 32 Read and amended before final passage 183-184 Presiding Judge may be a substitute 307-8 "President of Senate, incapacity makes Speaker of the House Governor 434 Piesident temporar.v, of the Convention, Xominations for 13 Election of - I'* Press representatives given privilege of floor 16 Printing Committee, minority report on publication of General Laws 68 Report on resolution 7 stenographer pa.v 52 Reports, debate 68-71 Requests mileage statements to be submitted 34 Private property "Bill of Rights" amendment and debate 120-124-14S Final passage 253 Not to be sold for corporate debts 479, 513-514 Prison Commission eouiposeil of and duties, amendment and debate 436-440 Prisoner awaiting trial not entitled to vote 46 15 agriculture referred to Convention 21U 10 gambling re|)orted by Committee 233 17 on education reported 88 17 education reported by I'linting Committee 177 18, 19, 21 and 22 reported by printing committee 184 19 on Legislative department report 133-137 20 reported by Committee on Irrigation 370 21 Judiciary article, final passage 270-329 21 reported by judiciary committee and final passage....: 377-382 21 judicial departments, amendment and debate .'. 218-231 27 Revenvie and Taxation Final passage 467-482-4;K)-51!) Public Lands, classification 028-29 Committee report 240 Preference to settlers 645 Lea.se or sale of ...628-29 Prior rights 539 Sold on certain conditions _ : 828-839-841, 842-8.55 Public Moneys, felonious use of , 383 Publication of general laws resolution referred 35 Public office not to be filled by U. S. Officer 275 l^iblic Schools, established and maintained _ 520 F'ree and non-sectarian : 628 Ordinance referred 48 Regulation governing age of students 52') Qualifications, of electors amendment and debate 394-400 Sub-amendment and debate 384-392 For County elections 658-9 On final passage amendment and debate 448-403 Office holders 400 Of electors, on final passage amendment and debate 448-463 Office holders 408-9 State officers 407 Executive department, officers of 424 Railroad, assessments equalized 383 Combines prohibited 580 Stock issued for actual value 580 Traffic to be non-discriminatory 580 Definition and privileges 580 In cities controlled by authorities 580-1 Not to receive retrospective benefits 581 Not to receive public aid 611 Subject to public use 580 Tax apportionment of, 480 To file acceptance of constitution 580 Railway, franchise necessary in cities and towns 711 Common carriers 700 Consolil passage , ...^ 250 Ueligious Freedom, 67C-87S Tolerated 9^2 Religous property exempt from taxation 381i-382 Religious tolerance, "-^ Ch'dinance referred ^ 48 Reports, Printing of Committee 68-71 Representation and Apportionment, committee on, Increased, 27 Representative districts, may be changed 913 Enumerated •*''* Representatives, qualification 133 In Congress — election of •■ 913 Resolutions 1 and 2 on Preamble reported by Committee 64 3, Irrigation Committee "2 4, reported adversely .« ■■■ 'i-O 6, minority report by Committee on City, County and town organization 274 (i, reported by Committee on City, County and Town 274 7, referred to special committee " 7, Stenographer, pay reported by select committee 233-8 7, stenographer pay - 52 8, school lands ^' 5, reported by public land committee.. 75 9, New Counties : . ^° 9, reported by County, Town and City organization Committee 75 10, PVee passes 48"9 10, passes reported by committee 233 11, tax exemption '*9 12, suffrage '^2 12, reported by Committee on Suffrage ._ 67 12, reported — suffrage 170-171 12, suffrage reported by Committee 186 13, Constitution of 1884 49 13, appropriation by legislature 60 13, reported by Committee on I>egislative Departments 67 13, reported back adversely l"fj 13, appropriations reported by Committee 186 14, New Counties ''O 15, taxation of profession 60 16, police protection *•! 16, re-referred 66 16, reported by Judiciary Committee ' 74 17, Blacklisting reported by Committee 176 17, Blacklisting '. 61 18,- reported by County. Town and City Organizations Committee 74 19, on State Examiner reported by Committee 90 27, on public office holding reported by committee 488 28, on jurisdiction over military lands 488 Convention employees 71 Corporations and Railroads .•. - 76 County indebtedness , 138 Elections referred ; 90 Gambling in saloons restricted - 76 Gambling prohibition of '6 Preamble 3- Irrigation refeiTed to Committee 139 Liquor dealers, limitation of, -•. , 76 General laws, publication of 35 Salary increase of officials 76 Resources, National, U. S. Senator Plumb on, 824-826 Revenue and Taxation, report on by Finance Committee 381-383 Reconsidered 550-571 Revenue and Taxation 675-681 Revision and phraseology of constitutional measures 839-841 Rights of People "Bill' of Rights", 129 Final passage '-^" Right of way over private property 376 Roads for private use "Bill of Rights" final passage ._ 254 Rule amending resolution passed reporting of certain committees 51 Rules amendments offered and referred 193 xl GEMERAL I.NDEX Page Proposed 714 Rules, Committee on, 23 Committee report adopted with amendments 30 Committee resolution on 51 Constitutional resolutions, being read at length 29 Report of Committee on. received and read. 25-6 Report amended 27 Report submitted 65 Sabbath observance, requested by M. E. Church 47 Union memorial referred 233 Seal of Territory assumed by State 780-912 Salary, Governor, debate 442-3 Judges and mileage amendment and debate 296-307 Judges, time limit to cases affecting, 308 Justices of the Supreme Court 377-80 Not changed during term ;. 610-11 Of Legislators [. : 601-3 Of officials changed when 76 Of State executives 424-^27 Schedule article reported 784 School district officers, special election of 529-30 School Districts, debt for cities, towns and 894 School funds, augmented by legislature • 529 Cannot be used for sectarian purposes 529 Interest and rent apportioned 528-29 Investment of 528 Section 2 to consi-st of ,..., 520 School elections, women to vote at 463-5 School lands, controlled by land Board 528-29 Lease or sale of 628 Pieference to residents 528-29 Resolution 8 47 Resolution referred to Committee on public lands 47 Resolution 8, rcjiorted by Committee _ _ 75 Sale or lease of, amendment and debate .i20-528, 589-592 Schools, non-sectarian 529 Public, education committee report on 88 Public, established and maintained 520 Purposes, taxes for 478 Svstem for all children 878 Tax rate -...: 382 Senatorial apportionment 622-26, 629-41, 913 Senatorial representation 651 -5.> Senatorial districts enumerated 913 Seating of members of Convention 23 Seats of members rearranged 46 Seal of State to be used on certain papers 434 Seal of State in custody of Secretary of State 434 Search and Seizure •'Bill" of Rights"..:.". 09 Search Warrants "Bill of Rights" final passage „ 250 Secretary of State, Custody of the Great Seal 434 Sergeant at -Arms, temporary, election of, 15 Soldier or Sailor not resident 400 South Dakota sends congratulations 19 Slaverv prohibited "Bill of Rights" final passage 270 Speech, Freedom of. Bill of Rights 118-119 Special committee to consider resolution 7 90 State Examiner, resolution referred 66 State Examiner, resolution reported -. 90 Appointed by Governor -I-"^ State Institutions, Committee report „132-1.'W To be established *11 State Officers, (pialifications of ■. 40" State Senators, election , 133 State Treasurer reports moneys on hand .-.. 383 Stenographer, assigned to extra duty 62 Election of _ 1" Given additional time on transcript 921 Pay for copy of ])roceedingR 36-45 GENERAL INDEX xli Page Pay, debate and roll call 52-60 Pay, resolution 7 reported by Committee, debate 233-8 Salary resolution 7 referred to special committee 77 Stewart, "U. S. Senator on inijration and mining 803-816 Stockholders, liability of corporate 701-714 Students, regulation governing age of 529 Succession of office resolution divided 66 Suffrage and qualifications final passage, amendment and debate 448-467 Suffrage committee, report on nualifications 75 Report on resolution 12 67 Suffrage, memorial from !Madison County 74 Petition presented by Joy 64 Proposition in Committee of Whole 329-373 Pioposition 14. and office qualifications, ^ 329-375 Pioposition 14 and resolution 12 reported and deferred 419-420 Resolution referred 'tS Resolution reported 170-173 Resolution 12 reported by committee « 186 Speech by Blackwell disputed 78-80 Speech by Blackwell on woman's 80-88 Women's" 915-16 Woman's, Committee report 855-6 Woman's, limited 404-8 Woman's resolution refened to committee 490 Supreme Court Justices, amendment 371-8 Salaiy, amendment 377-SO Supreme Court officers — regulations 307 Sunday law petition reported and tabled 383-384 Sunday observance petition from Deer Lodge 271 Taylor, WiUiam. resigns as Assistant Chief Clerk 77 Tax apportionment of railroads 480 Tax exempt properties, amendment and debate 470-479-481-487-490, 492 Tax exemption, resolution refened 49 Tax Laws, Legislative power to pass 481 Tax, license on persons and corporations, 381-82 Money, disposition of 479, 514-516 Rate on Mining property 382 Rate on mining property and water rights 472-9, 492-513 Rate for school purposes 382 Rales to be adjusted by legislature amendment and debate 4G7-470, 482-483 Taxation and Revenue proposition 27, final passage 467-482, 490-519 Taxation and Revenue reconsidered 550-571 Taxation of corporations to be perpetual 479 Taxation, due territory assigned to State 785-911 Indian lands exempt , 878 Indian lands, exempt 922 Irrigation, canals, debate 497-513 JIaintenance of State By 381-82 Power continuous 382 Powers invested in corporate authorities 382 Of professions on occupations 60 Rate limitation on personal property 382 Rate on personal property 479, 517-8 Rates must be uniform 479-80 Report by Finance Committee 381-83 Religious property exempt from 381-82 Taxes, on City, County and Town for their use, assessed by themselves 478 Educational property exempt from 381-82 Expended how ." 479-80 Government property exempt from 381-82 Paid to whom 382-83 For State are compulsory 478 For school purposes 478 Telephone and Telegraph corporations, regulations and restrictions 581 Telephone and Telegraph privileges and restrictions 711 Temperance Lecture. Invitation of M. E. Church ._.. 31 Temporary organization 13 Term of office for certain officers 578-79 Term of office. Countv Officers 695-697 xlii GENERAL LNDEX Page Of Legislators 597 Succession 539 Testimony by criminal, "Bill of Rights" 124-125 Testimony of Criminal, "Bill of Eights," final passage 262-63 Tenitorial debts transferred to State 628 Territorial officers, granted floor privileges 32 Time limit to cases affecting judges' salary 308 Todd, Wm. H., temporary Clerk, Elected 15 Town, City and County Government Committee limited to seven 27 Treason against the State, "Bill of Rights" 118 Treason defined, "Bill of Riglits," final passage 253 Treasurer's report, to embrace what 479-80 Treatment of Pinsoners, "Bill of Rights" 125 Trial by Jury, "Bill of Rights" 125 Trial by Jury. "Bill of Rights," and witnesses amendment and debate 157-166 Amendment and final passage 264-6S Trusts and monopolies, question referred 36 Trusts, corporations forbidden and penalty _ 713 United States Constitution adopted "22 United States Courts, succeed to certain pending territorial cases 786, 911 United States official not to hold public office 275 University and State Educational Institution funds invested and used how.... 530 University and State educational institutions controlled by Board of Educa- tion " 530 Vacancies in judicial offices, filled how 307 Vahuition rerpiircd for new counties 660-664 Veto, Governor's power to 433 Washington, State of, sends congratulations 19 Water for public use, amendment offered 148-149 Amendment and debate > 156 "Bill of Rights" final passage .». 253-4 Water, may be appropriated 376 Rates and irrigation 550-571 Rates controlled by assembly 376 Rates, prior rights 533 Rights and rentals 675-Sl Rights are public property _ 895-902 Rights taxation cpiestion 472-9, 497-513 Of streams, public property 376 Sujjply resolution offered by Maginnis _ 274-5 Supply, municipal debt for 642 Weapons fur defense "Bill of Rights" l'-9 Final passage 253 Witnesses, disposition of Bill of Rights, final passage 254-62 Imprisonment of Bill of Rights ..., 124-5 Woman's suffrage 915-916 Committee report 8.55-856 Resolution referred to Committee -490 Speech by Blaekwell 80-88 Limited .;. 404-408 Women, to vote at school elections amendments and debate 4<)3-5 Property rights of 585-7 Writs of Error and appeal, amendment and debate 29o-'296 1